British Columbia Hansard — 29 April 2019, a.m., Issue 240 (41st Parliament, 4th Session)

20190429am-Hansard-n240

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session, 41st Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES (HANSARD) Monday, April 29, 2019 Morning Sitting Issue No. 240 THE HONOURABLE DARRYL PLECAS, SPEAKER ISSN 1499-2175

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Janet Austin, OBC Fourth Session, 41st Parliament SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Darryl Plecas EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................... Hon. John Horgan Deputy Premier and Minister of Finance............................................................................................................................Hon.

Carole James Minister of Advanced Education, Skills and Training..................................................................................................... Hon. Melanie Mark Minister of Agriculture.........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Attorney General.................................................................................................................................................................Hon.

David Eby, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ............................................................................................................ Hon. Katrine Conroy Minister of State for Child Care...................................................................................................................................... Hon. Katrina Chen Minister of Citizens’ Services.................................................................................................................................................... Hon.

Jinny Sims Minister of Education ............................................................................................................................................................ Hon. Rob Fleming Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources ...............................................................................................Hon. Michelle Mungall Minister of Environment and Climate Change Strategy............................................................................................. Hon.

George Heyman Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development ..............................................Hon. Doug Donaldson Minister of Health .....................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Adrian Dix Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation ......................................................................................................... Hon.

Scott Fraser Minister of Jobs, Trade and Technology............................................................................................................................ Hon. Bruce Ralston Minister of State for Trade...............................................................................................................................................Hon. George Chow Minister of Labour ...................................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Harry Bains Minister of Mental Health and Addictions............................................................................................................................ Hon. Judy Darcy Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing.................................................................................................................. Hon. Selina Robinson Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ........................................................................................................... Hon.

Mike Farnworth Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction..............................................................................................Hon. Shane Simpson Minister of Tourism, Arts and Culture.....................................................................................................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure................................................................................................................ Hon.

Claire Trevena LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition................................................................................................................................Andrew Wilkinson, QC Leader of the Third Party ....................................................................................................................................................Dr. Andrew Weaver Deputy Speaker................................................................................................................................................................................

Raj Chouhan Assistant Deputy Speaker................................................................................................................................................................... Joan Isaacs Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ................................................................................................................

Spencer Chandra Herbert Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ....................................................................................................................................................Craig James Acting Clerk of the Legislative Assembly...............................................................................................................................

Kate Ryan-Lloyd Clerk Assistant — Committees and Interparliamentary Relations ..........................................................................................Susan Sourial Sessional Law Clerk...............................................................................................................................................Loredana Catalli-Sonier, QC Parliamentary Counsel ...................................................................................................................................................................... S.

Suzie Seo Sergeant-at-Arms ................................................................................................................................................................................. Gary Lenz Acting Sergeant-at-Arms......................................................................................................................................... Randall Ennis, MMM, CD

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal) ........................................................................ Penticton Bains, Hon. Harry (NDP)...............................................................Surrey-Newton Barnett, Donna (BC Liberal) ................................................... Cariboo-Chilcotin Beare, Hon. Lisa (NDP).............................................Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Begg, Garry (NDP) ..................................................................... Surrey-Guildford Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal) .......................................................

Peace River South Bond, Shirley (BC Liberal)......................................... Prince George–Valemount Brar, Jagrup (NDP)..................................................................... Surrey-Fleetwood Cadieux, Stephanie (BC Liberal)....................................................... Surrey South Chandra Herbert, Spencer (NDP) ..................................... Vancouver–West End Chen, Hon. Katrina (NDP).....................................................Burnaby-Lougheed Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ............................................................... Burnaby-Edmonds Chow, Hon.

George (NDP)............................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Clovechok, Doug (BC Liberal) ................................ Columbia River–Revelstoke Coleman, Rich (BC Liberal) ...............................................................Langley East Conroy, Hon. Katrine (NDP)......................................................... Kootenay West Darcy, Hon.

Judy (NDP) ............................................................New Westminster Davies, Dan (BC Liberal) ..........................................................Peace River North de Jong, Michael, QC (BC Liberal) ............................................ Abbotsford West Dean, Mitzi (NDP)...............................................................Esquimalt-Metchosin D’Eith, Bob (NDP) ...............................................................Maple Ridge–Mission Dix, Hon. Adrian (NDP)......................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Donaldson, Hon.

Doug (NDP).....................................................................Stikine Eby, Hon. David, QC (NDP)............................................. Vancouver–Point Grey Elmore, Mable (NDP)....................................................... Vancouver-Kensington Farnworth, Hon. Mike (NDP) ...................................................... Port Coquitlam Fleming, Hon. Rob (NDP) .....................................................Victoria–Swan Lake Foster, Eric (BC Liberal)........................................................... Vernon-Monashee Fraser, Hon.

Scott (NDP) ................................................ Mid Island–Pacific Rim Furstenau, Sonia (BC Green Party) ........................................... Cowichan Valley Gibson, Simon (BC Liberal) ................................................. Abbotsford-Mission Glumac, Rick (NDP)........................................................Port Moody–Coquitlam Heyman, Hon. George (NDP) .............................................. Vancouver-Fairview Horgan, Hon. John (NDP) ...............................................

Langford–Juan de Fuca Hunt, Marvin (BC Liberal) .......................................................Surrey-Cloverdale Isaacs, Joan (BC Liberal) .........................................Coquitlam–Burke Mountain James, Hon. Carole (NDP)...................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Johal, Jas (BC Liberal)...............................................

Richmond-Queensborough Kahlon, Ravi (NDP)..............................................................................Delta North Kang, Anne (NDP)..................................................................Burnaby–Deer Lake Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal)............................................................................ Shuswap Larson, Linda (BC Liberal) .............................................Boundary-Similkameen Lee, Michael (BC Liberal) ......................................................

Vancouver-Langara Leonard, Ronna-Rae (NDP) ....................................................Courtenay-Comox Letnick, Norm (BC Liberal)............................................Kelowna–Lake Country Ma, Bowinn (NDP) ................................................... North Vancouver–Lonsdale Malcolmson, Sheila (NDP) .......................................................................Nanaimo Mark, Hon. Melanie (NDP) ..................................... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Martin, John (BC Liberal)......................................................................

Chilliwack Milobar, Peter (BC Liberal).................................... Kamloops–North Thompson Morris, Mike (BC Liberal) ..........................................Prince George–Mackenzie Mungall, Hon. Michelle (NDP).................................................... Nelson-Creston Oakes, Coralee (BC Liberal) ...........................................................Cariboo North Olsen, Adam (BC Green Party)........................... Saanich North and the Islands Paton, Ian (BC Liberal)......................................................................... Delta South Plecas, Hon.

Darryl (Ind.) ..........................................................Abbotsford South Polak, Mary (BC Liberal) ............................................................................ Langley Popham, Hon. Lana (NDP)..............................................................Saanich South Ralston, Hon. Bruce (NDP) .......................................................... Surrey-Whalley Redies, Tracy (BC Liberal) ..................................................... Surrey–White Rock Reid, Linda (BC Liberal) ................................................

Richmond South Centre Rice, Jennifer (NDP) ............................................................................ North Coast Robinson, Hon. Selina (NDP) ....................................... Coquitlam-Maillardville Ross, Ellis (BC Liberal)..................................................................................Skeena Routledge, Janet (NDP) .................................................................. Burnaby North Routley, Doug (NDP) ................................................Nanaimo–North Cowichan Rustad, John (BC Liberal) ..............................................................

Nechako Lakes Shypitka, Tom (BC Liberal) .............................................................Kootenay East Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ........................................Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Hon. Shane (NDP)................................................ Vancouver-Hastings Sims, Hon.

Jinny (NDP) .............................................................Surrey-Panorama Singh, Rachna (NDP) ........................................................Surrey–Green Timbers Stewart, Ben (BC Liberal) ................................................................Kelowna West Stilwell, Michelle (BC Liberal)..............................................Parksville-Qualicum Stone, Todd (BC Liberal)........................................

Kamloops–South Thompson Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal).......................................West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Sullivan, Sam (BC Liberal)...............................................Vancouver–False Creek Sultan, Ralph (BC Liberal) ......................................... West Vancouver–Capilano Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal) ................................................................ Fraser-Nicola Thomson, Steve (BC Liberal)..................................................... Kelowna-Mission Thornthwaite, Jane (BC Liberal) .............................

North Vancouver–Seymour Throness, Laurie (BC Liberal) ..................................................... Chilliwack-Kent Trevena, Hon. Claire (NDP) .............................................................. North Island Wat, Teresa (BC Liberal) ................................................Richmond North Centre Weaver, Dr. Andrew (BC Green Party) ......................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Wilkinson, Andrew, QC (BC Liberal) .............................. Vancouver-Quilchena Y ap, John (BC Liberal)..........................................................

Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Mission ..........................................................................Simon Gibson Abbotsford South ..................................................................... Hon. Darryl Plecas Abbotsford West .................................................................... Michael de Jong, QC Boundary-Similkameen.....................................................................

Linda Larson Burnaby–Deer Lake ...............................................................................Anne Kang Burnaby-Edmonds ..............................................................................Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Lougheed................................................................... Hon. Katrina Chen Burnaby North................................................................................

Janet Routledge Cariboo-Chilcotin ............................................................................Donna Barnett Cariboo North .................................................................................. Coralee Oakes Chilliwack.............................................................................................. John Martin Chilliwack-Kent..............................................................................Laurie Throness Columbia River–Revelstoke........................................................

Doug Clovechok Coquitlam–Burke Mountain................................................................. Joan Isaacs Coquitlam-Maillardville..................................................... Hon. Selina Robinson Courtenay-Comox ................................................................. Ronna-Rae Leonard Cowichan Valley ............................................................................

Sonia Furstenau Delta North ...........................................................................................Ravi Kahlon Delta South.................................................................................................Ian Paton Esquimalt-Metchosin.............................................................................Mitzi Dean Fraser-Nicola........................................................................................

Jackie Tegart Kamloops–North Thompson............................................................Peter Milobar Kamloops–South Thompson ................................................................Todd Stone Kelowna–Lake Country....................................................................Norm Letnick Kelowna-Mission.............................................................................

Steve Thomson Kelowna West.........................................................................................Ben Stewart Kootenay East .....................................................................................Tom Shypitka Kootenay West ...................................................................... Hon. Katrine Conroy Langford–Juan de Fuca............................................................. Hon. John Horgan Langley....................................................................................................

Mary Polak Langley East .......................................................................................Rich Coleman Maple Ridge–Mission ............................................................................ Bob D’Eith Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ..........................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Mid Island–Pacific Rim .............................................................. Hon. Scott Fraser Nanaimo ....................................................................................

Sheila Malcolmson Nanaimo–North Cowichan.............................................................. Doug Routley Nechako Lakes ...................................................................................... John Rustad Nelson-Creston.................................................................. Hon. Michelle Mungall New Westminster ......................................................................... Hon. Judy Darcy North Coast..........................................................................................

Jennifer Rice North Island ............................................................................ Hon. Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale ................................................................. Bowinn Ma North Vancouver–Seymour ......................................................Jane Thornthwaite Oak Bay–Gordon Head ..........................................................Dr.

Andrew Weaver Parksville-Qualicum .....................................................................Michelle Stilwell Peace River North.................................................................................. Dan Davies Peace River South ............................................................................... Mike Bernier Penticton................................................................................................ Dan Ashton Port Coquitlam .................................................................... Hon.

Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Coquitlam .....................................................................Rick Glumac Powell River–Sunshine Coast ..................................................... Nicholas Simons Prince George–Mackenzie ..................................................................Mike Morris Prince George–Valemount.................................................................

Shirley Bond Richmond North Centre ........................................................................Teresa Wat Richmond-Queensborough .......................................................................Jas Johal Richmond South Centre........................................................................ Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston..................................................................................

John Y ap Saanich North and the Islands............................................................Adam Olsen Saanich South............................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Shuswap .................................................................................................... Greg Kyllo Skeena ......................................................................................................... Ellis Ross Stikine ..................................................................................Hon.

Doug Donaldson Surrey-Cloverdale............................................................................... Marvin Hunt Surrey-Fleetwood ...................................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey–Green Timbers ......................................................................Rachna Singh Surrey-Guildford ....................................................................................Garry Begg Surrey-Newton.............................................................................Hon.

Harry Bains Surrey-Panorama........................................................................... Hon. Jinny Sims Surrey South............................................................................... Stephanie Cadieux Surrey-Whalley........................................................................ Hon. Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock ............................................................................. Tracy Redies Vancouver-Fairview ............................................................ Hon.

George Heyman Vancouver–False Creek....................................................................... Sam Sullivan Vancouver-Fraserview .............................................................Hon. George Chow Vancouver-Hastings .............................................................. Hon. Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington ..................................................................... Mable Elmore Vancouver-Kingsway ................................................................... Hon.

Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara .............................................................................. Michael Lee Vancouver–Mount Pleasant ................................................... Hon. Melanie Mark Vancouver–Point Grey...........................................................Hon.

David Eby, QC Vancouver-Quilchena ......................................................Andrew Wilkinson, QC Vancouver–West End....................................................Spencer Chandra Herbert Vernon-Monashee...................................................................................Eric Foster Victoria–Beacon Hill ................................................................ Hon. Carole James Victoria–Swan Lake .................................................................. Hon. Rob Fleming West Vancouver–Capilano .................................................................

Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Sea to Sky ..............................................................Jordan Sturdy Party Standings: BC Liberal 42; NDP 41; BC Green Party 3; Independent 1

CONTENTS Monday, April 29, 2019 Morning Sitting Page Orders of the Day Private Members’ Statements................................................................................................................................................. 8441 Family doctors S. Malcolmson N. Letnick Rural roads D. Davies N. Simons A forest of jobs D. Routley C. Oakes Science based wildlife management M. Bernier R.

Leonard Private Members’ Motions ..................................................................................................................................................... 8450 Motion 7 — Waiving of cabinet privilege on documents related to money laundering R. Kahlon P . Milobar J. Routledge M. Morris B. D’Eith J. Y ap J. Brar R. Sultan R. Glumac T. Redies M. Dean

MONDAY , APRIL 29, 2019 The House met at 10:02 a.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Routine Business Prayers. Orders of the Day Private Members’ Statements FAMILY DOCTORS S. Malcolmson:I rise today as the MLA for Nanaimo. I’m very proud about some of the improvements that we’ve been able to make as a government to increase health care in my region. We’ve added three new ambulances; we’ve added 24 new paramedics. [J.

Isaacs in the chair.] We’ve eliminated the PharmaCare deductible for people with incomes below $30,000 and reduced deductibles for people with incomes below $45,000 — huge access to Phar- maCare and prescription medication. It’s making a huge dif- ference. We’re replacing the intensive care unit at the hospit- al, at NRGH. It’s long overdue, and it’s something that’s going to make a huge difference. [10:05 a.m.] We’re now running the MRI machine 24 hours a day — something that should have been done a long time ago.

That is really eliminating waiting times — of course, of great con- cern to families and patients who want to know if they actu- ally do have an emergency cancer or something. To have the MRI machine running all the time and reducing waiting lists is making a huge difference. Knee and hip replacements — also greatly reduced waiting times. A lot of good work has been done. At the same time, what I hear most often from constitu- ents is their inability to access a family doctor. This is a prob- lem across the province. One in six British Columbians does not have a primary care provider.

That has been a long- standing problem. We’ve tried to make headway, but we’re not getting all the way. So today I want to give people a little bit of hope back at home about some of the work that is being done. We are working to make sure that people do have fast access to the health care that they need, to take the stress off families, to get the treatment that they need as quickly as possible. But the bottleneck has been the family doctor, and 15,500 people in Nanaimo are estimated not to have access to a family doctor.

And 36 percent of British Columbians say that they last visited the emergency department for a condi- tion they could have talked with their family doctor about if they had a family doctor or if they’ d been able to get an appointment quickly. We can imagine what the consequences are of not being able to access a family doctor. Some people, I hear, cannot get access to the federal and provincial disability tax credits. Without the letter from a family doctor, they actually end up being ineligible. Some people are self-medicating to deal with chronic pain.

That has amplified the addiction and overdose crisis that has hit this whole country, and British Columbia particularly hard. Some cannot access the avail- able mental health and addictions supports simply because they can’t access a family doctor, that primary caregiver. There are some hopeful changes that we are bringing already, and we’re already starting to see a little bit of a shift in Nanaimo. We are, provincewide, funding 200 nurse prac- titioners and new family doctors. I’ll talk a little bit more about that in a minute.

But the basic principle is that young doctors, especially, do not want to have the burden of estab- lishing a new family practice or buying into somebody else’s old family practice. It’s expensive to have the equipment and the overhead. They don’t necessarily want to work on the fee- for-service level. They would rather just work at a salaried level — especially young doctors who haven’t yet got them- selves established. Our Health Minister, in conversation with the front-line doctors and nurse practitioners….

This government, the provincial government, has removed a lot of barriers to working with nurse practitioners over the last, I would say, five years at least. But now it’s how we actually figure out a fee and a service model that lets them do their work. The feed- back that we’ve had is that they want to do these positions on a salaried level rather than on a fee-for-service level. That is going to attract more people to want to work as a gener- al practitioner or a family doctor and to work in our com- munities.

Then one of the biggest impact pieces that we are just on the verge of feeling in my community is a new urgent and primary care centre in Nanaimo. That’s going to be at the Medical Arts Centre, which is at Harbour Park Mall, really close to where I live. I’ve been seeing waiting lines at this place for years. We’re going to be able to take the pressure off, have it operate seven days a week. Having a fuller slate of health professionals is also going to mean that we can max- imize the work of those family doctors. The big picture is that people want to access health care where and when they need it.

Doctors and other health professionals want to find better ways of working together, breaking down the silos, cooperating, supporting their patients and supporting each other. So we are taking these steps as a province, through our primary care strategy, to make sure people have faster and better access but also to establish teams of health care professionals that work togeth- er to reduce the burden of patient care and also to have better delivery of patient care. The primary care centres and the urgent primary care cen- 8441

tres that have been established so far just in the last year…. That would involve a family doctor, a nurse practitioner, a social worker, a pharmacist — people that are working from the social work perspective to help patients navigate their life and navigate services available to them. Then especially, and this is going to be a big part of the Nanaimo opening, there will be addictions and mental health support. [10:10 a.m.] Now, we still want people, if they are in a real crisis, to go to the emergency.

That absolutely applies to an overdose, an acute mental health problem, a heart attack or anything that would traditionally send you directly to emergency. That’s still where we want you to go. For the pieces that are in between — say, I’m a parent of a kid with a high fever, and I’m not sure whether they’re in terrible trouble — you could, in this case, take the kid with a fever to an urgent primary care centre. They can immedi- ately get assessed. The doctor would say, “Y es, you need to go to emergency” or “No, this is how to reduce a fever” or “Here’s a prescription for an antibiotic, ” if that is necessary.

It’s the same with an elder in your family who might be experiencing anxiety. We don’t want you to wait to be able to get to see your family doctor. It may take days to get an appointment. Or if you have, for example, a urinary tract infection, you want to get access…. Deputy Speaker:Thank you, Member. N. Letnick:Thank you to the member for Nanaimo for introducing the motion and the discussion and talking about how it’s important to continue to support family physicians and also other allied health professionals in primary care throughout British Columbia. As the member knows, this is not something that’s new.

Successive governments have been trying to continue to increase access. The previous government had its way of con- tinuing to do that, especially when we look at the budget — with consistently, over the years, above 40 percent of the provincial budget going to health care. Primary care is, of course, one of the key foundations. I was just checking the record over the weekend to prepare for this, and I saw some interesting things that I think would be of benefit to share with members and with British Col- umbians — things like Foundry, which is now very much mainstream around British Columbia.

We’re continuing to see increases in Foundry, of course. That was done during the prior government. Nurse-in-practice was and still is an amazing ability for the government to fund nurses to actu- ally go into private physicians’ offices and thereby allow and help empower physicians to accept more patients through the nurse-in-practice program. Urgent care centres, of course, are nothing new. The urgent care centre was started, the first one just up the road — or down the road, depending on how you look at it — in Parksville, by the previous government.

It’s now continuing, of course, with the expansion by the current government. I totally support the current government in doing that. Integrated primary and community care centres. Again, that’s nothing new, but it’s continuing with the current gov- ernment, which is great. I was at an opening in Kelowna of one. Of course, there’s one in Kamloops, and they’re else- where around the province. This work with integrated care and the current way that we’re looking at funding people, more on salary rather than on fee-for-service, is something that the doctors have been talking about for many years.

In the 2015 discussion paper, which the member is probably aware of, the ministry went out and asked the public in health care: “What can we do in primary care to get moving and making it even better?” A lot of the work came out of that. It’s nice to see that the Deputy Minister of Health is the same deputy minister that led that initiative. Through that, of course, design work began on the work of establishing 61 private care networks around British Columbia.

The current government is continuing to implement that in conjunction with patient medical homes — again, something that the previous government was very supportive of. I think that one piece we need to also include in this is the education of people to make sure that we have British Col- umbians who are becoming doctors, nurse practitioners and other allied health professionals. Back in 2001 — I know I wasn’t involved, and neither was the member for Nanaimo — the government of the day took the medical students’ spaces from 128 to 288.

That’s still the current number of spaces that we have through distributed campuses through- out British Columbia. For people in the north — Prince George, for example — the theory was, and in practice it’s worked out that way, that if you got trained in a location, you probably wanted to stay in that location as well. Of course, now it’s in Kelowna as well that we have a school.

I think this continues to be a great way of implementing expansion of primary care. [10:15 a.m.] Over the life of the previous government, there were 8,900 new health and medical program seats, including twice the number of seats for nurses in British Columbia, twice the number of midwife spaces and twice the number of resid- ency spaces, from 134 to 346. Again, I think that’s an import- ant thing we need to look at, that the current government needs to look at. It’s one thing to train a doctor here, but you need the residence spaces to finish off the training.

We have a lot of British Columbians that go abroad, learn the trade through their school. Then they come back here and have to compete for those residency spaces. I think we need to look at increasing those residence spaces. Of course, the previous government created the nurse practitioner program in 2005. By 2017, we had 409 prac- tising in B.C. The current government supports that and actually increased it from 45 nurse practitioners per year by an additional 30. We applaud that decision.

We continue to move together, I believe, in a collaborative manner between 8442 British Columbia Debates Monday, April 29, 2019

the Minister of Health and us — in particular, myself as the critic. We work together to improve primary health care and all health care for all British Columbians throughout our province. S. Malcolmson:With respect to the member opposite, former Premier Christy Clark and the former government made a grand pronouncement at election time that they were going to eliminate the family doctor shortage. That promise was abandoned towards the end of the term, and in fact the province was in worse shape than when they started. This is a government, under the NDP , that is taking real action.

We hear from people again and again. If they don’t have access to a family doctor, it puts them into real crisis, which costs the system, and emergency, more overall. If we can treat people in a team-based approach, giving them the sup- ports on mental health, on physio, on social work, working together with a pharmacist to develop a good plan of approach, then we can do better. We’re going to do better with chronic pain. I was just meeting on Friday with an optometrist who said that with some eye conditions, if you can immediately deliver a pre- scription approach, you may be able to prevent blindness.

What are we going to be able to do as a province if we give people the help that they need right away? In Nanaimo, we’re going to have 14 new full-time health care providers opening up in June. That’s going to support up to 25,000 additional patient visits, and 3,300 of those are estimated to be for mental health and addictions treatment. Again, if we can deal with people at an entry level, then we may be able to prevent some of the crises. There’s also now under consideration a nurse practitioner clinic in south Nanaimo.

It’s called the nurse practitioner patient medical home — which I support, and so does my fellow member to the south. This is a place where residents have higher health care needs but less access to doctors. Sev- en-days-a-week home care visits for palliative care, again being delivered mostly by nurse practitioners, is a good way to access health directly. It’s something that has been proven in other settings to reduce hospital visits. Over 60 different studies say there are fewer emergency visits to the ER and fewer hospitalizations when we have these urgent primary care centres.

Then the offer of 200 new paid general practitioner pos- itions and 200 nurse practitioner positions across the province — again, a real step that’s going to make a differ- ence in people’s lives right now. It’s something that a gov- ernment that is committed to health care, that’s committed to people but also managing taxpayer resources wisely…. I’m proud of the work that we’re doing together with the Health Minister and look forward to seeing people in my community move forward with health and the support that they need. RURAL ROADS D.

Davies:I appreciate the opportunity to lead a discus- sion this morning on rural road infrastructure. It is certainly an issue that is at the front of my mind. As well, I’m sure it’s true for many folks in this chamber on both sides of the aisle who represent rural ridings. I would say that if there’s prob- ably one call that I receive often in my office in Fort St. John, it is on the rural roads. [10:20 a.m.] There are many layers to this issue, so we’ll start with one of the hottest issues, both literally and figuratively.

Of course, with the increased forest fires that B.C. has had, there’s been a destabilization of large swaths around the province, partic- ularly in the central Interior and the north, where the fires have blazed. While the immediate implications of this are devastating, the destruction of the trees also serves to destabilize the ter- rain, which, of course, leads to landslides. Of course, speak- ing of landslides, you’ll recall that one struck very close to my home last fall, in the community of Old Fort, about a 10-minute drive from Fort St. John, home to about 200 people that were evacuated from their homes.

It was almost a month after the landslide that residents were able to return home. That was due to the construction of a temporary road. If there’s anything that we are certainly grateful for, it’s that nobody was hurt in that landslide. These disasters do happen, though, around the province. We need to ensure that resources and funding are ready to go when these disasters strike. What happened in Old Fort is but one example to draw on in regards to the urgent care that is needed for our rural roads across the province.

These are the roads that connect people with their jobs and families and with the important resources they require, such as food and clothing. We all know that Old Fort certainly doesn’t have a grocery store. So the people living there have to get into their community — Fort St. John, in this case — to get their needs. The washing out of any small rural road could certainly develop into a humanitarian crisis quite quickly. It’s not just the effects of forest fires that cause wear and tear. Access can be difficult in the spring as well, as condi- tions become poor due to spring runoff.

It becomes, actually, so bad in some areas in my riding that kids can’t get picked up by their school bus. People that are facing a health crisis cannot get the emergency care that they require. Again, this happens in my riding as well as many other ridings in the Interior and northern areas. The lack of upkeep sometimes makes these routes very dangerous to travel, especially in the summertime, when many of these gravel roads become so dusty that it is very difficult to see oncoming traffic. In fact, very specifically, I think about the Baldonnel Road in my riding. It is old and in poor repair.

There are already concerns that due to the dust, you can’t see pedestrians, children and animals. My colleague from Cariboo North has likewise brought up issues around the West Fraser Road, which is also in dis- Monday, April 29, 2019 British Columbia Debates 8443

repair and has caused a great deal of strife for First Nations communities that rely on access to nearby service centres. What’s more is there can be overlap between public roads and roads that are meant for industry. While it isn’t supposed to happen, of course, it does, and it leads to a whole new slew of issues. Going back to the Baldonnel area around Fort St. John — and frankly, again, many other roads around B.C. — the Baldonnel Road has been used heavily for industry in recent years.

This, coupled with the disrepair, has made the road even more dangerous, especially for the 60 or so people that live along it. While these roads do play an important role in rural economies, which is something I’m going to touch on briefly a little bit later, the government needs to make sure that this is done in such a way that it bears in mind the safety of all the individuals that use it, whether it’s the res- idents that live on the roads or the industry that is using them.

People of the Interior, the north, parts of the Island, as well as all British Columbians, deserve roads that allow them to live their lives without the stress of being suddenly cut off from essential goods and services or being at risk for their own personal safety. They also deserve roads that are safe for use, which requires that they are well maintained and up to the current code. The responsibility for doing this falls upon all of us in this chamber.

Again, the rural roads, outside of the Lower Mainland and Victoria, often include even our secondary highways, which I think a lot of people don’t necessarily rec- ognize as rural roads. But these secondary highways are crit- ical arteries for many of our farmers. I would be remiss if I didn’t mention one very important piece of infrastructure up in the north as we talk about the ability to move commerce back and forth to communities.

It’s the Taylor Bridge. [10:25 a.m.] The Taylor Bridge has been brought up a number of times by myself in this chamber — about the disrepair that the bridge is in and the issues that it is causing the economy in the entire north. With that, I will take my seat. I do look forward to what the member opposite has to say on this topic. I’m sure there’s going to be some mention of remote islands and other things, as well, on this. N. Simons: Thank you to my friend the MLA for Peace River North for his comments on rural roads.

As a rep- resentative of a rural riding, I understand the importance of our highway infrastructure. As a representative of a ferry-reliant community, I also recognize the importance of what is, essentially, at the root of this discussion — and that is, enabling us to get from one community to another and ensuring that our commerce can be promoted through that effort. I just want to say that one of my first political awakenings was when I was driving with my mom and dad in our Volk- swagen, with my siblings packed into the back. I don’t think we had seatbelts in those days.

But I remember going through the rolling hills of Rawdon, in Nova Scotia, and my dad commenting, as we hit a rough patch, “This must be a Conservative riding” — or a Liberal riding, depending who was in government at the time. I don’t remember exactly. But it was really very stark. Y ou’re driving along a very bumpy road, and then suddenly, it’s really smooth. As a child, unrestrained in a vehicle with very little sus- pension, you can tell when you’re on a good road and when you’re on a bad road.

I thought to myself: “Well, isn’t it the responsibility of government just to ensure that we keep safe roads everywhere?” It might be this particular party’s riding now, but another day it might be another. Really, when we talk about provincial expenditures in the infrastructure of our province, we think it should be alloc- ated fairly. It should be allocated with careful consideration of safety issues, of community needs, of economic develop- ment and of good travel options. Blacktop politics is not a foreign subject.

In fact, it was the subject of a Postmedia analysis a few years back, which found that the governing party was more likely to allocate funds to projects in their ridings and, in fact, predominantly in the ridings of that government’s cabinet ministers. I just think that every time there’s a change in government, there’s always that allegation that perhaps this government is going to do more for theirs and less for others. But I like to think that in our system of checks and balances, we can be transparent and open about that.

We know that when a bridge, for example, gets upgrading in a riding in the north, they’ll understand that we need to ensure that our roads and our communities are equally well looked after. The maintenance contract for rural roads is an important one. We see that some increases and improvements are being made to the upcoming maintenance agreements. In the north, this is probably relevant because the standards of when patrols take place after a winter event — a.k.a. snow, a blizzard or what have you…. There’ll be different standards of when that has to be cleared by and how often the patrols take place.

I want to comment on the member’s referral to com- munities that get cut off, communities that lose their con- nection to other communities. It’s one thing when there’s

an act of God — a natural disaster or the moving of a hillside — to impede proper communication and connection between communities. It’s quite another when government takes the specific, concerted and planned action to reduce your ability to get from one community to another. I think that when we talk about rural roads, we should talk about rural transportation infrastructure. As I said, it’s one thing when snow stops us from getting places or landslides make it impossible to traverse, but when a government plans to reduce your access to get to other communities, that’s when we run into trouble.

That’s why I would call on every government in this province to recognize that the transport- ation infrastructure between our communities is different in 8444 British Columbia Debates Monday, April 29, 2019

the north than it is in the south. It’s different in the Interior than it is on the coast. [10:30 a.m.] Every single British Columbian’s transportation needs should be met by a government. They shouldn’t be impeded. We should make sure we have safe highways. We make sure that standards exist to ascertain what projects need to be pri- oritized. I hope that there’s a robust system in place to make sure that when there’s resurfacing or when there are special safety projects that need to take place or when there needs to be a bridge replacement, it’s done on the basis of what is needed first and foremost.

Some of us might decry the fact that we don’t get enough gravel for an island road or we don’t…. Deputy Speaker:Thank you, Member. N. Simons:I thank the member for his comments. D. Davies: I’ d like to thank, of course, the member for Powell River–Sunshine Coast for his remarks, and just to touch on a couple of those that he raised. Going back to the Taylor Bridge…. It started out that it used to have monthly maintenance. It’s now a couple times a week that the bridge is closed down for maintenance. These are things that are above and beyond natural disasters.

This is a bridge that is in the final stages of its life. It is certainly something on the forefront of all of our minds. He also mentioned the maintenance contracts. I’m going to maybe take this opportunity, as well, to recognize the maintenance contractors around the province that do incredible work. We’ve just had a change in maintenance contractors. I certainly want to thank YRB for the hard work that they’ve done over many years in the North Peace and welcome Interior Roads as the new contractor, as they take on the incredible challenges that we face in rural B.C.

While the safety of rural roads is first and foremost, I also wanted to touch briefly on the economic importance. To quote a piece out of the B.C. government website, it says: “Resource roads are a highly valued part of B.C. ’s transport- ation network and economic development. ” The upkeep of these rural roads is critically important for industries such as oil and gas, forestry, mining and a number of other resources that we depend on in this province. If a resource road becomes unstable, we won’t have access to these critical resources.

They also deserve roads that are safe for their use, which requires well maintained as well as keeping up to cur- rent codes. The responsibility, again, for this falls on us here in this chamber. Many of us here in this province enjoy the benefits of the revenues that these industries bring to our province, both on the large scale with regards to a strong economy and the fin- ancial basis for public spending as well as on the family level, where they provide an income for all of us to provide for our families.

Most importantly, though, we cannot expose the men and women that work in these industries to unsafe conditions. It’s our responsibility, again, to keep them safe, and rural roads are a critical piece of this. So what do we do about this? Well, I think the first step is to listen to the people that use the roads the most. I know that the Peace River regional district has come together and put out a rural roads in the North Peace economic initiative.

Starting in 2018, the regional district has been reaching out to the public, industry, stakeholders and all affected groups — what is needed to improve the safety and the conditions of our rural roads, specifically in the Peace. In my mind, the regional district is taking great opportunities, and I hope others follow suit. With that, thank you very much for the opportunity to speak on the importance of rural roads in British Columbia. A FOREST OF JOBS D. Routley:I rise today to speak about a forest of jobs, about the forestry industry in British Columbia.

It’s an industry that British Columbians were very proud of. For a time, it was very difficult to be proud of the industry because of the amount of conflict that it created. It still does that, but I think we need to find our way back to being very proud of a very renewable and sustainable industry. My own history with the industry is that my first paying job was cleaning log barges. I’ve worked in a sawmill. I’ve worked in a plywood veneer plant. I’ve been a logger. I’ve been a tree planter, and while I was a tree planter, I worked in a lumber yard and as a construction labourer.

At 57 now, I’ d have to live about 25 more years in order to see the trees I planted being harvested as 60-year-old second-growth forests. That’s at least a half a million trees. [10:35 a.m.] I’m proud of that. I think British Columbians deserve to be proud of their forest industry, partly because it’s theirs. We have $2 trillion worth of public forests in this province. The industry made $13 billion last year. That is the largest resource industry by a country mile. It’s some- thing that We need to find a way to reduce conflict over and to build bridges to create more prosperity and oppor- tunity for everyone.

I ask myself: what is our obligation when it comes to public policy with this industry? Currently there are 57,000 people working in the industry in 140 communities across the province, the knock-on benefits of that being thousands more jobs and economic activity. We want all British Col- umbians to benefit from their forests. That includes First Nations, first and foremost; industry, large and small; and workers and the communities they live in. This is the principle of nurturing and building an asset that you have. That seems a basic business test. There is a head shake. It’s a test.

Ask British Columbians what they think we should do. They’ll say: “Get the highest value for what you take from our forests. ” What does that mean? It’s simple, really. Ensure that the public interest is paramount when decisions are made with Monday, April 29, 2019 British Columbia Debates 8445

public policy affecting forests, encourage aspects of the industry that are of high value, and ensure that industries, secondary industries and communities have access to wood fibre before it’s exported raw. This is something that leads from that all the way to developing and leading efforts such as building tall building components and the use of wood in all sorts of different applications. How would we not do that? Well, we would not disable government’s oversight role. We would not fail to apply the rules as they exist. We would not remove public interest as a paramount principle.

We would not deregulate wantonly, regardless of the impacts on worker safety and the industry and the environment. And we would not allow the students to mark their own tests. What I mean by that is that the professional reliance mod- el that was used in the province and has been used in the province…. A friend of mine described it as asking the com- panies to write their own speeding ticket. Well, how many of us would write our own speeding ticket? The member from Powell River excepted because he actually did.

It’s not a fair expectation of the companies who operate in the industry to put the social responsibility on their shoulders without the oversight, regulatory control and inspections that gov- ernment should be doing in the public interest. There has been a 100 percent increase in wood waste in the coastal forest. This must change in order for the industry and the environment to be sustainable. Our obligation is to reconcile with First Nations and part- ner in the management of the resources of this province. Nowhere is it more important than in the forest industry.

I went to a truck loggers event where a number of people were standing up and saying: “My family has been in the industry for three generations. My family company has been here for 80 years. My family has made the commitment to this industry over three generations. ” Then a gentleman stood up, and he said: “My family has been in this industry for 5,000 years. ” He was a First Nations logger. This is our responsibility — to work together, to partner in the public interest and to make reconciliation mean some- thing beyond words. We need to reduce our footprint on the environment and with climate.

The lungs of the planet are a healthy forest, and the heart of a thriving economy is a healthy forest. The same thing — one cannot exist without the other in British Columbia. We need to increase investment in employment and bene- fit all British Columbians. We need to build that pride, settle conflict, provide opportunity and maximize prosperity. C.

Oakes:I’m delighted today to have the opportunity to respond to the member for Nanaimo–North Cowichan and to talk about forestry and the people who exist within the forest economy. [10:40 a.m.] Now, the member for Nanaimo–North Cowichan may find it difficult to be proud of the forest sector and the forest economy. I am not. I am proud to stand in this Legislature and talk about how proud I am of the forest sector and the hard-working men and women that have worked in this sec- tor for many, many years.

I have the privilege of representing one of the most integ- rated and innovative forest manufacturing regions in North America. I have the opportunity to have had a front-row seat witnessing world-leading advancements in research, forest innovations and efforts working to address critical chal- lenges in our communities, including climate change and housing affordability. I have witnessed successful partnerships roll out between governments and industry.

I’ve experienced the changes — initiatives like industrial entrepreneurship partnering with governments to develop a new renewable forest economy several decades ago, with the example led by the first B.C. bioenergy strategy in the late 2000s. I have seen investments in impacting fibre optimization. I have seen the development of new economies and new value-added sectors. Last week I was incredibly proud to attend the annual general meeting of West Fraser Mills in Quesnel.

Surroun- ded by the community, employees and family of the original founders, I was reminded of how far our forest economy and sector has come. The sweat and hard work of three young men — Sam, Bill and Pete Ketcham — together with a founding group of employees have laid a foundation for West Fraser that thrives today. Six decades later the company has grown from the ori- ginal 12-person crew at Two Mile Flat to become the largest lumber producer in North America. I was proud that they chose Quesnel to come and hold their annual general meeting.

I appreciate the efforts of our industry, our employees and our hard-working small businesses that rely on this sector. The forest sector provides jobs both directly and indirectly in significant numbers in British Columbia. There are con- cerns with the legislative bills and policies being brought for- ward by this government. Direct attacks on our rural eco- nomies — whether it be carbon taxes, changes in legislation, regulations — decisions that are having a real impact on our communities…. Forest-dependent communities are losing jobs at record alarming rates.

Since taking office in 2017, the forest industry has lost the equivalent of five direct jobs and ten to 15 indirect jobs per day. In fact, a labour market survey…. Under this government, British Columbia has lost nearly 2,000 jobs in natural resources — including in forestry — in the month of March alone. Last week we heard of the curtailments of the Canfor operations in British Columbia. Under this government, their policies and decisions that are being taken are having a real impact on British Columbians’ lives.

I would like to respond to comments made by Nanaimo– North Cowichan about the importance that the forest sector has had — to drive climate change and housing affordability. West Fraser has become a world leader in energy transform- ation. They generated the equivalent of one million barrels of 8446 British Columbia Debates Monday, April 29, 2019

oil from carbon-neutral energy, biomass heat and green elec- tricity, located at our B.C. wood-producing facilities. West Fraser operates two of the world’s largest biomass power generators, in Chetwynd and Fraser Lake. Overall, they’ve replaced fuel sources by increasing the carbon-neut- ral biomass energy that they consume. Sixty percent of their energy needs company-wide are met through biomass fuel energy. For context, bioenergy represents about 5 percent of Canada’s total primary energy resources.

Not an academic exercise and certainly not a dinosaur industry — real action, real change with real results for climate change. Let us look at how the forest sector and people are taking action also on investing in wood manufacturing products to support the supply side of housing affordability. For decades, leadership has been taken. D. Routley:Thank you to the member for Cariboo North for that presentation, although I think a guy named Corky Evans is throwing rolled-up socks at the TV right now.

That’s how he copes with the presentations from the other side, he tells me, because it is frustrating to hear that. [10:45 a.m.] In fact, in 2013, there were 6.7 million cubic metres of raw logs exported from this province. Since the 1990s, the…. That’s an increase of 500 percent, 30 percent of the coast har- vest. Vancouver Island and the coast lost 6,800 jobs between ’01 and ’14. That’s a decline of 41 percent. We lost 30,000 jobs provincially. This was before the housing crisis of ’08 and after the deregulation that was undertaken by the pre- vious government.

The coast saw 68 mills close between ’01 and 2011, a 38 percent decline. The coast lost 17 large mills since 2000, a 47 percent decline. Idled mills are everywhere because of a lack of fibre, while raw log exports increased. Half of the coast value-added industry was lost. Consolidation allowed large companies to squeeze small companies out of business. Up to 1.5 million to two million hectares of public lands in this province are not sufficiently restocked or planted, and silviculture com- panies can’t make a living. Other provinces?

Well, B.C. gets one job per 1,400 cubic metres of trees; Ontario, four times that; Quebec, three times that. Since the 1990s, B.C. ’s effi- ciency has gone down by 50 percent. That’s less than 800 metres per job. Manufacturing sales in the province per 1,000 metres cut from our forests, $160,000. In Ontario, that’s $865,000; in Quebec, that’s $467,000. There have been 16 straight damning reports on this performance.

We mean to create new opportunities, ensure that fibre is available to secondary manufacturers, communities, First Nations and the industries, such as pulp and paper and the bioeconomy, that rely on residuals. We see the industry as a source of great innovation. It’s in fact a high-tech industry. The fastest log-peeling operation in North America is about 50 kilometres north of here. They’ve spent $400,000 to precisely hit the centre of a tree in spinning the log. It’s never been done at that speed before. That’s in Nanaimo. We need to be technological and process leaders.

We need to do more than we have before, and we aim to do that. SCIENCE BASED WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT M. Bernier:It’s an honour to stand up and speak. Y ou know, I was going to be talking a little bit about science- based wildlife management. Actually, I think, it’s a great segue — after what I just heard from the member opposite, for Nanaimo–North Cowichan — when we talk about the proper use of the back country, the proper decision-making that’s going to support communities.

Contrary to what the member just said, it’s too bad that what he said doesn’t translate into proper policy that would actually sustain what he is trying to accomplish. Right now government is putting forward policies that are doing the exact opposite. In fact, in my riding, instead of using science-based wildlife management when they look at trying to make policy decisions for the back country, they’re not using any of that.

They’re coming forward and just doing a cookie-cutter approach that could, effectively, in my riding alone put over 500 forestry workers out of work because of decisions that the government is making, rather than looking at a science- based approach of what’s actually the best use of the back country and the best use for sustaining the environment. It’s rather disappointing when we hear one thing and we don’t see it actually translating into fact. Let me set the stage a little bit about why science-based management is important.

I know that the former minister when we were in government, the member for Kelowna- Mission, used to tell me that one of the hardest things is making decisions in government based on fact, based on science, rather than the emotional pressures that you sometimes get from people and from groups who don’t have all the information and are focused solely on maybe one sector or one goal. Maybe it’s shutting down the back country completely. [10:50 a.m.] Right now we’re faced with tough decisions.

When you look back at what was done since 2001, 2.3 million hectares of land in the province of British Columbia were protected, with provincial parks, with conservancies, with more ecolo- gical areas. This was all taken into consideration using sci- ence, using professional people that were coming to the table with stakeholders to make sure that we had all that informa- tion when we were basing decisions as a government — not a small group, not one group or two groups. It was about con- sultation and working with the people of British Columbia.

In fact, in 2005, when we were looking at a caribou recov- ery program here in B.C., we wanted to look at a science- based approach, because it was right thing to do. So we actu- ally put a panel together of scientific people in the province, 14 people who worked together in the province to come for- ward with recommendations to protect our caribou but also Monday, April 29, 2019 British Columbia Debates 8447

to work for almost half a year in public consultation with stakeholders, with local governments, with people affected in the areas to make sure that as decisions were being made, they were the proper environmentally sound decisions for resource extraction, and they were the proper science-based decisions for management of our back country, for our ungulates and our predators. But it was also important to make sure that that was in consultation with all of the people in the area that would be affected.

Part of that was making sure that decisions were going to be made, proper use of the land base, that were also going to also promote the sustainability of com- munities and jobs and for them to make sure that the people who live in and enjoy rural B.C. had the opportun- ity to continue doing that. Decisions were made around predator management. Right now, up in my region, this is a huge issue.

When we’re looking at making science-based decisions, we look at our decline of ungulates, but we also look at the increase in our wolf population — wolverines, grizzly bear, black bear — who are actually one of the largest contributors to the mor- tality rates of our ungulates in our back country. Contrary to what government’s trying to say of just maybe putting a circle on a map and saying this is a no-go zone for human activity, they’re not holistically looking at the sci- ence-based reasons for what we need to do to preserve our back country, to preserve our species at risk.

Again, when we were in government, that was why we made sure that it was a science-based approach and not emotional. In fact, I think it was just last week that we had the David Suzuki Foundation come out and make the drastic, in my opinion — and I would hope that the members opposite would agree — comment that says we should shut down back-country use in the province of British Columbia for skiing, for snowmobiling, for hiking, for back-country use, because that’s an impact to our biodiversity and an impact to our wildlife.

The problem is that we have groups like this that are out there giving pressure to the federal government and to the NDP government to actually shut down the back country. What they fail to say is that it’s to reach their ulti- mate goal, which is to slow down or actually stop resource extraction in the back country. Now, the people who live in rural B.C. want to see our wildlife thrive. They want to see our back countries used. They want to see a holistic approach. It’s our backyard. We respect it. We work there. We live there. We play there. But it can’t be considered just one arm of a decision.

Y ou have to look at the entire issue. That’s why, when I see decisions being made that are not based on science and based on emotion, it’s important to stand up in this House and say that that is the wrong approach and we need do better. Lives are at stake, not just wildlife, but we’re talking human activity and the existence of rural, and especially small rural, communities. If we don’t have them, we don’t have the small businesses that support them. We don’t have the large corporations that help make sure that we have the jobs for people to live in our rural com- munities.

I look forward to the comments from the members opposite, because I’ d like them to actually be able to stand in this House and say that the decisions they will be mak- ing that right now are negatively affecting small, rural communities will slow down, that they will give more time, have more consultation and have decisions based on science, not emotion. [10:55 a.m.] R. Leonard:I thank the member for Peace River South for raising the important topic of science-based wildlife man- agement, and I’ d like to share a positive local science-based wildlife management story from Courtenay-Comox.

Comox Valley Project Watershed has undertaken many projects to restore habitat which supports the recovery of fish and wildlife. One major initiative that is underway right now involves a brownfield site where a sawmill on the estu- ary closed in the mid-2000s. This project has been given a name in the language of the K’ ómoks peoples. It’s Kus-kus- sum, which refers to this land as a historic tree burial site of the K’ ómoks First Nation. I’m proud that this very local non-profit stepped into reconciliation with the K’ ómoks peoples, along with the city of Courtenay.

They’re all moving together with respect and intention to restore the property to a natural state. In the end, K’ ómoks First Nation will retain ownership and take on the stewardship of a rich habitat that will nurture fish and wildlife as well as mitigate the impacts of climate change for human settlement. It’s an amazing recipe of science mixed with a very human dynamic, where all interests are served.

I think the member opposite mentioned the science team that, in 2005, reported on how the caribou have been in B.C. for over 10,000 years and how the geographic distribution of First Peoples was based on the geographic distribution of the caribou. The caribou have been essential to Indigenous people for food and clothing for millennia. The abundance of the caribou began its drastic decline after the introduction of the industrial world to its habitat. The federal government placed it on the threatened wild- life species list in 2003.

I have to ask myself, as others: what impactful actions did the former provincial government take when, 15 years later, the federal government raised the threat to the southern mountain caribou to “immi- nent” in May last year? Immediate action is required where we face a federal emergency order to protect caribou and their habitat from further development and disturbance, under the Species at Risk Act.

Fortunately, Canada has been willing to work with the province and First Nations to create agreements out- lining overarching commitments with measures and stra- tegies for recovery while minimizing the impacts to local government, communities and industry. These agreements are novel and complex. The rights and interests of First Nations are protected by the constitution, 8448 British Columbia Debates Monday, April 29, 2019

and it is incumbent that caribou recovery involve govern- ment-to-government processes with them. Like the Kus- kus-sum initiative in my community, the Peace can embrace reconciliation in action as the West Moberly and Saulteau First Nations, with their shared interest, take ongoing lead- ership in the caribou recovery. Science and socioeconomic interests are not mutually exclusive to effective wildlife management. The caribou is the most studied species, yet the populations continue to decline.

The four key threats are not independent of one another, so action on all fronts is required, with emphasis on the biggest threats. The member opposite mentioned the first and most important: predation. The second is habitat changes; the third, disturbances; and fourth, climate change. Monitoring and updating the plan annually can pave the way for eventu- al recovery that we have not yet seen. We know that measures to recover caribou will have impacts on economic activities in and around protected habitat, and we recognize that people are concerned.

So how do we save the southern mountain caribou from extinction while minimizing impacts to people and the economy of the area? A trusted leader in the Peace, Coun. Blair Lekstrom, has been hired for the extended consultation process. This is a time to make sure that the public, industry, recreation groups and local governments can have confidence that their interests will inform the final Canada-B.C. agreements and decisions. [11:00 a.m.] [R. Chouhan in the chair.] The province has also commissioned an independent regional economic analysis, with input from local govern- ments and businesses.

I’m particularly interested in the hab- itat mitigation and offsetting program to be developed by B.C. This will drive industry innovation to achieve improved caribou habitat quality and availability, rather than being a contributor to the caribou decline. With agreements in place, with B.C. at the table to assert B.C. interests, the path forward must and will lead to success for the ecosystem of the Peace — caribou and human alike. M. Bernier:Thanks to the member for Courtenay-Comox for the lovely story of what she experienced in her riding.

Unfortunately, it seems to be the exception, not the rule, when we’re dealing with government right now. The member was quick to tout that it was successful because all interested parties were at the table talking about a successful opportunity, working together. Well, that is exactly contrary to what’s happening right now. Again, the members are going to actually say what works, but then they’re not following it through with action. That’s why we need to actually do what we need to do in the rest of the province — what the member in Courtenay-Comox said worked in her riding — because that’s not taking place.

All interested parties need to be at the table. Of course, the member mentions the fact that West Moberly and Saulteau were at the table. Well, in her example, though, she said that local First Nations and other stakeholders and everybody were at the table. That did not take place in the decisions right now that are taken on the ground up in my part of the world. But right across rural British Colum- bia, the member said that nothing took place when it came to caribou protection.

Well, in fact, in 2017, $27 million was put forward to make sure that we had proper planning taking place on the land base that was not going to negatively affect communities. In fact, it was going to invite those communities to the table to be part of the solution. It was going to invite communit- ies and corporations, industries, small business, everyone, to say: how can we work together to protect our back country that we love and use so much, and one that’s going to pro- tect the wildlife? How do we do that using a science-based approach? The member was quick to mention, too, her first point about predation.

It was this government that actually created part of the problems in my area when they did a blanket approach and actually said that we were going to stop grizzly bear hunting in all of B.C. without looking at the science- based information, knowing that that was going to be an impact, a negative impact, for the wildlife — the ungulates, specifically the caribou — in my area. Again, when we hear that almost 75 percent of these animals are being harvested, being taken by predators, obvi- ously that has to be part of a solution.

Y ou cannot just say: “Shut down the back country to forestry and all will be good. ” That is not how this works. It’s interesting. The member also had to bring up a city councillor in Dawson Creek, who government had to hire. What’s unfortunate is that the rural caucus on this side of the House, local MLAs…. Almost every rural MLA has tried to have meetings to share their information with this gov- ernment, and they failed to listen. Unfortunately, they had to hire someone because they didn’t listen to us. Hon. J.

Darcy:I would ask that the House consider pro- ceeding with Motion 7, standing in the name of the member for Delta North. Deputy Speaker:Hon. Members, unanimous consent of the House is required to proceed with Motion 7 without disturbing the priorities of the motions preceding it on the order paper. Leave granted. Monday, April 29, 2019 British Columbia Debates 8449

Private Members’ Motions MOTION 7 — W AIVING OF CABINET PRIVILEGE ON DOCUMENTS RELATED TO MONEY LAUNDERING R. Kahlon:It’s my privilege today to bring forward this motion. [Be it resolved that this House urge that the former Members of the Executive Council of the previous government agree to waive Cabinet privilege on all documents related to money laundering as requested by the Attorney General on August 10, 2018.] Money laundering. Money laundering comes up all the time in my community, perhaps because there is a casino coming very soon. But it’s a very top-of-mind issue.

To take a moment to step back and think about the impact that money laundering has had in our society, in our province, in our communities, is staggering. [11:05 a.m.] Fentanyl. Casinos. Housing. Vancouver model. We are famous in the world for the Vancouver model. We have organized crime units coming in, flooding our streets with fentanyl, using the proceeds, going into casinos, making it legitimate money and then parking it in luxury homes throughout this province, which then makes it unaffordable for everyone else. Housing crisis, fentanyl crisis — using our casinos to do it.

People come up to me all the time and say: “How did this happen? Why didn’t anybody do anything about it?” Let’s just take a little trip down memory lane. Let’s look through how we got to this point. In December 2007, the Integrated Illegal Gaming Enforce- ment Team prepared a report on its future, warning that high-level illegal gambling targets would conduct their oper- ations with impunity if the unit was disbanded. That’s December 2007. In November 2008, reporter Sean Holman revealed that the B.C.

Liberal Party accepted $250,000 in donations from private bingo halls and community gaming centre interests between 2002 and 2007. This is despite an internal party rule that they have, banning donations from gaming. They were finding ways to get through their own internal rules. In January 2009, the Integrated Illegal Gaming Enforce- ment Team prepares a threat assessment report, warning that B.C. casinos are extremely vulnerable to money laun- dering. They asked for an expanded role to be included in B.C. casinos. Well, what was the result of that report?

Four months after that report came out, the Housing Minister, who’s the member for Langley East, eliminated the funding for this unit. He disbanded the unit four months after getting a report from them saying: “There’s a crisis, and we need more supports to do the work. ” He suggested the unit wasn’t cost-effective. He told the reporters later on: “They didn’t have a business plan. ” Well, lo and behold, a few months later, a document gets leaked, and the report shows…. Actually, Cdr. Fred Pinnock spoke to journalists, stating the team had, in fact, a report, had a business plan.

He comments: “I’m not sure how motiv- ated the provincial government, ” meaning the B.C. Liberal government, “was to have high-profile enforcement of illegal gaming in this province. ” That’s four months after saying that there was no business plan, and this information gets leaked to the media. Let’s go a little bit forward. At that time, the member for Langley East also told reporters: “I know what they’re saying, but I don’t agree with them. ” I’ d be really interested to hear from him whether he agrees with them now, knowing all this information is out in the public. In January 2011, Insp.

Barry Baxter, from the RCMP integrated proceeds of crimes section, spoke to media. He said that there were “sophisticated money-laundering activ- ities” being done by organized crime. He highlighted a peri- od of three months in 2010 where employees in two Lower Mainland casinos reported a combined total of $8 million in 90 large transactions on an average day. Think about that for a second: an unbelievable number. Then the B.C. Liberal minister, who also happened to be the member for Langley East at that time, criticized the inspector. He said: “Y eah, I know what he said, and I don’t agree with him.

Neither do…his superiors in the RCMP . ” Well, we’ll get back to that very soon. Following the request by the Solicitor General, the B.C. office of civil forfeiture prepared a report on money laun- dering in B.C. casinos. The report recommended bringing back the RCMP unit. The head of the gaming policy and enforcement branch identified 543 suspicious transactions, $39.5 million, between 2010 and 2011, one year. The list goes on. July 2015 — let’s go even closer now. The money-laundering crisis reaches a historic level. One casino accepted $13.5 million…. Deputy Speaker:Thank you, Member. R.

Kahlon:There’s a lot more to say, hon. Speaker. Five minutes is not enough, but I’ve got lots of colleagues who are up to speak. P . Milobar:There’s absolutely no doubt that money laun- dering is a serious criminal issue and must continue to be addressed.

As the previous speaker mentioned, there is something out there called the Vancouver model, but if we’re going on a trip down memory lane, I think we’ d be remiss if we didn’t actually talk about the Nanaimo model of money laundering. [11:10 a.m.] The Nanaimo model of money laundering involved the Nanaimo Commonwealth Holding Society and the corrup- tion scandal under the previous NDP government. That involved fraud, theft, laundering of gaming moneys and stealing from nuns. In fact, those cabinet documents have not been shared with the public.

Those cabinet confidences 8450 British Columbia Debates Monday, April 29, 2019

have not been shared by the NDP . One would think that the first place this government…. Interjections. Deputy Speaker:Members, one speaker at a time. P . Milobar:One would think that this government would have first addressed the genesis of money laundering in this province, under their watch, with this motion today. But no. Instead what we hear is a hyper-partisan attempt yet again, by the Attorney General, to hyper-partisan a very serious situation in our province.

The reality is, as the previous government, we did take steps to address the problems, including the creation of a $4.5 million Joint Illegal Gaming Investigation Team, and that resulted in a decrease of these incidents by about 60 per- cent. In fact, the Ernst and Y oung report that was commis- sioned by the Attorney General, under his watch, but didn’t come out with the type of narrative he wanted, got buried. I notice that the members opposite don’t want to talk about the fact that Ernst and Y oung, commissioned by the current Attorney General, actually verified a lot of these facts as well.

Let’s look at what has happened for the Attorney Gen- eral over the last two years. There has been press release after press release. There has been precious little done. In fact, the highest-profile case so far was conducted during the previous government’s term, and it fell apart under the current Attorney General’s watch. In fact, what has come to light is that it’s taken the Attorney General two years, two reports and an outside person looking at it to come back and let the Attorney General know that there are no federal RCMP resources working on money laundering in British Columbia.

Now, I heard the Attorney General’s answer to that, saying that the reality is that it took an expert like Mr. German to delve in and ask those hard-hitting questions. Y et the Attor- ney General summarized it in four questions. Y ou ask what the complement is. Y ou ask what the funded complement is. Y ou ask how many boots on the ground there are. Then you find out right away, from the RCMP , that you have a prob- lem. This is all the Attorney General had to do. In fact, the Solicitor General acknowledged the next day that he has known for two years there has been a shortage.

So apparently, the Attorney General just doesn’t talk to the RCMP; he doesn’t talk to the Solicitor General two seats away in this House. The reality is that the RCMP do share that information, especially with elected officials. Any mayor in this province could tell you that they sit down regularly with the RCMP . They know how many their complement is in their city. They know how many federal resources are in their city. And they know how many provincial resources are in their city and where the short-term and long-term disability leaves are.

In fact, I questioned the Environment Minister last estim- ates about the conservation service, and even the Environ- ment Minister could answer knowledgeably about the lack of resources or long-term disability or leave requirements within the conservation officer service. Y et here we have an Attorney General who took two years to figure that out with the RCMP . It’s totally not acceptable. To have some red herring motion like this, when in fact they’re in the Supreme Court right now….

The Attorney General is in Supreme Court fighting to keep cabinet con- fidentiality of documents under his watch, to not be released as part of a court case. It’s laughable that this motion would come forward trying to paint it as there’s something unto- ward going on. Perhaps if the Attorney General had spent the last two years actually doing his job of going after money launderers, instead of a hyper-partisan press conference of the week every time the news gets bad… Interjections. Deputy Speaker:Members. P . Milobar:…for the current government….

Every time the news gets bad for the current government, and that’s quite often these days, it seems we get another money-laun- dering report. The last one was the great nugget of the pre-emptive release of one phase of the phase 2 report, which actually took two years to come to tell you what you could have solved with a two-minute phone call with the RCMP that would have told you there were no resources in British Columbia. Have they added any provincial resources? No, they haven’t. They’ve spent two years doing nothing. They haven’t added any enforcement. They haven’t added any type of con- victions.

They haven’t chased anyone down. There have been no civil forfeitures. Instead, they go around and bleat and bleat and bleat on about trying to get cabinet documents that they know should remain confidential. J. Routledge:I’ d like to thank the member for Delta North for moving this very important motion.

I welcome the opportunity to engage in a debate that helps us come to terms with dirty money and how it has become normalized in this province — a debate in which we can talk about how we can work together across the aisle to expose it, to put an end to it and to prosecute the criminals who have gotten rich because, for years, they’ve been able to hide their illegal source of wealth. [11:15 a.m.] I had hoped we would be able to have this discussion across the aisle, because this is not a victimless crime. We are all touched by it.

We all have stories of how it’s affected ourselves, our families, our neighbours and our communit- ies. I’ve had a constituent sit in my office, in my community office in Burnaby North, sobbing and showing me a photo of her son, who had been injured. He was a promising young Monday, April 29, 2019 British Columbia Debates 8451

athlete who had been injured and, because his pain couldn’t be controlled, started self-medicating. She found him dead on the living-room floor from an overdose. There are seniors living in their cars in my community because they can’t find affordable housing. We all have stor- ies. The official opposition has risen in this House to share stories and demand action on the opioid crisis and the hous- ing crisis. Y et they have remained curiously silent about the root cause of these emergencies that have taken so many lives and taken the joy out of so many other lives. No, they have not been speaking about this.

Their silence on money launder- ing has been deafening. In fact, it is the Green Party, not the B.C. Liberals, who have been pressing the Attorney General about it in question period, and he has been responding. Here are just some of the things that he’s been saying. In all cases, we will be moving quickly “to slam the door…on dirty money in B.C. casinos and cut off funding to organized crime in our province. It won’t be easy to reverse a decade and a half of neglect, but we are not waiting to get started.

The era of inaction and denial is over. ” Here’s something else he’s been saying, and I read from the letter that he sent to the Leader of the Official Opposi- tion. The former minister “has recently said that the previ- ous government did ‘everything we could’ to crack down on money laundering. In that light, I am requesting that the offi- cial opposition support our efforts in fighting this criminal activity in British Columbia.

It is our government’s desire to continue to aggressively pursue measures to counter money laundering but to do so in a manner that does not duplicate unsuccessful efforts” from the previous government. He asked that in a formal letter on August 10, 2018, almost a year ago. He hasn’t even gotten a civil response, let alone the cooperation requested. In fact, their House Leader called his request “playing politics. ” Really? Slamming the door on dirty money is not a game. It is not a political sport. This is lives lost, lives ruined and dreams dashed.

It’s been estimated, in reports commissioned by our gov- ernment — not the previous government — that as much as $1 billion a year was being laundered in British Columbia. That’s money that was largely accumulated in $20 bills, taken from drug addicts on the streets of Vancouver, too many of whom are now dead from overdoses or tainted doses — too many families torn apart and mourning loved ones. Even the Washington Post calls the situation in Vancouver an emer- gency. This is not a political game. No wonder the public are demanding answers and accountability.

It’s perplexing that the official opposition has chosen to trivialize this crisis. The member for Langley East was the Solicitor General for much of the time when the so- called Vancouver model of money laundering was being per- fected. After a long period of silence, he finally came out and defended his government’s track record by saying: “We tried. We did all that we could. ” Like what? What did they do? That’s what the Attorney General has been trying to find out. If they took steps that didn’t work, enlighten us. Why make us reinvent the wheel? Lives and livelihoods are at stake here. [11:20 a.m.] M.

Morris:I’ve listened to the motion, and I’ve listened to the rhetoric, mostly from members opposite, on this. I have to say one thing right from the outset. Of course, a lot of this is based on my 32 years in the RCMP , much of it as a senior manager, up until I retired. But again, as a member of the executive council in the previous government and the Solicitor General in the previous government, I’m very much aware of what’s been going on in the world of money laun- dering and organized crime. The information that government members have….

They wouldn’t have that if it hadn’t been for the RCMP invest- igations that were ongoing at the particular time that they formed government. They wouldn’t have the pictures of the laundry bags or the hockey bags full of money if it wasn’t for the work that the RCMP and the gaming folks were doing in British Columbia at the time. The Joint Illegal Gaming Investigation Team was some- thing that came about when I was the Solicitor General because we identified that there were issues with money laundering in casinos and elsewhere throughout the province here.

That team has been very successful since its implementation in the province here. The disclosure of information that the government is alluding to, and wanting access to the executive council, to the cabinet documents that we had here…. The disclosure of information is something that has to be very carefully con- sidered, particularly when it pertains to illegal gaming or criminal investigations. When I was in the RCMP …. The same thing still holds true today. Information is never released by an investigator unless there is a need-to-know basis for other police officers or anybody else that is involved in it.

The police don’t dis- close the information on the investigation that they’re work- ing on to all the police members around. They disclose it to only people that have a need to know. It is so critical to safe- guard the integrity of that investigation so we don’t blow it, so we don’t make a mistake in the investigation, so we don’t spend millions of dollars on something that can never be prosecuted at the end of the day. I think this is something that the Attorney needs to pay attention to when he looks at the disclosure of information himself.

He was privy to a briefing, as we were in the exec- utive council, with respect to ongoing issues. He was privy to the contents of a confidential report, and he released that report in September of 2017. The release of that information I believe compromised the ongoing investigation that had been going on already for a couple of years by that time. There were agents involved. There were undercover oper- ators involved. There were millions of dollars that had been expended. It was an international investigation that had complications of its own just because of that.

Because of the release of that information, it compromised that investiga- 8452 British Columbia Debates Monday, April 29, 2019

tion. I believe, ultimately, at the end of the day, it comprom- ised the prosecution of, or the ability to prosecute, that par- ticular case. There are ongoing investigations on money laundering as I speak in this House today. There are at least a half a dozen I was aware of when I was the Solicitor General. These are complex investigations. We are going…. The RCMP and the police forces involved — and there are international police forces involved — are targeting the top individuals on this. These things take time. I just want to finish up, and I see my time is getting a little low here.

The safeguarding of cabinet documents and the confiden- tiality of what is discussed in cabinet by the executive coun- cil have been supported year over year over year by courts throughout the Commonwealth and by the Supreme Court of Canada here in British Columbia. As the chief justice wrote in a recent decision: “The British democratic tradition, which informs the Canadian tradition, has long affirmed the confidentiality of what is said in the cabinet room and documents and papers prepared for cabinet dis- cussions. The reasons are obvious.

Those charged with the heavy re- sponsibility of making government decisions must be free to discuss all aspects of the problem that come before them and to express all manner of views without fear that what they read, say or act on will be later subject to public scrutiny. ” This is the problem that the Attorney has.

He wants access to this, but he doesn’t have the confidence of the police forces and many other agencies involved in it because he just so indiscreetly released information that jeopardized the ongo- ing investigations that the police forces across Canada were involved in, dealing with money laundering in British Col- umbia. He jeopardized millions of dollars. B.

D’Eith:It was interesting that members on the other side had to go back to before, I think, one of our members was even born to talk about this issue, but in fact, I think you would have to look at more recent history. [11:25 a.m.] I wonder how historians would look at the 16 years that the B.C. Liberals were in government. Perhaps the histori- an…. It would read: “The self-serving 16, the big money era, ” or something to that extent. I wonder what they would look at. They might look at the dumpster fire of ICBC.

They may look at the contract-can- celling Christy Clark, ripping up education documents, per- haps doubling MSP premiums, unfair tolls on bridges, B.C. Hydro mismanagement. Or maybe it will just be the mean- spiritedness of cutting bus passes for people with disabilit- ies. I think all of these things will probably be in the history books, looking back on that 16 years. I think what will stand out is also dirty money and the fact that we really had a blind-eye boondoggle under the B.C. Liberals, as is coming out and becoming very apparent in the reports that Peter German has been putting out.

Clearly, the warning signs were there, and there was wilful blindness. The member for Prince George–Mackenzie spoke. He was actually the Public Safety Minister. While he was minister, he acknowledged that there were vacancies of 50 percent or more in RCMP positions dedicated to fighting money laun- dering. Despite this, nothing was done. Other examples. Eliminating the Integrated Illegal Gam- bling Enforcement Team in 2009. The member for Langley East, while he was minister, called the RCMP to crack down on Insp. Barry Baxter. What did he do?

He was sounding the alarm, the public alarm, about what was going on in 2011. B.C. Liberals intervening to raise betting limits, after all of this, against the warning of the regulators. Then, of course, the second report by Peter German, about real estate and how organized crime has significantly penetrated our hous- ing market, and there are links to the opioid crisis. Now, as we find out, there are billions of dollars that were laundered through B.C. real estate. This has helped to create the hous- ing crisis that we’re experiencing and contributed to the fentanyl epidemic. Of course, why would the B.C.

Liberals do anything about that? Their biggest corporate and individual donors made a killing during the dirty money decade. Maybe that’s what they’ll call it: the dirty money decade. I wonder what the his- torians will call it in the end. The revenues? Well, they helped balance the books, but they were never sustainable. Really, this was just destructive public policy. So what has been done? On the other side, they say noth- ing has been done. It couldn’t be further from the truth.

The Attorney General has been working since the day he got in on this matter, setting up independent reviews, reform- ing the B.C. gambling sector with the $10,000 cash excess limit. How about the regulators actually being on evenings and weekends and not just nine to five, Monday to Friday, because when do people gamble? Third-party business auditing firm. There are so many other things. The second prong, of course, of this is dealing with the real estate market, where the new condo and strata assign- ment integrity register for condo flipping is being intro- duced.

There’s another bill about hidden ownership that the Minister of Finance has brought in. Of course, the Minister of Finance is also empowering the Securities Commission. These are all tangible actions that have been taken decisively to deal with this. What we’re asking…. Perhaps the members on the other side would be interested in their legacy. If they are interested in that legacy, why wouldn’t they want to release the infor- mation that they have? Why wouldn’t they want that record? If they did do things, then let’s hear about it. Release those records, just like the Attorney General has asked.

I want to make sure that this whole idea that we can’t do that because if we do that, it might affect an investigation…. Well, the Attorney General has already said that he’s happy to take these in confidence. So let’s hear about this. Let’s get the documents put in, and then the Attorney General can have a look at that and decide. I encourage all the members on the other side. Support Monday, April 29, 2019 British Columbia Debates 8453

this motion. It’s important. If you really want your legacy to be known as the dirty money decade, then by all means, hide the information. [11:30 a.m.] J. Y ap:This is a motion that is designed to distract us from the Attorney General’s failure, this government’s failure to successfully prosecute money laundering, which we all acknowledge is a serious criminal issue. In fact, the previous B.C. Liberal government took steps, as we’ve heard, to address this problem, including the creation of a $4.5 million Joint Illegal Gaming Investigation Team. That resulted in a decrease of these incidents by 60 percent.

The highest profile case so far, as we’ve heard, was conducted during the previ- ous government’s term. But it was under this current Attor- ney General, who is more interested in playing politics, that the case fell apart, as we heard from my friend for Prince George–Mackenzie. It certainly came to light that it took this Attorney General two years and two outside investigations to figure out that B.C. has zero — zero — federal RCMP officers dedicated to money laundering. That’s utterly unbelievable. All the Attor- ney General had to do was pick up the phone, call the RCMP and find out.

Or send them a direct message on Twitter, or email them. But he was too busy playing politics. In fact, we have learned that the Government House Lead- er and Solicitor General knew that the RCMP had zero officers dedicated to money laundering. So the Attorney General could have simply walked down the hall of the Legislature to the Solicitor General’s office and got the infor- mation, but even that, he didn’t do. The Attorney General has wasted enough time playing politics with this significant issue. British Columbians want action. They want results. They don’t want any more innuendo from this Attorney General.

If the names, home addresses and licence plate numbers of these individuals are known, where are the arrests and prosecutions on money laundering? If the Attorney General has video footage of criminal suspects with their legendary hockey bags full of $20 bills, where are the arrests? Where are the charges? If the civil forfeiture office can impound crim- inal vehicles, why hasn’t that happened? The buck stops with the Attorney General, and so far he has little to show for his efforts.

British Columbians want answers, want action and deserve better than what they’ve been getting from this Attorney General and this govern- ment. Now, turning to the essence of Motion 7, the member for Delta North, through this motion, seeks to tamper with and potentially destroy a long-standing tradition of our system of governance, and that’s cabinet confidentiality. I know that the member for Delta North has not yet had the privilege of serving in cabinet. Perhaps one day he will be elevated and given the honour of a cabinet post.

If that day arrives, I’ve no doubt that he will cherish this principle of confidentiality. For a government of any political stripe to function, this principle of cabinet confidentiality must be in place. It must be upheld. The Premier and ministers must be able to freely confer, discuss, analyze and conclude on all matters, includ- ing difficult decisions. In fact, as we’ve heard, the courts of our land have weighed in on this important principle.

I will quote one reference — the Supreme Court of Canada. “The process of democrat- ic governance works best when cabinet ministers charged with government policy and decision-making are free to express themselves around the cabinet table unreservedly. In addition to ensuring candour in cabinet discussions, ” anoth- er important reason for protecting cabinet documents is to avoid creating or fanning ill-informed or capricious public or political criticism. Why are we here this morning debating this motion, which contemplates a change which is clearly not in the interest of British Columbians?

Well, as I said, this is a dis- traction. It’s a red herring. It’s a setup for a fishing expedition to troll for potentially embarrassing information — that may or may not be there — to perpetuate the Attorney General’s political games. But the argument will go both ways with cabinet confid- entiality, which is non-partisan. It doesn’t matter which gov- ernment we’re talking about. What examples might that be, you may ask, Mr. Speaker? Well, we’ve already heard about the legendary Nanaimo Commonwealth Holding Society scandal, where real money laundering happened under a previous NDP government.

And there’s also the fudge-it budget of the 1990s. I’m sure there were interesting cabinet discussions that happened during that time. [11:35 a.m.] Cabinet confidentiality is a fundamental cornerstone of our system of government. It should remain in place for all British Columbians. It should be steadfastly upheld now and forever. J. Brar:I’m very pleased to support this important and much-needed motion introduced by the member for Delta North urging that the previous government agree to waive cabinet privilege on all documents related to money laun- dering.

I have had the opportunity to listen to three members on the other side, and it seems to me that they have learned nothing. They have learned nothing from Peter German’s report and subsequent media reports about the sensitive issue of money laundering. This is the height of arrogance I have seen from any party in this Legislature. Money laundering is a serious problem that needs a ser- ious and coordinated response from all members of this House. Money laundering is linked to the opioid crisis and deaths on our streets. It is linked to skyrocketing housing costs that are pushing people out of our communities.

There is no doubt in my mind that the B.C. Liberals turned a blind eye to mounting evidence of money launder- ing in casinos while they were in government. The Peter Ger- man report paints a troubling picture of the previous gov- 8454 British Columbia Debates Monday, April 29, 2019

ernment — that they didn’t effectively respond to pervasive money laundering in B.C. casinos. German found they didn’t effectively detect, prevent and prosecute it. They turned a blind eye to it. A careful view of German’s report indicates a clear pattern of the B.C. Liberals failing to respond to clear warning signs of money laundering in B.C. casinos. Some of the examples of such a pattern are as follows. First, the B.C. Liberals eliminated the Integrated Illegal Gaming Enforcement Team in 2009, when money launder- ing was at its peak.

It should be noted that the province and the RCMP created this integrated team in 2004, amid growing concern that organized crime was expanding into gambling. But for some unknown reasons, the Liberals killed the integrated team in 2009, when money laundering was at its peak. The question is: why?

Secondly, when a senior RCMP inspector, Barry Baxter, had seen videos of stacks of $20 bills delivered to a casino cash cage and large gambling buy-ins from women who described themselves as housewives, he shared his suspi- cions with the CBC’s Eric Rankin, telling him that the casino industry appeared to have been targeted for very sophistic- ated money laundering activity by organized crime. What happened next? The former gaming minister, the member for Langley East, called the RCMP to stop Insp. Barry Baxter from sounding the alarm publicly about money laundering in 2011. The question is: why?

People deserve to know about why he intervened in that situation. Thirdly, the B.C. Liberals intervened to raise betting limits in 2004, against warnings from regulators. Again, the ques- tion is: why? Despite money laundering concerns from the province’s gambling regulator, officials in B.C. ’s Finance Min- istry intervened to allow B.C. Lottery Corp. to raise high- rollers’ betting limits to $100,000 per hand, as reported by Global News. It seems that greed, rather than the public good, was the key factor in this public policy decision.

People deserve to know the rationale behind this policy and who made this decision, based on what. [11:40 a.m.] The people of British Columbia know that the B.C. Liber- als turned a blind eye to mounting evidence of money laun- dering in casinos while they were in government. They not only failed to take action to stop money laundering; the evid- ence suggests that they made it easier for criminals to laun- der money by eliminating the dedicated enforcement units. I support the motion. R. Sultan:Cabinet privilege is important in any demo- cratic government.

Individuals charged with governing must enjoy the right to openly discuss various ideas, options and choices available to them in private. They must have the privilege of private, freewheeling debate before bringing final decisions to the Legislature for public debate or order-in-council or, perhaps, just taking them back to their ministry. The reasons for protecting such rights should be fairly obvious. As a result, the Supreme Court of Canada deems it necessary for these conversations to be private and protec- ted.

If statements in cabinet were subject to disclosure, if reporters or the public who are in the cabinet room, for example…. I even conjured up the physical challenge of squeezing in some spectator space in the cabinet cham- bers, which I’ve been privileged to attend from time to time in the past. Or even have all television present during cabinet meetings, a famous idea that Gordon Campbell tried. It didn’t last very long. It turned out that during the skits night, where they made fun of us, the reporters pointed out there were actually two concurrent cabinet meetings taking place.

There was the televised cabinet meeting and then, when it ended, they had the real cabinet meeting. So with that kind of, shall we say, skepticism, the televised cabinet meetings eventually faded into history. The reasons are obvious enough. Cabinets of all persua- sion are dealing with sensitive and complex matters, and it remains important that those deliberations remain private. It’s a fairly obvious concept, though, that some of the remarks today are from persons who don’t seem to grasp….

They are calling for cabinet privilege to be waived on com- plex and sensitive criminal matters — in this case, money laundering. Now, money laundering is an important issue, which must continue to preoccupy us. British Columbians are demanding action, and all of us agree. What British Columbians are not demanding is innuendo from the Attorney General, but that’s the steady diet they have been fed. Real action has, unfortunately, too often been replaced by rhetoric. The last government took real action to address the prob- lem, including the creation of a $4½ million Joint Illegal Gaming Investigation Team.

That measure alone resulted in a decrease in the incidents of money laundering. But of course, it didn’t stamp it out. Unfortunately, the highest profile case initiated during the previous government’s term now seems to be unravelling, which is a shameful travesty of justice if, in fact, that is true. Now, as my colleague from Richmond-Steveston has already observed, it took the NDP two years to solve the perplex police problem of finding out whether, actually, any police working on this file, from the federal government point of view….

Two years later, they finally realized that there weren’t any federal police officers assigned. I would say that was probably a failure of policing, on the part of the Attorney General’s office, of major magnitude. No wonder there’s been no real action on the real criminality that has been on display.

As, again, the member for Richmond-Steveston has observed, if we know their addresses, the licence plate num- bers of all those Maseratis that are presumably the object of asset acquisition, their memberships in all the fancy clubs and all the rest, why is there no action? [11:45 a.m.] These people, if we believe the statements of the Attorney Monday, April 29, 2019 British Columbia Debates 8455

General, are rather well known and flamboyant, frequently, in their public behavior. If the breaches of law are so obvious and transparent to the public, why doesn’t the Attorney Gen- eral do something about it? Why doesn’t he take real action? Deputy Speaker:Thank you, Member. Thank you. R. Sultan:Instead, the Attorney General wants to waive cabinet privilege related to all documents pertaining to money laundering and seems to prefer speech-making…. Deputy Speaker:The member will take his seat. R. Glumac: Money laundering.

We know this has been a problem in B.C. for years, a very serious problem, not only in our casinos, but also affecting our real estate market, contributing to home prices escalating and the affordability crisis. Now is the time for all of us to work together. This is not a political issue; it’s a criminal issue. I think the people of British Columbia want a government that will address diffi- cult issues like this. No one wants excuses. This government is taking action.

We started by ordering an independent review of B.C. ’s anti-money-laundering policies and practices in the Lower Mainland casinos, called the German report. From this, we’ve already put in a number of reforms that have reduced suspicious transactions sub- stantially, but there is more work to do. In moving forward, we need to understand the full scope of what has been done. What did the previous government do to address money laundering?

The former Solicitor Gen- eral from the previous government stated: “We did every- thing we could. ” Well, that’s great to hear, but if that’s the case, then let’s share that information in the spirit of solving this problem together. Let’s put politics aside. Let’s work together for the benefit of British Columbians. Last year the Attorney General made a request to repre- sentatives of the former government to waive cabinet priv- ilege on all documents related to money laundering. This request was made in August of last year. Our government still has not received those documents. Why?

When we ask, “What did you do, ” we get silence. Maybe we’re not asking the right people. I don’t know. The former head of B.C. ’s Integrated Illegal Gambling Enforcement Team said that the Liberals did not crack down on money laundering because they didn’t want to disrupt the flow of money. In fact, he called it the Wild West in B.C. ’s large casinos. What did the previous gov- ernment do? It looks like they did nothing. Well, actually, that’s not true. They did shut down the Illegal Gambling Enforcement Team.

Peter German, former RCMP deputy commissioner, stated: “For many years, Lower Mainland casinos unwit- tingly served as laundromats for the proceeds of organized crime. ” His 247-page report outlines in detail the misman- agement of the B.C. Liberals overseeing gambling regula- tions. But this wasn’t the first report on money laundering. The head of the civil forfeiture office did a review on money laundering in 2011 that clearly states that money laundering was occurring in casinos. What did the previous government do? It look like they did nothing.

In 2013, the head of gaming enforcement investigations sends an email that identifies the extent of money laundering in B.C. What did the previous government do? Again, it looks like they did nothing. Well, the former Minister of Fin- ance fired the investigator. In 2016, the government hires an accounting firm to investigate money laundering in one casino. The firm writes a report outlining detailed concerns about crime and money laundering. What did the government do? Again, it look like they did nothing. Over and over again, the previous government was told that there is a serious problem.

Over and over again, we can- not find what they did. Now they won’t release cabinet docu- ments on money laundering. It’s just not acceptable. A lot of this money went into real estate, driving up home prices and making homes unaffordable. Our government is also taking action on this. In 2018, the Minister of Finance appointed an independent chair, an expert panel to lead a review on money laundering in real estate. This report, and another report from Peter German that focuses more on real estate, will shed more light on this issue.

The days of doing nothing are over. [11:50 a.m.] Our government is taking action. We ask all members of this House to work together to do the right thing and release the cabinet documents on this issue. T. Redies:I’m pleased to rise to speak to the motion. As a 25-year banker, the subject of money laundering is of significant interest to me. Banking is a trust business between the financial institution and the clients it serves. Any facilitation of money laundering, unintended or other- wise, puts that at risk.

To say that I’m 100 percent against money laundering would be an understatement, because this is about the reputation of the province. I’ve read the Peter German report and followed the Silver International case because of my interest in this subject. I agree with many of the recommendations of Mr. German’s report. Those recommendations build upon what was already done in 2015 by the previous government, including the creation of a $4.5 million Joint Illegal Gaming Investiga- tion Team, which reduced the incidence of money launder- ing by 60 percent.

The German recommendations represent the next step in advancing our fight against money launder- ing, because it’s a never-ending battle. With respect to Silver International, I was also relieved to find out that the major facilitator of money laundering in B.C. was an underground illegal bank, not a regulated fin- ancial institution. Given the strict requirements to monitor and prevent money-laundering activities in financial institu- t

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	20190429am-Hansard-n240
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	20190429am Hansard n240
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	309ca55516d36154aa040813502f4a5032ac7819

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