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May 28, 2003

37th Parliament, 4th Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2003-May-28 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Wednesday 28 May 2003 Mercredi 28 mai 2003

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

HELICOPTER SERVICES

DOUG KENNEDY

GOVERNMENT ADVERTISING

HOSPITAL SERVICES

ROSS POWLESS

ONTARIO BUDGET

WASTE MANAGEMENT

PREMIER'S RECORD

AWARDS OF EXCELLENCE FOR FIGHTING CRIME

REQUEST FOR OPINION

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON ESTIMATES

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

GRAVESITES OF FORMER

PREMIERS ACT, 2003 /

LOI DE 2003

SUR LES LIEUX DE SÉPULTURE

DES ANCIENS PREMIERS MINISTRES

RON MCNEIL

PHILIP SHRIVE

ORAL QUESTIONS

EDUCATION LABOUR DISPUTE

NURSES

SARS

AUTISM TREATMENT

PUBLIC HEALTH

RURAL ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT

CHILDREN'S SERVICES

SARS

ONTARIO DISABILITY

SUPPORT PROGRAM

GOVERNMENT ASSETS

SMART GROWTH

EDUCATION FUNDING /

FINANCEMENT DE L'ÉDUCATION

TIRE DUMPS

VISITORS

PETITIONS

ALUMINUM SMELTER

SCHOOL BUS SAFETY

GARDE D'ENFANTS

AUDIOLOGY SERVICES

SOCIAL ASSISTANCE

MORTGAGE INTEREST DEDUCTIBILITY

NATIONAL CHILD BENEFIT SUPPLEMENT

AUDIOLOGY SERVICES

GARDE D'ENFANTS

AUDIOLOGY SERVICES

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

ORDERS OF THE DAY

BACK TO SCHOOL

(TORONTO CATHOLIC ELEMENTARY)

AND EDUCATION AND PROVINCIAL SCHOOLS NEGOTIATIONS

AMENDMENT ACT, 2003 /

LOI DE 2003 PRÉVOYANT LE RETOUR

À L'ÉCOLE (SECTEUR ÉLÉMENTAIRE DU

CONSEIL CATHOLIQUE DE TORONTO)

ET MODIFIANT LA

LOI SUR L'ÉDUCATION ET LA

LOI SUR

LA NÉGOCIATION COLLECTIVE DANS

LES ÉCOLES PROVINCIALES

Wednesday 28 May 2003 Mercredi 28 mai 2003

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

HELICOPTER SERVICES

Mr Rick Bartolucci (Sudbury): It seems that the government's motto of "Ontario is open for business" doesn't apply in the case of the Ministry

of Natural Resources when it comes to providing helicopter services. The northern providers, those providers who operate out of northern Ontario, are tired of this government giving contracts to

out-of-province providers. Helicopter companies from Sudbury, Cochrane, Wawa, Longlac and North Bay are tired that this government is not allowing Ontario providers first opportunity. In other

provinces, such as Quebec, Alberta, Manitoba and British Columbia, there is a policy in place where you hire in-province providers first; not so in Ontario.

Let me give you the example, the latest bungling by this government when it comes to giving contracts. Gateway Helicopters out of North Bay and Sudbury bid on a

contract for a LongRanger. They were overlooked for an out-of-province provider at twice the cost, only because the out-of-province provider happened to be close to the scene.

Let me tell you: this government talks the talk about it being open for business, but it doesn't walk the walk. This government should know that in Ontario,

Ontarians deserve first crack at contracts.

DOUG KENNEDY

Mrs Margaret Marland (Mississauga South): It is with great sadness that I inform this House that Ontario has lost a distinguished former member

of provincial Parliament. Doug Kennedy, MPP for Peel South and later Mississauga South, passed away on May 26 in his 87th year.

Doug was a graduate of the Ontario Agricultural College. He also served as a captain in the Canadian army during World War II. Doug was first elected in 1955 to

the South Peel Board of Education, and served as its chairman. He was also chairman of the Toronto Township Hydro Commission.

In 1967, Doug was elected to the Ontario Legislature, where he served with honour until his retirement in 1985. He was parliamentary assistant to the ministers

of education and intergovernmental affairs, and also served as chief government whip.

Always a gentleman with a smile on his face, Doug was also a gentle person -- a true gift in politics. Doug excelled as an advocate for his constituents. He was

uniquely dedicated to looking after people and could always be counted on to follow through in helping anyone with a problem.

Doug leaves his beloved wife, Kay, their cherished adult children, Sue, John, Pat and Janet, and their families, including 10 grandchildren and 12

great-grandchildren. One of 10 children in his own family, Doug is also survived by five brothers, Arthur, Ted, Dick, Hal and Don.

Doug and Kay can be very proud of their fine family and his immense contribution to our community, province and country. He leaves a wonderful legacy of

compassion and dedication to his people throughout all his years in elected public office. We will miss him greatly.

GOVERNMENT ADVERTISING

Mr Bruce Crozier (Essex): You just can't trust Ernie Eves. Eves paid to have a $600,000, 30-page brochure included in every issue of Maclean's

magazine in Ontario. It makes empty boasts about infrastructure spending, perhaps to distract drivers from crumbling roads and dangerous bridges. On page 9 is a glowing tribute by Terry and Roger

Lavergne: "Roger has been a resident since the facility opened," at an Extendicare. `They look after me very well,' he says." That's a quote from Roger Lavergne.

Here's what Terry Lavergne wrote to me recently:

"Since that interview, staff has been cut twice. We've been told to expect more cuts in October.... There are nails coming through the floor tiles, large holes

in the wall. He just gets one bath per week.

"Over the year that my husband has lived at Extendicare, our opinion of this brand new facility has changed drastically. I'm very, very unhappy to have given any

positive publicity to this abysmal situation."

Dalton McGuinty and the Ontario Liberals have a plan to help Roger and Terry Lavergne. We'll set high standards for nursing homes and regularly inspect them to

make sure those standards are being met. We will also outlaw self-promotional government advertising. Voters have a choice: they can choose Ernie Eves putting himself first with a $400-million

binge of government advertising, or they can choose Dalton McGuinty. Choose change, choose government you can trust.

HOSPITAL SERVICES

Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): And don't choose Liberals without a plan.

Interjection.

Mr Bisson: How's it going in Windsor? Things are going well in Windsor, I see.

I just want to report to the House some good developments that are happening up in our particular part of the province. As some of the members of the House here

may know, the federal government now owns but two hospitals across all of Canada, as far as federal hospitals. One of those is in Kingston, Ontario, and, as the good member from Kingston would

know, serves much of the way of services for people in the aboriginal community across Ontario. The other one is up in Moose Factory, in my riding.

The federal government is wanting to get out of the hospital business, and quite frankly I couldn't agree more. The federal government in my view does not do as

good a job as a province does when it comes to providing hospital services and overall providing a continuum of care that is necessary in our modern health care system.

This week in Timmins, leaders from across the James Bay communities, the Chapleau communities, are coming together in order to discuss where we go from here. If

we're going to move from the federal system to provincial system, how do we make sure that at the end of the day a couple of very basic things happen: (1) that treaty and aboriginal rights are

respected -- and I believe that can be done in the provincial system -- (2) that the best possible care is offered to the citizens of the James Bay communities so that they are treated on par with

citizens across this province when it comes to not only hospital services but long-term care and community mental health as well as substance abuse?

We look forward to the process that will ensue, and we'll make sure that the provincial government does what it has to do to make sure that the people of

northern Ontario and James Bay get the best possible hospital system.

ROSS POWLESS

Mr Toby Barrett (Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant): I wish to stand today to recognize the passing of a Canadian legend. Ross Powless, a member of the

Canadian Lacrosse Hall of Fame, passed away at the age of 76. His reputation as an all-star lacrosse player, gentleman and mentor will live on forever in the hearts and minds of those who knew him.

Ross was from Six Nations.

Ross Powless distinguished himself by treating others with the respect they deserved and making his time and wisdom available to those who would seek it.

Throughout his illustrious career as a player, Ross won four Canadian lacrosse championships with the Peterborough Timbermen from 1951 to 1954, including the MVP

award in 1953 and the Tom Longboat award for two separate years as the top Indian athlete in Canada.

Ross also coached the Brantford Warriors to the Canadian Senior B championship in 1968, and the Rochester Chiefs to a Can-Am Lacrosse League championship in

In 1974, Ross coached six of his sons -- he had 14 children in all with his wife, Margaret -- on the Ontario First Nations team, which captured the All-Indian

Nations championship cup.

Ross was committed to his community. He was instrumental in starting Six Nations minor lacrosse and hockey leagues and he also served as a First Nations

government councillor for eight years.

ONTARIO BUDGET

Mr Monte Kwinter (York Centre): A number of highly respected experts reviewed the Eves budget in detail and they say that Ernie Eves is running

a deficit. The Dominion Bond Rating Service says the Eves Magna budget actually shows a "deficit of $1.9 billion." The TD Bank found that the Tory budget is hiding a real deficit of $2 billion this

year. Standard and Poor's says that Ernie's inflated asset sales numbers are "inconsistent with" his "stated objective to take the necessary steps to balance the budget."

The experts agree: Ernie Eves is running a deficit and making promises he can't keep. It's hard to trust Ernie Eves to tell you what he will do, because he won't

tell you what he'll sell. It could be the LCBO, it could be Hydro One, it could be TV Ontario, it could be, as Christina Blizzard of the Toronto Sun speculated today, the Pickering nuclear reactor.

Something is going out the door in a fire sale.

Voters don't need to play guessing games with Dalton McGuinty. He has laid out exactly how he will pay for his plan. Dalton McGuinty has painstakingly shown how

we will hire 8,000 more nurses, invest in the auto sector and lower class sizes, without raising taxes or running a deficit.

A forensic auditor and two senior economists reviewed our income and spending projections. They agree that our plan is prudent and fiscally responsible. Warren

Jestin of Scotiabank wrote, "Your commitment to balancing the budget is both reassuring and an essential ingredient in long-term fiscal planning."

Economist David Hall wrote, "Your fiscal plan produces at least balanced budgets and a prudent reserve every year."

The voters of Ontario have a choice: they can choose Ernie Eves and return to billion-dollar deficits and broken promises, or they can choose Dalton McGuinty and

responsible government you can trust. Choose change.

WASTE MANAGEMENT

Mr Marcel Beaubien (Lambton-Kent-Middlesex): I rise today to speak on an issue that is very important to my constituents in

Lambton-Kent-Middlesex. Having attended a number of public meetings over the past several months dealing with applications for expansions of landfill sites, the importation of hazardous materials

from other jurisdictions and the transportation of Ontario garbage through my riding, my constituents are concerned.

Our government is committed to enhancing environmental protection in Ontario, especially in the area of hazardous waste management. In fact, our hazardous waste

regulations are now the toughest in the province's history and imports actually decreased by 31% between 1999 and 2001. But we can do better, and the way to do that is by dealing with these

products in a way that reduces the need to landfill in the first place.

More than two years ago, I wrote Toronto city council expressing the concerns of my constituents about exporting their garbage, and yet the trucks continue to

roll through my riding. Recently I wrote to my colleague the Minister of the Environment to suggest an examination of alternatives in the management of our waste stream. I believe that as a

government we can and should play a more visionary and proactive role in promoting alternatives to landfilling. After all, I do not have to tell anyone in this House that landfilling is

18th-century technology.

I believe our government should demonstrate worldwide leadership by encouraging and developing a 21st-century approach. It is an approach that requires

meaningful recycling programs, comprehensive composting initiatives and a thorough examination of producing energy from waste technologies, which by the way are being used right now in many

jurisdictions around the world.

PREMIER'S RECORD

Mr Dwight Duncan (Windsor-St Clair): Ernie Eves is Ernie Eves's worst critic. Let's hear what Ernie Eves said about his own platform.

Here's one about how Ontario can't afford mortgage deductibility. Ernie Eves said, "When I presented the cost to the Premier of the day, he asked me what drugs I

was on. `You can't go there.'"

Here's Ernie Eves on banning teachers' strikes. Eves said that this type of "dogmatic approach" is the politics of the past.

How about this one on the private school tax credit? "These tax credits should be available only to parents whose children are in schools that teach the

curriculum set out by the Ministry of Education."

What about Ernie Eves on jailing the homeless? Here's what Ernie Eves said, "Homelessness is not a crime."

Frankly, it's impossible to tell what Ernie Eves believes and just what he pretends to believe. As Ernie Eves himself said about the very ideas in his platform,

"When we're throwing out these neat solutions scratched on the back of an envelope, we might want to think about what the cost is and if we really want to go there." Well, well, well.

Let's contrast that with Dalton McGuinty, who has laid out a plan that he stands behind. It will mean excellence in education, growing strong and safe

communities, achieving our economic potential, the health care we need and government that works for all of the people of Ontario for a change. Ontario Liberals believe this. Dalton McGuinty.

Choose change. Choose real change. Vote Liberal.

AWARDS OF EXCELLENCE FOR FIGHTING CRIME

Mr Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): I rise today to publicly honour three organizations and individuals in my riding of Parry Sound-Muskoka

who are recipients of the Ontario Crime Control Commission's 2003 Awards of Excellence For Fighting Crime.

First, Muskoka Victim Services was nominated because of their 24-hour-a-day, seven-days-a-week response to emergencies. Working with the OPP, fire departments

and emergency health care services, they provide crisis assistance, support and referrals to community services. Led by executive director Ginny Kernohan and program director Maureen Trimble,

volunteers responded to 831 calls and served 1,866 victims between 1998 and 2002.

Second, Mr Tom Berry was nominated because of his work with the Alternatives for Youth in Muskoka program, where he has been program coordinator since July 1999.

With Mr Barry's determination community justice circles, based on native sentencing circle models, were developed. Between April 2000 and December 2002, 86 youths have been referred to the circles.

Only seven have reoffended.

Third, Mr Lyle Cathcart was nominated because of his work as president of Bracebridge Community Policing Committee Inc. Under his leadership, this committee has

brought the victim crisis assistance and referral service program to the district of Muskoka to support victims of crime and initiated the inmate volunteer program, which encourages pro-social

attitudes and behaviours among volunteer inmates who assist charities in Muskoka and beyond.

I would ask that all members of the House join me in congratulating the three recipients from Parry Sound-Muskoka.

REQUEST FOR OPINION

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): I beg to inform the House that pursuant to

section 30 of the Members' Integrity Act, 1994, I have today laid upon

the table a request from the member for Kenora-Rainy River to the Honourable Coulter Osborne, Integrity Commissioner, for an opinion on whether the Honourable Ernie Eves, Premier of Ontario, and

the Honourable Tony Clement, Minister of Health and Long-Term Care, have contravened the act or a Ontario parliamentary convention.

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON ESTIMATES

Mr Gerard Kennedy (Parkdale-High Park): Pursuant to standing order 59(

a) and 60(a), I beg leave to present a report from the standing committee

on estimates on the estimates selected and not selected by the standing committee for consideration.

Clerk at the Table (Mr Todd Decker): The standing committee on estimates presents the committee's report as follows:

Pursuant to standing order 59, your committee has selected the estimates 2003-04 of the following offices and ministries for consideration:

Ministry of Finance: 5 hours;

Ministry of Education: 10 hours;

Ministry of Energy: 15 hours;

Ministry of Training, Colleges and Universities: 7 hours, 30 minutes;

Ministry of Enterprise, Opportunity and Innovation: 7 hours, 30 minutes;

Ministry of Agriculture and Food: 7 hours, 30 minutes;

Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care: 7 hours, 30 minutes;

Ministry of Municipal Affairs and Housing: 7 hours, 30 minutes;

Ministry of Community, Family and Children's Services, 7 hours, 30 minutes;

Ministry of Consumer and Business Services, 7 hours, 30 minutes;

Ministry of Citizenship, 7 hours, 30 minutes.

Pursuant to standing order 60, the estimates, 2003-04, of the following ministries and offices not selected for consideration --

Interjection: Dispense.

The Speaker: Dispense? Dispensed.

Pursuant to standing order 60(b), the report of the committee is deemed to be received, and the estimates of the ministries and offices named therein as not

being selected for consideration by the committee are deemed to be concurred in.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

GRAVESITES OF FORMER

PREMIERS ACT, 2003 /

LOI DE 2003

SUR LES LIEUX DE SÉPULTURE

DES ANCIENS PREMIERS MINISTRES

Mr Peters moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 67,

An Act to preserve the gravesites of former premiers of Ontario / Projet de loi 67, Loi visant à conserver les lieux de sépulture des

anciens premiers ministres de l'Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

The member for a short statement?

Mr Steve Peters (Elgin-Middlesex-London): This bill permits the Minister of Culture to mark the gravesites of former Premiers of Ontario and

permits the minister to make agreements for the care and preservation of such gravesites. In marking the gravesites, the minister shall comply with the bylaws of the cemetery where the gravesite is

located and shall respect the wishes of the family of the deceased Premier.

RON MCNEIL

Hon Norman W. Sterling (Attorney General, minister responsible for native affairs): I'd like to seek unanimous consent to make some remarks,

and for other members of other parties to make some remarks, about the passing of Ron McNeil from Elgin, a former MPP.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Is there unanimous consent? Agreed.

Hon Mr Sterling: Ron McNeil was a member of this Legislature for 29 years, from 1958 to 1987. I got to know Ron between 1977 and 1987 when we

served coincidentally here in the legislative chamber, and I gained a tremendous amount of respect for Ron.

Ron was a man of small physical stature but really was a man of great integrity. He was rather quiet -- he didn't speak in the Legislature very often -- but he

was really very much respected by all members of the House. When he did speak, he was listened to very, very closely, because at that point in time he not only had the experience but the wisdom of

his years of service and was recognized for that.

Ron was parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Agriculture for, I believe, five or six years from, I would guess, about 1977 to 1985. During that period of

time, Lorne Henderson, the MPP for Lambton, was the Minister of Agriculture. In a lot of ways, the two were inseparable during that period of time, and they created quite a sight when seen

together. Lorne was a very large and very tall man, and was one of those people from our agricultural community who had developed very, very large hands from milking cows when he was a young lad,

and Ron was a very diminutive character. At any rate, Ron had a great sense of humour as well.

He was known in his constituency for doing tremendous work. I could never forget Premier Davis saying during a caucus meeting that there were two members in

the caucus who wrote more letters to him as Premier -- five times as many letters I think the number was -- than the other members, and the two were Jack Johnson from Wellington and Ron McNeil.

Both of them were known very much as constituency people. Ron was very much tied to the agricultural community and was very well respected for that.

He loved the area he represented around Elgin, where he lived. Ron really surprised us in about 1986 or 1987. He was a bachelor until he was about 65 years of

age. One week he came back to the Legislature and let us know he'd gotten married on the weekend. We just didn't picture this as happening that late in his life. Nobody was even aware that Ron was

courting Doris, who unfortunately predeceased him in the year 2000, but Ron was very happy during his period of marriage with Doris. We all got to know both of them very well and we loved them

both.

One of the other things about Ron was that he had this self-deprecating humour that he engaged in when he was talking about himself and his constituents. If

you would bear with me, Mr Speaker, I just want to read a few remarks which I think give the Legislature some idea of Mr McNeil, both from his standpoint and from that of the opposition. I'm going

to read from Mr Nixon, who was the finance minister in 1987 when Ron was celebrating his 29th anniversary here in the Legislature. This is from the Hansard:

"The two of us have often participated in debates in this House.... I have the greatest respect for the member for Elgin's experience and his ability to put

forward the judgement based on that experience associated with his long-term responsibilities in his local community and particularly in the agricultural community. I have special reason to feel

very warm towards our" relationship.

"The member for Bellwoods indicated that the member for Elgin is one of the few Conservatives in southwestern Ontario, but it was not always thus. While I

would say he is philosophically established in the right party, in his early days he was quite influenced by the great Mitchell F. Hepburn, who was also a representative from Elgin. He even messed

around just slightly with the Liberals until better judgement put him on the straight and narrow, which he has followed ever since.

"I have always had a feeling of some regret that the Liberals were not more aggressive in seeing that the member for Elgin was a candidate for us, but

sometimes you miss out on the good ones. Anyway, we have had a long and pleasant association in this House, and I want to congratulate" him.

Then when we go on, Mr Speaker, if you ever read the speech, you would find out a little bit about the history of the House, how much the members were paid way

back in the 1950s. I think it was $2,300 at that time and $1,300 in expenses -- just slightly under what we receive today.

The other part of it is that he was congratulated at that time by everyone. I would also say that in 1986, on his 28th anniversary, Premier Peterson said, "The

member has the affection of each one of us. He has taught us all that partisanship must be kept in its place in this House and that it should never get in the way of friendship, congeniality and

mutual respect."

I think those words really reflect the respect Ron McNeil had in this Legislature and indeed in his community. He lived a long life. After he left this place,

I'm told he still participated very much in his community. A road in his community was named after Ron, which he considered very important.

I think Ron McNeil will go down in the history of the Legislature as one of those MPPs who never forgot where he came from, and during all that time he served

everyone who came to him for help.

Mr Steve Peters (Elgin-Middlesex-London): Ron McNeil represented the riding for 29 years, seven months and 10 days. Like many members of this

Legislature, he began his career on a municipal council, serving first on the municipal council of South Dorchester in 1946. He served as reeve of South Dorchester from 1949 to 1952, and in 1952 he

was elected warden of Elgin county, the same year that Elgin county celebrated its 100th anniversary, and he served as one of the honorary chairmen.

He was first elected in a by-election in 1958, and it's very interesting to read some of Mr McNeil's comments from Hansard: "One of the reasons for holding the

by-election on a Thursday -- and at that time, the date of the by-election was set by the Premier, not by statute -- was that Mr Frost" -- the Premier -- "did not like to have a by-election or an

election on a Monday, because it interfered with the housewives' washing. Wednesday was out because we had half holidays for the businessmen. That left Tuesday and Thursday. Friday was out because

otherwise the weekend would be upset."

Mr McNeil went on to be re-elected eight times, serving as the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Agriculture from 1977 to 1985. When he was defeated

in the 1987 election, he returned to his farm in the village of Lyons. He said at that time, "I haven't retired, you know, I've just changed jobs."

During his career in this Legislature, he saw it grow from 90 seats to 130, and he served under five Premiers: four Conservative and one Liberal.

It was interesting to read Ron's maiden speech in this Legislature in 1958 and see the issues he brought to this Legislature 45 years ago -- issues where he

was very much a visionary and issues that still affect Elgin county today. He spoke about the tourism industry and the important role it played in the local economy. He recognized the need for good

roads and that government "should continue to improve our highways and through financial assistance help municipalities build better county and township roads." He spoke about tobacco: "We are in a

riding that is proud of our tobacco growers and the contribution they've made to the economy of this province." He also made reference to the millions of dollars that the provincial and federal

governments derived from tobacco revenue, and we know they continue to derive those dollars today.

He also recognized the diversity that existed in the agricultural industry and that the province needed to provide research and extension services to

agriculture. "A healthy agriculture is the backbone of the economy of this province," Mr McNeil said.

It's interesting as well that in 1959 he highlighted another issue that is still very much present and affects those of us who represent ridings on the north

shore of Lake Erie today, and that is erosion: "I appeal to this government for assistance in the control of this very serious problem. Each year acres of valuable farmland are slipping into the

lake -- land, of course, that is lost from agricultural production forever." He advocated for that in 1959, and it's an issue that I know Mr McNeil would still be advocating for today.

It was interesting as well that when he first arrived here in 1958, most of the members in this Legislature stayed at the Royal York Hotel, and the cost was $5

a night. The salary at that time was $2,600 a year, but you also received $1,300 for expenses. But some things have changed. At that time there were no offices for members. Many of us have seen the

little coat racks around the building that once served as offices for members. Members had no staff at the time. Ron recalled, in one of the tributes in the Legislature, that "Mr Frost said that

every member was entitled to a desk, and that desk was right here. It was not anything unusual to come into the House in the morning and see various members of all political parties dictating to

... secretaries, who belonged to a pool. I do not recall ever having any filing system. I guess if a member had a filing system, he had to take it home, because there was no office space here for

files."

I got an opportunity to know Ron over the years. I would stop in and visit him or run into him at various functions in the county because, as the honourable

member said earlier, he was very dedicated to people, and he continued to serve his community in various capacities over the years. He talked about some of the days before the advent of

constituency offices, something that we all take for granted here, but constituency offices weren't always here. Ron talked about the fact that you worked from your home or your car and you were

expected to make house calls regularly, many things that we still do today, but again, you were responsible for that at your home.

In reading Hansard and speaking with individuals, he was described as one of the real grassroots Ontarians in this Legislature. Ron McNeil certainly served

with honour, integrity, distinction and dignity. He recognized -- and I think this is most important -- the importance of representing the people of his riding and ensuring that their views were

expressed, either here in the Legislature or directly to ministers, and of treating each of his constituents equally and not judging anybody by any party colour.

One thing he spoke of was something that I've not experienced, unfortunately. There's a bit of this camaraderie that exists, but I don't think it exists like

it used to. He talked about the assembly at the time and the non-partisan friendship and camaraderie that did exist in this building. You were partisan in the Legislature and you were partisan at a

committee meeting, but when you walked out the door, you were friends and you spoke to one another. It was not uncommon that members of all political parties would spend time and have dinner

together, or sit down and play some cards here in the building. That was very common.

I think his pride and joy, and probably one of his biggest legacies -- and Ron left many legacies -- was the establishment of the Ontario Police College in

Aylmer in 1971. Ron was always proud of that facility, a facility we know continues to serve police services across this province.

Ron was not a tall man. But it was very common at functions for the emcee to ask, "Ron McNeil, please stand up and be recognized." He would always come back

with the line -- and he used it in the Legislature -- "But I am standing."

Ron was predeceased by his wife, Doris, whom he married in 1985. He's survived by his brother Alex, his sister Dora and numerous nieces and nephews.

He was always active in a wide variety of organizations. He had been awarded the Queen's jubilee medal in 2002 and was inducted into the Elgin County

Agricultural Hall of Fame in 2003. In a tribute, Larry Grossman told the Legislature at the time, "If Ontario and Canada ever had a Will Rogers of their own, I would want to nominate the member

from Elgin as our own Will Rogers."

Ron McNeil put people first. He was a tireless representative of all his constituents, and this is a trait that each one of us should bear in mind every

day.

Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): New Democrats join others in this Legislature in paying tribute to Ronald Keith McNeil, and indeed mourning

his loss and his passing. For almost 30 years he was here in this Legislature, from his first by-election in 1958 until 1987, and even before that, at the age of 26, being elected locally in 1946

in township politics in his own community, down there in the riding of Essex.

He has been described as self-deprecating, and indeed the reference by Grossman to him as a Will Rogers character is illustrated perhaps back in 1985, when

after almost three decades of being part of government, albeit as a backbencher, he found himself in opposition ranks. An

article by Nick Martin in the London Free Press from June 1985 quotes Ron

McNeil as saying, "It's not impossible to adjust. I'm just fortunate to be here after I've seen what happened to some of my colleagues in southwestern Ontario." The

article goes on, "McNeil, a

career backbencher who has never sat in cabinet, said he has placed questions to Conservative ministers during question period in his 27 years in the Legislature. `But I can't recall right offhand

what they were.'"

He was here certainly when the manner of doing business was far different than it has been in the recent past.

Mr Peters made references to card games here in the building. I understand there were a few down at the Royal York Hotel, that indeed Queen's Park and the

precinct was not the only venue for government business to be conducted. That in and of itself isn't a bad thing, because as I recall what so many veterans of that period have been able to tell me

and my colleagues, there were ways of getting things done and achieving goals in a far more civil and collegial manner than what many of us have witnessed in the recent past.

Mr Peters made references to Mr McNeil's having to be here for almost 30 years before he saw and served with five Premiers. Heck, I was only here but seven

years and I had already seen three Premiers. Times certainly have changed. Mr McNeil had to wait almost 30 years to see five, and by the time I had been here seven years -- I've been here 15 now --

I had seen three, and some suggest I may well see yet more before my parliamentary career is over.

Mr McNeil was undoubtedly held in the highest regard by his community, not only as a young man and then as the representative for his community, but also in

his senior years. Undoubtedly, as press reports confirm, he kept touch with his community and his community kept in touch with him.

As it has been noted, he married late. He and his wife were married at a point in their lives when children were most unlikely, and indeed there weren't any. I

say to the people of the riding of Elgin, to Mr McNeil's extended family, to his friends, his neighbours and his community, that they can be proud of having had amongst their friends and

neighbours, and as their political representative, a person with the character, commitment and passion for public service that Mr McNeil had. New Democrats join others in this Legislature in

extending our regrets to extended family, friends and his community and acknowledging his significant and profound contribution to politics here in the province of Ontario.

The Speaker: I thank all members for their kinds words and will ensure copies of Hansard are sent to family and friends.

PHILIP SHRIVE

Hon Robert W. Runciman (Minister of Public Safety and Security): I believe we have unanimous consent for all parties to say a few words on the

passing of OPP Senior Constable Philip Shrive in the line of duty.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Is there unanimous consent? Agreed.

Hon Mr Runciman: There are 215 names on the Ontario Police Memorial that's just a few steps from this chamber. It is with the greatest of

sadness that I rise in the House today to say that next year another name will be added to that growing list.

As many members of the House know, Senior Constable Philip Ray Shrive died last Friday of injuries he sustained in the line of duty. Premier Eves, official

opposition leader Mr McGuinty and I attended the funeral in Renfrew yesterday and extended the condolences of the people of Ontario and this House to Constable Shrive's family.

Phil Shrive proudly served the Ontario Provincial Police and the people of the province proudly and well for 30 years. He was a family man who leaves behind a

wife and four children. He was a dedicated officer who was respected by his peers and members of the community. He was committed to the welfare of his fellow officers, serving as a branch president

of the Ontario Provincial Police Association. These are the simple facts of Constable Shrive's life. We are left to fill in the details of what those 30 years of service have meant to the

communities where he served.

Phil Shrive wanted to be a police officer. He knew the challenges and sacrifices the job would demand. In 1973, he joined the OPP family as a civilian radio

operator, helping officers on the front lines. In September 1974, Phil took a momentous step when he donned the uniform of the OPP, a uniform he would wear proudly for the next 29 years. It must

have been a momentous day for everyone in the Shrive family as his older brother Paul presented him with his badge and warrant card.

This was the beginning of a career that would see Phil Shrive posted to a variety of detachments across the province, beginning in Sioux Lookout. As he was

transferred to different detachments, Constable Shrive performed a variety of duties in the service of many communities. When he was in Downsview, he worked in motorcycle traffic enforcement. In

Oak Ridges and Shelburne, he continued doing general patrol duties. In 1989, he went to South Porcupine, where he worked as an ident officer. In 1996, he transferred to the West Carleton

detachment, where he worked as a community services officer in schools. He also had a stint as a media relations officer. As well, he found special joy in his time as a marine officer helping to

keep Ontario's waterways safe.

Constable Shrive worked long and hard to make the communities where he served safer for everyone. He was on traffic duty with the Renfrew detachment on May 16

when he was in a collision while performing his duties. The injuries in that accident claimed his life last Friday.

Phil Shrive gave everything in the performance of his duties, but his contribution reached beyond the demands of the job. He served for 10 years, until his

death, as a branch president of the Ontario Provincial Police Association, working diligently on behalf of his fellow officers.

I knew Phil through his association activities, and I can personally vouch for his willingness to put forward the best interests of his brother and sister OPP

officers. Perhaps "enthusiasm" is a better word when it came to letting me know his views. Phil was not a shy man.

His brother Paul, who is a retired OPP chief superintendent and currently the chief of police in Port Moody, BC, said, "His work with the OPPA was his proudest

accomplishment. He was deeply concerned about the welfare of his fellow officers. I think that will be his legacy."

Constable Shrive was also a licensed fixed-wing pilot and an enthusiastic builder of radio control model aircraft.

He leaves behind his much-loved wife, Karen, and four children, Neil, Karen, Graham and Rebecca, and his mother and father. His family was by his side when he

passed away.

As much as the communities Constable Shrive served and his fellow officers feel his loss, we can barely conceive of the void his family must feel at his

passing.

I know everyone in this House joins me in extending our most sincere condolences and respect to everyone in the Shrive family.

Senior Constable Phil Shrive was the embodiment of the motto engraved on the Ontario Police Memorial. He was truly a hero in life, not death.

Mr Dave Levac (Brant): Having met and known Phil, it is with great sadness and respect that I rise today on behalf of Dalton McGuinty and the

Liberal caucus to pay tribute to Senior Constable Phil Shrive.

Constable Shrive died on May 23, 2003, succumbing to injuries he suffered in a two-vehicle collision on Highway 17 on May 16, 2003, while in the line of duty.

A member of the Ontario Provincial Police family since 1972-73, Constable Shrive also served as branch president in the Ontario Provincial Police Association from 1993 to 2003. This tells us a

story of leadership, dedication and compassion for his fellow officers, not to mention the personal sacrifice one makes in leadership.

As a police officer, Constable Shrive gave the ultimate sacrifice in service to the province of Ontario, and in particular to his community of Renfrew. My

colleague and friend Sean Conway, the member representing this area, along with the Premier, Minister Runciman and my leader, Dalton McGuinty, and others, attended the funeral services for

Constable Shrive.

Ladies and gentlemen, the presence and acknowledgements from members of all three parties were

an act of goodwill and respect, and all of us in this House

thank you for representing the Legislature, as I am sure it was appreciated by the Shrive family and his colleagues. We all offer our personal heartfelt sympathies to the family and friends of

constable Shrive. A dutiful son, a good brother and a loving husband, Constable Shrive leaves his grieving wife Karen and four children, Neil, Karen, Graham and Rebecca. To the Shrive family,

relatives and friends, we offer our deepest sympathies and prayers as you continue your journey in life.

Today, as we honour and celebrate the triumph of the special life of Constable Phil Shrive, let us be reminded of the special and important job all our public

safety personnel do for us day in and day out. I offer words of reflection for all of us:

Take time to think -- thoughts are the source of power.

Take time to play -- play is the secret of perpetual youth.

Take time to read -- reading is the fountain of wisdom.

Take time to pray -- prayer can be a rock of strength in a time of trouble.

Take time to love -- loving is what makes living worthwhile.

Take time to be friendly -- friendships give life a precious flavour.

Take time to laugh -- laughter is the music of the soul.

Take time to give -- any day of the year is too short for selfishness.

Take time to do your work well -- pride in your work, no matter what it is, nourishes the ego and the spirit.

Finally, take time to appreciate -- thanks is the frosting on the cake of life.

Speaker, he and others are heroes in life, not in death.

Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): Howard Hampton and every member of this NDP caucus express our sincere condolences to Phil Shrive's wife

Karen and to his four children, as well as to Phil Shrive's colleagues in the detachment in which he most recently served and colleagues in detachments in which he served across this province, from

Downsview to South Porcupine, in a variety of roles, and as well to members of those communities whose lives were undoubtedly touched by Senior Constable Phil Shrive in the course of his

performance of those duties. He will truly be missed by oh so many.

He truly was not just a talented police officer but a multi-talented police officer. The diversity of positions he held and the incredible range of skills he

acquired and perfected in performing those diverse roles speak of an incredibly competent and also committed police officer. In the motorcycle detachment out of Downsview -- and I put to you that

those of us who know police officers who are in the motorcycle detachments know they have a passion for their motorcycles. In Senior Constable Shrive's case, it was compounded by his passion for

flying, because people don't fly without a passion for flying, and people don't ride motorcycles without a passion for motorcycles.

He clearly had a passion for his job and for his fellow police officers. Not only was he an association activist, but he took on the responsibilities of

leadership in the OPPA. So he served his community -- those Ontarians who were the beneficiaries of his OPP service -- but he also served his fellow officers. He undoubtedly wanted to make the

province a better and safer place for all Ontarians, and he undoubtedly wanted to make policing a better and safer place for all police officers.

So we join in the tribute being paid to him today. We acknowledge the risk that police officers and other emergency personnel undertake every time they embark

on their jobs. The tragedy of an active-duty police officer having to give his life in the course of performing his job is difficult to parallel. There will be a tribute to him, of course, in the

monument here at Queen's Park, but more importantly, the legacy he has left behind in terms of his service to his communities, his service to his province, his service to his colleagues, his fellow

police officers, will survive decades and generations. New Democrats hope that the regard with which Senior Constable Phil Shrive is held, not only in this Legislature but in communities across

this province, will provide some modest comfort to his children, his wife, his family, his friends, his neighbours and his fellow police officers.

The Speaker: I'd like to thank members for their kind comments, and I will ensure that they get sent to the family as well.

Mr Dwight Duncan (Windsor-St Clair): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: We were informed that the Premier would be in attendance at question

period.

The Speaker: As you know, the Speaker can't do anything about that. He may be in the back and coming. We don't seem to be able to rag the puck

in this instance.

ORAL QUESTIONS

EDUCATION LABOUR DISPUTE

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): My question, then, is to the Minister of Education. Now that the Premier has decided not to

call an election, we're wondering if, over there on that side of the House, you're going to stop playing political games with the 69,000 Toronto schoolchildren who are not able to attend their

classes. We believe that those kids belong in the classroom, and we've introduced a bill that would accomplish just that.

I know that you wanted to feed this crisis because you believed it would help your political fortunes. But the election is off, and we're wondering if you

might at the same time call off the political gamesmanship. Why not support our bill to get kids back to school as soon as possible?

Hon Elizabeth Witmer (Deputy Premier, Minister of Education): The Leader of the Opposition talks about political gamesmanship. The leader and

his party have had the opportunity since we introduced the back-to-school legislation last week to ensure that the students could go back into the classroom. If he really believes in putting

students first, he and his party should support our bill and get the kids back into the classroom. What is it that you have against putting our students first?

Mr McGuinty: Why can't we be honest about this? It takes a lot of work to get all three parties to agree on any kind of legislation in this

House, but you have to be especially careful if you want to introduce back-to-work legislation. It has to be clean, it has to be honest and it has to be straightforward. It can't have anything that

is controversial inside of it.

That's what we've introduced. We've introduced a clean, straightforward, honest bill. You've been playing games. You've introduced an element that you know

only too well would be controversial. It seems to me that if you genuinely wanted to get those kids back to the classroom, you would support our bill because it's a genuine effort to ensure that we

put forward something that's based on the kinds of models that have been used by all three parties in the past. It's clean, it's honest, it's straightforward and it accomplishes nothing more than

getting kids back in the classroom. Why won't you support our bill?

Hon Mrs Witmer: Does the Leader of the Opposition not agree that allowing teachers to complete report cards, particularly at this time of the

year, is something that teachers should be doing? Does he not agree that they should be administering EQAO tests? Does he not support, particularly at the end of the school year, meetings between

teachers, parents and students? Does he not support teachers being involved in co-op placements? Does he not agree that there should be an opportunity for teachers and students to participate in

graduation ceremonies?

This member doesn't put students first. He's putting political opportunism first.

Mr McGuinty: Madam Minister, you may not be able to distinguish between a campaign promise that you want to run on and the urgent matter

before us, which is to get 69,000 kids back in their classrooms. That's what we're trying to do here today. That's all we're trying to do, just get 69,000 kids back in the classroom, and that's all

that our bill does -- nothing less and nothing more. It is purposely and deliberately clean, honest and straightforward.

I want to raise something else with you, Madam Minister. In addition to our concern about 69,000 kids in the Catholic board being locked out of the classroom,

there is a very real fear now that something untoward is going to happen at Toronto's public board. Your own supervisor has now said that he has a deadline for ending negotiations for this Sunday.

He's not just playing hardball with teachers; he's playing hardball with students.

I think this is getting out of hand, and I have a question for you on behalf of the parents of those 200,000 kids going to the public board at the elementary

level. Will you guarantee parents and students that the Toronto public board, now under your control, will not proceed with a lockout?

Hon Mrs Witmer: The member opposite knows full well that this government has worked hard this past year in order to create a stable

environment for teachers and for students. We have invested $680 million to ensure that settlements can be arrived at, and it is our hope that today the Leader of the Opposition would encourage his

members to pass our bill in order that we can avoid strikes and lockouts and work-to-rule, and put our students first.

NURSES

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): I didn't get an answer on that one, Speaker. I'll try another minister now, the Minister of

Health.

Minister, SARS, as you well know, continues to devastate us. Front-line workers, as you know, are doing their very best, but your failure to hire full-time

nurses is making things worse. There are at least 12,000 registered nurses in Ontario working at two or more jobs in two or more health care settings. That means that nurses can and are in fact

becoming suspected carriers of SARS from one health care setting to another.

You may be aware that there was a nurse at North York General who is suspected to have contracted SARS there. She also happens to work at the Toronto Rehab.

Not only is the North York General now closed but the Toronto Rehab, as a result of this nurse working in both locations, has now closed two wings and quarantined a total of five nurses at

home.

Since the outbreak, you have done absolutely nothing to hire more full-time nurses in Ontario. Why not, Minister?

Hon Tony Clement (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I want to assure the honourable member and members of this Legislature that it is a

top priority of this government to hire more nurses -- full-time nurses, part-time nurses, nurses who want to make that choice. The fact is that in the last five years there have been 12,833 new

nursing positions as a result of a direct infusion of $800 million by the provincial government, and 8,555 of those are full-time positions. Indeed, there are more full-time nursing positions in

Ontario than at any time since statistics have been kept, at least in the last 18 years, and they are the highest-paid nurses in the Dominion of Canada.

Of course, there is more to do, and I certainly indicate to the honourable member that that's why we want to graduate 8,000 new nurses over the next three

years. That's why we'll pay the tuition for those who want to work in underserviced areas. That is our plan for more nurses in Ontario.

Mr McGuinty: Here's the truth on this score, Minister. First of all, you've done absolutely nothing to hire more full-time nurses since the

first outbreak of SARS. Second, we have the second-fewest nurses per capita in comparison to all the other provinces right across the country.

We now learn that instead of hiring full-time nurses in our public hospitals, you're bringing in part-time, private emergency nurses at a cost two to three

times what it would take to hire a full-time nurse, fully employed inside the public health care system. We learned last night that North York General Hospital brought in 10 nurses from the private

firm Med-Emerg, at a cost of between $70 and $100 an hour. That money could and should have been spent to hire full-time nurses.

Minister, I ask again: why are you not hiring full-time nurses in Ontario, especially since the first outbreak of SARS?

Hon Mr Clement: I don't think we should make apologies for ensuring that as a result of quarantine and sickness we have the right nurses,

doctors and other medical practitioners to deal with SARS cases or with the other 99% of what occurs in our health care system. That, I think, is prudent and wise to do. It's the right thing to do

from a clinical perspective and from a public policy perspective.

If the honourable member was interested in solving this problem, his point should be that we need long-term strategies. That's why we are graduating 8,000

nurses from our post-secondary system, that's why we're ensuring they have free tuition if they want to practise in underserviced areas, that's why we're the first province in Canada to invest

substantially in nurse practitioners -- all part of our comprehensive, long-term nursing strategy -- and that's why those strategies are going to work.

I would say to any prospective nurse in Ontario, throughout Canada or anywhere in the world, "You are welcome in Ontario. We have an excellent health care

system. We have the highest remuneration" --

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): The minister's time is up.

Mr McGuinty: Minister, you've had eight long years to develop a long-term strategy. We're not in the position today where we can capably cope

with these kinds of medical emergencies. Your strategy with respect to nurses has been to fire them by the thousands. You cost Ontario taxpayers $400 million in severance costs to fire nurses.

Nurses by the thousands now working outside Ontario said they would love to come back to our province. Seventy per cent said they would come back to our province on condition that they had

full-time work. They're not here. We don't have enough here because you're not giving them full-time work.

I ask you again, Minister: why is it that after eight years we find ourselves in a position where we can barely cope with these medical emergencies? Why have

we ended up with the second-fewest nurses per capita in the country? Why are we hiring private, part-time nurses at a cost of $70 to $100 an hour? Why have you failed to ensure that we have enough

full-time nurses on the job in Ontario to help us manage SARS?

Hon Mr Clement: I can only tell you --

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. Thank you.

Sorry, Minister.

Hon Mr Clement: I think the honourable member should have a reality check on his own party's record when they were in government. In Hansard,

it was indicated on May 16, 1990, that 80 placements were cut down to 35 placements "as a direct result of Liberal policies for funding."

The Toronto Star headline for May 9, 1989: "30-year Nurse Blames Dad's Death on Nursing Shortages at Hospital."

The Windsor Star, January 25, 1989: "Most nurses are disillusioned. They want more money, more respect and more say in decision-making."

Those were the headlines in the province of Ontario under a Liberal government. We can't afford a Liberal government for reasons of taxes, we can't afford a

Liberal government with respect to reckless spending and we certainly can't afford a Liberal government because of their prior attitude and their record when it comes to supporting the nursing

profession in Ontario. We need a government that cares, and we care.

SARS

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is to the Minister of Health. In reference to SARS, you now talk about a "new normal," but

it looks like the same old thing. On May 20, nurses at two hospitals raised concerns about possible SARS cases. They worried about their safety and urged precautions. That was two days before you

closed St John's and three days before a quarantine order.

We now have experts saying your government let the guard against SARS down too early. They say you've been playing with semantics and classifications about

what constitutes a SARS case when you should have been putting the safety of our health care workers and our patients first.

Minister, why did it take three days to put in place a quarantine order after nurses told you they suspected SARS?

Hon Tony Clement (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I will answer factually, despite the fact that the question was not factual.

The simple answer is that as soon as the public health branch of the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care and I, as the minister, learned of this, we swung

into action. That occurred Thursday afternoon and Thursday evening. We had a press conference to let the world know what was going on by Thursday evening. So the answer to your question is, as soon

as we learned of a situation that we were not aware of before, we acted.

Mr Hampton: One would think that with such a very serious disease, it shouldn't take three days to put in place a quarantine. These are the

very hospital workers who worked themselves virtually to exhaustion in the first place.

We found out something else that is disturbing. We're told now that it's all hands on deck, that screening is to be put in place, but at the very time this is

supposedly happening, hospital workers at Humber River Regional Hospital, Finch and Church Street sites, were told today they are being laid off. Minister, if it's all hands on deck, if this is

truly a case of making sure that this is contained, does it make any sense that hospital workers who are on the front line are being told they are now going to take layoffs?

Hon Mr Clement: Forgive me if I don't take your word on it, but I will look into the matter, of course. The short answer to your question is,

of course not. We want our health care system to function properly. We want it to function with the most available personnel. So assuming there is a scintilla or a granule of truth in what you

said, I'll certainly look into it.

Mr Hampton: I'll make it easy for you. The head of the hospital is Dr Reuben Devlin, who is the president of the Ontario Conservative Party.

What is even more alarming is that --

Interjection: No, he's not.

Mr Hampton: Well, the former president, then.

What is even more alarming is that the very hospital workers who are being laid off in this situation constitute 50% of the outpatient care at Humber River.

These are the very people who conduct the screening at the hospital. They are the very people who, when someone comes into the hospital, take the temperature. They do the SARS screening.

Minister, you didn't listen to those nurses, or you didn't listen very quickly to those nurses, who on May 20 said they suspected new SARS cases. Why are you

now laying off the very hospital workers at Humber River who just this morning would have been conducting the SARS screening at that hospital when people came into work?

Hon Mr Clement: I take exception to your accusation that we did not act quickly. That is false. That is without merit. It is, quite frankly,

beneath you, sir, to make that accusation. And don't make faces at me, because this is a serious chamber. If the honourable member has some evidence or information that is real, I suggest he share

it with me. I'd be happy to look into it. And if the honourable member has any information about Humber River Regional that I should know about, certainly I will look into that, but forgive me,

given the nature of your question and the nature of your torquing of the question, if I don't take your word for it.

AUTISM TREATMENT

Ms Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): I have a question to the Minister of Community, Family and Children's Services. Yesterday, Judge Lane

dismissed your government's attempt to appeal the ruling by Justice Gans which forces your government to pay for IBI treatment for six-year-old Andrew Lowrey. In his decision, Judge Lane said,

"This case is about one six-year-old boy who will suffer irreparable harm if he does not receive this treatment." Hundreds of other autistic children like Andrew also face irreparable harm because

your government cuts them off from IBI treatment when they turn age six, because they languish on a waiting list and never receive treatment at all, or because their parents face financial ruin as

they try to pay for this costly treatment themselves.

Minister, when is your government going to do the right thing and fund IBI treatment for all autistic children who need it?

Hon Brenda Elliott (Minister of Community, Family and Children's Services): On this side, we are aware of the decision that was made

yesterday. What that means is our commitment to helping those children and families who struggle with autism remains very strong. I say to the person in the third party across the way, who

criticizes us on a regular basis for our autism programs, that under her government not one cent was ever given to autism. Under our government in 1999, we started a program that has now grown to

$100 million, which responds to the research that says very intensive therapy to those children at the very critical early years is the right way to go. That is the expert advice we are following.

We are supplementing that with a number of new programs, all aimed in one direction, and that is to help the children and the families who are struggling with autism.

Ms Martel: May I remind you, Minister, with respect to your commitment, that it was your government that was in court trying to appeal a

ruling forcing you to pay for treatment for Andrew. That's the level of your commitment to these kids. May I also remind you that right now we have 29 Ontario families taking your government to

court because you have arbitrarily cut off treatment for their children at age six; we have another 80 families who have filed complaints before the Ontario Human Rights Commission, arguing your

government discriminates against their children on the basis of age; we have the Ombudsman, who is doing a special investigation because of the waiting lists for IBI treatments; and yesterday,

Justice Lane dismissed your government's blatant attempt to try and undermine a court ruling that said Andrew's treatment should be paid for? I ask you again, Minister, when is your government

going to do the right thing and pay for IBI treatment for every autistic child who needs it?

Hon Mrs Elliott: Our government understands that autism is a disorder of which the incidence appears to be growing. Researchers all around the

world are trying to find a solution to help the children and families who are struggling with this disorder. That is why it is our government that has instituted not only the intensive behavioural

intervention-type program that responds to the research that says it is the most effective provided at an early age, but we are moving forward with new programs, transition programs from those

early year programs into school age and, for the first time in the history of Ontario, introducing out-of-school programs for children with autism who are of school age, in addition to the special

education programs already offered in the province of Ontario. Why? Because we know that helping children is the right thing to do. That is why this government has $2.2 billion invested in programs

for children.

PUBLIC HEALTH

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): My question is to the Minister of Health. Minister, it was just about a month ago that the

Premier announced "next steps," as he called them. I'm looking at your news release here on the SARS recovery strategy. Included among the specific commitments, it says here, "The province will

assist municipalities to cover SARS-related staffing.... A priority is to reinforce the public health care system to continue the battle against SARS. The government will immediately expand

staffing in public health."

That was back on April 29, nearly a month ago. Can you tell us how much money has now flowed to public health units across the province, but especially here in

Toronto, which is struggling with the throes of another outbreak of SARS?

Hon Tony Clement (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I can tell you that I had a conversation with Mayor Lastman about this just late

last week, and indicated to him that we were very mindful of the Premier's commitment, which was a commitment as a leader in the fight against SARS -- which the Premier is, incidentally.

The fact of the matter is that that is still our commit ment as a government. It still is, in fact, our intention, and

there will be more details in the very near future. The fact of the matter is, as well, that we have an outstanding commitment from the federal Liberal government with respect to the same issue,

and I would encourage the member -- I've sent several letters to the Minister of Health Canada; my colleague the Honourable David Young has sent several letters to the Honourable Minister McCallum.

If he wants to add his name to those letters, perhaps we can get them to move, because they haven't moved to date.

Mr McGuinty: Can you ever deal with a health care issue, especially a health care emergency, and not point the finger of blame at the federal

government? Can you ever provide real leadership? I want to remind you, this is your government's press release that was put out on April 29. You said you were going to "assist municipalities to

cover SARS-related staffing." You said a priority is to reinforce the public health care system to continue the battle against SARS: "The government will immediately expand staffing in public

health." Well, today we spoke to Joe Mihevc. You will know that he's the chair of the Toronto Board of Health. They say that you haven't sent a single penny to cover the costs of SARS, not since

this announcement was made just over a month ago. You have broken your promise. I ask you again, why is it that you are great when it comes to putting out press releases, but you have yet to move

forward and make sure that you actually send money to those people who need it to cope with SARS?

Hon Mr Clement: I'm sorry the honourable member feels that way. I think he might not feel that way at the end of the day. I can definitely

assure you that I had a very fruitful conversation with the mayor of the city of Toronto, who did understand that our commitment was still a commitment that we are going to keep. He was much more

concerned about the lack of follow-through by the federal government of their commitments, their lack of understanding about Toronto and their lack of concern about Ontario and Toronto issues. That

is the more important issue. If you want to be of help to the people of Ontario, you will help us to make sure that Jean Chrétien keeps his word.

RURAL ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT

Mr Wayne Wettlaufer (Kitchener Centre): I have a question for the Associate Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing, responsible for Rural

Affairs. You lead our government's rural programs, which help meet the economic and infrastructure needs of the good people who call rural Ontario home. They're designed that way. Many Ontario

communities can attest to the effectiveness of your ministry's business retention and expansion program, the resource jump teams program, and OSTAR infrastructure programs. Through these programs,

your ministry has improved the quality of life for tens of thousands of rural families all across Ontario.

Recently you visited Kitchener-Waterloo to make an OSTAR rural economic development program announcement. I didn't know you were coming. Can you tell my

constituents and the members of this House a little bit more about the OSTAR RED program?

Hon Ernie Hardeman (Associate Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing): I want to thank the member for Kitchener Centre for his question and

to commend him for his excellent work on behalf of his constituents. I know the member is aware that my priority and the stated priority of the Ernie Eves government is to ensure that rural and

small-town Ontario communities remain viable, healthy and vibrant places in which to live, work and invest.

The OSTAR RED program stimulates economic growth in Ontario. It's part of the Ernie Eves government's commitment to breaking down economic barriers and

creating new opportunities for existing rural businesses. To date, we have invested more than $74 million in 82 approved OSTAR RED projects. These investments have already generated more than $427

million in new economic activity in rural Ontario. This translates into more jobs for rural Ontario and a diversified, healthier business climate in which to explore new products and new

markets.

Mr Wettlaufer: It's good to hear that our programs are working, stimulating economic growth and creating jobs in small-town and rural Ontario.

I congratulate you for your excellent work, but with respect to your recent trip to Kitchener-Waterloo, I wonder if you can provide us with some highlights on the OSTAR RED investment and how it's

going to benefit my riding.

Hon Mr Hardeman: I want to assure the member that it was a great pleasure to be in the Kitchener-Waterloo area. In fact I was in the riding

just north of the honourable member's. It was a very pleasant visit. On that visit we made an announcement that we've invested $314,183 to support the development and growth of the artisan bakery

industry in Ontario through Project M.O.R.E. B.R.E.A.D. This funding, together with equal private sector investment from the project partners, the Artisan Bakers' Quality Alliance, is creating a

partnership between five independently owned artisan bakeries across Ontario. This project addresses removing economic barriers to small artisan bakeries to grow sales, including purchasing

state-of-the-art bread packaging equipment, expanding existing markets and gaining access to new ones. It's an expensive process, but the project partners are on target, not just to preserve

artisan bread-making as a craft in Ontario, but also to grow the brand, achieving $10 million in annual sales under the ABQA brand designation by 2004 and $50 million by 2008. This is exciting news

for --

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): I thank the minister. I'm afraid his time is up.

CHILDREN'S SERVICES

Mrs Leona Dombrowsky (Hastings-Frontenac-Lennox and Addington): My question is for the Minister of Community, Family and Children's Services.

Last night when I asked you to clarify why you are withholding rights information for children in care, you said this issue is not so important. There were no questionable deaths of children in

care for 20 years. Now, on your watch, seven children have died. Maybe that's not important to you, but it is important to me.

The office of the child advocate told me that rights information for children in care had not been provided because it has not been available for three

years.

Matthew Geigen-Miller heard your irresponsible statement last night, and this was his reaction: "The issue of meaningful access to rights and advocacy is very

important. It is literally a life-and-death issue for some children in care."

Minister, why are these kids in care not important to you?

Hon Brenda Elliott (Minister of Community, Family and Children's Services): I find the tone and the content of that question quite frankly

offensive.

I was asked to speak last night in the House with regard to a question that was asked of me in the House a couple of days ago. As I said in my remarks last

night, I thought the questioner was going into a more substantive issue. It ended up being a question about brochures and policies.

I have my notes, and I'll read those out. I indicated last night, and I assured the member opposite, that residential services do have posters and brochures,

and I indicated we're working on new ones. And this is most important, I think, to what the question is about today: for a children's residential service to receive their licence, there are rules

for them to follow regarding notification of children's rights. When a child enters a residential facility, one of the things they must do is notify the child of his or her rights. They have to

document that, and if they do not, their licence can be revoked.

I am offended that someone across the way --

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): The minister's time is up.

Mrs Dombrowsky: Well, Minister, you should do your homework. If you did, you would know that it's the very licensing agents who have been

calling the children's advocate and asking that that information be placed in the homes. They're not revoking licences, because they've been told that information is not available. For three years

they've been told this. The Jobin inquest identified this.

Minister, when your government can spend millions of dollars on partisan advertising, why is it that essential rights information is not available for these

children? This isn't a frill. It isn't a luxury. It's for children in care, and it is their right to have it.

Minister, kids in care are important, and I ask you, I implore you, to act today to provide this rights information, provide them with a Web site and make sure

they get what they deserve.

Hon Mrs Elliott: When I get up to go to work in the morning, the first thing I think about is what I need to do to make the world of children

better in the province of Ontario. I'm offended by this kind of talk. I'm offended by someone who stands in the House and says that I prevented someone from making an annual report, when there's no

requirement for an annual report. There has never been an annual report.

If information was incorrect on a poster, then obviously we would be concerned and would be moving very quickly to change it. But I pointed out last night what

is wrong on the poster. It is true that the office hours of the child advocate have been extended by 15 minutes, and it is true that there has been a change in the name of my ministry. All the

other information on these posters is absolutely accurate. It is available. We are making changes to make new ones because that has been requested, and we are responding. But to suggest for one

moment that I or anybody in my ministry doesn't work extremely hard, diligently and passionately to care about the kids in this province troubles me greatly, that you would even countenance those

words in this House.

Interjections.

SARS

Mr R. Gary Stewart (Peterborough): I can't understand that group there. This happens to be a fairly important question that I appreciate the

opposition doesn't want to listen to. It's to the Minister of Health.

I understand that the leader of the third party asked a question regarding layoffs of front-line health care workers at Humber River Regional Hospital. Can you

give us an update on what you understand the situation to be?

Hon Tony Clement (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I thank the honourable member for the question. There were some details of which

perhaps the leader of the third party was unaware. In fact, there are fewer than 10 health care workers affected by a recent decision to lower the number of people working in the chiropody foot

care unit of the hospital. I can inform this House that they never did any SARS work whatsoever in the foot care unit, nor will it affect the hospital's SARS screening. So it looks like the

honourable leader of the third party has managed to combine feet and his mouth in his question.

Mr Stewart: It kind of amazes me that every time we talk about health care issues, the opposition starts to heckle. I guess they don't have

much faith in or don't really want to know much about health care in this province.

Minister, would you please update us on any new initiatives or programs that have been put in place in the last few days to address the SARS crisis?

Hon Mr Clement: In all seriousness, there was an important announcement made yesterday about an interim alliance among four Toronto-area

hospitals -- the William Osler Health Centre, Etobicoke campus; the General site of the Scarborough Hospital; the North York General Hospital; and St Mike's Hospital as a tertiary unit -- all

working together to have a comprehensive, integrated and coordinated approach when it comes to administering care to any SARS patients.

This is unprecedented in the hospital system. It came about as a result of the voluntary efforts of the hospitals in question. We believe that, having learned

something from the first go-round with SARS, this will better assist us in dealing with SARS patients and making sure they get better quicker, and at the same time ensure that the other 99% of

health care that occurs in our hospital system is done efficiently and safely for patients and health care workers combined.

This is an important step in our ongoing battle against SARS. It does not mean that we can let down our guard, but it's a step --

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): The minister's time is up.

ONTARIO DISABILITY

SUPPORT PROGRAM

Mr Tony Martin (Sault Ste Marie): My question is for the Minister of Community, Family and Children's Services. There are 269,000 people in

this province who rely on ODSP to survive. They haven't had an increase in their payments in 10 years, while the cost of living has gone up nearly 20%. You're forcing people with disabilities to

live in poverty.

Thousands of others are even worse off because your red tape makes it too hard for them to even apply. You and the Liberals are content with a feeble promise

to provide a one-time increase to their rates. What people with disabilities really need is dignity and a stable income that provides an annual cost of living increase. Will you commit today to

adopting the NDP Public Power proposal of linking ODSP payments to the cost of living?

Hon Brenda Elliott (Minister of Community, Family and Children's Services): I find it interesting that a person from the third party would

question me about ODSP rates, completely forgetting that when they were in power, they put this province into something like $42 billion worth of additional debt in five short years, completely

forgetting that all of the money that causes in interest payments is now spent on interest payments and could have gone to programs like disability or for children's programs.

They talk a compassionate talk but when it actually came to acting, they were certainly not compassionate in their actions, not for those who are presently

receiving services, or even when you look at the policies of the day. This is a member of a government who left the disabled on the welfare system to languish. Their benefits had to be renewed

every year. It is our government that said it's time to do something meaningful for the disabled in the province. So we took them out of the welfare system and, for the first time in the province

of Ontario, created an Ontario disability support plan.

Mr Martin: This minister either doesn't understand the question, doesn't have an answer for the question or doesn't want to understand the

question. However, she's also the minister who slept through Walkerton, if you remember.

Yesterday, my colleague Peter Kormos had the Burke family in to Queen's Park. For 10 years, they have had no increase in support payments to care for their

severely disabled daughter. Like people on ODSP, those caring for disabled children deserve supports that meet their needs. Unfortunately, you and the Liberals continue to ignore these calls for

justice and offer a feeble one-time increase.

Minister, I've made your job even easier by introducing yesterday my Fairness in Disability Income Support Payments Act. Will you pass my bill today and index

ODSP payments to the cost of living?

Hon Mrs Elliott: Again, I return to my comments that we are the first government to take those who are disabled off of welfare, putting them

in a program --

Interjection: Blah, blah, blah.

Hon Mrs Elliott: My colleague across the way says, "Blah, blah, blah." Did you know that those who are disabled think that the changes are

very important? They're no longer considered permanently unemployable. We've changed that program so there are special benefits, new asset limits, all sorts of things that the disabled community

found very effective and helpful.

Then it was our government that introduced the Ontarians with Disabilities Act, the first time in the history of Canada we've had

an act just for those who are

disabled. Then we decided that there's more to do. That's why we have a plan. Our plan, "The Road Ahead," says, and in the throne speech we noted that we understand that people with disabilities

have special needs that make it difficult for them to work. That's why we will increase the Ontario disability support program payments to help people with disabilities lead happier, more

productive and dignified lives. That is why --

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): The minister's time is up.

GOVERNMENT ASSETS

Mr Gerry Phillips (Scarborough-Agincourt): My question is to the Minister of Finance. The fiscal plans this year depend on you selling $2.2

billion worth of provincial assets. Just so the public realizes it, normally the number might be $300 million a year, but it's $2.2 billion. Without it, your numbers show you will run a very

significant deficit. You're making campaign promises that are going to be paid for by selling $2.2 billion of Ontario assets. It is like selling the family home to buy groceries. Ontarians deserve

to know which of their assets you are planning to sell to meet your campaign promises. Will you today tell the people of Ontario which of their assets you are selling to raise the $2.2 billion?

Hon Janet Ecker (Minister of Finance): The honourable member should well know that every year we put together a budget that includes revenue

forecasts and expenditure forecasts. We build flexibility into it because we know that through the year there are likely to be changes. Every year the goal is to be a balanced budget, and we have

done that five years in a row, plus paid down $5 billion in debt.

You want to look at the Liberal record? They increased the debt by 33%. That's not a very sound fiscal management record whatsoever.

Mr Phillips: Let me again be extremely specific and direct to you. It's $2.2 billion of major assets that you're selling. Ontarians have a

right. This isn't some private little Ernie Eves company; this is the province of Ontario. You are selling their assets; not Ernie Eves's assets -- their assets. And $2.2 billion is an incredible

amount of money; we will have a significant deficit without it. They have a right to know the answer to this, Minister. You can't hide behind this. This isn't some private little company on Bay

Street; this is the public's money. Tell us today, now, what is the $2.2 billion worth of assets you're selling? Tell the people of Ontario today. They are entitled to know the answer to that

question.

Hon Mrs Ecker: Every year -- again, we are very open about this -- we review the public assets that we manage on behalf of taxpayers. When

there are changes required, we make those changes. For example, last year we divested ourselves of the provincial savings office, at significant benefit to the consumers, the employees and the

communities where those banks reside. There was an example of where we looked at it, we reviewed it. It made better sense for taxpayers and consumers to divest ourselves of that bank. We will

continue to review all public assets, as required, if required. If changes are needed, we'll make them.

The honourable member likes to stand up there and talk about their fiscal record. Not only did they increase the debt by 33%, not only did they increase taxes

33 times, but the same advisers who told David Peterson to increase your debt, to increase your taxes, are those same advisers whom Dalton McGuinty is now relying upon for his new economic

agenda.

SMART GROWTH

Mr AL McDonald (Nipissing): My question is for the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing. Minister, you were in North Bay yesterday to

receive the final report of the Smart Growth committee for northeastern Ontario. Unfortunately --

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): We'll put the clock back and you can start over. I apologize. The member for Nipissing has the floor, please.

Sorry, member. You may start over.

Mr McDonald: Thank you, Mr Speaker.

My question is for the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing. Minister, you were in North Bay yesterday to receive the final report of the Smart Growth

committee for northeastern Ontario. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to be there with you due to my commitments here at Queen's Park, but I did hear from several of my constituents that you were well

received and that you have a good understanding of the issues and concerns we face in the north.

Minister, in the report local, municipal, business and community leaders shared with you their advice on how to make sure that our part of the province can

enjoy the many opportunities for growth while protecting --

Interjections.

The Speaker: The member for Windsor-St Clair, this is his last warning, and to the Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities. I'm not

going to have you arguing back and forth. If you want to talk about it, go outside. The member for Nipissing has the floor. He's asking an important question. If you want to continue the

conversation and argue, go outside.

The member for Nipissing has the floor. Sorry to interrupt again.

Mr McDonald: Thank you, Mr Speaker.

In the report, Minister, local, municipal, business and community leaders shared with you their advice on how to make sure our part of the province enjoys many

opportunities for growth while protecting the environment and the quality of life that we cherish. I'm hoping that the minister can share with this House some of the advice in the report and also

his thoughts on what the next steps should be.

Hon David Young (Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing): I thank the honourable member for his question and for his support over the last

number of months. He indeed is a great advocate for his community. His insight and understanding of some of the challenges that North Bay and the area around North Bay face are of great assistance

to me and to other members of the government.

Yesterday I had an opportunity to travel to North Bay, and I received the northeastern panel's report; that's the Smart Growth report. You will remember of

course that there are five different panels that exist. This government decided that five panels were necessary in order to reflect the diverseness and richness of this province. There are

different challenges in different parts of the province. Clearly in southern Ontario, an area that has had exponential growth over the last short while, we are going to have to do different things

to accommodate and encourage orderly growth.

For other regions of the province, like the area that my friend hails from, there are different challenges. We must find a way of ensuring that young people

will be able to stay in the communities they grew up in, that there will be opportunities there and that the services will be there when and where they need them.

Mr McDonald: I agree with you that we cannot apply the same solutions to northern Ontario as we do to the issues in southern Ontario. Our

challenges and priorities are very different, as you know, and that's why it's so important that Smart Growth panels rely on advice of local leaders.

Minister, I know that both you and Premier Eves have demonstrated your commitment to moving forward with Smart Growth principles, economic growth, better

transportation and a clean and healthy environment. This government has taken the important steps when it comes to supporting economic development and improved medical services in northern Ontario.

Minister, how will this report help build upon this government's vision for a stronger and more prosperous northern Ontario?

Hon Mr Young: Premier Eves has already begun what is a very important task. You will undoubtedly be aware that the Premier has announced both

capital funding and operating funds for the first northern Ontario medical school. That's something that is very important to the honourable member who posed the question and very important for the

people of northern Ontario.

When I was in North Bay yesterday I also heard a great deal of talk about the first and largest tax incentive zone announcement, and of course that is an

announcement that Premier Eves made in relation to all of northern Ontario. The results of that have already materialized. We have seen companies from across Canada and from the United States

inquiring of northern mayors and business leaders about the prospect of moving to northern Ontario.

Before I sit down, I do want to mention the fact that Premier Eves has announced $370 million to expand Highway 11 and Highway 69. The report we got yesterday

will assist us to provide even more resources and opportunities in northern Ontario.

EDUCATION FUNDING /

FINANCEMENT DE L'ÉDUCATION

M me Claudette Boyer (Ottawa-Vanier): My question is to the Minister of Education. Madame la ministre, votre gouvernement, dans son

discours du trône, a bien dit que tous les enfants de l'Ontario méritaient une éducation de qualité et des chances de succès égales, indépendamment de leur

situation économique, de leur lieu de résidence, de leur origine ethnique ou de leur croyance religieuse.

This government prides itself on having taken seriously many recommendations of Dr Rozanski's report. Nevertheless, your government has done nothing to follow

up recommendation 14 of the Rozanski report, urging your government to revise the funding formula so as to seriously look into the particular needs of the francophone schools in the province,

although the report did recognize that the funding for francophone schools was inadequate.

Madam Minister, when will you address this issue and give Franco-Ontarian schools the financial resources they need so that they may respect the requirements

of the different curricula and offer Franco-Ontarian students the full range of courses and services they are entitled to?

Hon Elizabeth Witmer (Deputy Premier, Minister of Education): I appreciate the question regarding the funding for our French schools in

Ontario. I would just begin by saying to the member opposite that I've had the opportunity to visit some of the French schools throughout Ontario and I've been extremely impressed by the quality of

education, the enthusiasm of the students and the hard work of the teachers, administrators and trustees.

In response to your question regarding funding: you may or may not know that immediately after Dr Rozanski issued his report, made his recommendations, we set

up a team of stakeholders from the French-language community in order to address the unique needs and the additional costs which we would agree are there. I would just let you know that they are in

the process now of determining how they can best follow through on Dr Rozanski's recommendation.

Mrs Boyer: Madam Minister, I understand what you are saying. The francophone community was waiting for something in the throne speech. We all

know you really think that the per pupil funding principle makes sense. We realize that the actual funding formula relies solely on the number of pupils and therefore obviously penalizes the

Franco-Ontarian schools, which are mostly smaller in number. When will you guarantee the Franco-Ontarian schools the minimum vital funding required so that they may respect the requirements of your

own ministry? When will your government respect its constitutional obligations toward the francophone community?

Hon Mrs Witmer: I'll just make a couple of points regarding the French-language funding. First of all, in 2001-02, we increased funding by

$29.7 million, or 4.3%, over the previous year. In 2002-03, we increased the funding 7.4%, despite the fact that enrolment decreased by about 1%. And this year, 2003-04, we are increasing the

funding by almost $64 million. That's an increase of 8.5% while the enrolment is decreasing about 2.5%.

I'd also mention to the member opposite that we have recently signed the Canada-Ontario special agreement for the implementation of French-language school

governance. That was signed on June 17, 1998, by Canadian Heritage and the Ontario Ministry of Education. It's a cost-sharing agreement for a period of five years, and each level of government

provided $90 million.

We're going to continue to make sure that we provide funding --

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): I'm afraid the minister's time is up.

TIRE DUMPS

Mr Steve Peters (Elgin-Middlesex-London): My question is to the Minister of Health. Minister, there is a very serious public health threat in

Norwich township: an illegal tire dump with 350,000 tires piled two storeys high. I toured this site and it's truly unbelievable -- a cesspool of mosquito larvae, a breeding ground for West Nile

virus. Local health unit officials have indicated that there is no way they can larvicide the tires because of the way they are piled up.

Officials from the Ministry of the Environment have indicated that the $1 million announced for tire cleanup is not guaranteed to go to cleanup of this site.

The local fire chief estimates it will cost the entire $1 million to clean up that site alone. That doesn't include the 15 to 20 other sites that exist around the province.

Minister, two days ago in this House you spoke of the commitment of the Premier to ensure that the resources are there to deal with the very real dangers to

the public health from West Nile virus. Will you commit today to ensure the necessary funding and immediate cleanup of this West Nile breeding ground?

Hon Tony Clement (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I'll refer this to the Minister of the Environment.

Hon Chris Stockwell (Minister of the Environment, Government House Leader): We have taken steps, as a matter of fact, to ensure that those

tire dumps around the province are sprayed with larvicide. We understand it's a situation that could be a breeding ground for West Nile, and the Ministry of the Environment has moved proactively

and quickly to ensure that those tire dumps will in fact be dealt with.

With respect to the tire dumps themselves, we have struck a WDO. One of the first orders I did was to deal with the tire situations and the tire dumps in

Ontario. I've had a number of conversations with my caucus members. A few of them, including the Minister of Agriculture, have met with me personally, and every single time they have come to me,

I've addressed the concerns. We have the WDO and we're moving forward in the very near future on the very serious tire dumps -- I would say the very unsafe and most dramatic problems in the

province.

I heard what you said. We are larviciding. We are spraying those tire dumps for West Nile virus and we're moving forward in the very near future to begin the

cleanup of some of the worst tire dumps in the province.

Mr Peters: I recognize that the Minister of the Environment answered the question, but this is an extremely important health issue.

Local businessman Ron Heleniak, who lives next door to this site, has three small children and he's very concerned about the health and safety of his family.

West Nile poses a very real threat to his family and to local citizens in that area, and it becomes more urgent daily.

This has been brought to your attention. The minister talks about addressing concerns, but this issue has been out there since 1996. CBC's Disclosure has

undertaken a program, the Toronto Star has written an article, and The New PL has covered it. Mr Heleniak has written to you, to Minister Stockwell, to former Minister Witmer and to Minister

Hardeman. Yet since 1996, seven years later, nothing has happened. Ron Heleniak described the situation best by saying, "This thing has been nothing but a ring-around-the-rosie farce, with one

jurisdiction passing the buck to another." We saw that today, where health passes it to environment, and environment will pass it back to health.

Minister, you're responsible for safeguarding the health of our citizens. You've said you would do what it takes to protect us from the West Nile virus. This

is a disaster waiting to happen. I'm asking again, will the Minister of Health take the leadership role that you promised and commit to having this site cleaned up now?

Hon Mr Stockwell: Mr Speaker, I gave him the answer, and I think it was a fair answer and a fair response. We understand there is an issue.

But to be fair to you and your side of the House, when we introduced legislation to strike the WDO, to in fact do just that -- clean up the tire dumps around the province -- what did you do? You

voted against the legislation. You voted against the very legislation that we were putting in place to go about cleaning up the tire dumps, to put the blue box recycling on the front burner for

glass returns, and so on and so forth.

So I ask you, why would you stand in your place and tell me about tire dumps when you voted against the very legislation we put forward that will deal with the

tire dumps? I'm not blaming you. We took leadership, we made a decision, and even with your silly response, which was opposing the legislation, we said, "We've got to provide leadership; we've got

to clean up these tire dumps," and we're doing just that in spite of you.

VISITORS

Hon Jim Wilson (Minister of Northern Development and Mines): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I know members will want to join with me in

welcoming Mr Blake Roberts, president of the Alberta PC youth association, and Andrew Highfield, who is a member of that association. They're in the west gallery. I know they are accompanied, or

Interjections.

PETITIONS

ALUMINUM SMELTER

Mr James J. Bradley (St Catharines): In the din of this House, I have a very important petition to present.

"Regarding cleanup of the abandoned smelter site in Georgina:

"Whereas the abandoned aluminum smelter located on Warden Avenue in the town of Georgina has been deemed to have heavy metals exceeding the Ministry of the

Environment guidelines; and

"Whereas the site is adjacent to a wetland that leads to the Maskinonge River feeding into Lake Simcoe;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to direct the Ministry of the Environment to conduct a full environmental assessment of this

site, followed by a cleanup of the full smelter site."

I affix my signature. I'm in complete agreement with this.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Petitions? Further petitions? There are no more petitions? I'm actually shocked. Do you have one there?

Mr Bradley: I have another set of petitions here.

The Speaker: OK, the member for St Catharines.

Mr Bradley: I have a set of petitions that are similar to the last ones but have a different stamp on them. They once again read the following

-- I wish my staff had brought down all the petitions I have up in my office, so I could read them.

"Regarding cleanup of the abandoned smelter site in Georgina:

"Whereas the abandoned aluminum smelter located on Warden Avenue in the town of Georgina has been deemed to have heavy metals exceeding the Ministry of the

Environment guidelines; and

"Whereas the site is adjacent to a wetland that leads to the Maskinonge River feeding into Lake Simcoe;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to direct the Ministry of the Environment to conduct a full environmental assessment of this

site, followed by a cleanup of the full smelter site."

That's another raft of these petitions.

SCHOOL BUS SAFETY

Mr Pat Hoy (Chatham-Kent Essex): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas some motorists are recklessly endangering the lives of children by not obeying the highway traffic law requiring them to stop for school buses with

their warning lights activated;

"Whereas the current law has no teeth to protect the children who ride the school buses of Ontario, and who are at risk and their safety is in jeopardy;

"Whereas the current school bus law is difficult to enforce, since not only is the licence plate number required, but positive identification of the driver

and vehicle as well, which makes it extremely difficult to obtain a conviction;

"Therefore,

be it resolved that we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the measures contained in private member's Bill 112,

An Act to amend the Highway Traffic Act to protect children while on school buses, presented by Pat

Hoy, MPP, Chatham-Kent-Essex, be immediately enacted....

"Bill 112 imposed liability on the owner of a vehicle that fails to stop for a school bus that has its overhead red signal lights flashing and....

"We ask for the support of all members of the Legislature."

The signatures on this petition are from residents of Windsor, and I too have signed it.

Hon Chris Stockwell (Minister of the Environment, Government House Leader): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I would just like to be certain

that Mr Bradley's office got the message that they should bring down all the petitions in his office now so he may deal with them now.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Now we've got an influx.

GARDE D'ENFANTS

les garderies à 10 $ par jour.

« Attendu que 70% des femmes de l'Ontario ayant des enfants de moins de 12 ans sont sur le marché du travail;

« Attendu que, elles et leurs familles ont absolument besoin de services de garde de qualité, sûrs et abordables;

« Attendu que l'étude sur la petite enfance réalisée pour le gouvernement conservateur par le D r Fraser Mustard et

l'honorable Margaret McCain a conclu que les services de garde de qualité favorisent un développement harmonieux des enfants; et

« Attendu que le gouvernement a réduit le financement pour les garderies réglementées plutôt que d'appuyer les familles

ontariennes en investissant dans l'apprentissage et les soins offerts aux jeunes enfants;

« Pour ces motifs nous, soussignés, demandons que le gouvernement de l'Ontario adopte le plan du NPD pour des espaces de garderie à

10 $ par jour, et qu'il commence par réduire la totalité des frais de garde pour les enfants de deux ans à cinq ans actuellement inscrits dans des garderies

réglementées; que le gouvernement alloue des capitaux permanents pour agrandir les garderies existantes et pour en construire de nouvelles; que le gouvernement finance l'équité

salariale pour le personnel, et qu'il crée de nouveaux espaces de garderies à 10 $ par jour dans cette province. »

J'appuie cette pétition.

AUDIOLOGY SERVICES

Mr John Gerretsen (Kingston and the Islands): I have a petition addressed to the Legislature of Ontario.

"Whereas services delisted by the Harris government now exceed $100 million in total;

"Whereas Ontarians depend on audiologists for the provision of qualified hearing assessments and hearing aid prescriptions;

"Whereas the new Harris government policy will virtually eliminate access to publicly funded audiology assessments across vast regions of Ontario;

"Whereas this new Harris government policy is virtually impossible to implement in underserviced areas across Ontario;

"Whereas this policy will lengthen waiting lists for patients and therefore have a detrimental effect on the health of these Ontarians;

"Therefore,

be it resolved that we, the undersigned, petition the Ontario Legislature to demand the Harris government move immediately to permanently fund

audiologists directly for the provision of audiology services."

It's signed by about 12 individuals. I agree with the petition and sign it accordingly.

SOCIAL ASSISTANCE

Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): It's Shirley Crispin day again. Shirley Crispin went out again knocking on doors and got about 2,000

signatures on the following petition. It says, "We deserve better: it's time for a raise." I've got to wear my glasses because I'm getting to the point where I can't read without them.

"To the Ontario Provincial Legislature:

"Because social assistance rates were slashed by 21.6% in 1995, and with the increases to the cost of living that cut is worth about 34.4% today; and

"Because current social assistance rates do not allow recipients to meet their cost of living; and

"Because the people of Ontario deserve an adequate standard of living and are guaranteed such by the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural

Rights; and

"Because the jury at the inquest into the death of Kimberly Rogers recommended that social assistance rates be reviewed so that they reflect actual costs of

living;

"We demand that the Ontario government immediately increase the shelter portion of Ontario Works and Ontario disability support program benefits to the average

Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp rent levels and index social assistance to the cost of living."

I have signed this petition.

MORTGAGE INTEREST DEDUCTIBILITY

Mr Dominic Agostino (Hamilton East): A petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas in a recently released Tory platform entitled The Road Ahead, Ernie Eves promised to implement mortgage interest deductibility if his government is

re-elected; and

"Whereas countless economists and tax specialists have pronounced mortgage interest deductibility to be unaffordable and bad public policy; and

"Whereas in a Toronto Star

article published on April 16, 2003, Ernie Eves was quoted as saying, while in his role as finance minister to the former Premier,

Mike Harris, referring to this scheme, `When I presented the cost to the Premier of the day, he asked me what drugs I was on. "You can't go there," he said';

"Whereas the people of Ontario recognize that the Tories' proposal to implement mortgage interest deductibility is unaffordable, irresponsible and reckless

public policy;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to determine, when crafting the Progressive Conservative platform, the answer to Premier

Mike Harris's question, that time, when he was asked in his role as finance minister."

I agree with that and I sign my name to the petition.

NATIONAL CHILD BENEFIT SUPPLEMENT

Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): I have yet another petition. This one says, "Stop the Clawback! Give the Children Back their Money.

"Whereas one in five children in Ontario lives in poverty;

"Whereas, as part of the national child tax benefit program the federal government gives a supplement to low-income families across the country to begin to

address child poverty;

"Whereas that money, up to approximately $100 per month per child, is meant to give our poorest and most vulnerable children a better chance in life;

"Whereas in Ontario, the Conservative government deducts the child benefit supplement dollar for dollar from those living on social assistance;

"Whereas this is leaving our province's neediest children without the extra money they desperately need to begin to climb out of poverty;

"Whereas all children are entitled to a fair chance at life;

"Therefore

be it resolved that we, the undersigned, call on the provincial government of Ontario stop the clawback of the national child tax benefit supplement

and ensure this federal money reaches all low-income families in Ontario."

I've signed that petition.

AUDIOLOGY SERVICES

Mr Alvin Curling (Scarborough-Rouge River): I have some petitions here coming in in numbers.

"Whereas services delisted by the Harris-Eves government now exceed $100 million in total; and

"Whereas Ontarians depend on audiologists for the provision of qualified hearing assessments and hearing aid prescriptions; and

"Whereas the new Harris-Eves government policy will virtually eliminate access to publicly funded audiology assessments across vast regions of Ontario; and

"Whereas this new Harris-Eves government policy is virtually impossible to implement in underserviced areas across Ontario; and

"Whereas this policy will lengthen waiting lists for patients and therefore have a detrimental effect on the health of these Ontarians;

"Therefore,

be it resolved that we, the undersigned, petition the Ontario Legislature to demand that the Harris-Eves government move immediately to permanently

fund audiologists directly for the provision of audiology services."

I am going to affix my signature in total agreement with this petition.

GARDE D'ENFANTS

M. Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): I have many petitions and I'm trying to present most of them today, this one from les gens de Timmins

qui écrivent:

« Appuyons des garderies à $10 par jour: pétition à l'Assemblée législative de l'Ontario:

« Attendu que 70% des femmes de l'Ontario ayant des enfants de moins de 12 ans sont sur le marché du travail;

« Attendu que, elles et leurs familles ont absolument besoin de services de garde de qualité, sûrs et abordables;

« Attendu que l'étude sur la petite enfance réalisée pour le gouvernement conservateur par le D r Fraser Mustard et

l'honorable Margaret McCain a conclu que les services de garde de qualité favorisent un développement harmonieux des enfants; et

« Attendu que le gouvernement a réduit le financement pour les garderies réglementées plutôt que d'appuyer les familles

ontariennes en investissant dans l'apprentissage et les soins offerts aux jeunes enfants;

« Pour ces motifs nous, soussignés, demandons que le gouvernement de l'Ontario adopte le plan du NPD pour des espaces de garderie à

10 $ par jour, et qu'il commence par réduire la totalité des frais de garde pour les enfants de deux ans à cinq ans actuellement inscrits dans des garderies

réglementées; que le gouvernement alloue des capitaux permanents pour agrandir les garderies existantes et pour en construire de nouvelles; que le gouvernement finance l'équité

salariale pour le personnel, et qu'il crée de nouveaux espaces de garderies à 10 $ par jour dans cette province. »

J'ai soussigné cette pétition.

AUDIOLOGY SERVICES

Mr Steve Peters (Elgin-Middlesex-London): A petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Listen: Our Hearing is Important!

"Whereas services delisted by the Ontario provincial government now exceed $100 million in total;

"Whereas Ontarians depend on audiologists for the provision of qualified hearing assessments and hearing aid prescriptions;

"Whereas the new provincial government policy will virtually eliminate access to publicly funded audiology assessments across vast regions of Ontario;

"Whereas this provincial government policy is virtually impossible to implement in underserviced areas across Ontario; and

"Whereas this policy will lengthen waiting lists for patients and therefore have a detrimental effect on the health of these Ontarians;

"Therefore,

be it resolved that we, the undersigned 550 residents from across Ontario, petition the Ontario Legislature to demand that the Ernie Eves

government move immediately to permanently fund audiologists directly for the provision of audiology services."

I'm in full agreement and have affixed my signature hereto.

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

Mr James J. Bradley (St Catharines): I have yet another petition, thanks to the government House leader, that has been brought in. It is to

the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas long-term-care facilities in this province are understaffed, underfunded and ignored by the current government;

"Whereas many residents of St Catharines and other communities in Ontario are unable to find a family doctor as a result of the growing doctor shortage we have

experienced during the tenure of the Harris-Eves governments;

"Whereas cancer patients in Ontario requiring radiation treatment face unacceptable delays and are often forced to travel to other jurisdictions to receive

medical attention;

"Whereas many prescription drugs which would help patients with a variety of medical conditions such as macular degeneration, multiple sclerosis, arthritis,

diabetes and heart failure are inadequately covered by OHIP;

"Whereas long waiting lists for diagnostic tests such as MRIs, CT scans and ultrasounds are jeopardizing the health of many individuals already facing serious

illness;

"Whereas the Harris-Eves government has now spent over $401 million" -- I might add "and rising," but that's not in the petition -- "on blatantly partisan

government advertising in the form of glossy brochures and television and radio ads;

"We, the undersigned, call upon the Conservative government of Ernie Eves to immediately end their abuse of public office and terminate any further expenditure

on political advertising and to invest this money in health and long-term care in the province of Ontario."

I affix my signature as I'm in vehement and complete agreement with this petition.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

BACK TO SCHOOL

(TORONTO CATHOLIC ELEMENTARY)

AND EDUCATION AND PROVINCIAL SCHOOLS NEGOTIATIONS

AMENDMENT ACT, 2003 /

LOI DE 2003 PRÉVOYANT LE RETOUR

À L'ÉCOLE (SECTEUR ÉLÉMENTAIRE DU

CONSEIL CATHOLIQUE DE TORONTO)

ET MODIFIANT LA

LOI SUR L'ÉDUCATION ET LA

LOI SUR

LA NÉGOCIATION COLLECTIVE DANS

LES ÉCOLES PROVINCIALES

Catholic Teachers' Association and the Toronto Catholic District School Board and to amend the Education Act and the Provincial Schools Negotiations Act / Projet de loi 28, Loi visant à

régler le conflit de travail opposant l'Association des enseignantes et des enseignants catholiques anglo-ontariens et le conseil scolaire de district appelé Toronto Catholic District

School Board et modifiant la

Loi sur l'éducation et la

Loi sur la négociation collective dans les écoles provinciales.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): The member for Trinity-Spadina had the floor.

Mr Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): I want to welcome the citizens of Ontario who are watching this political debate we're having. I'm

happy to be the New Democratic Party critic for educational matters -- elementary, secondary and post-secondary -- and happy to debate as long as I can this odious Bill 28 entitled

An Act to

Negotiations Act.

This bill is about forcing teachers back to school. The Minister of Labour, who spoke at length to this bill yesterday, didn't say as much, and the title

pretends to assuage the back-to-work legislation. When they say, "An Act to resolve a labour dispute," it's designed to kick the teachers back into the schoolrooms, where I'm assuming John Baird

would say they belong.

Hon John R. Baird (Minister of Energy, Minister responsible for francophone affairs): That's where they want to be.

Mr Marchese: That's where the teachers would want to be. So says the Minister of Energy.

I'm going to speak to why this bill is odious, and I will speak later on to my disagreement with Liberal Bill 61, which they speak of as the clear bill, but it

too is back-to-work legislation for teachers. I will have an opportunity to speak to both of those bills as time goes on.

But, Speaker, I want to tell you and those citizens watching that this government has beaten up on teachers since 1995. This is not about resolving disputes

between teachers and the boards of education because they're such nice people on the other side; this is about beating up on teachers because it's politically convenient to do so. As they beat up

on welfare recipients for seven, eight years, they are doing the same thing with teachers day in and day out. I will show you how they've done that for the last seven years and how they would hope

to continue doing that for the next four years -- before this election gets called.

Yesterday, the Minister of Labour stood up on his feet and said, with some humour and irony, that it's "time for a new maturity" to solve problems between

teachers and boards -- a new maturity. I'm assuming by the "new maturity" he's referring to odious Bill 28, which would force teachers back into the classroom. That, as I read it, is how he

classifies a new, mature relationship between teachers and boards of education. He would kick them back into the classroom without allowing for any collective bargaining to take place, and feels

happy about it -- a tradition we've had for a long time in this country.

Last week, the Minister of Labour, the Premier and the Minister of Education, all three of them, stood up to introduce Bill 28, as if it took more than one

minister to kick teachers back. They needed the Premier as well to help them out. It's an easy bill. Any one of those ministers could have done it, but they colluded together to give each other

strength, presumably to get the teachers back into the classroom. Why would you need the massive strength of three people to beat up on teachers when one would do? They want to say to the public

that there is a great deal of collaboration in the cabinet and in the caucus, when they in that caucus and cabinet are quite happy to rule that teachers should be back in their classrooms. Happily,

they do it.

The Minister of Labour talks about this bill protecting students from harmful work-to-rule, as if we've never had work-to-rule before. Why, these Catholic

teachers, some of whom are here today, were on work-to-rule for a mere eight days while they were doing their duties as teachers in the classrooms. This government stands up and says they want to

protect students. How so? If teachers are in their classrooms teaching their students, how is it harming those students? They are doing their duty to teach and, through the collective bargaining

process, are working to rule and not withdrawing their teaching services.

The Minister of Labour says we need a new framework for labour peace, and by that I'm assuming he's referring to his interest, and the interest of this

Premier, in abolishing teacher strikes, which I will speak to a little later. Is that the kind of framework that he wants to establish labour peace? How do you achieve labour peace with teachers

when you're about to tell them you are going to avoid and prevent lockouts from now on, and will prevent and eliminate the right to strike from now on, should you get re-elected? How does that

establish labour peace? I don't see it, but Ernie Eves, the Premier, seems to see it as a good solution. The Minister of Labour talks about this as being a