Manitoba Hansard — 29 July 2013 (Sitting 82, 40th Legislature, 2nd Session)

40-2-82

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session - Fortieth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Daryl Reid Speaker Vol. LXV No. 82 - 1:30 p.m., Monday, July 29, 2013 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Fortieth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital NDP ALLUM, James Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson NDP BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli NDP BLADY, Sharon Kirkfield Park NDP BRAUN, Erna Rossmere NDP BRIESE, Stuart Agassiz PC CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East NDP CHIEF, Kevin, Hon. Point Douglas NDP CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan NDP CROTHERS, Deanne St.

James NDP CULLEN, Cliff Spruce Woods PC DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk NDP DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FRIESEN, Cameron Morden-Winkler PC GAUDREAU, Dave St. Norbert NDP GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Liberal GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC HOWARD, Jennifer, Hon. Fort Rouge NDP IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Richmond NDP JHA, Bidhu Radisson NDP KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Swan River NDP LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. Dawson Trail NDP MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St.

Johns NDP MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden PC MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor, Hon. Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel NDP MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East PC NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake NDP OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River NDP PALLISTER, Brian Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PETTERSEN, Clarence Flin Flon NDP REID, Daryl, Hon. Transcona NDP ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Kewatinook NDP RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia NDP ROWAT, Leanne Riding Mountain PC SARAN, Mohinder The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron St. Paul PC SELBY, Erin, Hon. Southdale NDP SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St.

Boniface NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo PC STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin NDP SWAN, Andrew, Hon. Minto NDP WHITEHEAD, Frank The Pas NDP WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WIGHT, Melanie Burrows NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC Vacant Morris

3767 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Monday, July 29, 2013 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Mr. Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom, and know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen. Good afternoon, everyone. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Mr.

Speaker: Seeing no bills, we'll move on to– PETITIONS Applied Behaviour Analysis Services Mr. Dennis Smook (La Verendrye) : I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The provincial government broke a commitment to support families of children with a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder, including timely diagnosis and access to necessary treatment such as applied behavioural analysis, also known as ABA services.

(2) The provincial government did not follow its own policy statement on autism services which notes the importance of early intervention for children with autism.

(3) School learning services has its first ever waiting list which started with two childr en. The waiting list is projected to keep growing and to be in excess of 20 children by September 2013. Therefore, these children will go through the biggest transition of their lives without receiving ABA services that has helped other children achieve huge gains.

(4) The provincial government has adopted a policy to eliminate ABA services in schools by grade 5 despite the fact that these children have been diagnosed with autism which still requires therapy. These children are being denied access –necessary ABA services that will allow them to –access to the same educational opportunities as any other Manitoban.

(5) Waiting lists and denials of treatment are unacceptable. No child should be denied access or–to or eliminated from eligibility for ABA services if their need still exists. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Education consider funding available to eliminate the current waiting list for ABA school- age services and fund ABA services fo r individuals diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder. This petition is signed by S. Turner, G. Webb. R. Stefanyshyn and many more fine Manitobans. Mr.

Speaker: In accordance with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to have been received by the House. Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Yes, good afternoon, Mr. Speaker. I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The provincial government broke a commitment to support families of children with a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder, including timely diagnosis and access to necessary treatment such as applied behavioural analys is, also known as ABA services.

(2) The provincial government did not follow its own policy statement on autism services which notes the importance of early intervention for children with autism.

(3) The preschool waiting list for ABA services has reached its high est level ever with at least 56 children waiting for services. The number is expected to exceed 70 children by September 2013 despite commitments to reduce the waiting list and provide timely access to services.

(4) The provincial government policy of eliminating ABA services in schools by grade 5 has caused many children in Manitoba to age out of the window for this very effective ABA treatment because of a lack of access. Many more children are

3768 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 29, 2013 expected to age out because of a lack of available treatment spaces.

(5) Waiting lists and denials of treatment are unacceptable. N o child should be denied access or age out of eligibility for ABA services. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Family Services and Labour consider making funding available to address the current waiting list for ABA services. And, Mr. Speaker, this is –petition is signed by T. Cobbett, I. Cottrell, G. Kolt and many other Manitobans. St. Ambroise Beach Provincial Park Mr. Ian Wishart (Portage la Prairie): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.

And these are the reasons for this petition: The St. Ambroise provincial park was hard hit by the 2011 flood, resulting in the park's ongoing closure, the loss of local access to Lake Manitoba, as well as untold harm to the ecosystem and wildlife in the region. The park's closure is having a negative impact on many areas, including disruptions to local tourism, hunting and fishing operations, diminished economic and emplo yment opportunities and the potential loss of the local store and a decrease in property values. Local residents and visitors alike want St.

Ambroise provincial park to be reopened as soon as possible. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the appropriate ministers of the provincial government consider repairing St. Ambroise provincial park and its access points to their preflood conditions so the park can be reopened for the 2013 season or earlier if possible. This pet ition signed by S. Hoeppner, K. Antonawich and J. Grant and many, many more fine Manitobans. Provincial Road 520 Renewal Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

And these are the reasons for this petition:

(1) The rural municipalities of Lac du Bonnet and Alexander are experiencing record growth due especially to an increasing number of Manitobans retiring in cottage country.

(2) The population in the RM of Lac du Bonnet grows exponentiall y in the summer months due to increased cottage use.

(3) Due to population growth, Provincial Road 520 experiences heavy traffic, especially during the summer months.

(4) PR 520 connects cottage country to the Pinawa Hospital and as such is frequently used by emergency medical services to transport patients.

(5) PR 520 is in such poor condition that there are serious concerns about its safety. We petition the Legislative Assembly as follows: To urge the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation to recognize the serious safety concerns of Provincial Road 520 and take to address its poor condition by prioritizing its renewal. This petition is signed by M. Adams, R. Lentner, D. Longsnoot and many, many more fine Manitobans. * (13:40) Applied Behaviour Analysis Services Mrs. Leanne Rowat (Riding Mountain): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.

The background to this petition is as follows: The provincial government broke a commitment to support families of children with the diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder, including timely diagnosis and access to necessary treatment such as applied behavioural analysis, also known as ABA services. The provincial government did not follow its own policy statement on autism services which notes the importance of early intervention for children with autism. The preschool waiting list for ABA services has reached its high est level ever with at least 56 children waiting for services.

That number is expected to exceed 70 children by September 2013 despite commitments to reduce the waiting list and provide timely access to services.

July 29, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3769 The provincial government 's policy of eliminating ABA services in schools by grade 5 has caused many children in Manitoba to age out of the window for this effective ABA treatment because of a lack of access. Many more children are expected to age out because of a lack of available treatment spaces. Waiting lists and denials of treatment are unacceptable. No child should be denied access to or age out of eligibility for ABA services.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Family Services and Labour consider funding–making funding available to address the current wait -list for A BA services. This pet ition's signed by W. LeBlanc, B. Drakerovic, K. Givden and many, many more Manitobans. Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Midland): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

The background to this petition is as follows: The provincial government broke a commitment to support families of children with a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder, including timely diagnosis and access to necessary treatment such as applied behavioural analysis, also known as ABA services. The provincial government did not follow its own policy statement on autism services which notes the importance of early intervention for children with autism. School learning services has its first ever waiting list which started with two children.

The waiting list is projected to keep growing and be in excess of 20 children by September 2013. Therefore, these children will go through the biggest transition of their lives without receiving ABA services that has helped other children achieve huge gains. The provincial government has adopted a policy to eliminate ABA services in schools by grade 5 despite the fact that these children have been diagnosed with autism which still requires therapy. These children are being denied necessary ABA services that will provide them access to the same educational opportunities as any other Manitoban.

Waiting lists and denials of treatment are unacceptable. No child should be denied access to or eliminated from eligibility for ABA services if their need still exists. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Education consider making funding available to eliminate the current waiting list for ABA school -age services and fund ABA services for individuals diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder. And this petition is signed by P. Linklater, L. Oughton, J. Pattison and many more fine Manitobans. Provincial Sales Tax Increase–Referendum Mrs.

Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. These are the reasons for this petition: The provincial government promised not to raise taxes in the last election. Through Bill 20, the provincial government wants to increase the retail sales tax, known as the PST, by one point without the legally required referendum. An increase to the PST is excessive taxation that will harm Manitoba families. Bill 20 strips Manitobans of their democratic right to determine when major tax increases are necessary.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to not raise the PST without holding a provincial referendum. And this is signed by P. Brooks, T. Buck, J. Eviksen and many others. Applied Behaviour Analysis Services Mr. Cliff Cullen (Spruce Woods): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

The background to this petition is as follows: The provincial government broke a commitment to support families of children with a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder, including timely diagnosis and access to necessary treatment such as applied behavioural analysis, also known as ABA services.

3770 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 29, 2013 The provincial government did not follow its own policy statement on autism services which notes the importance of early intervention for children with autism. School learning services has its first ever waiting list which started with two children. The waiting list is projected to keep growing and to be in excess of 20 children by September 2013. Therefor e, these children will go through the biggest transition of their lives without receiving ABA services that has helped other children achieve huge gains.

The provincial government has adopted a policy to eliminate ABA services in schools by grade 5 despite the fact that these children have been diagnosed with autism which still requires therapy. These children are being denied necessary ABA services that will allow them access to the same educational opportunities as any other Manitoban. Waiting lists an d denials of treatment are unacceptable. No child should be denied access to or eliminated from eligibility for ABA services if their need still exists.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Education consider making funding available to eliminate the current waiting list for ABA school -age services and fund ABA services for individuals diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder. This petition is signed by R. Panliho, J. Del Rosann, J. Kulbacki and m any other fine Manitobans. Provincial Sales Tax Increase–Referendum Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker. I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. These are the reasons for this petition:

(1) The provincial government promised not to raise taxes in the last election.

(2) Through Bill 20, the provincial government wants to increase the retail sales tax, known as the PST, by one point without the legally required referendum.

(3) An increase t o the PST is excessive taxation that will harm Manitoba families.

(4) Bill 20 strips Manitobans of their democratic right to determine when major tax increases are necessary. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to not raise the PST without holding a provincial referendum. This petition's submitted on behalf of T. Hurley, C. Hurley, D. Gordon and many other fine Manitobans. Applied Behaviour Analysis Services Mrs. Heather Stef anson (Tuxedo): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And the background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The provincial government broke a commitment to support families of children with a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder, including timely diagnosis and access to necessary treatment such as applied behavioural analysis, also known as ABA services.

(2) The provincial government did not follow its own policy statement on autism services which notes the importance of early intervention for children with autism.

(3) The preschool waiting list for ABA services has reached its high est level ever with at least 56 children waiting for services. That number is expected to exceed 70 children by September 2013 despite the commitments to reduce the waiting list and provide timely access to services.

(4) The provincial government policy of eliminating ABA services in schools by grade 5 has caused many children in Manitoba to age out of the window for this very effective AB A treatment because of a lack of access. Many more children are expected to age out because of a lack of available treatment spaces.

(5) Waiting lists and denials of treatment are unacceptable. No child should 'be nied' access to or age out of eligibility for ABA services. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Family Services and Labour consider making funding available to address the current waiting list for ABA services.

July 29, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3771 And, Mr. Speaker, this pet ition is signed by K. Menard, L. Epp, B. Hilton and many, many other Manitobans. (13:50) Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur- Virden): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The provincial government broke a commitment to support families of children with a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder, including timely diagnosis and access to necessary treatment such as applied behavioural analys is, also known as ABA services.

(2) The provincial government did not follow its own policy statement on autism services which notes the importance of early intervention for children with autism.

(3) The preschool waiting list for ABA services has reached its high est le vel ever with at least 56 children waiting for services. That number is expected to exceed 70 children by September 2013 despite commitments to reduce the waiting list and provide timely access to services.

(4) The provincial government policy of eliminating ABA services in schools by grade 5 has caused many children in Manitoba to age out of the window for this very effective ABA treatment because of a lack of access. Many more children are expected to age out because of a lack of available treatment spaces.

(5) Waiting lists and denials of treatment are unacceptable. No child should be denied access to or age out of eligibility for ABA services. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Family Service s and Labour consider making funding available to address the current waiting list for ABA services. And, Mr. Speaker, this petition is signed by K. McRae, M. McRae, D. McRae and many, many others. Mr. Stuart Briese (Agassiz): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. And these are the reasons for this petition.

The provincial government broke a commitment to support families of children with a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder, including timely diagnosis and access to necessary treatment such as applied behavioural analysis, also known as ABA services. The provincial government did not follow its own policy statement on autism services which notes the importance of early intervention for children with autism. The preschool waiting list for ABA services has reached its highest level ever with at least 56 children waiting for services.

That number is expected to exceed 70 children by September 2013 despite commitments to reduce the waiting list and provide timely access for services. The provincial government policy of eliminating ABA services in schools by grade 5 has caused many children in Manitoba to age out of the window for this very effective ABA treatment because of lack of access. Many more children are expected to age out because of lack of available treatment spaces. Waiting lists and denials of treatment are unacceptable. No child should be denied access to or age out of eligibility for ABA services.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Family Services and Labour consider making funding available to address the current waiting list for ABA services. This petition is signed by A. Axelrod, L. Roy, P. Moldowan and many, many othe r fine Manitobans. Mrs. Bonnie Mitchelson (River East): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. And the background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The provincial government broke a commitment to support fam ilies of children with a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder, including timely diagnosis and access to necessary treatment such as applied behavioural analysis, also known as ABA services.

(2) The provincial government did not follow its own policy statement on autism services which notes the importance of early intervention for children with autism.

3772 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 29, 2013

(3) School learning services has its first ever wait-list which started with two children. The waiting list is projected to keep growing and to be in excess of 20 children by September 2013. Therefore, these children will go through the biggest transition of their lives without receiving ABA services that has helped other children achieve huge gains.

(4) The provincial government has adopted a policy to e liminate ABA services in schools by grade 5 despite the fact these children have been diagnosed with autism which still requires therapy. These children are being denied necessary ABA services that will allow them to access the same educational opportunities as any other Manitoban.

(5) Waiting lists and denials of treatment are unacceptable. No child should be denied access to or eliminated from eligibility for ABA services if their need still exists. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Education consider making funding available to eliminate the current waiting list for ABA school -age services and fund ABA services for individuals diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder. And this petition is s igned by H. Lundberg, A. Albers, D. Gebreezgiand and many other fine Manitobans. Mr.

Reg Helwer (Brandon West): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background for this petition is as follows:

(1) The provincial government broke a commitment to support families of children with a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder, including timely diagnosis and access to necessary treatment such as applied behavioural analysis, also known as ABA services.

(2) The provincial government did not follow its own policy statement on autism services which notes the importance of early intervention for children with autism.

(3) The preschool waiting list for ABA services has reached its high est level ever with at lea st 56 children waiting for services. That number is expected to exceed 70 children by September 2013 despite commitments to reduce the waiting list and provide timely access to services.

(4) The provincial government policy of eliminating ABA services in schools by grade 5 has caused many children in Manitoba to age out of the window for this very effective ABA treatment because of a lack of access. Many more children are expected to age out because of a lack of available treatment spaces.

(5) Waiting lis ts and denials of treatment are unacceptable. No child should be denied access to or age out of eligibility for ABA services. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Family Services and Labour consider making funding available to address the current waiting list for ABA services. Signed by A. Urasy, T. Jenner and D. Szabo and many other fine Manitobans. Mr. Ron Schuler (St. Paul): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petiti on to the Leg islative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The provincial government broke a commitment to support families of children with a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder, including timely diagnosis and access to necessary treatment such as applied behavioural analysis, also known as ABA services.

(2) The provincial government did not follow its own policy statement on autism services which notes the importance of early intervention for children with autism.

(3) The preschool waiting list for ABA services has reached its high est level ever with at least 56 children waiting for services. That number is expected to exceed 70 children by September 2013 despite commitments to reduce the waiting list and provide timely access to services.

(4) The provincial government policy of eliminating ABA services in schools by grade 5 has caused many children in Manitoba to age out of the window for this very effective ABA treatment because of a lack of access. Many more children are expected to age out of–age out because of a lack of available treatment spaces.

(5) Waiting lists and denials of treatment are unacceptable. No child should be denied access to or age out of eligibility for ABA services.

July 29, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3773 We petition the Legislative Assem bly of Manitoba as follows: * (14:00) To request that the Minister of Family Services and Labour consider making funding available to address the current waiting list for ABA services. This is signed by L. Delaloye, P. Grumbo, M. Dyck and many, many other Manitobans. Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker. I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.

And the background to this petition is as follows: The provincial government broke a commitment to support families of children with a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder, including timely diagnosis and access to necessary treatment such as applied behavioural analysis, also known as ABA services.

(2) The provincial government did not follow its own policy statement on autism services which notes the importance of early intervention for children with autism.

(3) The preschool waiting list for ABA services has reached its high est level ever with at least 56 children waiting for services. That num ber is expected to exceed 70 children by September 2013 despite commitments to reduce the waiting list and provide timely access to services.

(4) The provincial government 's policy of eliminating ABA services in schools by grade 5 has caused many children in Manitoba to age out of the window for this very effective ABA treatment because of a lack of access. Many more children are expected to age out because of a lack of avail able treatment spaces.

(5) Waiting lists and denial of treatment are unacceptable. No child should be denied access to or age out of eligibility for ABA services. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Family Services and Labour consider making funding available to address the current waiting list for ABA services. And this petition is signed by D.L. Stregger, M. Stregger and E. Poschuer and many, many more fine Manitobans. Mr. Cameron Friesen (Morden -Winkler): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative. And the background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The provincial government broke a commitment to support families of children with a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder, including timely diagnosis and access to necessary treatment such as applied behavioural analysis, also known as ABA services.

(2) The provincial government did not follow its own policy statement on autism services which notes the importance of early intervention for children with autism.

(3) School learning services has its first ever waiting list which started with two childr en. The waiting list is projected to keep growing and to be in excess of 20 children by September 2013. Therefore, these children will go through the biggest transition of their lives without receiving ABA services that has helped other children achieve huge gains.

(4) The provincial government has adopted a policy to eliminate ABA services in schools by grade 5 despite the fact that these children have been diagnosed with autism which still requires therapy. These children are being denied necessary ABA services that will allow them access to the same educational opportunities as any other Manitoban.

(5) Waiting lists and denials of treatment are unacceptable. No child should be denied access to or eliminated from eligibility for ABA services if their need still exists. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Education consider making funding available to eliminate the current waiting list for ABA school -age services and fund ABA services for indivi duals diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder. And this petition is signed by N. Majury, J. Majury, J. Majury and many, many others. TABLING OF REPORTS Hon.

Jim Rondeau (Minister charged with the administration of The Liquor Control Act ): Mr. Speaker, I 'm pleased to table the 2012- 2013 Manitoba Liquor Control Commission annual report.

3774 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 29, 2013 Mr. Speaker: Any further tabling of reports? Seeing none– Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Prior to oral questions, I'd like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us today representatives from ANAVET S Assiniboia Unit No. 283, Hayden Kent, Gord Kent and Syd Stamper, who are the guests of the honourable member for Kirkfield Park (Ms. Blady). On behalf of honourable members, we welcome you here today. ORAL QUESTIONS Bill 18 Ministerial Conduct Mr. Brian Pallister (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr.

Speaker, each and every one of us here knows that we have to hone our listening skills. We have to work at it and it's not always easy. The Education Minister, I would particularly offer to the House, needs to work on her listening skills when it comes to Bill 18. First of all, she was not listening at all. Then she said she'd listen in the fall, and on March 6th she made a comment to the media that she would not accept amendments. She said she had the perfect bill in Bill 18. That's not listening.

That's not respectful of the process that we use here to develop the best possible legislative solutions to problems. Then when we announced our process of consultating–consulting, I'm sorry –with Manitobans, she said she would consult too, but in the fall after the bill had been dealt with. Well, that may or may not be the case, but it certainly evidences her lack of listening skills. Now, Manitobans care deeply about their children and Manitobans have thoughts on this bill, great ideas, and many of those Manitobans want to bring those solutions to this House to make the bill better.

Will the Premier ensure that his minister is listening, or is he not listening either? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Well, Mr. Speaker, this is a really timely subject. Again, and at the Council of the Federation or the meeting of the premiers, all the premiers across the country are very supportive of these types of initiatives to reduce bullying in every jurisdiction in Canada, particularly an emphasis on prevention. And I can only say to the Leader of the Opposition, when it comes to listening, we've called the bill seven times. We'd like to hear the people that would like to present on it.

The opposition's blocking that. Let's get on with hearing the bill. Mr. Pallister: The Premier said on Friday, it was quoted in the newspaper on Saturday: We want our schools to be safe places where people are treated with respect and have a good atmosphere for learning. End quote. Good comment– good comment–and we agree–and we agree. Yet on April 25th the Education Minister went on CBC radio and labelled members on this side of the House homophobic –homophobic. Now, that is insulting. That is callous. That is rude. That is disrespectful. It is slur, and excoriating those you disagree with is not respectful.

This kind of behaviour does not create a good atmosphere for learning. Does the Premier condone the bullying tactics of his Education Minister, or will he reprimand her for her shameful bullying behaviour? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, the only derogatory comments that have been heard in this Legislature have come from the Leader of the Opposition, who then flat-out denied them. We've called the bill seven times. The bill's been in front of the Legislature for eight months. There's many dozens if not hundreds of people that would like to speak to the bill.

It's a very important improvement that we need to make in the values that we all hold in this province about how treat –people are treated in schools and their right to be in a school in a safe environment, a learning environment where they can be respected and have all of their energies devoted to their school studies, not feeling that they're being picked on or discriminated against because of how they look or who they are. These kinds of things are long overdue. We've seen some real tragedies across the country because of a lack of respect for people th at have differences and different orientations.

It's time to move on this. It's been eight months. I say to the Leader of the Opposition, the bill's been called seven times, let's get on with hearing the bill and resolving this and moving forward in Manitoba. Right now –we started with the Safe Schools legislation just nearly a decade ago. We brought in additional measures and additional guidelines. If the members keep holding up the bill,

July 29, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3775 we'll start to lose our place as being a leader on this in the country. Mr. Pallister: The Premier's top priority has been and continues to be fleecing Manitobans of their dollars without their permission. We want and all of us should want an antibullying strategy that works. This bill will not work. It is conceivable it may even make the problems facing our students, teachers and administrators worse than they are today. And a respectful debate could help achieve a better bill, but the government does not want one.

Its 'minist'–its own minister has said it doesn't–she does not want one. She does not want amendments to come forward. * (14:10) Listening could help. This government is not about listening. Most of all, if they won't listen to us or students or teachers or parents or committee witnesses, they will not learn. They did not listen on the PST bill. The Premier did not dignify anyone with a response or attentiveness, nor will they do it on this bill, I'm afraid. Now this Premier claims that he wants to foster a safe learning environment.

Why is he unwilling to cultivate such a safe learning environment in this Chamber? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, we've had –we've introduced the bill in the Legislature. It's been there for well over eight months. There are dozens if not hundreds of people that want to speak to it. It's the members of the opposition who do not want to listen to Manitobans on this bill; we'd like to listen to them. Let's call the bill today, Mr. Speaker. Let's get on with hearing the members of the bill. Let's have a unanimous resolution coming out of this Legislature to support the bill.

The members are sitting on the fence trying to have it both ways. If they really want to move on antibullying, let's get on with the bill. Manitoba Hydro Confidential Document Recovery Mr. Ron Schuler (St. Paul): Mr. Speaker, last week 15 questions were asked from the –of the Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro about a secret top– top secret document that was leaked by Manitoba Hydro. He's now had the weekend to try to figure out if all of those top secret documents have been returned. Can he assure Manitobans that these top secret documents that were leaked by Manitoba Hydro, that they've all been returned?

Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Hydro Act ): Mr. Speaker, the so -called top secret documents that came out in October of last year and a letter that went to the particular community asking for the return of those documents, I've been advised by the president of Hydro that all those documents, which were the dated, revised forecasts for Hydro, had been returned to Hydro. And the member's attempt to make politics out of every single issue that involves that particular community and all communities has failed again. Mr. Schuler: Well, again the minister is wrong, Mr.

Speaker. Byron Williams said that he had a copy of the document. He made a copy for the Public Utilities Board and retained a copy. Again, my question to the minister is: This top secret document, what calls –which could call into question $20 billion of construction, can the minister assure all Manitobans, have all of those documents been returned? Mr. Chomiak : Mr. Speaker, very rarely do I hear members opposite care a hoot about the $20 billion that we're spending to make sure Manitoba has energy and the lowest energy costs going in the future. The member referenced a letter in October of last year.

I'm advised that the president of Manitoba Hydro, that that letter to that community, had seen all of the documents returned. With respect to the documents, they're dated. They're going to be up–revised and updated, Mr. Speaker. And they're going to be all presented to the NFAT panel that's going to review that project that the members opposite want to oppose, and they're going to give an opinion as to whether or not we should go forward with that particular project. But I'll tell you, Mr.

Speaker, we intend to have the cleanes t energy going in the future, the lowest cost going into the future, and if members opposite had their way, we would cancel all of those projects

3776 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 29, 2013 and it wouldn't matter what letters went out to anybody. Mr. Schuler: And once again the minister has it totally wrong. In fact, last week Hydro spokesman Glenn Schneider flatly disagreed Wednesday with Williams' downplaying of the risk facing the Crown corporation if the leaked information became public. That's a direct quote, Mr. Speaker.

And I'd like to as k the minister again that these documents, which could harm $20 billion of construction, that are floating out there, can the minister assure this Legislature and can he assure all Manitobans that all of those copies have been returned? Yes or no? Mr. Ch omiak: Mr. Speaker, the member cited a document in October. The president of Hydro has indicated to me in a letter that in fact all of those documents that went to TCN had been returned, and I'm happy to table that letter. The president of Hydro also sai d that no harm has come from the release of those documents. Further, Mr.

Speaker, the member starts talking about documents. All of those documents that are going to be updated are going to go to the panel that's reviewing Keeyask, that's reviewing Cona wapa, and public presentations are going to be taking place on that. So not only is the PUB going to review it, NFAT's going to review it; the public's going to have a chance to review it. And then we'll –a chance to show why it's so important that we will build hydro and won't cancel it and mothball it like members did to Conawapa before and like they've done to every single hydro project. They've built nothing in hydro.

We intend to build hydro into the future for Manitobans and all Canadians and keep the prices the lowest in the country, Mr. Speaker. Child and Family Services Ministerial Accountability Mrs. Leanne Rowat (Riding Mountain): Good afternoon. It's the 'minis'–it is the Minister of Family Services who has the power, the authority and the mandate in this province to protect children taken into care. On Friday, Family S ervices Department mayor– Mr. McKinnon delivered ministerial damage control at the inquiry.

He placed blame and responsibility for Phoenix's death directly on the failure of front -line staff who deliver the services of child protection, no mention of the minister's lack of oversight. It appears that this minister has forgotten her 'ron'–her responsibilities. If any parent demonstrated this neglect for their children, they would be removed. Does this minister not agree that accountability and transparency involves the duty to inform and explain, not behind– not to hide behind the departmental lawyer? Why is she hiding behind a lawyer and making him do spin– Mr. Speaker: Order, please.

The member's time has expired. Hon. Jennifer Howard (Minister of Family Services and Labour): I respect the c ommissioner, Hughes. I respect what he is doing in the commission. I've had no discussions with any lawyers about what's happening at that inquiry. I've been very clear from the beginning that I expect that inquiry to have access to the information.

What was said on Friday very clearly was to deal with an allegation that was made in the media and by the opposition at the time of Phoenix Sincla ir's murder that it was the fault of an Aboriginal agency, and it was felt to be necessary to be very clear that the file for Phoenix Sinclair was always with Winnipeg Child and Family Services and they accepted full responsibility for handling of that fil e. And that was to put to rest the allegations that have been present from the beginning, including from the opposition, that somehow this was the fault of Aboriginal people. It was not.

Information Management System Mrs. Rowat: Mr. Speaker, I think the m inister should actually read Hansard. I don't think that she's got her facts straight. We now hear that the minister's lawyer blamed the staff in Winnipeg Child and Family Services for failure and service delivery errors. The minister continued to stand idly by, hiding behind her lawyer's spin. In 2012, the Auditor General did a follow -up review of Child and Family Services and he indicated at that time, six years after his initial report, that completeness and accuracy of the information management sys tem was far from complete.

No other department would get away with that type of lack of oversight.

July 29, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3777 Mr. Speaker, how does this minister make decisions within her department without information so important to the well -being of vulnerable children? Where does that leave the 10,000- plus children in care? That's a really important question the minister should answer. Ms. Howard: I think, as we've said in this House before, in the wake of the murder of Phoenix Sinclair there were hundreds of recommendations made. We've taken action on those recommendations.

We've taken action on recommendations to deal with staffing, to ensure that there was in–additional resources put in place at the front lines. We've taken action by making sure that those workers have new 'tweel'–new tools available, internationally renowned tools to do a better job to assess risk. And part of that has also been ongoing work on the information system, and that work continues, Mr. Speaker. We will get more recommendations from the results of this inquiry and we will continue to take action to change the child-welfare system.

But I want to say clearly, I have a responsibility to the children of this province. Everyone in this Chamber has a responsibility to the children of this province. Everyone in this province has that responsibility. Ministerial Accountability Mrs. Rowat: It's this minis ter's responsibility to ensure that those tools and those resources are in place for her staff, and they weren't, Mr. Speaker. So, ultimately, she failed the –these children, and 'expecially' Phoenix.

In 2006, MGEU President Peter Olfert said, and I quote , our members are very upset; many feared that something like this may occur, in reference to Phoenix's murder. MGEU had indicated that the Province refused to act in years leading up to Phoenix's death. Not at the –now at the inquiry, we see the minister u sing her departmental lawyer to spin–'splin'–or spin the blame away from her and her Cabinet colleagues. Cabinet priorities seem a bit skewed, Mr. Speaker, no government oversight and complete negligence.

It appears they have trouble paying for yet 'anot h'–or they have no trouble paying for yet another– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member's time has expired. * (14:20) Ms. Howard: It's been very important to us since the inquiry began that that inquiry is able to do its work without any fe ar or favour from the government. I have never had any discussion with any lawyer involved in that inquiry.

It was important for me that that inquiry be able to do its work, be able to look for the answers that it needs to look for so that it can make recommendations so that we can act to continue to make the changes that are important in the child-welfare system. That action has begun. There are more workers on the front lines trying to protect kids with better tools. There are new strategies designed to help families who are in crisis before their children have to be apprehended.

The child -welfare system has changed a great deal in the last few years and it will continue to change to make sure that children are protected in this province, but that change will take all of us. Horse Racing Industry Funding Commitment Mr. Cliff Cullen ( Spruce Woods ): Over the weekend, yet another broken NDP promise has come to light. On June 24th this year, the Minister of Agriculture sent a letter to the Manitoba Horse Racing Commission indicating the government would assist the Manitoba Great Western Harness Racing Circuit.

The amount indicated in the letter was $400,000, of which $62,000 was to be retained by the NDP -appointed commission. Four weeks of racing have now taken place and the NDP have not fulfilled this promise. Why has this NDP government broken their commitment as laid out in the June 24th letter? Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Act): Well, Mr. Speaker, I'm glad that members opposite have finally realized that we are interested in providing support to the harness racing industry.

Because all of their questions –I think they've asked almost as many questions on Assiniboine downs, I think, as virtually any other issue, I think more than health, more than education. But I'm surprised that now, all of a sudden, that the member's actually asking about the harness racing side, because we've indicated all the way along –in fact, part of our budge t was to make sure we continue to support not only thoroughbred but also the harness racing industry.

3778 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 29, 2013 And I point out, by the way, they still haven't dealt with that. We're here in day whatever of the session, they're still not–they have still not passed the appropriate legislation. In fact, last week they wouldn't even pass Interim Supply. So the bottom line is I don't think they have any real interest in the harness racing industry. Mr. Cullen : Here's an NDP government that has broken the law. They'v e broken their word. We're just asking the minister to put his money where his mouth is today. In fact, Mr.

Speaker, the NDP have so badly managed this file year after year they've almost killed the standardbred industry in Manitoba. The industry has com e to government in good faith with long-term solutions, and the government has refused to negotiate. Many in the industry have fled to other provinces. Last -minute funding decisions provided by the NDP have almost made it impossible for owners and trainers to have horses prepared for the racing season. Why does the NDP continue to jeopardize the horse racing industry by acting so ineptly? Mr.

Ashton: I want to put on the record again that we announced prior to the budget, our Finance Minister announced in the budget –by the way, the budget that members opposite still haven't passed fully through the Legislature–that we would continue supports to the horse racing industry. There will continue to be 140 machines at Assiniboine downs. The difference is that t hey will now receive the same amount that every other commercial site holder in the province receives, although, actually, it's a better deal than most other commercial site holders because they're capped at 40; there'll be 140 machines.

We've indicated again that we will continue through the parimutuel levy rebate to support not only the thoroughbred industry but also harness racing. But, again, members opposite still haven't even passed the budget. So they can talk all they want. They haven't passed Interim Supply. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The minister's time has expired. Order, please. Mr. Cullen: The NDP priority is to write themselves cheques for their own political party. We've had four weekends of racing and no one is being paid.

Some of those responsible for putting on the race meets have said that they will not provide this service this upcoming weekend if they're not paid. Many owners, trainers and drivers are making plans to go to other provinces as a result of not being paid. The NDP have completely mismanaged this file, have shown complete disregard for the horse racing industry in Manitoba. Why is the NDP so intent to drive this industry out of the province? Are they going to fulfill this commitment, or is this just going to be another broken promise? Mr.

Ashton : Once again I point out that –I just pointed out in my last answer that last week it got so bad that members opposite voted against supplying anything in government. They voted agai nst Interim Supply, all of it. They voted at committee stage against all of Estimates. And I want to stress that we did set priorities in our budget and, yes, there will be a transfer of money from horses to hospitals. But we're still there for the thoroughbred industry, still there for the harness industry. But again, what difference would it make? They've been delaying, they've been voting against everything.

So I don't think they really care, not only about–do they not care about health care and hospitals, they don't care about the horse racing industry either. If they did, they'd vote on our budget and they'd vote on our Interim Supply. ER Services (Pine Falls) Physician Shortage Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): And it seems that this government is refusing to listen to Manitobans, Mr. Speaker. They're more concerned with the vote tax.

Last week during question period when I asked the Minister of Health about the status of the ER at the Pine Falls Hospital, the minister said, and I quote: People are welcome to present to the ER. The nurses will act accordingly, consult with the doctor on the phone and assist the family in calling 911. Is this the Health Minister's answer to the doctor shortage in this province? When are we going to staff ERs with doctors? Hon. T heresa Oswald (Minister of Health): As I said last week to the member–[interjection] As I said to the member last week that there are emergency

July 29, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3779 rooms in Manitoba that are under nursed- managed care; that means that they can deal with many iss ues that present to the ER. If indeed parents present with a child, for example, to an ER and a nurse does her very professional assessment, perhaps consults with the doctor over the phone, and it is deemed that it is in fact an emergency situation requiring 911, paramedic support, the STARS ambulance, yes, they will assist with that. That is because it is their job. Mr. Ewasko: Mr.

Speaker, on Friday, July 26th, there was no doctor scheduled at the Pine Falls ER; that was this past Friday. This was the 11 th day just in the month of July of nurse -managed care at the Pine Falls ER, one of the busiest EMS stations in the region, as I stated, the paid editorial I referenced to last week. Is this the Health Minister's answer to the doctor shortage in the provi nce, taking a nurse off of the ward and assisting patients with calling 911 in the ER? Really, Mr. Speaker? Ms. Oswald: Yes, Mr.

Speaker, our answer to improving health care in Manitoba is to ensure that we bring more doctors to the front lines, which is why we've seen a net increase of doctors in Manitoba every year since being in office. I would contrast this, respectfully, with seeing a net decrease in doctors every year that the members opposite were in office. This is not a small point. But I would also say, Mr. Speaker, that our nurses–our RNs, our LPNs, our RPNs, our nurse practitioners–are highly skilled and highly trained.

I've been listening to the member across the way and it seems to me that he has no regard for their judgment whatsoever. Mr. Ewasko: On behalf of many Manitobans who call the Lac du Bonnet constituency home, we are asking for this minister to stop talking and start doing, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Victoria Beach, East Beaches, Sagkeeng, Powerview-Pine Falls, Little Black River , St. George, Hollow Water, Bissett, Manigotagan, these communities all play a role in the high EMS rate at the Pine Falls ER and the hospital. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs (Mr.

Robinson), who is also t he Deputy Premier and whose riding Hollow Water is in, to put a few words on the record. When is he going to stand up and start asking some of these questions to the Minister of Health? Ms. Oswald: Certainly the constituents in Lac du Bonnet absolutely, l ike all Manitobans, deserve the best possible care. They deserve a family doctor for all, to which we have committed with a very aggressive target of 2015. They need to have nurses at the bedside, which is why we've seen a net increase of well over 3,000 nurses since coming into office, since 1999.

They deserve new facilities like the PCH that we've planned for the Lac du Bonnet constituency. Mr. Speaker, all of this is being done in the context of global economic uncertainty. When those members had their hands on the wheel, they cut spaces in medical school, fired a thousand nurses, and they said they wouldn't build anything at all. It is a contrast indeed. Epileptologist Vacancy Position Recruitment Mr. Cameron Friesen (Morden -Winkler): Mr.

Speaker, in t he province of Manitoba we used to have two epileptologists, which are highly specialized neurologists who treat seizure disorders. * (14:30) The WRHA has had an epileptologist vacancy since February 2012 when one of those epileptologists left Manitoba to practise elsewhere, leaving one specialist here to handle the whole provincial caseload. Only one specialist means unreasonable wait times for assessing, for testing, for treatment, and undue stress on the 20,000 people who need these services. Can th e minister indicate: Has a replacement 'epitologist' been hired? Hon.

T heresa Oswald (Minister of Health): I thank the member for the question. This particular specialty is indeed very, very difficult to recruit. It's a really important role, without a doubt, and that's why the WRHA is actively recruiting. There have been some candidates that have been interviewed. There have been active offers made to those. That work continues. There has not–I can answer the member's question –been a new epileptologist secured, but that work is ongoing because families deserve access to that. Broadly, we want to ensure that we're bringing as many family doctors and specialists to the front

3780 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 29, 2013 line, and that's why we're continuing to invest, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Friesen: Mr. S peaker, that's a very hollow answer. Today in the public gallery, there are 13 members present from the Epilepsy and Seizure Association of Manitoba, and we welcome them. And, Mr. Speaker, this minister wrote to the association saying that it could take up to one year to hire a replacement. But right now we're at one and a half years, and she says they're still actively recruiting. Mr. Speaker, what's the result?

Manitobans trying to get into the clinic have to wait four to six months just to get asses sed and years longer for treatment. The association wrote the minister and said, what's taking so long? Can the minister explain: Why is there still no replacement epileptologist? Ms. Oswald: I thank the member for the question, and I welcome the member s that are in the gallery today. We certainly know that people that are living with epilepsy and their families deserve to have the best possible care, and that is why this recruitment effort is going on very aggressively.

As I said at the outset, there a re not many of these specialists nationwide, Mr. Speaker. There's a lot of work going on with a national and, indeed, international recruitment for this. We want very much to secure an individual to serve in this role. We have other individuals in the system that are doing their best to support. I agree with the member. We want to have an epileptologist just as soon as possible. The WRHA is working very hard to do this recruitment in a position that is very difficult to fill, and that work will continue. Mr. Friesen: Mr.

Speaker, this minister says they deserve the best care and yet she makes a promise that she proceeds not to keep. The association said to the minister it is hard to see care moving backward, not forward. Michael Horrocks is a young Mani toban whose seizures have become so unmanageable that he's had to go on disability. He has seizures. He has double vision. He wants to be productive, but his life is on hold while he awaits assessment for surgical treatment. His family is losing hope. His place of employment will only guarantee his job up to October. Minister said she'd have a replacement in one year.

Why did she break her promise to Michael, his family and the many other Manitobans who are waiting too long and the association who's in the gallery today? Ms. Oswald: Yes, Mr. Speaker, we want no families in Manitoba to lose hope about the health of their loved ones, not one family. And I can assure the members in the gallery today that the work that's going on with doctors, with specialists within the field here in Manitoba and, indeed, nationally and internationally, is very aggressive and ongoing. I would say once again this is a very difficult specialty in which to recruit.

Jurisdictions across the nation are having similar challenges. We want to help any family that's finding themselves in a situation like the member cites, and I want to assure him that we'll do everything that we can to support this family and to support the WRHA with the 'necessory' resources to enable them to continue on this very challenging recruitment effort. We want this family to get care, absolutely, Mr. Speaker. Experimental Lakes Research Facility Interprovincial Funding Agreement Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr.

Speaker, last week the Premier was at Ni agara-on-the-Lake in Ontario and having talks, among other people, with Kathleen Wynne, the Premier of Ontario. One of the major joint efforts of Ontario and Manitoba at the moment is saving the Experimental Lakes Area so that its research will be able to help saving Lake Winnipeg, which is today in peril after 14 years of poor management and delays under this NDP government. I ask the Premier whether he and the Premier of Ontario came to a common agreement on how they're going to work together to save the Experimental Lakes Area, and if so, what is the plan? Hon.

Greg Selinger (Premier): I thank the member from River Heights for the question. We did discuss the Experimental Lakes project and how important it is, the research, not only for saving lakes in Manitoba but for –really for lakes around the world. The research that has come out of the Experimental Lakes Area led by Dr. Schindler

July 29, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3781 and many other fine scientists in Manitoba was a major contributor to the reduction of acid rain in the Great Lakes, and now they're focusing on some of the issues of nutrification in our lakes and some of the very serious blue algae toxins that are there. So we are working together to find a way to keep that research alive at a time when the federal government wants to completely get rid of that responsibility.

There is a framework that has been presented to the international institute of sustainable development, the government of Ontario in collaboration with the government of Manitoba –and are trying to find a way forw ard to continue to keep this research going. Scientists still have access to that region this summer to carry on their experiments. We're fortunate that was able to be done as these discussions continue. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, saving the Experimental Lakes Area is critical to saving not just Lake Winnipeg but many other lakes.

Manitoba is known as the land of a hundred thousand lakes, and there's no way we're going to be able to ensure the water quality in these hundred thousand lakes without the Experimental Lakes Area. If the province were to contribute, for example, $1 million a year, or 0.008 per cent of the provincial budget, to keep the ELA operating and ensure the health of a hundred thousand lakes, this would appear to be a bargain.

Is the P remier going–committing firm new financial resources to the International Institute for Sustainable Development to save the ELA, or is he still equivocating on Manitoba's financial commitment? Mr. Selinger: We are the only government that I'm aware of in Canada that has an annual contribution to the international institute in the order of a million dollars. We are looking at how we can continue that kind of funding. We believe that funding should be directed at priority areas in part, such as the Experimental Lakes Area, so we're prepared to make a contribution to that. But let's be clear.

This is a project that has always been funded by the federal government. They have decided –without consulting anybody, the federal Conservatives have decided to cut this funding. Now they're looking for a way to transfer it to another organization. Two provincial governments, the government of Ontario, the government of Manitoba, along with the institute, are willing to consider making a contribution to that, but we need a federal partner as well. This research has not only pan- Canadian implications, it has international implications.

This research has made a tremendous difference all around the world, and it would be very helpful if the federal government would recognize that and continue to have an ongoing contribution to this very important research. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, I didn't hear any new commitment to –for natural resources. Where does this Premier actually stand? A great deal hinges on meeting a September 1st deadline when the current agreement on the Experimental Lakes Area expires.

Getting private sector fundraising, getting a business plan, all depends on having this September the 1st agreement and on the funding from Manitoba. The commitmen ts are clearly needed. Without these, the future viability of the Experimental Lakes Area and saving our hundred thousand lakes are very much in doubt. I ask the Premier whether he talked with Kathleen Wynne about the urgency of the September 1 deadline. I ask the Premier: Did he actually do his job and make sure he went all the way and got– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The member's time has expired. Mr. Selinger: Well, Mr.

Speaker, the Premier of Ontario and I did discuss this. We both agreed it was an important project to keep alive. We both value the research. We value the scientific activity that has occurred not only in this province but in Ontario and the contribution that it's made to protecting our Great Lakes. And we consider Lake Winnipeg one of the great lakes of the world.

It is one of the largest freshwater lakes in the world, which is why we brought in save Lake Winnipeg legislation to reduce phosphorus going into that lake when the members of the opposition opposed it every step of the way, and it's why we've leveraged up to a billion dollars of resources through our various budgets with other levels of government to make sure there are good inputs into reducing nutrification and toxic algae on Lake Winnipeg, and the Leader of the Liberal Par ty voted against those resources. * (14:40)

3782 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 29, 2013 We will continue our negotiations. We need a federal partner on this. There is an environmental liability there; that has to be resolved. The federal government cannot expect other organizations to pick up that liability and they can walk away from it. All levels of government have to contribute to the solution, Mr. Speaker, not just the government of Ontario and the government of Manitoba. ZenFri Inc. Interactive Digital Media Tax Credit Mr. Dave Gaudreau (St.

Norbert): Today the Minister of Innovation, Energy and Mines was at ZenFri games, an interactive video gaming company that has benefited from our interactive digital media tax credit. Despite the rhetoric and the doom and gloom party over there, Manitoba is doing pretty well. We have a 5 per cent unemployment, which is 2 per cent lower than the national average. Can the minister tell the House how this tax credit is bringing more jobs and investment to Manitoba? Hon.

Dave Chomiak (Minister of Innovation, Energy and Mines ): I was quite honoured to be at ZenFri's offices today to look at their new game called Clandestine: Anomaly, Mr. Speaker, and it's an interdigital media game that is probably –and is recognized around the world as the most adva nced game in the world. It was developed in Manitoba by a fellow who came from Ontario who said it's only in Manitoba – there's no exodus of brains out of Manitoba. They're coming into Manitoba because it's a good place to do business.

It came as a result of a $710,000 grant from media Canada and because of the interdigital media tax credit that they get from Manitoba. That's why he said he was here. An entrepreneur that's employing around 42 people to develop interdigital media programs, a game that will be the best in the world, and members opposite oppose it. This is the new technology; this is the new world. Manitobans are at the forefront– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The minister's time has expired. Lake Manitoba-Lake St. Martin Flood Prevention Mr. Stuart Briese (Agassiz): Mr. Speaker, Lake Manitoba and Lake St.

Martin remain at dangerously high levels, well above regulated levels. The shorelines are eroded and in many places non-existent because of the extensive flooding in 2011. I ask the Premier (Mr. Selinger): What actions are the NDP taking to prevent flooding this fall and next spring? Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister responsible for Emergency Measures): Well, Mr. Speaker, I think the most important thing that we did in 2011 in terms of Lake Manitoba and Lake St. Martin was build the emergency outlet, and I want to indicate that we positioned equipment again there this year, again, if it needs to be used.

And I'm very proud that as part of our commitment and our budget to historic investment in infrastructure, we're also committed to a $250- million investment in additional outlet from Lake Manitoba and Lake St. Martin because we are looking at the long term. Now, in the immediate situation I can advise the member–and I'm more than willing to provide a briefing–that certainly levels are projected to begin dropping over the next number of weeks, depending on weather. But, of course, we are very aware of the impacts of flooding the last period of time.

That's why we're committed to long-term solutions for Lake Manitoba and Lake St. Martin. Mr. Briese: Mr. Speaker, the key phrase there was depending on weather, and I don't know how he can predict the weather. Lake Manitoba and Lake St. Martin are one wind event away from catastrophe, and Manitoba is noted for fall windstorms. I ask the Premier again: What actions are being taken today to protect the 2011 flood victims from a repeat disaster this fall with a wind event? Mr. Ashton : Mr.

Speaker, I want to stress again I can provide a b riefing to the member if he wants to see the current forecast in terms of the lake. I want to indicate that we've got significant flows again this year, particularly on the Waterhen. As the member's probably aware, there's been significant rainfall in the Parkland and southwest Manitoba that has impacted very significantly on Lake Manitoba and Lake St. Martin. I want to indicate we're working in terms of those communities and in terms of some of the damage that's taken place, and I want to stress that.

July 29, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3783 But we're working not only today in real time in terms of floods, we're also committed to the future, and I hope the member will reconsider his position on the budget, because that budget, Mr. Speaker, is going to provide the long- term solution for Lake Manitoba and Lake St. Martin. That's what we need, long-term solutions for those communities, and I hope the member opposite will support them. Mr. Briese: Mr. Speaker, the situation is serious and dangerous. Lake levels are higher now than in 2010 prior to the 2011 flood.

Is the Premier just going to cross his fingers and hope it doesn't happen? Is he just going to quote his disgraced minister of Water Stewardship who in the fall of 2010 said the suggestion of flooding was just crazy? Mr. Ashton : Well, Mr. Speaker, I want to remind the member again that not only are we committed to the long- term solution, in 2011 we put in place an emergency outlet at Lake St. Martin that can be actioned, if necessary, to protect both Lake St. Martin and Lake Manitoba.

And I want to put on the record that because of that outlet and because of the tremendous work that was done by our engineers, by the construction companies and the First Nations communities and many others, we brought the levels of both of those lakes back below flood level. So we not only deal with the long term –which, Mr. Speaker, I invite members opposite to come on board with–we're there day in, day out, in the real-time flooding, and we'll be there for Lake Manitoba and Lake St. Martin short term, mid -term and long term. Mr. Speaker: Time for oral questions has expired.

Time for– MEMBERS' STATEMENTS ANAVETS Assiniboia No. 283 Ms. Sharon Blady (Kirkfield Park): Mr. Speaker, Canada's veterans have sacrificed much in the service of our country and deserve our honour and respect. Today I rise to recognize ANAVETS, Canada's oldest veterans' association. ANAVETS, or the Army, Navy and Air Force Veterans in Canada, b egan as an association for members of former French and British regiments. They banded together to exchange information on available services and benefits as well as to socialize and provide mutual support.

Today, ANAVETS is a non-profit organization with 18,000 members in 70 units across the country, in British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Ontario, Québec, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and, of course, here in Manitoba. Its purpose is to unite veterans across the country, to provide advocacy on behalf of veterans and to help promote awareness of services available to veterans. This month in Winnipeg, ANAVETS Assiniboia Unit No. 283 celebrated its 67th anniversary. Its first meeting was held in May of 1946 in the old Assiniboia municipal hall, now the St.

James historical museum, and the association was officially opened a few months later on July 13th. Since its humble beginnings, ANAVETS Unit 283 has grown to offer a variety of services to its members, from dances and barbeques to golf, shuffleboard and snooker, to information on benefits available through Veterans Affairs Canada. This organization truly serves the veteran community in west Winnipeg. Unit 283's anniversary was celebrated in style July 13th at the John Thompson memorial hall, where long- serving members received recognition for the years of dedication.

The event was a great success thanks to the hard work of members and the executive who co -ordinate the unit's operations all year. Mr. Speaker, Canada's identity comes largely from the contri butions to global peace and security made by our courageous men and women in uniform. I would like to congratulate ANAVETS Assiniboia Unit No. 283 on 67 years of supporting those who have supported Canada. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I would ask leave for the names of the executive to be recorded in Hansard. Mr.

Speaker: Is there leave of the House to include the names of the honourable members mentioned? [Agreed] 2013 ANAVETS Assiniboia Unit No. 283 Executive: Reg Baldwin, Gord Criggar, Hayden Kent, Le o Barron, Syd Stamper, Sheldon Clupp, Dave Walker, Rae Roberts, Gord Kent, Susan Paggett, Sylvia Shaler, Bill Sadler, Elvira Furutani, Gord Ayotte, Gord Kent, Barbie Sands, Reverend Canon Dr. Murray Still. Threshermen's Reunion and Stampede Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): Mr. Speaker, every July since 1952, the community of

3784 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 29, 2013 Austin celebrates its Threshermen's Reunion and Stampede, a unique occasion where visitors can view agricultural artifacts and learn about the history of Manitoba's pioneers. The museum started in the late 1940s when Don Carrothers became deeply concerned about the amount of farm machinery from the pioneer era that was leaving the province. In response, Mr.

Carrothers acquired a Case 22 -65 steam engine, restored it to operating condition and paraded the engine on several occasions to gather community support for a museum which would collect and preserve agricultural implements from Manitoba's pioneer era. He was successful and gathered a group of like-minded people to found the Agricultural Museum in 1951. The early years of the museum were difficult ones, as money was short and the needs for money were great in building a museum. But the hard work of the volunteers prevailed, and in 1952 the museum hosted its first Threshermen's Reunion.

Steam engines, gas tractors and horse -drawn equipment can be seen and heard doing the jobs of plowing and threshing that this equipment was designed for. All museum exhibit buildings are open, including 20 in the Homesteaders Village. A free grandstand show each afternoon features a parade of vintage farm equipment and contests such as stooking and sheaf -tying demo and a threshing competition between gas- and steam-driven threshing machines. This year's Threshermen's Reunion feature d both Massey and Horsepower as their Expo features.

There's a rodeo each evening, and the evening ends with a free dance on an open- air dance floor. There was also a petting zoo and a barrel train for kids to ride on. * (14:50) Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask all members of this House to join me in congratulating the community of Austin and the organizers of the Threshermen's Reunion and Stampede on 59 years of success, and I wish them all the best in planning next year's 60th anniversary. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Folklorama Mr. Dave Gaudreau (St. Norbert): Mr.

Speaker, I'm pleased to live in a multicultural province where ethnic diversity is encouraged and able to flourish. With more than 150 countries represented and more than 140 languages spoken and over 220 ethnocultural community organizations across the province, Manitoba continues to demonstrate its commitment to preserving and sharing our unique culturals–cultures with one another. One of my favourite things about summer is learning of the many cultures found in Manitoba through Folklorama.

Last year I attended 14 fantastic pavilions and was very honoured to participate in the Punjab pavilion turban -wrapping demonstration on stage. I wore the turban probably for the entire night. Having the opportunity to explore and become immersed in other cultures helps to develop an understanding of our neighbours' heritage, build a stronger and more united province. Mr. Speaker, Folklorama bega n as a one -time event to celebrate Manitoba's centennial in 1970. Folklorama first consisted of 21 pavilions that brought over 75,000 visitors.

Now Folklorama is the largest, longest running multicultural festival in the world. This year Folklorama is host ing 46 pavilions and expected to welcome over 425,000 visitors. Not only do Winnipeggers take advantage of this incredible festival, many people throughout the province, country and across the world come to Winnipeg to explore pavilions at Manitoba 's Folklorama. Some venture from as far away as Australia, Korea, Paraguay and elsewhere. Folklorama is made possible by the amazing work of volunteers year after year.

The 20,000 committed and dedicated volunteers who work in the kitchens, at the door, on stage and behind the scenes are essential to Folklorama's continued success. Mr. Speaker, t his year's festival will be held from August 4th to 17th. During the next two weeks, I encourage all members of the Legislature to attend as many pavilions as possible to embrace the cultural diversity found here in Manitoba.

I would also like to thank Folklorama's board of directors, staff, sponsors, performers and volunteers for their incredible contributions to creating a cultural vibrancy that can be seen th roughout our shining province. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Norman Tilley Mr. Ian Wishart (Portage la Prairie): Today I would like to recognize Norman Tilley, an outstanding businessman and realtor who has the

July 29, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3785 honour of being the longest practising realtor in Canada with 63 years in the business and still going strong at the age of 96. His first sale took place in 1950 when he sold a half

section of land. Norm Tilley didn't begin his working life in the real estate business. In 1937 he went into the family cattle business northwest of Austin where he was born and raised. A few years later it was his commitment to this family that made him decide to leave farming and this marked the beginning of his real estate career. He went to work for the local outlet of the Canadian West Grain Company and through the urging of the former owners became a registered real estate broker. Prior to working for the grain company, Mr.

Tilley had spent a couple of summers working in Narvey's clothing in Portage la Prairie, and this experience influenced him to move to Portage. In 1962 Norman incorporated his business, and this began his devotion to the real estate –to real estate. Norman was involved in the creation of the Manitoba Real Estate Association in the 1950s and in 1976 the Portage Real Estate Board where he served two terms as president. During his time as president of the association, he convinced the government of then-Premier Duff Roblin to abandon their idea of a 1 per cent tax on all land sales.

He is a great mentor to those starting their careers in the real estate field, and with his vast knowledge he is always willing to help real estate agents–to teach, sorry –new real estate agents how rewarding it is when you make both the buyer and the seller happy. Many peopl e in the community would not be living in their homes today, businesses wouldn't not be in operation were it not for Mr. Tilley's experience and generosity. He was always there to help those in need in a kind and generous way.

He has made many contributions to the community of Portage la Prairie as well as serving on city council as an alderman, a board member of the Portage and district hospital, a director of the Portage la Prairie Community Development Corporation, president of the local Kiwanis Club and a charter member of his local church. Mr. Speaker, I ask all members to join me in paying tribute to Mr. Norman Tilley. Ininiwi Aski Quest Mr. Frank Whitehead (The Pas): Mr.

Speaker, on Friday, July 26th, 14 brave and tenacious canoers arrived at The Fo rks after a 890 -kilometre journey from Pimicikamak Cree Nation, Cross Lake, as part of the Ininiwi Aski Quest. The Ininiwi Aski Quest was founded by four Cross Lake community members in 2004. This independent organization provides opportunity for youth t o reclaim their connection to the earth and find healing through their canoe quest. This year's group departed from Pimicikamak on July 8th. The 18- day life -changing journey had participants retrace their ancestors' paths.

The eldest participant was 81 an d the youngest was 10 years old. Embarking in a 30- foot canoe, warrior canoe, the group travelled for 890 kilometres, making camp along the way and learning about the land we call home. The quest was not without problems; there were storms, the canoe broke, and there were seven -hour trek from Grand Beach to Brokenhead Ojibway First Nation. However, there were also incredible connections built with those whom they met and an increased understanding of the strength of their ancestors.

The canoe quest raised awareness on environmental issues, and specifically the protection of Lake Winnipeg. Mr. Speaker, the Province is committed to protect and restore the lake. Manitobans are hopeful, through joint efforts, that we will find ways to restore the health of our lake so that seven generations and beyond shall embrace the beautiful natural lands and waters of our ancestors. Mr. Speaker, a t the welcoming ceremony on Friday, July 26th, community members joined together with their drums and voices to honour Mother Earth, the water and the paddlers.

The heartwarming ceremony was –also included a powwow, guest speakers such as the Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs (Mr. Robinson), and a community feast which featured stories about the group's experiences on their quest. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask all members of the Legislative Assembly to congratulate these dedicated and committed participants who took

part in this journey. It was a quest to gain understanding about our land and the need to protect her. Now we must do all our part.

3786 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 29, 2013 I request leave to have the names included in Hansard, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: Is there leave of the House to include the names in the Hansard? [Agreed] From Cross Lake: Ronnie Beardy, Nathan Beardy, Elaine Beardy, Chloe Beardy, Zulieka Castel, Clinton Muskego, Karmen Muskego, Dylan Mason, Nelson McKay, Andrena Blacksmith; From Gods Lake Narrows: Cody Ross, Perry White; From Poplar River: Cheyene Bruce; From Berens River: Shirley Semple, Maggie Swortz; Organizers: Fawn Beardy, Roxanne Shuttleworth. Mr.

Speaker: Seeing no grievances– ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Hon. Jennifer Howard (Government House Leader): We're ready to proceed with royal assent for Bill 48. ROYAL ASSENT Acting Deputy Sergeant -at-Arms (Mr. Craig Waterman): His Honour the Lieutenant Governor. His Honour Philip S. Lee, Lieutenant Governor of the Province of Manitoba, having entered the House and being seated on the throne, Mr. Speaker addressed His Honour the Lieutenant Governor in the following words: Mr. Speaker: Your Honour: The Legislative Assembly of Manitoba asks Your Honour to accept the following bill: * (15:00) Clerk (Ms.

Patricia Chaychuk): Bill 48 –The Interim Appropriation Act, 2013; Loi de 2013 portant affectation anticipée de crédits In Her Majesty's name, the Lieutenant Governor thanks the Legislative Assembly and assents to this bill. His Honour was then pleased to retire. Mr. Speaker: Please be seated. House Business Hon. Jennifer Howard (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, would you please call second readings in the following order: Bill 27, 37, 41, 42, 19, 24, 30, 46 and 47, followed by the resumption of debate on second reading of Bill 18. Mr.

Speaker: We'll call bills in the following sequence: Bill 27 followed by 37, 41, 42, 19, 24, 30, 46, 47 and then followed by the resumption of debate on Bill 18. SECOND READINGS Mr. Speaker: So we'll start now with Bill 27, The Highway Traffic Amendment Act (Charter Bus Service). Bill 27–The Highway Traffic Amendment Act (Charter Bus Service) Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation ): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Energy and Mines, that Bill 27, the highway traffic amendment act , be now read a second time and referred to a committee of this House. Motion presented. Mr.

Ashton : Mr. Speaker, this bill is a follow -up to a previous bill which brought in some significant changes to scheduled bus service and its regulation in the province. Members in the House will be aware that in 2009 the m ain carrier in terms of scheduled bus service announced it was imminently withdrawing service. We put in place interim supports to keep that scheduled service in place, but we recognize that the previous model, which involved cross -subsidization, didn't work. So we brought in a more flexible regulation that still has regulation for safety but allow for both easier entry and exit.

This is a follow -up which deals with charter buses. The current rules have a very significant economic entry test. Applicants can and will be often subject to challenge at the Motor Transport Board, even if they believe they do have the business. This will move to a more flexible nature. There will continue to be regulation in terms of safety and other requirements. And this again will provide more opportunities for many carriers, as well as more options for members of the public. I would, therefore, Mr.

Speaker, strongly urge support for this bill to go through to committee, and we look forward to hearing presenters at committee. Mr. Speaker: Is the House ready for the question? An Honourable Member: No. Mr. Speaker: The honourable member for Lakeside.

July 29, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3787 Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): Yes, in regards to Bill 27, we're certainly, you know, pleased to see the government brought this change in at –in regards to the charter bus service. We're certainly more than happy to hear from the public in regards to what they have to say in regards to Bill 27. I know that, you know, I've had different conversations with some of the bus operators, some of the communities, Brandon city in particular, also some of the tour bus operators. But also I have some concerns.

And whenever we look at deregulation, we need to look at all those aspects, and I certainly want to thank the minister and his staff for the briefing. But the No. 1 thing that we need to look at, first and foremost, of course, is the consultation process, which we want to take very seriously. I know there is some presenters that have already signed up in regards to having their feelings expressed at committee. And I know the Canadian Federation of Independent Business council has given the –Manitoba a failing grade as far as regulatory reform is concerned. And Manitoba is falling behind.

And also, whenever we have the opportunity to cut red tape, we certainly know that that's something we've been very much in favour of. You know, with the increase in taxes –certainly has made Manitoba less affo rdable and certainly less attractive for our Manitobans to live, work and play. Now, in regards to the regulatory burdens and those other things that whenever we look at changes– and safety is paramount, and we know that a lot of the issues are covered off in the bill as far as safety is concerned.

And we want to ensure that those folks that are applying to transfer people from point A to point B, that we have the level playing field. And I think that the bill does address a number of those. The other co ncerns that we have in regards to this bill is those charter bus companies that preside outside the province of Manitoba. And we want to hear what industry has to say about those particular businesses and what safety rules are going to be in place for them . We know that we've had some carriers express interest from outside the province of Manitoba. And, certainly, you know, we want to be open for business.

That's–there's no doubt about that. We want to make sure that these folks do have the same opportunity as other bus companies within the province of Manitoba. But we've also had some concerns from those operators within the province of Manitoba in order to ensure that they're going to be able to be competitive as well. So that will be part of the debate as well. Mr. Tom Nevakshonoff, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair * (15:10) And I know that the scheduled bus services that came as a result of Greyhound, Grey Goose, changed in some of those routes that they didn't take

part in. We certainly know that whenever we talked about how important bus service was for rural Manitoba in particular, for medical reasons, for other reasons, for reasons that –a simple thing as getting parts to a community for –be it a farmer, be it a business person, be it services that we want to be able to talk about, whether we're commuting by bus, by air, by car, by truck, we certainly know that we want to be able to make sure that whatever we do, we do it right. And I know the $4 million that the government had to subsidize Greyhound right up until 2012, we're very concerned about that.

We're concerned about saving that money, but, by the same token, we want to make sure that those tests are run, those debates are had in order to ensure that we do have the best regulations in place. And I know that the current law requires that people apply for a licence in order to operate a chartered bus in Manitoba, and potential operators must be able to prove two things: fitness and economic need.

The fitness test requires them to prove that vehicles they are using is safe and they are fit for the road, and they need to be properly inspected and have a safety certificate certifying that, in fact, they are safe. The economic test requires operators to prove that there is a need for the demand for bus services which are not being met by current services, thus the same req uirement which exists for scheduled bus services prior to them being deregulated.

Under this amendment, people applying for chartered bus licences would have to prove that there is economic need rather than it would be required to pass the fitness test. T his would bring chartered bus regulations in line with current regulations for scheduled bus services. The current regulations allow for the public to object to any licence being applied for. This means that there have been cases when someone applies for a chartered bus licence and passes both the fitness and economics need test and are blocked by an objection from another bus company. This is clearly unfair.

It is a way for business to avoid competition using an administrative process designed to protect the consumer. The government should not be acting

3788 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 29, 2013 as an impedient to business, but rather than one that says we are open for business. Under this amendment, the Motor Transport Board will no longer have jurisdiction over a number of areas in the charter market. It will no longer be able to specify territory, the number or size of buses, or regulate fares. The Manitoba transport board will also still issue licence to the carriers and regulate safety but will no longer have economic jurisdiction over them. This new regulatory regime will open up new business opportunities in Manitoba.

Bus operators will no longer have to go through the 'oronous' and unnecessary paperwork. They will be able to operate within the charter and bus

schedule services bringing a m ix together in a business plan. This allows for greater flexibility on the part of business and more diverse services for consumers. There would be no limits as to who may operate a chartered bus service in Manitoba. Operators from across Canada and United States will be able to set up shop in the province of Manitoba, possibly expanding the range of destinations people can go as well. However, stakeholders have informed us that they well may have a detrimental effect on operations within Manitoba.

Currently, a Canadian charter operator can transport passengers from the US into Canada but cannot operate a bus on an entirely American route. For example, a Canadian charter bus operator cannot take a charter group from Minneapolis to Chicago. Under this new a ct, an American charter bus operator could come into Manitoba, operate a bus on an entirely American route, and that would not make it workable for the Canadian carriers.

There's also nothing to stop bus operators from operating in Ontario, Saskatchewan, from coming into Manitoba and operating here without reciprocal privileges for Manitoba operators in their respective provinces. And, in fact, it gives the Manitoba companies a bit of a leg down rather than a leg up because, with Ontario not having deregulation, it certainly opens up the door for us not to be able to go into Ontario but them, in fact, to come into Manitoba, which is potentially a possibility for unfair competition as a result of that. In the end, Manitoba can be a leader and not a follower.

It has been for many years. Saskatchewan, Ontario are still under strict economic regulation, however, Manitoba can show there are better ways to providing bus services than taking the money out of taxpayers' pockets. Saskatchewan has an entire Crown corporation dedicated to intercity bus services costing taxpayers there upwards towards $20 million a year. Manitoba in deregulation has found a much better and more sensible solution. Deregulating the bus industry was a sensible move to solve the problem of intercity bus services, of course, in Manitoba.

The market should determine where and in what territory it is profitable for a company to operate. It has taken a long time and, of course, millions and millions of dollars of taxpayers' money to finally get to this point. It should not be purviewed by the government or any other agency to determine what is and is what economical viable, whether it should be up to the entrepreneur to determine what they wish to risk in business venture. We see the value of market-base systems and welcome new opportunities for more competition and lower fare rates, of course, for Manitobans.

Safety standards, of course, must be maintained, regular inspections need to be carried out and the Province needs to ensure there enough inspectors to ensure that busses from outside the province may now operate in Manitoba are, in fact, compliance with all safety standards. We are concerned that the unfair competition from our neighbouring provinces and United States may cause problems for Manitoba operators and we'd like the government to take a little more time to consult with those industry stakeholders.

Now, as I said on the onset, I know that the city of Brandon, the mayor there has endorsed this bill, and I know some of the bus li nes that I said earlier I had spoken to, they have some serious concerns and I look forward to having that debate as we get into committee. And I know that whenever we have those debates and we have those folks at the table it's going to be an opportunity for us on this side of the House and, of course, for the government to have a look at some of the amendments or concerns that they may have. They may be addressed through question and answer period.

We certainly want to make sure that they do, in fact, get their answers they need. And we know that, with Manitoba, Greyhound leaving a large portion of the province of Manitoba, it's an opportunity for other businesses to take advantage of that and to move forward. So we certainly look forward to that and we look forward to any other information that may be coming forward as a result of Bill 27. We know that many, many times that whenever we talk about changes and deregulation, certainly

July 29, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3789 something we're very much in favour of, but we want to make sure we do it in a way that's going to be sustainable not only now but into the future. So, with that, I look forward to moving the bill on to committee at this point in time and look forward to making sure that other members, of course, of the House have an opportuni ty to speak as well.

I know there's probably others on this side of the House that want to speak to it and I know probably government members want to as well, because based on rural Manitoba it's very important that we ensure that we do have competitive bu s companies within the province of Manitoba and, of course, they're sustainable. So, with that, we look forward to moving it on to committee. Thank you. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): A few comments on Bill 27. I think there are, in particular, thr ee primary issues here.

One is in –we move from what we had historically to where we are going in terms of bus safety and bus service in this province, that we need to make sure that safety issues are fully and adequately addressed, that we will have a bett er service and that Manitoba businesses are, indeed, treated fairly.

I think on the surface this legislation would appear to be good in terms of opening things up and allowing more operators to get more easily into the business. * (15:20) On the other ha nd, there are concerns if you have, you know, more operators, that you've got to make very sure that any new operators are following high safety standards, that they're not trying to cut costs and in the process, short -cut safety issues. Safety is a very, very important and fundamental issue with respect to bus transportation.

Having travelled by bus, not only here but elsewhere in the world, I know how important safety is, and I think it's very important that we keep an eye on this, and I look forward at c ommittee stage to hearing more presentations with regard to this aspect. Second, the issue of service. On the face of it there are potential for more and better service under this scenario.

But we certainly need to ask and deal with the question about how the service applies, you know, not just for those in Winnipeg and Brandon but those people all over the province because, in fact, it has been cutbacks and services to many communities in the north and in rural Manitoba who–where we've seen the largest ef fects, and we want to make sure that all communities are looked after and that there are opportunities in Snow Lake and Swan Lake and so on, that the opportunities are not restricted. Second–or lastly, in terms of the situation of Manitoba businesses, that there is a concern here.

Indeed, I have a letter from one of the Manitoba operators who says Bill 20 will not fix the problem presently facing resident Manitoba travellers.

Rather, this operator says, it will force established transportation companie s to either close their doors or run their established businesses on the cheap or lay off hard- working taxpaying Manitoba employees, to purchase equipment, supplies, insurance, maintenance items out of province, instead of in Manitoba, where they're often significantly cheaper, and look for qualified mechanics, custodians, technology experts who may be willing to work on the cheap for whatever reason, to help reduce high operational expenditures.

Most importantly, this operator says that this bill does n't adequately address safety and may diminish safety for various reasons. Certainly, this kind of response is not very reassuring and suggests that there will indeed need to be a careful look at this bill as it goes through committee to make sure that the balance here is right, that we are indeed providing an environment which is going to be workable from the point of view of safety, service, Manitoba businesses. I think it's important, as has already been pointed out, that Saskatchewan has decided to sub sidize their bus transportation company.

We don't want Manitoba businesses having to compete with subsidized Saskatchewan buses. We want, clearly, a reciprocal agreement if there are bus companies from outside, so that our companies won't be disadvantaged, but they're–have a fair situation and a level playing field. So, with those few comments and concerns about this bill as we move forward, I think it's going to be important to have a very careful look at this when it comes to committee. Thank you. Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I move, seconded by the member for Arthur-Virden (Mr. Maguire), that debate now be adjourned.

Motion agreed to. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Now, move on to second reading of Bill 37, The Emergency Measures Amendment Act.

3790 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 29, 2013 Bill 37–The Emergency Measures Amendment Act Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister responsible for Emergency Measures ): I move, seconded by the Minister of Conservation, that Bill 37, The Emergency Measures Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les mesures d'urgence, be now read a second time and be referred to a committee of this House. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Who is your seconder, Honourable Minister? An Honourable Member: Conservation. Motion presented. Mr. Ashton: After every significant flood event or other natural disaster, we review a lot of things, and one of the things we have done –and we did this post-'97–is review The Emergency Measures Amendment Act.

This brings in a number of proposed amendments through this act that are based on the direct experience of EMO, our municipalities, and many of the first responders that have been, dare I say, rather busy recently with the natural disasters. I want to just briefly highlight them. We are clearly defining routine emergencies and major emergencies. Obviously, we've seen with 2009, 2011, some of the obvious elements that go into a major emergency, but we often do have more localized, short-lived situations we have to deal with.

We have business continuity planning included– that's clearly something that's important –maintaining essential services. We are repealing the emergency prevention order that –we found that having two levels of emergency powers was leading to confusion. This simplifies it, although creates an environment where we continue to have the appropriate measures available. We're requiring a better explanation for an emergency which is subject to a declaration of a state of local emergency.

This is only for the purpose of providing special authorities to deal with the disaster, and we want to ensure that that is, indeed, why states of local emergency are declared. We're extending the effect of state of local emergency from 14 days to 30 days. That was a significant issue in the 2011 flood. We had numerous municipalities–majority of municipalities that were actually impacted by the emergency, and this does simplify the process quite significantly. We're inserting new provisions allowing the arrest and detention of people for refusing to evacuate. I want to stress that's for their own benefit.

We did have a situation in 2009 where we had first responders rescuing people from their rooftops in the middle of the night –a very hazardous situation. And it would be used sparingly but would be required under some ci rcumstances. Obviously, there are penalties that would be attached in this case. The maximum of the penalties continues to be basically determined in legislation. We're inserting a new provision allowing cost recovery for those who refuse to evacuate. Dar e I say, when that does happen, it not only creates a hazard for our first responders but often a very significant cost.

We're inserting a new provision creating a specific offence for interfering with emergency infrastructure. This, again, we would anti cipate would be used rather sparingly, but the current process requires us to go through the various provisions of enforcing what is essentially trespass law, and there can be very significant consequences for that. I want to indicate that we're giving municipalities new abilities to authority a special levy for services related to emergency management services. I think that needs no explanation given the degree to which our response relies very heavily on municipalities.

And I know the AMM has previously requested the special service provisions in The Municipal Act be expanded. So this deals with a number of items that come out of our direct experience and through consultation with various stakeholders, including our municipalities, and are recommended to the House. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Yes, I rise to speak to Bill 37, The Emergency Measures Amendment Act.

Although there are some additional changes here which I think can be useful, what is most noticeable is the lack of addressing some re ally, really critical issues in the way that the Province approaches emergencies. * (15:30)

July 29, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3791 You know, first and foremost, we have had approximately 2,000 people who've been out of their homes primarily in Lake St. Martin and Little Saskatchewan for two years. This is, you know, really poor management having people out of their homes for so long. It's poor for the people who are concerned having to live and often moving around from one place to another, being dislocated, children who are not growing up in t heir home community and a lot of extra cost, the costs of people staying in hotels.

I understand for First Nations people is close to a hundred million dollars and I'm sure for non-First Nations people in Manitoba those costs are in the many, many millions of dollars because there were many evacuated from around Lake Manitoba and other areas. And so making sure that there is an approach in the future which is much more rapid in terms of the response, enabling people to get back home or to establish, in the case of Lake St. Martin, new communities and have this process as it is now going on and on and on.

I would have hoped, I would have expected that the minister would have done something which speaks to this important issue, but, unfortunately, I don't find anything here that deals with how to get people back home faster instead of ending up with a situation which we have, being more than two years after. Mr.

Speaker in the Chair In the last couple of weeks we have had people come from the Misty Lake Lodge over issues that have arisen and been able to hear straight from their mouths the stories that they have had to live with over the last two years and the issues not only of living, the problems that they had particularly in the first year in getting their kids into schools, the problems of making sure that they were in a good situation where they could keep their families together, that they were in a situation where they were safe.

These for many of them were very big issues, and the fact that things wer e not handled as smoothly or as easily created tremendous disruption in the lives of many, many people. And, sadly, from the stories that I've heard there were many particularly elderly people who became sick. There have been some young people who got into, you know, not only difficulties, but there have even been some suicides.

And making sure that we have a more organized approach and that we can get people back much more quickly, it seems to me that this should have been a fundamental objective and that the minister in his wisdom should have been able to look at how you can achieve this in a much better way than it happened during the most recent flood of 2011. There are, for example, numerous concerns that have been raised with regard to the funding and the support by the Manitoba Association of Native FireFighters. Now, Mr.

Speaker, the Manitoba Association of Native FireFighters has historically had a tremendously good reputation, done some marvellous, marvellous work for the people of this province. But, you know, unfortunately, it would appear that there may be a few individuals who have caused a lot of difficulties in doing things which were inappropriate, and that matter, of course, is under some investigation with audits and other things going on at the moment.

But, certainly, it would seem to me that this would have been an opportunity to look at these issues and the operation of emergency measures and emergency responses in the province in a more careful fashion. And I would suggest, Mr. Spe aker, that this was an opportunity that could have been taken and taken to the advantage of our ability to deal with emergencies in the future. There was an opportunity.

There have been, as a number of reports, as the minister himself is well aware, and I am concerned that in focusing on a few items here that we are not getting as much of the big picture and that we are missing some areas where we could have looked for very considerable improvements in how we approach emergency measures in the future. I think that the issue of cost, as I've already mentioned, is an important one, the cost of housing people in hotels. There hasn't been the emphasis on ensuring that there is rapid return, as I've already said, of people to their homes.

The government, in setting up a review, delayed considerably. Instead of that review being set up starting in, say, August of 2011 so that people could get to work and we could have had a report by 2011 and we could have had construction starting in 2011, and here we are that the reports were delayed until early on 2013, considerably later than they might well have been there for us.

And so the speed with which we're able to react to those reports has been slower, and, you know, the government this year, in a lot of its rhet oric, has emphasized the infrastructure spending on flood prevention, and yet the reality is because there has

3792 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 29, 2013 been a delay in these reports and there's been a delay primarily in the government setting up the task forces, and this has meant that, you know, as of this year, there's–it would appear that there's very little in the way of flood prevention infrastructure actually being constructed. And, certainly, the timelines that have been set for completing the outlet from Lake Manitoba into Lake St.

Marti n and into Lake Winnipeg, for addressing the dikes along the Assiniboine River, for even protecting Brandon, that there have been ongoing delays in these processes and the timeline for doing the additional outlet from Lake Manitoba, which is still many yea rs in the future before it is completed, it would have been surely smart to have had processes which are more quicker than we have had them, and this bill would have been an opportunity to put in place.

You know, the timing of processes so that they could have occurred more quickly and so that we could have had, you know, engineering studies of some of these aspects under way earlier –certainly, there was an opportunity to line things up so that in the future, we would have a better response, not only in terms of the emergency itself, not only as I've been talking about looking after people who are evacuated, but a quicker response as well in terms of flood prevention for the future.

I will give you one example of this in one of the areas where action is needed as is clear from the reports and from comments from many people and where I have spoken repeatedly is a need to switch from a policy which is a primarily drainage –drain, drain, drain policy in terms of water managing water–to a policy in which we are emphasizing at a minimum a balance between water retention and drainage. * (15:40) And this kind of approach has been very slow.

Indeed, in the fall of 2011, right within a few months after this big flood, there was very extensive drainage ongoing in southwestern Manitoba without the accompanying balanced approach to investment in water retention to make sure that we weren't continually going to be in a situation where we've got more and more water coming more and more quickly off the land and causing bigger and bigger floods.

And, sadly, because decisions were slow in coming and because, you know, the task force reports weren't completed, this government in the fall of 2012 stood by while–and permitted very extensive ongoing drainage in southwestern Manitoba. Not to say that we want to do things to a disadvantage of farmers, but that we want to do things in a balanced way that provides a lot better situation for farme rs. I mean, it's clear from the situation, for example, in South Tobacco Creek, that where you have some water retention you can, in fact, reduce flooding on farmland by 75 per cent.

This is an approach which is good for farmers and it's good for preventing flooding downstream. And as we've all seen this year with all the flooding in Calgary, with the increasing concerns that we are facing in our province, a situation where climate change is going to give us more and larger floods, that we have to be very cognizant of this. And yet here we are, sitting now more than two years after the beginning of this flood in the spring of 2011, and we don't have a new approach or changed approach to water management at this juncture.

And so this –these are the sorts o f things which surely should have been put, you know, in an emergency measures act to make sure that there is a reasonable–a timing of response and that recommendations indeed are followed. A careful reading of the report which followed the 1997 flood emphasized the fact that there needed to be a new and different approach to water management and this was going to be very important in ensuring that we had fewer rather than more floods in Manitoba in the future.

But, sadly, when the current NDP government came to power, no such change in the approach to water management was implemented. There was a continued emphasis on a drain, drain, drain-as-fast-as-you-can policy, and the result has been that there's a continuing, faster situation for water coming off the land and more quantity of water coming off the land. Very good studies by Ducks Unlimited have showed over clearly that in southwestern Manitoba, that because of the cumulative draining over the last several decades the amount of water coming off the land is in the order of 30 per cent more.

That 30 per cent extra land certainly contributed very significantly to the severity of the flood in 2011. And, in spite of some individuals who have said that keeping water on the land may not be that important, those who've looked very carefully at this not only here and elsewhere, they have come to the conclusion that in fact it is vital. And yet this government, and not even in this bill, is going to put

July 29, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3793 in place or put in place measures which will mean that we have a better approach to reducing floods. The–sure emergency measures has focused a lot on the time of the emergency, but surely, Mr. Speaker, given the size and the potential for increasing emergencies, particularly flooding, given the climate change–and that may apply to other emergencies like fires in the north also because of climate change–that we need to have a situation where we're able to address these issues better and more quickly.

And there was an opportunity in this legislation to pay atten tion, much more attention to the way in which things have been done and need to be done in the future. I also want to talk for a moment about one of the areas, which, in discussing with many people who were affected by the flood, there have been real major ongoing issues with, and this has to do with the compensation. We all know that the government has been saying it would do a lot more compensation than it actually did.

There is a widespread feeling that the approach that the government put in place resulted with–in low appraisals for many properties around Lake Manitoba. I was at a meeting not all that long ago in St. Laurent–the Twin Lakes Beach Association, and I think the MLA for Lakeside was there. And one of the questions that came up was the ass essment process and the appeal process. Now, if there's a problem with the assessment process, one would have hoped that it would have been corrected at the appeal stage.

But from the number of people who were there–and many had put in appeals –and they were asked to raise their hands if they felt that the appeal had been –resulted in a fairer compensation, and not one person rose –put their hand up. And the MLA for make –Lakeside, I think, will probably remember that very well. And, you know, it was a very telling moment at that meeting, that people were saying that the appeal process, it was a set -up. It didn't work. It didn't work fairly for people.

People felt that there was something very fundamentally wrong about how the appeal process was working because they weren't being treated fairly. And here is an opportunity, Mr. Speaker. We're dealing with The Emergency Measures Act and setting up the processes for handling floods. Could have been some issues here that were addressed in terms of not only assessmen t of properties, but appeals. And this would have been a useful thing to have been able to include.

And I believe the MLA for Lakeside would probably agree with me that, you know, that there are some things here that this government could have done, and could have done well, given all the problems that there were related to the flood of 2011, and the compensation and the events afterwards. And one of the issues which, of course, we had to deal with in the flood of 2011 was the fact that there was artifici al flooding of Lake Manitoba, that people who had their water directed, by this government, from the Assiniboine River into Lake Manitoba were artificially flooded.

And it not only artificially flooded the people in Lake Manitoba, but it artificially flooded the people in Lake St. Martin. And, you know, we've had attempts by this government to talk about and to, in fact, enact some legislation talking about artificial flooding, and what is it, and how you define it, and when–what kind of compensation that people can get. And I submit, Mr. Speaker, that the attempt, particularly along the Assiniboine River south of the Shellmouth Dam, has been particularly unsuccessful.

I have talked to quite a number of people in that area, and they just feel that they h aven't been treated fairly, and I believe that they are going to court on this issue. And, Mr. Speaker, it would have been an opportunity, in this Emergency Measures Act, I submit, to address some of these critical issues in a more meaningful way, and to be able to have a situation for floods in the future where people fundamentally feel that they're treated a bit more fairly, that those who are flooded at the expense of others–those who are flooded to save others–that this should be recognized.

That–there's not a–in the many people that I talked to around Lake Manitoba, I never found anybody who complained that they were flooded to save anyone, to save others. But I sure found a lot of people who felt very strongly that they should have been appropriately compensated when they were flooded to save others, and they felt they were not appropriately compensated. * (15:50) And so I believe the minister has missed what could have been a very, very valuable opportunity to address some really important issues that are

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	40-2-82
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	40th 2nd hansardpdf 82.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	2e35b4f87f96590c8e2bdb05c2a7d80c499a0eb7

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