Alberta Hansard — 27 February 2002, Afternoon sitting (13:30) (Legislature 25, Session 2)

20020227

Alberta — Debates (Hansard)

February 27, 2002 Alberta Hansard 7 Legislative Assembly of Alberta Title: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:30 p.m. Date: 02/02/27 [The Speaker in the chair] head: Prayers THE SPEAKER: Good afternoon. I would ask members to remain standing after prayers so that we may pay tribute to a former colleague who has passed away since we were last in the House. As we commence proceedings today in this Assembly, we ask for divine guidance so that our words and deeds may bring to all people of this great province hope, prosperity, and a vision for the future. Amen. Mr.

John Dubetz July 7, 1916, to February 12, 2002 THE SPEAKER: On Tuesday, February 12, 2002, John Dubetz passed away. Mr. Dubetz represented the constituency of Redwater for the Social Credit Party. Mr. Dubetz was first elected in the election held on June 18, 1959, and served until May 9, 1963. During his years of service in the Legislature Mr. Dubetz served on the select standing committees on Private Bills; Public Accounts; Agriculture, Colonization, Immigration and Education; Municipal Law; and Railways, Telephones and Irrigation.

With our admiration and respect there is gratitude to members of his family, who shared the burdens of public office. Members of Mr. Dubetz’s family are with us today in the Speaker’s gallery. Our prayers are with them. In a moment of silent prayer I ask you to remember the hon. member John Dubetz as you have known him. Rest eternal grant unto him, O Lord, and let light perpetual shine upon him. Amen. Please be seated. head: Introduction of Visitors THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Redwater. MR. BRODA: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is an honour for me to rise today to introduce to you and through you to the members of the Assembly the family of Mr. John Dubetz, former MLA for the Redwater constituency. They are Mrs. Doris Dubetz, the widow of John Dubetz; Mr. Alvin Dubetz, son; Ms Bonnie Dubetz, daughter; Ms Evelyn Krawchuk, daughter; Ms Karen Bodner, daughter; Mr. Henry Bodner, son-in-law, husband to Karen Bodner; Mr. Darcy Dubetz, son; and Mrs. Donna Dubetz, daughter-in-law, Darcy’s wife. They are seated in your gallery, Mr. Speaker.

I would ask them to please rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of this Assembly. head: Introduction of Guests THE SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Justice and Attorney General. MR. HANCOCK: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s my pleasure today to introduce to you and through you to members of this Assembly 40 grade 6 students and their teachers Mrs. Natalie Gago-Esteves and Laurie Ewald from the Brander Gardens elementary school in my constituency of Edmonton-Whitemud. They’re here today to observe and learn with keen interest about our government, and they’re seated in the members’ gallery.

I must say that I was advised by the tour guides that these are exemplary students and showed a great deal of interest and respect as they had their tour through the Assembly this afternoon. I’d ask that they please rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of the Assembly. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Airdrie-Rocky View. MS HALEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. It’s a real honour for me today to be able to introduce to you and through you to our colleagues in the Assembly a gentleman from the fine town of Castor, Alberta, from the constituency of Wainwright.

He’s a teacher, a longtime rancher, and our brand-new PC candidate for the area of Wainwright. We’re all very hopeful that he will work hard and win the respect, honour, and privilege of representing that riding and be able to join us in this Assembly. Would you please welcome with me Mr. Doug Griffiths, and I’d ask him to rise and receive the warm welcome of this Assembly. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for St. Albert. MRS. O’NEILL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s my privilege this afternoon to introduce to you and through you to members of this Assembly 57 visitors from Albert Lacombe school in St. Albert.

They are seated in both the members’ gallery and the general gallery, and they are accompanied by their teachers Mrs. Trish Lema and Ms Connie Ohl and also by parents who are accompanying them today on the visit, the tour, Mrs. Marlen Duval, Mrs. Ruth Robinson, Mrs. Jacqueline Harlton, and Mrs. Cathy Pavelich. I would ask that everyone here extend a warm welcome to these visitors as they rise, please, in the galleries. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Riverview. DR. TAFT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today with two sets of introductions. One is students from St.

Martin Catholic school whom I’d like to introduce through you to all Members of the Legislative Assembly. They are accompanied today by their teacher Mrs. Olia Libicz and two parents, Mr. Greg Ostopowich and Mrs. Diane Marshall. I’d ask them to rise and receive the warm welcome of the Assembly. The other introduction is some special visitors who are here today to watch the Legislature’s debate on education and schooling in Alberta. Their names are Patti Lynn Chevalier, Valerie Warke, Verne Workun, Jean Hodgkinson, and Sherry Robbins. I’d ask them to rise and receive our welcome. Thank you. THE SPEAKER: The hon.

Member for Medicine Hat. MR. RENNER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s my pleasure today to introduce to you and through you to members of the Assembly a guest of mine whom I’ve had the pleasure of hosting for the past two days. She joined us in the House yesterday for the speech from Her Honour, and she’s joining us today for question period. Jennifer Davies is a teacher from Medicine Hat who teaches grade 8 social studies. She’s looking very much forward to returning to her classroom tomorrow and sharing the experiences that she’s had in the Legislative Assembly over the past few days.

I would ask that Jennifer rise in the members’ gallery and receive the traditional warm welcome of all members of the Assembly. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre. MS BLAKEMAN: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I’m very

8 Alberta Hansard February 27, 2002 pleased to rise today and introduce to you and through you to members of the Assembly the following three guests who are seated in the public gallery. These are Albertans concerned about educa- tion, and they’re here to listen to the discussion on education this afternoon. I would ask them to rise as I read out their names: Lorne Sparks, Noel Somerville, and Glen Huser. They’re joining us, and I ask you to give them a warm welcome, please. Thank you. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Leader of the Official Opposition. DR. NICOL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to introduce four guests that are in the public gallery. These are Albertans that are concerned about education. They’re Rabinder Sara, Kevan Rhead, Olive Thorne, and Gordon Health. I’d ask them to rise and be recognized by the Legislature. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Ellerslie. MS CARLSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to introduce to you and through you to all Members of the Legislative Assembly the following visitors, which include some educators who are here to watch over the government’s actions on education. They are Fran Losie, Jean Rogers, and Linda Howitt-Taylor.

I would ask that they please rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of this Assembly. 1:40 THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Lac La Biche-St. Paul. MR. DANYLUK: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. It is my great pleasure to introduce to you and through you to members of this Assembly a special guest visiting us today from the Lac La Biche-St. Paul constituency. Many hon. members will recognize Debra Lozinski as the former reeve of Lakeland county. She has always been a strong agricultural supporter and farms in the Hylo community.

Debra Lozinski is seated in the members’ gallery this afternoon, and I would ask her to please rise and r eceive the traditional warm welcome of this Assembly. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Mill Woods. DR. MASSEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s my pleasure to introduce to you and through you to all members of the Assembly three very keen and experienced educators: Marguerite Meneely, Lynda Somerville, and Gail Gates. They’re in the public gallery, and with your permission I would ask them to rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of the Assembly. THE SPEAKER: The hon.

Member for Edmonton-Glengarry. MR. BONNER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I would like to introduce to you and through you to all members of the Assembly the following guests. These are Albertans who are very concerned about public education, and they are here to monitor our discussions on education today. They are Merv Rogers, Christine Witherspoon, and Joanna Weston. They are seated in the public gallery, and with your permission I would ask them now to rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of the Assembly. Thank you. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Beverly- Clareview. MR.

YANKOWSKY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s a pleasure for me to rise and introduce to you and through you my daughter Jackie, who is seated in the members’ gallery. She dropped by to watch question period. I’d like to ask her to stand at this time and receive the very warm welcome of this Assembly. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar. MR. MacDONALD: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I rise to introduce to you and through you to all hon. Members of the Legislative Assembly four Albertans.

These Albertans are con- cerned about the state of public education in Alberta and have been kind enough to join us this afternoon for the discussion. These Albertans are in the public gallery, and I would ask them to now rise as I call their names: Clarence Collins, Prem Kalia, Aileen Taylor, and Bill Kobluk. If they would now rise and receive the warm welcome of the Assembly, I would be very grateful. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Highwood. MR. TANNAS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to introduce to you and through you to all members of the Assembly two special guests who are seated in your gallery this afternoon. Mr. Peter Bray is the legislative comptroller with the British Columbia Legislative Assembly, and Ms Pat Bryant is with the office of the legislative comptroller of British Columbia. They are visiting Alberta to review how the Alberta Legislative Assembly deals with financial issues, and I would ask them now to both rise and receive the warm traditional welcome of this Assembly. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Children’s Services. MS EVANS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I wish to introduce to you and through you to this Assembly two longtime residents of Sherwood Park, Philip and Brenda Welwood. Philip has been in the banking industry for over 25 years and is currently the regional investment manager of Clarica. Brenda is the exemplary administra- tive support for the hon. Member for Rocky Mountain House. I would ask that they rise now and receive a warm welcome as we applaud their attendance here this afternoon. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Seniors. MR. WOLOSHYN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I’d like to introduce to you and through you to the Assembly a gentleman who’s becoming very well known in the province in the last few months, and he’s here also to observe the proceedings of the Legislature. I’d ask the president of the Alberta Teachers’ Association, Mr. Larry Booi, to stand and receive the warm welcome of the House. head: Statement by the Speaker Standing Orders Amendments THE SPEAKER: Hon. members, before we progress too far in the proceedings, the chair wishes to remind everyone that today the Assembly will be operating under the amendments to the Standing Orders passed last November.

By looking at the front page of the Order Paper on desks today, members will note that the daily Routine has changed. Many of the items of business that took place before Oral Question Period will now occur after question period. I refer specifically to presenting reports by committees of the Assembly, Presenting Petitions, Notices of Motions, Introduction of Bills, and the tabling of returns and reports.

February 27, 2002 Alberta Hansard 9 Immediately after question period on Mondays and Wednesdays we will have Recognitions. On Tuesdays and Thursdays Members’ Statements will follow question period. Consideration of points of order and privilege will be considered after the business in the daily Routine but before the calling of Orders of the Day. With respect to petitions, members will note that there is no longer an item of business for Reading and Receiving Petitions.

Under the amendments of Standing Orde r 83(3) petitions must now be approved by Parliamentary Counsel at least one sitting day prior to the petition being presented. Only those petitions that are in order can be presented. The fact that tablings now follow question period in the daily Routine may require some adjustments in how members conduct themselves. The chair does not want to see question period become the time for tablings. If members have items that they want to table, it should be done under tablings, not during question period.

If there are documents referred to during question period, then they should be tabled but at the appropriate time in the Routine. The chair realizes that it may work an unfairness for members not to have the ability to review a document referred to by another member in a question or answer. It should be pointed out that the chair did not set these rules but must try to enforce them as passed by the Assembly. As with all new procedures members and the chair will have to see how they work.

The chair would also remind members that the amendments to the Standing Orders make it clear that items tabled must be in printed form. Under the new Standing Order 37.1(1) any member, not simply cabinet ministers, may table a document by providing it to the Clerk’s office before 11 a.m. on any day the Assembly sits. However, the document will not be considered tabled until the Clerk reads the title of the document at the appropriate time in the daily Routine.

The chair will have some additional comments concerning the operation of business when we proceed to Orders of the Day. head: Ministerial Statements THE SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. Olympic Athletes MR. KLEIN: Thank you. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to offer the congratulations of the government of Alberta and of all Albertans to the Alberta-based athletes who represented the province and the nation with such distinction at the 2002 Winter Olympic Games in Salt Lake City. At the appropriate time today letters of congratula- tions that I sent to medal-winning Alberta athletes will be tabled in the Legislature.

It will be a big stack of letters, 21 in all. Mr. Speaker, the fact that so many of Canada’s medal winners are from Alberta or train in Alberta is a tremendous credit to the amateur sports programs offered in this prov ince. It is also a credit to the skill of Alberta coaches and trainers and to the dedication of parents, families, and volunteers, all of whom make a vital contribution to the success of the athletes in this province.

The work of those people and people like them across Canada was never more rewarded than by the exciting performances of our Olympic athletes in Salt Lake City during the Winter Olympics. Canadian athletes set records for medals this year, an achievement that has made all Canadians exceptionally proud, but the athletes did more than win medals. They represented our country with utmost dignity and class. Whether they won medals or not, Canadian athletes showed the very best of the Olympic spirit and the qualities of teamwork and perseverance that distinguish the Olympic athlete.

Here in Alberta the Olympic Games were followed with intense interest by people in all parts of the province. This pride was based not simply on where an athlete finished in competition. It was based more on the fact that every athlete gave his or her best. That is the true value of sports, and it is a value that all Alberta athletes brought to their performances. Canadian pride was not only evident in the performance of the nation’s athletes. It was also fueled by a mischievous act of true Canadian spirit. A young gentleman by the name of Mr.

Trent Evans, as members of the Assembly have probably heard, is the renowned Edmonton icemaker who was part of the ice crew for the Olympic hockey tournaments. In the course of his work Mr. Evans quietly planted a Canadian loonie beneath the surface of centre ice. 1:50 Now, I don’t know if this act brought good luck to the Canadian hockey teams. The fact that both teams won gold suggests that they didn’t need any good-luck charms, but the gesture by Mr. Evans was a true indication that the Canadian spirit is difficult, if not impossi- ble, to repress.

I should also add that the Alberta and Canadian pride shown by Mr. Evans clearly was inherited from his parents, for his mother is none other than the hon. Minister of Children’s Services. So congratulations, Minister, for raising a son who has earned international recognition not only for his icemaking skills but also for his national pride. In closing, Mr. Speaker, I again extend my congratulations to all Canadian Olympic athletes. I extend those congratulations on behalf of all members of this Assembly and all Albertans and my thanks to them for making all Canadians so proud of their country.

We will always remember the thrills and excitement they brought to all of us. Thank you. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Leader of the Official Opposition. DR. NICOL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m pleased to rise and offer congratulations from the Official Opposition to Canada’s Winter Olympics team. In particular we can be proud of the Albertans and Alberta-based athletes who participated in the Salt Lake City games. In fact, Alberta athletes made up almost a quarter of Canada’s team. The success of these athletes is something we all take pride in.

They are driven, determined young people pursuing a dream that embodies a relentless Canadian spirit. We commend our Olympic team for their commitment, dedication, and fortitude in pursuit of personal excellence. A province and nation watched and cheered with untold pride, patriotism, and respect. We would also like to commend those parents, family, friends, and communities that have supported our athletes in their quest to get to the Olympics. They, too, exhibit Olympic spirit and are an important part of this success. The passion of the athletes and their supporters has captured this nation.

We will all remember the excitement of our gold medal women’s and men’s hockey matches, the heart-stopping events in figure skating, and the thrill of seeing so many of our athletes achieve medal performances or their personal bests. The recent Olympic performances will help to make the winter of 2002 memorable. Mr. Speaker, I will close by again congratulating our Olympians, their families, their communities for a job well done. They have stirred a pride and patriotism that many of us did not know was there. Their efforts do embody a true north strong and free. Thank you.

THE SPEAKER: Hon. members, before we proceed to the next

10 Alberta Hansard February 27, 2002 order of business, I must apologize. I neglected to call on an hon. member during Introduction of Guests. Might we revert briefly? [Unanimous consent granted] head: Introduction of Guests (reversion) THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Calgary-Currie. MR. LORD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s my great pleasure to rise today and introduce to you and through you to all members of this Assembly two friends of mine who are also representatives of the Progressive Group for Independent Business who are here today.

This is a group that is very involved in trying to address the many important issues affecting small businesses throughout Canada. Today seated in the members’ gallery we have the admittedly controversial national president, Mr. Craig Chandler, who has come here today to see for himself what a great government we have here in Alberta, and team member Mark Lachance as well. I ask that they rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of the Assembly. head: Oral Question Period THE SPEAKER: First main question. The hon. Leader of the Official Opposition. Education System DR. NICOL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This government has ordered teachers back to work. For all the day-to-day issues in our education system this move provides nothing but a quick fix, but it does not provide a cure. The public needs to know if the government has a plan for addressing the issues that led to the job action in the first place. My questions are to the Premier. Mr. Premier, does the government have a plan for reducing class sizes? MR. KLEIN: Mr.

Speaker, we do have a plan for education, and it is a plan that has evolved to certainly give our students the opportu- nity to excel in education, as has been pointed out by the minister on a number of occasions relative to the way students score on interna- tional tests. Relative to the specifics of the question, I’ll have the hon. minister respond. DR. OBERG: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. In about September or October of this year we undertook a survey of all schools in Alberta to determine exactly what the class size was. From the kindergarten to grade 6 age group the average class size was 23.

In kindergarten it was 19.7. In grades 1 to 6 it was 23.6. So we feel that the flexibility that is given to the school boards is by far the most important issue, and indeed in talking to the school boards since that time, almost to a T the school boards say that they want the flexibility to be able to determine what the class size is. We have visitors from British Columbia here today, and they are probably one of the best examples of what happens when a Legisla- ture legislates class size. In British Columbia the Legislature legislated a class size of around 23, I believe, and it was going down to 22. Well, Mr.

Speaker, if your child was child number 24, your child didn’t get into that class. That child would be bused to another school down the road. That is the fact of what happened, and we have evidence of that here today. So, Mr. Speaker, we feel that, yes, class sizes are important, that smaller class sizes are important, but we also feel that what is equally very important is the flexibility that our democratically elected school boards have to determine the class size. THE SPEAKER: The hon. leader. DR. NICOL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Resources are necessary to implement that flexibility.

My second question to the Premier: does the government have a plan to give schools the resources they need so that parents no longer have to fund-raise for basics? MR. KLEIN: Mr. Speaker, again I would point out that certainly there’s been an increase, a substantial increase, over the last five years for educational funding.

For the first time, as I’ve pointed out many times, a line item was put in last year’s budget guaranteeing teachers at least 6 percent, an unprecedented step, if I may say, in terms of budgeting with the ability of the teachers, of course, to negotiate – that is, the unions of the various locals to negotiate – with the various school jurisdictions for more if indeed that’s where the school jurisdictions feel that they want to spend their money. It’s the opinion of the members of this government caucus that, indeed, sufficient resources are being allocated to education.

In fact, we have identified education as a priority, one of the top priorities of this government, and the increase in funding – I believe it’s 40 percent over the last five years – is indicative of this government’s commitment to education. THE SPEAKER: The hon. leader. DR. NICOL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Premier tell Albertans also that that increase that you’re talking about was not enough to cover the cost of increased enrollments or the cost of increased input costs associated with providing education? MR. KLEIN: Mr. Speaker, that is all taken into account before and during the budget process.

Relative to the specifics as it relates to three-year business plans and so on, I’ll have the hon. minister respond. DR. OBERG: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I think what the Premier said needs to be underscored and continued on with this statement. First of all, since ’95-96 funding for education in this province has increased by 41 percent. The hon. opposition is talking about ’92-93. The system today is much different than it was in ’92- 93. We had 165 school boards, some that had no schools. So obviously it is a different system here today. It has gone up 41 percent.

Teachers’ salaries have gone up 17 percent. Enrollment has gone up around 6 percent. So, Mr. Speaker, these are some of the issues that are out there. We feel very strongly about education on this side of the House. It is important, it is our future, and we will continue to assure that our stude nts will always get the best results in the world, as they did this year. 2:00 THE SPEAKER: Second main question. The Leader of the Official Opposition. DR. NICOL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. During the teachers’ strike the government said over and over again: there is no more money. This isn’t exactly true.

Accordin g to the latest quarterly fiscal update, the government has almost $2.5 billion set aside for future debt repayment, and at least half a billion dollars of this won’t be used until the end of the next fis cal year. Will the government use just a fraction of this to solve th e crisis that’s in our education system right now?

February 27, 2002 Alberta Hansard 11 MR. KLEIN: Mr. Speaker, relative to that specific question I believe that the hon. Minister of Finance has a very good answer. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hello? MRS. NELSON: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. No, I won’t start this term off with “Hello?” We did do a briefing today on the third-quarter update, that all members have received and which I will be filing at the appropriate time in the House this afternoon. The hon. leader opposite was present.

What he is actually talking about is that last year, not this current fiscal year, we were able to put aside money to pay off the debt of this province and free up that burden from the very children that we’re talking about in the future and bring down the debt servicing costs in the fu ture for Albertans so that those debt costs could be freed up forever.

The concept that he is putting forward is that we renege on that and go back and take those dollars out, increase the debt, spend beyond our fiscal framework – in other words, run us into a deficit – to resolve an issue that is already dealt with within the fiscal framework of this province.

Now, to bring this analogy close to home, that’s what went on – and I hate to say it – in our neighbouring prov ince of British Columbia, just across the mountains, and that’s why they have moved from the position of being a have province to a have-not province and running $4 b illion of debt on an annual basis and legislating major things. So th e concept of what they’re putting forward is to take the money that has already been put away to pay off our debt, pulling that back, increasing debt, increasing spending, running deficits, and putting it all on the backs of our children and our grandchildren.

That’s their policy, Mr. Speaker. DR. NICOL: Mr. Speaker, bad education affects our children as well. My question is to the Premier. Will the government finally make an official offer to fund the t eachers’ outstanding pension liability without taking the money out of the classroom? MR. KLEIN: Mr. Speaker, that was on the table, notwithstanding what the union boss might have told his membership. That was on the table. It is now off the table because job action has been taken. It was made quite clear before the job action that that would come off the table. It is now off the table, unfortunately.

THE SPEAKER: The hon. minister. DR. OBERG: Thank you. I just want to add one point, Mr. Speaker. In the hon. Leader of the Opposition’s

preamble he mentioned bad results for students. In the recent exams – I just really need to reiterate this for this House – we finished number one in the world. That isn’t just in Canada; that’s the world. Mr. Speaker, there’s one other very key component that came back from those studies. In Alberta we were the only jurisdiction in the world – in the world – where the public system did better than the private system, and we’re very proud of that. THE SPEAKER: The hon. leader. DR. NICOL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

To the Premier: is the government planning on biasing the negotiations again by putting a line item back into the education budget in the next budget period? MR. KLEIN: Mr. Speaker, well, I’ll announce it now. The budget will be tabled, I believe, on March 19, so wait and see. I’m not going to discuss the budget now. There will be plenty of time after the budget is tabled to debate the budget and question the budget, and I’m not going to speculate at this point whether there will be any line items related to any salary relative to any sector at this time. THE SPEAKER: Third Official Opposition main question.

The hon. Member for Edmonton-Mill Woods. Teachers’ Hours and Remuneration DR. MASSEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Surprisingly, given their actions this past year, the government believes that goodwill is important on the part of all parties in the education system. We learned that yesterday. My questions are to the Premier. By lobbing insults from Japan at our teachers about their working hours, was the Premier fostering goodwill? MR. KLEIN: Mr. Speaker, I’m so glad, I’m very, very happy that the hon. member has raised this particular issue, because not everything was reported.

The main thing that wasn’t reported was that there was a challenge in one of the newspapers in a letter to the editor – it wasn’t the Sun, but it was the other paper – where the writer pointed out – and I don’t know if the writer was a teacher or not – that I was going to Japan and I should probably investigate how respected teachers are in Japan. So I asked the question of one of our staffers whose wife happens to be a teacher. She’s been a teacher in Japan for 30 years, and I reported that.

This is what he told me: that his wife works eight hours a day in the classroom – right? – five days a week and two weekends. Two weekends. That is mandatory. She earns the equivalent of about $50,000 Canadian a year, after 30 years of teaching. I said, “Do teachers go on strike in Japan?” and he said, “No, that is out of the question.” THE SPEAKER: The hon. member. DR. MASSEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No matter what the spin, teachers considered it an insult. Mr. Premier, will you begin rebuilding that goodwill with teachers by apologizing to them now for those comments? MR. KLEIN: Mr.

Speaker, why would I apologize for simply reporting what someone said to me? The husband of a teacher who obviously should know what his wife makes and the conditions under which his wife works. Now, what is wrong with that? Nothing. DR. MASSEY: Mr. Speaker, to the Premier again. The teachers considered it an insult. Will you apologize to them? MR. KLEIN: Mr.

Speaker, why would a teacher consider it an insult if I report what the husband of a teacher told me: that teachers in Japan spend eight hours of classroom time a day, work two week- ends a month, and that his wife after 30 years of teaching earns approximately what a teacher in Alberta would earn after 30 years of teaching? What is insulting about that? THE SPEAKER: The hon. leader of the third party, followed by the hon. Member for Drayton Valley-Calmar. Health Care Premiums DR. PANNU: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This Premier and his Tory government pride themselves on cutting taxes, yet in yesterday’s

12 Alberta Hansard February 27, 2002 throne speech this government promised to implement higher health care premiums. If it looks like a tax, if it walks like a tax, if it quacks like a tax, then it is a tax. To the Premier . . . [interjections] THE SPEAKER: It’s quite okay for an hon. member in raising a question to have colourful expressions. The hon. member. DR. PANNU: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. [interjections] 2:10 THE SPEAKER: I think, hon. Premier, the problem here is that the unrehearsed solicitations of expression didn’t allow the hon. leader of the third party to conclude his question.

We still have to get to that point. DR. PANNU: Thank you. My ques tion to the hon. Premier: since he promised Albertans tax reductions, why is this government now proposing a massive increase in the most regressive of all taxes, namely health care premiums? Duck that one, Mr. Premier. MR. KLEIN: I will go on to repeat what I said earlier. There are two provinces in Canada that have premiums as opposed to a payroll tax. The reason we have premiums and the reason British Columbia has premiums is to point out to the population that health care is not free.

You know, unlike the socialist way of sort of hiding it as a payroll tax and increasing taxes like the NDs do all the time, we’re saying that there is a cost to health care, and premiums clearly identify that cost, Mr. Speaker. Speaking to the extent to which health care premiums will be raised, I won’t be specific at this particular time because that is a matter for the budget, which, again, will be tabled on March 19. At that time the Finance minister will outline what the increase is going to be and the rationale for the increase, but I can give the hon. member some hint as to the rationale.

First of all, it was clearly recommended in the Mazankowski report that health care premiums be raised. [interjection] Yes, it was. Read the report. Mr. Speaker, secondly, health care premiums have not been adjusted for a number of years. It is time to adjust those rates to reflect the true cost of insuring services that are insurable services under Alberta health, and that hasn’t been done for some time. THE SPEAKER: The hon. leader. DR. PANNU: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My second question to the Premier: why has the Premier turned his back on seniors, on municipalities, and on business groups like the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, all of whom strongly oppose hiking health care premiums? MR. KLEIN: Mr. Speaker, we haven’t turned our backs on anyone. What we are proposing to do is the responsible thing and, I would point out, the reasonable thing, not only responsible but reasonable. It’s a plan that will protect seniors, that will protect low-income Albertans. AN HON. MEMBER: And the NDP. MR. KLEIN: I don’t know. There are some rich members of the NDs. Mr.

Speaker, it will reflect the real cost, the real and reasonable cost, of delivering health care services, especially as it relates to those services that are covered by health care premiums. THE SPEAKER: The hon. leader. DR. PANNU: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. How can the Premier justify targeting seniors and average Alberta families by hiking their health care premiums just so he can pay for further reductions in corporate income taxes in the next three years? MR. KLEIN: Mr. Speaker, the hon. leader of the third party alluded to seniors.

I specifically pointed out that seniors, as they are protected in a number of other instances, will be protected, at least the low-income to middle-income seniors, relative to health care premiums. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Drayton Valley-Calmar, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar. Teachers’ Labour Dispute REV. ABBOTT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was very pleased to see this government take action to he lp Alberta students to obtain the education that they need and deserve. My question is for clarity purposes only, and it’s to the Minister of Human Resources and Employment.

How does this order affect the boards and locals that were not on strike on February 21 but have since taken a strike vote, such as the Timberline local and the Wild Rose school division teachers in my constituency? MR. DUNFORD: Mr. Speaker, the order in council was quite clear, declaring the unreasonable hardship, but also to the appendix it listed 22 particular disputes that were in progress. That order does not impact or reflect on any of the other ongoing disputes. THE SPEAKER: The hon. member. REV. ABBOTT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

To the same minister: if a strike should occur in some of these other unaffected locals, will the minister consider declaring an emergency after a similar time period has elapsed, as in the first order? MR. DUNFORD: I’d like to point out to the hon. member and to other members here in the House that it’s not the minister that declares the emergency. The Labour Relations Code contemplates that in the opinion of the Lieutenant Governor in Council, thus meaning the cabinet. It’s cabinet that would make that decision. REV. ABBOTT: Thank you for the clarification. My second supplemental is to the Minister of Learning.

Is the minister prepared to bring legislation forward to protect the educa- tion of Alberta students in the future? THE SPEAKER: The hon. minister. DR. OBERG: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. On Friday of this week we will be having a very important court challenge that has been initiated by the ATA. We will wait for that, but I have given my assurances to the 37,000 grade 12 students, to the 550,000 students in Alberta that we will do what it takes to ensure that the teachers are not out on strike but, rather, in the classroom. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar, followed by the hon.

Member for Calgary-East. MR. MacDONALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This government had

February 27, 2002 Alberta Hansard 13 a chance to find a solution to the teachers’ concerns before a strike began. My first question this afternoon is to the Minister of Human Resources and Employment. Why didn’t the minister strike a disputes inquiry board to try and negotiate a solution before February 4? THE SPEAKER: The hon. minister. MR. DUNFORD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Disputes inquiry boards of course are part of the Labour Relations Code and have been used in the past in various disputes that were either ongoing or had actually gone into a strike situation.

I want to point out to the hon. member that a disputes inquiry board would look at a situation to see if there was anything that was unclear, anything that was confusing about a particular issue, and if there was any particular hope in being able to cause a recommendation that might bring the parties to an agreement. I think that not only at the time but in retrospect we can see that a disputes inquiry board would only have delayed the situation. I would think on behalf of all teachers, of all parents and children that if we were to have a situation develop, February would probably be the month to have it happen.

THE SPEAKER: The hon. member. MR. MacDONALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My second question is to the Minister of Learning. Did the hon. minister oppose a disputes inquiry board because it would not take away the teachers’ right to strike, which is ultimately what this minister and this government wants to do? Thank you. DR. OBERG: Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member I’m sure knows and as the hon. Minister of Human Resources and Employment just alluded to, the disputes inquiry board is a mechanism for mediation.

The contracts between the teachers’ union and the sc hool boards were up in September of this year – that is when they ran out – so they have been without a contract for roughly five or six months. They had that time in which to undertake mediation, and indeed many of them did undertake mediation. B ecause of one means or the other the mediation efforts were stonewalled, so I did not make the recommendation. Obviously, it is the Minister of Human Resources and Employment who makes this decision. But I think we have to be realistic. Mediation was going nowhere.

To give it another month of mediation, to cause a month of undue hardship to students I think is a problem. THE SPEAKER: The hon. member. MR. MacDONALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My third question this afternoon is to the Premier. Is the Premier planning any punitive action in legislation against the ATA? MR. KLEIN: No. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Calgary-East, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Glengarry. 2:20 Kyoto Accord MR. AMERY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the hon. Minister of Environment.

Recent studies and reports by the Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters indicate that severe economic pain will be inflicted on the Canadian economy as a result of the implementation of the Kyoto accord. Could the Minister of Environment advise the House and Albertans as to what the impact will be on the provincial economy if the accord is ratified by the Canadian government? THE SPEAKER: The hon. minister. DR. TAYLOR: Thank you very much. The issue is one of a range of risk, and certainly in Alberta we’ve done a great deal of analysis. We’ve used some Australian modeling groups called ABARE.

We’ve used our own modeling groups and different modeling groups, plus we’ve had these numbers validated or examined by university economists inside the province. What we have is a number in a range. What we’re estimating is our range of risk based on a 200 megatonne, or 200 million tonne, gap between the Kyoto target and where we are today. In fact, the gap is much larger than that. We know and the federal government just has admitted that the gap is not 200 million, not 160 million, but 240 million tonnes.

So for Alberta what this means at a 200 million tonne gap – and we know it’s already bigger than 200 million, and by the end of the year we’ll be able to validate the gap of someplace around 280 million to 300 million tonnes. We already know the price to Alberta, based on 200 million – so we know it’s a conservative estimate – in a range of risk will be someplace between $2.9 billion and $5.5 billion, and that’s a conservative estimate. We know that will cost Alberta someplace between 40, 000 and 70,000 jobs. Now, are these numbers right?

Well, just yesterday we had an economist from a university in Ontario, who is not associated with us in any way, who has done his own analysis and reported: Alberta’s numbers are right; it is the federal government and the federal Ministry of the Environ- ment that are flat wrong. THE SPEAKER: The hon. member. MR. AMERY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the same minister. Since the United States of America, our largest trading partner, did not and will not sign the accord and opted for a made-in-America solution, did the Minister of Environment suggest to his federal counterpart a made-in-Canada solution?

THE SPEAKER: The hon. minister. DR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Not only did the U.S. not sign the accord, but 92 percent of Canadian trade and 92 percent of Canadian trade partners are in noncompliance. So only 8 percent of our trade is in compliance or will be in compliance with the Kyoto accord. That’s one thing. In terms of a North American policy, we have encouraged the federal government to seek a policy that would cover the U.S., Mexico, and Canada. The Europeans can meet their targets because they have what is called a European bubble.

For instance, Portugal can increase its emissions by something in the neighbourhood of 37 percent. So what they’ve done is they’ve just moved that around Europe and given it to Germany and given it to the U.K. and said, “We’re meeting our targets,” without any significant, real reduc- tions. So that’s why we’re argu ing with the federal government: because our major trading partner is the U.S., Mexico is a major competitor, and Venezuela is a major competitor, we need a North American or even a hemispheric model. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Glengarry, followed by the hon.

Member for Olds-Didsbury-Three Hills.

14 Alberta Hansard February 27, 2002 Heritage Savings Trust Fund MR. BONNER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. My first question today is to the Premier. Why is your government planning to use Alberta’s nest egg, the heritage fund, to cover your govern- ment’s mismanagement of the province’s finances? MR. KLEIN: I really don’t know where you get that notion. You know, perhaps it comes from my media scrum yesterday, where I said – and I’ve said it many times before – that if there’s one thing that’s true in politics, it is that yes means yes, maybe means yes, and no means maybe.

Very simply I said that, yes, th ere’s been some informal discus- sion about what should be done with the heritage savings trust fund. All members of caucus have different ideas as to what should be done with that fund, but the hon. Minister of Revenue has the matter under consideration. There’s been no formal discussion in caucus or cabinet about the future of the fund, and as I pointed out yesterday in the media scrum, the status quo prevails. Today the status quo prevails.

Nothing has been decided relative to the future of the fund, but I imagine that down the road it will be a topic of discussion certainly amongst government caucus members and perhaps eventually in the Legislature. Who knows? THE SPEAKER: The hon. member. MR. BONNER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Again to the Premier. As of last night the Premier said that there were rain showers in Alberta. What has caused this drastic change in weather in government policy from last night until today? THE SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. MR. KLEIN: Yes, Mr. Speaker. Again, what radio broadcast was he listening to?

Did he question the reporter as to whether the reporter was perhaps paraphrasing or interpreting something that I said? I’ll tell you precisely what I said in the news conference yesterday. I was asked specifically: is it raining? I said: in my mind it’s not raining, but we’ve had sprinkles from time to time. But, no, we’re not experiencing a rainstorm right now. Unlike virtually every other jurisdiction in this country we’re still budgeting, according to the third-quarter update, for an $18 million surplus.

Albeit small and a lot less than last year, nonetheless we’re in better shape than virtually every other jurisdiction in this country, Mr. Speaker. So it’s not raining. THE SPEAKER: The hon. member. MR. BONNER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Premier again. Will the Premier be sending a note to the co-chairs of the Future Summit and asking them to remove any recommendations about spending the heritage fund from their final report? MR. KLEIN: No. If I get into that, Mr. Speaker, then someone else might say: Mr. Premier, you write the co-chairs and have them remove or add something.

The Future Summit was an Albertans’ exercise, and it was open and accessible to all the delegates. What made the summit so successful was that it was open and everything was on the table. We’ll go through those recommendations and give them our fullest consideration. Mr. Speaker, I’ll have the hon. Minister of Revenue supplement the question. MR. MELCHIN: Mr. Speaker, the Future Summit was an outstand- ing conference of delegates, a great cross

section of Albertans. It was a chance for them to voice their opinions on a whole variety of topics. There was a chance for them to even talk about things such as the Alberta heritage savings trust fund. I would find it quite offensive that we would then go back to delegates and tell them that we didn’t listen, that we don’t care to have the recommendations even written up in a report. It is imperative that we allow through a summit the voices of Albertans to come forward. That report will be completed by the end of April.

We’re looking forward to analyzing all those recom- mendations and will report to it in due course. Thank you. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Olds-Didsbury-Three Hills, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre. Bighorn Wildlife Recreation Area MR. MARZ: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My first question today is to the Minister of Sustainable Resource Development. The Bighorn backcountry area is a very large area, rich in resources, and a very popular spot for many recreational activities.

I’ve recently received many calls and letters and another 52 letters just today from various recreational user groups including off-highway vehicle users, trail riders, and environmental groups, all with a very diverse set of opinions on how this pristine area should be managed. Now, with all these competing demands, how is this government going to resolve the issue of responsible access to this area in a way that meets the needs of Albertans? THE SPEAKER: The hon. minister. MR. CARDINAL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. That’s a very good question.

Of course the Bighorn backcountry is a very important area in Alberta. The area covers over 4,000 square kilometers, and about 80 percent of that, of course, is in the prime protection area of the eastern slopes policy. 2:30 Mr.

Speaker, there are competing interests, of course, as far as access to the area, from environmental to recreational to i ndustrial development, so what we’ve done is set up a committee of 15 independent members along with seven departments to look at laying out a plan, looking at areas such as the existing usage and looking at how we may minimize the imprint we leave once development takes place, and also to achieve a balance for Albertans between the economic development and the environmental manage- ment. I just want to mention a few of the representatives that are representing the public, Mr. Speaker.

One is the petroleum industry, trail riding, fisheries, environment, off-highway vehicle users, and residents of the Clearwater area also. So it is a very important area, and keep in mind that there will always be a balance. MR. MARZ: My second question to the same minister: what is this 15-member advisory group or panel specifically doing to consult with Albertans about the use of this area? MR. CARDINAL: Mr.

Speaker, first of all, these 15 members are well qualified, and some of them represent agencies that already do a lot of work in the regions, in all the sectors in fact, and this group, of course, has developed a web site where individuals can contact the group. In addition to that, we are setting up a meeting on March

February 27, 2002 Alberta Hansard 15 14 in Rocky Mountain House, where the public will be invited to attend and participate in the design of the process. MR. MARZ: My final question, Mr. Speaker, is to the same minister. When will Albertans know what the advisory group is recommending, and will there be an opportunity to respond to those recommendations? THE SPEAKER: The hon. minister. MR. CARDINAL: Yeah, Mr. Speaker. What I expect is the recommendations to be finalized later this spring.

They will be made available to the public, and we will respond immediately to the recommendations, of course, keeping in mind again that there will always be a balance between the economic development and the environmental management of our lands. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Highlands. Community Lottery Boards MS BLAKEMAN: Thanks very much, Mr. Speaker. Last fall in a panic state the government cut community lottery board allocations by 1 percent.

The timing and notification regarding these cuts resulted in hardship for the agencies that rely on these funds to do their good work. The government has now put the community lottery board allocation process on hold. My first question is to the Minister of Gaming. When is the minister going to be forthright with the lottery boards and their agencies and tell them how long they can expect to be kept on hold? THE SPEAKER: The hon. minister. MR. STEVENS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In this particular fiscal year, that is 2001-2002, some $53 million was allocated to commu- nity lottery boards. AN HON. MEMBER: How much?

MR. STEVENS: Actually, $53.3 million. As a result of the belt-tightening that was necessary this past fall, Alberta Gaming did its share, and there was a minor reduction in the amount of the allocation at that point in time by some 2 million or so dollars. The balance of the money has been allocated to commu- nity lottery boards, and the cheques are going out to the various recipients. THE SPEAKER: The hon. member. MS BLAKEMAN: Thank you. Can the minister confirm if the reductions were levied across the province without preferential treatment; in other words, did all boards get cut the same?

THE SPEAKER: The hon. minister. MR. STEVENS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The fact is that commu- nity lottery boards have different ways of dealing with the alloca- tions that are provided to them. There are some 88 boards. Some have one meeting and one allocation. Others have two meetings and two-stage allocations. Accordingly, when it was necessary to make the deduction this past fall, some accommodation had to be made at that point in time to reflect the fact that some of the boards had in fact expended all of the moneys that had been given to them.

We indicated at that point in time ve ry clearly to the boards what the process was, and all of them know exactly where they stand with respect to how they were treated, but it was necessary to take into account the different ways that each of those boards had set up their allocations in making those deductions. THE SPEAKER: The hon. member. MS BLAKEMAN: Thank you. Again to the Minister of Gaming: why are there indications being given to organizations that the community facility enhancement program has run out of money and that there’s no point in putting in an application? MR.

STEVENS: Well, the community facility enhancement program was started in the ’80s and, in fact, is in its 13th or 14th year and fourth iteration. Each year there is some $25 million that is allocated to that particular program. The fact is that as you get towards the end of a particular program, as we are at this point in time – that is, with March 31 being the end of this fiscal year and with March 31 also being the end of this fourth iteration of the program – you come to a point where there is very little money yet there is a significant demand.

Accordingly, what has been told to applicants is that we will be addressing the continuation of the CFEP program going forward into the new budget, and in the meantime we will continue to allocate what funds there are available based on appropriate applications. So that is the message, Mr. Speaker, that has been given to people who are interested in this program. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Highlands, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-West. Teachers’ Remuneration MR. MASON: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Contrary to the government’s claims the 4 and 2 percent line items in last year’s budget for t eachers’ salaries thwarted the collective bargaining process. It forced school boards to choose between a wage settle- ment for teachers well below those of comparable gr oups such as nurses, provincial employees, or even MLAs or to take resources away from students. The result now before us is a teachers’ strike of unprecedented size and bitterness. My question is to the Premier.

Why did the government arrogantly interfere with the lawful rights of teachers’ locals and school boards to freely engage in collective bargaining through its imposition of a line item for teachers’ salaries in the budget? MR. KLEIN: Mr. Speaker, if I may be permitted, I would like to begin the answer to the question with a question. Would the hon. member have been satisfied had we put absolutely nothing in, that they were guaranteed nothing, rather than 6 percent? Is that what he’s saying, that he would have preferred that we guaranteed nothing rather than 6 percent?

Now, I know I can’t ask him a question, but perhaps the media can ask him the question after the session. Mr. Speaker, we felt that we were doing something for the teachers by taking the unprecedented step of guaranteeing them at least 6 percent, 4 and 2, by making a guarantee, unprecedented, with the ability for the union to negotiate with the various school jurisdictions for more if indeed that’s where the jurisdictions decided they wanted to spend their dollars. MR. MASON: Mr. Speaker, will the Premier be straightforward with Albertans and acknowledge that there is a clear link between the

16 Alberta Hansard February 27, 2002 government’s unprecedented decision to impose wage controls on teachers thr ough the budget and the resulting unpr ecedented provincewide job action by teachers? MR. KLEIN: Mr. Speaker, had we made no comment in the budget and said that we will put zero in the budget for t eachers’ salaries, that would have been wage control, that would have sent a very serious message.

Putting a minimum of 6 percent in the budget guaranteed that amount at least, and as has been the case in various school jurisdictions throughout this province where there have been settlements, teachers were able to negotiate for more in some cases if not all cases. 2:40 MR. MASON: Mr. Speaker, is the Premier trying to suggest that since previous budgets, going back till the foundation of this province, did not have line items for teachers yet teachers had significant increases in their wages and living conditions, that was a less satisfactory approach than this wage control through the budget? MR. KLEIN: Mr.

Speaker, this is not wage control. This is guaran- teeing a minimum. You know, my math is not that poor, but a 6 percent increase is better than zero. Any of the university professors over there agree that 6 percent is better and greater than zero? THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Calgary-West, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Ellerslie. Osteoporosis Program MS KRYCZKA: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As chair of the Seniors Advisory Council for Alberta I have become very familiar with health issues facing older Albertans. A problem faced by countless seniors in our province is osteoporosis.

In fact, 1 in 4 Alberta women over the age of 50 and 1 in 8 men suffer from osteoporosis. A number of my constituents have suffered broken bones as a result of what should have been minor falls. My question is for the Minister of Health and Wellness. What steps is his department taking to reduce the number of seniors who suffer these unnecessary setbacks year after year and to reduce the related costs to the health system? MR. MAR: Mr. Speaker, it’s clear that the cost of our health system will increase as the average ag e of our population continues to increase over the next 10 to 20 years.

As an example, in the area of osteoporosis we spent $14.2 million in the last fiscal year just for diagnostic tests to determine osteoporosis. The Department of Health and Wellness will be working with the Osteoporosis Society to develop a public awareness campaign around the relationship between nutritional, lifestyle, and activity habits and the develop- ment of osteoporosis, and I’m pleased to advise members of this Assembly that the department will be providing $100,000 to the Osteoporosis Society to administer the campaign.

The focus of the campaign will be on women over the age of 35 who are approaching or who have entered the menopausal years, when decreases in estrogen put them at risk of losing one-third to one-half of their bone density. This group is open to changing health behaviours. I think that this is a very good example of wellness initiatives that the government of Alberta intends to promote. THE SPEAKER: The hon. member. MS KRYCZKA: Thank you. Mr. Speaker, my first supplemental is also to the Minister of Health and Wellness. Calgary and Edmonton have strong osteoporosis programs.

Will this campaign include any specific activities to address the needs of those seniors and others who are living outside the province’s major cities? MR. MAR: Mr. Speaker, I think that this is an important point to make, that we need to conduct an environmental scan that is a first step to a public awareness campaign, and the purpose of the scan is to identify the most effective ways of reaching groups within the province that could be better served by osteoporosis education.

Again, within the context of the Mazankowski report this approach to the promotion of wellness and giving Albertans access to credible, reliable information on how to look after themselves is critical. Certainly the issues of those who are living in rural parts of Alberta will be addressed. The scan also must consider the harder to reach populations within urban areas. Examples of that may be certain cultural groups, recent immigrants who perhaps do not have facility in the language. Lower income groups would be another good example, Mr. Speaker.

Based on the information that we gather through this environmental scan, we will develop a strategy to inform these groups about lifestyle, nutrition, and activity choices that will best protect them from osteoporosis. THE SPEAKER: The hon. member. MS KRYCZKA: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My second supplementary also to the Minister of Health and Wellness: does he have any further plans that would also contribute to the prevention of osteoporosis, say in the area of learning with young students in the school system, in the area of diet and nutrition? MRS. NELSON: Good question. MR. MAR: Well, Mr.

Speaker, the Minister of Finance, next to me, commented that that’s a good question, and I agree. Clearly, one of the recommendations in the Mazankowski report that we intend on proceeding forward with is the improvement of curriculum in our schools as it relates to health. I think that that would be a very, very important point. The setting of the right trends in young people is absolutely critical to establishing lifelong trends for activity, proper nutrition, and so on. So, Mr. Speaker, the short answer is yes.

It is our intention to be working with my colleague the minister from the Department of Learning to proceed on developing curriculum, and certainly education as it relates to osteoporosis within an overall context of health education curriculum would be important. head: Recognitions THE SPEAKER: Seven hon. members have advised the chair that they would like to participate today, so we will go in this order. First of all, the hon. Member for Lacombe-Stettler, followed by the hon. Member for Red Deer-North, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-Bow, then the hon.

Member for Edmonton-Glengarry, Edmonton-Castle Downs, and Vermilion-Lloydminster. Town of Lacombe MRS. GORDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Lacombe, a growing, vibrant community situated adjacent to highway 2 in central Alberta, has something to brag about. Harrowsmith Country Life magazine has chosen Lacombe as one of the ten prettiest towns in Canada. No other Alberta towns were selected. Harrowsmith Country Life editor, Tom Cruickshank, stated that articles such as the one

February 27, 2002 Alberta Hansard 17 Lacombe will be featured in in April’s publication have been a huge plus for past winners, attracting large numbers of interested tourists. Congratulations, Lacombe. I have always known that you were a special place. I am very pr oud to be a longtime resident and to represent your citizens’ interests at the Alberta Legislature. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre. Peter Mercer MS BLAKEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Today it’s my great pleasure to recognize and honour the work of Peter Mercer as he prepares for his March 1 retirement from the Downtown Business Association. I met Peter within a few weeks of first being elected. He was knocking on my door to let me know what I could do in partnership with the DBA. We have much to thank Peter for. He promoted and publicized the 1995 capital city downtown plan. This, in turn, brought us the demolition of the Rat Hole, the one-way to two-way changes for downtown streets, safety audits of downtown parkades, and the first two-hour parking meters.

Peter is also a huge promoter of the Fourth Street Promenade streetscaping and the installation of Roy Leadbeater’s Aurora’s Dance, also on 104th. His publicity made this a going concern. In fact, that is the comment I heard the most: Peter’s ability to get stories about revitalization into the news and that Peter is a great party animal. He brought us all the best parties downtown: festivi- ties around the Canadian Finals Rodeo, the longest line dance, and the chili cook-off, a great Santa Claus parade, and lots of downtown activities for Family Day. Thank you Peter, and best wishes for your new endeavor.

THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Red Deer-North. Red Deer’s Olympic Athletes MRS. JABLONSKI: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It gives me great pleasure to rise today in the Assembly to recognize the Olympic champions from Red Deer. All members of the Olympic team from Alberta and Canada have made us proud and grateful for their honest, drug-free efforts, their graciousness, and their classic Canadian dignity. I’m very proud to congratulate Jamie Sale from Red Deer and her partner, David Pelletier from Quebec, for their beautifully exciting and flawless pairs skating and their great Canadian attitudes.

Our congratulations to Diedra Dionne of Red Deer, who, through persistence, determination, and faith, flew through the air with grace and beauty to win a bronze medal in aerial free-style skiing and to Ryan Smith from Red Deer, a member of the Canadian men’s hockey team, who showed the true grit of Alberta hockey players, who never give up and always put their heart and soul into our great Canadian sport.

It is my pleasure to also congratulate our Olympic athletes from Red Deer, who competed with great talent and effort, our world cup champion speed skater, Jeremy Wotherspoon, and another great speed skater, Stephen Elm. In women’s luge racing we are very proud and pleased to claim Regan Lauscher as our very own. Congratulations to all these Red Deer athletes and to our entire Canadian Olympic team, their coaches, families, and sponsors. You have given a gift to all Canadians of an unforgettable 19th Winter Olympic Games of 2002 in Salt Lake City, Utah. THE SPEAKER: The hon.

Member for Edmonton-Glengarry. 2:50 Canadian Forces Battle Group MR. BONNER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Earlier this year members of the Canadian Forces Battle Group, which consists of two infantry companies of the 3rd Battalion of the PPCLI, 1 Reconnaissance Squadron from the Lord Strathcona’s Horse, and the logistics group from the No. 1 Service Battalion, all from Edmonton, were deployed to Afghanistan. They are part of Operation Apollo in direct support of the coalition against terrorism.

Our Canadian Forces have a long history of peacekeeping around the world, but they face real threats during this mission. They will conduct a variety of tasks where their safety will be threatened by land mines and resistance from the remaining Taliban and al-Qaeda fighters. To all our soldiers who serve in Afghanistan, you honour us as a nation. Know that our thoughts and prayers are with you and that we wish you every success in your mission and a speedy and safe return to your loved ones. Thank you. Walt Healy MS DeLONG: Mr.

Speaker, I rise today in the House to pay special recognition to an outstanding Calgarian who passed away in January. On January 12, Walt Healy, who was known around the world for his love of motorcycling, passed away. Walt was an honoured resident of the Calgary-Bow constituency and the owner of Walt Healy Motorcycles, which he owned from 1931 until the day he died. Walt also loved to act part-time, appearing in several movies, including One More Mountain, where I was honoured to work with him. Walt won several awards and honours but may be best known for his commitment to safety while riding.

His learn-to-ride program, implemented many years ago, has since become the Canada Safety Council motorcycle program and allows Canadians of all ages to share his passion for cycling and, at the same time, stay safe. Walt was known as an outspoken, no-nonsense man with a heart of gold who lived life to the fullest. To quote from Walt: “On a motorcycle you smell, you feel, and you understand what’s going on. It’s a different feeling. You’re a free individual, a free soul.” He was a true Albertan, a great friend to us all. We will miss him. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. THE SPEAKER: The hon.

Member for Edmonton-Castle Downs. Canada’s Armed Forces MR. LUKASZUK: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to join my colleague from Edmonton-Glengarry in acknowledging the brave Albertans who are currently maintaining the peace efforts in Afghanistan. On January 31, 2002, 750 men and women stationed at the CFB Edmonton Namao joined other members from Canada’s armed forces on a mission to Kandahar, Afghanistan. We have complete confidence in their skills. It is with pride that we support them during this peacekeeping effort.

The difficulties and dangers that they will face as they complete their tour of duty is a testament of courage and their devotion to Canada and her grateful citizens. We also acknowledge their selfless families and friends, who are asked once again to put their fears and worries aside and accept the frightening task that lies ahead of their spouses, siblings, children, and parents. It is with the utmost gratitude that we honour them as well. Canada is part of a coalition that will defend the fragile freedom in Afghanistan to ensure that this war-torn country, in despair for so long, has a chance to rebuild.

Indeed, Mr. Speaker, the people of

18 Alberta Hansard February 27, 2002 Afghanistan are depending on this coalition to provide them a chance of finally building a peaceful nation. To our military personnel, Godspeed. To the families and friends, we join you in prayers and hope for their safe and quick return home. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Vermilion-Lloydminster. The Scott Family from Vermilion MR. SNELGROVE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s truly an honour today to rise in the House and recognize the Scott family from Vermilion.

Now, all of us have heard of Becky Scott, who recently became Canada’s first ever medal winner in a cross-country skiing event. It was a bronze medal, but more importantly or maybe just as importantly, it was done, unlike some of her competitors, drug free. I think you would all agree with me that she should be awarded the gold medal. Mr. Speaker, Becky would be the first person to acknowledge that her parents were instrumental in her success. Walter and Jan Scott from Vermilion are truly gold medal parents.

Becky has stated that when you take on a goal and put your heart and your soul into doing everything it takes to accomplish that goal, that is excellence. Well, Becky Scott truly is excellence. On behalf of all her friends and supporters in and around the town of Vermilion: job well done. head: Notices of Motions THE SPEAKER: The hon. Leader of the Official Opposition. DR. NICOL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise now to give notice that preceding Orders of the Day, I will be rising on Standing Order 30. Thank you. head: Introduction of Bills THE SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Children’s Services.

Bill 2 Child and Family Services Authorities Amendment Act, 2002 MS EVANS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I request leave to introduce Bill 2, Child and Family Services Authorities Amendment Act, 2002. The consultation that preceded this was, in fact, a comprehensive review taking place in the fall of 2000. The intent of this bill will be to clarify the nomination process for boards to address governance roles of the boards and their accountability to the ministry. Mr.

Speaker, we have also had significant consultation with partnering departments of Justice, Learning, Health and Wellness, Community Development, International and Intergovernmental Relations. Thank you. [Motion carried; Bill 2 read a first time] THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Little Bow. Bill 3 Irrigation Districts Amendment Act, 2002 MR. McFARLAND: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I request leave to introduce a bill, being the Irrigation Districts Amendment Act, 2002. Mr.

Speaker, this will accommodate small-volume water users who wish to use water without the necessity of obtaining the water licence under the current act. [Motion carried; Bill 3 read a first time] THE SPEAKER: The hon. Government House Leader. MR. HANCOCK: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d move that Bill 3 be moved onto the Order Paper under Government Bills and Orders. [Motion carried] THE SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Health and Wellness. Bill 4 Public Health Amendment Act, 2002 MR. MAR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I beg leave to introduce a bill being Bill 4, the Public Health Amendment Act, 2002. [Motion carried; Bill 4 read a first time] THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Calder. Bill 5 Interjurisdictional Support Orders Act MR. RATHGEBER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I request leave to introduce a bill being Bill 5, the Interjurisdictional Support Orders Act. Mr. Speaker, if this act is adopted by this Assembly, it will replace the existing Reciprocal Enforcement of Maintenance Orders Act, eliminating the need for the prov isional orders and therefore two court applications in most support cases.

A claimant who com- mences a support application or a support variation application under provincial or territorial legislation in another Canadian jurisdiction would have the application forwarded here, where an Alberta respondent would then present his or her evidence at a single court hearing. Claimants in Alberta would similarly have their paper applications forwarded to the respondent’s province or territory for a single court hearing there. I encourage all hon. members to support Bill 5. [Motion carried; Bill 5 read a first time] 3:00 THE SPEAKER: The hon. Government House Leader. MR.

HANCOCK: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d move that Bill 5 be moved onto the Order Paper under Government Bills and Orders. [Motion carried] THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Leduc. Bill 7 Agriculture Financial Services Amendment Act, 2002 MR. KLAPSTEIN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I request leave to introduce Bill 7, the Agriculture Financial Services Amendment Act, 2002. The bill updates the current act to reflect the merger of the Agriculture Financial Services Corporation and the Alberta Opportu- nity Company. [Motion carried; Bill 7 read a first time]

February 27, 2002 Alberta Hansard 19 THE SPEAKER: The hon. Government House Leader. MR. HANCOCK: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d move that Bill 7 be moved onto the Order Paper under Government Bills and Orders. [Motion carried] THE SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Children’s Services. Bill 9 Child Welfare Amendment Act, 2002 MS EVANS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I request leave to introduce Bill 9, the Child Welfare Amendment Act, 2002.

This will amend current legislation to allow for interprovincial movement of children involved in child welfare, will streamline telephone applications, will in fact address amendments to enable a justice of the peace to handle tele phone applications for apprehen- sion orders, and will help us with the introduction of amendments to allow the Child Welfare Appeal Panel to be bound by the policies of the resources for children with disabilities program. Mr.

Speaker, these amendments will allow for smoother co-ordination of issues and efficiency in the Child Welfare Act. [Motion carried; Bill 9 read a first time] Bill 10 Public Works Amendment Act, 2002 MR. SNELGROVE: Mr. Speaker, I request leave to introduce a bill being Bill 10, the Public Works Amendment Act, 2002. [Motion carried; Bill 10 read a first time] THE SPEAKER: The hon. Government House Leader. MR. HANCOCK: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d move that Bill 10 be moved onto the Order Paper under Government Bills and Orders. [Motion carried] THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for West Yellowhead.

Bill 11 Energy Information Statutes Amendment Act, 2002 MR. STRANG: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I request leave to introduce Bill 11, the Energy Information Statutes Amendment Act, 2002. The following acts will be amended by this bill to retain and improve paramountcy of confidentia lity provisions for those acts over the provisions of the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act: the Mines and Minerals Act, the Natural Gas Marketing Act, the Electric Utilities Act, the Oil and Gas Conservation Act, the Oil Sands Conservation Act, and the Coal Conservation Act.

Thank you. [Motion carried; Bill 11 read a first time] THE SPEAKER: The hon. Government House Leader. MR. HANCOCK: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d move that Bill 11 be moved onto the Order Paper under Government Bills and Orders. [Motion carried] head: Tabling Returns and Reports MRS. McCLELLAN: Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Premier I’m pleased to file with the Assembly the appropriate number of letters of congratulations that the Premier has sent to Alberta-based Olympic medal winners. Many of those Olympians have been mentioned in statements here today.

I will not read the names on all of the letters, but I do believe that these letters capture the pride that all MLAs and all Albertans have in these tremendous athletes. Thank you. THE SPEAKER: Hon. Deputy Premier, did you have tablings on behalf of your other position as Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development? MRS. McCLELLAN: I do, sir. THE SPEAKER: Please proceed. MRS. McCLELLAN: Mr. Speaker, I’m pleased to table with the Assembly today copies of the report on university animal facilities for the year 2001 as required under

section 52(5) of the Universities Act. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Finance. MRS. NELSON: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. This morning I provided the government’s 2001-2002 quarterly budget report for the third quarter to all Members of the Legislative Assembly. I am now wanting to file and table in this House the quarterly budget report as amended – in other words, the consolidated fiscal plan – as required under

section 8 of the Government Accountability Act as well as the third quarter activity report for 2001-2002. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Health and Wellness. MR. MAR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have for tabling the requisite number of copies of a listing of the expenses and costs for the Premier’s Advisory Council on Health. I note that for its 17 months of activity the total cost came to $326,454.30. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Human Resources and Employment. MR. DUNFORD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I’m pleased to table with the Assembly two reports: the Appeals Commission for Alberta Workers’ Compensation 2000 annual report and the Certified General Accountants Association of Alberta 2001 annual report. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for St. Albert. MRS. O’NEILL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This afternoon at the request of Mr. Barrie Schulha of St. Albert I wish to table the appropriate number of copies of a letter that he sent to me requesting that they be tabled in the Legislative Assembly. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Leader of the Official Opposition. DR. NICOL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I stand now to table the appropriate number of copies of a letter that I’ve written to Mr. Michael Chambers, president of the Canadian Olympic Association, congratulating him on the great work that Canada’s team and Albertans did in the Olympics in Salt Lake City, expressing our

20 Alberta Hansard February 27, 2002 thanks for all the entertainment and enjoyment that they provided for us for the last couple of weeks. THE SPEAKER: Are there additional members? Hon. members, the chair has three tablings today. First of all, pursuant to the Legislative Assembly Act I table with the Assembly five copies of the following Members’ Services orders: service order 7/01, Constituency Services Ame ndment Order (No. 9), and 8/01, Constituency Services Amendment Order (No. 10).

I also table with the Assembly the report by the Ethics Commis- sioner into allegations involving the hon. former Member for Wainwright, Robert Butch Fischer, dated January 9, 2002. The report was distributed to members on January 9 of 2002. As well, pursuant to

section 32 of the Election Finances and Contributions Disclosure Act, Revised Statutes of Alberta 1980 ,

chapter E-3, I’m pleased to table with the Assembly the 24th annual report of the Chief Electoral Officer for the calendar year 2000 and the 2001 general election. head: Request for Emergency Debate THE SPEAKER: Now, on our routine, having no points of order, no questions of privilege, we come to recognition of the hon. Leader of the Official Opposition on a Standing Order 30 application. Education System DR. NICOL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise to propose the following motion to the Assembly:

Be it resolved that this Assembly adjourn the ordinary business of the Assembly to discuss a matter of urgent public importance; namely, the actions needed to re solve the problems currently faced by Alberta’s schools. It is critical that we have this debate now. The discussion, the give and take that goes on, and the exchange of ideas has to be conducted beyond the scope provided by question period.

It has to go beyond that scope where we can deal with it in the context of debate, because we’re having a situation arise right now where there’s potentially additional school jurisdictions that may enter into a strike position. 3:10 We have to have a clear definition from the government: what are the parameters, what are the expectations, and what are the future projections of where we expect to see our public school system moving? It’s not enough just to say that the solution has to be achieved today.

It has to be dealt with in the context of a long-run commitment to our education system, a long-run commitment to how we as Albertans want to see our education system supported, and those are the kinds of issues that we have to bring into this debate. We have to look at: what are the kinds of parameters that we as the decision-makers for this province want to put into the commitment on funding? In terms of class size what debate will go around creating class size parameters within the context of feedback from those school boards, from the teachers in terms of what is appropriate?

What additional resources are available to possibly support a t eacher in the classroom, whether those are computers, whether those are teacher aides, whether those are the kinds of access to textbooks that appears not to be there. We also have to look at the overall commitment that we have to education in the context of the resources that we provide. How much of our education system is going to have to be funded from parent fund-raising, from community fund-raising, from partnerships with the business community?

These are the kinds of things that we have to be able to discuss now in the open, in a public area like the Legislature so that we can effectively send signals to Albertans about what to expect we have as a commitment to the education system. Mr. Speaker, we also need to clarify for Albertans the kind of expenditures that we currently have in our education system, how it compares, how it’s keeping up to the changing number of students, to the changing costs of providing the learning environment. This has to be reflected in the concept that we have conflicting numbers out there.

You know, it’s easy to say that there’s been an increase of 41 percent, but we also have to look at it in the context of: how does that keep up with the number of students and the cost of providing it in terms of computers that are necessary, the increasing cost of textbooks, the increasing cost of providing library services? All of this has to be built into that debate, and we have to have the opportunity to address those issues here in this Legislature so that Albertans understand the parameters.

They then will better under- stand what they’re hearing when school boards or when t eachers’ local associations get involved in their negotiations. They’ll also understand better what comes out of this Legislature when we hear the Minister of Learning or the minister of human resources or the Premier make comments about the parameters, what’s available for discussion, what is on the table, what has been offered, what’s being withdrawn. These are the kind of parameters that we have to be able to provide Albertans with so that they understand fully the debate that’s going on. Mr.

Speaker, we also have to look at how we fund education in the future. We have to look at it so that the system will provide opportunities for all of our students. Do we have enough support for our special-needs students? How do we go about creating special- needs classifications? How do we go about dealing with population changes, community growth? How do we deal with making sure that adequate school facilities are available?

This is the kind of thing that has to be looked at in the context of where we want to go so that Albertans understand and can basically feel comfortable that they appreciate the arguments that are being put forward by both sides in this discussion right now, whether it be the school boards or whether it be the teachers’ local. These are the kinds of things we have to be able to look at. We also have to look in the context of: what is a government’s role in the event of the kind of teachers’ strike situation that we’ve seen in the last few weeks and potentially could see more of in the future.

We’ve seen the government in effect become involved when it shouldn’t have in the negotiations. They have set parameters on what are expectations from the messages that they’re sending out to the public. That, Mr. Speaker, needs to be clarified. Is this going to be the common practice of the government? Is this going to be something that all groups who deal with public dollars are going to have to expect in the context of how they negotiate for their contracts? Will there be public legislated guidelines put in place about these kinds of settlements?

The other aspect, then, is: how do we deal with the responsibility once those signals are sent? You know, we’ve heard now from the budget last year of a 4 and 2 offer to the teachers as a base, but what happens now if the local school boards decide they want to deal with a different kind of a settlement? Where can they get the resources? Are they free to deal with that? We’ve heard through public debate that the minister has essentially suggested very strongly – now, some people see it almost as a threat if the school boards use their reserves to provide for settlement in this c ontext.

What is the role of a reserve? What are the options for using that reserve? These are the kinds of things that we have to be able to talk about and to question the government on to clarify so that, in effect, we can have a true understanding by the people of this province.

February 27, 2002 Alberta Hansard 21 Mr. Speaker, that outlines very briefly why we see this being critical to the debate today, because it’s a matter of importance that the public sees a need for clear

definitions so that they can interpret the actions that are going on on both sides and they can basically better understand the solution as well when we see either a negoti- ated solution or after the 15th of March mediated solutions that are being put in place for schools. We also have to be able to convince them or convey to them that as a province we will respect that, that we will provide the resources to the school boards so that they can deal with the settlement, whatever it is, especially if it’s a mediated solution where the school board, then, is left with no choice but to make some drastic deci- sions.

What are the implications of that? What are the support systems in place if they end up having to make, in effect, classroom cut decisions? So that, Mr. Speaker, is why we think it’s very critical that this debate be conducted today, that this debate be conducted this afternoon, and that this debate be conducted in this Legislature. Thank you. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Learning on the Standing Order 30 application. DR. OBERG: Absolutely, Mr. Speaker. I would urge that this application is not in order, and I will do it for several reasons.

First of all, the application, if I may quote, addresses “the actions needed to resolve the problems currently faced by Alberta’s sc hools.” As Minister of Learning it would be extremely naive of me to stand up here and say that there are absolutely no problems in any school at any one time. I think, equally, it would be naive of me to say that there aren’t potential problems, that the teachers’ strike has not been a problem, and I will address that a little later. I think that any school jurisdiction, any jurisdiction in Canada, should be measured on its results.

It should be measured on the outcomes that the students coming out of the system are showing. In Alberta we have unprecedented results. Prior to this motion in question period I talked about the results from the PISA exams, where we scored essentially the top marks in the world. I will say that it’s for three reasons. First of all, it’s our students. I think we have excellent students in this province. I think our students are well motivated and are doing a great job. Secondly, I’ll say teachers.

I think that our teachers are doing an absolutely excellent job in this province and again are equally well motivated and doing a great job. And, Mr. Speaker, the third thing that I will say – and I will congratulate my department – is the curriculum. The work that my department does in curriculum with field testing, with diploma exams – all of these types of things are second to none in this world, and again I will repeat for the third or fourth time today that we finished number one in the world.

Often – and I believe too often – a jurisdiction is graded, so to speak, on the amount of dollars that they put in, and although I don’t agree with that, I will state some facts. The fact is quite simply – and I’ll use Stats Canada – that in the year 2000-01 we were ranked fifth in the country. We believe that in our ranking, using the same procedures, we are fifth again this year. However, Mr. Speaker, it is an apples and oranges argument, because, for example, in Manitoba they have included capital expenditures on a onetime basis within their budget.

So if we were to include our capital expendi- tures of $613 million for schools this year, we would be sitting approximately third in Canada. By no means an emergency. 3:20 Mr. Speaker, the other point that I wanted to make quite simply – and the hon. Leader of the O pposition made this point as well – is that there has been a 41 percent increase in the dollars that have been allocated to schools since 1995-96.

In the two budgets that I have brought down, 9.8 percent in the first budget and an 8.4 percent increase in the second budget – last year alone that amounted to an extra $245 million that has gone into the school system. Special needs were raised by the hon. Leader of the Opposition. We have more than doubled special-needs funding from ’95-96 to 2001-2002, to the tune of around $327 million. Another very important point – and I want to reiterate this – is that the surpluses that are existing within the school system today amount to around $180 million, according to their statements. Mr.

Speaker, these have been arrived at by good judgments by the school boards. I don’t want to belittle that in any way, but the point I want to make here is that that money is available to be used within the school system but more importantly that number has increased. That number has not decreased. Last year it was around $160 million. It has actually increased the amount of surpluses that are available to the schools. So I believe that it’s something extremely important. Another point that I wanted to make is the Alberta initiative for school improvement.

This is something that is unprecedented anywhere else in the world; $68 million per year is put in for 734 projects on how to improve schools. No other jurisdiction in the world is doing this. We are by far – by far – ahead of any other jurisdiction in the world. Mr. Speaker, I will say, though, that there was a problem facing the system, a very major problem, and that was when the teachers were not in the classroom, when our students were not learning, when our students were not having their right to education being upheld.

This Minister of Human Resources and Employment made the correct step and put those students back into the classroom, back into the learning environment. I will also argue that this is a case of sub judice – and this case will be heard by the Provincial Court on Friday of this week – that the whole issue about the strike is a sub judice case and should not be discussed in this Legislature. So I guess, Mr. Speaker, what I would state quite simply to close is that the main problem that has been faced by the school system in Alberta has been the teachers out on strike.

It has been the teachers not in the classroom teaching students, students not learning. That has been resolved, plus on Friday of this week there will be a court case, a very important court case, where the Alberta Teachers’ Association has challenged the right of students to learn. We feel that that is extremely important, and we’ll be there. So, Mr. Speaker, I feel that the Legislative Assembly and yourself in particular should not rule, s hould not vote in favour of the Standing Order 30 and that this is not an emergency of the propor- tions needed to adjourn the debate of today. Thank you.

THE SPEAKER: Well, hon. members, I’ve now listened to two petitions with respect to this. I would ask hon. members to get the Standing Orders out, please, because so far I’ve heard no arguments from anybody with respect to urgency. Maybe I’ll get one. I’m going to allow two more, the hon. Member for Edmonton-Highlands and the hon. Government House Leader, and then I’m going to make a decision with respect to this Standing Order 30 application. Hon. Member for Edmonton-Highlands, proceed. MR. MASON: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I certainly take your point that the test of whether or not this debate ought to be allowed is whether it is, in fact, a matter of urgent public impor- tance. I would argue that it is both urgent and a matter of very serious public importance.

22 Alberta Hansard February 27, 2002 The government has taken action, Mr. Speaker, to order the teachers back to work, and that is currently before the courts and will be resolved, we hope, by the end of this week. So, in fact, that particular decision is going to have a very great effect, particularly if the court rules against the government, in which case immediate action of some sort will be taken by the government. It’s very important that this Legislature have a debate before that happens. Secondly, Mr.

Speaker, there are a great deal of school jurisdic- tions that still may be in a position to strike, and that may in fact happen very soon. These are not covered under this application, so that is another matter of very urgent debate. I think that it’s important to recognize that even if the government is successful, based on what we have understood in the public debate around this issue, there may be long-term and immediate consequences in the schools even if the teachers are forced against their will to go back into the classrooms.

There may be, in fact, very serious impacts that will make themselves felt very, very quickly. I would indicate that there have been 350,000 students in 22 school districts out of sc hool, and the chances of them not being affected simply because the minister orders the teachers back to work is, you know, remote, that there will be no ongoing impact that we will be seeing. The government seems to feel that it can snap its fingers under its very broad legislative mandate and the problem goes away. Mr. Speaker, the problem has not gone away.

It’s a serious problem affecting almost every student in this province, and this Legislature has a duty to deal with it. I’ve seen time and time again the burning issues facing Albertans. The burning political issues are not debated in this Legislature in a timely fashion because the government doesn’t want it. Well, Mr. Speaker, what’s the use of this place if it’s going to be dealt with in that fashion by the government? The important question we have is: what is going to happen to the students in Alberta schools?

Quite frankly, the fact that the government would say that this is not a matter of urgent debate beggars belief. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Government House Leader on the Standing Order 30 application. MR. HANCOCK: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I will be succinct. There are some very clear points that need to be made. Standing Order 30 provides for suspending the normal business of the House for a matter of “urgent public importance.” Well, there’s no question that education, public education, is certainly an issue of public importance.

In fact, it was highlighted yesterday in the throne speech, which we will get to debate later on this afternoon if we’re allowed to continue with Orders of the Day. I would think it would be entirely appropriate for members, in debating the throne speech, to deal with the issues that were raised in the throne speech, and there are matters in the throne speech dealing with education, so it’s not urgent to move off the normal Orders of the Day, Mr. Speaker.

In fact, the normal Orders of the Day allow for debate on those public issues of importance in Learning as well as those public issues of importance in health care and other areas. Also, we heard the Premier today indicate that the budget would be available on the 19th of next month. Some of the issues that were raised – and I agree with you, Mr. Speaker, that none of them previously raised any issues of urgency – related to spending in education.

Well, there’s no better place to deal with the spending issues and the amount of resourcing and the way that resourcing is done and, in fact, the business plan of Learning except in Committee of Supply and in the debate under the appropriations bills which will be before the House. There were questions about government getting involved when it shouldn’t have, and that comes to my final point. The urgency that was apparent last week was relative to our students being out of school and needing to get those students back into school before undue hardship was caused. That was dealt with by the government.

There was an action brought before the court. That action is before the court as we speak. The decision is to be made on Friday. It’s premature for this House to get into that debate while that matter is before the court, and, Mr. Speaker, that really is the only issue where urgency was in question at all. The rest of the issues relating to public education are very important issues and very important issues for this House to debate, and we should get on with that debate under the debate on the Speech from the Throne. We should get on with that debate under Committee of Supply when the budget comes down.

We should get on with that debate during the interim supply, which obviously will be necessary because the budget isn’t coming down until the 19th of this month. So there will be plenty of opportunities in this House to deal with the issues of public importance, including the very important issue of public education. But it’s not an issue that meets the test, Mr. Speaker, under Standing Order 30 to abrogate Orders of the Day.

In fact, we should get on with Orders of the Day and reply to the Speech from the Throne and address the very urgent issues of public importance that were addressed by Her Honour yesterday. 3:30 THE SPEAKER: Hon. members, the chair has listened carefully to the arguments with respect to the issue of emergency debate and this application to adjourn the ordinary business of the House as brought forward by the Hon. Leader of the Official Opposition.

First of all, the chair received notice that this application would be made at least two hours prior to this afternoon’s sitting in the Assembly, so the requirements, at least the filing requirements, of Standing Order 30(1) have been met. At this stage the role of the chair is to determine whether or not the request for leave is in order, and that’s what this discussion has been about: whether or not the request – the request – for leave is in order, not if the subject is in order.

The request for leave would be that under the Standing Orders the person who sponsors the request would “briefly state the arguments in favour of the request for leave” – I might point out that the brief request for leave was nine minutes in length – “and the Speaker may allow such debate as he considers relevant to the question of urgency of debate and then shall rule on whether or not the request for leave is in order.” It has to do with “considers relevant to the question of urgency of debate,” not at all with the subject matter before us.

So having listened attentively and having seen the words that were presented and recognizing that the sponsor of the motion went from 3:09 to 3:18, which was nine minutes – oh, by the way, to speculate for just 30 or 40 seconds or a minute ahead in the future, should the chair rule that this in order, the amount of time eligible, then, for discussion would be 10 minutes. The chair has great difficulty in determining any arguments that were put forward for urgency; that is, what we would take away from the general Routine for today, which has been posted.

The Routine for today would see debate on Her Honour’s speech, would allocate and afford members 20 minutes’ participation for the mover and the seconder, would allow the Leader of the Official Opposition 90 minutes to participate if he chooses to participate, would allow other members 15 minutes to participate, and would allow for a five- minute exchange after that. That would provide considerably more time allocation, in fact, for debate on this subject than there would be if there would be a successful Standing Order 30 application.

February 27, 2002 Alberta Hansard 23 The assessment is this: in the chair’s view the criteria for the matter constituting a general emergency as required under subsec- tion (7)(

a) are not met on this application. While the education system is a very important issue for this Assembly, within the technical meaning of Standing Order 30 it would be very subjective to determine that a genuine emergency exists at the present time. Moreover, the wording of the motion is such that it is very general, as it refers to “the problems currently faced by Alberta’s schools,” rather than to a particular emergency that would require the immediate attention of the Assembly. Of course, this could change if events unfold differently in the next few days.

As the chair indicated in granting the request by the then Leader of the Official Opposition on May 24, 2000, things can change in a matter of a day to make something a genuine emergency that was not one the day before. The chair again would also note that there will be an opportunity for members to discuss the state of education and other subjects during the debate on the address in reply, which is scheduled to proceed this afternoon.

The chair again would note that the Leader of the Official Opposition is afforded up to 90 minutes under the rules of this Assembly to speak on the address in reply to the Speech from the Throne, which is more than the 10 minutes he would have been allowed under Standing Order 30 debate.

Accordingly, the chair will not put the question, and the request will not proceed. head: Statement by the Speaker Standing Orders Amendments THE SPEAKER: Now, hon. members, before we pro ceed with calling Orders of the Day, I indicated earlier that I wanted to make some additional comments with respect to the administration of the rules as we go forward now. Before we proceed to the business under Orders of the Day, the chair wants to remind members of some of the changes to the Standing Orders adopted last November that will affect the operation of the Assembly.

As a result of those amendments, this will be the first time since September 1993 that a Wednesday afternoon is not devoted to private members’ business. Monday afternoons will now be spent addressing Written Questions, Motions for Returns, and private members’ public bills. Commencing Monday evening at 8 p.m., one hour will be devoted to Motions Other than Government Motions. In terms of planning speeches, members should refer to Standing Order 29, concerning speaking times in the Assembly.

The mover of a government bill or motion will have 20 minutes’ speaking time but will be limited to 15 minutes in closing debate. The member who speaks immediately following the mover will also have 20 minutes. All other participants will be limited to 15 minutes’ speaking time. The Premier, the Leader of the Official Opposition, and the mover on the occasion of the Budget Address will still have 90 minutes. The five-minute reduction in members’ speaking time is replaced by a question and comment period, which is a new feature of the Legislative Assembly of Alberta.

This period will be available at second and third reading following every member’s sp eech except for those of the mover in opening and closing debate and the member who speaks immediately following the mover. This question and comment period will be an opportunity to ask questions of the member who has just spoken or make a statement about that speech. Participation in the question and comment session must be relevant to the preceding member’s speech and will be governed by the normal rules of the Assembly concerning the content of speeches as, for example, found in Standing Order 23.

The Canadian House of Commons has a 10-minute question and comment period where this rule of relevance applies. Members may wish to review

chapter 13 of the House of Commons Procedure and Practice, edited by Marleau and Montpetit, particularly pages 530 to 531. The difficulty with the question and comment session comes in determining how the five-minute period will be apportioned. Of course, for every member who wishes to ask questions to or comment on a member’s speech, there must be an opportunity for the member to respond. What if three members want to participate? When combined with the three responses allowed, the member would see five minutes divided by six.

The chair is always a timekeeper of sorts, but unless the Assembly decides to get a time clock in the Chamber like the one found at sporting events, it would be difficult for the chair to calculate the apportionment of time for members. Furthermore, the chair would be so intent in making sure that he or she had caught all members who wished to participate and had calculated the time correctly that the chair would not be able to focus on the member’s speech. Therefore, the chair will allot 30 seconds to each member who wishes to participate in the question and comment session.

The member whose speech has generated the questions or comments will have 30 seconds to respond. As many members as possible can participate for up to 30 seconds in the five-minute period. Unless participating members use considerably less than 30 seconds, it will mean that five members may participate in addition to the original speaker. If there are not enough members who wish to participate, then a member can be recognized more than once. The new rules concerning speaking times in the question and comment session will apply to the debate on the address in reply, so they will go in effect this afternoon.

This question and comment period is not available for private members’ business. The time limit on speaking for members’ and private members’ matters is now 10 minutes except for the Premier and the Leader of the Official Opposition, with 20 minutes each. The chair will review these matters on Monday, the first day of private members’ business under the amended Standing Orders. The chair also would like to take this opportunity to note a few other matters not related to the Standing Orders amendments. The first is that the new committee rooms are now operational.

They are located on the fourth floor of the Legislature Annex, and of course they form part of the precincts of the Assembly. For those members that have not had a meeting there yet, I would encourage you to go and look at these exceptional facilities. On another matter, members are aware that the Revised Statutes of Alberta 2000 are now in effect. I want to let members know that when the Legislative Assembly Office received notice of the cost of purchasing the Revised Statutes, the chair wrote the hon.

Minister of Justice and Attorney General to say, basically, that as the Assembly is the body that makes the laws for the province of Alberta, should- n’t the members be able to find out what the law is without having to pay for it? 3:40 The Minister of Justice wholeheartedly agreed and, on behalf of the government of the province of Alberta, donated three sets of the Revised Statutes of Alberta 2000 for use by members and table officers in the Chamber.

On behalf of the Assembly the chair would like to take this opportunity to thank the minister and also remind him that in previous days and on previous occasions all Members of the Legislative Assembly, the lawmakers of the province of Alberta, were provided with the complete Revised Statutes of the province of Alberta from the overall Minister of Justice in a gratuitous fashion. Thank you very much.

24 Alberta Hansard February 27, 2002 head: Orders of the Day head: Consideration of Her Honour the Lieutenant Governor’s Speech Mr. Horner moved that an humble address be presented to Her Honour the Honourable the Lieutenant Governor as follows. To Her Honour the Honourable Lois E. Hole, CM, Lieutenant Governor of the province of Alberta: We, Her Majesty’s most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Legislative Assembly, now assembled, beg leave to thank you, Your Honour, for the gracious speech Your Honour has been pleased to address to us at the opening of the present session. THE SPEAKER: The hon.

Member for Spruce Grove-Sturgeon-St. Albert. MR. HORNER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is an honour that I have been given leave to move acceptance of the Speech from the Throne. The speech presented by Her H onour the H onourable Lieutenant Governor, Lois Hole, opened the Second Session of the 25th Legislature, and it is my pleasure to address the Assembly on behalf of my constituents from Spruce Grove-Sturgeon-St. Albert. I would like to take this moment to send regrets to Her Honour and the province in respect to the passing of Princess Margaret and our former Lieutenant Governor, the Hon. H.A. “Bud” Olson.

I would also like to join Her Honour in expressing the pride and the great support for our soldiers who are serving in Afghanistan. I would like to thank these Albertans for the great job they are doing in protecting our nation and the principles and values we are so fortunate to be governed by. We all join in the prayers of their families and friends that they will be kept safe while they’re there on duty and will return with speed once they’ve completed their mission. Albertans are proud of what they are doing and the sacrifices that they are making to touch the lives of others.

Her Honour’s sp eech touched on many important issues our government is facing in the upcoming year. Because the issues of health care and education are in the forefront of most of our minds, I am pleased that a great portion of Her Honour’s Sp eech from the Throne discussed what goals lay ahead for our government. If we are to continue developing our Alberta advantage in the future, we must work together as a unified province to create the new paths that will take us where we need to be.

Last year at about this time, as I gave my maiden speech in this House, I said that I am here to represent the concerns of my constituents and speak within our government on their behalf. As a government we have promised to listen to Albertans. My constituents have made their wishes concerning health care known. They would like to see this govern- ment committed to a sustainable publicly funded system, a system they can trust to sustain their needs and the needs of their children into the future.

As a province we’re once again in the spotlight of our nation to see how we will define the health care system that w ill sustain our growing population, allow for comprehensive and accessible services, and, above all, keep Albertans healthy. After a decade of public consultation and study on the challenges we are facing to preserve affordable public health care, a report was presented to this government by the Advisory Council on Health. This report will inevitably provide the direction to many of the solutions for the problems we are facing with our health care system.

I know that the commitment of this government is to work together to find the answers wh ich best suit all of our needs. However, I firmly believe that in order to do this, we must continue to work as a team. In order to provide us with sustainable health care that works for all Albertans, we need to work with the regional health authorities, health professionals, and Albertans to ensure that we maintain the right direction. Last year the throne speech stated that the government’s priorities for health care would focus on access to health services, illness prevention, and effective regional governance.

The council’s report has focused reform on how this province spends our health care dollars. The promise of access, illness prevention, and effective regional governance are some of the concerns that Albertans have, and I strongly believe that we need to keep these in mind as we work through this process. Mr. Speaker, to be effective, a government cannot support the status quo in a time when change is necessary. We cannot afford to build pillars to simply prop up long-standing and failing systems in this province.

In order to move ahead and build effective systems that truly help people, not just catch them as they fall, we’re going to have to work together to develop a better system. In health care all eyes are upon us to see what directions we now choose. All eyes seem to be turning to our province for other reasons, as well, one of these being the ability of our students to excel in their studies and the commitments we have made as a province to ensure that every student receives the education they need to get ahead and enjoy a prosperous life and healthy lifestyle. Mr.

Speaker, as you know, I grew up as the youngest in a family of five boys, and many will attest to the special relationship which exists between the oldest and the youngest in a large family. My oldest brother has been there for comfort in bad times, and we’ve shared a great deal of mirth in the good times. His sage advice to me when I got married at a very early age, and even when I decided to enter the service of Albertans, has stayed with me. My oldest brother, Mr. Speaker, has spent his career to date in a profession which I and I know all of my colleagues respect a great deal.

It’s a profession where people care, and they work very hard to achieve the results they do. I’m very proud of my brother; he is a teacher. We may not always agree on some of the issues or on management style, but we certainly respect each other’s contribu- tions and careers. Mr. Speaker, much has been said in the media and around the province in the coffee shops and the constituency offices about education recently. I would like to express a key element of what my constituents have told me. They tell me that we need to review our policies as they relate to special-needs education and integration.

Are we doing the right thing with the resources that we have? Have we swung the pendulum too far? Is there a better way? We need to answer these questions, and we need to involve the students, the parents, the teachers, the school boards, and the government. Perhaps, Mr. Speaker, we may well find the answers to some of the concerns which have been expressed during this labour dispute, but through all of this we must ensure that management of the system stays where it is supposed to be. That means there probably should be some changes made.

I’m not going to detail to this House what has been suggested to me in my constituency office, but on all sides perhaps change is due. Education is a top priority of this government. School boards want to put funds where they deem they are necessary, and maybe we should look at ways that sc hool boards could raise additional revenue. Mr. Speaker, the throne speech pointed out that this government will continue to stay ahead of inflation in enrollment and funding and that this government will ensure that resources are there for our students.

As a province we have the ability to set new standards for education across Canada. Alberta students scored significantly higher than the national average in math, science, and reading. We

February 27, 2002 Alberta Hansard 25 scored top marks internationally in reading and placed third in math and science. Scoring so high on international standardized tests given to 31 other countries shows a great deal about the quality of education and the dedication of the teachers in our province. It also shows, as has been noted today, the dedication of our students and the commitment that they have made to focus on their futures. As a province it’s my belief that we must remain committed to our students. An exciting advantage for Alberta students is the projected completion of Supernet by 2004.

By this time every library, school, hospital, and provincial government office will have access to high- speed broadband network, closing the digital divide that is prevalent between rural and urban areas of Canada. With the development of Supernet, Alberta will be the most wired jurisdiction in the world. This will allow endless possibilities for our students and create opportunities for greater technological and communication services to be provided to rural commun ities by building such a network. Mr. Speaker, I believe this is akin to when telephones came to our province.

The dramatic effect that this will have on bringing Albertans together is very exciting. Internet services and advanced communication technology have changed our lives, and Alberta will be in the forefront of providing e-services, e-health, e-education, and e-commerce to help bring even the most remote parts of our province into the gateway of trade and services without ever leaving their communities.

We have taken the first step in our country to fund a provincial Internet initiative, and the whole province is excited about the opportunities it will bring and how it will help us rise to the top of the knowledge-based economy. The innovative ideas put into motion in Alberta, like the Supernet, have not only turned attention to our province but have successfully drawn investment and spurred great economic development. The advantages we have developed as a province have created an amazing pull for all kinds of investments.

Our government has been actively seeking international investment and stirring up quite a response from countries like Germany and the United States. Overall investment in Alberta has increased 85 percent since 1996. We have created such an amazing atmosphere for business invest- ment through the Alberta advantage, including our access to the NAFTA

Document details

Collection	Alberta — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	20020227
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	L25 S2 20020227 1330 01 han.pdf
Language	en
Format	json
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	35a1c2e006381c377d78bffe6bad24f6459b2223

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (json).