British Columbia Hansard — Thursday, April 18, 2002

H0418pm-12

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

3rd Session, 37th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Thursday, April 18, 2002 Afternoon Sitting Volume 6, Number 12 THE HONOURABLE CLAUDE RICHMOND, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Honourable Iona Campagnolo 3RD SESSION, 37TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Claude Richmond EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council................................................................................. .........................Hon. Gordon Campbell Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations.............................................................................. ..................... Hon.

Greg Halsey-Brandt Deputy Premier and Minister of Education ....................................................................................... ..................................Hon. Christy Clark Minister of Advanced Education................................................................................................. ...........................................Hon. Shirley Bond Minister of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries.................................................................................... ..............................Hon.

John van Dongen Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Treaty Negotiations.............................................................. .................... Hon. Geoff Plant Minister of Children and Family Development.................................................................................... ..............................Hon. Gordon Hogg Minister of State for Early Childhood Development.............................................................................. .................................Hon.

Linda Reid Minister of Community, Aboriginal and Women's Services......................................................................... .................. Hon. George Abbott Minister of State for Community Charter........................................................................................ .................................. Hon. Ted Nebbeling Minister of State for Women's Equality ......................................................................................... .................................... Hon.

Lynn Stephens Minister of Competition, Science and Enterprise ................................................................................ ..................................Hon. Rick Thorpe Minister of State for Deregulation ............................................................................................. ............................................ Hon. Kevin Falcon Minister of Energy and Mines................................................................................................... ....................................... Hon.

Richard Neufeld Minister of Finance ............................................................................................................ ....................................................... Hon. Gary Collins Minister of Forests ............................................................................................................ .................................................. Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of Health Planning .................................................................................................... ............................................ Hon.

Sindi Hawkins Minister of Health Services.................................................................................................... ................................................ Hon. Colin Hansen Minister of State for Mental Health ............................................................................................ ...................................Hon. Gulzar S. Cheema Minister of State for Intermediate, Long Term and Home Care ............................................................................. Hon.

Katherine Whittred Minister of Human Resources.................................................................................................... ............................................Hon. Murray Coell Minister of Management Services................................................................................................ .........................................Hon. Sandy Santori Minister of Provincial Revenue................................................................................................. ................................................Hon.

Bill Barisoff Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ................................................................................ ..................................Hon. Rich Coleman Minister of Skills Development and Labour...................................................................................... .............................Hon. Graham P. Bruce Minister of Sustainable Resource Management.................................................................................... ..................................Hon.

Stan Hagen Minister of Transportation..................................................................................................... .................................................... Hon. Judith Reid Minister of Water, Land and Air Protection..................................................................................... ....................................Hon. Joyce Murray LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Deputy Speaker................................................................................................................. ..............................................................

John Weisbeck Leader of the Opposition ....................................................................................................... ...........................................................Joy MacPhail Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ........................................................................................... .............................................. Harold Long Clerk of the Legislative Assembly .............................................................................................. .........................................E.

George MacMinn Clerk Assistant ................................................................................................................ ................................................................... Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk .................................................................................................. ........................................................ Ian D. Izard Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees........................................................................................ ............................................Craig H.

James Clerk Assistant/Committee Clerk................................................................................................ ............................................ Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms ............................................................................................................... .........................................................A.A. Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ..................................................................................................... ........................................

Anthony Dambrauskas Legislative Librarian.......................................................................................................... ............................................................. Joan A. Barton Legislative Comptroller ........................................................................................................ .................................................................Peter Bray Published by British Columbia Hansard Services, and printed under the authority of the Speaker by the Queen's Printer, Victoria.

Rates: single issue, $2.85; per calendar year, mailed daily, $298. GST extra. Agent: Crown Publications Inc., 521 Fort St., Victoria, B.C. V8W 1E7. Telephone: (250) 386-4636. Fax: 386-0221. Internet: www.legis.gov.bc.ca/hansard

Party Standings: Liberal 76; New Democratic 2; Independent Liberal 1. ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) ....................................................................... Shuswap Anderson, Val J. (L) .............................................................Vancouver-Langara Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)............................................. Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Pat (L).........................................................................Prince George North Belsey, Bill (L).................................................................................

North Coast Bennett, Bill (L) ........................................................................... East Kootenay Bhullar, Tony (Ind L) .................................................................. Surrey-Newton Bloy, Harry (L).................................................................................. Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L).........................................Prince George–Mount Robson Bray, Jeff (L)......................................................................Victoria–Beacon H ill Brenzinger, Elayne (L) ...............................................................

Surrey-Whalley Brice, Susan (L) ............................................................................Saanich South Bruce, Hon. Graham P. (L)................................................ Cowichan-Ladysmith Campbell, Hon. Gordon (L)............................................. Vancouver–Point Grey Cheema, Hon. Gulzar S. (L) ..........................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Chong, Ida (L)................................................................ Oak Bay–Gordon Head Christensen, Tom (L) .............................................................

Okanagan-Vernon Chutter, Dave (L) ........................................................................... Yale-L illooet Clark, Hon. Christy (L) ..................................................Port Moody–Westwood Cobb, Walt (L) ............................................................................. Cariboo South Coell, Hon. Murray (L) ........................................ Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon. Rich (L) .............................................. Fort Langley–Aldergrove Collins, Hon.

Gary (L).........................................................Vancouver-Fairview de Jong, Hon. Michael (L)....................................... Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L) .......................................................... Surrey-Cloverdale Hagen, Hon. Stan (L) ................................................................... Comox Valley Halsey-Brandt, Hon. Greg (L) ..................................................Richmond Centre Hamilton, Arnie (L)............................................................Esquimalt-Metchosin Hansen, Hon.

Colin (L) .....................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Harris, Roger (L)......................................................................................Skeena Hawes, Randy (L) ............................................................ Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Hon. Sindi (L).......................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ................................................................... Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Hon. Gordon (L) ........................................................

Surrey–White Rock Hunter, Mike (L) ...................................................................................Nanaimo Jarvis, Daniel (L)...................................................... North Vancouver–Seymour Johnston, Ken (L)............................................................ Vancouver-Fraserview Kerr, Brian J. (L).............................................................. Malahat–Juan de Fuca Krueger, Kevin (L).................................................

Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP) ...............................Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lee, Richard T. (L).......................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L)................................................................. Peace River South Les, John (L) .......................................................................... Ch illiwack-Sumas Locke, Brenda (L) ...........................................................

Surrey–Green Timbers Long, Harold (L) ...................................................Powell River–Sunshine Coast MacKay, Dennis (L)....................................................... Bulkley Valley–Stikine McMahon, Wendy (L).............................................Columbia River–Revelstoke MacPhail, Joy (NDP) ..........................................................

Vancouver-Hastings Manhas, Karn (L) .............................................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Masi, Reni (L) ...................................................................................Delta North Mayencourt, Lorne (L) ..........................................................Vancouver-Burrard Murray, Hon. Joyce (L) ........................................................... New Westminster Nebbeling, Hon. Ted (L) ..........................................

West Vancouver–Garibaldi Nettleton, Paul (L).........................................................Prince George–Omineca Neufeld, Hon. Richard (L)...................................................... Peace River North Nijjar, Rob (L)...................................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Nuraney, John (L) ...............................................................Burnaby-W illingdon Orr, Sheila (L) ...........................................................................Victoria-Hillside Penner, Barry (L).......................................................................

Ch illiwack-Kent Plant, Hon. Geoff (L) ......................................................... Richmond-Steveston Reid, Hon. Judith (L)............................................................Nanaimo-Parksv ille Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ................................................................... Richmond East Richmond, Hon. Claude (L) ................................................................

Kamloops Roddick, Valerie (L)..........................................................................Delta South Sahota, Patty (L).....................................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Santori, Hon. Sandy (L)..............................................West Kootenay–Boundary Stephens, Hon. Lynn (L) ........................................................................ Langley Stewart, Ken (L)...................................................... Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Stewart, Richard (L) ......................................................

Coquitlam-Maillardville Suffredine, Blair F. (L) ................................................................Nelson-Creston Sultan, Ralph (L)....................................................... West Vancouver–Capilano Thorpe, Hon. Rick (L) ..........................................................Okanagan-Westside Trumper, Gillian (L)................................................................Alberni-Qualicum van Dongen, Hon.

John (L) ................................................Abbotsford-Clayburn Visser, Rod (L).................................................................................North Island Weisbeck, John (L).........................................................Kelowna–Lake Country Whittred, Hon. Katherine (L) ...................................North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wilson, John (L)...........................................................................

Cariboo North Wong, Patrick (L)............................................................Vancouver-Kensington LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn....................................................... Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman ..............................................Hon.

Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum.......................................................................G illian Trumper Bulkley Valley–Stikine ..............................................................Dennis MacKay Burnaby North..............................................................................Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds............................................................................Patty Sahota Burnaby-Willingdon......................................................................

John Nuraney Burquitlam ........................................................................................ Harry Bloy Cariboo North ..................................................................................John Wilson Cariboo South .................................................................................... Walt Cobb Chilliwack-Kent ............................................................................. Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas .................................................................................

John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke....................................................Wendy McMahon Comox Valley .......................................................................... Hon. Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville .............................................................Richard Stewart Cowichan-Ladysmith .......................................................Hon. Graham P. Bruce Delta North.......................................................................................... Reni Masi Delta South................................................................................

Valerie Roddick East Kootenay .................................................................................. Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin...................................................................Arnie Hamilton Fort Langley–Aldergrove ..................................................... Hon. Rich Coleman Kamloops ....................................................................... Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson ........................................................Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country...............................................................

John Weisbeck Kelowna-Mission ................................................................ Hon. Sindi Hawkins Langley ............................................................................... Hon. Lynn Stephens Malahat–Juan de Fuca .....................................................................Brian J. Kerr Maple Ridge–Mission ................................................................... Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows .............................................................Ken Stewart Nanaimo..........................................................................................

Mike Hunter Nanaimo-Parksville ...................................................................Hon. Judith Reid Nelson-Creston.......................................................................Blair F. Suffredine New Westminster ..................................................................Hon. Joyce Murray North Coast ........................................................................................Bill Belsey North Island........................................................................................Rod Visser North Vancouver–Lonsdale.......................................... Hon.

Katherine Wh ittred North Vancouver–Seymour .............................................................Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head .......................................................................Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon .................................................................... Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside.................................................................Hon. Rick Thorpe Peace River North .............................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Peace River South .......................................................................

Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley ....................................................Hon. Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain.................................................... Karn Manhas Port Moody–Westwood......................................................... Hon. Christy Clark Powell River–Sunshine Coast.......................................................... Harold Long Prince George North................................................................................Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson................................................Hon.

Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca................................................................Paul Nettleton Richmond Centre......................................................... Hon. Greg Halsey-Brandt Richmond East .......................................................................... Hon. Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston ................................................................ Hon. Geoff Plant Saanich North and the Islands ............................................... Hon. Murray Coell Saanich South...................................................................................

Susan Brice Shuswap .............................................................................. Hon. George Abbott Skeena.............................................................................................Roger Harris Surrey-Cloverdale ................................................................. Hon. Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers .................................................................. Brenda Locke Surrey-Newton ............................................................................... Tony Bhullar Surrey–Panorama Ridge................................................. Hon.

Gulzar S. Cheema Surrey-Tynehead .......................................................................... Dave S. Hayer Surrey-Whalley ...................................................................... Elayne Brenzinger Surrey–White Rock ...............................................................Hon. Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard................................................................. Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview............................................................... Hon.

Gary Co llins Vancouver-Fraserview ...................................................................Ken Johnston Vancouver-Hastings .......................................................................Joy MacPhail Vancouver-Kensington...................................................................Patrick Wong Vancouver-Kingsway..........................................................................Rob Nijjar Vancouver-Langara....................................................................Val J.

Anderson Vancouver–Mount Pleasant............................................Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey ................................................... Hon. Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena............................................................ Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill.............................................................................Jeff Bray Victoria-Hillside.................................................................................. Sheila Orr West Kootenay–Boundary.................................................... Hon.

Sandy Santori West Vancouver–Capilano ..............................................................Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi ................................................. Hon. Ted Nebbeling Yale-Lillooet .................................................................................. Dave Chutter

CONTENTS Thursday, April 18, 2002 Afternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Introductions by Members....................................................................................................... ............................................... 2951 Tributes....................................................................................................................... ............................................................... 2951 Dennis Todoruk Hon. J.

Reid Statements (Standing Order 25B).............................................................................................................................. .............. 2952 St. George's Day M. Hunter Prevention of violence against women K. Manhas P. Sahota Oral Questions................................................................................................................. ......................................................... 2953 Review of Workers Compensation Board J. MacPhail Hon. G. Bruce Vancouver Community College programs J. Kwan Hon. C. Clark Principles for treaty negotiations W.

Cobb Hon. G. Plant Chevron refinery and pollution issue R. Lee Hon. J. Murray Second Reading of Bills ........................................................................................................ ................................................... 2955 Employment and Assistance for Persons with Disabilities Act (Bill 27) (continued) J. Kwan J. Bray S. Brice I. Chong V. Anderson B. Locke S. Orr J. MacPhail

2951 THURSDAY, APRIL 18, 2002 The House met at 2:03 p.m. Introductions by Members J. Kwan: Joining us in the gallery today are a group of very special individuals, people who are here to educate all MLAs in this House with regards to occu- pational health and safety and also to teach us about the experiences of injured workers and their families. Would the House please welcome Mona Sykes, Jackie White, Janet Cambrey, Jean Smith, Stuart Schon, Jack Harper, Sarah O'Leary, Bill Hawkins, Hugh Chamber- lain and Reynold Sokolik. I hope I pronounced that correctly. Would the House please make them very welcome. J.

Les: Mr. Speaker, from the great riding of Chilli- wack-Sumas I'd like to welcome to the House today Mr. Eldon Unger, a great friend and supporter. Would the House please make him welcome. J. MacPhail: Joining with my colleague to welcome e v e n m o r e p e o p l e h e r e a d v o c a t i n g o n b e h a l f o f s a f e workplaces are Sharon Popik, Lisa Paine, Ana Rahmat, Jackie Adams, Wayne Roberts, Carol Riviere, Tim Bail- lie, Dave Thompson, Jim Parker, Mike Odarich, Patti MacAhonic, Lee Loftus, Larry Stoffman, Betty Stevens, Brian Gleason and Bob McDiarmid. Please make those people welcome.

Thank you very much. [1405] P. Wong: Mr. Speaker, I am most pleased to intro- duce in the gallery 70 students from Sir Charles Tupper School, led by their respectable teachers Mr. R. Fergu- son, Mr. David Walton, Mr. Richard Harris and Ms. Leslie Bryce. Together with the 83 students that came from the same school yesterday, we have had altogether a total of 153 students from grade 11 and grade 12 history and social studies classes visiting this chamber.

Among them, there are many bright students who are inter- ested in pursuing careers in nursing, teaching, medi- cine and health care, computer science and many other trades and professions. These young people are willing to contribute and help rebuild British Columbia for the well-being of everyone in a new era. Among them is a student who is also a member of the seventy-third Brit- ish Columbia Youth Parliament, Edward Wang. Will the House please make them most welcome. H. Long: Today in the House I have three people with me who are ardent supporters, in fact, all my life — most of their life, I mean.

I have my daughter-in- law, Cheryl; my son Phil and my partner, Mary-Lynn, today in the proceedings. I'd like you all to make them very welcome. Tributes DENNIS TODORUK Hon. J. Reid: Mr. Speaker, I rise today on a sad note with regard to a tragic accident on the Trans-Canada Highway near Revelstoke last Sunday. Dennis Todoruk of Revelstoke was a senior roads foreman with VSA Highway Maintenance Ltd. Last Sunday the Trans-Canada Highway was closed be- cause of a mudslide in the evening. A crew from VSA Highway Maintenance was on the scene clearing debris from the slide when a second slide occurred.

During the second slide Dennis and the loader he was operat- ing were washed into Summit Lake by the slide. Dennis began with the ministry in 1975. He joined the private sector in 1988 and continued to work on the roads. He performed a vital public service for the safety of motorists. He felt that the condition of the highway was his responsibility and did his utmost to keep it in a safe driving condition. He was a dedicated, hard-working professional who had a reputation for doing what was needed to get the job done. I ask that our thoughts and prayers would be with his family. Introductions by Members B.

Belsey: Earlier this session I had the opportunity to share an experience in my travels to a community on the Nass River, Kincolith. Well, today a number of the community councillors and the chief councillor have joined us in the gallery. I'd like to introduce them: Nel- son Clayton, chief councillor; George Moore, village administrator; Peter Stevens Jr., deputy chief; Ray- mond Stewart Sr., councillor; Henry Stephens, council- lor; Floyde Stevens, councillor; John Stevens, council- lor; and Neil Okabe, band adviser. I would like the House to join me in making them welcome. T'ooyaksim Nisim. J.

Bray: Visiting us today in the gallery is Lorna Popham, who is a registered psychologist in my riding and also the most patient wife of our legislative comp- troller. Her granddaughter Heidi Steinbach is along with her today, visiting Victoria from her home in Olalla, Washington. I ask the House to make them very welcome. Hon. L. Reid: In the precincts today are Mr. and Mrs. Lorne Nesbitt. Lorne and I were working in the Richmond school district for many, many years.

He is currently retired, and he was one of those administra- tors — principals now — who indeed knew the name of every single child in his school and would welcome them by name as they entered the school in the morn- ings. [1410] I'd like the House to please make them very, very welcome.

2952 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, APRIL 18, 2002 I. Chong: Today I have a friend visiting whom I met some 20 years ago when we were both studying to become certified general accountants. Her mother had also taught me and actually became president of the CGA Association of B.C. She's actually a constituent of the Minister of Provincial Revenue in the Penticton area. We've long been friends, and she's here visiting and watching question period. I would ask the House to please welcome Maria Pattison. Statements (Standing Order 25

B) ST. GEORGE'S DAY M. Hunter: A number of members have asked why the member for Alberni-Qualicum and I are wearing white roses today. The reason is that we won't be sit- ting next week on Tuesday, which is St. George's Day. St. George is the patron saint of England, and it's an important day in our multicultural calendar. As an immigrant to Canad a from England, I think it's appropriate on this occasion to reflect on the contri- bution English culture has made to our province. Let me remind you of some people, products and inven- tions of English origin that benefit us all today.

Lead- ing the culture category I submit the most ubiquitous playwright of all time, William Shakespeare, whose birthday is also on April 23. I offer for your musical enjoyment the Rolling Stones, Elton John and the Beatles. If you want a good read, try C.S. Forester's tales of Captain Hornblower or Charles Dickens's por- traits of Victorian squalor. Or you can look at the se- rene and fabulous paintings of people like Turner and Constable.

You can ride the railways invented by Englishman George Stevenson on your way to watch a game of cricket or association or rugby football, where you might want to remind yourself that the concept of fair play was born on the sports fields of England. If your mind needs more thoughtful stuff, ponder the philoso- phy of John Stuart Mill or the colourful history of the M o t h e r o f P a r l i a m e n t s a t W e s t m i n s t e r . W h e n y o u g e t hungry, don't worry; be happy, because you can in- dulge in England's famed contributions to the culinary arts.

What's more appetizing than real English fish and chips, Yorkshire pudding or steak and kidney pie, all washed down by warm beer? What of St. George himself? According to legend, a pagan town in Libya was being terrorized by a dragon. The locals kept throwing sheep to it to placate it, and when it still remained unsatisfied, they started sacrific- ing some of the citizenry. Finally, the local princess was also to be thrown to the beast, but good St. George came along, slaughtered the dragon and rescued the fair princess. At this, the townsfolk converted to Chris- tianity. St.

George is the patron of soldiers, cavalry and chivalry, of farmers and fieldworkers, Boy Scouts and butchers, of horses, riders and saddlers, and of suffer- ers from leprosy, plague and syphilis. He is particu- larly the patron saint of archers, which in this place of sharp barbs gives special point when members relate these famous lines from Henry V next Tuesday. I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips, Straining upon the start. The game's afoot: Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!' PREVENTION OF VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN K.

Manhas: I rise today to mark Prevention of Violence Against Women Week. As my community and many around the province live with a constant reminder of the dangers many women face in society, I think it is of the utmost importance that we ac- knowledge and pay tribute to all the people and groups who dedicate their lives to wiping out violence against women. It is unfortunate that communities should need such a week to reflect on violence against women, but the reality is that we need to. Too many women are faced with daily abuse in their relationships, their home, their community and at work.

We must work to find solutions to this issue. We must effect change by changing our attitudes and behaviours. This cannot and will not happen unless everyone makes a choice to change. I'm glad to have the opportunity to stand up in this House and give my support to the Minister of State for Women's Equality for all the work she has done and continues to do to stamp out violence against women by directing resources towards essen- tial services so that women who face violence have a safe place to go.

Safe homes, transition houses and second-stage housing provide valuable and necessary services for abused women who are rebuilding their lives. We have also recognized that abuse is not just physical but emotional and mental, as well, and con- tinue to provide the funds for counselling. Moreover, w e r e c o g n i z e t h a t c h i l d r e n c a u g h t i n t h e s e r e l a t i o n - ships also face emotional challenges and difficulties, and counselling for them has also been protected. [1415] E v e ry s i ng l e p e rs o n ne e d s t o c o nt i nu e t o wo rk t o - wards ending violence against women.

Every person needs to know that this violence is wrong. We need to encourage and support women to speak out. We must work together to end violence against women, and I ask all members of this House and all British Columbi- ans to join me in making this a reality. P. Sahota: I also join with my colleague to mark the eighth annual Prevention of Violence Against Women Week. This year also marks the twentieth anniversary of the federal government's first Report on Violence in the Family: Wife Battering , which looked at the abuse many women faced in their homes.

This is an impor- tant week for all of us to acknowledge and fight against abuse that women face, but it's also about the recogni-

THURSDAY, APRIL 18, 2002 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 2953 tion of the tremendous steps women have made in our community to overcome obstacles. Let us also take this time to thank the hard-working people, men and women, who are helping women leave violent situations and raise awareness. I would like to take this opportunity to bring to the attention of the House the B.C. and Yukon Society of Transition Houses, which is working diligently to stop domestic violence against women in our province. This society offers important services in providing women and children safe refuge from violence.

In B.C. and the Yukon there are 63 transition houses, 15 safe home networks and six second-stage shelters that provide long-term housing. Each year over 90,000 Canadian women and chil- dren are admitted to shelters. In the year 2000 over 13,000 women and children in B.C. entered a shelter for battered women. We all know that the impacts of domestic violence are far-reaching, with statistics reporting that one-quarter of abused women admit- ted to shelters required medical attention. Statistics Canada's Homicide in Canada — 2000 reported that women were the victims in three out of four spousal murders.

This year the Society of Transition Houses is spon- soring the second annual Creating a Legacy of Hope Walk, taking place on April 28. The aim of the walk is to raise awareness of the issues of domestic violence and promote prevention of violence against women. Mr. Speaker, freedom from violence and abuse is fundamen- tal to the well-being of our society, and I encourage all members to participate in this very important event. I would like to thank the B.C. and Yukon Society of Transition Houses for their continued advocacy on behalf of all women who do or may face abuse in their homes.

We must all work together to end violence against women. Oral Questions REVIEW OF WORKERS COMPENSATION BOARD J. MacPhail: There isn't an MLA in this House who hasn't had their heart broken by the story of an injured worker. The Minister of Transportation and Highways eloquently recounted such a tragedy just a few mo- ments ago, but what every MLA needs to know, Mr. Speaker, is that the government is planning changes to workplace health, safety and compensation that will make things much worse for workers in B.C. Joining us in the gallery today is Jackie Adams.

Jackie is a single mom from Vancouver who is suffer- ing from a very severe work-related back injury. The Minister of State for Deregulation has pledged to cut life-saving workplace safety rules. He says employers will be left to work out the rules for themselves, but study after study shows that clear, consistent, firmly enforced regulations are the only way to reduce work- place accidents. To the Minister of State for Deregulation: can he pledge to Jackie Adams that he has no plans to cut or eliminate workplace safety regulations that protect B.C. workers from death, injury and disease? Hon. G.

Bruce: I , t o o , am p l e as e d t hat we hav e i n the gallery today a number of people who spent some time with members of caucus explaining to them the concerns, the difficulties and the challenges they face relative to living a life after some workplace injuries.

As the member fully knows and appreciates, this gov- ernment is undertaking a review and working hard to bring about changes to the Workers Compensation Board that will make it responsive to the needs of the people it's there to serve — something, of course, that we have known for quite some time needs a great deal more attention that what's received today. Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition has a supplementary question. [1420] J. MacPhail: I'm disappointed that the Minister of State for Deregulation didn't answer, because I wanted him to explain about his outcome-based performance measures.

The only outcome that matters is that no workplace deaths or injuries should ever occur. Also joining us in the gallery today is Janet Cam- brey. Janet's a community health worker here in Victo- ria who was injured on the job two years ago. She loved her job, but she'll never, ever be able to go back to it. Janet and her colleagues met today with members of the Liberal caucus and with us. They fear that the minister will cut WCB enforcement and privatize — and is already privatizing — critical WCB services and is eliminating the programs that make it possible to recover from injury.

To the Minister of Labour: can he assure the House, everyone in the House, that he has no plans to cut Workers Compensation Board programs or to privatize further any services? Hon. G. Bruce: These are very delicate issues. You're dealing with people who are in difficult circum- stances, and things that are easily said and brought up can cause a lot of fear and uneasiness for people. The fact of the matter is: the whole aspect of the WCB needs to be looked at, as the member opposite fully knows.

Not to be political but to be factual, the former government undertook a royal commission — I think it cost some $7 million — back in about 1997-98 and then chose to do nothing. This government understands the importance of having a WCB that is there for the people it is meant to serve, a WCB that is viable and effective and informa- tive and one that will be there for the protection of em- ployees and employers alike. We understand the need to fix the WCB, and that's what we intend to do. Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition has a further supplementary question.

2954 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, APRIL 18, 2002 J. MacPhail: All the Minister of Labour had to do was give the assurance that he was not going to cut the programs helping injured workers, and he refused to do so. In fact, he knows that important services have already been privatized and that the government is preparing to do for workplace safety what it's doing to hospitals: shut them down. Mike Odarich is an IWA worker from Cranbrook. Mike suffered a terrible injury to his face while work- ing in the forest. Mike returned to work in the forests. He was injured again, and Mike is now a paraplegic.

Mike depends on WCB benefits to live, and he's very worried that the government plans to reduce those benefits. He has reason to be worried. To the Minister of Labour: please, why doesn't he stand up and assure Mike and the thousands of other workers on WCB benefits that he currently has no plans to reduce the benefits to any injured worker? Just reassure them. Hon. G. Bruce: I'm almost offended by the ques- tion, but I understand the aspect of question period. The fact of the matter is, as you well know, the WCB needs to be fixed, and that's what we are working on right at this moment.

We are trying to fix the WCB af- ter ten years of neglect. I would love to drop into the political debate with you and go over the years of neglect that your former government, the NDP government, applied to WCB, but I will refrain from doing that out of courtesy and respect to the very people that we intend to help. VANCOUVER COMMUNITY COLLEGE PROGRAMS J. Kwan: This government has become known as the most mean-spirited one in Canadian history. The Minister of Human Resources is taking away support from thousands of disabled British Columbians, but that's not enough for this Liberal government.

The Minister of Advanced Education is forcing the elimina- tion of the individualized education program for adults at Vancouver Community College. This program helps students with learning disabilities get the skills, confi- dence and tutoring they need to graduate and make it on their own, and has been doing so for 24 years with an incredible track record.

But now, thanks to this gov- ernment, it's gone. [1425] To the Minister of Human Resources: will the min- ister stand up today, now, and explain how the elimi- nation of the funding to this valuable program would help the learning disabled to have a better chance to help themselves? Hon. C. Clark: You know, I work with the Minister of Advanced Education every day on adult basic edu- cation and making sure that we're providing the train- ing and the support that people need.

As the member was asking the question, I was sitting down trying to write a list of all the good things that the Minister of Advanced Education has accomplished in the last eight months since she was appointed to this office. I didn't get it quite finished because I didn't have enough time. She's talking about increasing the number of tech grads. She's talking about increasing the number of nurses and doctors and health care workers that we support. She's talking about allowing SFU to go in and clean up the mess that they created with Tech B.C.

She's talking about making sure that we maintain ac- cess to student assistance that is amongst the best in the country, and she's increasing the number of seats available to students who want to access post- secondary education in British Columbia. I think that speaks very strongly to the fact that this government is making education its number one priority, and we will continue to do just that. Mr. Speaker: The member for Vancouver–Mount Pleasant has a supplementary question. J. Kwan: Too bad the Deputy Premier did not an- swer the question at all on the issue around the indi- vidualized education program.

It is not only the program for the learning disabled that is being axed at VCC. The King Edward campus has one of the best programs in Canada providing ac- cess to post-secondary education for the deaf, access that they have been guaranteed by the courts. But be- cause of the budget cuts being forced on VCC by the Minister of Advanced Education, half the interpreters are to be laid off. This means, Mr. Speaker, that many deaf students will no longer be able to attend classes, and the hearing students will take their place. Just how heartless and mean-spirited can this government be?

Will the minister, then, stand today and commit to funding this program, and will this minister, with the aid of the closed-captioning this House provides, tell the students how she doesn't care about their future and their rights? Or will she do the right thing and reinstate the funding to make sure that they have a future afforded to them? Hon. C. Clark: Well, here's what I can tell her.

I can tell her that after a decade of plundering the public's purse, this government is committed not just to making sure that we take care of the needs and services that British Columbians have but to making sure that we protect the education budget in this province. We have protected the Ministry of Advanced Education budget. We have protected the Ministry of Education budget despite the fact that British Columbia is facing some of the toughest economic times that… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Hon. C. Clark: …we have faced in a long time… Interjections.

THURSDAY, APRIL 18, 2002 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 2955 Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The Deputy Premier has the floor. Hon. C. Clark: …as a result of a government that did not care. We are going to put British Columbia back on track, and making sure that we have a world- class education system and lots of access for students across this province is going to be fundamental to mak- ing sure that happens. PRINCIPLES FOR TREATY NEGOTIATIONS W. Cobb: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minis- ter Responsible for Treaty Negotiations.

The many provincial parks and other protected areas are open for the enjoyment of all British Columbians. In my riding Ts'yl-os Provincial Park, Tweedsmuir Provincial Park and Cariboo Mountains Provincial Park are admired by many British Columbians and tourists who come to experience the beauty of this area each year. Can the Minister Responsible for Treaty Negotia- tions tell us how the referendum will help to ensure that all British Columbians continue to enjoy these natural wonders? [1430] Hon. G.

Plant: The fourth principle and fourth question in the referendum ballot asks voters if they agree that the provincial government should adopt the principle that parks and protected areas should be maintained for the use and benefit of all British Co- lumbians.

The goal behind asking this question is to ensure that the province's treaty negotiators are at the table — where parks and protected area issues are of- ten discussed, where in fact all three parties often come to the table looking for ways to protect areas — with a principle that says that we will maintain a system of parks and protected areas for the benefit of all British Columbians. Mr. Speaker: The member for Cariboo South has a supplementary question. Interjection. W. Cobb: No, I've already marked my ballot.

It is important to all British Columbians, natives and non-natives alike, that we maintain a strong and thriving natural environment. Can the Minister for Treaty Negotiations tell us how a yes or a no to question 5 on the referendum will affect resource management and environmental issues in B.C.? Hon. G. Plant: Yes. Principle 5 engages the issue of provincewide standards of resource management and environmental protection, and here's why. As first na- tions assume control over treaty settlement lands, they'll have the ability to make land use decisions in relation to those lands.

We believe that the province should be at the table arguing for a set of minimum standards — the standards that we now have in British Columbia — for resource management and environmental protection that will apply as the floor across the province. First nations may be at the table arguing that they should have tougher standards or the ability to impose tougher standards in their communities.

Voting yes to question 5 means that the province is at the table say- ing: "We should have a set of standards across the province that will benefit all British Columbians, while at the same time allowing first nations, if they wish, the authority to impose more rigorous standards on their treaty settlement lands." CHEVRON REFINERY AND POLLUTION ISSUE R. Lee: My question is to the Minister of Water, Land and Air Protection. Maintaining the quality of the air we breathe is of the utmost importance to my con- stituents. However, a Chevron refinery in my riding has expanded its operations.

It will increase the volume of emissions released into the atmosphere. Can the Minister of Water, Land and Air Protection tell us what measures she has in place to minimize the impact of these pollutants? Hon. J. Murray: Clean air is one of the most impor- tant environmental issues that we face. The federal government actually has recently passed regulations to decrease sulphur in gasoline. As a result, Chevron in Burnaby will have to change some of their processes. They're saying that they may be requesting a permit for increased emissions.

Now, the previous government delegated the au- thority around those permits to the GVRD, so the GVRD will be making a decision on that permit. Actu- ally, I think it's very clear that we would encourage Chevron to take every step that they can to not increase emissions. Also, the reduction in sulphur in gasoline will im- prove emissions from cars in our airshed right across the province. We're very strongly in support of that regulation. [End of question period.] Orders of the Day Hon. R. Coleman: I call the continuation of second reading of Bill 27.

Second Reading of Bills EMPLOYMENT AND ASSISTANCE FOR PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES ACT (continued) [1435] On the amendment (continued). J. Kwan: I'm carrying on debate on the amendment put forward by my colleague from Vancouver-

2956 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, APRIL 18, 2002 Hastings regarding the request for the government to bring Bill 27 out to the community for a period of six months for consultation, discussion, review and com- ments before it is brought back to this House for de- bate. I would urge the members in this House to support this amendment. I mentioned earlier before the lunch break today how important it is for that consultation to be honoured. It's one that the minister himself commit- ted to, to the people in the community, to the Coalition of People with Disabilities.

They were expecting that the draft of the definition of disability would be brought to them for further discussion over the next two weeks before being debated in this House. To their surprise, shock and dismay, it has been brought to this House this week, and the government is trying to rush through all the stages of the bill. Earlier we were engaging in discussion around the tribunal process. I want to visit that issue for just one moment, because there are members of the public watching this debate who are very concerned about the actions of this government.

They have been phoning in to our offices, sending faxes and e-mails with their comments and thoughts on the changes that the gov- ernment is proposing. I have just received a fax from a person in the broader community — out in Penticton, as a matter of fact. She has given me permission to use her name in this House. It is Jeanette Wood in Penticton. I'm going to read her fax into the record: "It is with dismay and concern for the individuals within my community that I write to you today.

I sit on tribunals here in my community as a nominee for either the ministry or the appellant as part of the three-person unbiased process. Years ago I completed the training in order to participate as either a chair or a nominee. I had to become fully knowledgable around the Legislature. I am therefore fully aware of how the present community appeals process really works and how effective it is. "Often it is as a result of the community level appeals process that new information comes to light.

The tribunal is able, with the ministry representative's direction, to encourage the appellant to pursue and follow up with information not provided earlier. This allows the claim to be rectified at the local level — no need for the next appeal level. Far from being bureaucratic, it is a just and humane process. "I am so distressed and concerned for the individuals who are already hurting by being disadvantaged — no legal aid, no advocacy, no local appeals process. Where will they find the support they need? Shame on this government.

"Sincerely, Jeanette" She sent this fax in because she was watching the de- bate in this House. The member for Vancouver-Burrard claims that the changes the government is bringing about with regards to the appeal process are good for the community and that there will be community representation for the people who are appealing the decisions. In fact, noth- ing could be further from the truth. The appeal process is taken away from the community representation level, because the client — the appellant, if you will — will no longer be able to appoint their own representa- tive.

For that matter, neither will the ministry. [1440] The difference here is that the minister himself will be bringing forward the appointments of who will be involved in the appeal process. The appeal process that is being brought about by this bill is not one that is supported by the community at all — quite the contrary. It is shocking in terms of what this government has done and what they're pro- posing under Bill 27. The government members, the member for Vancouver-Burrard, like to claim that there was intensive consultation, significant consultation. I highlighted earlier how that wasn't the case.

Here's another statement made by Tom McGregor on CBC Almanac on April 16, when they found out about this bill. Here's what they had to say on the ques- tion from the host: "Did the government work with your groups and/or others in formulating this pack- age?" The response from Tom McGregor: "Not really. They gave lip service to consultation, but even that was a bit of underhandedness on their part. We had met with the government a week ago, where they shared the definition of the proposed draft, the proposed definition of disabilities. We voiced some of our concerns. They said: 'Okay. We have heard from you now.

Let's meet again in two weeks and try to iron it out, set up a technical table.' In the meantime we found out that the new bill is being introduced in the House yesterday, April 16. Really, the consultative process was nothing more than lip service." That's how this government, in their open, consul- tative, transparent new-era agenda, proceeds with con- sultation — nothing but lip service. It isn't just me, as a member of the opposition, who says this. These are the direct words taken from an interview on CBC on April 16 from Tom McGregor, who is a strong advocate for people with disabilities.

I mentioned earlier in the debate on Bill 26, which is another piece of legislation being brought forward by this Liberal government to attack the poorest of the poor, those who are on income assistance, the children, the single mothers, the single parents, the seniors on i n c o m e a s s i s t a n c e … .

I n t h a t d e b a t e I r e f e r e n c e d t h a t there are maps that have been produced by the minis- try for the month of January 2002 which showed the highest-density areas in the lower mainland that have income assistance caseloads and, likewise, the highest density for areas of disability 1 and disability 2 caseloads. My area, the area of Vancouver–Mount Pleasant, was mapped as the area with the highest den- sity for people in greatest need.

The second area is Vancouver-Burrard. [1445] Since the bill has been introduced, I have been re- ceiving numerous phone calls in my office from people who are worried sick about what this government is going to do to them with the passage of the bills — 20 to 30 calls a day. We get e-mails, faxes and so on. Some of the information has just come into my office.

THURSDAY, APRIL 18, 2002 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 2957 This information came in on the 18th, this morning, from one particular individual. I won't use their names, because I want to safeguard their privacy. I will read some of their e-mails onto the record to share with the members about how this bill is impacting them. "I have received disability for the last two years and am feeling terrified, with the slow recovery of my life now threatening to unravel with this cruel new legislation. I'm feeling hopeless about the future and having the old suicidal escape feelings again.

I can painfully imagine what people with HIV and other people much sicker than I must feel, with their tentative hold on life and having to face an additional Mount- Everest–sized challenge that they may not have the strength to meet. "You referred today to the questions you have previously asked the minister responsible about the specifics on the many changes he's making, and you quoted the answers you received.

They had a lot of 'I don't know' and 'I don't know yet' and variations on a theme of actually not knowing what he's doing before he wreaks havoc on an awful lot of real people's lives, on their relatives and friends and even on society and the economy. "Anyway, I thought a suitable name for the hon. minister could well be 'the I-don't-know minister.' I'm very shocked at the seeming ignorance and impracticality of the minister's plan. He should look before he leaps.

He hasn't, and the already-downtrodden will be where his failure lands." That's from one individual in the community who has forwarded this e-mail to me this morning. The individual must be referencing the comments I made yesterday with respect to the minister's answers during estimates on a variety of areas: the changing of the eligibility requirements for those who are seeking income assistance, what that process will be, the appeal process, the training programs and so on.

I read onto the record yesterday the minister's answers, which were variations of "I don't know." I think this individ- ual is referencing the debate from last night. Another letter has come in. "I am one of them. I'm a 50-year-old female on DB-2, disability 2, disabled with the chronic pain of fibromyalgia and migraines. Sometimes I can go three d a y s w i t h o u t p a i n a n d t h e n h a v e f o u r o r m o r e d a y s i n constant pain made worse by two old whiplash injuries. I wish I could plan my pain days so that I could get a part- time job, but I can't.

"The pain that is the worst is a burning, searing pain in my neck and shoulders. I can't do heavy housework, lift or carry heavy things. I can sleep only by lying on my back. I had to give up bodybuilding and a lot of things I enjoyed. Now I must pace myself and rest if I get the least bit tired. I wish I had a limp or a missing limb, because chronic pain stops you dead in your tracks, and sometimes medication doesn't even help. I'm all stressed out and in pain. "God knows, I can't work. Someday I'd like to be self- supporting with an online at-home business. Right now, I'm in the third day of pain.

Even my eyes hurt, so this e- mail is an effort. I hope the government doesn't expect me to work. Chronic pain is debilitating and, sadly, makes one very unreliable." [1450] Another e-mail from another individual: "I'm an advocate and try to help people when I can. I applied for DB-2 and was given an unlimited DB-1 and so forth. I did not have the energy to get help to reapply for DB-2, even though it could have meant help for me. "The only way I can survive day to day is by being in denial of my reality.

I have several major problems: scoliosis and a broken back — I was in a major car accident which dislocated my back; arthritis; and migraines. I am sensitive and allergic to almost everything, including most prescriptions, as my immune system is severely compromised. I have bad eyes and major foot problems, and, not the least for sure, I have ME, which is similar to MS but also affects the brain. "I have intermittent dyslexia and most days cannot depend on being able to read or to write numbers and even words — if I can remember what it was in the first place, due to several head injuries.

My children have gotten used to being called 'Hey, you.' "Please understand that I'm a talented and educated person, but with the ME goes the IQ, as well as dyslexia and the physical problems." This person wishes to remain anonymous, but as I said, I'm going to keep all the names of these individuals off the record. These e-mails come in because people want to let members of this House know, particularly government backbench MLAs and cabinet ministers, what their lives are like, what pains they're faced with every sin- gle day and how they're trying to cope to the best of their abilities.

Now they're under threat with the rede- fining of disability in Bill 27, redefining what people are able to be eligible for, for support and assistance. It puts people into a state of panic, in some instances — a high state of anxiety, with so much worry. I don't know what the answers are for these indi- viduals. The only answer I can think of is for the gov- ernment to not proceed with this bill and, at the mini- mum, for the government to hold off passage of this bill in this House at this very moment and support the amendment from my colleague from Vancouver- Hastings.

Delay the passage of this bill for six months. Let the information flow out to the community. Let the analysis be done. Let people's concerns be addressed and be voiced. T h e n c o m e b a c k t o t h i s H o u s e a n d e n g a g e i n a n - other debate. Maybe by then, the government, the Min- ister of Human Resources, might have been affected by the voices of these people, who seem, in this House, to be faceless but are real human beings that exist in our community.

Maybe their stories and their voices will be heard by this government, and this government may then change its mind by pulling the bill altogether and reworking it, bringing it to the next progressive step for the people faced with disabilities, bringing it forward from the existing bill now. By existing bill, I mean the former bill on disability but not this bill that's being tabled in the House and debated today. [1455] The person who wrote this last e-mail is someone who must have enormous strength, because along with the e-mail she also sent me some poems that she's writ- ten.

I thought I'd share a couple of these with members of this House just to show the talent which people with

2958 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, APRIL 18, 2002 disabilities do have. Sometimes they're able to share that. Sometimes they're able to more fully participate in the community, either by working or by volunteering or by just simply being a legitimate voice within the community. Other times they're not able to do that, and that's okay too. We must recognize them and embrace them, because they're fellow human beings. That's what soci- ety calls on us to do. We as government have that re- sponsibility.

Let me just share with you a couple of these poems that this individual has e-mailed to me to give us a better glimpse of the hardships that people with dis- abilities are faced with sometimes. A foot that gives out when you don't expect it, The gut-wrenching pain of a huge muscle spasm In the middle of your back That spreads down and into your legs And sets your whole body to screaming in despair. A body-doubling pain Grabs your lungs and diaphragm And won't let go Until you scream, If you can breathe. Not again! I can't do this anymore. I don't want to do this anymore. Let me out. This is not where I live.

I want to dance in the sun. I want to have a picnic at the beach And build castles in the sand. People with imaginary beings Who all live happily ever after With no pain. There's another one that she wrote: Pretending to be normal. I spend my days pretending to be normal, Pretending that I'm not in pain, That every thought that I have does not get derailed and carries on as expected, That I can actually make a commitment and stick to it. Pretending to be normal, Like everyone else, Carrying on as usual. I pretend, in fact, so well That most times I can fool everyone around me And even, Most especially, Myself.

I'll read this last one. There are pages of it. It's mov- ing; it's touching. I'll read this last one for the members of this House. Winter whistles in around the cracks in the windowpanes, And I fear the cold, And the dark depresses me And leaves me without hope So that by the time that spring arrives I want to leap for joy Just in celebration Of having survived Yet another winter. I'm too weary and apathetic From having carried the weight of winter On my broken back. These are the words of an individual who suffers from chronic pain from a variety of health problems and illnesses.

In spite of that, she struggles on. She even takes the time to watch the debate in this House and send in an e-mail with her thoughts and a plea to the government to: "Please, please don't do this to me and to so many others who have disabilities." She takes the time to do that, in spite of the great sufferings that she must be in every single day. I can only imagine what that must feel like. I can only imagine. I can't pretend to know, because I have- n't suffered as this woman has. I haven't suffered as many people with disabilities have, who have the courage to come back. They can't do this alone.

Government has a respon- sibility, and so, too, does society. Society expects gov- ernment to take the leadership role to make sure that people with disabilities have the full support that they need to maximize their potential. I believe this very firmly. Every single individual — no matter who we are, where we come from, what our backgrounds are — has huge potential. It only takes a moment in time for governments to make a difference so that those individuals could maximize their potential. [1500] That moment in time has arrived right here in this B.C. Legislature.

The government MLAs who are sit- ting here have that opportunity to make a difference in people's lives — a positive difference, one that says: "I'm compassionate, and I'm responsible socially and financially." The government can act on that by supporting the amendment put forward by my colleague from Van- couver-Hastings to not proceed with this bill, engage in a true consultative process, invite the people to whom the government has only paid lip service to date back to the table, sit down with them and genuinely work through how to change the disability act and how to make it better for the people in our communities.

This government, I know, is fond of saying that those individuals who speak against the government are special interest groups. They're not people who are looking at the issue with a broad picture. They are spe- cial interest groups. They say that about everybody, save and except for the people who are the big corpora- tions and who are the wealthiest British Columbians. Save and except for them, everybody else is a special interest group.

What is interesting on this issue is that not only people with disabilities and the advocates of people with disabilities are calling on this government to slow down, hold back and not come forward with these changes and with the redefinition of disability, thereby making eligibility very difficult if not impossible for people who are faced with disabilities now to get assis-

THURSDAY, APRIL 18, 2002 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 2959 tance from government. Others who don't have dis- abilities are joining the voices of those who are calling on government to not do this. Who are they? I read the Times Colonist editorial of April 17 into the record. The headline is "Government Showing a Lack of Basic Charity." "When is a disability not a disability? When [the Minister of Human Resources] redefines the term. "The Human Resources minister, who wants to cut 38,000 B.C. residents off the welfare rolls within three years, plans to include some of those with disabilities.

Disability activists estimate as many as 25,000 could lose their benefits. "So far, disability status has been granted anyone with unusual and continuous expenditures for transportation, special diets 'or other unusual but essential and continuous needs.' "The new law would define a disabled person as someone who needs help performing daily living tasks, though [the minister] says the definition will be redefined further. "Perhaps [the minister] is right, and the definition was too broad.

"If so, those 'disabled' citizens who have been receiving welfare will have to take advantage of opportunities the minister is offering to take training and find and keep jobs. "And those receiving benefits should be subject to periodic reviews to ensure they qualify. "[The minister] himself acknowledges it will be difficult to find work for people with disabilities, but it's for their own good. If they try and it doesn't work, he promises they won't have to wait for long for their welfare benefits to resume.

"The objective of saving $600 million from government expenditures is sound, but [his] ministry deals with the most vulnerable of this province's citizens. "The alternative to welfare is charity. Sometimes governments should offer both." This is the Times Colonist editorial point of view. Maybe that, too, is a special interest group. [1505] I have another one: Jody Paterson. On April 17 she writes "New Law Punishes Disabled." "Not surprisingly, the first thing to go was the warm and fuzzy

preamble. No more talk of inclusion, dignity and the importance of the social safety net in the mean new act that will soon govern the 55,000 British Columbians who receive disability benefits. "The old Disability Benefits Program Act doesn't mention mandatory work requirements. The new Employment and Assistance for Persons with Disabilities Act mentions them repeatedly and outlines the many and varied punishments for breaking them. "The old act considered you an eligible disabled adult at age 18. The new act makes you wait until 19 and adds a disabled youth category that starts at 16.

Barring hard evidence of permanent disability based on criteria that have yet to be developed, those youths will be expected to work too. "Try to fight the employment plan that the government develops for you and you will find out that anything to do with the plan is 'final and conclusive and not open to review by a court on any ground, or to appeal.' Refuse a job, quit without cause or get fired, and your benefits will be reduced. Breach anything in the act more than twice, and you'll be cut off for life.

"The old act defined disability as any severe mental or physical condition lasting longer than a year or two that left people either in need of extensive help in performing daily tasks quickly or facing 'unusual and continuous' expenditures for transportation or special diets. "The new act dumps the diet and transportation clause, requires that the condition last at least two years and considers people disabled only if their ability to go about their daily lives is 'directly and significantly' restricted to the point that they can't manage on their own.

"In other words, brace yourself for a sea of change. [The] Human Resources minister calls it 'moving people into jobs and off income assistance.' Hardly. The new disability benefits act is nothing more than a way to cut spending at the expense of people too poor and powerless to fight back. The government doesn't jump when this group hollers. "Advocates for the disabled figure that half of those currently on benefits won't be eligible under the new act.

Everyone receiving benefits will have to prove themselves eligible all over again when the new act takes effect later this year, and no doubt the 11,000 on level 1 disability — considered temporary assistance — will be the first to go. The government has already quit counting that group in its total of those receiving disability benefits. "Trying to get people working is a good thing, of course. If the government truly wants to get people off of income assistance by finding them jobs, that's a noble and meaningful undertaking. "But there's no sense of that in the new disability act.

Shake out the spin from [the minister's] carefully chosen statements, and all that's left is a mandate to chop $5 million in welfare spending in the next three years. There's no evidence of employer incentives or of tax breaks for parents whose disabled adult children will increasingly be forced to live at home. There's no reason to believe that jobs are out there for the taking.

"'Is there a vision here?' asks one worried mother of a brain-injured young woman whose behaviour routinely gets her fired from her part-time jobs. 'If you want these people back in the workforce, what protections are there to be built in to keep them there?' "The 24-year-old's family is frightened for her future. She 'looks normal,' a curse when the government comes looking for reasons to cut people off. She's already losing her subsidized bus pass, the result of a previous round of cuts.

Up until now she could keep $200 a month and another 25 percent of whatever income she earned on top of her benefits, but the government has changed that to a flat $300. "Her family says it's been like stumbling into little disasters at every turn. But if the new disability act goes ahead as planned, they ain't seen nothing yet." "Government Showing a Lack of Basic Charity" — this is a recent

article in the Times Colonist. There's so many letters to the editor and comments from individuals about what this government is doing, but I want to touch on this. We just received a letter from the office of the in- formation and privacy commissioner. The letter just came in on April 18, today. It expresses concerns about the government's actions, on the lack of consultation even with the office of the information and privacy commissioner with respect to the drafting of this bill.

2960 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, APRIL 18, 2002 The commissioner lists all the areas on which they have concerns, and then it's outlined

section by section. [1510] Under the general comments part of it, the commis- sioner highlights the issue of what the government must do in terms of consultation and making sure that individual's privacy is respected and notes that this government must engage in this process as their prede- cessors have done before. The commissioner is concerned, and he's listed his concerns in his five-page letter.

He concludes with this paragraph in his letter, and I'll quote this onto the re- cord: "Last, as you may be aware, my predecessor established a formal agreement, through an exchange of letters with the predecessor ministry at the time of the changes to the BC Benefits (Income Assistance) Act, to ensure that this office is consulted on the ministry's ISAs before they are signed. I suggest that this commitment should be renewed in light of the new legislation. I'm available to answer your questions or to discuss this matter further." I think this is a very important point.

I know, from having been a minister before, that what we tried to do every time we had a bill before us — and sometimes the bills may well have had privacy issues that touched on individuals' lives, and we wanted to make sure that the privacy of those individuals was fully protected — was then consult with the privacy commissioner to seek his advice to make sure that the bill did not violate any privacy rights of individuals. To that end, the for- mer Ministry of Human Resources actually signed an agreement with the office of the information and pri- vacy commissioner.

This government needs to do the same: make sure that they consult with the privacy commissioner's of- fice and make sure that commitment for consultation with the office for the protection of individuals' privacy is maintained. They need to renew that agreement with this government. H o n . S p e a k e r , I h a v e m u c h m o r e t o s a y w i t h r e - spect to this bill and the changes to this bill that this government is trying to rush through in the Legisla- ture, depriving the public of the full opportunity to review and comment on the matter and to be fully con- sulted.

As I said before, every member of this House has an opportunity to act and to make a difference in people's lives and to be remembered by the people to whom they've made a difference. And don't do it just because you'll be remembered; but do it because it is the right thing to do. We have that opportunity today. It's not too late. Members could support the motion put forward by my colleague from Vancouver-Hastings calling on the gov- ernment to delay the passage of this bill for six months so that full consultation could take place.

I would urge every single member to check themselves internally when they rise in this House and participate in this vote. I hope they will do the right thing — not by defi- nition from the government Whip, not by the definition of the Premier's office, but the right thing by the com- munity's expectations, hopes and dreams — and sup- port the amendment put forward by the member for Vancouver-Hastings. [1515] Amendment negatived on the following division: YEAS — 2 MacPhail Kwan [1520] NAYS — 52 Falcon Coell Hogg L. Reid Halsey-Brandt Hawkins Whittred Hansen J.

Reid Bruce van Dongen Nettleton Roddick Masi Lee Hagen Murray Plant Clark Bond de Jong Stephens Weisbeck Chong Penner Anderson Orr Brenzinger Belsey Bell Long Chutter Mayencourt Trumper Johnston Christensen Krueger McMahon Bray Les Locke Nijjar Bhullar Wong Cobb Visser Brice Sultan Hamilton Kerr Manhas Hunter [1525] On the main motion. J. Bray: I'm pleased to be able to rise and speak on Bill 27. It's somewhat disheartening after the rather long debate of the Leader of the Opposition and her colleague from Vancouver–Mount Pleasant. Now that they've encouraged other members to rise, I see they've left the chamber.

I'm not sure whether or not they got word the press gallery has left, but that's a bit disap- pointing. In debating Bill 26, I rose and raised a lot of fairly technical issues, given my experience as an employee of that ministry in the front lines as well as in the pol- icy division. Many of the issues I raised in the Bill 26 debate are very much the same in Bill 27, in part be- cause much of Bill 27 and Bill 26 are identical, so I will limit my comments to some of the specific things deal- ing with people with disabilities.

I guess one of the issues I want to talk about is the importance of having a distinct bill for people with disabilities. As others in this House have mentioned, people with disabilities do have unique needs. The focus of government service does need to recognize

THURSDAY, APRIL 18, 2002 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 2961 that, and it needs to be somewhat different and more specialized and more sensitive to the needs of not just the person with disabilities but the family that may be supporting them and, in fact, the community in which they may live. It's along that line that I think I want to focus: on some of the supports that may be available to people with disabilities and my concern that while the act is only a portion of what will come out…. The regu- lations will follow.

I have only had an opportunity, of course, to look at the act, so that's where I have to focus my comments. When I spoke on Bill 26, I spoke about the impor- tance of having people with multiple barriers still on the caseload after the changes from B.C. Benefits and the fact that those individuals needed more than just one intervention to move them from welfare or income assistance into the employment market. I think it's a logical assumption to make that somebody with dis- abilities certainly requires that and in fact, one can ar- gue, requires a great deal more.

I note, first of all, that in the bill there are sections that deal with the funding of and creation of commu- nity supports for training, retraining, employment and employment support. Having worked with people who have had the disability designation, I know the difficulties they face. Those are compounded beyond those just for people with income assistance.

I spoke at some length a couple of days ago in this House about the reality of the 45-year-old who's on income assis- tance, may have been on it for ten years, may not have all their teeth and may not have very good clothes and the prejudice they face when they attempt to apply for work. No matter what interventions government may provide, no matter how hard they may work, the real- ity is that employers will not see them as desirable for employment, and it will make it very difficult for them to be able to attach to the workforce.

I k n o w t h a t i s e v e n m o r e t r u e w i t h p e o p l e w h o have a visible disability, people who may have…. Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition rises on a point of order. Point of Order J. MacPhail: I know the member is new, but as he well knows, attendance in the chamber is not for public record. There are duties to be done throughout the Legislature, and I would ask him to withdraw that comment. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Hon. members, order, please. Order, please. Hon. members, comments about a person's at- tendance in the House are not to be tolerated. Thanks.

I would ask the member to please withdraw the re- marks. J. Bray: I certainly will withdraw that remark and accept your guidance on that point, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: Thank you, hon. member. Please pro- ceed. [1530] Debate Continued J. Bray: I was talking earlier about the fact that people with a physical disability that is obvious…. It creates an additional difficulty sometimes when they're entering the workforce, where there are multiple peo- ple applying for work. If they're also dealing with is- sues of poverty, that just exacerbates that difficulty like it was for the example I had earlier.

It's really vital, Mr.

Speaker, that government ser- vices focus attention on ensuring that there is a contin- uum of supports to take that person with a disability right through from the point at which they enter, where they may be dealing with getting their educa- tion, perhaps getting their GED, perhaps attending adult basic education — that as they move through, perhaps they're receiving some additional life-skills training or other training to allow them to participate in the community, to be able to engage in relationships that ensure that they can hold secure housing, maintain relationships with family members and others in the community.

Then, as they move into more specific job training where they are actually in the process of learn- ing a skill, learning how to do résumés, learning how to conduct themselves in job interviews…. In fact, they will then need to continue to access additional supports. There may be physical accommo- dations that will allow them to be employable, where there may be the need for assistive devices in the workplace — mobility aids, visual aids, these types of things. [J. Weisbeck in the chair.] Bill 27 implies that those services are there.

My work with the minister will be focusing on ensuring that the services we contract out in the community meet those needs and the high-acuity needs that people with dis- abilities have — not just for those individuals with dis- abilities to get into the workplace but some of the sup- ports required to maintain people in the workplace. One of the concerns I have is that we make the cul- ture shift out in the community services with our con- t r a c t i n g m o d e l .

I k n o w t h a t i n V i c t o r i a w e h a v e o u t - standing community support providers and commu- nity providers, educational providers and social service providers. They are adaptable; they are flexible. In many cases, in their meetings with the Minister of Children and Family Development, they are willing to engage in any shift that's required to achieve govern- ment's goals.

My concern is that we won't make as progressive a change as perhaps is needed for people with disabili- ties, many of whom are eager to enter the workforce, are eager to be full participants not just in the life of their community but also in the economy of their community. I want to ensure…. I'll be very interested

2962 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, APRIL 18, 2002 in debates during committee stage to look more into this

section of the act that deals with those services. As a general rule, one of my other areas of concern — which is different from the opposition, which unfor- tunately used the debates here to read articles and en- gage in some fearmongering; I know they accuse us of accusing them of that — is that people with disabilities are perhaps the most vulnerable people in our society. I think most people will consciously realize that. Well, as my colleague from Vancouver-Langara pointed out a few days ago in this House, poverty also makes people exceptionally vulnerable.

When you're dealing with a system that is the payer of last resort for the people most vulnerable, we have to be very sensi- tive to that reality. We have to make sure our act, our regulations, our policy and our service delivery out in the field are aware of that — that we're dealing with an individual. [1535] We're dealing with individuals who are living with sometimes very horrendous physical and/or mental impairments that are a challenge just to meet the day, just to get up out of bed and try and face the day. When you have the added factor of poverty on top of that, it can be a daunting task.

I hope I never find out, with the grace of God. I sometimes wonder whether I would have the courage that those disabled clients that I had faced every day. They didn't need the added burden of a rigid, bureaucratic, policy-driven system that really couldn't meet their needs to allow them to achieve their goals, which are the same as govern- ment's. I am very interested in the debates we will have in committee stage, because there are some sections that I am concerned about. We've had a lot of circular debate by members of the opposition on the definition of dis- ability.

I know the disability community wants to make sure a definition exists that reflects a person's disability so that somebody who has a disability that impairs their ability to participate in the community doesn't get left off because of that. That anxiety is a legitimate anxiety. I believe the minister is working very hard. We will discover further, hopefully, in committee stage exactly how this definition is going to work. I must confess that at this point I do have some concerns about that.

I have had some questions in my constituency of- fice about the reviewability of people already with dis- ability benefits level 2. The reality, for the sake of our debate here, is that if basic income assistance is $500 and disability benefits level 2 is $770, for the average citizen that $270 is a reasonable amount of money in a month. For somebody who's living in poverty, it is a huge amount of money. We also know that we tend to live to our means.

Most people in society, if they're working and get a raise, do not do what all our financial advisers would suggest, which is to take that raise and put it in the bank. We usually increase our consumer spending to that amount. It might be that we buy more clothes; it might be that we can afford a bigger apartment. We might even be able to purchase a home. We might pur- chase a vehicle or a new vehicle. We tend to create the lifestyle that matches our income. The reality is that people currently on disability benefits level 2 are living to the means of $771 a month.

That may well mean that they are spending more than the allotment of $325 on their shelter, but in part their disability may require a larger apartment. They may require an apartment located in a more expensive area of town but closer to their supports, their doctor, their therapists. They've been able to do that because they've had the security of $771. The fear of having to return to $500 would mean that almost all of their income would be going to their rent now. Perhaps it would require a move to a place that would not be appropriate for their disabilities.

That's the anxiety that people at disability benefits level 2 and their family members have expressed. That anxiety is there, and it's real. I believe that we in this Legislature will need to deal with that. The other issue. One of the advantages that I al- ways advocated to my clients for disability benefits level 2 was the permanency of the status.

One of the biggest problems with the Canada Pen- sion Plan disability pension is that if you try to re-enter the workforce and you're successful — I may be incor- rect, but I believe it's for six months — you eliminate yourself from any future eligibility for a CPP disability should your disability act up or, for that matter, you arrive at a new disability. It discourages many people from re-entering the workforce, because the security of that pension is based on them not working. The advantage of the disability benefits level 2 des- ignation was that it was a permanent designation.

That meant that even if somebody on disability benefits en- tered the workforce and left income assistance, should their disability recur or become such that they couldn't remain in the workforce, if they had to return to the income assistance office, that designation with the higher benefits and the medical benefits was already there. There was no reapplication for that status. I think that was a great amount of security for peo- ple with disabilities, who were always much more tenuous in their ability to stay permanently attached to the labour force, especially people suffering from epi- sodic mental illness.

They would have great periods of time with perfect health, but when they did have a break, especially a psychotic break, it would be severe, and it could be a couple of years before they were able to recover enough to re-enter the workforce. So secu- rity in disability benefits in areas of disability is very important. [1540] The other issue is that people with disabilities rely on those around them much more than the average citizen. We all tend to need people at various points in our lives, and sometimes we're the ones providing care and nurturing and support for others.

People with dis- abilities tend to have to rely on others on a more con- sistent basis, perhaps even a daily basis, so for family members who are on income assistance and living with

THURSDAY, APRIL 18, 2002 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 2963 the issues of poverty, the added burden of having to care for their family member and not having that secu- rity is also a strain they have to deal with. Although I think Bill 27 provides a better opportu- nity for people to enter the workforce, there is some concern that people who are providing support for a disabled family member may actually have to enter the workforce in order to keep the family eligible for any benefits.

That is an issue I will want to explore further with the minister during committee stage to ensure that just like the current regulations, a single parent who is caring for a special needs or disabled child is not required to look for work — not prevented, but not required as a factor of ongoing income assistance — and that a family with a disabled adult will get the same consideration, should they actually be the pri- mary caregiver for someone who needs that daily assis- tance. I'd also like to speak a bit about Bill 27 from this standpoint.

My colleague the member for Vancouver- Langara spoke very eloquently, I think, on a lot of the emotional issues around income assistance, and I per- haps focused two days ago on the more technical. One of the criticisms I saw as a fieldworker in the Ministry of Human Resources some years ago, when I was in the field, was that it was a deficit-driven model. When a person applied for income assistance, one of the routine things we would do would be to list all the barriers for somebody to being on income assis- tance. We'd say: "What's wrong with you? Why are you here?" That's the point at which we would start.

That's about the only discussion we would have, and we would move forward on that list of deficits. One time I was visiting a community service pro- vider in Abbotsford, and they had taken a completely different approach. They focused on the assets of the individual. They focused on the assets of the commu- nity. They saw where the two of them could work to- gether and saw the niche or needs in the community that the person could then meet. To me, that whole asset-based model was very exciting.

Bill 27 does recognize the capacity of people with disabilities to be full participants, but I would like to see that we perhaps focus more on individuals as as- sets in their community. They are assets in the commu- nity not just because they work. I believe that children are the hugest assets we have, but traditionally, when people applied for income assistance, we said: "You're a single parent. You've got children. That's a barrier." I'd like to see us look at the fact that a single parent must have tremendous assets to be able to raise chil- dren when they're living in poverty.

I believe that people with disabilities who may not be able to be permanently attached to the workforce are, in fact, assets to their community. They may bring great intelligence to the people who meet them. They may have great artistic skill they can bring to their community. They may have great love and nurturing they can share with their community. They may be terrific parents themselves. They may be terrific broth- ers and sisters themselves and provide great support and encouragement to their family members. They may not be able to work 40 hours a week in a general occupation.

I would like to see that when we talk about people's independence, although employment is the primary way of being independent, it is not the only way. Bill 27 perhaps needs to recognize more that the potential we want people to achieve may or may not include paid employment and recognize that if a person with disabilities is able to volunteer, perhaps give guidance to others with a similar disability, that is a valuable contribution to their community. [1545] That is maximizing their potential for independ- ence, but it won't actually make them leave income assistance.

Perhaps their ability to be independent means they can provide enough self-care to allow a spouse or other family member to enter the workforce. The person may not make enough for the whole family to leave income assistance, but the potential that's be- ing maximized is still the important factor. My final point, perhaps, on Bill 27 is a recognition that I spoke to earlier during Bill 26. This act does not stand alone. It can't stand alone when government provides services. Yes, it's a separate piece of paper.

The minister and I have had long conversations, as I have with the Minister of Children and Family Devel- opment.

Government must make sure that we look across the spectrum of the government services we provide to ensure that a person with disabilities is re- ceiving the income support they require but is also receiving the community support funded from gov- ernment that they require — the home care, the medi- cal attention they require — that their children are re- ceiving the education they need and that the array of services is coordinated and focused so that government gets maximum benefit for the money it spends, but the individual receives services that work in a coordinated fashion for the promotion of their independence and the well-being of their family, the health of their family and the health of their children.

There are several sections that I will be reviewing very closely during committee stage. I want to say that I appreciate the minister having been so open to me and other private members who have gone and seen him a lot. He's answered a lot of the questions very well for me and for my constituents, and I know that he will continue to do so. Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to rise today. Thank you very much. S. Brice: I rise to make comments on Bill 27. I'd like to make my observations in the full knowledge and expectation that everyone in this House looks to sup- port those with disabilities.

The support and the care of those most vulnerable in our community is not the purview of any party, of any group. It is embraced by every member of this House. Government has come forward with a bill specifi- cally tailored for the needs of the disabled. This bill is worthy of our consideration.

2964 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, APRIL 18, 2002 As I listened to the minister speak, the key words that I heard were assistance, opportunity and inde- pendence. These words are the underpinnings of the support for persons with disabilities which this bill provides. There is a new definition for person with disabili- ties in this legislation which will ensure that resources and supports are there for these individuals with dis- abilities. This specifically designed legislation will re- spond to the distinct needs of this community.

The definition will be based upon the functional limitations that individuals may face in the activities of their daily living. The execution of this policy will require know- ledgable and sensitive professionals administering well-reasoned regulations. I'm confident that given the sensitivity of these issues, the minister will ensure that the regulations are designed to protect and assist these vulnerable persons in our society. In addition, gov- ernment has maintained the current funding rate for persons with disabilities.

I understand the minister will also outline how he will provide a comprehensive framework to assist those who are able to move into employment. That is the key. Obviously, not all persons with disabilities will be able to consider employment, because of the nature or severity of their disability. For those who can transi- tion into some form of volunteer or paid employment, this legislation provides opportunities. That is the aspect of this legislation I would like to focus on. Employment, work — w h a t d o e s i t p r o v i d e for us? What does work give us?

If we are abled or we are disabled, if we are at the high income or the low income, what does employment opportunity give us? [1550] It gives us the obvious financial rewards. I mean, that goes without saying. We work because we need money. We need money to support our families. But w o r k p r o v i d e s s o m u c h m o r e . I t p r o v i d e s u s w i t h a sense of worth. It puts us out in the mainstream of so- ciety. It puts us out there talking with others who are in the workforce. We become a significant part of society, because we are one of the producers. It gives us a sense of value.

A n y o f u s w h o k n o w w h a t i t ' s l i k e t o b e s e e k i n g employment when we have previously been employed know how difficult it is and how, once again, when we have been recognized, taken in and are part of the workforce, we do feel a part of that greater society. Things to share, things to talk about, interaction with fellow workers, a sense of dignity, opportunities to grow and to learn new skills — many of these are learned at the worksite. These rewards, of course, are shared by all able and disabled workers. We've got more in common than we do not have in common.

These rewards apply to entry- level jobs right through to the highest-trained techni- cians and professionals. These are the rewards shared by all of us in society. Should people with disabilities be discriminated against in their efforts to be a part of this shared work experience which enables one to be a full and contrib- uting member of society? No, of course they shouldn't. Intuitively, we as parents know that. We look to the future for the opportunity for our children to be a part o f t h a t w o r k f o r c e . W e k n o w t h a t t h e r e w i l l b e s o m e individuals who won't be able to take

part in that ex- perience, but the more people we can provide that op- portunity for, the fuller their life will be and the richer our society will be. Not every disabled person has the supports they need. As my colleague the member for Victoria–Beacon Hill pointed out, a lot of the programs that will be in place to assist people enter the workforce will be abso- lutely critical to fulfil the thrust of this legislation. In my riding I have a father who has come to my constituency office, and we have talked about his fam- ily and his child.

He has a child with significant dis- abilities, and he knows what he wants for his son. He wants his son at some point to be a part of the work- force. So this dad, while he's maintaining a full-time job now himself, has also started up a business that he knows will have an opportunity for his son, who has considerable disabilities, to be able to work in. He says, "I know when my boy is in his late teens and coming to adulthood, he will want to be a part of the workforce," so he has taken on that incredible responsibility to look to the future for his son.

Not everyone has these opportunities, but thank goodness, some of the most enlightened employers in our community have recognized and acted upon the talent pool of persons with disabilities. We have em- ployers in our community who have determined that there is a resource in the community that should be tapped, brought in and made a part of their organiza- tion. They know that these workers are eager to work, that they bring particular skills, and they oftentimes make very loyal employees.

These enlightened em- ployers are already reaping the benefits of this talent pool. [1555] Naturally, people have questions around this legis- lation, because we are dealing with the most vulner- able. An employment strategy is being developed that will support persons with disabilities in part-time and cyclical employment, in self-employment with earnings exemptions that will support increased independence.

The ministry will increase the amount, under the earn- ings exemptions, that persons with disabilities can earn while on income assistance from the current $200 up to $300 a month, feeding into what is the natural incentive that drives all of us: incentives to allow us to fulfil our potential. These clients will have access to both main- stream job placement and training for job programs, as well as other programs for persons with disabilities. Bill 27 sets the stage for assistance, opportunity and independence for those folks who face incredible chal- lenges because of their disabilities.

The minister has identified opportunities for these British Columbians so that they can achieve satisfaction and a degree of independence — the degree of independence they are capable of achieving, recognizing the severity of some of the situations. It will be essential that this legislation

THURSDAY, APRIL 18, 2002 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 2965 is very carefully and thoughtfully administered. It must add to the quality of life for persons with disabili- ties and not add additional stress to an already chal- lenging life. Bill 27 has much to support. This act recognizes that the distinct needs of people with disabilities are best served by this separate income assistance legislation. The minister has recognized the particular needs. This act, as well, provides for continuous assistance for those individuals who are not able to work due to their disabilities.

This act recognizes that many people with disabilities want to work and are not able to work full- time but possibly part-time, with proper supports. Employment plans for people with disabilities will not include time limitations for receiving disability assistance. Persons on this plan will continue to receive disability assistance as they participate in programs, and if they leave assistance for employment, they will keep their designation and maintain their medical as- sistance.

We all know of cases where people have been con- cerned that if they do leave assistance and take on an employment opportunity, should their disability worsen or should they return to the situation they were in previously, they in fact would be dealt out and not be able to continue on assistance. This legislation pro- tects them from that eventuality. They will not have to reapply — for persons with a disability status — should they be unable to continue working.

It will be necessary — more than that, vital — that the implementation of these changes be done carefully and sensitively to ensure that the clients are well served. I know that the minister has positive expecta- tions for persons with disabilities, and I know he'll be following its implementation with great care. I welcome this opportunity to bring my thoughts to this piece of legislation that we are considering, and I look forward with anticipation to the detailed discus- sion at the next stage. I.

Chong: Firstly, let me say it was time to combine the four BC Benefits acts into two pieces of clear legis- lation that will allow this government to focus specifi- cally on providing assistance to persons on a tempo- rary basis as wel l as to persons in need of continuous assistance. [1600] Today I'm going to speak to one of these bills: Bill 27, Employment and Assistance for Persons with Dis- abilities Act.

Let me say at the outset that I support this act, as it will allow this government to provide assis- tance and opportunity for British Columbians who are working toward independence and for a more fulfilling life. In particular, people with disabilities have told the ministry that their distinct needs would be better served by separate income assistance legislation. That is what is happening. Our government has listened and our government has heard those concerns, which is why today we do have Bill 27 to reflect those distinct needs.

Contrary to what the opposition may say or may imply about Bill 27, it does provide for continuous as- sistance for people who are unable to work due to their disabilities. Bill 27 does provide a continuum of em- ployment supports for people with disabilities who are able to work either full- or part-time. The NDP would have us all believe that persons with disabilities are not employable. That is simply not true. There are many people with disabilities who want to work and are able to work, either full- or part-time, with proper supports.

I believe we must assist all em- ployable persons to reach their goal of sustainable em- ployment. This government is doing just that. This act acknowledges that those with disabilities who cannot work will not be subject to time limitations for receiving disability assistance. Again, this act ac- knowledges that those with disabilities who cannot work will not be subject to time limitations, contrary to what some of the naysayers may be saying. The government and the ministry have a responsi- bility to ensure that resources go to those who are truly in need.

This legislation ensures that ongoing assis- tance will be available for persons who have either a severe mental or physical impairment that will likely continue for at least two years and that is considered to be directly or significantly restricting the person's abil- ity to perform daily activities continuously or for ex- tended periods of time. Not all disabilities or impairments are permanent. People's health can improve. An illness can be cured.

With today's new medicines and technological ad- vances, new treatments are occurring such that it is possible for persons with disabilities to participate in the economy. For those employable persons with dis- abilities, they will be required to work as they are able to — as they are able to and as their disabilities will allow them to. Mr. Speaker, I would like to share a few stories with you and with my colleagues about why I support this legislation. I've seen how the status quo, the NDP way of solving problems, worked. It just didn't.

About six years ago there was an organization in greater Victoria that employed many persons with dis- abilities. That organization was called the Goodwill Enterprises for the Handicapped. It was specifically benefiting persons with disabilities by providing work opportunities and self-worth. Persons with disabilities w e r e a b l e t o w o r k f l e x i b l e h o u r s . T h e y w e r e a b l e t o work flexible shifts as their disabilities allowed. Some of these persons had learning disabilities. Some had physical disabilities. Others had mental challenges.

It was understood that they might not work as efficiently as an abled person, but it was important that they be given an opportunity to work. [1605] Well, what happened to that organization? I'll tell you what happened to that organization. The NDP began some social engineering, and by way of changes to the Employment Standards Act, these persons with disabilities were no longer considered suitable to work under the terms and arrangements that had once pro-

2966 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, APRIL 18, 2002 vided them with an opportunity. It meant that persons with disabilities lost an opportunity to work, an oppor- tunity to be trained and an opportunity to have a more fulfilling life, and that was wrong. I went to the Legislative Library and had my staff pull some articles, because I wanted to be sure. It was in 1996 that all this happened. Strangely enough, the day they had to close down was September 11. We should all remember September 11, a very tragic day indeed.

For those individuals back in 1996, it was their tragic day, where they were told that they could no longer work in this particular enterprise. It was very sad. There were some 30 people there, I recall, just shortly after my election, that I received some letters and phone calls about. They couldn't un- derstand, particularly some who were representing those with mental challenges.

They said: "How do I tell m y s o n o r d a u g h t e r t h a t s h e c a n ' t g o i n t o w o r k a n y - more, that she can't share time with these people she's met, and that he or she won't be able to learn more about how to contribute to society?" These individuals couldn't understand why a government would have interfered with their lives in such a way. I would like to continue on with this, but I am ad- vised that my colleague would like to make an intro- duction, so at this time I'll yield the floor for him to do that. Introductions by Members P. Nettleton: I ask leave to make an introduction.

Leave granted. P. Nettleton: I am delighted today to be able to welcome from my hometown, Fort St. James, 12 stu- dents from Fort St. James Secondary School. Welcome to Victoria and the Legislature. I'd also like to welcome the two teachers accompa- nying the students from Fort St. James, Terry van Meer and Gloria Duncan. Please join me in giving these folks a great big welcome. Hon. S. Bond: I, too, seek leave to make an intro- duction. Leave granted. Hon. S. Bond: Paul and I….

The member for Prince George–Omineca and I are excited today, and that's why I did something you're not supposed to do in the House, which is name a person. Having said that, we are thrilled today to have a group of students also here from Prince George. It is always exciting for us to be able to have students in the precinct. Accompanying the students are their teachers, Suzanne Sharpe and Mark Lafleur. We're very pleased t o h a v e t h e m i n t h e p r e c i n c t a n d , i n p a r t i c u l a r , s o m e - one who is almost a part of my family, Ms. Brandie Peck.

I want to ask the members to certainly make all of the students and their teachers very welcome in the precinct today. Debate Continued I. Chong: I would like to continue with the story I had regarding this organization that was once here in greater Victoria and that offered opportunities. It's not the only organization that provides for that opportunity.

You also have a place like the Garth Homer Centre, which provides opportunities and training for people who have challenges and disabili- ties but who have a place to go. [1610] I suppose, in their wisdom, the previous govern- ment was trying to level the playing field to ensure that everybody was entitled to a minimum wage. While we all support minimum-wage legislation, one-size solu- tions sometimes don't fit all because we're not all one- size people.

When you take a look at a group in our society for whom we are all challenged to provide as- sistance to and help them meet their potential, we have to take a look at what opportunities we can provide for them. Where there are non-profit organizations that provide for that, we should be encouraging them on that opportunity. But that wasn't to be, so all organiza- tions have to take a look and see if it's time for them to be more profitable or to stay profitable.

If the situation requires that they pay an able-bodied person the same as they would pay someone with a disability with minimum-wage requirements, it would mean that an enterprise would more than likely choose an able- bodied person. In any event, this organization left our town, and unfortunately those people who were work- ing there had to go back to their homes, and their par- ents and families tried their best to console them. I also recalled, shortly after my election in 1996, another group of people who came to my office. Again, they were people with disabilities. They were adult newspaper carriers.

I recall very vividly one lady who indicated to me that she couldn't walk for long periods of time because of her physical disability, but she en- joyed the opportunity to get up in the morning, deliver newspapers on a particular route that could just about meet her potential before she was physically worn out. Because of changes, again, to employment standards, she was told that minimum hours of work had to be required, and therefore it was necessary for an able- bodied person to do her job. She was very saddened by that, and she came to me for help.

Admittedly, the government had a further look at that legislation and did provide for some exemptions, but it just shows that government interference sometimes is not the best when you're trying to level playing field for people for whom there are differences. Those people that we were attempting to help back then, in fact, were being more restricted. There are persons with disabilities who lose their jobs and persons with disabilities who lose an oppor- tunity to have a more fulfilling life. That is not what I

THURSDAY, APRIL 18, 2002 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 2967 want to see happen in the future. With this legislation I see an opportunity for us to reach out to those persons with disabilities to say that we are very interested in knowing that if you wish to participate in a full- or part-time job as your disabilities allow you to, then come and see us because we're going to help you. We're going to help you do that, because it will make you feel better about yourself. It will give you more independence, and it will make you become less reliant on government. There's a councillor in the city of Vancouver.

I don't know him very well, but I've met him on a number of occasions. I imagine we would all look at this person as a person with a disability. He is to be admired. He is an exemplary role model, and he represents an employ- able person with a disability. That person is Councillor Sam Sullivan. I'm sure members in this chamber know of him — those from the lower mainland — and I've only had the opportunity to meet with him a few times. I did it because I had heard about him. I had heard that this councillor who was confined to a wheelchair ran for city council and was elected.

Because he repre- sented a diverse community, he was not only repre- senting his community, but he was even further trying to represent a diverse community by every day choos- ing to learn one phrase in Chinese because, as we all know, in the lower mainland there is a huge Chinese population. [1615] I went up to him, and I said a few words to him, and he spoke back to me. I was very surprised because his accent and his linguistics were a bit better than mine.

I applauded him, and I said: "How do you man- age this?" He said: "Every day I try to learn a little bit more and pick up this language because I still want to represent that community." I think he surprises people in that community. The reason why I found out was because people in the Chinese community told me they were very proud that there was this councillor who cared enough and who, with all his personal situations like his disability, took the time to learn about their community. I thought that was wonderful — and as I say, a man to be admired.

It just shows that we should not discount that those who have disabilities want to be employed and want to be employed on a full-time basis, because some of them can be and some of them want to be. Last year and this year again during the estimates debate I questioned the Minister of Human Resources t o l o o k a t w a y s t o e n s u r e t h a t s e l f - e m p l o y e d p e r s o n s with disabilities would also be considered when his ministry is implementing change and devel

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0418pm-12
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0418pm 12
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	2e5fdea00180cf9e148ae1d5500135194061bdc9

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