April 13, 2005 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLV

No. 10

The House met at 2:00 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: This afternoon we have members' statements as follows: the

hon. the Member for the District of Bellevue; the hon. the Member for the

District of Windsor-Springdale; the hon. the Member for the District of Mount

Pearl, and the Minister of Justice and Attorney General asks leave if he could

make a member's statement. I believe there is agreement on that.

The hon. the Member for the District of Bellevue.

MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to congratulate four constituents

of mine on their recent participation in the Miss Teen Newfoundland and Labrador

Pageant.

Mr. Speaker, sisters, Nikita and Katie Hickey of Grand Le Pierre, Vanessa

Dicks of Fair Haven and Shealie Keating of Mount Arlington Heights were four of

the twenty-three young women who participated in the four day event held in St.

John's in February of this year. Mr. Speaker, all of these young women did an

excellent job in representing their communities and should be very proud of

their accomplishments.

Mr. Speaker, I would also like to make special mention of the Hickey sisters

from Grand Le Pierre as Katie Hickey won the title of Miss Teen Fitness and

Nikita Hickey won the title of Miss Teen Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this hon. House to join me in

congratulating Katie, Nikita, Vanessa and Shealie and all their pageant

participants in the 2005 Miss Teen Newfoundland and Labrador Pageant.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Windsor-Springdale.

MR. HUNTER: Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to rise in the House

today to recognize the accomplishments of Jonathan Howse of Springdale. Jonathan

has competed at the Corner Brook triathlon at the age of sixteen and seventeen

in 2002 and 2003. For the past six years he has raced mountain and road bikes at

the provincial level, at the Atlantic Region level and during the summer he has

raced Mountain Bike Nationals at Mount Saint Anne, Quebec. The Caledon Triathlon

in Ontario was next.

His greatest accomplishment thus far would be the Royal Victorian Marathon,

while running amongst 3,000 runners, at the age of seventeen he won his marathon

event for his age group sixteen to nineteen years. His time on this event was

three hours and nine minutes which qualified him for the Boston Marathon, but

was not old enough to qualify. However, on Monday, April 18, Jonathan Howse will

be competing in the one hundred and ninth Boston Marathon.

I would like all hon. members of this House of Assembly to join me today in

congratulating Jonathan Howse on a job well done and wish him the best on the

upcoming marathon.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Mount Pearl.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DENINE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I stand here today to congratulate the participants and winners of the Pee

Wee AAA Aliant Atlantic Hockey Tournament that was held in Mount Pearl this past

weekend.

Teams participating were Team Newfoundland, the host team Mount Pearl, Team

Nova Scotia, Team P.E.I. and Team New Brunswick.

Mr. Speaker, at the end of the tournament the standings were, the gold medal

went to Team New Brunswick, the silver to Team Nova Scotia and the bronze to

Team P.E.I.

I must also commend how smoothly the tournament ran. Mr. Speaker, the

volunteers did an excellent job. There were no problems encountered, as they had

all the bases covered. I have participated in a number of tournaments in the

past, but I have to say this was done very, very well. My hat goes off to the

tournament organizers, the Mount Pearl Minor Hockey Association, and the

volunteers.

Mr. Speaker, tournaments like this enable children to create friendships that

will last a lifetime. The reaction from the parents who attended this tournament

was very positive. The hospitality that Mount Pearl extended was phenomenal. All

visitors thoroughly enjoyed their visit to Newfoundland and Labrador and they

said, without any hesitation, they are looking forward to their next visit to

our Province.

I ask this House to join with me in congratulating all the participants and

the volunteers for a job well done.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to seek leave of the House to congratulate four

incredible curlers on their most recent accomplishments. I understand from the

hon. Government House Leader that leave has been granted, for which I thank him.

Last winter, after winning their third consecutive Provincial Men's Senior

Curling Championship, the team from Corner Brook, consisting of skip Bas Buckle,

third Bob Freeman, second Gerry Young, and lead Harvey Holloway, headed off to

British Columbia to compete in the Canadian National Senior Curling

Championships. The team completed the tournament with an impressive 8 to 3

record and won the Canadian Senior Curling Championship title. This was the

first time a rink from Newfoundland and Labrador ever accomplished this

tremendous accomplishment.

Winning the title gave the team the right to go to the World Senior Curling

Championships in Sweden, and Bass, Bob, Gerry and Harvey headed off, where they

completed the tournament with a perfect 9 to 0 record and became the first

Newfoundland team ever to win the World Senior Championships. This was truly a

remarkable achievement.

Due to a scheduling conflict this year they were unable to take

part in the

defense of their Canadian Championship, but instead went right to Scotland for

the World Championships, and there, after a very tough tournament, and after a

very competitive round robin, and some nail bitting and a tie breaker, the

Buckle rink were off to the playoff round where they defeated the United States

by a score of 5 to 4; two consecutive World Championships. Some people might

have considered their first World Championship lucky or flukey, but this second

championship title proves that this team is undeniably the best Senior Men's

Curling Team in the world.

Mr. Speaker, to my knowledge, this is the first time in the history of our

Province that a local individual, group or team has ever won two consecutive

world sporting championships. This fabulous foursome have proven once again that

the people of this Province are capable of competing on a world level and of

being successful. Their accomplishments have instilled a sense of pride in the

residents of our Province, and in the City of Corner Brook in particular. They

have become a model for the young curlers in our Province, and have proven that

with hard work and dedication we are able to accomplish anything we set our

minds to.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of the House to join me in extending

congratulations and thanks to Bas, Bob, Gerry and Harvey for their tremendous

accomplishments and the wonderful job that they have done in representing our

Province and our country.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am happy to rise today to announce that my department is helping schools to

take out their e-waste. Electronic waste is not something many of us would think

about. In fact, Mr. Speaker, some may question, what is electronic waste? Is it

a deleted file, a new computer game, or an unusable hard drive?

Electronic waste, or e-waste, is old computers, monitors, or other related

equipment that have reached the end of their useful life cycle. Each year,

thousands of pounds of electronic waste ends up in landfills throughout

Newfoundland and Labrador. While many computers and computer parts can be

recycled or refurbished, many simply end up in our provincial dumps.

Today, Mr. Speaker, we are pleased to announce that we have contributed

$60,000 to Computers for Schools for a pilot project that would see obsolete

technology professionally processed by Noranda, a world leader in electronic

hardware recycling.

I am sure all hon. members are aware of the great work done by Computers for

Schools in this Province, and throughout the country. Since 1993, this program

has delivered approximately 12,000 computers to schools and libraries in

Newfoundland and Labrador. The volunteers of CFS collect, repair and deliver

surplus computers donated by government, private corporations and individuals.

Now, Mr. Speaker, Computers for Schools want to expand their mandate by

assisting in the removal of old computers from our schools and libraries. The

benefits of this are twofold, Mr. Speaker: the problem of improper or insecure

storage of these technologies is addressed, making our schools and libraries

safer; and, up to 120,000 pounds of e-waste will be diverted from our landfills.

We are delighted to partner with Computers for Schools for this innovative

pilot project. I commend the organization for once again setting a new standard

in computer recycling in our Province. Today I encourage, and indeed I

challenge, other organizations to support Computers for Schools in their efforts

in this area, and help keep our schools and libraries safe for our students.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I guess that is what our truckers are going to hauling this summer, instead

of fish.

Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister for his statement today but it raises more

questions than it gives answers. It is my understanding that we are going to pay

$60,000 to have old computers taken out of classrooms and sent to a company in

Ontario. I ask the minister: How many computers are we going to get in return

for this?

I also ask the minister: What about the Telephone Pioneers? I do not know if

he is familiar with that group. This is a group of retired Aliant workers who

refurbish computers in this Province. It is my understanding that computers from

elsewhere in the country are actually being shipped here to be refurbished, so I

wonder if you have looked at that option.

I would also like to say to the minister, it is nice to see him taking the

old computers out of the classrooms, but I ask the minister: How much money has

he put into putting new computers back in this year?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This is a very curious statement, that this government is going to spend

$60,000 on a program to ship computers to Noranda in Ontario when, in fact,

Hewlett-Packard, another computer company, has a program that provides

transportation and is involved in this program, brings it all to Noranda and

operates it. So, I do not know why we have to pay for this.

I would think, Mr. Speaker, that this minister would be concentrating more on

trying to fix the schools, fix the roofs in the schools, where flooding has

occurred in the last few days, where parents and students and teachers have to

work in unsafe conditions, and do something about that, rather than deal with a

program that, in fact, could be paid for, could be looked after, by a private

enterprise who are already doing this program elsewhere in the country.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers.

Oral Questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, just like a year ago at this time, the Premier is once again

showing his lack of respect for union members in this Province. He is trying to

dismiss the decisions of the union leadership. He shows no respect for the

democratic processes followed within the union, and he is once again trying to

bypass the internal processes of union members in this Province.

I ask the Premier: Why does he feel it necessary to try and create divisions

inside a union instead of addressing the real issue, which is his own

unilaterally imposed production quota system?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

There is no attempt by myself or this government to divide the union. There

is solidarity in the union. I think everybody knows that. That is not an issue.

If, in fact - and my comment was I do not know if there is 100 per cent there.

If you are making reference to the fact that we came out yesterday and indicated

that we wanted to help plant workers, well I think it is important that this

government help the plant workers because they will be the ones that are most

seriously affected.

In particular, I think it is worth pointing out that we are responding to a

news release from Mr. Joyce who said that government must help plant workers.

So, what do you want? Do you want us to help them? If we are going to help out

plant workers, then we are going to be accused of dividing the union? Our role

here as a government is to help those who need help and that is what we are

doing. So, we have responded. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You

cannot ask for one thing when we say we are going to do it and then criticize us

for it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, yesterday again the Premier continued to try the divide and

conquer approach with the union on the crab production quota issue rather than

seeking solutions. The Premier made a comment to the media that he will protect

fish harvesters who want to fish on a one-off basis. That was his quote.

I ask the Premier: Why are you, with your actions and words, trying to drive

a wedge between union members? What exactly does it mean when you say you will

deal with any fish harvesters on a one-off basis? How does that work in your

mind?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition knows the

difference. If he saw the interview that was on television last night and he

heard what I said - his own employees were present when I said it. I said that

we had been contacted on a one-off basis by members of the union who had a

different opinion. We are not saying we are trying to split them or we are going

to go out and protect them. That is not what was said. So there is no need to be

trying to give someone a different impression, to the people in this House, the

members of this House, the people in the galleries, or the people in the general

public. That is not what I said. I said we have been contacted on a one-off

basis by individual members. We cannot stop them from phoning us. If they phone,

we will answer their calls. We cannot do anymore than that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We can provide the tapes, which I did listen to verbatim, in which the

Premier talked about dealing with fish harvesters on a one-off basis.

Yesterday the Premier announced his intentions to create a support program

that would be established for plant workers who are affected by this particular

impasse. I say to the Premier, you have already broken your word to the fish

harvesters regarding consultation on the production quota system, and that was

in writing.

My question to the Premier is this: What assurances can you give to plant

workers that you will honour the commitment that you gave orally yesterday

anymore than you honoured the commitment you gave the fish harvesters, in

writing, that you would not do this without consultation?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I can give the fish plant workers my complete assurance that I

will honour what I said here yesterday publicly in this House of Assembly,

before visitors in the gallery, before the people who are watching on

television, before the people of the Province. I give them 100 per cent

assurance that I stand by my word.

You are misleading, as well, when you indicate that I have written - I put

something in writing. You are saying that I put something in writing. There is

nothing in writing from me. I read to you yesterday what the commitment was in

the blueprint as to what we were going to do. We were going to try to

restructure the fishery to make it stable and sustainable in the long term best

interests of the people who participate in the fishery and the people of the

Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

What we are learning from the Premier today is that unless somebody in the

Province gets a commitment in writing from the Premier himself, not from a

minister - a promise in writing from a minister is no good. You have to get it

directly from the Premier himself or it does not count.

Mr. Speaker, let me ask this question of the Premier. I would assume because

he wants everyone to believe that he thinks things through very well before he

acts, that the Premier then obviously must have done some preliminary work

before committing to creating some type of support program for plant workers. I

am sure he would acknowledge that he did not just say that out of the blue.

I ask the Premier, can he provide further details on the program? A question

like this one: Will affected crew members, truck drivers and other individuals

directly tied to the crab industry be eligible for the same kind of support that

he says he is going to provide for plant workers?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, what I said yesterday in response to a

question, I said that we would make sure we step up to help plant workers. That

is exactly what I said, and that is to give them the assurance and the comfort

that we are there for them.

MR. GRIMES: (Inaudible).

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Let me tell you, we will cross that bridge when we come

to it. It is not our intention to have to cross that bridge. This matter should

be resolved, we are hoping it should be resolved. We are doing everything we can

to see it is resolved. I wrote a letter to Mr. McCurdy saying - I have already

indicated publicly here in the House of Assembly the minister is available to

have a meeting, Mr. McCurdy is in receipt of that letter. In all fairness to

him, it was sent to him within the last two hours, but he does have a letter

indicating that we are prepared to have a meeting. So, we are doing everything

we can. Hopefully, it will not be necessary to have to provide support to the

plant workers, but if we have to we will do it. But we will cross that bridge

when we come to it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

On this side, Mr. Speaker, we share the sentiment as well that we will not

have to do it. We should not even be talking about it today, if it was not for

the pigheadedness of the Premier in the first place.

Mr. Speaker, if such a program -

[Comments from the gallery]

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Members of the public who are visitors in the gallery are reminded that the

tradition of our House is that we are not to demonstrate in any way, or to show

any approval or disapproval for any proceedings in the House. We wish visitors

to be co-operative in the understanding of the rules of the House, and to

respect the traditions and the position that the Speaker has put forward. Again,

I ask you for your co-operation.

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Again, as I said, I hope, and we hope, as the Official Opposition, that we do

not need such a program, that the government will come to its senses, have the

right meetings, and get this issue resolved satisfactorily.

Mr. Speaker, let me ask this question: If such a program that the Premier

committed to yesterday - and he is saying today it is for plant workers, it is

not for crew members, it is not for truck drivers, it is not for anybody else,

it is only for plant workers - if it is needed, and it seems like it is needed

today, unless he changes his mind, will it be contingent upon federal funding

like issues like the auditorium in Labrador and just about anything else that

the government says they will not do - we will only do it if the federal

government comes in, like in Harbour Breton - will it be contingent on federal

funding, or will it be done anyway by the Province because you, personally, as

the Premier, would have caused it?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: I tell you, the reason we need federal funding in this

Province is because of the mess that you made of the economy in this Province.

In eighteen months we are managing to start to turn this around, so we are

trying to be frugal. We are trying to get whatever help we can, whether it comes

to an auditorium in Labrador -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: - or whether it comes to assistance in Harbour Breton.

Let me make it very clear. We want to get federal funding in Harbour Breton,

but your own member knows that we made a clear and unequivocal commitment to the

people of Harbour Breton that we will help them. We will step in and intervene

when the federal government does not step up, just as we have done on salmon

poaching and a lot of other areas.

Just because they abandon a jurisdiction does not mean we are going to

abandon the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. We will be there at the end of

the day, feds or no feds.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Glad to hear it, Mr. Speaker, glad to see him accepting

responsibility for cleaning up his own mess that he is making right now in the

crab fishery, I say to the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, the impasse currently being experienced by crab

harvesters is negatively affecting one of the most profitable industries in the

provincial economy right now. Today, as well, there is a blockade in Placentia

Bay that could cause problems in other sectors of the economy if it persists.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Minister of Finance: What concerns does he have that

the refusal of the Premier to remove production quotas from the table will

negatively impact the overall provincial economy and throw the current Budget

Estimates, that we are doing these days in the Legislature, into chaos?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, I could say there is nothing that will throw

it into more chaos than was left by the former Premier of this Province;

nothing, absolutely nothing.

What we will do, we will not deal with hypothetical questions. We will assess

based on fact and based on when something happens and impacts, and we will

relate that honestly to the public. We will not hide it. We will be open with

it. We are not going to deal with hypothetical in this situation. He has asked

about fifteen times, hypothetical questions on finance. We want to deal with

specifics. We will give them when an occasion happens, and we will give it to

the people of the Province. If that requires budget adjustments, we will bring

them to this House in front of the people of the Province, in the people's

Legislature, and we will deal with them accordingly.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Let me ask the Minister of Finance another question about the hypothetical

program that the Premier has promised to plant workers if it is needed.

Preliminary estimates provided to the Official Opposition suggest that a

minimum wage placed for 6,000 plant workers for fourteen weeks to qualify for

minimum EI would start at around $20 million, if they do not earn the money

themselves from a crab fishery.

I ask the Minister of Finance: Has he provided any such preliminary estimates

to the Premier, now that he is openly speaking publicly about putting such a

program in place?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, we are focusing on positives, not negatives,

and we are hopeful that the fishery can get underway and that fishermen and

plant workers - because we know the best program -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: We know the best program for plant workers in this Province

is fishermen fishing, and landing it, and everybody happy with that process.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SULLIVAN: Of course.

What happen if a oil rig shuts down? What happens if a disaster happens? We

are going to deal with situations when they occur. Let's get on and deal with

more specific action oriented questions here in the House instead of a pile of

utter nonsense what-if situations.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would suggest to my friend and neighbour across the way that he not let his

blood pressure get up today.

Mr. Speaker, with respect to the Minister of Finance, who is also the Member

for Ferryland, let me ask him another question: Does he share in any way the

concerns and the conclusion reached by Mr. Craig Westcott, the Current Affairs

Editor of the Express , who states in today's edition that the

government's resource management sharing plan is certainly the death knell for

fish plants like the one in Aquaforte in his own district? Does he believe that

or does he believe that Mr. Westcott is crazy and silly too?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, is that the same Craig Westcott who wrote an

article that he responded to on him and that he entirely disagreed with? If

anyone read that article. It would be worth reading, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SULLIVAN: What we will do, and people in my district - I met with

people in my district. I met with 200 to 300 people in my district and I

explained the process. I answered all questions. I had people here yesterday. I

called them and spoke with them this morning on the telephone. I had a good,

frank conversation with many in my district on this issue and anytime people in

Ferryland District want a meeting to discuss this issue, I will be there and

answer their questions.

I might tell you, a lot of people feel that maybe this program could very

well work quite well. I am one believer who believes it is the best long-term

interest for people in this Province there. That is why I support that, because

I think it is the best for stability; it is best price for harvesters in the

long term; it is best for stability in plants; it is best for rural Newfoundland

and Labrador. We have a commitment to a lot of people as a government in this

Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

So, he disagrees with Mr. Westcott's conclusion that more pockets of rural

Newfoundland will shrivel and die, and he is saying that is what Mr. Westcott

believes. They usually quote Mr. Westcott because he criticizes Liberals. Mr.

Westcott says: this plan will make sure that more pockets of rural Newfoundland

will shrivel and die. He says: I think that is the best plan for Newfoundland

and Labrador, says the Minister of Finance.

Let me ask one last question, Mr. Speaker, one last question, because we have

heard today - we are having trouble getting real answers. We asked a question

about whether it will apply to truck drivers and crew members. No answer. We

asked questions to the Minister of Finance. He says: we are going to be open. No

answer.

Let me ask this question, the last one to the Minister of Transportation and

Works: Why is it in such an open and accountable government where they are going

to tell everybody everything - because that is what they believe in, that he and

his department have refused to provide information about expenditures by his

department in the District of Placentia & St. Mary's when it was requested

by his own MHA and seat mate and his caucus member, the member sitting just up

to his right. Why did he refuse to give him the information that he asked for?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and

Minister Responsible for Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, I am not aware of any refusal to supply any

information to any member of the House if they ask for it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will table for the minister - maybe he spends a bit more time in his office

to find out what is going on in his own department. The member knows exactly

what I am talking about because he is embarrassed by this particular letter.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. GRIMES: Take your time, Mr. Premier, if you want to speak, you speak.

You speak when you are recognized by the Chair -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair asks the Leader of the Opposition to finish his question.

MR. GRIMES: Yes, Mr. Speaker.

The minister responded that he would provide information at all times. I will

provide to the House, and I have already provided to the media, a letter

yesterday from the minister's office to the Member for Placentia & St.

Mary's saying your request for information about expenditures in your district

is denied. You applied under the Freedom of Information Act. He had to ask his

own colleague, under the Freedom of Information Act, and he was turned down

because he did not send in the money to pay for it.

Now, I would ask you to get the letter, it is right here, find out what is

going on in your department. You are so open and accountable, you will not even

tell your own members when they ask a question.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and

Minister Responsible for Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, everybody in this House are treated the same,

no matter what side of the House they sit on.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: When it comes to seeking information or providing

information, Mr. Speaker, everybody is treated the same.

Let me say this to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, I got back in

this Province last night as a proud father who was out attending his daughter's

wedding. I have not had a chance to read what happened in my department. I was

at it up until five minutes before I came to the House. If a letter went out

under the signature of the deputy, I am sure it was the right thing to do, it

provided the right information. I make no apologies, Mr. Speaker, for being out

of this House for a week to attend my daughter's wedding. None!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The applause that was given by all of them, including the Premier, means they

agree with the minister that this is the standard, Mr. Speaker. This is the

standard that the government will apply equally to everyone, the minister said.

Equally to everyone.

The request, Mr. Speaker, is this: Can you please tell me how much money has

been spent from your department in my district since November 1, 2003? Not a

very complicated question. Not any detail. That is the question, and the

minister has said: Anyone who asks a question like that must ask for it under

the Freedom of Information Act and must pay money to get it. Now is that the

standard, I ask the Premier, that if anybody wants to know an answer to a simple

question like that from the open and accountable Premier, that you have to ask

for it in writing, you have to ask under the law and you have to pay or you will

get no answer?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and

Minister Responsible for Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, that question coming from the government and

the Premier of the day who wrote the Freedom of Information Act. Mr. Speaker,

what silliness, what foolishness, with all of the important things that are

facing - issues facing the people of this Province today, that is the best the

Opposition can do, I say shame on you!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say, Mr. Speaker, the fact that a minister -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, the fact that a Minister of the Crown, who sits

in a government -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask members on both sides of the House for their co-operation so the

question can be asked and there can be appropriate time for the responses.

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would suggest that a Minister of the Crown suggesting that a standard being

set by a government who touted before Christmas and brought in a bill about

openness, transparency and accountability, and said that would be the hallmark

of this government, would admit today, and be cheered by the Premier, to say,

that if you ask a simple question of this government the standard that would be

equally applied to everybody in the Province is, you must ask in writing, you

must ask under a piece of legislation, and you must pay a fee to get an answer.

I ask the Premier: Do you find that to be silly? Do you find that to be

something that is not worth talking about? Don't you find that to be a major

contradiction in terms of how you promised the people of the Province that you

and your government would respond to them?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and

Minister Responsible for Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, what I say again is, what is silly is the

questions coming from the Leader of the Opposition. He knows they are silly.

There is no basis to them. There is one set of rules for all members in this

House. No matter what side of the House you sit on, Mr. Speaker, those are the

rules that you use to obtain information.

I did not say it all had to be in writing. That is not what the memo says,

Mr. Speaker. The Leader of the Opposition, for the second, third, or fourth time

today, has been saying things that are not true. He tried to quote the Premier

yesterday in saying something that is not true. He is trying to do it again now,

Mr. Speaker.

With all of the important issues facing the people of Newfoundland and

Labrador, the alternate Premier, the alternate government, that is all they can

get on about in the Legislature today. I say, again, shame on you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bellevue.

We have time in your allocation for one question.

MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, on Friday morning, on an Open Line program, the

Premier told the crab fishers that the solution to the current problem was for

the fishermen to get back on the water. Mr. Speaker, fishermen are back on the

water this morning in Placentia Bay, blocking shipping lanes. What is the

Premier going to do to get these people back on the water fishing crab, instead

of back on the water blocking the shipping lanes in Placentia Bay? Mr. Premier,

when are you going to act and take this seriously, and not act like it is a

joke?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

First of all, to the latter part of the member's question, I think, in all

honesty, if you heard the Premier today, he has taken the initiative to write

the President of the FFAW a couple of hours ago. We will wait for the response

in trying to reach some sort of resolve to the current, I guess, situation and

dispute that is within the Province.

With respect to the action taken by fish harvesters this morning in Placentia

Bay, blocking shipping lanes and potentially blocking oil tankers, and oil

tankers being blocked, it is a very, very serious issue, I say to the member and

to all members. There are issues of public safety involved. There are issues of

impacts upon the oil and gas industry. All of those matters have been referred

to the appropriate authorities: Transport Canada, the Canadian Coast Guard, the

RCMP, and they will deal with that. Government has no intention of putting its

finger into a situation where the arms of authority within the country and

within the Province have engaged to deal with the situation. We will wait for

that to unfold, but I will say, in all honesty, that the impacts of such an

action obviously have concerns for this government and should be of concern to

all people in the Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Premier.

We are now five days into an unprecedented shutdown of the fishery, caused by

government action. Mr. Speaker, it is encouraging, however, to see that the

Premier is taking some responsibility for the damage he is causing to the

industry by offering to support plant workers.

Mr. Speaker, will he go further and ensure us that he will also support fish

harvesters, crew members, truck drivers and others who are also affected by

this, or is he adopting a policy and a strategy of divide and conquer, to

conquer those who oppose his policy?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I think the Premier has already answered that question earlier today. The

Premier responded yesterday to a press release by a member of the Opposition,

and questions in the House from a member of the Opposition, on would the

government be prepared to assist plant workers should this tie-up continue on

indefinitely. The Premier responded in the way that everybody knows of at this

point.

Mr. Speaker, all I can say further to that is to again reinforce what the

Premier has said. You know, we hope that we can find a resolution to this in the

short term. We hope that we can find a way to get harvesters back on the water,

and processing operations in production so that plant workers, fishermen,

truckers, and everybody who are involved in the industry can carry on with their

livelihood, and we can come back to the other issues that are important to the

people of the Province. That is our goal. It is the goal that we have had from

the beginning. Our goal, also, is to try to find a solution for the fishing

industry in the long term so that we can avoid the chaos that we saw in 2004,

2003, 2002, 2001, and many other years.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is nice to know that the Premier responds to questions for the media but

not from members of this House, on the floor of this House, where he is required

to answer questions.

Mr. Speaker, now that the Premier has acknowledged and accepted some

responsibility for the damage that he is causing to the industry in this

Province, will he go further and reconsider his plans, as requested by the FFAW,

and not just invite them into a little chat, as he did last Friday on the radio?

Is he prepared to go further, reconsider his plans, consider the alternatives,

have a legitimate look at the plans that have been put on the table by the

fishermen's union, and go back to the drawing board and do the right thing in

consultation with the fishermen, the fish harvesters, and the plant workers of

this Province?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

You would believe, Mr. Speaker -

[Comments from the gallery]

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Speaker reminds members of the public, or visitors in the gallery, again,

that they should not participate in any way. If the disruption continues, the

Speaker will have no choice but to have the galleries cleared so that the House

can continue its business.

The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, you would think, if you listened to the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi, that the problems we have in the industry today are totally as a result of

the raw material sharing pilot project that we have proposed. They fail to

remember, Mr. Speaker, the statements made by the Minister of Fisheries and

Aquaculture on June 6, 2003, who said, "The fish resources around the

Province are the property of all residents. Those that have the privilege of

harvesting and processing these resources must be respectful of this fact. It is

on this basis that governments must ensure that the economic rents from these

resources are equitably distributed."

She also said, "The destructive level of competition characteristic of

this season must be brought under control. In this dispute, plant workers have

been held hostage. The people with the lowest incomes are being impacted the

greatest. We must look to our past and remember how we have worked

together...."

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. TAYLOR: "The current system may not be providing an equitable

distribution of benefits."

Mr. Speaker, that was the situation in 2003.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. TAYLOR: What we are trying to deal with now are past problems that

have been neglected for far too long, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The time allocated for Question Period has expired.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

Tabling of Documents.

Notices of Motion.

Notices of Motion

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Gander.

MR. O'BRIEN:

WHEREAS a consequence of the relocation of weather

forecasting services from this Province has been that the workplace and social

activities of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians are being conducted in a far

greater hazardous environment; and

WHEREAS the social, economic, business and commercial operations of our

Province are impacted negatively by inaccurate weather forecasts at a far

greater rate of frequency. In particular:

a) threats to the safety of fishermen;

b) havoc and lost productivity inflicted upon the operation of educational

institutions;

c) turmoil and chaotic conditions that are created when patients

must reschedule long awaited appointments because of cancellations due to

inaccurate forecasting of impending storms;

d) impairment of groups such as

business committees, sports organizations and volunteer groups to conduct their

affairs in a timely, economic and effective manner so as to maintain a

reasonable flow of activity; and

[Disturbance in the gallery]

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair orders that the galleries be cleared and that this House is now in

recess.

Recess

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I do believe before the House recessed we were hearing the Notices of Motion

by the hon. the Member for Gander. I do believe that he has some concluding

sentences he would like to read into the record.

MR. O'BRIEN:

WHEREAS as a result of undependable weather forecasting,

it is clearly evident that this Province is paying an economic penalty far

greater than could be anticipated, due to: the economic impact upon the coastal

and rural workforce; the loss of productivity and added costs within the medical

field when hours of work for specialists and medical staff is not fully utilized

because of rescheduling caused by erroneous weather predictions; the added costs

to patients and all citizens who are forced to make repeated journeys when

appointments are rescheduled because of inaccurate weather forecasts; the

negative economic impact on specific aspects of our tourist industry, like

Adventure Tourism, who rely on accurate forecasting for their livelihood.

THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador

to move weather forecasting services from Gander to mainland sites and to return

full weather forecasting services to this Province.

MR. HARRIS: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: A point of order has been raised by the hon. the Member for

Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

During Question Period the Premier, in response to a question, made reference

to and cited a letter that he wrote to the President of the FFAW in which he

cited a request for a meeting. I am wondering whether or not that letter can be

tabled in this House under the normal rules for referencing documents so that we

can all know whether or not he was calling them in for a chat or whether there

was any substantive offer being made to the fishermen's union in this request.

The normal rule is that when a minister references and cites a document, he

is required to table the same. He made reference to this correspondence and

cited his request for a meeting with the FFAW. I wonder if that could be tabled

under the normal rules?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

To the point of order, fair enough. I guess you are looking for an

undertaking to table the letter. I will endeavour to see if I can get a copy of

it and do exactly that before the House ends today, I say to the member.

MR. SPEAKER: I do believe that will resolve the concern of the hon. the

member.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

Orders of the Day

Private Members' Day

MR. SPEAKER: It being Wednesday, Private Members' Day, I do believe

that we have a private member's motion by the hon. the Member for Grand Bank,

and we ask her now to present her resolution to the House.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I stand today to speak to my private member's motion which deals with the

Burin Peninsula health care. I guess I should have titled it probably the lack

of funding for health care on the Burin Peninsula.

The motion itself cites:

WHEREAS there is a need on the Burin Peninsula for improved health care

services, in particular, a CAT scan; and

WHEREAS current medical needs are not being met because of the lack of

adequate facilities and medical equipment; and

WHEREAS these needs were identified and brought forward to government by

medical professionals; and

WHEREAS government committed during the election to complete the health

facility in Grand Bank and address the health care needs of residents on the

Burin Peninsula; and

WHEREAS government had an opportunity in the budget, with a projected cash

surplus, to address these needs but chose not to fund any improvements to health

care services on the Burin Peninsula;

THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that this House of Assembly calls on government to

place a CT scanner on the Burin Peninsula and recommit to construction of the

health care facility in Grand Bank in this fiscal year.

Mr. Speaker, I cannot emphasis enough how important this private member's

motion is, and, of course, we all know a private member's motion is an

opportunity to try and get some redress for what is considered to be a lack of

recognition by a government in terms of the issues that arise in a particular

district. It is not just for my district, the District of Grand Bank, but what

we are looking at here is the entire Burin Peninsula, and the fact that if

anyone is familiar with the Burin Peninsula at all, how they could possibly make

a decision that would be contrary to meeting the needs of the people of the

Burin Peninsula is beyond imagination. I have some serious issues with the

respect that this government decided not to fulfill a commitment that was made

by the Liberal government to put a CT scanner on the Burin Peninsula. That is

just one of a number of pieces of diagnostic medical equipment that is so

important for people who live in remote and rural parts of Newfoundland and

Labrador.

What happened in this Budget was nothing more than an assault on rural

Newfoundland and Labrador, certainly an assault on the Burin Peninsula. For

anyone to look at the distance you have to travel, the fact that the roads in

winter are treacherous, the fact that in the spring we are looking at washouts,

and clearly to suggest that - as the Minister of Health and Community Services

did - if you need the services of a CAT scan, than just drive to Clarenville. It

is only a two-week waiting period. So, his message to the people on the Burin

Peninsula was: I am sorry, but we are not going to put a CAT scan on the Burin

Peninsula. If you need the services of a CAT scan you will have to wait the two

weeks. You will have to drive to Clarenville. Now, that is well and done for

someone who, I suppose, does not understand the situation on the Burin

Peninsula, is not familiar with the weather patterns, who does not understand

the road conditions and who needs to understand, who needs to be shown that it

is a wrong decision. That, in fact, to put a CAT scan on the Burin Peninsula

would be the right and proper thing to do. To suggest they do not have the money

for it, which he did not do, which surprised me, because I thought what he would

say was - as they said to other things that was requested in the Budget. He

said: Well, you guys left a mess so we did not have the money to do it. But he

did not say that. What he said was: If you want a CAT scan, go to Clarenville.

Of course, we hear this government talk about regions. In fact, the Member

for Burin-Placentia West is always talking about a regional approach. Well, my

concern is that the region for the Burin Peninsula is going to become

Clarenville. What is happening with this government is that the Burin Peninsula

is losing its identity, an area of this Province that has been well known for

offering services where people work, where people live, where people have grown

up. It is their home, and we have seen a government now that is taking away the

comforts of home. I applaud the Member for Trinity North. Obviously, he has been

making the case for his district, certainly for Clarenville, and I applaud him

for that, but to my chagrin, and I think to the chagrin of anybody else who is

concerned on the Burin Peninsula, the Member for Burin-Placentia West has not

made the same case. Here we are looking at things being directed towards

Clarenville. We are seeing it in health care, we are seeing in education, and I

commend - there is nothing wrong with Clarenville. I commend the Member for

Trinity North, heaven forbid that I should be one to commend the Member for

Trinity North for anything, but at least he is standing up for his constituents,

and the people on the Burin Peninsula are living in fear, continuing to live in

fear. The previous Administration put several pieces of diagnostic medical

equipment in the Burin Peninsula, particularly in the health care centre in

Burin, because it was the right thing to do: a mammography unit, a radiography

unit, a bone density machine, all imperative to deliver quality health care.

We need a CT scan on the Burin Peninsula, and I for one will continue to

fight for that most vital piece of medical equipment for the people who live on

the Burin Peninsula. I ask the Member for Burin-Placentia West to fight with me

to make sure, as this motion asks, that in fact funding for a CT scanner will be

found in this fiscal year. It is important, it is needed, and you have to

understand, if you are in a vehicle accident - and there is a case of a young

woman, in fact, who was in such an accident, and there was swelling on the brain

and the doctors did not know what to do. They could not attempt to send her by

ambulance into St. John's or into Clarenville so they thought they would

airlift her to St. John's. Well, guess what? The airstrip in Winterland was

fogged in and she could not be airlifted either. She had to wait days. Her

family had no idea what they were going to do. They were petrified, they were

worried, absolutely worried, because the doctor was saying we really do not know

what to do. We do not know what is going on inside of her head. She needs access

to a CT scan.

That is just one example, and we all know of people who have been in

accidents, people who need to have access to those vital pieces of diagnostic

medical equipment. When you live on the Burin Peninsula, it is like living on

the Northern Peninsula, it is like living on the Bonavista Peninsula. It is

important to understand rural Newfoundland and Labrador. My fear is that this

government has lost sight of the importance of rural Newfoundland and Labrador

to the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. You do not understand. You are not

being told. The message is not getting to those who make the decisions, that

rural Newfoundland and Labrador matters, that you cannot treat it like you would

treat an urban centre.

You cannot look at Newfoundland as only existing along the Trans-Canada

Highway. You drive four hours to get down to my district - four hours. Imagine

if you are down there and you are in a car accident, as happened with this young

woman from Grand Bank, and cannot get access to a CT scan. You go and pay off

the mortgage on The Rooms. You used the surplus that you had to pay off the

mortgage on The Rooms in St. John's. Well, tell families in rural Newfoundland

and Labrador how important that is. Explain to them how important it is to pay

off the mortgage on The Rooms instead of funding a CT scan for the Burin

Peninsula.

Talk about the health care facility in Grand Bank, the health care facility

that provides services to several communities. We have a cottage hospital that

is seventy years old, the only one left in Newfoundland and Labrador. It is not

even a safe environment in which to visit a doctor let alone having doctors,

nurses and technicians working there. It is a shame to have anybody working

under those conditions, let alone going there and trying to receive good quality

health care, but it is still there. It is still there because this government

refused to follow through on a commitment that was made. We have a facility that

is standing. We have what they call now the most expensive gazebo in North

America; $3.5 million spent on steel waiting to have a structure put around it.

It is a sad day when people have to look at that and know that is the respect

they are getting from their government. I say their government because, as a

government, you represent everybody in Newfoundland and Labrador. I may be the

member for the district but you are the government and they expect you to act on

their behalf, just as when we were a government we acted on behalf of everyone

in the Province.

The irony in all of this is that Grand Bank, where the facility is located,

in the last provincial election actually voted PC. The Community of Grand Bank

actually voted PC because the Premier stood there - on three occasions he

visited, during the election - and promised that he would deliver that facility.

MR. JOYCE: He never?

MS FOOTE: Yes, he did.

In fact, he said the facility was started here and it will finish here.

They believed him. They saw the winds of change were blowing. They did not

want to lose out on an opportunity to see this magnificent facility completed,

to see that we could get rid of the old cottage hospital, that we could take

what is now a senior citizens home, which was built for patients requiring

Levels I and II care, which we no longer do, of course, in seniors homes, but we

now take care of people requiring Levels III and IV. We are delivering care in a

senior citizens facility down there for people who require acute care Levels III

and IV in a facility that was designed to take care of patients who require

Levels I and II.

We have rooms that were never meant to accommodate people with such needs. We

have staff working in a facility in small washrooms where they have to take in

their patients, try and get two people in those washrooms, and it is a squeeze.

It is not right. It is not proper. It is inappropriate. It is unrealistic. It is

unfair. This government is allowing this to happen. Why? It is beyond me. You

have the surplus. You have more money now than we ever had when we were the

government, money allocated from the federal government for health care alone,

millions and millions and millions of dollars. In fact, for the CAT scan, I will

never understand why you could not take some of the money that was allocated by

the federal government for diagnostic medical equipment and purchase a CAT scan.

In fact, the Premier signed his name to a document that the money would, in

fact, be used for what it was intended, and that was to purchase diagnostic

medical equipment. So, nobody can stand in this House of Assembly or outside of

this House of Assembly, or anywhere, and tell me that you could not afford to

put a CAT scan on the Burin Peninsula. The only thing I have to assume is that

you do not understand, are not willing to listen to, do not appreciate, the

situation that people find themselves in on the Burin Peninsula. I have to

assume, as well, that the one government member who represents the Burin

Peninsula has not made the case or you have chosen to ignore him when he has.

That is a sad reflection not only on that individual but on the government.

We have a need for a dialysis unit on the Burin Peninsula. I am told now that

numbers are such that, in fact, it requires a unit be put there. Anyone who is

familiar with dialysis patients and what they require knows only too well the

hardships placed not only on the individual but in particular on the family,

when they have to travel to another location - not only to travel but actually

move to another location - in order to receive the medical treatment that they

need in order to survive. For people who have that difficulty and need that

particular service, it is not a pleasant outlook for any of them. They have to

leave behind their homes, their families, everything they know and love, in

fact, all of the things that would help someone get better, because we all know,

if you are sick, it is much better to be surrounded by those who care for you

and can offer you the support and comfort that you need, along with the medical

treatment that you need.

Again, my fear is that the government has somehow turned a blind eye, not

only to the Burin Peninsula and its health care needs but to all of rural

Newfoundland and Labrador. It is a sad day when people have to beg, have to

plead, to get access to proper medical care. That is what is happening here on

the Burin Peninsula.

When the Minister of Health and Community Services stood and acknowledged the

work of the health care foundation on the Burin Peninsula, acknowledged all of

their volunteer efforts to fundraise for different pieces of medical equipment,

and in this case for a CT scan, he had the nerve to tell them, look at another

priority. What he told them was, forget the CT scan. You are not getting it. You

do not need it. If you need it, go to Clarenville.

In essence, what he told the people of the Burin Peninsula was, you can

forget about a CAT scan. We know the Premier is refusing to live up to his

commitment with respect to the health care facility. We know, too, that it is

not because there is no money available. In Grand Bank, where the facility is

standing, waiting -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The time allocated for the member's introductory comments has expired.

MS FOOTE: Time to clue up, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: A few moment to clue up? Has leave been granted?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted for some concluding statements.

MS FOOTE: Thank you.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MS FOOTE: Yes, that is right.

Just to make the point that, where we have a facility standing that requires

a building to be constructed around it, the fear is that if it does not happen

soon then the steel is going to deteriorate and all of the money that has been

invested to date, the $3.5 million, will have been money lost.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Just about every single thing that member said is inaccurate, and I will

point out each of these reasons why. The first point I will clarify, Mr.

Speaker, as to why it is wrong is, you cannot end a fiscal year, whether you

have a surplus in that fiscal year or whatever, or whether there is a deficit

there and you allocate money - you cannot carry that money over from the end of

one year and use it in the next year. That contravenes the Financial

Administration Act that your government broke year after year, and the Auditor

General rapped you on the knuckles every year for it. You cannot use that money.

Whether it is for a cancer clinic, whether it is for a hospital, whatever it is

for, you cannot use it. That collapses and goes into the consolidated fund or

lack thereof and reduces borrowing or runs up extra costs.

If that member thinks we are flushed with money -

MS FOOTE: (Inaudible).

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, I only get fifteen minutes, she gets thirty.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: I didn't interrupt her and I would like to be heard, and

put some facts on the table, so that the member can hear and respond to me when

she gets a second chance that I don't have.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please!

I ask the members on my left and on my right if we could have co-operation so

that the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board can give his

commentary. He has limited time. We all know fifteen minutes is the allocated

time, and I ask members for their co-operation so we can listen to the Minister

of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

The hon. the Minister.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The member thinks we are flushed with money. I will tell her the situation.

Last year, the year ending in 2003, when we took over from them, in that fiscal

year was the highest deficit in our Province's history, $914 million. The year

before that, their second last year in government, they ran a deficit of $650

million, the second highest in history. This past year we had the third highest

deficit in the history or our Province, $473 million. She thinks we are flushed

with money. We are spending half a billion more than we are taking in and we are

in a better position than they ever were. That member sat in Cabinet since 1996

and the government sat there -

AN HON. MEMBER: Before.

MR. SULLIVAN: Before, actually, since 1989, that government was in power.

The Burin Peninsula, I believe, had one, if not two Cabinet ministers, at times.

Never, in the time they were there, ever moved money to put a CAT scan on the

Burin Peninsula, never did it once.

MS FOOTE: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: Let me finish. I didn't interrupt you. I think it is only

fair to give me an opportunity. In fifteen years, Mr. Speaker, they did

absolutely nothing. What they did before the election in 2003, they went around

and promised cancer clinics and CT scans and more MRIs. They put out hundreds of

millions of dollars.

MS FOOTE: (Inaudible).

MR. SULLIVAN: She doesn't want to hear it. Hundreds of millions of

dollars when we had a million dollar deficit, and spent it. They knew they could

not deliver on it. They knew if they ever had to get elected they could not

deliver on it, and then left it to us to deal with the mess that they had.

I will talk about the CT scan on the Burin Peninsula. I will get to it in a

minute. You are wrong on your facts, that it is the only cottage hospital left

in this Province. You are absolutely wrong. It is not the only cottage hospital

left in the Province. She is wrong on that count. She thinks that - when did you

write? When are you on the record? Are you on the record? If you are, send it to

us, table it, where you requested that. On the Burin Peninsula, she is trying to

play politics with an issue.

Here is what happened in our Budget last year. Mr. Speaker, here is what

happened. The Premier of this Province - and I attended with him at the First

Ministers Meeting in September last year when we went. The Premier was

instrumental in getting health money raised up from $12 billion to over $18

billion, that allows us to get $47 million more for health care in this Province

than we ever got when you were there. Mr. Speaker, we are spending not just the

$47 million more a year we are getting, we spent close to $120 million more on

health care in this year's Budget than we did last year. There are letters

that have come in from community health people involved out in the field.

Doctors and other people we have spoken with have complimented government on the

money they put into health care in this Province this past year.

The member only needs to know - she is playing politics with the situation.

Here is why, Mr. Speaker. On the Burin Peninsula region there is a two-week

waiting period for a CT scan. There are parts in this Province where they wait

two and three times as long. Should we use a priority system to give equal

access or should we give people in one part of the Province three times the

service of another part of the Province? These decisions -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SULLIVAN: Talk about isolation. Trepassey, the longest distance by

road to any hospital in this Province. Talk about St. Vincent's and St. Mary's

Bay and St. Shotts and those areas. It is a two hour drive from the southern

tip, at the best of circumstances, to get to a hospital. Medical professionals

make decisions based on needs of people and decisions on this side of the

government, Mr. Speaker, are based on medical advice. If they wanted to do

something, why didn't you ask them did they do it? She represented that

district as a minister for several years - six, seven years or more - and did

absolutely nothing to put a CT scan. On the dying days -

MS FOOTE: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: On the dying days of their government - Mr. Speaker, about

five times she has interrupted me.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Again, I am asking members on my right and on my left for their co-operation.

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In the dying days of her government, promised hundreds of millions of

dollars. They knew they could not deliver. Why didn't you do it when you were

a minister? Why didn't you deliver for your people when you were a minister?

Blaming it on the people on this side of the House. That is not the way to do

it. That is being petty, being political, and you know it. You did not deliver

it and you expect us to deliver it when medical -

MS FOOTE: (Inaudible).

MR. SULLIVAN: We would like to see -

[Disturbance in the gallery]

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I am asking members of the public in the gallery, who are in the process of

leaving, we appreciate your attendance, however, they should not participate in

any way, show approval or disapproval for anything that is said by any member on

any side of the House. If the Speaker is required to bring this matter to the

attention of the House again, the Speaker will have no choice but to close the

galleries for the balance of the sitting day.

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, our Province is in a mess because people are

thinking like that former minister is thinking. They (inaudible) with money when

you have half a billion less in this third worst fiscal year in the history of

our Province and stands up, when she is no longer in government, and asks us to

deliver something she did not see fit to deliver when she was in the position.

Now that is hypocrisy! That is hypocrisy when you say one thing when you are in

one position and do something different.

MS FOOTE: (Inaudible), Loyola.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, we would love to see a CT scan in all parts of

the Province. We would love to see CT scanners everywhere. We would love to see

health facilities everywhere.

[Disturbance in the gallery]

MR. SULLIVAN: When you put facilities in an area we take expert or

medical advice -

[Disturbance in the gallery]

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

If members of the public who are in the gallery continue to show disrespect

for the authority of the Chair, the Chair has no choice but to invoke Standing

Order 22, I direct that the galleries be cleared and that they remain cleared

for the balance of the sitting day.

Recess

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Continuing debate on the resolution by the hon. the Member for Grand Bank

District.

I do believe the Minister of Finance and the President of Treasury Board was

speaking to the House and that we had about six minutes left in the member's

address.

MR. SULLIVAN: No, I had zero time left.

MR. SPEAKER: Zero time?

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Bellevue District.

MR. BARRETT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I guess it is with great regret this afternoon that I have to

get up and speak to this particular resolution. I sat here for the last number

of minutes and listened to the Minister of Finance and the President of Treasury

Board give a very rousing speech about ranting and roaring. It is interesting

that next week, on April 20, I will be celebrating my sixteenth anniversary of

sitting in this House of Assembly representing the great people of the District

of Bellevue. Over the years, I have sat and listened to the Member for Ferryland.

As a matter of fact, at that particular time we used to call him the ambulance

chaser because everyday he was up in Question Period ranting and roaring about

the great need for health care facilities around Newfoundland and Labrador, and

that we need to get more money out there. This year in the Budget, the first

Budget they brought down, he was so concerned about the health care facilities

in Newfoundland and Labrador that he allocated $300,000 to upgrade a road that

did not even belong to the government in his own district. He talked about the

previous government wasting money and we should be more conscious of the

dollars. Anyway, he was prepared to spend $300,000 to upgrade a private road in

his district.

Mr. Speaker, Private Members' Resolutions are a very important part of the

democratic process. They are an opportunity for private members on the

Opposition side and on the government side to raise issues of critical

importance in their districts and in the regions of the Province that they

represent. They gave an opportunity to stress the importance.

When I sat on the government side, there were occasions when the Opposition

presented Private Member's Resolutions and expressed concerns about things

that were happening within the Province and within their districts. On a number

of occasions, this government that I was a part of listened to the members and

how important it was, and eventually Private Member's Resolutions became part,

became a bill within the House of Assembly that was passed into law. As a matter

of fact, one of the most prominent bills that was passed in the House, Mr.

Speaker, was a bill that you, as a private member, had introduced in this House.

Our government listened to your concerns at that particular time and introduced

a resolution and a bill to give effect to the same. That was the right thing to

do.

Mr. Speaker, before the Easter break there was a prime opportunity within

this House of Assembly, there was a bill before the House of Assembly - for the

viewing audience, a bill before this House of Assembly is to pass a law, to

enforce a law, that governs expenditures within the Province of Newfoundland and

Labrador.

At the end of the fiscal year this government that is in power was left with

a $103 million surplus; a $103 million surplus over and above what they had

budgeted for. What they decided to do was to take money from that particular

surplus and pay off a mortgage on The Rooms in St. John's, and the other part

was to pay off money of the education trust fund.

A supplementary supply bill was introduced and we proposed an amendment to

that bill which, if the members on the government side had to pass, would have

become law. What we did at that particular time was indicate that some of the

money should be used to put the new health care facility in Grand Bank, the CAT

scan for the Burin Peninsula hospital, the cancer clinic for Grand Falls, and

the auditorium for Goose Bay. The private members on the government side of the

House - a good friend of mine who represents the District of Burin-Placentia

West, had an opportunity at that particular time to stand in his place and

represent the people who elected them in the great District of Burin-Placentia

West. A lot of these people who live in the District of Burin-Placentia West are

friends and relatives of mine. Most of my relatives live within the District of

Burin-Placentia West. Right now, they are in a difficult situation within that

district and within that community. He had an opportunity to represent his

constituents, but he chose not to. He decided to toe the government line and not

support the people within his district. I have great respect for the man -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): Order, please!

MR. BARRETT: I have great respect for the member who represents the

District of Burin-Placentia West, and I am sure he is genuine, and has great

concerns with the people he represents. I would advise him that this was an

opportunity for him to stand up for the people within his district.

As you are all well aware, the District of Bellevue covers a great number of

communities on the Burin Peninsula in the Fortune Bay part of my district. There

is a great crisis right now in the District of Fortune Bay with regards to

health care. There is a great need for more doctors and more greater care within

the Fortune Bay part of the district.

Right now, we have a doctor who is overworked, a great doctor, one of the

greatest doctors that ever practiced in Newfoundland and Labrador, in Bay L'Argent,

Doctor Acharya. I have been at this person's home in the middle of the night

sitting down having a cup of tea with him and the knock comes on the door.

Sometimes the knock comes on the door with the person with a finger in one hand

trying to get in to get it sowed on. This doctor dedicates his life to the

people of Fortune Bay.

and travel right to Burin to be able to see a doctor. At one time, when the

Liberal government was in power in Newfoundland and Labrador, the doctor visited

in Grand Le Pierre and in Terrenceville. This government, that has no concern

for rural Newfoundland and Labrador, has cut out that particular service. I

think it is utterly ridiculous. A lady, ninety-two years old in a wheelchair,

has to be bundled aboard a car and shipped off to Marystown to receive medical

attention. This government says it is done because we do not have enough money,

this government that sent Bill Rowe to Ottawa for $350,000 on a six month

to get aboard of a car and travel to Burin to seek medical attention, and this

is a caring government? Come on! It is utterly ridiculous!

They had enough money to spend $500,000 on a study to do a tunnel for the

Strait of Belle Isle, $500,000 wasted, to tell the Premier what people in the

Department of Transportation and Works could have told him without spending the

money.

Mr. Speaker, I have been a member for sixteen years. I visit a lot of people

in my district. I spend a lot of time visiting people in my district, and there

is nothing more heartbreaking than to see or visit a home where a senior citizen

has come down with Alzheimer's and one member of the family is left. Recently,

I was involved with a family where the parent involved was just in the early

stages of Alzheimer's, medically discharged from a hospital, waiting for a

bed. Do you know what this caring health system was going to do? It was going to

send somebody from the extreme East Coast of Newfoundland and Labrador to a

transition bed in Stephenville.

We are talking about the people on the Burin Peninsula and, for these people

who are not aware, the people on the Burin Peninsula are people who worked by

the sweat of their brow, people who left and went out on the draggers under all

kinds of extreme conditions and under poor working conditions, and worked by the

sweat of their brow. Now that gentleman is eighty years old and, after working

all their lives, you are saying to them: Go to a transition bed in Stephenville.

Look, senior citizens need to be as close to their home base as possible

because of their family. I compliment the Member for Trinity North. I hope that

the chronic care facility goes in Clarenville, but there are no guarantees. The

Premier made the commitment before. He made the commitment to the people of

Grand Bank and did not live up to it.

I have people in my district right now - when this person was in the Cabinet,

the money was allocated for the study and to do the preliminary planning.

Remember the Member for Trinity North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair is have difficulty hearing the Member for Bellevue speak. I ask

that the member be heard in silence.

The hon. the Member for Bellevue.

MR. BARRETT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This is a very serious issue. It strikes to the heart of me, when you have to

go and visit your constituents and talk to senior citizens and there is no place

for them to go, when you have to go to talk to people in the communities and say

you have to go to a chronic care facility in St. John's.

I just had an aunt who died in August, who had to leave her home and come

into St. John's. It was lucky that I was in St. John's and was able to visit

her, but supposing somebody in Terrenceville or Grand Le Pierre, their mother or

father has to come into St. John's and go into a chronic care facility. How

often are they going to visit their parents? How often? Tell me this. You had

the opportunity, when you had the $103 million, to put a decent facility in

Grand Bank, Newfoundland and Labrador, for the people on the Burin Peninsula who

worked by the sweat of their brow and made this Province what it is today, and

you people on the other side, like puppets, supported the Minister of Finance

and the Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador whose objective is to wipe out

rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

Somebody said to me the other day, when I was out in the district at a

function: Percy, when are you going to get the money to dig a trench across by

Goobies? Because this government is hell-bent on eliminating the Burin Peninsula

from the economy of Newfoundland and Labrador.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. BARRETT: The Member for Kilbride can laugh all he likes, but the

people on the Burin Peninsula are feeling neglected by this particular

government, and alienated by this particular government. You tell that to a

senior citizen who has to leave home. You tell that to a senior citizen, that

they have to go into a dilapidated condition in Grand Bank in a old facility

that is seventy years old. You tell them that. You tell that to the people of

Grand Bank and the people of Burin, the people of Red Harbour and Baine Harbour

and Boat Harbour, and all these communities, the people who have worked all

their lives to provide for the families, and now, in their senior years, have to

be uprooted from their homes and sent miles and miles away from their family.

You can sit there, Member for Kilbride, in your heartless mood, but this

Member for Bellevue has a heart, and the reason why we allocated the money for

the Grand Bank facility is to put a heart on Grand Bank and a heart for the

people on the Burin Peninsula.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. BARRETT: Yes.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, I support wholeheartedly this resolution, and

today I will stand in my place and support my hon. colleague from Grand Bank,

and support the people on the Burin Peninsula, for this badly needed health care

facility in Grand Bank and CT scanner for Burin. I have to vote with my

conscience and for the people up there. Most of them are good friends and

relatives of mine. We have no other recourse but to do the decent thing and take

some of the money with which they are going to pay off The Rooms in St. John's,

Newfoundland and Labrador, and put a facility in Grand Bank for the people on

the Burin Peninsula, and a CT scanner.

A few years ago - if you want to talk about the conditions on the Burin

Peninsula - I once went to the Burin Peninsula to do a Canada Pension appeal.

For five days I was stuck on the Burin Peninsula and could not get through the

rock cut in Rushoon because of drifting, and bad weather conditions and road

conditions at that particular time.

I am calling on the members of the government today to vote for this

particular resolution and the government tomorrow bring in a bill, that they

will do a Supplementary Supply Bill, and live up to the promise -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I remind the hon. Member for Bellevue that his time has expired.

MR. BARRETT: - that the Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador made to the

people of Grand Bank. A promise is a promise.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burin-Placentia West.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It gives me pleasure to stand and speak to the member's motion. I am

particularly pleased to hear the Member for Bellevue get up and speak because,

as much as he has represented his district, the portion of his district that is

on the Burin Peninsula I am very, very familiar with. As a matter of fact, Mr.

Speaker, I was principal in the school in Jacques Fontaine for some six years,

so I probably know the issues of that portion of his district almost as well as

the member himself.

If there is one thing that rings true in his statement today, Mr. Speaker,

that speaks well of this particular issue - and it is true what he said, this

particular area of his district and the northern part of my district rarely gets

mentioned in this House. He is right, there is not the medical staff down there

to tend to their needs. As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, on Sunday past I met

with a group in the northern part of my district, and this is exactly what they

are doing. They have asked for fair representation on the Peninsula, that if

there is something that is going to be in Grand Bank, or in Marystown, that they

have the same access to care. I was very pleased to hear the Member for Bellevue

bring these issues up.

I thought I would start by looking at some of the things that came through in

the Budget that I feel are as much for the people on the Burin Peninsula as they

are for anywhere in the Province. As I glance down through the items, I look at

a number that says there will be $23.2 million invested this year in additional

procedures, medical procedures. We are looking at $44,000 additional, and these

are in the area of increased MRI examinations, an increase in cardiac surgeries

by 184 or 180. Then they are looking at increasing the number of cancer

surgeries that are going to be delivered. If we look at the number of diagnostic

assessments that are going to be administered over the course of the year, I

cannot stand here other than to say that these issues are as important to the

people of the Burin Peninsula as they are to all people in the Province.

I spoke to a lady today who I went to see in the hospital about a month ago.

She is there due to a cardiac condition. She has been that length of time

waiting. This Saturday past she had her assessment done. The dye test was

completed and now she is home waiting to come back into St. John's again to

see what is going to be done further. If I stand in her shoes than I can see

that she probably would say that this is an investment in something that she has

a need for.

Mr. Speaker, this government is setting out a plan for health care. The

number one issue, as identified by the Canadian Medical Association and

identified provincially, is wait times. So, where do we start? We start with

wait times. The areas related to wait times: cardiac surgery, joint replacement,

cancer surgeries, eye surgeries and diagnostic imaging. In the list that I have

just quoted, I believe, Mr. Speaker, these are among that list. So, therefore,

as a government, we have set out a plan and we are beginning with priorities,

and so where it should be. Not only that, Mr. Speaker, we are listening to the

experts, the professionals in the field who are recommending and asking us to do

this. These are not political decisions. These are decisions based on sound

evidence and expert opinion.

So, Mr. Speaker, if I look back to the Burin Peninsula - again, if I refer to

the three areas of Grand Bank, the member opposite, Marystown-Burin, my

district, and then the Bellevue district. Over the last short while I have had

meetings with people to bring people together with a common focus, and that

focus being: let's get what we need for health care on the Burin Peninsula. I

have to ask certain questions. I have to ask the Member for Grand Bank, when a

decision is made to put a third facility in an area that already is seeing $3.3

million, I believe spent on it, and we are looking at a $17 million facility,

and then just look at the geographics of the area. I have to ask her - she was

willing to support putting another facility that already has two facilities that

would be about a thirty-five minute driving distance from that facility that she

is proposing. I would also ask her what impact the building of this facility

would have on another facility that is in her district in St. Lawrence? We have

a facility that is in St. Lawrence that has beds empty. We have a wing on the

Burin Peninsula health care facility that was empty and now she was proposing to

build a third one, thirty-five minutes away from the facility that was initially

put there by a Conservative government that said -

MS FOOTE: You don't know what you are talking about.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, she was proposing to put a third facility in an

area that was thirty-five minutes driving distance from a facility that was put

there by the previous Conservative government. People on the Peninsula saw that

this particular facility was going to be the centre of health services on that

Peninsula. Not only that, the two facilities that are already present were

underutilized. I say again, one wing of the hospital that was closed down and

another area in the St. Lawrence facility were beds that were not being used.

I would ask the hon. member -

MS FOOTE: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. JACKMAN: I would ask the hon. member across the way: Where would the

Burin Peninsula health care facility be right now if that $3.3 million had been

invested in that facility, the key facility that was supposed to be the focal

point of the Peninsula? I would say to her, that it would be much further ahead

than what the members opposite keep referring to as the gazebo that is standing

in Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: There shouldn't be a gazebo (inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, I am asking the member opposite - the member

started out by saying, in her statement today, that she wants to work with me to

improve the quality of health care on the Burin Peninsula. I am going to say to

her, she knows that this government has cancelled the facility in Grand Bank and

that they are willing to turn it over to the town, that structure, for a nominal

fee.

I am asking her to forego that and let her work with me, as the Member for

Burin-Placentia West. I am certainly willing to work with her to promote the

cause of health care on the Peninsula.

Mr. Speaker, I could have gotten up here today and I could have spoken on

certain things, but intentionally I did not get up and get into the

uncharacteristic things of mentioning members' travel or the fact that there

could be political motives involved in establishing things.

MS FOOTE: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. JACKMAN: I decided not to do that kind of thing, Mr. Speaker. What I

have done, and what I continue to do, is to ask the Member for Grand Bank and to

ask the Member for Bellevue to work with me so that we can work with the groups

on the Peninsula to establish what is priority. Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, we

did not get to meet with the Burin hospital foundation. It was planned but, as

everyone knows, Minister Ottenheimer took ill and he could not get there. I have

been speaking to Mr. Tilley of the regional board, and department officials, and

we intend to travel to meet with the people on the Peninsula involved in the

fundraising arm, and so on and so forth, and we established a priority. I am

asking the Member for Grand Bank, that she work with me on that particular

issue.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, we are committed to health care in the Province

and on the Peninsula.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, I can assure the member who continues to banter

over there that we plan to operate this way: First, we plan. Secondly, we take

professional advice, and then we act on the information provided to us. These

will not be political decisions, Mr. Speaker. They will be the right decisions,

and I ask the members across the way to support me on that.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I should say that, by agreement between myself and the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse

au Clair, and with the consent of the Government House Leader, we are going to

share the time for this speaker, the fifteen minutes.

I just want a few minutes, Mr. Speaker, to record my support for the motion

put forth by the Member for Grand Bank. I think, on its face, when you read

through the motion one by one, each element of that motion, I think, is very

sensible, supportable, and ought to be supported by the people of this House,

referencing a need for improved health care services and, in particular, a CT

scanner.

We know, Mr. Speaker, that we have additional monies available in this

Province, that were made available by the First Ministers' health care accord

last September, that put additional monies in the hands of this Province, some

$33 million, $50 million over a period of a number of years, specifically

earmarked for diagnostic services in part but also to shorten wait times.

We also know, Mr. Speaker, of the considerable transportation difficulties

from the Burin Peninsula to the nearest facility in Clarenville. It is all very

well to say there is a road, Mr. Speaker, but anyone who has travelled the Burin

Peninsula road in winter knows that it is a precarious journey many times and

not something that we would want to force people to go into under emergency

conditions.

It is something that can be supported, Mr. Speaker, and the money should be

available from the new health care accord money that was specifically earmarked

for diagnostic services.

Also, Mr. Speaker - and I am trying not to be political here, because we have

had a change of government - this was a hospital that was planned by the

previous government, but it was planned, Mr. Speaker. It was done with medical

support. It was done with advice from medical professionals, and it was put

there. It may not have been finished right away, and I know that has been

referenced by members opposite, that the hospital was not completed, but there

was a reason, Mr. Speaker, and the reason was financial. That reason has changed

considerably. There has been a change of government, and first going off the new

government had a situation that they claimed they faced which was going to force

them into a $362 million cash deficit last year.

We saw, Mr. Speaker, after all was said and done, and the books were in after

the first year, what we had instead was a $103 million cash surplus. What a

change, Mr. Speaker, in one year. So, we have seen that the financial

projections that they had were way off and, in fact, money is now available to

do the work of completing the health care facility that was planned, that was on

the planning books.

We also know, Mr. Speaker, that on a go-forward basis there is considerable

money available to undertake this project. In fact, the money will be available

in part as a result of the new Atlantic Accord but also because the Province's

financial situation is much better than it was a year or two ago.

It is evident, Mr. Speaker, to anybody who reads a newspaper, that the world

price of oil is not going back to $38 a barrel, which is the projection on which

the government based its revenue projections. In fact, the most recent

projections by American government sources, American government agencies, say

that the price of oil is going to stay between $55 and $60 a barrel for the next

two years. So, we can see clearly that there is plenty of money available for

government projects of this nature, one that has already been planned, one that

has been committed to, one that has been advised by health professionals over

the last number of years.

Mr. Speaker, I hope - I have no reason to be right about this, but I hope -

that it is not political considerations that are motivating members opposite on

these matters. We did see some plans cancelled that were put in place by the

previous government, such as the cancer clinic in Grand Falls, such as the

health care facility in the Burin Peninsula, such as Alzheimer drugs, such as

other decisions of a medical nature that were made by the previous government.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. HARRIS: Yes, some of them in the lead-up to the election, there is no

question about that, but nevertheless extremely important and medically

necessary activities that should be funded by any government, whether it is a

Liberal government, whether it is a PC government, or whether it is an NDP

government.

When the plans are there, when the need is there, and now we know that the

money is there, these projects that are being asked for in this motion, the

completion of the health facility in Grand Bank and the CT scanner that is being

fundraised for, that the people of the area want to have put in place, that they

are willing to put their own effort into making it possible, that they thought

was in partnership with the government, is now no longer going to be made

available unless this government changes its mind. I urge the government to do

that, Mr. Speaker.

I want to say that we support, in the New Democratic Party, the motion

brought forth by the Member for Grand Bank, wholeheartedly, and I want to thank

the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair for sharing her time with me, to

allow me to make these few remarks on this important motion.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I want to rise today and support the motion that has been put forward by my

colleague, the Member for Grand Bank, with regard to a CT scanner for the Burin

Peninsula.

Mr. Speaker, the member has, no doubt, brought this motion forward in the

House of Assembly today because it is an issue of concern and an issue of

priority for the people on the Burin Peninsula when it comes to health care

service delivery.

Mr. Speaker, I heard a number of people today, when they got up and talked to

the motion, whether in support of it or in defence of why the funding was not

allocated in this year's Budget, and one of the speakers - and I am not sure

who it was; I think it was the Member for Bellevue - talked about how the people

on the Burin Peninsula were feeling isolated and feeling somewhat cut off from

areas of the Province simply because they had not received the funding that they

felt they needed to provide for the proper diagnostic equipment within their

area.

I do not think that it is just the people on the Burin Peninsula who feel

that way. I think there are a lot of people in rural Newfoundland and Labrador

right now who do feel that way, because they have been asking for investments in

their communities, whether it be in health care or whether it be in some other

sector. They are not receiving the kind of investment that they had looked

forward to.

I think a year ago, when government brought in a Budget that very much

focused on fiscal restraint and cutting expenditure, people accepted it to a

degree because they were understanding the fiscal position of the Province.

Well, this year it was quite different, Mr. Speaker, quite different. Most

people in the Province knew that when a budget came to the Table this year, it

was coming with more health care funding, more health care transfers from the

federal government than they had seen in previous years. It was coming, Mr.

Speaker, only days and weeks after an Atlantic Accord deal was signed that would

bring millions of dollars of new wealth into the revenues of Newfoundland and

Labrador. The expectation of the public changed and the expectation of people,

like those on the Burin Peninsula, like those on the West Coast of the Island,

on the Northern Peninsula, in Lake Melville, it does not matter, their

expectations changed because they saw the wealth of the Province increasing.

They saw the government in a fiscal position to be able to look at what their

needs and their concerns were and to have them addressed. So, I think for a lot

of people it was a disappointment.

Now, I realize that the Budget did focus on expenditures in diagnostic

equipment in some areas of the Province. The CT scanner on the Burin Peninsula

was one that was a priority and did not get funded by the government. There were

also other requests, Mr. Speaker. I know in Happy Valley-Goose Bay and other

regions of Labrador, I met with people who were asking to have kidney dialysis

equipment put in the Labrador region. I met with family members. I have talked

to them who have to have their family members right now living here in St. John's.

In my own district, right now, I have three people who had to move out of the

area to be able to get access to services of kidney dialysis. So, I know the

priority that this equipment is in different regions of the Province and the

reasons that it needs to be put there. I think that these people make a very

good case. We could all put ourselves in the position of many of these families.

We do not want to have our loved ones leave the Burin Peninsula or leave

Labrador to have to move somewhere else to access health care services. I think

that the expectation of people is that you have health care services delivered

as close to where people live as you possibly can.

Mr. Speaker, I think that was the reason why a lot in this Province, when the

Hay Group report was released on health care in Western Newfoundland, the

Northern Peninsula and Southern Labrador region, that it outraged so many people

in this Province because it was very clear that the priority in health care was

on fiscal spending and not on providing the best services to people. I said it

well over a year ago when the Member for Topsail was the Minister of Health and

Community Services at that time. She brought in the terms of reference to the

House of Assembly that would outline the process for the Hay Group report. The

member may remember, I said to her in this House, I said it outside of the

House, that the terms of reference focuses on fiscal management in health care

and not on the delivery of services to people. At the time the minister said:

No, we are not creating a two-tier health care system. It will not focus on

dollars and cents.

Mr. Speaker, the Hay Group report, although it did not come out in May, it

came out many months later - actually in March of this year I think it was. That

report indeed focused on balancing the fiscal budget within the health care

system. Any people in this Province who looked at that Hay Group report and

commented on it had the same take. In fact, do you know what it did? It only

caused people to have more concern, more worry about the delivery of health care

to their regions. We have seen rallies in St. Anthony, where over 800 people

turned out to express themselves and their discontent with the recommendations

in that report and asked the government opposite to dismiss the report, dismiss

it, do not implement those recommendations because it will be to the detriment

of health care in our regions. We did not see them dismiss that report, did we?

On the West Coast of the Island it was the same thing. If you look at all the

newspapers, in the Port aux Basques area where they recommended cutting things

like obstetrics and day surgeries, to the Stephenville area where they looked at

a complete decrease in the level of service being provided to the hospital in

that region. People were very, very upset.

Mr. Speaker, I am not going to go on to quote what a lot of these people

said, but they were leaders in our communities. They were mayors. They were

people who were involved. They were upset. I will quote one thing, and I am

actually looking for it. It was an

article that was in the GEORGIAN I

guess it was, the West Coast paper in Stephenville. It was a quote by the Member

for Port au Port. This was only a week ago. The Member for Port au Port said,

"...the past month has been a very trying one for both him and Joan Burke,

Tory legislative member for St. George's-Stephenville East. He said there are

48 members in the House of Assembly and not one of the others would like to be

in my shoes right now."

Well, I say to the Member for Port au Port, that he is in the governing party

and if there is no one else on that side of the House who wants to be in his

shoes or in the shoes of the member for Stephenville, than it is because they

have made the rules, the regulations and legislated how the funding is going to

be spent, where the services are going to be and they are the ones who created

the situation.

Mr. Speaker, he also went on to say, the Member for Port au Port also said,

"Government is considering 70 per cent of the group's

recommendations." Now there were 270 recommendations in that Hay Group

report. Very little -

MR. J. HODDER: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

On a point of order, the hon. the Member for Port au Port.

MR. J. HODDER: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I just came into the Chamber on time.

I would like to point out to the member, that was a misprint. I did not

actually say those words but they were reported. I was referring to another

report. It was an off the cuff remark at a development association meeting, but

I had never known or said that government had decided on 70 per cent of

anything. The board will decide themselves.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order.

The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will have to check the paper this week to see if they are writing a

retraction, but in the

article it did say 70 per cent of the recommendations

would be looked at and the quote of course was attributed to the member. He says

he did not say that, so I will accept that.

Anyway, Mr. Speaker, this is what he did say. He said that there was a

recommendation in the report that looked at the closure of clinics and

government immediately moved to say that we would not close these clinics.

Believe me, there was no one happier than I was when they moved to make that

announcement because they should not close clinics in this Province, in any

region of the Province, whether it is on the West Coast, on the Northern

Peninsula or in Southern Labrador. He stated that the reason government could

overrule the boards and move immediately to dismiss the recommendation of the

Hay Group to close clinics was simply because the recommendation was based only

on cost-saving measures.

However, he did go on to say that they would not be able to overrule the

board and move immediately to dismiss recommendations with regard to closing

operating services and obstetric services at Sir Thomas Roddick Hospital

because, he says, that was a quality of care issue. Well, Mr. Speaker, in my

view the government has the authority to move to strike any recommendations that

are in this report. They have the authority to say to the board, of the 270

recommendations that are here, we are not prepared to entertain the cutting of

services in Sir Thomas Roddick Hospital or in the hospital in Port aux Basques,

but, Mr. Speaker, that did not happen.

Anyway, I am going to conclude my comments because I did agree to share my

time with the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi today. I am sure I will have

lots of opportunity in the Budget to raise these issues.

In conclusion, I just want to say that I support the people on the Burin

Peninsula and I support the member who has brought forward this motion today to

have a CT scanner put in that region. I hope that the government will take this

request seriously and use some of their newfound wealth to put these kinds of

diagnostic equipment in areas and communities that require it.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

If the hon. member speaks now, she will close the debate.

MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

First, I want to thank my colleagues who have spoken in favour of the motion.

I appreciate that, and I certainly want to thank the Leader of the NDP, the

Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi, for his support as well.

I think there is a recognition, at least among some people, that this is a

serious issue, one that, unfortunately, does not seem to be taken seriously by

the government of the day. As I listened to my colleague from Burin-Placentia

West, who I do have a lot of respect for and I know he means well, but clearly

he does not have all the facts, he does not have all the information, and,

unfortunately, when he speaks what he says is not right. I would encourage him,

in fact, to get to know the issue a bit better and maybe to deal with it in a

more knowledgeable fashion, because he has missed the point entirely. I mean,

nobody is criticizing the government for the money that it has spent and wisely

on diagnostic medical equipment around the Province. It was badly needed and I

commend them for doing it, but just as I commend them for doing that, I really

have difficulty with the fact that they did not see or attach the same

importance to putting a CT Scanner on the Burin Peninsula.

The Member for Burin-Placentia West mentions, again, funding and the

disastrous financial position that the government was left in, and the story is

getting a little tired. People are tired of hearing it, because we know the

measures they took last year to try and deal with what they considered to be a

serious financial situation had to be done, some components of it but not

everything. This year it is a different story. The $103 million being spent to

pay off The Rooms and mortgage on a building that hasn't even been opened yet,

and to, in fact, pay off mortgages, loans, that the Education Investment

Corporation incurred over the years, over many, many years, does not make sense

when you have a crying need for diagnostic medical equipment in a place like

Burin.

Yes, I agree with the Member for Burin-Placentia West, the health care centre

in Burin is the main health care facility on the Burin Peninsula. That is why I

continue to support it. That is why my colleague, the Member for Bellevue,

continues to support it. It is the main health care facility. That is why, when

we were the government, we made sure there was a mammography unit put there, a

radiography unit, a bone density machine, and I could go on and on. That is why

we committed to a CT Scan for the Burin Peninsula and that it should be placed

at the Burin health care centre.

When he talks about a third health care facility being built in Grand Bank,

this is where I take exception to his remarks. It is not a new facility in the

sense that it is putting in place something that does not presently exist. What

we are talking about here is a replacement facility. In fact, a replacement

facility with fewer beds than presently exist. He talked about the beds in St.

Lawrence. I am as concerned about the beds in St. Lawrence as I am about a new

facility for Grand Bank, which is why a part of the initiative was that we would

see a reduction of beds at the health care facility in Grand Bank. It would go

from sixty-some-odd down to forty with the twenty in St. Lawrence opening. It

was all part and parcel of the plan. The Member for Burin-Placentia West really

needs to get educated on what took place, what the situation is, and how we

should be dealing with it, and then he should be supportive.

When he stands and asks me to work with him, my fear is that what he is

asking me to do is join him in assuring that the Burin Peninsula loses its very

identity; that, in fact, what he is asking me to do is support the government in

its plan to have the people on the Burin Peninsula actually travel to

Clarenville for a CT Scan. I will never do that. That is not fair to the people

on the Burin Peninsula. It is not advocating good health care, quality health

care, for the people who live on the Burin Peninsula. If that is what he means

by working with him, I am sorry, I cannot do that. Instead, I would ask you to

work with me, fight with me, speak up for our constituents on the Burin

Peninsula, and ensure that we get a CT Scan at the Burin health care centre.

He knows, as well as I know, that it is important. I am sure he has had

constituents tell him they do not want to have to travel to Clarenville. If he

continues to go on in the vein that he is, and say the things that he is saying,

and support the government in the position they are espousing, then on the Burin

Peninsula we are going to see a further reduction in health care services and an

increase in services in Clarenville.

I have no problems with Clarenville, the people of Clarenville and the

facility in Clarenville, but I think we represent the people on the Burin

Peninsula, and it is for those people we need to speak up and make the case.

I have to say that I would encourage him to, in fact, speak up, like a member

of the PC District Association for Grand Bank has done. Jack Cumben - and I

applaud him - has gone on record as saying, "After a reasonable period of

time, if I do not get a response to my satisfaction..." - and he means that

we see the new health care facility in Grand Bank continue - "...I will

announce publicly my resignation as president of the Grand Bank District PC

Association...".

Now, here is a gentleman who campaigned ardently for the PC government, who

supported the Premier, who believed the Premier when he said that he would

complete the health care facility in Grand Bank. Mr. Cumben believed

wholeheartedly that the Premier would do that, and now he is saying he has

doubts.

He has written to a number of Cabinet ministers, looking to them for a

positive response, looking to them to pull together and support the people on

the Burin Peninsula, but especially he wants the Premier to keep his commitment

and build that replacement facility in Grand Bank.

In fact, in the story it says, "Mr. Cumben used the stand taken by

Premier Williams in pressuring Prime Minister Paul Martin to live up to his

commitments made during the federal election concerning the Atlantic Accord to

make his point to the Premier."

He said, "I told Premier Williams if it was wrong for the Prime Minister

to break his promise, it was equally wrong for him..." - the Premier -

"... to break a promise made to the voters of the Grand Bank District

during the last provincial election."

I quote Mr. Cumben. He says, "You were quick to tell the Prime Minister

he was backtracking; he was not keeping his word. Now you are doing the same

thing." That is from the President of the PC Association in the District of

Grand Bank.

So I ask you, as a government, to take this motion seriously, just as when we

were the government and a member of your party put forward a private member's

motion and we supported him. As a government, we supported him because it was

the right thing to do.

I am asking this government now to do the same thing, to look at the surplus

you had, and instead of paying down on The Rooms in St. John's - and you are

talking $43 million - instead of paying off the Education Investment

Corporation, another $50 million, I am asking you to take some of that money,

put the CT scanner on the Burin Peninsula, at the Burin health care centre, put

some money toward completing the health care facility in Grand Bank. We will

understand - it was supposed to open this coming April, a year from now, but we

will understand if it is going to take an extra two or three years.

The Member for Burin-Placentia West says the government has offered the

facility or the steel structure to the community. Well, to my knowledge - again

I ask him, he should check his facts before speaking - the town has asked,

because they do not want it torn down, which is what the government wanted to

do, they have asked to take ownership rather than having it torn down, but they

have had no response to the request. The Member for Burin-Placentia West really

does need to know what he is talking about when he stands on his feet, because

unfortunately it is misleading to get up and suggest something other than what

is the truth.

The approach that we are seeing in rural Newfoundland and Labrador,

especially on the Burin Peninsula, is resulting in yet another nail being put in

the coffin of the people of the Burin Peninsula. We are losing our identity.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

MS FOOTE: The school board is gone, the health care board is gone, but

today I am asking the government to recognize the importance of this issue to

the people of the Burin Peninsula and support this motion.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Is the House ready for the question on the resolution put forward by the

Member for Grand Bank?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Nay.

AN HON. MEMBER: Division.

MR. SPEAKER: Division has been called.

Division

MR. SPEAKER: Are the Whips ready?

AN HON. MEMBER: Yes.

MR. SPEAKER: The Whips are ready.

Those in favour of the motion, please rise.

CLERK: Mr. Grimes; Mr. Parsons; Mr. Butler; Mr. Barrett; Mr. Langdon; Ms

Jones; Ms Thistle; Mr. Reid; Mr. Andersen; Mr. Sweeney; Ms Foote; Mr. Joyce; Mr.

Harris; Mr. Collins.

MR. SPEAKER: Those against the motion, please rise.

CLERK: Mr. Rideout; Mr. Tom Marshall; Mr. Hedderson; Mr. Jack Byrne; Mr.

Fitzgerald; Ms Sheila Osborne; Mr. O'Brien; Ms Burke; Ms Whalen; Mr. Wiseman;

Mr. Denine; Mr. French; Mr. Harding; Mr. Young; Mr. Hunter; Mr. Jackman; Mr.

Hodder; Ms Goudie; Mr. Skinner; Mr. Oram; Ms Elizabeth Marshall; Mr. Ridgley.

Mr. Speaker, fourteen ayes and twenty-two nays.

MR. SPEAKER: I declare the motion lost.

The hon. the Acting Government House Leader.

MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I move that the House on its rising do adjourn until tomorrow at

1:30 p.m.

MR. HARRIS: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: A point of order has been raised by the Member for Signal

Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I wonder if my learned friend opposite can advise whether or not the letter

that the Government House Leader undertook to provide to the House for the close

of business has been made available and is available to the House?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Acting Government House Leader.

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, I am not aware, so I cannot advise the member.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

This being Wednesday and in accordance with Standing Order 9 the Speaker

adjourns the House without the question being put.

This House now stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, at 1:30 of the

clock in the afternoon.