Manitoba Hansard — 5 December 2006 (Sitting 14A, 38th Legislature, 5th Session)

38-5-14a

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Fifth Session - Thirty-Eighth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LVIII No. 14A – 10 a.m., Tuesday, December 5, 2006

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Eighth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation AGLUGUB, Cris The Maples N.D.P. ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital N.D.P. ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thom pson N.D.P. BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli N.D.P. BRICK, Marilyn St. Norbert N.D.P. CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CULLEN, Cliff Turtle Mountain P.C. CUMMINGS, Glen Ste. Rose P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon. Concordia N.D.P. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside P.C.

FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach P.C. HAWRANIK, Gerald Lac du Bonnet P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Garry N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. JHA, Bidhu Radisson N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster Lib. LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. The Pas N.D.P. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McFADYEN, Hugh Fort Whyte P.C.

McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. Lord Roberts N.D.P. MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River N.D.P. PENNER, Jack Emerson P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. REIMER, Jack Southdale P.C. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. ROCAN, Denis Carman P.C. RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia N.D.P. ROWAT, Leanne Minnedosa P.C. SALE, Tim Fort Rouge N.D.P. SANTOS, Conrad Wellington N.D.P. SCHELLENBERG, Harry Rossmere N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P. SMITH, Scott, Hon. Brandon West N.D.P.

STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. SWAN, Andrew Minto N.D.P. TAILLIEU, Mavis Morris P.C. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P. VACANT Kirkf ield Park

485 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, December 5, 2006 The House met at 10 a.m. PRAYER ORDERS OF THE DAY PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS House Business Hon. Dave Chomiak (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, with great thanks to the House, I wonder if there might be leave to introduce Bill 214, The Good Samaritan Protection Act. Mr. Speaker: Is there leave to introduce Bill 214, The Good Samaritan Protection Act? There is agreement? [Agreed] INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 214–The Good Samaritan Protection Act Ms. Bonnie Korzeniowski (St. James): I move, seconded by the Member for River Heights (Mr.

Gerrard), that Bill 214, The Good Samaritan Protection Act, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Ms. Korzeniowski: This bill is meant to protect Good Samaritans from lawsuits or litigation resulting from their intervention except in cases of gross negligence and to ensure that the threat of legal action does not act as a deterrent for Good Samaritans. Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] House Business Hon. Dave Chomiak (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, I wonder if there might be leave of the House to move to second reading of Bill 214. Mr.

Speaker: Is there leave to deal with second reading of Bill 214? There is agreement? Okay. [Agreed] The bill is just being printed up. As soon as it's available, it will be distributed to members, and then we'll deal with second reading of Bill 214. SECOND READINGS–PUBLIC BILLS Bill 214–The Good Samaritan Protection Act Mr. Speaker: Order. Second reading, Bill 214, The Good Samaritan Protection Act. Ms. Bonnie Korzeniowski (St. James): I'm tremendously pleased to be here– Mr. Speaker: Order. We must move the bill first before we can proceed. Ms. Korzeniowski: I move, seconded by the Member for River Heights (M r.

Gerrard), that Bill 214, The Good Samaritan Protection Act;

Loi sur l'immunité du bon samaritain, be now read a second time and be referred to a committee of this House. Motion presented. * (10:10) Ms. Korzeniowski: I'm really tremendously pleased and honoured to be introducing this bill today, and I would like to thank the members of the Assembly for their co-operation in allowing this to happen. It's always heartwarming to see partisan lines move to ensure that the best interests of all Manitobans are met. I would particularly like to thank the Member for River Heights for his co-operation and support.

He's worked long and hard for many months as well, and it's his contributions that help make this bill stronger than others in different jurisdictions in North America in that it offers protection from giving advice as well as hands-on assistance in the event of an emergency. It further enlarges the scope as it clarifies those covered under the act. This is such a wonderful bill to introduce. Manitoba is so known for volunteerism. It's nice to help protect the average citizen and keep from deterring people from helping others in distress because of any thoughts of retribution or liability.

The principles of this legislation embody the spirit of volunteerism. Given the context that December 5 was International Volunteer Day, legislation is most timely. But first I would like to talk about the spawning of the bill. A friend from a major industry here in St. James and Assiniboia, Boeing, related an incident at

486 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 5, 2006 his workplace where a co-worker in his 40s collapsed at work from a major heart attack in 2004. All stood around helpless to do anything other than make him comfortable. He died there while they looked on. Who knows if any first aid would have changed the outcome, but they never wanted to feel helpless or frustrated again while another co-worker, family member, friend, neig hbour or stranger on the street could have benefited from their help. Now, I don't know if anyone had the skill or knowledge to help but was deterred by doubts of legal implications.

I believe most people will jump in and act without thought to liability, but it would be nice to remove this thought as a deterrent. Forty-two of his peers took CPR and first-aid training to ensure they are ready for the next time. The company paid for the training and time away. They then went a step further and acquired an automatic external defibrillator and again trained staff. I thought what a wonderful thing to do. This improves and enhances workplace health and safety policies already in place in terms of the operation of machinery and the environment.

It also sends a clear message to the employees of their value to the company, and, as well, it protects any clients or visitors at the site at the time. Bravo Boeing. They may well serve as role models for other companies to follow suit both large and small. My friend did comment, however, that the defibrillator was perceived as intimidating and asked why Manitoba had no Good Samaritan act. I committed then to look into this which resulted in my working on this bill.

I bring it forward now with thanks to the staff at Boeing for their role in initiating it and in tribute to their co-worker, Dave, whose tragic death led to hopefully the passing of this bill. It has been a long time in coming and deserved this thoroughness especially in view of our changing society with technological advances which need to be considered, such as the improvements in ensuring the safe use of equipment such as the defibrillator. With changes to CPR techniques and the call for defibrillators in public places making news in the last year, this bill couldn't be more timely.

Apparently there have been several businesses that have decided to put defibrillators in their offices, a dozen since March and seven just since October and November. The Heart and Stroke Foundation has been training CPR people, providing training for businesses that install these AEDs, that many churches and now the Deloitte firm have also installed. The spokesman for the Lifesaving Society-Manitoba Branch agrees with this call and encourages anything that can save a life. I'm happy to say that our Government Services has been working on bringing a defibrillator into the Legislative Building and training staff.

I do know that schools, the Winnipeg Airport and Polo Park shopping mall have AEDs, but they are still perceived as intimidating to the average person. Unfortunately, some businesses are reluctant to install these devices for fear of being sued if someone untrained uses them in an emergency. This bill will go a long way in reassuring those businesses. The manager of Polo Park says they got their own defibrillator four years ago and trained security to use it. Several lives have been saved.

The director of Emergency Rescue Response Services said defibrillators should be right beside fire extinguishers in all public places. I couldn't agree more and, in fact, have stated that I feel they should be as accessible and comfortable for people to use as a fire extinguisher. It is also my understanding that defibrillators are very user friendly now, or, as Mr. Tordiffe said in the Free Press article, they are fairly idiot-proof to use now. It is my hope that this bill will minimize the fear factor and provide that comfort level so that more lives may be saved.

This, and improved CPR techniques, should be encouraged as part of our government commitment to healthy living. This bill will assist in that encouragement. It's interesting to note that the U.S. goes furthest in imposing the obligation to help others, Canadians, not as litigious, no need, perhaps even insulting, also interesting to discover that our volunteer firefighters are already covered under The Municipal Act. In addition to all the existing acts, I have found two significant ways which we believe cover any possible situation, thus strengthening it.

The first addition to this act is covering anyone providing advice in their efforts to help in an emergency, illness, or accident. There were two good examples in an

article on people proclaimed as heroes in the press. One where someone ran along a river bank shouting directions to a man who had jumped into the river, and another where a three year old instructed her brother who fell into a watershed well to keep digging and don't stop. People unable to reach a victim can provide advice to a third party, not unlike what 911 operators coaching lifesaving efforts to someone over the phone until help arrives. Say

December 5, 2006 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 487 you are witness to an accident, can't reach the victim, but someone else can, you can offer your knowledge or first aid or just common sense. The second addition to this act clarifies coverage in the case of a member of a volunteer organization that provides first aid: ski patrol, Neighbourhood Watch or patrol or other similar services who receive a payment or other benefit in recognition of his or her services, be it a box of doughnuts or a monetary reward, so long as it is not the result of an employer- employee relationship.

A recent case in point was when an off-duty, intensive care nurse and trained paramedic came upon a car that had spun out of control and landed upside down. He and his wife and other Good Samaritans at the scene pulled the driver to safety. A seasonal device that comes to mind as well is Operation Red Nose, where volunteers drive people who have been celebrating safely home. I would hope this bill passes quickly as the season has begun. These people are engaged in helping other people, basically, out of the goodness of their hearts. To leave them uncovered is to go against all sense of decency.

This bill is about letting people do what is good and right and not have to give a second thought to reprisal when that second could cost a life instead of saving one. It may also encourage participation in these other citizen-led groups. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, in seconding this bill and supporting Bill 214, which has been put forward by the Member for St. James, I am moving to work co-operatively with members of this Legislature in order to try and ensure that we have Good Samaritan legislation passed by this Chamber as soon as possible.

Good Samaritan doctrine is a legal principle that prevents a rescuer whose voluntary help to a victim in distress from being successfully sued for wrongdoing, except if the rescuer acted with gross negligence. Under common law, individuals who provide assistance in emergencies can be held liable if their attempt to provide relief exacerbates existing injuries or inflicts new injuries.

The Good Samaritian bill provides partial immunity from liability by providing that rescuers will be held accountable for injuries or fatalities that they've caused, only if there is gross negligence. * (10:20) The purpose of the Good Samaritan law is clear, to encourage more people, especially those with medical training, to provide assistance to individuals rendered ill, injured or unconscious by an accident or an emergency. Good Samaritan legislation reduces the standard of care, and by removing some of the risk or liability, Good Samaritan legislation encourages rescuers to assist victims.

The intention is to keep people from being so reluctant to help a stranger in need of fear of legal repercussions if they make some mistake in the rescue attempt or in the treatment. The idea is that, by providing some coverage with liability, we will encourage people to come forward and help others. The first Good Samaritan legislation in North America was introduced in 1959 in California. Within five years, the majority of the American states had enacted similar laws and, today, there are over 110 statutes providing immunity to rescuers in all 50 states, as well as in the District of Columbia.

The first Good Samaritan legislation in Canada was introduced in 1966 in British Columbia with an amendment to The Medical Act, which protected physicians and surgeons who provided emergency assistance. This law was later amended to apply to both medically-trained and lay rescuers. Alberta followed in 1969 with Good Samaritan legislation in passing the Emergency Medical Aid Act. Newfoundland was next in 1971, and then the Yukon and Northwest Territories in 1976. Nova Scotia enacted Good Samaritan legislation in 1977, Saskatchewan and Prince Edward Island in 1978 and Ontario in 2001.

Thus, Good Samaritan legislation now exists in seven provinces and two territories in Canada, as well as all 50 states and the District of Columbia. Given the proliferation of legislation, it is high time that we have Good Samaritan legislation in Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, I first introduced a bill to provide protection for Good Samaritans in the fall of 2005. The bill introduced by myself and the Member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux) was followed shortly afterwards by the introduction of a bill by the Member for St. James (Ms. Korzeniowski).

In the last session, there was an impasse in terms of passing this legislation, in terms of the priority of the bills and the lack of all-party will and support to get this through.

488 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 5, 2006 This fall, Kevin Lamoureux and I again introduced Good Samaritan legislation in– [interjection] Sorry, the MLA for Inkster and I introduced Bill 201, which provided The Good Samaritan Act. But, when it became clear that we might have a similar impasse again, I decided that the best course of action, in order to assure that all Manitobans would have protection from Good Samaritan legislation, was to support the bill of the MLA for St. James. I hope that we will have a speedy passage of this legislation.

I am pleased to see that we have all-party support in getting leave to get this through first reading and second reading today, and that it is moving swiftly. Let me just say a couple of more words here. Like I said, the purpose of Good Samaritan laws is to immunize a volunteer who is gratuitously acting out of kindness and moral responsibility to help a person in need of emergency assistance from lawsuits by the person receiving aid. The underlying goal, as I said, is to provide an incentive or, at least, to remove a disincentive to providing aid.

In legal theory, somebody who is standing by when there is an accident is safe from liability as long as he or she does absolutely nothing. But, as soon as steps are taken to help a victim, the rescuer can open the door to liability. If the person who is standing by and watching decides to act as a Good Samaritan and chooses to intervene, he or she can then be liable to the victim if the rescue actions are unreasonable or aggravate the plight of the victim.

Good Samaritan legislation is warranted where potential rescuers are dissuaded from providing emergency relief by the fear that intervention will result in being sued or at least open the door to potential liability. A number of studies have examined the extent to which the fear of liability inhibits the provision of emergency assistance by ph ysicians. Indeed, in the United States, one-third to one-half of all physicians would refuse to stop or render aid to a victim without this Good Samaritan legislation. I suspect the numbers would be lower in Canada.

That is, that the higher proportion of physicians would stop to render aid because we have a less litigious society and a more supportive society, but nevertheless I think it is important. We have at least one report of a clear incident in British Columbia where 12 people watched a young man die after two of the bystanders advised the others to not become involved for fear of liability. We want to avoid that sort of thing happening here, and that's why I think it is important that we're working together to pass this legislation.

There have been many groups that have come forward to support the enactment of Good Samaritan laws, and in Manitoba one of the groups that's been at the forefront is the Manitoba Heart and Stroke association, but groups like the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Saskatchewan, the Registered Nurses Association of British Columbia and many others have supported this type of legislation. The Good Samaritan bill goes hand in hand with Manitoba's Food Donations Act, which was assented to in 1994, which mitigates the liability for damages that result from consumption of donated food.

By removing the threat of liability The Food Donations Act encourages non-profit organizations to donate and distribute food to the needy. The Good Samaritan legislation rests on the same reasoning and logic, both charitable organizations and lay rescuers act out of selfless good will. People who choose to act in good faith and rescue their fellow humans in emergency situations should be protected from liability in the same way that people who donate foods are protected.

Good Samaritan legislation encourages the open- handed benevolence and selfless compassion of rescuers who come to the assistance of victims in need. To turn down this Good Samaritan bill would not only make Manitoba an oddball province but would send a message dissuading people from altruistic behaviour. That is why it is important to pass this legislation. At last word I would like to acknowledge the work of Leah Ross who was in my office last year and who played a role in helping to draft the original Good Samaritan bill which we put forward in 2005 and again this year. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Mr. Speaker, it's a pleasure to see the House come together this morning to support this particular piece of legislation. I know that its path through the legislative process has been a bit of a challenging one with some obstacles as there were disputes about two competing but similar bills regarding Good Samaritan protection. I commend the Member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard), who has agreed to set aside his bill so that this particular bill could go

December 5, 2006 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 489 forward. I think he's seen the value and the wisdom of it. We all would hope that when we are in an hour of need there would be Good Samaritans amongst us who would come to our aid. This certainly ensures that if any of us as individuals are ever in peril or certainly any Manitobans across the province, it gives the added assurance to those who might want to come to assistance, that they won't be victimized themselves, in a sense, be cause they've gone forward and rendered aid. I would say, Mr.

Speaker, that there are a couple of natural extensions to this legislation which the government should look at and all of us as opposition parties should look at. I listened to the Member for St. James (Ms. Korzeniowski), who relayed a story about–I believe it was a friend of hers or if she heard the story from a friend of hers–somebody who had a heart attack in a workplace and it was difficult to perhaps get assistance.

There was a wonderment about whether or not there would have been more assistance with this legislation or at least provided that added protection. * (10:30) I do know that in other jurisdictions like Alberta, for example, there are defibrillators which are positioned throughout in a number of public places. For example if you go to the Calgary airport, Mr. Speaker, you'll see public access to defibrillators, what they're called. So actually any member of the public can access the defibrillator to try to help somebody who's having a heart attack.

The Good Samaritan legislation helps to protect those individuals who would work to try to save somebody with a public access defibrillator. I had some questions about this myself. I probably had a misconception, like other members of the Legislature might have, about what a defibrillator actually is. We've all seen on the TV and the movies where they take these tw o paddles, put them on somebody and it executes a shock. It seemed to me to be sort of an unsafe–not all of us need shocks here in the Legislature to get going. But, certainly, Mr. Speaker, it seemed to me to be almost a danger.

A paramedic friend of mine, who lives in Steinbach, who works for the Winnipeg paramedic association told me in fact that these paddles are inactive and when you place them on somebody, they check the paddles, determine whether or not to administer a shock by the person's heart rate. So, if you put the paddles onto somebody who wasn't experiencing a heart attack, for example, nothing would happen. So, in fact, they're quite safe. He indicated to me the Good Samaritan legislation was needed before we could have more public access to defibrillators just to ensure that people had that extra protection.

So I hope that the next step for this government or the next government to come would be to ensure that there would be more access to defibrillators because I think we could save lives by having that. I would also ask the government, and recommend to them, that they now more seriously consider Bill 209, the private member's bill that I introduced and that's already in place in Saskatchewan, in Alberta, in New Brunswick and in Ontario which allows for the testing of blood that Good Samaritans, for example, might come into contact with when they're helping somebody on the roadside or otherwise.

One can imagine the situation, now that we have this legislation in place, where somebody may render assistance to an accident victim on the side of the road. They might get blood upon them, and they would like to test that blood to ensure that it's not HIV positive so that they don't become infected. It seems to me to be a natural extension to, while we're protecting Good Samaritans from legal liability, that we also protect their health, Mr. Speaker. So, I would certainly recommend to this House that these two bills, in many ways, might be complementary to each other.

One protects an individual from a legal ramification, from a legal problem through Good Samaritan legislation. The other bill, 209, protects their health when they're acting in the aid as a Good Samaritan. So, with those comments, I look forward to any other comments that might be coming forward from members of this House, and we look forward, as well, to passage of this legislation. We do certainly hope and we know, in fact, that in the future it will save lives of those who are in peril. Thank you very much. Mr. Ron Schuler (Springfield): I, too, wish to put a few comments on the record regarding Bill 214.

Years ago, an employee of mine, Matthew Pruse, had come to me about this kind of legislation and had spoken to me about the need for it. He is a lifeguard. At that time he was with the Y. He's now moved on to the Rady centre where he is a lifeguard.

490 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 5, 2006 He felt very strongly ab out this because there are instances where individuals have stopped, whether it's at a car accident or some kind of a situation where immediate action was necessary, but felt inhibited by the fact that there were liability issues. In fact, in the United States, there are cases where individuals have stopped at a car accident, moved somebody out of a burning car and then later on were sued because by moving the person, they injured an arm or whatever.

There are instances where, if a vehicle is burning and an individual's arm is stuck under the car, you have a decision to make, probably a decision that I couldn't make. I tend to be perhaps a little bit more squeamish than the next person. But somebody has to make a decision. If you're going to save the person, you've got to move them quickly. Those kinds of decisions have to be protected. They're on- the-spot decision making. They probably shouldn't be left up to second-guessing afterwards when you can say: Well, why didn't you? Why didn't this take place? Then liability issues come into question.

I would like to congratulate the members of the Liberal caucus who had initially brought a piece of legislation forward dealing with this. I understand we are in the British parliamentary system where the majority party, by and large, does move legislation and takes credit for it, and, in this case, so be it. I think it's great that they've had the Member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard) second this bill. It does show bipartisanship. All of us travel the highways and byways of this nation and of this province. A lot of us travel around the city.

We hope that, if we are unconscious and there is need for immediate action, it is our hope, I know each and every one of us, that a Good Samaritan would come by, would stop and would help us in that moment of need and not worry about liability issues because, in a lot of these instances, it is on the spot, a very on-the-moment kind of decision that has to be made. So, certainly, I know my constituents of Springfield, East St. Paul, the two R.M.s I represent, East St . Paul has the Perimeter, Highway 59, Henderson Highway, which is travelled extensively by people from the city moving to and from cottages.

We've got Highway 15 and Garven Road. We've got a lot of different highways that go through Springfield as well. We know that, on occasion, there are incredibly severe accidents. We believe that this bill does cover a lot of those concerns of individuals who travel to and fro from home and work and the like. So we would like to see this bill proceed, and we'd like to see it done on a bipartisan basis. Thank you. Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr.

Speaker, I, too, wanted to put a few words on the record in regard to Bill 214, to start off by saying that the Member for River Heights had approached me awhile back indicating that he would like to see Good Samaritan legislation passed. I kind of felt–and there's this bit of stubbornness at times that I have, I must confess–that the Member for River Heights, in working with others, in particular Leah Ross, but others, came up with this bill, The Good Samaritan Act, last fall in a formal way and introduced it. I believe it was the beginning of November of 2005.

I've always felt that credit should go where it is due, and my leader had indicated to me that it was, from his perspective, more important to see the legislation pass. He felt that was important. It's interesting, over th e weekend I was at a Tim Hortons with a lady in which I have an immense amount of respect for, Marilyn Wedlake. We got into this discussion about accidents, and she brought up the issue of liability in Good Samaritan. I told her, you know, it's kind of funny you would bring that up because we have this legislation.

Then, I kind of felt a little bit guilty because here she's talking about why it is that we should have this in the province of Manitoba, and it was completely unsolicited. I kind of sat back figuring well, you know what? We could've had it. We could've had it back in June had I been more prepared to compromise and say, okay, we'll let the NDP assume the credit for it publicly and know in the back of my mind that the Leader of the Liberal Party is the one who first brought it to the attention of the Manitoba Legislative Chamber.

So, in responding to her, I kind of felt a little bit of guilt, and I thought, you know what? I'll raise the issue with my leader, but my leader beat me to it, Mr. Speaker, by suggesting that we work with the Member for St. James (Ms. Korzeniowski) to try to get her bill passed. We would use the Member for River Heights as the seconder.

So, even though I do believe that need to enco urage private members of this Legislature to come forward with good ideas, and that no one should stake ownership per se to a good idea to the extent that if it's not me, it's not going to pass, I think that we need to put down where we can and concede if need be in order to do the right thing. * (10:40)

December 5, 2006 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 491 I have seen government now act on several issues, whether it's the Good Samaritan legislation. Earlier we talked about the grandparents' ideas bill that was introduced. There was the poppies on the licence plate. These are ideas that came from opposition members in the form of private members' bills. Once someone from the government benches takes or brings forward their thoughts, possibly in the form of legislation, we seem, then, to see a government that is prepared to pass the legislation. Mr.

Speaker, in keeping with that, I would really like to see other bills. You know, the Member for Steinbach (Mr. Goertzen) made reference to his bill, and I believe it was Bill 209, that he would like to see pass. I haven't read the bill, but just based on what it is the Member for Steinbach is talking about, I would like to put a challenge to the government. There are other private members' bills that are worthy of this Legislature passing. Whether it is Bill 209, and the one that I would like to personally highlight is Bill 203, which is The Liquor Control Amendment Act.

It deals with the fetal alcohol syndrome disorder, and I believe would make a difference in the province of Manitoba. I feel quite passionate about that particular piece of legislation. Mr. Speaker, if I was a government member, I get the feeling that it wouldn't be a problem, that the legislation would pass because it is a good piece of legislation. I don't see any opposition to it. No one, to the best of my knowledge, has ever said anything in opposition to this Bill 203. I introduced it in the last session, also, and I have continued to bring it forward.

The challenge that I give the government this morning is to read the private members' bills that are on the Order Paper. For those private members' bills that they believe have the merit to pass, to do the right thing, to do what the Member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard) is doing in regard to his bill, and he's prepared to give it up for the public good because of the need for Good Samaritan legislation. Will not the government also do the right thing and allow for good pieces of legislation to pass this Legislature? You don't have to be in government, Mr. Speaker, in order to pass legislation. Mr.

Speaker, I believe Manitobans, as a whole, will recognize it. I believe that at the end of the day, for example, that the Member for River Heights, and members that have seen the strength and validity of good legislation, and have ultimately compromised in order to allow the government to take credit, like the grandparents bill, that at the end of the day, Manitobans will benefit by us acknowledging and trying to do it in an apolitical fashion. But I would really encourage the government to recognize the fact that there is nothing wrong with giving credit to where credit is due. The Member for Minnedosa (Mrs.

Rowat) had a private member's bill, and these are the people that I can think of right offhand. The Member for Lakeside (Mr. Eichler) had a private member's bill and, of course, the Member for River Heights had a private member's bill. All of which, Mr. Speaker, will, in fact, have been adopted by a government member, brought in through private members' legislation and then, ultimately, accepted.

The opposition, because it is more important to see the legislation pass, is prepared to co-operate and facilitate its passage as we saw today, where we saw first reading given, second reading and we see it, ultimately, I believe, going into committee where it will pass and, ultimately, be given Royal Assent because we believe it's in the public go od. That is the reason that we do it. Having said that, there is other legislation, Mr.

Speaker, that is on the Order Paper, the one that I want because I could've talked about Bill 205, my milk prices, and I can appreciate that that's somewhat controversial, but I can tell you that Bill 203, The Liquor Control Amendment Act, which deals with fetal alcohol spectrum disorder prevention, is not a controversial bill. There's absolutely nothing wrong, and if the government were to allow for this particular bill to pass, Manitobans would benefit by it. I know the Conservatives have spoken in favour of this bill in fact. The Member for Riel (Ms.

Melnick), I believe, introduced a resolution that dealt with fetal alcohol syndrome which dealt in essence with the legislation that we were proposing in Bill 203. So the only party that we're missing is the New Democrats, and if it means having the Member for Selkirk (Mr. Dewar) sponsor the legislation, I'm more than happy to allow that to happen on Bill 203. Let's do what we can in accepting the legislation for what it's worth, and if it's good and valid and Manitobans will benefit from it, let's pass it.

Let's be more progressive in our thinking and a little bit more charitable in terms of our behaviour in passing legislation inside this Chamber for all members. Mr. Jack Reimer (Southdale): I will be very brief. I just want to put some word s on the record in regard

492 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 5, 2006 and support of Bill 214, The Good Samaritan Protection Act, brought in by the Member for St. James (Ms. Korzeniowski). I believe what it is, Mr. Speaker, is a bill that is n ecessary because of the fact that Manitoba in particular relies heavily on volunteerism within all our communities. I think all members of this Chamber have sometime or another been involved with volunteer organizations. It's a tremendous asset to Manitoba in the sense that it makes Manitoba a better place to work and enjoy our quality of life that we have here.

And volunteerism is one of the biggest parts of a very productive and a very worthwhile effort by people who get involved. This bill here does give them a protection when they do come to the aid of a victim in an accident or a medical emergency. I think it's something that we would support, and I believe that it's a good bill. When I first saw The Go od Samaritan Protection Act it brought back to memory a TV program, Mr.

Speaker, that I remember watching, Seinfeld, and in fact if some of us remember Seinfeld, the very last wind-up episode of the series was because of the fact that they broke the Good Samaritan act in this city that they had landed in and the fact that they had neglected to help someone in trouble. So the local townspeople threw them in jail, tried the whole cast of Seinfeld, they were all sent to jail, and the series ended like that. Now, look at what would've happened if the series continued? Mr. Mike Richards, Kramer, he got in to that terrible situation down in the comedy club there the other week.

If Seinfeld was still running he may not be in that predicament, and that's only because they broke the Good Samaritan rule. So I would hope that this act that the Member for St. James brought in does not in any way go down that road where people will be persecuted and thrown in jail and lose their livelihood because of that. But I digress. In all sincerity, Mr. Speaker, we do support this bill, and we look forward to its passage. Mr. Speaker: Is the House ready for the question? Some Honourable Members: Question. Mr.

Speaker: The question before the House is second reading, by leave, of Bill 214, The Good Samaritan Protection Act. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Bill 201–The Good Samaritan Act Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): I would ask leave for members of this House to withdraw this legislation, Bill 201, as it's no longer necessary. Mr. Speaker: Is there leave to withdraw Bill 201, The Good Samaritan Act? Is there agreement? [Agreed] There is agreement, so that bill will be withdrawn. * (10:50) Bill 202–The Health Services Amendment and Health Services Insurance Amendment Act Mr.

Speaker: We will move on to Bill 202, The Health Services Amendment and Health Services Insurance Amendment Act. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the MLA for Inkster, that Bill 202, The Health Services Amendment and Health Services Insurance Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les services de santé et la

Loi sur l'assurance-maladie, be now read a second time and be referred to a committee of this House. Motion presented. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, this legislation provides for including the principle of accountability in the delivery of health care services in Manitoba. I am moving this bill to second reading today, bringing it forward because I believe that, fundamentally, accountability needs to be a cornerstone of how we deliver health care in this province. When I speak of accountability, I speak both in terms of the system that we have and the accountability for quality ca re.

There needs to be an intention to ensuring that we have the highest possible quality of care, and that, all the way through the system, we have approaches, system incentives and other attributes of the delivery of health care which work to reinforce accountability in ensuring the highest possible quality in the delivery of health care services in Manitoba. I also believe that accountability is necessary in terms of economics, in terms of the management of the cost of the services we deliver.

That, all the way through the system, we need to be taking account of the quality and the cost and making sure that we are delivering the highest-quality services at a reasonable and responsible cost, that we are not

December 5, 2006 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 493 duplicating services, that we are not having a system which works in ways that it encourages individuals within the system, if they want to deliver high- quality services, to have to spend unnecessary dollars because of the way that the system is organized.

Individuals who work within the health care system are, by and large, a group of extraordinarily committed individuals who are there because they want to help others, who are there in our health care system because, fundamentally, they want to make sure that other people are cared for well, have the best possible outcomes. Certainly, what we want is a system which provides, at every step of the way, the accountability that is need ed to provide the highest quality at a reasonable cost.

Certainly, we have seen, in some of the issues that have come forward recently, how the government is producing a system which often encourages individuals to do things in a way that has duplication and extra costs when, with proper accountability in the system , we could have the high quality that we need without the extra cost. I'll give you one example that I raised recently.

Family physicians, who should be with their patients at the very centre of the system, are often left out in the loop or put in circumstances where, in their efforts to try and do the very best they can for their patients, they have to order duplicate tests because the system doesn't have the accountability that it has now.

Sometimes what happens is that tests are done in hospitals but the records don't get to the family physician, so the family physician, unable to penetrate the impenetrable morass that is the recordkeeping on occasion in the hospitals, has no choice if he's going to serve the patient and put the patient first as a family practitioner must. Then the family practitioner is put in a position where the family practitioner has to order duplicate tests because the system is not properly accountable.

There is a good example, another example of this same problem that the family practitioner is not considered first but is considered at the end. In this case, we have seen recently the problems with the long waiting times. A waiting time, on average, for a CT scan of 11 weeks and an MRI scan of 8 weeks, but there are no standards for ordering an MRI and so a family practitioner is not allowed to order an MRI directly or has no standards that the family practitioner can meet. The net result is that the family practitioner, under the present circumstance, must therefore have a specialist consultation.

The specialist then must order the MRI. Because there is often a three-month wait to see a specialist, you add the three months to the eight weeks for the so-called wait time for the MRI and you actually have a five- month wait time, very often for an MRI. So a family practitioner who sees an instance where a patient needs an MRI says, well, it takes me five months to get an MRI; it takes me 11 weeks to get a CT scan. Maybe, just maybe, even though a CT scan is second best, I can learn what I need on a CT scan; therefore I'll order a CT scan.

We'll get that in 11 weeks and then we're on the list to get a specialist consultation and an MRI and we'll get that in five months. Well, instead of one MRI, which would be appropriate and if it were available timely with the proper standards, so that a family physician could order it, we'd end up with a system which is not accountable and which has got an MRI, a CT scan and a specialist consultation, three billable procedures costing the system instead of one procedure to get the job done.

We need an accountable health care system instead of the type of health care system that the NDP are running and that, the bottom line, is why we need this bill. We need this bill so that all the way up and down the line, everybody understands that we need to have accountability in the system and we need to change the system so it is accountable. Mr. Gregory Dewar (Selkirk): Mr. Speaker, it's a pleasure to speak to this bill.

I just want to remind the House, of course, it was the Leader of the Liberal Party here in Manitoba when he was a federal minister who cut millions and millions of dollars out of the health care budget of this nation. So it's always interesting to listen to the Liberals speak about their commitment to health care. We know when they had a chance to act at the federal level, Mr. Speaker, they did not. They, in fact, cut it back. You know, you listen to the Liberal Leader, you listen to the members of the Conservative opposition and you'd think we're in Baghdad or something. But I'm reminded here of an

article from the Winkler Times, and the headline is: Province has a bright future. This is not from the Selkirk paper or Thompson or Flin Flon. This is from the Winkler Times: Province has a bright future, which is in sharp contrast to what we hear from the members of the

494 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 5, 2006 opposition when they're going on and on about the situation here in Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, according to the College of Physicians and Surgeons, there are over 200 more doctors registered and practising in Manitoba today than there were in 1999. Mr. Speaker: Order. When this matter is again before the House, the honourable Member for Selkirk (Mr. Dewar) will have eight minutes remaining. * (11:00) RESOLUTION Res. 2–Cross Lake Cadet Programs Mr. Speaker: We will now move on to Resolutions. Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Member for Selkirk (Mr. Dewar),

WHEREAS Cadets is a program for young Canadians who are interested in participating in a variety of challenging and rewarding activities and learning more about the Canadian Forces; and

WHEREAS Cadets encourages youth to become active, responsible members of their communities; and

WHEREAS Cadets learn valuable life and work skills like teamwork, leadership, citizenship as well as reap the personal bene fits of increased self- confidence and physical fitness, learning how to take initiative, and how to make decisions; and

WHEREAS Cadets make valuable contributions to Canadian society on a daily basis in terms of environmental, citizenship and community activities; and

WHEREAS the first Cadet program in Manitoba began in 1909 and there are now 42 Cadet programs across the province benefiting Manitoba youth; and

WHEREAS the Cross Lake Cadet program is the first Cadet program in Manitoba located on a reserve, bringing this opportunity to youth on reserves for the first time; and

WHEREAS the Cadet program provides the only organized activity for youth in Cross Lake aside from winter hockey; and

WHEREAS children who participate in organized activities outside of school tend to have higher self-esteem, interact better with friends and perform better in school; and

WHEREAS teachers and schools report a positive impact in many youth involved in the program; and

WHEREAS the local RCMP detachment in Cross Lake is reporting a turnaround in problem youth who are in the Cadet program; and

WHEREAS the program has instilled pride in the cadets and the whole community and is ensuring that youth feel they are also important in society; and

WHEREAS it is through the hard work and effort of volunteers such as Bob Smith, founder of the Cross Lake Cadet program, that Cadet programs are established and benefit communities. THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba congratulate Bob Smith and the other volunteers who worked so long to get the first remote Cadet program in Manitoba; and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba urge the provincial government to consider supporting efforts to establish other Cadet program in northern and remote communities. Mr. Speaker: It has been moved by the honourable Member for Flin Flon, seconded by the honourable Member for Selkirk,

WHEREAS– An Honourable Member: Dispense. Mr. Speaker: Dispense. Mr. Jennissen: Mr. Speaker, I'm going to be talking about the Cadet program in Cross Lake, but I also would like to make reference to other Cadet programs right across the province and right across the country. But, briefly, before I ev en do that, Mr. Speaker, I want to mention one other program, very briefly. That is the Ranger patrol program which is very successful in many Manitoba communities, and in northern Manitoba there is an established Junior Ranger patrol in Lac Brochet, Tadoule Lake, Churchill, Snow Lake and Lynn Lake.

In fact, my friend, Horace Cockerhill is very active in the Lynn Lake patrol. In northern Manitoba, there are also communities with established Ranger patrols, that is, Shamattawa and Gillam.

December 5, 2006 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 495 Mr. Conrad Santos, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair But there are only two Cadet programs, two Cadet units, operating on reserves in Canada, Mr. Deputy Speaker. One of them in Albema [phonetic], Alberta, and the second one is in Cross Lake, Manitoba, although, as I've said before, there are many active Cadet programs right across the province. I could mention several in the north, particularly in Flin Flon, where Bill McLean runs a very active Cadet program. But, like every other successful program with young people, there have to be key organizers involved, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, a spark plug, a key person, a person that can inspire young people. We were lucky to find that person in Cross Lake, and that person is Bob Smith, who is originally from Cross Lake. He is a Cross Lake resident, and was trained for a number of years also at Frontier Collegiate Institute in Cranberry Portage, a school where I taught for 22 years, and the honourable Member for The Pas (Mr. Lathlin) also attended that school. Another teacher, actually, at that school is the Member for Assiniboia (Mr. Rondeau) who taught there a number of years.

At any rate, Bob Smith started the Cadet program in Cross Lake more than a year ago. He has some help obviously. It cannot be done alone. His daughter, Janine helps him out as administrative officer with the aid of Donna Carriere. Mabel McLeod is the training officer. Angela McIvor is the supply officer. Two RCMP personnel also help very much with the program. I should mention their names. They're Jason Yaskew and Richard Perkins. The program is, as I said before, very active. They meet every Tuesday evening.

There are four levels in the program: the green level, the red level, the silver level, and the gold level. Before I talk about the program in detail, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I would just like to quote or semi- quote, paraphrase is a better word, some of the words of Bob Smith, who I happened to phone last night. He was a very interesting gentleman, obviously, very motivated, driven gentleman, who does some wonderful things for the community. Here are some of his observations, and I'll paraphrase them rather loosely. He said the program is rooted in the community and it is supported by the community.

He is very impressed with the way the program broadens the horizons of the young people in the program. He was surprised to learn, for example, when he took his group to Winnipeg that three of his young people had never flown in a plane, and some of them had never been to Winnipeg. He says the Cadet program builds confidence and self- esteem. Many young people have turned their life around. Their grades have improved. They seem happier. They learn life skills. They learn survival skills. They learn leadership skills. In fact, some of their leaders were trained in Vernon, B.C., and Whitehorse, Yukon.

Some of those young people came back to Cross Lake and they trained others. So it is a self-sustaining kind of a program. As I said before, there is tremendous community support because, among other reasons, there are very few things to do for young people in some of the remote communities. The only other organized activity is hockey in the winter. Mr. Smith made the observation that, perhaps, some of us are a little hasty with our young people. We should respect them first of all. Respect is a key word, particularly in northern Aboriginal traditions, and I think it is a good thing for us to rediscover that.

Respect our young people, be a little less critical of our young people, be willing to work with them, give them a break, cut them a little bit of slack, and, instead of complaining about what they do wrong, maybe organize them, get them into some positive activities, either through the Cadet program or in the Lighthouses projects, but get young people doing positive things. That was his idea and he is very right on that, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

I should also point out that another observation he made that sometimes we solve problems too late with young people, and, if we could put a few supports in earlier, we would get a bigger bang for the buck. Sometimes we throw millions of dollars at problems that we allow to fester for a long time when we are trying to solve something that we should have solved to work with a generation ago, or years ago. So we should be proactive and work with young people early and put money in supports into place early because that way we get a much bigger bang for the buck.

I would like to talk about some specifics of the program, Mr. Deputy Speaker. In the general sense, Cadets Canada is a federally-sponsored initiative for youth, aged 12 to 18, that offers a variety of activities aimed at promoting citizenship, leadership and physical fitness. The program is tailored to those wanting to learn more about the land, sea and air activities of the Canadian Forces.

496 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 5, 2006 Mr. Speaker in the Chair Cadets Canada is banded by the Canadian Forces in partnership with the Navy League of Canada, the Army Cadet League of Canada and the Air Cadet League of Canada. There are no registration fees, dues or costs incurred by youth, and all expenses are covered for youth instructor attendance at the summer training camps. But, of course, Bob Smith urges support, as much as possible, from the community, but it's very limited, but also from other sources.

The first Cadet program in Manitoba began in 1909 and there are now 42 Cadet programs across the province. The core programming is delivered through these community-based Cadet units designated as army, sea or air units. The most recently established units include Transcona, Steinbach and Cross Lake. The Cross Lake Cadet program is the first Cadet program in Manitoba located on a reserve, as I said earlier, thus it is a new opportunity for youth on reserves. The Cadet program provides the only organized activity for youth in Cross Lake, aside from winter hockey.

There are obvious community benefits to such a program. Let me mention some of them, and the benefits have been far-reaching. The Cadet program has encouraged youth to become active, responsible members of the Cross Lake community. For example, last summer they planted $10,000 worth of trees. That was a very positive program for the community and for the young people. Here, cadets learn valuable life and work skills like teamwork, leadership and citizenship.

They are given the opportunity of personal benefits of increased self- confidence and physical fitness, in learning how to take initiative and how to make decisions. These cadets have new opportunities to make valuable contributions to Canadian society on a daily basis, in terms of environmental, citizenship and community activities. Posi tive feedback has been received from the local teachers. Grades have improved, and the RCMP, especially, with respect to some problem youth who have been reported making remarkable turnarounds.

These children have become actively engaged with higher self-esteem and are interacting better socially. As Mr. Bob Smith said, these seem to be happier children, happier youth. * (11:10) The program has instilled pride in the cadets and the whole community. This is establishing in these youths feelings of contribution and importance in their society. They have something valuable to give to their community. Their energies are channelled into a positive direction. There are also external community benefits and opportunities, Mr. Speaker.

The positive impact in the many youth involved in the program have not just rewarded the Cross Lake community. This impact has been extended beyond Cross Lake to other Manitoban and Canadian communities. This past summer, 10 cadets had the opportunity to travel to various Canadian communities for summer training. Three of these cadets travelled to Whitehorse, Yukon while seven completed their training in Vernon, British Columbia. Cross Lake's Royal Canadian Army Cadets has been also covered on the Aboriginal People's Television Network, APTN, and the CBC news. These were newsworthy happenings.

The Cross Lake cadets have also caught the attention of other Manitobans. The unit has just successfully completed its first annual ceremonial review in June with ministers Lathlin, Robinson and Ashton in attendance. An Honourable Member: You can't say that. Mr. Jennissen: Sorry, Mr. Speaker. The unit just completed its first annual ceremonial review with the members for The Pas, Rupertsland and Thompson in attendance. On October 4, 2006, representatives of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs were invited to a gathering of the Cross Lake unit to observe activities first-hand.

Representatives also had an opportunity to speak with a liaison from Cadets Canada. Another specialty event occurred this past October when a group of 42 cadets, four officers and three civilian volunteers ca me to Winnipeg for the annual Cadet Fall Leadership Concentration, known as Fall Con. This is a gathering of Army Cadet corps from northwestern Ontario and Manitoba. Of the 15 Cadet corps attending this year, and I think there were some 500 young people there, two were from northern Manitoba communities of Cross Lake and Flin Flon.

Fall Con focusses on promoting physical fitness activities, leadership training, team-building exercises, practical application of map and compass and much more. The Cross Lake cadets won the

December 5, 2006 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 497 Spirit Award as the most well-behaved cadets at this event. While in Winnipeg for Fall Con, the cadets were invited to a luncheon at the Legislative Building with the Honourable Oscar Lath lin, the Member for The Pas. Mr. Speaker: Order. I have to remind all honourable members, when making reference to other members in the House, that it's ministers by their portfolios and other members by their constituencies and not by name. Mr.

Jennissen: While in Winnipeg for the Fall Con, the cadets were invited to a luncheon at the Legislative Building with the Minister for Aboriginal and Northern Affairs (Mr. Lathlin). The minister spoke to the cadets and reiterated how the program has benefited Cross Lake and how the cadets are seen as role models in the community, and he's a strong supporter of the program, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): It is a pleasure to speak to the resolution brought forward by the Member for Flin Flon (Mr. Jennissen) this morning.

He mentioned in his speech that there is, in fact, an Air Cadets program in Steinbach, a new Air Cadets program that's been operating now over the last few months. I first became aware of the Cadets program more generally in relation to my community where we have a good business. The name is Harv's Air, in Steinbach, which trains cadets, and they have 40 to 50 young people who come from across Canada to do their Air Cadets training at Harv's Air.

I've certainly noticed over the la st number of years an increase of air traffic over the community of Steinbach, and many of that air traffic is attributable to the fact that cadets are there learning, getting their air time in the community. That successful initiative in Steinbach spawned our own squadron of Air Cadets in the community, and we're proud to see them in our region and our area. There has, at times, been some misunder- standing, I think, regarding what cadets are, what the program is, that it's not an offshoot of the military.

Sometimes we hear the word "cadets" and confuse, perhaps, what the purpose is. But I think the Member for Flin Flon, in his resolution, laid it out well in terms of what the program does in terms of giving and allowing responsibility to be instilled in young people, a number of different activities throughout the community. In the Air Cadets program itself, I'd be interested to see statistics. I would guess that the vast majority of air cadets don't go on to military service but probably go on into other sort of programs in terms of commercial air and different sorts of programs.

We know, in fact, that the program does a lot more than simply focus on, sort of, military activities. It does, in fact, instil a lot of responsibility in youth. Sometimes, we, as legislators focus on the negative aspects of what happens with young people. We see it in the media sometimes, and we're concerned about certain young people within our community who continue to do things that none of us as responsible Manitobans approve of. But we need to not lose focus of the fact that the vast majority of young people in Manitoba are good young people and are doing responsible things.

The Air Cadet program or the Cadet program, more generally, is certainly one that demonstrates that we have many, many fine young Manitobans who will be future leaders, if not in this Legislature itself, Mr. Speaker, then certainly in the province more generally. I also want to note that there are many people who volunteer with the Air Cadet program throughout Manitoba and the Cadets program, more generally, and they do a tremendous amount of service.

I've had the opportunity to be friends with some of these individuals who lead the cadets, and they're very dedicated, very, very dedicated to serving young people in this particular way. I know that there's a tremendous amount of time that's involved with organizing a Cadet program and ensuring that the marches go on and public demonstrations so that others can understand and appreciate the work as well. I do, in concluding my comments, Mr. Speaker, have a friendly amendment that I would like to propose to the resolution.

If I need to seek leave to move that amendment, then I so seek that leave from members of this Legislature. Mr. Speaker: I think it would be only fair if the members hear the proposed amendment first, and I hope the honourable member has spoken to the person who's responsible for bringing forward this resolution to get some form of agreement, but I think it would be only fair for the members to hear it first. Mr. Goertzen: Yes, Mr. Speaker, and that certainly is fair, and I've had conversations with my honourable friend from Flin Flon regarding this amendment, and the amendment would read that I

498 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 5, 2006 move, seconded by the Member for Tuxedo (Mrs. Stefanson), THAT the resolution be amended by deleting the words "in northern and remote communities” and substituting with "throughout Manitoba". Motion presented. Mr. Speaker: Does the House accept this as a friendly amendment? [Agreed] So it's the pleasure of the House to adopt the amendment? [Agreed] So the last line, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba urge the provincial government to consider supporting efforts to establish other Cadet programs throughout Manitoba.

That's how it will now read. Okay? [Agreed] So the honourable Member for Steinbach, you've concluded your comments? Any other speakers? Mr. Andrew Swan (Minto): It's a pleasure to speak briefly to this resolution. Congratulations to the Member for Flin Flon (Mr. Jennissen) for bringing this forward and, indeed, congratulations to the Member for Steinbach (Mr.

Goertzen) for proposing a reasonable amendment that will, I think, reflect the value of cadets throughout the province of Manitoba, most of all, though, of course, congratulations to the Cadet program in Cross Lake which is providing a wonderful opportunity for young people in that area. Now, Cadets Canada has a long history in Manitoba. I understand that the first Cadet group in Manitoba began back in 1909.

My older brother, Ken, actually served in the Air Cadets, in the 177 squadron, many moons ago, and, indeed, our babysitter, Bridget, who with her family used to live on Lipton Street close to Minto Armouries was involved in Cadets last year. * (11:20) Now, of course, the constituency that I'm very pleased to represent in the Legislature is named for Minto Armouries, located at the corner of Minto and St. Matthews. Throughout the year, it's a beehive of activity. There are various reserve units that operate out of there. As well, there are many Cadet groups that operate out of Minto Armouries.

It's quite an amazing place. There are always young people coming and going, and, certainly, they are receiving some real benefits from being involved in the Cadet program. Now, in the city and in many communities, becoming involved in Cadets, I think it's fair to say, is not the first thing that comes to mind for young people. There is a lot of competition for young people's hearts and minds and time, certainly, in the city, but we know that a lot of the opportunities don't exist in the same degree in northern communities and remote communities, in rural communities.

So, certainly, as a city member, I've had some opportunities to learn more about what Cadets are doing outside of the city of Winnipeg. I was very pleased, Mr. Speaker, to be a member of the Healthy Kids, Heal thy Futures ta sk force, which toured the province up north to southeast to west, and we learned about different opportunities available for recreation for young people. Indeed, it was in the wonderful town of Arborg where we were hosted by the excellent Member for Interlake (Mr. Nevakshonoff), that we, indeed, had a presentation and a performance, I guess we could call it, of the Cadet program.

From the individuals involved with that Cadet program, we heard about the benefits provided to young people in the Interlake. We learned about the discipline the young people receive from this program; we learned about the teamwork that young people receive. We also learned about the valuable skills, some life skills, some outdoor skills, various fun, but also educational opportunities that these young people in the Interlake receive. Certainly, there are other opportunities available to youth.

Some children become involved in sports, some become involved in dance or other performing arts, but, certainly, Cadet corps or other opportunities for young people to find a positive thing to do. Cadets have certainly done a great job in the city of Winnipeg, and they are now expanding throughout the province to provide those opportunities for young people. Certainly, I am delighted to hear about the positive things happening in Cross Lake. It is a model that we hope other communities, the north, the south, in urban areas will continue to expand upon for the benefit of our young people.

So those are all my comments, Mr. Speaker. Again, congratulations to the Member for Flin Flon (Mr. Jennissen) for bringi ng forward a very good, a very positive resolution. Thank you.

December 5, 2006 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 499 Mrs. Leanne Rowat (Minnedosa): I would like to speak to the Member for Flin Flon's resolution on the Cross Lake Cadet program and the Cadet program, as a whole, within the province of Manitoba. The Cadet program of today originated from the Cadet program that began during the First World War and flourished during the Second World War. As the history of military conflict has evolved, so have the purposes of the Cadet program evolved.

Despite the initial emphasis on the military aspect of the Cadet program, these programs were also recognized for their ability to encourage and instil qualities that are typically associated with good citizenship: development of leadership, promotion of physical activity, loyalty, the expression of dedication, professionalism, the accomplishments of task with pride or with pride and diligence, mutual respect, the treatment of others with dignity and equality, integrity, the courage and commitment to exemplify trust, sincerity and honesty. Over the course of the years, Mr.

Speaker, the Cadet program grew to emphasize the merits that are attained from such programming. Today, the Cadet program in Manitoba is healthy and strong, with several programs across Manitoba. In the Westman region in the Minnedosa constituency, we have a very strong Cadet detachment. They are housed or are guests of the Western Canada Aviation Museum. There has been a strong partnership with the Cadet program in Westman with former and current veterans, as well as having an integral relationship with the Shilo or 2PPCLI . They are very much integrated and provide supports to each other.

I also noticed, when I attended several memorial services in my riding, that the Cadets play a very important role in the memorial services, Mr. Speaker. I think that it is a testament to the young people who have obviously taken a very strong interest in leadership and sincerity to the roles they have taken and an understanding of the importance of their mandate in the program. Mr. Speaker, there ar e approximately 5,500 youths that are currently involved and 1,140 Cadet corps and squadrons so this is a very healthy and growing program.

Approximately 35 percent of these youth are female and 65 percent are male so obviously there's a strong representation from both genders. There are 200-plus ca dets who receive the opportunity to travel internationally which allows youth to become ambassadors of our province and our country at an early age. We're seeing these young people have an opportunity to learn from other countries and from other nations. The motion being considered, by the Member for Flin Flon, deals specifically with the first remote Cadet program in Manitoba, the Cross Lake Cadet Program.

The motion also issues a call to establish other Cadet programs, particularly in northern and remote areas of this province. I support the amendment made by the Member for Steinbach (Mr. Goertzen) that we support the call to establish other cadets throughout Manitoba. Seeing personally first- hand what success we've seen in the Westman region, I strongly support that amendment. This is an opportunity to truly consider the strengths that the Cadet program has offered and continues to offer for our youth.

This is an opportunity to see where the skills and strength that are developed by the Cadet programming would be of most benefit. The benefits and rewards are numerous and significant, Mr. Speaker. It provides a sense of accomplishment. It provides the opportunity for recognition from peers and mentors as I've seen within my constituency with Shilo. It provides once-in-a-lifetime opportunities and experiences and creates lifelong friendships. It provides a chance to showcase talents and maturity.

It creates and fosters self-confidence, self-discipline, self-esteem and increases self-awareness not only of oneself but of the community they live in or represent. So it definitely provides supports and leadership in providing community involvement. On a sidebar, Mr. Speaker, I had the opportunity this summer to visit the Indian and Métis Friendship Centre in Winnipeg. I met with a woman who does an amazing job with the Aboriginal Girl Guides program. I'm going to speak a little bit about that as a tie-in because I believe that's another program that provides the opportunities similar to the Cadet program.

It's just another facet or another venue of opportunity for young people to attain or grasp some extremely strong benefits. The Indian and Métis Friendship Centre of Winnipeg Aboriginal Girl Guide program was started in the summer of 2002 in partnership with the Friendship Centre and the Manitoba Council of Girl Guides. It has created a partnership with some great program delivery and the philosophy of the Girl Guides of Canada is incorporated in the program as well as an inclusion of an Aboriginal component.

500 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 5, 2006 The philosophy of Girl Guides promotes the personal development of girls and women and empowers them to be responsible citizens through the development of personal values and well-being. As in the cadets, it provides opportunities to grow and develop self-respect an d respect of others. The promotion of fun, friendship and adventure provides a celebration of pride and accomplishments in the development of leadership and decision-making. * (11:30) The Aboriginal Girl Guides program was developed for Aboriginal girls between the ages of 5 and 17.

The program is delivered in a holistic and culturally-appropriate manner in neighbourhoods with large Aboriginal populations. The program teaches skills to assist young Aboriginal girls in making positive life changes and to become successful, strong and independent adults. As in the Cadet program, Mr. Speaker, we're looking at ways to promote opportunities to create self-worth and to promote leadership and strong and independent thinkers.

So in a community that faces many hardships and struggles to attain the necessities of life and the skills to be successful, programming that promotes self-esteem, a sense of place, purpose and connection to others is essential. That speaks to all communities within Manitoba as well as the remote in the north. We know, in some communities in northern Manitoba, suicide rates are particularly high among the Aboriginal population so programs such as the Cadet program or the Girl Guides program are essential, and it can counteract the issues and feelings of hopelessness within communities.

So we know that the essential development of a sense of self-worth that can directly lead to increased participation in post-secondary or even completing secondary education is critical in ensuring that we have individuals who can further their expertise in the workforce. We know that programming that is offered through Cadets or through Girl Guides has many years of success behind them, but we know that by taking steps to promote the importance of programs like this to remote northern and rural communities will only strengthen organizations such as this. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Tom Nevakshonoff (Interlake): Mr. Speaker, it's my pleasure to rise to speak in support of this resolution, and I thank th e Member for Flin Flon (Mr. Jennissen), for bringing it forward. I have had some personal experience with the Cadets in the past and therefore speak from some experience in acknowledging the good works that they do. My step-daughter, Caitlin Davis was a member of the Fisher Air Cadets for a couple of years and I, myself, had the opportunity to go out on a couple of occasions with the Cadets and experience first-hand some of the training and the experiences that they go through.

The Fisher Air Cadets have a fine facility up in the Lake St. George area, and it was under the leadership of Captain Len Huff and his wife, Lynn [phonetic], that I had the opportunity to travel up there. I just want to acknowledge the good efforts of Captain Huff . He has just stepped down from the position. Recently, he was diagnosed with cancer and is now in a very serious struggle himself, but the discipline and the strength that he learned in leading the Cadet program I am sure will help him in the days to come.

The commander for the Fisher Air Cadets is now Jocelyn Dunitz, and her husband, Mike, is also a volunteer. I was speaking with Jocelyn no less than a couple of days ago, as a matter of fact. She dropped over to visit my wife and me. Hopefully, at the next event that the Cadets hold, I once again will go out there. Some of the events that they do undertake are very good learning experiences for them, Mr. Speaker. I partook of the winter survival training program. I think, in Manitoba, there isn't a more applicable skill to have than surviving in the ultra- cold conditions that we often experience.

The cadets go out. They build different types of housing out there to survive in, whether it's a quinzhee or, you know, using a parachute to create a temporary tent or even building shelters out of spruce boughs, learning how to build fires, how to detect the signs of hypothermia and frost bite and how to deal with them. These are all very critical skills for our youth to have and this program focusses on that.

I also learned about orienteering with them, and not just how to use a compass but how to orienteer even at nighttime so that if they ever find themselves in a situation like that, they know how to survive, how not to get lost, how to do it safely. One of the skills that I was especially happy to see that they were learning was how to perform search and rescue techniques. Quite often people get lost in the bush, whether it's hunters or campers. While we do have the police and, in extreme circumstances, the military, to help in finding and rescuing these people, if local citizens also have

December 5, 2006 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 501 these skills, and these are skills that the cadets are being taught, then obviously that is a benefit to society as a whole. I would also like to recognize volunteers. The Member for Flin Flon (M r. Jennissen) referenced Bob Smith. One volunteer that sticks, particularly, in my mind is a man named Anthony Imlah who was out there with the Fisher Air Cadets with us. His skills and involvement were a prime example of citizen participation in this program. As other members have said, the skills they learn are so valuable.

Whether it is participating in their community, whether it is discipline or leadership skills, respect for elders, living a healthy lifestyle, all of these things are critical in the development of our youth. The Cadets are broken up into three different types of programs, as I understand it. Of course, the Fisher group is involved with the Air Force, but there are also marine cadets and army cadets, as well. Different aspects of the military are covered off. Yes, many opportunities for travel are made available to these children.

Many of them are from disadvantaged homes, so that this is a unique opportunity for them to get involved and see the world and experience personal growth as a result of it. I conclude my remarks by recognizing the Member for Flin Flon for bringing this forth, and I want to recognize all the Cadet groups in Manitoba and Canada, the volunteers that are so critical in making this program a success. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): I, too, want to just put a few comments on record regarding the resolution brought forward by the Member for Flin Flon.

I want to thank the Assembly for also accepting the amendment because that also draws in the area that I represent. I have Cadet programs in the town of Morden and also in the town of Manitou. They're very active. They're very successful and, of course, the activities that they are involved in are those that would add and give the young people an opportunity to expand their own horizons in life. I want to thank people like Paul Fox, who is involved, and Maurice Butler. These gentlemen have certainly helped the programs expand within these communities that I am talking about today.

I know that the first time that it was brought to my attention the fact that the programs were so successful; of course, it was when we had the Remembrance Day ceremonies on the 11th of November. That is years ago when I was introduced to these groups and the work , of course, that they are doing. But ongoing throughout the years, they have been involved in parades as well and, of course, this is much more visible. But what I want to also indicate is the fact that the learning process that they need to go through where they can through these programs develop their own leadership skills.

They promote physical fitness, loyalty, the expression of dedication, profes- sionalism, the accomplishment of tasks with pride and diligence, mutual respect, the treatment of others with dignity and equality and, of course, integrity, the courage and the commitment to exemplify trust, sincerity and honesty. Over the course of the years, the Cadet program grew to emphasize the merits that are attained from such programming. So, Mr.

Speaker, I just wanted to draw this to the attention of the Assembly but also to publicly thank those people who have been involved in the Cadet program and the Member for Flin Flon for bringing this resolution forward. Certainly, I think it is something that we should all be applauding, and we should go back to our own communities and to thank them for the work that they are doing. Thank you very much. * (11:40) Mr. Tim Sale (Fort Rouge): Mr. Speaker, I am grateful to the Member for Flin Flon (Mr. Jennissen) for introducing this resolution and to the House for showing signs of supporting it, I hope unanimously.

I simply want to say that I had the opportunity to be an air cadet for a couple of years. I learned the theory of flight, basic meteorology, small motor maintenance and skills. Every time my lawnmower quits I give thanks to the Air Cadets because I actually know how they work. Learning the theory of flight led me to seek a pilot's licence, and I actually had my solo permit when I was 15. It was kind of amusing to everybody that I was able to move in three dimensions before I was legal to drive in two, which struck everybody as a little weird, but nevertheless was the case.

For a small town where I grew up, with quite a lot of poor families, Air Cadets was an equal opportunity kind of experience because uniforms were supplied, equipment was supplied. Basically, it cost us nothing or almost nothing to be a member of

502 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 5, 2006 Air Cadets and provided us with a sense of discipline and purpose, friends and role models that, I think, served a lot of us very well in a small town like that. To be able to afford to go anywhere in 1954, '55, '56 and '57 was quite a chore, and kids in the Cadet corps went to Greenwood, Nova Scotia, from Goderich, Ontario, which was an enormous trip for little kids who'd never been out of town at that point. So I want to support this resolution strongly. I am very proud of the Sea Cadet corps that is in my riding at the Chippewa.

Every time there is a service or memorial of any kind at Chippewa the Sea Cadets are very much in evidence. They're led, of course, largely by volunteers, and they all deserve our thanks. So, in support of this resolution, I would note that it's a particularly effective form of opportunity for young people because the costs of belonging and attending and learning are very low.

So it's very appropriate for many kids who could not afford some of the activities that we often think are the normal youth activities of sports, for example, where a single season in hockey can cost anywhere from $500 to $1,500 or more dollars just to take part,

whereas belonging to a Cadet corps and having enormous numbers of learning opportunities, as well as social opportunities, can be almost a no-cost item. So I want to thank the Member for Flin Flon and thank all members of the House for supporting this resolution. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I rise to support this resolution. Over the course of the last number of years that I' ve been the Leader of the Liberal Party, I've had a number of occasions to visit and meet with people in Cross Lake and to visit in the community. Certainly, it is located in a beautiful part of northern Manitoba.

It is a community which is growing and, I believe, is increasingly taking its place among the major communities in northern Manitoba with a population, probably, of about 6,000 people at the moment. Certainly, it is very positive having the Cadet program operating in Cross Lake. It's been well received in the community, and it is a good thing for the young people in the community. The feedback that I have had from people in Cross Lake is positive.

For some time it's been recognized that there needs to be more opportunities for young people and, clearly, this is one significant opportunity for young people to get involved and be able to find a sense of direction, some involvement, some pride, some contribution. So I want to congratulate all those who have contributed in one way or another to supporting this program. I would just add that, when I have been in Cross Lake, one of the significan t areas of concern that I have met with members of the community on numerous occasions is in relationship to health care.

Certainly, having the Cadet program, I believe, there's a contribution to improving the health of young people, and in that way will benefit health care, but clearly there are issues around health care, the need for a proper hospital in Cross Lake, a future-thinking hospital which are vital, I would say. I would urge the provincial government to do much better than it has in the past. I note a recent letter from Grand Chief Ron Evans, which he brought to my attention in the last few days. This is a letter from Grand Chief Ron Evans to the Premier (Mr.

Doer), and he says: I'm writing to express my extreme disappointment in the lack of substantial Manitoba First Nation participation in the national summit on Aboriginal health held on November– Mr. Speaker: Order. We're debating the resolution on Cross Lake Cadet Program. I hope the honourable member will tie the two together here. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, I'm in the process of tying these together.

My point here is that it is good to see co-operation, involvement and support for the Cadet program, and that it's very important that we have much better co-operation in the provincial government with people in Cross Lake and in other northern communities in relationship to health care in a broader sense. That is the point that I want to make and that is the point that has been urged upon me repeatedly by people in northern Manitoba and individuals like Grand Chief Ron Evans.

So let us work toward improving the health care of young people, partly through programs like the Cadet program, but let us also work in other ways to improve the health care all over Manitoba. Thank you. Hon. Eric Robinson (Minister of Culture, Heritage and Tourism): Mr. Speaker, allow me a few moments to speak to the resolution. Let me thank my colleague the Member for Flin Flon (Mr. Jennissen) for raising it. I believe it's a great tribute to an individual who has been dedicating a good portion of his life to ensuring that the youth of Cross Lake have opportunities that were not ordinarily

December 5, 2006 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 503 given to him when he was growing up, Bob Smith, who happens to be a relative of mine, as well. So, while I'm speaking, I don't know if I'm speaking what would be termed as a conflict of interest because most of the people I'm talking about in Cross Lake would be my relatives, Mr. Speaker. So I am, nevertheless, going to say that the Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs (Mr. Lathlin) and the Minister of Intergov ernmental Affairs (Mr. Ashton) and myself were given the honour of inspecting the Cadet corps back in June when that occurred.

Let me tell you a bit about the Cadet corps, Mr. Speaker. They're made up of two platoons which have taken the name of two of our esteemed veterans from the community, the late Reuben McKay and the late Sandy Beardy, and together, they have formed the Ernest McLeod memorial cadet corps in the community of Cross Lake. It's both from the Northern Affairs community of Cross Lake and the First Nation, Pimicikamak Cree Nation. So we were, indeed, honoured with the Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs, the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs and I, to be invited to take

part in the ceremony and the inspection that occurred there along with members of the RCMP hierarchy here in Winnipeg from "D" Division, and from elsewhere, the Army Cadet corps based in Winnipeg. We believe that the success of the Cross Lake Cadet Program has led to other northern communities to ask us, our government, about setting up their own Cadet programs. We're only too happy to help in whatever fashion we can.

Initially, when the Cross Lake people came to us, we were excited about the potential that existed there because, first of all, it gave us the opportunity to try another thing that maybe would add to the already-growing number of things that they were attempting to do in keeping our troubled youth from getting into trouble. What this has proven to us, Mr. Speaker, not only ourselves in government but, indeed, the community, the elders, the women's council and all the rest in the community of Cross Lake is that it has served several purposes.

It has taught self-worth to a lot of young people who would not ordinarily have that opportunity, and it's taught them to feel good about themselves. * (11:50) In addition, I believe that they're engaged in more positive activities. I know that my colleague, the Member for the Inte rlake (Mr. Nevakshonoff) was talking about winter survival courses. Indeed, that is part of what the programming is for the Ernest McLeod Cadet Corps. Also, suicide prevention, a huge issue in many of our northern communities, has again been addressed with the Cadet corps.

I remember one of the leaders of the cadet corps telling me that, as a result of the introduction of the Cadet corps in Cross Lake, there's been a lot of youth crime that has declined in the community. One of the young men that is now improving in rank, I suppose from private to, I believe, corporal now, was a young man that was always in trouble with the law, but, since becoming involved with the Cadet corps about a year ago, this young man's life has turned around entirely. So we're very happy.

So it's not only in Cross Lake, indeed, but I would say that in other northern Canadian communities Cadet corps are proving to be successful and, yet, Cadet corps have been widely known, particularly in southern Canada, for many, many years. If I could talk briefly about an area that I'm familiar with as well, Rankin Inlet in Nunavut, which you're familiar with, Mr. Speaker. In fact, the Cadet corps there is led by your sister, Dorothy, and also the training that she has taken, Dorothy Tootoo.

We're very proud of the linkages that we've been able to make with the Rankin Inlet Cadet Corps and, also, with the initiatives that are occurring here in the province of Manitoba. But, as we look throughout northern Canada, particularly in the remote areas of this country, we find that there are these positive activities occurring.

So I want to wholeheartedly endorse, as a member of this Assembly that has represented northern Manitoba communities for a while now in this Assembly, I want to give my wholehearted endorsement to this resolution and thank my colleague, the Member for Flin Flon, for raising it in the House today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: Is the House ready for the question? An Honourable Member: Question. Mr. Speaker: The question before the House is the resolution brought forward by the honourable

504 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA D ecember 5, 2006 Member for Flin Flon (M r. Jennissen), the Cross Lake Cadet Program, as amended. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the resolution? Resolution agreed to. Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Official Opposition House Leader): 12 o'clock, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: Is it the will of the House to call it 12 o'clock? [Agreed] The hour being 12 noon, this House is recessed and we will reconvene at 1:30 p.m.

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, December 5, 2006 CONTENTS ORDERS OF THE DAY PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS Introduction of Bills Bill 214–The Good Samaritan Protection Act Korzeniowski 485 Second Readings–Public Bills Bill 214–The Good Samaritan Protection Act Korzeniowski 485 Gerrard 487 Goertzen 488 Schuler 489 Lamoureux 490 Reimer 491 Bill 201–The Good Samaritan Act Gerrard 492 Bill 202–The Health Services Amendment And Health Services Insurance Amendment Act Gerrard 492 Dewar 493 Resolution Res. 2–Cross Lake Cadet Programs Jennissen 494 Goertzen 497 Swan 498 Rowat 499 Nevakshonoff 500 Dyck 501 Sale 501 Gerrard 502 Robinson 502

The Legislative Assembly of Manitoba Debates and Proceedings are also available on the Internet at the following address: http://www.gov.mb.ca/legislature/hansard/index.html

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	38-5-14a
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	38th 5th hansardpdf 14a.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	339d4b71cf4a4836d25edc3a1c9f62b7ac626a85

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (pdf).