Manitoba Hansard — 6 May 2002 (Sitting 26, 37th Legislature, 3rd Session)

37-3-26

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session- Thirty-Seventh Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LII No. 26- 1:30 p.m., Monday, May 6, 2002

Member AGLUGUB, Cris ALLAN, Nancy ASHTON, Steve, Hon. ASPER, Linda BARRETT, Becky, Hon. CALDWELL, Drew, Hon. CERILLI, Marianne CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. CUMMINGS, Glen DACQUA Y, Louise DERKACH, Leonard DEWAR, Gregory DOER, Gary, Hon. DRIEDGER, Myrna DYCK, Peter ENNS,Harry FAURSCHOU, David FRIESEN, Jean, Hon. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. GILLESHAMMER, Harold HA WRANIK, Gerald HELWER, Edward HICKES, George JENNISSEN, Gerard KORZENIOWSKJ, Bonnie LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. LAURENDEAU, Marcel LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. LOEWEN, John MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. MAGUIRE, Larry MALOWAY,Jim MARTINDALE, Doug McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. MIHYCHUK, MaryAnn, Hon.

MITCHELSON, Bonnie MURRAY, Stuart NEV AKSHONOFF, Tom PENNER, Jack PENNER, Jim PITURA, Frank REID, Daryl REIMER, Jack ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. ROCAN, Denis RONDEAU, Jim SALE, Tim, Hon. SANTOS, Conrad SCHELLENBERG, Harry SCHULER, Ron SELINGER, Greg, Hon. SMITH, Joy SMITH, Scott, Hon. STEFANSON, Heather STRUTHERS, Stan TWEED, Mervin WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Seventh Legislature Constituency The Maples St. Vital Thompson Riel Inkster Brandon East Radisson Kildonan Ste.

Rose Seine River Russell Selkirk Concordia Charleswood Pembina Lakeside Portage Ia Prairie Wolseley River Heights Minnedosa Lac du Bonnet Gimli Point Douglas Flin Flon St. James The Pas St. Norbert La Verendrye Fort Whyte St. Johns Arthur-Virden Elmwood Burrows Lord Roberts Minto River East Kirkfield Park Interlake Emerson Steinbach Morris Transcona Southdale Rupertsland Carman Assiniboia Fort Rouge Wellington Rossmere Springfield St. Boniface Fort Garry Brandon West Tuxedo Dauphin-Roblin Turtle Mountain Swan River Political Affiliation N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P.

N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. Lib. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P.

1037 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Monday, May 6, 2002 The House met at 1 :30 p.m. PRAYERS ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS TABLING OF REPORTS Mr. Speaker: I am pleased to table the Annual Report of the Chief Electoral Officer for the year 2000, which also encompasses a report on the conduct of the November 21, 2000, by-elections in Kirkfield Park and Tuxedo, and which also contains the annual reports on The Elections Act and The Elections Finances Act. MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS CN Trail Derailment (Firdale) Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Trans portation and Government Services): I have a ministerial statement. Mr.

Speaker, I would like to report to the House on the emergency response following the truck-train collision on Thursday near Firdale. The collision caused 21 of the 70 cars on a CN Rail train to derail, and 14 of these cars became involved in a very serious fire involving benzene and hexane. As a result of Thursday's incident, 225 Manitobans had to leave homes, farms and businesses and were accommodated by family and friends, with a reception centre established in the community of MacGregor.

I can advise the House that thankfully neither the train crew nor the truck driver received serious injuries and that the fire was contained as of early Saturday afternoon. I inspected the site of the fire on Saturday and met with local residents that afternoon and am pleased to report that no residents were injured in this incident and all evacuees were able to return to their homes by 6 p.m. on Saturday. Mr.

Speaker, I would like to point out that without the excellent inter agency co-operation and hard work of emergency services, par ticularly volunteer firefighters from over 30 community fire departments, the consequences of this event could have been much worse.

With the assistance of provincial water bombers, these volunteers worked long hours on the ground to fight this massive fire, and all Manitobans should be proud of this outstanding example of firefighting. * (13:35) Our Firdale team is truly a group effort between the three levels of government and has included the Manitoba Emergency Measures Organization, the Office of the Fire Commis sioner, provincial deparments of Transportation and Government Services, Conservation, Health, Agriculture and Food, Family Services and Housing, Communications Services Manitoba, as well as the Canadian Armed Forces, Environ ment Canada, the Transportation Safety Board, CN Rail, elected officials from the R.M.s of Norfolk and North Cypress, Brandon Airport, the management and staff of J .J. 's restaurant near Austin, volunteers from Amateur Radio Emer gency Service, the RCMP.

I would like to note the firefighters from the municipal departments in Austin, Carberry, MacGregor, Gladstone, Portage Ia Prairie, Neepawa, Selkirk, Morden, Rosenort, Altona, Rivers, Belmont, Carman, Morris, Elm Creek, Macdonald, Miami, Swan Lake, Letellier, McCreary, Melita, Dauphin, Teulon, St. Francais-Xavier, Manitou, Cartier, St. Andrews, Ste. Rose, Winnipeg, and fire fighters even from our neighJ?ouring province, in Saskatoon, along with firefighters from Manitoba Hydro.

I should also point out that these firefighters also assisted farmers by safely escorting them to attend livestock during the evacuation. Mr. Speaker, I must note my personal admiration for the way in which our emergency services personnel, many of them volunteers,

1038 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May6, 2002 worked selflessly in their professional, safe, well-organized approach to this emergency response. This week, Canadians are observing Emergency Preparedness Week. Incidents like this are a stark reminder of how preparedness at work and at home is essential to a quick, safe and successful response, particularly when events cause sudden evacuations. I urge all Manitobans to take some time during this week to make their own personal preparedness plans.

I think I speak on behalf of all members of this Legislature in thanking our emergency response personnel from throughout the province for their ex cellent work this past week. Mr. Mervin Tweed (Turtle Mountain): I want to thank the minister for his statement to the House in regard to the situation, the accident that happened at Firdale. It is very good to know that in situations that arise by accident that people can respond in an orderly manner and in a fashion that the people of the communities are protected.

I think it is always true that when there is an accident we have concerns about the accident, but the bottom line is that no people were in jured and that people were seen to be taken care of. I think it is a very positive statement on our emergency services organi zations who co-ordinated. I have talked to people in the community, and the compliments have been outstanding in the sense of the people' s feeling of the preparedness and the willingness to work with the communities to make a safe departure from the communities that were in danger.

Again, I compliment the minister on naming some of the organizations involved. It is a huge group of people to co-ordinate. It is a group of people that not necessarily come to the situation knowing what they are facing but are brought up to speed very quickly and given their instruc tions. For them to follow it through in a co ordinated fashion is very important to the safety of all people. I do want to congratulate the attending fire fighters and just mention that many of them are volunteers. Many of them leave what they are doing at that specific time of day to attend to the needs of others.

I think that is important that we never quit or we never deny people in communities to volunteer, be it in emergency services such as this or in ambulance services or in other services that we know volunteers are such a huge part of making it work in the communities they serve. We, too, would like to thank the people for their co-operation and their understanding and for their concern of their neighbours. I think it is important that we all stand together and con gratulate the people of Firdale and the people of Manitoba that lent their help and support during this tragic time. Hon.

Jon Gerrard (River Heights): I ask leave to speak on the minister ' s statement. * (13:40) Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable member have leave? [Agreed] Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, I would like to pay tribute to the fine work of all those who were involved in the major emergency this last week. It is a tribute to the capacity and the abilities of those involved in the emergency response programs in Manitoba that there was an effort which was mobilized to the ex tent that it was and that it was successful.

I would like, as well, to ex press concern for those who live in the area that was affected and hope that, in spite of the disruption, there will not be serious long-term problems and they will be able to carry on their lives recognizing that this serious emergency occurre d, but that it passed without loss of life and without some of the damage that might have occurred. Thank you. National Nursing Week Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, I have a ministerial statement. Today is the beginning of National Nursing Week. The theme this year is: Nurses-always there for you: caring for families. Mr.

Speaker, in hospitals, clinics, personal care homes and community outreach

May 6, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 10 39 organizations, in the homes of Manitobans, there are nurses working right now providing high quality care for individuals and families. Twenty - four hours a day, seven days a week, nurses are caring for the sick and in jured, helping families stay well and working with seniors to encourage healthy, active living. The dedication, compassion and the skills and ex perience of nurses play a critical role in delivering the best possible health care to Manitobans.

I call on members of this House to join with me and acknowledge and applaud the enorm ous contributions nurses make toward our well-being, particularly to families. I am delighted, Mr. Speaker, that our Government has reached out to nurses and works with them to make much needed improvements in recruiting and retaining people in this vital profession. There are 1497 students in the Bachelor of Nursing today. That is an increase of 587 over the enrolment rate in 19 99 -2000 . This year over 30 0 students are ex pected to graduate and take on challenging and rewarding careers in nursing in Manitoba.

There have been close to 200 graduates in the licensed practical nursing program, with 235 in training now in Winnipeg, Brandon, Beausejour, Pinawa and Russell. This year the program is also available through Dauphin and St. Malo through special funding and co-operation between my colleague in Advanced Education, the federal government, the West Region Tribal Council and the south east Manitoba Metis Federation. There are 13 3 students enrolled in the Bachelor of Science in psychiatric nursing. A new 25-month diploma program at Red River College is ex pected to graduate 90 nurses this year.

There are 190 students currently enrolled. To date, 260 nurses have enrolled in refresher courses to return to the profession of nursing. Mr. Speaker, a new contract reached with the Manitoba Nurses' Un ion just over a month ago recognizes the importance of nurses in a dynamic, effective and sustainable health care system. The negotiations were challenging and intense. We never lost sight of the fact that we value nurses and that a fair and affordable deal was possible.

I was very pleased the negotiators from the Manitoba Nurses' Un ion and the employers of regional health authorities worked hard to re ach a deal that has been accepted by Manitoba nurses. A competitive wage is another component of our effort to increase the supply of nurses in Manitoba and begin to address the pressure and demands nurses face today. We are continuing to work to implement the recommendations of the Worklife Task Force, a report we commissioned in recognition of the fact that dollars were only part of the answer in meeting the needs of nurses. The Manitoba nurses' advisory council is in place.

This council has repre sentation from employers, MNU , regulators, educators and others who can add to the work of the council. We are also working with the RHAs and the union to look at the ratio of part-time and full-time nursing positions. We proclaimed legislation that established the College of Registered Nurses and similar bodies for licensed practical nurses and psychiatric nurses. This recognizes the professional standing of nurses and an ever-growing le vel of ex pertise and education.

We have paved the way for nurses to join the boards of regional health authorities to add their ex perience and wisdom to the decisions these boards make about health care delivery. * (1 3:45 ) Mr. Speaker, attentive members of this House will note that we have acted on and continue to make achievements based on the five-point plan fo r nursing. We have demon strated our commitment to nurses by taking decisive and effective action in consultation with nurses. We value their ro le in many settings where their skills are needed.

When nurses work with families the y take on the role of health educator, care provider, advocate, counsellor and consultant, just to name a few tasks. I think it is a wonder ful theme for this year' s week and illustrates the range of work the nurses undertake on our behalf every day. Mr. Speaker, I congratulate all Manitoba nurses and applaud their dedication and com mitme nt. I further pledge the continued support of our Government in ensuring the needs of this vital profession are met.

1040 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May6, 2002 Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): I am pleased to rise today to recognize nursing week and the valuable work of nurses in caring for our patients and their families. As a former nurse, Mr. Speaker, I now have an incredible oppor tunity to incorporate everything I learned as a nurse into what I do on a regular basis at the political level. I cannot even begin to tell you how valuable that nursing background is in in fluencing the decisions and discussions that we have within our caucus.

Nobody has to convince me about the immeasurable value of nurses' work and the knowledge and skills it takes to be a nurse. I know; I have been there. Being a nurse has never been an obstacle. It has always been a door-opener. It has influenced everything I have done. I never, in my wildest dreams, would have ever thought that little 6-year-old girl from Benito, Manitoba who decided then to be a nurse would one day be in the position I am in today. Can one person really make a difference? The answer is absolutely yes. As nurses, we must appreciate our own power and take responsibility for shaping the future.

We can do this by appreciating the intellectual nature of nursing, the rich heritage of nursing and the knowledge of nursing. We also do this by feeling the ex perience and impact of nursing and appreciating the emotional nature of the work. Some nurses, Mr. Speaker, will make a huge impact on the nursing scene, but most nurses will do little things day by day that will create a desired future for the profession.

Little things with a patient, with a family, in a moment of time will make a contribution equal to anything done on a grander scale, like holding a dying patient or a crying child, like comforting a family who has been trying to cope with bad news, or being with a family during the birth of a child. To nurses, I say thank you for all your caring and for making a difference to patients and their families. Your work is very valued. During the financial challenges and the reform s of the '9 0s, it was the nurses who were the glue that held it all together. To the Minister of Health (Mr.

Chomiak), I say: Where is your promise to fix the nursing shortage? In fact, that nursing shortage has doubled from 70 0 to over 15 00. Where is the promise to make things better for nurses? In fact, we hear that the overtime for nurses has quadrupled in the past couple of years. Where is the minister ' s commitment to improve on more full-time nurses in Manitoba? A big promise in the election, yet the Manitoba Nurses' Un ion have told us that the percentage of full-time nurses in Manitoba has actually decreased under the reign of this Government.

This minister used the nursing W orklife Task Force as a PR ex ercise, according to the Manitoba Nurses' Un ion. They promised the nurses the moon, and now they are dragging their heels on it. During the election, they promised nurses in schools. Where are the nurses in schools? That was an election promise. This minister dragged out the proclamation of the nursing acts. Despite all the rhetoric he put on the record in opposition, he dragged it out and he manipulated the process for his own purposes. Mr. Speaker, nurses deserve better than what they are getting from this Government.

Despite the fact that in the proclamation the Minister of Health is only recognizing the celebrations that are happening with the registered nurses, I would also like to commend all of the licensed practical nurses, the registered psychiatric nurses and all of the nursing assistants, because certainly in the whole realm of nursing they are all to be recognized. Mr. Speaker: Order. Have you concluded your comments, the honourable Member for Charles wood?

I just want to remind the honourable member that Beauchesne Citation 351 indicates the Speaker limit the Opposition reply to a period not to ex ceed the time taken by the minister. I note the honourable member ' s com ments are now considerably longer than those of the minister, and I would ask the honourable member to please conclude your comments. Mrs. Driedger: Mr. Speaker, just to conclude, I recognize nurses in Manitoba. We value their work, we respect what they do and we appreciate an opportunity to recognize nurses in Manitoba this week.

May6, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1041 Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): I ask for leave to speak to the minister's statement. Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable member have leave? [Agreed) * (1 3: 50) Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, I would like to extend best wishes to the nurses of Manitoba on this nursing week. I think that it is quite clear that we owe a considerable debt to nurses throughout this province who day in and day out perform an extraordinary service to citizens of Manitoba in improving health care.

I think it is important to acknowledge not just the nurses who are involved in direct care but the increasing role of nurses in making major decisions as leaders in the health care system in this province. I think it is important, as well, that all of us dedicate ourselves to improving the working environment of those who are on the front lines in the nursing profession, those who are providing the hands on care, because improving that environment will pay off a long way in better care and in better health for the citizens of this province.

I think it is important to recognize not only the treatment and the care but also the preventive efforts of nurses as we strive to improve the overall health care system in this province. TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I am pleased to table the following reports, copies of which have been distributed previously: MPIC' s Quarterly Financial Report, Nine Months ended November 30 , 200I , distributed in January; The Fatality In quiries Act,

section 43 (1 ) report for the year 200I , from the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner, also distributed in January. I am also pleased to table The Discriminatory Business Practices Act report. Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us from Sisler High 20 Grade II students under the direction of Mr. Chris Band field. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Member for Burrows (Mr. Martindale) .

I would also like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us today representatives from the College of Registered Nurses. On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here today. ORAL QUESTION PERIOD Budget Manitoba Hydro Profits Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): Mr. Speaker, since this Government came to office some two and a half years ago, Government revenues have increased by almost a billion dollars. Ye t this Government still had to raid $288 million from Manitoba Hyd ro to pay for a spending problem that they refuse to admit that they have.

Will the Premier (Mr. Doer) admit to Manitobans today that he was unable to balance this year's Budget, not because of a revenue problem but because of a very serious spending problem? * (1 3: 55 ) Mr. Speaker: Order. Befo re I recognize the honourable Minister of Finance, I would just like to inform the guests in the public galleri es that there is to be no participation by the guests, whether it is applauding. I ask the co-operation of all of our guests in the galleries, please. Hon.

Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Since we have come to office we have offered about $500 million of investments in key programs such as health and education. We have reduced our debt by $285 million. We have had tax reductions in the order of about $245 mill ion. When you put that together you can see we have had a very balanced approach every year. Mrs. Stefanson: Mr. Speaker, will the Minister of Finance just admit that he had to take $288 million out of the pockets of the ratepayers of

1042 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2002 Manitoba Hydro in order to feed his incessant and, indeed, this Government 's incessant spend ing addiction? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, our cost per capita for public services is the third lowest in the country, strong evidence that there is moderate spending focussed on key priorities in this province. Mrs. Stefanson: Mr.

Speaker, how can hardworking Manitobans, who make difficult decisions each and every day of their lives in order to balance their own books at home, have the confidence in this Government when this Government chooses to set an ex ample by telling Manitobans that it is okay to spend more, spend beyond their financial means? Mr. Selinger: One of the important facts that emerged in this year's Budget was that Manitobans are among few jurisdictions in the country where Manitobans have had an increase in disposable income. This was reported to us by the Toronto- Dominion bank.

To have an increase in disposable income and consistent year-over-year tax reductions plus a cost of-living advantage, Mr. Speaker, means that Manitoba remains one of the best places in the country to live. Stonewall Hospital Emergency Services Mr. Harry Enns (Lakeside): Mr. Speaker, have a question for the Minister of Health. I ask it on behalf of my many constituents in the community of Stonewall and surrounding communities of Argyle, Balmoral, Woodlands, Warren, Rosser, Stony Mountain, who genuinely are confused.

It seems like only a few years ago that I had the privilege of cutting the ribbon on a spanking new $24-million hospital, and today, as of this weekend, they are without emergency care services. [interjection] Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): I thank the member for that question. I want to reassure the residents of Stonewall and surrounding district and region, Mr.

Speaker, that the temporary closure of the ER is in relation to a dispute between the doctors and the regional health authority, and I am very con fident that will be resolved as soon as possible and desire, in fact, for it to be resolved as soon as possible. Mr. Enns: Mr. Speaker, I want to be generous with the honourable Minister of Health. He does recognize that it is not always just a case of throwing more money at the health care prob lem. In this instance we probably have a labour problem, but I am asking him to resolve it on behalf of my constituents. Mr. Chomiak: Mr.

Speaker, an agreement was put in place between the regional health authority and the doctors in 19 98 with respect to providing on-call service, off-site on-call service with respect to that ER. I had been advised by the RHA that there was an agreement that we thought we had reached with the doctors but were unable to do it, but negotiations are going to continue. I want to give assurances to people in the district and area that we are working as diligently as possible to ensure the temporary closure of the ER will soon cease. * (14:00 ) Health Care System Accessibility Mrs.

Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): The Doer government has added 650 million more dollars to health care in just two years. Despite . that, the Minister of Health continues to close hospitals and emergency rooms: Emerson, Stonewall, Gladstone, and people are being denied access to care. Can this minister ex plain how it is that he can pour millions more into health care and still deny people access to care? Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): The Member for Charleswood is wrong again, Mr. Speaker. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Chomiak: Mr.

Speaker, over the roar from members opposite I heard about Gladstone,

May 6, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1043 which the ER was closed under the members opposites watch. Secondly, I also heard the comment of Emerson, which for 11 years went to members opposite and asked and only in the year, an election year, did members, without money in the budget, talk about building a new facility in Emerson, and the largest hospital in the history of Manitoba was closed by members opposite. Point of Order Mr.

Jack Penner (Emerson): The minister knows very well that if he looked at the budget of the Department of Health, the Emerson hospital was slated for building when they took office and it was contained in the Budget. There was $4.8 million contained in the Budget for capital construction. Mr. Speaker, I think it is time the Minister of Health becomes more honest with the people of Manitoba. Mr. Speaker: The honourable Minister of Health, on the same point of order. Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, I suggest that the member does not have a point of order. It is not a dispute over the facts.

In fact, if one looks at the facts, money was not allocated in the Budget for '9 8- 99 and the following year with respect to capital projects that we had to find to redo the capital projects when we came to government. Mr. Speaker: On the point of order raised by the honourable Member for Emerson, he does not have a point of order. It is a dispute over the facts. *** Mr. Chomiak: To complete my response, Mr.

Speaker, 14 00 acute care beds were closed by members opposite during their watch, and the largest hospital in the history of the province of Manitoba was closed, that is Misericordia Hospital, by members opposite. The closures that I could hear the member talking about are either temporary closures or closures that were done previously with respect to those hospitals. That is all I could hear above the din and the roar from members opposite. Mrs.

Driedger: Can the Minister of Health ex plain why people in Manitoba are being denied access to care when 84 percent of Manitobans have told him that access to care should be based on need, and yet we see headlines like: Woman angry after dad waits 56 hours for surgery; waiting for surgery to remove tumour from son' s leg a nightmare. That is an April 2002 headline. Where is the access to care? Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, I was very pleased that 84 percent of Manitobans said that they believed the medicare system should be based on need.

I think the fact that in that poll 61 percent of Manitobans said we are on the right track speaks volumes. Mrs. Driedger: Can the minister explain why his health care poll news release last week omitted any mention that 50 percent of Manitobans said and I quote: We are not getting good value for the amount of money we are spending on health care now? The minister is spending more and getting less. I would suggest it is time he put a plan in place for bettering health care in Manitoba and improving access to care. Mr. Chomiak: Mr.

Speaker, both the health care consultations we undertook, something that did not happen over 11 years of the Conservative government, and the results, I think, are indicative, with 61 percent of Manitobans saying we are on the ri ght track. I will not take any lessons from members opposite when the member from River East puts out a poll on health care that says: If you stro ngly disagree, it is one on the scal e; if you strongly disagree, it is five on ·the scale, on the same questions. Do you strongly disagree, one; strongly disagree, five.

They cannot even put out a poll on health care that asks people what the range of interest is. So comments from members opposite, I take with a boulder of salt. Youth Criminal Justice Act Opt-Out Clause Mrs. Joy Smith (Fort Garry): Mr. Speaker, we- Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

1044 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May6, 2002 Mr. Speaker: Order. I am sure we all want to hear the question from the honourable Member for Fort Garry . Mrs. Smith: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We on this side of the House agree and commend the Attorney General for his condemnation of the Youth Criminal Justice Act passed by the federal government on February 19 , 2002. Clearly, this bill does not address increasing violence and sends no deterrents to young offenders and, in fact, has softened the penalties for a violent crime. This Attorney General has the right to refuse to pay to implement this act.

Is the Attorney General prepared to lead the way here in Manitoba, and is he planning to opt Manitoba out of the prosecution of this law here in this province? Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Speaker, I certainly am pleased to hear the question, because it is a matter that is very important, I think, to Canadians and to Manitobans. I guess I do have one regret, and that is that I did not hear from members opposite as we were trying to lead a campaign to have that legislation go back to the House of Commons because, quite frankly, in our view, it is a rat's nest. I look at

section 42 in this new act: 17 subsections, 38 sub-subsections. It refers to 89 other provisions of legislation, it goes on for 9 pages. It is just indicative, Mr. Speaker, of a piece of legislation that, at a time when we should be streamlining the youth justice system, it makes it more difficult. But as well,- I think Canadians also want a law in place to deal with young offenders, and we are committed to that. Mrs. Smith: Mr. Speaker, this Attorney General has the right to opt out of the prosecution of this law here in Manitoba. Un der the federal provincial agreement for the YCGA, there is an opt-out clause.

Can this Attorney General assure Manitobans that he will opt out of that part of it? Mr. Mackintosh: Well, Mr. Speaker, the law as to whether the Youth Criminal Justice Act is constitutional in this country, which of course is the supreme law of the country, is being looked at by courts in Que bec and as a result of actions taken by the Que bec government. But, Mr. Speaker, when the Young Offenders Act is repealed, it is important that Manitoba have other legislation to take its place. We believe not only in strong law and good law, but we believe in law. Mrs. Smith: Clearly, Mr.

Speaker, the Attorney General does not understand the question. The law is the law. Is the Attorney General prepared to opt out of the prosecution of this law here in the province of Manitoba? Mr. Mackintosh: Mr. Speaker, like the other jurisdictions of Canada, we are required to enforce the law of this country, a law which unfortunately should have been put together in partnership with the provinces who administer the law.

But the law is a federal one, and under our arrangements in this country it is important that when dealing with youth there be a law, and we will enforce it to the best of our ability. * (14:1 0) . Fishing Industry Commercial Gill Nets Mr. Harry Enos (Lakeside): Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Tourism (Mr. Lemieu x). I want to thank him for sending me and many other Manitobans and visitors an ex cellent fishing and hunting guide that his department sends out. There is a fine picture of the minister, a smiling picture of the minister. Actually, he is a pretty good- looking guy.

But I want to quote from the minister, and he does another nice thing. Thanks to anglers' voluntary support, the big stringer fish has been replaced by selective harvesting for that special shore lunch or a few to take home. The pictures of holding trophies back at the dock are now taken from a boat where the release of the fish occurs. An glers are investing in the future with every big one they put back. My question to the minister is: Does he consider the use of commercial gill nets in these lakes as selective harvesting?

May 6, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1045 Hon. Ron Lemieux (Mini ster of Culture, Heritage and Tourism): Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for the question, and thank you very much for the compliment. I am really pleased. Mr. Speaker, with regard to fishing in this province and with regard to ecotourism in general and what we are trying to do with regard to ecotourism in the province, fishing has always been an important tourism draw for Manitoba and will continue to do so. Mr. Eons: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question. The question was really quite plain.

Does he consider the use of commercial gill nets as selective harvesting? I want to thank the minister, Manitobans spend a lot of money in stocking lakes throughout Manitoba for the successful fisheries. Will the use of commercial gill nets in these lakes sustain the kind of fishing that he is talking about and brags about in this guide? Mr. Lemieux: Mr.

Speaker, in our approach with regard to tourism, as in our approach in many, many different areas, there is truly a balance between the fishing and the hunting that takes place in this province compared to all those individuals who want to go throughout the province and canoe and paddle and kayak and view birds and also take

part in the beautiful wilderness that we have here in this province. We do have many, many visitors coming to the province, anglers who wish to come here because of those bene fits but also wanting to come here for the ecotourism side of the ex peri ence, coming to Manitoba. Winnipeg Casino Occupancy Permit-Min ister's Comments Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister responsible for Manitoba Lotteries.

The record- which I table some documents shows that the Manitoba Lotteries Commission has a history of poor business practices and did not have valid building occupancy permits for the McPhillips Street Station or Club Regent for 84 percent of the days since the NDP has been in government. Clearly, it was a mistake for the minister to imply that a secre tari al error can ex plain the continuing problem, and the minister must realize that her answer last Thursday, that this was a clerical error, was totally without any credibility at all.

I ask the minister today to acknowledge her error and to apologize to this Legislature. Hon. Diane McGifford (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Act): Mr. Speaker, last week this member, on quite insubstantial and flimsy evidence, and he is doing the same thing again today, suggested that our provincial casinos were about to fall down. Then, on equally flimsy evidence last week, he suggested that the casinos were health hazards, alluding to a letter that he claimed that I had received in my office, which was delivered 10 minutes after the start of Question Period.

So, Mr. Speaker, I do not know what is motivating this member. I do not know whether it is his sel f-proclaimed thirst for justice, his nonpolitical thirst for justice that he talks about or if it is just a desperate wish to get his name in the newspaper, but I would advise him to be more careful about the kind of information he puts on the record. I answered this question last week. I may as well table right here a document that points out that our casinos are in total compliance with the health and safety obliga tions of the City. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, my supplementary is to the minister.

I asked the minister: Was it a clerical error when there was no building occupancy permit in October 19 99 , in November 19 99 , in December 19 99 , in January 2000, in April 2000, in May 2000, in June 2000, in July 2000, in August 2000, in September 2000? Was it a clerical err or every time that Manitoba Lotteries did not get an occupancy permit? Ms. McGifford: I could quote from the document that I just tabled, which points out that the City of Winnipeg has at all times since the opening of the two casinos been satisfied that the

104 6 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2002 casinos complied with health and safety requirements and have met all applicable building codes and bylaws. It has made the material inspections. There is no outstanding work required. It is for this reason the City allows the continued operation of the casinos. It recogntzes that the mechanical certification is being withheld for reasons of leverage related to the litigation over a fee dispute which is between two companies. Manitoba Lotteries Corporation has nothing to do with it. Mr.

Gerrard: I ask the minister to admit that it is illegal to have a building occupied and in use without a building occupancy permit. I ask the minister to admit that it is inappropriate to pass the problem off on an innocent secretary and to acknowledge to this House that her answers, like �he casinos that she is regulating and responsible for, are full of smoke and mirrors and need a lot of improvement. Ms. McGifford: I never mentioned anything about a secretary. It was a mistake committed by a company, a clerical error on the part of the company. I certainly did not mention anything about a secretary.

I really do seek accuracy from this member, Mr. Speaker. Furthermore, as our Premier (Mr. Doer) obser.ved last week, anyone who has left the mess that he left at Pinawa should not be talking to me about anything to do with health and safety. Child Care Centre (Brandon) Opening Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin-Roblin): My question is for the Minister of Family Services. We all _know that high quality care is important in the development of healthy chil dren. Can the minister tell this House how the child care centre announced in Brandon will bene fit that community? Hon.

Tim Sale (Minister of Family Services and Housing): Mr. Speaker, the community of Brandon is a booming community that has seen a great development over the last several years. The citizens of Brandon need both housing and child care and its other support services. I know in my department when families who are on social assistance need to go back to work, one of the things they need most is secure day care, because if they do not get it they often lose their jobs when illness strikes their children. I am delighted that 48 new spaces will be built on Pacific A venue in Brandon.

Because it is a day care that is going to open about seven in the morning and stay open until eleven-thirty or so at night, it is going to serve many more than 48 children: 8 infant spaces, 40 preschool spaces. We are delighted that it will provide employment for some 25 or 30 people when the centre is in full operation, adding to the success of Brandon and Brandon ' s families. Fishing Industry Spawn Fishing Mr. Glen Cummings (Ste. Rose): Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Tourism (Mr. Lemieu

x) proudly proclaims that fishing is indeed a draw in this province. The other minister, who is equally and frankly more so responsible for sport fishing in this province is the Minister of Conservation. I would like to know: After allowing Lake Dauphin and Lake of the Prairies to be decimated in ex cess of 150 percent of their sustainable yield of fish, what is he doing in terms of enforcing agreement to stop spawn fishing? * (14: 20) Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Conser vation): I thank the member for the question.

I would also like to advise him that we on this side of the House share his concern about the sustainability of fishing in Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, over the past several months I have been engaged in meetings with the West Region Tribal Council's individual bands around the Lake Dauphin area, the sport fishing groups. I feel that we have made tremendous progress. We have monitored the situation and we have set in motion a legally mandated consultation pro cess with the First Nations people in that area in order for us to institute a conservation closure. That closure was instituted on March 1-

May6, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 10 47 Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Cummings: Mr. Speaker, on a new question. Mr. Speaker: The honourable Member for Ste. Rose, on a new question. Mr. Cummings: The minister points to an agreement that he released in a press release on March 1, saying that there would be a closure of fishing from today until regular opening of the angling season to protect spawning stocks. What is he doing to enforce that agreement? Mr. Lathlin: Mr. Speaker, we have since this issue started up laid charges, various charges.

I believe six charges have been laid so far with respect to the Dauphin Lake f ishery. I might add, Mr. Speaker, this is a similar approach that was taken by the previous govern ment who instituted a conservation closure in 1999 on a few selected tributaries to Lake Dauphin. Even though the activity of the First Nations fishermen at that time was far greater than this year, no charges were laid. I think an appropriate course of action that was followed by that. government was warnings were issued. In our case, in this closure, in fact, charges have been laid. Mr. Glen Cummings: Mr. Speaker, on a new question.

Mr. Speaker: The honourable Member for Ste. Rose, on a new question. Mr. Cummings: This minister did not continue or enforce the closure that was in place. He has allowed the fish to be decimated to one and a half times their sustainable yield, and he is not protecting the fish from spawning, catching going on as we speak. Will he enforce his agreement? Mr. Lathlin : Mr. Speaker, I have just advised the member that a closure is in place right now. It will expire on May 11 , at which time the situation will be reviewed to see if any further action is needed.

By the way, May 11 marks the time that the spawning run is completed. During the closure, I have indicated to the member that charges had been laid so it is not as if, as he is trying to suggest, we have been doing nothing. In fact, we have been doing many things towards the resolution of this problem. Meetings have been held with the citizens of Dauphin, the sports angling people, as well as the First Nations people, the West Region Tribal Council. I might add in closing that in February sometime the West Region Tribal Council wrote a letter to the Leader of the Opposition (Mr.

Murray) inviting him to come to Dauphin and meet with the West Region Tribal Council. Mr. Cummings: Mr. Speaker, on a new question. Mr. Speaker: Order. The honourable Member for Ste. Rose, on a new question. Mr. Cummings: This minister indicates that he has involved the local sports fishery in his consultations. The fish enhancement organiza tions in both Dauphin and Swan River have been asking continually for a place at the table to have input into the consultations. He has ignored them. He has not invited them to the table. I am asking this minister: Will he change that position and invite them to the table?

Mr. Lathlin: Mr. Speaker, in fact, the last time I met with Mr. Ault, I think is the name of the person who is heading up the Dauphin group, I had a luncheon meeting with him in Dauphin. At that time I made a commitment that I would look at ways of trying to initiate a process such as the member is suggesting. We are currently doing that. It is my hope that within a very short time we will establish a group such as we have done for the Lake of the Prairies fishing dispute. CN Train Derailment (Firdale) Ground Water Testing Mr. Mervin Tweed (Turtle Mountain): Mr.

Speaker, earlier today we acknowledged the services provided to the people of Firdale and area in regard to the fire explosion this weekend. My questions are for the Minister of Con servation. My first question is: Will he advise this House as to the extent of the ground water

10 48 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May6, 2002 testing that has been done, and what results have been found? Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Con servation): I believe the member is referring to the fire that happened at Firdale. The Minister of Government Services (Mr. Ashton) issued a ministerial statement earlier. There is a lot of information contained in that ministerial state ment, but I want to add for the member that our department will continue to monitor all the public health and environmental concerns.

The Department of Conservation is continuing to be involved in a site assessment, the site remedi ation, the surface and ground water evaluation, as well as the public and responder protection. As the Minister of Government Services indicated earlier, there is a team that is working to look after the post-fire situation and Con servation is part of that team. Mr. Tweed: I would ask that the minister just forward in writing the answer to that question. My second question is to the Premier (Mr. Doer) .

I am wondering if the Premier will confirm that the Province will be providing financial assistance to the area residents should they incur losses as a result of this derailment and fire, as promised by the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs (Mr. Smith). Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Trans portation and Government Services): I, of course, attended a meeting with the affected residents on Saturday.

I can indicate CN Rail indicated at that time they would be providing, in fact, the kind of assistance to which the member is referring and, in fact, asked the two R.M. s to act as clearing points for this kind of assistance. It is certainly appreciated to see CN living up to its corporate responsibility, notwith standing as we see develop the actual cause of the accident. Mr. Speaker, the indication given at that meeting by the senior official from CN is that they would cover the kinds of expenses the member is referring to, and I think that is a very good move on CN's part. Mr.

Tweed: I thank the minister for his answer. I would ask: Will the minister agree to meet with the community once all testing and analysis have been completed to advise the community as to the situation under the water contamination, air contamination, and any other incidents that may occur from this accident? Mr. Ashton: Mr. Speaker, in fact, my colleague the Minister of Consumer Affairs (Mr. Smith) was there on site Friday. I was there Saturday. I have met with the community already, but we certainly will be in close contact with the R.M. s in the area.

I want to indicate, notwithstanding that the fire itself is under control, every effort is being made to assure people that they are going to be safe in their homes. There have been a number of tests already conducted, I know, that have showed no difficulty in terms of the homes that are there, but we are not taking any chances. In fact, there still is an exclusion area right around the site where there were negligible readings of some of the chemicals that were in place, but we will be following up. * (14:3 0) I am certainly more than willing to meet with the R.

M.s and, in fact, at the meeting I indicated to the members of the public that were there that, if they had any particular concerns, certainly, they could contact me directly. That kind of direct approach is what we expect here in the province of Manitoba. Livestock Industry Disease-Free Status Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson): Mr. Speaker, the province of Manitoba has enjoyed for many years a disease-free status from tuberculosis. We have seen in the last year and a half a very significant number of indications that there is tuberculosis present in the Riding Mountain National Park.

A white-tailed deer was found with tuberculosis not too long ago. I would like to ask the minister of resources: Has he done an economic impact study, and what the impact to our livestock industry would

May6, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 10 49 be if the province of Manitoba should lose its disease-free status? Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Conservation): Mr. Speaker, I can advise the member that Conservation has worked in a co operative way with the Minister of Agriculture and Food (Ms. Wowchuk) and the federal agency that is responsible for disease control. We will continue to be playing an active role in that group, with a view to finding answers to some of the problems that are being raised not only by the member across the way but by the public in that area. Mr. Penner: Mr.

Speaker, as we all know, this could cause a huge economic impact to the province of Manitoba if we would lose this disease-free status. Could the minister tell this province what action he is contemplating to take, in light of the fact that the federal govemment is not acting on this, it is not taking any responsibility for it? Will the minister tell this province and the livestock producers in this province what action this province will take to ensure that we maintain our disease-free status? Mr. Lathlin: Mr.

Speaker, I can advise the member that Conservation is reviewing the regulations currently with a view to coming up with regulations that enforcement will be more effective, will have more strength. So that is what we are doing right now to try to alleviate the elk from coming onto farmers' fields. We are also, of course, asking the assistance of the farmers in that area with respect to putting hay bales too close to the boundary of the park, which is where the elk are residing right now.

So we are doing everything on our part to try to address the issue, but it often requires working with other agencies and that is what we are doing right now. Mr. Speaker: The honourable Member for Emerson, on a new question. Mr. Penner: Action has been taken every time we have seen a TB outbreak in our domestic herd. The elimination or the eradication of the disease has been important to the farm com munity, to the economy of this province, to the extent that we eliminate the herds that are infected by the disease.

What action is this minister contemplating on taking to ensure that Ottawa exercises its responsibility in eliminating this disease? If they do not, will he take action to ensure the security of our domestic livestock herd in this province of Manitoba? Mr. Lathlin: Mr.

Speaker, I can also advise the member that the other activity we are involved in currently is to change the hunting regulations in order that we might increase the take of elk to reduce the population; that and several other initiatives that we are undertaking right now, working co-operatively with the federal govem ment, the Department of Agriculture. We are working very hard to ensure that the resolution of this issue is finally arrived at. Fishing Industry Regulations-Consultations Mr. Glen Cummings (Ste. Rose): Mr.

Speaker, the Minister of Conservation indicates that he wants to involve the sport fishing community. In order to have some assurance in the sport fishing community, there are two groups out there. In fact, there are three groups in this province that voluntarily raise about $100,0 00 annually to improve spawning, to improve the habitat for the fish, and they self-regulate themselves in order to try and save the large spawning fish for future generations. Will this minister today guarantee that the sport fishing enhancement groups will have a place at the table for discussions on future regulations? Hon.

Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Conservation): Mr. Speaker, as I indicated to the member earlier, we have begun a process at Lake of the Prairies. We have had several meetings with those groups there, and we are, right now, working to establish a similar process for the Lake Dauphin fishery. Before we can do that, I am required to go and meet with the West Region Tribal Council-{ interjection] Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Lathlin: -because, Mr. Speaker, in order for the public to support a process that is being contemplated by govemment, it is important for a govemment to consult with all the stakeholders

1050 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2002 and to make sure to try to get all the stakeholders on board in order that they can have a sense of ownership as to what develops from that process. Mr. Speaker: The time for Oral Questions has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Red Man's Vision: Turtle Lodge Fundra iser Mr. Conrad Santos (Wellington) : Mr. Speaker, I wish to make a member's statement on behalf of the First Nations people. On May 2, this Member for Wellington was privi leged to join 250 other people at an event called Red Man's Vision: Turtle Lodge Fundraiser.

This event was in support of a project of a visio nary leader, Dave Courchene, Jr., and his dream of building a sacred gathering place at the Sagkeeng First Nation of a lodge in the centre with four turtle lodges shaped in each of the four dir ections. The honourable Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs (Mr. Robinson) was the emcee at this event. He magnificently performed his task well with other magnificent vocal and musical performances, including drumming by the Red Shadow Juniors ; music by Jason and Jesse Tuesday; Troy Westwood; Percy Tuesday; Ray St.

Germaine; Jess Lee and· Norbert Ducharme; and, of course, the comedian Don Bumstick. A host of other prominent Aboriginal leaders and supporters attended this very enjoyable event. We congratulate Lisa Meeches and other organizers of this affair. The realization of their vision had already started when young people had volunteered and they already cut the logs necessary for the beginning of the project. T�ere are many other people from across the provmce and elsewhere who had volunteered to assist the construction of this dream. We look forward to the progress of this project in the months and years ahead.

Thank you. Occupational Safety and Health Week Mr. Ron Schuler (Springfield): Mr. Speaker, May 5 to 11 is North American Occupational Safety and Health Week, and I am terribly disappointed that again the Minister of Labour and Immigration (Ms. Barrett) has neglected her duties and has not risen and made a ministerial statement on this. She has time for lengthy press conferences on more consultations but does not have the time to get up and make a statement on this.

This marks the sixth year that Occupational Safety and Health Week is being recognized on a North American basis by Canada, the United States and Mexico. I think this is a testament to the tremendous success of the NAFT A agreement and the positive influence free trade has had across North America.

I am very glad to see that the members across the way have fully embraced free trade and the importance of our close relationship with our main trading partners. * (14: 40) The objectives of the North American Occupational Safety and Health Week are threefold: Fir st, to increase employees, employ ers and the public's awareness of the benefits of investing in occupational saf ety and health; second, to raise awareness of the role and contribution of safety and health professional s; third, to reduce workplace injuries and illnesses by encouraging new safety and health-r�l�ted activities.

You would have thought the mmtster would have gotten up and heralded that. As the minister pointed out, this year's theme is: Prevention is the cure. Education and awareness of occupational safety and health issues for both employees and employers is crucially important in the prevention of wor� place injuries. A good safety and health record m the workplace means good business. By working together, we can increase awareness, encourage healthy working conditions and healthy em ployee activi ties, and reduce the financial costs of unsafe work environments. These are all, Mr.

Speaker, some of the things that we stand for on this side of the House, and we are pleased to stand up and once again bring forward North American Occupa tional Safety and Health Week, May 5 to 11. Canadian National Marsville Mr. Cris Aglugub (The Maples): Mr. Speaker, I rise today to inform the Legislative Assembly

May6, 200 2 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MAN ITOBA 10 51 about a truly fascinating event that I had the opportunity of attending in my constituency. On the 27th of April, Maples Collegiate space exploration academy students hosted 500 Grade 6 students from 15 Winnipeg elementar y schools for the lO th annual Canadian National Marsville program Link- U p Day. I would like to thank Je ff Cieszecki, Marsville regional co ordinator, a science and astronomy teacher, for all his work on this project.

The Canadian Marsville program is an Internet-based simulation of the colonization of the planet Mars, developed by Grade 6 students fro m across the nation. The students in Winnipeg joined thousands of others from across Canada on the Internet to complete this science and technology project. It took three months of hard work on the part of both the students and teachers to get this event off the ground, so to speak. The habitat on Mars constructed by students required life-support systems that t� ey had designed themselves, Mr. Speaker.

It mv olved creating a society and environment from scratch, which gave students an opport unity to ma ke important decisions. The purpose of this program is to enhance the relationship young Canadians have with teclul ology and foster their interest in science and math . It teaches young people to play a role in the shaping of their civilization and to decide what sort of society they want to live in. Marsville is a wonderful teaching tool and offers children a chance to parti cipate in building a society, something they do not otherwise have in Grade 6.

It also provides them with contact with other students in Canada and establishes a positive relationship with technology that has become so prevalent in our lives. Stonewall Hospital-Emergency Services Mr. Harry Enns (Lakeside): Mr. Speaker, I have never presented myself in this Chamber as an expert in health matters. My modest cattle experience in the Interlake do es not make that possible. We have more capable people on our side to do that. I am delighted to see the First Minister (Mr. Doer) and the Ministe r of Health (Mr. Chomiak) present.

I want to expr� ss my frustration, the frustration of my consti tuents, and what I suspect is also their frustration, because the good people of Stonewall and surro unding district should not be having a health care problem. I watched them with pride as they, for the better part of a decade beginning in the late '8 0s, raised their monies for some additional funding for the hospital. It was a good environment of community volunteer workers hosting a host of fundraising dinners throughout the better part of a decade.

Then, in the late or the mid - '90s , it fin ally came to fruition with a brand-new, state-of- the- art medical facility I believe costing in the range of $23 millio n to $24 million. When I went to the polls in 1999 , I felt kind of assured that one of the last problems that I would be having in the great constituency of Lakeside was a health care problem. But that was not the case, Mr. Speaker. It is not just tod ay' s issue. The issue is that the system is not working, not living up to expectations, not delivering th e health care services that people want.

It is not for bricks and mortar, it is not just for want of money , because in this instance certainly the money was there. Ce rtainly the people are there. But somehow the organization is falling down. Right now it is inconceivable that this progres sive community should be without emergency services. Mr. Speaker, that is my complaint to the system, my complaint to the Governn 1e nt. We had better fix it, because the people of Manitoba expect nothing less. St. Vital Youth Parent Centre Ms.

Linda Asper (Riel): I rise to congratulate the many people who have worked over the years to put in place the necessary government and community support to launch the Youth Parent Ce ntre located at Lavallee School, 505 St. Anne's Road. Mr. Speaker, we gathered at the official opening on March 14, 2002, to celebrate

1052 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2002 this excellent example of the kind of community-supported and client-driven project that our Government is funding through its Healthy Child Initiative. The St. Vital Youth Parent Centre works with educators to help pregnant students with prenatal and postnatal medical support, counsel ling, ongoing parenting assistance, and social and economic supports to ensure they are able to continue with high school or train for employ ment. The centre also supplies subsidized day care spaces for four infants and eight preschoolers and is open year-ro und.

An estimated 85 percent of poverty is traceable to teenage pregnancy. Programs such as at this centre have proven eff ective in giving mothers the education and life skills · needed to make a better life for themselves and their children. Over two dozen parent-c hild centres in Manitoba provide similar support networks for young families. Thank you to Bonnie Ash, executive director, and her staff for their commitment to the Youth Parent Centre. Thank you to the St.

Vital School Board and educators, com munity representatives, and our adolescent parents for their co-operation and assistance in helping our Government to establish the St. Vital Youth Parent Centre. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, I would like to announce that the meeting of the Standing Committee on Law Amendments scheduled for 6:30 p.m., Tuesday, May 7, to consider Bills 3, 7 and 10, is being rescheduled.

Instead, the Law Amend ments Committee will meet at 6:30 p.m. on Wednesday, May 8, to deal with Bill 3, The Highway Traffic Amendment and

Summary Convictions Amendment Act; Bill 7, The Local Authorities Election Amendment Act; and Bill 10, The Environment Amendment Act. Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger), that the House resolve into a Committee of Supply. Mr. Speaker: It has been announced that the meeting of the Standing Committee on Law Amendments scheduled for 6:30 p.m. on Tuesday, May 7, 2002, to consider Bills 3, 7 and 10, is being rescheduled. Instead, the Law Amendments Committee will meet at 6:30 p.m. on Wednesday, May 8, to deal with those same bills: Bill 3, The Highway Traffic Amendment and

Summary Convictions Amendments Act; Bill 7, The Local Authorities Election Amend ment Act; and Bill 10, The Environment Amendment Act. It has been moved by the honourable Government House Leader, seconded by the honourable Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger), that the House resolve into a Committee of Supply. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? {Agreed] * (15:00) COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) CONSERVATION Mr. Chairperson (Harry Schellenberg): Welcome back to Estimates. Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will be considering the Estimates of the Department of Conservation. Does the honourable Minister of Conservation (Mr. Lathlin) have an opening statement? Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Conservation): Yes, I have some opening remarks that I wanted to make before we get on with the main part. Of course, I am pleased again to go through this process for the year 2002- 2003, that is, presenting the Estimates of the Manitoba Department of Conservation. I trust that members have had the opportunity to review the supplementary information for the depart ment. Mr. Chair man, before proceeding with my opening remarks, I wish to acknowledge the

May 6, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1053 efforts of staff and recognize their service and dedication to enhancing the well- being of Manitobans. They have faithfully worked to ful fill the mandate of the department and ensure the sustainability of our natural resources for present and future generations. The last fiscal year was extremely busy and very productive. Numerous initiatives were undertaken and tasks completed. Today I will highlight our progress, and touch on some of the continuing and new initiatives for this fiscal year.

Starting off with the department: In the past year, we have been involved in a strategic planning process focusing on the changes that must occur within the department over the next few years. This is a service-intensive depart ment. We are committed to becoming the most effective agency in our Government in deliver ing services to the public. We will address issues and problems without compromising the en vironment or natural resources for our future generations. Integrated decision making will be the foundation for resolving issues pertaining to the department.

We will continue to focus our efforts on ensuring the sustainability of Manitoba's natural resources by protecting our environmental integ rity, biological diversity, and addressing the issue of climate change and conserving energy. We will continue to protect the health and safety of Manitobans and minimize the ef fects of natural disasters. We will work effectively with First Nations communities and local com munities, and seek meaningful input in advance of making significant decisions.

We will also continue to improve the one stop approach and enhanced, consistent program delivery at the regional level to directly assist the public. We will approach the 21s t century with a commitment to re-engineer the way we do business to meet the needs of the new millen nium. Mr. Chair, the key priorities of the department include consultation on the strategies we have developed to deal with water issues, including flood, drought, water quality, water quantity, infrastructure, allocation, economic development, drainage, trans-boundary water issues, ecosystem sustainability and water funding.

Treaty and Aboriginal rights will play a significant role in the way that we do business. We will negotiate openly and fairly, and arrive at mutually agreeable solutions rather than be forced by way of court decision. We will address forest inventory, wood supply analysis and allocation on a high- priority basis. We will implement sustainable development within gov ernment. We will examine our current respon sibilities to detern1ine if they meet our current mandate, or if they are more appropriately delivered through other agencies.

Our legislative priorities will include the polar bear protection act, the resource tourism operators act, and amendments to The Environ ment Act. We will also initiate discussions on the development and implementation of a new water act, forestry act and wildlife act. Over the past year, a number of significant accomplishments have occurred. A number of new and continuing initiatives will be pursued in this fiscal year. Conservation administers a significant legislative mandate.

Last year the department initiated an amendment process to eff ect some major changes to The Environment Act to implement the COSDI report. The purpose of these changes was to facilitate a broader assessment of proposed developments; provide opportunities for more comprehensive consultation processes; and provide for a col laborative decision-making process as an alternative to traditional environmental assess ments.

Over this past year, the former COSDI group-core group-and the COSDI advisor group were reconstituted for the purposes of discussing the proposed conceptual amendments and developing recommendations for the detailed requirements necessary for their implementation. Their final report outlining the recommended Environment Act amendments has been sub mitted. We are presently assessing its recom mendations. We will also be introducing a new piece of legislation to better manage the activities of the

1054 LEGlSLA TIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2002 outfitting industry. The resource tourism operators act will be the first act to deal exclusively with this important multimillion dollar industry in our province. It will enable Government to address the resource challenges in this fast evolving sector, providing the ability to accommodate the needs of all stakeholders. Another new piece of legislation, the polar bear protection act, will be introduced as well.

The honorable members here are no doubt aware there is serious provincial, national, and inter national concern over the status and use of polar bears in captive situations. We are, of course, most concerned in particular with those bears that have originated from Manitoba and are now in captivity in other jurisdictions. This new legislation will allow us to enhance existing powers dealing with the import-export trade and relocation of polar bears, ensuring that only agencies and jurisdictions that meet stringent Manitoba standards are eligible. East side planning process.

The process for guiding this major planning initiative for the east side of Lake Winnipeg has continued over the last year. The first phase of this process involv ing public consultations is now completed. Phase 2 involves development of the actual plan. This will be the focus of our efforts . this fiscal year. Phil Fontaine, who many of you know, has been appointed to chair this process to ensure the sustainability of the east side of Lake Winnipeg. Terms of reference were developed for the east side round table. The committee has been established and is now operational. Co-management agreements.

Recently we have seen a number of First Nations, tribal councils, and other levels of Aboriginal govern ment requesting a greater say in activities which occur within areas of traditional land use. This trend will likely increase over time. Mr. Chairman, co-management continues to be an important management tool which we use to address resource management issues and opportunities with First Nations and com munities. It allows government and users to negotiate shared roles and responsibilities in decision making.

Manitoba already has seven co-management agreements, and we hope to build on that foundation. * (15:10 ) This year a memorandum of understanding was negotiated between Manitoba and the Opaskwayak Cree Nation, which will lay the foundation for a future co-management agree ment. Discussions with the Manitoba Metis Federation are also ongoing, and we are working towards developing a province-wide arrange ment between Manitoba and the federation for fishing, hunting and trapping.

This fiscal year, we are proposing the implementation of three new prototype co-management agreements with West Region Tribal Council, Opaskwayak Cree Nation and the Manitoba Metis Federation. When I was first appointed Conservation Minister I was informed about the many adviser bodies that were in place to assist me in managing the various issues in conservation. I think there are more than a dozen of these groups. At the time I was getting briefed, it seemed a lot more like 30. None of these, however, brought the Aboriginal viewpoints to the table. That is why I established the Aboriginal Resources Council.

The Aboriginal Resources Council, which serves as an arm's-length advisory group on Aboriginal resources issues, met seven times in 2001, and has been presented with and considered several initiatives and issues. They have made a number of recommendations on such topics as how fishing and hunting laws apply to Status Indians in Manitoba; the East Side of Lake Winnipeg Planning Initiative; and a natural resource agreement process with Aboriginal people.

We strongly believe that the implementation of these recommendations will enhance First Nation and Metis people's relation ship with both my department and the Govern ment of Manitoba overall. The Manitoba Round Table for Sustainable Development. The Manitoba round table, which I have the pleasure of chairing, have been actively involved in a number of tasks focussed on the implementation of sustainable develop ment policies. I will briefly mention a few of them. Indicators. Feedback from the public participation process was compiled into a

May 6, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 10 55 provincial sustainability indicators, what-you told-us document, which was released during the spring of 2001 . The Manitoba round table submitted a final report to Government in June of 2001 outlining a set of sustainability indicators for the province. My honourable colleagues will recall that I announced on July 3, 2001, the release of the recommendations regarding sustainability indicators submitted by the Manitoba round table and the acceptance by our Government of these 23 indicator categories on an interim basis.

Development of a provincial sustainability report based on these recom mended indicators will be undertaken in this fiscal year. Fish and wildlife strategies. The Manitoba round table also released last year the what-you told-us fish strategy and wildlife strategy documents. At the direction of the round table, a working group reviewed public feedback and made suggestions for amending those policies. The Manitoba round table has now finalized its advice respecting the provincial fish and wildlife policies and revision of The Wildlife Act this fiscal year.

The advice of the round table is now being reviewed by government. Scholarship. The Manitoba round table has established an annual scholarship to assist post secondary students in our province who pursue studies and undertake research that embraces the spirit and principles of sustainable development. The award is open to students in any field of study offered at an approved Manitoba post secondary institution, and consists of a single, non-re newable award of $5 ,000 to cover the cost of tuition, books, fees and other education expenses. The Manitoba Youth Round Table. Mr.

Chairman, recognizing the valuable contribution that our youth can make to sustainable develop ment, the Manitoba round table recommended that the Manitoba Youth Round Table be reconstituted. I am happy to share with the members that the Youth Round Table is now being re-established, bringing the enthusiasm and fresh perspective that is vital to achieving sustainable development in the way we do business, how we live and what we teach our children, and how government operates. The Drinking Water Advisory Report.

We have made good progress over the last year in the implementation of the Drinking Water Advisory Committee's recommendations, and we are committed to further action. On November 29, 2001, Minister Chomiak and I announced the establishment of the provincial office of drinking water.

Among other things, they will initiate a sampling and inspection program for Manitoba's 15 00 semi-public water systems, establish a training program for all inspection personnel, implement a computerized database for drinking water, maintain a lead role in investigating and co-ordinating boiled water advisories with the office of the medical officer of health, and participate in the legislation review process for The Public Health Act and the subsequent drinking water regulations.

During the introduction of the Government's 2002-2003 Budget, it was announced that signi ficant additional resources have been added to this initiative. We will discuss the details respecting those resources during debate of the department's Estimates. To highlight the importance and value of clean water, March 22, 2001, was proclaimed World Water Day in Manitoba with the objective of promoting awareness of and the importance of water for humans in the environment.

A manda tory certification program for operators of water and waste water facilities was introduced this past year, as well as the re-esta blishment of subsidized testing for semi-public drinking water systems. We have also provided funding for a number of initiatives throughout the province through our Manitoba Water Services Board, and in conjunction with the federal government. These include $2 million towards the development of a new regional pipe drinking water system for the 700 residents of St.

Adolphe, lle des Chenes and nearby rural areas; $12 million to assist munici palities in addressing environmental and public health problems regarding their municipal water and sewer systems; and $15 ,000 to Red River College for the development of instruction manuals for use in training courses offered to water system operators. Protecting water quality for all Manitobans continues to be a main priority for our Government.

I0 56 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2002 I would like to talk a little bit about the Water Branch, very briefly. I am not going to go through the whole presentation. I just want to highlight some of the items. With respect to water licensing in the Water Branch, one of our priorities is to examine ways in which we can improve the water licensing process. For the provincial water strategy, we have a broad-based advisory committee reviewing the overall strategy and providing recommendations on the content and implementation of the strategy.

I have received their report and will shortly be initiating phase two of the process, and that is the provincial water strategy. Flood management. As members are aware, flood events in Manitoba have caused and continue to cause social, economic and environ mental stress. Our department has a significant role to play in protecting the health and safety of Manitobans, and preventing and mitigating the adverse financial and environmental effects of flooding.

We have developed a database of flood protection works in the Red River Valley, which will provide details and elevations to the public and government agencies. Over the past year, the Water Branch commissioned a study on the most ef fective way to improve flood protection for Winnipeg. We have now received a report from the Clean Environment Commission on public response to the findings.

An all-party committee of this Legislature has been involved in a follow-up leading to negotiations with the federal govern ment on cost sharing the future of flood protection for Winnipeg and the Red River Valley. * (I5 :20) Lake Manitoba regulation. A Lake Manitoba regulation review advisory committee has been established to examine public concerns over the regulation of water levels of Lake Manitoba. This committee has been provided with exper tise, data and technology available from the provincial, federal and local governments and will have access to outside consult ants as required.

The committee's investigations could take up to a year to complete. The Livestock Stewardship Initiative. The livestock initiative ground water program continued this past year to determine the eff ects of manure spreading on ground water quality. Monitoring continued at four test farm sites, which involved taking over 400 ground water samples for analysis. This fiscal year, we will continue to work on developing monitoring systems for sites where livestock waste has been stored and spread as fertilizer over long periods of time. Water Control Infrastructure.

This past year, we have completed work on the $2.2-million upgrade of The Pas pump station facility for the Pasquia land settlement area. This fiscal year, we will continue underwater refurbishment of the east gate of the inlet control structure of the Red River floodway and install control gates on the Portage diversion floodway for downstream irrigation usage. {interjection} Let me go through this first, okay. I will tell you. Parks and Natural Areas Branch. Heritage rivers and management plans.

In the past year, the Hayes River was nominated and accepted to the Canadian Heritage River System as a candidate heritage river, and work on a manage ment was initiated with Norway House, Oxford House, Shamattawa First Nations and York Factory. Protected areas and park system plan. We remain committed to the establishment of a system of protected areas for Manitoba. We are also very committed to the involvement of Aboriginal communities in the implementation of this program. To that end, consultations are underway with First Nations on II areas of special interest in the Hudson's Bay area.

Currently, efforts are being focussed to ensure that the memorandum of understanding on protected areas between First Nations and the Manitoba government is extended beyond March of2003. Camping and day use. Each year more and more Manitobans and out-of-p rovince visitors enjoy our provincial parks. We operate more than 5800 campsites offering both transient and seasonal camping opportunities. Last year, we welcomed over 5.3 million park visitors,

May 6, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 10 57 including day users, campers, cottagers and organize d groups. Climate Change Br anch. The risks we face from climate change are a continuing concern to this Government. My department continues to be engaged with our federa l, provincial and territorial partners in a nationa l process to work with stakeholders and the public on climate change. The honourable members here will recall that last year a climate change task force was established to help develop our strategy on climate change for here in Manitoba.

The task force called upon Manitoba to support ratifi cation of the Un ited Nations Ky oto protocol as a critical first step in bringing about a global solution for the problem of climate change. The Government has accepted its recommendation and has indicated support for the federal govern ment's future ratification of the Ky oto protocol, provided that we have a sound national plan and that there be credits for renewable energy ex port. Forestry Branch.

One of their accom plishments this past year was the completion of a five - year report to the Legislature on the status of forestry, which I have had the pleasure of tabling earlier this year. The branch also entered into discussions with Te mbec and First Nations limited part nership regarding the development of a joint sawmill project.

Staff also completed a detailed wood supply analysis to de te rmine interim harvest levels on Te mbec's forest management licence area, and integrate it with supply areas one and two for the proposed sawmill and thermal-me chanical pulp mill. * (15:3 0) Discussions on the sawmill project have been very productive. I believe the only thing preventing this project from proceeding is the uncert ainty in the softwood lumber situation, something that must be resolved between the Un ited States government and the Canadian government.

A review of current policy regarding access to Crown timber by First Nations was also initiated this year by Forestr y staff. The Fisheries Branch, the Fisheries Enh ancement Initiative . The branch continues to administer the Fisheries Enhancement Initiative which awarded $325, 000 in grants to 13 projects last year. Fisheries Habitat Man ageme nt : This past year a fish habitat trust fund was established to provide resources for underw ri ting the develop me nt of fish habitat protection guidelines and fish habitat research. Sport and commercial fishing management.

Through the combined efforts of the Wildlife Federation , Mid- Canada Marine Deal er s Associ ation and Recreation Connections, the branch was successful in ex panding Manitoba's recre ational fishing league to nine teams. In conjunction with the urban angling partnership, the branch helped raise over $20, 000 to support 600 youth fishing activities in the city. Also this year branch staff worked with Chemawawin Cree Nation and the community of Eastervil le to devel op a management plan for Cedar Lake focussing on sustainable use and econ om ic rationalization.

Progress was also made in working with Sagkeeng First Nation in the deve l opment of a sturgeon management plan for the Winnipeg River. In consultation with Lake Winnipeg fish er men the Lake Winnipeg Management Board was created to manage the commercial fishery on that lake. Northern Fishermen's Freight Assistance. Our northern communities continue to be faced with the increased financial costs associated with fishing remote lakes and escalating tr ans portation costs to deliver their fish to the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation.

Our Government is sensitive to their problems and a possible collapse of the industry. We have therefore taken action to promote, protect and ensure the continuation of this very necessary northern fishery. To that end, this past year we have ex panded funding for the Nort hern Fisher men's Freight Assistance program fr om $250 , 000 to $400 , 000. Wildlife Branch. With respect to bovine tuberculosis, as I have shared with members previously, bovine TB is a contagious bacteri al infe ction that can affect cattle, bison, deer, elk and, sometimes, humans. Mr. Chair, this year, a

1058 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2002 tuberculosis management task team was formed consisting of staff from Manitoba Conservation, Manitoba Agriculture and Food, Parks Canada and the Canadian Food Inspection Agency. The task team has developed a comprehensive TB implementation plan outlining specific projects and funding requirements to monitor and manage this disease. This Government has committed $1 99,000 in funding per year, over five years, to aggressively address this issue.

This year our efforts will be focussed on the prevention of disease spread and field studies to Jearn more about the movements and behaviour of elk and their interaction with domestic cattle. Forty elk have been radio-col lared as part of these studies. Chronic wasting disease. The other disease issue of immediate concern is the CWD. This disease, as members must be aware, is a relative of mad cow disease. It infects members of the deer family and is unfortunately always fatal. It has not been found in Manitoba, and we are taking steps to prevent its introduction.

In this past year, a CWD surveillance program was initiated in the western part of our province along the Saskatchewan border. Through the co-operative efforts of Manitoba Agriculture and Food, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, the Saskatchewan and Alberta governments, the Canadian Cooperative Wildlife Health Centre and other agencies. We continue to evaluate the extent of the disease in Saskatchewan, the containment efforts being made and the potential risk to Manitoba wildlife. Aboriginal liaison.

A number of initiatives were undertaken this year to assist in the development and implementation of a co operative wildlife management program within the Aboriginal community. An elder was selected to sit on the board of directors of Wildlife Habitat Canada to provide a traditional Aboriginal perspective to the proceedings of that board. Problem wildlife. This past fiscal year we implemented the Winter Beaver Harvest Subsidy program to assist in reducing the beaver population in chronic problem areas, including municipal lands and selected registered trapline districts.

This continues to be the main wildlife concern of many rural municipalities and water conservation districts. Additional resources are being dedicated to this effort in fiscal year 2002-2003. Also problematic are the population levels of geese inside and adjacent to Winnipeg. As their populations continue to rise, particularly in autumn, serious concerns are raised, especially with respect to airport safety. To address these concerns work has begun on the development of an Urban Goose Management program to mitigate problems at Winnipeg airports and on private property.

A new five-year Waterfowl Crop Damage Prevention Agreement with the federal government was finalized this year. The Wildlife Act. The existing Wildlife Act is over 20 years old. Our views and values have changed since it was written. We are embracing ecosystem management, traditional and local knowledge in ensuring our activities are consistent with the principles of sustainable development. The round table has finalized their recommendations and presented them to govern ment. We have now started the review and redrafting process of this act, which will continue this fiscal year. Rare and endangered species.

We continue to have concerns for a number of our at-risk native wild animal and plant species. This fiscal year we will protect habitats in agri-Manitoba through the use of conservation agreements which will be supported by the identification of priority areas from a mixed-grass prairie and species-at-risk invento ries. Woodland caribou. As members may recall, the Woodland Caribou Conservation Strategy for a Manitoba report identified four of fourteen woodland caribou ranges as being at high conservation risk due to human disturbance.

This past year we hosted a stakeholder review of that report, and this fiscal year we will co-ordinate implementation of the strategy and develop action plans for the four high-risk ranges and monitor populations and habitat. Wildlife management areas. This past year wildlife management areas or portions thereof were protected, that is, standards of the protected

May 6, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 10 59 area strategy and four others were protected from use other than petroleum extraction. Habitat enhancement projects were under taken in Little Birch, Basket Lake and Lundar wildlife management areas. Terrestrial Quality Management Branch. As part of our ongoing integration of the former departments of environment and natural re sources, this past February the Terrestrial Quality Management Branch was merged with the Habitat and Land Management

section of the Wildlife branch to become the Habitat Manage ment and Ecosystem Monitoring section. The Pollution Prevention branch procure ment. The branch co-chairs the committee responsible for the government-wide implemen tation of procurement guidelines under The Sustainable Development Act. This past year, the committee, in con sultation with all other government departments, prepared Manitoba's sustainable development procurement goals, a set of procurement goals that will guide and strengthen our practices of acquiring and using goods and services in an environmentally responsible manner.

Product stewardship and waste management. The branch was also involved in the establishment of the Northern Regional Waste Management Committee involving municipal community council, First Nation and Tribal Council, NGO, provincial and federal repre sentation to address waste management issues unique to northern communities. We are now embarking on a stewardship program for house hold hazardous waste to help keep potentially hazardous products out of municipal manage ment systems.

We shall continue our work with industry, consumers, environmental groups, municipalities and oth�r sections to ensure that all Manitobans have better opportunities to manage these wastes in the future. * (15: 40) Treaty Land Entitlement. This past year, an additional eight exclusive huge Crown land permits were issued to First Nations in accord ance with their Treaty Land Entitlement Framework Agreement; 92 17 acres of Crown land were transferred for the use and benefit of Red Sucker Lake First Nation, representing full and final settlement of Manitoba's Crown land obligation.

This past year a review of all Crown land policies, procedures and fee regulations was completed to ensure their relevance, consistency with provincial land use and other departmental policies and sustainable management principles. Implementation of approved revisions will occur during this next fiscal year. Geographical names. Members will be pleased to know that more than 4000 places in Manitoba have now been named in honour of our province's war casualties to a continuing commitment of the Geographical Names

section to improve communications with Aboriginal communities. Several thousand names in the book are now in native language. Work is currently underway to release another publi cation this year to honour Manitoba's war dead, documenting the enduring impact of the sacrifice these men and women made in Manitoba and around the world. Regional Operations Division. New opera tional guidelines for search and rescue opera tions and the resource enforcement mandate were developed. Another first was achieved this year with the inclusion in the hunting and fishing guide of the department Web site of a

section dealing with First Nation hunting and fishing rights. In this fiscal year, we will develop a multijurisdictional internal consultation process to address resource issues with constitutional significance, and we will work towards increasing Aboriginal repre sentation in our resource officer service. The Office of Drinking Water. We are presently reviewing programs in other juris dictions to ensure consistency of approach as we develop the policies and procedures that will guide our province's activities in this regard. The Environmental Livestock Program.

As members are aware, our province has seen a dramatic expansion of the livestock industry over the past few years, especially in the hog industry. To address the environmental aspects of this expansion, we have established the

1060 LEGIS LATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2002 Environmental Livestock Program. Increased monitoring and inspection is key for the success of this program. In the upcoming year we will conduct public and industry consultations on a review of the livestock manure and mort alities management regulation and implement risk-based assessment for citing of all proposed intensive livestock production operations. Bioterrorism protocols. The horrific events of September 11 changed the lives of Mani tobans, just as they changed the lives of people in all countries of the world.

We must now anticipate and have in place plans to deal with acts of terrorism which previously were thought to be unnecessary. We have, since September 11 , developed provincial and City of Winnipeg response protocols for a first response to letters, · packages and substances of concern regarding bioterrorism. The need for bioterrorism proto cols in Manitoba became apparent within days of the act of terrorism in New York with the discovery of a suspicious substance feared to be anthrax, and thankfully, it was not.

Manitobans can be assured that these protocols will continue to be refined and adapted as new monitoring devices become available. As security issues change, so, too, will our response and involve ment continue to evolve. Northeast, northwest. In the northeast and northwest regions this year we plan to complete the OCN co-operative resource management agreement, which envisions shared decision making and resource use and allocation between the First Nation and the department. We will also complete a management and recovery plan for lake sturgeon in the Sas katchewan River.

We will investigate new economic opportunities for First Nation and Northern Affairs communities to become involved in commercial forestry, operations utilizing unallocated softwood and hardwood resources. We will also continue to improve consultation with First Nations communities on new land resource allocation requests. The Red River. We will develop with stake holders a guideline for the management of construction and demolition waste. This is the Red River region we are talking about.

In this fiscal year, we will undertake an audit of municipal water treatment plants which will involve over 50 of these facilities. In the western region, co-management discussions continued with West Region Tribal Council, building upon a memorandum of understanding which was signed in 2002 and which included the creation of the WRTC management office in Dauphin. In the Interlake, the Narcisse snake tunnel project on Provincial Trunk Highway No. 17 continued, with another five tunnels being installed last year. This brings the total number of tunnels to ten.

This joint effort with Manitoba Hydro, Manitoba Highways and a local advisory group has successfully reduced snake mortality. This project will be completed this fiscal year with the installation of three more tunnels and snake barrier fences along PTH No. 17 and the Narcisse snake dens. The Lake Winnipeg Fishermen's Advisory Board was re-esta blished this year. Their first meeting was held in December. This fiscal year we will work with the board in developing recommendations on regulatory line changes, season openings and administrative guidelines.

In the eastern region, the past year saw the completion of the Falcon Lake sewage lagoon to meet environmental standards for the townsite effluent. This will ensure that existing and future recreational development does not adversely impact water quality in the Shoal Lake water shed. Funding in excess of $1 75,000 per year for the next two years is being used to track and map caribou herds on the east side of Lake Winnipeg using global positioning system technology.

The partners have developed draft conservation strategies for some caribou ranges, and plan to develop similar strategies for herds in the northern parts of the region. Planned for this region in the upcoming year is the development of a comprehensive sturgeon man agement plan for the Winnipeg River and Sagkeeng First Nation.

May 6, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1061 Fire program. As we prepare for this year's fire season, I would like to note that last year over 530 fires burned over 86 200 hectares of our forested lands. Past experience has shown us that only Mother Nature truly knows what our situation will be with respect to all fires this year. We will watch, wait and respond, as we have in the past, with ingenuity, determination and professionalism. International and interprovincial water issues.

We continue to work closely with our upstream neighbours to ensure sufficient volumes of good quality water continue to flow into Manitoba. In that regard we will, among other things, monitor closely and actively oppose two controversial water projects in North Dakota: that is the proposed outlet from Devils Lake and the Garrison Diversion, including the northwest area water supply project and the Red River Valley water supply study. Mr. Chairperson, that concludes my opening remarks with respect to the department's '02-'03 Estimates.

I look forward to the detailed review of these Estimates and I thank you for the opportunity to highlight the many accomplish ments and future goals of Manitoba Con servation. Thank you. Mr. Chairperson: We thank the Minister of Conservation for those comments. Does the Official Opposition cnbc, the honourable Member for Lakeside, have any opening comments? Mr. Harry Enos (Lakeside): Yes, I have, Mr. Chairman, and I thank you for that opportunity of providing them.

They will be somewhat shorter than the minister's, but I always enjoyed the minister's comprehensive overview of the many facets of everyday life that his department touches on, and they are wide and varied. * (15 :50) I want to share with him his acknowledgment of the importance and capable work that staff provide to him in this particular department. Staf f are often located .in all parts of the province, remote and otherwise. I share his words of commendation to his staff.

I note that we will be asking some questions as we come to some of the individual divisions of his department that there have been some funda mental changes in senior management in the department. I would like, for the record, to acknowledge the past services of persons like the former Parks Director, Gordon Prouse, who, for many years, presided over the department that looked after our many beautiful parks. Mr. Wooley from the western region, I understand, is no longer with the department. I understand that Mr.

Brian Gillespie has been moved to another position that is different from that of the Wildlife Director position that he held. I want to acknowledge the work of all these gentlemen and others that have maintained the integrity of the department and provided the service that Manitobans deserve.

On one little issue I want to assure .the minister as I have on previous occasions, I regret, although I understand, because I have suffered through the same consequences and the same exercise, and I, of course, noted it in the Budget speech by his colleague the Minister of Finance, this department's contr ibution to maintaining or containing government costs. So I regret to see a $5-mi llion reduction in your Estimates, Mr. Minister, this year. I just want to remind you that when your colleague Mr. Selinger, the Minister of Finance, comes calling, you can tell him that you have already given before.

By that I mean your department has given before. I am painfully aware of the contribution this department, particularly in natural resources, not the environment division of your shop, they went through relatively unscathed in the 1992 exercise of contributing to what was perceived at that time the importance of balanced budget-but certainly the department ·of natural resources, which took a reduction in Estimates in the year '92 from some $1 10 million in 19 91 to $83 million in 19 92.

The department of environment, and it was a department at that time, maintained its relatively stable financing at some $13 million. So, Mr. Minister, remind your colleagues and most importantly the Minister of Health,

1062 LEGISL ATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2002 him too, the Minister of Finance that, as the saying goes, you already gave at the office kind of thing when he comes knocking next door for some more millions of dollars to help solve next year's financial problems. You know, colleagues around the table, as difficult as it may seem, when I was minister of mines and natural resources, my budget was greater than that of the Department of Health. I know I have been around for a while, but I am not talking about the Middle Ages, you know. It has not been that long ago; in '69, check the Estimates. Agriculture .

Estimates were higher than the Department of Health, and somehow we all came into the world reasonably healthy. I cannot recall any major health epidemics of that time when the Department of Health was spending 7 and 8 percent of the total revenues. This Budget now is spending 40 percent. Mr. Minister, I will be asking that in the House. What do we do when we start spending 50, 60, 70 percent on the one Department of Health? Do we come to the conclusion all of a sudden that we can no longer afford public education or maybe just E to 6 or E to 8?

By that time departments like this will long of course have been trashed in the dustbins of history. So we have a big challenge in front of us. We have to rethink about our future ways of financing public businesses. I happen to be very much in love with this part of public business. I think it is extremely important that we are now ap proaching 40 percent of the total Budget on one government seniice. Anyway, I digress. Mr. Minister, you mentioned on several occasions in your opening statements about arriving at mutually agreeable solutions.

I took specific note when you were speaking about arriving at these agreeable solutions, whether it is with First Nations communities or with Metis communities, but I do not hear you necessarily saying all stakeholders. The challenge, of course, is not just simply to arrive at a mutually agreeable solution between government and the First Nations people, or government and the department of natural resources. It is govern ment, department of natural resources, First Nations people and all other stakeholders. That is the issue. That is the challenge in Manitoba. There always are other stakeholders.

That we will have some considerable discussion about during the course of these Estimates, with respect to some of the actions that we believe are going on and you are tolerating.

In various waterways and lakes throughout Manitoba, in direct contradiction to the best efforts of your colleague, the Minister of Tourism, who is attempting to maintain our reputation, our international reputation in terms of our fisheries, of the importance of our fisheries, the importance of the tourist dollars that are generated by healthy sports angling industry in our province, and how important that is, that that be maintained in the manner that it has been developed over the past decade. It has been a decade that has brought our fisheries to the forefront. It was not any single action.

It was the introduction of the barbless hook back in 19 90- 91. It was the ongoing commitment to restocking many of our lakes and waterways. It is our improvement programs on spawning grounds. It is support, and I regret, Mr. Minister, I will have to take you to task for that, but specifically the area of some of our hatcheries, that support seems to have been sliding badly. So, Mr. Chairman, it is those kinds of issues that I will be looking forward to taking further, elaborating with the minister as we move through his departments. There are a number of areas that I want to commend the minister on.

His overall attention to water concerns are commendable. Water is an issue that all Manitobans have a very great interest in, as they should. I commend the minister's efforts at expansion of testing pro grams. I commend the minister and the Govern ment and the department in their efforts to, particularly, work co-opera tively, I hope, with the Department of Agriculture in monitoring and in developing programs that tie in with the expanded livestock production that is occurring and continuing to occur in the province of Manitoba.

I have a specific request, and I will ask the minister of that when his department officials are with him. You know, I maintain, of course, that agriculture continues to get a bad deal out of this

May 6, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1063 thing. Everybody assumes, everybody knows, of course, that it is the hog barns that are polluting our water. I just witnessed this story in the Winnipeg Free Press two days ago, three days ago, last week, which featured substantial ongoing increase in hog production. One gentleman from the southeast, Mr. Bezditny, I believe, maintains that he is on watch water orders because of all the hog barns around him. I have to thank your department. I made the request some time ago.

I asked for a listing of all the boil orders, warning orders that your department has issued in Manitoba. There are not that many, but there are too many, I will acknowledge. There are quite a list of them. I suspect that not in a single instance, not in a single instance, has a hog barn been responsible for water pollution. If you can challenge me on that, then I will be happy to know about it. I would like, for instance, to know, and I am going to be asking the Minister of Agriculture to pursue specifically that gentleman's complaint last week in the Winnipe g Free Press.

My understanding is that it is from a modest and old pile of beef, cattle yard manure that has contaminated his particular well water, but he gets away with a statement, because of all the hogs being built in the southeast corner, that is why his water is being poisoned. I think, Mr. Minister, your department, you have a responsi bility in assisting, in a sense, your colleague the Minister of Agriculture in ensuring, at least, that subject matter gets treated objectively and fairly. I serve notice to you, Mr. Minister, and to staff that are there, I will be asking specifically.

In other words, I think you would be doing us all a favour, all of us a favour in your commendable pursuit of ensuring the safety of Manitoba's water supplies if you went the next step and identified the pollutant. I would venture to say that 80 percent of the pollution problems are caused by our own septic tank systems. I do not know. I would say that, in many other cases, it is caused by municipal pollutants or industrial pollutants.

But inasmuch that we have entire organizations, like Hogwatch, built on the premise that hogs and hogs alone-and they have to come from barns that contain 2000 units or more; 400 hogs, 500-hogs cannot pollute anything, but a big hog barn pollutes our ground water. You see that in the press virtually every other week. Your department, Mr. Minister, and your people that are administering this program bear some responsibility in correcting that situation. If I am wrong, then certainly expose it. I will be asking specifically, Mr.

Minister, how many of your boil orders, watch orders or whatever restraints that you have put on the usage of drinking water, wherever you have identified water as being in some forn1 contaminated, I would like to pursue the source of the contamination. I am pleased to note that you are recognizing the Hayes River for further recognition in terms of the Heritage River System. I want you to know, Mr.

Minister, that I personally canoed the Hayes River up to York Factory on a fine June and July day and then went on to greater challenges like the Seal, which is a real white water experience. * (1 6:00) I conclude, Mr. Chairperson, by simply suggesting again, and I want to be very clear on this, there are a lot of people who have been concerned about the capability of consulting with you and your department on issues of major concern. I remind you again that arriving at mutually agreeable solutions between one party and leaving other parties out is not what I call arriving at an acceptable solution.

I take issue with your department, Mr. Minister, on a subject matter closer and nearer and dearer to you personally and to your home of what is happening up at Clearwater Lake Park in The Pas. To make fundamental changes on parks' boundaries, I am not suggesting that that cannot be done, but the act clearly states that the broadest of public consultation should take place prior to that happening. Scheduling a few meetings in early February and March, with little notice to interested parties, is not, in my humble opinion, what I would describe as broad public participation.

We are talking about a major revision of one of our finest public parks. So, on those issues, we will be examining with you exactly who you are consulting with and to what extent and how inclusive those

10 64 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2002 consultations are. It is important to arrive at mutually agreeable solutions between govern ment, department, First Nations peoples, Metis people and all other interested stakeholders. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairperson: We thank the critic from the Official Opposition for those remarks. Before we continue, I just want a reminder: Comments are to be put through the Chair and not to the minister, just as a reminder. Thank you.

Under Manitoba practice, debate on the Minister's Salary is traditionally the last item considered for the Estimates of a department. Accordingly, we shall defer consideration of this item, and I will proceed with consideration of the next line. But before we do that, we invite the minister's staff to join us at the table, and we ask that the minister introduce his staff present here. Mr. Lathlin: You know, Mr. Chair, during my opening remarks-and I have been planning to do this for a while now, but it seems like I never had the opportunity.

I suppose I could have done it when I rose to answer questions in the House, but I have never officially congratulated and welcomed our new Member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Hawranik). So at this time I wish to congratulate you on your winning your seat. Of course, I wish all the best to you in your work here in the Legislature. Harry has been here-y our colleague the Member for Lakeside (Mr. Enns) has been here a lot longer than most people. You know, I think this fall will be 12 years for me. It has been a rewarding experience for me. I am sure you too will find it very rewarding as you start your new career.

So welcome and congratulations. * (16:10 ) Mr. Chairperson, I want to introduce our staff from Conservation. We have Norm Brandson, who is the Deputy Minister; Harvey Boyle, who is the Assistant Deputy Minister for Regional Operations; Dave Wotton, who is the Assistant Deputy Minister for Programs; Wolf Boehm, who is the Assistant Deputy Minister for Corporate Services; and Serge Scrafield, who is the Assistant Deputy Minister for Stewardship. I think I got that right. Mr. Chairperson: We thank the minister. 1. Administration and Finance (

b) Executive Support (

I) Salaries and Employee Benefits $458, 600-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $1 08,800-pass. l. (

c) Corporate Services

(1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $660,600-p ass;

(2) Other Expenditures $680,900- pass. 1. (

d) Financial Services ( 1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $1 ,423,500. Shall the line pass? Mr. Enos: This is as good a place as any to ask a couple of questions. I would ask the minister: At what level of staf f vacancies is the department as a whole operating under? We will be more interested in specific areas of the department, but I would ask the general question dealing with the administrative people of the department. I would like to have an idea of what the average vacancy rate is within the department. Mr. Lathlin: Mr.

Chairperson, I can advise the member that the current vacancy rate stands at 8.67 percent. Mr. Eons: Thank you, Mr. Minister. One further question that really stems from a budget ary matter that was announced when the Minister of Finance introduced the Budget, and one, by the way, that I fully support and have commended the Government for taking, is the funding of all employees' pensions on a current basis. The way it was presented to us was that each individual department now accepts that responsibility of pension liability, full pension liability funding. My question to the minister, through you, Mr.

Chairman, to the minister, is again: Appreci ating with change, but on an average basis,either in dollar and cents or in percentage terms, what . kind of impact did that measure have on the overall departmental salary costs for a department like natural resources? If that is a question that may need a bit of time, I can

May 6, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1065 appreciate that. I would appreciate it if they could take that as notice. What I am trying to do is, while I do not take opposition to the measure, we will be asking every minister that question. That is a new cost that the department to this date has not had to bear. Mr. Lathlin: Mr. Chairperson, I appreciate the member's offer to give me a little bit of time while I get the numbers straightened out. I may come back with that response later on today or tomorrow. Mr. Chairperson: l. (d)

(1) Salaries and Employment Benefits $1 ,423,5 00-pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $3 12 ,000-p ass. l. (

e) Human Resources Services

(1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $997,80 0- pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $84,800- pass. l. (

f) Information Technology Services

(1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $1 ,262,500- pass;

(2) Other Expenditures $335 ,400-pass. 12 .2. Conservation Support Services (

a) Computer Graphics (

I) Salaries and Employee Benefits $480,900. Mr. Enos: A brief description of the activities of this branch. Is this where it provides services not just internally to government but also to the general public? Can I, if I am planning a camping trip, knock on your door and ask for a more precise map of a given area, or is it just for professional services, prospecting purposes, Crown land purposes? A brief description of the nature of the maps and surveys that accounts for the half a million dollars that you are asking for here. Mr. Lathlin : Mr.

Chair, I can advise the member that the services that he is referring to are not directly accessible to the public, but that that service supports map services which do deal with the public. Mr. Enos: I beg your pardon. I did not quite hear the last. I know, Mr. Chairman, to the minister, that I believe the general public can have access to some of the mapping services of the department. I am just wondering if this is the shop where they knock on the door. Mr. Lathlin: Again, I want to advise the member that apparently this area is not directly accessible to the public, but there is a

section in govenm1ent that deals with the selling of maps. Mr. Chairperson: Item 2. Conservation Support Services (

a) Computer Graphics

(1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $480,900-pa ss;

(2) Other Expenditures $38, 100- pass. 2.(

b) Survey Services

(1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $1 ,660,500. Mr. Eons: Again, I apologize for not always being able to remember or recall precisely the services required. The survey services that is provided by the depart ment, are you at all involved in any maintenance of the survey system in the province?

I know that you would be called upon to do survey work if designation of a specific piece of land came into question, sale of Crown land came into question or under some questioning; but there is the overall maintenance of the survey system in the province of Manitoba that regrettably, over the years, has fallen into some disrepair, if I can use that word, and different organizations from time to time have petitioned governments past, and I am sure present, for a more significant contribution to the maintenance and the rehabilitation of the original survey markers that dot the countryside across the width and breadth of the province.

Mr. Lathlin: I can indicate to the member that the Survey

section does land surveys, land boundaries, and I think all survey monuments and so forth. I think that is what the member is referring to. These are part of the overall system that we are maintaining. * (1 6:20) Mr. Enos: Mr. Chairman, I bow to my colleague who has had a distinguished law career here in rural parts of Manitoba. He will understand how important this rather innocuous little line item is. It is the fact that the

1066 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 6, 2002 monuments had been disturbed over the years, some by agricultural practices or otherwise, that can greatly vary the costs to an individual when he is in requirement of a survey. If monuments are in place and readily accessible, surveying costs can be reasonable, a couple thousand dollars or less. If the surveyor has to go four or five miles to find a marker, that surveying cost for a nominal lot all of a sudden becomes $5 ,000, $6,000, $7,000, $8,000; so I encourage the minister and the department that, although I suspect it has not got a great deal of sex appeal in the d

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	37-3-26
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	37th 3rd hansardpdf 26.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	31291337cb5ae593a9a890f36c43be6fd1ca2a80

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (pdf).