VOL. 2 SECOND SESSION OF THE THIRTY-NINTH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD: 3:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.m. MONDAY, MARCH 7, 1983 NO. 2

March 7, 1983 Tape No. 39 SD - 1 The House met at 3:00 P.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please! STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, before we get into the friendly hour 1 I thoug~I had better give the House a report with respect to a telex that I forwarded to the han. Jean Chretien on "Saturday morning, as "We11 as his response -to -meplrid:ch 'came to hand only about .nalf an hour ago,and that is why I do not have a formal statement as such. I have given a copy of the telexes to the Leader of the Opposition (Mr.

Neary). I apologize I do not have a formal s-tatement 1 but r do want to read the text of the telexes and make a certain comment with respect to them. On Saturday morning I received a telex from Mr. Mas~n, President of Mobil Canada, indicating that Mobil Canada and the partners would be here in St. John's on Monday at 7:00 p.m. for the purpose of a meeting with these people to discuss the defiance of our order to cease Winter drilling and matters relating to Winter drilling. As soon as I got that I sent a rnes:sage to the hon. John Chretien at his offic~- and,because it was Saturday 1 his horne address as well.

I will give the text of it here.'Since issuing our order to cE Winter drilling we have been attempting to arrange a meeting with Mobil and all partners to discuss with them all matters relating to the order and their--non-compliance with it. It was only this morning that r received notification from Mobil that the companies· concerned can be in St. John's at 7:00 p.m. on Monday, March 7, to meet with government. The meeting will be held in the Cabinet Room at Confederation Building. At that meeting we shall once again be drawing to the attention of 84

March 7, 1983 Tape No. 39 SD - 2 MR. MARSHALL: the companies the circumstances and factors, the urgency of which required us to issue that order and which still requires compliance with it.

Included in our discussion will be the presentation of a report prepared by our Petroleum Directorate after consultation wiLl "'~~·"':;: ''"'P<= _.L._L::> _c;_nc agencies such as the International Ice Patrol. 'We remain as firmly convinced as ever that a reasonable and prudent assessment of facts would lead to no other conclusion than Winter drilling should be halted for the remainder of this season. 'I really believe from public statements you have made that you are not fully aware of the facts which point to the serious ·ness and urgency of the situation.

I therefore invite you to personally attend with me that meeting in St. John's Monday evening. ' I s -incerely believe once you are aware of the facts and circumstances · upon which we based our decision, you will fully appreciate the potential enormity of the consequences o,f continued ignoring of our order. 'I do hope you can attend that meeting and will be very happy to welcome you there.' The following response, as I say, came to ha _nd about twenty minutes ago that r will read i± in total as well. It is addressed to me from Mr. Chretien, and 85

March 7, 1983 Tape No. 40 NM - 1 MR. MARSHALL: it reads as follows: "I have received your Telex with respect to your meeting this evening with Mobil and its partners. I ~ ... . - -. understand that tonight's meeting was originally scheduled fur last lhursday. At t:hat time you did not see fit to invite me or any federal representatives. You suggest I am not familiar with the facts respecting operating conditions off~ shore Newfoundland. This is not so.

Safety is my uppermost priority and therefore my most senior officials keep me fully briefed on a daily basis about weather and ice conditions affecting drilling operations. "Winter drilling is proceeding under conditions which are within the safety standards agreed upon by the Government of Canada and the Government of Newfoundland last November. At that time our two governments agreed that drilling on the Grand Banks should continue throughout the winter.

"It is true that ice conditions off the East Coast are unusual this season. ~here is heavy pack ice near the shore and an unusual number of icebergs~ However, the pack ice does not affect drilling rigs operating some 280 kilometers from shore, ~here are no icebergs presently threatening the safety of the crews or their rigs. The nearest iceberg is grounded sixty-three kilometers Northwest of the West Venture rig. The next closest is 300 kilometers Northwest. No icebergs pose a threat at this time for drilling operations.

Nevertheless,in addition tb the normal iceberg watch, three ice patrol aircrafts are flying daily to survey ice conditions, two by Mobil and one by the atmospheric Environment Service. The International Ice Patrol also ~Z:?~ _.c::l.!l_t __ ~plane from Gander for the same purpose. 86

March 7, 1983 Tape No. 40 NM- 2 MR. MARSHALL: ''Mobil as operator is also confident that operating conditions are well within safety limits. Mobil has standing instructions from me to cease operations at any time it has reason to believe that safety requires such action. And if I ever had such a 'Jelief I would exercise my jur~sdiction to make these orders necessary to ensure safety. "I regret to say once again that you are using safety as a political tool.'' AN HON. MEMBER: That is untrue. MR.

MARSHALL: "It is too much of a co . .incidenct:e that you issued your 'order' jus.t after the Newfoundland Court of Appeal decision on jurisdiction -• If you were not playing politics,you would have been prepared to consult with federal officals. COGLA's chief engineer, Mr. Leo Brandon, was in St. John's meeting with your officials in the Petroleum Directorate the day you issued your•order;but he was not told about your concerns. Further,Sunday, Feberuary 27th., you refused to allow your officials to meet with COGLA officials and Mobil to discuss operating condif:ions offshore • . .

"I note that you now want to resume a co-operative assessment of conditions.offshore. I therefore ask Mr. Brandon, who is my chief engineer responsible for offshore operations,to attend the meeting this evening. I look forward to receiving Mr. Brandon :.' s report of your meeting. I can assure you and the families and friends of all of those working offshore that while there are dangeJS inherent in offshore oil and gas operations at any time,I would not allow operations to continue unless safety standards and conditions are met in all seasons." Now just a brief comment on that Telex, Mr.

Speaker, so that I can put it in context. First of all I can say 87

March 7, 1983 Tape No. 40 NM - 3 MR. MARSHALL: I sincerely and deeply regret that ~- Chretien cannot personally attend the meeting as I had asked him because I really believe that if the gentleman were in attendance here tonight before the companies, ·-an~ i'f he did have an opportunity to assess the report that has been prepared :Oy the J?etroleum Directorate on the basis of independent evidence, , that he would come to an entirely BB

March 7,1983 Tape No. 41 ah-1 MR. MARSHALL: different conclusion than the conclusion indicated in this T.elex and from his statements themselves. When the gentleman says in his Telex that, 'I understand tonight's meeting was originally scheduled for last Thursday•and he was not invited last Thursday, now is that a reason for not attending a meeting tonight? You know, I cannot see it. Originally the meeting of Thursday was convened for the purpose of discussing the defiance of the companies with the order of the provincial government.

We expanded it when it could not be held last Thursday to discuss the urgency of the facts relating to the matter and it was with a sincere desire to see that ~rr. Chretien was fully apprised of this that I sent him the telex. He talks -- ~ ... ..... ..J. --- ·.;::,._. about Winter drilling and that the two governments agreed that drilling on the Grand Banks could continue throughout the Winter. I would add, not wishing to be argumentative, that one of the things in the statement was that we presumed there would be an adequate presence of Search and Rescue, which was proven not to be on February 16th and 17th.

Furthermore, those Winter dri.lling regulations, Mr. Speaker, were not written in stone. And it was the Government of Newfoundland 1 by the way, let nobody mistake it, which promulgated those guidelines. And we consulted with the federal government. But the fact of the matter is that neither Newfoundland nor Canada 1while they might prescribe the guidelines for Winter drilling, Mr.Speaker, it is nature wnich prescribes the conditions in which those guidelines operate and it was nature that came in with all its fury on February 16th and 17th which 89

March 7,1983 Tape No. 41 ah-2 MR. MARSHALL: required us to have an objective assessment of it. And the review is necessary. I repeat just again 1the review of that is necessary .because of that experience of February 16th and 17th, as has been made fully public , because of the response of Search and Rescue and ber:<nJ f",P., very importantly, Mr. Speaker, of the forecast of such concerns as the International Ice Patrol which comes out with such startling statistics that in the area of Hibernia this year there are 120 icebergs which were sighted as compared to 40 in 1972.

And in 1972 it happened to be the worst year on record for ice conditions. If -you take the ·Int-ernati-onal Ioe Patro~ -statistics .s.ince 1900 1you will find in this area an average of 9 per year balanced out over the period of time as opposed to 120 this year. And that is the reason for our concern and our deep and our heightening concern. It is no answer 1 as the hon. gentleman says,to say that there are no icebergs presently threatening the West Venture. There were no icebergs threatening the West Venture, Mr.

Speaker, the Monday before the Wednesday,and on Wednesday you had a tempest, an inferno in the North Atlantic with 68 foot waves, 80 knot winds and a 100,000 ton iceberg threatening the West Venture with anoth~r one within 14 miles of the West Venture and another one within 5 or 6 miles. And this situation can - God help that it does~-but it can pertain at any given time when you consider the scientific facts available.

An: item that I would draw to everybody's attention that I think is very sad here-and I identify it because the people in the press have not got the telex yet, but they will- but I particularly draw their attention to Paragraph 8 ,where it says that'Mobil ·as operator is also confident that operating conditions are well within safety limits. Mobil 90

March 7, 1983 Tape 42 EC - 1 MR. MARSHALL: has standing instructions from me to cease operations at arty time it has reason to believe that safety requires such action. And if I ever had such a belief,I would exercise my jurisdiction to make these orders necessary. . .' Now, here you go~ :;tou see, Mr. Speaker, all of the onus is on Mobil. They are going to leave it to a company that is drilling out there the entire decision with respect to safety of individuals concerned. Are they not just a little bit concerned, as we are, Mr.

Speaker, that there might be a slight con£lict o£ interas:t .be±we.en _:the .economi.c desires o.f that company not to lose money and the safety of workers them- selves? So, Mr. Speaker, this is an indication of the federal government's complete capitulation of responsi- bility - MR. WARREN: Bun.kuiri! · -B;,;.nkum! MR. MARSHALL: , If the han. gentleman over there,who seems to want to interrupt in a very serious matter,would know anything about the federal regulations, he would also know that inherent in the federal regulations is precisely that7 they rely on the companies.

We do not rely on the companies; we rely on the Petroleum Directorate, the International Ice Patrol and independent factual agencies. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. MARSHALL: . Now, Mr. Speaker, I want to mention this business of it being political and this business of jurisdiction. ~oak, he talks of Mr. Brandon having been in.. He mentions it; it is not my penchant to mention names of public servants, But he has . it in the Telex th.at Mr. Brandon was in the Petroleum Directorate, and so he was that afternoon. So he was fully informed, Mr.

Speaker, of all of the facts relating to the situation on the basis of which we were going to make a decision. But obviously 91

March 7, 1983 Tape 42 EC - 2 MR. MARSHALL: no public servant could presume what the decision of Cabinet would be. They were told that day . -- -. . - - exactly in full force of all the seriousness of the factors that led us to the decision~ they were brought before them. When he talks about 'Y?U refused to allow your officials to meet with COGLA officials th .at day,' yes, Mr. Speaker, I certainly did, because Mr. Mason, the person whom me relies on so avidly, called me up and said to me he wanted to have this meeting .And it .was .. q.W..:ta .obv.i.D.us .he wanted .to .h.ave ... . techn i Ci!

J • meeH ng .W give the impression that this Province was reconsidering the rationale of its decision to stop Winter drilling. T.his government is not going to reconsider that, Mr. Speaker. ln the light of the experience of February 16th and 17th, in the light, M~. Speaker, of the inadequacy,· the prcven inadequacy of Search and Rescue,and in the light of the reports from concerns like the International Ice Patrol, Mr.

Speaker, anybody who want to reconsider their position knowing those facts,.. if they do not know the facts you can say,'The poor individuals do not know the facts' - if they know the facts, though, Mr. Speaker, and they permit it when they have any moral or legal responsibility, you could only style and describe them as complete and absolute madmen. So that is why, Mr. Speaker, I did not agree with that. At the same time, I indicated that I wanted to speak with the oil companies with respect to their defiance of the order and that is the purpose of the meeting tonight, and that is the real pity, Mr.

Speaker, as to why the federal minister cannot see his way clear to come down. I genuinely regret his attitude, I regret his whole attitude with respect to these things since the breakdown of the negotiations. I regret that the hon . 92

March 7, 1983 Tape 42 EC - 3 MR . MARSHALL : gentleman has to descend to depths of questioning the integrity , the good faith and the bona fides of individuals . This whole situation, Mr . Speaker, is extremely serious,and I want to say to this House that my concern , the government's concern, the people on 93

March 7, 1983 Tape No. 43 MJ - 1 MR. W. MARSHALL: this side of the House,and I hope all Newfoundlanders 1 is to realize, have an appreciation of the potential gravity of that situation out there on the Grand Banks and to get those rigs in.

Then after this regrettable episode is over, and we get .-_that:· as· a result of ~ ·~. telegrams like this 1I think all Newfoundlanders can afford then to W:-ing their hands in frustrations and wonder what will happen to the offshore when responsibility lies with a government that so obviously is prepared from 2,000 miles away to listen to nobody but the oil companies,and at the same time there is reasonable and probable grounds to believe,on the basis of independent assessments,that the lives of the people who are working out there are in danger. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. S. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Russell): MR.

NEARY: Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker. The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. Mr. Speaker, first of all let me say that _the official position of the Liberals in this Province for over a year now has been that Winter drilling be banned. Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, we were not able to persuade the hon. gentleman who just spoke,and his boss and the adrninistration,to follow our suggestion and that was to ban Winter drilling.

The matter has been raised in this House, it was raised in this House on two or three occasions 1in the last session,and I have the hon. gentleman's comments here in Hansard, when the hon. gentleman refused point-blank to listen to a very valid suggestion and recommendation that we made from this side of · the House. The hon. gentleman pooh-poohed it because it was made from this side of the House. Last October and November, the hon. gentl~~n and his colleagues agreed ~~ow Wi_nter drilli_ng! . Mr. Speaker.. They dediced to a·llow 94

March 7, 1983 Tape No, 43 MJ - 2 MR. S. NEARY: Winter drilling and they allowed Winter drilling in November, December, January and up to a few days ago when the hon. gentleman took his decision to order the rigs to come in to shore. The situation in Januar y ¥'as just as bad ~-s . it: ·: was when the hon. gentleman took his decision. So Mr. Chretien may be right in asking the hon. gentleman why· he · decided to wait until the Newfoundland Appeals Court had made its decision before he decided to do something about this matter.

We brought a resolution to the National Liberal Party Convention in Ottawa in November and had it passed to ban Winter drilling, that is how serious we were about it, Mr. Speaker, but the hon. gentleman pooh- poohed everything that we said about Winter drilling. Mr. Speaker, I am dismayed, I am amazed to hear from Mr. Chretien's telegram that he had a meeting ten days ago and invited the hon. gentleman to send along an official to that meeting and the hon. gentleman refused to send an official to attend a meeting that was convened by Mr. Chretien on this very matter. 95

March 7, 1983 Tape 44 PK - 1 MR. NEARY: Mr : Speaker, it would almost seem to us from the way the han. gentleman has been conducting himself in this matter, I am almost convinced that he is hoping that something will happen. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Order, please! MR. MARSHALL : On a point of order! MR. SPEAKER: A point of order, the han. President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: ltr. Speaker, it is not within t.he . .ru.les .o.f .this .

House .t.o impugn . .the motives o:f any.body 1 And I do not think that anybody could impugn the motives of anybody in a more diabolical fashion~ I would ask that the han. gentleman withdraw that remark? MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! It is certainly a very good ' procedural point that han. members are not permitted to impugn motives of other han. members and I would ask the han. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) not to do so. MR. NEARY: &:>, Mr. Speaker, it does not make any sense for the ~ederal Minister of Energy (Mr. Chretien) to come here to attend a meeting. MR. MARSHALL: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: A potnt of order, the han. President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: As l Had'understood Your Honour's ruling, I thought Your Honour's ruling was to the extent that you . are not allowed to impute motives, ·that the han. gentleman was imputing motives and that the han. gentleman is du~y bound to withdraw. MR. NEARY: You do not run the House , you know. 96

March 7, 1983 Tape 44 PK - 2 SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: The Speaker made his ruling. Mr. Speaker, to that point of order. ~R. SP~AKE~ (Russell) : A point-~f ~rder, the han. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, it would seem to me that the minister is challenging the Speaker's ruling, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Withdraw. MR;. NEARY: Mx~ Speaker~ i.f .:the .hon. gentleman wishes to challenge Your Honour's ruling, there is a procedure •. ~he han. gentleman cannot stand in his place in this House and challenge the Speaker's ruling and expect to get away with it.

So I would suggest, Mr. Speaker, that all my han. friend is doi~g is trying to cut into my time because he cannot stand the criticism that is being levelled at him. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! The Chair ruled that it is certainly out of order for any han. member to ~mpugn the motives of another han. member. The Chair did not give the opinion that the han. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary} was doing so, and certainly did not get the idea from the President of Council (Mr. Marshall} that he was challenging the Speaker's ruling. MR. NEARY: So, Mr.

Speaker, it would seem - AN. HON. MEMBER: Sit down! Sit down! MR. NEARY: Would the han. lapdog ke~p_quiet for a few minutes? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear! hear! ___ ,, ___ _ 97

March 7, 1983 Tape 44 PK - 3 MR. NEARY: It does n·ot want to make any sense, Mr. Speaker, fpr the Federal Minister of Energy - {Mr. Chretien) to come here to attend a meeting set up by the Minister of - well, I do not know. I am not sure if the hon. gentleman is the Minister of Energy or not - set up the hon. Minister without Port£olio, who speaks for the 98

March 7, 1983 Tape No. 45 JV - 1 MR. NEARY: Petroleum Directorate. The fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker, that the bon. gentleman unilaterally tried to shut down the drilling on the Grand Banks without prior consultation with the Federal Minister of Energ~ (Mr. Chretien Now, Mr. Speaker, if that is not playing politics, I do not ,know what is! The hon. gentleman, if he was sincere and genuine in conducting these negotiations, would not rush into the House with his telex and a copy of a telex from Mr. Chretien he received a fe .w minutes ago that he had not time . to digest, unless he wanted to play politics.

These negotiations are better conducted, Mr. Speaker, in privacy. MR. MARSHALL: I had time to digest it. MR. NEARY: Beg your pardon. MR. MARSHALL: Maybe you would not have time to digest it but I had time to digest it . MR.NEARY: The han. gentleman admitted when he read Mr. Chretien's telegram that he . had only received it a few moments ago. Mr. Speaker, I am sure that if the hon . gentleman had prior consultation and had communicated his desire to have the rigs brought in off the Grand Banks, if he had to have prior consultation with Mr.

Chretien to shut down drilling off the East coast during the Winter months, I am sure that the situation would have been resolved. It is unfortunate now that we have this squabbling and bickering going on in public, Mr. Speaker. It is just another example of how the Administration cannot sit down to the negotiation table and settle anything. They cannot settle the .ir differences even when it involves the lives of the people who are working offshore. As I said, Mr.

Speaker, we in the Opposition took the position last fall that there should be no further Winter drilling on the Grand Banks until such time as procedures were put in place to evacuate these rigs to protect human life on board of these rigs. We were ignored th~, Mr. Speaker, and the han. gentleman ignored calling in the rigs 99

March 7, 1983 Tape. No. 45 JV - 2 MR. NEARY: during the worst storm that we had in the Winter so far this year, two or three weeks ago. The han. gentleman waited until after the Newfoundland Appeal Court had handed down its decision before taking the drastic action that he took. So, Mr. Speaker, rather than carry on this squabDiing and bickering and confrontation that the Administration is noted for in this Province, would it not be better if the hon. gentleman swallowed his pride, admit, Mr. Speaker, that he is now looking like a school boy, that all he. is doing is yapping? Yap, yap, yap!

That is all you can hear from the hon. gentleman day in and day out. Why does not the -Admini-Btra:tion :swallow tbe'i:r t'ride -and -sit "down ·with ·the federal authorities at the negotiation table and settle this matter Mr. Speaker, before another disaster takes place in this Province. The hon. gentleman was warned before about a disaster and he pooh-poohed it MR. WARREN: And he . would not listen. MR. NEARY: - and he would not listen. MR. WARREN: Right on~ MR. NEARY: And now he. is not listening again. He would prefer, Mr.

Speaker, to come in to the House and take to the radio and television and squirt his poison, get his re¥enge on Ottawa, get aut his spite for the Newfoundland Appeal Court for the decision they handed down, instead of going about his business quietly in a statesman-like way and ,j 100

March 7, 1983 Tape No. 46 SD - 1 MR. NEARY: sit down to the negotiating table man-fashion and come up with a deal, come up with some kind of an arrangement immediately, Mr. Speaker. I challenge the han. gentleman to do it immediately, never mind coming into the House ~rying t~ :~ ~ ~~s revenge and his spite out on Ottawa and squirt his poison at Mr. Chretien and Ottawa. MR. TOBIN: Do you support Chretien? MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the han. lap dog should keep quite when we are talking about serious matters in this House. We are talking about serious matters. 1l!r.

Speaker, I cilallenge -the han. gentleman to put aside partisan policies for a while, especially on this matter that involves the safety of the workers who are working on the rigs offshore, and sit down man-fashion and see if they cannot come to some kind of an agreement. Never mind the one-upmanship, never mind the hon. gentleman trying to s-how everyi>ody that he is the boss, he is going to throw his weight around when the Newfoundland Appeals Court told him he was not the boss. Forget that. I know the han. gentleman is still smarting under that 0 ~he hon. gentleman has to forget that and put it aside.

Th .e hon. gentleman has· to realize, Mr. Speaker, that he is looking sick on this matter, he is looking like a little schoolboy and it is time for the hon. gentleman to behave like a statesman and try to get tFds matter resolved in the best interest of all concerned. SOME H.ON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER (.Russell)_: Order, please~ It is the general understanding that members · of the Opposition replying to a Ministerial Statement are permitted half the time th.at the minister has taken and the time has expired for the Leader of th .e 0pposi tion. 101

March 7, 1983 Tape ~o. 46 SD - 2 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Before we continue,I would like to welcome to the galleries a delegation from the Municipal Council of Peterview in the person of Mayor Hibbs, Deputy Mayor Sheppard and Counsellor Sampson. · On behalf of all hon. members I welcome you to the galleries. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: Are there any other Ministerial Statements? ORAL QUESTIONS Mit. ·~: ''The ·non~ ''b!ader o'f -the 'Opposi:tion. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Spe~ker, I have a subject I want to ask a few questions on, but I would like to ask the hon. the Premier if he can clarify something for me before I ask my questions. It has to do with a statement that the han. gentleman made a few weeks ago in connection with the appointment of th .e Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe), when the non. the Premier stripped the Minister of Development lMr. Windsor) of the Mines portfolio and stripped the President of the Council, the Government House Leader, lMr. Marshall) of the Energy portfolio.

Mr.'Speaker, in view of the fact there s~ems to be confusion over who is the real Minister of Energy in this Province ,- everytimei near a CBC report they refer to the hon. gentleman, the President of the Council, as Minister of Energy - could I ask the hon. the Premier to tell this H:ouse and the people of this Province who is the real Minister of Energy? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I mean, it is really incredible. I think we went through this once before.

Just imagine,in this House now today the first question that would be asked in Question Period is the clarification of ~ow 102

March 7, 1983 " Tape No. 47 NM - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: the Government of Newfoundland operates, I mean by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr . Neary) I find it absolutely incredible, and surely it must demonstrate to the people of the . Province just how much the Opposition over there knows about the functioning of government. It is good, Mr. Speaker, that they are on the side of the House, I must say, because they would not know what to do if they did get over here. Quite some time ago, a long time ago,there were a number of changes made in the operations of government as ·it related to ministers.

And the minister, the President of the Council (Mr. Marshall) ,becaroe the minister responsible for the Petroleum Directorate and the Minister responsible for Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro, and all the rest of the functions of the ministry of Mines and Energy went with the Minister of Development (Mr. Windsor). Just recently there was a change where the Minister of Development -··· · ' was no longer the Minister of Mines and Energy and was transferred to the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe) . Now that is as clear, Mr. Speaker, as I can put it.

There is a Ministry of Mines and Energy which has certain responsibilities. one time the Ministry of Mines and Energy had a whole bunch of responsiblities which also included t~ Petroleum Directorate and Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro. However, the Ministry of Mines and Energy rlght now is not responsible for the Petroleum Directorate and the Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro. That is the responsibility of the President of Council (Mr. Marshall) . All of the other things which flow naturally under the Minister of Mines and Energ y i still under the Ministry of Mines and Energy .

I do not think I can make it any clearer than that to the hon. the Leader of the Opposition. I have on a number of occasions tried to inform 103

March 7, 1983 Tape No. 47 NM - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: him, explain it to him, explain it to the press and so on. So that is the situation, Mr. Speaker. The President of Council (Mr. Marshall), the Government House Leader,is the minister responsible for the Petroleum Directorate. He is. the minister responsible for Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro. And then the Ministry of Mines and Energy - there are energy elements left in the ministry, plus the mines part of it -is the responsibility now of the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe) • MR. WARREN: You are not confused,are you? PREMIER PECKFORD: Oh, no.

I know the hon. member opposite is still confus.ed. we have seen quite a bit of evidence of the hen. member's contribution to this House over the last couple of years. Undoubtedly, Mr. Speaker, when I sit down the hon. member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren} will still be confused and,you know 1 that is all I can do. I cari only ask the press and the rest of the members whether they understand the situation. I did not say when I got up here, Mr. Speaker, that I intended to ensure ·that the member for Torngat Mountains understood what I was go~ng to say. I never said that,' Sir.

I can only leave that for the other members of the Oppos ·li.tion to explain to the ' member for Torngat Mountains what I have said,and if he would like, Mr. Speaker, I am sure there are hon. members in the backbench who can, after the Question Period is over, have a little meeting wit~ the member for Torngat Mountains and explain to him what it was the Premier said in the House this afternoon. MR. SIMMS: A good answer. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! 104

March. 7, l!i83 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) ; MR. NEARY : Tape No . 47 NM - 3 Th.e hon. Leader of the Opposition. Mr. Speaker, that is about as clear as mud. And it must be obvious to everyone that the Premier doe .s not understand how the British Parliamentary ·system operates. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, in case the han. gentleman does not reali:z;e wb.at he is saying, let me tell him. what he is saying~ he is saying that the President of the Council, the Government House Leader (Mr.

Marshall) is a minister without portfolio responsible for the Petroleum Directorate and for the New£oundl~d and Labrador Hydro Corporation. That is what the hon. gentleman is saying. And from now on I hope . when people are referring to the hon. gentleman that ltthey' will say, ''Minister without Portfolio'. The gentleman does not have a full-fledged department of government. PREMIER PECKFORP; Nobody is arguing that point. 105

March 7, 1983 Tape No. 48 MJ - 1 MR. S. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, nobody is arguing it. PREMIER PECKFORD: The Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) never asked rre whether he is minister without portfolio. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please! As all han. members know,there is thirty minutes allocated for the Question Period,and I am sure that the answers as well as the questions should be brief. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, now that we have that matter clarified we now know who to put the questions to regarding certain responsibilities.

I am glad that I reminded the Premier that there is such a thing as a minister without portfolio. Let me start out by asking the Premier a question about a stateme?t made by the former Minister of Energy in this Province, the member for Mount Scio (Mr. Barry), who apparently appeared to be awfully disturbed and upset over the fact that the gentleman responsible for the Petroleum Directorate did not consult with the federal Minister of Energy before making a unilateral decision to cancel Winter drilling.

Now what does the han. gentleman have to say about the former Minister of Energy,who now sits on the government side of the House, what does_he think of that statement? Is the member for Mount Scio correct when he makes that statement? Was there indeed no prior consultation with Mr. Chretien before the minister took his decision or was there consultation? And if there was not consultation, why not?

Andwas the han. member for Mount Scio cor"rect when he said that it has always been the custom and tradition in the past, when the han. gentleman was Minister of Energy, to have prior consultation with the Government of Canada before decisions of this magnitude, of this nature were carriedout? PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker. 106

March 7, 1983 Tape No. 48 MJ - 2 MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: I do not know how many questions are there, Mr. Speaker, but I guess I will be allowed the liberty to answer them so that it does not - Lvlrt. L. SIMMS: PREMIER PECKFn~n: If he wants the answers. • Yes, if he wants the answers. It might take me a little while to answer them, Mr~ Spe.aker. Number one, the member from Mount Scio (Mr.

Barry) is entitled to make whatever statements he wishes to make and he has made some.And I think on that occasion, as I informed him a few days ago, some of the statements the member for Mount Scio made he indicated, he qualified his answer by saying, 'Now, I do not have all the information or all the facts on this matter,' and of course, as I indicated ,to him, he did not have all of the facts as it related to this .matter when he made his statement. So I agree with the hon. the member for Mount Scio in his statement that he did not have all of the information.

Obviously, how could he have all of the information if he was mt a part of the government decision? So that is what I have to say on what the member for Mount Scio had to say • And I am sure the member for Mount Scio can speak for himself in or outside of this House and if the Leader of the Opposition wants to speak to him or ask a question or two about it afterwards or some oth~r time I am sure the member for Mount Scio will,either in a speech or in a consultation with the Leader of the Opposition, talk to him about it.

As it relates to the incident itself, government was faced with a very, very difficult situation. We had another storm brewing offshore and we were apprised and possessed of a whole bunch of facts relating to February 16 and 17. And the day we made the decision to order a stop to drilling we had to say, ' Will we wait for the next day or two-when there was a storm on the horizon much the same as the previous storm-and take a chance that this second 107

March 7, 1983 Tape No. 48 MJ - 3 PREMIER PECKFORD: storm would cause a disaster or not? Armed with the information that ;.· .. 108

March 7,1983 Tape 49 PK - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: we had that day from the Petroleum Directorate, we were not willing to take that chance, Mr. Speaker. As it turned out,who was to know? The storm did not stop like the other one did exactly, it did not intensify to thP ~o~r~P. r~~r rhe other one did exactly, and therefore there was no disaster but that is all after the fact. We wer~ armed with a lot of information over several hours which told us that what had happened on February 16 and 17 was a very dangerous situation and there could have been a major disaster.

Armed with that informati.on,we f'elt we nad ~0 other alt~rnati~ in thin~dng about the safety of the people offshor~knowing that the West Venture could not propel itself, knowing that the West Venture on February 16 and 17 could not shed its anchors when it tried to,knowing that people had not detected an iceberg until it got within a number of kilometers of the rig -it was not detected all the way up to, I think it was eleven kilometers~ was the first time that it was detected.

It was not detected at twelve kilometers or thirteen kilometers or twenty kilometers knowing that the helicopters could not land in part of that storm when it was really serious because it was freezing rain. Armed with all of this information,if something had happened and this Hous~ opened today1the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary} would have gotten up in his place and he would have said, 1Mr. Speaker, I understand from 'my sources' that the Premier of this Province and the Minister of Energy (Mr.

Marshall) and a number of ministers were armed with information from February 16 and 17 knowing that a disaster could have occurred out there. And even with this information, and knowing that another storm was brewing just like the one on February 16, the Government of Newfoundland failed to exercise its at least moral authority to the people out there by ordering those rigs in.' That is what the Leader of the Opposition would 109

March 7, 1983 PREMIER PECKFORD: what he is saying now. SOME HON. MEMBERS : PREMIER PECKFORD: Tape 49 PK - 2 have said today rather than Oh, oh! And, Mr. Speaker, I was not willin q and the government was not willing to take that chance 1 so we had to move swiftly. We had the information; the document will become public tomorrow after we meet with the companies tonight. And as soon as we made the decision 1we communicated it to the federal government.

But beqause there was a storm brewing that day if there had been no storm and there had been nothing there that was going to Impi:nge upon sa.'fety obviously full consultation would have taken place - but with the circumstances of that day,knowing what we knew of February 16 and 17, knowing that another storm was brewing and following the same path as the one ~>n 11 0

March 7, 1983 Tape 50 EC - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: February 16th and 17th, we took what we felt was .the only responsible action we could have taken at t~at time and that was get them out of there before that storm comes. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, the hon. gentleman has n.o .problem us.i.n.q an ..instru:me.nt..., .411 in11ention ..by Alexander Graham Bell when he wants to, he has no problem with telexes when he wants to use telexes, and they seem to be going out of the Province now daily aimed at criticizing Ottawa: Why did the hon. gentleman not pick up his phone and follow the tradition that was - and I am not trying to embarrass the member for Mount scio (Mr. ~arry), by the way~ I am not trying to put the hon. gentleman in the hot seat.

There are an awful lot of people in Newfoundland and Labrador who respect the hon. gentleman and agree with his position and agree with what the hon. gentleman is saying, Mr. Speaker. But instead of having this confron­ tation,why did they not pick up the phone and call Mr. Chretien or call his office and say, 'Look, we are thinking about calling the rigs in from the Grand Banks'? Why did they not have prior consultation on the phone? It would have only taken five minutes, Mr. Speaker. We could not persuade the hon. gentleman a year ago to ban Winter drilling. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh~ MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, the hon. gentleman's answer is so full of holes that it is almost as bad as the satellite station at Shoe Cove, which I will deal with in 1 1 1

March 7, 1"983 Tape 50 EC - 2 MR. NEARY: a few moments. Why did the hen. gentleman not pick up the phone and have five or ten minutes of consultation instead of making a unilateral decision? PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker. that is easy to answer. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hen. the Premier. PREMIER .PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, in all the consultation that we have had with COGLA during that February 16th and 17th storm 1it was obvious to us that on the day that we made that decision to order in the .Ags ~ i:here ~ ahsal utely .DO .w.ay .tb.a.t i;he Minister of Energy in Ottawa (Mr.

Chretien) could be sensitized to the importance of this situation. It was impossible. COGLA did not even know there was a storm off the coast of Newfoundland and Labrador on Februar~ 16th and 17th, It was just a normal meteorological activity with no intensity to it, no danger to it. We were the ones, Mr. Speaker, who had to order Search and Rescue out of I Greenwood, Nova Scotia,and out of Summerside. We were the ones who had to set up all the contingency plans, and if the Leader of the Opposition (Mr.

Neary) wants to take the position now that suddenly the decision that we made to try to get those rigs in out of there before that storm would happen - we telexed the Minister of Energy immediately as we took the decision, but we knew, Mr. Speaker, as we later found out, the federal government are putting all their eggs in the basket of whatever the company says is safe that is what is safe. The evidence is overwhelming, Mr. Speaker, that this would not have mattered a hoot to the federal government.

We knew it on February 16th and 17th because COGLA would not get themselves - there were only three people here, one person who is in charge; the people in Ottawa and the people here 11 2

March 7, 1983 PREMIER PECKFORD: of the situation. Tape 50 EC - 3 did not realize the seriousness That brings us right back to the whole business of management and control of the thing. This is what we have been savinq riqht from the sta"t:"+~ even on safety things, somebody 2,000 ~les away cannot be sensitized to it, they were not br~ught up to it and they do not understand it. Mr. Chretien's people had been informed February 16th, February 17th and right on through the bit and piece about the seriousness of it • .They _.Qi.d .no£ t:.ake ..iJ; with. the detJ%'-ee o.f ~iou.sne-&S that we did.

We kri.ew it, we knew it in our heart and soul, we knew it factually, we had to go and take the action. And that happens on so many thi.Ilgs, not only on offshore, it happens on the fishery every day and it happens in o-ther areas, where Newfoundlanders and Labradorians believe and think that the Government of Newfoundland has this power. o.r that power, 'Oh, but you understand and they do not~ therefore , you give me the lobste.r licence,' even though it comes under federal control. It goes on a whole range of things. 113

March 7,1983 Tape No. 51 ah-1 PREMIER PECKFORD: And on this one, Mr. Speaker, the evidence is overwhelming that the federal government were not on February 16th or l7th,or thereafter,sensitized to just how important this is 1 and that is why we would like to get it to Mr. Chretien directly. They still do not understand. And that teleg~arn there toda y, read by the minister respqnsible for the Petroleum Directorate,is a case in point. The Minister of Energy (Mr. Chretien) for Canada is saying, 'If Mobil believes it is too bad out there,Mobil will come in. ' Well , Mr.Speaker, I am very sorry.

I do not have that kind of confidence in companies who have to look -at their balance sheet and also look at safety. That is the responsibilty of the Government of Canada and the Government of Newfoundland and we should not try to slough it of on the companies. We are responsible for the safety of those workers and not the corporations who are trying to make a profit. SOME HON .MEMBERS ·: MR. SPEAKER (RUSsell) : MR.NEARY: Hear, hear! The hon. Leader of the Opposition. Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman should be well · aware of where the Leader of the Opposition stands on thes ·e· matters.

It was the Leader of the Opposition who first mentioned in this Province,or probably in Canada, about banning drilling off our coast during the Winter months and the han. gentleman would not listen. Now he is a Johnny-come-lately, Mr. Speaker, and he is trying to take the ball noW: and run with it for political reasons. Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman's answer is ·so .full of holes that it :is almost as bad as the one on the tracking station down at Shoe Cove,~hen on February lSt:h the hon. gentleman told the people of this Province through a news conference that he held that the Shoe Cove tracking 11 4

March 7,1983 Tape No. 51 ah-2 MR.NEARY: station provided up to date data on iceberg movement, the location and character of pack ice and sea state conditions. Mr. Speaker, that statement was completely untrue. How can we ever believe anything the han. gentleman e~~r says again? MR.MARSHALL: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR.SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please! The han. President of the Council on a point of order. MR. MARSHALL: You know,this is the Question ~eriod and the bon. gentleman is making a speech, he is into Supplementary Questions.

I am sure there are lots of people in the House who would like to ask questions during Question Period. There is a time for a speech and there is a time for questions and the han. gentleman's

preambles are too long. MR.SPEAKER: Order, please! The Chair today has mentioned the fact that there are only thirty minutes allocated for the Question Period and there are a number of han. members, I guess, who would like to ask some questions. Again I can only repeat and ask han. members for their c-o:-operation in keeping their answers and their questions as brief as possible. MR.NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the Premier why he made that statement to the people of this Province when we are told that the government knew that it was not true that the Shoe Cove Satellite Station tracked icebergs? MR.

TOBIN: Who? MR. NEARY: Who what? MR. TOBIN: Who told you? MR.NEARY: I will come to that shortly. But I want to ask the Premier why he made that statement to try to mislead the Newfoundland people if he knew, if indeed he did know, that at the time he made the statement that it was incorrect, it was untrue, 115

March 7,1983 Tape No. 51 ah-3 MR. NEARY: and would have a tendency to mislead the people of this Province? Why did the gentleman do that? 116

March 7, 1983 Tape No. 52 SD - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The han . the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, if the han. the Leader of the Opposition (_Mr. Neary) _ is trying to say that the Shoe Cove Satellite Tracking Station should be removed from this Province, let him come right out straigh .t and say it. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh. PREMIER PECKFORD: If he is · supporting Mr. Chretien and the rest of the federal government on taking away a high technology - SOME HON. MEMBER S : Oh ., oh. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER PECKFOR:D: station from this · Province, let him come right out and say it, let him not hide behind trying to use one phrase or another phrase, let him come right out straight. r mean, let us not play games· with this thing. Is the Leader of the Opposition and the Liberal Oppos -ition in favour of keeping the Shoe Cove Tracking Station? Are they in favour of s-eeing th .e industrial parks go ah.ead in this Province? Are they in favour that the federal government should have put money into the syncrolift?

Are they in favour of the Government of Newfoundland when they said that the tFisheries College should be located in St. John • s? Le .t the Leader of the Opposition came clean, let him not try to hide behind a few- weasel wards that Ile is trying to use ther _e n~w. Let th .e Leader of the Oppos ·:ttion support the government _in keeping what we have here now and stop playing games with technicalities . That is what r ask the Leader of the Opposition to do. MR. NEA:RY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY : Mr. Speakert the han. gentleman did not answer my quest .ion .

The hon. gentleman knows full well that one of the worst things that a Premier or a minister can do in his capacity · as · Premier or minis ·ter .:i:s to lie or deceive 11 7

March 7, 1983 MR. NEARY: SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER (Russell): MR. NEARY: that the hon. gentleman did. MR. SPEAKER: Tape No. 52 or mislead the people. Oh, oh. Order, please! SD - 2 Now, Mr. Speaker, I am not saying Order, please! The hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) is making some inferences which appear to the Chair to be unparliamentary and I would ask him to discontinue that. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, I am going to ask the hon. gentleman again to tell this House and to tell the people of Newfoundland why he made an incorrect statement on February 15th when he issued a statement here in Confederation Building at a news conference MR. WARREN: On the 11th floor. __ ,-... MR.

NEARY: - on the 11th floor when he said that•more particularly for Newfoundland the Shoe Cove station provided up-to-date data on iceberg movement, the location and character of pack ice and sea state conditions.' Why did the hon. gentleman make that statement if he knew- that it Wa.s wrong and incorrect and would only have a tendency to mislead people and dupe people in this Province? Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman•s credibility and his believability is at stake and I ask him to answer the question honestly. MR. SPEAKER: The non. the Premier. PREM!E:R PECKFO'R.D: Mr.

Speaker, if the Leader of the Oppos :ition is· opposed to removing the Shoe Cove Satellite Tracking Station , let him come out and say so, let him not try to hide behind statements of mine or statements of other people. The ··--- . ·-· hon. the Leader of the Oppositon should have been on his feet every when this House was closed and no~ t~t this House is open supporting the government in its attempt to have a very valuable 11 B

March 7, 1983 Tape No. 52 SD - 3 PReMIER PECKFC)RD: research station stay in this Province. And by doing what he is doing he is ensuring that the federal g-overnment gets away with another punishment of Newfoundland. MR. NFARV• MR. SPEAKER (Rus :se :1·11: the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Supplementary, Mr. Speake:~?. Supplementary, the hon. Leader of My $Uppl,ememtary, -z.tr.

Speaker, is for th.e minister respons'ibl~ for the Petroleum Directorate. would the hen. gentleitJB.n tell thi.s: ltO.QI;re, beca;Q.se tbe i.nt~gJO>ity ·-of 'the."l?x:emiecand·~ a;cbtti::nbt£a;tion 'is- ·at '"Stake., 'would -the hon. gentleman tell this ROuse whether he intends to stand by a public statement that h.e ma.de that the. government knew when they took a stand on the ShOe Ceve Satellite Tracking Station, wl:um the:¥" took tnat a-tand, a;nd they went pullli.c on it , that the gevernme.nt knew- that tile . traclting station wa.s · not supplying the oil industry with daily · ice info:rma .ti .on 11 9

March 7, 1983 Tape 53 PK - 1 MR. NEARY: when they began to fight to save this facility. Is the han. gentleman prepared to stand by that statement? MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: What a body blow, Mr. Speaker. What a body blow the han. gentleman is dealing to the administration. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. MARSHALL: I will tell you what the han. gentleman is trying to do, Mr. Speaker. PREMIER PECKFORD: He is trying to get Chretien off the hook. MR. MARSHALL: He is trying to confuse it once again.

He is trying to confuse the situation as to the security on the offshore by pointing to the Shoe Cove Tracking station,which he full well knows would be such a valuable addition to the detection of icebergs and weather conditions in the timely manner that is necessary. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MARSHALL: But what he is trying to do, Mr. Speaker, is to save his friend, Jean, from - FREMIER PECKFORD: From another embarrassment. MR. MARSHALL: - embarrassment. Why does not the hen. gentleman address the fact of the Search and Rescue and the fact that it took eighteen hours.

He is trying to pu$h that under the table. It took twenty-one hours to get here to St. John's on February lS and 16. Why does not the hen. gentleman address himself to the ice conditions out in the North Atlantic? Why does not the han. gentleman, even r,·.ore importantly 1 con cede the fact that it is necessary to assess the role of the Shoe Cove Satellite Station knowing full well what an aid it can be to the detection jf icebergs and weather conditions? 120

March 7, 1983 Tape 53 PK - 2 MR. MARSHALL: So, Mr. Speaker, these body blows are great body blows. PREMIER PECKFORD: He had a call this mornin c ordering him to say what he is saying now. . I MR. MARSHALL: v~~. ~~ ~~d a ca:l, I am quite sure this morning from hi -s friend, Mr. Chretien, the apologist for the federal government on the other side. Well, that is fine. You can do it. In the meantime, Mr. Speaker, I reiterate my concern for the safety and security of offshore operations and the lives of the people involved out there. An-d, M.r. Speaker, while he is about it MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker . MR.

MARSHALL: I am not through - perhaps the -han. gentleman might exhibit the same degree of concern for the people from · Thailand. SOME HO~. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MARSHALL: If a tracking station is no good for the . ~le of Newfoundland maybe the han. gentleman can inform his friends in Ottawa that what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, and it is no good for the people in Thailand ei .ther. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! · MR. SPEAKER (Russelll.: The han. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, we are not going to be intimidated by the hon. gentleman. The fact of ·the matter is, Mr.

Speaker, that the government duped the people of this Province, misled the . people of this Province by coming out and saying that that station had to remain intact because it provided 121

M;arch 7, 1983 Tape 53 PK - 3 M:R. NEARY: information on icebergs and ice. And in actual fact, Mr. Speaker, that is not true. Now who is my authority on it for saying it is not true? Well 1 in the Ei:arch 5 edition of The Evening Telegram it says, "Marshall . says government was aware station did not pr<!lvide ice inform?t-io~~· ;, None other than the han. gentleman himself!

Only a few days before that we were told by the Premier, and the Cabinet went down to Shoe Cove inforce, enmasse, a big turn-out - they would not go to Burin to try . to save the fish plant, they went d~>~ .to . .the . ..sa.tell.ita . .statiOJJ. . .in Shoe Cove - SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! _MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Order, please! PREMIER PECKFORD: Is the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) asking me a question? SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! :?.~M:IER PECKFORD: I would like to know who the question is directed to, Mr. Speaker? MR. WARREN: Sit down,boy·! Sit down! MR. SPEAKER: The hen.

Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: So, Mr. Speaker, it will be recorded that this is a sad day in this House; it will be recorded that the Premier would not answer a direct question put to him by the Leader of the Opposition. I will repeat it1 and I will give the han. gentleman a chance to protect his integrity and his honour by asking him again why he made that statement that he did at his press conference, if, as the hen. President of the Council (Mr. Marshall) says, the -government knew all along that the station did not provide ice information? Why did the Premier say 122

March 7, 1983 Tape No. 54 MJ - 1 MR. S. NEARY: that more particularly for Newfoundland the Shoe Cove Station provided - MR. L. SIMMS: That is what was reported in newspapers . MR. NEARY: This is not newspapers, this is a pres.s release from t~~ p';rernier' s Office. AN HON. MEMBER: You are quoting from - !1R •. NEARY: ., ... I am quot±ng from - the Premier has not denied it. The han. gentleman may squirm, the han. gentleman can squirm all he wants, he is not going to rescue the Premier, he is not going to get his little favours. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Order, please! Order, please!

I would request the han. the Leader of the Opposition to direct a question to somebody. MR. NEARY:· Well, Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Premier again. Could the han. gentleman tell the House and tell the people of this Province why he made that statement if,as the President of the Council (Mr. Marshall) said publicly on Saturday 1 the government knew all along that this sta~ion was not used to track ice and icebergs ? Then why did the Premier make that statement? It has nothing to do 'with me, whether I am for or against dismantling that statian.

The han. gentleman's integrity is at stake and his honour is at stake and he should realize that, that the people of th~s Province may never believe him again, Mr. Speaker, may never believe another word he says. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Order. please! The han. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, there is no question 1 I guess on the first day that the House opens that the best defense is an offense 1 and I guess that is what the Leader of the Opposition is trying to do there today. He knows he is in trouble as it relates to not only the Shoe Cove Tracking 123

March 7, 1983 Tape No. 54 MJ - 2 PREMIER PECKF .ORD: Station, but as it relates to the Fisheries College, synchrolift, and every other issue that carne up in the Throne Speech last week, that came up before that time. He knows that he has a problem on his hands and I guess he has made a determined effort to try, through picky little things, to show that the government is not doing its job. Now, I admire the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) for that. That is a fine tactical maneuver for the Leader of the Opposition to make. If I were Leader of the Opposition, Mr.

Speaker, I suppose I would take the same kind of an approach that the Leader of the Opposition is taking, but that does not mean that now that I am not the Leader of the Opposition, I am the Premier, and he is asking me this question, that I am going to let the Leader of the Opposition off the hook from saying that the Liberal Party of Newfoundland should get its act together and support the government on those things that the federal government are trying to punish us about. It is a good try, Mr. Speaker, it is a wonderful try.

I admire the Leader of the Opposition in trying to take this tack, but when we see through his tack, when we see through his strategy, Mr. Speaker, we have an obligation to the people of Newfoundland to tell the people of Newfoundland that the Leader of ~he Opposition is trying to hide away from his Liberal budaies. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please! The time for the Question Period has exp~red. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: has expired. MR. J. DINN: MR. SPEAKER: and Manpower. Order, pleas·e! Order, please! The time for Question Period NOTICES OF MOTION Mr. Speaker.

The hon. the Minister of Labour 124

March 7, 1983 Tape No . 54 MJ - 3 MR . J. DINN: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce the following bills: A bill entitled "An Act To Amend The Regulation of Mines Act". Health and Saf ... :.,. Act". Act, 1977• . MR . N. WINDSOR: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : MR . WINDSOR: "An Act To Amend The Occupational "An Act To Amend The Labour Relations Mr. Speaker . The hon. the Minister of Development. Mr . Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce the following bills: "An Act To Repeal Certain Obsolete And Spent Statutes" .

"An Act To Amend The Newfoundland And Labrador Housing Corporation Act". MR . W. HOUSE : Mr. Speaker. MR . SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health. 125

March 7, 1983 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : MR. HOUSE: Tape No. 55 NM - 1 The han. Minister of Health. Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce the following bills, "An Act To Revise The Law Respecting Dentistry and Dental Surgery In The Province," and "An Act To Amend The Pharmaceutical Association Act". MR. SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development. MR. GOUDIE: Mr.

Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce the following bills: "An Act To Amend The Livestock(Health)Act," "An Act To Amend The Natural Products Marketing Act, 1973", and "An Act To Amend The Co-operative Societies Act". MR. SPEAKER: MR. OTTENHETMER: The han. Minister of Justice. Mr.

Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce the following bills: "Ali Act To Amend The Criminal Injuries Compensation Act", "An Act To Amend The Public ' Utilities Act," "An Act To Amend The Fire Prevention Act," "An Act To Amend The Accident And Sickness Insurance Act, 197;1.." "An Act To Amend The Registration Of Deeds Act". MR. SPEAKER: MS. WRGE: The han. Minister of Education. Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce ~wo bills, "An Act To Amend The Department Of Education Act", and "An Act To Amend The Local School Tax Act". 126

March. 7, 1983 Tape No. 55 NM- 2 P 'RESENTING ~ PETITIONS: MR. SPEAKER (Russell} : The hen. member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I stand to present a petition signed by 246 residents from the community of Nain. The prayer of the petition, Mr. Speaker is quite lengthy, "Whereas the Labrador Services Division of the Department of Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development, the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, operatesa retail store in the town of Nain, which is the primary supplier of food to the residents of this municipality;

whereas the above named store has the facilities to store and market fresh food products such as fruit, vegetables and dairy products;

whereas this same store does not presently provide for sale on a regular basis good quality fresh food products; and

whereas it is commonly known that the intake of such fresh food products develops physically and mentally healthier human beings;and

whereas such. fresh food products are available in other Northern Canadian communities, many with populations much smaller than Nain;

now therefore let it be known that the persons who have attached their signatures hereto hereby petition the government of Newfoundland and Labrador to immediately supply the government operated retail store in Nain with a weekly supply of good quality fresh fruits, · vegetables and dairy products, ensure that the storage facilities in the Nain store are maintained in good working order to ensure proper storage and to avoid spoilage, and to ensure quick, safe and well secured transportation facilities from point of origin to final destination and provide 127

March 7, 1-983 Tape 56 EC - 1 HR. WARREN: adequate instructions and training to their staff at the Nain store to enable them to display and market only those fresh products which are fit for human consumption and empower the management of the Nain store to reduce the price of such products which are known to be not of top quality.

This appeal to your govern­ ment is being made to try to get improvements to what we, the residents of Nain, consider as a disgusting situation in regard to the condition of food which is .placed nn ..sal.e ..ill J:he.Nain ,~ , .aDii because we ..axe concerned about the health of ourselves, our families and our friends." Now, Mr. Speaker, there is not much more that I can say in presenting this petition but one thing I can say, Mr. Speaker, is that the store in Nain-the Minister of Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development (Mr.

Goudie) is responsible for the operation of this store, and the store in Nain - as within the other communities in my district, are not stocked on a weekly basis with fresh fruits, vegetables and milk products. Therefore, it is an obligation of the minister and of the government that he represents to make sure that there is fresh fruit and vegetables for the people in Nain. Only just last week, Mr. :~peaker, Bell Island was cut off for one -week without water transportation and all of a sudden the water bombers were bringing over fresh fruit and vegetables to Bell Island at no extra cost.

I would say, more power to the Bell Islanders for getting fruit and vegetables at no extra cost but the people in my district have to pay an extra 55 cents a pound. Now, Mr. Speaker, I think what is sauce for the goose is sauce also for the gander and therefore, if we are going to 128

March 7, 1983 Tape 56 EC - 2 MR. WARREN: supply one community in this Province with fruit and vegetables on a weekly or daily basis then surely goodness, Mr. Speaker, the people in Labrador are entitled to the same treatment. With this, Mr. Speaker, I will place the petition on the table of this House and let it go to the minister to whom it refers. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. GOUDIE: MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker. The hon. the Minister of Rural, MR. GOUDIE: Mr.

Speaker, I cannot remember the number of people who are identified as signing the petition presented by the han. the member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren), but in excess of 200, I think, was the number that he mentioned. As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, this particular subject has been a topic of discussion between the member for that district, the chairman of the council and some council members from Nain and some of my staff a couple of weeks ago when they visited the area. , I advised the member tor Torngat and the other people who were in that particular delegation ,J 129

March 7,1983 Tape No. 57 ah-1 MR.GOUDIE: that we would be taking a look at the situation which they identified,and we are indeed actually doing that now. There was also a recommendation from one of the people in the delegation that perhaps we should start buying our fresh produce, etc., and shipping it in from Chima, which I guess is a suggestion at least and one which can be looked at.

I should point out, Mr.Speaker, that I think it was in the early 1950s that the government of this Province took over or actually installed facilities in several coastal communities of Labrador,when the Hudson Bay company moved out of the area,and have been providing a service-since that time. I do not know how it was all financed originally but certainly in recent years it has been financed through what is referred to as the Native People's Agreement, a cost shared agreement between Ottawa and the Government of this Province.

And in most communities along the coast new facilities have either been constructed or are being constructed in terms of depots , good storage facilities in them, etc., etc. The hon. gentleman referred to residents of Bell Island being provided food, I think, by water bombers or some such activity during the situation where ice is infesting the gut or the tickle or whatever it is they call it out there. What is it? AN HON.MEMBER: I believe it is the tickle. MR.GOUDIE: The tickle.

That is,I guess,a step that had to be taken to provide food for the people of Bell Island.Well~I should point out that it is a little bit of a different matter, Mr. Speaker, to fly food from here to Bell Island via water bomber or anything else than it is to fly food from here or Goose Bay,or Chima for that matter 1 or Shefferville,to Nain or any other 1-30

March 7,1983 Tape No. 57 ab-2 MR.GOUDIE: connnunity along the North coast of Labrado.r. It is an entirely different matter altogether. He mentions that some food items, I do not know which ones, but some food items are an extra fifty-five cents a pound, I think, in the connnunity of Nai:n. Well I ~1-J.ould point 011+. Mr.

Speaker,-just as one example,and this is the only example I can think of at the moment, two years ago if we were to fly in a 100 pound sack of potatoes to Nain from Goose Bay it would cost $100 to do that per sack,so, obviously, some "'residents in some coastal coll'l1nuni ties of "Labrador are Tecei:v±m:J -a rather iti9fl -'Subsidy -at thi-s point in time~ But I will conclude by saying it is not true that there is no subsidy. The hen. gentleman obviously does not know what he is talking about,in his own district. Mr.

Speaker, -I gave the undertaking at the meeting that we held two or three weeks ago, and I g.ive the undertaking again1 that all options will be looked at :to provide fresh produce, fruit, etc., etc., to residents of coastal Lab;rador and as soon as we can put a mechanism in place it will be done. 131

March 7, 1983 Tape No. 58 SD - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The han. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to support the petition so ably presented by my colleague the member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren) on behalf of 2~6 residents, I believe it is, voters, in the community of Nain in Northern Labrador. Now, Mr. Speaker, let me say right from the beginning that it is becoming increasin~ly obvious that something is happening in Northern Labrador.

Every service in Northern Labrador seems to be deteriorat:ljng, in the ~ast ~ew· years . 1teal th ·,;ervic:es ·are c1ete-rio-rating, water and sewer services are installed badly, they freeze up in the Wintertime. And now, Mr. Speaker, we have evidence that the stores that are operated by the government in Northern Labrador are deteriorating. Not only is the cost of living extremely high,where they are paying fifty-five cents a pound more for practically everything than they · are on the Island here or in other parts of Labrador, but they just cannot get the produce. They cannot get fresh fruit in the Wintertime.

They cannot get fresh vegetables, Mr. Speaker, in the Wintertime. And I hope that this deterioration of services in Northern Labrador is· not deliberate, that this neglect is not orchestrated and deliberate so that the han. gentleman can call in private enterprise. AN HON. MEMBER: ·No, it is not. MR. NEARY: The han. gentleman says, 'No, it is not~. Well, r hope it is · not, Mr. Speaker. I hope it is not.

I hope it is not being deliberately planned to downgrade . ·-- . services in Labrador, to,downgrade these stores in any way, shape or form so that they can put the s·tores up on bids and invite private enterprise to come in to operate these stores. There has been some talk of it,as the han. gentleman knows. And the hen. gentleman has· indicated in his puBlic statements that he 132

Ma:r;ch 7, 1983 Tape No. 58 SD - 2 MR. NEARY: is all for private enterprise operating these stores. Well,I hope the han. gentleman does not go ahead with inviting private enterprise into Nain without having prior consultation with the people themselves. MR. WARREN: MR. NEARY: MR. GOUDIE: Hear, hear. The people, themselves, should have - (_Inaudible l or did you hear it from Ottawa. MR. NEARY: MR. WARREN: 1.VIR. ~= I beg your pardon? What he is saying is right. r -heaT ·i:t a.ll a.nyway because they call me all the time and tell me MR. ROBERTS: How frustrated they are - MR.

NEARY: - how frustrated they are since things started to deteriorate. But, Mr. Speaker, let us hope that it is not true that these services are being deliberately downgraded. Private enterprise may he able to function in the right environment in certain localities, certain regions, but, Mr. Speak.er, in Northern Labrador the han. gentleman has to be very careful. First o.f all, the store in Nain has to be up­ graded. That is what the petitioners are asking for. They are asking to have the store upgraded ~efore the han. gentleman even considers ·, 133

March 7, 1983 Tape No. 59 JV- 1 MR. NEARY: even harbors the thought of inviting private enterprise in to take over that or any other store in Northern Labrador. ~· GOUDIE: Why? MR. NEARY: Why what? MR. GOUDIE: (.Inaudible!_ MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, that is what they are asking. They are asking for better service. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, there is nothing in it. MR. GOUDIE: give it to them? MR. NEARY: Because they ask for it, we have to Well, Mr. Speaker that is the trouble. T.he hon. gentleman is back to the Conne River situation again. Mr.

Speaker, you can ask the hon. gentleman for anything, he is not going to do it. He does not want to do it.

But, what they are saying, the message is coming through from Northern Labrador,is that the hon. gentleman should not lift a finger to discuss these matters with private enterprise until the service and the stores are improved and then,if the hon. gentleman wants to proceed with discussions pro and con as to the government operating the stores or private enterprise operating the stores, then it should only be done with input from the people, prior consultation with the people, and they will decide the course of action,Mr. Speaker MR. GOUDIE: Will they? MR.

NEARY: Well, maybe the hon. gentleman wants to foist his opinion and his ideas,and he wants to bring his political buddies in to operate these stores. Maybe that is what the hon. gentleman wantsr But there is such a thing as d,emocracy and a consensus in opinion. The hon. gentleman may not like it, he may be listening to the Premier, his boss, too much and the President of the Council tMr. Marshalll. But the fact of the matter is that these people are living in isolation and living in remote 134

March 7, 1983 Tape No. 59 JV - 2 MR. NEARY: areas of the Province and they do have problems that are unique, unique to these communities, Mr. Speaker. And as far as flying produce, fresh produce in, they now have landing strips that are put there by the federal government and, sn- ~hP- hnn. a8ntleman miahr ~ewell advised to take a look at providing fresh produce to the Northern Labrador communities during the Winter months. MR. WARREN: MR. NEARY: The water bomber can land there. Even a water bomber. And, Mr. Speaker, they have an aircraft down from Winnipeg.

I do not know "but -the han. qentl-eman was aboard of i.t. The Dash 7 carri-es fifty passengers and can land on these landing strips in Northern and Southern Labrador. So the han. gentleman should not shake his head and shrug his shoulders and dismiss this matter lightly. It is a very serious problem as far as the people of Northern Labrador are concerned, Mr. Speaker, and I hope the han. gentleman will take steps to remedy this situation at an early a date as possible. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Are there any other petitions? of Belle Isle. MR. ROBERTS: The hon.the member for the Strait Mr.

Speaker, if I can bring the attention of the House from the most Northerly community in our Province to a community in my district that is about, .I guess, mid-way between here and Nain, the community of Conche. 135

March 7, 1983 Tape 60 EC - l MR. ROBERTS: I have here a petition signed by 318 of the men and women of Conche. I might add that is about every grown man and woman in the community. It certainly represents the feelings of every man, woman and child in that community. The praye~ of the petition is very short. "We, the undersigned, do strongly protest the decision to close the Grenfell regional nursing station in Conche." I see the Minister of Health (Mr. House) is here and I hope he will have a few words to say because I know he .i.s famj 1 jar 'illitil .the . .issue.. The petition, Mr.

Speaker, is a little unusual in two senses. First of all, it is now badly out of date. It was taken up in November, 1982, it was conveyed to me physically early in January, 1983 when I was in Conche and, of course, since the petition was taken up, the Grenfell Regional Health board at Goose Bay or St. Anthony, wherever they are, I guess their headquarters - the chairman,.~rr.

Fahey, lives in Goose Bay- have announced their decision to close the station at Conche, and I guess in fact it has been closed in that the permanent staff there, the non-professional staff have been given layoff notices and I guess, in fact, are laid off. So in that sense it is a little unusual in that not only is it late or out of date or out of time because of events but,also, and more importantly, the decision was not directly one taken by this government. Even so, Mr.

Speaker, the decision taken by the board within their proper sphere of responsi­ bilities was, of course, one that was dictated to them by the government, by the Minister of Health announcing govern­ ment policy. He did not say, 'Close Conche,' he did not say, 'Close Englee,' he did not say, 'Lay off people in Melville and do not fill jobs in St. Anthony.' 136

March 7, 1983 Tape 60 EC - 2 MR. ROBERTS: What he did say was, 'You cannot have as much money as you need to operate what you have now got. Cut where you wish, but cut.' That is like saying to a person, 'You have to have one of your hands lopped off or one of your feet lopped off but do not blame Ee because one of your hands or one of your feet is in fact cut off.' Now, Mr.

Speaker, if the station is closed then we must deal with the situation that results so I will simply say to the minister as a first point that I hope he will find it possible this year to provide t.he Gren fe 1 J .l:lo.a.r.d wi.th ~.1.1gh ..money ±o .en.ab~e 1:h.em to reopen the station. There is no reason it cannot be reopened. Nothing has been changed or altered, nothing has come up to prevent it reopening.

The heat is still on, in fact the nurse is still living there; she will be there until June which happens to be her retirement date, an English girl who has been in Conche for about twenty-five years, or,say,on the Coast for about thirty years, in Conche for twenty-one or twenty-two. So, Mr. Speaker, my first request is very briefly and very sincerely and strongly on behalf of the people of Conche to ask the minister to do what needs to be done, namel~,to provide money and then I have no doubt the station will be reopened. 137

March 7, 1983 Tape 61 NM - 1 MR. ROBERTS: If he does reopen it, and if it does not reopen it will be the government's doing. Let that be recorded. If he does not reopen it,then let him take what measures he can to alleviate the effects of its closing. I have already written to the board at some length and they have made some moves. I have been in touch with the minister and,more importantly in this connection, with his colleague, the Minister of Transportation (Mr.

Dawe) to point out the most important step that can be taken is to improve the road between Conche and Roddickton, the only road available to these people, the road now. ' over ~ ~ · .. ~ which they must go for everything, including their health services. Formerly they had health services ready to hand in Conche, a very competent nurse, a lady who has been there, as I said, for twenty or twenty-one years, as long as the station has been there. The Minister of Health (Mr. Housel I know will agree with me, the road to conche, the road between Conche and Roddickton is a disgrace.

And when I see what this government are spending money on elsewhere in the Provino .e, and what their priorities are elsewhere, I very seriously wonder about ·their grasp of reality, that they will not provide the relatively modest sum of money that is needed to enable the road to Conche to be upgraded and improved. It is literally a lifeline for these people, literally a lifeline.

So I say to the minister that I would ask him when he stands now to pledge himself to do what he can to bring the ministry to the point of reality with respect to the road and to speak where he can and when he can, and he can speak in places I cannot, he can speak in the Cabinet, he can speak - I do not know if he is on Treasury Board - but he can speak in the financial committees to see that the people of Conche get access to their health services, and to do that they must 138

March 7, 1983 Tape 61 NM - 2 MR. ROBERTS: have an improved road. So if he will not reopen the station, which is our first request, the second request is that he provide the money, or that he help his colleagues provide the money to enable them. The people of Conche deserve it in simple justice, and in simple decency. r And I will close, Mr.

Speaker, my time is just about up, I will close by saying that we hear a great deal from the Premier and a great deal from his colleagues about justice and decency, and they make deep appeals for this in Canada, and I agree with them, we are entitled to be treated justly and decently, but I would say to the Premier that he should apply the same standards throughout this Island, and throughout this Province, and I will say he does not1 that this administration is the most dis­ criminatory, the most-well,now,that is not parliamentary the most discriminatory, and the most unfair and irrational group of men and women who have ever had the conduct of the affairs of the people of this Province in their hands.

So I will leave it for now by simply saying to the Minister of Health that this is a very heartfelt plea that I make in behalf of the people of Conche, I would ask him to do what he can, Sir, to meet these legitimate needs. MR. SPEAKER (Rus·sell): The hon. Minister of Health. MR. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, I just want to address and accept the petition. The member who presented it, of course, was exactly right when he said the l-1inister of Health (Mr. House} did not close the clinic. As a matter of fact,it was the board who have the responsibility for providing the medical services in the area.

I am familiar with- it of course, with the decision by the board to 139

March 7, 1983 Tape 62 PK - 1 MR. HOUSE: close that clinic. And if I am correct in the assessment I got from them, they did not think that it would be a big hinderance to the delivery of health care in the Province, there was a clinic reasonably nearhy. He was right also '"ith regard to the facility itself. It was not a very up-to-date facility. So, Mr. Speaker, I will acquaint the Board with the petition, but again I must say we did support them in the closure here because they did not think it was really ·necessary to good health care delivery in that area. MR. -SPEMER ·{Russell)~ MR. NEARY: Tbe bon.

Leader o£ the · Opposi.tion­ Mr. Speaker, first of all I want to say that I support the petition presented by my colleague, the member for the Strait of Belle Isle (Mr. Roberts), on behalf of 318 of his constituents. I am not sure if I understood the hon. Minister of Health (Mr. House) correctly when he said that they did not seem to be too concerned in the beginning about the closing of that cli~ic. Did I und~rstand the hon. gentleman correctly? Is that what the hon. gentleman said? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Health. MR.

HOUSE: No, I said the Board closed it and they_did not seem to think that it was essential to have it open for good health care. MR. NEARY: The people or the Board? MR. HOUSE: The Board. MR. NEARY: Oh, the Boar~ not the people. MR. HOUSE: Who delivers health care? MR. NEARY: Because obviously, Mr. Speaker, with 318 voters, adults over the age of eighteen,in that communit~ signing the petition,I would think they would consider it to be a very serious matter.indeed. Mr.

Speaker, the hon. gentleman missed the point, the very valid point that was raised by my colleague, the member for the Strait of Belle Isle, and that is 140

March 7, 1983 Tape 62 PK - 2 MR. NEARY: in connection with the condition of the road between Conche and Roddickton. That is the point, the main point of my hen. friend's plea and my hen. friend's request for the Minister of Health (Mr. House) and the Board to ~econsider this matter. The hen. ~entlernan can try to weasel his way out of it all he wants, Mr. Speaker. The ·hen. gentaeman can say yes, we are not directly involved in the decision making. ~echnically speaking that is correct .

But indirectly the hen. gentleman is involved and the administration is involved, because they have refused to give the Board ,the ~ necessary .to .keep ±hal: nursing .s.tatinn op~ .Mr. Speaker. The hen. gentleman may not be directly involved,he does not sit in on the meetings andnake the decision, but the hen. gentleman pulls the strings from the outside, and through his refusal and the refusal of the administration to grant the funds that are necessary to keep that nursing station open in Conche 1 they are forced to close it down. so the hen. gentleman should not play with words.

The hen. gentleman should :reconsider this matter if for no other reason than on the basis of the condition ' of that road. I am told by my hen. colleague to my right that it is virtually impossible· 141

March 7,1983 Tape No. 63 ah-1 MR.NEARY: in the case of a storm,to get' an emergency case to Roddickton, back and forth over that road, it is virtually impossible. And, Mr. Speaker, until that road is upgraded and paved, reconstructed probably and paved,government should keep that nursing station open. There is no valid reason for closing it. We have Sir Humphrey Gilbert celebrations that are going ~o cost $500,000.

We can pay rent for apartments down in Tiffany Place, we can squander and waste and mismanage public funds right,left and canter,but when it comes to people's health, Mr. speaker, no stone should be left unturned to make sure that we do not have to close hospital beds or nursing stations,that we are not taking our money so that ministers can trip all over the world, so that we can have Sir Humphrey Gilbert celebrations and the like, that silly nonsense. MR. WINDSOR: You are against Tourism? MR.NEARY: Beg your pardon! Mr. Speaker, am I against Tourism?

I am against waste and extravagance and squandering taxpayer money. So, Mr. Speaker, I wholeheartedly support the prayer of the petition and I urge the minister and the administration to reconsider their funding to the Grenfell board to enable them to keep this nursing station open. MR. SPEAI<ER (Russel"l') : Are there any other petitions? MR.MARSHALL: MR .• SPEAKER: SOME· HON. MEMBERS : MR.LUSH: ORDERS OF' THE DAY Order 1. Order 1. The Address in Reply. The hon. member for Terra Nova. Hear, hear!

Mr.Speaker, normally in a time of recession one would have anticipated that this was a difficult Throne Speech to reply to,because even members 142

March 7,1983 Tape No. 63 ah-2 MR.LUSH: of the Opposition like to be seen as r.ational and making responsible statements in reply to the Speech from the Throne. One would not want to be seen , Mr. Speaker, as making political points during hard economic times. Certainly t.here ~ouJ rl have bean philosophical differences and ideological differences which one could have debated but,of course,this Throne Speech is completely devoid of any philosophical approach, of any ideological approach, Mr. Speaker.

It contains no policies, no programmes at all indicating how the .qover!lllleJlt .in±end ±o .£i~ these bard -econom:i:c times, So 7 Mr. Speaker, normally one would have anticipated that this would have been a difficult Throne Speech to reply to because one would want to assist the government in helping our people to understand that during these times of scarce financial resources there is only a limited amount that the government can do.

And certainly the Opposition would want to have been seen to be a part of that philosophy and certainly not want to raise the expectations of our people or to give them any false hopes or any false impressions, Mr. Speaker. We certainly would have thought that that is the kind of approach that the government would have used. Mr. Speaker, they did not use that approach. There was only one philosophy ,there was pnly one approach used in this particular speech, this 1983-84 Throne Speech and that , of course, was for the 143

March 7, 1983 Tape No. 64 MJ - 1 MR. T. LUSH: government to carry on attacking the federal government. That was the clear indication put forward in the Throne Speech. There was no attempt, Mr. Speaker, to try and instruct the people of Newfoundland, to try and enlighten the people of Newfoundland with the crisis that is facing this Ration today and to try and appreciate and understand the difficult circumstances which the federal government is in. None of that, Mr. Speaker.

The attempt was certainly just to fight Ottawa and lay the blame on the shoulders of the federal government for all the economic woes which this Province is facing. Mr. Speaker, that is the kind of approach that was used in this Throne Speech. We thought it would have been a different one.

We thought it would have been an honest approach to tell the people· about the financial circumstances not only faced by this Province but by the'Canadian nation and thereby to try and get us all united, thereby to try and form a united front so that all of us as Canadians could attack the tremendous problems which we are facing in Canada today, and in the world. But, Mr. Speaker, that was not the approach. The approach was that every other government in Canada is out of step but this one. One, Mr. Speaker, could not help but think of the song, "Oh Lord it's hard to be humble". Mr.

Speaker, there was no attempt at all to try and put across to the people of this Province the tremendous financial difficulties that we are in not only as a province but as a nation, just an attempt to blame all of the problems on the federal government. So, Mr. Speaker, it was not difficult to understand the kind of speeches that we heard from the mover and the seconder of the Address in Reply. It was uncharacteristically and unusually political. Mr. Speaker, that only sort of - and, as I say, I do not blame 144

March 7, 1983 Tape No. 64 MJ - 2 MR. T. LUSH : them, I understand it because it sort of was fitting in with the tone and the mood of the Throne Speech. So, Mr . Speaker, what we have is a Throne Speech that is completely void of any kind of policy, any kind of programmes for the people of this Province and one which deliberately attempts to blame the federal government for every problem that \-'e face to .day. So , Mr. Speaker, instead of trying to create unity, instead of trying to establish understanding of the problems that we face nationally, the provincial government, Mr. Speaker, took the cowardly way out .

They put together all of the anti -federal words, all of . the anti -federal phrases, all of the anti -federal sentences which they have been using for the past several years and compiled it into one of the most empty Throne Speeches this Province has ever seen . Mr . Speaker, it but one big, vindictive, malicious attack 145 was nothing

March 7, 1983 Tape No. 65 SD - 1 MR. LUSH: on the federal government. It was a document, Mr. Speaker, that should never have been put into the hands of any Lieutenant-Governor. I was embarrassed for His Honour when he was reading this speech. I was embarrassed for His Honour that he was forced to read ~his attack on Ottawa, Mr. Speaker. It was shameful to put that into the hands of any Lieutenant-Governor,to have that kind of nonsense read , before this· Hous·e and to the people of Newfoundland. It was a capricious document, Mr.

Speaker, a document which broke away from all the precedents and all the tradition of Throne Speeches. It demonstrated a complete and blantant disregard for parliamentary tradition, parliamentary custom and parliamentary decorum as we know it in this part of the world. It was a shameful document, Mr. Speaker, a shameful document. It wa.s unrefined and uncouth and a vicious attack on the national government. As I have said, no attempt to demonstrate to our people the economic recession that this country is in and the whole of the Western World and,indeed. the whole world, Mr.

Speaker, just an attempt to try and convince our people that all of our economic woes, all of our economic problems are the fault of the federal government. There was nothing in this·, Mr. Speaker, nothing in this document for our stomachs·, not~ing in this document f;or our he.ads. This document was aimed at the heart, aimed at the emotions of people, as this government has been trying to do for the past two to three years. now-. :Mr. Speaker, it was not a Thorne Speech., not in the tradition that we know Throne Speeches. It was not a Throne Speech.. r call it a Throne screech, Mr.

Speaker, one continuous vicious: attack on our national government. It was simply, Mr. Speaker, an attempt to erode and destroy the credibility o~ the national government. And in that respect, Mr. Speaker, it was shameful. ---·---- Mr. Speaker, it was reflective and demonstrative of a government which has acknowledged defeat in 146

March 7, 1983 Tape No. · 65 so - 2 MR. LUSH : terms of coming to grips with solvin g the fiscal and economic problems of this Province; demonstrative, Mr. Speaker, of a tired government, of a group of Cabinet Ministers who have no ideas on how to develop this country; demonstrativ~ -:-~ ... ':'"' "T~ "!"'-~'i'nt whic !:: ~=--- "-?come tot ,af.Ly .. .'. t ~ ..... -.--. bereft and void of any policies or any ideas with respect to coming to grips with the severe financial problems which w~ now face . It was not an honest document, Mr . Speaker, it was full o~ 147

March 7, 1983 Tape 66 EC - 1 MR. LUSH: distortions and full of misrepresentations with respect to the federal government. Did it ask our people, Mr. Speaker, to try to understand the national problem, the national crisis? No, it did not do that. ·It did not do that, but it asked the people to '• .•· ... ·. come togeiiher to fight this great federal wolf, this culprit, · Mr. Speak~r, that is trying to exploit the people of Newfoundland. That was the approach. That was the approach, Mr. Speaker, a vicious attack on the national government.

I would go so far as to say that there was -Dever . .a. .dacmnent.., ~a . was never .a Throne Speech_ presented in this hon. House so vicious against the federal government, never one, Mr. Speaker. MR. NEARY: While they are asking for financial help on just about every project on the other hand. MR. LUSH: Pardon? MR. NEARY: They are asking for financial assistance on every project - MR. LUSH: .MR. NEARY: highway. MR. LUSH: That is right. - roads, the Trans-Labrador That is right, saying on the one hand that we do not want any transfer payments - and this is what the Throne Speech was all about, Mr.

Speaker, on the one hand we do not want them, on the other hand they were condemning the federal government because they were not giving us enough of them • .MR. NEARY: That is right • .MR. LUSH: So, Mr. Speaker, Ottawa was blamed for every condition, was blamed on two fronts,in the .main. And now I will get to the document itself and comment on some of the items there specifically. 148

. : ... ·; .. March 7, 1983 Tape 66 EC - 2 MR. LUSH: Ottawa was blamed on two fronts. First of all, Ottawa was blamed because we were not generating additional revenues. So Ottawa was blamed on that.

It says, 'The tragic irony in Newfoundland's situation is that at the same time as we are failing to generate additional revenues, primarily due to federal · government insensitivity on offshore resources and hydro development, this same federal government is also reducing its commitment to social programmes through established programme financing, especially in the areas o.f health and post secondary 1!ducation. 4 So, 1'!r.

Speaker, Ottawa was blamed on two fronts, one, because we were not generating additional funds in this Province, and because they were cutting back on social programmes for the Province, another misleading statement that I will get around to momentarily. Mr. Speaker ,, in talking about the first part, the fault they put on Ottawa for not generating enough revenues, then, of course, they talk about the offshore and talk about the failure there to negotiate, the failure to come to a political settle­ ment. And the government expresses in the document the fact that they want a political settlement.

The Throne Speech goes on to say, "My government fails to understand why this issue must be a legal one at all." It was my understanding that it was the provincial government that made it a legal one. They were the first people to initiate a court action, Mr. Speaker, when they placed it before the Supreme Court of Newfoundland. MR. NEARY: A phony issue. MR. LUSH: Yes, Mr. Speaker, they went on a phony issue. They went on a phony issue as they have been always looking for phony issues and it was they, 149

March 7, 1983 Tape 66 EC - 3 MR. LUSH : Mr. Speaker, it was they who made the first move to have this ma ·tter settled in the court. That was when the Premier gave it away. That is when the Premier gave up. T~t is when he walked away frQm the negotiating table and said, 'This job is too big for me; I cannot handle this job.' So he was going to give it to the Supreme Court judges of this Province to take care of. Well, they did it, Mr. Speaker, they did it alright. So, Mr. Speaker, it was not . ~ ,feQeraJ ,qo¥ern=ent .~ ...... ~ ,...a , .. ~ a sene. 150

March. 7, 1983 Tape No. 67 NM- 1 MR. LUSH: It was not the federal government, it was the provincial government that put this in court. It was the provincial government who gave up on negotiating. It was the provincial government who gave up in terms of getting a political settlement. s ... , Mr. Speaker, I think our people are a little fed up with it really. I think they are a little fed up with this offshore. I think they are a little fed up with these confrontation tactics, and constantly fighting Ottawa. Mr.

Speaker, it would make one sick to hear thi.s government talking about, "Oh, we are not going to give it away. we are not going to give it away." Well, that statement is running a little thin now, Mr. Speaker, it has about run its cours7. For twelve years this is what this administration now have been uttering, "We are not going to give it away." Well, Mr. Sp~aker, in twelve years what have they done? They certainly have not given it away. That is for sure. But they have done nothing, absolutely nothing. That is the sad record, Mr.

Speaker, that is the sad record over the past twelve years, they have done absolutely nothing. The record is zilch. No, Mr. Speaker, they are no~ going to give it away. They are not going to give it away. "'h~ Premier gave up negotiating and went out and started wringing his hands, Mr. Speaker, and making fists. Well,now, Mr. Speaker, the Premier should know that a.closed hand gets nothing but a shut fist. The Premier should know that. And, Mr. Speaker, that is what the Premier has done. That is what he has done. He has closed his hand and he is going to get nothing but a shut fist. 151

March 7, 1983 Tape No. 67 NM - 2 MR. LUSH: It is time, Mr. Speaker, that this provincial government got together with the federal government and started negotiating. Get back to the people, and get back to the table. That is the mandate that the people of this Province gave the Premier in April of 1982. That was the mandate, not to put it in court. The mandate the Premier was given was to negotiate a settlement, the best settlement that he can get certainly. There is no Newfoundlander, Mr. Speaker, who does not want a good deal, who does not want the best deal that we can possibly get, but we want a deal.

We want a deal. We want to negotiate. we want to get the matter resolved. The people are getting sick and tired of this breaking off negotiations and blaming the federal government. Looking for excuses. Just political grandstanding, Mr. Speaker. So, Mr~ Speaker, the fact that we are not getting any revenues from offshore exploration and development would seem to rese squarely on the shoulders of the provincial government. They are the people, Mr. Speaker, and they are the ones responsible for the delaying tactics. They are the ones who put it in the court. They are the ones, Mr. Speaker.

Political grandstanding, making political points on the backs of Newfoundlanders, on the poor, the unemployed, that is what they are doing, Mr. Speaker. MR. NEARY: MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, Looking for a federal election. I just want to comment on that; that kind of devious tactic, I have been saying that we have been attacking the federal government of course,but the reason why for the vicious attack is the Federal Liberal Government, trying to give the impression, Mr. Speaker, that the only ones capable and willing to help Newfoundland are the Tories. What a lot of nonsense, Mr. Speaker, what a lot of nonsense.

But in their attempt to do this, with their 152

March 7, 1983 Tape No. 68 SD - 1 MR. LUSH: vicious attacks on Ottawa, I am afraid that they · have done irreparable damage to the view or to people's concept and attitude towards Canada, one probably that the Premier will be sorry for creating. But we have developed an attitude, we have developed attitudes and feeli~~~ about the federal government, about the Canadian nation, Mr. Speaker, that I am afraid is going to be hard to reverse and correct.

Do not think for one moment that the people of Newfoundland, you know, will all of a sudden forget the kinds of attacks that have been leveled at the federal government and a'SSUllle that, after all, i:t i:.--s not. -the -federal guvermnent we are talking about it is just the fact that they are Liberals • . --- ···-· · I am afraid, Mr. Speaker, that will not wash. I am afraid it is not going to wash. Now, Mr. Speaker, it goes on to talk about regional development. That is another area in which the federal government have fallen down.

And under this one they talk about the rural development agreement, an agreement that in the past was funded 90/10 - 90 per cent by the federal government and 10 per cent by the provincial government. Now, Mr. Speaker, they are afraid that this is not going to come through. Of course, anoth .er fear that they have, Mr . Speaker, is the fact that the federal government does not seem so favourably inclined towards giving the provinces this money that they did in the past. And they are a bit concerned about that, that the federal government would want to deliver these packages directly . Now, Mr.

Speaker, I am not so sure but if I were a federal Cabinet Minister that I would want th_e same thing when I look at the way those people spend money, spending money, Mr. Speaker, for political purposes. That is what has brought this about, it has been the way in which the Provincehave 'been spending their money. rt is not something that r do not think r would subscribe to if I were a member of government in the meantime. But the way that I viewed the spending of money by this provincial government, I am not sure but I would be in the same position as the federal 153

March 7, 1983 Tape No. 68 SO - 2 MR. LUSH : government is presently. But, Mr . Speaker, these programmes that we are talking about here are the programmes that are sponsored jointly by the federal government, the regional development. So they talk about the fact that ~ ruraL development plan is not going to be signed . Well, Mr. Speaker, I think it ~is going to be signed but the federal government, naturally , are concerned about it. They are concerned about how this money is going to be spent and they want to work out the guidel.i:nes.

And so they should to ensure tfiat that money is going to be spent equally across this 'Provi.nce . 'rhe ~emier ta1b so much about equality, we1.1, rural development funds have not Been distributed equaLly and ,:) 154

March 7, 1983 Tape No. 69 MJ - 1 MR. T. LUSH: they have not been spent, Mr. Speaker, in the most prudent manner. MR. S. NEARY: They are playing politics. MR. LUSH: They have been playing politics with this money, there is no question about it. And that is why the federal ~~vernment is holding up, .Mr. Speaker, they want to ensure that this money is going to be spent on a regional basis and is going to be spent, Mr. Speaker, where the needs are. And it is going to be spent in those areas where we can develop natural resources and not spent, Mr. Speaker, for political purposes.

That is the reason why this programme has not been signed. Mr. Speaker, the next issue I want to get into here, where they are talking about joint programmes,is search and rescue and defense. I suppose, Mr. Speaker, that is the first time that that has come up in a Throne Speech in this Province for a long, long time,and just brought up recently again by the government as a result of political grandstanding, Mr. Speaker. Imagine the nonsense of the situation of just a week or so ago when the Minister acbing for Energy wires a telex to order the rigs in, Mr. Speaker, f~om the offshore. What nonsense, Mr. Speaker!

My understanding of this is that there is a procedure. If the Minister 8f Energy (Mr . Marshall) had gone about what he did today, instead of ordering the rigs in, gone through that channel and tried to meet with federal government officials, to see if they could not come mp with some scheme. But, Mr. Speaker, how green do they think the people Newfoundland are? What do we think,that every time there is a storm th~t the Minister of Energy is going to wire a telex to Mobil and tell them to bring their rigs in? Is that how haphazardly we are going to have the thing organized?

I would have thought that there ia going to be some systematic 155

March 7, 1983 Tape No. 69 MJ - 2 MR. T. LUSH: way of doing this, that there is going to be some time in the year when the weather gets bad, from December to March or something, that there would be some regulations, there would be some rules as to governing these rigs in times of storm. But certainly you are not going to pick up the _ phone and call Mobil today because we hear there are going to be heavy winds tomorrow. Certainly, it has to be more systematic than that.

Is that what the Minister of Mines and Energy was suggesting, that every time there is a storm that either he or some federal person is going to call and have the rigs brought in? Certainly, there has to be -some system to it. What nonsense. You would not know but it was a plough down on Duckworth Street he was trying to call in, Mr. Speaker. What a silly way of going about something, and expecting the people of Newfoundland then to agree. Trying to gain political points, Mr. Speaker, on the workers of oil rigs. What a ridiculous thing to do. And it is so transparent that every person in Newfoundland, Mr.

Speaker, can see through it. Then, Mr. Speaker, on the Shoe Cove Satellite Tracking Station:we had known for months that was going to close down. Did we hear anybody on the government side say anything about it? Not a word, Mr. Speaker, until these two things came together and then suddently somebody realized that the people in certain parts of Newfoundland would be worried about that and they had not said a word,so they started their grandstanding again. It is like closing the barn door, Mr. Speaker, after the horse has gone. That was the same kind of situation.

Well, the Premier would like to see more money for transportation. So would I, Mr. Speaker, so would I. The Premier says the Province cannot develop unless it has a well-developed transportation system. I have been --··--·--- making that same statement about the Terra Nova District for 156

March 7, 1983 Tape No. 69 MJ - 3 MR. T. LUSH: years but the Premier does not seem to listen to it. .r.tr. Speaker, I would like to see more money for our transportatiop system, no question about that. do I have, Mr. Speaker? MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : What is my time -how much time Thirty minutes. 157

March 7, 1983 MR. LUSH: Tape 70 PK - 1 Thirty minute~ My golly! Well, Mr. Speaker, so they have looked at the items first of all that come under the joint progri'!!'Tt'es which t-h~=>:r say the federal government is trying to stymie because they want to have more direct input, or they want a more direct delivery system. Now they get into the other programmes,the social programmes, Mr. Speaker, the programme~ which are funded under what we call EPF, the established programme financing. And giving the impression, Mr. Speaker, that has 'been 'cut ~k,-giving the impression, · 1'ltr.

"Speaker, that we are losing $125 rnillione Now just so that hon. members can understand this,we should look at this established programme financing. This i$ an agreement by the federal government to help provinces with medicare and with pos -t-secondary education,and they agree to this for a certain fixed time. And the Llast agreement that we had was from 1977 until 1982, .frorn 1977 until 1982. And, Mr. Speaker, it is not meant to be a permanent programme.

The federal government refer to it as transitional relief, and,hopefully, somewhere along the line,when the provinces start generating money ,.they can get out of this expenditure. So it is something that has to be negotiated-when the terms are up. So in 1982 they negotiated a new one. They carne up with a different formula,agreed upon by the ministers • The Premier gives the indication that it was not agreed upon. It was agreed upon by all of the ministers of Canada. Certainly it was a different formula, Mr. Speaker, it was a different formula. One would expect it to be a different formula in these rough times.

But the Premier does not accept any cuts in Ottawa. We can cut all we like here, but the federal government,no understanding of that. They are not supposej to cut. Running now, Mr. Speaker, to a $30 billion deficit, • r • .. - • they are not supposej to cut. Well, the Premier 3ays, we are going to get $125 million less over the life of this agreement, over the 158

March.. 7, 1983 Tape 70 PK - 2 MR. LUSH: life of this latest EPF, giving us the impression, Mr. Speaker, that we are not getting as much money. Well, in 1982-1983, Mr. Speaker, this Province received $280 million from the EPF prograr $280 million. That is counting the. cash plus the tax, because tnc~·e is a tax point system worked into this. In 1983-1984, Mr. Speaker, in this year, we will be receiving $305 million. That is a 9 per cent increase over what we got last year. So, Mr.

Speaker, in 1982-1983 we got $280 million, this y~ar we will get $305 million, a 9 per cent increase, and yet the Province is trying to give us the impression that we are losing·money. ' Certainly we are losing money on an old formula, but nobody was under the impression that that formula was going to stay into effect. Nobody was under the impression that formula was going to stay into effect . .MR. NEARY.: Right on. MR. LUSH: Nobody is under the impression that this present formula is going to stay into effect beyond 1987, Mr. Speaker.

PREMIER PECKFO RD : The Prime Minister himself and all his ministers had indicated this formula can only increase and not decrease. MR. LUSH: has increased. PREMIER PECKFORD: MR. LUSH.: MR. NEARY: hon. gentleman would like it. .MR. PECKFORD : It has increased. It Not as fast as the cost~ No certainly. Certainly r No, not as fast as the The Prime Minister said on a number of occasions, when he . introduced the programme, and his ministers asked him, that it would increase as fast, and we quoted those things back to the . Prime . Minister at the last economic summit and fie. agreed (.inaudiblel. 1.59

March 7,1983 Tape No. 71 ah-1 MR.LUSH: I would say,Mr. Speaker, that is a sizeable increase for a government with a $30 billion deficit, that is a sizeable contribution .And trying to give our people the impression that we are getting a cutback in this area, Mr. Speaker, it is a misrepresentation of the facts, a distortion of the facts . And this is what I meant when I said this document is a misrepresentation, a distortion, half truths, Mr. Speaker.

This is an indication of it here,because we are,this year.receiving 9 per cent more on the EPF than we did last year • .MR.NEARY: . .Ill do~}ars .how . .mw:::h ..is .t.hat? MR.LUSH: $305 million. MR.NEARY: More. MR.LUSH: No , last year we received $280 million, $25 million more. In addition to that the federal government forgave $70 million in equalization. They forgave $70 million this year and last year, forgave $70 million in equalization. MR. TULK: Answer that now! MR.LUSH: And giving the impression, Mr. Speaker, that the federal government is doing nothing for this Province. Mr.

Speaker, I do not want to defend the federal government but I like to see the truth, I like for the people to know the truth. MR.SPEAKER (Aylward): Order, please! MR.LUSH: And this is what I said, I thought this document would be the kind of document - MR.SPEAKER: Order, please! The hon. member's time has elapsed. MR.LUSH: Can I just finish, Mr.Speaker? I only have a minute left. MR.SPEAKER: By leave 1 may the han. member finish? 160

March 7,1983 Tape No. 71 ah-2 MR.SPEAKER (Aylward): By leave. MR.LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I simply just wanted for the people of this Province to know the facts about the EPF programme and these are the ,facts. I just wanted to finish by saying that this document, this Throne Speech is a confession really, it is a document of confession, confession of defeat, a submission by this government that they have no ideas to develop this Province, that they have no purpose, they do not know where they are going, they have no hope, Mr.Speaker, or ·"they nave -~ no hope to the unemployed people af this Province.

The 45,000 or 50,000 people that are out there now , Mr.Speaker, without jobs, they have given then no hope. They have given no hope to our business community. It is a sad, sad Speech from th~ Throne and I would suggest one of the worst documents ever presented to this han. House. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: SOME HON.MEMBERS: MR.STAGG: Hear, hear! The han. member for Stephenville. liear, hear! Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Well,as usual I am not impressed by the dialogue from han. members opposite.

One hopes from year to year when you come back into the House that you will hear something different from han. gentlemen,but unfortunately the refrain is still the same. 1 61

March 7, 1983 Tape 72 EC - 1 MR. STAGG: On the one hand they would like to disassociate themselves from their soul mates in Ottawa but on the other hand they would not want to say too much because they never know when they are going to be out of a job and looking to Mr. Rompkey or one of his friends for a job. There were ten of them put on these rolls last year, Mr. Speaker, and - who knows? - I would say after the next el·ection there is going to be some considerable number more of them. MR. HODDER: What about the rents on the base? TeLl us about ~ ·r-i!ll~ .o.n ,the .base. MR.

STAGG: 'Tell us about the rents on the base.' The hon. gentleman opposite is asking about the rents on the base. It is the member for Port au Port. I am reading this into the record now so that I can send it out to my constituents. The hon. member wants the rents on the base raised as high as possible - he owns a couple of properties in Stephenville - so they can rent them at the highest possible price. That is what he wants, Mr. Speaker, that is what he wants. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. STAGG: I have stood steadfastly for reasonable rents on the Harmon complex.

The hon. gentleman masquerades as a person to the left but he is well to the right. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. STAGG: He is well to the right, Mr. Speaker. So I would suggest to the hon. gentleman that he not ask any more q~~stions like that. MR. HODDER: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER~lward) : On a point of order, the hon. the member for Port au Port. 162

March 7, 1983 Tape 72 EC - 2 MR. HODDER: I just want to point out, Mr. Speaker, that the hon. gentleman's remarks with regard to properties that I may or may not own are untrue. I would like to say as well, Mr. Speaker, that I certainly did not go through the whole base during election time, the Harmon complex, promising everybody, and got elected on the base on the promise that I would not raise rents. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker. · MR •. SPEAKER {Aylward): the hon. the Premier. To that point of order, .TD tha~ pai.nt .a£ order, PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, the hon. the House Leader for the Opposition (Mr.

Hodder) should go back to school and read Beauchesne and the rules of order of this House. That is a difference of opinion between two hon. members. The member for Port au Port does not want the member for Stephenville (Mr. Stagg) to speak because he knows he will be crushed right to the ground, Mr. Speaker. MR. NEARY: To that point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: To that point of order, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, I had no intention of getting into this point of order until the Premier stood and made the most ridiculous comment I have ever heard made on a point of order. ·Here you have one of his meffiQ~rs, a private secretary to one of the ministers - PREMIER PECXFORD: Parliamentary Secretary. MR. NEARY: - slandering and libelling my han. friend from Port au Port, lowering the decorum of the House. My hon. friend rightly raised a point of order 163

March 7, 1983 Tape 72 EC - 3 MR. NEARY: to defend himself against such slander and libel and smear tactics and character assassination, Mr. Speaker, there is not an ounce of truth in the statement the hon. gentleman made no more than there is truth in anything the Premier told us about the satellite station down at Shoe Cove - SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : MR. NEARY: Oh, oh! Order, please! Order, please! - or Burin or Corner Brook, or the $60 million deficit - SOME H<llll'. MEMBERS~ £lh .. , Qh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. NEARY: - no truth in any of these statements. And now, Mr.

Speaker, obviously it is becoming prevalent throughout the backbenches. Now they are going to start misleading the House, Mr. Speaker. PREMIER PECKFORD: Untrue. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, if the hon. the Premier would just restrain himself, just keep it down. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh 1 oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, my hon. friend has a very valid point of order, the only parliamentary device he has available to him at this moment to clear up a misleading statement made by the member for Stephenville (Mr. Stagg).

And I would hope that Your Honour will rule that there is a valid point of order and ask the hon. gentl~an who made that statement to withdraw and apologize to my hon. colleague. 164

March 7, 19.83 Tape No. 73 NM- 1 MR. SPEAKER (Aylward): Order, please! I rule there is no point of order in the exchange that I heard merely that the hon. member for Port au Port (Mr. Hodder) took the opportunity to clarify statements attributed to him and his intentions. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. STAGG: Th~ hon. memt ~ r for Stephenville. Hear, hear! Now I suppose I can get started. MR. HODDER: (Inaudible) the next time. MR. STAGG: The han. member, you know, is going to persist in this kind of interruption. The hon •. member will be lucky if I do not go down to Port au Port and put him into premature retirement.

SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. STAGG: The hon. member had better watch his bobber on matters of that type. MR. HODDER: You go knocking the federals and I am going to get you. MR. STAGG: Mr. Speaker, on the weekend I had the opportunity to speak to a fraternal service group that I was once a member of and, to my great chagrin, that the member for Port au Port (.Mr. Hodder) also was a member of at one time, the Stephenvil