Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Statements by Ministers — 6 May 2003 (44th General Assembly, 5th Session, Vol. XLIV No. 17)
2003-05-06
Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
May 6, 2003 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS
Vol. XLIV No. 17
The House met at 1:30 p.m.
MR. SPEAKER (Snow): Order, please!
Before I call Routine Proceedings, I would like to welcome to the gallery
today a delegation from Prince of Wales Collegiate, consisting of two teachers
and three students. They will be hosting the National Student Leadership
Conference to be held here in September.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Statements by Members
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Gander.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS KELLY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I stand before this hon. House today to congratulate Kel Varnson, a
twenty-three year old Gander native who recently made his directorial debut on
MuchMusic.
Mr. Varnson animated, produced and directed a video last summer for
"Classified", a rap artist from Halifax, who he met while studying at
the Nova Scotia College of Art and Design.
The entire video, that took roughly five months to complete, was created and
developed solely in Newfoundland, as Gander is the location of Mr. Varnson's
production company, 12incheffx, which he and a friend founded three years ago.
The video was picked up by MuchMusic on January 10, and put into medium
rotation, meaning that it usually airs twice a day. It is also getting high
rotation on MuchVibe, a digital channel affiliated with MuchMusic, and it is
anticipated that the video will soon be picked up by MTV Canada.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate Kel Varnson on this outstanding
accomplishment, and wish him the best of luck with his future production
projects.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Waterford Valley.
MR. H. HODDER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I am delighted today to rise in this House and offer
congratulations to a young man in my district who has achieved exceptional
athletic performances in spite of his physical challenges.
Darryl Osborne, a twenty-five year old resident of Pine Bud Crescent in Mount
Pearl, has cerebral palsy but that did not stop him from breaking the Canadian
record during the Spring Splash at the Aquarena in St. John's and the
100-metre breast stroke in the Swimmers With A Disability category. His time of
2:14:07 broke the former Canadian record of 2:21:06, which, Mr. Speaker, he also
held.
Mr. Speaker, Darryl also holds the provincial record for Swimmers With A
Disability in the fifty-metre butterfly and the fifty-metre freestyle.
Overcoming challenges is nothing new to Darryl. He is presently a student at
Memorial University and in the upcoming Convocation will graduate with a
Bachelor of Arts Degree.
Mr. Speaker, I am sure all members of this House would want to join me in
offering Darryl Osborne sincere congratulations on his outstanding athletic
achievements, as well as his determination not to let cerebral palsy stand in
the way of his desire to complete his university education. Young people like
Darryl are an inspiration to all citizens but especially to young people who
face significant life-long physical challenges.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance.
MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
By leave, for a Member's Statement?
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burin-Placentia West.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS M. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, I rise in this House today to congratulate a
soccer player from Burin who has performed extremely well in Canadian University
Sports.
Mr. Speaker, Sarah Drake, who plays with the University College of Cape
Breton Capers of the Atlantic University Sports, was a finalist for the Canadian
Interuniversity Sport female athlete of the year presented last evening. While
she was unsuccessful in winning the award, Mr. Speaker, she had an exemplary
season.
Sarah was named the Atlantic University Sports Most Valuable Player and the
Canadian Interuniversity Sports Female Soccer Player of the Year after scoring
six goals during the season, good for second place in conference scoring and
helped lead her squad to 9-0-4 record and the conference final.
Mr. Speaker, the Burin Peninsula is known Province-wide as a hotbed of soccer
and I am sure all residents of the Province are proud of Sarah's
accomplishments.
On behalf of all members of this House, I congratulate Sarah on this
outstanding achievement.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
During lunch hour today I, along with several other MHAs, including the
Minister of Education, had the opportunity to participate in a very special
celebration here at the main lobby of the Confederation Building. The Kids Eat
Smart Foundation of Newfoundland and Labrador held a news conference to announce
the winner of the Kids Eat Smart Challenge 2003: The Good Eating - Good Thinking
Banner Project. This project sponsored by Petro-Canada involved students from
all across our Province.
Early in the new year, schools were sent white broadcloth banners. They were
returned painted, quilted, tie-dyed, crayoned, ironed-on and transformed at the
hands of students from Kindergarten to Grade 12 into awesome and educational
art.
One banner from ten schools districts was selected a "Tablecloth
Contender." An independent panel selected one of the ten to be reproduced
as a tablecloth, which will be available for sale as a fundraiser for the Kids
Eat Smart Foundation.
The Foundation was thrilled with the response when 112 banners were returned
from all over Newfoundland and Labrador. The judges narrowed down the 112
entries into ten finalist, which included schools from each of the school
districts.
As the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's, I was absolutely delighted to
be asked to accept the certificate on behalf of a school in my district named
St. Anne's Academy of Dunville. The banner designed by the students of St.
Anne's depicted our four main food groups superimposed on a highway. It
clearly shows the road to health is obtained by eating smart.
A few moments ago I spoke with Principal Pam Constantine of St. Anne's who
was absolutely thrilled to hear that St. Anne's have once again risen to the
challenge and once again were named the best in the Province.
My congratulations go out to all students and staff of St. Anne's Academy
in Dunville for a job well done. The creativity shown through the banner display
is a sure sign that students of this Province are second to none. This is indeed
another proud day for the school community of St. Anne's Academy.
I would like to also send congratulations to the Kids Eat Smart Foundation
itself and to all community sponsors and the people who support the foundation
throughout the Province, including many of my colleagues here in the House.
A healthy body produces a healthy mind and statistics show the positive
results of this program in our schools. Through Kids Eat Smart 4,000 volunteers
and a partnership network with community groups, corporations and government,
provide nutritious food for more than 15,000 children at 139 Kids Eat Smart
clubs. The objective of the foundation is to help ensure children's rights to
adequate and nutritious food.
I ask all members to join with me in congratulating St. Anne's Academy of
Dunville on this wonderful accomplishment and to all the schools who took
part
in the banner program.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for The Straits & White Bay North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to recognize what can only be described as a truly outstanding
individual in my district. Grenfell Belbin, who is an employee with Aliant
Telecom of St. Anthony, has accomplished what I would expect very few people in
this Province have been successful in doing. He has worked the past thirty years
and has been fortune enough not to have taken one sick day.
Mr. Speaker, Mr. Belbin, when interviewed in The Northern Pen some
time ago, commented that while he had the flu on a number of occasions and felt
like staying home, he thought it was best to go in and go to work because the
work would only be waiting for him the day after when he finally did get back
in.
Mr. Speaker, Mr. Belbin attributes much of his good luck and good health to
heredity since his father, the senior Mr. Belbin who died earlier this year at
the age of ninety-two, went through his whole life without once visiting the
hospital and without so much as taking an aspirin until just briefly before he
died. He also gives great credit to his wife who - it is interesting that today
we had a function out in the lobby and spoke about healthy eating for healthy
bodies and healthy minds. Mr. Speaker, he attributes a great deal of his success
in avoiding illness to a healthy lifestyle and healthy eating at the hands of
his wife.
While we all know that working with Aliant Telecom, and anybody who has any
knowledge of the work that they do in climbing poles in very adverse conditions,
he has been successful in avoiding injury through all those years. Just recently
Aliant Telecom presented Mr. Belbin with a commemorative jacket and
congratulated him on his achievement. The one thing they did not do was suggest
that he take the day off on account of it.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, today I stand proudly to commend Mr. James Kennedy, the
President of Branch 1 of the Royal Canadian Legion for receiving the Queen's
Jubilee medal for his commitment to his community.
Last night, in my district of St. John's Centre, I had the privilege and
pleasure of presenting Mr. Kennedy with his medal at a ceremony at Branch 1. The
function was attended by over 100 people, many of whom were very much aware and
very much appreciative of Jim's efforts.
Mr. Kennedy's involvement as a volunteer and as an executive member of the
Royal Canadian Legion has spanned over twenty years, and he is currently serving
his fifth term as president of Branch 1.
He also served as a volunteer with: the Boy Scouts of Canada; the Red Cross;
the Food Sharing Association; the Froude Avenue Community Centre; and the
Provincial Canada Day Committee.
Mr. Speaker, volunteering for any reason can sometimes take you away from
your family and your personal life and I know that it is not always easy. I am
very pleased to nominate someone of Jim Kennedy's caliber as he truly embodies
all the good things that are associated with being a volunteer. He has spent
countless hours volunteering his time and energy to help improve our community.
The community will continue to grow and improve for years to come with people
like Jim working for the good of others, as his first priority.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for the opportunity of doing this this afternoon.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Statements by Ministers
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Youth Services and Post-Secondary
Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I was extremely pleased this morning to publicly release Beyond High
School: A Follow-up Study of June High School Graduates . This document
reports the activities of the high school graduates of 2001, one year following
their graduation.
Information contained in the report is key to providing students, parents,
policy makers and program administrators with insight into the decisions
graduates make after completing high school.
Beyond High School indicated that 71 per cent of respondents were engaged in
post-secondary studies at the time of the survey, as compared to 65 per cent in
1995. There was also a shift in the post-secondary institutions students chose.
Forty percent of 2001 graduates attended Memorial University, up from 37 per
cent in 1996; 17 per cent attended College of the North Atlantic, up from 12 per
cent in 1996. This trend towards higher level of post-secondary education by the
youth of this Province is very encouraging. Out of the 29 per cent who did not
participate in post-secondary education, it is important to note that 93 per
cent of those graduates expressed a desire to do so in the future, and that is
good news.
In a recent research bulletin, Human Resources Development Canada estimated
that over the next five years, 70 per cent of new jobs will require a
post-secondary diploma and occupations requiring a university degree will see an
annual growth of 2.3 per cent.
Beyond High School is the second in a series of research initiatives
undertaken by my department. The first document entitled: Career Search, was
released in November of 2002 by my colleague, the Member for Gander. It reported
the employment and earnings of post-secondary graduates in 2000.
During the next several weeks we plan to release a third study, which is a
long-term followup of post-secondary graduates. It tracks labour market
activities over a five-year period. The fourth document, which will be released
later this year, reports performance indicators on all aspects of the
post-secondary system, including funding, student satisfaction and transition
into the labour market.
The Government of Newfoundland and Labrador is committed to providing the
best possible information to ensure our students make informed educational
decisions for career and employment success.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Harbour Main-Whitbourne.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HEDDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I would like to thank the minister for an advance copy of her ministerial
statement. I would say that when we look at the release of this document, it
certainly gives us some good statistics as to where the high school graduates of
at least a year or so ago have gone, one year following their graduation. That
information will be of value to, certainly, students and parents and other
stakeholders in helping students make informed decisions.
It is interesting to note that there is a high level of high school students
entering post-secondary, but what is not said, Mr. Speaker, is that there is a
low number of graduates coming out, that the percentage of those who actually
fulfill the requirements of programs is one of the lowest in the country. Even
though we have a high rate going in, we have a lower rate coming out. We do know
the importance of post-secondary education in the job market.
I am also a little bit disappointed that the minister has just gone on and
talked about the release of more studies. What I am more interested in, and I am
sure most people are more interested in, Minister, is: What are you going to do
with the information that you have in this report?
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. HEDDERSON: What are you going to do to make sure that our
post-secondary students get what they deserve?
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the minister for an
advance copy of her statement.
It is interesting, Mr. Speaker, that the department is tracking people and
finding out what they are doing a year later. I would like to say, Mr. Speaker,
it is important that students, upon finishing school or attending in the last
stages of high school, certainly have a clear understanding as to what is
available in the workplace when they graduate, so they know at least what to go
in and train for.
I would like to also take this opportunity to say to the minister, that the
rest of Canada must be pretty proud of this Province with all the graduates that
we are training to go to work in other provinces. When is this government going
to do something so that when people graduate from our schools they will have an
opportunity to remain in this Province and find meaningful employment?
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Labour.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to recognize May 4 to May10 as
North American Occupational Safety and Heath Week, or (NAOSH Week). During this
time, employers, government, labour and workers in Canada, the United States and
Mexico will join forces to promote a greater awareness of the importance of
preventing workplace accidents and occupational illnesses.
Just last week, Mr. Speaker, Canadians paid tribute to those who have been
injured or who have died on the job, in an official Day of Mourning. In a
ceremony here at Confederation Building, employers and employees were encouraged
to strengthen their commitment and support of occupational health and safety, in
an effort to bring an end to work-related illness and injury.
The Government of Newfoundland and Labrador recognizes the need to work with
businesses, with labour associations and communities at large to foster an
environment where we can reduce human, social and economic loss that often
results from workplace accident, injury and death.
Mr. Speaker, the theme of this year's NAOSH Week is: Prevention is the Cure
- Prepare Young Workers for the Future. As a government, we remain committed to
ensuring young people are well prepared for long, healthy careers in the
workplace. We will continue to work with employers, employees and labour toward
this goal.
As a government, we remain focused on striving for excellence in health and
safety in our Province's workplaces. We believe a healthy workplace means
healthy employees, and that is good for everyone.
And we are having success in our efforts. Since 2000 we have experienced a
significant drop in both short-term disability claims and health care claims
which has seen the numbers of time loss claims drop from 12,847 in the year 2000
to 9,985 in the year 2002. This represents a drop of almost 3,000 claims which
is quite a significant achievement.
However, Mr. Speaker, while we may have made great strides in health and
safety in the workplace, there are still accidents and fatalities in this
Province. Much has been accomplished but much needs to be done. It is vital we
continue, as a government, to be vigilant and to continue to work with business
and labour to promote safe and healthy workplaces in our Province.
Mr. Speaker, in recognition of NAOSH Week, I ask all Newfoundlanders and
Labradorians to encourage their employers and fellow employees to strengthen
their commitment and support of occupational health and safety in an effort to
bring an end to work-related illness and injury.
Thank you very much.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the minister for a copy of his statement prior to the opening of the
House.
There is no doubt, it is important to set aside a week so that we all can
create an awareness of the importance of creating a healthy work environment.
Certainly, over the past number of years we have seen the partnerships of the
government, labour and workers themselves, and the positive results that has
produced. Creating a safe, healthy working environment has to be a community
effort. Everybody has to play a part, and I think that we are heading in the
right direction.
Certainly, it is great to see any reduction in the amount of accidents, in
the amount of work-related illness of any shape, Mr. Speaker. We are delighted,
on this side of the House, to see that.
We also have to ask ourselves, in today's world, why, right here in our own
Province - it is a great week to raise the issue - the workers with Newfoundland
Hydro had to hold a demonstration in Holyrood this past Monday morning because
power engineers in that company, Mr. Speaker, are being asked to do a two-day
course so that they can do the work of electricians. We have to ask ourselves,
Mr. Speaker, dealing with power pumps with 600 volts of power and we have power
engineers out asked to do a two-day course to deal with that.
Mr. Speaker, I think we are playing with danger when we do that.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. MANNING: Certainly, Mr. Speaker, another place I feel that we have -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. MANNING: By leave, Mr. Speaker, if I could?
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: No leave.
MR. SPEAKER: No leave.
The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the minister for a copy of his statement.
Earlier this week, or last week, Mr. Speaker, I distributed a canary in a
cage to all members of the House, which was the thing that miners used to use
many years ago when they were underground. They would have a canary there with
them, and when the canary died from gas they knew it was time for them to get
out.
We have advanced a long way since then, Mr. Speaker, but in this Province we
have had our share of tragedies over the years. If we look around, what happened
in St. Lawrence, in Baie Verte, in Labrador West, in the fishing industry, each
of these industries can relate high numbers of fatalities during the past number
of years.
On June 1, 1979, the right to refuse was proclaimed in this Province.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. COLLINS: By leave, Mr. Speaker?
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Yes.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. COLLINS: I say to the minister, Mr. Speaker, while all these
statements are good, and they look good on paper, what we need is more
enforcement so that we do not have Westrays in this Province. What we need, Mr.
Speaker, is for the minister to be on top of things, to make sure that the
regulations in this Province are enforced and make sure - I ask the minister if
he could inform the House, probably, of the number of safety reports that are
required by regulation to be sent to his department, how many of these are
actually done and complied with?
I say to the minister, it is all well and good to stand in this House and
make a statement but in the workplace, on the shop floor, is where the
enforcement is necessary and his department is ultimately responsible for seeing
that happens.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise this afternoon to tell this hon. House about an exciting event
scheduled to take place in St. John's this coming fall. Prince of Wales
Collegiate has been selected to host the national Canadian Student Leadership
Conference from September 27 until October 4.
This is only the second time a school from this Province has been chosen to
host this prestigious even and we are delighted to have some student and teacher
representatives in the gallery today. I would like to point out: Mr. Allister
Dyke, Principal of PWC; Ms Bernice Langdon, Conference Chair; and students:
Christian Dicks; Betty Soo; Zan Au You; and Kayla Dyer.
Mr. Speaker, more than 600 students and teachers from across Canada will come
to St. John's for one week to participate in this leadership conference and
explore the theme, Unlock the Future. Delegates will have the opportunity to
develop their leadership skills so they can unlock the doors to the future and
become leaders of tomorrow.
The conference will feature a full
schedule of activities as the students
learn about the importance of community service, volunteerism, team work,
determination and education. This will help them develop the leadership skills
that will prepare them to meet the challenges of tomorrow.
Mr. Speaker, we are delighted to have this conference here in St. John's as
it gives students from more than forty schools throughout Newfoundland and
Labrador the opportunity to learn from the finest instructors involved in
leadership training. Under their guidance, the students will access the highest
level of instruction and strengthen their own personal leadership talents. For
these students, Mr. Speaker, it will be an experience of a lifetime.
As an added bonus, Mr. Speaker, in addition to the workshops and seminars
planned by Prince of Wales Collegiate, the hosts have also organized an array of
activities to showcase the culture and heritage of our beautiful Province. Some
of the out-of-Province students will begin their trip in Gros Morne National
Park, and will then drive as a convoy across our Province.
They will show the student leaders from across Canada the real Newfoundland
and Labrador, and these leaders will return to their own provinces as
ambassadors for this Province.
Mr. Speaker, I ask this hon. House to join with me in congratulating the
organizing committee of Prince of Wales Collegiate and wishing them all the best
as they welcome the future leaders of our country to this Province.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Official Opposition, we certainly congratulate
Prince of Wales Collegiate as they host this very important conference that is
coming up in several months here in St. John's. We certainly welcome, again on
behalf of our party, the Principal of the school, Mr. Dyke, Ms Langdon, and the
students of PWC.
It is interesting to note, as the minister has indicated, that they will
focus on issues such as community service, volunteerism, teamwork, determination
and education. Of course, these are the themes that are very important for young
people today, and as they live out their lives in the future.
We certainly welcome students from across Canada as they visit our Province,
and we certainly welcome students from other parts of Newfoundland and Labrador
as they come to St. John's, our provincial capital, and participate in this
very important and worthwhile conference.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We, too, congratulate the Prince of Wales Collegiate students and teachers on
hosting this event. An important event, I might add, because it is important
that all students in our Province have the opportunity, each and every time it
presents itself, to develop the leadership skills they will require, because
after all, they are tomorrow's leaders.
We wish all of these students from all across the country, all across this
Province, a very successful conference. I am sure the students and teachers who
will be visiting this Province from away will take back very many rich memories
of the people and our land outside of the conference as well.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. COLLINS: Again, I congratulate Prince of Wales Collegiate on being
chosen to host this event.
Oral Questions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My questions this afternoon are for the Premier.
Mr. Speaker, last week this House passed a unanimous resolution calling on
the federal government to reverse its decision to close the Gulf and Northern
Cod fishery. There can be absolutely no doubt that we all support this cause.
Through debate in the House of Commons and the House of Assembly and public
protests, the eyes and ears of our Province, and indeed the country, were
focused on this very, very important issue. Unfortunately, the Premier has made
comments that have moved this debate away from the fishery. The issue has now
become a matter of law. We are now discussing two very, very separate issues.
Mr. Speaker, one of the most fundamental responsibilities of any government
is to oversee the proper administration of justice. Today this government
shirked that responsibility when the Premier enticed fishermen to break the law
by indicating that his government would shield them from prosecution. This is a
very serious matter.
Mr. Speaker, can the Premier please explain how he, as leader of our
Province, can stand before the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, and indeed
our country, and entice individuals to break the law and then offer them
protection from prosecution? How can any responsible government do that?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Again, while operating in the interests of trying to get the right decision
made here, it took us until Wednesday of last week to have the Leader of the
Opposition decide that he was against the closure. He had accepted it before
that, but we are glad to have him back onside.
Mr. Speaker, if he had checked his facts in this - as a matter of fact, in
the interviews that I have done and everything I have said publicly, I have
stated quite clearly that a leader of a government cannot, would not, and I
would certainly not advise or countenance anyone to break the law. The objective
here is to make sure that no law gets broken. The objective here is to still
make sure that the government makes the right decision so that the people who
have told me - and I reported this to the Prime Minister over a week ago - the
people who have reported to me that they feel so aggrieved, and I understood
last week that the Leader of the Opposition, the fisheries critic and others,
also felt so aggrieved, that they themselves have advised me, as the Premier,
and I have advised the Prime Minister, that if we do not make the right
decision, law-abiding people are saying they feel it is so wrong and so
aggrieved that they will likely protest fish.
Now, that has been told to me. I have done my job and I have told it to the
Prime Minister, the head of the government, who has made a decision that might
see respectful, law-abiding Newfoundlanders go out and protest fish. I am
advising people, what we are hoping to do is this - and I thought the Leader of
the Opposition, maybe he has changed his mind again, I thought the Leader of the
Opposition was supporting us because the question we were trying to clarify last
week: Is he still supporting us in trying to get the fundamental decision
reversed, yes or no? Or, is he accepting that the decision is final and its time
to move on? Now, which one is it? Because we do not accept that the decision is
final. We still hope to get it reversed. Then there will be no illegal activity
and there will be nothing to defend or protect. Our objective is to get the
right decision taken, Mr. Speaker, in the first instance.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, because of the seriousness of this matter I
have no intention of
playing word games with the Premier this afternoon. I made it very, very
clear, in introducing that question, that there is absolutely no doubt that we
support the cause of reopening the cod fishery.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, desperate people do desperate things, but this
goes way beyond political grandstanding. This seriously undermines our legal
system and our law enforcement officers in this Province.
Mr. Speaker, regardless of motives, regardless of how noble or right the
cause is, and regardless of the fact that the entire Province supports our
fishermen and women, the law is the law and this government cannot and must not
interfere -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member is on a supplementary, I ask him to get to his question.
MR. WILLIAMS: - with the administration of justice.
Mr. Speaker, can the Premier please explain to the people how he plans,
exactly, to shield individuals who break the law from prosecution? We have been
told by fishermen that he has, in fact, given them that assurance.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I am not interested in playing word games either, I can tell you
that for a fact, but maybe it is interesting to note that it was one full week
after the announced closure, when the wrong decision was taken, that the Leader
of the Opposition was saying to VOCM: I didn't ask for a reversal. I admit
that I didn't use that word. Now, that was one week after the fact.
Our objective from day one, and the objective, I understand, of the people
from his caucus who showed up at the rallies on the weekend, was to say to those
people affected and impacted, that we believe and we support you in getting the
decision changed, so then there will be no need to protect anyone from anything.
The whole objective is to say, quite clearly, that we believe the fishing season
is about to start, sometime soon, and we believe that with the full support of
the Opposition there is still an opportunity in Newfoundland and Labrador, like
there is in New Brunswick, where the Fisheries Minister is in the news saying:
There is still time to negotiate.
The Member for The Straits-White Bay North is shaking his head in agreement,
nodding that that is true. The Member for St. Barbe is nodding agreement, that
is true. That is what we are trying to do, to get them to come right here to
Newfoundland and Labrador and we will gladly talk about a fishery reduced by 50
per cent, a proper compensation plan -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. Premier now to conclude answer.
PREMIER GRIMES: - and there will be no need to protect anybody from
anything.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, this is very dangerous business that the Premier is about,
disregard for the law, and public endorsement of that position by the Premier
places the people of this Province, particularly the fishermen and our law
enforcement officials, in jeopardy, even danger.
Mr. Speaker, the truth of the matter is that there is no way that this
government can protect people who break the law. They can be prosecuted if they
do so, and they could lose their boats, their gear, their licenses and anything
else connected to the execution of illegal activity.
Mr. Speaker, can the Premier, please, clearly explain to the fishermen and
women the true consequences of their following his advise?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, again it is unfortunate that the Leader of the Opposition is
trying to suggest that I have said something that I have not said. I have given
no advise, Mr. Speaker. As a matter of fact, had he been in the meetings, any of
the meetings - because I do not believe he has met with any people impacted or
affected since this started twelve or thirteen days ago. He has been too busy
doing other things that are important to him. The fact of the matter is this: in
every single meeting I have had, and in every single public representation I
have made, I have said clearly this: that I cannot and I would not advise anyone
to break the law. But they stand up in the meetings and say: But, Mr. Premier, I
am telling you that I do not want to break the law either but this decision is
so wrong that I will most likely go out and fish.
I say, if that is the case, I cannot advise you to do it, I do not advise you
to do it, because you do know the consequences, and they already know the
consequences. What I am saying is that I fully support them. The decision is
dead wrong. I thought the Leader of the Opposition also thought the decision
that is in place is dead wrong. Maybe he has changed his mind again today, Mr.
Speaker. Maybe he has changed his mind again today. We are trying to suggest to
everybody that there is still time to come and talk to us. I spoke to our
federal minister this morning about what we could do to have the decision
reversed -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. the Premier now to conclude his answer.
PREMIER GRIMES: - and the right compensation packages put in place. We
are still trying to get that done, and then we will not have to protect anyone
because we will have the right decisions in place.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, what the Premier is saying is, by not enforcing the law, he is
inciting and encouraging breaking the law. Mr. Speaker, without law we have
anarchy. There is a stark contrast between the reaction of the New Brunswick
Government to law-breaking by not justifying it and by encouraging calm and
cooler heads to prevail.
Mr. Speaker, now that the Premier has said that he is prepared to facilitate
individuals breaking the law, what will he do if the situation escalates beyond
a protest fishery? How far does his offer of immunity extend?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, it is again unfortunate that the Leader of
the Opposition wants to misrepresent what I have said. Those people whom I have
met with, those people whom I have talked to, know that what he just described
is exactly the opposite of what I have said.
What I have said is that I understand the predicament that you are in. I
understand why you feel so aggrieved. I understand why you are so frustrated and
angry that, as Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, respectful, law-abiding people,
that they would actually take down a Canadian Flag and burn it for the first
time in the history of the Province. I understand that they feel the decision is
so wrong that they are driven to do things that they normally would not even
contemplate, and they understand and know that we cannot protect them and shield
them from the administration of the law, because it will occur.
What I am doing, again, is repeating the message for everybody in the
Province and the country to hear. I want everyone to know that these people are
so offended at this point in time that they may very well go out and
protest-fish if the right decision is not taken, and there is still lots of time
Opposition and all the parties in this House, which we voted on last Wednesday -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. the Premier now to conclude his answer.
PREMIER GRIMES: - to have the decision reversed so we do not have to talk
about anything being illegal and protecting anyone; we will just get the right
decision made.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. the Premier now to take his seat.
PREMIER GRIMES: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I will certainly take my seat.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, this is not the first time that the Premier has encouraged civil
disobedience, for that was his proposed solution for Marystown, when Friede
Goldman threatened to remove assets. If the Premier cannot find another way to
deal with crisis, then we must seriously question his judgement.
Mr. Speaker, if the Premier is prepared to entice these individuals to break
the law, and offer to shield them from prosecution because he supports their
cause, what other group is he prepared to turn a blind eye to while they break
the law? Now that he has set a precedent, how far will this go if the people can
use their Premier as their defence to breaking the law?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It is good to see which side of the argument the great fighting
Newfoundlander is coming down onside of today. I guess he must have lost the
fire that he had in his speech during the weekend, when he talked about fighting
harder than anybody ever fought for Newfoundland and Labrador. We will see how
hard he is willing to fight today, and his members opposite are so proud of him.
Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is this: These people who are impacted,
who are members of the Fisheries, Food and Allied Workers, have been given legal
advice about the consequences as to whether or not they should break the law.
Some of the actions they have already taken, as a matter of fact, with respect
to occupying offices, which, under normal circumstances are considered to be a
breach of the law. I am sure the Leader of the Opposition would agree with that.
I suppose they should all be dragged off and charged now for occupying the
offices. Those in charge of the system have made their judgements about whether
they arrest people, whether they charge people. We are trying to make sure, Mr.
Speaker, and we are trying to make the point as loudly and as clearly as we can,
that there is no need for us to even be talking about these legal issues. What
there is a need for is the right and proper decision to be made, which I
understood the Leader of the Opposition stood in this Legislature last Wednesday
and gave a speech saying he did agree that the decision should be reversed. That
was the first part of the motion, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. Premier now to conclude his answer, quickly.
PREMIER GRIMES: We are still trying to get the decision reversed and then
all of this will go by the wayside, as it should, if we get the right and proper
and just decision for Newfoundland and Labrador.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the Premier said he has not made the statements that I am
attributing to him. In a news release today, I quote: Grimes says if fishermen
are charged provincial justice officials will not help Ottawa with the
prosecution.
My next question is for the Minister of Justice and the Attorney General for
Newfoundland and Labrador. Mr. Speaker, that minister, as a lawyer, is an
officer of the Supreme Court of Newfoundland and Labrador and he, as I am, is
sworn to uphold the law.
Mr. Speaker, does the Minister of Justice and Attorney General support the
Premier's actions wherein the Premier indicated his clear support for
law-breaking? Does he believe that a sitting government and a Cabinet, of which
he is a member, should encourage individuals to break the law?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, first of all I would say to the hon. Leader of
the Opposition that he should not confuse the role of Justice with the Premier's
road to a just decision.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. PARSONS: Two absolutely different things. The Attorney General in
this Province has an obligation and is sworn to uphold the law, and I do not
need anyone over there on that side of the House to tell me what those
obligations are. As the Attorney General, Mr. Speaker, you take no directions
from the Premier when it comes to the proper administration of law and justice
in this Province. This Premier has not given any instructions to this individual
and this Attorney General, in terms of the administration of justice, nor would
I take any. It is my responsibility as the Attorney General of this Province,
and no one else's, to ensure that the laws of this land are upheld.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
To the Minister of Justice, I say his Premier has said that provincial
justice officials will not help Ottawa with the prosecution. His Premier has
said that he will support breaking the law and he will not enforce it. In other
words, he will interfere with the administration of justice. Then if the
minister is independent and if his department is independent, does he or does he
not agree with the Premier's position? Yes or no?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
First of all, I am not a witness in any courtroom to be subjected to
cross-examination.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. PARSONS: These questions are far too serious to be answered
trivially. They are very serious questions indeed; very serious.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. PARSONS: Again, the commentary of the Leader of the Opposition is not
deserving of a comment from what I just heard.
In any case, Mr. Speaker, there has to be an understanding here, and I am
sure the Leader of the Opposition is capable of understanding that there are
different hats and responsibilities that people have. There is Kelvin Parsons,
the private citizen; there may be Kelvin Parsons the MHA; there is Kelvin
Parsons the Minister of Justice and there is Kelvin Parsons as the Attorney
General. When I accepted this office I swore to uphold the laws of this land as
the Attorney General. That will be done. There are no ifs, there are no ands,
and there are no buts. That is part of the job and the day that I cease to be
prepared to do that I shall leave this job.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, it has been over a year since the Department of Environment has
announced the Provincial Waste Management Strategy. As part of that strategy
government will finalize waste management standards and regulations within the
next six to twelve months. I understand that the standards are almost ready to
be released. To paraphrase the minister from Budget Estimates last week: the
waste management committees throughout the Province are at various stages of
organization. Some are very organized, some are not. There are no regulations
put in place to implement this strategy. There are no regulations put in place.
They should have been put in place within six to twelve months. I ask the
minister when those regulations will be put in place and why they have not been
according to the strategy?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MERCER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
If the gentleman opposite was fully listening to the Budget estimate Debate
he would have heard that yes, we have a waste management strategy and we have
that published. It is out in the public domain. He would also know that I
answered, in a direct question to him, about the various standards associated
with the operation of a waste management facility, the types of materials and so
on, and the decommissioning of facilities. Those regulations, or those proposed
regulations, were in draft form and they are already out in the public at this
point in time, being discussed, being circulated. We are now waiting for the
commentary back. When that happens we can finalize most of the regulations.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I spoke to two officials of the Department of Environment this week who told
me that there are standards that are almost ready to be released but there are
no regulations. They saw no need to put regulations in place because of the
standards. The strategy clearly outlines that their standards and regulations
will be put in place within six to twelve months. That has not happened.
Mr. Speaker, the Avalon Waste Management Committee was funded by government
and operated in conjunction with several departments of government. Several of
the waste management committees throughout the Province, according to the
minister, are at various stages of organization. Have any of the other waste
management committees throughout the Province been funded and organized by
government to the same degree that the Avalon Waste Management Committee has
been?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MERCER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It is really interesting to have this discussion on Budget Estimates all over
again because the same questions that were asked at Budget Estimates are being
asked again here today. The same information applies. The western waste
management strategy or the Western Waste Management Group was funded by the
Multi-Materials Stewardship Board. They have in place a committee which has
prepared several reports. They are in the process now of submitting the last and
final report from that particular committee. Once that is received we will
review it and decide which actions have to be taken and where do we go from
there.
A similar committee in Central Newfoundland has also received funding from
the Multi-Materials Stewardship Board and is doing a considerable amount of work
in that part of the Province. The group in the St. Anthony, Northern Peninsula
area, has a committee in place. We have, in fact, funded an individual up there.
They have come to us and recommended that out of the thirteen waste disposal
sites in that area we reduce them to three. They are also recommending that they
close out the teepee sites sooner rather than later.
So, yes, Mr. Speaker, these committees have been funded by the
Multi-Materials Stewardship Board throughout the Province. We are doing the work
and things are developing as they should.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Final supplementary, the hon. the Member for St. John's
South.
MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, to fund an individual on the Northern Peninsula is a far cry
from funding and organizing the Avalon Waste Management Committee. The
incinerator at St. Anthony is not being shut down by government sooner than
later. It gave out. It was torn down because it gave out.
I am asking the minister what he is going to do in areas such as St. Anthony
and other areas of the Province, where they have not received the same attention
as the Avalon Waste Management Committee, to put in place and implement
strategies as opposed to opening new and temporary landfill sites because the
incinerators simply gave out and are no longer operable?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Environment.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MERCER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Once again, we are hearing the overpass syndrome in high gear.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. MERCER: The group in St. Anthony, apart from being a single
individual - and if he is, I guess the mayor of St. Anthony had no reason to
accompany him here in St. John's - fully supportive of the work which is being
done in that particular area and fully supportive of the strategy which is being
developed. What they are talking about doing in the St. Anthony region - for the
benefit of the Member for The Straits & White Bay North, if he would care to
listen; it is his district after all. It would be worthy to note that what they
are doing is not opening new landfill sites, what they are trying to do is to
collapse thirteen sites into three consolidated sites and to maintain the revets
at those areas and reduce emissions from the teepee sites. That is what is
happening in the St. John's area. What is happening in the Avalon region - a
report has been prepared. It has been submitted to government and they are
proposing to develop a site at Dog Hill.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My question is for the Premier.
While it touches on the issue that is at hand with the fishery, I also want
to say to the Premier, given the fact that the decision by the federal
government about the weather office in Gander, about the port in Stephenville,
and now it looks like the federal Minister of Fisheries is looking to reconsider
a decision regarding the crab industry in New Brunswick that he has not done for
the cod industry in this Province. I want to ask the Premier, can he relate to
the people of the Province how his actions and his public display of fighting
with our federal minister impacts in other areas, that we may be able to achieve
things for the Province that may be barred by this public display that is taking
place lately?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I spoke with our representative in the federal cabinet again this morning,
indicating that, as always, we are fully willing and prepared to meet anywhere,
anytime, to deal with issues jointly and collectively, to help him get the right
and proper decisions made in Ottawa for Newfoundland and Labrador.
At this point in time, as I have indicated before, we will have to move on
and try to do what we can to get the decisions reversed, because the fundamental
difficulty is that what this House of Assembly voted on last Wednesday,
unanimously again, which is that the decision to close should be reversed, that
particular decision, in this case the seeking of the reversal, is not supported
by the federal minister. It is supported by every other federal MP, Liberal and
Conservative, it is supported by our senators in Ottawa of all stripes, it is
supported by everybody here, it is supported by everybody involved. The
unfortunate
part is that he is the one person who has a voice inside the federal
cabinet system and is still not willing to say that the decision should be
reversed. I indicated to him again that I think that is a mistake, that we
should focus on getting the decision reversed, that there is an example now in
New Brunswick where there is an opportunity to have a negotiation. We would
gladly enter into a negotiation.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. the Premier now to conclude his answer, quickly.
PREMIER GRIMES: We will continue to work with him anytime we can and hope
that he will be supportive of everybody else who is speaking for Newfoundland
and Labrador.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader. Time for one quick
question.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, last week we saw the appointment of the former
Public Relations Director of the Premier's office to the Bull Arm Corporation.
While the Public Service Commission is not necessarily involved in the
competition for such political appointments, it is normal procedure, I would
think and I would assume that it is, that in appointing somebody to such an
important position that some sort of search would have occurred to ensure that
the skills set that you wanted, to ensure that the corporation achieved its
objectives and goals in terms of attracting business to that site, were
achieved.
I would like to ask the Premier this question today: What sort of search did
you undertake, as Premier of the Province, to ensure that the skills set that
you required to keep the Bull Arm site up and running and going and attracting
more business is the one that you got?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Quite an extensive search actually, for over two years since Mr. Gordon Gosse
left the position. Sometimes you realize that the solution is right under your
nose, and I am glad it was this time.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Question Period has ended.
The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. LUSH: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I could raise a point of privilege, but I am not going to raise
a point of privilege. I am just going to raise a point of order and it comes out
of Question Period when the Leader of the Opposition was questioning the
Minister of Justice and the Attorney General.
During the response, the Attorney General said something to the effect that
he was not a witness in a court of law, to which the Leader of the Opposition
uttered: Not yet. Quite audible, Mr. Speaker.
I want to say that one of the basic freedoms, one of the basic privileges,
one of the basic rights of each member of this House, is the privilege and the
right to speak. The freedom of speech, Mr. Speaker, that is basic. That is
fundamental. That is probably the primary privilege of all members of the House,
to have the freedom to speak without fear of threat, without intimidation, and I
suggest that these remarks, "not yet", suggested a threat. These
remarks suggested intimidation. I would suggest that these remarks were not
appropriate and totally unacceptable to this House, and the hon. the Leader of
the Opposition should be asked to withdraw them.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
First of all let me say, Mr. Speaker, that this is more, in my view, a point
of frustration by the Government House Leader as opposed to a point of order. It
is completely in line with the comments made yesterday by the Minister of Works,
Services and Transportation, questioning the member's character. It is
completely in line yesterday with the Member of Gander questioning and casting
aspersions on the member's character. What, in fact, was said - and the leader
just said - yes, he was pointing out that if the Premier continued to advocate
civil unrest, and if the Minister of Justice was true in what he said today, and
I have no reason to believe that he was not, that he does not take any direction
from the Premier, then his comments today, if a court action were to ensue, he
could be called as a witness. It was not a threat. It is a statement of fact.
Finally, let me say this. When the water rights reversion act was introduced
in this House of Assembly, one of the reasons used by a judge by the name of
Boris Lansky of why that act was ruled unconstitutional and that we could not do
it was because of statements made by members in this House. So, there was no
threat of intimidation. There was no threat whatsoever given to the Minister of
Justice.
The Premier would also know, in a former capacity as the Minister of Tourism,
that statements that he made in this House that he, himself, ended up in court
and had to explain the statements he made in this House. So, Mr. Speaker, to
suggest that intimidation or fear is being used by the Leader of the Opposition
is unwarranted, it is unjustified, and frankly it is a bit upsetting.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair will take the point raised by the hon. the Government House Leader
under advisement.
Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Gander.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS KELLY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the Social Services Committee have considered the matters to
them referred and have approved, without amendment, the Estimates of Expenditure
of the following departments: Education; Youth Services and Post-Secondary
Education; Human Resources and Employment; Labour; Health and Community
Services; and Justice.
Thank you.
On motion, Report of Social Services Estimates Committee, carried.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. George's-Stephenville East.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. K. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, the Resource Committee have considered the
matters to them referred and have approved, without amendment, the Estimates of
Expenditure of the following departments: Fisheries and Aquaculture; Forest
Resources and Agrifoods; Mines and Energy; Tourism, Culture and Recreation;
Industry, Trade and Rural Development; and Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs.
Thank you.
On motion, Report of Resource Estimates Committee, carried.
Notices of Motion
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's West.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS S. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I would like to put forth the following private member's resolution:
WHEREAS the School Lunch Association makes available nutritious lunches on a
daily basis to 3,000 school children from twelve schools in the St. John's
area, and an average of 1,600 children avail of this service each day; and
WHEREAS it is known that more than 26 per cent of children in this Province
live in poverty and go to school hungry each day; and
WHEREAS it has been demonstrated in several reports, including the report of
the all-party committee of this House, that hungry children do not have the same
capacity to learn which often results in them dropping out of school and,
thereby, perpetuating the cycle of poverty; and
WHEREAS the School Lunch Association, unless it receives $30,000 funding
immediately, will have to shut down at the end of May, thus depriving these
children from receiving nutritious lunches during the month of June;
THEREFORE
BE IT RESOLVED that the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador
provide the necessary funding to allow the School Lunch Association to carry on
for the month of June, the end of the school year.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Petitions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I once again stand and present a petition to the House.
To the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland in Parliament
assembled. The petition of the undersigned residents of the Province of
Newfoundland and Labrador ask the House of Assembly to accept the following
prayer:
We, the undersigned citizens of St. Mary's Bay Center area hereby draw your
attention to the unsatisfactorily and unsafe conditions as they now exist on
Route 90 in St. Mary's Bay.
WHEREAS it is the duty of government, through the enactment and enforcement
of the Highways Safety Act to protect its citizens not only from commuters but
also from unsafe highways;
WHEREAS the safety of the travelling public must be the number one priority
of any government;
THEREFORE your petitioners ask that government provide the necessary funding
to carry out the much-needed repairs to Route 90.
As in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.
Once again, Mr. Speaker, I am being presented with a petition from residents
of St. Vincent's, Peter's River, St. Stephens, Gaskiers, Point La Haye, St.
Mary's, Riverhead, Mall Bay, and other communities in St. Mary's Bay. These
people have brought forward this petition because of what they believe to be the
unsafe conditions of Route 90, which basically runs from St. Catherine's down
into St. Vincent's area. They are very, very concerned about the safety
conditions.
Mr. Speaker, I had an opportunity on Sunday past to be in that area, and
spend most of the day there, and certainly the roads are in desperate shape.
When you see school buses travelling over these roads every morning and evening,
ambulances, emergency vehicles and the general public, it is certainly a major
concern of safety in that area.
I say to the minister who is here in the House today, this is one of, I
think, seven now, petitions that I have presented here in the House on behalf of
the people of this part of my constituency. The problems with the roads in that
area have been front and centre in letters that have gone to the minister, I am
sure - I have received copies of those - and from telephone calls to my office,
and petitions and letters to my office also.
The concern is very genuine for the simple reason, Mr. Speaker, that much of
this road is climbing up on thirty years of age, and there are some major
concerns and some major safety issues there. I think it is time, as we try to
develop a major tourism industry in that area and create the Irish Loop, it is
important that the necessary funding be found to resurface and to repair some of
this road in the St. Mary's Bay area.
Mr. Speaker, over the past number of years, many, many people have decided to
travel into that area, visit the area, and any funding that would be required is
something that we certainly look forward to.
Mr. Speaker, we realize that there is only $23 million in the provincial
roads program this year. I guess that begs the question of why we do not have -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. MANNING: By leave, Mr. Speaker, just to finish up?
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. MANNING: Mr. Speaker, it begs the question of a federal-provincial
agreement, certainly understanding fully that the cost of maintaining the roads
in this Province is immense, that there should be all efforts put into making
sure that we have a federal-provincial agreement to address some of the
concerns, not only in St. Mary's Bay and through other parts of the District
of Placentia & St. Mary's but throughout the Province of Newfoundland and
Labrador.
I think it is important and it is certainly lax on government's part not to
have this proposal put forward to the federal government at the present time,
because I think without that money we are going to have deterioration of the
roads throughout the Province and certainly unsafe conditions for the travelling
public.
I urge the minister to do what he can, Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the people
who have presented this petition to me. I, on their behalf, have presented it
here in the House and certainly hope that funding will be forthcoming to address
some of the concerns that are raised through the presentation of this petition
in the House today.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Harbour Main-Whitbourne.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HEDDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today in this hon. House to present a petition from a very special
group of individuals, a class of students at the Queen Elizabeth Regional High
School in Foxtrap. The petition, basically, is presenting a prayer to this House
asking the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to reinstate the Labrador
Cultural Exchange Program that was previously in existence. I believe, Mr.
Speaker, that would have been back in the mid-1980s that this Labrador Cultural
Exchange Program was into effect.
This particular group of students, Mr. Speaker, are high school students at
Queen Elizabeth High. They are involved in a literature class, and were spurred
on by their dealing with the novel Whiteout , which deals with the
Labrador peoples. This novel spurred them on to give them a desire to not only
read about the particular culture but also to experience it first-hand. They did
arrange an exchange program with a group of similar high school students in
Labrador. Everything was set, Mr. Speaker, for them to exchange: for that one
group from Labrador to come down, spend some time in the Foxtrap, Queen
Elizabeth area, and, of course for this group to travel to Labrador as well.
I can say to you, Mr. Speaker, obviously the cost of this endeavor was a
substantial cost, but the students were willing to fund raise and had hoped that
they could get some support, not only from corporate sponsors but also from the
Government of Newfoundland and Labrador. The discovered, of course, that there
was no funding directly given to this sort of Labrador cultural exchange.
Myself and my colleague from Conception Bay South did visit with the class at
Queen Elizabeth, and they certainly were a very enthusiastic group of young
people who clearly articulated their disappointment that the government, and in
particular the Department of Education, had cancelled this particular program
and had nothing in place to encourage such a cultural exchange. Again, their
argument was that there seemed to be a fair bit of funding for special groups,
be it sports groups, drama groups, different specific groups, but not for the
average high school student, the average class who were looking at increasing
their knowledge and understanding of Labrador culture.
They are calling upon the government, and in particular the Minister of
Education, to review this whole situation and to make provision, Mr. Speaker,
for the reinstatement -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. HEDDERSON: - of the Labrador Cultural Exchange Program.
With those words, Mr. Speaker, I certainly would congratulate these young
people for bringing this petition forward and I take great pleasure in
presenting it to the House.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to present a petition on behalf of a large number of residents
from the Burin Peninsula, that reflects concern from other areas of the Province
as well concerning the lack of funding for drugs required to treat MS.
I have presented these petitions, Mr. Speaker, many, many times in this House
of Assembly, calling upon this government to take action to treat residents of
this Province who are affected with MS the same as people in every other
province of this country are treated, and that is by introducing a co-op drug
prescription program that will help alleviate the high cost purchase of these
drugs.
Mr. Speaker, this government to date has failed to recognize the need that
people in our communities have, who are affected with MS. Mr. Speaker, every
other jurisdiction in this country has a program in place that offers their
residents some kind of financial help.
Mr. Speaker, this government, after years and years of neglect, have still
failed to recognize the need for this to happen in our Province. We have people,
Mr. Speaker, in our Province today who unfortunately are faced with a situation
where they have to make a choice to provide drugs to treat their illness or to
provide things that their family need. Nobody, Mr. Speaker, nobody in this
Province today, should have to make choices like that.
Mr. Speaker, people who are getting up each morning and going to work are
working, basically, to pay for a drug that they need to treat their disease.
Mr. Speaker, I know of people, personally, who are contemplating leaving this
Province. People with good-paying jobs are thinking of leaving this Province and
relocating simply and solely on the basis of having some protection for them and
their families, and help in the purchase of these drugs. I do not think for a
minute, if this government followed through on a study that looked at the cost
of providing these drugs up front, that would help people through their illness,
compared with what happens down the road if people are not treated and end up
institutionalized, where the cost is certainly much greater than the treatment -
so the treatment, Mr. Speaker, should be looked at and viewed by this government
as a cost-saving method in the long run.
It is incumbent upon this government to come forward, to do what is right for
the people of this Province, to introduce a plan that not only covers people who
are seniors and people who are on income support, which we fully agree with, but
there are a whole lot of other people who are caught in the middle, people who
are going to work each day and having to use their paycheques to purchase a drug
to treat their illness -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. COLLINS: Just by leave to clue up, Mr. Speaker?
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. COLLINS: - or else, Mr. Speaker, to make the choice of providing a
drug for themselves or to look after their family's immediate needs.
It is unheard of, in our society today, where a person would have to cash in
all of their RRSPs, spend any money they may have been able to put aside for
their children's education, reduce themselves to income support level before
this government will step in and provide any assistance. That day should be long
gone, Mr. Speaker, and I call upon this government to do the right thing now. It
is never too late to do what is right, and they should bring forward changes to
the drug prescription plan in this Province to cover people who find themselves
in this position.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. YOUNG: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I would like to present a petition to the House on behalf of parents in
Parsons Pond. First of all, I will read the prayer to the House:
To the hon. House of Assembly of Newfoundland and Labrador in legislative
session convened, the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland and
Labrador.
WHEREAS the closure of St. Francis Elementary, Parsons Pond, will adversely
minimize educational opportunities for students; and
WHEREAS keeping St. Francis Elementary, Parsons Pond, operational will
provide the best possible education for all students;
WHEREFORE your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador
to ensure that St. Francis Elementary School remains open in order to provide
the best possible education for all students.
And as in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.
Today, Mr. Speaker, parents in Parsons Pond are out seeking legal help
because the school board had seen fit to close down this school just after two
years ago coming in and looking at the school, and at that time they made a
commitment to those parents that they would not revisit closing down St. Francis
unless there was a drop in enrolment, and from that day until now the enrollment
has stayed consistent. There was no drop, but just two years later we are out
here looking - and the reasoning the school board is putting out is that there
was a drop from 1996, and that was certainly not what was understood by the
parents in Parsons Pond. They felt they did have some time, they had some
stability, and that they could bring their families home. That is what happened,
in many cases, in Parsons Pond. It was that they came home and had settled in
Parsons Pond, and one of the main reasons was because of the education offered
in St. Francis, K-6.
St. Francis is what I would consider a high-end education that is offered
there, and it is all because of the involvement of the parents in that school.
There is a great, intense involvement from parents. Even parents whose children
have gone on to high school have maintained and kept in the program with the
school there. Actually, even the president today, her children have gone on to
high school but yet she has maintained an association with that school.
The point that I went out and made when I made a presentation to the school
board - I felt this was a high-end education we were getting in St. Francis -
was the fact that they offer a swimming course. One of the results of that
swimming course was, there was a child who fell over a wharf but had the
knowledge to know what it was to stay afloat until help came, instead of
panicking and drowning. What a contribution that is to a community, when a child
is with us today because of training they had from the program that was offered
with volunteers in that high school.
Quality, daily, physical education. There are only a handful of schools in
this country, not in this Province but in this country, that can go out there
and claim what this school has. They have achieved this in eight of the past
years. Every year they have made that achievement by meeting and surpassing
certain thresholds for daily education. As we know and talk about in our schools
today (inaudible) -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. YOUNG: By leave, Mr. Speaker?
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. YOUNG: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Preschool, 100 per cent by volunteers offered, very good. Special poetry
program: With those students, poetry has been published in a book that has gone
throughout the country. Can you imagine growing up and having that as your
achievement?
Fertilized fish eggs: To go out there and understand the ecosystem the way
they have, I challenge many people to stand and say the schools in their
district have such things. This is the education that those children are
getting. I think it is a first-class education. I am sorry to lose this for just
$52,000. That is the price tag that was on this kind of education. Those
volunteers were able to make this school from an average school to a very
high-end education for their children.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, before calling Orders of the Day, I would like to
move that the House not adjourn at 5:30 p.m.
MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that this House do not adjourn at
5:30 p.m. All those in favor, aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.
Motion carried.
Orders of the Day
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. LUSH: Motion 1, Mr. Speaker, the motion that this House approves in
general the budgetary policy of the government - the Budget Speech.
MR. SPEAKER: Motion 1.
The hon. the Member for Windsor-Springdale.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HUNTER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Again, it is a pleasure to get up and have a few words to say about the
Budget, and have a good debate on some of the issues we feel are important to us
as members in this House, and bring out some of the things in our districts that
people expect us to do.
Some of the issues that I like to speak about, Mr. Speaker, have to deal with
funding and financing, and to keep the government accountable as to how they
spend the taxpayers' dollars in this Province and make sure that things are
done in a fair way: that considers all the MHAs, that gives us all an
opportunity to have input into the way the government spends money in this
Province, and to make sure that we are listened to when we approach government
to give advice on where we think dollars should be spent.
Mr. Speaker, I would just like to refer back to one issue last fall that was
very important to rural Newfoundland. That was with respect to the job creation
program, when many of the districts in the Province availed of funds available
to get people into the workforce so that they can have insurable hours of work.
Most of us, over the years, had input into what projects we felt were important
for our districts. Last fall, I think not only myself but other members were
denied the opportunity to have input into the department on where dollars should
be spent.
I will give you one example in my district. I asked the minister to look into
having funding approved during the job creation period, to do some work on a
very needed project, which was relocating a T'Railway bed in the Town of Grand
Falls-Windsor, and that was the Lingard Trail, the old CNR rail bed. The
minister kept putting me off. When crunch time came, to see if we could get this
project done, the Premier's office interfered. The Premier's office came out
into the district, talking to different communities and wanted to know what the
communities would like to see done with job creation, totally ignoring what I
suggested and recommended to the minister. The minister was just trying to put
me off for a period of months.
In the meantime, while he was putting me off, and while I was trying to get
some worthwhile projects done, the Premier and his officials, or his staff in
the building in Grand Falls-Windsor, was out trying to undermine what the people
wanted and undermine what the MHA heard - what I heard - were important projects
to be done. The Premier himself got involved in that process.
I do not think that is very fair to all the MHAs in this Province and the
people of this Province. We had a project that was a very worthwhile project and
needed to be done. Over the last four years, we have been lobbying government,
and tourism many times, and the Minister of Municipal Affairs many times - and
Lands. We have been trying to get this project done, but the Premier's office
interfered and came out and took that money away from the area in which it
should have been spent. Madam Speaker, they took the money and used it on
roadside cutting.
I said to the minister: This project should be funded. He said: What do you
want to do, increase the deficit of the Province? I said: No, it won't cost
you anything. Just take the money that you are going to use - a very small
portion of the money that you are going to use - for job creation, and invest in
this very worthwhile project to help probably fifty families on that street to
alleviate a problem of dust and noise. I was totally ignored.
I think that is unbelievable, in this day and age, when we are elected to
represent our people and to be listened to by ministers and to be listened to by
the Premier, not ignored, turned away and do a project that this government has
done that was totally useless in some areas. When workers were out working in
four and five feet of snow, cutting roadside, where there were no moose
problems. They could have taken the same amount of money that was used in some
of these areas and done some very, very good worthwhile projects; some projects
that people would have been happy with. Fixed problems that could have been
fixed; did not do it. The Premier decided that he wanted to have the say
himself.
I would like to say to the Minister of Environment - he is wondering why it
did not happen - could he tell me why it did not happen?
MR. HEDDERSON: He just said it. It is because you are in Opposition.
MR. HUNTER: Oh, because I am in Opposition it did not happen. So you are
going to say to everybody in this Province, if you are not in government then we
are not going to help you. Is that what you are saying?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. HUNTER: Oh, boy. That is unbelievable.
Then we have ministers on that side who cannot give us good reasons why they
do things and do not do things. I will give you another example, Madam Speaker.
I have been working on the issue, with a person in my district, involving oil
tank replacements. Nobody can tell me why Newfoundland and Labrador Housing is
not funding the replacement of oil tanks in the Province again, except that it
is not done through the department now. It is done through the Department of
Finance. We will give up to a $300 grant towards your oil tank replacements but
the policy is that they will replace a furnace under emergency repair. They will
repair a furnace, or replace it because it is an emergency. You cannot get heat
if a furnace is not working, but when it comes to the oil tank: oh, we cannot
replace that. We cannot do anything about that. That is not an emergency.
If you do not have oil than the furnace does not work. Doesn't it make
sense that if there is a program in place for emergency repair, then wouldn't
they do anything which involves getting the heat back on? I do not understanding
why the government works in that way. I do not understand why the ministers do
not come out and say: you know, take our advice. We give good advice. We may be
in Opposition, I say to the minister, but don't we give good advice to you
sometimes? Just because we are in Opposition, you do not want to take our
advice? It is what the people of the Province want. People are looking to you to
do the things that are necessary. They need things done and they are looking to
you, as a government, to help them. I have to say to these people today who need
help, that I am sorry, the government does not have its act together when it
comes to doing what needs to be done. They believe that one thing is an
emergency but the other part of this scenario is not an emergency. So, it is
unbelievable why we do things like that.
I say to the Minister of Environment, even in your own department you spend
thousands of dollars putting together programs and doing investigations on doing
regionalization on landfill sites, and you only half do the job. We have
communities out there which are involved in a regional landfill site that is
probably going to work pretty good when it is up and running. The concept is
good, I agree, but when you go out there you must put a plan in place where the
existing sites are totally cleaned up, not half done. We have to find funds in a
program like that, that if you are going to do the job, do the job; don't half
do it. Don't be giving lip service to the people you are trying to mislead
because they understood, in the beginning, that when you started this program it
was going to be done. I am referring to the landfill site in Green Bay, when it
first was discussed, then it was believed that the department would finish the
job of cleaning up the sites. This was supposed to be a model site for the rest
of the Province. That did not happen. It is not finished. The departments are
going around in circles.
With the Department of Tourism, today there is hardly anybody in there now
who is in control of decisions and issues dealing with the T'Railway. When I
first started this three years ago, investigating this
section - one kilometre
section of the T'Railway in this Province - I dealt with a gentleman in the
department. A year after that gentleman has gone, all the files were gone. What
happened to the files? Because of the relocation program in the Province - which
the government spent thousand and millions of dollars to relocate different
departments - somewhere along the way the files disappeared. I do not know if
they fell off the truck between here and the west coast, they may have, but
there is a lot of money invested in this relocation. Last year I called looking
for the same gentleman -
MR. TAYLOR: I would say they are in Beaton's desk.
MR. HUNTER: They are probably in the furniture that the former Minister
of Industry and Trade has in his desk somewhere. If they can find the desk they
might find the files.
I say to the minister, you have to have a long-term plan for issues in this
Province, like the T'Railway, to tell the people where you want to go and what
should be done.
Last year I phoned again and dealt with a different fellow on this matter. I
phoned again last week and he is gone. I phoned again this week and nobody knows
who is in charge anymore. The cutbacks and cutbacks and cutbacks and the
important issues are put on the back-burner.
MR. E. BYRNE: I thought they said they wouldn't be.
MR. HUNTER: That is right. Exactly, I say to the Opposition House Leader.
The government said they would not have cutbacks. They have not done cutbacks,
but try to find the right people to talk to when you want to discuss important
issues in the Province and try to give advice to the government on what should
be done. All you get from the government is interference by the Premier. The
Premier interferes with us, as MHAs, keeps us out of public buildings -
MR. MERCER: What?
MR. HUNTER: Absolutely, I say to the Minister of Environment - kept me
out of a public building where I was invited to discuss a very important issue
with the people of Exploits.
AN HON. MEMBER: What happened?
MR. HUNTER: When I arrived for the meeting I was asked by the Premier's
office worker there to come outside the building. They would not let me in the
building.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. HUNTER: This is a public office that I was kept out of. The Premier
showed up -
AN HON. MEMBER: You were invited just like he was.
MR. HUNTER: Absolutely, I was invited to the meeting to listen to their
concerns about the bridge that was going to be - taken over a river in Exploits.
The Premier showed up and asked me what I am doing there. I did not know what he
was getting around to, so I said I was there to attend the meeting like he was
in the town office. He said: no, the meeting is in my office but you are not
getting in.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. HUNTER: Not getting in a public office, paid for by the taxpayers of
this Province.
AN HON. MEMBER: Who invited you?
MR. HUNTER: The cabin owners group. They had a chairperson and a
spokesperson who called me, herself, invited me to the meeting. All I did, out
of courtesy, because I am the critic for forestry and this involved a bridge
over a river in the wilderness involving cabin owners. Of course, the Premier
jumped out of his car and came up savage with me because I was there in his
district. Unbelievable! I could not believe the calibre of a person in this
Province, running this Province, to treat a colleague of his, a fellow House of
Assembly representative for the people of this Province, to treat me the way he
treated me. He even had his driver ask me to leave the parking lot. He told his
driver to remove me from a public parking lot. Unbelievable! The way he treated
my colleague in Placentia; the way he treats all of us as MHAs. It is
unbelievable. We are colleagues in this House fighting for the one cause -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HUNTER: - fighting to help our constituents - to make life in this
Province better for the people of this Province and to work together. What did
we get? Now, I am only speaking from my experience. I do not know if my
colleagues here have other experiences. I do not appreciate any colleague in
this House who tries to stop me from doing my job; interfering.
The Premier keeps doing this all the time, showing up and not respecting the
wishes of the people. He keeps interfering with job creation programs when there
are people in my district and other districts depending on these programs to see
some worthwhile, really good projects done. You can go out in some of the
districts - I have seen it for myself - driving along the side of the road and
you see sticks sticking up four and five feet high. Why can't we prevent that?
Why can't we do these type of projects with government with taxpayers'
money? Why can't we plan ahead to make sure that when we spend dollars we
spend them wisely, we get the best bang for the buck? It is not hard to do. You
do not have to increase the deficit by doing a job right. You probably could
save money by doing a job right, but you do not take the advice of people who
know what is good for their districts.
I say to the ministers over there: You have bold initiatives all right. You
have had times when it was good to make noise on certain issues. For your own
benefit you could do it, but when it comes to making the right decision at the
right time for the people of this Province you hide away. You hide away behind -
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. HUNTER: Sure you do. You hide away behind your boards. You hide away
behind different things that you should not be hiding away on. You should deal
directly.
When I first came into this House I could go on that side and talk to any
minister about any issue in my district and be given the courtesy of my opinion.
It is hard to do that today. You do not treat all colleagues in this House alike
and you should, because I am representing, and we are representing people in
this Province who depend on us to get the message to you, as government. I would
suspect that is the way it would work in reverse. If we were there and you had
to come to us with issues in your district then we should have the courtesy to
sit down and talk to you and find a solution to the problem; not play politics.
Playing politics with peoples lives. Playing politics on issues that are
important.
Then we talk about small business, Mr. Speaker. We have the leader of our
party here who is a businessman. I have a lot of respect for a man who has a
good business sense. I have been in business twenty-five years. I know what it
is like to start in business and I know what it is like to come up in business.
When you go into business in the Province you start down here and work your way
up. Our leader, Danny Williams, is a man that anybody could admire for where he
went in life. If you do not admire him it is because you do not understand. The
man did well, and I respect him for that. I am sure there are a good many people
in this Province who respect Danny Williams for being a good businessperson. You
cannot find employees of his former business who do not agree that he was a good
employer and a good boss.
I say to you, Madam Speaker, if we are going to encourage small businesses in
this Province today we have to find ways of helping small businesses, not
putting stumbling blocks in the way and not charging businesses exorbitant costs
in fees. Only last week we saw an increase in a small logging company that cuts
firewood, increased their royalties by over 300 per cent. Now, I cannot believe
that. If you are going to increase fees, you do it at a modest increase at
different times. When you start increasing fees, licensing fees and royalty fees
and all kinds of other fees, that double, triple and quadruple, some now with a
300 and 400 per cent increase over last year - unbelievable! If that is the way
you are going to balance the budget in this Province, on the backs of the small
businesses, and not only on the backs of the small businesses but the small
businesses have to pass on that cost, and then the consumers in this Province -
and a lot of consumers in this Province are low income, fixed income people who
need a fair price on the goods they get in this Province.
This government decides that they want to get more money out of the back
pockets of the residents of our Province, tax, levy, increased fees to small
businesses that they know have to pass the cost on to the consumer. By doing
that, you are putting small businesses out of business, you are making it very
difficult for small businesses. I don't mind fighting for small businesses in
this Province, because I was a small business person for twenty-five years and I
know what these small businesses have to put up with. I know how hard it is to
try to make ends meet, balance their books and everything else, and make a
profit at the end of the year.
We certainly don't need governments who are going to find ways to penalize
small businesses for wanting to come from here to here. It takes time to grow a
business and to nurture a business. We should be politicians who are responsible
enough and sensitive enough to see the concerns of the small businesses, see the
problems that they are facing, and make sure that we don't try to take money
out of the back pockets of the people in this Province through small businesses.
That is not fair, and I think government should take a second look at any issue
involving increasing taxes or license fees or anything involving small
businesses.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MADAM SPEAKER (M. Hodder): Order, please!
MR. HUNTER: Madam Speaker, if we don't take it seriously enough to make
sure that rural Newfoundland gets a fair share of dollars in job creation, in
good, solid, sensible projects, to make sure that people in rural Newfoundland
get a chance at sustaining their living in rural Newfoundland - that is what it
is all about. It is all about us finding a way to help people live in this
Province, not finding a way to hurt them or take money out of their pockets or
making situations hard, where they cannot stay in this Province and have to
leave. I see it every day. I see U-Hauls on the Trans-Canada Highway all the
time when I am driving.
MADAM SPEAKER: Order, please!
I remind the hon. member that his time is up.
MR. HUNTER: By leave, Madam Speaker?
MADAM SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. HUNTER: Just one minute to clue up.
MADAM SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. HUNTER: There are a lot of issues, I know, that we are all concerned
about, but we are, on this side of the House - I am, I can't speak for
everybody - to make sure that you treat me and my people and my district fairly
and as equally as anybody on your side. I won't stop fighting for my
constituents, I will say to the ministers over there. We have to continue
fighting for our constituents in our districts, and I hope that you will see to
treat us fairly in the future.
Thank you, Madam Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MADAM SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. BUTLER: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.
I, today, feel honoured to stand in this Budget Debate and use up my time and
make a few comments, and also touch on some of the issues that I have heard back
and forth in this hon. House over the last couple of days.
I am very proud to stand and say that I support the Speech from the Throne
and also the Budget Speech.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. BUTLER: Madam Speaker, in that Budget, this government has a vision,
and a vision that will be carried out. Just to touch on a few, we state very
clearly that this government is accessible and accountable to the people. We
have a strong social agenda, a strong and secure economy based on Voisey's Bay
and White Rose; and, then again, with the settlement in the courts of the
boundary dispute between Newfoundland and Nova Scotia. We also speak very highly
on education and health care and regional economic development. We are also very
strong on promoting our Province for tourism, and partnering with the Aboriginal
people and all other people on the Labrador Coast to see that land is developed
and taken care of.
All to often I hear from Opposition members that it is time for a change.
Madam Speaker, I say, a change to what? I want to state very clearly - and I
honestly believe this - unless they lay it on the table fairly soon, and I am
not talking about their Blue Book, which will come down during the election, I
am talking about their policies on issues that are ongoing today. I can speak
freely and say this with a true heart, that the gentleman who is running against
me in the Port de Grave district went and knocked on a door and the constituent
said: I would love to sit down with you and discuss your policies. He said: I am
sorry. At this point in time, I do not have any.
I think that says it all. If they do not have any policies, what are we going
to change to? We are always holding up the Red Book and the Blue Book. I want to
refer back to the Blue Book of 1988. I hate standing up -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. BUTLER: I say to hon. members opposite, they are always referring to
the Red Book back over the last twenty years. I just want to touch on this Blue
Book, the Throne Speech of 1988. Is this the policies that we are going to
change back to? Because I say, Madam Speaker, if you read this book, the words
health or health care are not mentioned. Here we are, talking about the health
care that we have today, and they are always complaining about it. They are
always telling us that we are a tired, old government. I say to them: Yes, the
Liberal Party has been in power for fourteen years, but this government is only
two years old, this Administration.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. BUTLER: This Administration is the same age as what I am, I say to
the hon. Member for Conception Bay South.
Just to touch on the fishery, all too often you hear that we are not dealing
with the fisheries issues, we are not in relationship with our cousins in
Ottawa. Madam Speaker, if you go back to 1988, this is just three years, three
to three-and-a-half years, prior to the major controversy in this Province with
the moratorium, the closure of the fishery. In their Throne Speech, they were
talking about revitalizing the offshore fishery, bringing in middle distance
fleets, upgrading seventy-five to 100 fish plants. Is that listening to the
people? Is that what we are changing back to? They did not listen to the
fishermen back at that time. Is this what we are changing back to, I say?
Then, they go into talking about businesses that were ongoing, the money that
was put into businesses. They are talking about reactivating the Baie Verte
Mine. Then, they go into diversification, Madam Speaker, and they bring up this
wonderful word, Sprung. These were the resources that they were referring to
that was going to revitalize this Province. I am sad to say, Madam Speaker,
according to the Auditor General's report, this government, over the period of
time from 1992 to the year 2002, had to write off some funds because of those
two companies. Baie Verte Mines, $47.5 million, and they were bragging in 1988
about revitalization of the mine. I am not saying the mine should not have been
revitalized, because it meant dollars and bread and butter for the people of
that area.
Then we talked about Sprung, diversification. We diversified to the tune of
$15.2 million being written off. Then we go into education. I cannot help but
read the
article that appeared in The Compass a little while ago, this
past week, April 29, when my hon. friend from Harbour Main-Whitbourne said, and
I quote, "the Liberals are clearly not proud of what they have
done..." with regard to education, "... but they can't hide the fact
they are the ones responsible for hurting students in Newfoundland and
Labrador...". I say shame, Madam Speaker, shame!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. BUTLER: When he stands in his place and talks about the failure of
our students today in the subject of mathematics, back when this Budget Speech
came down in 1988, you were in power then for sixteen years, and in this Budget
Speech they referred to bringing in a task force to see what was happening in
this Province with a failure rate that they had on the go for seventeen years.
Then, again, now it is a big issue.
Then we go to one thing that I thought to be fairly upbeat, and that was
their conflict of interest policy - conflict of interest - where it stated very
clearly that the basis of a conflict of interest legislation is disclosure of a
member's interests that poses real or potential conflict of interest.
I know, Madam Speaker, where we stand on this issue, but I have to say that I
have questions about the other side.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. BUTLER: Madam Speaker, what I am referencing, number one - and I know
where the leader of their party stands in Ottawa, because he stated very clearly
when he called upon Paul Martin to come clean, to leave out any possibilities of
a conflict of interest.
Madam Speaker, we heard the Leader of the Opposition today saying that the
law is the law. Well, I agree with him. The law is the law. But, then again,
when I read this here the Election Act was violated.
MR. REID: By whom?
MR. BUTLER: By whom? By the Leader of the Opposition. I would not mind,
Madam Speaker, if somebody did something wrong over a period of a week or two.
This happened in early 2002 with regards to the $25,000 loan to the party, and I
think that is wonderful. I would love to be able to loan our party $25,000, but
if I had it, they would not be able to take it. I cannot believe that the Leader
of the Opposition did not know the Election Act. Then he goes on to say: it is a
minor issue. Madam Speaker, any issue that has a $1,000 fine and/or a
three-month jail sentence is not a minor issue.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. BUTLER: Madam Speaker, then we go into the issues pertaining to
business and professional interests. I mean, where do you draw the line? The
gentleman - and we all know. We saw it in the papers - how he is still
advertising, still keeping businesses ongoing. I am just wondering, is there a
conflict of interest? I am not saying that there is but there may be.
Madam Speaker, the other issue comes down to a Statement of Disclosure. Both
the Member for Humber West and myself were elected on the same day, back on June
19, 2001. Each and everyone of us in this hon. House had to file a Statement of
Disclosure. However, there were months gone by when you could not get any
information pertaining to the Leader of the Opposition. Still, Madam Speaker,
that was in June, and November of that same year the hon. the Opposition House
Leader stood in his place and asked questions with regard to Freedom of
Information, when full well the information about him was not available to
whomever was looking for it.
Madam Speaker, the final issue I would like to touch on is with regard to
business ventures. Hon. members on both sides agree, and I agree, he was a
successful businessman. According to the disclosure he was involved in a lot of
businesses. I admire him for that. The man is going to honoured, I do not know
if it is this week or next week, and I applaud him for that. When you look over
the list I am wondering, and I think he has to come clean and let us know what
he is involved in while he is in political life. There are all kinds of
companies listed and they are all listed by the names of 10835 Newfoundland
Limited, 10718 Newfoundland Limited, 10981 Newfoundland Limited. So, I believe
that the hon. Leader of the Opposition has to come forward and state the case. I
am not saying there is a conflict of interest but it should be made clear if
there is or if there isn't. I ask the Leader of the Opposition to clarify
those issues. Tell us how his situation is any different from that of Paul
Martin.
MR. E. BYRNE: A point of order, Madam Speaker.
MADAM SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Opposition House Leader on a point of order.
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Madam Speaker.
It is important today, after just listening to the Member for Port de Grave
raising questions, asking the Leader of the Opposition to clarify issues that -
I am not saying he said it was a conflict of interest but I ask him to clarify
issues. Whether he is doing or attempting to do, he should know this or ought to
know, that he is speaking about Conflict of Interest legislation that governs
every member in this House, Madam Speaker. That legislation is carried out by an
independent office called the Office of the Chief Electoral Commissioner and the
Office of Commissioner of Members' Interests. That member and that person who
was appointed by government has made a judgement on all of us in this House,
including the Member for Port de Grave, including myself as the Member for
Kilbride, including the Member for Humber East, including the Member for
Twillingate, including the Member for Waterford Valley, including the Member for
Trinity North.
Madam Speaker, the point is this: that the Member for Commissioner's
Interest has determined that all members in this Legislature, all forty-eight of
us, which includes the Member for Port de Grave and the Member for Humber West,
are not in conflict of interest at all. I ask the member - because what he has
said is very serious. It is casting aspersions on a particular member's
character in this House. It is leaving the impression and the outright
suggestion that the Leader of the Opposition is some how in conflict. I ask the
member to withdraw, Madam Speaker, because he has done that. I will give him the
opportunity to do so.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MADAM SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. LUSH: Madam Speaker, the Opposition House Leader is up on a specious
and spurious point of order, to say the least.
I got up on a point of order a little earlier today, Madam Speaker, saying
that probably the greatest privilege that we have in this House is freedom of
speech. To listen to the hon. Opposition House Leader he would remove that
freedom of speech simply because one has to list our interests with the Chief
Electoral Officer. It does not mean that members cannot comment upon these kinds
of things in this House. I think the hon. gentleman was only commenting upon
what he thought might be some extensive holdings, some extensive involvement. I
do not think he was talking about conflict of interest, or that there was
conflict of interest or there was not conflict of interest. He was talking about
all of the business involvements of the Leader of the Opposition and making some
pertinent comments about that. For the hon. Opposition House Leader to suggest
that the member was impugning motives is certainly a large stretch, Madam
Speaker. I would say all the hon. Opposition House Leader was doing was to try
and cut into the time of my hon. friend who was making a good speech, Madam
Speaker, and he should be permitted to continue without the interruptions of the
Opposition House Leader.
MADAM SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Madam Speaker.
The fact of the matter is, whether the Government House Leader wishes to
acknowledge it or not or I wish to acknowledge it or not, or any other member in
this House wishes to acknowledge it or not, the record of Hansard will clearly
show and acknowledge what I am saying is true. Right now, in terms of - the
Government House Leader has talked about freedom of speech and we are guaranteed
that right in this House of Assembly, with some limits, Madam Speaker, as
prescribed in our own Standing Orders and as prescribed in Beauchesne's
Parliamentary Rules and Forms , as prescribed in Marleau , the 6 th
edition that governs the precedents of our House, as prescribed in the journals
of the House of Commons, and as prescribed, if we need to go there, in the
ultimate House of Commons, the Parliament of Britain.
The fact of the matter is, when it comes to conflict of interest legislation
that is in place right now, which members operated under, we put in place an
independent officer and independent commissioner to make those judgements
according to the legislation. It is not for a particular member in this House,
whether that is me or the Member for Port de Grave or anybody else, to stand up
and cast aspersions and impute motives on a member in this House, in this case
the Leader of the Opposition, when the Commissioner of Members' Interests has
already stated that nobody was in conflict.
Madam Speaker, if that is the way this place is going to operate, then we
have a more serious situation on our hands than we care to remember. I would
like to have a ruling on this point of order, because the Member for Port de
Grave is absolutely out of order on this issue.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MADAM SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. LUSH: Madam Speaker, I am not going to take up any more of the
valuable time of the House, other than to say the only one out of order is the
Opposition House Leader. He is clearly out of order.
Because there are declarations made to our independent officer of the House
does not mean that they can ever be raised in this House, does not mean that
somebody is not allowed to raise some matter in a moderate form or in an
interrogatory form.
I do not think that the member was questioning either the integrity of the
Leader of the Opposition or the independent officer. The hon. member was making
some comments about extensive holdings. That is quite allowed, that is quite
permissible in this House, to refer to holdings or business involvement. I do
not think we can say, because we have an independent officer, that someone is
not allowed to make some reference to what a person's business involvement
might be without being harangued by the Opposition House Leader.
MADAM SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Madam Speaker, if that is what happened, if, as the
situation described by the Government House Leader happened, then we would have
no cause for a point of order, but that is not what happened.
The Member for Port de Grave - and Hansard will clearly show - suggested that
the Leader of the Opposition and Member for Humber West come clean. About what?
It was casing aspersions, and he did.
Madam Speaker, the Minister of Environment said, and so he should, the fact
of the matter is, we all must; it is a demand of the act. The independent
commissioner, called the Commissioner of Members' Interests, demands it of us.
If we don't, we get reported. If we don't report it and we don't lay out
everything for everybody, the will of this House could put any action on any of
us, including: disbarment from this House; dismissible from this House; charges
before the Supreme Court of Newfoundland and Labrador; taking away benefits,
financial and otherwise.
Now, when the Member for Port de Grave stands up in his place and suggests
that another member, in this case the Leader of the Opposition, the Member for
Humber West, come clean, in my book and in the world that I live in, he is
imputing a motive that somehow he did not.
Madam Speaker, I ask you to ask the Member for Port de Grave to withdraw his
comment, that scurrilous attack that he has just made on the Leader of the
Opposition. It is absolutely unwarranted and disgusting, to be honest with you.
It is scandalous!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MADAM SPEAKER: The Chair will take the point of order under advisement
and report back to the House.
The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Madam Speaker.
I would like to make it very clear that what I said - and, yes, probably I
did say the words, "come clean", but what I did say prior to that was:
It is important, not only that there be no conflict of interest, it is important
that there be no appearance of conflict of interest.
I never said the hon. Leader of the Opposition, or the Member for Humber
West, was in a conflict of interest, Madam Speaker.
I do not mind standing here. I am a gentleman enough to withdraw those words,
come clean, if that is what satisfies the hon. members opposite.
MADAM SPEAKER: Order, please!
I remind the hon. member that his time is up.
MR. BUTLER: Just to close, Madam Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: No leave.
MADAM SPEAKER: No leave granted.
The hon. the Member for Waterford Valley.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. H. HODDER: Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker, the budget policy of this government was contained in the
Speech from the Throne, and yesterday in the House the Government House Leader
referred to the Speech from the Throne and was quite proud of the fact - in his
words - that his government had a plan. As a matter of fact, he quoted from the
Speech from the Throne, and he quoted from the Budget document as well.
Yesterday, the Government House Leader said, among other things: I am
indicating that the plans of this government are clear. They show clearly the
vision of this government and many documents - and pointed out how two major
documents showed the plans of this government were the Economic Strategic Plan
and the Social Strategic Plan.
Madam Speaker, when it comes to planning, this government has a very poor
track record. As a matter of fact, I have an accumulated document that is
twenty-two pages long which indicates the faulty planning that this government
has placed before the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. That document was
completed just last year.
I have also done up some notes here, which I compiled in the last day or so,
sitting here in the House, and it speaks to the point of the lack of planning by
this government. Before I get to that, I want to refer to a letter which is on
my desk from the MP for Labrador, Lawrence O'Brien. The MP for Labrador,
Lawrence O'Brien, wrote the Premier on the first day of May, just five or six
days ago. The letter talks about, and is in response to the call by the Premier
for Lawrence O'Brien to resign from the federal Liberal caucus.
Madam Speaker, I want to just read to this House Lawrence O'Brien's
assessment of the Premier, and Lawrence O'Brien's assessment of what this
government has done to this Province. I will read a paragraph from page 2.
"In all honesty, I have to say that in the past seven years I have
encountered no end of frustration from a provincial government which is, as far
as anyone can tell, completely inept at dealing constructively with other
governments, whether municipal, other provinces, or federal."
That is what Lawrence O'Brien says. Lawrence O'Brien, your Liberal
federal colleague in the federal House, says in his "...seven years I have
encountered no end of frustration from a provincial government which is, as far
as anyone call tell, completely inept at dealing constructively with other
governments, whether municipal, other provinces, or federal." What an
indictment after what the House Leader said yesterday about all the good
planning.
Madam Speaker, let me read on to another paragraph. He says, "Rather
than work to influence federal decisions in advance..." - that is what
planning is about - "...your government..." - meaning this Liberal
government, words of Lawrence O'Brien - "...prefers to wait out bad news
announcements which you can condemn, after the fact."
In other words, Lawrence O'Brien is saying this government has no plan. He
says, talking to the Premier, "...your government prefers to wait out bad
news announcements which you can condemn, after the fact." What an
indictment and lack of planning by this particular Administration.
Let me read another paragraph. Lawrence O'Brien writes as follows,
"Rather than put concrete proposals forward to the federal government - for
instance on the Trans-Labrador Highway - you rail against the federal government
for rejecting so-called proposals' which have never been made, and for not
putting enough money into a project which it has funded to the tune of nearly 90
cents on the dollar."
Now, Madam Speaker, Lawrence O'Brien, the federal Liberal colleague of
these people on the other side of this House, the federal Liberal colleague who
you should be working with -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MADAM SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. H. HODDER: - who this government here should be working with, should
be putting forward plans, and what does Lawrence O'Brien say about planning
and putting things forward?
For example, he is talking here about the Labrador Highway. Lawrence O'Brien
is saying that this