VOL. 2 PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD: 3:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.m. MONDAY, MAY 5, 1980 NO. 35

May 5, 1980, Tape 1295, Page 2 -- apb MR. NEARY: I have so many things in front of me - and I did not know I' was going to speak in the Budget Debate today, by the way, I left all my notes horne. I was rushed in at the - SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh~ MR. NEARY: No, I do not intend to do that, I would like to end up my few remarks today, but I just want to show bon. gentlemen - there is a whole list I have not even touched yet. I know I will be accused of rambling all over the countryside talking about world conditions and this, but they have been related and I can relate them to Newfoundland.

I just want to end up with the line that I started on, Sir. The government says that this is a live within your means budget. I would say that it is a starve the people budget. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear~ MR. SPEAKER ( S iroms) : Burgee - Bay d'Espoir. SOl1E HON. MEMBERS : The bon. the member for Hear, hear! MR. ANDREWS: Mr. Speaker, it is very close to six o'clock and I probably have a few moments. In reply to the hon. member - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Call it six o'clock. MR. ANDREWS: In that case, Mr. Speaker, I move that we adjourn the debate for today. MR. ROBERTS: Well said. MR.

SPEAKER: The han. the President of the Council. MR ·. MARSHAI.L: Mr. Speaker, before moving the adjournment of the House I should like to advise that ~~e Resources Committee will meet at 7:30 p.m. in the collective bargaining room. The estimates under consideration will be the Department of Industrial Development. 3422

May 5, 1980, Tape 1295, Page 3 -- apb MR. MARSHALL: And at 7:30 p.m. also, Social Services will meet at the C()lonial Building and Consumer Affairs and the Environlilent will be the estimates under consideration. Tomorrow, Mr. Speaker, we will be bringing in the flag debate for the great indepth consideration and ultimate free vote by all membez's. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, I move that the House at is rising adjourn until tomorrow, Tuesday at 3:00 p.m. and that this House do now adjourn. On motion, the House at its rising adjourned until tomorrow, Tuesday, May 6, 1980 at 3:00 p.m. 3423

1·L'iy 5,1980 The House met at 3:00p.m. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER: (Simms} Tape No. 1257 Order please! STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Fisheries. AH-1 MR. MORGAN: Mr.Speaker, I wish to inform the House of some recent developments as it pertains to the Northern cod stocks and the effect that these changes, recent changes,will have on the fishery in our Prov~nce,which I .view as a very serious situation. Mr.

Speaker, on monitoring the non­ Newfoundland-based trawler activity in the Northern cod fishery 1 it has been revealed that a significant number of Mainland based trawlers have diverted from their fishing grounds to the Northern cod stock off the East Coast of the Province. They have diverted from ~~e Nova Scotian shelf to the Northern cod stocks in the last two week period.

A quota report received by my department from the Federal Department of Fisheries as of this morning,and confirmation information I received on Friday afternoon,indicates a Mainland catch of 4,801 metric tons of Northern cod has been caught and landed in Nova Scotia. Now that was as of May 1st " of this year. Industry sources have confirmed that if the present fishing pattern continues with its diversion of the Nova Scotian fleet,the Northern cod quota for trawlers will be reached within the next week or so.

In fact,the Federal authorities indicated this morning that they feel that if the present pattern is allowed to continue, the total quota of Northern cod will be caught in a three week period. The Province's position on this issue, Mr. Speaker, was outlined by the Hon. the Premier on December 4,1979 in this hen. House and also at a seminar that was held in Corner Brook on the Northern cod issue. The essence of our policy as a Province on the Northern cod is:

(1) Northern cod must be reserved to inshore and middle distance effort to the extent it can be harvested by that effort. 332~

--- - - May 5,19eo Ta pe No. 12 57 t\E -2 MR. MORGAN:

(2) Where, within the total allowable catch a surplus to inshore effort can be clearly shown to exist, it must be reserved to offshore effort landing into Newfoundland ports for distribution to the processing plants which now operate on a seasonal basis. Mr. Speaker, the Newfoundland government is totally opposed to the harvesting of Northern cod stocks by non­ Newfoundland-based trawl :ers. The Province stands firm on its position and views with some alarm the continued presence of Mainland-based vessels in the Northern cod fishery, a fishery in which they have no historical presence.

They have had none in the past. In addition to the loss of jobs,which in itself we can i11-afford in this Province, an equally serious implication is for the fishing pattern of the Newfoundland deep-sea fleet for the remainder of the year. 3325

liay 5, 1980 Tape 1258 EC - l MR. J. MORG&-. : We understand, Mr. Speaker, that the main reason for the diversion from the Scotian Shelf and the Southern Banks was as a result of the depressed market for redfish fer which ~e vessels from Nova Scotia were fishing. As a result of the depressed market for redfish, the vessels have new diverted to pursue the Northern cod fishery. Mr. Speaker, we cannot accept a situation where there is a real possibility of year-round fish plants in Newfoundland having to close down before the end of this year because of this di?ersion of mainland trawler effort.

The plants that would be affected, Mr. Speaker, as confirmed by the Fish Trades Association in a lengthy telegram to me on Friday past, points out that the plants could very well close if the quota is taken in the next two or three weeks in the Northern cod which is now supplying all of the raw material to the existing plants in the Province at Grand Bank, at Fortune, at Burin, at ~stcwn, at Trepassey, st. John's and Catalina. In other words, the Fish Trades of Newfoundland have confirmed to me, Mr.

Speaker, on Friday past that if the Northern cod quota is taken in the next two or three week period, and because now that raw material for these plants is coming from that stock, the Northern cod stock to supply all these pl .ants, it could very well mean the closing of these plants. And they pointed out it means the possible layoff of 5, 000 plant employees and lack of work for, in this case,l,~OO deep sea fishermen. So, Mr. Speaker, in view of this situation, I have today contacted the oajor mainland companies concerned. These are, in this case, H. B.

Nickerson and Sons of Halifax, Nova Scotia and National Sea Products Limited of Nova Scotia. We have requested these two companies tc immediately withdraw the vessels from the area known as the Northern cod, which is 2J JKL areas, the ICNAF areas,and we have also asked the senior officials of theae two companies to come to St. John's for an urgent meeting to discuss the matter. But our first request is to have these companies withdraw the vessels, the trawler fleet, from the area. Now, Mr. Speaker, to elaborate a bit on the situation, as of approximately two months ago, in monttorinq the situation 3326

~ 3, 1980 Tape 1258 EC - 2 MR. J, MO,R\SAN: of th~ Northern cod, it was found out than that there was little or no ac .tivity being c:a:rried out by the mainland fi.i:ms in the Northern cod area, to the point where only a little mona than 700 tons had l;leen cauqht by the mainland fims and landed in No'la Scotia, Becauee of the depression of the redfish market, they feel that it is more luera.tive 3327

~ay 5, 1980 Tape No. 1259 SD - l MR. MORGAN: for them to fish for cod,and they have now diverted ~~irteen large wet fish trawlers from the Scotian Bank and the Scotian Shelf and from the St. l'ierre Bank and areas .,here they normall:,· fish,to the 2J 3KL ICNAF areas,which is Northern cod stocks. And as a result of that,as pointed out by the Fish Trades Association,within the next two or three week period they feel that 1 with our own Newfoundland trawler fleet and a fleet from Nova Scotia, they will take approximately 5,000 metric tons of cod per week.

And they have already taken 31,000 metric tons total to date,which means in a two or three week period the Northern cod stocks w6uld have reached its established quota of 45,000 metric tons and therefore no further supply of fish for the plants I mentioned earlier. Mr. Speaker, I want to also outline to the House the content of the telegram now sent to the two companies, National Sea Products Limited of Halifax and H. s. Nickerson and Sons Limited really North Sydney, Nova Scotia is their headquarters.

"I am advised of a significant number of your trawlers based on ~'le ~ainland have been diverted from their traditional fishing grounds ~o Northern cod stocks off the East Coast of Newfoundland and Labrador. The May lst quota report received from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans shows a Maritimes catch of 4,80]. metric tons of Northe= cod up to May 1st, 1980. Industry sources have also confirmed that the Northern cod quota for trawlers over sixty-five feet will be reached within a week or so if the present fishing pattern continues.

The Newfoundland Government is totally opposed to the harvesting of Northern cod by mainland-based trawlers,as was outlL~ed in the Premier's statement to the House on December 4t.'l, 1979 and in the Newfoundland Government's position paper on the harvesting of Northern cod at the Corner Brook seminar last August. And given our position on t.'lis important matter 1 we view with alarm and concern the diversion effort of mainland-based vessels to the Northern cod stocks. This diversion litas very serious implications for the Newfoundland deep sea fleet for the remainder of the year.

We understand year diversion from the 3328

!o'.;ay 5, 1930 Ta?e No . 1259 so - 2 MR . J . :·\ORGA.~ : Scotia."l She lf and Sou"thern Banks is as a result of tile depressed marke~ condi t.ions fer =edfish and a r:o re favourable ret.urn of the :iorthe=n cod fishery . we can not accept a situation where there is a real possibility of year -round fish plar.ts in New~oundland having to close down before the end of this year, L"l !act , a strong possibility, acc:ordi."lg to the Fish Trades to close do1om wit.'tin a month or a month and a half if there is no more supply of raw material. The plants tiult will be aff ecte d extend =rq:n Bcrgeo to Cat:alina ." ~d the closing paragraph L"l the telegram 3329 .,

... May 5,1980 Tape No. 1260 EL - 1 MR. J. MORGAN: to these two companie~ ~In view of the Province's policies and opposition to this activity, I hereby request that you withdraw your vessels from this fishery immediately. Secondly, I wish to meet with you here in Newfoundland on an urgent basis to discuss this matter in detail. An immediate response would be appreciated~' So, Mr.

Speaker, this is the situation as it presently exists and these_are telexes read into the record of the House of Assembly putting forward our position to the two companies concerned in Nova Scotia asking them to withdraw this activity immediately. Mr. Speaker, I will now table the state~ent and also the telegram going to the companies concerned. SOME liON • MEMBERS : Hear, hear. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : The hen. the member for Burin - Placentia West. MR. D. HOLLETT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I must say that we all view this set of circumstances with great alarm.

In the minister's statement he refers to significant n~bers of mainland trawlers and then he was direct in relation to the number Before I get into specifics 1 just a general comment, Mr.Speaker, is that I think this points out how vulnerable we are in the fisheries in the total sense. The minister is quite correct in saying that this particular year i~ the greatest number of mainland large stern trawlers ever fished the Northern cod. I think we all expressed our opinions on that directly and indirectly in relation to the member from Burgee -Bay d'Espoir's (B. Andrews) private Members Resolution some t!me age.

But it also points out something else, that when large fish cempanies from anywhere in the world in this case Nova Scotia, and I a111 speaking specifically to the plant in st.John's,when they put in large trawlers, when they explore the grounds, when they have all the communications, when they know when and where to fish, this, of course, 3330

~ay S, 199 0 Tape No. 1260 EL - 2 MR. D. HOLLETT: 90!!.s thro1lCjh the colllpanies' total network which encourages other boats to fish in that area. The fact is, Mr. Speaker, that if this is allowed to continue, it is not just that the trawlers will be out of a quota but also, I suspect, as we said before , that the near offshore and inshore fishermen in that particul!lr region of our coastline are going to suffer b~y as we~l.

There is another problem, and maybe a seried of problems, that we have to address oursleves to also and that is,assuming that somebody could say today, I Every Nova Scotia-based trawler 1 pull out of the Northern waters," I think we would all sup~ that. ·But then they would leave there and fish their way South. Maybe the sto<*s on the Grand Banl>a wauld be depleted prior to the normal time. They would move further east and go back to the Scotia shelf. And, Mr.

Speake ·r, I am not so sure that with the stringent quotas that are on the Scotia she~f and the Gulf right now, that it is not part of those companies• plan and policy to cOlliE' 3331

:1ay 5 . 1980 Tape No .. 1261 DW - 1 MR. D. HOLLETT : into the Northern cod 1get as much as they can out of that first,and therefore reserve the quotas in their own backyard for themselves later on where a lot of our fishermen do not have expertise. That is something we have to watch ou~ for. The other point is, Mr. Speaker, that I do not,and I am sure nobody in this House wants to sec a fish war between two sister provinces.

There has to be a method worked out whereby there is fair distribution,because we have to remember all of our side trawlers at present are fishinc in what Nova Scotians would call their waters on the Western side of the Gulf of St. Lawrence, some on the Scotia Shelf but in particular Sydney Bight, Scatarie and all this area. And what concerns me here is that if this happens, and I might point out to the minister, we may as well accept the fact Mr.

Ministe~ that it has happened because with eleven boats fishing,! suggest that there are at least seven now fishing in Northern waters and they will come out as they have been doing for over the last two months with full loads 7 so the quota you have mentioned, I suggest, could well be caught and landed prior to the three weeks that you have already outlined.

So we do have a problem this year, the problem is acute, I agree with the minister, but certainly we all have to work together with whoever is involved, whether it is the fish companies, the Federal Government, ourselves, but prior to the Winter fishery next yea~ if we do not have a policy in place that is going to protect our workers, our fisher- men and our boats;then I think everybody in this House wol,lld be derelict in their duties. Thank you, very much. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! 3332

)1ay 5, 198 0 Tape rio. 1261 D'.Y - 2 MR. S~EAKER (Simms): The hon. Minister of Forest, Resourc .es and Lands. :iR. C . ?OW -lOR: Mr. Speaker, this is National Forest Week in Canada. The week is highlighted each year to stress the importance of our forests to the nation in general and to this Province in particular. The first ~ave the Forest Week was observed in the 1920's and its theme was Forest Fire Prevention. Today, the week, Mr. Speaker, has more significance as all aspect~ of forest utilization and protection are considered.

In this Province, the ~eek is sponsored by the Newfoundland Forest Protection Associa- tion, a member of the National sponsoring organization, The Canadian Forestry Association. My department supports the work of the N.!'.P.A. and will be setting up its major forestry disp;Lay in Grand Falls for National Forest Week. In addition, my department will be sponsoring advertising in the province's newspapers carrying National Fotest week supplements. The theme for National Forest Week, Mr.

Speaker, is'Think Forests: It is an appropriate one, as we in this Province, stop and consider the value of the resource and its importance to all our people .. ~· ·· -·-· -- -----···--- In order to commerate National Forest Week artd recognize the importance of maintaining our forests, my department is making a black spruce seedlinq av'aila)Jle to members of this hon. House and to all members of the news media present. This black spruce seedlings will be available in the main lobby .of this building at the end of today's sitting. 3333 Jk:

May 5, 1980 Tape No. 1261 DW - 3 MR. C. POWER: I would like to take this oppor- tuni t y to wish the Newfoundland Forest Protection Association success in the promotion of National Forest week. For all of those persons who d o no t have a green thumb 1 we will also, Mr. Speaker, be p a ssin g out a list of instructions as to how to care for the spru ce seedling.And I think we should table this one, Mr. Speaker, for the nurturing (inaudible). MR. S. NEARY: It is called a pet tree. AN HON. MEMBER: one of them grew last year. li!R. SPEAKER: Order, please: ------ 3334

~lay 5, 1980 Tape No. 1262 NM - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : It is not in order to table objects in the House of Asserr~ly. The hon. member for the Strait of Belle Isle. MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, there are two - AN HON. MEMBER: The member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) was allowed to table a codfish. MR. ROBERTS: - there are two kinds of Ministerial State- ments and we have heard them both today; one a statement on a matter of some substance, and my friend from Burin-Placen~ia West (Mr. Hollett) rnade,I thought,a superb response to a statement. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR.

ROBERTS: Then there is the one that the Minister of Lands and Forests (Mr. Power) just made which in itself is certainly fair game for a statement,bu~ I thir~ it is fair to say it is hardly an earth shattering revelation of the government coming to their senses wi~~ respect to the forestry policy they have adopted. We do welcome the gift of the seedlings. I assume it does not contravene the conflict of interest regulations or the Legislative Disabilities Act, whatever may be left of that.

And I note Your Honour's ruling that you cannot table an object. ~here have been some pretty objectionable things tabled in this House, Your Honour, you may want to extend it .. Let us just simply say we on this side are prepared to'~hink forests' and we do hope that National Forest Week is everything it ought to be across Canada, that the minister continues to give evidence that he too is thinking forests. We will have a crack at that a little later when we come to things like the spruce budworrn, and the sawmill policy and presence,or lack thereof, of a number of other moves which we think ought to be made.

The statement, Sir, was a brilliant insight into the obvious by the minister and we welcome ~t. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! 3335

.. May 5, 1980 Tape No. 1262 NM- 2 MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Any further statements? ORAL QUESTIONS: The hon. member for LaPoile. MR. SPEAKER: ~·NEARY: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Mine .s and Energy, Sir. The minister made a statement the other day, outside the House,I believe, ~hat with the coming of oil off the Coast of Newfoundland that the surveillance by the Armed Forces will have to be stepped up, was the hon. gentleman thinking in terms of Newfoundland having its own air force or navy ·or army, or would the provincial government have to negotiate this with the government of Canada?

Would the han. gentleman elaborate? MR. SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Mines and Energy. HR. SARRY: :r am sure, Mr. Speake r, that every hon. member here would like to have our own armed service if for no other reason than to draft the hon. member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) and ship him off to Vietnam somewhere. No, Mr.

Speaker, what I was referring to was the fact that once- well,first of all, that there is a general recognition and acceptance,! think 1in this Province that the Province has never received its fair share of the defence dollar in terms of the amount of money spent by the Federal Department of Defence on military installations. I would submit that there has not been a proportionate share spent in Newfoundland as there has been in ot.~er provinces. so that is point one that I made.

And the second point was that once we see commercial production taking place offshore, in a hostile environment there is also the possibility of sabotage. There would he, 3336

May 5,1980 Tape No. 1263 AH-1 .!A.R. BARRY: Mr. Speaker, if Eastern Canada became dependent on that :upply of oil 1I would submit a need for proper security measures and one of the facets, just one of the facets of those security measures would be an increased military presence right here in this Province. MR. NEARY: A supplementary. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. member for LaPoile. MR.

NEARY: I am not sur~ in. the beginning therein t!.e answer the hon. gentleman gave me if he was more interested in get~ing more defence money in Newfoundland, if he was more concernzu aoout that than protecting the offshore developments.

But in view of the fact that the minister has expressed a viewpoint on behalf of the government that Newfoundland owns the offshore, and I presume that will go right out to the Continental shelf, would the hon. gentleman then indicate if the Government of Canada 1if pushed out of the picture altogether as the hon. gentleman is trying to do, who would be responsible then for patrollin~ the offshore developments? Wou~d it be the Province or would it be.the Government of canada? And if the Government of Canada was asked to step up its surveillance and its patrols and so forth, who would pay the additional costs?

Would it be the Province,who would get all the benefits,or would it be the Government of Canada and the people of Canada who get no benefits? MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. Minister -of Mines and Energy. MR. BARRY: Mr. Speaker, in the same way that the federal government exercises its defence function protecting the boundaries of Southern Alberta where oil fields extend right to the US border 1 or in the same way that the Canadian federal government exercises its defence function to protect the ontario border with the United States which extends, Mr.

Speaker, incidentally out under water, aut into the middle of the Great Lakes, in exactly the same way, Mr. Speaker, the Canadian government would exercise its defence function with respect to the Newfoundland offshore area,as well it should. MR. NEARY: A final :upplementary. MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary. The hon. member for LaPoile. 3337

Na y 5,1980 Tap e No. 12 63 AH -2 MR. NEAlcr : Mr. Speaker, is the hon . gentleman aware or does he have any knowledge of the existing surveillance and patrolling that goes nn within Canada's 200 mile limit by the Canadian Coast ~uard using aircraft and destroyers? ne all remember the complaints a few years ago about the cost ·.o.f patrolling the 200 mil.e limit by . 'the Canadian Navy, which apparently are the only ones involved at the present time.

Did the hon. gentleman make any att~t to find out if the area is being adequately pa-trolled now or is this just another political statement that the hon. gentleman made right of the top of his head, of the cuff? MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : Or4er, please! The hon. member has asked his question. MR. BARRY: The han. Minister of Mines and Energy. Mr . Speaker, I have great admiration for the Canadian Coast Guard. We have seen an increased presence on the part of the Coast Guard right here in this Province, I might say , ll!r.

Speaker, with some difficulty internaLly Where there has been a continuous pressure to keep a centralized Ooast Guard administration outside ·the Province.And everybody Was very excited When the Coast Guard 3338

May s, 1980 Tape 1264 EC- 1 MR. L. BAR.~: finally in this past year or so, Mr. Speaker, started to put the icebreakers where the ice is. An amazing step was taken when that was done. But I have to compliment the Coast Guard and I have to compliment the federal government for finally seeing that the time had come to increase the presence of the Coast Guard in Newfoundland and I hope to see an extended and increased Coast Guard presence in the naa.r future.

With respect to the armed forces, we do al.so have a certain surveillance by the military 1 particularly with respe~ to air-sea rescue capability, again, something which only came after long complaint and pressure on the part of this government to have a stepped up air-sea rescue effort here in this Province. There were too many cases where there were lives being lost, Mr. Speaker, , too many cases where our fishermen were in great danger bec<~.use - MR. S • NEA:!cr : It is our esteemed ~ader of the Op-position wno did it, whom you c<~.llad a traitor to Newfoundland. MR. L.

BARRY: - because of the long delay between the tia. that they could get their planes in the air in P.E.I. or Nova Scotia, wherever it was. I am glad to see an increased air sea rescue effort here in this Province, but there shal.l be still more military presence needed, Mr. Speaker, and mora Coast Guard presence as the activity offshore increases. I might add, Mr. Speaker, that we have recently seen where there can be a co-ordination between what is happening offshore with the oil industry and the air sea rescue effort.

I believe the - I am sorry, I forqet the n&llle of the ship now, but there was a ship ran into ­ difficulty not too lonq ago that crew members ware able to be removed from because the rescue helicopters were able to qo out and refuel on drill riqs that happened to be in the MR. S. NEARY: It was the Bill Crosbie that is in the harbour down here. MR. L. BARRY: It was the Bill Crosbie. And it was to a la.rqe extent because the helicopters could refuel on the drill rigs that the air-sea rescue was expedited in that particular instance. 3339

May 5, 1980 1'ape 1264 EC - 2 MR. L. BARRY: So, ~. Speaker, there is nothing tremendously significant about the point that was being made. It was made in response to a reporter's question. I believe that as 3340 ... ~

May 5, _1980 Tape No. 1265 EL - 1 MR. L. BARRY: offshore oil and gas develop- ment takes place on a commercial basis,we will se an increased military presence here in Newfoundland and we will see this Province hopefully getting a fairer share of the defense dollars~that are being sp~ this country. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : The hon. the member for Torngat Mountains. MR. G. WARREN: Yes, Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Health. On April 15th, I asked the minister during Question PeriOd when would the emergency ambulance program become effective and at that time he told me he did not know.

So I am just wondering now if the minister could be more specific on what tirne that program would become effective? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health. MR. W. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, when the hon. member asked me the question before,I told him I did not have the exact details because it was still in the system. I pointed out to him that it was made, it was announced in the Budget that there would be a program coming in place in this fiscal year 1but we had not had the details worked out.

It has to go through the various systems, like the Treasury Board, the Social Policy and it is before Cabinet now and that is all I can tell him; that it is presently at Cabinet and I will not have any further details until it is dealt with there. MR. G. WARREN: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR.SpEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the member for Torngat Mountains. MR. G. WARREN: Yes, Mr. Speaker, it seems like the minister is playing cards with the medical affairs of the people of this Province.

Could the minister advise the hon.aouse if there has been any consultation with the International Grenfell Association on respect to the agreements 3341

May 5, 1980 Tape NO. 1265 EL - 2 MR . G. WARREN: that will be in the Budget pertaining to air ambulance services in Labrador? Will IGA be consulted prior to the announcement? Also,will it be retroactive? %here are many patients now that have been transferred ou .t of Labrador at the present time and they have been calling my office,and I presume probably other members from Labrador have received the same representation~ Will this program be retroactive to the first of April or will it come into being when the minister, through the Cabinet .feels like it? Could the minister enlighten us more on that one? MR .

SPEAKER (Simms) : The hon. the Minister of Health. MR. W. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, first of all, the first statement the member made in

preamble to his question of playing cards or games with the public of Labrador, I want to point out that - MR. G. WARREN: Sure you are. MR. W. HOUSE: - after a number o; years 1an~ we are making steps in the improvement in the health system every year and the ambulance system,and this · year there is a major step forward and I would suggest that he should let ~he thing go on in due process. But the point about it is, of course we had talked to the IGA, the Director of the IGA prior to this .

As a matter of fact, . it was mentioned in the part of the study that was carried on by a committee in Labrador and we discussed that totally with the director. Certainl~there are negotiations and we are talking about it, and the hospital board and the association both play a very prominent

part in that particular program. So we could not do it without that. The other aspect, of course, is that 3342

Hay 5, 1980 Tape No. 1266 SD - 1 MR. W. HOUSE: I can not tell the bon. lnember whether it will be retroactive, I can not tell him that because the programme would only be in place when the regulations are developed and we announce it. MR. SPEAKER: (Simms) Belle Isle. MR. E. ROBERTS: The han. member for the Strait of Mr. Speaker, a question for the Minister of Transportation and Communications (Mr. c. Brett:,if I can persuade him to lay down the paper for a rooment.

A handsome picture of his colleague, the Minister of Lands and Forests (Mr. c. l?m<l'er), there which I hope will be distributed with the seedling today - on soft pape-:-. MR. POWER: so complimentary. MR. E. ROBERTS: The ~~nister's comments were not The minister's comments were not so complimentary but fortunately I would say to the Minister of Lands and Forests it is Cabinet solidarity and all that sort of thing. an introduction to the

preamble. MR. JAMIESON: MR. E. ROBERI'S: Mr. Speaker, that was by way of

Preamble. Yes. My question is for the minister and grows out of his,I thi~ quite productive visit to the Main Brook portion of my constituency last week. I wonder if tile minister could tell us first of all a little about the shopping list that has gone up from his department through the Intergovernmental Affairs Ministry to Ottawa with respect to the next DREE roads agreement? I assume the minister knows what I mean by the term shopping list and I assume the House is f~liar.

This is the list submitted by the government of the Province from which ottawa selects the projects which they will fund under the new DREE roads agreement,assuming there will be, as there in fact will be ,another agreement. Could the minister tell us when that list went and whether Main Brook is on it? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Communications. 3343

!'lay 5, 1980 T;;.pe :.<o. 1266 SD - 2 !o!R . c. BRE TT: Mr. Speaker, somebody had told me before I left for Main Brook that that -I will use t.'le term shopping list for want of a better word - if somebody had told me that that was not in Ottawa, I probably would have said that they were not speaking the truth. MR, E. l10BERTs: That it was or was not? MR. c. BRETT : That it was not,because I understood it was. And it was only upon coming }!ack to st. John's that I discovered that the so-called shopping list is still at the DREE office in st. John's.

And my understandinq is that the reason it is there is that the federal government refuses to entertain any further agreements or any further shoppi:1g lists or anything else of that_ nature until such tiii!6 as they have dealt with the four- I think it is four, I am not absolutely certain; they do not deal with my department but I think it is four - DREE agreements that are in Ottawa now wait~ng for some action.

Some of these agreements or requests have been in Ottawa for over a year, some not quite that long, but up until this moment to the best of my knowled9,e there has been no action taken on any of them and it is my understanding that until such ti .me as they do act on these they will not entertain another list. To the best of my knowledge the road to Main Brook is not on that list. I have ·not had a chance to disc .uss this with the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs,who is the Premier. SOME l{Ofol. MEMBERS~ Oh, oh. 3344

May 5, 1980, Tape 1267, Page l - apb MR. BRETT: I understand that the task force reportwhich was recently released up there, strongly recommended that that road be built. In light of that I would think that the road probably now has a different priority. I would also like to say that I did not understand the situation quite as well before I went up as I do now. I have to agree that it is a very important road. By the same token, of course, we cannot forget the road that is commonly referred to as the road across the country.

I think that one is equally as important, and what I would like to see, if we could get DREE to participate, is to do the whole thing,right from Plum Point right on across to complete the loop, right up to the proposed airport at. St. Anthony. MR. SPEAKER(Sirnrns): A supplementary. The hen. the member for the Strait of Belle Isie. MR. ROBERTS: Thank you, Mr, Speaker. There shall be another time to talk about the road across country vis-a-vis the new road to be built, but I would like to see them both done.

I may or may not agree with the order in which they are to be done but that is a matter we will debate at the proper time. Could the minister tell me then whether the government, now that we have established that the Main Brook to the new Northern Peninsula Highroad road is not, in fact, on the DREE shopping ~~ --·- list, just 2s we have established that the shopping list is not in Ottawa, ir is in the Federal Government DREE Office here in St.

John's, can the minister tell us whether the government are prepared to amend that list by adding to it a request for the Main Brook - Roddickton - I am sorry, not the Main Brook-Roddickton, ----- ·-- ----- ·-- the Main Brook new highway link and,if so, as I hope the 3345

May 5, 1980, Tape 1267, Page 2 -- apb MR. ROBERTS: minister \.,ill agree to do, can the minister undertake to assure us that the government will request that it be given a degree of priority. The task force report certainly mirrors that, as the minister tells us. I think ~here are many other equally compelling arguments and it is time that road was recognized. But I think the question is quite important, Mr. Speaker, because, as the minister will agree, unless that road is on the shopping list it cannot be put on a roads agreement, as I understand it.

Equally, it is fair to say that even if it is on the list, it may not get on the actual 'to be done' list because there will be less money than the government need to do the work. But can the minister tell us if he will agree to amend the list by adding that to it? And if so, would he also ask that a degree of priority be attached to it? MR. SPEAKER(Simms) : The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Communications. MR. BRETT: Mr. Speaker, I do not think I should make that kind of a commitment.

As I indicated, the Premier is the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs and I, myself, believe,probably, that priorities ,-- -- ·--- --- -- might have changed since that task force report was released. But in all fairness I think that question should be posed to the ~remier rather than to me. Intergovernmental Affairs will be doing the negotiating,not only for this roads programme but for all of the DREE agreements,and I think the Premier is the right person to answer that question. I, as the Minister of Highways, may feel that that road should have top priority but maybe government feel differently.

You know, it is something that I would prefer to discus ·s 3346

May 5, 1980, Tape 1267, Page 3 -- ap~ MR. BRETT: with the Premier first. On another point, the hen. member suggested that if the road is not on the list then it cannot be approved. That is not entirely true. I think, probably, the Newfoundland Cabinet minister in Ottawa - I do not think, I know - that hen. member, who no doubt will do a good job in the next four years, will have some say in what roads are paved through DREE and what ones are not. And it it is not on the list it does not necessarily mean that it will not get done. I am sure that that hen. member will look after his district very well. MR.

SPEAKER(Simms): A final supplementary. The hen. the member for the Strait of Belle Isle. MR. ROBERTS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do know fairly well the federal minister, the hen. Mr. Rompkey, and I can second the minister's observation that Mr. Rompkey will ensure that justice is done and it will be done. But I understand that Mr. Rompkey's powers cannot be exercised unless the government exercises its discretion first. But anyway 1 that is another subject.

I think it was take a mutual meeting of the minds before Ottawa's cash flows to these projects and there is ample precedent for that in this Province, including the Northern Peninsula Road which was not entirely the decision of the Government of Newfoundland, I assure the minister. Anyway, my final - Your Honour is wondering? Well, there is a O:iue~.:i. supplementary: I understand the minister's position that he cannot commit the government at this date.

Will he undertake, however, to have a word with his colleague the Premier, the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, and let us have a statement at an early date, either to me individually, if he wishes, or in the House, as he 3347

May 5, 1980, Tape 1267, Page 4 -- apb MR. ROBERTS: would prefer, on this question because it is of some great import and the urgency, as the minister will appreciate, is made all the greater because of the fact that he was in Main Brook and met with. the council there. They have given me quite a full briefing. They were delighted to see the minister but now they want some specific answers and I know 3348

--- -- --- Ha y 5, 1980 Tape No. 1268 NM - 1 MR. ROBERTS: the minister \·!il l under stand . Can he give us an undertaking that he will speak with the Premier, give us some indication of the government's position? That is different than saying what the gov ernment's position is going to be. Will he let us know what it is going to be as quickly as ~e can 7 MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The han. Minister of Transportation and Communications. MR. BRETT: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I will gladly give that undertaking.

I am most anxious to meet with the Premier on this subject and we will be discussi ng t he matter further and in all probabilit y the Premier will have a s tatement on it. MR. SPEAKER: The han. member for St. Ma~J's-T h e Capes. MR. HANCOCK: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Health about a problem I ran into with an ambulance service this weekend. I would like to know what is government's policy on the dispatching of ambulances in the case of emergency calls? Just exactly what is the government's policy? MR. SPEA KE R: The hen. Minister of Health. MR. HOUSE: Mr.

Speaker, with respect to ambulance calls, of course first of all the ambulances are given in areas and determined in ~~ee different ways,of course;the private operators and the organizations, in some places there are hospitals, and then with regard to the dispatching of ambulances it is done basically through the doctors. A person will call a doctor and the doctors would direct the ambulance, or nurses. In the case of an emergency on the road 1any person at all calls and of course gives their names and an ambulance will respond.

But there are fairly detailed regulations regarding it,and I can get them to the member - as a matter of fact I have got some here in my briefcase, the r~gu~ations now, 'and there are newer ones drawn up. The point is we have to have somebody responsible most times because in a lot of cases the ambulances are a little cheaper than taxis and of course we have to make sure that when 3349

~~r· May s, 1980 Tape No. 1268 NM - 2 MR. HOUSE: en ambulance goes that it is going for the right reason. So it is basically the doctor or a nurse, and in the case of a community,if the doctor is not available,! believe the mayor will be able to release it and the other thing is,of course, in an emergency anybody can get an ambulance. MR. HANCOCK: MR. SPEAKER (Simms): St. Mary's-The Capes. MR. HANCOCK: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary, the hon. member for How do you determine what is an emergency or not?

According to an ambulance call that I put through the week for a person who was injured, I had to get permission from the doctor in order to get the a,mbulance dispatched to the scene of the accident? Is this indeed true? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Health. MR. HOUSE: I am not aware of that particular detail but I had another one where a person called me,and I made a point of going bac~ and if the accident was a broken bone or something like that, they would dispatch the ambulance right away; but the person who called the ambulance would of course have to take the responsibility for it.

But I do not know this detail. I will check that one out for you. MR. SPEAKER: for St. Mary's-The Capes. MR. HANCOCK: A final supplementary, the hon. member Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Over the weekend I had to make - I guess around the bays you would get a hooker quicker than you would get a doctor at times. I had to make seven calls to try and get permission from a doctor to get hold of a doctor to get an ambulance dispatched to the scene of where the accident occurred.

Can the minister give me some assurance that this will not happen again, that if an emergency call is called ~n by anyone, that the ambulance driver will be dispatched immediately. 3350

-· !·!ay 5, 19 80 Tape No. 1268 NM- 3 SOME HON. ~!EMBERS: Oh , oh! MR. SPEAKER (Sjmms) : or der, ple ase! The hon. Minister of Health. MR. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, as I just pointed out, I do not exactly know about this except now, I just heard about it. In an accident -we are advised - and I have had some problems with certain other areas where that has happened, but I will certainly undertake to investigate that particular incident and see if we can give you a specific answer. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Carbonear. MR. MOORES: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the hon. Minister of Transportation and Communications. By way of

preamble 1last year, about eight or ten months ago, the minister met with a group of interested citizens, including the Town Council o= Carbonear, and committed himself at that time to the completion of the Carbonear by-pass road, The lack of completion, or the non­ completion of that road of course has led to complete havoc, taffic congestion, etc., within the Town of Carbo~ear, and to a number of near fatal accidents involving transport trucks, Would the minister be prepared at this time to re-commit himself to the completion of the Carbonear by-pass road this year? MR. ROBERTS: Hear, hear! 3351

May s, 1980 Tape 1269 EC - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Communications. MR. C. BRETT: Mr. Speaker, I met with a group of people from that area. I beg to differ with the hen. member. I most certainly did not commit one single, solitary cent. Therefore, I do not have to recommit. The roads programme for this year will be tabled as qui~y as I can get the Orders in Council - that is my department - and get it typed up.

I will present it to the House and then everybody will be aware what roads are going to be done and what roads are not going to be done, But I certainly did not make any commitment, Mr. Speaker. MR. R. MOORES : Mr, Speaker, a supplementary. MR. SPEAKER: A supple'Jientary, the hon. the member for Car.bonear. MR. R. MOORES: Just as a self-protective measure, Mr.

Speaker, this is the fourth year in a row that the lllinister has given me this - well, not this particular minister, but a Minister of Transportation and -Co11111unications - has given me this exact same answer, and each year t.l).ey dany having made a commitment. Now, I was not at that meeting last year, but I do know what was said there.

My next supplementary question to the minister - it is irrelevant whether you committed your funds or whether you made a promise or whether yo11 intend o;o recommit funds this year - would you place the carbonear by-pass road in its proper perspective on the li.ot of priority construction this season and tell me just exactly what that status is? SOME HOI(. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. G. WAIUlEN: A good queGtion. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. t.'le Minister of Transportation and ColllllUnications. --- -- -- MR.. C. BRE'l"r: 'lhe bon. Jlllllllber will have the ans-r to that question, Mr.

Spealter, wnen ae Jist of ·the 'road·work is -tabled. MR. E •. BOBEJa'S: Arroqance! _ A..--rogance! _Have __ you l!!t any contracts? MR. SPEAKER: 'lhe hon •. the member for Foqr>. MR. B. TULK: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Transportation and CoDDIIunicatiqns. MR. E. ROBERTS s Fooled by some of your colleagues: MR., SPEAKER: Order, please! 3352 •",'j

•. P'. May 5, 1980 Tape 1269 EC - 2 MR. B. 'l'tJLK: It concerns the ferry routes to Fogo Island. I have some indication that the route will probably be changed from Seldom to Carmanville, as it now exists, changed perhaps to go from Rogers Cove to southern Head, Change Islands and then to Farewell Head. I wonder would the minister indicate if there has been any final decision in this regard and just what the situation is with regard to those indications? MR. SPEAKER (SiJIIIDS) : and CoJIIIDUnications. MR. C.

BRETT: The hon. the Minister of Transportation I wish I could get back to the question the hon. member asked before because there was some suggestion from an hon. member over there that we are calling tenders. I do not know if this ill order or not, Mr. Speaker, but I want to assure the House that with the exception probably of one or two people - and I also mentioned to a person on the other side of the House, I -de some remark that there will be some road work and there was no more said - I assure this hon.

House that the roads programme is done by Cabinet,but I do not have the Orders in Council, it is not typed up, as such, and hen. members on this side, excepting one or two to whom I made a casual remark, are not illfare because they have been down my throat. They were down my throat the minute I came through the door today. I am going to table the whole thing and both s:..des of the House will know the same day what is going to be done, that is the gospel trut.'l. HR. E. IIOBERTS: Very good (inaudible) • MR. C.

BRETT: The ferry service to Fogo Island - some members of tlrf staff and myself went to Fogo Island recently and we met with two groups of people. Both gTOups indicated what they would like to see with respect to changes and improvements in the ferry system. We listened very carefully to what they had to say and then we told them what we had in mind and a lot of the plans that we have 0 One group in particular agreed with them wholeheartedly, the other group, I think, had some feelings that maybe it was not the best idea.

But anyway, what we said down there - and it is only an idea, it is just being tossed around at this stage of the game-we talked about changing the route, at least during the Summer months, from 3353

May 5, 1980 Tape 1269 EC- 3 MR. C. :SRETT ~ instead of going from Fogo Island, that is from Seldom to Carmanville as it is now, we were discussing and looking at the possibility of going from some point near Seldom just up around Rogers Cove, or something like that, •cross to Change Islands and then on to Farewell Head. I think that is what it is. It is an entirely new route, it is a quicker route.

It would mean, hopefully, more trips and we may somehow co-ordinate the efforts of the two ferries, the one that now goes from Change I:slands to Fare-11 Head and the one that now goes from Seldom to wherever she goes on the mainland. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) ~ :-IR • B • TtJLK. ~ Time for one final supplementary • The hon. the member for Fogo • Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the minister would perhaps tell the House the groups that he has been in contact with and perhapa tell us if he is satisfied at this point 3354

May 5, 1980 Tape No. 1270 DW - 1 MR. TULK: that he has done enough research into that route or whether he will be doing further research< And will he be providing alternate docking facilities in case the run from, let us say, Rogers Cove for a po~nt of reference, to Farewell Read does not work out 1 will he be providing alternate docking spaces,say, in Seldom and Carmanville if there has to be a W·inter run"? And perhaps, the last question, Mr. Speaker, is will he be providing new docking facilities this year anyway for the run off Fogo Island regardless of where it is going? MR. SP~AKER (Simms): The hon.

Minister of Trans- portation and Communications. MR. C. BRETT: Mr. Speaker, that was two or three questions.~ do not know if I can remember all of them or not. But the two ~roups that I met with were the Fogo Island Development Association, I think it is called and the, I suppose, it is the Fogo Island or Fogo District Progressive Conservative Association, Those were the two gro~ps. Would we be providin~ alternate facilities if it does not work out from Rogers cove?

There is some thought that maybe ~e could run into some trouble with ice during t.he Winter months on that particular route and we a~e cognizant of that.And therefore what we might have to do,if we do this at all,and this is certainly in the pre- lh11inary stages, very, very preliminary, but if we do that at all we realize that we could have to us~ the route from Rogers Cove to Farewell Head in the Sulllmer,or for six or seven or eight months of the year 1 and then the other four months we may have to revert back to the Seldom - Carman- ville run. 3355

May 5, 1980 Tape No. 1270 DW - 2 l~R. C. BRETT: Have we done enough research? I do not know if we have done enough research or not, I really do not. I know we have done an awful lot. No, not 100 per cent because 1 as I have already indicated,it is very, very prelimina:ry,But we have been researching the Fogo Island ferry service for the last number of years because there have been requests for causeways and requests for bri~ges and requests for you-name-it, so there is a stack of it down there that thick.

Now whether that is enough or whether it is not I do not know, but t would say that we are still going to have to do some more thi·nking about it and probably more research as well. MR, SPEAKER (Simms): Order, please: The time for Oral Questions has expired. I would like to acknowledge the p.resence in the gallery today of a former member of this hon. House, the former member for St. John's West, Dr. Hubert Kitchen. And it has also been brought to my attention that we have a distinguished Newfoundland personality in the gallery and I know hon. members would want to join me in welcoming Mr. Harry Hibbs.

SOME HON, MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PRESENTING REPOR'l'S BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES MR. SPE;>.JCER: ville. MR. F. STAGG: The hon. member for Stephen- Mr. Speaker, it gives me pleasure to give the final report from the Government Services Committee as opposed to the interim report which I presented last week. 3356

May 5, 1980 Tape No. 1270 DW - 3 MR. F. STAGG: This report consists of tellinq the House that we have passed the five Heads of expenditure submitted to us, these Heads being Head IV, Finance; Head V, Labour and Manpower; Head XVII, Transportation and Communications; Head XVIII, Public works and Services and Head XIX, Municipal Affairs and Housing. These Heads of expenditure were passed without amendment and that means that our committee has now done its function for this fiscal year.

By way of preliminary commentary before the concurrence debates 1 we did receive a very interesting letter from the press gallery in response to my interim report which I made the other day. I addres- sed myself to that this morning and basically we are most appreciative of tQe comments made by the president of the press gallery and I certainly think that it would go a long way towards solving some of the problems that we had encountered along the way. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): MR. L. BARRY: MR. SPE:AK:S:R: and Energy. MR. L. BARRY: Thank you. Atty further reports? Mr. Speaker. The hon. Minister of Mines Mr.

Speaker, it gives me pleasure to file the annual 1979 report for Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro Corporation. MR. E. ROBERTS: They made $9 million, did they? MR. L. BARRY: some caribou en the cover. MR. C. POWER: MR. SPEAKER: There is a nice picture of Environmentally conscious. Any further reports? ~NSWERS TO QUESTIONS FOR WHICH NOTICE HAS BEEN GIVEN MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Justice. 3357

May 5,1980 Tape No. 1271 AH-1 MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, I would like to give the answer to a question asked by the hon. member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary). I cannot say on the Order Paper of which day,but it was very 7ecently. I will read the question and that will , I think, put it in perspective or the hon. member will know to what I am referring.

The question was, "Have any representations been made in the past three years by the minister or his department to the federal authorities requesting changes to present laws concerning the use and distribution of marijuana?" Now I can only make a distinction in answering it and that is up to the period of, sa~ last July when I became minister,! am not aware of any requests,certainly in the sense of written requests.! could not say whether there would have been,you know,oral discussion of it. That would not show in the record.

Now in the period since July, since I have been there,I can tell the hon. gentleman that this question was discussed at a meeting last October called by the federal Minister of ,Justic~ the then one, Senator Jacques Flynn and the ten provincial counterparts and it was a general discussion without decisions being made,number one from the point of view of both the advantages and disadvantages of decriminalizing the use, not the trafficking but the use of marijuana.

At that time we were informed that a study was beinq made by the federal Department of Health and Welfare to update the LeDane ~yal Commission Report whic~ it was felt 1was quite outdated and that the new strains or mutations of marijuana being used were quite different from what had been examined then and that its health and related effects could be quite different. The idea therefore was to wait until that study would be available and that there would be a further meeting around December. Now,~~ere having been an election and a new government in between 1that has not taken place.

I would anticipate a meeting within the next two or three months. (Inaudible) decriminalizing marijuana. MR. OTTENHEII1ER: My positio~ would be,and I think it is one shared by all,that until we have that updated information with respect to •.. ~ its effects, medical or psychological or related effects, that is would be premature to 3358

May 5,1980 TApe No. 1271 AH-2 MR. OTTENHEIMER: make a statement there. The basic understanding was, the information we were given was that the LeDane Royal Commission Report in many respects was outdated or its findings outdated because what is being used now is in its composition quite different from the marijuana then used and that no firm position would be taken until the ministers had an update on its health effects. So I think really we will have to wait until we have that. MR. NEARY: But now they have these - MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Further answers? MR. OTTENHEHffiR: Presumably, but we have not been told.

PRESENTING PETITIONS MR. SPEAKER : The han. member for Eagle River.. MR. HISCOCK: Mr. Speaker , I rise to present a petition on behalf of the residents of Port Hope Simpson,Labrador. The prayer of the petition is that an airline strip be constructed in that South Coastof Labrador community. I also realiae that this is a federal matter and I have written to a minister in the federal gover~~ent on this matter as well as Mr. Jean-Luc Pepin , Minister of Transportation.

But I rise to present the petition in this House because the residents have asked me to present the petition and asked for the support of the Minister of Transportation and Communications (Mr. Brett) for this Province.

It is the largest community on the South Coast of Labrador and in this regard the provincial government is building an airstrip at Cartwright this year which will be finished, there is one at Marv's Harbour which is now being finished and also one in the process at Forteau and of course we have the one at Blanc Sablan. ·People feel in Port Hope Simpson and the immediate area that you have to take the single engine plane to Mary's Harbour and then take the twin Otter to St. Anthony ,and then on to other areas of the Province that are connected with the Queen Air.

I am concerned from this area particularly because Port Hope Simpson is inland over twenty miles and is the first place to freeze up in the Fall and also the last place in Spring to thaw out,and therefore they need to have more transportation. It is possible for CN boats to go to Mary's Harbour and to William/s Harbour and 3359

May 5, 1980 Tape No. 1272 SD- l MR. E. HISCOCK: Charlottetown and other areas much later in the Fall than it is to go to Port Hope SiQpson. So I ask the Minister of Transportation and Communications (Mr. C. Brett) if he will take this matter up and give it priority ~ It is not only this airstrip but the other airstrips on coastal Labrador that will be speeded up They are scheduled for one a year and I think they will be finished in 1986.

I would ask the federal Qinister 1 as well as the Minister of Transportation in Ottawa,and I would hope that the provincial government through the Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr. J. Dinn) will employ upon the federal government to speed up these airstrips particularly with regard to Port Hope Simpson on the Labrador Coast. By the way, Mr. Speaker, I might add that nir.ety-eight people signed t.'lis petition and there would have been more but basically another petition was signed and circulated in the community and sent directly to the Minister of Transportation and Communications. MR.

SPEAKER (Simms): The hen. member for tlie Strait of Belle Isle. ------ - ~ MR. E. RJBERTS: Mr. Speaker, if any hen. member on the .. ----------- -· other side wishes to say a word I would be happy to - the Qinister made a sign. Does he wish to speak? I mean, I will yield and then come back in a ooment. SOME BON. MEMBERS: Oh, Ohl MR. ROBERI.'S : Well, Mr.

Speaker, that is fine. __ ...:t.h= e:... rema~s that __ ! wish _to ~e - a~ !l few but very much heartfelt. 'rtle COIIIDiuni ty of Port Hope Simpson was not within the area of Labrador which was formally included in the strait of _Belle Isle _constituency from _l975 to .l979. but nonethele~~ it is a·oommunitv that I have come to know fairly well over the vears in a variety of ways. I think that the prayer of this petition, and I would differ with my hon. friend from Eagle River (Mr. E. Hiscock) 3360

May 5, 1980 Tape No. 1272 SD - 2 MR. E. ROBERTS: it is primarily a federal responsibility but there is a legitimate provincial i~put into this - HR. S. NEARY: Right on. MR. E , ROBERTS : -and we have a precedent,! believe 1in Rigolet. As I recall it 1 the airstrip in the community of Rigolet was funded initially in part at least by the funds from the government of the Province. MR. WARREN: It is still half finished. !I!IR. E. ROBERTS: It is still half finished 1 but at least it is halfway there. But the prayer of the petition really is one ~~at ought to commend itself.

These airstrips are expensive in theMselves, ~·!r. Spea.1<er, but they are not expensive when we co:me to n:easure the good which r~sults from them. I do not know what it costs to build a airstrip these days- say,$500,000, it is o!: that order,' possibly a little more possibly a little less-but the fact re~ins that until a road is constructed to link Port Hope Simpson with Mary's Harbour and the other comrnlmities in ~'le area, the only possible means of year-round trar.sportation is by air.

The boats are fine in the Sumrner,whether they are coastal boats or whether they are private boats, trap skiffs or longliners cr speed boats, it does not matter, but they are only for a limited portion of the year and 1 as my hon. friend has explained, Port Hope Simpson is well inland, it ~as a created community in 1930s named after the than Commissioner of Natural Resources, Sir John Hope Sirr,pson.

We would have Powersville today 1 I suppcse,if we are to have a comparable community, I It is well inland and SO- it freezes well before the communities out on the coast freeze up 1 Mary's Harbour,which I suppose is the nearest coastal communit.y to Port Hope Simpson - about what? 20 miles away in a direct line. There is going to be no road built,in all likelihood, for some considerable time and so the only way to provide these people with access to anything approaching year-round transportation is by the provision of an airstrip.

The petition makes it clear that what is there now is not adequate; what is there now is exactly what nature put there - the water in the harbour and the ice when the water 3361

:-lay 51 1980 Tape No. 1272 SD - 3 l1R. E. F.OBERTS: turns into ice. So I would hope that t.he ~!inister of Transportatio~ and Communications (Mr. c. Brett) will support this petition on behalf of the government,and I have no dotmt he will do that because that does not cost the government a plugged nickel. But I would hope as well that he will offer on behalf of the government or the government will offer in their own right to help towards this.

The people of Port Hope Simpson 1 like the people of most of these communities in Southern Labrador, Sir, have been denied 1inevitably but not rightly,have been denied the benefits of the Confederation years. Many parts of Labrador have seen benefits, many parts of this Island,but, Sir, if there is a forgotten coast,and that is a phrase that is often heard in this House, it is the coast which begins at Mar r' s Haroour and goes down North as far as ,I suppose ,not even to Rigolet, possibly as far as Cartwright and Paradise River and the communities in Sandwich Bay.

That is t.l-te portion of this Province that is li'OSt seriously lacking not just in public services 1 in even anything,; So I would say to the minister that he could find a lot of projects ir. this Province that are less worthy than this ' one and I would venture to say, Sir that he will fund 1or his department will fund many projects this year and next and down the road that are far less worthwhile than this one. So I would urge him to consider giving provincial money as well as to supporting a request for the federal li'Oney. It is easy to spend 3362

May 5, 1980 Tape 1273 EC - 1 MR. E. ROBERTS: federal money, Let him also put some of his own money on it because I think, Sir, this is money well spent. Thank you. SOME HON • MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. SPEl\l<ER (Simms) : The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Communications (Mr. c. Brett) wishes to speak on that petition? The hen. the Minister of Transportation and Communications. MR. C. BRETT: Very briefly, Mr. Speaker, I am more than happy to support that petition from the hen. member.

The hen. member brought it to my attention some time ago outside the House,and I agreed wholeheartedly that both he and I should take up the matter with the federal government. And this is not a matter of passing the buck: Everybody acknowledges that it is a federal responsibility. I think the federal government more or less agreed some time ago to build something like thirteen airstrips on the coast and they have not done too badly. There are three or four finished or just about finished. We are spending ~600,000 in Cartwright this year to put a crushed stone top on it.

But I acknowledge the need and I am aware of the need, ~ the hon. member for the area is, and ,certainly, I will do anything that I can in my capacity to make sure that the federal government does not forget Port Hope Simpson. MR. SPEl\l<ER: MR. H, ANDREWS: The hon. the member for Burgee - Bay d'Espoir. Mr. Speaker 1 I rise on a point of personal privilege. In this afternoon's Evening Telegram on page one, there is a story about a mini-poll which indicates few MHAs opposed to the flag design. Mr.

Speaker, it is bad enough to be misquoted, but it is, I suspect, even worse to be quoted when you have not said anything at all. It says here that I said I would not support the proposed flag, it was an abstract design and has no meaning to me 1 1 I do not think there is anything I like about it' and 'I will have to vote against it.' I was not interviewed at all by the Evening Telegram 1 so I would ask that the paper retract what is said in this article. And I suspect maybe if this is typical of that story, there may be some other falsehoods in it also.

I was interviewed by the CBC in an anonymous poll that was taken, and for the record, I indicated to them that 3363

Mays, 1980 Tace 127 3 EC - 2 MR. H. ANDREWS: X would vote for the flag. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : Order, please! With respect to the point of privilege, X would rule that there is not a prima facie case in this particular matter but that the bon. lllel!lher has talcen the opportunity to clarify remarks that were attributed to him. ORDERS OF THE DAY, .• Motion 5.

Motion, the hen. the Minister of Education to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend 'nle Education (Teachers' Pensions) Act,' CArried. (Bill Jio. 35) • On IIICtion, Bill No, 35 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. Motion 6, Motion, the hon. the Minister of Consumer Affairs and Environment to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Judgement Recovery (Nfld.) Act," carried, (Bill No. 10) • On motion, Bill No, 10 read a first time, ordered read a second time on toiiiCrrow. Motion 7.

Motion, the hen. the Minister of Transportation and CoiiDIIWlications to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Hi.ghway Traffic Act," carried. (Bill No, 32) • On motion, Bill No, 32 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomo=ow. Motion a. Motion, 'l'be bon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The City Of st. John's (Loan) Act, 1975-76 And The City of st. John's (Loan) Act, l97a•, carried. (Bill No. 39). On motion, Bill No. 39 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. "'f'\ I"'. JJ04

, .. May 5, 1980 Tape: 1273 EC - 3 Motion 9. Motion, the hon. the Premier to introduce a bil~, "An Act To Adopt A Flag- For 'l'he Province," carried. (BUl t'lo. 441 • on. motion, Bill No. 44 read a first tilDe, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. Motion 4. Motion, the hon. the Minister of ,Justice to introduce a bill , "An Act To Amend The 9hange Of Name Act 1 19 7.8, " carried. (BiU No. 36) • On motion, Bill No. 36 read a first ti.ma·, ordered read a second tiJDa on tomorrow. 3365

May 5, 1980, Tape 1274, Page 1 -- apb MR. MARSHALL: 1ivays and Means. Order 3. Committee of MR. SPEAKER(Simms): Order 3. Committee of Ways and Means, the Budget Debate. The hon. the member for LaPoile. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. NEARY: Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker, the responsibility that falls on my shoulders today is to lead off for the Opposition in the Budget Debate. And I must say that this presents a rather difficult task . because it is so long ago since we heard the Budget delivered in this House that most members have forgotten what it was the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collinsl said. Now, Mr.

Speaker, before I get into the meat of the Budget Debate itself, I want to, first of all, say that a large n~ber of people were confused as to what we were going to debate in the House today. A lot of people thought the debate would start today on the ne~ provincial flag. The President of the Council (Mr. Marshall) indicated, I believe, on Friday, that today would be devoted to the Budget Debate and tomorrow the flag debate would start and we had notice of second reading of the bill a few moments ago by the hon. the President of the Council,whc introduced the bill on behalf of the Premier.

I was always under the impression, Mr. Speaker, that the bill for a new provincial flag was going to be brought in by the Minister of Tourism, Recreation and Culture·(Mr. Dawel But now the Premier has put his name on the bill that was just circulated in the House and it is going to be brought in under the name of the Premier who told the people of this Province a few days ago that there was going to be a free vote on the provincial flag. A 3366

May 5, 1980, Tape 1274, Page 2 -- apb MR. NEARY: free vote, he said, but then he went on to add in the next breath that he was in favour of the new flag. Now, what kind of a free vote is that? The Premier of the Province, the leader of the Tory Party,says, 'Yes, a free vote,but I am in favour of the new flag', and then brings in a bill with his name on it, the Premier of the Province. Now what way does he expect his colleague to vote?

What way does he expect that hon. crowd of sheep who are looking for favours, who want to bow and scrape and weasle their ways into his cabinet, what way are they going to vote? 'A free vote' he says,'but the bill is in my name, Hen. A. Brian Peckford, Premier' and he announces to the whole world that he is in favour of the flag b11t they can vote how th.ev 1~.1"". All I can say is God help them if they do not toe the party line and vote for it. That is not a free vote. AN HON. MEMBER: A flock of sheep. MR. NEARY: A flock of sheep, yes. MR. WARREN: There is nothing free about that. MR.

NEARY: A flock of sheep and they will all be rewarded in the end, Mr. Speaker. But I will not say that they will all be rewarded in the end by getting into the Cabinet. When they go back to their constituents, back to the voters they will be rewarded in the end. Because, Mr. Speaker, never before in this history of this Province have we had a single issue that has caused such a furor from coast to coast, and caused such a fuss in Newfoundland and Labrador as this so-called distinctive Newfoundland flag. Mr. Speaker, I am not voting for it. And let me make one thing clear, Mr.

Speaker, let me make one thing abundantly clear, that in my view, if I am reading the people in this Province 3367

~Y 5, 1980, Tape 1274, Page 3 -- apb MR . ~ARY: right, ninety-eight per cent, r would say - ninety-nine per cent of the people of this Province are against that design. But that does not n~cessarily mean, Sir, that they are against a distinctive Newfoundland flag. That does not necessarily mean that. 3366

-.,., May 5, 1980 Tape No. 1275 EL - l MR. S. NEARY: The largest group of people in this Province today, in my estimation, favour retention of the Onion Jack. The next largest group, I would say, favour a distinctive Newfoundland flag incorporating in it the Onion Jack; and if you put the two groups together, I would say they represent a lot of pe9ple in this Province,by far the largest majority.

They re­ present - and then if you put all the other people in with these two groups who the committee chose to ignore, the committee went around this Province, and my colleague was one, went around this Province and asked for briefs and asked the people to come out and meet the committee, express their views on a new flag for Newfoundland and the people went and did that, five or six hundred briefs, five or six hundred people turned out to either make an oral presentation or to make a presentation in writing,and then were completely ignored, completely ignored by the committee. MR.

STAGG: Did the hon. member present a brief? MR . NEARY: He, I did not present a brief, but rrry constituents, who appeared before the committee, told the coumi ttee, in no uncertain terms that there were things far more important in New­ foundland to discuss that to waste their time and money on goinq around talking about a flag. And :r remembe;r the - AN. HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. s. NEARY: to be hard to take, it is going to be hard to take. But, Mr. Speaker, 3369

May s. 1980 Tape No. 1275 EL - 2 MR. S. NEARY: these hearings cost alot more than the chairman is leading the people of this Province to believe. A lot more because he is not including in his $8,000 the cost of the govern­ ment aircraft. The hen. gentleman the other day said, 'Oh, it is peanuts, the amount that was spent,' holding these hearings was peanuts when in actual fact it was probably up closer~to $70,000 or $80,000. I would say a minimum of fifty, somewhere between $50,000 and $80,000. AN. HON. MEMBER: Do I hear forty . Do I hear thirty? MR. S.

NEARY: The hon. gentleman will go down in history, will go down in history as being the man that hauled down the Union Jack in this Province and substituted it with a design,with a flag that is totally unacceptable to 99 per cent of the people of this Province. MR. WARREN: Right on! You had better stop (inaudible) •. MR. S. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, as I started to say, that does not mean that there are not a lot of people in this Province. who want a distinctive Newfoundland flag, but they do not want that one.

They do not want it,and if the message has not filtered through now to the members and to the government 1 it will in due course. People argue 1 and rightly so,that there is no warmth, They can have no feeling for that design~ It leaves everf­ body cold. A flag must convey feeling and warmtb and affection, and people must love it and have affection for it. How can you love that and have affection for it? How could you every think about laying down your life for a bunch of triangles?

A design that looks like it was done by somebody who took out a geometry set and drew a bunch of triangles or somebody tipped over a bottle of ink and spread it around. Mr. Speaker, I am not going to take too much time today on ~~e Provincial flag. I merely want to say for the benefit of those people who thought that the debate was starting today that it will start tomorrow,and the reason the government are so anxious 3370

May S, 1980 Tape No. 1275 EL - 3 MR. S • NJ;:ARY : to get the debate going right away is they want to head o~f controversy. They are afraid that their cwn crow4 will bolt · ranks. They are afraid t.hat · their own crowd will chicken out when their constituents get at t.'>lem. They are afraid their own crowd will weaken,and so the strategy the government has adopted 1wh:ich is contemptible, in my opinion 1 and an 3371

Ma.y 5, 1980 Tape No. 1276 NM- 1 MR. NEARY: indication of how arrogant this government has become in a short time 1 the strate~y that they have developed is, "Get it through the House as fast .as you can. Get it over and done with, head off controversy," when they already caused the most savage controversy on an issue that if they went out of their way, if they deliberately set out to create an issue, to cause controversy in this Province they could not have done better. So, Mr. Speaker, the first item then I want to deal with is the cost of the Committee going around the Province - MR. MOORES: Squandering. MR.

NEARY: Well,wasting, certainly, I do not know about squandering, but wasting the taxpayers' money as they were told that ny the Chairman of the Brotherhood ox Railway Clerks in Port aux Basques.

He ended up his brief by saying something like this, and I am summarizing it, I do not have the brief in front of me, I have it home, by saying, "Well now,I am going to go back to work so I can earn more money, so that I can pay more taxes, so that you people can go around the Province spending it and wasting it." He said, "Surely there are far more important things that need to be debated in the House of Assembly, and far more important reasons for establishing select committees of this House" - AN HON. MEMBER: They are getting famous for spending taxpayers' moneyr MR.

NEARY: -or for wasting it- "than ·going around wasting their ~e on a matter of the flag~ The hidden costs, Mr. Speaker, to which I refer are the helicopters, the helicopters that were used to carry Committee members around Labrador . That is one of the hidden costs. They used the helicopters that were under charter to the Newfoundland government, the Department of Forestry, the Department of Transportation. 3372

ll!. May 5, 1980 Tape No. 1276 NM - 2 MR. NEARY: So, therefore, these charges will not show up anywhere as being a charge against · the Flag Committee. It will be a hidden cost. helicopter flying time AN HON. MEMBER: MR. NEARY: Probably $25,000 or $30,000 worth of Talk about the Public Accounts Committee. - that will not be charged as directly against the Committee but will be charged against the Department of Forestry and the Department of Transportation. Then there is the government aircraft.

I do not know how much it costs everytime they take that aircraft out of the hangar down at Torbay and go across this Island, but I would submit, Mr. Speaker, that the cost from St. John's probably to Deer Lake or Stephenville return would be somewherE in the vicinity of $5,000 to $6,000. How many times have they used government aircraft? How many trips? Once? Oh, Mr. SpeakeL, far more than that. So add that on to the cost, that will be a hidden cost, because we can never get the log of the people that use and travel on the government air­ craft. So put it all together, Mr.

Speaker, and it amounts to a substantial amount of money, a substantial amount. And the hen. member for St. John's North (Mr. J. Carter), who is trying to leave the impression that it is only a trivial amount, should be man enough to admit, should have the courage to admit to the people of this Province that it costs a fair amount of money, $50,000, or $60,000 or $70,000 to go around holding public hearings and then 1 after putting peo~le to the trouble and inconvenience of having to appear before the committee,then they completely ignore them, completely ignored the wishes of the people, and went to Mr.

Christopher Pratt who used to be - I do not know what he is now - used to be a Tory heckler at one time a.• poiitical rallies. He was sent in as a heckler at political rallies. But he is an artist. He is 3 3'7 3

May s, 1gso Tape No . 1276 HR . NEARY: an artist. He cannot help it if he is a Tory . Ee is an artist. And the Committee went to him and said , "Mr. Pra tt,will you make us a design?" And ha said, *- 3' "Ye s, 1 will ma!te a design but '"'hen 1 give it to you you are not to make any changes in it. Take it or leave it . Like it or lump it . No changes in the flag ." And 1 do not !<now why my colleagues and why the Committ ee succumbed to the wishes of Mr . Pra tt. ... 3374 ,., ~

May 5, 1980 Tape No. 1277 DW 1 t1R. S. NEARY: put up with that nonsense. I do not know why they had to It is the committee that had to make the recommendation. If we wanted to employ Mr. Pratt we would have done so in this House. And the committee had no right to be dictated to by that individual as they were, much to my chagrin. I am disappointed and hurt that they could not stand up to one Mr. Pratt and that he came along with his design,which is the monstrosity,we saw unveiled in the House last Tuesday, a week ago tomorrow, a sad day in Newfoundland's history indeed, and said, 'There it is.

Take it or leave it~ No changes, no amendment~ You can .. not change it! That is it, take it or leave it~' Never mind those who want the Onion Jack, never mind those who want a combination of the Union Jack and something else, never mind those who want the Pink,White and Green, never mind those who want the gold, never mind those people who want the Newfoundland Coat of Arms in it or the Pitcher Plant, ignore all of them! Ignore them! They are only people~ They are only the people who want to fly a flag in this Province. Ignore the Canadian Legion, ah, they are dwelling in the past.

All they can think about is war. That is what I heard this morning on one of the open line programmes, 'All the Canadian Legion can think about is war'. It is enough to make you sit down and cry. ~ feel like weeping when I hear statements like that. One gentleman-! was talking to Corner Brook last ~· night. Theycalled me and said, 'Can you come over tomor- ·- ·-· row morning and talk about the fla~ on the open line2 I said, , 'Sure'. One gentleman came on and I had the impression I was talking to a teenager. He was saying, Oh, the young people this and the young people that'.

I finally ended up - I thought he was A little teanageer, hardly any older than my oldest daughter who is fifteen - and I said, 'How old are you, Sir'. He said, 'I am thirty- 3375

May 5, 1980 Tape No. 1277 ow - 2 MR. S. NEARY; six', and I said, 'Oh, IllY God, a senior citizen'. He tried to leave the impression that he was a teenager. The West Coast, by the way, is savage against this. Ah, the han. minister shakes her head and says,no,they are not, well,I can tell the hon. minister they are, they are savage against this flag. The hen. lady would do well to vote a~ainst this flag. Vote against it! Mr. Speaker, I hope that I will never hear these statements made again, 'All the Canadian Legion can think about is war'. Just imagine, Mr.

Speaker, a group of men and women who rallied around the flag, who rallied around the Union Jack that we are all proud of.- where~er you go in the world and you see the union Jack flying,you are proud of it, it is the most beautiful flag in the world - they rallied around it at a time when the freedom of the world was being threat- , ened by a madman over in Europe, threatened by a madmenr and I do not know but we have ancther·madman in this Province, the hen. member for St. John's North (Mr. Carter) who would dare haul down the Union Jack and leave the Canadian Legion open for this kind of abuse.

The han. gentleman has not come to their rescue 1 I am coming to their rescue now. And· volunteered, there was no conscrip- tion in this Province, their services to go and fight for King and Country,to keep the world free so that we could have nincompoops, so that ·we could have intelligent people, intellects, so that we could have educated people, so that we could have poor people and rich people and so that we could have all kinds of people, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom from fear, 3376

May 5, 1980 Tape No. 1277 DW - 3 NR. S. NEARY : freedom to allow nincompoops to roam around the Province at will -in government air­ crafts and helicopters at public expense and then ignore the people they ask to come and make recommendations to them. These are the warmongers we are hearing about now 3377

May 5, 1980 Tape No. 1278 EL-l MR. NEARY: on the open line programs, 'They can only think of war'. Who was it said that you have to reflect on the past in order to know where you are going in the future? MR. THOMS: is where I (inaudible). MR. NEARY: I am only worried about the future. That Now, the hon. gentleman is only wo~ied about the future - haul down all the - MR. THOMS: of my life. That is where I am going to spend the rest MR. NEARY: Haul down all the traditions and all the heritage in this Province. Haul it all down and open her up and let her go to the four winds. MR. THOMS: I did not say that. MR.

NEARY: I hope I will never hear that kind of an argument again, Mr. Speaker, I cannot help but get emotional over this issue. My fat~er happened to be a veteran ·of the First War. He is dead now. AN HON. MEo.'ffiER : Where were you in '45? MR. NEARY: Where was I in '45? I was in the same place the hon. gentleman was in '39. Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. gentleman is taking this matter too lightly.

Emotions are running high in this Province, Sir, and I am . not going to make my speech on the flag now, but I cannot help but getting upset, upset at the arrogant way, at how flippant the hon. gentleman is about the whole matter. On the whole, I will end up this particular part of my - AN HON. MEMBER: It is a big joke to him. MR. NEARY: Yes, it is a big joke to him - end up this particular part of my remarks by saying that I would like to see eiL~er the flag laid on the Table of the House or a referendum held in this Province and let the people decide whether they want that design or not. MR.

WARREN: Now, that is a good idea. MR . NEARY: And do not force it down their throats. One thing you can say for the Union Jack, if you do not like it, if you 3378

May 5, 1980 Tape No. 1278 EL-2 MR. NEARY: want to haul it down and trample it in the mud, and if you want to argue that we are exploited under the Union Jack, or we did not get a fair shake under the UnioL Jack, or we did not get this under the Union Jack, or we did not get that under the Union Jack, but, by God, one thing you will have to say, that you were free under the Union Jack. AN !iON. MEMBER: Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: If you cannot say anything else about it, you can say you were free. That is what people went and fought for, not that they were encouraging war.

They were the last ones on the face of this earth who ever thought they would ever have to go to war. AN HON. MEMBER: though! MR. NEARY: It does not mean much to them over there, No, it does not mean much to them. The Canadian Legion is just a big joke now to this crowd, just a big joke. I hear one member say, 'Ah, they are dying out, they are a dying breed, they will soon be all gone'. I heard that said. And I think it is shameful and contemptible and I hope now that that kind of debate, that kind of dialogue will end now, end forever.

And if we are going to debate a flag, let us debate it man-fashion: Is the design a good one or is it not a good one? That is the question we have to address ourselves to. Not whether this group are for it - the RC's are against it, the Protestants are for it, the Legion are against it, the Orangemen are for it, tha~ is not the argument at all. Oh no, not the argument, Mr. Speaker. The government is allowing themselves to get sucked into that kind of a debate. That is not it. It is not Tory, it is not Liberal. It is a matter of getting the right design for this Province. And what we should aim for, Mr.

Speaker, we should aim for fifty-one per cent of the people to be in favour of a flag. You cannot get everybody. The counter­ argument to that is, I have heard members of this House say ah, you cannot get a flag that everybody will agree with. Well, so what? Get one that the 3379

May 5, 1980 Tape .No. 1278 EL - 3 MR. S. NEARY: majority will agree with. Do not get one that ninety-eight or ninety-nine per cent of the people are against. Do not do that. Because if you do, I am afraid, Mr. Speaker, with that kind of attitude, with that kind of philosophy, and that kind of a policy of forcing it on the people whether they like it or not and that flag will never fly over this Province. Now, Mr.

Speaker, is I may refresh hon. gentlemen's memories, the bottom line, which seems to be the popular word these days, the bottom line in the Budget Speech was'live within your means.' The Minister of Finance (J. Collins) told us that the Budget and the Budget Speech was designed to force Newfoundlanders to live witl1in thier means. It was a live within your means Budqet, we were told by the Minister of Finance. In my opinion, Mr.Spealter, it was a starve the people budget. · Not a live 3360

Ma y 5,1980 Tape No. 1279 AH-1 MR. NEARY: within your means, but starve the people Budget. One of the first things they did in the Budget was to cut capital expenditure by over $50 million • Are hen. gentleman aware of what that will do to the construction industry in this Province? Are hen. gentlemen aware of what this will do, this cut of $50 million will do to communities where they have no drinking water, where the sewerage is squeezing up between the ir toes? Are hen. gentlemen aware of what this cut of $50 million in Capital Works will do for couples in this Province who want to c~v.• a new home?

Are they aware of the consequences , the impact that these cuts will have on the cons~Jction industry and housing especially? And above all, Mr. Speaker, are han. gentlemen aware, especially on the government benches 1about what these cuts are going to do to roads in this Province? The roads are in worse condition in this Province right now than they have been,I would say, in fifteen years. Do not give them roads, do not give them wate~ and sewerage, do not give them houses~ give them cake, give them a flag.

Have a flag fly over a Province that has record unemployment, the highest cost of living in Canada, ever increasing electricity rates, no fishery policy, potholes. As a friend of mine said on Bell Island the other night_ : that when you go down in a pothole in Newfoundland you have to blow your horn in case there is somebody else down there. Go down in a pothole and you blow your horn in Newfoundland so that everybody can get out of your way down in the pothole. AN HON.MEMBER: MR. NEARY: pothole. And when you are coming up. And when you are coming up out of that Mr.

Speaker, I would submit that this is going to be a pretty rough year in this Province for the Minister of Transportation and Communications (Mr. Brett), it is going to be a long, hot Summer indeed because roads have a very, very low priority on the government's list of expenditure in the next several months, in the next construction season. You will have more demonstrations, you will have 3381

Hay 5,1980 Tape No. 1279 AH-2 MR. NEARY: more picket lines in this Province than you are having now over in Iran 7 more protes-c.s than you have over in London where they have the Iranian embassy barricaded. You will almost have blood spilled in this Province, Mr. Speaker, because of the government's policy of not going ahead and reconstructing and repairing and improving roads in this Province. Roads, Mr. Speaker, roads. Up to the time the member for St. John's North (Mr.

J.Carter) went out and got the Province all upset over a flag 1 I would say roads are probably the biggest political vote-getter in the Province. AN HON.MEMBER: MR. NEARY: say that. AN HON .MEMBER: MR. NEARY• Next to recreation. No, not next to recreation. I would not '(Inaudible) all by themselves. And the thing that is closer to people' s hearts in communities where women cannot hang their clothes an the clotheslines because of the dust and the mud. You think the hon. member woul.d be concerned about that. You would think that the hon. member \ would be concerned that one of her colleagues this morning 3382

May s, 1980 Tape No. 1280 NM- 1 MR. NEARY: strongly condemned the government for not giving a grant for a trans .ition house to look after battered wives. AN HON. MEMBER: Female chauvinism. MR. NEARY: You would think the hon. minister would be concerned about that sort of policy. Never mind wasting time on foolish flags. You would think the hon. minister would be concerned about that. A transition house - how much would it cost? Probably cost about the same amount as it did to send the Flag Committee around Newfoundland, a transition house for battered wives.

I have not heard the hon. minister raise that in this House yet. MR. HOLLETT: At the bingo, she says. MR. NEARY: I am all for that sort of thing. Is that what the hon. minister is referring to when she says, "Leave it to the men. u MR. HOLLETT: That is right. MR. Rl:SCOCK: Hang out their clothes. MR. NEARY : Oh yes, they cannot hang their clothes out on the lines. I do not know if the hon. Minister of Education (Ms Verge) has ever had that experience or not. But we had it when we were on Bell Island. AN BON. MEMBER: MR.~: MR. WHITE: got them. MR. NEARY: She puts it in the dryer. Long before I became a member.

Still a lot of people in the district Some people over there still have it. They have it in Fogo district, they have it in St. Mary's district, they have it in- MR. HISCOC!t: MR.~: MR . HISCOCK: MR. NEARY: We do not have roads. Well,you have the road to Red Bay. A little bit. The road to Red Bay, but there are not many people live on that. You have got it in Bonavista North. You have got it in Carbonear district. And,of course 1they have no roads up in- 3363

--- -·---- May 5, 1980 Tape No. 1280 GH-J, MR. WARREN: They have not even got a radio up there. MR. NEARY: They have not even got a radio, that is right. Nothing sets the devil in people more, Mr. Speaker, nothing sets the devil in Newfoundlanders more than to have to drive their cars over a road that is like a washboard, full of potholes, a road that is unpaved, a road that is full of mud and dirt and stones flying up around the windshield and the fenders of the car and women trying to hang their clothes out on tne clothesline. My han. friend is on his third windshield now, the member for St.

Mary's and the Capes (Mr. Hancock). And so, Mr. AN HON. MEMBER: MR. HANCOCK: MR. NEARY: 'i'he Capes? Oh, oh! MR. HANCOCK: of it. MR. NEARY: All the roads are paved in St. Mary's-The Capes . . 0.11 the what? All the roads are paved in St. Mary's- You should go there and make a rise out Mr. Speaker'· I would say this is going to be a long, hot Summer in this Province of demonstrations and strikes and barricades. You will see barricades going up now when the weather gets warm all over Newfoundland. I remem~er one time the han. Mr. Crosbie, when he was in this House, ~dvocated civil disobedience. MR. HANCOCK: MR.

NEARY: MR.. HANCOCK: ignorant (inaudible). MR. NEARY: Is that 'Bully Boy' - 'Bully Boy' said - - the one who calls all Newfoundlanders That is right, advocated civil disobedience in this Province. Well, you will not have to foster it this Summer. You will not have to advocate it this Summer. It is going to be there whether we like it or not. It is going to be a long, hot Summer, Mr. Speaker, and I feel sorry for the Minister of Transportation and Communications (Mr.

Brett), but I feel more sorry for ~~e construction workers in this Province who will not be able to find a job this Summer as a result of the government's penny-wise and pound-foolish policy. How many trucks will be laying idle this Summer? Ho~ many carpenters will not be working this Summer because of the cutback in construction, on roads and bridges and 3384

May 5, 1980 Tape No . 1280 GH-3 MR. NEARY: h0uses? How many electricians will have to line up in front of the we.l;fare offices? How ma.ny plumbers ~ hbW many bricklayers and masons and how many finish carpenters, who do gyprocingi' how many, Mr. Speaker, this yeax will not be able to find employment in :;. this Province? We will have that monstros;ity, if the government have their way, we will have that :flying on the flagpoles, and we will have everybody down lined up in front of the unemployment office or the welfaxe office. AN HON. MEMBER: They will nave a little flag in their hands.

MR .• NEARY: Tr£y will all be standing there with their little flag in their hands as my hon. friend says, 3385

~ay 5, 1980 Tape No. 1281 SD - 1 ~ffi. S, NEARY: showing the colours, waving ~~e flag, here I am. I had this flag forced on me by the Tory Government but I can not get a job, I can not properly feed my children, I can not properly clothe them, I can not properly educa~e them. We do not have any drinking water, ·.•e have got to drive over roads that are full of potholes. We can not build a house because we can not get a low cost building lot.

The government have created this boom atmosphere and all of the scavengers and the land grabbers from every part of the world have now come into thi& Province and have driven up the cost of real estate so we can not build a home. None of this, Mr. Speaker, we will have none of this but we will have a new flag. we can all rally around the new flag, starve the people budget. No harm to say, Mr. Speaker, that Tory times are hard times indeed. It is hard to understand their policy, Mr. Spe~er.

They have managed, I suppose, in the last seven years to successfully distract the"Newfoundl~nd people from the real ~ssues that are facing this Province. They have managed to distract-when l!oores was over there, when Moores was there he blarred everything on Joey Smallwood and what he did not blame on Joey Smallwood he blamed it on John c. Doyle. And now we have got a Premier over there who will not even acknowledge that there was a Moores administration for seven years, he will not even acknowledge that. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh. MR. S.

NEARY: Where you had a Premier who was an embezzler, and a thief and a crook and the present Premier sat in the Cabinet and did not resign from the Cabinet,went along with that and said, "I did not do it for myself, I stayed in the Cabinet because of poor old Newfoundland." stayed there for seven years, not for himself mind you, stayed there because he thought this would be good for Newfoundland. They have been following a course of confrontation for the past seven yeil;l's.

Attack~ Attack everybody in sight, attack everything in sight, ·attack Ottawa, attack 'Joey', attack this one, attack that one, attack the Opposition. 'l'hey have never ever gotten 3386

May 5, 1980 Tape No . 1281 so- 2 MR. S. NEARY: over the fact, Mr. Speaker, that they were elected to govem this Provinc;e, that they do not have to attack anybody, they have to establish their own record. They have to blaze the trail themselves, they have to establish a record. Seven years later, January 18th, 1972, when they took over in this Province, not one industry, no economic develop!!ient worthwhile in this Province. All we hear about is oil and gas, the .Northem cod stock, attack Ottawa, attack Rene Levesque, attack Joey Smallwood, attack the present Leader of the Opposition (Mr. D.

Jamieson), at~ck the Opposition and do nothing positive to establish a record for themselves. Their credibility is starting to wea ·r very thin, Mr. Speaker, in this Province. MR. WARREN: Ina udible } MR. S. NEARY: The hon. gentlemen may think-but they are .living in a fools paradise - they may think the strategy i.s working but the word is filtering out to the people of this Province, the word is filtering out, Mr.

Speaker, that this crowd have done nothing positive, anr doing nothing positive to come to grips with the real problems that are facing the ordinary people of this Provin~. namely, the oost of livin .g, reoord unemployment, the cost of electricity the cost of gas and heating fuel, vandalism and crime· and did I 11:ention electricity rates? 3387

May 5, 1980 Tape 1282 "EC - l MR. S. NEARY: ~U::. Speaker, these are the real problems that are facing Newfoundlanders today. And the government $Omehow or other think that as long as they can distract the population with flags and oil and gas that nobody is going to recognize what the real issues are in this Province at the present time. But as I said a few moiDI!nts ago, Mr.

Speaker, the man who goes to look for a job this Spring, the construction worker, the labourer, the electrician, the truck driver, the heavy equipment operator, the carpenter, the carpenter's helper, the mason, the bricklayer, the roofer, all. these people,when they go to look for employment this year, it will suddenl.y dawn on them that this government have been all talk and no action. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. S. NEARY: All. they have managed to do with all this talk about gas and oil is to drive up the cost of living for the people of this Province. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

WARREN: TWenty per cent, too. MR. S • NEARY : The highest in Canada last month, The cost of living escalated in Newfoundl.and higher than in any other province of Canada. And you know what drove it up - the cost of real estate and the cost of food and clothing, the basic essentials. MR. R. .MOORES: That is right. MR. S, NEARY: People in this Province cannot live without it -:- brought on bY: a government;. that has created a boom syndrome. MR. D. HOLLETT: And then the member for Burgeo - Bay d' Espoir (Mr. H. Andrews) h&s to get up and say he supports the flag. MR. S • NEARY.!. MR. D, HOLLE'rl': MR. B.

TULJ:: forward by Mr. Rove. MR. D. HOLLET'i': MR. G. WAP.REN: MR. S • NEARY , Yes, supports the flaq. He has to stand up and tell everybody. But he will not support the resolution put Would that not sicken you? Yes. It is &hocking. This atmosphere of prosperity and boom is brought about by a goverr.ment, Mr. Speaker, who are living in a fool's paradise. If the oil boom ever comas - and we are qetting conflicting stories about that 3388

May 5, 1980 Tape 1282 EC - 2 MR. S • NEARY : these days; it has been moved ahead a year, moved ahead a couple of years - if and when it ever comes it will only affect a certain group of people in thif!l Province. MR. WARREN: Inside St. John's. MR. S. NEARY: Inside the overpass. It certainly will not affect the majority of the people in this Province. It will not have much effect 1iown in Burgeo or Ramea or Grey River or Francois. It will not have very much effect down in St. Alllan's, the head of Bay d'Espoir.

It will not have very much effect in Port aux Basques or Rose Slanche or Isle aux Morts or Burnt Islands or Margaree or Fox Roost or Harbour Le Cou. It will not have very much effect, I ·.rould submit, Mr. Speaker, in most of Newfoundland outside the Avalon Peninsula and the 1110st of thAt would be in the St. John's area. So they are putting all their eggs in cne basket. They are gambling Newfoundland's future like a drunken sailor down in Las Veqas would do. That is what they are doing. MR. R. MJORES : MR. S. NEARY; SOME HON • MEMBERS : MR. S • NEARY: Or & drunken politician in Las Vegas.

Or a drunken politician in Las Vegas. Oh, ohl They are gambling with Newfoundland's future, Mr. Speaker, and if they lose it is going to be a pretty expensive gamble indeed. It will be a disaster for Newfoundland. Mr.

Speaker, probably the point that I am trying to make is that the issues that concern the people of this Province are being shoved into the background deliberately by this government who follow a pattern of dragging in red herrings in debates both inside and outside the House, by attempting to continuously distract the Newfoundland people from their own worries and from the real concerns and the real problems that are facing our people. I realize, Mr.

Speaker, that we are living in very difficult times 1 I am well aware of that, and I am making a speech here today in a background, I suppose, of a situation in the world the likes of which we have never seen in our lives. Anything at all could trigger a 'l:hird ~rorld War, Mr. Speaker. We have all kinds of unrest. You can hardly 3389 .

May 5, 1980 Tape 1182 EC - 3 MR. S. NEARY: turn on your television or your radio or read a newspaper today without being struck by the amount of bad news that 3390

May 5, 1980, Tape 1283, Page 1 -- apb MR. NEARY: comes at you from the announcer or from the newspaper. You have Canada itself in that background of turbulence in the world, Canada threatened to be divided and disunited. You have one of th_e largest provinces of Canada threatening to separate, have a referendum in a few days to decide 'yes' or 'no' whether they should leave Confederation. You have that sort of thing going on. You have Canada taking a decision not to send atheletes to the Olympics in Moscow. And you know, Mr. Speaker, that raises a very interesting question at this particular point.

I want to talk about that decision by the Canadian Gove~nment and the Olympic Committee, not to send athletes to Moscow. I think it was the right decision, it was a good decision but, Mr. Speaker, I am awfully, awfully concerned about the fact that the atheletes have to pay the price when the government had at their disposal other means, economic means, pressure that they could have brought to bear on the Russians. And we have in this Province, Mr. Speaker, a means whereby pressure could be brought to bear on the Russians, by stopping their landing rights in Gander.

Now, han. gentlemen - the member for Gander (Mrs. Newhook) was sitting in her seat, it may give her a little bit of a jolt to say, 'Stop the Russians from landing in Gander and refuelling in Gander'. And why not? If the situa~ion is serious enough that we do not want to send our athletes to Moscow, is it not serious enough to say 'No'toMoscow and to Russia,'we are not going to allow your planes to go through Gander'? All it means ·for Gander, Mr. Speaker, so I am told, and I would not 3391

May 5, 1980, Tape 1283, Page 2 -- apb MR. NEARY: make this state~ent without researching it, all it does for Gander is to create three of four jobs for an outfit called CARA, which is not even a Newfoundland company, a catering company in Gander. The fuel trucks were going to be there anyway. And they have a couple of apartments rented for Russian crews in Gander. Apart from that it contributes nothing to the econamy of Gander.

And I do not blame some of the athletes and some of the organizers for being upset with a government that said no to the athletes and then ignored bringing economic sanctions against Russia by telling them, 'No, you are not landing in Gander. Get out of Gander'. Mr. Speaker, it would not affect the economy of Gander in the slightest. AN HON. MEMBER: (inaudible) traitor talk. MR. NEARY: Kind of a traitor. I am a traitor now, I suppose. It would not affect the economy of Gander in the slightest to give the Russians the heave ho, the shirttail run, out!

Them may sound like fighting words but I mean it, do not take it out on the athletes if you do not intend - how hypocritical can we be? Take it out on the ath~etes but allow the planes to 'sail into Gander and get the low-cost gas, get refuelled, go on on their journey and all Gander gets out of it is a few jobs with a catering company that is not even a Newfoundland company. The gas trucks are going to be there anyway. No new jobs there ~~~ they rent a couple of apartments from some real estate outfit in Gander. Now that is the extent of their contribution to the economy of Gander. And so, Mr.

Speaker, I would say it is about time that we got rid of this double standard 3392

11ay 5, 1980 Tape No. 1284 DW - 1 MH. S. NEARY : and stop these Russian air- craft from landing in Gander, cut out their landing riahts in Gander, do not allow them to come in there. MR. J. CARTER: You said that. Say something else. MR. S. NEARY: Yes, and I will go a step further and I am going to say something else to~ that I heard the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) and I heard the Premier of this Province bellyaching about the foreigners fishing both inside and outside the 200 mile limit, abus=ng their privileges and one of the biggest culprits in this particular matter are .the Russians.

And we open up our ports and open up our homes with open arms to the Russians. They have the whole world on the brink of war, they have the whole world in turmoil. And Canada says, big Canada, big-hearted Canada says, 'Oh, no the athletes cannot go to Moscow but the Russians can land their planes and bring their'ships into Newfoundland ports, bring them in! Russian ships in here, Mr. Speaker - We .do not need the MR. HOLLETT: MR. S. NEARY: the synchrolift. AN HON. MEMBER: MR.S. NEARY: We do for the synchrolift. My hen. friend says we do for Oh, that is the reason.

Well, if that is the reason for bringing them in here I would say, 'God help the synchro­ lift. God help the synchrolift: that is what I would sa~ Because the first sign of trouble and strife in the world, they will be gone like a shot out of a gun. We used to have the Germans in here bef?re the First World War, Bell Island was one of the big suppliers of raw material for the blast furnaces in Germany before the war and after the war too.

They used to take Bell Island ore and they came back in 1941 and 1942 and torpedoed four ships right off Bell Island and the Russians will do the same thing. 3393 .;. --- ----- - -

l4ay 5, 1980 Tape No. 1284 D~l - 2 MR. S. NEARY: · I hope, Mr. Speaker, there is nobody in this House who thinks that the Russians are doing Newfoundland a favour by using our ports. AN HON. MEMBER: They want the Northern cod. MR.S. NEARY: They want aceess to our cod stock, especially our Northern cod. Mr. McGrath, I used to hear him bellyaching when he was Minister of Fisheries for a few months up in Ottawa when he had it all in his own hands. He coUld have cancelled their licences and driven them out of the Atlantic ports, ports on the Atlantie Seaboard- MR. L. STIRLING: He did not do it. MR. S.

NEARY: No, he did not do it and I doubt now if our friend, as good as he ;s 1 Mr. La~nde will do i~ and he is pretty good - MR. L. STIRLING: Mr. LeBlanc. MR. S. NEARY: Mr. LeBlanc rather,I doubt if he will do it. But, Mr. Speaker, it makes one wonder sometimes.

And when you are into a debate like this where you have all the time you want ahead of you, no restrictions, although the government have tried to muzzle the Opposition, they have managed to move the Estimates off the floor of the House, they have limited and restricted debate in the House, fortu- nately,today, I ami~ a position where I can go on forever, as long as I want. Whatever I have on my chest ~ can get it off now.r was never in a better position in my life in this House than I am today.

I probably will not get the opportunity to do it again but I guarantee you while I have the opportunity I have a few things that I want to say and I am going to ·-· -- -·. say. Because we hear so often about Newfoundland being in a stategic position - that was one of our aain points, by the way, that Newfoundland should have gotten more benefits out of Confederation because we are the gateway to the Atlantic, 3394 Ju..

May 5 1980 Tape No. 1284 DW - 3 MR. S. NEARY: we are strategically located out in the middle of the Atlantic. This old rock happens to be very strategically located and when the Government ~f Canada wants to assist its ally, the United States, in b:cinging pressure to bear on Russia, to try to get the .m out of Afghanistan, all they can think of is , 'Do not allow the athletes to go! Do not allow them to go when there are other things that they could have done which, put them all together in various parts of the world,could bring the Russians to their knees. Mr . Speaker. I am told - I asked the hon.

Minister of Mines and Energy (Mr. Barry) a question today about his s~atements outside of this Rouse about patrolling Newfoundland and especially the offshore developments. I was not sure if the hon. gentleman was talking about the provincial government having its own army, navy and air force:or if they were going to petition the Government of Canada to in .crease their surveillance in ·their patrolling 3395

May 5, 1980 Tape 1285 EC - 1 MR. S. NEARY: offshore. When I heard the hen. gentleman's answer it was not quite clear to me whether he was trying to get more defence dollars here in Newfoundland or if he was concerned about the offshore development. But I will say this, Mr. Speaker, if the hon. gentleman was talking about getting interceptor fighters in this Province then I would have to agree with him.

Right now when long-range Russian aircraft are picked up on the radar off the Atlantic coast, especially off the coast of Newfoundland, they can leave Russia or Russian dominated countries and they can fly off the coast of Newfoundla."l.d and return to their base without refuelling, Mr. Speaker. Let me repeat that in case Your Honour missed what ! was saying there. Your Honour was preoccupied, probably, with something else.

Long-range Russian bombers can leave their base in Europe or in Russia, fly in off the coast of Newfoundland, have been picked up and are being picked up on the radar, they can inspect their fleet on the Grand Banks or off Labrador or off Greenland and they can turn around and go back to their home base without being refuelled. Or they can be refuelled and are being refuelled in the air. And you know, Mr. Speaker, every time that the military ask for interceptor planes to go out and check on these objects that are picked up on radar, they have to come from Chatham, New Brunswick.

By the time they get to Newfoundland they have to be refuelled and by ~~e time they get out to where the object was sighted, the long-range bombers are turned and gone back home. So if that is what the hon. gentleman is talking about, then I would be inclined to agree with him, that we need interceptor planes on Newfoundland soil and we need to step up our patrolling and our surveillance and the coastguard needs to step up its activities. So if that is what the hon.gentleman was referring to, then I would have to agree with him.

But it is going to be very difficult to get the Government of Canada to agree to do this, to station interceptor planes in Newfoundland when you have a provincial government that are trying to kick them outside the 200 mile limit who are saving to Canada, 'You have no business in here - Newfoundland owns this.' I mean, where do you draw the line? Who is going to be responsible for protecting the offshore? If King 'Brim · gets everything, if King 'Brian' gets it all and there is no revenue going into the Canadian 3396

May s, 1980 Tape 1285 EC- 2 MR. S • NEARY: Treasury, does King 1 Brian 1 then expect the Government of Canada to protect the offshore, to protect our oil reserves and our fishery, to send in the aircorut carriers a.nci the destroyers and the ail:::pla.nes that are necessary to patrol and carry out surveillance of these important resources? Or will the Government of Canada just say to King 'Bri-an' and his knights, 1 1his is your responsibility now. You are qettinq all the revenue. You own it - you say you own it.

Well, now, you patrol it.' And that has been the concern of a lot of people in this Province and outside of this Province all along. King 'Brian' and his knights, if they own the resource, if they talte all the revenue, take all the benefits, then how does the bon. the Minister of Mines and Energy (Mr. L. Bar%Yl expect the Government of Canada to patrol the area? 3397

May 5, 1980, Tape 1286, Page 1 -- apb MR. NEARY: Will the hon. gentleman then have his own air force and his own navy? Is this the intention behind this flag? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh: MR. BARRY: (Inaudible) British Columbia. MR. NEARY: Now, Mr. Speaker, I think I put my finger on the real reason for having this flag, they want their own empire. At the end of the year now King'Brian'will have his own honours list, his own honours roll like the Governor General has up in Ottawa. He will design a medal next.

The next thing you will see now is a provincial medal for bravery and for outstanding contributions to the Province. And at the end of every year there will be an honour roll. MR. BARRY: There will be a medal of honour and the first one for who has spent the most hours in the House of Assembly listening to you. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh: MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the people of this Province are beginning to realize that not only is the hon. gentleman rather naive, but he is also a little bit nasty, a nasty individual. He is also very nasty. That word seems to be coming through these days. Arrogant and nasty.

And it is too bad because MR. HANCOCK: Very little class. MR. NEARY: That is right. And so they will have their own medals, they will have their own awards that will be given out every year, they will have their own army and their own air force and their own navy. And you know, Mr. Speaker, Your Honour has a smile on his face and I do not blame Your Honour for smiling because - 3398

May 5, 1980, Tape 1286, Page 2 -- apb MR. SPEAKER(Sinuns) : I always smile. MR. NEARY: - that may sound far- fetched, Your Honour, but with the - I was going to say the anti-Canadian feeling that is being pushed in this Province at the present time by King 'Brian' and his Knights and their little army of separatists making Rene Levesque look like a rank amateur. That is what they are doing, Mr. Speaker. I will tell you right now the flag is the beginning. SOME EON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please~ MR.

NEARY: It will only be a matter of time when we will have a very strong separatist movement in this Province. We have it already. It is in a mild stage right now. We will have a separatist movement in this Province and King 'Brian' and hi~ knights and their little band of separatists will set up their own empire. ·And if that does not happen, if Quebec decides to separate and they are successful in their move to separate, well, then, that creates a lot more problems for Newfoundland, Mr. Speaker, more headaches than we realize. We may have to take a look South of the border.

If we cannot have our own empire with King 'Brian~ we may have to look South of the border. Maybe someday my han. friend's dream will come true. MR . JAMIESON: It took a long time. MR. NEARY: It took a long time, over thirty-five years but his dreams or aspirations may come true. MR. JAMIESON: MR. NEARY: today. MR. JAMIESON: My former dreams and aspirations. Former dreams, rnaybe,not so No. 3399

May 5, 1980, Tape l286, Page 3 -- apb MR. NEARY: Former dreams and aspirations may come true and we may have to take a look at economic union or some kind of political union with the United States in the event that Canada separates. It is something we have to think about very seriously in this Province, Mr. Speaker. And I know I will be accused tomorrow now of rambling all over the countryside talking about world affairs, but world , affairs, Mr. Speake·r, do have a direct bearing and influence on this Province.

We have the fisher)·, we have the richest fishing grounds in the world and we are going to have the second largest, I am told, oil well in the world, offshore. The biggest one is in Mexico, the second largest one is in Newfoundland, off the coast of Newfoundland. MR. YOUNG: agree with that. MR. NEARY: I thought you did not I did not agree with what? And so the attention of the whole world is going to be ·on Newfoundland the same as it is on Saudi Arabia and Iran. And then, as I have said, w~ have Newfoundland a stepping stone to Europe; Russian planes going through, Russian ships into our ports.

So anybody who says, 'Well, Neary is rambling all over the countryside' , I think I am making a lot of common sensey and I gave a lot of thought to these matters. 3400

May 5, 1980 Tapa No. 1287 SD - 1 MR. S • NEARY: J•n d I get myself pretty well steamed up when I hear about the athl