British Columbia Hansard — Wednesday, May 19, 2010

H0519pm-03

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session, 39th Parliament official rePort of Debates of the Legis Lative a ssemb Ly (hansarD) the honourable bill bari Soff, SPeaker iSSn 0709-1281 Wednesday, May 19, 2010 Afternoon Sitting Volume 18, Number 3

Pro Vince of britiS h colu Mbia (entered c onfederation July 20, 1871) lieutenant -Go Vernor h is h onour the h onourable Steven l. Point, obc Second Session, 39th Parliament SPeaker of the leGiS latiVe a SSeMbl Y h onourable bill barisoff eXecutiVe council Premier and President of the executive c ouncil ......................................................................................................h on.

Gordon c ampbell Minister of State for intergovernmental r elations ....................................................................................................h on. n aomi Y amamoto Deputy Premier and Minister of finance .......................................................................................................................... h on. c olin h ansen Minister of State for the o lympics and a ctn ow b.c. ....................................................................................................... h on.

Mary Mcn eil Minister of a boriginal r elations and r econciliation .....................................................................................................h on. George a bbott Minister of a dvanced e ducation and l abour Market Development ............................................................................ h on. Moira Stilwell Minister of a griculture and l ands ...................................................................................................................................h on.

Steve Thomson a ttorney General and Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General............................................................. h on. Michael de Jong, Qc Minister of c hildren and f amily Development and Minister r esponsible for c hild c are ............................................h on.

Mary Polak Minister of citizens' Services and Minister r esponsible for Multiculturalism and the Public a ffairs bureau ...........h on. ben Stewart Minister of c ommunity and r ural Development ................................................................................................................h on. bill bennett Minister of e ducation and Minister r esponsible for early l earning and l iteracy ......................................h on.

Margaret MacDiarmid Minister of energy, Mines and Petroleum r esources .....................................................................................................h on. blair l ekstrom Minister of State for Mining ................................................................................................................................................h on. r andy h awes Minister of environment .......................................................................................................................................................h on. barry Penner Minister of State for c limate a ction ...........................................................................................................................................h on.

John Y ap Minister of f orests and r ange and Minister r esponsible for the integrated l and Management bureau ........................... h on.

Pat bell Minister of h ealth Services ...................................................................................................................................................h on. k evin f alcon Minister of h ealthy l iving and Sport ...................................................................................................................................... h on. ida c hong Minister of h ousing and Social Development .................................................................................................................h on. r ich c oleman Minister of l abour ................................................................................................................................................................ h on.

Murray c oell Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ................................................................................................... h on.

Michael de Jong, Qc Minister of Small business, t echnology and e conomic Development ................................................................................ h on. iain black Minister of t ourism, c ulture and the a rts ...................................................................................................................... h on. k evin k rueger Minister of t ransportation and infrastructure ...................................................................................................................h on.

Shirley bond leGiS latiVe a SSeMbl Y l eader of the official o pposition ...................................................................................................................................................c arole James Deputy Speaker .................................................................................................................................................................................... l inda r eid a ssistant Deputy Speaker .............................................................................................................................................................c laire t revena Deputy c hair, c ommittee of the Whole .......................................................................................................................................... h arry bloy c lerk of the l egislative a ssembly...................................................................................................................e.

George MacMinn, obc, Q c c lerk a ssistant ..................................................................................................................................................................................r obert Vaive c lerk a ssistant and l aw c lerk................................................................................................................................................. ian D. izard, Qc c lerk a ssistant and c lerk of c ommittees ................................................................................................................................. craig h.

James c lerk a ssistant and c ommittee c lerk .................................................................................................................................... k ate r yan-l loyd Sergeant-at-a rms .................................................................................................................................................................................

Gary l enz Director, h ansard Services ............................................................................................................................................................Jo-a nne k ern a cting l egislative l ibrarian .......................................................................................................................................................... Peter Gourlay l egislative c omptroller ....................................................................................................................................................................... Dan a rbic

alP habetical liS t of MeMberS a bbott, h on. George (l) ........................................................................ Shuswap a ustin, r obin (nDP) ................................................................................ Skeena bains, h arry (nDP) ....................................................................Surrey-n ewton barisoff, h on. bill (l) ............................................................................Penticton barnett, Donna (l) ................................................................ c ariboo-c hilcotin bell, h on.

Pat (l) ..................................................... Prince George–Mackenzie bennett, h on. bill (l) ...................................................................k ootenay e ast black, Dawn (nDP) ................................................................n ew Westminster black, h on. iain (l) ..................................................... Port Moody–c oquitlam bloy, h arry (l) ......................................................................burnaby-l ougheed bond, h on.

Shirley (l) ...........................................Prince George–Valemount brar, Jagrup (nDP) ................................................................ Surrey-fleetwood c adieux, Stephanie (l) ...........................................................Surrey-Panorama c ampbell, h on. Gordon (l) .........................................Vancouver–Point Grey c antelon, r on (l) ..............................................................

Parksville-Qualicum c handra h erbert, Spencer (nDP) ................................Vancouver–West end c hong, h on. ida (l) ..................................................... o ak bay–Gordon h ead c houhan, r aj (nDP) ........................................................... burnaby-e dmonds c oell, h on.

Murray (l) ....................................Saanich n orth and the islands c oleman, h on. r ich (l) ........................................... f ort l angley–a ldergrove c onroy, katrine (nDP) .............................................................. k ootenay West c oons, Gary (nDP) .........................................................................n orth c oast c orrigan, k athy (nDP) ..................................................... burnaby–Deer l ake Dalton, Marc (l) .............................................................. Maple r idge–Mission de Jong, h on.

Michael, Qc (l) .............................................. a bbotsford West Dix, a drian (nDP) ............................................................Vancouver-kingsway Donaldson, Doug (nDP) ......................................................................... Stikine e lmore, Mable (nDP) ................................................... Vancouver-kensington f alcon, h on. k evin (l) ..........................................................Surrey-c loverdale f arnworth, Mike (nDP) ............................................................

Port c oquitlam fleming, r ob (nDP) .......................................................... Victoria–Swan l ake f oster, eric (l) .......................................................................Vernon-Monashee f raser, Scott (nDP) ............................................................a lberni–Pacific r im Gentner, Guy (nDP) .........................................................................Delta n orth h ammell, Sue (nDP) .................................................... Surrey–Green t imbers h ansen, h on. c olin (l) ..................................................

Vancouver-Quilchena h awes, h on. r andy (l) ..................................................... a bbotsford-Mission h ayer, Dave S. (l) .................................................................... Surrey-t ynehead h eed, k ash (l) ................................................................ Vancouver-fraserview h ogg, Gordon (l) ............................................................... Surrey–White r ock h organ, John (nDP) .......................................................................

Juan de f uca h orne, Douglas (l) ..............................................c oquitlam–b urke Mountain h oward, r ob (l) .....................................................................r ichmond c entre h untington, Vicki (ind.) ..................................................................Delta South James, c arole (nDP) .........................................................Victoria–b eacon h ill k aragianis, Maurine (nDP) ........................................e squimalt–r oyal r oads k rog, l eonard (nDP) ........................................................................... n anaimo k rueger, h on. k evin (l) ..................................... k amloops–South Thompson kwan, Jenny Wai ching (nDP) ...........................

Vancouver–Mount Pleasant l ake, t erry (l) .....................................................k amloops–n orth Thompson l ali, h arry (nDP) ..........................................................................f raser-n icola l ee, r ichard t . (l) .......................................................................burnaby n orth l ekstrom, h on. blair (l) .......................................................

Peace r iver South l es, John (l) .........................................................................................c hilliwack l etnick, n orm (l) ........................................................k elowna–l ake c ountry MacDiarmid, h on. Margaret (l) ..................................... Vancouver-fairview Macdonald, n orm (nDP) ....................................c olumbia r iver–r evelstoke Mcintyre, Joan (l) ..................................................West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Mcn eil, h on.

Mary (l) .................................................Vancouver–f alse creek Mcr ae, Don (l) ............................................................................. c omox Valley Mungall, Michelle (nDP) ..........................................................n elson-creston Penner, hon. barry (l) ............................................................c hilliwack-h ope Pimm, Pat (l) ..........................................................................Peace r iver n orth Polak, h on.

Mary (l) ...............................................................................l angley Popham, l ana (nDP) ...................................................................Saanich South r alston, bruce (nDP) ................................................................

Surrey-Whalley r eid, l inda (l) .............................................................................r ichmond e ast r outley, bill (nDP) .................................................................. c owichan Valley r outley, Doug (nDP) ............................................n anaimo–n orth c owichan r ustad, John (l) ........................................................................... n echako l akes Sather, Michael (nDP) ......................................... Maple r idge–Pitt Meadows Simons, n icholas (nDP) ...................................

Powell r iver–Sunshine c oast Simpson, bob (nDP) ...................................................................c ariboo n orth Simpson, Shane (nDP) .....................................................Vancouver-hastings Slater, John (l) ..............................................................boundary-Similkameen Stewart, h on. ben (l) ........................................................... Westside-kelowna Stilwell, h on. Moira (l) ...................................................... Vancouver-l angara Sultan, r alph (l) .....................................................

West Vancouver–capilano Thomson, hon. Steve (l) ........................................................k elowna-Mission Thorne, Diane (nDP) .................................................c oquitlam-Maillardville Thornthwaite, Jane (l) .......................................... n orth Vancouver–Seymour t revena, c laire (nDP) .................................................................... n orth island van Dongen, John (l) .............................................................a bbotsford South Y amamoto, hon. n aomi (l) ................................. n orth Vancouver–l onsdale Y ap, hon.

John (l) .............................................................r ichmond-Steveston liS t of MeMberS bY riD in G a bbotsford-Mission .............................................................h on. r andy h awes a bbotsford South .....................................................................John van Dongen a bbotsford West ......................................................h on. Michael de Jong, Qc a lberni–Pacific r im ..........................................................................

Scott f raser boundary-Similkameen .....................................................................John Slater burnaby–Deer l ake ................................................................... k athy c orrigan burnaby-e dmonds ......................................................................... r aj c houhan burnaby-l ougheed ............................................................................ h arry bloy burnaby n orth .............................................................................. r ichard t . l ee c ariboo-c hilcotin ........................................................................Donna barnett c ariboo n orth ................................................................................ bob Simpson c hilliwack ...............................................................................................

John l es c hilliwack-h ope ...................................................................h on. barry Penner c olumbia r iver–r evelstoke .................................................. n orm Macdonald c omox Valley.................................................................................... Don Mcr ae c oquitlam–b urke Mountain .....................................................Douglas h orne c oquitlam-Maillardville...............................................................

Diane Thorne c owichan Valley ................................................................................ bill r outley Delta n orth ......................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South ...............................................................................Vicki h untington e squimalt–r oyal r oads .....................................................Maurine k aragianis f ort l angley–a ldergrove ...................................................h on. r ich c oleman f raser-n icola........................................................................................ h arry l ali Juan de f uca .....................................................................................John h organ k amloops–n orth Thompson .............................................................t erry l ake k amloops–South Thompson ............................................ h on. k evin k rueger k elowna–l ake c ountry ...............................................................n orm l etnick k elowna-Mission .............................................................. h on.

Steve Thomson k ootenay e ast .......................................................................... h on. bill bennett k ootenay West ............................................................................ k atrine c onroy l angley.......................................................................................h on. Mary Polak Maple r idge–Mission .....................................................................

Marc Dalton Maple r idge–Pitt Meadows ........................................................Michael Sather n anaimo ......................................................................................... l eonard k rog n anaimo–n orth c owichan ......................................................... Doug r outley n echako l akes ..................................................................................

John r ustad n elson-creston ........................................................................Michelle Mungall n ew Westminster ..............................................................................Dawn black n orth c oast....................................................................................... Gary c oons n orth island .................................................................................. c laire t revena n orth Vancouver–l onsdale ........................................h on. n aomi Y amamoto n orth Vancouver–Seymour .................................................

Jane Thornthwaite o ak bay–Gordon h ead ............................................................ h on. ida c hong Parksville-Qualicum ..................................................................... r on c antelon Peace r iver n orth ................................................................................Pat Pimm Peace r iver South ...............................................................h on. blair l ekstrom Penticton................................................................................... h on. bill barisoff Port c oquitlam ..........................................................................Mike f arnworth Port Moody–c oquitlam .............................................................h on. iain black Powell r iver–Sunshine c oast ................................................. n icholas Simons Prince George–Mackenzie .............................................................h on.

Pat bell Prince George–Valemount ...................................................h on. Shirley bond r ichmond c entre ............................................................................ r ob h oward r ichmond e ast ................................................................................... l inda r eid r ichmond-Steveston .................................................................... h on. John Y ap Saanich n orth and the islands ........................................... h on.

Murray c oell Saanich South ................................................................................ l ana Popham Shuswap ...............................................................................h on.

George a bbott Skeena .............................................................................................. r obin a ustin Stikine ........................................................................................Doug Donaldson Surrey-c loverdale .................................................................h on. k evin f alcon Surrey-fleetwood ...............................................................................Jagrup brar Surrey–Green t imbers ..................................................................Sue h ammell Surrey-n ewton ................................................................................. h arry b ains Surrey-Panorama ..................................................................Stephanie c adieux Surrey-t ynehead ...........................................................................

Dave S. h ayer Surrey-Whalley.............................................................................. bruce r alston Surrey–White r ock ....................................................................... Gordon h ogg Vancouver-fairview ............................................. h on. Margaret MacDiarmid Vancouver–f alse creek ........................................................ h on.

Mary Mcn eil Vancouver-fraserview ........................................................................k ash h eed Vancouver-hastings ....................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-kensington .................................................................Mable e lmore Vancouver-kingsway..........................................................................a drian Dix Vancouver-l angara ............................................................. h on.

Moira Stilwell Vancouver–Mount Pleasant ..........................................Jenny Wai ching kwan Vancouver–Point Grey .................................................h on.

Gordon c ampbell Vancouver-Quilchena ..........................................................h on. c olin h ansen Vancouver–West end ...............................................Spencer c handra h erbert Vernon-Monashee ...............................................................................eric f oster Victoria–b eacon h ill .......................................................................c arole James Victoria–Swan l ake.........................................................................r ob fleming West Vancouver–capilano ............................................................. r alph Sultan West Vancouver–Sea to Sky ........................................................

Joan Mcintyre Westside-kelowna ...................................................................h on. ben Stewart Party Standings: l iberal 49; n ew Democratic 35; independent 1

CONTENTS Wednesday, May 19, 2010 a fternoon Sitting Page Routine Business introductions by Members ..................................................................................................................................................... 5539 introduction and first r eading of bills ................................................................................................................................ 5539 bill M204 — c ampaign finance r eform a ct, 2010 c.

James bill M205 — first n ations h eritage Protection and c onservation a ct, 2010 M. k aragianis Statements (Standing order 25b) ......................................................................................................................................... 5540 c ancer prevention and treatment n. l etnick 100th anniversary of George Jay elementary School r . flemin g r odeo and k enny Mcl ean J. Slater l yme disease awareness l.

Popha m t rade e xport a wards and international trade dinner in Surrey D. h ayer t enth anniversary of n isga’a treaty r . a ustin oral Questions ......................................................................................................................................................................... 5543 e quipment and assistive technology initiative for people with disabilities c. James h on. r . c oleman S. Simpson b. r alston c onservation officer service in bella c oola area G. c oons h on. b. Penner Marmot recovery program and species-at-risk legislation r . flemin g h on. b.

Penner Silviculture activities n. Macdonald h on. P . bell b. Simpson Summer school spaces r . a ustin h on. M. MacDiarmid Petitions .................................................................................................................................................................................... 5548 V . huntington M.

Sather Orders of the Day c ommittee of the Whole h ouse ............................................................................................................................................ 5548 bill 13 — f orests and r ange (first n ations Woodland l icence) Statutes a mendment a ct, 2010 (continued) b. Simpson h on. P . bell

r eport and Third r eading of bills ......................................................................................................................................... 5561 bill 13 — f orests and r ange (first n ations Woodland l icence) Statutes a mendment a ct, 2010 c ommittee of the Whole h ouse ............................................................................................................................................ 5561 bill 15 — Protected a reas of british c olumbia a mendment a ct, 2010 M. f arnworth M. Sather h on. b. Penner n. Macdonald D.

Donaldson r eport and Third r eading of bills ......................................................................................................................................... 5573 bill 15 — Protected a reas of british c olumbia a mendment a ct, 2010 Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room c ommittee of Supply .............................................................................................................................................................. 5573 e stimates: Ministry of energy, Mines and Petroleum r esources h on. b. l ekstrom J. h organ k. c orrigan S. c handra h erbert b. r alston

5539 WeD neSD a Y , MaY 19, 2010 The h ouse met at 1:34 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Routine Business Prayers. [1335] Introductions by Members L. Popham: i have some very special guests to intro- duce today. first of all, i would like to welcome back into the h ouse former Mla of Saanich South, David c ubberley. i also have n icole bottles here with us to- day.

She is an 18-year-old constituent of mine who is suffering with l yme disease. n icole is joined by her mother, c hris Powell. i also have Daya Moss, who is do- ing her social work practicum in my constituency office. i would like to make all of them feel very welcome. R. Lee: Visiting in the h ouse today is the h oly cross e lementary School, from my riding of burnaby n orth, led by two teachers, Ms. Sabina Mcc loskey and Ms. l ianna r anallo, with 25 grade 5 students and 15 adults. Would the h ouse please join me to give them the warm- est welcome. M.

Karagianis: i'm very pleased today to have a num- ber of guests here in the gallery. i would like to introduce to the h ouse from the t seycum n ation, c hief Jacks and coun. Joe bill; and from the t sartlip, William Morris. i also know that expected shortly is r on Sam from the Songhees n ation and from the e squimalt n ation, c heryl bryce. i'm not sure if she's here in the gallery yet, but i would like to give all of these guests a very warm welcome. R. Austin: i have two sets of introductions to make today, so if you'll bear with me.

The first is a group of adult learners who have driven 20 hours in a bus from k incolith, or Gingolx, at the mouth of the n ass r iver. They came here this morning. it's their first time in Victoria. They came and actually toured the chamber here. They were very thrilled to be here. but don't worry, hon. Speaker, they didn't sit in your chair. They are a manda Smythe, c hasity Stevens, Darcie Peters, Donna n elson, emerald azak, Julia Stevens, k ayla barton, Sam Peal, Shanna n elson, Sylvia Stewart, t essa Venn, t yler Stevens and Dion barton.

They are joined by their instructors k athy Mueller and Don Stevenson as well as k athy's husband, erich Mueller, as well as the education administrator for the community of k incolith, n eal barton. Would the h ouse please join me in making them feel welcome. Secondly, i have a couple of visitors visiting from the u nited k ingdom. They are Dr. Graham l omas and t ova l amb. They are here visiting some friends and family. They've been to Victoria before but never to the l egislature, so please give them a warm Victoria welcome. E.

Foster: in the h ouse today we have a very good friend of mine visiting from l umby, Mr. John r ingness. John is one of those people you value in your community. h e's past president of the l ions c lub. h e led the cancer cause in l umby over the last number of years, raising money for that worthwhile organization. John and his wife Wanda will be celebrating their 50th wedding an- niversary in two weeks. John, welcome to the h ouse. M. Elmore: in the h ouse visiting today are a number of students from St. a ndrews School. They are grade 5 students — 60 of them with five adults.

They are accom- panied by their very dedicated teacher, Ms. Monica l ow. i'd like to ask the l egislature and everyone here to please give them a very warm welcome. Hon. I. Black: There are some great high schools in the t ri-cities area, and one of them is going to be visiting the precinct later this afternoon. They are the students of Port Moody Secondary School, accompan- ied by their teacher-supervisor, Mr. t roy c unningham, and five parents who were good enough to give a little time to help students experience what it is we do around here a little bit. i would ask the h ouse to make them feel welcome. S.

Fraser: i have two introductions to make to- day. i don't know if they're in the audience already, but there's a group from my constituency, a lberni– Pacific r im, called the c orcan-Meadowood r esidents a ssociation. They are here this afternoon to, hopefully, see question period and also to visit with the Minister of t ransportation. i'd like the h ouse to make them feel very welcome, please. [1340] i know the member for Skeena made the larger intro- duction, but Don Stevenson is from Port a lberni. h e's a good friend of mine. Please, again, make him feel very welcome.

Introduction and First Reading of Bills bill M204 — caMP ai Gn finance reforM a ct, 2010 c. James presented a bill intituled c ampaign finance r eform a ct, 2010.

british c olumbia Debates5540 Wednesday, May 19, 2010 C. James: i move that the bill intituled c ampaign finance r eform a ct, 2010, be introduced and read a first time now. Motion approved. C. James: i'm pleased to introduce the c ampaign f inance r eform a ct, one of several bills introduced by the official opposition to renew b.c .'s democratic system. The time has come in british c olumbia to review the fi- nancing of political parties, to examine the public interest in terms of how we fund elections and to move towards greater citizen involvement in our political process.

We have the opportunity to revitalize our democracy in british c olumbia, to make b.c. a leader in demo- cratic reform, to rebuild public faith in our institutions of government. While other provinces and the federal government have passed strict guidelines regarding the role of big money in politics, b.c. has moved in the opposite direction. it's time to restore balance to our political system. This bill levels the playing field for political and campaign financing. u nder this bill individual british c olumbians will contribute to political parties. institutions will not.

This bill also allows a review of b.c. campaign financing by the c hief e lectoral officer, in- cluding recommendations for further reform.

The opposition has put forward similar legislation in the past. h owever, given recent events, it seemed timely to reintroduce it. it is my hope that government will finally take action to reform campaign financing and put citizens back at the centre of our democratic system. i move that the bill be placed on the order paper for second reading at the next sitting of the h ouse after today. bill M204, c ampaign finance r eform a ct, 2010, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sit- ting of the h ouse after today. bill M205 — f ir St n ation S herita Ge Protection anD c onS er Vation a ct, 2010 M. k aragianis presented a bill intituled first n ations h eritage Protection and c onservation a ct, 2010.

M. Karagianis: i move introduction of the first n ations h eritage Protection and c onservation a ct, 2010, for first reading. Motion approved. M. Karagianis: i am honoured today to present the first n ations h eritage Protection and c onservation a ct. This bill will better protect first n ations heritage objects, sacred areas, gravesites and burial grounds.

The bill amends the h eritage c onservation a ct to in- clude a process by which first n ations can trigger real protective measures when heritage sites, burial areas, objects or remains are discovered. i believe that the bill amends the heritage act to provide a better set of guide- lines and tools for first n ations, local government, the public and the province in order to implement protec- tion, stewardship and conservation of first n ations heritage and culturally significant areas, their artifacts and their sacred history. i am particularly honoured today to do this with my guests in the h ouse who have all worked very hard to protect their own sacred sites and burial grounds. i would ask that all members please review the bill, and i hope that they will support it. i move that this bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the h ouse after today. bill M205, first n ations h eritage Protection and c onservation a ct, 2010, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the h ouse after today.

Statements (Standing Order 25B) cancer Pre Vention anD treat Ment N. Letnick: With approximately one in three british c olumbians developing some form of cancer in their lifetime, it is very likely that everyone in this chamber and across our province knows the devastating impact that those three words, "Y ou've got cancer," can have on individuals and families.

When my wife h elene and i first heard those words a few years back — "Y ou've got uterine cancer" — we took comfort in the knowledge that we lived in a prov- ince with outstanding cancer health outcomes made possible by health professionals who care and a health system that is one of the best in the world, even with its challenges.

The support received from health care providers in the southern interior was phenomenal. h aving gone through that experience, it is easy to see why b.c. women have the lowest overall mortality rate for cancer and the lowest incidence of mortality rates of any province for breast and colorectal cancer. b.c. men also have the lowest overall mortality rate for all cancer. We are tied with Quebec for the lowest rates of any province for lung, colorectal and prostate cancer. incidence rates for all cancers combined are lower in b.c. than in any other province. [1345]

british c olumbia DebatesWednesday, May 19, 2010 5541 a ccording to the cancer advocacy council, b.c. has the best-funded and most timely access to cancer drugs in c anada. We are investing in the fight against cancer by providing a comprehensive screening mammography program, free for all b.c. women aged 40 to 79.

We have cancer centres throughout the province, with construc- tion underway for a new b.c. c ancer a gency centre for the north in Prince George, as part of a strategy to en- sure that northern british c olumbians receive the best possible cancer care. a ccording to the c anadian c ancer Society's 2010 cancer statistics report released today, b.c. continues to lead c anada in having the lowest rates of cancer.

This is a record that british c olumbians can be proud of, and you can be certain we will continue to lead the country in cancer prevention and treatment. 100th anniVerSar Y of Geor Ge Ja Y eleMentar Y School R. Fleming: e arlier this month a significant anniver - sary in Victoria was celebrated that thousands of people here felt personally connected to. it was an anniversary celebrating a century of excellence in teaching and learn- ing in my community.

George Jay turned 100 years old this year, and on May 1 students and former students of all ages turned out to mark the occasion. i even met a woman who was there from the class of 1925.

George Jay officially opened on December 9, 1910, built on the rural fields of a dairy farm. t oday school dis- trict 61 refers to this fine building as an inner-city school in the heart of the f ernwood neighbourhood. c hanges to the School a ct expanding compulsory education for children between seven and 14 necessitated the building of George Jay. in the late 1960s George Jay was actually british c olumbia's largest elementary school, with over 1,200 students. a s working-class and immigrant children gained greater access to education, the growing student popula- tion required several additions to the school, beginning with a two-room annex added in 1919 and a wing of two floors of classrooms added in 1972, which was the same year that the school, for its first time, had a gym- nasium. h istorian and Times Colonist writer Dave o bee noted in a recent

article that George Jay kids had two things to celebrate in the early 1970s: their new gym and the barrett government and Minister eileen Dailly out- lawing the strap in b.c. schools. The school was named after an ardent supporter of public education, a magistrate, George Jay, who served on the school board for 35 years, serving as board chair for 28 years. The first principal of the school was Mr. h.b .

Macl ean, who later became the infamous, and quite wealthy, proprietor and promoter of the Macl ean method of handwriting and penmanship. a s a school, George Jay has changed with the times. it continues to be a bright light in my community, pro- viding children with a nurturing, uniquely diverse and respectful learning environment. i've had the pleasure to visit the school on a number of occasions, and i've seen firsthand the creative and interactive ways the teachers engage their students. May the h ouse join me in cele- brating a hundred years for George Jay. ro Deo anD kennY M clean J.

Slater: May is the time when cowboys polish their spurs, brush the dust off their chaps, load up their horse and head for their first, favourite rodeo. in the boundary-Similkameen and surrounding areas, where there are several longtime, traditional rodeos — such as the Princeton r odeo, which was held this past weekend, and the upcoming k eremeos r odeo, being held on the May long weekend — rodeos traditionally give the cow- boy and his horse the opportunity to compete against their neighbour for the coveted blue ribbon. on Saturday, May 8, i had the honour, along with my colleague the Minister of t ourism, c ulture and the a rts, of attending the unveiling of a life-sized bronze sculp- ture of the late k enny Mcl ean.

This sculpture will grace c entennial Park in o kanagan f alls for the rest of time to honour this local legend. k enny Mcl ean was well known for his life as a rodeo rider who went from r ookie of the Y ear in 1961 to c anadian all-round champion and the P rca Saddle bronc World c hampion. h e also won 14 c anadian championships. h e was inducted into the c anadian r odeo c owboy h all of f ame. h e's the only cowboy to ever receive the order of c anada and the only cowboy to be inducted into the b.c. Sports h all of f ame.

The ceremony followed the cowboy tradition of hav- ing bales of hay to sit on, along with country music and a roping demonstration. The only things missing were the cattle. organizers of this great event were bill Schwarz and his dedicated committee, and they should be con- gratulated for initiating this and raising thousands of dollars to honour one of their own, kenny Mcl ean. [1350] l YMe DiSea Se a WareneSS L.

Popham: May is l yme Disease a wareness Month. l yme disease is n orth a merica's fastest-rising infec- tious disease. it's utterly debilitating if not detected and treated quickly with antibiotics, which rarely happens in british c olumbia. People get l yme disease from ticks. t icks are sneaky. They anaesthetize their bites so they can feed in peace. Western black-legged ticks abound here, and up to 10 percent now carry l yme in endemic areas like the l ower Mainland, fraser Valley and southern Vancouver island.

british c olumbia Debates5542 Wednesday, May 19, 2010 May is awareness month because it starts a fresh tick season, the time when nymphal ticks, no larger than a speck of pepper, lurk on the tips of long spring grasses, waiting for a blood meal to pass by. r isk of infection can be greatly reduced if we know what precautions to take and what places and actions to avoid, like playing in tall grass while wearing shorts. being l yme-aware is vital for children in suburban schools next to wooded areas frequented by deer.

There are many such schools in b.c. t oday our public health officials are silent on the ris- ing risk of l yme disease. h owever, there are signs that our local schools are taking the risks to children more seriously. a t r ogers e lementary in Saanich South, the May newsletter has a tick alert that's informative, non- alarmist and tells parents what to avoid, what to look for and what to do if a tick is discovered.

That's prevention as it should be practised. it inspires me today, in l yme Disease a wareness Month, to urge our public health agencies to get serious about reducing public exposure to this preventable, de- bilitating and largely untreated illness. traD e eXPort a WarDS anD international traD e Dinner in Surre Y D.

Hayer: international trade and the powerful export market will drive the future economy of this province. t oday i'd like to talk about recognition of this vibrant part of our province's business. l ast Thursday i attended, with the members for Surrey-Panorama and Surrey-Whalley, the fourth annual international t rade and Surrey export a wards dinner, presented by the Surrey board of t rade and sponsored by export Development c anada, Meyers n orris Penny and rbc financial Group. h eld at the Sheraton Guilford h otel in my riding of Surrey-t ynehead, this awards ceremony recognized six leading companies who specialize in international trade and exports.

Garaventa c anada l td. was the award winner. o ther nominees were: 4 r efuel l td., Softac Systems l td., l abtest c ertification inc., roe l ogistics inc. and Stantech.

This evening began with an international trade show, followed by formal ceremonies emceed by Dawn c hubai of citytv. in addition to the presentation by the event spon- sor, the packed ballroom also heard from t atyana Domilovskaya, representing r ussia and regional direc- tor of the c anada-eurasia r ussian business a ssociation; a ndre n udelman, representing brazil, chairman of the c anadian c ouncil of the a mericas; and the consul gen- eral of brazil, a mbassador f ernando Jacques.

We also heard from Mukesh Gupta, representing india and director of strategic relations for the t ata Group, one of the world's largest companies — he noted that the company's founder, Jamsetji t ata, visited Vancouver in 1903 from india — and the keynote speaker, our own Minister of Small business, t echnology and e conomic Development. i ask all the members of the h ouse to congratulate the Surrey board of t rade for the fourth annual recognition of international trade leaders, businesses — all those outstanding speakers, volunteers, sponsors, staff mem- bers who made the evening such a success. tenth anniVerSar Y of niSGa ’a treat Y R.

Austin: Simgigat, Sigidimhaanak, K'uba Wilksihlkw — these words, when translated from n isga'a, mean chiefs, matriarchs, community members and are the usual respectful way in which the n isga'a address people on ceremonial occasions. l ast week on May 11 these words were used many times as dignitaries from all over b.c. joined the n isga'a nation in their capital, n ew a iyansh, to celebrate the tenth anniversary of the n isga'a treaty. i was privileged to witness that celebration along with the Minister of a boriginal r elations and my colleagues from the n orth c oast and Powell r iver–Sunshine c oast.

The starring guest was the l ieutenant-Governor of b.c., h is h onour Steven Point, who congratulated the n isga'a nation for the success of the last ten years since the treaty was signed. [1355] So much has changed in the last ten years, from the public deliberations of this, the first modern-day treaty in over a hundred years that brought settlement to over 300 years of subjugation under a colonial regime, to a time when we now have a f irst n ations person as the Queen's representative, the highest office in the province.

The irony was not lost on all those who were in attend- ance. instead of fearing the inclusion of first n ations as equal citizens of this province, instead of thinking that self-determination for aboriginal people meant another level of government that was not constitutional, the n isga'a treaty has demonstrated that reconciliation is possible.

We can all live together in this province and share resources and decision-making in a way that encour - ages inclusion and that finally permits first n ations to improve their social and economic conditions while celebrating the diversity of their cultures in the same way that all new immigrants from all over the world have done once arriving in this great province.

The new president of the n isga'a n ation, Mitchell Stevens, did not gloss over the challenges that the n isga'a still face. it is early days, and there is much catching up to do for the n isga'a. but the treaty has given a sense of hope for his people and a sense of pride in being n isga'a. When people feel pride and regain their confidence, all things are possible.

british c olumbia DebatesWednesday, May 19, 2010 5543 a s the n isga'a have a very young population, let us all hope that the future is bright as increased education and economic opportunities renew their communities. i ask all members of this h ouse to join me in congratulating the many n isga'a leaders for pursuing their dream for 113 years. Oral Questions e Qui PMent an D a SSiSti Ve technolo GY initiatiVe for Peo Ple With DiSabilitieS C.

James: t wo months ago the b.c. l iberals made a $25 million cut to nutrition supplements, medical supplies and shelter allowances for people with disabil- ities and on income assistance. n ow we've learned that they've cut funding for employment programs for the disabled. The equipment and assistive technology in- itiative gives people with disabilities the opportunity to work and to volunteer in their communities. it provides wheelchairs, hearing and vision aids, computer access, enhancements and other equipment.

The government committed to providing $16 mil- lion over four years, and now they've broken their word. They've slashed the funding by 60 percent without no- tice and without any consultation. My question is to the Minister of h ousing and Social Development. h ow can he and his government possibly justify these cuts? Mr. Speaker: Minister of h ousing. Hon. R. Coleman: Thank you, Madam…. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. i'm sure i will pay for that for some time to come. Mr. Speaker: Y ou will. [laughter.] Hon. R. Coleman: The member should do a little bit more research.

What we've done this year is we are funding to the level that was last year's uptake with re- gards to the program. The money is also located within government should there be an increase in uptake this year. The funds would be available to fund additional services if required. Mr. Speaker: l eader of the o pposition has a supplemental. C. James: When i listen to the minister, i have to say i'll trust the organization before i trust this minister and this government on any funding cuts that have come.

This community worked with the government to cre- ate this opportunity for people with disabilities to assist people who wanted to work, who wanted to volunteer and who needed some equipment to be able to do so. The government promised them the funding. They committed to that funding, and now seven months after that promise, they broke their word. This organization is losing $10 million over four years. My question again is to the minister. Why is he breaking trust with the com- munity groups and people with disabilities? Hon. R. Coleman: What i stated is correct.

There was $4 million in the program annually that is notionally al- located. but as we allocate our budget this year for the actual delivery of the program, we based it on last year's usage. That's where we're at. We are in a position, if our usage goes up, to be able to accommodate it within our budget for additional services for disabled people within this program. Mr. Speaker: l eader of the o pposition has a further supplemental. C.

James: it's no wonder the community groups are frustrated when they get that kind of answer from this minister and this government. it's no surprise. [1400] The groups weren't told that the money was notionally allocated. The group was given the money by the govern- ment. The group received the money. The b.c . personal supports network, the organization that coordinates this initiative, is facing a $2.5 million cut this year. This isn't a notional cut. This is a cut the organization is facing. The funding will run out in less than two months. That means… interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. C.

James: …people with disabilities who want to work, who want to go out to the community, who need assistance to be able to do that will go without. a gain my question is to the minister. Will he admit today that his cuts are creating barriers to employment for people with disabilities? Hon. R. Coleman: i'll repeat it for the member. There's $1.5 million for equipment and assisted technol- ogies in the 2010-11 budget, because that was basically what was used last year.

There still remains another $21 million in the budget to be available for people in pro- grams for people with disabilities. a s we've always done with people with disabilities, we work with them. We've been in contact with this community. They understand what we're trying to ac- complish. if there is a need for more, there'll be more. Sorry, Member. if you don't like it, it's too bad. What you guys never had was a plan for people with disabilities at all in the province of british c olumbia.

british c olumbia Debates5544 Wednesday, May 19, 2010 We are the ones that invested. We're the ones that have invested more money in job creation for people with disabilities, technology for people with disabilities. c ommunication devices are still funded for people with disabilities. a ll you ever do is look at the sky and pretend it's fall- ing and refuse to understand. We fund the usage rather than just putting money in a pot. We actually have a business plan with regards to people with disabilities, and we're delivering on it, hon. Members. S.

Simpson: This funding goes directly to individ- uals. it allows them to purchase the equipment and the aids that will improve their lives. it goes for wheelchairs, visual and hearing aids, computer enhancements and more. Y et less than two months after british c olumbians cheered on the Paralympics, this government and this minister are prepared to hurt the ability of people to move, to speak, to see and hear and access information. That's what this minister's doing. These organizations. The network has said they will run out of money in July 2010.

Will this minister com- mit the $4 million a year to that equipment today? Hon. R. Coleman: That's, of course, regardless of how much the usage would be. Y ou just want to spend the $4 million. So $1.5 million is what the usage was last year. We're seeing a slight uptick in the usage this year. We have the funds to take care of it this year. That's how we're going to do it. We're going to pay for the services to 135 clients and any more that come on, if needed, be- cause that's how this program should be run. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. S.

Simpson: The way this program should be run is to meet the needs of the disabled, not to make excuses for an incompetent minister. This group was told in May, six months after the money, after they thought they had a deal, that they didn't have a deal. So $4 million is gone. a million and a half is on the table. That's what they were told by this minister's officials — no consultation, no discussion, just a 60 percent cut. My question to the minister again: how does this min- ister justify turning his back on the disabled, turning his back on vulnerable british c olumbians, when he claims to care? What a sham.

Hon. R. Coleman: Y ou wouldn't know. Y ou've never seen somebody in iron lung at G.f . Strong. When i worked with the k insmen r ehabilitation f oundation…. Mr. Speaker: Through the c hair, please, Minister. Hon. R. Coleman: t o the member opposite — through you, Mr. Speaker: for you to even think for one second that i don't have the interests of disabled people at risk…. Y ou're wrong. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. R. Coleman: The only thing phony over there is the member opposite asking the question. interjections. [1405] Mr. Speaker: Members. Minister, take your seat. interjections. Mr.

Speaker: Members. c ontinue, Minister. Hon. R. Coleman: i was actually personally involved in projects for quadriplegics and ventilated quadriplegics long before i entered politics. f or the member opposite to take a shot like that at me i found somewhat offensive, and i apologize for going back at him that way. i'll tell you what, Mr. Speaker. We will deliver the ser- vices as are needed for the individuals on the basis that they're needed. That's all we're doing here. We're funding according to the previous usage, and if there's an increase in requirements for more usage, we will fund that. B.

Ralston: it might be helpful to hear what c hristine Gordon, who is the chair of the b.c. personal supports network, had to say in a letter to the assistant deputy minister of the minister's employment and labour mar - ket services division. "This fiscal year is our startup year for the networked approach, and like any startup, it has posed a number of implementational challenges to everyone involved. We have successfully met all of these challenges, and the program became fully operational in n ovember 2009.

"This has meant that the expected 12 months of disbursements for equipment and assistive technology have been shrunk to five months, and consequently, the yearly budget is in surplus. it has been our expectation, given the agreement-in-principle, that this surplus would be carried over into the next fiscal year." c learly, the minister is not exactly expressing the full picture here. This organization had some understand- able startup challenges.

The numbers that the minister speaks of are confidently expected to expand in the next year, yet the budget has been shrunk. c an the minister explain why he's doing that, contrary to what c hristine Gordon's expectation reasonably was? Hon. R. Coleman: i'm familiar with the letter, and my staff are working with this organization to explain what the member has asked. i can tell the member opposite

british c olumbia DebatesWednesday, May 19, 2010 5545 right now on this particular thing that there are about 135 people that receive technical assistance for disabil- ities that allows them to get back into the workforce. We've said to the organization and i've said to my staff, because we've looked at our budget, that if there's an in- crease this year in the uptake of that, we will fund that. but we've based — prudently, i think — our fiscal ex- pectations on what the uptake is to date. We will work through that with the organization.

We've already indi- cated that. i'm indicating that to the members opposite, and we know that we have the ability to do that if there are more people requiring the assistance in the future. conS er Vation officer Ser Vice in bella coola area G. Coons: f or the last two years the bella c oola Valley has been without a conservation officer. The near- est conservation officer is posted in Williams l ake more than 450 kilometres away along h ighway 20, along the infamous hill. My question is to the environment Minister. The community of h ope is in his constituency. it's closer to Williams l ake than bella c oola is.

Does he really think it's reasonable for a conservation officer to offer reason- able services across that wide of an area? Hon. B. Penner: We've had a chance to discuss this matter during my ministry's budget estimates.

We cov- ered this at some length. it is a challenge across the province of british c olumbia to manage our wildlife, but we have good news to report when it comes to managing human-bear conflicts. o ver the last number of years we've seen a decreasing trend of human-bear conflicts across the province, and that's a tribute not just to the work of the conservation offi- cer service but to communities that are working with us through a program known as bear a ware and bear Smart. it takes a collaborative approach to reduce the incidence of human-bear conflicts, and we're seeing success. Mr.

Speaker: The member has a supplemental. [1410] G. Coons: besides the minister decimating the conservation service, he quoted in estimates: "…a con- servation officer assigned to patrol the area but based in Williams l ake, so regular patrols will be scheduled." Some 450 kilometres apart — regular patrols. a ll the people want in bella c oola is for this minister to do his job. The frequency of controlled kills in the bella c oola valley is an embarrassment.

This threatens their burgeoning bear-viewing industry. h ere's a quote from a wildlife photographer: "i have no intention of visiting the bella c oola Valley again, and neither do any of my photographer friends, until this is resolved." a gain, my question is to the environment minis- ter. Will he help protect grizzly bears and the tourism industry that depends on them at least by posting a con- servation officer position in the bella c oola Valley? Hon. B. Penner: a s i noted, we are seeing signifi- cant progress in reducing the number of human-bear conflicts.

We're doing that in partnership with local communities by educating the public about how they can reduce the number of attractants that they leave out- side their property that unfortunately bring bears into town and near the residences. u ltimately, we all know that a fed bear becomes a dead bear. in the last three years of our government, the num- ber of problem bears that have had to be put down has dropped by half compared to the last three years of the nDP government. MarM ot reco Ver Y Pro GraM anD SP ecieS-at -riS k leGiS lation R.

Fleming: The Minister of environment personally intervened in the fate of a yellow-bellied marmot at the empress h otel this week. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. t ake your seat for a second, Member. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. c ontinue, Member. R. Fleming: h e said in quite strong terms that this individual marmot from the interior could put local Vancouver island marmots at risk, but his government has not confirmed funding for the marmot recovery program for Vancouver island marmots, which are still among c anada's most endangered mammals.

My question to the minister is this. if he's truly con- cerned about the precarious state of Vancouver island marmots, why won't he commit to fully fund the breed- ing program and Marmot r ecovery f oundation? Hon. B. Penner: one of my colleagues wondered if the member wrote the question himself or cut and pasted it from a website. but i think what's important to note is that we are seeing significant progress in the recovery of the Vancouver island marmot.

Shortly after our gov- ernment took office, the population of Vancouver island marmots in the wild was less than 30. t oday that num- ber exceeds 250. t o help the member with his math, that represents an 800 percent increase in about the last eight years.

british c olumbia Debates5546 Wednesday, May 19, 2010 There's more work to be done. We are partnering with that foundation and will continue to do so. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. The member has a supplemental. R. Fleming: i think it's very fortunate that the mar - mot in question was not between the minister and the camera when he went to the empress on the weekend. by all accounts, he's in good shape. but the minister…. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. c ontinue, Member. [1415] R.

Fleming: The minister knows that part of what will help Vancouver island marmots to have a sustainable fu- ture over the long term is the protection of their habitat. british c olumbia remains one of the only provinces in c anada without species-at-risk legislation. This govern- ment promised to convene a task force to examine the issue. They promised to report back to the h ouse by the end of June, but the task force hasn't even been named yet and has therefore been unable to meet. My question is to the minister.

Why doesn't he get to work introducing species-at-risk legislation that pro- tects critical habitat of endangered species in british c olumbia? Hon. B. Penner: Just yesterday, the h ouse passed second reading of a bill that expands b.c.'s protected areas network even more — to be the largest in c anada — so that by the time this bill is passed, which i expect it to be shortly, more than 14.25 percent of b.c.'s total land base will be protected. That's called habitat protection, and i think it's one reason why you're seeing recovery for the Vancouver island marmot. We are working with that foundation.

There are many good people contributing in voluntary donations and time and effort, but the province of british c olumbia has also invested hundreds of thousands of dollars over the last few years, and we're going to continue to work with that organization to do the good work of recover - ing the Vancouver island marmot. Sil Viculture actiVitieS N.

Macdonald: The b.c. l iberals claim that one of their four forestry priorities is advanced silviculture, yet this week, the Western Silviculture c ontractors a ssociation started an on-line petition to try and force this govern- ment to do even the bare minimum silviculture. My question is to the Minister of f orests. h ow does he reconcile b.c. l iberal claims with the reality that next year we will see the fewest number of trees planted in the province in the last 40 years? Hon. P .

Bell: The member is incorrect. in fact, silvi- culture follows harvesting. a s the member well knows, a few years ago we were harvesting 70 million cubic metres of timber per year in the province. l ast year we were down to 41 million cubic metres, and we would ex- pect silviculture to drop in relation to that. That said, we have our f orests for t omorrow program this year that will be planting over 20 million trees across this province as a result of this government's funding. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. The member has a supplemental. N.

Macdonald: b.c. l iberal forest policies have dev- astated harvesting as they have the forest industry as a whole, with 30,000 jobs lost and 72 mills shut down. That's a fact. but there are — listen to the number — 14 million hectares of public forest that have been devas- tated by the pine beetle. There have been over a million hectares that have been damaged by fire. There is a mas- sive replanting shortfall.

We are back to the crisis situation that we last saw in the 1980s, and b.c. l iberals are replanting less than ever. b.c. l iberals have destroyed the b.c. forest industry, and they are abandoning their responsibility to replant. So the question is: will the minister commit today to listen to silviculture professionals and increase the gov- ernment's investment in our public lands? Hon. P . Bell: The opposition seems to struggle with positions on a variety of initiatives.

The member op- posite, the critic, actually was quite complimentary of another one of the initiatives that this government has gone forward with recently, which is our efforts into c hina, and in fact, is on record in a number of differ - ent areas. What i find interesting is that the previous critic just earlier this week was saying that our efforts in c hina are a waste of time.

So now i know that the member for c ariboo n orth really would still like to be the critic for f orests. i'm sorry that he had a bit of a hiccup during the election and was displaced from that role. but it would be nice if the members opposite would get on the same page on their policy positions on things like c hina. [1420] B. Simpson: Without healthy public forests, there is no forest industry — period. This minister knows that there's a difference between legal obligations for

british c olumbia DebatesWednesday, May 19, 2010 5547 replanting after harvesting and this government's obli- gation for areas of the forest that have been disturbed and that this government is responsible for tree planting and for forest health. This minister knows that. The Western Silvicultural c ontractors on their web- page and webpage petition have pointed out that 15 million hectares have been hit by the mountain pine beetle. of that, between three million and six million hectares need planting to regrow those forests. That's between three billion and six billion trees, not a few mil- lion trees.

When is the minister going to stop talking about ad- vanced silviculture and tree planting and start doing it and fund an accelerated program? Hon. P . Bell: o bviously, the member opposite isn't listening. During the period from 2002 to 2008 this gov- ernment planted one billion trees. Y ou know, Mr.

Speaker, i'm still having trouble recon- ciling the member for c ariboo n orth's comments against the critic's comments around c hina. i'm just confused. i'd like for the member for c ariboo n orth to either sup- port the comments that he made on the Meisner show late last week, when he said that what we were doing in c hina was a complete waste of time and that i shouldn't go over and market into the c hinese marketplace, or the critic's perspective from just a few weeks before that, when he said that we were doing exactly the right thing. i would appreciate it if the member would reconcile those differences.

Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. B. Simpson: h ere's what the Western Silvicultural c ontractors have to say about the government's re- sponse just to the mountain pine beetle.

This is right off their webpage: the b.c. government's plan to address the mountain pine beetle problem "will only deal with an insignificant fraction of the area which requires tree planting, and it will take 20 years to complete." This min- ister knows that every year this government does not do an accelerated program delays forest health from com- ing back for a forest-healthy industry for 30 years. e very year delayed is 30 years. This minister is deflecting because he doesn't have an answer to the question.

That's what he's doing. n ot only is the minister putting the forest at risk; he's put- ting an entire industry at risk. The planting capacity, the seedling capacity is 350 million seedlings, and 150 trees planted puts a $700 million industry at risk. Stick to the question. Will the minister commit today to do an advanced silviculture response to the mountain pine beetle? Hon. P .

Bell: The reason why i'm deflecting is i'm having far too much fun pointing out the fact that the member for c ariboo n orth really wishes that he was the f orest critic still and seems to be making policy on be- half of the nDP . in 2009-10 there was over $250 million spent on silvi- culture in this province and 330,000 hectares treated. That's a record this government is proud of. Su MMer School SPaceS R.

Austin: r ecently, at 5 a.m. in the morning, hun- dreds of parents began lining up outside the Vancouver school board building, hoping to enrol their children in summer classes. o bviously, parents are worried that there is more demand for spaces than the district can accommodate. [1425] My question to the e ducation Minister is this: what is this government doing to help districts manage the in- creased demand for summer school spaces? Hon. M. MacDiarmid: We certainly understand that summer school is one of the valuable programs, and that's why our government is supporting it.

We continue to invest in public education. We continue to increase our investigation of public education. This is at a time when districts are expecting fewer students, but these are popular programs. We provided $15 million for summer school programs last year in the province. This year we are committing another $15 million, and that allowed last year 44,000 students to take summer learn- ing courses. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. R.

Austin: Well, cash-strapped school districts are slashing the number of summer school spaces they offer to students needing extra help or looking to im- prove their averages for entrance into university. The r ichmond school district cut the number of summer school spaces by almost 20 percent at a time when de- mand for summer school spaces has never been higher. a gain to the e ducation Minister: why can't districts af- ford to meet the demand for summer school spaces? Hon. M.

MacDiarmid: a s the member is well aware, our government is absolutely committed to education. a t a time when jurisdictions around n orth a merica are reducing their investment, this government has con- tinued to increase our investments in education. it's interesting to hear the member opposite be critical. What we know is that the nDP's platform contained 60 percent less investment in public education than we have put in terms of increases over the last two years. So again, these are valuable programs. We invested $15 million last year, and we put that amount in again this year for students across b.c.

british c olumbia Debates5548 Wednesday, May 19, 2010 [end of question period.] Petitions V . Huntington: i have the honour to present a peti- tion from constituents in Delta South in opposition to the hS t . M. Sather: i seek leave to make an introduction. Mr. Speaker: Proceed. Introductions by Members M. Sather: Joining us today in the precincts is a lexandra Morton. She's here to discuss the issue of sea lice and fish farms with the minister's office, the Ministry of a griculture and l ands. D. Routley: i'd like the h ouse to help me welcome my ca from the l adysmith office. Patty Mcnamara has joined us.

Patty is a great assistant to me, and i owe her such a debt of gratitude for her many hours of service. S. Hammell: it looks like i may have just missed her, but my daughter, Sage a aron, was in the gallery, and i'd like the h ouse to please make her welcome. Orders of the Day Hon.

M. de Jong: in c ommittee a, i call c ommittee of Supply — for the information of members, the esti- mates of the Ministry of energy, Mines and Petroleum r esources — and, in this chamber, continued commit- tee stage debate on bill 13. [1430-1435] Committee of the Whole House bi ll 13 — f ore St S an D r an Ge (f ir St n ation S Woo Dlan D l icence) Statute S aM en DMent a ct, 2010 (continued) The h ouse in c ommittee of the Whole (Section

b) on bill 13; l. r eid in the chair. The committee met at 2:36 p.m. The Chair: h on. Members, with your indulgence, i'd like to ask you to join me in recognizing 43 students visiting from r ichmond c hristian School in my riding. Their teachers are c hristy Simpson and Sigfried ong. i'd ask the h ouse to please make them welcome. on

section 4 (continued). The Chair: r ecognizing the member for c ariboo South — c ariboo n orth, rather. B. Simpson: c orrect. i miss the representative from c ariboo South. c harlie is missed in here. a nyway, having said that, let's get on with the job. We were in the middle of this

section 4. The

section has to do with the minister specifying a portion of the annual allowable cut, and it has to do with the fact that this will now be an area-based tenure, so there are some adjust- ments there. i had asked the minister the question about whether or not the work had been done in the various timber supply areas to make sure that these areas could be desig- nated quickly and that the volume was actually going to be there. it's not just lines on a map. Y ou can put lines on a map around a dead mountain pine beetle stand, and there's no volume to commercialize or turn into a com- mercial enterprise.

The minister had indicated a quick answer, and then we recessed. i'd like the minister to give me a more fulsome answer. h as the work actually been done? if so, does that work exist in some form with respect to all of the t Sa s? Some of the t Sa s? What's the status of the preparatory work to make sure these licences can actually be realized? Hon. P . Bell: Just in quickly reviewing my response from yesterday, i confirmed that while this work is on- going, some areas are further along than others.

There were some first n ations that expressed interest in early adoption, and we have been working specifically with those first n ations to try and identify land bases that are available to them. i've also been very clear in my public comments, and i'm happy to put on the record here as well, that i ex- pect that in some circumstances this will take quite some time. i'm not expecting we'll be able to move all 168 or so forest and range opportunities and agree- ments to area-based tenures quickly. i have expressed that, as well, in any of the meetings i've had with first n ations. i've also said that in areas where there is greater avail- ability of resource, the land is not as constrained — i often use f ort n elson as the example for no particular reason other than it is an area that there is some flexibil- ity — and that it would be easier for us to move quickly. in some areas, like portions of Vancouver island and the l ower Mainland, it will be far more challenging where the timber is constrained.

So the work has been ongoing — early days in some cases and more advanced in other cases. i do not want to create an expectation that we will be able to fully ac- commodate all 168 forest and range opportunities or agreements within the next year or two. That would not be realistic. [1440]

british c olumbia DebatesWednesday, May 19, 2010 5549 B. Simpson: Well, this is against a backdrop of a gov- ernment that has been chastised for the state of the forest inventory by the a ssociation of b.c. f orest Professionals, against a backdrop of a government that is in the process of effectively gutting the Ministry of f orests and tak- ing bodies out of the Ministry of f orests, and against a backdrop of a government that had attempted to double the woodlot program and expand the community forest program, announced in 2003 and just barely begun to be realized now that we're into 2010.

There's a good reason for some cynicism out there that this would happen quickly at all. So it's heartening to hear the minister indicate that there are some issues here, but it's more than just volume constraints or li- cence constraints on the land base. There are a whole bunch of other issues there. The minister mentioned that there are 168 forest and range agreements. i wonder if the minister could, for the public record, indicate how many of those have already expired and how many will expire within the next year. Hon. P .

Bell: There are 45 agreements that have ex- pired in the last short period of time this year. There are 22 more that are due to expire this year. We've contacted the 45 that have expired and advised them that we will be entering into discussions with them in the coming weeks about renewing those agreements on an interim basis until we're able to move forward on the area-based tenures. That will be the case with all of the agreements as we go forward. B. Simpson: f or once, i have to say that the minister's presumption of where i was going with this was bang on, and i appreciate the answer that he gave.

The question that's being asked, of course, is: what happens in the interim? The forest and range agree- ments and forest and range opportunities were difficult enough to get going. There were only five years, so they were a short duration.

They were volume-based. n ow you have a whole bunch of first n ations that are look- ing at an unknown time period before they can again get access to the land base to create economic activity from forests. i would hope, again, that the minister has the re- sources to accelerate that, because that's certainly what i'm hearing, especially given that we're in whatever the nature of this market bump is. n obody really knows how long it is. it's unfortunate that many of those f irst n ations are losing their ability to get to the land base at a time when there are actually some prices there that they could make some money off of. h opefully, that goes on. a second question related to this section, because the

section has to do with the fact that the minister has to make arrangements for an area-based tenure and appor- tionment of the annual allowable cut. in speaking with some of the first n ations, they have indicated to me that they're concerned that their only opportunity might be an area-based tenure, simply because they may not be able to find an area in their traditional territories that actually has a viable, healthy forest that they can extract resources from, especially timber resources. one of the questions that's being asked is: with this tenure coming into existence, with it being area-based, will it be the only vehicle?

With forest and range agree- ments going, with this tenure coming into existence, the question is: will it be the only vehicle that first n ations will be able to get access to, or will volume-based ten- ures still be available to first n ations? Hon. P . Bell: both forms of tenure will be available. B.

Simpson: The final line of questioning around this is that part of the difficulty in the woodlot program and expansion of the woodlot program, expansion of the community forest program, and the forest and range agreements, etc., is the role that b.c. t imber Sales plays both as a licensee with their lines on the map and as an agent of the crown.

That is often confusing for first n ations, as to how they're talking to b.c. t imber Sales. a re they talking to them as an agent of the crown, or are they talking to them as another licensee, in which they're trying to get some volume or an area on the land? one of the questions around the defining of the area is the role that b.c. t imber Sales will play in either con- straining that or enabling that. That's a fair comment from first n ations, because the woodlots experienced it, and community forests experienced it. [1445] i guess the question is: what role will b.c. t imber Sales play in this?

Will they be treated just as another li- censee? The work will be done, the line on the map will be done, and then b.c. t imber Sales will simply have to take their lumps like every other licensee. or will they be a player as an agent of the crown in determining what the first n ations get? Hon. P . Bell: b.c. t imber Sales has a number of functions. Probably the most important one from our perspective is to help us create a market pricing system, which requires the auctioning of 20 percent of the tim- ber across the province.

That said, we believe there are innovative partnerships that we can create with first n ations to advance both this type of tenure, this tenure opportunity, and the need to have sufficient data in the market pricing system to fulfil our responsibilities to the u nited States and the softwood lumber agreement. We have entered into discussions with first n ations — the h aida is a good example of one of the ones that is a bit more advanced at this point in time — to consider our options of how we can achieve those dual mandates

british c olumbia Debates5550 Wednesday, May 19, 2010 with the timber resource that's currently allocated to b.c. t imber Sales. i think the member also asked the question: what role will b.c. t imber Sales play? c ertainly, they are a licen- see and will continue to be a licensee. but finding ways of creating partnerships, we think, will advance this agenda and help us move more quickly in creating area- based tenures for first n ations. B.

Simpson: i appreciate the minister's answer. i know my question was a bit convoluted, so let me try and fine- tune it a little bit. in the case of trying to determine woodlot expansion, for example, there's a different relationship between Ministry of f orests and b.c. t imber Sales when it comes to trying to draw the lines on the map as to where you would put a woodlot.

There's an intimate relation- ship there because b.c. t imber Sales is still part of the crown. it's much easier, as some people would argue, for b.c. t imber Sales to say, "u h-uh, i don't think so," than it is, necessarily, for other licensees to say that because of that relationship. The second issue is that often first n ations are sit- ting with b.c. t imber Sales as an agent of the crown. The question that i'm merely trying to get at here is: in the drawing of the lines on the map, will that be clearly Ministry of f orests line staff or agents of the minis- ter's office and first n ations?

The lines then get drawn. e verybody agrees that that's where it is, and then b.c. t imber Sales is simply told, like the other licences, where those lines are. o therwise, as the first n ations indicate, b.c. t imber Sales has a special place at the table, which often means they don't get access to their areas. Hon. P . Bell: The member's incorrect.

The only role that b.c. t imber Sales has in working with first n ations, other than as a licensee, would be on a consultation basis when they're advancing their forest development plans and cutting permits. o ther than that, they don't play any role that any normal licensee would not play. The model that the member asks about in terms of how these areas will be determined. We will treat b.c. t imber Sales like we would any other licensee.

They won't be engaged initially, but once the early discussions with the first n ations take place, b.c. t imber Sales, as well as any of the other operating licensees in the area, would be brought into the discussion to determine the appropriate lines on the map to be drawn and how this new tenure might be put into place. Sections 4 and 5 approved. on

section 6. B. Simpson: a gain, the minister's clarity in his answer was what i was after, but i just want to correct the rec- ord. i was saying that there was confusion on part of f irst n ations woodlots — others — about the role that b.c . t imber Sales plays, because they see them as an agent of the c rown. That's where the confusion comes from, not the delineation of functions or the legislation or what- ever but the relationship that occurs because b.c . t imber Sales is an agent of the crown as well as a licensee. on

section 6. i need some clarification here, because it's one of those changes that seems to be changing, pot- entially, the content of a licence. i wonder if the minister can just give an explanatory note. [1450] f or folks who do pay attention to this stuff, as op- position we just get these little

section notes, and all it says is that

section 6 provides consistency with the addi- tion of another section. but often i find that sometimes changing a little word here and a little word there is ac- tually making a broader change. So what's the nature of this

section change? Hon. P . Bell: in

section 14(g.1) the existing language allows for…. When a first n ation enters into an interim measures agreement that results in a forest licence, if the first n ation does not comply with some of the elements of the agreement, then the licence can be cancelled. That exists currently in 14(g.1). The amendment simply har - monizes the language with the award of the first n ations woodland licence. So it just allows for that same provi- sion to exist with a first n ations woodland licence. Sections 6 and 7 approved. on

section 8. B. Simpson: i don't want to get into the debate on delegated authority, because that's what i understand that we're actually doing here — the continuation of some changes in

section 8 to be consistent with what we saw in bill 7. but the (

c) portion of this does say "by striking out 'the person who evaluated the applications'" and substituting that with "the minister may." in this case, one of the questions — and it's similar to community forests and woodlots — is the whole appli- cation process. i wonder if the minister could just give an indication of what the process is that he foresees will occur in the application for these new licences. h ow does he see the application process unfolding? Hon. P . Bell: The process will mirror the application process for a community forest where the minister will invite the community to apply.

The community will then go through that process, apply, and then the final deci- sion would be made by the minister. B. Simpson: i want to be clear, because the invitation to apply is actually often as a result of the community

british c olumbia DebatesWednesday, May 19, 2010 5551 doing some work and kind of putting a case together, making sure that other people — in the case of com- munity forests, often making sure that other entities — are supportive of the initiative. My understanding of how that process works, then, is there's a bit of a lobby done to the minister saying: "We've got some of our ducks in a row. We kind of know what we want to do here. We've got people signed off on it." Then they get a formal letter, which is the formal let- ter of an invitation to apply.

Does the minister see that same kind of preliminary process having to unfold first before the formal invitation to apply occurs? Hon. P . Bell: The member's correct. B.

Simpson: but in this case, i guess, you have, as the minister indicated, a number of first n ations that are in forest and range agreements already, and the minister has indicated that the intent is over time to get as many of these licences out to first n ations as possible. [1455] The minister indicated that 45 of the forest and range agreements have already expired, and 22 are about to expire. of course, for all of them, the clock is ticking down. is the intent for the minister to just simply initiate in- vitations to some of these to apply right away? e specially for ones — as we had a dialogue yesterday — that have been successful with forest and range agreements and want to continue, would there not be some kind of auto- matic: "l et's get on with it, send out an invitation to apply, and let's get the ball rolling"? or is there going to be some kind of requirement on first n ations…? it's more a question of clarity for people as to how this will unfold.

Would there be some expecta- tion that "no, some additional work is going to have to be done before you get the invitation to actually start the process"? Hon. P . Bell: i think the answer to the member's question is probably yes. c ommunities that clearly have demonstrated some success and want to move quickly and will have demonstrated their ability are ones that we would invite very quickly. one of the additional elements that i think is im- portant to keep in mind here is that we don't want to create unrealistic expectations.

Prior to the invitation we would at least be looking to determine if there is an available land base to put this tenure on in the area that had been identified by the first n ation. That would be one of the early things, rather than issuing an invitation not knowing whether or not there is land base available to put this tenure on. B. Simpson: Which in many cases is the rub — whether or not that can be achieved. My question to the minister on this, then, is: given the backdrop of the ministry losing bodies….

We're ex- pecting another round of announcements for job losses within the Ministry of f orests and r ange. h ow is the minister going to staff — actually getting the work done to make the determinations on the ground, given that he's got a diminishing workforce? Hon. P . Bell: The majority of the reductions that are being made in the f orest Service right now are adminis- trative in nature. We certainly have a group of qualified individuals in our tenures branch that are more than ca- pable of dealing with this work. but again, i just want to step back and make sure that i don't create unrealistic expectations.

This will be a very complex project. if all 168 first n ations that currently have some form of tenure or forest and range oppor - tunities or agreements wanted to move to the new first n ations woodland licence, it would be a very complex project, and it would take quite some time. i know that the member opposite follows along the interests of the woodlot associations, community forests. These tenures will be equally as complex as the tenures that we issue under woodlots and community forests.

So i don't want to create unrealistic expectations. it will be complex, but we certainly have qualified staff ready to take on this role. B. Simpson: The minister has said a number of times that he doesn't want to set unrealistic expectations. but the minister also indicated in the line of questioning be- fore that one of the bottlenecks will be the identification of the possible areas on the land base. That bottleneck is only a bottleneck because of a lack of resources from the Ministry of f orests assigned to go and get that work done.

That work could be accelerated if a sufficient number of bodies and resources were put to it. it's the only bottleneck that the minister has articu- lated so far. My question to the minister is: is it possible, if the minister assigned additional staff, to address that very issue and shorten the time frame that it's going to take to get the first one or half-dozen of these done? [1500] Hon. P .

Bell: i know we're creating lots of leeway in this debate, and i'm not sure that discussing the staffing levels of the Ministry of f orests and r ange fits within this particular bill. h owever, i will endeavour to answer the question at this point anyway. The holdup frequently in issuing some form of tenure.... i'll use the u cluelet example. The u cluelet community forest is really not a function of the number of staff that are available. it's finding an agreement amongst the li- censees and the community, in the case of u cluelet, on what that tenure might look like and how you put it on

british c olumbia Debates5552 Wednesday, May 19, 2010 the land base. That is a very constrained timber supply area, a very challenged timber supply area. e ventually we were able to come to an agreement that did not re- flect what u cluelet originally was looking for but did present a reasonable outcome. i'm not concerned about staffing levels. i think we will have sufficient staff to implement this particular program. but again, i just need to be cautious in not cre- ating undue expectations — not a function of staffing, a function of how complex the challenge will be.

The member actually, i know, is aware of it. i've often heard him speak in the h ouse on the number of differ - ent types of tenures, the number of different users on the land base. h e well knows how challenging it is to man- age this province that we live in. So i think i'll just leave it at that at this point. B. Simpson: i don't think it's latitude we're getting; i think we're getting to the heart of the issue. This is a new licence. in order to realize that licence, there have to be appropriate resources put to realizing a licence. one of those resources is the human resources.

Given the minister's comments…. i take the com- plexity on the ground; i take that it takes time. but it also takes people-hours to walk through the process. it takes people-hours on the part of the ministry to medi- ate the process, to take it through all of the hoops that have to be done. i guess we'll agree to disagree with re- spect to whether the minister has sufficient resources to do that or not. My final question on this point.

The minister again has said that he doesn't want to set unrealistic expecta- tions. but what are his expectations of the duration for maybe the first one of these or first couple of these to actually be realized? Hon. P . Bell: We're hopeful that we would get four or five invitations out this year and have those licences in place next year. Sections 8 to 10 inclusive approved. on

section 11. B. Simpson: This

section is where the bill seems to set out the requirements for getting one of these licences. before i get into it in more detail, i note that subsection (1) that's going to be inserted into 43.51 of the f orest a ct states: "The minister may enter into a community forest agreement (

a) with a first nation or its representative…." Why is the term "community forest agreement" used there and not the new term, which is the "first n ations woodland licence"? Hon. P . Bell: We used the opportunity, as we were in this particular piece of legislation, to perform a housekeep- ing amendment to the community forest regulation. This doesn't impact the new first nations woodland licence. B.

Simpson: Does this suggest, then, that by tidying up the language and retaining it, a first n ation can get a community forest licence? i know there's other lan- guage in here so the first n ations can get a woodlot licence. Would one preclude getting the other? is there a relationship between the two? [1505] Hon. P . Bell: This amendment allows first n ations to hold either a community forest licence, a woodlot licence, a new first n ations woodland licence or any combination of those. B.

Simpson: i guess i'm not clear, then, if a commun- ity forest…. l et me ask this question. c an they hold more than one of these licences? a ll three are area-based licences. i guess the confusion is if you've got this new first n ations licence but they can access a community forest licence or access a wood- lot licence, both area-based. What's the point of going through the whole rigmarole of establishing a new li- cence? Why not stop this? a s the minister has indicated, the difficulties, etc….

Why not start flipping over some of these forest and range agreements to community for- est licences as quickly as possible? That already exists. Hon. P . Bell: While first n ations could hold any indi- vidual one of those three forms of tenure or a combination of those tenures or more than one — two woodlots, as an example — the first n ations woodland licences are exclusively for first n ations and not available to com- munities or non–first n ations communities.

There are first n ations that currently hold community forests in partnerships with communities. a n example of that would be the Mcl eod l ake indian band in the district of Mackenzie. it's necessary to have this wording in here in order to allow any combination or any indi- vidual of those tenures to be held. in addition, we heard clearly from first n ations that they were looking for a stand-alone form of tenure in the new f irst n ations woodland licence. We did our best to reflect the different options that they were considering or that were important in this piece of legislation.

So that's the importance of actually having this here as op- posed to simply asking f irst n ations to adopt existing forms of tenure. B. Simpson: i appreciate the clarification. The other thing, of course, is that the woodland licence has other commercial — the botanical, etc…. They've got the unique aspects to it. We'll get into the stumpage question later on in here, because one of the things, of course, is that community

british c olumbia DebatesWednesday, May 19, 2010 5553 forest stumpage is different than what's being assigned to these licences. That's become a bit of a bone of conten- tion, as the minister is well aware. So i take the minister's point on community forest agreements, etc. There are other sections in here about converting community forest agreements or woodlot agreements. We're going to get into the private land component. but am i correct that if a community forest is held by a first n ations…? Would that first n ations then be able to just convert that into one of these new licences? Hon. P .

Bell: That's correct. B. Simpson: We'll get into substance of stumpage shortly. but in the conversion of that licence, since we're dealing with it under this clause, would they then con- vert it to all of the stumpage, the rent, the constraints on this licence and lose the community forest stumpage in that conversion? Hon. P . Bell: The member should understand that there are three different forms of tenure here. The first n ation could choose any one of those three forms of tenure depending on what's offered. c ertainly, it's our intent to move forward with the new first n ations woodland licence.

We've tried to craft that in a way that meets the spirit of what we heard in the process of discussing this with first n ations. but you wouldn't be able to pick an element of the community forest licence, an element of a woodlot and an element of a first n ations woodland licence and create a new form of tenure that would combine the three. it would be choosing one of those three forms of tenure. B.

Simpson: a gain, for clarity, why wouldn't first n ations then just simply apply for community forest licences and not go for these because of the stumpage question and the tabular rate stumpage for community forests? [1510] Would the minister take that? if first n ations say, "okay, on balance, we like some aspects of this new licence, but the reality is that the economics of a community forest licence are a lot better," and you get a whole bunch of applications for community forests…. Will the minister just settle and go with f irst n ations on their desire for a community forest in lieu of one of these? Hon.

P . Bell: i believe i've already answered that ques- tion. This type of tenure is a stand-alone tenure. There are three forms of tenure here that may be eligible. There are many other forms of tenure that would be avail- able to first n ations as well. but this particular tenure doesn't allow you — nor do any of the others — to pick and choose what elements of other tenures you might be able to incorporate in this.

This tenure was built on the principle of the discus- sions that we had with the 23 f irst n ations and also the hundred or more first n ations that i visited with and talked to during both the round-table work and the other community meetings that i do on a regular basis. Sections 11 and 12 approved. on

section 13. B. Simpson: This is a very large

section with a num- ber of components to it. What i'll do in the interests of time is try and do some general questions to get to the heart of some of this. a concern that's been raised with me about getting ac- cess to one of these new licences is the issue of having to be involved in an interim agreement or the treaty process or some kind of agreement with the government of which this new licence forms a part of that agreement. Some f irst n ations have indicated to me that they just want to be able to apply for the licence.

They don't want to be in- volved in any other business with the government. i wonder if the minister can clarify: if you've got a first n ation that is not in the treaty process, isn't involved in interim agreements with the government, isn't involved in broader partnership agreements with the government and just wants one of these, will they be able to get one? The Chair: r ecognizing the member for n anaimo– n orth c owichan seeking leave to make an introduction. l eave granted. Introductions by Members D. Routley: i would like to make welcome a group of students from e cole Pauline h aarer School in n anaimo.

They are accompanied by Ms. Virginia l ofeudo. They are 25 grade 6 students with ten adults accompanying them, who have come to take a look at how our parlia- ment works. i could tell them now that they're watching debate on a bill, committee stage of a bill, where the critic is asking the minister specific questions about that bill. if they'd been here earlier for question period, they would have seen a much more heated exchange. Mr. MacMinn, who is one of the c lerks in the h ouse, tells students that there's anger and heat in our chamber so that there isn't blood on our streets.

That's how we contain ourselves in a democracy. i would like those of us in the h ouse to help make them welcome to their h ouse. Hon. P . Bell: i, too, would like to welcome all the stu- dents and teachers and parents. i should tell you that there's a reason for the width of the desks being away from us. Y ou may have heard this outside already, but

british c olumbia Debates5554 Wednesday, May 19, 2010 it's actually 2½ sword lengths. Some hundred or so years ago, when i guess people used to maybe bring swords in here, it would prevent us from actually gouging — doing all that kind of stuff. a nyway, we're having a great debate right now. We're having a great debate on first n ations woodland licences, which is a new form of tenure that we're working with first n ations in the Ministry of f orests and r ange. Debate Continued Hon. P .

Bell: The answer to the question is that in- terim measure agreements will be required to enter into new first n ations woodland licences, but one should not presuppose what an interim measures agreement contains. it does not require being involved in the treaty process, and it may be some other form of agreement. e ach interim measures agreement is crafted to reflect the desires, needs and wants of both the first n ation and the province of british c olumbia.

So i don't think first n ations will see that as an impediment going for - ward. it is to be crafted specific to the needs of each of the individual communities. [1515] B. Simpson: Welcome, to the students. one of the things i would say to the students is that this is how your laws are made, your helmet laws and all of that fun stuff. This one happens to be with respect to how first n ations in the province can get access to our forests.

With that, i would beg to politely differ with the min- ister's impression of first n ations sense of this. i have been told categorically — and it is one of the reasons why there will be a joint first n ations f orestry c ouncil and energy council meeting come June — that this is problematic, that first n ations believe these licences should be unencumbered from having to be involved in any kind of interim measures, treaty or not treaty. if i look back at the

section around community forests, for first n ations accessing a community forest in sec- tion 11, there's a clause (

b) that says "under prescribed circumstances or with a holder that meets prescribed requirements." i'm wondering why there wasn't an addi- tional clause put in here — where if a first n ation comes forward that can meet the test, for example, of being able to viably have one of these licences but is not involved in interim measures with the government in any way, shape or form — that would allow the minister to say: "o kay, that makes sense, and we will issue one of these licences even though you're not involved in an interim measure." Hon. P .

Bell: a gain, just stepping back, the member opposite…. i should tell the folks up in the gallery that these two fine young gentlemen as well as the gentleman be- hind me are all government staff members to me as the Minister of f orests.

They provide me with advice on the well-reasoned and thought-through questions from the member of the opposition. h e unfortunately does not have that same opportunity, which puts him at a dis- advantage. it's in order to ensure that we provide full answers to his questions, and it's the only time that staff members are allowed in the h ouse. o therwise, it's only Mla s, elected officials, that are allowed in here. t o answer the member's question, using a wood- lot as an example, a woodlot to be awarded to a first n ation would require an interim measures agreement. o therwise it would be competitively awarded. a s i know, the member opposite understands woodlots are competitively awarded under normal circumstances. if it is a community forest, although there isn't the direct competitive process, there is an application pro- cess that the community goes through that awards the tenure.

So the interim measures agreement is appro- priate, and we think it will provide enough flexibility to meet the needs of first n ations across the province. There may be a misunderstanding.

The member earlier pointed to a misunderstanding generally on the part of people publicly that b.c. t imber Sales has responsibilities from government's perspective other than its role as licensee and that he was aware of its official role but that others misunderstood it. i think that probably is the same for this particular issue. [1520] a n interim measures agreement can be many differ - ent things. o ur desire will be to create interim measures agreements that make sense for each individual first n ation, and we think they will likely vary depending on that first n ation's interests. B.

Simpson: a gain, from the perspective of first n ations, maybe that's a communications issue from the minister's office to first n ations. The reality is that the constraint put on first n ations appears to be: "Y ou've got to be playing in our sandbox in order to get one of these." That's how it's been articulated to me that it feels like for first n ations: "There's a bigger sandbox here.

We want to be moving on other things. h ere's your sucker for the day if you come in and play in our sandbox." That's their impression. if that's not the case, then i think there is a communications issue in the minister's office, in the ministry, with first n ations. The minister raises…. h is answer to the question is an interesting one, in referencing the "may be" related to the issue of not wanting to put in language to direct-award these, because woodlots are competitive. c ommunity for- ests have a consultation process in a broader process. Y et in this same bill, later on in

section 17, there's the ability to direct-award grazing licences and various things for first n ations. i recall, when i was the f orests critic, an amendment act that gave district managers the

british c olumbia DebatesWednesday, May 19, 2010 5555 ability to direct-award licences to first n ations as well. if the issue is direct-award, then i think that everybody understands this is a different relationship, a different legal relationship and so on. a gain, i would ask the minister: would he consider repealing this

section and coming up with language that allows first n ations, or adding a

section that allows first n ations, to access these without being involved in an in- terim measure? That's what i'm hearing is a real request on the part of first n ations. Hon. P . Bell: no. B. Simpson: That's about as clear an answer as you can get. We're constrained, as the minister has indicated, in resources that we have to put forward reasoned amend- ments. but if we had the ability, we would have tried to figure out a reasoned amendment to this. i take the min- ister's point about the direct-award issue, but i think it is unfair to first n ations to have to have an interim agree- ment in place to get one of these. l et's move on to another

section in this section. it's the whole issue of the management plan approval. i wonder if the minister could just simply clarify what the nature of the management plan is that's referenced here. is it a forest stewardship plan, or does that come afterwards? This management plan must be put in place prior to approval by the minister, and i would just like some clarification of what the process is. Y ou get a letter of invitation. Does the management plan have to come in after the letter of invitation and before the approval? Where does it fit in the sequence of events? Hon. P .

Bell: We expect that this will largely mirror the type of work that goes on with community forests or tree farm licences. That said, it will be implemented by regulation, and we will consult with first n ations as we develop these forms of tenures to ensure that the man- agement plan reflects the spirit of the objectives of the first n ations. This will be something that'll be done by regulation if this piece of legislation is approved by the h ouse and as we enter into those agreements. B.

Simpson: i was just going to explain to the folks, if they had been here, that with a majority, it's pretty much a given that you actually get it through.

The minister has indicated that this management plan has yet to be determined. one of the questions with re- spect to this particular licence and communities that will get one of these licences…. [1525] of course, the resources required to meet the govern- ment's obligations…. in the process of trying to get one of these licences, will there be resources made available to first n ations — and in what form, if they are — to be able to actually meet whatever the regulatory require- ments are to submit a management plan to get one? it becomes a chicken and an egg for first n ations to be able to do these things.

Hon. P . Bell: The resources that may be made available to a first n ation to do this sort of work quite conceiv- ably could be included as part of an interim measures agreement, which might give a first n ation a very good reason to want to be part of an interim measures agree- ment. That's why i had indicated earlier to the member that i don't think we should have preconceived notions of what an interim measures agreement might look like. B.

Simpson: it is on the public record, and i will al- low first n ations to respond to the minister's statement of: "Y ou come into our sandbox, and we'll give you some resources to be able to get another incremental benefit from playing the game our way." it's on the public record, and first n ations can respond to the way that the min- ister has couched it. one of the questions that's raised here with respect to putting constraints on a management plan and all of that stuff is related to that, where the crown says to first n ations….

There's a presumption in this that the areas that are going to be defined, as much as possible, will be in the traditional territories of the first n ations. My understanding is that the minister has indicated that's going to be one of the things that the government is go- ing to attempt to do. it's why some first n ations, as i indicated earlier, are concerned a bit about whether that volume actually exists to get operating areas in their traditional territories. but in the Tsilhqot'in Nation v. British Columbia, the Judge Vickers case, there was a statement made in the finding of that case, and i'll quote it.

The quotation is: "The present provisions of the f orest a ct do not apply to those areas that meet the test for aboriginal title." i said in some of my opening comments that what the government is doing here may be open to legal chal- lenge. one of the questions then is: if the government is using a presumption that the area being defined is in the traditional territory of the first n ation — there's a tacit assumption by the crown that recognizes that the area that's defined is in the traditional territory of the first n ations — is it not, according to the Vickers case, inappropriate for the crown to then apply the provincial regulatory requirements in order to achieve economic benefit from that same area?

Just in terms of the legal advice to the minister and the ministry, are we not setting ourselves up for a legal challenge where a first n ation can say: "Y ou've given us recognition that this is in our traditional territory, you've drawn a line on the map in our traditional territory, and now you're tell- ing us what to do in our traditional territory"?

british c olumbia Debates5556 Wednesday, May 19, 2010 Judge Vickers, in the t silhqot'in case, says that the f orest a ct provisions ought not to apply. h as that been canvassed and discussed with the minister? Hon. P . Bell: There's a couple of things about the Vickers case that the member opposite may have neg- lected to mention. The first is that it is currently being appealed, and the second is that the passages that i be- lieve the member has read were an opinion by Justice Vickers and not a decision.

The legal advice that i've received is that this particu- lar element of the legislation will meet the test of the courts here in the province of british c olumbia. [1530] B. Simpson: f air enough. it's one of those things, i guess, that will remain to be seen. i take it…. i mean, judges' decisions and judges' advice are not necessar - ily discriminated against when other judges then take those into consideration.

The advice is often taken into consideration just as much as the judgment is. if the government is appealing, which is a whole question in and of itself, under the new relationship agreement, it doesn't mean that the government is going to win, and this judgment may stand — and the advice that goes with the judgment as well.

With respect to the management plan and it going into regulation, one of the questions is: what, then, is the process for determining what the nature of that manage- ment plan is going to be? h ow does the minister foresee sitting down with first n ations to decide what the na- ture of the management plan might be that would then be required in order to get one of these licences? Hon. P . Bell: We believe that starting with a template of the community forest agreement management plans would be a good place to start.

We then will sit down and discuss that, particularly with the early adopters but also other first n ations that are interested in talking about the management plan. it's possible that the first n ations f orestry c ouncil will want to play a role in that, although i don't want to presuppose that. The other thing that i think is important to point out, though, is that the management plan may be different from one agreement to another.

So it wouldn't necessar- ily require exactly the same management plan for two first n ations. i think eventually what you would see is the development, as i said, of a template, and then that template may be modified to meet the individual needs of a particular first n ation. We're flexible on this, and we want to make sure that it works. These tenures are not intended in any way of trying to be prescriptive. We want to try and meet the needs of the first n ations so that they can best reflect the val- ues that they are trying to extract from the land base, whether they be cultural, social or economic values. B.

Simpson: i think the flexibility — because there's flexibility in community forests as well — is important. c ould the minister just clarify? in

section (

b) of that same subsection it says: "if required under the agreement between the first nation and the government referred to in subsection (2) of this" — which is the one that estab- lishes this new licence — "…one or more agreements referred to in

section 12 are surrendered." What's the nature of that section, and what would have to be sur - rendered — or may? Hon. P . Bell: Subsection (4)(

b) allows first n ations to convert other forms of tenure to a new first n ations woodland licence. That might be, as an example, taking a forest and range opportunity or agreement, a non-re- placeable forest licence, a woodlot, perhaps a community forest — there are a few of those out there as well — and converting them to the new first n ations woodland li- cence. This just simply allows that. [1535] u p until now the challenge has actually been that you need to surrender the tenure prior to another tenure be- ing issued, so there isn't that seamless transition.

We've tried to make it that way by issuing the new tenure at the same time that the previous tenure is surrendered, but this is a much cleaner, simpler process. it will be admin- istratively more efficient and allow us to move the new tenures into first n ations woodland licences in a much more efficient manner. B. Simpson: Moving on, then, into changes. The sec- tion in the bill is 43.55: "a first nations woodland licence (

a) must be for a term of not less than 25 years and not more than 99 years." What's the thinking, i wonder if the minister could tell us, behind this 25 to 99, because my understanding…. f or example, tree farm licences are 25-years renewable. Y ou've got 15-year renewable. Y ou have five-year non-renewable. So this 25 to 99 years, as i understand it, would be unique to these. Why use that term "25 to 99"? Hon. P . Bell: This language replicates the la

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0519pm-03
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0519pm 03
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	2dd9f185446b5d3c1cedd7af1609f0a5c46709a5

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