Manitoba Hansard — 12 December 1977 (Sitting 22A, 31st Legislature, 1st Session)

31-1-22a

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

ISSN 0542-5492 First Session - Thirty-First Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Vol. XXV No. 22A 26 Elizabeth 11 Published under the authority of The Honourable Harry E. Graham Speaker 2:30 p.m.Monday, December 12, 1977 Printed by P. N. Crosbie - Queens Printer for the Province of Manitoba

THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY of MANITOBA Monday, December 12, 1977 Time: 2:30 p.m. OPENING PRAYER by Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER, Hon. Harry E. Graham(Birtle-Russell): Presenting Petitions ... Reading and Receiving Petitions ... Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees ... Ministerial Statements and Tabling of Reports ... Notices of Motion ... Introduction of Bills .. . ORAL QUESTIONS MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Leader of the Opposition. MR. EDWARD SCHREYER(Rossmere): Mr.

Speaker, my question to the First Minister flows from the rather lengthy telex received by the First Minister from the Prime Minister referring to a series of major economic policy meetings to be held early in 1978. Given that definitive dates have been set for the meeting of Finance Ministers in January, I believe the First Ministers in mid-February, have arrangements been made, have dates been set, I should ask, with respect to these other sectoral meetings as it is referred to of Mines, Fisheries, Forestry, Agriculture? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable First Minister. HON. STERLING R. LYON(Charleswood): Mr.

Speaker, in response to the Leader of the Opposition, there have been individual contacts made by the counterparts of a few of the members of the government of Manitoba. Whether these would fall under what the Prime Minister describes as sectoral meetings or not, I am not sure atthis date.

I can say to my honourable friend that I took the view with the Prime Minister that I saw very little useful purpose in the kinds of sectoral meetings that he outlines or suggests in his letter or telex that but rather suggested to him that the respective Ministers of Finance of each province shou Id co-ordinate the activities, or shou Id co-ordinate the points of view of the respective ministers within their own governments and bring that kind of co-ordinated view to the Finance Ministers' Conference.

I have had no further indication from the other premiers of Canada on this point but I expect to be receiving some fairly shortly as I know there were opinions pro and con on the need or desirability of sectoral meetings but already I know my colleague, the Minister of Finance, has been to an Energy Ministers meeting and I know that at least one other minister has been asked to attend a meeting with respect to his departmental affairs. There is no overall co-ordinated approach that I am aware of and as I have indicated previously, we would not necessarily favour this approach in any case. MR. SCHREYER: Mr.

Speaker, that is somewhat clarifying of course. I should like to ask the First Minister then if he can say that it is still in a very real sense an open question as to whether sectoral meetings, so-called, will be held specifically with respect to say Agriculture, Forestry, Fisheries, etc. ls it still an open question? MR. LYON: There may well, Mr. Speaker, be meetings that will be taking place between the federal ministers and their counterparts provincially in the ordinary course of events.

Whether these would qualify under the Prime Minister's definition of sectoral meetings we find difficult to know until after the meeting has been called and the agenda drawn and so on for it. But at this stage, his assumption accords with mine that there is no co-ordinated overall approach to it that I am aware of, rather individual intercessions have been made by federal ministers with respect to a few of the departments in this regard. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Selkirk. MR. HOWARD PAWLEY: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed toward the Honourable the Attorney-General.

Can the Honourable the Attorney-General assure the House that the new federal legislation pertaining to gun licensing control will not impose as a result of its administrative costs, additional burden upon either the municipal or provincial taxpayer? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Attorney-General. HON. GERALD W. J. MERCIER(Osborne): Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are working towards that end. MR. PAWLEY: A supplementary. ls the honourable member presently in discussion with the Justice Minister, the Honourable Ronald Basford in this connection? MR. MERCIER: In correspondence, Sir. 593

Monday, December 12, 1977 MR. PAWLEY: Can the Honourable the Attorney-General advise us whether it is, in his opinion, presently the situation that there would be additional burden imposed upon the provincial taxpayer or the municipal ratepayer in connection with this legislation? MR. MERCIER: There is a possibility, Sir. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Elmwood. MR. RUSSELL DOE RN: Mr. Speaker, I wanted to direct a question to the Minister responsible for the Task Force. Were the projected staff cuts of 100 at Brandon, Portage and Selkirk based on recommendations from his task force? MR.

SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister. HON. SIDNEY SPIVAK(River Heights): No, Mr. Speaker. MR. DOERN: I would then ask the minister whether he will be reviewing that action by the Minister of Health either to give it a stamp of approval or to possibly block if? MR. SPIVAK: Mr. Speaker, the answer would be no. But having said that, I would have a caveat on the answer to indicate the task force will be reviewing the general practices of all departments with respect to its commitment to try and provide some reform in government spending. MR.

DOERN: I would then, as a final supplementary, ask the minister whether the moneys that were lost by tax bills and tax cuts being brought into the legislature during this session will be completely offset by staff cuts rather than the imposition of new taxes? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Logan. MR. WILLIAM JENKINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I address my question to the Honourable Minister of Labour, the Minister in charge of the Civil Service, and ask her if she has had time to get a reply to the question that she took as notice on Thursday, December 8th. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Labour.

HON. NORMA PRICE(Assiniboia): I would like to know what the question is, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Logan for clarification. MR. JENKINS: Yes, Mr. Speaker, l'llquote here from Hansard of December 8th; the 10 a.m. session. The question I had asked - she said that the salary range was advertised of the now full-time commissioner of the Civil ServiceCommission. I told her I checked the newspaper, I checked theOrder in-Council, I checked the Civil Service notice.

I have not found the ad that she's talking about and she took that question as notice and was going to try and get back to me with an answer. MRS. PRICE: Mr. Speaker, the Com missioner came back in at the same level as he had before his retirement which was $36,500 to $41, 100.00. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Selkirk. MR. PAWLEY: Mr. Speaker, my question to the Honourable the Attorney-General. Would the Attorney-General be able to advise whether or not he has completed his analysis of the report commonly known as the Jeroff case. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Attorney-General. MR. MERCIER: Yes, Mr.

Speaker. MR. PAWLEY: Is the honourable member in a position to indicate whether he is satisfied as to his Crown Attorney's handling of the case pertaining to the allegations regarding the plea bargaining. MR. MERCIER: Yes, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Leader of the Opposition. MR. SCHREYER: Mr.

Speaker, to the Minister of Northern Affairs, although the matter isl suppose inter-departmental in nature, and that is to ask the honourable minister if in the approximate six weeks that have elapsed since the announcement by International Nickel of its employment and operational levels atThompson, and given the fact that there is, one understands, a committee comprised of city representatives, community citizen representatives, presumably INCO representatives, province of 594

Monday, December 12, 1977 Manitoba and Canada, has this committee, this ad hoe committee, made any progress with respect to the coming forward with tangible plans of whatever kind that would alleviate to some degree the problem of the impact at Thompson. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Northern Affairs. HON. KEN MacMASTE R(Thompson): Mr.

Speaker, to the Leader of the Opposition, they have and are compiling quite a list of proposals and in approximately the first week in January I think they are going to be ready to come down and I will be arranging meetings with the various Cabinet Ministers either together or separately to review each particular proposal as it applies to the governmental departments. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Rupertsland. MR. HARVEY BOSTROM: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, I direct my question to the Honourable Minister of Northern Affairs.

I note from press reports that the honourable minister is recommending an individual or individuals from the private sector to take another look at the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation. Could the minister indicate to the House which individual or individuals is he considering to do this work? MR. SPEAKER: The Minister of Northern Affairs. MR. Mac MASTER: Mr.

Speaker, to the Honourable Member forRupertsland, in a letter that I sent to the federal Minister of Fisheries, I asked him -because it is a federal jurisdiction -if he would allow me the opportunity to put a couple of Manitoba people, marketing people, into his system and give me a written report which I would present here or any place outlining what they see to be the deficiencies within the marketing system. It seems to me and to many others thatthere are greatdeficiencies in the marketing system.

We have now over 14 million pounds of surplus fish being stored in the Winnipeg area and we do hear reports, founded or unfounded, that the corporation has not been pursuing their marketing ventures wel I, either in Canada or abroad. I wou Id I ike that confirmed by somebody. As to the specific names, I don't have specific names but I think within the province of Manitoba there are excellent people who are knowledgeable in world and local marketing procedures that we could find to put in there. MR. BOSTROM: A supplementary to the same minister.

Given that the minister has probably had the opportunity by now to review the way in which the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation is structured and how it is controlled, can he confirm thatthe report in the Winnipeg Free Press that it was a Manitoba government decision to build a plant in Transcona is false. MR. SPEAKER: Order please. May I remind the member that those questions were asked this morning. The Honourable Member for Selkirk. MR. PAWLEY: Mr.

Speaker, pursuant to the earlier questions which I directed toward the Honourable the Attorney-General arising out of the report referred to earlier, can the Attorney-General advise the House as to whether or not there have been established guidelines developed within the department as to when, through the plea bargaining process, a charge such as that one involving rape can be reduced to one of contributing? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Attorney-General. MR. MERCIER: Mr. Speaker, Sir, there have been no changes in the guidelines since October 24th. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Brandon East. MR.

LEONARD s. EVANS: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Health responsible for sports in M.anitoba and ask th� honourable minister w�ether he can confirm that Mount Agassiz may not be the site of the 1979 ski events for the 1979 Winter Games. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Health. HON. L. R. (Bud) SHERMAN(Fort Garry): Mr. Speaker, that question ha� b�en under review and I expect to be able to give a definitive answer to the honourable member within a very few days. MR. EVANS: Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister for his answer.

I wonder if he could advise members of the assembly what other locations may be under review by the minister. MR. SHER MAN: I can't do that, Mr. Speaker. I can only advise the honourable member that the decision to which he refers was, along with a lot of other decisions that were inherited by course by an 595

Monday, December 12, 1977 incoming government were subjected to review. That decision is being reviewed and the review will be completed within a matter of a very few days. MR. EVANS: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. Is the honourable minister not concerned in this matter that considerable confusion and perhaps disruption in the planning process may occur, at least with regard to this aspect of the winter games because there is a considerable amount of planning that has to be done and therefore there is some urgency in this matter. MR. SHERMAN: I would have been concerned, Mr.

Speaker, had I not been in touch with the Winter Games Committee itself and, as I suggested to the honourable member, the decision is going to be made very very shortly. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Leader of the Opposition. MR. SCHREYER: Mr.

Speaker, to the Minister of Northern Affairs, perhaps by way of a more precise or specific question: As regards the ad hoe grouping, or committee that has been established in Thompson to try to conceptualize, bring forward concrete proposals for alternative employment, to whatever degree, can the minister indicate if anyone from the Public Utilities Board or the Energy Council, or Science Research Council has been seconded to that committein order to look closely at prospects of alternative energy manufacture in that area? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Northern Affairs. MR. MacMASTER: No, they haven't.

MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Selkirk. MR. PAWLEY: Mr. Speaker, and I realize it is a very short period of time, but I wonder if the Honourable the Minister of Health can provide me with an answer to thequestion I took this morning in connection with Group 189? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Health. MR. SHER MAN: Unfortunately not yet, Mr. Speaker, but I want to assure the honourable member that I am investigating the question, and I'll produce the answer for him just as quickly as I can. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Elmwood. MR. DOERN: Mr.

Speaker, I want to direct a question to the Minister of Health concerning the Winter Games and ask him whether he recognizes that some moneys have al ready been expended and information disseminated concerning the site that was designated for skiing through advertising and mailings, and if this is now spread throughout the general public. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Health. MR. SHERMAN: Yes, I recognize that, Mr. Speaker. MR.

DOERN: I would then ask the minister if a decision is made to relocate or change the siteof the Winter Games in terms of the skiing component, whether the government would be prepared to reimburse the people for these expenditures already made MR. SHERMAN: Well, Mr. Speaker, that's a hypothetical question. No such decision has been made. If it were made, then we would have to deal with the substance of my honourable friend's question at that time. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Northern Affairs. MR. MacMASTER: Yes, Mr.

Speaker, to answer two questions that were asked me over the lasl couple of days, one from the Honourable Member for Rupertsland. I believe the question was: "Hae there been a great influx of requests for timber rights or permits? "T here hasn't been -that's the answer to that question. To the Member for The Pas, he asked if fishing was in fact taking place in Cedar Lake, Easterville and the answer is: "Yes, it is." MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for St. Vital. MR. D. JAMES WALDING: Thank you Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Honourable Minister o Health.

A few days ago, he undertook to look into the circumstances surrounding the discharge of 1 patient from Misericordia Hospital -has he yet completed that inquiry? 596 s t d e , f a

Monday, December 12, 1977 mr. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Health. MR. SHEAN: No, it's not completed yet, Mr. Speaker. As the honourable member is aware, he and I discussed this subject subsequent to the occasion on which he asked the question, and I will get back to him just as quickly as I have a report. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Selkirk. MR. PAWLEY: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Honourable the Attorney-General.

Can the Honourable Attorney-General assure the House as he did in the instance of Alexander Kasser, that steps are continuing insofar as the prosecution and the placing of trial of the Swiss principals who were involved in the Churchill Forest Industry fiasco? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Attorney-General. MR. MERCIER: Sir, there's been no change in the direction of these proceedings since October 24. MR. SPEAKER: Orders of the Day, the Honourable Member for Brandon East. MR. EVANS: Yes, Mr.

Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Industry and Commerce, and ask the minister if he could help clarify a matter pertaining to a statement that he made regarding the current freeze on MDC operations. The minister referred to theavailability of theFederal Business Development Bank funding. There seemed to be an inference that there was increased funding available to Manitoba business. Can the minister clarify this matter by advising the House whether he has been informed ... MR. SPEAKER: I believe that question was asked this morning. MR. EVANS: No, I don't think so. MR.

SPEAKER: Orders of the Day. The Honourable Member for Wellington. MR. BRIAN CORRIN: My question is for the Attorney-General, Mr. Speaker. Will the Attorney General be implementing the recent proposal of the president of the Provincial Judges' Association and place the administration of the provincial judges' courts under the control of the judiciary? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Attorney-General. MR. MERCIER: Mr. Speaker, Sir, that report is presently being reviewed. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Wellington with a supplementary. MR.

CORRIN: Yes, might I ask the Honourable Attorney-General when the review might be expected to be completed, and when a report will be filed in this respect. MR. MERCIER: I can't answer that question, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Finance. MR. CRAIK: Mr. Speaker, I was going to comment on a question placed by the Leader of the Opposition regarding, I think, wood gasification program, one aspect of which was being looked at in the Thompson area, and I think his question to the Minister ofNo rthern Affairs was in that connection.

I want to just point out, for his own information, that the wood gasification program is continuing on. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Leader of the Opposition. MR. SCHREYER: Well, Mr.

Speaker, since that has been mentioned specifically by the Minister of Finance, I should like to ask, although this may seem in contradiction of the reply by the Minister of Northern Affairs, if the Minister of Finance indicates that more work is being done with respect to the program, and the hopefully practical RND, whether this is being related to the efforts atThompson with respect to the bringing forward of tangible alternatives of employment. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Finance. MR. CRAIK: They're related, Mr. Speaker, the two programs that were under way are related.

As far as the immediate employment is concerned, that remains a question mark, but certainly on the longer term it remains a potential. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Leader of the Opposition. 597

Monday, December 12, 1977 MR. SCHREYER: Well, Mr. Speaker, uhis is not a supplementary, although it is perhaps related.

That is to ask the Minister of Finance in his capacity as minister attending at the Energy Conference, whether, given the fact that in Canada for the past few years there uas been, however unsatisfactory, there has been consultation with respect to the setting from time to time of price levels of oil and natural gas, can the Minister indicate if he has or will be making efforts to attempt to bring forward somewhat the same kind of arrangements, or a better alternative, with respect to the pricing ofsuch ancillary products at the well-head such as propane, butane, pentane, etc., which at the present time is under no similar arrangemenf?

MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Finance. HON. DONALD W. CRAIK(Riel): Mr. Speaker, we haven't had occasion to deal with that aspect of it yet. MR. SCHREYER: Mr. Speaker, I anticipated that reply but perhaps the Minister would care to take this as notice. It deserves some pondering.

And that is whether or not Manitoba will be making representations to the appropriate places in an effort to bring into greater consistency the process of appraisal of pricing of crude oil and natural gas on the one hand and these other important enough ancillary petroleum products, particularly propane which has a direct bearing on such communities as Thompson, Churchill, The Pas, etc.? MR. CRAIK: Mr. Speaker, yes we will. It all ties into the total energy package picture, which we'll be, hopefully, issuing a report on on behalf of Manitoba.

As far as projections are concerned, probably not before about mid-summer of 1978. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Brandon East. MR. EVANS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wonder if the Minister of lndustry andCommerce can inform the House whether he has been advised by the Federal Business Development Bank that it is prepared to engage in a more generous lending policy to Manitoba business. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Industry and Commerce. MR. ROBERT (Bob) BAN MAN(La Verendrye): Mr.

Speaker, in reply to the firstquestion, and to this question, let me tell the honourable member opposite that Manitoba Development Corporation engaged in something like eight new loans over the last two years. Those loans were not based on the lender of last resort criteria and as a result we feel -with a close liaison with the FBDB -we can eliminate duplication of services and we feel from the first several meetings that we've had with them that that particular accommodation can be given to the business community in the province of Manitoba. MR. EVANS: Mr. Speaker, I wasn't referring to MDC activities.

I simply would like to ask a supplementary then to the Minister and ask him if he can advise us exactly in what way the Federal Business Development Bank is prepared to be more generous or more liberal in its lending policy now than it was six months ago, or a year ago, in what way and specifically how is it going to provide more funding to Manitoba business. MR. BAN MAN: Mr. Speaker, the main thrust of our particular approach in this area will be to have a closer liaison with the federal department from my department. MR. EVANS: A supplementary.

I note the desire to have a close liaison which is fine, but specifically, has the Minister been given any indication by the federal agency that it is prepared to adjust its lending policy so it would be more generous than it was say six months ago? MR. BAN MAN: Mr. Speaker, to reiterate what I said before, is that they have agreed that they will work very closely with us and any referrals that we have will be treated with the maximum despatch at their disposal. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Leader of the Opposition. MR. SCHREYER: Mr.

Speaker, I should like to give the Minister of Industry and Commerce an opportunity to clarify his reply by asking him whether he is, in effect, telling this House that he is fully expecting a significant increase in the level of Federal Business Development Bank lending in the province of Manitoba next year over this year? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of In dustry and Commerce. MR. BAN MAN: Mr. Speaker, the question originally raised this morning by the Member for lnkster 598

Monday, December 12 , 19 77 dealt with specifically the relationship as far as the Ma nitoba Development Corporation is concerned and that is what I � ave attempted to answer here today. MR. SCHREYER: Mr . Speaker, I am merely asking whether the Min ister of Indu stry feels that he has sufficient information or groun ds to anticipate a sign ificant, as opposed to marginal, change in the level of FBDB, the successor to the lOB, FBDB level of lending in Man itoba.

Now it is not a satirical .. que stion; the impl ication of the reply is that there is; and I' m asking the Minis ter if in fact that is what he wants to confirm. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Mi nister of Industry and Commerce. MR. BAN MAN: Mr . Speaker, it is our position that we hope the entrepreneurs that requir e investment capital or requir e fina ncing in the province will definitely avail themselves of some of that. Now I can't say, defin itely project any figu res as to the number of people who will apply for loans but we hope that will be a fair number. MR.

SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Lac du Bon net. MR. SAMUE L USKIW: I wonder, Mr . Speaker, whether the Mini ster of Industry would clar ify his statement in reply to a question jus t a few moments ago, when he indicated that they are going back to a pol icy of loans only to those applicants who have been refused, in other words loans of last resort. Is the Min ister confirmin g that that is now the pol icy of the MDC? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Mi nister of Indus try and Commerce. MR. BAN MAN: Mr. Speaker, ! think the member should be listening a li ttle more attentively.

I never said that, I just said that the MOC, over the last num ber of years, had entered the commercial lending field, it was no longer a lender of last resort and in those last two years of carrying on that particular function there were something in the neighbourhood of seven or eight new loans made over·a two-year period. MR. USKIW: Can the Mini ster tell the House whether indeed the MOC is a lender of last resort atthe present time? MR. BAN MAN: Mr . Speaker, if the member would have been li stening throughout the session, the MOC at present is not dealing with any loans. MR.

SPEAKER: The Honourable Me mber tor Selk irk. MR. PAWLE Y: Mr . Speaker, a question to the Honourable the Attorney-General. In view of the fact that we are now in the Chr istmas festivity season, does the Honourable Attorney-General intend to announce shortly the proclamation of the legisla tion dealing with the 12 -hour suspension of driving permits, of drivers under the infl uence of alcoholic beverages? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Me mber for Elmwood. Does the Honourable Member tor Selkir k want to restate his qu estion? MR.

PAWLEY: I would refer the honourable member to the legis lation passed last session dealing with 12 -hour suspension of driver li cences and wonder if the Honourable Attorney-General intends to proclaim that legislation. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Attorney-General. MR. MERC IER : Mr . Speaker, I can't proclaim any legis lation. I think it takes the ExecutiveCouncil to do that. I will have to accept the qu estion as notice. I believe the ALERT program that is normally conducted by the City of Winni peg Pol ice Department and the RCMP has al ready started or will shortly start.

I will have to accept as notice the rest of the question. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Elmwood. MR. DOERN: Mr . Speaker, I wanted todir ectaq uestion to the Minis terof l ndustry andComm erce. A week ago I asked him whether he would look into the financial picture of Morden Fine Foods to determine whether there had been any improvement over the past six weeks. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Min ister of Industry and Commerce. MR. BAN MAN: Mr .

Speaker, at that time or maybe after that, I mentioned in reply to qu estions from the Member for Inkster that I would be adopting the same type of criteria he set with regard to the reporting ofC rown corporations. I do n't intend to report to the House on the dail y activities of different Crown corporations. 599

Monday, December 12, 1977 MR. DOERN: Well, Mr. Speaker, I assume then that if there is no marked improvement in the financial picture of Morden Fine Foods that the government will, in fact, either sell the plant or close it. MR. BAN MAN: Mr. Speaker, the member, in his own words, is assuming things. I don't intend to report to the Legislature on the daily operations of that particular company as the previous member who was in charge of that particular jurisdiction did.

So, I would just tell the member that in the spring session when the Economic DevelopmentCommittee meets we will be tabling the financial statements of the different companies and he can ask questions at that time. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Elmwood with a final question. MR. DOE RN: Mr. Speaker, I would ask the minister whether his government and his department has undertaken any new vigorous initiatives on behalf of Morden Fine Foods to offset the loss in sale of our policy of preferential buying. MR. BAN MAN: Mr.

Speaker, I understand that the sales force as well as the board of directors of MDC are constantly looking for new markets and looking for prospective buyers. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Transcona. MR. WILSON PARASIUK: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the First Minister. Does Mr. Conrad Riley, the private sector co-chairman of the task force, report directly to him or to the minister responsible for the task force? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable First Minister. MR. LYON: Mr. Speaker, I would have thought that the terminology used to describe the two co chairmen was self-explanatory.

They are co-chairmen who report to the Management Committee. MR. PARASIUK: Mr. Speaker, in light of the fact that it is very important for a legislature to determine ministerial responsibility for staff, even $1 a year staff, it is important for us to know who the co-chairman reports directly to as a minister and I ask him to therefore clarify whether in fact the co chairman is reporting directly to the minister responsible for the task force or to himself? MR. LYON: Mr.

Speaker, I would have thought it was patently clear to everyone that the co chairmen of the task force report to Management Committee, and for my honourable friend's further elucidation of ministerial responsibility in Management Committee, Management Committee is chaired by the First Minister of the province. MR. PARASIUK: A final supplementary. Does his answer then mean that the minister responsible for the task force has a lower status than other ministers or that Mr.

Riley has a higher status than other senior civil servants like deputy ministers or chairmen of agencies who report through their minister to Cabinet or to the First Minister, MR. SPEAKER: Orders of the Day. The Honourable Member for St. Vital. MR. WALDING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister without Portfolio reporting for the task force. Could he inform the House whether his task force will be reviewing the operations of the Manitoba Telephone System and if so when will the review begin? MR. SPIVAK: The answer is yes and it's begun. MR. WALDING: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker, as a supplementary, may I ask the minister whether the chairman and general manager of Manitoba Telephone System, who is also a member of the task force, is on that reviewing group for MTS? MR. SPIVAK: Mr. Speaker, the review teams have available to them the members of the task force. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Selkirk. MR. PAWLEY: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Honourable Minister without Portfolio responsible for the task force. Will the task force then be examining the operations of the Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation? MR. SPIVAK: Yes, Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Wellington and before I recognize him may I inforrr him that there are two minutes left. 600 o a m

Monday, December 12, 1977 MR. CORRIN: Mr. Speaker, my question is as well addressed to the Honourable Minister without Portfolio responsible tor the task force.Could the honourable minister, in view of his remarks that the task force is now at work and the review committees are now accordingly in the field, could he now advise us of the names of the members that constitute the various review committees? MR. SPIVAK: Mr. Speaker, I have already indicated not all the members of the review teams have been selected nor those who are even in operation at the present time.

In due course the names will be brought forward. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member tor St. Vital. MR. WALDING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister reporting tor the task force. Can he give the House the names of the members of that task force group who are reviewing MTS operations? MR. SPIVAK: Mr. Speaker, the answer at this present time is no. I have already indicated in due course they will be given. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member tor Brandon East. MR. EVANS: A supplementary to the Minister responsible tor the task force.

Will he undertake to make a public statement as to the key members of the task force, both private and public sector, when that task force or task force subcommittees have been finalized? MR. SPIVAK: Mr. Speaker, I have already indicated to the House that the members of the review teams and those who will be working will be known. ln due course that will be announced. Some otthe information is now being gathered. I should mention particularly in reference to the Honourable Member tor St.

Vital to the questions that were put, there is a review team that will be dealing with all, not all but the major Crown corporations of which Manitoba Telephone System is one. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member tor St. Johns. MR. SAUL CHERNIACK: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Honourable the Minister without Portfolio who is partially reporting tor the task force-partly responsible-to ask him that since the Telephone System is already being reviewed by a task force team, is he saying that he does not know the members of that task force or is he refusing to tell us who they are? MR.

SPIVAK: Mr. Speaker, I will now try to at least provide the answer and possibly impress the Honourable Member tor St. Johns with the very obvious thing, that not all members of the review teams have been selected but work has already commenced in the course of trying to review the Crown corporations of which the Manitoba Telephone System is part. MR.

CHERNIACK: Could the honourable member, since he's dealing with large sums of money and organiz ation of the people of Manitoba, could he clarity tor us how it is expected that a review is taking place of the Telephone System when the task force team reviewing the telephone system is not yet fully appointed? MR. SPIVAK: Mr. Speaker, there are a number of people who tor a variety of reasons are not in a position to accept responsibility and who have postponed their involvement tor a variety of different reasons. When all of the members have in tact been appointed as I've indicated their names will be known. MR.

CHERNIACK: Does the Honourable the Minister without Portfolio partly responsible tor reporting on the task force inform us whether it is expected then that the members yet to be appointed of the task force on public utilities will have to rubber-stamp the work already done by other people who are already investigating them? MR. SPIVAK: Mr. Speaker, I only wish the Member tor St. Johns would listen. First of all, there is no review team on public utilities. That's his bias and his prejudice and his perspective.

I said there's a review team on Crown corporations which is very different than what the Honourable Member tor St. Johns had suggested. Mr. Speaker, the other thing implicit in what he's saying warrants this kind of reply. No one is rubber-stamping anything. We are not operating as the fo=mer government did. BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE MR. SPEAKER: Orders of the Day. The Honourable Member for Rock Lake. MR. HENRY J. EINARSON: Mr. Speaker, may I ask leave of the House to replace the name of Mr. Doug Gourlay for that of Mrs. Norma Price on the Committee of Law Amendments. 601

Monday, December 12, 1977 MR. SPEAKER: Under Orders of the Day, is it the wish of the House to adjourn the House at this time? HON. WARNER H. JORGENSON, Government House Leader( Morris): If you will leave theChair now we will proceed to Law Amendments Committee and the House will reconvene at the call of the Chair. MR. SPEAKER: I am leaving the Chair to return at the call of the Committee. 602

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	31-1-22a
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	31st 1st hansardpdf 22a.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	3514b4fb19264451490dd9b4fc06e83d46e62cd0

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (pdf).