British Columbia Hansard — Thursday, April 19, 2007 (38th Parliament, 3rd Session) (H0419pm-05) (H0419pm 05)

H0419pm-05

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session, 38th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Thursday, April 19, 2007 Afternoon Sitting Volume 18, Number 5 THE HONOURABLE BILL BARISOFF, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Iona V. Campagnolo, CM, OBC THIRD SESSION, 38TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Bill Barisoff EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................Hon. Gordon Campbell Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations .......................................................................................................... Hon.

John van Dongen Deputy Premier and Minister of Education and Minister Responsible for Early Learning and Literacy...................... Hon. Shirley Bond Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation ........................................................................................................ Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of Advanced Education and Minister Responsible for Research and Technology ........................................... Hon.

Murray Coell Minister of Agriculture and Lands.......................................................................................................................................................Hon. Pat Bell Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Multiculturalism............................................................................... Hon. Wally Oppal, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ................................................................................................................Hon.

Tom Christensen Minister of State for Childcare ........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Linda Reid Minister of Community Services and Minister Responsible for Seniors’ and Women’s Issues........................................... Hon. Ida Chong Minister of Economic Development and Minister Responsible for the Asia-Pacific Initiative and the Olympics.................Hon.

Colin Hansen Minister of Employment and Income Assistance ...........................................................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources .......................................................................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Minister of State for Mining......................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Kevin Krueger Minister of Environment and Minister Responsible for Water Stewardship and Sustainable Communities ...............Hon. Barry Penner Minister of Finance.......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Carole Taylor Minister of Forests and Range and Minister Responsible for Housing ............................................................................. Hon.

Rich Coleman Minister of Health ......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. George Abbott Minister of Labour and Citizens’ Services ......................................................................................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General................................................................................................................................Hon.

John Les Minister of Small Business and Revenue and Minister Responsible for Regulatory Reform............................................ Hon. Rick Thorpe Minister of Tourism, Sport and the Arts ......................................................................................................................................Hon. Stan Hagen Minister of State for ActNow B.C. ............................................................................................................................................ Hon.

Gordon Hogg Minister of Transportation...........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Kevin Falcon LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition .........................................................................................................................................................Carole James Deputy Speaker ....................................................................................................................................................................................Sindi Hawkins Assistant Deputy Speaker.....................................................................................................................................................................Sue Hammell Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole.................................................................................................................................................

Harry Bloy Clerk of the Legislative Assembly .........................................................................................................................E. George MacMinn, OBC, QC Clerk Assistant.........................................................................................................................................................................................Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk .......................................................................................................................................................Ian D.

Izard, QC Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees ....................................................................................................................................... Craig H. James Clerk Assistant and Committee Clerk ..........................................................................................................................................Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms............................................................................................................................................................................. A.A.

Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ...................................................................................................................................................................Jo-Anne Kern Legislative Librarian ..................................................................................................................................................................................Jane Taylor Legislative Comptroller...............................................................................................................................................................................Dan Arbic

Party Standings: Liberal 46; New Democratic 33 ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) .................................................................... Shuswap Austin, Robin (NDP)............................................................................. Skeena Bains, Harry (NDP).................................................................. Surrey-Newton Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)..........................................Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Hon.

Pat (L) .............................................................Prince George North Bennett, Bill (L) ........................................................................ East Kootenay Black, Iain (L) ............................................................ Port Moody–Westwood Bloy, Harry (L)................................................................................Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L).....................................Prince George–Mount Robson Brar, Jagrup (NDP).....................................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Campbell, Hon.

Gordon (L) .........................................Vancouver–Point Grey Cantelon, Ron (L)..............................................................Nanaimo-Parksville Chong, Hon. Ida (L) .................................................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ...........................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Christensen, Hon. Tom (L) ................................................. Okanagan-Vernon Chudnovsky, David (NDP) ......................................... Vancouver-Kensington Coell, Hon.

Murray (L) .....................................Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon. Rich (L)...........................................Fort Langley–Aldergrove Conroy, Katrine (NDP) .......................................... West Kootenay–Boundary Coons, Gary (NDP) ....................................................................... North Coast Cubberley, David (NDP)............................................................Saanich South de Jong, Hon.

Michael (L) ...................................Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Dix, Adrian (NDP) .........................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Evans, Corky (NDP).................................................................Nelson-Creston Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L) .......................................................

Surrey-Cloverdale Farnworth, Mike (NDP) ...............................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Fleming, Rob (NDP) ..............................................................Victoria-Hillside Fraser, Scott (NDP) ..............................................................Alberni-Qualicum Gentner, Guy (NDP).......................................................................Delta North Hagen, Hon. Stan (L) ................................................................ Comox Valley Hammell, Sue (NDP) ................................................... Surrey–Green Timbers Hansen, Hon.

Colin (L) ..................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Hawes, Randy (L).......................................................... Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Sindi (L) ............................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ................................................................ Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Hon.

Gordon (L).....................................................Surrey–White Rock Horgan, John (NDP)......................................................Malahat–Juan de Fuca Horning, Al (L)........................................................... Kelowna–Lake Country Ilich, Hon. Olga (L)...............................................................Richmond Centre James, Carole (NDP).......................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Jarvis, Daniel (L)..................................................

North Vancouver–Seymour Karagianis, Maurine (NDP) ........................................... Esquimalt-Metchosin Krog, Leonard (NDP)......................................................................... Nanaimo Krueger, Hon. Kevin (L) .....................................Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP)........................... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lali, Harry (NDP)........................................................................

Yale-Lillooet Lee, Richard T. (L)....................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L).............................................................. Peace River South Les, Hon. John (L)............................................................... Chilliwack-Sumas Macdonald, Norm (NDP).................................... Columbia River–Revelstoke MacKay, Dennis (L)....................................................

Bulkley Valley–Stikine Mayencourt, Lorne (L).......................................................Vancouver-Burrard McIntyre, Joan (L).................................................West Vancouver–Garibaldi Neufeld, Hon. Richard (L) .................................................. Peace River North Nuraney, John (L).............................................................Burnaby-Willingdon Oppal, Hon. Wally, QC (L).......................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Penner, Hon. Barry (L)...........................................................

Chilliwack-Kent Polak, Mary (L) ....................................................................................Langley Puchmayr, Chuck (NDP)...................................................... New Westminster Ralston, Bruce (NDP) ............................................................. Surrey-Whalley Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ................................................................ Richmond East Richmond, Hon. Claude (L).............................................................

Kamloops Robertson, Gregor (NDP) ................................................Vancouver-Fairview Roddick, Valerie (L).......................................................................Delta South Routley, Doug (NDP)..................................................... Cowichan-Ladysmith Rustad, John (L) ........................................................

Prince George–Omineca Sather, Michael (NDP).........................................Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ...................................Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Bob (NDP)..................................................................Cariboo North Simpson, Shane (NDP) ....................................................Vancouver-Hastings Sultan, Ralph (L) ....................................................West Vancouver–Capilano Taylor, Hon.

Carole (L).....................................................Vancouver-Langara Thorne, Diane (NDP) .................................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Thorpe, Hon. Rick (L).......................................................Okanagan-Westside Trevena, Claire (NDP) ..................................................................North Island van Dongen, Hon. John (L)............................................ Abbotsford-Clayburn Whittred, Katherine (L)........................................

North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wyse, Charlie (NDP) .................................................................Cariboo South Yap, John (L)...................................................................Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn....................................................Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman .......................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum..........................................................................

Scott Fraser Bulkley Valley–Stikine ...........................................................Dennis MacKay Burnaby North ...........................................................................Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds........................................................................Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Willingdon................................................................... John Nuraney Burquitlam.......................................................................................Harry Bloy Cariboo North..............................................................................

Bob Simpson Cariboo South..............................................................................Charlie Wyse Chilliwack-Kent ..................................................................Hon. Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas...................................................................... Hon. John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke................................................. Norm Macdonald Comox Valley........................................................................ Hon.

Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville..............................................................Diane Thorne Cowichan-Ladysmith ................................................................. Doug Routley Delta North ...................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South ............................................................................. Valerie Roddick East Kootenay................................................................................

Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin.........................................................Maurine Karagianis Fort Langley–Aldergrove ..................................................Hon. Rich Coleman Kamloops.....................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson ............................................Hon. Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country.................................................................. Al Horning Kelowna-Mission ......................................................................

Sindi Hawkins Langley ...........................................................................................Mary Polak Malahat–Juan de Fuca .................................................................. John Horgan Maple Ridge–Mission ................................................................ Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ..................................................... Michael Sather Nanaimo......................................................................................

Leonard Krog Nanaimo-Parksville .....................................................................Ron Cantelon Nelson-Creston .............................................................................Corky Evans New Westminster .................................................................. Chuck Puchmayr North Coast....................................................................................

Gary Coons North Island ...............................................................................Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale................................................Katherine Whittred North Vancouver–Seymour..........................................................Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head ........................................................... Hon. Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon......................................................... Hon. Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside..............................................................Hon.

Rick Thorpe Peace River North.......................................................... Hon. Richard Neufeld Peace River South..................................................................... Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley .................................................Hon. Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain ............................................Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Westwood.................................................................... Iain Black Powell River–Sunshine Coast ...............................................

Nicholas Simons Prince George North.................................................................... Hon. Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson ............................................Hon. Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca................................................................ John Rustad Richmond Centre......................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Richmond East........................................................................Hon.

Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston...........................................................................John Yap Saanich North and the Islands ............................................ Hon. Murray Coell Saanich South ........................................................................ David Cubberley Shuswap............................................................................Hon. George Abbott Skeena.......................................................................................... Robin Austin Surrey-Cloverdale............................................................... Hon.

Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers ................................................................Sue Hammell Surrey-Newton............................................................................... Harry Bains Surrey–Panorama Ridge.................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey-Tynehead ....................................................................... Dave S. Hayer Surrey-Whalley...........................................................................Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock ............................................................Hon.

Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard..............................................................Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview.............................................................Gregor Robertson Vancouver-Fraserview .................................................Hon.

Wally Oppal, QC Vancouver-Hastings .................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington.......................................................David Chudnovsky Vancouver-Kingsway ......................................................................Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara ........................................................... Hon. Carole Taylor Vancouver–Mount Pleasant........................................ Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey ................................................Hon.

Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena.........................................................Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill...................................................................

Carole James Victoria-Hillside ...........................................................................Rob Fleming West Kootenay–Boundary........................................................Katrine Conroy West Vancouver–Capilano...........................................................Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi ........................................................Joan McIntyre Yale-Lillooet..................................................................................... Harry Lali

CONTENTS Thursday, April 19, 2007 Afternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Introductions by Members ....................................................................................................... .............................................. 6921 Introduction and First Reading of Bills........................................................................................ ......................................... 6922 Adult Guardianship and Planning Statutes Amendment Act, 2007 (Bill 29) Hon. W. Oppal Labour and Citizens' Services Statutes Amendment Act, 2007 (Bill 25) Hon. O.

Ilich Health Statutes Amendment Act, 2007 (Bill 26) Hon. G. Abbott Statements (Standing Order 25B) .............................................................................................................................. ............. 6923 Burnaby Festival of Volunteers R. Lee Caring Place programs in Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows M. Sather Chinese Canadian Military Museum J. Yap Carveth and Hammond hockey brothers J. Horgan Friendship between seniors and students in Kelowna S. Hawkins Issues for working women C.

Trevena Oral Questions................................................................................................................. ......................................................... 6925 Response of Premier to MLA questions on actions of former Finance Deputy Minister H. Lali Hon. C. Taylor Terms of reference for KPMG investigation into actions of former Finance Deputy Minister L. Krog Hon. C. Taylor B. Ralston M. Farnworth R. Fleming Privacy Commissioner review of lobbying activities of Ken Dobell M. Karagianis Hon. W. Oppal Call for removal of Ken Dobell from 2010 Legacies Now board H. Bains Hon. S.

Hagen Funding for Buy B.C. program C. Evans Hon. C. Taylor Ambulance service in Chilcotin region C. Wyse Hon. G. Abbott Funding for child care in Vancouver C. Trevena Hon. L. Reid Point of Privilege............................................................................................................. ......................................................... 6930 M. Karagianis

Motions without Notice ......................................................................................................... ................................................. 6930 Powers and role of Crown Corporations Committee Powers and role of Finance and Government Services Committee Appointment of Special Committee to Review the Personal Information Protection Act Appointment of Special Committee to Appoint a Conflict-of-Interest Commissioner Hon.

M. de Jong Second Reading of Bills........................................................................................................ ................................................... 6931 Forests and Range Statutes Amendment Act, 2007 (Bill 18) Hon. R. Coleman B. Simpson Hon. R. Coleman Committee of Supply............................................................................................................ ................................................... 6936 Estimates: Ministry of Forests and Range and Minister Responsible for Housing (continued) Hon. R. Coleman B.

Simpson Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply............................................................................................................ ................................................... 6953 Estimates: Ministry of Advanced Education and Minister Responsible for Research and Technology (continued) Hon. M. Coell R. Fleming C. Wyse C. Trevena

6921 THURSDAY, APRIL 19, 2007 The House met at 1:34 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Introductions by Members J. Yap: I have number of introductions that I'm really honoured to make. Today I had lunch with a wonderful group of people. Many of them are veterans and friends and members of the Chinese Canadian Military Museum. Here with us today in the gallery are Lt.-Col. Howe Lee, who is with the 12 Service Battalion — the honorary colonel; Lt.- Col. George Ing, retired, who is a constituent of mine; and also veterans Alex Louie, Willie Chong, Bing Wong, Frank Wong, Ed Lee, Paul Tsui and Kelly Kwong.

From the veteran commu- n i t y i n V i c t o r i a a r e G o r die Quon, Andy Wong, Paul Chan and Hank Lowe. Accompanying them are Rosalyn Ing and Judy Maxwell — who, I might add, is a PhD student and his- torian and whose great-grandfather was one of the first Liberal federal cabinet ministers in the 1880s. Would the House please provide a warm greeting to these folks. [1335] Hon. C. Richmond: I have two introductions that I'm happy to make today. First is Dr. Terry Sullivan, visiting us from Kamloops. He's the superintendent of school district 73. On behalf of my colleague from Kamloops– North Thompson, Mr.

John Harwood, the chairman of the board, and members of his family are visiting us from Clearwater. Please make them welcome. Hon. I. Chong: Yesterday we had a number of guests from the UBCM executive. Today we are joined by even more who are here to watch question period. We have today Councillor Sharon Gaetz from Chilliwack, the UBCM director; Susie Gimse, Squamish-Lillooet regional district; and Erin Morrison, who is with UBCM staff. We also have UBCM executive member, past president of UBCM, Councillor Marvin Hunt from Surrey. As well, we have Mayor Joe Snopek from Creston.

I hope the House would please make them all very welcome. Hon. R. Thorpe: I would like to introduce Stephanie Cadieux, director of marketing and public relations for the British Columbia Paraplegic Association. Would the House please join me in welcoming Stephanie to the House. Hon. G.

Hogg: We're joined in the House today by two couples, one who lives just outside the precincts here and has not been here to visit, and a second cou- ple from Surrey–White Rock who have been longtime residents of the area and great contributors to the social and commercial environment of the area and have been negligent in not coming to this House previously. Would the House please welcome Larry and Maureen Hamblin and Pat and Steve Brown. Hon. T. Christensen: Today has been proclaimed child abuse prevention day here in British Columbia.

Over the noonhour we had an opportunity for a small event to launch two handbooks to assist professionals as well as the general public in identifying signs of child abuse or neglect and knowing what to do in terms of reporting those. We're joined today in th e gallery by number of people from different agencies who government works closely with in our communities on issues of abuse and neglect. I'd like the House to join me in welcoming these individuals. I'll just list them quickly. We have Theresa Campbell, who is manager of Safe Schools for the Surrey school district; as well as Insp.

John Charlton, the officer in charge of the detective division for the Saanich po lice; Annalynn Richardson, the president of Victoria Minor Hockey Association; and Rob Richardson, the vice president and head coach for Victoria Minor Hockey Association.

There's Adrienne Glen, who is with the child protection service unit at B.C.'s Children's Hospital; Suzanne Cole, youth and family services team leader with the Burnside Gorge Community Centre; Irene Rathbone, who is with public health nursing with the Vancouver Island Health Auth ority; as well as Susan Boyle, a public health nurs e with the Vancouver Island Health Authority. There's Paul Lecerte, who is the executive director of the B.C.

Association of Aboriginal Friendship Cen- tres; John Price, who is the public information officer with the Saanich police; as well as Barb Webber, the officer in charge with the Saanich police youth

section and child abuse team. Finall y, there's Ron McQuarrie, the past president of the Saanich Lacrosse Association. Each of the individuals, in the work that they do each day, works with children and youth and assists all o f u s i n e n s u r i n g t h a t c hildren and youth are not ex- periencing abuse or neglect in the province of British Columbia. I'd ask the House to please make them all very welcome to the House today. J. McIntyre: I just wanted to add my voice of wel- come to Susie Gimse who, as the Minister of Commu- nity Services mentioned, was part of the UBCM delega- tion here in Victoria today.

But Susie is an electoral area C rep in the Squamish -Lillooet regional district and a constituent of mine in Birken. I would ask the House again to welcome Susie Gimse. A. Horning: Visiting us today from Kelowna is school trustee Wayne Horning and his wife Pat. I nor- mally refer to Wayne as my little brother. Would you please make them welcome. [1340] C.

Wyse: Likewise, I would like to add my wel- come to the representatives from the UBCM and also acknowledge the breakfast that they put on for us this morning and recognize the service that the people from the UBCM and the people they represent provide for the people of British Columbia.

6922 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, APRIL 19, 2007 Introduction and First Reading of Bills ADULT GUARDIANSHIP AND PLANNING STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT, 2007 Hon. W. Oppal presented a message from Her Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Adult Guardian- ship and Planning Statutes Amendment Act, 2007. Hon. W. Oppal: Hon. Speaker, I move that the bill be introduced and read a first time now. Motion approved. Hon. W. Oppal: I'm pleased to introduce Bill 29, Adult Guardianship and Pl anning Statutes Amend- ment Act, 2007.

The planning for future incapacity and ensuring that an effective safety net exists for incapable adults is extremely importan t. It's becoming increas- ingly important with our aging population. Bill 29 clarifies and modernizes the laws governing how decisions are made for adults who are incapable of making decisions on their own. It will increase cer- tainty and protection for ad ults when they are most vulnerable. Bill 29 will ensure that British Columbians have the best tools possible for making effective inca- pacity plans in the areas of health care, personal care and financial and legal affairs.

Bill 29 will also amend the Adult Guardianship Act to replace the Patients Property Act and reflect upon modern guardianship princi ples of individual auton- omy and dignity. It will also provide appropriate pro- tections for our aging population. Last spring we introduced legislation similar to Bill 29. That legislation did not proceed, in order to allow additional work to be done related to advanced care directives.

Further consultation has occurred over the past year — both broad public consultations and fo- cused discussions with different groups and stake- holders — and this bill has benefited greatly from the input of many individuals and organizations. Hon. Speaker, I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 29, Adult Guardiansh ip and Planning Stat- utes Amendment Act, 2007, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

LABOUR AND CITIZENS' SERVICES STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT, 2007 Hon. O. Ilich presented a message from Her Hon- our the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Labour and Citizens' Services Statutes Amendment Act, 2007. Hon. O. Ilich: I move that Bill 25 be introduced and read now for a first time. Motion approved. Hon. O. Ilich: Bill 25 amends the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act and the Labour Relations Code as well as the Workers Com- pensation Act.

The amendments to the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act address recommenda- tions of the special committee that reviewed the act and include a number of othe r changes and amendments that will clarify and update certain provisions. The amendments will enhance privacy protection and strengthen the act by improving disclosure processes and improving consistencies in the act. The amend- ments continue government's tradition of enhancing the FOIPPA Act — the privacy and access provisions thereof — to ensure that it remains the strongest legis- lation of its kind in Canada.

The change to the Work ers Compensation Act pro- vides that workers advisers and employers advisers will be appointed as employees of the Ministry of La- bour and Citizens' Services under the Public Service Act rather than by order-in-council. [1345] The change to the Labour Relations Code intro- duces a new requirement for the Labour Relations Board to make decisions on complaints or applications within time periods prescr ibed by regulation.

This proposed amendment responds to concerns about LRB time lines that businesses, unions and employees have raised and will provide better accountability and im- proved service. Hon. Speaker, I move that Bill 25 be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 25, Labour and Citizens' Services Statutes Amendment Act, 2007, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. HEALTH STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT, 2007 Hon. G.

Abbott presente d a message from Her Hon- our the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Health Statutes Amendment Act, 2007. Hon. G. Abbott: I move that Bill 26, entitled Health Statutes Amendment Act, 2007, be introduced and read for a first time now. Motion approved. Hon. G. Abbott: I'm very pleased to introduce this bill today. The Health Stat utes Amendment Act, 2007, will amend three separate acts.

First is the Health Care (Consent) and Care Facility (Admission) Act — to pro- vide clear direction on the admission procedure and continued residence of adults in care facilities; apply the definition of a care facility to a broader range of facilities; provide protection for individuals and their

THURSDAY, APRIL 19, 2007 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 6923 families with a provincial standard guiding the admis- sion or release of individuals in residential care facili- ties; and finally, in respect of this act, to provide a safe and clear framework to support care facilities, health authorities and individuals to make better choices in long-term care. As well, the Health Emergency Act will be amended to transfer the B.C. Health Guide program to the Emer- gency Health Services Commission to expand and strengthen the scope of its health information services.

These amalgamated services will be called health line services B.C. and will better enhance and expand pre- hospital care, self-care and health system navigation service in the future. Under a single commission these linkages will continue in areas like patient transfers and referrals of non-emergency 911 calls.

Finally, the Health Stat utes Amendment Act, 2007, will amend the Pharmacists, Pharmacy Operations and Drug Scheduling Act to allo w electronic prescriptions to be recorded in the province's PharmaNet System and provide a new level of accountability to British Columbians' personal health information through the future provision for authorized on-line patient access to their own medication profile and access log. This will clarify the types of information that must be recorded within PharmaNet. It will add new types of information that may be recorded within PharmaNet, such as over-the-counter medication.

The changes we're intr oducing today will also mandate how information can be used and will facili- tate electronic prescribing through PharmaNet and direct patient access to Phar maNet. It will also add the sharing of information within PharmaNet with health information banks under the Health Act. Overall, the amendments support the de velopment of the prov- ince's ambitious e-health initiatives. I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill 26, Health Statutes Amendment Act, 2007, in- troduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Statements (Standing Order 25

B) BURNABY FESTIVAL OF VOLUNTEERS R. Lee: This is our country's National Volunteer Week to honour and recognize our hard-working citi- zens who donate energy and time to their communi- ties. This Saturday the four th Burnaby Festival of Volunteers will be held in Metrotown from 1 p.m. to 9 p.m. Many non-profit organizations will be displaying their services as well as getting opportunities to recruit volunteers. As founding co-chair of this festival, I would like to invite all members of this House to this special event.

You'll be entertained by a Bengal dance performance by Kanchan Lal; traditional Chinese dance by members of the Chen Ling Academy of Dance; the North Bur- naby Retired Seniors Societ y; a youth orchestra by Kabok Strings and guitar so lo by Kabok Guitar; and a kung fu performance by Dan Kun. You don't want to miss the opportunity to take

part in the hip-hop dance with Dianna David. [1350] Many groups have registered for this special day, including the Burnaby Asso ciation for Community In- clusion, Big Brothers of Greater Vancouver, Big Sisters of B.C.

Lower Mainland, Boys and Girls Clubs of Canada, Burnaby Community Connec tions, Burnaby Hospice Society, Burnaby Metrotown Rotary, Burnaby Seniors Outreach Services Society, Burnaby village museum, Canadian National Institute for the Blind, Centre cul- turel francophone de Vancouver, Down Syndrome Re- search Foundation, Girl Guides of Canada, Seton Villa, South Burnaby Neighbourhood House, Sunshine Dream for Kids, TB Vets Charitable Foundation, Urban Native Youth Association, Vancouve r International Children's Festival, Vancouver Grandparents and Volunteers Now.

I would like the House to join me in thanking the sponsors and the organizing committee members: Lee Faurot, Oscar Cruz, Amy Sundberg, John Renko, Ken Ryan, Cynthia Hendrix, Patrick Ng, Judy Chu and vol- unteers Jane Leah and students from the Alpha Secon- dary School for their time and energy to make this Burnaby Festival of Volunteers a success. CARING PLACE PROGRAMS IN MAPLE RIDGE–PITT MEADOWS M. Sather: The Caring Place has been a dedicated service provider in Maple Ridge and Pitt Meadows for many years. Under the auspic es of the Salvation Army and with the guidance of Ca pt.

Kathy Chiu, the Caring Place serves the needs of those struggling in their lives for a variety of reasons. Th e Caring Place runs an 18- plus-bed emergency shelter where people can stay for one to three weeks during tr ansitional periods. They offer 30 additional cold-wet weather mats, which oper- ated at 100-percent capacity this winter. With an additional 19 tr ansitional housing beds, people are able to live at the Caring Place for up to three years, where they receive counselling and par- ticipate in life skills programs through the healthy liv- ing program.

Six of these be ds are reserved for those with mental health and addi ctions issues. By working with partners in mental he alth and other local service groups, individuals are provid ed the services they re- quire. With an excellent client advocacy service, many people have entered drug and alcohol treatment and found safer accommodation. The community meal program at the centre offers dignity to individuals who are hungry in our commu- nity by allowing them to come in, sit down and be served a meal. The community meal program serves over 6,000 meals a month.

The dedicated staff at the Caring Place work tire- lessly to meet the needs of those struggling in our

6924 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, APRIL 19, 2007 communities. Their priority is to restore the dignity and self-respect of every person who enters their facil- ity. Staff want clients to know that someone cares. The work of the Caring Place reminds us all that more is needed in order to provide housing and health care for our most vulnerable citizens. CHINESE CANADIAN MILITARY MUSEUM J. Yap: Today I rise to speak about a very important cultural institution in British Columbia, the Chinese Ca- nadian Military Museum.

A non-profit organization since 1998, the museum is located in the heart of Van- couver's Chinatown. Howe Lee, the president and foun- der, had a vision to preserve , collect and bring to light the artifacts and memorabilia and, most importantly, the stories of the Chinese Canadi an veterans that risked their lives in order to serve Canada during World War II, despite the blatant racism and indignities they faced at the time.

When war began in Europe in 1939, there was de- bate within the Chinese Canadian community as to whether or not they should participate and fight for a country that they felt treate d them as second-class citi- zens. Even as many voluntee red, most were rejected because of their ethnicity. Bu t all of that changed when Japan entered the war, and many were recruited to help with undercover operations in Asia. Soon the Ca- nadian military had Chinese Canadians serving in all areas of operations, fighting not only for freedom but for equality in their country.

At the war's end over 600 Chinese Canadians served, making them the largest ethnic group to serve the Cana- dian military. On returning home from war, many Chi- nese Canadians felt they had proven their loyalty and allegiance to Canada. Many in the community felt they had achieved their goal through the contributions to the war effort and gained the respect they had deserved for years.

This new-found respect ultimately led to the pro- vision of full rights of citizenship to Chinese Canadians with the repealing of the exclusion act by Canada's par- liament in 1947. [1355] Under the guidance of Howe Lee and museum curator Larry Wong, the Chinese Canadian Military Museum proudly displays the stories of courage, sacri- fice and patriotism of those who chose to fight for their country, Canada. I encourage everyone to visit the mu- seum and learn about a widely unknown part of Can- ada's military history. CARVETH AND HAMMOND HOCKEY BROTHERS J.

Horgan: As we prepare to watch the Sedin broth- ers play hockey this evening, I want to advise the House about two brother combos in my constituency, both championship families. The first family is the Hammond family, and brothers Mike and Gary, who were on the Junior B provin cial championship Victoria Cougars this is past spring. Both young men I've watched grow from children into not just good hockey players but outstanding individuals. The second family is the Carveth family, again on the Junior B championship Cougars.

Karl Carveth fin- ished with an MVP performa nce in the championship this spring held at Esquimal t's Archie Browning arena. Karl finished his junior career filling the net, just as he did when he started. The last brother. Although it's unique to have broth- ers on the same team winni ng championships, in the case of the Carveths we have two brothers on two differ- ent championship teams.

The second brother, Ryan — or Fuzzy, as I've been calling him since he was about eight years old — was an integral part of the midget triple-A Juan de Fuca Grizzlies, pr ovincial champions who, as they did in every tournament they played in, rolled over the provincial competition in Kelowna this past spring. I have to just remind those who are watching at home, and in particular the Carveth family, that when I first had the occasion to be with Fuzzy, he was an eight- year-old skinny kid standing at the doorway ready to go on the floor for a Canadian championship game.

He said: "Coach, my legs are shaking too much. I don't think that I can even skate." I remember picking him up by the shoulder pads, putting him on the floor and pushing him out and saying: "You'll be fine." Well, he was fine then, and he's certainly fine now. So would the House please join me and join the fami- lies in Langford, the Carveths and the Hammonds, and congratulate B.C. champions in Malahat–Juan de Fuca. FRIENDSHIP BETWEEN SENIORS AND STUDENTS IN KELOWNA S.

Hawkins: Today I want to share with you a story about a friendship which developed into an award- winning love affair — a story I heard last Thursday night in Kelowna. It started about a year ago when a group of young people vandalized a seniors' residence in Kelowna. The seniors of Fernbrae Manor were understandably quite upset at this frightening and senseless act and decided to do something unique. They sent a letter to local schools in the area to appeal to the kids and help them to understand the consequences of such

an act as van- dalism in an effort to help them with ideas in how to prevent it from happening again. They got only one response, but it was the best one they could have asked for. The students from Quigley Elemen- tary School wanted to hear and learn from the seniors. A beautiful, loving friendship blossomed over the past year. The students came to Fernbrae Manor, and they read books and played musi c and did fun activities with the seniors. They deve loped a mutually beneficial friendship.

It proved so successful for both the kids and the seniors that both groups decided to adopt each other and make more of a long-term commitment. The plan is to continue this relationship with a new class partnering with Fernbrae Manor each year. Last Thursday Quigley El ementary School and the seniors of Fernbrae Manor were honoured at the an-

THURSDAY, APRIL 19, 2007 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 6925 nual Kelowna civic awards. They received the Anita Tozer memorial award, an award given in recognition of outstanding community service. The love and care both groups shared for each other was very much evident. The kids of Quigley Elementary want to encourage other schools to do the same, and I see students in the gallery. Those kids learned the lesson of caring, kind- ness and mutual respect from our seniors. What a great lesson to pass on. I want this House to honour those students and those seniors for setting such a great ex- ample for all of us.

ISSUES FOR WORKING WOMEN C. Trevena: Recently I hosted a meeting for women in business in Campbell River. We did the usual round of introductions and expectat ions. I think a number of the participants were uncertain what they would get out of the afternoon discussion. I'd like to give the House a flavour of the broad cross-

section of women who attended. We had one who runs a multimedia business; one in her late 60s who started a catering company. Another publishes a news and adver- tising flyer. One runs a va cation rental business. One works in the aquaculture industry. One's a realtor. [1400] As the afternoon moved on and debate evolved, some common themes emerged. I wanted to share these with the House. One was child care. This was a disparate and non-partisan group that quickly discov- ered this common concern. One woman was able to juggle care because she works from home and her hus- band works weekends.

Another spoke of a number of women at her workplace sharing one child care space. Another talked of the in volvement that businesses could have in providing child care for their workers. Waiting lists for child care and after-school care in Campbell River are long, as they are in other communi- ties, and these women connected the dots between the lack of access to child care and economic problems. Women simply couldn't go to work because of a lack of child care. The other theme which emerged was particularly troubling in the 21st century. It's a theme I've heard from women elsewhere.

It is the financial, both access to financing and the value placed on women's work. Women at the table, these businesswomen, told me how there is still an expectation that they need to have a man, their husband, cosign a loan. Women speak knowingly of undervaluing their own work, charging less than a man would because it's what they believe will be accepted. This is despite the fact that women own and operate 35 percent of small businesses in B.C. Introductions by Members C. Evans: Mr. Speaker, I didn't want to be the sev- enth….

I don't know if you noticed that while this was going on over the last ten minutes, there was all kinds of gossip because people noticed that the formerly hon. Lois Boone entered the room. Lois Boone — who could, of course, sit down here with us — is upstairs there with her husband Fred. I want everybody to make her welcome. Welcome back. Oral Questions RESPONSE OF PREMIER TO MLA QUESTIONS ON ACTIONS OF FORMER FINANCE DEPUTY MINISTER H. Lali: Last November I wrote to the Premier ask- ing important questions regarding his former Deputy Minister of Finance and lobby ists connected to the B.C. Liberal Party.

This serious situation brings into ques- tion the relationship betw een Mr. Paul Taylor, the Premier's handpicked former D e p u t y M i n i s t e r o f F i - nance, and principals at Pilothouse. A very similar pattern is before the courts right now, so I would have thought that the Premier would have been extra cautious. But the Premier dismissed my concerns and waited until the story ran in the Globe and Mail to investigate the very questions I brought to his attention five months earlier. My question is to the Minister of Finance.

Why did the Premier and his deputy not immediately investi- gate this serious situation? Hon. C. Taylor: Ten days before the Globe and Mail

article did appear, the Prem ier and the Deputy Minis- ter to the Premier were made aware of this particular e- mail. Immediately, the deputy minister did a review, found nothing wrong, but wi th extra caution decided to go to an outside firm, KPMG, and asked them to do a full review of the situation. When that review is com- pleted, it will be made available after it's been checked for FOI issues. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. H.

Lali: Over five months went by between the time when I first raised these questions and the time when Jessica McDonald started her internal investiga- tion into the relationship between the Premier's pal Mr. Taylor and Pilothouse. Again to the Minister of Finance: during that time did the Premier's office have any communication with Mr. Taylor regarding his rela tionship with Pilothouse or with the New Car Dealers Association of British Columbia? Hon. C. Taylor: Again, ten days before the Globe and Mail

article was when the Premier and the Deputy Minister to the Premier received a copy of this e-mail and the information that was included, and it led to the review which is now being conducted. Mr. Speaker: The member has a further supple- mental.

6926 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, APRIL 19, 2007 H. Lali: I just want the minister to put on the record again…. When I first wrote to the Premier, he hadn't even bothered to actually l ook into my questions. He brushed them off, actually . Since then, the Premier's deputy has conducted, as the minister says, an internal investigation. So it would seem like the government could now provide the answers. Again to the Finance Minister — my question is simple: will the government release the results of the McDonald investigation as well? [1405] Hon. C. Taylor: The review is now being done by KPMG.

As soon as it's completed — and obviously all of us would like it to be sooner rather than later — and goes through the FOI process, all of this information will be available in public. TERMS OF REFERENCE FOR KPMG INVESTIGATION INTO ACTIONS OF FORMER FINANCE DEPUTY MINISTER L. Krog: Yesterday we learned for the first time that the government has asked a fi rm with ties to the B.C. Liberal Party to investigate the dealings of the former Deputy Minister of Finance, now the chair of ICBC, Paul Taylor. My question to the Minister of Finance is very sim- ple.

Will the minister release the terms of reference for the KPMG investigation? Hon. C. Taylor: When this review is completed — and, again, we do hope that it will be fairly soon — we will release all of the information, including the terms of reference. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. L. Krog: Glen Ringdal, the vice-president of govern- ment relations for the New Car Dealers, told the Globe and Mail that he and Pilothouse principals lobbied Paul Taylor and Finance officials. However, this was never registered with the lobbyist registry.

My question to the Minister of Finance — very sim- ple once again: do the terms of reference for the KPMG investigation include reviewing possible offences under the Lobbyists Registration Act? Hon. C. Taylor: This is a serious situation, and that's why we're doing a review. That is also why in fact a reputable firm like KPMG has been asked to come in as an independent outside party to look it. They have the broad authority to look at all the issues that this e-mail raises. B. Ralston: I suggest it's not good enough to say that the terms of reference will be revealed later on.

Without knowing the terms of reference of the KPMG study right now, how can British Columbians be confi- dent that this investigation will be broad enough to get at the truth? Pilothouse was a New Car Dealers lobbyist while Mr. Taylor was deputy to Gary Collins at Finance. Per- haps KPMG has been asked to investigate all of Pilot- house's lobbying activities and Mr. Taylor's involve- ment within the Ministry of Finance. The New Car Dealers have interests that involve ICBC. Perhaps KPMG has been asked to investigate lobbying activities at ICBC.

Will the minister table in this House the terms of reference for the KPMG investigation so British Co- lumbians can be confident that this investigation isn't part of a cover-up? Hon. C. Taylor: The entire point of having a third party that is reputable conduct this investigation is because their reputation, as well as government's repu- tation, is on the line that this be done properly. The proof will be that all of the information, after it's gone through FOI, will be released. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. B. Ralston: Well, all we know at this point is that KPMG is investigating.

If the minister won't tell us at this point what the terms of reference are, perhaps she can tell us which branch of KPMG is doing the investi- gations. Maybe it's the forensics investigation branch, which looks into allegations of fraud and misconduct. On their website they promise: "Our investigations service can help you (1) get control of a situation that may appear to be out of control and (2) find a way to limit damage." [Laughter.] Can the minister tell me which arm of KPMG is conducting the investigation into Mr. Taylor's dealings with Pilothouse? [1410] Hon. C.

Taylor: I think it's unfortunate that the members opposite think this is funny. It's not funny. We're not laughing, and we're not making fun of the company that has been chosen, KPMG, which has an incredible reputation in this community and elsewhere. We have asked this firm to do a full review of all the implications that are contained in that e-mail. M. Farnworth: Hon. Speaker, I can assure the min- ister that we take this very seriously. What we want to know and want the minister to tell this House is: what justification can she give for not tabling or not releasing those terms of reference today? Hon. C.

Taylor: I will just simply repeat this as many times as it takes. This is an important issue. It came to the attention of the Premier and the Deputy Minister to the Premier ten days before the Globe and Mail article. The Deputy Minister to th e Premier looked at this and found no reason to ha ve concern about the issue but thought that for the interest of all British Columbi- a n s i t w o u l d b e o f b e n e f i t t o h a v e a t h i r d p a r t y — an independent party, a reputable firm — conduct an

THURSDAY, APRIL 19, 2007 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 6927 investigation as well. This firm has been asked to look at all of the broad implications of this e-mail. When the review comes forward after it's gone through FOI, that plus all of the supporting materials you had mentioned — for instance, the terms of refer- ence, if there are terms of reference — will be available to the government. Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. M. Farnworth: This is serious, and we will ask the question again. Why will the minister not release the terms of reference? The pub lic deserves to know.

If they're so concerned about openness and transparency, then release those terms of reference today. Hon. C. Taylor: Hon. Speaker, all of the relevant in- formation will be made available after it's gone through the FOI process, as soon as the review is complete. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. R. Fleming: Mr. Speaker, based on previous exam- ples, after going through the Liberal FOI process, this shouldn't be a very engaging read. That's what we're worried about here today. Again, the scope of the terms of reference is very im portant. Will the minister table those in the House today? Hon. C.

Taylor: All of the terms of reference and information that come from this review, which is being conducted by an outside independent party, will be released once it's been through the FOI process. Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. R. Fleming: Well, I'm not sure what the govern- ment is afraid of now, because they're saying that they take this matter very seriously and that they don't want to deceive the public. Can they tell us: do the terms of reference in fact exist? Maybe that's the question that we can ask now. The minister has been asked over and over again to table the terms of reference for KPMG.

Will she do it today, and will she confirm that KPMG has the terms of reference? Hon. C. Taylor: The people of British Columbia elected us to do the business of this province. Anyone who is listening to the same question being asked over and over again, and to the same answer being given over and over again, must be thinking: aren't there some other issues that really have to be addressed in question period? I will say that ten days before the Globe and Mail

article appeared, the Premie r and the Deputy Minister to the Premier received this e-mail. The Deputy Minis- ter to the Premier did a review and found nothing in- correct, but to be extra sure called in an outside firm — a reputable firm, KPMG — and asked them to do a broad review of the implications of this e-mail. When that review is completed, then it will be re- leased along with the requirement for any information on terms of reference or inst ructions to KPMG as soon as it has been through the FOI process. [1415] PRIVACY COMMISSIONER REVIEW OF LOBBYING ACTIVITIES OF KEN DOBELL M.

Karagianis: Well, I can assure the minister that w e i n f a c t d o h a v e s o m e v e r y i m p o r t a n t o t h e r q u e s - tions to ask. Yesterday the Attorney General stood here in the House and professed profound knowledge of the lob- byist registry act. But it tu rns out he was wrong again. The Privacy Commissioner's office later confirmed that they had no authority and th at there was no authority in the legislation to investigate Ken Dobell or move forward with charges on that. Today we've learned that the Attorney General has asked the commissioner to launch a fact-finding review into Mr.

Dobell's lobbyist activities. We also learned that the Attorney General asked Mr. Dobell's permis- sion to do the investigation. My question is to the Attorney General. Will he commit today to table the review, unsevered, in this House as soon as it's finished? Or will he have to ask for Mr. Dobell's permission to do that as well? Hon. W. Oppal: To correct the member opposite, I did not ask Mr. Dobell to take

part in the process. I would appreciate if the member opposite could get her facts right and do some research. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. W. Oppal: I know that research is a nasty word across the way, but I'll set the record straight. We had a conversation with the Privacy Commissioner, and I've been informed by the registrar that he will conduct a fact-finding review pursuant to his obliga- tions under the act — that he's prepared to do that. He also advised me that he contacted Mr. Dobell, and Mr. Dobell is prepared to cooperate with him. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members.

The member has a supplemental. M. Karagianis: My question was actually whether or not the Attorney General would commit today to table the fact-finding report when it's finished, un- severed, in this House. Or will he just continue to pro- tect the Premier's friends? Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members.

6928 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, APRIL 19, 2007 Hon. W. Oppal: The last time I looked, the Privacy Commissioner was an officer of the Legislature. CALL FOR REMOVAL OF KEN DOBELL FROM 2010 LEGACIES NOW BOARD H. Bains: The budget for the Vancouver Conven- tion Centre boondoggle under the direction of Mr. Ken Dobell has skyrocketed — using the minister's own accounting system — to the range of over $800 million. Last Friday the government quietly shuffled Mr. Dobell out of the position as chair of the project.

Can the minister confirm that Ken Dobell will be removed from the 2010 Legacies Now board, a position that Mr. Dobell held by virtue of chairing the board of the Trade and Convention Centre? If not, why not? Hon. S. Hagen: For some reason it feels like Groundhog Day. You know…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. [1420] Hon. S. Hagen: What the NDP sees as a project that they don't like, we see as a project that we like. We think that it's a world-class project. We think it's a pro- ject that is going to draw hundreds of millions of dol- lars of economic activity into this province.

We see it as a project where there are 7,00 0 working people on that site right through the duration. We see it as a project that's going to generate 6,000 new jobs in this province. You know, the NDP can dislike this project all they want, but the fact is that it's going to be completed. It's going to draw hundreds of millions of dollars into this province, and it's going to be a success. Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. H. Bains: I think it is Groundhog Day, because when this minister stands up, it means no answer for six more weeks. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. H.

Bains: The convention centre is already double the cost that was promised by this government — a promise made by this minister, the minister before him, the minister before him and the Premier. Can the min- ister tell us today: when will he stop protecting the friends of the Premier, Mr. Dobell, and come to the aid of the taxpayers and turf Mr. Dobell? Hon. S. Hagen: Mr. Dobell has had a long and dis- tinguished career in the pub lic service of this province. You know, when I hear these speculations and allega- tions, they're totally inappropriate — certainly until the facts are known.

I think that any further attempts at character assas- sination of this public servant or any other public ser- vant are not only a disgrace to this House but also a disgrace to every public servant who works for this province. FUNDING FOR BUY B.C. PROGRAM C. Evans: Members on this side might be kind of unhappy to learn that I kind of like it when the Minis- ter of Tourism gets up and says that we spend money t o m a k e j o b s a n d h e l p b u s i n e s s . I t w a s n ' t a l w a y s t h a t way, hon. Speaker.

In 2002 the government announced that it was end- ing funding for job creation and what it used to call sub- sidies to business. In rural B.C. where I live, this meant an ending of the funding fo r the program of Buy B.C., which was the branding program that had helped to identify B.C. food in the marketplace. The Buy B.C. pro- gram had cost the government two million bucks a year. According to the Investment Agriculture Foundation, it had made 1,900 new jobs in rural British Columbia.

Now we've just spent a whole week listening to the minister tell us that his $400 million cost overrun is justified because it makes jobs and it's good for busi- ness. Let's assume for a minu te that we accept his ar- gument. Investment Agriculture says that Buy B.C., too, made jobs and was good for business. With his cost overrun alone at the convention centre, we could have run Buy B.C. for 200 years, making jobs… Mr. Speaker: Can the member put the question, please. C. Evans: …and good for business. My question is for the Minister of Finance.

Now that the policies appear to have turned around and we spend money to encourage business, will she restore funding to the highly successful Buy B.C. branding program for rural B.C.? Or does the new policy of as- sisting business and making jobs only apply to the town in which she and the Premier happen to live? [1425] Hon. C. Taylor: I can't believe that I've been given this opportunity to talk about our relationship with the economy, what we've done for the economy, what we believe…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Minister, would you sit down. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members.

Minister, continue. Hon. C. Taylor: Indeed, when the B.C. Liberals came into government, we were in a situation with the

THURSDAY, APRIL 19, 2007 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 6929 economy in this province that was really negative. We had a high corporate tax rate — 16.5 percent. We had the highest marginal tax rate for personal income tax in the '90s of any place in Canada. We were losing people, we were losing businesses, and unfortunately, we lost head offices that will never come back.

As a result of the turnaround which this government has brought by reducing the corporate tax rate from 16½ percent to 12 percent, by increasing the threshold for small business owners from $200,000, first of all, to $300,000 and then to $400,000, we have made it better for small business to work in B.C. We have the lowest unemployment in 30 years at 3.9 percent. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Continue, Minister. Hon. C.

Taylor: As a result, what we do every sin- gle year — and I will include the suggestion from the member opposite — is consider every option that we have going forward, looking at ways to help business in B.C. and help the economy. AMBULANCE SERVICE IN CHILCOTIN REGION C. Wyse: Near Alexis Creek last Saturday a 16-year- old girl was shot through th e shoulder and the lungs. The nearest ambulance station, Alexis Creek, happened to be closed. Once more, so everyone understands the situation, the Alexis Creek paramedic station is scheduled to be closed 15 days in the month of April.

It requires more than an hour added travel time to go from Williams Lake to pro- vide service to this woman who required that care. The minister has been aware of the effect of the closures upon the Chilcotin for at least two years since I've been here. My question to the minister: today will he confirm for the people of the Chilcotin that the Alexis Creek station and the Anahim Lake station will now be open on a regular basis to provide services to those residents of British Columbia? Hon. G. Abbott: Ambulance service is extremely important to this government.

We place the highest priority on having quality ambulance service and timely ambulance service across the province. I'm pleased to note that response times in both rural and urban areas have been good. It can be a challenge in some rural, remote locations like Alexis Creek at times, but even in those locations we have seen improved response times.

In terms of the ongoing ch allenge of out-of-service hours in the Alexis Creek am bulance station, I do first of all want to acknowledge that as a rural and remote station it does have challenges at times securing para- medics to provide service. [1430] We have made progress in that regard. I want to note, for example, comparing September of 2001 with September of 2006…. In 2001, 324 hours out of service at Alexis Creek. That was 45 percent of the time. In 2006 it had been improved to 121 hours, or 17 percent of the time. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Member has a supplemental. C.

Wyse: No more time for rhetoric; no more time for excuses. This accident took place on first nations reserve. The chiefs of the Tsilhqot'in National Govern- ment have written requesti ng and bringing their con- cerns to the minister's attention. Once more I request to the minister: when will the people of Chilcotin be provided with the needed am- b u l a n c e c a r e s e r v i c e s s o t h e y d o n o t h a v e t o w a i t f o r hours for additional service to be provided for them? Hon. G. Abbott: We place the highest priority on ambulance service not only in the Chilcotin but right across British Columbia.

That is why we have seen over the past five years the budget for the Ambulance Service move from $176 million to $276 million. We've seen the number of ambulances in the province move from 463 to 503. That's why we see hundreds more ambulance paramedics in this province than there have ever been before. We have a record number of ambulances, sta- tions and paramedics in this province — more than ever before in the history of British Columbia. That is why… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. G. Abbott: … I ' d b e h a p p y t o s h a r e t h i s l i s t with the member.

If you look at virtually any interior rural B.C. community, you will see substantial im- provements approximating 20 to 25 percent improve- ment in ambulance service across this province. FUNDING FOR CHILD CARE IN VANCOUVER C. Trevena: The impacts of cuts to child care are starting to be felt by commu nities around the province. Ten neighbourhood resource centres in Vancouver alone are shutting, and the st aff is going to drop from 11 to four. The provincial service, west coast, can't backfill, because it's lost all of its $800,000 funding.

I would like to ask the Minister of State for Child- care to explain how one site operating with four staff can assist the more than 68,000 children and families in Vancouver dependent upon it. Hon. L. Reid: I am more than happy to take this opportunity to talk about the child care gains in British

6930 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, APRIL 19, 2007 Columbia, of which there are many. The budget in Brit- ish Columbia for child care in this previous year is $203 million. I am happy to tell this House that the spending will likely exceed $260 million in this coming year. This government has placed an incredible priority on children who require specialized supports, on fami- lies who require subsidy and on spaces in British Co- lumbia. That vision is clear. We are going forward.

We are delivering the best possible child care programs to the province of British Columbia. [End of question period.] Point of Privilege M. Karagianis: H o n . S p e a k e r , I r i s e t o r e s e r v e m y right to raise a question of privilege with regard to com- ments made by the Attorney General today in this House. Hon. M. de Jong: B y l e a v e , I m o v e f o u r m o t i o n s relating to the charging of select standing committees and special committees. I've taken the liberty of provid- ing my friend the Opposition House Leader with cop- ies of the motions. Leave granted.

Motions without Notice POWERS AND ROLE OF CROWN CORPORATIONS COMMITTEE Hon. M. de Jong: The first. By leave, I move: [That the Select Standing Committee on Crown Cor- porations be appointed to review the annual reports and service plans of Brit ish Columbia Crown Corpo- rations. In addition to the powers previously conferred upon the Select Standing Committee on Crown Corporations, the Committee be empowered: (

a) to appoint of their number, one or more subcommit- tees and to refer to such subcommittees any of the mat- ters referred to the Committee; (

b) to sit during a period in which the House is ad- journed, during the recess after prorogation until the next following Session and during any sitting of the House; (

c) to adjourn from place to place as may be convenient; and (

d) to retain personnel as required to assist the Com- mittee, and shall report to the House as soon as possible, or fol- lowing any adjournment, or at the next following Ses- sion, as the case may be; to deposit the original of its re- ports with the Clerk of the Legislative Assembly during a period of adjournment and upon resumption of the sit- tings of the House, the Chair shall present all reports to the Legislative Assembly.] [1435] I wonder if we might deal with them individually. Motion approved. POWERS AND ROLE OF FINANCE AND GOVERNMENT SERVICES COMMITTEE Hon.

M. de Jong: By leave, I move: [That the Select Standing Committee on Finance and Government Services be empowered: 1. to examine, inquire into and make recommendations with respect to the pre-budget consultation report pre- pared by the Minister of Finance in accordance with sec- tion 2 of the Budget Transparency and Accountability Act and, in particular, to:

a) Conduct public consultations across British Columbia on proposals and recommendations regarding the pro- vincial budget and fiscal policy for the coming fiscal year by any means the committee considers appropriate, in- cluding but not limited to public meetings, telephone and electronic means;

b) Prepare a report no later than November 15, 2007 on the results of those consultations; and 2.

a) To consider and make recommendations on the an- nual reports, rolling three-year service plans and budgets of the following statutory officers:

i) Auditor General ii) Chief Electoral Officer iii) Conflict of Interest Commissioner iv) Information and Privacy Commissioner

v) Merit Commissioner vi) Ombudsman vii) Police Complaint Commissioner viii) Representative for Children and Youth; and,

b) To examine, inquire into and make recommendations with respect to other matters brought to the Committee's attention by any of the Officers listed in 2(

a) above. 3. That the Select Standing Committee on Finance and Government Services be the committee referred to in sec- tions 19, 20, 21 and 23 of the Auditor General Act and that the performance report in

section 22 of the Auditor Gen- eral Act be referred to the committee. In addition to the powers previously conferred upon the Select Standing Committee on Finance and Government Services, the committee shall be empowered: (

a) to appoint of their number, one or more subcommit- tees and to refer to such subcommittees any of the mat- ters referred to the Committee; (

b) to sit during a period in which the House is ad- journed, during the recess after prorogation until the next following Session and during any sitting of the House; (

c) to adjourn from place to place as may be convenient; and (

d) to retain personnel as required to assist the Com- mittee, and shall report to the House as soon as possible, or fol- lowing any adjournment, or at the next following Ses- sion, as the case may be; to deposit the original of its re- ports with the Clerk of the Legislative Assembly during a period of adjournment and upon resumption of the sit- tings of the House, the Chair shall present all reports to the Legislative Assembly.] Leave granted.

THURSDAY, APRIL 19, 2007 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 6931 Motion approved. APPOINTMENT OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE TO REVIEW THE PERSONAL INFORMATION PROTECTION ACT Hon. M. de Jong: Thirdly, by leave, I move: [That a Special Committee to Review the Personal Infor- mation Protection Act be appointed to examine in accor- dance with

section 59 of the Personal Information Protection Act (SBC 2003, c.63) and in particular, without limiting the generality of the foregoing to the collection, use and disclosure of personal information by organizations. The Special Committee so appointed shall have the powers of a Select Standing Committee and is also empowered: (

a) to appoint of their number, one or more subcommit- tees and to refer to such subcommittees any of the mat- ters referred to the Committee; (

b) to sit during a period in which the House is ad- journed, during the recess after prorogation until the next following Session and during any sitting of the House; (

c) to adjourn from place to place as may be convenient; (

d) to retain such personnel as required to assist the Committee; and shall report to the House as soon as possible, but no later than one year after the adoption of this motion, or following any adjournment, or at the next following Ses- sion, as the case may be; to deposit the original of its re- ports with the Clerk of the Legislative Assembly during a period of adjournment and upon resumption of the sit- tings of the House, the Chair shall present all reports to the Legislative Assembly.] Leave granted. Motion approved. APPOINTMENT OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE TO APPOINT A CONFLICT-OF-INTEREST COMMISSIONER Hon.

M. de Jong: Lastly, with leave, I move: [That a Special Committee to Appoint a Conflict of Interest Commissioner be appointed to select and unanimously recommend to the Legislative Assembly the appointment of a Commissioner, pursuant to sec- tion 14 of the Members' Conflict of Interest Act (RSBC 1996, c.287) and that the said Committee shall have the powers of a Select Standing Committee and in ad- dition is empowered: (

a) to appoint of their number, one or more subcommit- tees and to refer to such subcommittees any of the mat- ters referred to the Committee (but to deal with matters in the order in which the Committee has been authorized to deal with them); (

b) to sit during a period in which the House is ad- journed, during the recess after prorogation until the next following Session and during any sitting of the House; (

c) to adjourn from place to place as may be convenient; and (

d) to retain such personnel as required to assist the Committee; and shall report to the House as soon as possible, or fol- lowing any adjournment, or at the next following Ses- sion, as the case may be; to deposit the original of its re- ports with the Clerk of the Legislative Assembly during a period of adjournment and upon resumption of the sit- tings of the House, the Chair shall present all reports to the Legislative Assembly.] Leave granted. Motion approved. Orders of the Day Hon.

M. de Jong: I call in this chamber second reading debate on Bill 18, Forests and Range Statutes Amendment Act, and in Committee A, Committee of Supply, for the information of members, continued estimates on the Ministry of Advanced Education. Second Reading of Bills FORESTS AND RANGE STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT, 2007 Hon. R. Coleman: I move that Bill 18 be read a sec- ond time now. Bill 18 proposes amendments to five forest statutes that will enable this government to achieve a number of throne speech commitments.

Those commitments focused on forest stewardship, addressing interface fire risk and encouraging the better utilization of beetle-kill timber. The bill delivers on this government's ongoing work to revitalize and strengthen the forest sector through opening up new opportunities through streamlining and regulatory reform. Amendments to this bill provide important advances in govern ment's ability to meet its goal of sustainable environmental management and strengthen government's ability to take action in cases where individuals have caused damage to the environ- ment that adversely affects an ecosystem. [S.

Hawkins in the chair.] We already prohibit damage to the environment through the Forest and Range Practices Act. We have hundreds of Forests officials whose job it is to enforce this act. The proposed am endment gives our staff the ability to enforce these environmental protection rules against any person doing an y unauthorized activity that adversely harms an ecosystem. Those who cause adverse damage to an ecosystem face penalties of up to $100,000 and also may face prosecution in the criminal courts, which carries a maximum fine of up to $100,000, up to one year in jail or both.

We hope that this provision will be a deterrent to those individuals who damage the environment through mud-bogging or recklessly driving ATVs through sensitive alpine terrain or rangelands. The bill also supports stewardship and sustainabil- ity objectives by enabling more timely and responsive

6932 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, APRIL 19, 2007 adjustments to the allowable annual cuts when the area of a tree farm licence or timber supply area changes. It builds on government's ability to recover costs and gain compensation for costs and damages from person- caused fires. The amendment enables government to recover costs when a fire caused by a person destroys recently reforested areas. This provision will help re- establish those plantations damaged by wildfire. [1440] This bill provides important improvements to enable communities to continue to work on reducing the risk of urban interface fires.

Amendments to the Forest Act made changes to the forest licence to cut. Last year we gave local governments the ability to get forestry licence to cut to reduce the fuel loading in forests around the comm unities' homes. That was restricted to activities in commercial or merchant- able timber. These amendments clarify that non-commercial fuels may also be removed and disposed of. This amendment provides clarity to communities that are taking interface fire risks seriously and are conducting treatments such as thinning, pruning, brushing and prescribed burns.

Bill 18 supports improvements in our relationship with first nations. It will allow the ministry to adjust the volume or area in a number of licences directly awarded to first nations. It also streamlines a process of awarding community forest agreements and various new licences to first nations once an enabling agree- ment has been met. First nations will have quicker ac- cess to timber, which is important to deal with the mountain pine beetle–attacked timber. These changes strengthen the new relationship that our government is building with first nations.

An amendment to the Forest Act strengthens government's ability to prevent an unjustifiable infringement of po- tential aboriginal rights or title in forest activities. The new provisions enable government to stop forest activities from being conducted by timber sale licence holders, an ability we have now for other forms of forest tenure. Changes are being made to the Forest Act to en- able simpler and more effective administration. Woodlot licence holders will be able to own processing facilities without having to apply to the ministry.

Operators will be able to respond and purs ue value-added market op- portunities when they arise. A second amendment allows woodlot licence hold- ers to restart their cut control period so that they can adjust the harvesting plans to take advantage of market trends and conditions. Th ese amendments emphasize government's commitment to a diversified forest sector and to creating more opportunities for small tenure holders, including woodlots and community forests. Recovering as much economic value as possible from beetle timber remains a ministry focus.

To that end, we're creating new measures to facilitate the har- vest of mountain pine beetle timber. A new

section allows us to postpone the harvest of healthy green tim- ber within a cutting permit. This means companies can focus on beetle wood without worrying that their green timber permits will expire in the interim. We're also making it more economically feasible for operators to harvest salvage-type timber, including beetle wood, that isn't being cut by major licensees. Amendments will increase the maximum volume that can be harvested in these situations.

In conclusion, Madam Speaker, these proposed amendments allow government to continue to protect and manage B.C.'s most important resource on behalf of the people of British Columbia. B. Simpson: I appreciate the minister's opening comments, because some of the comments in there are questions that I will have during the next phase of the debate on this bill. I find this an interesting process. This is my third opportunity to table quite a substantive set of forestry amendments.

When a bill is tabled in the House, the bill comes — for those who don't have a life and listen to Hansard o r r e a d i t l a t e r o n — t o a l l o f u s a s a t w o - sided document. On the left-hand page are the ex- planatory notes. On the right-hand page is the actual change in legislation. For illustration purposes,

section 27 of this bill amends

section 47.8 of the Forest Act, and it just simply reads: "Section 47.8 (

c) is amended by adding 'or (3)' after 'section 47.6 (2)'." That one little clause of simply adding "or" after a

section in the explanatory notes says that this amend- ment allows the minister to make available for disposition to a person, other than the holder of a forestry licence to cut, the portion of Crown timber on Crown land that is subject to a forestry licence to cut related to B.C. timber sales and that was reduced under the Forestry Revitaliza- tion Act or in respect of which an attribution was made by order of the minister under that act.

So an "or" becomes a fairly substantive change in the minister's ability to ad- dress the allocation of timber under a licence. [1445] It's one of the things I find interesting about how the government puts out press releases. This is not par- tisan. I think it's just how governments do their busi- ness. They choose to emphasize explicit aspects of the bill and de-emphasize others. In this case, as I've spent time trying to understand th is bill, there are significant changes in this bill not emphasized by government that I want to explore for a few minutes here.

But there are also aspects of the bill that have been emphasized by government that really do not address issues that are on the land base or don't address adequately the issues that they're supposed to address. The government's press release actually targets one thing: "Mud-bogging, Interface Fires Targeted in Bill." The whole front end of the pr ess release is that it's about mud-bogging and, as the minister indicated, strengthening government's ability to deal with people who damage our forests or range resources.

What the bill actually does is simply give the com- pliance enforcement under the Ministry of Forests and Range the ability to give penalties to non–licence hold- ers or people who are not auth orized to be on the land base under Ministry of Forests regulations but who are out there and who do damage.

THURSDAY, APRIL 19, 2007 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 6933 That's a good thing. It's a good thing that we have that ability to do that, because sometimes these things fall through the cracks. I know range holders, for ex- ample, who get tired of mud-boggers. If a range holder is out on a range with an ATV and happens to tear up his property, he gets all ki nds of trouble from the Min- istry of Forests and Range or Ministry of Environment compliance folks.

If an individual is out there running around with an ATV and creates all kinds of damage, there is a gap in the legislation that makes it difficult to get to those people. The difficulty I have with this is, again, that it's a change in legislation that's much touted as a major sig- nificant shift, and we're going to be able to get all these mud-boggers. But if you look at the Ministry of Forests and Range service plan, th e compliance and enforce- ment budget and personnel are flatlined. So there are no additional resources put to this, and this is a signifi- cant issue.

I'm not sure — and I'll ask in questioning of the act — whether or not there actually would be addi- tional training around this, whether or not there will be additional opportunities for compliance and enforce- ment officers to be out on the ground around this. The issue on the land base is that we don't have enough eyes and ears. Wherever I go around the prov- ince I hear that. We don't have enough eyes and ears on the ground just now as it is.

Adding an additional bur- den to these folks without the resources simply means that while we may have the legislation, we may not have the authority to do anything about it because we don't have the people out there to catch these individuals. The other thing is, as the minister indicated, that it enables local government to reduce the threat of inter- face wildfires to their communities through changes to the forest licence to cut.

As the minister well knows, on March 31 of last year UBCM and the strategic wildfire prevention initiative gave notice to the government that there were significant hindrances to local govern- ments conducting their interface plans on the ground.

Those hindrances were, fo r example, the right to work on lands not within their jurisdiction, legal re- sponsibilities assumed by working on those lands that are not in your jurisdiction — for example, Crown lands and in some cases private or first nations lands — the allocation of local tax dollars for work outside of a local jurisdiction and, in the case of regional districts, the inability to collect that. There are also issues about stumpage.

There are is- sues about whether or not it's appropriate for local gov- ernments to pick up the resp onsibilities associated with what was a Crown obligation to that point. Again, there are some changes in here th at will assist local govern- ments, but the act doesn't go far enough. It doesn't ad- dress all of the issues being addressed to the ministry. In fact, the disappointm ent I have in this act — it is a theme that I would suggest permeates my review of the act — is that it simply doesn't go far enough.

There are a number of asks of the government around legisla- tion that are not addressed in this act, that are not ad- dressed in these amendments. [1450] In 2003, when the government made the sweeping changes that it made to the Forest Act, brought in a new results-based code and a new Wildfire Act — all of the things they've done in terms of legislation since 2003…. There has been a lot of collateral damage as a result of that. I think that happens whenever any gov- ernment brings in legislation, because you can't think through all of the computations and permutations and impacts of the legislation at the time.

However, we've had four years, and in those four years we've had enough substantive time to understand what the impli- cations of those Forest Act changes are and to know that we needed more in this act than what's in it. For example, there's nothing in this act that restores the social contract. There's no thing in this act that once again makes sure that communities benefit from our public resources. In 2003 a ppurtenancy was cut. The mill closure review was taken away. That's not ad- dressed in here.

I know that there are a number of people around the province, including members of large corporations, who have said that there was always an explicit under- standing with government that while the large corpo- rate entities got what they needed through those Forest Act changes, the government would take care of the communities and the workers a ffected by that. This act doesn't address those issues. There is significant issue on the land base, and we're canvassing this in estimates just now, around tenure and around the formation of these — the word of the session — oligopolies and monopolies.

Again, this act doesn't redress that, although there is one

section of the act I must say I'm happy to see in there. That's a

section in the act that once again restores to the minister the ability to decide on some other eco- nomic drivers for the allocation of timber rights. I'm looking forward to exploring that and to seeing what's on the minister's mind and what his staff are saying we need to do to direct that fibre to grow our value-added business or independent business and so on. But that's redressing one aspect of the collateral damage that occurred from 2003. One other major concern I have is that the govern- ment has been given substantive advice about the For- est and Range Practices Act, the so-called results-based code.

That advice comes from the Association of B.C. Forest Professionals. It comes from the environmental groups. It comes from community groups. The Horse- fly Ratepayers Association in my riding has given all kinds of advice to government around that results- based code and what does not work for them. In particular, the Forest Practices Board gave a sub- stantive report to the government suggesting changes that needed to be made. In fact, the minister's own ad- visory group suggested to the government and to the minister directly that some values needed to be added to the Forest and Range Practices Act.

The Forest and Range Practices Act explicitly states values that must be in what are called forest steward- ship plans. But what has happened as a result of them being explicitly stated is that the forest stewardship

6934 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, APRIL 19, 2007 plans have become legal documents that are minimum- expectations documents, so they only meet the mini- mum objectives. In other words, they become what we would say are butt-covering exercises as opposed to forest stewardship exercises. Deputy Speaker: Member. B. Simpson: My apologies, Madam Speaker. Deputy Speaker: Withdraw that comment, please. B. Simpson: They become an exercise in covering legal liability. Deputy Speaker: Member. Member, please with- draw that comment. B. Simpson: Sorry, I withdraw my comment.

They become an exercise in covering legal liability as opposed to forest stewardship. That's the general buzz that's out in the forest sector. The Forest Practices Board has pointed out that they are minimalist plans. As a result, within the Forest and Range Practices Act there is a

section that basically restricts what licensees have put in as values to adhere to. The minister's own advisory group recommended to the minister, for example — this is the minister's Forest and Range Practices Advisory Council — the need for an objective set by government and a change to the Forest and Range Practices Act in

section 149, an objective for forest worker safety. A s e v e r y o n e i n t h i s H o u s e k n o w s , f o r e s t w o r k e r safety is an issue that we have addressed on many oc- casions. We've had a fortunate year and a bit where those numbers have been reduced. However, one of the concerns that people have is that because it's not an explicit objective under the Forest and Range Practices Act, then we can let that slip again. That was recom- mended to the minister. That doesn't find its way into this amendment act. [1455] There's another area of concern. Again, it's within the area of interface fire.

While this act does address some issues around interface fire, it doesn't address fire itself as a value under the results-based code. Not only was the minister advised by staff to put fire in as a legal objective, but the Forest Practices Board gave substantive advice to the government in a document about the risk of fire on the land base and interface, and it needed to be addressed. The fact that we're not adding fire as a value to forest range practices, I think, is an oversight. There's another significant oversight, however.

As a result of the changes that occurred in 2003, the ministry attempted to shift all aspects of inventory and forest health to the major licensees and to licensees in general. Under a program called "defined forest area manage- ment," or DFAM, they tried to make sure that the licen- sees picked up all of the forest health initiatives and picked up inventory. The quid pro quo for the licensees was that they could come back to the ministry and say: "Because we're doing such a good job on the land base, we deserve an uplift in our annual allowable cut." Well, that program has failed, and it has failed abysmally.

There are a few areas where people did attempt to do it, but the majority of licen sees did not pick up this responsibility. Again, the minister was counselled in the run-up to this legislative session that that shift in obligation to the licensees and its failure created a gap in our forestry legislation. A recommendation was made to the minis- ter to add a new

section to the Forest and Range Prac- tices Act explicitly to address forest health issues in forest stewardship plans. That hasn't been done in this act, and again that is an unfortunate oversight because, as anybody who has been awake for the last couple of years knows, we have a significant forest health issue. The mountain pine beetle is only the leading edge of that, and the failure to add that value into this act is problematic.

There are some sections of the act that I'm unsure as to whether or not we can achieve that objective a dif- ferent way, and I look forward to the committee stage to see if that's possible, but the general sense is that this act did not go far enough, particularly in those areas. One area that is very curious to me — the minister mentioned it in his speech, and we're going to have to explore it — is the implications of the change in annual allowable cut determination.

I think I understand what the ministry is trying to do in this — because we've done takebacks, reapportionments and all kinds of things on the land base. Th e normal practice would be for the chief forester in an annual allowable cut review to do a full review, and that takes time. It takes a year, a year and a half sometimes, to do that. There needs to be a faster way of doing the deter- mination, but there are huge implications about how an annual allowable cut is determined. It has financial and stewardship implications , and it also has social and community implications.

That change in annual allowable cut determination permeates this act, and I'll be very curious in committee stage as to what the im- plications are of that. Another area is redressing, I think, some oversight in the 2003 forestry legislat ive changes. There are sig- nificant changes here to the role of the district manager. There is more authority given to the district manager — in the case, as the minister pointed out, of first na- tions — to protect first nations rights and for the issu- ance of community forests. [Mr.

Speaker in the chair.] In particular — I know I've had a lot of questions addressed to me around this — is the district man- ager's ability to cancel cutting permits or road permits. In order to get to a cutting permit or a road permit, a lot of work has to be done to get up to that point. The planning work has to be done — block layouts and long-term planning. There are significant costs associ-

THURSDAY, APRIL 19, 2007 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 6935 ated with getting to the level of a cutting permit or a road permit. [1500] There is some concern out there that giving the district manager the ability to cancel or reject a cutting permit or a road permit at that stage means that the companies or the licensees absorb a lot of costs and that the district manager holds a big axe. The district man- ager can cut them off at the point that they're going to action and do that operation.

It's interesting that that's not part of the govern- ment's press release, but it is a significant part of this act, and we need to explore it. We also need to explore what that derivative authority is for the district managers. If the district manager is given authority to make decisions independent of the minister — that delegated authority — on substantive issues like protecting first nations rights in this case, like issuing community forest licences and cancelling cutting permits and road permits….

Under the results-based code, part of the big chal- lenge we have is trying to understand what profes- sional reliance is and what the professional liability is. I look forward to exploring th at with the minister and his staff, because these district managers not only gain that delegated authority, but they also potentially gain the liability that comes associated with that. The liability issue, as the minister and his staff well know, is a significant issue within the Association of B.C. Forest Professionals, which governs the profession and of which the district managers are members. That area, again….

It's one or tw o paragraphs in this large act, but it is a substantive change. Another area that begs further exploration is the re- quirements for management plans for tree farm licences. Again, it's one of those sections that have little changes in wording. Management plans and tree farm licences are a part of the ongoing planning for what are called area- based tenures, where a licensee has control over a certain area and has a requirement to put in an annual report and to edit and create their management plan. When tenure changes, it looks like in this act, the management plan process changes as well.

The minis- ter has some authority for approval. It seems to be re- moving the chief forester. Again, I am not clear on what the implications of that are, and I look forward to exploring that. It's another area that does require some significant exploration. The final comment I'll make…. I'm not sure if this is going to happen now or later on, but I know that the minister was counselled by his own staff. I know that the Forest Practices Board gave a report on the fact that we need a resource road act. This bill we have in front of us does not address the issue of what's happening on forest roads.

It's becoming a very significant issue. I had the lux- ury, when I worked in the in dustry, of working in both B.C. and Alberta. In Alberta, because of years of ex- perience with the oil and gas industry, the forest indus- try and the oil and gas industry had found a way to manage their access to the land base through these resource roads. They worked in very close cooperation. Unfortunately, as the Forest Practices Board re- ported out in December 2005, we don't have that here and we need to fix it.

According to their own documen- tation, there are currently between 400,000 and 550,000 kilometres of resource roads in British Columbia. By comparison, the provincial highway system covers only 45,000 kilometres. So we have a set of roads out there that is ten times gr eater than our provincial highway system, that isn't governed by a unified act and isn't governed by unified regulations. The Forest Practices Board recommended that we needed a set of laws and that the Ministry of Forests and Range and the Ministry of Agriculture needed to address this issue as quickly as possible.

Well, that was December 7, 2005. We're now in April 2007. I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, there are a lot of people who think that if we don't ad dress this issue, not only are we creating greater conflict, particularly as we grow the oil and gas industry — greater conflict potential — greater animosity between resource groups that are out there using the land base, but it also is a safety issue. It's a forest stewardship issue.

As our land base shifts and as we're working in droughts, it is a fire safety issue. [1505] I won't be able to ask those questions because it's not in the act, but it is an area where I want it on the record that we would support a forest resource roads act coming forward very quickly to address this issue. We would support it coming forward with substantive changes to the regulations and legislation that already exist, and we would hope that it would be governed by an independent body that would make sure that our forest resource roads are managed properly, safely and with stewardship and public safety in mind.

With that, I'll close my comments. Mr. Speaker: Seeing no further speakers, the Minis- ter of Forests and Range closes debate. Hon. R. Coleman: When I hear the member three times in his remarks say that I've been counselled by my staff on certain issues, I want to run back and see if my office is bugged. I've never seen the member oppo- site at any of the briefing s I've had with my m inistry , so I don't know how he can determine what was said in a meeting other than that. It's just a bit of humour for me as much as anything.

I did actually have a bit of a chuckle as the member was describing the word "or" in his remarks with re- gards to the description on the pages beside. Welcome, to the member, to drafting legislation. It is an interest- ing breed of people that are authors of legislation, and they are authors. They are a group of people that actu- ally do this. They write this stuff, they write legislation, and then they can explain to you how this connects to a law and how that law connects to another law and how a Charter challenge can be affected in another area with regards to constitutional stuff and everything else.

They do a pretty good job. Before a bill ever gets here, of course, it gets drafted, it goes through committees, and it goes

6936 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, APRIL 19, 2007 through a legislative review. It comes through the min- ister. You've got to ask questions about it and go through it before it gets to the House. So it's a very interesting bit of work, and it's a lot of work for the individuals who do the work. The drafters have been around government, some of them…. I think some of them have probably been here for 30 years. They are a group of people that do a pr etty significant process for u s in g overnment when they draft leg islat i on.

It is in- teresting how the coining of a word in a piece of law can have an impact sometimes, and quite interesting. The big thing about this for me, hon. Speaker, is that we're trying to do a number of things for commu- nities, for interface fire, for those that want to destroy the land base through mud-bogging and allow some things that woodlot operators have asked to take place — those types of things. This is the type of bill that you actually don't spend hours in debate on at second read- ing.

You spend more time probably at the committee stage of this, because quite frankly, it's one of those bills that covers a plethora of issues when it's an amendment act to a number of statutes and a number of sections, where usually your discussions and de- bates are around committee stage. I have had a number of pieces of communication from different communities across British Columbia, particularly around the mud-bogging piece of this leg- islation and particularly in the Kootenays. B.C. Nature, the Federation of B.C.

Naturalists, have also written me with regards to that, thinking that it's well overdue and time to deal with that. I do know that the member for East Kootenay, who lives in Cranbrook…. He was not available and wasn't able to be in the House today to have a discussion with regards to his opportunity on second reading. I'll hear from him, I'm sure, in committee. He did want to pass on his support with regards to this, because his con- stituents have been very, very vocal with him over a number of years. He has been an advocate with regards to trying to deal with this issue for some time.

I think that it's good, because we're going to do more to let communities do more with less red tape, so they can go after the interface fire and those sorts of things. We will have an interesting discussion, I'm sure, at committee stage of this bill. Having said that, I move second reading of the bill. Motion approved. Hon. R. Coleman: I move that the bill be referred to a Committee of the Whole House for consideration at the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill 18, Forests and Range Statutes Amendment Act, 2007, read a second time and referred to a Com- mittee of the Whole House for consideration at the next sitting of the House after today. Hon. C. Richmond: I call Committee of Supply, the estimates of the Ministry of Forests and Range. [1510] Committee of Supply ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF FORESTS AND RANGE AND MINISTER RESPONSIBLE FOR HOUSING (continued) The House in Committee of Supply (Section B); S. Hawkins in the chair. The committee met at 3:12 p.m. On Vote 33: ministry operations, $489,876,000 (con- tinued). Hon. R.

Coleman: Madam Chair, we would like to take a five-minute recess. The House recessed from 3:13 p.m. to 3:20 p.m. [S. Hawkins in the chair.] On Vote 33 (continued). Hon. R. Coleman: Joining us in the House is a member of my staff, Jillian Rousselle from the opera- tions division of the ministry . I'd like to introduce her to the House. She'll be here for a little while. B. Simpson: We closed off with the minister referenc- ing a UBC report with respect to the value-added sector and some comments with respect to where fibre shortage came for them in the order of priorities.

My question to the minister is: what was the date of that report? How was that report conducted? Is it available publicly? Hon. R. Coleman: They were both UBC reports on the secondary wood sector. One was A Current Assessment of the Canadian Secondary Wood Sector in a Global Context, Cohen, Delong and Kozac, July 2005. The other one is The Canadian Secondary Wood Products Sector: Competitive Success Factors and Current Status, Delong, Cohen and Kozac, March 2005. B.

Simpson: I have difficulty with those reports in the context of what we're discussing just now because, as the minister should be well aware, the issue of the critical log shortage has be en growing over the last little while. Did those reports at that time break out British Columbia's value-added sector as a separate entity so that we could look at that data separately? Hon. R. Coleman: The one report was done on 618 respondents from firms across Canada. The B.C. Economic Forum and B.C. Wood both confirmed that these reports were reflective of the situation in British Columbia. B.

Simpson: When the Competition Council did its report, did it address the value-added sector in that report? Hon. R. Coleman: It wasn't the focus of the Compe- tition Council report. The Competition Council report

THURSDAY, APRIL 19, 2007 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 6937 went everywhere from B.C.'s ten-year transition plan to timber pricing, position of the Competition Council on issues, mountain pine beetle action plan, rationaliza- tion, consolidation, reducing lumber costs. Some had to do with values and getting stuff out of values, but it didn't focus on the value-added sector. B. Simpson: The reason I raised the question is be- cause the value-added sector thought that was a gross oversight.

If you look back at the language of the forest revitalization strategy, it was explicitly to grow the value-added sector, not to grow the dimension lumber sector. It actually makes explicit statements about the fact that previous tenure changes always seemed to de- fault to the lowest common denominator, pulp and/or solid wood, and that the value-added sector kept getting shortchanged. [1525] In the fall of 2005 estimates, the minister references a value-added strategy at that time.

My recollection was that the minister indicate d that the ministry or the provincial government was working on a value-added strategy. Do we have a value-added strategy in the works in British Columbia? Hon. R. Coleman: The strategy has been ongoing. However, we are close to moving it up another level, which we should be in a position to deal with in the next few weeks. We've reached an agreement with B.C. Wood on that strategy, as well as with other producers on how the dollars to be applied there are basically now being finalized.

We should note, though, that FII has very much had an interest in the valu e-product mix. In providing funding to other organizations, FII has historically dedicated about a quarter of its available funds to the promotion of value-added products. With respect to activities of the FII staff, about half of the relevant expenditures relate to primary products and half to value-added products. We've been building a very good relationship with B.C. Wood as we take this thing to try and move it to the next level. B. Simpson: I just want to be clear, before I go on to the next question, on the mi nister's answer there.

Is there or is there not a definitive value-added strategy forthcoming for the province? Hon. R. Coleman: Absolutely, Madam Chair. B. Simpson: Who will be involved in the construc- tion of that strategy? Hon. R. Coleman: A number of groups, but the primary group we've been working with is B.C. Wood. B. Simpson: Will the Independent Lumber Re- manufacturers Association be involved in the strategy? Hon. R. Coleman: Any company in B.C. can get access to the program thro ugh B.C. Wood. B.C.

Wood is the organization that we've worked with on the strategy, because it represents a number of those com- panies in a market sense and has a good handle on the thing. [1530] That organization seems to have the horsepower in order to basically deliver on some goals in cooperation with government. That's the organization that we spent most of the time with, with regards to strategy. B.

Simpson: I think it's important just to explore this a little bit, because the minister mentioned the in- dividual, who is the pres ident of the Independent Lumber Remanufacturers Association, as someone who appeared to be problematic. That was the discus- sion that the minister had in this House. The Inde- pendent Lumber Remanufacturers Association and other associations felt that they were not engaged in the coastal recovery process, and that they were trying to fight their way into that process. What will be the communications strategy in the invitation that will go out through B.C.

Wood so that as many people will be engaged as possible and they won't find out by happensta nce that something is ei- ther in the works or, as in th e case of the work that Mr. Dobell did, already done? What would that communi- cation strategy be, and what is the requirement of B.C. Wood or the government to do that? Hon. R. Coleman: There's quite a bit of overlap between these organizations , and B.C. Wood would communicate that. Any independent remanner or value-added operator in British Columbia can contact B.C. Wood or the ministry about value-added. We're happy to share the informat ion with them.

When the strategy comes out — basically, the horsepower dol- lars; how it's going to be handled and where they can apply is put together — they'll all be made aware of it and how they can participate. B. Simpson: I'll make sure that Mr. Cameron is apprised of that and looks for that. The minister's comments around FII though, and I made mention of this before we recessed for lunch …. I'm being told by B.C. Wood and others that there are not substantive problems on the market side. There may be some innovation issues and so on, and it's nice to see the breakdown in FII. We'll look at some of that later on.

But it's not the product side, and it's not the market side; it's the supply side. [S. Hammell in the chair.] Mr. Cameron, in the Independent Lumber Remanu- facturers Association's submission to Mr. Dobell, states on behalf of his association: "The fact is that most of our recent problems have been created by our own governments. The result is that we face increased diffi- culty obtaining supply, we have less access to our big- gest market" — that's through the softwood lumber agreement — "and we are considerably less agile." The

6938 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, APRIL 19, 2007 report goes on to say: "The problems of the independ- ents can generally be categorized as supply, supply and supply." The issue is of supply. In the forestry revitalization strategy it states as an explicit action that: "Policy changes designed to promote the freer flow of timber will provide B.C.'s value-added manufacturers with more access to timber. These policy changes include reallocation of tenure to market loggers and removing timber-processing restrictions.

As well, the value- added sector will be able to bid on the increased vol- ume of wood sold at auction through reallocation." We're going to get into the bid part when we get into B.C. Timber Sales. My question to the minister is this: has the ministry ever done an evaluation of the impacts of the Forestry Revitalization Act and all of the changes that occurred there, with respect to both the fibre and log flow to the value-added sector? The government's own policies, as Mr. Cameron states, are in the way and creating the problems. Has that been evaluated in response to those concerns? [1535] Hon. R.

Coleman: First of all, the fact is that there are four million cubic metres more out there for open bid than there was before the forestry revitalization plan. We'll obviously have those discussions about BCTS later. There's lots of wo od in the interior of B.C., as the member knows. At the same time, I've talked to the value-added sector, who te ll me that it's not about the log for a lot of them; it's about the relationship they build with the other manufacturers.

For instance, I was through a hardwood mill re- cently where they were taking out certain clear pieces so they could go to somebody and make a specific product out of it. They get more value for that, because they can sell it upstream to somebody who is making more of a product out of it. The person that finishes that doesn't want a raw log. They actually want some- thing that's coming out of a primary ope

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0419pm-05
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0419pm 05
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	2ce9e4dc4d77a41be8bd0c416709b4f5bb736721

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