British Columbia Hansard — Thursday, May 5, 2011 (39th Parliament, 3rd Session) (H0505pm-02) (H0505pm 02)

H0505pm-02

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session, 39th Parliament official rePort of Debates of the Legis Lative a ssemb Ly (hansarD) the honourable bill bari Soff, SPeaker iSSn 0709-1281 Thursday, May 5, 2011 Afternoon Sitting Volume 21, Number 2

Pro Vince of britiS h colu Mbia (entered c onfederation July 20, 1871) lieutenant -Go Vernor h is h onour the h onourable Steven l.

Point, obc Third Session, 39th Parliament SPeaker of the leGiS latiVe a SSeMbl Y h onourable bill barisoff eXecutiVe council Premier and President of the executive c ouncil .............................................................................................................. h on. c hristy c lark Deputy Premier and Minister of finance ............................................................................................................................h on. k evin f alcon Minister of a boriginal r elations and r econciliation ...........................................................................................................h on.

Mary Polak Minister of a dvanced e ducation .................................................................................................................................h on. n aomi Y amamoto Minister of a griculture ........................................................................................................................................................... h on.

Don Mcr ae a ttorney General ........................................................................................................................................................... h on. barry Penner, Qc Minister of c hildren and f amily Development ................................................................................................................ h on.

Mary Mcn eil Minister of c ommunity, Sport and cultural Development .................................................................................................. h on. ida c hong Minister of e ducation .........................................................................................................................................................h on.

George a bbott Minister of energy and Mines and Minister r esponsible for h ousing.........................................................................h on. r ich c oleman Minister of environment ....................................................................................................................................................h on. Dr. t erry l ake Minister of f orests, l ands and n atural r esource o perations......................................................................................h on.

Steve Thomson Minister of h ealth .................................................................................................................................................... h on. Michael de Jong, Qc Minister of Jobs, t ourism and innovation ................................................................................................................................... h on. Pat bell Minister of l abour, citizens' Services and o pen Government .............................................................................. h on.

Stephanie c adieux Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General .................................................................................................................h on.

Shirley bond Minister of Social Development and Minister r esponsible for Multiculturalism ............................................................ h on. h arry bloy Minister of t ransportation and infrastructure ................................................................................................................h on. blair l ekstrom leGiS latiVe a SSeMbl Y l eader of the official o pposition ......................................................................................................................................................a drian Dix Deputy Speaker .................................................................................................................................................................................... l inda r eid a ssistant Deputy Speaker ..................................................................................................................................................................Dawn black Deputy c hair, c ommittee of the Whole ...................................................................................................................................Douglas h orne c lerk of the l egislative a ssembly...................................................................................................................e.

George MacMinn, obc, Q c c lerk a ssistant ..................................................................................................................................................................................r obert Vaive c lerk a ssistant and l aw c lerk................................................................................................................................................. ian D. izard, Qc c lerk a ssistant and c lerk of c ommittees ............................................................................................................... craig h.

James (on leave) c lerk a ssistant and a cting c lerk of c ommittees ................................................................................................................. k ate r yan-l loyd Sergeant-at-a rms ................................................................................................................................................................................. Gary l enz

alP habetical liS t of MeMberS a bbott, h on. George (l) ........................................................................ Shuswap a ustin, r obin (nDP) ................................................................................ Skeena bains, h arry (nDP) ....................................................................Surrey-n ewton barisoff, h on. bill (l) ............................................................................Penticton barnett, Donna (l) ................................................................ c ariboo-c hilcotin bell, h on.

Pat (l) ..................................................... Prince George–Mackenzie bennett, bill (l) .............................................................................k ootenay e ast black, Dawn (nDP) ................................................................n ew Westminster black, iain (l) .............................................................. Port Moody–c oquitlam bloy, h on. h arry (l) ............................................................burnaby-l ougheed bond, h on.

Shirley (l) ...........................................Prince George–Valemount brar, Jagrup (nDP) ................................................................ Surrey-fleetwood c adieux, h on. Stephanie (l) ................................................Surrey-Panorama c antelon, r on (l) ..............................................................

Parksville-Qualicum c handra h erbert, Spencer (nDP) ................................Vancouver–West end c hong, h on. ida (l) ..................................................... o ak bay–Gordon h ead c houhan, r aj (nDP) ........................................................... burnaby-e dmonds c oell, Murray (l) ..............................................Saanich n orth and the islands c oleman, h on. r ich (l) ........................................... f ort l angley–a ldergrove c onroy, katrine (nDP) .............................................................. k ootenay West c oons, Gary (nDP) .........................................................................n orth c oast c orrigan, k athy (nDP) ..................................................... burnaby–Deer l ake Dalton, Marc (l) ..............................................................

Maple r idge–Mission de Jong, h on. Michael, Qc (l) .............................................. a bbotsford West Dix, a drian (nDP) ............................................................Vancouver-kingsway Donaldson, Doug (nDP) ......................................................................... Stikine e lmore, Mable (nDP) ................................................... Vancouver-kensington f alcon, h on. k evin (l) ..........................................................Surrey-c loverdale f arnworth, Mike (nDP) ............................................................

Port c oquitlam fleming, r ob (nDP) .......................................................... Victoria–Swan l ake f oster, eric (l) .......................................................................Vernon-Monashee f raser, Scott (nDP) ............................................................a lberni–Pacific r im Gentner, Guy (nDP) .........................................................................Delta n orth h ammell, Sue (nDP) .................................................... Surrey–Green t imbers h ansen, c olin (l) ............................................................

Vancouver-Quilchena h awes, r andy (l) ............................................................... a bbotsford-Mission h ayer, Dave S. (l) .................................................................... Surrey-t ynehead h eed, k ash (l) ................................................................ Vancouver-fraserview h ogg, Gordon (l) ............................................................... Surrey–White r ock h organ, John (nDP) .......................................................................

Juan de f uca h orne, Douglas (l) ..............................................c oquitlam–b urke Mountain h oward, r ob (l) .....................................................................r ichmond c entre h untington, Vicki (ind.) ..................................................................Delta South James, c arole (nDP) .........................................................Victoria–b eacon h ill k aragianis, Maurine (nDP) ........................................e squimalt–r oyal r oads k rog, l eonard (nDP) ........................................................................... n anaimo k rueger, kevin (l) ............................................... k amloops–South Thompson kwan, Jenny Wai ching (nDP) ...........................

Vancouver–Mount Pleasant l ake, h on. Dr. t erry (l) .....................................k amloops–n orth Thompson l ali, h arry (nDP) ..........................................................................f raser-n icola l ee, r ichard t . (l) .......................................................................burnaby n orth l ekstrom, h on. blair (l) .......................................................

Peace r iver South l es, John (l) .........................................................................................c hilliwack l etnick, n orm (l) ........................................................k elowna–l ake c ountry MacDiarmid, Dr. Margaret (l) ......................................... Vancouver-fairview Macdonald, n orm (nDP) ....................................c olumbia r iver–r evelstoke Mcintyre, Joan (l) ..................................................West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Mcn eil, h on. Mary (l) .................................................Vancouver–f alse creek Mcr ae, h on.

Don (l) ................................................................... c omox Valley Mungall, Michelle (nDP) ..........................................................n elson-creston Penner, hon. barry, Qc (l) ....................................................c hilliwack-h ope Pimm, Pat (l) ..........................................................................Peace r iver n orth Polak, h on.

Mary (l) ...............................................................................l angley Popham, l ana (nDP) ...................................................................Saanich South r alston, bruce (nDP) ................................................................

Surrey-Whalley r eid, l inda (l) .............................................................................r ichmond e ast r outley, bill (nDP) .................................................................. c owichan Valley r outley, Doug (nDP) ............................................n anaimo–n orth c owichan r ustad, John (l) ........................................................................... n echako l akes Sather, Michael (nDP) ......................................... Maple r idge–Pitt Meadows Simons, n icholas (nDP) ...................................

Powell r iver–Sunshine c oast Simpson, bob (ind.) .....................................................................c ariboo n orth Simpson, Shane (nDP) .....................................................Vancouver-hastings Slater, John (l) ..............................................................boundary-Similkameen Stewart, ben (l) ..................................................................... Westside-kelowna Stilwell, Dr. Moira (l) ......................................................... Vancouver-l angara Sultan, r alph (l) .....................................................

West Vancouver–capilano Thomson, hon.

Steve (l) ........................................................k elowna-Mission Thorne, Diane (nDP) .................................................c oquitlam-Maillardville Thornthwaite, Jane (l) .......................................... n orth Vancouver–Seymour t revena, c laire (nDP) .................................................................... n orth island van Dongen, John (l) .............................................................a bbotsford South Y amamoto, hon. n aomi (l) ................................. n orth Vancouver–l onsdale Y ap, John (l) .......................................................................r ichmond-Steveston Vacant ...............................................................................Vancouver–Point Grey liS t of MeMberS bY riD in G a bbotsford-Mission .......................................................................r andy h awes a bbotsford South .....................................................................John van Dongen a bbotsford West ......................................................h on.

Michael de Jong, Qc a lberni–Pacific r im ..........................................................................

Scott f raser boundary-Similkameen .....................................................................John Slater burnaby–Deer l ake ................................................................... k athy c orrigan burnaby-e dmonds ......................................................................... r aj c houhan burnaby-l ougheed ...................................................................h on. h arry bloy burnaby n orth .............................................................................. r ichard t . l ee c ariboo-c hilcotin ........................................................................Donna barnett c ariboo n orth ................................................................................ bob Simpson c hilliwack ...............................................................................................

John l es c hilliwack-h ope .......................................................... h on. barry Penner, Qc c olumbia r iver–r evelstoke .................................................. n orm Macdonald c omox Valley...........................................................................h on. Don Mcr ae c oquitlam–b urke Mountain .....................................................Douglas h orne c oquitlam-Maillardville...............................................................

Diane Thorne c owichan Valley ................................................................................ bill r outley Delta n orth ......................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South ...............................................................................Vicki h untington e squimalt–r oyal r oads .....................................................Maurine k aragianis f ort l angley–a ldergrove ...................................................h on. r ich c oleman f raser-n icola........................................................................................ h arry l ali Juan de f uca .....................................................................................John h organ k amloops–n orth Thompson ............................................ h on.

Dr. t erry l ake k amloops–South Thompson ...................................................... k evin k rueger k elowna–l ake c ountry ...............................................................n orm l etnick k elowna-Mission .............................................................. h on.

Steve Thomson k ootenay e ast ....................................................................................bill bennett k ootenay West ............................................................................ k atrine c onroy l angley.......................................................................................h on. Mary Polak Maple r idge–Mission .....................................................................

Marc Dalton Maple r idge–Pitt Meadows ........................................................Michael Sather n anaimo ......................................................................................... l eonard k rog n anaimo–n orth c owichan ......................................................... Doug r outley n echako l akes ..................................................................................

John r ustad n elson-creston ........................................................................Michelle Mungall n ew Westminster ..............................................................................Dawn black n orth c oast....................................................................................... Gary c oons n orth island .................................................................................. c laire t revena n orth Vancouver–l onsdale ........................................h on. n aomi Y amamoto n orth Vancouver–Seymour .................................................

Jane Thornthwaite o ak bay–Gordon h ead ............................................................ h on. ida c hong Parksville-Qualicum ..................................................................... r on c antelon Peace r iver n orth ................................................................................Pat Pimm Peace r iver South ...............................................................h on. blair l ekstrom Penticton................................................................................... h on. bill barisoff Port c oquitlam ..........................................................................Mike f arnworth Port Moody–c oquitlam ...................................................................... iain black Powell r iver–Sunshine c oast ................................................. n icholas Simons Prince George–Mackenzie .............................................................h on.

Pat bell Prince George–Valemount ...................................................h on. Shirley bond r ichmond c entre ............................................................................ r ob h oward r ichmond e ast ................................................................................... l inda r eid r ichmond-Steveston ..............................................................................John Y ap Saanich n orth and the islands .....................................................

Murray c oell Saanich South ................................................................................ l ana Popham Shuswap ...............................................................................h on.

George a bbott Skeena .............................................................................................. r obin a ustin Stikine ........................................................................................Doug Donaldson Surrey-c loverdale .................................................................h on. k evin f alcon Surrey-fleetwood ...............................................................................Jagrup brar Surrey–Green t imbers ..................................................................Sue h ammell Surrey-n ewton ................................................................................. h arry b ains Surrey-Panorama ........................................................ h on.

Stephanie c adieux Surrey-t ynehead ........................................................................... Dave S. h ayer Surrey-Whalley.............................................................................. bruce r alston Surrey–White r ock ....................................................................... Gordon h ogg Vancouver-fairview ................................................ Dr. Margaret MacDiarmid Vancouver–f alse creek ........................................................ h on.

Mary Mcn eil Vancouver-fraserview ........................................................................k ash h eed Vancouver-hastings ....................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-kensington .................................................................Mable e lmore Vancouver-kingsway..........................................................................a drian Dix Vancouver-l angara .................................................................Dr.

Moira Stilwell Vancouver–Mount Pleasant ..........................................Jenny Wai ching kwan Vancouver–Point Grey ...............................................................................Vacant Vancouver-Quilchena ................................................................... c olin h ansen Vancouver–West end ...............................................Spencer c handra h erbert Vernon-Monashee ...............................................................................eric f oster Victoria–b eacon h ill .......................................................................c arole James Victoria–Swan l ake.........................................................................r ob fleming West Vancouver–capilano ............................................................. r alph Sultan West Vancouver–Sea to Sky ........................................................

Joan Mcintyre Westside-kelowna .............................................................................ben Stewart Party Standings: l iberal 48; n ew Democratic 34; independent 2; Vacant 1

CONTENTS Thursday, May 5, 2011 a fternoon Sitting Page Routine Business introductions by Members ..................................................................................................................................................... 6681 introduction and first r eading of bills ................................................................................................................................ 6681 bill 7 — Miscellaneous Statutes a mendment a ct, 2011 h on. b. Penner bill M204 — f all fixed e lection a mendment a ct, 2011 b.

Simpson bill M205 — r esidential t enancy a mendment a ct, 2011 S. c handra h erbert Statements (Standing order 25b) ......................................................................................................................................... 6683 Motorcycle awareness h. b ains e. f oster first n ations treaty celebrations in kyuquot c. t revena a sian-c anadian heritage r . l ee Mount Pleasant c ommunity c entre J. kwan Mental health and work of nancy h all M.

MacDiarmid oral Questions ......................................................................................................................................................................... 6685 c ost of government information on harmonized sales tax a. Di x h on. k. f alcon impact of harmonized sales tax on families S. c handra h erbert h on. k. f alcon Job creation projections for harmonized sales tax J. kwan h on. k. f alcon Shellfish aquaculture and environmental review c. t revena h on. D. Mcr ae impact of proposed Vancouver island coal mine on shellfish industry c. t revena h on. D.

Mcr ae S. f raser Premier's announcements during by-election campaign D. r outley h on. S. c adieux Government position on supervised injection site M. f arnworth h on. M. de Jong t abling Documents ................................................................................................................................................................. 6689 WorkSafe b.c., annual report, 2010

Orders of the Day c ommittee of Supply .............................................................................................................................................................. 6690 e stimates: Ministry of Jobs, t ourism and innovation (continued) D. r outley h on. P . bell S. f raser G. Gentner b. Simpson J. kwan J. brar Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room c ommittee of Supply .............................................................................................................................................................. 6718 e stimates: Ministry of a griculture (continued) M. Sather h on. D. Mcr ae G. c oons l. Popha m

6681 thurSD a Y , MaY 5, 2011 The h ouse met at 1:35 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Routine Business Introductions by Members L. Popham: f or my curious friends across the way, i'm going to say the names of my guests first. i have Sebastian and Damien here visiting from Germany, along with my husband Jon.

They've joined our family for the next little while be - cause of an amazing program called WW oof , which stands for Willing Workers on organic f arms. it's a program that is offered to travellers around the world if they want to come and incorporate themselves into your family life and share in a little bit of farming, eat meals with your family and sort of learn about our culture. it's a fantastic program. by the end of the stay they usually are part of our family. Welcome to the house. D.

Hayer: it gives me great pleasure to introduce 54 students from grade 5, our future leaders who are vis - iting here from the Pacific a cademy, one of the best schools in c anada, from my riding of Surrey-t ynehead. Joining them are their teachers Mrs. n ancy bakken, Mrs. Sue u-Ming and Mrs. Sharon Van Dijk as well as 21 par- ents and volunteers who have taken time away from their busy

schedule to accompany these kids. Would the h ouse please make them very welcome. Hon. K. Falcon: it gives me great pleasure to inform the h ouse that today marks the international Day of the Midwife, an occasion that is celebrated in over 50 coun- tries around the world, including here in c anada. in recognition of this, i am pleased to inform the h ouse that here in british c olumbia the province has proclaimed today, May 5, as british c olumbia Midwives Day. in our province midwives are highly trained, univer - sity educated and publicly funded and regulated.

They are an important contributor to our health care sys - tem and deliver over 10 percent of the 40,000 babies delivered every year in british c olumbia. Midwifery care improves health outcomes and is evidence-based. Midwives are deeply committed to the health and well- being of mother, baby and family. t o help celebrate british c olumbia Midwives Day, greater Victoria midwives, their supporters and little ones are walking from c lover Point to the front steps of the l egislature today beginning at four.

Joining us here in the gallery today we have two midwives: k elly h ayes, who practises midwifery on Saltspring island, where 100 percent of the babies are born into the caring hands of midwives; and Michele buchmann, who is a longstanding midwife in greater Victoria, where approximately 30 percent of the births are assisted by a midwife. Would the h ouse please join me in giving a warm welcome to their visit to the l egislature. Hon. N. Y amamoto: i am pleased to introduce to the h ouse today the recently married staff person in the Premier's correspondence branch. h er name is Julie D'a rgis.

Will the members please congratulate her and make her welcome. C. Hansen: it gives me great pleasure to introduce two special guests who i had the pleasure of having lunch with today in the dining room. one is a very charm - ing young lady by the name of e llie Girard. She is nine months old, and she showed me during lunch today how she learned to clap very nicely. a nd of course, all polit - icians appreciate british c olumbians learning that at a very young age.

She is accompanied today by her mother Devon Girard, who was such a great help to me as exec - utive assistant in the years that i served in e conomic Development and finance. i hope that all members, with our clapping, will show e llie and Devon how much we appreciate them joining us here today. E. Foster: Joining us in the h ouse today is a longtime friend of mine and the mayor of Vernon. Would the h ouse please make h is Worship Mayor Wayne l ippert welcome. Introduction and First Reading of Bills bill 7 — MiScellaneou S Statute S aMenDMent act , 2011 h on. b.

Penner presented a message from h is h on- our the a dministrator: a bill intituled Miscellaneous Statutes a mendment a ct, 2011. [1340] Hon. B. Penner: i move that the bill be introduced and read a first time now. Motion approved. Hon. B. Penner: i'm pleased to introduce bill 7, the Miscellaneous Statutes a mendment a ct, 2011. This bill amends the following statutes: the a dult Guardianship and Planning Statutes a mendment a ct, 2007; the f amily Maintenance enforcement a ct; the c lean energy a ct; and the Ministry of environment a ct. The bill also

british c olumbia Debates6682 t hursday, May 5, 2011 makes a number of consequential housekeeping and clarifying amendments to other statutes. Mr. Speaker, i move that the bill be placed on the or - ders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the h ouse after today. bill 7, Miscellaneous Statutes a mendment a ct, 2011, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the h ouse after today. bill M204 — fall fiXeD election aMenDMent act , 2011 b. Simpson presented a bill intituled f all fixed e lec- tion a mendment a ct, 2011. B.

Simpson: i move that the bill be introduced and read a first time now. Motion approved. B. Simpson: This act amends the c onstitution a ct in order to bring greater transparency and account - ability to the budgeting process surrounding british c olumbia's fixed general election date. Moving the gen- eral election from May to o ctober will ensure that the provincial budget cannot be used for political purposes every four years. h aving elections in the fall will require the governing party to introduce a budget that accurately reflects the state of the government's finances and program priorities in the spring.

Moving the election date from May to o ctober would also ensure election year budgets are scrutinized by the opposition and the public and are passed into law, providing certainty to the public service and organizations that are dependent on government program spending. f all elections would also allow the public to access the comp- troller general's assessment of the government's finances presented to Public accounts in late June. This bill proposes that the first fall election be held on o ctober 11, 2012.

The current fixed election date is May 14, 2013, and it would be reasonable to hold the first fall election in o ctober 2013. h owever, there have been some indications from both the Premier and the opposition that an earlier election date is desirable. My hope is that o ctober 11, 2012, will be soon enough for both parties to seek new mandates while still respecting the principle of having fixed elec - tion dates. Mr.

Speaker, i move that the bill be placed on the or - ders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the h ouse after today. bill M204, f all fixed e lection a mendment a ct, 2011, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the h ouse after today. bill M205 — reS iDential tenancY aMenDMent a ct, 2011 S. c handra h erbert presented a bill intituled r esiden- tial t enancy a mendment a ct, 2011. S. Chandra Herbert: i move the bill be introduced and read a first time now. Motion approved. S.

Chandra Herbert: i rise today to ask each and every member of this h ouse for their support for the r esidential t enancy a mendment a ct, 2011. This is a bill for renters who've withstood incredible odds and an imbalance of power to fight to stay in their homes. it's a bill for residents of the Seafield, who with - stood attempts to jack up rents 73 percent through the geographic area increase clause and the same landlord's attempt to drive them out through phony renovations.

This is a bill for the residents of emerald t errace, where they had to fight fake renovation attempts again and again just to stay in their homes. it's a bill for thousands of british c olumbians who are unknown, who've been forced out of their homes because of a few landlords who abuse loopholes in the legislation. a lso, they can get around the law and drive up rents. it says no to massively jacking up rents for renters. it puts into law what is there in spirit. it says no to big landlord companies who try to evict long-term tenants under the pretext that it's for use of a landlord, when there are actually other suites available.

This bill says yes to the vast majority of landlords and renters who do follow the rules and maintain long-term relationships based on trust, a home based on peace and quiet enjoyment, and a steady income for the property owner. it follows some of what the o ntario l iberal government has had in place for years to protect renters. a s members will know, there are a number of other steps needed to balance the rights and responsibilities of landlords and tenants, but this bill is a good first step. it could be passed into law this week or next week to im - mediately protect long-term tenants who are currently living under the threat of mass eviction or massive rent hikes because of an unbalanced and unfair r esidential t enancy a ct. i hope members of this h ouse will think of their constituents and unite to pass this bill. i move this bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of this h ouse after today. [1345]

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, May 5, 2011 6683 bill M205, r esidential t enancy a mendment a ct, 2011, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the h ouse after today. Statements (Standing Order 25B) MotorcY cle a WareneSS H. Bains: May is Motorcycle a wareness Month. t o kick off Motorcycle a wareness Month today, the b.c. c oalition of Motorcyclists organized their 21st annual Mla r ide.

This public awareness campaign started May 1 to convey the importance of being aware of motorcycle drivers who share our roads. a s the weather warms up, we are asking drivers to take extra caution and watch for motorcyclists. in urban areas crashes involving motorcycles often occur at intersections involving an oncoming vehicle. in rural areas there are more single-vehicle accidents where motorcyclists lose control and run off the road due to higher speeds.

When driving we must be extra cautious of our sur - roundings, especially when turning at intersections. a lways be alert to see if there are motorcycles in traffic. k eep in mind that motorcycles are smaller than cars and trucks and more difficult to see. We must be extremely vigilant at this time of the year when motorcyclists are starting to join us on roads and highways. We need to put ourselves in the same mindset as, when our students go back to school in September, we retrain ourselves to slow down in school zones.

Motorcyclists and their associations are reminding themselves to re - member to abide by the posted speed limits, as they know that unsafe speed puts you at a greater risk. Slow down and watch other traffic in intersections. be sure that traffic sees you. Do not drive in their blind spots. Wear bright clothing and reflective material and keep your headlights on at all times.

Please join with me to thank the b.c. c oalition of Motorcyclists for organizing the Mla r ide to kick off Motorcycle a wareness Month. it certainly will bring awareness to drivers to be extra careful of their sur - roundings. it will save lives and reduce injuries to our motorcyclists in british c olumbia. E. Foster: i rise today to discuss a very important matter, which has just been brought up. May is motor - cycle safety month in british c olumbia. a s a longtime motorcycle owner and operator, i certainly applaud the initiatives of the b.c. c oalition of Motorcyclists.

They do a tremendous job in bringing awareness to the gen - eral public regarding motorcycle safety. Motorcycles are growing in popularity around the world but perhaps especially so in b.c. a ccording to icbc, there are over 90,000 motorcycles registered in british c olumbia, a number that continues to rise. This is why raising awareness of motorcycle safety is vitally important. Motorcyclists are seven times more likely to be killed in a crash than other road users. t oday many of my fellow members from both sides enjoyed a brief tour around downtown Victoria and James bay.

The british c olumbia c oalition of Motorcyclists was good enough to come out each year and take every - one for a ride and let everybody experience what it's like to be on a motorcycle. This annual event gives Mla s and their staff a glimpse of the passions they have for their amazing pieces of machinery. The bcco M does great work advocating for motor - cyclists' rights in our province.

This is a membership- driven organization, and they have become instrumental in promotion of motorcycle safety, education and awareness in british c olumbia. bcco M has worked hard to raise the profile of the motorcycle community from simply driving in and between the cities all the way to racing and off-road riding.

Most important, however, is their excellent and on - going work to promote safety. i hope all members of this assembly will join me in thanking the bcco M for the great work they do for motorcycle enthusiasts and their families in british c olumbia. fir St nation S treat Y celebration S in k Yu Quot C. Trevena: on a wet spring night several hundred people sat in a school gym at kyuquot watching the clock until midnight.

The day had been spent with dan - cing, the sharing of family songs, speeches, gift-giving and feasts. a t midnight on March 31 going into a pril 1, silence descended. babies were hushed, and children and their parents, aunties and elders watched as hereditary chiefs and elected councillors of the k a:'yu:'k't'h'-c he:k:tles7et'h' first n ation signed their first piece of legislation, which took them from subjects under the indian a ct to people with the ability for self-determination. [1350] it was the effective date for their treaty.

When asked by the elected chief councillor whether anyone wanted to speak, one councillor simply said, "i'm free; i'm free." it was a refrain which echoed around the room and then, through the coming days, through the community.

The celebration moved outside, fireworks were set off, and as people left the hall, they were given a page from the indian a ct to add to the flames on the bonfire. a few hours later the waters of kyuquot Sound and 70- plus kilometres of the logging road to h ighway 19 were busy as the community moved almost en masse to Port a lberni, where there was a celebration for all five Maa- nulth n ations to mark their treaty's effective date.

british c olumbia Debates6684 t hursday, May 5, 2011 it had been a long time coming. Y ears of negotiations resulting in 2007 with bill 45 before this h ouse, where we agreed to their treaty. Most here will remember the historic occasion when the chiefs of the Maa-nulth n ations addressed this l egislature. There were cele - brations in the community too — which, as the now Minister of h ealth will attest to, were joyous and mov - ing. but none of us who were at the school gym in kyuquot will forget the power and emotion of a people who are now free.

The k a:'yu:'k't'h'-c he:k:tles7et'h' know they still have a long way to go, but the dynamic is now different. They're working for their own future, their own way. it is a journey, they're all in the canoe, and they are pad - dling together. a Sian-canaD ian herita Ge R.

Lee: back in 2001, a Senate motion officially desig- nated May as a sian h eritage Month across the country. a sian h eritage Month is a time to celebrate the long and rich history of a sian-c anadian communities and the contributions that members of these communities have made to british c olumbia and to c anada. o ur province is home to hundreds of thousands of a sian c anadians who trace their origins back to coun - tries from the black Sea all the way to the shores of the Pacific o cean. The cultural backgrounds of these cit - izens are diverse and rich.

The traditions and festivals that they have brought with them have enriched cities and towns throughout b.c . a s Parliamentary Secretary for Multiculturalism and as someone who immigrated to this great country, i feel it's important for us to cele - brate this. it's also important to reflect on the tremendous eco - nomic advantages we derive from multiculturalism. The connections and cultural understanding that so many of our citizens possess are extraordinary advantages for b.c. as we compete in the global marketplace. This is an- other reason to celebrate. Mr.

Speaker, every year in Metro Vancouver the ex - plora sian f estival celebrates a sian h eritage Month with events for everyone. Presented by the Vancouver a sian h eritage Month Society, the theme is "Many cul - tures, many languages, one celebration." This is not only a great description of the diversity of a sian commun - ities in british c olumbia. This is also a great description of british c olumbia itself — a place that truly celebrates diversity. Mount Plea Sant co MMunit Y centre J.

Kwan: i would like to take this opportunity to celebrate the first anniversary of the official opening of the new Mount Pleasant c ommunity c entre in my constituency. The centre is an innovative and shining civic cen - tre that brings together our community's residents for a range of valued activities and services. This unique mixed-use project, completed by the city of Vancouver, combines several community facilities with market rental housing in a tower above.

The centre opened to the public in December of 2009 and replaced the old centre on West 16th avenue. i was pleased to attend the official opening ceremony about a year ago and since then have been bringing my children there to enjoy the centre. Several important community services and activities are together under one roof at the landmark site of 1 k ingsway, including a multipurpose community centre, a branch of Vancouver's public library, a fitness centre and a state-of-the-art daycare centre.

The commun - ity centre features a gym, climbing wall, dance studio, multipurpose rooms and rooftop outdoor community space. The second-floor daycare has access to secure outdoor play space with wonderful views. [1355] During its first full year of operation, there were over one million visits to the centre. The community centre opened and reportedly had 525,000 users, double the number of the users at the previous centre. The fitness centre is active and well-used throughout the day, drawing attendance of over 126,000 people in one year.

The daycare has been at capacity since it opened on its first day of operation. The library has seen an aver- age of 1,500 patrons per day, which is nearly double the number of patrons at the library's previous location. i invite all members of the h ouse to join me in con - gratulating the Mount Pleasant c ommunity c entre on its first anniversary and wishing the board and staff con- tinuing success in the future. Mental health anD Work of nanc Y hall M. MacDiarmid: h on. Speaker, May 1 to 7 is Mental h ealth Week in c anada. This year is the 60th anniver - sary of Mental h ealth Week.

This week is a time for all of us to learn, talk, reflect and engage with each other on the many issues relating to mental health. We've made some great strides in the past decades, yet there is still a lack of understanding of mental health, and for some, there is a stigma attached to having a mental health problem.

We need greater understand - ing and acceptance, and we can all play a role in that. a ny one of us or a family member could be affected by a problem with mental health. one in five c anadians will have such a problem in their lifetime, and the impact can be profound. t oday i want to honour a dear friend and one of my constituents who was an untiring and devoted advocate for people with mental illness. Dr. n ancy h all died in

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, May 5, 2011 6685 March of this year. She has left a great legacy and is a stellar example of how one person can make a difference. She's greatly missed. n ancy had a wonderful spirit, sense of optimism and incredible drive. She connected people in a marvel - lous way and worked tirelessly for what she believed in. a lways generous with her time and her knowledge, one of her great gifts to me was to help me better under - stand mental health problems and what they can mean to people and families who are affected. She was filled with humanity and compassion.

She had two beautiful children who lit up her life.

She was a loving mother, daughter, sister, aunt and friend, and the celebration of her life was truly a joyous occasion. in 2010 n ancy was honoured by the c anadian Mental h ealth a ssociation when she received their highest award, the c .M. h incks a ward. n ancy was a spectacular person who made this world a better place. h er hope and love for family and friends, her optimism and her life that demonstrates how one person can make a tremendous difference — these are some of the gifts she's left us as a legacy. it was a joy and a privilege to have known her. i ask the h ouse to join me in celebrating and acknow- ledging the life and contributions of Dr. nancy h all.

Oral Questions co St of Go Vern Ment infor Mation on harM oniZeD SaleS taX A. Dix: My question is to the Minister of finance, and that question is about the initiative, the hS t , the tax formally known by the b.c. l iberals as the single most important thing we can do for the b.c. economy, now exposed as a $1.3 billion tax increase on b.c. families. n ow, the minister has had a week. Perhaps he can tell us how much public funds…. it's bad enough that fam - ilies have to pay this thing. c an the minister tell us how much they have to pay for him to provide misleading information about the hS t? Hon. K.

Falcon: i told the l eader of the o pposition that as soon as i get that number, i'm going to present it publicly and make sure that everyone in this h ouse and outside knows exactly what that number will be. but i'll tell you what we won't do. i will tell you what we will not do. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. K. Falcon: We will not do what the l eader of the o pposition did when he was chief of staff under the Glen c lark government. h e went out and said that they were going to have a $2.3 million campaign to promote the n isga'a agreement and actually spent $7.8 million.

That's what he did when he was the architect of one of the worst governments in the history of the province of british c olumbia. [1400] interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. The l eader of the o pposition has a supplemental. A. Dix: Well, it's surprising to me that the Minister of finance would intentionally bring up one of the most shameful moments in the history of the l iberal Party — their lawsuit against the n isga'a people, where the b.c. l iberal government decided that the b.c. l iberal Party wouldn't have to pay their costs. it's shameful. n ow, my question to them is this.

The wizard of the accounts over there can surely tell us, since the report has rendered his assumptions about the hS t inaccur - ate…. That's what the report did yesterday. They said that all the things that he's been using public funds to tell the public about the hS t are essentially wrong — a $1.3 billion tax increase on families. Surely he can tell us how much it's going to cost. Surely he doesn't spend money first and budget later. Hon. K.

Falcon: i've told the member opposite, on numerous occasions now, that that's exactly what i'm going to do, and the moment i know that, i'm going to let the member know. but i'll also say this. l ast night one of the things we were doing was engaging in a listening exercise with british c olumbians to see how we might improve the hS t , to see how we might reduce or even eliminate some of that impact on families. in fact, last night, my - self and the Minister of Jobs, t ourism and innovation and the Minister of t ransportation collectively held telephone town hall meetings with over 78,000 british c olumbians who participated.

What that tells me is that actually british c olumbians are very much engaged in wanting information and wanting to talk and listen to their ministers and to pro - vide input on how we can improve the hS t . That's exactly what we are going to do on this side of the house. Mr. Speaker: The l eader of the o pposition has a fur- ther supplemental. A. Dix: The minister is phoning up the public on their dime. h e's not paying for it. The b.c. l iberal Party isn't paying for it. h e's phoning up on their dime to give them misleading information about the hS t .

That's what's go- ing on here — a $1.3 billion tax increase on families, his previous assumption…

british c olumbia Debates6686 t hursday, May 5, 2011 interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. A. Dix: …a burning pyre on the ground. That's what's happened here. The people of b.c. know. t o put it in hockey terms, he's on the side of the owners, and we're on the side of the fans with respect to the hS t . Surely there was a budget. There was a budget when the government…. i mean, b .c. families…. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Member, just…. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. c ontinue, Member. A. Dix: h on.

Speaker, a 50 percent increase in hydro rates, three consecutive increases in MSP premiums on families, massive increases on ferry fares, vulnerable seniors paying more in long-term-care fees and now a $1.3 billion tax increase on b.c. families. f amilies first? They call this families first? Why don't you tell b.c. fam - ilies how much they're paying for your propaganda campaign on the hS t? Hon. K. Falcon: Well, isn't this rich. The architect of the worst government in b.c . history, that had the highest tax rates in n orth a merica, trying to pretend he's on the side of families. Well, that is really rich.

So let me just…. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Just sit down for a second. it's your time, Members. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. c ontinue, Minister. [1405] Hon. K. Falcon: boy, it is rich to listen to the l eader of the o pposition pretend he's on the side of families when it comes to tax burden. a ll the member has to do…. i know they never read budgets, but just go into the 2011 budget in appendix a3. it actually compares the total tax burden.

That includes hS t . it includes personal income tax, child benefits, property taxes, consumption taxes — all included. h ere's what it was for a senior couple earning $30,000 under the nDP in the 1990s: $3,391, all taxes in. u nder the b.c. l iberals in 2011, that same senior is earning $30,000: $2,417. f or a family of four earning $30,000, all taxes in, under the nDP and under the b.c. l iberals, a 44 percent reduction in overall taxes. a nd that was the architect of the worst government in the history of the province of british c olumbia. iMPact of harM oniZeD SaleS taX on faMilieS S.

Chandra Herbert: The hS t report released yes - terday claims the average family will pay $350 more under the h St , and that number was spread far and wide in the media. but as with everything with the b.c . l iberals, you have to read the fine print. it turns out, down at the bottom of the report, that it says a family could be defined as one person — a family of one per - son paying, on average, $350. My question is to the finance Minister. isn't the report really saying that the average cost is $350 per person? So an average family of four could be paying $1,400. Hon. K.

Falcon: i'll try and make this simple for the member. That is an average. That means it will be less for those that have lower incomes; it will be more for those that have higher incomes. n ews flash for the nDP: if you earn more money, you're probably pay - ing more h St . i thought that's what the n DP always cared about — that the rich people should pay more.

They do under a consumption tax. it was pointed out in that same report that 40 percent of the h St is paid by people earning over $100,000 a year. but i'll tell you that what i'm really interested in is the other part of the independent panel report that they haven't been talking about — that is, if we go back to the l eader of the o pposition's choice, which is going back to the PS t , that blows a hole of almost $3 billion over the next couple of years in the provincial budget. i'd like to know how they are going to square that with their promises to increase spending in every single ministry of government, still balance the budget and do it with almost $3 billion less revenue.

That's what i'd like to know from the nDP . interjections. Mr. Speaker: Just take your seat for a second, Member. There are other people that want to ask questions. Member, continue. S. Chandra Herbert: Well, i can understand why the finance Minister doesn't want to answer the ques - tion. Statistics c anada refuses to acknowledge a family of one. only the b.c. l iberals would say family first was really me first. That's the b.c . l iberals' version of family first.

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, May 5, 2011 6687 a gain to the minister. it says at the bottom of the re - port, in fine print, a family can be defined as one person. So basing that on that statement, is the real cost per per- son $350, on average, as the report asserts? [1410] Hon. K. Falcon: a nother uncomfortable fact for the nDP . e ven with the introduction of the hS t , as i men - tioned, if you look at total tax burden, and i think it's appropriate to do that — MSP premiums, property taxes, income taxes, hS t , total tax burden on average families in british c olumbia — what you will find….

Don't take my word for it. it's in the budget. They can go read it. They never do, but they should read the budget. Y ou will find the second-lowest overall tax burden in the country right here in british c olumbia. n ow let's be clear what the choice of the l eader of the o pposition and the nDP is. They have what i call the tax trifecta.

(1) They want to go back to a PSt , and they're going to have to explain how they're going to do all their spend - ing with $2.7 billion less income. That will be fascinating to watch.

(2) They want to raise small business taxes by 80 per - cent and general corporate taxes by 20 percent.

(3) They want to reinstate the corporate capital tax, one of the worst job killers in the history of taxation. That's the nDP plan. That's a job killer. We're about growing the economy, growing jobs, growing revenues and supporting social services. That's what we're doing on this side of the h ouse. Job creation Pro JectionS for harM oniZeD SaleS taX J. Kwan: i'll tell the minister an uncomfortable fact.

That would be the Jack Mintz report. it turns out the government's own hS t guru, Jack Mintz, is wrong. h e's not just a little bit off of his job projections; he is off by 88,000 jobs. a nd the l iberal cabinet ministers and back- bench Mla s have been misleading british c olumbians with their misinformation from the Jack Mintz report. That would be another uncomfortable fact. e ven today, though, it doesn't stop there. it doesn't stop there, because even today in the government's own supposedly impartial and factual websites, those web - sites still provide for those misleading figures.

Why is the minister still continuing to mislead british c olumbians about those figures? Hon. K. Falcon: So you've got one highly respected independent economist, Jack Mintz, that's talking about the potential for 113,000 jobs to be created.

We have a second independent panel report that comes out and suggests that there could be over 24,000 new jobs created. but i will say this. i don't know whether it's 24,000 or whether it's 113,000, but i do know one thing. i do know that under the nDP plan to go back to the PSt , the only new jobs created will be the 300 tax auditors that the province has to hire to go after british c olumbians, investigating PS t audits. That's all that's going to be happening under the nDP . W e are about creating private sector jobs.

They want 300 civil servants hired, at a cost of over $30 million a year, to do the paperwork on PSt so that we could reimpose $150 million in compliance costs on small business to do the paperwork for the PSt and the paperwork for the GS t . That's the nDP approach. That's not our approach. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. J. Kwan: Maybe the minister would like to do this math: 24,000 jobs over ten years, at the cost of $1.33 bil- lion to the consumers per year. That's over $54,000 per job for the consumers per year. [1415] n ow, i like to see new jobs created in the economy.

The problem is the minister doesn't know what he's talking about. i don't trust him, and neither will british c olumbians, with these incorrect facts. Will the minister at least do this? Will the minister cor- rect the misinformation on his own government website and tell british c olumbians the truth for a change? Hon. K. Falcon: it's a little tough to take job creation advice from a member who was part of a government that was an economic wrecking crew in the 1990s. i mean, let's be clear.

The l eader of the o pposition was the chief of staff who led a government that took b.c., for the first time in our history, to have-not-province status — meaning we had to take money, transfer pay - ments, from other provinces because our economy was doing so badly. i am not going to take any economic ad- vice from those folks across the aisle.

What i will do is celebrate a tax change that will gen - erate tens of thousands of new jobs in british c olumbia, that brings hope to families, that grows our economies, that grows revenues to support important social services like health care, like education, like all the things those members opposite purport to care about. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Shellfi Sh a Quaculture an D enVironMental re Vie W C. Trevena: My question is to the Minister of a griculture. h is primary role in shellfish aquaculture is assistance in marketing b.c. shellfish products. i'd

british c olumbia Debates6688 t hursday, May 5, 2011 like to know whether the minister agrees that a healthy shellfish aquaculture industry requires a rigorous en - vironmental review. Hon. D.

McRae: i'd like to thank the member opposite for giving me the first opportunity to stand and respond to a question in these very distinguished chambers. i'm incredibly proud of this province's environmental standards that we've put forward in the last ten years. it is so refreshing to have a province that respects the environment, does the best to make sure we encourage economic growth at the same time. it is the complete opposite of what the members opposite did during their ten years in office. interjections. Mr. Speaker: t ake your seat. Members.

The member has a supplemental. iMPact of Pro Po Se D Vancou Ver iSlan D coal Mine on Shellfi Sh in Du Str Y C. Trevena: h aving given the minister an opportun - ity to have his first question, i'd hoped that he'd give the h ouse his first answer too. i was asking the Minister of a griculture about en - vironmental standards on shellfish aquaculture because there's a proposed coal mine in the minister's own rid - ing five kilometres from the richest and most prolific shellfish beds in b.c., in baynes Sound.

There are legit- imate concerns about the impact of heavy metals from the mine leaching into those beds. a s Mla, he has ignored the issue, and it's now his min- isterial responsibility. So will he continue to dismiss the demands of the residents of the c omox Valley, who want a full, independent and rigorous environmental review? [1420] Hon. D.

McRae: it is nice to know that the member opposite, who is my constituency neighbour, is basic - ally acknowledging the good repartee we have going here today. first of all, you're right. baynes Sound is one of the most important aquaculture places, not just in british columbia but in this nation — hands down.

With $24 million go - ing out of the baynes Sound into the economy of british columbia, it is something that we are desperate to protect in this province, and i'm committed to doing that. i'm not about to play politics with the environment. r ight now, that project is at the pre –environmental assessment phase. it isn't even, i'm sure the member knows, within my ministry at this stage. a t this stage i'm not going to prejudge what's going to come out of that. it is before the environmental assessment review panel, and we're going to make sure that we don't play politics. if it goes forward for the coal mine, it is something that the applicant can do as they go through the process. but no, not for one second do i want to see the shell - fish industry in this province prejudiced by actions like you're implying.

S. Fraser: a nd i'm the Mla bounding the southern edge of your riding, hon. Minister. The livelihood of hundreds of families in the shell - fish industry in baynes Sound is at risk. i would think that the minister would want the most rigorous stan - dards of environmental protection put in place because of that. a ll local governments within his riding are demand - ing an independent expert review panel with public hearings. a ny heavy metals released from the proposed coal mine would kill all shellfish export from baynes Sound, would kill the industry in baynes Sound.

Why has he ignored his mandate as minister responsible to market shellfish? Hon. D. McRae: it's funny. a s an Mla, the b.c. Shellfish a ssociation, which actually is based in my rid - ing, didn't come to see me. h owever, when i became the Minister of a griculture, i was proactive, and i decided that — you know what? — since they're not coming to me, i'm going to them to hear their concerns. i made an appointment, i saw their executive director, i've heard their concerns, and i am listening. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. S.

Fraser: i'm sure they were very happy with the outcome of that meeting. i have attended five standing- room-only public meetings in this minister's riding, and he was absent at every one of them, even with…. h e's been ducking this issue as Mla; now he's ducking it as a minister.

We're talking about the richest shellfish beds in british c olumbia, and we're apparently talking about a b.c. l iberal government that has no interest in protecting them, to say nothing of the hundreds of jobs that sup - port the families in his constituency. n ow, will the minister commit today to ensure that a significant industrial project that could have grave im - pacts will not go ahead without a full public hearing and a rigorous, independent, expert review panel? Hon. D. McRae: i'm sure the member opposite well knows that we're in the pre-consultation period for the environmental assessment.

You know, i feel like i'm sitting up here answering a question which the members opposite obviously know is not to do with my ministry.

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, May 5, 2011 6689 h owever, don't think for one second that i don't have the belief that the agriculture industry in my region, as in all parts of british c olumbia, is hugely import - ant. This is an industry which is sustainable, provides jobs — tens of millions of dollars for families across this province. We will protect this resource with the highest environmental standards possible. it is absolutely es - sential.

These are sustainable jobs that will last for generations, and i am committed to protecting those jobs and that industry for as long as i'm around — and my children. [1425] Pre Mier 'S announce Ment S Durin G bY-election ca MPai Gn D. Routley: c andidate c lark in a by-election in Vancouver–Point Grey has made a number of announce- ments in that constituency. Y esterday in estimates for the Ministry of citizens' Services, it became clear that public servants were used in the planning and imple - mentation of those events. This candidate also happens to be the b.c. l iberal leader.

My question is for the Minister of l abour, citizens' Services and o pen Government. Did she or any other minister seek advice from e lections b.c. as to whether those government resources should be costed as part of her election campaign? Hon. S. Cadieux: Well, the Premier, as she should, is fulfilling her obligations as the Premier and making announcements that benefit all of british c olumbia, including things like raising the minimum wage, elim - inating parking fees in parks and support for r onald McDonald h ouse. These are fabulous things for the people of british c olumbia.

Government is making great announcements, and of course the Premier of the province is making those announcements. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. D. Routley: These announcements are occurring in a riding, in a constituency, where she is a can - didate in a by-election.

Given the serious ongoing concerns regarding a previous b.c. l iberal campaign in Vancouver-fraserview, i would think an abundance of caution would be in order for this government. t o the Minister of citizens' Services: if advice was not sought from e lections b.c. on whether government resources should be used in the Premier's by-election campaign in Vancouver–Point Grey, why not? Hon. S. Cadieux: The Premier is making announce - ments on behalf of government, as she should. She is the leader of this province. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. c ontinue, Minister. Hon. S.

Cadieux: o ur professional public servants in government communications and public engagement are responsible for ensuring that british c olumbians re- ceive accurate information about these announcements, and they're going to continue to do so. Go VernMent PoS ition on SuP er ViSeD inJection Site M. Farnworth: The previous Minister of h ealth was very supportive of insite in Vancouver. a fter the recent federal election, statements by the…. interjections. M.

Farnworth: There have been a lot of you. but for once, despite there being a lot, they did have a common position: that insite is an important part of health care delivery in the province of british c olumbia. The day after the election in which the c onservatives achieved a majority, the statements from senior b.c. MPs were that the federal government is going to take a long, hard look at insite to see whether it's in the best interests of the community.

My question to the Minister of h ealth is this: (1) is insite still part of the government's health strategy, and (2) what specific steps is the government taking to in - form the federal government that insite is a key part of health delivery and strategy in dealing with addictions in the province of british c olumbia? Hon.

M. de Jong: Thank you to the hon. member for the question. i can assure him and members of the h ouse and british c olumbians that the position of the government of british c olumbia has not changed inso - far as discussions that may occur and will occur with the federal government. i suspect that i will at least await the appointment of a federal Minister of h ealth, and those discussions will commence. but he can be assured that the position of this government has not changed. [1430] [end of question period.] Tabling Documents Hon. S. Cadieux: h on.

Members, i have the honour to table the annual report… interjections.

british c olumbia Debates6690 t hursday, May 5, 2011 Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. S. Cadieux: …of WorkSafe b .c. Orders of the Day Hon. R. Coleman: in this h ouse, in the l egislative a ssembly, we will continue with the estimates of the Minister of Jobs, t ourism and innovation, and in c om- mittee a we will continue the estimates of the Minister of a griculture. Committee of Supply e Sti Mate S: Mini Str Y of Job S, touri SM an D inno Vation (continued) The h ouse in c ommittee of Supply (Section b); l. r eid in the chair. The committee met at 2:34 p.m. on Vote 33: ministry operations, $236,513,000 (con- tinued).

D.

Routley: before we ended this debate for our lunch break and for question period, i asked the minis - ter a question about the e &n r ailway and the fact that the roadbed and track has come to such poor condition that passenger services have been suspended. i asked him if he thought it was a wise use of the islands t rust money to upgrade stations and other accessories and adornments along the rail line without addressing the core fundamental health of its capacity to move passen - gers — its safety. [1435] i realize that the minister needs to be acquainted with the history of the railway and the current hist - ory of the management of the railway to really give a wholesome answer. but i would ask him that passen - ger service on Vancouver island provided by the e &n r ailway — whether he perceives that as a high value in terms of marketing tourism and whether he would be prepared to join the advocacy that is seeking funding from all levels of government to repair the railway and restore passenger rail service.

Hon. P .

Bell: t hanks to the member opposite for the question. t here are some tremendous success stories around railway tourism here, particularly in british c olumbia. the Rocky Mountaineer has been an incredible success. but that is based on a specific product, a specific quality of product, and the need to make sure that it can be provided consistently to the consumer. it has been early days in my entry into this position. i have been following along the issue of the e&n r ailway, and i have met with Minister of t ransportation and infrastructure, who is lead on this particular file. i think a properly run railway corridor can add to tourism val - ues, whether it's here on Vancouver island or in other parts of british c olumbia as well.

D. Routley: The railway is a spectacular piece of b.c. history. it is the railway that was never new. Dunsmuir built it to service the coal mines. The bridge over n iagara c anyon here in Goldstream was recycled from cisco in the f raser c anyon where the two railways crossed, when traffic became too heavy there. it was the first place on the cP r where diesel loco - motives were used and also the last place where steam locomotives were used. it has a long and proud history, and it is essential to our tourism industry.

When i ride it, i meet people from all over the world on that railway, so i think it's essential that it be restored. n ow that it is owned by the island c orridor f oundation — which is a coalition of island communities, first n ations — it is really important to those of us on the island that it be restored. i would ask the minister one more time if he would actively join as a petitioner and add his weight to the effort to lobby all levels of government to bring the ne - cessary funding to restore the passenger rail service. it is not an extraordinary amount of money. it's estimated to be between $15 million and $20 million to restore the trackage. if that is accomplished, we will have the op - portunity for commuter rail as well as servicing more options, such as along the lines of what the minister has described. it would service tourism more.

Hon. P .

Bell: Just before i try to respond to the question, i should reintroduce my staff. t o my immediate left is my deputy minister, Dana h ayden. t o my immediate right is acting a ssistant Deputy Minister Gordon borgstrom, and to his right is exec Director Greg Goodwin. a gain, to answer the question, first of all, i do believe that rail tourism is an opportunity and something we need to build on. i've seen success stories. i've also seen failures, frankly, on rail tourism that have been unsuccessful for a lack of capital and a lack of quality of product. it's pretty clear to me that kind of a commuter low- end rail service is not something that will be successful and attract tourists to it, but a properly developed busi - ness plan around a rail system that is attractive certainly has lots of potential.

The member describes some historical references with regards to the e&n r ailway. i think those are some of the good reasons why one should contemplate a detailed economic strategy around how a high-end tourism- related product can be built. i don't actually think that's what is currently envisaged by the proponents. i am only

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, May 5, 2011 6691 basing that on media reports, not on any information that i have beyond that. Perhaps in the coming weeks the member opposite and i can find some time for coffee, and he can fill me in a bit more. o bviously, he has a very good understand - ing of the e&n rail lands, and if there's something i can do to help support a business strategy that would lead to a high-end, good-quality tourism product, i'd certainly entertain that. [1440] D. Routley: i certainly welcome that invitation.

Some of the plans that are underway regarding the e&n were things like to offer steam excursion and din - ner trips that are along the lines of what the minister has described in conjunction with the b.c. f orest Discovery c entre perhaps, which operates steam trains on its property.

They have been asked informally by the island c orridor f oundation whether they would be willing to participate in that sort of engagement. i look forward to being able to speak to the minister about that. a nother concern regarding tourism that has a trans - portation component to it in our island communities is the issue of the small ferry runs. i realize that is not directly related to this minister's portfolio, but my constituency has the most ferry terminals of any ferry constituency.

Most of them service our small islands, and those islands are heavily dependent on the ability or the attractiveness of that transportation option in order to develop their tourism businesses. Many of my constituents who operate small busi - nesses on the small Gulf islands are suffering because of the increased ferry fares. h as the minister considered any options that his ministry could assist in addressing some of those obstacles to developing tourism businesses? Hon. P .

Bell: This question was canvassed by an ear - lier member, but i'll just try and repeat my answer. i understand there is great concern amongst island busi - nesses as well as residents on some of the smaller islands, as well as some of the major routes, about ferry fares. i can, i believe, confirm for the member opposite that the Minister of t ransportation has been engaged with the ferries commissioner in talking to the ferries commissioner about the costs associated and if there are ways to mitigate increasing costs over time.

More detailed responses would be better pursued with the Minister of t ransportation and infrastructure. but cer- tainly i've met with the minister, and we've discussed the situation, and he knows my concerns. D. Routley: Thank you, Minister. it's funny that on Vancouver island, most of our tourism alternatives in - volve some form of transportation. There's the railway, and there's the island h ighway. There are the ferry op - tions, but there's also an extensive network of trails. The t rans c anada t rail is an integral part of our out - door tourism option that we offer to people.

So i would ask the minister what programs are being offered to de - velop and support the trail infrastructure on the island. Hon. P . Bell: The specific operational issues as it re - lates to trails and trail management lay with the Minister of f orests, l ands and n atural r esource o perations. but i will tell the member opposite, as i've stated previously in the h ouse, that we're currently looking at the tour - ism product that we offer here in british c olumbia to try and better understand what makes us unique, what makes us different and what the major international selling features would be.

Pretty clearly, beautiful b.c. and the wilderness that we have is one of the key elements of that, but we want to make sure that we build a better package, working with industry and creating specific interests. i think trails, back-country tourism and some of the associated features will probably be one of the areas that is very important from a b.c. tourism perspective, but it is still in the early days of my responsibility for this port- folio. So we are doing that analysis right now. f or this summer it'll be status quo.

The level of ac - tivity on our trail systems, the systems that we operate them under in terms of Ministry of f orests, l ands and n atural r esource o perations, will continue. but we cer- tainly are contemplating this as one of the opportunity areas. a s we move forward over the coming months, i'll be happy to keep the member opposite informed. [1445] S. Fraser: h ello to the minister and your staff. i'll try to be very brief here. i've got two issues, both dealing with trusts — sort of different issues, though. The first one. The Skeetchestn indian band has a signifi- cant problem.

Their location, their traditional territory, is within the boundaries of the n orthern Development initiative t rust. h owever, they could arguably be within the Southern interior Development initiative t rust. but they seem to be in neither. The issue has been brought up apparently previously by the band. They seem to be caught in the middle of an interjurisdictional problem. it could be very awk - ward if their traditional territory that's in the n orthern t rust boundaries is not recognized as such. That severely hinders their chances for economic development, and indeed it appears to already.

They did put in an application a couple of years ago now on a value-added incubator. a s the minister notes from his previous portfolio, small scale for basic lumber production is very important in the region for the band. They were turned down, it looks like at least in part, be - cause of this interjurisdictional boundary problem. i'm just wondering if the minister has any solutions or if he'd be willing to look into this on behalf of the band.

british c olumbia Debates6692 t hursday, May 5, 2011 Hon. P . Bell: i don't have any information on that specific issue, but i'd be happy to look into it and report back to the member opposite. S. Fraser: Thanks to the minister for that. The second and final issue is…. it's dealing with, i guess, it could be all the trusts, but specifically the island c oastal e conomic t rust. i'm just curious.

The new Premier has stated that she's looking to review these trusts — how they they're run, how they're organized, what their criteria are. i'm curious as to what that will cover. i'll get to a specific issue that i found of great concern. There was an initiative in Port a lberni that was being proposed, and they applied to the trust. i'm on the ad - visory committee. a s the minister knows, the Mla s are all on the advisory committee. This was for the Pacific c oast u niversity for Workplace h ealth Sciences in Port a lberni that was being proposed at the time.

Port a lberni, as you know, has had significant eco - nomic downturn — 5,000 people once not that long ago in the forest industry down to less than 1,000 now. So this economic diversification, a potential university — very exciting. it was one that was agreed to by all sides of the h ouse, i am pleased to see, in a bipartisan, non- partisan way a couple of years ago. So they went to the island t rust for money. They put in a proposal.

Significant work and resources were used to do that. it was a unanimous decision by the advisory board to endorse this very enthusiastically. i've never seen that level of support before. The entire advisory committee said yes and move it forward post-haste. it didn't get post-haste. it got mired for over a year. The proponent actually ended up spending a quarter of a million dollars trying to meet a never-ending moving set of goalposts, and eventually it failed.

We can argue about that, whether that was good or not, but the pro - ponent lost a significant amount of resources as opposed to gaining it. it was contrary to the net economic contribution that the trust has mandated to do. but it gets worse. The building was…. Part of the funding was coming from federal money. The most stringent criteria for applica - tion acceptance under the kiP proposal federally…. They accepted this one. The university is now at the point where it's just about up and running. The building is in place. it's a wonderful thing.

The economic development that will flow from that — not as much as if they had got the support of the island t rust, as we thought would happen — would fit into every criteria that the island t rust had. it was supported by the mayor and the regional district and everything else, but it failed. is there any ability to scrutinize and review this from the minister's level when something goes wrong? There doesn't seem to be a methodology to address what appear to be some pretty significant inconsisten - cies in how the trusts are adjudicated, how the money is doled out. [1450] Hon. P .

Bell: Thanks to the member for his question.

The purpose of the commitment made by the Premier really is to try and have another look at issues like that and find out if the current model of the trusts is meeting the test of helping support community economic de - velopment and whether good decisions are being made or not. a s the member opposite knows, there are a num - ber of different trusts around the province. e ach is operated completely at arm's length from government under a governance model that is prescribed. it's more similar to an authority model where the positions on the body continue to be renewed depending on the na - ture of positions held and that sort of thing — mayors, Mla s, but also other individuals that are appointed to the board.

Government, the minister, does not have any author- ity to overrule decisions by trusts, by the nature of the legislation under which they were founded. We will, as part of the work that we do, look at the nature of the trusts, the way they're established, the legislation, and whether they are achieving the goals that they were set out to achieve in the first place.

We'll consult broadly on that — obviously, with members of the boards, which would include opposition members, as well as the public and other key stakeholders in it. e arlier on i stated that i've not yet taken terms of ref - erence to cabinet. i need to do that prior to being able to disclose any information on the exact nature of the reviews. but my hope is to have the review completed by the end of the calendar year.

Then i, of course, would make that review public at that time or at the time that it was completed. i think the point that the member makes is a good one. i appreciate it. i think that's exactly the type of decision that we'll be looking at and trying to better understand. if the decision was not made in a way that perhaps reflected the spirit of the original intent, if there are changes necessary, we'd certainly be willing to pur - sue those changes. S.

Fraser: Thanks to the minister for that. i appreciate that, and i appreciate the fact that he's answering these questions so forthrightly and quickly with the time that we have — it's very limited — and considering he's brand-new in this position. Thank you for that. t o finish this off, then, i just wanted to make a com - ment. i hope that we will have the ability to be able to review some of these things. i mean, the actual work that was done by the staff of the trust to analyze and review this project showed a very, very strong economic benefit.

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, May 5, 2011 6693 a s we know, universities like unbc, u niversity of Vancouver island — these institutions actually provide huge economic benefit and the potential for diversifi - cation of economies in communities like Port a lberni, which is so important. i would hope that we have an ability to have some oversight, that indeed the terms of reference that a net economic benefit will accrue, as opposed to…. in this case it was an economic loss not just to the university but to the community of Port a lberni and, i would sub- mit, to the province and to the world.

Sixteen nations in the world have actually adopted the platform and the programs of this university. So it's a shame that our own trust was the only one that didn't seem to deem it neces- sary to support it. G.

Gentner: Y esterday during estimates i learned from the minister that interViSta S was a successful bidder of an rf P for conducting a study of proposed foreign trade zones for british c olumbia. n ow, the rf P clearly states that the feasibility study would be con - ducted by "an independent consultant." So i asked the minister if it was affiliated with the group lobbying hard for the foreign trade zone — the Greater Vancouver Gateway c ouncil.

The minister responded that they were "independent of that group." but the company has worked for the Greater Van - couver Gateway c ouncil, amongst other entities related to the port development — b.c . f erries, b.c . r ail and, not surprisingly, another independent corporation, omnitrax. [1455] The company has stated that it was "retained to de - velop a new vision for the greater Vancouver gateway." So why would the minister say that interViSta S was an independent consultant when it has already been en- gaged with studies for the Greater Vancouver Gateway c ouncil and other entities of the province? Hon. P .

Bell: My understanding is that the owner - ship of interViSta S is independent and distinct from the foreign trade zone steering committee members. That's the advice i've been provided, and i believe that to be the case. While they may have provided services to individual members, i don't think in any way that con - nects interViSta S to the company. it is only logical that a company with that sort of information would provide services to a variety of groups and individuals. G.

Gentner: Well, in the rfP it clearly states that the successful bidder will not be a company that would be involved in any association or previously of that of lobbying. it's quite clear. it says here: "The proponents must not attempt to communicate directly or indirectly with any employee, contractor or representative of the province, including the evaluation committee and any elected officials of the province or with members of the public and the media." it's clear to me that the province is also very much involved with the organization of gateway, and there is a close association with the province and of course the gateway committee, including the consortium that is pushing hard for the foreign trade zone made up of these members. a gain, is the minister suggesting that there is a de - fined independence from this company with that of the operation of putting forward a foreign trade zone?

Hon. P . Bell: i'll repeat my previous answer. t o the best of my knowledge, interViSta S has no ownership relation- ship with anyone within the foreign trade zone committee or the provincial government. it is an independent entity that provides services on a contract basis, and while it has worked for government and for others from time to time, i don't think that in any way it creates a connection be - tween the province and interViSta S. B. Simpson: i want to make a quick opening com - ment.

We're going to be talking about fii later on, but this is my first opportunity to make a public statement to the fact — because the minister has raised it a num - ber of times…. i wanted to give kudos to the minister for his leadership on the c hina file. i have mills operating in my constitu - ency that are operating because of that shift to china. n ow having said that, we will talk about what needs to be done in that china strategy, but i did feel compelled to make that statement. i have a lot of people in my riding who are currently working because political leadership was shown, and we have a bigger presence in china than we ever had.

My respects to the minister for that. i want to just canvass very quickly — because we are time-sensitive, as we always are in estimates — the softwood lumber agreement and some questions for clarification, based on some folks that i've been deal - ing with. first off, we're at a phase where the options — option a, option b — i believe, are available to be adjusted or changed at the request of british c olumbia, and i be - lieve that some folks down in the southeast at one point were asking for a change of options. if the minister could clarify whether that discussion is happening. [1500] Hon. P .

Bell: Thanks to the member opposite for his very kind words. The deadline for the decision point of changing from option a to option b or staying with option a has ex - pired. We did consult extensively with the industry. There are always different views, but the overwhelming sense amongst licensees was that option a was serving us well and to continue with that option.

british c olumbia Debates6694 t hursday, May 5, 2011 B. Simpson: The next question has to do with the status of negotiations. a s we all know, it takes a while to figure out where we're going to go. The softwood lumber agreement does have an expiry in the out-years, but are there negotiations just now underway with the u nited States around renewing the softwood lumber agreement or doing something different? Hon. P .

Bell: There are no active negotiations at this point with the u .S. government or with industry in the u .S. on the renewal process. h owever, we have started consultations with industry as well as with the federal government. a s we complete that work over the next number of months, we'll then be taking that advice and contemplating what we should do going forward. Whether we should request the extension of two years with no changes, whether we should look to have some changes in the agreement or whether we should let the agreement expire would be the three options. B.

Simpson: The reason i raise the issue of where we're at with negotiations is that the minister will remember that many people characterized this as a pol - itical deal at the time. There was some fast-tracking that occurred. There were sectors of the forest industry that believed they were shortchanged because of the nature of the fast-tracking and, in particular, some unfinished business that was supposed to have an ongoing dialogue around the secondary manufacturers, non-tenured pro- ducers who got pulled into this deal and had to be part of the tax regime.

Then of particular note in terms of log export debate, in terms of manufacturing on the coast, is the issue of lumber or tariffable products produced from private logs. My question to the minister is: is there a sense that those particular issues…? People felt this deal unfairly treated certain sectors of the forest community. a re they going to be part of the dialogue leading into the new deal? Hon. P .

Bell: i just want to take a few seconds here. one of the items that the member opposite mentioned was that non–tenure holders got dragged into the agree- ment. in fact, non–tenure holders are exempt from border tax. They are entitled to ship into the u .S. with- out any form of border tax. There's a criteria around that that must be met, of course, but that's the case. it's a bit of an awkward relationship in terms of how this all unfolds.

The federal government clearly has re - sponsibility and authority over international trade deals, so the u .S. federal government is technically only al - lowed to talk to the c anadian federal government. h owever, british c olumbia represents about 60 percent of the industry, so we're the largest stakeholder, and the federal government has been very good in working with the provincial government, allowing us to participate in that level of discussion and making sure that we're actually at the table. but the technical discussion takes place, as i'm sure the member is aware, between the two federal governments.

We have encouraged the federal government, and the federal government has made attempts to raise these issues with the a merican government.

The a merican government has been unwilling to pursue discussions around some of the things that the member has men - tioned to this point in time. h owever, in a renewal period of the nature that the member is contemplating, certainly that creates some levers. if the u .S. is interested in pursuing an extension, there may be an opportunity to talk about some of those additional items that are im- portant to his constituents, to my constituents and to all british c olumbians. B.

Simpson: Thanks for the minister's answer and the clarification. a s the minister knows, if secondary manu- facturers are associated in getting wood from tenured manufacturers, and so on, they did get lumped in.

Some of them got lumped in, in a way that they didn't before, but the minister is apprised of that and knows that that's an issue that needs to be addressed. [1505] in particular, though, the private log issue on the coast is one that i think really did get lost last time and really needs to be addressed. if we're going to be able to get lum- ber manufacturing from those private logs on the coast, we need to have a fair playing field with the a mericans, and i would hope that that would be one of them. i had to chuckle as i recalled the debate around the softwood lumber agreement as to whether b.c. was driving the bus or was the big dog at the table or all of those things that the previous minister was using as lan- guage as we did debates in the h ouse. i understand it's a c anadian deal.

There is one thing that british c olumbia has that could avoid a future softwood lumber agreement, and that's the issue of tenure reform. i'm wondering. i know it's not within the minister's direct control, but because the minister has a softwood lumber agreement….

There was, when he was Minister of f orests, a paper circu - lated within the ministry about tenure reform. i believe, and the minister knows this from previous debate, that tenure reform may be the way that we actually avoid a softwood lumber agreement or b.c. participating in a softwood lumber agreement in the future. c ould the minister state whether or not a serious look at tenure reform is occurring, either as a result of trying to avoid an Sla or within the ministry's and the minis - ter's area of responsibility? Hon. P .

Bell: i may think about tenure reform in a slightly different way than the member opposite does. a tenure reform is something that kind of rolls off the tongue very easily. but there are 85 members in this

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, May 5, 2011 6695 h ouse, and if we asked everyone to write down on a single piece of paper what they thought tenure reform meant, i suspect we'd get 75 different responses and ten pieces of blank paper. it is a very complex issue. We've gone through extensive tenure reform in terms of the 20 percent takeback originally, which is now sold competitively or provided to first n ations commun - ity forests.

We went from one community forest to 41 community forests in the time since 2001, increased the number of woodlots, and so on. r eceiving licences i consider to be a form of tenure reform, commercial for- estry, so there was lots of work going on. i think what the member is probably more referring to is perhaps another large-scale takeback, something of that nature, that creates a more competitive playing field. but i'll leave that to him to describe. i actually believe that the answer to the softwood lum- ber deal with the u .S. is c hina. i think that as we grow the c hinese market….

The growth rate has been tremendous — last year 2.9 billion board feet. i haven't seen March's numbers yet, but as of the end of f ebruary, we were at double the pace again for the first two months of the calendar year against the previous year. That might lead one to believe that we'll see something perhaps around five billion feet. That may be optimistic; i'm not sure. a couple of years ago when i set a goal of four billion board feet within two years, everyone thought i was crazy. in fact, i'm sure we'll exceed the four billion board foot mark — no question about that.

Given that we produce about 15, 16 billion board feet in a big year in british c olumbia and have traditionally tried to sell ten, 11, perhaps 12 billion board feet into the u .S., as we displace that volume into the c hinese market — or perhaps k orea and india and others as well…. it could be a variety of markets. a s that volume is dis - placed, b.c. will be less reliant on the u .S. marketplace.

While tenure reform could be part of the equation, i think there are other reasons to do tenure reform. c ertainly when i was minister, i was pursuing a goal of incremental tenure reform as opposed to broad, sweep - ing reform. The current minister i can't speak for. i'm sure the member opposite will have an opportunity to ask the Minister of f orests, l ands and n atural r esource o perations what his intent is. [1510] My belief is that the Sla will go away the day that we are no longer heavily reliant on the a merican market- place.

My goal always was, and will continue to be, to make that happen through the a sian marketplace. B. Simpson: The minister's characterization of the tenure reform debate, i don't disagree with. i think he's being kind with only ten blank sheets of paper if the h ouse was canvassed, but be that as it may.

We're already seeing c hina influencing price in the u .S. market. it's not bottoming out where it otherwise might as a result of c hina's presence, so i take that point. but as the minister does know, tenure and putting a pub- lic resource in the hand of private companies and all of the associated benefits that that comes with — in terms of how we price timber, in terms of credits for silvicul - ture and roads and various other things — of course is the root of a big part of the u .S. challenge against our interference in the marketplace.

That's what i mean by tenure reform. often it's around 50 percent or the 51 percent mark that has to be in a truly free log market, etc., and that's where the debate comes. but i'll canvass the tenure part with the appro - priate minister. h aving mentioned timber pricing, the minister is aware that there is an arbitration underway just now. i found the arbitration claim from the a mericans but couldn't find c anada's response so that i understand the argument. i'm wondering if the minister is aware of when c anada will be making its response public. Hon. P .

Bell: The response from the c anadian government that, of course, we were involved in was provided to the tribunal around mid- a pril. We don't have the exact date with us here. but if it was not posted, for some reason, on the internet, we're happy to provide the member opposite with a copy, because it is public documentation. So i'll endeavour through the miracles of the legislative television network to have someone somewhere magically produce a copy of that and pro - vide it to the member opposite. B.

Simpson: So my final question is on this. i may have just missed it on the c anadian website. i just couldn't find it. My final question on this. it's my understanding the time frame will be the appointment of the panel. The panel is appointed out of the u nited k ingdom, but the hearings or whatever will be held here. That independ - ent panel is supposed to rule within 180 days, it's my understanding. My question, however, is because….

There's time sensitivity associated with this. i have had individuals approach me about concerns that — and this is a hypo - thetical — in the event that there is a ruling against us in this case….

They're concerned that the incremental tax that c anada used in the ontario and Quebec situation — across-the-board increment tax — to deal with the so- called damages…. in british c olumbia there are some companies that have actually not benefited from the prac- tice in question, and they're concerned about the process that will be used by british c olumbia and c anada for de- termining what the actual punitive damages will be and what the government will do to address those.

So my question to the minister is: will there be an opportunity post–the arbitration ruling for a discus - sion in british c olumbia about the best way to address whatever that ruling is so that people who didn't bene -

british c olumbia Debates6696 t hursday, May 5, 2011 fit or participate in the practice are not punished by a flat, across-the-board increase in the tax, as Quebec and ontario did? Hon. P . Bell: in the current softwood lumber agree - ment and in the arbitration process there's no mechanism for a differential penalty to be applied.

So if there was to be any sort of a differential penalty applied, it would have to be a negotiated agreement that all parties, in - cluding the a mericans, would agree to. [1515] Just to be clear, in the actual construct of the agree - ment as it stands today, there is no opportunity for a differential penalty. B. Simpson: i understand that. My question, though, to the minister was…. b.c. is particularly under the gun on this particular claim.

The concern is that british c olumbia needs to actually address the issue that the minister is speaking to, to determine whether or not there is a position to put forward to ask for some kind of special circumstances. So the question actually is: will there be a process engaged in post…? h opefully, c anada wins, but failing c anada winning, will british c olumbia be able to actually take a very reasoned look at some options and then make the deter- mination whether they want to go and try and fight for some kind of differential penalty as opposed to across the board? Hon. P .

Bell: We are convinced that we will win this arbitration. So we certainly start from that premise and believe that to be the case. The legal advice that we have we are comfortable with and confident that, with our re- sponse to the initial filings, we should win the case. So i haven't presupposed what might happen in the event that that's not the case at this point. J. Kwan: Seeing as we are sort of on the theme of wood, i'm going to carry on and ask the minister some questions about the dream home initiative. This is the c anada Dream h ome initiative.

The last update that we got that was on the public rec- ord about the dream home initiative actually came from the former Minister of f orests, who is now the Minister of h ealth. a t that time it was reported that the dream home initiative…. The total cost of the exhibit was $12 million. The dream home initiative, i believe, is ongoing. a lthough i'll have some further questions about it later, i'd like to see if i could get an update from the minister on the total cost of the dream home initiative to date that british c olumbians had carried for this initiative. Hon. P .

Bell: Joining me to my immediate right is the ceo of the f orestry innovative investment, k en baker. k en has a plethora of spreadsheets available to us, so hopefully i'll be able to answer all the members' questions. The actual cost of the construction of the facility was $3½ million. We still occupy that facility today. but we've had an extensive number of employees in c hina. We continue to invest heavily in things like the Sichuan earthquake zone rehabilitation project and the like. i just need a little clarity from the member opposite in terms of what she includes in the dream home project.

The actual physical construction of the dream home project was $3½ million, but i wouldn't want to sug - gest that…. We still occupy the building. it's our office in Shanghai. We have about 40 or so staff, between the c anada Wood Group and fii c hina, in that particular facility. We use that as our primary facility to house the office and market wood in c hina. Just need a little more clarity in terms of the number that the member opposite is looking for. [1520] J. Kwan: a ctually, i'm looking for pretty well all the numbers — right?

My next question was going to be the breakdown of the project's budget. it includes, obviously, the operating part of it in terms of the operating cost, in terms of the ongoing cost to finance this initiative. So what was the startup, then? is the startup that the min - ister is saying $3½ million — for the construction of the dream home itself as a demonstration site, and then afterwards the ongoing cost, and is that each year? it's not just the one-time cost; it's an ongoing cost as well. So it's a cumulative cost to the treasury. Hon. P .

Bell: i think probably the best thing is that i'll arrange for a copy of the spreadsheet to be provided to the member opposite, because there's a fair bit of de - tail in terms of expenditures. This spreadsheet starts in 2008-09 and goes forward and assumes the '11-12 fiscal year. There are four years included, but of course, Dream h ome was built a number of years prior to that. We'd have to go back and pull that data together. in a nutshell, provincial commitments in c hina, and this includes all of the associated costs from the prov - incial government, have ranged from $6.26 million in 2008-09.

The low was actually in 2009-10 at $4.97 mil - lion and then back up to $7.9 million, and $6.5 million is assumed this year. on top of that there are industry contributions as well as the government of c anada. What we've tried to do is offset the government of c anada contributions against provincial contributions. a lthough our funding dropped in '09-10, the federal gov- ernment contributed a greater amount to the Sichuan earthquake reconstruction projects, which are included in these budgets lines.

The average '08-09 was $8.8 million, and then we bounced up to about $14 million this year. because we've completed the Sichuan earthquake reconstruction

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, May 5, 2011 6697 projects, we're down to $10.7 million. That's total federal government industry dollars, trade association dollars as well as the provincial government. i'm happy to pro - vide a copy of this to the member opposite. J.

Kwan: i would be very interested in getting that, be- cause i know that's getting into all the various details, and presumably the spreadsheet will provide for federal breakout and then provincial breakout and then indus - try costs, etc. if i need to go back further, i'm sure that i can get that from the ministry's staff. h e has many spreadsheets. Weirdly enough, i like to look at them too. o kay, that would be great if i could get that information from the minister, and thank you for that. i would like to get the minister's view on the Dream h ome initiative.

With the completion of the earth - quake natural disaster that c hina had faced…. The cost, presumably, that the minister has just outlined is included in that. beyond that, what was the project able to generate for british c olumbians? That is to say: what other initiatives did c hina take up that they pay for themselves, that utilize the Dream h ome initiative to do construction they required that was not paid for by the taxpayers? Hon. P .

Bell: The Dream h ome c hina project was our first foray into the c hinese marketplace. it was interest- ing, and it was probably the right idea at the time. but it really didn't end up, i think, reflecting the vast majority of the c hinese construction market and the opportunity that exists for wood-frame construction. There were a number of villas built in and around c hina on a commercial basis as a result of people com - ing and seeing Dream h ome c hina and seeing what it looked like.

They liked the style of construction, so they went on. i can't provide a number to the member oppos- ite. it certainly is not in the tens of thousands. it may be in the thousands; i'm not sure. but it wasn't a huge com- ponent of the growth that we've seen. [1525] it has been a good project from the perspective of demonstrations of what you can do with wood in c hina. The fact that it's been there for, i guess, about eight years now also shows that wood-frame construction is a good style of construction that can last for a long period of time.

There's no degrading of the building. it's still in very, very good shape today. i typically visit it once a year while i'm over there. it largely at this point in time houses our office staff — all of our staff, in fact, in our fii operations as well as the c anada Wood Group operations. That could be some - where else, actually. There were two buildings, and i think one of them has been re-leased and is now a pub, if i'm not mistaken. Some of the area where it was built has been attractive, and it is used by the developer now as another type of facility.

The initial project was our first foray into c hina. it probably wasn't the best style of construction, but it al - lowed us to learn from the project.

The real development in terms of the c hinese marketplace has come from those learnings. a s we've pursued other opportunities — and i'll use wood roof trusses as an example around that — we en - tered into some agreements where we would build two, three or four wood roof trusses for a developer on the conditions that we were able to demonstrate afford - ability and also sustainability of the roofing system and that the developer would then go ahead and build some other wood roofs on their own. t ypically, that's been kind of in the neighbourhood of three to six roofs that we would build.

The developer would build 100 to 150 roofs. That would be kind of nor- mal. We have done other demonstration projects. in fact, we just completed a project where we built a three-storey apartment building that had three apartments per floor in front of the beijing conference center. That was the purpose of my most recent trip into c hina. f or that particular project we provided the lumber, which was a little under $100,000 for the project, as well as some technical expertise, but the developer ac - tually paid for everything else in that building.

The cost of the building to the provincial government or to fii was about $100,000 plus another $100,000 to have it transported and set up in front of the beijing confer - ence center. We're seeing a shift taking place where we no longer have to contribute $1 million or $2 million to do a demonstration project. in most of the demonstration projects now, if we provide the lumber and some skilled expertise, typically a developer will put in the rest of the associated costs. We have a project that's going on right now in the t ianjin e conomic Development a rea that's a four-storey building.

We went out as a result of a memorandum of understanding signed with the Ministry of h ousing and u rban-r ural Development a little over a year ago, ac - tually, to build a multi-storey apartment building. This facility is just under construction. The founda - tions were in when i was there in March. i believe it's started to be framed at this point. it will be the first multi-storey wood apartment building of this nature. in that particular case, again it's the case that we pro - vided lumber for one building. They are actually building, i think, five all together, if i'm not mistaken, out of wood.

They liked what they saw, so they're expanding. We've really shifted gears, and it's not just around wood frame. That certainly is one of the elements, but furniture is another element. c oncrete forming we know about. everyone is aware of that — the wood roof systems, doors, windows. i think we are at a place now where we will continue to see that very, very significant growth in c hina.

british c olumbia Debates6698 t hursday, May 5, 2011 Was it perfect from the beginning? i say absolutely not. i think lots to learn from it. one of my jobs in this new portfolio is to take the learnings from fii and the processes we've gone through since 2002 or '03 and try and apply them to other industrial sectors in the prov - ince. The member may have some other questions, but i hope that kind of gives her an outline of the process so far. J. Kwan: Thank you to the minister for that, because the website actually lists the number of different demon- stration projects as well.

So i appreciate that. [1530] Many of these questions that i have are fairly detailed. i wonder, with this spreadsheet, if the minister could also ensure that he provides me with each of the demonstra- tion projects — the list of them; where they are and what the province contributed in terms of those demonstra - tion projects; the cost of those demonstration projects for the province of british c olumbia; and if it's in kind, such as wood; and the techniques that are being utilized for the development. if the minister can list those things out and cost it out for me, i would appreciate it. a lso, provide what the matching dollars are — com - ing from the developer, from the c hinese government or whoever else is involved with those demonstration projects. i would be much obliged.

Segueing from that, if i could also get a spreadsheet — i'm sure the minister's staff has loads of them — that will then tell us…. Presumably, the ministry is tracking, out of those demonstration projects, what it is yield - ing by way of a return investment for us in terms of the c hinese government or developers in c hina that are now utilizing these techniques that they've learned and the demonstration initiatives that they have picked up on, in building their own projects at their own cost.

Then, if we can get an estimate of the value of that in terms of revenue generated for british c olumbia, i would really appreciate it as well. i know that the roof trusses were part of the thing that came out of the Dream h ome initiative. in fact — back in 2005, i think it was — i and the critic for h ealth travelled to c hina. a ctually, we went to visit the Dream h ome in- itiative to see what it looked like and what it was doing and how it was generating potential revenue and eco - nomic activity opportunities for british c olumbia. in looking at the site, i must say, i was dumbfounded, because in c hina there is a huge population base, as we all know, and there is a scarcity of land.

Therefore, density is the order of the day, and single-family dwell - ings such as the dream home are not the order of the day. a nd i thought: "h ow are we going to really generate these opportunities in return?" i'll be interested out of that…. a s the minister says, it didn't generate that many houses or villas or projects as such, but rather it might have paved the way for some - thing else. i'd be very interested in knowing what those things might be. one of those things, i know, would be those roof trusses. a gain, i know that british c olumbia also pro - vided for and built roof trusses, etc.

The cost of that, in terms of the roof trusses to our treasury by way of dem - onstration and, again, the return of how many trusses we managed to sell to c hina, i guess…. i would be inter- ested in getting that figure. if the minister can provide that to me, i would really appreciate it. Hon. P .

Bell: Just before i respond to that question, i want to correct the record. t o the member for c ariboo n orth: i had indicated that the option to change from option a to option b had expired last year. in fact, it was in June of 2009 that the option expired. h owever, there is a second option, and the second option is January of 2013 for a decision. i just wanted to correct the record and make sure that's clear. t o the member's question, we would be happy…. i'm thinking three years. Most of the demonstration projects have taken place in the last three years or so.

We'll pro - vide the spreadsheet data that the member is requesting for the last three years around demonstration projects. i do want to say to the member opposite, though, that tracking the specific sales related to those projects is very difficult because developers typically purchase from their mainstream suppliers. They don't necessarily tell us after the fact whether or not they have done other projects that we're not aware of.

We are aware of…. f or example, in Shijiazhuang, i believe, in h ebei province, we signed an agreement for half a dozen roofs or so — and we'll provide the exact data — with a commitment to build an additional 100- some roofs.

We certainly can track that and provide that data. in Shijiazhuang, the last time i was there, there were many, many more roofs going up — far too many that we could count — and would have directly related to the demonstration projects, because they were never done there. [1535] i think the easiest, best number to count is really the total volume of lumber that's moved into the market - place. if the member opposite would like a graph or would like the total volume since we've started our ef - forts in c hina in 2002, i'd be happy to provide that. J.

Kwan: Well, i appreciate the information that the minister is going to give me, so i'll be looking forward to receiving the graphs and spreadsheet, particularly on the breakout of the demonstration projects, the actual costs and so on, and then also on the Dream h ome in- itiative itself. i'm just trying to get a sense of how much this in - vestment was from british c olumbia and what the yield was in return. n ow, by way of measurement in return,

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, May 5, 2011 6699 i would argue, though, that's kind of measuring a little bit like apples and oranges. if we look at raw logs, how much we were able to export to c hina as a measure - ment, i don't think that's a fair measurement of this initiative at all. Why i say that is this. u nless the minister can provide to me out of that figure the breakout of how much of that actually went into these specific areas of developmen

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0505pm-02
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0505pm 02
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	2d2c8f3bd1c3947205de2acc488331b091cb8bb6

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (pdf).