2002 Legislative Session: 3rd Session, 37th Parliament

HANSARD

The following electronic version is for informational purposes

only.

The printed version remains the official version.

Official Report of

DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

(Hansard)

MONDAY, OCTOBER 7, 2002

Morning Sitting

Volume 8, Number 11

CONTENTS

Routine

Proceedings

Page

Private Members' Statements

Transportation

J. Wilson

Hon. J. Reid

Volunteers in the Community

H. Long

Hon. C. Clark

Tough Issues — A Compassionate Response

P. Nettleton

Hon. L. Reid

The Importance of Good Dental Health

J. Weisbeck

Hon. S. Hawkins

Second Reading of Bills

The Hunting and Fishing Heritage Act (Bill M204) (continued)

P. Bell

B. Belsey

R. Hawes

B. Lekstrom

H. Long

[ Page 3781 ]

MONDAY, OCTOBER 7, 2002

The House

met at 10:03 a.m.

Mr.

Speaker: Good morning, hon. members. Welcome back. I trust everyone had a

pleasant summer. The member for Bulkley Valley–Stikine will lead us in prayer.

Prayers.

[1005]

Private Members' Statements

TRANSPORTATION

Wilson: A good morning to everyone. It's indeed a pleasure for me to rise

this morning in the House and present a private member's statement. What I would

like to speak about is the development of our province and the role that our

roads and highways have played in bringing us to where we are today.

I would

like to step back to the 1850s, when the only industry we had in what we know as

B.C. today was the fur trade. Believe it or not, the fur traders were opposed to

any development beyond Hope. In 1859 gold was discovered on the Quesnel River. A

couple of years later a large discovery was made near what we know as

Barkerville today. This precipitated one of the largest gold rushes in our

history. People began pouring in from all over the world. They had gold fever.

In order to reach the goldfields, these people had to travel over 400 miles in

some of the most treacherous terrain imaginable. They set out by water up the

Fraser River and then carried on by foot.

The

governor of the colony at that time was Sir James Douglas. He had the foresight

to recognize the importance of developing the region beyond Hope and recognized

the need for the safety of the thousands of people travelling to the goldfields.

In 1861, Douglas began construction of a wagon road from Yale up the Fraser

River to Barkerville, and it eventually reached Barkerville in 1865. This was a

true megaproject considering that all the work was done by hand and with horses

and the only high-tech equipment on site was wheelbarrows.

With this

road came settlements, and the ranching industry was born. In 1865, Barkerville

was the largest centre west of Chicago and north of San Francisco. Barkerville

today is one of B.C.'s prized heritage sites.

This wagon

road was the beginning of Highway 97. It's our north-south connector, running

the full length of the province, and has been our lifeline in the north for many

years. The construction of 97 as we know it today was completed for the most

part in the early sixties. In the seventies we witnessed another highway boom.

The Highways minister at that time was Alex Fraser, and he held the riding that

I represent today.

We've come

a long way since 1865 because of leaders with vision. We have three east-west

connectors; many, many secondary roads and Highway 97, which still moves the

majority of our resources in this province.

During the

nineties B.C. experienced some of the best economic times this province has ever

seen. Unfortunately, the government of the day did not believe in maintaining

and building our highway infrastructure. Instead they doubled the debt, and they

wasted billions of dollars, actually.

[1010]

We need

safe, dependable highways to travel on. Highway 97 is now 40 years old, and

other highways in this province are older than that. They were not constructed

to handle the volume of traffic that there is today.

Last week I

was driving back to the riding. Going up through the canyon, boredom overcame

me, so I started counting trucks. In the 50 kilometres between Spences Bridge

and Cache Creek I encountered 67 highway trucks. That's a truck every 28

seconds.

In Quesnel

we have a major problem with logging trucks. Upwards of 500 loads a day are

added to already congested traffic where Highway 97 goes through the city. With

the pine beetle situation, the number of trucks is expected to increase

dramatically. A second crossing on the Fraser River would alleviate most of

these additional problems, as these trucks are coming in from the west and going

to Two Mile Flat.

As a new

government we have committed to a balanced budget by the end of the first term,

but we also understand the need to provide a solid base for the economy to grow.

I feel we are doing extremely well with our highway programs. More money has

been spent on maintenance in my riding in the last year than the total for the

last ten years under the previous government. As well, construction of a new

bridge on the Cottonwood River this fall will be a real improvement to the

safety of Highway 97.

Some people

have questioned why this project got the go-ahead, as the road is fine. All you

have to do is slow down. That's not the first time this conversation has

occurred. It happened way back in the twenties when the first vehicles began

using the old Cariboo wagon road. The drivers complaining about some of the

hairpin corners would find little sympathy from the stagecoach drivers, whose

comments would have been: "All you have to do is slow down." There

will always be people who question decisions and want to maintain the status

quo, but we are moving forward and providing the kind of leadership that this

province voted for.

Hon. J.

Reid: It's interesting going back over the history of the province and

looking at what did bring about the development we have and the opportunities we

now enjoy. Certainly, some of the things have never changed. We had treacherous

terrain many, many years ago; we still have treacherous terrain.

This summer

I had the opportunity of being on the short portion of the original wagon road

that was there — built with a lot of sacrifice — to be able to deliver

people for the development that the gold rush brought.

[ Page 3782 ]

It is a remarkable achievement, but we see that with the overgrown trail and

what we now have for roads, capacity continues to need to be added as we do grow

and develop in this province.

The

investments that were made in the 1960s and 1970s in roads were farsighted and

were an investment in the province. We've been able to enjoy that capacity, but

we have also now been consuming that capacity on those roads. We have the

situation, as the member mentioned, that while the number of logging trucks

going through Quesnel is a problem, it is also wonderful to see there is still

that activity going on in these difficult times.

We want to

make sure we're doing our best to provide for that traffic, to have a good flow

of goods and services through this province. As the member mentioned, Highway 97

is a major trade route corridor in the province both from past history and

certainly because of present conditions.

We are

looking at working with the city of Quesnel. I had the pleasure of meeting them

at the UBCM to talk about the options and the opportunities that exist there.

The Cottonwood Bridge and the work that's going to be done on the Cottonwood

Bridge — $9 million, to be able to make the improved access and the new bridge

— are going to be really important, again, to maintain the integrity of that

crossing and to make sure that the city of Quesnel is well served.

[1015]

We are

looking, though, at other opportunities. As we are having to develop new

infrastructure and having the challenge all over the province of new

infrastructure, there are opportunities to partner with different levels of

government, as was done with the Cottonwood Bridge with the partnering with the

federal government, as well as looking at partnering with industry to achieve

the goals that we need to achieve.

The city of

Quesnel was talking about a new bridge, an improved road alignment, which would

mean more efficient transportation of goods and would certainly alleviate some

of the problems in the downtown

section of Quesnel. We want to pursue that idea;

we want to investigate it. We know that a second crossing — another bridge

there — would be about $22 million to $25 million, and that would certainly

redirect a lot of this heavy commercial traffic away from the downtown core. It

would also bypass a slide zone that the community has concern about, knowing

that it exists and knowing that if there was an emergency, there would be

problems with access into that area.

We are

proceeding to see whether there is a business case that can be developed, to see

whether there are opportunities for public-private partnerships and to continue

to work with the local forest companies and derive the very best benefits for

all the people of this province and certainly for the people of Quesnel.

Wilson: First, let me thank the hon. minister for her comments. It's quite

obvious that she has a real in-depth understanding of the needs and the

challenges that face us.

I find it

fascinating how history tends to repeat itself. We've had leaders with

foresight, and then we've had some with hindsight — that's always 20-20 —

but as the pendulum moves, so does our province. We can only surmise where we

would be today if Mr. Douglas had not been a man of vision and a man of action.

The naysayers were wrong as usual. The fur industry is still alive and well in

British Columbia.

Now, the

interior may have started with the fur industry, but it was mining that really

got the ball rolling. Lately, in the last ten years, mining has had some

setbacks — yes, we all acknowledge that — but it's still alive, and once

again it is going to play a very important role in our future. The forest

industry is now the main driver of our economy, and tourism has grown to become

a very significant player. These are our resource industries, and they all

depend on our highway infrastructure. We as a new government are faced with

severe economic conditions. However, to borrow an old cliché, when the going

gets tough, the tough get going, and we are already moving down that road.

We are

looking, as the minister said, for new innovative ways of doing things through

public-private partnerships. It's a great opportunity for industry, for the

private sector and for governments to work together to build a stronger British

Columbia. The Cariboo gold rush was an exciting time in our history, and now we

have another opportunity for a unique, exciting step forward. That's the Winter

Olympics. This will bring in tourists by the millions, and they will want to

travel this great province. We are extremely fortunate here to have a Premier

who understands the importance of our highways in this province and has the

determination to keep us going through these hard times. He's already taken the

lead in highway safety on the Coast and the Trans-Canada Highway, partnering

with the federal government to rebuild and get some improvements done.

The Premier

more than anyone understands the importance of our highways and the role they

play in the future development of our resource industries. If Sir James Douglas

were alive today, he would be proud of the Premier and say: "Good on you.

Let the gold rush begin."

[1020]

VOLUNTEERS IN THE COMMUNITY

H. Long:

Mr. Speaker, it's a delight to be back in the House in the fall session. I look

forward to a great session this fall.

The true

value of a volunteer lies in the things you don't see, hear or read about. While

the intent of volunteering is not publicly recognized, the value that volunteers

add to the social fabric of our communities should never go unnoticed. In the

time allotted me today, I would like to give you a glimpse of the contributions

made by volunteers in my riding of Powell River–Sunshine Coast, to pay tribute

to individuals who are unsung heroes of our communities and to recognize

[ Page 3783 ]

the strength that lies in their numbers when people come together in a common

cause.

The St.

Mary's Hospital auxiliary makes up a total of 493 volunteers, which include the

Candystripers. This is the highest membership in British Columbia. As a member

of the B.C. Association of Health-Care Auxiliaries, this dedicated group of

individuals clocked a total of 60,567 volunteer hours and raised $267,487 last

year alone. I commend them for their efforts. The Powell River Hospital

Auxiliary also provides an excellent community service through the work of 228

volunteers. In addition to sponsoring the Candystripers, the auxiliary also

raises funds for hospital equipment, offers school tours and operates a gift

shop in the hospital, among other things.

Two more

groups I would like to highlight today are the Sunshine Coast Community Services

Society and the Powell River Community Services Association, who together keep

over a hundred volunteers busy. The two organizations complement one another as

they work to sponsor various social, health, educational and housing services

for our residents.

Most people

have heard of the Meals on Wheels program, which is provided through home

support services. But how many people are aware that each delivery is made by a

volunteer driver?

Next is a

salute to all senior volunteers who keep the seniors centres humming.

This

government celebrates and encourages the work of volunteers and compliments the

number of programs and services we offer, especially for society's more

vulnerable. I believe the greater involvement residents have in the delivery of

such invaluable service, the stronger the community will be.

Recognition

of volunteers would not be complete without a hats-off to the wonderful

contributions of service clubs like the Kiwanis Club, the Lions, the Shriners,

the Loyal Order of Moose and the Rotary Club. Furthermore, our riding boasts a

total of six Royal Canadian Legions. Another invaluable service provided in the

community of Powell River–Sunshine Coast is added safety and peace of mind

made possible by Citizens on Patrol and Court Watch.

Along the

same lines, local RCMP also are beyond their regular duties through the

volunteering and fundraising in Cops for Cancer and Tour for a Friend programs.

Proceeds from both these successful events go to pediatric cancer research and

Camp Good Times. I'm also very proud of the work done in our riding by more than

330 volunteer firefighters who double their volunteer duties by taking on

various charitable fundraising initiatives.

Let's also

not forget all the folks who struggle daily with their own illness but

nevertheless manage to continue doing their part for the community. A great

example of such dedication is Esther Andow, now almost 90 years young and still

growing her beautiful flowers, which she sells to raise money for the blind. For

more than ten years Esther tirelessly attended her loving task, thus providing

many thousands of dollars to the Lions Club. Despite her failing health, this

year she managed to raise $600 for the blind.

Another

champion of this cause is Dr. Geraldine Braak of Powell River. In 1971, Dr.

Braak became legally blind, and in 1976 she was instrumental in establishing a

Canadian Council of the Blind White Cane Club in Powell River. She became the

first president of the club, a position she still holds today. Geraldine was

also instrumental in fundraising for the development of a play area on

Willingdon Beach, which was designed to take into consideration participation of

children with disabilities.

Next is a

salute to the folks like Anne Quinn of the Sechelt Indian band who have, over

the many years, been busy complementing and documenting the native language of

the Sechelt people. Not only have her efforts led to the native language being

taught in nursery school to grade 12, with a language credit for older students

going on to university, but her work has also ensured that aspects of culture

are not lost with the loss of language.

Whether it

is one person or the collaboration of a community, the people of my riding have

a lot to be proud of, like the tremendous outpouring of support from the

residents of Powell River who in 1987, along with the RCMP across the country,

formed the Bruce Denniston Bone Marrow Society, which raised over $2 million for

the Canadian Bone Marrow Foundation registry.

[1025]

The

community of Powell River also benefits from the lifetime work of a man named

Pat Thompson, who now has a street named after him. Pat is, by the way, about 95

years old. The street leads to Powell River General Hospital. Pat served on the

hospital board for 37 years. In addition to this, Pat also had an initial

involvement in the March of Dimes annual fund, which led to the establishment of

United Way in Powell River 20 years ago.

Last but

certainly not least, I would like to recognize the hard work and commitment of

the parents in our communities who help schools with fundraising, coaching and

more, and also the teachers who spend their evenings ensuring that students'

extracurricular activities are both safe and enjoyable.

It has been

just over a year since guarantees for parent volunteers were put into

legislation, and I believe we are beginning to see the benefits. Parents are

vital partners in education, and their contribution to a quality education

system is priceless. Not only are the children and youth of our riding blessed

with dedicated parents and teachers, but as you can see, they also have an

abundance of role models in the community who continue to give themselves so

freely.

Hon. C.

Clark: I have been to Powell River recently, and I can attest personally to

the fact that it is a community filled with people who are prepared to

contribute to their local citizens, to sacrifice their time, to share their

knowledge and to share their sense of community

[ Page 3784 ]

with their fellow neighbours. It is truly a remarkable community in that

respect.

I met

Geraldine when I was in Powell River. It was a privilege to meet her. She has

been involved in assisting people with disabilities all of her life, and she's

made a tremendous mark in doing that. In particular, right now she's working on

programs for disabled children in schools. She's full of ideas, creativity and a

willingness to share her time and her knowledge with her community. She's a rare

individual indeed but not so rare, because Powell River is filled with people

who are prepared to make those kinds of sacrifices.

In our

education system we are blessed with many, many people who are prepared to

volunteer and give of their time in order to make sure that young people's

education is improved. When we brought in the legislation last year to guarantee

parents the right to volunteer, we did it with the knowledge that there are

thousands of parents out there who are prepared to make sure that they will do

what they need to do to make sure their children get the education they need. We

know that the more parents are involved in their children's education, the

better those children do.

There are

legions of examples across the province where parents have gone in to read to

classes, to build a garden outside a classroom, to share their knowledge of what

it is to be a firefighter or a nurse, to bring in bones for people to look at

and talk about how the human body is constructed — parents from all different

backgrounds, from all different professions who are prepared to share their time

and knowledge in the benefit of young people's education — and teachers who

are prepared to sacrifice their time, in addition to the time that they get paid

for, for being there during school hours, to make sure extracurricular

activities go on. My father was one of those people, and I can't count the

number of nights that my father wasn't there around the dinner table because he

was out coaching basketball or tutoring a kid from his math class who maybe

needed a little extra help.

In British

Columbia we are blessed with thousands and thousands of teachers who are

prepared to make those kinds of sacrifices not because they get paid for it, but

because they love kids, and they love imparting knowledge to those children.

It's magic to see what happens when a teacher or a parent sits down with a child

and imparts knowledge and tells them something they didn't know — maybe gets

their mind moving in a direction it had never moved before. That's magic. In

British Columbia we are blessed with volunteers across our province who perform

that kind of magic every day. Thank you very much.

[1030]

H. Long:

I want to thank the minister for her kind words about my community. I think

she's entirely right about the volunteers throughout our province.

As we all

know, the Queen was here yesterday at the Legislature and also at the hockey

game to drop the puck. At that time, I think something got missed for volunteers

who were at the Run for the Cure for breast cancer. It was a huge event in

Vancouver. I was there with a friend. A lot of people took

part in that. Tens of

thousands of people were involved across Canada, but in Vancouver there was a

huge turnout. It was absolutely spectacular, and it shows you the kind of people

that get involved in volunteering for friends and make it work.

Volunteers

are the backbone of our communities. Volunteers unselfishly give of themselves

every single day. I think it's important to remember, when we talk about these

volunteers, that we're talking about people — each and every one of them that

gives their time. I think I've missed a lot of those people in what I did today

in my speech about the volunteers, and I want to say that each and every one of

those volunteers has to be recognized, from the smallest to the largest. I want

to say today that without volunteers, this community, this Canada, this B.C.

would not be what they are, and I really say that we take our hats off to our

volunteers and that we thank them each and every day.

TOUGH ISSUES —

A COMPASSIONATE RESPONSE

Nettleton: Tough choices, a compassionate response. Thank you for this

opportunity to speak here today. I believe we're about one-third of the way into

our current mandate, and I have, as we all have, begun to get a strong sense of

our accomplishments and, what's more, the work yet to be done. I will devote my

time in this private member's statement to discussing how important I feel it is

for us as lawmakers, and as those who have the important task of representing

and standing up for ordinary British Columbians, to strive for and to maintain a

balance between the tough decisions we have to make and the resulting need for a

compassionate response at the same time.

Now, please

allow me to explain what I'm getting at here. One-third in, and we can surely

agree that we've been through some difficult days together in making many

changes — changes to set straight a decade or so of incompetence, of willful

neglect and of errors made by past government. When it comes to cutting taxes,

getting on the road towards balancing the books, refocusing health care dollars

to patients; when it comes to giving school boards more autonomy to deliver

quality education to our children as referred to by the previous members, in the

course of these important tasks we have before us, I believe it's imperative in

addressing the so-called macro-issues like revitalizing the economy, restoring

sound fiscal management and those goals and at the same time the so-called

micro-issues that those effects of the big picture on the little people, the

disabled, the homeless, the addicted, and so on, are considered too — in

short, the need to continue with a compassionate response to tough issues at

every step of the way and regarding everything we do as elected representatives.

At the

ground level — for example, in our constituency offices — we attempt this

balancing act virtually every day, often relying on our staff and the limited

[ Page 3785 ]

resources they have. When it comes to WCB files, for example, and getting

longstanding claims resolved, I presently have one fellow with a claim going

back 40 years, if you would believe it. That's simply unacceptable.

I have

dedicated much time and effort to assisting the Fraser–Fort George Regional

Museum, better known as Exploration Place, in their efforts to provide a

world-class education and museum experience. In a time when governments, by

necessity and by design, no longer just pull the magic tax lever to come up with

funding and in a time when families have to make difficult choices about where

to spend their disposable income, or at the ground level helping constituents

get information on when their medical procedure will be and in the north, of

course, helping them get to where that procedure will be, this is a common

balancing act.

We also

strive for this balance between tough decisions and a compassionate response

every day at the riding level, such as with elementary school closures in school

district 57, as in many other districts. I attended many meetings with parents

such as those from the now-closed Gladstone Elementary School, no doubt all

greatly concerned about their children's education and their children's future.

[1035]

In May, I

marched with local parent advisory councils to get a better idea of their real

concerns. On this note, I'm grateful for the dedicated efforts of the local

school board trustees that were faced with making difficult choices. Like us in

this House, the school trustees have shared similar experiences with us when it

comes to the need to make tough decisions.

Yet another

example at the riding level is the effort to maintain access to justice services

in the community of Vanderhoof, the geographic centre of British Columbia. The

eagerness to work together on this issue both from the Vanderhoof officials and

from our own here in Victoria, in particular the Attorney General, has led to a

successful resolution with the establishment of a circuit court just last week.

These efforts will be much appreciated by the many people in this part of our

great province that require access to courts. When I think of this, I am

grateful for the open-door access to the members of cabinet when it comes to

these difficult riding files.

As a

enjoy, this willingness on the part of cabinet to roll up their sleeves and

assist all members of the House and this attitude of openness was not the case

under the previous government. This is something I wish to clearly make known to

everyone.

I should

further note that the many, many visits by the members of cabinet to northern

communities on a regular basis, taking time out of their busy schedules, are

viewed by the people of the north as a welcome and refreshing change. You might

say it even comes as a surprise to some, but certainly a pleasant and welcome

surprise. This is the kind of representation that is necessary if we are to

continue to seek to achieve this balance of managing to make tough decisions

while at the same time being respectful of the just as important need to make

these tough decisions in a compassionate manner. When I continue my comments,

Mr. Speaker, I would like to provide some examples at the provincial level of

where I believe this balance is being achieved.

Hon. L.

Reid: I'm pleased to rise today and perhaps give a snapshot in response to

my hon. colleague from Prince George–Omineca — a snapshot of the kinds of

supports and resources we're putting in place for very young children in British

Columbia. It certainly complements the work he is doing in his riding and that

my colleagues are doing in their ridings across the province.

Many of you

will know what a challenge it is for children with fetal alcohol syndrome. It's

an enormous challenge. We are, indeed, expanding the Building Blocks program

across the province. We will probably double, this year, the number of programs

available. Will that be a support to families? Yes. Will it craft the outcome we

all desire, which is healthier, full-term, full-weight infants? Absolutely. That

is the goal. When children reach their first school experience, we want them to

have the best possible opportunity. How we build that opportunity with families

across the province is absolutely the goal.

We have

learning sites across British Columbia that bring together networks of

excellence, people who are truly committed to crafting great, great learning

opportunities for children. Again, when those children enter the school system

in Prince George–Omineca, they have opportunities they may otherwise not have

had. So it's vitally important. That brings into play all kinds of folks across

the spectrum: public health nurses, educators, community folks, families,

parents, all the people that collectively share the child as they go forward in

terms of crafting the best possible learning environment. Again, it's vitally

important.

Infant

development programs in British Columbia. Those are the individuals who deal

with the most vulnerable babies born in the province — little tiny souls who

need supports, who need ongoing support and guidance in terms of the best

possible resources and how to acquire them in a variety of communities across

the province. There are some little tiny souls who need ongoing speech language

therapy, occupational therapy or physiotherapy, whose parents need support in

terms of building on the kinds of opportunities that they would wish for those

babies. It's vitally important that we continue to enhance those programs and

continue to deliver the best possible programs.

[1040]

The

children who are a little bit older, which the hon. member acknowledged, can and

will be supported by family places and neighbourhood houses across the province,

because it is about compassion. It is about families, parents, babies, children,

young people feeling welcome. Indeed, it was my pleasure to be in Surrey-Whalley

on Friday for the opening of Whalley Family Place.

[ Page 3786 ]

It's

vitally important that we continue to build those resources in communities so

that people have a comfort zone. We want people to feel welcome, and we want

them to be confident enough to reach out for assistance when they require it. To

have community places that are readily accessible only makes good sense. Again,

you will see this administration supporting that level of endeavour in terms of

supporting families.

Many of you

will know that sometimes, as a parent, the best approach is better information.

People often have said: "Well, if I knew that, that decision may have been

easier." We have joined with the Ministry of Health Planning, my colleague

to my right, in terms of producing the Baby's Best Chance series, a

vitally important document to support families, and not just families who have

brand-new babes but individuals who are anticipating becoming pregnant —

wondrous prenatal information, nutritional information, how to take folic acid

and to do all the things that can contribute to the outcome of a healthy infant.

That

document is before us. We are going into production on two more documents. We

have Toddler's First Steps , and we have Preschoolers Ready to Learn .

All of those supports will support my hon. colleague in his riding as they go

forward to produce the best possible students they can produce.

One of the

other areas that we're concentrating heavily on in this mandate is aboriginal

early childhood development — vitally important that we do what we can, what

is required with community, build capacity with community. This is not about

government once again imposing any process on any aboriginal community in

British Columbia. This is about working together to build capacity, to build

resiliency, to do the things that make sense for community. Will it be a

one-size-fits-all proposition across the land? Absolutely not. It will be about

individualizing to individual community, tailoring the needs of community to the

service that might be available — vitally important that we do that.

Many of you

will know that we've worked very closely with Dr. Clyde Hertzman from the

University of British Columbia. We will continue to evaluate, and we will go

forward from the basis of the best science in terms of making wondrous strategic

investment in the area of early childhood development.

Nettleton: Thank you, minister, for your kind and appropriate comments. I

think we all know what you stand for and the good work you're doing, and we

thank you for that.

appreciate your continuing efforts, not only hon. minister but hon. members,

because like all of us, beyond the riding level we also, as members of this

House, must keep in mind the balance between tough choices and a compassionate

response when it comes to the provincial issues that impact all of us. Here

there have been some areas where we've done this with success, and I will

mention just a few.

Increases

in MSP premiums come to mind since at the same time we've greatly expanded the

eligibility for premium assistance and, more so, premium relief completely. The

truth-in-budgeting legislation will, as well, go a long way to ensuring that the

limited funds we have are spent in an accountable manner. The same can be said

for the waste-buster website, open tendering on government contracts, ministry

service plans and the hard work of the fiscal review panel, to name a few.

All of

these commitments — commitments that were made, that were honoured — will go

a long way to ensuring that the funds we have are put where they are needed the

most: increased funding for first nations programs, boosting health care

spending to more than $10 billion, pay cuts for all of us here as part of

overall reductions in government funding in various ways.

These are

what I mean by the need for a compassionate response to the tough decisions we

have made and will continue to make. I think this House, this government, should

be cognizant of this goal and this aim for balance at all times as we go about

our duties throughout this mandate — to recognize, to declare that none of us,

none of our families, none of our friends and foes alike, even, remain

untouched. Indeed, all of us have felt in some way the effects of necessary

changes, and in carrying out the changes that are made we will acknowledge and

will recognize whenever possible the hardships created for some by these changes

— the ones that might fall through the cracks, so to speak — and then do

what is within our power, within our larger vision, within our resources to

mitigate and minimize these foreseen yet unavoidable hardships.

[1045]

I don't

think this is such a tall order. Keeping the need for this balance in mind, in

my view, will not only allow us as a government to turn the province around but

to do so in a way that garners us respect and deep but long-lasting support from

all British Columbians. This much is something I intended and will continue to

do to the best of my abilities.

THE IMPORTANCE OF

GOOD DENTAL HEALTH

Weisbeck: Good morning, everyone. You know, I sold my dental practice in

1996 after 25 years of practice. I never thought I'd be standing in this House

speaking about cavities and gum disease. My statement was prompted by a request

for help by a Kelowna dentist, Dr. Ian Leitch. He was representing a number of

dentists in Kelowna who were offering their services for free dental service to

some of the needy in our community. They recognized the need for access to good

dental care.

Before I

talk about the solution to this access problem, I'd like to talk about the

importance of good dental health — or good oral health, because there is a

distinction between the two. There was a brief done for the Commission on the

Future of Health Care in Can-

[ Page 3787 ]

ada, and it was prepared by the Canadian Association of Public Health

Dentistry. The quote taken out of this brief was a quote by the Surgeon General

on oral health in the United States. He recognizes that oral health and general

health should not be interpreted as separate entities.

Oral health

is integral to general health, and oral health means more than healthy teeth.

You cannot be healthy without oral health, and there's often a disconnect.

People almost feel there's a separation between the oral cavity and the rest of

the body, and it's absolutely not true. Just to better understand that

situation, that connection, the oral cavity is a very, very vascular area. There

is a very large number of blood vessels in your oral cavity, and those of you

who've had a cut or an abrasion in your mouth know that bleeding can occur very

readily.

As a result

of this blood supply, our mouths heal very quickly. That's the positive side. On

the other side, however, this blood supply can also pick up micro-organisms and

their products and pass them into the bloodstream. Any decay, abscessed teeth or

periodontal disease can spread throughout the rest of your body. The same blood

that's nurturing your teeth and gums passes through your heart and the rest of

your vital organs, in some cases compromising an already-existing problem. In

the case of rheumatic fever, for example, you've had scarring of the tissue in

the heart by having bacteremia, bacteria in the bloodstream, and you can cause

further damage.

Recent

research evidence suggests that oral disorders can have a significant impact on

systemic health and the quality of life. They affect the well-being of

individuals and society as a whole, and they have a huge impact on our health

care system. Talk about dental decay. It's the disease caused by bacterial

infection. It's caused when you have a combination of certain bacteria-causing

bacteria in your mouth, foods usable by these bacteria and susceptible teeth.

When they are in contact long enough, you get bacterial by-products and

demineralization of the enamel. Ultimately, obviously, this can spread to the

case where you have an abscessed tooth.

It is one

of the most common disorders of childhood, affecting 60 percent of

five-to-17-year-olds. A more severe case of this, early childhood caries,

affects the primary teeth of infants and very, very young children. I've got to

tell you that it's a very sad scene when you have a young patient like this

coming in. I remember seeing them in my dental practice: a young patient coming

in with their completely rotten teeth and the impact that has on that child.

In B.C.,

ECC is a condition, it is estimated, that affects over 8,000 children, causing

pain and infection and adversely affecting their health, behaviour, mental and

physical development. In societal terms, ECC treatment draws on much-needed

hospital resources, adding to already-long waiting lists. You simply can't treat

these young patients in your dental chair. They have to be done under general

anaesthetic. In many cases hospital wait-lists are long. The patients' condition

deteriorates, since dental disease is progressive.

Financially,

the annual treatment costs to the private and public sectors combined are over

$10 million. Tragically, this condition is preventable. I know we've done a

wonderful job in dentistry in preventing dental disease, but there's still a

long way to go. There are still parts of our population that are more affected

than others.

The effect

of this disease results in pain, poor sleep and poor eating habits. It can be a

contributing factor in failure to thrive, in which children exhibit low weight

and height for their age.

[1050]

Another

condition, periodontal disease or gum disease, is a chronic infection caused by

bacteria that accumulate in plaque. Gum disease can be the leading cause of

tooth loss. I've already spoken about the complications to a compromised heart.

A national

study of Canadians, aged 39 to 69, found that those with periodontal disease had

between three and seven times the risk of fatal coronary heart disease.

Recently, I know that a cardiac surgeon recognized this, and he cancelled a

surgery until the patient's condition was improved.

Just as

children are very susceptible to dental disease, the elderly are affected by

their oral condition. Needs for dental care in the over-65-year-old group are

higher, particularly in institutionalized elderly. It's been estimated that

between 5 and 10 percent of community-dwelling elderly and 30 to 60 percent of

homebound and institutionalized elderly are malnourished.

Poor oral

health and tooth loss in the elderly result in the reduction in the ability to

chew and in marked changes in dietary preferences. Those with no natural teeth

have reduced intakes of fibre, protein, calcium and vitamin C. These reduced

intakes are associated with reduced biochemical markers of nutritional status.

Studies of

hospital and nursing home populations have indicated that poor oral health and

problems chewing are linked to low body mass index and involuntary weight loss.

In turn, these have been associated with increased morbidity and mortality.

Among

Canadians aged 18 years and over, 13 percent have problems chewing and 10

percent have problems with speech. One-third of those aged 65 and over cannot

chew a complete range of foods. For one in seven adults, poor oral health

impacts on psychological and social well-being. It detracts from the pleasure of

eating and affects communication, social relationships and other daily

activities.

We know how

important it is for people to be able to find jobs. I know we have a real

impetus by our caucus and this government to find jobs for those who haven't

worked for years and certainly that….

Thank you,

Mr. Speaker.

Hon. S.

Hawkins: I think my colleague the member for Kelowna–Lake Country makes a

very compelling statement and some really good arguments for why we

[ Page 3788 ]

should exercise preventative measures and look after our oral health.

I think

there's been a real renewed awareness in prevention and making healthy choices.

Certainly, the importance of oral health and its impact on general well-being

and overall physical health is underlined by the statements he makes.

I think in

the past it was almost inevitable that we experienced tooth decay or loss with

aging, for children to have dental decay and for oral cancers — cancers of the

mouth — to be a significant threat to all of us. Yet I think that with recent

advances in prevention and certainly with management of cavities and gum disease

— and I can't think of a better group that promotes prevention than the dental

surgeons; I can tell you they're right at the forefront of this — we have seen

this reverse in cavities and gum disease.

I think we

can all appreciate, as the member points out, that young children with early

cavities experience pain, difficulty eating and certainly sleeping with their

oral health being incapacitated. Cavities affect the development of secondary

teeth, and they also have an impact, as the member said, on a young child's

growth and ability to thrive. I understand that there is on average about 11

percent of kindergarten children in the province that have childhood cavities.

That seems to be an awfully high number to me. Hopefully again, with good oral

health and preventative measures, we can work on addressing that.

Certainly,

our public health dental hygienists and assistants in the health authorities

offer preventative oral health services throughout the province in order to help

reduce this incidence. They work primarily with new parents and young children

to help assist in establishing healthy behaviours. I understand that new parents

receive critical information like help on feeding practices to avoid

nursing-bottle tooth decay in early childhood activities. I think, again, that's

very important.

[1055]

addition, I understand that our dental staff have developed specific strategies

to help with those most at risk of dental disease. I know that in the Okanagan,

where my colleague and I hail from, dental public health staff screen for risky

oral health behaviours at preschool immunizations visits, and then they follow

up with families to help reduce the risk of dentally unhealthy behaviour. In

Vancouver we have programs that help meet the needs of new immigrants,

particularly those of Vietnamese and south Asian background. I know that these

culturally sensitive programs help to meet the needs of new immigrants, and they

certainly have been very good in improving dentally healthy feeding practice and

reducing the incidence of cavities in these young children.

Dental

health is important not only when we're young but also when we're old. As more

of us are keeping our teeth as we age, which is a good thing, we are seeing

concerns around cavities in our aging population as well. In adults, I guess the

one thing…. We are affected by periodontal disease, but more seriously and

rarely, we also have to think about oral cancers.

Certainly,

the risk of oral cancer can be prevented and reduced by quitting smoking, and

our province is recognized as a leader in our efforts to reduce the rate of

smoking. We have the best non-smoking rates in Canada, but they're not good

enough. We are working hard on tobacco strategies and smoking-cessation

strategies.

I think

it's important that government continue to work together with partners, with

health professionals in our communities, so that we can address the issue of

good oral health. We'll continue to do that, and we're certainly going to work

with the partners to make sure we facilitate innovation and find effective

approaches to keep our population in good oral health, especially in our groups

at risk, as the member rightly points out.

Weisbeck: I thank the minister for her comments. I spoke earlier about the

group of dentists in Kelowna who wanted to improve access to dental care for

some of the underprivileged people of our society. There is a Victoria solution.

I would

like to recognize that the Cool Aid Society had a report done for them in

November of 2001. The report was titled Towards a Downtown Community Dental

Clinic in Victoria . Some of the concluding remarks were: "A dental

clinic will not only significantly address people's immediate need for

treatment, but it will also begin the process of integrating oral health into

our communities. A clinic will offer more than treatment; it will offer

hope."

Well, the

clinic is now a reality, and their goal is to provide quality dental care,

particularly to those on social assistance and first nations people. We offer

reduced rates and payment plans to uninsured patients who otherwise could not

afford treatment.

This clinic

is funded by the Vancouver Island health authority and a fee for service. A nice

part about this, as well, is that like the offer from the dentists in Kelowna,

there are a number of local dentists who offer their services free of charge at

this clinic on certain days of the week. In September, for example, they had

four volunteer days by the local dentists. Here's a great bonus and a way to put

back something into their communities.

The cost of

dental disorders is huge. It is ranked third in terms of treatment costs after

cardiovascular diseases and mental disorders. It has a huge impact on our

society. There's some data here from the U.S. It states that in 1989, 2.7

million work days and one million school days were lost because of poor dental

health.

I commend,

firstly, the Cool Aid Society, and I thank the minister for her comments. Thank

you for this opportunity.

Orders of the Day

Mr.

Speaker: We move now to adjourned debate on second reading of Bill M204,

intituled The Hunting

[ Page 3789 ]

and Fishing Heritage Act. The debate was adjourned by the member for Prince

George North.

Second Reading of Bills

THE HUNTING

AND FISHING

HERITAGE ACT

(continued)

Bell: Certainly, the four months since we adjourned debate on this bill have

moved very, very quickly. I suppose, quite interestingly, much of the best

fishing season and certainly the early part of the hunting season have

transpired since we last sat in this House. Certainly, this bill speaks directly

to the ability of British Columbians to be assured the right to fish and hunt

within the province on an ongoing basis into the future.

[1100]

I'd like to

perhaps speak a little bit about some of my experiences with both fishing and

hunting, if I may. Certainly for my personal family it's been a tradition,

specifically on the fishing side and a little bit on the hunting side. Many of

the fondest memories that I have with my children, going back over the years,

are those of trips on various lakes over the northern part of the province,

whether it be Takla Lake or Tacheeda Lakes or Grizzly Lake or one of the many,

many lakes in the area. The look on a young child's face when he reels in that

first fish is something that just warms anyone's heart. Certainly, it has been a

tremendous family experience for me over the years.

We've

received a number of documents from different folks in my riding in support of

this bill. It's been quite interesting that this particular private member's

bill has come up on the horizon of many different groups. I can say quite

honestly that every letter I have received personally from various individuals

in my riding has been in support of this bill. I'd like to read one or perhaps

two of them into the record. This one came from the B.C. Trappers Association.

"On

behalf of the B.C. Trappers Association, please accept my sincere

congratulations on your support of hunting in B.C. and in your recognition

of the importance and legitimacy of wildlife use as an effective wildlife

management and conservation tool.

"The

trappers of B.C. fully support your initiative to have British Columbians

recognize in law that recreational hunting and fishing" — and I might

add that the writer adds that "and trapping" would be their

preference — "are valued parts of our provincial heritage and play an

important role in the conservation of fish and wildlife in this province.

"We

would be very pleased to play an active role in the advancement of a hunting

heritage bill and hope to learn of further developments in the near future.

"The

B.C. Trappers Association was formed in 1945 and represents the interests of

owners of registered trap lines in B.C., some 2,900 in number. We are

committed to management based on good science, sustainable harvests that are

humane and well-regulated, and communication and cooperation with related

industries and groups as well as government. Our trapper members are found

in every riding in B.C., rural and urban, and all will benefit from your

proposed bill."

That's from Michael Green, the general manager of the B.C. Trappers

Association, to Mr. Bennett, MLA for East Kootenay.

There has

been much support, as I indicated. I spoke at the B.C. Trappers Association

conference earlier this year. There were about 300 people at the conference. It

was quite an amazing group of folks that were out there. Interestingly enough,

they came from many different walks of life. They're not the kind of

stereotypical individuals that you would expect to be involved in trapping.

There were individuals there that were teachers, that were professors, that were

lawyers, that were doctors. It's quite a broad group of folks who are involved

in that particular industry. I believe that crosses borders into hunting and

more specifically fishing.

My view of

hunting and fishing is that they're part of the natural process in terms of

effectively managing species and populations of fish and wildlife. There are

statistics to clearly demonstrate that a well-managed herd or a well-managed

fish population can thrive, and hunting can be used as a useful tool to ensure

that the weak are culled from certain populations and that the strong survive. I

think there is a reasonable argument that suggests hunting can improve the

quality of any given population, whether it be fish or wildlife species. I think

this substantiates that game and fish are renewable resources and that we should

manage and utilize these resources on an ongoing basis.

I'd like to

speak briefly, if I can, about my particular failures in the fishing industry

and how they've significantly contributed to the economic well-being of this

particular province. This summer I decided that I would try fly fishing. I

thought that fly fishing would be a relatively inexpensive sport to participate

in. Little did I know that that is not the case.

[1105]

I made a

trip to my local fishing supply store and indicated that I would be travelling

to a lake, that I would like to catch some fish and that I had a fly rod, so all

I needed were a few flies. I asked the local store clerk to pick out a few

flies, and there was this large assortment of hand-tied flies that ranged from

99 cents to $2.99. I thought: what can the damage be here, really? Well, when I

walked out of the shop, I was short about $130 and most assured by the clerk

that I would come back with a cooler full of fish from my weekend of fishing.

In the

process, after purchasing licences and so on for another $70 or $80, we loaded

up the motor home, putting about $90 worth of fuel into it. We fuelled up the

boat for another $80 or so, filled up with the assorted beverages one might

anticipate taking on an annual fishing trip and various food stuffs and headed

out to the lake.

Well, it

was most certainly a wonderful weekend. All enjoyed it — beautiful scenery,

wonderful weather. Certainly a great time for the entire family was had, and in

fact several families, because there were a number of us that went.

[ Page 3790 ]

I'm sure

the weekend represented the better part of a $500 bill, and I'm pleased to tell

you that the fish are safe and well in that particular lake. There was only one

that managed to actually cotton on to one of our flies. Upon arriving in our

boat, we determined that he should best live his life on an ongoing basis, so we

returned him to the waters whence he came.

I hate to

say it, but the $500 did not result in a cooler full of fish. I think, really,

that demonstrates the economic benefit to society and to British Columbians —

and not just the internal benefit. I know for a fact that many of the folks that

come and fish and hunt in our most beautiful British Columbia do so from other

jurisdictions, whether it be from the United States, Europe or certainly from

throughout Canada. We most certainly appreciate the dollars that they leave

behind in our province. They are truly substantial.

You know,

I'd like to move on just for a moment, if I may, to really the nature of many

fishers and hunters. I believe they're viewed, perhaps incorrectly, by many

individuals as being not ones who are concerned about conservation. I believe

that it is exactly the opposite.

I attended

a review session for Kakwa Provincial Park and spent some time discussing the

park with an individual who characterizes himself as an avid hunter. It was

quite interesting speaking to this gentleman because he was perhaps the ultimate

conservationist, I would say. He truly believed in the importance of hunting in

terms of strengthening a herd, but he is very, very careful in terms of what

animal he might take from a herd. He spends days or perhaps weeks analyzing the

herd before making a decision in terms of which animal to take.

Well, I'm

afraid to say that my hunting experiences, typically, have not been so lucky.

I'm fortunate just simply to see something, let alone actually have the

opportunity to have a shot at it. This particular individual certainly

demonstrated to me the willingness of the hunting community to be very

supportive of conservationist techniques. I thought that was worthwhile

mentioning.

[J. Weisbeck in the chair.]

You know,

probably the best fishing experience I've spoken of…. A negative experience is

one where I came home empty-handed. I would like to speak briefly, if I may,

about a very good fishing experience that I had. That would be on Takla Lake

about eight or so years ago now. My family, in-laws and I travelled to Takla

Lake and rented a houseboat on the lake for three days. That truly was a fishing

experience worth remembering. Those were not the fish that got away. In fact,

they were the fish that did fill the cooler.

[1110]

Over a

period of three days I think we caught something in the order of — no, much

bigger than that, much bigger — 19 fish ranging from about three to about ten

pounds. You know, I have to tell you that my son, at the time, would have been

seven or eight years old. He still rubs in today the fact that he caught the

most and the biggest fish of all of the folks that were on the boat. I know, for

him, that will be a memory that he will carry forward in his life.

I would

encourage all members to think about that with their young families. I know

there are members in this House that have young families, and I know there are

members in this House that will be having young families shortly. I would

encourage all those folks to consider fishing as a family experience that they

can look back on in the future and truly have enjoyed.

One of the

other fishing experiences that I personally enjoy is that of the Nechako River.

Having entered this House about a year and a half ago, one finds that the

recreational opportunities or times are rather limited. As everyone knows, we

all put in significant numbers of hours on the job. I'm fortunate enough to

actually live on the Nechako River, and I can say that for all the stresses of

the job and all the efforts we put in on the job, it only takes me about ten

minutes in my hip waders with a fly rod to completely dismiss all the stresses

of this life that we collectively live in this House and certainly just become

one with the environment. I would suggest it's probably the most relaxing

experience that one can have — simply wandering down to the river and tossing

a few flies back and forth.

I hate to

report that yet again, I have come up empty-handed fishing in the Nechako River.

However, that said, it's been a very enjoyable and relaxing experience for me. I

have had the opportunity to see wildlife wandering up and down the river. I've

seen several bears across from my property, which tends to make one retreat

quite quickly from the river, but it's been certainly interesting.

The advent

of the barbless hook and catch and release over the last ten years or so has

become significant. Certainly, that's led further to what I referred to earlier

as the conservationist movement amongst hunters and fishers. I think that people

have moved towards the conservationist thought process. There's really nothing

more enjoyable than the good fight of a nice rainbow trout on the end of a fly

rod and then, once you've brought the fish in and it's arrived at your feet, to

be able to give that fish his life back, send him back into the water and have

him be there for someone else to catch another day.

Certainly,

over the years I've moved more and more to catch and release to the point now

where I would only keep the very odd fish and turn most of them back. Typically,

that has not been a problem because I don't catch very many fish.

Finally,

I'd like to wrap up with two comments, if I may. The first one is if we look

back to the history in this province, and you look back at the first nations

movement in this province, hunting and fishing were sources of sustenance and

remain so.

I have

three different first nations bands in my riding, and I know that at this

particular time of the year as we progress through September, October and into

early November, it's a critical time for the first nations groups to be out

collecting their winter harvest. That,

[ Page 3791 ]

in fact, is what they do. They harvest different animals from the herds and

utilize them for sustenance through the winter.

When you

review the treaty talks that we go through, fishing and hunting rights are

always high on the list of priorities for first nations in treaties. So I think

it's very suitable that this bill comes forward, because really what it does is

entrench the right of all British Columbians to fishing and hunting. That's what

first nations are doing when they are coming to the treaty table. They are

asking for the same right that the member for East Kootenay is suggesting we

should enable all British Columbians to have. I think it's most suitable.

[1115]

The last

comment I would make is there is a myth that there's a bit of a divide in the

urban-rural issue in hunting, and I don't believe that's the case. I can tell

you, for one who travels Highway 97 occasionally, that many, many times I've

seen trucks, pickups and various vehicles coming from the lower mainland into

the interior to pursue various hunting venues, particularly in the fall. I think

the notion that hunting is not something that's important to a citizen of the

lower mainland or the southern part of Vancouver Island is not accurate.

Certainly, there are some who would prefer that hunting doesn't take place, but

I think many, many folks in the urban areas of British Columbia do enjoy both

hunting and fishing and would like to see them carry forward.

To close,

I'd just like to congratulate the member for East Kootenay. I think he's done an

excellent job in drafting his bill, M204, and I certainly support the direction

of this bill.

Belsey: Before I get into the printed words I have here, I would just like

to tell my colleague from Prince George North that possibly it's the flies,

possibly it's the body of water he's fishing. But if he would like to come to

the North Coast, we could certainly solve his problem of no fish for his cooler.

I rise

today to speak in support of my colleague's bill, M204, The Hunting and Fishing

Heritage Act. The right to hunt and fish is an important part of our heritage.

Over history, since the dawn of man, we have been hunters and gatherers, so I

find it somewhat ironic that today we have to consider legislation to protect

hunting and fishing as we are in this heritage act.

The right

to hunt and fish is an important part of rural British Columbia. Among other

things, it is an important part of preparing for winter. It provides a way and a

means for rural British Columbians to preserve, can and freeze provisions for

those long winters that we enjoy. Some might challenge this as unnecessary,

pointing out that you can buy fish and meat at your local grocery store, and

this is true. However, the cost of fish and meat in those local grocery stores

outside metropolitan Vancouver and Victoria comes with a premium. Freight and

handling, etc., can add considerably to the cost of fresh fish and meat. Many of

the dedicated, hard-working people who live in rural British Columbia must have

this right protected.

There are

other benefits that this legislation will provide. A clear, protected hunting

and fishing heritage act will provide a better understanding of hunters' and

fishers' rights when they work with the animal rights activist groups. Both

groups working together understanding the rights that each organization has can

only benefit the fish and wildlife of this province. Together, these groups can

ensure that wildlife preservation continues so our children, grandchildren and

great-grandchildren will have the same opportunities we enjoy today when we hunt

and fish.

[1120]

I would

like to read a few letters that have been received supporting this legislation.

The first letter is from Michael Green. He's the general manager for the B.C.

Trappers Association. I'll read just part of the letter:

"The

trappers of B.C. fully support your initiative to have British Columbians

recognize in law that recreational hunting and fishing and trapping are

valued parts of our provincial heritage and play an important role in the

conservation of fish and wildlife in this province.

"We

would be very pleased to play an active role in the advancement of a hunting

heritage bill and hope to learn of further developments in the near future.

"The

B.C. Trappers Association was formed in 1945 and represents the interests of

owners and registered traplines in British Columbia — some 2,900 in

number. We are committed to management based on good science, sustainable

harvests that are humane and well-regulated, and communications and

cooperation with related industries and groups as well as government. Our

trapper members are found in every riding throughout British Columbia, rural

and urban, and we all would benefit from the proposed bill.

"Thank you.

"Michael Green

General Manager

B.C. Trappers Association."

I have a

second letter I would like to read. This was sent to the Premier of the province

and signed by R. Boswell, president of the B.C. Wildlife Federation.

"I'm

pleased to forward a copy of a recent Ontario provincial government news

release regarding the Ontario Heritage Hunting and Fishing Act. The B.C.

Wildlife Federation has voiced our strong support for this type of

legislation, as our previous letter to you has indicated. The attempts to

recognize the very issue that Ontario has now recognized were captured in

the private member's bill which Mr. Bill Bennett, MLA, put forward in the

last session of the Legislature.

"Hunters

and anglers of this province contribute close to $1 billion annually to the

economy of British Columbia. Licence fees alone paid directly to the

government by this group are in excess of $15 million, which does not

include the $1.5 million paid directly to the habitat conservation trust

fund for fish and wildlife enhancement work throughout the province. Nor

does this take into account the additional contribution they make to

conservation with the thousands of volunteer hours to provide a better

environment for the fish and wildlife of British Columbia.

"Mr.

Premier, it would be a small but welcome move on the part of your government

to institute legislation that recognizes the heritage of the hunter and the

anglers

[ Page 3792 ]

of British Columbia, considering their direct financial

contribution to the overall economy of the province. This contribution

should not go unrecognized. Your consideration in this matter would be

greatly appreciated by the 35,000 members of the B.C. Wildlife Federation.

"Yours in conservation,

B.C. Wildlife Federation

Mr. R. Boswell

President."

There are

many other jurisdictions that support the right to hunt and fish, as I mentioned

earlier, like those in Ontario. Another one that came to my attention just the

other day was when President Bush signed the right to hunt in Craters of the

Moon National Monument and Preserve in the United States. He has, by enshrining

the right to hunt, allowed hunting to continue in over 600,000 acres of land

that were set aside in Craters of the Moon National Monument and Preserve.

First

nations understand the importance of hunting and fishing. Virtually every first

nation in this province has made it very, very clear that they have the rights

to hunt and fish, and they do want them protected.

[1125]

Before

closing, let me say that I am not a hunter. I do not hunt. I'm probably not a

very good fisherman, but I do fish.

Interjections.

Belsey: I got some new bait.

I am a

great supporter of those that do hunt and fish. In closing, I want to make it

clear that The Hunting and Fishing Heritage Act is important to thousands of

people living outside metropolitan Vancouver and Victoria. It is important to

the sustainability of fish and wildlife in this province. It is important to

first nations. It is important enough that I will be supporting this bill.

Hawes: I, too, rise today to support this bill. Like others before me, I

would like to thank the member for East Kootenay for bringing this before the

House. I think this bill clearly, from the kind of correspondence I have

received, is very, very important to a lot of people in my own riding and right

across the province.

In looking

at what's put forward here, I note that Ontario and Nova Scotia have bills that

are almost identical. They have gone through the same kind of argument, and I'm

sure they have had the same kind of approaches by ardent fishermen and hunters

who feel that it is critically important for them to have the right to engage in

their pursuit, just as those that live in British Columbia do.

I, as the

others before me, have received a number of e-mails from constituents in my

riding. I'd like to just read a couple of those into the record. One of them

here says: "As a lifelong resident of British Columbia, an ardent angler

and a fair-chase hunter deeply involved as a caring conservationist, I would

like it known that I fully support this initiative by Bill Bennett and staunchly

believe all British Columbians should have the right to hunt and fish in

accordance with the law."

Similarly,

I have another one. This is addressed to the Premier.

"I'd

like to express my appreciation to MLA Bill Bennett for bringing forward a

move to declare hunting and fishing a heritage activity. I'd like to see

legislation similar to Ontario's right-to-hunt-and-fish legislation. Hunting

is a much maligned sport and a service as a wildlife tool.

"My

grandparents came to Canada when the century was young. They homesteaded in

the north Prairies, and the family had to hunt for sustenance to survive.

Hunters and fishers have lost ground to self-serving environmentalists —

suburbanites that do not understand the issues but insist on forcing their

uninformed morals anyway — and aboriginal issues. Now the ministry that we

depended on has had its budget slashed so badly that I do not know how they

can be effective. We need this kind of protection."

Another one

reads: "This is coming from someone who doesn't think much of

politicians" — gee, I wonder why — "but I would like to thank you

for your efforts in declaring hunting and fishing as our heritage. It takes guts

to take on all of the city slickers. All the best to you and your family….

Some politicians like you may change my mind."

The last

one I have here is actually from a fellow that was formerly a director of the

Fraser Valley regional district. I have worked with him for quite a number of

years. His is a very simple message: "If my MLA is not supportive of your

bill, I'd like to know so that I can speak with him." Well, Dick, you don't

have to speak with me. I am very supportive of this bill.

[1130]

A thread

runs through some of these pieces of correspondence, and that's the

urban-versus-rural dichotomy that many believe exists in this province. The

previous speaker from Prince George North said that he doesn't think there is

that kind of a split, but I do believe there is. It's at least a perception that

many in the rural parts of this province have that those who live in the urban

centres don't care about rural issues, that hunting and fishing are really rural

issues and that the urbanites are trying to somehow infringe on people's ability

to both hunt and fish. There's a suspicion by many in the rural parts of this

province that those who adopt the so-called environmentalist values really are

people who don't understand life in rural British Columbia and don't understand

the environmental positives that hunting and fishing provide. The truth is —

and it has been said in these e-mails — that hunters and fishers are the true

conservationists. They're the people who go out in the woods, the creeks and

streams in this province, and they understand the value of protecting the

environment so that they can continue to engage in their activity.

This summer

myself and a number of MLAs from the Fraser Valley had an opportunity to go up

the Fraser River by boat with the Minister of Sustainable Resource Management to

take a look at the state of gravel deposits in the Fraser River and the Harrison

River, at

[ Page 3793 ]

how badly those are being silted in. It's because some, I believe misguided,

environmentalists have created or caused a situation where gravel can no longer

be removed from the rivers, falsely believing that this would somehow protect

fish and create new spawning grounds. Instead, what's happening is that the

rivers are silting in so badly that they're not only not navigable, but side

channels of the rivers are silting in so that spawning fish can't get up them.

There are reports from many who live along the river near the side channels in

the Fraser Valley that fish are dying. The fry trying to return to the river get

trapped and can't get out, and they're dying by the thousands.

As we went

up the river, though, what we saw was salmon fishermen lined up shoulder to

shoulder — hundreds and hundreds of salmon fishermen and sport fishermen all

sharing the banks of the Fraser, all catching fish as they were on their

migration up to their spawning grounds. This was a record year for fish in this

province in the Fraser Valley. There were millions and millions of returning

sockeye, many more than the DFO ever predicted. It's very clear that the sport

fishery is not depleting fishing stocks. It's also very clear, as the previous

speaker from Prince George North mentioned, there is great economy in the

sport-fishing industry of this province.

I'm not a

hunter. I do enjoy fishing, although it does interfere with my first love. I

guess that's golf, when I have some recreation time. I do know, like the member

for Prince George North, the kind of money you spend when you want to go

fishing. Hunting, on the other hand, is even more expensive. The licensing cost

and the flows of funds to the government are substantial. These are people who

are true environmentalists, out in our forests and on our streams, I think,

looking after what is a natural gift to us. What they're doing is reporting when

there are problems. They're the ones who give us the reports of what's really

happening.

We took a

look at the Fraser River and saw the siltation. We saw the absolute degradation

that's being caused by nature in the river and is going completely unheeded by

those who are charged with looking after the environment. The disappointment is

something that you can't put into words — disappointment for anyone who lives

along the river at what's going on there.

[1135]

As we look

at this, at what the environmental movement is doing in this…. Certainly,

along the Fraser River, where I live, they are the ones who are causing the

problem — not the fishers, not the hunters. I think it's time to create an

understanding in this province that those who would engage in those activities

are actually helping us.

The

argument that has come before. I've heard many times from people: "Stop the

hunters; stop the fishermen; they're depleting our stocks, etc." This is

just false argument and should be discounted.

This bill

would create a right for people to hunt and fish, but the key word in the bill

is within the law — in accordance with the law. I can't imagine an argument

against this bill, but the satisfaction and the peace of mind this gives,

especially to those who live in the rural areas of this province, are

tremendous. I think we have a responsibility to ensure that peace of mind and

that right are bestowed on those who would engage in these activities.

In past

life I've lived in other parts of the province. I lived in the 1970s in Williams

Lake for several years. Following that, I lived in the Yukon, actually, where

hunting and fishing are a huge industry. I understand the value of hunting to

the economy of those areas, particularly in the far north, in both British

Columbia and the Yukon. Although this bill clearly doesn't cover the Yukon, it

would be similar in the northern parts of British Columbia, where big game

outfitters are creating an economy that is very, very buoyant. It's very

important to small communities throughout the northern part of the province and,

indeed, into the Yukon.

understand the kind of money that hunters bring into communities when they come

from outside, and I know what they spend when they enter a small community. They

buy the provisions, and they hire people to guide and to outfit them. These are

huge, huge economic drivers in small communities, but those drivers and the

ability of people to hunt is in some jeopardy. We have those who would line up

and try to stop them from doing so, claiming falsely that this is somehow

hurting the environment or that it's morally incorrect.

This is a

heritage in this province. Hunting and fishing have been part of our heritage

for many, many years, and this bill enshrines that heritage for all time for all

of those who would want to hunt and fish. I can't see any argument against this

bill. In fact, I think this does a great deal to restore a sense of togetherness

between the rural and the urban areas.

If there is

that dichotomy and if in some people's minds the perception, at least, exists, I

can think of no better way to correct some of that in some people's minds than

to see unanimous support for this bill. I certainly would hope that's what would

happen here. I know the member for East Kootenay has received literally hundreds

of e-mails from around this province and, I think, from around the country

congratulating him on bringing this forward. This is a touchstone issue for

thousands and thousands of people. Although there are many who neither hunt nor

fish and perhaps wouldn't really understand the importance or the relevance,

there are thousands who do.

In closing,

I just want to mention that by enshrining this as a right…. Certainly, I'm not

a lawyer, but I believe we create a situation where those who would illegally

impede someone from doing what is legally correct would have a little more

difficulty. The law would be clearer that if people are engaging in what is a

legal right, it becomes more difficult for anyone to try to stop them from doing

what is legally, in law, their right.

In fact,

today is a day where there are some who have said they're going to try to stop

the legal activities of this government and this Legislature by any means they

can. We live in a time when there are those who

[ Page 3794 ]

would break the law to try to impede the legal workings of government and

would disrespect law in order to get their way. I think this kind of activity

should be shunned by all those in this province who respect democracy and who

respect rights. This bill would, in my view, help speak to that. Support for

this bill, to me, is critical. I know it is going to be widely supported here in

the House just as it is outside the House by the people of this province.

[1140]

In closing,

I would like to thank the member for East Kootenay once again. I know there are

many of us here in the House who want to speak to this bill, because it does

reflect the views and the desires of our constituents.

Lekstrom: It's certainly a great day to be back in the Legislature and begin

the fall sitting and to be back with my colleagues and discussing the issues

that are important to all British Columbians.

I rise

today to support my colleague the MLA for East Kootenay in his presentation of

Bill M204, which is The Hunting and Fishing Heritage Act. It's very interesting

that I stand here, and certainly as a child growing up in the north, it was part

of my history with my family. It's a huge issue for British Columbians, not so

much on the issue of what hunters and anglers do, but on our culture and

heritage. We talk about first nations and having hunting and fishing as part of

their heritage and their right. I believe it's all of our rights in British

Columbia and certainly in our country, but I'll focus on British Columbia here

today.

The issue

of our ability to go out and hunt and fish in our great land, abiding by the

laws that are out there — and that is a key factor in this piece of

legislation that's presented — is vital not only to the hunter and the angler

but to our children. As a boy growing up, I went hunting with my dad and my

uncle often. We went out, and we got to enjoy the great outdoors. There's more

to hunting than just what many people think, than going out and catching a fish

or getting an elk or a moose or a deer or whatever you may be out for. It's

about growing bonds with your friends and family, sitting around at night out at

the camp having discussed your day. You can go many, many days, and many, many

hunters go many years going out into the great outdoors, enjoying their

experience and not taking an animal or not taking a fish. They're out there

because they love what they're doing.

The issue

that we face is one that's near and dear to myself, not because I'm from the

north, but because I'm a British Columbian and a Canadian, and I believe that

fundamentally we have the right to be able to access our great lands and go out

and hunt and fish. It's about learning to survive in a world that's a very

different place today than it was when I was a child — and I'm not that old; I

don't want to mislead you all. My hair may make you think that, but I'm not.

The quality

of time and the quality of life issue that hunting and angling bring to us…. I

know that many of you who probably aren't involved in going out to the outdoors

to fish and hunt may take that as somewhat of a strange statement, but I can

tell you that it builds relationships within your family. I can tell you there's

no greater time than sitting around out at a camp, out in the middle of the bush

somewhere with your friends, your father or your brother and, again, talking

about the day and what happened, what you accomplished, what you've seen. I can

tell you that it's overwhelming to sit around that campfire and talk about that,

and it leads to many other issues as well.

The issue

that we face here today is interesting, and I would like to read an e-mail I

received that was sent to the Premier from one of my constituents but copied to

me. If I could, I'll just read it and then comment on this e-mail that was sent.

It said:

"Dear Sir:

would like to commend Mr. Bennett for his private member's bill for

protecting the rights of anglers and hunters in British Columbia, although

to me, it is a shame that such a thing needs to be put on paper to be

recognized, even though it has been part of our history since the beginning

and continues strongly now. Nowadays, it seems that unless it is on paper,

sometimes it doesn't exist.

hope that you will support Mr. Bennett's bill, as thousands of anglers and

hunters from a large part of your constituency in British Columbia and

visitors that come from far away with their dollars in hand will be here

watching with extreme interest the outcome of this bill."

That was from Mr. Lloyd, who was a director of the B.C. Wildlife Federation

— a friend of mine and a man I know well. He's come to speak to me many times

on the issue of what it means to himself, to his family and also to all of the

residents I represent, not all of whom are avid hunters and fishermen. You know

what they do? They understand the beauty of the outdoors, and they understand

what the needs are and what this means to people who actually do go out and

enjoy the great outdoors.

[1145]

There are

many, I think, misconceptions from people out there about our hunters and

fishers when they go out into the wilderness and achieve what they're after. I

think that they think these people aren't great environmental stewards. These

people are friends of mine; they're family of mine. I've gone out myself on

many, many occasions.

I can tell

you that probably some of the greatest environmental stewards of the land that I

know of are both hunters and fishers. They know what it means to go out and look

after our province. They look after the great outdoors because of their love for

it — not because of their need for it but because of their love for it. That

makes all the difference in the world.

These are

people who, when they think of better ways to look after our land and look at

conservation issues, get involved. A good example is the habitat conservation

trust fund, which is funded through the attachment of fees to our licences by

the hunters, fishers, trappers and guiders. These are opportunities, when they

contribute to this fund, to go out and de-

[ Page 3795 ]

velop and work with the needs within our environment. They go out, and they

take on many, many projects not just in my local community but right around this

province.

As an MLA

from the north, I speak on behalf of my constituents, but I speak on behalf of

all British Columbians. As was mentioned by one of the earlier speakers, in the

territory that I represent, Peace River South, many, many people come from

around our province, around our country and around our continent to enjoy the

hunting activities that can be enjoyed in my area.

With that

comes the economic value as well. It is important, but it's not the most

important part of why I'm speaking to this bill. It's an added benefit from my

perception on that. The economic value that comes to our sporting shops in the

cities I represent and that comes to the guides and the outfitters out there who

make a living at this and the benefit for all of our economies in our

communities, particularly in rural British Columbia, is vitally important. This

is one more piece in diversifying our economies, one that has been around since

the beginning of time.

I will

stand here and tell you that I will support this bill wholeheartedly and do what

I can to make sure to bring an understanding — not debate with the people that

disagree, but bring an understanding — of what our hunting and fishing are

really all about in British Columbia.

These

people are leaders in conservation issues. As with many things we deal with,

we'll hear one bad story. There are bad stories in everything we do, and if we

want to focus on a negative issue, I'm sure we can make that negative issue

front and centre.

I'm here

today to focus on the positive issues of what it means, as I indicated earlier,

to our friends and family to get out and enjoy the beauty of our province and

enjoy the camaraderie — whether it be with their father, brother, family

member or friend — and what it's about to get out and really experience what

it takes to survive. We sometimes forget that.

There's a

whole culture out there that people enjoy. It's not my duty as the elected MLA

to dictate to somebody that I disagree. I don't enjoy that, so I don't expect

you should. I think it's my job to create a province that everybody loves, wants

to live in, wants to raise their family in, wants to do business in and wants to

enjoy.

All of us

work hard, whether you're an MLA, a small business owner or an individual

working for a small business out there in British Columbia. We work to make a

living to raise our families. We work so that we can enjoy our free time. Many,

many thousands of British Columbians enjoy their free time by heading out into

the great outdoors of British Columbia and enjoying the activities of hunting

and fishing.

A couple of

things I've touched on today are very important, and we go back. I've gone out

many times hunting. I'm not the greatest hunter. Many of my friends are much

better at it than I am, but I can't stress enough the feeling you get when

you're out there, the quietness of the forest at night when you're around. Many

times you sit there. You're somewhat scared if you're sitting up on a bluff.

You're waiting and waiting, and a bear walks out. We talk about bears quite a

bit in this. There's nothing more beautiful than watching a grizzly bear walk

out, although as scared as you are, and take its stroll through the meadow.

Depending on what you're doing, whether you're out there dealing with an elk

hunt or moose hunt, it's incredible.

[1150]

People will

argue that the numbers are dwindling as far as our wildlife. This is not a

factual statement. In fact, look at what I've touched upon, whether it be the

habitat conservation trust fund and the work that our hunters and fishers do or

our guides and our outfitters. These are the people that really are out there

taking the data in. They see it on a day-to-day basis, and they understand the

needs. These people are out there, and if they aren't working at the

conservation issues, their livelihood is at stake. They are the ones that truly

understand the needs of our wildlife and what it takes, and they pass the

valuable information that they gather on to the people who need it in order to

put the regulations together, in order to make the laws so that our land is

governed in an appropriate way.

I heard

just moments ago the talk of a possible rural-urban split. I'm here to tell you

today that the people I deal with in my constituency, wherever they come from

— whether it be from the lower mainland, whether it be from the interior of

our province when they come up…. That is not on their mind right now. What is

on their mind is enjoying our province and enjoying the camaraderie that comes.

Many people

have been out with their friends and family for the first time. They come back,

and you hear the tales of what they've experienced out there. As I indicated

earlier, many, many come back without an animal, and I can't stress enough that

it isn't the fact that you go out and you have to get an animal; it's the fact

that you go out and you have to enjoy the great outdoors.

I want to

go back just briefly and talk on the issue of our heritage and what this means.

This is really about a way of life. This is about the ability for many

people…. I talk about these many people because they're friends of mine. Many

of them I've grown up with all my life, and they actually make their living off

guiding, off trapping, and so on, and I learn a great deal. As a person that's

grown up in the north, many times people talk to you like you know all the

aspects of hunting and fishing and trapping and guiding. I can tell you that you

don't. You learn every day from your colleagues. I learn every day from my

friends that are involved in the industry.

The more I

talk to them, the greater understanding I have of their understanding of nature

and what it takes to grow our province. They understand that they're up against

many obstacles, many of which are non-factual, I would say. It's not because

people are malicious. You know, I'm being very optimistic here. I think they've

taken the wrong information, maybe misunderstood it and not followed through on

what

[ Page 3796 ]

really has to be done. I can tell you that the people I know, the people that

work in the industry, are true in their hearts to looking after our environment.

I've dealt

with many environmentalists, people that are out there to make sure we look

after our land — good people. I think I've said in this House before that

we're all environmentalists at heart. We know we have but one land to look

after. That land is what keeps us alive, and we're going to do that. I think

what each and every one of us has to be afraid of in this day and age is the

extreme element of the environmental movement — or any other movement, for

that matter. The extremists are the ones that I think can derail many, many good

initiatives.

I don't

mind discussing the issue — and in this case it's hunting and fishing and Bill

M204 — with my colleagues, with my friends. Some of them don't agree, but

they're respectful in their debate. They bring to the table a respect and an

understanding that their view is presented, as well as the opposing view, and at

the end of the day, people leave with an understanding of each other's needs.

That's really what democracy is all about, and that's what we're here to

represent on behalf of British Columbians. It's the right for people to have

differing views but at the end of the day have an understanding of what's right

and what's proper and what regulations and laws will work so that we can enjoy

our lives here in British Columbia.

In closing,

I just want to again state my thanks to my colleague the MLA for East Kootenay

for bringing this bill forward and presenting it not just on behalf his

constituents but on behalf of my constituents and all constituents of British

Columbia. I think it's a very, very valuable piece of legislation. I encourage

all my colleagues to discuss this, understand it and support it.

With that,

noting that my time is coming near a close, I'm going to thank you for the

opportunity to speak on this bill and again issue my undying support for Bill

M204.

[1155]

H. Long:

I rise today to speak to Bill M204 and to support the member for East

Kootenay. I'm going to have to be brief.

I don't

want to get into talking about the economic value of hunting and fishing in this

province, because we all know it's vast. But I do believe, being a flyer and

flying the province of British Columbia, just how vast this province really,

really is. It's absolutely unbelievable. In my riding alone, I have to fly over

wilderness for two and a half hours to get from one end of my riding to the

other, and it is well endowed with game of all types and descriptions.

Bennett: That's in a Beaver, though.

H. Long:

That's correct — in a Beaver.

I think the

biggest reason…. I'm going to go back a little bit to support the right of

hunting and fishing with this bill. It goes back to my family, where my mother's

family and my father's family lived in British Columbia, here in Powell River,

for over 80 years. At that time they harvested many animals for their

consumption, and it was an unwritten right. It was a right they had, and they

took it for granted. They took it for granted because it was their right to

hunt, to fish and to feed their families.

It's time

that we put this into a written law, something that people can count on in the

future, because sometimes it's very precarious that some people want to take

away the rights that people have had for the last 80 or 90 years. I think that

hunters and fishers should have that right in the future.

When we get

down to the sportsmen and the funding and the men and women that hunt — there

are as many women in the sports field now as there are men — you will find

that the moneys they provide through their licensing and so on actually do

provide the sustainable resource that we have today throughout the province. The

abundance of game is actually climbing in many areas of the province.

Plantations of elk in different areas, and so on, have even expanded the game.

There is a sustainable resource out there. There is game that we can all use and

take

part in, and I believe that to be the right of every British Columbian if

they so wish to take part.

I know that

the rod and guns and the people who are real conservationists that provide the

money for this are in tune with what's going on. They're the ones that are

sustainable in looking after stream reclamation, into salmon enhancement and

into game expansion. They provide the funds, and the people of British Columbia

should really thank them for doing this. They've been doing it now for probably

80 years here in British Columbia.

Noting the

time, I'm going to finalize my speech today in support of Bill M204 — that the

hunters and fishers who provide much of the needed funding to protect the

resources, to keep the balance between our communities and our wild

resources…. I do believe that in the future, Mr. Speaker, you will find that

when they pass this bill — I hope that it passes, and I hope that people have

the right to continue to hunt and fish within this country of ours, within

British Columbia and throughout Canada; I think that right should be expanded

throughout Canada as well — these people have the right to harvest their food,

be it fish or game, and to continue on with what I would call an organic food

source, if we so wish. They're not fed any kinds of steroids or anything in the

wild. I think we should have the right to an organic food source as well.

H. Long

moved adjournment of debate.

Motion

approved.

Hon. G.

Collins moved adjournment of the House.

Motion

approved.

The House

adjourned at 11:59 a.m.

[ Return to: Legislative Assembly Home Page ]

Copyright ©

2002: British Columbia Hansard Services, Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

ISSN: 1499-2175