Volume XLI Thursday Province of Newfoundland FORTY- FIRST GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND First Session VERBATIM REPORT {Hansard} Speaker: Honourable Thomas Lush Number 5 1 June 1989

The House met at 2:00 p.m. MR. SPEAKER (l~shl: Order, please! Before getting into the activity of the day, on behalf of hon. members I would like to welcome to the galleries today a delegation from the town council of Windsor, represented by Mayor BJ.ackmorE!, Councillor King and Councillor Green. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, ht.~ar! MR. SPEAKER : Also LJ.Je wouJ.d J.ike to weJ.comE'! to the galleries the Mayor of Come By ChancE!, Mrs. Betty GilbE!rt. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR.

SPEAKER : Also, on behalf of han. members, we would like to welcome to the House today some students, twenty students actually, from the Avalon Community College in St. John's, accompanied by their instructor, Mr. Bill Smith. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: Also we have some studE!nts hE!re today, sixty GradE! VII students, a.ccompaniE!d by thEdr tE:'acher, l'-11n. Gi1ber·t TuJk, from the GJovert:own High School. I am sure all han . rnE!ITibE!r's would J.tke to welcome these students. Also tJJe haVE! tiJJE!nty Gr ·a de XI students accompanied by their t.E!aChE!r, Mr.

Miko Sut:l:_on, F1nom O' Donel High School, Mount Pearl. I am surE! ail hon. members bid you LJ.Jelcorne. L213 June 1, 1989 VoJ XLI . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, h~;:~ar! Oral Questions MR. TOBIN : Mr . Speaker. MR . SPEAKER: The hon. the member For Burin Placentia West. MR. TOBIN: Thank you very much, Mr . Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my quest ion is to Minister of Works, Services Transportation (Mr. Gilbert). !:hi:;! and On Tuesday, I guess, thE! lnin:l stein madE! a major announcement:_ in l:his House on a roads agrE!E!rnent, and yesterday he IAJas not allowed back in the House to answer the questions.

He had to st ay out until after Question Period, Mr. Speaker . He hung around the common room and did not COITIE! :i.n until after Question Period was over. NotAl that hE! :i.s hE! rE !, Mr· . S pea k E! r , I h a v e a que s t _-i_ on I wo u l d likE! to ask him. Outlined in thE! campaign poJ :i.cy for the Liberal Party in the election, it is clearly stated that, "Our economy t..~rill only gl"OW and dj VE!rS:lfy if IAJE! haVE! a ~JOOd and rE!LiablE! lllHans or'- transport:ation.

WE! t;.J:i.] ::1 stagnate if tAlE! ar ·e not to have a. 1neliable and effectiVE! rnE'ans of dE!]:lvet·ing goods, services and people from one par·t of thE! Provi neE! t:o anot:hur and l:o dE!1ivt•r c"!xport:s l:_o bE! rnarkEd :.e d outsidE! t.hE! Pr·ovi neE=•. 11 Mr. Speaker, my minister 'is: IF and that j s Lhe LibE~ral Parl:y, No. 5 quE· sl. ion t_o that: is Lhe ph-:i]osophy of­ l:.hE!l1 l1.Jhy did L hE! cas·~ Lhe you R213

gut the budget for road work from $48 mill :ion to $30 million? Forty-eight million dollars had been recomm ended by the bur eau crats in your department and had been acCE !ptE!d by thE! previous administration. Now, Mr. Speaker, why were the people of this Province robbed of $18 million in this budget? SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation. MR. GILBERT : Mr. Speaker, the member preambl ed his question about my not being in the Housl'::~ yE!sterday. I assur e him I was on the Queen's business, otherwise I would have been here.

Now, as to the fact that the roads program that we announced was $30 million instead of the amount that he feels we should have announced, I have an explanation for that. I would say that, first of all, the House has not been open for ten months. We right now have to announce a program that we hope is going to be compJ.E!ted this year . We could announce a $60 million program but it would not bE! completed. What we had in the Interim Supply was an amount of ~~30 rnilLLon which is going to be cornpJ.eted tlri s YE!ar.

We w~i.J 1 not be paving OVE!r ice and snow like wa s done sometimes when the previous members WE !re in government. SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear, hE !ar! MR. TOBIN: Mr. Speaker . MR . SPEAKER : L2 l4· June 1, 1989 Vol XLI A supplementary, the hon . the member for Burin- PJ.acentia West. MR. TOBIN : Mr.

Speak er, now that th e 111ini st:er ha s admitted to this Hou se that they did del-iberately cut $18 miJ.lion from thE! budget and deny that kind of money in road irnprovelllE !nts to this ProvinCE !, lE!L me ask the rntnister, Mr. ~3 p e aker : When they got invoJ.ved in Lhe slash:ing of thE! budget · hotAJ could thE!Y jusU .fy cutting from the Jist recommended by the sen ior bureaucrats, not by po1iti ci an s, Mr. Speaker, and hotAJ cltd the minister and his Cabine t colleagues cut from twenty -one Conservat~ i.ve d:i. stri cts a to tal. of" $14 million, Mr .

Speaker, yet i.n the thjrty -one L i b e r~l dist ri cts only $7 111illton was cut. Now, Mr. Speaker, how are tAlE ! supposed to win districts in thi s Province J.ike Grand FalJ.s, that did not receive any money, Burin - Placentia West that had r·oads money cut, Baie Verte, and l::hE• list goes on, Mr. SpE!ake!r . And, Mr. Sp eaker, hotAJ dOE!S l~h e m e mbt:. ~r for Placentia (Mr. Hogan) go out and explain to his constt tuents how thE! road tAJork u1as cut: in h:is d:istrict? How dO E!S thl':~ mm nb E!r For St. Georg e 's (Mr. Short) explain that the whole syst em wa s gut ted? Ml~.

SPEAKER: WouJ.d lh(! han. me1nbE!r ' p]E=!aSE' get to his question? It is a supple mentary quPstion and I a sk !~hE! hon. lriE! tnber l~o gel~ to ·i. t. MR . TOBIN : Okay, Mr . SpE!akE!r . liavLng said that, lEd~ Ill( ! ask thE· mi.njst.E!r hotAJ can he explain to the people of Newfo undland fairness anrl baJance in c u u~.ing fro m l:.he ConSE!rVat:.tve d:i str ~i cts 1;14 . rwi.JJ:ion, tAJhen thE>I'E~ are only twe nty-one PCs elected No. 5 R2 l4

here, and yet they managed to cut less than half of that from the other thirty-one d-istricts. Would thE! rrdntstE!r care to E!Xplain :1f that interprets fairness and balance? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation . MR . GILBERT : I think the member answered his own question retal1y . The program that we introduced in this House on Monday was one that was rnade up by t~e. civil servants and recommended as a priority list, t.~.lit:h the amount of rnoney that we were spending, or announcing at this time, the $30 m:illion. The list. was, as I say, compiled by the civil servants.

The list that the han. member is referring to now is, the one that he had, is a di f f Etre nt agenda. I know not. hi ng about it. I asked my civil servants in the department to provide me w"ith a priority list for provincial roads in this Province for the current year, within the constrai.nts and within the dollars that we had to work with. I was provided with the list. It was a list based on the prjori.ty of the dvil service. It. had no input from the political process whatsoeVE!r, and I am quite happy !J.Jith it, as I am sur'e the people of Newfoundland are. MR . TOBIN : Mr. Speclker . MR.

SPEAKER : Hon. the member For Bur-in Placentia West. MR. TOBIN : Mr. Sp~:~aker', bE! ·inr] a member of U1e former adtn:i.nist.raU.on, I knot.u what. the list . tJ.Jas and I know tAJhE:~r'E! the lj .s t. !J.Jas IAJhE!n t:h~i s adm:.i.nj stra t::ton L215 June 1, 1989 Vol XU was no longer in office. So, one way or the other, Mr. Speaker, the member should carne clean and be LruthfuJ. to this House. There wa s a list, Mr. SpE:1aker, that t.uas put into thEt system, and thE! rrd nj ster' knows that. And there is only one way for it to be taken out, and that was taken out by the minister.

It is not: good E!nough for him to say that hE! did not soe it. It was in the system and it had to be removed. Now, Mr. SpE:~aker, let the minis l~er' explain to this House how there were seventeen projects added on to that li.st that were not a priority. SeventE!,?.Il projects, Mi". Speaker, !J.Jere added on Lo that list ··- MR. WINDSOR: All i.n Liberal districts . MR. TOBIN: -all of them, Mr. Speaker, evE•ry si.ngJ.e project in a Liberal district. Is that fairness and and balance, Mr . SpE!aker·? Why and how did it happen? Is !~hal~ t.uhat the m:inister' is go to continue to see in th"is House? SOME HON.

MEMBERS : HE!ar, hear! MR. SPEAKER : The han . the Minister of Works, Services and Transportat ion. Ml~ . GILBEin : I-lJ.JouJ.d s-Ltgt;JE!St Lo the hon. llh!I TibE!Y' that if l:her'e !J.Jas a Jist compLlnd by thE! prE!Uious adm:.i.nj strat:.i on :Lt. t.uas clearly political. Our li s l: is not: poJitical. Our list js bc~s•:!d on fairnuss and balanC E! cJ.nd on a prjority that was suen by the ciuil ser-vants. SOME HON. MEMBERS: ·-- -·- ···-· -··-·----·-·--•-H -- Hear, hear! No . 5 I~ 215

MR .. DOYLE: Mr . Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Harbour Main. MR. DOYLE: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the same minister as well. The minister is aware, and is very well aware, of the announcement and the commitment and Cabinet approval that was give~ to the people of Bell Island a short time ago, approximately one year ago, to••have a second fer-ry built for Bell IsJ.and sirnultam~ously w:.it.h the first one.

Now, will the minister explain to the people of Bell Island, who a year ago wer·,~ dancing in the streets and rejoicing that they had a minister and a government who recognized the needs of Bell Island by providing a decent transportation service, will the minister tell us, clearly and openly and plainly and honestly and sincerely, why he has chosen to dash the drE!arns of t.he pE!oplE! of Bell Island by not keeping the commi tmE:~nt of the announcE:~ment. of the second boat? Will the second ferry, as announced by the previous administration, be built for the people of Bell Island?

If i l: is going to be built, when lAri.11 it be built? Will the minister l:ell us? MR. SPEAKER : The han. the Minister of Works, Services and ~ransportation . MR. GILBEin : I lAJouJ d suggE! St to the hon. membE!r that the people of Mount Scio Bel1 Is1and danced and rejoiu~d jn the streets so much they elected a Liber·al member. L..216 June 1, 1989 Vol XLI SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. GILBERT: As to the ferry, Mr. Speakc~r.

IAJE! made an announcemE!nt, as is lAJel1 known, and I am sure if the member had listened to the press last week, when I made the announcl'wwnt about the building of the ferry that is presently starting construction in Marystown, I made a commitment to the people of Bell IsJ.and that lAJE!, :in Lhjs governiTIE!Ilt. rE!Cognize:~d the nE!ed For· a second uessel for that run, and that we would be making an announce1nent ·in dUE! courSE! as to IAJhen th:is fE•rr·y would go :in t. o cons t r· u c l: :ion . [ assurE! the han. rTIE!rnbE!r :it :is :i.n good hands. Have no fE!ar, IAJe •. u·e going to look after it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for - MR. DOYLE: Mr. Speaker, the better at dancing - MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! rnin:is tor· ·is I am sorry. I just want to remind the hon. member that the Chajr has not recognized him yet. MR. DOYLE : Sorry, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: I was about to, but bolh of us were talking together. The hon. thE• me111ber · Main. Ml~. DOYLE : Mr. SpeakE!Y', as I ministE!r is bE•ttE!r at~ No. s For· Har ·bour · sajd, lhe dancing than R216

he is at answering questions. Now, I am going to ask him a second time, and I arn going to ask him comE! c1ean with thE! people of Bell Island, and the pE!ople her'-~ in this House. H:is offic:ials recommended, approximately one year ago, that a second boat be build simultaneously with the first boat bEdng built. Treasury Board approved the expenditure approximately one year ago. Cabinet approVE!d that expendil:ure approximately one year ag~. I made the announcemE!nt as minister, in front of 300 people on Bell Island about one year ago, that two boats would be built simlultaneously.

Now, would the min:ister agrE!E! with me to go to a public meeting on Bell Island next WE!ek and E!Xplain to the pE!o-plE! of Bell Island why they are not having that second boat built? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. DOYLE: And, will he go to the Premier and say to the Premier, The commitment has been madE! and the commitment must be kept? Will the mirristl'::1r go with me to a TneE!ting on Be11 Island next week c.~nd explain this to the people of Bell Island? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The bon . the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation . MR.

GILBERT: First of all, to the member's reference to my dancing, my wife will be proud to hear that because that is one of the things she never considered me to be too good at. As Far· as ansti.J(:~r· ·ing l:he lnE!i'nbE!r' s L217 June .1, 1989 Vol X L.I question, I have talked to the members of the Commission over there, and if there is a rE:!qUE!St from the people of Bell Island for me to go ·l:o Bell Island and have a meeting on Bell Island, I arn sure that I will go, accompanied by the member. I have no problem at all. I have nothing to fear from thE~ people of BE!ll Island, or has this governrnE!nt.

WE! havE~ rnadE! a commitment, as I stated to the member ear1iE~r, so I will run through i.t again just to be surE· that he understands. There is one ferry that is in process, and there is a contr·act givE~n l:o thE• Marystown Shipyard to construct it. MR. DOYLE: For· one. MR. GILBERT: I have told the people of Bell Island, and I tell the member hE!re today, IJ.Je are in ·t.he procE•ss of considering, and we made a commitment to them, that thE~re is going to be a second ferry for BE~J.l Island. MR. DOYLE : When? MR.

GILBEin: The one thing that the member seE:Hns to forgot is that thE•re is a differE!nt government here nOIAJ than the one he was pa rt of. fhe cornrrd tmE~nts that he HladE! do not nE~cessar·i.ly, nor does l:.h.i.s gover·nlTIE!nt nt :~cessa l~jJy haVE! to honour. We cH'e in the process. I have said publicly that we are going to honour the cum1rr.itrnc::!nt to have a second fE!rl"Y for· Be11 Island, so I can asslH'H thE! hon. rnernbE·I~, yes .

As t:o havi nc:J a merd:ing lAriL.h Lhe pt:•oplH of Sr•I.l Is1and, :if I gE~t a rE~quest: ft~orn L h E~ p ~~ o p 1 E! o f l3 e 1 1 I s 1 a n d I IAri. 11 bl'::1 only too hclppy, as 1 aiTl sut~e rny colleague will be happy, to go No. ~~ R217

with me to face the people on any decisions l..IJe haVE! made concerning the ferry for Bell Island. SOME HON. MEMBERS: ---·----···-·- Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Harbour Main. MR. DOYLE: I am very pleased to hear the minister say that, Mr. Speaker, be c au s e:~ I w:i.J.l s E! e to i t t hat he gets an invitation next week to go see the pE!oplE:1 of Bell IsJ.and, and I lAri ll be happy to go a 1 o n g t..ui t h hirn as tAJeJ.l. Mr·.

SpE!aker, as J.ong as he is not going to built a second boat s:irnultaneously with the first one for the. people of BeJ.l Island, maybE! they have relief coming in some other way. Will the minsiter give us his comment on the statement in the Liberal Party Policy Manual: The Liberal Government will consider ferry transportation to the Islands off the Coast of Newfoundland to be an extension of the road system, just as we expect the Gulf ferry service and the Trans .. -Canada highway to bE! a part of the nationaJ. transportation system 11 ?

He told me about this many, many times when I was sitting on that side and he wanted to see that policy implemented. When can the people of Bell Is1and, i:~nd the peop1E! of Gaulto:i .s and Change Islands and Long Island and Pilley's IsJ.and and the var·ious islands that are ser·v:icE!d by fer-ries, when can they expE!Ct to see a roll-back -in the fE !rry r·ates to t:hE! islands around i:hj .s province as annunciatr:!d by l:he Minister and this government in their Liberal Party Policy Manual? WhE:' n can t. hE! y E!X pE! c t to see that, Mr. Speaker. L218 June 1, 1989 VoJ. XLI MR. SPEAKER: ThE! hon. t~hE!

Minister . MR. GILBERT: Within a reasonablE! time, ;'VIr. Speaker . SOME HON . MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR . HODDER: Mr . Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Port au Port. MR. HODDER: Another question to the MinJster of Works, Services and Transportation. It is obviou s that the government does not intend to J.:ive up t:o the pr·ornis<:!S that were madE! by the for'tnE•r' administration, by th is side whE!n we werE! over t.hE!rE!. The questton I haVE! for thE!

Minister· is: Doe:1s the Minister intend to live up to the promises that were honestly made by i:hE! present gover·nmE:!nt during the election campaign? The ones that t.uere honestly made and publicized durjng the eJection campaign, does thE:1 M·inisi:er' inl: end to live up to those promises? MR. SPEAKER: ThE:' han. the Minist:er· of Wot"ks, Services and Transportation. MR. GILBERT: I haVE! no record that J hcwu to lJve up to your promises. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Yours! Yours! Ml~.

GILI3EIH: But 1 can assur'E:· you l.:hdL cH'lY cornrnitrneni:s that tJJe lllctde tAli 11 be looked after· ::i.n dUE! course, as l just . told l:he hon. lrHHrtbE!r. No. S R218

MR. HODDER: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Port au Port. MR. HODDER: The first promise made by the present government, the first promise in the elE!Ction campaign as SE!en on television and bil1E!d on CBC across the Province as the first promise made by · the government, WdS a road from Cape St. George to MainJ.and. That is a road that has bE!E!n awaitE!d for by the peop] E:1 of Bay St. George, thE! people From Port au Port, the Fr·ancophonE!S of Port au Port. DOE!S the Minister int:end to liVE! up to that prorrdse, that ten rn:i.lE! road from CapE! St. Geor·ge to Ma~i.nland?

MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister. MR. GILBERT: In due course, Mr. Speaker. MR. HODDER: Mr·. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER : The han . the member for Port au Port. MR. HODDER: A further supplmnentar·y, Mr· . SpeakE!r. I am pleased to hear that there is a J.itt.lE! opening thE!re, because I would like to point out to the rninistE!r that this lAJas tho first promise made, and IAIE! arE! not J.ooking fo1~ it in the futurE!, in four or five years timE!, /'he~ people expect it now. It was made by the Premic~r, it t.>Jas madE! honestly. I believe ho meant: it. when hE! hE! made it. You SC!e, Mr.

L219 JunE! 1, 1989 Vol XLI Speaker, that road will not only promote tour·ism, wi.ll not only rationalize community services around thE! Port au Pol~t Peninsu1a, it will ~~lso open l:he limestonE! resources on the peninsula for developrnE!I1t:. Mr. SpeakE!r, dur·ing the election carnpai .gn the PrE!miE!r singled out Port au Port as an arE!a for deveJ.oprnent, but IJJE! arE! not going to wait for two or three years. MR. SPEAKER : Order, plE!ase ! I remind the hon. gentlE!rnan - MR. HODDER: I am sorry, Mr. Speaker. carried away. MR.

SPEAKER : 1 got. - there are certain words by which he can interr·ogate a Minister, and they arE! usually 'holAJ', 'whE•n', 'why', and I have not heard any indication of a quest.:lon. So 1Ari11 the member get to his question. MR. HODDER: Well, the question, Mr. Speaker, is lAJhen dOE!S thE! Minister· intend to call tenders for that road from Cape St. George? MR. SPEAKER : The han. the member for Works, Services and Transportation . Ml~. GILBEIH : WeJ.l, as 1 toJ.d thE~ fir 'sl:. hon . mumbr:•r today u..JhE~n he as kod about thE!

Pr·ovi .nciaJ roads pl~ogram, th~:· program thai: t!JE! haVE! announct;!d ~;o far this year is on a priority basis and it t!Ji:lS the one that tJ.kl.S pr'ovidE!d by OUI" c:ivLl. scr'vants a~; the one that should be done imrnE!d:LatE!l.y. ~)o I say to Uw hun. mornber, as soon as the nalfle of that road COITJE!S up on t.he priority list and we have tho No . S R21.9 :~

capital funding to do it, it t~lill certainly be looked after. MR. GREENING: Min. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the member for Terra Nova . MR. GREENING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . This question is to the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation. In view of the fact that $1.5 million has been spent on the road from East Port to Burnside, which also serves the Isli:.'!.nd of St:. Br'E!ndan' s, and in view of the fact that the road from Lethbridge to Jamestown has bE!E!n paved, 1~dth the exception of Brooklyn, could the hon. minister teJ.l me when tEH1ders wiJ.l be called to pave those two roads? MR.

SPEAKE!~: The hon. the member for Works, Services and Transportation. MR. GILBERT: No, Mr. SpeakE!r. MR. HEWLETT: Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : The han. the member for Green Bay. MR. HEWLETT: Mr. Speaker, I represc~nt a rural district, Green Bay. It was Liberal for twenty thr·ee yE!drs after Confederation, but insofar as transportation is concerned things onJ.y started to happen in the dying years of the Srnalhuood admin:i.st:r-atJ.on. Progress continued through the 1970s and early 1980s under the PCs, but th,:?.re is s t:ill Jfluch lE!fi: to be done in Green Bay as regards l:o l:ransporta t.ion.

Why, for the first t.ime in tv.Jenty yc'•ars, did 1_220 June 1, 1989 Vol XLI ~ ~ ......... Green Bay not get one red cent of new transportation money? Ml~. GILBERT: Mr. Speakc:~r. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation. MR. GILBERT: Well, as I undE!rstand Speaker, there· is nothing pave thE!re. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! M ~~--J:J E W L -~I.I. : it, Mr. ]E!FL to A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER:. The hon. the member for Green Bay . MR. HEWLETT: I will inform the minister, Mr.

Speaker, that we have got tn excess of for ·ty kilornetE!r's of gravel road left in Green Bay. And among those roads, Mr. Speaker, is the road to Harry's Harbour and Jackson's CoVE!. Both the PC candidate iHld thE! L'.'i b~:!ra1 candida l:e in thE! e 1e c tion pr·orn:i s E:'d to have this road done. If the PC Government had been re-elected that road would have been done this year. Why is the Liberal Par-l:y, now in government, ned:. kE!C~p:ing up JJJith the prcnrrise l:o do what the Ljberal candidate promised to do? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation. MR. GILI3Ein : M r .

S p E! a k e r , I IAI o u 1 d r· E! mi . n d ·Uw hon. rnernbE!r !:hat l:hE !re ar· e 3, 000 kiJ.o1T1eters of unpaVE!d r·oacl :in Newfoundland, all over the d :i s t r i cL S . ~) 0 h E! :i. S V 0 I" y No. S R;?20

fortunate if he lives in district that only has kilometers of it left. MR. HEWLETT: the for·ty A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Green Bay . MR. HEWLETT: As I pointed out, Mr. SpE!aker, we have been in Confederation for forty years and for the first twenty we got absolutely zilch. so we had a lot of catching up to do. Now is Green Bay being penalized because my predecessor happened to be the Premier of this Province, I was his side-kick and notJJ I am the ITIE!mber? Is \:hat the reason Green Bay is being penalized? MR.

SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation. MR. GILBERT: Of course not, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: I would appreciate minister just waiting recognize him. the hon. until I The han. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation. MR. GILBEin: Of course not. Mr·. Speaker·. But it did not get on the priority list that was given t:o us by the civil servants this year. MR. TOBIN: It was on the priority list . MR. WINDSOR: That is not true. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! L221 June 1, 1989 Vol XLI MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I realize that the hon . mE!rnber· is stand-.ing, but ti'lE!rE! ar(:~ also ot:.h("!r people speaking From their chairs. I want to r(:~rnind hon. members that a qUE!Stion is aske!d by the member -standing. and that is the only one that I am going to be recognizing now and in the futurE!. The han. the member for Grand Bank . MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I u.Jould 1 '.ikE! to ha1H• a chancE! l:o qUE!Stion the salf!E! ITJinjster· and ask h:irn when can LJJo rt:!alistically expect contracts to be let and work to begin on the projects that he announced on Tuesday? MR.

SPEAKER : The han. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation . MR. GILBERT : Mr. Speaker, tn thE! staternE!nt that. I rnade, tJJe E!Xpect thE! contr·acts to bE! lE!t late in June or· early in July. MR. MATTHEWS : Mr. Speaker. MR . SPEAKER: The han. the member for Crane! BcHlk. MR. MATTHEWS: I thank the mjn:l.sl:.(~!r' fo1" the answer, Mr·. Sp(:~akt:!r. I t.uou1d l.i.ke to ask hi.m no1JJ, tAJhat year· m:lght the rE•sidE!nl:s of Grand Eldnk expc:•cl: some money to be spent on :irnprov:i.ng roads .in l:he di"(•a of thE• P r o v :i. n c E! lAJ h u r E! L h E! y 1 i v e ?

B <'! c a u s E:! tJJe are all v E! r y. 1; e r y con v .i. n c e d in i:hi s Provj neE• 't.hat t.hE! Prt:!lrJ:i.er· L~Jc-u:; very . very sin c E• r e . and it t.ua s no l: just: a p]ay on tAJcwds u.Jhen he ~.a:irl No. 5 I~ 2 21

that he would exercise fairness and balance, and that all regions of the Province wouJ.d be treatE:~d equally. MR. SPEAKER: The -h~·--the MinistE!r of Works, Services and Transportation. MR. GILBERT: When the name comes up on the priority list, Mr. Speaker. MR. MATTHEWS: Mr. Speaker. MR . SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Grand Bank . MR. MATTHEWS: Mr. Speaker, thank you . The big que s t:i on is how do you do that? Mr. Speaker, I am looking at a l:ist here, on pagE!

S of thE! priority list that was submitted by th e officials of the Department of Transportation, and under the Dj strict of Grand Bank there were two expenditurE!S recommended; (1) improvements to two intersectjons wit:h Route 21.0 at Grand Bank for $100,000; and thE! second expenditure resurfacing four kilometers of Route 210 from Fortune tot,.Jards Point May for $400,000. Now this js page five of a list that was recornrnended by the officj als of thE! DE!partment of Transportation. So my question l:o the minister is what happened to that $500,000 expenditure?

And hotAI did this $500,000 expenditure get taken off the list and some SE!VentE!en projects that were not on the J.jst get on the list? That is the quest:.ion, Mr . Speaker. Ml~. SPEAKER : The hon . the M:i.n:i.str:~r . 1_2 2 2 June 1, 1989 Vol XU SOME HON. MEMBERS: Political interference . MR. GILBERT: Because, I would sugge st, Ml ". Speaker, that !:he list !:hat tAJas publJ.shE!d for thE! $30 million there was a higher priority on the list that was alrE!ady pubJ.i.sht:'d. MR. MATTHEWS : Mr. Speaker. MR . SPEAKER: The hon. t:he rnernber for Grand Bank . MR.

MATTHEWS: I guess it stands l:o rr;:!,5J.son thd.t-. [ arn not sat=Lsf:i(:!cl w:ith tha t particu1ar answer. I IA.Jant l:o ask the minister, in l:ight of t h~ :~ fac t. that there are so rnE• $30 nri1l _ion aJ.ready announced in transportation irnprovc:wlE!nts dnd road work around this Province this yc~ar, and t:hat reccnnrnendt::!d projects were taken off the l:ist and others supplemented, wil1 thE!re be other announcernE!nts th:i.s year for additional road \AJOr'k, jmporvements to bridges, and so on?

Wi11 tht:: !re be additional E!Xpendi tures by government t:h:i s year for improvements to roads ar·ound the Provine\':~? If so, IAdJ.l the people of the district of Grand Bank be given their duJy expected expenditure of $500,000, or are they, as we11 as other districts in i:h-.is Plnov:i.nce, to be penalized for exercis:ing their democratic right? MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Mini ster of Works, Services and Transportation . MR . Gil BE In: A 1:. t. his L :i. rn E~ I ca nnot an s t..<.J E~ r· t. h a L question, concerning what is to happen in the future . MR . MATTHEW S : No. 1) 1~222

You cannot answer any question. MR. DOYLE: You deserue the 'Wimp of the Week' Award. MR. A. SNOW: Mr . Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Menihek. MR. A. SNOW: Mr. Speaker, first of all I' want to say how impressed I am with the openness and frankness of the minister's answers. So I will try a differE!nt min:istE!r, the MinistE!r of Education. I wonder if hE! would tell me why he would surreptitiously make a nE!WS relE~ase, or slip a note under rny door, to inform me, so I can inform the residents of Menihek, why this gouernment is slipping on some of their prorniSE!S?

Is that slippage, or is it a signal of things to comE~? Mr. Minister, would you answer the question to rne, for the people of Menihek, why you, indeed, did not make a Ministerial Statement jn this House to inform th(~ ministers and the members of this House about the closure, the not continuing with the operation of a first-year university programme in Menihek? MR . SPEAKER: The hon. l:he M:Ln:i ster· of Educat:ion . DR. WARREN: Mr. SpeakE!r, I thank the hon. member for· his question.

I want to say to the people of Menihek that he has interceded on bE!haJ.F of them in this regard in the past two weeks, and I appreciate his intercessjons for them. I made a news release about a half hour ago, or an hour ago. and [ L223 June 1, 1989 Vo1 XLI had copies sent to thE! hon. member and to thE! Opposition critics. I Hd.nk thE!Y were in caucus at Lhat t:irne. I issu~::~d a nc:!WS release at thE! same t:i .rn~::~, so tha ·t thE! pE~opJ E! of Menihc:!k would gE !t it directly . That I1E!WS releaSE! is going to the Board of Governors of the Labrador Community College. In the SpE!ech from thE! ThnlllE!, Mr·.

Speaker, the gouernmr::~nt said that first---year u ni u ers i ty cou rs E• s tAJi.J.l again be offerE!d in the:! Labrador· West area as soon as possible. S'ince that speech, my oFficials, and others, haue considered all the possibil'ities, and looked at the possibility of offering that :in the Fall of 1989. We concluded that educationally it was not a sound idea. No instructors have been hi r'E!d, no labs or l:i.br·arif!S are in place, no faci.litiE!S are available appropriate to these prograrnrnes.. T~wse faciJ.il:ies ar 'e necessary .

Quality facilities, quality instructors, quality text books, quality libraries are essential, because {:.his progr·amme has to bE! accrE!ditE!d by Memorial. Uniuersity. So it was our conclusion, Mr. Speaker, that we could not proceed this Fall, because IAJe madE! a ccnrun:i.tm<~~nt to the people of the area that we proceed in the Fa11 of 1990. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR . SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Menihek . MR. A. SNOW: Mr. Speaker, Labrador Wes t, indE!<:!d, is quite a dis tance fi"Om St. John's. but th::i.ngs he-lVe not changed that much in the ldst month.

Things have not chan~jed •~l :_ all in the last monl:h. other than t h e fa c t t hat t h :i s g o u e r'rlliW n t j "; slippinq on delivery of servicE!S No. 5 [023

outside the Things did election. City of not change St. John 1 s. since the OnE! of the ftrst promises the now Premier made in the election was if he were elected as a Liberal, a first-year university programme would be implemented in Menihek in September 1989. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, 11ear! • MR. A. SNOW: Now, he made that promise. He said he would do it immediately. Now IA!hy did the Minister of Education convince the Premier that h~::~ should back--lE!g on that? Why did he convince the Premier not to go ahead with this Promise? MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Minister of Education . DR. WARREN: Mr.

Speaker, I did not convince anybody of anything. I looked at this, strictly from an E!ducational perspective: What is right in terms of quality education? This government has a commitment to quality education to every pE!rson in this Province. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! DR. WARREN: And I haVE!, Mr·. Speaker, consuJ.t .ed with other agencies. I have a draft here of a news release which is about to be released by the Labrador Community College Board or-- COVE!rnors' and they say in that draft - I gave them a draft of my rel ease earl:i.

E!r thi s morning that thPy undE !rstand that we IAJE're pul: in a. ver·y diff--icult position. They understand the rE!asoning for our decision . They are disappointed, of cour·se . fhe L.224- June 1, 1989 Vol X L.I students are dis appoi ntE!d, cannot do it. disappointE!d . Mr. Speaker, SOME HON. MEMBERS : You can so! DR. WARREN: I but am WE! If we are giong to do it IA.IE! ar'E! going to do it right. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hearT-· DR. WARREN: One final comment, Mr. Speaker.

If any students arE! disadvantaged as a r· e s u ll: of \:. h :i. s dE! c.i s .ion IA!G will take whatever ac tjon js necessar·y to ensur·e that LhE!Y are trE!ated fairly. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE!ar! MR. S"PEAKER: Question Period has expired . SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave! By · leave! MR. SPEAKER: Question Period has expired, by my clock. We began at 2:06 p.rn. Pregenting Reports by Standing and Special Commitees MR. SPEAKER : Pursuant to

Section 29, .I tAri.sh prE •SE!nt a rE!por·L, that of Parliamentary Commissioneln. .I pleased t:o say I have recEd .ved Fourteenth Annual Report of Pa r·J iaiTH'! nta r· y Con11n:i . s s ion e1n for· calendar year 1.988, and r 1<3.y on the Table of the House. Orders of the Day to lhe am th e the the it No. 5 R2 24-

MR. BAKER: Order 1, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Order 1. Addr'E!SS in RE!ply. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Fogo. MR. WINSOR: Mr. Speaker, it pleasure to speak the first time, historic district SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. WINSOR: gives me great in the House for representing the of Fogo. I would like at this time, Mr. Speaker, to congra t:ulate you upon your re··-elect:ion. You share a district adjacent to mine, and share many of the problems, I arn sure . I might add that it is the first time in this distr·ict 1 s history that it has elected a Conservative member.

We have had a long history in Fogo, but I do not think we should use history only as a teacher. When Mr. Langdon spoke thE:~ other· day, some of the government members came back and sajd the problems in his district were the problems of the past administration. The Premier has promised a new dir'E!Ction for his government, and I hope our distrtct t .•. riJ.J.. gEd .. equ<:ll and fair· treatment . Mr. Speaker, there are great neE!dS in Fogo disLrict, and pE!r'haps no need greater than in transportation. I had hoped to question the Minister of Wroks, SE!rvices and Transportation today, but time ran out.

We have a serjous problem ulith our fer-ry systr:!rn to Foqo Is1and. rhE! present system is certainly not L225 JUnE! 1, 1989 Vol XLI adequate, espE!cially during thE! Winter months. There is a need for a ferry with icebreaking capabi1ities to be built immediatE!ly. ThE!r'e is a1so, certainly, the problem of gravel roads in our distr·ict. We haVE! a district that was fortunate, in that during the Moores Administration most of the roads .were paved. We still hav<:! a largE! number of communities, though, that have to r·ely on grdVE!l roads.

WE:~ werE! expecting a rnaj or commitment from this . goVE!r'nment to addrE!SS that matter, but not much help is forthcoming. In the area of water and sewer, thE!re is no district in this Province that nE~eds mor·e than uJc· do, excE!pt for one community. nlE! Mintster of Mines and Energy mj~Jht: know that, since he comes from Lumsden. That is the only community in the entire district that has a working waLer and sewer system almost complEd:ed. Not one community on Fogo Island has a water and sewer s:yst:em that. :i.s completE!.

The past adm:lnistration startE:~d some, and LJJE! sincerE<ly hopE! that this adrrd.ni~:traUon tJ.Ji11 continue the work of now completing the water and sewer systerns that has been ongoing For the past two or three years. In thE:~ area of govE!rnrnE'!I1t sc-.~rv:ices, our· district, l:oo, nE!Pds help. The Speech fr·om ThE! Thr·one said that one of l:.hE! bigge st empJ.oyer·s in th:i.s f>JnovinCE! :i. !; the• government. You now have a chance to create somE! ernpJ.oyment :.in ruraJ. Newfoundla.nd, spec.ifical1y in our dis trict., by moving so11W g o v e r nrn E! n t s e r v ·.i c E' s L o o u 1n <3. r c:• a .

I speak specifically of Social Sc~rviCE!S, LJ..Jhich USI ''!d to exist. in thE! <:~rea but was rnoVE!d out. You now, 5ir, h~'.ltJt.:! a chance to bt~ing it. back again. No. 5 1\225

Fire protection: the unit existed a number of years ago . It was moved out, and no1.u it can come back again. In the area of the economy, Sir, we have perhaps one of the most vibrant fishing districts in the entire Province. The Co-op on Fogo Island has established a great fishery. It certainly needs some help. In fact, I think in the last session, the last government allocated a · $1.5 million guaranteed loan for the Fogo Co-op to keep moving. Earlier this year, I made representation to the Minister of Fisheries, askjng for assistance for thE! fisher·men of Fogo Island with respect to the caplin fisher·y.

As of, I think, 5 June, the caplin season opens and, to this date, no help has beE!n forthcoming for the fishermen of Fogo Island with respect to moving their graded and ungraded caplin frorn the Island. The town of Musgrave Harbour, the largest community in our district, has applied to both provincial and federal governments for secondary processing of fish. The previous administration, in consultation with the fE!deral governrnE!nt, approved ACOA funding and NORDCO is now doing a study.

We hope this government will expand the fish plant and giVE! thern the secondary processing necessary to generate employment in our area. In the arE!a of tourism, Sir, our distrjct is perhaps one of the most underutilizE•d districts in the Province . From Lumsden all the way to Musgrave Harbour, we have some of lh~:! fin est, sandiE·~~ t: bE!d.ChE!S, and pE!rhaps UlE! Minish!r of Development u.d J 1 noiAJ put some money in placE! - 1..226 June 1, 1989 Vol XLI MR . SIMMS: He should carne out for a swim. MR.

WINSOR: Y(;~S, E!VE!n COITIE! out for a st.uim. so the necessary facilities can bE! upgraded and improved upon, so that this vibrant, economic kick-start can get our area going. Also, we haVE! the gr·eat Gandt:!r river, which has beE!n usod by many tourists throughout thE! year's . We need massive government expenditures to further develop it. Forestry: In 1961, our arE!a tAJas devastated by a major Fire. The past administration started a silviculture program in l:hal are a . WE! arE! a s k i n g t h :i s government notAl to continue t:he work in forestry that the previous administration had started.

The problems of Fogo dis t~r·ict ar~:! rnany. We ask that this administration would, over the next fE!W days, as it pr'E!pares :its budget, make· allocations to our district so that WE! can becon1 c~! equal partnE!rS <:And be i:rea t:E:'d fa:i rly, as the Pr·errd.Pr' pi"CHrd s ~=·d. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Exploits. MR. GRIMES : Mr . Speak€~r, before I bE•g.in l:o addr·ess hon. rnernber:~ of Uds hon.

HouSE!, I would bE! 1~e1niss H- I d.id not, like other·s, take ~! a mjnute Lo congratulate yourself, S.i.r, as the re--elected ITIE:!rnbE•r for· Bonavist:.a North on your election by this House to the Chajr, as Speaker . As a pr·evious v-:i.s:il:or to Lhis hon. AssernbJ.y and l:.h:is hon. l·louse, :i.n the gallery, I wtll miss your participation in debate, having No. 5 R226

witnessed you in many, knowing that you were a master of it and also that you enjoyed it immensely, yourself, fr·o1n a peJ~sonal point of view. I r·ecogni ze fully that you, too, must be going to miss that a little bit, because you could not miss thE! opportunity today, beforE ! we admitted our strang ers and visitors, to take an opportunity to make a speE!Ch anyway, even though you are not suppos ed to bE ! doing that in the Chair, as I understand it. But who would I be, Mr. SpeakE :~r. t:o try and tE!l1 you how to do your job? I Cl:=!rtatnly would not eVE!n attE!Inp 'l: to do the like of that.

I would also like to congratulat e the Deputy Speaker and Chairman of Commit tee s, the hon . member for Trin.i.ty - Bay de VE!rde (Mr . L. Snow), and thE! Deputy Chairman of Committees thE! member for BellevUE! (Mr. Barrett), on thE!ir elections and appointments . I know for sure that they will do a marvelous job in their roles, because, of course, not onJ.y thE:~ tv.Jo of them but you, yourSE !lf, Mr. Speaker, all come from the ranks of colleagues like mySE !lf, teachers.

I guess from prE!V:ious experienCE!S we also know, and I gu es s the phrase that has been used in this House in the la st f ew days is that the former Premier, and the Forrner --for '111er Prern :ier a1so ca rne from the ranks of th e tea ching force and they have demonstrated t h e i r c a p a b i l :i t. i. e s to r· i s E! t h r· o u g h the ranks and to demon strate their ab:l1ity to be true leaders in Newfoundland. I am su1ne that you people, as th ey hav e di splay ed in theiT rolE!S, tJJ.i1l show a great. ab ility to per·form the roJ es that havE• bE!E!n bE!

S l:ot.u c::•d upon you in l:he duty of thi s Hou se. Congratulations to all three of you. 1..227 June:: ~ 1, 1989 Vol XU Mr. SpE:~aker, I lJ.Jould also J.ike to congratulate all members present upon their eJection. For retur·nees, th E!r e :i.s no doubt .i.n rny mind that:. it . is a tremE!ndous vote of confidence. The side of th e House you arE• on does no t. ma tt er, in that it means that the people have ~poken again and they have expresSE!d a tremendous vot e of confidence in the J.evpJ. of representation received from these seatE!d HIE!mbers as th< "! previou s members of this Hou se .

I have always firmly bE!liE!VE!d in the statement that the majority is nE !VeJh wrong . ThetnE! is no doubt that I som etimes que stjon thejr judgement and their wisdom, but they are never Lt.n- ong, and returning members should be honour ed by that vo tE! of confidence. For new membE!rS, lik1;! rnysE<lf, I think it was never more evident than just a few days ago, at l:he opening of the House, what a great honour it is ·to stand hE!r 'E! as onE· of fifty -two Newfoundlanders choo se n by the el ectorat e to represent them in the government of this Province.

I find it a gr 'E!at honour, and I am sure that the oi :hE!r new mernb er·s find .i.i: to be exactly the same. SOME HON. MEMBERS: HE!ar, hE!ar! MR. GIUMES: Two new me111bers, Mr·. ~)peaker, I must also pay p<.>.r'i:icul.ar' note l:'.o, the member for St. John's South (rll r . M u r p h

y) a n d l: h e 1 n E! 1 n b E! r· f o r LE!lJ.Ji.spor·te (Mr·. Penney), for moving and seconding the Address in RepJ.y to I: he han. Speech frolfl ThE! Throne. I was r::~o i nq l:o s a.y somethjng nicE! about. both of thelfl any way , but t.hen I realized afterwards that I really had l:o No. 5 IV2'7

for two different reasons. One, Mr. SpE!aker·, is that the hon. the mE!mber for L~!wisporte has aJ.ready bE!E•n mistaken on a number of occasions, especially by the hon. member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren), as myself. Therefore, I must say something nice abo~t him. Because if he looks that much ljke! me, he cannot be that bad after all, and I hope at least he behaves as well as I do mos t of the time. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hE!ar! Ml~. GIUMES: Also, M1~. SpE!aker, I must take a minute to say that my sister advised ml~ that I had bE!tter say something nice about the member for· ~)t.

John's South when I stood in the House, or I would have some family" difficulties. I was planning on saying something nice anyway, hon. member, but with thE! few words from my sistE!r, I had to make surE!. Before I make a few comments about the district I represent, Mr.

Spe!aker·, and also about thE:~ Speech from The Thl"one, I would like to take a minute in this House to congratulate · the Leader of this GovernmE!nt, Premier WE!l].s, on several things: First of all, the terri f:i. c job the Premier· did as Leader of the Opposition in reorganizing this Party, also the tremendous job PrerniE!r Wells did on leading this Party to a tremendous election win on April 20, and also on showing the leadership already in this House and wi th thjs gover·nuiE!nt ., that is obviously cornrnitb:!d l:o sc~rvice for our citjzens in this Province.

It is lAIO I~ k L.228 a plea sure, jVJr. close 1 y tAJj t h June 1, 1989 Spedkc~r. to this f:LnE ! Vol XLI gent] eman and Leader. It. is aJ.so a pleasure to be part of a t.oarn that is committed, as thE! PrEHrliE!Y' is, to fairness and balanco in serving the people of NetAJfoundJ and and Labrador. I would also like to say, Mr. Speaker, that it. is a pJ.easur·E· to serve with a Leader and a PrEHn:Ler who is not only commit~ed to doing the right thing, which has been stated in this House a] rE!ady, but also in doing the right thing right.

I think you w:i.JJ see more and more examples of that in l:.he days ahead in this Legislature. Mr. Speaker, I would i:'llso :U kE! i:o congratuJ.ate the Prerrder', and the Leader of this governm~e !nt, on his obvious good choiCE! in chosing rne to work so closely with hirn as his parliamentary assistant. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. GRIMES: That kind of good SE!I'Jse be obvious agatn in thE• the decision making Leader is part of. IAdll also Future in that our Mr. Speakor, about th(:~ district: I represent: I am very proud to reprE!Sent the still young dis tric l:: of Exploits.

ExpJ.oits, for those of you who might not bE! fam :i.Liar, is a district that has on1y b~:.cn in existence since the redistr·ibution in 197~), so I cannot talk about a long hi stor y of this di.stric t. HoiAJf~ver ·, I an1 put into l·:hE• posit.ion now oF having thE! SOinE!lAJhat. OnE!I "OUS and humbling {:ask of l:rying t.o fo11otAJ, j_n some sma] l way, :Ln the footsteps of one of the finest gentleman who ever graced this House of Assembly, Dr. Hugh TtAJomey. SOME HON . MEMBERS : No. 5 I~ 228

Hear, hear! MR. GRIMES: The degree of respect, Mr . Speaker, with which that person was held was evident throughout the district as I travelJ.ed thE!rE! throughout the election. It is understandable to all who have ever met the man, and all who know the rnan, and it. is cJ.ear in the disri ct when you sp eak anywhere in Exploits of Dr. Tu1omey, th e former member, and Minister. of HE!alth most recently, that he was not only a g~::1nt:lEnT1an, but the other · phrase they use :i.s that he is a gE!ntlE:1 man.

I find it qui ·te on erous to bE ! put in th e po sition of trying to follow in the footsteps of su ch a pE!rson, but I plE!dge l:o the lJOtE!rS of t:he di str·ict of Exploit s that that is what I intE!nd to l:ry to do. I arn sure that all mE!rnbers of thl': 1 House, as well, t.uill join with rnE! in wishing Dr. Twomey well, because he is experiE!ncing. as we all know, some severe mE!dical difficulties at the present time . We wish him the very best. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR .

GIHMES: As with thE! fortnl':'r rnembl':~r For explotts, I wtll u:~rtainly attE!rnpt at alJ. bmes to try to avoid any derogatory reference s to hon . mE: 1mbE•rs oppos:i.i:E!, even though I am convinced, and \:.hey know in my conversations wit h th em, as wi th othE!r S I am pi"E!l:ty sure. that thE!Y are a 1itt1e bit poJ. itically tnisguided . They think thE! samE! about me, but that is fa:i r; that is the beauty of our democratic sy stE: 'lTI, Mr ·. SpE!a ker . For th e mo st part, I lAJEAS conv'.in ced \:hai: one or th e reason s I ran for the par ty on \:his sidE! of t:hE!

Hou se, notAl i.n government, is that I wa s L229 Jun e 1, 1989 Vol XU definitely convinced that the usually confrontational appr oach taken to government by th e previous adm-ini stration was in error and wa s not the IAJay that :it should be don e. or had i:o be donE !, and I am hoping that I can continUE! to convince, in some way, the mernbE !rs in governnH :!nt on thj s side of the House to refr·ain Fr ·om that approach and to maintain a commitment to fair, open, government, dedica t ~d to balance and fairness for everybody. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. GRIMES: --- ·-·-·----- I rn:Lghl: note, iVJr.

Speaker, l':hal': r IJ.Jould be probabJ.y a ] :i t:t ] e rend . s ~; if I did no\: mr0nt:ion th al: in rny previou s dealing s wi th th e governmE!nt as a Past Pr 'E!Sidenl: of the Newfoundland Teacher s 1 Association, I did find th~::1 for'rner Minister of Education (Mr. Hear·

n) to be a refresh'.ing exception to a general perception I had of how governmc::~nt dealt. The hon. m E!Inbc ~r for St. Mary 1 s - The Cape (Mr . Hearn) display ed mu ch mor E! of the kind of approach that I personal ly would like to see taken in government, and which I will encourag e memb E!rs on i:hi ·; l:o continue to take with regard to governing and problem solving on behalf of th e people of the Prov'.i nce. Many of the in-itiatives outlined :i.n thE!

Gracious SpE!ech fr·o111 t.he Tht"one t.ui11 be of in LE:!l"E!S L l:o Lhe residents of the district. of Exploits, and the thirteen cornmun:H:ies that rnake up Lhat dist:r· .. ic\:. I\: is shor·t: on h:i.sl:ol"'Y d . t . I 1· I as a J.s ·-rJ .C':, a~;; . ·1auE· :i n d i c a l·: e d , b u 1: i l: i s c e r \:. a :i n 1 y long and not Jacking on her·:i.tagE• and pride. I IAIOu1d li .kr'! \:o take! a couple of rninu'LE'~;. if I could, Ml"'. No . 5 1~22')

Speaker, to familiarize yourself and the House with the district of Exploits. There ar'E! close to 14-,000 peopl~:~ in the district, Mr. Speah~r. sprE!ad over som~~ thirteen communi ties, all of them running North of the mighty Exploits River, and stretching into thE:~ beautiful Bay of Exploits and into scenic Notre Dame Bay. In that district, you find a cross

section of both rural and urban ways of life, and there are many challenges to b~ found in · that cross-section for the government. But not only are there challenges, there are also many opportu ni ties For government in that district . At the SouthE!I~n tip, M1ft. Speaker, if you look in the d:lstrict, you come across the agricultural community of Wooddale. In Wooddale, you have genuine agricultural enterprise being pursued in the CE!ntre of the Province that has continued therE! and defied all kinds of obstacles, and continues and pE!rsists because of the working commitment of the people in that area.

There is also the tree nursery in the ar~~a. the silviculture station for the forestry. There are no votE!rS there, but lots of wonderful trees that . are going to contribute to the ongoing good for·tunes of the forestry industry in NE!lJJfoundland. On~S! thing I might mention to the House, Mr.

Speaker, is that someone might consider, again, a further r'E!c3.lignrnE!nt of the votE!rs, because we have a pocket of voters in that agricultural cornrnun.il:y who haV(?. to dr·ive thr·ough thE! district of Grand Falls in order to go into the di strict of Exploits to vote. 'It may be a lit :.tlE! sor 'nl?.thing t.hat migh t have bE!Pn mis~~ed the J.ast time, bul: I w.ill certainly bE! pursuing with people in the proper L230 JunE:~ L 1989 Vol XLI position, to try to have that changed, if at a11 possib1e, prior to the next election. Mr.

Speaker, community of we then Bishop's gE!t to Falls. t lw I guess eVE!ryone recogn:iZE!S B::i shop's Falls as being probab1y the former railway capital of Central Newfoundland. ThE!re is no doubt about that, a ] ong proud hi s tory relating to the railway. A bit of a sad story, in a v.Jay, but a1so, again, one of those si tuat.ions where there is not only a challenge but also an opportunity presenting itseJ.f for government.

I just mJ.ght. comment, Mi". ~>peaker·, that dur·ing the election il: was a little sad, :in a v.ray, Lha t. whLL e the then Leader of the Opposi t.ion visited those di splaced workers who are now st:r·iv'ing for· something nEHAJ to do, that th(~ Prern:.i.er of the day, on his visit to that community, avoided the wor ·ket's at. the railway and did not want to address their concerns. They havE• many opportunities that will op10:~n up to them because of the fine work of the council in that area, in thE:'ir managing and handJ.: i.ng of the somE! $'7 million thdt. carne in the roads for ra:i ls agi"E!E'ITIE!nt.

ThE!Y v.Ji11 try, if at all possible, to make the best of that particular deal. With it, they will continue to forge opportunities through the B i s h o p ' s F a 11 s 0 E>~J e 1 o p 111 e n 1: Corporation. They are working hard to make sure that anyth ing that can be done to rPvitalize the economic base• of that cor11rnun.ity wi11. be done in the very near future, us-Lng l:he monies av ailablE! . ThorE! ar E! many exa mple s :Ln i: ha 1: area, particu larly with co rnmun-:il:y of Bi shop's Fa ll s L. hE! i.n I: he IJJOrking ver ·y closE<.l. y 1..\J:.i I h No. 5 1~230

adjacent - MR. RIDEOUr: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Mr~. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. RIDEOUT: I am very reluctant to int~rrupt. the hon. mernbE!r, particularly a new member making hjs first speech, but did I hear the· hon. member say that I refused to meet with a group in Bishop 1 s Falls regarding the railway? If I heard him correctly, I can say honestly and factually that I had no r'E!quests to rneet: !Arith anybody in the district of Exploits. Even though I was in that district threP times during the campaign, I had no requests to rnE!et lArith anybody in particular.

That is the truth from my perspective. I would not want the hon. gentlE!man to unknowingly mislead the House, and I know he would not want to. MR. GRIMES: To that point Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: of order, Mr. The han . the member for Exploits. MR . GRIMES: If I used the wo1~d 1 refuSE!d 1 , Mr·. SpE!aker, it. was a poor cho:iCE! of word .in g , in that thE! P r·1:nni E! r of the day was in the district at the time and di~ not avail of opportunities to meet. I knou.J of no rE!quest. And iF I l.::~ft that impression, Sir, I do apologize. SOME HON. MEMBERS: HE!ar, ~war·! MR. SPEAKER : The hen. the member For Exploi ts.

L231 'June:~ l, 1989 VoJ. XLI MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To continue, again if I eVE!r, :i.n poor use of words, offend any member, I indeed would like it brought to rny attention so thc-1.1: I would be giVE!n thE! opportunity to apologize. SOME tiON. MEMBERS: HE!ar, hE!ar! MR. GRIMES: As I was · saying, Mr ·. Speaker, the1~e are pr·ime examples in that area, particularly wjth the c]os~~ proximt ty of Bishop 1 s Fails, Cr·and Falls and Windsor, that are leading examples of co -operation on the municipaJ. level oF sharNJ services.

Many of those representations have aJ.ready been made to the current Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs. Previous Minist:E!rS of Murr.icipal Affairs are well aware of that, and I am sure that all of thern would applaud the councils, particularly the council in Bishop 1 s Falls, in my riding of Expolits, for their efforts and their !Ad11:i.ngnE!SS to sharE! in those kinds of services, rather than each community wanting its own of everything. Bishop 1 s FaJ1s, aJ.so, M1~.

Speaker, is recogniZE!d as a forestr·y CE!nt:r·e in Central Newfoundland, and we are hopE·ful that: Lhe curTenl: plant: at Bishop's can cont:i.nue t.o E!XpcHld and provide a lllUlt:il:ude of SE!rViCE!S rE!lated to thE! for·es Lry, for all of Central Newfoundland, from the current existing facility. In Thirteen Mile Crossing, in Bishop's FaLI.s, M1~. Speaker, there e-we currE!ntly petil::i.ons be:i ng circulatE•d by Lhc• residents because t:hey, unfortunately, feel that even though theirs is the oldest No. S R231

historic part of the community, they have continually been neglected because they are physicaLly slightly rE!Inoved from the downtown center of the community. Those kinds of things are being brought to the attention of government officials. hopefully to- be addressed and redressed in the near future. Bishop 1 s Falls, Mr. Speaker, I might conclude by saying, is a grow ·ing. vibrant community, · even though they suffered a major setback with the closure of the railv.1ay.

But the people have the kind of fiber that. t.vi ll rna k e thE•rn refuSE! to give up, and they wiJ.J. continue to pursue positive outcomes for the future of thEdr town. Moving on to Botwood, Mr. Speaker: Botwood is recognized as one of the matn ports for all of Central Newfoundland. Hot.veve:~r. unfortunately it is rumored to be in somewhat of a decline, mainly dUE! to decreased use and activity on behalf of the paper miJl in Grand Falls. The railway, again, used to truck ore from Buchans and paper from Grand Falls to that very busy, vibrant port. Those activities have ceased.

In the matter of ore being transported they have sloWE!d down. and in l:he matter of paper being transported, and there are rumors that activity is gcd.ng to decline E!VE!n morE! in the near futu1~e. HOWE!Ver, that council, ag.ain, Mr·. Speaker, in representing the members of its community, is doing a very good job of trying to promote the community as a supply base, and in trying to find another niche for it in the Fabric of Central Newfoundland and the whole of Newfoundland and Labrador. II: is co ntinuing as a 1.232 June 1, 1989 Vol XLI service CE!11ter of sorts.

Although the cottage hospital j_s indeE!d closing down, it will be replaced by a new chronic- .. care fac:i .J.j ty which will open a litt.lE! later in this month. Again I might note for this House that the intention, at the present time, is to have that new facility natnE!d :in honour of the previous member for the district, the han. Dr. Hugh TwolflE!y. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. GRIMES: As with other comrnuni·Ues :in many ridings and districts, Mr.

Speaker, there are needs, c:-1nd I .. he nE!E!ds for this community, :in :i.l~s hope to E!Xpand, :include exLE!ns:ions to :its t.vater and setME!r sysb: !tn, better roads, and, again, a CI"Y for a regional :incinerator, another E!Xample of comrnun:i ti., ~·s willing to do things on a regional, co--operative basis in Central Newfoundland. There are proposals not.v be·.'Lng drafted to put before government for new usagE! of thE! old Bol:t!Jood cottagE! hospital facil:i .t.y.

I cllll hoping that as the town fleshes out the dE!tails of their plan j t w'.ill lnE!Ed~ with support and approval from goVE!rntnPnl~. so that it can be used again as the CE!nl~E~r of that community. I IAIO U 1 d a]. S 0 1 i b~ t 0 '1:: a k C"' a m:in ute, Mr. SpE!akE!r, l:o rnake part.icuJ.ar ITIE!ntion of hOL\1 Pl''oud I am of the Boys and Girls Club that operates in Botwood.

It is a shiny examplE! of what can ha.ppE•n when parents and young people work togethE!r· to pi~ov:Lde fac.il.il ·.:.i:: •s and activities for the youth of our different communities. fhey have done an exceptional job in Lhe co1nrnu ni l:y of Bol~tMood. No. 5 1\23 2

Mr. Speaker, moving on to the Community of Northern Arm just outside Botwood, it is a residential community. ThE!re are many pr·ofessionals from the whoJ.e cr:~ntral area who have located there, but it is also horne base for a number of local operators in the woods and trucking industries. Th ey, too, have a rat:hE!r eXE!rnplary council, which I think rates amongst the highest in terms of E!ffort to co1lE!Ct taxes in the municipal str·ucture a·nd to put services in place for that community.

They have already lobbied for continued assistance in extending their water and sewer system, bE!Cause they arE! one of l:hE! grotAring communi ties :in Centr<"l1 NewfoundJand, where they have many requests for building lots For people to moue in, but are not YE!t able to access or use them because of the lack of proper infra~tructure. They probably do have the greatest potential for growth as a residential area, and they have been a model in years past. If we go down the East side of the district for a couple of rn:inutr:~s, 1\llr.

Speaker, down t:he Bay of Exploits, you run past Phillips Head, Point of Bay, Cottrell's Cove, Moore's Cove and into Fortune Harbour . Many of t:he people working on that side of the district are part -time Fishermen. That indust.ry, unfor·tunateJ.y, is in a little bit of a declinE!, but many of them are aJ.so part-time woods workers, working for the companiE•s, 1oca1 sat.~-nni11E!rs and t:he like. ThE!Y also provide many willing, hard-working labourers For cons l:ru c t:.io n wo1n k t.ha t: gOE! s on thr·oughou t a] 1 of NetArfound1and and Labrado1n.

Th (;~ y, cd : fall en on th e pre se nt: tim e, hav e so mE•wh at ha rd ti rnes and L2 33 JunE! 1, 1989 Vol XLI are a little concerned about possible impacts of changes in the UIC schemes, and many of them, unfortunately, find themselv es living at LimE!S on social. assistance. Their greatest need in that par·t of thE! d:L~~trict, Mr·. Speaker, continue ·s t:o be the very basics: safe drinking water, proper sewer systems, pavement.

I was very pleased with the Minister 1 s state1m:~nt of j u~;t: a coup1e of days ago, indicat'ing that fur ·t_hE!r paving pr·oject:s t.~-dl.J. go ahead in that part of Exp1oi.ts District. As wHh aJ] Newfoundlanders everywhere, their biggest cry and their bjgges t pl ea is that they would like to have work . _;r hey are proud Newfoundlanders, and there is nothing that: would pl.ease th E!ITI more than gainful employrnE!Il l:. so that thE!Y can providE! for· themselves and their families. While I am mentioning safe drinking tJJater, I might note for the House, Mr.

Speaker, that it: was only yesterday that I received a call from the local serv ice district in Cottrell's Cove, indicating that thE! chlorinator for the only waterline in town had broken down and they had to put in efFE!Ct a 1 boil wat.E!r 1 or·der as :is common in rnany small corrnnun :itiE!S i n N e tJJ-F o u n d 1 and . I a 111 p l e a s (! d t: o say that the Depart .menl: of Municipal and Provincial Affairs had oFficial s on l:he sc E!nO, Lry.ing to recl :.ify the s: Ltuat:ion, imrn1:!d :ia tE! 1 y.

Many of th e lo ca l s ervi ce d:i.st.ri cts, 01 ~ comrnun :it:y co un cil~~, in l:.hat: pal ~ t: oF U H:> d :L st· .,~ ict:. , 1"11 " . Speake r·, ar·e try ing very har·d , but: they do, aft E•in al l, hav e l.i.i:l: .l u 0 1~ no tax base an d :it. ofte n appE>a l~~. to them to be a lo si ng battl e. The re js so 1n e hope s h o 1.~-rin g :in Lhcd: : No. S 1\23 3 -.

side of thE! district, particularly in the FortunE! Harbour· area, whE!re there is quite an enterprise going ahead with attempts at aquaculture, in farming mussels, and they are very hopeful about it and very positive. They wouJ.d like me, on behalf of all the peopJ.e in Fortune Harbour, CottrE!ll 1 s Cove and Moore 1 s Cove, to extend an invitation to all han. members present, if you get an opportunity, to visit thE! area during the Summer and take

part in the mussel fE!StivaJ., which is hosted in Fortune Harbour but runs throughout that whoJ.e part of the dts l:r.ict. If anyonE! gets the opportunity, it would be an experience you would all enjoy. Down the other side of the District, Mr. Speaker, you run through Pleasantview or Pleasantville, depending who you ~alk to in the community. It registers a certain way in the official governmE!nt documents, but the residents prefer it be caJ.led otherwise .

A s ma 11 s c a 1 e agricultural enterprise is going on, but, again, there are a number of ready, w:i lling laborE!rs in the area and their greatest plea is for someone to please fin:i.sh the road. In many cases, :it does not take a lot to please the;~ re•sidents of t:he district, and you you can see that their requests have• beE!n JhE!duced to l:hE! very basic things, as they see th(:~rn from the:.i.r J.oca1 perspective.

When they realize, sometimes, that maybe the road may nol': be finished, they E!Ven thE!n go back t:o their SE!COnd position, which is to say, 1MaybE! you might even take onE! or tlAJO of the r'E!a1 bad tuJ~ns out oF it this year. 1 And wi·Jc:!n they get to their finaJ. position tiwy say, Mr.

Spel'l.k::!r, 1MaybE! you t;.ri11 coiTIE! dolAm again c~.rU:h those wondr:!r'ful l:J"ucks and at J.east fJUt t.hE! caJ.cium chJ.oride on 1..234 JunE! 1, 1989 Vol XU it. so that the dust stays down. 1 So you can see that the people have been welJ. beaten down in their expectations, and we would hope that over a period of ·U .rne, at least I hope as their rep r E! s e n tat i v e a n d the 111 C:! rn be r· for the district, their neE!dS surf<~ce on the priority list in the near future so we can address thE!m for them.

In Point Leamington, Mr. ~)peah!l", again you have;;! a pi"ogrr:'SSil;e, well-managE!d town w:Lth a finE! council in place . They are developing and · gr·owing. They ar'E! trying their very bt:!St. fhE!Y had one of the most positive E!XperiE!I1Ces r1:>CE!ntly, mainly becaus~::~ of the jrnpacl: that residents of Po:Lnt LE!amingl:on 111ade after thE!Y traveLled aiAJaY fr'olll Newfoundland.

Because of the tremendous reputation that Newfoundlanders from Point Leamington made for t.hemSE !J.ves as workers on the Mainland, in Acton, Ontario, a company in that town decided that rathE!r than have Newfoundlanders uprooted and come to Acton, they would relocal:e part of their enterprise in Pojnt Leamington and let those native NewfoundJ.anders do the work for thc:Hn at~ home. So that type of entE!rprise is ongoj ng notAl, growing and expanding, and we hope for more of the same in the near futuJ~E!. r he y are a s k i n g i n l: h a t p a r t o f the District, Mr·.

SpE!clker, for· Further expansion to the senior citizens complex. They noJ;.J havu an c=:!xpanded list of J"et::irE!E!S L\Jho would J. ike to be able l:.o stay :i. n good housing, close to their hornes, rather than n1oue out" ol l.:he Distr'ict. Thal: reqUE!Sl: is br:!f0r1:! thE! a fJ p r· o p r· i ate ofF i cia J ~; a t l. he present tilnE!. rhey dine hopE!fUl for' th:is year·, as everybody is, No. ') IV34

• I but, again, some people, I guess, IAJi 11 have to wait. But it will not be due to lack of lobbying efforts on their part, or on rny

part in their behaJ.f. Mr. Speaker, moving on to GJ.over·s Harbour and Leading Tickles, at the extreme end of the District: Leading Tickles may be the most prospE~rous fishing community in that whole part of the Island. The Clarenvi lJ.e Fish Company, with its plant i11 Leading Tickles·, hi:!S shown a visibJ.e prE~sence, and those people, when not activ:::~ in the fishery, are active in woods work :in the Win t:::~r and manage to find a fairly high lE!vel for· themselves year round.

Glovers Harbour is not quite as fortunatE!, but at least everybody is trying and hoping that their needs and wjshes will be presented before the members of the han. House, and before yourseJ.f, Mr. Speaker, by myself as their representative, and then to the appropriate officials in government for actioning, if at all possible. Both sides of the bay, Mr. Speaker, have enor·mous untappE:~d tourist potential. But paved r·oads ar'E! probably one of l:hE! prerequisites for · that, for both in-Province .visitors and out -of-Province travellers and visitor·s.

PE!y'lon Inn on the Bay, in Western Arm Brook, is available and, at a future tilnE!, possibly members of goVE!rnment might bE! invited, or any members of the House, for that mattE!r, might be invited to v:i.sit and s!:ay at that mar·velous facility and visit cd:hE!r sites, such as Bear Cove Park, :in Leading r-icklE!S, with its breathtaking scenery from the hilltop lookouts. L235 June 1, 1989 Vol XLI That area of the Province, Mr.

Speaker, is already a haven for Summer homes and cot (·:ages and cabins for residents frorn all ovE:or Central NE!tAJfoundland, and I arn sure that it could be promol:Ni as the same type of resort for people from all over. The ,~E!SidE!nl:s of ExpJ.oi t.s J.ove where thE!Y are and they want to stay there . They hope initiatives undertaken by this government will allow it to happen. In concluding, Mr. Speaker, I would just like to say that I look foru.Jard to serving with a] J. hon. membE!l~s i.n this hon.

HouSE! as L~E! try, together·, to improve:! the Jot of all of our citizens in all parts of Hd s wonderful p,~ovincE! of NeiAJfoundland and Labrador. I hopE!, Mr . SpeakE!r, that you IArL1 1 bear wi!:h me, and EWE!Inyone E!lSE:! in thjs han. House will bear w:Lth me, as I do everything possible to pr·omote thE! nE!eds and desires of those who just happen to be fortunate enough to live in the grE!at district of Exploits, uJh:l.ch I have been giVE!n thE'! tremendous honour !:o represE!nt. Thank you, Mr. SpeakE!r. SOME HON. MEMBERS: ~Te~· hearT·----·-·-··· MR. SPEAKER (Snow) : The hon. the member for Green Bay.

SOME HON . MEMBERS: Hear, hE!ar! MR. HEWLETf : Thank you, Mr. Speaker . It is wjth a great. de e-ll of pr:.i dE· tha !: I SpE!d.k to this hon. HousE• today ac ··' Lhe fifth ITIE:!tttber · fat" G('E'E!n Bay since ConFcdei"at.ion. I would like to congratulate Mr. Spoakor· on his election and o!:her· officers of the House as well. No. 5 1\2 3 5

Having sp(:~nt nearly fifteen years as an a·ide to former Premier Peckford, it is indeed an honour for· mE! to be inside this Chamber rather than passing in not.E:~s from the corridor. I remember cui th some amusement receiving mock military salutes from members of the then Liberal Opposition when I sat: in the galleries as Chief of Staff for the PrE!I ·nier. In those days LibE!ral members were inclined to call my boss a dictator and my quasi --military title seemE!d to suit them nicE!ly in that regard.

I wish my successor in the Premier's Office well, and I hope that the circumstanCE!& of his ernpJ.oyHJE!nt dci not r·equire that I give him a military salute. Rumours of a tightly controlled one-man government I hope are just that, rumours . HoweVE!r', performance of the government to date gives me no comfort in that regard. However, Mr. Speaker, this is my maiden speech and I digress from my task, I must speak of GrE!en Bay, a district proud of the fact that my predecessor in this Assembly was a P.C. Premier of considerable provincial and national stature.

However, prior to his election in 1972, GrE!en Bay was represented by Ljberals aJl this century. For a number of years we even had former PrE!mier ~3rna1lwood's son as our member. But I regret to say that, if anything, that meant the dist:rict was taken for granted, and neglE!C ted. For the fi1ns l: huenl:y years of ConfE!deration, Green Bay wa s treated as if it were not there, except at eJection time. 13c:d~orE! l:hE! PCs took over, Mr. SpE!aker I the only strip of paved highway in Green Bay was a few miJ.es from the Trans-Canada inlo Springdale.

WhE!n I <Jrew up, cl trip from Springdale to Robert's 1_236 JUnE! 1, 1989 Vol XLI Arm was a day's work over very rough roads. A trip to Pilley's IsJ.and, Triton or MilE! S Cove involved a trip in a boat. A trip to Beachside involved hiJJs that only a tractor could clilnb . And in most communities therE! tJ.Jere no water and no sewer. Seventeen years of PC stetoardship changE!d a lot of that, Mr ·. Speaker. Many roads are now rebuilt and paved . Many pla ces have a decent water syst em. HowevE:~r, Mr. SpeakE!r, much rE!lnains to be done.

The water sys tE!rn in Port Anson, the totAJn tJ.JhE !re I lAlas born, freez(:•s up E!IJE!lny WintE!r. Brighton has no ground water at all, and water had to bE! dcc.Jiver·ed door to door by truck. Long · Island and Lil:tlE! Bay Islands hi''liJe water systems only partly finished, as do Beachside, Lit :tle Bay and Brighton. The town of SpringdaJ.e, for all its public services and i.'l.rn enU:ies, has no sewer system in the east end. ThE! road to Harry's Harbour Jackson's Cove stili needs pavemE!nt .

And 1 as I not:E!d earl.i c,•r in Question Period, they lJ.Jer·E:! totally shut out of the road's program this Summer. The South shore of Green Bay has mel: all the requir'E!lrJE!nts for· an arE!na and received a commitment for s,':!lrle from the Rideout Administration. SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear, hE)ar! Ml~. HEWl ,_ETf : As the hon. minister respons ible knows, a determined delegation uJ:iJJ. be to pursUE! this l.\Jor ·Lht ... Jh:i1E! p ln o j E! c t .

A s t h e rn i n ~i. s 1: e r V.i-Lll find out , this group js Jed by th e crowd from Triton, and as Bill SmalltJ.Jood found out ther·e ar'E! no L to be trifled with . No. 5 1~2 3 6

A Provincial park has been started at Crescent Lake in Green Bay. This v.dJ.l be a model park in the Provincial system, the first of its kind, with flush toilets, showers and a trailer dumping system. It will he a destination park and a significant boost to the tourism industry of the area. The Liberal candidate I defeated was involved with the local Development Association when the stone walls, with the words 11 Welcorne to Scenic Green ·aay. 11 were built on the Trans-Canada Highway. Tourists .drive past thE!SE! waLls, Mr.

SpeakeJ~, and Crescent Lake Park u.lill help gE!t tourists stay in Green Bay and spe!nd rnonE!Y in Gret'::m Bay, if this current admi~istration continues to fund this park 1 s development. The Throne Speech put a speciaJ. emphasis on a regional approach to services. The South Shore arena for Triton ar·ea and the Crescent Lake Park near Robert 1 s Arm are regional projects. Mr. Speaker. I have two islands in my district that ar·e served with fE!rry systems. These systems were put in place at a cost of many millions during the ten year of PC government.

Now the Libera). party has promised to drastically cut ferry rates, Mr. Speaker, and the residents of Long Island and Little Bay Island look forward to thesE• rr:!ductions in the very nc:~ar futurE!. In short, Mr . Speaker, my district: suffered neglect when it had a L.ibE!ral gov::!rlrlcent mennb::!J~. With a PC member, one who eVE!ntually went. on to bcecome PrerniE!r·, the distr·i.ct made much progrE!SS. However, much l~emains to be done and rnany of my constituents are scepticaJ. that progress will continue.

They fear Green Bay will be punished for having elected another PC member L237 Junt~ 1, 1989 Vol XLI th:l s time around. They he!ard Liberal promises during the election about a new policy for the distribution of capital projects, but in spite of all the letters I have writ ·tt~n so far, no comrni tmen ts have been madE!. no tenders have been called. Well, Mr. Speaker. I inbHld l:o hold this governiTIE!nt to its uJol~d. The Throne Speech in particular put caveats on a lot of their promises 1 as soon as possible, - ASAP. We have hear·d of Aesop 1 s Fables. Mr·.

Speaker; notAl w::! have ASAP 1 s fablE!S, This government, MJ". Speaker·. rnade many promises in its bid to get eJected, promises that were easy to make from the Opposition benches, promises on educat:ion, promises on health care, social services, equitable capital spending, promises that are now being called platforms, Mr. Speaker. Platforms sound less binding and as an Opposition we will have to be vigilant that a slick change in words does not lead l:o a change in st.atc!d intent:i.ons. I am bu:i.J.ding a deck in rny back yard. Mr. SpE!aker. That deck is a platform.

However, if I tell my t.~.Jife that that dE!Ck ~;.rilJ. be 4- m x 5 m, constructed of top quality lumber and finished by July 1, that deck is not . just a platform, that deck is a promise. Ml". Speaker, this adlll:i.n:i.stl"at:ion has pr·omised rnuch and raiSE!d the expectations of our citizens to new heights. Much piE! in l-:l1e sky was promiSE!d, but E!Ven pie on lho ground has no value 'if it has no fil1'ing, 01~ is on1y filled IAd.t :h rno1~e sl:ud·.ies. Irnrne!d'ial :E! l~E·1'ief of thE! Province Is n ls sayeth the Liberal Medicine Show.

Now the Premier st.:a\:.(~S t:.hal: rE!-·Open:.i.n~J Meech lake is our cure. No . 5 R23 .7 -.

Well, Mr. Speaker, if you are unempJ.oyed, you cannot eat MeE!Ch. Remember the little old lady in the hamburger· ad, 11 Where • s the beef? 11 • Mr. Speaker, 11 WhE!re • s the beef? 11 The people of Green Bay eagerly await the budget. Thank you very much. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for LaPoile. MR. RAMSAY: Mr . Speaker and · hon. members of this most historic House, I prepar·ed my maiden speE!Ch as WE!ll today, and I hope to go a J j ttle further "than some of the other members in their first attempt at this.

It is not something that I am new to, in most respects, but I feel that I am privilE!ged enough to be here, possibJ.y a poor choice of words, but privileged l:o be here in this House as a reprE!Sentat.ive of the distr·ict of LaPoile. Today I tAd 11 speak to the Speech from the Throne, the content of which is highly imaginative, of course, it is u.1ell thought out, and most importantJ.y, fiscally responsible. Now this fiscal responsibility I speak of is thE! primary objective of this goVE!Innrnent of which I am a mE!mbE!r . WE! SE!cc!k a balance, a balance of fiscal and social rE!Sponsibility to our efforl:s, Mr.

Speaker·. Th1:!se E!fforts will succoed, as we pJ.an to keep our objectiVE!S as thE! priTIIar·y (joal t:owdrds which we u.ri11 wor·k . Han. rnembE!rs opposi l:.e have l:r·iE!d, and tried hard, I might say, in thE! past:, with thE!ir E!fforts towar·ds mak i.ng NewfoundJand a b<:'tter pJ.ace . But L238 June 1, 1989 Vol XLI in the world of business, efforts alone arE:~ not rewardE!d, as we can see by the public's choice of a majority of members on this side of th(~ House. OnE! should concentrate, Mr. Speaker, on keeping the objectives in mind, and not the problems.

We often fall into a trap of speaking about problems incessantly thereby forgetting where we are going, and what we are trying to. This is something thal: I feel IJ..Je possibly have done quite a bit in the past. WE! have to concc::~ntr·ai:e on our objE!Ctives, somE! of wh:ich fHs Honour the Lieutenant -Governor me n t i o n e d :i. n t i·H=! S p E! E! c h ft' o 111 t. h (! Throne, and sc11ne of which.[ IAJ.i.ll elaborate on a J.ittle later. Why, we might ask, iH'E! tAle s pea ld ng about the Throne SpE!ech, l~hE! onE! bound in the colour red as opposed to the colou1n blue? Mr.

SpE!akliH', I fE!el the reason is becausE:' the public lost confidE!nce. in l:hE• party of the members opposi i:.E! and their ability to manage the affairs of this Provincr:!. I haVE! some personal objectives in mind myseJ.f for this gouE!rnrnent, :i.n fu1l concurlnE!nCe, of course, tAli Lh my Leader, the hon. the Prerrd.E•r, a man I firmly believe, and I say this w:i.th conviction, IJ..Ji11 go down in the history of this Province as the most capable Pn!mier Newfoundland and Labrador hds e~Jt;!r S OE! n. SOME HON . MEMBERS: liear, hear-!----- · MR. RAMSAY: Mr.

Speaker, I know onl y too IAH,~11 that ther'e are pr·oblems here :in the workings of government:. We aJ.] stand around and speak abo1J l. 'why 1 , what are th( '! ln!:!asons For thE! prob] E!lliS IAH O! have. WeLl, I do not purport to be an expert on all t o p :i c s , b u t t h E!l'' e a r· e p o s s :i b J y a No. 5 R238

lot of different reasons as to why the wheels of government do not turn as quickly as they possibly should, and why we somettmes sptn in the mud, to use a phrase. Over the past few days I have been researching quite a bit for this speech, and one book I carne across tended to USE! a comparison about an electric fence. Now, if people have an electric fence, for instance, a farmer to preVE!nt: his cattle from going outside' the fence, then, rE!gardles s of whether there is any electricity in that fE!nce or not, becaus(:~ of the constr·ainl:s of this fench, the cows wiLl. not go near the fE!nce .

They will not go outside their boundaries, they will not expand on their efforts to further things, to go Further than the poss·ible drudgE!ry oF their little field. Mr. SpeakE!r, that is the epitome of people lacking a bit of crE!ativi t:y. I do not say that in a derogatory sense to anybody. Leadership brings about good things in other people, good leadership. I , as the member for Lapoile, my leadE!r and other m.;;Hnbers hE!n~ on this side of thE! House, I am sure we will receive good things from members on the other side as far as criticism t:o our polj ciE!S goes I and what have you. We look forward to that.

But, Mr.Speakerl this is the kind of constraint that LAJE! haVE! l:o SE!e; we can aJ.loLAJ peo ple to v.Jork within the conf:lnE!S of CE!l"tatn rules and rE!guJ.ations, sure, but not to say, no, -.it cannot be dorH:!. WhE!n peop1E! say things cannot be done, those E!XpE•ctat.ions, Mr. SpeakE!r, are l:he l·.irnit of what: they end up do:.i.ng, they IJ.J:i.J.J not go outside that. People who a1~e told that they only need ten saJ.es a monl:h, say, in businE!SS, uery rarely will go beyond that ten L239 JunE! 1, 1989 Vol XLI because it is an artificial limit .

So we have to expand and I as the SpeE!Ch fl"Orn the Throne says quitE! clearly, u.Je at'e up to the task. We hope ·to br-.ing in thE! policies, with new legislation and what have you, t:hat v.r.i11 allow ou1~ government to realize its goals down the way. I rnighi : add that some of these things take time. Members opposite someLi.mE!S want things done right away, but we take our time when we do th-.ings over here. We think them through properly and we make s~re that these eff6rts are aJ.l put forth with proper thinking and the proper amount of research. M~ .

Speaker, back to a little something which I ran across as well in researching for this speech. MR. TOBIN: You researched for that? MR. RAMSAY: Yes. We tend to make not get up extemporaneously, J.ike some other thts House. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. RAMSAY: sure that: t.JJE! do and spE!ak Mr. SpeakE!r, hon. members of Mr. Speaker, back to solnE!t:h:lnq which I ran across, and it sur-r-ounds a problem versus the solution.

As I lllE!ntionE!cl ear·l:.i .er', t h c~ pro b 1 E! m t.1.Ji t h t he prE! v i o u s administration possibly was, I fE!el, a tendancy to concE!ntrat:e on t:hj,s prob1elfl and not:: on the solut-.ion to the same problE•m. An exarnpJ.e, of cour'SE!, ~is t.he Sprung greenhouse. Init.tally this iJ.l-fatecl venture got ofF to a No. S R239

roaring start, Mr. Speaker. Just before the momentous election call of this Spring, while I was driv:ing back to my district from being in here in St. John's for some 1neetings with the Premier, Dawn Sprung Lt.Jas on VOCM Radio at that time and she mentioned at that tirne that ini tiaJ.ly - and I will pharphrase her somewhat - the cucumbers were growing so quickly and the yield was so high that the grid system in place at the time was not capable of handlin~ the weight. Now, this of course was something positive. I listened to this and I thought, 'Well, what happE!nE!d?

Why?' Now, it was looked at in the media, and we tended to look at it as WE!ll, t:hat if they could have sold us on the .idea maybE! we would have seen it as a positive, but that capability of selling us on the positive effects IJ.Jas lacking. That, Mr. Speaker, :i.s possibly why this effort failed . Because not only does something have to be a good technology, we also have t.o sell it to someone. You can have great products and great ideas, but unless you can make sure that people undE!rstand the greatness of these products, Mr.

Speaker, and these things we create, then no onE! tAli 11 buy it and no one wi.ll buy the idE!i:'l . I hav e been spE!aking about a pl~obl r:!m but, so much l:o l:hE• Opposition's delight, I arn certain, we should not talk about the pa s l. . That is ov er and donE! with . We should bury the pa st eVE!l~y day, they say. Use:~ it for r'E!ferE!nce, but bury it. The lm:~mb e rs oppo site, of course, :in the House today 1nay never have l:he opp ortuni ty, as was menti oned Yt:'S l:E! i~day hE!rE! in th :is hon. HouSE!, again, these particular members, l:o sit on l~hts sidE!. That :i.s a po ss ib ility .

I just offer th at L21W June 1, 1'389 Vol XI..I for a bit of reference to the hon . member for Burin - Placentia West. Now, lc~t us look at thr::• objectives. What do 1.11e plan to do as a government? Well, rE!Creal:ion is, of ccwrse, something that WE' look towa1nds. Just if I can f.i.nd this here - it has escaped rne. Anyway, I will get back to thts. Our main objective ts to hE•lp Newfoundland - MR. R. AYLWARD: And Labrador . MR. RAMSAY : and L.abr·ador -- I IAJas going to mention that afterwards - to become a fully participa ting rnernber of Confederation.

Another t.hing, of course, is to hopefully have, even though it is a mouthful, Newfoundland and Labrador said all the time, as l:he hon. Leader of the Opposi U .on dj .d so well during the election campaign. He was ver·y, VE:~ry careful to ·make sure that he always mentioned Newfoundlanders c~nd Labradorians as oppo SE!d to just Newfoundlanders. Now, thE! Opposition has chosen to pick at us about hotJJ wE• inl: end to ach ieve sucCE!SS, Mr . Sp eakE !r'. If the I.IJay we defeated th e1n in l:h E• eJection is any :i.nd:l cat ion, then SUCCE!SS is definitely wi thin our grasp. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

RAMSAY: ThE· bE!ginning of eff or·ts totiJards a better Newfoundl an d and La brador ar e underway undEH' Lh e capabl e 1eadE!rship of l:ht:o hon . the:· PrE!rn:i E:'r. We have a] r·eady se t: a course for prospel "ity and t-:hi. s can only be achieved j n one IAli-lY. h!e No. 5 lx24o

' must not condone our colleagues persuasion have in was a fatal error. SOME HON. MEMBERS: HE!ar, hear! MR. RAMSAY: incompetence, as of the blue the past.. That We have to, as I mentioned earlier, concentrate on the objectives rather than the problems, as outlined in His Honour's Speech from the Throne. Speaking of incompE!tence, but to use a better p~1rase, possibly, speaking of people and the training of people, staff of govc~rnrnent or what have you, many people spend 90 per CE!nt of their time dealing with problems that only influence 10 per cent of their productivity.

Now, in many instanCE!S, thE! previous government became so involved with problems that they totally lost sight of their objectives, a case in point being, as I mentioned earlier, the glowing apparition in the district of Mount Pearl. It is a clear caSE!, Mr. Speaker, oF not being able to see the cucumber patch for cucumbers.

Studies, which supposedly were done, I will mention, the whole Sprung affair, shows the management ability of the membc~rs opposite minus, of course, the ex officio guru of cucumbe1~s, the gentleman who now is anxious to consult busj_ness and industry on how to tap into governmE!nt pr·ograms, and political parties on how to win re -election. we~. Mr. SpeakE!r, the members on th) .s s:Lde of thE! House, prefE !r to consult with the Guru Ghiz of p. E. I. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear I hE!al~! L241 June 1, 1989 Vol XLI · MR. RAMSAY: Another problem, Mr. Speaker, a fa i:aJ.

E:HTor IA.Ie could caJ. 1 it, is the refusing to accept personal responsibility for the actions that have bOE!n t:akE!n in the past. It :is very obvious, as has been mentioned in the past, and also as has been mentioned here since this Forty-First Session of the General Assembly opened, that members opposite do not want to accept pE!rsonal responsibi.:U.t.y for the situation thE! Province is now in . They want to blame it all on outside sourCE!S, blame :it on the federal government, their colleagues in OttalJJa, the collE•agut:~s of the members of Her · Majesty's Loya1 Opposit:ion, dnd other outside foru's.

Now, to get anywhere with our quest to improve thE! situation :i.n NE!WfoundJand, IAJ\:! have to accept personal responsibility for what we do. That is a fundamental aspect of government: We have to be accountable to the . peoplE!. Ladic~s and gentlemen, I assure you that accountability has returned to this hon. House. We will be accountabJ e to thE! people of Lh:i.s Province, as was stated in the Speech from the Throne, for the efforl:s that we undertake to hE<lp improve the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador . Mr . Speaker, also there is leadership.

Leadership is accepting respons.ibilil:y Fo1~ OI1E! 1 S E!rr·ors. If l.I.Je rnak(:' a 1rd.s ta ke then we should ad1n.iL toil: , as opposf:•d to slid:Lng outside the question and saying, 'W•; <ll, that happE!nE!d;' not say:Lng it lAJas my fauJ.t. To be able~ to sa y 'it was my fault: is an honourable th:i.ng I M1 n. SpeakE·r. ll. is a1so Tllor ·c~ than that:. Be si des the ability to accept J"esponsib.ilit:yl it. is ha•ri.ng thE! wiJ.J. to cha nge th ings and thu No. 5 R241

ability to take a task, difficult. or not, and get it done. Mr. Speakc:!r, the~ people of our great Province have seen fit to entrust the stewardship of this Province to the members on thjs side of the House. It is a task that is both humbling and challenging. Mr. Speaker, I promise the people of this Province that this government cannot, shall not and will not abdicate its responsibility: We shalJ. provide lE!adership, real leadership for this Province For at least the next four years.

Some of the han. gentlemen opposite when difficuJ.ties sprung up chose to take solace in the bright glow of the natural Florida sunshine. Well, the sun is here now, Mr. Speaker, the sun is shining. Mr. SpeakE!r, the members of this side of the House shall not disgrace this hon. House by running away from problems so as not to be accountable to the fine people of our Province.

I r::Hnember well, during the election campaign, seeing many people who were very distraught at having to consider leaving our great Province because, even to say it as it. tAJas, their unE!rnploymE!nt would run out and there was no program in place for them. They_ could not wait to seE• what would happE!n, and several peoplE• in rny disl:rict have left. rhey lel~t because they wanted something secure, something soLi.d, and they did not ge:~t. that answer from members opposite when they were in government, IJ.Jhen the problem ar·ose in Januat~y, up unt:i1 Apt"il, t:hr::! time of the election.

My heart WE.'nt oul: to thorn. I l:old thc:!m, I promised them that we would act res pons i b 1 y and rna k E! c E! r i: a in that if t:he:~ situation !AlaS the satTIC WE! 1.242 JunE! 1, 1989 Vol XLI would defint tely have their probl,:!rns and not out in the cold. addressed lE!ft thc::~m Mr. Speaker·, this gove:'rnrnent. shaJ.l lead by lead:i ng, not lE!ad by running away. The confrontational. attitude is another thing which comes to mind.

The attitude of the past administration with Bi l1 59, the Construction Trades Agreement, and other things that happened through thE! years, s hoL1JS the way that things should not be done. I concur with the hon. member for Exploits (Mr. Gr:irnE!

S) on that onc::1, as hE! rnentjoned earlier. The approach, a good approach, I should ofr\:!r -- I cannot say the approach should have been I do not suppose -- but the approach possibly l:o negotiate with a common objectiVE! in rn:incl, not two dt fferE!nt objectives, OnE! for government and onE! for Jabor·, Mr. Speaker, to try l:o crec~tE! a harmony, a harmony w:i th a common purpose in rn:ind thal: would possibly have alleviated a l6t the difficulties that we1~e br·ought: up in these ar·eas tAJhen hon. rnetTibE!rs opposite were in power.

There is another aroa which is lacking within the halls of goVE!rnrnent, that is in thE! area oF pE!ople skills and human development. The wheels .atn::• starting to move in that. arecl, f'h ··. Speakc•r'. It 'is hE!I~e, though, that you SE!E! a bureaucracy, and I do not e v e:• n 1 :ike to usE! I~ he word burE!aucracy because :L·t irnpJ.:i .es something that is not working well by convent:i.on.

Mr· . ~3peaker, L.t.IE! ar·e tak:i.ng t.hc! initiative to make certain that any of these problems within governtnE!nl:, so thal: peoplE! wil:l'l'in thE! bureaucracy, as I rnent:ionod, do start to work bE!l:.l~E! r tog(~ th<:! r, that they E•nj oy tho ::i r jobs and, No. 5 1\242

hopefully to this end, goVE!rnrnent starts functioning better our districts will be much better off, all the districts, the fifty-l:wo districts of this great Province will be better off iF we start to get things hE!re moving in a much more quick and professional manner. Not to say that it. is not professional, Mr. Speaker, but certain things that happened back and forth within different departments, with political appoini:ees, in some cases, people without relevant training in the area where they were placed in gover·nment. That happened quite a bit:.

Being parachut.E!d into a department and placed, of course, on a pay scale above the majority of · careet' civil servants, peoph1 here and throughout the Province who toil in the trenches daily for the good of this Province, people who give their all to it. Now the past administration killed the ambition of some of these career civil servants. They are ready for a promotion ··- no, it is not call promotion - a competition to move up the ladder, as we would all likE! to do, and some of thE!Se people had others parachuted in front of them.

Some of them who were, of cotJrse, capable, others who got there just because of their stripe or their colour. Mr. Speaker, people had to dE•al with philosophy, which in the past an arrogant thE!Y so of - that delightfully accuse us i s the am u s i n ~~ t hi ·n g ; a n a rT o g a n t philosophy that we now stand accused of -·· but wh:Lch obviously E!Xis tr:!d beforE! WE! carne l:o power, Mr. Speaker. Smoke and mirrors, occasionally. Well, wonder we found the affairs in the state Mr . SpE!aker.

Look at L2 4-3 June 1, 1989 I rnentionE !d "it is no ProvincE! 1 s they werE!, somE! of our Vol XLI objectives directly from the Thr·one Speech here: The right to good paying jobs; educational opportunities; health care improvement; strengthening parliamentary democracy; limiting of Special Warrants; providing proper functioning of the Public Accounts Commit teE!; es tabli s hi ng other committees, as required, and, of course, the last one, television and radio being br'ought into thE! House. We also uli thin the Throne SpE!E•ch, wanted to ensure maximum return and benefit from all taxpayers 1 dollars.

Conflict of interest legisJ.ation, mak:ing sure that that was tightened up. We would address

an act on alJ. issues pE!rtainoing to family, farn.i.ly violence as well, women 1 s issues and social programs. AnothE!r: through sound management of the ProvincE! secure future For our most important resource, Mr. Speaker, the resource of our youth, u1ho leave regularly, and st.ill are, until such time as uJe get a bE!tt:er hold on thJ s thing, Mr. Speaker, and start to improve the future of this fine Province. We had an unset tJ. ed J.abour c 1 :i.1nate :in the past. Well hop€~fully !:hal: tJ.d.ll be a thing of the past.

Some environmental problem; things thal: are donE! for ' thE! sake of IAJhat ·j s Fiscally responsible in Lhe -pasl: not f:LscalJy, I am sor-ry, that :.i~; t:he u1rong word . Things Lhat di"C done because they are po1 :i.U.ca11y rE!spons-.ible in thE• pasl:, !:hat in regard to environmental issues. An enhancement of municipal government. As we mentioned, we are a bit overburdened wilh our munic:ipal sysl:.r.:•m as ·it now stands. Members opposite critic:iZ(! us For cons"idei":Lng changing thjs. Mr . Speaker, 1 No. 5 I~ 24-3

feel that we hau~~ to J.ook at. it, as was noted in the Throne Speech, and hopefulJ.y look at some consolidation and what have you. Hydroelectric power is ongoing. The fishery, which is all-encompassing to us. Mr. Speiker, my district especially, although not possibly one of thE! larger fishing districts, every community, of course, does haVE! a stake in the fishE!ry. For three or four their only source of income is the fishery. Hibernia, the oil deal; of cour·se, we all hope that this will succeed.

My district, at one time in the past, was privileged to have the former Minister of Development visit, along with the PrE:1mier at that t:i.rne, and announce an effort to construct a fabrication yard in Port aux Basques. These efforts are ongoing and it should see fruition very soon. Transportation: Well, transportation is something that sent a lot of pe!ople away from my distr:i .ct, Mr. Speaker. PE!Ople left because of the railway deal, they WE:~re dj splaced.

Th~~ resolution which I brought before the House a while ago, which we hopefu"lly will get up fo1n dE!batE! soon, as to thE! validity of the said agreement and also, too, the quality of negotiation which was given on our behalf by the previous administration. Defenu:!: WeJ.l, the N?'lTO issue. Of courSE!, we call it an ·issUE!, but I think it is an opportunity. Mr. ~3peaker. Senate reForm will hopefully giVE! us be tter ties with the federal powers. It SE!ems that: in t:hE! past, regardless of the party in powc~r.

WE! still did not manage to L2ll ·4 June 1, 1989 Vol XLI get the necessary co-operation betWE!en federal and provincial, as was evidenced during the election campaign between the federal and provincial parties. Restructuring differenl departments is something that is going to streamline our operation . The Loan Guarantee Act has to be changE~d. of coursE!, becausE! of some of the things that happened with glowing things Jn the night. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hE!ar! Ml~ . RAM~3(-W: Also, provincial control, things that we require control of and also input into areas like lhe fishE!ry. We nE!E•d that input.

We cannot say we cannot do it . W<:~ cannot say that the federal government :is alJ. encompassing over that issue. We hcwe to have some input, but tAle tAd.ll never gPt that input: by saying we cannot do it. If we keE!p saying that i'l. will do nothing but end up being true. Mr. SpeakE!r, just to finish up ht?.re, I want to cornplemE!ni: liis Honour on a fine SpE!E!Ch from the Throne. Also, J would like t:o thank the people of LaPoiJ.e district for this oppprtunity to represent them and their interests in th-.is hon. Houst~ of AssE!rnbly.

It is a responsibility which I t a k E• rn o s t s e r i o u s l y a n d o n e tAl h i c h I tJ.J:i.ll pE!rfor·rn to thE• be~~t of rny ab-ility. The peoplE! of rny di.strict.. Mr. Speaker, ar·e a pr·oud people, pE!oplE! tAJho haVE! not: only survived but flourisllE:!d, :i.n spirit, rnainly. Econorniccllly, it: has been difficult . They have f 1 o u r :i s h e d i 11 s p oi r· i i: o n t: h E:! In u g q (! d Southwes l Coas ·t of t:h:is Is land. I make:• th:i.s pro1n 'ise l:o 1ny pE!Ople: No. 5 R2t~4

"' Today in this han. House I promise that I will not just suruiue in this House but I will grow and flourish just as they haue, and will prouide them with the quality of representation which has been lacking in the past. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear. hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. t:he member for St. John's East Extern. . MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR . PARSONS: Mr . Speaker, although I 1.\Jas up on my feet before , i t tAla s on 1 y for a UE!ry, UE!ry short pE!riod and I d:i.d not haue the opportunity to congratulate you, Sir, Your Deputy and the Chairman of Committees.

Since I arn in this mood nol.\J, I might as well congratulate, too, all the new mE:~rnbers of thE! House who spoke me. I haue only bE!en here three YE!ars. You did a rnarue1ous job, especially the ones on this side. SOME HON. MEMBERS: li ear. hN'lr! MR . PARSONS: They WE!re pretty even the last laughed a bit at think that tJJa s MarinE!rs. good, I must say, gentle!lnan. He the E:'nd, but I becausE! of l~he Mr. SpeakE!r, my felAJ wor·ds atne going to be sort of concE!ntratE•d on onE:' aspect of the Speech fr·om Lhe Thro ne. I L~a s disappointed, re•aJ.]y, and surprised, t.hal moinE!

E!mphasis was not laid on our most valuable industry, t.he fishery. When we all look around this House L24 .5 June 1, 1989 Vol X l.I and outside the House, in fact, it inuolues euery pE!rson in this Prouince. Our ancestors carnE! flnom many areas: Ireland, England, Scotland, Wales, the Scandinavian countries, and they came her·e for one reason, Mr. SpeakE!r, and onE! reason onJy, and that was to fish the inshore. There was no off s h o r e , M r . S pea k e r , i t: wa s t h e inshore. I suppos~" I was blesSE!d with my anCE!Stry .

One of ·thern, my great-great-great-grandmother, carne from Cork, and my great-great -great-grandfather came frorn Deuon. I used to be r·eally proud unttl I found ou{: abou l: my Irtsh ancestry . AN HON. MEMBER : They were pirates. MR . PARSONS: I do not know if they were pirates or not, but I finally found l:hai: on one sidE! thE!re was England CHld on the other side there was IrE!land, and thE!Y are st:i .J.1 fa1n apart. But, Mr. SpeakE!In, our fishE!ry t.>.Jas then and is today our greatest industry. If our fishE!ry diE!S, so does the Prouince. I think our fishery is now in thE! dangE!r zone.

Fishermen have to]d us yea1n after year that there were problems out there and no one listened. I was down on the wharf in Torbay this mor·ning and on that point of land .in Flat:rock, and out: of thE! tlJ.JO commun:it.:Les and ten cod traps they had approximtely a thousand pounds of f:i.sh --not ftsh, Mr·. Speaker, tomcods, Fish that. year·s ago v.JouJ.d go under thE! stages, fish that woul.d nol: be looked at. It is a problem to get one l:o brinq horne for bineakfast. I suppOS('! you havE:' to ] ook at :.i 'L, Mr·. SpeakL•r, and ask, tAJhat caused Uw p 1~o b J ern? No. !> R2tp_;

We all know that Newfoundland was noted for its abundanCE! of fish, and so it was. But in the sixties people began to wonder about 1.1.1hat fish was out there and how long it could last with the technology that was available, and, Mr. Speaker, they created a study called the Kirby Task Force on the Fishery. Mr. Speaker, he showed everything rosy. Fish stocks would bE:~ at an FO. 1 of four hundred to four hundred and forty thousand metric tons. But; Mr. SpeakE!r, I arn sure that that man must feel sick on rising in the morning and looking at himself, because he deceived Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.

I often wonder where he got his information. From the scientists? I tJ.Jonder if hE! sort of tw1sted their arms to get them to tell him what he wanted to know? Our destiny was assured, btJt, Mr. Speaker, the bottom fE:~ll out. Kirby did not know what hE! was talking about. The fish stocks that Kirby assured Newfoundlanders and Labradorians were there were just non-existent, so in 1986, fishE:~rmen, plant workE!rs, plant owners, eVE!ryone, saw on the horizon a grave problem, yours truly included . WE! formed an association called NIFA, Newfoundland Inshore Fisheries Association.

Although it hcts been said, and said lately, that those people were people who did not know what they were talking about, Mr. Speaker, that is not true. At that particular t.ime, NIFA engaged the services of three prominent biologists, Dr·. Keats, Dr. GreE!n and Dr. StE!C:'le, frorn Memorial Univc:!rsity, and they questionc~d thE! vaJidity of many th:in~JS that W(!re previously statE•d in l:hE! other r·eport. What: thE!Y sa:i .d in E!SSE!nce was -- I am go:inq to read from this a littlE~.

I 1.1.rill table it: if you want il: tab1E•d L24-6 June 1, 1989 Vol XLI 1 Another major aspE!Ct of l·:h:is SCE!nario is, of courSE!, the siZE! of the TAC being set by t:he Department of Fisheries and Oceans. The TAC being used by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans is undoubtedly inflated and has been since 1 9 7 7 . 1 Now thosE! doctors presented this :in 1966. During the by-election of 1987, the hon. the Minister of Fisheries, the hon.

Tom Siddon, came down to Newfoundland and I had the pleasure and the privilege to take h'irn to somE! of l:he communities on the Avalon and show him firsthand what was actually happening in the fishery. During the tjrnE! hE~ L\Jas her·<::~, he came up with the idea of appointing anothE~r connn:ission, which be carne the Alverson rE!pOl~t. They, like the previous biologists, and I can see the House Leader ovE:~r· there--· I think he told us at one time that he was a bjologist, so he, pE!rhaps, wouJ.cl know the gentleman I speak of. But, anyway, Dr. Alverson satd the methodology used was questionable.

But we did not have to wait foln hirn to tell us that. Dr. Keats told us that in his report, that: the method bEdng used , the s c i en t t f i c research, t..ua s not up to datE!. I hE•ard the Minister of Fisheries say thE! othet' day Lhat he spokE• l.JJi th thE~ Pine~ s id<:! n l: 0 F l:: hE· Fishermen 1 s Union, and wjth both FPI and Nat:"ional ~3ea. 13ui: when I thJnk about it now, they rE~COinrnend(:!d at l:hat particu"la.in time that there shou1d be 300,000 pounds availablE! l:hrouc:3h l:he rAe. In it:s t.JJ:Lsdorn, the gover·rllnent put that to 266,000 . Now l.JJe havE• anot:hE!r inE!port.

Din. flarris 1 r·eport Js ~in. It :Ls not: fin a l.i zed , b u t: Lt~E• h au e i: hE~ F .irs t: No. S R246

part of it. Dr. Harris states that there is a crisis - the fishery of Newfoundland is at a crisis stage. One of the things he mentioned in that report was that the numbE!r of three YE!ar old fish had decreased. Those three to four YE!ar old fish, closer to four, are the fish that we thrive on, the fish that we catch. SeVE!n year old fish are the ones that are thE! spawning fish. Fish, believe it or not, have to be seven years old before they spawn. Anyway, Mr. Speaker, from rny point of view and from the point of view of those scientists and - AN HON. MEMBER : (Inaudible). MR . R.

AYLWARD : We picked one that was electable . MR. PA I~SONS: That is right, we picked one that was electable . Mr. Speaker, I think we are killing more fish than are bedng born. And the tr·uth is, instt~ad of thE! 235,000 the TAC was cut to this year, it should be anywhere from 150,000 to 200,000, no more. Even that might be a bit high. Perhaps it should be 150,000 to 175,000. I also heard people talk about the Nose and Tail of the Banks. Well, the Tail of the Banks does not make a great lot of difference jn this situation. The one we are really interested in is the Nose of the Banks.

ThE:•y say the problem that exisl:s today tJ.Ja~; caused, pE!rhaps 20 per cent, by overfishing on the Nose of the Banks. I say to the M .i n i s b:! r of F i s he r· i E! s that I t h ·i n k if Canada had control over the L24'7 June 1, 1989 Vol XU other 80 per· CE!nt -- I know there is no fence across, you just cannot say how many alne go-Lng to go in ovl'=~r the Nose or stay out . -··· of the fish that is out there, that we could have a real comeback in the fishery, I think the· fishery could again become viable.

There is one real cure as I set::~ it, and I am sure the Minister of Fisheries, whom I respect very, very much - MR. SPEAKER: Order, plE!ase! I wouJ.d ask thE! hon. gE!ntlE!lnan to take his place. Although he is not in contravention of any of the rules or regulations, it is the Speaker 1 s duty at thj .s po~l nt to i n d i c a t e t: h e t o p i c s f o r I~ h E' La h! Show. We have for t:hE! follows: received three questions Late Show which are as We have a question froiTI the ~wn. the Opposition House Leader, the member for Grand FaLls.

H:i.s question -Ls related to a qUE!stion asb:~d the MinistE!Y' of For·estr·y in connection with the aerial spray program for this year. The SE!cond question, raiSE!d by the member for Mount Pearl, has to do with his dissatisfaction with answers from the Minister of Energy related to negotiations with Quebec for the development of the l.otJ.Jer ChurchiJ 1, postponcnwnt or cancellation of a certain meeting with the Quebec Energy Minister, and ih•ms t.i('!d in tJ.r.ith the Island intertie. These are the topics that the member For Mount Pearl wants raised.

Lastly, the Opposition is an swer given No . 5 LE·ader of Lhc dissatisfi.ed with dn by ti'lE:! M:i.n ister oF R2lJ.'7

Municipal Affairs and the Premier to questions raise!d by him l"e the funding of various recreational facilities throughout the Province. The hon . the member for St. John's East Extern. MR. PARSONS: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. As I was saying, I think, and I direct this to the Minister of Fisheries, that we can say what we like about overfishing as far as the foreign trawlers are concerned, but our biggest problem is our own trawlers. I think it ts l:i.me, if we ar'E! to save the fishery, that somE!One has to bite thE! bullE!t, and the bul1et has to be bitten by the offshore draggers.

There has to be curtailment. I think, PEH"haps, thE!re might be a so1ution to it. If we looked at the underutilized species out there, I do not think the companies would make as much money, but at 1east it would be viable and it is better than other programs that we can come up v.lith. I think thE!Y are going to have to look at that, and I think the minister, and I am sure hE! is, is going to havr:~ to take a n'alJ.y sincere look at those underuti1ized species. -There is red fish out there and there is si1ver hake. I have ofi:E!n eat.E!n rE!d fi sh. [t is good.

There is tur·bot out: thE!re, and cel~tainly it. could suppleiTlE!nt the loss of cod for the draggers. Mr . SpE !aker, rE!ally and tTuly, WE! haup all had our heads bur··iC'd in thE! sa nd . In th E! rnJd st of this de lusi on, someone sugge sb:•d that we take soiTie oF the fish ft'om the tn shor· e aLlowanc E!. They are sa ying, 'If they cannot cat ch it, L248 June 1, 1989 Vol XLI someone (:~J.se should get it.' But, Mr. Speaker, how can thE!Y catch it whE!n it is not out ther·e to cornE! in? They cannot catch what is not there .

Now 1 a s t y ear , I bE! 1 i e v o , t hE! y caught, out of an allocation of 115,000 tons, about 108,000 or 110,000 tons, up from 70,000 tons a few years before that. But that can be explained by saying that there are bigger boats going further out and utilizing \:he areas of water that were never fished before by the inshore. To say that thc~y arE! goinr:3 to g.ivE• away solTIE! of thE! a] Jov.JancE! of Uw inshore, I think pretty well E!Veryone in this House wi11 agree that that is blarnE!Y. It cannot be done, and it should not be done. I am sure thE! MtnistE!r of Fisheries will not let that happen. No v.Jay!

Can - you imagine a fisherman in Twillingate, or in Fogo, or up the SouthE!rn Shol"e, or in Cuckolds CoVE! off herE!, or down in Blow ME• Down off of Torbay, or in the Black Gulch in Flatrock, or the White Rocks in Cape St. Francis, if someone came there and told them to take up their traps because they caught their quota? There would be fighting in the streets . Il can never happen. And that is what some of the people an• thinking about . That is what is beGn said, 'ThE! inshore fjshery, there is no place for it. We can make Jrlol~,,! rnoney offshore.' We are spE·ak:Lng about hundrE !ds of communities.

Every cornrnunity from onE! Cape L:o l:he other · ··- Fr·orn St. Mary's l:o CdpE! Chj .dley . Everyone has so1nE'! :Lnuo1u emenl jn the f-i shery. I pla c::! r:3r ::!al: emphasi s o n jt, bec au se 1ny No . 5 R 2 t~8

!1 ... ancestors fished. I fished myself. I have sons involvN! in the fishery today. Every day I visit, perhaps, eight: or nine communities, still pertaining to fish, i:'lnd I can see what is hap p e n i n g o u t the r e . It wi 11 be drastic. It will be something. No one can visualize or realize the extE!nt of it, if we do not do something about it.. I go back to what I previously said. Yesterday, some emphasis was plaCE!d on the Russians 1 by-catch. I think their by-catch in cod is about 0. 2 percc::mt of their total catch, which is very, very minimal to say the least.

I do nol: think that would decrE!aSe our stocks or· put: them in a danger zone, I really do not. Mr. Speaker, I do not know if all the answers can bE:~ given hE!r'E:~ in this House of Assembly. I am sure the Minister of Fisheries is going to look into all aspects of this dilemma, and perhaps with everyone putting their heads together, we might come up with a remedy. I do not think it is going to happen tomorrow, I do not think i.t can happE!n tornor·r·ow, but I still think there is a future in the fishery. We haVE! to makE! some adjustrnE!nts and we have to do things sensibly.

You know the days of 1 eVE!rything is out thE!re, catch it 1 are gone. It is not. out thE!re. It has been provc:•n .it is not out there. So I t h i n k t h E:' U ITI E! i s r :i g h t , t h E:~ t i me is now. I think \AlE! have to do SOITIE!thing about it, and we haVE! to do something rE!al about i l:. I know we do not have jur·isdJction OVE!r thE! fisheries, E!IJE!ryonE! knotAJS that, but. I think u.Je can put pressure on in the right areas. I think lAJE! can say lo Fishery Producl:s and to National Sea that thE! time has COifiE! for· r'E!st:r-aint.

I have Friends ouer here, L2'l-9 June l, 1989 Vol XLI colleagues of mine, who have plants on the Burin Peninsula, on the South Coast, and they are upset ouer· pr:.>ople br:dng laid ofF at certain times dur:i.ng the y~::~ar. But when you look at l:he inshor·e fishE!ry, that has beE!n going on sinCE! E~ternity. Th:.:!re is only a certain time of the year -they work, and that is all that is thE:~re for· them. MR. GILBERT: (Inaudible) bad investment . MR. PARSONS : I will get to works, in a time. ~3E!InViCIO~S moment. AN HON.

MEMBER: the MinoistET of and Tr·anspo1nt.al:.ion I have pJenty of (I n a u d i b.i. e ) -·t h e p a s t g o v e r n rn e n t . MR. PARSONS : You are not going to be . I would also likE! to issuE· a tJ.Jor·d of caution to the Premier. Although I did not. hE!ar him say it, I think he said \:hat tl·letnr::! aro too many fishermen and too few f-.ish. I do not think that is Lhe answer to it.. I hear·d that hon. gentletnan say for thE• last l:wo c:~nd a haJ.f year·s, ouer and OVE!r, that he wanted to increase the potential of empJ.oyment in Newfoundland.

And I do nol: l:h .ink that by eUE!n t·.h:.inking alon~1 tho~:~e lines you can do that. We can Jncrease the potential by, perhaps, secondary processing. You know, NE!WFoundland has l:akt·n a s l :i. de b a c k ward s . H :i s t. or j c a J 1 y and traditionally, everyone particpa ted in the fishery. I can remember when my father used to put out salmon nets in April. nnd you would catch fine big sal mon in May and up to the fir·~~t of June. ThE!I1 you would look folnlJ. Jdin d l:.o No. 5 R249

what they call the caplin salmon, which were very very small. All that has gone by the I>.Jayside. ThE!Y are not allowed to SE!t their nets now, I suppoSE! bE!cause of th£:~ economic situation. Looking at th(:~ monetary side of it, there is more money involved in the sports fishermen side of it. than in the cornrner·:ical side of it. But, at any rate, That has been taken away frorn our fishermE!n. How much more can they go along with, can · they abide with, can they live with, can they survive with?

To say that there are too FishE!InmE!n aftE!r too fE!W fish almost tell you that WE! are to create rnore unemployment. AN HON. MEMBER : Head for Toronto. MR. PARSONS: rnf.-!ny would going Head for Toronto, ·that "i s rea 11 y a and I do not think ourselves to it. Y£:~s. I think Mainland theme, we shouJ.d apply Again, the secondary processing thing: There is a lot of r·oom for that. It was suggesl:E!d to rne, and I say this for the Minister of Fisheries, that FPI and National Sea have consortiums in the States I think there is one on the other side of Boston.

I remE!mbE!r seeing it thE!rE! -- whE!re thE!Y use secondary processing to do the cod blocks that come out, or th1:!.ir mvn fish that comes out. I am suggesting to the minister that perhaps thE!re rnight be a u.Jc-~y that thE! cod block frnum the local plants could be utilized by National Sea or FPI. Really, I think what National Sea and FPI arE! do-ing -is looking for part of the inshore catch. I do not think therr:., is any doubt about it.

But what I arn sctyinc,-1 :is, if they want L250 JunE! 1, 1989 Vol XLI to supply their markets down in the States, is it possible for thr:.>rn, and I think it :is, to buy their product from the J.ocal plants, and send it down to the States or wherev(:~r they do tht:dr processing? I mean, they do quite a bit of it her·e in NE!WfoundJ.and now. So, if they are ·short of f is h and our own p 1 ants havE! t: he fish, I cannot see <~ny problem there. I do not see any roason why our people would not sell National Sea or FPI their fish.

I mean, her·(:~ we ar'E! cul:ti.n~J quotas, and here is the Federal government giving France extra fish from our· NorthE!r'n cod. Now no one J.:i kes it. EUE!ryone despisE! s it . 13 u t l: he f 61 c L i~ ~!rna ins that :it aJ.J slartE!d in 1972, when the government allowed France a quota. And it :.is therE! in bJ.ack and white. ThE!re ainE! no ifs, ands or buts about it. Let me just repeat what Keats said again: 1 The FrE!nch r'E!quest for a share in fish from the 2J+3KL hoJ.ds its ground under this agrneeiTIE!I1t. rhE:'Y halJE' a in iqht l:o request a quota in 2J-f·3KL. whethE!r' we like it or not.

It .is ther(:L 1 I suppose why they did not go after it before t.vas bec<.~use they were getting plenty of fish jn 3Ps. But now l:hat that has boon squanderE!d, dE•pleted, they have to look Furl:hE!r afield. And l:ht::! thing that fd .ghtens rne abou l: :1 t, is that ·il~ "is thE!rE!. I lllE!dn, i.F .[ WE!r'E! do:l.ng it, or' a Jot of Newfoundlanders, but t.V(• do not have the por.~.Jet~ to do :i.t, I tAJould tear up that old t1n1~aty.

I rnc:!an, l:hose pE!Ople have been t:l1r'Ot;.Jn ouL of Africa and thr:!y have b<:•r:•n thr·own out oF E~uerytAJherE~ e1se in the world, yes they are coming back here t.o Net.vfound1and s~~y:ing, 1 lrJe havE! a treaty. 1 This t.vas the one that was signed :in exchange No. S I~ 2 1j0

for the one of 1904 where, up until then, we did not have the right to live on the French shore. You know, big deal! Now they have the right to use the cod that is not out there. They have every right under this 1972 treaty. I know the federal government have to negotiate and look for jurisdiction from our point of view - we do not have the capabilities. When you let the French in there and they are to take X number· thousand tons, how do you know how much they are taking? You are not going to bE! therE! eVE!ryday. They say they have observers on certain boats, but there are ways and means.

Nine thousand tons could be 18,000 tons. I do not think there is any real way to control it. AN HON. MEMBER: Or 68,000 tons. MR. PARSONS: Or 68,000 tons, as you say. I do not think there is any way that can bE! controlled. We t~al k about surveillance. To have surveillance in the territorial water we have out there is non-sensical. I mean, there is no way we can do it. and there is no way Can~da can take on the EEC, either - there are 300 rnill .ion of thE!m and therE:' are 25 million of us. In a military way, I do not think it is there. Perhaps we could try H.

IcE!land did it, but I think Iceland was looked on as a l.Htle• small place and not at all in the context of the way that Newfoundland or Canada would be lookE!d on ··-· Canada as a country, Newfoundland as the one that is being affected. There does not seem to be any real way out of it.

But, again, P('!rhaps, therE! could have bec::•n tradE! agreE!IOents or tradE! r·educ t.i ons on our· part, L2Sl June l, 1989 Vo 1 XLI or whatever. and perhaps have forced their hand. know. that may I do not ThE! onJy plus we havE:~ as jt relates to the Canada/France agreement, as it pertains to 2J+3KL, is that tt only lasts for three years, while they are negotiating. After the three years. that wilJ. be non-existE!nl, we hope. But once they gE ! t their foot in the door, it is pretty hard to get them to take it out. Mr.

Speaker, the other thing is we alJ. talk about the pr·obhHns, and we talk about the seal fishery. I supposr::~ I a.rn unique in LhE: SE!n~;e i:hat I did - I arn not sur·e of anyone else_ .. pr 'osec ute t.ho sea1 fishE!ry. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. PARSONS : I went to the seal ftshery with some great Newfoundlanders and I arn proud to have been part of it . AN HON. MEMBER : You were up with Captain Kean, were you not? . MR. PARSONS : No, I tAJas not . One of the trips 1 made was with Captain Wilf Barter. His name is well known all across Newfoundland He is a great Newfoundlander.

I saiAJ t,o.Jhat. seals can do. We do not know hotJJ rnany sea1s at'E! out there. Senne peoplE! say they eat thirty pounds of fish a day. rhey do not on1y eat it, they destr·oy God only knows how rnuch by i:akinr::~ b:H~E·S OIJt. of the beJ.J.:i.E''S, Ot'· w h a t E! v E! r . WE! d o no l: k n o cu IAJ h a l: dest.ruct.jon is bPing caused by l:hc seals. No. 5 1\2 51

MR. DOYLE: They say one seal eats and destroys 1,500 pounds a day. MR. PARSONS: What potential is thet'e for seals out there? Again, looking at the parasites. We haul fish. That is part of the business. I rE!rnembE!r w