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December 9, 2004

38th Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

vol. A

Hansard Transcripts

vol. B

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2004-Dec-09 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Thursday 9 December 2004 Jeudi 9 décembre 2004

PRIVATE MEMBERS'

PUBLIC BUSINESS

WATER SUPPLY

CELEBRATION OF HELLENIC

HERITAGE ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 SUR LA FÊTE DU

PATRIMOINE HELLÉNIQUE

WATER SUPPLY

CELEBRATION OF HELLENIC

HERITAGE ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 SUR LA FÊTE DU

PATRIMOINE HELLÉNIQUE

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

STEVEN TRUSCOTT

HOLIDAY SERVICE

ONTARIO FILM AND

TELEVISION INDUSTRY

AGRICULTURE INDUSTRY

GAMMA FOUNDRIES

AGRICULTURE INDUSTRY

INTERNATIONAL HUMAN RIGHTS DAY

BUSINESS IN PETERBOROUGH

OMA AGREEMENT

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON

GENERAL GOVERNMENT

STANDING COMMITTEE ON

FINANCE AND ECONOMIC AFFAIRS

VISITORS

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

FILM CLASSIFICATION ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004

SUR LE CLASSEMENT DES FILMS

PRIVATE SECURITY AND

INVESTIGATIVE SERVICES ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 SUR LES SERVICES PRIVÉS

DE SÉCURITÉ ET D'ENQUÊTE

MOTIONS

HOUSE SITTINGS

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

FILM CLASSIFICATION /

CLASSEMENT DES FILMS

SECURITY INDUSTRY

FILM CLASSIFICATION /

CLASSEMENT DES FILMS

SECURITY INDUSTRY

FILM CLASSIFICATION

DEFERRED VOTES

EMPLOYMENT STANDARDS

AMENDMENT ACT (HOURS OF WORK

AND OTHER MATTERS), 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR LES NORMES D'EMPLOI

(HEURES DE TRAVAIL ET AUTRES

QUESTIONS)

PUBLIC SAFETY RELATED TO DOGS

STATUTE LAW AMENDMENT ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI CONCERNE LA SÉCURITÉ

PUBLIQUE RELATIVE AUX CHIENS

VISITORS

ORAL QUESTIONS

HOSPITAL FUNDING

HIGHWAY 407

WOMEN'S COLLEGE HOSPITAL

AEROSPACE INDUSTRY

PROPERTY TAXATION

SOCIAL ASSISTANCE

HEALTH CARE

VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS

LABOUR UNIONS

PUBLIC INQUIRY

HYDRO PROJECT

GRAPE AND WINE INDUSTRY

OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY

COURT FACILITIES

PETITIONS

VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS

TUITION

CANCER CARE

FETAL ALCOHOL

SPECTRUM DISORDER

VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS

ORDERS OF THE DAY

ELECTRICITY

RESTRUCTURING ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 SUR LA RESTRUCTURATION

DU SECTEUR DE L'ÉLECTRICITÉ

The House met at 1000.

Prayers.

PRIVATE MEMBERS'

PUBLIC BUSINESS

WATER SUPPLY

Mrs Liz Sandals (Guelph-Wellington): I move that, in the opinion of this House, the government of Ontario should identify and protect moraines,

watersheds and headwater areas, beyond the greenbelt study area initially identified by the province, in which urban development would have a significant negative impact on groundwater

supplies.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Bruce Crozier): Pursuant to standing order 96, you have up to 10 minutes.

Mrs Sandals: First of all, perhaps I should start by making it clear what we're not discussing. What we're not discussing this morning is the

area that will lie within the proposed greenbelt.

What we are discussing is the area that lies outside the greenbelt, which in fact is most of the land mass of Ontario. This motion, if passed, will highlight the

need to address groundwater protection as we plan for growth in Ontario over the next 30 years.

If we cast our mind back to the Walkerton inquiry, recommendation number 1 said, "Drinking water sources should be protected by developing watershed-based source

protection plans" for all watersheds.

I'd like to tell you a little bit about the watershed that I live in, which is the Grand River watershed. The Grand River rises up in the northeast end of

Wellington county and north Dufferin, and winds through Dufferin county and over through Fergus and Elora and Wellington, over through into Waterloo region, through Kitchener-Waterloo, down through

Cambridge, through Brantford and comes out in the Dunnville area, down on Lake Erie. But it has a whole lot of tributaries, so in my part of the world we have the Speed River and the Eramosa River,

which rise in east Wellington and flow in at Cambridge. We have the Conestoga river, which rises in north Wellington and flows down through Waterloo region and comes into the Grand River. Over in

Perth county, we have the Nith River rising and flowing through the New Hamburg area and on down.

All in all, if we think in terms of the way we measure things in this House, the Grand River watershed covers nine ridings -- or, to put it in more normal

calculations, 6,800 square kilometres are in the Grand River watershed. The current population is over 800,000, soon 900,000 people, and the population in the Grand River watershed is expected to

grow by at least 37%, about 300,000 people, over the next 20 years alone. Some 80% of the residents, or over 600,000 people, get their drinking water from wells -- in other words, groundwater --

both municipal and private.

There are 800 active water-taking permits in the Grand River watershed, but municipalities are the major holders of those water permits. In fact, groundwater

accounts for 69% of municipal drinking water in this watershed, which is somewhat unusual for a watershed. That's why dealing with groundwater source protection is so very, very important.

I'd like to read you a bit from the Grand River Conservation Authority's watershed report for 2004. This is talking about the Grand River watershed,

obviously.

"The central part of the watershed is covered with moraines -- hills made up of loose soils with high levels of sand and gravel.

"When snow melts or rain falls, the water soaks into the ground, which feeds or `recharges' the aquifers below ground.

"Some of the water feeds shallow aquifers and eventually feeds coldwater springs or seeps directly into rivers and streams, providing them with a source of cold,

clear water, even in summertime.

"The rest of the water makes its way into deeper aquifers, where it feeds the municipal wells serving Guelph, Kitchener, Waterloo, Cambridge and many other

communities.

"In fact" -- what's interesting -- "about 80% of the groundwater recharge takes place in just 30% of the land area.... Thus, it is important that the function of

these moraines and sand plains be preserved in the future if the groundwater and surface water systems are to be protected."

But what's interesting is that, "Each of the major cities of the watershed is growing into a major recharge area."

To lay this out a little bit more specifically, because you can't see the maps in their reports, there in fact is one moraine which runs from south of Rockwood,

south of Guelph, south of Cambridge, north of Brantford, over into the Paris area. Another moraine runs down the west side of Kitchener-Waterloo. So all of the major cities in the area are located

very close to these critical moraines. So if I can go on to quote the GRCA:

"How do we deal with this, with all of the pavement and drainage associated with urban development?

"We can either learn how to build our communities so that water continues to enter the ground and that it goes in as clean as it can be, or we can develop our

cities in another direction.

"The water resources of the Grand River watershed have made this region one of the richest, most dynamic parts of Canada. If that is to continue, they will have

to be used wisely."

In fact, in order to address this, the Grand River Conservation Authority, together with the Long Point, Catfish Creek and Kettle Creek conservation authorities,

has already appointed a source water protection project manager, who will lead a team of water quality, geology and groundwater experts to carry out research. What they will be looking at are

studies on water use, the location and size of aquifers, stream flows, land use patterns, and susceptibility of water sources to pollution. I'm pleased to confirm that this position will be funded

by our Ministry of the Environment, after an announcement that Minister Dombrowsky made just a few weeks ago.

What is critical here is that Ontario will continue to grow. The greater Golden Horseshoe area will continue to grow. The cities in the Grand River watershed

will continue to grow. We understand that we live in a high-growth area, and because of that, our government has tabled Places to Grow legislation. We will be putting in place 30-year plans dealing

with economic expansion, infrastructure requirements where growth centres are going to be, and environmentally sensitive areas which require protection.

This motion ensures that as we plan for growth in the Grand River watershed and in other places like this all over Ontario -- because this motion is not just

about the Grand River Conservation Authority. I've talked about the Grand River because that's the area that I know best, but there are places all over Ontario outside the greenbelt where

groundwater is a critical resource. We need to ensure not that we stop growth but that, as we plan for growth, one of the critical components of that planning is looking at the areas which are

crucial for groundwater regeneration, because if we don't continue to protect groundwater recharge areas, we won't have groundwater, and if we don't have groundwater, there will be hundreds of

thousands of people who will have their water supply endangered. So it is critical that we actually deal with this issue and make this an important part of municipal planning, and that as we look

at this -- in fact, we don't have all the information we need. Even in my watershed, which is one of the leaders in doing research, we don't have all the critical information. We need to do more

study so that we understand the mechanics of groundwater recharge.

We need to understand how dense development can be on a moraine. Do we have rules that are different for development on a moraine than they might be on other

land? What is it that we need to do to ensure that our children and our children's children continue to enjoy the water resources that make Canada, and particularly Ontario, special?

One of Ontario's greatest resources has always been its access to clean drinking water. As we saw with the Walkerton incident, when we don't think about that in

planning for the future, we endanger the health of our citizens. I ask for the support of all members so that we can protect our water supplies for our children.

The Deputy Speaker: Further debate.

Mr Toby Barrett (Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant): With respect to ballot item number 45, I listened to the presentation from the member opposite making

the motion to identify and protect moraines, watersheds and headwater areas beyond the greenbelt study area with respect to groundwater supplies. The member indicated that this would cover most of

the land mass of Ontario outside of the greenbelt.

I do wish to stress the importance of our Great Lakes. Whether that's an oversight, I think it's very important that any discussion of water -- groundwater or

watersheds or headwaters -- should also make mention of and accommodate the health of the Great Lakes in the province of Ontario.

Our position was outlined very recently, and I'll just quote from the PC platform:

"A healthy environment is one of the greatest legacies we can leave to future generations of Ontarians. But investments in preserving our natural environment are

not only for the future, they are part of the quality of life for Ontarians today. All of us need and deserve to have confidence in the safety of our water."

Now, with respect to this motion, we clearly support the protection of drinking water. However, the wide-ranging nature of a motion like this does raise a number

of questions. I don't know whether these questions will be answered in the course of the debate this morning.

One concern: I've certainly attended a number of meetings, and one large meeting, with respect to the greenbelt, and the issue was raised concerning to what

that, of course, and farm organizations will mention this as well, the issue of compensation is raised.

A question arises with this motion and with the broader source water protection legislation that we're promised will be introduced by the end of this year: What

is the relationship of this motion to the plethora of other pieces of legislation that have been introduced by this government, and by the previous government, with respect to water? With respect

to the draft source water protection legislation, how does this motion relate to that? And I guess the question is, too, why would this motion be introduced today? Do we expect the government

legislation today or later next week?

I don't know whether I heard any mention of the Justice O'Connor report. Of course, much of this initiative over the last four years or so has come from

Walkerton and Justice O'Connor. As a government, we committed to implementing all 121 recommendations of the O'Connor report on Walkerton and made significant progress. Over 60%, or 78 of the 121

recommendations, were either put into effect or being implemented through major new legislation. I'd make mention of one: the Safe Drinking Water Act for Ontario. That act received royal assent

back on December 13, 2002, and provided the legislative authority to implement 50 of the 93 recommendations of O'Connor's

part II report. So I do wish to reiterate that we have a very strong

commitment to the environment. We committed to implement every single recommendation of the Walkerton inquiry report.

I do raise the issue that it's very important for government to concern itself with protecting municipal drinking water. How far do you take that? Can you

protect and study all water everywhere in the province, including the Great Lakes?

The member made mention of the Grand River watershed. It has been pointed out in this House a number of times that this present government is reviewing a major

expansion of a landfill, the Edwards dump, outside of Cayuga. This is a landfill on a wetland slough forest only two miles from the Grand River.

Hon James J. Bradley (Minister of Tourism and Recreation): I'm delighted to speak in support of this resolution. On two occasions in this House,

I proposed resolutions regarding the preservation of agricultural and environmentally sensitive land, and they received overwhelming support.

That is the pattern that happens so very often. People running for municipal office in our area, for instance, inevitably run to save the farmland. They're going

to preserve agricultural land. Provincial governments run and they're going to try to preserve environmentally sensitive and agricultural land. But when it comes down to the actual passing of a

bill or bringing forward legislation at the local level, for instance, when there are decisions to be made which affect land use, you find that the development industry has a lot of influence.

I was reading in the newspaper the other day some of the municipal people saying, "At the local level we really feel the pressure. The developers or the person

proposing the specific development live next door. They belong to our service club; they belong to a church or a synagogue or a mosque; or they just happen to be associates of people." So the

pressure on local politicians is always great.

There are areas outside of the present greenbelt which are deserving of the preservation legislation that we can see forthcoming from this Legislature in the

future. That's why I want to commend the member. This isn't the only area -- the greenbelt -- that requires this kind of protection. I've watched over the years different governments in power of

different political stripes struggle to try to preserve agricultural land. They've not been successful in doing so, necessarily. Each one has to a certain extent, but I think the legislation we

have goes a long way to meet that. Second, I also think it's important to extend it to other areas of the province. I commend the member for doing so.

Ms Laurie Scott (Haliburton-Victoria-Brock): I am pleased today to rise to join the debate concerning the motion brought forward by the member

from Guelph-Wellington. I think she and I are very much in agreement about some of the important principles of protecting our local environments. In the riding of Haliburton-Victoria-Brock, there

are several different watersheds and accompanying conservation authorities. The Kawartha Lakes, Lake Simcoe and Otonabee watersheds are just some of the local watersheds responsible for meeting the

need for clean water throughout my riding.

We depend on water in the Kawarthas for more than just drinking. Much of our economy, as the Minister of Tourism and Recreation knows, is tourism-based and is

driven by water-dependent activities such as boating, fishing and swimming. Our cottaging opportunities and recreational activities all depend on good water quality. Even the value of our land is

certainly tied to the water.

I don't know how many of you are aware of this, but even the native Indian word "Kawartha" translates into "shining" or "sparkling water." Champlain even came up

to the Kawarthas on one of his initial visits over to this side of the continent.

Everyone who lives in or does business in the Kawarthas is affected by and has a stake in water quality, and it's certainly a quality-of-life issue for us.

I'm sure some of you may recall the many petitions that my colleague from Parry Sound-Muskoka and I have brought forward to the House dealing with closure of the

Frost Centre. We're very passionate about this because it's embodied the very best of our part of the province. The Frost Centre was all about conservation and stewardship, the very things we're

talking about here today.

The motion we are debating reads, "That, in the opinion of this House, the government of Ontario should identify and protect moraines, watersheds and headwater

areas, beyond the greenbelt study area initially identified by the province, in which urban development would have a significant negative impact on groundwater supplies." The Frost Centre taught

the people of Ontario, the children of Ontario, the stewardship programs, so that property owners would be able to do their part to protect the land that they and their families are living on.

For many people throughout my riding, conservation and stewardship are more than things to talk about. They are certainly a way of life, and I encourage anyone

to visit the Frost campus of Sir Sandford Fleming College to see what they have done with their new building, how they are teaching conservation and how to live with it and how to promote energy

efficiency in the province.

I know it will come as good news that the conservation areas in my riding and Sir Sandford Fleming are already moving on this path. In fact, I think Susanna

Kelley said they're light-years ahead up in Haliburton-Victoria-Brock in their conservation. The Lake Simcoe Region Conservation Authority, for example, which touches on parts of my riding, has a

full range of GIS data available for the Lake Simcoe watershed, from standard infrastructure layers to natural resource layers, including recent Landsat satellite land use images. So the

identification of watersheds and headwater areas is the easy part of the equation. The province may have to work with the existing conservation authorities -- and I'm sure and hopeful that they

will -- to pull together the information they have been collecting. A lot of people have been working for quite some time to protect our natural resources, and the harder

part is to protect them.

That is where the government has to step forward.

I hope the government will recognize that throughout the province, landowners, especially those in my riding, have cared for the stewardship of the land long

before it became a political cause and long before many of the people in this place ever heard of the word "stewardship." The roots of many families go back generations, and many of us learned from

our parents and grandparents the importance of protecting the lands, both in and around our communities. I know my grandfather Scott was a conservation officer up in Haliburton county from just

after the First World War until 1959.

I hope the government will work with local councils and work with local conservation authorities rather than just impose a solution on them, like they're doing

with the greenbelt legislation. We're happy they have allowed those hearings to extend into January so that there's more time and to get more input, especially from the local areas. I mention this

because Brock township, for instance, as I've said many times before, is included in the greenbelt boundaries, but just on the township line. So it seems to be a little bit of a heavy-handed

solution on that, and I'm hoping they're going to be listening to the municipalities there about their concerns.

Today we're not talking about legislation -- and I honestly don't know what concerns I would have until it came forward, other than some of them mentioned -- but

we're talking about a motion. That motion speaks to a very important point. I think we should all support it so that our children and grandchildren will be able to enjoy the natural bounty of

Ontario.

Mr John Milloy (Kitchener Centre): It's a pleasure for me to stand and speak in support of this motion before the Legislature, and I'd like to

begin by congratulating my colleague from Guelph-Wellington for bringing forward such an important motion. As a representative of the Grand River watershed, representing a community located near

one of the richest groundwater sources in the province, I can only express my strong support for this.

What's behind this motion is the idea of growth, of balanced growth, of balanced planning. When I look at this motion before us, I say it's very

straightforward.

When we look at a community like mine, Waterloo, ironically, both Minister Gerretsen and Minister Caplan said the region of Waterloo was one of the models they

looked at in terms of the measures that have been brought forward to this House in terms of planning and an approach to planning with the work that's been done locally. The irony is that it's

outside of the proposed greenbelt. What my colleague from Guelph-Wellington is saying is that communities such as mine, communities such as hers, which rely on watershed, we need to take a look at;

we need to bring the same sort of balanced approach to planning to these areas as is done in the greenbelt.

This does not mean that there is no development in these areas. This does not mean that moraines and other areas will forever be kept green and there will never

be an opportunity to develop. What it means is that we're going to have smart development. We're going to recognize the fact that these areas provide water sources for many, many people and that as

we develop these areas, we want to make sure that it's done in a way which does not put these water sources in jeopardy.

When you take a look at the whole area around the Grand River watershed, to look at some of the facts: The population in the Grand River watershed is expected to

grow by 37% over the next 20 years, and in fact I've heard that that may be a low estimate; I've heard higher. The current population in the Grand River watershed is 800,000, covering 6,800 square

kilometres. Some 80% of the residents get their drinking water from wells. Surface water enters the ground through loose or sandy soils to recharge groundwater and enter these wells.

I think we have an obligation as a province to make sure that the type of planning and the type of thoughtfulness that's going into the greenbelt legislation is

extended to other areas, as I say, not to hinder development, but to make sure, as development happens, as growth happens in these areas, that it is done properly, that it is done right. That's why

I'm pleased to stand and add my voice in support of this motion put forward by my colleague.

Mr Joseph N. Tascona (Barrie-Simcoe-Bradford): I'm going to speak on this bill -- and I think some of my comments might be echoed by the member

from Toronto-Danforth -- because I was quite surprised that the greenbelt study area didn't apply to Simcoe county. There are some very strong reasons for that, which are outlined in this motion

from the Liberal member from Guelph.

First of all is the impact that development is having on the area's water supply. Lake Simcoe, in terms of its condition, has been significantly impacted by

phosphorus, and the lower water level on Lake Simcoe is quite astounding, yet a development is being proposed in Innisfil in my riding, in the Big Bay Point area, which would provide for 1,200 boat

slips on Lake Simcoe, which is just unbelievable, and a development in excess of 3,000 units.

The Ministry of the Environment and the Ministry of Municipal Affairs are going to have to take a very serious look at what's being developed along the water.

They shut down a project that was set up in Oro-Medonte around the Fourth Line that was going to develop a seniors' residence and golf course, because it was too close to Lake Simcoe. Yet I think

town council -- I don't know what the result of the vote was last night -- was looking at whether they were going to approve this particular project at the Big Bay Point area.

That's of serious concern for the situation of Lake Simcoe. I know the Lake Simcoe conservation authority does a good job, but they are not doing enough in terms

of protecting Lake Simcoe if they're onside with that development. That's my personal view. We also have the Bear Creek watershed that feeds into my area and also into Simcoe-Grey and Essa, and

that's significantly impacted.

What we're seeing is developers buying up large tracts of land in the areas outside the greenbelt -- huge tracts of land -- in anticipation of being able to

develop it. I don't know how a municipality is going to be able to stand up to them when they're buying thousands of acres in that area.

I also have one area that is under siege in Bradford West Gwillimbury. They're proposing a purchase of prime farmland in Bond Head, Bradford West Gwillimbury, of

9,500 acres to develop a community of 37,000 people. The town of Bradford West Gwillimbury isn't even a third of that size. It doesn't have water capacity for that particular development. But that

development is being proposed, which obviously will impact Lake Simcoe also, because Bradford West Gwillimbury feeds into the Lake Simcoe area at the south end.

So what you're seeing out there is, yeah, concern, and the member from Guelph is right in terms of making sure that we look, identify and protect, but why

weren't they in the greenbelt area in the first place? It's complete nonsense that they weren't put in the greenbelt area and you've got a developer feeding frenzy going on -- on all the farms; not

only in my area I imagine it's happening out in Cambridge and other areas that weren't protected by the greenbelt.

Certainly, you need responsible development. The bottom line is, when you put up a green light to developers and say, "OK, you can't do anything in this

greenbelt area, but you can come up into this area," really, what you're putting in place is, the government is going to have to be the protectorate of sound development. We already have so much

development up in the area that the highways are clogged, up Highway 400. We've been trying to get GO Transit as one way to alleviate that, and that hasn't come to rise.

Since the government exempted these areas from the greenbelt, I think it's important that they make sure the Ministry of Municipal Affairs and the Ministry of

the Environment are going to protect these water bodies. If they're not going to do that, then the greenbelt study is a disgrace, and it's going to be a record that this government is going to wear

because of what they've done to the areas outside the greenbelt area.

Ms Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): I commend Mrs Sandals for bringing this resolution forward today and certainly support the intent of the

resolution -- not surprisingly, because embodied in this resolution is the intent of some of the questions and issues that I've been raising in the Legislature and on committee about what's been

left out of the government's greenbelt, the existing greenbelt, let alone the rest of the province.

It's ironic, I suppose, that I should say this, but even the Tories, before they were thrown out and the Liberals came into power, had something called Smart

Growth, which was looking at the province as a whole, and which I was generally supportive of. Now, I admit it was just still on paper, just as the greenbelt legislation is right now, but it was

moving forward and looking at the whole province in terms of smart growth. That's what the Liberal government is saying it's going to be doing in other pieces of legislation, but we haven't seen

that yet, so we have no idea what the overall plan for preserving environmentally sensitive land and prime agriculture land across the province will look like.

Certainly, I attended a press conference a few days ago and raised the question as a result in the Legislature, based on municipal leaders for the greenbelt.

They're making the same point. They say, "For nature to flourish, the boundaries of the greenbelt must be based on ecological principles, not political borders." There is some real concern that

some of the borders just don't make sense within the existing greenbelt proposed by the government, and it looks more political in some spaces than based on science. That's what they're saying, and

they're saying, "If it's not in the greenbelt, it's open season. Anything goes."

They then give a series of recommendations, which would involve including some of the lands that we're talking about here today. "Failure to adopt these

measures, said Elgar, will mean that urban sprawl will continue to spread like a cancer in the GTA -- with disastrous consequences for clean air, clean water, wildlife and our children." That is

something that's put forward by me, and by some of the environmental groups who are very supportive of the concept of the greenbelt but who are making it very clear that all kinds of lands are

being left out that, if not included, you will not have a greenbelt that will do what the stated intent is, and that is to stop urban sprawl. It will protect some environmentally sensitive land and

agricultural land, no doubt, and that's a good thing, but it will not stop urban sprawl, which was one of the stated goals, which is why many of us are trying to actually improve it. I believe that

is the intent of this resolution today as well, to include those lands that have been proposed by many, as well as across the province.

I want to talk about some of the other things that I would like to see included, because the intent of the greenbelt is to protect environmentally significant

lands such as watersheds and headwaters. Sprawl produces polluted runoff entering waterways, and traffic congestion, we all know, that impairs our air quality and our water quality and destroys

water areas. The initial greenbelt study area brought forth last December did not fully capture significant water systems, but there were concerted efforts by many: environmental groups, NGOs,

sustainable planning experts and citizens. The government did listen, and expanded somewhat based on those representations, but there are still significant hydrological areas omitted from the

greenbelt, and I'm going to talk a little bit about those today.

One we don't hear about very much -- but it really ties in very closely to the issue Mrs Sandals is talking about this morning -- is the big pipe. You'll

remember that the government on the Friday of a long weekend in the summer -- I got the call when I was away -- said that they were going to allow the building of a massive sewer pipe to move 740

million litres of sewage from communities within the greenbelt to a Pickering treatment facility. This massive sewer pipe requires the removal of 66 billion litres of water from the underground

aquifer system of the Oak Ridges moraine in 2004. That's been given the go-ahead, and on top of that, this water is not being returned to the watershed that supplies the GTA's drinking water

supply.

The Oak Ridges moraine's groundwater aquifer system feeds more than 35 rivers and stream headwaters, including the Don -- which runs through my riding -- the

Rouge and the Humber, which flows into Lake Ontario. So the base flow of these rivers and Lake Ontario will be affected by this, yet it's been allowed to go ahead, which goes against the spirit of

the intent of this motion before us today and what the greenbelt is supposed to be all about. You've got to ask, why is this exempt from the moratorium? One of the largest water-takings in Canadian

history is being allowed to go ahead. Just so people understand what I'm talking about, if you're trying to visualize this, a deep underground swimming pool will be emptied out of the moraine every

two minutes for the next two and a half years. That gives you a picture of what I'm talking about here.

I'm going to refer to south Simcoe a little bit, although my colleague who is the representative of the area has described many of the problems with that area.

It is an issue that I have raised in this Legislature. One of the main gaps and one of the main problems in the greenbelt, as proposed, is not only the leapfrog part. By now, we all know the

problems, which is why I say that if the greenbelt goes ahead as it is, without adding this -- south Simcoe and other pieces of land and sensitive environmental areas -- you're not really going to

be stopping urban sprawl. You're going to have a big zoning change, and that's good, to protect those lands, but you're not going to prevent urban sprawl; let's be very, very clear on that. That is

why it is essential, if the government wants to be able to go out after passing the greenbelt and say, "We are stopping urban sprawl" -- it won't be able to say that unless lands like south Simcoe

are included.

This region, which at present is not included, contains rivers flowing north off the Oak Ridges moraine and Niagara Escarpment and into Lake Simcoe. It was not

included in the initial study area, nor was it included in the expanded belt. Its ongoing exclusion has set the stage for this leapfrog development I talked about. Developers will just leap over

the belt and develop like crazy there, which they're already doing. It has been under significant pressure for some time now from urban sprawl, and because it was excluded, these pressures are even

more heightened as developers, of course, move in and purchase more and more of that land because it's not included. Planning experts have thus described south Simcoe as the "wild west," because

that's where all of the development is going to be taking place now. Proposed developments for south Simcoe include a proposal for the construction of an entire city in an area that's already under

extreme pressure. This would be about 100,000 people, and that's massive by any scale. Furthermore, these developments are being proposed on lands not designated as urban residential in the county

of Simcoe's official plan. This is crazy. Even Simcoe itself is saying that this should not be developed. Without action, south Simcoe will be a principal site where development leapfrogs, and

we're already seeing that happen.

The Grand River, which has been talked about here today, absolutely should be included. I've been saying that for some time, and so have many others who are

trying to expand the boundaries of the greenbelt. It's a very curious omission indeed. That's the watershed for Kitchener-Waterloo and Guelph. This has been talked about today, and I'm very happy

to hear the members agree with me that this should be included in the greenbelt.

Then there's the issue of aggregates. I've brought that issue up here before and I've raised questions about it. I've said this during a question, and I never

thought I'd see the day, but when it comes to aggregates, the Liberal policy on it within the greenbelt actually makes the previous Tory government look green. Even they didn't go so far. You know

that.

Let me tell you what's going on. Contrary to protecting water and water sources, the greenbelt plan will permit new and expanded aggregate extraction

throughout the greenbelt area. And then there's the new wording in the Liberal government's proposed provincial policy statement which significantly strengthens the aggregate industry's clutch on

greenbelt lands and throughout Ontario. It didn't have to do that, but it actually went further than the previous Tories did. When it comes to aggregates, you're making a huge mistake. I think that

if this is not fixed and repaired, you're going to go down in history on this one as being worse than the Tories, whom you so roundly criticized when you were over here in opposition. You just have

to understand --

Interjection.

Ms Churley: I'm not kidding. You need to listen to this. Aggregate activity has a very serious impact on water sources and supply. It often

involves going under the water table, and it undermines groundwater integrity. You need to go back and take a second look at the new wording that's been put in, which actually makes it worse than

under the Tories. That's a fact; it's not just me saying that.

I want to point out to you, as I pointed out in question period here, that one of the worst examples is the slated expansion of the Milton quarry, which will

put a giant, huge pit in the Niagara Escarpment, and that's the spine of the greenbelt. There's going to be this huge pit allowed there, and it will threaten to dry up streams and wetlands. I'm not

happy about the deal that was made here. I'm going to be quite upfront about it.

I've been supportive of the government's greenbelt. With all my criticisms that it's not really going to stop urban sprawl, I've been supportive. Let's get

this piece done while we can, because the pressures to actually reduce what's within the greenbelt are so great, instead of expanding it, which is what I want to do. I want to save more. But I'm

really concerned, with it being out there, that a lot of pressure is being put on members from all parties to actually reduce what's already in the greenbelt. It's very alarming to me. I'm

extremely disappointed that this deal was made, because I think if we were able to pass the greenbelt in a hurry, now -- because consultations have been done. Let's get it done. There's still time

for consultations. There are a lot of other pieces of legislation that the government is working on, and we could continue to work on expanding it. My great concern now is that the pressure is

going to be so great that the lands that have already been designated are going to be reduced.

I also wanted to talk a bit about -- I've only got a minute left -- the fact that we need more ongoing funding for conservation authorities. They play a huge

role. They're going to play a huge role in this and many other pieces of legislation. Minister Ramsay did announce $12.5 million for watershed-based source protection in Ontario. That is directed

to the conservation authorities and municipalities to hire expert staff. But you have to remember that funding to the conservation authorities was absolutely decimated in the Tory years. Many of

them had to resort to selling off land to stay afloat, and much of that land did contain headwater areas. I think it's a shame that that happened. They need to be fully funded again so they can do

all of the work they should be doing.

To fulfill the goals set out by this motion before us today, the planning process needs to consider headwater and groundwater sources from the start, not as an

afterthought. However, the amended Planning Act did not see to this. In committee, I had proposed an amendment that would require official plans and planning applications to comply with source

water protection. The source water protection legislation, though, can require that this act and the greenbelt act and acts related to resource extraction comply with it. The amendment I made to

fix that was not accepted.

In closing, I support the resolution before us today and I urge the government, if they support this resolution, to go back to the drawing table and include

not only the Grand River but all kinds of other pieces of land within the general GTA area and within Ontario that need to be protected now.

Mr Kevin Daniel Flynn (Oakville): It's a pleasure to add my support to the member from Guelph-Wellington. In my opinion, the private member's

bill that's proposed here would certainly add to and complement the greenbelt strategy that has been submitted to the public at this point in time for their perusal on the greenbelt strategy.

I think, from my own experience in my own community of Oakville, planning at the local level has taken on a whole new profile with the public.

If I can tell you something about that Oakville experience, we decided we were going to expand our community, and we went to the public and asked them just how

that should take place, because we wanted their input. We expected a few people to come out. Well, people came out by the hundreds and they had some very important things to say to us. One citizen

came forward and said, "Did you know there's a moraine in Oakville?" The planners in the town and the consultants we'd hired said, "There's no moraine in Oakville." Then a little bit of research

was done and we found out we did have a moraine in Oakville.

Mr Ted McMeekin (Ancaster-Dundas-Flamborough-Aldershot): It was hiding.

Mr Flynn: That's right; it was hiding on us, I guess.

Then it became very interesting, the education that took place in the community around the issue of groundwater recharge and moraines. I'm not sure if many

people in Oakville could spell "moraine" before we went through this planning exercise. Now it's something they know an awful lot about and something they respect. They had go to books that went

back as far as the 1940s to find out the ideal mapping of the Trafalgar moraine, and that was contained in a book by Putnam called The Physiography of Southern Ontario. All of a sudden, people

around town were talking about the natural physiography of southern Ontario, talking about Oakville.

There's a whole new terminology in town now. People are starting to understand the values of watershed planning. People are starting to understand just what a

moraine does, and it is the lifeblood of our communities. It's what keeps our natural environment thriving. When we hear about endangered species, when we hear of groups coming forward and asking

us if we would do our part to protect endangered species, quite a lot of that endangerment has taken place as a result of the neglect of our moraines, of the neglect of our watershed when we've

been planning. I think we can all look around our urban areas and see areas where planning has been -- "not the best" I think would be kind in classifying it.

I think we can move ahead in a much better way. Other governments have attempted to do this in the past. I'm extremely proud of the greenbelt strategy that's

been proposed to date. We'll have a lot more public input, public opinion on that in the weeks and months ahead, I'm sure. I think it's going to be a momentous step ahead in the province.

I thank that the proposal that's been put forward and the foresight that's been shown by the member for Guelph-Wellington in proposing this private member's

bill, as I said earlier, will only complement the proposal that's already been put forward by our own government.

The same pressures that impact on the major urban areas in southern Ontario, like the GTA, also impact on the Guelphs, the Brantfords and the Londons. There

are a lot more watersheds in Ontario than simply the ones that surround the GTA.

So I'd like to add my congratulations to the member for Guelph-Wellington for bringing forward what I think is a tremendous initiative and lend my support and

urge all members of the House to support this bill today.

Mr John Wilkinson (Perth-Middlesex): I also rise today to support my friend the member for Guelph-Wellington and her resolution. I do that for

a number of reasons. One, as a member from rural Ontario, from the great southwest, I wanted to add my congratulations about the need for us to be cognizant of groundwater. All of us understand

surface water -- we can see it -- but groundwater is unique. As the Provincial Auditor reminded us, as Justice O'Connor reminded us in the Walkerton report, groundwater is vital to everyone in

Ontario.

Speaking on behalf of the farmers, we know that you do not foul your own well. We also know that we don't foul our neighbour's well. Because we all tap into

the same aquifer in a region, if there's contamination in one well, it will spread to other wells. So in rural Ontario we understand groundwater and how very important it is.

The challenge we face is to map something that cannot be seen, and this was key to Justice O'Connor. Speaking as the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of

the Environment, I want to remind all members that we are committed to mapping the groundwater of this province. That's crucial. That bit of science is so very key to what it is we are trying to

do.

We have two things that we have to concern ourselves with: The quality of the water itself, to make sure that this pristine, preglacial water that is contained

in moraines and underground and that we tap into stays as pure as possible, does not become contaminated; also, the quantity of that water. That's why I know our government and my minister were so

insistent when we formed the government to have a moratorium on the permit to take water. We weren't going to allow people to take water willy-nilly without paying for it, without any value to it.

There has to be a balance on the need for us to take the water, but we can't be grabbing a resource without any control, without any sense of its importance. If water is free, then we devalue

water. That is something we cannot afford to do.

I want to mention as well that we as a government, and my ministry in particular, unveiled draft source protection legislation. One of the key recommendations

of Justice O'Connor was the need to protect source water, and that draft legislation went up. It was, as I mentioned, actually recommendation number one from the Walkerton inquiry. So in November,

our government pledged $12.5 million to help municipalities and conservation authorities develop watershed-based source protection plans. The provincial groundwater monitoring network will form the

basis for these watershed-based source protection plans. The network already consists of 382 wells that monitor groundwater levels and quality right across Ontario. The network acts as an early

warning system for changes in both water level and water quality. This is done on most parameters which are specified in the drinking water quality standards regulation.

That's why I want to rise in support of the member for Guelph-Wellington. Her resolution is congruent with what we are doing as a party and as a government.

You cannot value something that you can't measure. You cannot value something as a society when it is considered to be free. Our government is very concerned about being able to map and measure

groundwater, and no longer will it be considered free, because water is invaluable.

Mr Dave Levac (Brant): I want to first thank my colleagues for allowing me to have a few moments to speak in the House about this important

issue. I have just a little bit of time to make a few points and hopefully I'll make them as thoroughly as possible.

Obviously, the member for Guelph-Wellington brings to us an important piece of a puzzle, and a piece of that puzzle is important for us to understand.

Let me make a couple of comments first on the generality of private members' time. This is the time for ideas. This is the time to bring out some of the

wonderful things that are happening in our ridings, some of the things that affect us as a population and as a community. It's an opportunity to push forward, push the envelope and make sure that

each and every one of us has a voice.

I have a relationship to the member over there, as I do with this member and that member and the people in the gallery: it's water, it's air, it's land. Those

three things are important to us for our survival. The member is offering us an opportunity to debate something that is extremely important, not just because it's life-saving and life-giving, but

because it's interconnected to all of us. We've got to get that right.

Do we all have the answers individually? No, we do not. For anyone to stand up and say they have the answer and here's how we're going to do it, they're wrong.

When we put the ideas on the table, debate them, discuss them, look at the expertise and look at the people out there who give us the opportunity to get that equation right, then we're going to

head on the right track, and that's where we're headed with this resolution. I thank the member for doing that.

There are a couple of groups of people I want to mention. The Grand River Conservation Authority -- a complete watershed, not boundaries. There's no line on a

map that says water flows a certain somewhere. We have several municipalities that work together to make sure our groundwater watershed is done correctly. To the experts at the Grand River

Conservation Authority, thank you for the wonderful work you do, thank you for the protection of our water. This is what we need to do collectively as a province. Thank you very much, member. I

appreciate your resolution.

The Deputy Speaker: Mrs Sandals, the member for Guelph-Wellington, you have two minutes to reply.

Mrs Sandals: I'd like to thank the members for Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant, St Catharines, Haliburton-Victoria-Brock, Kitchener Centre,

Barrie-Simcoe-Bradford, Toronto-Danforth, Oakville, Perth-Middlesex, and Brant, which I think covers most of the province, for speaking to my motion this morning.

There have been a few issues that came up that I would like to address. Protecting the Great Lakes was mentioned, and certainly that's something that matters.

Protecting surface water has been mentioned, and that's something that is also important. All of these issues will be dealt with in our source water protection legislation.

But what we're doing this morning is focusing on groundwater. I would like to comment that the entire province can't be included in the greenbelt, and,

recognizing that, we have put forward the Places to Grow legislation that looks at long-range planning outside the greenbelt. What we're highlighting with this motion is the need to look at

protecting our groundwater sources as we plan for growth outside the greenbelt.

I think it was my colleague for Kitchener Centre who spoke about the idea of intelligent growth. We can only plan for growth intelligently if we identify our

groundwater resources, and that requires a lot of research. The GRCA is one of the leaders at this, and they don't have the whole picture yet. But we have to work on mapping our ground resources.

Then we need to make sure that when we figure out how they work, we protect them so our drinking water will be there for future generations. And in order to do that, I encourage all members to

support this motion.

CELEBRATION OF HELLENIC

HERITAGE ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 SUR LA FÊTE DU

PATRIMOINE HELLÉNIQUE

Mr Duguid moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill 150,

An Act to proclaim a day and a month to celebrate Hellenic heritage in Ontario / Projet de loi 150, Loi proclamant un jour et un mois de fête du

patrimoine hellénique en Ontario.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Bruce Crozier): Pursuant to standing order 96, you have 10 minutes, Mr Duguid.

Mr Brad Duguid (Scarborough Centre): I'm pleased to place before this Legislature Bill 150,

An Act to proclaim a day and a month to celebrate

Hellenic heritage in Ontario.

Before I speak about what this bill will do and why it's important, I want to begin by acknowledging the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration, the

Honourable Dr Marie Bountrogianni, who brought this bill forward during her time in opposition. Ms Bountrogianni is not only the proud member for Hamilton Mountain, but a very respected and

successful representative of our Greek community right across Ontario. She's on her way here now, and she'll be speaking to this bill later on.

Democratic renewal is a very current topic these days, not only in this Legislature and in Ottawa, but right around the world. Here in Ontario we're beginning

to debate a number of potential political variations and structures in hopes of finding a way to engage more citizens in the democratic process and help reinvigorate interest and participation in

our system of government. While in other countries, such as Ukraine, we see people having to take to the streets to ensure that their democratic rights are preserved and protected, we see here in

Ontario an increasingly diminishing number of people participating in elections and an increasingly tainted amount of cynicism in our political system.

Any examination of democratic renewal has to begin with an understanding of what democracy is, not only its definition, but its origin and evolution. Democracy

clearly has its roots in ancient Hellas or Greece. Without the vision cultivated in ancient Hellas or Greece, it is hard to imagine the emergence of democracy around the world. However, democracy

is not the only contribution the Hellenes have made to our western civilization.

Tremendous advances were achieved in the arts, the sciences and the humanities. Hellenic or Greek sculpture, poetry, theatre and music were all of a level of

sophistication beyond anything ever previously experienced. Many of the scientific terms in common usage today derive from the Greek language. Astronomy, geography, mathematics, medicine, physics

and zoology owe their names and much of their terminology to the Hellenes. Aristarchus theorized that the earth revolves around the sun and rotates on its axis daily. Euclid gathered all the

geometric knowledge of the time and published it. Archimedes contributed many of the important mathematical theorems. Ptolemy built a library to house all the known books in the world. Next to the

library, a museum was constructed, where scholars produced encyclopaedias of knowledge.

Several schools of philosophy arose as well: the Stoics, the Epicureans, the Skeptics and the Cynics. It's easy to see that the cynics and the skeptics still

exist, and I think many of them fill the opposition benches these days. But this is private members' hour, and I don't want to get partisan when I say that, because I know full well that there were

skeptics and cynics in the government benches when they were in opposition as well. So let's be straight about that.

At this point, I'm sure a few of you are wondering -- and I know Mr Prue on the other side is -- "Is Duguid a Greek name?" I can assure you it's not; in fact,

it's Scottish. My ancestry is Scottish, Irish, Ukrainian and Russian. My interest in Greek heritage was not sparked by personal ancestry; it was sparked by my involvement with the

Scarborough-Florina fraternization policy that was adopted by the city of Scarborough many years ago -- decades ago.

My old friend and mentor, a former member of this House, the last mayor of Scarborough, Frank Faubert, was an integral part of the strong relationship between

Scarborough and Florina. Frank Faubert loved our Greek community and they loved him back 10-fold. Frank headed a committee in fact to move the Olympic Games to Greece permanently during the

1980s.

Back in those days, I was his executive assistant when he was in this place. I'll never forget the time when he stood in his place here in this chamber and

made a statement about the need for supporting putting the Olympic Games in Athens, Greece. The only problem was, Toronto was bidding at the same time. He got in a little bit of trouble for making

that statement, but he didn't care.

Interjection.

Mr Duguid: A lot of people were a little upset at him for that. But you know what? He didn't care, because he thought it was the right place

for the Olympic Games. He supported it then, and the Greek community loved him all the better for it.

Frank Faubert was passionately committed to the Florina-Scarborough fraternization. I know that his wife, Marilyn, is watching us here this morning on her

television set. I can tell you that you could not visit the Faubert family or the Faubert household without hearing stories of Marilyn's and Frank's trips to Florina, of which they told many:

stories of their adventures, stories of their love of the culture and the history of Greece.

Florina is a town in the northwest of Greece. There are a number of families in Scarborough who have their roots in Florina. The annual Scarborough-Florina

fraternization celebrations have been something that I have rarely missed in the 10 years that I've been elected by the people of Scarborough. I can tell you that in attending those events, they're

always very entertaining and well attended. There's always an air of pride by everybody there in being Greek, but there's also an equal air of pride in being Canadian. It's really something to

behold.

Scarborough has even named a street after Florina, Greece, and in Florina, Greece, there's a street named after Scarborough. So it's a very close relationship

that has developed over 20 years. This is one of the few Scarborough traditions to survive the amalgamation of Toronto, so I'm very proud of this tradition.

I'd like to speak a little bit about the impact of our Greek community in my riding of Scarborough Centre and right across Toronto and Ontario. Of our five MPs

representing Scarborough, two of them are of Greek heritage: John Cannis from my riding of Scarborough Centre and Jim Karygiannis from Scarborough-Agincourt. Both of these MPs have served their

community and served their country for over 10 years. Both have served Scarborough well and are very, very proud of their Greek heritage and history. I'm proud to be able to call both of these

individuals my friends.

Earlier this year, the Hellenic Home for the Aged was opened in my riding at the corner of Lawrence Avenue and Kennedy Road. This is the fifth Hellenic Home

for the Aged to open in Ontario and has already become a very important part of our community in Scarborough. I want to acknowledge all members of the Greek community and others who made the

Hellenic Home for the Aged in Scarborough a reality. It will serve our community for generations, and it's something we're all very proud of.

I've talked about why this bill is important to me, but let me also tell you a little bit about the bill itself. If this bill is passed, each year we'll be

proclaiming March 25 to be Hellenic Heritage Day and the month of March each year will be proclaimed as Hellenic History and Heritage Month. Why March 25? March 25 is the National Day of Greece. It

celebrates the day in 1821 when Bishop Germanos hoisted the Greek flag over the monastery of Agia Lavra, signalling the beginning of the Greek War of Independence.

It's important to note that this bill has great support in our Greek community. There are a number of representatives of the Greek community here today. I will

introduce them, but I'll wait until later on to do that, because I only have a couple of minutes here. I want to thank them for coming. A number of members will be joining me afterwards as well to

celebrate what we hopefully will do here today.

As my time winds down, I just want to say that it has been an incredible year for our Greek community. The victory of the national Greek soccer team at the

Euro Cup last July 4 set off celebrations in Toronto, across Ontario, and around the world like we've never seen before. I can recall my neighbour a couple of doors down, Savvas, coming down in his

sports car, honking away with his Greek flags flying in the wind after the victory, pulling into his driveway a couple of doors down from me, jumping out of the car and yelling down the street to

me, jumping about six feet off the ground and saying, "Brad, we shocked the world." And do you know what? They did shock the world; they really did.

Then, of course, this past summer we all remember the magical Olympic Games held in Athens, Greece. The experts said they couldn't do it. Months before the

games were to open, the media claimed they would never be ready, but they proved everyone wrong and ran an excellent Olympic Games back where they originally started, in Athens, Greece. My late

friend Frank Faubert would have been proud to see the Olympic Games finally returning to Athens. His dream was fulfilled as Athens welcomed the world.

It's time to recognize the enormous impact on our society of our Hellenic heritage. I hope I can count on the support of all members of this Legislature for

this bill to proclaim a day and a month to celebrate Hellenic heritage in Ontario. Thank you very much.

The Deputy Speaker: Further debate.

Mr Joseph N. Tascona (Barrie-Simcoe-Bradford): I have spoken to the member and am certainly in support of the bill that he's putting forth,

which will proclaim a day and a month to celebrate Hellenic heritage in Ontario.

I'm speaking on this bill also out of self-interest. My wife Helen's mother came to Canada in 1956 from Greece, actually the island of Ios, and she settled

here. They are from Windsor. I can tell you that the contribution that the Greek community has made not only in Windsor but in Detroit has been significant.

Also, in my riding of Barrie-Simcoe-Bradford, the Greek community has established itself as very strong in the business community. In our riding, there are a

number of restaurants that have been operated, for example, in terms of their business acumen -- I can name a few: Shirley's, Casa Mia and the Town and Country restaurants are operated by people of

Greek heritage and are the most successful restaurants, actually, in the community. I have good friends -- I had a young chap who used to work with me named George Sardelis, and his father, Dino,

and the whole family are tremendous contributors to the business community; the Nitsopoulos family; and a friend of mine with whom I practised law at one time, in renting the same space in the

building, was John Alousis. Those people have made significant contributions to the community. They're good corporate citizens; they're good citizens per se. So certainly it's time we recognize

that.

The member mentioned the Honourable Dr Marie Bountrogianni. She's of Greek heritage. I know she has been very involved in Greece, and certainly through our

Canadian government -- I certainly want to state that I appreciate the work she's doing, but I would like to see a little bit more work done in an area that affects my riding, which is the

children's treatment centre, which I have spoken up very, very passionately about. I actually was at a Christmas get-together for children on Sunday, at the Optimist Club. It was a Christmas party

for children with cancer. All of the children go to Sick Kids for radiation treatment and are also children who would benefit from the children's treatment centre. I can't pass up the opportunity

because, quite frankly, our area of Simcoe county and York region is the only area in the province that doesn't have a children's treatment centre. I know the minister wrote to me yesterday

indicating that her ministry is studying the issue. I urge her to stop studying it and to approve the process because we have a capital site that we would have, without any cost to the province, in

Barrie, and it's high time that this children's treatment centre was approved by the minister.

I wanted to say that I was asked by the parents on Sunday, at this Christmas party for the children that were suffering from cancer and also from developmental

disabilities, that it's important that we get that in our riding. I want to make it very clear to the minister that we appreciate the review but it is time to appropriate the funds. They're looking

for about $11 million per year to operate it, and I don't think that's out of line because the fact of the matter is, every other area in the province other than Simcoe county and York region does

have a children's treatment centre. It's not right they have to go to other areas to get treated for things that they could be treated for in their own area.

I just want to say to the member that certainly this is something that is long overdue. I know that we've had other days by which we've recognized different

ethnic groups in the province and their contribution, and I commend them for the work that he's doing. I don't know where he's going for his celebration, but maybe he can pass it on in his

response.

Mr Michael Prue (Beaches-East York): It is indeed a privilege and an honour to speak to this bill today. I want to start out by saying

something that is trite but absolutely true, and everyone should recognize it in our society: In fact, we are all Greeks. If you live in western society, if you live in North America, you know that

almost everything we are as Canadians, almost everything we are in the western hemisphere, almost everything we hold dear came from Greece and from Greeks. Our art is Greek. Our architecture is

Greek. Our science is Greek. Our medicine is Greek. Our religion, if you are a Christian, is Greek. Our philosophy and our great philosophers have their roots in Greece. Our politics and our

democracy comes originally from Greece, and even our sports have Greek traditions. We are all in fact Greeks.

I'd just like to expand on that for a little bit because people might think that's a little bit strange. Our art finds its traditions in ancient Greece from

cycladic art, but also the art of later styles. When you look at the statues that many people will see around the world, they all have their origins in Greece. The great painters of the time were

Greek and the whole tradition of painting and art, the whole tradition of the arts themselves, whether they be plays, whether they be poetry, whether they be the written word of Homer, all have

their traditions in Greece. The very famous architecture of the past -- of course everyone knows the Parthenon, but if you stop and think where the wonders of the ancient world were -- there were

seven of them, and only two were of non-Greek origin: the great pyramids of Giza and the Hanging Gardens of Babylon. The other five were all Greek. Even though they are not today in modern-day

Greece, if you look at which ones those were, the wonders of the ancient world: the Colossus of Rhodes, on the island of Rhodes; the great temple to Zeus at Olympus; the temple of Artemis, which is

in modern-day Turkey, but Artemis was a Greek goddess, and the temple was built by the Greeks. I'm trying to remember all of them as I speak. The Mausoleum of Mausolus, which is in modern-day

Turkey, was also of Greek origin. And there was the Great Lighthouse at Alexandria. The great wonders of the world, the architecture, the magnificent monuments that were built, were Greek, and if

you go around the world today you will see that that classic style is still emulated even in modern architecture.

Of course, our science is all Greek. Ask any schoolboy; he can tell you who Pythagoras is. Ask anyone about trigonometry or the development of algebra, and

they will tell you that they are Greek in origin.

Our medicine: The great Hippocratic oath that doctors to this day still state when they are called to be doctors emanates from Hippocrates in Greece.

Our religion: the importance of Christianity and the whole Greek influence of thought. People, if they are Christian, know that Christ originally came from the

area of modern-day Israel, but what they forget all too often is that as Christianity expanded, it was expanded throughout the Greek world into Greek cities by Saul, later known as Paul, and that

almost the entire New Testament was written in Greek and the concepts of the expanding new religion were all Greek thoughts. The idea of the Trinity is a Greek thought. It is completely foreign to

Judaic thought. We today, those who hold the Christian faith, will be very familiar with the Trinity -- the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost -- and that is a Greek concept. One can see how that

flourished in Greece.

I once had the opportunity to go to a lovely place called Meteora. You can see how the monks go up these enormous hills -- I don't want to call them mountains.

There's no access and they have to be hauled up on makeshift elevators, where everything is hauled up the mountain. They lived on the top of the mountain cloistered from the world. If you go there,

you can see how the Orthodox faith developed and maintained itself through wars and pestilence and everything else that has happened to Greece.

We all know about the politics of Athens, which was the first development of democracy in the ancient world. We all know about that. Mr Duguid was talking

about the sceptics. I would also like to remind him about democracy in Athens because they had something absolutely unique that I think might be useful in this House. Whenever something went wrong,

whenever they lost a battle or somebody gave terrible advice and a calamity resulted, of course they couldn't punish everyone in the democracy but they had to have a scapegoat. So they developed a

thing called an ostrakoi. They put names on clay and put them in a pot and they pulled someone's name out and that person became ostracized. That's where we get that word. I would think maybe the

members opposite, when things go very badly, should do the same. They should put all the members' names, the 71 of the government, in the hat and pull one out and that person can be the scapegoat

and sent away for the misgivings. So if we want to talk about democracy, this is a Greek tradition I think we could possibly welcome.

We also are indebted to the Olympic Games, which were developed in Olympus, in western Greece, and existed throughout the entire history of the ancient Greek

world and were embraced by the Romans. That is a tradition that is absolutely amazing. It is a tradition that is some 4,000 years old, in its earliest steps developing as an agricultural

festival.

Greece itself has survived wars, conquests and invasions. In spite of all of the things -- the melting pot that was Greece and continues to be Greece -- the

flavour of Greece, the essence of Greece, has survived. Not only has it survived, it has been embraced by the world.

I am reminded of a saying by Horace. Horace, of course, being a Roman, wrote the following, and I think it was absolutely as true in his time as it is in

ours:

Graecia capta ferum victorem cepit et artes

Intulit agresti Latio.

That means, "Greece, once overcome, overcame her wild conqueror, and brought the arts into rustic Latium."

The Romans invaded Greece, the Romans conquered Greece, but then the Romans themselves became Greek. To this day, if you go to Rome and look at the

architecture of that city, the art, the plays and the poetry, they are all Greek. Even though the Greeks themselves may have been conquered in a time of war, it was the Greek brilliance that shone

through and lasted forever and infected, in a good way, the Roman tradition. It is as vibrant today as it was then.

We know of the great Alexander, who went on to conquer the entire known world and died by the time he was 32, having conquered every land the people in that

area had heard of or knew of. We know his legacy lived on for many years through the Ptolemies, the Seleucids and the Antigonids. Ptolemies and Seleucids are easy, but the Antigonids are tough ones

to remember.

We know his legacy lasted forever. We know his legacy lasted down into the Roman period. In fact, when Rome itself fell, when the barbarian hordes came in in

the fifth century and Rome fell, was sacked and was gone and that civilization went into complete eclipse, it survived in Greece and Byzantium for another 1,000 years. The Greeks themselves kept

alive the arts, architecture and science in Constantinople and in all of the areas of Greece and places where Greeks lived.

We owe an absolutely huge debt to the Greeks, because what has survived from the ancient world survived as a result of the Byzantine Empire, survived as a

result of Greeks insisting that the arts, culture and science survive. Greece went into a long period, one would say, of decline, after that period in 1453 and was part of the Ottoman Empire, but

the Greeks never, ever gave up what they believed in: democracy and their country.

It wasn't until the 19th century, when people started to see what was happening in the world -- in the United States, in France and the colonies of Great

Britain, like Canada, that were struggling to be free and that were getting constitutional rights -- the people in Greece were no exception. They had been invaded and conquered but their will and

spirit had never, ever been defeated. In 1821, the first movement was taken to throw off that yoke of oppression, and by 1827, Greece was a free nation.

The year 1821 is a remarkable year in Greek history, remarkable for the heroes of that period. One hero, who is not too well known in Canada but who is revered

throughout Greece, is Kolokotronis: how he went to the initial battles -- a brilliant field marshal -- how he mobilized the Greeks and how he was able to overthrow superior armies. If you go to

almost every little town in Greece today, you will see a statue to that great man, and he deserves to be remembered for the liberation of his country.

For the few minutes remaining, I would like to talk about other Greek groups, such as the Pontians. I am proud to say I am a Pontian.

Remarks in Greek.

Pontians are a group from Asia Minor. They lived there for 3,000 years. They were Greek-speaking people. At the time of Ataturk, they were forcefully and

forcibly removed from their home of some 3,000 years and they were sent packing. Many of them died. There is no doubt in my mind they were persecuted and no doubt in my mind that it was a pogrom.

They had nowhere to go. Many of them returned to Greece, although they no longer spoke the same language because 3,000 years of separation had changed a great deal. But they went to Greece and they

did remarkable things in that country. They revitalized the agricultural industry and they built and rebuilt Greece.

There is a very strong Pontian community in Toronto. There is a statue, I am proud to say, for the Pontian community in East York. It is one of the only

statues to commemorate the deaths and the problems of that wonderful people. It is located near the Walter Stewart library in East York. It is a tremendous statue, and Pontians from all over the

world come to remember their past, to remember what happened between 1916 and 1921. They come and continue to come --

Interjections.

Mr Prue: Mr Speaker, I'm having a hard time even hearing myself.

The Deputy Speaker: Me too. The level of conversation in here is rising. I'd like to hear the speaker, please. Please have some order.

Mr Prue: Thank you, Mr Speaker.

That statue continues to be there. Pontians come from around the world and remember the problems of their forefathers but also the strength in what their

community continues to do.

As I said, I am proud to be a Pontian. I have been adopted. I am the only adopted Pontian, I think, in the world, and I have a plaque to that effect in my

office. I'm very proud to say that I am a Pontian.

Mr Tony Ruprecht (Davenport): Where are your documents?

Mr Prue: It's in my office. Come and look. It was in 2000, so I've been a Pontian for four years now.

The Greeks in Canada have prospered. They have done extremely well over all of the years. We in East York are proud that we are twinned with a city in Greece,

the city of Tripolis. I have been there. It is a wonderful, remarkable community. The Greeks in East York number up to 7,000 people and in my riding make up about 4% of the population.

I invite people from across Ontario to experience Greek culture in Canada. Please come to the Danforth. If you want to taste the finest food of Greek origin in

the world, come to the Danforth. If you want to see the joie de vivre of the Greek people, come to the Danforth. You will see that they know how to enjoy life. They know how to celebrate who and

what they are. I thank all of them for the contribution they have made to our society. Canada is a better place. And the world truly is Greek.

Ms Kathleen O. Wynne (Don Valley West): It really is a pleasure to rise today to support Bill 150. I'd like to begin by congratulating the

member for Scarborough Centre, Mr Duguid, for bringing this forward. He has brought forward a piece of legislation that would bring province-wide recognition of the important contribution of the

Greek community in his own community of Scarborough Centre but also of the 100,000 people of Greek descent who live in Ontario. Following in the footsteps of his mentor, the late Frank Faubert, Mr

Duguid has taken a strong interest in the Greek community in Scarborough, and I know this legislation is a direct result of that interest.

This debate allows us to acknowledge many of the signature contributions of Hellenic civilization to all civilizations, to civilization writ large, the system

we know as democracy being chief among those but also the tremendous contributions in terms of art, literature and philosophy. We mustn't, as a society, underestimate those contributions.

We've heard about the Greek contribution in Scarborough Centre, and I know Dr Bountrogianni is going to be talking about the contribution in the community of

Hamilton. Like so many communities around Ontario, my community of Don Valley West has benefited from a strong Greek presence. In particular, the community of Thorncliffe Park has been home to a

significant Greek presence since its construction in the late 1950s and early 1960s. Today, Thorncliffe Park is home to the headquarters of the Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Toronto, on Overlea

Boulevard, and St Demetrios Greek Orthodox Church, as well as the headquarters of the Greek Community of Metropolitan Toronto and the Cypriot Community of Toronto on Thorncliffe Park Drive.

The other thing I want to talk about is the informal organization of the Greek community in Thorncliffe Park. On any given morning, I can go to the Tim Hortons

in Thorncliffe Park and I will find many members of the Greek community from that area having their conversation, having their daily check-in. I think about that group, and when I go and speak to

them what I'm seeing is the way democracy works. People talk to each other. There's a town square. There's a place to gather. We shouldn't underestimate that tradition in the Greek community.

I'd like to acknowledge that Thorncliffe Park's vibrancy is in no small part a result of the Greek community that settled there. I'd like to recognize the

community leadership provided by Metropolitan Archbishop Sotirios, who's been a strong advocate for the Greek community in Don Valley West, as well as the important role played by Reverend

Charalambos at St Demetrios Greek Orthodox Church.

This bill and the heritage day and month it'll create will give us an opportunity to recognize our Greek community as an integral part of the Ontario mosaic. I

think that's something we should all be able to support. That recognition of the varied ethnocultural communities is an integral part of our understanding of who we are in Ontario, and the fact

that it is all but a cliché really demonstrates how far we have come along this road as a society.

So I'm happy to support this bill. For Greek Canadians, its passage will signal a recognition of their contribution to this society, and for the rest of us it

brings us an opportunity to celebrate and increase our awareness of Greek heritage. Thank you, Mr Duguid, for introducing the bill.

The Deputy Speaker: Further debate? The member for Mississauga East.

Mr Peter Fonseca (Mississauga East): Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, or in Greek, epharisto, and epharisto to our guests. I would like to

thank the member for Scarborough Centre for bringing this bill forward,

An Act to proclaim a day and a month to celebrate Hellenic heritage in Ontario.

Before I start, I'm going to say that it is a little difficult for me to get up here today. My background is that I'm a Portuguese Canadian. To see Portugal

and Greece in that Euro 2004 final was riveting. It was a difficult loss for the Portuguese Canadians. But what was great was that everybody was able to come out on the streets and celebrate in a

very peaceful way. Everybody was waving their flags. I thought it was a great celebration and a great show of what we have here in Ontario, where all cultures can come together and celebrate in

great Hellenic tradition, one of democracy. For me to get up here, I'm being a good sport, and that comes from my Olympic background.

The opportunity I had to travel to Greece this past summer to watch the Olympic Games was tremendous. My days as a marathon runner are far behind me, but I

wanted to make sure that I did the old course, so I went out to Marathon and made my way from Marathon to Athens. It didn't take me what it used to take me, two hours and a few minutes; it took me

a good deal longer, almost half a day, because I stopped at many restaurants and spoke to many people. The culture was just tremendous. The people were so warm and the food was terrific. When we

talk about a healthy culture, we talk about the Greeks. The Mediterranean diet is one of the healthiest diets in the world. They have one of the longest lifespans in the world because of using

olive oil. All those viewing today should get out to a Greek restaurant in your community and eat some of that fantastic food: the olive oils, the salads, the cheeses, the souvlaki. It was all

wonderful.

The Olympics are what is so important to me from the Greek culture because they touched me so greatly, from the first games in 776 BC to the modern-day

Olympics that came back to Greece in 1896 and have continued. It's really where the world comes together in a peaceful way and we're able to celebrate Olympic values of peace and fairness and

fraternity, and the human spirit and breaking barriers. I was able to bring forward a private member's bill, my Olympic Day bill, which really complements and works so well with this act that the

member from Scarborough Centre has brought forward. During my time in Greece, I got a chance to go out to the Panathenean Stadium, the old stadium.

All I say is that for all those who haven't been to Greece, get out there. It's a wonderful country, wonderful people, and we're so glad to have a great Greek

population here in our province.

Mr Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): It's my pleasure this morning to join in the debate during private members' hour on Bill 150,

An Act to

proclaim a day and a month to celebrate Hellenic heritage in Ontario. It has been put forward by the member from Scarborough Centre, who I know has a strong Greek community in his riding. I commend

him for bringing this bill forward. I think it's very important to recognize the effect of Greek culture on the world, and particularly here in Ontario.

I had to consult my dictionary to get the exact description of what Hellenistic means. As an adjective, it's "of or relating to the period of Greek history,

language and culture." The time of the expansion of Greece was a long time ago: 323 to 331 BC. That was the period during which Greek culture spread throughout the Mediterranean and into the Near

East. So many important features of modern civilization come from Greece, whether it be freedom and democracy, first developed by ancient Greeks, or as Mr Fonseca just mentioned, the birthplace of

the Olympics. This year we had a very successful Olympics in Greece.

For me, the experience is more personal. I think of Parry Sound-Muskoka and the people I've come to know of Greek origin from my own riding; for example,

people like Tom Tzavidas, who owned a Subway in Bracebridge for many years. I tend to run into him around the Bracebridge hockey arena because his kids have played on the same hockey teams as some

of my kids. I know how much he cares for his family and how much he's given back to the town of Bracebridge over many years.

Also in Bracebridge are the owners of the Apollo Restaurant, Peter and Barbara Kokotsis. Incidentally, Apollo is the sun god and patron of music and poetry.

Peter is Greek, and Barbara is actually German, so on the menu there is Greek and German food. It's an excellent restaurant, and if you happen to be in Bracebridge, I would highly recommend that

you try it out.

I've also seen just how generous the people of the Greek community are in my area. I think of the owners of the Family Restaurant in Huntsville, Dino and

Bessie Georges. I met them because I attended the Spring Fling in Huntsville. It's the biggest fundraiser of the year for the Huntsville Hospital and hundreds of people attend this event. All the

food was cooked and donated by Dino and Bessie Georges's Family Restaurant in Huntsville. They've continued to do that for a number of years and are very generous in giving back to the community in

a big way. It was a pleasure to meet them there. After that, I decided I had better visit the restaurant and try it out, except the first time I went, it was too full, too busy, because it's so

popular. I went back another time and enjoyed a nice meal at the Family Restaurant.

I've bumped into other people of Greek descent who have been extremely generous. In 1985, I bumped into Nick Mirkopoulos, whom I met at an event. He

subsequently invited me to a Greek Easter celebration, which was a big event. I think they roasted 14 lambs outside on spits. It was a lot of fun for me to attend, and also great to see some of the

Greek culture.

Subsequent to that, our number two daughter, Reneé, was born in 1985, and Nick sent us this beautiful white embroidered dress for our new baby, which we

still have. In fact, I was talking to my wife and she said she saved it and had it out the other day, looking at this wonderful dress.

That's just a personal demonstration of how generous the Greek people have been. They certainly have contributed in our area of Parry Sound-Muskoka, and I

think it is very important to recognize this.

This bill will proclaim March 25 of each year as Hellenic Heritage Day. The month of March, and March 25 particularly, have traditionally been a great time of

celebration by the Greek community. March 25 actually commemorates the anniversary of the commencement of the Greek War of Independence, 181 years ago, which resulted in the birth of the modern

Greek state. Also, the month of March each year is proclaimed as Hellenic History and Heritage Month. As I mentioned, there is an awful lot of history there to be learned. In fact, when I graduated

from grade 8, my principal in Bracebridge Public School, Mr Neil Haight, gave me this big, beautiful, bound history book on Greece and Rome, so it was obvious he felt this was something very

important that I should be learning as I went on to further studies.

I'm very pleased to support this bill today and recognize the many contributions of the Greek people to our society.

Mr Ruprecht: Congratulations, first, to Mr Duguid on introducing Bill 150, the Celebration of Hellenic Heritage Act.

While we're very cognizant of the fact that our civilization has benefited a great deal from the ancient Greeks, we must also be cognizant of the fact that

many Greek Canadians struggled in Canada to maintain a livelihood, to create schools and special places of worship, and to ensure that there is a future for Greek Canadians. We want to be cognizant

also that they have made a great contribution.

I had the real pleasure in 1981, for the first time in the history of Toronto, to raise a Greek flag at Toronto city hall, along with Mayor Eggleton. As the

admiring throng was looking up at the fluttering flag of Greece, we were reminded of the great sacrifices people have made to ensure this flag flies in a free country.

We also know that Greek Canadians, who have made a great contribution to Canada, are not alone in this struggle. In terms of our own multicultural society, we

know that Greek Canadians -- I'm quoting right now from my book, which is called Toronto's Many Faces, and I have a

chapter here about the Greek Canadians.

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker: Commercials are out of order.

Mr Ruprecht: This is a very important book.

I want to make sure I don't go over my time, because the Minister of Citizenship is Greek Canadian and I want to be sure she gets her five minutes.

Let me just say, in conclusion, that "Toronto's Greek community numbers around 130,000, a striking contrast to the 20 Greek names that appeared in the 1907

Might's Directory. Many of the first Greek immigrants ... were young men, most of them refugees, who came in the 1890s to work in agriculture or in northern Ontario's mines, forests and railways."

Many of them also were professionals, especially "Dr Petros Constantinides, an eminent scholar and surgeon who arrived in Toronto in 1864. Today, the community is proud of its more than 15,000

professionals."

In short, we're delighted at the contributions Greek Canadians have made, and we certainly congratulate them today on this very special day.

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): It's a very distinct pleasure to rise today and respond to the member from Scarborough Centre, Mr Duguid, on his

Bill 150,

An Act to proclaim a day and a month to celebrate Hellenic heritage in Ontario. I too will be supporting this initiative to celebrate March 25 as Hellenic Heritage Day.

I wanted to rise for a couple of minutes on this bill to reflect on how important the role of Mr Duguid or all members is to respect and promote their own

particular view of the world, as well as the culture and heritage they respect and represent in their riding.

I had the very distinct pleasure -- I think the bill I passed here was Bill 133; I believe that's the bill number. I introduced the bill two or three times, on

Irish heritage. As such, during more amicable times here in the House, toward the end of the session, oftentimes they put together a private member's bill, of which this is one, and without much

debate they pass second and third reading and it's given royal assent. I had that privilege last year. Irish heritage, my bill, Mr Duguid, was similar: to respect the rich contribution that

cultures generally and broadly make to our collective standard of living, our wealth and mosaic culture, that we all enjoy and celebrate.

I had the privilege last Christmas, I guess it was, at the end of the session, to go to the Speaker's chambers and then from there to the Lieutenant Governor's

chambers and see the bill actually sent to law. So I wish you good luck, and certainly you have my support. From my own experience, it made me feel very gratified that I actually made a statement

while in my time here that meant something to somebody just beyond myself, to my children and to my community, and I wish you luck in that context.

In my attempt to familiarize myself with some of the background, I know a number of very productive and engaging friends -- I would call them friends -- the

Bastas family from my riding. They started out here -- I don't think they were in Canada all that long, perhaps a decade or two, and they had a very successful restaurant business and a bit of

catering. I think there were three brothers involved. My wife, Peggy, and I often go to the Massey House restaurant, which is in Newcastle. It is still run by Gus and Karen Bastas. It's wonderful

food from a very diverse menu, and the menu always has a couple of Greek dishes that we enjoy.

I would say that each of us, as I've heard Mr Prue speak earlier today, and Ms Wynne as well, would like to encourage all members to reflect, respect and

represent our diverse communities. It does enrich all of our lives.

I went to a Catholic high school, and you had a couple of choices of study. Mostly they were the classics at the school I went to; I'm one of the older group

here. You could take Greek or Latin and/or French. A lot of people took Latin and, obviously, they often chose to study Greek history and took Greek as another subject if they were in the arts

area.

Some of the things I jotted down here: It's a rich tapestry of history. If you think back to Homer, he recounted history through poetry and stories. But it

always fascinated me, just looking at the size of the country where half of the civilized world lived at that time in history, back in 1150, roughly. During the Bronze Age, their Mediterranean area

was about the size of Manhattan. You could drive across it in less than a day today. But much of our birthplace of democracy and civilization as we know it today did happen in that culture.

With respect to the work you've contributed to this and to my opportunity to encourage all members to rise and try to bring forward their suggestions, I would

say congratulations. I will be there to celebrate the March 25 anniversary or recognition of Hellenic Day.

The Deputy Speaker: The Minister of Children and Youth Services and the member for Hamilton Mountain.

Hon Marie Bountrogianni (Minister of Children and Youth Services, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration): Today I rise as Minister of

Citizenship and Immigration. I thank my good friend and colleague from Scarborough Centre, Brad Duguid, for introducing this bill. As you all know in this House, those who were here, I first

introduced it a couple of years ago. I was very proud to have raised the Greek flag two years ago in March for the first time in the history of the Legislature. The bill itself did not go to third

reading and did not get proclaimed, but the spirit was there and I knew that some day it would. I really, really thank Brad Duguid, my colleague from Scarborough Centre.

I'm extremely proud, as the only Greek Canadian in the Legislature, to be here to talk to this bill today. In a way it's honouring our dual heritage. It is

honouring the fact that we're a unique culture: Greek and Canadian. Like most people in Ontario, we have this unique mix of two cultures. We're so lucky to be from our wonderful cultures, in this

case the Greek culture, with its rich history, the initiation of democracy in that country --

Hon James J. Bradley (Minister of Tourism and Recreation): I wish I were Greek.

Hon Mrs Bountrogianni: Jim Bradley, the Minister of Tourism, wishes he were Greek. That's fine, Jim -- as well as being in such a wonderful

province and being able to fulfill our potential as a community, which we have.

The young people of the Greek community are overrepresented, for example, in universities. Education is very important to families. Those who, because of

poverty and political issues, couldn't go to school in Greece made a point of sending their children to higher education here. We were the second-largest community, actually, with respect to

representation in post-secondary education in the 1970s and 1980s. I'm very proud of that and very thankful to my parents and my parents' generation for pushing that.

I was very proud, not only as a Greek Canadian but as Ontario's representative for citizenship and immigration, to be invited by the Greek Parliament to the

Olympics this past summer. My friend the honourable member from Mississauga East, Peter Fonseca, was there as well. It was so special.

Interjection.

Hon Mrs Bountrogianni: Well, it was not paid for by the Ontario taxpayer. It was at the hospitality of the Greeks, and if anyone knows

anything about Greeks, they know that hospitality is number one.

It was such an honour to be there, and they did such an amazing job. I was very proud of the job of the Greek people and the Greek government. The Olympics

were beautiful. We were very proud. The opening and closing ceremonies were the classiest I've ever seen. I know I'm biased, but this was a bias that was shared by everyone I spoke to in Athens.

Athens was transformed into the most beautiful city in Europe -- unbelievable. And to think of all the negative propaganda against the Olympics and how they'd be dangerous, insecure and so forth.

We all proved them wrong, once again, that we are capable as a nation, as a civilization and as a country. I'm so, so proud of that.

I'm also proud of our rich history, and trying my best as a mother of two Greek Canadian children -- third generation now -- to teach them the language and the

history. We try and go back every summer so that they know and they see their roots. And on days like today -- and of course March 25, our Independence Day -- I'm well aware of my late

grandparents' and my late father's stories of the wars, of the multiple wars that my grandparents went through, right from Asia Minor, to Greece, to civil war, to two world wars and to amazing

political disruptions and dictatorships. But thankfully, there is a democracy in Greece today; there has been for some 25-odd years. We're very thankful for that. Democracy is complex, but it's

still the best system in the world. The Greeks invented it. We honour it here in this wonderful country and in this beautiful province.

I'll just say a few words in Greek now. Don't worry to translate it from Greek to French if you can't do it. I'll do my best to translate it if you'd like.

Remarks in Greek.

This is emotional. I'm very, very proud to be here. I'm very thankful to my colleague Brad Duguid for introducing this bill, and I'm also very thankful for

what my parents gave me, as well as for what my culture gave me. I'm very happy to be part of the introduction of this bill.

Mr Bill Murdoch (Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound): I only have a few seconds. I just want to congratulate the member for his bill and hope that it goes.

I was proud to bring in Tartan Day for Scottish heritage on April 6. I will vote for your bill.

The Deputy Speaker: The member for Scarborough Centre, Mr Duguid, you have two minutes.

Mr Duguid: I can't do this justice in two minutes. I thank all members for their comments and I'll acknowledge them each in a minute. But

first I want to introduce some guests who have come from the Greek community here in Toronto to join us today.

First, Ms Angeliki Prassouli, vice-consul of the Greek consulate -- if she could stand; Costas Menegakis, president of the Greek Community of Metropolitan

Toronto; Eleni Tsikritsis, vice-president of the Greek Community of Metropolitan Toronto; Theodore Antonopoulos, secretary-general of the Greek Community of Metropolitan Toronto; and my very good

friend Gus Klisouras, president of the Hellenic Canadian Educators Association of Ontario. I thank them for coming.

Again, I thank all the members who spoke in this debate. The member for Beaches-Woodbine said it well: "We're all Greeks." And for those who don't believe

that, they'll probably believe this: If you're not Greek, you probably wish you were. So you're one or the other. He gave an excellent presentation. He knows well the Hellenic culture and he knows

well the beauty of the Danforth, which is really the Mecca of Greek culture, probably, here in Canada.

The member for Barrie-Simcoe-Bradford showed his knowledge of the contribution of the Greek community right across Ontario. The member for Don Valley West

talked about the Greek community's contribution in her own community and spoke very, very eloquently about it. The member for Mississauga East spoke about his personal experience as an Olympian and

how that captures the Hellenic culture and spirit. The member for Parry Sound-Muskoka spoke well of the contributions of Greek members in his area. The member for Davenport talked about his book

and the contributions of the Greek community in his area as well. The member for Durham spoke about his Irish bill, which is similar to this. And the member for Bruce-Grey spoke about Tartan

Day.

In the 10 seconds that are left, I want to thank the member for Hamilton Mountain. She's been an incredible representative here in this House. She makes us all

very proud, but I know I can speak on behalf of the Greek community that she makes them incredibly proud of all that she has accomplished for them and for us.

The Deputy Speaker: The time allowed for private members' public business has expired.

WATER SUPPLY

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Bruce Crozier): We'll first deal with private member's notice of motion number 32, standing in the name of Mrs

Sandals.

Is it the pleasure of the House the motion carry?

All those in favour, please say "aye."

All those opposed will say "nay."

In my opinion, the ayes have it. Carried.

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker: I counted three. There is no argument about it, the member for Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound: I counted three. It is carried.

CELEBRATION OF HELLENIC

HERITAGE ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 SUR LA FÊTE DU

PATRIMOINE HELLÉNIQUE

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Bruce Crozier): We shall now deal with ballot item 46, Bill 150, standing in the name of Mr Duguid.

Is it the pleasure of the House the motion carry? Carried.

Mr Duguid?

Interjection.

The Deputy Speaker: Mr Duguid has asked that it be referred to public accounts. Agreed? Agreed.

All matters having to do with private members' public business having been dealt with, I do now leave the chair. The House will resume at 1:30 of the

clock.

The House recessed from 1201 until 1330.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

STEVEN TRUSCOTT

Mr Joseph N. Tascona (Barrie-Simcoe-Bradford): Steven Truscott's lawyer is working to have his 1959 conviction for a schoolmate's murder

overturned. He always maintained his innocence but disappeared into anonymous existence after he was paroled in 1969.

As you're aware, since 2000 Mr Truscott has gone public in proclaiming his innocence so that he can clear his name for his family's sake. The campaign to

exonerate Mr Truscott has led to a judicial review. The federal justice minister said that "there is a reasonable basis to conclude that a miscarriage of justice likely occurred."

Like most Liberals, he took the easy way out and, instead of ordering a new trial, referred the case to the Ontario Court of Appeal for review. In January

2002, retired Quebec Judge Fred Kaufman was appointed to do a review of the case. The Attorney General has had the results of that report since April 2004. In his report, Kaufman may recommend that

the case be retried or reviewed by the appellate court, or he can recommend a pardon.

A man's chance to clear his name hangs in the balance. The Attorney General has continued the Liberal tradition of taking the easy way out by refusing to make

the report public. Chief Justice Roy McMurtry is quoted in the Toronto Star today as saying he "has no objections to the release of the report publicly." The Chief Justice recognizes the need to

expedite the hearing.

I say to the Attorney General, stop hiding the Kaufman report. Why have you refused to release the Kaufman report so far? I say to the Attorney General, why

don't you stand up today and agree to release the Kaufman report publicly?

HOLIDAY SERVICE

Ms Kathleen O. Wynne (Don Valley West): This time of year in Ontario is full of charitable good feeling in our communities. As residents of a

cold, dark, northern climate, we long for light and warmth as winter takes hold. So candles burn at the heart of our festivals as we gather family and friends close to us.

But this can be a lonely time of year for many in our communities. Ask any faith leader, social worker, community police officer, nurse, therapist or teacher,

and they will all tell you that this can be a brutally difficult time of year for people without family or whose family members are alienated from each other.

Many Ontarians put forth extraordinary efforts at this time of year to help those who need help the most.

I want to thank all those caregivers who work so hard all year but who have an especially important job at this time of year. You are the families for many of

the children, seniors and disabled Ontarians who are living in group homes, long-term-care homes and supportive housing. You provide the warmth of the season, and you do it generously.

Thank you to the people who dedicate their lives to running food banks, women's shelters, out-of-the-cold programs and homeless shelters across Ontario for

your work all year but especially at this time of year when the emotional and spiritual need compounds the physical need of those living in poverty.

Thank you to the leadership at the Metropolitan Community Church of Ontario, which provides a sanctuary from homophobia for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transsexual

and transgender people year-round but especially at this time of year when many members of this community are not welcome in their own families.

Thank you to all Ontarians who dedicate themselves to helping those for whom this season can be a truly difficult time of year. I know my colleagues in the

Ontario Legislature share my admiration and gratitude for your work and your humanity.

ONTARIO FILM AND

TELEVISION INDUSTRY

Mr Jim Flaherty (Whitby-Ajax): I rise today to remind the government again of the promise they made on page 13 of their election platform: "We

will boost the Ontario film and television tax credit from 20% to 33%." They've been the government for about 14 months now, and this looks to be yet another Fiberal broken promise.

Yesterday at 6 pm, the finance minister sent out a news release saying that he is listening to the film industry's concerns. Ontario's film industry cannot

wait while the government dances around the issue, claiming to listen. People are losing their jobs today; business is leaving Ontario today for the United States and other provinces.

About 1,200 people came to this Legislature on December 1 demanding action, and the government's response is that they are listening. Action is required.

Everyone in Ontario knows we have a crisis in our film industry. The industry has been hard hit of late, and the Liberals, in government, have failed to keep

their election promise to increase the tax credit. Other jurisdictions, both Canadian and American, have followed the lead of the former Progressive Conservative government of Ontario in creating

the tax credits, often at a higher rate than Ontario is now providing.

There are 20,000 people in this industry -- 20,000 people who stand to lose their jobs. The time for action is now, so that Ontario can remain competitive on a

global scale.

AGRICULTURE INDUSTRY

Mr Bruce Crozier (Essex): Today marks an historic beginning for government in the agri-food sector. In our platform, Premier McGuinty had a

vision where government and the agri-food industry could come together to establish a long-term and open dialogue to ensure a bright and competitive future for the agri-food sector in Ontario.

Premier McGuinty recognizes the importance of Ontario's agri-food industry to our social and economic well-being, and today marks that commitment with the inaugural Premier's agri-food summit.

Our Minister of Agriculture and Food, Steve Peters, has been working tirelessly with the industry to ensure that the lines of communication are open, so that

the ideas and concerns of the sector as well as their opportunities are brought forward. Minister Peters's commitment to the sector is an impassioned one. He has brought to Ontario the agricultural

policy framework. He has made continuous efforts to maintain an open dialogue with all sectors. He has shown continued support for the agricultural sector through BSE funding and transition funding

for business risk management.

Today I'd like to take this opportunity to congratulate Minister Peters, as he was awarded the Canadian renewable fuels award for the exceptional work he has

done for this burgeoning industry. This is the greatest honour awarded to individuals who make an extraordinary contribution to the renewable fuel industry. Minister Peters announced a renewable

fuel standard for ethanol and has also made significant contributions to the biodiesel industry by announcing his intention to move forward with a parallel strategy.

GAMMA FOUNDRIES

Mr Frank Klees (Oak Ridges): "`The pollution is just horrendous. You can't breathe,' said Geoffrey Long, a resident of Cascade Court, east of

Gamma Foundries." That is a quote from the Richmond Hill Liberal on December 5.

Over the past two years, I have worked with Richmond Hill Councillor Arnie Warner, Ministry of the Environment staff, the town of Richmond Hill bylaw

department and residents of the Newkirk Road neighbourhood in Richmond Hill with a view to help determine the source, and to eliminate, offensive odours emanating from Gamma Foundries in this

neighbourhood in Richmond Hill. Following studies conducted by the Ministry of the Environment, it is absolutely conclusive that these odours are indeed emanating from this foundry.

I've brought this issue to the personal attention of the Minister of the Environment. I now have a letter from her, which unfortunately is not very helpful.

After reviewing the details of the issue, she simply concludes by saying, "MOE staff will continue to work with Gamma Foundries to abate the odour problem."

People in this neighbourhood have not been able to walk outside to enjoy their own property as a result of these odours. I am calling today on the Minister of

the Environment to take absolute and immediate steps to ensure that these odours are put to an end and that the appropriate orders are issued to this foundry to ensure that the neighbours in this

neighbourhood can in fact have rightful enjoyment of their property.

AGRICULTURE INDUSTRY

Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): I have a bit of a different take on what has been happening in regard to the Ministry of Agriculture and

the minister himself. I beg to differ from the member across.

First of all, I remember the promise that was made in the last election. That promise was that the Ministry of Agriculture was going to be a lead ministry. I

remember that last year, it didn't become a lead ministry. They cut the budget by $128 million, and the Minister of Agriculture is not even on P and P, which is priorities and planning of cabinet.

How can you be a lead ministry if you don't have the dollars in your ministry to do the job and your minister doesn't have any voice within cabinet? So I wonder why the government is touting

that.

I want to say that the Minister of Agriculture misses what has been going on in agriculture. There has been a crisis in agriculture. We all know what has

happened with BSE. There have been depressed prices. We know that costs have gone up for the running of the farm. We know that hydro prices are going to be going up as well. What is this government

doing to address any of these things? Quite frankly, not a heck of a lot. This government is lurching from crisis to crisis, leaving farmers high and dry.

I've got to take the opportunity to say a couple of words about the Nutrient Management Act. We know that that particular bill requires the government to

provide dollars to farmers to be able to comply with the act. We know it's supposed to be $72 million, but what has the government done? They've put $20 million forward, and I guess they're saying

to farmers, "You are going to pay the rest." So let me say, you have a strange way of showing your friendliness to the farm community.

INTERNATIONAL HUMAN RIGHTS DAY

Ms Caroline Di Cocco (Sarnia-Lambton): Today is International Human Rights Day. Today is a day we recognize the inherent dignity of people. We

celebrate the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family. We recognize that these rights are the foundation of freedom, justice and peace throughout the world.

International Human Rights Day celebrates the drafting and passing of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights by the United Nations. Today is the 55th

anniversary of that ratification. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights recognizes the inherent dignity and the equal rights of all people in all nations. It has served as a beacon of hope for

the world for 55 years.

Today is a day where we remember and advocate for the freedoms of people who are not as fortunate as ourselves. Today we celebrate living in a country where

basic human freedoms are enshrined. It is also a day to reflect on those freedoms and what they mean for us here in Ontario.

I hope all members of the House and people of Ontario reflect on what the Universal Declaration of Human Rights means and how fortunate we are, and will

understand how much more there is to do.

BUSINESS IN PETERBOROUGH

Mr Jeff Leal (Peterborough): I rise in this House today to share a remarkable achievement for my riding of Peterborough. This month's edition

of Canadian Business magazine has named Peterborough the top place in Ontario to do business. Peterborough is a tight-knit community with a high quality of life. It offers top post-secondary

institutions, Trent University and Sir Sandford Fleming College, as well as excellent schools. There are plenty of opportunities for cultural and recreational activities.

Peterborough now boasts an enviable unemployment rate of 4.2% and a diverse array of job opportunities, from high-tech to manufacturing. The city is home to

large employers such as General Electric and PepsiCo's Quaker Oats. Additionally, German electronics and electrical engineering giant Siemens Milltronics recently announced it would transfer one of

its production lines from California to Peterborough. There are also a number of homegrown business success stories, such as Ventra Plastics and auto parts supplier Merit Precision Molding. Five

new call centres have opened in the last four years. One of these is operated by the German airline Lufthansa.

The

article credits our Greater Peterborough Area Economic Development Corp for actively seeking out new business investment. The GPAEDC has been one of the

driving forces behind the DNA cluster: a private-public partnership that could result in an estimated 5,500 new jobs for Peterborough. The project would bring together all three levels of

government, Trent, Sir Sandford Fleming College, as well as partners in the private sector. The cluster would further DNA research through commercialization.

I would like to commend the hard work of the GPAEDC for its contribution in creating a viable and sustainable local economy for our community. Thank you as

well to the city and county of Peterborough for their leadership toward this goal.

I would also like to congratulate the people of Peterborough. A highly skilled and innovative workforce is a major factor in companies opening or relocating

within our community. It is the people of Peterborough who make the difference and show our community for what it is.

OMA AGREEMENT

Mr John Wilkinson (Perth-Middlesex): I rise today to address our government's recent proposal to the Ontario Medical Association. Our province

is at a crossroads in regard to primary health care reform. I feel the time for mere talk is over; now is the time for real action.

I want to go on record and agree with the former Tory Minister of Health, Jim Wilson, when he boldly said in this House in 1996, "All members should be aware,

because the government's already announced it, that 1996 will be the year we move ahead on primary care reform." That was talk. If I recall, the number of underserviced communities rose under his

watch.

Two years later, in 1998, the next in a long line of Tory Ministers of Health, Elizabeth Witmer, stated, "This program" -- meaning their new primary care

program -- "will mean more doctors in underserviced areas." That too was just talk. Again, I recall that the number of underserviced areas under her watch increased.

There are now 142 underserviced communities, a number that doubled while the previous government talked but did not act decisively. Many of those underserviced

areas are in my riding of Perth-Middlesex. Last month the family doctors in my riding overwhelmingly endorsed this deal. Our Minister of Health, George Smitherman, listened to the concerns of

doctors and improved that deal in six key areas.

The time for Tory talk has passed. Working with our most valued doctors, the time for Liberal action is now upon us.

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON

GENERAL GOVERNMENT

Mr Jean-Marc Lalonde (Glengarry-Prescott-Russell): I beg leave to present a report from the standing committee on general government and move

its adoption.

The Clerk-at-the-Table (Mr Todd Decker): Your committee begs to report the following bill, as amended:

Bill 96,

An Act to amend the Liquor Licence Act / Projet de loi 96, Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les permis d'alcool.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Shall the report be received and adopted?

All those in favour, please say "aye."

All those against, say "nay."

I think the ayes have it.

The bill is therefore ordered for third reading.

STANDING COMMITTEE ON

FINANCE AND ECONOMIC AFFAIRS

Mr Pat Hoy (Chatham-Kent Essex): I beg leave to present a report from the standing committee on finance and economic affairs and move its

adoption.

The Clerk-at-the-Table (Mr Todd Decker): Your committee begs to report the following bill, as amended:

Bill 106,

An Act to implement Budget measures and amend the Crown Forest Sustainability Act, 1994 / Projet de loi 106, Loi mettant en oeuvre certaines

mesures budgétaires et modifiant la Loi de 1994 sur la durabilité des forêts de la Couronne, the title of which is amended to read "An Act to implement Budget measures / Loi

mettant en oeuvre certaines mesures budgétaires."

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Shall the report be received and adopted?

All those in favour, say "aye."

All those against, say "nay."

I think the ayes have it.

Call in the members. This will be a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1347 to 1352.

The Speaker: Mr Hoy has moved the adoption of the report of the standing committee on finance and economic affairs.

All those in favour, please rise one at a time and be counted by the Clerk.

Ayes

Arthurs, Wayne

Bartolucci, Rick

Bentley, Christopher

Berardinetti, Lorenzo

Bountrogianni, Marie

Bradley, James J.

Broten, Laurel C.

Brownell, Jim

Bryant, Michael

Caplan, David

Chambers, Mary Anne V.

Cordiano, Joseph

Crozier, Bruce

Delaney, Bob

Dhillon, Vic

Dombrowsky, Leona

Duguid, Brad

Duncan, Dwight

Flynn, Kevin Daniel

Fonseca, Peter

Gerre