l Volume XL Monday Province of Newfoundland FORTIETH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND First Session VERBATIM REPORT {Hansard} Speaker: Honourable Patrick McNicholas Number 29 10 June 1985

The House met at 3:00 P.M. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): Order, please! Statements by Ministers PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I do not know if it is Statements by Ministers or not. Perhaps even before that has been called, I would just like to take this opportunity to congratulate the Newfoundland Soccer Association who, with the support of the provincial government, has been chosen to host the final game of the last qualifying round of the World Cup Soccer Championships to be held in Mexico in June of 1986. I am aware, Mr.

Speaker, that the Newfoundland Soccer Association, under their President, Mr. George Innes, worked very hard to have St. John's, Newfoundlan d,. chosen as the site for this major international sporting event. Their efforts have paid off such that Honduras and Canada will pay off here in St. John's on September 14, 1985. Mr. Speaker, this international qualification round for the World Cup Soccer Championship is certainly the most prestigious sporting event ever to come to Newfoundland, especially given the fact that it is international in scope.

The fact that Newfoundland was chosen to host such an international competition is evidence of the high calibre of Ll483 June 10, 1985 Vol XL ,... our sporting facilities and evidence too of the tremendous organizational capabilities of the host committee, the Newfoundland Soccer Association. I am sure I speak on behalf of all . members here and the government in that I would like to congratulate the Newfoundland Soccer Association upon this major achievement and assure them of our continuing support as they prepare for this international event. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition.

MR. BARRY: Leader of the Mr. Speaker, we join with the Premier in congratulating the Newfoundland Soccer Association for having made this significant accomplishment by attracting this World Cup game to St. John's. Newfoundland and Labrador has had soccer as a very predominant sport in this Province. I think our teams have done exceedingly well on the national scene and I believe that the attraction of a soccer international championship to Newfoundland is particularly fitting because of the interest in that sport which has been here for a number of years. MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries. MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, the success of our fishing industry depends to a large degree on our ability to market our seafood products at No. 29 Rl483

maximum prices. Our main markets are export markets, markets where there is intense competition from other countries. Consequently, active and ongoing promotion within these markets, particularly in the United States, is required. This government considers generic or general seafood advertising to be an · important component of an overall promotion campaign. Such promotions have the impact of raising consumer awareness of seafood products which, in turn, leads to increased demand.

In fact, in our submission to the 1982 Federal Task Force on the Atlantic Fishery, we recommended the the federal government embark on such a campaign. We were pleased to see that this recommendation was acted on at the time. Recently, however, the federal government decided to cancel this campaign, leaving a void in our overall seafood promotion effort. This void is now attempting to be filled by the North Atlantic Seafood Association.

This is an organization of frozen groundfish proaucers from Atlantic Canada and a nwilber of European countries which attempts to promote North Atlantic Groundfish products to the high volume food service and institutional markets in the United States by means of generic promotion. This is not a new organization, but rather one that has been reactivated with a renewed commitment toward this goal in the face of increased competition from seafood products produced elsewhere in the world.

We have held consultations with NASA and Newfoundland producers, and we feel that their efforts can have Ll484 June 10, 1985 Vol XL positive impact on individual marketing effo;ts of our seafood processors and thus benefit our fishing industry as a whole. That is why, Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to inform this hon. House that my department has provided a $20,000 grant to NASA in support of their promotional efforts and programmes. Officials of my department will be monitoring NASA's activities during the months ahead to ensure that their objectives are being met. SOME BON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR.

SPEAKER (McNicholas): The hon. the member for Fogo. MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, let me say to the minister in his first paragraph, were he points out that 'the success of our fishing industry depends to a large degree on our ability to market our product' is a good Liberal policy and nothing that we can disagree with. Let me point out to him that we are pleased to see anything done in marketing• As a matter of fact, we would probably contend that it is the weakest area in our whole fishing industry. We have no doubt that the North Atlantic Seafood Association will do their upmost to see that fish is marketed.

I would also like to point out to him that his statement contains at least a half confession, in that when he points out to us that the federal Liberals, I think, put $5 million in place for last year' s marketing · of generic species, and the federal Tories, as soon as they took office, cancelled it. No. 29 Rl484

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. TULK: The best that we could see out of the government at that time was that they stayed very quiet on the other side of the House. They said nothing. So they have now put in place $20,000 to try to fill what he says is a void that hopefully the North Atlantic Seafood Association will fill. Well, let me just say this to him, that while the $20,000 is, I hope, well used, all I can say to him is this: It is a big whoop-de-doc! How generous can you get! SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh. Oral Questions MR. BARRY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): The bon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. BARRY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Premier, in light of statements made at various Estimate Committees by the Minister of Education (Mr. Hearn) and other ministers, to the effect that they feel that it is proper for ministers to inform MBAs who are members of their own party but not MBAs who are members of other parties with respect to work to be carried out in various districts. And I refer specifically to, and I am sorry he is not here, the Minister of Career Development (Mr.

Power) where I see constant streams of press releases having to do with the numbers of jobs Ll485 June 10, 1985 Vol XL created by various SEED projects to be in various districts of members opposite. I would like to ask the Premier is this now the new policy of government, that MBAs of one political stripe will be treated differently than MBAs of another stripe when it comes to informing members of this House with respect to government expenditures in various departments of government? MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): The bon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr.

Speaker, as far as I know if members call the various departments they will get the information regardless of what side of the Bouse they are on. There is no discrimination or anything like that, we are all members of the House, and I am sure that members will be informed about various things that are going on in their districts as the department is ready to announce them. MR. BARRY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the bon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. BARRY: Mr. Speaker, the Premier is trying to sideslip the question.

The Premier knows that the Minister of Career Studies Development and Advanced (Mr. Power), for example, is issuing information to members opposite but not to members on this side of the House with respect to SEED projects, with respect to where the projects have been approved for, with respect to the numbers of student jobs that would come from these projects and so forth. Well, on another matter No. 29 Rl485

i ;i related to this matter of patronage, Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Prmemier whether he has changed the policy of government with respect to the posting of jobs for internal competitions within the department. I refer specifically to a position of Labourer I - I will not mention the gentleman's name because it would not be fair to him - but I mention the position of Labourer I in the Department of Transportation, the Bay L 'Argent depot, where an individual, a former campaign worker of the member for Burin - Placentia West (Mr. Tobin) , I am informed, has been hired without the job being posted.

Is the Premier condoning this type of thing? MR.. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, it is the first I have heard of it and I will take the question as notice and get the information for the hon. member. But it is the first I am aware of it. I will check it out for the hon. membP.r. MR. BARRY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. BARRY: Along the same lines, Mr. Speaker, I will direct a question to the Premier but, if it is the first he has heard of this one, maybe he can refer to the Minister of Forest Resources and Lands (Mr.

Simms) • Does the Premier, along with this new policy of government, accept the notion of hiring such as at the Wooddale Ll486 June 10, 1985 Vol XL Nursery be done on the direction or instructions or advice of the MHA? Would the Premier inform us whether the eighteen hired at the Wooddale Nursery came through the Minister of Forest Resources and Lands? MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: I have not got a Speaker. The Minister Resources and Lands may answer the question. aware of that at all. MR. BARRY: clue, Mr. of Forest be able to I am not Maybe the smiling minister will answer.

MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, I will respond to the question. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Forest Resources and Lands. MR. SIMMS: First of all I have to point out that something fairly unfortunate happened out there which is of much more significance and that is that there was a problem with respect to frost in the ground and unfortunately we lost somewhere in the area of 2 million seedlings at the Wooddale Nursery this year, which obviously put our programme in some jeopardy.

So there had to be some people hired in order to transplant the seedlings from one area to another, to pick up our programme and to try to 'keep it as current as we possibly could. As a result, a number of people were required to carry out that work and the numbers were somewhere in the area of eighteen to twenty. I do not know the precise number. I can assure the hon. ·Leader of the No. 29 Rl486

Opposition (Mr. hiring for Barry) those that the particular positions, which were for a two to three week period, by the way, was done directly in accordance with the MOS Collective Agreement. There are two types of projects that are underway or undertaken in the Province in terms of planting. Some are done by the company on company limits~ others are done on Crown land. Those that are conducted on Crown land are hired in strict accordance, with the Collective Agreement. MR. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): The bon. member Windsor-Buchans. MR. FLIGHT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Speaker, my question is to Minister of Environment Butt) • I would like to ask for Mr. the (Mr. the minister, has the minister or his department been monitoring the situation with regards to the high water levels, actual flood conditions, existing on the Exploits River during this past several days? AN HON. MEMBER: How high is the water level? MR. FLIGHT: Not funny, old buddy. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): The hon. Minister of the Environment. MR. BUTT: Mr. Speaker, I thank the bon. member for his question.

My staff at the Grand Falls office are monitoring the situation on the Exploits River and we are keeping Ll487 June 10, 1985 Vol XL tabs on it and it is being reported on a regular basis. There is not much one can physically do when you are getting an unusual amount of rain but we are keeping tabs on it, Mr. Speaker, and it is being reported to me on a regular basis. MR. FLIGHT: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. member for Windsor-Buchans. MR. FLIGHT: Mr.

Speaker, as the minister knows the maintenance of the Exploits dam which controls the water flow of the Exploits River is the responsibility of Abitibi-Price. The safety of the people and property downstream from that dam, in Badger particularly, is the responsibility of the minister. Now, as a result of flooding last year and other years and now again this year, has the minister had any concerns regarding the safety or security of the Exploits dam brought to his attention? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of the Environment. MR. BUTT: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I am .very much aware of the situation there.

As a matter of fact we undertook a very comprehensive study with Environment Canada and made some recommendations for renovations to that dam, after the flood that occurred, to ensure that the kind of conditions which existed last year, and the flood which occurred, would not happen again. MR. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker. No. 29 Rl487 .-

MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): A supplementary, the hon. member for Windsor-Buchans. MR. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker, I did not particularly have this as a supplementary, but I have to tell the minister that I live in that area and there the Exploits flooding took was no work done on dam after the place and with the great millions of dollars lost in the Bishop Falls area. MR. BUTT: There was a new dam. MR. FLIGHT: There was a new darn constructed, but I am talking about the Exploits Darn, the dam that controls the level of water in the Exploits River and decides whether or not there are flood conditions in that river system.

So, Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask can the minister ensure the House that the concerns and fears of people living in the Exploits Valley, particularly Badger, are unfounded, and that there is no threat to their safety and their propert;y down-:stream from Exploits Darn-? < 'These . 1 concerns of the loca'l people are based on doubts and questions raised by local people, knowledgeable people, who know that dam, know the conditions, and know when it was built. Now, Mr.

Speaker, can the minister assure the people of Badger and the people of the Central Newfoundland valley that their fears are unfounded and that there is no threat to their to property down-stream, particularly with the type of conditions that occurred in Red Indian Lake and Exploits River this past three or four days? Has the minister had enough information from his Ll488 June 10, 1985 Vol XL officials, based on his last answer, that he can categorically assure the people of Central Newfoundland that they have no fears of that darn giving out and threatening their property? MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): The hon.

Minister of the Environment. MR. BUTT: Mr. Speaker, as I pointed out to the hon. member, there was a very comprehensive study done by my department and Environment Canada to put plans in place. I did not say the work was done but there were recommendations made so that work would be done at some future date to ensure that the major flooding that did occur would not happen again. I am quite certain that that will be done.

As for assuring anyone whether there is going to be a hail storm tonight or rain tomorrow, there are several things I can do , but one thing I cannot do for the hon. member is control the weather. MR. PLIGHT: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): A final supplementary, the hon. member for Windsor-Buchans. MR. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker, that appears to me to be a very flippant answer from a minister who has watched year after year disasterous situations arising in there. People lost their homes in Bishop Palls last year.

The minister should remember ladies who were drowned on the Trans- Canada Highway last year because of the flood conditions on the Exploits River. There is millions of dollars worth of damage done to Badger year after year and the minister stands -· No. 29 Rl488

up and flippantly says he cannot control the rain. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): ·order, please! It is a Would the final supplementary. hon. member just pose his question? MR. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker, since the recommendations have been made, would the minister indicate to the Bouse, since he is aware Abitibi Price are the people who have to do the maintenance that is recommended, what has been the position of Abitibi-Price? Based on the recommendations the minister made to have work done on the Exploits Dam to ensure its stability and security, what did Abitibi-Price tell the minister with regard to his request? MR.

SPEAKER (McNicholas): The hon. Minister of the Environment. MR. BUTT: Mr. Speaker, I can assure the hon. member that the terms that were outlined in that report, and the recommendations that were made by Environment Canada and the provincial Department of the Environment, will be carried out. MR. FLIGHT: When? MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): The hon. the member for Fogo. MR. TOLK: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Fisheries (Mr.

Rideout) , and it concerns the fishing vessel insurance plan Ll489 June 10, 1985 Vol XL which I know is administered and operated by the federal Department of Fisheries. Last Fall the federal Tories threatened to turn that over to private enterprise, but I understand they have now put that on hold. However, I understand from some fishermen that premiums have increased by 31.1 per cent, which they say is the largest increase in recent years. For example, where last year fishermen had to pay $10,000, I now understand they have to pay something like $13,000.

Could the minister indicate if these reported increases are indeed true, and what representation he has made to his federal counterpart in Ottawa concerning those increases if, in fact, they are in place? MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries. MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman is quite correct. Early last year., I believe, there was some talk to the effect that the programme would be discontinued by the federal government, but they have, as he indicated, since announced that they will be continuing with the progrannne.

I have heard of proposed increases but I have not seen any official document to tell me that the increase has, in fact, been put in place. But I will have my officials check out the matter and, if it has been put in place, then we will make the appropriate representation. But to my knowledge, and I am not saying this categorically, what I have No. 29 Rl489

heard is that there have been talks of increased premiums and talks of other things, but I am not aware that they have, in fact, been put in place at this point in time. MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): The hon. the member for Fogo. MR. TULK: Is the Minister of Fisheries telling me that he has heard over the past three or four weeks, as I have heard, that there are increases that are phenomenal, in some cases $3,000 to $4,000 for an individual fisherman, and that only now, after questions have been raised in the Bouse, he is going to ask his officials to investigate it?

Well, let me put this to him, Mr. Speaker. I would ask the minister to now put the affairs of the fishermen of this Province before his own coziness with the federal Tories, and that he would make the strongest representation to his Tory ,bu~dies in Ot i~:.a~C!-. ,, 0;r is he ]ust 1 going ' to sit ' there · in his seat and wait until something surfaces before he does anything about it, as has happened over the past couple months? It is time for him to act. MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): The hon. the Minister of Fisheries. MR. RIDEOUT: Mr.

Speaker, in that wave of political wind, I suppose there was a question. The fact of the matter is, I did have a fisherman in my own district mention to me Ll490 June 10, 1985 Vol XL in the last few days that he had heard some rumours to the effect that there may be some increases in the insurance premiums. I am always open to the hon. gentleman's suggestions, of course, but I do not need any push from the him to initiate representation. It is already in the mill, Mr. Speaker. MR. TOLK: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, member for Fogo. MR. TOLK: the hon. the Mr.

Speaker, my first question to the minister was had he made any representation? No, because it was only rumour, but now it is already in the mill. Well, let me ask him, has he made any representation either verbally or written and will he tell us what the response has been either from federal fisheries officials or from the minister himself? Now, make the situation clear. Save you made representation? We know that your own fishermen were telling you that it was in place and you did not act, but now would you tell us if you are going to act, when, and when we can expect some reply in this Bouse? MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Fisheries. MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, you know the hon. gentleman gets up and says, "We know your own fishermen told you it was in place and you did not act." You know, Mr. Speaker, I did not say that at all. The hon. gentleman can jump to whatever conclusions he wants to, normally his conclusions are wrong because he wants things to happen the way No. 29 Rl490

he would like to see them happen. The fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker, that we have been made aware of the situation and we are acting on it. MR. W. CARTER: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Twillingate. MR. W. CARTER: Mr. Speaker, in January a paper carrier broke up and sank in Notre Dame Bay, carrying to the bottom with it about 500 tons of Bunker C fuel. I understand that fuel is now starting to leak from the sunken ship causing some concern amongst the fishermen in the area. Can the minister tell the House, Mr.

Speaker, what action is being taken to ensure that the environment is not polluted by that oil? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of the Environment. MR. BUTT: Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member is probably aware, that comes under the purview of the Canadian Coast Guard but we obviously have some concerns as a Provincial Department of the Environment and we have been working very closely with those people. I can tell the bon. member that there is very little that can be done except the site where the Manolis L. went down is being monitored on a daily basis by the Canadian Coast Guard.

As a matter of fact, I called them myself on Friday just to get an update and they had been out there the previous day. They are getting a lot of support from local residents of that area, and if Ll491 June 10, 1985 Vol XL there is any oil or anything sighted they have a line of communications set up. They are waiting now for about another week, when they feel that, since all the ice has broken up, it will be out of the area and then they are going to send down a diving team. Then they will devise a plan, I guess at that time, to pump out the tanks on this paper carrier, the Manolis L •• MR. W. CARTER: Mr.

Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The bon. member for Twillingate. MR. W. CARTER: I think it is rather interesting for the minister to say that it is within the purview of another government. Certainly he must share responsibility, or at least certainly must be willing to react to the problem, to the emergency. Mr. Speaker, I do not think the answer is sufficient. I believe that if that situation existed - MR. BUTT: What is your question? MR. W.

CARTER: I am coming to my question. existed in any other part of the Atlantic area, in the Bay of Fundy, the Georges Banks, I do not think the provinces concerned would have been satisfied to sit back and wait. Mr. Speaker, in light of the urgency and the very seriousness of the problem, the livelihood of people being jeopardized, will the minister take whatever steps - MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! I have to ask the hon. member if No. 29 Rl491

he would pose his supplementary question. MR. W. CARTER: Will the minister, Mr. Speaker, then get on the phone today to his federal counterpart, never mind waiting until the ice moves off or for ideal situations to exist, would he get on the phone now and ask his counterpart to take whatever action can be taken today to make sure their problem is alleviated? MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): The hon. the Minister of the Environment. MR. BUTT: Mr. Speaker, there is only so much that you can do. It is rather harsh environment there right now with the ice is breaking up.

I can assure the hon. member we have gotten good cooperation from the local officials of the Canadian Coast Guard here, and just as soon as that ice moves off we will be sending down a team of divers to see how we are going to tackle the problem. It is not really simple, it is rather complex, but, I mean, everything that 1 • i~ . humanly > possible to be dorie · is being ,. done. We are doing everything that we can possibly do. I do not see why it is necessary to contact the federal minister on it on a daily basis.

I was talking to the federal minister on it some time ago and we are prepared to wait at least another week. If indeed something happens in the interim, well they have an interim plan of action, but I would not like to see, for example, a diving team go down there now when the ice in the area is breaking up and perhaps have a loss of life or something in trying to do something that could be done in just as effective a way in a week or so from now.

Ll492 June 10, 1985 Vol XL So really, while the problem is urgent, I see the urgency in it, every possible thing is being done and within the next week or so we will have the divers down there and hopefully we will get a permanent solution to the problem. MR. TULK: MR. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): The hon. the member for Fogo. MR. W. CARTER: Mr. Speaker. MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, I yield to the hon. the member for Twillingate. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): The hon. the member for Twillingate. MR. W. CARTER: Mr. Speaker, can the minister tell the House - PREMIER PECKFORD: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER (McNicholas): A ·point of orjer, the hon. the ·:· I '· Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: This is terrible. There is a lot of information that we want to give the House here and then we got two and three members getting up at a time in the same party over there. Let them get their act together so we can get on and answer the questions. I am bored over here. MR. BARRY: To that point of Speaker. order, Mr. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): To that point of order, the hon. No. 29 Rl492

the Leader of the Opposition. MR. BARRY: If the Premier is so anxious to give us some information he niight try answering some of the questions on the Order Paper. Why it is happening is that we have so many questions because there is so much abuse by government of its power in this Province tod~y, that members here are just bursting to get at members opposite. SOME BON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): Order, please! I did recognize the hon. member for Fogo (Mr. Tulk) but he yielded to the hon. member for Twillingate (Mr. W.

Carter) • So I call upon the hon. member for Twillingate to pose his supplementary question. MR. W. CARTER: Mr. Speaker, if the ministers were doing their jobs properly maybe we would not have to ask these questions. The minister mentioned about an emergency plan, a contingency plan. can he tell the House then, and maybe give the fishermen some assurance, that if something were to happen - I know it is hypothetical - do I take it that there will be compensation or some measure of compensation for the fishermen affected? Has that been discussed with the owners of the ship or the insurance company? MR.

SPEAKER (McNicholas): The Minister of the Environment. MR. BUTT: Mr. Speaker, hon. member suppose it just let me tell the once again that I is possible with Ll493 June 10, 1985 Vol XL today' s technology to send divers down, cut holes in ice if necessary to do it, but, I mean, the risk to the individuals is very great. And all we are saying, Mr.

Speaker, is that in about another week - the ice will have left the coast, we will have some clear water there - we are sending out a diving team, a team of experts, and they will go down to where the Manolis L. is sunk and they will then devise a plan as to how they are going to pump the oil out of the sunken paper carrier. Mr. Speaker, it cannot be any clearer than that for the hon. member. MR. TULK: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): A supplementary, the hon. member for Fogo. MR. TULK: Mr.

Speaker, the minister seems to indicate that there is no sense of urgency in regards to that sunken vessel. MR. BUTT: I did not say that. true. MR. TULK: That is not No, no. But you did make the point that you have had no reports of oil, I think, and so on. But let me ask you the question. Has your department received any indication at all from, say, any fishermen or any people in that area that indeed there is oil leaking from that boat now? And is the minister so sure that that area is covered by ice? MR. BUTT: To that supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): No. 29 Rl493

The hon. the Minister of the Environment. MR. BUTT: Yes there was an oil slick. I explained in this hon. House, Mr. Speaker, some three or four weeks ago as to the reason why there was an oil slick, there and what we ascertained caused the oil slick. When the paper carrier was sinking there was an oil slick, but the experts informed me that the reason why there was an oil slick was that it just happened during the actual sinking itself and not because of a leak or a rupture in the tanks. There have been no additional oil slicks since that time.

So, you know, we feel fairly sure at least that when the oil slick occurred it was just during the actual sinking itself and no other oil has come from this paper carrier since. MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. MR. SPEAKER {McNicholas): A final supplementary, the hon. member for Fogo. MR. TULK: I · have to point out to the minister for his own benefit that it was only yesterday that I received telephone calls from people in the area saying that there were oil slicks showing now. Let me ask the minister another question, and it is very important. MR. BUTT: A new oil slick? No. MR.

TULK: Well, you should have your officials check it out then. Let me ask him another question. Is the minister saying, because there seems to be some hesitation about Ll494 June 10, 1985 Vol XL moving on this, that indeed it may be impossible or we may not have the technology yet to pump that oil up even if we go down for it? I ask him that simple question as a point of information. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): The hon. Minister of the Environment. MR. BUTT: No, I did not say that at all, Mr. Speaker. I would like to know from the hon. member who is making those reports. Who is making the reports? MR.

TULK: Well, it is a crab fishing area. MR. SPEAKER {McNicholas): Order, please! MR. BUTT: We have had a good rapport with the fishermen in the area and we do not know of any further oil slick to the one that actually happened during the sinking. So if there are fishermen calling the hon. member about an oil slick, I would simply say to the hon. member to pass it . on. We woul-i be .• , 'quite happy td h~v~ rt. MR. TULK: I thought you and your department would know about it. PREMIER PECKFORD: Why did you not call the minister last night. MR. BUTT: Yes, give me a call. I am always available, Mr.

Speaker, always available. MR. FENWICK: Mr. Speaker. MR . SPEAKER {McNicholas): No. 29 Rl494

The hon. member for Menihek. MR. FENWICK: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. As the bon. House may know, last Thursday an exceptional resolution passed through the Legislature in Manitoba, an NDP-PC combined resolution calling upon the federal government to reinstate full indexing for oil age pensi,pns. It seems to me a very legitimate, reasonable thing to do, and, while we have a third party in this Legislature, namely, the Liberal Party, then we probably have to have three parties as a party to it. I would like to ask the Premier if he would entertain the possibility of having such resolution in our House?

PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): The bon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: There are a number of resolutions now on the Order Paper. It is a hypothetical type of question. You know, if the bon. member wants ·.to introduce a resolution, put it on for Private Members' Day, then we will indicate to the bon. member how we feel about it. MR. FENWICK: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. member for Menihek. MR.

FENWICK: the As the Premier knows, of course, it would take approximately six or eight months to get a Private Members' motion up to the level where it can be debated. My question is quite simple, then. Ll495 June 10, 1985 Vol XL Does the Premier and his government support what the federal government has done in de-indexing old age pensions and the guaranteed income supplement? PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): The bon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr.

Speaker, I indicated a little while ago that we were doing a full assessment on the budget implications for Newfoundland and how we would react to it. That assessment now is well underway and it should be to Cabinet in the next week or so, perhaps this Thursday. So we will be in a pretty good position, perhaps by the end of the week, or early next week to indicate clearly where we stand on this matter that the bon. member raises, plus others. MR. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the member for Windsor-Buchans. MR. FLIGHT: I have one short question to the Minister of the Environment (Mr. Butt).

Relative to my first question, it is very simple •. Will the minister inform the House when the work that he has recommended to be done on the Exploits Dam as a result of the reports that he had from Environment Canada will be done? Have Abitibi-Price given him a work

schedule for that dam? MR. BUTT: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): The bon. the member for Evironment. No. 29 Rl495

MR. BUTT: Mr. Speaker, it has been several days actually since I read the report. I am not exactly sure and, therefore, I would not wish to be misquoted in the House, Mr. Speaker. I am not quite sure the exact time frames that were recommended in which this work should be done. But I will certain1y take the han. member 1 s question as notice. I am sure he will probably turn up tonight at the Colonial Building for my estimates and I will give him a very long and detailed answer on it. No problem. MR. FLIGHT: It is the people who want to know. MR. BAKER: Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER (McNicholas): The han. the member for Gander. MR. BAKER: . Mr. Speaker, in the Minister of the Environment 1 s (Mr. Butt) answer to a question I asked on Friday, he was trying to avoid answering the question by lecturing me on the duties of the Department of ; the Environment. He pointed out that, with regards to PCBs, the mandate for the Department of Environment is to make sure we know where they are stored, if they are in use, how they will be transported, and nothing else.

I would like to suggest to the Minister of the Environment that part of his duty would also be to see if any of these PCBs are leaking. In that light I would ask him, since there are 235 metric tons of PCBs in this Province right now, when was the last time officials from the Department of Environment checked Ll496 June 10, 1985 Vol XL to see whether there leakage from these transformers? was any particular MR. BUTT: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): The han. the Minister of Environment. MR. BUTT: Mr. Speaker, that process is ongoing.

And I might add for the information of the han. member there opposite, the rookie member for Gander (Mr. Baker), that the Department of Environment in Newfoundland has a greater control over the inventory of PCBs and other hazardous waste than any other provincial jurisdiction in this country, and that came out, Mr. Speaker, very loud and clear at our meeting with my federal counterpart in Montreal on May 31. One of the issues, of course, we had to address at that time, besides storage and destruction, was inventory control and transportation of PCBs.

I can say, from our Speaker, t ~~ ~. control over '· other province is not bad. MR. BAKER: point of view, Mr. we have a ' :great~ ;r ' . . /'. ?· I ·:· inventory than any in Canada, and that A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): A final supplementary, the han. member of Gander. There is just about one minute left in Question Period. MR. BAKER: As usual, in his answer the minister gives no answer. The question, and I will put it to him again, is when was the last time officials from the Department of No. 29 Rl496

the Environment actually checked to see if there is any leakage from these transformers? I do not want to hear a tirade about the fact that we are the best in the country. When was this done? MR. BUTT: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): The hon. Environment. MR. BUTT: the Minister Mr. Speaker, I thank of the the hon. member once again for his question. Let me tell the hon. member that that is an ongoing process. Because we have some electrical apparatus, transformers and capacitors, in the Province using PCBs as coolants, we check on an ongoing basis, Mr. Speaker.

While I am answering the question for the hon. member for Gander, I would say that there is somebody from the Department of the Environment probably out on the West Coast right now checking on electrical apparatus that is using PCBs as a coolant. MR. BARRY: What about stor ·age? MR. BUTT: It is being done on an ongoing basis. Where we have our major area of PCBs in this Province, it happens to be the safest storage area in all of Canada. It has a fifteen ton door at the entrance, and I challenge the hon. member to go down and try to get in there. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): Order, please!

The time for Oral Questions has elapsed. Ll497 June 10, 1985 Vol XL Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): The hon. Minister of Consumer Affairs and Communications. MR. RUSSELL Mr. Speaker, on Friday the member for Port de Grave (Mr. Efford) asked me if I had taken any action with regard to the recent application by Terra Transport, I guess it is, for an increase in road cruiser service rates in the Province. I took the question as notice and said that perhaps it would be better asked of the Bon. Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe).

In doing that I was not trying to pass the buck, but it is a transportation problem. The provincial Minister of Transportation, on May 31, did make some representation to the federal Minister of Transportation concerning the application for the rate increase, so I do not think it is necessary for each and every minister over here to do that kind of thing. In fact, on this side we all speak with one voice, unlike the other side who are speaking with fifteen voices, going in fifteen different directions. SOME BON. MEMBERS: Bear, hear! Orders of the Day MR.

SPEAKER (McNicholas): The hon. member for Fortune-Bermi tage (Mr. Simmons) adjourned the debate and my notes indicate that he has thirty-four No. 29 Rl497

minutes left. The hon. member for Fortune-Hermitage. MR. SIMMONS: Now, Mr. Speaker, in the last week or so, in my first installment, I raised some particular concerns about patronage and about the failure of the government to do anything about the employment situation in this Province. And at that time I moved an amendment to the Budget Speech which basically called on the House to join me in condemning the government for its failure to address the real problems in this Province, particularly the problem of unemployment. Mr.

Speaker, we expect the House to support that because it is such a sensible and obvious thing to do, unless, of course, you have vested interest in hanging on with your fingernails to government, which brings me to an issue that now we have another circumstance unparalleled, unprecedented anywhere else in the British Parliamentary system, anywhere, in that you have more than half the House ·with a direct fin :ancial vested interest in hanging onto power. That itself is a very substantial breach of tradition.

Where you have twenty-two ministers, a number of parliamentary secretaries and so on, each in their own right, in law, is quite legitimate, but if you add them all up they come to more than twenty-six. And so for the first time in British Parliamentary history you have an administration - it is a precedent, I checked - you have an administration in which the numbers who are on the government payroll, quite apart from their .stipend as an MBA, the numbers on Ll498 June 10, 1985 Vol XL the government payroll exceed 50 per cent of the membership of the House.

Anytime a member is called upon to support an absolutely sensible resolution, like the one I put down, he has a vested interest in voting against it, irrespective of what his conscience dictates he ought to do. Now, Mr. Speaker, we have some very serious and very specific concerns about this budget, some of which I mentioned last week, and others, in this debate, I will mention. Let me be specific on a few of them.

We are concerned about the kick in the guts that the fishing industry gets out of this budget. we have heard so much from this administration, all the rhetoric about how concerned it is and what it is doing for the fishing industry. Of course, like in so many other areas, this is a government that never really put its money where its mouth is. And this year, talking about money, less than 1 per cent of the -spending in this budget is dedicated to the fishing industry. ,, That is far from good enough.

That is an insult to the thousands of plant workers, inshore fishermen and trawler men out there, who look to this government and look to this House of Assembly to have the future of Newfoundland's first industry protected on a continuing basis. That is not being doing. It is being eroded by the disinterest and neglect of an administration that is preoccupied with other things, principally its own preservation. We are concerned, so far as this No. 29 Mr. Speaker, in budget relates, Rl498 J. ~ .,

with the continuing neglect of the renewable resource area. And, once again, if you look at the budget you will find that less money is being spent there on the renewable resources of this Province than on servicing the public debt. I spoke last week about the seriousness of the public debt. I was delighted to have the support, --~ in the last day or so, of the gentleman for St. John's East (Mr. Marshall) , who also feels it is a matter that is serious and that requires our continued attention. I remind the House that the Minister of Finance (Dr.

Collins) does not share that view, so, I have the happy, almost unique circumstance, of being on the same side of an issue as the member for St. John's East, and what is more, at the same time, being on a different side of an issue than the member for St. John's South (Dr. Collins), the Minister of Finance.

But the point needs to be emphasized, Mr Speaker, that despite all the talks about renewable resources this administration is dedicating ·less money in this budget to renewable resource activity than it "is to servicing the public debt, a public debt that they have driven through the ceiling since they took office twelve years ago. We are concerned, Mr. Speaker, and we deplore the failure of this administration to remove the retail sales tax on the fuel adjustment charge, or to, in any way, deal with the scandalously high electricity rates. I have heard my friend from Port de Grave (Mr.

Effort) talk about specific cases of people who now Ll499 June 10, 1985 Vol XL are at the to choose electrical point where they between paying bill, or buying have the the groceries. Mr. Speaker, that is a terrible choice to have to make and it becomes a deplorable choice when you realize that the real reason those individuals, and there are thousands of them out there who have to do that, when you realize that the real reason they have to do that is because of the plundering of this government insofar as electricity management is concerned.

You only have to look at Cat Arm to see how ill-advised was their judgement there. Mr. Speaker, the taxpayers of the Province have seen an almost doubling of the Cat Arm project costs from the time it began, not the time it was first projected, but from the time it first went under contract to today. MR. J. CARTER: Have you been out to Cat Arm? Do you realize what you are up against? MR. SIMMONS: Mr. S~eaker, yes I have been to Cat Arm, and yes I realize they are up against some very bad advice, some poor preparation, some lack of engineering in getting ready for the project in the first place. MR. J.

CARTER: That is not true. It is just not true. MR. SIMMONS: Now, Mr. Speaker, just to continue to enumerate our specific concerns, we also deplore the failure of this administration to reduce the retail sales tax. We undertook, as a party during the last election campaign, to reduce No. 29 Rl499 ·.

it, for a start, by two percentage points. It is the highest in Canada, it is reducing consumer spending, it is inflicting a hardship on the ordinary people of this Province, and, so, we deplore the failure in this budget to reduce the retail sales tax, which we would have administration. done as an Mr. Speaker, we deplore also the lack of any job initiatives for young people. Throughout this Province we have communities where the unemployment rate is in the order of 90 per cent. One community in st.

Barbe district, we heard it on the radio Sunday morning on Regional Roundup on CBC, where 116 out of 118 young people between the ages of eighteen and twenty-four are without employment in the community of Trout River. These Mr. more. are some of our concerns, Speaker, and we have many We are concerned about the excessive restraint in certain areas of the public service, and that restraint, Mr. Speaker, stands in stark contrast to the largess that is evid~nt when it comes to finding jobs for defeated Tory candidates, when it comes to tucking away political buddies. No restraint there, Mr.

Speaker, no restraint at all there. But when it comes to the Public Service wh.ich has served this Province well and long, sock it to them, is the attitude over there, make them bear the brunt of the mismanagement sins of this administration. Mr. Speaker, continuing to enumerate our concerns, we are concerned also about the inadequate funding for the arts community, and not only inadequate funding. Mr.

Speaker, in a time LlSOO June 10, 1985 Vol XL of some restraint, one has to be rather circumspect about where one applies the dollars and so we do not argue only about the limited amounts of money that are available. We understand that. But what we do not understand and what we deplore is the blatant, the absolutely barefaced blatant politics that is being played with • the arts community. Mr.

Speaker, with this administration gone is the traditional and the desirable arms-length relationship with the arts community, and it is replaced by direct funding of the chosen few, the chosen pandering few, whose only art, it seems, is the despicable art of Tory kow-towing. And so you have out there in the St. John's community a few who pander enough, who kneel low enough, that this administration is prepared to fund them directly. And the rest, Mr. Speaker, go begging. Mr. Speaker, continuing to enumerate our concerns, we are concerned about the treatment of Hibernia and the offshore in this budget.

We have heard a lot of rhetoric again, but where are the jobs , Mr. Speaker, where are the jobs? I believe that Hibernia has been over sold in the past two or three years for straight political reasons, a matter that will come back to haunt this administration, but we will talk about that in time too. It has been over sold political to the very serious detriment of other sectors of the economy and to the severe disappointment of thousands of Newfoundlanders who keep having their expectations raised by the Premier and then having them dashed by the Premier. Mr.

Speaker, the whole subject of Hibernia raises a number of specific concerns, a number of No. 29 RlSOO I. ' .. ,

-.L: specific questions. What is the real scale, the economic and the employment scale of Hibernia? How many jobs will there be? Surely this Utopian solution to all our problems, we are told, must warrant something more specific than general promises, we ought to have some projection about job potential, about revenue for government, and about what types of business opportunities there will be. Mr. Speaker, one of our central concerns as a people and as an Opposition rel~tes to the processing of Hibernia oil. Should government not be insisting that it be refined and processed here in Newfoundland?

The answer is rhetorical, of course, it should be insisting that. Well, what did it do instead? It went out and sold the shop because Mr. Mulroney - AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. SIMMONS: If we had signed the Chretien deal we would be farther ahead than we are going to be on this one. Mr. sold Speaker, they the shop to went out Quebec and and Ontario Mulroney's there. because priorities Governor were up MR. LUSH: It is a scam. MR. WARREN: we do not agree with the Chretien deal. MR. DINN: He could not put it on paper. MR. SIMMONS: Mr. Speaker, Mr.

Chretien's deal Ll501 June 10, 1985 Vol XL was sufficiently good, that the President - now if the gentleman from Pleasantville (Mr. Dinn) wants an question, to it. answer, I heard his I am trying to respond He asked me about the Chretien deal. I refer him to one of his colleagues, the gentleman from St. John's East (Mr. Marshall) who thought the Chretien deal was so good that he went on national television with him and supported him publicly, until the Premier stepped in. MR. DINN: He had writer's cramp. MR. SIMMONS: Notice the differenc~ now, Mr. Speaker.

In those days they wanted everything on paper, but did you hear the Premier today? The older people in this Province are being savaged by a federal budget and what was the Premier's answer two weeks after the event? 'We are doing a study of the implications. ' While those older people and those other people on low incomes out there are having their incomes threatened he is going to study the problem. I tell you, Sir, that a year ago he would not be studying the problem. He would be wiring off four-foot long Telexes. He would have the problem studied overnight.

He would know what the solution was and he would be telling the Trudeau Liberals in Ottawa what to do about it but now his task masters in Ottawa say, 'Brian, do not rock the boat or we will take the few crumbs we are giving you. We will not even let you stay at the table, we will kick you away.' Task masters in Ottawa are in charge now just like they were in No. 29 Rl501

charge on the Clause 54. The task masters in Ottawa are in full control and their minions here, Mr. Speaker, whether on offshore or on fiscal matters affecting this Province, they are minions. There they are. There are minions here who ask only how high when they are told to jump. They sold us down the river on Clause 54 and they know it. They can scream and yell all they want. Mr.

Speaker, as I was saying we have a number of very real and pressing concerns about the Hibernia development, about offshore oil and if ever this crowd gets the courage to bring the legislation into the House, then we will address those concerns much more specifically. Concerns like the ones I have just mentioned, concerns like, how do we best ensure that Newfoundland's industrial base is broadened from offshore oil when and if it goes into production. MR. J. CARTER: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Greening): A point of order, the hon. the ~ember for St. John's North. MR. J.

CARTER: It is part of parliamentary tradition, Mr. Speaker, that one may not deliberately mislead the House of Assembly and I think we all agree on that, but I would say as a supplementary that we should agree that it is unparliamentary to mislead unwittingly. the House even To suggest time after time, every time the gentleman gets up, he says, •we were sold down the river by Clause 54. The federal government sold us down the river.

We sold ourselves down the Ll502 June 10, 1985 Vol XL river.• This is just not true, this is wrong, this is misleading, it is obnoxious and the hon. member should be brought to task for saying it every time. MR. SPEAKER (Greening): To that point of order, there is no point of order. The hon. the member for Fortune - Hermitage. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible. ) MR. SIMMONS: a parliament, for that is just a That is not God's sake, committee government. of the federal Mr. Speaker, I have nothing to say on that because there was no point of order. MR. SPEAKER: I stated there was no point of order. MR.

SIMMONS: Given then, Mr. Speaker, what is without ranker or undue partisanship, a Budget Speech that, even on the best and the kindest reading, is a sterile nullification of the mandate to create jobs on which it was based in the first place, what can you say, Mr. Speaker, about a government which offers such a speech? It is a most optimistic statement of possibilities for the year ahead in these economically and socially bleak times for Newfoundland.

Given the massive and the endemic unemployment that continues to harass this Province, what process of mind can concoct such a document, a document that is so careless of the pain of so many No. 29 Rl502

citizens of Newfoundland, so heedless of attempted remedies, so brutally casual and so insensitive. At the very worst, Mr. Speaker - and I repeat - at the very worst any Budget Speech sets out the pious hopes of a government, sets out a government • s vague strainings for solutions to standing problems, but this Budget Speech even jettisoned pious hopes. The Premier, not so very long ago, with that gall which distinguishes him from premiers elsewhere across the country, went to the people of Newfoundland in an election seeking a mandate to create jobs.

Never mind that the very idea of asking the Newfoundland people for their permission to lessen the thousand miseries of unemployment was an in jury to the common sense and the patience of every Newfoundlander. MR. J. CARTER: Are you reading a speech? MR. SIMMONS: Never mind that the establishment of a Commission on Unemployment extensive confession intellectual bankruptcy tired administration. tawdry Royal was an of from a Surely, Mr.

Speaker, after having the gigantic presumption to base an entire election on the promise to relieve unemployment, we, in the Opposition, or much more importantly, the people of Newfoundland, especially, the unemployed people of Newfoundland, had a right to expect from the budget which follows that election, in both signal and substance, that the government, the Premier- MR. J. CARTER: Ll503 June 10, 1985 Vol XL On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Greening:) A point of order, the hon. the member for St. John's North. MR. J. CARTER: The hon. member is speech. The rules of say he has to table it. MR.

SPEAKER: To that point of order. no point of order. reading a this House There is The hon. the member for Fortune-Hermitage. MR. SIMMONS: Mr. Speaker, surely after . having the gigantic presumption to base an entire election on the promise of employment surely we should have expected something more substantive. Surely we should have expected the government would take its own words, at least, half seriously. MR. J. CARTER: Turn the page now. Who wrote that? MR. SIMMONS: Mr. Speaker, we should have expected they would include in the budget government • s technicolour panarama for the year ahead.

A minimal of initiatives and programmes to check the cancerous spread of unemployment in this Province, not a full solution maybe, Mr. Speaker, not even half of one. But at least a show of action, some attempt to address the problem, a gesture that they over there were serious about approaching the problem, that they were awake to the diminsions of this disaster. that they had learned in the past month or so during the election campaign of the anguish and the pessimism and the despair that is being visited No. 29 Rl503

'II J., upon our people community. in almost every But what do we get, Mr. Speaker, in the budget? What did we really get? The latest chorus of the Premier's favourite hymn, Beaven, Hibernia, and me. Surely by now the Premier and his government realize that yet another eulogy on the offshore and its glorious promise, while the Province is starved for jobs, is an affront, an insult to every single one of the 50,000 or 60,000 Newfoundlanders out there out of work, and with really little prospect of finding any, if we may judge the administration's performance to date. Nor was the Throne Speech for that matter, Mr.

Speaker, which we had a short while before, any different in that respect. Indeed, Mr. Speaker, I was struck as I read the Throne Speech. That if you took out the word 'offshore' and all the sentences and paragraphs built around that word, the Throne Speech document of twenty-eight flabby pages would be reduced to about three thin pages •. , It was all offshore, bfi ::sJore and Utopia, Utopia. Now, Mr. Speaker, let us be clear. None of us will speak ill of the offshore.

We will speak ill, we will sound warnings of how we have been sold down the river on the offshore, in terms of Clause 54, but none of us will speak ill of the offshore, if and when, it brings the tumult of advantages that this administration is so tiredlessly and relentlessly advertised over the last decade. But surely now, Mr.

Speaker, in the context of the mandate that this government sought from the people so recently, a mandate to find . job~ Ll504 June 10, 1985 Vol XL now, to about deploy the misty pities Newfoundland's offshore future as a screen and deflection from the problems the Province is facing now, verges on the immoral, stands full square, as a piece of absolutely despicable politics, the kind of politics that I would fully presume the member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren) would have never been associated with. MR. FLIGHT: Nor the member for Port au Port (Mr. Hodder) • MR. SIMMONS: Nor the member for Port au Port. MR.

PATTERSON: (Inaudible). MR. SIMMONS: No, we were as usual complimenting our good friends, our emissaries in the alien land, the gentleman for Port au Port (Mr. Hodder) and the gentleman for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren) who have been sent out to seek out the lamb, and we are expecting them to report back in due course. But we understand they have been side-stepped by another assignment. I was somewhat confused first, or amused rather, by the seating assignment the first day when the House opened, but I figured it out after a day or so, who else to guard the former Minister of Fisheries (Mr.

Morgan), but two good Liberals. Now, Mr. Speaker, - MR. TOBIN: Are you saying they are still good Liberals? MR. SIMMONS: Well, I agree with the gentleman No. 29 Rl504

for Burin-Placentia West (Mr. Tobin) that it is kind of like saying yellow jaundice, jaundice is yellow anyway, and to say a good Liberal, a Liberal is good anyway, so there is no need of the word ' goo(! ' • I quite agree with him. He has been fooled many times about even simplier matters. Mr. Speaker, - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh. MR. SIMMONS: Did you have to raise the flag again? And how did you get it right side up without me? AN HON. MEMBER: There was no need to decide. MR. SIMMONS: Ah, do you have a flag? AN HON. MEMBER: Yes, sure. MR.

SIMMONS : You find if you use the Maple Leaf flag, it is easier to tell when the Maple Leaf is right side up, but with this oth .er one, I cannot figure which is right side up either myself. Let us get back to the budget, because it is much more on my mind now than the problems of flag raising. Three things can explain the government's paralysis, and that is the word for it, when it comes to attending to Newfoundland's unemployment crisis. Three things can explain the emptiness, the barrenness, the absolutely heartless vacuity of this outrageously neglectful Budget Speech. LlSOS June 10, 1985 Vol XL MR.

TOBIN: Say that again. MR. TULK: It is not good for him to repeat it. You would not understand it. DR. COLLINS: Could you say that again? All of it? MR. SIMMONS: I was talking about the vacuity of this speech, the neglectful nature of it. All right? The minister is with me now. Now, Mr. Speaker, . either the government is blind to the current tragedy of Newfoundland, and I really cannot accept that that is the case, because I know a number of the individuals over there fairly well and I cannot see how they can sit or stand idly by and allow such blindness to continue, if that is what it is.

Either the government is blind to the tragedy out there or it is aware of the desperate problems and, quite bluntly, does not have an inkling of how to approach them, or, Mr. Speaker, I would, with deep regret, reach this concJusion: It is not blind, but it does not care. It is either blind to the problem, or it does not know what to do about the problem, or it does not care about doing anything about the problem. Neither of the three propositions, Mr. Speaker, offers a very attractive propsect.

After all, we are stuck with this government for the next three or four years, unless they self-destruct, and they are in that process, they are already fighting among themselves because some of them did not get as big a plum as they thought they were going to get, and some of the more astute members, like the No. 29 RlSOS

gentleman for Humber Valley Woodford) has been left out things, a man who knows agricultural industry inside has been put there on the bench to almost rot, when should be further up. (Mr. of the out, back he r thought the only justice over there altogether was putting the gentleman for Conception Bay South (Mr. Butt) in the Environment portfolio. I thought as he answered his questions today that there was justice there. It is also the first time in British parliamentary history they have had a minister right on the back bench, and if ever there was a back-bench minister, then he is probably it. Now,. Mr.

Speaker, I was talking about the various possibilities. Either this government is blind to the problem out there, the tragedy that is kicking ordinary Newfoundlanders in the gut, - MR. BARRY: Is he the first back-bench minister in parliamentary history? . MR. SIMMONS.: ; .. 1 1 ·.·:I' think so~', · :t think! he is the very first. A good choice for a back-bench minister, there is no question about that. MR. W. CARTER: Back in 164 7, I think there was one. MR. SIMMONS: There was one before, in 1647. But that was before television, so we would not be as aware of it. Mr.

Speaker, I was saying there are three possibilities, either this government is blind to the tragedy out there that is disrupting family lives, kicking Ll506 June 10, 1985 Vol XL ordinary Newfoundlanders in the gut because they hardly have a straw of opportunity to grasp onto any more, hardly a hope of a job let alone a job, either they are blind to the problem, to the tragedy, or they do not know what to do about it , or they do not care to do anyting about it, and either one of these propositions, Mr.

Speaker, is not a very attractive prospect, given we are stuck with this han. crowd for the next three or four years, unless they continue to self-destruct, as they are on the road to doing. The central message, Mr. Speaker, of this Budget Speech is that one of the three that I have mentioned has to be true. Mr. Speaker, I would say that the budget is nothing more and nothing less than an instrument to blunt the hopes of Newfoundlanders, to confound their expectations, an instrument to intensify their anguish and to protract the misery of many of our brother and sister Newfoundlanders. Mr.

Speaker, if there were time remaining I would be delighted to go on and document some more of th:e misery which this budget visits upon ordinary Newfoundlanders, but I believe in the last few minutes I have been able to focus on two or three areas of concern, from the fishery to the offshore, but especially to the overriding tragedy which this administration continues to inflict on the ordinary people of Newfoundland. This administration, in varous forms, has been in power now for over thirteen years and the tragedy gets deeper • I suppose, Mr.

Speaker, the only safe and sensible conclusion you can come to is that this han. crowd does No. 29 Rl506

not care, they just do not care. That is the tragedy, that we have in government a group of people who sneaked in one last time. If there had been another two or three days they would be on this side of the House, but they sneaked in, bluffed the people one more time, and those people who have been bluffed will now suffer. They sneaked with with less than half the popular vote, 48 per cent, in a straight two-way fight almost. There were a few NDP votes ' here and there, nothing to get very excited about. In the great fishing district of Fortune - Hermitage there was a total of 152 NDP votes.

So, essentially it was a two-way fight, where the people of Newfoundland chose to do the sensible thing and ignore the so-called third party, or the excuse for a third party, and got down to the subject at hand. All the third party did as you know, Mr. Speaker, was act as spoilers. They, in effect, are the aiders and abetters, if these are terms, they are the people you have to point the finger to. They are the people that the Tories have to thank for sneaking back in office. MR. SPEAKER (Greening) : Order, please! The hon. member's time has elapsed. MR.

SIMMONS: There are the fellows who saved your hide down there. Have we run out of time, Mr. Speaker? MR. SPEAKER: Yes. MR. SIMMONS: Thank you very much. so, Mr. Speaker, in conclusion I would urge everybody in this chamber who has a care for Newfoundland to support the amendment that I have L1507 June 10, 1985 Vol XL moved to administration its uncaring, do anything problems , the people. condemn this for its blindness, and its failure to about the real tragedy facing our SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER The hon. member for Tom gat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Yes, Mr.

Speaker, I think I will have my few words to say also in this budget debate. Having listened to the hon. member for Fortune-Hermitage (Mr. Simmons) for the past two hours or an hour and a half, thirty-four minutes a day in the past week sometime, an hour and a half, I venture to say, Mr. Speaker, that if you go back, I think, since 1979 - I think I have spoken in every budget debate up until today - I think if hon. members would reflect back I had serious reservations when speaking to the budgets in the past five or six years. Now, Mr.

Speaker, I think one has to look at this budget and I also look at it in the light of what doe~ this budget have in store for my district in particular and for the whole of Labrador in general. Mr. Speaker, I think when the hon. Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) was reading the budget on budget day early into his budget debate he announced about $100,000 less on air subsidy, the air subsidy was going to be reduced from 25% to 20%. That at the beginning, Mr. Speaker, indeed to me and to a lot of Labrador people sounded like bad news.

In fact, it was bad news to some people in Labrador about the 5% reduction in air No. 29 Rl507

subsidy. However, when we look at it I would think that within a very, very short time, in a matter of days, we will see that this $100,000 that has been cut out of the air subsidy was only used by a very few people who could afford to come out to the Province. Mr. Speaker, only a very few people could afford that and those are the people that were benefiting from this 25% air subsidy,

whereas now - I would think the minister will be announcing it in a very short time - how not only this $100,000 will be going back to, in effect, help the people the people of Labrador - MR. TULK: (Inaudible. ) MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, before I continue any further, I have been quiet for the last thirty-five minutes when the hon. member for Fortune-Hermitage (Mr. Simmons) was speaking, so I would like to ask the Speaker for protection for the next half hour. MR. SPEAKER: , .. ' . ~ ' . , . Order, pleas~·! 1,· J • ~·.' 0 MR. FLIGHT: You are not going to go a half hour are you? MR. WARREN: Yes, Mr. Speaker.

In fact if I had more time I would go longer, Mr. Speaker. Because, Mr. Speaker, from what the hon. member for Fortune-Hermitage (Mr. Simmons) has just said - in fact I think I should begin by going to the defense of the NDP because, I think, Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the NDP and his party showed the Liberals that there is such a thing as a second party in this Ll508 June 10, 1985 Vol XL Province. And I think the Liberal Party under their illustrious leader were quite surprised that the NDP came up with 14% of the popular vote • So , Mr.

Speaker , I suggest to the hon. members on that side, do not take the NDP for granted any longer because they will form the official Opposition in the next election. They will form the official Opposition in the next election because you know why, Mr. Speaker, because the hon. leader of the NDP is already doing his ground work. In fact, it was only just about three weeks ago I saw a letter to the editor of The Evening Telegram asking all NDPs to run for municipal elections. So, Mr.

Speaker, you can see that the NDP leader is enroute, is trying to get rid of the Liberals as the official Opposition in this Province. So I have to give the hon. member credit for it. MR. PEACH: The Liberal Party has a good leadership. MR. WARREN: Well, I say to my colleague from Carbonear (Mr. Peach) that it would b~ a surprise to anybody in this Province if there is not a Liberal leadership ·campaign within two years. If you follow traditions you will see a Liberal leadership within two years, Mr. Speaker. Now, Mr.

Speaker, let me continue on some of the good things that are in this budget for my district and for Labrador. I understand that this government has allotted $200,000, an additional $200,000 to the Alcohol and Drug Dependency Commission. Mr. Speaker, I think we all realize, and I have said it the last five or six years, there is an alcohol problem in some areas of Newfoundland and No. 29 Rl508

Labrador, and there is in my district in particular. I think this will go a long way to alleviate and to assess this serious problem that is affecting and breaking up many families throughout Newfoundland and Labrador. I also $150,000 understand there for the hiring of is five five new councillors. Now new councillors, I am Speaker, will not be appointments. They selected from five people and they will the Liberal Party patronage appointments. those sure, Mr. patronage will be qualified not be, as has said, Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Fortune-Hermitage (Mr.

Simmons) also said that this party sneaked in with only a 48 per cent majority. Mr. Speaker, I believe if we looked back over it, the Liberal Party, in coalition with the NDP, are going to run the Ontario Legislature for the next number of years, and the Liberal Party, nor the NDP, had a majority. So one cannot say - MR. TULK: What about the combination? MR. WARREN: The combination, sure, the combination does outdo it, but the combination here does not, this is my point, Mr. Speaker. So let us forget about it. I advise the hon.

Liberal Party, hon. members, just wait and wait and I assure the hon. members al,so that they have a long, long wait. I should also say something else, Mr. Speaker, that I find myself and my colleague for Port au Port (Mr. Hodder) do find it very, very I guess we have to look upon ourselves as probably carrying the Ll509 June 10, 1985 Vol XL load for the Liberal Party in the last four years because there were only eight of us over there for the last four years and - MR. TULK: Tell us about it 'Garfield". Tell us how you carried the load. MR. WARREN: Yes, I will tell the hon. members about it.

For the last four years there were only eight of us over there and only one time during the estimates in the last two years were there points of order raised in the House of Assembly about not enough members attending the estimate committees. Now this year they have fifteen members over there and they still cannot attend and every day there are points of order coming up on attending the estimate committees. So something must be happening. I have a feeling that the hon. member for Port au Port (Mr.

Hodder) must have been doing a fantastic job the last two years as vice-chairman of those committees where he kept the members on that side occupied. Now if the hon. member for Fogo (Mr. Tulk) does not like what I am saying and he is the House Leader over there, and he · cannot get his act together, and today in Question Period to the hon.

Minister of Fisheries he was getting up almost like he had all the answers to all the questions he was going to ask the minister and he did not even know what kind of questions he was asking, so the hon. member - who is an educationalist - is going to have to learn something about the fishery as well. MR. FENWICK: (Inaudible). No. 29 Rl509

MR. WARREN: Well the hon. the Leader of the NDP realizes, I think he should have stayed behind for one more second though because talking about those patronage appointments that the hon. members bring up, about those appointments and in fact in The Evening Telegram today there are some thirty-six lawyers named, I should also mention that there is a former NDP candidate from the last election who has received some goodies from this government because we consider him qualified. I say to the hon. gentleman from Windsor-Buchans (Mr.

Flight) who was gone out of this House on a leave of absence, I am sure that after two or three years he will be on another leave of absence so I would suggest to the hon. gentleman, do not act like fools. You look like them but do not act like them. n Now, Mr. Speaker, let me also say in this programme we see an increase, in fact it was only last week I announced something like sixty-two projects from the SEED programme for the four districts in Labrador.

Yes, that is 1 • :r-,~ght, sixty-two projects for the'·· four districts in Labrador and you know when I made the telephone calls and advised them they were so excited, and some of them even said, "Where is our member?" MR. TULK: God help Labrador. MR. LUSH: Are their needs at that low a level? MR. WARREN: Now, Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for - not Terra Nova, Bona vista - he zigzags back and forth so I - Ll510 June 10, 1985 Vol XL MR. TULK: Bonavista North now. MR. WARREN: - Bonavista North, the hon. member for Bonavista North who was chicken to run in Terra Nova, and Mr.

Speaker, he figured, "I may as well go to Bonavista because it is the only chance I have to win in this next election. " However, in all due respect to the hon. member there were some sixty-two projects announced in Labrador under the SEED programme. The Department of Social Services this year is spending an extra $5 million in trying to get people off the social assistance role. That extra $5 million, I have not heard one person on that side who spoke so far mention about an increase in this department, not one word. And the hon.

Leader of the Opposition spoke for five days and he never spoke about one positive initiative that is mentioned in this budget. The hon. member, I think, for Port de Grave (Mr. Efford) just said there are no positive ind.tiatiy~~. Let me t~ll the hon. / 1 I ;' ! ' . I member just one positive thing and let him think about some others~ Mr. Speaker, there is already, as I just told him, $200,000 to fight alcohol and drug abuse in this Province. Is that not positive? The hon. member does not believe in that kind of stuff.

The hen. member stays quite all of a sudden because he does not believe in that kind of a thing. Mr. Speaker, let us look at something else. This year tenders have been called for a new school in the town of Nain, a new modern school. So we are going to see construction started on an all grade, modern school for the No. 29 Rl510

largest town in my district, and the most Northerly town in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. Now is that the kind of government that I am proud of? Yes, that is the kind of government that I am proud of, Mr. Speaker. AN HON. MEMBER: Who gave them the money? MR. WARREN: I am sure from the Speaker. MR. TULK: the money Liberal never Party, came Mr. Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): The member for Fogo on a point of order. MR. TULK: I know that the member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren) deserves an education and I would hope that the Government House Leader (Mr.

Marshall) , who has now come into the House, will keep him right. He is standing up there giving praise to the government for allocating money for a school in Nain. MR. FLIGHT: Do we have a denominational educati?n system or do we not? MR. SPEAKER (Greening): Order, please! MR. TULK: I could have told him in January that that was going to be done. It was done by the denominatinal education system and not by the government. Get it straight now. MR. MARSHALL: To that point of order. Ll511 June 10, 1985 Vol XL MR. SPEAKER: The hon. President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: The hon.

Fortune-Hermitage member ((Mr. for Simmons) was commencing into debate a few weeks ago and the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Barry), and the member for Fogo (Mr. Tulk), everyone was on their feet shouting and raging about the fact that he was being interrupted and his speech was being interrupted. MR. TULK: Who? MR. MARSHALL: The member for Fortune-Hermitage (Mr. Simmons), allegedly by people on this side of the House, and the member for Fogo (Mr. Tulk) is doing exactly the same thing. He is just interferring with the hen. gentleman's speech. MR.

SPEAKER (Greening): To that point of order, there is no point of order. The hen. member for Tom gat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Maybe, Mr. Speaker, I could also get the hon. gentleman for Fogo (Mr. Tulk) up again and probably he could tell us when he knew about the $1 million in the new agricultural subsidiary for the Province. Could the hon. member tell us that when he gets a chance to speak? Also the $1 million for the hog producers in this Province. I suppose the member already knew that last year to. Mr.

Speaker, I tell the hen. member that when I made the decision on Febraury 8 it may have hurt the hen. member but I tell him that it did not hurt my No. 29 Rl511

district or it did not hurt me. Because the best thing, Mr. Speaker, I did in my political life was when I made that decision on February 8. Mr. Speaker, I will say to the hon. gentleman for Fogo (Mr Tulk) that he has been so upset since February 8 that he has done everything, and, in fact, he has even got other people to call ~ me and try to convince me to come back. Now, get up and deny it. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. MR. SPEAKER (Greening): The hon. member for Fogo. MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, I will not have the hon. gentleman mislead the House.

I do not believe he is doing it because he knows the difference because I do not believe he does know the difference. MR. WARREN: Do you want me to tell you who it was? MR. TULK: . But, let me say this to him, as the member for Fortune-Hermitage (Mr. Simmons) said to him last week, when he crossed the House the IQ on this side went up and it also went up on the other side. MR. SPEAKER: To that point of order, there is no point of order. The hon. member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I am sure the hon. member gentleman cannot deny that.

There is no point of order Ll512 June 10, 1985 Vol XL so it is not right, Mr. Speaker. I can tell the hon. member that what I done on February 8 was in the best interests of all. Do not get to upset because, Mr. Speaker, it is unfortunate to the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Barry) and the Liberal Party· that this turn of events do take place. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. WARREN: That is true, yes. I do not mind saying it is true. I do not want to any names of persons or of what Liberal Association they are but I will leave it at that.

There have been unusual calls, most unusual calls received at my house and in the office after February 8. However, Mr. Speaker, I have just been reading Hansard from Friday and there were a few major announcements from my district made in this House on Friday by the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Rideout) and by the Minister of Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development (Mr. Aylward). I was just reading from the comments there and you would not know, Mr. Spe 1 ¥~r, and, in ! f ,act/ · 1 I would 'honestly believe /:, that ·· the hon. member for Fogo (Mr.

Tulk) does not know there are any people living on Torngat Mountains. Mr. Speaker, at least the hon. member should not only congratulate the minister for bringing in an increase for the price of salmon and char but he should be so pleased that he should do what he is elected to do and get once in a while on the radio and TV and announce what kind of a positive move this government is making for the fishermen in Northern Labrador. Now, Mr. Speaker, would the hon. member for Kilbride (Mr. Aylward) the Minister of Rural, No. 29 Rl512

Agricultural and Northern Development, the increase that he promised to the senior citizens. If senior citizens can receive a 10 per cent discount in Carbonear or in St. John's, why can they not receive it up in Nain or Makkovik which the minister has obliged to do so. Mr. Speaker, let me just say that this budge~ does contain some goodies for my district. This budget does contain some goodies for Labrador. On page 14, for example, there are three tax initiatives never once mentioned by the Opposition over there.

They have not once mentioned the three tax exemptions in this budget: "Purchase of electricity and fuel consumed in . farming will be exempt from retail sales tax." Now, that was good news for the farmers. And the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Barry) spoke for five days and ·not once did he mention the farmers, not once! Now, Mr. Speaker, "Purchases of trapping equipment and supplies by commercial trappers will be exempt from retail sales tax." Now, this is most positive in Coastal Labrado~. Do you kilow why, Mr. Speaker? Because handicrafts are their secondary industry. MR. BARRY: (Inaudible) (inaudible). MR.

WARREN: mentai health Mr. Speaker, if there is, I am sure the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Barry) will be the first candidate. The next item, Mr. Speaker, is •purchase of handicraft projects such as sewn or knitted products, woodwork and pottery will be exempt from retail sales tax.• Ll513 June 10, 1985 Vol XL Mr. Speaker, it is amazing that in the Estimate Committees it is the same way, the two hon. gentlemen get awfully upset, they are awfully conc~rned.

I suggest to the two hon. gentlemen that they go back and get answers for the past six years and they may be able to find some intelligent questions that I asked when I was over there that they may want to ask. There might be a reason, Mr. Speaker, for them to ask some intelligent questions. MR. FLIGHT: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Greening): On a point of order, the hon. the member for Windsor - Buchans. MR. FLIGHT: Before time runs out, I wonder if the bon. member would give the House his position on low-level flying out of Goose Bay? MR.

SPEAKER (Greening): To that point of order, there is not point of order. The hon. the member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman did ask me a question and I would be only too glad to respond. If, Mr. Speaker, low-flying is carried out in a proper manner, a manner that will not affect the health of the people up there, then, by all means, it should go ahead. I should say, Mr. Speaker, the member for Naskaupi (Mr. Kelland) is also in agreement with low-flying, so it is not only the members on this side of the House who are in agreement.

Only some members opposite are in disagreement with low-level flying. MR. TOBIN: No. 29 Rl513

What is the position of their party? MR. WARREN: position of only some They are that one. No, that is not the the party, there are people in that party. split down the middle on Mr. Speaker, let me continue by saying to the~ bon. gentleman that this budget does contain some positive initiatives that will assist people in Newfoundland and Labrador. All we have to do is look at some of the positive things that are happening, for example, in our fishery. There is initiatives in the budget for the fishery, there are initiatives for sawmilling.

There are initiati~es for health, with respect to senior citizens' homes and for hospitals. What do hon. members want? Now, Mr. Speaker, tomorrow, I have a meeting tentatively scheduled for 12:30 P.M., with the Minister of Education (Mr. Hearn) and a delegation from my district, who are here on a concern that has been brought forward in the Estimates Committee, namely, to have the Inuit language introduced in all the schools in Newfoundland and Labrador. Quorum MR.. SPEAKER (Greening) : A quorum is present. The hon. the member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Let me continue, Mr. Speaker.

We have an opportunity with the new Minister of Education (Mr. Hearn), and with the co-operation of the Ll514 June 10, 1985 Vol XL Native groups in Labrador and the member from the district, it is quite possible that we will see an Inuit language book introduced into our schools in Newfoundland and Labrador. The people of Labrador are looking forward to it, and it will be the first of its kind, a book compiled by a sixty-four year old Inuit lady in Nain. The book will contain pictures and both the English and Inuit language, and it will be introduced in our schools, hopefully, as soon as possible. SOME BON.

MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WARREN : This, Mr. Speaker, will show again the positive attitude of this government towards the Native People's of this Province. Mr. Speaker, I would say to the hon. member it would be heavy stuff for any school child in Grade II or Grade III in Newfoundland and Labrador. It would be great. It would show that we are part of this Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. It shows a commitment by this government that the Native people have to be ·recognized and it is their cul th'r~ : that we J:re maintaining. In fact, tying into Native culture, Mr.

Speaker, and speaking on behalf of the Minister of Consumer Affairs and Communications (Mr. Russell), I attended the official opening of the Okaalakatigiit Society in Nain on Friday and, Mr. Speaker, to see some $200,000 of federal and provincial money going into this society in Nain into radio broadcasting that will continue for two hours per day in English and Inuit until infinity, I hope. It is going to be tied into the CBC broadcasting and we are going No. 29 Rl514 ·s (

to see a TV and radio station established in the town of Nain. This happened this past weekend. Mr. Speaker, when I spoke to the group they were so pleased with the initiative and how fast action has been taken and how fast things are happening in the district, the biggest question I am getting in my district now is why did you not cross the floor earlier? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, Hear! MR. WARREN: And, Mr. Speaker, when I look back I get so mad with myself that sometimes I feel like kicking myself that I did not make the move earlier. So, Mr.

Speaker, you can see that what is happening it shows that all this government needed was someone to explain to them the frustrations of the people in the district and this government, the Premier and the ministers, are coming through in flying colours. They are showing that the people of Labrador will not be treated as second class citizens. When I was in the Opposition I had a heck of a time to convince them that there is people living up in Labrador. MR. FLIGHT: Labrador does not have a minister. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I would say that Labrador does have a minister.

The Minister of Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development (Mr. R. Aylward) is a good minister, a minister that I am proud of. There on Friday, an increase for senior citizens in the stores that he operates. so, Mr. Speaker, what is wrong · with the Minister of Rural, Agricultural and Northern Ll515 June 10, 1985 Vol XL Development? Nothing at all. Now, Mr. Speaker, I can see that my time is getting short but I got so much to say. SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave. MR. WARREN: Well I am going to continue, Mr. Speaker, because there is so much. Now, Mr.

Speaker, this year there is over $3 million allotted for water and sewerage in Southern Labrador, in the district of Eagle River. In a Liberal district. Now, Mr. Speaker, I do not know why it is but I got a feeling it must have something to do with my conversations with the minister and everything else because after just coming back from Red Bay there a couple of months ago and telling him about the frustrations that the people in Southern Labrador have to go through, now we can see some monies coming through. Mr. Speaker, let me also say there is a $12 million airstrip being built in Hopedale.

Now I know the hon. the member for Fogo (Mr. Tulk) is going to say that was a federal Liberal commitment and you are exactly right, it was a _federal Liberal move but it was supposed to start in 1988. As soon as Mr. Mulroney and his Tory government took over in September, one of the first things they decided was to put it ahead two years and to start the construction this year. So instead of 1988 the construction is starting this Fall. So three years faster than it was supposed to happen. Now, some Mr. Speaker, let us look at other things that are No. 29 Rl515

happening in Labrador. Do you know what the Minister of Consumer Affairs and Communications (Mr. Russ~ll) is doing? He is setting up a Consumer Office in Happy Valley - Goose Bay, in a Liberal district. Now, Mr. Speaker, you can see that this government is concerned about all aspects of Labrador, all the areas of Labrador and for the membet's to say, and listening to what the hon. member today in one of the estimate committees said, 1 Is it because it is a Liberal district that we do not get this or we do not get that. 1 I think that is not true, it never was true. AN HON. MEMBER: You said you crossed for it. MR.

WARREN: No, Mr. Speaker, I said I crossed to get more things for my district. I did not say I would not get anything. I said I crossed to get more things and Mr. Speaker, I am getting more things. In fact, Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. member should realize that in 1980 I brought a resolution into this hon. House asking for an air/ambulance programme in this Province for · Labrador and that programme was approved and voted on unanimously by both sides of this House and subsequently this government brought it · into effect. So, Mr.

Speaker, it is quite possible it does have some effect on what an individual can do for a district. I suggest to the hon. member for Bonavista North (Mr. Lush) - MR. SIMMS: What about (inaudible)-MR. WARREN: the Ll516 June 10, 1985 member who Vol XL I have to say to the hon. Minister of Forest Resources and Lands (Mr. Simms) that one particular candidate, and I do not want to say this but I think it is only fair to leave the names off, that even on election day he did not know whether he was a Liberal or a Tory. so that shows, Mr. Speaker, that there are people over there who are very anxious to come over here.

MR. TOLK: (Inaudible). MR. WARREN: No, Mr. Speaker, I advise the hon. member for Fogo that I have some propaganda here that was spread out by my opponent and I should say about $44,000 worth, that is the estimates that he spent on his campaign, and I could tell the hon. gentleman that you know the hon. gentleman I respect him. He has been a great help to me five or six years, however he will not give me a car now when I go to Goose Bay, he will not even loan me a car now. MR. TOLK: Do you use his airplane now? I, MR. WARREN: No, Mr.

Speaker, in fact in the 1982 election, I believe he crashed his airplane, his airplane crashed in Hopedale accidentally. MR. TULK: You used it in the election too, did you not? MR. WARREN: Yes, that is why I say crashed, it crashed during the election of 1982. AN RON. MEMBER: Was it deliberate? No. 29 Rl516 1:

MR. WARREN: No, Mr. Speaker, it was not deliberately. But there are some interesting things in this brochure that my hen. opponent promised and, naturally, I would think that if he was elected he would have tried to carry them out. I think we all try to do the same thing, because the same promises that he made were the same promises that he got off my brochure before he put his out. So, Mr.

Speaker , the same promises, the same thing about land claims, about an increase in fishery prices and more housing, were the same things that went from my brochure and my brochure was in all the houses about a week before his brochure came out. However, Mr. Speaker, one should get a chance to read because he does have quite a few comments there concerning me and especially for the last six years before I joined this party.

And he did go back and pick out some comments and a lot of the comments naturally were my concerns expressed at the time and I was quite pleased that he could at least enlighten me on them again because since I saw these comments do you know that I have gotten positive action. I have taken · these 'comments to the appropriate ministers and I have positive action on it so I have to say one thing that my opponent did for me in the last election was he brought to the light some of the concerns that I expressed and some of those concerns now I am taking to the proper ministers and we are getting action on them. MR.

SPEAKER (Greening): Order, please! The hon. member's time has elapsed. Ll517 June 10, 1985 Vol XL MR. WARREN: I could go on, Mr. Speaker, for hours and hours if I could. SOME HON. MEMBERS : By leave. MR. SPEAKER: By leave. MR. SPEAKER: Ok~y, Mr. Speaker, let me just say that my hen. opponent has done me a world of good. Let me just read one. I said on December 4, 1984, "This administration is trying to run roughshod over the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. " I said that in 1984. Now, Mr.

Speaker, the reason I said that was because I believed it at the time but now talking to the ministers and getting their side of the story and explaining to me what is happening I could believe that they were not. There were things ·happening that I did not know were happening, Mr. Speaker. Now, Mr. Speaker, you know the hen. member asked me a question, did I ever talk with the Premier before I came over. I spoke to the Premier before I came over. Now, Mr.

Speaker~ those issues right here, you know these are over the past six years and one does not know about them until they are brought forward - you know .I have not got the mind that the hon. member for Bona vista North has, I cannot think about all those things, there are so many positive things happening in my district that I do not recall those things. Now, Mr. Speaker, one other thing that has been brought to my attention, and this does include all of Labrador and that is interpreting services in the hospitals and in the correctional No. 29 Rl517

centre. About ten days ago, I received a letter from an individual who was in the Curtis Memorial Hospital in St. Anthony who could not speak one word of English whatsoever, and in order for the doctor to communicate with this individual, a patient who was ready to go back to Nain was asked to stay back in the hospital for an extra seven to ten days to do

interpretation between the doctor and that patient. I cannot tolerate that, neither does this patient and neither should we tolerate it. I think the hospital in St. Anthony should have

interpretation services there that are available because it is good for the patient and it is also good for the doctor. MR. FLIGHT: Could the member translate for them? MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): Order, please! The han. member's time has elapsed. SOME BON. MEMBERS: By leave! By leave! MR. SPEAKER By leave. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member asked me could I translate for them. No, Mr. Speaker, I advise the han. member that I cannot speak the language. This is why, Mr. Speaker, we have been neglected for a number of years. This language should be available in our schools.

I would like to see the French programme in our schools but I would also like to see this kind of programme in our schools as well. MR. SIMMS: Ll518 June 10, 1985 Vol XL They have a radio station, do they not? MR. WARREN: Yes, Mr. Speaker, they do have their own radio station. Mr. Speaker, I might add also that although I cannot speak the Inuit language, I can communicate very well with the Indians in Davis Inle~. I have done it on occasion.

In fact, I had the unique opportunity in 1968 of teaching the Indians in Davis Inlet the basic English skills and at the same time I was fortunate enough to learn the Indian language as well. SOME BON. MEMBERS: God help them! MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, all I could hear on that side was "God help them". I would say, Mr. Speaker, when I travel in my district I am not a person who is ignorant to the concerns of the people as the han. Leader of the Opposition ( Mr ~ Barry) is. I would like to say that I was very serious , that in our hospitals where life is at stake there has to be

interpretation services available. I have written to the Executive Director of the IGA. I sent a copy to our minister and I am hopeful that in due course the necessary action will be taken to rectify this condition. Also, the same thing in our correctional center in Goose Bay and in the Paddon Memorial where - by the way in the Paddon Memorial they do have an interpre~ation official there who does all the interpreting that is needed. The Paddon Memorial Home for the senior citizens are well looked after by this government. There is an interpreter there. No. 29 Rl518

But there is no one on staff at the correctional center, neither is there one on staff at the IGA Hospital in St. Anthony but, hopefully, in due course, that will be alleviated. Mr. Speaker, also during the past weekend I spoke to the Band council in Davis Inlet and during that time, Mr. Speaker, I asked them the same question that the hen. gentleman for Bonavista North (Mr. Lush) asked me just now, what were their concerns about low flying. The hen. member for Windsor Buchans (Mr. Flight) I think asked me.

They brought an incident to my attention that happened about a month and a half ago that they were concerned about. So subsequently I have taken this incident to the base commander in Goose Bay and the base commander said, "You let us know where you are to and there will be no low flying in your area•. Now, how fair can you be? MR. FLIGHT: (Inaudible.) This was the same. MR. WARREN: My constituents are saying this, this is why · I met with them. I just met with them. MR. FLIGHT: That is not what you just said. MR. WARREN: I am not the member for Naskaupi (Mr. Kelland) • SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR.

SPEAKER (McNicholas): Order, please! MR. WARREN: You are constituents talking about of Naskaupi. the Mr. Ll519 June 10, 1985 Vol XL Speaker, I am trying to tell the hen. gentlemen that I look after Torngat. The Premier (Mr. Peckford) has asked me to look after the other three districts. I am trying to do what I can, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I assure the hen. gentleman that if he wants someone to look after Buchans I will look after Buchans too. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WARREN: So, Mr. Speaker, let me try to tell the hen. gentleman - AN HON.

MEMBER: You already have a district to look after. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): Order, please! MR. WARREN: Let me try to tell the hen. gentleman that not one . of my constituents - I have spoken to theLIA, I'have spoken to the Band council in Davis Inlet - that they have not yet came out. The only ones that came out wer~ the Indians in North West River. These are the ones that came out publicly. These are the ones that got the Green Party from Germany over there. These are the ones, the same party that destroyed the seal fishery. These are the people, and these are the people that this party is supporting. SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): No. 29 Rl519

Order, please! MR. WARREN: You are supporting the Green Party of Germany. This is what you are saying. MR. FLIGHT: You are a dreadful (inaudible). MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): Order, please! Order, please! MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I asked legitimate questions on low flying last year. And, Mr. Speaker, from the answers I got, I am satisfied that low flying has to continue. The member from Naskaupi, I believe his position is the same as mine. MR. FLIGHT: What about Mr. Goudie and Mr. Strachan? MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, you better ask Mr. Goudie and Mr.

Strachan those questions if you want to. If you have not got their phone number I will give you their phone number. Now, Mr. Speaker, let me continue by saying that the member - you see the problem is unfortunately the member for Windsor-Buchans (Mr. Flight) does not know the boundaries of the different districts in Labrador. That is the problem with the member. Now, what I am going to do, Mr. Speaker, tomorrow I am going to get a map of Labrador and I am going to draw the four boundaries and pass them on to the hon. member. At least, Mr. Speaker, then he will know where the boundaries are.

In fact, I will also ask the Commander, Colonel Ll520 June 10, 1985 Vol XL David to send him in a top plan of the areas where the low flying is taking place. Mr. Speaker, if he wants all of this I can surely accommodate the hon. member. Mr. Speaker, in order to get to Labrador you have to go on EPA or Labrador Airways and you fly into Goose Bay. That is the way you get there. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. WARREN: No, Mr. Speaker, I think I said it the best way, I am in support of low flying in Labrador, if it does not affect the health and wildlife of the area. Mr.

Speaker, this government is making commitments that those assessments will be carried out. I spoke to the President of LIA on Friday night. Like he said, •how can we be against low flying when we do not know if there are going to be any affects?" You know, that is a logic statement to make. How can you be against it? He is a very sensible, intelligent human being. How can we be against low flying if we do not know if there are g~ing to be any affect~ or not? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. WARREN: The hon. gentleman does not know the difference. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): Order, please!

MR. WARREN: I should second the hon. Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Rideout) • The hon. gentleman for Windsor-Buchans (Mr. FLight) does not know the No. 29 R1520

difference between Innu and Inuit. So that is the only problem. Again tomorrow if he wants me to I will get him a picture of both and see if he can illustrate from the picture. I do not know what I can do for the hon. gentleman. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. WARREN: You know, I am going to have to do something.

I tell you what I am going to have to do, in fact, this Summer, once the House closes, I am going to be up in Labrador most of the Summer and if the hon. gentleman wants to come up I will take him around the district and let him meet some of the people, so that he can know the difference between the Innu and the Inuit. In fact, Mr. Speaker, this Summer, I suppose I can make an announcement. I am glad to announce this Summer that the Minister of Education (Mr. Hearn), the Minister of Municipal Affairs (Mr. Doyle) and the Minister of Forest Resources and Lands (Mr. Simms) and the Minister of Fisheries (Mr.

Rideout), I think there are nine ministers coming to Labrador this Summer. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hearl MR. WARREN: Mr. Speak~r, at least nine. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, ohl MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I would suggest that if any hon. colleague on the other side, any hon. member of the Opposition would like to come up to Labrador during the Summertime - Ll521 June 10, 1985 Vol XL AN HON. MEMBER: Oh, oh! MR. WARREN: Now, Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman should not bring that subject into my speech, because I do not like to talk about these kinds of things. Mr.

Speaker, the hon. gentleman should realize that he is just trying to get me to say something now and get him going again, but I do not want to get into a debate with the hon. gentleman because, I think, Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman for Windsor - Buchans (Mr. FL~ght) has just learned a lesson in history and geography - MR. FLIGHT: What about English? MR. WARREN: No, Mr. Speaker, I will leave the English up to the hon. gentleman. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. WARREN: No, Mr. Speaker, the low flying will not be flying over the Torngat Mountains. It will not be close to the Torngat Mountains. MR.

FLIGHT: Will it be flying over your district? MR. WARREN: Yes, Mr. Speaker, it will be flying over the district. I would . like to say also, one good thing, I have to say this to the hon. member the member for Naskaupi (Mr. Kelland) and the member for Menihek (Mr. Fenwick) and the member for Torngat Mountains, I believe we are so close, on the same position on low flying. But, however, the member for Eagle River (Mr. Hiscock)- No. 29 Rl521

SOME HON. MEMB ERS : Oh, oh! MR. WARREN: He is low flying all right, but not in Labrador. Now, Mr. Speaker, we, three members, have pretty well the same position on low flying. Mr. Speaker, I do not know about the member for Eagle River, I do not know how influential he is on the rest of the party over there, but I can say in all honesty that the bon. member for Naskaupi who is an intelligent individual, who is concerned about the biggest problem that this party is talking about unemployment, and he is concerned that next year there could be 2, 300 jobs in Goose Bay.

He is concerned about that, and that party over there now is condoning it. It is condoning it because there could possibly be 2, 300 jobs in Goose Bay next Summer. MR. FLIGHT: 2,300? MR. WARREN: Yes, 2,300, Mr. Speaker. Where are those figures coming from, Mr. Speaker? Let me tell the hon. gentleman, I cannot tell the good gentleman anything. You know, I have already told him how to find Labrador, what else does he want me to tell him? MR. FLIGHT: Eight years in Davis Inlet tends to affect one, does it not? MR. WARREN: But, Mr.

Speaker, let me tell the hon. gentleman that the people in Davis Inlet are as intelligent as the bon. gentleman is. Ll522 June 10, 1985 Vol XL SOME HON. MEMB E.RS: Hear, hear! MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, eight years in Davis Inlet, I do not know what he is talking about. In fact, I spent twenty-four months there. Mr. Speaker, let me tell the hon. gentleman that they are pleased, because in the community of Nain • the NDP candidate who took me on in the last election has gotten a grant of $20,000 to provide two statues for the Confederation Complex. Now, Mr. Speaker, what do you think of that?

The hon. gentleman opposite is going to dig the hole deeper if he is not careful. My people, the people of Nain are quite pleased. The first thing they said to me on the weekend was, 'Garfield, boy, you got John Terriak a job.' They are really proud of it. Another thing they said was, 'There is one thing about you, you do not care if a person is Liberal, Tory or NDP, you will help anybody.' And, Mr. Speaker, I will stand up for anybody and try to get jobs for them, regardless of what political party they belong to •. Now, are there any other questions from the hon. gentleman? He has asked me quite a few so far.

I will entertain any he wants to ask me. The hon. gentleman did ask me about my district. This year twenty-four more houses are going to be built in my district by Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation, under the Native Peoples agreement. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, . I would like to tell No. 29 Rl522

hon. gentlemen that what I did on February 8 was good news for the people of my district, and hon. gentlemen should realize that Labrador will not be neglected as long as I am on this side of the House. MR. FLIGHT: While he is at it, would the hon. member tell us how he feels about the teachers' situation? MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I am talking about Labrador now. I just came back from Labrador, and while I was there I spoke to the school principal in Nain, Mr.

Thor Manson, and he said he was pleased to have a member who is fighting for the teachers, but he also said, 'If there are teachers out there who are causing a fuss, let us get rid of them.' That was his attitude, Mr. Speaker. The teachers in Labrador are pleased really pleased to have this member standing up for them. In fact, I am surprised the hon. member has not come out in support of my idea of having a separate bargaining unit for Labrador teachers. What has the member not supported it? He does not kno~ where Labrador is; that is why. MR. TOBIN: Do you support it? SOME HON. MEMBERS: No. No. MR.

SPEAKER (McNicholas): Order, please! Order, please! MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I will continue to support policies which will help the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. This government has shown in the past number of months that they are concerned, and it Ll523 June 10, 1985 Vol XL was because of the concern they are showing for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador that I joined this party, particularly the concern shown my district. And the hon. gentleman should remember that to you have to know something about Labrador in order to ask questions.

The only thing the hon. member knows about Labrador is that he was there as Bill Rompkey's campaign manager in 1982 or 1983, sometime. That was the only time he ever travelled to Labrador, during Bill Rompkey's election campaign. MR. FLIGHT: Tell us what you did in that campaign. MR. WARREN: What did I do in that campaign? I would say I delivered the coast of Labrador to the party opposite, and I did it against the wishes of the hon. gentleman, by the way. I delivered the coast to Mr. Rompkey. But I should now advise the hon. gentleman that when the next federal election is called, Mr.

Rompkey will not be winning the Torngat Mountains district. He already lost one last time. AN HON.- MEMBER: Are you sure of that? MR. WARREN: You are never sure of anything, really, but let me put it this way, r would be satisfied to go to Torngat· Mountains with a good candidate, when the next federal election is called, and take on Mr. Rompkey. And maybe that candidate is here. We do not know, but it is quite possible. MR. FLIGHT: You know what they did to member for Labrador West. fed him to the wolves, are the They they No. 29 Rl523

going to feed you to them, too? MR. WARREN: The hon. member must remember that during the last federal election I was of a different political stripe and I could not do too much to help Mr. Peter Walsh. But, I can tell the hon. gentleman, if that were now, I would be out helping Mr. Walsh and, I would say, Mr. Walsh would win. SOME HON. MEMBERS: That is right! That is right! MR. WARREN: I would love for the hon. gentleman and myself to go up against each other as campaign managers in the next federal election to see who would win. Now, Mr.

Speaker, we were talking about the budget and the hon. the member for Windsor - Buchans got up three or four times and tried to get things going about Labrador. In my concluding remarks I want to say I am quite pleased with the Minister of Finance's (Dr. Collins) budget. MR. FLIGHT: We are going to now, Mr. -speaker. him one minute. withdraw leave We will give MR.

WARREN: In concluding, I might say that I have differed with the Minister of Finance during the past six years, I have torn his budgets apart from cover to cover, however, looking through this budget I must say that the Minister of Finance has a heart of gold, the Minister of Finance is concerned, the Minister of Finance is putting forward initiative that will help Newfoundlanders and maybe not tomorrow, day. Thank you. Labradorians, but the next Ll524 June 10, 1985 Vol XL SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): The hon member for Twillingate. MR. W. CARTER: Mr.

Speaker, I am not going to dwell at length on the speech made by my friend but there were a few points, I think, he made that maybe reference should be made to. One, of course, having to do with his allegation that members on this side have been courting him with a view to maybe joining the other party and the government. I do not think that statement, Mr. Speaker, unchallenged, I do not should be allowed to put should go think it that kind of a cloud over the heads of hon. members on this side of the House.

His ·comment that there would be nine ministers visiting Labrador this year, I am not sure if he was bragging or complaining about that, maybe the latter would be more appropriate. If the hon. member's government, the one that he supports, will keep their promise to the people of Twillingate district, the promises that were made in the last election, which I will talk about later, then I could not care less whether the ministers come to my district or not. All I want are the things that were promised. Mr.

Speaker, I rise to support the amendment so ably presented by my colleague the member for Fortune-Hermitage (Mr. Simmons). It is difficult to support the budget. It was a very disappointing document that we all had to go through on May 16. Once again the government gave lip service really to the issues facing the Newfoundland people. In my view it was a brassy,. empty No. 29 Rl524

document. I think, the Liberal Party must be given credit for the fact that there were no tax increases in that Budget. It was only because we brought that issue to the fore during the campaign that the Premier then stated categorically that there would be no tax increases in the May 16 budget. But, Mr. Speaker, if it were not so serious, of course, that kind of a statement· would be laughable because the Premier should realize that there is nothing left to tax. You cannot take blood from a turnip and the Premier has promised not to impose additional taxation on the Newfoundland people.

Of course, in effect, he was saying that the Newfoundland people cannot afford to be taxed any more heavily that what they are at the present time. We now have record taxation in this Province, Mr. Speaker, record sales tax, we have a record in almost all respects. We have record unemployment. I think about one third of the population of our Province, really, are now out of work. And, of course, we see about 40 per cent of the young people of Newfoundland are also · out of work and that is a very frightening and a very serious rna tter. But, Mr. Speaker, I think the reason for that problem is quite obvious.

For six or seven years now we have had a do-nothing government and I think that is a pretty fair statement. Their answer to the unemployment problem, to the critical and very serious problem of unemployment was to appoint a Royal Commission on Employment and Unemployment, to pay very substantial daily stipends to a number of people who do not need it, who are now going around the Ll525 June 10, 1985 Vol XL Province trying to find out what is wrong with the economy that we have so much unemployment. And, in fact, I am told, in many cases there are not even getting any attendance.

People are not taking that Royal Commission seriously. Nor should they. I think the government would now be well advised to save the taxpayers some money and abolish that Royal Commission without any further ado. In fact, I would strongly recommend, Mr. Speaker, that the money being spent on that Royal Commission would be better spent if a commission were appointed to look at ways and means of de-regulating, at least removing some of the obnoxious government regulations that today are handicapping, especially small business, and the people generally.

There is a way that employment could be created to help the small business and the private sector, help them survive without the obnoxious burden of having to deal with bureaucrats who stay awake at night seeking ways and means to make it rough for a small businessman to operate. Mr. Speaker, for ·six years now, during the time whEm we have experienced record unemployment, when the economy has been at an all time low, we have seen record bankruptcies, personal bankruptcies, corporate bankruptcies. We have seen record foreclosures on homes, record taxation, and as I said, record unemployment.

We have seen nothing but a government headed by a Premier who has been posturing as the fighting Newfoundlander, stripped to the waist, challenging anybody and everybody bare-knuckles, and accomplishing nothing. And while he has been doing that, Mr. Speaker, like I No. 29 Rl525

said, we have had record bankruptcies under all headings. I think if one were to read The Evening Telegram any day in the week, especially on weekends, and see the number of foreclosures that are appearing in the advertisement

section of that paper, it is not hard to understand why I make that statement. MR. SI MM S: In the last couple of years. MR. W. CARTER: No, no. bankruptcies think are - not decreased. MR. BARRY: Doubled . MR. W. CARTER: The and they number of foreclosures I certainly have More than doubled, I am sure we do have the highest rate of bankruptcies, Mr. Speaker, in Atlantic Canada and by far the greatest in all of Canada. The only people who appear to have benefitted really from the policies of the government opposite, Mr.

Speaker, would be law firms, for example, who represent some of these poor creatures who had their homes taken from them by banks and other lending institutions who have very little sympathy for the plight of the poor, especially the plight of the working poor. We have a budget, Mr. Speaker, that came down on May 16 in which less than 1 per cent was allocated for the fishing industry which, of course, we all must realize is the most important industry in the Province, certainly the biggest source of employment and I believe the only long-term solution.

And I say that with great respect to Ll526 June 10, 1985 Vol XL our efforts to develop the offshore and other sectors of the economy. But I still contend that the fishing industry is still the big hope for the future, certainly for the long-term future of our Province. We hear these days lots of talk about the so-called restructuring of the Newfoundland fishing industry. Let me say this to you: Mr. Speaker, I have some knowledge o