Transcription by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions November 2, 2017 [Original] Government Policy and Procedure Mr. Higgs: You know, it has been an interesting week. Certainly, I think that it is time to do a little recap. I want to go back to the original mandate letter dated October 7, 2014. In that letter, the Premier had written to all the ministers—with all good intentions, I am sure—about their conduct while being a minister and their conduct while being in office.

Whether it be a conflict of interest or whether it be a perceived conflict of interest, their conduct, nevertheless, had to be above reproach. Accountability and transparency were the orders of the day. I would like to comment on and read the statement that is in the letter from the Premier to the ministers, this one to the particular minister in question: “It is not enough to avoid conflicts of interest; you must also be diligent in avoiding the perceptions of such.” The question today, right now, is very simple.

Does the Premier truly believe that the minister in question, the former Labour Minister, was really putting himself in a position of conflict? Was he putting himself in a position where there is indeed a perception of a conflict? [Translation] Hon. Mr. Gallant: We want to make sure our government is always as transparent and accountable as possible; this is important. It is important, because New Brunswickers deserve it. It is important because it leads to better decision-making to advance the priorities of New Brunswickers, such as growing the economy and strengthening our education and health care systems.

I can tell you that the Leader of the Opposition is quoting a letter I wrote and indeed signed. This letter was meant for the ministers. In this case, I think it is important to point out that the member for Campbellton-Dalhousie has not been a minister for a few months now. I can tell you that the transparency and accountability that New Brunswickers deserve is something our caucus and our government take seriously. That is why we are taking concrete steps to make sure our actions are transparent for New Brunswickers. [Original] Mr.

Higgs: It seems that the opportunity to enforce that letter was very much prevalent back in mid-August. The actions of the former Minister of Labour are wrong. His actions may be technically legal but still wrong in the eyes and minds and hearts of New Brunswickers. The Premier’s refusal to speak on the matter up to this point—maybe we have a breakthrough here—continues to cost him credibility and trust.

Transcription by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions A lot of questions are swirling around the now-infamous letter that is dated August 22. The copy of the letter that has been published is missing a key element: a date stamp showing when it was received. All government correspondence is generally received and date-stamped. Can the Premier produce just one copy of that letter that has been date-stamped? Thank you. Hon. Mr.

Gallant: Again, transparency and ensuring that we are accountable to the people of New Brunswick are important, not only because New Brunswickers deserve that but also because that will lead to better decisions on and better outcomes for the priorities of the people of our province—economic growth, education being strengthened, and improving our health care services. In this case, the member for Campbellton-Dalhousie did follow the rules, but we have said over the last few days that we agree with the opposition that those rules need to be strengthened.

We are willing to work with the opposition to strengthen the Conflict of Interest Act. The member himself has acknowledged that his current situation is a perceived conflict of interest. I want to make it very clear to the people of New Brunswick that we made it clear to the member for Campbellton-Dalhousie that he is in a perceived conflict of interest and that he has to act and make a decision between being a Liberal MLA or having the job that is perceived as containing lobbying in its description. Mr. Higgs: It is clear that in this situation, yes, we both agree now.

I think the Premier said that, that he agrees it is indeed a perceived conflict of interest. So, why was it not dealt with? Why was it not dealt with back on August 22, if that was the first time he knew about it? There is an old saying that paper won’t refuse ink. That letter dated August 22 might have been written at any time. It might have been written moments before the member for Campbellton-Dalhousie released it to the media. Without a date stamp or some other solid evidence, how are we to know? Do not ask the people of New Brunswick just to take it on trust.

The government and this Premier lost that privilege long ago. The roadwork patronage e-mails, the seniors’ asset grab, the Atcon action of this government, and countless more breaches have left the Premier lacking trust and credibility. Does the Premier have any solid evidence to offer verifying the supposed date on his letter to the member for Campbellton-Dalhousie? Hon. Mr. Gallant: Transparency and accountability to the people of New Brunswick are important.

Again, the Leader of the Opposition is citing a letter that I sent to ensure that the member for Campbellton-Dalhousie, the then Minister of Labour, would be recused from labour, which would be given to another minister. We took concrete action right away, and we are taking concrete action yet again. We made it clear to the member for Campbellton-Dalhousie several days ago that he must make a choice between being a Liberal MLA in this Legislature or having a job that is perceived to include lobbying in it. We made this choice very clear to the member for Campbellton-

Transcription by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions Dalhousie because we want to assure New Brunswickers that we are as transparent and accountable to them as possible. We want to do that because it is going to help ensure that we can lead on the priorities that people want us to advance in this province, such as economic growth and strengthening education and health care. We have taken concrete action, and this whole team stands by those actions. Mr.

Higgs: What we find confusing… What we find interesting is that statements have been dripping out over the past while. They are statements that are kind of conflicting, or a little bit more. It kind of reminds us of the property tax scandal, where we would get a little bit more, as we would all get to understand or become a little more savvy about the real deal. I have a question particularly related to the letter. The question is this: When was it actually written? Is there anything that validates that it was actually on August 22, as dated? That is one question, which has not been answered at this point.

The other question related to that is this: Is the date August 22 the date that the member in question was actually relieved of his duties as Labour Minister? Thank you. [Translation] Hon. Mr. Gallant: Once again, the Leader of the Opposition is referring to a letter I wrote to make sure the member for Campbellton-Dalhousie, who, as minister, was responsible for labour issues, would be recused and could no longer make decisions about these files. A conversation we had led me to take this concrete step to ensure the government is transparent and accountable toward New Brunswickers.

Again, we are taking other concrete steps. A few days ago, we informed the member for Campbellton-Dalhousie that he had to decide between being a Liberal MLA here in the House or taking a job that would be perceived as having lobbying as one of its functions. We are taking this concrete step even though the member for Campbellton-Dalhousie has complied with all the legislation that we have before us. Moreover, we are taking other concrete steps: For example, we will strengthen the Act to make sure it is clearer and has more teeth. [Original] Mr.

Higgs: I think that I need to ask this again: When was the letter written? I also want to know this: When was the member in question relieved of his duties? Am I to believe that this conversation took place on August 22, the letter was written on August 22, and the minister was relieved of his duties on August 22? That can take one simple answer if, in fact, that is the message that the Premier is trying to communicate. All he needs to do is answer: Yes, that is when it happened, August 22; that is when he was relieved of his duties, August 22; and that is when the letter was written, August 22.

That is all I need to know at this point. It is a simple question—one answer. Thank you very much.

Transcription by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions [Translation] Hon. Mr. Gallant: We took concrete steps to ensure our government is transparent and accountable toward New Brunswickers. We made sure the minister who was responsible for labour files was recused from working on them and no longer had authority to make decisions involving labour issues.

I can therefore tell you that we are going to continue taking concrete steps and working with the opposition to strengthen the Act. [Original] We are going to work with the opposition to strengthen the Conflict of Interest Act, and we are going to take concrete action. We have made it very clear over the past several days to the member for Campbellton-Dalhousie that he must choose between being a Liberal MLA in this Legislature or doing the job that he presently holds, which is perceived to contain lobbying in its functions.

We are doing this because we want to show New Brunswickers that we are as transparent and accountable to them as possible. Mr. Higgs: The only thing that is evident here is that the Premier is not willing to confirm when the actual letter was written, when the discussion was held with the member in question, and that the date was actually October 22. He is not willing to communicate that. When was the letter stamped? When did Mr. Dupuis and Ms. Wagner actually receive the letters? We are not being transparent. This government is not being transparent with the people of this province. It is very clear.

Is this another cover-up situation like the property tax scandal, which is now starting to surface? The Premier’s refusal, over the past few days, to answer questions on the growing conflict scandal makes us take a look back at his behaviour on other occasions when he found himself in hot water, such as the property tax scandal. We look back at the strategic absences from the province over the past three years every time that bad news was coming. Most recently, the Energy East Pipeline project failure found the Premier absent from the province.

As my colleague from Sussex observed, it took seven weeks for the Premier to show up as PCS closed. I want to understand. It seems as though the Premier is allergic to adversity. Can the Premier explain why a September 1… Mr. Speaker: Time. Hon. Mr. Gallant: I recognize that the Leader of the Opposition reads speeches and says things about Living SJ that he does not even mean. He did not know what was in his speech because he has all the backroom people such as Dominic Cardy and Kelly Lamrock writing his material. I

Transcription by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions would ask him to look at his questions before he gets up in the Legislature. Clearly, he thought that I would not be on my feet answering these questions. (Interjections.) Mr. Speaker: Order. Hon. Mr. Gallant: I am fielding the questions from the opposition with regard to this subject, and we have made it very clear to New Brunswickers that we are going to act. We indicated to the memb