VOL. 3 PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD: 3:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.m. TUESDAY, MARCH 10, 1981 .. , NO. 7 .. , ... .. , ''I ··,

March 10, 1981, Tape 235, Page 1 -- apb The House met at 3:00 p.m. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER(Simms): Order, please! STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS MR. SPEAKER: of Labour and Manpower. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. DINN: The bon. the Minister Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker, I would like to announce the appointment of a new Assistant Deputy Minister in the Department of Labour and Manpower, in the Occupational Health and Safety Division. This action is in keeping with the very high profile which government has attached to health and safety in the workplace.

Since the Occupational Health and Safety Act was passed in 1979, we have brought together in the Department of Labour and Manpower all functions and responsibilities for health and safety in the workplace, which heretofore was fragmented and scattered throughout several departments and agencies of government. Now that we have had an opportunity to get the new division working as a cohesive unit, we have been able to evaluate ~he capabilities of the current staff and to determine their ability to cope with the rapidly escalating demands for new and improved services in this very important area. Mr.

Robert Langdon will immediately take up the duties of Assistant Deputy Minister of Occupational Health and Safety. Since 1975 Mr. Langdon has been Assistant Deputy Minister of Manpower in the Department of Labour and Manpower. In that position he has had the first line responsibility for the Occupational Health and Safety Division since its inception. In fact 660 .. , ''I ''1

March 10, 1981, Tape 235, Page 2 -- apb MR. DINN: it is most appropriate that Mr. Langdon will be the first Assistant Deputy Minister in that division because he was one of the key persons involved in the framing and development of the Occupational Health and Safety Act. Mr. Langdon was also responsible for planning and directing the consolidation of the various agencies and divisions of Government into the new Division of Occupational Health and Safety in the Department of Labour and Man~uwer. Mr. Langdon has had a broad experience in both the provincial and federal public service.

He served with the provincial Department of Labour as an apprentice supervisor from 1960 to 1963. Following that he served as principal of two of our vocational schools,at Lewisporte and at Grand Falls for a period of four years. In 1967 he left the provincial service in favour ofl employment with the then federal Department of Manpower and Immigration. In 1975 he returned to the provincial service as Assistant Deputy Minister of Manpower. Mr. Langdon was born in Northern Arm and is fourty-four years of age. He is married to the former Betty Stockley of Botwood and they have two children. Also, Mr.

Speaker, I have a second announcement I would like to make, a companion to the one I just made. Mr. Wayne Green has been appointed Assistant Deputy Minister of Manpower to fill the vacancy created by the appointment of Mr. Langdon as Assistant Deputy Minister of Occupational Health and Safety. Mr. Green has been employed in the Provincial Public Service for the past ten years. He has been with the Department of Labour and Manpower as Director of Programme F inning since 6tl1 .. , ''l .. , .. , ''I ''l

March 10, 1981, Tape 235, Page 3 - - apb MR. DINN: 1977. Prior to that he was employed as Senior Analyst lvith Treasury Board Secretariat. M.r. Green holds a Bacl:).elor of Commerce Degree from r<temorial University of Nel-tfoundland and is currently doing graduate work towards his masters degree in Business Administration . He was born in st. John ' s and is thin:y - two years of age. Be is mar r ied to the forme .r Donna Carter and they have two children . MR. SPEAKER(Simms): The hon. the member for Terra Nova. 6(:)2 .. , "I ''] ~ ., ''] ~1

March 10, 1981 Tap e No. 236 DW - 1 M"-. T. LUSH: Mr. S?eaker, we on this side of the House welcome these.new appointments and wish both gentlemen well. I personally know Mr. Langdon and know that he is a very caoable and a very hard-working individual and I am sure that he will certainly bring a lot of experience to this particular appointment and I am sure will do exceedingly well, as I am sure will Mr. Greene. The only thing we would say, ~~r. SJ?eaker, to the Minister of Labour and r.-lanoower (Mr.

Dinn), is to ensure tha~ these gentlemen have available to them the resources that they are going to need to carry out this tremendous job relating to occupational health and safety. Because the two gentlemen can be very aualified, very aggressive and very efficient, Mr. Speaker, but if they are not provided with the resources, both financially and human resources,to carry out the onerous re­ sponsibilities which come under this particular division . then I am afraid that we are not going to get much improvement in the Occupational Health and Safet y division. So, Mr.

Speaker, again we would like to congratulate these two gentlemen. But we certainly do plead with the minister to ensure that the resources, financial and hurnan,are put in place so that these men can carry on the job that will be expected of them. ~~.SPEAKE~ (Simms): The hon. Minister of Labour and Man- DOWer. J.'IR. J. DINN: Mr. Speaker, this second .Ministerial Statement does not relate to the first one. Mr.

Speaker, in view of the fact that the hon. members of the Opposition have questioned the extent of my department's involvement in the two public service strikes ongoing at the College of Trades and Technology and the Workers' Compensation Board, I wish to make a statement particularly with reference to the series of events leading up to the strike 663 ''1 .. , .. , . .. .. , .. ,

March 10, 1981 Tape No. 236 ow - 2 ~1R. J . DINN: at the Colleae of Trades and Technology and the efforts of the Depart~ent of Labour and ~anpower to resolve that labour dispute . On 14 A9ril, 1980, I received a request from the Newfoundland Association of Public Employees for the appointment of a conciliation board to assist in a labour dispute between that association and the Board of Governors of the College of Trades and Technology , represented by Treasury Board , concernin g the renewal of their collective agreement affecting the support staff at the College of Trades and Technolo gy .

I ap9ointec a conciliation officer on 16 April, 1980 and the officer convened meetings between the parties on the 23rd and 24th of Agril, 1980. At that point :in time there were thirteen non -monet ary items and twelve monetary items outstanding in that dispute. Very little progress was made at those meetings since both parties were waiting for the release of the report of the conciliation board appointed in the ~eneral Service dispute . In view of this, meetings were adjourned and the conciliation officer made a written ret>ort to me. 664 ~I ~·1 l ~·1 ., ~~

March 10, 1981 Tape No. 237 RA - 1 MR. J. DINN: On April 28, 1980 and sub- sequently I decided,in accordance with

section 18 of the Public Service(Collective Bargaining)Act,not to appoint a conciliation board in this dispute. The association was then in a position to take a strike vote among the approximately 80 employees on the 29th of April 1980. The report of the conciliation board affecting the general service dispute was released on lOth September 1980.

Further meetings were convened by the conciliation officer on 29 October, 1980 and at that time the employer offered the unit the wage package recommended by the General Service Conciliation Board Report which was previously accepted by three thousand public servants in the general service unit. The unit at the College of Trades and Technology voted on and rejected that package. On the 30th of October,l980,the Newfoundland Association of Public Employees notified me that the College of Trades and Technology Support Staff Bargaining Unit would be in a legal strike position at midnight on 6 November, 1980.

In a further effort to resolve the dispute, conciliation meetings were once again convened between the parties on the 4th,Sth and 6th of Novenber,l980. I point out that at the outset of these conciliation meetings, there were twenty-five issues in dispute and with the ex- ception of wages and two minor issues,all were resolved on the 6 November, 1980. On 7 November, 1980, the bargaining unit went on strike over the wage package offered by the employer. Since the strike began, the Director of Labour Relations and the conciliation officer have met with the parties on a number of occasions.

In a continuing effort to resolve this dispute, both the deputy - , G65 .. , ''I '" ''I .. ,

March 10 , 1981 Tape No. 237 RA - 2 MR. J. DINN: minister and I have met with the parties; however, our efforts have failed to settle the dis­ pute. Officials of my department are in contact with the parties almost on a daily basis and are ready to convene additional meetings as soon as it appears that the parties are ready to alter their positions. Mr. Speaker, a question was raised as to why I did not appoint a conciliation board in the College of Trades and Technology dispute since that unit is considered separate from the general service unit.

I have previously stated that my officials recommended that a con- ciliation board not be appointed in this case.

However, my decision was also based on the fact that the conciliation board I appointed in the general service unit would make recommendations on a wage package and since all other major items had been resolved in the College of Trades and Tech- nology dispute, a recommendation on wages should serve as a basis for settlement as it did when the twenty-five hundred employees in the general service unit voted to accept the wage package and as it did when some three thousand employees in the maintenance and operational services unit voted to accept a similar offer from Treasury Board. Mr.

Speaker, the history of labour relations tells us that industry wide patterns or bargaining trends are often established when a new collective agreement is reached between an employer and a union. This settlement s~ts a trend for other industries or public service unions ''I ''1 .. , .. , in a ~ G66 ''t

March 10, 1981 Tape 238 PK - 1 MR. DINN: geographic area. In other words, the agreement will be a basis for other agreements for similar employers and unions. It would be irresponsible for any Minister of Labour to tamper with this procedure by appointing conciliation boards in disputes which affect an employer and a union in a similar work environment and would generally impair, rather than improve, the dispute resolution mechanism. During 1980 my dc~artment received 123 requests for the appointment of conciliation boards. Nine of these requests were applicable to the public sector.

I appointed five boards in the public sector to deal with these disputes and they are as follows: Newfoundland Association of Public Employees and the Waterford Hospital Corporation; The Newfoundland Association of ?ublic Employees and the General Service Unit; The Newfoundland Association of Public Employees and The Newfoundland Farm Products Corporation; The Newfoundland Nurses' Union and The Newfoundland Hospital Association and Treasury Board; and Newfoundland Teachers' Association and The Federation of School Boards and Treasury Board.

In the private sector, I appointed three boards to deal with labour disputes affecting the fishing industry as it applied to The Newfoundland Fishermen, Food and Allied Workers Union and the fish processors in the inshore and the fish plant operations. I also appointed a board in a dispute between International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers and Churchill Falls Corporation. To illustrate my remarks concerning industry settlement trends, I point out that while we saw a major confrontation in the fishing industry this year in Newfoundland, or last year in Newfoundland, I appointed 667 ''I .. , .., ''l ''I

,. March 10, 1981 Tape 238 PK - 2 MR. DINN: only one board to deal with a plant dispute between Fishery Products Limited and The Newfoundland Fishermen, Food and Allied Workers Union. The Board's recommendation in that dispute did not produce an immediate settlement, however, with modification it did serve as a basis for settlement not only for Fishery Products Limited but for all other plants in the Province such as National Sea and The Lake Group of Companies.

Negotiations are now ongoing in the mining industry in Northern Quebec and Labrador West which affect a number of mining operations, namely, the Iron Ore Company of Canada, Quebec Cartier Mining and Wabush Mines. A settlement in one of these operations will no doubt set an industry pattern or trend. If one of the local mining unions does, however, decide to break the trend and hold out for more, then that is a situtation par~llel to the dispute affecting The College of Trades and Technology and one which will be difficult to resolve because of the established industry trends. Mr.

Speaker, I have today mentioned only the dispute affecting The College of Trades and Techno~ogy. I am, however, fully cognizant of the ongoing strike at The Workers' Compensation Board. I do believe that any se'l:tlement in The College of Trades and Technology dispute will, no doubt, be a basis for settlement in The Workers' Compensation Board strike. I want to make it clear that I have just related the facts and in no way should it be interpreted that I am favouring either party in these disputes. I wish to assure the House that the services of 668 ''I ''1 .., .. , .. ,

March 10, 1981 Tape 239 EC - 1 MR. DINN: my department remain available to either side. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. the member for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: Mr.Speaker, there is nothing new in this particular statement, just a reaffirmation of the statements that the minister has been making in the past three or four days in response to the questions that we have raised regarding this particular situation. And, Mr.

Speaker, what it does,in the first instance,is to confirm the inflexibility of the government position in this particular strike with respect to negotiating in terms of increases in salary. And I think in this respect the - I refer bon. members to page four, in which case the minister confirms the position of the government in terms of negotiating with other bargaining units. The minister talks about setting a trend and the necessity of staying within the close range of that trend in negotiating with other bargaining units. Well, M~.

Speaker, the only thing I can say is the same as I said yesterday, that it seems to me that the government's position in respect for and out of concern for the collective bargaining process,that certainly it must be viewed by other bargaining units that the government is negotiating in good faith and that we are following the procedures, the accepted procedures, of collective bargaining, otherwise, other bargaining units may as well pack up and go horne, Mr. Speaker.

That kind of inflexible position that lacks sensitivity to and understanding for the financial problems that face workers in this Province today, brought on by the rising cost of living and other factors, Mr. Speaker, other financial factors, certainly must be considered. Secondly, the minister makes reference to why the conciliation board was denied, and again G69 .. , .. , ''I .. ,

-, •.J March 10, 1981 Tape 239 EC - 2 MR. LUSH: I can only ask the question as to why the minister is on the one hand recognizing the College of Trades and Technology , the workers, as a separate unit in terms of bargaining, but yet when it comes to setting up a conciliation board, he uses the recommendations from boards from other areas. Mr. Speaker, this again is a union in its O\ro right, a bargaining unit in its own right and I believe that is the way they should be dealt with . They should be dealt with as a separate unit .

And to deny them a conciliation board on the basis of some other unit is not the thing to do, because they are a separate union . Again, I understand that they are not a separate 670 '1 ,.1 ,.1 ~I ~I

March 10, 1981 Tape No. 240 SD - 1 MR. T. LUSH: bargaining unit out of their own choice, I understand that this was a decision made by governrnent,that they be a separate union. Now, Mr. Speaker, if they work in the same areas, if they have the same skills then the question I ask is why are they not considered a part of the General Service bargaining unit. And the answer is they are not a part of the General Service unit, that they are a separate unit and I believe they should be dealt with accordingly.

And just as a last point; the minister mentions the fact that there were 3,000 workers that accepted the agreement offered by government - 3,000 workers that is, in the General Service unit. My understanding is that number is far less than that and maybe the minister should check into it. But my understanding is that maybe this, Mr. Speaker, could be as low as 1,400 and that they are not totally similar. Mr. Speaker, we are talking about a large number of these people who would come from the Department of Transportation and Communications(who would be truck drivers, heavy equipment operators, this sort of thing,

whereas I do not think they have that kind of element within the College of Trades and Technology. So there is some difference. So, Mr. Speaker, just let me conclude my remarks by saying I am certainly not happy with the reasons given for the rejection of a conciliation board by the government. MR. SPEAKER (Simms} : Any further statements? DR . COLLINS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I would like to take ~s Qpportunity to announce that an important milestone has been passed in the effort by this Province and Canadian 671 ''1 "'1 "'I "'1 I "'1

_,.,..-- l-1arch 10 , 1981 Tape No. 240 SO - 2 DR. COLLINS: National Railway Comoany to ''I construct a marine elevator and related facilities,commonly referred to as a synchrolift,at the Newfoundland dockyard in St. John's. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. DR. COLLINS: This milestone, Mr. Speaker, is the signing which took place on Friday of last week o.f an agreement between CN and the design engineers, Newfoundland Design Associates Limited and Albery Pullerits Dickson and Associates Limited,for detailed design and associated services related to the construction of the synchrolift.

This design stage is expected to take from four to five months, after which the calling of tenders will take place. AN HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear. DR. COLLINS: The evaluating ang the awarding of tenders,it is expected,will take a further one and a half to two months. Provided that the cost of the project after tender e~aluation is within the economic limits set by CN and the Province, actual construction of the synchrolift will then commence. This will mean that actual construction should get. under way by early Fall.

The new facilit~which will be located on the site of the present Newfoundland Dockyard and adjacent properties 1will play a large

part in the future of the dockyard and the people employed there. 672 ''] ''] ''l ..,

March 10, 1981 Tape No. 241 EL - l DR. COLLINS: It is a fact that without the synchrolift the future of the dockyard would be in serious doubt. In addition, the synchrolift will enable the dockyard to increase the capacity of the facility and will assure 150 to 200 new jobs for Newfoundlanders. Because of the new synchro­ lift,the dockyard will be able to take on more and larger repair jobs which are presently going to other shipyards outside of Newfoundland. Since 1977, CN has been attempting to obtain Federal Government support for an expanded facility in St. John's.

Unfortunately, numerous delays were caused by the inability of the Federal Government to come to a firm de­ cision with respect to the matter. When it became apparent that the Federal Government was not moving ahead with the project, the Provincial Government reluctantly became involved and offered assistance to CN. The construction of this facility, and the negotiations that have taken place since the Province's decision to offer financial assistance,represent an excellent example of co-operation between this Province and a large fed­ eral corporation.

Under the conditions presently agreed to in principle by the Province and CN, the Province will make $6.5 million available to CN by way of a loan repayable from profits, and will pay interest during con­ struction. In addition,the Province will subsidize interest on funds obtained by CN so that the rate will hold at ll per cent. The total outlay by the Province is expected to be in the neigh­ bourhood of $10,000,000 dollars. While, like most major projects of this magnitude, the final go-ahead is not certain until the cost 673 .. , •· .., ''l .. ,

11arc h 10, 1981 Tape No . 241 EL - 2 DR. COLLINS: estimates are known, we have every reason to hope that this vital facility will be completed and the people of St. John's and the economy of Newfoundland will be the beneficiary. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : MR. HODDER: Hear, hear! The bon. member for Port au Port. Mr. Speaker, speaking on behalf of this side of the :aouse, we are pleased that the synchrolift will be going ahead. We feel that it will be of great benefit to St.

John's and will be of great benefit to the harbour and the facilities in the harbour and to our shipping efforts and the gaining of revenues to the port of St. John's and to the whole of St. John's and the Avalon Peninsula. Mr.

Speaker, having said that, I would say also that the only problem that we on this side of the House have with this particular announcernent,i s the phil.:. osophy behind it. we hope ar "d we would ask as well that when projects of this nature are needed in other parts of the Prov­ ince , and where there are not federal monies available or are­ fusal,that the government will, in the same way. place this type of money or be as generous to the other parts of the Province as they were to St. John's. SOME HON. MEMBERS : :aear, hear! MR. HODDER: However, Mr.

Speaker, let that not detract from the fact that this city is an essential part of Newfoundland and this city needs, particularly in this part­ icular time when 1 with the impact of the offshore about to hit this particular city of St. John's, we have to pay particular G/4 .. 1 •. 1 "'] •. 1 ~·I

March 10, 1981 Tape 242 EC - 1 MR. HODDER: attention to their needs. the residents, the people of St. John's,and But, Mr. Speaker, on the other hand, we are not to forget the problems, the very severe problems, while we think about the offshore oil,the gover~ent should not forget the very severe problems that the fishermen and the loggers and the people of the other parts of the Province are havin~ - as well, and perhaps some of their generosity could be put in that way. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : MR. SPEAKER: Bay de Verde. MR. F. ROWE: Further statements? ORAL QUESTIONS The bon. the member for Trinity - Mr.

Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Education. I would assume the bon. the member for Humber Fast (Ms Verge) is still the Minister for Education in the Province. She nods, Sir, so I would assume that she has not yet resigned, submitted her resignation- MR. THOMS: She should resign though. She should resign. MR. F. ROWE: - and, therefore,I would assume, Mr. Speaker, that she has issued her public apology to the N.T.A. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. F. ROWE: Mr.

Speaker, the minister did not indicate last week what teacher allocations would be made for the second and the third year of the revised high school programme. I was wondering if the minister could indicate to the House, Sir, how many extra teachers over and above the number that we have now in our schools - how many extra teachers she projects will be required for the revised 675 ''I .. , ''I .., ''I

March 10, 1981 Tape 242 EC - 2 MR. F. ROWE: high school programme,at the end of it? How many extra teachers will be required in the first, second and third year? Could she give us a total projection of the number of teachers that would actually be required to implement the revised high school programme at the end of the three year programme? MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : The hon. the Minister of Education. MS VERGE: Mr. Speaker, first I wish to address the pot shot taken at me by the hon. member opposite.

I have said nothing, I have insinuated nothing, I have thought nothing to cast aspersions on the teachers of the Province and there is nothing for which I should apologize. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MS VERGE: Mr. Speaker, I believe that the plan for the reorganization of senior high school, to which the N.T.A. had input, which the N.T.A. helped shape, will lead to benefits for the young people of our Province.

I further believe that adequate teachers have been provided for the start,with Grade X1 of that programme in September, and that in the years to follow,when curriculum broadening will occur and the high school enrolment will grow with Grade XII, adequate teachers will be provided, and with that belief, I am pleased with the challenges that not only teachers and administrators, but all of us who have responsibility for education face.

I am glad that we have those challenges and I am confident that the teachers will successfully meet the challenges as they have in the past ably handled course additions, curriculum revision and administrative changes. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! 676 .. , .. , ' ') ' 'I ''I .. ,

March 10, 1981 MR. ROWE: MR. SPEAKER (Simms ) : for Trinity - Bay de Verde. MR. ROWE: Tape No. 243 EL - 1 A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary, the han. member Mr. Speaker, I have not insinuated anything with respect to what the minister might have said but if the hat fits, the han. madame can wear it. It is as simple as that. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. ROWE: Mr. Speaker, the han. the minister did not answer the question. I will try again.

Would the minister indicate to the House, since she did not indicate last week,the number of teachers that would be allocated in the second and the third year introductory of the revised high school programme~ Could she give us some idea of the projected number of teachers that will be needed over and above what we have in the schools at the present time in order to implicate the high school pro­ grammes with the addition of Grade XII7 Surely the Department of Education must have some sort of a projection as to the number of teachers that are required other than a vague statementfromthe minister saying that she is satisfied that adequate numbers of teachers will be brought into the schools to implement that new programme.

MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the Minister of Education. MS. VERGE: Mr. Speaker, as I said last week, Cabinet is now considering the resources in terms of teaching personnel, building grants and operating funds required to fully implement the reorganized high school programmes as we deliberate on the budget for the next fiscal year. We have decide~ teacher allocations for next year,when the revised programme with Grade X begins. It will be phased in over three years. Grade XII will not be taught until three years from now.

The changes that we made for next year will provide 107 extra teaching positions province- 677 ''I .. , ... '"I ''I

'''t" March 10, 19 81 Tape No. 243 EL - 2 lo!S . VERGE: wide, more than would have been provided had we 'not made these changes. There will be more teachers in our schools next year thari this year, despite the fact that there will be 2,000 fewer students. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. ROWE: Mr. Speaker, I do not know what han. members are clapping about - MR. SPEAKER (Simms): A final supplementary, the han. member for Trinity - Bay de Verne. MR. ROWE: - over there. The han. minister yet has to answer the question I put to her but she did refer to the 107 teachers.

Now, I will quote her; the minister in­ dicated that the changes in the teach.er allocation means that 107 teachers,over and above what would have been if changes were not made, would be made available next year.

Now, I put it to th.e hon. minister; ·does that mean that there will be 107 extra teachers over and above the number that we have in the classrooms at the present time,or does this mean that there was a formula in existence uhich would in fact have reduced the number of teachers and now they revised that formula to at least keep it at ten or fifteen teachers over and above what we have at the presenttime?

Andwill the minister not admit and indicate to this House that whether or not we have the implementation or the new revised high school programmes being phased in1 whether or not we would have that, that there would have been those same so-called 107 teachers allocated anyway, s~ 678 ''1 ''1 ''1 ''1 ''1 ''1

f1 March 10, 1981 Tape 244 PK - 1 MR. F. ROWE: really the 107 teachers, the so-called mentioned by the minister,has nothing whatsoever to do with the phase in to the revised high school programme. l\N HON. ~1EM.l'<ER: _____ .,. ---- (Inaudible), obvious to (inaudible) MR. F. ROWE: If you cannot understand it do not show your ignorance. !1R. SPEAKER (Mr. Simms): The bon. Minister of Education. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! f.1S. VERGE: Mr. Speaker, the teachers to be allocated by government to school boards for next year were made with bearing in mind two important considerations.

One is a start with Grade X of the reorganized high school programme in September. The other is the circumstances created by the sharpe enrollment decline province-wide. ·We have lost in our schools, from Kindergarten through Grade XI over the past decade, 16,000 students. 'Dispite that, we have 1,300 more teachers. MR. NEARY: Dropouts? MR. F. ROWE: 4.7 (Inaudible) . MR. TULK: Do away with the film· MS.. VERGE: The guidelines under which government allocates salary units for teachers relate to the number of students in the schools. It is quite a reasonable arrangement. MR. NEARY: You are not doing your jobs. MS.

VERGE: The ratio - the guidelines were changed this year for next year. The main ratio was lowered from 24.92 to 1 to 24.5 to 1, and a saving clause was changed from 3 per cent to 2 per cent 1which have the effect of providing 107 more teachers province-wide for next year,compared with what there would have been had we not made these changes. And the start of the reorganized high school programme was 679 •.. ''I .. , 'i

March 10, 1981 Tape 244 PK - 2 MS. VERGE: changes. a major consideration in making those Further changes will be made to provide additional teachers for the broadening of the curriculum at high school,which will flower over the next two to three years, and for three years from now when the first Grade XII students will be in our schools. SOME HON. ME!-IBERS : Hear, hear! 11.-'q. SPEAKER (Hr. Simms): The hon. membe~ for Eagle River. SOME HON. H.EMPERS : Hear, hear! HR. SPEAKER: I indicated the hon. member for Eagle River unless he wishes to yield to his colleague, The hon. member for Trinity-Bay de Verde. ~1R. F.

ROWE: Mr. Speaker, let the record show that the hon . minister has yet to answer any of the questions I put ~o the hon. minister. The min~ster has not indicated - M;R,, 'I'HCl-\S: She has not got them rrerrorized yet. She has to rrerrorize the answers. MR. F. ROWE: MR. SPEAKER: r-1R. F. ROWE: - whether there are 107 - Order, please! - teachers over and above the the number serving in the schools this year. Let me put another broader question to the ~~inister of Education (Ms. Verge), Mr. Speaker. MR. OTTENHEH1ER: (Inaudible). MR. F. ROWE: The Minister of Justice (Mr.

Ottenheimer) is in enough trouble now, he should not try to get on this bandwagon. MR. SPEAKER: MR. OTTENHEIMER: MR. F. ROWE: MR. SPEAKER: has a supplementary. Order, please! Order, please! The hon. gentleman is very touchy, eh? Oh very touchy, very sensitive. Order, please! The hon. member 660 .. , .. , .. , ... ' 'I ''I

March 10, 1981 Tape 244 .PK - 3 MR • F • RO\'ffi : Mr. Speaker, could the minister indicate whether she has any projections - AN BON. MEMBER: Oh , oh! MR. SPEAKER (Mr . Simms): Order, please! M.R. F. RO\'fE: - as to the estimated capital grants that \'I ill be required for the phasing in of this programme over the next three years , and any projection of th e capital costs that will be required to build any additional classrooms , or any additional space or schools for the implementation of this programme? SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear , hear! ~1 R. F. ROWE: The first question, Mr.

Speaker, does the minister have any idea whatsoever of the operating grants that will be required over the next three years? And secondly - AN RON . MEl1BER : It will be answered in the Budget. MR. F. ROWE: It will be answered in the Budget, yes. And whether she has any projected costs of the capital grants that will be required to implement the Grade XII programme? MR . THOl.fS : men)orized too. She has the answer to that one 681 ''1 •. 1 ~·1 ~1 ~1 ~·1

71( March 10, 1981 Tape No. 245 SD - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Simms): MS. VERGE: The hon. Minister of Education. Mr. Speaker, it is really hard to keep up with the questions and keep them all separate. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh. MS. VERGE: On operating grants, yes, we do have estimates of what will be required in future years and ,also ,we are looking forward to receiving from the Federation of School Boards a proposal applying to the long­ term, about a different method of providing operating grants, and we will consider all of this information as we finalize the Budget.

As for capital costs, again, as I have said before in this hon. House over the past couple of years, there have been detailed studies made of each and every high school in the Province to determine the extra facilities needed to implement the re-organized high school programme - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MS. VERGE: - in terms of both programme support space and also additional classroom space to house the extra students who will be in our schools with Grade XII three years from now. And all of this information will be considered as we finalize our decisions.

And the actual figures will be announced when the decisions are made, when our Budget is brought down and all hon. members will find out at thct time. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear. MR. HISCOCK: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Supplementary, the hon. member for Eagle River. MR. HISCOCK: A supplementary to the Minister of Education. With regard to Pinsent's Arm and Norman Bay they were supposed to have an extra teacher last year and because they did not have accommodations they could not get one, could the Minister of Education inform this House 6ti2 ''I .. ''I ''I ...

March 10, 1981 Tape No. 245 SD - 2 ~R. HISCOCK: with regard to rural areas, because Grade XII is only going to separate urban students fror. rural areas, what are the schools going to do which have four Grade XI students,or two or one student in those schools, are they going to be boarded in other communities, have to come to Gander, have to come to Stephenville? What is the minister going to do with students in rural areas or are we not going to turn around and put a greater division between urban and rural students? MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : The hon. Minister of Education. MS. VERGE: Mr.

Speaker, the re-organized high school programme promises significant benefits .especially for students in rural areas. It is a programme spanning three years with a credit system which will allow the small schools greater flexibility in scheduling courses. They will be able to stagger course offerings from year to year so that over the three years of senior high school ,students will be able to experience a more well-rounded curriculum and programme of studies. ~1R. HISCOCK: (Inaudible) MS.

VERGE: In some of our very small communities where there are only a very few senior high school students now, where you have two, four students eligible for Grade XI, Grade XI is not offered. It is not viable to provide a high school programme in every single school in the Province. And for the few students in that situation , as I say,that exists with Grade XI, and it will exist in three years time when Grade XII comes on stream, there is a programme of bursaries to provide these students with living expenses to go to the nearest larger community where the high school programme is offered.

And in the case of students in Pinsent's Arm or Norman Bay, they can go to Mary's Harbour, they can go to Cartwright, they do not have to go to 683 .. , ''i I~ i ., . ''I

March 10, 1981 Tape No • . 245 SD - 3 MS. VERGE: Stephenville or one of the large centres on the Island. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear. MR. SPEAKER (Simms j ; The hon. member for Windsor- Buchans. MR. G. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Mines and Energy (Mr. Barry).

We have been hearing so much these past few days about energy shortages in 1985, I am wondering if the minister would indicate - and various sites have been identified, or various sources to take up the shortfall,and we have been hearing about Cat Arm, the development of Cat Arm River - would the minsiter indicate what Newfoundland Hydro's position is with Cat Arm? Are we going to develop the Cat Arm River as a potential power si.te? MR. SPEAKER: MR. L. BARRY: The hon. Minister of Mines and Energy. Mr.

Speaker, if we get the proper re.sponse and proper co-operation from the federal government we can expect - SOME HON. MEMBERS : Here we go again. MR, BARRY: Mr. Speaker, to see the needs of this Province met for quite a long time in the future by a Lower Churchill development. And in order to get the optimal Lower Churchill development 1 we need the federal government to recognize its national responsibilities which is to see that electricity can be transmitted freely from Labrador to wherever the markets may be in Canada or elsewhere. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear. MR. FLIGHT: Supplementary, Mr.

Speaker. 684 .. , ''l ''l .. , ''I '·I

·~arch 10 , 1981 MR. SPEAKER (Simms): for Windsor - Buchans. M;R . G. FLIGHT: Tape No . 246 DN - 1 A supplementary, the bon. member With regard, specifically,to the Cat Arr development, Mr . S~eaker, Ne1J£ound lan d Hydro is purported to have done thirteen or fourteen environmental studies on Cat Arm, would t he minister indicate to the House whether or not those studies have indi cated that Cat Arm shoul d indeed be developed? MR . SPEAKER: The hon . Mini ster of Mines and Energy . MR . L. BARRY: Mr.

Speaker, there have been environmental studies done on the Terra Nova River, on Cat Arm, on just about every river, I suppose, you can find within the Province of Newfoundland,with a view to determining just what the environmental aspects of hydro develo~ments on any of these sites might be. There has been no decision made with respect to any future develop­ ment of hyd~o or other generation of electricity on the Island of Newfoundland.

Until we determine whether the federal government is going to accept its national re­ sponsibilities to see that we can develop the Lower Churchi1J 1 we will not be making that decision. Provided the federal government makes their decision in time, and time is running out,and we need a decision within the next few months in order to permit us to get a project going on the Lower Churchill 1 which could be of benefit not just to this Province but to Eastern Canada as a whole. ~ - G. FLIGHT: A supplementa .ry, Hr. Speaker . MR . SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. member for Nind sor - Buchans .

Gi:iS ~ · 1 ~ · 1 •. 1 •. 1 "'1 •. 1

March 10, 1981 Taoe No . 246 DW - 2 !>IR . G. FLtGHT : Would the min ister aq ai.n, specifical Ly , talking about Cat Arm, ~r. Speaker, assure the House that in the event that the Cat Arm River is considered for Hydro development that the Cat Arm development will be subject to the Environmental Assessment Act passed by this House months ago? The Upper Salmon was exempt from the regulations under that legislation and Newfoundland will pay the price forever.

So now will the minister assure the House that in the event Cat Arm is considered for hydro development 1 that that project will have to meet the regulations and abide by the legislation under the Environmental Assessment Act? MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : MR. L. BARRY: The han. Minister of Mines and Energy. ~x. Speaker, first of all, on a considerable inaccuracy in the member's statement,the people of this Province will not pay forever for anything done with the Upoer Salmon project. To the contrary, Mr.

Speaker, the consumers of this Province will benefit forever from the cheaper electricity that is obtained there than would be obtainable from a thermal generating unit. They will benefit forever! SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. L. BARRY: Mr. Speaker, as to the main question, I think it has been fairly obvious for some period of time in parliaments everywhere in the civilized world,that engaging in speculation on hypothetical questions is,to say the least, non­ Productive. MR . L . THOMS : Tttr. Speaker. MR . SPEAKER: The han. member for Grand Bank. MR. L. THOMS: Thank you· very much, Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER: You are welcome. GbG •. 1 ''] ''1 ''1 ~ · 1 '1

March 10, 1981 Ta~e No. 246 DW - 3 .MR. L. THOMS: Mr. Speaker, I have a question I would like to direct to the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) this afternoon. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. L. THOMS: Mr. Speaker, the fishermen in St. Lawrence - SOME RON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : Order, please! MR. L. THOMS: If I could get the attention, Mr. Speaker, of the Minister of Fisheries 1I would like to ask him a question. Mr. Speaker, the fishermen of St. Lawrence have no place in which to store thier bait because of the lack of insulation in the bait holding depot there. I under­ stand, Mr.

Speaker, that during the fisheries conference at Salt Pond, Burin last year,the minister made a commitment to the Fishermen's Committee of St. Lawrence to provide funding for the insulation of this provincially owned bait holding unit. My question, Mr. Speaker, is would the minister confirm to this House and to the fishermen of St. Lawrence,that he did, in fact, make this commitment? MR. SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Fisheries. M-R. J. MORGAN: M.r. Speaker, any conversations I had with the Fishermen's Committee of St.

Lawrence,or any commitment made to them,will be gladly discussed with them when I meet with them in the very near future • .MR. L. THOMS: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. M_~. SPEAKER: for Grand Bank. A supplementary, the hon. member Gi:l7 '·I ''I ''I .. , ''I

March 10 , 1981 Tape No. 246 DW - 4 MR . L. THOMS : Mr . Speaker, the fi shin g season is drawing very, very clos ·e now for the fishermen of St. Lawrence and would the minister then indicate whether or not funds will be made a·vailable in the immediate future for the insulation of this bait holding unit? MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : The hon. Minister of Fisheries. ~R . J. MORGAN : ~r. Speaker, the need for these kinds of facilities, of course, is being debated and discussed now by the officials in the Department of Fisheries in our planning for the new budget for 1981/82.

And within the pext few days, in fact, I will be sitting down with the council of St. Lawrence, also with members of the Fishermen's Committee, Mr. Leo Slaney, Mr. Dick Edwards and others,and discussing all the needs of the fishe .rrnen in the St. Lawrence. R . L. TH OMS: A supplementary, Mr. Spe.ake;r. GtiB ~·1 ~'] I ~·1 ''1 ']

March 10, 198] Tape No. 247 RA -1 MR. SPEAKER(Simms): A final supplementary, the hen. member from Grand Bank. MR. L. THOMS: Yes, Mr. Speaker, one final supplementary. The minister mentioned sitting down aild I was wondering where this meeting is going to take place,because,Mr. Speaker, the minister made a commit­ ment to me,and this I know because the commitment was made to me not to the fishermen, that he would visit the district and meet with the fishermen prior to the open­ ing of this session of the House. Now, Mr.

Speaker,that did not happen • But could the minister tell me when he will be visiting the district of Grand Bank and meet­ ing with the fishermen, particularly the fishermen from the Lamaline' to St. Lawrence area. MR. SPEAKER: The hen. Minister of Fisheries. MR. J. MORGAN: I wish I could, Mr. Speaker. You know this morning I spent three or four hours meeting with fishermen (inaudible) from around the Province. MR. L. THOMS: MR. J. MORGAN: I am not interested in excuses. This afternoon people from the district of Fogo and on it goes every day, fishermen's groups and organizations.

I do the best I can to meet with all of them that request meetings. I intend to travel the Burin Peninsula later on this Spring and I can assure the han. gentleman I will be meeting and discussing all the problems pertainingto the fishery with the fishermen's committees. AJ'.T ' HmT. ~'!::~'lEER: MR. SPEAKER: MR. WARREN: the Premier. MR. FLIGHT: The best Minister of Fisheries we ever had. The hon. member for Torngat Mountains. Yes, Mr. Speaker, my question is to He was a poor Mjnister of Forestry. 669 ''i .., · · ~ ''i

March 10, 1981 MR. SPEAKER(Sirnms): Mountains. MR. WARREN: Tape No. 247 RA - 2 Order, please! The hon. member for Torngat Mr. Speaker, I would like to know from the Premier if he has been successful in arranging a meeting with the Federal Minister of DREE (Pierre De Bane) concerning this Coastal Labrador agreement? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question. We have been attempting for about three months now to arrange the meeting,as I have indicated to the hon. member and other members who have asked the question,over the last 70 or 80 days.

Up to this point in time it has been a failure, we have been very unsuccessful in arrang­ ing that meeting. The minister did promise me the last time I met with him,a little over a year ago,that we would have a meeting on the general development agreement in particular, that is the umbrella agreement,and then the various sub­ sidiary agreements that come thereunder~ the most import- ant of which right now is the Coastal Labrador agreement. Last week again we contacted his office both by phone and by telegram 1 and there has been no indication of when the minister will come to the Province for that meeting.

Other indications have come to me from different groups around the Province,which have called the minister's office ,indicat- ing that he is coming. We did have a tentative date establish­ ed, it was Friday the 13th which makes no difference to me, but it was Friday the 13th and we had arranged this Friday for the signing, if that was necessary, and if the federal government had their share of the money. We have indicated to them that we have had our share for a couple of years now.

So, we are prepared to sign the coastal Labrador agreement today, yesterday, tomorrow 1Friday the 13th or whatever day, so that we can get on to get this construction season as 690 '·I ''I ''I ''j "I ''I

r: March 10, 1981 Tape No. 247 RA - 3 PREMIER PECKFORD: part of the development opport- unities that are needed,and the services that are needed on the coast of Labrador. So, that is where it is right now; we have not been able to get a firm date out of the minister, we have been contacting his office by phone, we have been wiring his office, so that we have had it in writing,and to this point in time we cannot get a firm date. There was a firm date but it has been cancelled apparently 1 now, unless we get some indication before Friday. MR. SPEAKER(Simms): A supplementary. The hon. member for Torngat Mountains.

MR. WARREN: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. I am sure a yes or a no would be sufficient for the first answer. My second supplementary is, if the cost-shared agreement for the Labrador Strai$ road is a 90/10 agreement ,is the Premier ncM ready and willing to sign or will his governrrent accept anything less? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, it is hard for rre to give a yes or a no anawer to some of the questions that are asked by hon. members opposite.

I apologize if the answers are too long 1 but in the interest of trying to provide the hon. member with as much information as possible,I think that would justify me in answering it rather than just a yes or no. Mr. Speaker, I do not intend to negotiate different percentages here in this hon. House, that is a matter of negotiations be­ tween the ~nter-Governmental Affairs people, the Department of Transportation and the officials of DREE.

So, I do not intend,at this point in time 1to get into negotiating here, which will be reported as to what I would accept or would not accept or what the government and the Cabinet would accept or not accept, I can only say that we are ready to sign the Coastal Labrador agreement along the lines to which the 681 ... ''I ''I

March 10 , 1981 Tape No. 247 RA - 4 PREMIER PECKFORD: negotiations have led up to about a month ago. MR. SPEAKER(Simms); A final supplementary. The hon. member for Torngat Mount ains . MR . WARREN: Yes, Mr. Speaker. My final supplementary is, has the Premier any indication that some components in the Coastal Labrador agreement will either be taken out or 692 ..1 ''! . I •. 1 •. I ''I

March 10, 1981 Tape 248 EC - 1 MR. WARREN: dramatically reduced in order to ratify the 90/10 cost sharing for the Straits road? MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, we are still negotiating with the federal government and want to sign the Coastal Labrador agreement. I am not prepared at this time to say whether one component is in or one component is out until I see the final position of the DREE officials. The agreem~nt has not been signed and there have not been final 't~' crossed and 'is' dotted. So until I get that back from them, I will not know.

We want the full agreement as presented to them signed wit~ no components out and we are prepared to sign with our share of the money on it. Unfortunately, the whole thing involves more than just the Coastal Labrador agreement too. We do not want to have to trade off a mile of Trans-Canada Highway for signing the Coas~1l Labrador agreement, it should be done separately and we are having problems that way because 1 apparently, the federal government or the Treasury Board in the federal government,are talking about envelope approaches and trading off something for something else there.

We want to sign the Coastal Labrador agreement in the same way as we _have .signed other agreements in the Province, go on to sign the NORDCO agreement, go on to sign the Trans-Labrador Highway agreement, go on to sign the Trans-Canada Highway agreement, go on to sign the Industrial Development agreement. All of these are there. We are budgeting for them from our point of view, but I cannot negotiate right now. MR. THOMS: PREMIER PECKFORD: would sign some agreements! SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. WARREN: MR. SPEAKER: ,Thank God for Ottawa! Thank God for Ottawa,if they Hear, hear! A supplementary, Mr. Speaker.

A supplementary, the hon. the member for Torngat Mountains. 683 .., .. ,

7'i March 10, 1981 Tape 248 EC - 2 MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, a final question to the Premier. It probably could be asked of many of the other ministers, but I would think that probably the Premier could give a proper answer. If there are further delays in the signing of the Coastal Labrador agreement, and where the provincial government does have on land facilities such as depot stores, fish plants and so on, will those fish plants and the fishermen and the people on the Labrador Coast be deprived of carrying on their normal fishing season be~~use of inadequate facilities presently owned by this government? MR.

SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. the Premier. PP~MIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, we will have to deal with them individually. Right now we have had to finance the synchrolift totally out of our own pocket as a Province; we have had to finance NORDCO to keep it going until a new agree­ ment was signed, 100 per cent by the Province; and, of course, we will try to ensure that the fishermen of Coastal Labrador are not deprived of much-needed facilities, but we will do it on an individual basis so that if, in fact, Mr.

Rompkey and the federal government are not prepared to sign their share of the Coastal Labrador agreement, we will see that the fishermen of the Labrador Coast are not going to be the victims of that kind of decision. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER: The Capes. MR. HANCOCK: Hear, hear! The han. the member for St. Mary's - Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the hon. the Minister of the Environment (Mr. Dawe). Would the minister tell this House whether his department has any plans to require recycling of beer cans and soft drink cans? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of the Environment. u84 ' 'I .. ,

March 10, 1981 Tape 248 EC - 3 MR. DAWE: Mr. Speaker, I thank the han. the member for the question. Right now there is a process ongoing as it relates to legislation in other provinces and otrter jurisdictions for the recycling of various products such as beer cans and soft drink bottles and so on. Once that process is finished,in the next month or so, there will be a recommendation made to myself and at that time we will make a decision on what direction we think the Province should go as it relates to legislation or, in fact, as it relates to any sort of litter problems. MR. HANCOCK: MR. SPEAKER (Simms) ; Mr.

Speaker, a supplementary. A supplementary, the han. the member for St. Mary's - The Capes. MR. HANCOCK: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Some time ago, Labatt's Brewery started canning beer. Has the minister any indication if any other major companies of the Province intend to follow the same route, or has the minister any plans to ban unreturn­ able cans? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of the Environment. MR. DAWE: Mr. Speaker, I am not aware of any other company that intends to do that right now. MR. WARREN: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Mr.

Speaker, in the absence of the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Brett), I will ask the Premier this question. I understand that yesterday the Department of Highways closed the old Cabot Highway between Little Harbour East and Southern Harbour in Placentia Bay. Now, the

preamble, Mr. Speaker, is that this highway has been used by men from Little Harbour for going to cut firewood and, in fact, at the present time there is a federal community 685 ''1 . ..,

March 10, 1981 Tape 248 EC - 4 MR. 1\lARREN : progranune ongoing in the connnunity and the employees there were picking up large rocks for the slipway, but this has been stopped because the Department of High\-!ays has closed off the road completely, could the Premier find out why it was closed off and if it will be reopened to carry on this project? t1R. SPEAKER (Simms) : The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Yes , Mr. Speaker, we will check that o~~ in the next half hour and have an answer for the hon. member before the House closes this afternoon. MR. HISCOCK: MR. SPEAKER: Eagle River. MR . HISCOCK: Mr.

Speaker . The hon . the member for A question for the Premier. Could the Premier inform this House that with regard to problems of bottles and tins being thro\o.TD along G86 ~I ''] .. , ~ 1 ~1

Harch 10, 1981 Tape No. 249 EL - 1 MR. HISCOCK: the sides of the roads. And in our parks, and with the high cost of gas and electric bills and various food products in this Provincer can the Premier inform this House whether he is going to set up a department of consumer affairs with his old minister again? When can we expect this appointment to take place? MR. SPEAKER (Simms ): The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr.

Speaker, the important thing is whether the government is moving to try to address itself to these issues 1 not whether there is a separate department for every problem that the government has or that the - MR. HISCOCK: You cannot have Fisheries and En- vironment and you cannot have Justice and Consumer Affairs. PREMIER PECKFORD: - the Newfoundland society has so, therefore,we will continue - MR.

SPEAKER: Order, please~ PREHIER PECKFORD: - to initiate policies to try to alleviate those, for example, and I ask the hon. member to join with us in supporting Gull Island instead of Muskrat,as opposed to some of the other hon. members on the other side,so those low electrical bills can stay there, so that we can have stably priced power. That is one way. You do not solve the electricalprice system of the Province by establishing a Department of Consumer Affairs - SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

P~UER PECKFORD: - what you do is that you prefer Gull Island over Muskrat so that then we will have that stably priced power. MR. THOHS: Why did not LCDC (inaudible). PREMIER PECKFORD: Now, as it relates to litter in the parks, I am sure the minister responsible for parks - fig? ''I '1 '1 .,

March 10, 1981 Tape No. 249 EL - 2 MR. THOMS: Why did LCDC not prefer it? MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : Order, pl.ease! PREMIER PECKFORD: - I am sure the given division of Consumer Affairs can adequately look after that. And th;-~ I am sure, Mr. Speaker, that not one more tin would be picked up in Catamaran Park because there was a Department of Consumer Affairs over and above what will be picked up now because we have Division of Consumer Affairs. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The time for Oral Question has ex- pired. PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES MR. SPEAKER: and Manpower. MR.

DINN: The hon. the Minister of Labour Mr. Speaker, I would like to pre- sent a report of matters transacted•by the Minister of Labour and Manpower during 1980 under provisions of the Labour Relations Act, the Public Service Collective Bargaining Act, the Fishing Industries Collective Bargaining Act, the Newfoundland Teachers' Collective Bargaining Act, the Report of the LabourStandards Board andthe Report of the Newfoundland Labour Relations Board for 1980. NOTICES OF MOTION MR. SPEAKER: MR. OTTENHEIMER: The hon. the Minister of Justice. Mr.

Speaker, I give notice that on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act To Amend the Fire Prevention Act." ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS FOR WHICH NOTICE HAS BEEN GIVEN MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I want to respond to the hon. member's question of a few minutes ago about the road at Little Heart's East, MR. WARREN: PREMIER PECKFORD: that road contact, Little Harbour East. Pardon? 688 ... .. , •. I

March 10, 1981 Tape No. 249 EL - 3 .MR. WARREN: Little Harbour East. PREMIER PECKFORD: Little Harbour East, sorry. That road has been looked after as of nine o'clock this morning. The reason why it was blocked off was it was an old road, a diversion of an old road on which there was a hole and there was a safety problem. The Department of High111ays, as of nine o'clock this morning , were in contact with the people of that community itself to work out a way in which they can still do their job without us interfering with them in closing off the road. So it is taken care of. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

SPEAKER (Simms) : The hon. the Minister of Justice. MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, members may recall that yesterday the hon. mPmhPr fnr - Sm.1E HON. ~1EHBERS : MR. SPEAKER: MR. OTTENHEIMER: Oh, oh! Order,please! Thank you. Hon. members may recall that yesterday the hon. member for Grand Bank (L.Thoms) asked a question with respect to whether I had received a copy of the Mahoney Royal Commission, to which I answered noJ and then when I expected to have it.

I have been in touch with Judge Ma- honey; I understand that the report is completed and is being typed or prepared for presentation 1 and the information we had from him was that certainly within four weeks it would be handed in. MR. SPEAKER:. Before proceeding to Orders of the Day hon. members, I am sure, would like to join me in welcoming to the Galleries today the Resident General Manager of Bowaters in Corner Brook, l·1r. Wallace Clark. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. THOMS: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. fi89 ''I .. , ''I ·~ 'I

\ I M.arch 10, 1981 T.ape No. 249 EL - 4 HR . SPEAKER (Simms) : A point of order, the hon. member for Grand Bank . MR. THOMS: t-1r . Speaker, I would like to make a motion , if I can get lea ve of the House, under Standing Order 23, that the regular order of bu siness of th e House be suspended to debate a matter of urgent public importance, namely, the Provincial Government's policy with re spect to the adminis tr atio n of ju stice in this Province and ,in part ­ icular ,to the Royal Newfoundland Constabul~ry and the failure of the government to set up an independent inquiry to look into the problems in th e police force. 70 0 ~~ ~~ ~ 1 l ~~ ~ 1

March 10, 1981 Tape No. 250 SD - 1 MR. L. THOMS: Mr. Speaker, there is reason to believe that the City of St. John's is being inadequately policed and that there is a concern for the safety of the citizens of the city. I believe, Mr. Speaker, that there is a - MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Order, please! I do not believe the hon. member is permitted to debate the matter at this point. He is supposed to tell me what the matter is anc_ then I will determine whether or not it is permissible. The hon. the President of the Council. MR. W. MARSHALL: Mr.

Speaker, on that particular motion, Your Honour and the House arefully familiar with the rules governinq this particular Standing Order. The rule is that a matter , it is not a matter that it be urgent. vle do not deny that certain matters that have ' been brought up from time to time might be urgent in themselves but it must be a matter 1;orhich is urgent to debate. It must be a matter, Mr. Speaker, for which there is no other opportuntity for debate. I refer Ycur Honour to the fact that the Address in Reply is already on the Order Paper, it was debated yesterday, it is going to be debated today.

But this is not a matter, Mr. Speaker, that is being brought up that is within the rules for suspension of the ordinary rules of today, it is notof sufficient urgency for debate,and, Mr. Speaker, I would gainsay, that it is being brought up not for that purpose anywav , but just for the purpose of getting publicity. MR. THOMS: To that point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: member for Grand Bank. MR. THOMS: The that point of order, the hon. Mr.

Speaker, I believe that this is a matter that does come within the requirements of Clause 23 of the Standing Orders of this House, that this is a matter ~e there is an urgency of debate. I believe that this 701 ' 'I ' 'I ''!

March 10, 1981 Tape No. 250 SD - 2 MR. L. THOMS: government must be persuaded and they must be persuaded immediately, Mr. Speaker, that this is a very urgent matter and there is an urgency to debate it because if not, Mr. Speaker, you are going to find the situation vis-a-vis the policing of the City of St. John's in chaos. Thecitizens of St. John's are concerned and should be concerned for the safety of the citizens of the city and I believe, Mr. Speaker, that there is a real urgency of debate and that the business of this House should be suspended to debate this matter.

I think it comes well within Standing Order 23. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : MR. MARSHALL: The hon. the President of the Council. Mr. Speaker, if the hon. gentleman wants to get up and make statements he can refer to Beauchesne . I mean, the matter is dealt with in Beauchesne, Mr. Speaker, from 91, 92 and 93. The matter is not urgent of debate because the hon. gentleman says it is or for that matter any hon. member. MR. L. THOMS: (Inaudible) says it? PR,EHIER ;E'ECKFOF,D; MR. MARSHALL: MR.. WARREN : MR. SPEAKER: Beauchesne. Beauchesne, page 287 - (Inaudible) urgent, you know.

Order, please! MR. MARSHALL: "'Urgency' within this rule does not apply to the matter itself, but means 'urgency of debate'", this is paragraph 287, "when the ordinary opportunities provided by the rules of the House do not permit the subject to be brought on early enough a.nd public interest demands that dis -cussion take place immediately." answers the position. MR. J , HODDER: Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I contend that that To that point of order, Mr. 702 ''I 'I '1 .. ,

March 10, 1981 Tape No. 250 SD - 3 MR. SPEAKER (Simms): I will hear one other submission. To the point of order, the bon. member for Port au Port. MR. J. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, I contend that there is an urgency here in that there is no other time to bring it up than today, tomorrow being Private Members' Day and then the other days taken up with legislation which the government has arbitrarily decided would be debated on that particular day. AN HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear. MR. HODDER: This is a matter of complete ugency, it is a matter which deals with the breakdown of law and order in a large portion of our Province.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! With respect to the point of order, it is a matter that has been raised quite frequently in the last few days. Certainly the citations quoted by the President of the Council (Mr. Marshall) are quite in order in this particular case. It is a situation where it is the decision of the Chair, at least the role of the Chair, to determine whether or not there is urgency for debate not whether or not the matter itself is urgent or important.

The question here is whether or not there is urgency for debate and ~n view of the fact that there is provision on the Order Paper for Address in Reply which is traditionally very wide­ ranging, I submit to hon. members that there is ample time to debate the same matter under that particular Order of the Day, therefore,! cannot permit the motion at this time. 703 .. ' 'j ' 'I .., 'l

March 10 , 1981 Tape No . 250 so - 4 ORDERS CJF THE DAY MR . SPEAKER {S imms) : Order 1 Addres s in Reply . The debate was adjourned by the hon. member for Carbonear. SOHE BON . ~1EMBERS : Hear, hear . MR . R . MOORES: Thank you , Mr. Speaker . Yesterday , Mr . Speaker, when I was winding up my remarks, I believe I was making some rather derogatory references to the press. And they all left . MR. MOORES: And they all left, yes , indeed. And th at, Mr . Speaker , is consistent, very consistent with the attitude of the media in this Province . MR. STAGG: They are afraid to take it . They do not like it . 704 ~1 '1 ~I ~·1 I ~·1 .. ,

!1arch 10, 1981 Tape 251 PK - 1 MR. MOORES: Now that Question Period is over and the government has again made headlines, they will rush off to their typewriters and type up whatever propaganda they can to promote and encourage the position of the government in this Province. No doubt about it that the scourge of the average citizen in this Province today in regards to the dissemination of information in an objective and unbiased, non-partisan fashion, the scourge of the citizen in this Province is the biased, partisan Tory press that exists within this city today. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

MOORES: If Messers Kirby and Wakeham and a half a dozen others in the press gallery ever decided not to vote PC, their subconscious would explode. They would not know what to do, they would not .know where to stand in this Province, if they could not vote any way but Tory. MR. STAGG: linaudible) . MR. !.1QORES: Tomorrow, wbat will tbe ~eadl~ne be? MR. THOMS: Some watchdog the press is in this Province. MR. MOORES: Nhat will the headline in The Daily News be tomorrow morning? And the headline in The Evening Telegram be? ~m. THOMS: (Inaudible). MR. MOORES: Finance Minister (Dr.

Collins) states that the Province of Newfoundland is going to finance the synchrolift for St. John's. t1R. HOLLETT: Finance CN. MR. MOORES: The taxpayer of Newfoundland once again is being sucked dry - ·-·· MR. STAGG: Subsidizing all. MR. MOORES: - to provide jobs and financial securities for the City of St. John's 1 a parasite, a plague, 705 ''I ''I ''I

March 10, 1981 Tape 251 PK - 2 HR. !·100RES: a drag on the citizenry, on the taxpaying person in this Province for the last hundred years. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. MOORES: And what do you think? There is no either/or that we are going to give you this synchrolift and take away the crosstown arterial like the Premier of this Provincr said to the municipalities; He said, either you impose property tax or we take away your municipal grants. No choice for the City of St. John's.

Nothing at all will they have to sacrifice, but they will drag and suck more blood out of the populace of this Province for their own greedy ends. SOME HON. ~1EMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. MOORES: And who supports it? The member for Mount Scio (Mr. Barry), a St. John's district. MR. BARRY: MR. MOORES: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. MOORES: I will support St. John's, yes. You bet you will. Hear, hear! You bet you will after having a crack at Placentia West and getting flung out. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. MOORES: St. John's members­ MR. BARRY: MR. MOORES: SOME HON. MEMBERS: AN HON. MEMBER: MR. MOORES: SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear!

You are like a lot of the Carbonear is wising up too. Carbonear is safe. Hear, hear! (Inaudible) nomination. I noticed this morning - Oh, oh! 7U6 . .. ,

-~ :1a .rch 10 , 19 81 Tape 251 PK - 3 MR. SPEAKER (Mr. Butt): Order, please! MR. MOORES: I noticed this morning in The Daily News that the writer was very polite in saying that yesterday was my first appearance in the House since it opened. And I am so happy and proud to say that last week I spent five days, full days, in five different cormnunities and I talked to 400 of my constituents and all 400 of them are very pleased with my representation as their M.H.A. SOME HON. MEMBERS; Hear, hear! MR. MOORES: And I have not a dou~t, Mr.

Speaker, that when the Premier has the courage - he had the courage a couple of - AN HON . 1-lEMBER: (Inaudible) opposition (jnaudiblel. MR. MOORES: Listen now! Listen! - he had the courage I think four weeks ago or five weeks ago when he was in Toronto,talking to some poor 1 unfortunate interviewer, the Toronto Globe and Mail or the Toronto Star or Sun or something or whatever, and he said, 'I would be prepared not only to call an election in Newfoundland, given a certain set of circumstances, but I would be prepared to withdraw Newfoundland from Confederation.' PREMIER PECKFORD: MR. F. ROWE: MR. MOORES: 111R.

F. ROWE: PREMIER PECKFORD: MR. FLIGRT; HR. MOORES: Not true. Ah, go away. 'Separate', he said. Of course it is true. You would like it to be true. You cannot live ~'lith it, 'Fred 1 • Now,the Premier had the courage and he was being prompted by members of his caucus to call an election, that the time was right. We are ready now to go to the people. And something happened within the next 707 "'1 .., •. 1 I . .. ,

'7 March 10, 1981 Tape 252 EC - 1 MR. MOORES: three or four weeks. We are not sure over here on this side what it was, but we have this feeling that somehow or anoth&the Premier and his cronies went back to their constituencies and they found out that the government of this Province was not quite as popular as they thought. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MOORES: So now they have cooled the election call. You will notice that the big issues have switched from Hibernia andconstitutions, to false and misleading promises of jobs and economic upsurge.

They no longer talk about constitutions and oil fields because of the 400 constituents, Mr. Speaker, that I talked to last week, 90 per cent of them were fed up, were poisoned, were completely poisoned with the Premier talking about oil and constitutions - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

MOORES: - while their daughters and sons were unemployed, while they were up to their knees in potholes and gravel, when they could not get a bed in a hospital, when their children were going to schools that were filled up with garbage, while half the unions in this Province were on strike, and we have a floundering economy with the highest rate of taxation, the lowest rate of income and,generally speaking, a complete mess, and the Premier of this Province talking about oil fields and constitutions. MR. STAGG: MR. MOORES: And that would not be so bad - How much time do you have left? A couple of minutes now.

I just talk, actually, for the benefit of my caucus members. They love to hear me speak! SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. HODDER: He tells it as it is. 7C8 .. ,

.... ,,, 1'/ March 10, 1981 Tape 252 EC - 2 MR. MOORES: As you very accurately pointed out, the press gallery is empty. I do not need them, I do not want them. MR. BARRY: You are better than a stink bomb when it comes to cleaning out the place. MR. MOORES: And if any member of the media or the government side wants to upseat me or unseat me as the member for Carbonear, I will take a blank cheque, Mr. Speaker, and pay for his campaign expenses. SOME HON. MEMBERS: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. FLIGHT: Hear, hear! Oh, oh! And that includes the Minister of Mines and Energy (Mr. Barry) and the Minister of Forestry (Mr.

Power). MR. MOORES: I mean, I would not have it said in Carbonear that you were not financially well off enough to put up a good fight. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MOORES: this Province - PREMIER PECKFORD: mark you are. MR. MOORES: And the problem with the press in They do not recognize what a big Oh, yes, they do. Yes, they do. When it comes to my appearances in courts of law etc., they know how to crucify and continue to crucify and continue on and on over a period of five years to crucify with no letup. And then when it comes to making a sensible point in this House, where do they go?

They go out to their bottles, up with their typewriters in their press room. And you talk about the condition of this Province, my friend, vis-a-vis the media, hang your heads in shame, not only on this side, but on that side as well, because the only losers in this Province when something like that happens, when one of the 709 .., ·-~ .,

---- March 10, 1981 Tape 252 EC - 3 MR . MOORES: integral parts of a democracy breaks down, are the people, and the people are everything or should be everything to us. MR. BARRY: Apparently, you are not looking for the press to get your word around the district. MR. MOORES: Not a chance. I get free Householders, paid for by the government, the taxpayers, every year. MR, BARRY: A good government. MR. MOORES: Yes, I would agree with some of the things that government has done. MR. TULK: Very few. MR. MOORES: Very few. MR. BRETT: At least you understand that (inaudiblel government first, eh? MR. MOORES: sm.m HON.

MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : minutes left. MR. MOORES: Yes. Oh, oh! Order, please! The hon. member has about eight Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I have eight minutes to suffer in this House, because I believe, Mr. Speaker, that this House has become a complete waste of time, a complete waste of taxpayers' money. What we are here for, what we are demanded to be here for, I do not know. I mean, I am up now speaking, on my feet, because I feel some sense of responsibility to my caucus, most of all, in this Address in Reply. I mean, 710 ., ' I

111arch 10, 1981 Tape No. 253 DW - l MR. R. ~·100RES : every word that I s~eak ,there is a tape recorder up there, there are secretaries who will type it up and it will be passed down in booklet torm tomorrow and it will be tossed into the garbage. That is it,thousands of dollars of the taxpayers money gone down. You know, it appears to me that some people have nothing better to do. I mean I have sat here time and again, Mr. Speaker, and listened to the member for Stephenville (Mr.Stagg) provoke and interject. I mean, you would think you would have better sense, boy! SOME RON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. R.

MOORES: You know, you are a professional man, a lawyer, go out and have a cup of coffee. Really! MR. F. STAGG: I apologize. MR. R. MOORES: I do not acceot your apology because the apology in itself is an interjection. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. R. MOORES: It is very difficult, Mr. Speaker, very difficult for any member of this House to concentrate, to emphasize the very important issues facing the people of this Province today. And I remind certain members on both sides of the House that the basic issues in this Province are not Hibernia and the constitution. The y were at one time.

But the Premier of this Province is losing ground very, very quickly on these issues. He knows it and any • pundit, political pundit familiar with the vibrations of the electorate is aware of it as well. Because right now, this season, this construction season in Newfoundland, road construction and other services such as hospitals and schools and that type of thinghavebeen seriously curtaileQ. Unem­ ployment is going to rise even worse than it was last yeqr.

And I am very serious when I say that there are sons and daughters of people who will not even get ten weeks of stamps this year to draw unemployment insurance benefits. 711 ''I 'I .. , .,

March 10, 1981 Tape No. 253 mv - 2 ~R. R. MOORES: And those are the real issues facing the people of Newfoundland. More and more the people are =orning to realize that this confrontation attitude that exists between the provincial government and the federal government is costing us, is costing us in jobs, in economic development, it is costing us in our image in this nation.

There are two premiers right now in Canada who are becoming more and more hated by the popul.::.::ion and they are Lougheed of Alberta and Peckford of Newfoundland,both of whom have very serious separation tendencies, very, very immature attitudes that 'if you do not give me what I want 1 the marbles go horne.' You know, it is so ridiculous to hear the .Minister of Mines and Energy (Mr. Barry) asking Ottawa to get on with making decisions as a national government-and then yeste-rday on the media I hear that Newfoundland wants to nartake in the negotiations with St. Pierre,or France and Canada.

I rnean 1 you would not know but we were a nation. I mean what an insult to the protocol, the diplomatic Protocol of international negotiation, that a Province, a dependent entity within a nation,wants to supersede the diplomatic powers of a nation and negotiate with France. MR. FLIGHT: The minister wants to do that. He wants to be the Ambassador to Canada. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. R. MOORES: I mean, gee whiz ,where is our perspective? What c'lo we think we are?

We are a little Province of$500,000 people that is relatively ignored in Canada,except for an occasional reference to oil,and in time Canada will straighten that out. In time Canada will straighten that out. If we do not soon toe the linef well, we will be put in our place. And if it has to happen,I do not blame Pierre Trudeau for putting the pinch on Newfoundland, you know, we have been parasites 7 'j 2 'j '1 'I

March 10, 1981 Ta p e No. 253 DW - 3 MR. R. MOORES: now for thirt y y ears, we have been draqging the taxoayers'rnoney out of Ontario and Alberta and so on. It is time we paid our way. AN HON. MEMBER: What about (inaudible). 7 '13 ' 1 ' I . '1

a.·. March 10, 1981 Tape 254 EC - 1 MR. MOORES: Look, do not talk to me about politics, do not talk to me about semantics or manipulation or anything else 1 the truth of the matter is that we have been dependent upon the taxpayers of Canada since we have become a Province. Now, nobody is saying we should kiss their behinds at this point but, boy, we have to come around to some sensible, negotiating way of thinking and put our­ selves in our place in this nation. You do not jump from number ten to number one overnight just because you have a few barrels of oil off the coast. Mr.

Speaker, I am privileged to have addressed this hon. House. Thank you. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. BARRY: MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : and Energy. SOME HON. MEMBFRS: MR. BARRY: Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker. The han. the Minister of Mines Hear, hear~ I want to compliment the last speaker, Mr. Speaker, because after two sessions since the last election, we have finally gotte~ a clear exposition of what the policy of the Liberal Party in this Province is; that is, a policy, Mr.

Speaker, of attempting to divide the people of this Province between the people of the bay and the townies, the traditional tactics of division, the tactics that have seen this Province dragged down because we spent too much time fighting with each other instead of trying to fight to bring ourselves up to proper standards of living, to proper levels of productivity in the workplace. But, Mr.

Speaker, not only have we seen that the policy of the Liberal Party is to divide, we have also seen that their policy is to viciously attack, venomously attack, attack with the label of 'parasite' the close to 50 per cent of the population of this Province which live in the greater St. John's area. 7 '14 ''I ''1 ''I

Mar ch ~0 , l.981 Tap e 254 EC - 2 MR . BARR Y: Now, Mr. Speaker - AN HON. MEMB ER: Where do (inaudible) stand? MR . B ARR Y: Well, give me a little bit of poetic licence here. Mr. Speaker, there are one or two - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh , oh! MR. SPEAKER (Bu.tt): Order, p lea se! MR. BARRY: There are one or two people, you know, who live wi~hin fifty miles of this great edifice we stand in here today. There are one or two people, citizens of this Province. And, Mr.

Speaker, let it go out far and wide that the policy of the Liberal Party, as ably, clearly articulated by the previous member speaking opposite, that policy is to label the people of St. John's as parasites. Mr. Speaker, that is unjustifiable, that is totally unjustifiable. Now, Mr. Speaker, let us first of a11 test the first premise here. The entire thesis a:Found which members opposite are acting is that this government draws its support from St. John's. Now, Mr. Speaker, let us count our seats. I look to my member standing in the doorway of this House having a smoke. Mr.

Speaker, I look for the member representing the great town of Happy Valley - Goose Bay. Is there a Liberal .member there, Mr. Speaker? No, a Tory member, a P.C . member. Mr. Speaker, we go a little West, starting from the North and moving south we move a little West in Labrador and we go to those great towns of Wabush and Labrador City, and what 'do we see . there, Mr. Speaker? Do we see a Grit represent- ing those towns? No, Mr. Speaker. In the other door of this House, Mr. Speaker, we see the very able member, the P.C. member who represents those two great towns. 7 ·1s ''! '1 'l 'l ''l . I '1

March 10, 1981 Tape No. 255 RA - 1 MR. LEO BARRY: Now, Mr. Speaker, if I could move just a little South to the great city, the second city of Corner Brook. SOME . HON. MEMBERS: MR. L. BARRY: Liberal member? MR. BAIRD: MR. L. BARRY: Hear, hear~ Do we have, Mr. Speaker, a No, Sir. Mr. Speaker, not only do we not have a Liberal member we have SOME HON .. : MEMBERS : (inaudible) MR. L. BARRY: Hear, hear~ - one, two, three,and I would say that the Minister of Health is close enough in his attachments with Corner Brook, four Tories, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear~ MR. L. BARRY: Now, Mr.

Speaker, if I can move a little to the Southwest, who do I see over there representing the great district of St. George's~Is he a Liberal, Mr. Speaker? MR. L. THOMS: Do not forget (inaudible). MR. L. BARRY: No, Mr. Speaker, hnd,Mr.Speaker, I skipped over 1 in moving to the Mininster of the Environment, I skipped over the great member that we have from Stephenville. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear~ MR. L. BARRY: The great town of Stephenville. Now, is he a Liberal? MR. L. THOMS: (Inaudible) see about that. MR. L. BARRY: Now, Mr.

Speaker,if we want to move a little to the East and we have to obviously pass by Botwood, the great town of Botwood and I see my colleague- I am sorry, Exploits, I see my colleague 1 Dr. TI•TOmey, the 7 'j 6 .. , .. , 'I ..,

March 10, 1981 Tape No. 255 RA - 2 MR. L. BARRY: representative 1able representative of that town. MR. THOMS: Po not forget (inaudible). MR. L. BARRY: And,Mr. Speaker, we move through the town of Grand Falls and do we run into a ~iberal member there, Mr. Speaker? No, we have the gentleman who is about to give you a break in the Chair, the Speaker of this House of Assembly. And,Mr. Speaker- now,what do we have? I have completely canvassed the Province from the North to the South and we have P.C. members,Mr. Speaker, per­ vading in the entire political life of this Province. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR.

SPEAKER(Sirnrns:) MR. L. BARRY: Order, please! So, Mr. Speaker, the entire .thesis upon which the members opposite are operating is totally out to lunch,is totally out for lunch. I can only assurne,Mr. Speaker, that members opposite are like the lernrnings,they are engaged upon a great headlong rush to destruction. They do not have the courage to give it up and say, ' We do not have a chance; Mr. Speaker, 'in the next election, we may as well quit now'~ SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. L. BARRY: They are trying to set a situation up where they are going to be flung out, Mr. Speaker,in the next election - SOME HON.

MEMBERS : MR. L. BARRY: it in a very able fashion. Oh, oh! - and they are going about Their headlong rush to destruction,Mr. Speaker, is being carried out in a very co-ordinated fashion. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. L. BARRY: But now, Mr. Speaker, we cannot let that attack on the great city of St. John's 7 'j 7 ''i .. , ''1

March 10, 1981 Tape No. 255 RA - 3 MR. L. BARRY: and the people of St.John's go unchallenged. As the member for Mount Scio, Mr.Speaker , as the member for Mount Scio,I say I am proud to represent a district which incorporates not just an urban riding but incorporates the municipalities of Portugal Cove and St. Phillips , Mr. Speaker, gives us representation from the rural part of our Province as well. And,Mr. Speaker, I say to you, that there is nothing- when you see the hard working people of Mount Scio, when you see the hard working people of St. John's South, St. John's East, St. John's Centre, St.

John's East Extern, St. John's North, and so on,and you see the way that these people work to earn their daily bread and they have been labelled as parasites, Mr. Speaker, that should be a con­ tempt of this hon. House. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. L. BARRY: It is shameful, it is shameful,' it is venomous,it is despicable Mr. Speaker, it should not be allowed for a member to get up in this hon. House and label several hundred thousand of his fellow Newfoundlander's as parasites. MR. C. POWER: MR. L. BARRY: I have to take it that Lack of understanding. Now, Mr.

Speaker, I have to take it, that is the policy of the great Liberal party- sorry-the once great tiberal party of this Province. Because there is nothing great about a party that harnesses its policy around labelling hundreds of thousands of people who happen to live in the city of St. John's as parasites. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. L. BARRY: Parasites! Now, Mr. Speaker, you only have to look around you. Go down to the harbour 7 'j 8 ., .. , ..,

•.'t ~1arch 10, 1981 Tape No. 256 EL - 1 MR. BARRY: and speak.to some of the long- sharemen down there and see how many of those have it soft and easy in the way of living. Go talk to some of the con­ struction trades, Mr. Speaker, that are out building the New­ foundland Telephone ~uildin~ that I can see from here, or the Taxation Data Centre that just went up, Mr. Speaker, or a St. John's synchrolift that is going to go up because of the efforts of this government. SOME HON. 111E.MBERS : JVIR. WARREN: picket lines? MR. BARRY: Hear, hear! ~fuat about the people on the Mr.

Speaker, I am proud to re- present - I am proud to represent the district in Mount Scio where I can say that the ninety-odd per cent are like myself. They were not born with silver spoons in their mouths. They have to get out and earn their living by the sweat of their brow and they are doing that and they are doing it well and they are doing it proudly. And, Mr. Speaker, there are no parasites in the district of Mount Scio. HR. WA:qREN: There is one. MR. BARRY: And to say that - Yes, there may be one, Mr. Speaker, and he is present right opposite.

This happens to be in the district of Mount Scio, right here today. Hon. members are standing and to have my constituents and other constituents in the St. John's area labelled as parasites is just too despicable to comment on. Mr. Speaker, the government of which I am proud to be a

part 1 is determined to represent all parts of this Province. We are determined to represent this Province from Cape Chidley,or I should say the Button Island off Cape Chidley 1 to the tip of the Burin Peninsula, Mr. Speaker. You go from the Bill in St. George to Cape Spear, Mr. Speaker, and this government has the interests of every 7 'i 9 .. , '1 .. , 'I

'"4 Mar ch 10 , 19 81 Tape No . 256 IB -2 MR. BARRY: voter of this Province at heart. And, Mr. Speaker - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (BAIRD): Order, please! The Chair is finding it very difficult to hear. Could you quieten down a little please? MR. BARRY: And, Mr. Speaker, because we do not pe=it partisan politics ·played. in the most despicable fashion that we saw with respect to the St. John's synchrolift,bec;:ause we do not pe=it that to prejudice the people of St. John's, Mr. Speaker, that in no way lessens our concern for the people outside the city limits. And, Mr.

Speaker, you only have to look at our roads programme - if the hon. Minister of Highways (Mr. Brett) were here he would show you. Mr. Speaker, look at where the money ha~ gone for roads in this past year. And look,when we see the budget,where it will be going again this year. Mr. Speaker, look at where the water and sewer facilities are going,. HR. n!OHS: In Tory districts. MR. BARRY: Not in the city of St. John's, Mr. Speaker, not in the city of St. Jo .hn 's. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR .

B ARRY : And now I think we have a point being admitted here 1 that there is the occasionai Tory district outside of the city of St. John's. Well, fancy that! !~r. Speaker, we have, our Department of Fisheries - we have hundreds of millions of dollars every year going into the fishery in this •Province. · Where :is that being spent? Is that being spent in the city of St. John's? No, Mr. Speaker. It is being spent on the fishe=en o·f our Province wherever they may be found, whether it be urban or rural. Now, Mr. Speaker, the city of St.

John's has its problems as do other c.ommunities, and this government has a responsibility to try and deal with them. And 720 ~'] . ) .I '') . I ''I ''1 .I

t-1arch 10, 1981 Tape No. 256 IB-3 MR. B.ARRY: we have had some concerns raised in the last few weeks by constituents within the city and outside the city about the expansion of the St. John's city boundaries. And I have some serious concerns as the member representing the district of Mount Scio,some of whose constituents are now outside the city and will be taken in. I am concerned about the rate of increase in taxation that might occur , should the immediate e.xpansion of the boundary mean an immediate increase in taxation rate . And I believe, Mr . Speaker, that we wil: have 72 1 ~I I ~~ ~~ ~' ~1 I

!·1arch 10, 1981 Tape 257 PK - 1 HR. BARRY: to look at- if that is to "take place, I would be in favour of looking at some phasing in of any tax increases that might occur, and possibly look at this being tied to the services that the City of St. John's ends up providing to these new constituents. But these are the types of concerns, Mr. Speaker, that are present in the minds of the hard working, not parasites, the hard working people who live in Mount Scio district, some of whom are now outside of the City limits, but who may be taken in by an expansion of the St. John's boundaries. AN HON.

MEMBER: Taken in by the Liberals. MR. BARRY: We have, Mr. Speaker, the St. John's Constabulary being raised by the member opposite as an emergency, even though his colleague who got up and spoke did not refer to it once in passing. If it was believed to be such a great emergency on the other side of the House, how is it that the last member speaking did not refer to it once? Mr. Speaker, I would suggest because - AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. SPEAKER (BAIRD): Order, please! MR. BARRY: - what we see is an attempt on the part of members opposite to foment disturbances.

They would love to see disturbances created in the St. John's Constabulary. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. BARRY: Mr. Speaker, if you look at - I think all you have to do is look at the stories carried in the two papers of this Province,where we have- MR. THOMS: (Inaudible). MR. BARRY: In The Daily News headlines; 'Police Exe~utive resigns. Scare . tactics alleged: And 722 'I 'I

March 10, 1981 Tape 257 PK - 2 MR. BARRY: then we have in The Evening Telegram of the same day, today I think, 'Police Union Elects Interim Executive; and a reference to Mr. Hawco the new Interim President who, I believe,was in the galleries a few minutes ago, A reference to after they met ,' The Interim Executive meets with the Chief of Police and members of the Provincial Justice Department', the quote is , "There was a good feeling after the meeting." And, Mr. Speaker, why should there not be a good feeling in the St. John's Constabulary?

Sure there will be members,who for their own reasons are concerned about the modernization that is taking place in the force, but who, Mr. Speaker, can question the improvements that have been in the St. John's Constabulary, the improved training procedures, the improved facilities, Hr. Speaker, the improved - MR. THOMS: (Inaudible) be justified. l't!R. BARRY: - building that is gone in there for the Constabulary? MR. SPEAK~~ (Mr. BairCl) : Order, please! MR. THOMS: (Inaudible) be justified. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! While so~e degree of flexibility is allowed,I think we are getting a little bit noisy.

Every member has the right to be heard in silence. The Speaker has the responsibility for the decorum in the House , but so have the hon. members. MR. THOMS: Maybe the speaker could tone it down a bit. MR. SPEAKER: That also includes the member for Grand Bank. MR. BARRY: Mr . Speaker, I might say that I have to vehemently deny that there was any pressure of any kind placed by government,or anybody taking orders 723 .. , ''I 'I .. .. ,

March 10, 1981 Tape 257 PK - 3 MR. BARRY: from government,with respect to pressure being uut on the St. John's Constabulary. This government, Mr. - MR. THOMS: (Inaudible). MR. SPEAKER (Mr. Baird): Order, please! MR . Bl~Y: -Speaker, believes in strong unions. This government believes that the workers of this Province are better off if they have good, strong,responsible union executives,and we support the union movement, Mr. Speaker, and we support the Police Brotherhood, as a union that is looking after the best interests of the members of our Constabulary. But, Mr.

Speaker, the mere fact that the Executive ofthe Brotherhood resigns, does not necessarily mean that it is because of pressure from management or pressure from qovernment. There is, Mr. Speaker, another possibi~ity, it may be that the~e may be some pressure from the Brotherhood, from the rank and file membership. It may be that they object to our great respresentatives from Mainland forces corning down and purporting to set out - MR. THOMS: _ Have an inquiry then. What are you afraid of? MR. SPEAKER: MR. BARRY: improper Order, please! - Mr. Speaker, that there is something 724 ''I 'I ,, ''I

March 10, 1981 Tape No. 258 SD - 1 MR. L. BARRY: in a situation existing where there are some restraints placed by law, by regulation, on the conduct of police and on the manner in which police make their views known. Mr. Speaker, the difference between a police state and a non-police state is that in a non-police state the elected representatives of the people make policy. MR. THOUS : (Inaudible) were muzzled. MR. BARRY: And, Mr.

Speaker, there is a risk in, as we have seen, as I saw statements by some of the representatives of police forces on the mainland-I have seen statements where they got up and said, 'Well, if the politicians do not do such-and-such,the police are going to have to take matters into their own hands'. Now, Mr. Speaker, you are getting perilously close to your police state situation if that type - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh. MR. SPEAKER (Baird) : Order, please! MR. BARRY: - of intemperate,irresponsible statement is made by a member of a police union. Fortunately, Mr.

Speaker, we have not seen that type of statement by members of our Constabulary here. SOME HON. MEMBERE: Oh, oh! MR. BARRY: Yes, I think,by and large,our St. Johnts Constabulary are very responsible - SOME HON . MEMBERS: Hear, hear. MR. BARRY: - and I think,by and large, that the rank and file,and I would say that the bulk of the union executive ,recognize that there is a genuine attempt being made by this government to modernize the force, to see that the force is improved and to compliment the very excellent officers that we have down there now. MR. L.

THOMS: (.Inaudible) inquiry into that? 725 ''I .. , .. , ''I

llf March 10, 1981 Tape No. 258 so - 2 MR. L. BARRY: And, Mr. Speaker, some of the things that have been done might appear to be little things,. like removing the responsibility for monitoring parking meters. Well, for years this has been.something that police officers have felt to be a demeaning thing to have to do, to have to go and act as meter maids. And, Mr. Speaker, I think that was a great step forward,when government passed over this responsibility to the City of St. John's.

I think that when we provided courses, modern training courses, for our police officers, provided ways for them to go away to police college and to get better trained in modern police techniques, I think that that is something that the rank and file of the St. John's Constabulary can see and can appreciate. I think, Mr. Speaker, when new blood was brought into the Constabulary 1 despite- SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh. MR. SPEAKER (Baird) : Order, pleas'e! MR.

BARRY: - what I would say was objection by a minor, small percentage of the Constabulary, I would say that the new blood that is down there is now being accepted · in total as being a very genuine and excellent contribution to a better police force. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh. MR. BARRY: Now, Mr. Speaker, we have an honest situation where there is a new executive - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. BARRY: - appointed on an interim basis; Mr.

Speaker, and I think this is a genuine attempt by the Brotherhood to clear the air, I think new elections of a new executive whoever they are 1 whether the re-election of the former executive or whoever, that this is a good way and a very sensible way for the Police Brotherhood to clear the air. And I can tell them, Mr. Speaker, as a member of government, the St. John's Constabulary and the Brotherhood will have every bit of support that I can give them,and my colleauges in 726 ' I .. •·t

.... March 10, 1981 Tape No . 258 SD - 3 l-1R . L. BARRY: government can give thern,in seeing that the citizens of this city are ~ell policed and into seeing that the citizens of St. 'John's, Mr. Speaker, get what they want,which is a modern, efficient police force. N~.d if there are, Mr. Speaker, a few people down in the I Brotherhood who are becoming concerned, who may question whether they can live up to the new standards that are being set, I can only say, Mr.

Speaker, that government and management, I am sure, the police department,will act re- sponsively,. sensitively, but there will be a firm approach taken towards an ever-improving St. John's Constabulary. SOME HON. MEMBE~S: Oh, oh. MR. S:E'EAKER (Baird}: Order, please! MR. BARRY: Now, Mr. Speaker, if I could move on_.in this Addres ·s in Reply. Mr. Speaker, we have a certain leeway, I would like to - do you have any idea how much time I have ieft? MR. SPEAKER: The time is 4 : 50. MR• BA:RRY: Mr. SJ?eaker, one thing that concerns me 727 ~1 ''1 . I ~1 ~·1 ''] ~·1

,,._-'~-· March 10, 1981 Tap e 259 EC - 1 MR. BARRY: apart from the town/bayman division which is being promoted opposite, the attacks - MR. HANCOCK: (Inaudible). MR. BARRY: Speak to your colleague opposite, Mr. Speaker, the member for St. Mary's (Mr. Hancock) now is trying to pass off the fact that his colleague on his left has just labelled the people of St. John's as parasites. Now, is that your ~olicy? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (Baird) : Order, please! MR. BARRY: Is that your policy? If it is not your policy, get away from the group. Get away from them. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR.

SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! Hon. members, this is the second or third time this afternoon. The Chair has responsibility for decorum in the House, every member here has it. Although sometimes some members do invite debate from the other sides, I think the Chair has gone long enough this afternoon. The rules will be invoked and I would ask everybody's indulgence. The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy. MR. BARRY: Mr. Speaker, as has been seen time and time again in this House, when you start getting _ near the truth, that is when the uproar starts.

When you start making a point and it starts to cut too close to the bone, Mr. Speaker, that is when they start to interrupt and the great members of the democratic party opposite, instead of being able to make a point, can only try to shout down members who are making a point on this side, and time and time again we see them erupt. Well, their policy is clearly set out - and I compliment them again for making it so clear - the Liberal Party's policy is to downgrade and denegrate 728 ''i ' 'I ' 'I

March 10, 1981 Tape 259 EC - 2 MR. BARRY: and attack the people of the city of St. John's, and the label of 'parasite', Mr. Speaker, was clearly laid out and that haste be accepted as the policy of the party opposite. Now, Mr. Speaker, just as despicable a tactic, in my point of view, is the way in which members opposite have attemRted to create and encourage a division between the provincial government and the federal government. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. BARRY: Mr. Speaker, we have a government on this side of the House which is able to treat issues separately, and if we have an issue, Mr.

Speaker, upon which we disagree with the federal government, we are prepared to disagree with them on policy, but, Mr. Speaker, that in no way means that we cannot agree and compliment, even, our colleagues in Ottawa on another issue. And, Mr. Speaker, I would have to compliment my colleagues in Ottawa for the fact that they recogni~e that the people of the city of St.

John's are not parasites, for the fact that they recognize that they can put a great marine institute in our university and you will not have parasites working in it, you will have good Newfoundlanders who can supply the technology to compete with countries anywhere in the world. SOME HON. MEMBERS: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER (Baird): MR. BARRY: Hear, hear! Oh, oh! Order, please! Now, Mr. Speaker, I have to compliment our colleagues in Ottawa for seeing that this Arctic Vessel Institute comes to Memorial. It will be a great addition to the district of Mount Scio, Mr.

Speaker, and I have to th ,ank the federal Cabinet for this. But, Mr. Speaker, history will assess the degree to which han. members opposite have assisted 729 'I .. , .. ,

··~ March 1 0, 1981 Tape 259 EC - 3 MR . BARRY : government in their efforts to improve the lot of this Province. History will assess the degree to which members opposite have used their good offices to influence their colleagues in Ottawa. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. BARRY: History will assess the degree to which our representative in the federal Cabinet has served the interests of his Province in fighting, not the provincial go~ernment, but in fighting to see that this Province recei ve.s its fair share, Mr. Speaker , of what it should get in the division of tax dollars from Ottawa. And, Mr.

Speaker, I have a very real question, whether this Province has been receiving its fair share. MR. HOLLETT: (Inaudible). If the member for Burin - Placentia West (Mr. Hollett) believes that there are problems with the Marystown Shipyard, the way to deal with those is not by trying t.o supress a synchrolift for St. John~ s. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. BARRY: I know. I know, and I compliment him. The member for Grand Bank (Mr. Thoms), I believe, had a hand in it, but I did not see where the member for Burin - Placentia West did.

I am glad to see he accepts that the way for the Marystown Shipyard to receive 730 '') ''1 .., 'l I ~~

.March 10, 1981 Tape No. 260 GS - 1 MR. BARRY: recognition and assistance from the federal government isnot a beggar your neighbour policy of trying to keep a synchrolift away from St. John's, it would be by a better, more enlightened federal subsidy program for shipbuilding, even to get it back to where it was five or six years ago. And I see the .member opoosite nodding his head. MR. HOLLETT: (Inaudible) other programs. J'II...R. BARRY: And other programs, but positive programs not negative, beggar thy neighbour programs' that I am sure the member from Carbonear (Mr.

Moores) would support with his view that the people of St. John's are parasites, but I would ask members opposite to be a little more positive than that and I hope that we will be able to see federal members being a little more positive when they make decisions that affect this Province. I was not too proud, Mr. Speaker, as a Newfoundlander, I was not too proud as a Newfoundlander to see the politics that was played with the St. John's synchrolift; and I am not talking as a PC either, I am talking as a Newfoundlander. Well, Mr.

Speaker, there are many issues that I could discuss but we are going to have time in other debates to mention these. I would just like to deal with one issue that the member for Carbonear just sort of threw out when he talked about a declining economy in this Province. ~r. Speaker, does anybody know what is happening in this Province? Do members opposite look at any statistics? MR. HANCOCK: happening. .MR. BARRY: People out there know what is Mx. Speaker, the people out there know that

whereas just about every other province in Canada is having negative growth,that this Province 731 .. , ''1 'l

March 10, 1981 Tape No. 260 GS - 2 MR. BARRY: this year is having a positive growth, a positive growth in the economy at a time when the rest of Canada is having a negative growth. Mr. Speaker, it is almost unbelievable. SOME HON. l1EMBERS: MR. BARRY: MR. MARSHALL: .MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Oh, oh! If somebody had said - A point of order , Mr. Speaker. A point of order the hon. the Mr.

Speaker, the hon. minister is speaking in the Address in Reply and,Your Honour, the Assistant Deputy Speaker, has already called to order the House for the interruptions, I have to point out that the bon. member for Grand Bank (Mr. Thorns) is persisting in interrupting. The hon. minister is entitled to be heard in silence and not to be interrupted. What the bon. member is doing is he is usurping the order of this House, Mx.

Speaker, and if he continues to do it - he might be amused by his cornrnents 1 but the people in this House are entitled to speak during their allotted time without interruption of this nature, and if the bon. member insists on perpetrating disorder in the House there is only one remedy, Mr. Speaker, which will have to be taken. MR. SPEAKER: I have to agree that there is a valid point of order here. I have from time to time called upon all hon. members to adhere to the rules of the House and, indeed, it states very clearly that each hon. member should be heard in silence.

The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy has about half a minute. M-~· BARRY: Well, Mr. Speaker, I was just given notice of a minute and a half a minute was taken up in trying to deal with the maw-mouth for Grand Bank - 732 ... 'I ''I ••

March 10, 1981 SOME HON. MEMBERS: ~R. SPEAKER (Butt) : MR. BARRY: Tape No. 260 GS - 3 Oh, oh! Order, please! - and I have had long experience with the member for Grand Bank (Mr. Thorns) and, unfortunately - MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. THOMS: Who is provoking who now? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. minister has to refer to hon. members of the Hou::;e by the district they represent. MR. BARRY: Bank. SOME HON. MEHBERS: M_R.. BARRY: that back. I retract - sm.m HON. MEMBERS : MR. BARRY: MR. TEOMS: MR. BARRY: The hon. maw-mouth from Grand Oh, oh! I am sorry, Mr. Speaker, I take Oh, oh! - I retract, Mr. Speaker, I retract.

Challenging the Chair! What I was going to say was that the member for Grand Bank, like a number of other members opposite, the only way that he can make a point is to try and drown out points being made on this side of the House, and he has not changed very much than when I saw him in the mock - SOl1E HON. MEMBERS : MR. BARRY: . MR. MOORES : MR. BARRY: MR. SPEAKER: ~.R. BARRY: MR. SPEAKER: Oh, oh! - the mock parliaments - Point of order • - at the university, r•r. Speaker - Order, please! A point of order. - and we would have to say he is - Order, please! A point of order, the hon. member for Carbonear. M_R..

MOORES: expired, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: expired. The hon. minister's time has The hon. minister's time has 733 .. , 'I 'I

March 10, 1981 MR. BAR.~Y: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : Mountains. MR. WAR.JU:N: Tape No. 260 Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Hear, hear! GS - 4 The hon. member for Torngat Mr. Speaker, having ~arl the opportunity to follow the Minister of Mines and Energy (Mr. Barry) and listening to him speaking for the last half an hour,I can understand that he has one ambition in mind, to take over from the Premier of the Province.

However, I assure the hon. minister that he will not take over as Premier of this Province because as long as I am a Liberal I will attack this government and all of us on this side will attack this government and when the next election is called we will have conquered. Well, M.r. Speaker - AN HON. MEr•'I.BER: You will \vhat? MR. WARREN: - we will conquer. We will conquer the government of this Province. Now, Mr. Speaker, I notice that the Premier is back in his seat and the Minister of Mines and Energy has just left. He used mostly for his topic "Government has the interest of the Province". Now, Mr.

Speaker, in my few remarks I am going to give some illus­ trations and God help the people of this Province if the government has the Province at heart. Well, Mr. Speaker, on page one in the Throne Speech it says the first concern or the first of the four components that this government has declared is "An honest and efficient political system". Now, Mr. Speaker, if that is not misleading the people of this Province I would like to know what is. Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Fisheries 734 . '1 'I

March 10, 1981 Tape 261 EC - 1 MR. WARREN: (Mr. Morgan) was condemned by the Public Accounts Committee of this Province and when he appeared in the House, the Premier got up and said it was a matter of opinion sort of thing. Now, he contravened the Public Tendering Act and he was condemned by the P.A.C., but naturally, it was only a misunderstanding. Now, that is what you would call an honest and efficient government. Now, Mr.

Speaker, in the Auditor General's report that carne down - I say one thing, that this government does have real good pilots, real good aircraft pilots, because they can drive two aircraft at the same time. Now that is efficient government· That is what you would call an efficient government. Mr. Speaker, with all due respect to the Throne Speech debate and what was said in the Throne Speech, I do not see anything honest and efficient about the political system that this government is giving to Newfoundland. Now, Mr.

Speaker, what about the thousands and thousands of dollars that was spent for a P.C. political poll in this Province? Thousands and thousands of dollars that belonged to the people of this Province were spent to determine if the P.C.s were going to win the next election. MR • HOLLETT : _ • And it was never paid back • MR. WARREN: And it was never paid back, as far as we know. The people of this Province are still paying for that. Mr. Speaker, it is ridiculous when His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor, in a Throne Speech_ has to read that we have an honest and efficient political system, because, Mr.

Speaker, it is further from the truth than anything could be. 735 ' I ' 1 ' I

March 10, 1981 Tape 261 EC - 2 MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I believe that federal/provincial relations at this time in respect of the federal government at Ottawa and the provincial government here in the Province,is at an all-time low. Now, whether it is the federal government's fault or whether it is the provincial government's fault, I do not know, and furthermore, I do not care. What I am concerned about is the people that it is affecting. If the Premier of the Province - I am using the word 'if' - if he is on an ego trip, that 'What I say is right and nothing else', well, then he is at fault. If Mr.

Rompkey or Mr. Trudeau is on the same trip, well, they are at fault. But at the present time, I say both of them are at fault . The Premier of this Province is just as much at fault as Mr. Rompkey or Mr. Trudeau. MR. STAGG: Not true. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, it is true. In fact, Mr. Speaker, before I go any further - I was going to wait until the end of it, but I am compelled to read this poem. It is called If the Shoe Fits. I have to use names here in the poem but those names, I am sure, will fit.

"Carter and Morgan pride themselves on saying what is on their mind,/No matter if their comments are caustic or unkind,/ They feel they have a perfect right to probe and analyse,/and call it 'being honest' when they cut folks down to size./Stagg and Barry are ready to shoot a well-aimed dart,/Right through somebody's ego, straight into someone's heart,/And yet these are the very folks who go into a spin,/When they are the ones elected to take it on the chin./The truth becomes a weapon that carries too much clout,/And criticism sometimes they would rather do without,/So here is a tip for you four lads who like to speak your mind,/No matter if your comments are caustic or unkind,/Think twice before you criticize, hold back that little dart,/Before it has a chance to sink into someone's heart. 736

March 10, 1981 Tape 261 EC - 3 MR . ~'11\RREN: /Remember it is just possible the tide may tu ·rn some day ,/And you could be the target of the mean things people say,/But if you learn to curb your tongue your friends will like you more,/And you will be a nicer person than you ever were before . " 1-!r. Speaker, that is for tho se four gentlemen who , lofheneve r 737 ~1 ~ ,., "I "1

~:J March 10, 1981 Tape No. 262 IB-1 MR. WARREN: a member on this side is up to speak they always try to give unjust criticism. So, Mr. Speaker, if the member for Stephenville (Mr. Stagg) will stay quiet for the next twenty-five minutes,probably I will make it through. Now, Mr. Speaker, yesterday the member for St. John's West (Mr. Barrett) spoke about the fire tug for St. John's and he is blaming it on the federal govern­ IDP"t, not having a fire tug for St. John's. I agree also, Mr. Speaker, that a fire tug is as important to St.

John's as air transportation is to Labrador, as the food prices are to Labrador, as the fishery is to Labrador. So it is not all the federal government's fault, it is the provincial government as well as the federal government. And ,.,hen the federal and the provincial governments come to task with each other, then I think we will have a better Province in which to live. Mr.

Speaker, I asked the Premier today some serious questions concerning the Coastal Labrador agreement and I wish to go on record now as saying that if for any reason the financial figures are changed in this agreement, as the old saying goes, "Rob Peter to pay Paul", I will be the first member in this House to get up and say, if it is done by the federal government, to get up and say, 'No, it is not fair'.

If there is a Labrador DREE Agreement and if there is a complete figure realized 1 then it should be there for the fisheries, it should be there for health, it should be there for transportation and everything else but not to just take it out for the sake of political reasons. And if this ever happens with any one of those agreernents,I will be the first to stand up in this House and fight against the federal government if they are ?lanning to do so.

And,likewise,I will also fight against this government if they decide to change their tactics for a better part of this Province as they have done today, a·s the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) has done today in an announcement about the synchrolift 738 .. , .. , ' 'I ' "j

March 10, 1981 Tape No. 262 IB-2 MR. WARREN: for St. John's. N0\'1 1 to just give you an example! Here is $10 million, between $6 million and $10 million that is going to be okayed for the synchrolift in St. John's, guaranteed loan. Only just three weeks ago the Torngat fishermen flew up, came in and met with members of the Cabinet and asked for a guaranteed loan to help them buy a shrimp dragger and it was much less than $6 million,but the Cabinet turned it down. MR. HOLLETT: Why? MR. WARREN: Yes, why~ I do not know why. Why?

Because they could not afford to give $2 or $3 million to our crew up in Northern Labrador who wanted to prosecute the shrimp fishery and at the same time stay in bed with Fishery Products and at the same time have a synchrolift for St. John's. That is the reason why. AN HON. MEMBER: MR. WARREN: AN HON. MEMBER: MR. WARREN: Where is their office? Where is their office; In Halifax. Why is it in Halifax? You know all the answers, all the reasons. MR. HOLLETT: M..'R.. WARREN: MR. HOLLETT: Basin. MR. WARREN: St. John's Harbour. MR. HOLLETT: either. MR. WARREN: Where are the shrimp? Where are the shrimp to? Yes.

They are not in Bedford The shrimp are not down here in They are not in Bedford Basin Mr. Speaker, this government has advocated time and time and time again 1 jobs for Newfoundlanders first. I will just give you an example now. The general manager who was administering the drug subsidy programme for this government,is a New Brunswicker and stationed in New Brunswick. MR. THOMS: No, that is not true! MR . WARREN: That is right. The general manager 739 ''I ''I ''I

March 10, 1981 Tape No. 262 IB-3 MR. WARREN: who is administe.ring the drug subsidy programme of the Department of Health is stationed in New Brunswick and is a New Brunswicker. MR. THOMS: MR. WARREN: for Newfoundlanders first. MR. HANCOCK: MR. WARREN: MR. HANCOCK: MR. WARREN: I cannot believe that. Now, that is what they call jobs Now, Mr. Speaker - Stationed in New Brunswick? ~h yes, stationed in New Brunswick. Thenwhy are they objecting (inaudible)? Oh, I do not know. You know, this is what I do not understand. This government is so flip-floppsy, eh? Now, Mr. Speaker, this government, if I can remember correctly, I do not know if the Pre