Manitoba Hansard — 6 December 2023 (Sitting 13, 43rd Legislature, 1st Session)

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Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

First Session – Forty-Third Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Tom Lindsey Speaker Vol. LXXVIII No. 13 - 1:30 p.m., Wednesday, December 6, 2023 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Third Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALTOMARE, Nello, Hon. Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma, Hon. Union Station NDP BALCAEN, Wayne Brandon West PC BEREZA, Jeff Portage la Prairie PC BLASHKO, Tyler Lagimodière NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian, Hon. Keewatinook NDP BYRAM, Jodie Agassiz PC CABLE, Renée, Hon. Southdale NDP CHEN, Jennifer Fort Richmond NDP COOK, Kathleen Roblin PC CROSS, Billie Seine River NDP DELA CRUZ, Jelynn Radisson NDP DEVGAN, JD McPhillips NDP EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FONTAINE, Nahanni, Hon. St.

Johns NDP GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC HIEBERT, Carrie Morden-Winkler PC JACKSON, Grant Spruce Woods PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake-Gimli PC KENNEDY, Nellie Assiniboia NDP KHAN, Obby Fort Whyte PC KINEW, Wab, Hon. Fort Rouge NDP KING, Trevor Lakeside PC KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Dauphin NDP LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom, Hon. Flin Flon NDP LOISELLE, Robert St. Boniface NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya, Hon. Notre Dame NDP MOROZ, Mike River Heights NDP MOSES, Jamie, Hon. St.

Vital NDP MOYES, Mike Riel NDP NARTH, Konrad La Vérendrye PC NAYLOR, Lisa, Hon. Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC OXENHAM, Logan Kirkfield Park NDP PANKRATZ, David Waverley NDP PERCHOTTE, Richard Selkirk PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Turtle Mountain PC REDHEAD, Eric Thompson NDP SALA, Adrien, Hon. St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHMIDT, Tracy, Hon. Rossmere NDP SCHOTT, Rachelle Kildonan-River East NDP SCHULER, Ron Springfield-Ritchot PC SIMARD, Glen, Hon. Brandon East NDP SMITH, Bernadette, Hon.

Point Douglas NDP STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo PC STONE, Lauren Midland PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry NDP WHARTON, Jeff Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt, Hon. Concordia NDP WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC

403 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, December 6, 2023 The House met at 1:30 p.m. The Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom, and know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and the welfare of all our people. Amen.

We acknowledge we are gathered on Treaty 1 territory and that Manitoba is located on the treaty territories and ancestral lands of the Anishinaabeg, Anishininewuk, Dakota Oyate, Denesuline and Nehethowuk nations. We acknowledge Manitoba is located on the Homeland of the Red River Métis. We acknowledge northern Manitoba includes lands that were and are the ancestral lands of the Inuit. We respect the spirit and intent of treaties and treaty making and remain committed to working in partnership with First Nations, Inuit and Métis people in the spirit of truth, reconciliation and collaboration. Please be seated.

The honourable member from Tyndall Park. MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): I rise on a point of order. Point of Order The Speaker: On a point of order, the hon ourable member for Tyndall Park. MLA Lamoureux: I'm very happy to rise on this point of order. At the holiday party open house over the weekend in my office, we had a contest. People were able to bid on a large jar of chocolates. The winner of this large jar of chocolates was Jamie Wallwin, and he specific- ally requested that I share these chocolates with my MLA colleagues here in the House–just in reference, if you see the chocolates on your desk.

And note from the Speaker, remember, we're not allowed to eat them in the Chambers. Thank you, Honourable Speaker. The Speaker: The Hon ourable Op position House Leader, on the same point of order. Mr. Derek Johnson (Official Opposition House Leader): On the point of order. The Speaker: The honour able Op position House Leader. Mr. Johnson: Thank you, Jamie. The Speaker: I would just like to point out that that is not a point of order. However, we appre ciate the spirit that it was given in, and please pass our thanks on to the winner of the contest that you had, Jamie.

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 201–The Manitoba Emblems Amendment Act (Provincial Stone) Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): I move, seconded by the MLA for La Vérendrye, that Bill 201, The Manitoba Emblems Amendment Act (Provincial Stone); Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les emblèmes du Manitoba (désignation de la pierre provinciale), be now read a second time and referred to a committee of this House. [interjection] Or, first time. [interjection] I know literacy, it 's–I got it. It 's good. It 's okay. [interjection] Thank you, we'll be redoing that. All right. Okay. Try that again. Take two. [interjection] The Speaker: The hon ourable member from Lac du Bonnet. Mr. Ewasko: I move, seconded by the MLA for La Vérendrye, that Bill 201, The Manitoba Emblems Amendment Act (Provincial Stone); Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les emblèmes du Manitoba (désignation de la pierre provinciale), be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Ewasko: This morning it gives me great pleasure to bring forward Bill 201, which we will be debating in the House tomorrow morning. The Manitoba Emblems Act as to amend –to designate the mottled dolomitic limestone quarried near Garson and Tyndal l as the official stone of Manitoba, which is more known as Tyndall stone, specifically. And as we sit in this wonderful building

404 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 6, 2023 called the Manitoba Legislature, it is absolutely made by the incredible stone called Tyndall stone. I look forward to the debate tomorrow morning and unanimous consent moving the bill forward to committee. Thank you, Mr. Honourable Speaker. The Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Committee reports? TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Adrien Sala (Minister responsible for the Manitoba public service): Honourable Speaker, it is my pleasure to rise today to table the Public Service Group Insurance Fund: Benefits

Summary, Auditor's Report and Financial Statements for the year ended April 30, 2023. MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS The Speaker: The honourable Minister of Families. Required notice –90 minutes ' notice was provided according to rule 27-2. National Day of Remembrance and Action on Violence against Women Hon. Nahanni Fontaine (Minister responsible for Gender Equity): December 6 is the Day of Remem- brance and Action on Violence Against Women, a day we acknowl edge Manitoba women we 've lost to violence. I honour two of our Indigenous sisters killed on November 26: Crystal Beardy and Stephanie Beardy of Lake St.

Martin First Nation. My deepest condolences to their children, families and community. December 6 remains a significant date for Canada; a day we recall the absolute horror that unfolded in Montreal at École polytechnique. On December 6, 1989, a man armed with a semi-automatic rifle and a hunting knife walked into a mechanical engineering classroom and instructed the male students to leave. He then methodically shot nine women in the room. He proceeded into the hallways and another classroom where he continued to stalk and target women.

When he was done, he murdered 14 women, alongside injuring 14 other individuals. * (13:40) I was living in Montreal at the time and remember watching the around- the-clock coverage of the massacre. The whole of Montreal was in shock and in mourning. It was devastating and incredibly scary for women across Canada. The École polytechnique massacre was

an act of misogyny. The shooter claimed that he was fighting feminism. At the time, society struggled to accept this act as

an act of misogyny. Acts of misogyny continue today. Earlier this year, a man entered a University of Waterloo class, specific ally, a gender -studies class, and stabbed two students and the female instructor. As a result, so me universities now won' t advertise the room numbers for these classes or have moved these classes online entirely. The accused is also charged with mischief for damaging a Pride flag. We have seen the federal Conservative leader court very dangerous ince l members online by using the hashtag #MGTOW. This group blames women for everything, including their lack of sex.

Canada's own security intelligence service has identified this violent misogyny as a form of ideological extremism. On November 28th of this year, a man in Ontario received a life sentence for an incel -inspired murder of 24-year-old Ashley Arzaga. The judge also ruled this as

an act of terrorism. Other forms of misogyny include using the murders of Indigenous women as political props to win a provincial election; calling the survivors of Peter Nygård –a convicted sexual predator –gold diggers; paying Canadian surgeons less for pro- cedures that they perform on women, while paying more for surgeries performed on men; or how current studies show one in five men in Canada believe feminism is harmful; or constantly asking women to explain or pay for the actions of men.

Finally, it's important to note, research supports the link of misogyny to white supremacy, racism, anti-2SLGBTQIA rhetoric, online hate and other forms of gender-based violence. I encourage Manitobans to continue to honour the victims of December 6, and to unapologetically call out and resist all forms of misogyny. I ask leave of the House for a moment of silence once all the statements have been read. Miigwech. The Speaker: Is there leave for a moment of silence once all members have spoken on this? [Agreed]

December 6, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 405 Mrs. Lauren Stone (Midland): Honourable Speaker, I rise today to mark the national day of remembrance of violence against women. Today, we remember the senseless tragedy that took place 34 years ago in Montreal, where 14 women were killed simply for their gender. Their lives were full of hope and potential and were cut short because of one man 's hatred against women. This wa s the second deadliest of mass shootings in Canadian history.

For all Canadians, including those not born yet, for babies like myself, the national day of remem - brance serves as a reminder that those young women whose lives were lost tragically. And while it is a difficult reminder, we must pause and reflect to ensure that we take action to stop violence from ever taking place again. The Montreal Massacre was clearly an attack on women. The murderer deliberately separated women from men. This time in hist ory has inspired new dialogue with all Canadians.

Today, it's vital that we acknowledge, reflect that gender-based violence still exists in our communities, our province, our country and around the world. I believe that this is a non -partisan issue as w e continue to see women targeted every day. I believe that we as legislatures have a shared responsibility to help end violence against women and girls by working together on awareness, prevention and combatting hate and misogyny. Violence against women is sadly more prevalent than people realize. Often, we go about our daily lives not knowing the trauma and tragedies that are experienced by so many.

Oftentimes, violence against women is happening within their own homes, and this is why its important to re cognize the impacts of domestic violence and empowering survivors. It was not okay 34 years ago, it was not okay 20 years ago and it was not okay last week. Even the smallest actions by each and every one of us can make meaningful change. Speaking out against acts of hatred, violence or harassment of any kind, and teaching our children to be kind, respectful and compassionate.

Honourable Speaker, by taking action, we will remember the women who lost their lives in the 1989 Montreal Massacre, and the women in our province who have experienced and continue to experience gender-based violence. So let us stand on all sides of this House and ensure women and girls are protected in our province. Thank you, Honourable Speaker. MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): I ask for leave to respond to the minister's statement. The Speaker: Does the member have leave? [Agreed] MLA Lamoureux: Honourable Speaker, 34 years ago, there was a horrific act of gender-based violence at École polytechnique.

On this day, a gunman walked into a classroom, separated the women from all the men and proceeded to shoot all the women. Thirteen students in their 20s and 30s and one administrator died that day because they were women. This is why we take time today. It is an oppor - tunity to build awareness and to rededicate ourselves to ending gender-based violence. Honourable Speaker, these women who were shot had families. They had friends. They had built their own lives, and that is why on this day, from coast to coast to coast, tears are shed, candles are lit and roses are laid in remembrance.

Honourable Speaker, I want to recognize those who have done such important work in honouring and supporting victims and survivors. There is much to be inspired by but much more that still needs to change. In closing, Honourable Speaker, on this day 34 years ago, 14 women died simply because they were women. Thank you for the opportunity to share a few words. And I'd like to table the names of all the women who are–we are speaking about here today. The Speaker: Is there leave for a moment of silence? [Agreed] All rise, please. A moment of silence was observed.

Introduction of Guests The Speaker: Before we move on to members ' statements, I'd like to draw all members ' attention to the gallery, where we have 50 grade 9 students from Neelin High school under the direction of Amy Lee. The school is located in the constituency of the hon- ourable member for Brandon East, the honour able Minister of Sport, Culture, Heritage and Tourism (Mr. Simard). Welcome.

406 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 6, 2023 I would also like to draw members ' attention to the loge on my right, where we have with us two hon- ourable members –former honour able members. I 'd like to draw attention to the Speaker's loge, where we have with us today Peter Bjornson, the former member for Gimli, and Drew Caldwell, the former member for Brandon East. On behalf of all members, we welcome you. Also, I'd like to draw attention to the loge on my right, where we have also with us former MLA, Gerry McAlcum [phonetic], who was the member for Sturgeon Creek.

Gerry McAlpine, sorry. * (13:50) MEMBERS' STATEMENTS National Day of Remembrance and Action on Violence against Women Ms. Jelynn Dela Cruz (Radisson): Today is the National Day of Remembrance and Action on Violence against Women. On this day, over 30 years ago, 14 brilliant young women were murdered in their place of learning, École polytechnique de Montréal. Women belong in all spaces of expertise, of knowledge and decision making, like blue -collar work, science, mathematics, business, education and politics. Though we do not only belong in these spaces, we excel in them.

The women we lost on this tragic day were future engineers, a future nurse and a financial clerk, each possessing a mind for innovation and many who were my age or younger. The world will never know how much better off we could have been as a society if they had still been with us today. We owe it to them to dismantle gender -based violence in all forms and elevate women to all spaces of influence. Meanwhile, women still dis - proportionately struggle with access to basic human needs including child care, housing, food, employ - ment, reproductive justice and other forms of health care.

In Radisson, the Plessis Family Resource Centre run by Family D ynamics works every day to reduce the impact of social inequity and systemic gender - based violence. Having made many friends at the centre and donated care packages in the past, their work is incredibly close to my heart. Single mothers, women having fl ed abuse and families with young children are largely represented in the population that they serve from the adjacent Manitoba Housing community.

At the Plessis Family Resource Centre, community members in need benefit from babysitting, after -school activities, meal programming, a food bank, budgeting group and so much more. In Manitoba, the rate of gender-based violence is higher than the national average. By uplifting the work of grassroots organizations like the Plessis Family Resource Centre, together, we can change that. And so, I invite the Legislature to join me in recognizing their im portant role in eliminating gender-based violence and by applauding those who we have in the gallery here today. The Speaker: The honour able member –sorry.

The honourable member for Radisson. Ms. Dela Cruz: I would also like to submit their–the names of the 14 young women, once more, as well as our guests in the gallery today for the record in Hansard. The Speaker: Names are submitted. Anne-Marie Edward, age 21; M aud Haviernick, age 29; Barbara Klucznik -Widajewicz, age 31; Maryse Laganière, age 25; Maryse Leclair, age 23; Anne-Marie Lemay, age 22; Sonia Pelletier, age 28; Michèle Richard, age 21; Annie St-Arneault, age 23; Annie Turcotte, age 20.

Plessis Com munity Family Resource Centre: Harshita Agnihotri, Mary Chiengkou, Erin Fluerar, Nono Ndlovu Portage Learning and Literacy Centre MLA Jeff Bereza (Portage la Prairie): Yesterday, we heard much talk about adult literacy, and it triggered my statement that I'm going to present today. I am pleased to talk about a few organizations that are making a difference in the constituency of Portage la Prairie. And one of those organi zations is the Portage Learning and Literacy Centre.

It provides immigrant settlement services, language training, a youth en - gagement program, a high school for adults wishing to obtain their grade 12, employment assist ance and also the oppor tunity to have passport pictures taken. It's doubled in size over the last couple of years. We have many new immigrants coming to Portage la Prairie, and the Portage Learning and Literacy Centre is a big part of that.

December 6, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 407 Another organi zation is the Portage la Prairie revitalization corporation, works with community to create a community. They empower citizens, enhance neighbourhoods and foster community spirit and build capacity of community organization. I must also recognize the Portage Bear Clan that provides community-based solution crime prevention and provides a sense of safety, solidarity and belonging to both members and our community.

The community foundation of Portage la Prairie serves the charitable needs of local donors and grant seekers from all walks of life to provide funding for local community priorities for many, many years. And finally, big sisters and big brothers of Central Plains creates mentoring relationships and has been there. This year is their 50th year anniversary. 'Organation'–organizations like these and indi - viduals who are devoted to them are really the g lue that holds all of our communities together. The Speaker: Member's time has expired. Thank you very much. Westman Multicultural Festival Hon.

Glen Simard (Minister of Sport, Culture, Heritage and Tourism): The Brandon East constituency is rich in diversity and culture, and nothing showcases our cultural mosaic better than the Westman Multicultural Festival. This three-day event is hosted around the city and showcases the cultural food, beverages, dance, music, art and history of Brandon's population. This festival has been a pillar of the Westman and Brandon community for the past 19 years. Originally named the Lieutenant Governor 's winter festival, this long - standing annual tradition has grown significantly since its inception.

Like many other co mmunity initiatives, the Westman Multicultural Festival was on a two -year hiatus due to the pandemic. This year, the Westman cultural festival hosted a summer event to bring people back and welcomed over 5,000 patrons. One of the great benefits of the fes tival is the amount of tourism that it generates. People from all over the province travel to Brandon to take

part in events. In the past, 40 to 50 thousand visitors will come and bear the frigid winters with a lot of joy. This festival breathes life into Brandon, as it provides a fun learning opportunity for the whole family. This festival so far has eight confirmed pavilions: India, El Salvador, Mexico, Philippines, Ukraine, Mauritius, Jamaica and Honduras. Honourable Speaker, I encourage all members in this House to come out and experience the Westman Multicultural Festival. I'm telling you now because it's in February, the 8th to the 10th.

With a variety of venues and multiple different pavilions, there is something at the festival for everyone. Louise Dyck Mr. Konrad Narth (La Vérendrye): Today I rise to acknowledge the upcoming 100th birthday of constituent Louise Therese Anna Dyck, maiden name Bedard. Louise was born December 12, 1923, in La Broquerie, the 10th child in a family of 13. Louise spent her childhood and teenage years in La Broquerie, where she completed high school. In December of 1942, Louise married and together they had two daughters.

In 1946, Louise and her husband separated, and sadly, she was separated from her children for a number of years before she was able to be reunited. Louise married two more times later in life, but was left widowed both times. As a single mother of two children, Louise worked hard and always looked to improve her way of earning a living to support her family. This resulted in many occupations over the years, such as waitressing; hairdressing; managing a restaurant, a salon, a sewing factory; and radio advertising for the Singer Sewing Machine Company on the French CKSB radio station.

She also designed and modelled her own clothing line, which included sales to actresses across the US. She eventually became a realtor. But not just a realtor; the first female realtor in Manitoba. Louise received many awards as a realtor, notably the top salesperson in Winnipeg. At age 70, she retired from her final career. Louise was able to live on her own, do all her own shopping, clean and cook for herself until the age of 95. In July of this year, she moved to the Grunthal Seniors' Home, where she resides today. Louise has made it her goal to live to reach the age of 105 years.

I wish you the best in attaining your goal. Happy birthday, Louise.

408 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 6, 2023 Philippine-Canadian Centre of Manitoba MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Mabuhay. Magandang tanghali po. [Live. Good afternoon.] I rise today to congratulate the Philippine - Canadian Centre of Manitoba, which we all know as PCCM, who recently celebrated their 25th anniversary.

My colleagues from Burrows, Maples and Radisson were in attendance with me, where we heard from many board members and past presidents about the important role PCCM plays in the community. * (14:00) Honourable Speaker, PCCM, the hall itself, is used every day for socials, Zumba and special events like town halls and concerts. PCCM has brought hundreds of thousands of people together over the years, and it continues to grow through small businesses and restaurants within. They also offer outreach programs, immigrant services and youth leadership training, just to name a few.

PCCM provides a place for Filipino Manitobans to feel a sense of comfort and familiarity, and it has become a staple not just in the North End, but for a growing population of Filipinos. There are over 1 million Filipinos here in Canada; 100,000 of them live here in Mani toba, making up 7 per cent of our population. This makes our province a better and more culturally diverse place to live and call home. Honourable Speaker, there are 13 current mem - bers of PCCM's board, and I 'll table their names this afternoon.

Some of these members are school trustees, public health providers, leaders in Filipino associations and radio hosts. They serve as an umbrella organi zation to help keep their traditions, customs, values and identity strong. In closing, Honourable Speaker, I want to congra- tulate PCCM on their 25th anniversary. I want to thank the entire board for their continued work. And I'd like to ask my colleagues to join me today in thanking and showing appre ciation to Kuya Enrico and Kuya Dante, who have joined us here today in the galleries. Thank you.

Virginia Gayot, president; Gerard Madarang, vice-president; Rodrigo Lopez, secretary; Lou Fernandez, treasurer; Maria Harper, assistant treasurer; Dante Aviso, auditor Members: Efren Cabrera; Gigi Gacula; Eric Hernandez; Lucille Nolasco- Garrido; Christopher Santos; Enrico Tiglao; Paul Unciano ORAL QUESTIONS Provincial Fiscal Forecast Tax Increase Concerns Ms. Heather Stefanson (Leader of the Official Opposition): The Premier came out yesterday with junk math cooked up to make the books look bad in Manitoba.

But there's a rule in politics that when you bring forward a problem, to be productive, you also bring forward a solution. Of course, we didn' t see anything from this Premier in the way of a solution. Three billion dollars worth of promises to Manitobans that he and his colleagues made in the last election. What is his plan to implement those commit ments on behalf of Manitobans? What is his solution? Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): I want to, with the greatest of humility, shout -out the wonderful people of this fantastic province for their wisdom and for their trust.

The problem: $1.6- billion deficit created by the outgoing PC administration. The solution came on October 3, when Manitobans elected our government to fix health care, balance the budget and lower costs for families. The Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Ms. Stefanson: Still no plan or vision for this 1.6 million–or, billion -dollar defic it that has been made up by the Premier of Manitoba. Is it –why is it that he is refusing to let Manitobans know what his plan is?

Is it because he was afraid to reveal the real plan, which is to jack up taxes on the backs of hard-working Manitobans who are just trying to make ends meet in Manitoba? Mr. Kinew: I want to point out, for the people across this province, that no serious person has questioned the fact that the PCs left us with a $1.6-billion deficit as of September 30. Our team is hard at work to fix the situation that they created in their des perate final moments, in which they abandoned any pretext of fiscal responsibility.

December 6, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 409 Now, I'd also want to point out, for the member opposite, that throughout her time as premier – throughout her time as a Cabinet minister–she charged Manitobans 14 cents a litre every time they went to the pump, including during a period of the highest inflation rates for a generation. We're bringing relief. On January 1, as one of our first major acts as government, we're cutting the prov- incial fuel tax to save you and your family money. There will be plenty more good news in the new year as well.

The Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Ms. Stefanson: What we did, Honourable Speaker, was we brought in the largest income tax reduction in the history of Manitoba so that Manitobans could make ends meet. Now, just a little while ago, the Premier said that he agreed with that, which was in our last budget. Now, maybe he is saying he doesn' t agree with that, but, again, he brought forward this fake crisis in Manitoba. Simply, what we want to ask him is , what is his plan? What is his solution?

Will he not just admit that his solution for Manitobans is to jack up taxes on their backs to make life less affordable for them in Manitoba? Mr. Kinew: We're cutting taxes; that's right. Starting on January 1st. Notably, it's a tax that the PCs insisted on charging throughout their time in office. Beyond this, we are charting a course towards fiscal responsibility that will see us balance the budget within this term of government while also investing in health care, im portantly, by cutting through the bureaucracy to reinvest in the front lines.

Perhaps the member opposite would like to explain when the PC Party began to oppose cutting bureaucracy, lowering taxes and delivering for the people of Manitoba. But I will point out that this week, she is questioning this–with these actions, she is questioning officials within the Department of Justice, within the Treasury Board; that's where I draw the line. 2024 Tax Rebates and Credits Government Intention Mr. Grant Jackson (Spruce Woods): The NDP gov- ernment campaigned on keeping the tax reductions in Budget 2023–[interjection] The Speaker: Order. Mr.

Jackson: The NDP government campaigned on keeping the tax reductions in Budget 2023 despite having voted against them just weeks prior. Now, with their new junk math being released yesterday, many Manitobans are rightl y concerned that they may flip-flop on these measures again. Will the NDP be keeping the increase in the basic personal amount, raising it to $15,000 and saving the average Manitoba two-income household over $1,000 more? Hon.

Wab Kinew (Premier): I just want to repeat for the benefit of everybody watching along that no serious person, even to this very moment, has questioned the veracity that there 's a $1.6- billion deficit left to us by the previous administration. Five hundred dollars –$500 million in forgone revenue; $500 million in increased expenditure; and, of course, a $600 miss–$600-million miss at Manitoba Hydro is a $1.6-billion deficit. That's real math, not junk math. Does the member opposite care to explain why he supports a leader who dug us such a fiscal mess?

The Speaker: The honourable member for Spruce Woods, on a supplementary question. Mr. Jackson: No answer there, Honourable Speaker, on the basic personal amount, so we'll see what comes with the good news in January. Budget 2023's fiscal framework, which the NDP committed to keeping during the campaign, contained other significant tax measures for Manitobans. Will the Premier be keeping the tax bracket changes introduced in Budget 2023, set to take effect in the 2024 tax year when Manitobans will need even more relief? Mr.

Kinew: You know, our gov ernment has taken immediate action within our first days to save you money. One of our first steps is to bring the provincial fuel tax on gasoline and diesel to zero. That helps consumers; that helps busi ness; that helps the ag industry. We also froze Crown land lease rates to help beef producers in this province. At the same time, we 're making important investments in health care, led by

410 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 6, 2023 our Minister of Health. Every step of the way, however, we have been opposed by this PC caucus. So I will repeat my question: What is it that they have against investing in health care and lowering costs for you, the people of Manitoba? The Speaker: The honourable member for Spruce Woods, on a final supplementary question. * (14:10) Mr. Jackson: Well, Speaker, we' ve had the carbon tax flip-flop. We've had the fuel tax flip -flop. We've had the education property tax rebate flip-flop. We've had the Hydro rate freeze flip-flop or delay, we're not sure.

Now today we 've added the basic personal amount flip-flop and the tax bracket increase flip-flop. Will the Premier come out and just admit that he never had any intention of keeping the tax reductions and fiscal framework brought in by thi s party in Budget 2023, despite committing to Manitoba–'tobans' that he was going to do so during the campaign? Mr. Kinew: Our government is saving you money. We're cutting the provincial fuel tax on January 1.

And I just want to remind the people fol lowing along that, up to this very moment, no serious person has questioned the fact that the PCs left us with a $1.6-billion deficit. I will, however, point out that the member opposite is a former political staffer to that failed administration, which means that his presence here in the Chamber not only speaks to their lack of ability to recruit new candidates, but also is testament to the fact that the member opposite from Tuxedo–[interjection] The Speaker: Order. Mr.

Kinew: –hid from every single other member the fact that she was driving–[interjection] The Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –the Province's finances significantly to the red. [interjection] The Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: The question is: Did anyone else notice? The Speaker: Order. I would point out to the members that when the Speaker is standing, they should remain quiet. Resuming oral questions.

Education Property Tax Rebate Government Intention MLA Jeff Bereza (Portage la Prairie): Yesterday, the Premier answered, no, I won't, when he was asked a simple question about whether he would look farmers in the eye and tell them whether he will cut the education property tax rebate. On this side of the House, we could hardly believe what we were hearing. We know that the NDP are planning on breaking their promise to freeze Manitoba hydro rates, but now they 're flip-flopping again and saying they won't commit to farmers and keep the edu- cation property tax rebate.

So I ask the NDP ministers, is this another broken promise? Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): Perhaps the problem has to do with the double negatives used in the way that they posed their questions, but I 'll say it crystal clear here. No, I won 't be raising taxes on ag producers. No, I won't be charging you on marked fuel come January 1. And no, I won't be increasing Crown land rents as the PCs did every single year that they were in office. My question for the members opposite is why are we doing so many good things for the ag industry today when all they have are criticisms?

Per haps it's because we have more farmers on our side of the House now, as of October 3rd. The Speaker: The honourable member for Portage la Prairie, on a supplementary question. MLA Bereza: I would like to point out the number of rural people on this side of the table. The Premier 's words could not have been any more clear: no, I won't. He said he won't look people in the eye and commit to keeping the education property tax rebate. It's right in Hansard for everyone else to see. This sounds a lot like they 're preparing to break yet another promise.

Will this Premier look into the camera and tell Manitobans right now he will not break promises that Manitoba voted for just a short time ago? Hon. Ron Kostyshyn (Minister of Agriculture): It's been a long wait since I've had an agriculture question, so thank you to the member 'opp' for bringing the question forward. When we talk about the importance of agri cul- ture–and I don't have to re-educate the critic from the other side of the House –9 per cent of the GDP is

December 6, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 411 produced by our agriculture producers, the importance of agriculture in this province. And I'm very proud to stand here today in defence of all the agricul ture producers in this province of Manitoba. And we work together. I'm talking about working together, not like members opposite, pick and choose, cherry-pick who they want to support and who they do not want to support. And let me say– The Speaker: The member's time has expired. The honourable member for Portage la Prairie, on a final supplementary.

MLA Bereza: Thank you for not answering that question, Ron. The Premier (Mr. Kinew)– The Speaker: Order. Order. It's a long-standing rule that members are not allowed to use members' names. They have to use either their min isterial title or their constituency. MLA Bereza: My apologies, Honourable Speaker. The Premier plans to run a deficit more than $1.3 billion higher than what was budgeted. He is rushing to spend money faster than a reckless spendthrift.

But what Manitobans and f arm families want to know is whether their educa tion property tax rebate will be a casualty, again, of the NDP 's three -year deficit plan. Will he go out and tell Manitobans that we –he will never raise taxes, and that he will keep the educa- tion property tax rebates for Manitobans? Mr. Kostyshyn: I wonder if I could ask the member opposite, did he go to the Crown lands lessee and ask them, do you mind if we double up your –three times your lease rates and double bill you in the same year? Did you go out and do that?

I think it 's very inconsiderate of the people that are working every day on the farms, doing–for the betterment of our economic dev elopment in our province. We've actually had probably the lowest popula - tion of livestock since 1991, yet the two previous Agriculture ministers from that side of the House: we're going to increase the population of cattle in the province of Manitoba. Did they? No they did not.

And I do have to say, it 's unfortunate that you're going to take the catt le producers to pay back the $1.6-billion deficit that that government– The Speaker: The member's time has expired. 2024 Tax Rebates and Credits Government Intention Ms. Jodie Byram (Agassiz): The audited public accounts showed that last –the last fiscal year had a $270-million surplus. Our PC team showed regular improvement, with two surpluses in the last five years.

Now, the NDP Premier has directed his Finance Minister to run deficits for the next three years and said he won 't look to –won't look Manitobans in the eye and tell them their education rebates are safe. Will this Finance Minister commit today that his deficits will not mean a cut to the edu cation property tax rebate for homeowners and farmers? The Speaker: The member's time has expired. Hon. Adrien Sala (Minister of Finance): The PCs left Manitobans with a $1.6-billion deficit. That's the facts. I know that the members opposite don' t want to accept that, but that is just simply the reality.

And that is going to create sig nificant challenges for our province. But our team is up to the task. We 're going to work together with Manitobans to ensure we deliver on the commitments that we were sent here to deliver on. That includes ensuring we continue to fix health care, than ks to the great work of our incred ible health-care minister; to fix edu cation, thanks to the great work of our incredible Education Minister. And we're going to continue to make life more affordable– The Speaker: The member's time has expired. The honourable member for Agassiz, on a supplementary question. Ms.

Byram: Well, they might be struggling with the math on this, but the Manitoba families are struggling with high inflation and the cost of groceries, rents and home heating bills. * (14:20) Thankfully to our PC team here , we brought in real tax relief for households with renters tax credits,

412 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 6, 2023 the edu cation rebate; January 1st, Manitobans will again get a tax reduction and bigger paycheques thanks to our PC team. Will the Finance Minister commit today that he will keep all of the education tax rebates, income tax cuts and tax credits that are proving real relief and bigger paycheques for all Manitobans? MLA Sala: You know, one of the most concern ing aspects for Manitobans about this ne ws of a $1.6-billion deficit is that the members opposite knew about this before the election but failed to tell Manitobans about that.

They knew that their cuts to health care were costing Manitobans millions in overtime. They knew that Manitoba Hydro wat er levels were lower than they were supposed to be, knowing that net income for Hydro was going to be significantly lower. They hid this infor mation from Manitobans. That's in keeping with their record, Hon ourable Speaker, lacking trans parency, fai ling to be honest with Manitobans. Times have changed. This gov ern- ment will continue to be trans parent. We're going to fix the mess they made, and we 're going to make life better for all Manitobans.

The Speaker: The honourable member for Agassiz, on a final supplementary question. Ms. Byram: Well, these are easy yes-or-no questions, but the NDP never want to give a straight answer. Will the minister commit today to keeping all the existing tax credits: education property tax rebates and income tax cuts that they are taking –that are taking effect January 1, 2024? This will give Manitobans some needed relief and bigger paycheques in the new year, or will you be cutting these rebates and tax breaks? MLA Sala: You know, I appreciate the question from the member.

It gives me another great oppor tunity to talk about the mess that the members opposite left for us. They budgeted–they released a budget in March that said we were going to have a $363- million deficit at the end of this fiscal year. O nly a matter of months later, in the end of July, they released a Q1 number that suggested that deficit number was holding the same. Suddenly, two months later, $1.2 billion–poof, Honourable Speaker, up in thin air. That's approximately the value of the entire budget for the City of Winnipeg, the entire budget for the City of Winnipeg just gone in thin air.

That's the record that they have behind us, Mr. Honourable Speaker. On this side of the House, we're going to make sure that we do what Manitobans want to see, which is manage the books responsibly. We're still going to deliver on our commitments– The Speaker: Member's time has expired. Education Property Tax Rebate Government Intention Mrs. Kathleen Cook (Roblin): Honourable Speaker, it's like Chicken Little on that side of the House: the sky is falling despite inheriting a booming economy and the third highest GDP growth in the country.

But it's creating a lot of uncertainty for Manitoba families who are trying to manage tight budgets. The edu cation property tax rebate saved the average Manitoba family nearly $800 this year. And now the Minister of Finance is telling parents and families that they're going to have to tighten their belts and find that money and hand it over to the NDP. Will the Minister of Finance give families the certainty that they need to manage their family budget and confirm that the education property tax rebate is not on the chopping block? Hon.

Adrien Sala (Minister of Finance): Here's what I can confirm, Honourable Speaker: Manitobans now have a gov ernment that actually cares about the affordability challenges they face. For seven long years, Manitobans had a gov ern- ment that was not concerned about the challenges they were facing. That 's clear becau se we saw for seven years they failed to act. Those days are over. We' re bringing forward very im portant solutions that will help to improve affordability for Manitobans, including our fuel tax holiday, which will begin on January 1, and help Manitobans to save money after the holidays.

That 's in addition to other items, for example, our hydro rate freeze and our commit ment to lower the cost of heating for Manitobans, through geothermal investments– The Speaker: Member's time has expired. The honourable member for Roblin, on a supple- mentary question. Mrs. Cook: Honourable Speaker, the minister knows that the tax breaks that are coming into effect January 1, once cut, will effectively nullify any savings from the gas tax cut. The NDP have put forward zero affordability measures other than that,

December 6, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 413 and they're going to wipe it out by cancelling all the tax cut–tax breaks set to take effect January 1st. I'll ask again, because we' ve asked this question multiple times: Will the Finance Minister commit that the education property tax rebate is going to go ahead? MLA Sala: Honourable Speaker, I think that the Health critic for the opposition would do well to take a lesson from the member for Tyndall Park (MLA Lamoureux) who's focused on questions about health care, one of the key issues that Manitobans are facing.

That would be, I think, advisable – [interjection] The Speaker: Order. MLA Sala: In terms of affordability, we are doing the important work of making life more affordable for Manitobans. We're very proud to be bringing forward a fuel tax holiday that will benefit Manitobans in every corner of the province, including farmers, including Manitobans in our northern communities. We're doing the real work of making life better for Manitoba ns, not what they did for seven years, which was make life more expensive. The Speaker: The honourable member for Roblin, on a final supplementary question. Mrs.

Cook: I think, as a member of this House, I have just as much a right as any other membe r to ask a question about accountability. Yesterday the NDP began laying the groundwork for the massive tax hikes and broken promises that they're set to roll out, after realizing that they can 't possibly pay for $3-billion worth of election promises It's creating a lot of uncertainty for Manitoba families who want to know: Can they count on the education property tax rebate in January or do they need to start budgeting hundreds of extra dollars to hand over to the NDP?

MLA Sala: Honourable Speaker, I want to remind the members opposite that during their seven years, they focused on–in raising hydro rates on Manitobans in a way that no other gov ernment has done in this province's history. In fact, they brought forward a bill, bill 36, that was focused exclusively on finding new and creative ways of raising energy costs on Manitobans as quickly as possible. And that 's while they dismantled the traditional role of the PUB. That's their record. Their record is making life more expensive for Manitobans. What are we focused on? Reducing costs of living so Manitobans can get ahead.

Budget 2024 Tax Bracket Increase Mrs. Lauren Stone (Midland): This NDP gov ern- ment is setting the stage to break their promises to Manitobans. They're fudging the numbers and putting their thumb on the scale to justify the massive tax hikes that we know that they're going to bring in. Why won't this Minister of Finance commit when the Premier (Mr. Kinew) didn't answer my colleague? So I will ask him: Will Budget 202 4 include the increase in indexed tax brackets that they campaigned on? The Speaker: Sorry–the honour able Minister of Finance. I didn't have my mic on. Hon.

Adrien Sala (Minister of Finance): Again, very pleased to have this op portunity to stand up to talk about this im portant issue of the massive fiscal mess that the previous gov ernment left for Manitobans to clean up. Again, one of the most concern ing things that we've revealed here is that the previous gov ernment knew about this. They knew about this before Manitobans went to the polls, and they failed to reveal that to Manitobans because they hoped to somehow hide this with the hope that Manitobans would possibly vote for them or that they would vote them back into government.

What we' ve seen, Hon ourable Speaker, is that Manitobans are deeply concerned about what 's been revealed here. We know that they hid infor mation; they hid the fact that hydro water levels were low; they hid the fact that health -care expenditures were going to go way over budget, all because of their cuts and their decisions. The Speaker: Member's time has expired. The honourable member for Midland, on a sup- plementary question. Mrs. Stone: Honourable Speaker, our PC team 's measures took thousands and t housands of low-income Manitobans off the tax rolls and allowed them to invest in their own futures.

We did this because we know that Manitobans can have their own budgets and know how to spend their own

414 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 6, 2023 hard-earned money. This NDP gov ernment wants to spend their money for them. It's a very simple yes -or-no question: Can the Minister of Finance please tell Manitobans whether Budget 2024 will include the increase in indexed tax brackets that they campaigned on? * (14:30) MLA Sala: Honourable Speaker, here's what we can tell Manitobans: you finally have a gov ernment that cares about the affordability challenges you're facing. You know, for years –again, for years –what did they do?

They took creative measures to raise energy costs as high possible, as quickly as possible on Manitobans. They even went as far as raising taxes on renters, Honourable Speaker. Raising taxes on people on fixed incomes, on seniors, on families with disabil- ities. That's their record. What's our record? We're already coming in with solutions to reduce the costs of living for Manitobans, starting with our fuel tax holiday January 1. The Speaker: The honourable member for Midland, on a final supplementary question. Mrs. Stone: Affordability and cost of living is the No. 1 issue that Manitobans are dealing with.

Angus Reid poll has said this is the No. 1 issue that Manitobans are dealing with. Yet, this Premier (Mr. Kinew) and the gov ern- ment refuses to acknowl edge that this is the No. 1 issue that Manitobans are dealing with. And the only bill that they have intro duced in this House is a temporary tax cut that won 't go beyond June 30, because they don 't think inflation is going to be a problem after June 30. So, other than giving their own staff salary increases and swank y offices, what has this gov ern- ment been doing for the past two months? MLA Sala: Honourable Speaker, they made life more expensive.

We're going to make it more affordable. Health-Care Budget Government Intention MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Yesterday, the gov ernment announced the bleak fiscal outlook with a giant deficit of over a billion and a half dollars. All throughout the campaign trail, this NDP gov- ernment campaigned hard on a promise of no cuts. Will this Premier stand up tod ay and commit to all Manitobans that he will not cut any portion of its health-care budget in the province of Manitoba? Hon.

Wab Kinew (Premier): I want to thank the member for Tyndall Park for once again bringing an important question forward on the N o. 1 issue that matters to the people of Manitoba, which is health care. Of course, the members of the Progressive Conservative caucus are choosing to ignore this, for good reason; they created a mess in health care, just like the mess they created with the $1.6-billion deficit. But we know that because of their closures of emergency rooms, the cuts to health-care staffing, the disrespect for those on the front lines, it is going to take years to fix.

And actually, I think that the member 's question gets to the heart of the matter: it is going to be a challenge, but it is going to be an achievable one that we are committed to doing, which is to fix the fiscal mess left by the PCs while creating new invest ments in health care to improve things for you, the patient, and the families across the great province. The Speaker: The honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a supplementary question.

Provincial Deficit Forecast Election Campaign Platform MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): This NDP government should have had some foresight into the state of the Province 's finances before making such grand promises. The fiscal update yesterday sounds like this gov- ernment is setting the stage to announce budget cuts on services that Manitobans rely on. Will th is Premier share with Manitobans any campaign promises that he may not be able to fulfill because of the deficit? Hon.

Wab Kinew (Premier): I agree with the member for Tyndall Park's assertion that the people of Manitoba should have known about the $1.6- billion deficit that the PCs had run up on their way out the door. The Progressive Conservative caucus should have shared this infor mation with the people before you voted. The leader of the PC Party should have shared this with the people–she probably should have shared it with her own caucus –prior to election day here in Manitoba.

December 6, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 415 But I want to reassure people across the province that in spite of the sig nificant fiscal irresponsibility practiced by the outgoing adminis tration, we are going to make good on our commit ments, which are to staff up health care, to build new emergency rooms, to cut the fuel tax, to freeze hydro rates and to end chronic homelessness in the next eight years. The Speaker: The honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a final supplementary question. MLA Lamoureux: This gov ernment needs to be upfront with Manitobans and answer tough questions.

Governments need to be held accountable, not only for their fiscal manage ment, but as well as for their fiscal planning. Did this government honestly and sincerely have no idea that the province was sitting in such debt prior to making their campaign promises? Mr. Kinew: I'm as disappointed as anyone to learn of the fact that a $1.6 -billion deficit was hid from you, the people of Manitoba, by the outgoing Progressive Conservative administration. I could share with the member for Tyndall Park what it was like for us after the election, on October 3.

After about one hour of sleep, we went out and we started to do media responses, and then we made our way here to the Manitoba Legislature. In the first briefing we received , a remark able picture of fiscal irresponsibility at the hands of the last premier was painted for us. The good news is that since that moment, our team has bee n hard at work charting a course towards fiscal respon sibility while making good on commit ments to health care and making your life more affordable. Gender-Based Violence Steps to Address Mrs.

Rachelle Schott (Kildonan-River East): Today, on the Nati onal Day of Remembrance and Action on Violence against Women, we honour the lives of 14 young women who were murdered in the devastating act of gender-based violence 34 years ago today. This tragic anniversary is a reminder that gender-based violence still persists today and that we must continue to condemn all forms of misogyny in our province. Could the Minister responsible for Gender Equity please share with the House what action her depart - ment is taking to address gender-based violence? Hon.

Nahanni Fontaine (Minister responsible for Gender Equity): I want to say miigwech to my colleague for the very important question, particularly on this day of remembrance. Our gov ernment is taking serious, tangible, immediate action to combat gender -based violent, in particular, against –violence against Indigenous women, girls and two- spirited. We are immediately reinstating the special adviser on Indigenous women's issues. We're establishing and working in partnership with commu nity organizations for a 24 -7 drop- in centre for Indigenous women, girls and two- spirited.

And we are also working on a prov incial data set to record all cases of missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls and two-spirited. Most in the Chamber and most outside the Chamber would know that Manitoba actually doesn't have a prov incial data set on the actual numbers. We're committed to doing that so we have an accurate reflection– The Speaker: The member's time is expired. North End Water Treatment Plant Funding Inquiry Mr. Jeff Wharton (Red River North): It's remark- able, Hon ourable Speaker, that in just two months, this NDP Premier (Mr.

Kinew) and his bean counters have racked up the first billion- dollar deficit. It must be a Manitoba record. Add that to half a billion dollars in spending last month–[interjection] The Speaker: Order. Mr. Wharton: –and $3 billion in elections promises that they will not keep, some thing will have to give, Honourable Speaker; tax hikes, program cuts, infra - structure cuts. In light of the NDP's billion-dollar deficit, will the infrastructure minister commit to Winnipeggers and Manitobans today that the North End treatment plant won't be among the list of funding cuts in 2024? Hon.

Lisa Naylor (Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure): You know, never before in our province's history has an outgoing gov ernment left our province in such a bad position financially. A $1.6-billion deficit caused by the former government. This will have an impact across government, and it is the responsibility of the outgoing government. We also treat our public servants with respect, not with name calling. Despite a 30 per cent vacancy rate

416 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 6, 2023 in this department, our team works hard to continue to build the infrastructure of this province. The Speaker: The honourable member for Red River North, on a supplementary question. Mr. Wharton: For 17 years, the NDP, including the former member from Gimli, the NDP MLA Peter Bjornson, did nothing to protect Lake Winnipeg, Hon- ourable Deputy Speaker. * (14:40) Our PC gov ernment got this im portant work started. Shovels are in the ground and cranes are standing up, Honourable Speaker.

While the NDP minister commit–will the NDP minister commit today to the City of Winnipeg t o continue funding their fair share of this very important project for Lake Winnipeg, yes or no? MLA Naylor: I'm not certain if members on the other side of the House have a full concept of what $1.6 billion means and what it means to an infra - structure budget. So I 'm going to give a couple of examples. Yesterday, I was asked about RTAC highways and about expanding a stretch of a highway to make it more RTAC. That 's 889 kilometres of RTAC highway; that's what $1.6 billion would pay for.

You know, it would–I was asked about bridges; $1.6 billion would build 40 new bridges in this province. And that's what this government threw away. The Speaker: The honourable member for Red River North, on a final supplementary question. Mr. Wharton: Honourable Speaker, this project is a priority for Winnipeggers and Manitobans who care about our lake and our environment.

While the NDP abandoned their environmental sensibilities for well over two decades, including the former member from Gimli, who lives on the shores of Lake Winnipeg, finally stand up for Lake Winnipeg, make the invest ments and commit to Winnipeggers and Manitobans that they will protect Lake Winnipeg for genera tions to come so my grandkids, and maybe the former member from Gimli's grandkids, can swim in Lake Winnipeg. Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): I just want the members in the Chamber to just bear with us for a quick second so we can restore a modicum of respect and dignity here.

First of all, we are going to get the project built. But I want to say clearly the only way that we do big things like this is with the help of hard -working civil servants. And so we respect you, and we don' t use time in the Chamber to disrespect you. But the sort of attitude on display here is why the members opposite are sitting in the op position benches, because they want to divide people. We want to bring people together. And that 's why I want to say to the retired members that we respect you as well.

And it's the fact that we're bringing people together that is the reason we're getting more and more support, and so that even retired Progressive Conservative members are now standing with our team on the government's side of the House. The Speaker: The time for oral questions has expired. The time for oral questions has expired. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. The Speaker: Order, please. Order. Order. Order. Order. The Speaker is standing. That means there should be quiet in the room.

So, before I get to a ruling that I have, I'd just like to point out to members that a ce rtain amount of respect should be paid to former members and not try and engage them in the question and answers that they place here. Speaker's Ruling The Speaker: And I have a ruling for the House. Following the land acknowl edgement on November 27, 2023, the honourable Official Opposi- tion House Leader (Mr.

Johnson) raised a matter of privilege alleging that on Friday, November 24th, 2023, during oral questions, the honour able First Minister deliberately misled Manitobans when discussing the firing of Michael Swinstun [phonetic] from the economic development board secretariat. The member concluded his remarks by moving that this House condemn the Premier (Mr. Kinew) for deliberately misleading the Legislature and that the matter be imme diately–the matter imme diately be referred to a permanent standing committee of this House for investigation.

The honourable First Minister spoke to the matter before I took it under advisement.

December 6, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 417 For the information of the House, in order for a matter of privilege raised to be ruled in order as a prima facie case of privilege, members must demonstrate that the issue has been raised at the earliest op portunity, while also providing sufficient evidence that the privileges of the House have been breached. On the condition of timeliness, the honourable Official Opposition House Leader (Mr. Johnson) indicated that this was his first opportunity to rise on the matter after reviewing Hansard, and I would agree with the member on that point.

Regarding the second issue of whether a prima facie case of privilege has been established, it has been ruled on numerous times in this House that a member rising on such a matter of privilege must provide specific proof of the intent to mislead the House on the pa rt of the member in question. Providing information that may show the facts are at variance is not the same as providing proof of intent to mislead.

Past Manitoba Speakers have ruled that without a member admitting in the House that they had the stated g oal of misleading the House when putting remarks on the record, it is impossible to prove that a member had deliberately intended to mislead the House. The procedural authorities also offer commentary on the issue of misleading the House. Joseph Maingot states on page 241 of the second edition of Parliamentary Privilege in Canada that allegations that a member has misled the House are, in fact, matters of order and not matters of privilege.

He also states on page 223 of the same edition that disputes be tween two members about questions of facts said in debate do not constitute a valid question of privilege because they are a matter of debate. Finally, multiple rulings have been delivered on– from this Chair over the past 40 years regarding matters of privilege involving the alleged misstatements by members or the provision of misinformation or inaccurate facts by members.

Speakers Phillips, Rocan, Dacquay, Hickes and Reid and Driedger have consistently ruled such situations to be disputes over facts, whi ch, according to the procedural authorities, do not fulfill the criteria of a prima facie case of privilege. Accordingly, I rule that a prima facie case of a breach of privilege has not been established in this case. Thank you for your attention to this ruling. * * * MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): A quick point of order. Point of Order The Speaker: The member for Tyndall Park, on a point of order.

MLA Lamoureux: I would just like to ask for leave to have the names I tabled during my member statement added to Hansard. Some Honourable Members: Leave. The Speaker: The names can be added to Hansard. * * * The Speaker: Petitions? Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Hon.

Nahanni Fontaine (Government House Leader): Honourable Speaker, could you please canvass the House to see if there is leave to waive rules 139(12) and 139(13) for Bill 4, the employment standards amendment and inter pretation amendment act, Orange Shirt Day, and Bill 2, The Louis Riel Act, to allow them to be deba ted at concurrence and third reading this afternoon, despite the fact that they were reported back from committee yesterday. The Speaker: Is there leave to waive rules 139(12) and 139(13) for Bill 4, The Em ployment Standards Code Amendment and

Interpretation Amendment Act (Orange Shirt Day), and Bill 2, The Louis Riel Act, to allow them to be debated at concurrence and third reading this afternoon, despite the fact that they were reported back from the committee yesterday? * (14:50) Is there leave? [Agreed] * * * MLA Fontaine: I thank members opposite for granting leave for us to debate those bills today. That's much appreciated. Honourable Speaker, would you please call for third reading and concurrence, Bill 4, The Em ploy- ment Standards Code Amendment and Inter pretation Amendment Act (Orange Shirt Day); and Bill 2, The Louis Riel Act, should we be finished with Bill 4. Miigwech.

418 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 6, 2023 The Speaker: It has been moved that we will now debate Bill 4–It has been announced that we will now debate Bill 4, the Em ployment Standards Code and

interpretation amendment act, Orange Shirt Day, followed by, if there 's sufficient time, Bill 2, The Louis Riel Act, and have them debated at concurrence and third reading this afternoon. CONCURRENCE AND THIRD READINGS Bill 4–The Employment Standards Code Amendment and

Interpretation Amendment Act (Orange Shirt Day) Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): I move, seconded by the Minister of Families (MLA Fontaine), that Bill 4, The Em ployment Standards Code Amendm ent and

Interpretation Amendment Act (Orange Shirt Day); Loi modifiant le Code des normes d 'emploi et la Loi d'interprétation (Journée du chandail orange), reported from the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development, be concurred in and be now read for a third time and passed. Motion presented. Mr. Kinew: This is a significant bill, as it fulfills one of the Calls to Action of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada. I note that this is a bill that has moved forward in di fferent spaces at different times.

There has been first, of course, the movement from resi dential school survivors, who brought the issue to national attention and who started wearing orange shirts to honour the story of Phyllis Webstad at some of the T RC events and other com munity events that were taking place across Canada. Then we saw the Truth and Reconciliation Commission deliver their final report, which contained within it Calls to Action that we have a dedicated day to commemorate the ex perience of resi dential school survivors, the children who never came home and the families who were left behind.

We've seen the federal gov ernment move forward with a national day of recog nition for truth and recon ciliation on September 30, and my f riend from Steinbach, during his time as premier, started the process of ensuring that this is observed with a day off at schools in Manitoba. What we' re proposing to do with this act that we're now bringing to third reading is to bring this project to its next logical step. Which is, of course, to ensure that all Manitobans can partici pate in Orange Shirt Day should they so choose, by ensuring that it is a statutory holiday in provincially regulated work - places.

This will ensure that the children of all families, including those who work in construction and manufacturing and other prov incially regulated sectors, will be able to participate. But there's also an element of choice here as well. For Manitobans who choose to go to work, they are free to do so. We 're now simply asking that their employer provide them with the holiday pay if they do decide to enter into such an arrangement.

This is an im portant step in fulfilling the next stage of our journey towards reconciliation, and I look forward to working with members from all parties and Manitobans from all walks of life to ensure that we have the necessary ability to commemorate Orange Shirt Day in all the relevant spaces and locations across the province of Manitoba.

On a personal level, I always like to reflect on the very im portant con tributions of resi dential school survivors, and we 've been very mindful in this Chamber these past few years of also honouring children who never came home, a phenomenon which is a sad part of our collective history as Canadians, but one that we have become more acquainted with in that time period. At the same time, it 's important that we honour the impacts on the families who were left behind during this era. As a parent today, I often reflect on what I would feel like if my kids had been a part of this era.

Certainly it's not something that any of us as parents would want to have the exper ience of going through. And yet here we are, as Canadians, each of us left to chart a positive path forward for our country, and to attempt to heal, to attempt to move forward, and attempt to address to find that time and that space to commemorate Orange Shirt Day. There will be many oppor tunities to do so in the future. There will be many contributions to our prov- incial curricula.

There will be many discussions in our public sphere throughout the calendar year which will allow us to continue on with this journey to recon- ciliation. But it's important that we set aside one specific day. On September 30th, the day identified by survivors them selves, using the terminology, the language and the symbol that they identified them - selves, and that, in so doing, by adhering to that image, by adhering to that date, by adhering to that language, that we commit to f ollowing in their steps,

December 6, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 419 magnanimous and graceful as they were, to not only honour the challenging parts of our history, but also to see fit to commemorate stories of resilience and, perhaps most relevant to the discussion here, and a bill that talks about education, is to engage in the constructive conversations of how it is we are going to build the society of the future that we all love and hold dear to ourselves. And so it's important that we recog nize the con- tributions of Indigenous people in getting us to this point.

But I also feel compelled to share, paraphrasing the not always politically correct language of my late father, who was reflecting on, you know, the phenomenon of reconciliation in Canada, and who was remarking, you know, some time when he was still around, prior to his passing in 2012, he reflected to me, you know, we never would have got the apology if non-Native people weren't also offended by residential schools and what happened during that era.

And so I offer those word s from a resi dential school survivor himself into the permanent record here in the Manitoba Legislature so that we might recognize that while residential school survivors have been leading the way in this conver sation of recon- ciliation, the fact that we have arrived at this point together is an indication that people from all walks of life here in Manitoba and across Canada have partici- pated in this journey.

And that it 's people from faith communities; it's people from cultural com munities, people from different geographic com munities that have participated together in this important journey. And while we still are con fronted with many challenges, whether it 's on recon ciliation or any number of issues that we discuss here at the Manitoba Legislature, I am optimistic in having learned from observation the power of what is possible when we listen to the elders and work together as people from all walks of life as to what we 're capable of together, what we're capable of doing collectively.

And so let this journey of reconciliation be one that sees fit to improve the lives of Indigenous people in Canada while ensuring that other Canadians are not made worse off. But let's also broaden out the conver- sation to ensure that the lessons we lea rn from this journey of reconciliation seek to bring all of us together in those great province -building and nation- building opportunities that present themselves to us. Thank you. Ms. Heather Stefanson (Leader of the Official Opposition): I am ple ased to rise today to put a few words on the record with respect to Bill 4. The Premier (Mr.

Kinew) said himself that this issue has been before us for quite some time now, and it was really our government that started to put the wheels in motion, so to speak, when it comes to the recognition and the importance of Orange Shirt Day, bringing it into our schools, bringing it into governments. And I know that we did extensive consul tation with the communities with respect to what they would like to see on Orange Shirt Day, and what they would like to see moving forward in our province.

And I think one of the great things about this is that we 've been able to work together throughout that time, and we've been able to come to a point now in this Legislature where we are so privileged and honoured to have the rules that we do in this Legislature to allow for people to come forward at the committee stage and speak to the importance of legislation that is passed in this Chamber in Manitoba, and, of course, that took place on Monday evening. * (15:00) This bill was before committee Monday evening, and now it 's before us today in third reading, and I simply just wanted to say thank you to all those individuals who partici pated over the course of the last number of years in the consultation process to get us to where we are today because they are the true heroes in all of this.

They are the ones that spoke up very loudly, and they are the reason that I think that we are here. They 're the reason that we made the changes that we did while we 're in gov ernment and that there are more changes here before us today. So with those few words, Hon ourable Speaker, I thank you very much, and we 're prepared to move this on. Hon. Nahanni Fontaine (Minister of Families): I'm pleased to rise in the House today to put a couple of words on the record in respect of Orange Shirt Day, the bill. I want to correct the record immediately that the Leader of the Op position just put on the record.

The Leader of the Opposition just put on the record that, in fact, it was their previous PC government that put the wheels in motion, as she stated, for Orange Shirt Day. That 's not accurate; that 's one hundred per cent not accurate, on a myriad of different fronts. But let me just say this, and I 've said this many, many times in the House: any type of actions or progress that take place in respect of acknowl edging residential schools or ' 60s scoop or MMIWG2S,

420 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 6, 2023 anything, any awareness or progress is because of the work of Indigenous people, and, in this case, I want to set the record clear that in this case, it is resi dential school survivors that have brought us to this very moment, not the members opposite and even not on us–this–us on this side of the House. We must not try to take political points for work that we did not do.

The very fact that Indigenous folks survived residential schools and, you know, allowed Canadians, through their courage and deter mination, to understand what happened in resi dential schools, by sharing their experiences of resi dential schools is why we are here in this very moment. The–we are here in this very moment because of the brave Indigenous woman who survived resi dential school who shared her story of her own shirt on her first day of residential school. That's why we're here.

We're not here for anything other than the work, the blood, sweat and tears of Indigenous people that have brought us to this point and that have brought the rest of Canada with them, alongside them, in that courage and in that determination. So I want to make the record explicitly, unequivocally clear, that it is Indigenous people that we should be celebrating in this moment. The Premier (Mr.

Kinew) spoke about, ever so briefly in the second reading of this bill, about the apology, the official apology, that was rendered by Canada, and, you know, the Premier, both in the intro- duction of this bill and today, as well, the Premier asked me to second this motion. And the reason why is because there's a picture of the Premier's father with my cousin, Phil Fontaine, the day of the apology, and I–we know the picture; I 've seen that picture many, many times.

And so I think that it 's quite extra ordinary, all these years later, after that day that t hat picture was taken, after that historic moment of an apology to resi- dential school survivors, that so many years later Manitoba is now–has an NDP government that is led by the first First Nations individual–man as Premier. So many years later, thi s NDP gov ernment appointed the first -ever First Nation women to Cabinet. This NDP gov ernment has the most, in the history of this province, most number of Indigenous MLAs elected to this Chamber, to this House, to this Legislative Assembly.

And I'm honoured to be a part of that history in the smallest way that I am. I think that I am so grateful to all of my relatives and ancestors who came before myself and the rest of us as Indigenous people in this caucus to allow us to be here for this very moment. I hope that Manitobans can understand and can see the significance of this bill and what it means for Manitoba, what it means for that path to recon- ciliation. And I think that it' s something that we can all be proud of.

And I know that, you know, on this side of the House we repeatedly talk about bringing Manitobans together on this path of reconciliation, but also bringing Manitobans together in building a province that we can be proud of and that building a province that is inclusive and equi table and is safe for all Manitobans. And I hope that they can see that this, today, and the Louis Riel bill, in many respects, is the manifestation of us all coming together and working together as a province, working together as a people, working together collectively to bring us on this path to reconciliation.

So, I know that for myself, I am incredibly proud of today. I'm incredibly proud of October 3rd and, of course, and every thing that 's happened since October 3rd and after October 3rd. But I, you know, I would suggest to Manitobans that we can all be proud of that, and that is all of our accomplishments.

And, you know, I think it bears saying officially on Hansard, and I haven't had the opportunity to really get up in the House and spea k to this, but I think it 's important to put on the official record of Hansard that it was only a couple of months ago that, as we were in the midst of a political election Manitobans, including Indigenous peoples, including Indigenous members of this caucus, had to drive around Winnipeg and across the province and see such racist, disrespectful, grotesque messaging, trying to divide us as a province.

I think I–and, again, you know, so much so that it made national news that other juris dictions were talking about what was going on in the Manitoba provincial election and the strategy that the PC Party was under taking, was knowingly under taking, in order to win government, in order to elicit Manitobans for their vote. They went so much–and, you know, there 's a saying, right, like, you know, what you do to win government or what you do to maintain gov ernment or to maintain power is where you see some of the most grotesque actions. * (15:10)

December 6, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 421 And that's what we saw. That's what we saw just a mere couple of months ago, endorsed and doubled down by the PC Party of Manitoba. Folks stood by while there were attacks on members in our caucus – Indigenous members in our caucus, trans members of our caucus. And, you know, some would say, well, that's what you all sign up for. Meh, maybe. Maybe that 's what we sign up for, but I would also submit that we can do things better.

Like, we don't have to, as a province, look to the US and the way that they do politics, which is so harmful and so grotesque, and kind of import that here. We can be better. We can do better. So, yes, maybe we sign up for it as politicians – I would kind of disabuse that. But you know who didn't sign up for that were the women that were murdered by a serial killer , or their families. As if their families didn 't have enough to deal with knowing that their mom, their sister, their cousin, their daughter is sitting in a landfill. Because again, that's how little Indigenous women are considered.

They didn't sign up for that. And yet, the PC Party of Manitoba thought that it was a good strategy and a good thing to, again, import US strategies and to use Indigenous women as political props to try and maintain government and to win votes. But here 's the thing that maybe they didn 't anticipate:

(1) They didn't anticipate that Manitoba is on a path of reconciliation, an d that Manitobans rejected that;

(2) They didn 't anticipate that those women, our sisters, families wouldn' t stand by and allow that to happen. And so while the PC Party of Ma nitoba and members opposite stood by while that strategy was being executed day in and day out on billboards, bus benches, recycling bins, com mercials, wherever. I went to a movie and there was a com mercial at the movie that families would not stand by a nd let that happen and let their loved ones be disrespected in such an inhumane, grotesque way. So much so that their work and their loved ones galvanized Manitobans to change a government.

And so, while there are individuals that may not think much about those women, thankfully we have Manitobans who said no, we reject that. And we know that those women deserve to be respected, that their lives mattered, that their loved ones matter, that their loved ones' work and words that they do in honour of their loved ones matter, and that we, as a province, are going to entrench that rather than–that love, that courage rather than that hate, misogyny, racism, and rejected it. And so much so, that we have a new government here in Manitoba.

And so today, you know, after having tried to introduce this bill several times in the House – two times–two, three times, I'm not sure–and actually having members opposite stand in the House and vote against this bill, that's why I reject when the Leader of the Opposition says that they started this and got the wheels in motion. Members opposite stood in the House. They stood up and they voted against this bill.

And so, you know, I 'm putting folks opposite on notice that when you 're going to try to stake a claim for some thing you rejected, for some thing that you stood up in the House and voted against, you will be called out. And the record will be made known. And again, Manitobans know that that's not true. So all of that to say, that today is a good day. It 's a good day that we 're debating third reading and concurrence of the Orange Shirt Day bill. It 's a good day that all of the residen tial school survivors that (

a) survived and, again, shared them selves and that led to this moment, this is in honour of them. This bill is in honour of them; this work is in honour of them. And it 's in honour of all the little ones that–in unmarked graves across the country, it's in honour of them. But it's also, in my mind, it's in honour of all the little ones that are in schools now. Everybody, all little Manitobans, who I'm sure, you know–those of us that go and visit our schools and, I mean, I 'm invited all the time to schools all over Manitoba who want to show me as an Indigenous woman, as an Indigenous MLA in this Chamber.

They're always so proud of the work that they're doing in their schools. And every school that I've gone to, they do really phenomenal, thoughtful, loving, caring work, projects to set the record straight. And so today is also about that next genera tion, that next genera tion and the educators that are supporting that next genera tion to dismantle colonization, to dismantle history –in- accurate history and are an active part of making this province all that it can be and certainly making Canada all that it ca n be.

And so I want to acknowl - edge all of those little ones and their educators that do that phenomenal work.

422 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 6, 2023 I love visiting our schools. Most people know that I really do prioritize visiting our schools and just spending time with our little ones, beca use this next generation is absolutely phenomenal. And the things that they know, and the things that they say and the things that they're doing is so joyful and gives me such hope for the future. So I dedicate this to them as well. I want to just take a moment to acknowledge my– our colleague, the member for Keewatinook (Mr.

Bushie), who brought forward this bill several times and actually, I think it was under his name that the members opposite rose in this House and voted against that. I know that t he member did a lot of work trying to help get this bill passed, including meeting with our communities, meeting and speaking with so many people on this bill. And so I want to recognize the work and the labour that he put into this bill. Again, this is a team effort, right? Inside this –in this–inside this building, and certainly, outside this building. So I want to acknowledge him for that work.

And then I want to acknowl edge the Premier (Mr. Kinew). I think–I can 't remember exactly when this was, and maybe some folks on the other side or the Clerk might remember –I believe it was, like, in 2016, he brought forward a resolu tion–don't know if it was a reso lution on Orange Shirt Day; I can 't remember. But he brought forward that, and it received unan imous consent. And then the bill, unanimous consent. And we had Ted Fontaine in here and we got everything done within an afternoon. And so I want to acknowledge that work as well.

I'm pretty sure I just got that wrong, but–was it a resolution, or–what was the Ted Fontaine? Yes, I can't remember. At any rate, got some thing wrong there. But I still want to acknowledge the work that was done there. I'm not going to take too much time. I just, once again, want to reiterate that anything good that happens on this path to reconciliation, that acknowl- edgment and that celebration solely belongs to Indigenous peoples.

And in parti cular, in respect to this bill, solely belongs to our relatives, our grandmothers, our grandfathers, our moms, our dads, our si sters, our uncles, our aunties; everybody that survived residential schools. Because none of us, the Indigenous members in this Chamber, in the gov ern- ment, we wouldn't be here had they not survived. * (15:20) And that 's a testament to Indigenous people 's resiliency and strength. And so I say miigwech to each and every one of them.

I say how proud and honoured I am to work and to stand with everyone in our caucus and, on this day in particular, our Indigenous members of our caucus which, again, is one of the highest numbers of Indigenous peoples, I believe, across Canada, I'm not sure. But I think we could probably submit one of the highest levels of Indigenous caucus members in any legislature across the country. That is something extraordinary. And miigwech. Hon. Ian Bushie (Minister of Municipal and Northern Relations): Thank you, Hon ourable Speaker, for the oppor tunity to share a few words about Orange Shirt Day.

I had spoken to this many times, both in this Chamber, in this building, but more im portantly I've spoken out in the com munities, I 've spoken out to people from all walks of life. And as Indigenous people, one of the things that we believe in sometimes, or many times, is that things will always work itself out. Things were always meant to be the way they 're meant to be. So the fact that we have brought this legis lation forward a couple of different times before and had the discussions and had it delayed, had it voted down, was also a sign of the way it was meant to be. So it furthered discussion.

It warranted more discussion. It engaged more discussion from not just Indigenous people, not just people going to school, people in uni- versity or high school or in the workforce, but across all of Manitoba and across all of Canada, and for that matter across the entire world. There were a lot of people watching what transpired here in Canada. Not so much during the residential school era, but after the fact. Because nobody wanted to acknowl edge, nobody wanted to discuss, nobody wanted to reflect on what was happening in the moment in the resi dential school system, in the residential school era.

But we are now. And it 's unfor tunate, though, that it's come to the fact that it 's been on the strength and resilience of Indigeno us survivors and inter - generational survivors of the residential school system that we 're having this discussion. And I say unfor - tunate in the way that society in general should have realized it at the time. It should never have happened. It should have been something that we deemed in the moment to be a cultural genocide, which it was.

December 6, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 423 And those are words that many don't want to use to acknowledge that. And it was quite simple, and the common theme, while there was many individual lived experiences that came along with that residential school era, the common theme was to kill the Indian in the child, to take away your language, to take away your culture.

And if you can relate that to society today, just imagine somebody coming to your home or your community and taking your children and putting them in school and not allowing them to speak the language that you know, that your people know, that your culture know. Not allowed to speak that language, not allowed to practice their culture for fear of getting beaten, for fear of getting killed. And where in society would that ever have been deemed acceptable? And in our Canadian history, there was a point in time where that was deemed acceptable. And so here we are today, thinking back.

And some folks want to be able to just kind of turn the page, let 's forget about that, let 's stop talking about that. And while that is a part of history in Canada, it is a terrible part of history, we still need to discuss it and have those con versations about it still being our history. And it's important that we have those con versa- tions and we never cease to have those conversations, Honourable Speaker, or we 'll never learn. We 'll always be–and I forget the terminology or the phrase about, you know, if we don't reflect on history, we're doomed to repeat it.

But the fact of the matter is, as an Indigenous person, I firmly believe that you die twice in your lifetime or in your existence: one when you physically leave this world and one, again, when the last person ever speaks your name or ever speaks of you.

And it's important for us to never, ever lose sight and lose connection to the people that were affected and the people that we lost because of resi dential school system, because, quite simply, Honour able Speaker, the students and the Indigenous people that died in residential school and as a result of residential school system, they may never and ever –and will never have the chance to have their family trees fulfilled to where we are today. I 'm here because of the resilience of those students.

I 'm here because of the perseverance and the strength of those students, and I 'm able to stand in this building here today because of that resilience and that strength. So there's things, you know, to acknowl edge it, and I do sincerely want to acknowl edge Phyllis Webstad for just the symbolism of the orange shirt and what that means for us today. But it 's so much more than that as well. It was a catalyst to bring us to where we are today, and it –you t alk–we talk about many things that the TRC Calls to Action–and being able to, as society, check off certain aspects of what we' ve done.

And in the big picture, we haven 't really done anything. We've done things along the journey to say we've checked that b ox and we've–okay, we can call this all–let's cross it off the list. But the fact of the matter is it's still something we have to live each and every day.

If I could, and I was going to clarify with the Clerk earlier, if I could table a book and actual ly have the entire book put into Hansard–I don't know if that's possible, but if I could, I would table the book of Ted Fontaine so that it could be in this building, in this history, and when somebody realized that, they could read that and realize that the dark–the title of the book is even The Dark Legacy of Indian Resi dential Schools.

So being able to have folks acknowledge and read that history, because Ted is no longer physically with us anymore, but his story and his lived experience needs to be told time and time again so we never forget that experience. And, Honourable Speaker, there's many aspects. We stood in here, and I thank members opposite –or members opposite that were here at the time, when we talked about an apology from the Pope and we raised that as an opposition day motion that day and received unanimous support in this Chamber to call upon for the Pope to potentially deliver that apology here in Manitoba.

It passed at our level here, but it never came to be. And why that was important is in that motion at the time, I stood and I spoke of my uncle. I spoke of my Uncle Alec. My Uncle Alec has passed away a couple of years ago now, but he was a product of the system, as well, including to the point where he was almost admitted to be a part of the seminary. But out of his expe - riences, that 's not some thing he wanted to do, not something he chose to do. And out of this, and I 've shared this with his family, and he was my uncle, but he was one of my best friends as well. And he was an alcoholic.

He was an alcoholic that drank each and every day, Honourable Speaker, because of what had happened to him in his experiences. And for us in our community, we have the Catholic Church kind of a central part of our community, and my family and our homes are little–kind of, in and around the church, and

424 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 6, 2023 my uncle lived kind of at the end of the driveway of the church, and each and every winter, each and every season–we don't have church each and every day; we would have church maybe once a week, sometimes, maybe not even. But my uncle would always be the one to go there and shovel the steps. He would make sure that the lights were on. He 'd make sure that every thing was cleaned. Even though the effects of residential school and what t he church had done to him, he had done that; he had done that for his entire adult life while he lived in that house.

And, Honour able Speaker, I was extremely offended and so was my entire family when my uncle who, when he was sick and he was dying and he was on his deathbed, had asked for last rites. He had asked for the Father at the church to come and deliver last rites because he wasn't able to go out and go to church himself. And he was told no.

He was told no because the Father said he was an alcoholic. * (15:30) So those were just the long –and that 's just one example of the long-lasting effects in my own family, but in my community, and those are stories and lived experiences that people need to know, people need to hear. And elders and survivors of the residential school system were asked time and time again to relive those experiences, to relive those memories, whether it be for a monetary gain or whether it be to prove to somebody that it happened for them to be told that it was believable.

And I've heard many from elders in my com mu- nity, and I'm not going to speak their names because that's for their families to do. But I will share two of their experiences, Honourable Speaker. One elder in my community, when he was–I think he was in his 70s when he told me the story, and he said–he just sat down, we were just kind of chatting away and then just out of the blue he says, you know what happened to me? And he says, when I was in school, he says, when I wet the bed, they clamped my privates so I would never do that again.

And he just, honestly, Honourable Speaker, just nonchalantly told me that, you know, and just –you just need to know; that was the response to that. Because that 's why he told me; he said, you just need to know. He sa id, I've told maybe a couple other people, but you need to know. And it was just–it just floored me. I had no idea that that was a possibility, and where is that acceptable in society ever? It's not, and it should never, ever be.

I had the opportunity in the Chamber here to share a member's statement on one of the elders in one of my com munities, Charlie Bittern, who was a front-runner for the –to run the torch into Winnipeg, and when he shared his story to us, and there's actually a docu mentary on him and I encourage everybody here to look at it; I believe it 's on CBC, I think it is, where he shared his experiences and his story and his lived example of what the resi dential school system did for him. He was very athletic. He was an incredible athlete who would run and run and run marathons; he 'd run whatever.

So in his experience at school, he was used to track down others that ran away from school. And that was what they used him for and that 's what they used his purpose for, was to track down students that ran away from school to avoid this exper ience that was happening, and to bring them back for punishment or receive punishment himself. And, Honourable Speaker, those are experiences that when I hear those, it 's unacceptable. So it brings back the importance of Orange Shirt Day, the recog- nition, the conversations that need to happen.

And I'll share one more personal ex perience that I had –or personal conver sation that I had with a survivor of the resi dential school as we ll. And he spoke about going to school, day in, day out, being at the school and then some days his friends just weren't there anymore, you know? And they know–they know what happened. They were killed, just straight out. He says, you know, he was there, he had an accident and he wasn't there anymore. And his accident wasn't a doing of his own; it was an accident brought ' abround' by the actions of the school and the residential school system.

And again, he just –it was no big deal. He just wasn't ther e anymore the next day. And there was multiple stories of that same instance happening. So, when we were awoken as a society by the– and I 'm going to air quote the term discovery in Kamloops; it was not a discovery. Our people, as Indigenous people, knew. They knew what was there. They were just not listened to, not heard–it didn 't matter. So there was no discovery. So when you hear and you talk to com munity members and survivors and intergenerationally

December 6, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 425 impacted family members of resi dential school survivors and victims, when they talk about discoveries, they 're not discoveries; they 're just disclosures that are happening that nobody wanted to ever hear before. And Honourable Speaker, it's important that these discussions go on, on a regular basis, and that we keep on continuing–have this discussion, because now we get into other genera tions of society that want to be able to engage. I think it was two years ago I got a call from Strathnaver School, and the member from St.

James, now the Finance Minister, had also got that call about Strathnaver School. They wanted to know, because we were talking about Orange Shirt Day here in the Chamber, so they wanted to know what it was about. So I reached out to an elder in my community; we had a little mini star blanket made in orange and white, and me and the member from St. James went to Strathnaver School. Not in my con stituency; not in his constituency , either. And that's where it didn't matter. It was about engaging the young people from all pa rts of society. So–and we're talking about a school just in, kind of in the St. James area.

They had no Indigenous students in that class we were talking to, but they wanted to know. They wanted to know what Orange Shirt Day was. They wanted to know what t hat meant, what brought that on. And, Honour able Speaker, that 's why the im - portance of having this made into a statutory holiday is so im portant: so those conver sations can be had.

And I'm fairly confident–maybe not all, but there was a portion of that–of those students –that went home and shared that ex perience with their families, that even their families, being adults or grandparents, may never have heard, because they did not –they didn 't have that ability to hear that or experience that. So it's important that we have those con versations back and forth.

And we've had, many times, to be able to walk here in parts of the city, or walk in various com mu- nities, walk in various areas or munici palities or townships or First Nations here in Manitoba, on Orange Shirt Day, on September the 30th, and you– the best conversation you'll have is with the survivors that may be with you, the intergenerational impact, the families that may be with you, but also the children that are there. And I remember a conversation. I was just, kind of, walking.

We came from The Forks and we were walking Portage and Main, and a –I think it was five or six kids come running up and asked my name. And–I'm not going to say my name, but ask if I was who I am–and I said yes. And they said, we love what you're doing. We know what this is for. But you know what, my dad can't be here; and one other girl said, my mom can't be here because she had to go to work. But we're still going to talk to her when we get home. We're going to talk to them when we get home. But we should be able to have that ability.

And I know at the time when we had discussions, members opposite were hung up on the word holiday, in terms of it being a day off. And quite honestly, if that's how members of society are going to look at that, that's on us to educate and try and change that narrative. But it's not a day off; it's not a holiday. It's a time to reflect. It's a time to discuss. But it's a time to do what you want, because if you have the o pportunity on that day to sit with your family and talk about Orange Shirt Day or talk about anything you like, don't take for granted that you are– have that ability.

You have that ability to talk to your young people, because if this happened decades a go, your young people may have been taken off to school, and imagine that. Imagine not being able to have that ability to have those conversations go forward. So it's important that we continue to have those discussions and moving forward on Orange Shirt Day as a statutory holiday. As I said, it was meant to be; it was meant to be prolonged the way it was. And it was difficult.

It was difficult to sit there and watch sometimes, and watch sometimes the tokenism that was given to that, because we brought forth Orange Shirt Day as a statutory holiday, and it was voted down by members opposite. And I know members opposite –some are here, some aren 't here. But just imagine –[interjection] Oh, I'm sorry. I meant in terms of retired and–sorry, I apologize. I did not mean that. I apologize in that way. But the members opposite, when it was time to vote on making Orange Shirt Day a statutory holiday, stood in the Chamber in their orange shirts and voted that down.

Imagine the message that that sent to Indigenous people, let alone to society, to say yes, this is important. I am wearing this for a purpose, I am wearing this for a reason–to a point; then it's not going to matter. * (15:40)

426 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 6, 2023 So I hope members opposite, this time around, this is a unanimous discuss ion, a unanimous vote to be able to do this. And not just a political thing to bounce back and forth to say we're hitting a buzzword and we're–I have this orange shirt, and I 'm doing my part to advance recon ciliation here in the province, because there's much more to do. Honourable Speaker, when we had the privilege of–or we have the privilege of forming government, it was just a couple days after September 30, after Orange Shirt Day here in Manitoba.

And I remember walking into the Canada Life Centre , and it was packed in there; was packed with orange shirts, it was packed with the sound of the drum. And we made a commit ment there that if we formed gov ernment, we would make Orange Shirt Day a statutory holiday here in Manitoba so that everybody wo uld have the oppor tunity, no matter where they work, no matter what they did, would have that op portunity to spend it with their family. To educate themselves and educate their family and keep those discussions going on what this meant.

So we had t he privilege, on October the 3rd, of forming gov ernment, because they heard many messages from us, but that was one message that was resonating loud and clear, is that this was a need. Indigenous priorities, Indigenous needs are a priority here in Manitoba. And there was some divisiveness, and there was a lot of rhetoric back and forth in terms of a campaign to try and divide. But Manitobans –and not just Indigenous Manitobans, Manitobans in general want to see that unification, want to see that united Manitoba. So that's what they did. They voted for that unity.

They voted for that cohesiveness that we have to have across all of society. And I had the honour, Honourable Speaker, when we had our Throne speech here in Chamber, I was asked about guests. And my first guest, my first top - mind guest was my own daughter, that I wanted her to be as part of my Speaker 's guests in the loge, sitting right across from here. And she 's, you know, a teenager. So, I mean, some of the things that were going on here, she was a little bit overwhelmed by.

There was a lot of folks in the building, lot of faces on both sides that she may have recognized in the media over the course of the election campaign. So it was a little intimidating to say is this so -and-so, is that so -and-so, and I was telling–yes, this is this. And Honour able Speaker, I appreciate the fact that you welcomed her into your office, as well. But she sat over there, and the first thing–so I spoke to her after. We were making eye contact across the way pretty regularly, and the first thing she experienced when people entered the Chamber was the drum and hearing the drum here in the Chamber.

And it–you could see the impact that it had on her. I'm watching her, and you could see the engage ment and the impact it had. And then, through the course of the Throne Speech, obviously there's–as a teenager, she lost some interest in some of the things that were going on until it got to the point where it was recognizing about Orange Shirt Day, and then you see that spark once again. So I asked her later, I said what did you think? I said, there was some times where you looked bored in what was going on.

And we talked about the drum, and we talked about Orange Shirt Day and how that impacted and how that reflected. And there was also lot of Indigenous leadership, Indigenous members here in the Chamber on that day. And again, a significant impact that we felt throughout that day to be able to bring that forward and to know that this was something that was so close to the finish line to be able to do. And we 're–because it happened just before elections, we're still, you know, another 10, 12 months away from the next official Orange Shirt Day. But those conversations happen so much in between.

It 's more than just one day. And I know sometimes we–members opposite got hung up on that word, holiday, and that it should be more than just a day. And I absolutely agree. It 's not reflected as a holiday of a day off to go out and, I think it was mentioned to go close up your cabins, and to do whatever you're going to do. It's a day to remember, a day to have discussions. But it's also a day so much in between. And as the Premier (Mr.

Kinew) had mentioned in one of the opportunities that he had to speak to this, he talked about how, in leading up to it, leading up to the week –the week prior to–schools will have a number of events in their school. And even following that, schools will have a number of events. But it 's excitement. Through the course of the entire summer, and albeit we were in election mode

December 6, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 427 during that time, but there was a lot of talk about September 30th. Having those conversations in June, July and August about what it 's going to look like. Where were we going to be? Where's the best place to be to have conversations? Where's the best place to be to gather as one? And the answer today or the answer going to be, going into the next Orange Shirt Day, is we gather as one across the entire province of Manitoba. Because you have that ability to do that. We will have the ability to do that.

No matter where you work, no matter where you reside, no matter where you go to school, you'll have the ability to do that. So, Honourable Speaker, I was privileged to be able to speak to this many times in the past, privileged in this House to speak to it, but I will say, all due respect to this Chamber, more privileged to have those conversations out in the community, with the families that were directly affected by this, to say, how can we help.

When you refer to intergenerational impact – because there's going to come a day where the last survivor of a residential school is no longer with us in this physical world. But we have to be able to have those discussions going forward and always remember that. And always remember the ones that will not have that family legacy, because their family trees were eliminated, were annihilated, were killed. So it's important that we carry on that con versa- tion, that legacy, because it is a lived ex perience for all of us here in society, and it 's something that we should never ever forget.

So, bringing forth Orange Shirt Day as a statutory holiday here in Manitoba will allow that conversation to always continue. It won 't allow society to forget. It won't allow society to, quote-unquote, move on. But we are going to use it to move forward. My colleague, the member from St. Johns, spoke to blood, sweat and tears, and that 's literally what it was. Literally, they bled. Literally, they sweat and literally, those tears –and those tears are still continuing to this day. So I encourage members in my last little bit here. I spoke about tabling the book of Theodore or Ted Fontaine, tabling his book.

And I encourage members opposite to read it and to–it's an experience. It's a lived ex perience of a person who survived that system. And it talks about how it impacted him, how it impacted him emotionally, physically, and what that meant to him and what that did to him, and what that attempted to do to him. And then it speaks to the resilience of where he comes to be able to share that lived ex perience. And I don't use it in terms of sharing his story, sharing his lived experience, because that's what that was for him. And he had the ability, he had the courage, he had the determination to put that into words.

And there 's many that didn 't. My own family, my own elders in my com munity, sometimes did not want to share their–and I shared some of the stories that were there, some of the lived experiences that were there. But some did not want to speak of that, because they felt they were going to protect us. I don't want my son, my daughter, my grandkids, to be able to know what I went through. I don' t want them to ever see that, ex perience that, have to potentially know what their grandparents went through or their aunts or their uncles went through.

So they want to be able to have those experiences go forward and say, this is what we want to do. So we encouraged our survivors to share their stories but not to exploit their stories. To share their lived experience because that's what they wanted to do, and they realize the importance of doing that. Because, Mr. Honourable Speaker, when we talk about Orange Shirt Day, orange–the orange shirt is a symbol of that resilience, is a symbol of that perseverance, is a symbol of that determination to not let our culture 's Indigenous people be killed, to be eliminated, to be exterminated.

Because that 's what that system was meant to do. That system was meant to, again, kill the Indian in the child. And that's some- thing that survivors speak of time and time again. * (15:50) Then they speak of their perseverance, their dedi- cation and their strength. And when I say they speak of their strength, they 're very humble in speaking about that. But it's something that I know, and I know members opposite and every member in this Chamber know, that that exper ience and that strength of Indigenous people and Indigenous survivors of the residential school system is why we 're here today.

Is why I'm able to stand in a Chamber that, honestly, was never meant for Indigenous people. But here we are today, being able to speak to these lived experiences, being able to speak to the incidents of residential school and being t o acknowledge and lift up our survivors and know that those

428 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 6, 2023 intergenerational impacted components of residential school system did not work. They did not eliminate; they did not kill the Indian in child. Thank you, Mr. Honourable Speaker. MLA Billie Cross (Seine River): I'm very proud to rise and say a few words about this bill. I was an Indigenous educator up until June 30. And so I have a unique perspective that I think I can share with folks, things that I saw, things that I learned, my own lived experiences. And so I learned about residential schools in uni- versity, at 38 years old, in 2010.

And my own grandmother was a resi dential school survivor. That happens because these are truths people don' t talk about, or didn' t talk about to prot ect their family members. I remember sitting in my first English class and having to read an

article written by the now -Senator Murray Sinclair, talking about the resi dential school system in full detail. And I had to write a response to this. And I re member leaving class that night and thinking, how did I not understand this? But then also connecting the dots to my own grandmother's story, to our own family's story. I phoned my mom on the way home and I said, have you ever heard of the residential school system? And she's like, no, I have no idea what you 're talking about. And so I explained it to her.

Through tears and, you know, a lengthy conversation that went long into the night, we put the pieces together that this was an experience that our family went through, that caused my grandmother to live on a trapline and not be able to read and write and experience so much trauma and marginalization in her life. I was fortunate to go to uni versity and be in a program that was Indigenous-based. And so, coming out of that as a teacher, I had this knowledge and this experience. So I–first I want to address something that I think it's important to say.

One of the Calls to Action of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission was to create a federal statutory holiday of com memoration to acknowledge those affected by residential schools and to educate Canadians. Well, I take offence to the word schools. These were not schools; these were in stitutions. And I say that because this wasn 't an optional place to attend; you didn't get to pick the school you went to. You didn't get to choose the classes you wanted to take. You didn't get to go home at the end of the day and be with your family and share your experiences.

These were institutions that jailed children in this country, and for a very specific reason. Over 100,000 children in Canada attended resi - dential schools. We know that there are thousands of children in unmarked graves across the country that have yet to be found. It 's ex tremely difficult to talk about those children without also acknowl edging those families or the reasons that those children were taken away to these institutions.

You know, we look at the founding of Canada, and for so long our textbooks and the message spewed out by our government was that this was a place that was discovered, that European explorers came here and discovered this great country, and that thankfully they did this, because we have this wonderful life that we all live today. However, if you talk to Indigenous people, this wasn't a discovery, this was a disruption. And these explorers were not explorers; they were exploiters who came to take some thing, not to give. They were looking for resources.

They were looking for more land to colonize, and what better way to do it than by utilizing a papal bull called the Doctrine of Discovery from 1493. That papal bull was created 530 years ago, and it was only last summer that the Pope himself apologized and said that that is not the beliefs of his church.

You know, this was developed, and for those of you who don't what the Doctrine of Discovery was, you know, just to paraphrase it very quickly, this was something that was–I'll explain it like this: that if you go to a land that 's not inhabite d by people who are Catholics, then that land must be empty because the people living there are not humans; therefore, they must be animals and so that land is empty and for the taking, and it is our God- given right to go there and settle and make a life there.

Now, we know that that 's not –you know, that 's obviously what happened, and we know that Indigenous people definitely were not animals. These were people who were our earliest scientists, our earliest biologists, our earliest storytellers. They understood the seasons. They understood the land; they knew how to live on it and prosper and live in a really good way. Now, they did this because of the strength of their com munities, the strength of their families.

December 6, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 429 And so when we think about Bill 4, we need to think about the strength of those families. If you look at the–you know, pre-contact life, communities were centred around children. Children were the centre of the world. Everybody in that community had a respon- sibility to the children living there. Even though I may have given birth to a child in that com munity, any woman in that community could be my child's mother, and they took on that role. Any male in that com mu- nity took on the role of being a father.

Grandparents, they were grandparents to everyone in that com mu- nity. Now, I want you to imagine a com munity where children are at the centre and you 're surrounded then by the women, the men, the grandparents and finally the most caring people who were the protectors of the community. What is the easiest way that you can destroy a com munity's strength? Well, you take the children from that community.

And when you take the children; I want everyone to imagine for a moment, imagine a holiday where you're all sitting around your house and you've got your cousins and your brothers and your sisters and everybody there, kids are playing, kids are laughing. Imagine a community where all the children are taken away. Where 's the laughter? Where' s the joy? Where's the purpose? People stopped living because that was taken from them. We think about the children; we should always consider the children who went to these schools. But we often forget abou

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Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	43-1-13
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	43rd 1st hansardpdf 13.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	2a2a49e4b07abb23aba2b196d3a6e3bbe8aa838b

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