British Columbia Hansard — 23 June 2020, p.m., Issue 330 (41st Parliament, 5th Session)

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British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Fifth Session, 41st Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES (HANSARD) Tuesday, June 23, 2020 Afternoon Sitting Issue No. 330 THE HONOURABLE DARRYL PLECAS, SPEAKER ISSN 1499-2175

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Janet Austin, OBC Fifth Session, 41st Parliament SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Darryl Plecas EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................... Hon. John Horgan Deputy Premier and Minister of Finance............................................................................................................................Hon.

Carole James Minister of Advanced Education, Skills and Training..................................................................................................... Hon. Melanie Mark Minister of Agriculture.........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Attorney General.................................................................................................................................................................Hon.

David Eby, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ............................................................................................................ Hon. Katrine Conroy Minister of State for Child Care...................................................................................................................................... Hon. Katrina Chen Minister of Citizens’ Services...................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Anne Kang Minister of Education ............................................................................................................................................................ Hon. Rob Fleming Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources ..................................................................................................... Hon. Bruce Ralston Minister of Environment and Climate Change Strategy............................................................................................. Hon.

George Heyman Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development ..............................................Hon. Doug Donaldson Minister of Health .....................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Adrian Dix Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation ......................................................................................................... Hon.

Scott Fraser Minister of Jobs, Economic Development and Competitiveness.............................................................................Hon. Michelle Mungall Minister of State for Trade...............................................................................................................................................Hon. George Chow Minister of Labour ...................................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Harry Bains Minister of Mental Health and Addictions............................................................................................................................ Hon. Judy Darcy Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing.................................................................................................................. Hon. Selina Robinson Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ........................................................................................................... Hon.

Mike Farnworth Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction..............................................................................................Hon. Shane Simpson Minister of Tourism, Arts and Culture.....................................................................................................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure................................................................................................................ Hon.

Claire Trevena LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition................................................................................................................................Andrew Wilkinson, QC Leader of the Third Party .................................................................................................................................................................Adam Olsen Deputy Speaker................................................................................................................................................................................

Raj Chouhan Assistant Deputy Speaker............................................................................................................................................................. Simon Gibson Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ................................................................................................................ Spencer Chandra Herbert Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ...........................................................................................................................................

Kate Ryan-Lloyd Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel.............................................................................................................................. Seunghee Suzie Seo Clerk Assistant, Parliamentary Services...........................................................................................................................

Artour Sogomonian Clerk Assistant, Committees and Interparliamentary Relations ..............................................................................................Susan Sourial Senior Research Analyst ................................................................................................................................................................. Jennifer Arril Senior Research Analyst ...................................................................................................................................................................

Karan Riarh Acting Sergeant-at-Arms..................................................................................................................................................................Greg Nelson

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal) ......................................................................... Penticton Bains, Hon. Harry (NDP)................................................................ Surrey-Newton Barnett, Donna (BC Liberal) .....................................................Cariboo-Chilcotin Beare, Hon. Lisa (NDP)..............................................

Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Begg, Garry (NDP) .......................................................................Surrey-Guildford Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal) .........................................................Peace River South Bond, Shirley (BC Liberal)...........................................Prince George–Valemount Brar, Jagrup (NDP).......................................................................Surrey-Fleetwood Cadieux, Stephanie (BC Liberal)........................................................

Surrey South Chandra Herbert, Spencer (NDP) .......................................Vancouver–West End Chen, Hon. Katrina (NDP)...................................................... Burnaby-Lougheed Chouhan, Raj (NDP) .................................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Chow, Hon. George (NDP).................................................Vancouver-Fraserview Clovechok, Doug (BC Liberal) ..................................Columbia River–Revelstoke Coleman, Rich (BC Liberal) ................................................................ Langley East Conroy, Hon.

Katrine (NDP)...........................................................Kootenay West Darcy, Hon. Judy (NDP) ............................................................. New Westminster Davies, Dan (BC Liberal) ........................................................... Peace River North de Jong, Michael, QC (BC Liberal) ..............................................Abbotsford West Dean, Mitzi (NDP)................................................................ Esquimalt-Metchosin D’Eith, Bob (NDP) ................................................................Maple Ridge–Mission Dix, Hon.

Adrian (NDP)....................................................... Vancouver-Kingsway Donaldson, Hon. Doug (NDP)...................................................................... Stikine Eby, Hon. David, QC (NDP).............................................. Vancouver–Point Grey Elmore, Mable (NDP).........................................................Vancouver-Kensington Farnworth, Hon. Mike (NDP) ........................................................Port Coquitlam Fleming, Hon. Rob (NDP) ......................................................

Victoria–Swan Lake Foster, Eric (BC Liberal).............................................................Vernon-Monashee Fraser, Hon. Scott (NDP) ..................................................Mid Island–Pacific Rim Furstenau, Sonia (BC Green Party) .............................................Cowichan Valley Gibson, Simon (BC Liberal) ...................................................Abbotsford-Mission Glumac, Rick (NDP).........................................................Port Moody–Coquitlam Heyman, Hon. George (NDP) ................................................Vancouver-Fairview Horgan, Hon.

John (NDP) ................................................ Langford–Juan de Fuca Hunt, Marvin (BC Liberal) ........................................................ Surrey-Cloverdale Isaacs, Joan (BC Liberal) .......................................... Coquitlam–Burke Mountain James, Hon. Carole (NDP).................................................... Victoria–Beacon Hill Johal, Jas (BC Liberal).................................................Richmond-Queensborough Kahlon, Ravi (NDP)............................................................................... Delta North Kang, Hon.

Anne (NDP)......................................................... Burnaby–Deer Lake Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal)..............................................................................Shuswap Larson, Linda (BC Liberal) .............................................. Boundary-Similkameen Lee, Michael (BC Liberal) ........................................................Vancouver-Langara Leonard, Ronna-Rae (NDP) ..................................................... Courtenay-Comox Letnick, Norm (BC Liberal).............................................

Kelowna–Lake Country Ma, Bowinn (NDP) .....................................................North Vancouver–Lonsdale Malcolmson, Sheila (NDP) ........................................................................Nanaimo Mark, Hon. Melanie (NDP) .......................................Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Martin, John (BC Liberal)....................................................................... Chilliwack Milobar, Peter (BC Liberal)..................................... Kamloops–North Thompson Morris, Mike (BC Liberal) ........................................... Prince George–Mackenzie Mungall, Hon.

Michelle (NDP)......................................................Nelson-Creston Oakes, Coralee (BC Liberal) ............................................................ Cariboo North Olsen, Adam (BC Green Party)............................ Saanich North and the Islands Paton, Ian (BC Liberal).......................................................................... Delta South Plecas, Hon. Darryl (Ind.) ........................................................... Abbotsford South Polak, Mary (BC Liberal) ............................................................................. Langley Popham, Hon.

Lana (NDP)............................................................... Saanich South Ralston, Hon. Bruce (NDP) ............................................................Surrey-Whalley Redies, Tracy (BC Liberal) .......................................................Surrey–White Rock Reid, Linda (BC Liberal) ................................................. Richmond South Centre Rice, Jennifer (NDP) ............................................................................. North Coast Robinson, Hon.

Selina (NDP) .........................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Ross, Ellis (BC Liberal)................................................................................... Skeena Routledge, Janet (NDP) ....................................................................Burnaby North Routley, Doug (NDP) ................................................. Nanaimo–North Cowichan Rustad, John (BC Liberal) ................................................................Nechako Lakes Shypitka, Tom (BC Liberal) ..............................................................

Kootenay East Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ......................................... Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Hon. Shane (NDP)..................................................Vancouver-Hastings Sims, Jinny (NDP) ........................................................................ Surrey-Panorama Singh, Rachna (NDP) .........................................................Surrey–Green Timbers Stewart, Ben (BC Liberal) ................................................................. Kelowna West Stilwell, Michelle (BC Liberal)...............................................

Parksville-Qualicum Stone, Todd (BC Liberal)..........................................Kamloops–South Thompson Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal)........................................ West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Sullivan, Sam (BC Liberal)................................................ Vancouver–False Creek Sultan, Ralph (BC Liberal) ...........................................West Vancouver–Capilano Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal) ................................................................. Fraser-Nicola Thomson, Steve (BC Liberal)......................................................

Kelowna-Mission Thornthwaite, Jane (BC Liberal) ...............................North Vancouver–Seymour Throness, Laurie (BC Liberal) .......................................................Chilliwack-Kent Trevena, Hon. Claire (NDP) ................................................................North Island Wat, Teresa (BC Liberal) ................................................. Richmond North Centre Weaver, Dr.

Andrew (Ind.)................................................Oak Bay–Gordon Head Wilkinson, Andrew, QC (BC Liberal) ................................Vancouver-Quilchena Y ap, John (BC Liberal)............................................................Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Mission............................................................................Simon Gibson Abbotsford South....................................................................... Hon. Darryl Plecas Abbotsford West......................................................................

Michael de Jong, QC Boundary-Similkameen...................................................................... Linda Larson Burnaby–Deer Lake....................................................................... Hon. Anne Kang Burnaby-Edmonds................................................................................Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Lougheed .................................................................... Hon. Katrina Chen Burnaby North .................................................................................

Janet Routledge Cariboo-Chilcotin .............................................................................Donna Barnett Cariboo North.................................................................................... Coralee Oakes Chilliwack ............................................................................................... John Martin Chilliwack-Kent ...............................................................................Laurie Throness Columbia River–Revelstoke .........................................................

Doug Clovechok Coquitlam–Burke Mountain.................................................................. Joan Isaacs Coquitlam-Maillardville ...................................................... Hon. Selina Robinson Courtenay-Comox................................................................... Ronna-Rae Leonard Cowichan Valley .............................................................................

Sonia Furstenau Delta North.............................................................................................Ravi Kahlon Delta South ..................................................................................................Ian Paton Esquimalt-Metchosin ..............................................................................Mitzi Dean Fraser-Nicola .........................................................................................

Jackie Tegart Kamloops–North Thompson .............................................................Peter Milobar Kamloops–South Thompson..................................................................Todd Stone Kelowna–Lake Country .....................................................................Norm Letnick Kelowna-Mission ..............................................................................

Steve Thomson Kelowna West ..........................................................................................Ben Stewart Kootenay East.......................................................................................Tom Shypitka Kootenay West........................................................................ Hon. Katrine Conroy Langford–Juan de Fuca .............................................................. Hon. John Horgan Langley .....................................................................................................

Mary Polak Langley East.........................................................................................Rich Coleman Maple Ridge–Mission.............................................................................. Bob D’Eith Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows............................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Mid Island–Pacific Rim................................................................ Hon. Scott Fraser Nanaimo......................................................................................

Sheila Malcolmson Nanaimo–North Cowichan............................................................... Doug Routley Nechako Lakes........................................................................................ John Rustad Nelson-Creston ................................................................... Hon. Michelle Mungall New Westminster........................................................................... Hon. Judy Darcy North Coast ...........................................................................................

Jennifer Rice North Island.............................................................................. Hon. Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale................................................................... Bowinn Ma North Vancouver–Seymour........................................................Jane Thornthwaite Oak Bay–Gordon Head............................................................Dr.

Andrew Weaver Parksville-Qualicum.......................................................................Michelle Stilwell Peace River North ................................................................................... Dan Davies Peace River South ................................................................................ Mike Bernier Penticton ................................................................................................. Dan Ashton Port Coquitlam...................................................................... Hon.

Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Coquitlam.......................................................................Rick Glumac Powell River–Sunshine Coast....................................................... Nicholas Simons Prince George–Mackenzie....................................................................Mike Morris Prince George–Valemount ..................................................................

Shirley Bond Richmond North Centre..........................................................................Teresa Wat Richmond-Queensborough.........................................................................Jas Johal Richmond South Centre ......................................................................... Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston ...................................................................................

John Y ap Saanich North and the Islands .............................................................Adam Olsen Saanich South .............................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Shuswap...................................................................................................... Greg Kyllo Skeena........................................................................................................... Ellis Ross Stikine....................................................................................Hon.

Doug Donaldson Surrey-Cloverdale ................................................................................ Marvin Hunt Surrey-Fleetwood.....................................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey–Green Timbers........................................................................Rachna Singh Surrey-Guildford......................................................................................Garry Begg Surrey-Newton ..............................................................................Hon.

Harry Bains Surrey-Panorama ...................................................................................... Jinny Sims Surrey South ................................................................................ Stephanie Cadieux Surrey-Whalley ......................................................................... Hon. Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock .............................................................................. Tracy Redies Vancouver-Fairview.............................................................. Hon.

George Heyman Vancouver–False Creek........................................................................ Sam Sullivan Vancouver-Fraserview...............................................................Hon. George Chow Vancouver-Hastings ............................................................... Hon. Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington....................................................................... Mable Elmore Vancouver-Kingsway..................................................................... Hon.

Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara................................................................................ Michael Lee Vancouver–Mount Pleasant..................................................... Hon. Melanie Mark Vancouver–Point Grey ............................................................Hon.

David Eby, QC Vancouver-Quilchena........................................................Andrew Wilkinson, QC Vancouver–West End .....................................................Spencer Chandra Herbert Vernon-Monashee ....................................................................................Eric Foster Victoria–Beacon Hill.................................................................. Hon. Carole James Victoria–Swan Lake.................................................................... Hon. Rob Fleming West Vancouver–Capilano...................................................................

Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Sea to Sky................................................................Jordan Sturdy Party Standings: BC Liberal 42; NDP 41; Independent 2; BC Green Party 2

CONTENTS Tuesday, June 23, 2020 Afternoon Sitting Page Routine Business Tributes ................................................................................................................................................................................... 11741 James W . Mann L. Reid Orders of the Day Second Reading of Bills ........................................................................................................................................................ 11741 Bill 4 — Budget Measures Implementation Act, 2020(continued) M. de Jong B. Stewart S. Bond Hon. C.

James Bill 6 — Mines Amendment Act, 2020 Hon. B. Ralston T. Shypitka R. Coleman S. Furstenau M. Morris P . Milobar D. Barnett D. Davies J. Rustad R. Sultan Bill 4 — Budget Measures Implementation Act, 2020(continued) Hon. C. James

TUESDAY , JUNE 23, 2020 The House met at 1:32 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Routine Business Tributes JAMES W . MANN L. Reid:I rise today to pay tribute to James W . Mann. As an advocate for the rights of people with the lived experi- ence of dementia, he has been acknowledged as the single most influential person in Canada for countering negative stereotypes and promoting an inclusive society in which persons with dementia can make an active and meaning- ful contribution. For these accomplishments, Jim Mann will be awarded a 2020 honorary degree from the University of British Col- umbia.

Please join me in offering our congratulations. Orders of the Day Hon. M. Farnworth:I call continued second reading debate on Bill 4, Budget Measures Implementation Act. [R. Chouhan in the chair.] Second Reading of Bills BILL 4 — BUDGET MEASURES IMPLEMENTATION ACT, 2020 (continued) M. de Jong: Before the break we were talking, and I was referring to the provisions of Bill 4 and the various taxation statutes it purports to amend.

I was making the argument and the observation that asking the House to lend support to a piece of legislation dealing with taxation instruments that affect the bulk of the revenues govern- ment receives over the course of a fiscal year, without the benefit of up-to-date information about the extent to which those revenues have been impacted by the onset of the pandemic and are expected and forecast to continue to impact the receipt of revenues, is unfair but also irrespons- ible. [1:35 p.m.] I referred to the reference in the bill to the Carbon Tax Act, the Employer Health Tax Act, the Income Tax Act and the likely prospect for revenues in those areas to drop.

Now, in some instances, there will already be in the pos- session of the government information confirming what the impact of the pandemic has been for months past. There will certainly be information and advice relating to the range of impact anticipated going forward. The gov- ernment and the Finance Minister thus far have purposely chosen to withhold that information. Again, I’ll make this case and this observation.

When the House convened for a day-long session in March at what we now would refer to as the onset of the pandemic, the minister and the government asked for and received great licence to alter the spending side of the budget that had been tabled just a few weeks prior to that and secured approval from the House to expand spending into some all-important areas with skeletal information. I think the minister endeavoured to provide what she could by way of information and assured the House there would be an opportunity to review the decisions that would be made with respect to those significant changes.

The House, as I have mentioned, responded by granting that authority, realizing several things — realizing that for the fiscal year ahead, something that governments in British Columbia have sought to achieve would not be achieved. We would be spending more operationally on programs and supports for people than the government has at its disposal based on the revenues being received. I think the public understands that. I think the public accepts that. The opposition certainly accepted that.

We are now nearly four months further down the road, and legislation that would otherwise have been debated very close to the tabling of the budget is back before the House in dramatically different circumstances. Now, while the government is comfortable and likes to talk about its spending initiatives, it and the minister have been very, very hesitant to share information about the revenue side. Like any organization…. I mentioned earlier and described the scene of a family looking to the year ahead and making decisions about what it was going to spend and, in certain circumstances, what it was going to borrow.

There is surely a correlation between the answers to those two questions and what it has at its disposal revenue-wise — what it’s going to earn, what that family is going to earn. But the government doesn’t want us to know that. The minister has said: “I’ll be providing a quarterly update in September. ” Well, that’s fine. That, to be fair, equates with the regular budgetary cycle. But these are very irregular times. The change has been swift and dra- matic, and the circumstances have changed accordingly.

I think it behooves the minister and the government to return the trust to the House and the people of B.C. that she received from the House and the people in B.C. when she sought authority to dramatically amend the spending side of her budget back in March. [1:40 p.m.] I’ve heard the minister say: “I’ll talk about that on July 14. ” She hasn’t provided much in the way of detail about what she intends to disclose then. I know that she has data about what the impact has been on retail sales. I know that she has data on what that has translated into with respect 11741

to the provincial sales tax, which is another piece of legis- lation dealt with in Bill 4 before the House. But she is ask- ing this chamber to vote on this legislation. I don’t know if she intends to disclose that data on July 14. I would hope she would. I can’t imagine any reason for her not to. Deputy Speaker:Thank you, Member. M. de Jong: Oh, I think I have been granted licence to continue on behalf of the opposition. Deputy Speaker:Okay, your licence is granted then. Carry on. M. de Jong:Thank you very much.

She’s provided us with no assurance that she will dis- close that information, even though it is fundamentally relevant to the question before the House and the interest that British Columbians will have. Just before the break, I was talking about the Insurance Premium Tax Act which, in the minister’s budget, is anti- cipated to account for $660 million in revenue in the com- ing year. I made some observations about what has happened to insurance rates, particularly involving the strata title world and the condominium sector. That, iron- ically, may be an area where revenue to government goes up.

That is problematic for an entirely different set of reas- ons, given the crisis that is confronting so many residents of condominiums. I know that the minister has updated forecasts and information relating to the Insurance Premium Tax Act. Why won’t she share that information? Why won’t she show the trust in British Columbians and the House that the House and British Columbians gave to the government back in March? Bill 4 touches upon the Logging Tax Act and the Miner- al Tax Act.

In the four months that have passed since Bill 4 was tabled, areas that were already suffering negatively, the resource sector, have since also been impacted dramatic- ally by the COVID pandemic. They’ve also been impacted by softwood, by international trade disputes, by market access issues related to COVID, and that, undoubtedly, has altered the revenues. Again, in table 1.3 of the minister’s budget, she has provided numbers, as Finance Ministers always do, for what the anticipated revenues will be. They have changed.

The minister and the government have updated informa- tion and forecasts about how they have changed. Bill 4 talks about the Motor Fuel Tax Act. The budget that the minister presented in February, to which Bill 4 directly applies, forecast for the year 2021: $1.024 billion in motor fuel tax revenue. That will not happen. It’s the ultimate good-news, bad-news story. The good news is the price of fuel went down. The bad news is no one can drive anywhere. We all saw that phenomenon. [1:45 p.m.] It has had undoubtedly profound impacts on the reven- ue that government will receive.

I think British Columbi- ans understand that. I certainly do. I will say again, so that the minister is under no illusions, that the crisis that has befallen, that has led to this dramatic change, the pandem- ic, isn’t the fault of this government — or any government in Canada, for that matter. But it has impacted those gov- ernments. All I am asking, and all I think British Colum- bians deserve, is honesty from the government about the nature of those impacts, because it influences the decisions that we have to make, going forward. In the case of the motor fuel tax, this is not entirely spec- ulative.

The minister today knows what happened to rev- enue from motor fuel tax in the months of March, April and likely May. She gets briefed on that. I expect she gets briefed on it, if not daily, then certainly weekly. To say, “I will provide a full update through the regular course of the budget cycle in September, ” doesn’t cut it, is unfair and, in my view, irresponsible. What is the impact? What has the impact been with respect to the Motor Fuel Tax Act thus far? What are the minister’s officials telling her, those very able and capable people within the treasury branch who brief the minister on a daily basis?

What are they telling her about the likely impact on revenues to government from motor fuel tax going forward through the rest of the fiscal year? If the Finance Minister has some argument for why dis- closing that information is problematic or why it’s none of the people’s business or why there are other interests that are best served by not disclosing that information, given the dramatic change in circumstances that we are facing, then she should make that argument. But thus far, she has been silent. Thus far, she has said nothing. Bill 4 includes amendments to the Property Transfer Tax Act.

In the minister’s budget at page 28, she makes the point. She says, on behalf of the government, that the government anticipates, for the fiscal year ’20-21, receiv- ing $1.586 billion in property transfer tax revenue. Most assuredly, that has changed. Most assuredly, it has gone down. How much has it gone down? The Minister of Finance won’t know for certain how much it has gone down until after the end of the fiscal year. I grant you that.

But she has a good idea, certainly a better idea than anyone in this House and anyone else in British Columbia, about how much it has gone down thus far from when she made her budget, and she is refusing to tell people. If I’m wrong, if she can point to somewhere where she has provided that information, then I’ll stand up and withdraw that remark. But I don’t think she has.

I don’t think she has been very specific at all about what she intends to say on these mat- ters on July 14. [1:50 p.m.] If her response in closing this debate is “I’m going to tell you all of that on July 14, ” then why are we debating this bill now? Then why aren’t we waiting until July 14, when 11742 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, June 23, 2020

we can have this information? I’m not certain, again, what interest would be compromised by delaying the debate on this bill until after that information has been disclosed to the public and to this House. Then the big one that I mentioned, and it is…. There are significant provisions of Bill 4 dealing with the provincial sales tax and the Provincial Sales Tax Act. According to the minister’s budget tabled in February, the government is relying on that taxation instrument to receive $7.9 billion in revenue. That number has gone down. Most assuredly, it has gone down.

The minister has been briefed on what took place with respect to retail sales in March and April. She should share that information because that will directly influence the number. She has been provided with advice, and it’s likely a range. No one can know for certain that instead of $7.9 billion…. She has been provided with a reduced forecast for the balance of the fiscal year — and likely a range.

Thus far, the government’s and her approach to this has been to say to British Columbians: “Well, you’ll just have to wait and see, and I’ll get around to telling you about that in September. ” I don’t think that’s good enough. If we’re in this together, then we should be sharing the information we have together. Retail sales have declined for reasons we all understand. How much have they declined? What is the forecast impact on government revenues going forward?

Although we now inhabit a time when I think people are accepting of the notion that government will spend more than it receives in revenue, and I think people are accepting of that, they are not, I believe, prepared to give the gov- ernment a blank cheque and say: “Well, you just spend whatever you want. ” There is still, surely, a link between how much we are going to borrow, because that’s how we’ll do this.

Well, I guess, in the case of the government, how much are we going to borrow; how much are taxes going to increase, in the case of this government; and what are the reven- ues going to be to government in the balance of the fiscal year?

I don’t think these are unreasonable requests to make of the government and the minister — that they would be forthright in bringing legislation before the House, in seeking passage of legislation to enact a budget that the minister herself has acknowledged is no longer in keeping with the economic circumstances that the province is con- fronted by and use that argument to justify asking for and receiving from the House the licence to spend far in excess of what this budget allows for originally. [1:55 p.m.] In that same spirit, I believe it is entirely appropriate, reasonable and essential that the minister show similar good intentions, similar forthrightness by disclosing to British Columbians the details of where we are at — the genuine impact this pandemic is having with respect to the revenues that she and the government forecast receiving.

There are other instruments available, by the way, to the government. I mentioned in my earlier remarks the era several decades ago when numbers and budget sched- ules were manipulated for blatantly political purposes. We have in this province happily made, particularly over the last two decades, significant changes to prevent that from occurring. One of the mechanisms that was developed to shine a brighter light of transparency on the budgeting process was the creation of the Economic Forecast Council.

The Minister of Finance, like Finance Ministers before her, touts the advice and, quite appropriately so, says: “I am building a budget and the budget forecasts and partic- ularly the revenue forecasts around the advice I receive from the Economic Forecast Council. ” These eminent eco- nomists from across Canada who gather and provide not always a consensus but a range of views about what is hap- pening with the economy. Has the Finance Minister consulted the forecast coun- cil? She’s not obliged to do that legislatively. She is obliged to do so with respect to the preparation of the budget.

But in these extraordinary times, where she and her budget, the government’s budget, rely on forecasts that are now entirely out of date, entirely inaccurate — and the forecast council authors would acknowledge that openly — has she reached out to them and said: “What are your new numbers?” If she has done that, is she prepared to share that infor- mation with the public? If she hasn’t done that, why for heaven’s sake not?

In this extraordinary time, armed with this instrument that has served the province so well, hasn’t she made use of it to solicit the views of the forecast coun- cil to say: “What are your predictions for retail sales going forward, given what we know about the state of the eco- nomy today”?

It would certainly provide, I think, British Columbians with a greater measure of confidence to know that they were being given an accurate set of facts about the state of the fiscal situation in British Columbia — a greater degree of confidence than they can have now, armed only with the assurance from the government and the Finance Minister that goes something like: “Well, just trust us. ” I am, as I have said now repeatedly in the course of this, not just understanding but accepting and supportive of the proposition that there will be times in the life of a coun- try, the life of, in our case, a province, where extraordin- ary events descend upon us that require government to take extraordinary measures and where it will fall to gov- ernment to absorb a greater share of the impact.

That will translate into spending more than the government receives in revenues. [2:00 p.m.] That is, obviously, the classic definition of a deficit. We are in one of those times. There is no argument. We are, I am going to say, armed better than most jur- isdictions in Canada to address and provide that support, Tuesday, June 23, 2020 British Columbia Debates 11743

and there is a reason for that. As I’ve listened to the Fin- ance Minister talk about the strength of British Columbia, talk about the strength of our economy, talk about the strength of provincial books, which are now serving us well, I have waited — I didn’t expect to hear it; nor do I think I have — for acknowledgment of the reasons we enjoy that strength. Governments previous to this one took steps to ensure that when that rainy day arrived, our debt had been reduced — in the case of our operating debt, virtually eliminated.

I guess I would not be honest if I didn’t say I was dis- appointed when I heard the Finance Minister say back in February, on the day she tabled the budget, that the days of hoarding budgetary surpluses are over. I was disappointed to hear her say that. I wonder if today she regrets having said it, because no one hoards budgetary surpluses; they pay down debt. It is that debt room that the Finance Minister and the government happily can draw upon today. I’ll say that again.

It is that debt room, which accrued because previ- ous governments paid down debt, virtually eliminated the operating debt, that we can now draw upon on this rainy day. And it’s not just a rainy day; it’s a monsoon. But it’s probably asking too much for any acknowledgment that the strength we enjoy and our ability to respond to this cir- cumstance were enhanced because of those measures and those steps. Today British Columbians, I think, are accepting of the proposition that the government will need to spend more than it receives in revenue.

But they are entitled to know how much it’s going to spend, and they are entitled to know how much in revenue it expects to receive. The gov- ernment and the minister refuse to provide the latter information yet asked this House to breathe life, through Bill 4, into a budget that she acknowledges is now com- pletely inaccurate and completely out of date. As I said, I think that’s irresponsible. I think that’s unfor- tunate. I think it’s disrespectful to British Columbians. So for all of those reasons, I am troubled by the government’s attempt now to seek passage and support for Bill 4.

The minister, at some point during the course of the debate, will have an opportunity to respond to some of my concerns if she chooses to. If she stands here and says to the member for Abbotsford West: “Well, that’s all well and good, but I’m going to disclose all on July 14.

I’m going to tell British Columbians what is happening to revenue, what is happening to retail sales, what our updated fore- casts are and what that translates into, into reduced pro- vincial sales tax revenue. [2:05 p.m.] “I am going to tell British Columbians what happened through the months of March, April and May with respect to the sale of motor fuel and the impact that had on rev- enue to government from the motor fuel tax. I am going to tell British Columbians what our forecasts are, given the escalating unemployment situation, to revenue from per- sonal income tax.

I am going to tell British Columbians what our forecasts are with respect to revenue from the employer health tax, because if you’re not an employee, you’ve got no employer to pay the health tax. “I am going to tell British Columbians all of those things to the best of the ability, because I have been briefed on it, and I will share that information. I trust British Columbi- ans enough to share that information with them…. ” If the minister says that in response to my commentary, I will be gratified. I will be very pleased.

But thus far, she and the Premier and her colleagues have steadfastly refused to disclose that information or be specific at all about what information, what updates they will provide, short of saying, “Well, there will be a first quarter update in September after this House has adjourned, after Bill 4 has been voted upon, after the spending estimates have been debated over the course of the next five or six weeks. ” So for those reasons, I have unburdened myself in terms of my concerns and trouble. I thank the House for its patience and listen with interest to those that follow. B.

Stewart:I definitely found that very interesting — especially the member for Abbotsford West, having had this portfolio and been in government for some time. I think that there was a lot of sage advice there for all of us as well as the government. I want to rise today to continue the conversation on Bill 4, the Budget Measures Implementation Act. This bill is an important part of the budget process, and it put into law the changes that the government is making to taxes in Brit- ish Columbia.

Reflecting on this bill in light of the pandemic impacts, many of our previously held assumptions have led us to a whole new line of questioning that we will be exploring in the committee stage of this bill. We are now in a period where we need to put an urgent focus on economic recov- ery. So we proceed in our examination of this bill, and we will be using that lens. Our fiscal and economic position has completely changed because of the COVID-19 pandemic. The fin- ancial picture that the Finance Minister laid out for us in February no longer accurately reflects the state of the province’s finances.

Therefore, we do need to look at an updated look at our fiscal position. Frankly, going into estimates starting this Thursday, it behooves me that the government is not preparing to share that information with British Columbians or this House. We live in a different world than we did in February, and we need to see exactly what the impact has had on our fin- ances. What are the…? Nobody can see the future, but we know that we look at these things with a view to a growing economy and expanded tax revenue.

Frankly, I think that the member for Abbotsford West has laid it out very succinctly — that the idea is of having a nest egg. I can’t believe that I remember those remarks, back when the budget was introduced, about hoarding. 11744 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, June 23, 2020

Gone are the days of hoarding. I’m thinking: “Here we are, and we just recently gave an extension or a spending of $5 billion just to deal with this crisis, which is more than the surplus we turned over in May of 2017. ” The Finance Minister has told British Columbians that you will have this information on July 14. But what will that entail? We’re asking for a fiscal update, not just the fig- ures on the debt. We don’t know if we will get the full pic- ture on July 14.

Frankly, the public deserves to have that information. [2:10 p.m.] We unconditionally supported this government’s neces- sity to spend emergency funds, $5 billion, on March 23. We would expect, in return, that there would be some transparency so that we can help work with the govern- ment in a transparent manner to help build the economic recovery that everybody knows and the public is demand- ing. I know it is extremely tough on businesses throughout British Columbia, especially in areas of tourism events that are hosted throughout the Lower Mainland, but certainly in the Kelowna area. We lost the Memorial Cup.

The whole activity cost the city and the local hockey team that was hosting it significant resources, with no opportunity to recover from that. How we are going to recover is what we need to build a plan for. In order to best serve this province and debate the legis- lation before us, the House needs to be able to take an accurate look at our finances — but not only that. The people of B.C. deserve to know the truth about the budget and where we stand. The Finance Minister is getting reg- ular financial updates, and she said so herself. “I’m getting regular daily updates.

I’m getting updates where the num- bers are going. ” This was just in a scrum a day ago. There’s no reason why this information [audio interrup- ted] especially in light of the massive sacrifices that people across the province have made to fight the pandemic. Brit- ish Columbians deserve to know exactly how much gov- ernment revenues have gone down and spending has gone up. We need to know where the money has been commit- ted and spent, the size of the deficit and the debt-to-reven- ue ratio. All of these things allow us to understand where we are as a province.

We hope that the Finance Minister will give us a clearer look at where we stand so that we have a better idea of how to move forward into a recovery. Now, all of this brings us to the piece of legislation before us today. This year, the Budget Measures Imple- mentation Act amends a number of statutes to allow the implementation of four more new and increased taxes announced in the budget. These taxes bring to this gov- ernment a total of 23 new and increased taxes since com- ing to power.

I think that probably deserves mentioning — when you slowly pull the thread and bring out a few taxes each time you bring a budget document out. But here we have one of the most egregious taxes, which I think most employers, and probably employees, feel the impact of because of the cost to their employment. It’s the employ- er health tax.

Added also was the Victoria gas tax; the Vancouver gas tax; the Airbnb tax; luxury vehicle tax on vehicles over $55,000; tobacco tax increased three times; the property transfer tax surcharge, another 2 percent on the 3 percent charge; the foreign buyer tax, now up 5 per- cent at 20 percent. I just wrote the Finance Minister on a particular con- stituent of mine, Mr. McCormick, who, in Westbank, just lost his house about two weeks ago because of the fact….

As somebody that arrived from outside of the country, invested in 2017 in a contract to be completed before the deadline to have it complete, April 30, and due to forest fires and other unforeseen circumstances was unable to complete, he now has had to pay $63,000 of tax on a home and couldn’t afford it. The additional school tax on homes over $3 million and $4 million. The speculation tax. What more could I say about a tax that was unforeseen. I know members in both the city of West Kelowna and Kelowna directly impacted by this question of whether this has been helpful in terms of creating more housing supply.

I go back to some of the incremental taxes that the gov- ernment has brought in that just nibble away at the afford- ability issue on homes. Photo radar. The carbon tax, which has gone up not only from being revenue-neutral…. We’ve had a $5-per-year increase in 2018, 2019, and this year it was suspended temporarily. But that $15 a tonne, plus the previous amount, is going into general revenue, along with the surplus that we were able to put together to make cer- tain that the government had the resources necessary to pay for all of its responsibilities. [2:15 p.m.] Parking sales tax. The development cost charges.

These are obviously in Vancouver or the Lower Mainland. Prop- erty tax for TransLink. Cannabis tax. Income tax up 2.1 percent on incomes over $150,000. Corporate tax has now been increased to 12 percent. The ICBC unlisted driver premium. ICBC learner premium. The B.C. Hydro crisis fund. Pre-trip ride-share fees. The vaping PST. And now the sugary drinks tax, Netflix tax and new income tax bracket. Well, Minister, all I can say is that this is like the emper- or, British Columbians, having a new set of clothes.

They’ve built a resilient, durable set of clothes, and here, after all of this, we’ve got the government pulling at the threads, to the point where British Columbians are com- pletely naked. The emperor has no clothes. I think that we as the official opposition have made no secret of our criticism of the government’s constant tax increases. The NDP , meanwhile, has continued to make it clear that the only source of revenue that they really care about is the pockets of hard-working taxpayers. That includes both businesses and people that have everyday day jobs. Tuesday, June 23, 2020 British Columbia Debates 11745

Bill 4 is a continuation of enabling this trend. Despite record taxation by this government, they were still strug- gling to balance their budget when this bill was originally introduced. So let’s get into those four new and increased taxes. Of course, we have some detailed questions on specific aspects, when we get to committee, but for now I’ll keep my comments to a high-level review. It’s important to note that even before COVID-19 pan- demic, without new taxes, Budget 2020 would have been in deficit.

That budget, as you can see from the budget document that was presented, shows revenues that have climbed from, in 2017, a forecast of around $48.5 billion to, this year, $60.585 billion, topping out in 2022-23 at $64 billion. That’s a whopping 30 percent increase in the pro- vincial taxation rates of revenue. Now, it’s great that we’ve got an economy that was grow- ing, and we need to get it back there. But I have to say that these tax increases…. There is a limit to what is pos- sible for people and business.

It’s important that what we try and do is to make these taxes work for everyday things, making life just about affordable for everybody in B.C. Let’s talk about a prime example of this — the Netflix tax on digital services. Sounds innocuous enough, but this is going to add PST to Netflix, Disney and Spotify. This tax is also going to bring in about $11 million to provincial coffers and will end up costing consumers roughly $15 per year for the streaming service.

But this is also going to be added to services like Zoom and many of the other ser- vices that we have become accustomed to — becoming a necessity for us to use during these challenging times. The boundaries of this tax are somewhat nebulous, so I look forward to hopefully getting greater clarity on what ser- vices this tax will apply to during the committee stage. Another new tax of note is the soda tax.

While we can support the idea behind the measures that encourage people to make healthier choices, we certainly have some questions about the implementation of this tax, which is set to bring in about $27 million in tax revenue in the com- ing year. In addition to the previously mentioned taxes, this bill also specifies heated tobacco as a separate class so that it will be included in the tax on vaping devices and substances that was introduced on January 1 of 2020.

As we move forward to the committee stage on this bill, we will be asking some key questions about how these various taxes will be implemented and the effects that they will have on British Columbians. But we do already know that the NDP government has raised taxation, the equi- valent, right now to $3,000 per household. Total taxation increases will amount to almost $4,700 per household by 2022. What’s it going to be after we address the issues caused by this pandemic? [2:20 p.m.] I think what we have to remember is that we have to make certain we live within our means.

The fact is that we just can’t afford to have everything and continue to tax at a relentless rate. That’s going to make life completely unaf- fordable in British Columbia and turn people off from cre- ating businesses or wanting to live here. These are huge increases in the expenses of B.C. families and are certainly not making life more affordable. We have gotten all too used to discussing tax increases with this minister, and I look forward to getting into these measures in more detail during the committee stage of this bill.

Now, these tax increases look quite different in light of the past few months, where we have seen the pandemic hit our economy hard, leading to hundreds of thousands of job losses, many business closures and, in response, a dramatic increase in government spending. We under- stand that much of the original budget for Budget ’20-21 has now completely changed and the assumptions that were made in February are not necessarily accurate or relevant now in June. But while our world has changed and our economy has changed, the NDP haven’t.

They didn’t have a plan to grow the economy at the start of the year, and they still don’t today. They’re still worrying about canvassing people about the economic recovery with a survey. I just find that that’s incredible in light of all the people that we have in British Columbia, the economists that were mentioned by the previous speaker — in terms of the Economic Forecast Council — and what ideas can be brought to bear to help with this. I know that it’s important to survey British Columbians, but the time for action is now.

This is worrying at this time when we need a clear plan to grow the economy and gen- erate jobs more than ever. When we expected and hoped that they would finally lay out a clear economic plan for B.C., they instead unveiled a public survey, stalling it for another six weeks. These next few months are going to be absolutely critical to our province’s economic recovery. With unemployment rates already nearing 14 percent and widespread concern about the second wave of infection this fall, there are ser- ious concerns that this government is not poised to set us on a path for growth that we so desperately need.

Increased taxes will not help us beat COVID-19 or bring economic prosperity back to our province. The only way to get there is through true government transparency and letting us know where we stand, through careful, comprehensive planning to inspire job growth and economic creation. I sincerely hope that for the good of British Columbia, this government steps up and takes these much-needed steps. S. Bond:Good afternoon to my colleagues in the Legis- lature. I am very pleased to be able to provide some remarks to a bill that I’m sure pretty much everyone in the House would agree is a very technical bill.

In fact, it’s pages long, and what it does, in essence, is it brings to life, it breeds life into a budget, a budget that every govern- ment tables. This is the technical bill that brings to life the 11746 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, June 23, 2020

budget decisions and policy choices that a government has made. I don’t know about my colleagues, but I know that from my own personal perspective, I have to admit it’s actually hard to remember the tabling of the budget, for a number of reasons but mostly because of the unprecedented cir- cumstances that we are facing as a province, as a country, and, in fact, the entire world. Y ou know, one of the things that makes me incredibly proud is the fact that….

I don’t think there would be any disagreement in the Legislature today about some things, and one of those would certainly be the incredible resi- liency and strength and determination that has been demonstrated by the people of British Columbia during these most difficult circumstances.

When I stop to think about it, just months ago the phrase “flattening the curve” would have meant very little to most of us. [2:25 p.m.] I think that today we recognize that it was a rallying cry that was presented to us, as we worked together to pro- tect our communities, our neighbours, our families and our friends from the effects of COVID-19. I think that as we watch the briefings every day and we see British Col- umbia’s outcomes, compared to those of the rest of Canada and the world, in fact, we’re doing pretty well. It took hard work, and it took a focus.

I have been personally very grateful to see the leader- ship provided and that sense of collaboration during what is a public health care crisis. I think all of us have recog- nized that the time to express our differences is not likely related to a health care crisis. I’m proud of the fact that people stood shoulder to shoulder, taking the advice of Dr. Henry and under the leadership of the Minister of Health and others, and paid attention to what was going on from a health care perspective. I think that matters. I certainly recognize — all of us in the session today and throughout the next number of weeks….

We all recog- nize that we need to remain diligent. We need to pay atten- tion to the ongoing health crisis. In fact, just yesterday — I don’t know what today’s numbers are — there was, tra- gically, another death in our province and 32 test-positive cases over the last 72 hours from yesterday. But I think it’s also important that we recognize that we have to be as equally determined to deal with the dev- astating impacts that the response to COVID-19 has had on our economy. Y es, it is a health care crisis.

But I can assure you that what we’re facing in the days ahead will impact health care outcomes as well, and that is an eco- nomic crisis. Let’s just take a moment and think about what we know from an economic perspective. Part of the discussion…. I want to say thank you to my colleagues for their particip- ation in the debate today and also for their very thought- ful and eloquent presentations. I felt like I could almost say ditto to the work that they have done and that they pres- ented in the House. We had a former Finance Minister, one who did an exceptional job for British Columbia.

Y es, members of the opposite side — the government bench — can agree to dis- agree with that. But when you look at the position that the government inherited when our government became opposition, it was the envy of most of the provinces and territories in our country. So to hear from a former Fin- ance Minister — to hear from my co-Finance critic and others of my colleagues — about why we are having a dis- cussion about Bill 4 and why we disagree with the debate at this time is important.

Let me go through a few of the things that we know about the different place that British Columbia finds itself in than when the Finance Minister tabled her budget in what seems a lifetime ago. We do know some things, but we don’t know them because the government has laid out those facts for us. I have a great deal of regard for the government’s Finance Minister, and she and I have served in the House together for a very long time. I deeply respect that.

It’s also important, and has been noted by my col- leagues, that the opposition gave the Finance Minister the opportunity to move ahead with a financial aid package, with initiatives that would be funded by $5 billion. It was granted. It was given in that very unique session that my colleague from Abbotsford mentioned.

It was given without reservation, but it was given with an assumption that there would be complete disclosure of how that money would be spent, how it would be utilized and — not only that — about the efficiency and effectiveness of the programs that have been announced that are attached to those funding dollars. [2:30 p.m.] Just as we’ve seen in the last two days, we have a dis- agreement with the way the government is dealing with a particular file to deal with temporary layoffs. Those are reasonable and important discussion points.

To have them dismissed or criticized by members of the government bench as we just don’t get it — it has absolutely nothing to do with that. Our job as the opposition is to raise issues that certainly have emerged during the last number of months, and there are a lot of them that have been raised since the budget was tabled. Here’s what we know as of today. And we don’t know that because the government has laid out, in a transparent and thoughtful way for us, these details.

We’ve had to glean them from reports that are being made by econom- ists, organizations and others have a significant interest in making sure that British Columbia prospers once again, from an economic perspective. [S. Gibson in the chair.] Y es, the priority has been health care issues — we’ve worked alongside; we agree with that — but what we’re saying is that today we need to, in conjunction with Tuesday, June 23, 2020 British Columbia Debates 11747

remaining vigilant and paying attention to those direc- tions on the health care side, we now need to turn addi- tional attention to the economy. Let’s look at what a recent report from the B.C. Business Council told us. The B.C. Business Council noted in their report that our economy is going to shrink by 7.8 percent in 2020. What’s interesting about that was that the business council had made a projection earlier in March and already they’ve revised that. I think the earlier number was 7.3 percent, in terms of the drop of economic growth, and it’s now projecting 7.8 percent.

While I’m sure we will hear enthusiastically from the Finance Minister and members of the government side: “Y es, but the provincial economy is expected to expand in 2021. ” Certainly the B.C. Business council would concur with that assumption. But the expansion will be approx- imately 4.8 percent. If you stop and think about the signi- ficant downturn that we’ve experienced in British Colum- bia, it means that B.C. will be regaining just over half of the economic output that we lost in 2020. That has significant impacts, not just in the short term but over the longer term.

Those are the kinds of issues that we think we should have the ability to debate in a well- informed, thoughtful way in the Legislature. In order to do that, we need the Finance Minister to provide us with the information and provide British Columbians with the information and the briefing data that she is receiving. Here’s a staggering number, if you stop and think about this: the unemployment rate in British Columbia nearly tripled in three months, and the number of people work- ing dropped by about 350,000 people in our province. If that doesn’t give us reason for concern, it should.

In the debate earlier today in question period, the point we wanted to make is that we want employers to have the ability to keep permanent jobs for British Columbians. That means that we need to act swiftly and pay attention to the kinds of issues that are significant and that are being brought forward by the very people who employ British Columbians. So 350,000 jobs have been impacted. The number of people working — individuals, family members — 350,000 people…. I think one of the quotes in the report from the B.C. Business Council that I was most impacted by was a state- ment. I want to quote it.

This is what the report said: “For both Canada and British Columbia, the 2020 downturn is shaping up to be the deepest in 100 years. ” I know that in the Legislature, the government likes to measure time in terms of how long we were government and how long we haven’t been government. But let’s be clear: we weren’t there over the last 100 years, and this is the deepest down- turn — at least, that’s the expectation — in more than 100 years. That is an absolutely impactful statement. I think that all of us need to be paying attention to that. What else do we know, and where are we as a result?

Again, it’s not because we’ve been provided with specific briefing documents and had inside briefings. We work to try to get information so that we can look at where exactly British Columbia is today. Let’s talk about the labour force data. As I have just mentioned, 350,000 people in B.C. are out of work.

Think about what that means on a day-to-day basis for our neighbours, for some of our family members. [2:35 p.m.] I can tell you, as a member of the opposition, that one thing we would agree with the Premier on is the fact that we should be doing everything imaginable to try to ensure that those people have the opportunity to go back to work in permanent positions. That’s the kind of debate that we raised in question period and will contin- ue to raise in the days ahead. The general unemployment rate currently stands at 13 percent. Thirteen percent — again, nearly tripling over that three-month period.

And here’s a number that should cause all of us to want to think very carefully about where we’re at and how we’re going to reboot the economy and who are the people that have been most significantly impacted. The unemployment rate is up 30 percent for youth in our province. The very future of our province — 30 percent unemployment rate. Let’s look at what the CFIB had to say. What did their business survey results show? This is as recent as June 22. In British Columbia today, only 50 percent of businesses are fully open.

Eighteen percent of businesses are at above normal revenues — you think about that for a moment — and 29 percent of businesses are at or above normal staff- ing numbers. Small businesses in British Columbia…. Again, that’s not the fault of the government. The former Finance Minister who spoke previous to me said that, and we’ve been clear about that. It’s not about whether or not it’s the government’s fault; it’s that we need to know the state of play in British Columbia. And British Columbians deserve to know that.

Those are incredibly challenging numbers: 18 percent of businesses — only 18 percent — are at or above normal revenues; 29 percent of businesses are at or above normal staffing. People are not working. They can’t provide for their families. They are not able to have those jobs that they had pre-COVID. Here’s another statistic. So 33 percent of businesses will not be able to pay full July rent without additional sup- ports. Certainly, my colleagues and I on the opposition side called for a long time…. We’ve sent a series of policy letters with suggestions to the government.

One of them was about commercial rents and how absolutely critical it was that if we want to see small businesses continue to grow and thrive and survive in British Columbia, we needed to pay attention to commercial rents. What are we seeing now? That almost a third of businesses, small busi- nesses, in British Columbia will not be able to pay their full July rent without additional supports. Here’s another interesting fact. Y ou know, when we start thinking about layering on costs…. In fact, what Bill 4 11748 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, June 23, 2020

talks about is actually the layering on of additional taxes. I think we’re very concerned about those things. But 58 per- cent of businesses are finding it difficult to absorb or deal with the costs of PPE. Now, all of us, as MLAs and elected officials, have been required to look at our office space and how we serve British Columbians, and there have been additional costs. Well, businesses are finding it difficult to absorb those costs as well. Let’s look at what the B.C. Business Council had to say. The B.C.

Business Council estimates that at least 10 per- cent and perhaps as many as 15 percent of the 200,000 businesses with paid employees could be gone by late 2021. Now, if that doesn’t cause us to want to…. And what’s driv- ing our questions and our thinking and our requests to government about this kind of information…. It should drive all of us to think of every single opportunity to find reasonable and responsible supports for small businesses across the province.

As we pointed out in question period for the last couple of days, the government received what could only be described as a scathing letter saying: “We need some help here. ” So it’s not unreasonable to bring those concerns both directly to the Premier and to the Legislature. That’s our job. [2:40 p.m.] BCBC also expects, as I noted, the provincial economy to shrink by 7.8 percent, growing in 2021 but only boun- cing back by about half of what our economic growth was pre-COVID. B.C. hydro consumption.

I’m sure there are people who will be smiling and thinking that it’s a good thing that elec- tricity demand has seen its steepest drop since the 2008 recession. Demand is down 10 percent, and we expect that to continue, potentially reaching a drop of 12 percent by April of 2021. If you stop and think for a moment about why it’s that steep of a drop, it’s because the decline is linked to declines in commercial and light industrial activ- ity — the very kinds of sectors we need to grow the eco- nomy and to provide jobs for British Columbians. Let’s look at what Central 1 Credit Union had to say.

B.C. posted a record retail sales drop in April. Sales fell 20.7 percent from March. At $5.62 billion, sales were the lowest since June of 2014, and we know that retail sales and consumer confidence have a significant role to play in the economic success of British Columbia. It’s suggested that economic growth will not return to pre-COVID trends until mid-2021. Unemployment could rise significantly — and continue to. We’ve certainly heard about the impacts. I’m sure every MLA in the House has heard about the tourism and service sector impacts.

The view, very likely accurate, is that that will continue, poten- tially, for the next two years — very dire circumstances for sectors and for the economic health of our province. The Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp. has national data. About 12 percent of homeowners have deferred mortgage payments, with the potential for that number to rise to 20 percent. Gross consumer debt is projected to rise to 130 percent of GDP in the fall of 2020, and there is a growing mortgage deferral cliff that looms in the fall, when some unemployed people will need to start paying their mortgages again.

It’s something that I’ve heard a great deal of concern about, and I’ve heard it from my colleagues as well. Defer- ral is certainly a tool that can be used, but the key

part comes when people actually have to start paying it back again. I’m very deeply concerned for people who have taken advantage of those deferral tools and suddenly find themselves in the position of having to pay it back, and for how they’re going to manage those things. Restaurants Canada. Well, I think all of us can imagine what those numbers look like. When you think about B.C. establishments, their revenue is expected to have declined by $2.9 billion over a three-month period. That is a drop of approximately 80 percent of their revenue.

Four out of five restaurants have laid off workers since March 1 — again, a loss of jobs, a loss of revenue, a significant impact on our economy. Here’s another staggering change since the budget was introduced. Nearly 10 percent of restaurants have closed permanently, with another 18 percent pre- pared to close permanently if conditions continue. These are devastating circumstances for families, for businesses and for government. Certainly, I can only ima- gine the challenges that the Finance Minister is facing.

But just as we’ve faced a health care crisis, we need to be deal- ing with what is an economic crisis. I have every confid- ence that British Columbians, given proper information, given opportunities, given all of the kinds of tools that they require…. Just as we’ve seen that resiliency on the health care side, we have that potential in British Columbia. I’m confident of that, but we need to look to the future. Let’s talk specifically about some of the pieces of Bill 4 now. I can tell you that as I reviewed my notes — I made them, I have to say, many months ago — there was one glaringly obvious conclusion.

I’ve always been taught that it goes better with saying than without. The budget that was tabled in February has virtually no relevance to the economic realities that our province is facing today, yet the Legislature was recalled with the assumption that the debate will centre on what is now an irrelevant budget. [2:45 p.m.] Bill 4 introduces new taxes. Y ou’ve heard my colleagues speak of them, but it’s worth repeating. This bill brings to life four new taxes, but it brings the total number of new or increased taxes and fees under the NDP government to 23.

As we pointed out each and every time that we talked about the budget, the budget would have been in deficit, pre-COVID, without these four new taxes. If you then stop to consider the long list of economic details that I and my colleagues have referenced in the House today, it is absolutely essential that the Finance Minister take the opportunity to provide as much inform- ation as she possibly can to the members of this House so Tuesday, June 23, 2020 British Columbia Debates 11749

that we can have a well-informed debate, as we’ve all men- tioned. We need to do that as soon as we possibly can. How quickly we have forgotten the Netflix tax. It’s a tax on digital services where PST will be added to streaming channels like Disney and Spotify. That tax would bring in $11 million in 2020. The government received approval to spend 5 billion additional dollars. One of these taxes alone — we’re talking about $11 million.

Of the increased tax for people earning above $220,000, that would generate $216 million of revenue in 2020-2021, nowhere near the $5 bil- lion that this government is either spending or has spent. Of course, we have the sugary drinks tax and the vaping tax. I don’t know about the members in the House today, but somehow when we talk about the budget and we think about these measures, they pale by comparison to the eco- nomic realities that we are facing in British Columbia today.

When it was tabled in February, we raised the alarm bells about the tax-and-spend approach of the govern- ment, but so much has happened since then. While all of us agree that the government needed to take action to support British Columbians…. Hopefully, we’re not going to start reading tweets that say we don’t care about British Columbians and we didn’t think there needed to be action. Of course we did. We agreed unequi- vocally with the ability for the government to move ahead.

What we’re saying today is that British Columbians deserve and should expect transparency about the decisions that the government made in response to the pandemic. It’s not that we didn’t think government needed to act; of course it did. In fact, we provided additional sug- gestions. Our leader has sent a number of policy sugges- tions to the Premier and his team. I’m hoping they’ll still be considered. We, too, want to be part of how you think about the solutions for British Columbia. What we’re ask- ing for today is the opportunity for transparent disclosure of how the $5 billion has been spent, will be spent.

Has it been done efficiently, and is it working? Bill 4, as noted, also introduces a host of other amend- ments, which of course will be part of committee stage. I can assure the minister that we will have lots of questions that will, hopefully, provide some more clarity about other sections. I think it’s fair to say that it is entirely reasonable to ask the Finance Minister to provide an update earlier than the one she promised for September, after the Legis- lature has ended its session. These are extraordinary times, and that calls for as much transparency as possible.

As we’ve heard from a pre- vious Finance Minister and others, we know that the Min- ister of Finance is receiving regular, if not daily, updates and that it shouldn’t be difficult to provide the public and this Legislature with the specific details about the current economic status of our province. [2:50 p.m.] I have been so proud, and I know everyone in the House has been, of the efforts and sacrifices made by British Col- umbians as, together, we fight the pandemic. But now they deserve to know some very key information.

My colleague from Abbotsford raised this in such a very thoughtful and well-laid-out argument. We need to understand both sides of the balance sheet. It is not just about spending; it is about revenue generation. Exactly how have government revenues been impacted? Those are some of the key pieces of information that the Finance Minister will, hopefully, outline for the members of this House and for the people of British Columbia. The government has committed $5 billion of taxpayer money. It’s not our money. It’s not the government’s money. It belongs to taxpayers in British Columbia.

That money is to provide programs and initiatives related to support as a result of COVID-19. But it is time for detailed information about what has been spent and what is yet to be spent to be provided not just to the public but to the House so we can have that debate. Recently the official opposition did formally request, did ask, for a fiscal update to be provided that reflects the most current financial information that the government now has. That should be done now, not in September when the House has risen.

So we were relieved to hear that the Finance Minister has now said that she will provide, that she is prepared to do, a fiscal update on July 14. While that’s a step in the right direction, the question remains as to what will be included in that update. We certainly recognize that we’re three months into the fiscal year, but that doesn’t mitigate the need for British Col- umbians and members in this House to be given as much information as possible so that we can establish a baseline. We need to be able to….

And the government needs to be able to demonstrate to us that they can explain exactly how that $5 billion is being spent. What else? The other thing that matters is: what is the success of the programs that have been announced? As we reviewed Bill 4 months ago, we knew that the measures contained within it would create an additional tax burden for families in our province. So here’s a ques- tion for the Finance Minister: has she reconsidered her plan to add new taxes as families struggle as a result of COVID-19? So 350,000 people are out of work in our province. The world has changed dramatically.

But it’s apparent to us that the NDP have not. We have continuously held the government to account for the fact that they have no jobs plan, no plan to grow the economy. They didn’t when they tabled the now irrelevant budget, and they don’t today. We learned just last week that the government doesn’t have a plan for economic recovery. Instead, they’re going to do a survey. British Columbians can’t afford to wait for this govern- ment to survey or monitor.

They need to know exactly where we stand financially and what exactly the govern- ment is going to do to get our economy moving in the right direction as soon as possible. Deputy Speaker:I believe this concludes the discussion 11750 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, June 23, 2020

of second reading of Bill 4, Budget Measures Implementa- tion Act. I invite the Minister of Finance to close debate. Hon. C. James: Thank you to the speakers who have spoken on the bill. So much to respond to. I’m not going to take time to respond to every piece, but I do want to touch on some of the common themes that I heard through the discussion because I think it’s important to put the facts on the table. I think it is important to make sure that accurate information is out there.

I also believe it’s important that the public has an opportunity to have their say, and I’ll talk a little bit about that as well. I want to start off with a plan for recovery for the eco- nomy in British Columbia. I think the most important statement…. The Premier has said this. I have said this. Certainly, Dr. Bonnie Henry and Minister Dix have said this.

Our very best economic recovery plan is to make sure that we’re following the health orders, because one of the key areas to deal with economic recovery is consumer con- fidence and the public’s confidence. [2:55 p.m.] People can open all the businesses in the world, and if the public doesn’t feel confident in going back into those businesses because they don’t feel that safety guidelines are being followed, then we won’t see economic recovery. Business is in partnership with us around talking about this issue about building confidence, making sure we fol- low the orders.

That’s why you see in our restart plan a very measured, careful approach to build that confidence in British Columbia, and that’s critical. Let’s talk a little bit about the supports that are out there: $1.8 billion support for people and businesses, direct sup- port to make sure that people have the support that they need; $1.7 billion, supports for critical services to make sure, again, that we have those quality services that people rely on; and then, yes — $1.5 billion put aside for econom- ic recovery. I think the Premier has said it best.

We will never, on this side, apologize for listening to the public and giving them voice. In fact, I think that’s been obvious why there is a difference between the two sides during this discussion and debate at second reading. We do believe in respecting the public’s voice, respecting the voices of business, respecting the voices of not-for-profit, respecting the voices of labour and respecting the voices of Indigenous leaders in this province. We will continue to do that.

We’re coming out of COVID because we pulled togeth- er, because people work together, and we have that same opportunity with economic recovery. So the work contin- ues. The benefits and supports continue on. But yes, there will be additional dollars that will be based on the values that matter to British Columbians — values like protecting our environment, doing our part on climate action, recon- ciliation with Indigenous people, equality and equity and making sure we address those pieces.

Those matter to us as a government, they matter to the people of British Col- umbia, and they will be part of the economic recovery that we’re looking at. There was a lot of discussion about information, what information is out there. Again, I have said this often, and I’ll say it again to the members.

Two and a half months into the fiscal year we will be bringing forward — some chose to ignore it, but some members have mentioned it — an economic update on July 14 that will include the vari- ety of indicators that are used always to look at the eco- nomy, everything from retail sales to exports, imports, nat- ural resource dollars coming in, corporate taxes, personal taxes, employment numbers and housing. Many of those, as the members will know well, are always a month and sometimes, in fact, two months behind.

So it’s important to make sure we have a couple of months into the fiscal year to bring forward a variety of scenarios or to bring forward the scenario in place, subject to change, recognizing that we’re just in the restart process. That information will come forward, as I said, on July 14. A number of members spoke about the $5 billion and being accountable for the $5 billion. I appreciate the fact that the Legislature came together across party lines to be able to put those dollars in place so that we could sup- port the public and businesses in British Columbia.

As I said that day when those dollars passed, we are account- able for every dollar of that $5 billion. The members know that. They know they have an opportunity here, in estim- ates, during this session to debate those dollars. Each of the ministers who have individual programs will be responsible. I will be responsible for talking about the dollars and how they were divided into ministries. So the public does have their accountability and their oppor- tunity for accountability through this session. That’s part of the reason that we’re here — to make sure that we’re held accountable.

Those dollars, as I said, are continuing to flow when it comes to support. There were a number of people who talked about sur- pluses and how important surpluses were. The former Fin- ance Minister from the past government talked about the fact that surpluses for surpluses’ sake were a good thing. Well, in fact, we saw and British Columbians, for 16 years, lived through what happened when we had a government that thought surpluses for surpluses’ sake were important. The highest child poverty rate in the country right here in British Columbia. Doubling of tuition fees, doubling of MSP premiums.

The challenges of people with diverse abilities who had a bus pass taken away. We saw huge spec- ulation in the real estate market. We saw money launder- ing occurring in this province. [3:00 p.m.] That’s what happened when a government thought sur- pluses for surpluses’ sake were important. The people of this province struggled, and that’s why we’ve put key investments into our budgets over the last three years to be able to address that. I heard one of the members say that the budget that was Tuesday, June 23, 2020 British Columbia Debates 11751

tabled in February didn’t matter. Well, in fact, that budget will be what each of the members in this Legislature is accountable for as ministers. The spending continues in important values that we put forward, that we believe are British Columbians’ values. That, again, is making sure we’re investing in things like climate action, CleanBC, child care and the critical nature of child care as an eco- nomic tool. The member has talked about doing nothing for the economy. In fact, child care and housing are two critical pieces that are necessary for a healthy economy.

Those are investments that are in this budget that we’re talking about in the Legislature. The B.C. child opportunity benefit coming in the fall. The opportunity for a B.C. access grant for post-secondary students. Again, those will be critical and will help us as we look at economic recovery. They will be critical to getting people back into the workforce, getting people the kind of training that they need. Over $20 billion in capital spending. Again, an invest- ment we made before COVID that will help us and make sure we’re on a strong economic footing.

It has been pointed out by international rating agencies and others that B.C. is very well positioned because of the invest- ments that we put in there, because of the fiscal respons- ibility that was in place. Taxes. I just want to mention for a moment…. A num- ber of members mentioned the e-taxes that are in this bill. I think the members need to go back and take a look at the legislation that they brought in, in the past govern- ment. In fact, e-taxes were already in place. They just wer- en’t enforced. The government already put the PST in place to be able to be collected.

That was already part of their past legislation. They just hadn’t enforced it. So I think, again, a little bit of listening might be helpful as we’re going through this process. I look forward to the discussion in committee stage. I look forward to, as I said, the accountability that will be there, through estimates, for the $5 billion. I look for- ward to bringing….

Perhaps looking forward isn’t the right word, when we look at the challenges we’re going to face in the economic statement coming forward in July, but mak- ing sure that that information is there, because it is going to take all of us pulling together to be able to address the economic challenges that we face ahead. With that, I move second reading of Bill 4, the Budget Measures Implementation Act, 2020. Deputy Speaker:I am hearing “division” now. We’ll defer, under sessional order, consideration of that division to later on this afternoon here today. Hon. M.

Farnworth:I call second reading of Bill 6, Mines Amendment Act. Deputy Speaker:I call now on the member for Koo- tenay East to speak to this Bill 6, Mines Act. My apologies. I thought the House Leader was kicking this off. Please invite the minister to speak to this. BILL 6 — MINES AMENDMENT ACT, 2020 Hon. B. Ralston:I’m pleased to be able to introduce second reading and speak to it. I know my colleague will follow me, and I’m looking forward to his comments. Thank you very much.

The Mines Amendment Act, Bill 6, contains amend- ments that will build on the government’s ongoing efforts to strengthen mining regulation in British Columbia. These amendments will accomplish three things. [3:05 p.m.] First, they will establish a chief permitting officer, a pos- ition distinct from the chief inspector of mines, which will ensure the mine permitting process is efficient and effect- ive. Responsibility for health, safety and its enforcement will continue to rest with the chief inspector of mines. Those two functions will be divided, and that’s the purpose for creating that new position.

This separation of roles and functions in the ministry allows for a more dedicated focus on permitting and competitiveness without compromising worker health and safety and the ability to hold the industry account- able. The separation of the permitting process from the enforcement side of the ministry also aligns the ministry with other regulators in British Columbia and best prac- tice across Canada. Secondly, building on recent improvements and results delivered by the ministry, these changes will further strengthen the government’s ability to hold mines accountable.

These amendments will clarify offence provi- sions and increase the limitation period from three years to five years in both the Mines Act and the Environmental Management Act. These changes will ensure the government has enough time to undertake complex investigations if they are war- ranted. The amendments will also strengthen the min- istry’s authority to conduct an investigation, respond to environmental issues and ensure that mining companies meet both their environmental and regulatory obligations. Thirdly, these amendments will formalize the creation of the ministry’s Mine Audits and Effectiveness Unit.

That unit will ensure that mining regulation in British Colum- bia remains effective and aligned with global best prac- tice. These amendments will bring into law the position of chief auditor, who will lead the audit unit independently of the ministry’s other regulatory functions. The chief auditor will report publicly on each audit and make recommenda- tions for improvements. Those are the comments I have on the bill. I move second reading. 11752 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, June 23, 2020

Deputy Speaker:Now we’re going to enter into debate. I invite the member for Kootenay East to speak to this. T. Shypitka:It’s great to be here virtually from the heart of the Kootenays and the southeast corner of the province. Before I get into Bill 6, the Mines Amendment Act, 2020, and because this is my first time speaking since returning to the Legislature, I’ d like to recognize the sac- rifices we’ve all made during this unprecedented pan- demic. I first want to offer my sympathies to those families and friends who have lost loved ones. I also want to congratu- late all British Columbians for doing their

part in flatten- ing the curve and adhering to our provincial health orders. We’ve all been very successful. Finally, a recognition to all those businesses that are having a very difficult time right now and trying to hang on. Where I live, our tourism industry is hit especially hard. I want to give a big shout-out to our fishing guides, guide-outfitters, hoteliers, restaurateurs, coffee shops, pubs, gift shops, houseboat operators — the list goes on — and anyone else in the tourism towns of Fernie, Spar- wood, Elkford and the entire south country. My heart is with you.

We need to be kind to any visitors right now and be respectful of their own unique situations. Another industry that is suffering, as well, is junior exploration companies, placer miners and operating mines. As the minister knows, mining is one of the most important and storied industries we have here in B.C.

For close to 150 years, mining has been the cornerstone of our economy, employing thousands and giving us billions in revenue in order to be spent on the things we need, such as education, infrastructure and health care. [3:10 p.m.] B.C. is very fortunate to have a bounty of natural resources that many countries and jurisdictions could only dream of. Our metals and minerals cover every corner of the province and give great opportunity to the small placer miner all the way through to the large multinational com- pany competing on a world stage. These metals and minerals are key in transitioning to a newer economy.

Our metallurgical coal mines produce some of the world’s highest-grade steel for surgical tools, electric vehicles and wind turbines. Copper, gold, moly, silver and many other metals make up solar panels, electric wiring for computers and other uses in artificial intelli- gence and high technology. As a matter of fact, it is the high-tech sector that benefits from industries such as min- ing. Software and artificial intelligence are developed for uses in making mines more effective with less impact on our environment.

In order to benefit from this gift of nature, we as a province must face fierce competition across the globe. One thing that has set B.C. apart from almost all other jurisdictions is in the way we conduct business. B.C. has been identified internationally as a safe and reputable jur- isdiction. We have high standards, a human rights record, top environmental standards and a major focus on worker safety, with great relationships with our unionized and non-unionized employers.

If some people knew of the atrocities of hard child labour and environmental damage that some jurisdictions put on their landscape, they would hold their hands up high to what we accomplish already here in British Col- umbia. Y ou can do your mining in the Congo or the South Sudan and watch how workers without ventilation — many of them children — navigate their way down a rabbit hole mine shaft with little to no engineering. Or you can place yourself in B.C., with the best standards anywhere. We need to be competitive, or we lose to those jurisdic- tions that have horrifying practices.

In the three years that I have been critic for Energy and Mines, I’ve learned a lot about this valuable industry, and I have been honoured to meet the folks that make this industry as valuable as it is. A miner is a unique person. Y ou can spot them a mile away, for all of the right reasons. They are weather-worn, hands of leather, hard-working risk-takers with a twinkle in their eye on the prospects of a good prospect. The big find, the hidden treasure — that’s what they’re looking for. But above all, they are tenacious. In fact, it is their tenacity that really sets them apart from any other.

At any given time, this industry faces many barriers to business — global demand, commodity prices, interest rates, currency fluctuations, access issues, intense public scrutiny, protest demonstrations, social media attacks, geographical and geological challenges and many other things that are really out of their control. What is in our control is to help us to compete globally as our fiscal policy here in B.C.

The carbon tax, employer health tax, fuel tax — the list is endless — are hindering our competitiveness, accord- ing to the Ernst and Y oung report that was delivered to the Mining Jobs Task Force over a year ago. As a matter of fact, the number one hindrance to our competitiveness globally was our tax structure here in B.C. and, more directly, the ever-increasing carbon tax. That said, what is perhaps the biggest obstacle for our mining industry are red tape and bureaucracy that bog things down. All that industry wants are clarity and cer- tainty in order to be competitive.

The amendment to the Mines Act that is in front of us now could severely chal- lenge that. The minister led off his first reading statement yesterday highlighting the terrible accident at Mount Polley. I am very well aware of the terrible accident that occurred from the tailings breach in 2014. We are constantly reminded with the same pictures over and over, and we never want to see another incident like this ever to happen again. I’m happy to report, however, that the reclamation efforts done thus far have been very successful. Tuesday, June 23, 2020 British Columbia Debates 11753

Polley and Quesnel lakes, along with Hazelton Creek, have been restored to see aquatic and riparian areas being productive once again. Frogs, fish, wildlife and vegetation are bouncing back in great numbers. I would like to thank the teams of biologists and the workers that have made this possible. It’s truly amazing. Over $100 million has been spent, spent wisely, and it definitely shows.

The minister alludes to or has us believe that this legis- lation will prevent other accidents like Mount Polley in the future or that Mount Polley would have been avoided alto- gether if legislation like this was in place when the former government was in office. [3:15 p.m.] This is something I would like the minister to explain to us, and perhaps he will get his chance in committee stage. If this is in fact the case, I will be totally in support of this bill, because we need to prevent the preventable. However, I suspect that will not be what we hear.

As a matter of fact, it was an expert panel that deter- mined that the dam failure happened because when the dam was designed and originally built, there were insuffi- cient test holes drilled to find the unstable clay that even- tually, in 2014, caused the dam to fail. Who was the regu- lator in charge of this mine and its design? What govern- ment signed off on the design of the Mount Polley tailings dam? It is the same government that is putting forward this legislation in front of us today. After the Mount Polley incident, the Auditor General came out with a report.

I believe there were 16 recom- mendations to which the former government responded — all except one, and that was to remove the compliance and enforcement out of the ministry. Our current gov- ernment has not acted on that recommendation, as well, for good reason. That is because there is no jurisdiction in the world that I know of that removes compliance and enforcement out of the ministry that permits those same projects. So in actuality, this government has done nothing to further advance the Auditor General’s recommenda- tions laid out in 2016. Remember, Mr.

Speaker, this is the government that brought us the über-regulator of engineering. I hope that the minister has considered the day when (1) the NDP’s chief mine inspector; (2) the NDP’s mine permitting officer; (3) the NDP’s chief mine auditor; and (4) the rep- resentative of the office of the superintendent of profes- sional governance, who is responsible for the competence of our engineers and geoscientists, otherwise called…. The engineers call them the über-regulator.

All four of them show up at a minesite simultaneously and declare that they are from the government and want to ensure that a planned tailings dam does not collapse 30 years from now. Is this going to stop an NDP government from issuing a permit for a flawed tailings pond project design, as the NDP government actually did at Mount Polley some 30 years ago? I doubt it.

But perhaps the minister would launch a forensic audit of how the NDP government of the day allowed that flawed design at Mount Polley to proceed and maybe bring criminal negligence charges against the guilty NDP government official or NDP minister involved so that justice can be finally achieved. What does this amendment attempt to do? First, it establishes an audit unit and chief auditor for mining. The chief auditor’s authority extends to the regulatory frame- work for mining in British Columbia and the policies, pro- grams, practices and actions to fulfil the objectives of that framework.

Also, the audit unit is independent from per- mitting, compliance and enforcement divisions. The chief auditor may issue orders for immediate remedial action, work stoppages, mine closures. It formalizes the creation of the mine audits and effectiveness unit led by the chief auditor. It creates and separates the role of chief permitting officer from the chief inspector of mines. Transitional provisions are established to amend the mining code to assign chief inspector powers to the chief permitting officer.

It adds new enforcement powers for the chief inspector and his or her delegates and broadens the scope of orders to have mine owners produce independent engineering reports regarding incidents — we will discov- er what that means in committee stage, I’m sure — at their own expense. It expands the compliance provisions under

section 24 of the act, and it adds a couple offences. It all sounds very complicating and rigorous, and it is. This amendment shores up the separation of compliance, safety and enforcement from the permitting and authorizations with- in the ministry, and I could go along with that. However, what is glaringly missing is what this legislation will do for permitting and enabling mining to move quicker with more clarity and certainty. What I’m afraid of what this amendment will do is fat- ten up the layers of bureaucracy and challenge certainty and clarity.

For all that this amendment does. it’s what it doesn’t do that’s more revealing. There appears to be no economic or competitiveness component in the audit unit’s mandate. [3:20 p.m.] It is amazing that the government will claim this is somehow going to have a positive impact on permitting. It has absolutely nothing to do with permitting except it creates a new title, chief of permitting. We already have a chief of permitting. The position is known as chief inspect- or, and this setup has worked for over 100 years. B.C. is being held up as a stellar mining jurisdiction all over the world.

This is the creation of a brand-new layer of bureaucracy to add on top of the already complex bureau- cracy. It creates a permitting chief, along with an auditor chief, on top of the already existing chief inspector. Meanwhile, you have constituents trying to eke out a living in the mineral exploration business who are already heavily scrutinized when they apply for a simple permit to drill a hole in a dry rock. What do these hard-working folks get out of this new legislation? Hopefully not a lot of 11754 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, June 23, 2020

new bureaucracy and some new titles. The $20 million in resources that were allocated a couple of years ago to the ministry to assist with permitting and fast-tracking applic- ations has seemed to have dried up and been diverted to more bureaucracy, regulation and bigger government. It seems bizarre that more efforts are being put forward to enforcement and compliance when we haven’t seen a new mine coming to operation in the province since the government took over three years ago.

The folks I talk to in the industry can’t see any new resources, more people to work on permitting, nothing tangible to move permits faster so that people can work, invest and pay taxes. I have talked to several mine operators, and they tell me the investment dollars are leaving the province due to the uncertainty and length of time it takes to get anything done. Although we need regulation to hold us all accountable, it is the unnecessary regulation and legislation that needs to be trimmed and not fattened up, and I’m afraid that this amendment will do just that.

As we enter phase 3 of economic recovery, now is the time to be less bur- densome with bureaucracy and to leap ahead of our com- petitors with a smooth, seamless process that values our high environmental, health and safety standards. In short, we support increasing safety in B.C. mines. Absolutely. However, we are increasingly concerned that while the economy is in such dire straits, the NDP contin- ue to be focused on red tape, increased bureaucracy and regulation instead of helping industry thrive. For example, there are significant new powers contemplated through the creation of the chief auditor for mining.

The chief aud- itor may issue orders for remedial actions, work stoppages and mine closures. We’ll have questions about how these powers are used by an independent office in the commit- tee stage. The money spent on separating compliance and enforcement and two separate divisions is supposed to help to foster new mines and exploration. We have not seen this. Instead, we haven’t seen any improvements to permitting. In fact, we continue to hear complaints of delays and inadequacies at front counter. Permits that tra- ditionally took two to three months now take eight months or longer.

Some exploration companies are losing entire seasons. We need our mining industry to remain competitive if we are going to foster recovery and jobs and play a role in building clean energy technologies for now and into the future. We will be asking key questions at committee stage to ensure these changes are nimble and don’t add unneces- sary red tape for one of B.C. ’s vital industries. I think a key quote came from the president of the Min- ing Association of British Columbia. That was a quote from last February, during budget.

The quote was: “The mining industry is at a crossroads in B.C., and we are hop- ing to see a solution in this budget. ” I think those com- ments are especially true now, as we try to recover from the COVID-19 pandemic, and I hope for all our sakes that government is listening and all British Columbians can come out of the other side of this crisis stronger and more united than before.

To keep it short, for the love of our most-important industry — coming from a very biased mining critic, mind you — I cannot support further bureaucracy that will most definitely jeopardize the benefits that come from this ten- acious industry. After all, we’re all in this together, and in British Columbia, it’s both yours and mine. Y eah, a little pun at the end. R.

Coleman:Thank you for the time this afternoon to speak about this particular bill, which brings in an audit function, a separate entity within Mining. [3:25 p.m.] I want to talk about mining to begin with for a little bit, then how we got here, and then how maybe there are ques- tions about how effective this will or will not be as we go through that to see how this will have an impact in the future. The B.C. mining industry has been pretty foundational to the fundamentals of British Columbia for a long time and a pretty key component of our economy.

Some people would refer to it as a sunset industry; some actually call it the old economy. I would tell folks who would say that that they’re terribly misinformed. If any one of you hold one of these — or have one of these, or an iPad or a computer — in this House, it does not function without mining. It is impossible because the components and the minerals that are in your phone are required to make that phone function. In British Colum- bia, we have copper, we have gold, we have coal, and we have a number of other elements in our mining sector.

I’ve had the honour of being in almost every mine in British Columbia, whether it be the Highland Valley Cop- per open-pit mine, one of the underground mines that I have been in, even the one up north of Campbell River that was on the edge of Strathcona Park. I’ve also had the opportunity to be in all kinds of other mines in B.C.

Every time I go see an industrial complex of any kind — whether it be mining, forestry or anything else — I’m always amazed at the innovation, the technology, the research and what goes into actually being successful at finding a mine, bringing it to market and then making the product come out in such a way that you can use it. It’s been a pretty important part of B.C. ’s history. Today close to 40,000 people in British Columbia rely on this sec- tor for their livelihood.

They’re some of the highest-paid family supporting jobs in British Columbia, very import- ant to families, in small communities and large, and signi- ficantly important for revenue-sharing, jobs and training for a number of our First Nations communities who do revenue-share and have agreements with mining compan- ies with regard to training and opportunities. I have to say that I’m proud to say that our mining Tuesday, June 23, 2020 British Columbia Debates 11755

sector is actually part of the transition to a cleaner eco- nomy. Electric vehicles require mining. Alternative energy sources, like solar and wind, all need mined minerals to build. So although you look at the raw side, the small footprint of a mine on the environment and on the land- scape, the reality is that it has a huge impact on the land- scape of the world. Without it, a lot of the things we enjoy we wouldn’t have. That even includes things like clothing, draperies and blinds in a house. All of these things come out of products that are mined in British Columbia and other areas.

We’re now known, and have been known for a long time, as basically the centre, globally, for mineral explor- ation. When I say that, it’s not just exploration in British Columbia. There are more than 700 mining and mineral firms that are based in Vancouver alone, and they explore and look for mines and work in countries all over the world. Approximately one-third of B.C.-based businesses that supply materials and goods and services to the mining industry are located in 20 urban municipalities in Metro Vancouver. Mining is a big deal in my community. The Knelson sep- arator was developed by a gentleman, Mr.

Knelson, many years ago. He was a contractor. He thought that with liquid moving and spinning, you could separate the other miner- als out of a copper mine — like gold, particularly, and oth- ers — by having it be able to be a circular pattern. Today those are sold worldwide. He started by drilling the little holes by hand in the first one, and today those and others that are also built in my riding actually go into mining all over the world. [R. Chouhan in the chair.] The amount of money by which this affects the economy is around $1 billion.

We have an opportunity, as we come out of this pandemic, following this, to be able to make sure that mining is part of our diversified economy. And we should build a diversified economy as we come out of the pandemic, not forgetting where our basis and fun- damentals were, but looking at what other opportunities there are with our industries that could complement, other resources that could be valued, or other things that could come out of the resource in the future. [3:30 p.m.] A major part of our winning formula, for a long time in B.C., has been this industry. It started with the gold rush over 100 years ago.

Shortly I will take two of my grand- children to Barkerville to see that national historic town. I have an opportunity to give them a little bit of the history of British Columbia. One reason we’re a global centre is because our province is rich in high-quality mineral exploration. We have high- quality education — people in engineering, geoscience and what have you. We actually make sure that we have invested in that expertise, in that scientific expertise to share globally so people can enjoy this industry elsewhere.

B.C. is actually Canada’s largest producer of copper, the largest exporter of metallurgical coal and is the only pro- ducer of molybdenum, all of them key projects. All of those are key minerals for everything from steel to, actu- ally, your cellphone, which that would have the copper and molybdenum in it, and other products that are in everything you do every day. It’s a well-earned reputation we have on a global scale. It is a stable place to do business, with the highest envir- onmental standards in the world.

B.C. is strategically loc- ated, as everybody knows, with the Pacific Gateway so that we can actually get the resources and the things to market. That makes us extremely competitive. Mining, as we all know, is affected by something that really is the toughest part of the industry itself, and that is fluctuating commodity prices, which always pose a chal- lenge to an industry where it’s very, very expensive to invest and build a mine.

But it is a cyclical business which requires people, with investment globally and internation- ally and inside B.C., to take the risk and build the mine and the business and then be able to weather the markets. Cop- per could be down for two years, and it could come back for three. Mines can be in the position of closing because of world markets and then could actually be wanting to expand because of the change in them. That’s something that is difficult. I must say, for British Columbia, our industry actually is pretty nimble, as far as being able to adapt and change and be able to deal with stuff going forward.

In the past few years, gross revenues from B.C. ’s mining industry rose from $7.7 billion to $8.7 billion in 2016. In our province, metallurgical coal, as we all know, com- mands the lion’s share of B.C. mining revenues at about 40 percent. That is followed by copper at 25 percent; zinc at 12 percent; gold at 9 percent; silver at 8 percent; lead at 5 per- cent; and molybdenum, which is considered a pretty signi- ficant mineral, at 1 percent.

That means it contributes not just to the well-being of the people in the world, with regards to the cell phone and any other things that they may use, but it also con- tributes to the well-being of British Columbians, not just from the fact that the mines are here and the minerals are here, but for the contribution of the taxes paid by the mines, and the royalties, to help pay for education and health care in our province. It’s also to support fam- ilies and communities across British Columbia, not just where the mine is but all across B.C., as technology goes up and jobs are created around them.

This is important because in 2016, the last time I had numbers for, mining contributed about $650 million to the province of Brit- ish Columbia’s dollars to operate on. There are 10,000 British Columbia families that work directly in the mining industry, as I said, 40,000 indirect and direct jobs. And really, in the other studies that we’ve 11756 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, June 23, 2020

seen about the Canadian Mining Association equipment — because the technology we build here is exportable — an

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	20200623pm-Hansard-n330
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	20200623pm Hansard n330
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	36b2101338c5871ef82c926901221df01bbe3722

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