mTEDI':'ED ?OR TE!::: PERIOD: 8:00 D.~. - 11:00 n . rn . ~HURSDAY, A~2.IL 21, 1~77

April :U ,1?77 Tape 1783 113-1 The Eo use resumed at 8: 01) P. ~:. '·1r. Soeaker in the ~':hair. '~P. .. SPEt\J(E~. : :8.. T.TQODFD~ ·J : Order nleas~! Ron. ~ember fnr ?ay of Islands. ~r. Speaker, I ended up before we bro~e for dinner hy ta1.king about, primarily about the municinal nroj ects in mv district. I am certainlv pleased that so much in this field "Iotas heen done, but · Hr.,ilst there remains - and there also remains a lot more to be done but I feel that eve cannot do it all in one year.

It takes time. so all r.;e can do is \·.een on \•JOrking conscientiously and we hope that at the end of the oresent ter.n the peoTJle 'I:•Till feel that by puttinz their trust in us t~_ev ~-;ere not led dmm the garden path. Hr. Speaker, speaking ahout roads in mv area, I am very happv to say that the main highvray from Lark Farl:lour out to Cox's Cove <:·rhich of conrse ryasses through both the '-lumber East - rather t1,_e Humber Hest, f!umher East and the Fumher Vallev District, this road is completelv oaved. I am certainly proud of t~at. I can drive throu?-h the district on a paved road. However, :·Ir.

Speaker, a lot remains to be done on local roads, not only in the Bav of Islands District but in many of the districts throughout the Province as of course is evident not only by petitions from myself, I have presented t-.:vo or three maybe in the Fouse this year on the local roads and in the Ray of Islands District, but others have presentee petitions on local roads as well. :-!mv, I feel that the councils in the various areas cannot do a 1vorth-r-1hile .iob on the 60-40 oercenta~e. The present time the "'rovince 1Javs nO ner cent c:-1 the local roads, t~e local co~_ittee. or the local council n~ys 40 ner ce~t.

I feel that this should be - I thought I heard somehodv sav t~e word 'i ack it uo' - I <vas going to say I thin k it should !,e increased to something like 75 ner cent from the Province and 25 ner cent from th? local council.

Aoril 21,1977 TAne 1783 The 'finister of Finance Hill be very delighted ~·:i t h that . :!R. \·!OODROH: Yes . I was reallv brin2in~ it, hon . Leader of the Opposition, to the minister of ?·!unicipal .'\ff airs and :-lousing '1ut - :·ffi. :\OBERTS : I am sure he tn11 <:·J ill be ?leased . I ·.;ou ld suggest the member is on a long ran~e ~rogram. 'ffi .

POODRO\,j: P.owever, in any case I feel t~at if t.Je \.Jane. to de a t.;orth-t.;rhile job for the peonle, I feel tha t the dav r.·till come ~vhen ~·Je ,.;ill end uo doi:tg it : his •.;ray. l'nless •.-Jr; follor..; the reconmer .da tions :nade ::,v the hon . r!lemher for La?o .ile an the revie..., chat he did this Summer ahout c.~e councils, if r..;e :ollovT some of ~is recot!lmenda:io'!1s maybe ~.,e ··:'ould no t have to - '-!R • :TEARY: ~!R . 1~00DR0~7 : They t·TOuld not be all resigning .

I do not knot-7 >:-thet;er any of vour reconnnendations have been Sollm.;red or not but I read it, hon . member, and sol"e of cheF- have ~een ve~J ~ood I nus t sav. ~R . N::ARY: -C: ~.,as fallen on deaf ears . TheY paid several h•.•ndr ed thousand dollard on the ~!ha ler! C:onunission. ~1R. ~700DR.Oi~: ~lot-1, }J,r. Speaker, a tooic that is of the utmost imoortance in our Prov i nce today, and a tooic that is occunying the lios and the minds of manv oeoryle, is the tooic of unemnlo~enc. !-l o~·' , I saw tonigh t . maybe as others members did, a documem :ary on the unemployment situation in Bay d'~spoir .

I incidentallv made many trips un to Bay d'Espoir .

':'ape 1784 : IR. ~ · ~00DRO~l: I r..ade r.1anv trir::s t!::ere in '..rhat I refer to as rc1.avbe tl:e ole? davs when we had no other ~eans of travellin~ excent ~y boat. 1\n:::l I .::1oted toni:-rh t on t~e c.oc~uctentarv SOI'"'e verv c· c.lne rerr.arks Dade bv !1-1'.,.... . .:..L.. Gordon Perr'.', • .. 'ho teac~ina ~anv years U? there. ::e is nrobal:Jl v Fe 11 kno~-m to the :Iinister of Education - very fine, thouqht out, reasonable re.r.arks anc~ of course. the rer,arks , .. .s= . -nv rnv crooc ~rlcna and maybe I should say ~y fermer colle3aue , ~everen~ Father Grace ..

He also was verv honest atout it. felt that Peonle have to go ~ack to the fisherv and t~ev have to go back to the old methods. I )lelieve '!r. I?errv said they have to gc back to the old nethods, ao in the ,;o0ds with a horse and cut the ';·rood and so on liJ.:e that. And incidentally,the sa1.·rr'"till r1anaqer u:- there, '~r. Strickland, '"'Ointed out the fact that there is lots o"': \·,'ooc: to be cut. l\..:::C:.

I was also pleased ,,.;i t}1 "1 ~' lton. ~riend c:md collea';ue. t~1e .:Hnister of Rural and Industrial ~evelonDent,who ;·Ja_s in on the documentary and ':las very understanding - ~lR. ~TEARY· I thought the minister was out ~ating lobster tonight. ! 1 ell I rH:~an tl:e c!.ocu;::~_entary ua.s taken, t~:i s i·ras dqne a f e•t! ;,Jeeks aqo - it \·Tas done a counle of ~avs ago.

In any case,he offered them, with a very understandincr an6 compassionate wa~any assistance that could be given. ~"\nd inciden tall:::'; t:-:e fact ' .. ?as };rm .. ls(-:t ho:':'e~ '.>'::--.ich . ~ . ls a. :::.:lc::~ .. the ~eo~le in the rural ~rcas o~ the nrovince . I t.::iD.l-: it is .. ..... ...

2 nice to know that we have a minister so understandin? as ti"le :Hnister of ?:..1ral and InC.ustrial Develc!l!'1ent. reallv rea~v to helo. ~~ear. • I near. Ee has heloed ne over the past year or so. ':'he more I get to knovi him the nore do I an}'recia te ~in. I know how ~ard a worker he is and I think it is ~ari sinceritv and understanding ', ..... . -c:1a ~_. lS to cor..quer. Ti.. ROEE?-.'I'S: A ready ear for a recuest from the senber for Bay of Islands. "P. - L ........ • :'7hat did you say? I a.r:1. sorry. ~,1R. ROBERTS: You hold your m-m. ~T?~. ~·700DR0:·7: ~-Jo':l, ~Ir.

Speaker, I an, hm,iever - rat:1er I should say that ny district is ouite different fron district of Bay d 1 Es~oir, of ~ermitaqe-Eay d'Esnoir. ~e have, for example, in the district even at the rresent ti2e, there are six herring plants. The herring struck in - I thin}: that is an old lTe~:,·.rfoundland sa:,inq. Good exoression. ~1P.. ~700DROH: Good expression - struck in around a week or so ago. And the six herring plants, one in Cox's Cove '~>.rhich TtJe resurrected Hi th the helD of the hen. :Unister of Fisheries - I a.r:-r. sorry he is not in his seat nm·r - last Fall. ~lR. ROBERTS : Ee ~·rill be back.

Z\nd three in Cur ling; one in :?enoi t' s Cove ~1R. :TEI:.RY: 1\ll O\med by Don Picco. ::o, no. no. .:'\nd one ln .Sar}: ~=arbour. T tr .. i.n~~ I 2entioned. in a s~eech last year, :~r.. :.:re.3k:er, t~~e various owners of the herrinq nlants. :row t~es2 nlants are doing verv good. Thev are owned, I would say, two bv Dunnhv's 1 ·' _1

April 21, 10.77. ':'at"\e 178~ one by T . ana i-i . ?isheries: h!O verv - '!'3.•Tlor and ::ac! :ett- b-10 very fine gent leDen f r-on the ~onne Ray and :=alb.:-a ~' ~oint area . Of course then : ;atior:al . Sea runs t::e 0la!1t 0'..! t i:-t ~a~~·: r::ar!)our. So this rlant is giving cu i te a lot of em?loyment, not only: ~ !r . Snea.Y:er, to the na le seJ: bu t realh ' ~' • 0 ~...ney are g ~v~ng a lot of employnent to t~e =e~ales in the area . And . 1 .. -·

APril 21, 1977 Tape 1735 (Night) J."·[ - 1 ~ffi.. HOODROH: after the herring fishery is completed in the fall of the year,they get their unemployment insurance and it really leaves a lot of money in the various communities. And also perhaps I could say here that I am very proud to say, proud of the fact that the han. :1r. Rooney last ~.,reek opposed a hill in Ottawa '"'hereby the Federal Government cvere asking to have unemployment insurance extended to t'".velve weeks from eight "lveeks. I do not think that this is very practical for the Province of Ne~·lfoundland. Hr.

Speaker, I also ~-<ant to continue on ab aut the methods of employment in the district of the Bay of Islands~ and I am very proud to say,ancl with the co~operation, the hard ~vork and the help of my han. friend in Otta\va, the han. Jack :!arshall - he is)I would say 1 one of the hardest \·JOrkers, one of the hardest working politicans I cvould say, I ~-1ould venture to say, any,.,rhere in Canada - smm RON. l>lEUBERS: Hear, hear~ HR. \.JOODR.OW: -because he gives himself wholeheartedly,day and night - :·ffi.. ROBERTS : Hear, hear! l·ffi.. \.JOODROTIJ: -to his district and r.ve work very closely together.

I really feel that by working with the Federal member '"'e can certainly accomplish many things for our district. So therefore in the Lark Harbour area only- I do not kno,.;r how many of you gentlemen are acquainted Hith the Lark Harbour area~ but it is a rather large area - we have tivO LIP projects going. one in Little Port in the amount of $75,000 1 One in Bottle Cove in the amount of $72,000. A Hharf is being built in Little Port and a breakc.;ater in Bottle Cove,and 1·7e have also in Lark ft.:trbour proper a breab.;ater costing $40,000.

Ue are doing extension and repairs to the -.1harf, that is t!:l.e main 1-1harf in Lark Harbour, r;1bich is now extensively used in the lobster fishery and also for the herring

April 21, 19 77 Tape 1785 (~ighc) ~1 - 2 "ffi . i.·IOODRmJ: fishery, we are do i ng wor k to the tune of somet·lhere around $230,000 . And chat really certainly is great for this community. In fact,remembe r I started off tvith the \vater and setverage in Cox's Cove,and I slipped over for t he euployment and t he like over on the opposite side of the bay. In the community of York Harbo ur there is a project in the amount of $23,000. \'Je have a terrific council in York Harbour .

They are tvorking toge .ther and ;.;ith the $23,000 c::ey are putting a ba sement under their hall under the community hall. -.;hich tvas cons true ted some tt·lO or three yeurs ago and the council are ~.;orv..i.ng together out there . T':ley are very co-operative so I certa inly feel very proud of that. No~.; :·taunt Moria.~ - I an passing over the rurul distric ts of Halfw ay Point, Senoits Cove, John 1 s ~each and Frenchman's Cove because there <:vas noc any council. It Has run by a cotnC1ission for the past year and they did not apply for a LIP grant but they have a very nice community hall out ~~ere.

Uaf ortunately it is unfinished,and I hope that when the new council ge ts under t-1ay notv that they •vil l perhaps get on to finishing chis ner..; hall. Also in the community of ~1ount Horiah ~.; e have tHo LIP pro jects, a community hal l extensi on or t·lha tever you t•Iant - renovations a nd also a rink, a -··

Anril 21: 1977. Taoe 1736 RE - 1 small outdoor rink. prohably nembers will be very proud to knot-J, the marina had finally start~& in Allan's Cove. There has been a LIP grant in t:1e amount Of $65,000 ?Ut into this rroject. It is going to be a rather expensive project. I hope that r.-rhen tirnes get better, maybe,we hoDe,olease God,in the next cou?le of years or so that there will be more fe~eral ~onev comin0 for it and more provincial noney as well. Eear, hear: Is that for nleasure crait: or 1.v-hat? ~1R. ~'IOODROvl: It is for nleasure craft mostly, l believe. I· ~r.

Sneaker, my goodness the time is going so fast~ On the ~orth Shore of the Bay of Islands~Irishtown has aLIP ~reject of $24,000 to continue a water sun?ly. SuDmersi..:le nas a new church built, $30,000 or nore ~ 1R. :rCARY~ :1ov there y ou go bo y . Nm ·r is v our c:1c. nc~. ~ · lR. \!OODRO\·! : - a new church. I'-1eadows l-las a Canada r,!orks grant 'dhich they are hoping to incorporate into a 1·rater systen for $30,000. Gillams, .s:o, 000 '.<T~icl1 they are usin c; to continue their water sun~l y . And believe it or not, Cox's Cove, $70,000 to help comnlete their arena. :'·1R. DI:m: Sure that is my budget,right?

As I say, you know, it has reallv - ~lR. DOODY: That is more money than I got in the budget. ~ !R. :mODRO~ T: I do not ~~no't·.? ".·rhere it all cor.es f ror::.. : ~ r. ':'1-:at is Bore money than I got in the budget~ :::2.. ~ ~OODRO: i : Yes, I say. In an~r case, I tllin.J .: _. -") ··'-'

')1 --- ,· 1977 . ~ape l7St ,.., ';:.T ~ '-.i...l. c:r-edi t uhere crcdi t ls due to ::r,y <JOOcl olcl :-\ars.hall. Jack_, bv th2 '.-Iav, as you }:nm;, he is in Opposition UD ln. 0 ttar:·ra, but he ,.;or!:s alonr:; and ::e certainly does a lo-'-1.. of a_ ood ;1o+- onl-, -=or rn '· .._ · .._ • - .): c. .·.y G.lSi..rlC~.- 01: Bay of Islands but for all the othe:r- districts, for yours as \vell. J.ight. Verv nice, verv ~lad to ~ear that indee& , e~. SO~ ~E I-:O:T. : r.E!-I:SE?..S ~ : I:R. ~·lOODROP: ~-IoH, :1r. Speaker, tine is acing too fast. I have until half ?ast eight. I ~'rant to sav a vlord : :1r.

Sneak.er, I told the hon. ;nember from Trinity-Bay de Verde('1r. Rm·re) that t~ere are a couple of items that I agree with him on. And he probably does not know what it is or nrobablv he can auess 1·1hat it is. But I aEt in Derfect acrreenent ':Tith the T'[Ce!":'1.ber for Trinity-Bav de Verde C1r. ~owe) that school taxes should be abolished. ~LEL DOODY: :m. NEARY: ><n r !.!\.. ~TOODRO:·J ~ Eear,hear! Yes. I thinl: all ta:-:es should be al:olished. I think tl'le mer,ber should be abolished.

We net about, roughly S?eaking, $6 nillion a year, that is on school tax. 1Jovr I feel this should come from the general revenue of the Province. • f.,., .. J..!.\.. ROEERTS: J.ight on . : lR. r'/OODRO"P · I do not know if it should be abolished ir:-:r,edia telv or not. 2ut the adninistration should C}i~ie serious consideration to t~is imnortant ~atter - Look at the ten ~oints, look. ~he creneral ~evenue of the Province should not be aholished ir:rmedia. tel v. ~ -·- ' ·_;

A~ril 21, 1977 . ':'a!?e 1736 ~ ~ ! - 3 · !R . · ·iOOD~0~·~: - ~·:hie~ is a ::ards~i p on all .:iftv - one distric ~s in t~e ?rovi~ce . SO!~E I:O:!. . !E ~ 1BERS: Eear, he ar~ A g ~~at LiberP- 1 ~remise. It was done very un~airlv w ~en it was placed on ?ro ~erty in Corner arook . In ~act,I ~ave a bill he re now from a ooor individual ove r i n Irishtown, I }· elie v c .. - ; L.~ • uVODY ~ You :-:~a v intro c;-;.lcc i ~ :w lea·1c: . ?lR . :JEARY: Another ~ay to r~ i ~e mnnP.v! :-m. :·iOODRO~·:: - Eox 17 , Site 13, ~ . ~. 2. It is :or tl~e anoun t of $125 . 66 . It is a ~a rcshi~ :or t~e ?eonle to 9ay those bi lls.

And I hope I ~·.rill see t21e da y that it wil l be abolis~ed in every dist rict throug~out t::e n . _ rcvJ.~ce. ~ !R. ROBERTS: ;-:ear , hea r : ' . #. .; •• -

April 21.19 77 TApe 1787 (Nig~-,t). J~·1 - 1 ~-ffi.. \IOODROU: In any case, >fr. Speaker, I also feel that a member of the House of Assembly, any member of the House of A ssembly~ nou this Has voiced last year o.gain by my hon. friend from ':'rinity- Bay de Verde - HR. DOODY: Another coaliti,on~ ~IR. ROBERTS: It is a high-powered one. :·fR. ~.JOODROH: I think, ~1r.

Speaker, if a member is cC?nscientious he is going to give himself ~.Jholeheartedly and sincerely to his constituents and there are three things '.1e has to do: Number one? he has to ~.;ork for his district and this takes up a lot of his time; number tvo)he has to '"'ark in the ' House of Assemblyiand number three he has to ~;.;rork for his party. :-m.. ~IEARY: And number four~he has to be an expert at mud flinging. NR. DOODY: Listen to the voice of authority. NR. \WODROH: A member then,no matter Hhat his profession - ~1!'\..

NEARY: I do not v1ant the han. member following in my foots ·teps. \fuat about the ~ount Pearl Park? ~!R. ~.JOODROW: Hr. Speaker, a member then,no matter what his profession,vmuld have to take a leave of absence from it after being elected to the House of Assembly. I am not saying that lawyers and doctors and the like should not be given the right to give themselves to the public life of the Province,not by any means, but I think if ~;.;re are going to be a devoted member I think we should be ready to our all - all or nothing at all- ~fR. ROBERTS: Agreed.

Right. :·fR. \WODRmv: -because the people ~ ·Iho sent us here they depend upon us - I',ig h t! l:R.. ~TOODROT·J: And we in fact should not be fooling the people 1 because if '.Je fool them in fact once ~·le ~·Jill never get a chance to fool them tHice. ::[R. ROBERTS : Right., and the han. gentle!!lan vlill find that out in due course. .· .·· ...

April 21, 1977 Tape 1787 (Night). .D1 - 2 'JR. TiJOODROH: I do not know whether that is a good remark or not. HR. ROBERTS: The hon .. gentleman should puzzle on that. ~fR. SPEJI~l(ER: Order please~ ~fR. ~WODRO\.J: Are you insinua ting 1 ?-Ir. Leader of the Opposition., that I am not doing my best for the district of Bay of Islands? :'vffi.. ROBERTS: ~o, I am not saying that. ~IR. HOODRO\.J: It is hard to understand you at times but I think you are still a good scout. HR. DOODY: Let us hope he does not join the Girl Guides. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! ~·ffi. '.J'OODROVJ: Now, l:-1r.

Speaker, this brings up a point Hhich I think is important and that is~how long should the House of Assembly be open? ~lR. NElill.Y: Hear, hear~ A.N HON. i:·fEHB ER: All summer. AN HON. m::HBER: Keep her open all year. :1-fR. 1-JOODROH: 1-l'ell let me tell you now my feeling on it. The House of Assembly belongs to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador - SOME HON. ~1EHBERS : Hear, hear! ~1R.. iJOODRQT..l: And it is a place to discuss the business of the nationc the business of the Province.

Now since a member has ' a full-ti.TD.e job to do~I suggest the House should be open - ~To~J do not anybody sort of you know make any say real big boos until really '"e explain ':vhat it is all about. I think it should be open at least seven months a year. SOi-1E HON. :1El1BERS: :-lear, hear! tiut uith a stipulation that it meet at least five days a week - ~1R. ROBERTS : Hake it six days a week nm-r. :rrL ~.JOODRO\~ : Hell I mean noH I have to express ;ny vie~·lS. Three . .,. I -~

,\rril Zl, 1977 Tape 17 87 Olight) J~! - 3 :·!R. i WODRO~·! : hours a day but with a week off each nonth - ~·!R . ROBERTS: Right . '·ffi . \JOODRQ\.,i; - to give member s ti;ne to visit their dis trict or work in their office . . A .. 'I HON . HE~·!BER : A thirty hour week - :•.ffi.. ~.JOODROH: 1.vell no~.r ~ the people Hho sent us he re - !1R. ~ARY: The only thing I can thi~k of bet ter than bat is ot,rning you r own grave. :~ . DOODY: t·!hy do you no t scart that? You have tried everychir' .1; else .

HR . ~IOOD ROt-!: ,Tot.r t:"te people vho sent us he r e have placed t:leir confidence in us ,and I t hink to be fair to t~e.'"l the House should remain open longer so t.re could do the wor k tha t c~ey sent us here for. And sooething else, this t.rould avoicl-menbe rs, they get s o tired sometimes and fed up doi~ the sane job - I had so nany listening to me but there are t~~es whe n people t hey gee so tired and everything else that the y have to leave and ~o out in t~e common room,o r in fact in many cases maybe not come here at all.

So if ~1e would reall y use wha t I feel would be:a t least I think.common sense, I thi~k, that tre could usa common sense in :nany t.rays . It :.tay mean for exanple changing t':le rules some~vhat . Bu t I think if we tvould act tvit~ common sense ancl reason I belie ve that tve could keep the House open seven mon ths a year and do a lot bette r for our people . ~'!r . Speaker, ·. ,• ' 1

;\pril 2l, 1077 "'A-pe 1788 LB-1. SO~(E !-fmr. ~- fE~BER~: Rv leave, for five minutes. Pery g-oor. ':"es, all right. MT>. :YKA uy: fir,to l~t him carrv on . hy leave . .Al-1 • HON • t-1"C:'-1BER: I agree witr ~h~~. Five minutes. ct-::-T'_tinne for five l"'inutes. up. '·7(1r)nPOF: 'Pho r-nt that 1 :il"'i t em? the clenturists. Tt js .gJl so re<'!.11 y a very important tonic in the ~rovince tocl~y. of mv O'(.m, thank Goc'l ~I [,ave been ~n pub] ic · l He . I have r.7 or.1rec ~-~ith people for years. I knoF -~ ust -v:rhClt they h.gve anc1 I knoP Hha t thejr resources are.

T th:inlr pri~arilv of the health care of our ryeonle. Nowthis is terribly il"'portant. ~e have to think of tl:e health of every in.d:b:id.ual of our nrovince. rre also have to think of the ri.!?ht of everv orP.:an.jzat:ion. Fe aJso have to thinJ<: 1 ~,rhen talJ.-in!! acout the cent:i.StS '\T2rS11S the CE't1tUrJStS~ the cost to the inciivjc1uaJ. "'or excunp1 e, T ha,_.P. <' IJiJ 1 here some- Hhere around which ~;-ras given !"e recentlv jt!st for nne tooth, It wRs not a tootr,ycu k:n<"~··, H: vrps not for exaJT1pJ.e to get P golrl tooth, or to p.et 3'(.re say3 a false tooth, but ff.t ems tn ~eta tooth attached.

It FCl.s done in a very professionaJ. Pav anc that cost $20. "'!:) • \-!n()npm.r: '-To; no not P. p~2.te no,no jnst one tooth. Tl1is •.vas r:!on~=> in St. John's. Incj~entalJy,nov it is ~]so a~??inp, ~: ~ ... .. .... _

_April 21. 1 <: 77 Tape 1788 L"f'.-2. ""P_F()()f'POP: . "!:t :i.s .?.1so <'l!"a:dn~ r.·hv there js a clifference in cental '"'1':1r1.r in St. John 1 s ancl jn Cort'.er P,rook. I" fa ctt tl,e exnensPs !cere- the ~· 7 ork ~ere is !'luch h ip:her than i.n ~orner Brook. i'(R. DOODY: 'n.:>.h'l!0DF.()F: I 'l;eJI vour Nl.rdon, the prices. the cost, ~'fR. DOODY: rhecoer to ~o to rorner Brook. Cheaper .. yes. It ;.Yould not be creaper fer yon to go hecanse you ~mule'. have to nay vour ,,Tav nnt. SOHE RON. "fEM~FP.: but I think t-Te have to think · of the cosr ~that is very i!"nortant to our people.

And I ~.JC1uld certainly ?O on tC'I say that if the d.entqrists are p.-oing to he allo~.red to practice in the Province thev shoulc 't-oe qualifierl, that is i~portant. I think they should be qualified .:md T someboH believe that: there is a lot of Fork novr.a lot of ,.mrv being: cone I suppose it :i.s iJ1e ,!!ally. I kil(W a lot of vmrk tl.?S been done in t1~e rorner Erook ;md Deer La'.<:.e, ~on:·e Bay area by denturists. I hope that reasnn ~ill be used bv everv .· !!'ember in the. Pouse of Assembly i"' this comes tn a vote, to lep-alize t:Ce denturists.,'-~r. Speake .r. ~Tm.v, ~·'r.

Speaker, in fact I am a.lso concernec'-5n fact this has sorn.e, it ,.roulc have sol"'le hearinp.- on the hon. 11er:,er for St. George 1 s - T am concernecl about thP. une!!lplo:.>'1!1en t s 1. tua tj on in the ~ay St. George ~rea.~~d not so lon~ ag0 the Hon. ron . . YaT"ieson anncuncecl t"la!" taxatio!' clata. centre for St. John's. I uon. non. J~mieson has in Ottawa that he ~icl not put this over in Steohenville. '!:tis a big inclustry . \·n-,y not n11t jt in "P. DOODY: l.Ve evant more rnonP.v nn tl,_is si.\<e. Tl,_at is a very sensih1e coi'1T"ePt. nf coursr:' . it is.

.z:..Dril 21 1 1977. ~are 171'.9 RE - 1 :~R. ;·'OODRO~!: I uould liJ:e to say also, ~·ir. S~eaJ.:er, t~a t s?ea~ing of the schools in ~y area there are no really serious coD0laints. Really a lot of nonev has been s ? ent on schools all over t~e years and es~eciallv in the ?ast five or six years. Also i~ the field of recreation, we ~ave a very beautiful nark in Lar~ I:arhour. And believe it or not, I do not kno~·7 ~vhether the ~~inister of ':'ourisn ~:::mi s it or not , but C.o vou realize that Stac:r La}:e is-in t:::e ~ T ~""'I'Q~T?C. - ~ ..!.....: .''!. .iJJ...-.!.\,1 _, .

Eav of Islands district. ~ear _. hear: :m.. 'i700DRO\ ·J ~ So I want to thank anvbod v who had a - - hand in tl1at. rind also the sta.diu..r.:1. ir: Cox's Cove , - :,m. ROBERTS : And also in r.av of Islands district. : !:<.. l"?OODRm·7: Bav of Islands district. I do not ].:nm·J ~ ~ether the hen. Leader of the Onnosition is serious or ::1ot nm·I. : · ~R. ROBERTS : I cun beina nerfectly serious.

Nell in any case we are very ha nny over t :::at - !-1R.:rEARY: i:.iow about rhe drive-in theatre y ou t al}--:e d about over there? :m . \TO!JDRO\i : ~:c 11 He ca:-1 co:rn,e to that also . ~h..at is --- ~ -- --· -- t~1ere also and it is in r.1.:l c,istrict bv the \·iay. I 3.!1 clelighted that . .._ lL- is over there . is e'Tioloy ir.q :if teen neonle. :~ 11 t he n ex t ti~e vo u ar c ove r vou should nip over there.

I thin}: it i s o-ren no1·.' in 3~t it is ret~rnin q ~one v to t~e Pro v ince. :J: course t>.e ner can i ta. ~r~~t to recr2ation to ev er y part o~ ~ v d istrict . ~is:: e r i!".:;s assist.Gtnc:e t o Co: .: ' s C O"'TG; ~..._a!"ir:.G

A~ril 21, 1?77. ~arre 2 ah ~ !:?. • :·!'JODR':X.': I cu:; very gald to J-:nm-.1 t:::.at evcr~rt~1incr is gain~ good over ther2. Of course, above all else~the harbour development studv in Corner 3rook is qoing to cl1anc:e t~1e 3ay of Islands district altogeti1er ,.-hen it is ccm9leted. ~~r. Speal:er, I belie,re ~.y tiue is up so I 'r70uld like to thank the han. Per bers for CJivinq 2e a five ~in~te leave. I had '!P... :·TEARY: You did not say anvthing nice things about ne. t·m. c·JOODROF: I had a lot nore nice things to say. But however, another time will co~e. Than}: you very r:1.uch, :T.r. SreaJ.o:er.

Eear, hear! :m. SPE3\1\ER: 'I'he hon. the ne!:ther for Hernitac:-e. r=ear: "lear! ::m. J. ~:I~1SOR · ~1:r. Spea1-:er, nm-; that the :ra'!")T')y I~our is over I will have to bring the Eouse down to more serious thincrs. Dy a neculiar coincidence I have to follow the ~on. the ~e~ber for Bay of Islanes again this year as I did last vear. Last year I had to listen to all the wonderful things he got U? in Bav of Islands. :}e wondered where the money went, ,.,•e kneH then. But the start of the hon. member's soeech I thought was all co:r.'inq fron the provincial s-rc'Ternr.en t.

As we got further along the wav I realized most of it r·.,ras conin<; frorr1. the fe6eral qoverrrnent. r-;e can all talk aoout the nonev :rc:c1 t:1e federal rrovern!:ten t. I cL"'1 loc}~i.r.g at S2. 5 Pillion there too, but I cannot find anv fron the nrovir:cial CJOVernT:l.en t. Sneec~, I shall no the route follcHeC. '8'.r P"' :::::olleaC""ues .. . uho have alreadv SDoken. and t:1at is to O',ltline as ,.:ell as I can w~ere it affects the neoole nF ~y ~istrict o~

Aoril ~1, 1977, Tane l789, .. ?asre 3 a'Jb :m. J. ::r:rsoR: Fortune - Eerrnitage. That is a fair sized district, all the way from St. Bernard's i~ the .2u.st to Gaul to is, where I live, in the :·?est in Eerr'l.i ta<']'e 3av. Eowever, we are still talking about the Throne Speech and the nronises of s:;reat things to ~To acknov;ledge..rnent of the errors of omission anc:. coD.miss ion r rronises :naC.e to try and cover up those that have been by-passed over the nast four or five years~ it was never intended that they would be fulfilled.

The game plan \•las set clmm: Get '!Our m;n district covered first with all the goodies you can, li.ke the han. the I:".e!~I!Jer for Day of Islcmds (~ir, ~7oodroT:.') was talking about, forget the Liberal districts and even forget the Tories in the Liberal districts. T~ey do not like that too well either and that ~a~ ~ackfire on you. :Tine is a connlete ly di :'f erent district. That will be a different kind of kic~back I can assure you. '· !R. CALLA~J ~ They voted thirtv-seven ner cent ~or our man over there. !'-1R. T'700DP.OT!: T'!hat? ''R.

CALLA~·J · Thirtv- seven per cent ~ere supposed to have voted Liberal. 'lery <JOOd. ~!ell, it \·ns not ver' .' Liberal - Orc.1er, 0lease: And so thev decided . . · . ~. "'-: ";; .. ·· -· .... ..,;

April 21, 1977 Tape 1790 (Night) J~1 - 1 ~!R. J. \JU!SOR: to do only those things which if not done would be considered blatantly partisan by the electorate and bring on undesirable consequences, delegates to St. John:s, pickets storming the closed doors of Confederation Building - remember the traHlermen? ~ · ffi.. NEARY : Oh, that is right. And their own member, the Minister of Justice~by the Hay,•·Jas the one 1;,rho locked them out. ~~IR. J. HI~1SOR: Right. Roads blocked by picketing and so on.

There is going to be more trouble over the roads because ve do not have good roads~ and you "ivill never develop, at least my district ,.;ill never develop unless the roads are straightened out. Even the Minister of Transportation admits that they are the verst in NeHfoundland and that is quite an admission. Our people have learned that this is the only way to get a reaction from the present government~much less some action - picketing and other forms of protest. It is too bad that is the r.vay it is.

A fast run-dov;n on the Throne Speech indicates - page one, 11 :1ucht has been done but \ve must slow dmm severely goverr1ment expenditure in the area of public services. 11 I would say they should slm<T down.,or maybe wake up '"hen major expenditures can be apprqved by junior employees of a department r.vithout reference to a department head,much less an assistant deputy minister or a deputy minister as the Auditor General pointed out.

"This government cannot be held responsible for the vicious inflationary cycle being experienced generally in the world today .11 Ho,vever some of the same· reasons apply to our financial position, over·- spending, over-indulgence, labour unrest Hith the result in strikes, loss of production, living hi6h off the hog, then having to face further borrm·Jing to prime the conomy.

Page one again, paragraph eig:1t, sa:,rs .''During t i1e past year budgetary restriants ha·,-e been the order of the day, and ~.;e have bad to undertake the programme of austerity. 11 The cliff icult decisions required to maintain responsible, financial or fiscal policy

April Zl, 1977 Tape no. 1790 Pa~e Hr. J. Hinsor. ~-7 ere too little and too late. The rlifficnlt decisions to Hark harder Hith greater commitments to the collective good of t~is Province of Ne1-1foundland and Labrador should have been tal:en earlier on by the P. C. aG.ninistration. They are nou trying to pass the buck to the fishem.2.n, the teacher, tLe miner, t~1e shopkeeper, the civil servant.

The elected representatives on this side of the House are aware of the call for higher productivity, but from the present goverrunent, not the fishermen~nor the teacher., nor the miner~ nor the fisherman . ..The inshore fisherman is up at 4:00 A.:'L So!lle get up a little earlier than that. I kr..ov then to leave at midni;sht. They have further to go. Depending on how far he has to steam to his fishing grounds die tates what time he gets out oi bed.

Lots of times he does not even go to bed because he gets home at ten, has a cup of tea, lies dm·m and the old '•mman orods him out at twelve o'clock, one o'clock, t\lO o'clocl~. If the ueather is good he \vill have a good d2y, and he will be at it until five in the afternoon , if it is not a big day fishing. If it is a big d4y fishing he gets home mabye t-en o'clock in the night. Normally it 1vould be six to eight o'clock, and I need not point out that he may have had a good trip or a bad one.

Fish or no fish he has to punch in the day, and he has to accept the productivity, that the tide, the ,,leather or possibly fouled gear permitted. Now can you ask that man to produce any more, to do any better? I do not think so. How about the deep-sea fishermen, the tra1vlermen r1ey fish day and night, six hours on, six hours off, if all is :vell. If they have t~·line damage - in other words their net is damaged it is all hands pitch in. Until the net is over the side or the s~ern as the case nay be, they 'dorl~ on a continuously movir.g platforn for approxi.J.-:J.ately ten days.

T11ey are also, as is t~e inshore fisherTC.an, subject to 1veather conditions and small catches uhich they are gettin."; nouadays, very snall catches. A tra~,;rler that is .:=..ble to bring 500, Ot)l ryounds, coming in uith - I knm; ti1e one I sm.;r in Fortune l-:.ad 16,800 poun~s , a ! ig stern trawler, big deal . .... ,. .l ... .... :.

,~:_;rU 21. 1<?77 ""a.pe 1701 LB-1 . "P.. J. r.rprs rw: qe have enou:;>r vntes to crin.q; the fjsh_ thAt is a\'?.ilabJe. I clo nrt thirk ·<:-re neecl to lecse a11Y!""-0re for a -.;:rhile, ~ut T,Te c;:rn , oo~· at it. 1 '0 1 ·' ~res !:he oresent (>Overn,..,ent nronose thCit t"I-Je deepsea fishermen shou 1 cl res-pcncl tn the ce?l. ] fn!" ~r.Pater nrr'ductjvirv, ~reater (C\l""'mit,..,,ent?

T~ev arP ~reRt words. you ?et clm·rn to the ni~ty ?,ri .ttv vou inst cannot .Q:et an::rnore out o~ these !:'en. ~e loa~ aFter twent y -five or thirtv chi l ~ren for five or six hours fjve days a '·'eek. ti·ere a:e severa] nights a ,.Teek to be th01l9"ht of for extra-curricular c>.cti.vities. Not of the sr:hoo1. i.n a1] c.?.ses ~ut assnciatecl with it. "',:.achers helve to take ':·•0r~~ ~10r.'e. with the!'1 as T,vell. 'T'hey ?re c1ecj cater reople ~-1ho teach ancl as 1velJ particjpate in total coTT'T"itrne.nt to corrnnnity affairs.

I arn proud to have nn thi.s sicle of the uOUSf' SOTT'e of TT'.y col] ea~mes r,.rho l•rere tead,ecs anc 1-· noH Pha t I am taJJ:in;> a~ont. I a~ a ~e~her of a school boarcl, an int~~r~tecl schnol I l,· norv \·'bat the teac!"•ers r1o. I !<nor.; r.+-"'.t a time tl":ey have, ho~·7 r.;rel1 they perfoTil"', hm,T flecli C<'ltec. thev ·are and He a.re ver:r prc1,(1 to ha.ve theT" ~dth us, so 111a11v of them o"" thi.s si <"e. 'T'hev <1re T'.C"·' totallv co~~itterl rerrese~tnt~TPS of their ilistr5cts. I ~~ sure th~v are cloinp: _iust as goof! A. joh at that as thev did i.n the cJa.ssroorns.

If tbe present ~?"cvern!"'ent hr'ls tr.e firT" fcdth th<:>t thjs Province has resClr1rces to provi<"e a ~. i.rh ~ evel of ircol"e for its peop1 e. let us see vou 1 ead the Pay. r. YJ:->?.t i.s T·!ron ~ ,,rj th a crange of pace or di rection For that ~atter? Lea(! the way an~ the penple of this Province P i l l follow. gowever if the ~eoule of this Province F0nlr c;-~re t0 toe t h e J i.ne. -.

.t.pri1 21, 1977 P-2 ':Thich is c0nsirerec'l exce1lent hy tb:is Cl.c!r.>ir.istrat:Lon th2t rr..:>.;' not be as favourable A.s c0uld possiblv rave been acauirec fro!" other sou:ces? 7he favour.af-.le pu!:lid .tv received ~y Alberta clue t" the ti. T"in~ of this Joan~at a ti:r'e Hhen our neip:r-1--orinp: Prov:i.nce nf rnehec c·l<:ts disp!ayin2 a rather militant attitu~e~anrl stilJ is 1 towarrs Confederation, Hhile that r.,as 'Tery c!esirahle in the interest::; of ranl'!rlic:rn soliraritv, it shonJ.c1 have heen Forti, ;e c"unle of nercentar.-e MR.

DOODY: It ,.:as. ~etter.T.nstead you crral-.hefl at t1--e first offer tn acr.n-lre c:sn T"t1.lion which as far as tl:e ()pposition is concerned is a ccmt-r?.veT' tion of the snirit of the re~Jlations that were approve(! bv this Fouse in 1976. ~owever. thRt is history. Page 2 of tl--.e Speech from the ~hron_e ; s taken up ,,; th rovern!:'.en.t tr r'l0 evervtbinr- for us "'e must shoT,, seJ f-relian.ce. ~mv do I tell that to t!->.e ll'!ar. in my district with no job, the trnnsands of Men Tv-ith no iobs? It is not ea~y to rio. ;I fellmv is verv 1H·e1y to lose his se_l_f-reH .:mce T,7 t--,en re _qet.s on r.·:e~f:He.

T. thinl~ Any :nan in this Ponse FouJ cl. too if he haci to !:"C' c1or.r-n to They talk of r.esource re,relnpll'!ent~Menti0nin,q fisher:ies, r1ininrr, hyrro electric, offshore oil and 2as, tour:isrn, forests, rhe inc1ustrv, R~ricutuTP, ~arine inrlustry, not leavin~ out thP se.rvi ce industries r..rhic.'r are hasi c supnort for priT!'<'l.rv -reso11rce ~evelnr~ent. In the next ~re~th vou talk al--out s~cnnrary nrncessin~ I think tl"1e TI"inister toucre.rl on j t tl--e otrer 0,.,,. 0r vesterr!?. y '·::Ce!'.

.April ? 1 - .. ' Ir-3 nf :c'isreri~s anc'. mayhe a fe<·' more on the p-ovem,.,ent sirle - there are including ~yse]f. F~ have a lot to }.earn. T f!TI' Ol!ite sure Pithout ?OiDg intn the ~etails I can assure this ?ouse that if we vere tn atte~pt to ?et int0 th:is ~.re Hnttld seriously affect nur ,A,.,ed C'.Cin rcarket,~·rh:ich is the onJy one pe rC~_ve,. , t - ~- . .... . .. ........ . . ... -·... ~ ~

'~' ,; It is our najor ~arket for yroun~fish, in fact our onl v ::car~-: et at ryresent. Zr2al:in~ into the Eurooean ~arket ~..rl:.ile e:-tinentl:; desirahle. is P.ot easily c.ttaineG. r. r~1ic~1 I a'-! sure the ::on. 'finister of Fis~~ries :1as dj_scovere-:1.

Be t~at as it ~ay,secondary orocessin~ to any extent for the Euronean mar~:et as '-rell runs into so111e fancv Droblems ;Jaserl :c2.inly unon t1.e many varied requirements of the different racial ar~ d et:mic recuire""1ents of the Furol:'ean ::>.ac-l~et "-lh.ic!-1. involved very sonhisticatec "'rocessin~ tec hn.iaues; and ::1uch too rlifficult to contenT)late in our li:::litec techr~olo~y Hit:t secondar:r ryrocessinr>:.

FoHever, ~Hir..ary nrocessing ar:d 'C\ark etin!?: is the first sten in this area and represents an interestin7 challenge, nur fisher:r r>olicy after 450 nr 50f'1 years is still in the doldrums ~·1 e do not seem to ~<:noF hm._r to really get to it. And my district is rurelv a fisheries ·oriented district. There is not one conT!!.uni ty that does not have a nu..e1ber of fishermen.

T:Ce only one that ni~ht 1)e lo~·T on the tote!'l Dole there >-rould be Terrenceville 2 ... ncl. '!lOSt of the neonle there go outside for -.:.;ork, A lot of the neople in Terrenceville are still in the fishery ~ecause t!-lev go to Grand Bank and '1arystmm and fish on tr."lHlers. And this aonlies riq;ht throur;h ~ortune Bay; r.Jithout t:Ce fortune Bay·:nen I ctouht that very many of the DOT boats or the r.'T heats or t>ceir tra~.rlers ~-10uld be so fully manned as they are. Anrl. it is ~ettin~ more difficult to g:et men to 7.0 on tra't.rlers. I think anybody 't·lho is O;')eratin~?: them kno'·lS this.

But uith the neu rer dien rates "!!-'lid to traHlermen and their officers rates of pay,~nd a real 1 y ~oorl nrice for fish, is ?. very lucr2.thre job aT'.d more 7oung men are c;oi::1:: :-,,qcl: in,to ~ ~ e fis ~ Pries as t he ~i n ister ~ointed out. ~ ~ ere are a ls o ~ oi~~ 'JP.Ck or trying; to ~et ;-,ac]: ir.to the inshore fishe::- ;l, :_-:l:ortur,atelv one of t~J.e .'irea t drar . .rhack.s to youn.c; nen ;:;:oing into the inshore fis'cerY t.;(lav is the fact t11'?.t t:leY cc>.:rr.ot <?:et lohster licer.ces- . to :-aention sal:'lon) t'1ere lS l'.O '.1cne for hi:", <:ettin": :1 S.? ...

J_;-n ... on J.ice .... ,ce, ·'·.-.. · ~ .· _ ..

• . 1 ", .~.nrl_ -'-, 1077 '':"'\.f 'r-o. J. nr-:S0R: ~ut I ~o hone we can influence the federal '!O'rern.'"1ent into looseninf up t 1:.e lobster re?:ulations - :rou ~Till ~ave to excuse r:y voice, I have a touch of a cold. All right the~r cut out the moonligh~rs, a ~ood TT\any of theM, 'ClOSt of them ~.;ere school teachers. A ... 'J !10'T. ~~~·fBF.R: For lobsters. Oh ves, school teachers 11ere ~STeat Moonlighters for lohsters~ .'J.nd others, They cut out these , if t:1ev cut out so many as that they cc.n aff"ord to <]:ive a fP.~~ lohster licences.

Probably took their home~.ro-r-~: r.;it:,. the"") cl.id t:Cev? 'ffi. J. ~INSnR: n~ yes, thev had nlentv of tiTTle to ~o their hcrm.e~mrk. Rome~·Tork was done in the night. Ynu do not lohster fish in the ni?ht. I\'eJ 1 hoF are they moonlighters then? They call theT'l moonlighters but verv ft=>tJ lobsters are taken in the moon li~ht. Thc.t is only a collO(]Ui.'l.J iSTT1., is that the right r,;orcl? 'f"Ct. ROBFFTS : Yes. '~st of the lobsters are taken eerly in the ~ornin~ hefore they have to ?O to school. School teachers. '.,fjl, J .

HI~TSOR: Yes, no trouble to get out two-thirty in the :'lornin?;, sc::.ool teachers ar.c1. others. If they could loosen un the federal regulations on lobster fishing there would be ~_j_ter~lly hur:rlreds of young: '!".en ~n bac~c into t"he fis~1ery. It Fould n;i7e t~:1e::n 2. 9:'JOd. start. ''T' J . ryrrso"P : Y'es. : ~. "<f'TTUTJ'!..TV • . ··) .. croo . J. ~ .. es. !~~·:1 t i_s e: .. :ac tl-..r it. It is wort~ in t~~ r2~.ll y good start if 1-}e has to ~uy nets or tra·Hl ~ea:':'~ 2.nd boats s.re exDe!"'.sive. You ~ave to ryav a ~ot 2ore ~~qn t~at for - - now. ·_.: j

. .:.n:-i J. .... , -~ ) 'E'~.ne :lo . 17 "' ~ It is diffi c ult to ~note t he figures ·:\if fe-rent OI'.es are as l:i:tg O(WJ !::ecause it ru~s anyt;·•here from ~1,1~0 uo t o Sl , 4CO , ~! , 6~n for a twenty -eig~t, twenty - nine , t~irty foot ~ oat . I am sure a lot of t~e gent~eBen around t h.-:tt ) ta'!'\iliar ~v it~ i:: . ''os t o:: t ~e:-'1 I t~in l: in t h is House a r- e bavraen an~ do I'.Ot mind bein~ calleC. that . 'fo re oo~ver to t hem . In t~e lining in~ust~· I he~ r no renresentat ion h ein ~ n.::vie for seconC.ary oroce s r-in ?- ir. t "1is i.---;mortant indust rv for oC:vious reasc~s . .. . -. ~- ..... .... _ ... ... .J ') J

April 21,1977 Tane 1793 AH-1 ~'.R. J. FESOR: Hmv in the name of peace T>lould you set up secondary nrocessinp,: in metals that would be kind of expensive. Oil and gas~ if ever we are able to produce thP.se economically; and be produced and marketed in divers forms, especially if we could ac0uire a petrochemical complex. At this time we have only a vrhite elephant in dan~er of becoming a rusty elephant. Tourism, iii. this area I feel we have much to do and T.·Je could use some imagination.

In my district,as the hen. gentleman from Bav of Islands, the hen. member for l3ay of Islands heard tonight, if he \vas looking at Pear and I-Tm.r the profile done by the CBC, they nointed out the fact that Bay d'Esnoir l;vhich is ;:::till in mv district, the water from "9"av d! F.spoir runs right out past mv door and I am living in mv orvn district. I nresenteri a hrief to the former Liberal government on that but no action ,.,as taken on it. It ended up in tee Department of Tourism, it must have. They still have not - this government has not taken anv particular notice of it. Excellent tuna fishing area.

I was promised a hoat for that I do not know hm.v many years ago - ten years ago they were going to have a look at it. I have been among the tuna fish in a small boat - literally hundreds of tuna fish and a better bay to fish in than Conception Bay~1;.;rhich I knmv fairlv vrell. I grev7 un there in Topsail, gre\v up until I vias ninteen vears of age. Swam in the salt t-rater, sarN' old John Butler of Topsail harpooning horse mackerel, we called them - AN PON. HFMBER: That is right. -still tuna fish. MT HO~. HE1-1:BER: Right you are. MR. J. IHNSOR: ~Terse ~-~ad-rel.

Conceution Bav is a dirtv hav ;.vhen the Hind ST•Tin~s in from the nort>,east. ~-iR. :'TEARY: You are darn rizht it is. ~fR. J. T.TINSOR: As I very cvell knm.;r. :rR. ~TT:APY: That is •vherP. I got mv sea legs. .: ~!':.-: , - . ~ · -· ··-

April 21,1977 Tane 1703 AP-2 ~fR. J. ~JDTSOR: Yes~ that is a good nlace to get them. And Hermitage Bay - there is only one wind that blows, the ~-;esterly ~vind, that ~<~ill give you an;r trouble and you are never too·far from shore. If you have any kind of a boat you can make it ir ten or fifteen minutes and vou are in out of it. The tuna fishing in that area and in Bav du :.Tord, in Bav d'Espoir, Ray d'Espoir, a misnomer~Bay d'Esnoir,but not at the moment r,.;ith seventy per cent unemployment, it rP.ally is Bay d'Espoir.

But it was the Bay of Hone according to the I Frenchman that named it;Eay d'Est that is Rav East: Bav du ~ord , North Bay, beautiful nlaces for a tourist industrv. If He only had - ~!R. ~TEARY: ~'~at hapnened to that cruise boat? was that a success or ~-:hat? r.fP. J. HINSOR: Cruise- the French boat tha.t came from St. Pierre? HR NEARY: Yes. MR. J. T,JTNSOR: No,it ~vas not a success for one very good reason~ that the Bay d 1 Espoir road ~-;as not completelv paved at that time and people did not mind a little rock and roll going to . St.

Pierre~ but they did not like the rocks flvinS?; on Bay d'Esooir road; that is a different hallgame. That I think ~as mainly the reason that cruise did not turn too successfully. ~ut it was a natural i£, they had a good paved road and that, I keep on saying lis the ans~v-er to the develol)emant of my total district 1 especially the Connaigre Peninsula and Harbour Breton T.vhich has not come into its own and it is time it did.

It is a beautiful little tm,m, Harhour BretoT'. ,and even some of mv colleagues ~vho suffered during the by-election down there because of the accomodations which they are not used to. 'T'hev are SDoilert. FR. ~'TEARY: I never ~•ant to see a TJink room again . • , .·- ·r ..., .... .,;; . -·. (.,_ .:. ,.,

Ar>r il 21,1977 Taoe l793 JlP-3 ~8 . J. t.JIXSOR: ~ ~ver wane to see a oink ~oom a~ain . T~ey ~ ave chan,ed the colour but they ~ave adderl some het ter rooms)I should inform mv collea~ue,and it will be ~u ch more cofllfortable if you ever have to go dm·m t!"lere ,not fo r a ;,v - ele ct ion . HR . NE/'RY: t-fhat about a fe rr;r ? Fave you got a · ferryboat? ~'!R . J. IH~1SOR : Sow do vou s pell that, Si r ? ~.re do not have a ferryboat . ~· !R . . !EARY: You do not have a fe rrv. '·ffi . J. t·?L TSOR: I am tireri asking fo r i t.

I t i.~ tl,_e only island. th.<~.t I Jrnow o f in ~rewfoundland chat: does not have a ferryboat 1 and on w-eekends an~;here f.rom fifty, sixtv ,seventv, eighty people leave Gaul tois ~o to Hermitage , Sometimes t hey cannot ma!-:e it . H to,Te 1-tave a major function like a school opening or Lions charter ni~h t 1 .. - : ') ...... ,. .J

April 21, 1977 Tape 1794 (Night) PK - 1 Xr. J. Winsor: they use all forms of transportation suitable to water. Longliners- those boys would rather be sleeping than carting people back over the bay 12:00 o'clock and 1:00 o'clock in the ~orning. And I think that it is ridiculous that we do not have a ferry, although we have· asked for it.

And to ask the fish company, Gaultois Fisheries.) to continue to transport pecple in their little boat, it is only licensed to carry about six ~eople and have thirty people on it is asking the ~ompany to be criminal~really~ They have to move the peoplell' if the government ~Yill not do it, it is partly federal and partially provincial, but. it has been overlooked too long. It is too bad the Hinister of Transportation is not in the House, I hope he is within reach of my voice. ~'1R. NEARY : What kind of a boat .... HR. J. \HNSOR: The same as you would have going over to your old hometown. :l:R. NEARY: No. Too big.

Do you mean the John Guv? AL~ HON. MEMBER: No. MR. J. WINSOR: It is not too big, no. XR. NEARY: The John Guy carries twenty-eight cars, You would not need it that big. MR. J. T,HNSOR: No. Not that big for cars, but not too much difference. You have got,like I said " Hermitage Bay is a pretty comfortable, sheltered bay, except when the winds are down from the Western, and that is fine weather, and that is when people want to go when it is fine weather. MR. DOODY: The road conditions are different too, you do not need that much cars carrying capacity either. Passenger cauacitv in t~~ ~~ j cr ~rohlem. ~1R.

J. 1-JTNSOR: Passenger capacity is the major problem, the hon. minister is quite correct. However I am working on the Minister of Transportation and Communications with a view to getting a road in there. It is only twelve miles, well maybe fourteen, give or take a nile or two, put that to the minister.

April 21, 1977 Tape 1794 (Night) PK - 2 Hr ~ J. \.Jinsor: I was talking about tourism until I got sidetracked in my excitement. An HON. l·:IEHBER: It could well be valuable. :-IR. J. WINSOR: I still think tourism could mean a fat dollar to Bay d'Espoir~ !t would certainly employ a number of people in that much de?ressed area. And I was very happy to rhear my good friend, Reverend Father Grace~say that he thought the people of Bay d'Espoir should go back to fishing. I think they should too.

Their forefathers did, I doubt very much if they have lost their expertise in that, because some of them do it as past-time now, and they are really gone so far that they have no equipment. As Hr. Collier pointed out,to get back into the fishing game today takes a lot of money. We are talking about, you know, several thousands of dollars for a boat, and God knows how much gear you would need, nets - well we wish they did not use nets, and we hope that eventually the darn things will go out because they drown the fish which turns the flesh dark and it is not the most desirable product.

The best possible product is trawl fish, and I am talking about trawl lines, not the big trawlers. Half the people in there could get some spinoff from fisheries, and tourism. There are great guides in there, some of the best guides ,I suppose, in Newfoundland you ~V'ill find at Bay d 'Espoir, in the Milltown and St. Alban1 1 s, St. Veronica's, St. Joseph's area and so on. And I was very pleased to hear Mr. John Augo on tonight wondering if the Minister of Fisheries is going to let him have some of the $20 million to build a few longliners. SOME HON. MEl•1BERS: Hear, hear! 2fR. J.

HINSOR: Because he does a great job, he has beautiful long- liners. MR. W. CARTER: I was there one time. i'-1R. J . 1-.JTN'SOR: Yes, he does a great job. Also in his own hometmm of Harbour Breton there already is a longliner facility there as well,

April 21, 1977 Tape 1794 (Night) PK - 3 Hr . J. \~ins or: and two of the best l c ngliner builders in Ne~..rfoundland are there, Harold and Garfield Strickland. They no doubt could expand their operation . The last time I talked with thee they could not take an order for a longliner because they were too busy , t hey had too many lined up, but that was only a two man operation \.Jith a little assistance here and there. These are the ways that can make Newfoundland work. I should not be telling the government how to make it work. ~1R • NEA.E.Y : t~e should be used to doing it ourselves. :lR.. J. W!lNSOR: Well that was what I was about to say. Thank you. But ·1 .- ~· --. : .:. ~. ·:.· )

April 21, 1977 Tape no. 1795 Page 1 - o.s :'rr. J. \.J'insor. therE' are many uays that r.-re could take people off ~.;elfare, get their dignity back. Hm.; undignified or hoH degrading - it is not undignified I suppose - but it is degrading to have to ~old out your hand for welfare. And the people of ~~e~·Jfoundland are very independent people. Apart from the urban areas like St. John's, Corr.er Brook, Grand Falls, Gander and those, if you go into the ou tports everybody owns his own hone, and he manages somehm,: \vith the help of his next door neighbours, his friends, his relatives to put together a home.

He does not have any fancy mortgage. He does not have to go to the loan sharks to get any money to build his house. And that is the way he wants it. He \·lOuld do vlithout it, he ~vould live with his mother-in-law and his father-in-la'lv or his mm parents rather than go borrow o.oney to build his house. He has got to have his mm house. To improve the tourist set up in all those places I need not point out that you have to add on a haphazard accor:unodation system, a restaurant set-up t~1at apart from those in the larger towns leave much to be desired and ·Hill certainly only deter future visits by tourists.

There were some efforts made years ago to help people set up motels, tourist lodges and different facilities to attract tourists. Some of them got shot down for spending money. MR. NEARY: Did you ever pay that telephone bill to that fellow in Harmon? HR. ~..J'OODRO\'J: Gabe. ~1R.. J. HINSOR: Pardon~ Gabe? '1R. WOODR0\-7: v . , ..... ~ es, we pala. l-.. ',·le owed him a telephone hill after the election and he \·lent on Open Line one morning. : (R. J. m::~SOR: Oh. I am not aware of all your sins of omission Hhen you Here dm·m there ~lR. NEAI'3: They love me,my son I qaved you vour nomination fee . ~·!R.

J. ;.,rp:rsr.r: Ra: I did not send them a bill for so!!'.e of the things that happened to me. However, I enjoyed it.

April 21, 1977 :m.. J. \JHTSOR: everybody. To. pe no . 179 5 Page 2 - ms The forest industry. I knoH I an boring S0~1E liON. c· lE~illERS: No, no: :•lR. J. \HNSOR: And that is no more than has been done here continuously for a long time. :1R. NEARY: It is some good stuff. MR. J. HINSOR: r.~e only frustrating thing about all this is that nobody in my district cares a hoot in Hades of uha t goes on here tonight. They do not think I am here toni~h t talking about the district. They think I am into the Arts and Culture Centre. \ffi..

NEARY: 1-lhen I go out to my district they ask ;;;.e ~·Then the House is going to open. Al.~ HON. I1EM.8E~: That is '"here you should be. l-fR. J. \HNSO~: That is where I should be in the Arts and Culture Centre, yes, not speaking but listening. Hmveverlthe forest industry because it is in the capable hands of industrialists, with a minimum of government interference, and considerable goverrment assistance, is a major factor in the economy of of our ~rovince.

And if you do not spray the bud<:vorms there \..rill be no forest industry, And I am sure the han. minister is a<:vare of the fact that that is a major problem. I remember <;.Jhen the spraying <;.;as going on before and somebody asked me the other day, 11 What happens if you spray the forest to kill the spruce bud\·lorm?'"'~vell," I said, "Your rabbits \.Jill disappear, your partridge lvill disappear, small birds \·Jill disappear, game, sm:-_11 game gone." "Oh!" I said, "Y~s, and if you sprayed the people they mir;ht be gone too according to NeH Bruns,Jick." So it is a very difficult dilemma for the minister.

But :1o1-;ever, the continuing researc:1 in forest management by govermnent in close co-operation \lith the operating companies should assure our future in forests, not only in the Island of Ne•,lfoundland but in that vast forest resource of Labrador ,.;hich

April 21, 1977 Tape no. 1795 Page J - ms l.!D .J . tH~SOR: I feel sure is only just barely couched upon ac chis point. I do feel that secondary industry may have its place in the forest indus try and that \>Te are barely scracch:.:1.g the surface And continued researc h and experimentation t-lill be necessary to realize the desired improvements . The different species of wood , birch, cheer y , as pen - .,· A:.'i HON . ~!E~fBER : (Inaudible) . I d-o not knm.;. I am not a \vOodsman . 3ut I Eeel sure that

IP.- 1 t~ ese whjc~ are n~t St ! t ~ah le for r e~u ction tn oap er cr re late~ PC C~o~y t~ ~ ~reater extent t ~r.~ ac nrese~t . They closed do~~ three or four lumber ~ills out in Gan~e r, in t he r;anc e r area . A'7 Uf'l\: . \rt:' ' "BP"D: - - --- t o na r ket t ""'ew. . ~e ll , chis is unfortun~te . 1 r; h;~~ not onlv repossessi.on in tre ~ ill s -anr r kno~J of sor-e in rvpr at a bar ti;""e - i s ~·rron~ . ~id ~e stra i~hten that one ou r hetveen the~? I do not know . 1 t hin~ t ~ev ~ r e afra id to ~nve . ~'P.

J . !JINS 0, : ""l-Jev are afr;:~icl to move 1-, ecau~e t-te thr et'!tenecl tbeT!' r.r~th the r.Er. . A..\! FION • ~)"RFP : TncJuc!in~ the camerc>.s. '-'"' J . f.JtNS0P: And tl;e on l y ont> o'ler there t.•hc:> is nnt afrair o f the f"'R(' is t he ~inister of Transportation and rommunic~tions . · ~e loves i t . Thnt w:i 11 turn ar ouncl ye t . 'rn J . 9INS()'P : Thc>.t ~vi.ll t urn . \fl" 'l'Y .'?':' : Tha t •.;ill turn arouncl ~ ynu need no t •.rorry anotJ t that . "'1? .J. i· !1~1S0P : Yes ~ H he cloes not f.i;-; the Pa r bou r "i1.J ~'oar!

H T•1 • } } • '<1" ' "C" II 'OV : ''t' .J , '."T '.IC:('O ; turn it ~ ver a!"'d :! t j!:; ... c>.rlP jn Jaoan, I ~j,,e vou t he '"~' ,.;:!'o"' : f'r ~o in t n r:~-e r. r rert":i.naJ o11t i ,... Po '!"'t Rw-~ t:;:tsrt!E'S, t he ------- - ~u-e . -·. ~ ,!'

A.priJ 21, 1Q77 Tape l 706 I:S-2 YF. . :-i:;:ARY : Hacle iT' Japan. '~. J. THN:=:n-r: I hav~ seen a lot better stuff IDa~e do~n in ~aultois in l"!Y ho!"et0':·'11 1--y a fellor.r \•Tho hac1 noth in~ to clo on) y Docket knife anc so on, turn them out in the ni~ht t:i.me iust foe ('J-,.ristTI!as presents.

And there is a lot of hanricraft '"·or 1' going on c1oFn in the Pool's \ave, Boxey, !1er1 rove, Coomb's r::ove, vose .·\f"lbrose area. ':~1.e Fomen do~ there are _iust p:-r:eat on the neeole cra.:t and other thin?S. '3ut the big pror1em-anc'l I am sure tbat the vinister of Incustrial anr PuraJ f'evelonT'1ent r.roulrl tell f:'le- i<! the rnarl:etinQ: of it. ''el~, ~nodness - LC·TT)PIGP..:-T: The pro~ress is fantastic. - Fhat is \·rrono: tvith our sal es!!'en they cannot get o11t anrl sell that stuff? nuilts Rnrl that sort of thing, the !!'ar~et is there for them. ~'P. J.

VI~~sno: Yes. '·'elJ e'1en our sr. eep are gone so r.:e c;::;Pno t produce blan~ets too well. (Inaudible) the peocle c'lo not feel like knittin~. ~~-. ~HNSOR: Hell. this is r,J~at \•Te have Jost. This is wh<'lt Pe rave Jest. He have becore too l"!o~el'1.. ''P J. T,TP'S()P.: I dn not ~now if the people have ~ost the ahility hut they rave lost the "t·e;~;r to pet at it. I suppose it is ~.;rong to be ~oing those things nNr hecause Fe ~re getti.n!! Trore !tlar.ern an<" sonhistic?te~ an~ ynu ~o n0t want the felJn~ nPxt ctnor to see v0u out sheariT'~ a s~een.

You kno~, ~ave a fe~ sbeeu ti~~ on the ha~~ end of the house C"'T sorething. Yon cJo nnt ~o•ant thE'T" see in? you ,<~_]_1 our resources to thE' n-re~. test m'\ssit--le ~e;>ree. Rut I fPel there ;>.re taH: in~ ?l--nt!t inint ventures as if it Frcs? bnmc 1 ne• ·· r.0ncept . .. 1

.11 r r i.J 2 1 . l o 77 P'-3 ~Pd as r ~entionec r.~, I thin!· it Pc:>s the hon . rnetni,er tC'r LaPo• 1 e (',{r. ·eary) 1 in case a'!'v"'orv The hem . re!"her for '?av of Islar.C.-:; ( 'r. i:ooclrcn·

i) is '."0 • J . FI~Sf)P : And there are other, Manv ~; fferent t ~·pe s 0f .i oint venture. Sot"e .are f>OCH:! • Some P-r'!! rot so ~C'O~.

Sor-e turn out verv t.;eJl. !t js rli"f:icult' t~ reterrir:e •.·ho 9'1"!: t:Oe t etter o: that har)?:cdn,the ~irst one or any t hat "'av e o cc:~trrer! si.nc:e . 0owever everv ~oint ventu r e since th~t ti~e has ~een on tbe ~ame basis , ''f·"hat is in it f. or me . '' And I su~~est r:h;<t: i c :- he oresent ~overnrrent is ?-Oing into r. ioint ven t ure, r:rev are askin?, ' Ph<l t is in it fo r ns ,o r ,,rh?.t is in it for ~e··•founc:IJ.and. sttg!7est that the Cermans a r e sayinf.' "~ffiat is in it f.or us?'' Anc vou cann 0 c expect thern to CC'T.l"e out ~ ere •·•:f t~ exnensive tr~···} er~ and nrt ?et somethin~ out of it . ..... ,...e '.cini!'=ter o~ ~j c;herj .es l-as tnJ <! ns ;:hrtt r h i ~ is ~ one sbo t <iea.l . i\nd h e may he ~·el.l -acivjsecl r.o consider it th~. t. a 0ne shot cleal. .Joif'lt ventures are sotrething t l-at h;>ve to be l<'cl· e~ nt Vf'ry c? r efvllv, and it ~av be t ~at ~e ~ill hAv ~ to oet i~ c0 the!" ~nrnPtiMe . . ' and t•'e rnav have to accmire trat-Jler~ to fully exrloit our ar.i li ty to catch t~e fish ~hich houefullv mill ~e avAilahle to u~

,\nril ..,, · - .J.. ' 1 ')77 Tane 'io. 17?7 T~ - l ,,...,_, .T. "li'rSOP: if anc! ;.;rhen the full effect of tl1e manag~"'n<nt of our r'larine resources ~-rithin the 20') mile limit brings the resource back to full bloom. I do not see ~oin~ looking for trm-rlers 'v!cen the boats tltat are out t :1ere fishii'.g cannot bring in full loads. The simnle darn reason is that there is no fish there Hhere they have to fish and ~·There they can fish.

Asainst acquiring ne'" trA.wlers., I 1-tave ~eard a very ~;_nowledgeable person in fisheries :-rho ~1a.s S!"ent a lifetime direct:ly involved in it, nersonallv and financiallv, in harvesting, I'rocessin~, and catching 2nd selling, Our fis~ resource say that 'le have sufficient catching ca1'Jability at preser:t and we are ::;cod enough for ten years ·N'mv he knor...;s more than T kno1;.7 about it.

I have only spent a quarter of a centurY at it and I have a lot to learn yet, I say that our travler fleet and the equim~ent and r.1ethods of catching need some revie~·Ting and it needs some overhauling. ~!e do have sor.'.e Hell eauipned canahle tra~vlers and v:e have a number that are antiquated and should be replaced with moderP. fis~in? vessels. ~-fi?.. NEARY: Any id-ea how to root the foreigners out? ~1p_. J. ~vB'SOR: Root them out? They are not rooting them out.they ar~ b-ringinQ; then in the harbour, catching them and bringing them in the harbour. Do you think you could ~et them out? '~-. J.

WI'!SOR: Oh ves, thev should not he allowed to fis~1 cvithin the ZIJ0 !Tlile li:>1it without a nermit. I do not t~in~ vou should ~e allo~ed to fish thcr~ at 2ll until the I <·Till huv that. \71-:ere the devil are the surD.luses: Tl'.ey are not in th·~ holds of t'1~ vessels co.,...,in<; in.

:'..977 T2.ne ~To. 1797 2 There have been m.:my ir..novatinns aed i!"1nrove!':l.ents !"'ade in fishin .g met~ods, the ty'De of tra .. ilers, t'tne of nets, the ::tet~o-2 of detection, nmr I ~. m dmm to the home stretc~. Bv leave 'Jack'~ Oh 1 I Rn r..ot as funny as the han. ne~ber frcm 3ay of Islands so I may not get tlcat £ive !:'.inutes b;r leave. Bv all means. If I lead vour ser.se of 1111r::our, last annther five r::inutes. That is debatable. ~ -fR. J • "!DIS OR: I will trv to cut it short.

There will be nore i~nrove!':l.ents of fishing techno~o~y and if rana~a dces not ta~;:e a.J.vantage of these inprovements He ':!ill not deserve the rir.; 1-:.t to nanage such a vast resource. ~{ e have the men anC ~ve :1ave t1:e resot1rce. r.;e hope it \·Jill bounce back. ~~:e nee~ the enlizltte~e~ assistance of men of vision, and lar~e financial resources to orovice the ecuip~ent and nlatforms to harvest t~is resource. It is no nla.ce for the timid anC. it is no place for the greenhorn.

Let us not for?,et that the fishery in all its ramificatior..s is a joint venture. 'faybe we would 'be r,rise to l:le the harvesters of the rm-r product and leave sonethin~ for our buyers in the marketplace for their side of the .l oint venture; and onlv ~o final processing such as salt fis h , snaked fish and so on. In effect what we are best at it mig;ht 1-)e, ~!e r-:;_11 have. difficu1 tv enough is all certainly ~eP. n trainir..'2; ::1cre cre r.; [llembers frorr t~2 cantain. to t h e '!,alley uoy.

Tt is in this contaxt ~hat I say rather t~an incre~se t~e fle~t ~~,.t· anv _g:reat ai'lount it ·FoulC. he eminef'_tlv 1..;iser tc i:r..nrove tbe onboar.d tec:·molo::_:.:y ~n-:', e:IT~ertise' anc t~1ere>:>v 1'11.-?.:·:i!'!i ."':e .. . ...

;'>.nril ~1 , 1?77 '-"' .J . ~!I~T~()~ : the lan-=.i.'1gs of each tyre of tr a•·tJ.er , "":\ inini.;!<: ~"aste of by- oroducts at sea, :~axi:nize the inulant nroc!uction , especiall:.,r those nlacts i.rt t~e areas of ::e•.•foundland t:·rhic~ !'lave :·Jin ter doKnti:!le , ~ nlan very ~uch in the mine of t !:e nresent '·finis ter o£ Fisl-teries .

L~t us not forget that in certain pea k neriods and in certain areas fishermen have had to cl.urno ,the day ' s HOt'!< <.Jith heavy finar:cial lOSS tO t~e!!l Ci"CC t he industry , If :;e are t~ying to rn ana~e t he total fis hery, all i::s aspects, SOMebody is going to have to null un his socks . T"is -;overT'nen t c.-'lnnot go it alone . :.re t.;ill have tc take full advanta~e of. and co- operate \o7ith industry, ~Jhich is t,7 ell establis hed and very k.r:otv.ledgeable in. catch i ng, procecsing and mar ke ting . !;1ey knor.N the or oblems , the pit:alls and they kno~·7 the needs.

But t ~ ey need greater financial suo~ort and there should not be a per.alty attac hed of losin~ control 0£ their companies and I look wit.h a j aundiced eye at our go verT'.!'lent orientet:: fi.sher:.es ccmnle:x . Y0u tell them . '~. J . HI~SO'R : Right. r~lith a full tralvler fleet of top caoabilHy our f'lant :s ivill ~e J.:e'?t busy . The ST)in off of these o'!.ants, the trawl ers, t ~e inshore and near shore fishing eff0rt sho ul d have a tremendous effect on t he economy of 0ur Province. It is the ... _ .. ....

April 21, 1977 Tape 1798 PK - 1 Mr. J. Winsor: the time for partis~n political downgrading, otherwise we sink the industry. Am I out of XR. NEARY: Carry HR. SPEAKER: I gentleman has , there AN HON . MEMBER: HR. J. IHNSOR: time, Mr. Speaker? on. think with the five minutes are two minutes remaining. Carry on 1 Jack 1 • Thank you, Mr. Speaker. leave, the han. My district of Fortune-Hermitage is very much affected by ~he ups and downs of the fishery, and this is why I said so much about it. MR. DOODY: If the hon. member wants to carry on for a few minutes later there will be no objection from this side. MR. J.

WINSOR: Thank you. I know of no>community in my district that has absolutely no fishermen. And it supplies trawlermen for stern trawlers and side trawlers, and Danish seiners, and I remember hearing the Hinister of Fisheries say that they discovered beds of turbot only this past year in Hermitage Bay and Fortune Bay. I have got news for him. We knew they were there a long time ago, Ana it is not in Hermitage Bay,it is up off Richard's Harbour, it is well out of Hermitage Bay, that is where the Danish seiners were getting the bed,and down off Roncontre, poor, forgotten, neglected Rencontre, in Fortune Bay.

Longline~s! Yes, we need a few more longliners, but I do not know how many. I think the minister is talking about a couple of hundred. If we have that many added to the present fleet -my gosh I do not know how many a thousand, I suppose~-they will be drawing for berths the next thing like they are down in Torbay and Pouch Cove. SOME HON . ~JEHBERS : Oh, oh! MR. J. WINSOR: Multi~urpose fishing vessels, we know about them, the lumps, badly designed, they did everything under the sun to make

April 21, 1977 Tape 1798 (Night) PK - 2 Hr. J. Winsor: their stability sufficient to pass the test. MR. NEARY: - more sculnins todav. HR. J. WINSOR: For which? HR. noony: The lumps·? MR. J. WINSOR: The lumps. The multi-purpose boats. MR. DOODY: The sculpins. MR. J. WINSOR: The sculpins. I am sorry, the lump is a little different than sculpin, you know that. "t-1R. NEARY: They are in my district. MR. J. WINSOR: lfuat? Lumps? ~fR. NEARY: T. J. takes them over there. "t-1R. J. WINSOR: Yes they were down our way the other night. ~~RON. MEMBER: Are they moving in? MR. J. WINSOR: And the Sand Launce. SOME RON.

MEMBERS: Oh, oh! HR. J. WINSOR: I have to cut this short. There is a little point that I should bring up here because I have listened to it so many times that it has annoyed me, Some colleagues on both sides of the House have talked about midwater when discussing fisheries matters. I should like to point out that when referring to midwater~fishermen are referring to a vertical depth rather than distance from shore, midwater is that way. In referring to distance we normally say inshore, near shore, offshore or deep sea, that is a horizontal distance.

In this respect our fisheries management officials are going to have to take a hard look at inshore limits, and to protect the inshore fishermen who are not using longliners, which fish greater distances from shore, they are going to need extended limits inside which fishing vessels in excess of sixty to sixty-five people will net be allowed to fish. This is a very impor~ant point. I am sorry I have got to cross over this quickly. It is essential if the small boat and the longliner fishermen are to survive. HR. NEARY: A buffer zone?

April 21, 1977 Tape 1798 (Night) PK - 3 l:1R. J. WINSOR: Sir? HR. NEARY: A buffer zone . MR. J. WINSOR: A bumper zone for the inshore fishermen, yes, and by the same token for the longliner fishermen. The sixty-five footer can come rig~t in to the mouih of Hermitage Bay or Conception Bay or anywhere else, go right dmvn to the bottom. They are not ,suppose to go within a half mile of fixed gear but they go ~.Yithin- well they take it up, they drag it away, t:verybody kno~.;s that.

I have digressed considerably from what I was intending to really talk about, the theme, the wellbeing, the economy, the future of my district. Obviously the economy of the fishery is the economy of Fortune-Hermitage. The recent petitions for the roads, I do not need to add, I have presented - the hen. member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) said he thought that that was the first petition some time ago that. I presented .. I presented dozens of petitions, They·were all in one group, and some 3,000 nam~s on them. If the roads are not done in my district it will never amount to anything.

And as I said before,the ministernas admitted that the roads, the access roads, the different kinds of roads, whatever you would call them, in my area are the worst in Newfoundland, and Harbour Breton will never prosper until that road is fully paved, and we got the proper communications bebveen the South Coast and Central Newfoundlan<; that we sho~ld h~ve, and there are other things that sho~ld be done to get the road down to Pooles Cove done, so that we can

April 21, 1977 Tape no. 1799 Page 1 - ms nr. J. Winsor. get a car ferry, another one, across Fortune Bay so that I tvill rwt have to drive the Great Northern route to get in here. I have got over 35,000 on my car and she {s not tHo years old and maybe 3,000 or 4,0(0 of that is private driving. I say the lack of communication by road is of major importance, and a couple of small ferries which I think -v;e should have)and some thought should be given by the authorities to providing those ferries for the people. ,· They are undergoing unnecessary hardship. There is no need for it.

These roads and ferry boats are a major drm·rback to the fishing industry. There ar< two fairly large plants in my area, Gaultois and Harbour Breton. The men, materials, supplies, services and fish shipments to plants and the market have to use these roads at great cost and lost time, damage to equipment and product. Necessary emergency supplies and services to keep t~e plants running and trm·llers fishing depend upon these roads. The t.¥ell-being of our communities deMand priority attention to t~is. I r:12.ke a serious appeal to the Hinister of Transportation to have a real good look and find some more money.

I understand he got some more today. At least that is tvhat I heard on the radio. He has got $20 million. I will accept half of it for Fortune- Hermitage. If the Speech from the Tl"rone means anything then nmv it is time for this government to fish or cut bait. Thank you gentlemen, thank you, Hr. Speaker. SO~fE HON. 1:-fEHBERS: Hear, hear~ ~'IlL SPEAKER: TI1e hon. membtr for Exploits . ~r. Speaker ---- SOHE HON. ~lli::!BERS: T""' ' 1 ttear, near.

DR. 'TI-!OUEY : - members of the House~I rise in diffidence because I ~mow I cannot emulate the various debating talents and the bearance of so many of the -;nemhers of this l~ouse. So I hope

April 21, 1977 Tape no. 1799 Page 2 - ms Dr . ~vomey. that you lvill bear with me and have a little sympathy for a man who cannot copy so many of you that are bright. I compliment t~e member for Fortune - Hermitage Of.r.J. t.!insor) He spoke eloquently and feelingly about his district, a district that I uas proud to Hark in so many years ago. I learned a lot about ~:rewfoundland from that district. I learned a lot about medicine. I learned a lot about human beings.

Hhen he asked for certain things in ~is speech tonight,! honestly feel that he put his finger on the pulse on the problems of his district. \Tnatever support I can give him in that is tvhole-hearted and r.Tith all the kindnessthat I can offer. I was here before Confederation, and I can look back Hi th a bird!s eye vieiV on Newfoundland, possibly at first a little detached, a little analytical. It had obviously grm .. :rn, and it has grown so much that I have made it my home, my wife and my family.

I am prm:d to represent the district of Exploits, a district that is ne1v in the history of politics in Newfoundland,but it is proud in the heritage of so many communities in that area. It is a district of approximately 13,500 situated to the North of the Exploits River and the Bay of Exploits. Over the years since Confederation- and this 1.;as one of the great blessings of our Province - a blessing that I certainly have seen and appreciated, and as I said earlier r.-1ith a bit more of detachment than many of those who were lucky enough to be born in this Province.

I thought the day would never come Hhen the Trans-Canada High~:.-ay Hould extend from Port au:.{; Basques to St. John's. Even when it was · promised I felt it tvas a pipe dream. Because at the beginning there 1·7as not a car in my district on the Southr ,.,rest Coast. There -.:.1ere feH paved miles of road be t\.;een Bot-.:.;ood and 3 ishop Falls and very, very fetv cars. Now you cannot find parking space on the !!'.ain street of Bot-.:·mod or on the ?arking lot of Price Company. Tnese have been just a few of the little things. ' . ......_ ... - -~ .J

April 2:L ,1977 Tane 1snn AT-l'-1 DR. TT..JO~~y: \"hen we look back on our schools and our hospitals, our university and some of the social services, one again can sav, ":'hank God, thank God for Confederation ·.' I well remember the schools i;t my district, those that Here so called ,large schools and good schools. They ~•ere miniscule in comparison to the schools He have at this present time. I have attended many of the graduation ceremonies in these schools from the first time I went to Botwood in 10~9 until the most recent graduation class.

I have heard the valerlictorian Speech anc I ltave noticed the progression and the eloquence with which thev have addressed their audience on that great night in their lives. I look back lvhen vie hired people for the various positions, in hospitals in narticular because that Has ~·There I had most input at that time, and ~.;e were extremely glad and extremely happy when ~ve had someone ~.;ith ~rade seven or eight and in their interview they showed their intelligence, ambition and a grasp of the situation for Hhat thev f.Janted.

And this present day and age it would be utterly impossible to get a job, even in the kitchen, if you had grade ten or eleven nm.; there is such competition and the demand is such. Again we can look at our teachers - Sm·TE RON. ~·'!EMBERS : Hear, hear!

DR • T\-70MF.Y : They have heen the ~John the Rantist' of the last quarter century because they are the ones that have led our children, taught our children~and made our children responsive to the greater patriotism of :'-Je~.;foundland"and I should say in Canada less so. ~·!e have a medical school nm.;, before that r.re had to i::L!oort-and I am one of tr1e i'1'1.ports -from Great Britain and Ireland. SOHE HON. 't-'fEHBERS: Hear, hear! Dr> .• THOTvf'E:Y : ~Tow I am extremely - . • ·-

Anri121.,1977 Tape 1800 AR-2 AN HO'i · HEl·fBER: ~e~.;foundland is the hetter for it. DR. TWOHEY: Now I am extremely proud to say that everv member of my medical staff-in fact every member of the staff in my hospital-is a Ne~.;foundlander. !~ ot alone a ~J ewfoundlander ~ but a graduate of t~e university of Newfoundland, 1-femorial i"fedical School. And I can honestly say that th~:1 have shoHed unusual ability. They are dedicated to their ~.;ork and they have a feeling of responsibility to their patients, qualtities that you have to admire in any human heing.

I need not tell you about the social services in ~Je~.;foundland" uou all know more than I do about them. P.C',d as manv of you are so much older than I am in this House of Assembly you have dealt with these various divisions freauently. That has been one of the great boons of this Province and of course with all of the things that I have mentioned it has changed the quality of life far more than we could ever expect. In

summary I feel that I have been looking at cinematngraphy done by Walt Disney as he shows beautiful flm.;ers hlooming or a chicken breaking out of an egg. In the last quarter of a century I have seen this happen in :-.rewfoundland. I should say a few words about my district. I spoke about the values of Confederation,and in speaking about my district there are thirteen communities. I am very happy and nroud that I can get up in this House tonight and speak with pride. Again there have been changes in the last five years, very definite changes,and I mention them only because time

I\Qril :n, 1977 Tape no . l~~l '"'' - l 9R . !'T.TO~!EY : orevents ne from gain~ h~ck coo long . Starti."'l~ at r.renfe l l Eeis;~tslt·:e h ave i"-een very hapnv to see a •.;ace:- system · there . :V:ost of t~e ryeo;le Hork inC-rand Palls , either the ~ape:- ::.:...!.1 or i:: o :::.er jusiness in that tot-m . Om·m in ~'iooddale , t·lhic'

f) is an entire far:ni.n~ area t·lith excellen t agrj cultural soil, They have ::1i;~~rl. :armi ng . ·\onar ently t~e:e are }0() or !.'"I" cattle in t:tc are<? . . ':acu :-al.:.y t:hev :-tee-led a slau~bter :-torlse anil I believe t ~e nea r es t one r-uts Con1e r Broo l·.. I aM ~larl to renort: th<>.t one is hein2 built no~ . As tole !nove dot·m to Bis~oo' s !='C~. lls, a verv, ver y old to~m , and I hapoened to rea~ about it in one of the boo ks about the Beothucks.

They described it as the Cli.-.lJ Arounc! t~e Fall s 7 but it \v?.s really built because of· t~e C r. l!nfo r tunately the C'J is :lha sin ~ out gradually c;o thev have to ~i.nd othe:z: "e:n~lc~,.,.~nt . 'T'~e;r find it in Grand Fall$ !t is recot'1in!! - 1 should :tot sa'· a satellite totom ~ but i t is a town -tha t has many diverse occupations for its people. T~ey have a ne~·T •..rater suoplv t:,ere , a net: : orescrv buildin~ , a n.e~·' scaditr'l , T~~ scaciu:::_,vecy attracti ve an~ verv f rom the ccnent - !!~ve t~ey r.-ut <". na"!le on it y~ t? Yes, t~e ~ishop ?alls stadi~ .

As we leave ijishop ralls we co~e on to Bocwood , called 2..:tzr , I c;,ink , a Cannon '1o c uoo~. . !c is the 1)0:-~ ~C"r t'1e :-: ~o-e Eron t~ere co all t~e ~~rts of t~e wo~lci . a-r.d ::i.efin inv, exr-ort t '1eir ore . A n~~her of t~~ oi~ c~ n~nies i.'i!lcrt thei:- oil. So ~-.'e !)ave a nt"ctty active -,o:-<: . I car.n o r: ~ el2.. y::w . ~ .· . . .)

Anril 21, 1';77 Taue ~~o, 1801 :; f - 2. : R. :'1?0' fEY : ~o~·l mar:7 ships came in in t~e lc>.st year '.Jut I think there were ~ell over fifty and of large tonnage, It is presentlY userl., h:· the Search and Rescue rnit \•Thich again has s;iven a little trade to the tor,m, 1\.nd ho~efullv it 'vill '::>e us~d~as I have tried 7 and I have ~·rrit ten to the various oil coM.nanies in the hones that the~T ':vould set un their headquarters in that particular tmm. It has an excellent port, safe and C.een \·:ater.

In Bot,vood '.ve have ~ecn fortunate <.vi t:1 ungradins; of the roads, a new urban develonment area, which if it is develoned to its fullest Hill have about :?.00 ne\v J,uildinp: sites and a place for a mall. As \ve move on to Northern Arm, Phillips Rend, Point au I3ay, these 1.ave their work in the rJoods, Their \¥ork is carnentry and as na::t- time fishermen, r,;e have built ne\·1 roads throug;h t'he tm·m. TJe move on to Pleasar..tviev7, 'Point Leaminczton, there t~ere is an onS'!.oing development of the community \¥<?.ter and se1;rerage.

A new road has been built from 3otw,:.od to Point Leamington, a ne\•7 housing develon::1.ent in Point Leamin9:ton, Ther..- ue Tiove on to the other communities which have been paved to Fortune Earbour, Cox's Cove, Leading Tickles and Glovers Harbour. Leading: Tickles is probably the big~?;est fishing community in our area. They are traditional fishe~en, :,ard c?Orkin~. Last year their catch '"as high and anparently t!-!eir earnings s<1.tisfactory.

They are looking; for. ancl I :-:.ooe I can ("et, an ice nlant, It ~vould be of tremendous value to these fishermen and to the 0uali::v of the fish t:l.at is shinned fro'!' t'-,_,,_t arec,. There are a fe~ other thin~s needed in the ~istrict. 1 will mention but one,and that is t~e upgradin~ of our roads to T."ortune Farbour, Bot-::·rood Cove, ClovP.rs F<>xt-our, LeaC.in<; ~ic.1.·.les, .:i.. . i-

!.':77 3 !)~ . TFO'.r;:"~ : A~art from t h.atj3ctuood has great tourist ooc:ential . Gre~r "D,iver.> at Bishoo :'alls, a ve-:::' successful SI)Orts fishin~ a:.-ea for sal"1on . As you~ come down t~e -:-:. ver , ;:me vou c<:tn traverse it by canoe an~ small b"ac:.you ~~t on : o the Bay of F.Tiloits . ~ou can ski - doo on it: in t!1e ::inter . In the Sunmer just as the icebe r gs cone i~ you can sail around wi t h remarkable ease , you can take pictu r es of these ice~er~s as t~ev ~el t. !ou w:.ll see All k!n~s of ~rt scul~tu :.-e ~ by :at~:.-e, t :.-acitional, ~o~ernis : ~c , an~ so on . :\s the ice Melts in t '1e Sl.!Ir,rcer t:,ev tel~. me there a re a thousand islands -·-

T3-l that one can sail or cruise around; that one can go clor,m tC' Leacinp !ickles to the beautiful hills. In the Sprin? -run-offJuhen the. ·Fc>.ter cnTTles clown to the sea fro!"'. its h.ome in the !!1ount<lins, it :is iust a t~ous<>.n~ casc<tclinp- funneJ s. In the SuMner there are ]ar.?e 2.r1.cl pleasant Hooded areas to Halk in. 'T'here is boatin~. 'i'here are so111e ancient tomhs of the P.eothncJ.-s on SHan Island fn Exr.Joits ancl at the estuary of the Exploits. so nn,~ut I wilJ not hnre ynu. Thank you verv ~uch f0r the rrivilepe Y.ADA.11 SPEA.TZER: The han. member for BPllevue. >m_.

CALLAN: I ~uess I say ~~rs. Speaker, or """adane as the French HOUld say. Actually I ~id not intend to go tn?if-ht. I thought my friend fr.oTTl 1'\;:de Verte-Phite 3av (1'r. r>ideont) r,Tas goi.ng to go tonight but anv~·7R-:" ~e is not here so I HjJl h?.ve Cl. few T·!Ords,T gness. The first thin~ t should say, I thin~, is of course that · 1 am sure r,,e are all hanpy to see the !"1etr.her for St. r'eorge 1 s ("rs. ~rAcisaac) in the r:ha:ir. J think this is nr.obab.lv not the first tir-.e 1 I clo not think, the second tiTTle.

And listening to the pentle!Tlan, the noctor frnm Fxploits ~ith the colourful lanpua~e and the phrases e.nd express~ons tbAt he r,•e1s usin~, ~·'e could not heJp but be<" little hi.t enthralled a.nr1 a littJ e ~it impresse0 YJj th what he ha..-'1 to sav. I am sure that all hon. memhers concur t-lith me ~v-hen I sAy that he j s a !Mr_ 'vho cc"!l1Ir.ands the respect ancl. perhaps the este?.t" of 2J 1 han. !"'eT"hers. ..:Is a 1"'1<>-tter Qf fa.ct, tfac!aw.e ~peaker, th?. l?entleman has t"h"" oro. tor t!-l.:1t he is, Rnd tl-,e ser.ond reason is thfl t •.flef' T 0o aet e.

T'rnble!"S thc>t T see in the r~str;ct P-n~ 0tber thi.ncrs v"ich T !"P.'l ] i,. ,_.,..,,,,_. ...... .. . )

IF-2 rat~er not talk ahcut. It is a '.Jit li'lte perl-.acs 1-.ut t Pant to congratul-?.te t~e T:"e1:1l--er for F:xnJoHs (nr. 'T'~··o!rey) on h:is election at'.d the member for n.onavi sta ::orth U'r. rross) on h:i.s r.e-e] ect:f 0n to this :1 ous e. Fadm'le SpeaJ.;er, a numl.Jer of intere~ting- thin~s r,ave happened

April 21, 1977 Tape no. 1803 Page l - ms ?-1r . Collins. after the House adjourned last June, between the time that it adjourned last June - and I think it was around the 15th of June - and until it reopened - <vell actually in ~~ovember and. then on the 2nd. February - a number of interesting things hctppened. He smv the administration add a couple of seats and, of course, the~ they lost one that they already had in the resignation for Ottawa.

On this side of the House 7 we saw the addition of the member for Ferryland, but that did not last too long unfortunately, because again I think he was a member who commanded the respect of most hon. members no matter what their party affiliations were. One other interesting thing happened, ~. Speaker, Hadam Speaker - this is a little bit difficult to get used to. rfR. ROBERTS: No, no, rrr. Speaker, is correct. NIL CALLAJ.'1': ~-J'ell, I see. :vell nobody - nm-1 I have it correct.

Another interesting thing happened cvas that not only did '"e add seats to the Liberal Party on this side, as a result of the election at Ferryland, but perhaps I should not say it, but I '\·Jill, I think I started- I, at least, perhaps '\vas the instigator in having three additional seats • I moved on September 14 to the Liberal Party for reasons that I gave publicly and that I still stand by, and even though I was criticized at the time for doing so by some people, these very same people, some of then made the same move a couple of months later Hhich proved beyond any shadow· of a doubt, of course, I suppose, that I had done the right thing in t~e beginning.

SOHE: HON . ~.!EN::SERS: Hear, hear: ?·fr. Speaker, I hardly knm·7 ho'\v to address myself to the Speech from the Throne. Former speakers l1ave conder.med t he goverr.I!lent for its ac tion.s. In last June Is c·y-elec tions \Jha t happened there

April 21,1977 Tape no. 1803 Page 2 - ms ~fr. Callan. former speakers, previous speakers, have condemned the government for the ~vay they spent money in P. C. districts and, of course, left the Liberal districts, most of whic~ ara rural districts , with lack of funds for water and sel·Ier and for the improved roads and all the other things that I, at least, a,nd other members as \vell ~I am sure,thought that they >:7ould get . Previous speakers have talked about the abuse of the tendering system, and this has gone on for the last couple of months.

He have heard about the uild goose chases in Europe and, of course, we had another ~vild goose c~1ase in Europe or we hope it was not but it appears to be regarding the Come By Chance refinery. Just a couple of weeks ago we had another ~~pedition to Europe. I1:r. Speaker, ~.;re have heard about the wild goose chases, and we have heard about the >vild partridge chases, and the Hild moose chases and so on here in our own Province.

He have heard about the empty promises, and we have heard about the empt~ chest, a debt that has tripled in five years and nothing to shmv for it, nothing but unemployment and closed plants like the one at Come By Chance,and the one at Stephenville closed most of the time. In the Speech from the Throne, ~1r. Speaker, we heard about, Let the word go forth, and we heard about the blueberries and so on. !·1R. FLIGHT: The bakeapples. HR. CALLA.i'J: We have heard about these before . iP~v-ious -speaks have also condemned .-· · · ..... . .-.·

April 21, 1977 Tape 1804 Pk - 1 MR. CALLAI.'l': Previous speakers have also condemned the government for not only its actions, but its inactions, procastinations. I have talked about that in some of the short speeches that I have made on the Late Show on Thursday afternoons. We heard that the Minister of Mines and Energy,who is not in his seat tonight, failed to have applied for the subsidy that P.E.I. and Nova Scotia are receiving. We heard about the lack of action over the linerboard mill, as I said, and the Lower Churchill, Come By Chance. Lack of action - MR. FLIGHT: The Lower Churchill , $70 million. MR.

CALI.k.~ : - even whether or not to continue with the De~artment of Social Services or to phase it out.~his government brought it in - Al.'l' HON. MEMBER: What? Al.'l' HON. MEMBER: Is that true? Is that a fact? MR. CALLAN: We heard that last year. Finally we have an Acting Ninister looking after it now. Mr. Speaker, from where I sit the government is a study in contradiction. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. CALLAN: On one hand we see them procrastinating,and they are not doing things that they should be doing, and on the other hand we see them rushing into doing things that they should not have done.

Sm1E RON . MEMBERS : Hear, hear! AN HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. CALLAl.'l': Churchill Falls is an example of that. AN HON. M&~BER: The Lower Churchill. MR. CALLAI.'l': And the Come By Chance Refinery perhaps could have been kept opened, we have heard previous speakers suggest that. Do not be negative, do not be negative~is what the Speech from the Throne said, and we have heard it, Do not be negative. Mr. Speaker, I do not see how ~.;e can be any other way but negative. \.Je heard the hon. gentleman from Bon avis ta North (Mr. :ross) when he moved - what was it? - .~ .: - .:.,. ·_)

April 21, 1977 Tape 1804 PK - 2 Al.'i HON. MEMBER: The Address in Reply. MR. CALLAl'l: The Address in Reply to the Speech from the Throne. And the man got up and he bragged, boldly bragged about all the money that was spent in his district, and of course, we know what it was for, and why it was done and so on. And it frustrates me, you know, especially \vhen a man stands up in this han. House and says, you know, four water and sewer projects going on at the same time; five roads projects. The member for Lewisporte (Hr.

White) in an earlier speech told us that of the fifty water and sewer projects that were turned dmm last year, last Spring, forty were in Liberal districts, and ten in P.C. districts, and of the sixty-two that were - MR. ROBERTS: Shame! Shame! MR. CALLAN: - approved fifty-five '"ere in P. C. districts, and seven in the Liberal districts. HR. FLIGHT: What an indictment! MR. RIDEOUT: Shame! MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker, these things, you know, these facts cannot help - Al.'l RON. MEMBER: Oh, oh! MR. CALLAN: - but make me and other han. members)I am sure;negative. AN RON. MEMBER: ~t with it, 'Jerry'. AN RON.

MEMBER: Fow can we be anything else? AN HON. MEMBER: You have just got to live with it. MR. RIDEOUT: Pangs of conscience , 'Jerry'. MR. SPEAKER (MRS. ~~CISAAC): Order, please! ~1R. CALL..AN: This government has been a study and contradictions. They have procrastinated on several hands, and on the other· hand they have gone ahead, boldly gone ahead. Mr. Speaker, what we saw happen to the legislative seats in this Province since this Administration took over in 1972, it is shocking. AN HON. MEMBER: It is shocking. MR. CALLk'l: It is shocking.

April 21, 1977 Tape 1804 PK - 3 AN."HON. :1-lllillER: It is terrible. HR. CALLA.L"l': The adding of seats in PC strongholds, that is shocking. AN RON . ~1EHBER : A disgrace. MR.. CALLA..~ : The adding of seats when we did not need any extra seats. HR. NEARY: Frankiemandering. MR. CALLAN: MR. MORGAN: HR. FLIGHT: MR. CALLAJ.'l': AN HON. HEMBER: MR. CALLAN: MR. MORGAN: MR. CALLAN: MR. RIDEOUT: We have had hon. members on the other side - You would not be here if ~e did not have to add seats. Gerrymandering. I would be here. No,you would not. That is what I would be here. Only for the gerrymandering.

I would be here representing Trinity South. And the hon. member from Harbour Grace (Mr. Young) would not be here only for the LRP. MR. YOUNG: MR. RIDEOUT: AN RON. MEMBER: 1:-fR. FLIGHT: MR. RIDEOUT: HR. CALLA..'!' : AN RON • MEMBER: MR. RIDEOUT: MR. CALL&'!' : Is that so? Yes. That is right. That is right. Just look at the figures. The adding of ten seats, Mr. Speaker, - St. John' s East. Yes, I know. The adding of ten seats in PC stronghold. Mr. Speaker, you know, the largest riding, the largest seat in this Province - MR. FLIGHT: Is Windsor-Buchans. MR. CALLAN: - is not the PC seats at all. MR.

RO:SERTS: Baie Verte-White Bay. HR. CALLAN: The largest one is in Conception Bay South, the largest population. Al.'l' RON . f-JEMBER: Eleven seats.

Tane :To. 15305 The one t:lat is lar3est <-ts re~P.r2s ~o co2!"'.unities is represented ~y the Lea~er of the Opnosition. Pell reDresented,too, 'T .. C\LU.' ·T: The one that is lar~est geo~raphically is !'S'1resented bv the i!le!".ber for Ea~le ?.iver ('"'r. Str~chan), the menber for F.a~le f!.iver, tl-,_e lar~est C!:eoq;ranhically. ur. Speaker, if anyhody just took it and loo\ed at it, it ~as a case of ~here,as I said,the governTT~ent rushed =thead on 0r1e han-::1, to r:l.o SIJ"':!ethi:19: that ~·~c:u1ld re-£nsure re-election. "uin t!-,_e nrovince. Fhat for? \fuy?

If they were doing anythin~, if the adrn.inistration ::ad done anything - ~~r. Sne2.ker, I \-ras lookin~ at a naner a fe<:v nights a~o and I sa'v there tl:le l!!.Otto or the t~1e..'I\e of that paper, an old p!'o~.;erb actualJ.v,"lf r.;e abuse power we loose it, But if r,ve do not use it T.-Je r,rill also lose '~r. Spea~·:er, the only reason tl:lat r.•e hc>.ve the present administration here in ~ower is beca~se of that redistribution which added PC, or seats in strongholds.

Because there is no question about it in anybody's ~ind - '<n i. ·.··-· "F1IGET: Gerrycnandering. •.m .!..:""• • - cvho lool:s at this administration t:1at they have ahused the po<-Jer thc.t was given to them by the neonle. ''ffi.. FLIC-ET: And misused t~e confidence, ~-LR. CALLAN: And of course in the cases where they did not use it they have a.lso lost it. ~~r. Speaker, actually rv-hen you ta.::.k ,1.bout a deTT~ocratic society and a democratic system~this ad~inistration has lost ;10~-1er an:r·ray.

T":-l.ev only received fort?-six Per c:~r. t of t:1e , ,rry ~L IGtiT : That is r:i.g~t. \.ALL/1.?-T: T~at is not a ~aiority of the neonle in this Province.

.-\ p r il 2l , l 9 77 Tane ':o. 1'305 ,,.._. - 2 C::AL! ... :VT: That is because the seats '"ere gerryncmdered and redistributed t!-le \vc=ty that they 'lvere. ~ f"? . • FLI(;RT! A minoritv ~overnnent. ?ut the LT."'..? in~ UC?_. FLIGHT : You are a minoritv government, and vou r.;ill not admit it. ' [TI. C":ALLN·T : :\~r, ~Dea~-:er, the ~est examnle I sunnose tl:.~t I could take of the :'1iS11Janagenent and everyt:1in::;; else th2t could be said about this g;overnment, I '·?ant to tell a li.ttl.e story. I \vas going to tell a funny story just nm·7~ but an;r'"-Vay I will tell another one.

The first time that I sa>v the Premier in Derson, and the Premier is not in his seat, Hhich is rather strange really.- ~-'R.. ::'LIGHT: He is in Ot ta·pa, 'fr? •• CALL\~1: - but the first time I sav; that nan i!l nerson ;.Jas over - and of course I saw the member for Harbour Grace in person at the same time, it uas durin~ the Summer of - HR. RIDEOTJT: l,?,1at an unfortunate coincidence. It >vas during the Summer of 1974 and as - At a funeral. ?'"R • CALLAN: No, but the hon. member for Harbour Crace (~fr. Youno,) was making iokes about funerals as he usually is ,I am told.

But I ~-ms in Harbour !';race, Sneaker, attending one of these big- :\~T F0N. "-ffi~ffiER: PC - ~ffi.. CALLA~!: :-To, ones of these big hashes. T.et the hon. member lister~ and he ~ -rilJ. '?;et t::e t!:''..lt::. I \·las attenC.in~ one of ~:1esC' hi~ ~as h es, cPe of these :.,ig !"arti.es and C".an:-·r of, I rio not 1-:nm..r ho~-7 '"1any, tlut en:>: ens of Phich \vere 1-,eld during 1974. And for the benefit of t1-·te r1.e~ber for Parbour Grace, 0f cnurse, 197 !+ Has the T,,renty-fi fth ,>\nniversar.y of our entry intn. r.onfeder?.tion. . - .. . :.. ~-:!:

-"r.>ril 11, 19 77 'f'l - 3 '·~ • CALLA: ~ : t~e mayor of t~e ~unicif'.:>.l gove rnment at \"!or!T!en 1 s C-ove, ."'\.:.!.rl I '"as there in ti-J~.t caoctcity as most of the !:leon:!.e \•T:1o ··rera t h ere ~.Jere ~enrese~tin~ tow-n councils <.1nd !'>O on . ("r. Yonng) there in a~r!iticm to t he r>re"1ier ·, ~u t ::::;o s~ould be seated at t~e head ta ~ l e next to t~e Premier was '!:,at is \~:her e. ~he sell - out '·:C!s ~nee . 'f1) C.ALLA'! : And , \{r .

Sneaker, I re!'lemt>er t':.at f-ecause h ~re T r-:ras t-mncerin g r,;hy all t !'-.is money - ~ . ttiDE0UT : The lo<:>.n Has arranS<ed in rrar.hour Gr~cP.. - ·-·as r..e in.~ ~-.r?.. sted ~.,h en over in 'Tortlan 1 s Cov e t he council that I heade d ,.,as lool :in!'! fo-r t.rater and se~·;er and ther e t..ras no money for t..rater and se~·7er , and :-tere tve '..:e.re ~-last:i.r, g t housands of dollars on a useless oart:• . You shouJi ~ave asked - :I? . C.d.Lk'\.:! : Or better still, '.rr .

Soe<=.l·.er, :;>.t that sa::1e ti::1e for !:ive and r.. h:>.lf -.r-=ars .-;,s a ;'!'.~tter of f~ct, ~win?. b.; C:.~ to l:'7l,I ~-:as "resi cl.ent of t he Trinity - Placer..tia Stad ium Cor:!..~ission a.-vi I :·vlld t :1at !)osi tion until I resiGnee a year after I hecame a me:-ber of this House , I r~sir;ne d because the stadium t hen r,;as nearly cocm le te , or Has al.tnost reaci.y to ~ove into . It is not·;) '?v c ~e ;-:ay, one _ of t he :!!ost ::>uccessful stadi'llrr!S on t~e Island , a s~adiuin c~at :.;oulc not ~-ior:~~ it did ::at have the not'ulation and all t h e ot~er cl'!ings th.::tc t~e

~~ril 21, 1077. 7a~e 1~06 . Paq9 l - -aD~ last ?all into o~eration. tl1i:1!-.:ing, :rr. Spea}:cr 1 as I sat there: \Yha t a r!".onunen t the goverrll--:lent coulc~ ~1ave created. ~hat a re8orial to t!1e T~·Icnt~y-Fi=:th Anniversar::t of Con£'ederat.ion. r: tt;_at ::tor~ey that •.-tas 1-1asteC:. or:. these silly ~arties li~:e t:1e cne in Earbour Grace had l een ?Ut into the stadiun at r-Thi tbourne or sone other '.mrth-•Jhile project. :B. YOU~TG : You ~·:ill not }.:;e invited ac_;ain. :m. CALU.l.l: ~ ~r.

S~ea~:er, ':I hen I sa<;·J - the rrezt -- ··-- - ·-- time- that was back in 1974, an~ the Pre~ier was ~~sting 2oney then - :IR. FLIGI:'I': Ee is still wasting- it. : !R . CALLA:J : - and he and the Pre.r.:1ier of Alberta were laughing together. 11R. RIDEOU'!': All the way to the bank. :·-1::(. FLIGf ·IT ~ '!'hey are still laucrhinr· . :m. CALLAI1: A month ago, '1r. S0eaJ~er, I sa•:I together for the second tine,on national television. The Premier v!as laughing again.

Borrowing $50 million for a Province that is in the hole. '!'we and a cruarter ~illion dollars in the hole, $2300 million in the hole and we are still borrowing- ~1R. FLIGHT: They were laughing at Joe Clark. - borrowing so that we can snend nonev on by:-elections. '-1R. RIDEOUT: There will be some more of those parties this year, you know, the 0ueen's ~wenty-Fifth .!"'..:l!'!i "!.tersar"'l. £ r~. FLIGET ~ Yes. ~m. ~I:UEOUT: There will be ~ore this year. 11 If '.·Je abuse !lm•1er \·:e lose it. =ut if i:_Te do not use it, r:.""e ~·.rill a.lso lose it.\' 'Y'es, ~-~.r.

Soea}-er I ':ihen I think back to that night in r:arbour Grace .... ,. .,. ~)

April 21, 1977, Taoe 1306, Page 2 -- anb ~-1R . CALLAiJ : and the Ukrainian dancers w~o were brought in there to perforr .. SON:S EOH. :1E~13ERS ~ Go on! Go on! ':'ut, tut, t.ut! .':R. RIDEOUT: Brought in from the Unraine? '!R. FLIGFT: T~o and-a-hal~ million dollars. ~1R. CALLAN~ No, from Alberta. HR. FLIGHT: Two and-a-half million dollars! :1R. CALLAN : I got up in this Eouse, ~1r. S~eaker, and I suggested ho'"" the governrrtent - :IR. RIDEOUT: Eas ·~r. Doodv' Minister of Finance then? ~-!.R. FLIGHT: Two and-a-half million dollars for, for - : IR . CALLA~,J : I got up in this Eouse, '1r.

ST)ea.ker, and I suggested some make-work projects - and I have been laughed at - and here ~·Je sa"' a month or tt\7 0 ago the same govern111.ent at its 'I.·Tits end_. at its ':rits end doincr the thing that they criticized for years, things like LIP nroj ects and Canada ::arks, and the 0FY and the other thins-s. Mr. Speaker, it is interestinr to listen to the gentleTian fro!Cl. the Bay of·Islands (Hr. ~Ioodro"tv) . Practically every ti2e he sneaks he talks about fifty-one districts. I do not }:noH v1ha t the man is thinking about, ~1r. Sneaker.

W~en he talks about his own district he says, 0f course, I do not expect to get all that ~oney, there are fiftv-one districts. Pr. SneaJ-:er , there are not fifty-one districts looking for water ~nd se'.-'ers. There are not fifty-one districts , 1 0 ..LOOr:lnr; :':or ~etter wharves and ~etter roads. You can r;ri te eleven 0 ' 0 rlcr:1~ a-:: JJat tl1at are :J o I1:1 ' s seats . ~ n .

CALL..'~.: T : You can write of~ eleven in ~t. ~o~n's o , a.nr: ".:'OU can '".,.rri t~ of£ t~.-ro 7tore i:1 Corrter ~roo~:,. ar..d 't.rou. o:f one ,.,.,_ore i.::: :Jeer La~:e, :=u::d ~'OU C3.n '':rite o~~ cne 2orc: in Gr·"'l.n::.1 ?3.lls, ?on;J ?ou can ;orrite cf-: one r-·.ore in

~ore i~ G an~er, a~e ycu can writ~ o~~ o ~ e ~o re ~~ So r.av i s ta r anC::. "C:.l car'. · ir i te o ": !': one ::ore i::. Clarenv i llc . ,\1:-ost •·.ri tl:.out f::ce;tior. a_l o:: t:--.e u rban a r eas c:: ~::is t ::e g ove rn..D.en t , i.r: the !? • C ' s . ~ ::.at i nclud es i:tcludes ~!arnou:- : :a i~ t eo . '!~ . J . the Jo~~'s se ats are aea- COC).St . Seacoast? Yes, so · ·r ~ilt ? I an not ~3l k inq a0out s eacoast I a~ tal ~ing about the urban a r eas o£ this Province - . ' ·'?- . DOODY : Sell Island. . ' :R .

CALIJl _r; : - '-''here the\, d o ~o~ nee-:!. ':rate r and ':" ~1ey are not f i0!':ti:1CJ ~or r.-ra ter an::i s m·Te r, or be tter u~1 arves , o r ~;etter roads, nave..rr.ent, artesian '.;ells.. s ;:1 :n,.-.i :;,c ""~ Ools: :'1lavgrou nds . ~1r . So ea ker , hm·! !"'an y tir: tes.,I Fo ~ C::.e r"'~ !1ave I heard the adr.'.inistra tion criticizin<] 0 tta\.ra . :ie car.:1ot g et a.:1y :--.ore ~oney out of O tt.::.~·:a . :!r .

S:· e~}:er .. !f!..':! que stion is , " ':lhy t ehol ces t t hou t:,e 1::-ea':l t ~at :..s in t ~y b rother's eye and s eeth not the mote t!lat is i n t h ine mm eye,t hou hypocrite. 11 :IR. ?LIG E'!': i.;or c, Eynoc:-ite . Thou hy!Jocrite . •, :) ~. - .}

Tape 113'"'7 IB-1 "Firsr cast out the ote of hine oFn eye ann hen sba _ 1: LOll see clearl ~' to cast out the hea - of t . b -rot e"~:"' s eve> . . ! r;u:r: The tne!"'ber "'c:>r r:rancl F'a.l J s ( ' r. I nncr · ?'an) is ac . ~<T> T,l . '0 r.£.:1: l• re :"ou talking a'out yourself O'·r? ·r. ~~eaker, to~av I snove for ive or. six nutes Cln t!-e F1er.t:iC"n Act and ~ol h.?. t ~ave you . It T£as p.?.tr. et ~. c to rea r .Jnh . rrosb: .e CCl.,.pl.:dnJnp. ahout t!:'e election system 'tvhen he '·'as se al) the:r lives, sowe of e fifty and sixty yea rs clrl t-:i">0 belen£ .

P:..o J.i ve o lt in be dist rict of ~ellevue -;ho t•'or+ here .'n St. Joh 1 s a cl o1ho t-'ere tC"J , "Take off your hats and taJ<-e off anything that miJtht be on .our piclr - u1J tl-tat would s . ow t h e naJ"e of our COI!!Pa v. I t?.n t you o ta\re tb.E>se a!'!!lf f post.ers a.nd .o aronnd ~- - Jot:n 1 S '~stand nai ! t ~ rn on the pnles . to~av instead of c!o · ? t~e cRrpen er I· orJ.: anrl the construct ~on FO!'K de, l' hP. _i o t ltat "<H1 <t re supvosecl to ;..,e -:orJrin!! on. Yo ,20 arou ·ncl a'l}d nail these st · c~ers on thE'! tele.~Tap b t:>oJ es aroun · S-t .

John 1 s . ,. 1'hev .ad no othPr choice . I- t. ey re f n ~>e <' I ~u ose they t('\U c! ave p.otte . irecl . 0 c-n. ca. t l-:at be talren care o~? Oh oh~ ~- !"!:! . F'LIGR'l': "'hey say John eros ' i e i s tre hes ~ erera! r;e.moer t.re ever haC! a P. r. federaJ . el'T'her "'e ever had . ''T' • LT1 now cot"e you never ·cast a S:,ad ow ou there . You t•.'ere here for t we tv - hree years . r. e •-rere., t .ere fnr t•-•entv - three ears . · ere J...,ere "1'. r~ .

L;I · : at east for t~o vears on s~~ternher 1~. -... ev "e I? nnt so . j tt1e~ 'Jo'b.nr. 'e' . ~·'l' I.T ':i "r> I r. ;{ : ~e an i n fro Pt of ynu -·;os here for n ··eptv - r:bree ---

.'\prH 21, 1977 T<1pe 1807 IB-2 years, the cistinguisrec ve ~ic a ~oo~ jo~ in the twenty-three years.too. ~rat is r:i ~h t . r:e h~0 Othe.T !"10Tf? irr.Dortant thin?-S to cl0 than .£ro sauaking lil:e that. I"T' • ~"'AT .LAY: 0 t ta~.:ra, 1-'r. Sp~al<-er, g-ets the h lc!"!e. You tai k to the sj 1 ent if no other Ht:~v, tH s administration also b 1 aJT",es ntta1 ,ra for the va~e ancl price controls. .Sut hoF JTlany people - t rr.> P PYF' CWT : Thev _iumpecl on tl:e band wagon pretty fast. ., rt> I.LFT : 'T'hey jun:ped <'n the bane 1-raron.

Peonle soon forget that. '!'hey c1 o not realize that the "inj ster of ronsu~er ."-.ffa:frs is the watchdog a~ prices in this Province. He does not expect '"'1y cloes 'le not co it? rive ne facts and fiFUres, J,e says. Brin? in signed documents and I 1-Jill Joot· c>t the'!:'. ~he fisheries scanclal. gon~er ·~v we do not get nore rnoney fcom nttm -ra. 'T'l,e fjsheries sc<'!-rt4c>J .. ~he sa!'1e man is nm·J ~-' inister of Hea] th. ~ ·r.

Speaker, I hear~ a stn:tn~e one a counle of days ago. nut in Chc:10el ArT" thev h::tve a ~37,n()() I.IP o-nmt to hniJc a 1creah:-'atel' there, a combination hre?l--Hater and ~·rharf, S)7 ,0()() brouR:ht dor.-rn fror-1 0tta.~·'2 and they rave to pay close to ~ 1 ,nnn to the provincial governrent. 0ut of that :)37,000 the provincial governT"ent are Joo]rjnp for $l,Or"l') instead of l-;elpin~ ~Ji th this nroiect. ::rna] J ,..r;;'.ft 1T2rbonr has t'--!rcwn in an extra ~10,onn . ~.ut the provjncja1 g:overnTT1ent t·'P.!"tS ~1,!Jfl0, .

"-.nd tile "inistPr of Forestry is l2t1p-hi.nr>. vn r -'IT..!. -~- ;.r : '"' IT. r:r.PT: :\nd so the? r:>?.v in ~ l ,rvlf: to the orovinci ::o.J ncrar rrn~nt 0f Forestry fo~ st1tnr2oe. "' "·· _}

Tnpe. 1807 IB-2 years, t~e ~istinguished - ;\ m FT..J I r1-~T : Pe ~i~ a Poo~ job in tte twenty-tbree vears.too. thj_ngs to Cl"' t!'an !!O saual-:in? li):e that. ''T'. ~"ALL\::-7: 0 tta~,'a, ~·r. Spe~.ker, g-ets the h1cl'"e. You ta]k to t~e silent if no other way, this arlministration a]so blaMes nttawa for the FaR;e ancl nrice controls. '3ut ho~-7 lT'any people - They jumped on the band wagon pretty fast. 'T'hev jurped 0n the hand Pa!!on. People soon forget that. :'hey c'o not rea} ize that the ~f}nj ster of ronsur:er ;\ffajrs is the r.-7atchdog o.,.., pri_ces in this Province.

Be C:oes not expect r71-cy c1oes he not co it? rive !'le facts and fifures, he savs. '"' VL ICH'T': Brin? in signed c1ocurr.ents and I r.-Til~ loolr ~-t thew. none~r frail" 0ttm·ra. "'1'e fisheries scanr<aJ.. r:'l"T''l:::OF"!': -~~~-------- "'he saTT1e nan is nm·r Minister of HeaJth. ~'1' \ M_.LAN : ~·r.

Speaker, I hearr a stran?e one a couple of <ic>.ys aR:O. nut in lhanel lTl'" thev ri'l.VE' a 'i37,n!')n LIP ;.rrant to "ui1c1 a creahrater there, a combination 0re?h7ater and Fharf, S l7, 11n0 br01u!ht ~-m·rn frol"' Otta~·TCl and they ra,re to pay close to ~ 1 , 11''\n to the provincial go•Jernl"'ent. nut of that S-'37,000 the- provincial governT"!ent are lookin_!" for $1,01!1) instead of l,elpir.p. ,,d_th thjs nr0iect. ~maJJ rraft 1Tarbcmr has tf1rcwn in an extra S10,000. ;~_nc! the "inistPr of' "'ores try is lattP"hinr. ,,., n_,-r:r.F'T': . - .-,. "L ._i

1'.;>oe 1 °()7 Tod~v T ~.~ a ca1) f r om Rnrther Pentle~an ~n the ~is~ rict . Fe ~as a couple rf t~otts t'l rtcl ro11C!n' frrr- the fecle :--al rovern~~nt t~ huiJ~ i'l litt 1 e playsrou~cl ~or ~~S ~oy ' s club an~ ~e u~s ~onin~ tO Pet the '1e!:lart .,..,ent ('\r ?Jigi":•.-:ays tr clo ~C're tmr !c ~nr 1-:);t' . ~as .r:hev ··ill co i:: but it will cost bi~ S30" . ~.R . FLI GHT : ~31)'1 . ur . Spea~e r , I do not knnP if ! shoul~ 20 Yef", hoy. r·'hy nnt? encl, clow"n in n; lclo r ove, nn 1'11oney r h,.re . T~e ~it of ~nneu th~t is th~ r e, ' "r . Sp~al'~:>r, is created - "?. lot of it in une!"pJ.ovrPnt 'nl=u r ance i~ cr eatecl hv t~e fi~herren

Auril 21,1977 Tane AH-1 ~-· CALL~!: and the~ go out and t~ev sell to the plants there. 0ne fisherman in Dildo has $37 ,0()0 cvorth of ba.rrelled mackerel sitting on his •..rharf ever since last FA.ll - no sale for it. A man v7ho employed dozens of men and women last summer. A lot of them of course cvere only employed for eight weeks and t!:len r,Tere laid off and ·so on ,and t::.ey dreH their unemployment and then another few were taken on. This is happening all over t~e Province. It is a good trick I suppose, in a way.

It is almost like the trick that the provincial government is pulling; by - you kno~v, by having Ottawa pay out unemnloyment rather than t!:le orovincial g:overnnent !)aying "relfare ~v-hich would come directly from this Province. Hr. Speaker, in Old Shop we have a LIP grant - I do not know what the people in the district of Bellevue, especially around Come By Chance, Arnolds Cove, Sunny Side an awful lot of those people do'im in Rillviet-7 and all that area - I do not knor,v hmv many people would he on cvelfare if the federal • government v7as not as generous. A:.'\1 RON. HEMBER: Thank God for LIP. MR.

CALLAN: I sent a letter to every household in the district of ~ellevue not too long ago,Mr. Speaker, and I ' explained to them about the water and sewer just the way it was explained by the member for Lewisporte. And I also said I wanted to sav how pleased and happy I am over the number of LIP grants that ~ ·1ere awarded in the district of Bellevue this year. There were thirty-five applications sent from twentv- three communities in the district; twenty-one applications were approved creating employment and needed facilities in t':·rentv communities. As I sav, Mr.

SDeA.!'er, the LIP grant in ('ld S'lon and i.n Come J3y Chance and in 1/hitbourne and '~arJ.-:land and Normans Cove and Chapel Arm and Goobies and North Harbour . .., ~ - · .. ~

<"~nril 21,1?77 Tape 181J8 AE-2 ~1R. CALLA~T: and Hill vier,; and Hatchet Cove and St. Jones ~,Tithin and Hodges Cove and ~Torth Hest Brook J if these LIP ~rants T,?ere not there - I think perhans 1 in one way of looking at it, it is oer~ans a hit unfortunate - that thev were aporoved~in one '\.rav of loolr.in!Z at it.

I had a call today from one of the mayors from the district and I told him that if it was not for those LIP ?rants and other federal monies like S 120.00 '\vharf ~•hich is now heing huilt in Southport and other '""larfs here ar1d there ',arid nest office extensions and netv- cost offices, ifthese litile iobs, these two jo~s were not on the go I would say t 11.e neople t·muld be ottt in the streets and the scene created by the \.Jaterford strikers '\vould be a small scene indeed, I think, compared. 'tvfr.

Speaker, I '\.rould like to he able to say some nice things~ but what is there to say ? :'Tot one water and se'\.;er oroject was anproved for the district of Bellevue last vear. r.·.Je have been after it in Normans Cove for six vears ., and ':·lhere ci.id it go 1-,ut to Fearts nelight '1-!hich 1-,as heen after it for a couple of vears, and I gave the reason tvhy. A~ RON. HE}~BER: A ~.;ell knm·:rn contract0r - Sunnyside, Come By Chance looking for '\-later and se,.;er, still have not '?;Ot it. Imoroved roads_ the peonle in ~{arklancl. have been looking for improved roads for as long as I can remember.

The ~·:.epartment of High'\vays does not even keep it uo. You have got to nhone every time you ,.;ant the grader to go over it. I was ta1kin~ just now, a hour ago, to a gentleman down in St. Jones <tJithin '1-7ho travels over the road everv day. 'f:.-,e road has not been graden, you _got to nhone every time vou want the road graded. '\!R.. RIT)EOUT: Get the minister to ~o dor.m and take a personal look at it. '':R.. CALL.l.JT : I \·JOuld like to be a~le to sav some nice things hut rhat is t~ere to sav - frustration, I r.ave had some frustrating vears in my life

April 21, 1977 Tape no. 1809 Page 1 - ms ~~rr. Callan. I have had some frustrating years in my life or frustrating experiences on councils and everything else in dealing \vith e;over::ment and \vhat have you 1 but I \·J"Ould say that this takes the cake. Sitting over here in an Opposition seat and listening to people like the gentleman from Bay of Islands (Hr. Hoodrmv) get up and talk about - Hhat was it he said? - he named them off: $341,090 for water and sewer here, another $77,000, $100,000, $25,000 more for this community, another $100,000, $30.000, $673,000 I added up there.

And the man is as happy as a lark. Of course he is. :·rR. DOODY: ~vhy \vould he not be? '1R. CALLAN: \fuy >vould he not be? lfR. RIDEOUT: Share it around a bit, boy. ,,1"') .l...I....L\.• CALLA.i.l" : lvhy -.:ould he not be? HR. NE1\RY: Host of it is Ottatva money. ~-1R. RIDEOUT: \fuat, water and se\•7er money? MR. NEARY: (Inaudible) . HR. RIDEOUT: Is that right? AN HON. ?:<!El:1BER: All LIP monev. ~-iR. CALLAN : ~va ter and sewer is not LIP . Well, $5 million, Jack Marshall they say - ~m. FLIGHT: That is all that has kept you going is LIP. I1R. CALLAN: P .C. member, Jack Harshall - HP ~..u...\..

RIDEOlJT: Yes, there is more of a sharing :'·1R. CALLAN: SS million >vent in his federal riding -· ~ffi.. RIDEOUT: And he is in Orposition. ~·1R. CALLA.\!: - and he is in Opposition. >1R. DOODY: Do you imagine he > ill ~:eep it up? :m. FLIGHT: Hhy do not you fellows act the same \·my? AN HON. ~1E:t·fBE3.: Send some to Wind~nr- Buchans. ~-rR. FLIGHT: Windsor - Buchans, what? ~m.. ROBERTS: Grand Falls ·- Hhite Bay, Labrador. That shows hov much "Getter 3ill Rompkey is. : -. .. • oO a}_

April 21, 1977 Tape no. 1809 Page .;<.. - ns Nr. Speaker, as I said. I did not intend to speak tonight but an:,.""':·ray before I sit dmm I Hould like to say something nice, something constructive. I do not like ttese destructive comments. I ~vill make a constructive comment before I sit dmm. I will make a suggestion, a constructive suggestion. I am going to call on this administration ':vhich represents forty-six per cent of the popular vote in this Province - ~-ffi.. FLIGHT: A minority government. : ffi. • CAL LAN : I ~~ going to call on them to resign. SOHE HON. ~!E~illERS: Hear, hear! ~1R. CALLAN: Resign!

Resign before the Province, the provincial debt smothers us all . ~1R. FLIGHT: And we go down the drain. ~.!R. CALLAN : Resign before the moral fibre is gone out of everyone of us. There is not much left. There is not much left. There might be a bit down in the Bay of Islands, but that if federal money. l-:!R. \JOODRmv: (Inaudible). MR. FLIGHT: lie cannot stand much more of this. Si)~·:!E HON. :t·'lE:fBERS : Oh, oh! ~1?-.. RIDEOUT: We will ast for your spiritual guidance in a minute. :{R. ROBERTS: But for a stroke of luc:..: he would have been with us. :1R . RIDEOUT: Yes. ~!R.

NEARY: The Acting Premier should go down now and pass in his resignation. HR. FLIGHT: Right. 501\fE H.C"N. ,:1""£~1BERS: 0h, oh! A?J HON. :-lli?·ffiER: Ilold your temper. ;- -

April 21, 19 77 Tape no. 1309 Page ..3 - ms :-ffi.. CALLAi'I: ~1r. Speaker, there is an old saying that says, You can lead a horse to \vater, but you cannot make him drink. ~IR. DOODY: I saw both of you do it. SOHE HO:l. :fEHBERS: Hear, hear: YUL CALLlu'l': No. I do not think the man from Bay of Islands kne\·7 it, but he probably knm.;rs it nmv, but he did not kno<7 it. Perhaps he \·7as the fellov7 at the university ~.;rho meant to 'rrite it dmm and he said, ''You can lead a horse to drink but you cannot make it water.'' But any;-;ay _ you can lead a horse to ~Ja ter, but you cannot make it drink. ::-fR.

ROBERTS: 'Luke' could. 1:-lR. CALLAN: The people in this Province, Hr. Speaker, have led the government to the Hater,but they have not drunk. Sm1E HON. HE~,IBERS: Hear, :1ear! ~l.R. CALLA.N: They have not drunk. They have been led to the v7ater, but they have not drunk from the \-later. HR. ROBERTS: They have been led up the garden path. :IR . CALLfu.'I: That is what the peopl,.e have done. A government that has mismanaged everything, Churchill Falls, the Linerboard mill, Come By Chance, the Gear Replacement Programme, the Department of Recreation and Rehabilitation - :1R. FLIGHT: Hydro. ~-1R:.

RIDEOUT: You are hitting them where it hurts nm.;r. ~1R. CALL.~.N: -· the Legislative Assembly '"i th the addition of seats ·. ;.fR. FLIGHT: Forestry. 'fR. CALLAN~ ~!y sugg2stion, ~-fr. Speaker, is -- Do not forget the ~orma and Gla dys . I·1R. CALLAN: I cannot very \vell say too much about the ~Iorma and Gladys. .·· ....... . ::

A? r i 1 21 , 19 7 7 Tape no. 1309 Page 'f - ns ~lr . Callan . I do not kno~·7 if the member for LaPoile C·!r . )leary) knmo~s it or not but ~cr.na - Nort:la and Gladys, of course, are t'\vo sisters, t~ey still are, one is living in t~e States - but ~i ona is married to Everett !ley i.Jho lives i-:1 Hillviet..r which is in r:.y district and so I cannot say very much about ~orma or Gladys. ~·ffi. ROBERTS: Tell us about t~e Gladys 'part of it. .·· ........ ; ...

Anril 21, 1977 ~ane '!o, lSliJ - j '.;'"':) _ .... CALLA:·i: I have met t~e two ladies, they are ni~o oeonle. All the neonle ar~ of course in the district of 'T_. DOODY: Something nice is all ri3h: to sav, 'f? . • FLIGrtT: (Iorma and. Gladys and To1"1. ~~~P .• RIDEOU'I'= '-Torma and Glarivs and Ton, '1"0 ~- ·- . CALLA...'·T: So my suggestion as I sit dmm, '·fr. Sneaker, to the adrc1ircistration, to the g;overnment, Re!?ign, Pesign ,qncl give tl:e DeoDle of this 'Province a chance, ;';ive t!-J.em 2. ·~rea~~. '1? .• 1\.nBFRTS: r.r,1at hA.n?eneC. to uoor 13ill Saunders?

A:·1' H0'T. '"FV3EP: - for a general election. ''rr-t . PLIGHT: Do the Province a favour. ~fl\. RII"EOUT: Hhat is that 'Dill'. '~.. ROBEP.TS : Another ~15,0'l0 £or you "Luke'. ~r.

Sneaker, in concluding I would like to say that . ' I hope that tl'le next ti..-rne that I stand in this House that it ·vill not he under the conditions that I have to stand nm·7, I ~one,and I co not knm·J if any hon. :!lernbers realize it or hovl bA.d it is, but ;.rhen you have a lar~e industry \..rith 5!)0 people emrloyecl. like t:1e CoTie by Chance Refinery that was operating pell mell, full speed ahead bac~ in 1975 7 and then in ~arch of 1976, four, five or six months after I 111as elected as the member for the district to have that ?lant closed, A'T HON. HE?-'ffiFR: It was a coincidence.

It T,Jas not your fault, M'R_ • CA LL.\~T : I knor-r it was not mv fault but T can tell vou that i.t caused an a~''ful lot of he2.daches and an aw·ful lot of torr.ent for me. - should not be smiling. CM.LA.'!: ~he only thi~g that I ~lsn, ~~ea~er, is that something 2..i;"'l? t:1at 1l·!Otlld 11rt.nnen., oerha-r.s, in a seat renresev .. ted Oy someone on t}1e ot':~r side then thev '·!I'Juld realize ''hY I al"l so frustrate-:!, c.nd '1!a!:e a constructive sneech, a speech si::ni!.ar to the cne :rle.c1e 11 Y

An:cil ?1 --· 1?77 t;,.e ~entlenan fror71. E:xnloi ts ("!')r, Tc·Tm!lev), I :-tave to be pessimistic, :-tave to be negative because everyt:1in~ that I see around the district that has to de with this ?.d-r:'li:-tistration is ne~ative. T~1an~: y·ou. )..f'O :..-.!..\.. T""le hon. !'leTnber for ~:askauni. :1?, . GOt"D IE : 'T'hank you, '.rr. Scea1-:er. l, like the hon. l:',e;';',ber for :qellevue ('~r. Callan') had not planned on speaking tonight. I had honed to na1-.e a feF :':ore T".o tP.s ~ut ~onefully or 2.s the LeP..c:er of the t'J··mosition DointeC. out, overco!".e that ~ar_c'ic:m so:'le F2Y nr other.

In thin~ing about this in speakin~ on the Ac.dress in ?enly I had the c.!l.:::mce obviously \·Then first ~lecter1. to sc~ak but that ~as - I considered it tn be at least, a sort nf a ~on:-.al i.zerl a.ddress in t!l.at for TT1.e I 1-,_.?.d nnt heei'. in t:-tr> ~ouse of )sseTnhly· nrior to walkin~ in that day.

I h.3.d never Yes, very nervous and not really knowing what to say, so I took the guidelines offered me an~ addressed ~vself But in thinking of rhat I ~mule have to sav t:1is tiiT'e around I consulted ,;it!l. one hon. meTI:ber 0f the EousP. an-!. as~:ed if during the history of t~l.e nc.t"ive Labradorian)if you ,.;1::.1 1::-e:i.ng eJ.ected to t~1:i.s ~1on. Ilnuse, had any of t:Cese ':le~'bers tried to ex~~~in t~e lifestyle Qnd t~e reasons that t~e pecryle of LabraQor feel t:cey are different fron t:1e neonle in ot':ler carts of the I sroke 2.ns,,1ered ~l.e su~g;ested t~at I should nev·er underestinate

.\l':'il ~1, 1977 Tat>e :!o . 1~ l':! '1"' - 3 "~. . r,nnn:.: over est i::::ate the anount of knm;r!.ecse ~nvone may have on a oerticular region, its concerns, and/o r its !'rcb~e!:ls . .\nd he su~~ested that I e:<olain as s!.nnlv as I could •·::,at I felt to be t~e ~ iffen,_n ces of the ..,enn le of Labrado-r . ~ut I am not going, to do t~at .

T~ere is some one else in this fair city, five other ~eople as a !'"latter of face , ••~c last ni.ght in their ouening ~er: o r:nanc.e of c:;e ;:!lay :·:eather Per::-.i ttir u:, die so effective a j o:; , a s I a::! sure - I do not knot.; if the t~e Leader o f the 0~nos ±t io~ ~·J ill agree or not , I k-Tlow he t·ras in attendance at the t'lay . but I knm.; I thorou-.:;!:tly - V.?, . ROB::R.TS: I ;,;as very d eeoly moved , '~ . GOT_T"OIE : Yes . ":.'es.

It causes - c.t least it causec :te to react in so many ··'a;.rs, Th e grouT' , the 'br.t!':"ers 'Iroun I ::hou!!ht i n oresent ing its 9l.av T·7eather ?e_~ittin"? and just to ~ive . i ·- ....

April 21, 1977 Tape 1811 PK - 1 Mr. Goudie: a little bit of background on that. Apparently the request was made by the Labrador Resources Advisory Council to the Mummers that they do some kind of a play on Labrador. It is the first time, I think, that it has ever been done in this city~ It is part of what 'IoTas called Labrador Week. They had a panel discussion Tuesday night with the Arts and Crafts display down in the main lobby at this poiDt in time, and some other things, the presentation of the Resources Advisory Council annual report - MR. ROBERTS: All members should go to see it. HR.

GOUDIE: Yes, I was going to make that suggestion. But just to comment on the play itself, I am by no means a critic as is Hr. Treacher, but I think the play is very accurate in its detail, it is obviously very controversial. MR. ROBERTS: It is very moving. HR. GOT.JDIE: Yes. It is very revealing. It is a very important function. And as a matter of fact Hr. Treacher in his review suggests that they come into this hon. House and present a performance to the hon. members, and no one·else in the hon. House. I do not know. MR. ROBERTS: A solo jaunt in other words. MR. GOUDIE: Yes. Yes.

AN lL"'N • MEMBER: Starting to sound like the member for Twillingate (Hr. Smallwood) going on these guidelines. MR. GOUDIE: AN RON . MEHBER: MR. DOODY: MR. GOUDIE: There you go, yes. Heart to heart. Cheek to jowl. But in any ev