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March 9, 2017

41st Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2017-Mar-09 (PDF)

L053 - Thu 9 Mar 2017 / Jeu 9 mar 2017

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Thursday 9 March 2017 Jeudi 9 mars 2017

Orders of the Day

Medical Assistance in Dying Statute Law Amendment Act, 2017 / Loi de 2017 modifiant des lois en ce qui concerne l’aide médicale à mourir

Supporting Children, Youth and Families Act, 2017 / Loi de 2017 sur le soutien à l’enfance, à la jeunesse et à la famille

Introduction of Visitors

Oral Questions

Energy policies

School closures

Hydro rates

School closures

Hydro rates

Hydro rates

Hydro rates

Digital government

Hydro rates

Energy policies

Skills training

Long-term care

Air-rail link

Services for the developmentally disabled

Mining industry

Notice of dissatisfaction

Legislative pages

Deferred Votes

Medical Assistance in Dying Statute Law Amendment Act, 2017 / Loi de 2017 modifiant des lois en ce qui concerne l’aide médicale à mourir

Supporting Children, Youth and Families Act, 2017 / Loi de 2017 sur le soutien à l’enfance, à la jeunesse et à la famille

Members’ Statements

Daughters of the Vote

Hydro rates

Craft distilleries and breweries

Realtors

Infrastructure program funding

Craft distilleries

Salubrité alimentaire

Opioid abuse

School closures

Introduction of Bills

Rea and Walter Act (Truss and Lightweight Construction Identification), 2017 / Loi Rea et Walter de 2017 sur l’identification des composants structuraux à ossature légère

Motions

Private members’ public business

Statements by the Ministry and Responses

International Women’s Week

Petitions

Hydro rates

Environmental protection

Primary health care

Diabetes glucose monitoring

Hydro rates

Climate change

School closures

Vaccin contre le zona

Speed limits

Ostomy supplies

Child care

Inclusiveness

Estimates

Private Members’ Public Business

Safe Texting Zones Act, 2017 / Loi de 2017 sur l’aménagement de haltes texto sécuritaires

Free My Rye Act (Liquor Statute Law Amendment), 2017 / Loi de 2017 sur la vente libre de whisky (modifiant des lois en ce qui concerne les boissons alcooliques)

Enhancing Shareholder Rights Act, 2017 / Loi de 2017 visant à accroître les droits des actionnaires

Safe Texting Zones Act, 2017 / Loi de 2017 sur l’aménagement de haltes texto sécuritaires

Free My Rye Act (Liquor Statute Law Amendment), 2017 / Loi de 2017 sur la vente libre de whisky (modifiant des lois en ce qui concerne les boissons alcooliques)

Enhancing Shareholder Rights Act, 2017 / Loi de 2017 visant à accroître les droits des actionnaires

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Good morning. Please join me in prayer.

Prayers.

Orders of the Day

Medical Assistance in Dying Statute Law Amendment Act, 2017 / Loi de 2017 modifiant des lois en ce qui concerne l’aide médicale à mourir

Resuming the debate adjourned on March 7, 2017, on the motion for second reading of the following bill:

Bill 84,

An Act to amend various Acts with respect to medical assistance in dying / Projet de loi 84, Loi modifiant diverses lois en ce qui concerne l’aide médicale à mourir.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Further debate?

Ms. Lisa M. Thompson: I’m pleased to join the debate today because this is a very important issue that I am hearing time and again from constituents at home in the riding of Huron–Bruce, and a lot of my comments are going to reflect on their feelings.

Before I begin, I very much want to tip my hat to the member from Elgin–Middlesex–London. Our critic for health has done an amazing job doing authentic consultations, reaching out to people from far and wide across this province to understand the scope of what Bill 84 implies and how they feel about it.

To kick off, I need to impress upon the government today that it’s not complete. I implore this government to support an amendment that the member from Elgin–Middlesex–London will be bringing forward with regard to doctors’ conscience rights because it’s my understanding that there’s no other jurisdiction around this world that takes away the rights of the doctors to do what they feel in their conscience is the right thing.

So, with that, I’m going to say thank you to people from my riding: Mark and Joy Moores; Eileen Sleightholm; Penny Wiest; Michael Smith; Gary Schlack; Maureen Wilkins; Suzanne Anderson; Peter van Diepen; Mary Flannery; Ron, Daniel, Adam and Ingrid DeVisser; James Chin Yut; Ronald Garinther; Anne Zondervan; Stephanie Schilthuis; David McCutcheon; Brenda Peck; Jim O’Toole; Denise Morris; Heather Zettler; Marion Leifso; Crystal Powers; Doug and Julie Debus; Matilda Rau; Stephen Bujaki; Mary Rigden; Yvonne Bulger; Danise Scapinello; Danielle Roelands; Stephen La Rocque; Barbara Durrer; MaryJo Nelson; Willard and Vanessa Ropp; Suzanne Kilpatrick; Richard Arsenault; Joan Agnew; Mary-Catherine McKeon; Henry Morrissey; Thomas Bailey; Gerald and Anne Ryan; Darlene Schiestel; and Virginia Kieffer.

These are people who so eloquently put their thoughts to paper to demonstrate that Bill 84, as it’s written today, is not complete. They totally support the amendment that the PC Party is bringing forward with regard to doctors’ conscience rights. We really hope that the government supports it when it goes into committee.

I want to read a particular

section of the charter—specifically an excerpt from a decision that was handed down. In case anyone is interested in reading the complete text of the decision that I’m about to reference, its citation is 2015 SCC 5:

“An absolute prohibition on physician-assisted dying is rationally connected to the goal of protecting the vulnerable from taking their life in times of weakness, because prohibiting an activity that poses certain risks is a rational method of curtailing the risks.”

The ruling went on to say that “the evidence does not support the contention that a blanket prohibition is necessary in order to substantially meet the government’s objective.... a permissive regime with properly designed”—I repeat, “properly designed”—“and administered safeguards was capable of protecting vulnerable people from abuse and error” and “that vulnerability can be assessed on an individual basis, using the procedures that physicians apply in their assessment of informed consent and decisional capacity in the context of medical decision-making more generally.”

It is apparent to me, Speaker, given the balanced approach used by the judge in considering the intent of the prohibition as it stood and the need to respect the wishes of a patient who is living with a terminal or painful illness and has the capacity to understand the implications of what they’re asking their medical professional as well as make informed decisions, that there was much careful consideration at a judicial level in how to address this matter, especially when one considers that this was an issue that was extended over two years and saw significant testimony from scientists, medical practitioners and others who are familiar with end-of-life decision-making in Canada and abroad.

In fact, I received a note from a resident of Huron–Bruce just this past weekend expressing these concerns. I’d like to share some of what was written. This is over and above the responses and the thoughts that were shared that I just listed from people previously, a couple of minutes ago. In particular, this one constituent in Huron–Bruce said:

“Bill 84 ... has put our doctors and nurses in a very bad situation, as it is forcing health care workers or institutions to act against their conscience.

“We are insisting that our government provide conscience protection for our medical professionals.”

In December, Mary-Catherine wrote to me that “Ontario health care workers whose conscience will not allow them to perform euthanasia ... must not be compelled to pass this death on to someone else, as this also goes against their moral ethics.”

Speaker, again I implore this government of the day to please ensure that Ontario provides the same protection for health care workers as other Canadian provinces and jurisdictions around the world that have legalized euthanasia or assisted suicide.

My colleague from Nepean–Carleton specifically pointed out that Maureen Taylor, who was co-chair of the Provincial-Territorial Expert Advisory Group on Physician-Assisted Dying, appeared before the committee on Bill 41. Maureen Taylor advocated that there needs to be support for the rights of health care practitioners to not participate in assisted death if it goes against their conscience.

The College of Nurses of Ontario, HealthCARE, the Ontario Medical Association, the Canadian Medical Association and the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario all support provisions for nurses and doctors to refuse medical assistance in dying, or MAID, on the basis of personal or ethical objections. In the case of the latter two, they have also highlighted the matter of effective referrals, or requiring a physician to refer a patient to another medical practitioner capable of and willing to offer MAID.

I know that my colleague has been conversing diligently with them—my colleague, that is, from Elgin–Middlesex–London. I know that the results of those conversations will be manifested during committee because this government will do the right thing and protect the conscience rights of our doctors. But as the House can see, there’s so much more that needs to be done with regard to getting this bill right. It is unfortunate, Speaker, because this isn’t the first time this government has rushed legislation or erred on the health care file.

The continued cuts to health care are having an impact on Ontarians. Just this past week, I had the opportunity to attend the most impactful conference I’ve attended in recent years, and that is the Daughters of the Vote. It was amazing, the young ladies who stood up and spoke about the impacts that cuts to health care are having on their communities, specifically with regard to mental health.

I know, especially in my own home riding of Huron–Bruce—my offices in Kincardine and Blyth are routinely receiving calls from residents who are having to wait longer and longer to see their own doctor, or they can’t even get one at all, and they end up having to go to the ER and visit a doctor who is a locum. He’s not from the community. He’s just parachuting in and being pulled back out after the weekend is over. And these people are getting different opinions every time they turn around.

I will say that while I appreciated the Minister of Health’s comments at ROMA this past month, we still have work to do. So I ask him to reach out across the floor, delve down on the amendment that the PC Party is bringing forward through our critic for health and long-term care, and let’s get Bill 84 right. Let’s protect conscience rights of doctors. Residents throughout Huron–Bruce and across Ontario are asking us to do the right thing.

Speaker, for goodness’ sake, I really hope we can get this done when this Bill 84 gets to committee. In closing, I hope the government has listened intently today and supports our efforts, because for goodness’ sake, we have to start getting it right for Ontarians.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Questions and comments?

Ms. Sarah Campbell: I have recently had the opportunity to speak with a nurse practitioner in my riding who has assisted two people under this new legislation. I wanted to find out what her perspective was. She is a palliative care nurse who represents an area which is geographically massive, from Kenora in the west all the way to Ignace in the east and north up to Sioux Lookout. She did say that there is a real lack of health care providers right now who are willing to provide this service.

She said that there seems to be a lot of fear in the health care community about having protection for health care providers. There’s a concern, with something so new, that it may come back to hurt them in some way.

She also talked about the fact that—the problems that this can pose, with not having enough professionals to provide this service across the province. She specifically raised the question: What happens if there’s somebody in, say, Cat Lake First Nation, a remote First Nation, who would like to benefit from this? Can we even provide it in the community or do we need to fly those people down? What does that mean for those families? There are some challenges with that, because one of the points that she underscored is that we need to be able to provide this service professionally, universally and consistently. Until we can do that, we have some problems.

She did mention a positive beneficial change. She did say that, with both of the clients that she has assisted, both of them expressed concerns about their benefits being withheld. So she did mention that’s a positive change.

There are some other changes that we need to make. One of the biggest things that she also underscored was the need for more education for the medical community to alleviate concerns and to bring more people on board if they’re comfortable with that.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Questions and comments?

Mr. John Fraser: I just—to reflect on the member’s debate, this bill is very specifically about what the member from Kenora–Rainy River was saying. Physicians are looking for protection. They’re concerned. The measures in this bill are about ensuring their civil liability protection, ensuring that patients are protected for insurance and WSIB, Coroners Act, records. That’s what this bill is about. There’s no doubt that we have to have a discussion and a resolution to make space for all those, for all of us to be able to practise in a way that agrees with our conscience.

We’re going to have to find that balance, but we’ve got to keep our eye on the ball on this bill. This bill is about protecting patients and allowing physicians to be able to opt in, if they wish, with the knowledge that they have some legislative protection.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Questions and comments.

Mrs. Gila Martow: I think that there’s a lot of concern out in our communities—not just from the member from Huron–Bruce about her community, but in all communities. Doctors have spoken about it before. Doctors who go in to study medicine are very compassionate people, very empathetic people. That’s what makes great doctors.

There’s a Dr. Halperin who wrote a letter to the editor this morning. I can’t remember if it was in the Toronto Star or the National Post. He said that his patients know, and he wants his patients to be absolutely certain, that he is doing everything he can to make them healthy and make them live as long as possible. That’s basically what he is saying. He doesn’t want his patients having in the back of their mind that he’s ever going to give up on them.

I think those were his exact words: “I will never give up on my patients.” He does not want a piece of legislation that puts him in a very uncomfortable situation where his patients might suspect that he is giving up on them because he’s encouraging them to either have a referral or contemplate assisted dying.

I think we do have to be aware of the consequences and the repercussions of our actions. Sometimes with legislation I think it happens much too often that laws are put in place by the government even for the right reasons, but there are unintended consequences. I’m very concerned that we will lose our most empathetic doctors who want to work in our communities. It’s not just a career or a job; it’s really a passion for assisting people in their communities.

I’m worried that those doctors will choose to practise in other jurisdictions because we aren’t focusing on ensuring that their conscience rights are protected. That’s why we’re here today debating. We’re going to be taking this bill into committee. We’re going to be hearing from a lot of people in a lot of communities. I hope the government will be listening intently and get this right.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Questions and comments.

Mr. Wayne Gates: I want to talk about the bill. I listened to my colleague on the other side talk about what the bill is about and protecting patients and talking about WSIB. The issue, I think, that everybody is talking about on this bill is consultation and who we’re talking to. Are we talking to our doctors? Are we talking to our hospitals? Are we talking to everybody? I’m not so sure, although I’ve heard from the other side and they say they have. But when I hear the criticism coming from other parties, obviously that’s a big concern.

I said this the other day, and I think it’s important to say—because some of the doctors feel that their job is to try to do all they can to keep us alive. I mentioned this the last time I spoke on this bill, because we’ve had a number of deaths in our family over the last year, and I’ve watched how everybody has responded. The one that really stuck in my mind—because my dad has been gone for a long, long time, and my mom has been gone for a long, long time. My wife’s father passed away in June. Now, we all loved him to death. But do you know the hardest thing that my wife is having with this?

Every day she says, “I wish I could have had my dad one more day. I wish I could have told my dad that I loved him one more day.” That’s why I think we have to have that broader discussion on how we’re going to do this, because it has been seven or eight months and it’s still right here in her heart. I think we want to keep our family members as long as we can. As the doctors are saying, “My job is to make sure I get you that extra day, or I get you that extra week, or I get you that extra two weeks. That’s my job as a doctor.”

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): I return to the member from Huron–Bruce to wrap up.

Ms. Lisa M. Thompson: I appreciate the comments that I heard from my colleagues this morning.

The member from Kenora–Rainy River really hit the nail on the head when she said that there is a fear throughout the health care community of where this legislation could go.

The member from Thornhill is absolutely right: We have to be so mindful of the repercussions that could come out of legislation. When we do not consult, when we think we’re all-knowing, when we think we know better, that’s when negative repercussions can happen. This is what the health care community is afraid of with this particular government of the day.

The member from Ottawa South mentioned that we have to have a balanced discussion. For goodness’ sake, we should have had the balanced discussion with the proper stakeholders ahead of Bill 84. Let’s do right by the health care community and let’s have that thoughtful discussion when it’s in committee, specifically around the amendment that my colleague from Elgin–Middlesex–London, the critic for health and long-term care, is going to bring forward.

The member from Niagara Falls is absolutely right: This is about our loved ones. This is about having the broader discussion to make sure that we have confidence in our health care system, that for those choosing a certain path, the door is open to them. But in doing so, let’s make sure that it doesn’t put other people in a precarious situation where they feel that they have lost their rights in terms of how they choose to practise medicine in Ontario.

Again, this is very important to consider: the conscience rights of doctors. Let’s support our amendment when this bill goes to committee and get Bill 84 right.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Further debate?

Ms. Jennifer K. French: I am glad to finally have the opportunity to share my thoughts and some thoughts of those around me, frankly, in this debate. I’ve had the opportunity to speak briefly on Bill 84, the Medical Assistance in Dying Statute Law Amendment Act, in response to the thoughtful comments from many of our colleagues around this Legislature.

I’d like to say, as well, that while I’m speaking today, I know that my almost 96-year-old grandma is watching, because this has been a debate that she has been following. Now that she knows that this channel exists, and she’s tuned in and she knows that she can see me every day, she’s been watching. As she put it, “It isn’t a conversation we want to have, but it’s something we need to talk about.” And I thought, yes, that’s about right, because it is an emotional conversation. It is a very personal conversation.

We walk fine lines and try to be respectful of each other’s backgrounds and pathways and ideas and beliefs, but ultimately, we share this society together and have to have this conversation.

I’m glad to be doing it today, though, in some respects, I haven’t been looking forward to it, because as I’ve been having conversations in my community, even just in my circle of friends and family—to say that it’s a touchy subject doesn’t do it justice, of course. We’re talking about people’s choices to end their lives. That’s pretty major. To talk to a friend of mine and have the conversation when you then start talking about children—well, that’s a whole other conversation that we were not able to have. But it’s part of the broader discussion, isn’t it?

Here we find ourselves with a bill that—as the member opposite said, there are protections in here and there are pieces that have to happen in terms of the technical bits; that if we make a change to our health care landscape, there are going to be other pieces that we have to make changes to, whether WSIB insurance pieces or different protections. So we’re having that conversation. We’re figuring this out. This is uncharted territory, I would say. But I think that it has to be done well; it has to be done right. We know, as anything that matters that we do, it has to be done in consultation with friends and family and folks across the province.

As we’ve heard, there are groups who have very significant concerns about what this will look like for them as health care professionals, for them as members of the community, for them as human beings; and also the family members who support individuals and love individuals who are faced with this decision, who are making this decision one way or another, supporting them through that and supporting each other after someone has died through medical assistance in dying.

So I want to talk more holistically because that’s how I see our health care system and that’s where I see its strength—when we consider all of the pieces and how they have to fit from birth to death, and after, for the families and communities after someone has passed.

We need to ensure excellent access to health care services all the way along. I’m not going to launch into song about hospitals and capacity and being overstretched. I’ll just let that hang there because we know that’s a battle that we have. But certainly when we’re talking about adding in services that are new, we do have to have that conversation about: How will we support those practitioners and professionals? What will the training look like? What will the mental health supports look like?

Are there going to be counselling pieces—that we need to have those professionals as part of the service process for families? We need to be looking at that. We need to talk about palliative care, home care, hospice care, end-of-life care, all of that, the whole picture. This is a piece of that. All of those pieces fit neatly together. Sometimes they aren’t fitting together, and as we discover those loopholes and broken bits, of course, it’s incumbent on us to identify them and address them. As we are bringing in one more part to this, we have to be very conscious of that.

I have lots of thoughts on this. I’m going to start with the consultations and the conversations piece. We have stood, especially on this side, and criticized quite fairly—well, I would say that; we can debate whether it’s fair or not—that the consultation process was maybe not what it could have been and should have been. I have heard the defence from the other side, and I recognize there were consultations, and I’m sure those consultations were meaningful and hopefully productive. But what we’re hearing from our communities is, they still need to have those conversations. Those conversations are not finished.

They need to go forward because it’s now, as people are realizing that medical assistance in dying that we saw in discussions in Ottawa—that we thought, “Oh, that’s a big conversation, I guess we’ll have to have it down the road.” There were many involved in those conversations, but here we find it on the provincial level—actually putting things in place to facilitate this service and access to service. All of a sudden, it’s in our communities, it’s in our families, and our broader community members are wanting to engage now. So this is a time when we need to continue to have those conversations.

People want to know what this will look like. People want to know how this will be accessible to them. Health care professionals—whether they be pharmacists, whether they be mental health service providers, whether they be health care professionals who work in long-term care, whether they be our doctor community—want to know, “What will this look like? How can I stay away from this? How can I be involved in this?” I think now is the time to sit down and really have those conversations.

The member from Huron–Bruce spoke this morning about amendments that they’re bringing forward and spoke about what they’re hearing in their communities. We’re hearing them as well. We’re getting letters in our offices; I know the government is, as well. So we do have to get this right.

I would also say that whatever we go forward with, we must make sure that we continue to evaluate and re-evaluate, because this is going to have ripple effects through our communities that are unintended. We are going to see impacts on families and individuals that we can maybe anticipate, but how are we going to support them? Our northern and rural community members, whether it’s talking about access to a service or access to the care after—we have to look at this across the province and be very specific.

Holy jumpin’, the time has totally disappeared—I don’t mean to make light of it.

I do want to say we respect the voices that we are hearing. We’re getting letters. I’ll read just a bit of one here: “We respectfully suggest that, from an ethical and democratic rights standpoint, it is incumbent upon Ontario to protect its citizens.... Every other jurisdiction in the world, whether provincial, state or federal, that has a legalized MAID process has also instituted protection of the conscientious rights of its health care providers. Surely Ontario should do the same.”

This is a conversation we keep having. How exactly do we navigate this? But these are the voices coming to us. Our doctors are speaking loudly, doctors on both sides of the conversation, and we look to them for their guidance and their care always. We do in this as well.

Back to my grandma: My grandma is almost 96. She’s following this conversation. I don’t know what she would one day choose. I don’t know what I would one day choose. I went through the palliative process with my mother, and this was not a conversation to be had, but we had wonderful palliative care. We had a wonderful journey, all things considered. It was very emotional, but from start to finish, through the palliative process with the caregivers that were coming in—well, I guess we were caregivers, but the caring professionals coming in walked us through it. We understood what was coming next. We understood what our options were. It was very personal while very emotional.

I think we have to look at this whole conversation through that lens. It is very personal. It is very emotional. It matters so much, so let’s do this right.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Questions and comments?

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Questions and comments?

Mr. Rick Nicholls: This is a highly sensitive topic, and I appreciate the sincerity that has been demonstrated here in the Legislature.

First of all, I think that Ontario’s regulations must ensure a balance between individual rights—I get that—including the recognition, though, of the conscience rights of health care professionals: those who don’t want to even make a referral to someone else. I heard earlier that doctors are here to try to keep us alive and not to have us die. When I think about, sometimes, the mental capacity of individuals wanting to die—I don’t know whether there’s anything to measure that they’re protected.

The other question, and I would even address the minister on this, is that sometimes family members who perhaps stand to benefit from—that sounds very callous, but it’s a reality.

I think back to 1979, when my mother was diagnosed with cancer throughout her body. Wanting to die was never an option for her. I thank the medical profession, because they kept her as comfortable as possible, and then that moment came when she took her last breath. From a selfish point of view, I didn’t want her to die. I know that she was being kept comfortable with various drugs—morphine and others—but eventually, her time did come.

I would ask, perhaps in committee, that consideration be given to the conscience rights, and then there might be ways of looking at people who stand to benefit, but for the wrong reasons, not the right reasons.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Questions and comments?

Mr. John Vanthof: It’s always an honour to be able to stand in this House and speak on behalf of the residents of Timiskaming–Cochrane, and on this issue, I’ve spoken one time before.

Some of the comments from the member from Oshawa and the comments from the Minister of Health regarding consultation—I think both expressed how—I’m sure for the Minister of Health this is a very personal issue. He’s doing the best job with a very tough issue.

The member from Oshawa—because it’s so personal to us all, quite frankly, this is an issue where there will always be people who feel that there has been a lack of consultation. Some of the best debates in this House have been held on this issue. The member we just heard from used personal experiences. The member from Niagara Falls used personal experiences. We’re all doing this because it’s an issue that’s so close to our hearts. It’s a very tough issue to deal with.

My previous time speaking on this—the thing we have to make sure we maintain is the dignity of choice at the end of life, but that we maintain people’s dignity throughout life, that people throughout the province have access to palliative care, people throughout the province have access to a high-quality standard of long-term care and people throughout the province have a high standard of health care. That’s something that people from all sides of the House, both as government and in opposition, are striving to provide.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Questions and comments?

Mr. John Fraser: Just to respond to the member from Oshawa, I’m sure her grandmother is proud if she’s tuned in right now. I’m sure she tunes in every day.

Beyond this debate, if you want to talk about consultation, it’s incumbent on all of us as members to engage our community in any way we can. We need to do that.

This is a critical issue—not just this, but the whole end-of-life journey, and making sure the health care system knows what you want, and in thinking about it, thinking about what’s important to you.

So trying to balance the rights of a patient and the rights of a practitioner—we have to find enough space to make it work. That’s our duty as legislators, and I’m looking forward to this getting to committee.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): I return to the member from Oshawa to wrap up.

Ms. Jennifer K. French: I appreciate the responses and comments from my colleagues around the room.

I’ll start with the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. Yes, we’ll always have the conversation about consultation, what it can and should look like. As he outlined, it was consultation around the province, and it will need to continue to be.

As the member from Ottawa South put it, the continuing engagement across communities—but not just engaging in our communities and in our offices; having a place to put that engagement, I think, is an important piece to this as well. As I mentioned, when we are discovering some of those ripple effects, what do we then do with it? How does that feedback come back and better inform the system, fine-tune it and make it better going forward?

It will always be, as my colleague from Timiskaming–Cochrane said, that balance and need for consultation. It will always be a point of debate and discussion—because there are individuals across our communities who are just now starting to get wind of this conversation because they are on their own journey. That is something we need to bear in mind: How do they now engage in the conversations? How do we learn from them? And how do they better understand what their options are, their choices are?

As the member from Timiskaming–Cochrane said: dignity of choice at end of life but also dignity throughout life. That brings me back to what I had said about that holistic health care, finding our way to strengthen pieces of health care and how they fit together so that, throughout the journey, we have that support.

The member from Chatham–Kent–Essex: Thank you for again reminding us that we have to find that balance with some—

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Thank you. Further debate? I recognize the member from St. Catharines.

Mr. James J. Bradley: I’ve been very impressed, over the last several days in the Legislature, with the quality of debate that has taken place on this particular issue. It has not been partisan, in my view. A lot of very personal experiences and personal views have been expressed on legislation that’s required as a result of a ruling of the Supreme Court of Canada and federal legislation which calls upon provincial governments to move forward with specific rules and regulations.

All of us have had conversations with those who have very strong views on this. I’ve heard several members of the House even today make reference to how important it will be in committee to genuinely listen to the people who come before the committee to make their representations. There will no doubt be amendments that will be forthcoming as a result of the conversation here and conversations we’ve had outside of here.

Bill 84, if passed, will support the implementation of medical assistance in dying by providing more protection and greater clarity for patients, their families and their health care providers. All of those are important people in this particular issue.

Speaker, the issue of death is a difficult topic for anyone to discuss, but it’s necessary to have this conversation as a result of the Supreme Court and the federal legislation and as a result of the debate that has taken place across Canada and indeed all over the world.

Here in the Legislature—to show how significant this is—we’ve been discussing medical assistance in dying for over nine hours, but the conversation certainly isn’t over yet. Most of my colleagues in this room have talked about the need to continue consultation with Ontarians despite, as the Minister of Health has said, the fact that there has been extensive consultation. Others have said in the House that some people are just now learning about the legislation and no doubt would like to have that input.

The member for Nipissing, in a very compelling and heartfelt speech, said, “I’m really looking forward to continuing to have conversations at home, in my constituency office, to find out more as people are starting to hear more about the level and depth of this bill, and to hear more of what my constituents have to say.” Mr. Fedeli was very sincere in the House when he said that.

Also, my colleague Bob Bailey—I know I’m supposed to use “Sarnia–Lambton,” but I call him Bob Bailey; he thinks it’s okay but the House does not, so I’ll say “the member for Sarnia–Lambton”—said in the House, “Some of our thoughts on this in caucus are that obviously we want to support this bill. We’d like to see some amendments to it.” That’s very understandable in legislation of this kind.

Similarly, I’ve heard from the third party their support for the bill and the need for everyone to work together to create the best possible legislation. The member from Windsor-Tecumseh said the following: “This bill is very much needed. It’s overdue. It needs support from all sides of the House. It is very sensitive but there’s no denying it has to get done—no denying that—because we have to comply with the federal legislation and have to comply with the Supreme Court of Canada.

We have to get together and make this happen because this is something—we have to be sensitive; we have to look out for those who don’t agree with it. But, Speaker, we just have to get together and make it happen,” said Percy Hatfield, the member from Windsor-Tecumseh.

There has been some very interesting and heartfelt debate in here and a desire to see a genuine exercise in committee, which will be benefiting this legislation as it ultimately emerges from this House.

Therefore, I believe it is time that this bill be referred to committee, where all sides of the House will have another opportunity to work together, hear from stakeholders and members of the public, and consider every aspect of this important bill.

As a result, Speaker, I move that the question be now put.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Mr. Bradley has moved that the question now be put. The Clerk also informed me that there were 23 speakers over seven days for over nine hours and 40 minutes of debate, so I’m satisfied that sufficient debate time has been allowed for this question to be put to the House.

Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?

All those in favour of the motion that the question now be put, please say “aye.”

All those opposed to the motion, please say “nay.”

In my opinion, the ayes have it.

A recorded vote being required, this will be deferred until after question period.

Vote deferred.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Orders of the day.

Supporting Children, Youth and Families Act, 2017 / Loi de 2017 sur le soutien à l’enfance, à la jeunesse et à la famille

Resuming the debate adjourned on March 8, 2017, on the motion for second reading of the following bill:

Bill 89,

An Act to enact the Child, Youth and Family Services Act, 2017, to amend and repeal the Child and Family Services Act and to make related amendments to other Acts / Projet de loi 89, Loi édictant la Loi de 2017 sur les services à l’enfance, à la jeunesse et à la famille, modifiant et abrogeant la

Loi sur les services à l’enfance et à la famille et apportant des modifications connexes à d’autres lois.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): I recognize the member from Prince Edward–Hastings.

Mr. Todd Smith: It’s a pleasure to continue where we left off last night when we were talking about Bill 89, a piece of legislation that is long overdue. It has been 32 years since this piece of legislation has been updated. A lot has changed over that time.

I only have a short time left, but I do want to talk about some of the great work that has been done by our local children’s aid society, the Highland Shores Children’s Aid Society. I talked yesterday about some of the historical problems that have occurred with some local children’s aid societies in my region, but the Highland Shores Children’s Aid Society, which is responsible for Prince Edward, Hastings and Northumberland counties, is on the right track, Madam Speaker. They’re doing some great work.

Just this past weekend, they had a great event—it was the charitable arm of the CAS, the Children’s Foundation, as it’s known. They had their Guardian Angel Gala. Every year, on March 1, they have a great event at the Sears Atrium in Belleville, where they give a local donor or activist their Guardian Angel wings for the work they do in protecting and supporting children in our region, especially those who are most vulnerable. I know that on Saturday night, Ken and Cynthya Schmidt, who operate the McDonald’s restaurants in Trenton and Brighton, received their Guardian Angel wings.

They’re very, very important people in our community for the work that they do, and the philanthropic work that they do as well.

Last year, John and Heather Williams received their Guardian Angel wings. And every year they honour a very influential couple or business person, or even a team of volunteers. The Rick Meagher Charity Golf Classic group received their Guardian Angel wings a few years ago. So it’s really nice that those people are honoured for all the work that they do. Plus we raised a lot of money Saturday night at this gala to support our most vulnerable kids.

One of the great events that the Children’s Foundation also does in Quinte is Reach for Success. I know my colleague from Northumberland–Quinte West has attended this event in the past, as well, where they actually give out $50 bills to kids who are in the children’s aid society system. They hand out these bills on stage at the Empire Theatre or on stage at Loyalist College, and the kids are just thrilled to receive this. They’ve accomplished something, whether it’s a spelling contest or an art contest or their music lessons. But they get that $50 reward and it means so much to these kids.

If they work hard, they can accomplish great things and they get a nice little red $50 bill, too, for their work.

So there’s a lot of great things happening at the Highland Shores Children’s Aid Society, and I just wanted to point out a few great things.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Questions and comments?

Ms. Jennifer K. French: I’m glad to give comments. I’m sorry that I missed the bulk of the member’s talk. I appreciated hearing just the tail end there, so I will make my comments to that, and of course a little more broadly.

This is our opportunity to finish up or to add to the conversation on Bill 89, which focuses on our children and our youth. I’m the critic for youth engagement, interestingly, and so it’s always been an area of focus for me, especially coming out of public education and working with youth from across our communities and really listening to them. I can’t help it; I put such value on them, on their journeys and on their voices, and continue to—but in this role, to add in the layers of hearing from the caring professionals who work with them in different ways, through our children’s aid societies and in different partner organizations that support our youth.

A piece of this bill that I’d like to have more time to talk about, but I won’t right now because I only have 32 seconds left, is bringing the children who are 16 and 17 years old under the care umbrella and what that will look like, the fact that of course it needs to happen. To imagine that we have an identified group of our youth that were falling through the cracks and were left without that care—of course they need to be brought into care and under that umbrella, but what will that look like, and making sure that that’s best supported, especially when it comes to the workers delivering that care, their caseloads, their care loads.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Questions and comments.

Hon. Reza Moridi: It’s a great pleasure to rise in this House and to speak to Bill 89, which enacts the Child, Youth and Family Services Act.

It’s very clear that children, youth—the people—are the best assets of every nation, every jurisdiction. That’s why our government, under Premier Kathleen Wynne, is committed to do everything possible so that our kids, our children and our youth reach their full potential. That’s why we have brought this bill forward. We’re strengthening the current bill so that we can provide the best services for our children and the youth in this province.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Questions and comments.

Interjection.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): No, you’re not in your seat.

Questions and comments?

Mr. Sam Oosterhoff: Very quickly—it’s an honour to be able to stand up, as always, and represent the fine constituents of Niagara West–Glanbrook.

I must confess that I was lost in conversation about a very important issue regarding the school closures that this government has failed to cease, which is also an issue we need to talk about when it comes to youth. I think education is something that, obviously—

Interjections.

Mr. Sam Oosterhoff: Keeping children safe and the—

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): I need to remind the member that he needs to refer back to the bill.

Mr. Sam Oosterhoff: All right. I appreciate the comments from the members opposite, and I would appreciate if they kept them also professional.

The reality is that, as we look at the Child and Family Services Act, for many years—we see now that it is 32 years old. Changes to ensure our most vulnerable children are protected and to provide the best service possible—it’s long overdue to ensure we reach that.

Children deserve a safe and loving home which respects them as individuals. We support giving children rights and a voice in their future. The reality is that we need to support the integrity and the autonomy of the family, and take the least disruptive action possible moving forward. Services to children and young persons should be provided in a manner that respects the children’s needs and takes into account the physical, mental, developmental, emotional and spiritual needs as we approach these issues.

I’m pleased that this bill is being brought forward.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Questions and comments?

Mr. John Vanthof: As always, it’s an honour to stand in this House, and today to follow the member from Prince Edward–Hastings and his remarks on Bill 89. I do only have a couple of minutes, and I didn’t hear the first part of his remarks but, as always, he was focusing on local people in his riding, as we all try to do.

Specifically, on Bill 89, it has to do with the children’s aid societies. The people who work with kids and work with families who are under stress play a huge, very important role in our society. By far, the vast, vast majority do incredible work. But the reason we have to have strong regulations is to protect on the very rare occasions that that doesn’t happen.

Some of this bill takes work from our member from Hamilton Mountain, who introduced Katelynn’s Principle. We all know the story of what happened to that young girl and how she perished while under the care of a children’s aid society. Many things in this bill look into that, and there are many issues of this bill that we support. Many issues here in this House are very partisan; this one isn’t. With this one, we are all working together to try to make sure that the most vulnerable in our society are always protected.

I personally take a bit of offence when I hear words like, “That’s why the Wynne government is working so hard on this issue.” I think everyone is working incredibly hard on this issue. This isn’t one to take political points on. I take offence to that. This one is for making sure that we protect those who can’t protect themselves.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): I return to the member from Prince Edward–Hastings to wrap up.

Mr. Todd Smith: Thank you to the members of the Legislature who have provided some remarks on Bill 89: the members from Oshawa, Richmond Hill, Niagara West–Glanbrook and Timiskaming–Cochrane.

I would tend to agree with the member from Timiskaming–Cochrane. I know this is a very important issue for everyone on the PC bench, as it is on the NDP bench and with the Liberals as well. It’s a bill that is long overdue, as many of us have mentioned throughout the course of this debate. It’s been 32 years since it was last updated, so many, many things have changed over that time.

It isn’t a partisan issue. Many of the members of the Legislature have brought forward little chunks of what Bill 89 contains, whether it was the member from Stormont–Dundas–South Glengarry who brought forward private member’s legislation—and previously, the former member from Barrie, Rod Jackson, brought forward a bill. I know the member from Hamilton Mountain, from the NDP, has been a tremendous advocate for protecting our most vulnerable in our communities, as has our critic Sylvia Jones from Dufferin–Caledon, and now the current critic, Gila Martow from Thornhill.

They’ve all done great work, as many members on the other side of the House have as well, in making sure that the most vulnerable people in our community, our youngest children in care, get the services that they require, but also that it’s done in a safe and respectful environment for these kids.

That’s why it’s so imperative that a bill like Bill 89 gets updated after 32 years. It shouldn’t take 32 years, Madam Speaker. It should be updated far more often than that. There are many, many items in Bill 89. It’s a thick document—270 pages, I think. There will be some very thoughtful amendments put forward when this eventually does get to committee.

I thank you for your time this morning and I must say, I love your glasses, Madam Speaker. They’re excellent.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Thank you. Further debate?

Hon. Reza Moridi: It’s a pleasure to rise again in this House and speak to Bill 89, the Child, Youth and Family Services Act.

Madam Speaker, as I indicated earlier, youth and children are the greatest assets of our country, our province of Ontario. They are the future of this nation. Our government is committed to doing everything we possibly can to make sure that our children have a better start in their lives.

The proposed legislation, if passed, will strengthen the minister’s ability to hold children’s aid societies accountable for the services they provide to our children. It will also strengthen their ability to hold CASs, children’s aid societies, accountable for the public funds they manage.

It also supports First Nations, Métis and Inuit children, youth and families through the delivery of culturally appropriate supports that respect indigenous traditions, cultures and heritage.

In the past, the opposition members all have spoken in support of this bill. I’m just going to quote a few members.

The member from Thornhill said, “I want to summarize a bit by saying that the PC caucus and I intend to support Bill 89, but we’re looking forward to proposing some amendments in the committee and hearing all of the input from the communities.”

Also, the member from Hamilton Mountain said, “We welcome these changes that are being incorporated. We’re thrilled to see Katelynn’s Principle reflected. We’re thrilled to see Jordan’s Principle reflected. We are thrilled to see the work of youth, through the child advocate’s office, that is being incorporated into this bill here before us.”

Also, the member from Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound said, “I want to ensure that this legislation goes forward, that it goes to committee and that we focus on the rights and needs of the children, and the wishes of the child.”

Finally, the member from Timmins–James Bay said, “This bill has got to go to committee. There’s a lot of good in this bill.”

Madam Speaker, as you know, this bill has seen more than nine hours of debate in this House and many members have already spoken to this bill in this Legislature. However, at this point, much of the conversation and debate are just repeating points already made by members. So it’s time that the bill be put to a vote for second reading and hopefully be referred to committee for further conversation and discussion. As a result, I move that the question be now put.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Mr. Moridi has moved that the question now be put. I understand from the Clerk that more than nine hours of debate have occurred on this particular bill. I’m satisfied that there has been sufficient debate to allow this question to be put to the House. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?

All those in favour of the motion that the question now be put, please say “aye.”

All those opposed to the motion that the question now be put, please say “nay.”

In my opinion, the ayes have it.

A recorded vote will be required. This will be deferred until after question period today.

Vote deferred.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Orders of the day? I recognize the Minister of Children and Youth Services.

Hon. Michael Coteau: No further business, Madam Chair.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Thank you. The House will now be recessed until 10:30.

The House recessed from 1003 to 1030.

Introduction of Visitors

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: First and foremost, I would like to recognize five of the students at École secondaire catholique Pierre-Savard from my constituency: Magalie Kayrouz, Mariette René, Lindsey Alcy, Lise Simb and, of course, my former summer student and hopefully future summer student, Michel Hajjar. It’s good to see you.

I also have in the gallery with me today my 11-year-old daughter, Victoria. As many of you know, she arrived here when I first arrived. She’s 11 years, and I’ve got 11 years here. She wanted to come here for her birthday, as she does every year. She’ll be turning 12 next week. What I wanted to say is that I spent most of the week with Daughters of the Vote on Parliament Hill, and it was one of the most incredible experiences of my life. She had the opportunity to go to Parliament Hill yesterday and instead decided she wanted to come here to the Ontario Legislature because she really likes you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): What a great save that was. The member from Timmons–James Bay.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Before I do my introductions, I just want to say that I had the pleasure of being taught mathematics by a future Tory member over here. That was fun earlier this morning, but I was rebounded because my colleague Jennifer French then taught a lesson back. Who says New Democrats can’t teach a Tory old tricks?

Comme on le voit dans les estrades, on a nos amis d’à travers la province, de nos écoles secondaires. Ils sont ici avec nous autres pour le Parlement des jeunes. De la part du NPD et de notre chef, M me Horwath, on vous dit bienvenue ici à Queen’s Park.

Hon. Chris Ballard: I’d like to welcome Charlotte Bouthillette, a youth from my riding who is attending the francophone youth Parliament reception. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

M me Gila Martow: J’aimerais accueillir les étudiants du Parlement des jeunes. Hier, on a chanté, à une réception, le nouvel hymne des Franco-Ontariens et Franco-Ontariennes : Notre Place. Merci beaucoup et bienvenue.

Miss Monique Taylor: I would also like to welcome some youth who are here for the francophone youth parliamentarian reception. We have Ibrahim Oleiche and Luke MacDonald, both from Hamilton Mountain, and from Hamilton Centre we have Fatima Haggar. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

L’hon. Yasir Naqvi: Aujourd’hui nous avons en Chambre : Reed Victoria, Alice Congera, Katie Bolger, Jennica Thomas, Lydia Philippe, Aline Ahouzi, Sanayah Zéphir, Carlie Angelle Pierre, Yasmine Zemni, Clémence Thabet, Mathew Casey-Juarez et Fèmi-Joëlle Dadjo de la grande circonscription d’Ottawa-Centre et Ottawa–Orléans. Bienvenue à Queen’s Park.

Mr. Michael Harris: I’d like to welcome Stephen Kropf from New Dundee in the region of Waterloo. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: I’d also like to welcome the participants for the francophone model Parliament. I have three students from London–Fanshawe, so please everyone help me welcome Laël Addis Mikwete Nobantu, Abigail Twaites and Bianelle Sylvain Allard.

Hon. Helena Jaczek: I’d like to welcome to Queen’s Park this morning a 30-year veteran of the Ontario public service with the Ministry of the Environment and Climate Change, the new president of the Professional Engineers Government of Ontario and a constituent from my riding, Scott Grant; as well as PEGO director George Collins.

Ms. Sylvia Jones: Please join me in welcoming Dr. Stephen Milone. He is the proud dad of our page Benjamin. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

M. Michael Mantha: J’aimerais prendre le temps de souhaiter la bienvenue aux étudiants qui sont ici du Parlement jeunesse, surtout à Emily Fox de Blind River, et, surtout, à tous les participants qui sont du nord de l’Ontario.

M. Shafiq Qaadri: J’ai le plaisir d’accueillir quelques-uns de mes invités.

I’m honoured to welcome guests and the family of page captain Prey Patel, who is standing next to me now: his father—and please do rise—Mr. Kanaiyalal Patel; mother, Mrs. Surekhaben Patel; sister Anal Patel; accompanied ably by their teacher Mrs. Colleen Hull.

Mr. Jim McDonell: I would like to welcome, from the francophone model Parliament, Valérie Chevrier from my riding, from École secondaire catholique La Citadelle.

M. John Vanthof: Il me fait plaisir d’introduire Daphnée Veilleux-Michaud, Alexa Leduc, puis Jazmyn Labelle du Parlement francophone.

Hon. Dipika Damerla: I want to introduce a constituent, Benedicte Tshiama, from ÉSC Sainte-Famille, who is here with the francophone youth Parliament. Bienvenue à Queen’s Park.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: I too would like to welcome Breanna Wilson and Patrick Bethune from École secondaire catholique Algonquin in North Bay.

Hon. Reza Moridi: Please join me in welcoming my colleague Charlene Baptist from my office at the ministry. She’s visiting the House today.

Ms. Sophie Kiwala: I would like to extend a very warm welcome to Mary Ellen Gucciardi in the members’ east gallery; Jaclynne Hamel, one of my EAs; and Rosa Gutierrez, my parliamentary assistant.

Un grand accueil chaleureux à Alexandra Allain et Nathan Feuillat, de Mille-Îles à Kingston, Ontario.

Hon. Charles Sousa: I’d like to welcome to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario today Gabriela Cavaco, who is the chief representative of Banco Santander Totta here in Toronto. She’s joined by her colleagues Mr. António Carneiro, a director of the international division, and Mr. Pedro Fialho, also a director of the international division.

Bem-vindos ao Ontário e à Assembleia do Ontário.

Ms. Jennifer K. French: I am also pleased to welcome to the Legislature for le Parlement jeunesse franco-ontarien Mélodie Ouellette, who lives in Courtice and goes to school in Whitby, so who is sort of from Oshawa.

M. Grant Crack: Il me fait un grand plaisir de souhaiter la bienvenue aux étudiants de ma circonscription de Glengarry–Prescott–Russell: Trevor Stewart, Mireille Latulippe, Philippe Desforges, Mélodie Dubuc, Fadia Duquette, et Jean-Simon Brassard. Bienvenue à tous.

Hon. Mitzie Hunter: I too would like to join members of the Legislature in welcoming all of the students from the francophone model Parliament who are here today. We met last night and they’re an enthusiastic bunch of students.

Hon. Chris Ballard: On behalf of the Minister of Transportation, I’d like to welcome Rosa Campione. Rosa is the mother of Elizabeth-Anne Campione, a legislative page from Vaughan.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Further introductions?

Just one comment for our model Parliament students and for the members themselves: I want to give a very strong shout-out and thank you to the staff here at the Legislature who put the program together. Thank you very much.

Oral Questions

Energy policies

Mr. Patrick Brown: My question is for the Premier. While the Liberal government is in the mood for acknowledging their mistakes, I have a suggestion: They can acknowledge another one. That mistake would be the fact that this government refuses to make the cost of cap-and-trade visible on natural gas bills. Will the Premier announce that that mistake is going to be corrected today?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Energy.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: Once again, I’m please to rise and acknowledge the work that this government is doing to address climate change. The action of us doing nothing would have been catastrophic. That’s why it’s this government that acted. We brought forward cap-and-trade and our climate change action plan.

As the Leader of the Opposition well knows, Mr. Speaker, the decision to put cap-and-trade onto the bills within natural gas was a decision that was made by the Ontario Energy Board. They did consultation after consultation. They talked with the industry stakeholders, and they said that this was a cost of doing business. That cost will not be a part of the conversation as they move forward. But this was an OEB decision.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Patrick Brown: Back to the Premier: The reason this Liberal government does not want to admit this mistake is that they want to cover up and hide the fact that this is a cash grab.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member has to withdraw.

Mr. Patrick Brown: Withdraw.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Carry on.

Mr. Patrick Brown: The government is trying to hide this cash grab—$1.9 billion a year—to pander to voters, not to help the environment; not to make a real difference. If it was anything more than a cash grab, they would be open and transparent about it. This is a Premier who promised she would be open and transparent, and this is the exact opposite.

So my question, Mr. Speaker, directly to the Premier: In the spirit of being open and transparent, will you do the right thing? Will you make sure that this cost is very visible and the government no longer hides it?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: Minister of the Environment and Climate Change.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: I really enjoy the Leader of the Opposition, the man with no plan. He has no plan to reduce electricity by 25%. He won’t support us. But he does have a plan, Mr. Speaker, on climate change, and we’re so excited about it. He wants to introduce a carbon tax, a carbon tax that wouldn’t put three cents on natural gas; it would put over 12 cents. It’s a carbon tax that wouldn’t put four cents on propane; it would put it at 10 cents, just like BC. He would put not four cents on gasoline but 16 cents on gasoline.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

I want to make this clear—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): —so I’ll wait. Let me be perfectly clear. I was quite prepared to call the member to order simply because the members on his own side were making enough noise that I could not hear. That has been going on since we started question period, on both sides.

You now know that I’m paying attention. I’m asking that you let us get through this question period with a reasonable amount of decorum between each other and for each other, particularly on the government side. When someone’s answering a question, I’m hearing heckling from the same side. I’m also hearing heckling from the opposition.

Please finish.

Mr. Patrick Brown: Mr. Speaker, back to the Premier: Once again, the minister is simply making it up. This is a cash grab, and the government is trying to hide it.

Lorrie Goldstein pointed out, “Once Ontario joins the California/Quebec cap-and-trade market next year, all bets are off.” Only 18% of the permits were sold last month, in terms of the latest auction.

Mr. Speaker, how much money will taxpayers be on the hook for because of this disastrous cap-and-trade?

Hon. Glen R. Murray: Mr. Speaker, let me just finish, because he keeps on telling us—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I thought I was being reasonable, so let’s go. The member from Leeds–Grenville, come to order. And I think there were two others, but I wasn’t quite sure which one it was.

Carry on.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition keeps on telling us that he likes this BC carbon tax model, which would add not five cents on diesel, as our lower-cost system would, but almost 20 cents. That, as he said, would make him the best leader Michigan ever had, to use his words. He—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): All right. The member from Leeds–Grenville, second time. And a few of you—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): —the member from Simcoe–Grey—are pushing me to warnings.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: To come anywhere near—and those are numbers at 20, 30, 40 or 50, under the federal government’s cap. That’s the minimum amount, Mr. Speaker, that would be required. So if he isn’t using the BC model, which costs four times as much as the Ontario model, just what is his position?

School closures

Mr. Patrick Brown: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Premier. Since the Minister of Education ran away from Allison Jones when she was asked this question, maybe the Premier will answer it for us. I’ll give the Premier this opportunity. Mr. Speaker, very clearly, how many Ontario schools are under the threat of closure? Will the Premier please answer?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Education.

Hon. Mitzie Hunter: We know that when it comes to pupil accommodation reviews and school consolidations, those are very tough decisions that school boards have to make. That’s in fact why we’ve put a process in place where they need to consult with municipalities, consult with their local communities. What’s important to know is that these are locally elected officials in their communities who are making these very difficult decisions.

It’s important that we get that information from those local communities, and that’s exactly what we have done, Speaker, so that when we’re talking about school consolidations we know that these are decisions that are tough for local decision makers and that we’re getting that information straight from them. And that’s exactly what we’re doing.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Patrick Brown: Mr. Speaker, my question again will be to the Premier. On Tuesday, the minister said it’s not about the number of schools. She wouldn’t give an arbitrary number. That’s great, because nobody wanted an arbitrary number; they wanted a real number. So I’ll try again, Mr. Speaker: How many schools are under the threat of closure? Is it as high as the 600 schools the minister previously identified? When will we get a real answer from this government? Will the Premier please answer?

Hon. Mitzie Hunter: Mr. Speaker, let’s look at the facts. We have pupil accommodation reviews that are happening across the province. There are 43 of those that are happening. We know these are very difficult conversations for locally elected school boards to have with their communities. Of that, there are 300 schools that are involved in those very difficult decisions. In the 2016-17 school year, through this very difficult process, we have seen boards decide to close 19 schools.

It’s important that we respect the role of the locally elected school boards as they are leading this process in their communities together with their municipalities, with parents and with communities. We know that these are very tough decisions for our boards.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary?

There’s an opportunity here. There is an opportunity to put in a moratorium. I was disappointed that the Liberal members voted against our moratorium yesterday, but there’s an opportunity for the government to take ownership of this and say, “No more school closures, and we will support the moratorium.”

So my question to the Premier is, can she do the right thing and stop closing schools left, right and centre across the province of Ontario? Our students deserve better. Our communities deserve better.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Minister?

Hon. Mitzie Hunter: You know, Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition talks about what is happening in local communities, and I want to say that we have actually invested $16 billion in school capital infrastructure, building 810 new schools and 780 expansions, or changing the configuration of a school. We’re doing that to ensure that our students in Ontario receive the best education possible.

Of that number, 450 new schools are in rural communities, with $1.1 billion in capital that we’re investing. As we talk about what is happening in rural communities, it’s important that we look at the fact that, yes, there are difficult conversations happening in terms of reviewing the accommodation needs in schools, and there are also conversations happening about the investments that we’re making in those local communities and building up and strengthening our communities.

Hydro rates

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: My question is to the Premier. Yesterday was International Women’s Day. Because of systemic inequality, we all know that women are disproportionately affected by skyrocketing hydro bills—women like Valentina, who lives in Brantford. She says what keeps her up at night is not knowing when hydro bills are going to increase again. The Premier’s plan is nothing more than a band-aid. It offers no comfort to women, like Valentina, who can’t save for their kids’ futures because they don’t know when hydro bills are going to go up again.

When will this Premier understand that her plan is nothing more than a plan to help bankers instead of helping the everyday people of Ontario, people like Valentina, who need a permanent solution that will actually keep hydro bills down?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I know that the Minister of Energy is just raring to answer the supplementary question.

I want to just say to the member opposite that it was International Women’s Day yesterday. I hope that he had an opportunity to see the announcement that we made in the morning about levelling the playing field for women in sports, because it is extremely important, as we know. Some 94% of women executives say that they competed in sport and it made a difference to them in their career trajectory. The announcement we made will mean that provincial sport organizations will be required to have equity policies in place. We’re putting money into training women coaches. It’s a very important initiative in terms of levelling the playing field for women in sport in Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Sharon is a senior who lives in Sault Ste. Marie. The Premier and this government have heard Sharon’s story before. She lives in only one room of her apartment because she can’t afford the peak time-of-use fees to keep the heat on during the day in her apartment. Since the Premier claims that her plan is designed to help women like Sharon, why didn’t she put an end to the unfair, mandatory time-of-use fees that leave Sharon suffering at home in the cold?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Energy.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Chief government whip, second time.

Minister of Energy.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: Our plan will reduce those bills by 25%. Specifically in Sault Ste. Marie and area, if those folks live on the outskirts, if they’re a Hydro One customer, if they’re an Algoma Power customer, they are going to see their bills reduced between 40% and 50%.

But it’s not only Sault Ste. Marie that is going to see the benefits; it’s right across the province. Yesterday, when I was in Hamilton—the mayor of Hamilton, Fred Eisenberger, was in the news yesterday talking about our hydro plan. Do you know what he said, Mr. Speaker? Our government’s plan to reduce our bills by 25% is “a very positive step” for their city’s hydro customers. He credited our government with listening to Ontarians and implementing what he calls “dramatic” reductions.

The party on that side has put together a proposal—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Finish, please.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: I know their proposal is nothing—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Finish, please—wrap up.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: It’s nothing more than wishful thinking on that side.

We’re putting in place a plan that offers significant relief for all Ontarians.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary?

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Mr. Speaker, women across this province are suffering under the weight of skyrocketing hydro bills—women like Valentina, Sharon, and Mehru Malik, a small business owner in Sarnia. Mehru had to leave behind her family in Brampton, her husband and children, because the cost of high hydro bills meant that she had to lay off many of her workers. Now she lives in Sarnia, and that means that she only gets to see her family on weekends, if she’s lucky.

These women and their families expected more from this Premier and this government than the desperate band-aid fix that they revealed last week.

When will the Premier stop putting bankers and well-connected insiders ahead of everyday people and the women of this province, and put forward a plan that actually puts them and their families first?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: All people within this province, Mr. Speaker, are going to see that 25% reduction. Small businesses, as well, are going to see that savings. That’s how widely we acted, because we heard from Ontarians that they wanted more relief.

We brought forward the 8% reduction, but we heard that people needed more. So we acted, and we brought forward a 25% reduction.

Their plan, Mr. Speaker, does nothing. It does absolutely nothing to help the women that he mentioned. Our plan will. It helps them in small businesses. It reduces their bills by 25%. It reduces their home bills by 25%. What they’re talking about is not even saving a single cent. Their plan doesn’t even mention low-income and vulnerable people until the last page, and they’re saying, “Wait.” We’re saying we’re going to act by summer.

School closures

Mr. Paul Miller: My question is to the Premier. Yesterday, freedom-of-information documents revealed that the Premier knows that she is closing schools at full capacity, based on a failed Mike Harris funding formula. Since 2011, the Liberal government has closed more than 277 schools.

Can the Premier please tell the moms and the dads out there which of these 277 schools were operating at full capacity when they were closed?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Education.

Hon. Mitzie Hunter: I want to thank the member opposite for this question, because the very reason why schools are doing accommodation reviews is so that they can review and look at those facts, including the utilization of schools, the definition of boundaries for schools and to ensure that they are making the best possible decision on behalf of students in their local communities. That’s exactly the work that the school boards are doing in these reviews, and that’s why we have to ensure that they have an opportunity to have this very difficult but meaningful conversation with their local communities, receiving input from municipalities and working together with their local boards.

We’ve sent a letter just this week, the Minister of Infrastructure and I, asking them to continue those conversations, because they are important to the decisions of the future of their schools.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Paul Miller: Speaker, let me narrow this down a bit. There have been more than 20 schools closed by the Liberal government in my community of Hamilton since 2011. Some of them are Crestwood, Eastmount Park, King George—and can you imagine?—Sir John A. Macdonald and Linden Park. Can the Premier tell Hamiltonians which of these schools were closed while operating at full capacity?

Hon. Mitzie Hunter: I actually just said in response to the question that came forward from the opposition that we’ve actually invested in 810 new schools in this province and 780 expansions or renovations: more than $16 billion in capital infrastructure invested in our schools. We’re continuing to make these investments.

Just a few months ago I was in Hamilton, and it’s a great example of two school boards coming together to make the best decision on behalf of their schools—the French Catholic school board and the French public school board—to build one new school that will in fact have a community use and it will also serve the needs of French high school students in Hamilton. We are making these investments in local communities because they are in the best interests of our students.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary?

Mr. Paul Miller: Schools play an important role in Hamilton and everywhere else in the province. They support neighbourhoods. They bring communities together. Parents in Hamilton are absolutely furious to learn that the Premier has been closing schools that are full. They are furious that the government modernization plan runs contrary to the stated community hub plan—and they know it. No one’s fooling anyone here.

Here are a couple more for you: Prince Philip, Roxborough Park, St. Thomas—and I could go on and on. Can the Premier tell parents in my community and across this province how many of these schools were operating at full capacity when they were closed? We want some details.

Hon. Mitzie Hunter: Mr. Speaker, it’s important that we look at what the facts are and what is happening, because I just mentioned to the member that 810 new schools were built, and in addition, 780 extensions and renovations. When a school board is doing—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Finish, please.

Hon. Mitzie Hunter: When an accommodation review is happening, it’s really meant for the school board to gather that feedback in terms of the utilization, the condition of the building—

Hon. Jeff Leal: Mayor Eisenberger wants to know.

Hon. Mitzie Hunter: In fact, maybe a conversation like what happened in Peterborough, where we had two smaller schools that came together—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): There are a few people who know what I’m doing.

Carry on.

Hon. Mitzie Hunter: Thanks, Mr. Speaker—like the example in Peterborough, where Minister Leal and I had an opportunity to announce $13 million to build a brand new elementary school, with new facilities that will offer the best education—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. New question.

Hydro rates

Mr. Todd Smith: Thank you, Speaker, and good morning. My question this morning is for the Minister of Energy.

Last week I asked you, Minister, about the electricity increases—15% last year alone—at Quinte Health Care hospitals. Your announcement last week won’t actually roll back any of that. It barely addresses the increased cost of electricity going forward this year. What the minister did was side with his big Liberal donors in his energy scheme last year, instead of siding with the doctors and the staff and the patients at Quinte Health Care hospitals.

My question is this: How many billions of dollars in interest is the scheme that you announced last week going to cost electricity customers in the future?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: It’s very obvious that they don’t have a plan, so they’re making it up as they go.

I know last week the honourable member put out a tweet that he had to correct on air, when he said that what we were saying in that is inaccurate, just like the question—inaccurate information in it.

We’re making sure that all people in this province see a 25% reduction. Hospitals: Because of the structural changes that we are making to the system, they will see a reduction of between 2% and 4%. That’s significant. But hospitals also qualify for many of our programs; the saveONenergy program, for example. My hospital in greater Sudbury saved $400,000 a year by investing in the saveONenergy program and they put that back into health care.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Todd Smith: The price of electricity at Quinte Health Care hospitals has gone up 34% since 2012. That is accurate.

The minister had plenty of taxpayer money to throw around last week to bail out his government’s bad decisions that they’ve made on the energy file. And let’s call it what it is: A bailout is a bailout, and this bailout is trying to save the Liberal hide in the next election. He didn’t have a dime last week, however, for the patients and the doctors and the staff at Quinte Health Care hospitals.

I ask the minister again: How many billions of dollars in interest is his scheme that he announced last week going to cost electricity customers of Ontario in the future—how many billions of dollars?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: We’re saving Ontario ratepayers 25% on all of their bills. The only person who doesn’t understand about the billions they’re going to cost is, again, that party. They talk about ripping up contracts. I know the honourable member recognizes that they can’t do that because it will cost them billions—because they don’t have a plan.

We have a plan, Mr. Speaker. We’re bringing it forward. We’re helping businesses; we’re helping municipalities; we’re helping ratepayers. We’re making sure that everyone in this province will see a reduction on their electricity bills.

I know they don’t have a plan. The only thing they want to do is put a carbon tax on and then tax everything when they bring back coal.

Hydro rates

Ms. Sarah Campbell: My question is to the Premier. The Nickel Lake Lumber sawmill employs 25 people near Fort Frances. It has seen its hydro bills jump 50% in the last few years.

Mr. Kendall Lundy, the owner, tells me he has “just about had it” and that “everyone’s jobs are in jeopardy.” His competitors in Minnesota have hydro bills that are half of what he pays. What’s worse is that he is subsidizing cheap hydro exports to these competitors—costing ratepayers like Mr. Lundy billions of dollars each year.

Why does the Premier’s hydro plan have no solution at all to rein in these wasteful hydro exports and reduce overall hydro costs?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Energy.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: I’m pleased to rise to talk about the importance of our forestry sector and of course how important energy is to our forestry sector. I know the Minister of Natural Resources and Forestry will want to comment as well.

For us in northern Ontario, we recognize that our large industry plays a very important role, not only in our northern economy but in the economy of Ontario and of Canada. That’s why, thanks to this government, for northern Ontario we brought forward the NIER Program—the Northern Industrial Electricity Rate Program—which is helping every forestry company within all of northern Ontario. That’s why we’re so pleased to see that our forestry companies and their energy costs are one of the lowest—not only in Ontario, not only in Canada, but in all of North—

Mr. Gilles Bisson: What? What are you smoking?

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Timmins–James Bay will come to order, and he’s about that far away from having to withdraw. He knows I’m not happy.

Carry on.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: I know the company in Thunder Bay, Resolute—they’re talking about how their energy costs are some of the lowest in their entire fleet in North America.

We’re going to continue to work with our forestry sector and with our mining sector to ensure that they remain as competitive as possible with the lowest possible prices.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Sarah Campbell: Here’s the thing: The Premier’s hydro plan does next to nothing to help medium-sized businesses like Nickel Lake Lumber. The sawmill is too big to receive the 8% hydro rebate and, as far as we can tell, it also won’t receive the 17% in bill reductions that the Premier has promised for small businesses. But it is not big enough to have the capacity to participate in the expanded industrial conservation initiative.

The NDP’s plan would reduce hydro bills for all ratepayers, including medium-sized businesses like the Nickel Lake Lumber sawmill.

Why does the Premier’s plan exclude medium-sized businesses from the 25% in savings she has promised?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: I encourage the third party to read our plan, because medium-sized businesses will qualify under our new expansion of the ICI program. We’ve lowered the threshold to 500 kilowatts. We would encourage them to look at the plan.

But when talking about the forestry sector—I’ve got a letter here from Tembec, a very prominent forestry company. Let me quote: “Tembec is able to effectively manage our electricity cost exposure in Ontario through our participation in a variety of programs. As a result, electricity costs at the Tembec ... newsprint operations are comparable to our operations in other jurisdictions” and with other competitors.

We recognize the importance of the forestry sector, of the mining sector, of our resource sector.

That’s what we’re doing: bringing rates down with programs like the NIER Program, which is helping all of our industry.

Hydro rates

Mr. Shafiq Qaadri: Ma question est aussi pour le ministre de l’Énergie, the Honourable Glenn Thibeault.

Firstly, I’d like to thank the Minister of Energy, along with my colleagues the MPP for Etobicoke–Lakeshore, Minister Albanese and Minister Sousa, for joining us for a lively question-and-answer session with the multicultural press of Ontario. That announcement of the government’s energy plan generated an extraordinary amount of excitement—the 25% reduction of hydro bills for all Ontarians, otherwise known as Ontario’s Fair Hydro Plan.

Speaker, as you can imagine, such significant savings for household costs is an initiative not just for today, but for a sustainable program going forward.

In my own district, the exceptional riding of Etobicoke North, we are blessed by a huge number of condominiums. Minister, I ask you, how will my condo residents benefit from the government’s announcement of this 25% reduction in hydro costs?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: I want to thank the member for Etobicoke North for that important question and also for all of his work on this file. He and I were together the other night talking to constituents about this.

Ensuring that all Ontario households receive this benefit is important to me and to this government, Mr. Speaker, so I think it’s important that we clarify. If you pay an electricity bill for your residence, you will receive this benefit, regardless of whether you live in a house, a condo or an apartment. In fact, if your condo has facility costs that are shared among the residents, these shared electricity costs will also be receiving this reduction.

This is an essential part of our plan to increase the fairness of our electricity system in Ontario. That’s why not only will you see your bill reduced, but costs will be held to inflation for at least the next four years. We are proud of Ontario’s Fair Hydro Plan and the significant, lasting relief it will provide.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Shafiq Qaadri: I begin, Speaker, by thanking the minister not only for this program and his stewardship resulting in this 25% reduction of Ontario’s hydro costs, but also physically criss-crossing Ontario to explain the details to Ontarians.

Speaker, as you’ll appreciate, after decades of neglect of our electricity system—yes, by parties of all stripes—it is heartening now to see that the government is taking steps to secure an energy future that is clean, reliable, and most importantly, affordable to all.

I know that the 25% reduction in hydro bills applies to every one of the more than four million households in Ontario. This is especially welcome in my own area of Etobicoke North.

The minister has previously mentioned that many small businesses, as well as farms, will benefit from that reduction as well, and I understand there are even more groups that will qualify. My question is this: Will the minister please share with the House how this announcement will benefit other sectors of our economy?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: Again, I want to thank the member for this question and the opportunity to clarify this important point, Mr. Speaker. The 25% reduction through the fair hydro plan will not only apply to households, but to many other small ratepayers, as well. This includes hundreds of thousands of small businesses; the vast majority of farms, which I know the Minister of Agriculture works with day in and day out; small offices of all kinds, including non-profits and charities; retirement homes; long-term-care homes; housing co-ops; community agencies; those on retail contracts or with sub-meters; and more and more will qualify for this rebate.

The simplest thing to remember is, if your bill includes the time-of-use prices, you will be receiving the full benefits of this plan. This is going to mean major savings for these cross-sections of Ontario, and we’re happy to be implementing a plan.

Digital government

Mr. Sam Oosterhoff: My question is to the Deputy Premier.

Deputy Premier, in June 2016, your government opened up applications for a chief digital officer, a government executive whose job it would be to make life easier for people through easy-to-use online services and programs. However, it seems that this government doesn’t want to actually make life easier for people, because eight months have gone by and this chief digital officer is nowhere to be seen. Once again, the Liberals talk the talk, but won’t walk the walk.

When will the Deputy Premier, as minister responsible for digital government, get back to work and find a chief digital officer so that Ontarians can access the services and programs they deserve?

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Deputy Premier and minister responsible for digital government.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I want to say thank you to the member. This is the first question I have ever received as the minister responsible for digital government, so thank you for paying attention.

Digital government is all about providing services for the public that are faster, that are easier, that are simpler and that cost government less money. We are absolutely committed to moving forward on our digital strategy. Hiring a chief digital officer is very much part of that.

I will ask the member to be a little bit patient, because this is an important job that we are hoping to fill very soon.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Sam Oosterhoff: My question is back to the Deputy Premier. Ontarians have seen the result of this Liberal government’s bungling in digitization before. This government simply can’t be trusted to get the job done. Let’s look at the facts: eHealth was an $8-billion scandal and the rollout of the Social Assistance Management System, or SAMS, was a disaster.

Now the government has been putting forward CPIN, the Child Protection Information Network, a cumbersome system that won’t even have a searchable database. Consulting costs alone on CPIN have cost tens of millions. What will the Deputy Premier do to ensure this government delivers a digital system that is actually a service to the people of Ontario, instead of another expensive boondoggle?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: There are many initiatives that are already under way when it comes to digital government, and I have to say I’m enormously proud of our digital government team in Ontario; they’re doing excellent work.

One example of this, and one that I hope that all of the members in this House have actually taken advantage of, is the new OSAP calculator. This is a tool that allows people—students, elementary school students, their parents, high school students—to actually understand how generous and transparent our student assistance program now is. What it means is that hundreds of thousands of students in this province will have access to education because they have the ability, they’ve earned the right and they’ve been admitted—but free tuition for over 200,000 Ontario students, and more generous support.

Having that calculator available so that people know up front how much aid they can expect is a big, big step forward.

Hydro rates

Ms. Cindy Forster: My question is to the Premier.

My office has been flooded with complaints around skyrocketing hydro bills, from people like Lorna Lampman. Lorna has lived in St. Catharines—the whip may know her—for 30 years, and she says she’s never in her life seen a hydro bill so high. Her bills have tripled over the last few years. Her last hydro bill was $600. Lorna is in her early fifties. She has a decent job, but her husband is on a disability pension and they find themselves having to choose between whether they can put some money away for retirement or whether they’re going to pay that hydro bill.

Why is the Premier choosing to put $40 billion in the pockets of bankers and ignore the very people, like Lorna Lampman, who need our help most?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Energy.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: Thank you for the question.

It is important that we acted to ensure that we’re helping people, like the honourable member has mentioned. That’s why the fair hydro plan, the single largest electricity rate reduction in Ontario’s history, will be providing a 25% reduction for that family and for all families across the province.

While I don’t know the specifics of that individual family, the Ontario Electricity Support Program is there to help those types of families. And we also increased the OESP program by 50% and increased it so that more families and more individuals will qualify. The OESP program is there to help, and on top of that, we created the affordability fund. The affordability fund will actually help them, through their utility, to make their home more energy-conserving, to actually reduce their bills.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Ms. Cindy Forster: I’m not sure that the minister understands, because Lorna doesn’t want this pushed on to her children and her grandchildren.

It’s not just people like Lorna who are worried about retirement who I’m hearing from, and who are struggling to pay their bills. I also recently heard from a young student in my riding who suffers from a disability. She expects to graduate soon. She worries about her student loans and the interest that she’s going to have to pay when she’s finished her studies. She, too, is finding that choice: Do I put some money away for my student loan payments, or do I pay the ever-rising hydro bills?

Why is the Premier continuing to support wealthy bankers instead of the very students and people trying to retire in this province?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: I’m pleased to say that that individual student will also qualify for the 25% reduction. On top of that, by the great work by the Deputy Premier and her ministry, all students moving forward are going to get free tuition as well—and that’s fantastic. Not only are we providing free tuition, but we’re working with folks right across the province to help them reduce their bills.

Yesterday, as I mentioned, I was in Hamilton. The mayor isn’t the only Hamiltonian that is excited about our plan. At Alectra, they’re talking about how the homeowners in Hamilton will see more than 25% savings. The folks in Hamilton will see between 27% and 28% reductions because of our fair hydro plan. That’s a significant savings for families and small businesses, and that’s something I do hope that the opposition will support, because it is helping all families right across the province.

Energy policies

Mr. Lou Rinaldi: My question is to the Minister of Infrastructure.

Minister, folks in rural Ontario are industrious, hard-working people who pay their taxes, put food on their table, put their kids through school and take care of elderly relatives. Like all other Ontarians, they are looking to get ahead and want our government to make life easier and more affordable.

That is why I was excited that the minister recently announced a new natural gas grant, which will help communities like the ones in my riding switch to more cost-effective fuel sources. Spending less money on heating their homes means more money available for their kids’ education, for essential home improvements or to tuck away in an RRSP.

Speaker, through you to the minister: Could he please explain how the newly announced Natural Gas Grant Program will benefit my constituents?

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: I thank the member for the question.

At ROMA, I was proud to announce that we are investing $100 million to expand natural gas to underserved rural communities. This will go a long way toward making energy consumption more affordable for rural Ontarians, and it will leverage hundreds of millions of dollars of investment from natural gas distribution companies. Rural Ontario will have more access, affordability and choice, and greater opportunities for economic development.

Access to natural gas infrastructure in rural, remote and indigenous communities is a priority for this government. Natural gas expansion could save consumers up to $1,500 in heating costs every year.

The intake for this program will begin this spring.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Lou Rinaldi: My thanks to the minister for his response.

Minister, saving $1,500 a year would be a huge win for farmers and rural families. Providing access, affordability and choice to rural energy consumers is something our government is focusing on. It will support economic development in our rural communities, and that is something of which I’m very proud.

This grant program is fully compatible with the energy board’s decision on natural gas expansion in November and, most importantly, will provide meaningful support for our communities.

Speaker, through you to the minister: Could he please explain how this Natural Gas Grant Program compares to the plans put forward by the opposition?

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: That’s certainly an excellent question. The fact of the matter is, neither the NDP nor the Tories have ever proposed any policy to expand natural gas access in rural communities.

We are investing $100 million in this program, in direct response to feedback we received from rural stakeholders, such as the OFA and greenhouse operators. Our investment will leverage hundreds of millions of dollars in private investments.

We’re hearing absolutely nothing from the PCs on how they would expand natural gas to rural communities. The Leader of the Opposition has yet to announce a plan, or even a single idea, that would save rural energy consumers so much as one penny. If the Leader of the Opposition is serious about supporting natural gas expansion, then he should get behind our unprecedented initiative and support what we’re doing.

Skills training

Mr. Lorne Coe: My question is for the Minister of Advanced Education and Skills Development.

The Minister of Advanced Education has been in her role for nearly a year, and during that time, the highly skilled workforce expert panel report was also released.

Why is this government ignoring its own panel’s recommendations? And when will this government address the serious skills mismatch that exists in this province?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Thank you to the member opposite for the question.

The highly skilled workforce report, which was prepared by a group led by former member Sean Conway, was presented to the Premier. We are committed to actually moving on every one of the recommendations in that report.

There is a lot of work under way, a lot of discussions. In fact, just yesterday, I had a very good meeting with the Minister of Education and Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters, where we talked about how they could participate in that highly skilled workforce report, particularly around experiential education.

One of the most important recommendations, I think, in that report is that every student, by the time they graduate from high school, and again, when they graduate from university or college, has had one meaningful experiential learning opportunity. That’s a big, big shift, and we’re committed to achieving that.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Lorne Coe: Back to the Minister of Advanced Education: The Auditor General confirmed that youth unemployment right here in Ontario is hovering at 15%, well above the national average, which is clearly unacceptable.

My question is simple: Does the minister believe that her government’s record of high youth unemployment is acceptable? Yes or no?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Speaker, the answer clearly is no. That’s why we’re working very, very hard to focus our work on those groups of people who are facing exceptional challenges.

We are listening very carefully to what the Auditor General had to say about making sure that we’re actually getting results for the money that we are investing in the programs that support young people as they get into the workforce.

I do just want to remind the member opposite, though, that his party—everybody over there, in the last election—ran on the platform of firing 100,000 people. Those are the very people who support young people who are facing challenges to get through their education and into the workforce. Those cuts would have been disastrous.

We are committed to making sure that every young person in this province achieves their full potential.

Long-term care

Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: My question is to the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. Families contact my office and tell me how worried they are for their loved ones in long-term care. Over the past six months, 86-year-old James Acker has been brutally beaten and sexually assaulted in his long-term-care home. The home has been cited for not protecting residents and staff from assaults, and the same home has received a written warning for not reporting and investigating abuse.

Minister, your record on long-term care is truly disappointing. How many times does James Acker have to be assaulted before you take action?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Whether it’s resident abuse or neglect or violence against staff in a long-term-care home, it’s never acceptable. In fact, it’s never acceptable in any of our health care environments across this province.

Despite our best efforts, this violence or neglect or abuse, unfortunately and regrettably, from time to time does take place. That’s why we’ve created one of the most rigorous inspection regimes, certainly in Canada and in North America, using the best possible evidence.

I’m proud to say that for this home, as for every single home in this province—for the past two years and entering the third year now, we have inspected 100% of our homes. When we do, and we regrettably find that more work or protection needs to take place, we take it extremely seriously.

I’m happy to follow up in the supplementary.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: Minister, James Acker’s family is here today. Tammy Carbino came because you have refused to meet with her. The Canadian Association of Retired Persons also lobbied you to meet with the Acker family, and you have refused.

The Acker family knows that Ontario’s long-term-care system is so cash-strapped that resident-on-resident violence is not being fixed, and the one person who can change that is refusing to meet with them.

Minister, will you commit today to fix the problems in long-term-care homes, and to meet face to face with the Acker family?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: As I said, this is an incredibly serious issue that the member opposite has raised. It’s regrettable that we should have to have this discussion at all, but it’s a reality that we’re facing. That’s why we’re taking a number of measures.

In fact, we’ve already spoken to, and I look forward to introducing shortly in the Legislature, additional measures that we believe are important to take, not only to reduce and eventually eliminate such violence, whether it be resident-on-resident or whether it be resident-to-staff, but to ensure that those long-term-care homes that need to do more are not only complying with the act, but that we have the tools in place to ensure that that compliance does indeed happen and take place. We take this issue absolutely seriously, and of course, if the family is here—I’m not sure if they’re in the gallery.

I do see that they are here. I would be happy to have some words with them and speak to them after question period.

Air-rail link

Mrs. Cristina Martins: My question is for the Minister of Transportation. When our government announced that we were moving forward with the Union Pearson Express, a dedicated air-rail link between the downtown core and Pearson International Airport, it was clear that this was exactly the type of investment that Toronto needed, both for the city’s economy and for the environment.

After going into service, it was very clear that riders loved the UP Express, but it was also clear that the initial ridership levels weren’t meeting our expectations. I know that our government was very clear that something needed to change, and that is why we took action to reduce the fares, an action that many of my constituents in Davenport had called for. I have heard that this course of action has had a huge impact on the uptake of the service.

Can the minister please provide an update on the current status of the Union Pearson Express ridership?

Hon. Steven Del Duca: I want to begin by thanking the member from Davenport not only for the question, but on this particular issue and so many that affect the west end of the GTHA, for her advocacy and for being such a strong champion. She is absolutely correct, Speaker.

She is correct that after its launch, the UP Express ranked very high on customer satisfaction but not high enough on ridership. Today, we are celebrating a very important milestone. One year ago today, our lower fares for the Union Pearson Express came into effect. After lowering the fares, we quickly started to see the ridership grow. I am very pleased to say today that the UP Express ridership has quadrupled, with daily ridership now averaging upwards of 9,000 riders per day.

That’s great news for people visiting our city, our region and our province. It’s also great news for commuters in the west end of the GTHA, including those who live in the wonderful riding of Davenport.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mrs. Cristina Martins: Thank you to the minister for his answer. I couldn’t agree more: Davenport is a wonderful riding.

While certain members of this House jump at the opportunities to criticize our government’s investment, it is very clear that it’s paying off. Those ridership numbers show a huge increase from what we saw previously, and I have no doubt that they will continue to grow. I know that some days it’s been standing room only on the UP Express. I know that since the fares have been reduced, I’ve heard from many in my community that the UP Express is now a real, affordable option for them. Some members in my community who work at the airport use it daily, while so many others now use it as a way to move between the downtown core and Davenport. This shows the versatility of the service.

Mr. Speaker, will the minister please provide an update on who actually is using the UP Express? Specifically, how many riders are non-airport commuters like the people I have heard from in my community?

Hon. Steven Del Duca: Speaker, I thank the member from Davenport for the follow-up question. She is 100% right.

One thing I didn’t mention in my initial answer: In 2016, the Union Pearson Express moved over 2.3 million people between the airport and the city of Toronto, downtown Toronto. Also, interestingly for us to note, one year after lowering those fares, one in every four passengers, roughly 25%, on the UP Express is a regular commuter, taking advantage of the fact that Union Pearson Express fares match existing GO fares on that same corridor.

I couldn’t help but notice, when the member from Davenport was asking her follow-up question, members of the NDP caucus were making a lot of noise. I don’t know why members in that caucus wouldn’t be supportive of more affordable fares, more options for commuters in the west end of Toronto, better transit service—except to say, as is typical for members of that party, they don’t have a plan. They don’t have a path forward. We do. We’re proud of it. We’re going to keep building, Speaker.

Services for the developmentally disabled

Mr. Bill Walker: My question is to the Minister of Community and Social Services. Judson Harnack’s 18th birthday was on January 9, but there was no celebration. You see, Judson is severely disabled. He developed a brain tumour at three, suffered a massive stroke at four, and is at the level of a four-year-old, and that will never change.

Sadly, this fact didn’t stop the Ministry of Community and Social Services from cutting his supports in half, to $860 from $1,900 a month, on his 18th birthday. They also put him on the Passport wait-list, which we all know is a deeply flawed, messy and long wait.

On behalf of Judson and his family, I ask: Will the minister admit that the progress promised on the Passport funding wait-list has been a complete mess and a sham?

Hon. Helena Jaczek: Thank you very much for the question from the member opposite. I’m obviously not able to comment on this specific case, but certainly my ministry and our government does understand the difficulties that families can face, in some cases, where there are very challenging issues related to medical complications for those with developmental disabilities; those, perhaps, with some behavioural issues. These are very difficult and challenging situations for families and for caregivers and so on.

In terms of our Passport waiting list, we are actually ahead of

schedule in eliminating wait-lists. We have some 20,000 people now on Passport. There is much more to do, of course; we acknowledge that, but this is a program that is really transforming individual situations.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Bill Walker: Back to the minister: Minister, we have no idea what you’ve done. You talk about the wait-list action; it’s a 2014 wait-list that you’re proud to have actually caught up on. This is 2017. At the end of the day, people don’t expect a three-year wait-list. They want action and Passport funding when they need it.

What they want, Minister, is leadership. They want to know that when the programs are there—you’re not transforming Judson’s life. You’re making a mess of Judson’s life, and he and his family are struggling because of it. The fact is, Minister, you’ve been in charge for three years and the flaws in the system keep getting deeper.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): To the Chair, please.

Mr. Bill Walker: I want to know—through you, Mr. Speaker, to the minister—how much longer do Judson and other families just like his, in crisis, have to wait to get real leadership, real programs and real services?

Hon. Helena Jaczek: The reality is that we spend $2 billion every year supporting individuals with developmental disabilities. Three years ago, we initiated an absolutely unprecedented investment in this sector: $810 million over three years. As we all recall, that party opposite voted against that particular initiative.

Looking at their platforms back in 2014, neither of the opposition parties had anything to say about these most vulnerable Ontarians. Our government is standing up for them, and we are doing everything we possibly can to help situations exactly as the member has described.

Mining industry

Mr. Michael Mantha: My question is to the Premier. This week, I attended the annual PDAC conference, where I had the chance to talk to many stakeholders from the mining sector.

This is what I heard, Premier: Despite 70,000 current jobs depending on the industry, we’re way down on the list when it comes to investment attractiveness and policy effectiveness—only sixth in Canada when we should be first. Investors have no confidence in this government’s policies.

This Liberal government keeps saying that it planned to spend $1 billion in the last budget to develop infrastructure in the Ring of Fire. But besides lawyers, bureaucrats and accountants on Bay Street, where is the progress on the Ring of Fire?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Northern Development and Mines.

Hon. Bill Mauro: The member, in one question, talked about two different topics. One moment he’s talking about the Ring of Fire, and in the first instance he’s talking about investment in Ontario in the mineral development sector. Let’s deal with the first half of it first.

Fundamentally, Speaker, the member is wrong. The increase in the exploration sector in the province of Ontario is going north. It is getting larger than it has been in the past. So I’m not sure who the member was talking to at PDAC, but I think that for those of us who attended that conference, on this side of the House, we are hearing a very different story. The industry is optimistic. They feel very excited about the way things are going in the province of Ontario right now.

Actually, the raw numbers, when you look at exploration dollars being invested in the province of Ontario—the projection this year and the increase last year—speak very positively about what’s going on in the province when it comes to the mineral development sector. We’re very proud of that.

On the second half of his question, I’m happy to talk about that in the supplementary.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Michael Mantha: Once again, to the Premier: First Nations communities, miners, prospectors and other people from the industry are frustrated with the lack of leadership from this government. This Liberal government has had a copy-and-paste approach to infrastructure plans in the last three Liberal budgets, without actually developing even a trail—even a trail—to the Ring of Fire.

First Nations are asking, as well as industry and many across northern Ontario, what has this government done and where have you been? The people of Ontario deserve better. First Nations are asking for action. When will you start delivering results and ignite the Ring of Fire?

Hon. Bill Mauro: Speaker, I think that if you talk to the nine Matawa First Nation member communities, they will tell you very clearly what we’ve done and where we’ve been.

Again, this is no different than the question that was asked by the PCs a little while ago where they wanted to frame the mining sector in Ontario in the context of only one project. Of course, that is their goal, to make it look like things are not going well.

As I said to the member from the official opposition, there are currently three mines under construction in the province of Ontario. Exploration dollars are increasing from where they were in the past, and of course when they’re not, this is relative to global demand and global price. If the price is down, obviously exploration is not going to occur if they can’t make money at it.

There are three mines under construction right now. The mining sector is doing well. We support it. The NIER Program, the Northern Industrial Electricity Rate Program, is a big part of that. Currently 10 mines benefit from that. It’s a competitive sector and—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

The member from Nickel Belt on a point of order.

M me France Gélinas: J’aimerais dire aux membres du Parlement jeunesse francophone que la période des questions n’est pas un modèle à imiter quand vous retournez à l’école. Souvenez-vous-en.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member does know better that that’s not a point of order and should not have been made.

Notice of dissatisfaction

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Pursuant to standing order 38(a), the member for Whitby–Oshawa has given notice of dissatisfaction with his question given by the minister responsible for advanced education and skills development concerning skills mismatch. This matter will be debated on Tuesday, March 21, 2017.

Legislative pages

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Before we move to deferred votes, I want to tell the members that this is the last day for our pages. We want to thank them very much for the wonderful service that they have given to us. Good luck.

Applause.

Deferred Votes

Medical Assistance in Dying Statute Law Amendment Act, 2017 / Loi de 2017 modifiant des lois en ce qui concerne l’aide médicale à mourir

Deferred vote on the motion that the question be now put on the motion for second reading of the following bill:

Bill 84,

An Act to amend various Acts with respect to medical assistance in dying / Projet de loi 84, Loi modifiant diverses lois en ce qui concerne l’aide médicale à mourir.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): We have a deferred vote on the motion for closure on the motion for second reading of Bill 84.

Call in the members. This will be a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1142 to 1147.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): On February 21, 2017, Mr. Murray moved second reading of Bill 84,

An Act to amend various Acts with respect to medical assistance in dying.

Mr. Bradley has moved that the question be now put.

All those in favour of Mr. Bradley’s motion, please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Ayes

Anderson, Granville

Baker, Yvan

Ballard, Chris

Berardinetti, Lorenzo

Bradley, James J.

Chan, Michael

Chiarelli, Bob

Colle, Mike

Coteau, Michael

Crack, Grant

Damerla, Dipika

Del Duca, Steven

Delaney, Bob

Des Rosiers, Nathalie

Dhillon, Vic

Dong, Han

Duguid, Brad

Flynn, Kevin Daniel

Fraser, John

Hoggarth, Ann

Hoskins, Eric

Hunter, Mitzie

Jaczek, Helena

Kiwala, Sophie

Kwinter, Monte

Leal, Jeff

MacCharles, Tracy

Malhi, Harinder

Mangat, Amrit

Martins, Cristina

Matthews, Deborah

Mauro, Bill

McGarry, Kathryn

McMahon, Eleanor

Milczyn, Peter Z.

Moridi, Reza

Murray, Glen R.

Naidoo-Harris, Indira

Naqvi, Yasir

Potts, Arthur

Qaadri, Shafiq

Rinaldi, Lou

Sandals, Liz

Sousa, Charles

Takhar, Harinder S.

Thibeault, Glenn

Vernile, Daiene

Wong, Soo

Wynne, Kathleen O.

Zimmer, David

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): All those opposed, please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Nays

Armstrong, Teresa J.

Bailey, Robert

Bisson, Gilles

Campbell, Sarah

Cho, Raymond Sung Joon

Clark, Steve

Coe, Lorne

Fedeli, Victor

Forster, Cindy

French, Jennifer K.

Gates, Wayne

Gélinas, France

Gretzky, Lisa

Hardeman, Ernie

Hatfield, Percy

Jones, Sylvia

MacLeod, Lisa

Mantha, Michael

Martow, Gila

McDonell, Jim

Miller, Norm

Miller, Paul

Nicholls, Rick

Pettapiece, Randy

Scott, Laurie

Singh, Jagmeet

Smith, Todd

Tabuns, Peter

Taylor, Monique

Thompson, Lisa M.

Vanthof, John

Walker, Bill

Wilson, Jim

The Clerk of the Assembly (Mr. Todd Decker): The ayes are 50; the nays are 33.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I declare the motion carried.

Mr. Murray has moved second reading of Bill 84,

An Act to amend various Acts with respect to medical assistance in dying. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? I heard a no.

All those in favour, please say “aye.”

Opposed, please say “nay.”

Carried.

Second reading agreed to.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Minister?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I’d ask that the bill be referred to the Standing Committee on Finance and Econo