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April 12, 1990

34th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

ORDERS OF THE DAY

PRIVATE MEMBERS’ PUBLIC BUSINESS

ASSISTANCE TO FARMERS

CHILDREN’S MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES

ASSISTANCE TO FARMERS

CHILDREN’S MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

PLANT CLOSURES

GERRY CROWE

SISTERS OF ST JOSEPH

WORKERS’ COMPENSATION BOARD

INMATES’ MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES

LARISSA LOWING AND LISA FLOOD

RENT REGULATION

UKRAINAN CATHOLIC CHURCH

MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS

STATEMENT BY THE MINISTRY

BUDGET

RESPONSES

BUDGET

ORAL QUESTIONS

AUTOMOBILE INSURANCE

SOCIAL ASSISTANCE

CARDIOVASCULAR CARE

AUTOMOBILE INSURANCE

AMBULANCE SERVICES

COMMERCIAL CONCENTRATION LEVY

PLANT CLOSURE

CORPORATE TAX

WASTE DISPOSAL

HOME CARE

GREAT LAKES WATER QUALITY

AUTOMOBILE INSURANCE

CONSTITUTIONAL ACCORD

MOTION

EXTENSION OF HOUSE HOURS

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The House met at 1000.

Prayers.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

PRIVATE MEMBERS’ PUBLIC BUSINESS

ASSISTANCE TO FARMERS

Mr Wildman moved resolution 46:

That, in the opinion of this House, recognizing that difficult financial and trade pressures threaten the viability of Ontario agriculture in 1990 and recognizing that the provincial government must make a significant financial commitment to the preservation, expansion and prosperity of family farming in Ontario in the forthcoming spring budget and recognizing that farmers’ economic success in the 1990s will largely depend upon their ability to access and manage required capital resources and recognizing that Ontario farmers experiencing financial hardship would benefit from provincial government financial guarantees designed to encourage lending institutions to engage in mediation rather than foreclosures the Ontario government should reintroduce, this year, a program of interest rate assistance (similar to the OFFIRR program) with sufficient funding and of adequate duration to bring about meaningful farm interest rate reduction in this province and, further, that the Ontario government should enact legislation similar to Manitoba’s Family Farm Protection Act to assist farmers facing foreclosures by enabling them to renegotiate manageable credit terms.

The Deputy Speaker: The member for Algoma has moved the resolution standing in his name. The member has up to 10 minutes to make his presentation.

Mr Wildman: I introduced this resolution this morning because of the serious financial and trade pressures that are threatening the survival of agriculture in Ontario today, and I believe that the provincial government must make a financial commitment to the preservation and expansion and prosperity of family farming in this budget coming up next month.

Net farm income is projected to decline 6.8 per cent in 1990. This is due to declining cash receipts, increasing operating costs and a significant decline in government payment programs both at the federal and provincial levels. All members will recognize the serious problems facing agriculture because of the so-called free trade agreement with the United States and the current GATT negotiations.

We have all heard the announcement from Ault Foods, for instance, of its problems in competing with processors from south of the border and the need to have the raw product delivered to the processors at prices which are equivalent to the prices in the United States. This problem facing the food processing industry, which I certainly recognize, threatens supply management, and that then is putting further pressure on the prospects for adequate farm incomes, the return on the investment, the management and the labour that all farmers put into their farm operations.

We have these trade pressures on Ontario farming. At the same time the chartered banks’ interest rates have reached 14 1/4 per cent. With the coming imposition of the federal government’s goods and services tax, which will almost inevitably have an increasing effect in inflation, we are likely to see the interest rates pushed even higher after the new year. In Ontario already the long-term farm debt is calculated at $14.7 million, and with the new negotiated shorter renewal intervals for servicing that debt, more and more of the long-term debt is being affected by interest rate changes and fluctuations.

At the same time, the estimated short-term debt of Ontario agriculture is approximately $900 million. So with each one per cent increase in interest rates, the costs of servicing that debt rises approximately $9 million in Ontario.

Yesterday, the Conference Board of Canada suggested that we are going to face in Canada high interest rates for at least two years. The Conference Board does not predict a decline in interest rates for the foreseeable future. Significantly, the spread between the interest rates in Canada and the United States is also increasing, which puts Ontario agriculture at an additional difficulty in competing in the world marketplace. The spread between US rates and Canadian rates right now is approximately 3.5 per cent.

Interestingly, in 1986, when the Ontario family farm interest rate reduction program was in force, the spread at that time between Canadian interest rates and US interest rates was only about one and a half per cent.

So we can see that Ontario agriculture is facing a more difficult time today in regard to interest rates than it did at the time when the former government instituted the OFFIRR program and when this government continued the OFFIRR program after it came into power. Surely if the OFFIRR program was required to assist farmers to finance their investments and their operating costs at that time, it is needed even more today.

I note with interest that the standing committee on finance and economic affairs, which carries on an investigation of budgetary policy for this government and for the Legislature each year prior to the spring budget, has recently come down with a report, and one of its recommendations deals with farm finance. That report indicated, as we all know, that farming is very capital-intensive and that farmers are dependent on debt financing and, as a result, are vulnerable to interest rate fluctuations. The Ontario Federation of Agriculture appeared before that committee and requested a short-term program of interest rate assistance.

I note that on page 36 of that report, which has been tabled in the House, recommendation 33 of the committee, which was a unanimous recommendation, reads as follows, “Government should consider a program, similar to the OFFIRR program, that would demonstrate the government’s commitment to help farmers in times of high interest rate crisis.” That was a unanimous recommendation of members of that committee from all three political parties.

My resolution of course would simply, in the first part of it, implement that recommendation and recommend to the government that it include that kind of assistance program in this year’s budget. In its peak year, OFFIRR paid out $67 million. In my view, any new program should be aimed at lowering interest rates to an effective level of eight per cent for farmers. That would mean that the minimum amount that should be budgeted for a new program should be at least $50 million, even though I recognize that at the $50 million level that would probably not be sufficient to lower rates effectively to eight per cent.

But at least we should be looking at $50 million in this year’s budget. I think such a program should be in effect as long as interest rates remain high in Canada, and I believe sincerely that the need for this kind of interest rate reduction assistance is immediate and is necessary now.

The other part of my resolution deals with those hard-hit farmers who face foreclosures. I am proposing that a mechanism be developed, either through legislation or otherwise, which would assist Ontario farmers to benefit from government action to avoid foreclosures. I am suggesting that the government should consider enacting a law similar to Manitoba’s Family Farm Protection Act, which would assist farmers in danger of losing their farms to foreclosure.

In my view, the government of Ontario should provide financial guarantees which would encourage lending institutions to engage in mediation rather than foreclosures and should provide a hearing mechanism, if necessary, to enable that process to work. The financial guarantees would amount to $10,000 annually in guarantees, and this guarantee could be applied to a mortgage, to land leases or to operating costs.

These guarantees should be available for up to five years because I believe that the need for protection against foreclosure is going to become more and more serious as interest rates rise and as farmers are faced with these new problems related to trade and the effects that it is having in the marketplace.

I encourage members of the House to look seriously at this recommendation in my resolution and to consider that this is indeed a resolution that is encouraging the government to take action in the Ontario budget.

I also want to indicate to members of the House that the Ontario Federation of Agriculture, in its recommendations to the provincial Treasurer as part of the pre-budget consultation process, recommended both of these actions: an OFFIRR-like program to lower interest rates for farmers and protection for farmers facing foreclosure similar to the Manitoba legislation. I would hope that the members will support my resolution. If there is any time left of the 15 minutes for my party, I would reserve use of that at the end to sum up.

Mr Villeneuve: I too am very pleased to rise and support my friend the member for Algoma on his private member’s bill. Last October, I brought a private member’s bill somewhat similar to this to the Legislature, asking the government to reconsider the lack of priority that it had been giving to the agricultural community. Well, lo and behold, our friends from the New Democratic Party supported my private member’s motion, but the Liberal government could not see fit to give agriculture the priority it deserves, or should have, particularly going through these very difficult economic times.

I still to this day do not understand it because you cannot talk out of both sides of your mouth continuously, and that is what is happening with this government.

During the time when the member for Huron was Minister of Agriculture and Food, that ministry projected 1988-89 expenditure estimates of $579 million; actual expenditures were $522 million. What are they this year? They are $490 million. Almost $100 million has been taken away from the province’s basic industry, that of agriculture, the one we take for granted. We take food and farmers for granted but do not let them fail, because then the public will rise up in arms. We have had a very marked increase in the Ontario Farm Debt Review Board applications in January 1990. What is happening?

Interest rates are climbing and they are telling us that they are going to continue high for two more years. What we have is a very bad combination: low commodity prices and high interest rates. So what have we got? We have got an increase in applicants to the farm debt review board.

They thought the price of their grains or whatever the commodities they are producing would increase and they also hoped that interest rates would level out. Well, it went in the wrong direction both ways: Interest rates have continued to climb and commodity prices have softened. So we now have farmers going to the farm debt review board to restructure their credit, their repayment schedules, and also to try to organize themselves to put in a crop this year. And it does not look all that bright out there this year.

I can assure members that the cutbacks that this government has seen fit to bring upon the agricultural community are nothing but very shameful. I have, and I will be presenting to the Legislature this afternoon, a petition signed by a number of very concerned farmers regarding the cutback in engineering services, for example, that has been recently announced.

I am going to read part of a letter that I have from a drainage superintendent in eastern Ontario, Peter Addison, who is very concerned as an employee of a municipality and as a farmer and a man who deals with agriculture on an ongoing basis. He writes:

I could continue. However, that is another cutback. The on-the-farm, hands-on, front-line people are being removed and, I guess, replaced by bureaucrats or not replaced at all. The entire budget for the ministry has been slashed by almost $100 million from what was anticipated two years ago to what is actually being spent this year. So I certainly fully endorse the motion of my friend the member for Algoma.

I hope that this government is now starting to realize the extent of the problem. I know the Ontario Federation of Agriculture and farmers in general are getting to the backbench members of the government and saying: “Hey, what’s happening to agriculture? Are you going to do away with our ministry entirely? Are you going to amalgamate it with another ministry? Where do we stand on the list of priorities?” The answer to those is, agriculture stands very low on the list of priorities for this government, and it is proven by the shortsightedness of the reduction in the agricultural budget.

In closing, again I congratulate my colleague the member for Algoma. I and my party will be fully supporting him. I am looking forward to participation in this debate by Liberal backbenchers to see if indeed the message is starting to come through to them that agriculture is very unhappy with what they are doing to this very special industry.

Mr Dietsch: I rise today to speak on behalf of the farmers of St Catharines-Brock concerning farm interest rate reduction. As a member from the Niagara Peninsula, I have a good understanding and a deep concern for the plight of today’s farmers. Since my election I have had, and continue to have, ongoing discussions with the Minister of Agriculture and Food. These discussions focus on the serious challenges that lie before farmers in my area as well as across this province.

Over the past years I have witnessed the mounting pressures facing the agricultural community through the results of unusual weather conditions -- the hail storms, the drought -- rising production costs, high interest rates, low crop prices and, because of free trade, the reduction of the traditional protection tariffs. It has been predicted by the Ministry of Agriculture and Food that there will be annual losses of $50 million to the fruit and vegetable industry alone due to the free trade agreement. The federal government seems to conveniently ignore the fact that with the signing of the agreement it chose to write off the agricultural industry.

When farmers bare their personal lives and their financial souls for severances for cash flow or when farmers face the refusal of banks to approve new credit, because the banks are looking at cash flow instead of equity as security, we know that if we want to keep families to continue to farm, it must be economically feasible to do so.

Since 1987 I have tirelessly promoted Ontario foods in this very Legislature. I have appeared before the standing committee on the Legislative Assembly to promote usage of food products in this government and this province. I have introduced resolutions in this House which later became a reality, with the promotion of credit cards so that consumers can purchase Ontario fine wines through credit cards and at winery stores on Sunday. I have long advocated strong marketing policies within the public. We have also had wine tastings and meetings with our rural caucus.

Marketing and irrigation, which we are working on, help, but they are not enough. Financial assistance in some form of interest rate reduction is a necessity. In the last four years, the average grower has had to contend with the negative return on gross sales due to the many factors which I have previously outlined while the rest of our region has economic growth. We must not allow our farmers to feed us while they lose their very land or go hungry. If we preserve the farmer, then we will preserve the farm land.

Let me assure members that in the Niagara area my colleagues and I have actively pursued our discussions with the Minister of Agriculture and Food. He has heard from us and placed ministry personnel on the federal-provincial task force. He is reviewing farm programs to put money in the farmers’ pockets. But we must continue to work together to assess the challenging financial needs of Ontario’s agricultural industry. I am confident that our collective efforts will allow us to arrive at an effective solution, one which will combine financial needs and innovative marketing strategies for the good things that grow in Ontario.

Mr Kormos: I am aghast at being able to follow the member. Some members make bigger impressions on me than others, and those ridings I remember. On the member for St Catharines-Brock and his pitch for the member himself, it would seem that what we saw here was the scripting of an election pamphlet and not a response to the issue that is before the Legislature this morning by virtue of the motion by the Agriculture and Food critic for the New Democratic Party, the member for Algoma.

What is similarly incredible is that the member for St Catharines-Brock would be so ready to dump blame -- and blame is attributable to the federal Tories, no two ways about it -- on the federal Tories with apparently the sole purpose being to deflect attention from the inadequate approach and the inadequacies and the shortcomings of the Liberal government in Ontario with respect to farmers.

The one thing that the member for St Catharines-Brock said that indeed was the height of accuracy is how important farming is to the Niagara region. Just as he, who represents people in the northern part of the region, including many farmers, can say that about the northern part of the region, I can tell members that it can be said equally accurately about the southern part of the region, about the area of Welland-Thorold and on into Wainfleet, Wellandport and Fenwick, large areas where farming is of significance, not just currently in terms of food production, but historically.

I say that knowing that, for instance, farmers like Art Gill, down in the east end of Welland, have been farming land for many years. He himself has been farming the land that his father farmed decades earlier, land that his children hopefully -- and he certainly hopes this -- will farm when it comes their time.

At the same time, we have grape growers in the Niagara region who have been deserted by this Liberal government, grape growers who sought relief from the grape acreage reduction program, grape growers who find themselves in dire straits as a result of the state of siege that they, along with other farmers, find themselves in from interest rates, as has been cited, from the type of free trade agreement that the Liberals here at Queen’s Park insisted they were going to fight until the free trade agreement was enacted. As was said then and as can be repeated now, you could hear the sound of the towel hitting the floor as the Liberals gave up that fight.

One hears the same thing because one hears the same shallow, hollow, effete promise from the Liberals that they are going to fight the GST. Once again, if that promise has the same validity as the promise to fight free trade, one can expect to hear the sound of the towel hitting the floor come January 1991. One wonders about the real agenda, because we look at a Liberal government here that stands to make big bucks off the federal Tories’ GST. In fact, it has been demonstrated on more than one occasion to be, as often as not, in a clandestine sort of way supportive of that same GST program that the federal Tories want to impose on people in Canada and, indeed, in Ontario.

If we can talk for just a moment, please, about the grape growers down in Niagara and about the grape acreage reduction program, it is one where in excess of some 20 grape farmers made application in good faith for subsidization, for funding, for protection under that program. Members should know that the funding was there, and that is to say that their interests were budgeted into the moneys allocated to that program.

Their acreage was counted as among that acreage which was to be compensated for as a result of what the federal government and provincial Liberals have done to them by virtue of free trade, among other things. Yet these same 20-plus farmers are being arbitrarily denied compensation under that same grape acreage reduction program.

I tell the members it is not that the funding is not there because, as has already been said, their acreage was counted.

And it is not that there was anything devious taking place, because nobody is arguing the fact that these 20-plus grape growers are being denied compensation under the grape acreage reduction program. Nobody is daring to suggest that they are anything but legitimate farmers, legitimate grape growers who are faced with an incredible economic burden as a result of free trade and the destruction, by both the federal government and the provincial Liberals, of those prime grape lands in the Niagara region and the Niagara Peninsula.

The provincial government has got the proverbial short arms and deep pockets when it comes to these farmers. The provincial government talks big but fails to deliver once again.

If the member for St Catharines-Brock spends a whole lot of time talking to the Minister of Agriculture and Food, maybe he would like to remind the minister of the obligation that the provincial Liberals, the provincial government here at Queen’s Park, has to those grape growers in Niagara who are being denied compensation under the grape acreage reduction program.

Basically, the minister tells those people: “Sue us. Take us to court.” Those same grape growers have agreed to participate, if necessity requires it, in an alternative dispute resolution process. The federal government, which appears far more willing in this instance to live up to its obligations under that program than these provincial Liberals ever would be, is agreeable to participating in that same alternative dispute mechanism. What do the provincial Liberals tell the same grape growers, who are suffering enough as it is? “Sue us. Take us to court.

We’ll see you in court.” Again, these same grape growers know that their chances against the leverage, the power and the finances that the government can muster up, their chances in court, are modest indeed.

We have got Liberals here at Queen’s Park saying one thing but doing another. Mind you, the Minister of Agriculture and Food, I suspect with his own agenda, suggests using the Ombudsman. He knows or certainly ought to know, being a minister as he purports to be, that the Ombudsman would not have jurisdiction over a program that entails, among other things, the federal government. The federal government has been so kind as to point that out to the provincial Minister of Agriculture and Food. Hopefully, he understands their particular explanation.

I am proud that the agriculture critic for the New Democratic Party, the member for Algoma, has brought this resolution forward. I know that farmers, not just grape farmers but farmers in the Welland-Thorold area, those farms having been in the possession of families and farmed by families for generation after generation, feel the state of siege that I have indicated farmers are undoubtedly under in this province. It is an industry wherein those same farmers are dependent upon debt financing, and now they face ongoing high interest rates, possibly for the next two years, if not longer.

I look forward to being able to support this resolution on behalf of the farmers of Welland-Thorold. I look forward to seeing the other members of this Legislature show the same empathy and sensitivity towards the needs of farmers as the member for Algoma has in having moved this particular resolution.

Mr McLean: I am extremely pleased to have this opportunity to say a few words to this resolution, because I can identify with the plight of the family farmers in Ontario. I can identify with the current agricultural situation because I have been a long-time dairy farmer in Oro township and many friends of mine have been struggling to maintain family farms in this province.

This resolution is extremely important and it bears repeating once again:

‘That, in the opinion of this House, recognizing that difficult financial and trade pressures threaten the viability of Ontario agriculture in 1990 and recognizing that the provincial government must make a significant financial commitment to the preservation, expansion and prosperity of family farming in Ontario in the forthcoming spring budget and recognizing that farmers’ economic success in the 1990s will largely depend upon their ability to access and manage required capital resources and recognizing that Ontario farmers experiencing financial hardship would benefit from provincial government financial guarantees designed to encourage lending institutions to engage in mediation rather than foreclosures the Ontario government should reintroduce, this year, a program of interest rate assistance (similar to the OFFIRR program) with sufficient funding and of adequate duration to bring about meaningful farm interest rate reduction in this province and, further, that the Ontario government should enact legislation similar to Manitoba’s Family Farm Protection Act to assist farmers facing foreclosures by enabling them to renegotiate manageable credit terms.”

It is a very straightforward resolution.

The story of agriculture in Ontario is the story of growth and change. It is the story of coming together of peoples of diverse backgrounds, beliefs and customs, and the effects the struggle to build and maintain family farms had on them and on the land where they chose to anchor their dream of a better life. But the story of agriculture in Ontario has a sad chapter, and that

chapter details the decline of the family farm in Ontario over the past five years because of this government’s failure to provide a higher budgetary program priority for agriculture, its failure to consult with farm organizations prior to instituting major program cutbacks, its failure to provide leadership in the promotion of alternative crop uses and its decision to cancel interest rate relief at a time when interest rates have risen and also its reneging on its intention to protect agricultural land and its failure to provide a replacement for the OFFIRR program. That is a sad

chapter in the story of the family farm.

Members of this government fail to comprehend that about 30 per cent of our farmers live in financially strained circumstances. They do not understand that poverty is just as much a rural problem as it is an urban one. Our farmers may not be unemployed but, no matter how hard or long they work, they just cannot make ends meet. They fall deeper in debt and lose hope. Our cheap food policy and this government’s lack of leadership are neither kind nor just to these people.

In a nutshell, family farmers are part of an economic system that does not treat them fairly. They earn less than the minimum wage, even though they produce something we cannot live without. They produce the food we put on our tables. Yet our farmers would make a decent living if only we paid them fair prices. They would make a decent living if this government would introduce a program of interest rate assistance and legislation to assist those who face foreclosure. Others in the food chain can prosper but not our farmers, and that is an injustice.

We here in Ontario are particularly fortunate to have some of the best agricultural land in the world. Our harvest is bountiful, but most of the time this government tries to take this abundance for granted. It becomes the responsibility of all of us in society and especially this government to collaborate with our farming community to ensure productivity and fair distribution. This implies that we all do our part to ensure that the inheritors of the good earth can stay on it, can work it profitably and can preserve it for future generations of farmers.

Any modern province like Ontario that fails to protect and promote its farm community is heading for some very serious trouble. A province that cannot be reasonably self-sufficient and secure in its production of food risks losing a precious measure of security, independence and prosperity.

I found it rather troubling when I tuned in on the national television station recently and watched the day-long Farm Aid 4. This concert was from the United States and this was the fourth time that major stars in the music industry answered Willie Nelson’s call for them to perform on an internationally broadcast program to raise money for beleaguered farmers in the United States. It was noted that approximately 180 farm families fail each and every day of the year in the United States. That is a very sorry state of affairs.

I would certainly be dismayed to see this happen in Canada, and especially in Ontario. Our family farms are extremely important to all of the people in this province. Family farms produce the food we eat, family farms instil traditional values in our youth and I know for a fact that family farmers are more concerned about the protection and preservation of the environment than any corporate farmers would be. Family farms are a valued and integral part of our heritage, our economy and our values in this province.

I would like to spend a few moments providing an example of how this government tends to ignore the agricultural sector in Ontario. In fact, some of my fellow dairy farmers say that their dealings with this government to get low-fat dairy products on the market are so slow that at times it is like pulling a cow through the eye of a needle. In the United States, consumers can buy a growing range of low-fat and low-cholesterol dairy products, but this government is slowing the move to get these same products to grocery shelves in Ontario.

Many processors I have talked with complain about Ontario laws that ban butter-margarine blends. This province also prohibits margarines from being the same colour as butter, which I agree with, and while margarine can be mixed with dairy byproducts, including buttermilk, whey and skim milk powder, there is still some question whether processors can promote the fact that their margarine is made up partly of dairy products.

In conclusion, I would like to state quite clearly that the preservation of the family farm in Ontario is not and should not be a partisan matter. It should not be an issue that pits one political party against another. It is of importance to every man, woman and child in this province, no matter what political party he or she supports because, as I said earlier, it becomes the responsibility of all of us in society to collaborate with our farm families and the farming community to ensure productivity and fair distribution.

This implies that we all do our part to ensure that the inheritors of the good earth can stay on it, can work it profitably and can preserve it for future generations of farmers in Ontario.

All of us here today have an obligation to support this resolution, because if we fail to protect and promote our farm community, we will lose a precious measure of security.

Mr Riddell: As a farmer and the minister of the day responsible for the introduction of the Ontario family farm interest rate reduction program, I rise in support of this resolution asking that a program similar to OFFIRR be reintroduced. In a non-political way, I want to provide some observations about the farm economic situation in Ontario today and the reasons for my support.

Farmers lost a considerable amount of equity during the last decade as the cost-price squeeze intensified. In the early 1980s, with interest costs soaring above 20 per cent, many farmers were forced to the wall trying to service carrying costs of mortgages and operating credit. In spite of the Ontario farm adjustment assistance program and the Ontario family farm interest rate reduction program, which were designed to give farmers a break on interest rates, some eventually gave up farming in despair, while others sought eventual salvation through the Ontario Farm Debt Review Board experience.

Many feel that banking institutions were the main benefactors in these programs, and in many respects they were. Unfortunately, many good young farmers simply had too much debt and not enough return from the agricultural marketplace to cope. Even farm families with one or more off-farm jobs have and are continuing to have a major struggle meeting financial commitments.

As we enter the 1990s, aside from the standard risks and uncertainties associated with farming, there is a gut feeling by some that we may be on the verge of another period of low commodity prices and escalating interest rates. At a recent Royal Bank seminar in southwestern Ontario, senior bank staff were less than optimistic about the farm income picture in the short term as well as in the long term. Forecasters predict that input costs will continue to rise while commodity prices, especially for corn and soybeans, remain below the cost of production.

As well as feeling frustrated, helpless and depressed by poverty-level returns from agriculture, the new wave of consumer demands about food safety and environmental concerns have added new dimensions to the anxiety levels of farmers.

Although there is a desire to reduce debt levels, many are faced with the problem of actually having to borrow to live. At the same time, bankers are tough. Cash-flow financing reigns supreme, while equity lending is a thing of the past. Many find that it is next to impossible to cash-flow a small profit, let alone a decent return to labour, risk and management.

A significant number of Ontario Farm-Start cash crop operators actually lost money in 1989. Therefore, because they cannot make the required $5,500 income from farming as required by the Ontario Farm-Start program administration, they will not be eligible for their first-year grant of $11,000 for their 1989 efforts. Now their financial problems will be compounded because bankers are unlikely to extend a line of operating credit.

Many will be forced to seek high-cost supplier credit or rent out their land to established farmers who have little or no debt because they started farming years ago when cost structures were low. More and more farmers continue to seek off-farm employment in order to support their farming endeavours.

Because of external, non-farm economic forces, land market values are considerably higher than agricultural productive values. This makes it very difficult for those wanting to begin or expand farming operations. On the other hand, high land values have bailed out some farmers in financial distress and have been welcomed by older farmers wanting to retire and relocate in an urban area.

The farm debt review board administration reports an increase in activity, and local board panel members sense that with the tough times on the farm, new cases will continue to come up for consideration. Certainly the anxiety level in the farm community is very real. The free trade deal is clearly not what it was cracked up to be, and the promises about continued protection for milk and feather quotas appear to be in jeopardy. In fact, some futurists predict that marketing boards, as we now know them, will soon be dismantled altogether.

Even those who claim to be eternal optimists, those who in springtime, as the adrenaline surges, get pumped up for another season’s promise, are all clearly worried about continuing tough times. The better days ahead, longed for by so many farmers, may be a long way off.

Clearly, a significant number of good farmers are in need of economic assistance and protection right now, before it is too late, and it is for the reasons outlined that I support this resolution, fully cognizant that it is yet another Band-Aid solution to a much longer term problem.

What we need, in addition to improved crop insurance and meaningful long-term stabilization programs, is a federal-provincial lending institution which will lend money to farmers at reasonable rates of interest, subsidized by government, for it is the cost of borrowing short- and long-term credit and servicing debt that is causing much of the despair which I referred to in my opening remarks.

Mr Reycraft: I want to compliment the member for Algoma for the resolution he has brought before the Legislature this morning. I also want to let him know at the outset that I will be supporting it. The resolution is a very timely one, because I am sure that even as this debate is going on in the Legislature, there are farmers in Ontario who are out there negotiating with their banks for operating loans for 1990.

Farmers are finding that this year those negotiations to obtain the operating loans are particularly difficult. There are really two separate issues related to those operating loans. One is the simple availability of credit and the other is its cost. With respect to its availability, farmers are finding that because of low commodity prices, because of the impact of a drought in 1988, and in parts of this province in 1987 as well, and because of rising input costs, it is becoming more and more difficult for them to obtain the credit they need to get this year’s crop into the ground.

They are also finding that, for a number of reasons, the cost of credit is presenting difficulties for them. The member for Algoma talked about the prime rate of chartered banks now being 14.25 per cent. That is true. However, I suspect that perhaps by the end of this day 14.25 per cent will look attractive as a prime rate for our chartered banks, because yesterday the Bank of Canada announced that it was increasing its rate to 13.61 per cent, and some have predicted that perhaps even today the chartered banks may be increasing their rates by as much as or more than one half per cent. That means that by the end of the day we may be facing a prime rate of 14.75 per cent.

For that reason, this resolution is timely. It is also timely because this is April and we know that the Treasurer is now considering provisions of the 1990 budget. It is most appropriate that arguments like this one now be made to him.

I am pleased that the member for Algoma has chosen to endorse the recommendation of the all-party select committee, which did recommend as he indicated earlier. Recommendation 33 provided that the government should consider a program similar to the Ontario farm family interest rate reduction program that would demonstrate the government’s commitment to help farmers in times of high-interest-rate crisis. This was the first time the Ontario Federation of Agriculture appeared before the finance committee as part of its pre-budget consultation and I am very pleased that the committee, of which I am a member, chose to accede to that recommendation.

I know other members wish to participate in this debate. Let me again compliment the member for Algoma for his resolution and indicate I will take pleasure in supporting it.

Mr McGuigan: I am pleased to join my colleagues in supporting at least the first half of the resolution of the member for Algoma. I cannot, however, support the second half, which says that Ontario should enact legislation similar to the Manitoba Family Farm Protection Act.

First, we should look at the 1934 Farmers’ Creditors Arrangement Act and its results. The act gave the courts power to facilitate compromises between bankrupt farmers and creditors in the prairie provinces on debts incurred before 1 May 1935. The legislation resulted in debts on land being forgiven on an average of 35 per cent for land debts and 45 per cent for machinery purchase debts. While it gave some relief to farmers, it had two long-term, ill after-effects.

It set farm family against farm family, because the creditors in those days were often farmers, and it effectively removed the banks from the farm lending field until the early 1950s. From 1935 until about 1952, they were removed from the field.

In 1982, Ralph Ferguson, MP for Lambton-Middlesex, introduced a private members’ bill to resurrect the Depression-era act. The bill died on the order paper, but many interest groups made representation to the committee about the negative impact of the bill on the supply in terms of agriculture credit. This morning we had the corn producers talking about not only the cost of credit but the availability. The federal government has since introduced farm debt relief review boards without the capacity of imposing court settlements to assist in arrangements between farmers and their creditors.

The Ontario Farm Debt Review Board is very effective in helping financially stressed farmers deal with their lenders in a constructive manner. Ontario supports the efforts of all parties involved in the farm debt review process. Many farm families have used the counselling services provided by OMAF’s farm family adviser program to prepare for their board hearings. The federal government has just announced that it intends to increase the flexibility of the farm debt review process.

Rather than duplicate the federal Farm Debt Review Act at the provincial level, this process should be supported and developed within the existing framework. The Manitoba act is very similar to the federal Farm Debt Review Act.

I cannot split my vote, but I will support the resolution at this stage with the caveat that I encourage the member to give regard to my comments on the second part of his proposal. At this first reading I will allow my support for a return of an OFFIRR-type program to override my concerns about a Manitoba-type act.

The Deputy Speaker: There is some time left in the official opposition’s time.

Mr Wildman: Mr Speaker, I would like unanimous consent to give two minutes to the member for Wellington.

The Deputy Speaker: Agreed?

Agreed to.

Mr J. M. Johnson: I thank the member for Algoma. I would like to first of all compliment him and congratulate him on his amendment. It is an excellent proposal and I hope the members will support it. I would like to compliment the former Minister of Agriculture and Food on his remarks this morning. I think they are very appropriate.

In the two minutes that I have, I would just like to make one point, and possibly it is to the members who represent city ridings. A large number of people in Ontario feel that we should be preserving our farm land, that there is an erosion of the cities on to the farm land and that it is a major problem. It has been going on for many years and it will continue.

One factor that the members should consider is the point that if we preserve our farmers, they will preserve the farm land. When farmers are forced into the position where they cannot make a living, as has been pointed out many times this morning, then it is impossible for them to stay on their land.

We have a case of a young man up in my riding who tried his best to stay on his land. He was forced off the land. He obtained a job in real estate, and in the last two years he made over $100,000 a year selling real estate. The argument is that he should have left many years ago, but he loves farming; he wants to go back into farming when he can. It demonstrates that the people who have the ability to make livings in many other ways want to work on the farm, and we should encourage them. To encourage them is to provide whatever assistance we can, and the resolution presented this morning by the member for Algoma is a step in that direction.

I encourage all members to support, not part of the resolution, but the whole resolution. Let’s all work together to do what we can to preserve our farmers, and they will preserve the farm land.

The Deputy Speaker: The member for Algoma will complete the time left for his party and then use up his two minutes at the end.

Mr Wildman: I want to thank all members who have participated in the debate, who have indicated their support for the resolution and who have indicated that they believe it to be a timely one.

With regard to my friend the member for Essex-Kent, I appreciate his position and I recognize that he cannot split his vote. I appreciate his view that our needing an OFFIR-type program overrides his concern about the legislative route as well as part of the resolution.

I just want to point out, though, that the Family Farm Protection Act enacted in Manitoba is not the same as the legislation the member for Essex-Kent was referring to. It does indeed require application to a court and it sets up an advisory board to assist in developing mediation with the lending institutions.

The objects of the act are to afford protection to farmers against unwarranted loss of their farming operations during periods of difficult economic circumstances, to preserve the agricultural land base of Manitoba and to ensure that farm land is farmed and managed during periods of difficult economic circumstances, to preserve management skills of farmers during periods of difficult economic circumstances, to preserve the human resources of the agriculture community of Manitoba and to preserve the existing lifestyle of farm communities in Manitoba and the tradition of locally owned and managed family farms.

I think those objects would certainly be supportable by all members of this House for Ontario and I am not wedded to a particular legislative approach. If the government could come up with improvements to the approach taken in Manitoba for that part of the resolution, I am quite amenable to that.

I also want to thank my friend the member for Middlesex. His observation that it is not only hard to pay for credit is hard to obtain credit for farmers today is certainly correct. If his prediction that we may see a half percentage point increase in the prime interest rate today is correct, that will mean an additional $4.5 million in the cost of servicing short-term farm debt in Ontario. There is no question that we need action in this budget.

I particularly want to thank my friend the member for Huron. His experience in the agriculture community and in agricultural policy is well known. I appreciated his sincere approach in his speech and I agree with him completely when he brands this resolution as really a Band-Aid approach. I agree; it is that. I think we are in a crisis situation and we need to take action, but there is no question that this is not the long-term answer for farm finance in Ontario. I agree with him that we need a federal-provincial lending institution that is dedicated to ensuring that family farming can operate at a profit and prosper, not just in Ontario but throughout Canada.

I regret the fact that I must agree with my friend the member for Simcoe East when he says the history of Canada and the history of Ontario have really been a history of the decline of family farming. When he points out that 30 per cent of the farmers in Ontario are in difficult financial straits, that indeed is evidence of a crisis.

I remember that a year or two ago I sat down with a young farmer in my constituency because he was going out of business and he wanted to show me why he was going out of business. We went over his books. He had just recently purchased the farm and he had all the financial problems that all beginning farmers have. He had assistance from various farm programs, but the bottom line, as we went through his previous year’s books, was $10,000. That is what he had, $10,000, as a return on his investment, his management and not only his labour but the labour of his wife and other members of the family. He just could not support his family on $10,000.

That is the kind of situation we are facing for young farmers, but the crisis is not just for young farmers today. With the problems we are facing with regard to the so-called free trade agreement and the GATT negotiations, and the pressures they are putting on farmers in Ontario and the future of marketing boards in this province, many farmers, not just young farmers, are going to face this problem. I think we must take action in the short term, in this year’s budget, as a way of tiding those farmers over until we can get a properly developed and negotiated federal and provincial approach in this country to assist agriculture across Canada and throughout Ontario.

I appreciate the support that has been voiced by members for this resolution. I hope that in passing this resolution today we will be giving a message to the Treasurer, in his preparations for the spring budget, that we will see a family farm interest rate reduction program included in the budget, that it will have sufficient funding to make a difference and that it will be of the duration required to last throughout the period of high interest rates. Again, I thank members very much for their support.

CHILDREN’S MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES

Mr Brandt moved resolution 47:

That, in the opinion of this House, recognizing the increased incidence of behavioural problems and violence in schools, and recognizing that children in Ontario currently do not have a right to mental health treatment, and recognizing that there are 10,000 children presently waiting for treatment in children’s mental health centres, and recognizing that there is a lack of legislation in Ontario which specifically governs mental health services for children, the present government should make the provision of children’s mental health services a government priority and take immediate action to ensure that all children in Ontario are provided the mental health services which they require and deserve.

Mr Brandt: I am not overly pleased to have to bring this motion to the House, because I want to identify what I consider to be an extremely critical problem that I believe very sincerely requires the attention of government.

I do not think there are many members of this House who would disagree with the position I put forward that there are problems in connection with the services that are presently being provided in the field of mental health for children. We may disagree, as we sometimes are wont to do in this Legislative Assembly, on the solutions, but I believe there is reasonable agreement to the extent that we have a difficulty that has to be identified very clearly, one that has to be addressed by the government of Ontario.

The resolution I have put before this House is a fairly general and broad resolution. It has specific implications that I would like to identify in the context of my remarks this morning. But generally, in terms of this particular resolution, what it does is identify the fact that there are children on a waiting list, that there are serious problems relating to the mental health conditions of those children and that government does in fact have a responsibility to provide some services at least to assist in

part in overcoming those problems.

The numbers are really quite frightening. Some 10,000 children are presently on waiting lists that range from a time frame of six months to as long as two years. When we are talking about situations that involve child abuse in many instances, the question of incestuous relationships within a family, sexual abuse on the part of some of the situations relating to these children, I do not think there is anyone in this assembly who could justify that these kinds of critical problems can be allowed to fester for a six-month or one-year period or, heaven forbid, a two-year period.

Can you imagine a member of this House, Mr Speaker, meeting a two-, three- or four-year-old child on the street and having that child come up to a member of the Legislative Assembly with a frightened, hurt and frustrated look on his face, saying: “Help me. I’m being abused at home. My father is an alcoholic and he abuses me physically on a regular basis”? You look at the pleading look in this child’s eyes and the response of a member of this Legislative Assembly is, “We are going to help you, but come back in six months, come back in a year or come back in two years.” These are the kinds of problems, I suggest, that do not have any kind of waiting period that we can allow to occur.

Let me give a specific example. I have read some of the histories of these cases into the record, but these are examples of situations that exist today. A four-year-old girl was the victim of incest and the alleged perpetrator is the father. She has undergone three years of abuse. The response that we have given this child to date is, “You’re on a waiting list.” This child has spent 75 per cent of her life in a situation that can be described as nothing less than a horror. Yet our only means of extending a hand of support is to say, “Well, maybe we’ll be able to help you in six months or a year or two years.” That is just not good enough.

The minister’s response, when I have addressed this question in the House, is, “Well, we’re going to wait for the Maloney report.” I want to suggest to the minister that the Maloney report was not set up in that study specifically to zero in on the question of children’s mental health services. So although that may be a satisfying response to the minister, it is not a satisfying response to me.

Second, the minister has indicated, “Well, if we got more money from the federal government under the CAP, the Canada assistance plan, we would be able to provide the help that is necessary.” Certainly, if another level of government provided some kind of bailout funding, then maybe the solution would be somewhat easier. But I have to point out, if I might, without being provocative on this particular question, that the CAP was intended for social and welfare services and not for children’s mental health services. It does not come under that particular program.

It can be used, I suppose, as a convenient excuse, but the reality is again that this is not providing the assistance that is necessary.

I would suggest that children’s mental health is not a welfare or social service program, but in fact a health problem. The health of these children is being affected by the living environment they are forced into. A three-, four- or five-year-old child does not have any choice other than to live in a family situation irrespective of how unacceptable that family situation might be. When they reach out with a cry for help from this Legislature, I believe we have a responsibility to respond and to respond as quickly as we can.

I circulated my resolution to a number of agencies within a matter of the last few days. I have not received one negative response yet. Many of them are from ridings that are represented by the New Democratic Party and many of them are Liberal ridings and ridings represented by my own party. Let me read from only one of those letters of support. The director of education for the Kent board of education, in a letter that was dated to me yesterday, said:

“The board supported in principle the resolution as proposed by you, but asked that it go one step further and question the wisdom of the provision of mental health services for children under the umbrella of the Ministry of Community and Social Services instead of the Ministry of Health. Trustees had a great deal of difficulty understanding why children’s mental health services” -- they recognize it as a medical problem -- “is not under the umbrella of the Ministry of Health, which is what they would like to see happen.”

The reality is that it should be under the Ministry of Health, and I fully support any efforts on the part of the current minister to make that shift into the appropriate ministry. I see this as a health problem that should come under the auspices of the Ministry of Health, and not as a social service problem of some kind.

In the short time that is left available to me, I want to indicate that there are really three fundamental reasons why the members of this House should support the resolution I am proposing to them today. I would like to suggest to members that the most valuable resource we have in this province and in this country is not our minerals; with all respect to the earlier resolution that was brought before this House, not our farm land; not our energy resources; not our industries; but our children.

They are the hope of the future for this province and this country. and money that we spend now in order to correct some of the problems that are going to become even more serious in the future in my view is money well spent.

That gets into my second problem. I believe that this -- as a Conservative I say this to members -- is really an investment in the future of our children. If we can stop some of these abuses and these living environmental problems that are unacceptable from happening, if we can offer some form of assistance to these children now, it is my view that we can save tremendous sums of government money in the future by making them productive citizens of tomorrow.

Finally, let me say in the time remaining to me that the Premier indicated he wept at the thought of what had happened at St Joseph’s Training School for Boys in the small community of Alfred. That situation, which is supposed to have occurred some 30 years ago and which we talked about in this House yesterday, is one that disturbs, I know, every member of this Legislature.

But it is not enough to weep about a situation that none of us were able to control 30 years ago when we were not here. I do believe there is a responsibility on our shoulders today to do something about today’s children. We cannot simply stand idly by and watch these children constantly being exposed to situations that -- I do not exaggerate this point -- are going to warp their minds and turn them into very confused and very troubled citizens of the future. We cannot stand by and watch that happen when there are things that government can do to correct the problem.

I appeal to the members to support this resolution so that we can get on the road to helping our children of today.

Mrs O’Neill: I am pleased to rise this morning to address the resolution put by the leader of the third party on the important issue of mental health services for children.

Before I begin my more formal remarks, I would like to take it upon myself to try to clear up a confusion that I think the honourable member for Sarnia has placed in this House this morning. He is confusing child protection, which is the responsibility of the children’s aid society and this society has the power to apprehend a child in risk, with a child requiring counselling outside the situation of risk. The children’s aid society in this province has the resources to provide counselling to children and has the ability to apprehend them. There are no waiting lists for this service; this is the law.

The government of Ontario and the Ministry of Community and Social Services remain strongly committed to the provision of an appropriate response to children who are in need of mental health services. It is critical that we, as legislators, recognize the serious problems that these children and their families are facing daily.

There is a growing recognition that to effectively serve children with special needs, we will be required to approach the challenge with the co-operation and collaboration of services that are the responsibility of several ministries. The newly formed interministerial committee on services to children and youth consists of senior officials from the ministries of Community and Social Services, Health, Education, Tourism and Recreation, and Correctional Services.

This committee has a strong mandate to ensure the establishment of a co-ordinated and integrated in-service mechanism, and to ensure effective practical solutions at the local level or field level where the individual mandates of the different ministries may now be impeding the most efficient delivery of services to the children of Ontario.

The first meeting of this new committee with this exciting and challenging mandate was held on 4 January 1990. I believe that with this gathering of key providers we now have a regular meeting ground for the essential discussion that will lead to full review and reform.

There are already many examples of local collaboration among children’s mental health service providers. The northern initiatives for children with special needs project is restructuring services for children in northern Ontario. This project will ensure that health and social service providers, as well as educators in the north, plan and work together regularly.

In the Ottawa-Carleton region, service providers from several organizations have also been meeting to discuss ways of more effectively delivering available services in that region.

In the important area of policy, the lead Ministry of Community and Social Services, children’s services division, is addressing mental health issues for children. The Advisory Committee on Children’s Services has been asked to identify the requirements of an adequate children’s service system in this decade and beyond.

The Ontario Association of Children’s Mental Health Centres and other service providers are participating in this review. This association represents 90 of the children’s mental health centres in Ontario and receives an annual grant from the Ministry of Community and Social Services to assist in its administrative costs.

Needless to say, we are not yet satisfied that children’s mental health care is provided as quickly as we would like it in every instance. I think it is quite clear, however, that over the past few years the Ontario government has made a significant effort to improve the whole children’s service sector.

This commitment was further manifest in last week’s announcements by the Minister of Community and Social Services and the Ministry of Health that transfer payment agencies under their jurisdiction will be receiving a 5.5 per cent increase in their respective budgets. This represents an increase in dollar terms of $18.6 million above inflation.

Changes in the designation of the majority of children’s mental health service centres have permitted federal cost-sharing of services under the Canada assistance plan, but as a result of the most recent federal budget a cap has been placed on this funding source, resulting in a projected shortfall to the Ministry of Community and Social Services of $160 million. Of this total, $34.5 million will be lost to Ontario’s community mental health resource network for children with special needs. This is serious. Waiting lists will certainly not be made shorter through any help from these federal government cutbacks.

We all know that waiting lists are significant, and they are a great concern to the Ministry of Community and Social Services and to this government.

If I may say a word about these waiting lists, mental health services for Ontario’s children are decentralized and are delivered by many agencies. It is therefore sometimes very difficult to determine the number of children waiting for services and then to determine whether the services that they await will be appropriate to their needs. The Ontario Association of Children’s Mental Health Centres and other service providers are working carefully to locally develop a means of identifying children in urgent need and, once identified, to ensure that the services they receive are indeed the best for their particular needs.

Children’s mental health services must constantly be prioritized and allocated to children whose need is the greatest. This is a challenge we face in every area of health care, but for children with special needs the call is very clear. The Ministry of Community and Social Services is co-operating and using the most up-to-date technologies to develop accurate data concerning those children on waiting lists and continues to work with children’s mental health professionals to assess developments in treatment and ways to ensure the effective use of professional services.

There are currently 100 mental health centres devoted to children’s needs in Ontario, providing services to a case load of approximately 30,000 children at a cost of $142 million in the fiscal year 1988-89. These children’s mental health centres provide a wide range of services: residential and day treatment, psychotherapy and counselling, early intervention and outreach and prevention activities.

Three of these agencies are in my home city of Ottawa -- the Centre for Educative Growth is in my riding of Ottawa-Rideau and the Child Study Centre and the Roberts Smart Centre are in Ottawa-Carleton -- and we in the Ottawa-Carleton Liberal caucus have met as recently as December 1989 with these providers to hear their concerns.

In addition to the services these agencies provide, Ontario’s public hospitals offer several different kinds of services to children with special needs; 20 public hospitals receive health funds specifically designated for children’s outpatient service. The Ministry of Health also funds psychiatric inpatient units for children and adolescents in hospitals in three major centres:

Victoria Hospital in London, the Hospital for Sick Children and Sunnybrook Medical Centre in Toronto and the Children’s Hospital of Eastern Ontario in Ottawa. Provincial psychiatric hospitals in London, Whitby and St Thomas also operate adolescent programs whose salary component is funded through a purchase-of-service agreement with the Ministry of Community and Social Services.

In addition to these specialized programs, general and psychiatric hospitals often provide services to children with mental health problems through emergency departments and family service programs.

The Minister of Community and Social Services and his staff continue to be actively involved in discussions with representatives from the Ontario Association of Children’s Mental Health Centres to find positive solutions to these issues and the issues that I have identified and that we are all aware of. I believe that all these ongoing initiatives indicate clearly the concern of and commitment by the government of Ontario and the Ministry of Community and Social Services to children needing mental health services in this province.

The continuing efforts to develop an effective and comprehensive and responsive service system continues. We in the government realize there are great needs. We realize that we have not accomplished the task, but we are certainly trying, willing and able to do so, with the co-operation of the providers in the field. That task we have begun actively and will continue to pursue on a daily basis.

Mr Allen: I gather we have 15 minutes to share among the members of this party, in which case I will be taking a little over half of the time and my colleague the member for Etobicoke-Lakeshore will be speaking to the rest.

I rise with great interest in this resolution, which I support wholeheartedly. I commend the member for Sarnia for bringing it forward. I have noted his recent questions in this House in this regard, which I was questioning the minister about over the last year or so myself. I note that he has introduced a refinement to his resolution almost implicitly in his remarks, which is that he does think the services that the children’s mental health centres provide should be transferred back to the Ministry of Health and away from the Ministry of Community and Social Services. I do not read that in the resolution, and I am not committed to that solution when I speak in defence of his resolution.

I want to say that there certainly is a great deal of evidence that there is not only a great impact of the violence of our times -- whether it is measured in family terms, in community terms, in television and media terms or international terms -- upon our children; the evidence is there in stories that one reads in papers like the Toronto Star and others, “Teen Violence a Growing Menace.” What was happening at the Lakeshore Collegiate Institute was “a drama of horrified classmates watching a young group enter the school with broken bottles and attacking students,” and so on through a number of incidents. The

article goes on to affirm that the majority of kids are really great and all-together students, but the symptoms are there.

I look at a recent report from the city of Windsor and the county of Essex on the whole question of children’s services. One of the concluding remarks is that there is a definite belief that mental health problems among children and young adults are increasing in Windsor and Essex county. So it is not just in the big city; it is in the medium-sized city and it is in the surrounding counties as well. This group in Windsor-Essex is extremely concerned about the facilities that are available for the treatment of those young people.

I myself have received over the months numerous letters pointing out the problems that we have in the delivery and the availability of service, the problems afflicting children’s mental health treatment centres around the province.

One, for example, is from a lawyer who specializes in work with those children, a man by the name of Stephen Biss writing in Toronto, relaying to me some of the correspondence that he has had with the predecessor of the Minister of Community and Social Service, the member for Kitchener-Wilmot, and arguing that new funding was absolutely critical for the children’s mental health centres and, in spite of the fact that in 1987 the member for Kitchener-Wilmot promised such funding, there was no evidence of it in the subsequent months after 28 April 1987. He writes:

“Two years have now passed, and I am not aware of any new children’s mental health placements in Peel for such severely troubled and acting-out adolescents. My child clients who fall within this category continue to be placed far outside Peel. Long waiting lists remain the rule. “Such clients who begin involvement with the courts under the Child and Family Services Act often quickly become young offenders with resulting damage to their lives, to their parents’ wellbeing, to victims of crime and to the community.”

The story goes on, not only from an advocate who is a lawyer but from a worker in the field, a Ken Westlake, who writes from another one of the children’s mental health centres, this time in Windsor.

I have correspondence from the Earlscourt Child and Family Centre in Toronto, more than one letter. They tell me of the problem that they are facing in resolving their priorities as they try to service a very large waiting list and at the same time reach out into the community, unfortunately having to put to one side projects that they would want to undertake and leaving the servicing of many children on their lists for months on end. One of those letters from the Earlscourt centre reads, in part, as follows:

“In a recent publication of the Canadian Council of Children and Youth, ‘Safer Tomorrow Begins Today,’ research is presented that draws correlations of parental conflict, poor parenting and troublesome behaviour in children with future criminal and delinquent activity. It would seem obvious to most reading this report that putting a priority on resources in treating these problems would be an excellent approach to preventing the negative outcomes resulting from no or minimal intervention. Currently, this could not be a priority of governments. Otherwise, why would only $3,400 be spent in Ontario on children’s mental health.. .versus $47,000 per convict per year in Canadian jails?”

Prior to the rising of this Legislature just before Christmas, I released a statement trying to cover the major elements of this issue as they had come to me over previous weeks and months.

I noted at that time the extreme waiting lists that young people and their families are facing as they try to seek help which is severely needed at children’s mental health centres. I noted, for example, that at the Beechgrove Children’s Centre in Kingston they had been lined up 430 deep in the past year and that in Windsor the number was 445, that across the province a demonstrated total of 6,000 are on confirmed waiting lists, and probably another 4,000. When the government member who just spoke questioned those waiting lists, she did not of course even take time to reflect on the numbers of children out there who desperately do need help who go beyond these actual waiting lists.

Stress and frustration in these centres is taking a heavy toll on staff. At the time I was speaking prior to Christmas, one of those centres was on strike and another one has since been on strike for nine weeks up at Geneva Park. The Minister of Community and Social Services, in answer to repeated questions, kept replying that more money had been spent recently, but when you talked with the mental health centres themselves, they asked the minister to provide evidence that that was indeed the case, because they saw no change -- and so on and so on.

The problems that they face in terms of staff turnover arise from the low levels of funding that the centres receive. The child and youth workers, for example, can earn 6 to 45 per cent more money elsewhere. Professional staff can get from 5 to 7 per cent more in social service agencies, 12 to 17 per cent more in Ministry of Health-funded bodies and 28 per cent more in school boards. So there is a massive problem of staff turnover in this as in so many other community social services.

While the Ontario Association of Children’s Mental Health Centres has been calling this issue to our attention -- for weeks and months now, it has been issuing the Children’s Mental Health Advocate on a regular basis, detailing the problems that afflict it and its clients -- it does not see the necessity for more studies. It is true the Maloney commission is out there, and Mr Maloney is a sensitive observer and he will undoubtedly provide an excellent report, but the minister already has the Heseltine report of three years back, which made a series of very specific recommendations, none of which appear to have been followed up.

There are several levels to this issue, and I would like to have time to go into them, but I do not. There is the treatment versus the care question. It is not at all clear that simply transferring these centres back to the Health ministry, where they were once, and leaving the Ministry of Community and Social Services is in itself a particularly helpful solution.

It seems to me that health and social services, the social setting of health problems, creates a single continuum and the decision that was made a few years ago under the Child and Family Services Act to combine them was a good one. But what got lost in the process was the guarantee of universal care and treatment for these young people in children’s mental health centres so that if you were ill for mental and emotional and behavioural reasons, you had at least as much of a guarantee that you would be treated immediately and promptly as you would if you were physically ill as a child.

We all know that a child who is physically damaged can be taken to a medical clinic or a hospital and receive immediate treatment. That is not the case with these equally severe or even more severe traumas that afflict young people who come out of violent situations. As a result, the problem that we face is a severe one and the leader of the third party is certainly correct that this needs to be a very high priority for this government to face when it looks at the whole problem of children’s services and the needs of our children in our society.

With that, I wish to depart the debate and leave the balance of this party’s remarks to the member for Etobicoke-Lakeshore.

Mrs Cunningham: It gives me a great deal of pleasure and somewhat of an honour to speak to the resolution of the leader of the Progressive Conservative Party.

I would like to start by saying that I hope this resolution in fact will get the support of the government members in this House, and I say this very directly and to the point: Children’s mental health services across the province of Ontario are right now in extreme difficulty. It may have to do with changes in legislation in the past, it may have to do with a lack of funding, it may not perhaps be the direct responsibility of the government, but it is certainly a direct responsibility and related to the problems in society today.

The kinds of children who were on waiting lists some five years ago were very different from the kinds of children who are there now. They are children who are being referred with very severe mental health problems.

They are children who in the past may have been ignored, or as we were trying to find a way to treat them and serve them through school systems and through hospitals and through medical doctors, we have come to the conclusion that children’s mental health institutions are best able to do that because they have the kind of staff, but the lineups are real, and all this resolution does is to ask the government to recognize that there really is a serious problem in Ontario today. I would hope that this is the kind of recognition we are going to get.

That is the intent of the member for Sarnia: Put it higher up on the list of priorities. I would think that would be a very high one with this government.

We do respect, in fact, the commission that is looking at health services across the province as they relate to the treatment of children, and that is Dr Cohn Maloney and his work. However, we should also know at the same time that the Ontario Association of Children’s Mental Health Centres, which is very much aware of the mandate of that commission, understands truly that it will not be dealing with the crises.

The crises are this very long waiting list, some would say over 10,000 children. Those children who are being dealt with first are children who are suicidal. We used to look at routine matters, routine cases, if members can believe it, waiting maybe three or four weeks just five years ago. Now we have those routine cases, if members can imagine their children being referred for mental health support being considered routine at all, being asked to wait some six or seven months. This is serious business.

In school boards across the province, there used to be an opportunity to create more

section 25 facilities, but with the introduction of Bill 82, our boards are very much concerned about creating more of those facilities, because they are not quite certain what their role is in the delivery of mental health services and what the role of the children’s mental health associations really is. There are some 85 agencies they can turn to, but they used to create these special schools and work with the agencies. But there is confusion as to who has what jurisdiction. Right now in Ontario there is a real need to get at that legislation and clarify the mandate.

Right now under the Education Act school boards in fact cannot buy those services. They should be buying the services, because the mental health people are the best able to deliver the kinds of services that are necessary, but they are confused as to who should do it.

This big issue in the province is not part of the mandate of the Maloney commission. All that the children’s mental health centres are asking for is that the government recognize that problem, that roadblock, create another separate commission to deal very quickly with legislative changes and mandates and to do it immediately. They could do this within months by establishing a commission by order in council. It is a very specific request that they are asking for.

At the same time, they should have an advisory committee that could advise the minister directly as to the real legislative concerns, program concerns and concerns around waiting lists.

I heard the government representative speak today of the amount of money that is going in, and I can tell the minister right now that as we take a look at responses from places such as the Beechgrove Children’s Centre in Kingston, Ontario, where the chairman of the board took the time on 15 March to write a letter to the area manager of the Ministry of Community and Social Services; very specifically, the first paragraph of that letter is this:

“Although our 1990-91 service plan and budget is not yet finalized, it is evident even at this point that the result of the increase in provincial funding being held to 4.5 per cent” -- that is the provincial funding that is going in; maybe 5 per cent but 4.5 in this case -- “will result in a reduction in mental health services Beechgrove provides to children and families of southeastern Ontario.”

This is all of southeastern Ontario. Need I talk about the services at Madame Vanier Children’s Centre in London, Ontario, where the same kind of letter will probably be presented and where a member of the board wrote not too long ago to the minister to say:

“I’ve been here for a number of years and it is not often that I would write a letter to the Minister of Community and Social Services. But I can tell you right now that we have got real problems in the delivery of services in this institution, and since I have been here a long time, I can tell you that we used to look at waiting lists, but they were for children that in fact were being served in some way elsewhere and right now they have nowhere to go.”

As I heard the representative of the government today speak about adolescent services, surely the members of this House know across the province, and we have known it for a long time that there is a serious shortage of mental health services for teenagers in Ontario. All of us in our job in 130 constituency offices across this province, day by day, have members of families coming and asking if we can help get their young children mental health services. There is a severe shortage of adolescent psychiatrists across this province. Everyone recognizes it. We cannot get young people to go into that field of medicine. How could anybody stand up in the House today and assume things are okay?

All this motion is doing is saying to recognize that there is a problem and then to get on with it. That is all it says, and I cannot believe that it could be interpreted in any other way. We will be circulating this motion and we will let the public of Ontario know what the government is doing. If they vote against this motion, I can tell members one thing, as a sincere member who wants to be part of the public discussion in this province and who has worked in children’s mental health services for the last decade: it will be because of sheer ignorance or arm-twisting that anybody could vote against this motion.

We are only asking for recognition of a serious problem and letting the agencies know that we are all on side and that we are going to try to do something about it together. That is all it is about.

Let me tell members about linkages to education, as a former school board trustee who used to be able to help refer these children to agencies. Right now the Education Act prohibits boards from purchasing services except from other school boards. There is a really difficult problem in legislation, and that is why the children’s mental health associations want a commission established immediately, so that the real linkages between health, education, corrections and the Ministry of Community and Social Services can be dealt with.

I will close by saying that there is a crisis in the delivery of children’s mental health services across the province. There is simply not universal access. A child’s mental health problem is something that has to be dealt with immediately. There should be no waiting lists. There are other ways of helping these families. The legislation does not allow us to do it. The transfer payments are not helping. In fact, they are reducing the quality and the level of service. That is a problem for all of us, but I would not want to see anyone vote against the recognition that we have a problem that we should be solving together.

Mr Keyes: I am pleased today also to speak to the resolution brought forward by the honourable member for Sarnia regarding the provision of children’s mental health services in Ontario because it does provide me with a few moments, all too briefly, to show how the government remains strongly committed to the provision of appropriate services to children who require mental health services.

This government’s commitment to providing this service system has been demonstrated over and over again in our recent accomplishments, funding which was referred to earlier by the honourable member for Ottawa-Rideau. The amount of $120 million in 1985 was increased to an estimated $188 million in this current year. In the same period, annual funding for children’s mental health centres has grown from $85 million to $112 million. Even after an adjustment, this represents an actual enrichment of some $18.5 million for these services.

On 6 April the Minister of Community and Social Services announced an enhancement to funding of these agencies of an additional one per cent, which will result in an additional $20.6 million for community agencies, including children’s mental health agencies. For example, the honourable member for London North referred to my own area of Kingston and The Islands. Our Beechgrove Children’s Centre will receive an additional $52,000 as a result of this recently announced one per cent enhancement, which will help significantly to address that centre’s expressed concerns regarding increased costs from pay equity and the employer health tax.

The ministry also released a report in January 1988 entitled Investing in Children. The directions given in that particular report were based on research and extensive consultation with service providers and other professionals. The report indicated that all of our work and service should have a dual focus: first, on the evaluation or the prevention and the earliest possible intervention, since these services promise to be the most effective and, second, on seriously and chronically disturbed children through the continued development of a responsive and co-ordinated services system.

In November 1989 the Minister of Community and Social Services released a report entitled Better Beginnings, Better Futures. A co-ordinated group of 25 prominent educators and researchers, community workers etc, reviewed and evaluated not only the literature but also 45 Ontario prevention programs for disadvantaged children. As a result of that study, the three ministries of Community and Social Services, Health and Education have initiated a major research demonstration project to test the effectiveness of primary prevention in services to children at risk.

They have committed some $3.5 million for each of five years to support services to children and families that address the whole range of their physical and social needs. They have addressed it to support those with high-quality programming, tailored to community needs. As the minister announced in the House in November, we will be launching six such community projects across the province during this coming summer. The Minister of Community and Social Services also committed continuing funding over the next 25 years for research and evaluation of the program’s effectiveness.

In terms of the resolution to which I am speaking today, I must disagree strongly with the honourable member’s statement that the government is not dealing with the issue of children’s mental health. Children’s mental health centres are publicly funded and are accessible to everyone, contrary to what the honourable member would attempt to have this House believe. We are working with these centres to address the issue of waiting lists.

The government is also in the process of examining and refining the current legislation. We are working in conjunction with the various groups of professionals who work in this field to evaluate current programs, extend these programs, add new ones where necessary and review the issue of comprehensive legislation. We recognize that there is an increasing demand for such services and that there is never enough money to do as many things in this province as we want to do in any ministry of government. But we also recognize that there are children in our communities who desperately need our help.

This government has made children’s mental health a priority since coming to office in 1985 and will continue to treat it as such. These concrete efforts demonstrate our commitment to children who need services for their mental health. For that reason I will not be supporting this resolution as presented today.

Mrs Grier: Unlike the representatives of the government party, I am very proud and very pleased to support the resolution that is before us today. We have heard a great deal of justification and explanation of what the government is doing and an assertion from the member for Kingston and The Islands that in fact children’s mental health is a priority for this government.

There are almost 10,000 children on waiting lists for mental health care in the province. If mental health care for children is a priority, I cannot understand how that figure exists. When I hear other representatives of the government boast about how the government is developing data to prioritize the needs of the children on waiting lists at these centres, I am appalled.

If a child is on a waiting list for a mental health centre, that child has a need. Surely it has to be the priority of all of us, whether we are members of the Legislature, whether we are parents, whether we are grandparents, whether we are just human beings, that a child in need and a child in crisis is a priority and has to receive the help he or she requires.

The government says how much more money it is spending. Let me point out that the $20 million in extra funding, if it is allocated for mental health centres, in my community of Etobicoke alone might provide for four centres -- we already have three -- might serve another 1,000 children. There are currently 2,535 children in my community of Etobicoke, with a population of 300,000, whose social, emotional and behavioural needs are not being met. So I will take that $20 million, put it in Etobicoke and then the province can worry about all the other communities. If that is what is going to happen, they are not meeting the needs.

Co-ordinating committees, moves from one ministry to another, health councils and meetings to discuss practical solutions -- we have been talking about all that for decades. The government could have all the discussions, conferences and forums to discuss how to meet the needs. If they do not have the money to provide the services, none of that amounts to improving the situation. The costs of this underfunding are severe in the families and the children affected. There is a waiting list of up to 10 months in Etobicoke for service, and every day of delay makes the problem worse.

The majority of the members of this Legislature, I suspect, are parents and I suspect very many of them have gone through a period in their own families when one of their kids was being a problem. Members know the stress that puts upon a family. Just think of the stress it puts upon the workers in those centres. The centres are underfunded, the case loads are too big and that results in a turnover of workers, in much greater stress and burnout and in inadequate service in those centres, let alone the inability to serve the need that is out there. The cost of not acting is so high to society as a whole, let alone to the individuals and to the families.

The Ontario Association of Children’s Mental Health Centres estimates the cost at being $3,400 per child who needs help. If that child does not get the help and ends up in our criminal justice system, we will all be paying $47,000 a year to support perhaps that child in one of our criminal institutions. If ever there was an argument for prevention on economic grounds, surely that was that.

But the argument for prevention is not just on economic grounds, it is on human grounds. As a society, surely we are going to be known by how we treat our children, how we protect our children. To have jurisdictional squabbles as to which ministry is responsible or whether the children’s aid is in fact responsible is not good enough. The children of this province have got to be a priority.

It is obvious from the fact that government members are not going to support this resolution today that the mental health of the children of our province is not a priority for this government, and that is shocking.

Mr Eves: I, for one, am not convinced that all government members are going to oppose this resolution in the House this afternoon. I would certainly think that it is in the best interests of the government and everybody in Ontario to support a very important resolution dealing with the health and wellbeing of Ontario’s children, who are certainly our most valuable resource.

I am sure we are all aware that one in six children is emotionally disturbed. I am sure we are aware that mental health problems account for a greater proportion of hospital days than medical problems for individuals between the ages of 15 and 20 years of age in Canada. Suicide ranks as the second major cause of premature death for individuals between the ages of 15 and 20 years in Canada.

From my own personal experience in my region of the province, mental health services are not as accessible as we would like. It is exemplified by the 10,000 children waiting for mental health treatment in children’s mental health centres across the province. There are waiting lists in hospital treatment centres and there is a shortage of child psychiatrists, especially in northern Ontario.

The seriousness of this problem is magnified by the fact that at least 10 per cent of those waiting for treatment over one year are considered critical cases. Examples of critical cases are children physically and sexually abused and cases which involve suicide and fire-setting.

The District of Parry Sound Child and Family Centre in 1989 had to put 179 children on a waiting list for treatment. The centre has had much difficulty retaining staff because salaries are much lower than those in the health sector. Concordia Center in North Bay currently has a waiting list in excess of 60 children, and over the past three months has not been able to accept one single more child for treatment. But this is not just a regional problem; it is indeed a province-wide problem.

For the minister’s and the government’s part, they seem to be prepared to rely on the Maloney report, the special advisory committee on children’s services, before they take action. Alex Thomson, who is the president of the Ontario Association of Children’s Mental Health Centres, says that Mr Maloney has spent exactly two hours in the last 17 months of his investigation talking to mental health professionals. I do not think that is sufficient.

If the minister truly believes what he says, and all members of the House believe in that, I think we will vote for this resolution today, because I think we all have a responsibility to ensure that all the children in Ontario have access to mental health services.

The Acting Speaker (Mr Cureatz): Continuing the rotation, I want to check with the Clerk’s table. Do we have time left?

Interjection.

The Acting Speaker: I realize the honourable member has placed a resolution, but has time expired for all the parties? I believe it has.

Interjection.

The Acting Speaker: Yes, it has. Fine. Then concluding remarks by the honourable leader of the third party.

Mr Brandt: I appreciate very deeply the indications of support from some of the speakers who have addressed the question of children’s mental health services in this province.

I drafted this particular resolution because of the indications of growing problems in our society that I believe very sincerely have to be faced head-on by this Legislature. These problems are not problems that are going to go away without our attention. They are not problems that are going to reduce in magnitude as a result of our simply ignoring the realities of what is going on in our schools and in our homes and across society in Ontario. They are problems that I believe we have a responsibility to do something about as quickly as we can.

Let me just for a brief moment address the question, since it was raised by the government members, of the amount of financing that is being made available and some of the increased funding to this particular program, and I appeal directly to the government members when I raise this particular issue.

It has been said that a 5½ per cent increase has been given to this area of government undertaking. I agree. We have no dispute with respect to that particular number. Where we do have a dispute, however, and where government members should search their souls in connection with this particular matter, is that this government has imposed on these agencies two very costly programs which they have no way of funding, since their sole source of revenue, as members well know, is the government of Ontario -- namely, the employer health levy and pay equity.

I do not take issue with pay equity and I do not take issue necessarily with the government’s right to impose a new tax. The fact of the matter is, I disagree with the tax. But the reality is, the government has performed some fiscal sleight of hand. It has taken with one hand and given a little bit with the other, and then it holds out this great promise of saying, “Well, we are going to give you five and a half per cent.” That is intellectually incorrect and members know it. It is just wrong, and it is morally wrong because the amount of increase –

Interjections.

Mr Brandt: I am glad I finally got the attention of the government members, because I hope they wake up to the fact that the waiting lists as a result of reductions in the staffing of these agencies, the closing of some of these agencies that are providing these services, are extremely troubling problems that I believe this Legislature has to stop. We are looking at waiting lists of 10,000, as we have already indicated today. Those waiting lists are going to grow. They are going to become even more troubling and increase in size.

Apparently in my own area, as an example, according to the director of the agency that looks after these services in my riding, if the government-imposed programs are taken into account with the very limited amount of funding that the government is going to provide by way of an increase, they have to reduce their staffing by three or four people. I indicated an agency the other day that has some eight different locations in which it operates. Two or three of those are going to have to close down as a result of inadequate funding. It is not a question of the money being adequate, because it is not.

The imposed costs on the part of this government are causing serious problems to these agencies.

I ask simply that members support this resolution, give a priority to children’s mental health services in this province. We have to move now.

ASSISTANCE TO FARMERS

The Deputy Speaker: Mr Wildman has moved resolution 46.

Motion agreed to.

CHILDREN’S MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES

The House divided on Mr Brandt’s motion of resolution 47, which was agreed to on the following vote:

Ayes -- 46

Adams, Allen, Brandt, Breaugh, Brown, Bryden, Campbell, Carrothers, Cooke, D. S., Cousens, Cunningham, Dietsch. Elliot, Epp, Eves, Farnan, Faubert, Fawcett, Furlong, Grier, Hampton, Jackson, Johnson, J. M., Kormos, Laughren, Leone, Martel, McGuigan, McLean, Morin-Strom, Nicholas, Oddie Munro, Owen, Philip, E., Pollock, Rae, B., Ray, M. C., Reville, Riddell, Roberts, Runciman, Sterling, Tatham, Velshi, Villeneuve, Wildman.

Nays -- 5

Daigeler, Keyes, Patten, Smith, E. J., O’Neill, Y.

The House recessed at 1215.

The House resumed at 1330.

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

PLANT CLOSURES

Mr Farnan: The Peterson Liberals are no friends of working men and women.

TAG Apparel employed 1,250 persons in Woodstock, London, Toronto and Cambridge. Last summer, management at TAG realized that in order to stay in business and keep much-needed jobs in these communities, changes were going to have to be made. Management and the union, the Textile Workers, agreed to make concessions and sacrifices. As a result, they hoped to keep the company afloat.

On 27 February, three working days before the employees and their advisers were to meet with the bank to outline their plans to save the company, the receivers were sent in. Since that time, it has been announced that all plants owned by TAG Apparel will close.

The 1,250 employees of this company took wage and benefit cuts in order to save their jobs. There were offers to buy these companies as operating entities, but they were ignored. This Liberal government could have assisted in restructuring, but preferred to sit on the sidelines and watch these jobs go down the tube.

In cases where employees of companies in financial difficulty have a specific plan to save the operation, surely the government has an obligation to assist these employees. If the government had said to the bank and the receiver, “Hold it, let’s look at the alternatives,” we would not have 1,250 people losing their jobs.

Even in closing, the Liberals are not friends of the workers. When it comes to wages, severance and vacation pay, the employees are left without protection -- protection that this Liberal government could have legislated long ago but has failed to do so.

GERRY CROWE

Mrs Marland: As the spokesperson for people with disabilities, it gives me great pleasure to rise today to congratulate Gerry Crowe, Mississauga’s Multiple Sclerosis Person of the Year for 1990.

In 1983, Gerry helped organize an MS self-help group in Mississauga, and he has been a key individual in keeping the group active. Meetings are held in his home and provide a warm, caring atmosphere for members and their families.

A positive mental attitude is of prime importance for persons with MS, and phone contact among members helps to reinforce that attitude. MS is usually harder on spouses and families than on the person with MS because of the feeling that they cannot really help. Gerry says his wife, Gayle, offers tremendous support to both him and the group.

Gerry’s current ambition is to get a strong telephone network among all persons in Mississauga with MS, not just those in the self-help group.

Now in his mid-40s, Gerry first noticed symptoms of MS during his late teens, and the disease was diagnosed when he was 30. He has always been active in sports, particularly hockey and golf, and had a nine handicap. Although mostly confined to a wheelchair, he uses a walker as much as possible and exercises daily to keep in shape.

Gerry finds woodworking a satisfying hobby and specializes in crafting beautiful clocks. His 14-year-old son, Russell, plays ball, is an ardent Blue Jay fan and receives lots of encouragement from his dad.

It is fitting that the Mississauga

chapter has recognized Gerry’s efforts to help others surmount their problems and face the challenges of everyday living. I am proud to pay tribute to his courage and inspiration.

SISTERS OF ST JOSEPH

Mr Adams: The Order of the Sisters of St Joseph was founded in France in the 17th century. Sisters came to St Louis in 1836, soon moving to Philadelphia. In 1851 a house was established in Toronto, then a town of 30,000, with offshoots across southern and northern Ontario soon to follow. In 1890, sisters moved to Lindsay, then Peterborough, which is now a mother house for projects across Canada and in South America.

Over the years, the sisters have worked as teachers, health care workers, care givers to the frail, elderly and orphans and as missionaries. They have ministered and continue to minister to native people, poor immigrants and the urban poor. They were there during the province’s great cholera, typhus and typhoid epidemics. They nurtured the very roots of the separate school system.

Every generation of sisters has adapted to its times, changing the emphasis of their work, changing their style and methods to address the special needs of the day. In our day, they are an eye of focused calm in the social turmoil of our times. Here is proof that continuity and change are possible together, continuity of belief and purpose, adaptation of good work based on belief. In this era of environmental concern, the sisters deserve our congratulations for their 100 years of service.

WORKERS’ COMPENSATION BOARD

Miss Martel: On 15 March, staff at the Workers’ Compensation Board wrote to the Premier to emphasize their concerns with conditions at the board. The chaos there has resulted from management’s attempt to implement four new major strategies in one year. Along with the strategies are new imaging, telephone and payment systems which were pushed as well. Combined, the following problems have resulted.

1. The new technology for processing cheques is flawed and has resulted in cheques not going out, too many cheques going out and many cheques with improper amounts being issued.

2. Accounts of chiropractors, physicians and pharmacists are not being paid regularly and these service providers are refusing to deal with injured workers. I have examples of this in my own riding.

3. The new phone system is a disaster and means workers and their representatives can rarely speak directly to WCB staff when calls are made. Two weeks ago, representatives from Local 6500 made 21 calls to the board before they actually spoke to a staff member instead of an answering machine.

4. The Workers’ Compensation Board reorganized its operations and created the integrated service units less than two years ago. They are now being reorganized yet again and management is intent on now applying this flawed model to the regional offices.

5. The WCB is advertising how Bill 162 will help workers, when in fact no internal policies have been developed to deal with those portions of the bill that went into effect 2 January.

These and other problems I will continue to raise, but they must be dealt with by the Minister of Labour.

INMATES’ MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES

Mr Cureatz: It grieves me somewhat to have to make this statement because, as members well know, from time to time I like to poke fun at all members and remind us all that we are hypocrites at times in this esteemed, august chamber.

However, the Minister of Correctional Services visited the community of Sault Ste Marie to announce plans for psychiatric services for the medium-security Northern Treatment Centre in that city. He spoke about the issue of day passes and explained that he was aware of concerns about -- and I am using his words, I regret to say, “crazy people running around.” In fact, the minister said the residents of the Sault need not worry about the so-called crazy people, because the centre will be dealing not with violent criminals but with people who have addictions to drugs and alcohol.

For the Minister of Correctional Services to be referring to inmates with psychiatric problems as crazy people is insulting and highly inappropriate.

Last week, I raised in this House the concerns of the growing number of psychiatric inmates in our institutions. By describing persons with psychiatric problems as crazy people, the minister is only reinforcing a very outdated and stereotyped atmosphere for institutions. He should be getting out and fighting for rehabilitation.

I spoke to him about the possibilities of selling the Whitby Jail to get the funds to build a new institution at the psychiatric treatment centre in Whitby. He told me his staff looked at it and there was not enough money. I say to the minister, that is his doggone job. He should get the money and build the new institution so that we can care for people.

LARISSA LOWING AND LISA FLOOD

Mrs Stoner: I would like to welcome to the House today two very talented young ladies from my riding, Larissa Lowing and Lisa Flood, and their very dedicated parents.

Lisa Flood is an 18-year-old swimmer who represented us in the Winter Nationals in Saskatoon, where she won a gold and two silver medals in the 100-, 200- and 50-metre breaststroke. Currently, Lisa is working with her coach to earn a spot on the Canadian national team and aspires to be part of our next Olympic team.

Lisa has been joined by Larissa Lowing in bringing the athletic spotlight to Durham region. Larissa is a 17-year-old gymnastics star who represented Canada at the Seoul Olympics and has recently represented us at the Commonwealth Games in Auckland. There, she helped her teammates finish first in the overall team competition and, in the individual finals, Larissa received two silver medals in the beam and floor competition, after an injury.

Mr and Mrs Lowing and Mr and Mrs Flood, your patience and support of your daughters has obviously paid off. I am sure you are very, very proud. I would ask the House to welcome to this chamber the Lowings and the Floods.

RENT REGULATION

Mr D. S. Cooke: Last week in the Legislature during question period, I raised a couple of examples of rent increases involving NHD Developments Ltd, which is owned by the Sorbara family. I would like to take this opportunity to update the Legislature with regard to the 62-unit complex in North York on Flax Garden Way. The tenants in that building are facing a 25 per cent increase in their rents, and the rent review decision is complete.

The rent review decision was made on 23 February 1990, but the decision affected rent levels as far back as 1 March 1989. As a result of the landlord being rewarded the rent increase of 25.7 per cent, some tenant families owe up to $1,500 in back rent. The tenants in this complex have received eviction notices from the Sorbara family indicating that they must pay all their back rent immediately.

Because of the shortage of housing in this community, the tenants have gone to the landlord and suggested that the back rent should be spread out over a longer period of time so that tenants are not economically evicted from the buildings. At this point, the position of the landlord is, “You pay up now or you are evicted,” and that is why the eviction notices have gone out.

Tenants all across this province are experiencing exactly the same problems because of the inefficiencies and the poorly planned rent review situation in Ontario. We in this party again call on this government to kill the rent review system as it currently exists and bring in rent controls in this province.

UKRAINAN CATHOLIC CHURCH

Mr Jackson: I am pleased to bring to the attention of all members of the House a singular and historic event in the life of the Ukrainian Catholic Church which will occur tomorrow, Good Friday, in the Ukraine.

Soon after the Ukrainian church was officially recognized by the Soviet government in December 1989, Ukrainian Catholics intensified their efforts to have their historical cathedral of St George in Lvov returned to them. St George’s is the primatial seat of the heads of the Ukrainian Catholic Church and is a deep symbol of Ukrainian religion and its national identity. The cathedral was confiscated by Soviet authorities in 1946 after the Ukrainian church was forcibly united to the Russian Orthodox Patriarchate that same year.

Last week, the Soviet government ordered that St George’s Cathedral be returned to the Ukrainian Catholics. The head of the church, Metropolitan Vladimir Sterniuk, will take formal possession of his episcopal chair tomorrow, which this year is Good Friday for all Christians, both east and west. He will join with members of his pastva to celebrate Easter in St George’s for the first time in almost half a century.

On behalf of the Progressive Conservative Party and as someone with deep ancestral Ukrainian roots, I would like to wish the worldwide Ukrainian community a most joyful and happy Easter as it continues to witness its church’s own unfolding resurrection.

MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS

Mr Mahoney: Following on the comments by my colleague the member for Mississauga South, I would like to announce the recent opening of a resource centre for the Mississauga

chapter of the Multiple Sclerosis Society of Canada. This resource centre will act as a central place of contact in Mississauga for persons with multiple sclerosis, the public and the chapter’s volunteers, as well as offering literature, information and support to persons with MS and their families.

Multiple sclerosis is the most common central nervous system disease of young adults in Canada. It interferes with the brain’s ability to control such functions as seeing, walking and talking, just to name a few. In fact, more than 50,000 Canadians are affected with MS and, as of today, the medical profession has discovered neither the cause nor the cure for this dreaded disease.

Multiple sclerosis has touched my family in recent years and I have come to realize the important role that the local chapters of the Multiple Sclerosis Society of Canada play in the lives of the persons with MS and their families and friends.

The initial impact on a family when MS is discovered in a loved one is shock, disbelief and bewilderment. After these feelings fade, you begin to realize the inner strength of the victim and how that strength is actually support for the family. MS has actually made my family grow stronger as a result of the need to deal with this disease, and we have appreciated the support of the society.

I too offer my congratulations to Gerry Crowe on being named MS Person of the Year by the Mississauga chapter.

STATEMENT BY THE MINISTRY

BUDGET

Hon R. F. Nixon: I would like to advise the House that I intend to present the budget to the Legislature on Tuesday 24 April at 4 pm.

RESPONSES

BUDGET

Mr Laughren: I received the four pages in the brown envelope containing the Treasurer’s announcement. Ever since this person became Treasurer of Ontario, we on this side have been trying to convince this Treasurer that there is a better way to tax the citizens of this province. Every year, we lay before the Treasurer some options that would allow him to raise at least as much money, if not more, but to do so in a much fairer fashion.

We have told the Treasurer how he can impose a minimum corporate tax -- follow the lead of Ronald Reagan in the United States and have a minimum corporate tax -- told him how he can increase the tax credits –

Hon Mrs Caplan: Say that again.

Mr Laughren: Well, if even Ronald Reagan brings in a minimum corporate tax and this Treasurer will not, what does that tell the members about this Treasurer compared to the Ronald Reagans of this world? There is some difference.

We have asked the Treasurer to increase the tax credits. The tax credits in this province are worth less than they were when they were brought in by the Conservatives back in 1974, I believe. They have eroded over the years. There is an opportunity to remove everyone who is below the Statistics Canada poverty level from the tax rolls in the province. That is an opportunity that has been wasted by this Treasurer.

We have asked him time and again to bring in a land speculation tax to stop the flipping of lands and properties, which increases the prices of homes and also, of course, by pass-through, increases rents for tenants, particularly in Metropolitan Toronto.

Of all the 24 countries in the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development, only two do not have a wealth tax: Canada and Australia. Only two countries out of the 24 OECD countries have no wealth tax; we are one of them. There is an opportunity there for the Treasurer to tax people in this province who can afford to pay some more, so it is not as though there are not opportunities.

We shall also be looking for the Treasurer, in his budget, to provide some more jobs to communities such as Windsor. My colleague the member for Windsor-Riverside has made a passionate and even coherent plea to the Treasurer on numerous occasions to diversify and bring some public sector jobs to the city of Windsor, the way it has been done in some other communities, for which we have complimented the government. That does need to be done.

It is going to be fine for the Treasurer to stand in his place on 24 April and announce to the world that he has a balanced budget. But I would ask the Treasurer, on whose backs did he bring in that balanced budget? There are still thousands of people in this province well below the poverty line established by Statistics Canada who are paying provincial income tax. It is completely unnecessary. We told him where he can get the money and still have a tax system that is appropriate for Ontario and, at the same time, he could remove a lot of misery. There is no question that the number of food banks in this province has grown directly as a result of his perverse tax policies.

Mr Brandt: I welcome the announcement by the Treasurer because we on this side of the House, and particularly in our party, have great expectations about the budget that the Treasurer will be tabling before this House in April. This may well be a historic budget in many respects, because the Treasurer may find it in the goodness of his heart, and in the wealth that he has accumulated through very significant increases in budgets in the past, to bring in -- can my friends believe this? -- a no-increase budget for the first time.

I fully expect that that no-increase budget, which I anticipate is what the Treasurer will be tabling with us, will be the forbearer of other announcements which will follow shortly thereafter.

But I would like to say to the Treasurer with respect to the budget which he plans on bringing in, it is about time that we in Ontario looked very carefully at our competitive position. There is an

article in the paper today about firms that are looking to the United States for locations, primarily in the Buffalo area, because it is so much easier and less expensive to do business in that particular jurisdiction. The reasons they are going over there are very simple. This Treasurer has brought in some 32 or more tax increases over the course of the past four or five years. Those tax increases include the employer health levy, and they include a first-time-only commercial concentration tax to make sure that we put every kind of impediment in the path of anybody who wants to create jobs in this province.

We want to stop them cold in their tracks, and that is what the Treasurer has done with previous budgets.

Now he goes asking for forgiveness, he goes on bended knee before the people of this province and says: “Look at what I’m doing. I’m bringing in