VOL. 2 PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD: 3:00 P.M. - 6:00 P. M . ~VEDNESDAY, UAY 18, 1983 NO. 43

May 18, 1983 Tape No. 2274 The House met at 3:00 P.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : Order, please! MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS MR. GOUDIE: Mr. Speaker. JV - 1 MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development. MR. GOUDIE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to advise the general public that government will be enforcing the regulations regarding sod and topsoil removal again this Summer in the St. John's Agriculture Development area.

The agriculture regulations are designed to preserve the agricultural land base: therefore, activities which destroy, remove or degrade the soil resource are not permitted. The typical pasture sod contains a considerable amount of soil and plant nutrients regardless of how carefully it is removed. Tests by the Department indicate that sods contain between 60 to 150 tons per acre of topsoil, organic matter and plant nutrients. Sod and topsoil removal therefore depletes an irreplaceable natural resource and reduces the capability of the land to produce agricultural food commodities.

Because topsoil takes hundreds of years to form and the soils around St. John's are very thin in any case, sod and topsoil removal is unacceptable. I wish to advise that failure to comply with the regulations could result in prosecutions. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Torngat Mountains. 4BSO

May 18, 19 83 Tape No . 2274 JV - 2 MR. WARREN: Mr . Speaker, if anyone needs a lecture on duties and responsibilities it is a minister who ~akes such trivial statements as the hon. minister just made. I would suggest to the hon . House Leader (Mr. Marshall) that he should read Beauchesne concerning the ~ules of parliament and probabl y he could come up with guidelines for Ministerial Statements. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Aylward): Opposition. MR. NEARY: ministers to follow in reading ORAL QUESTIONS Mr . Speaker. The hon. the Leader of the Mr .

Speaker, first of a.ll let me say that this morning I wrote a very long letter of apology to trr. Ian Langlands , Chairman of the Fisheries Council of Canada,in connection with the unfortunate lapse of judgment of the t-1inister of Fisheries (Mr . Morgan ) in this Province, whom I know now mu st regret his words. I feel that the hon. gentleman is not a true racist but the matter is not going to go away, Mr. Speaker. Would the Premier tell the House if he has dealt with this matter , is he in the process of dealing with this matter or does he intend to ignore it? 4851

c May 18, 1983 Tape 2275 PK - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : The han. Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I indicated to this House my position on that some time ago. My position remains as it was then, Mr. Speaker. MR. WARREN: MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: a supplementary. MR. NEARY: Shame! ~rr. Speaker, a supplementary. The han. Leader of the OppositQon Mr. Speaker, we in the Liberal caucus would like to table this letter for the benefit and the information of han. gentlemen and for the media. Now would the han. gentleman tell us what his position is on this matter, Mr. Speaker?

Or is he aware that the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) will not be able to function adequately within the area of marketing, international conferences, national conferences and so forth? The credibility of the han. gentleman has been so severely battered and bruised and damaged that it will be impossible for him to function efficiently and adequately when attending these meetings in future, Mr. Speaker. What does the han. gentleman have to say about that? MR. SPEAKER: The han. Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I do not know,but I think the Leader of the Opposition (Mr.

Nearyl was here when I made my position abundantly clear some time ago, and I am sure the han. Leader of the Opposition is aware of that position. I am sure that he does not want me to take up the Question Period repeating what I had said earlier. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. The han. Leader of the Opposition, a supplementary question. MR. NEARY: To my knowledge, Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman said he would take the matter under 48J2

Ma:::: 18, 1983 Tape 2275 PK - 2 MR. NEARY: advisement. :rhe matter has been under advisement now for over a week and a half ten days. Now would the han. gentleman tell us what the position is now? Would he care to restate his position? MR. SPEAKER (Aylward): The han. Premier . PREMIER PECKFORD: No, Mr. Speaker 8 I have my position clear and it remains the same as it was a week or two ago. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: a supplementary question. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. The han. Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Speaker, this is the fourth time now the Premier has defended the Minister of Fisheries (Mr.

Morgan). Han. gent~emen will recall the Auditor General took the hon. minister to task when he was Minister of Transportation. MR. MARSHALL: order. MR. SPEAKER: President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: a speech in Question Period. MR, SPEAKER: Mr . Speaker, on a point of A point of order, the han. The han, gentleman is making Order, please! ~ did permit some

preamble when the han. Leader of the Opposition(~r. Neary) first introduced his question. I would request that he direct his question now to the appropriate minister. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speake;r, this is the fourth time that the han. Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) has been defended by the han. Premier for very serious and grave matters. 4B:J3

May 18, 1983 Tape No. 2276 SD - l MR. NEARY: Would the han. gentleman tell the House 1 when he took the matter under advisement 1 what steps then he took to deal with this situation? MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : The han. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I have indicated to the han. member on a number of occasions,and in the other question that he just asked, that my position is clear, I made my position clear some time ago 1 and I do not intend to pursue the matter any further -with the han. Leader of the Opposition (Hr. Neary). MR. NEARY: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: . Supplementary, the hon.

Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the han. gentleman says ne made his position clear. Nobody in the House or nobody outside the House knows what the han. gentleman's position is. The hon. gentleman merely said in this House in reply to some questioning some time ago that he would take the matter under advisement. What is the hon. gentleman's position on this matter? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, it is the same question and I can only give the same answer. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. The han. Leader of the Mr.

Speaker, we can only assume the hon. gentleman has no position, that he does indeed intend for the fourth time to defend the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan). So 1 therefore, Mr. Speaker, I hope that the letter that we wrote, we had the courage to write MR :·MARsHALL: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. 4 B S tf

May 18, 1983 Tape No. 2276 SD - 2 MR. SPEAKER(Aylward): Order, please! A point of order, the han. President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, the han. gentleman does not seem to understand that either he is in Question Period. The fact of the matter is that this is Question Period and the han. gentleman is making a speech. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! To that point of order 1 I would ask the hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) to direct his question to the appropriate minister. The han. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Well, Mr.

Speaker, in view of the fact that the Opposition have taken it upon themselves to write a letter of apology to the Fishery Council of Canada, would the hon. gentleman indicate if, as head of the adrninistration,and the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) was speaking for the han. gentleman and speaking for the President of the Council (Mr. Marshall) and speaking for the ministers, and representing the Queen, when .. . -- . he spoke down at that Fishery Council meeting.

Would the han. gentleman indicate if it is his intention to follow the example set by the Opposition and that is to send out a letter of apology on behalf of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador to the Fishery Council of Canada and to all the delegates who attended that international conference? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition and the Opposition are free to do as they wish on any major issuetand it is quite within their right to do it. I will do and this administration, this government, 48 ~ J,.. Uu

~ May 18, 1983 Tape No . 2276 so - 3 PREMIER PECKFORD: will do what it intends to do. When we do anything we will let the hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) know and the H.ouse know and the people of Newfoundland know. So, you know ,, the Leader o£ the Opposition can take whatever position he likes, that is quite within his right to do. I am not going to argue with the Leader of the Opposition's position, that is quite all right with me. MR . NEARY: ~tr. Speaker, a supplementary . ·-· ---- · -· ....... . 4556

May 18, 1983 MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : a supplementary question. MR. NEARY: Tape No. 2277 NM - 1 The han. Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Speaker, let me ask the han. the Premier if he thinks that the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) can function adequately now when dealing with the people who market our fish, people in the international markets, people on the national fisheries scene.

All these --people from all over the world who attended this conference, does he think now that his Minister of Fisheries can function to his full capacity as a result of this distasteful thing that happened down at the Fishery Council of Canada, or does he think he should be replaced and somebody else should do the job? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I have made my position clear on the matter and I have no more to say on it. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: MR. TULK: What is your position? The han. member for Fogo. Mr.

Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Fisheries, but in his absence I will ask it to the Premier. I am referring,of course,to the notice of layoffs that has been given by Fishery Products to some 750 plant workers 1 as I understand it, at Catalina, Marystown, and Trepassey. AN_ _HON. MEMBER: Eigh~ hundred and fifty. MR. TULK: Some 750 or 800, whatever. Would the Premier tell the House if he was aware of these layoffs before today's announcements? MR. SPEAKER: I just heard about it.

I just got in town a few minutes ago, I just drove in from my constituency, but I will take the matter under advisement and have an answer for the han. member before the day is out. 4857

May 18, 1983 Tape No. 2277 NM - 2 MR. TULK: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (A ylward): The hon. member for Fogo, a supplementary question. MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, I understand that one of the reasons that has been given by Fishery Products is the reason of fish supply. I would like to ask the Premier if indeed that is the case, if it is a case of fish supply,or is it a case of what we heard the Minister of Fisheries (.Mr.

Morgan) announce last week and say in this House, and I believe say outside of the House, that indeed Fishery Products may indeed be very close to bankruptcy, or may be unable to pay their bills? ~e they now trying to save those funds through layoffs or what is the situation with Fishery Products at this time with regard to that statement? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: I will get the information for the hon. member and let him know before the day is out, Mr. Speaker. MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Fogo. MR. TULK: Mr.

Speaker, let me ask the Premier another supplementary question that he can perhaps again get the :answer for if he does not already know. In view of the restructuring negotiations that are presently taking place in Ottawa whereby we all hope in this Province that the problems being experienced by the deep-sea fishery will be resolved, will the Premier now approach Fishery Products asking them to see that those layoff notices are withdrawn until such time as restructurin~ has taken place? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Premier. 4858

May 18, 1983 Tape No. 2277 PREMIER PECKFORD: tve have been doing all in our power along those lines and we 11lill continue to do all in our power to see that no jobs are lost, Mr . Speaker. MR . TULI< : ~ffi . SPEAKER (Aylward): supplementary question. MR . TULK : Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. The hon. member for Fogo 1 a Mr . Speaker, a couple of days NM - 3 ago I believe, three or four days ago, Fishery Products were bragging about a $100 ,000 profit that they had made.

I would ask the Premier, in view of the notices of layoffs that they have given to those 800 people, if indeed he would perhaps appoint a group of auditors, or a firm of accountants to look into the financial operations of Fishery Products to 4559

May 18,1983 Tape No. 2278 ah-1 MR. TULK: see if the company is indeed making a profit,or to see if it is indeed gouging perhaps the people of this Province as fish companies in this Province have been known to do before. Are they now bragging about a gouging that took place or are they really making a profit or just what is the situation with them? It seems strange to me, Mr. Speaker, that where you have a layoff of 800 corning up that a company that just recently .. , • • J" announced it had made a profit now seems to - -------- be saying, well,we are not going to put on a second shift.

Would the Premier investigate that as well? MR.SPEAKER (Aylward): PREMIER PECKFORD: MR.LUSH: MR. SPEAKER: MR.LUSH: The hon. the Premier. Yes, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, The hon. member for Terra Nova. Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr.Dinn). SOME HON.MEMBERS: MR.SPEAKER: MR.LUSH: Oh, oh! Order, please! The hon. member for Terra Nova. Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Labour and Manpower and it relates to the Ocean Ranger enquiry that is presently going on. Throughout that enquiry, Mr.

Speaker, the matter of the government's local preference policy keeps cropping up and not in a very favourable ~ay. I think in the present sitting now senior personnel from ODECO indicated that there was great pressure applied from the provincial government to hire untrained, unqualified, unskilled, personnel. I wonder if the minister could comment on this very, very , important issue? MR.SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Labour and Manpower. 46CO

May 18,1983 Tape No. 2278 ah-2 MR. DINN : Mr . Speaker, as I have indicated many times here in the House,we have a registry that indicates the qualifications of Newfoundlanders that was supplied to all companies. It is the responsibility of the company to check these qualifications to make sure that they are hiring qualified people , and under no circumstances does my department,or anyone else in government, force anybody to hire any unqualified people. MR.SPEAKER (Aylward) : The hon. member for Terra Nova . MR.LUSH : Mr.

Speaker, again the senior official,before the hearing a couple of days ago, said that there was an implied threat from the government to the effect that if the company did not hire 48G1

Hay 18, 1983 Tape 2279 EC - 1 MR. LUSH: Newfoundlanders that the government would cancel their licence. Mr. Speaker, could the minister comment on that? Coming from a very senior official of ODECO, could the minister please indicate whether or not this is an accurate assessment, that this is an accurate statement by officials of ODECO? MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : The hon. the Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker, I am certainly willing to await the outcome of the Ocean Ranger inquiry to see what the results are and what the recommendations are.

I can assure the han. member that no company has been pressured into hiring any unqualified people. MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the member for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: It is all very well for the minister to say that he is going to await the final results of the inquiry, wait until it is carried on to its logical conclusion,but, Mr. Speaker, these are serious accusations, very serious accusations, and certainly the minister now has the opportunity to shed some light on these accusations and certainly allevi~te and allay the fears of the people of this Province. ___ ,Again, Mr.

Speaker, this is a very serious accusation when a senior official of ODECO would say that his company was threatened with having their licences '- - suspended. So_can the min~~ter _ in~~cate, Mr. Sp~aker - rt is a simple,straightforward question-whether there was indeed a threat issued, whether ODECO was threatened with losing their permits to operate if they did not take these Newfoundlanders. It is a simple,straightforward question and one that needs to be answered. 4662

May 18, 1983 MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : and Manpower. MR. DINN: Tape 2279 EC - 2 The hon. the Minister of Labour Mr. Speaker, I am surprised the hon. member does not realize that I have shed a great deal of light on the question the hon. member asked when I said that no company operating in the offshore of Newfoundland has been forced to hire any unqualified people~ ~hey are simply given a registry where qualifications are listed, and it is the responsibility of the company to see to it that these people have the qualifications for which they have listed qualifications.

So it seems to me that is a great deal of light for me to shed on what the hon. member's concerns are. MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, it certainly seems rather strange that this matter should keep cropping up all the time in the hearings. Yesterday was not the first time,they have kept cropping up continually whenever officials of ODECO are questioned. So my final question to the minister is, Were there any pressures of any kind applied or exercised with the companies in terms of taking on unqualified Newfoundlanders?

It does not necessarily have to be threats. Were there letters written ·~ were there phone calls made, were there ambassadors _sent 4BG3

Hay 18, 1983 Tape No. 2280 HJ - 1 MR. LUSH: to apply pressure unnecessarily on these companies to take unqualified personnel? MR. DINN: MR. SPEAKER {Aylward) : and Manpower. MR. DINN: Hr. Speaker . The hon. the Minister of Labour Mr. Speaker, I am not really overly concerned what an official of ODECO says at a Royal Commission of Enquiry. We were here in the House only last year or the year before when the hon. the Leader of the Opposition presented to this House an affidavit from one Andy Davidson,and it was proven later on that it had no foundation in fact at all, that the information was unreliable.

So I am willing to await the outcome of the Ocean Ranger ~nquiry. MR. HISCOCK: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Eagle River. l·1R. HISCOCK: My question, Mr. Speaker, is to the Minister of Transportation {Mr. Dawe). Could the hon. the Minister of Transportation inform this House if the road that is being constructed from Hary's Harbour to Lodge Bay nee ds a bridge across the Lodge Bay River and if this bridge has ueen purchased,seeing that 95 per_=~~~ of the communi ty lives on the other side where the school and the community hall,etc. ; are located? MR. DA'VTE: Mr. Speaker . MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation. MR. DA'VTE: Mr. Speaker, the situation to which the member for Eagle River (rrr. Hiscock) refers is one that was realized by this Province when initially it applied for funding under the Labrador Subsidiary Agreement and subsequently the transportation aspect of it 1and there 4 B 5 It

May 18, 1983 Tape No. 2280 MJ - 2 MR. DANE: were considerably more funds asked for in that initial agreement than were subsequently issued. And the fact of the matter is that for that particular

section the funding that was available was only enough to complete the road link to the liarbour. There i.e:; obviously necessary work to be done additional to that, part of which is a bridge to cross the water and the other i·s about a two mile stretch of road on the other side to connect the community. v7e are attempting and have been attempting to get the federal government to expand that programme,especially as it relates to the transportation

section of it,not only to complete that particular

section of road but also to complete the Red Bay

section of the road to an acceptable standard. If that becomes a reality,then certainly the necessary road work will be undertaken. MR. HISCOCK: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Avlward) : The han. the member for Eagle River, a supplementary. MR. HISCOCK: With regard to this road, the road itself is only six miles. I have stated before I can understand where we would go for . funds for _~he_ Tr _ans-Labrador Highway, but I am a little bit amazed that we as a Province have to go to the federal government and ask for money to build a six mile road. Can the minister inform this House, with the Coastal Labrador DREE agreement 1'irhich will not run out until 1985, will 4865

May 18, 1983 Tape 2281 PK - 1 MR. HISCOCK: the people of Lodge Bay have to wait until a new agreement is signed or will the provincial .. ~ .. government putting this bridge there itself? MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : The hon. Minister of Transportation. MR. DAWE: Mr. Speaker, I have already indicated that to say. we are only talking about a six mile piece of road is completely irrelevant to the situation.

We are talking about a transportation sector of a Labrador agreement which involves a considerable amount of road work, and that six mile stretch of road happens only to hook into that major work that is being done on the Straits. So it is a package, it is a programme that was designed to help alleviate some of the isolation o£ . a number of communities on the Straits of Labrador rather than to become involved in a resettlement programme that was a popular opinion some time ago, and fortunately is no longer a position of the government in power. SOME HON. MEMBER,S: Hear, hear! MR.

DAWE: The situation is that we have continuously indicated that the funding available to do the necessary transportation work in that particular area is not sufficient, and we have subsequently consistently approached the federal government to expand that agreement q~ continue on with the agreemen~ either with funding after the present agreement expired or to in fact include additional funding in the present agreement 6o -·-· that particular

section of road and that particular communit y 'can be hooked up to a consistent network. MR. HISCOCK: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Eagle River. 4BG6

May 18, 1983 Tape No. 2281 PK - 2 MR. HISCOCK: Mr. Speaker, the children who have to go to school on the other side, in the Spring and in the Fall these children are put in a boat, a rope is attached and the boat hauled across the ice so that it will not go through the ice when the thawing begins. Is the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe) saying that now the y have to wait for the federal government to get enough money to construct this bridge, that we, as a Province with over $2 billion being spent this year, cannot find $200,000 for this bridge? MR. SPEAKER (Ay lward) : Transportation. MR. DAWE: The han.

Minister of Mr. Speaker, we have always been ready, as indicated by the agreement that is presently in place, to put in our share . As it relates to the construction of roads in Labrador, we just recently reached agreement in principle for a Trans-Labrador Highway where the Province is putting in its share, a substantial share, an increase of 5 percentage points over a previously agreed upon transportation network in Labrador. We are still willing to put in our share, Mr.

Speaker, and we will be continuing to encourage the federal government to live up to what we consider to be a substantial amount of their responsibility in making sure that the communities in Labrador have the same kind of transportation opportunities as other people in the Province. MR. SPEAKER: Before I introduce the hon. member, with your permission I would like to welcome to our galleries seventeen students from Renfrew, Ontario, 4BG7

May 18, 1983 Tape No. 2282 ah - l MR. SPEAKER (Aylward): together with their host students from Gander. The students from Ontario are here on an exchange visit and it gives me great pleasure to welcome them to our galleries. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: I am also delighted to welcome to our galleries sixteen students and two teachers, Bernice Pearce and Kevin Snook from Frampton Elementary from Monkstown in the district of Burin-Placentia West. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER: MR. TULK: Hear, hear! The han. member for Fogo. Mr.

Speaker, I would like to ask the Premier a supplementary, if I could, to my original question, and it comes out of his answer. I asked originally if he was aware before the impending layoffs were announced by Fishery Products in Marystown, Catalina and Trepassey. I think the Premier said to me that he had just got back from his district and would attempt to get me the answers. The question that still remains, Mr.

Speaker, is is the Premier now telling me that he was not aware of this before he went to his district, or is he telling me that he is not now aware of it, or is he telling me that we have a situation here, similar to other companies in this Province they have laid off workers in very essential industries and have told them afterwards? Just what is the Premier saying with that answer? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I told the han. member that I would get all the information concerning the situation for him and for the House before the day is out and I will keep that undertaking.

MR. TULK: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. 4868

May 18 ,19 83 Tape No. 22 82 ah-2 MR . NEARY : Mr . Spe aker . MR.SPEAKER (Aylward): A supplementray question - The han. Leader of the Opposition. SOME HO.N.MEMBERS: Oh , oh ! MR. NEARY: Mr • Speaker, that question can be answered immediately. Now is the Premier refusing to answer the question? Obviously if the han. gentleman knew about it, if he had prior notice, he can answer the question right away. He does not have to go and look for the information. The hon. gentleman either knows about it or he did not know about it. Yes or no ·; it is as simple as that. MR.

SPEAKER: PREMIER PEC KFORD : The hon. the Premier. Mr . Speak er, I to ld the hon.mernbers that I will get all th.e information for them before the day is out and give them the information. MR.SPEAKER: The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR.NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the other day when we were discussing hiring for the Summer holiday period, seasonal workers for Summer employment, we 4E G9

May 18, 1983 Tape No. 2283 NM- 1 MR. NEARY: were told by hon. gentlemen there opposite that if we could come up with a case of where there was discrimination, where the policy of not what you know but who you know is being followed 1 that hon. gentlemen would look into it. So I am going to put this question to the Premier in connection with an assistant forest ranger who is being hired for Paddy's Pond. My understanding is that three names were submitted of young Newfoundlanders, students in the College of Trades and Technology Forestry course.

These three gentlemen were tested, met all the qualifications and their names were submitted to the Minister of Forest Resources and Lands (Mr. Power) • Mr. Speaker, is the han. gentleman aware that these names were not accepted by the minister but instead the han. gentleman sent back one of his own constituents,who was not qualified, to fill the job,who eventually had to be turned away? And then he sent back a second constituent. Now would the hon. gentleman tell the House is that the policy that is being followed by this administraton for hiring for Summer employment in this Province? MR. POWER: Mr.

Speaker, I rise on a point of privilege. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward): A point of privilege, the hon. Minister of Forest Resources and Lands. MR. POWER: Three persons have been interviewed. Nobody has been hired for the job. There are still interviews being done, recommendatins being taken, and in due course somebody very qualified will be hired for that job. MR. SPEAI<ER: To that point of privilege,I rule that there is no case for a point of privilege. The hon. the Premier. 4670

May 18, 1983 Tape No. 2283 NM- 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I just wanted to answer the question the hon. Leader of the Opposition {Mr. Neary) asked. I think the minister has now taken care of the situation. , I was not aware of it but I would be willing to look into it if the hon. Leader of the Opposition had given me the information. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : SOME H.ON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER: MR. NEARY: The hon. Leader of the Opposition. Oh, oh~ Order, please~ Mr. Speaker, all the Minister of Forest Resources and Lands (Mr. Power) did was to try to clear his own skirts.

I am ~~king the han. gentl~man,in the interest of fair play to see that justice is done in the hiring for Summer employment, if he would look into this particular case of the hiring of an assistant forest ranger down at Paddy's Pond. would the han. gentleman thoroughly investigate that case and see if the practice of the Public Service Commission is being followed in this Province. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, this is one of the problems the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) has.

The Minister of Forest Resources and Lands just answered his question saying that nobody has been hired. There was an allegation made by the Leader of the Opposition that somebody had been hired, now we have 4671

May 18, 1983 Tape 2284 EC - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: found that the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) is wrong in his allegation. And I am sure the Minister of Forest Resources and Lands (Mr. Power) is not misleading the House. If there was somebody hired, the hon. the minister would have said somebody was hired. So obviously, the Leader of the Opposition is asking questions from false information. And, you know, that is the story. I am sure that the minister, as he said, will ensure that a Newfoundlander is hired for that job as we will for all jobs that are available this Summer, Mr. Speaker, no problem there.

MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Avlward): Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. The hon. the Leader of the Opposition, a supplementary question. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I did not say that the job had been filled, I said the minister is trying to manoeuver one of his constituents into the job. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the recommendations have been made, three names have been submitted to the minister. MR. TULK: That is right. MR·. NEARY: But the minister will not acknowledge these three names, who are qualified people who passed their test,and is now trying to manoeuver one of his constituents in.

SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. MARSHALL: MR. SPEAKER: Oh, oh! On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Order, please! The hon. the President of the Council on a point of order. MR. MARSHALL: This House is being pervaded by the hon. gentleman giving his own impressions, spreading 4872

May 18, 1983 Tape 2284 EC - 2 MR. MARSHALL: rumours, casting imputations, casting innuendoes. When questions are answered, he is not satisfied, he has to continue to cast the innuendo , and he is out of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward): To that point of order, I rule there is a point of order. I would ask the hon. the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) if he would put his question to the appropriate minister. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the question I am putting to the Premier is, will the Premier pay particular attention to this particular position?

Because I think it will be an indication to the hon. gentleman of what is happening regarding the employment of people for the Summer holidays. Would the hon. gentleman tell the House what the overall picture, what the overall policy is for hiring students and others for Summer employment? Is it left up to the ministers' discretion or do they have a procedure that can be followed to see that fair play and British justice will be done by the 500 people who will be hired for Summer employment? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I do not know if that was a question or a speech.

It seems like the Leader of the Opposition wants to put all of his other members down, will not give them a chance to ask a question. I do not know why the Leader of the Opposition would know so much about trying to make allegations of hanky-panky. The Leader of the Opposition, when he was ingovernment, never got involved in that kind of thing, Mr. Speaker. MR. HODDER: Answer the question. PREMIER PECKFORD: And why would the member for LaPoile even know anything about this, Mr. Speaker? Because when one looks at his record when he was a minister in the government, he was absolutely 4873

May 18, 1983 Tape No. 2285 SD - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: lily white, Mr. Speaker. Obviously what happens for Summer employment is that there are a whole range of people, a number of people, who apply and then the department chooses from the many, many people who apply. You know, that is the way it is done. Unfortunately, there are more applications than there are jobs and then decisions have to be made. But we will be and have been as fair as we can in the allocation of those jobs to individuals who are applying. We have been fair and we will continue to be fair, Mr. Speaker.

That is the policy of this administration, that we are honest, aboveboard, straight and fair, Mr. Speaker, and all his little innuendoes will get the Leader of the Opposition (.Mr. Neary) nowhere. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. PREMIER PECKFORD: That is the biggest thing we got in Question Period today now 1is whether there was an assistant forest ranger hired out at Paddy's Pond or not, Mr. Speaker. One would think that the han. members opposite would do their research and come into this House armed to the teeth with all kinds of substantial questions, Mr. Speaker. What do we get? Grade VI stuff.

The studen 'ts in the galleries must wonder what the Opposition do with all their time, do with their research assistants. I cannot understand it. I am waiting to hear some tough questions, Mr. Speaker. Come on, give us some tough questions. MR. SPEAKER (~ylward) : expired. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Order, please! Time for Question Period has Hear, hear! 4 0 "'71 U I •+

May 18, 1983 Tape No . 2285 so - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: ~- Speaker. I demand some tough questions, SOME HON. MEMBERS: ~. SPEAKER (Aylward): SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: Oh, oh. Order, please! Oh, oh. Order, please! I would like to re .mind hon. members on both sides of the Houf;le th.a.t it is impossible to carry on the business of the House when both sides are shouting back and forth at each other. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! 4B75

rfay 18, 1983 Tape No. 2286 MJ .-. 1 ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS FOR T-7HIC!i NOTICE HAS BEEN GIVEN MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEA.KER (Avlward) : The hon. the Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker, in answer to Question No. 112 on Order Paper No. 24 dated April 21 1 1983 asked ·by the hon. the member for Terra Nova (Mr. Lush), "To ask the Honourable the Minister of Labour and Manpower to lay upon the Table of the House the following information A list of the number of complaints waiting to be processed before the Labour Relations Board. '' Mr.

Speaker, the answer is that there are two complaints before the L~bour Relations Board which will be dealt with at today's board meet~ng, PRESENTING PETITIONS MR. HISCOCK: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon, the member for Eagle River. MR. HISCOCK: Mr. $peaker, I rise to present a petition on behalf of the residents of Norman Bay in Eastern Labrador. Norman Bay is a small community _of eleven or twelve families, they do not have any roads, they do not have any mail delivery, they do· not haye any electricity. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. HISCOCK: They only have a one room school Mr.

Speaker, with two teachers teaching in that ~ne classroom. It is not even as large as the common room that the government has on their side. The prayer of the petition is: 'We the residents of Norman Bay ask the Government o:t; Newfoundland and Labrador to install diesel power in Norman Bay. Each of us nm'l have to use our own small private gas generators.' 4876

May 18, 1983 Tape No . 2286 MJ - 2 MR . HISCOCK : Mr . Speaker , I have presented this petition in the House before , I have appeared before the Public Uti lities Board . The government subsidizes the Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro corporation , something like $20 million a year , and the final result is when Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro ask for a rate increase the Pl:blic Utilities Board approves it . But it must also be approved by Cabinet and any extra money going to Newfoundland and Lab ra dor Hydro has to come from this government .

So, th e rea son why I am presenting this petition here is becau se I am asking the government to find the necessary funds so that residents in Norman Bay and also the community near it, Pinsent Arm, can have electricity . The se people, Mr . Speak er, ar e only asking for the basic necessities of life . 4B77

.May 18, 1983 Tape 2287 PK - 1 MR. HISCOCK: They are asking for electricity, they are asking for an extra classroom for their school, they are asking for mail delivery, and they are also asking that Norman Bay be made a port of call by CN. This is the community about which, when I brought it up in the House in 1979, I got a note from the Minister of Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development (Mr. Goudie) asking where Norman Bay was. This government not only did not know then, but they still do not know where Norman Bay is.

I think that the way we are treating those people, those citizens of Newfoundland and Canada in that part of our Province, is a crime. It is a crime and it is a black mark, Mr. Speaker, on all of us in this House of Assembly, that we allow people to live with the same conditions as people did in the 17th and 18th century. We are celebrating our 400th anniversary, Mr. Speaker, and you would not know that we progressed in four hundred years. Here we can talk about a $63 ~illion agreement for Gros Marne Park, or a Trans-Labrador highway, or a new Marine Institute being built here in St.

John's, and yet we have people living in other parts of our Province who have two teachers in one classroom in a school that has no electricity. They had to close down the school early in the year because of the lack of heat and light. In these schools I also must point out, there is a small heater in the middle of the class­ room and if the fire ~arshal saw it - if there were over fifty students he would have to close the school but because there are less than fifty students he has no jurisdiction over it. It only has one exit.

I have written the Fire Commissioner on this, and he had an investigation done, but there is nothing 4673

May 18, 1983 Tape 2287 PK - 2 MR . HISCOCK: that can be done under the fire regulations. So I ask, Mr. Speaker, that this petition be tabled in th~s House of Assembly, given to the Premier, and also to the Minister of Energy (Mr. Dawe) with the direction that more money be allocated to Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro so that they can start installing electricity in the community of ~~ orman Bay. MR. SPEAKER (Ay lward }: MR. NEARY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The hon. Leader of the Opposition. Mr. Speaker, I was hoping that somebody on the benches there opposite would support this petition.

I thought the Premier would leap to his feet, because this should be right up the Premier's alley, when he talks about 'Have not will be no more', when he talks about regional disparity in this Province. Here you have a group of people in Labrador, eleven people living in Norman Bay - MR. WARREN: Eleven families. MR. NEARY: Eleven families , rather ,living in Norman Bay without electricity, who have to depend on their own little generators, In case hon. gentleman are not aware of where Norman Bay is located, it is located between Charlottetown and Mary's Harbour.

They are a hard working race of Newfoundlanders, Mr. Speaker. They are fishermen. They do not depend on the government for very much. · They are 4679

May 18, 1983 Tape 2288 EC - l MR. NEARY: not on welfare. They are hard- working, God fearing Newfoundlanders and just because Newfoundland Hydro says you have to have fifteen families in order to qualify for a community electrification programme, Mr. Speaker, just because Newfoundland Hydro, which is a creature of this government, says there has to be fifteen families and they only have eleven, they cannot get rural electrification, and that is shameful! Where now is the Premier, the champion of the downtrodden? Mr. Speaker, he sits in his seat.

You do not hear him up now championing the cause of those who are downtrodden, the oppressed and the deprived - regional disparity. DR. COLLINS: Where? Where are they oppressed? MR. NEARY: and Mary's Harbour Down in Labrador between Charlottetown in case the hon. gentleman does not know where Labrador is, I will try to pinpoint it for him a little bit. MR. WARREN: outside the Overpass. MR. NEARY: He does not know about anything Mr. Speaker, that policy should be changed. Eleven families should be quite sufficient to justi£y rural electrification.

What the hon. gentleman is doing through the back door is forcing these people into resettlement. That is what the hon. gentleman is doing, trying to force these people to resettle, Mr. Speaker. And it is not right, it is not fair, and my hon. colleague should be commended for bringing in this petition on behal£ of these eleven families, a very important petition.

And I hope that hon. gentlemen there opposite, especially the Premier, who is always trying to portray the image o£ being a fighting Newfoundlander, fighting for the rights of the underdog, the downtrodden, the deprived, and talking about regional disparity, here is an example now, Mr. Speaker, 4000

May 18, 1983 Tape 2288 EC - 2 MR. NEARY: where the han. gentleman can do something about it, the han. gentleman can show his sincerity. Or is the han. gentleman just bluffing the people of this ,P~ovince? Mr. Speaker, I hope the han. gentleman will now stand in his place and say, 'Yes, I am going to order cousin Vic to change that policy so that the people in Norman Bay can get rural electrification, something that everybody else in the Province takes for granted.' Mr .• Speaker, in this day and age you can just take it for granted. MR. WARREN: It is unreal. MR.

NEARY: It is unreal when you hear of petitions being brought in like the one brought in by my han. colleague. MR. HISCOCK: The champion of Churchill Falls. MR. NEARY: That is right, all they can think about are the mega projects. I had occasion this Winter to travel through Southern Labrador with my colleague, Mr. Speaker, and I met a lot of people in that area and I did some Ski-dooing while I was there and thoroughly enjoyed it. The outdoor Labrador grows on you, Mr. Speaker. PREMIER PECKFORD: Paternalism. MR. NEARY: Paternalism! Listen to the hen. gentleman!

Let the han. gentleman show his sincerity when he talks about regional disparity, the han. gentleman is for the underdog. Here he is now, head of an administration where all he has to d~ is pick up his phone - 4601

May 18, 1983 Tape No. 2289 JV - 1 MR. NEARY: vvi th a stroke of a pen the hon. gentleman can change this archaic policy. All he has to do is pick up the phone and say, 'cousin Vic, change that right away'. Then the hon. gentleman would be showing his sincerity. Let us find out if the hon. gentleman is ~~uffing. MR. WARREN: MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker? The Norman Bay people want some help. Is the hon. gentleman bluffing, MR. SPEAKER (Aylward): Order, please! The hon. member's time has elapsed. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Mr.

Speaker, I would like to address a few words to the petition and say that we are very glad to receive this petition that was presented by the hon. member for Eagle River (Mr. Hiscock) and I can assure the hon. member for Eagle River that this petition will get full consideration by Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro,and the government of this Province will do its best to be able to respond to the petition itself. Of course, the capacity of the government to respond depends upon the money that is available.

This Province has supported to a great degree the rural communities of this Province an~ has supported them in a very substantial way through the ~~ral electrification programme and we will continue to do so~ But this question, of course, as much as we can agree with the sentiments expressed by the hon. member, the immediacy of delivery and the realization of the prayer of this petition 4602

May 18, 1983 Tape No. 2289 JV - 2 MR. MARSHALL: is going to depend upon economics.

I have to observe,~hough,it is a little bit ironic and a little bit sad. that we have a petition of this nature corning from a community in Labrador,that very part of this Province that houses the great Churchill Falls River which generates electricity~And as the hon. gentleman knows and the members of the House kno~ this electricity has been taken, this cheap electricit~ and is being sold to the Province of Quebec at the present time for a mere two mils, that the Province of Newfoundlan~-----·- only gets about $6 million to $10 million a year and the Province of Quebec extracts some $600 million a year from this very resource which could satisfy the needs of the people of Norman's Cove.

It could satisfy it in two ways, Mr. Speaker. MR. WARREN: Norman's Cove is in Trinity Bay. MR. MARSHALL: Norman Bay. The hon. gentleman can pick up his Glad bags, I know where Norman Bay is. Mr. Speaker, it is a tragedy that up there -Number one, we have this resource and these people are deprived of it, and the second point is that there is so much money going out that could well satisfy the means of bringing the electrification to the people of Norman Bay. So, having said that, Mr.

Speaker, I want to assure the hon. member that this petition as well as any petitions of like nature will be given deep consideration by this government and we will do our best,but the hon. member must recognize that we are limited by financial constraints 4503

May 18,1983 Tape No. 2290 ah-1 MR. MARSHALL : that have been brought upon us to a large extent, Mr.Speaker, by the actions of the han. gentlemen there opposite when they gave the Upper Churchill away. MR.SIMMS: Hear, hear! PRE~UER PECKFORD: MR.SPEAKER (Aylward) : May I speak to the petition? Only the member introducing and one person from each side can speak on the petition. MR.NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: MR.NEARY: Further petitions? Mr. Speaker. Is this a point of order? Mr. Speaker, · just to show how helpful we are and how co-operative we are we will grant the han. gentleman leave if he wants to support the petition.

MR. SPEAKER: the han. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: By leave, the han. I want to support the petition, Mr. Speaker, and in so doing I want to inform the han. Leader of the Opposition that I think his geography is a little bit off. I have travelled from Mary'sHarbour North to Fox Harbour and then around the head into Williams Harbour and George's Cove and Port Hope Simpson and Sandy Hook and up into Charlottetown and Square Islands and, if I am not mistaken,Norman Bay is North of Charlottetown. Not by much, but it is North. It is not between Charlottetown and Mary's Harbour.

I travelled two Summers there by boat in twenty-seven foot skiffs, I know my way around that coast and I would take the han. member for Bellevue (Mr. Callan) down any time and bring him around that part of Labrador. I think Norman Bay is not between - So the Leader of the Opposition gets up with a great description trying 4604

May 18,1983 Tape No. 2290 ah-2 PREMIER PECKFORD: to pretend that he knew where Norman Bay is and when the chips fall, Mr. Speaker, he does not know where Norman Bay is. It is North of Charlottetown and Square Islands. But on the question of small communities and that is why I wanted to get up - it is only being picky, it is just a little bit North of Charlottetown. We have over the years, Mr.

Speaker- I wish the member for the Strait of Belle Isle (Mr.Roberts) was here· Some years ago when I was Minister of Energy we looked at trying to help out a number of the small communities with rural electrification,like Williams Harbour and St. Carols, and I remember getting a very kind letter from the member for the Strait of Belle Isle (Mr.Roberts) who was very, very appreciative of the work that I had done personall~ and Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro had done. No~ along that shore, Mr.

Speaker, as everybody knows and as the Leader of the Opposition is learning,there are a lot of small communities and some of them do not fit tightly under the rules and regulations,as the hon.member mentioned to me when we were sitting down talking across the House, if you set the minimum at fifteen families or twenty families or ten families. That is one of the problems you have when you try to set it at fifteen families or twenty families, it does not always work. If you get ten or fifteen families and ten or twelve families and they settle : someplace and they want to stay there twelve 4805

M<;y 18, 1983 Tape No. 2291 NM - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: months of the year,then government has a responsibility to provide whatever services it can. And obviously Norman Bay is not getting the kind of service it should get. And there are other communities on the Labrador Coast. MR. HISCOCK: Pinsent Arm. PREMIER PECKFORD: Pinsent Arm is a good example, and others , which are not getting the kind of service that they deserve. I think it was in Question Period some of the hon. members opposite questioned the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe) about that road from Lodge Bay to Mary's Harbour.

That is a very important road for Yours Truly here. we talked about it, the Minister of Transportation and myself,and we are the ones who have been pushing for that road. The Feds have not been pushing it. Only for us that road would never be built. It is like the Burgee Road now, it is part of the new agreement. It would not be done if it were not for us. We are the ones who have been pushing it. And we will continue to push and try to get that road done before the agreement runs out, no question, and we will put in our share. I want to see that road completed.

And the same thing with Norman Bay and the other communities . I am very, very receptive, as are the minister responsible for Energy (Mr. Dawe), and the Minister of Education (Ms. Verge), and ~th~r ministers here • we are doing what we can and we will definitely take a very serious look at the situation in Norman Bay for the hon. member, and if we can do anything, if we have to bend the rules to do it, or change the rules to help those people,well,then,we are only too happy to do it, Mr. Speaker, any day of the week. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear~ 4BB6

May 18, 1983 Tape No. 2291 NM - 2 MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : The hon. member for Burin-Placentia West. MR. TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, I stand to present a petition on behalf of 272 people from Petit Forte, supported by the people of South .East Bight and Little Paradise. This petition, Mr. Speaker, is in the form of a brief that has been submitted to the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe), and I believe that the concluding paragraph contains the prayer of the petition and I will read it, Mr. Speaker, for the record. "The community of Petit Forte has been isolated for years.

The people here resisted resettlement and are obviously determined to stay. we urge the provincial government to act on our request for what most of our communities in Newfoundland take for granted. We ask for an immediate commitment from the government that this project will receive priority in the government's planning for the next few years. Mr. Speaker, "The provincial government has shared in the recent improvements and development of Petit Forte.

We appreciate very much the support that you people have given us,and while we understand that many demands there are for financial resources,we trust you will see that our request to be made fully part of our Province and connected to the services is a fair and reasonable one. We would appreciate an early and favourable reply in this request and thank you for the consideration." Now, Mr. Speaker, I obviously support this petition and I believe that the people of Petit Forte, are going nowhere, they are there to stay. The prayer of the petition, Mr.

Speaker, states that they have resisted resettlement and I believe that that might be of some interest to the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) bec~use, Mr. Speaker, that great community destroyer, that brainchild 46 0 7.

May 18, 1983 Tape No . 2291 NM - 3 MR. TOBIN: of the Smallwood Government, the same government, Mr . Speaker, which the Leader of the Opposition was part of, the same programme which the Leader of the Opposition supported, was indeed Mr . Speaker, to resettle the people of Placentia Bay - MR. NEARY: A point of order, Mr . Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : A point of order, the hon . Leader of the Opposition. 4838

May 18, 1983 Tape No. 2292 SD - 1 MR. NEARY: Hr. Speaker, I know the hon. gentleman does not understand the rules of the House. He does not want to learn the rules, he just does not seem to want to conform to the rules of this House, he does not want to learn about the parliamentary process, Mr. Speaker. The hon. gentleman is completely out of order. And, Mr. Speaker, as hon. members know, in presenting a petition - this is basic, I should not have to say this 1 that under the Standing Orders, Mr. Speaker, page 31,

Section 92, Your Honour might want to take a look at it, 'Every member offering a petition to the House shall confine himself to the statement of the parties from whom it comes, the number of signatures attached to it and the material allegations itcontains. In no case shall such a member occupy more than five minutes in so doing, unless by permission of the House upon question put.' Mr. Speaker, I would submit the hon. gentleman was completely out of order in his remarks. He was back in the Smallwood era, back in the days of resettlement, Mr.

Speaker, and all these matters as Your Honour knows are the subject of debate and are completely out of order. MR. MARSHALL: To the point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : To the point of order, the hon. President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman only has five minutes to present his petition. It is an obvious attempt by the hon. member to use up the member's time. It is an abuse of the rules of the Hous ·e. MR. SPEAKER: To that point of order, when the hon. member for Burin - Placentia West (Mr.

Tobin} was presenting the prayer of the petition there was mention of resettlement in the prayer of the petition and the 4809

May 18, 1983 Tape No. 2292 SD - 2 MR. SPEAKER (Avlward): hon. member was referring to it. But I do want to point out to all hon. members that Standing Order 92 does state that we should refer to the statement of the parties, which the hon. member was doing, the number of signatures and material allegations. Placentia West. MR. TOBIN: The hon. member for Burin - Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I can certainly understand why the Leader of the Opposition (Mr.

Neary) would try to stifle me in the presentation of this petition,as he was part of and supported such a programme that tried to deny the people of this Province the right to live where they belong, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I support the petition. I believe and this government believe that the people in Placentia Ba~ as indeed the people in all other isolated parts of the Province, have the right to live where they want to live and have a right to the type of services that government can provide. MR. SPEAKER: elapsed. MR. TOBIN: to get back to it later. MR. SPEAKER: MR. DAWE: Order, please!

The hon. member's time has Okay, I will get the opportunity The hon. Minister of Transportation. Mr. Speaker, I would like to stand at this time and support the prayer of the petition so ably presented by my colleague from Burin - Placentia West (Mr. Tobint. As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, in connection with . the three communities involved the member and myself visited the communities and had public meetings just a few short months ago when there was an indication that 4BSO

May 18, 1983 Tape No. 2293 MJ - 1 HR. DAWE: the organization, namely the federal government,who were supplying them with their only transportation link,through a coastal service, had disbanded that service without prior notification to the people and it subsequently subjected them to a much inferior type of operation.

And it was through the efforts of the member and the efforts of my department that I think we finally convinced the federal government, and because of the support that the communities,and the efforts that the communities involved there put into it in preparing the necessary documentation to support their position. No problem, Mr . Speaker, in supporting the concept of a road network and I might put on record now that the department intends in this present year to do the necessary - MR. HODDER: MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : member for Port au Port. MR. HODDER: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. Order, please!

A point of order, the hon. the Mr. Speaker, the reason I raise a point of order is that we have been speaking on a petition which was presented by the member for Burin - Placentia West (Mr. Tobin) and the petition is out of order, Your Honour. The petition is a brief to the Department of Transportation of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador relating to the construction of a road to Petit Forte. Mr. Speaker, my understanding is that a petition must be signed by at least three individuals. MR. NEARY: sneaky can you get. MR. HODDER: It is not a petition? How Mr.

Speaker, this brief, dated February 24, 1983, is signed by two individuals. It is not a petition, there is nothing that says that it is a petition, Mr. Speaker. A petition is in a certain format to the people 4BD1

J.1ay 18, 1983 MR. HODDER: SOME HON. MEHBERS: MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : MR. HODDER: Tape No. 2293 of the Province. Oh, oh! Order, please! HJ - 2 Mr. Speaker, this is a brief containing two signatures, the Chairman and the Vice-Chairman of the Petit Forte Development Committee. So, Mr. Speaker, all of these - HR. snms: MR. NEARY: HR. SPEAKER: Sure_ it has not even been tabled yet. Well he should have tabled it. Order, please! Order, please! The han. the member for Port au Port, on your point of order. MR. HODDER: l·1r. Speaker, the debate is totally out of order; the ~1inister of Transportation {Mr.

Dawe) is out of order, the member for Burin - Placentia West (Mr. Tobin) was out of order when he spoke. MR. TOBIN: To that point of order, Hr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: To that point of order, the han. the member for Burin - Placentia West. MR. TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, I stood to present a petition, a brief. Mr. Speaker, I stated in opening that there were over 200 names on it - around 270 names. Here are the names, Mr. Speaker, ready to be put on the table of this House. MR. NEARY: SOME HON. MEMBERS : Put them on the table. Hear, hear! 4682

May 18, 1983 Tape 2294 PK - 1 MR. TOBIN: As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, there is a brief, for some reason perhaps the page took the wnmgpart, but there is the brief,Mr. Speaker, ready to be laid on the table of his House with 272 names. The petition, look, there it is. What do they want? I can understand, Mr. Speaker, why the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) and his puppets over there are upset . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (Ayl ward): Order, please! MR. TOBIN: Here is the petition, Mr. Speaker, to be laid on the table of the House, and I would like to table it. MR.

HODDER: To that point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SEEAKER: Order, please! To that point of order, the han. member for Port au port. MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, the debate was totally out of order. Mr. Speaker, when the gentleman presented the petition he tabled it in the House of Assembly, he did not table a petition. So the debate that was going on here .in this House of Assembly was totally out of order. MR. MARSHAL L: To that point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! To that point of order, the hon. President of the Council. MR.

MARSHALL: Look,the han. gentleman is obstructing the legitimate aspirations of the constituents of the member for Burin-placentia West (Mr. Tobin) _, that is what he is doing. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! 4803

May 18, 1983 Tape 2294 PK - 2 MR. MARSHALL: And, Mr. Speaker, the han. gentleman did not know what Budget Debatehe was in, now he does not know what district he is in, he does not recognize a petition when he talks about it, and for his information, you do not debate a petition. Now, Mr. Speaker, I would suggest that the han. gentleman should learn the rules of the House as Opposition House Leader (Mr. Hodder) rather than trying to obstruct members in bringing before this House the legitimate wishes of their constituents. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (Avlward) : Order, please!

To that point of order~ I have heard enough argument on that point of order. There was a petition placed on the table of the House with 200 signatures. ~his being Private Members' Day it is my duty to call the rrotion at 4:00 o'clock. According to Standing Order 53 (4) 'On Wednesdays the question period shall commence not later than 3:30 p.m. and the ordinary daily routine of business shall end not later than 4:00 p.m., and at that time the private member's motion shall be called by the Speaker.' ORDERS OF THE DAY 4BD4

May 18, 1983 Tape 2295 EC - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : I have to now by duty call the Private Member's Motion, and yesterday, by agreement, it was agreed to call the motion by the hon. the member for Grand Bank (Mr. Matthews). SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: MR. HODDER: The hon. the member for Grand Bank. On a point of privilege, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: On a point of privilege, the han. the member for Port au Port. MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, I feel that the privileges of this House have been breached, that the member for Burin - Placentia West (Mr. Tobin) not only tabled an incorrect petition when he rose to speak, but in reading the prayer of that petition, he made up the

preamble. MR. WARREN: That is right. MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, the prayer of this petition is: "We, the people of Petit Forte, are signing this petition because we feel that we are entitled to a road connecting us to the main highway." Nothing about resettlement, Mr. Speaker, which you, yourself ruled on when the member stood up. MR. TOBIN: You are only reading part of the petition, boy. MR. HODDER: The petition says nothing else, Mr. Speaker. MR. TOBIN: Do not be against the people of Petit Forte. Sit down. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! MR. HODDER: Mr.

Speaker, it is a privilege of this House that when a member stands to speak in the house that he tell the truth, that when he stands in the House, Mr. Speaker, and presents a petition, what he is saying we understand and that he read from that petition. Now, Mr. Speaker, we sat here on this side of the House believing that the member read a petition - and the -Hansard 4BQ5

May 18, 1983 Tape 2295 EC - 2 MR. HODDER: will show that he said, "The prayer of the petition, Mr. Speaker, is" - and he talked about resettlement. I do not recall the exact words but, Mr. Speaker, there was nothing on that petition to say that. He fabricated the prayer of the petition and I say that the privileges of this House have been breached. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : To that point of privilege. The Chair will take it under advisement and rule on it when I view Hansard and the petition. The hon. the member for Grand Bank. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. MATTHEWS: Mr.

Speaker, I rise in this House today to propose resolution number six on the Order Paper. I will begin, Mr. Speaker, by reading the resolution for all hon. members present:

WHEREAS our fishermen, mariners, and offshore rig workers have to work under some of the worst marine conditions in the world: and

WHEREAS there have been numerous sinkings off our shores and in particular last years tragic loss of the Ocean Ranger which have demonstrated that the Search and Rescue facilities located in this Province are totally inadequate: and

WHEREAS a local facility could save lives by shortening the response time in the event of an emergency at sea: and

WHEREAS the events of February 16 to the 19 of this year once · again showed that without adequate search and rescue facilities, drilling operations off our coasts are totally unsafe during Winter conditions: 4686

May lB, 1983 Tape No. 2296 JV - 1 MR. MATTHEWS: Nm'l THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that this House urge the Federal Government to establish adequate search and rescue facilities in this Province at the earliest possible date. Mr. Speaker, I take great pleasure in introducing this resolution for debate by members of this hon. House. All hon. members present need not be reminded of the severity of the marine conditions that exist off our Shores and of the numerous sinkings and tragedies that have ~ffected our lives in one way or another. Mr.

Speaker, having been born and raised in a fishing community,and having experienced the tragic sinking of two side trawlers, the Blue Wave and the Blue Mist with all crew members lost, I can readily identify with the need for improve~ search and rescue facilities for our Province. Mr. Speaker, the continuing absence of adequate search and rescue facilities within our Province has been a source of growing concern to all Newfoundlanders and Labradorians during the past number of years.

Petitions, representations and requests from those directly involved in previous marine emergencies to upgrade search and rescue operations in Newfoundland have gone unanswered. This blatant ignoring of a most critical need by the present Federal Government is nothing less than criminal. Last year's tragic loss of the Ocean Ranger and the events of this past February have reinforced the need for immediate positive action. Mr. Speaker, since the resolution makes specific reference to the events of February 16, I will attempt to recap the events, to 4607

May 18, 1983 Tape No. 2296 JV - 2 MR. MATTHEWS: re-emphasize the present lack of facilities and to demonstrate the need for significant improvements: At the time period alluded to in the resolution, Mr. Speaker, there were 84 people on board the drilling unit West Venture with at least ten icebergs and bergy bits in the vicinity of the rig during a severe Winter storm which lasted for two and a half days; the icebergs could not be towed away because of rough seas, the vessel was moored with all of its ten anchors.

The anchors could not be pulled because of rough seas and the last attempt to do so on the night of February 16 was unsuccessful. No personnel could be removed from the rig by helicopters or supply vessels during this period because the rig was also threatened due to weather conditions. Mr. Speaker, at 1:00 A.M. on Friday, February 18, a bergy bit was within seven nautical miles of the rig but flying conditions prevented Mobil from evacuating any personnel.

Successfullyshearing the anchor chains would have set the West Venture adrift as it has no means of propulsion and it would not have been possible to get a towline to a supply vessel because of the very rough seas. To complicate matters further, Mr. Speaker, successful abandonment by way of the rig's lifesaving equipment would have been unlikely due to high winds and rough seas. Mr. Speaker, the events of February clearly indicate how quickly conditions can deteriorate and with little notice given to present forecasting capab ilities.

Bergy bits often cannot be ---- --,.--- - detected until they are in the vicinity of the rigs particularly duri~g stormy conditions. It is quite obvious that the risksassociated with drilling conditions off our Coast are very high. Mr. Speaker, I would 4808

May 18, 1983 Tape No. 2296 JV-3 MR. MATTHEWS: suggest that it is absolute.ly mandatory that there be significant improvements in search and rescue capabilities within this Province. Mr. Speaker, the issue of response time is of prime importance to an emergency at sea. We have all been made aware of the length of time it presently takes for search and rescue aircraft to respond 4889

May 18,1983 Tape No. 2297 ah-1 MR. MATTHEWS: to emergencies off our coast. My colleague who is missing toda~ or at present,the han. member for Carbonear (Mr.Peach), telexed the Prime Minister in late February because of slow response by Search and Rescue to an emergency involving two individuals from his district • I would like to take this opportunity to disclose the reaction time factor involved in this incident.

At 5:00 p.m. on February 22 Air Search and Rescue were advised by the RCMP that two men were missing or stranded on •.ice which had infested the Northeast coastal regions of our Province,and at 7:30 p.m. Search and Rescue advised that no helicopter could leave Gander because of adverse weather conditions and they could not leave St. John's because there were no stand-by crews available. At 7:24 p.m. the Emergency Measures Organization and the RCMP, following several calls to the Rescue Co-ordination Centre at Halifax,were informed that no ships or planes were available to undertake a search for the missing men.

At 7:00 p.m. Mr. John Greer of the Emergency Measures Organization became personally involved and arranged, Mr. Speaker, for the provincial government air service to secure the assistance of a helicopter and at 8: 18 p.m. this craft was in the air. Shortly after the Emergency Measures Organization was advised, after 8: 18 · p.m., that a Buffalo aircraft had been dispatched from Summerside P.E.I. The first flare was dropped from this aircraft at ll:36p.m., so it was five hours after assistance was requested. Mr.

Speaker, I think this incident very clearly demonstrates,and it is just one of many examples the inadequacy of the system as it presently exists. 4900

M.ay 18,1983 Tape No. 2297 ah-2 MR.MATTHEWS : Mr . Speaker, it is far too long to have to wait,four to five hours for helicopters from P.E.I . to reach St. John's,and six to eight hours to reach the rigs,and, of course, then only if weather permits. Weather conditions can change so drastically, Mr. Speaker, in four to six hours that it just might be impossible to even attempt a rescue. This is one of the most important reasons why this government has pushed so hard and why aircraft should be located in close proximity to the oil fields .

Storm conditions combined with icebergs, fr eezing spray, and many times low visibility dictate the requirement for the most modern search and rescue facility and equipment to be immediately located within Newfoundland . Mr. Speaker, I ask how can anyone with common 4801

Hay 18, 1983 Tape No. 2298 SD - 1 HR. HATTHEWS: sense and after reviewing the data and facts available, be impassive to such a requirement'? To be impassive to such a matter of utmost importance is only demonstrating negligence of the highest degree. Hr. Speaker, my colleage, the member for Carbonear (.Hr. Peach), received a response on March 16th, 1983, to his aforementioned telex not from the Prime Minister, however, Hr. Speaker, but from a Mr. D.N. Mainguy, Vice Admiral of the Defense Staff of the Canadian Armed Forces. Mr.

Mainguy wrote that he could not share the opinion of my colleague and the opinion of all Newfoundlanders and Labradorians that search and rescue coverage is now inadequate. He did not s·hare that opinion, Mr. Speaker. I re-emphasize. Of course, that does not surprise me either, Hr. Speaker, because once again we are seeing an opinion, we are being dictated to by an individual who is so far removed from the actual scene that it is impossible for hirnto betotally cognizant of our needs here in Newfoundland~ It is quite obvious that Mr.

Mainguy is not aware of the weather conditions off our coast and is certainly not aware that conditions have and can change more rapidly than he can envisage. I can only say, Mr. Speaker, that it is my sincerest wish that this gentleman will not be the main guy in making jecisions about future search and rescue facilities for our Province. If so, Mr. Speaker, I am sure, once again, we will be left out. MR. CALLAN: I think Joe Clark should have been the main guy. 4902

May 18, 1983 Tape No. 2298 so - 2 MR .. MATTHEWS : Mr. Speaker, I have tried to continue even though th.e member for Bellevue CMr. Callan) is continuously trying to interrupt me. And I would suggest to the member for Bellevue that B'ince we are talking about search and rescue today, Mr. Speaker, I' take notice that the hon. Leader of the Opposition (}fr. Neary)_ is missing, and I would say for th .e information of those in the galleries that I am speaking today because the member for the Strait of Belle ~sle (Mr. Robertsl is not present.

And I would suggest that the member fo:r Bellevue should jo.i.n with the Leader of the Oppositi.on and maybe put out a search fo .r the member for the s·trait of Belle then maybe, you know, someone will not have to take up th .e slack for members of the Opposition who are, onc.e again, absent. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, ah.. 4903

~ Hay 18, 1983 Tape No. 2299 MJ - 1 HR. MATTHEWS: And I would also say,Mr. Speaker, that I can understand to some degree why Mr. Lamontagne has not seen fit to give us this facility that we so hadly need 1 because it is my understanding from report~ from across the country that he has got all his personnel and he is spending lots of defense money these days,especially after the last gallop poll, going across the country searching for Liberal supporters. And I do not know, Mr. Speaker, if he does find any, whether there will be any chance of rescue or not. Mr. Speaker, I say categorically about this ~~.

Mainguy - and I make no apologies - that I sincerely hope that he is not involved in future decisions for search and rescue for this Province. I sav thi:;; Mr. Speaker, because as I read further into the letter from the vice-admiral to my colleague from Carbonear I found the following statements and points: (

a) Search and Rescue resources on the East Coast are in optimum locations, (

b) the resources available on the East Coast can effectively meet the demonstrated need of the area, and (

c) if more resources were available they would be used more effectively in areas other than Newfoundland. Now, Mr. Speaker, what a statement for the an individual to put from a pen, to put out of his head. I mean 1 it is just totally blatant and totally irresponsible. HR. MARSHALL: Who made that statement? MR. MATTHEWS: Mr. Mainguy, the Vice-Admiral of the Defense Staff. Now, can you imagine ? Is it any wonder, Mr. Speaker, Mr, Speaker, I find those remarks and statements completely appalling and I am sure all hon, members present feel the same. Mr. Speaker, I would like to reflect for awhile back to a few years ago when a similar response 4904

Hay 18, 1983 Tape No. 2299 MJ - 2 MR. MATTHE WS: was given by the then Minister of . Defense, James Richardson, in answer to a question by the MP for St. John's East, the hon. James McGrath. Now, l1r. Speaker, when you look at the response and so on that was given by Mr. Richardson and you view the statements that were made ov 1-ir. Mainguy, you would almost think, Mr. Speaker, that Hr. Mainguy '\'lent and dug out the correspondence of Mr. Richardson, his letter, and copied if off and sent the same thing to my colleague, the member for Carbonear (Mr. Peach).

Because I would just like to refer hon. gentlemen to this release and the contents of this letter that was written to the MP for St. John's East and it reads: 'Defense Hinister James Richardson; in which the minister says he believes that Search and Rescue resources at Summerside P.E.I. and Halifax adequately meet D and D - at that time it was a department - assigned responsibilities for search and rescue in the A.tlantic Search and Rescuing region. 'Further, I believe the resources are in 1 - now take note, r-1r.

Speaker, and I ask all hon. members to take note of the wording - 'the resources are in the optimum location to respond 4905

May 18, 1983 Tape 2300 PK - 1 MR. MATTHEWS: to incidents occuring in the various areas of this region', Mr. Richardson said. Identical wording to Mr. Mainguy who just a few short weeks ago responded to my colleague,the hon. member for Carbonear (Mr. Peach). 'For these reasons' he continues, Mr. Speaker, ' it would not be in the best interest of the overall Atlantic search and reSCt.E system to establish or relocate a search and rescue facility in the Eastern regionof Newfoundland'. Now, Mr. Speaker, if you did not know the difference or if you were a little bit evil minded, you would think that - MR.

SIMMS: Which you are not. MR. MATTHEWS: Which I am not, correct. - Mr. Mainguy merely copied the letter or took the content of the letter of Mr. Richardson and sent the response to my colleague for auto~, Mr. Speaker, that is just what anyone would think if they were evil minded like some members opposite. MR. S:n.M>: MR. MATTHEWS: Mr. Speaker. MR. Sm£:~ Shocking. MR. MATTHEWS: Over therel Yes. There is no question, You should be ashamed or yourselves. Mr. Speaker, just a few short weeks ago we were delighted to hear that the present federal Minister of National Defence, the hon.

Giles Lamontagne, .would be visiting our Province. All Newfoundlanders and Labradorians , Mr. Speaker, were delighted to hear that, and they were delighted because everyone was expecting a positive announcement regarding search and rescue in our Province. Mr. Speaker, all I have to say is what a disappointment. What a disappointment! MR. Srr-MS: Shocking! 4906

May 18, 1983 Tape 2300 PK - 2 MR. MATTHEWS: I remember very well, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Lamontagne's visit to this Province and also his visit to this han. House on May 3. On ~: ay 3, Mr. Speaker, we were delighted and honoured to have Mr. Lamontagne visit with us in this House of Assembly. I can only say - MR. SIMM3: No, no, no. D:l not qo that far. MR. t-1ATTHEWS: - if I can continue, Mr. Speaker that it is too bad that the hon . Leader of the Opposition ~Mr. Neary) is not in his seat at present, so that he could listen to my remarks and react accordingly. MR.

SIMM3: 'lllese councillors are here fran Port aux Basques too,you would think he would be here to see them. It is shocking! Shockincr~ MR. MATTHEWS: You would think he would, yes. But , of course, I am sure the people of his district-they only elected him last time by some forty-one votes, I am sure the next time he will be defeated by in excess of 400. MR. SIMMS: His Worship , the Mayor. MR. MATTHEWS: Mr. Speaker, I do not remember the visit because of any positive announcement for our Province ;from Mr. L~r.ontagne,but I remember it very well, Mr.

Speaker, because of the Leader of the Opposition who was so delighted to see his buddy from Ottawa, absolutely delighted, and of course he showed it very well in this House. MR. S!Mr£: Yes, elated. MR. MATTHEWS : Of course .he took great pain Mr. Speaker, to lackey and to impress ~the fudercil minister his loyalty and support for 'the ;federal Liberals and their position on issues of great importance to this l?rovince,such as this very important issue of search and rescue facilities for this Province. 4807

May 18, 1983 Tape 2300 PK - 3 MR . SlMMS: You know what Lamontagne said in Gander, do you not? MR . ~IATTI:tEWS : MR. STI-M>: No , I do not. He said, 'He was not a Santa Claus'. He was not there to play Santa Claus. MR. MATTHEWS~ He was not a S~nta Claus. Okay. But, Mr. Speaker, out of curosity I got a COJ?Y of Hansard for May 3, and 4SG8

May 18, 1983 Tape 2301 EC - 1 MR. MATTHEWS: I would like to read some excerpts from this May 3rd answer, the reaction of the han. the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) to Mr. Lamontagne as he sat in the guest gallery here on that particular day. Mr.

Speaker, after the han. the federal minister was welcomed to this House by the Speaker, the han. the Leader of the Opposition rose in this House and said: "I have to say this to my honourable and dear and beloved colleague from the federal Liberal Party, that no matter what he told the Jaycees today - and no doubt the han. gentleman picked and chose his words, he was careful in what he was saying and no doubt he was well received by the Jaycees who, last year, if han. members will recall, circulated a petition, I believe" - he was not sure, he believed - "and took it to Ottawa to have improvements made in the Air~Sea Rescue services in this Province." And he goes on to say, "But no matter how hard the han. gentleman tried today, how carefully he picked his words, tomorrow or the next day we will hear han. gentlemen there opposite condemn and criticize the federal government for lack of Air-Sea Rescue services in this Province." I would just like to say, Mr.

Speaker, that yes, the Jaycees did go to Ottawa with the petition and that petition had in excess of 100,000 signatures on it, and all people in this Province were very much aware of it. They did not believe, they knew that that was the case. r.m. SU1MS: Give us that part again about 'dear and beloved.' MR. MATTHEWS: No, I will not repeat that because, you know, I do not want to belittle the hon. the Leader of the Opposition too much and since he is not in his seat to defend himself, I will take a little pity on him. 4809

May 18, 1983 Tape 2301 EC - 2 MR. MATTHEWS: Mr. Speaker, I will just go on a bit further in the Hansard. Once again, the han. the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) said: "Mr. Speaker, I have to say this in the presence of my colleague from Ottawa, that we deeply appreciate his interest in this Province. It is too bad that we could not invite the han. gentleman to come in on the floor of the House to address the Legislature. I suppose we could do it by mutual agreement.

These things probably would have to be - or the han. the minister may be embarrassed, maybe he would not want to come in, but it would be very interesting to have the minister come in and tell us about the improvements in Air-Sea Rescue in this Province and tell us the plans that they have on the table to improve the system, Mr. Speaker, in this Province." Now, I can categorically say, Mr. Speaker, that we all know about the improvements that this Province has received over the past number of years in Search and Rescue facilities and equipment in this Province.

Now, if the han. the Leader of the Opposition can stand in this House on May 3rd or today and defend the Minister of Defence (Mr. Lamontagne) or his department, then I would say, Mr. Speaker, that next time he will not be elected by forty-one votes, he will get quite a thrashing, particularly if he returns to the district of LaPoile. MR. SPEAKER (Dr. McNicholas) : Order, please! 4910

May 18, 1983 Tape No. 2302 NM - 1 f-iR. SPEAKER (McNicholas) : Order, please! The han. member's time has elapsed. SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave. MR. MATTHEWS : Mr. Speaker, I will get a chance to finish when I close the debate. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The han. member for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I had hoped that the han. member was going to get up and put some meat on the resolution.

Ihad hoped that the han. member was going to specify and identify the inadequacies of our search and rescue system and was then going to suggest some meaningful improvements, was going to point out where the search and rescue facilities should be located and what kind of system we needed. But the han. member did not do that, Mr. Speaker, it was just a continuation of the message that han. members had been trying to portray for the last four or five years, it was just a continuation of a tirade against the federal government. That is all it was, Mr. Speaker.

And I do not stand here today to defend anybody in the federal government, to defend any defence minister or anybody else, what we intend to do here - SOME HON. MEMBERS: . Hear, hear! MR. LUSH: -Mr. Speaker, on this side of the House is to build a case. And I will say from the beginning it is not our intention to oppose this resolution, but Mr.

Speaker, I had hoped that by the time the han. mew~er was through I could have gotten up and su~ported the thing whole-heartedly because the hon. member -would have done such a good job in pointing out the inadequacies of our present search and rescue system,and would have advocated such an effective system 4 g i 1

May 18, 1983 Tape No. 2302 NM- 2 MR. LUSH: that I would have known precisely where I stand. But that is left to us. We on this side must do that. We on this side must give meat, Mr. Speaker, we on this side must put clothes on this naked resolution and fill in where the member failed so miserably. Now, Mr. Speaker, there are no points to be gained in condemning the federal government and flogging the federal government.

Certainly we want our system improved and it is certainly up to us to build up a case, to point out what is indequate, what is ineffective, what is insufficient about this system, and then to advocate what we want. Even in the whereases I think the hon. member includes some inaccuracies. In the second

whereas, for example,he says, 'AND

WHEREAS there have been numerous sinkings off our shores and in particular last year's tragic loss of the Ocean Ranger which have demonstrated that Seareh and Rescue facilities located in this Province are totally inadequate." Now, Mr. Speaker, I do not think anybody would use the example of the Oce ·an Ranger to point out the inadequacies of search and rescue in this Province. It is a very delicate issue, Mr. Speaker, a very sensitive one, 4Si2

May 18, 1983 Tape No. 2303 MJ - l l·1R. LUSH: and there are no experts, Mr. Speaker, in the field that would suggest that regardless of the kind of Search and Rescue facilities that we had on that particular night that we could have done something to have saved these lives. So, Mr. Speaker, none of the experts would ever support this view. I think the hon. member uses a poor case to try and support his view or his opinion and his suggestion that the Search and Rescue facilities in this Province are inadequate,because I do not think that we could have done anything about that that night.

Regardless of the kinds of facilities that we had, there is just nothing we could have done about it, Mr. Speaker. But he uses a very poor case, he tries to use an emotional issue here, r1r. Speaker, to try to develop his political points. This is what he has been trying to do. Now, Mr. Speaker, this is not a new idea, this is not a novel idea. We in Newfoundland who have experienced tragedy after tragedy as a result of living by the sea, we know the necessity of having improved facilities, I do not know about adequate, Mr. Speaker, because no one knows what is adequate.

If the hon. member thinks that we are going to prevent the loss of life, ~ve all know we are not going to do that. So, what is an adequate system? The hon. member did not allude to it, he t1id not come up tvith what he thought should be an adequate system. He did not talk about whether we should have equipment, facilities for spotting, for doing the surveillance on the ocean to try and find those in trouble, he did not say anything about that; where it should be located, whether it should be in Gander, whether it should be in St. John's, whether it should be in Stephenville, or in Port aux Basques.

He did not talk about the kind of retrieval equipment that would be necessary in ships a~d planes and where they should be located. He did not talk about any of that, Mr. Speaker, he just let go a tirade at 49i3

May 18, 1983 Tape No. 23 03 MJ - 2 HR . LUS H: the feder al gover nme nt, talki ng about past ministers, what they had said in response to the member from St. John's East, he talked about ~rr. Lamontagne when he came to the Province here and his speech and what the hon. the Leader of the Opposition (~1r. Neary) said. All of that, Mr. Speaker, is complete nonsense. Now, if that is the way hon. members are going to address this resolution, Mr. Speaker, it certainly shows their motivation and intent for putting this resolution before this House.

If hon. members are sincere and genuine they will get up and they will talk about what is weak in the system, what is inadequate, what they envisage to be a ;reasonable, adequate system. As I have said, Mr. Speaker, this is not a new idea. This feeling that we have in the Province of a renewed interest in Search and Rescue facilities came as a result naturally of the tradgi .c event of the · Oce ·an Ranger and subsequent events that followed. 4914

May 18, 1983 Tape No. 2304 SD - 1 MR. LUSH: The subsequent events were these: It was found out that the government, Mr. Speaker, were slack with respect to their safety regulations on these rigs. They were very slack on the safety regulations and, of course, they then tried to get on the bandwagon of being concerned with safety when up to that point in time they had no effective safety regulations in place. So, Mr.

Speaker, as a result of all of that,when we saw that there were some inadequacies, that there were some deficiencies with respect to safety regulations on these rigs, people got concerned and tried to blame it on the lack of search and rescue facilities. But, Mr. Speaker, then we saw the Jay Cees getting concerned, then we saw the member for St. John's East (Mr. Marshall) trying to jump on the bandwagon and try to grab a few political points, and here today we have the member fo ·r Grand Bank (Mr. Matthews), Mr. Speaker, carrying on the battle of the member for St.

John's East in an effort to, it would appear from his speech todaY, gain some political points. That is all, Mr. Speaker, oecause otherwise the member would have demonstrated more sincerely, rather than just flogging the federal government. We know the federal government have to improve this system, Mr. Speaker, we know that, all Newfoundland realizes that 1 but it is up to us here today to justify the case or to present the case, it is up to us today to suggest to the federal government exactly the kind of sea and air rescue system that we want to see in this Province. And th .at is what we should be doing.

Where do we want these facilities located? Do we want th .em located here in St. John's? Do we want some of them located in Gander? Do we want some of them located in Stephenville? Do we want some ofthern located 49;5

May 18, 1983 Tape No . 2304 so - 2 MR. LUSH: in Port a~ Basques to make it more effective? The hon. gentleman talks about the spotting time oeing very,·very important. Well 1 if the spotting time is very, very important,then we are going to have to have some of that equipment strategically located in Newfoundland. It does not necessarily all have to be in St. John's. Is that what the hon. member illl saying,that everything should be here in St. John's - the spotting facilities and the ships to go and pick up the people in trouble or wha .tever? Is that what he is saying?

Qris he suggesting that we should have, to make it more effective, these facilities spread throughout Newfoundland? He did not say, Mr.Speaker, he did not get into that at all. Well, it is my view that these facilities should be spread throughout tne Province, that we need some facilities · h.ere in St. John's, that we need some facilities in 4Di6

May 18,1983 Tape No. 2305 ah-1 MR.LUSH: Central Newfoundland and Western Newfoundland and in Northern Newfoundland. We need, Mr. Speaker, to cover the whole Province to make it as satisfactory as we can. I hesitate to use the words making it accurate because I am not sure that any of us know what an adequate system is. We only know that we need a much better system than we now have, that we need a much more improved system than we now have. We know that. And I am not sure that any of us know exactly the kind of system that we should be advocating.

But we do know we need an improved system and a system that covers the whole of the Province as much as possible. Because, Mr. Speaker, regardless of where the facilities are located,we are not always going to be on the scene of a marine tragedy. It could be in the Gulf of St. Lawrence, Mr. Speaker, and if we have something in St. John's that is not going to be adequate.

We could have something on the South Coast, we could have something in Northern Labrador or on the Northeast Coast, so we need to have the facilities distributed and distributed in a way that will make our system very, very efficient and effective. So, Mr.Speaker, the hon. gentleman made no allusions to the kind of system that he was advocating and, as I said before, it was just a matter of flogging the federal government, simple and straightforward. And that, Mr.

Speaker, saddens me because I had.hoped that the member would have certainly suggested to all hon. members the kind of - he would have identified the weaknesses,whether it was in the equipment used , the airplanes and the ships weaknesses in the system and what he envisaged for improving the system. But none of that carne out and it is our job over here now 4n""7 \.J1

May 18 ,1983 Tape No . 2305 ah -2 MR .LOSH: to be able to point out the ki nd of system that we would see . And we are genuinely interested , Mr . Speaker, naturally, in seeing our search and rescue capabilities improved and improved substantially . There is no Newfoundlander but would believe otherwise . All of us 1 whether we live on the coast or whether we live in the interior,reali2e that we would like to see a much improved sear ch and rescue facility here in this Province . And, Mr .

Speaker, it is here we need it , in this land \>~here we have bee .n forever witnessing and plagued with ocean tragedies , marine tragedies , and there are no people in the Western world , there are no peop le on eart h who know any better than we do the tragedies from the ocean and from the sea . And we have to do everyth ing we can '- 4Si8

May 18, 1983 Tape No. 2306 NH - 1 MR. LUSH: to minimize and diminish the loss of lives. We have to do ever ything we can to make the offshore oil and gas a safe operation. We have to do everything we can to make the fisheries a safe operation. We have to do every­ thing we can to make hunting a safe operation, hunting on the sea. We have to have in place an effective system, a system that will minimize and diminish, Mr. Speaker, the loss of life and undue suffering,we have to do that.

And I hope that we can convince the powers that be that we want to see an improved system, a system that is much better than we now have. Of course for any of us to suggest that we are going to come up with . a system that will prevent the loss of lives at sea is certainly not a realistic one. I do not think that we can say that that is the situation we will ever come to ! but certainly, Mr. Speaker, we can make the high seas a safer place in which to operate,or we can give everybody the confidence that it is a safer place to operate by using the technology that is available to us today.

And I hope that we can ~ake _· __ advantage of the most sophisticated techn~logy to ensure the: safety of our people who work on the seas, be it in the fisheries or be it connected with the offshore oil and gas . But, Mr. Speaker, th .ere is no point is posturing, there is no point in giving lip service. This is too big an issue to try and collect political Brownie points, this is too big an issue for this, too big an issue, Mr.

Speaker, and I think it behooves us all to be very sincere and very genuine about this matter and to be very responsible and to present a case that shows the inadequacies and shows the kind of search and rescue system that we want in this Province. And we should have one second to none, Mr. Speaker, second to none. We should have the best search and rescue facility, we should have the best search and rescue system. In all of the world, we should have the best. And we should not 48~9

Ji!_, May 18, 1983 Tape No. 2306 NM - 2 MR. LlJSR: s.ettle for less. And we on this side of the House, Mr. Speaker, will not settle for less, we will continue to press. we will continue to do what we can to try and impress upon the federal government and the powers that be that we in this Province will not settle for an inferior rescue and search facility. we will not settle for something, Mr. Speaker, that is not the best. We will not settle for something that we do not feel confident about, that we do not feel right about.

We want the best, we :?hould have the best, we should have the best that technology can produce for us. And there is no question that in the next few years, with the technological progress in the world, that we will be coming up with better systems, 4920 ~

May 18, 1983 Tape No. 2307 JV - 1 ~.ffi. LUSH: better detection systems, better spotting systems and better systems for rescue. We will be corning up with these systems and whatever the future progress is we want to take advantage of that. •,•ha tever the technological developments will be, we want to have it in this Province and particularly now, Mr. Speaker, when we are going to witness great activity with respect to offshore oil and gas.tt certainly makes a strong case. Mr. Speaker, to try and build a case on the sinking of the Ocean Ranger I believe is not the right thing to do, Mr.

Speaker, because,as I said when I started, most experts will agree that the most efficient search and rescue system in the world could not have avoided the tragedy of that particular night. And to use that, Mr. Speaker, I think is just a matter of trying to take advantage of emotionalism and certainly not to build a case around logic and rationality And that is what we must be concerned about in this issue 1 because naturally it is a very emotional issue and one that gets us all uptight and one that get us all going . .But we must approach this very important matter with some degree of rationality, Mr.

Speaker, and with some degree of logic and, I hope, as the debate progresses,that by next ~ -- -- ~- Wednesday we will have developed, we will have conceptualized the kind of system that we think would be satisfactory for our marine activity in this Province. I would hope that when the debate is over we would have certainly developed and conceptualized for all hon. members and for the people of this Province the kind of search and rescue facility that we would like to see in this Province.And none of this political nonsense, Mr. Speaker, let us get down to business, let us identify 4921

May 18, 1983 Tape No . 2307 JV - 2 MR . LOSH : the weaknesses, let us clearly show where the weaknesses lie and let us develop a system that all Newfoundland will be proud of, everybody in Newfoundland , the fishermen, all of those people involved in the offshore oil and gas,because that is why we are doi ng it, that is our concern . All of the people who have to make their living on the high seas surrounding thi s Province, that is our concern ~ 4922

May 18, 1983 Tape 2308 EC - 1 MR. LUSH: So, Mr. Speaker, I hope that when all hon. members get up to speak that they speak in that perspective, that they see it in this perspective and that we develop a system that we put in place, philosophicallY, the kind of system that we believe will improve what is an inferior system, a system now that has weaknesses. So I hope that as the debate progresses, we will have developed the kind of system that we all believe will be the kind of system to protect the lives of all of those people who have to work on the high seas, in fishing or in the offshore or whatever.

And that is what the debate should be about, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Dr. McNicholas): Order, please! expired. MR. LUSH: The han. member's time has And, as I said when I started, Mr. Speaker, we certainly have no intention of objecting to this resolution and I hope by the time we are finished that hon. members will have developed meat around this resolution where we can all say that we all support it whole-heartedly. MR. ANDREWS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: MR. ANDREWS: The hon. the Minister of Environment. Mr. Speaker, I rise to support this resolution. Most certainly, I support it.

It is a very serious and important resolution .and, as the member for Terra Nova (Mr. Lush) said, without bei~g emotional about it, I will try to say a few words. I think the member who just spoke nailed it on the head,that the present system is an inferior system. I think most Newfoundlanders, all politics aside, agree that the system can be improved. I will also say that however much you improve the system, there will always 4823

May 18, 1983 Tape 2308 EC - 2 MR • ANDREWS : be people who say it can be improved even more, but I think what we should zero in on here now in this debate are the essential needs of Search and Rescue in Newfoundland and Labrador. MR. TULK: right? MR. ANDREWS : It will never be totally adequate, Nothing is ever totally adequate. You could pave the highways with gold and people would want them paved with silver. I am sure that would happen too. But, Mr.

Speaker, there is a need for substantial improve­ ment, not just improvement by having one fixed wing plane stationed here or a couple of helicopters stationed there, I think the whole approach, even the co-ordination of the system that is in place right now leaves a lot to be desired. One thing that I must comment upon - the mover of this motion, · the member for Grand Bank (Mr.

Matthews) commented upon a recent episode in the district of Carbonear, where two gentlemen were lost on the ice and the fact that Search and Rescue in Gander had a very difficult time, an impossible time, to arrive at the scene of the disaster, if you could call it that. And what that episode carne down to, Mr. Speaker, was the fact that the military designed aircraft in Newfoundland today, when they are available, are not capable of doing the job. That rescue was carried out by civilian aircraft which were more capable of going in 492ft

May 18, 1983 Tape 2309 PK - 1 MR. ANDREWS: the nighttime in bad weather and fulfilling that rescue, and that was by a locally owned company, I think Sealand helicopters performed that rescue. That points up another very important issue,that we can have as many helicopters around Newfoundland and Labrador as we want but if they are not equipped to fly at night and to hoist people out of the water,they are absolutely useless,Mr. Speaker. They are probably as useless as what was proposed a few weeks ago or a couple of weeks ago by Mr.

Lamontange,when he suggested that we use our water bombers, that we might buy in three or four years time,for search and rescue in the Wintertime, :·~inter months off the coast of Labrador and Newfoundland. Things that are designed for Summer use, for three or four months work in the Summer, to go as search and rescue aircraft. How ridiculous! How stupid and how ridiculous, Mr. Speaker! Not to get emotional the man should resign, the man who would say that.

The man who is responsible for search and rescue, that is the same man who is providing inadequate helicopters in Newfoundland right now and not enough ff.ixed wing aircraft, Mr. Speaker. MR. TULK: • Is the member saying that the large Chinooks are not equipped for nighttime flying? I am just asking a question. MR. ANDREWS: That helicopter that was requested at that time could not fly. MR. TULK: What about the large Chinooks can they? MR. ANDREWS: That is the point,that the machine could not fly. The quality of the equipment here , Mr. Speaker, is very important.

And I would also like to refer our military, our navy. A lot has been said about our Armed Forces in Canada or not enough has been said. We have without a do~jt the 4925

May 18, 1983 Tape 2309 PK - 2 MR. ANDREWS: poorest Navy in the NATO system right now. A friend of mine who is a naval office~ a fairly high ranking naval officer in the Canadian Navy in Halifax 1told me only a few years ago, a couple of years ago that if there were any kind of activities declared, naval activities involving NATO troups,or hostilities,that the Canadian Navy right -now, the best vessels in the Canadian Navy could do no more than be pickup ships for the Arnericians or the Germans or the French or the British ships.

We do not have one vessel that is capable of engaging another military vessel , a foreign military vessel. So on those vessels, and on the capability of the navy, and search and rescue in general, as I just indicated with the helicopters and the vessels that we have, we do not have capable vessels. As a matter of fact, none of our warships are capable of working in ice conditions at all, none of our fighting ships. They are built as a Southern navy. They cannot even work in the lighest ice conditions that would ae found around the Gulf of St. Lawrence, in those types of conditions. MR. TULK: water.

Give them a shot at Fogo Island 4 0'1,... Jt-0

~-'lay 18, 1983 Tape No. 2310 MJ ~1R. ANDREWS: I think , ~1r. Speaker, .i,n that light it is very encouraging to see that the policy of the next Government of Canada which will probably, most likely and hopefully be led by Mr. Crosbie, who has promised to increase the military might of this nation,and hopefully, tir. Speaker, some of that military might will be stationed here in Newfoundland. The navy people that I talk to in Halifax over the years tell me-r asked them one time why they did not have any naval vessels stationed in Newfoundland and the answer was it would cost too much to station a vessel in St.

John's,we will say. MR. WARREN: li'lhy St. John's? MR. ANDREWS: I said St. John's because 1 it has a dockyard capable of looking after and dealing with some of those naval ships, it would also be a center where the recreational activities and the onshore training facilities would be readily available for a crew and so on, and messing as Halifax has become the only major East Coast naval city. MR. TULK: Should we not have a base,with them out around everywhere? ~m. ANDREWS: So I asked the navy people why we could not have one, two or three out of .our twenty-odd naval ships based in Newfoundland, sayin St. John's?

They said it would cost too much money because you would have to be moving troops, sailors back and forth. But they do not realize that a quarter of all the seamen in the Canadian Navy are Ne~11foundlanders, at this present time. Mr. Speaker, if that is the reason we do not have any naval ships in St. John's, how come we are moving them now to Quebec City? I am sure it is no cheaper to ITOve a naval station to Hali~ax or a squadron to Quebec City than it would be to St. John's or (',aose Bay. 4927

May 18, 1983 MR. ANDRF:i\'S: d'Espoir . MR. HODDER: MR. ANDREWS: Tape No. 2310 MJ - 2 anywhere else, or Ru rge o, or Bav . Or Clarenville, Seldom, or Wesleyville. Mr. Speaker, I certainly look forward to the next federal government, PC Government, led by Mr. Crosbie, when we will get an improvement in our Armed Forces and more equipment and warships that will be stationed in St.

John's with helicopter capability on those warships, that can be at sea patrolling the North Atlantic with helicopters on those warships. ':':'his is what we need, and warships capable of working in ice conditions, and capable of working on the Labrador Coast. We do not have one warship that is capable of going to Fogo Island in the Wintertime. If there is any slob ice around Fogo Island now you will not see a navy ship going in there, she .cannot make it. MR. TULK: The first par t of :vour statement was wishful thinking, the rest I agree with. MR. ANDREWS: Now, Mr.

Speaker, I do not want to dwell too long on the great tragedy that we had last year in Newfoundland with the oil rig 4928

Ma y 18, 1983 Tape No. 2311 NM - 1 MR. ANDREWS : Ocean Rang er,but I think a couple of things should be pointed out. It has been well noted, I think,that our climate has been changing by a lot of people, some say it is for the better, some say it is for the worse, but obviously some of the past few Winters have been bad. This Winter has been bad at sea, it has been good on land. Last Winter was bad on land and not too bad at sea in some places.

But reading from the report done by the Petroleum Directorate 1 and these _would be statistical data that I would be quoting on the analysis of operating at Hibernia on February 12 to 20, 1983: "Conditions on the Grand Banks during February '83 can be termed abnormal mainly due to a significant increase in the :,_.number of icebergs in the drilling area. The International Ice Patrol has reported approximately 120 ice- berg sightings South of 48 degrees North. The average since 1900 is 9 for the month of February." So something is quite different here, Mr. Speaker, things are changing.

"Additionally,weather patterns have caused a larger than normal number td drift westward into the vicinity of well locations rather than through the Flemmish Pass~'which apparently is the main route of the icebergs. Now I have made some enquiries since this report has been published and at that time the number was 120 bergs South of 48 degrees North. The number has now exceeded well over 600 icebergs for 1983 1 and that was ,I think, up to the end of ten days ago or something like that. So it is in the vicinity of 600-plus. So obviously 1983 has been quite an abnormal year.

Unrelated to drilling at all, and I would not like to comment on the drilling aspect of this because that is not exactly what we are talking about here in this resolution, but 4S29

~ May 18 , 19 83 Tape No. 2311 Nl>i - 2 MR. ANDREWS: the third of this report's three major conclusions says there must be a ~>ignificant improve­ ment in search and rescue capability in the Province. I certainly support that, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, without going into detail, this report, which was tabled in the House by the hen. the Minister responsible for the Petroleum Directorate (Mr. Marshall), says that the time lapse between getting aircraft and helicopters from Gaspe and from Prince Edward Island here is just too great, too great indeed.

And the argument can be made that if the weather conditions are bad in the St. John's or the Northeast Coast area, or the Grand Banks area off Newfoundland where most of our shipping and fishing activities take place, what good would it be for a 4S:JO

May 18, 1983 Tape No. 2312 MR. ANDREWS: helicopter to come to St. John's from, say, Gander or a fixed wing from somewhere else, assuming that SD - 1 that machine could not land at St. John's. If is quite possible that the machine could not land in St. John's and highly probable that the machine could not land in St. John's. But if she were in St. John's 1 it is quite possible,and most likely, I would say, that she could take off and get up in the air and be of some assistance. So that would be the necessity of having her based here1 because all marine disasters, Mr. Speaker, are not caused by bad weather.

The important thing here is to have a very close jump-off point, as close as possible. to the Grand Bank's area and to the Northeast Coast and to the Hibernia field. You need the close jump-off point. There may be good weather out there may be bad weather in here so, you have to think about those things, Mr. Speaker. I did mention that, of course, what Mr.

Lamontagne suggested we do for our search and rescue is use these water bombers that are going to cost the Newfoundland Government and the Canadian Government quite a bit of money, of course, they are not built yet and it will take several years to help bail out a company that looks like it is going bankrupt anyway. But, Mr.

Speaker, if this is the mentality of the federal governii"e!lt's and the Armed Forcesl thinking about Newfoundland as an isolated outport and we can get there -you stay where you are until we come where you are at -if that is the mentality of the system that has been created by this left-,.;ing government that denies us a proper and decent Armed Forces-we are the laughingstock 'of NATO, we are the laughingstock of the Western World when it comes to our contributionto NATO-and this is reflected, Mr. Speaker, in our capability 4SJ1

May 18, 1983 Taoe No . 2312 so - 2 MR . ANDREI -IS: to have aircraft that can fly at night, that can search at night. MR . NEARY: You are the laughingstock of Burgeo . MR. ANDRENS : You are the laughingstock. You onlv won by twenty -one votes in LaPoile district. So, Mr . Speaker , maybe Mr . Lamontagne is correct, maybe he is right , that these water bombers that we are going to build to douse the forest, maybe these would be better than the planes and the helicopters that are available or will be available in four years from now . Maybe he is right . And if he is , what we have 4832

May 18,1983 Tape No. 2313 ah-1 MR. ANDREWS: to do then we will have to do it, like we offered to take over the operation of the Shoe Cove tracking station. There is an advanced, scientific, Western,civilized,government philosophy for you -close down one of the few tracking stations in Canada, certainly the only one on the East Coast of the nation, close it down, we do nat need it. And what was needed there was improvement, Mr. Speaker, more technology, more equipment. MR. DOYLE: We are going to build on in Thailand. MR.ANDREWS: Yes, we are going to build one in Thailand.

We would be a lot better sending them over a new improved strain of rice instead of a satellite station. Tear it down and scrap it. I think it would have cost, if my figures are correct - I could be off - in the range of less than $1 million to put some of the most sophisticated equipment· in there. As a matter of fact,if the equipment that was there was permitted to stay there,I believe we could have used additional equipment that will be coming on stream by the latest American space shuttle machine. So, Mr. Speaker, I think this is a problem of the psychology of how we spend money in this country.

Obviously we are not going to spend any money on the military and we have not spent any money on the military. This government in Ottawa has no intention of spending any money on the military and that is reflected in the equipment that we have available in this country. I will tell you how much money we spend on the military. I was in Halifax the Summer before last and I saw eighty tanks for the Canadian Army rolling off a German built ship. 4SJ3

May 18, 1983 Tape No. 2313 ah - 2 MR. ANDREWS : The tanks were built in Germany and were being sent out to some military base on · the prairies for the Canadian army. There is foresight and there is dedication and there is c::ommi. tment for you - a nation that do _es not have enou _gh trQops now to stop a riot on Yonge Street. MR • . NEARY: not be so stupid. MR . ANDREWS : They were NATO tanks, boy. Do They were bought by the Canadian government for the Canadian Armed Forces, Mr. Speaker. Now, Mr.

Speaker, in closing I would like to endorse the remarks made by my colleague, the President of the council, the Minister responsible for Energy(Mr. Marshall) when Mr. Lamontagne was here. He said Mr. Lamontagne's vi .sit was for nothing more than to maintain_the status quo. I differ with my colleague 4934

May 18, 1983 Tape 2314 EC - 1 MR. ANDREWS: that he was here to maintain the status quo, Mr. Speaker. I would say if he did that he bluffed most Newfoundlanders. He was not even attempting to do that. Without an improve­ ment in this Search and Rescue service that we have, not only in Newfoundland, in all of Atlantic Canada, we are downgrading ourselves, we are downgrading Canadians, we are downgrading the fishermen and the mariners of Canada. There have been so many inquiries, so many reports written, the last one being this one, March, 1983 by the Petroleum Directorate.

The reports into the Arctic Explorer -the Arctic Explorer sank in the Strait of Belle Isle off Belle Isle - I believe the cornmision on that inquiry indicated that an improved Search and Rescue would have been of great assistance in possibly saving some lives there. ·Mr. Speaker, my time is just about up. I do not think I have been emotional; I have tried not to be emotional, I have tried to be just as unemotional as the member for Terra Nova (Mr. Lush), but I do not think that you can really talk about this without being emotional. I think it is in the Canadian psyche or this government's psyche certainly.

When the Second World War broke out, if I remember, this country of ours which was called Canada -we were not a member at that time -had a total number of six commissioned fighting ships. When the war ended, Canada had the fourth largest navy in the world and we built that navy during the period of the war. It was built by Canadians with Canadian technology. Canadians who had built tractors and trucks and automobiles were put in the business of making ships and tanks and guns 4SJ5

Ma y 1 8, 1983 Tape 2314 EC - 2 MR . AND RE WS: for the war effort. We have let that pride slip, Mr. Speaker. That pride has slipped out of our hands as Canadians. We had no armed forces. That pride that we lost is reflected in the ability of our S.earch and Rescue, which is a military operation, a parar.tilitary operation. It has been proven over and over and over again. I do not think that any ~ritime country with such a long coastline, with such adverse weather conditions that prevail from time to time, would permit ~his to happen. SOME HON • MEMBERS : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Hear, hear! 40J6

Ma y 18, 1983 MR. SPEAKER (A ylward) : White Bay. MR. RIDEOUT: Tape No. 2315 SD - 1 The han. member for Baie Verte - Mr. Speaker, with agreement from the other side , I would like to provide the information to the House on behalf of the Premier regarding questions asked by the han. member for Fogo (Mr. Tulk) and the han. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary), I believe, on Fishery Products. MR. SPEAKER: MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: r.-'..R. NEARY: MR. RIDEOUT: Is it agreed to grant leave to the member? Mr. Speaker. The han. Leader of the Opposition. Is this in the fonn of a Ministerial State:rrent? No, Mr.

Speaker, I just have the information. I will table it, andit can be distributed to the hon. gentlemen,if that is okay? MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: MR. RIDEOUT: here. MR. SPEAKER: MR. CALLAN: That is fine. By leave. I have a couple of extra copies The han. member for Bellevue. Mr. Speaker, as the member for Terra Nova (Mr. Lush),who spoke from our side of the House earlier in the afternoonsaid, we on this side of the House do not intend to oppose this resolution. Itis not our intention to oppose this re