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British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session, 38th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Monday, February 18, 2008 Afternoon Sitting Volume 26, Number 6 THE HONOURABLE BILL BARISOFF, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR His Honour the Honourable Steven L. Point, OBC FOURTH SESSION, 38TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Bill Barisoff EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................Hon. Gordon Campbell Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations .......................................................................................................... Hon.

John van Dongen Deputy Premier and Minister of Education and Minister Responsible for Early Learning and Literacy...................... Hon. Shirley Bond Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation ........................................................................................................ Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of Advanced Education and Minister Responsible for Research and Technology ........................................... Hon.

Murray Coell Minister of Agriculture and Lands.......................................................................................................................................................Hon. Pat Bell Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Multiculturalism............................................................................... Hon. Wally Oppal, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ................................................................................................................Hon.

Tom Christensen Minister of State for Childcare ........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Linda Reid Minister of Community Services and Minister Responsible for Seniors’ and Women’s Issues........................................... Hon. Ida Chong Minister of Economic Development and Minister Responsible for the Asia-Pacific Initiative and the Olympics.................Hon.

Colin Hansen Minister of Employment and Income Assistance ...........................................................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources .......................................................................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Minister of State for Mining......................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Kevin Krueger Minister of Environment and Minister Responsible for Water Stewardship and Sustainable Communities ...............Hon. Barry Penner Minister of Finance.......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Carole Taylor Minister of Forests and Range and Minister Responsible for Housing ............................................................................. Hon.

Rich Coleman Minister of Health ......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. George Abbott Minister of Labour and Citizens’ Services ......................................................................................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General................................................................................................................................Hon.

John Les Minister of Small Business and Revenue and Minister Responsible for Regulatory Reform............................................ Hon. Rick Thorpe Minister of Tourism, Sport and the Arts ......................................................................................................................................Hon. Stan Hagen Minister of State for ActNow B.C. ............................................................................................................................................ Hon.

Gordon Hogg Minister of Transportation...........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Kevin Falcon LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition .........................................................................................................................................................Carole James Deputy Speaker ....................................................................................................................................................................................Sindi Hawkins Deputy Speaker ...........................................................................................................................................................................

Katherine Whittred Assistant Deputy Speaker.....................................................................................................................................................................Sue Hammell Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole................................................................................................................................................. Harry Bloy Clerk of the Legislative Assembly .........................................................................................................................E.

George MacMinn, OBC, QC Clerk Assistant.........................................................................................................................................................................................Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk .......................................................................................................................................................Ian D. Izard, QC Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees ....................................................................................................................................... Craig H.

James Clerk Assistant and Committee Clerk ..........................................................................................................................................Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms............................................................................................................................................................................. A.A.

Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ...................................................................................................................................................................Jo-Anne Kern Legislative Librarian ..................................................................................................................................................................................Jane Taylor Legislative Comptroller...............................................................................................................................................................................Dan Arbic

Party Standings: Liberal 46; New Democratic 33 ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) .................................................................... Shuswap Austin, Robin (NDP)............................................................................. Skeena Bains, Harry (NDP).................................................................. Surrey-Newton Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)..........................................Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Hon.

Pat (L) .............................................................Prince George North Bennett, Bill (L) ........................................................................ East Kootenay Black, Iain (L) ............................................................ Port Moody–Westwood Bloy, Harry (L)................................................................................Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L).....................................Prince George–Mount Robson Brar, Jagrup (NDP).....................................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Campbell, Hon.

Gordon (L) .........................................Vancouver–Point Grey Cantelon, Ron (L)..............................................................Nanaimo-Parksville Chong, Hon. Ida (L) .................................................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ...........................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Christensen, Hon. Tom (L) ................................................. Okanagan-Vernon Chudnovsky, David (NDP) ......................................... Vancouver-Kensington Coell, Hon.

Murray (L) .....................................Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon. Rich (L)...........................................Fort Langley–Aldergrove Conroy, Katrine (NDP) .......................................... West Kootenay–Boundary Coons, Gary (NDP) ....................................................................... North Coast Cubberley, David (NDP)............................................................Saanich South de Jong, Hon.

Michael (L) ...................................Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Dix, Adrian (NDP) .........................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Evans, Corky (NDP).................................................................Nelson-Creston Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L) .......................................................

Surrey-Cloverdale Farnworth, Mike (NDP) ...............................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Fleming, Rob (NDP) ..............................................................Victoria-Hillside Fraser, Scott (NDP) ..............................................................Alberni-Qualicum Gentner, Guy (NDP).......................................................................Delta North Hagen, Hon. Stan (L) ................................................................ Comox Valley Hammell, Sue (NDP) ................................................... Surrey–Green Timbers Hansen, Hon.

Colin (L) ..................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Hawes, Randy (L).......................................................... Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Sindi (L) ............................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ................................................................ Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Hon.

Gordon (L).....................................................Surrey–White Rock Horgan, John (NDP)......................................................Malahat–Juan de Fuca Horning, Al (L)........................................................... Kelowna–Lake Country Ilich, Hon. Olga (L)...............................................................Richmond Centre James, Carole (NDP).......................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Jarvis, Daniel (L)..................................................

North Vancouver–Seymour Karagianis, Maurine (NDP) ........................................... Esquimalt-Metchosin Krog, Leonard (NDP)......................................................................... Nanaimo Krueger, Hon. Kevin (L) .....................................Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP)........................... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lali, Harry (NDP)........................................................................

Yale-Lillooet Lee, Richard T. (L)....................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L).............................................................. Peace River South Les, Hon. John (L)............................................................... Chilliwack-Sumas Macdonald, Norm (NDP).................................... Columbia River–Revelstoke MacKay, Dennis (L)....................................................

Bulkley Valley–Stikine Mayencourt, Lorne (L).......................................................Vancouver-Burrard McIntyre, Joan (L).................................................West Vancouver–Garibaldi Neufeld, Hon. Richard (L) .................................................. Peace River North Nuraney, John (L).............................................................Burnaby-Willingdon Oppal, Hon. Wally, QC (L).......................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Penner, Hon. Barry (L)...........................................................

Chilliwack-Kent Polak, Mary (L) ....................................................................................Langley Puchmayr, Chuck (NDP)...................................................... New Westminster Ralston, Bruce (NDP) ............................................................. Surrey-Whalley Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ................................................................ Richmond East Richmond, Hon. Claude (L).............................................................

Kamloops Robertson, Gregor (NDP) ................................................Vancouver-Fairview Roddick, Valerie (L).......................................................................Delta South Routley, Doug (NDP)..................................................... Cowichan-Ladysmith Rustad, John (L) ........................................................

Prince George–Omineca Sather, Michael (NDP).........................................Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ...................................Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Bob (NDP)..................................................................Cariboo North Simpson, Shane (NDP) ....................................................Vancouver-Hastings Sultan, Ralph (L) ....................................................West Vancouver–Capilano Taylor, Hon.

Carole (L).....................................................Vancouver-Langara Thorne, Diane (NDP) .................................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Thorpe, Hon. Rick (L).......................................................Okanagan-Westside Trevena, Claire (NDP) ..................................................................North Island van Dongen, Hon. John (L)............................................ Abbotsford-Clayburn Whittred, Katherine (L)........................................

North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wyse, Charlie (NDP) .................................................................Cariboo South Yap, John (L)...................................................................Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn....................................................Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman .......................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum..........................................................................

Scott Fraser Bulkley Valley–Stikine ...........................................................Dennis MacKay Burnaby North ...........................................................................Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds........................................................................Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Willingdon................................................................... John Nuraney Burquitlam.......................................................................................Harry Bloy Cariboo North..............................................................................

Bob Simpson Cariboo South..............................................................................Charlie Wyse Chilliwack-Kent ..................................................................Hon. Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas...................................................................... Hon. John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke................................................. Norm Macdonald Comox Valley........................................................................ Hon.

Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville..............................................................Diane Thorne Cowichan-Ladysmith ................................................................. Doug Routley Delta North ...................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South ............................................................................. Valerie Roddick East Kootenay................................................................................

Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin.........................................................Maurine Karagianis Fort Langley–Aldergrove ..................................................Hon. Rich Coleman Kamloops.....................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson ............................................Hon. Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country.................................................................. Al Horning Kelowna-Mission ......................................................................

Sindi Hawkins Langley ...........................................................................................Mary Polak Malahat–Juan de Fuca .................................................................. John Horgan Maple Ridge–Mission ................................................................ Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ..................................................... Michael Sather Nanaimo......................................................................................

Leonard Krog Nanaimo-Parksville .....................................................................Ron Cantelon Nelson-Creston .............................................................................Corky Evans New Westminster .................................................................. Chuck Puchmayr North Coast....................................................................................

Gary Coons North Island ...............................................................................Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale................................................Katherine Whittred North Vancouver–Seymour..........................................................Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head ........................................................... Hon. Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon......................................................... Hon. Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside..............................................................Hon.

Rick Thorpe Peace River North.......................................................... Hon. Richard Neufeld Peace River South..................................................................... Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley .................................................Hon. Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain ............................................Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Westwood.................................................................... Iain Black Powell River–Sunshine Coast ...............................................

Nicholas Simons Prince George North.................................................................... Hon. Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson ............................................Hon. Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca................................................................ John Rustad Richmond Centre......................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Richmond East........................................................................Hon.

Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston...........................................................................John Yap Saanich North and the Islands ............................................ Hon. Murray Coell Saanich South ........................................................................ David Cubberley Shuswap............................................................................Hon. George Abbott Skeena.......................................................................................... Robin Austin Surrey-Cloverdale............................................................... Hon.

Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers ................................................................Sue Hammell Surrey-Newton............................................................................... Harry Bains Surrey–Panorama Ridge.................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey-Tynehead ....................................................................... Dave S. Hayer Surrey-Whalley...........................................................................Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock ............................................................Hon.

Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard..............................................................Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview.............................................................Gregor Robertson Vancouver-Fraserview .................................................Hon.

Wally Oppal, QC Vancouver-Hastings .................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington.......................................................David Chudnovsky Vancouver-Kingsway ......................................................................Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara ........................................................... Hon. Carole Taylor Vancouver–Mount Pleasant........................................ Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey ................................................Hon.

Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena.........................................................Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill...................................................................

Carole James Victoria-Hillside ...........................................................................Rob Fleming West Kootenay–Boundary........................................................Katrine Conroy West Vancouver–Capilano...........................................................Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi ........................................................Joan McIntyre Yale-Lillooet..................................................................................... Harry Lali

CONTENTS Monday, February 18, 2008 Afternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Introductions by Members ....................................................................................................... .............................................. 9731 Tributes ....................................................................................................................... .............................................................. 9731 Jeneece Edroff Hon. G.

Campbell Introductions by Members ....................................................................................................... .............................................. 9731 Statements (Standing Order 25 B) .............................................................................................................................. ............. 9731 Allan Matthews C. Wyse Black History Month D. Hayer Faith-based organizations in New Westminster C. Puchmayr Kathy Barnett J. McIntyre Cariboo dogsled mail run B. Simpson North Shore Community Resources Society K.

Whittred Oral Questions................................................................................................................. ......................................................... 9733 Definition of revenue-neutral C. James Hon. C. Taylor B. Ralston Hon. R. Thorpe B.C. Hydro and independent power producers J. Horgan Hon. R. Neufeld TransLink board remuneration and transit rates M. Karagianis Hon. K. Falcon Ferry fares G. Coons Hon. K. Falcon C. Trevena ICBC rate structure H. Lali Hon. J. Les Funding for sexual abuse intervention program N. Simons Hon. T.

Christensen Point of Privilege............................................................................................................. ......................................................... 9739 B. Simpson R. Hawes Petitions...................................................................................................................... ............................................................... 9739 C. Wyse

Throne Speech Debate (continued) .............................................................................................................................. ........... 9739 M. Sather R. Hawes S. Fraser Hon. T. Christensen C. Trevena D. MacKay M. Karagianis Hon. K. Krueger

9731 MONDAY, FEBRUARY 18, 2008 The House met at 1:34 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Introductions by Members C. James: All of us in this Legislature know that it's impossible for us to do our jobs if not for the support of family and friends in our lives, and I have two such friends visiting me in the Legislature today. They moved in on my street as neighbours and became close friends — we raised our children together — and are a very important part of my life.

It also happens to be Pat's birthday, so I would like the House both to wish her a very happy birthday and to welcome Pat and Allan Miller to the Legislature. Tributes JENEECE EDROFF Hon. G. Campbell: We all in this Legislature have heard of Jeneece Edroff, a young girl from Saanich who at the age of seven years old started to raise money in her school for children in Variety Club. In her first year she raised $164. She suffers, as I'm sure members will remem- ber, from a rare disease known as neurofibromatosis.

Her family receives suppo rt through Variety, but Jeneece thought she could go out and talk with kids in the community, go around the community and try and raise resources for other pe ople. She started when she was seven. I'd like to tell the House that this year alone she raised $400,000. She can now say that she has raised $1.1 million for the children of British Columbia, and I'd like to congratulate her for that exceptional feat. [1335] Introductions by Members N. Macdonald: I'd like to make a couple of intro- ductions. First, I'd like to welcome Tara Taylor.

She is from White Rock, and she is with Bram Rossman, who is from Invermere and was a journalist in Invermere and has just returned from Central America. If you could join me in making them welcome. Secondly, it's my privilege to have my wife Karen here with me, and my daughter Danielle and my daughter Brandy. They're jo ining us, Danielle for the first time. Please join me in making them welcome. Hon. O. Ilich: I, too, have a member of my family here today. My son Matthew is here to watch the pro- ceedings today, and he is joined by my administrative assistant from my office, Jane Wong.

Would the House please make them welcome today. C. Wyse: Indeed, it must be family day here in the Legislature. I have three in troductions I would like to make. I will start off by introducing my daughter to the House, Anne Marie Wyse, who is visiting us from Alberta. I would also like to introduce to the House Al Matthews, who is formerly from Cariboo North. Al now lives here in Victoria. Finally, I would like to recognize Roxanne Carr, who is a councillor with S t r a t h c o n a c o u n t y i n A l b e r t a , i n w a r d 2 . I w o u l d ask the House to indeed make these three individuals welcome. J.

Brar: Up in the gallery I have a couple of friends I would like to introduce to this House. We have Jaspreet Singh Kahlon, who is specially visiting us from San Francisco, and we also have Ranjit Sandhu, who lives in this beautiful city of Victoria. Please make both of them welcome. Hon. R. Thorpe: As you are aware, Penticton this year will celebrate 100 years. On behalf of the Centennial Committee of Penticton, a book has been prepared by the Penticton writers and publishers and all kinds of other volunteers in Penticton.

On behalf of Penticton, it's my pleasure to present this book to the Legislative Library of the Legislative Assembly. Statements (Standing Order 25

B) ALLAN MATTHEWS C. Wyse: I am particularly pleased to address the House today to acknowledge a man who has recently been recognized for his volunteer work. This man is a volunteer who has given his time, his talents and his heart to his community, and he's in the House today. Allan Matthews, my friend and longtime colleague at Columneetza Secondary School in Williams Lake, was recognized for his volunteer work and was inducted into the B.C. Hockey Hall of Fame in January of this year.

He has devoted his time to young people through teaching, through his sponsorship with school teams in the Kootenays and the Cari boo and through his work in hockey. Mr. Matthews was chair of Hockey Canada in 2005, culminating more than 30 years of involvement in hockey that included mino r hockey, Junior A, Junior B, Canada Winter Games, Northern B.C. Winter Games, team manager and team coach. He was president of the B.C.

Amateur Hockey Association and has accompanied hockey teams to tournaments throughout Canada and around the world, has been education consultant for the under-18 team at world championships and was Hockey Canada's delegate to the International Ice Hockey Federation from 2003 through 2005. He has received the Hockey Canada Volunteer of the Year Award, the Hockey Canada Minor Hockey Week Award, the Dunk Jamieson Award for out- standing volunteer service to the game of hockey, the city of Williams Lake certificate of merit and the Queen's Jubilee medal. But Al Matthews's volunteer work is not limited to hockey.

He has chaired the Williams Lake Parks and

9732 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, FEBRUARY 18, 2008 Recreation Commission, was secretary of the Williams Lake new arena fundraising committee and has served on many committees of the school district where he has taught. Al is a fine citizen, an excellent role model for others and a worthy recipient of the many awards he has received. Please join me in acknowledging my friend, my colleague and a very fine man, Allan Matthews. [1340] BLACK HISTORY MONTH D. Hayer: Mr.

Speaker, the observance of February as Black History Month is particularly significant to British Columbia as we celebrate the foundation of this province 150 years ago. It's significant because our founding father, Sir James Douglas, was black, son of a Scottish merchant. The history books describe his mother as a free coloured woman from British Guiana. To further ascribe the multicultural history of our founding father, on a fur-trading trip to Fort Vancouver on the Columbia River in what is now called Washington State, he met and married Amelia, whose history was native Indian.

It is with great pride, as the Parliamentary Secretary for Multiculturalism and Immigration, to recognize the incredible mix of cultures that has existed in British Columbia since its birth in 1858. In fact, it was Governor Douglas who encouraged the first immigration to British Columbia of people other than Caucasians. He ac tively encouraged blacks from Africa to come to this new colony. On April 25, 1858, the first black settlers arrived at Fort Victoria.

Interestingly, despite the long and deep roots that people of black descent have in our province, it was not until February 1994 that the British Columbia Black History Awareness Society was formed. Mr. Speaker, I want you to take note that history was created in our Parliament Buildings when Rosemary Brown became the first black woman ever to be elected to a Canadian legislature. I would also be remiss not to acknowledge one of your forerunners to the chair, Speaker Emery Barnes.

I ask all the members in this House to honour the enormous contributions that the black community has made to British Columb ia not just in modern history but right back to the roots of our province 150 years ago. FAITH-BASED ORGANIZATIONS IN NEW WESTMINSTER C. Puchmayr: Many faith-based organizations in my community do so much to assist those who have so little. Saint Barnabas Church has a small congregation, yet feeds so many people. They are the host to recovery programs, a child care, a drop-in program, a native artists gathering, a thrift store and an annual Christmas dinner.

Shilo–Sixth Avenue United Church has a food bank and a drop-in centre as well as recovery pro- grams. St. Aidan's is active in the Grow-A-Row food planting program, and the Wood Street Khalsa Diwan Temple is active with many other temples in the region in feeding the homeless in the downtown east side. The Gospel Mission is very active daily feeding the homeless in New Westminster, and the Salvation Army runs most, if not all, of the emergency shelter beds in New Westminster.

One can only imagine what it would be like without the assistance of these organizations, especially now as we see an alarming increase in homelessness — not just with young people. It's with seniors and those with mental illness as well. There is a common denominator amongst these and other organizations in New Westminster, and it doesn't matter what your spiritual beliefs or faiths are. I'm sure there are many other communities in British Columbia that are blessed in this manner and are try- ing so desperately to assist th ose less fortunate.

It must be a daunting task, as many congregations have seen a decline in their growth over the years. Yet we see that in a time of need, extraordinary things will happen, and it's extraordinary to see so many get out and help those in need. KATHY BARNETT J. McIntyre: I rise today to pay tribute to a woman named Kathy Barnett, who on January 30 was taken from us prematurely when she was killed by a motorist while on holiday on a cycling tour in New Zealand with her husband and business partner, Bob Barnett.

Born in 1958, she did not quite make it to a full 50 years, although she accomplished much in her active lifetime. I only had the privilege of knowing her for several years, but from the grief and the shock and the tributes that poured in when the news hit the Whistler community that they had lost one of their true leaders, you can see what a tremendous influence she had on those who knew and loved he r, those she volunteered with and those who worked with her. Kathy was co-founder and publisher of the Pique Newsmagazine and served tirelessly for numerous non- profit organizations and local charities.

She was an active member of several boards, including the Whistler chamber; Tourism Whistler ; the Women's Enterprise Centre, founded by western diversification; and the Community Foundation of Whistler, of which she was a founding member. [1345] She also served on the Sm all Business Roundtable for our Ministry of Small Business and Revenue, where the minister and her colleagues will miss her forthright views and her work ethic. She had an infectious laugh and a twinkle in her eye, and she'll be sorely missed by all.

I'd like to read the poem from the celebration of her life held February 10 in a packed conference centre in Whistler, as it suits her to a T. Tributes to her were flowing, and there were te ars and laughter. She'll be remembered always as a mentor, role model, good friend and an inspiration to businesswomen in B.C. Kathy Barnett, I see your eyes in the snows of winter, sparkling like diamonds, floating through the air.

MONDAY, FEBRUARY 18, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 9733 I hear your voice in the birds of spring, laughing and joyous on the first warm breeze. I witness your accomplishments everywhere I go, reflected in the faces of friends, and friends unmet. Gone too soon, remembered too well, missed too achingly, with us everywhere. CARIBOO DOGSLED MAIL RUN B. Simpson: This year the kickoff event for B.C.'s 150th anniversary took place January 24 to 27 in the Cariboo. It was the 16th annual running of the Gold Rush Dogsled Mail Run.

The dogsled mail run follows the old Cariboo wagon road, which was one of the first infrastructure projects of the fledgling Crown colony, and I'm quite certain it wasn't a P3. During this event, mail is specifically sent in specially designed envelopes. It's transported for three days in the basket of a dogsled through the sites of six former or existing post offices, including Barkerville, which is the fifth-oldest operating post office in the province. In fact, all the mushers had to be sworn in as letter carriers before they could head out on the trail.

That included the Minister of State for ActNow B.C. and myself, even though we only participated in the ceremonial start. The trail runs for a hundred kilometres starting in Quesnel, with overnights in Cottonwood House and at Troll Ski Resort. On the final day the mushers go through Stanley and Barkerville before finishing in Wells. This year there were 33 dogsleds; 28 finished. They were from Australia, Germany, the U.S. — California, Minnesota and Washington State — Northwest Territories, B.C. and Alberta.

There were also cross-country skiers, skijorers — which I think is suicide on skis, as it's dogs pulling a skier — showshoers and snowmobilers. As I said, the Minister of State for ActNow B.C. and I participated in the opening ceremonies and the cere- monial start. I have to say that the community is still abuzz about the stance the mini ster took on the back of his four-dog team, and there' s a video that people can look at if they're curious. Seriously, though, it takes a community to put on such a successful event. There were 16 committees and 65 volunteers.

Special note goes to Jeff Dinsdale, Eileen Seel and Lynn Yorkas, and a very special note to Terry Johnston and the crew who prepared the trails. I ask the House to thank these volunteers for such a great kickoff event. NORTH SHORE COMMUNITY RESOURCES SOCIETY K. Whittred: North Shore Community Resources is a non-profit organization with a strong focus on sup- porting their employees. In fact, they were recently recognized for this leadership. On February 1 North Shore Community Resources received a 2008 WorkLife B.C. award of merit.

The WorkLife B.C. awards recognize B.C. employ- ers who have developed workplaces that support their employees to balance commitments for work and for family. They recognize the challenges that families face in balancing children's dental appointments with pro- fessional responsibilities. Flexibility in the workplace is increasingly becoming a priority for employees. Employers who understand this can help employees juggle the demands, responsi- bilities and choices they face both at home and at work.

Chosen from hundreds of applicants across the province, North Shore Community Resources are deserving recipients for their outstanding commitment to the needs of their employees. By allowing flexible work hours, the ability for employees to bring children to work and the understanding that elderly parents often need care, North Shore Community Resources truly is an example to the province. [1350] Also, as a multiservice agency, North Shore Com- munity Resources includes North Shore Child Care, Resource and Referral, Information North Shore, Vol- unteer North Shore and seniors one-stop information centre.

Having all of these valuable services in one office creates a bit of a one-stop shop of support for many North Vancouver residents. Once again, I would like to give my heartfelt con- gratulations to North Shore Community Resources, who are now recognized across the province for their commitment to help people balance family and work. Oral Questions DEFINITION OF REVENUE-NEUTRAL C. James: For months there has been widespread speculation that the government is going to bring in a new gas tax. Both the minister and the Premier promised that such a tax would be revenue-neutral.

Unfortunately, the Minister of Finance's shifting and confusing defini- tion of revenue-neutral has caused much uncertainty. Maybe today the Minister of Finance can clear up that confusion for us. I'd like to ask the Minister of Finance what her defini- tion of revenue-neutral is. Is it a tax shift or a shifty tax? Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Hon. C. Taylor: Ah, very clever. As the opposition would know thoroughly, I will make no comments on the budget until tomorrow. Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition has a supplemental. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. C.

James: I'm actually not asking the Minister of Finance to speak specifically about what might be in

9734 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, FEBRUARY 18, 2008 the budget tomorrow. I'm asking her to speak about her definition of — what she means by — revenue- neutral. She's been all over the place in her comments about the true definition of revenue-neutral. She's de- fined revenue-neutral, in fact, as a tax grab. Again, my question to the Minister of Finance: what definition of revenue-neutral is she going to use tomorrow — the one that's actually found in accounting notebooks or the one that she's made up in the last while? Hon. C. Taylor: I'll make no comments on the budget till tomorrow. Interjections. Mr.

Speaker: Members. Members. The Leader of the Opposition has a further sup- plemental. C. James: I certainly heard the Finance Minister say she can't talk specifically about the budget that's coming out tomorrow, but she certainly has raised lots of concern from families over the last month with her definition of revenue-neutral. This Finance Minister has talked about revenue-neutral as taking in a new tax and using it for special projects. So I think families deserve an answer.

They deserve an answer abou t what kind of definition the minister is using for revenue-neutral so that they know whether this government once again is going to pick their pocket tomorrow. Again to the Finance Minister…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Just take your seat for a second. Members, let's listen to the question and listen to the answer. C. James: Again, nothing to do with the budget tomorrow — a very simple, straightforward question for the Minister of Finance. What exactly is her definition of revenue-neutral? Hon. C.

Taylor: I am sort of disappointed that the opposition has no questions that they actually want to ask the government today, so I will say that in terms of the budget I will answer questions about the budget very happily not only tomorrow but for as long as the session lasts. [1355] B. Ralston: My question is for the Minister of Small Business and Revenue. In 2005 and 2006 his ministry conducted a review of the provincial sales tax. Partici- pating businesses were told that their proposals had to be revenue-neutral. Can the minister advise the House what definition of revenue-neutral he used in that review? Hon.

R. Thorpe: In fact, we conducted some 21 consultations around the province of British Columbia. The net results were 13 changes brought in, in Budget 2007, putting $120 million over three years into the pockets of individual British Columbians and small businesses. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. The member has a supplemental. B. Ralston: I'm going to ask the same question again, because there is obviously not an answer forthcoming. What definition of revenue-neutral did the minister use in the review he conducted? Hon. R.

Thorpe: I thought it was pretty clear that we conducted 20 consultations throughout the province of British Columbia. I thought I was clear that this was… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. R. Thorpe: …the most comprehensive review of the provincial sales tax in the history of the province of British Columbia, designed to streamline and simplify things. I also thought I pointed out that $120 million was put back into individuals', businesses' and small businesses' pockets in British Columbia. Mr.

Speaker, let me just remind the members on that side of the House that they voted against putting money back into British Columbians' pockets. B.C. HYDRO AND INDEPENDENT POWER PRODUCERS J. Horgan: Nothing from the ta x collector; nothing from the debt collector. Let's go to the third prize here: the Minister of Energy, responsible for B.C. Hydro. Since 2004, B.C. Hydro rates have gone up 11 percent. B.C. Hydro projects a 25 pe rcent increase between now and 2011. Can the minister confirm that his ideological fixation with private power is compromising the ability of B.C.

Hydro to manage the energy resource for all British Columbians? And will he say, now that B.C. Hydro can buy power where it finds it, to do so in the interests of ratepayers, not in the interests of your friends? Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. R. Neufeld: I'm appreciative that my critic is actually asking me a question about IPPs, when he has been going around the province telling — or spreading, I should probably say — rumours that aren't quite true. Let's go back in history a bit when…. Interjections. Hon. R. Neufeld: No, actually, they're not true.

MONDAY, FEBRUARY 18, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 9735 Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Choose your words carefully, Minister. Hon. R. Neufeld: When he was a political hack in the NDP government… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. R. Neufeld: …in the Ministry of Energy and Mines…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Through the Chair, please, Minister. Hon. R. Neufeld: It was the NDP that built the largest natural gas–fired pl ant on Vancouver Island — 250 megawatts — and signed a contract with a United States company, an independent power producer.

On top of that, they were so wise that they took the cost, and they spread it across Fred and Mary. Fred and Mary — Fred and Martha, to tell you the truth — will ac- tually have to bear the cost of the natural gas that goes into that plant. They didn't even have the wherewithal to make sure that that independent power producer had to actually absorb that kind of cost. That's how smart they were. Of all the people to stand up and complain about IPPs…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. R. Neufeld: This group has opposed…. Sit down, Member. You'll get your chance. Mr. Speaker: Take your seat, please.

Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. [1400] Hon. R. Neufeld: This group has opposed every green power project in the province of British Columbia — every one of them. They have opposed it unilaterally in here and out on the street. That's unacceptable. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. We want to hear the ques- tion and hear the answer. The member has a supplemental. J. Horgan: I had ten cents on how long it would take to get to the 1990s, and I just lost it because I thought you'd give it a little bit more time than that.

If we could harness the hot air that comes out of that minister, we'd have more megawatts than we'd know what to do with. I realize this isn't a mutual admiration society, but a modicum of respect to ratepayers on that side of the House is in short supply. That's for sure. Will the minister stand in this place and for once defend British Columbians, instead of independent power producers, and defend the people who built B.C. Hydro, the best Crown corporation in Canada? You guys have wrecked it in six short years. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Just wait. Members. Just take your seat, please. Take your seat.

Members, Members. Hon. R. Neufeld: Let's go to a little bit of history. I know it bothers the member over there, but let's…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Take your seat. Just sit down. Hon. R. Neufeld: Okay, we'll just take some more time. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. R. Neufeld: If they are so opposed to inde- pendent power producers, why in 1996…? That was the dark decade, remember, Member. Interjection. Mr. Speaker: Member. Hon. R. Neufeld: B.C. Hydro purchased $89 million from IPPs. Can you tell me why, if they're so bad? Mr. Speaker: Member, through the Chair. Hon. R. Neufeld: In 1997 B.C.

Hydro purchased $90 million worth of electricity from IPPs. In 1998 B.C. Hydro purchased $114 million from IPPs, and in 1999, $105 million. It's hard to understand how in the 1990s it was okay for that group of misfits to actually purchase elec- tricity from IPPs, but toda y there's something wrong with it. Mr. Speaker: Just take your seat for a second. I want people to be very careful in how they choose their words. I want members to listen to the question and listen to the answer. If we want to continue with

9736 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, FEBRUARY 18, 2008 question period, we're going to show a little bit of a sign of respect for both sides. TRANSLINK BOARD REMUNERATION AND TRANSIT RATES M. Karagianis: My question today is for the Minis- ter of Transportation. While transit fares in British Co- lumbia have increased to being the highest in Canada, the minister's handpicked TransLink board has met in secret and given themselves a pay raise that amounts to half a million dollars — dollars that should have gone into transit fares rather than their pockets.

Will the minister confirm today that he will roll back those inflated wages? Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. K. Falcon: I guess I'm left wondering if indeed the writers across the way really are on strike, because I got this question last time. Anyhow, I'm happy to answer it again for the benefit of the members opposite.

The members will know that a special committee chaired by former New De mocratic Premier Mike Harcourt made a recommendation to the TransLink board — the new professional board — to receive compensation based upon what similar authorities like the Vancouver Airport Authority or the Fraser Port Authority would be earning. I get that it's a lot of money for average folks, but we're asking them to be responsible for their

part in implementing the largest transit investment package in the history of the province. [1405] Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. M. Karagianis: Currently in British Columbia we have the highest transit fares in the country — $10 for a rider to go from Surrey to downtown and back. That is more than a lot of people earn on the minimum wage in this province today. This government has sanctioned their handpicked TransLink board to have a 500 percent pay increase. My question to the minister was whether he would step in and roll back those inflated wages.

I would ask him to take a further step to roll back transit fares and make them affordable here in the province of British Columbia. Hon. K. Falcon: Well, I guess I'll have to put it on the record, because that's twice now that this member has stood up and talked about TransLink having the highest fares in the country. That is absolutely false. I just wish for once you would do your homework, Member. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Minister, through the Chair. Hon. K.

Falcon: Again, the research department of the NDP, as always, is letti ng their members stand up and make fools of themselves in front of the public. I'll put it on the record. Montreal and Toronto charge $2.75 for a basic one- zone fare; Metro Vancouver, $2.50; in Ottawa, $3. It's cheapest, actually, here. Then the member says, "What about the ride from Surrey to Vancouver?" — which I just took this morning, by the way. Member, I'd invite you to take SkyTrain once in a while. You might learn a thing or two.

If the member wants to know what the equivalent is in Montreal, it's about $9.50 for the same 40-kilometre distance. If the member wants to know what the equiva- lent is in Toronto for the same 40-kilometre distance, it's about $6.50. It's more than what it is here. We have a great transit system in the lower mainland of British Columbia. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. FERRY FARES G. Coons: My question is to the Minister of Trans- portation — or minister of miscalculations, it seems.

Over the past three months I've visited 23 ferry com- munities and heard the stories of this government's abandonment and neglect of those people that live in ferry-dependent communiti es. Since 2003 the fares have skyrocketed and will climb by over 130 percent by 2011. Will the minister finally, finally take a leadership role with this file and freeze fares? Hon. K. Falcon: The fact of the matter is that the B.C. government provides over $130 million a year in subsidies — a number that has gone up every year to make sure that we keep rates as affordable as possible for ferry-dependent communities.

I might add that they voted against every sing le one of those increases that were in the budget. Let me just say this. I get that fuel prices have gone up dramatically. There's no question. Every industry is affected, whether it's airlines, taxis, buses or ferries. I wish I could pretend th ere was a magic answer to all that, but the fact of the matter is that we now have a ferry system that's investing hundreds of millions of dollars in replenishing their fleet and investing in termi- nals.

They're providing a better level of service and more reliability in terms of the service and are doing it very, very efficiently in terms of managing the organization. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. G. Coons: I note that the minister didn't mention that the provincial subsidy didn't go up for four years, and it was the federal subsidy that was going up. Ob- viously, the minister is totally out of touch with ferry- dependent communities. Brit ish Columbians deserve a

MONDAY, FEBRUARY 18, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 9737 real response from this minister. But last Thursday all he had to say about ferry users' concerns was: "Boo hoo." It's in Hansard, hon. Speaker. If the minister won't answer my first question, maybe he can tell us this: what exactly did he mean by "boo hoo"? Hon. K. Falcon: I guess I'm going to have to provide a bit of a history lesson for the member. What the member apparently forgets is that during the '90s, fares went up over 70 percent. The difference, of course, is this. They blew half a billion dollars on three ferries that didn't work at all.

They bankrupted the corporation with over a billion dollars' worth of debt that had to be written off. The corporation did not invest in a ferry fleet, which had an average age of 42 years. It su ffered from political inter- ference of every possible sh ape imaginable, and they essentially wrecked the ferry system. [1410] We now have a ferry system that we can be proud of again in British Columbia and that is running well. It's being invested in. The fleet is being rejuvenated, and we are not going to interfere the way they used to interfere day after day after day in the ferry system of British Columbia. C.

Trevena: The Minister of Transportation is showing that he is arrogant and out of touch with reality — the reality for families who live on the islands, families who are being forced from their homes because they cannot afford the fares, families who are seeing a com- plete neglect of what is our marine highway, which does connect our communities. In my constituency fares have doubled since his government has taken office. Wages haven't doubled. People cannot cope with thes e increases.

So I ask the Minister of Transportation not to have a dismissive sneer, not to be dismissive and just go, "Boo hoo," but to commit to the people of British Columbia, to commit to the people who live on the islands that he will freeze the ferry fares. Hon. K. Falcon: Actually, the member should know that fuel prices have gone up, and in every sector where fuel prices have gone up, people have had to pay in- creases. I wish fuel prices weren't going up. I wish there was a world in which we could pretend there's not a reality out there that fuel prices are increasing. I'll say this to the member.

The amount of subsidy that taxpayers are providing for ferry-dependent communities is the greatest it's ever been in history. Just for the Islands Trust area alone — $55 million a year for 25,000 people. That's $55 million each and every year. And we provide additional subsidy for those that are medically at risk, for seniors, for school trips, etc., of over $20 million a year. We're doing our bit to protect those that are most vulnerable, but we're also recognizing that it is a difficult environment with th e increasing cost of fuel escalation in British Columbia. ICBC RATE STRUCTURE H.

Lali: While the Minister of Finance has been talking about revenue neutrality, average families here are facing real hardship due to this government's ongoing shameless cash grabs. You know, this government's new ICBC rate structure is hitting Metro Vancouver families especially hard, where the rates will increase up to 6 percent. On top of that, there are unjustified new fees for additional young drivers and arbitrarily imposed higher penalties for traffic violations. While it makes record profit, ICBC is gouging even more revenue straight out of the pockets of average British Columbians.

However, most families are actually paying more, not less — especially good drivers. My question is to the mi nister responsible for ICBC. How can the minister justify this shameless cash grab, and how does this fit into revenue neutrality? Hon. J. Les: I think this is my first opportunity to welcome the member opposite out of the penalty box. He…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. J. Les: We'll all recall that he spoke his mind last year, and for his trouble he was banished for a period of time. But I'm glad to see him back. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Whoa, whoa. J. Horgan: I withdraw, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker: Continue, Solicitor General. Hon. J. Les: I think it's important to recognize that the management of ICBC today is much, much improved over what we had in the 199 0s. In the 1990s we indeed had an insurance corporatio n that was nothing but a political plaything for the government of that day. Today ICBC is being run professionally according to sound economic and actuarial principles. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. H.

Lali: Well, if there's anybody who should be in the penalty box, it ought to be the minister responsible for ICBC, for tax gouging. [1415] Let me repeat again for the hon. minister that fami- lies are getting gouged, and ICBC is making more revenue from insurance rates and additional fees from families and good drivers. However, safe drivers are not getting the benefits that they deserve, especially if they are living in places like Burnaby and Surrey and other parts of Metro Vancouver. This isn't revenue neu- trality; it's a shameless cash grab.

9738 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, FEBRUARY 18, 2008 Again, my question is to the minister responsible for ICBC. What is this minister going to do to help average families and safe drivers with these out-of- control costs being imposed on them by this uncaring government? What is the minister going to do to actually lower the cost for people who are safe drivers, especially in this province, in the face of record profits which are actually going into the pockets of upper and middle management in the way of incentives? None of these are actually going towards the reduction of rates for insurance purposes.

Hon. J. Les: Well, there's a reason why there is more premium revenue in ICBC today. It's because there's a booming economy in British Columbia. There are a lot more vehicles out there. As ICBC adjusts the prem iums that are charged to individual motorists, it's focusing particular attention on only those 5 percent of drivers who have dangerous driving records. The 95 percent of British Columbians who drive safely, who don't have an extensive claims record…. For those people the rates are going to tend to stay the same or go down. That's guaranteed because these rates are not going to be politically manipulated.

The corporation is in fact accountable to the Utilities Commission, so those rates are set, as I said previous ly, based on economic and actuarial principles. FUNDING FOR SEXUAL ABUSE INTERVENTION PROGRAM N. Simons: The Mary Manning Centre is under threat of closure once again due to this government's refusal to provide it with stable funding so it can help young chil- dren who've been victims of sexual abuse. The funding situation, in fact, is so bleak that staff therapists are plan- ning to use their vacation time to go on a little bikeathon across lower Vancouver Island.

Unfortunately, this speaks volumes about this government's priorities. My question is to the Minister of Children and Family Development. Will he commit to funding this centre and others like it appropriately to meet the needs of children who've been victims of sexual abuse? Hon. T. Christensen: Members may recall that the funding for the sexual abuse intervention program, which funds the Mary Manning Centre, has not in- creased since the program was initiated in the early 1990s.

So notwithstanding ten years in government, members of the opposition chose at that time not to pay any attention to sexual abuse victims and increase the funding for counselling support, similarly to them not taking any effort to increase resources for children and youth suffering mental health issues. This government has doubled the funding to sup- port children and youth with mental health…. That's resulted in over 90 percent more children and youth receiving services over the course of the last five years.

We have been involved in a review of the sexual abuse intervention program, and I'm happy to say that that program can expect sign ificant additional funding resources as we implement stronger standards and accountability and consistency for the sexual abuse intervention program. Over the coming weeks we will be determining how that funding will be allocated among the 49 agencies around the province that do this important work. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. N. Simons: Y e s , c r e d i t t o t h e f o r m e r g o v e r n m e n t for introducing a program like this.

Unfortunately, it's suffered from the lack of funding from this govern- ment. It's had a lot of time to put some funding into these programs. These are littl e children in this prov- ince who are victims of sexual abuse. It's not something that should be delayed or hidden from the public. So my question once again to the minister is: can he guarantee that program funding for sexual abuse in- tervention will in fact meet the needs of the province? [1420] Hon. T.

Christensen: I can certainly understand the members advocating for additional services for victims of sexual abuse, much as members on this side have advocated as well, in particular for the Mary Manning Centre. But what I find hard to accept is the absolute hypocrisy of members who had ten years in govern- ment in this province to pay a little bit of attention to sexual abuse victims. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. T. Christensen: I n f a c t , t h e M a r y M a n n i n g Centre in 1999 — $126,000. In the year 2000 — $248,000. This last year — $314,000 to the Mary Manning Centre.

This government recognized that we needed to improve services to children and youth with mental health issues. That includes victims of sexual abuse. We are doing that. We will be adding significant addi- tional resources, something that those members failed to do for ten whole years. [End of question period.] C. Puchmayr: I seek leave to make an introduction. Mr. Speaker: Proceed. Introductions by Members C. Puchmayr: The New Westminster school district's business company is hosting four English-Chinese from Zhejiang province in Wenzhou, China.

Would the House please welcome Kathy Zhao, Lillian Yu, April Zhang and Haddie Chen, as well as the general manager and the executive assistant, Valerie Martinick and Cindy Tang. Please make them welcome.

MONDAY, FEBRUARY 18, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 9739 Point of Privilege B. Simpson: I rise to address a point of privilege I registered this morning. During the debate on the softwood motion this morning, the member for Maple Ridge–Mission argued that I had effectively flip-flopped on my response to the softwood lumber deal. The basis of his argument was a quote from the Revelstoke Times that he attributed to me. In fact, that statement was made by another MLA. Earlier in the debate the member from Kootenay East had actually used the exact same statement and attributed it to the correct MLA. The evidence is there in the

article from the Revelstoke Times , and I ask the member for Maple Ridge–Mission to withdraw his claim that, based on the evidence he presented, I flip-flopped on the softwood lumber agreement. R. Hawes: I have a copy of the

article that was in question. It is, in fact, very confusing in that there are some things attributed to the member for Cariboo North, and then immediately after those comments, it says: "It is my obligation to speak for the mills in my area, and flawed or not, this deal is a good resolution for them." When you read the article, it would appear it was stated by the member for Cariboo North, but I will accept what he says. Clearly, the author of this

article perhaps inserted this in the wrong pl ace. It should have been attributed, I guess, to the member from Revelstoke, who for once on the other side does appreciate the importance of the softwood lumber agreement. So to the extent that you've said that, I will withdraw my comments. C. Wyse: Petition, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: Proceed. Petitions C. Wyse: From the staff at Williams Lake Seniors Village supporting and encouraging the provincial government to appoint a seniors advocate to deal with seniors issues, rather than the present system. Orders of the Day Hon.

M. de Jong: I call continued debate on the throne speech. [1425] Throne Speech Debate (continued) M. Sather: It's my pleasure to respond to the throne speech. The throne speech had a number of references to sustainability within the realm of climate change, and I understand we're going to hear more about that tomorrow. But I didn't hear anything in the throne speech talking about sustainability of the resources of this province, such as the resources that are repre- sented by the crown jewel of our Crown corporations, B.C. Hydro.

What we're seeing instead is a greenwashing of a presentation with regard to independent power pro- ducers with regard to a number of other claims that the government is making. What in fact we're seeing is the privatization of B.C. Hydro, and what we're seeing is the disenfranchisement of the people of this province who've been represented ably by their Crown corpora- tion for some considerable time. The throne speech said that consumers will be given new tools to save money on their power bills. Well, they better hope that's the case, because what they're seeing now is exactly the opposite.

They're seeing their power bills going up — and going up very, very steeply. B.C. Hydro has an application in right now, as was referenced just recently in this House, to increase the power rates by 11 percent over the next three years. But their projections, in fact, are for 25 percent — a 25 per- cent increase in the power rates to the people of this province. Largely, and in many respects, this can be attributed to the energy policies of this government.

We have the IPP power coming online, which this government is beholden to and is encouraging to the detriment of British Columbians, and which is going to raise the rates even further than that. The 2000 request by B.C. Hydro for IPP power, the independent power producers — the private power producers — will raise the rates an additional 8 percent alone. So the people of British Columbia have real cause to be concerned about where this government is taking B.C. Hydro. What we're seeing is an absolute gold rush of independent power producers in the way of so-called run-of-the-river projects.

I think when most people heard run-of-the-river a few years ago, they thought they were what I thought they were: a turbine in the middle of a river. The water runs through it and produces power. Sounds very benign, but that's not at all what th ese projects are. These are private river diversion projects, and they are diverting streams in vast numbers in this province and not just short distances — three, five and ten kilometres and more. There are nearly 500 streams in this province that are under application for water licences for these private river diversion projects.

There's no public process in place anymore where the people of this province can evaluate whether or not these projects are in the best interests of this province. There are 200 companies involved, a lot of whom are affiliated one with the other. When you look into it, you will see that they have a lot of connections. [S. Hammell in the chair.] It was said earlier in this House that IPPs were around in the '90s, and they were. The Minister of Energy mentioned purchases of $90 million in '97, $94 million in '98 and $105 million in '99. That's for a total of $285 million.

Well, what we're looking at is an en- tirely different magnitude of involvement with IPPs now.

9740 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, FEBRUARY 18, 2008 In 2007 B.C. Hydro and the people of British Columbia are on the hook for $28.4 billion in hydro from independent power producers. That is a lot of cash, and the problem is not having…. It's not about the IPPs themselves. If they 're regulated in terms of their environmental effect — and that's a whole other subject that I don't have time to go into right now — and if there's a competition with B.C. Hydro for that hydro, then it's a different ma tter. But this is definitely open season for these folks, and they're going at it flat out, understandably.

There's tons of money to be made. [1430] The Minister of Energy says: "Oh, not to worry. This is only 0.01 percent of the streams in British Columbia that could conceivably be used for IPPs." But in fact, nearly all of them that are economically feasible in the near future, at least, are being claimed. These water rights, which are the rights, again, of the people of British Columbia, are being given away for a song. The water licences, the rentals — the ancil- lary costs for the IPPs to produce these river diversion projects amount to about 3 percent only of the income that they achieve.

Water, as we know, is becoming an increasingly valuable resource in this century. With climate change happening, with global warming, water is going to become even more essential to all of us. So it's important that the government, on behalf of the people of B.C., steward that resource carefully. But in fact, that's not what happens. The value of the water, the people's resource, is not even considered as an economic value when these licences are given out. Contracting and privatization go together. Of course, B.C.

Hydro has been forced, through this gov- ernment, to contract out a third of their workforce — in terms of customer services, administration and so on — to Accenture corporation. Many people will be familiar with Accenture, but probably a lot aren't. It's a Bermuda-based company. That's a nice tax shelter arrangement. This is a corporation that the state of California refused to deal with.

This is a corporation that is an offshoot of the Arthur Ande rsen consulting company, which was part of Enron and faced obstructing justice charges as a result, along with a number of other folks that were so charged — Ken Lay, Mr. Fastow, and on and on. This is the organization, though, that we're putting in charge of a lot of our crown jewel, B.C. Hydro. Enron, people will remember, is the organization that brought the electrical system of California into chaos — rolling blackouts and brownouts, and the way they operated to force contractors to stop producing power, only to drive the prices up.

What we're seeing, unfortunately, is our crown jewel, in B.C. Hydro, passing from public hands to private hands. You'll notice that what this government and a lot of people that speak for this government do…. In order to sort of facilitate this change over, there's been a process of vilifying B.C. Hydro. Saying that it was run-down, and we had to privatize it, is basically what it amounts to. That's the same logic we hear being used with our extended care homes. "Oh, the ones in place were run down, so we had to bring in the privatized companies." That's happening, for example, in my community.

Now, the government mand ated that these independ- ent power producers, through the run-of-the-river projects and the wind projects, can only be done privately. They can't be done by the people's corporation any longer. How did the government come to the decision that they should switch from having the people's corporation doing it to having private individuals and corporations doing it? Did they produce any studies that show that it's justified? No, they didn't. What we're seeing here is that it's like renting instead of owning.

By the time we're finished the long-term contract with a private producer for power…. We don't own the resource after that. They own it. So the people of this province, through this government's energy policies, are moving from owners to renters. [1435] B.C. Hydro could be involved in developing these alternative sources of energy, and we would then be keeping the money in British Columbia. B.C. Hydro, being large, has the benefit of working with the econo- mies of scale that a large organization can.

Instead, what we see this government doing is that in January of this year the Premier and the Energy Minister passed an order-in-council that's going to make borrowing rates for B.C. Hydro, which has the effect of making it more profitable for the private producers. Everything is being manufactured to their benefit and not to the benefit of the people of British Columbia. B.C. Hydro also, of course, has the benefit of being able to manage the whole grid in a unified way. With power production in the United States — that's some of the independent private power production — it's not done in a unified way.

That has led to a lot of the prob- lems, and we don't want to see that happen here. Another troubling trend, along with privatization, is the integration of our energy system — our grid here in British Columbia — with the grid in the United States. The American policy is a continent-wide marketplace based on privatization. They are developing what they call standard market designs through the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, or FERC. Regional transmis- sion organizations, or RTOs, are the managers of the resource. The RTO in our case is called Grid West. That's in the northwestern United States.

FERC's mandate down there in the United States is that all provinces that want to export power into the United States should have to adopt the U.S. system. We should be clear that there are no international rules that say we have to adopt the American system, and we shouldn't be. But the Inde pendent Power Producers Association of B.C. and Alcan are encouraging this province and this government to join and to integrate with Grid West. I don't doubt that the government is going to assist in doing that. What happens then, with that integration with the U.S. market? Who gets to export power to the United

MONDAY, FEBRUARY 18, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 9741 States and how much they get to export will be regu- lated by the RTOs — by the American government under their regulatory body — not by us. The IPPs will have the option of selling power to the United States. I know when I talked about this to one of the private river diversion projects — the so-called run-of- the-river projects — in our neck of the woods over in Maple Ridge, he said: "Oh no, we want to sell locally." Well, that's not what they want. In fact, they want to sell at the highest price.

If it happens to be in British Columbia, then that's where it's going to go. But if it's in the United States, then it's going to go there. With this kind of system that this government, with the IPPs, is setting up, we are going to be competing with the United States for power. We're going to pay more, and we're seeing that start to happen already. So we should be standing up. This government should be standing up for our power and for British Columbians — standing up to the United States and not cooperating with them in undermining our system.

In fact, the power over our power is being ceded to the United States, and that's a concern. Just like California was at the mercy of Enron, we're going to be at the mercy of the IPPs. Another key part of the U.S.-B.C. plan involves separating the electricity-tr ansmitting part from the producing part. The sole purpose of that is to make the export easier for the private producers. The government says that's a process of non-discrimination. They call that non-discrimination — that B.C. Hydro shouldn't be able to discriminate against in dependent power producers.

But the people of British Columbia are being discrimi- nated against in the process, and the government should remember who they serve. [1440] Our transmission corporation, the B.C. Transmis- sion Corporation, is not answerable to B.C. Hydro. You know, there's also an advantage to having BCTC remain a Crown corporation, which it is. It's that when the IPP power fully comes into play, there's going to be a lot of need for new lines to export this power to the United States. Guess who's going to get to build those lines and pay for them. We will, Madam Speaker, through BCTC.

It's a golden deal for the IPPs, and it's one that a lot of British Columbians are becoming aware of and are realizing that there's real cause for concern. The government says that their strategy is about providing security of supply, but in fact that's not what we're seeing. We're seeing them surrendering our interests to those of the IPPs. The energy purchase agreements, the lucrative en ergy purchase agreements that the government is making with the IPPs, are 20 to 40 years in length. As I said , when these expire, then the IPP is free and clear to export their power should they want to.

American companies are buyi ng into our IPPs at an increasing rate too. GE, for example — General Electric — recently bought 49 percent of Plutonic Power, which is in the process of building a large facility at Toba Inlet up the mainland coast. They've since lent $40 million to get that going. With more involvement of American companies in our power-producing structure, the investor rights of NAFTA kick in. That's something that we also need to be concerned about in terms of maintaining security of the supply. The government says it's about security of supply.

That's not moving in the direction of security of supply. We've seen this privatization happen in the gas industry already. Not long ago we saw Terasen being bought out by Kinder Morg an. That's Richard Kinder, by the way, who's also associated with Enron. This government had nothing to say about that whatsoever and were happy to see it go. Apparently, Westcoast Ener gy has also been bought out by Duke Energy of North Carolina. It's happened. The deregulation has happened in the oil and gas industry, and now the government is looking to make it happen in our electricity grid as well.

The government denies that they're privatizing B.C. Hydro, but people of British Columbia will re- member, too, that they denied flatly that they were s e l l i n g B . C . R a i l . W e k n o w t h a t ' s i n f a c t w h a t t h e y did. In fact, that's what's happening here. Through Accenture and through the IPPs they're privatizing B.C. Hydro. The IPPs — their association claims that privatizing our electrical grid is going to lead to more investment and lower prices. Well, B.C. Hydro invests in British Columbia, so the money stays here.

But the IPPs are increasingly foreign-owne d, and the money doesn't stay here. B.C. Hydro also has some of the lowest prices on electricity in North America. I don't think the IPPs and the price they're getting it…. It's not going to be the case that we're going to be getting lower rates, and we see that is in fact not what's happening at all. Privatization in the United States has not lowered the rates. The IPP power is expensive, as I mentioned. In 2003 B.C.

Hydro paid as much to buy the 10 percent of power that they need, which they got from the IPPs, as they paid for the other 90 percent that they produced themselves. The contracts, the power purchase agreements, are now going for up to $88 a megawatt hour for IPPs. Well, the U.S. Department of Energy and others have said that by 2018 the power is worth about $50 a megawatt hour, so they're extremely lucrative for these organizations. [1445] B.C. Hydro is contract ing out for a lot more power all the time. In 2006 they made a call for p o w e r , a n d t h e n i t w e n t u p b y f o u r o r f i v e t i m e s .

There's a real gold rush going on out there. There's a lack of oversight, and people have real cause to be concerned. We have huge financial obligations to the IPPs. They're considered off-book by the government. They're not part of the long-term debt, but they will be paid by British Columbians through higher rates and through fewer services for the people of British Columbia. The people of B. C., through the energy

9742 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, FEBRUARY 18, 2008 purchasing agreements, are financing the construction of assets that will belong to someone else. The IPPs are also using B.C. Hydro to increase their profits. They want to use the storage in the dams that B.C. Hydro has built to turn their non-fixed energy. In other words, it comes in, in the spring during the spring freshet largely, and it 's gone. You have to use it as it comes,

whereas of course if you store it in a dam, it's then fixed. That may be all right in low-water years when B.C. Hydro has room in their dams, but in high-water years, i f t h e y d o t h i s i n o r d e r t o m a k e s t o r a g e r o o m f o r t h e IPPs, B.C. Hydro will have to spill water. That's water that could be used for export, to put more into social programs and other programs for the people of British Columbia. Right now B.C. Hydro is using their storage to sell when the price is high, and that makes a lot of sense.

Again, if a storage of IPP power essentially goes into these dams, investor righ ts again can kick in with NAFTA. They have the title, I guess, in their own minds, to continue that. The IPPs have been clear about their intent to export. Their association said that making dam storage available to B.C. IPPs might improve their chances of building for the export market. There's another concern that British Columbians are more and more beginning to have about these projects.

These so-called run-of-the-river projects are going to be able to deny — and in fact, already are denying — access by British Columbians to their valleys, to their rivers. Where the generator is situated oftentimes is in a narrow valley where there's one road up the valley, and that can be bought fee si mple by the IPP. Then if you want to go into the valley, which still nominally belongs to British Columbia, you will have to have their say-so.

In fact, even though they haven't got some of them — and we've witnessed this in the Ashlu already — fee simple, they're already trying to prevent people from going into Crown land, which belongs to the people of British Columbia. Its recreational users particularly have something to be concerned about that. Madam Speaker, I'm going to have to skip a little bit of what I was going to say, but there's a lot more that could be said about this. To summarize, the IPPs are driving up…. By con- tracting out a third of the workforce, they're privatizing B.C. Hydro.

They're opening transmission lines to the IPPs for export. They're su bsidizing IPPs with B.C. Hydro assets and granting ex orbitant energy purchase agreements. They're destroying B.C. Hydro's role as a driver of economic activity in British Columbia and a supplier of affordable energy. They are allowing long- term private power exports to undermine our long-term energy security, and they're increasing the foreign control of B.C.'s electrical system. The IPPs are touted often as green energy. As I say, there's a lot I could say abou t that, but I don't think I'm going to have the time to go into that today.

Another area that I wanted to talk about a little bit, which was in the throne speech…. The throne speech claims that supports for women fleeing abusive relationships have all been enhanced. Ouch. That cer- tainly isn't the case in my experience. Before I had this job, I worked in the field of treating men who have been in abusive relationship s, and what I saw was that the policy had changed from holding those men to account for their actions to oftentimes giving them a way out and letting them off.

That's certainly not the way to deal with the problem. [1450] There used to be a policy in the previous govern- ment that you got charged if you abused your spouse, but now that's not the case. This government also cut out the funding to women's centres, which do a lot of the behind-the-scenes work and assistance for women who have been in abusive relationships. They cut victim assistance funding as well. In addition to that — and I had a friend who worked in this area — the programs for men who are abusive to their partners has been abandoned in the provincial correctional facilities.

In fact, pretty well all program- ming in our correctional facilities has been abandoned. So I don't know how the government can say, in the face of what's actually take n place, unfortunately, that they're enhancing services for women who have been abused. That's not what I've seen. Another thing that the government mentioned is the program Trees for Tomorrow. It includes urban afforestation, planting more trees in the urban envi- ronment. But B.C. Hydro's po licy is cutting down trees in Maple Ridge.

That's what I see, and I've talked to the Energy Minister about it and will probably have a chance to talk to him some more about it. What we see on the ground doesn't accord with what it says in here — that there are going to be trees for tomorrow. I see the "trees for tomorrow" in my community being cut down by B.C. Hydro, who used to trim the trees. Now they just cut them down. It's easier, and it's cheaper, I guess. But it's not in the best interest of a climate change approach, and it's not in the best interest for the beautification of my community. I imagine others have suffered the same thing.

The Forests Minister mentioned that their forest management practices are second to none. I'm not sure what he can be referring to there. Maybe it's second to none in closing mills, because we've seen a plethora of those. I'm very concerned about the mill in my town, which has recently been threatened with closure frequently. Hammond Cedar is a strong employer in our commu- nity. We want it to continue. The folks that work there have little faith that Interf or is committed to keeping Hammond Cedar going. They've seen Interfor shipping raw logs across the line and building mills in the United States.

They have a lot to be concerned about. It seems to me that the Minister of Forests is excel- ling in real estate development but not forestry management. I know he has a background in that area, so maybe he knows of which he speaks when it comes to real estate. As far as managing the forest resources of British Columbia, we have a lot to be concerned in that regard.

MONDAY, FEBRUARY 18, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 9743 I think I'll conclude my remarks there and pass on to the member. R. Hawes: That was an interesting — if not perhaps lacking in some facts — little diatribe. Before I go into my comments on the throne speech, I just want to correct a couple of the comments my col- league was making in his speech. I guess I'll start with a couple of the latter things he said first. I didn't get a chance to write them all down. He talked about when the NDP were government, they would charge those who would abuse women, and somehow the government doesn't do that anymore.

Well, the government doesn't charge people. It's actually Crown counsel that makes these decisions. It's not the government that goes out and charges people. [1455] The second thing he talked about was cutting trees down and Hydro's policy of cutting trees down in Maple Ridge. In fact, this member wrote some letters complaining about some cottonwood trees being cut down on a dike that was protecting people's property from flooding because it would interfere with the raptors in the trees that were sitting there look ing for food, I suppose.

The truth is that if you don't cut cottonwoods out of dikes, the dikes are compromised, and you'll lose them. In terms of Hydro cutting down trees, obviously trees around hydro lines create a public danger, and they have to cut them down. Actually, in terms of shipping raw logs from Hammond Cedar, raw cedar logs, particularly off Crown land, do not get shipped out of this province. So I don't see raw logs, as he explained — and I think that's what he said — being shipped out of this province. I want to speak for just a moment about the com- ments about IPPs.

First, I want to delve into a little bit of history about B.C. Hydro. When the big assets of B.C. Hydro were built years and years ago by the Bennett government — by "Wacky" Bennett, as he's called affec- tionately — those were a lasting legacy for everyone in British Columbia. For many, many years — I'm not going to just say it was the 1990s, because it went on before the 1990s — B.C. Hydro has been looked upon as a piggy bank by previous governments. Everything that could be taken from B.C. Hydro was taken and put into gen- eral revenue by preceding governments. As a result, B.C.

Hydro was not allowed to or did not have the capital to reinvest in itself to create more hydro gen- eration, nor did it have an opportunity or the funds to invest in transmission li nes. In fact, when we took government in 2001, very shortly thereafter we got reports of just how bad the transmission lines were in this province. We are taking steps to make sure that reinvestment in B.C. Hydro and in its as sets, which are protected by legislation, can be made.

At the same time, we recog- nize the debt that Hydro carries, and creating more debt by building things like the run-of-the-river pro- jects is perhaps not first and foremost. It's not B.C. Hydro's forte; it is the fo rte of the IPPs. During the 1990s and probably before then, we did rely on some independent power production. And yes, there will be more. The member opposite says — and he attributed a comment to one of the ministers — that 0.01 percent of the creeks and waterways in this province were going to be dedicated to IPPs. The fact is that it's 0.001, which is a significant difference.

It's about a thousandth, you know. But give or take a thousand placements, what's the difference when you're making a bunch of statements that don't have to have too much accuracy to them? Let's talk about things like water leases and the fact that basically the water is being given away. We're getting a very low price. In fact, we're getting millions of dollars from the water leases over time, year after year. We are getting power from the IPPs, which is not what's known as firm power. This is power that relies on the flow of the watercourse.

If you have a winter that doesn't have a lot of snowpack and the water vol- ume is down, then there is no power production, or it's reduced. It is a risky business. I know that the members opposite hate anything to do with private enterprise. Everything in the world should be in the hands of the public. When I listen to this kind of stuff, I have these visions of these people sitting around in a room trying to guess what these evil enemies are doing — you know, these people who are in private business. What must they be doing to line their pockets?

It defies logic to think that the govern- ment should be the ones who invest in everything. Madam Speaker, the opposition talks a lot about the price that's being paid for power from IPPs and how that will drive up prices. Well, if you're relying on the prices that we could use or that we were fortunate enough to be able to have — based on the assets built by "Wacky" Bennett, if that's the base price that you're setting — frankly, you're never going to stay there.

There is new production necessary, there are new costs attributable to that, and there are new energy demands. [1500] We are now a net importer of power. We can either move to where we are energy self-sufficient, or as the opposition suggests, we can move to relying on or con- tinuing to rely on offshore power. We can import, from Alberta and the United States, coal-fired or gas-generated power, not green power. That flies in the face of the climate change policy this government has laid forward, which frankly, I happen to believe is a good policy, a sound policy.

It's one, though, that demands that we move from the old way of producing power — coal- generated without sequestration of the greenhouse gases. The NDP really are speaking out of both sides of their mouth here. They claim to be on the side of the environment, yet they want the purchase of power from outside of British Columbia. From my way of looking at what they're doin g, they're trying to suck and blow at the same time. But that's pretty typical of the way they've operated for many, many years. Accenture, the Bermuda-based company….

In fact, Accenture is a British Columbia–registered company that pays its taxes in British Columbia, that employs British Columbians who also pay taxes. If the members

9744 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, FEBRUARY 18, 2008 opposite took the time to read the legislation that cre- ated the Accenture agreement, they would soon find out that there is, in fact, a profit-sharing agreement. As Accenture grows and takes in other…. For example, in Calgary, I believe, they've signed a contract to do the billing, etc., for a Calgary hydro company. A portion of the profits that they'll generate will attribute back to the taxpayers of British Columbia. This has got nothing to do with Enron. This has got nothing to do with Bermuda. This has got nothing to do with corporate boogeymen.

This has everything to do with a business arrangement that makes a lot of sense for British Columbians and allows Hydro to concentrate on what it's very good at doing, and that's producing electricity. One more thing. The throne speech lays out the ability for us, or our plan, to allow a look at Site C. Frankly, Site C has for many years been a difficult topic to talk about. But I can tell you that in many parts of t h i s p r o v i n c e i t w o u l d b e v e r y m u c h w e l c o m e d . I s e e my colleague from the north over there applauding that. That would be carrying on in the tradition that W.A.C.

Bennett established years and years ago. Hon. B. Penner: What's the NDP's position on Site C? R. Hawes: Well, the NDP have not ever really stated a position on Site C. If they have, it's probably anti, but I'm sure that it'll change tomorrow, as it frequently does. M. Sather: What's the Environment Minister's position? R. Hawes: We are going to do a review. And that leads to one more thing: the public process. The member opposite said there's no more public process. Well, there's an environmental review proc ess. The public has a full opportunity to participate in that process.

It is ongoing, and every single IPP is subject to this sort of environ- mental scrutiny in which the public has an opportunity to comment. I'm not quite sure where all of this comes from, other than…. That leads me to another part of what I wanted to talk about. When you're in opposition, you don't really have to delive r on anything. You can say anything. You can make up wild, crazy things that you say you're going to do, because you're never going to have to deliver on them. So when I hear all of this stuff that's, frankly, just a lot of misstatements and a lot of things that really aren't very factual….

When you boil the facts right down, what's happen- ing in the IPP world and in the other policies the government is following actually makes an awful lot of sense. I want to just mention what was going on in the…. It's still going on. Frequently, as we talk about what our policies are and we try to juxtapose those with the policies that the NDP followed in the 1990s, we hear the roar of indignation from the opposition side. "Oh, that's the '90s. That's old history. We've changed." Well, have they changed?

In the 1990s what often went on would be that new programs would be put together that would put big cost on the government but without any regard to what the ongoing obligations and consequences fiscally would be. That's why we ran into huge deficits. That's why they had to increase taxes dramatically to the businesses that provide the jo bs in this province. But they still don't get it. [1505] They say they've changed but yet…. I'll give you some examples. We have revitalized and are revitalizing the ferry fleet. That's going to make a couple of the older ferries that we have redundant.

We're not going to need them. We're going to sell th em. They may be sold for scrap. They may be sold to somebody who wants to use them, perhaps in some other country or wherever. The Leader of the Opposition is out there crying that the money that comes from that should go to reduce ferry fees. Well, that's great. That's a really good policy, but what about next year, after you've spent that money? What about the ongoing obliga tion that it creates? But they don't think about any of that.

We have put in place, starting in 2001, the obligation on the government to file not just balanced budgets by the third — and I'll talk about that in a minute, about what happened in the throne speech and how it was delivered — but three-year rolling plans. When the NDP were in power, they'd budget for a year. It was edge-of-the-page budgeting. You come to the end of the year, everything falls off, and you start fresh again. When you get a little bit of a problem in your budget, no problem.

"We'll just defer a bunch of expenses off into the next year and worry about it next year." We have instituted the provisions of GAAP. The gen- erally accepted accounting principles govern how we budget and how we report our expenditures — a massive change. The investment world is very clear in telling us they now have absolute confidence in what we are telling them about our fiscal position. It has made us one of the most attractive places in the world to invest money.

The investment dealers who come and talk to us, who actually are pretty impo rtant people because they do move a lot of money around, tell us that now the confidence is there. When the NDP was in power, money was fleeing here, and their clients were looking for places anywhere else to invest money. Today we are a target area. We are a centre where people want to invest their money because they can have confidence in what this govern- ment is doing, unlike that previous bunch. The throne speech , when it comes out, is a statement of where the government wants to go. It is a vision of where we wish to go.

In 2001 we inherited a structural deficit of over $4 billion. An Hon. Member: Five. R. Hawes: Well, five is over four. We inherited a massive structural deficit. We said we would balance the budget by the third budget out from when we took office.

MONDAY, FEBRUARY 18, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 9745 The NDP at the time, the two members of the NDP that were here, spent a great deal of time…. The mem- bers opposite, if they ever wanted to go and read Hansard back to those days, would find many state- ments by the two NDP members that were here. "It can't be done." "We won't be able to do it." "We're going to fail." "The economy is on its knees because of us," they said — and on and on and on.

The business community said: "Well, maybe now is not the time." Because there were tough measures that had to be taken to bring us to that balanced-budget posi- tion. If you live beyond your means for a long time and you get into a big hole, I don't think there are very many families in this province wh o don't understand that to get out of the hole, you've got to change your lifestyle and you've got to take a little bit of tough medicine. We took the tough medicine because we had the courage to at least dole it out when it had to be doled out. That's something the previous government couldn't do.

They continued with their spending spree while we had to look at finding ways to at least bring the spend- ing under control, create some revenues and balance our budget. We did it exactly as we said we would do. In 2005 in the throne speech we laid out the five great goals: literacy, health, social safety net, environ- ment and jobs. Every one of those had some great vision attached to it, but that was not a throne speech that said: "This is what we will do in the next 12 months." This is a vision that moves on down the road.

These are lofty goals that are difficult to achieve, that take a lot of work and a lot of vision to get to and policies that make sense. So each year subsequent to those five great goals they do guide what this government does. As we instil policies that bring us closer to achieving those five great goals, it becomes clearer and clearer, I know, to the public, because I talk to the public a great deal. They begin to really understand that we have it on the right track.

We have good control of the economy, in spite of what's going on around us. [1510] At the present time there are dangers lurking in the United States economy and in parts of the rest of Canada, a n d w e h a v e w o r k e d h a r d t o i n s u l a t e o u r s e l v e s a s a people in this province fr om those dangers. We have tried to build an economy th at is diverse enough to withstand the challenges, fo r example, that we're now facing in forestry. And we will see our way through the challenges in forestry.

But luckily, the diversity and the investment capital we've been able to reattract to this province will see us through the times that other provinces will not be so for- tunate to get through like we will. They will suffer some economic hardships that those in this province will not. I want to talk a little bit about this throne speech, then. What is advancing us to where we want to be? I'll just open to a few pages in the throne speech. To start with, we have talked and the Premier has talked for years about the sustainability of the Canada Health Act.

The five principles of the Canada Health Act miss sustainability. You can't have a health system for future generations if you can't pay for it, and with the rising costs in our health system very clearly something has to happen. That's why we had the Conversation on Health. The Conversation on Health engaged British Columbians all over this province, and we got thou- sands and thousands of submissions. As a result, we will be able to begin implementing changes that will bring sustainability. Some of those changes are out- lined in the throne speech this year.

I don't understand why these people opposite don't get these. Why don't they support…? I don't get it. I understand that they're in the opposition. I understand that their job is to oppose policy even when it's really good policy. I believe in my heart of hearts that most members on the opposite side go home in the evening and look in the mirror and say: "Golly, I wish I could have been a B.C. Liberal. I really like these policies." I truly believe that. Interjection. R. Hawes: The member from Maillardville says it's the best thing she's ever he ard.

I think she's talking about when she speaks to herself in the mirror. We are developing a Brain Research Centre that's going to take a look and work with the experts in this province. Make no mistake: we have world leaders in this province in problems like Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, dementias. We have people in this province who are world renowned, and we're building a centre for brain research to get on that problem, because it is a growing problem, as everyone knows. Everyone has someone who's been touched with Alzheimer's or dementia or Parkinson's or one of the dis- eases of aging.

As we are all getting older, clearly it's in everyone's best interest that we get on that, that we develop something that is going to actually produce good results. An investment in that is now going to happen. These investments, by the way, don't happen because the economy was being run into the ground. These investments happen when you build an econ- omy that let's you make these investments. That's what we've done. We are going to invest in a centre for hip health.

I think everybody knows what happens with seniors when they fall — a tremendous number of fractured hips leading to all kinds of complications and crushing costs. Never mind the cost to the families that are involved and the terrible consequences that the people who suffer these falls have to live through, but the cost to the health system is also staggering. We have to move to a place where we now get into preventative care.

I served for a long time on both a hospital board and on the community health committees as we looked at transitioning health care under that government to the 52 unmanageable health regions. We talked a lot about preventative health care. Government after government talked about pre- ventative health care, and the first item that ever got cut is preventative health ca re. Investment in preventa- tive health care has been talked about for years and years, and no investment.

9746 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, FEBRUARY 18, 2008 Through the Minister of State for ActNow, we are now seriously looking at a major part of preventative health care — t h a t i s , h o w t o m a k e s u r e t h a t p e o p l e exercise properly, eat prop erly and look after them- selves. That's how you prevent big health expenses down the road. We are developing now a thing called the Walking School Bus to allow kids to start walking to school in safety again.

Parents all over this province just shudder when they think of their kids walking four, five, six blocks to school. [1515] I remember when I was a kid. It was over a mile to the school, and everybody went home for lunch. And you ran home. Interjection. R. Hawes: That's what it was. You had to get up an hour before the alarm clock went off so that you could get there — on and on and on. But I do recall that as a youth everybody walked to school. There were no par- ents driving their kids. In fact, they were probably lucky if some people had cars to drive their kids to school.

The other one — and I've heard this mentioned several times in the last week — was the bike rack at the school. Until somebody mentioned that a week or so ago…. It's such a distant memory, but I recall now that the bike rack was huge at all of the schools. During the day it was crammed with bikes. They're gone. Kids are getting a ride to school with their parents. So we're also going to develop what's called a bike train and get kids back on their bikes and bring back those days when kids are actually getting a little bit of exercise going to school. They can learn how to be kids again.

I do have to say that I did listen as the Finance Committee travelled the province…. Silken Laumann came and gave a presentation about this kind of thing, and she did talk about building communities where kids are walking to school. The big thing that struck me with what she had to say was that parents get involved. Pretty soon the parents get talking to each other, and then they know each other. That's how you build com- munity. That's something that has been lacking. Children should not be subjected to secondhand smoke.

I've read a number of things lately in the news- paper columns and other places — that government shouldn't be so big and be interfering. Well, if the gov- ernment isn't going to make sure that kids are kept safe, I'm not really sure wh o will when there are still some parents out there who don't seem to get it. They smoke in their cars when their kids are there. This is the right thing to do.

I am absolutely positive, if for no other reason, that the members opposite are going to vote at the end of the day for this throne speech, because they would not want to vote against banning secondhand smoke in cars wh en kids are present. I'm sure that they would. There will be new patient quality review boards in the health regions. Over and over and over we all hear of instances where people ar e n ' t v e r y h a p p y w i t h t h e health care delivery that th ey have received, for what- ever reason, where they liv e. One of the reasons, I guess — and it is always going to be that way….

There are literally hundreds of thousands of people receiving treatments in hosp itals every single day in British Columbia. Of those hundreds of thousands of cases that are handled, there is always going to be something somewhere that doesn't go right. The people who have to live with the consequences of something that doesn't go right need to have some- where to go. Frankly, it shouldn't just be their MLA's office so they can write an e-mail and it can come up at question period. They actually need some true answers, and someone needs to take a look at what's going on.

These new patient care quality review boards will be charged with the responsibility of looking at these kinds of incidents and will, I think, provide a great deal of satisfaction in a non-political way. Foreign doctors being allowed to practise here. Internationally trained physicians will practise their specific areas under a new restricted licence. I don't know about the other members here. I know what's happening in my community. We have a shortage of specialists in my area, and the specialists that have come have difficulty getting licences even though they are fully qualified.

They have even practised in other provinces in this country, and they have difficulty here. This is going to allow them to practise to their training, and that is a wonderful thing that should have happened a long time ago. I don't think it ever could have happened under that previous government. The Health Professions Act is going to allow health professionals to practise to the extent of their training. Their scope of practice will be increased — such a sensible thing.

Pharmacists should be allowed to give renewals for standard prescriptions that people are getting over and over, and they're going to their doctors every three months for a renewal — same renewal. There's absolutely no reas on that pharmacists, who actually have far more trai ning in the dispensing of medications and understand medications…. They spend a lot more time on th at than doctors do. I think most doctors would agree that pharmacists actually are the guys who are the true sp ecialists in the dispensing of medication.

Not in diagnosing conditions, but cer- tainly, they know what all of the contraindications and all that around medicines are, and I think it's a wonderful innovation. I know it will come with regulations that will safeguard patients. [1520] Ambulance paramedics being allowed to release patients that don't need tr ansportation to the emer- gency ward. Gee, I know our paramedics are just abso- lutely first class and are quite capable of handling that. There are so many innovations in health care com- ing in this throne speech. As you go through the throne speech, page after page of good news, great policy, vision.

That's the word, I th ink, more than any other word — vision. As we went through the 1990s and we

MONDAY, FEBRUARY 18, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 9747 lived through that era — the one that they don't like to talk about; they say let's forget about it…. As you think about vision, is that a word you ever would have ap- plied to what was going on in the 1990s? I don't think so. No vision would be much, much more appropriate, yes. I am extremely proud of the throne speech. I'm ex- tremely proud that I know our government has worked in ministry after ministry after ministry to look at how we can bring our five great goals into absolute accom- plishment.

The only way we can do that is to continue year after year after year pushing great policy forward, but making sure that we have an economy that allows us to invest in the areas that need investment. What was happening in the 1990s was an absolute dereliction of any fiscal responsibility. We have created a situation now where all investors can have confi- dence, where fudge-it budget s are a thing of the past, where there is absolutely no thought that what the government is reporting is inaccurate in any way. I'm very, very proud of that.

When I look at the acco mplishments that we have made in seven years and then you compare the ten years the opposition had…. The other day someone in this House in question period heckled that we've had seven years to accomplish something and look what we've done. Well, just look what we've done. Look at the transformation in British Columbia over seven years. Look at the change in confidence in people in seven years.

Look at the confidence in the business community, even as reported by the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, where we've gone from tenth to first in Canada in terms of busi- ness confidence. That is leadership. That is vision. That is putting what we say and plan into action. We will continue to do that. I urge all members to read this carefully, vote for it, and not just that, go check with your constituents if they like what's in here. I k n o w t h e y d o . S o I w o u l d urge the NDP to get up on their feet…. I know you can't join our party.

I know you want to, but you need to stay as the opposition. At least vote for this sensible, sensible throne speech. S. Fraser: I've prepared a speech, but I have to address a few of the things that the member for Maple Ridge–Mission stated. First of all, things to be not proud of are the worst child poverty rate in the coun- try four years running; the wo rst social indicators in the country, bar none; the worst homeless record in history…. Interjections. S. Fraser: I know it's considered funny, but you guys talk to different people than we do, I guess.

The member referred to the reference to second- hand smoke in cars. Of course, I'll want to give credit where credit's due, and that 's my esteemed colleague from Nanaimo. That's his private member's bill. It's f i n e f o r i t t o b e s t o l e n b y t h i s g o v e r n m e n t i f i t g e t s i n place. If they want to take credit for it, fine, but I will give credit where it's due. IPPs.

If the member previously had actually talked to any of his constituencies or gone to the UBCM and talked to municipal leaders that this government stripped of all authority over IPPs within their jurisdic- tion, he'd know what IPPs mean to the people of British Columbia. It's privatization of our rivers. It's piratization of our rivers. [1525] Now, back to my speech.

I am proud and honoured to represent the people of Alberni-Qualicum, to fight to protect the rights of the people of Alberni-Qualicum, to fight to protect the environment of the people of Alberni- Qualicum and to fight to ensure that the future for the children of Alberni-Qualicum is a bright one. All of us in this Legislative Assembly, I believe, have an obligation to fight injustice and to speak frankly. The problem with the throne speech is the lack of frankness. The problem with the throne speech, as I see it, is not in the words. They sound pretty good.

It's got the same cover and binding as it did last year. Sounds great. The delivery — that was not the problem. I'd like to congratulate the Lieute nant-Governor. He did a yeoman's job at getting th rough a very, very lengthy throne speech. No, the problem wasn't in the words or the delivery. The problem is in the integrity of its authors. The problem is in the credibility of its authors. Now, I see the throne speech used as capstone a quote from JFK.

It says: "History and our own conscience will judge us harsher if we do no t now make every effort to test our hopes by action." It wasn't cited to JFK, but it is a quote from John F. Kennedy. I suggest that history and our own conscience will judge us harsher if we do not now make every effort to test our hopes by action. Well, that's like an epitaph for this government when it comes to throne speeches.

If you're going to pick a JFK quote, I have a better one: "The great enemy of truth is very often not the lie — deliberate, contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive an d unrealistic." That was John F. Kennedy, and it applies to this throne speech and every throne speech from this Premier and this government. History has already judged this govern- ment by showing the litany of broken promises from the throne speech and from around the throne speech. We've seen platitudes, slogans.

That's the greatest legacy of this Premier and this government, as was referred to moments ago: the golden decade, five great goals, the four As, things like forest revitalization that have destroyed forest communities — polar opposite. The people of British Columbia are getting pretty fed up with the crass politics of Liberals using slogans instead of governing or governing by spin. [Interruption.] S. Fraser: Somebody should get fined for having their cell phone on. Rather than responding to the speech, maybe we should have the Auditor General do a review and

9748 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, FEBRUARY 18, 2008 investigation that goes subsequent to it, because the Auditor General's numerous analyses that have come out recently have been impo rtant. They put in stark reality the true frailty of this government's promises and their feebleness in intent. Just look at this governme nt's other throne speeches and promises made there. When this government prom- ises making children a priority — laudable cause — what we get is the highest child poverty rate in the country, bar none. That's four years running now. Great job.

When this government's throne speech promises the most literate jurisdiction in North America, what we get is 40 percent of working-age British Columbians that lack sufficient literary sk ills to fully participate in today's workforce. We find that no one really knows what is already being spent on literacy or how much funding will be needed to reach government goals. No idea. This is not my opinion. These are the quotes from the Auditor General just several weeks ago. When we get promises of Olympic costs somewhere around $600 million, we get a reality check again from the Auditor General.

Let's put it into billions. When we get assurances of good management, referred to by the speaker before me, instead we get a convention centre expansion project with mism anagement and cost over- runs of Olympic proportions. [1530] When we get promises of protecting the public interest, we get a provinc

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0218pm 06
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0218pm 06
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	334d12f6f3732398edebea5cb280b803c9f6643a

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