Volume XL Wednesday Province of Newfoundland FORTIETH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND Fourth · Session VERBATIM REPORT (Hansard} Speaker: Honourable P.]. McNicholas Number 56 15 June 1988

The House met at 2:00 p.m . MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas) : Order, please! Ml~. K. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPfr:\KER: The hon. trw rnewb f.! ln f Oln Stephenville. MR. I<. AYI.WAIW: fhank you, Mr. Hperlker. l have an i.nvi.La"l:""Lon to ·l·.hc;! ·Lf=!nlh annive1nsar·y of the StephE!I1VilJ.e Fes t.i.val, ulhich is be i.ng celebrated this Summer, going around to all rnembGrs of the hon. Hous .e . It is a gala te•nth anniversary season~ and t would hope as many han . members as possible will make an attempt to ·attend the festiual this Summer.

They haue a fine number of plays being put forward, and we are looking forward to hauing a uery successful season out that way . The festival run s from 1 July to 31 July, and the of fici al opening will be 15 J1~ly . Brochures haue been se nt to all mem bers of the House of Asse mbly, so I J.ook forward to seei ng as many members as poss.lbl.e. If you can make ·U:, we would really appreciate seeing you . The plays b0 i.ng offer-r:~d w i.l.J. be, again, I am sure, of great tal ent. I thank you, Mr' . Spe.::~.k P. r'. SOME HON . MEMB~RS : rleaJn 1 hear! MR. SIMMS : Mr. Spec::~.ker· . MR. SPEAKER: The hon . thE!

Pr·esidE!nt of the Council . MR. SIMMS: L3030 J1Jnr:1 15, 19B8 Vol. XL Mr. SpeakE!r, for members on t.h:Ls s.ide of th~::~ House may I say that many of us over here were attendi.ng the StephenviJ.le Fl':!Stival t.uhen thE! han. TnE!rnber was ·i.n d l~pers, I dar·e sa y, many, many years ago, at1d have continued to be ad :.i.ue parti.c:i.pani: s in the Stephenville Festival. Indeed, i:h i.s gou ~ r·nu1 e nl: h~s been an active sup porter of the St ephenville f0si:.i .va 'l, f.i.nant La11 .y and otherwise, and will continue to do so .

WC:! d<: cc -~pi ·. l:ht ~ hen . member' s inui tation, being the me!mber fr om the c:Li .str ·i.c{ · .. l i:ll'rl nol : qu ""Lte SIJre of the date of the hon . member' s lAH~ d d .i. l'l g . MR. K . AYLWARD : July 29. MR. SIMMS: July 29. So tht~ hon. member 11..1ill probably be on his honeymoon for a portion of the Stephenville Festival, and that., indeed, wj_J.l be uery sad. MR. LUSH: Mr . Speaker . MR. SPEAK~R: The han. the ITlE!ITlbE!r for' Bonavista NorLh. f"' R . L U !:>I I : Mr. Speaker, I wouJ.d li .ke to ask ,,.,lJ hon.

Jfi8HJbr~i~s, ·1:.1-n~ough yo•n' Your Honour, to join ud.th ITlE! in E:~ x pi" e ~; s i. n g co mrn end a l i. on s and congratulations to two people from the dJs I:Jn.i.ci: of Bonavtsta North who recently received significant ~1.1.1ar·rls for outs l:anding perforrnancE!S in t.hedr specific Fields of endeavour. In the first instance, I refE!r l:o Doctor Yong Kee Jeon, Superintendent of the BrookfieJ.d Hospital in the district of Bonauista North, who was recent.J.y No. 56 R3030

chosen as the Family Physician of the Year for all of Cansda. SOMt HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. LUSH : When one considers the hundreds of doctors IAJho servE:~ fr•om Br·iti sh Columbia to Newfoundland, one realizes the s i.gnif-Lcance of th i.s awal"d, and in all its history, Uris is the first time this a!AJar·d has evE!r bE•E!n rE!CE!ived by a NewfoundJ.and physician. Thus, the reward reprE:,sents not only a timE! of pride and joy for Dr. Jean and his famiJ.y but for all NetAJfoundlRnd. ThE! second OIJtslancl"ing achieVE!ment, t.!Jr. Speaker, was that of Miss Diane Pr .LtchcU..: of Gamba.

Mjss Pritchett was the first prize tAli rii'IE:1r al: lhE:' Apd.l. JO con-1:0. s 1.: for· young opera singers held in Clri.cago. SorJtE HON. MEM~ i': RS : Hear, hear! MR. SIMMONS : About 250 people, r.~gcd <-dghleen to thirty-five entered this contest. This par·U .c11l.ar contest is desigm1d l:o providE! a showcase for young sing<~r·s. As a reslJlt., l.:he proud winner will now be attending a six-week seminar in Italy sponsored by the Bel Canto Foundation.

This Foundation was formed in 1976 to hE!lp young opera singers develop their careers, through providing the avenue to perform publicly - sponsoring of seminars and the pro vision of scholarships to selected candidates .

Previous award winners include Ka I" E>.rl Hoff s tad t, IAJho hr.1 s j:H:! l"f o I'I'IIE:'d lAd th Placido Domingo and wi 1:.h compan i.e:1s Uwo11ghoul: Eut'OFH:1, dnd L.3031 June lS, 1988 Vol XL Mark Doss who became the second A me r · i. c a n e lH~ r· to 1.~d. n lh E~ V e r· d i International Competition in Italy and is now a performer at New York City Opera. l am su;"E! all han. members would want to co ng ra tul ate and c ornrnE! nd both Or. Jeon and M·iss PritchE!tt on their outstanding achievements and prE!stigious a\AJar·ds and 1/Jish them continUE!d SUCCE!SS.

ThE!Y havE~ earnE:H:I honour and dis tinction For themseJ.ves and for our Province . Thank you. Mr . Sp(->.aker· . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER : ·rhe hon . the Pr <'!S idE !nl: o r:: t.h E~ CounciJ.. MR . SIMMS: Mi". :,pei'.lko.r ·. th ·i.s i.s L:hE! ki.nd of thing that I believe would be an .i.nnouc11'. i.ve chang(~ Lo th ·i.s Ho1.1Sf~ of Assembly, if we were to considE!r', p8r'ha.ps. pr·ov'i.d i ng for· some t:i .IIIE! to allow members to get up and rilc'lki:!

VE:!I"Y .i.rnpo;n1 ·.,•1nL COIT\InE!nts and statements, when otherlAliSE! thE!Y IJJOI .Ild no 1: gE~I: UH'! opport.urd ty throughout the day. May I again on bd1aJf of goVE!rnlriE!nt ext:end, in respon se to the hon. meHnber 1 s commendations to Dr. Jeon and to Diane Pritchet .t, governrnent 1 s best w:lshes and congratulations on two very outstanding achievements. I noticed with great interest thE! membE:'r For Bonavis ta North 1 s attempt to pronounce alJ. the Italian names in his dissertation.

I did not get a chance to jot them down, but I shaJ.l rE!ad Hansard with great i.nh,,r ·est l.:o see hotAJ .i.t comes 01.1t. NGV('!i"l:hC:<I.E:~SS' M V> I ' ~:)PE'd.kE:1i", it No . 56 R3031

certainly goes to show that when Newfoundlanders, or people who reside in Newfoundland put their minds to it, they can achieve some rnonume:~ntal thtngs. In these cases. Dr. Jean and Diana Pritchett have done exactly that and we cornrnE!nd them on their achievements . ~~e f.IJ"e very pro 1.1d of ·them. SOME HON. MEMBERS : He:~ar. hear! ··-- MR . SPfAKfR: ------Oi"dc,~J", pl.E:'a~;o! B e For· e cr.t l.l. j. n g f o i" ~it at €~ me n l: s by Ministers, I 1.uoul.d like to welcomE! l: o t h e ~·i p e ~11< e i" 1 s g d 11 e r y M r· . J o h n McLennan, a former mernbE!r of this House. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear. hear!

MR. SPEAKER : I would also likE! to WE!lcome 102 Grade V students with their teachE!rs. Mrs. Moores. Mrs. Coombs, Miss Symonds and Mrs. Godwin, from Macdonald Drive E\ernentary School, St. John's. SOME HON. MEMBERS: HE:~ar. hE:~ar I Statements by Ministers MR. MATTI·! Ek~S : Min. Spc-:1a k er. MR. SPEAKFR: The han. Lhe Minister of Career Development and Advanced Studies. MR . MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr·. Speak,~r . I arn announCE! L3032 VE!ry the pleased approval June 15, 1988 today L:o of another Vol XL 185 projects under the government's Private Sector Em ploymen t Program.

These projects in volve a provincial contribution of $395,9 12 employing 170 employees, and an additional $176,340 employing 171 students, for a total contribution of $572 1 2':l2 c r ~attng an additi onal 341 jobs throughout our Provinc e . cWl pleased to program has on ce l?een extre me ly supported widely Mr. Speak~~r~ I advise that this aga:i.n r·.h i.s y0ar well received a11d by U10 p r i. IJ r.1 t:~ St ~r:i :oin. We have received mor e than 1, 700 appl. i.cat.i.ons ·l·o elatE:~. Unfortunately, we will not be able i:o d:;si.si: ctJl of l:he applicants.

The balance of program funds wiJ.1 b c E:1 x h au s L: o d t.ui t h .i. n a U..J E:! E:~ k or· s o I and final rE!COmiTlE!ndations are being prepared now by the Interdepartmental Committee which is reviewing them. Mr . SpE!aker, once 341 jobs undE:~J" +:.he Employment Program. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear. hear! MR. DECKER : Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: again, another Private Sector n~i1on~-the lfiE:~rnber for· the Strait of Belle Isle. Ml~. DECKER : Mr·.

Speaker. thE! kE!Y SE !ntenCE! in l: h 0. lfl i. n L s i: e r· ' ~~ s t R tern c,~ n i: :i s 'unfortunately, we will not be able i:o ass.isi: aJl of the applicants 1 • Of courSE!. he wi11 not be able to assist al.l the applicants I bE!Cause thE!rE! ar'E! somewhere between 20,000 and 30 1 000 people in Hds ProvinCE! who do not haVE! a job today. That is why he cannot assist alJ. ·the No. 56 R3032

applicants, nor should he be (:~ x p e c b:~ d i: o i-l s s .i. s t a l. J. t h e applicants. His job, and the go,Jei"l1lnEHll.: 1 s job, i.s l:o Ct'C~ai:e dn economy 11.1here free enterprise can do 11.1hat i.t IAJi:"lS dc,~s LgnE!d -1-.o do, namely, employ our people, Mr . 5pC:~i~ker. ThE! pr·oblPin i.s not wlth l:h Ls program, this is simply a stop-gap me,~ as u re, l":. hE:~ prob 1 em .l s that i:hc,~ economy has been brought to its knees by this government, which does not know how to make free enterprise 1..uork, Mr. Speaker .

The ministe~ should not be boasting, the minister should try to sneak this in after the House is closed, 1 ike they do 11.1-l t h other things , so t hat no o n E! wi 11 hear about it . This is simply a band-aid to lry to revive an economy which they have crucified, Mr. Speaker . It is a disgrace, that is what it is, and the:~ wi.nisler sho111d be asha1ned to bdng it in. Oral Questions MR. SPEAKER : The han. t~e member for Fogo . MR. TULI<: Mr. Speaker, I have:~ a quest Lon for· the Minister of Labour (Mr. Blanchard), Luho was ln hi.s seat a minute ago.

I seem to have a prob1ern getting rni.nisU>.rs these days, but here he comes. Yesterday, the minister will recall, in answer to a ques lion he stated that: 11 Mr. Buffett 11 - referring lo the chairman of the Workers 1 Compensation Appeal Tribunal- has infor·rne:~d rne l:hat l1e has not acted in any casE!, ej_ther for c,~mployE!Y'S, EI~CO "i.ncl.uded, or· employees. He has not taken any cases since he has bec;!n Chairmi:"'n L3033 June lS, 1988 Vol XL of the Board. I have a letter finom h.i.m ... 11 I IIJonder· wotl'ld t:hE! minister table that letter? MR.

SPEAKER : r h e h o n . l: h e Jltl:i. n i. s t o r of 1... a b o u r . MR. BLANCHARD: Mr. Speake-r-~ I did in fact say 'I had d l.ei..:l:C::!in from Mr. Bu ·ff<>.t:t to that effect. I told the hon. member that it was being examined. When I have the 'i.nfor·maLion i.n place - I have Y€~t to speak with Mr. BuffE!tt, Min. Speaker; I hope to do it per·haps tomorrow morning - I IAdlJ rE!Spond to the hon. member further then. MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: ~ supple111entary, th(:~ hon . thE~ member for Fogo. MR. TLJLK: Mr.

Speaker, the hon. gE!ntlE:~rnan h a s L h F.! l 0.1". 1'. c r , s o IAJ h y d o e' s h E! n o 1.: want to table it at this point? ~\lh .:ti· . h~s Lhdl·. gol: to do IAdth any further investigation that he m·i.ghl : be C:.:li'TY i.ng 011 l'lOIAJ? 1 IAJOUld ask the hon. gentlE:~rnan to reconsldcr and Table that letter that hE! has from Mr. Buffett? What i.s he l:ry .i.ng to do t..ui .l:h it? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the MinistE!r of Labour . MR. BLANCHARD: No, Mr. Speaker, I \)rilJ. not table that letter now. There is clarification needed in .the letter, Mr .

Speaker, and I have told the 1·1on. member·-· t:h"is is about the third time - that I want to talk to Mr. BuFfE!l:t, gE:•l: some clarification of the letter, make su1nc~ of IAJhai·. he;! 'i.s saying in thE! lettE!r, and I will table it then or gi.ve htm information then. No. 56 R3033

MR. TULK : Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER : A final supplementary, the hon . the member for Fogo. Ml~. TULK : Mr. Speaker, the ministE!r yesterday slal:ed t:hat: hE! had this lc~tter. The letter is therE!. The IAJOr'ds of M;n. StJFFeU:. iH'E:1 thE1re. We pointed out to the minister y e s t E! r d a y tAl h a i: h i:~ d g o n e o n . N OlAJ , Mr. Speake1n, I ask the minister, oncc,1 again, tAJhy i.1· . .i.s i'.hr.1'L: h('' i.s refusing to table that letter from Min. RufFei ::1·.? Is l:h(:•Jn(:! ~;omot.h ··ing j 11 ·!-:here that he wants hidden? MR . SIJI•iMS : A point of order, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: OrdE1r, please!

A point of order, the han . t.hc~ President of the Council. MR. SIMMS: rll r . S pea k E! r , I do not n e e d to remind you, but obviously we neE!d to remind thE! hon. the member for Fogo, this is his second supplernenta1ny qUE!Stion, all on the same matter , asking the very satnf:' thing. And it is clearly out: of order', as Beauchosne says you cannot ask the samE! question over aga:Ln. If you <'1re di .ssatisfiE!d with the answer. put it on the Ord E!r f>apr:'r For Thursday c:'lfl::ernoon . You cannot multiply i·.he:' quc,1sti .on i.n any IAJalj, shr'lpC:! o;n 'form jf it is the same.

So, if he has o Uwr ques l i.ons l (~ L h.i .111 g0 L on IA.dth it. MR . TULK : Mr. Speaker, to t·.hai:: po.i .ni:. of order. MR . SPEAKER: L3034 JunE:1 lS, 1988 Vol XL To that potnl: of ordE!r, the hon. the member for Fogo. MR. TULK : The hon. gentleman is quite wr'ong on the Fi.rs ·t question, and Your Honour obviously knolAJS he is quitE! wrong ot:hc~rwi. s r:1 he t.oJouJ.d rule me out of order anyway. The han. genl.:lernan ·i.s qtJ:ile wrong. The first question j.s, Will hE! tablE! .i. 1:? r he n ex '1: que s L :i. on i. s , ~~ h y will he not table it?

And the l:h .i;nd qttOS l"'ion .i.:> i':IT.is, What "i.S hE! trying to hide? Is there sotnei:h .i.ng .i.n l:hai: let"i:E!r i::ha l: h(:! t.uants to hide? MR. BLANCHARD : (.) b :; o l11 1:1::! l. y no l·. h i. n g 1-. o b P lr i. d d f~ n , Mr . SpE!ak er! SOME HON. MEMBERS ~ Hear-, h~1a.r! MR. SPEAKER : OrdE!r, please! To that point of or'dE•r, thE! thrE!e questions that Lhe hon. member asked arE! very simiJ.ar, but. I w: i.11 allow that final question. MR. TULK : My supplementary, Mr . Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: Th t:.~ han. tl'lC:! tne111br:1r F'o1n Fogo has asked that final question. MR.

TULK : f1r'A you go.ing l:o f,111SlAJer it? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Labour . MR . BLANCHARD: Al:>:;o J.utC:1ly noth i.ng Mr. Speaker. All L h c~ h o n . 111 o. rn b e r' i. s to bt'! hiddc,1n, I have said to the 1~~l :.l:E!r "i.s somewhat unclear in T '" m p 1 a n n .i. n g :·. o s i. l:: gentleman who wrotE! some aspects . d Ol.oJn IAJi t h t: hE! th e letter to No . :)6 R3034-

get some further clarification. T h E! r e i s a b s o 1 u t e l. y n o t h t n g 1: o hide. I told hirn in the normal, standard manner, I tJ.rLJ.l Jr1ak0. i".he irl'forrnation available to him when .it i.s clal":i.fJE:~d. MR. K. AYU'IlAfW: Mr . Speaker . MR . SPEAKER : The hon. the mE!mber for Stephenvll.le . MR. K. AYLWr:lRD : Thank you, Mr. Speaker . I have a question for the Minister of Environment (Mr. Russell) who yesterday came into the House with the answer to a question that I had asked weeks ago concerning PCBs storage in Stephenville and around the Province.

Now, tArith reference to t.hat. answer which he gave m~' yesterday, where l:hE! mi.ni.slr:~r i.ndi.cf.IU:'d l::hdl an an~a of PCB contaminated floor· in Bu'i l.d .i.ng 850 in SI ·.Gphen•JJl.lE! tJ.Jas removed, could he tell us what r: on f 1.1 ~;,i, on s t .i.l.l P. x i. s 1: s i:H' o' 1 n d U1 t:! removal of this contaminated ma i: e r J a J.? 110. i. n d j_ c a I 8 s i. n hi.·; response to me that there is some confus ·i.on o•JC:~i" IAJhei:hei" or· no 1: l:hr~ clean-up was completed as req•1i.rf~d, <'lnd hE! i'llso .i.ndi.r:al:0.s tha ·t thee~ Department of Environment federally tJJere to be rf~spons'.'i.ble.

Could he tell us what confusion there has been, or has it been resolved? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Lands. MR. RUSSELL: Mr. Speaker, I am not sure exactly tJJhat t.he confus"i.on IAJas on t:he clean-up, but I pr·orniSE! to get the information for the han. member by U035 June 15, 1988 Vol XL tomorrow, if at all possible . MR. K. AYLWARD: (.) Sllppl.ernentary, Mr. Speaker . rJ! R . S P E A K E R : A supplementary, the hon. thE• rn o rn b r-~ r· f o r· ~) 1.: e p h e n v .i_ l J. e . MR. K.

AYLWARD : Could the minLster lE!l1 us if h'i.s departmE!nt has as surnE!d any of thE! r·espons.ibi.li.ty fa;~ the clean- --up or· the rnoni toring of the clE!an -up, or 1: o s E~ e t. hal l: he c l. e C\ n-up t..ua s carried out to specifications to IJJhich -Lt should have bE:H'!n carr:i.ed out for the Pl"ovj.ncE!, and certainly For the people of the area? He indicates that there was confus·i.on thcc~re and l:hat the fina.l decision was rE!Sting with thE! fed erR l governrnc,~nt. Could he tE!ll us if his department 1 s officials have checked that out? MR. ·sPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Lands.

MR. RUSSELL: Mi". ~)pnakl~i~, 'f. do noi: knoiAJ .if thr: 'y have chE:~ckE:'d it out rC"!Cently. I 1.1 n d C r· S l:i:\ n d I: h ~\ 1·. 0 f f j_ C iF.\ J. S f I" 0 lfl 1: hE! department die! do some monitoring ·i,n r:o-operr.l{ ·. i.on tJJi .th l:he Environment Canada people. I do not k n OI.•J IJJh r,~ n l-: h (~ rna s t r' e c E! n 1: monitoring took place, but I tJJ'il1 gr-:!'1: a:J.l that Jnforrnf.ll:i.on for· thE! han. mmnber tomorrow. MR. K. AYLWARD : A supplemr:~nt .ary, Mr. SpeakE!r . MR. SPEAKER: A fi.nal supplementary, the ·han. the member for Stephenville. MR. K.

AYLWARD: Could I:: he 111i ni. s ter U! ll. us if it is part of his rE!Spons:i.b:il:it:y to dwck :into a matter such ;~s th"i.s? No. 56 R3035

Do they just: leave-) i.t IAJ'i.lh UHo~ federal Department of Environment or do Hwy also h~::~lp monitor' and check into these very important situations, especially the one that he gave me in his answer yesterday, which I assumed they h~d already done? MR. SPEAKER : The hon . the Minister of Environment and Lands . MR. RUSSELL : As I under·stand it, Mr . SpE!aker, this particuJ.Clr inc ident o;~ case to which the hon. member refer s lAJClS of basically lhe Environment r·c~;ponsibJl. "'i t-y Canada.

Somei:i111es, on <'In or:ca~·; .i.on such ;:-1 ~; this, we co-operate with them even i f j_ t .i s t h n J ;~ j u r i. s d .i r. 1: i. o n • d n d in some cases we do some mon .L l:or i.ng afi:e;n the fa.c 1· .. NotAJ, in lhi .s parU .ctt.lar Cr'lse '[ c1Hl not surE~ if we we reo~ required to follow up in an area that may have bE! E:Ht in a fed e r' a l j uri s d i cU. on . MR. DECKER : Mr . Speake:~r . MR. SPEAKER : The han . the member For the Strait of Bell Isle . MR. DECKER : Mr.

Speaker, my question is also for the Minister of Environment and Lands, who was so nonchalant about those PCBs, as if iL were candy he was talking about . ThE! minister is no doubt at.11are of l:he study i:ha l t..~Ja.s dorw by t·.l-w BrH:: group on the one r~dar site near S t . (.)nth on y IAJ h 8 r c"~ l: e s 1: i. n g tMi:\ s don P. to determjne the level of the PCBs, dncl Uvll .: s:i.1 :o L\Ji:l~; s.impl.y bUinied with gravel, wJ.th a rf:!COrnmco~ndr.lLi .on l:hr.d: a f c"~tAJ mor•f;! Joads of gravel be added in ~he L303G June 15, 1988 Vol XL Spr:lng.

Doc,~s Uw tni .n-.i.stN' appt~oue of this method of disposing of PCBs, simply coUC'!ring thtHn up with ground and walking away and 1E~aving them? MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Minister of Environment and Lands . MR. RUSSELL : Mr . Sp e:~.:~kC' !r , so!fle l:"iJII P ago, I think the hon . ffiE!rnbE:!r Fo1~ Fod:urw ... Ht~rmJUtge (Mr. Si .mHton

s) i:r· i.e d t.o s·care half thE! peopl E! in lhE! Pi"ovJnce i·.o dE:!(li :h by say .. i.ng Lh t:!t~e t..uas a situa tion in that aree1 tha t tAJd~ ; go Lng i-.o co s'\: ~; J rn.i .l l i.o n l:o clE!an up. SubseqUE!l'll:ly. Ml" . :lp c r'lke;~ . r m<'td e a s l:ai:emen l about .: that. There was a rE!port done and a si·t.tdy done, and the municipal council in St . Anthony has bE:'E!n b r j_ e f f~ d o n .i. 1: <'I J. 1 , 1:. h 8 y lvw E! b c;! e n given copies of l:he report, and tAlE! :i.ntend t·:o spend someti'l'i .ng l:.i.I<E ! $2SOO this YE!ar'.

The council is well informed on it and agrees with what we are doing therE!. and there is no problem . MR. DECKER: A supplementary, Mr . Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: A suppl.(~mentary. member for the Isle . MR. DECKER : l: hi'::~ Strait hon . of thE! BE!llE! Is the minister aware that tha t ~;1-.udy ~;tr.l'l.f.:!S '!-.he'll: t::hE'~ Study IAJ<.'.lS ·inconclusive, because the ground ~~JAS fr·ozen 1,\JI'H :~n 1-:he study t.1Jas done?

Is the minister aware of 1: h i_ s , ct n d i. s h c,~ p r e p d r C! d t o h a v e another study done so that the peopl.f~ oF 1\JP.tAJfounc:IJ,lnd can be"~ as assured as he j_s that -t:hE!re is no dc'lrnagP. l.o tht:! pr~opl<'! oF ~3 t. Anthony with PCBs? 1\Jo. 56 R3036

MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Mi.n :i.s LE!r of Environment and Lands. MR. RUS!3F.:LL : Mr. Speaker, the study to which the hon. momb(;!r refE!r S ·i.s hE!re, and I am prepared to table it. ThE!Ine i.s a copy of i:1 J.cth~l' l:o Min. Pa1nsons, the town manager of St. A n tho n y I r rom o n c or· t he off · i. ci . a l. ~; jn my department, which says: II As you ar(,~ c)\IAJC\r( ~ I :in lr:t Le Augu s L·. 1987 this DepartmE!l'l'l: commissioned a PCB s t~udy of the chsposal area at. the abandoned radar site 1 o c a l'.: E! d n E! a r S t . A n tho n 1J .

I t wa s suspected that this site could be contaminated on the premise that another similar site in Labrador turned up PCBs. 11 An ex tens iv e survey was carried out throughout the entire area. The site was surveyed, photographed, and 77 so:i.l sarnplE:~s were taken. These samples were then analyzed · by an approved laboratory using the latest techniqLIBS. 11 T a rn now pl. ~H'I ~n'! cl to info r rn y ()II that the results of this survey hdve been !>Ubllli .l:ter.l to th ·i.s Department.

Of the 77 samples La!<(~ n I 0 n J. y () n (~ s r'llllfll (,) i. n cl :i. c d L (! d i:l leveJ greater than 50 pprn (parts per rn.i.l.J..ion), wh i.l0. Uw inemA·i n·i.ng samples aJl indicated lev~ls of one ppm 11 ••• We can notAl sU'Ii·.c, IAJ:i'i:h a hjgh level of confidence, that the site does noL pose dny E=~nvironrnt:Hltal problems.

We do intend , however, l'~o carry oul : thE! following steps to complete the job that was starl::ed in Aug1.1st (with respect to the restoration of the abandon radar site) provided funding is available ... 11 In thC:' area that had a PCB level of 179 we intend to cap an · area of L3037 Jum~ 15, 1988 Vol XI. 25 meters by imported f:i1l. 11 MR. BAKER : T<3blE:~ it. MR .

RUSSELL : I tAJill table it . 20 meters 11 Construct .i. n o n :l :~ i" drainage. an op en surfac e t·.o prot J .id o IA.Ii th di tc h bE!LLc,~r ''consl:rucL a bara cc: 1dr:~ acr·oss l:hE! entrance to the dump site in order t o p r· F.!IJ Nl i. v (o! h i c u l. iH' 1: r' a f. f 'i. c . 11 MR. BAKER: -A J].ow :Ct to drain where? MR. SPEAKER : Order', please! MR . RUSSELL: Mr. Speaker, T. do not k noiAJ i.f it is any business of thE! hon. the m~~mber for GRnd~~r (Mr .

BakE•r), IAJho keeps interrupting. 11 With respect to thE~SE! rE!fnE:!dial measures, I IJ.Joul.d l"i.ke to as!< 'i.f t hi s wo r k could be carr i e d out by yo 11 r r: o 1.111 ci. ·1. . As you can s EH~ , thE! IAJork is minimal and may only takE!

AS J.ong i:l:> i7l bJ00k to r:omp}(,~le . 11 r i.na l.l.y, T rnq11ns -l-. th~1 L: Uw PCB sign be removed fr·om th e sitE '! at l: h o c~ r.u n 1 i. r:! s l-. c o n v e n i. n 1'1 c e <.·l 11 d h e J. d until we can pick it up. 11 1 would like to take this time to l: han!< you and 1J our C 01.1 n c i.l. for t h E:1 cooperation and hospi tali.t:y you hdVE:~ shot•.m me and my coll.E!agUE!S t h r o u g h out t hi s p a s t s u mrn E! r . S t . Anthony ·i.s not on1y c:l l:olAm IAri.t.h many interesting sites, it is a toum t-.hat has character.

I look forward to your comments in the nE!i;lr futurE:~. 11 I IAJi.11 table~ thts, Mi" . Speaker. No . !)() R303'7

MR. DECKER: Mr . Speaker . MR. SPF.:AKER: A final supplementary. MR. DECKER: The minister will know that the diagram accompanying that report shows that t.his s:ll-.E! is draining int.o a pond. Is the minister preparE!d to simply bury t·.his site and aJ.lot~.J it to continUE! to drain into a pond, or ·is he going to take some action whereby this site is no longer draining into the water system in the area? Mf~ ._SPEAKER : The hon. the Mlnislor of Environment and Lands. MR. IWSSFL L: M r .

S p e r.1 !< e t· , i. f s om e 1: h i. n g e l. to 0. h a !'; happened in the interim since this r0.por •1·. v.J<:U> don e, and i. r l:her0. arr:~ other problems which have arisen, I am cmrtainl. y prepar 0.d to have somebody from my department take another look at lt. [f things are cfjfferent than what was c o n t em p 1 a t E! r.l o r IAJ h a ~.: i. s s t a 1:. E! r.f i. n this report, I wiJ.l certainly be prepared to do something about it. MR. FENWICK: Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : The han. the member for rJ!en-Lhek . MR.

FENWICK: My qUE!Stion is for tht::' President of Treasur·y Board (Mr. s--Lmms), <:~nd it concerns the reclassification of the 2500 or 3000 managemBnt employees working for the provincial gou ernm mnt in all its capacities - the Hay system, as I i". h i. n !< i. 1'. i. s c a J.l. e d . My q 11 ~ s H . o n ::is this: Of thE! 2500 evaluations dono, would Lh0 PJ"(~:;·i.den-1: of TJ"E!aSUI"Y Boar·d confil"fTI that close 1.3033 June:! J.S, '1.93!! \JoJ.

XI . to 900 of these evaluations are now being appealed, that the backlog is so long that it -may take ~ year to clear, and that Vern Hollett, a former Deputy Mi.n i.s1-.e r ol- the Department of Public Works, has now been hj red as a permanent Chairm an of this Commi ttee in order to hear all those appeals? MR. SPEAKER : The han . the PrE!SidE!nt of the CounC'i.l.. MR . SIMMS: No, Mr . Speaker, I cannot confirm any o-r 1t because rnos I: of it is totally inaccurate and misl~r.~cl i.ng. 1 LAd.l.J. te1J. you wl1y, and the hon. mE !mber knov.Js it.

He r.i:\J.l .c~d ·l:ht ~ off ·i.cc today and the y gave him the information, so I do not know I)Jhy h0 :i.s br'i.ng·i .ng i.t up in the House. There are ,::~ p p , .• ox i. rnr.1. 1:0 l. y a 00 t h ;::~ L i'l r e b ~~·.in g appealed. There IAJas originalJ.y l"OUghl.y 860, SOIIIO of Lhern I."Jer·e withdrawn, so there are now i:lPPl"ox·i.rn,'ltely aoo ou 1.: of thE! 2700 manc-.1gement on thE! Hay s ca1.E!. SomE! of them IAJorr~ IJJ'i.t.hdr·at•Jn. Tl·H:'Y have done 268 appeals out of those 860 since the early part of April . In approximately eight to ten weeks t:hE:~Y have don.::~ 268.

W(;! do expl'!Ct that it wiJ.l take a bit longer than we had an ticipated , perhaps until the end of the year . But the way the member phrased his question was as if Mr. Hollett wa s now, all of a SIJdden, becoming a permanent chai rman. We had a per1nanent c ha.i .rman there, Mr. Speaker, for the la st two months. The. Deputy Min ister of Fo restr y was seconded, bu t we feel now that t h r~ De p 1.1 l: y M i. n .i. s t E! r· o f For· ('! s t. r y should go back to this department, b r~ c au s r~ or· :i. g i. n a 1 J y w (,~ had anticipated it would only take two or l.:llr'eo monl:h!;. L~Jr:! havr:' asked Mr.

Hollett to serve as HHC\ No. S6 rno3a

chairman months, because for the next five or six until this is over, of the fact he had experience in the system earlier and he has also been spending the last: l:tAJO tAJ~~eks bE!··.Lng i:rn "i.rH:1d for· thE! position of chairman. In ad d t t i. o n l~ o l: h r.l 1-: , i.: h e r 1'::1 i'l r c f i. 1; c others seconded from various snc ·l··.ot~s, i.ncJ.ucl ·i.ng the Pt~bJ :i.c Service, the Auditor General's ofFice, "l:h0 llosp·il·.t'lJ. Associ<'lt:·i .on, and thE• DE:~partrnent of Enetngy. Mosl : of l.:hern on the r:otnrnJLI:r:!e 1·1r:~ve Director or ADM level positions.

TtAJO of l:hem e~re femRJ.e, <:lnd r'lll t h E:~ 1n E:1 s t· o f i t , r.IJ r . S p e a k e r . So Lhe tAJi'IY the hon. mE!tnber frnmPd his question is not accurate at all and .i.s L:otRlly m"islead i.ng . MR. FENWICK : A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Menihek. MR. FENWICK: It is funny that most of what I said t•.Jas confirmE:H~ by HH:~ mini.s l·:t:1r so I do not see how it was particularly tni.s1t:1achng. Mr·. Hollett, of course, is a retired civil seruant who is on pension from the provincial government.

My qut:1st·i .on l:o l:l'w mJ.n'i.s i·.c:!;n i.~; this: Since he is in receip·l~ of a pen~d.on of <:~ cons i.de;~<:<blc:! ;~moun ·!: of money, tAJouJ d hE! confirm or not confirm l:hr.ti: he i.s i'tl.~;o i.n rccr,dpi: of a SE!COnd stipend in violation o F nw Pub T i. c s c r 1; i c c Pens :i. on ri r: i: for his duties as chairman of this bor.lrd as IAHdl? MR. SPEAKFR: The hon. the President of the Council.. MR. StMMS: Mr. Speaker, that question quite certain I will have to as not-i.ce. I he is not takE! fr:~el. doing L3039 June 15, 1988 Vol.

XI. anything that is 1.egis1dti.on, but question as notice. in violation ( t~lill takE! of the MR . KELLAND : Mr. Spt:1ai<E!r . MR. SPEriKER : The han. the member for Naskaupi . MR. KELLAND: Thr.lnk yo11, Mr. Sp~~ai<E:1r . Con I·T<H' y l:o ~~Jhd 1.: l:h:-~ M·i. n i. s Le r of the Env:ironrnent just suggE~stE!d to () J1 0. 0 r lrJ Y ( 0 J. l. e C\ 9 1.1 (!

S 1 lAJ h i'\ l: S C a r e S thE! people of th:is Pr·ov:incE~ :i.s not a rcspons ·iblc Opposition asking meaningful questions but a M-Lnist:e;~ oi- l::he Fnvir·onment who does not know tAJhat hE! is doing, or does no L nppE:1<:~r' to know IAJhd t. hE! i's doing I when it comes to thE! disposal and storage of PCBs. SOME HON. MEMBERS: HeRr I hear! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. KELLAND : Mr. Speaker, in laying the gt"oundwork For· my q11es U .on, t:hE!r'e is quite a quantity of PCBs stored i.n llappy Vall0y -· Coosr-~ B;:,1y.

SomE! months ago a federal-provincial r: o 1 mn i. t I: r:! e tAk\ s ~; Li" 1.1 c k , p u b l:i. c meetings were held and a report prod11r:od. I\Jo1~J l.lvd·. r·P.pori.: Ci'HT"i.E:~d quite a number of r·E:~cornrnendat:ions on hcHAJ l:o ciJ.spose of PCBs (polychlorinated biphenyls). I <'lsk Lhr~ rn:i .ni .s'i:er tAJhed : j,s l:he:1 hang-up in instituting sorne of these recommendations? MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Minister of Environment and Lands . MR. RUSSELL: Mr. Speaker, thE! rE!port to which No. 56 f{3039

the hon. member refers has not c:ross0d my desk yel:. MR. l<F.LLAND: Mr. Speaker . MR. SPFAKFR: A stJppJ.crrH~ntary, the hon. I:·. he member for Naskaupi. MR. KELLAND: Mr. Sp~::1aker, I think that probably confirms my opening remarks . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hr:1ar, hE!clr! MR . KELLAND: One of thE! rE!Commendattons, of coursc,1, ·i.s t.hi:'l-1:: hE•c1t c-1t. a cert:a-i.n J eve1 is t:he only E!X"isting method, e x c e p ~~ F o r Q x p e r· :i. Jn C:' n i: a t. j_ e-n t.o~d . U1 cherrdcal processes, to get rid of PCBs.

KnotAJing that, is Uw mj n:istel" ' absolutely certain that 1: h '" I~ rn e 1: hod o n c e tAJ e g c,~ 1.: a d J ~> p o s r.1l un"i t, wouJd be absolutely safE! and tAJouJ.cl noi: c<::tttse entJ"i.i~onrnenl-.i:\1. problems in itself? MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Minist.E!r of F.:nvi.ronmcnt r.1ncl l..ands. MR. RUSSELl : Mr. Speaker, one of l:hE:1 probl.t'1ITIS, I suppose, with the destruction of stored PCBs is, as the hon. membE!r indicated, the technological abili.l:y to d:i.spose oF them properly. And as I understand it, the only place tn Canada right now that is set up to do this is somewht:1re -in Alberta .

Ther·c,~ Rn~ two or three companiE!S I as I u n d e r· s t a n d i. t I LAJ h o c a r-r- L e d o u 1-: experiments with a technology that has not. bt:1en ofFi.c-i.aJ.J.y approved. One of ·them, I think, is in the S l: fl. 'i-: c,' of Mass a c h usE! l t s , i.n U·1 C:! Boston area somewhere or maybe New York, b11i.: i~hf.IL h<'ls not b8o.n offida11y sanctioned by the U.S . 1 •. 3 04-0 Junn '1.5 1 l9BH Vol XI. FederaJ. Agency . We alnE! a bit concerned .. We bav E! had r'8f>r'r~sent:aU.on Finom compan:ies here in the Province who wanted us t:o br• i.ny i.n l.:hfli.: pc'\rU.cul.iH' piE!Ce of equ"ipment.

We ar·e not prE!pared l: 0 cl 0 1·. h i'l ·[: 1.1 n t i. J. IAJ e f (! C::! l comfortable that it is safE! to do so . MR. KELLAND : Mr. Speaker . MR . SPEAKER: A f·i.n<'ll. supple1nent:ary, the member for Naskaupi. MR. KELLAND: l:".hr:! hon . i\J Ot.1J p o -, y c h J. or i. n a ·1·. e d b ·i. ph c,~ n y l. s a I" E:! carcinogenic, are cancer causing. () n y r: o mrntl n "i. i: y 1.: h fl. +: h a :; 1.: h E'! m s tor· P d within their environment, Mr. SpGd k r~1~, hi'llJ e -l:o br:! tAJor·ri.ed about the storage.

I ask the minj.ster, t.~>Jhr~n tAJ:i.ll hr~ i:dkr~ sotnC'! dct ·i.on to l"emove the PCBs from Happy Va11r='!y Coosr'! l1c::t1J ;::tnd ol.:h r:!r s-Li:(;!S in this ProvinCE!? Mf~. SPEAKER : The hon. the Minister of :=: 1~11; i. ro r11ne n t and I_ r.1 nd s . MR . RUSSELL : Mr. SpE'!i::tker·, jt.1sl:". as soon as lAJE! have the approved tE!chnology to do i. t. MR. SPEAKER : The hon . the member for Gander. MR.

BAKER : Mr. the ~P~~a k ,,,r, ·to Environment: Lhe In M:i.ni.stc'!r of yesterday concern-i.ng reports of transformer n(!dr ~)i:t:!phenlJ"i. l. le sotnE:1 he indicates that thE! his rE!p]y I"E!CE!rlt oil durnpE!d t.·i .me ago, cost of sampl.i .ng, do:i.ng 1·.hE! tAJab :!r samples I is $100 per sample . He says thcd~ 1-.hf~ PCRs c:H'P no 1:. lAJi.'l L:er so1ublE=!' and then he reaches the astounding No. ':>G ~~ 3 01~()

conclusion, Mr. Speaker, that thE! sampling would be considered l:o be 'more of a curiosity than a prtority.' In 1-i.ghl:: of t:hat, Mr . Speaker, I would like to ask the minister: Is he aiAJare:~. first: of <:~l.J., PCBs are water soluble to the extent of . 2 milligrams per li tre? Is he aware that this concentration is .~ct::u<:llly Jncreas~=!d :in 1-c~ ·i·:r.~l anirnaJ.s t:o far beyond that? Js he:~ r.·li~Jarc :! l:hc'lt i l: is i'\l .so soltlblr:! 'Lhl"ough the slcin?

Tn light of !: h ::! s e F <:'1 c t s , J 1~10 111 c:l l :i. k C::! to ct s k t.h~~ mj nister· if hE! still believes thi'll: -1-.he IAJd 'LE!I" sa1npJ.i.ng i.n thr:1l : area is only a ma tt er of curiosity? MR. SPf.AKfR : T h t:! h on . 1: he Mi.n J s 1. e r oF Environment and Lands. MR·. RUSSELL: Yes, Mr. Spc~~akE!r, T. believe J l -i.~; more of a matter of curiosity. MR. BAKER : A supplementary, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the member for Gander . MR. BAIO:f~ : That is absolutely asl:ounding, Mr . Spei'lkC'!r!

In J.i .gh ·i: of l~hc~~sr:! facLs, f ·ir~;L: of alJ, IAiiLJ the mJ nister invesU .gate to detc ~rrni.ne i'.hc<tl·. blhctl-. T e1m si'\ying :is COI"I"c~~ct and, secondly, tAJi.lJ the m i.n:is l.:or· i'\ssurn the~ flot1s:~ l·.hc:li : I h€:1 reported dumping IAJJ 11 be fully ·i. n v c~ s i-:i. g a i: e d a n d 1. h a 1: all L h o proper water sampling will be done? MR. SPEAKER : rhe han. ~he M:i.nisl.:er of Environment and Lands. MR. IWSSELL : L3041 JUnE! 15, 1988 Vo1 XL Mr. Speaker, I am pre!pared to helVE! the matter further investigated for the hon. member. MR. SIMMONS: rJtr . Speaker. MR .

SPEAKER: The hon. the me!fnber for FortunE:' -­ llc~rrn ·H :i'lge . MR. SIMMONS : J say to the Mini st er of Fn•Ji .r·onrnr :•nt: ihRt: !he up to $l million is a figure frorn one of h ·i. !; orr:- ·i ci. i'll. ~; +-. h i'l t: 1. 1rHH' ('! ·1. y repeated . Mr. Speaker, the rn:i.1Yi. !; U=! r· IAJO n d C:! red IAli 'l (;! 1~ C! L·. he confusion carne fl"orn. It is in a dor:wn0.nl : he s·'Lgned. lie:! ought to read those documents before he ~dgn~; th:~rn, UH'! doct.lrn~ =!n+: l:hat: contains 1 curiosity 1 • The word I tAJanL to introduce ·i.s UlE! one my friend from Naskaupi just mon'i:i.oned.

Tho m·:Lrd.stE~r should realize that it is not a curiosity only MR. SPEAKER : Order, please! MR. SIMMONS: but ·i.L hct~; ci'\nce:~rous, -i.n t:hE! literal sense, implications. He s h o t 11 d r e i'l J. i. z e l: h a t . MR . SPEAKER: Order, please! The hon. member is making a speech . MR. SIMMONS: T. l:hOtlgh'i:, S·i .r, J tAla~; g:i.uO'i.ng ~ good pr·earnble. Here is rny question, l-or· t:hn MJ.nis l.:t:!r of who, Mr . Speaker, i'\SStlr·i.ng thi.s !louse:~ YE:~ars - SOME HON. MEMBERS : No. 56 the question Environment, has been for three R3041

Question, quesi: ·i.on! MR . SIMMS: II c~ J. s 1: h r,~ J)Jo r· s 1-. q 1.1 0 s t ·i. on or o IH~ i" t h er·e. MR. SIMMONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . I w~:~ni : ·l:o as! < the wtnJ.s l:er of the t,r, viro nm ent , Mr. Sp eaker , wh en is he go i.ng to get around to l:r.~ k i.ng so me acti on conce rn ing the very serious pr o b l~::~ m of PCBs dis po sal ? Wil l th e mi ni ster in form the House how many approv ed PCB si. t~::~s therE ! are in thE! Pr·ovinCE!, and how many other PCB sites !·.:herE:~ cH'c,~ :i.n exis·I:E!nce, but not appr·oved? MR . SPlAKER : The hon. the Minister of Environment and Lands. MR.

RUSSfl L: Mr. ~'ipeclker, Hw answer I qJ.IE!S t·i.on I.~Jr'\S nu rn l'H:~ r o f I l::h ·i.nk ~;omei.I.Jht:!rE! i.n tabled yesterday that an st~.H~J~ed, as -l:o l:he PCB sites in the Pro1;:i.nce. P~;~. ~)po;'lk:'~r ·, l:h n r: ~ ·i. !; some conce1nn, as the hon. mE!mber i.ncli.cai :F.ld , •:\:; to ~~Jh er·e P C13~; arr·) store d i n t his Pr ovj nee , and the re are so me con c•:) rns abotli: i.i·. fr·orn •:l health vie t.l.lpo int .

As I ment ion ed, 1: II.JOIIld be ver y pl.eased i:o i:ry to fj nd a soluti on to dis pos al of t:h(:~ s F.l mate r .i.a 1 s when '1: he rig h 1·. tec hn ol ogy is ava ila bl e in thi s Pro vin ce , t.uh -Lch it is no t: a1 : the present time . MR. SIMMONS: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: A s u pp lementar y, the hon. HIE! member for Fortune - Hermitage . MR. SIMMOrllS : Mr . Spc,~akc,~r, ii· : 1.1..1hc~t tAle are mJ .n.ls ·t.er . l·iC'!, is hard to believe hea1ning from the Ll n 1 i. k p e \) (! r· ':1 () t: h (:~ ln l.3042 Jum~ 15, 1988 Vo1 XL r·espon~ ;:i. ble uri.n·i .ster· MR .

SPEAKER : 0 r· cl f:~ r , pl . 8 r:1 S P. ! 0 Y' cl (~ In , p l (O!i.~ s e ! The hon . mernbE!r IAJill pJ. ease pos e a Cjllr~st·Lon oin s·i l: dotAll'l . MR . SIMMONS: Mr . Sp(~<::~ker, 1.~r ll l. Lh(:! rn:i.rds l·:er· tell the House 1.1..1hy hE! is t:he on1y minister anywhere in Chr ist endom to in sist on waiting for technology, wher e~ s everywhere else they are making sincere effor ts to clea n up Uris mc-'!ss , to dispose properly of them? Wh en will he-'! come:' to th.is House w:it :h a plan of action to eff ect iV E!J.y address the problem? SOME HON. MEMBERS: He:~,:~r, hc,~ar! MR. SPEAKER : ThP. hon .

UH'! Mt ni . s l:. ('! r· of Lhe Environment. MR. RUSSfLL : Mr. Sp eaker, as T in d.i.cd ted earlier, t:o the bes t of rny knoiAJl. c-)dgr: ! l:her ·e i.s o nly ono p·i.E!CP of l:echnology and one sil.e .:-1 n y t)J hI'! r· r,~ · i. n I·_ h i. s c o u n 1·: r· y , i n Alberta somewhere, to dispose of PCR <;. T i'll' n not c\bou l: to come in with a plan to bring some l: c,, c h n o J. o g y -1': h i'l 1: h a s n o t b ('! E! n approved for that purpose in to l::hl.s ProvtncP. l:o di .spoSE! of PC:B s at a cost that is astronomical . Mr .

Spe ak er, l:he ho n . the member fo r Fo rtune - Herm ita ge is again becomin g sorn ewh at of an a1a rm ist. He ind ic ate d that the cost fo r the St. An thon y clea n-up was ma yb e $1 mill ion , wh ic h w as com pletel y fAlse . And I suspect L.:he source of his info rm ati on is not necessa r·Ll y an ybody in my depar tment, but so mebody else wl1o ma y hatJe a IJes t:ed i.nt0rest : J.n that. No. 56 R3042

MR. SIMMONS : Mr. Speaker, the minister can spend his whole life ~ttributing motives. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, pleaSE!! If l:he hon. member wants a fi.n."'ll supplementary that is fine. MR. SIMMONS: Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister, tAJho dc,,light:s ·i.n ."'ti-.r'H)tlting motives l:o pE!OpJ e not prE:~sE:~nt in t h J s II o us ,,, , 1·: o r.1 r: r: t~ p t rn 1J IAJO r d t: h c:~ i: it was an official of the clc~pi'lrtm(~nl· .. IJncl,~r l.hl'! l~lllf:!!; of l.hE! Hou~;e hE:~ has no choice but r:~cr:GpL rny ~~Jor ·d unLiJ. hP Ci:'ln pr'OlJf:! jt false. Nm.u, Mr.

Sper.~kc;!r, T ,~:,k the minister· pc'!dE:1SL~J. motivE:1s got l:o wi 11 he get off hi s and stop t~i:-1-:ri.bttl:ing to people. Somebody has be an ~~larmist because we do not Find the minister very alarmi.st problem. over that particular MR. SPEAKER: Orde:H', please! MR. STMI'-10NS: When is he going to do something to fulfi.lJ. h·i.~; r·espons:i.bilil:"i.es N.s the Minister for the Environment a n d g e 1: t h i. s PC 8 ITtc:~ s s r: 1 E:1 C\ n e:~ d u p and addrE:~ss the concerns that arE! around this Province? SOMf HON . MFMBERS : HerH', ~Wi:\r! MR. i~USSf.l.l . : Mr·. Speaker· . MR.

SPEAKFR : The hon. the rJtJ 11 t s l: ('! r· of Lhe Fnvironment. MR. RUSSFI..L : L3043 June 15, 1988 Vol XL Mr. SpE:1al<t,!r, <'t~> r.t tm~mbt'>-r of House I have to accept what hon. tnE!rrtber says, bul·: I do necessarjly have to believe it . MR. CALLAN: this thE! ·not You should be concerned about PCs, not PCBs . SOME HON. MEMBERS: ller.~r, hear! MR. EFFORD : Mr. Spectker. MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the rnernbeln for• Grctue. MR. FFFORD: Thank yo·u: Mr·. Spc,~akE!r . Po tnt dE:' rJ! r . s p (~a k e r· , rn y q 11 e s i: .i o n i s 1: o HH;• Minister of Fisheries (Mr. R~Lci80IIi:).

OnE! of the b:i.ggE!St problems facing the fishermen of this Province today is not only the scarcity of fish but: the fnlling price of fish. Very simply I ask thE! rninistE•r t.o~Jhat, if anything, is he or officials in the department doing about the price of fish and the sale of fish, not only in Newf ou nd1and but in Canada l:oday? MR. RTDEOUT: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Min ister of Fisheries . MR. RIDEOUT : fl'l r· . ~) p ,,~"' k n r· , t h r· o 1 1 g h '1-. he . f u n c t. :i. o n s of the Fishing Industry Advisory Roi:'lr'd c:~nd lhr;!

Mr.~rkeLi.ng DJ.vision of the Department we are consi".antl.y rnoni l:or· i.ng I:: he marketplace. We are talking to lhe people j,nvoltJE!d "i.n the industry on a daily basis about condJ . t·i.ons ·i. n I: he lflcH' k e l:pJ.a c e. And we have had discussions tJJit:h No. ''i6 R3043

the representatives of the union about some init·Laliues that we rn:ight want to jointly take a l.j_i:t.J.r:! l.at:er. R11i: TeRn assurf:~ t.he han. gentleman and the HousC:~ !:hal· . lAir:> di"(:' f11ll.y <:ti~Jar·(:' of the marke-t s:i.tuation :in Not~·Ht ATTIE!r·ica and oUH:~r· p.-'lrl ::; of 1:1-w 111or·l .d al : the~ rnomE!nt, and are fuJ ly on top oF ·i. i:. MR. FFTORD : Mt" . S p e:~ a k e 1~ . MR . SPF.AKFR: A supplernent.ary, thE! han. thE:~ member For Port de Grave.

MR. f::FFORD : One of the greatest problems ·Facing th-Ls ProvincE! today i.s that lAJe altAJays lE!t the problem happen and then do something about it. Since they are now spending $800,000 Cl yeRr on rnarb,~U.ng, d"i.d the minister or his department ever COITIE! up IJJ i.Lh l:h8 icit~i:'l tl'lt'lt possibly a pr·ovincial and national r:·\dver·tis·i ng Cd.rnpa·i .gn t:o rnHk(:' people more aware of fish products could CIJrb l:hc probl(~HI, 9(:' 1: pc~opl.e into buying rnot"e fish, and in that IJJc\Y, IJJJ Ht Lhe c:lernt'lnd l:ht:'r'A, -I he:~ prjce would be there? MR . SPfAKfl~: The:' hon .

U·w Min-i.~;ter· of r ·i.~;her·i .es . MR. RIDEOUT: M r . S p t:! a I< e i" , T IAJO n de:~ r w h c:~ n t h r~ han . gentleman camE! out from under the woodwork? Where has he been in this Province for the last three"~ or four years? Wher·e has he been since he got elected if he is not aware of the fact that this government, through the Department of Fisheries, through the Department of Development and Tourism, through the Fishing Industry Advisory Board, just a feiJ,J months ago annolll'lCE:~d a maj Oi~ national campaign right across 1_3 01~/j. Jiil'le 'I.S, 1.9HB lJo l. X I. Canada, OVE!r $2 million, Mt~.

Spei'lk(,H', on .-~ gener·i.c Ci::lmpa"i.gn on fish? For, God sake, open your eyes i:~nd rJ.nd Olli: lAJhi.d : :is go·Jng on around you! SOMF HON . MEMBERS: Hr :!dr', heRr! MR . EFFORO: A supplementary, Mr . Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A f·i.naJ. suppJ.E:~m~Hl tary . MR. EFFORD : I can tell. tho M-Lnister of Fisheries that I am like every ol:her NelAJfoundlander and !':'Very other Canadian, wondering IAJhel"e OIJr provincial. Mj.nj.st.c:!r of Fisheries is and what he is doing! SOME HON. MEMBERS : lh:!i'lr, her.1r! MR.

EFFORO : I ask the Minister of Fisheries to +.:able Ln ·t:h:is llo115r~ IJJhc-11: hj_s department or the Department of Dr:!l)r.~J.opm('!n ·l·. hds donr :! l:h"i.s year·, 1988, to advertise the ~'~ l) '" i. 1 C\ b :i. :u t y o r r i. s h "' n d r ·i. s h products fJ~om this Pt"ou:inCE! to the pr,~ople of i·hi.~; COliJ'll:i~y i·o LI"Y and increase consumption of that pt"ocluc 1:? MR. SPFAKER: Th8 hon. the Min ister of F-Lsheries . MR. RIDEOUT : I can tell the han. gE!ntlE•rnan that the Minister of Fisheries, only today, for example, was in Petty Harbour meet.ing IAril:.h the Petty Harbour Fishermen's Co-operative.

That is the kind of work that this Minister of Fisheries is dojng. J-1(:~ has b~H~n i.n Fogo, hE! has bE!en in St. Anthony, hE! has bE!E!n on the I . a b r· "' cl o r C o a s 1: , o n 1:: h e ~-J e s t C o a s t. , on the South Coast, all. ovet~ t:hE! 1\Jo. ')6 r~ 3 o/.l.tl.

Province of Newfoundland and Labrcidor working with fishermen, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. EFFORD: Table it . MR. RIDEOUT: Yes, I tAdl1 go up and prosi::rr:-tl:(:! myself on the table of the House, Mr· . Speak(~r. Thi:ti: ts IAJht'!rE! T. h<'lVt'! been as Minister of Fisheries.

Is t:he hon. g<"1n Llt:~rrk11'1 no 1: duJr:·unE! tht'li: we, in conjunction with the [) e p 1:1 r t rn E! n i: o f f) <:1IJ P l o p rete'! n i'. and Tourj srn and tAd t.h Lhe f("!clr:~ral g o v e r n m (:' n L , e\in e s p <~ n d i n g m i .l l i, o n s of dol liH'S a YE!ar· :in pt,omotion, in t r· r:\ cl e cl 8 IJ e 1 o p me n t s ? M r· . :J ~> e r'l k e r· , do you I< now thet"E:~ uJetne :1000 pr:~ople IAJork i.ng i.n thr:~ f'l<.·lY of Islr'lnd:; Ji'l.s L yea .r pacldng het,ring because this gove rntn<:~ nt took Lhe i. nJ U.i.~ U. v e i:o go to the Soviet Union to look for lrl<:lrkets?

Thai: i.s IAJh<.'lt LhJs government is doing, Mr. Speaker. SOMF. HON. MEMBERS: Hear. hE:~ar! MR. LONG: Mr. Speaker·. MR . SPErlKU~: The hon . the member for St, John 1 s East. MR . LONG : My question, Mr. Speaker, is for· the M.i.nis ·l:er of J11 st i.c:e (Ms Ver·ge). In view of a very public debal :e that : has b~ ~~~ t·1 or.c: ttrri .ng over the J as t number of months, l:he l,,;,sl : sL x 1110nt :hs r.l'l: l0.c;J.sl :, i:lnd I h1:1ve had r·opr·c"~sentation on it, C () n C: (~ r 11 'i. n '::J 1: h f.:~ FJ r 0 1J:i. S j 0 1'1 0 f f -i. r 0. :.ct~v:i .cc'!s ::in thE! ci ty of ~:;t.

John 1 s, I·. he~ dr~beH:r'! be:1l:l•IE!en the F::i r·efight:er' s Union and thE: ' Fire Ch.i.ef for UH:~ c.i Ly. T. IAJOttld l i.k0. l304S June 15, 1988 Vol XL to ask the minister a specific question, and that is would she respond to the call for an inquiry into the recent fire on Springdale Street in which the life of an ·i. n fan t tAla s l. o s t.? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Justice . MS VERGE: Mr.

Spc"1akr:1r. a~; .ls usual in Lhe cases of sudden and tragi .c dt>ath 'in 011r Prov:Lnc~=!, :in this particularly unfortunate and lra•j i c '.i.nci.c:IC!n-1: ;:., j ttdi.c ial ·inqt.tir·y has been ordered. Specifically l. h r:' j 1 1 d i c .i. a l J n q u -L r· 1J IAii .ll d C! a l with the sudden death of Lisa PotM er· i'lnd l.hr. Cdttses and c:i _t,cumstances of t:he f:it~E:~ at 1.20 :) p r· 'i n g d i'll 0. ~ > I ,~ r~ e I. . r h E! j u cl .:i. c i d 1 inquiry was ordered by the D·i.rec hH' of P11b.l i.e Prosecuti.ons immediately upon his receipt of '.·.he pol :ice repor·t r.1bottt l:ho Fi.r·e.

That was d cine j us t about an hour ctgo. The police report was received this morning. MR. LONG: A supplementa~y. Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER : A supplementary, the hon . thE! member for St. John's East. MR . LONG : Mr. SpeakE!r. r IAJOJtld l.'ikC'! to ask the Minister of Justice a d"i.Ffert :!nt quesi:i .on bul:: on a similar matl:er, and il: has to do t•d.i' . h U10. r: o n c e n1 '.· lv\'1 : h d s bE! E! n raised to me by a number of rny consl.i.I:JJt·)nl-.~; fr·orn thr'! F.c1st. End of St.

John 1 s, obviously a dr:'nse1y popttl .a I:E!d i'IT'C.:!r'l of rnos l:.J.y IAJOOdC'!n structures, about the cornrnents br:!Jng rnadu :i.n pttblic c:-tbout Lhe rnora]e situation of firefighters . r:; l:he rn.i.n:i.si :P.r i'l.blc:• to br··i ng t.o the House any information with r·especl: l.o l:he pr·ocess Uvd: has No. 56 R304-5

bt':1en underti.Jd.Y to resolve t-:he very public grievances and differences of opinion thctt have arlsen bettAJec~1n thE:1 Fir·efighh1r 1 s Union Cl n cl t h e c h l. (:! f i. n lAI h J r: h I: h e I~ I h 0 l (~ question of morale amongst the f J r e f ·i. g h L e r s h a s o b 1; i o 11 s 1 y be e n put at :.i.ake? MR. SPF.f.II<FR: The h on . U1e r'l ·i n ·i. s t e r· or J 11 s t i. c P. • MS lJf.R(;r::: - - Ml".

SpE~akE:H', since January W€:1 have hdd, unclr~J~ Lhe l.eiltclc:!rshi.p of Lhe Dc-:>puty Mi.nister· of Labour, M1~. llotAJiH'ci Nos ewor i·:hy, i'l COI[lrrlol l:.i··.c:!E:1 jn volving representatives of the managem ent of the St. John 1 s F j.re Department and the Firefighter's loq~l. tr·ying to identif y ar·eas of concern and to improve morale 1..uithin thc-:1 f:ire dE!part.ment. That committee, as I say, was established in January and has been operating since then. I should, qui.b~ shor·tly, be J~E:1ceiving a report from thE! Chair of the committee. MR. LONG : A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker . MR.

SPEAKER: A fj nal supplemE:Hltary, thE! han . Uw rnernbE!r For :Jt. John 1 ~; Fi'lS'L. Ml~. I..ONG : The fina] supplementary I would l. .i. k e L o p 1.1 ·I~ 1: o U1 ~· rn ·i.rd. s UH' h a s t !) do wjth correspondence that I sent i·:o hC"!i~ ofF .i.ce sorno i:.irne ago And I hi:ttJe not ,~ecEdved a 1nE:1spons101 . I IAJOiil.d sl:i .ll l.i .ke l:.hE:1 rn-i.ni.sl.-.E!i" .l:.o undert .ake to find out for me lAJhe th!i!r l:he Ci t.y of Si :. John's received any kind of remuneration from the federal government wh en the fire station was closed in Pleasantville?

As a result, the 1..uhole protection and provision of fire serv·ices in the Ectst End has been put at stake. L3046 June 15, 1988 Vol X I_ MR. SPFAKF.R: Order, please! MR. LONG: ~\)Oiil.d 'i:.hc~1 ITI""i.nts 1-:.ein rE!Spond? MR. SPEAKER: The-?. · ·hon. -mernbE!r asked q11os t· i.on. Thr~ . Sf~conr:l not quite rE:~lc:ltE:~d Cl'!i~t.r::l"i.nl .y i·.h:i.s r·i l'li'll is in no t..uay r·e 1ated q11es L·i.o n he i'IS kc,~d. MR. W. CARTER : Mr . Speaker . MR . SPEAKER : an ol~iginal CJII (~' S l:.'i. 0 1'1 L~JC~ S t.o j_t, and s 11 p pl.

E'! rne n 1· a r' y 't:o thP fi1nst. ~3o t r'C"!cogn:i7..E! l:hc~1 hon . for Twil1ingatE!, who is be rc:!cogni.ZE:1d. t.hc~1 rnc~~rnber asking to MR. W. CARTER : This question goes to the Minister of Fi.sher·ies. for some days now the people of St. Lawrence and LdiAJn have been !Alai U.ng for· a statement from the minister as to 1.11 h a l·. h ·i. s i. n t·.: c-:1 n l: .-Lon s d I" C:! and tM h r.l t progress is being rnade with r· C;;~ s p r:! c t. t-. o ,~ e "' c t·. :i. u i'l i · .. i l'l g t h e .i. r· f o:i. s h plant . Can the minister update '!:he 1-iOIISe l'lOIAJ dS to IAJhF.It i.S happeni .ng?

Mf~. ~3PF.JlKER : The hon. the Mini stE•r of Fisi·lE!In:i.E:!S , MR. RJDEOUT: rJtr . ~peakf.H', yes, lhe hon . gentleman is correct . We hav e been in uery intensive nego tiatio ns wi th Mrs . Ting, her legal reprF-)sentai :i. ves, and representatives of the government, over the last several days no 1..u, I guess a week yesterday, reall y . We reached an agreemel"1 't yes te rday between Mrs. Ting and her attorneys and representatives of the Proui n ce . It IAJa s au r unclc:>r·standi.ng and her· comnritm<'!nt that the agrePrnent, in principle, No. 56 R3046

the letter of :intent, L4Jould be transrrri. L:h,~d l:o Lhe PrOlJ i.nCE! las L night before the opening of busirwss toddy. Unforl:lJrli:ltel.y, for u.Jhat:.ever reason, that has not happe:~ned, l'-1r. Sp~~dke:~r. I understand that the lady herself is prc,~sentl.y en r·oute:~ l:.o st~. John 1 s 1 and I might have morE! to say lahH' l:oday. MR. SPEAKER : OJnde:~r, plE!aSE:~! The time for Oral Questions has elapsed. Notices of Motion MR. BAI<fR : M r . S p ~~ d k e r· . MR. SPf.I)I<FR : The han. the me:~mbe:H' for Gander . JI.1R. BAKER : Thank yo11 ver·y rn11ch, Mr·. Spc~a!<f)r.

T ask le~ve introduce a with the sale and the impact the Province. of t:he i·IOIJSP. l:.O resolution dealing of TE!rTi'l 1\Jova ft,~J. t hi s wo u J. d h a v E! o n The r·eason I ask for· leave of ~~he House to do this is because I alrE!ady havE! a r·esoluti.on on the Order Paper an d this cannot procE!ed unless U1l;!rE! is leF.Ive granted by the House. It is the kind of resolution t IAJOIJl.d 1. i.kE! to SE!e dealt with immediately. - MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker . Ml~. SPE'AKFR: The hon. the-) Pln (!S :i.dl~n l-. of Lhe Counci J . MR. fHMMS : 1..3047 June 15, 1988 Vol XL Well, Mr.

Speaker, certainly, this stele of Lht:~ i·IOIJS~~ ·i.s fre:~cp .l~'!i1l:ly "Ln a co-operative mood and we are <:lgi'l 'in l:oddy, as <:ll.l.i.Ji.'lys. I have, in fact, had an opportunity to h a v e a l. o o k At !:: h e r' e:~ s o l u l:: i o n [:: h e han. member proposes to put and hc.we no gr'(!at dif'f'iculty lAd. t:h :i.t.:. On the o t:hHr hand, hoJJJeVC.;!r, I arn interested, as welL in seeking the co -o peration of members opposite with a r'E!qUE!st to today, if we might and th ls is not blackmail; I do not want anybody to gE!l: up And say l:h·is ts political blackmail or anything. ~3-i.nc:P.

T ht:llJ e to responding J.E~HlH~, nri.ghl. I ITIE!mbE!r to use '1-.: h ~) ·t:he ctl.so his f-J oor· .. i. n rE!qUE!S'L for' ask l:ht~ hon. influenCE!, por·haps, l:o see i.f rnc,~mber·s of h i.s party, on his stde of thE~ HousE!, m·i.gh l: be-) r>r·epr.H·ed todi'tY, llJhC'!I'l IAJP get to the Private ME:~mbers 1 motion pori:-i.on, l:o Hli.'~ko ~;orne k:i.nd of an agJnE!ement JJJhE:~Jneby u.Je could s 1-lOI' "L<,~n 1-. he r•r,~mr.li. n i ng I. ·i.fllt'! For cl e bd h:~ on the private members 1 resolution, which i. s , aFt·. P. r· r.1 l. J. , onE! of our own resolutions.

We are quite prepi'lred l·~o g:i.ve 11p Hw t. i.rnE! for it by allowing one more speaker fr·om ~:hat si.cle, perhaps, and the member for St. John 1 s North (Ml". J. Car·t<->.r') t.o conclude_ It should take a short period of time. That would then and a hi'\J.f or· so with some of the and sornE! legislation. giVE! us an hour l:o per'1'1aps get ' on people 1 s business very important: I would be i.ntc,~rt'!sl ·:ed in hei'\r'ing a to that kind of request i. n d -i. c a I-.e,~ 1 e R tH~ . r·esponse before I MR. FENWICK : rJlr•. Sp~>.dk<,~r . MR. SPEAKER : rhe hon. l:he i'llelllber· for Meni l·wk . No. 56 R304-7

MR. FENWICK: To the proposal, Mr. Speaker, we do not have any major obj ec lions to the resolution put forward by the me::~mbE:H' for Gi:lnder·. lrdE:~ tAJOuld be glad to put it through quickly, a1thotJgh t..ue wotJld J.'ike to ptll 1:1 fE:H..u comments on tht:~ record of maybe Fi.1Je rni.n11i.:E!S or so t..u·i.th regard to this resolution. tfll·_L'!.h r·c-~gal"cl to the sugge:'stion madE:~ b y 1--_ h e Go IH' r n m o n i . fl o u s e I _ f:! i'l cl <-:! r' , t~H'! have not had t-h(':! opportunity to SPl:~r.tk on i.hr~ n ,~so ltlt- _·i,on pti-1: forw~rcl by the member for St.

John's 1\lorLh ctnd t1JF.! bot-.h ,,J.i.sh t-.o n1ake some contrllents on it; lAJhether ·-j_ t bE:' t h <.-'! f til J. -twP n t y mj_ 1111 L: e s IAJE:~ ar·e allowed, I do no ·l: kno1..u. But, of course, 'i. F IAJE! mct b,1 our· t.tAHHli-.: y minute comments and nobody else speaks from the Liberal side or the government side, that would then be disposed wi-th. At that point, we have no objE!Ction to going on to government business, if that is indeed .what transpires. MR. SIMMONS: Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Fortune - HE!rmj_ lc1ge:~. MR. SIMMONS : Mr·.

Spei:t!<c:H', on l:he rnctl.:+:ei" of l:h<~ pr·oposaJ pu ·t by the gentleman from Gr'i'\ ncl F i'l. ]_ 1 s ' IAJE! 0:1 p fH'e c i. r'l t e 1" h (.~ co-operative spirit he talks about. rhe i.sstle ri:t i.sr,~d by l:he genU eman ft"orn Ge:tndel" (Mr· . Raketn) i.s an i.rnpor·-1 -_iHl-t-. cHit' i:tnd, ( believe, deserves some co -opE!r'ai.::ion. ( am glad t£19 r.lre going to get it . It is an issue I do not h1;1vc,~ to E~l.dboratE! on, relating to the sale of TNT. But I J..uould hope Uti'l t would be considered on its merits. MR. SIMMS : L304-8 Jum~ 15, l9B8 Vol. XI..' :a IAiill be. MR. SIMMONS : Okay.

I am pJ.E!ased to have c o n f "i. nn co?. d i·: h a 1-. i. 1·.: IAri. l l. b e considered on its merits because 1.: he oUJF.!r i.l: ern s hor1ld not bt> considered in tandem. The other :i. i:< c~ lfl s h o 1 1 l. d b E~ s ('! e n f o r· IAJ h a t i t is. It is not: a rnat.ter of getting an r~ x i :r- !:'t h o 11 r· o i" h r:~ J. F h o 11 r , or t..uhatever the caSE! may bE'!, to dobr:ti-P. •::JOIH'l"l'lriiC'!IlL l.eg.LsJRl .. :ion, ·i l:_ is an attempt to scurry away as qtl'i.Ckl.y r'l:; poss :i_bl.f:! frorn thdt despicable Sprung issue.

Remember thr:ti~ -1-.he pr·:i.vi'lU,, trlf'!rni:HH's' resolution today, Min. Speaker ·, ha s 1"_0 do t.u :i,1~h Spr·ung, and l:hi.s government IJJants to get atAJC1Y frorn t·: hat d i. s c 1.1 s s _i_ o n . MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. SIMMONS: We iH'E:~ go"i.ng to seE! Lo it that it is rammed down their throats every chi:lnCE:~ i:hc,~y 9E:'i:.. MR. SPEAKER : On:IE:H', pl.ei3.SE~! SOME HON . MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER : Ord<::H ', plE!i'lSE:~ l MR. SIMJI.1S: In re~sponse, Mtn. SpE!aker, and to -t: i" IJ l: o <:on<: l 11 de .

T h d tJ <o' a l. l" e ct d y told the hon . thE! mernbei" for' G i:t n cl r:! r I h i:ttJ E:! no pro b J. ern tAli_ 1.: h l hE! resolution. I thought tAJhile I had l: h G f J. 0 <H' T trd 9 h 1.: pI I i: f 0 r· t h a reasonable request to members opposite ln a spirit of co-operation. It is our r·esoJ.ution. We ar·e not trying to run away from it . That is rlOI'lSEHlSC-'l, absolu tc,~ are proud of it! No. 56 nonsense! Members WE! have R 304-8

spoken on it in debate on the last day. ~~C:' ht:~d one f11ll. day oi debclte on it already. We ~re just as ld n 9 :i. f m ~~ rn b c~ r· s o p p o s i i: f:~ rfl"i. g hi: be prepared to call the resolution a li.LLl.t'! ear·l.i.f:~r today aL, Si'tiJ, quarter to four or something so l:hcd: IAH:~ can g(~t. a no 1:-.i'H,~r· ho11r· or· Rn hour clnd a quarter doing sorne government legislation. That is all, a simplE! r1?.quest . If han. members opposite do not want to co-operate, then t.ue will keep that -L n rn :i. n d the n ex t: t. ·i rn e lAJ e g E~ I~ i:l request. MR. SPEAKF'R: The han. the member for Gclnder .

MR. SAKF.R ; Do I have r· e s o lu t i. o n , MR. SPEAKfR: J.eave to introduce Mr . S p E:~ 1:1 k e r·? Yes, the hon. member has ]eave . MR. BAKF.f~: the The l"E:~soJ.ution, Mr·. Speake1n, reads and T. IAJOitl,d ].'ike to l:ablr,~ i'\ copy. MR. SIMMS : ~ir~t, on a point of order, Mr . Speaker. MR. SPF.:AKFR : A point of order, the han . the PlnE!S-i.dr,~nt of thE! Counci.l. Mf~. S rr-1MS: The agrE!ement simply is the han. member r·eads the r·(:~solu tion and we vote on it. There is no debate on t.hE:~ r·esolut:..ion. That. 'i.s lAJhal: lo~H~ discussed. MR. FENWICK: To the point of order, Mr. Speaker. Ml~.

SPEr\KF.:R: To thE:' point of orde1n, the han. the rnE:~Hii:w r for Me n:H11~ k . MR. f-TNWTCK: 1.3049 June 15, 198H 'Vo] XL Mr. Speaker, we have agreed to al.lct.~J Uw l"E!SOllti:ion to corn<:' "i.n, but a]so I would likB to have abo111: ~~·i.~;c~ mir111H~s I.AJ<H'i.:h of comments on it. So we do not c'lgret~ t~.dt:h Lhat partiCII]dr d~~al being struck. Although we can s1~pporl: most oF U·H'! r·esolut.i.on, u.Je have sornE! comments we wouJ.d likE! to m<:~ke on il-.. So, i.f il~. i.s all right with the Government House Lear:lc:~r· (Mr.

S.irnrns), IAH?. can go l}ri . l:h it unti] 3:00 o 1 clock and at 3:00 o 1 cl.ock we can go to Private Members 1 Business. We do have some cornrnenl:s tAJe IAJOI.il.d 1.-i.ke to put on the record before we vote on it. MR. SPEAKER: Or·der, plE~clsE:~! 'I l·: c:·l fl p e i'-1 r· s l: o mE! t: he r (;! qualified leave now. memb0.r for· Merl'i.hek t.AJants that he speaks to the or· l:o !:he mo 1: ·i,on. -nlt:~ ·t·. I I n q II c'\ J. ·i. r i. 0 d J. (~ cPH~ 0 F t hE' MR. WELLS : Mr. Speaker. MR. SPFAKER : The hon. ~he l.c,~adc,~r Opposition . MR.

WELLS: J.~; jus!: a The han. i:o "i.nsist resolution i. s not an House. u·F t:hE! TF thE:' hon. GoVE'!rl'liTH:~nl:: HousE:! Leader has no objection, Wt:' do not object to one member from each caucus having a five minute on the resolution. I th ink that .is in order. If that is the on] y basis on IAJh.ich thr::~ hon. thE~ rnembt'!r' for Menihek will give lE!ave, LIJC'! do not object. OrH,~ fi .1Jc.;o Jfl'i .nutE! spec ,~ch from each caucus. MR. SIMMS: Mr . Spc,~akcr. MR . SPErlKER: The han. the Governrnent: HouSE! I et:~r:lc-~r. No. 56 1no49

MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, I have already said and made an agreement with the hon. member earlier and gave him my wor·d l.I.H:~ ~~JOLild hav~~ no pr·obl.ern dealing with the resolution as long -it IAU:ts a r·c~sol11L··i.on for· votirrg on and no debate. Now, :if you are going to throw in sorn~::~l":l·dng f~l.se, ar:ldil ... i.ondJ. df :!br.\1 ::~), lhen T IAJouJ.d likE~ thE! han. the I. C:~dder· of I'. he~ · Oppos ·i 1.:1 on i:o conr.ide1n a rE!quest I madE! E!i'll"1jer l". 0 h i. S C a I I C 1.1 S , 1". 0 9 .i. l) ·~ II S i\\ b -i, i: () fc t.:i HIE! 't:o do som~~ goVE!Y'nrnent J. e g ·i. s l d L J o n .

SOMF liON. r.IIF::r'IBFR~·> : Heal", hr:~ar·! Mf~ . SIMMS : We are prepared to withdraw our rE:~sol.ut- .lon or cut -u: shor·t. MR . WELLS: We w·ill sit this evening to some government legislation or sit tomorrow morning or sit some other ti.1ne to do it. AN liON . MF.:MBER : Why not do it now? AN HON. MEMBEr~: No 1 C:~avc-?.! SOME HON. MEMBERS : Ol·i, oh! MR. WU 1.:3: W:i lh l"espE>.c-t, Ml" . Speai<E!r, jf the hon. gc~nl.l.elflf:!l1 l~k\nl· Lo he;u·, jw;i: stop thE! gagglE! of noise-?. and thc,~y IAI i. l. 1 h ~"! r.\ r· 1.11 h a t. 1.11 0. h i'ltJ e i: o s ·""'~ y o n t-he mat teln .

T h d 1: in e so l.u t 'i. on i. s on the 0 r· cl e,~ r Paper. We have had one hour's debate-) on it, not: a Full ddy, just a half day because the day was cut short. t.o a. two -hour day. L30SO June 15, 1988 Vol. XL Now, Mr. Speaker, apparently an agreement was made between the han. the"! Govenunenl: House Leader (Mr. Simms) and the member for G;:~nder (Mr. Baker·). A monkey wrench has been thrown into it s or· t of by Lh~) rn~Hnbe r· for· Me ni he k (Mr. Fenwick) IAJho insists that hE• wctnts to spectk on il:.

Tf he insists that, then he gets to s p !':' d k o n ·j 'l · . f f t·. h e Co u E! r· n rn E! n t HoUSE! Leadeln IAJill not aglnE!E~ to a fi1;p rwi.i ·l11 ·l·r,, sperc!r:h fr·om t~ach caucus, then thE! aglnE!ement fcllJs. T r: r~ n n () l: hE! l p ·j_ 1· .. MR. STMMS : Mr . Speake in . MR. SPt.AI<ER: ThE! hon . thr:~ Presid ent of th e Council. MR. SIMMS : Well, on the contrary, the han . member can help i..t, i.f he l.I.Jants to, if he wanted to co-- ·operatE!. I hetvE:~ al .re:~r:H~Y sa'i.d the hon. member's presentation has nothing t o d o IAJ'i t h 1n y p r o p o s c:~ 1 . S "i. n c r:>.

I had the floor though and I am trying to extort, if you want, some - AN liON. MEMBER : A good word . SOMF HON . MFMB ERS: Hear·, hea1n! MR. SIMMS : fxtotn ·t~ . YE!S, I ar11 trying to r.' x hH' 1·. co -·ope 1'•-::\ L ·ion Fr·om rnernb f.! I" s opposit:E! because, Mr. SpE!aker, l:hetl: ·i.s ·l:he only 1~1ay yo11 '"rill gc -?.t :it from thr:~m. MR. WELI .S : That is not so . MR. SIMMS: 1 f t·.:h<:' hon. Opposition is No. ~j6 the'! I .. E:~ader of not preparE!d the to ~no so

c o -· o p E:~ r a t e :.i. n t h a t r· e g a r d , t h e n , as J Sc:li.d, IAJe IAJi.J.l. keq> l:ho:\·1". in rn:ind. f!~jth t"E>.spect l::o h:i.s p d r L "i. c ttl <'I ;· r· e:1 q 11 e s l: , L: h e h o n . t h c,1 ntt:~rni:HH' fot" GandEH', tAle have:~ no p r· o b l tHn a g r c,1 c-~ :i n g tAd. L h o n e fjve-·mjnute speaker from each p d r· l.: y . T h o'llJ c,1 cl.l r· e ad y :i. n d i r. •'I l: e d '!-.hat. But I really wish the l_t~r:lriE!r of thE! Oppos.i.L:i.on I'JOiil.cl g:ive:~ a b:it ntOI"e consideraUon to my request. MR. SPEAKER : Order, please!

I IAJould l·i.ke to point oul : to hon . members that there is no time today for· f"i.vt~ rn:Lnu les fr·om l:1ach side . It is now three o'clock and I IAJ'i. ll h r.l v t:! t. o c ,., ll. P r i. v d 1:. 1::1 Membet"s' Day unJ.es s alJ han. me:~mbGrs c1gr~::H1. SOM E liON. MEMBERS: By lc->.ave! MR. SPFAKFR : rhe ho n ' U·w Tllt~rnb (,~ r r 0 j' G<Hlrl e r·. MR. Bf.\i<FR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: HecH', hear·! MR. RAI<F.R: Mr. Speciker, the resolution reads :

WHEREAS the sale of rerrd by Canadian National has its final stages; and Nova rt:!l. rE!aChE!d WHERE!iS CN ls now acu~pting Final. bids from onJ.y those companies l::hat will provide adequate financial return to CN; and

WHEREAS some of these bids may r·t:~sul.t Ln a gr'edt loss of jobs i.n LITis Pr·ovince and less competition :Ln the corrnnunicat i.ons indttstry; and 1_3()!j l .TI!rl(,1 l'J, '1.9B8 lJol XL. WHERE'AS i-1: is desirable to provide oppcwi:lln .i.l:ins for l.ocC\1. entrepreneurs to invest in this Pr·owi .nce; ilF: lT 'f"IIFf~fFOi'~[ RE:-)OI .lJf~D l::hc1t l::h·is hon. House request that CN giVE! IIIOSl.

COWddE!i''i:1l::i .on t.O ll'lOSI,' b::i.ds that do not involve significant job loss in lhe Prov ince, that provide for local ownership of rc'•t"rC\ 1\JOVCl. rc:•l, and l:.hr:1.l: 1naJnt.a .i.n adequate competitjon in the COIIHntJITi.c.:~t·i .ons ·i.ndus t:r·y of· our Province. r·'lr' . s p e a k E! r· , · 1: h i ~; r· e s o 1 u t i o n i s very carefully thought out. ThE!

Hous<,1 'i.s <:liAJarE' that: at l::h<'! t:iiTIC:' the decision was made to seJ.l Terra Nova Tel, CN decided :it would try to cut its debts by selling off- sorne of i.t.s morE! profitable operations, and Terra I\]01Ji·1 Tel IAJi'IS c:-1. pr·of 'i. tab}E! operation. At that time great con c e r· n I!JC\ s ex p r· c,1 s s e d , and I 1:: o o k it upon myself to atLE!I'IIpl: to slotu d !)IJ.In Uw s r'll !'! 0 r· s '1:. up UH~ s C\ 1 e ' My reasons were precisely these ottt<l. ·inerl in l:he resol.ttU .on, Mr. SpeakE:H'. r·i.r'S 1·. of r.lll.

I I C:OIIld ~;ee thE! possibility of a tremendous job loss bt:~Ci'II!Se of l::hi.s ~;c1.l.e. That: is onE! thing we cannot s l:and, a J.os s of jobs. 1\JOIAJ, gr'<Hl U~d I:: he job loss, Mr. Speaker, would pri.m;u··i .ly bl,~ :i.n l:he tot~m of· Gander. I would like to point out that: these r.H'e jobs t.hat IAJould be lost to the Province of Net.ufoundland . T h I::H' c,~ IAJO u 1. d C\ l. so b C:1 job 1 o sse s in other areas of the Province, ~ws i.d1::1s GandE!r. T am Hd.nk:ing in particular of Corner Brook and St . John's. So, UH~ job l.oss IAJas a very great concern. Also, Mr·.

Speaker, I IAJclS concer·nH:I ~.Jo . !) (j iBOS:l

.._ about what would happen to that company ·i.f, -i.n fact, li: tJJer·e tabm over by individuals who had no grr:~at concE:~rn for this Pr·ovincE! or· no feel for the Province. MR. MATTHEWS: Like who? MR. BAKER : The Minister of Career Development I;.Ji:Hll:S l:O !<1'101./J, 1 i.··i,ke IAJho? 1 f"hE~ problem wjth Lhis whole process, Mr. ~3pc,~flkE!r, i.s that: '*" do nol. know who thE! biddet~s are. I have Lr ·U,d to f"i.ncl 0111·. 1~1ho 1-.hE" b iddt'!l~s i.'ll"E!. T kno1JJ son1c-?. of thr:'rn, but.

I do nol: knOI;.J l·.h(~lfl all, aHlr.l, t.hr:~rE!fore, :.it IAJouJ d be unfair to l'lc~IJIC !:he i.:IAJO Or' l~hr'CC,' l do !olOI!) about. .T can tell you, Mr. SpE!r'lki::!Y', Lhdt one oF 'l:hern is Newfoundland Telephone for certain. AN HON. MfMBFR : Is Harry Steele one? MR. BAKF:R: Now, Mr. Speaker, another concern 1 had at t.hE! t-Lme, asoidc,, fr·om the job Joss, and aside from the input of Neu.Jfoundland c-?.nt.r·epr'E!rH:HH'S, :i.s a concern for the lack of competit io n in the Prov ince. I feel the possibility exists competlt ion , ...

Jill be lessened and t firmly believe the way things should operat:e is th at Jt shoul d be competitive. If , in fact, these are going ~o be prtvdte companies operating a service in i:he Prov i.nce, i:her8 should be ~o rne kind of competition. T h ~~ IAJh o 1 c-?. pro c E! s s , M1~ . SpeakE:~ r , IA/f\S i"' dj_ffi C,Ul. t: one. (\ COI"IIpiHIY IJ.Jas hj l"ea to supposE:~dJ y handlE:' the SCI}(! i:l.t i:H'rrlS l.r.-:~ng~·.h. \r.Jp Cr:Hll'lOI-. find out, and I say u.Je :in tC'!rrns of 1.he ~i.nditJ:i.diJal.s 11.Jho hdvc,~ br'!e!n tJ.Jorking on this problem, we cannot find out who the bidders ~re.

L3052 June 15, 198B Vol. XL They have gone through a procE!SS whc;!r·e thr:~y hr'lVC-'! Ed i.mi.nated bidder·s who do not . provide enough money for CN and obviously !:his has to br:~ CN 1 s first considE!ration. ThE!Y have to get vctlue for that company. They have to get enough vctlUE! to rnor·~:~ than compensatE• themselVE!S for· the company. I undl'!rstand l:hr:!re ar'E! a nurnbE!r' o·F bids, I do not know hou.J rnany, IJ.JhE! r·e t·.hE:! rnonE!Y -i.nvoJ vr::ad is lrlO I" e than the company was IAJOrth, in c! Sf!I1SC:!J I flO r'C.:! thdn [·. h r,~ fac c~ lJi'll.UE! that they set on thE!

COITlpr:lny, a Fr.dr· <:wlo 1111 t: mo ;" C:! . T h1- ~ prob le m l.s nol ·. I:IMt l:he C:N i,s not go in g to get enough mon ey . ThF.l y ht:'llJ8 gonr ~ l:hro11gh the sec ond stage now. They have eli minated l:h1-) b·i.ds 1:hat d!l no 1:. pr·ov i.de enough monE•y, enough return, and l-.ho y <:-~J~r::! l'lOIAJ cons :i.dr:!r'-L ng o nl. y t: he bids that give them enough money. Now I think at this point, Mr.

Spr:~aker, i.t i.s ver·y dppr·opr·:i.ate to say to CN, 'Of al1 of t:hE!SE! b"ids you a r· e n OlAJ consider "in g , you are going to get paid adequate returns f r· o 111 a n y u rw of t. h e rn , b u t t n considering which bid you arE! go:i ng to accept-, if ei. ther one;!, tAlE! want you to take these things into consideration. We want you to take into consideration the conlp~~t-.i.i·.ion tn thl'! Pr·ovincc,~. We want you to take into cons·i.dE!rdt:i.on Lhe f~1ct l:hat this gover·nrnent, through sornE! programs l:hc~y c'lr'f'!

J'l()ILJ br"ing"ii'lg i.rJ, :iS trying to encourage the 1\Jc,~IAii"OIII'ldl cHlcJ ·intJe~; l:tn(o!lli.: ··i.n Newfoundland and tryi .n~1 to n nc 011 r'i'lg E! 1\JH~.JF 011 ndl. and entrepreneurs to put theoir rnoney IJ.Ji'H'! r· c,~ 1-. h E! i. r· m o 1 J 1-. h ·i s c.Hl d p u l: ·-L 1:. into the development of thois Pr·otJ.i ncr'!, 1 •Jnd ~~~,,~ bc~J.i .c,~vc,~ thdl.:. We be b (:! J -j. (,' I) (:) thE:'re No. ~;6 I.: he for opporl:unil:y ~;hould thE:~ NewfoundJ.and 1~3052

entrepreneur to now have investment in the Province investiTIE!nt in th· .is company. 'Gi .VE:~ 111or·c~ c:on~dd(~l"a t:i on t.o local input certa"inly,' some c~nd So, l:h ·i_ s but prc~r·haps ·i·:hE:' rnosl: irnp<H'U\1'11: l:hing, 1'-11" . Speaker, 'Give (:1Xtr·a cons:i.cifH'r.t l . ..i.on l:o 'i:hrc~ b i.ds, ;~nd ther·e may be sev<H'al, that offer SorliE! job leVCc1l prol:rc1CI-.Jon .' 1 dill not s11gges l:'i.ng l.h.is HOIISO. say -that bE:'Cduse ther·e ai"E! 4-00 jobs l~ her· e n OIAJ, you h i'l v o. i: o lrlc:~ ·i_ n t i:l·i. n 400 jobs. That is not tAJhcl t it says.

Bcc1cause any cornpi'lny, even Tert"a Nova Tel, might, fr·om timE! to t.irne, i.ncreasE:1 or rl e cr'tH:ls:~ staff. We cannot 1imit that. But Lue have to say' I c·Lvt' extra IAJWLght CN and federal government,' because r·ea1ly thai :. is L•Jhat WE! ar'E:' saying, 'to the bids that guar·ani:eE-~ a cer-te:dn l.E:wel of jobs that do not involve a big job loss.' 3 o , M r' . S p Cc1 a I< e r , v E! r y s :i. 1n p l y , l: h i'l t is the reason for presenting this r'C'!SOJuti.on.

I thank hon. rnc,1rllber''; for gJving leave to allow this rnol:i.on t:o bcc1 pr·o.sr,1n'I:E:1d i.'tnd l <"llso thank t.hem for· thE:1ir support . SGrilf. 1·101\J. r'IEMBfRS : 1-i(:'dl", hear! MR. FFNWJCK : Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : The han. the member for Menihek . MR. FENWICK : Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. It ·Ls unfor·tunate th .i.s .is as good a resolution as we can put tog e thE! r c o n s i. de r· L n g t h a t. , 1 think, the first position of this government and of lhe Opposition parties and of the LAJhole ProvincE! sho1tld have I:HH:!n l'.hc,~ sb'ltus q110. I. 3053 Jun<~ 15, 1988 Vol XI..

The status quo, in my opinion, would pr'OlJJ.dc,, ·l~he b!:1!> t·. d~~gr'(:!~1 oF serviCE!, since it is a long (~ s h"lb J.-i. s ~H:1d opf'!f'i'l Lor· . I 1: IAJOU ld also have giVE!n the grE!al:est job S E' C IIi" ·j_ 1·. y , S i. rl C (:1 i. l: "i_ S II 1'1 l j_ k (,~ l. y i_ l'l any of the scenarios chosen l'.he n111rtber· of job~; IAJh--i.ch r::tr'C'! curr·~~nt.:1y there will remain. One of the pt"oblems tAlE! haVE!, Mt". S p (~ i'l k e r· , IALL 1: h t h -;_ s ·i_ s , 'l e l'.: us think of the two possib1e conlpE!-1-i .Lors I•Jh 'i.c::h I•Jould confor·m l:o this.

One would be Newfoundland Telephone, ctnd Ne~foundland TelephonE!, obvious1y, if it dOE!S p"i.ck up t.his pi:H'ticular operat :.Lon will be very much interested in i n t E! g r· a 1: i. n 9 ·.i. t IAJ i. t. h i. t s g r ·i. d l: h a t it already has and that will mean, Mr. · Speaki::1r, ~~JE! cca1 probably look at the annihilation of a lot of th(~ headqur.tr·l·.er sli:~f-f :in Gander, because there is a different i.'-1 d 111"i. n i. s -1: r a t i o n UH;! r c'! .

T h e r· o :i s a personnel office, a purchasing o F f i c e , ·t·. h e r· ~1 i. s a l a b o u r· r<:~lations, there is a IAJhoJe bunch of peoph1 HH:'Inc;! i·hdl". clc'!dr'l.y any corporation rationale about the ~~~;:~y ·i.l: IJJOIIlrl c·lo Hl'i.ngs IAJOIIl.d l::r·y to eliminate them. fH I. he S <'lHif-~ l'..:i.rne, l U'l"i.nk anybody who has looked . at the nurnb<:'r' of i\lr:'IJJf 011 ndl<'lnd Te lt' phone tr·u c k s going ar·ound the Pr·ovinC(:1, and the T l'! In r· d 1\J 0

l) i:l T e J. t r· 1.1 r; k s ' L h t11j IAJ"i. 11 see very oftE!n they cross. They i'l r e go .i. n o..:J 'i. n rl i F f !:'! r· e n t d i. r· c->. c L j_ o n s , and obviously there will be an el"lrn:i.nc:d :·i.on of jobs ·i.n t.ha t: di"E:!aS at> IAJ(:1ll . On this basis, if Newfoundland Tel t d k t:! s :l +: o v e r· , 1 a rn a f r a ·L d lAJ e tAl :i. ll see a considerablE! number of job losses. We do know they area bidding on it, we do know they are i:ln -Lnl(=•res-1-:E~d I:J·idder· bl~causE!, quite frankly, th(:~Y told lrtE! that SC:1V(-'!Ind]. yedr'~' ago, l::hdt. Lhey IAJE~r·e No. 56 R30 1~3

'i.ni::E:~rl~sl ··.co~d assets. i. n pi. c b ng 11p 1: hE! S E:~ The:~ other pos stble entreprenE:~ur I undcr·sl:and 1~J01.1ld pr·obably qualify as well would be that of our fr·:ic.;!nd IAJho 01~.ms NEHAJfoundland Capital Corporation, which is Harr·y SteE:~le. Even though h~:! rnay have a different approach and may qua1 Lfy as an locr.~l <.;!n Lrepr'EHWtH', although it is questtonable now cons-id~o~r· i.ng hf:~ l. i.vc:!s -Ln 1\lov;'l Scotia most of thE:~ time, let us th.ink Clbotll ·i.t fr·orn h:is P\::ll"SPE:~C LivE:~ .

T f hP i. s goi.ng t-.o pdy .t he i:op tlolJa1" fo1~ it, and obv·..i.ously CN is gc.dng t.o I~J<·lnt io gr.~l· . lop do ll iH' for· i +, thE:~n all thee~ monE!Y hE:! i.njec:l: s ."i.nl:o l·.hE:~ c:ornp.'\ny l:o put" chase it rnust aJ so be hand] E!d, 1r111s 1-. be f-i.ndnCE!d. 1-lr,~ ITIIIS"l.: bor·r·o1'1 for :it, ht':~ rnust: P~'-~Y thE:~ inter·E:~st on i.l:, i:l.ncl hE:~ n111 s 1: gr,! l: some s or· l: of r'E:d: ur·n of the money ther·e. Mr.

Sp~'!dkc:H', 1-:hE:!rro~ is only t··.I,JO ways to do it, as far as I arn s C:~ ~;;! . 0 n C:1 "i. s -1.: o i n c r· e a s e y o u r r·evC:~nue and the other is to decr'C:1clse your· costs . When yotl decrease costs you usually lay off people and when you increclse revenue, that means higher telephone rates for the subscribers, neither of u1hich arE! particularly Cltl-:raclive altE:1rnativc::~s, but seern to be.;! the th i.ngs uJe hc~ve.

The f-:i .n1:1l. rer:lson 1 ~~J<Hli-.E!d to TIIE:HI'l--.:ion :is, s:ince J do supporl: t:.hE! i.d1::1a L:o ndn i.rniLt1 LI'Ho' job loss as much as poss:ible, and I would Jike i·.o sc,~co~ Rll. ol:hC:1r' l:hi.ngs bto'·ing E:1 q U Cl] 1 Hli:d. j t I:H.;! OlAirl (:1 d lJ.J:i t h j 11 t h (o1 PrOlJincc-:1 i.l:sc~lf, ·Ulf! f;,,c:1: of U11~ rncd .ter· :i.s the r·c-:1c.tson lAJe arc :1 :in l·. h :i. ~; f ·i_ X -i. S b 0 C.~ II S C:'

l) f r'l n ideoJ.og:icr..tl str·a:ight..jackE!t that l.: h e M 111 r CHl ,,1 y 9 o lJ e r· i'l me n -t: :i. s i n , L30S4 June 15, 1988 Vol XL I~) h j, C h h i'l S 1·: 0 l. d C ~-J l. 0 rl i. l) (,1 S 1". i. t.

S (c1 l. f of its non-transportation, or :its non-r·ai.-IIAJdY aSS('d .:s and thr:~t is ·the reason IAJE:1 end up with a s:it.uation IJ.Jhi.ch w"i.J.l do onE:' of 1::tAJO l~hinqs, either cost these subscribers rnor'E! rnonc:'Y or cosl <.i l.o t: of I: he long-term employees their jobs, either of which are not alternatives that I push for and aJ"r~ "-' r~::1sul .·t-. of t:ht'! k i.nd of Tor·y thinking L~Je gE!t tn OttatAJa.

It is o n l. y r· E! f J. l~ c t.: ~~ d l. o d s rn ;;t 1 1. d Co1 g r· (! e here, luckily, and fol"tunat.E!Ty, l.c-:~l-. 11~; hopr:~ ·i.l: dtH!S nol· ~ predominatE!. l h d n k y o 11 , lJ e r"J 11111 c h , M r . S p ~~a k e r· . MR. BAI~l~ETT : M1~. Spec:'lkel". MR . SPEAKfR : The,~ hon. Lhe r.lli n :i. s l: e r· uf OeveJ.oprnent. MR. BARRETT: Mr . Speaker·, 1.1.Je on this side at"E! lJer y pl.t::1i:lsed t:.o !lLippor·l-. l::he re so lution that has beE!n moVE!d by UHo' rn ern I:HH' f o r· G and !::1 ;n .

I n r· e ad -L n g the content of thE! rE:lsolution, I really cannot see anything with which wE~ would object. I would, I th i.nk, and I should, pr·obably rnake sorne comments as to sorne of thE~ obs<~r-vi:l ·l··.:ions t:hco1 Jrtetnb('!r for GandE~r, and more subsequently thE! member for Meni.hek, made as it related to the sensittvities and l:hc,~ i.ssues Stll"rotHlcl'i.ng thJs parU .cular sale. I thin k, first of all, uJe ha ve to r.lSS ttul e , hi'l lJt ·~ Ll) b~' i;llAii'\re , and have to accep t, th e righ t of a cor por aH .on to dj .ves ·l·. itsel f of its holding s in any jurisdi ctio n.

T do not 1-.iri .nk, t•Je, e1:.; a government, can force anybody to d o d n y l: h "i. n g l·. h 1e1 y cl o no l.: l.o~Ji:l n -1.: .i n terms of a commercial operation. No. 56 R30S4

T do sh~re the concerns of the member opposite as it relates to r;.Jho "li.~I<E:!S OI.HH' i.:hi.s pr·ojecl- ..

Tl: was not too many years ago when thi~; govl:!r'flln(HJL bE:~can1e ernbroi .l.1~rl J.n Cl rathE:~In dE:~Jicate sil:uation i.niJOl.IJ i ng l.ho rnemb1 ,H' 1 s OIJ-Jn cornruurrJ . ty, and tha ·l: tJ.Jas tJ.Ji t.h r'E!Spect to i·.he r'C'!Iltou,:qJ. of 1::;'\~;l:c:~r·n Pl"ovi.ncidJ ()-.i.r·t;.rays from 1\](~IJ-Jfortndl.Hnd r.tnd r;··om c;dncll;~r· I d rnove which thJs government, and Lhe peopl.r.:~ '"1ho t.o~Jerc:~ a par·!: oF l·.h :i. ~; govE~rnment c~t t:I·H:' t:ime, expressed v-i .ell.JS of i·.:ot-.al. di.scon t 1:~nL OVI:~r·, but yet an inability to respond in any kind of an effec~ive way.

To allow a cUITipany llJh ·-Lch 1~.Ji'lS ger·minated in this Province, that r· E'! c e 'L v e:~ d c o n t i n u o u s f i. n d n c J. i:1l support from this Province, to bE! taken over and then totally removed from the scene, with the exception oF landings i.n l::hi.s ProvincE! - and that is only bc.;!caust:~ i.t is good bus'i.rws~; ·

h) do it.. It is certainly not because HH :H'E>. i.s i:lny gr'er.tt dc:~s ·i r'f:' l ... o E:~mpJ oy Newfound]anders or to prolJ i.de somE:~ r·eturn on !-.he irrvc.;!stnl(:~nt. that IAJas madE! by this Pro lJ 'i. n c (~ ·i.n·l: o Uv1 l: p d r 1-.i c: 1 1 l a r· p1noject:. T agree, on th:is p <'1 r 1: i. c ul '" r· i. s :; 1 1 c~ , IAJ c:! h i'1'J e l: o b 1:! ~;c,~nsiUve to that same thing happE!ni .ng hr.: ~l"E:'. ( f 1-h c'! s arne p P. o p l. €:~ ;:u· P. · i. n lJ o 1. 1 H:' d , then we hNve to be concerned.

J11:>l: ~H~C<'tiiSr.:~ H : is i:1nOUlr:!r rl•.HfH:~ ·:idE>.ntif tcat-Jon does not- mean to so:1y the same'! phi.J.osophy doH~; nol : lleCt~ssar·iJy exist, that there c o r1l. d i. n d (:H:! d b t~ L h e E>.r' o s i o n F r· om this Pr·ovince and from that: COHHrrunity of so1ne highly t.echni cal and highly qualified people, to rnove the:~m to some~ oth,.;!r centtH' under the pretext that it will, in ft:tc-1:, pn)V-LdE:~ a rnor'E! c->.q1ri. Labl.C'! operation or a more cost-effective operat.'i.on. We'! arc:! Vl'!r'y concc:!r'n~::~rl 1..3055 June 15, 1988 Vo1 XL ~bout that hctppening .

I hope Lht~ Tfli:ll'l opposi.l.:e, and -thE! gentleml':~n opposite, rE!Cognize that noi: only i:trt,~ thE:~ pli:·1Y<H'S Lhere that might effoct the'!

E!li.m:inal::'.ion of !;CHill-'! compei-. 'i.l'i.on i.n 1-:he p I''() v :i n c e I l:liJ ·(~ t h t~ In e i s a 1 s 0 t h c:d: 1~1.1 -:!f(ll'!rl\: IAJhich ha~; l·.o bH dddr<~SSE!C~ as ·to t.he guarantees IAJh-.i.ch can bE! g ·i IJ e i'l L o 1: h i. ~; c o 1 nrnr 1 n i l: y i:1 n d 1·:. o this Province so that what is Lher·c~ I ;"el'fld ins 1-.!·wr ·r:!' rrga 'i.n I T agJ"E!E:' tArith hilT! tJ.Jho1E~hE•at"t:c:!ciJ.y, it: doe s no l-. 1 fll :~ d n c:! lJ I::! r' y s i n g -1. l:~ , specific position.

As to this garbagE! thE! hon. membE•r 1-o r· M (~ n-i l·w k g e l s o n 1.1.1 .it:: h , 1.1.1 h a t else would you expect from him? He~ d<H'!S not IAJ<.Hll-'. dny entrepreneurship in the Province anyt..~Jay! So, IAJhat else IJ-Jould you expect? To suggest a corporation in this di:1Y and ag(~ hRs not. St:~nsi.t.::i.v:i.ty about human resources is dbsol.r .ttE~J.y grH'bi:19P! And for· lri.m to be able to stand up and say l·.hal ·. in Lh i.s Ho11se, r.lnch<.~llc '!ngE:~d, is unthinkable, absolutely 11 n l: h i .n k "'b l t:~ ! [ C

C) I 11. d C i. h~ r rH' l'fiCH' ('~ C CH' p 0 r• a l:.':i. 0 r1 ~~ in this Provine!':' that addr'E•ss Uli:lt -i.~;~;rlr-:! Uli:Hl he C·'lil s r1ggust t:o lrl€:~ qu<-.lsi opelnat.ions of a ~;ociaJ.i.st ndl .lir'e r.ll ·dch do U ·H~ so: :\IIIE! t·:hj _ng, ··i.n an honourable fashion, e1nd it is cl o n c:~ For' ·1 ... hE! b <:~ n c,~ f :i L of 1:·. hE! workers, of the people who work in ·L h o s e j o b s , a n cl for t·: h o s E! cornpaniE:~s.

You cannot sLight, in one rE!rTial"k, All. oF l:.he pr·i.vatC:! sector· i.n !::his Province by saying they do not car·E:~ abou-t. hurna n res our' C('! s bE! cause the success of every company is bas( ;~ d on t. h c:~ h u rn<.·1 n r· c.;! so rJ r· c t' s they have within their corporations . Absolute garbage! No. 56 R3055

:.:t T c ''~ r t a :i. n l. y d o i:\ g r E:~ '~ ~~~ e:~ d o 1·1 a 1; e i: o be con:.c:ientlous, c:~nd, :if at all p o s s t b J. l:! , 1~1 E! h ;:~ 1; e -1: o :i. n t <:~ r· j e r: L: some:~ rev:iew 01n be et paint of the:~ d i s p o s it i. o n o F +.: h ·-L s i" c,~ s o u r c e . l +-. is most important, the retention of t.hA netAJ technology i:hat r::'xi .s+ :s within that corporation; the retention of the management capability and su pervisory ca pabil it y; the posi ti.ons oF l:l1e workers ; the positions of th os e peo ple who are in vo lve d Ln computer· analysis; and other high tec h jobs !:hat c01J ld v ~r y well be lost to that community.

MR. ~>Pt:AKER: 0 t'· cl e:~ t" , p 1 e as e ! MR. BARRF~TT :. Mr·. SpE:~aker, Lhi.s side r·r:~~;oJ ution. in summation, we to -1-.aJ.l.y Sljppor·t T h r'l n k y ()II \) 0. r· y HJI ' c h . SOrJJF ~ION. MFMBF:RS: H c,~ i:\ r· , h e a l" ! Mf~. SPI.:':AI<.F:I~: ls t h<:' House ready for qut~s tion? on t·. hf~ thE! I s l t t h E:' p 1. e a s u r· e o F t h e H o 1.1 s (~ t o adopt the motion? All those in favour please scly, uayeu. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Aye. 1'-1R . SPEAKFR: Those against, 11 nay 11 • Carried unanimously. MR. TULK: rJJ r· ' s p (:~ r'l k e r ' r.JJ I~ . ~3 P F.

A K ~~ I? : The;! hon. ·tl'w membc->.l" for· Fogo . I .:10 56 J1me 1.5, 1.9138 lJol. XL. ri!R. Tl.ll.l<: I wonder :i.f the han. gentleman the jou~nal I~JOlil.rl show consr->.nL that LO hi"JIH~ indE~ed tln<:'lnJ.nJous cl~~cJs··i.on. AN HON. MEMBER: It was unanimous . MR. TULK: it was a But it will not show unless we have a Division. MR. SIMMS : I wonder hoi/J lhH hon. I'IIC"!I'Ilb<J.r' for Menihek vo'lE!d. MR. SIMMONS : Both ways . r.JJR. TUI_K: Roth ways, as usual . Private Members' Day MR.

SPEAKFR: Tlri s i.s Pr "i.Vi'll:c :' r"lerni:H:!r ~; I Dr :·lY' ThE! debatE! was adj our· ned by thE! hon. 1--. h <:' Mi. n i. s i ·. c;! r o F DE:~ v e l. o p 1 n E'! n l:: IAJ h u has four minutes left. MR. BARRETT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think, in my summation as a r· (:' s u l. l: o f Uw lf1 o t .. i o n o n t h t~ 0 r· d f'! r Paper from my hon . colleague, thE! me111ber· for !:)t. John's Ncn·th (Mr. J . Carter·), as it re!latE!S to sci .t:!ncc~ i.~nd technology i'lnd LhE! importance that has to this fl r· 0 V -j 11 C -~ , T. lA I 0 I I J. d d g i'l i rl J.

"i. k 8 t. 0 highlight that the principle of IMhi:l.i: wn i.H'e debating ht :!rf?. "i.s not Sprung. the principle of what we <'I r· E:1 d C"! b a Lin 9 h <-:' r· 1-'! -:i. s l: h 1::~ d t. t .it u de of mE!ITlbE!rs opposite as it rr:~1.c:ttE!S ·l:o ·I". he dciiJ<:HlCI::Hnt=!n l.: of· s ci .PncE:! dnd technology in l::his Proui ncE! . That i. :; 1. h ~-' ·i. :; c; 11 e . ·r h r:1 r· e i. s no doubt in my mind but that is the issue . 1\Jo. SG I~ 3 0 56

To follow through on the perceptions that are certainly being formulated as a result of t.he cormnAnts Frorn that s:i.de:' of UH:!

House on this particular subject, I h <.~ v l' r· e c E:d tJ e d q 1 1i. l: c~ d n 1 1 rn b E! r o f comments from outside this House d bout 1--. he:1 con c (~r· n s oF ·HH:' a c iHI t:!rlli. c cornrnun:i t·:y, about t.he concerns of i. h () t e r'l c h t:' r· s ·; n o 11 r· i. n s ·I· i 1::11 l: 'i. on~; , :i. n o Ul'' hi g h s c h o o J s , abo u t t: h e:1 concer·w ; ror· l:h8 rlll:llr'r :' of i.hc~ ch:iJdi"C::HI of rliOSE~ lA.IhO iH'f;' p r (~ s e n l· .. , y i. n h ·i t!J h •; c h o o l ~~kHl 1: ·i n g l.o underlctke, or g:iv:ing thoughts 1: o c d r' {~ (!

In s i. n i· h r:1 9 o n e r· i'1 J. s c 'i. l'! n c e !; pr·ogr<:ti'n; CcH'E~EH'S j n ruedj caJ I" n s e "' r r: h , or· cdr· e e r· s ·i. n nl•~ r ·i. n e b:i.ology, or in ftsheries t.echnologi .~::1s, or· :i.n campti hH' assisted design or computer dssis~ed engi.neer. Lng, or tn satellite imagery analysis, or any of !:he:! high b~ch stuFf. Accor·di.ng to those opposite, Mr. SpE!aker, they should for ·get Clbout .i.i: in Newfoundland. They should forget about i. t and live;! Ln Ne1~Jfo1mdldnd, :i-t: is not an issue. Fortunately, they are not the governing body in this Province.

Fortunately, this government is cornmi.ttecl l:o neiAJ :i.ni .l:i .a1:itH'S, i':o nc;HAJ ideoJogies, 'l:o neL1.J technology, cormni .th :~d i:o ensltr· ·ing l:hcd: ntH:r·y o p p o l'"t u n :i t y e x i s t s f o I" t h E:1 y o u n g p o o p l. e o f L h 'i. :; P r o tJ'i , n c C! 1: o j1west.::i .gate, to b~~come pc-.H 't of, to t'! n l. · i. !d: i. n , L o E: rH' o ll . · i n , L o subs c r· i b f.'! to s c i en c e and onginE:~E:r··i .ng, br:~Cr~ll:;c~ H·. ·i:; on lol-lr:-11'. bas:is that th:is Pr·ov:incc:! tAJj 11 g r· Cli~J , o n H1<.~ t b ''' s ·i ~; -i. s U·H :1 . s t-r- eng -l. h of ·t hi s P r· o v i n c e .

We know tAle havt~ ac comrnoda tE:1d and tn thls d C C Lllnlll . r:l b~ d g1ne:~at deal of academic Cl gr·eat decll of capabiJ.:ity, thernselVE!S techno1ogies. and they in L30S7 June 15, 1988 Pr•c)l)ince r'\ capab:ili ty, e:' ng ·.i. n E~ er· ~i. ng have proven pr·oduc i.ng Uol XL I suppose the Leader of the Opposition and some of his coJ.leagues will now write the President of ~he University and suggest t.o him that it ts a wholE• b 1 1 n c h o f g a r· b d g t'! ·i: o b o c o n s -:L d t'! r· t n CJ thE! continuation of the Seabright co q> o ~~"' i ·. "i, o n .

T h.~ l. ·i t·· :'i. ~~ a lAJ h o 1 E! bunch of gar·bage, , that t:hey should be adtJr'lnCi .n<::J Hll:1 Oce<Hl 1 ~; 2000 Concept for the advancement of i:~~~:hnology ..-~nd r-c~ S E!drch 'in ·l:h·i.s P I" o v i n c e , b c,~ c a u s e ·Uw y cl o n o t 1 :i k E! I !1 H s h i-l p

t) or· I· h l'! co 1 o t 1 r· o F a cucumber, a technology whi ch, con t r· <'1 r· lJ L o 1: h t'! i r· bel . t ('! f or· 1·.: h a 1~. they do not wan t to adrn'it to, is h'i gh h)chnology, h~i.gh i"r:'chnol.oqy! :'l n d 1~1 h cli: c ''' n happen r:1 n d E'! v o 1 v e a r o u 11 d t h a t t e c h n o 1 o g y :i 11 t o o t i·w In product development, all for the benefit of the peo ·pJ.e of this P r· o tri. n c t:'? Why doE:~ s l: h :is particular project have to, in t:he'i.r· v·i.E!IAJ, pr·ove itself economically before it even gets stur ·l':f:~d?

Evr'!t'Y dc.·<Y Lh <-?.Y support initiatiVE!S by this goVE!rnrnen-t: to 'i.nvr,1st·: ndllions of clol.l.ar·s Lnt.o othE!r projects 1Alhich cannot proVE! l:hHHJSe:~lVC:~S I::'COnOill-i.cally -Ln l::ht-?. first year of opE:H'aU .on, but for s o 1 n e r· e i'\ s on c 1 1 c 11111 b n r· s h i't v l'! t. o . Co lormet s y sterns do not havE! to, h lJ d r· o 1:)"' .. , l. :; d o no 1-. h d lJC'! t. o , g a n g batE!rS do not have to, CAD Syst.c;!rns do nol: hdtJP 1-.o, b11l: CIICI Jtllbers hi.'!Vl :! to. Why is lhe,~e a d~i fferencc:1? 8 (:~ C .:-111 ') C'! i. 1: "i, S -j 1'1 o:•l h :i, g h l Y I) -L S :i_ b J. (;!

Jocat:ion, it glotJ.Js in thE! n:ight. lhuy do nol : llndc,H·si -.<.'lnd i.l-, but becc-lUSE:~ it is out thei"E:' they can p 0 -j 1'1 1: Uw :i. r· r i. n 9 C'! r' 1: 0 ·j 1-. a n d t h (:' y can get l:he med-ia all upLight and c~ll (~XC'i .l:ed ;'lbOIIl'. i.-1:, dnd I arn nol· .: sure why. Yet, it is something l': h i:l t i. s h -L g h l y tJ t s i. b l c:1 . ~) o e v c:: n the small minds, I suppoSE!, havE: l:o hi :lVE:~ sonleth ·i.ng IAJil:h IAJhj_ch t:o germinate a thought to k~~ep thE!rn amuse:~d for a per-i.od of t.ilfiE! . No. 56 R3057

{)1\J IWN. MFMfll':R : We need hydr~opord cs, l"ight? Ml~ . IJARRFTT : We rw l'! d h y d r· o p o n :i. c s , '~H:' n r,, (:' d everythJng we c~n get our hands on t:hdi.: ··i.S I'WIM i:c:1c: hnol.ogy iHlCI PI"Ovides a basis of interE!St for Lht:! h:lghl. y tr.~ c hni. Cd l Ci~pab~i_ J·i. t y which exists, and which we are t. r· y i. n g t. o d E~ v e l o p i_ n t:: h :i. s Province. And it i.s not at t..uhat cost. If lAIC-?. can s~~E! s:i.gnif-i.cant private sector investment to a company , an idea, then t th .i.nl< 'l.t: is incumbent upon us to support it i.n this Prov ince.

We do nol: hcwe to be. as I said la st week, within f i f t y nri .l e s <) f t. he c i. I-. y of Torot1to. or Ottawa, in order to P<:trU .c-J .pa te .~nd bt.'l d pi:lrt of l:he high tech com mun it y. We can do thr.t l~ i.n Nl'.~hlfounrll .. 'lnd . I 1: ·i.s unfortunate. indeed, that we C:~l'lrlOI : penei :rat :e l:he IO'i.nrl!; or rnember·s opposj te to recognize that l:hi .:>, al.ong wi H1 o l·.hcr· fH'oj 0« : I:!;, do. j n fact, cortt rj bute sj .gnj .fi .c:anl.l y l:o thi .s rri)IJ'i nc:<~ . SOMr:: HON. MEMBF:R~>: H(-?.cir', l1ear! MR. SPEAKFR: The hon. the I.Hddt~r · of 'i':he Opposition . MR.

Wf:L.LS: M r· . S p e cl k e r , l h d v <~ 9 r· (~ Cl l~. difficuJty believing that I hE!ard come from that hon. member whRt he said the last day he spoke and today , b u 1: I cui_ l.l d ~~a 1 w"i. 1·. h t:: haL a Jittle later. First, a few comments about the r~~solut i.on i.Lse 'lf. Bast=!d on ·LhE:1 past performance of the hon. mc,~mbt1r' fo1" St.

John 1 s 1\Jor·th, 1~1ho frequently stands in this House, l".ong11n ·"i.n ... c~wt:!!<, no do1tbl ., .~nd makes aJJ sor·t.s of out.Jand'ish c OIIJTO(:Hll: <; c.Hl!:l :; t·. r:l (:(.)TJJ('! n l·. s I p .u ·· L '1. y L 0 1.30S8 June ] 1;, 1988 Vol XI . pr'c)t;oko ·i.nl :er•e:;l :, p.:~r·: :ly i:o h·:lVC -:'! a bit of fun , and partly for God k l'1 01.u s llll·H't t r· e r.l s o n , h u t , nev ertheless, tha ·t is his normal a p p r· o r.l c h and 1 i· h t n k i-\ 11 h on . rnernbers understand it.

But I have no rl o u b 1: h <·) i. s 9 rea t 1. y r 1.1 l n 9 t: he day he put on the OrdE!r PapE!r a r·esoJut'ion i:o con1111end t.he government fot" Sprung and alJow this debate to take pJ~ce. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. WELLS: r i·H~ h o n . rn e Ill b E~ r· i. s o n r:! o F ·1 ... i·w s e trUE! contrarians IAiho l:ikE!S to p r 0 v (l k (~ r:~ l. ·i. -1·. L l. (:! c 0 n t r· 0 v H r· s y .

H E! does it very effE!CtivE•1y and mo st 0 f" ll ~:: II l'l ci (:~ r• S 1: a l'l d ·j l:: 1:\ rl cl ci () l'l 0 t. atl:ribute any ill-1At:i11 to him as c:• r·esul .l·.. ~.Jf:~lH11n·l·.hc,1l.os s, I am g1natefuJ to him fol" PI"OViding us 111'i.1'.h Uds opporl·.11ni.t.y, Mr·. Speaker. I do not k noL"J what thE! t:1>,plandl ··i.on for· Lhc,1 i"e<;ol111'.i.on i.s.

Th1~ f"'H~ ,;onr.er·ncd ·i.s Dbt; i.o11sl.y l:oo knowJedgeahJe to put it forward seril)llsl.y, bu l-. 1'1-10 re~ol11l ·i.on does invite comment on the government's perfor·m.::~nc:e:~ iilnd i.ntJolvernen+: i.n i:he SpJ"ung project; it invites the House l.o go on recor·d as commending the government for en t 1::'! d. n g i. n 1: o 1: hi . s pro j e c t . Now that gives us the opportunity to ex pre$ s $ i.J 'l ctH'e 1 y our· opi ni.o n of the government 1 s involvement in thi.s proj ~ct . We have des cr i.bed it as a madcap scheme, and perhaps i': h c:~ 1: i. :; a v t~ r y s L g n i f i c a n t und erstatement.

There are probably other de$crlptions that might be more accurate, but having descri .becl i.l: i:lS t:hi"'i :, T th-ink IJ.Je had to be prepared to justify that descrJ .pl.i .on · nol : i:o the pi-i!Op1e of this Province, Mr . Speaker. bc ~cau:;e l.hey f:ll n~·-"c:IY Lh :i.nk t he~t. Everywhere you go this project is .:~ j o k e . ·u. ·i. s U11~ j o k e no I; of 1: he No. 56 R3058

year, -it ·is perhaps thE! joke of the century. Everybody is laughing at it. Everybody has cl srni1e on their face big enough to take cil cucutnbc:!r' stdc-:n.uays, Hl~!Y <H'l':! laughing so hard at it. So is the r·es·l: oF Cancu:J,:'l, <Hlcl thai: i.~; unfortunate. If they are not laughing e1L us, Lh~) pc,~opl.E! in 1\Jovd Scotia are mad at us. MR. PATTFI~~30N : Thc:!y <:H'c,~ 'l.diJgh i ng '" L your· bi.g S i:l J Cll'' y I-ll h EHI t J·w f E! U E:! I" a J p a I~ t y :i S br ·o kc~ Rnd has Lo go begl_:ri ng ·in l.h e streets (inaudible). MR. WfLL~>: rhghL. T t i s d "i.

F i~ i c 11 ~I 1: 1-. o u n c:l C'! r s L"' n cl , r.Jfr· . SpE:~aker, how c. government with any 1 o lJ E~ l o F i. n 1: <-:! ll. :i. g r~ n c c,~ IJJ .L L 11 i. n -L l: 1-lJOuld get involved in this kind of mad scheme . Why 1:ht:!y got :i nvolvE:1d: PeoplE! across the P r o v l. n c e a r· e a s k oi. n g c o n s t a n 1-: 1. y ·- Mr. Speaker, would you s~op the dull roar, the unintelligent noise 1n the House? MR. SPEAKER: Or·dc,1r, please! If the hon . membE!r wishes to ~;pe<:lk, -u=- hr~ JJJoul.d ~dl: :i.n hi .s 01~m sec.t or stand on a point of o~der, T I~JOII.Ic:l bE:~ HIOI"C:!

Lhi'ln pJc,1r'I~;E!d l:o r· C-! c o g n :i n,H~ !1 :i rn . MR . Pf.HTFRSON : r C.;! ll I I S •:l b

C) I I i ·. '[:hI::! h 0 C k C'! y 1.he b<~t ·l· ei"Y pl<:lnt, th<:1 plant (indud tble) . MR. SPt:.AKFR : Ot"deln, pleaS€:1! AN HON. MF.:MBEI~ : Nctrn<,1 h:irn! MR. WFLI..S : L3059 June,~ IS, 1988 s l. i c k ~; • r·ubber Vu 1. XI _ M r· . S p e a k c·?. r , T s e a r· c h f o r Cl logical explanation for this proposal, ·Ul'i.s madcap sdH:11rlE! 1-lle are dealing with at the moment, dnd thl,~ only t:hi.ng T can th~ink of is that last: year, this time, IAJhE!n I: he~ Cr'lnacla/Fr·anc<:~ disputE:' IJ.Jds on, the goVE!rnmE:~nt I;.Jas all r·eady and c h d r· g E! d 1.1 r L o g o ·i. n +: o a n election.

They thought they had a c "'11 s t:~ 1: h <-1 L I•IO 11l. d C·} rw . b J. e -1:. h ~'! 1r1 t. o 1-lJrap a [lag al~ound lhE•rnSE!lVE!S ancl c h i:l r' g t,~ f o r· 1: h a 11 d s d v P Newfoundland, and they needed ~;ornt11:h ·ing c,1·Jse Logo IAdl ··.h "i.L. A] ong carne Spr·ung, and thE!Y j umpE!d r!tl·. ·ii:. Thr:! co1nrnr:!ni·.~; of 1-:hc,~ hon. Min] ster· of r~ur·al, Agr·icultuJ"E! and 1\J or· -1: h c-) r· n I)(! 1.1

c) l. o p rn <'! n 1-. ( M r . P OI.;,J P r·) last February, when he said s p (,~ c i r i. c ·~ l. l. lj ' I ( ; 0 l) ('! r· n rn E:! n ·i ·. d i. cl n

l) l: have timE! to get i.nto a 1-eds"i.b-i .l.i.J-.y ~;l:t1dy lhai·: ~~Jo1 .1ld b~:::~ all encompassing, which would take ··inlo dCcouni": c-)VE!I"Y asp<'!Ct of thE! business itself, like how much pr·oduct i.on and u.th~:H'e ·i.t t;.tould be sold. 11 Why djd thE!Y not hdve t.·.i.me? Wer ·e t.hf: ~ y ru s hi. ng :into <9. n election? Is that what prompted th~::nn l:o r·ush at i.t? ThE?.rE! :.i.s no other sensible explanation; e v e r· y i.Jl'i. n g s r:1 E~ m s l: o p o i. n 1-. .:L n t: 1·1 d t. general direction . That is why i·.hc,1y IAJE!nt d+ .: .i.t IAJhf :!n Lhc,'Y cJ·id, when you take into account, Mr.

Spe~aker, 'l':he1 Fac+ : l·hdt the-:! d;:,ly before he made the announcement i h c,~ P r· c~ rn i.e r· I;.J r· o u ,~ l: h (,~ Fed e r· a 1 MinisLer of Agriculture (John lrJ i s Eo~) a:; k ·i n g h i . rn for· i. n f o nn;:~ 1-. i on on hydroponics, for the i.nfonn<'li .·i.on LhHy h•we dlJd i.l.dbJ .e . H€:1 d:i.d not have the knot~JJ.edgE! to j IJdgl ~ ·iJ ., yc,, i HH'! lH!r·y rwxt dRy, IJJjthout the i.nformi'.l'l:.ion, hE! J"ushes "i. n l o '" n a n n c)ll n c erne n i: . ill! h y ? Why did the rn:i.n:ishH' say tht'Y d:id not hdve l""ime to do (~ pr 'O per· study and a proper assessment?

They cornrni .i·:Led rn:i.llions and milLi.ons of taxpayers 1 dollars to it, and thE! No. !;)6 R3059

i:L iHHIOLHICC;!ment 1.uas rnadc-:"!, obvtous1 y, For· poli.~:i.c:i :d flllr'pos,,~s. Th','Y g,) ·f: "l':hc,nnseJ VE~s into it cHld then thBy c o 1 1l. cl n o t·: c,' x i.: t' · i. c ,:·1 I' e. l h t'~ rn !; E:~ l. tJ ,,~ s · i. n ar1y lc:i nd of a sensible LAJay, and i·: hE:~ y h ~~ tJ ('! b ,,, e n car r· y ·i. n 9 o 1.1 1: d ruass:i VE:~ cover· ---up Ewer since. That --i. s •~ s s c,1 n L :i_ i.'l. 1 l.y 1..11 h o-1.

I: h '' :; b C:' C'! n go ·i n g on, a massivE:~ covE~ln·-up, pr·etending l·.:hat: thi_s i.s a so11nd tH~ntiJi"<:~ 111hen everybody in this Province knows lhc ,~ d ·i.ffer·f~ncc,~, ovc,,r·ybody, including rnos l~- of the rn<:~rnbers si.t.f ~ ing on the govc,H'rllnPnt: ~del''!, 1 suspect. MR. PATTERSON: A point of order, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : Order, please! A poi.nf·: of order, H1e hon ·. i·:he rnernber for Placentia. MR. P?1TTfRSON : The Oppos"i. Li.un f_earh ~r· i.s rrr:i!;l~::~adi.ng th:is House.

HE~ should i-.c~ 'l.l . 11:; ,;tbOIIf-. l:hE! b,'l[:tnr•y pl< ·\ni ·., the rnagm!sium pli.u1t, the rubber pli:\n-1:, i.h(,' chocolAt-.H pl .r'1nL, <'Ill Hl(•se th:ings thE:~IJ held IJJhiJ.E:~ he-:"! IJJas -in thE! ~:),nall.I~Jood gotJernment. 1'\ncl you sold out the Argentia railway, T hi:\ve i.l: h~::lt'C:\ on 1ny dc:! ~; k . Yotl sold it out· for the gov ernmen t , you gave your consent -.. fhe y JAJOII l.cl no t oppose it , and you wo u 1 d not oppose ~ thl::l abandonm ent : of i:hc ;! Argen tia branch ljne. Tell us ab ou t yotH' :>alar·y, boy . Come on! MR. SPEAKER: Th~re is no point of order .

Th(:~ hon. the Leader of the Opposi.t.-Lon . MR. WEI .. L~) : Thank you, Mr. Speaker . You a]L..t.Jay s k noiAJ LAJhE:~ n you are ma!d .ng i'l. po·i n'f-. i"hPy Ci:\nno l: r~~f1 .1 i-.e, 1.]060 ]unE! lS, ]988 Vol XI.. they hav(:~ to go and try to find somei·.hing i:o cl'i.tJf:H'( -. •'IU:c,~ni::i.on. In their desperation to divert a 1-. 1-.c~n t-·i.on, 1-.h~::~ hon. l_h, ,~ Co•J('!f 'l'llfiE!rl t. the House Leader wanted us to give Pr··i .IJ,'I i.e Mernbt=!t's' 0<3.Y i-odi:1Y.

We offered to co-operate; we will sit l·. on i. •::J h l: , or· s -L l·. i_q n y tno r· n ·i. n r~ to accommodate the government side. '(otl kno'"' wht~n yo11 .;~rc'! rnalcing f.l poin ·t, they gE!t upset and thC '!Y t.r·y L-.o c:I-Lver· 1-. i'li ".l".en Lion. And l:hc,~ hon. member has done it again. He does it: al.l i:h( :! t:"i.n~t~, buf~ hP doP ~> not succeed. MR. PA fTERSON : Boy, level with Newfoundlander s . Your· par· t y "L s I:) t" o k E:' IJJI·d 1 H you a r· e Laking $100,000 (inaudible) . MR.

WELLS : T h ~~ y h t.q v E:~ b I::! (,Hl p r c~ f·: E! n d i. 11 g t h a t this has bE!en a sound ventu1~e to COlJC,~r· lip ·i-.hE! lfli:\SS ·i.IJC.:! 111-i.:;l·.i:lkt:! t:hey made at the time. I sat and 1-i.!> l:~:!nc ,'d i·.o th~' hon. i:he Min_i.stc ->.r' of 0E:~VE!loprnE!I1 'l:, i:hE:~ lclst spE!ai<E :!l" o n 1·. h i. :; 1 rk\ I: i: r'! r· , '1. ·~ l k ,,, b o 1.1 I: '1'-. he ]c-:!adJng edge of l:,,~ chnoJogy, and 111h<'ll·. ~~-H:! on Lh ·i s s idf'! of ·t·.hr,' i·loi .ISO aJ"E:~ against is bringtng tE'!Chno1.ogy 1-. () N (:'I..IJ r 0 1_1 n d l <3. n d .

HE:' s p 0 11 i·: t hI~! last two days trying to divert d1 :h~n ·l:i .un . Wh."\t l:c~chnology? All you have to do is read Al"istol:lE! Or' Per· ·i.cl.E!S r:tnd yo11 111:i .l.l. f.Lnd .i.t dE:~scribed; the Greeks had it 3,000 yedrs dgo. What is he l:alking about? The leading edge of technology that nobody e1se ln ~he world knows anything about! ThE!IJ USE!d the process i,n UH-:"! last World War , Mr . Speaker, to provide fresh vege ta bles for so ld ie rs, because they could not op era te farms in the areas wh e r~ the y were serving.

Is is a simple i".C'!Chnology, b1 .1l'. :i_i.: (.~nds up bc->.ing more costly than soil vegetable p r· o d u c i: i. on . ;, o ill. E! s s v o g E:' tab l (~ No. 56 R3060

pr·oduct: ·i.on ends up b(~ .i.ng rnor·•~ costly . Look at the Greek words . Hydr·opon:ics comc-'!s fr0111 UH>. IJ.Jor·d hydro meaning tJJater I and ponos rnE:~aning labour·. Il: ·i.s a combination of labour and water. And that is one of the things that is wr·ong IJJ:i Lh thE! thing i.n terms of cornpc'! t i.ng IArl l:h nor'ITii'll technology, it needs labour and at tent:.i on. and ·H1a l:: mak(:1S "i. l: tnor·e costly. It is only compE!titiue in ~ very brtef se~son, when soil produced vegetables are not i:'\lJrd.lable.

F.tJE!r·ybody know:; Lh~L. (.) ny body 1/Jho s t·o ps to read any t h:i ng dbOtll: :i.l: knOIAIS Lhc~ ·l·.. Tho r~~dHr~J. Department of Agr·icuJture knOIAIS 1·: h i'l ·1: . T h t'~ y h <:'1 u r,, t~kl r· i1t'~ rl p (:! o p l <·~ about: j t. The government· l,o.Jas t~~en·nc:!d i:lbc)ll+ ·. i, t:. ThH <:JOVlcH'nrnunl: :1 ~; cont:.i nuj ng on in this madcap sch<::~llle. Fverybody i.n UH ) Pr·owi .ncf:' knows about i·t.. FvE:1rybody in l~he Prot;"i.nce !<not•JS t,o.Jha ·l. i.s ~~wong tAJi .l:h this proposal.

It has turned out i·o b(~ a monstrous sham, IAJhi:'li: the:1 government is going through with r·c-'!sp<>.c l: t:o Spr·ung . They are maintaining that: political sham, Mr. Speaker, because thc,~y k no1JJ Hw pr·oj <>. c t cannot succeed as it is at the rn orne n t . If t~ he go v ~~ nnn c:! n 1:: h cl d brought in a proposal to develop a Fa c ·i. 1 :i. t y b a s e d o n h y d r· o p o n :i. c gr·o1Ad ng of VE!9E:~tabJ.es at a Je:1vel oF pr·oduc l·.:i.on 'i:hdi". 1~1011ld mOE! l'.

NewfoundJand's needs, I am conf·i dE!I'l 1: 1-.hc,~ go•H~l"nrnr:•n 1: '''o1~1r1 helve fotHtd tJJj_despn~ad support not 0 n l y f I'' 0 In '1: h lc~ I . :i. b (! r' ,,, l. s ·i. d I"! () f 1-. h ·~ HousE~ but, Ml". SpE:1ak~1r, fr·orn many pH 0 pl. P -j_ 1'1 1. h ic1 p t' 0 lJ ·i, 1'1 t: H 1~1 h l) 1'10 II J. d havE:' got ·r<~n I:H~hj nd the gov<~l"nrnE~nt i:'lnd l:r'j .od l·.h~-:~it· b~::'!> t·. l:o C"!l'lt:OoH'i:'\90: ! t:h~~ PI"OjE:1Ct and do IAJhat LIH~ could l:o :;upply 011r' ot~Jn l'lf.!(>.ds. I" h tc~ 1 n ad n C:! s s of ·i.

I: h r;t s b (~ n 11 apparent in the last few weeks, I.'.JhPn gov<>.r'nrJH"!n-1:. has been i:r·y·i .ng 'l:.o L3061 June lS, 1988 VoJ. XL s ~~ ll 1-: h ·i s prod u c t: .i. n 1\J ova :.1 co l: :i a and in New England, where they had t.: o d 1.1 m p i. t f o r· 1: IAI c:! n t y ... n i n c~~ c E! n 1:. s , having paid tWE!lVe or thirtE•E!I"I C<?.nLs to g{:~t i.t: t:hE!r'e. They come out of it with a net of fifteen to hAJE:Hll ... y cents per cucumber. fhOSE! k n c:JL~Js are the facts. Everybody t:hi:<~l :. AN HON. MEMBER : The numbers are wrong . MR.

WF.L.L .S: T t-. i s n o 9 o o d t · h e h c: n . nH :! m b t:H ' sayj ng thE! nurnbE~I"S ai"C:' IAII"Ong. Tho :;c:! ntllnl:lcr·s •H'( :! r· .. i.ghl : <.Hld they are ctvailable for everybody to •; C! "' . T f , f-11 r· . ~') p () ·~ k e r· , I: l1 e y h ,,, d kept i·t in proper propor tjon, a s l·ht-:!:J I~JPt'!:! •'lclt;·i SP.d, of c;t S i.ze l:.hr'tl: IJJOUld ITI~~E!t the,~ neC:!dS of l::h-:.i.s Pi" o wi n c e I 1: h t1 y 1110 11l d h a v <:• h i:l d widespread support, Even though l·.hE!r'O tn<.~y hr:wc,~ ~)(~HJ'l sorrH,~ r··Lsk involved, people would understand l:h<'ll.: k·i .ncl of E!rfor·t dnd endeavour· .

It is the madness of hi:lving our people subsid ize Lhe cost of delivering cucumbers to Roston and Halifax that is offensive, Mr·. Speaker. Our taxpayers are going to end up paying for that, and that i.s of f o n s i. v c~ , 1'-1 r . ~) p tc1 d bH' . To c a 1 1 it madness is being unduly kind . Jt i.s IW·1drw~;s 1.0 l.:hoi.nk i.n U~t'ITIS that 1.11e could cornpEd:E• 1.~dth a s ·i.m i. 1 o:~ r· f o-1 c i. l i 1·. y o f 1:· h i. s s i. z e .i. n Ontar·to or· Quebec, wher·e, to I::H~gj n ,~,-il.h, t-.hey nr~ed lu~;s po1~1er· becausE! the:1y have a higher lE!ueJ. of n r'l t II r' I'll '1 i. g h !-. .

ThE! p ()(~Je r· 1-. h (! y Ll s H Llli1J cost J.e:~ss, and thE!Y do not: hatJ:~ i·.o P<'~Y l.ht~ transporting it fH' 0 d I I i; \. i 0 1'1 d I' (c' d distribution point cos i· fr·orn oF th<:! to 1:. he in Ontal"io. r-11". Spedkor·. l:hr'll: ·is t:ll:!i:H' tnadrH'!SS and everybody in thjs Province 1 1 n d r~ r· s -l: d n d s i. t . rJJ R . W A R R F. N : No. 56 R3061

T c-:1 ll u s db o 1.1 L L he IJ p p 0 r C h 1 1 r c: hi. ll . MR . ~~r:: U.S: Ther·c->. arE~ othc-:1r· factors, Min . Sped!<er·, [-_o 1~1l·dch dl:h,~nl·ion sh011ld bt~ d1nawn. .T w:i J J tE:~l] the bon. lrtf~HibN· aboul·. 1-.ht~ IJp~H :!~' Chllt'ch ·i.-1'1. and l.hl:~ appt"ova] o-F the hon. Ml". Ot-.t:Gnht~irner·~ t.ht~ i'lppt'O\J<'ll. 1)r Lhl:~ hon. Mr· . Cr·o:.b:ie and all those 0 i·h~:!t' Tor·i .r~ ~; I -Lnc "'lud i ng r:~l.l ·:·.he p~~opl<"! 1.uho s:it· on t:his s:idt"! of the :lousE:~ s:ilt.;!nt b i. l:.~:!! a l-. [·. h C"! HIO nlf:~ 11 1-. dog who is the MR .

WARREN: [ ·L ·j_ :; fir·s l: 1-. he,~ to You and Joey gave it away! You were part of i.t . MR. SPEAKER : Order, please! Order, please! MR. Wfi.I.S: You kno1.u lllhE!n you aro s cor·i.ng a pojnt, Mr. Speaker·. There they r:~ r (:~ . T l·w y IAri . J. l. r· u n 0 r f I: 0 Church:i.lJ FaJ.ls not.u! WE!l1., 1.~1e I~Ji.l.J. dE! a J I~J'i. i: h C h II r• C h i.J.l f d l.l. S t.o~.lht:HI t.he time come-:!!>. We w:i 1.1 r·un Hll'! rr1 o \J e r 1-.1-w Fa J. l s 1~1 h c:Hl l·: h c,~ i :i HI!'! comes. N Ol•l I ~~ r· . S p c,~ d !< r,~ r· I l 0 t: 1 1 :; rl :~ .) l.

L•ri l: h ti-JE :! ~=>pl"ung -.i:.sut:! and thE:~ que! ;tion o 1- wh c,, 1: h F! r· or· no 1-. 1 i·w go lJ r,~ r·· nntc:~ n t-. shcwld bE> COJ'iJrllE!ndt~d, as the,~ hon. ·lhe lllt!lllbr:!l for· ~3[:. John's 1\Jor·l :h i.s asldng. The i:ll'll'IOlHlCE:~d costs lAIE!InE:~ or·iginal l.y pr-oposc,~d 1-o bo '~1.3.11. rnilJion. They hC!VE:~ notAl gone up to a l 1. c-:1 as :-. $ 2 2 . S m:i ll. i. on . MR . J. CARTER: You know why . MR. WELLS: I k notAl why. I k notAl why they have gone up to $22. 5 tnill. :i.on - bc~CdUSt~ tht~ govE!rnment has put thE! entiJ"E! funds :i.n i.l-..

Tht' ~3pr'l.tng organiz~tion has nothing in it. I 3062 June 151 198H Vol XL MR. PATTERSON : You do not like ~; ;d c:1 Sl-. . John'~; shop (inaudible) . MR. Wfl. L.S: St . John's. You Ilia s a bull s E'! y 1::~ 1\J OIJ .J I r·'lr' . ~) p 0 ,., ken· I y () 1.1 c ;-lJ') 0 n "1. y s d. y that it has gonE! up t:o $22.5 1n i.l.l·i on ·i_f yn11 cr•edj_ i·- ~::;prung t.~r·i.t:h the $3.5 to $4 million they wer e :) I I p p 0 Sed [:

I) pI d: i n i. 1': by Wrl y 0 f equit y, and a half milJ ion dollar s i.n g1.1ar.'ln h~e. Only 1-.hr ~n do you ge ·t up to $22 .5 million. If not, l:he totdl i:\C l~ual cos l: has be< ,!n $18 mi J.l i 0 n . I haVE! S E! e 1'1 110 E! VidE:~ n C E' oi:hl"!i" l-:han !:he h<'llf rn-i lJ.oi.on dollar· guar·antee to be gj _ven to thE! bank t: h r.:t t l: h t:! r· e h a s b e E! n a n y r· t'! a 1 equity invested from Spnmgl it 'is 1:~ n t i r· ~~ l y d p t.·l p (~ r E! q u -i_ 1-. y .

S o l:: h e real cost has probably bE!E!n about $19 million to da~e. and all of it the government is ultimately, I be 1 i.e v l~ , go ·i.n g 1: o b t~ r:l t r· i. s I< for . They are absolutely at risk for o v e r· $ F> m:i .ll :i. on I and I· 11 e b a1 <-Hl c e of the costs are derived from the dlflOLiilh> pr·lyablE! i·o ~)yl.vFJ.n:.ia Few HH,~ J :ighting f:i.xtur'E!S; and thEd: 1~ri. ll. r.l r· i. lJ 1 ~ i 1. 1 1 p I· o ~!> l 9 rrr:i. l ·1 :i o n . MR. PATTERSON : J·lo1~1 JJIIICh I~Jr"-1 :; l:he i.·iner'boar'd u6ll.? r~r~ . rHTCH F. L. L: Ho!AI much IAJ<:ls the LinE:'r·boaJ"d rrd.ll? MR.

TUI.K: Tt ts wor!<i.ng well. . AN HON . MEI'-1BER: -(Inaudible) thE! fE!derr.ll L.-.-ibercl1 govE:!rrtrnE~nl ·:. MR . WELLS : Ohl 1 t.lri.11k i·:he Tor·y GovE.>r'ntnent spent about $200 rniJ.lion or· $300 rni 1.1. :i. on on U1 E:~ 1,. i. rH'! r'l:l o <H'd mt 1.1 . The commitment prior to the Torjes l:ak:i .ng OVl'!r' l~ldS 1 [ bE~l-i.PVl"! 1 $81 million. When the Tories got hold o f i. 1.: , l:: h E:' y ~) x p ''' n d e d :i. t l: o No. 56 R3062

$300 milJ.ion. Those arC:~ 'the numbC:1rs, Mr. Speaker, and thC:'Y are there for E!Verybody to see. When Mr. Crosbi.e got hoJ.d of iL, that is what it went up to. MR. TULK : Any more questions? MR. ~\IELLS: Now, Mr. Speaker, the direct goVE!r'nH1C:~11'l involvernc~n L: as l t IAJas originally proposed, got out of whack and out of control. The Premier had originally indicated it t)Jould be $2.5 rnill.ion in cash and $1 million worth of land. What they did, in fact, Mr.

Speaker, was put in the full $3.5 million in cash and contributed $1 million worth of land for $150,000, meaning another '~8 50,000 they tried to hide. Then there is the extra guaran l:ee for $2 million, and the guarantE!E! to the Sprung Companies for $825,000, which they tried to cover up _and explain as monies necessary to enable the company to pay l:he SprtJng Companj .es th<=J amount held back under The ME:~chan:i .cs U.e:1n Act. ~llhy cli.d l::hey guarantee a loan for the Sprung Cornpani e~;? lillhy t.•.Ja s not Newfoundland Enviroponics guarantE!E!d? 1\lone of l:ITi.s hds etJer been . ansu.rered, Mr .

Speaker . They lost the horticultural expertise they did have, and they are left with a coupl.<o! of tE!nt makers IAJho are probably very, very good tent rnakE!rS, no doubt, th<->.Y put up eight pretty good tents out there. But they have no expertise in horticultural matters, none at all. And they have limited, if any, security, because, Mr. Speaker, the real value of those buildings is probably $4 million or $5 million, not the $15 million thE! governmE!nt has into it. In Calgary it was assessed on the L3063 June 15, 1988 Uol XL basis of rE!placemE!nt cost in 1985 dollars at $3. 5 rn'll.J.ion .

ThE!re has beE!n a massive snow job done. No IAronder the i:hi.ng ·i.s tAJhi l:e. MR . PATTERSON : ~~~ e I< n 01.11 11.J h o is p"' yin g your sa 1 a r y , boy. We know, but we wilJ. not l (~ J.J .. t'l_~.F.LLS: Mr· . ~'lpoakc,~r·, we h<~ve as ked I:. hE! questions, we have asked the government to provide us answers to l:he qUE!Stions we haVE! raised on behalf of the taxpayers of this ProvinCE! . We have asked them to explain why the $825,000 guarantE!e to the Sprung CompaniE!S and thE•y have come back wit:h a sham story about a holdback under the construction contract.

In fact, it was loaned to the Sprung Companies . The $2 million was said to be working capilal. Just stop and think, Mr. Speaker. ThE! originaJ. p r· o p o s a 1 r e:~ q tJ -L r <:' d 1:. h e Fa c i. l. i t y to be constructed with the first crop in progr c!SS, tAJith the Fi.r·s l: cr·op in placE! for the construction contrctct, no working capital necessary. But that was not done . Mr. SpE!akE!r, that the documE!nt: l: h R l: s ('! c l.l in (~ s i:. h (:~ $ 2 I rd_ 1. Li. () n specificaJ.ly provides that it is l:o be sp<'!l1t for construct ·.ion, not working capital.

That is s p c,~ c :i. f i c r:t 1 1 y tAl h a t -L t s a y s . A s well, Mr. Speaker, thE! maximum rea s o n a b l e wo r k i n g cap i t: a l t hat might be rE!quired could bE! a half milli.on dollars, in any event. The J.at<->.st f:i.asco, Mr. Speaker, was the marketing scheme. I do not need to remind han. members of that. We saw the effects of it in the House :in the J.ast coup1e of weeks. The efforts of selling l:.hc ,~rn i.n NetAJfoundl .and for· $1..69 No. 56 R3063

c and, at the sarne to Nova Scotia l:h err:1 for· 59 absolute truth. IJJere do·ing. MR. TULK : Right on. MR. WELLS : tJ.111e, taking them and selling them cents . Thnt is That is what they ThE! ads arE! there, the information the han. the (Mr . Windsor) - is clear, and Minister of Finance MR . J. CARTER : On a point of order, Mr . Speaker . MR. SPEnKER (Gre ening) : Order, plea se! A po-L n t o f or d c:! r· , UH :1 h o n . U'H :1 member for St. John 1 s North . MR. WELLS : I would like my two minutes after the member is f-Ln ished. MR. J.

CARTER : By 1 e au e I wi 11 g rant him a 11 t he ti.me he wants, because he is digging a great hole for himself. I was in Nova Scotia and I saw some Sprung cucumbers selling for $1 .47 each, in Nova Scotia , quite recently. AN HON. MEMBER : That is a difference of opinion, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER : There is no point of order . The han. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. WF.l _LS : Thank you, Mr . Speaker .

ThE! rnarketi.ng f'"Lc.'\sco ,~ec(:'rll:l.y t•.l<'lS demonstrated clearly by the comments -Ln this Hou se ·-Ln l~.hr:1 J.ast L3064 JunE! lS, 1988 Vol XL two or three weeks, and the ab solutely incredible statement of lhe han . th e M-i.nist er . of Rural, Agr icultura l and Northern Devel op me nt, tha·t this was all par t of a well-t hou gh t-out scheme to dest roy th~1 pr· odu cers in Nova Sc otia , mo ue in and take over the mark e·ts, and then jack up the prices. MR. TULK : He went to Florida . MR. Wfl_L.S : An off ence und er The Comp eti tion Ac l:. MR .

TULK : TheonJ.y thing he go t o ut of it IJJi.'IS a ·Lr··i .p Lo r:·J. or·icla 0 MR. WELLS: And the week afl:er we find they are selling them in Boston for 29 ce nt s, and our people are paying the h ighe st kind of price for them. And then IJJe Find the y are fee din g t he m to the animals here for· nothing . The y are dumped on the farm s in Newfou ndl and; ta ken, co mp lete with packages and every thing, an d dumpe d, Mr. Speaker, and our taxpayers are paying for it. And t.hE· hon . member· has i:he ga11 to ask us to commend the government for that! SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear, hr:1ar! MR.

TULK : He should resign. MR . WEL LS: tl: is l.J. ke i.'ls!dng us, with all the knowl ed ge we h ave no w, to com mend lhe go 1J0rn ment for the Corne By Cha nc e oil refinery proposal . That i.s ext\r.Ll. y rJJhai : he i.s doing . IL is worse than that! MR. SP EAKE R: No. 56 R3064

Order, please! The hon. member 1 s l::.i1ne is up . MR. WELLS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . I wi.'ll conclude si.mpJ.y, Mr·. Speaker, by saying there is no way .in t.he l.llorld lAIC Ci'lrl E!VE!r commend the building of a white octopus J.·i.kc"~ l:hi'ti:. SOME HON. MFMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. R. AYLWARD : rJJr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : The hon. thE! Minister of Forest Resources. MR. R. AYLWARD: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I L.\Jould like to have just a few words on this proposal presented by the hon. member for· St. John 1 s North,· Mr. Speab~r.

I Wi'IS probably the first member of government involved in this proposal., th·"i.s enlJi.roponics center established here in our Province no1JJ, Ln Koi.lb;"Lde ctclually, not in Mount Pearl, as rnost pE:~ople seE~rn La thj.nk. Tl i.s i.n i<.-i.l.bri .de, probably one of the oldest i'lgri.cll1Lurdl r.u·ei'\s .i.n i.:he Pl"ovince . I am VE~ry delightE!d it is in rny district actually. It was not planned to go that way, but r. am Fort1H1a l:e t L: did corne l::o rny district. Mr. Speaker, the 200 people who are working there now, in my last visit in there at least, seemE!d to be very happy, the ones I talked to.

They really appreciated the opportunity to go t.o work i.n this center, or go to wor·k, period, l3065 June 15, 1988 Vol XL t.hal: is IAihCI t in. thE:1Y IJJC;!re most. intE!rested construction stage, at times therE~ were 300 people working, I know quitE! a During thE! Mr ·. SpeakE!r, up as high as T. I:H~lil"VE:~. f E!IAI of thern, bE!Ci'luso my for·1ner· land surveyor and c o n s t I" u c t ·i. o n ~; :i. L: 0. !> and I knew a lot of proFE!SSion is as I wor·ked ar·ound q 1,1 :i l.: (c' a b i t ' thE! pE•op1E! who I~J(-:!r'C~ I~Jor·!d.ng on tl'l'i.s proposal. Not onE:~ of them, Mr.

SpE!akE!r, E!UE!r si'\ ·i.d to rne, IJJhi .J.e T lAIRS ·in LhE!r·e, that the NDP crowd here in the cor-rH,~r, or t:hr:~ Li.I:H:H'al.s, or· The Sunday Express or the CBC were right in opposing this project. ThE!Y IAJE!re deligh'l:E!d t.o be able t.o work on thE• project at thE! tirne. People who are ther'c" now are delighted to be working at the enviroponics center, and they t..uE!re very supportive of gouernrnent 1 s efforts l:o import this technology and develop it in our Province.

A l.oL of thern hoped, aft:er their training, that these enviroponic c en u,~ r s IJJO u J. d be so 1 d as a franchise, I guess, which IAIOuld be one method, so that Newfoundlanders would have the fir·s L: opportunity l:.o b0 tra·i.nE!d in these centers and they would go about-. other· pl.aces, ITii!Aybe :.Ln NeiJJfoundland, maybe other pal~ts of No1"1·.h nrnerica, And l:rai.n PC'!Opl.e in those areas to work this E!rllJ:i.roponi.cs ce:~nb~r. Mr. Sper.1.ker, that, -Ln :i.l:sE•lf, has to be a complete and utter turn around from whal: we are used to here in this Province.

Usually if tJJe gc,,t someth-Lng in tlri.s Province, and history wi 11 prove t hi s , even with Churchill Falls, Come By Chance, when it was being bu:i.J.t, the majority of the good jobs in those areas were always people who carne in from outside the Province, not Newfoundlanders going out to No. 56 R306S

train other people . Mr·. Speaker, we did get a Jot of the labour jobs in thos0 facilities and structures when thE:~Y I~Jer·e bPing built, but 1.ue m~ver got the initial training to be the foremC:Hl or to be:~ Lhe top engineers or the superintendents or thE:~ good plann'"i.ng jobs involved in these major construction sites. This project could turn that around, certainJ.y in this area, along L•.d t.h other proj E!Cts that are going on throughout our PlnovinCE!, Mr. Speaker, iAdth NORDCO and other cornpaniE:~s. Mr .

Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition mentioned, and The Sunday Express again had another shot at it t:h""i.s LIJPek, thr'ti.: thr~ Pr emier wrote a federal Mi nister of DRlE two d~ys beFo~e ~he announcemeht looking for i.nformati.on on the slucl.i .e5 whi.c:h were done by the federal governrnE!nt. Mr . Speaker, whe1i: actually happened in that case was, during our· negotiations, we approached DRIE, as did P. E. I. ae tually, and as I< e d them if the y wo u 1 d come i. n on this pro j e c t with us to try to develop this !:echnology in Canada, but particularly in Newfoundland .

They got a letter before us suggesting that ACOA, or the Atlantic Opportunities, I believe it t~Jas at that time, or Atlantic Enterprise, whatever it was called, and DRIE. would not participatEt because of studies the federal government had which showed this tech nology wa s not proven, or tJJas not ag s·tated by the Sprungs. So, when thE! Pr·emier heard of Uwse studi.Ps, 1.uhich tAJas ldi-.C!, lAte got the letter just before we were !.3066 June 1.5, 19!l8 Vol.

XI.. finalizing our negotiations, the Pr·orni.er said, 'WelJ., if t.h~~Y have studies, where are they?' He teJ.eXE!d HH'!rn ·i.nune:,diately and asked for the studies . The letter hE! got back said, 'No , IAH~ did not parttcipate in i.t, not because we had studies to shoLIJ it ll.Jas not provC:~n. lAte haVE! no stucLi,:•s to show this will work or will not work. We will just not participate in the project.' Mr. Speaker, if thE!Y had to haVE! s t u el-i. e s cl o n E! o n Ud s p r o p o s a 1 a n d the y showed the project was not viabl<-?., we would haue gladly looked at them .

But we knew enough, becr.ws e IJJB we: 1re dealing through an eight-month period with Agricul ture Canadi't and anyone else involved in it, to know they knew no !~ h J n 9 abo u L: ·it . They h i.il d n e v E~ r studied it. They looked . at it p r "=~ J. t tn i. n d r i. J. y d t onE~ t ··~ rn (=t • For the most p~"lri :, P. F..L. lost the irs because of political prassure brought l.:o bear by the Nova