Manitoba Hansard — 19 July 1978 (Sitting 97, 31st Legislature, 2nd Session)

31-2-97

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, July 19, 1978 Time: 10:00 a.m. OPENING PRAYER by Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER, Hon. Harry E. Graham (Birtle-Russell): I should like to draw the attention of the honourable members to the gallery on my right where we have 26 students of Grades 3 and 4 standing of Victoria Albert School under the direction of Miss Elaine Slenbach . This school is in the constituency of the Honourable Member for Winnipeg Centre. On behalf of all the honourable members, we welcome you here this morning. Presenting Petitions . . . Reading and Receiving Petitions.

PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Swan River . MR. DOUG GOURLAY: I beg to present the second report of the Standing Committee on Private Bills. MR. CLERK: Your Committee met on July 18, 1978, and heard representations with respect to the various bills referred , as follows : Bill No. 55 -

An Act for the Relief of lngibjorg Elizabeth Aida Hawes - J. S. Walker, Q.C. Bill No. 10 -

An Act Respecting the Royal Trust Company and Royal Trust Corporation of Canada. - R. G. SmeJiie, Q.C. Bill No. 63

An Act to grant Additional Powers to Thistle Curling Club Limited. - Douglas E. Finkbeiner . Bill No. 16 -

An Act to amend

An Act to incorporate St. John's-Ravenscourt School - Mr. F. W. Sellers . Your Committee has considered Bills: No. 13

An Act to amend

An Act to Incorporate Co-operative Credit Society of Manitoba Limited. No. 16

An Act to amend

An Act to incorporate St. John's-Ravenscourt School. No. 17

An Act to amend

An Act to Incorporate the Brandon General Hospital. No. 37 -

An Act to amend

An Act to incorporate the Wawanesa and District Memorial Hospital Association . No. 55 -

An Act for the Relief of lngibjorg Elizabeth Aida Hawes . No. 63 -

An Act to Grant Additional Powers to Thistle Curling Club Limited . And has agreed to report the same without amendment. Your Committee has also considered Bills: No. 10 -

An Act Respecting the Royal Trust Company and Royal Trust Corporation of Canada . No. 34 -

An Act to exempt the 00-ZA-WE-KWUN CENTRE INCORPORATED from certain provisions of The Liquor Control Act. And has agreed to report the same with certain amendments. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Swan River. MR. GOURLAY: I move , seconded by the Member for Minnedosa, that the report of the committee be received . MOTION presented and carried. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Swan River. 5237

Wednesday, July 19, 1978 MR. GOURLAY: I beg to move , econded by the Honou rable Member for Minnedosa, that the fees paid with respect to the following bills be refunded less the costs of printing : Bill No. 16

An Act to amend

An Act to Incorporate St. John 's-Ravenscourt School. Bill No. 17 -

An Act to amend

An Act to Incorporate the Brandon General Hospital. MOTION presented and carried . MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Crescentwood . MR. WARREN STEEN: Mr. Speaker , I beg to present the First Report of the Standing Committee on Statutory Regulations and Order s. MR. CLERK: Your Committee met on Friday , July 7, 1978 and appointed Mr. Steen as Chairman and established the quorum of the Committee to be six members. Your Comm ittee met on the date s as shown to hear public representations with respect to the following Bills : No. 38 The Marita l Property Act , No. 39 The Family Maintena nce Act , No. 40

An Act to amend The Provincial Judges Act (2), No. 41

An Act to amend Various Acts Relating to Marital Property , No. 42

An Act to amend The Queen 's Bench Act. July 7, 1978 Ralf Kyritz , Manitoba Teachers ' Society, Pat Cooper , Junior League of Winnipeg, Dianne DeGraves , Young Women 's Christian Assoc iation , Ruth Browne , Evelyn Wyrzykowski and Shirley Scaletta , Catholic Women 's League , Provincial Counc il, Mona and Gordon Brown . July 8, 1978 Georgia Cordes , Janet Paxton , J. M.

Anderson-Johnson , Alice Steinbart , Coalition on Family Law, Murray Smith , Maureen Morrison , Man itoba Division of The Canadian Union of Public Emp loyees, Jill Oliver , Val Duke , Manitoba Association of Women and the Law, Ellen Kruger , Women 's Place . July 10, 1978 Maude Lelond , Manitoba Women 's Inst itute , Winnie Fung , Family Serv ices of Winnipeg Inc., Maxine Prystupa , Gail Schnabl , Mani toba Associat ion of Social Work ers , Muriel Smith , Charles Lamont , Faith Kerstetter , Berenice Sisler .

July 11, 1978 Beverley Goodwin , Jacie Skel ton, Nat ional Farmers Union , Darlene Henderson , National Farmers Union , Donnie Parker , Muriel Arpin , Counc il of Women of Winnipeg , Ruth Pear , Manitoba Child Care Association , Linda Taylor , Winnipeg Women 's Liberation , Laura Singleton , University of Winnipeg Students ' Assoc iation , Sharron Corne . July 12, 1978 Kenneth Emberley , Rosalyn Golfman , Perry Schulman , J.O.

Turner , Mary Jo Quarry , Anne Jackson, Canadian Congress of Women , Richard Shead, Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce , Norma McCorm ick , Claudia Engel , Manitoba Actio n Committee on the Status of Women , Jean Carson , Provincial Council of Women of Man itoba , 5238

Wednesday, July 19, 1978 Myrna Bowman, Manitoba Bar Associat ion. July 13, 1978 Leigh Halprin, Eleanor Large , Winnifred Havelock, Sandra Oakley, Manitoba Federation of Labour, Equal Rights and Opportunities Committee , Irene Ryland, Marilyn McGonigal , Abe Anhang , Estate Planning Council of Winnipeg . Your Committee has considered the following Bills : No. 38 The Marital Property Act , No. 39 The Family Maintenance Act , No. 40

An Act to amend The Provincial Judges Act (2), No. 41

An Act to amend Various Acts Relating to Marital Property , No. 42

An Act to amend The Queen 's Bench Act , And has agreed to report the same with certain amendments . MR. SPEAKER: The Honourab le Member for Crescentwood. MR. STEEN: Mr. Speaker , I move , seconded by the Honourable Member for Virden , that the report of the Committee be received . MOTION presented and carried. MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS AND TABLING OF REPORTS MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Consumer Affairs . HON. EDWARD McGILL (Brandon West): Mr.

Speaker , I wish to make a statement to the House with respect to the proposal for a new Personal Investigations Act, and I will table the proposal at the conclusion of my remarks. The Personal Investigations Act was passed . . . MR. SPEAKER: Order , order please . Has the honourable member got copies for members of the Chamber? MR. McGILL: Mr. Speaker, there are copies of the statement available and can be distributed to the members . You have them there . MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Leader of the Opposition on a point of order . MR.

EDWARD SCHREYER (Rossmere): Yes, nothing would be lost, I don 't suppose, given that we will be in session this afternoon, whether the Minister would mind deferring his statement until the afternoon sitting . MR. McGILL: Mr. Speaker , I would be very pleased to do so, but I believe there may be an inclination to be in Committee this afternoon . The Clerk of the House has gone to obtain copies of this statement and long before I am completed with my statement he will return with them , I am sure. If I might continue, Mr.

Speaker , I referred to The Personal Investigations Act , which was passed in 1971 and is administered by The Consumers ' Bureau . The Act deals with the exchange of personal information on individuals for the purpose of entering into agreements for credit , insurance, employment or tenancy . Since the Act was introduced in Manitoba, the other provinces have enacted similar legislation and in many cases , as a provincial act was introduced, new provisions were included that did not and do not exist in The Manitoba Act.

Many of these provisions were left out of The Manitoba Act for the reasons that they were considered to be unnecessary or unduly restrictive. With the inclusion of these provisions in other jurisdictions , we have been most interested in determining whether any practical benefit has been derived from them and whether they have served to seriously impede the flow of information that is so necessary for healthy commercial activity. In addition to developments in other provinces , we have been following the deliberations of the Uniform Law Conference of Canada .

The conference has been working for several years on a project to produce a uniform bill for consideration throughout the country . Our Legislative Counsel and his Deputy have been very much involved in tnis activity and there has been close liaison between the Legislative Counsel Office and my departmental officials . The proposed uniform bill deals only with 5239

Wednesday, July 19, 1978 the collection and dissemination of information by reporting agencies . This is a much narrower application than The Personal Investigations Act of Manitoba . Neverthe less, a great deal of benefit has been derived from the proposals put forward by the confe rence. The Manitoba Act has not been amended since it was originally passed . Administrative experience indicates that some updating is required and that the provisions tha t have been included in other jurisdictions are desirable for application in Manitoba .

In view of this , my departmental officials, in collaboration with Legislat ive Counsel , have prepared a propos al for a new Personal Investigations Act. The main differences are as follows : Personal reporting agencies will be required to be registered . The main reason for this is in order that personal reporting agencies shall be identified to the Bureau so that the staff may be able to advise citizens the name and location of agencies in Manitoba that maintain personal files on citizens.

If a business obtains and uses a personal report on an applicant , that business must inform the applicant that the manner in which he handles its obligat ions in the transaction may be reported to others. Spouses may request that they have individua l personal file s. When a personal reporting agency first opens a personal file on a person , the agency shall inform that person in writing of the opening of the file . Upon request by a person to a personal reporting agency , the agency shall make a copy of that person 's personal file or personal report available to the ind ividual.

Any person collecting information on an individual for the purpose of compiling a personal report , must inform all informants of the purpose of the inquiry and the fact that the source of the information will be recorded and may be disclosed . The present Act requires the disclosure to a person of the source and nature of factual information contained in his report' but only the nature of any investigative informat ion contained in that report. The proposal would require the disclosure of the source and nature of either factual or investigative information .

The foregoing lists the major changes in the proposa l. It is realized that although almost all of these new provisions have been embodied in law in other jurisdictions , it is desirable that Manitobans have an opportunity to review them and consider their possible effect on the conduct of business in Manitoba. I am accordingly, Mr. Speaker, tabling this proposal and invite views , suggestions and criticisms between now and next November in order that a bill may be prepared for introduction during the 1979 session of the Legislature . MR. SPEAKER : The Honourable Leader of the Opposition . MR. SCHRE YER: Mr.

Speaker , my first reaction to the statement of intent here is that it would seem to be non-controversial enough . I think it is only log ical that after legislation that has been on the Statute Books here in Manitoba for approximately seven years now , which in the year of its ince ption or first passage may have been somewhatavant-garde has, with the mere passage of time , come into need of some updating and revision. That is certainly one point in and by itself that would argue for some support of revisions and amendments to The Personal Investigations Act .

A second reason would be that while we do not seek a narrow type of uniformity of law in our country, nevertheless in certain fields having to do with ground rules of consumer protection , protection against excessive snooping in terms of personal investigation , some protection against false information being perpetuated on files relative to individuals , that in these kinds of areas we do see merit in attempting to secure as much as possible , uniformity of law in our country , across the country, and that is yet a second reason for being posit ively inclined towards the general intent that was put forward here this morning .

So we look forward to the specifics and to an opportunity to look at them in detail. MR. SPEAKE R: Notices of Motion ... Introduction of Bills. ANNOUNCEMENT MR. SPEAKE R: Before we go to oral questions , I think I would like to make a statement to the House myself . Could I have a page, please? Last May , we announced in the Chamber here that there would be a contest carried out through the school system in the Province of Manitoba to recruit pages for the House of Commons program wuich the Federal Government announced through the Speaker , the Honourable Mr. Jerome .

We submitted, through my office, about a dozen students ' names who were subsequently interviewed , 5240

Wednesday, July 19, 1978 after an intense screening through the educational school system here in the Province of Manitoba , and yesterday I received a phone call from the office of the Speaker of the House of Commons , and I would like to report to the Chamber this morning that Mr. Marc Bose here has been selected as one of the pages for the new House of Commons Page Program for the coming year. I should also like to report that Mr. John Jones , who was the other page boy in the House , and who left here yesterday for an intense French immersion course in Montreal , was another one who was selected .

And the third student who was selected was Miss Susan Collier, who was a page girl in the House here last year . I think it speaks well for the system that we use in the Province of Manitoba for selecting page boys and page girls for our Chamber, that the House of Commons has chosen to do likewise, and those students who are highly recommended by their school system are given the opportunity of serving both in this House , and in this particular case , also in tue House of Commons . ORAL QUESTIONS MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for St. Boniface . MR. LAURENT L. DESJARDINS: Mr .

Speaker, I'm putting in a bid to be chosen as a page boy. Mr. Speaker , my question is to the Honourable Minister of Health . A few weeks ago , while we were looking at the Estimates of the Department, the written statement that the Minister gave us, as well as the statement that he made in answer to some of our questions made it clear that the new administration had approximately the same number of staff in the department as the former administration had , and the Minister asked us to recommend that we vote the money necessary to keep that staff.

A few weeks later, a statement by the document presented by the Minister of Labour stated that the number of staff had been reduced by over 300 in this department. Now, my question , Mr. Speaker, is, were the answers that were given by the Minister , false , or is the statement made by the Minister of Labour the one that is wrong , is misleading , to the House? I wonder if the Minister can explain the situation. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Health. HON. L.R. (Bud) SHERMAN (Fort Garry): Well, Mr.

Speaker, that question falls rather into the category of the question of asking me whether or not I've stopped beating the Minister of Labour . I would have to investigate the substance and the justification for the honourable member's question with respect to staffing totals , establishment totals in the Department of Health . To the best of my knowledge , Mr. Speaker, the information that I supplied to the honourable member and his colleagues opposite, throughout the Estimates process , was accurate and honest, and delivered with the best of intentions .

The establishment of the department was as specified in the figures I gave honourable members opposite at that time . I did indicate that we were targeting for a 10 percent vacancy rate in the Social Services , Community Operations Division of the department - there's been no alteration in that . MR. DESJARDINS: Mr. Speaker , I am pleased with the answer the Minister gave us. I had no doubt that he was giving us the correct information during the Estimates . I think that he did everything he could to co-operate , and I accept his answer now .

But I wonder now if the Minister of Labour can explain the situation and the statement that she made just a couple of weeks ago?. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Labour . HON. NORMA L. PRICE (Assiniboia): Mr. Speaker , the figures that I have been given by all the departments, and were compiled together through the Management Committee, are all - as far as I am aware - quite correct. MR. DESJARDINS: Well , Mr .

Speaker , maybe then I should ask the Minister of Finance to try to check into this and give the correct information to the members of this House as soon as possible , and also to the people of Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to ask a question to the Attorney-General. The Criminal Division of the Provincial Court was to be started in St. Boniface , and I wonder what the situation is now. Has that been changed? Is there a new policy , has there been a freeze, or is that still going on? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Attorney-General. 5241

Wednesday, July 19, 1978 HON. GERALD W.J. MERCIER (Osborne): Mr. Speaker , I'll accept that question as notice and enquire into that. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourab le Member for The Pas. MR. RONALD McBRYDE: Mr. Speaker , some time ago , I asked the Minister of Highways about the condition of Highway No. 327 into Easterville , and I wonder if he's able to answer that question yet. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Highways . HON. HARRY J. ENNS (Lakeside): Mr. Speaker ' not specifically ; I'd have to take that question as notice again .

I can only indicate to the honourable member that now that we are into the summer 's maintenance program , that I would assume that the regular maintenance of that particular road is improved from the time the honourable member asked me that question , but I'd have to ask the department for an up -date report. MR. McBRYDE: Yes, Mr. Speaker.

Since the time I asked that question , I believe that the Minister -: and the Premier have received a petition from the community as well as from the taxi operators in that community and I wonder if the Minister could also check whether there be any extra expenditures because there is upgrading necessary on the old

section of that road . MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Fort Rouge . MR. LLOYD AXWORTHY: Mr. Speaker , I have a question for the Minister responsible for fitness and sports . As the Minister probably noted in the latest trials for the Commonwealth Games , athletes from Manitoba failed to place any members on that team and althletes from Manitoba have now claimed that one of the reasons for it is the failure of the Provinc ial Government to provide proper support for athletes in Manitoba to provide proper training . MR. S PEAKER: Order please . Has the honourable member a question to ask? MR.

AXWORTHY: I'm coming to the question. I'm asking the Minister if, in view of the statements of athletes from this province that part of the failure of that is due to the Provincial Government's lack of support for training facilities and equipment , does the Minister intend to investigate the situation with the Amateur Sports Federation and find out exactly what the causes and reasons are for these kinds of failures? MR. SPEAKE R: The Honourable Minister of Health .3 MR. S HERMAN: Mr.

Speaker , the whole field of sport and preparation for sport , the ambition towards excellence in sport and the directions that we would be perhaps advised to take in this area is under review by a special Ministerial Committee under the Chairmanship of Mr. Jim Daly who is well know, I think , to all members of this House. That committee is scheduled to report to the government by the end of August and we will then have some conclusions and some recommendations on which we intend, or hope , to act in the coming year.

In terms of budgetary support , I think the Honourable Member for Fort Rouge would agree that , as indicated during my Estimates , there are substantial amounts of funds to be derived from lottery revenues that will be available for support for sport associations and development of athletes in the coming year, and in fact a major initiative in that direction was taken very recently with the award of sums of money to some 42 individual sport associations . MR. AXWORTHY: A supplementary , Mr. Speaker .

I would ask the Minister if this special Minister ial Task Force Report would take under adv isement the specific complaints and grievances registered by athletes in the province as a result of those latest trials and take a special look at that particular problem ; further, while awaiting the recommendations of tha t report, if the deficits now being experienced by the Manitoba Sports Federation would be made up by those lottery funds the Minister says are now in surplus and available . MR. SHERMAN : In response to the second question of the Honourable Member , Mr.

Speaker , my answer at this juncture would have to be no , there is no intent ion on our part for the taxpayers of Manitoba to make up the deficits of the Manitoba Sports Federation . What we have done is 5242

Wednesday , July 19, 1978 them with support that will enable them to keep operating through the next few months while the Ministerial Committee comes to its conclusions, but that is not funding, Mr. Speake r, tha t compensates for or takes care of any existing defic it. It's for ongoing operations . Their existin g deficit is in the neighbourhood of $50 ,000 or $60,000 and we're not addressing that. The answer to the first question of the Honourable Member would be yes, I will certainly discuss those conclusions and those criticisms with the Chairman of the special Ministerial Sport Committee. MR.

SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for St. Boniface. MR. DESJARDINS: Yes, I have a supplementary question to the Minister . The official advisory council of the Minister made some recommendation re the way to help the athletes competing in games. Has that been ignored completely while waiting for the report , the second unofficial, unauthorized committee? Because the first committee - as I said, the council was established by

an Act of this Legislature and they made recommendations. Has this been ignored? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Health. MR. SHERMAN: No, Mr. Speaker . MR. DESJARDINS: Then, Mr. Speaker , how come nothing was done in that w 've had the situation as reported by the Member for Fort Rouge. MR. SHERMAN: Well, Mr. Speaker , it's very difficult to control areas of anticipated criticism. There are some athletes, some persons in the sports community who feel that proper initiatives are not being taken .

There are others who are in agreement with the kinds of things that the Fitness and Amateur Sport Branch is doing . I don't suppose there will ever be a program in sport or any other field that satisfies all participants and all observers in that field . I've assured the Honourable Member for Fort Rouge that I will bring those concerns recently expressed to the attention of the Chairman of the Committee . No doubt they've already been brought to his attention but I'll check on that.

With respect to the preparation of athletes for the Canada Winter Games in 1979, there is an ongoing program supported by funds under that Branch for the preparation of those athletes. If athletes from Manitoba were not properly prepared for the Commonwealth Games ' trials, then I would suggest that that difficulty goes back a couple of years. You don 't prepare those athletes in six or eight months . MR. DESJARDINS: Mr.

Speaker , could the Minister then enumerate the programs that his department had, the Branch of Fitness and Amateur Sports, to help these athletes in the last months which are certainly very important before the competitions start? Of course you have to have some ability and some training , but what were the programs that his department were responsible for or financed? MR. SHERMAN: Well, Mr. Speaker, among others there was the special sports projects, there was the assistance to sports associations , there was the Man Plan Program for development of superior athletic capabilities .

Those programs were all discussed and reviewed in some detail during the examination of my Estimates . None of those programs have been scrapped or abandoned , they 're in place , and . . . MR. DESJARDINS: They were frozen we were told. MR. SHERMAN: No, they were in place and there is support MR. DESJARDINS: You were considering them. MR. SHERMAN: Well , there is support available in the coming year through the Estimates . MR. SPEAKER: Order please, Order please. May I suggest to the honourable members that if they wish to ask quest ions , at least they should have the courtesy to listen to the answers.

The Honourable Minister of Health . MR. DESJARDINS: I want the correct answers first. 5243

Wednesda y, July 19, 1978 MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Selkirk . MR. HOWARD PAWLEY: Mr. Speaker , a quest ion to the Atto rney-General. Can the Attorney-General confirm that he is withdrawing those portions of The Human Rights Act that is prese ntly before the Legislat ure dealing with the handicapped and pre-employment inquiries? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Attorney-General. MR. MERCIER : Yes, Mr. Speaker. MR. PAWLEY: Mr. Speaker , this is not a supplementary but a quest ion to the Mini ster of Highways .

Could the Mini ster of Highways give us an updat ing on the monitor ing that is presently taking place with respect to the introduction of the no-faul t automob ile insurance program in the Province of Quebec which the General Manager of Autopac had announced was taking place some two months ago? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Highways . MR. ENNS (Lakeside): Mr.

Speaker , in response to the Honourabl e Member for Selkirk , it will be my privilege to attend a transpo rtation conference in the Cit y of Quebec the latter part of Septem ber, during which time I have made arrangements to meet with some of the insurance people from the government program as it is being introduced and as it is working in Quebec , to provide myself with that updating .

There is no further information that I can give to the honourable member at thi s t ime other than those comments and that information which we received dur ing the meet ing of Crown insurance corporation managers that was held here in Winnipeg about a month ago . MR. SPEAKER: The Honour able Member for Selkirk . MR. PAWLEY: A supplementary , Mr. Speaker. Will the Minister of Highways be in a position after his meet ing in Septem ber to give Manitobans a report as to the progress that has taken place in respect to that program? . MR. ENNS: Mr. Speaker , it would be my hope to be able to do so.

Of greater concern is to ensure tha t Can adians, and Man itobans , travelling anywhere in Canada understand the different jur isdictions and the different princip les involving their insurance whenever they are mobile in this country . At the moment , there is some concern in this regard in the sense that the action taken by the Quebec Government differentiates somewhat substantially , particularly with respect to bodily injury claims that apply in the Province of Queb ec as compared to any and all other jurisdictions in the country. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourabl e Leader of the Opposition. MR. SCHREYER: Mr.

Speaker, to the Minister of Consumer Affa irs. In relat ion to the statement he made this mornin g with respect to a pos sible new Personal Investigations Act' the last paragraph of his state ment invi tes the submiss ion of views between now and November. I would like to ask the Minister whether he has in mind an intersessional committee to receive those views , or whether he is impl ying or suggestin g that such views be forwarded to the Ministry 's office, to his off ice? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister. MR. McGILL: Mr.

Speak er, in reply to the Lead er of the Opposition , I had in mind the latter course , that it was n ot the intentio n t o h ave an interses sional committee dealing with this matter , but rat her that it was an invitation to members and others to make submissions to my office for considerat ion in the eventual and final form of the bill. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourabl e Member for Brandon East. MR. LEONARD S. EVANS : Thank you , Mr. Speak er. I would like to address a quest ion to the Minister without Portfolio responsible for the Manitoba Housing and Renewal Corporat ion.

Can the Minister advise why the government , through MHRC , is selling 40 acres of land in the Crocus Plains area of the City of Brandon? 5244

.. Wednesday, July 19, 1978 MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister responsible for Housing. HON. J. FRANK JOHNSTON (Sturgeon Creek): Mr. Speaker, I would say that yes, we are selling the 40 acres of land and the reason why is we believe it will be developed and put into housing much faster than MHRC will be putting it in. MR. EVANS: This decision to sell part of the land bank in the City of Brandon, is it indicative of the government's policy -(Interjection)- Mr. Speaker, I am trying to ask a question but I am being interrupted by the Minister of Public Works . MR. SPEAKER: Order please .

May I suggest to the honourable member, if he would check Citation 171 of Beauchesne, he will find out that it is not in order to ask questions specifically of policy in that nature. Does the Honourable Member for Brandon East care to rephrase his question? MR. EVANS: Mr. Speaker, I didn't get an opportunity to get that far for anyone to find out whether I was asking a policy question or not.

My question to the Honourable Minister is whether this decision to sell the land means that the Government of Manitoba has abandoned the policy of the previous government to provide serviced lots at cost to the people of Brandon so that more families, particularly young families, are in a better position to afford housing? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister responsible for Housing. MR. JOHNSTON: At cost like in The Pas, Mr. Speaker, at $20,000 a lot? We don't intend to be into that type of thing. Mr. Speaker, the piece of property in Brandon has got to have some servicing done to it .

It will be done faster by other people other than ourselves because our plans are not to move on it, As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, as far back as the previous manager of MHRC, Mr. Gordon, recommended we get out of that property . MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Brandon East. MR. EVANS: Mr. Speaker, the Honourable Minister has clarified that for us. Mr. Speaker, I think if the Honourable Minister would check the records, he could find that it would be possible to provide serv iced lots at lower cost than what is going to happen now.

Will the Honourable Minister, through his Housing Corporation, be able to offer any policies to the people of the City of Brandon or indeed anywhere in this province , to enable people to afford housing at prices that are within their means to purchase? MR. JOHNSTON: As we previously announced, Mr. Speaker, we will be extending our program of second mortgages as we find that it is working properly. We are experimenting in Inkster and I announced that we will extend it as we get the kinks worked out and all of the services required to extend the program.

Unlike the previous government, we will not jump in with our eyes closed and do it without thinking . M. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Brandon East with a fourth question. MR. EVANS: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker . The policy announced for Inkster Gardens subdivision is a policy related to serviced land that is being offered by MHRC, so inasmuch as that policy is related to the sale of serviced land, my question is . . . MR. SPEAKER: Order please. Does the honourable member have a question to ask? MR.

EVANS: . .. my question is, how will the Honourable Minister be able to offer that kind of a deal to the people in the City of Brandon or indeed any other community in the province if it doesn't have serviced lots for sale, as in Inkster Gardens? MR. JOHNSTON: Mr . Speaker, I guess the member writes down his questions and he can't change his thoughts.

I explained to the member that the sale of that land was recommended by the Board of Directors and the previous manager of the Housing Corporation on the basis that it would probably develop for lots much faster than MHRC would, and I assure you that there will be lots available in there that if the developers want to build houses, that apply for our programs, they can. 5245

Wednesday, July 19, 1978 MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Leader of the Opposition . MR. SCHREYER: Mr. Speaker , I would like to ask the Minister responsible for the MHRC whether the Government of Canada still maintains, through the Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation , the program of making available to provinces and/or mun ici palities , the assembling of raw land for incorporation into provincial or municipal land holding to be ultimately services and made available either directly or indirectly to the lot and home-buying public? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister responsible for Housing . MR. JOHNSTON: Mr.

Speaker , if the Leader of the Opposition is referring to the program whereby CMHC makes available money to us to land bank , yes, that program is still availab le. While I'm on my feet, I would like to give the Leader of the Opposition some figures that I promised him quite a while ago , and I apolog ize fo r not giving him this sooner. The Province of Manitoba owns 4,586 acres. In Winnipeg we own 3,447; in non-Winnipeg we will own 1, 139. In Winnipeg within the Perimeter Highway , we own 3,136 and outside the Perimeter , 311 .

The joint land assembly that we have with the City, that has been discussed in the House, is 1 ,430. Mr. Speaker , there is an interesting figures also , that only approximately 500 acres of the total land that we own within the Perimeter Highway is insi de the Five-Year Planning Program of the City of Winnipeg for development. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Leader of the Opposit ion . MR. SCHREYER: Mr.

Speaker, with respect to land banking , which , if it is true land banking has a time horizon of much more than five years , I'd like to ask the Minister whether it is the inte ntion of the Province of Manitoba to avail itself of this national program to encourage land banking for the future , or whether the Province of Manitoba will , largely and generally speaking , not avail itself of this program insofar as future increments of raw land are concerned? . MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister responsible for Housing. MR. JOHNSTON: Mr.

Speaker , at the present time , the province is not intending to - or MHRC , I should say - land bank any further , because the Bellan report suggests that we have enough land at the present time and most of our land as far as Winnipeg is concerned is outside of the development area . At the present time we are not looking at any future purchases of land . MR. SCHREYER: Can the Minister indicate at this time , or would he take as notice , the following : the province does not have in mind any further invoking of the federal CMHC land banking program.

Can the Minister say whether it is the intention of the province, on the other hand , to divest itself of any of the land banked to date? To divest itself of said land in an undeveloped state? Or, is it the intention to hold this land in bank? MR. JOHNSTON: Mr. Speaker, I would take it as notice , but I would like to mention to the Leader of the Opposition that you must examine these from the point of view that we're paying interest every year , and you must examine them as to when they can be developed and how much interest we will end up paying . So that 's something that we are looking at very carefully . MR.

SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Wolseley . MR. ROBERT G. WILSON: Mr . Speaker , I have a question to the Minister of Public Works , and I raise this small item at the end of the question period because I've checked with security and I haven 't been able to get an answer. But ' would the Minister check with the former Minister of Public Works regarding what appears to be a missing grand piano from Room 200? I've had several monarchists and several music lovers approach me regarding the possibility of not being able to play "God Save the Queen " and other things at functions that may take place in that room .

MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Public Works . MR. ENNS: Mr. Speaker , I heard the item on the news last night, and it' s caused me great concern , and I'm pleased to report to the Honourable Member for Wolseley and to music lovers throughout the Province of Manitoba that the case of the missing piano has been solved . It's resting, peacefully, I hope , in a local storage firm - Hill Security , if I can name the name . It is a piano that originally was in what is now the Prov incial Archives Building . It was used , many of us will remember , dur ing 5246

Wednesday, July 19, 1978 the days of the Manitoba Musical Festival, for instance , and that's where the piano is. I will make some further enquiries as to further disposition of the piano . It's my belief that it perhaps ought to be restored or refurbished to its full grandeur and should indeed repose in Room 200 for such occasions as mentioned by the Honourable Member for Wolseley. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Leader of the Opposition . MR. SCHREYER: Mr. Speaker , I rise on a matter of privilege.

We are well aware that the Honourable Minister of Public Works and the Member for Wolseley both are men of culture; they need not flaunt it . MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Churchill. MR. JAY COWAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Northern Affairs and Renewable Resources and Transportation Services . Can the Minister indicate what, if any, progress has been made in regard to re-opening the Savage Island fish processing plant? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Northern Affairs . HON. KEN MacMASTER (Thompson): Mr .

Speaker, I at this point have sent a telegram to the Honourable Hugh Faulkner , expressing our very deep concern about the withdrawal of the federal funding for this particular fishing project. In addition to that, Mr. Speaker, I have been in touch with and communicated with the Fresh Fish Marketing Corporation in an effort to establish the possibilities, or investigate the possibilities of a different approach to the fishing industry in that particular area of the province. MR. COWAN: Thank you , Mr. Speaker .

Can the Minister then confirm that the transportation subsidy on cut or whitefish has been removed , thereby hampering fishing operations in that area to a further extent? MR. MacMASTER: I am not prepared to state that it's hampering the fishing in that particular area. That may be the approach that some are taking at that particular moment. What is hampering the fish ing industry in that particular area of the province is the withdrawal of federal funding to the treaty people who live there . Over 95 percent of the fishermen in that particular area are treaty Indians.

The Federal Government has totally supported that. They have been part of the provincial program, and the feds have at this particular time withdrawn their support for the particular industry in that area , and that is what's hampering it, and that's what stopped it. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Fort Rouge. MR. AXWORTHY: Mr. Speaker , I have a question for the Minister of Highways, and I suppose "High Culture.

" In determining the progress of the metrification of Manitoba's highways, can the Minister undertake to investigate why, on certain well-travelled highways - particularly in the tourist season - such as Highway 59, there's still a mixture of both mileage signs and metric signs which are causing some confusion for those who are travelling on those roads? MR. ENNS: Mr. Speaker, I'm aware that that is still the situation.

I think I made it plain at the time the changeover was announced, that the immediate signing changes would be those of the regulatory nature, that is, the speed limit signs, exits off highways, etc., that the further mileage indicator signs as to distances between communities, they would be changed when we get around to them. And quite frankly, we will have that situation with us perhaps for the next little while, several seasons . We are not going out destroying signs to change over to metric. We believe that we have done the important signing , that is, the speed regulatory signs, they have all been changed.

But it will be some time before the distance indicator signs between communities will all be changed and converted to the metrics . MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Fort Rouge. MR. AXWORTHY: Mr . Speaker , I didn't mean to raise such a controversial issue as mileage signs, but I realize that the fires run deep in this area. Could the Minister indicate, is the changeover to metrification of the speed regulation signs now completed, and does he indicate by his remarks that no further changes will then therefore be made for several years on the changing the mileage signs? 5247

Wednesday, July 19, 1978 MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Highways . MR. ENNS: Mr. Speaker , I could give the honourable member the information if I went back to the department. We change a substantial nuer of signs yearly in our regular maintenance program , and it's our intention not to alte r that program a great deal.

I think we probably change 10 or 15 or 20 percent of the signs every year , just by fact of age and as part of our regular maintenance program , and we have not set aside specific funds other than those that were , of course, very necessary to highway travel , an indication of speeding regulations on highwa y travel. So it could well be a number of years before the last vintage of " miles per hour " signs are totally wiped off the landscape of Man itoba. MR. AXWORTHY: Mr . Speaker , I have a question for the Minister of Education on the same subject.

Considering that the Province of Ontario , and I believe two other provinces , will begin this fall using the metric system as the major form of the use of teaching of mathematics in the elementary and public schools, can the Minister indicate what the schedu le or timetable is for Manitoba schools for the changeover to metrificat ion as the major means of teaching mathematics and arithmetic in our schools ? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Education. HON. KEITH A. COSENS (Gimli): Mr.

Speaker , to my knowledge , this process has been going on for about the last three or four years , and I expect , without checking closely , that as far as mathematics is concerned, the complete conversion has taken place through textbooks that use the metric system . MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Brandon East. MR. EVANS: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the Honourable Minister of Labour will be able to table her report today , as promised yesterday , on the matter of lead poisoning . MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Labour . MRS. PRICE: Yes, I will , Mr . Speaker . MR.

SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for The Pas. MR. McBRYDE: Mr. Speaker , just a question to the Minister of Highways arising from the questions from the Member for Fort Rouge . I wonder if the Minister could report the progress being made in the metrification of signs that he is ramming down the throats of the people in the Rock Lake constituency? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Highways . MR. ENNS: Well, Mr. Speaker , I think about now I have a legitimate personal matter of grievance or privilege .

First of all, my culture or lack of culture activities have been quest ioned , and now it is suggested that I am ramming something down somebody 's throat. I might just say that there has been some consideration given to create an Outdoors Markmanship Award fo r those who continue to deface highway signs . If they should choose to deface some of the " miles per hour " signs faster, then I suppose we'll get rid of those signs faster . No, there 's no program invo lved of ramming down anything down anybody's throat.

If anything , I suppose , it was a quest ion of us reluctant to respond to that kind of an attitude that the Federal Government displa ys from time to time . MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Kildonan . MR. PETER FOX: Mr . Speaker , before we proceed , I'd like to announce a change on Law Amendments , the Honourable Member for Rupertsland to be taken off and the Honourable Member for Churchill be placed thereon. s MR. SPEAKER: Is that agreeable? (Agreed) The Honourable Minister of Highways . 5248

Wednesday, July 19, 1978 MR. ENNS: Mr. Speaker , I wonder , j ust before members disperse , if I can give some indicat ion as to a hopeful schedu le with respect to the day. We would continue our business in the Chamber this morning, then come back to the Chaer as we did yesterday to adjourn the House. Upon coletion of our

schedule this morning , we would be calling Municipal Affairs Committee to deal with matters before that committee ; at 2:30 it would be the intention to call Law Amendments to deal with matters before that committee; and hopefully be able to report progress and call the House at 8:00 for further resumption of our affairs. MR. SPEAKER: Order please. May I seek further advice of the Acting Honourable Government House Leader? Is it the intention to call the House into session at 2:30, or call committee at 2:30? MR. ENNS: Mr.

Speaker , I suppose we could leave it flexible, but the indication seems to be that we have enough work before us in Law Amendments Committee , and with that large committee sitting , it would not be the intention of calling the House at 2:30. We would call the House at 8 o'clock , Sir, and see how we're making out. Okay? With those informal guidelines, let's proceed with the business of the day by calling Bill No. 71, which I appreciate is standing in the name of the Honourable Member for Inkster , but there seems to be some disposition to deal with this bill so we can get to Law Amendments this afternoon . MR.

SPEAKER: The Honourable Leader of the Opposition . MR. SCHREYER: Mr. Speaker, Bill 71, The Statute Law Amendments, is indeed standing in the name of my colleague, the Member for Inkster, but upon perusal of the bill which was circulated only yesterday, it would seem to be in the most routine sense a Statute Law Amendments bill. It is one, Sir , which we cannot feel easy about agreeing to that quickly, but on the other hand, Sir, it is in committee stage, clause by clause, that the substance will have to be explored. As I see this 30-page or 31-page bill, it would seem that literally every

section of the bill deals with a separate piece of statute law, and I can't see how it can get any better treatment in general principle debate stage than it can in committee stage detailed clause by clause. I would ask that the Attorney-General , if he hasn't already done so, perhaps take under note for the next time, that in dealing with an omnibus statute, scattered bill of this kind, that a set of explanatory notes ... -(Interjection)- You have those. Well, great minds think alike, I guess. Well, Sir, on that basis then, my only comment would be that we go through it

section by

section in committee rather than attempt to debate it here. MR. SPEAKER: Are you ready for the question? e QUESTION put, MOTION carried. The Honourable Acting Government House Leader. MR. ENNS: Mr. Speaker, will you call Bill No. 45. MR. SPEAKER: Bill 45 - on the proposed motion of the Honourable Minister of Finance. The Honourable Leader of the Opposition . MR. SCHREYER: I had a conversation with respect to Bill 45 with the Government House Leader, and if it is all the same to the honourable gentlemen opposite, I'd like to have it stand until the next sitting . MR.

SPEAKER: Is it the intention to go into Committee of the Whole House? The Honourable Acting Government House Leader. MR. ENNS: Mr. Speaker, I believe that that dispenses with the business of the House at this moment. I would ask, Mr. Speaker, that you now leave the Chair, and we will be back at 12:30 to adjourn the House. In the meantime, we will deal with the matters before the Municipal Affairs Committee in Room 254. MR. SPEAKER: The House is now in recess , and will return at the call of the Chair. IN SESSION 5249

Wednesday, July 19, 1978 MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Rhineland . MR. ARNOLD BROWN: I wish to present the third report of the Standing Committee on Municipal Affairs . MR. CLERK: Your Committee met on July 19, 1978, and heard representation from Mr. M. Prince with respect to Bill No. 52,

An Act to amend The City of Winnipeg Act . Your Committee has considered Bills : No. 52

An Act to amend The City of Winnipeg Act. No. 54 -

An Act to amend The Municipal Assessment Act and The City of Winnipeg Act. No. 56 -

An Act to amend The Planning Act. And has agreed to report the same with certain amendments. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourab81e Member for Rhineland . MR. BROWN: I beg to move , seconded by the Member for St. James , that the report of the Committee be received . MOTION presented and carried. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Acting Government House Leader . MR. ENNS: Mr. Speaker, prior to moving adjournment of the House at this time , I would simply want to remind members that Law Amendments Committee will be sitting this afternoon and the House will resume sitting at 8 o'clock tonight.

With that understood , I move , seconded by the Honourable Minister of Finance , that the House do now ad journ. MR. SPEAKER: Order please . We have a motion of adjournment which is ... The Honourable Member for Lac du Bonnet on a point of order . MR. USKIW: WEll, I just wanted to make the point , Mr. Chairman , that in the event that the committee does not take a great deal of time , it may be a waste of a whole afternoon if we're not in the position to reconv ene in the House, that's all. MOTION presented and carried and the House adjourned until 8:00 p.m. 5250

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	31-2-97
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	31st 2nd hansardpdf 97.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	2e1a4f1c44322f54d669eeba6c8ecf16ad6cf864

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