VOL. 2 PRELHUNARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD 3:00 P.M. - 6:00 P.M. THURSDAY, APRIL 28, 1983 NO. 29

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1495 JV - 1 The House met at 3:00 P.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair Mr. SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please! MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure, acting on behalf of my colleague, the han. Haig Young, Minister of Public Works and Services, to announce, at this time, the tender award for construction of the shell of the new Confederation Complex Extension. The contract, valued at $20,767,300 has been awarded to the local general contracting firm of Seaboard Construction

(1978) Limited. The award of the tender was made in accordance with the Public Tender Act and Government's Provincial Preference Policy. As far as is reasonably possible, all the materials and equipment used in the construction of the building will originate in Newfoundland and Labrador, and where essential materials and equipment cannot be of local origin, preference will be given to those which are fabricated in the Province. Thus, the load-bearing structure of the building is to be of reinforced concrete because it is of completely local origin.

The successful contractor will be using Newfoundland sub-contractors wherever possible under the Provincial Preference Policy. Mr. Speaker, right now it might be wise for han. members to know that we spend about 3240

April 28, 1983 Tape No . 14 95 JV - 2 MR. DINN: $3.5 million in the City of St. John's for rental accomodations and, of course, this would escalate over the years and so this particular project is very cost efficient . Also having the Confederation Complex here at the one site would make it more convenient obviously for the public when they come in to the City to get to the different departments and more convenient also for the efficient operation of government. The work will consist of the shell of the building structure, including mechanical and electrical 3241

April 28, 1983 Tape 1496 EC - 1 MR. DINN: services suitable for completion of the open space. Tenders for the site work and fitting up of the open space will be called at the appropriate future time. The accepted tender was within the Department of Public I Works and Services estimate for the work. The total additional cost to government for accepting a tender in accordance with the provincial preference policy amounts to not more than 3.2 per cent of the lowest tender.

The building comprises some 35,000 square metres in gross area or 375,000 square feet and will rise some six storeys above ground level at the lowest point. Four hundred man years of tradesman employment are expected to be generated by the work and this contract should be fully completed in twenty-four months. Mr. Speaker, this is part of this government's policy at this crucial slow period in our economy to generate much needed .employrnent, especially in the construction trades. When the complex is fully occupied, it is expected to house over 3,000 civil servants and other government personnel. Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The han. the member for the Strait of Belle Isle. MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, if I may make a brief response in accordance with the rules on behalf of those of us on this side of the House, let me say first of all without debating the matter, that we on 3242

April 28, 1983 Tape 1496 EC - 2 MR. ROBERTS: this side are far from convinced of the desirability or the utility, much less the need of building this expensive building in a day and age when we cannot afford to operate and to staff the buildings we now have . The fact remains that this particular extension is unnecessary and will cost the people of Newfoundland infinitely more than the alternatives that were available · to the government . t-1R. SIMMS: Secondly, Mr . Speaker, - That is not true . 32 43

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1497 HJ ~ 1 MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, it is true. I will deal with that in debate I am not allowed to debate here so I will not nor are my hon. friends and they should not either, Mr. Speaker. Secondly, when you read between the lines of the minister's statement what he is saying is that this contract has not been given to the lowest tenderer in fact there were three tenderers lower than the one that was awarded and in fact it is going to cost I am told - and the minister confirms this -between $600,000 and $650,000 to implement this decision.

I simply say to the minister at this stage - the Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr. Dinn) who made it on behalf of his absent colleague the Minister of Public {'larks (Mr. Young)-that the government owes the House an explanation in detail, at the very least they should table the details of the bids and of the analysis because of course the labour content is the same, Mr. Speaker, no matter who does it.

The 400 man years of tradesmen employment will be performed entirely I would hope by Newfoundlanders no matter whether the contractor is a Newfoundland contractor or whether the contractor is a mainland contractor, the taxes are the same, the benefits to the Province are the same and so I simply say to the government at this stage lal that it is a fact that this is the fourth lowest bid not the lowest or even the second lowest and secondly there is a burden on this administration to demonstrate, a burden which they must discharge to demonstrate to the people of this Province that in accepting the fourth lowest tender they have acted wisely and properly.

As for the Public Tender Act it is toothless, it is at best an expression of intent and I notice the government have legislation on it to gut it. But the President of the Council (l1r. Marshall) the half Minister of Energy or the Minister of half Energy as the case may be 1 knows far better than I do from an instance which he saw last 3244 .. '

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1497 MJ - 2 MR. ROBERTS: Summer how very toothless the Public Tender Act is . Andhere is another example of it, it is a statement of pious platitude and when it comes to the crunch the government have not followed it, so let them now discharge the burden of showing they have acted wisely. We are not saying that they have acted improperly what we are saying is that the question is there, it is a legitimate question and it must be answered, Mr . Speaker. 32 45

April 28, 1983 Tape 1498 PK - 1 ORAL QUESTIONS MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The han. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Justice (Mr. Ottenheimer). Does the Minister of Justice not think that the members of this House are er.titled to an explantion as to why plainclothes police were mingling with the teachers and parents and visitors to the galleries yesterday? Does not the han. gentleman think the members of the House are entitled to know why they were there, why they were acting in the carrying out of their duties within the precincts of this House?

MR. SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Justice. MR. OTTENHEIMER: l1r, Speaker, there is no problem with that at all. As a matter of fact,I think the simplest way of answering the han. gentleman's questionis to read to him a quite brief letter which I have written and delivered .· to the Speaker that explains it. Dated today, 'Dear Mr. Speaker, Yesterday afternoon,acting on information they received that there might be a breach of the peace somewhere in the environs of the Confederation Building, two plain- clothesmen of the Constabulary were on the Confederation Building premises.

In the performance of their duties they checked various parts of the premises and surroundings, and were also present for a while in the House of Assembly visitors' galleries. 'The appropriate procedure before the police entered the House of Assembly galleries is to receive the concurrence of the Speaker. The police officers in question were unaware of this. The police force has now been told what the appropriate procedure is, that is, that they seek the concurrence of the Speaker 3246

April 28, 1983 Tape 1498 PK - 2 MR. OTTENHEIMER: before entering the precincts of the House, and I have no doubt that that procedure will be followed.' MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Opposition. MR. NEARY: The hon. Leader of the Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the reading of the letter that the hon. gentleman just read for us in this House, but the fact of the matter is that the privileges of this House have been breached , Mr. Speaker, and I am going to ask the Government House Leader (Mr. Marshall) what he intends to do about it. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Mr.

Speaker, if the hon. gentleman thought the privileges of the House have been breached, there is an obvious proceeding the hon. gentleman could take. I think the Minister of Justice (Mr. Ottenheimer) gave a good and sufficient answer to the hon. gentleman. I suggest the hon. gentlemen use the Question Period for what it is intended 1to get along now with other questions affecting the importance of the business of the Province. MR. SPEAKER: of Belle Isle. M..'R..

ROBERTS: The hon. member for the Strait Mr. s~eaker, given the pettifoggery of the President of the Council, I will address a question to the Minister of Justice,who is obviously prepared to deal with matters on their merits. Would the Minister of Justice 3247

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1499 SD ""' 1 MR. ROBERTS: ask the Chie:( of Police :i:.f he is prepared to apologize to the House for wh.at was, I accept, an unwitting breach of our privileges? :Sut the fact remains, Mr. Speaker, it is, as the minister will concur, a breach of the privileges of this House for any policeman to come within our precincts without first checking with Your Honour 1 unless there is some open and obvious breach of the law. Because men and women come to these galleries, Mr. Speaker, it is not an open breach of the law, in fact it is a discharge of theix rights under the law.

Would the Minister o:e J'ust . .t.ce. (Mr. Ottenheimerl consider asking the Chie:( o:( ;I,>oli.ce for an apology simply because his force did breach our privileges even though I accept, as do Il)y colle.agues, they did it unwittingly? As for the gentleman £rom, St. John's East (Mr. Marshall) , I would simply s·ay to him that if he had been listening late yesterday afternoon my friend did raise it in the House, not as a matter of privilege but as a matter of concern. Obviously the House Leader (Mr. Ma.rshallL is not the least bit concerned 1 but that is obvious from his conduct on this and other matters. MR.

SPEAKER (Rus·sell): The han. Minister of Jus.ti:ce., MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr, Speaker, I am n,ot obviously debate with the hon. gentleman whether i.t was. a breach. of privilege or not. r know that the hon. gentleman is· aware that there would have to be a finding to that ef:(ect. I. mean, it could be. a breach of privilege MR. ROBERTS: MR. OTTENHEI.MER: Do you want a motion on i:,t? - it could not be a breach of privilege. What the hen. gentleman asked, i:( I. would ask the Chie£ of Police to apologize to the Speaker, actually I. think that what th.e han .. gentlell)an requires 3248

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1499 SD-2 MR. OTTENHEIMER: there has been performed in speaking with the Speaker. MR. ROBERTS: The Speaker has not told the House anything about it. MR. OTTENHEIMER: The Speaker may confirm it. I have read theletterwhich I gave to the Speaker and I also informed the Speaker on behalf of the police force, which answers to this ministry, of their regret and apology. I expressed it on behalf of the force. I think that suffices. MR. NEARY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (RUSSELL): Supplementary, the hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, I hope that Your Honour will clear up this matter in due course. MR. ROBERTS: action. MR. NEARY: His Honour could take That is right. We do have a Committee on Election and Privileges and maybe the matter, if it is not cleared up by Your Honour, should be referred to that committee. I would like to come back now to probably the worse crisis we have ever had in our whole history in connection with the dispute between the teachers and the administration.

The Premier made a statement yesterday to a group of ladies, parents and children who were visiting from Valleyfield and Badger's Quay to the effect that some kind of extraordinary action, something dramatic was going to happen in the next twenty-four hours. The twenty-four hours will be up in another few minutes, Mr. Speaker. Could the hon. gentleman tell us what dramatic action he is going to take in connection with the dispute with the teahcers? 3249

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1500 NM 1 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, as I understand it, a CBC reporter interpreted remarks made by certain people who were in to see me yesterday that I said that there would be some kind of a development within twenty~ four hours. I did not say that. That is what the CBC reporter said the women said I said. What I did say, if the Leader of the Opposition (_Mr. Neary) is interested, is that- MR. NEARY: I am rather amused. PREMIER PECKFORD: Yes.

Well, I quess the Leader of the Opposition deals with the media and I deal with the media and we know how things can get said.

What I did say to the ladies.in the conversation we had covering twenty or thirty minutes was they said, "Well, what can we do?" And my answer was that I guess as parents you can continue to express your concern in the way you are doing now, and also to the leadership of the Newfoundland Teachers' Association, and if there were sufficient amount of pressure put on by the Parent/Teachers Associations,and other interested groups around the Province, that I was hopeful that within a twenty-four to forty~£ght hour period that that kind of pressure would result in there being new developments in the dispute.

That is what I said. MR. NEARY: A supplementary. MR. SPEAKER: The han. Leader of the OppositLon. MR. NEARY: Well,now would the han. gentleman tell the House if indeed there has been any new developments in the last twenty-four hours, if the administration, of which he is the head, has taken any new initiatives to return to the bargaining table to sit down and talk and negotiate a settlement with the teachers and get them back into the classroom and 3250

Apri.l 28, 1983 Tape No. 1500 NM - 2 MR . NEARY: get the children back to school? Have there been any ne\v initiatives? MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Tjle ho.n,. the Premier. PREMTER PECKFORD: No\o~ I have been accused, in this bon . House and outside, by quite a few different groups or people or whatever, individuals, that the Newfoundland Teachers' Association and government are negotiating in public and making statements and all the rest of it r So I think it would be 3251

April 28,1983 Tape No. 1501 ah-1 MR. NEARY: extremely wise 1even though the Leader of the Opposition has asked the question which I guess he feels he has an obligation to ask,even though if I answered it in its totality then he or somebody else could accuse of negotiating in public, so all I can say to the hon.member,as he undoubtedly is aware, that the government is making every effort today, last night,this morning, yesterday evening, yesterday afternoon, yesterday morning, to bring an end to this dispute.

So I would say no more than that,but obviously there is not a lull in activity, there is activity, I will leave it at that for the hon. member right now because I do not want to get into discriptions and so on which in one way or another might lend an air of pessimism or lend an air of optimism on the situation. But obviously I am and the government is very concerned about the situation. We have been meeting on it almost daily, and in between that myself hourly 1 and obviously there is activity and I should leave it at that for the time being.

And,of course, we are as eager to get the thing over with as anybody else. MR.NEARY: MR.SPEAKER (Russell): MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. The hon. Leader of the Opposition. A supplementary, Mr.Speaker. We are glad to hear that there is some kind of movement taking place to break this logjam. We are not asking the han. the Premier to give us any details of any negotiations or any mediations or discussions that may be taking place. All we are asking the hon. gentleman is to tell the House that something is happening.

And I just want to make sure that I understand the hon. gentleman correctly, that something is happening that may lead to a settlement of that dispute. Now the something could be negotiations, it could be mediation, it could be arbitration or it could be legislation. Could the 3252

April 28,1983 Tape No . 1501 ah-2 MR.NEARY: hon. gentleman indicate to the House in \'/hat area the movement is taking place? I have given him four options . We do not want the details, Mr.Speaker . All ,.,e want the hon . gentleman to do, and he will not be accused of negotiating in public or negotiating across the Bouse,is say in what area is he moving? Is he moving in the area of legislation, arbitration, negotiations or mediation? That is four options. MR. MORGAN: You are only playing to the galleries. 32 53

April 28, 1983 Tape 1502 EC - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, as I said, if I wanted to say more I would have said it in the answer to the original question and I have no more comment to make on it at this time. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: Opposition. MR. NEARY: Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker. The hon. the Leader of the Mr. Speaker, with regard to the negotiations themselves, the Premier,in the last seventy-two hours or so, accused the NTA of bringing new issues to the bargaining table.

Could the hon. gentleman indicate to the House what these new issues were? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: I could very well to the hon. gentleman privately if he wants me to do so, but I do not want to be provocative now. I have answered the question as best I could. I made the statement, I stand by the statement, I can prove the statement. Honestly, squarely, I can prove the statement.

If the hon. the Leader of the Opposition would like for me to give him that information after Question Period, I will be only too happy to do so.But I am not going to entertain or get involved in the dispute at this point in time by doing any of that kind of thing for obvious reasons , which the hon. Leader knows about. But if he personally wants substantiation of the statement that I made, I am only too pleased to give it to him. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. 3254

April 28, 1983 Tape 1502 EC - 2 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, we are having a change of strategy now today. The han. gentleman is not going to give us any information at all. Even though the han. gentleman has made the information public, he is not prepared now to give us the answer across the floor of the House. Could I be a little more specific with the han. gentleman and ask him if one of the new issues that he is accusing the NTA of introducing into the negoti­ ations has to do with pensions? Is that one of the issues? MR. MARSHALL: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please!

The han. the President of the Council on a point of order. MR. MARSHALL: The han. gentleman knows no limits so we have to impose them on him by the parliamentary rules, Mr. Speaker. Beauchesne, Fifth Edition, page 129, dealing with Questions,says it is not in order to "repeat in substance a question already answered, or to which an answer has been refused." Now, I think the nature of the question the han. the Leader of the Opposition (Mr.

Neary) asked has already been posed to the Premier in two or three previous questions and the Premier has dealt with it, and I think that this is an appropriate time in which to invoke this particular rule. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: To that point of order, The han. the Leader of the Opposition to that point of order. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the han. gentleman obviously is trying to stop the Opposition from asking very penetrating and very important questions. My supple­ mentary had nothing to do with the first question. 3255

-· April 28 , 1983 Tape 1502 EC - 3 1-IR, NEARY : Mr. Speaker, all the hon . gentleman is trying to do is to muzzle this side of the House, as he tries every day . Mr . Speaker, I would submit that there is no point of order . All the hon . gentleman is trying to do is dictate to th.e Chair . MR. MARSHALL: Mr . Speaker , 3256

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1503 r1J -1 MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. the President of the Council1 to that point of order. MR. ~~RSHALL: If the hon. gentleman wants to respond, let him respond not in personal rhetorical attacks but why not let him respond using the established rules that are before us. It is here. Beauchesne, for the information of the hon. gentleman there opposite,is a little red book that everybody knows guides the proceedings of this House, MR. OTTEHEIMER: We got a green one. MR.

MARSHALL: Well, it is green for the Opposition and maybe the Minister of Justice (Mr, Ottenheimer),but it is a red book. MR. NEARY: MR. MARSHALL: It says on page 129 clearlv - He is using up our time, Mr. Speaker. The hon. gentleman is going to try to interrupt but this is a serious point of order. -"repeat in substance a question already answered, or to which an answer has been refused." MR. NEARY: Sit down, boy, and do not be making a fool of yourself. MR. MARSHALL: Now, Mr. Speaker, in this House of Assembly the government at all times does not invoke these rules as a matter of course.

There are times and places where they apply and1I would submit to Your Honour1at this point in time it does apply and· it should be enforced. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The reference referred to by the hon. the President of the Council is contained in Beauchesne, 357 (dJ which :says, "A question oral or written must not: repeat in substance a question already answered, or to which an answer has been refused." It is the Chair's understanding that the hon. the Leader of the Opposition 3257

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1503 MJ - 2 MR. SPEAKER (Russell): (Mr. Neary) posed a question to the hon. the Premier,who declined to give an answer for reasons which he has stated 1and in essence the hon. the Leader of the Opposition,or any other hon. member,should not repeat the same question. MR. NEARY: Thank you, M~. Speaker. I was not repeating the same question, this is a completely new question 1and the question has to do with teahcers' nensions.

Could the hon. the Premier- or perhaps the President of Treasury Board may be in a better position tti supply the answer - tell us if this current dispute will affect the pensions of teachers in any way, shape or form who may be retiring before the end of this calendar year? MR. ~-ill.RSHALL : PREMIER PECKFORD: MR. SPEAKER: PREMIER PECKFORD: It is the same thing, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker. The hon. the Premier. As I have indicated before on behalf of government, we are not prepared to get into the details of the dispute at this point in time for obvious reasons. MR. HISCOCK: Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER: The han. the member for Eagle River. MR. HISCOCK: My question is to the Premier and also in regard to :the teachers' lockout. And the question~ The Premier requested the NTA, meddling into their union affairs, to conduct a new vote on the Premier's new proposal. If the NTA met the request for a vote of their members and ended up having it rejected by the members,what would the Prem~er request then? PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier, PREMIER PECKFORD: I am not going to negotiate ~n publ~c, Mr. Speaker, 3258

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1503 MJ ... 3 MR. HISCOCK: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Jiussell'): The hon. the me-mbe:r;:: for Ea,.gJ,e R;Lv-er. MR. HISCOCK: I have anothPr guestion to the Premier. Concerning that Ding-.a-Ling Service, are all the operators of th~s service certified tea.chers? Do they all have their teaching certificates? PREMlER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: I understand that they are a:J.l quaLi,fied people in the subject areas to which they 3259

"' ,.. April 28, 1983 Tape 1504 PK - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: have been assigned to answer questions from the students who call in. They are all qualified and have degrees in the various subject areas. The service is working very well 1 as a matter of fact, extremely well. And we are going to have to look at how the teachers of the Province and so on, and the educational system in the future can utilize not only this kind of a process, but how we can imp+ove upon it and mal~e it even better. So it has been ~·•orking very well. MR. NEARY: Will you take out whatever you have in your mouth.

I hope it is sticky enough so you cannot move it. BREMIER PECKFORD: I have a cold and I have something in my mouth here for it. MR. NEARY: Get somebody to rub your chest. PREMIER PECKFORD: I invite the han. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) 1if he is concerned about my health - MR. NEARY: I have a cold (inaudible). PREMIER PECKFORD: - he can assist. I do not know if the han. Leader of the Opposition has a medical degree or has some particular expertise in that way.

But that system is really .. working well• From an educational point of view it might have some application after this dispute is over and can be of great assistance to teachers and students and so on. But they are all qualified individuals in their subject areas. So,as I said, they are answering questions in that area for which they are qualified. MR. NEARY: PREMIER PECKFORD: AN HON . MEMBER: 3260 (Inaudible) qualified in her area. Yes, that is right. (Inaudible} degree in biology.

April 28, 1983 Tape 1504 PK - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: The person to whom the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) is referring, I think has a Bachelor of Science, Bachelor of Education, Bachelor of Nursing, so I would imagine that the person is fairly qualified in the field of biology. -· - - MR. OTTENHEIMER: Leader of the Opposition. PREMIER PECKFORD: as the Leader of the Opposition. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Almost as qualified as the Yes, almost as qualified Order, please! Before I recognize the hon. member for Eagle River (Mr.

Hiscock), it has been brought to my attention that there may have . been somebody in t~:e galleries who has taken a picture. I would like to remind visitors that the use of cameras is strictly forbidden in the galleries. MR. SPEAKER: The han. member for Eagle River. MR. HISCOCK: I have a question for the Minister of Justice (Mr. Ottenheimer), It is my understanding with regards to the rules of this House that in order for money to be paid out to teachers or to anybody else they have to be certified, and therefore a teacher's certificate is needed in ·order to receive money and you have to have so many courses.

I believe there are people operating under this service who do not ha~e a certificate and I am wondering is it legal to use taxpayers' money to pay them. Are we not breaching the rules of this House by paying out money to people who do not have proper qualifications? 3261

April 28, 1983 Tape 1504 PK - 3 MR. SPEAKER (Russell).: MR. OTTENHEIMER : The hon. Minister of Justice . Mr . Speaker, first of all, it would have nothing to do 'vi th the rules of the House. There is absolutely nothing illegal \vhatsoever in the procedure being used by the Department of Education.and by the Department of Finance,presumably,to pay for the Dial-a-Tutor service and the hiring of qualifed people performing the tasks which are assigned them 1 nothing illegal whatsoever· 326 2

April 28, 1983 MR. HISCOCK: to the Minister of Justice. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : MR. HISCOCK: Tape No. 1505 NM- 1 A further supplementary The hen. member for Eagle River. Has the Minister of JustLce contacted the Auditor General to see if this is a matter of legalities? PREMIER PECKFORD: MR. SPEAKER: MR. OTTENHEIMER: Legalities? The hen. Minister of Justice. Mr. Speaker, the hen. gentleman really does not know what the Auditor General is supposed to do or the rules of the House. He has everything all confused. Why would I consult the Auditor General to determine whether something is legal or illegal.

That is what we are paying good money to people in the Department of Justice for. The Auditor c~neral deals with auditing of the Province's accounts- MR. HISCOCK: And money is being spent• MR. OTTENHEIMER: - and he reports to the House of Assembly. He does not report to the Minister of Justice, he does not report to the hen. member for Eagle River (Mr. Hiscock), he reports to the entire House of Assembly. This has nothing to do with contacting the Auditor General to see if this is legal or if that is legal or if something else is legal. It would be quite improper to contact the Auditor General.

He is a servant of the House and he makes his annual report to the House of Assembly. This matter has nothing to do with the Auditor General or roy getting in touch with the Auditor General at all . . MR. 'SPEAKER: The hon. Leader of the Opposi.tion. 3263

~ April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1505 NM- 2 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I want to come back to something the Premier said there a short while ago about there being movement, that the ice seems to be slackening up a little bit ," Now he has clammed up, Mr. Speaker, the pendulum now has swung completely the other way. He goes from one extreme to the other, the han. gentleman does. Now would he tell the House what period of time are we talking about?

When can we expect to get an answer from the han. gentleman as to when negotiations will resume, mediation wili take place, arbitration will be implemented, or legislation will be brought into the House? What period of time are we talking about? Are we talking about by noon tomorrow, by noon on Saturday, or are ~e talking about the weekend? Is there a possibility of the teachers and the children being back in the school by Monday? MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The han. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speake~, first of all I used the word 'activity'. I did not use the word 'movement'.

I never used the phrase 'loosening of the ice'. So for the benefit ~ of the press gallery, who I am sure heard what I said, I said'activity.' sa the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) should not try to describe what I said earlier in other terms which would tend to lead to a certain description being put on what I said. I said'activity_'And I am not a prophet. I cannot tell the Leader of the Opposition because I do not know what timeframe. I honestly do not know. I told the Leader of the Opposition 3264

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1506 ah-1 PREMIER PECKFORD: that there is activity. That is all I have said and that is all I am prepared to say at this point in time. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Russell): MR. NEARY: A supplementary. The Leader of the Opposition. Mr. Speaker" would the hon. the Premier, in view of the fact that there is activity - I put my own

interpretation on what the hon. gentleman said because the hon. gentleman is leaving the impression, rightly or wrongly, even by mentioning the word 'activity' that there is some movement or something happening - now while that something is happening, would the hon. gentleman give an assurance to this House that he will call off the troops, that he will call off his campaign workers and stop the dirty tricks that are being used, Mr. Speaker, by the administration to try to turn this into a political - MR. MORGAN: You would do anything to get a vote. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR.

NEARY: Did the hon. gentleman receive his letter yet? The hon. gentleman is going to get a nice little letter from the parents and from the teachers about his behaviour in this House. Mr. Speaker, stop the dirty tricks, for instance, telling campaign workers to call into the open line shows and say they are teachers. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. MARSHALL: On a point of order. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, the point of order must be patently obvious. The hon. gentleman is making a speech to the galleries. Standing Order 31 (c) 3265

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1506 ah-2 MR. MARSHALL: "In putting any oral questions, no argument or opinion is to be offered nor any facts stated except so far as it may be necessary to explain the same." The han. gentleman is out of order for a whole host of reasons listed in Paragraph 357 of the book that the hon. gentleman seems not to be aware of and to ignore as well the principles of it. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please! The hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) was straying into the realm of debate and if he persists in that I will have to rule him out of . order. MR.

NEARY: I apologize to the Chair, Your Honour. Let me ask the Premier if he is aware that his campaign workers in the last election have been told, given instructions, to call into the open line programme and say they are teachers? Would he not consider that to be in the realm of dirty tricks? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, that question does not deserve an answer. I mean, I have answered that to the public. I was asked it last night. I am completely unaware, I know nothing about it.

In the same way yesterday I was asked about there being some security people here in the precincts of the House. I absolutely know nothing about it, nothing, zero, about it, and to imply somehow or another that I or the government is .involved in dirty tricks is just trying to implicate the government and trying to do things through the back door which the han. member cannot prove to the front door. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! 3266

April 28, ],.983 Tape No. 1506 ah-3 MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Ru·ssell) : Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speak¢r. The han. Leader ·of the The fact of the matter is that it has been admitted by the Minister of Justice (Mr. Ottenheimer) that there were plainclothes police in the gallery and that is what we - PREMIER PECKFORD: I said I did not know anything about it and I did not. MR. NEARY: He does not know anything about anything, Mr. Speaker, that is the trouble. 3267

April 28, 1983 Tape 1507 EC - 1 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I have to change the subject slightly again because I want to ask the Minister of Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development again about an up-dating on the caribou meat that is lying on the ground about thirty-five minutes flying time from Nain, and the Ski-doos and the sleds and the tents and so forth. Is there any possibility of getting a service going to bring this meat out of the country before it is spoiled? MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The han. the Minister of Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development. MR. GOUDIE: Mr.

Speaker, I should inform the House that my Goose Bay office has been monitoring this situation since the whole affair began earlier this week. And if the hon. gentleman might recall, yesterday I outlined that I presented a proposal to the communities affected where they can avai ~ of X number of dollars under the Native People's agreement to not only fly out the equipment and the meat that is in there now but harvest additional animals if they so desire, and I was waiting for · a response to that proposal. There has been no response .

The only thing I can add to what was said yesterday is that the han. gentleman's colleague, the member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren),is in the Goose Bay area now, I understand, trying to arrange something with the German air force to try to have them fly the meat out, which obviously is not connected with the provincial government at all. But I can advise the han. gentleman that,in checking with some of my colleagues, there are no funds available in any general vote now of government to remove the machines and 3268

April 28, 1983 Tape 1507 EC - 2 MR. GOUDIE: the meat from the area other than under the Native People's agreement, which is the position I put to the communities and, as a matter of fact, my parliamentary secretary is discussing with one of the leaders in Nain now this concept and there has been no response to date. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Ru ssell ) : Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. The hon. the Leader of the Mr.

Speaker, I am rather sur- prised to hear the answer because of all the helicopters that are in the area and in view of the money that the government is spending on advertising and on travel and so forth these days. But in the meantime, the hon. gentleman mentioned the German air force who no doubt have the equipment to do the job. Now, would there be any objection or would the provincial government have to make a request of the German air force in order to get them involved? Would it have to go through official channels?

And if so, has the han. gentleman made any approach towards the German air force 1who are carrying out manoeuvers and exercises in the area,to do the job that we cannot find the money to do? MR. SPE AKER : The hon. the Minister of Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development. MR, GOUDIE: Mr. Speaker, if the German air force, · which has just over the last number of days moved back into the Goose Bay area for their particular season of exercises or whatever they do, decide that they want to go in and do this 1then that obviously does not affect the provincial government. MR. NEARY: MR.

GOUDIE: 3269 No objection from the authorities? No, there is no objection at

April 28, 1983 Tape 1507 EC - 3 MR. GOUDIE: all. As a matter of fact, over the last two or tnree years they have made emergency .medical flights and other activities to various communi­ ties along the coast and more power to them, glad to see them do it. MR. NEARY: Well, a final supplementary then, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAXER (Russell): Opposition. MR. NEARY: The han. the Leader of the Would the hon. gentleman under- take then to notify the German air force that there is no objection on the part of the Province, that they would indeed welcome 3270

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1508 SD - 1 MR. NEARY: any activity they could provide to get this meat out before it spoils? Because I am sure with a little encouragement from the han. gentleman, from the administration, the German air force would probably be happy to do it. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The han. Minister of Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development. MR. GOUDIE: Mr. Speaker, as I have said, the han. gentleman's colleague is in Goose Bay now and at this time, I understand, is trying to make that arrangement.

They already know they can go ahead and do these things without having to deal with the provincial government on any official basis. MR. NEARY: 'Ihey might be afraid of getting into competition with commercial helicopters. MR. GOUDIE: If it ~rill help any we can make contact and let them know that I have no objection1but it is not necessary. MR. NEARY: Hr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, to come back to another topic -the Minister of Social Services (Mr.

Hickey) I notice is in his seat today.-there was a fire last weekend down at the Boys' and Girls' Horne at Pleasantville. Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the h.on. gentleman could give us some details of that fire? I understand, for instance, that two girls were locked in cells while flames were coming out through the windows of the building at Pleasantville. I believe the House is. entitled to have a report on that fire. Perhaps the Minister of Justice (~r. OttenheirnerL or the Minister of Social Services could give us some details, Mr. Speaker, 3271

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1508 so - 2 MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The han. Minister of Social Services. MR. HICKEY: Mr. Speaker, first of all ·, there is nothing unusual about my being in my seat, I am in my seat whenever I can be. The han. gentleman, as usual, puts his own trimmings and his own

interpretation on things when he is asking questions. It almost becomes redundant to respond. I do not know who informs him that two girls were locked in the detention unit ~!here flames flying al~ over the place. That is about as accurate as a good many more things he says. There . were three girls, as I understand it, in the . detention unit,and in another

section one boy. The detention unit is such that the boys and girls, whenever they are there, can come out into an open space, a larger room. It is not like a jail, Mr. Speaker. My information is that at no time was there any danger to any of the children who were in the detention unit, number one. Number two, the children were removed from the building immediately, alternate accommodations were found. 3272

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1509 HJ - 1 MR. HICKEY: The three girls 1'lho in fact that were in the detention unit where housed in the school 1 which is ad i a.cent to the dormitory ~.,here the fire was, and which is equipped with facilities. So it was just a simple matter of moving some beds to that building across the space in between and they were housed there. The other children, some six or seven boys, were transferred to Whitbourne, other girls were sent home, and two other girls were placed in a home in St. John's.

The most up to date info~ation that I have is that the building has been cleaned up anc . some repairs will be made and within the matter of a week to ten days everyting will be back to normal. MR. SPEA...T<ER {Russell) : The time for Question Period has expired. DR. COLLINS: NOTICES OF HOTION Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr.

Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce the following bills entitled: "An Act Respecting An Increase In Certain Pensions", ' 1An Act Repecting An Increase In Certain Pensions For Transferred Employees" and also,"An Act To Amend The Uniform Services Pension Act". ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS FOR ~miCH NOTICE HAS BEEN GIVEN MR. DAWE: MR. SPEAKER: MR. DAWE: Mr. Speaker. The han. the Minister of Transportation. Mr. Speaker, I would like to table answers to Questions Number 55, 65, 69 and 88 asked on the Order Paper by the member for Bellevue (Mr. Callan). PRESENTING PETITIONS MR. ROBERTS: Mr.

Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the member for the Strait of Belle Isle. 3273

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1509 MJ - 2 MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, the petition which I present today has been signed by 812 men and women who live in my constituency, most of them residents 0f the Town of St. Anthony, although I see in looking through the petition that men and women who live in some of the nearby cornrnunities,including St. Lunaire and Griquet,are among the signatories. The situation which has given rise to the petition has come about as a result of a proposal by a group of business men in St.

Anthony to open a drugstore, a commercial store, in which there will be contained a dispensary for prescription and other drugs. These men now operate a store, what they are going to do is turn it into a drugstore by adding the services of a pharmacist and a dispensary. That of course is entirely their right, it is a free country and if these business men who run this business and ran it ,very successfully over the years wish to operate a drugstore in addition to their present business more power to them as long as they satisfy the requirements of the Pharmacy Act and the requirements to the St. Anthony Council.

However, there is a problem because of a policy which this administration has continued - and I used the word ·continued because to be fair about it this policy has been in effect as long as I can recall, it was in effect , for example,during the period I was Health Minister and long before that and as far as I know it has been effect ever since. 3274

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1510 JV - 1 MR. ROBERTS: The policy requires that where a privately operated pharmacy opens the Government will not compete in a publicly funded pharmacy. I think I have stated it accurately,if I have not the Minister of Health (Mr. House), who I hope will speak in this debate, will doubtless correct me, but that is the gist of the policy. The inevitable result of that policy, Mr. Speaker, over the years, has been to drive up the cost of prescription drugs in particular to the men and the women who must then go to a privately op~rated pharmacy as opposed to the publicly operated one.

That is the inevitable result. I do not think there have been any exceptions to that. The issue then, here in St. Anthony, is whether the Minister of Health will require the publicly operated pharmacy, the publicly operated dispensing service to be precise,which is provided by the Charles Curtis Memorial Hospital in St. Anthony,whether that must be discontinued. That dispensary or its predecessors have been operating now for ninety years and more. That is how long the Grenfell people have b~en operating a hospital and its facilities in St. Anthony. It serves far more than St.

Anthony of course, because the hospital is the base hospital for all the Grenfell services, both in Labrador and on the Island,and serves as the primary treatment centre for people in a large area. I think everything North of a line on the Northern Peninsula, from, say, Blue Cove to Harbour Deep1 everything North of that the people look to the St. Anthony Hospital as being their primary treatment centre in addition to being the referral centre. There are small health facilities 3275

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1510 JV - 2 MR. ROBERTS: at Flowers Cove and at Roddickton but neither of those is a hospital facility in any sense of the word. If the government insist upon the closing of the hospital dispensary, then, Mr. Speaker, the results will be inevitably to drive up the cost which people must pay for drugs which, of course, is something they must have. If your doctor tells you you need a prescription, you really have to go and get it, there is no choice. It will also drive up the cost to the government, Mr.

Speaker, because, of course, the government pays a large number of drug bills, either through the Senior Citizens Plan or through the Social Assistance Plan. The prayer of this petition, Mr. Speaker, is a very simple one - I will read it: "We the undersigned, strongly disapprove of the move to establish a Drug Store in St. Anthony at this time. With the high rate of seasonal employment and a large number of people on fixed income,we feel that these people cannot afford the high cost of drugs which will result from the establishment of such an outlet.

We strongly recommend the continuance of drug dispensing under the present setup." That is the prayer, Mr. Speaker. I support it completely and without reservation. In doing that let me say two things~ ~irst of all, Mr. Speaker, allowing the hospital pharmacy to continue to operate will not,in any way affect the right or the ability of these private business- men to do what lawfully they may, namely, to operate a drug store and a dispensary in St. Anthony. Let them compete, 3276

April 28, 1983 Tape 1511 EC - 1 MR. ROBERTS: that is the very heart, the very pith and essense of the entire free enterprise system as we know it. Secondly, Mr. Speaker, I am told - and I have made enquiries on this - that the cost of the drugs, the hospital in giving out its drugs does not do so for free, Mr. Speaker, it levies a charge.

I am told that that charge is a true and an accurate charge based on the cost of dispensing the drugs, including not only the cost of the materials but the cost of the labour and the cost of the necessary facilities or that portion of the hospital which is used for those purposes. So there is no indirect cost to the public chest, the cost is borne by the prescription charges whether they be paid by the individual or paid by some department of government on behalf of that individual as a result 'of some other programme. So, Mr.

Speaker, there would be no cost to the people of the Province in allowing the hospital to continue. There would be a cost to the people of that area, a large area of the Northern Peninsula if the drug dispensing in the hospital were not allowed to continue. And finally, Mr. Speaker, I wi~l say that I submit that there is just cause here for an exception to the policy which has been in effect. The St. Anthony hospital, the Curtis Hospital is a unique organization, unique in the area it serves and the way in which it serves that area. There is no comparable facility any­ where in Newfoundland and Labrador.

My time, I gather, is just about up, Mr. Speaker. I would simply say I support the prayer of the petition. I do so without any reser­ vation or hesitation because I believe it to be in the 3277

April 28, 1983 Tape 1511 EC - 2 MR. ROBERTS: best interests of the people of that area and I would say to the Minister of Health that what these people ask is reasonable. ~~at they ask is that he direct his officials to refrain from directing the hospital at St. Anthony to cease the practice of drug dispensing. It affects the Eagle River district, it affects St. Barbe district, it affects the Torngat Mountains and Naskaupi districts, it also, of course, affects most directly my own district. I support the petition, Sir. MR. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The han. the Minister of Health. MR.

HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, I want to respond to the petition and again, of course, the rules do not allow me to debate it and I guess, in this case, I just want to explain more of the policy. First of all, I am very familiar with it. I have had a delegation from the St. Anthony area in my office and I have responded to the issue by letter. The han. gentleman is correct when he states that the policy of government is to not interfere with a legitimate business and the dispensing of drugs in the proper way is a legitimate business Of course, whenever we have a drugstore located in a community, be it St.

Anthony or Twillingate or Norris Point or any other place, we ask our facilities, our boards of the hospitals, or in the case of cott~ge hospitals our administration people there, to desist from dispensing except in emergency cases. So that is the first problem we have here. Now, to make an exception, Mr. Speaker, for the community of St. Anthony ·or the community of Norris Point or the community of Twillingate would be 3278

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1512 SD - 1 MR. HOUSE: similar to saying to all the has pi tals here in town, You fellows go ahead, you have the legitimate right to dispense drugs. So, Mr. Speaker, we have a policy. I do not know -the han. gentleman said we are continuing it-I do not know but he was the Minister of Health who put that policy in place. I am not sure of that. MR. ROBERTS: No, no. MR. HOUSE: But,anyway, I am saying that it was there and, of course, the very fact that drugstores are springing up .is because we have encouraged them to spring up,because we think it is better done through the drugstores. MR.

ROBERTS: I put the pharmacists (inaudible) through CTT to gear up the pharmacists in the Province. That was my contribution to this. MR. HOUSE: So, Mr. Speaker, that is the situation and, you know, as I said, there is a way. The board has written us,incidentally,and asked if they could continue. And we have just written them back and told them that our policy is that we will not interfer with the legitimate dispensing of drugs or compete with private enterprise. I have also, I think, told them that they could lease out space in the hospital and pay a pharamist to run a pharmacy.

But with the process that we have here, the policy is not to permit it or to ask boards to refrain from it and most often, in all cases, boards have not carried on with it. But I will just say to the han. gentleman r will have further discussions with the board on that matter. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (~Ussellf: The hen. Leader of the Opposition. 3279

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1512 SD - 2 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I rise to support the petition presented by my colleague the member for the Strait of Belle Isle (Mr. Roberts) on behalf of 812 of his constituents in St. Anthony, Griquet and st. Lunaire. I was surprised to hear -and I cannot debate with the hon. gentleman - him say that government's policy is not to compete with private enterprise. I could ask the hon. gentleman about the Newfouldland Abattoir,where they sell chicken and pork, if that is not competing with private enterprise. MR. HOUSE: if they want it. MR.

NEARY: We will sell them that one Sell them that one! I am sure the hon. gentleman would do anything, would sell anything. He would sell the gold filling in his grandmother's tooth with it. if he thought he could get away MR. HOUSE: 100 on Monday. MR. NEARY: her well. Congratulations! Mr. Speaker, the key words­ My grandmother will be Yes, and, Mr. Speaker, I wish The key words in th_e peti.tfon presented by my hon. colleague is that the pha~acy in this hospital serves quite a large area. It serves three or four districts; Eagle River, Labrador South, a part of St.

Barbe and practically, I would say- 1 two­ thirds of the Great Northern Peninsula, because down in the other end, I presume, Norris Point - MR. HOUSE: It would not affect them down there .• MR. NEARY: That is right. It would not affect the people who live in the Bonne Bay area. 3280

April 28, 1983 Tape no. 1513 NM ~ 1 MR. NEARY: ~0 circumstances alter cases and I believe in this particular instance the hon. gentleman should overlook that policy of. not competing with private enterprise,because I really do not .belf.eve from that vast area of Newfoundland and across the -Strait of Belle Isle to Labrador, I really to do not heli.eve that the Curtis Hospital would be competing with the drugstore in that area. The drugstore would serve the needs of the immediate locality, St. Anthony and ~ MR. HOUSE: That is all it will effect, really. MR. NEARY: Well ,that is right.

But people from Labrador South are getting drugs, from well down the Great Northern Peninsula, quite a distance away, and when they go to the hospital to see the doctor ~ presume they get their prescriptions filled at the same time, so I believe that service should continue. And I believe in this case the han. gentleman should make a special case out of the dispensing of drugs in that hospital in St. Anthony , and I would like to ask the hon. gentleman, Mr.

Speake ·r, to reconsider 1 because the cctmcl.usion that I 'came to as a result of the han. gentleman's speakincr to the petition was that he really was not in favour of the pra yer of the petition. So I would like to ask the hon. gentleman to reconsider that and make a special case out of the tip of the Great Northern Peninsula,as far as the government policy for dispensing drugs is concerned. 3281

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1513 ORDERS OF THE DAY: MR. MARSHALL: Motion one, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Motion one, Committee of Ways and Means. I think the debate was adjourned last day by the hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for letting me know he is not leaving because NM- 2 I am about to have a few woras. He has a Public Accounts Committee meeting out in one of the back rooms there, and I ~sh him well.

I only wish roy colleague could get the Newfoundland Hydro under the wing of the Auditor General so that the Auditor General could examine the accounts of Newfoundland Hydro - MR. · SIMMS: Do not go calling a quorum now? MR. NEARY: Committee of this House - MR. ' SIMMS: MR. NEARY: MR. SIMMS: you usually do. MR. NEARY: a quorurn? MR. SIMMS: a meeting. MR. · NEARY: - so that the Public Accounts Do not go calling a quorum. I beg your pardon? Do not call a quorum like What do you mean, do not call When our members are outside at No, Mr. Speaker, when I am speaking I do not call a quorum.

I might draw it to the attention of the Speaker. But my han. colleaguE: -l"Jefore he leaves - made a very valid point there sometime ago about getting Crown corporations within the - MR. ROBERTS: vote for that. 3282 We all will have a chance to

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1513 NM 3 MR. NEARY: That is right -within the ambit of the Auditor General. I think that is a very, very good suggestion. Ne saw a class;.ic example recently of why that is necessary, tvhy it should oe done, and that was in connection, Mr. Speaker, with a report done by an independent group of chartered accountants, done for tlie Public Utilities Board in connection with a hearing that is going on before the Board at the present time for an increase in electricity rates in this· Province, and I will deal with this shortly. But, Mr. Speaker, we are now into day two in the budget debate. This is 3283

April 28, 1983 Tape 1514 PK - 1 MR. NEARY: day two and to read the newspapers and to listen to the media you would never say there was a budget debate going on ~n the House. The budget debate is one of the most important debates to take place in this House. There are two occasions during the year when the government have an opportunity to state what plans they have to develop our Province, to deal with theeconomy. There are two chances, they have two cracks at it, one is in the . Throne Speech and the other one is in the Budget Speech, moreso in the Budget Speech than in the Throne Speech.

So the main purpose of the Budget Speech is to give the government an opportunity to bring good news to the people, to bring glad tidings to the electorate who put the administration in power. That is really, Mr. Speaker, what it is all about. That is what a Budget Speech is all about,to give us a comprehensive report of the financial condition of the Province with regard to revenue and expenditure and borrowing,and to tell the people what plans the government have for developing the Province, for developing,for instance, our natural resources and for dealing with the problems in the economy.

That is what a Budget Speech is all about. Now, Mr. Speaker, did the last Budget Speech brought down by this government, did that Budget Speech deal with any of these items, any of these matters, that I just outlined? No, Mr. Speaker. The Budget Speech brought down by the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins{ in this Province was full of ridicule and slander and criticism of just about everything and everybody that you could name. It was just one chorus of criticism of the federal government, and of the Government of Quebec, a criticism, Mr. Speaker, that we hear now every day in this han. House.

The Budget Sp~ech was negative in every, every respect. Unlike the federal Budget that was brought down last week by Mr. LaLonde, Mr. Speaker, 3284

April 28, 1983 Tape 1514 PK - 2 MR. NEARY: the provincial Budget was negative, The federal Budget was positive, and the federal Budget criticized nobody. There is the difference, Mr. Speaker. If han. gentlemen watched the Budget Speech from the House of Commons and heard what Mr. LaLonde had to say and read the reports of the federal Budget that was brought down on April 20, Mr. Speaker, and they compared it to the Budget Speech in this House-it was not televised, by the way, it was nottelevised because of a policy decision on the part of ,the government caucus and not the Opposition, by the way. MR.

CARTER: (Inaudible). MR. NEARY: Pardon? MR. CARTER: It was all your fault. MR. NEARY: No, no it was not. No,let me straighten that one out now right fast. We were asked if we would agree to have the Budget Speech carried in a live broadcast from the House of Assembly, Mr. Speaker, and we agreed, we said yes. We thought we had made our point as far as televising the proceedings of the House of Assembly are concerned. We had made our point on two or three previous occasions, so, therefore, we decided to lift the ban, 3285

April 28,1983 Tape No. 1515 ah-1 MR. NEARY: as far as we were concerned, and we agreed, Mr. Speaker, to allow the television cameras and the microphones to be brought in on the floor of the House of Assembly so that the people of Newfoundland could hear and see the Minister of Finance (Dr.Collins) delivering his Budget Speech,because we wanted the people to hear it first- hand. We did not '1-Jant them to get it second-hand no more, Mr.

Speaker, than we want the people of Newfoundland and Labrador to get the daily reports from this House, from the daily sessions of this House -we do not want them to get them second-hand.

We would rather have the microphones and the television cameras here on the floor so that people, if they wanted to, could turn their television to the channel where the live broadcast was coming from the House of Assembly and they could see their member , the Premier and the ministers, and members in living colour, hear what they have to say, see what they do in the House, their behaviour, what attitude they have and so forth and so on. But the government will not allow that. In the last fifteen years,every year we have had a debate in this hon. House. Now ,Mr.

Speaker, I was just handed a note which says that "NTA President, Wayne Noseworthy,has conferred with the district presidents of his association and that they have decided not to hold a vote on the government's latest offer 1 instead the NTA want the government to put forward a more realistic proposal b.han the latest one on the table." Now, Mr. Speaker, I do not think any of us are surprised to hear that news. None of us should be surprised. MR. CALLAN: It would have embarrassed the Premier if they had voted on that. MR. NEARY: My hon. colleague might have a point. If the vote had gone ahead and they voted 3286

April 28,1983 Tape No. 1515 ah-2 MR.NEARY: 85 or 90 per cent in favour of the negotiating team and the executive of the NTA,then the Premier would have been boxed into a corner, he would have been placed in a very, very embarrassing position. I wonder what he would have done then, Mr. Speaker? What would the han. gentleman have done if the teachers had gone ahead with the vote and received overwhelming support from the membership? They already had the mandate. They did not have to go back to their members 1 anyway.

But let us use a hypothetical case and let us say that they did go back to their membership and they received overwhelming support from the rank and file members, what would the han. gentleman have done then, Mr. Speaker. He would have done handsprings.He would not know what to do. He is mysterious enough in this House now, Mr. Speaker. He does some unusual and queer things now, what would he do then? You would not be able to hold him. MR. CALLAN: Not queer, strange. MR.NEARY: Strange things,my han. colleague reminds me. That word is not unparliamentary , I suppose.

But he does some strange things, some weird things, Mr. Speaker. Sometimes we wonder if the hon.gentleman is with it at all. But we are not surprised to hear this bit of news, at least I am not. They have a mandate, they intend to deliver on that mandate. 3287

April 28, 1983 Tape 1516 EC - l MR. NEARY: During the Question Period today, Mr. Speaker, the Premier sat over there and sulked and would not give us any answers and told us there was some activity taking place. And, Mr. Speaker, one option I forgot to toss in there, by the way - MR. CALLAN: His resignation. MR. NEARY: ,. His resignation, that is right. I forgot to ask him if the fifth option was that he would go down to the Lieutenant-Governor, turn in his badge, pass in his resignation and call an election. What a time, Mr. Speaker, for an election! What a time for an election! The han. gentleman is a fighter.

The han. gentleman calls himself a fighter. He says he has courage. He says he has courage and he says he is a fighter. Well, Mr. Speaker, all he fights with are Newfoundlanders and Canadians. He fights with the teachers and he fights with the press. He fights with everybody in Newfoundland and Labrador. That is all he fights with. And then when he confuses issues and causes all kinds of confusion and frustration then he walks away. Now, if he is the fighter that he says he is, Mr. Speaker, if he is such a gallant fighter and he thinks he can fight, Mr.

Speaker, I challenge him now to go back to his corner and come out fighting; go down to the Lieutenant-Governor, turn in his resignation and admit that he has been a flop and a failure as Leader in this Province, throw in the towel. If he is such a fighter, if he has so much courage let us see his courage, Mr. Speaker. Is it courage? Mr.

Speaker, if the han. gentleman has any backbone, any courage and any fight in him apart from being a big bluff who tries to portray the image of a fighter - all he is doing is fighting in his own little ivory tower while people outside,whom he cannot hear,are hopelessly grasping for help in this Province. 3288

April 28, 1983 MR. CALLAN: to them . MR. NEARY: Tape 1516 EC - 2 And he will not go out and talk And he will not go out of his ivory tower and talk to them. He would not go out and talk to the teachers the other day, out in front of Confederation Building. 32 89

April 28, 1983 Tape 1517 PK - 1 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I realize that it is not necessary to have an election now, although I have grave doubts about that,because the reason you have forty­ four members sitting on that side of the House, the reason the Premier is where he is is because of an election that was held April 6, a little over a year ago. Now, Mr. Speaker, what was the issue in that election? It was a one-issue election, " the issue was to negotiate an offshore agreement. They asked for a mandate. They had a mandate, they had a huge majority in the House.

They had a mandate, it was an unnecessary election, it cost the taxpayers' of this Province probably a couple or $3 million,unnecessarily, Mr. Speaker. After the election they started closing down hospital beds and fighting with the teachers and fightig with the students over at Memorial about their student allo~vance and so forth. But if the han. gentleman has any courage now, and he keeps telling us and we keep hearing it,sometimes in editorial comment, what a courageous man he is, what a fighter he is. Well,now,I am going to call his bluff, call his bluff, because, Mr.

Speaker, although they have four years to run in their term of office,they have not been able to fulfill their mandate and they have the Province on the brink of financial ruin. The economy of the Province is colla;;-·sing, Mr. Speaker. So without belabouring the point I will just repeat my challenge to this great fighter, this great he-man, this great gentleman who waves his arms and froths at the mouth, wild-eyed, tries to leave the image_ 3290

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1518 SD - 1 MR. NEARY: in this Province that he is a fighter. Now we will find out how much of a fighter he is,because right across this House today I am issuing a challenge to that hon. gentleman to go down to the Lieutenant­ Governor now and turn in his resignation and ask for a general election. The hon. gentleman from Grand Bank (Mr. Matthews) smiles at that. Now, Mr. Speaker, is he a fighter or is he a coward? Members of this House will decide the answer to that,in due course. The hon. gentlemen sit over there day in and day out and they criticize me and they criticize the Opposition.

They tell us that the people of Newfoundland do not take us seriously, that we are just a big joke. Now, Mr. Speaker, let them put their jobs on the line, let them find out for themselves who is considered to be the big joke in this Province. I know the Government House Leader (Mr. Marshall) cannot answer me. The Premier every day after Question Period leaves the House and goes down to his office and then he is the first to come back and stand in this House and criticize members on our side of the House who are away on business, which is unheard of, by the way, in the precincts of this House. So, Mr.

Speaker, I' will give the hon. gentleman a reasonable period of time to make up his mind. MR. MARSHALL: If you are going to the -· .. - Lieutenant-Governor yourself, why do you want us to do it? MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, do not worry, that is tucked away in my computer. MR. MARSHALL: MR. NEARY: reference. He now has a computer. That is tucked away ~or future 3291

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1518 SD - 2 MR. NEARY: Let us s~e, Mr. Speaker, how mu .ch nerve the hon. gentleman has, let us see what kind of a fighter he is, let us see how much courage he has. MR. MARSHALL: Everybody knows. MR. NEARY: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I would suggest to the hon. gentleman that the laugh might be on the other side of his face, if the emperor, Mr. Speaker, has the nerve and the courage to call an election now. We are going to be disappointed, because I know he will not do it, I know he will not accept my challenge.

Mr. speaker, it is unfortunate because there are many groups in this Province now who would like to get back to the polling booth, who would like to get a crack at the ballot box.· 3292

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1519 NM-1 MR. NEARY: There are now a lot of Newfoundlanders who are having second thoughts about what they did a year ago, second thoughts, Mr. Speaker. They would love now to be able to qet back to the ballot box. You have the construction workers who would love to be able to get a crack at this administration. You have got the fish plant workers in Grand Bank and Burin and Ramea and Gaultois and Harbour Breton and Fer.meuse, and St. Anthony, would they not love now to be able to get to the ballot box to get a dart at the representatives of the Tory Party in this Province. Mr.

Speaker, the people of Buchans, would they not love to be able to get a dart, and the people of Baie Verte and the people of Labrador West, and the people of Harbour Main-Bell Island. And, Mr. Speaker, would not the nurses and the public servants love to get a crack at this administration now? Would they not love to get to the ballot boxer? And, Mr.

Speaker, what about the parents of children who are out of.school, would they not love now to be able to send their message to the Premier and to the administration? ~·That about the students over at Memorial University, and at the College of Trades and Technology, and the sixteen vocational schools throughout the Province, would they not love to be able to mark their x's now, to cast their ballots now? Mr. Speaker, if there was an election today hon. gentlemen,I am afraid,would not be over there very long. And that is why the hon. gentleman w£11 3293

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1519. N...ll.! MR. NEARY: not call his election, he has no couracre, he has no intestinal fortitude. MR. HOUSE: H:e has a mandate, boy, for five years. MR. NEARY: He has a mandate for five years, Mr. Speaker. I say to the hen. gentleman now that he can try all he wants to drag in red herrings about mandates, the gauntlet has been flung down in front of the hon. gentleman, and I amlwilling to bet you now, Mr. Speaker, that he does not have the courage, he does not have the cour·age to do it. The mandate is there. Well 1 the teachers also 2 have a mandate. HR. ANDREWS: ago.

You said that eighteen months MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the teachers have a mandate, but the hon. gentleman is questioning the teachers' mandate just the same as the people are questionincr the hon. the Premier's mandate. HR. ANDREWS: You called for an election eighteen months ago. MR. NEARY: No, Mr. Speaker, I certainly did not. MR. ANDREWS: And you got it,buddy. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : Order, please! MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the teachers have a mandate to negotiate and deliver an agreement. Who is questioninq their mandate? 3294

April 28, 1983 Tape 1520 EC - 1 MR. NEARY : The same gentleman now, his ministers are telling me - MR. DINN: You are changing the subject now. MR. NEARY: No, I am not changing the subject, I am coming back, do not worry. And there is no ··way the hon. gentleman is going to get off the hook that easy, Mr. Speaker, because, as I said, my challenge will prove once and for all whether we are dealing with a fighter or a coward. It is just as simple as that, Mr. Speaker.

It would be unusual to have an election a year or a couple of months after the last provincial general election, but in this case, I think it would be warranted. I think the people of this Province would welcome it, I think it would be justified and it would be warranted, Mr. Speaker, because the Province is in ruin as a result of the mismanagement of the resources by this administration. Now, Mr. Speaker, we will just have to wait and see the answer to that challenge. It is a challenge - the hon. gentleman can laugh all he wants - it is a very serious challenge.

It is a challenge that I make on behalf of all unemployed people in this Province, all people on social assistance, students at the university and at the colleges and at the vocational schools. It is a challenge that I fling at the hon. gentleman from the nurses, from the public service employees, from construction workers, from the parents and from the teachers. I cannot think of any other groups, Mr. Speaker, that the administration have not picked a fight with at one time or another, or who have not had to knuckle under pressure from the hon. the Premier. 3295

Ap ril 28, 1983 Tape 1520 EC - 2 MR. N'El\RY: Mr. Speaker, the han. the member for Grand Bank (ltr. Matthews) may treat it lightly; the hon. gentleman may just look upon ~t as a joke,but it is no joke, Mr . Speaker. I am very, very serious. Mr. Speaker, people are concerned about their future, concerned about this Province. They are concerned about the behaviour and the attitude of the Premier. They realize what they are up against, Mr. Speaker. They had great confidence anC!. faith in the hon. gentleman a year or so ago. They thought indeed that he was a fighter.

A lot of people did not know what he was fighting for. And they gave him a mandate, ~ very large mandate to govern this Province, but the trouble is that the hon. gentleman has not been governing. He is a very 3296

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1521 HJ .,. 1 MR. NEARY: poor administrator. The flaw in his character, the flaw in his ability, Mr. Speaker, ~s that he cannot negotiate and he is a poor administrator, He means well the poor fellow and I will give him credit,he is a. good Newfoundlander. He is no better a Newfoundlander than, anybody else sitt~ng on either side of this House, no better or no worse. We are all good Newfoundlanders. The han. gentleman is in that category of a good New.foundla,nder but the trouble is that he cannot cope, he just cannot govern, the Province.

The han. gentleman feels,aided and abetted by the President of the Council, the Government House Leader (Mr. Marshall), who has a very buttoned-down mind, the Prem;ier aided and abetted by the hon. gentleman sometime~ strays too far afield, goes too far, makes anti-Canadian, remarks and statements that can only do damage to this Province. MR. CARTER: That is a personal attack. MR. NEARY: It is not a personal attack, The bon. gentleman happens to be Premier of this Province, MR. CARTER: Is your time not up yet? MR. NEARY: The han. gentleman's time will be up if the Premier will accept my challenge. SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman would be permanently retired to the savory patch if we had an election right now. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. CALLAN: MR. SPEAKER: is a quorum present. Oh, oh! Mr. Speaker, a quorum call, please. Order, please! A quorum call. Call in the members. Order, please! With the agreement of both sides,there The han. the Leader of the Opposition. 3297

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1521 MJ - 2 MR. NEARY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, the han. member for Grand Bank has been interruptingme on a number of occasions this afternoon. Mr. Speaker, I have news for the hon. member for Grand Bank (Mr. Matthews), I just had another message delivered to me which says that - MR. MATTHEWS: What does he mean ,another message? MR.

NEARY: This was a telegram that was sent to the member for Grand Bank yesterday, 'We feel that you can no longer be quiet about the NTA Collective Bargaining agreement' - there you go,he has the telegram there now, look~ 'We feel that you ·can no longer be quiet about the NTA Collective Bargaining agreement. Y.le request an immediate public statement on your stand on this particular issue. Time is running out.' MR. TOBIN: MR. NEARY: says - MR. MATTHIDvS: MR. NEARY: MR. MATTHEWS: That is not just to hirn, everybody got one. Mr.

Speaker, listen to \"hat the telegram You are IreSsenger boy now, are you? - 'Time is running out.' It ran out on April 6th for the man who sent that, you know we won. MR. NEARY: MR. MATTHEWS: who sent that. MR. NEARY: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. NEARY: Pardon? I said, time ran out on April 6th for the man Mr. Speaker, it says here - Oh, oh! Mr. Speaker, I believe the hon. gentleman is aware that this telegram is truly representing 160 - AN HON. MEMBER: That is from a teacher playing politics! MR. SPEAKER (Aylward): Order, please! MR.

NEARY: -160 teachers in the area, And ~t says that the han. gentleman met two weeks ago with . 160 3298

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1521 MJ -3 MR. NEARY: teachers and he told them, ~~. Speaker, of his suooort and to <i-'lte he has been silent. MR. MATTHENS : One hundred sixtv, eh? MR. NEARY: Wait, I am coming to that now. The telegram and petition was hand delivered to him yesterday on behalf of 160 members of the their branch. Now is that correct or not? MR. CALLAN: He is sitting on the fence. 3299

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1522 JV - 1 MR. NEARY: Delivered to him yesterday on behalf of 160 members of their branch. They want an immediate reply and a public statement. MR. TOBIN: with Lewisporte? MR. NEARY: I wonder if he would be familiar They want an immediate reply from the hon. gentleman and a public statement. MR. MORGAN: You are playing politics on the backs of the teachers. MR. NEARY: Well, Mr. Speaker, I was down in Ramea some time ago - MR. HOUSE: Where did you stand in 1969, when you were the Minister of Labour? MR. NEARY: The hon. gentleman makes his statement and he runs out through the door. MR.

SPEAKER (Aylward): Order, please! MR. NEARY: han. gentlemen. MR. HISCOCK: Mr. Speaker, I am enjoying the Why do you not go out on the steps and talk to the teachers? MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, is this not wonderful? The arrogance! The most vocal that we have over there now are the two han. gentlemen, the Minister of Health (Mr. House) and the Minister of Social Services (Mr. Hickey), the two han. ministers who are trying to recoup the deficit on the backs of the sick and the poor. MR. HOUSE: Judge Mifflin never had a thing to say about us. MR. NEARY: Just listen to this, Mr. Speaker.

Twenty or thirty more laid off in Grand Falls today and who is the most vocal, Mr. Speaker, across the House? Who is the most vociferous? Who is continuously interrupting me? The two han. ministers, Mr. Speaker, who should be going around this Province hanging their heads in shame. 3300

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1522 JV -2 MR. NEARY: They should have their heads down between their legs,Nr. Speaker, these two hon. gentlemen,trying to recoup a deficit,brought about as a result of their mismanagement of the fiscal affairs of this Province,on the backs of people on social assistance and people who are sick and people who cannot defend themselves. MR. HICKEY: collective bargaining. MR. NEARY: Tell us who gave the teachers Tell us who gave the teachers the checkoff which made the NTA, tell us that? MR. TOBIN: What did Joey say about the teachers? MR. NEARY: One of the greatest Reforms, Mr. Speaker.

Bon. gentlemen like living in the past, I believe, Mr. Speaker. The trouble with the hon. gentlemen is they have the opposition syndrome. They just cannot get it out of their system. --- MR. CALLAN: Gutless cowards, that is whay they are. 3301

April 28, 1983 MR. NEARY: AN HON. MEMBER: MR. NEARY: SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. MORGAN: Tape No. 1523 PK-1 That is right, Mr. Speaker. Who is the president? Oh, we will find out. Oh, oh! Joey Smallwood said in this place right here, let the teachers hang,and you were Minister of Labour. You were then Minister of Labour and you did not open your mouth. MR. TOBIN: No, nor the member for the Strait of Belle Isle (Mr. Roberts) either, and he was sitting next to Joey. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I am rather enjoying this. They are awfully testy!

They are awfully jumpy and jittery over there today, and, of course, people who are seated in the galleries can observe the arrogance, Mr. Speaker. They can observe how members there opposite abuse and misuse the rules of this hon. House. They can see the arrogance, especially the arrogance of the member for Burin­ Placentia West (Mr. Tobin) who is noted for his rudeness. MR. CALLAN: The coattail member. MR. NEARY: The coattail member, Mr. Speaker, who should take a course in self-improvement. The hon. gentleman would have been well informed to take a Dale Carnegie course before he ran for politics. MR.

TOBIN: Is that right? MR. NEARY: should have done. MR. TOBIN: That is what the hon. gentleman There will be no Mifflin reports as there were on you when you were in government. ~ MR. NEARY: He has a gutter snipe mentality, Mr. Speaker. The hon. gentleman has a gutter snipe mentality. MR. TOBIN: There will be no Mifflin reports on me when I walk out. I worked in Social Services ·, you know I worked there, and you know what I know, too. 3302

April 28, 1983 Tape No . 1523 PK-2 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, if the han. gentleman cannot take it he should not be interrupting me across the House. The hon. gentleman, Mr. Speaker, also has to remember that one of the rules of this House is that if you are going to speak or interrupt or be rude or nasty that you have to do it from your own seat. MR. TOBIN: No, that is not one of the rules. MR. NEARY: would not know that. MR. CARTER: Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (MCNICHOLAS) : Of course, the hon. gentleman On a point of order, Mr. On a point of order, the han. member for St. John's North. MR. CARTER: Mr.

Speaker, I realize that the rules of relevance are very wide-ranging in the Budget debate, but I would be indebted either to you, Mr. Speaker, or to the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) who is now speaking, as is his right, if I could be told what he is being relevant to. I am not asking that he be relevant, merely that he define what he is trying to be relevant to. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, to that point of order. To that point of order, the han. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Of course, Your Honour, I do not have to waste time to speak to that. It is not a point of order, Mr.

Speaker, it is just another excuse for the hon. gentleman to get up and show his ignorance for the decorum and the rules of this House. MR. SPEAKER: I would rule that it is a difference of opinion between two hon. members. MR. NEARY: And so, Mr. Speaker, I hope that I will be able to carry on my few words, my few remarks 3303

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1523 PK -3 MR . NEP. .RY : this aftern oon , because I only have a short time , Mr. Speaker, in which to make a few statements, important statements, that I want to make . So I hope the bon. gentlemen wi ll discontinue the ir interruptions , and if they do , Mr . Speaker , they have to be prepared to take as good as they send . The hon . member for Burin -Placentia West (Mr . Tobin) is now gone out of the House mad, the member for Grand Bank (Mr . Matthews) 3 3 0 1+

April 28,1983 Tape No. 1524 ah-1 MR.NEARY: is mad. I mean, Mr. Speaker, I did not bring on this teacher's dispute. I did not bring it on. The pressure that is on the Premier and on the administration is not my fault.If they hav~ mismanaged the economy and the development of this Province and the resources and the fiscal matters in this Province,that is not my fault. Why should they take it out on me? Why should they get mad with me? They should be getting mad with the Premier, the leader of the administration. That is the gentleman they should be mad with, ~he Minister of Health (Mr.House). MR.

HOUSE : I am not mad with you. You are boring, that is all, you are boring. MR. NEARY: Well, Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman cannot resist interrupting me, he cannot resist it. I would not say that I am that boring. I may be getting the hon. gentleman's qander up, I may be getting to the hon. gentleman, Mr. Speaker, and he does not have much dander to get up. I may be getting to .. . -- / him,but 'if I am hurting the hon. gentleman's feelings, well, there is a recourse, Mr. Speaker. The hon. gentleman can step outside and have a smoke, if he smokes,or he can step outside and have a coffee.

So if I am boring and monotonous I apologize. I hope I am not. And if hon. gentl .eman would just stop intimidating me and trying to provoke me, then I may carry on with my few remarks uninterrupted, Mr. Speaker. But if they keep it up we are going to have a great time here this afternoon. We will have a great time and I will not get my speech finished this afternoon. Mr. Speaker, I just want to come back and I do not want to belabour this point any longer, but I think I answered the member for Grand Bank when he had a very broad smile on his face when I mentioned having 3305

April 28,1983 Tape No. 1524 ah- 2 MR. NEARY: a general election . He thought there was no need for it . Well , I just gave him an example of why there was a need for it . The other need , of course,in the hon . gentleman ' s district has to do with the fish plant in Fortune and Grand Bank and the fish plant 330 6

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1525 SD - 1 MR. NEARY: in St. Lawrence. And that is ample reason, I think, for the han. gentleman now to account -you could call an election, I suppose, an accountability session. And if the han. gentleman is so sure of his seat then he would not be ashamed, he would not be afraid to have an accountability election. It is only a year later.

I realize that it is only a year later but I believe,in view of the extraordinary circumstances in this Province at the present time, I believe we should have an early accountability election, call it an accountability election to give the people now an opportunit~ a little over a year late~ to let the people know how they feel about this administration. Now, Mr. Speaker, I was comparing there a short while ago the provincial and federal budgets. The provincial budget was full of negative statements, full of criticism, full of condemnation, full of slander, Mr. Speaker.

And when you compare that budget to the budget brought down by Mr. Lalonde last week in the House of Commons, it was completely opposite. Can the han. member for Grand Bank (Mr. Matthews) find one paragraph in the federal budget that criticized anybody? MR. MATTHEWS: If you keep it up you are going to be cr~t~c~zed sooner than you think. MR. NEARY: Mr . Speaker, could the han. gentleman find one paragraph in the federal budget that criticized anybody? MR. MATTHEWS: MR. NEARY: Why do you not :r;-ead the whole thing? No. I just have here th.e. highlights, this is only the highlights.

I aitJ askir;g the hon. gentleman if the han. gentleman can give me one example in the federal budget of criticism o:f; an,ythin9' or anybody? 3307

·:.. April 28, 1983 MR. MATTHEWS: that sound to you? MR. NEARY: a positive statement . MR. MATTHEWS: MR . NEARY: MR . MATTHEWS : MR. NEARY: 33 08 TApe No . 1525 SO - 2 Yes, $200 million. How does $200 million to me sounds like Overnight? A very positive statement. Why was it put in there? Why \'las what put in there? •·

April 28, 1983 HR. MATTHEWS: HR. NEARY: MR. MATTHE~vS : Tape No. 1526 The $200 million extra. $200 million extra? Yes. NM- 1 HR. NEAJ~ .Y: Hr. Speaker, I know what the han. gentleman is driving at and I would say that that cameraman,by the way, that cameraman should have gotten an increase in pay for the job that he did. He got more money for this Province, he got more money for the other provinces of Canada. Out of that $200 million a couple or $3 million more will come into this Province. So I compliment that cameraman.

T think he did a great job and I think that cameraman ,who used such imagination, who was so quick and alert when he zoomed the zoom lens in on the budget, should cret a raise in pay. MR. TOBliN: What about the (inaudible) and what about the statement about the fishing industry? MR. NEARY: We should pass a resolution in this Hous~ send it off to that cameraman and thank him, Mr. Speaker, for the service that he has provided for the provinces and for the people of Canada. MR. BAIRD: It ran into a $200 million mini budget. MR. ANDREWS: for airport MR. NEARY: MR. ANDREWS : MR.

NEARY: What about the $650 million (inau1ible) and $630 million -for the- Mr. Speaker, Mr. Lalonde's - What about the fishery? Does the hon. gentleman want to hear '.about the fishery? MR. ANDREWS : If it is a very positive budget, where is the money for the fishing industry? 3309

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1526 NM- 2 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, let me deal with that question. I am sure the hon. member for Burgee- Bay d'Espoir (Mr. Andrews) did not really expect me to give him an answer out r will. I will deal with his question because it is a very timely, very current, and very important matter. The matter of restructuring the fishing industry in this Province is one of the items that was left out of the provincial budget. Nowhere in the provincial budget can you find five cents for the restructuring of the processing sector. !-1R. AND HEWS : (Inaudible) dollars. MR. NEARY: Not a cent, Mr.

Speaker. The hon. gentelman can rant and rave all he wants, there is not a penny anywhere in that budget to restructure the processing sector of the Newfoundland fishing industry, the deep-sea fishery, not a cent. And Mr. Johnston, the Chairman of the Ad hoc Federal Committee, wired the Premier of this Province and asked the Premier, on behalf of his administration, if the administration here was prepared to put up their share of the financing of the restructuring. MR. MATTHEWS: I thought he appointed Mr. Kirby as the - MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, Mr.

Johnston asked the Premier to give a commitment on behalf of the provincial government as to how far they were prepared to become involved in the restructuring of the deep-sea fishery in this Province,financially. UR. ANDREWS : $61 million last year. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, that is untrue and that is a fi~Bnt 0f the hon. qentleman's imagination. $61 million last year. MR. ANDREWS: It is not. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the fish plant 3310

April 28, 1983 Tape 1527 EC - 1 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker,the fish plant in Ramea is closed. And I will just deal with that one because that is in the han. member's district. Now, let me ask the han. gentleman a question. Has he gone to the Premier, his leader, his emperor, in the last week and said to him, 'Look, Mr. Emperor, would you tell me now so that I can tell the plant workers and the fishermen in Ramea where the plant is closed - would you please tell me how much we are prepared to put in to get that plant reopened?

How much money are we prepared to put into the pot to get that plant reopened?' Has the han. gentleman done that in the last week or two? MR. ANDREWS: Not worthy of an answer. MR. NEARY: Not worthy of an answer. MR. ANDREWS: The people of Ramea know the answer to the question. MR. NEARY: Yes? What is the answer? The answer is that the han. gentleman has been bluffing the people of Ramea. I happened to be down in Ramea, Mr. Speaker. I was in Ramea about five weeks ago, six weeks ago, and I saw a telex from the Minister of Finance (Dr.

Collins) on the wall, saying that everything is going to be alright. 'Everything will be hunky-dory, everything will be okay when the Kirby report is made public.' That is what the han. gentleman was saying. MR. SIMMS: Do Y.OU want an answe.;r: to tha,t q\Je~t.ton? MR. HOUSE: You _,are the challenger I do you want a.:n. an.s.'i'fe;ll t.o the question? !'IR.NEARY: Well, Mr. Speaker, I want an answer but I am not giving up my turn. The former Speaker can go down and he can slip all the parliamentary tricks he wants to the hon. gentleman but it is not going to work. 3311

-· April 28, ·1983 Tape 1527 EC - 2 MR. NEARY: The hon. gentleman has not been here long enough yet. MR. ANDREWS: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Dr. McNicholas) : On a point of order, the hon. the Minister of Environment. MR. ANDREWS: Mr. Speaker, I have been asked a question, not as the Minister of Fisheries, but as I would suspect, an ordinary member of the House of Assembly, and if the hon. the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) would like an answer to that question, I would care to answer. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: MR.

NEARY: That is not a point of order, There is no point of order. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If you want to assist the member for Burgeo- Bay d'Espoir (Mr. Andrews), if you want to help him, why do you not take him out and give him a short course in the rules of the House? MR. SIMMS: boy, and we are learning. MR. NEARY: We are watching you every day, Well, that is right. And you are learning. You are watching and you are learning every day. MR. SIMMS: I have learned a lot from you, I must say. MR. NEARY: Well, that is right, you did. When you were in the Chair you also learned a little bit. MR. SIMMS: did you not?

MR. NEARY: And you learned a lot from me, Well, the kinds of things that the hon. gentleman was teaching I am afraid I did not want to learn, Mr. Speaker. MR. SIMMS: We have had many conversations. MR. NEARY: We certainly did, that is right, private and otherwise. I must say, I have found the hon. 3312

April is, 1983 Tape 1527 EC -3 MR. NEARY: gentleman is a decent fello,.,. He should not interrupt me and get caught in the crossfire, he should leave that to the quttersnines. MR. ANDREWS : Where are you more at ho.me? MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the hen. the member '"he represents Ramea in this House has been bluffing his constituents, has been bluffing the plant workers and bluffing the fishermen in Ramea. And, you know, Mr. Speaker, if th~ hen. member thinks he is fooling the people of Ramea, then I have to tell him, Mr.

Speaker, that I was there, and I can tell the hen. gentleman that he is not fooling the people of Ramea, they know the differenc.e. They know, Mr. Speal<er, that the processing sector of the Newfoundland fishe~ is provincial jurisdiction. 3313

April 28, 1983 MR. NEARY: any initiat ive - MR. HATTHE \-'JS: MR. ANDREWS : Tape No. 1528 MJ .,. 1 They know that and they know that The Kirby Task Force has done nothing. Nothing. They know that. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, they also know - I will take this Hansard and I will send it down to Ramea and let the people read the hon. gentleman's comments. Mr. Speaker, the people know that the processing sector is provincial jurisdiction and they also know this,that this provincial government under whose jurisdiction that plant comes,have not lifted a finger to help the people of Ramea. They have not responded - MR.

ANDREWS: into that plant. MR. NEARY: Three months ago we put $3 million - Mr. Speaker, they have not responded to Mr. Johnston, Chairman of the ad hoc federal committee, the Premier has not told Mr. Johnston how far this Province is prepared to go by the way of helping to finance plants that are not opened, Mr.

Speaker, I heard a statement yesterday - I read a statement in the newspaper or ~ heard it on the radio - by the ~1P who represents that area who is so frustrated over the inactivity, the lack of interest on the part of the Province that he came out publicly and stated that maybe what the Government of Canada should do, what the federal government should do, is ignore the provincial government and go ahead and open these plants even though it was not their jurisdiction. AN HON. MEMBER: He was being panicky. MR. NEARY: Well, would you blame the member for being panicky? ~ Mr.

Speaker, there is no money in Ottawa? 3314

April 28, 1983 MR. MATTHEWS : Tape No. 1528 MJ - 2 No, because there is no money in Ottawa for what they eay they are going to do. HR. NEARY: 'Ihere is no rroney in ottawa? Hr. Sfeaker, I believe that I heard a figure of $250 million that would be required in Newfoundland to restructure the deep-sea fishery, the processing sector. AN HON. MEMBER: MR. NEARY: That was for Atlantic Canada. No, $500 million for Atlantic Canada, $250 million in this Province. Now, Mr. Speaker, has the member for Grand Bank (Mr. Matthews) or has the member who represents Ramea (Mr.

Andrews) and the member for Burin - Placentia West (Mr. Tobin) have they also gone to the Premier and apart from saying, 'Look, Mr. Premier will you provide the answer; how far are we prepared to go? Are we prepared to do anything or are we just going to sit here like dummies and twiddle our thumbs?' Now, in addition to that have they gone to the Premier and said, 'Look, Mr. Premier, the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan), your colleague, has not yet appointed a negotiator to negotiate the restructuring of the processing sector of the deep-sea fishery.' Mr. Speaker, have they done that?

Has the member for Grand Bank done that? MR. TOBIN: st. George's? MR. NEARY: Did you hear about the poll in Burin- Has the member for Burin gone to the Premier lately, in the last twenty-four hours, today, yesterday, 3315

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1529 SD - 1 MR. NEARY: last week and said, 'Look, Mr. Premier, I do not think we are going to get anywhere with this restructuring until we appoint the negotiator. we were asked three weeks or a month ago to appoint'. MR. TOBIN: Tell us about the poll that was done in Burin - St. George's. MR. NEARY: Tell us about the negotiator? MR. TOBIN: Tell us about the poll that was done in Burin - St. George's. MR. NEARY: I can tell the han. member about the poll that is being done in Newfoundland. MR. TOBIN: Tell us about the poll that was done in Burin - St. George's. MR.

NEARY: And I would not want to give the hon. gentleman diarrhea before the House is over today. MR. TOBIN: Tell us about the poll that was done in Burin-St. George's and why Mr. Simmons - MR. NEARY : I would not want to give the han. gentleman the Summer complaint before the day is over, but have they gone to the Premier and said to the Premier, 'Look, between three weeks and a month ago we were asked to appoint a negotiator to negotiate the restructuring of the offshore fishery in this Province'. MR. TOBIN: You are ~istening to Roqer Simmons and he does not understand. You are being misled.

Do not listen to him, he does not really understand the issue. MR. NEARY: Is it not great, Mr. Speaker. I mean, I am satisfied to stay here all day if I' have to. But I am asking the hon. member to give me a straight answer 1 yes or no, has the provincial government yet appointed a negotiator to negotiate witn Mr. Kirby? MR. TOBIN: MR. NEARY: Well 1 what do you think? Well, I' am asking. 3316

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1529 SD - 2 MR. TOBIN: Well, see, where you are wrong is when Kirby was given the mandate to negotiate by the federal government, the mandate for negotiations was given to Kirby by the federal Cabinet not to the provincial Cabinet. If the federal government had asked us to look after it 1 it would have been done long ago. MR. NEARY: Now, Mr. Speaker, let me try to straighten the hon. gentleman out in that little statement that he justmade because obviously he is not familiar with what is happening. Mr.

Kirby was given a mandate by the federal Cabinet Committee to implement the recommendations for restructuring the deep-sea fishery in Atlantic Canada. Now,each province was then asked to appoint a negotiator to negotiate with Mr. Kirby as to what plans the provincial government wanted in that province to restructure the

section of the industry that comes under their jurisdiction. Okay? They were asked to appoint a negotiator. Now, have they appointed that negotiator? MR. TOBIN: Okay, just to set you straight on that, this government is waiting for Kirby to call a negotiated meeting,which he has the mandate to do. All he has to do is notify this government that he wants to negotiate the restructuring and people will be in place, yes. MR. NEARY: MR. TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, it is a pity - Mr. Kirby is · just back from Europe somewhere, now he is in New York and the fishery is no longer important. MR.

NEARY: It is a pity and a shame that the Minister of Fisheries· (Mr. Morganl or the Premier has not told the hen. gentleman what i:s going on. MR. TOBIN: r: am very much. a.ware o:J; wha .t is going on. 3317

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1529 so - 3 MR. NEARY: Mr . Spe.aker, Mr . Kirby is looking for somebody in this Province to negotiate \vith . He wants to know who has been named by the provincial government - one, two, three people. How many? Who are they? Identify them. Who shall I negotiate \·lith in Ne\vfoundland and Labrador? And right up to this moment Mr. Kirby, Mr. Johnston, 3318

April 28, 1983 Tape 1530 PK - l MR. NEARY:: nobody knows who the negotiator is for this Province. MR. TOBIN: Mr. Kirby has been out of the country with nothing to. 'do with the fisheries for the last two weeks. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, all you have to do is pick up your papers, listen to your radio and television and you will know. But just look at the damage that is being done, look at the time that is being wasted and look at the possibility of us losing out in any funding that is available for the restructuring of the processing sector. MR. TOBIN: Y:ou are wrong 'Steve'. MR. NEARY:: I am right, Mr.

Speaker~ I know I am right, Mr. Speaker. I am right. The Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan} confirmed in this House, outside of this House,that no negotiator has been appointed by the provincial government. Mn. TOBIN: MR. NEARY: negotiate - MR. TOBIN: has to call them to do it. What are we going to negotiate? Here is what they have to Yes, I know. But Kirby MR. NEARY: Here is what has to be negotiated. There has to be a merger of the companies, the processing companies, the Lake Group of Companies, John Penny and Sons and Fishery Products . There has to be a merger of these companies.

There has to be negotiations with the banks, ,,Ti th the owners, with the shareholers of these companies. 3319

April 28, 1983 Tape 1530 PK - 2 MR. NEARY: But anyway, Mr. Speaker, what we are up against here as far as the fishery is concerned is the fact that the administration have not yet appointed a negotiator. Kirby cannot fine, anybody to negotiate with. Now,I am becoming very , very concerned. Mr. Speaker, I am very , very concerned about the way things are developing as far as the restructuring of the offshore fishery is concerned, very concerned. I am not at all happy about it, As a matter of fact, i am very displeased about the way things are going.

And I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that it is time to give that supe+ bureaucrat the Royal Order of the Boot, Mr. Speaker. MR. TOBIN: Who is that, Kirby? MR. NEAR,Y: Yes, Mr. Kirby. I think, Mr. I Speaker, it is time for the Government of Canada to restore the responsibility for the fishery to Mr. De Bane, the Minister of fisheries, give him back the authority that has been taken away from him by this super bureaucrat• AN HON. MEMBER: They do not trust him. MR. NEARY: Well,they should trust him 1 because he is a very decent man, and I like him, Mr. Speaker. MR.

TOBIN: Sure, and I agree with you 100 per cent. MR. NEARY: But I am becoming increasingly ala~d and concerned about Mr. Kirby who is looking at the Newfoundland fishery from the vantage point of Wellington Street up there in Ottawa. And I do not like that, Mr. Speaker. I do not like the power and authority that is being put in the hands of this super bureaucrat. MR. TOBIN: I agree with you, Right on! 3320

April 28,1983 Tape No. 1531 ah-1 MR.NEARY: I was convinced a long time ago,if I needed any convincing,that this gentleman does not understand the local psychology, he does not understand the heritage and the tradition and the way of life in this Province. He looks at the job, the mandate that he has been given, he looks at it in a hard, cold, callous,dollars and cents way, profit and loss, Mr. Speaker. MR. TOBIN: No social conscience whatsoever. You are right on. MR.NEARY: Oh,I finally got the han. member to agree with me on something. But if I am right on, remember that I am the first who said it in this House.

He is a super bureaucrat, no heart. I am of the opinion that Mr. Kirby has been given to much authority, has been given authority that belongs to an elected person, to the federal Minister of Fisheries (Mr. DeBane). I think that there is a bit of a struggle going on , there is a bitter struggle going on. I th~nk that the heavies in the caucus, the heavyweights are winning out. And I have to come back to what I said in this House some time ago about my criticism of this administration here for not getting solidly behind the People's Conference for muddying up the water, Mr.Speaker, and they did. MR.

TOBIN: (Inaudible) your colleagues. MR.NEARY: No. They did muddy up the water. They had an opportunity to send a message to Ottawa which would leave no. doubt in anybody's mind up there that this administration was solidly behind the resolution that was passed unanimously at the People's Conference. Instead of that they created doubt, weakened the position, created confusion. HR. SH1MS: That is not true. MR. NEARY: It is true, l~. Speaker, and as a result of that I would say that the federal members in the Cabinet who were for Option 3 as amended had the legs knocked out 3321

April 28,1983 Tape No . 1531 ah- 2 MR. NEARY: from under them ,: had the props knocked out from under them by this Province not getting solidly behind them . You put yourself in Mr. DeBane ' s position . ffe is there and he is up ag~inst fierce competition and he is advocating the same thing that the Peop l e's Conference wanted and that is Option 3 amended . That is what Mr . DeBane favoured . And you have another heavy in the caucus ~-1ho says, ' No, we want Option 1 , we want the Nova Scotia type agreement . ' And then , Mr . Speaker , the telegram arrives from the People ' s Conference , a message a r r i ves from Newfoundland and then,the very next day 3322

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1532 JV - 1 MR. NEARY: after the message arrives, we have a proposal put forward by the Provincial Government which is different than the message. MR. TOBIN: Wait now. Wait now! That one was put forth first. It was the week before. MR. NEARY: Now, Mr. Speaker, would that not create some doubt? Would that not make the members of the Cabinet wonder if there was solidarity in this Province? MR. TOBIN: You were making some sense. Now just be honest.- MR. NEARY: No, I just want to get things in the right perspective.

If the hon. gentleman would just leave me alone I will come back to the other matter,but I just want to get it chronological order. MR. TOBIN: MR. SIMMS: MR. NEARY: And the Premier's position endorsed the people's. (Inaudible). . . No, that is right. But ~t ~s nice 1because the hon. gentleman keeps reminding me of things. MR. TOBIN: That is fair enough. MR. NEARY: Right. That is right,Mr. Speaker. MR. TOBIN: I am giving him the right inforrnation,see. MR. NEARY: No, the trouble is it is his lack of knowledge that motivates me into trying to provide him with some information. Mr.

Speaker, when the message arrived in Ottawa from the People's Conference then there was another document which arrived from the Provincial Government which was completely different than the recommendations from the People's Conference. And if you were in that Cabinet, Mr. Speaker, if you were a member of that Cabinet supporting Option Three as arnended,and 3323

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1532 JV - 2 MR. NEARY: your colleague who is a heavy from Nova Scotia, came and said, 'Look boy, you have not got the support, you do not have 100 per cent support from Newfoundland, they seem to be divided. You got the Provincial Government saying one thing and you have the People's Conference saying something different. MR. ANDREWS : MR. SIMMS: MR. NEARY: MR. TOBIN: Is that not shocking. Oh, come on now 'Steve'. Well, that is true. Who took

part in the People's Conference and who was the first man to ignore it? MR. SIMMS: We heard what Cashin said about it. TOBIN: And who was the first man to endorse the People's Resolution? The Minister of Fisheries for this Province. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I believe that I was the first one who went up to the mike and said, 'Let my name be first'. MR. TOBIN: No, you shouted from your chair. MR. NEARY: No, I did not. I went to a microphone. I was standing in the middle of the floor and I walked up and I made a brief statement. I did not want to play politics as han. members were doing.

I said, 'I would like for my name to be number one on that telegram' and then I took my seat. MR. TOBIN: You shouted it out, but the Minister of Fisheries said it first. MR. NEARY: I got a resounding applause from the audience and I took my seat. MR. TOBIN: Who got the standing ovation? It was the Minister of Fisheries who brought the people to their feet, not you. MR. NEARY: Anyway, Mr. Speaker, so the case was weakened and as a result we now find ourselves in a position where we are faced with Option One as amended. 3324

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1532 JV - 3 MR .• NEARY: Option One amended. Now what is Option One amended? Option One a.IIlended is a merger between Nickerson's and National Sea, which will make the Nova Scotia company a very powerful company indeed. Nickerson's and National Sea. National Sea is the best managed company right now in the whole Atlantic fishery. 3325

April 28, 1983 Tape 1533 EC - 1 MR. NEARY: National Sea have good manage- ment and they have been able to meet their financial requirements and meet their loan and pay back the money they borrowed and their productivity is excellent, so they right -now have a good reputation. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : Order, please! I interrupt the hon. the Leader of the Opposition to inform the House that there are no questions for the Late Show today. The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Does that mean we finish at 5:30P.M., Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Unless there is agreement by the House to continue. MR.

NEARY: Well, I hope I will be able to finish by 5:30P.M., Your Honour, but if I cannot, well, we will rise the House at 5:30 P.M., I guess. So you will have a very powerful Nova Scotian company. And in Newfoundland, when you merge Fishery Products, which is about $100 million in debt, and you merge the Lake Group of companies with Fishery Products, which is about $30 million or $40 million in debt, and you merge John Penny and Sons company with Fishery Products and the Lake Group of companies, you have a very weak Newfoundland company.

That Newfoundland corporate entity, compared to the Nova Scotia company of National Sea and Nickersons, will be very weak indeed. Now, Mr. Speaker, they have thrown in a sweetener. They said, 'Well, maybe we will give the Newfoundland corporate entity scallops. We will give them scallops because there is a good market for them and a good price, they are a money-maker. So we will give them the scallops. And we will also give them access to a couple 3326

Apr il 28, 198 3 Ta pe 1533 EC - 2 MR. NEARY: of ports in Nova Scotia so that there can be intraprovincial activity. 1 Now, Mr. Speaker, that is the way the situation stands at the moment and ~t is unfortun<>:te that it worked out that way. And, on the basis of that decision that was taken by the ad hoc committee of the federal Cabinet, Mr. Kirby was given instructions to proceed with the restructuring of the industry in Atlantic Canada. And Mr. Johnston, chairmap. of the conuni ttee, immediately communicated that information to the p;rovincial governments of the four Atlantic Provinces and Mr.

Kirby met with qfficials from the Department of Fisheries of this Province and Halifax a couple of weeks ago 3327

~pril 28, 1983 Tape No. 1534 MR. NEARY: and asked the provincial government to appoint a negotiator so that they could negotiate the restructuring here in this Province. Mr. Speaker, up to this moment we have not heard any announcement from the provincial government, from the administration here, from members there opposite, that a negotiator has been appointed. Kirby is gone off on vacation. The people in Ramea and Burin and Gaultois and Grand Bank and Harbour Breton and Fermeuse and all the other places are still up in the air as to their future. They do not know where they stand.

A NM- 1 decision is long overdue. It is cruel the way the people in these communities have been treated. They have been bluffed and hoodwinked. They have been given wrong information by their representatives. It is shameful, Mr. Speaker, the way they have been treated. It is shameful the way that Kirby has treated the problem in this Province. There is a struggle going on between the federal and provincial governments as to who is going to put up the money for re-opening plants that are not considered to be economically viable. That battle is going on.

And I have to ask the question here today, who is going to put it up? Has this government put forward a plan to the Government of Canada to assist in the financing? Will it be done on a fifty/fifty basis? Will it be done seventy-five/twenty-five? Will it be done ninety/ten? Or will the federal government have to do what Mr. Simmons suggested yesterday, and that is take the bull by the horns and stop beating around the bush and let the federal gove~nment take it over and open the plants, put their financing in, get the plants open. Is it going to come to that, Mr. Speaker? Is it going to come to that? 3328

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1534 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, \ole have an emergency situation. We have a crisis in the fishery. It is an emergency . The season has advanced now, Mr . Speaker, to the stage where I doubt very much if it would be w·orthwhile to re-open these plants . You know, Mr. Speaker, NM- 2 the fishery in this Pr ovince is more than just a livelihood for people who live in communities where you have fish plants . It is more than that . The fisher v 3329

April 28, 1983 Tape 1535 PK - 1 MR. NEARY: is a resource of an industry that affects every man, woman, and child in this Province, Mr. Speaker, if it does cost a couple of hundred million dollars, it does cost $250 million to revitalize the fishi~g industry in this Province, in my opinion that would be little enough price to pay for this great industry, the backbone of our economy. It would be little enough. Mr. Speaker, I would not blink an eyelash myself of spending a couple of hundred million dollars or $250 million to revitalize the fishing industry in this Province. I would not bat an eyelash.

We have hon. gentlemen now who are stating publicly, this is a lot of money, There are a lot of lives involved here, Mr. Speaker, a lot of human sufferingr a lot of communities involved that have been structured and craved out that made their mark in Newfoundland based on the fishery; their very way of life, their tradition, and their heritage, which may sound like old, worn out words, Mr. Speake•, but they are true- maybe old hats to some hen. gentlemen. Mr. Kirby understand this? MR. TULK: anything. MR. NEARY: MR. TULK: you know that. MR.

NEARY: Now I ask hon. gentlemen, does Kirby does not understand Does he understand? He does not understand anything, Or will he carry on with his present attitude of if plant does not pay close it down, leave it closed. I do not like that kind of an attitude, Mr. Speaker •. I do not like it. And I do not care who appointed Mr. Kirby whether it was NDP, Liberal~, or Tories, I do not care who they were, I am getting kind of fed up with this man, I am getting ~ed up with him. 3330

April 28 , 1983 Tape 1535 PK - 2 MR. NEARY: ~rr . Speaker , let no bon . gentle .man in thi s House think for a moment that anybody is parrotting the federal line in this House . We are all Liberals, of course, we are . We are all Liberals , and I am proud to be a Liberal , and I am pro ud to support a Liberal Government in Ottawa, proud of it . But that is not the point, ~tr. Speaker . Nobody is infallible, not even on that side of the House .

I believe the federal Cabinet should admit their mistake, man -fashion , and the moment that Kirby lands on Canadian soil again, the moment he steps ashore from his vacation in Europe, th at somebody be there to greet him with a No. 9, and give him the Royal Order of the Boot. The sooner we get rid of him the better, in my opinion . And that is not a condemnation or a criticism of my colleagues in Otta wa , Mr . Speaker, it is a statemen t that I make out of frustration 3331

April 28, 1983 Tape No, 1536 ;MJ - 1 MR. NEARY: and anger wi,th th;i.s man and with his attitude. Once he submitted his report and gave Canada probably for the first time we have, I suppose, a Canadian fishery policy - once he did that, once his report was made to Cabinet, I believe that Mr, Kirby should have been sent on to his position as Vice-President of CN. I do not think the man has it in him to restructure the Newfoundland fishery. As I said, he looks at Newfoundland from the vantage point of Wellington Street, in Ottaw·a, and that i,s not good enough, Mr. Speaker, AN HON ~ MEMBER: Be careful, MR.

NEARY: I know, I know, If this i,s p;icked up that I am here criticizing Kirby! But we have di,scussed it, Mr. Speaker. ~~y colleagues and I have discussed it and my colleagues can speak for themselves when the time comes. But I personally am fed up with Kirby. I never want to hear that name again in connection with the Newfoundland fishery. As far as I am concerned he has carr;i.ed out his mandate, now let him go in peace. Let us hear no more about Kirby. I do not want to hear any more about him, Mr, Speaker. Let the provincial and federal ministers, the provincial and federal governments get on with the job •.

Well, Mr. Speaker, I regret to hear that, but I am glad that the Premier gave me that little bit of information - MR. ANDREWS : Put pressure on your colleagues now. MR. NEARY: - that the pressure is on to negotiate head to head, minister to minister, government to government, That is the way it should be, I am not disputing that, Mr. Speaker, PREMIER PECKFORD: I am glad to hear that. MR. NEARY: I want Kirby out of the middle, Get him out of the middle of that situation and let the elected 3332

April 28, 1983 Tape No. 1536 MJ -2 MR. NEARY: representatives of the people, both on a provincial and federal level, deal with the matter. SOME HON. ME~fBERS: Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: I am all for that. That is what I have been saying for that last half hour, Mr. Speaker. And if that is what the hon. gentleman is trying to accomplish, then he has my blessing, Mr. Speaker. How can I make it more clear? .I never want to see or hear tell of that super- bureaucrat again. MR. ANDREWS: MR. NEARY: I never want to hear the name Kirby again. Well, stop talking about him. I wish I could, but we have to.

The trouble is that he is jammed in between. He is Mr. In-between. MR. ANDREWS: Get after .!lis boss to get r;i.d 0f him. 3333

April 28, 1983 Tape 1537 EC - 1 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I hope there will be a line or two of what I am saying today get out so that somebody will read it and say, 'My God, look at this, boy! Kirby is not ve