role="main" class="main-container container js-quickedit-main-content" id="main-content">

November 19, 2015

41st Parliament, 1st Session

< Previous sitting day

Next sitting day >

Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2015-Nov-19 (PDF)

L122 - Thu 19 Nov 2015 / Jeu 19 nov 2015

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Thursday 19 November 2015 Jeudi 19 novembre 2015

Health Information Protection Act, 2015 / Loi de 2015 sur la protection des renseignements sur la santé

Introduction of Visitors

Transgender Day of Remembrance

Oral Questions

Privatization of public assets

Post-secondary education and skills training / Éducation postsecondaire et formation professionelle

Privatization of public assets

Privatization of public assets

By-election in Sudbury

Refugees

Affordable housing

Highway tolls

Privatization of public assets

Métis Nation

Health care funding / Financement des soins de santé

Environmental protection

Sexual violence and harassment

Probation and parole services

Poverty

Members’ Statements

Child protection

Theresa Farao

Hate crime

Tara cenotaph

Transgender Day of Remembrance

Polish Independence Day

Small business

Constituency office staff

Albanian Canadian Community Association

Reports by Committees

Standing Committee on Finance and Economic Affairs

Introduction of Bills

Albanian Heritage Month Act, 2015 / Loi de 2015 sur le Mois du patrimoine albanais

Petitions

Health care funding

Hospital funding

Ontario Retirement Pension Plan

Ontario Retirement Pension Plan

Privatization of public assets

Water fluoridation

Health care funding

Lung health

Health care funding

Lyme disease

Mail delivery

Health care funding

Private Members’ Public Business

Children’s Law Reform Amendment Act (Relationship with Grandparents), 2015 / Loi de 2015 modifiant la Loi portant réforme du droit de l’enfance (relation avec les grands-parents)

Pregnancy and Infant Loss Awareness, Research and Care Act, 2015 / Loi de 2015 sur la sensibilisation au deuil périnatal, la recherche sur ce genre de deuil et l’aide aux personnes vivant un tel deuil

Children’s Law Reform Amendment Act (Relationship with Grandparents), 2015 / Loi de 2015 modifiant la Loi portant réforme du droit de l’enfance (relation avec les grands-parents)

Pregnancy and Infant Loss Awareness, Research and Care Act, 2015 / Loi de 2015 sur la sensibilisation au deuil périnatal, la recherche sur ce genre de deuil et l’aide aux personnes vivant un tel deuil

Orders of the Day

Ending Coal for Cleaner Air Act, 2015 / Loi de 2015 sur l’abandon du charbon pour un air plus propre

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Good morning. Please join me in prayer.

Prayers.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

Health Information Protection Act, 2015 / Loi de 2015 sur la protection des renseignements sur la santé

Mr. Hoskins moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill 119,

An Act to amend the Personal Health Information Protection Act, 2004, to make certain related amendments and to repeal and replace the Quality of Care Information Protection Act, 2004 / Projet de loi 119, Loi visant à modifier la Loi de 2004 sur la protection des renseignements personnels sur la santé, à apporter certaines modifications connexes et à abroger et à remplacer la Loi de 2004 sur la protection des renseignements sur la qualité des soins.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Minister Hoskins.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I’ll be sharing my time with my parliamentary assistant, the member from Ottawa South.

I’m pleased to rise today to speak to the second reading of the Health Information Protection Act, 2015, which includes amendments to existing legislation that protects the personal health information of Ontarians. This action, which follows up on a commitment that I made in June, aims to create stronger and more comprehensive protection of health information privacy; a renewed provincial eHealth privacy framework; greater accountability and transparency in the health care system about privacy breaches; as well as improved patient care and patient safety. It’s one more way that our government is putting patients first.

Together, these legislative amendments would require and reinforce Ontario’s position as a leader in the protection of health information privacy. These legislative amendments are needed to ensure that the personal health information of patients receives the highest form of privacy protection.

These amendments would also update our health information privacy rules into the 21st century, where health records are now electronic and not locked away so easily, in a filing cabinet, as they once were.

Mr. Speaker, if passed, our bill would increase accountability and transparency by making it mandatory for health care providers to report certain privacy breaches to the Information and Privacy Commissioner, and to relevant regulatory colleges under certain circumstances.

Patients across Ontario deserve to know that their personal health information is being protected. My expectation for all health providers who hold personal information about their patients is that they will go above and beyond to ensure that patients’ privacy is being respected. By mandating that certain privacy breaches be reported to the Information and Privacy Commissioner and to regulatory colleges, the individual health care provider, and indeed the whole system, will be able to benefit from the IPC’s review and recommendations for avoiding future breaches.

As for the prosecution of PHIPA offences, we are removing a serious barrier to such prosecutions. Currently, there is a six-month limitation period from when a breach is alleged to have occurred to when a prosecution must commence. This has often left very little time to conduct a proper investigation. We are proposing an amendment that, if passed, will remove that six-month limitation period, which will give us more time to investigate the circumstances surrounding privacy breaches that could lead to successful prosecutions.

In addition, we intend to align PHIPA with other provincial offence statutes to require the Attorney General’s consent to the commencement of a PHIPA prosecution rather than requiring the Attorney General to actually start the prosecution herself. To further reduce the occurrence of privacy offences in the first place, we propose to double the maximum fines for PHIPA convictions from $50,000 to $100,000 for individuals and from $250,000 to $500,000 for organizations.

We’re also proposing to reintroduce privacy protection for electronic health records, as first proposed in 2013—changes that were and are supported by the Information and Privacy Commissioner.

Finally, the proposed amendments, if passed, would enable appropriate sharing of patients’ drug prescriptions by the ministry with health care providers to protect patient safety and support more informed care decisions. Keeping this province at the forefront of patient privacy protection is understandably what Ontarians expect and deserve.

The second important piece to our legislation is that we’re proposing to replace the Quality of Care Information Protection Act, 2004, with a new act of the same name.

One side of this legislation is protecting the patients’ right to privacy, as I’ve just outlined. The flip side is ensuring transparency within the health care system itself, because information should be appropriately shared with the people who matter most: the patients. It’s important that health care providers are able to review information for quality improvement purposes following a critical incident, but this should be done in a manner that also respects the rights of patients and their families to know about critical incidents in hospitals and other health care settings.

The existing Quality of Care Information Protection Act, or QCIPA, was enacted to provide health care workers an opportunity to share information candidly regarding a critical incident and to promote continuous quality improvement. The act ensures that opinions, speculation and information specifically prepared for discussions about quality improvement, which may include information from investigating critical incidents—that that information and those preparations are protected from disclosure in legal proceedings and from most other disclosures.

Unfortunately, however, there was confusion as to what must be disclosed to the patient following a critical incident review, and when and how providers should apply to QCIPA in such circumstances. There was a lack of clarity among some health care organizations about how to use QCIPA effectively, as well as a greater need to share experiences and lessons learned about quality improvement opportunities across organizations across this province.

To better understand the concerns about QCIPA, I convened a QCIPA Review Committee and committed to implement all of their recommendations. All recommendations were intended to help ensure consistent, high-quality, safe and patient-centred care.

The new QCIPA, if passed, would maintain the existing quality improvement framework but would also provide greater clarity and help encourage better communication with and engagement of patients during the investigation of a critical incident.

The default in our health care system with respect to critical incidents should be disclosure to the affected patient and their family of all the essential information about the incident, including the facts of what occurred; the causes, where known; and the specific remedial steps that will be taken. Our proposed amendments to QCIPA will help to make it clear that QCIPA can never be a barrier to such disclosures.

So, if passed, the amended legislation would clarify the purpose of QCIPA and reaffirm the right of patients to access information about their health care. It would clarify that certain information about facts and critical incidents cannot be shielded from affected patients and their authorized representatives. It would allow the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care to make regulations that would require health care organizations to adopt a uniform approach when using QCIPA to review critical incidents.

It would clarify that QCIPA does not interfere with health care facilities’ legal obligations to disclose information required by law or to interview patients involved in a critical incident as part of an investigation. And, finally, it would require that the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care would review the act every five years.

Mr. Speaker, this very important piece of legislation, if passed, will support people and patients, providing more security and protection of their personal health information, as well as ensuring the transparency and access to information that they deserve to make the right decisions about their health care. So I call on all members to support our proposed legislative amendments.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member for Ottawa South.

M. John Fraser: Comme le ministre Hoskins vient de décrire, le passage de la loi en débat aujourd’hui modifierait la législation existante pour protéger les renseignements de santé personnels des patients, tout en augmentant la transparence et en maintenant une haute qualité de soins dans le système de santé de l’Ontario.

Lorsque le ministre parle de la priorisation des patients, c’est exactement ce qu’accomplit cette législation. Nous comprenons que les Ontariens exigent que leurs renseignements de santé personnels demeurent confidentiels. En même temps, nous comprenons que les Ontariens veulent que leur gouvernement soit transparent et s’engage à fournir des services de santé de haute qualité. Ce projet de loi améliorera nos efforts pour fournir le type de services que les Ontariens attendent.

As Minister Hoskins has just outlined, the passage of this legislation under debate today would amend the existing legislation to protect the personal health information of patients while also increasing the transparency and maintaining the quality of Ontario’s health care system. When the minister talks about putting patients first, that is exactly what this legislation does.

We understand that Ontarians expect their personal health information will remain confidential; at the same time, we understand that Ontarians also expect their government to be transparent and committed to providing quality health care services. This legislation will help strengthen our efforts to deliver the kind of services that Ontarians expect.

Let me begin by speaking to the matter of protecting patient privacy. The Health Information Protection Act would amend the Personal Health Information Protection Act, 2004, and several other pieces of supporting legislation to strengthen the privacy rules that protect the personal health information of individuals. These amendments, if passed, would make it mandatory to report certain privacy breaches to the Information and Privacy Commissioner and to the breacher’s relevant regulatory colleges.

This legislation would also strengthen the process to prosecute PHIPA offences by removing the requirement that prosecutions must be commenced within six months of when the alleged offence occurred. Speaker, Ontarians want to know that, should there be a breach of their personal and private health information, the province will take action. These proposed amendments effectively give the government the tools to better protect patient privacy.

I would note that the Information and Privacy Commissioner was instrumental in the development of these amendments and fully supports this legislative change to strengthen privacy protection and improve Ontario’s ability to pursue prosecutions. In fact, the commissioner has stated that he is strongly in favour of the mandatory reporting of privacy breaches.

I know that many hospitals and other health care providers already voluntarily and proactively contact the commissioner’s office when they discover that a privacy breach has taken place in their organization. I thank them for their dedication to protecting patient privacy. They recognize how serious this matter is, and that is a strong signal that we are on the right track with this legislation.

Reporting is an important first step, but we need to take a step further to ensure that anyone considering misusing someone’s personal health information really thinks twice about it. That is why this legislation calls for the doubling of maximum fines for privacy convictions from $50,000 to $100,000 for an individual and from $250,000 to $500,000 for an organization. This would serve as a deterrent for anyone who is thinking of breaching, collecting, misusing or disclosing someone’s private health information for their own purposes.

Another key aspect of this legislation is that it reintroduces and updates the electronic health record privacy framework that was introduced in the Electronic Personal Health Information Protection Act, 2013. Most Ontarians who receive health services have some form of electronic medical record, and there are many different types of medical records, whether it’s diagnostic imaging, immunization records or a document regarding hospital care.

Cette loi va établir les fondations pour que les fournisseurs de soins de santé puissent partager des dossiers de santé d’une manière sûre et sécuritaire, et voilà ce que les patients veulent savoir : que leurs dossiers soient confidentiels.

What this legislation does is build a strong foundation for enabling records to be shared among health care providers in a safe and secure fashion, and that’s what the patients want to know: that their records are safe. This legislation also includes a provision that will allow the ministry to monitor information about a patient’s narcotics and monitored drug prescriptions to their health care provider.

Speaker, I have spoken at length about the steps this legislation takes to protect a patient’s private health information. That is just one aspect in this legislation. The Health Information Protection Act would also make great strides in improving transparency and patient safety in Ontario’s health care system. In September 2014, our government convened a committee of health care experts to advise the government on ways to improve the Quality of Care Information Protection Act, 2004—QCIPA—and health care legislation relating to critical incidents.

The committee undertook extensive research and interviewed more than 60 health care professionals, patients and their family members who had experienced unintended or serious errors or accidents that caused them harm, as well as other service quality issues in hospitals. Their findings were presented in the QCIPA committee recommendations, and I’m pleased to say that the government is implementing all of the committee’s recommendations. One of the ways we are addressing these recommendations is through this legislation right now.

Through the Health Information Protection Act, our government would replace QCIPA with a new act of the same name that will clarify the purpose and appropriate application of this legislation. It would reaffirm the rights of patients to access information about their own health care. It would spell out for everyone what information and facts about these critical incidents must be transparent and shared with affected patients and their authorized representatives.

Our amendments, if passed, would clarify that QCIPA does not interfere with the right of patients and their authorized representatives to access information related to critical incidents that have occurred. This legislation would make it clear that QCIPA cannot be misused to shield from patients and their authorized representatives information about what happened, what it means for the patient and what steps the hospital is taking to prevent similar incidents from happening again. This is the kind of transparency that patients expect in their health care system.

We also want to be clear to the health care sector what we expect of them. To make sure that this happens, the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care will be working along with the Ontario Hospital Association and Health Quality Ontario to develop training and guidance for health care facilities and professions on the issue of critical incident review and disclosure. This would help ensure that appropriate disclosure is applied more consistently in health care facilities across the province.

This legislation, if passed, will ensure we are seeing the progress that Ontarians expect with regard to transparency and disclosure by requiring that the minister review the act every five years.

We want to ensure that patients know that when a critical incident is under review, it is being done to the same high standards that they expect, regardless of where they live or which facility the incident may have occurred at.

Our government has made a commitment to the people of Ontario through our renewed action plan for health care that we would put patients first.

J’ai beaucoup parlé aujourd’hui de ce que les Ontariens attendent de leur système de soins de santé. Ils veulent savoir que leurs renseignements personnels de santé demeurent protégés et sécuritaires. Ils veulent savoir qu’ils peuvent obtenir les informations dont ils ont besoin au sujet de leur propre santé lorsqu’ils en ont besoin. Voilà pourquoi ce projet de loi est si important.

I’ve spoken a great deal today about what Ontarians expect of their health care system. They want to know that their personal health information remains safe and secure, and they want to know that they can get the information they need about their own health care when they need it. That is why this proposed legislation is so important.

If passed, these amendments would help keep Ontario at the forefront of protecting privacy of health records and would ensure that patients and their families will be kept informed and have their voices heard when an investigation is required as a result of a critical incident. That’s what patients want.

J’encourage tous les membres à appuyer notre législation.

Mr. Speaker, I encourage all members to support our legislation.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Ted Arnott: I’m very pleased to have this opportunity to respond to the Minister of Health and the member for Ottawa South, who led off the debate on this health care bill.

I noted that in their presentations neither one of them mentioned the word “eHealth,” which is, of course, what comes to mind on this side of the House when the government starts talking about electronic health records. I know the minister was not in the Legislature during the eHealth scandal but I’m sure he’s well aware of the fact that the Auditor General found that the government had spent over $1 billion on the creation of this health record system.

The Auditor General was highly critical and indicated that Liberal-friendly consultants received many contracts that were untendered; and, in fact, there was very little—there was some value in the work that was done, but not $1 billion worth of value, clearly, Mr. Speaker. I think the government will need to be reminded of that and be assured that the opposition won’t let them forget it.

I also would express to the minister my personal appreciation for his interest in our Groves Memorial Community Hospital project, which we discussed earlier this week in a private conversation. Again, we very much appreciate the government’s commitment to proceed with a new hospital in Centre Wellington, the Groves Memorial Community Hospital. It’s an issue that I’ve been raising in the Legislature for many, many years on behalf of the community, working with community partners. I know that the government and Infrastructure Ontario recently issued a request for qualifications, an RFQ.

We’re pleased that that further step has been taken. We know that the government is allowing us to disclose the time frame. We hope to have occupancy in the new hospital by the fall of 2019, with the construction phase being 2017 to 2019.

I also want to point out that the Georgetown Hospital Foundation is having a donor appreciation night tonight, and I hope to make it. They have moved forward with a magnificent new addition and expansion of their hospital emergency department and CT scanner. We’re very proud of the work that’s done in the Georgetown hospital as well. I look forward to supporting them in any way I can too.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

M me France Gélinas: I and all of my NDP caucus are very pleased that this bill has been brought forward. I will tell you that it is high time that this bill be forward. We all know that there have been some—what I would label—catastrophic breaches of patient confidentiality, where their hospital records were accessed hundreds of times by people who had nothing to do with their circle of care. The minister was right that protection in the old days was a physical chart, and that physical chart was kept under lock and key; and when the room was open, there were staff there who protected those charts so that a chart was only made available to the person who was part—

Ms. Cindy Forster: Not always.

M me France Gélinas: Not always. It should have—most of the time. There were breaches in the old times too, when we had paper charts; don’t get me wrong. But now we have more and more moved toward an electronic health record, which means that the physical checks of the eyes and keys are not there anymore. Although we’d like to think that the system has evolved in a way that allowed us to restrict access, it is more a wish than a reality. So it falls upon the people who have access to be held accountable, to make sure they only use that privilege when it is for the patient’s well-being.

This is a difficult dance to follow each and every day of your career when you work in health care. I’m not sure we have it right the way it is put there, but we certainly have a good platform to work from, Speaker. I will make more remarks about this soon.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Hon. Ted McMeekin: I’m pleased the minister has brought this bill forward. It’s a good piece of progressive evolution. There is a concern that has existed in the past, but rather than waste time looking back—nothing more useless than that—he is moving forward, and he’s doing so in a way that’s going to benefit patients and protect their rights.

I have always thought that the people who really get on well in this world are the people who get up, look at the circumstances that are there and, if they’re not in keeping with what he or she thinks they ought to be, takes the steps to change them. That’s exactly what has happened and is happening here. As the member opposite said, it is an issue of balance and consistent improvement. We need to be always looking at legislation to see how we can improve it.

I have a sense, listening to the minister and those who have offered their two-minute comments, that confidence in the health care system really comes when you have the certain knowledge, Mr. Speaker, that the legislation that’s being passed is protecting your rights, is protecting your privacy, is protecting your ability to appropriately seek redress if that doesn’t happen.

So I’m pleased with the legislation. It makes sense to move forward in this way; and it will continue, as one of the honourable members said, to be shaped in the future as we, together, ascertain, as the good minister has currently, improvements that will better protect the health care privacy of individual patients and restore and keep their confidence.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mrs. Julia Munro: When I hear about a new attempt to create an electronic record, it raises in my mind a certain spectre of government inability to do it the first time. I’m assuming that we’re looking at new and improved but I think with a certain amount of skepticism, because they’re difficult issues to balance: on the one side, the respect of privacy; and on the other side, the need to know. When we look at this bill, we’re looking for that maintenance of balance, and the importance of being able to secure the medical records.

There have been some egregious examples of people looking into the medical records of other people. I know that on an individual basis, there are issues around health records and things like that, that people are very sensitive about. They’re concerned about how many people have the access to that.

It can boil down to something as simple as sitting in an emergency room, and they call out your last name as well as your first. Nobody else should know that you’re sitting in the emergency room but you and the hospital staff.

I think it’s a much more complicated issue than it might at first appear. We’ll be watching carefully as this bill carries through the process.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): I now return to the member for Ottawa South. You have two minutes.

Mr. John Fraser: It’s a pleasure to respond to the member from Wellington–Halton Hills, the member for Nickel Belt, the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing, and the member from York–Simcoe.

I just want to say that I’m pleased to hear the understanding of and the need for support for this legislation. My son James works in a hospital’s medical records department. There are still paper records. Whenever I drop by to see him, there are literally rooms and rooms of paper records.

But now that all that stuff can be in a box this big, or a laptop, or something I’m not supposed to pick up—no props—that means there’s some risk there, so that means we have to take greater measures to make sure we protect that information. This legislation does that. I think that’s what Ontarians expect. They want to have confidence that the confidence they put into their health care providers is going to be kept. There are a lot of implications. This legislation is timely.

As far as the critical incident review, I think we can all agree, all members in this Legislature—and the member from Wellington–Halton Hills said very clearly how important his hospital was to him—on how important our hospitals are to our community and the people who live in it.

The next most important thing is that the people who have the services of those hospitals have the confidence in them, have the confidence that if something goes wrong—if there’s an error, if there’s a mistake—that there is transparency and clarity in the measures that have to be taken in order to disclose that incident, in order to provide information to those people affected, and also to move forward in a way that those kinds of incidents will never happen again.

I look forward to the debate. I thank all the members for their very thoughtful comments. I congratulate the minister on putting this legislation forward. Again, as I said, I think it’s timely, and I think it’s an important debate right now.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Thank you all. Further debate?

Mrs. Gila Martow: Mr. Speaker, I believe you will find we have unanimous consent to stand down our lead.

I’m sorry, I’m a bit hoarse.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): The member from Thornhill has requested that her party stand down their lead. Do we have agreement? Agreed.

Further debate?

Mrs. Gila Martow: I’ve spoken in the House before about the fact that I’m an optometrist, and I worked in a clinic where it was one of my jobs—I’ll tell you, it was actually a part-time job for me. I couldn’t see as many patients for about six months because we were implementing electronic health records, and it was extremely stressful.

I know the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care understands himself, sort of, the aspect of patients’ privacy in terms of the patients themselves. It used to be that you would be seeing one patient, and an assistant or staff person might come in with a chart and a question from another patient. You would discreetly try to look, so that the patient in the room wouldn’t see what was in that patient’s chart. Now we have big monitors in the room sometimes, and there’s a patient in the chair. When I worked as an optometrist, I was always moving the monitor.

It’s as my colleague just said about an emergency room calling out a patient’s name: Even these things are fundamental breaches of privacy. We have to focus on the need for good-quality health care. That’s what we want to ensure. It is a balancing act, as she said. We want to make sure that the people in Ontario know that they are protected by their health care system. Of course, it has to be accountable, transparent and private, but we also have to ensure that we’re not focusing on the technological gadgets all the time and we’re not keeping up to date with new technologies.

The fact is that a lot of these new technologies require computerization. As we’re developing electronic health care records, we have to keep in mind that the technology is moving so quickly that we have to almost anticipate: What’s the next level of hardware and software and medical treatments that we need to constantly communicate with?

In our office, it wasn’t just a matter of putting in electronic health records; it was a matter of having software between diagnostic tests to talk to the actual equipment of the electronic health care record. That was complicated and expensive, to the point that we were paying for, and continue to pay in this clinic, upkeep—software support, it’s called—of three different companies because they are all interacting and talking to each other. You can see, for security issues, how complicated that is.

I would say that it’s very similar to the banking system, where people now—who anticipated two years ago that you would be able to take a picture of a cheque with your smartphone and have it deposited in your bank account?

With all these new technologies, yes, it simplifies life. As the member whose son works in medical records in a hospital just said, it’s actually saving space, and space is very valuable because hospitals pay for the space to store all those records and pay for staff to file those records and to retrieve those records and search around for those records. One of the best parts of electronic health care records is the fact that when you have a paper chart, only one person, only one health care professional, can be looking at that chart at that time.

Now with electronic health care records, multiple people can be looking at the same chart at the same time in different aspects. A patient could be having an appointment in one part of a hospital for a test, but another clinician or staff person needs to access that record for another purpose.

Right now, though, we have a fairly fragmented health care system. I think that—and I’ve said it before so I apologize if I’m repeating myself—we’ve all known, in the health care profession, that Alberta—Alberta Netcare they call it—has a fantastic e-health care system. All we had to do was go to Alberta, our friends, and say, “You have a very similar health care system for the province”—the delivery system is very similar, with a very similar mandate. I can’t imagine why we couldn’t have at least made the effort.

I’ve never received an answer, not that I asked formally in writing, but I’ve never really received an answer from this government on why we didn’t just call up our colleagues in Alberta and say, “You have this real state-of-the-art system. You’ve worked out all the bugs.” The physicians are all integrated into the system; the hospitals are integrated; the diagnostic testing centres are integrated. Everybody is saying that it took a few years to really work those bugs out and get it working, but what would it cost us to implement it?

Obviously, it wouldn’t have cost us as much as it cost Alberta to set up the whole e-health, and it certainly wouldn’t have cost us as much as we spent on our eHealth, which never achieved its goals.

It’s a double shame because we can’t just say, “We tried,” when there was an e-health care system in Alberta that we could have borrowed, rented, purchased. We could have even paid the Alberta specialists to come and implement it and train our specialists. So I found it very heartbreaking on a personal level because of the colleagues I would see at conferences from Alberta and they would talk about the complications. Many of them said they had already purchased e-health care systems for their office that they had to basically throw in the garbage and start over again, and they weren’t complaining.

Even though they had to spend that $50,000 or $100,000 to implement the electronic health care records, they were not complaining because the new system was working so well.

In 2014, there were 439 cases reported to the Information and Privacy Commissioner’s office. What’s interesting is that, since reporting isn’t currently mandatory and this bill is going to address that, which is obviously very necessary, we don’t really know what that number is if it’s not mandatory. We all know that people don’t tend to report things unless they know they have to. That is human nature. It’s also human nature, even though it’s professionals in hospitals, to try to access a celebrity.

Rob Ford was a politician, but he was also a celebrity, and three hospitals had breaches of his electronic health care records because people were snooping. You could see why people are snooping: sometimes just to gossip to their friends or for their own information, but they could also be selling information to the media.

Just like I said about banking, we have to ensure—it’s not enough that physicians are perhaps having electronic health care records on a laptop which they take to a conference and might be stolen. Just a few years ago, we read in the newspaper of electronic health care records that disappeared—being stolen from cars or being lost—just from laptops that weren’t encrypted.

It begs to mind the question that physicians, who obviously have to have a very high level of intelligence to be physicians, wouldn’t understand the dire consequences of carrying around all their patients’ records on their laptops and not even have a password to get into it, the most basic. But we all know that if somebody really wanted to get through a password on a laptop, they could do it. There are enough talented people.

If people can break into banking systems and things like that, we know that there’s nothing foolproof, but we can do our best to ensure that patients’ records are protected as much as possible.

I reached out to the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario, and they said that they are looking forward to better protection of patients’ privacies, but they mentioned a few concerns, mostly about clarifying the reporting obligations and the new provisions of how to report privacy breaches. They suggest that the language be made consistent with the mandatory provisions in the Health Professions Procedural Code. That’s what has to be looked at whenever we do new legislation: How does it interact with previous rules and regulations not just of the government but also of all the colleges that are affected, and hospital protocol? We understand how complicated that can be, Mr. Speaker.

In last month’s Ontario Medical Review, which I’m sure the minister receives from the OMA, there was an

article about Bill 119, basically summarizing for their membership, and they mentioned something that I haven’t heard mentioned yet today, which is that they expect the bill to have an opt-out system. That’s kind of like negative billing, which means that patients are automatically in the system unless they ask to opt out. Again, it sometimes comes down to individual rights and freedoms versus the collective and the needs of the community.

We see that with vaccines, all the discussion of vaccines now. People feel that, ideally, their child shouldn’t have to be vaccinated but everybody else’s child should be, and then their child doesn’t really need to be vaccinated, and we can understand that. But if we want to use the information from health care records for studies to see if there are side effects from certain medications, we all understand that the incredible ability of computerization is that you can do searches and say, “Do a search of all the health care records of everybody on this medication who has this symptom,” and it’s very possible that things could come up.

There is also the aspect that patients sometimes go to multiple doctors, and one doctor doesn’t know that the patient is seeing another doctor. They go to multiple pharmacies and they might have medications that they don’t want one doctor to know about, other medications. That creates problems for the doctors. Ultimately, the doctors are responsible for the health care of the patients, and it puts them in a tough bind sometimes, because if they don’t have all the information in front of them, how can they possibly make informed decisions about their patients?

I’m just looking here, again, at the incredible system that Alberta has, and wondering why we’re not doing more than just protecting the privacy of patients. Why aren’t we finally addressing the fact that Ontario does not have a state-of-the-art electronic health care record system? EHealth spent over $1 billion. Actually, for years, we heard that, yes, the eHealth part of it wasn’t implemented but there was going to be a registry of diabetic patients in the province, and we were going to be able to do great research and information exchange. Even that didn’t get done.

It’s not enough to say, as one of the ministers stated, that what’s in the past is in the past. That’s not good enough, Mr. Speaker. As the government, even in opposition, it’s our responsibility to ensure that the taxpayers’ money is used wisely and used for the purpose for which it was intended. It was intended that patients would have not just electronic health care records in their physician’s office, not just electronic health care records in a hospital, but that all of the different systems were going to be able to interact. They do not interact right now.

Interestingly enough, I’ve gotten a few calls in the last couple of weeks from physicians who say that they have stopped receiving the government payments to cover the portion of their investment for electronic health care records. I haven’t had the opportunity, but maybe now it’s an opportunity for me to ask the health care minister what’s happening with compensation for physicians, for private clinics.

One physician I spoke to just this past week said that two of the specialists, who work predominantly at SickKids, who come to his pediatric clinic in Richmond Hill only work one day a week—sometimes one day every two weeks. One is an allergist, and I think one might be a rheumatologist—a pediatric allergist and a pediatric rheumatologist. They say, “Well, if we’re not receiving that $300 or $400 a month to cover our share of your electronic health care records, we just want to go back to paper records.”

What I said to this physician is—

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Oh, come on.

Mrs. Gila Martow: Exactly. I said, “Come on. They’re not going to really want to have paper charts in your office. I’m sure that you could give them a piece of paper.”

Luckily enough, a lot of paper does still go through medical offices, but what happens to it is that it gets scanned and uploaded as an attachment to the electronic health care record. Yes, we can’t say that these offices are paperless, because referrals are coming in through the fax machines and things like that, but at least they don’t have to pay to store those charts and they don’t have to look for those charts all day long.

It’s very frustrating. As somebody who spent many hours in my former profession looking for patients’ charts—there’s nothing worse. As somebody who worked with her husband—probably the most stressful part of working with my husband in a medical clinic was that he would accuse me of having the chart, and I would accuse him of having the chart, and invariably it was me who was at fault. I have to say that those charts pile up, and somewhere in there is the chart that I should have put for re-filing.

I think there is a question among patients about accessing their records if they move out of the province. That’s always a very big question, and a problem for many patients. When they move out of the province, how do their records get accessed? Are they going to be able to get a printed copy or an electronic copy?

Right now, a lot of diagnostic tests, even MRIs and ultrasounds, are put digitally on a DVD, and the patients have to go pick it up from the hospital after a radiologist has viewed it and actually transport it to another hospital where they have an appointment with another specialist. That is an incredible waste of people’s time. It’s an incredible waste of money, because they have to put it on a DVD and bring it to another hospital. When you have a great system like Alberta—and even Newfoundland, supposedly, has a better e-health system than we have in Ontario, which is quite shocking. That’s not what the digital age is all about.

It’s a little bit like us here in the Legislature. We are not using electronic devices. It’s a historic place here. It’s about protocol. It’s a bit old-fashioned, I guess, for most people, but it’s not the most efficient place. I’m sure that the people at the Hansard desk would love it if, instead of sending around pieces of paper to them, we could just press “send” from our device, and we would send them our notes, and they could just upload it.

That’s exactly how health care systems are supposed to work. It shouldn’t be patients picking up DVDs from one hospital to bring to another, as is happening in downtown Toronto right now. I know that even very recently, patients had to go from Mount Sinai to a nearby hospital and pick up a DVD. I’m just shocked when I hear that kind of thing.

There’s duplication of services, because if patients are seen in an emergency room up at their cottage and have a test done, when they come to Toronto and they say to their doctor, “Well, I had a test done,” the doctor says, “It’s easier for me just to reorder the test and send you to redo the test than it is for me to access that information.” That’s a waste of health care dollars.

I think that’s sort of what it’s all about. Yes, it’s very important to spend the money updating the privacy of electronic health records. At the same time, it’s more important to make sure we have a state-of-the-art electronic health care system. I don’t know why we are just focusing on one aspect of eHealth instead of revamping the whole thing.

This is part of the problem: Health care dollars—too much is being spent on bureaucracy. Invariably, patients understand that rent has to be paid and staff have to be paid, but with a real state-of-the-art electronic health care record system, patients’ privacy could be protected and the efficiencies could be there. Yes, it’s an initial investment; we see how expensive it is. Maybe it is not too late to ask Alberta for some support or help.

Most hospitals now have electronic health care systems in place. The problem is that different hospitals have different systems and, yes, the doctors’ offices that are part of the government-approved system to get support funding have to be on specific electronic health care record companies. I think there were five companies they were allowed to use.

But there are still many physicians who are outside of that loop; they’re not getting any government support or funding, but they’re using electronic health care records systems that are not able to be integrated into any kind of health care system that we implement here. I think that one of our concerns is that, yes, we can oversee the privacy concerns of any health care record system that is integrated in the loop for the government, but what about all these private clinics where people basically just make a Word document, and they call that an electronic health care record, and they type it into the computer?

Maybe it’s a bit old-school, but they feel that they’re retiring in a few years and don’t feel like investing $100,000 in electronic health care records.

I think that I’ve pretty much covered what I wanted to say today. Thank you very much, and I look forward to the comments.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Ms. Cindy Forster: It’s been an interesting conversation so far. I heard the minister actually speak about how these changes are going to provide some balance, as well, in the system.

I worked for many years representing nurses in the health care system. Yes, as the member from Thornhill said, sometimes workers were a bit nosey, looking at patient records. But there have been situations in this province where nurses and other health care workers—but nurses in particular, because that’s who I represented—were terminated from their jobs, and we were unable to get their jobs back. Some of them were actually viewing patient records as a learning tool.

I’ll give you one example: a nurse in one of the hospitals that I represented who worked in the emergency department part-time and worked in the step-down ICU part-time. On Sunday, he might be working in the emergency department and he might have seen 20 patients during his shift. On Monday, he’d come in and he was looking after a different group of patients; maybe some of them were admitted to that unit; maybe they weren’t. This nurse would go back and actually look at some of the patients that he saw in the emergency department and was treating on the Sunday.

That was considered a violation of the legislation because those patients were no longer in his circle of care. He was going back to see, “Did that patient really have a myocardial infarction, or was it just indigestion and was he sent home? Was I correct?” He was terminated from his job. We were unable to get the job back.

I think that there needs to be something in the legislation that takes into consideration that nursing is a caring profession, and sometimes they want to continue to make that connection with their patients.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Hon. Glen R. Murray: I’m assuming the member from Thornhill has a sense of humor about this because I’m a little perplexed. You and I and 14 million Ontarians paid $30,000 to put eHealth in place in every single doctor’s office. They all got a $30,000 cheque. At that time, I ran a business. I had to have electronic health records; I had to pay for my own.

Then they’d been paid, up until this year, thousands of dollars a year to operate that system. Tell me anybody else—a rheumatologist who makes over $500,000 a year easily in many cases is now simply being asked to do that. To suggest, as the member from Thornhill did, that these people should go back to using paper is insulting to the people of Ontario who paid for that.

My doctor and most doctors are fine folks. My partner is an operating room nurse. My mother has battled cancer. The electronic records here, or at least the medical records almost everyone has—80% of docs have electronic records. I ran a health care centre in Manitoba. I saw my mother battle breast cancer in Quebec. Our electronic health records, I would argue, are the best in Canada. I’m amazed, having to support my mom, at how easy it is, how connected her pharmacologist is to the other specialists she sees.

It is an extraordinarily good—when she went into one of the other care—when she fractured her hip, it was there instantaneously. There are not that many places in the world that have that.

The irony, coming from a member of the Conservative Party: We inherited an electronic system that was so badly, badly conceived and so redundant, we had to dump it because no one, including the best specialists, could figure out how to do it. That’s where most of the money was lost in the so-called eHealth scandal. It was actually your scandal, because over 50%—

Interjection.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: One of your colleagues is laughing. Fact on the record: Most of the costs were to dump a system the Tories brought in that didn’t work. Have a little humility.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Norm Miller: I’m pleased to have an opportunity to comment on Bill 119,

An Act to amend the Personal Health Information Protection Act, 2004, and to comment on the speech from the member from Thornhill. I think she did make some very useful comments, and of course, she does have a background in the health field.

In particular, I think one of the best comments she made was that we should look at other jurisdictions. Instead of always trying to come up with a unique Ontario solution, if someone else has already got a good system, why not use their system? We do have a bad track record in Ontario, as borne out by the Auditor General’s reports, where we spent a lot of money and have not necessarily gotten that great a value for our money.

If Alberta has a system that’s working really well, why not look at Alberta and use some of their expertise instead of trying to come up with our own system? I just got a Presto card that allows you to use the TTC, GO Transit and other transit systems. I wondered why Ontario took so long to get that when, back in 1988, I was in Hong Kong and they had a card then in Hong Kong—and in London, England, they have the Oyster card. Yet with that card, from what I understand, we did the same thing. We had to create our own system instead of looking around the world, where so many other systems have worked for years and years and years and years.

I expect we could save a lot of money and have it in place a lot faster if we took that approach. As the member from Thornhill recommended, I think we need to look at other jurisdictions that have already found solutions to some of our problems and learn from them and use their expertise.

Ontario has been pretty slow on the electronic health records file, and it’s something that’s vital to improving both the quality and the efficiency of our health care system. I’m glad we’re getting around to it now, but I think we should learn from other jurisdictions.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Wayne Gates: I’m certainly pleased to rise on Bill 119. It’s not every day in the House that you get to talk directly to the health minister. I’m going to take that opportunity to do that in line with this bill.

Some of the concerns that we’re reading about are about our seniors and what’s going on in our communities right across the province of Ontario. The issue is very clear that we have a system that’s supposed to be publicly funded and publicly delivered. So people, and in particular seniors, are thinking that that means that they’re going to have health care when they’re over 65. And what we’re finding in the province of Ontario, unfortunately, is that that’s not the case.

We had a terrible example, as you’re aware, Minister, with what happened with US Steel in the courts just a couple of weeks ago. I watched it on CHCH, and it brought tears to my eyes. We had a group of seniors, 70 or 75 years old, who had diabetes or high blood pressure, or they had cancer that they needed some treatment for. They were cut off on the Thursday, that day. The very next day, the pharmacy was calling them to tell them they had no coverage. Can you imagine being 70 years old in the province of Ontario and being told that you no longer have medication?

You’ve got some very tough choices: Do you sell your house? Do you ask your kids to help you out? When you’re sick and you’re 70 years old or 75 years old or 80 years old, you can’t go back to work.

We have a real crisis here. When you take a look at drug costs, they think their drugs are covered. I think it’s an education process for our seniors. We’re going to have to tell them that in our system today they’re going to have to pay for drugs. That’s the way it is. If you take a look at it in the study, I have it right here—you can shake your head, Doctor; I’ll bring it over to you because I read it this morning—they are saying that it’s going to cost seniors over $5,000 a year just to pay for drugs. Thank you very much; I’d like to talk longer with you.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): I now return to the member for Thornhill. You have two minutes for a response.

Mrs. Gila Martow: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, and thank you to the Minister of the Environment and Climate Change for his comments, and my colleague from Parry Sound–Muskoka as well as the member from Niagara Falls.

What I would say is—obviously I have to have a sense of humor if I’m going to survive working here. Maybe the Minister for the Environment and Climate Change misheard, but I very clearly stated that these two specialists work between two to four days a month in a clinic. That’s not their full-time job. When they state that they don’t want to pay $400 in fees to be on an electronic health care records system for working two days a month, that’s their choice; that’s their statement. That was not my suggestion to them, as he stated. I want to correct that on the record.

In terms of his statement that the specialists make $500,000, I would like to see a review of what pediatric allergists make. Perhaps they bill $500,000 and then they have their expenses to pay. I have no idea what they bill and I have no idea what they make, but I would say that’s very presumptuous of him to come out with a number like that.

One area that we actually haven’t touched on that I would like to just mention is e-prescriptions. Right now, doctors are still filling out prescriptions, and that’s a huge place for human error. Maybe their computer prints it out so it’s a little bit neater, but I think that we all would really love to see the communication directly from the actual computer device go to the pharmacist.

Interjection.

Mrs. Gila Martow: Yes. Some clinics do have it.

When I see my doctor, I’m still given a prescription by hand, so obviously it’s not happening in every clinic. I am aware that it happens in many places, but I think that patients want to have that—

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Thank you for your comments.

Further debate?

M me France Gélinas: I guess I will have nine minutes this morning to start my one-hour lead. Maybe I will use my nine minutes to go through the entire bill, and when I have a chance to finish my 51-minute lead, I will go into more details as to parts of the bill that need improvement.

To start out with, Bill 119,

An Act to amend the Personal Health Information Protection Act, 2004, to make certain related amendments and to repeal and replace the Quality of Care Information Protection Act, 2004, is a tough piece of legislation to wrap your head around. It has 37 pages of changing bits and pieces of legislation in a number of different pieces of legislation.

I have been here for over eight years. I have read many, many health bills in those eight years. Whenever a bill starts with a four-page explanatory note, you know that you’re in for—

Ms. Cindy Forster: A ride.

M me France Gélinas: You’re in for a ride, and it’s really hard.

The problem is that each and every one of us will be impacted by this bill. We have to get it right. If we get it wrong, we will do immense damage to our health care system.

Why do I say this? I say this because trust is at the heart of our health care system. For quality care to take place, there needs to be a relationship of trust between human beings, between somebody who is in need of care and somebody who is able to help them, with their knowledge of health care. If that relationship of trust is broken, no quality care will ever take place.

This piece of legislation, in a sense, is playing catch-up, because right now, the way that our Personal Health Information Protection Act is written—it was written in 2004. In 2004, electronic health records were in their infancy. We could get your name, OHIP number and address electronically, but everything else was in a paper chart.

This piece of legislation absolutely needs to change. It needs to realize that we are in 2015 and that most health care providers are now using an electronic health record. How well it works is a question for another day. Some of it doesn’t work worth beans; some of it works better. But at the end of the day, the electronic health record is there.

The opportunity for this relationship of trust to be broken is also there. That’s why this piece of legislation is important. It needs to move forward, and we need to get it right.

What can we do to better protect the health information that is shared between—we’ll call them patients and caregivers, or clients and health providers, but you get the idea. How do we do that better? This act takes a number of steps to bring us there. It will talk about who is responsible for keeping this safe. How can we, as clients, as patients, decide who has access and who does not have access?

It goes on to penalties. Who will be held responsible if something goes wrong? What are the penalties to the actual employee, worker, physician, the person who was the custodian of that information?

It also goes on to say that there will be people who will have access to that information in order to manage our health care system, because the better you know the health of the people of Ontario, the better you can plan. I can see the importance of that. Now that information is being collected electronically, it allows us to do things that we were never able to do before: to collect data, to see trends, to see differences regionally or based on race or sex or whatever else, so that we can adjust our health care system.

All of this is great if you can do it in a way that protects patient information, because once that information goes out into the public sphere, once it is on the Web, we will never be able to regain that trust. This is like one of those bank accounts where you can make many, many deposits into a trust account but you only make one withdrawal. Once you make one withdrawal, once you have lost this trust, the account is empty and will stay empty forever. I want us to get this right, but life shows us that we are a long way from that.

Others have mentioned what happened to Mr. Rob Ford, whose personal health records were accessed over 100 times by people who had nothing to do with providing care to this man. This is wrong; this is wrong on every level that you look at. We had other cases where people were actually collecting data when a new child was born in this province and selling that information to a baby photographer so he knew who to contact so that he could sell baby photography to them. This is wrong. This is wrong on every level that you look at.

This bill puts steps in place to make sure this never happens again. But there is a big “if” and there is a big “but” in there. It assumes that the electronic health system will be able to block things, will be able to shelter information from some people, some part of your chart. Unfortunately, the systems we have in place right now—whether you look at the system the health units are using, Panorama, or that the different hospitals are using, or community health centres or family health teams, they’re all using different systems but none of them has the electronic ability to do this in a way that is electronically secure.

What does that mean? That means that responsibility then lies on the shoulders of the people who use that information. So the education of the people within the system will be huge in order for them to comply with a bill that is so tough to understand. Although I have been here for a long time, and I follow the health file very closely, I have a hard time understanding it. Can you see the disconnect there, Speaker?

We are putting forward a bill that depends on electronic means that do not exist at the present time. I sure hope those will become available—the sooner the better—but right now, as we speak, they are not available; so then the responsibility shifts to health care providers and anybody else who works within the health care system, whether it be the custodian, the medical secretary, the receptionist or anybody else who happens to be around at the time.

Then there’s the other big elephant in the room: that more and more of our programs and services that used to be delivered within the hospital system—a hospital has means. They have a reputation and they have many reasons to want to get it right. They will have their lawyers look at this; they will have a way to teach their staff and physicians to make sure they understand. But more and more the programs and services that used to be within our hospitals are now being transferred into private clinics, into the community.

Our hospitals are being told that if it is not acute hospital care, then it is okay to send it off. Most of them are under really tight budgets. They look at where they can decrease their expenses, cut costs, and they say, “If we stop offering outpatient physio, then we don’t have to pay for those services anymore, and those services will be provided by for-profit physio clinics in the community. If we stop providing colonoscopies and let a private clinic in the community do them, those are savings that we can achieve.” And they’re doing this; they’re doing this full tilt. Did you know, Speaker, that—my time?

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): I thank you very much.

Second reading debate deemed adjourned.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Seeing the time on the clock, this House stands recessed until 10:30.

The House recessed from 1015 to 1030.

Introduction of Visitors

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Do I see the member from Parkdale–High Park on a point of order?

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: You see the member for introductions.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Okay. Let me do my normal rotation, please.

Introductions? The member from Thornhill.

Mrs. Gila Martow: I want to welcome members of the Persian francophone association of Ontario. They’re pretty well known in North York, Thornhill and Richmond Hill, and they come from many diverse cultures and backgrounds. We have Bijan Mahjari, Narges Mozassari and Noushin Hashemi. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: We have a number of trans activists and their allies here in the gallery: Steven Little, Luke Fox, Melissa Hudson, Lauren Hetherington, Christine Newman, Nicki Ward, Maya Cole, Davina Hader, Susan Gapka, Christopher Karas, Claire McConnell, Tim McConnell, Monique Chin, Christin Milloy, Mathieu Chantelois, Marg Foy, Maurice Tomlinson, and Stella and Jessica Skinner. We welcome you all to Queen’s Park.

Mrs. Cristina Martins: I have a number of visitors visiting here today, and I want to start off by welcoming a class of grade 12 students visiting from the Toronto Ouest French school in my riding of Davenport, accompanied by their teacher, Monsieur Edmond. Bienvenue à Queen’s Park.

Hon. Mitzie Hunter: I’m very pleased to introduce Joan Blair, the mother of my LA, Tiff Blair, who is visiting from Montreal today. Welcome.

Hon. Kevin Daniel Flynn: I’d like to welcome two visitors in the members’ gallery who are joining us for question period this morning from Oakville. The page from Oakville in this session is Brooke Westwater; her brother, Noah, and her grandmother, Carol, are here to watch Brooke, and she is the page captain today. Please welcome them to Queen’s Park.

Mr. Todd Smith: I’d like to welcome one of my constituency assistants from Belleville, Ontario, Canada. Ashley Harnden is here with us today.

Mrs. Cristina Martins: I wish to introduce a committee of delegates visiting us from Portugal this week on the occasion of the Transmontano Folklore Group of Toronto’s 34th anniversary celebration this Saturday. They just walked in: Dr. Artur Nunes, mayor of Miranda Do Douro region; Celmira Macedo, president of the LEQUE Association; Helder Ferreira, curator of the Iberian Masks; members of the folk group Lenga Lenga; and Ana Costa, president of the Transmontano Folklore Group of Toronto. I extend a warm welcome to them and wish them a fabulous time here in Ontario. Bem-vindos.

Mr. Yvan Baker: I just want to take this opportunity to acknowledge some guests who are with us: Saira Kirefu and Husein Kirefu. They are the mother and father of page captain Aminah Kirefu, from my riding of Etobicoke Centre.

Mrs. Cristina Martins: I just saw them walk in: I would like to introduce a class of grade 5 students visiting the Legislature from St. Nicholas of Bari Catholic School in my riding of Davenport, accompanied by their teacher, Ms. Rose Di Pede. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Mrs. Marie-France Lalonde: I would like to recognize a few birthdays that are occurring either today or in the next day. One of our colleagues, MPP Martins, is celebrating her birthday today. Happy birthday. Also, Minister Dipika Damerla’s will be upcoming, and Minister Meilleur will be celebrating her birthday this weekend.

Ms. Sylvia Jones: It gives me great pleasure to welcome my uncle Don Archer and Audrey, but I would like to talk to you afterwards about explaining why you didn’t tell me you were attending question period today.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): First time I’ve ever heard a reprimand in an introduction. I thought that was pretty good.

Mrs. Marie-France Lalonde: It is with great pleasure this morning that I would like to introduce members of our great city of Ottawa. On behalf of the Ottawa caucus, I would like to welcome David Gourlay; his wife, Danielle McGee; and their very newborn Sophia McGee-Gourlay in the House this morning, in our Legislature. Thank you for being here.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Let’s try not to make the baby cry.

The member from Beaches–East York.

Mr. Arthur Potts: With your indulgence, this is really more of a point of order.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): A point of order from the member from Beaches–East York.

Mr. Arthur Potts: I have with today me a plaque that I received as the Canadian delegation lead in Mexico, that was presented to me. I was there replacing the honourable Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs. The plaque is in fact made out in his name, and I would like to give it to him today.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Go right ahead. That’s actually not a point of order.

However, that said, I do have a point of order—wait a minute; I have the member from Nickel Belt. On an introduction?

M me France Gélinas: Introduction, yes. Were you done with introductions, Speaker?

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): No.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m trying to be lenient but I don’t think it’s going to work.

Carry on.

M me France Gélinas: Ça me fait extrêmement plaisir de présenter des étudiants de l’école Toronto Ouest, des étudiants de 12 e année. On a ici avec nous, dans la galerie, Darya Arzani, Denis Beslimov, Éloïse Slater, Jeremy Young et John-Alex Duff-Wilson. On a Marcos Santos, Nicolas Karwowski, Patrisha DeMille, Simone Helston, Tiana Crosbie, ainsi que leur enseignant, M. Simon Edmond. Bienvenue à Queen’s Park.

Transgender Day of Remembrance

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Point of order, the member from Parkdale High Park.

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: I rise on a point of order. I believe we have unanimous consent—and by the way, this is an historic first for a jurisdiction of this size, so I thank all members—that we rise and observe a moment of silence for the Trans Day of Remembrance, to recognize and honour those hundreds who have been killed or have died due to anti-trans hatred and anti-trans prejudice.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Parkdale–High Park is seeking a unanimous consent to provide a moment of silence in respect of transgender deaths. Do we agree? Agreed. I would ask all members of the House to please rise for a moment of silence.

The House observed a moment’s silence.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Just before we begin, I would just indicate that it was the first time I had anything like the member from Beaches–East York doing this. I’m going to recommend that it not become a habit. It was actually not a point of order and I’d appreciate not doing those kinds of things in the House during business time.

Oral Questions

Privatization of public assets

Mr. Patrick Brown: To the Acting Premier: We all know there’s money coming in from the Hydro One fire sale, but what we really know is that money is not going for infrastructure. The plan the Premier touts was announced in a budget a full year prior, without the sale of Hydro One. It cost $130 billion in 2014. That was the planning for infrastructure over 10 years. In 2015, it was still $130 billion, with not a single cent added for infrastructure. There is no new money. This is a shell game. Is the government willing to explain why the infrastructure budget hasn’t changed by one cent?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I am delighted to answer this question, and I have to say I’m a bit surprised by it, because we are making a historic investment in infrastructure, and we do have to pay for that infrastructure.

We’ve always been very clear that the revenue that will pay for the new infrastructure will come from a variety of sources, including maximizing the value of our assets.

I’m very pleased that we’ve generated almost $3 billion so far on the Hydro One IPO. We will be making other decisions that will pay for the infrastructure that this province so desperately needs.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Patrick Brown: Again to the Acting Premier: Even if the government does spend $1.4 billion from the fire sale on infrastructure, it would only account for 1% of the infrastructure budget. This isn’t about infrastructure. The FAO actually said it would be cheaper to borrow money, yet the Liberal government plowed ahead with this plan anyway.

The Hydro One fire sale, I will repeat, is not about infrastructure. There is no new infrastructure money. It is a ruse—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m hearing it on both sides, and I’m going to have to kind of tighten it up. If you don’t do it, I will.

Please finish.

Mr. Patrick Brown: Given that there are no changes in the infrastructure budget, will the government tell the House—no more shell games, no more distractions: Is the money going to pay for your next scandal, or was it the last one?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: This is a bizarre line of questioning. We’ve always been very, very clear: We’re committed to making those investments in infrastructure. We’re not going to do it by raising taxes and we’re not going to do it by slashing services. The way forward that we have chosen is to get maximum value from the infrastructure, the assets that we already have.

We will be investing in infrastructure, including infrastructure that I think should be very important to the member from Barrie. One of the projects that we will be expanding significantly is the Barrie line, from 70 trips a week to over 200 trips a week. If the member from Barrie doesn’t think we should be making this investment for the people of Barrie, then I think he’s got some explaining to do.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Mr. Patrick Brown: Again to the Acting Premier: I get a sense that your own caucus doesn’t buy this spin, doesn’t buy this ridiculous assertion that it’s for infrastructure.

Let me share with you a few examples. The member for York West once said, “There is nothing the public of Ontario ... will benefit from with the sale of Hydro One.”

The member from Peterborough said, “We’ve been pretty clear” that the Liberals will “keep ... Hydro One in the public’s hands,” as it should be.

The member from St. Catharines is on the record as saying, “I think anyone who looks objectively at” the Hydro One fire sale “would recognize that it ... is best kept in ... public hands.”

How does the Premier justify having those members—in her cabinet—publicly disagree with her? Why does she ignore them at the cabinet table? Listen to your own caucus members.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Deputy Premier.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Well, Speaker, when it comes to listening to one’s caucus, I’m not inclined to take lessons from that member opposite.

I think our caucus is absolutely committed to building the infrastructure of the future of this province. Every single one of our caucus members hears from the municipal leaders about the need for investments in infrastructure.

When we talk to our municipal councils, when we talk to our business people, they are unanimous in saying we need to invest in infrastructure.

The party opposite had the chance to invest in infrastructure. Instead of building infrastructure, they filled in the hole that was already being dug for the Eglinton subway. That’s their attitude on infrastructure; it sure is not ours.

Post-secondary education and skills training / Éducation postsecondaire et formation professionelle

Mr. Patrick Brown: Again to the Acting Premier: Since this government doesn’t want to talk about why there’s no new money for infrastructure, let’s talk about the skills mismatch. I know this government is well aware of the surplus of young Ontarians graduating from teachers’ college—two graduates for every one job—but their solution of extending teachers’ college by a year simply won’t make a dent in a larger problem.

The amount of new teachers is just one example of the growing skills gap in our province. Two things I hear regularly are that employers can’t find qualified candidates and that young Ontarians don’t have the skills for the jobs available today.

Young people are forced to leave Ontario because they can’t find work, because of the skills gap. The gap is even costing Ontario’s economy $24.3 billion a year and $3.7 billion in forgone tax revenue.

Mr. Speaker, will the government tell us what they’re doing to deal with the significant skills mismatch that exists in Ontario?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Speaker, we’re making unprecedented investments in skills and training, and I have to say that our record on education is an extraordinary record. I think even the members of the opposite party have to acknowledge that when our graduation rate has gone from 68% to 84% since they were in charge of our education system, kids are getting an opportunity that they never would have had had they dropped out of high school.

Our investments in education are having a profound impact on the success of our young people. We’re continuing to make investments. We’ve built a very strong foundation, cleaning up the mess that was left behind by the Conservatives when they had the chance.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Patrick Brown: I appreciate the Acting Premier answering a different question, so I’ll try again and be a bit more specific.

While Ontario graduates 4,000 new teachers each year without a job for them after they graduate—I visit places like Cambrian College, where there are more jobs available than there are graduates in their power line program.

The skills gap exists in this province; it is real. As many as 52% of engineering and infrastructure firms have difficulty hiring someone with the qualifications they need. Employers shouldn’t have to go beyond Ontario to find workers, and, frankly, young people shouldn’t have to leave Ontario to find jobs.

Mr. Speaker, can the government outline to us what plans they have to deal with the skills gap?

Don’t say it doesn’t exist. It exists. What are you going to do to solve the problem?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities.

Hon. Reza Moridi: I want to thank the Leader of the Opposition for that question.

Mr. Speaker, I’m proud to report to the House that our universities and colleges have been doing the best job in the world. We have the best universities and the best colleges in the world. This year, Queen’s University produced a Nobel Prize winner in physics.

We are very proud of our graduates. Around the world, the graduates of our universities and colleges are very well thought of. This is something we have to be very proud of.

In relation to the teachers’ profession, we are aware of that, and in the future, the demand and the supply of teachers will be balanced. Of course, during the years when the NDP and the Conservatives were in office, there was an enormous shortage of teachers. We have met that demand. Now there’s a supply and demand discrepancy somehow, but that will be rectified in the coming years.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Mr. Patrick Brown: Back to the Acting Premier: Another gap exists in education in Ontario, and that relates to francophone education.

Partout en Ontario, les francophones souhaitent gérer eux-mêmes leurs programmes universitaires au sein d’une université par et pour les francophones, comme c’est déjà le cas pour leurs écoles, leurs conseils solaires et leurs collèges.

C’est pourquoi notre parti appuie le projet d’université franco-ontarienne et demande au gouvernement d’agir rapidement pour appuyer cet important projet.

Quand est-ce que le gouvernement va répondre à la demande de la communauté franco-ontarienne et s’engager à mettre sur pied cette institution?

Hon. Reza Moridi: Mr. Speaker, our government is committed to providing post-secondary education in the French language. That’s why we have two bilingual universities in Ontario and we have two fully French-language colleges in our province of Ontario. We are committed to providing post-secondary education.

Today, there are 22,000 students in our province of Ontario that receive post-secondary education in French language in our universities and colleges. In 2014-15, we invested $90 million to support French language training in our universities and colleges.

I am aware of the aspirations and desires of our francophone community. I have been talking with the student groups and the community groups. We have also established an administrative advisory committee on the French language, whose report will be issued to you next March, Mr. Speaker.

Privatization of public assets

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is for the Acting Premier. More than 185 municipalities have called on this Premier of our province to keep Hydro One public. But yesterday, every Liberal in the House voted to ignore municipalities.

Why is this Liberal government refusing to listen to people everywhere, from Atikokan to Zorra, who want the hydro sell-off stopped?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Speaker, I must say that everyone from Atikokan to Zorra also wants investments in infrastructure, and that is exactly what this is about. We have assets; we need different kinds of assets for the future. The assets in infrastructure must be built. They must be built now. We have a plan to build those and to pay for them.

Municipalities have spoken to every single member of our caucus. I expect that every single member in this House have heard from municipalities, loud and clear, that these investments in infrastructure must be made and they must be made now. That is what we are delivering on.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Over 80% of Ontarians want the Premier to keep Hydro One public. But yesterday, every Liberal in the House voted to ignore Ontarians, and, trust me, Speaker, Ontarians are going to be hearing about that.

Why is this Liberal government refusing to listen to such an overwhelming majority of Ontarians who want the sell-off of Hydro One stopped?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Minister of Transportation.

Hon. Steven Del Duca: You know, it’s interesting: I had the privilege to speak yesterday afternoon to the motion that the leader of the NDP is talking about. In the discussion yesterday afternoon, I asked a question of her and her party which, of course, didn’t get an answer. I guess I will put that question back to her.

It’s also delightful that she asks about caucus members on this side of the House, given how many of her caucus colleagues have significant requests for infrastructure investments in their communities. Whether it’s Hamilton or it’s London or it’s the north or it’s Windsor or it’s Durham or it’s Kitchener—any of those regions across the province—they want more investments, and I wonder if the leader of the NDP will come clean and tell her caucus colleagues which of their projects she would cancel if she had the choice.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Businesses know that the Hydro One sell-off is bad for them. But yesterday, every Liberal in this House voted to ignore small business, big business, manufacturing, the agricultural industry, the mining industry—you name it, Speaker. Every one of those sectors does not want to see any more sell-off of Hydro One.

Why is this Liberal government refusing to listen to the job creators in this province? Why are they refusing to listen? Why will they not stop the sell-off of Hydro One?

Hon. Steven Del Duca: I think it’s unfortunate that the leader of the NDP has a different perspective on this. What every single member in this government caucus voted for yesterday was continuing to build this province up and moving it forward.

Specifically, we voted for a re-established Connecting Link fund. We voted for extended GO service to Hamilton, specifically to Stoney Creek. We voted for two-way all-day GO service across all of our seven corridors. We even voted yesterday for the potential to extend GO trains for Niagara region.

To support the north, to support the southwest, to support all regions of this province: That’s what we voted for. The question is, why won’t you?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

New question—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Hold on. Order.

New question.

Privatization of public assets

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Back to the Acting Premier—but I must say I think it’s funny that the Minister of Transportation has no idea that in that big list of projects he just mentioned, each one of them will likely cost more than the $1.4 billion they’re getting for the sell-off of Hydro One. How sad is that?

This is a question, now, to the Acting Premier that’s about integrity and honesty. Just over a year ago, the Premier stood right here in this House in her place and she said to me, “There is not a sell-off of these companies.” But here we are.

Can the Acting Premier explain why anyone in this province should trust the current Premier and the current Liberal government?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): It was to the Acting Premier.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I apologize. It’s a new question.

Same question, new question, the answer remains the same: We will be raising $9 billion through the sale of a portion of Hydro One. That number was confirmed by the Financial Accountability Officer. The Leader of the Opposition wants to pretend that that is not the right number, but that is the number that was confirmed by the Financial Accountability Officer.

In fact, we have already collected almost $3 billion, cash in hand, received through the IPO. We are going to use that money to pay down debt and to build badly needed infrastructure.

We know the NDP doesn’t think that’s a good idea. We also know that the NDP has no idea how they would pay—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, the question is actually going to the integrity of this government. In October 2014, the Minister of Finance who is sitting right there now looked me in the eye and said, “We have made it clear that we are not going to sell off our assets.” That’s what he said in this chamber, in this House. But last week, they issued a press release bragging about the province’s sale of Hydro One.

It is time for this government to take a step towards regaining the trust of the people of this province. Will the Liberals stand by their previous commitments and stop any further sell-off of Hydro One or any other revenue-generating asset in this province?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Minister of Finance.

Hon. Charles Sousa: Well, that’s interesting. We have put the notion and the reason as to why we’re looking at our assets—all of it, for that matter: to do a full review of how to maximize the value for the public and the people of Ontario. We put it in the 2014 budget, which that member didn’t even have the decency to respond to or talk to the press about. In fact, they turned their backs on Ontarians when they voted it down the second time around, where we had the option and the opportunity to again reinforce the review of our assets, including real estate, including passive shares, including Hydro One.

In the 2015 budget, we reaffirmed the increases on the optimization of those assets, the dedication of increases to the Moving Ontario Forward plan equivalent to the amount of asset valuation increases, again to be reinvested, dollar for dollar, for the people of Ontario and for our future generations.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: In October 2014, the Premier of this province said here in this House, “We’re not selling off the assets.” Put simply, the Premier has broken trust with the people of Ontario. She didn’t run on selling assets, she promised them thereafter that she wasn’t going to sell the assets and then, Speaker, she proceeded to start selling off the assets of the people of this province.

Will the Acting Premier show that integrity, keep the promises that the Premier and this Liberal government have made and stop any further sell-off of Hydro One or any other revenue-generating asset that the people of this province own?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Minister?

Hon. Charles Sousa: Mr. Speaker, we promised that we would increase the valuation of our assets for the benefit of the people of Ontario, and we did that in the IPO for only 15% of that transaction, which equated to a net of $3 billion to reinvest in Trillium Trust, to reinvest in infrastructure—and an additional billion dollars to pay down debt.

We said that, and this is what the leader of the opposition said in July 2014. She read the same budget, apparently, that the rest of us did, and she says this: “The budget says in black and white that the government is looking at the sale of assets, ‘including ... crown corporations, such as Ontario Power Generation, Hydro One and the Liquor Control Board of Ontario.’” She said it, Mr. Speaker.

We are going forward with maximizing value for the people of Ontario and reinvesting those funds dollar for dollar, as stipulated in our budget.

By-election in Sudbury

Mr. Victor Fedeli: My question is for the Deputy Premier. All we’ve seen from this Liberal government is one scandal after another. The recurring theme is they can never get their stories straight.

During the gas plant scandal, they couldn’t get their story straight on who paid Peter Faist to delete the files off the government computers. It turns out that the taxpayers paid the $10,000.

Now the government can’t get their story straight on the Sudbury bribery scandal. First, they didn’t know who paid Gerry’s Lougheed’s legal bills; then it wasn’t the government; and now we know the Liberals paid the bills until he was charged. But the Premier stated that Gerry Lougheed doesn’t speak for the Liberal Party. So my question is, why did the Liberals pay his legal fees in the first place?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: The Premier made it very clear yesterday that the government has not paid anything towards the legal bills here. The party is not paying anything.

This is an issue that’s in the courts, and we’ll have no further comment on that.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Victor Fedeli: Well, back to the Deputy Premier: The recurring theme with this scandal-plagued government is they can never get their stories straight.

In the teachers’ union scandal, it was $ 1 million; it was for pizzas—no, wait; it’s $3 million; it’s for negotiating—no, wait; it’s for labour peace. Every single day, the story changed.

Now in the Sudbury bribery scandal, it’s obvious that many Liberals are going to be subpoenaed by the crown or by Mr. Lougheed’s lawyers. They’d better get their story straight before they swear an oath. But I’m curious: Will they be in court standing up for Ontario’s taxpayers or for the Liberal Party? And my question is, will the Premier and her deputy chief of staff be testifying for the crown or for the defence?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Deputy Premier.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Speaker, we’re not going to speculate on an issue that’s before the courts.

Refugees

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: My question is to the Acting Premier. Canada has promised to welcome 25,000 Syrians, and New Democrats are proud to support this commitment. We are proud to stand with Ontarians to welcome Syrian refugees to our community. It’s a part of our strong tradition of respecting the importance of bringing in immigrants, and standing up for the global community, and respecting the refugees in our society.

But a promise is not enough alone. We also need a plan. This government needs to come forward with a plan to ensure that these people receive the adequate services they so desperately need.

What is this government’s plan when it comes to housing, support services and language services for these refugees who so desperately need assistance in addition to just promises?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Thank you for that question. I think we are united in the understanding that Ontario is a welcoming place, that we are a place where people from around the world can find a safe haven. I am delighted that Ontario is stepping up to create the conditions for successful integration into our communities of these refugees coming from Syria.

We have established an ad hoc group of ministers, co-chaired by the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care and the Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and International Trade. I am honoured to be a member of that committee.

I will give the supplementary to the Minister of Health, who can talk about the issues that we are dealing with.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: I’m encouraged by the fact that our province has made a strong commitment, and I’m encouraged by the fact that our country has made a strong commitment. We also need a strong plan to back up this commitment. We need an actual plan with respect to affordable housing to ensure that refugees are housed. We need an actual plan to ensure that there are the health services so that people are adequately taken care of. And we need to ensure that there are language support services.

In addition, we’ve heard today from a press conference that there is a growing backlash against Islamophobia and there’s a growing backlash against community members who will be coming in against the refugees. We need a provincial strategy to ensure that this is responded to with strong language, that we support refugees and that we have a security plan in place.

Will the Acting Premier provide a clear plan on how our province will address all of these important areas so that we can have an actual committed way to bring in these refugees and not just an empty promise?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: The Minister of Health and Long-Term Care.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I think the member opposite realizes that we have yet to get the specific details in terms of the numbers of refugees who will be coming to Ontario, as well as where and when—the timetable.

Given that we expect in the coming days to receive more detailed information, we are working hard in a co-ordinated way, not just across government, but with civil society and our many, many partners. Whether it’s in the education system, housing, settlement agencies that have tremendous expertise in this area, or the health care system, I’m quite frankly amazed at the enthusiasm and confidence that all of these sectors have. We have the capacity and we’ll get the job done.

We have a big responsibility, but a tremendous opportunity, particularly at this time of the year, to welcome, as we always do, these refugees that come from the most horrible circumstances, and to bring them into the safety and security of this province. We have a committee across government that’s working with our partners in civil society and in our public institutions to make sure that we get the job done right.

Affordable housing

Mrs. Cristina Martins: My question is for the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing. This Sunday, November 22, is National Housing Day. National Housing Day recognizes the importance of people having a home to call their own. Our government knows that stable, affordable housing can improve a person’s health and their prospects for a good job and education. National Housing Day is an important time to reflect on how much more work we have in front of us, because the challenges are real and they are growing.

Access to affordable housing is a real issue in my riding in Davenport, and one that I often hear about in my constituency office. As housing costs rise, available affordable housing units decline and wait-lists for social housing continue to grow. I know that when I speak to many of the fantastic social housing organizations in Davenport, like the Perth Avenue co-op and the Tamil co-op, they are really feeling the pressure.

Mr. Speaker, through you to the minister, how is our government responding to the demands of affordable housing in our province?

Hon. Ted McMeekin: I appreciate the question. It’s my interest as minister to ensure that affordable housing is understood as a crucial component of social infrastructure. To do that, we’re having a number of conversations with the municipalities through AMO and other vehicles, the private sector, and a number of agencies that are advocates for housing.

I’m proud that our government is committed to the goal of ending homelessness, which we arrived at by working with our expert panel. I’m also proud that Ontario is supporting the creation of 20,000 affordable rental housing units, more than 275,000 repairs and improvements, and providing rental and down payment assistance to over 90,000 households in need. We’re also going to work with the federal government.

I look forward to presenting more about our long-term housing strategy very soon.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mrs. Cristina Martins: I know the minister agrees that this year National Housing Day feels different from past years. Unfortunately, National Housing Day has historically served as a reminder that Canada is the only G8 country that lacks a national housing strategy.

While I understand that you and your ministry staff work closely with our municipal partners and local service managers to flow funds from the Investment in Affordable Housing program, a comprehensive affordable housing strategy in Ontario really requires all levels of government to work collaboratively.

Now, with the new federal government, there is hope for a renewed and strengthened partnership that goes beyond this commitment to address the growing needs of our province. Mr. Speaker, through you to the minister, what does the minister look forward to building with our new federal partners?

Hon. Ted McMeekin: Mr. Speaker, I look forward first and foremost to actually working with a federal government that gets it and is prepared to make a commitment to working not only with Ontario, but with all the provinces with respect to important issues to them.

We have started conversations, and we’re proceeding with those. The new federal government has made some incredible commitments in the area of social infrastructure and urban infrastructure, something that’s new to federal governments. We’ll be working with them. Our shared sense of purpose is to achieve a sustainable supply of affordable housing and a fair system of housing assistance for those who need it most.

Highway tolls

Mr. Michael Harris: My question is to the Deputy Premier. Yesterday, the Canadian Taxpayers Federation’s freedom-of-information request revealed that not only did this government’s Pan Am HOV lanes make motorists stew in hour-long traffic tie-ups that directly led to a 73% increase in accidents, but they made motorists pay $3.2 million for that privilege. Minister, how do you justify the spending of $3.2 million on accident-inviting, slap-dash, peel-and-stick HOV lane stickers?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Minister of Transportation.

Hon. Steven Del Duca: I thank the member for that question. As I said to media yesterday, the transportation plan for the Pan Am/Parapan Am Games had a budget that was estimated to be $61 million. After completing the Pan Am/Parapan Am Games, in fact, we came in $23 million below that $61-million figure.

I think it’s also important to stress, Speaker, that within that budget of $61 million, we included resources to make sure that we appropriately signed and delineated where the temporary HOV lanes would be in place for the games. We were very happy to listen to law enforcement, one of our most important partners in the transporttation plan, and we opened up the temporary HOV lanes for Pan Am/Parapan Am well in advance of the games, to give motorists and people visiting our region an opportunity to become accustomed to the change that would be coming.

I look forward to following up on this in the supplementary.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Michael Harris: Speaker, back to the minister: These were temporary lane markings that were quite literally flying away in the wind days after they were applied, due to the shoddy stick-on plan, and he bills taxpayers $3.2 million. Will the minister at least acknowledge his $3.2-million HOV rollout for the costly, traffic-tying debacle it was, before he doubles down and transforms HOVs into even more costly HOTs?

Hon. Steven Del Duca: I thank the member opposite, of course, for his follow-up. I just want to stress one more time—I’m not sure if members on that side of the House in the Conservative caucus heard exactly what I said in the first round, Speaker. Of course, I would only assume that they would want to have an opportunity to stand up and clap for the fact that the transportation budget came in $23 million below the original estimate.

Speaker, even more important than that—as that member would know, because I believe he actually took the opportunity to attend a number of the venues and see the sporting events that were taking place—these were the most successful Pan Am/Parapan Am Games in history. More than one million tickets were sold. We had more than 1.4 million people attend Parapan Am and Pan Am celebrations at seven sites, including Panamania Live at Nathan Phillips Square, an Ontario celebration zone. Over the course of both games, more than 31 million Canadians tuned into radio and TV coverage of competitions, Speaker.

With our transportation plan, Speaker, we kept the region moving—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. We’re moving along nicely without some of the little interjections that are taking place.

New question.

Privatization of public assets

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Speaker, my question to the Acting Premier: Every Ontarian pays a debt retirement charge on their electricity bill to pay down the residual stranded debt left over from the old Ontario Hydro. The government keeps the amount of that debt a secret, but we know it was being paid down at a rate of $1.3 billion a year, and stood at $2.6 billion in March 2014.

Simple math says that that debt should be almost paid off by now, but the Financial Accountability Officer showed that because the government is privatizing Hydro One, the residual stranded debt will increase and businesses will have to keep paying $600 million a year in debt retirement charges.

Why must Ontario businesses pay $600 million a year to subsidize the government’s sell-off of Hydro One?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Minister of Energy.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: The member will know that we’re actually accelerating the removal of the debt retirement charge from businesses by nine months. He also knows that it’s already been accelerated starting at the end of this year for residential homeowners. He also knows that we’ve been very, very sensitive to creating mitigation measures for ratepayers across the province.

He knows as well, particularly for businesses, that we have expanded the Industrial Electricity Incentive Program, which gives up to 50% off their bill if they’re creating jobs new in the province or expanding their businesses, including businesses right across the province. We’ve also made available the ICI program for large industrial producers to many more businesses across the province, which takes 20% off their electricity bill.

We’re very sensitive and we’re very responsive to the business community with respect to rates.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Yes, and you’re still sticking them with an extra 600 million bucks a year for this.

At the rate the residual stranded debt was being paid down, it should nearly be paid off by now, but according to the Financial Accountability Officer, by selling Hydro One the government has made the debt bigger. If the government hadn’t privatized Hydro One, it could have eliminated the debt retirement charge for everyone in 2016. Instead, business will keep paying $600 million a year until 2018.

Why should Ontario businesses keep paying that $600 million for the government’s sell-off of Hydro One?

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: Minister of Finance.

Hon. Charles Sousa: Let’s understand what this is. We have a stranded debt, a legacy of the Harris government, which left $21 billion on our books. We have since paid that down, even though the Harris government actually increased the amount of residual stranded debt throughout that period. It is going down; it has been going down continuously; we have outlined how it is.

More recently, a stranded debt of $9.8 billion remains, and currently we are continuing to—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’ll add you to the list. The member from Simcoe–Grey, the member from Lanark and the member from Leeds–Grenville, come to order.

Finish, please.

Hon. Charles Sousa: In fact, the Financial Accountability Officer indicated that as a result of the transaction that we’re putting forward, we will be able to provide an additional amount towards the residual stranded debt. We are now going to be able to provide certainty to businesses that we’re going to do away with the residual stranded debt nine months earlier, notwithstanding the fact that stranded debt will continue, which will have to continue to be paid down by other sources.

The Financial Accountability Officer made it clear that as a result of the way it operates, it’s never certain as to how much it will be, but we’re making it certain.

Métis Nation

Mr. Arthur Potts: My question is to the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs. On Monday, I had the pleasure of joining the minister and many other members of this House, including you, Mr. Speaker, to raise a flag for the Métis here at the Ontario Legislature in celebration of Louis Riel Day. Speaker, you spoke quite passionately about your Métis heritage and you spoke and said you were very proud to call yourself Métis. My good friend Stewart Kiff, who is known to so many of us in the House and is undergoing some personal challenges, is also very proud to call himself Métis.

In my own family, my father regularly spoke of Jerry Potts, the great Métis guide who helped lead the CN surveyors across the foothills of the mountains of the Rockies to build the CN railroad.

The minister, in his remarks on Monday, spoke at length about the significance of our government’s strong relationship with Métis peoples.

Will the minister then tell us more about the significance and what we’re doing to support Métis in Ontario?

Hon. David Zimmer: I’d like to thank the member from Beaches–East York for that question. The Métis are an important part of the richness of Ontario. When we observe Louis Riel Day on November 16 each year, we honour the distinct heritage of Métis communities in Ontario. They are recognized as one of our country’s founding peoples and as one of the aboriginal peoples of Canada by the Constitution Act of 1982.

They built a new culture, taking the traditions of First Nations and European fur traders to create something unique. Louis Riel Day is a time to recognize and respect the history, culture and identity of Métis people. We are grateful for their historic and their ongoing contributions to Ontario and Canada.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Arthur Potts: I know all members of this House would congratulate the minister on the great work he’s doing forging strong relationships with First Nation peoples in Ontario. It’s great to hear that our government recognizes how significant the culture of the Métis people is to our shared history. I applaud the minister for doing such great work building those ties between the government and the Métis peoples. This was certainly reflected in the very warm reception that we all received on the south lawn on Monday.

The minister is often heard to say that when the aboriginal peoples of Canada prosper, Ontario prospers. I’m sure that is especially true and equally true for the Métis people. Speaker, will the minister tell us more about what his ministry is doing to create new opportunities for the Métis people in Ontario and our work to promote their distinct heritage?

Hon. David Zimmer: Last year, I had the privilege of renewing our government’s commitment to the Métis Nation of Ontario by signing a new five-year framework agreement. The agreement sets out how we will work together over the next five years to improve the well-being of Métis children, families and their communities. We will do this by facilitating the recognition and advancement of Métis people in Ontario. We will provide a forum for discussion on matters of mutual concern. We will establish a coordinating committee which will identify priority activities on an annual basis to support the goals and objectives of the new agreement.

Together, we will continue working to build a successful, compassionate and united province, where everyone has the opportunity to connect, contribute and enjoy the highest quality of life.

Health care funding / Financement des soins de santé

Pour le ministre de la Santé et des Soins de longue durée : avec notre population croissante et vieillissante, le système de soins de santé public de l’Ontario est sous une énorme pression. Est-ce que le ministre peut expliquer comment il peut fournir les excellents soins de santé dont les résidents de l’Ontario ont besoin et qu’ils méritent en même temps qu’il coupe des postes de résidence en médecine et réduit les honoraires des médecins?

With our growing and aging population, Ontario’s publicly funded health care system is under immense strain. Will the minister please explain how cutting residency spots and slashing physician fees will provide the top-notch health care that Ontario residents need and deserve?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I appreciate this question. It gives me the opportunity to speak about this important aspect of ensuring that we have the right mix and supply of physicians in this province to attend to Ontarians’ health care needs.

It’s important to state clearly that, since 2003, we’ve actually almost doubled the number of residency positions for physicians in this province from just over 600 to roughly 1,200 today. As a result of those investments, in fact, we’re seeing tremendous progress where, this year alone, 700 net new doctors will be practising in this province. Our projections are that that growth rate of new doctors will be at three times the rate of population growth.

We felt that it was prudent, after doubling the number of residency spots in this province, that we actually use science and evidence and health resource modelling to determine what we should do going forward, and I’ll speak to that in the supplementary.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

M me Gila Martow: Est-ce que le ministre peut expliquer comment le gouvernement prévoit de fournir des soins de santé pour plus de résidents, pour le nombre croissant de personnes âgées et pour d’autres traitements avec ces augmentations inadéquates au budget global de la santé?

Mr. Speaker, can the minister please explain how his government expects to provide health care for more residents, more seniors and more treatments with an inadequate budgetary increase to the global health care budget? Yes, we’re seeing an aging population and newer treatments. It’s not just about population growth; it’s about those increased costs as well.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Just to finish off on the residency spots, we felt it was prudent, through health resource modelling going forward, to make sure that we have an adequate number of physicians and specialists; that we look at this. So we’ve made a modest reduction of less than 5% in the number of spots because of what we’ve been told by our epidemiologists and actuaries—everything to take into account precisely what the member opposite is referring to.

But the point, Mr. Speaker, is that we are continuing to invest in our health care system. Our health care budget went up this year, as it did last year, as it will next year, including the physician services component. We’re also investing more in home care: $250 million more that will benefit, generally speaking, our senior population. We’re continuing to broaden the scope of our practice of our health care professionals so that they can do the hard work they do day in and day out, to make sure we’re providing that highest quality of care to our seniors and to all Ontarians.

Environmental protection

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is to the Minister of the Environment and Climate Change. The people of Hamilton are worried about a proposal to build a garbage gasification plant using unproven technology on Hamilton’s waterfront. Instead of a full environmental assessment, the risky project only had an environmental screening, a much weaker process intended only for “projects that have predictable environmental effects that can be readily mitigated.” That’s ministry language, Speaker.

A year ago, I asked the minister to ensure that Hamiltonians have a full environmental assessment, to assure them that that environmental assessment would take place. A year has passed and the minister is still waffling over whether to elevate the environmental screening to a full EA. When will this minister finally decide that an experimental project of this nature and scale requires a full environmental assessment?

Hon. Glen R. Murray: I appreciate the member from Hamilton Centre’s question. The law of Ontario—and I want to be very clear about this—does not allow, in the case of these types of bump-up requests, any involvement by the minister at all. These are director-level decisions, which I am prohibited from interfering in.

There was a huge volume of activity on this. The ministry received an overwhelming number of concerns articulated on that. I can’t prejudice the process by expressing my views on this particular issue, because the director ultimately reports to the deputy minister and I can’t interfere in that process.

I have been monitoring it very carefully, and I am assured by the ministry that they are near to making a decision on the bump-up request. I will do my job on behalf of this House to ensure that’s not politically interfered with and that proper adjudicated due process takes place.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: It is this government that watered down the requirements for an EA process on energy facilities. This company is gaming the system. They won’t apply for a licence as a waste facility because a waste facility actually requires a full EA but an energy facility does not require a full EA. So this minister does have a responsibility to the people of Hamilton to make sure that a full environmental assessment is taking place on this waste facility, Speaker, as it should be.

I want to say very clearly that Hamilton city council has asked for a bump up to a full EA. The neighbourhood people want a full EA. Environment Hamilton has asked for a full EA. I personally have asked the minister to bump this up to a full EA. The bottom line is that an independent study showed that the screening process is not adequate for this kind of facility. Will this minister step up to the plate as the Minister of the Environment and Climate Change and ensure that a full EA of this waste facility takes place in Hamilton?

Hon. Glen R. Murray: Mr. Speaker, I’ve been here for about five, six years, which probably puts me in the lower 25% of members with experience around here. I would expect that a member who’s been longer than I would know the basic law of this Legislature, which she and I have to uphold. What she’s asking me to do is legally impossible and illegal. If I went to try to bump up this request and interfere politically in the process—there is no legal basis for that. I’m accountable to the House to ensure that, as a minister of the crown, I support the law of the land.

As a member of this assembly, I am responsible for being familiar with the law. Does the NDP want ministers to break the law and politically interfere in independent adjudicated processes of the public service?

Sexual violence and harassment

Ms. Daiene Vernile: My question is for the minister responsible for women’s issues. Last night, I had the pleasure of attending the opening reception for It’s Never Okay: 2015 Summit on Sexual Violence and Harassment. Mr. Speaker, this was a remarkable event. I had an opportunity to meet with women and men who are working in the field of sexual violence, not only in Ontario but in fact from around the world. It was very encouraging to see colleagues there, including some members of the opposition who were there.

This summit was a commitment that was made in the sexual violence and harassment action plan, announced by the minister and the Premier in March of this year. Can the minister please inform this House of the goals of this summit?

Hon. Tracy MacCharles: I want to thank the member for the great question and for her hard work on the Select Committee on Sexual Violence and Harassment. I was pleased to be with her last night at the opening reception. I’m glad that she has connected with some familiar folks and some new contacts, as well, in this sector.

Speaker, there are well over 600 people at this summit, as we stand here today. They’re registered to attend the summit, including members of our Roundtable on Violence Against Women and our Joint Working Group on Violence against Aboriginal Women. It also includes, I’m pleased to say, our new federal Minister of Status of Women, the Honourable Patty Hajdu from Thunder Bay.

There are so many more presenters and panellists who are in Toronto for this summit. We have people from across the country and across our nation, including from Ireland and New Zealand. So everyone’s gathered together because they share a commitment to end—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Supplementary?

Ms. Daiene Vernile: I’d like to thank the minister for her answer and for her hard work and that of her staff in putting this summit together. This summit is an opportunity for people who are working in the sexual violence sector to collaborate and share best practices with their colleagues. It’s an important opportunity to hear about the innovative work that’s going on with these different organizations. I know that many of these groups and these individuals have appeared before the Select Committee on Sexual Violence and Harassment and shared compelling testimony with us. Can the minister please explain the outcomes that she hopes to hear from the summit?

Hon. Tracy MacCharles: Again, I want to thank the member for the question.

She’s right; having people together from across the sector to hear the latest research and best practices is an incredible opportunity. We’ve organized speakers and sessions on best practices to end sexual violence and harassment, and to support survivors in the best and most appropriate ways. When the summit is over tomorrow, Speaker, we’ll be positioned to continue the important work we’ve begun with the action plan, working even more closely with our partners in this sector.

I want to thank everybody who is attending the summit today and tomorrow. For those who were unable, there are webcasts going on simultaneously so people can access the summit. Main