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British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

4th Session, 37th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Thursday, November 27, 2003 Afternoon Sitting Volume 19, Number 3 THE HONOURABLE CLAUDE RICHMOND, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Honourable Iona Campagnolo 4TH SESSION, 37TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Claude Richmond EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................Hon. Gordon Campbell Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations ..................................................................................................... Hon.

Greg Halsey-Brandt Deputy Premier and Minister of Education............................................................................................................................. Hon. Christy Clark Minister of Advanced Education................................................................................................................................................ Hon. Shirley Bond Minister of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries..................................................................................................................... Hon.

John van Dongen Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Treaty Negotiations..................................................................................... Hon. Geoff Plant Minister of Children and Family Development ..................................................................................................................... Hon. Gordon Hogg Minister of State for Early Childhood Development...................................................................................................................Hon.

Linda Reid Minister of Community, Aboriginal and Women's Services ..............................................................................................Hon. George Abbott Minister of State for Community Charter ..............................................................................................................................Hon. Ted Nebbeling Minister of State for Women's Equality..................................................................................................................................Hon.

Lynn Stephens Minister of Competition, Science and Enterprise ..................................................................................................................... Hon. Rick Thorpe Minister of State for Deregulation ..............................................................................................................................................Hon. Kevin Falcon Minister of Energy and Mines...............................................................................................................................................Hon.

Richard Neufeld Minister of Finance.........................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Gary Collins Minister of Forests................................................................................................................................................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of Health Planning .....................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Sindi Hawkins Minister of Health Services.........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Colin Hansen Minister of State for Mental Health................................................................................................................................... Hon. Gulzar S. Cheema Minister of State for Intermediate, Long Term and Home Care ............................................................................... Hon.

Katherine Whittred Minister of Human Resources.................................................................................................................................................... Hon. Murray Coell Minister of Management Services ............................................................................................................................................ Hon. Sandy Santori Minister of Provincial Revenue..................................................................................................................................................... Hon.

Bill Barisoff Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General...................................................................................................................... Hon. Rich Coleman Minister of Skills Development and Labour......................................................................................................................Hon. Graham P. Bruce Minister of Sustainable Resource Management ..........................................................................................................................Hon.

Stan Hagen Minister of Transportation..............................................................................................................................................................Hon. Judith Reid Minister of Water, Land and Air Protection ............................................................................................................................ Hon.

Joyce Murray LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Deputy Speaker ....................................................................................................................................................................................John Weisbeck Leader of the Opposition .......................................................................................................................................................................Joy MacPhail Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole..............................................................................................................................................

Harold Long Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ........................................................................................................................................... E. George MacMinn Clerk Assistant.........................................................................................................................................................................................Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk ...............................................................................................................................................................Ian D.

Izard Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees ....................................................................................................................................... Craig H. James Clerk Assistant/Committee Clerk.................................................................................................................................................Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms............................................................................................................................................................................. A.A.

Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ..................................................................................................................................................Anthony Dambrauskas Legislative Librarian ............................................................................................................................................................................ Joan A.

Barton Legislative Comptroller...............................................................................................................................................................................Peter Bray Published by British Columbia Hans ard Services, and printed under the authority of the Speaker by the Queen's Printer, Victoria. Rates: single issue, $2.85; per calendar year, mailed daily, $298. GST extra. Agent: Crown Publications Inc., 521 Fort St., Victoria, B.C. V8W 1E7. Telephone: (250) 386-4636.

Fax: 386-0221. www.leg.bc.ca Hansard Services publishes transcripts both in print and on the Internet. Chamber debates are broadcast on television and webcast on the Internet.

Party Standings: Liberal 75; New Democratic 2; Independent Liberal 2. ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) ..........................................................................Shuswap Anderson, Val J. (L)............................................................... Vancouver-Langara Barisoff, Hon.

Bill (L)...............................................Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Pat (L) ...........................................................................Prince George North Belsey, Bill (L)....................................................................................North Coast Bennett, Bill (L) ..............................................................................East Kootenay Bhullar, Tony (Ind. L) ...................................................................

Surrey-Newton Bloy, Harry (L).....................................................................................Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L).......................................... Prince George–Mount Robson Bray, Jeff (L) ........................................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Brenzinger, Elayne (L)..................................................................Surrey-Whalley Brice, Susan (L)............................................................................... Saanich South Bruce, Hon. Graham P. (L) .................................................

Cowichan-Ladysmith Campbell, Hon. Gordon (L) .............................................. Vancouver–Point Grey Cheema, Hon. Gulzar S. (L)............................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Chong, Ida (L) .................................................................. Oak Bay–Gordon Head Christensen, Tom (L) ............................................................... Okanagan-Vernon Chutter, Dave (L) ..............................................................................Yale-Lillooet Clark, Hon.

Christy (L) ....................................................Port Moody–Westwood Cobb, Walt (L) ................................................................................Cariboo South Coell, Hon. Murray (L) ..........................................Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon. Rich (L)................................................Fort Langley–Aldergrove Collins, Hon. Gary (L) ..........................................................Vancouver-Fairview de Jong, Hon. Michael (L) ........................................Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Falcon, Hon.

Kevin (L) ............................................................ Surrey-Cloverdale Hagen, Hon. Stan (L) ......................................................................Comox Valley Halsey-Brandt, Hon. Greg (L)....................................................Richmond Centre Hamilton, Arnie (L)..............................................................Esquimalt-Metchosin Hansen, Hon.

Colin (L) .......................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Harris, Roger (L) .........................................................................................Skeena Hawes, Randy (L)............................................................... Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Hon. Sindi (L) ........................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ..................................................................... Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Hon. Gordon (L)..........................................................

Surrey–White Rock Hunter, Mike (L) ..................................................................................... Nanaimo Jarvis, Daniel (L)........................................................North Vancouver–Seymour Johnston, Ken (L).............................................................. Vancouver-Fraserview Kerr, Brian J. (L) ................................................................ Malahat–Juan de Fuca Krueger, Kevin (L)................................................... Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP)................................

Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lee, Richard T. (L).........................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L)................................................................... Peace River South Les, John (L)............................................................................. Chilliwack-Sumas Locke, Brenda (L) ............................................................. Surrey–Green Timbers Long, Harold (L) .................................................... Powell River–Sunshine Coast MacKay, Dennis (L).........................................................

Bulkley Valley–Stikine McMahon, Wendy (L).............................................. Columbia River–Revelstoke MacPhail, Joy (NDP) ............................................................ Vancouver-Hastings Manhas, Karn (L) ..............................................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Masi, Reni (L) ..................................................................................... Delta North Mayencourt, Lorne (L)............................................................Vancouver-Burrard Murray, Hon. Joyce (L).............................................................

New Westminster Nebbeling, Hon. Ted (L) ............................................ West Vancouver–Garibaldi Nettleton, Paul (Ind. L) ...................................................Prince George–Omineca Neufeld, Hon. Richard (L) .......................................................

Peace River North Nijjar, Rob (L).....................................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Nuraney, John (L)..................................................................Burnaby-Willingdon Orr, Sheila (L) .............................................................................Victoria-Hillside Penner, Barry (L)......................................................................... Chilliwack-Kent Plant, Hon. Geoff (L) ........................................................... Richmond-Steveston Reid, Hon.

Judith (L).............................................................. Nanaimo-Parksville Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ..................................................................... Richmond East Richmond, Hon. Claude (L)...................................................................Kamloops Roddick, Valerie (L)............................................................................ Delta South Sahota, Patty (L).......................................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Santori, Hon. Sandy (L) .............................................. West Kootenay–Boundary Stephens, Hon.

Lynn (L) ........................................................................... Langley Stewart, Ken (L)........................................................ Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Stewart, Richard (L)........................................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Suffredine, Blair F. (L)..................................................................Nelson-Creston Sultan, Ralph (L) .........................................................West Vancouver–Capilano Thorpe, Hon.

Rick (L)............................................................Okanagan-Westside Trumper, Gillian (L)..................................................................Alberni-Qualicum van Dongen, Hon. John (L)..................................................Abbotsford-Clayburn Visser, Rod (L)...................................................................................North Island Weisbeck, John (L).......................................................... Kelowna–Lake Country Whittred, Hon. Katherine (L)....................................

North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wilson, John (L)..............................................................................Cariboo North Wong, Patrick (L)..............................................................Vancouver-Kensington LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn ........................................................ Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman................................................Hon. Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum ........................................................................

Gillian Trumper Bulkley Valley–Stikine ................................................................ Dennis MacKay Burnaby North................................................................................ Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds.............................................................................. Patty Sahota Burnaby-Willingdon ........................................................................John Nuraney Burquitlam............................................................................................

Harry Bloy Cariboo North..................................................................................... John Wilson Cariboo South........................................................................................Walt Cobb Chilliwack-Kent ................................................................................

Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas ....................................................................................John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke .....................................................Wendy McMahon Comox Valley .............................................................................Hon. Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville............................................................... Richard Stewart Cowichan-Ladysmith .........................................................Hon. Graham P.

Bruce Delta North.............................................................................................Reni Masi Delta South...................................................................................Valerie Roddick East Kootenay .....................................................................................Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin .................................................................... Arnie Hamilton Fort Langley–Aldergrove....................................................... Hon.

Rich Coleman Kamloops ......................................................................... Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson.......................................................... Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country .................................................................John Weisbeck Kelowna-Mission ...................................................................Hon. Sindi Hawkins Langley.................................................................................. Hon. Lynn Stephens Malahat–Juan de Fuca.......................................................................

Brian J. Kerr Maple Ridge–Mission ......................................................................Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows............................................................... Ken Stewart Nanaimo .............................................................................................Mike Hunter Nanaimo-Parksville.....................................................................Hon. Judith Reid Nelson-Creston......................................................................... Blair F.

Suffredine New Westminster .................................................................... Hon. Joyce Murray North Coast .......................................................................................... Bill Belsey North Island.......................................................................................... Rod Visser North Vancouver–Lonsdale ........................................... Hon. Katherine Whittred North Vancouver–Seymour ..............................................................

Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head......................................................................... Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon .......................................................................Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside................................................................... Hon. Rick Thorpe Peace River North ...............................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Peace River South ..........................................................................Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley...................................................... Hon.

Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain......................................................Karn Manhas Port Moody–Westwood ...........................................................Hon. Christy Clark Powell River–Sunshine Coast............................................................Harold Long Prince George North ................................................................................. Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson................................................. Hon. Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca .................................................................

Paul Nettleton Richmond Centre ..........................................................Hon. Greg Halsey-Brandt Richmond East ............................................................................ Hon. Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston ...................................................................Hon. Geoff Plant Saanich North and the Islands..................................................Hon. Murray Coell Saanich South...................................................................................... Susan Brice Shuswap ................................................................................

Hon. George Abbott Skeena ............................................................................................... Roger Harris Surrey-Cloverdale ....................................................................Hon. Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers.....................................................................Brenda Locke Surrey-Newton ..................................................................................Tony Bhullar Surrey–Panorama Ridge................................................... Hon. Gulzar S.

Cheema Surrey-Tynehead .............................................................................Dave S. Hayer Surrey-Whalley ........................................................................ Elayne Brenzinger Surrey–White Rock................................................................. Hon. Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard .................................................................. Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview..................................................................Hon. Gary Collins Vancouver-Fraserview .....................................................................

Ken Johnston Vancouver-Hastings......................................................................... Joy MacPhail Vancouver-Kensington .................................................................... Patrick Wong Vancouver-Kingsway............................................................................ Rob Nijjar Vancouver-Langara...................................................................... Val J. Anderson Vancouver–Mount Pleasant .............................................Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey..................................................... Hon.

Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena ............................................................. Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill ...............................................................................Jeff Bray Victoria-Hillside.....................................................................................Sheila Orr West Kootenay–Boundary ......................................................Hon. Sandy Santori West Vancouver–Capilano ............................................................... Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi................................................... Hon.

Ted Nebbeling Yale-Lillooet .....................................................................................Dave Chutter

CONTENTS Thursday, November 27, 2003 Afternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Tributes ....................................................................................................................... .............................................................. 8259 John McInnis J.

MacPhail Introductions by Members ....................................................................................................... .............................................. 8259 Tabling Documents.............................................................................................................. .................................................... 8260 The Health and Well-Being of People in British Columbia, provincial health officer, annual report, 2002 Statements (Standing Order 25B) .............................................................................................................................. ............. 8260 Campaigns by environmental activists B.

Suffredine Response to AIDS L. Mayencourt Violence against women S. Orr Oral Questions................................................................................................................. ......................................................... 8261 Public release of B.C. Rail–CN Rail agreement J. MacPhail Hon. J. Reid Hon. G. Campbell Public release of B.C. Rail privatization proposals J. Kwan Hon. J. Reid Vancouver school board advocacy kit K. Johnston Hon. C. Clark Severance packages for B.C. Rail employees P. Nettleton Hon. J.

Reid Petitions...................................................................................................................... ............................................................... 8263 W.

Cobb Tabling Documents.............................................................................................................. .................................................... 8263 British Columbia Treaty Commission, annual report, 2003 Second Reading of Bills........................................................................................................ ................................................... 8264 British Columbia Railway (Revitalization) Amendment Act, 2003 (Bill 89) (continued) Hon. G. Campbell Hon. S. Bond D. Hayer K.

Krueger Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act (No. 3), 2003 (Bill 90) Hon. G. Plant Committee of the Whole House................................................................................................... .......................................... 8277 Railway and Ferries Bargaining Assistance Amendment Act, 2003 (Bill 95) Report and Third Reading of Bills .............................................................................................. ........................................... 8278 Railway and Ferries Bargaining Assistance Amendment Act, 2003 (Bill 95)

Committee of the Whole House................................................................................................... .......................................... 8278 Health Sector Partnerships Agreement Act (Bill 94) (continued) J. MacPhail Hon. G.

Bruce Report and Third Reading of Bills .............................................................................................. ........................................... 8282 Health Sector Partnerships Agreement Act (Bill 94) Second Reading of Bills........................................................................................................ ................................................... 8282 British Columbia Railway (Revitalization) Amendment Act, 2003 (Bill 89) (continued) Hon. R. Neufeld K. Johnston

8259 THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 27, 2003 The House met at 2:03 p.m. Tributes JOHN McINNIS J. MacPhail: I rise on a very sad note today to in- form the House of the ve ry sudden and unexpected passing of John McInnis. John served several NDP leaders as a staff member in positions ranging from caucus research director in the eighties to executive director of the government caucus in the mid-1990s. What many didn't know on either side of the House was that John was elected to the Alberta Legislature as an NDP MLA in 1989, and he served as their environ- ment critic until 1993.

John was famous in the Alberta Legislature for insisting on riding his bicycle to work, even on the coldest winter days. He was a passionate advocate for the environment long before it became fashionable. He returned to the environmental move- ment and, until his passing, was a tireless advocate for environmentally responsible mining in British Colum- bia. Both my colleague and I just saw him this past weekend at our party's conv ention, and he was partici- pating with enthusiasm and positive energy. John leaves behind his wife and three daughters.

I'm sure all members will join me in mourning his passing and in celebrating his life. [1405] Introductions by Members Hon. G. Halsey-Brandt: Today I would like to ac- knowledge three special visi tors in the members' gal- lery from the United Kingdom. Please join me in wel- coming His Excellency David Reddaway, the newly appointed high commissioner of the United Kingdom to Canada. I am pleased that His Excellency has taken this opportunity to visit our spectacular province and meet with several of our ministers.

His Excellency is accompanied by Consul General James Rawlinson, who is the United Kingdom's representative based in Vancouver, and Mr. Rab Mackenzie, head of the Can- ada desk in the North American department of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in London. As members know, the United Kingdom shares a long history of cultural, economic and political ties with Canada and British Columbia. Part of that parlia- mentary tradition is question period, and I know that our guests will be impressed with the decorum and wit of this Legislature. I hope His Excellency the consul general and Mr.

Mackenzie enjoy their visit to Victoria. Will the members please make them welcome. Hon. S. Hagen: Today we have more visitors from the United Kingdom with us in the House. MacDonald Dettwiler is hosting a delegation of 40 leading CEOs, information technology directors and elected council- lors of local governments in the United Kingdom. The members of this delegation are taking the lead in the United Kingdom in introducing e-government and electronic service delivery. We are pleased that British Columbia is able to demonstrate effective delivery of services from our government to our citizens and busi- nesses.

Visits such as this continue to maintain and confirm the ever-renewing alliances and bonds be- tween the province of Britis h Columbia and the United Kingdom. Would the House join me in making them welcome. K. Manhas: I have been slowly, over the last two and a half years, convincing my family that I actually do work here. So they have been coming to find out, to make sure that it's true. Earlier this year you'll know that I introduced my parents to you, as they came and visited. Today I'm very proud to have my older twin sisters, who are here visiting from Winnipeg and Los Angeles. Dr.

Sheila Manhas, one of the twins, is a neu- rologist in Winnipeg, and Dr. Sharan Manhas, the other twin, is a laparoscopic surgeon practising in Los Ange- les. Also here with them is Dr. Neal Prakash, who is also a neurologist. They are all up here for Thanksgiv- ing weekend. It's perfect this weekend, because we're giving thanks for the great powder we've got on our mountains, and they'll be te sting that out. I'm very proud to introduce them in to the House, and I'd like the House to join me in making them very welcome. Hon. G.

Plant: Evelyn and Mervin Kuzminski have come to Victoria from Regina to spend some time with their son Jason, who is my hard-working executive assistant. This afternoon they have come into the chamber to spend some time with the rest of us, and I hope we will make them both feel very welcome. P. Sahota: It gives me great pleasure to introduce Garth Yoneda to the House. Garth is the program di- rector for HardHats.

This program provides people on income assistance with training for entry-level trades positions, and it is sponsored by the Ministry of Hu- man Resources in partnership with the Canadian Home Builders Associatio n, Grant Thornton and Camosun College. Apart from that, Garth also wears another hat. He happens to be my brother-in-law's brother. Would the House please make him welcome. R. Sultan: On behalf of the Minister of State for Intermediate, Long Term and Home Care, I would welcome 12 grade 5 students from Seymour Academy in North Vancouver–Lonsdale and their teachers, Ms. Celeste Hambleton and Mr.

Ben Glover. Seymour Academy has the very interesting motto " Cum Aquilis ad Astra ," or "Fly with the Eagles." Would the House please make these eagles welcome. [1410] R. Stewart: Coquitlam is a partner in the Smart Choices initiative and is working on sharing technol- ogy and information with the visitors we welcome to-

8260 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, NOVEMBER 27, 2003 day from Great Britain. Joining us today from the city of Coquitlam we have city manager Warren Jones. We have economic development and public affairs man- ager Al Ordge and Jennifer Wilkie, who is the project leader for the Smart Choices Society. Would the House please make them welcome. J. MacPhail: It gives me great pleasure, on behalf of my colleague and me, to welcome two longtime politi- cal activists from the riding of Maple Ridge–Mission: Greg Engh, who the vice-pre sident of the NDP there, and his partner, Anique Tremblay.

Would the House please make them welcome. B. Locke: I wish to welcome to the House today Mr. Bill Hutchings Sr. from right he re in the city of Victoria and his son Bill Hutchings from San Diego, California. I ask that the House make them welcome. R. Visser: I would like the House to make welcome Nilo Edwards, a friend of mine from Sointula, and Kelly Carson and Ketty Weiller from Port McNeill. They're down here visiting me, and I don't know why. It makes me very nervous, but I hope we make them welcome. K. Manhas: I'd like the House to make welcome Mr. Robert Shirra, my campaign co-chair during my election.

He's here from Port Coquitlam with the Smart Choices Society. Tabling Documents Hon. S. Hawkins: I have the honour to present the report on the health of British Columbians, the provin- cial health officer's annual report for 2002 entitled The Health and Well-Being of People in British Columbia. Statements (Standing Order 25

B) CAMPAIGNS BY ENVIRONMENTAL ACTIVISTS B. Suffredine: In a recent statement to the Nelson Daily News the Valhalla Wilderness Society admitted not only that they are part of the plot to block the sale of B.C. wood in China but that it's all about politics. In her letter, Ann Sherrod, the chair of the society, sets out what it would take for the government to stop the boy- cott when she says: "All it has to do is create the parks it promised in the Great Bear rain forest." Let me say that simply. She says: "Give us our park, and the protests will stop." So much for concerns about forest practices.

So much for concerns about logging practices. So much for concerns about endangered spe- cies. She couldn't be more clear. This is about politics, not about the environment. This valley-by-valley at- tempt to intimidate has gone on for too long. For dec- ades we have heard: "This is the last pristine valley. We just need one more park." It never ends, and it won't until no one has a job in the forest. This intolerable ef- fort seeks to stop people from doing what they have a lawful right to do: buy B.C. wood products so B.C. workers can support their families.

We've dedicated about 12.5 percent of our land base to parks and protected areas. I'm proud to support that, but when do we have enough? Since 1974, in Nelson-Creston alone we have 13 new parks, which include the Purcell Wilderness Conservancy, the Val- halla wilderness park, the West Arm wilderness, the Goat Range and Monashee parks — over 600,000 acres — and that's just some of them. If these groups want to exchange some existing protected lands for lands that have better use for parks, then let's talk. But let's en d the intimidation.

Families that depend on forests deserve better than to be held for ransom by irresponsible groups like this. The Val- halla Wilderness Society should drop this preposterous plot and apologize. Until th at happens, no one should support them — not with one red cent. RESPONSE TO AIDS L. Mayencourt: You may note in the House today that many of us are wearing a red ribbon. It's to signify World AIDS Day, which will happen on Monday, De- cember 1. [1415] British Columbia has over 13,000 individuals living in ou r province with this di s ease. Many of them have full-blown AIDS.

We recently commissioned a study through the Ministry of Health Planning and published a new Priorities for Action in Managing the Epidemics — HIV/AIDS. This is the first time it has been updated in many, many years. The goals of the British Columbia government are articulated in that.

They are, quite simply, to reduce the incidence of infection by 50 per- cent through the next five years; to increase the propor- tion of HIV-positive individuals who are linked to ap- propriate care, treatment and support services by 25 percent over the next five years; to enhance our prov- ince's capacity for monitoring the HIV epidemic; and to look at strategies for helping women to deal with the disease. Women used to represent only 4 percent of those that were HIV-positive. Today in British Columbia they number 20 percent. In Toronto injection drug us- ers make up only 5 percent of AIDS cases.

This number is estimated to be more like 30 to 40 percent in Van- couver. There are many examples of wonderful work that is being done in our community, but this speech is really not about policies and that sort of stuff, just as this rib- bon is not about fashion. It's about individuals. It's about individuals like a friend of mine and a friend of the Premier's, Mr. Glen Hillson, who was the chair of BCPWA and who we lost this year to AIDS.

It's about the many wonderful volunt eers at AIDS Vancouver Island and the people at Positive Women's Network and the people at Loving Spoonful that deliver home- cooked meals to people living with AIDS. It's about

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 27, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 8261 people at Vancouver Friends for Life and so many other organizations. Today we salute them. We ask that the whole prov- ince stop on December 1 and take a moment to re- member people living with AIDS and all of the people that serve them. VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN S. Orr: November 25 was International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women. In 1999 the General Assembly of the United Nations passed a reso- lution declaring recognition on this day every year.

The origin of this specia l day stems back to the 1960 murders of three sisters — Patria, Minerva and Maria Teresa — who were political activists and highly visi- ble symbols of resistance to General Trujillo's dictator- ship in the Dominican Republic. These three coura- geous women were murdered by secret police while being driven to visit their imprisoned husbands. Their bodies were later found broken and strangled. The sisters have since become a symbol of the need to eliminate violence against women worldwide. November 25 also marks the beginning of 16 days of activism against gender violence.

Within those 16 days, on December 6, is the day of remembrance for the Montreal massacre, where 14 female students were murdered while attending University of Montreal school of engineering. They were murdered for being women. Every minute of every day of every month of every year — in fact, right this minute — somewhere in this world a woman is being abused, beaten, raped or mur- dered. This is such a sad fact and, unfortunately, a fact that can only be changed with zero tolerance for vio- lence against women. This is why the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women is so very important.

Oral Questions PUBLIC RELEASE OF B.C. RAIL–CN RAIL AGREEMENT J. MacPhail: The Premier has said that he's going to campaign in an election on his broken promise to sell B.C. Rail. [Applause.] However, despite the enthusiasm of the members who are still in the dark, he won't pro- vide details of the contract. How's that for openness and accountability? The Premier has said this is a done deal. There's no necessity for confidentiality anymore. It's a publicly owned asset, and British Columbians are the shareholders on one side of this deal.

If the Premier is so confident that he can win another election on the deal, what's he hiding in the contracts that he refuses to reveal to British Columbians? Hon. J. Reid: In the contracts th ere are two types of information. There is commercially sensitive informa- tion, which that member should understand because it was her government that exempted B.C. Rail from FOI. Then there's general information, which will be released. That information will be released in the first quarter of next year as all the details have been finalized. Mr.

Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition has a supplementary question. [1420] J. MacPhail: There is nothing in the Freedom of In- formation Act that exempts the revelation of all the de- tails, and we have requested the information under free- dom of information. There is nothing for the minister to hide behind, and she knows that. This deal to sell B.C. Rail breaks a fundamental election promise, but the gov- ernment is too afraid to let British Columbians judge the deal on its merit. All the Premier has provided the public is a bunch of press releases and bad spin.

A very minor point, but important to Prince George: he said that the deal would reduce the cost of the Cameron Street Bridge in Prince George. It got front-page news. Wrong. He was referring to the wrong bridge. He said the deal means B.C. Rail will pay municipal taxes, but he already promised that for all Crown cor- porations. In fact, he hasn't delivered on that promise. Again to the Premier: why should British Columbi- ans be expected to believe him now, when his spin is full of holes and he's shown th at he can't be trusted to keep his promises?

They can't hide behind the Freedom of Information Act, and the minister knows that. Hon. J. Reid: There are so many people in this province that are so excited about the positive news with B.C. Rail that this member cannot understand what the excitement is about, cannot understand the growth opportunities, cannot understand why the people of Prince George are excited and why the peo- ple of Prince Rupert are ex cited. My goodness, even Dan Miller is excited about this. As that member knows, B.C. Rail was exempted from FOI because of that government's decision, be- cause of commercially sensitive information.

Because she can't seem to understand that…. Even though B.C. Rail is exempted, we have said that whatever isn't commercially sensitive information will be released. Mr. Speaker: Leader of the Opposition has a fur- ther supplementary. J. MacPhail: Well, certainly the CN shareholders are very excited. U.S. busi ness analysts yesterday and today are predicting that as a result of stealing, in a g o o d b u y , B . C . R a i l , C N w i l l g e t — wait for it, Mr. Speaker — a minimum of 18 percent return on their investment. Now, that information is available in the United States. Somehow it's not available here.

Interjections. J. MacPhail: You're right. CN gets a profit, not the taxpayers.

8262 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, NOVEMBER 27, 2003 Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order. The Leader of the Opposition has the floor. J. MacPhail: A point that clearly the Liberal MLAs m i s s i s t h a t t h a t p r o f i t w o u l d h a v e g o n e t o t h e B . C . taxpayers. It's unbelievable that they don't understand at all what they did when they broke their promise to not sell B.C. Rail. British Columbians have a right to know what's in the contract that the Premie r signed on behalf of the shareholders of British Columbia. The CN shareholders know.

There's no keeping of information from the CN shareholders. If the Premier wants to campaign on the contract he signed with CN, he should put the contract before the voters. That's what he said he was going to campaign on. Again to the Premier: what exactly is he going to put before the voters when he said he was going to campaign on his broken promise? [1425] Hon. G. Campbell: What we intend to put before the voters is whether or not they endorse an agreement that will move us forward to a whole new era of pros- perity and hope in the north of this province. Interjection. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Hon. G.

Campbell: What we intend to put before the voters is the fact that the British Columbia Rail Company continues to own the right-of-way, continues to own the railbed and continues to own the track; that the British Columbia taxpayer will get $1 billion up- front; that the British Columbia taxpayer will be able to write down $500 million of debt and pay it off on be- half of those taxpayers. Furthermore, what we'll be able to show British Columbia taxpayers is a brand-new northwest gateway to Asia for British Columbia and Canada.

What we will show British Columbia taxpayers is a new continental gateway in Prince George with a new wheel shop, with a new northern office for CN, with 375 new jobs in Prince George and the surrounding region through the airport. That's what we're showing to British Columbi- ans. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order. PUBLIC RELEASE OF B.C. RAIL PRIVATIZATION PROPOSALS J. Kwan: The Premier's got his facts wrong, and he knows it. He's just giving spin to British Columbians. What he's doing is hiding the contract with CN. He won't provide any of the details of the contracts with the other two bidders.

As the Premier knows, those two bidders are complaining that the bidding process was unfair and biased in favour of CN. If the next election is going to be fought on the Premier's broken promise to keep B.C. Rail, British Columbians should be able to compare the proposals to make the judgment. To the Premier once again: if the Premier is so con- fident that he signed the best deal, why won't he let British Columbians compare the deals and let them make the judgment on their own? Hon. J. Reid: One of the reasons we have had such an excellent result with this process is because of how we have… Interjections. Mr.

Speaker: Order, please. Hon. J. Reid: …consulted in advance with the communities and with the shippers, because we were so thorough with the work with the shippers in looking for the shippers' advisers, the information…. That's how we've delivered, for the shippers and for the communities, 600 new railcars — new railcars. B.C. Rail couldn't do that. That's the investment of CN to be able to build this province. That's where we have rate re- duction for the interline shippers.

That's where we have a new subdivision reopening, which will create greater opportunities for the grain to move in this province all the way to Prince Rupert. There are so many benefits in this, it's unfortunate that member can't see them and won't admit to them. Mr. Speaker: Member for Vancouver–Mount Pleasant has a supplementary question. J. Kwan: If the deal is such a good deal, why won't this government let British Columbians judge for themselves? Last time British Columbians took the Premier's w o r d o n B . C . R a i l , h e w a s n ' t s t r a i g h t w i t h t h e m .

H e p r o m i s e d n o t t o s e l l B . C . R a i l . G u e s s w h a t . H e b r o k e that promise. It's that simple. The Premier looks foolish trying to pretend otherwise. Now he says, "Trust me," again, but British Colum- bians won't be fooled once again. They want to see the deal and what was signed, and they want to compare it to the other proposals. It's not an unreasonable request for a government that promised to be open and ac- countable. Again to the Premier: why is he hiding the con- tracts and the other proposals? Why is he taking British Columbians for granted? Hon. J.

Reid: It is unfortunate that these members don't understand business in the slightest. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please.

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 27, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 8263 [1430] Hon. J. Reid: For the proponents to even be entered into the bidding process, they had to be assured of con- fidentiality. That was important to them, and that main- tains through the process. We will be judged on the re- sults of this deal — the results of the lower rates, the results of the railcars, the results of increased service, the results of the Chicago express, the results of the invest- ment into this province. We will be judged on that, we're proud of that, and everybody in B.C. sees that. VANCOUVER SCHOOL BOARD ADVOCACY KIT K.

Johnston: My question is to the Minister of Edu- cation. A few days ago the Vancouver school board issued a press release announcing that it was launching a district-wide advocacy program. The COPE- dominated school board in Vancouver — we all know it's a minor-league NDP team — is apparently so con- cerned with student resources that they plan to blow money that could be used for students on something called the Vancouver school board advocacy kit. I am truly concerned about this waste of money. I'm truly concerned that this money is not going di- rectly to students.

Can the minister tell us how much funding the school district receives and what parents can do to stop this initiative? Hon. C. Clark: I, too, have seen the campaign bro- chure from the Coalition of Progressive Electors in V a n c o u v e r . I w a n t t o m a k e c l e a r a c o u p l e o f t h i n g s , because the brochure does not talk about facts. It just talks about the political campaign that this board is engaged in. First of all, this boar d received $384,000 more this year than last, despite the fact that they have 500 fewer students.

They talk in the brochure about how they're having their tenth deficit in a row. Let me give you just a quick history. In '97-98 th ey predicted a $3.9 million deficit. Their deficit was zero. In '98-99, a $7.1 million prediction. Their deficit was zero. In '99-2000, an $11.8 million deficit prediction. Who was in government then? I forget. The defici t was zero. In 2000-01 they predicted a $5.2 million deficit. Their deficit was zero. Last year they had a $6 million surplus. This year they have had a $12 million surplus. They will not have a cut in per-student operating funding.

In fact, they will have the biggest per-student operating funding just like every other district in Brit- ish Columbia. So I say to the COPE school board: poli- tics more properly belongs on the campaign trail dur- ing an election period, no t in the classrooms of Van- couver. SEVERANCE PACKAGES FOR B.C. RAIL EMPLOYEES P. Nettleton: I think it's time we generated some real questions for the Minister of Education. I think she misses the rough-and-tumble of question period. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order. P. Nettleton: I promise to work on that next week. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please.

Order, please. Hon. members, let us hear the question. P. Nettleton: To the Minister of Transportation. Since no one — not the media, myself or the opposition — is likely to receive a copy of the B.C. Rail agreement, I find myself reduced to asking the minister for a few scraps of information from the bargaining table. I don't like to be repetitive, but I have no choi ce when it comes to jobs, jobs, jobs, and this is at this time my chief concern.

My question is about th e moneys that are being directed toward voluntary and involuntary severance, quoted in the range of $45 million over the next three years, which also leads me to wonder if that amount is indicative of the scale of downsizing. Can the minister please comment on this issue? Hon. J. Reid: The workers at B.C. Rail who have really applied themselves in the last few years to the initiatives that have been underway are very.… It's very important that they're well respected and that they're well respected as we move forward.

The severances and early retirement packages that are going to be offered are going to be quite generous. That's why the member is quoting a large figure. The pension plan that the employees have will continue on with those employees for and only for the benefit of the B.C. Rail employees currently engaged. CN does not take on that. It does not me rge with their pension plan. It stays with the B.C. Rail employees. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. [1435] [End of question period.] Petitions W.

Cobb: I rise to present a petition of 1,077 names: "We the undersigned, hunting enthusiasts of the Cari- boo, realize that the moose population here is healthy enough to support an open season for spike-fork bulls. This will provide residents of the Cariboo similar op- portunities for hunting moose in our own region as other stakeholders have and as have the residents of regions 3, 6, 7 and 8." Tabling Documents Hon. G. Plant: I rise to table the annual report of the British Columbia Treaty Commission for 2003.

8264 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, NOVEMBER 27, 2003 Orders of the Day Hon. G. Collins: I call second reading of Bill 89. Second Reading of Bills BRITISH COLUMBIA RAILWAY (REVITALIZATION) AMENDMENT ACT, 2003 (continued) Hon. G. Campbell: I am proud today to stand up in support of the British Columbia Railway (Revitaliza- tion) Amendment Act, 2003. I want to congratulate the minister and all of the people in the public service of British Columbia who have brought us to this excep- tional day.

There are times when those of us who have the opportunity to serve in public life and elected office get to make a decision that has enormous impact on the lives of the people that we serve. This bill today gives us an opportunity to open a whole new era of oppor- tunity and prosperity for the northern region of our province, for the interior of our province and indeed for the people of the province. I am particularly sad to note that all of the opposite members are not in the House today, because I have a few comments that I'd like to make about the com- ments of the new leader of the NDP.

The new leader of the NDP has shown us that nothing has changed in the NDP. She is carrying on the tradition that there is not a debt that the NDP doesn't like. There is a tradition that says that somehow profit is a bad thing, and we just heard this earlier today in the House. But let me tell you, with this government we want to encourage pri- vate sector investment. We want to turn our backs on debt and move forward with the new era of prosperity, hope, jobs and opportunity for all British Columbians.

Let me say to the member for Vancouver-Hastings and the member for Vancouver–Mount Pleasant that this is their chance. They have a vote in this House. They have a free vote. Their leader won't even be here to watch what they're doing. Don't listen to the leader of the NDP. She's against this piece of legislation. It's time for them to stand up and vote yes for paying down the debt. It's time for them to stand up and vote yes for economic development.

It's time for them to stand up and vote yes for new tourism opportunities, yes to open a new gateway to the northwest, yes to open a new continental gateway in Prince George, yes to hundreds and hundreds of new jobs for all British Columbians. [1440] The new leader of the NDP has decided she doesn't want to be in this House, where she in fact can have an impact on the future of our province. She says that she would like to travel British Columbia. Well, let me in- vite the new leader of the NDP to travel to Prince R u p e r t .

J u s t t a k e a m o m e n t to t r a v e l t o P r i n c e R u p e r t and talk to the people of Prince Rupert about their dreams and hopes for their community. Talk to them about their hopes for an expanded, scientifically sound aquaculture industry that will provide jobs and oppor- tunities in the northwest. Sh e is against those. Talk to them about their hopes for a new offshore oil and gas industry that is scientifically sound and that paves the way for private sector investment and for new jobs. The NDP leader is against that too.

Talk to them about the opportunity to create an exceptional port in the northwest that takes our in dustry and our resources a day and a half closer to the most important and ex- panding markets in the world, in Asia — to China, to India, to the entire Asia-Pacific basin. Talk to them about that. The NDP leader is opposed, but I'll tell you, in Prince Rupert they want to move forward. They want that port.

It may even be possible for the new leader of the NDP to talk to Dan Miller, the former NDP Pre- mier, who said it was time we got on with making these choices so that we could build the kind of eco- nomic future the north deserves. Let's just go through the opportunities and the benefits this decision makes. First, there will be contin- ued public ownership of the right-of-way, of the rail- bed and of the rails. We will maintain the British Co- lumbia Railway Co., and it will hold in perpetuity that asset which is so critical to the north and the interior of the province.

Just think of this — something that the members opposite may not understand. The fact of the matter is that with a billion dollars in proceeds upfront, we can pay down that $500 million debt which — make no mistake about it — is a burden on B.C.'s taxpayers. While we're at it, I know that, again, the members opposite have suggested that somehow or other the $860 million of write-downs that the taxpayers have been required to do over the last 15 years just don't count. Well, it does count. That $860 million counts in the constantly growing debt that we saw under the previous government.

That $860 million counts in terms of opportunities that have been taken away from British Columbia. I can tell you this: as we pay down that half a billion dollars of debt, it will mean we don't have to pay $30 million a year in interest. And that's good news for B.C.'s taxpayers. As is often the case, somehow or other the members opposite don't understand this. Most taxpayers would rather it was the private sector that was providing criti- cal private services. Now, just think of this. Over the term of this agreement, CN , in their new investment partnership agreement with us and B.C.

Rail, will be investing $40 million a year of private sector money in improving the track, the ro lling stock and the service for British Columbia's resource industries and shippers across this province. That's a critical thing. I can tell you this: when the private se ctor is willing to take on the risks, provide the resources, focus their effort on providing increased and improved services to all of us, w e s h o u l d s a y : " T h a n k y o u v e r y m u c h . We w a n t t h a t private sector investment in this province.

That's how we're getting jobs, and that's how we're building op- portunity." The CEO of B.C. Rail told the public the other day that under the constraints B.C. Rail has had to operate under in the past, it was not possible for them to ex-

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 27, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 8265 pand services. We heard from shippers last year and we heard from mayors and community leaders across the north that it was time for us to maintain our public commitment to hold the ownership of B.C. Rail's right- of-way, their track and the railbed, but that it was time for us to ask in a new investor to try and provide better services for British Columbians.

They recognized that as a critical component of their economic future, as a cornerstone to building the kind of hope and opportu- nity they deserve up an d down the rail track and throughout the north. I am proud today that because of the work of this Minister of Transportation and this government, we are able to deliver on that commitment and recom- mendation from the north. Our shippers said there were not enough railcars; they couldn't depend on the rail service.

As you know, what was happening was that instead of shipping th rough the rail, they were moving onto the roads. [1445] O u r g o a l i s t o m a k e s u r e t h a t t h e r a i l s y s t e m i s flourishing. We have a commitment for the building of 600 new centre-beam cars to increase the car availabil- ity. We have a commitment that there will be an up- grading of literally hundreds and hundreds of cars across those tracks. There will be faster tr ansit times from Prince George down to Vancouver. There will be much faster transit times from Prince George to the core of the con- tinental marketplace in Chicago.

Two days faster we will get our product from British Columbia to our cus- tomers. That makes our industries more competitive, and that means we have more opportunities for more investment here in B.C. and more jobs in British Co- lumbia. When the leader of the NDP travels around the province, I recommend that she take some time to talk to Peace River farmers, who are now going to watch as the Dawson-Hythe subdivision is reopened. Talk to the prairie farmers who are asking for faster access to Asian markets.

Talk to them about the benefit of being one and a half days closer to those marketplaces for their grains and products. Talk about what it means in Tumbler Ridge when someone says: "We are maintaining that rail line for the next five years for you to de cide how you can use it to benefit your industries and your people and create jobs in your community." Talk to Tumbler Ridge. Talk to Peace River. Talk to the Dawson Creek farmers. Talk to the people in Fort Nelson. I' ll tell you what they'll tell the NDP leader: "It's time we did this. It's time we moved forward.

Let's get on with building the future of this province." Let's make no mistake. We are protecting this rail network. When you really listen to what people have said to us throughout this province, they've said that this rail network is a critical piece of public sector in- frastructure, and we are main taining that under public ownership. Not only that, but the D'Arcy-Lillooet and the Takla shuttle services will be continued.

We will watch as, indeed, we have a partner that is trying to build this business, and in building this business up and down the track, we are in an effort to make sure we have jobs up and down the track. The day before yesterday a request for proposal was put out for the expansion of rail tour facilities throughout the province of British Columbia, and that will mean hundreds of jobs. Talk to the people in Squamish. Ask them how ex- cited they are about the new 71 acres that are available for the redevelopment of their downtown.

Ask them about what that will do to help them springboard off the advantages that the 2010 Winter Olympic Games provide. Ask them about the jobs that will be created, and then ask them if they support us moving forward with a new partnership, an investment partnership. They will say yes — yes, yes and yes again. I hope she'll take time to talk to the people of Prince George, because I know this. For years the people of Prince George have said it's time to move the head op- erations of B.C. Rail to Prince George. That's going to happen.

For years they've told us that Prince George is ready to take on its true role as a continental gateway for the northern part of our province. That's going to happen. We have said that as a result of this deal, there will be $4 million made available for the expansion of Prince George's airport runway. There will be an ex- pansion of customs facilities. There will be 75 new jobs in Prince George and 300 indirect jobs in the region. Those are jobs that will be based on a strong, new, ex- citing gateway to the continent that Prince George represents for all of us.

Ask them if they want that, and they will say: "Yes, it's time to move forward." Then as she goes through, ask any community in the north whether they will benefit from the opening up of the northwest gateway in Prince Rupert. Ask them if they'll benefit from an expansion of the con- tainerization facility and the $17.2 million the govern- ment has decided to invest. Ask them if they will bene- fit from CN's $15 million investment in track upgrades and improvements so that people can get closer to the marketplace faster.

Ask them if they think that's a strong and sensible transpor tation investment for the northern part of our province, and they will say yes. There is one group that will not say yes unless the two members opposite have the courage to stand up and do what's right for British Columbia. The NDP keeps saying no, but it is their chance to say yes. I in- vite them to join us as we move forward in building a stronger future for the nort h and the interior of this great province.

That's what it's time for them to do. [1450] There is no question, when you talk to people of the north, when you listen to the voices of the people of the north and the interior part of our province, they will tell us it's time for us to give them the opportunity to make their own choices, to direct their own invest- ments, to take the benefits of British Columbia's assets and use them for their communities' benefits and their regions' benefits. The new northern development ini- tiative is aimed directly at putting in the hands of

8266 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, NOVEMBER 27, 2003 northerners investments that will take advantage of northern and interior opportunities up and down the rail line and throughout this province. That's $135 million for investments in forestry, in pine beetle recovery, in transportation, in Olympic opportunities, in new tourism product development, in mining, in energy development — $135 million in the hands of northerners to do what's best for the north. In spite of the opposition poin ting out how little they had yesterday, they haven't even taken the time to read what's available to them.

The $135 million will be brok en down in the follow- ing way: $25 million will be created as an endowment. The northern development initiative head office will be in the city of Prince George . It is through that head office that northerners will be able to determine the tasks they would like to mo ve forward with. They will be able to look at economic development strategies that meet their needs, without interference from the gov- ernment in Victoria.

Equally important, $15 million will be made avail- able to each of four regions: the northwest, the Peace, the Prince George region and the Cariboo-Chilcotin- Lillooet region. Those communi ties will have advisory councils who will decide where, when, why and on what they want to invest those investment dollars. They can decide to invest all of it in a year and a half. They can take time to do it. But this is what's critical; this is what the NDP is opposed to. They was opposed to it when they were in government, and they remain opposed.

What's critical is th at we are giving people in the regions of this province the opportunity to make their own decisions about what's best for those regions. That's $25 million for an endowment for the northern development initiative, $15 million for each of four re- gions and $50 million to invest on cross-regional initia- tives that will meet the needs of the north and the inte- rior. It is time for us to recognize that by providing re- sources to those community leaders, to those regions, we will indeed benefit greatly as a province, because we believe the economy of the north is a part of our future.

It's a critical part of our future, and it's a critical part of long-term sustainable communities in this province. That's why I am so proud to be supporting this bill today. Each day that we stand in this House and work in t h i s H o u s e , w e h a v e a n o p p o r t u n i t y t o m a k e c h o i c e s . This bill paves the way for a new future for northern communities in British Columbia. It opens up new worlds of possibility for investment and growth and jobs.

It moves us forward with a $1 billion private sec- tor investment, with a new partnership that will see literally billions pumped into our economy over the next 60 to 90 years — billions of dollars to help create jobs and create opportunity. It delivers on a fundamen- tal election commitment of this government to create a whole new era of hope and prosperity for the next dec- ade and beyond. This piece of legislation guarantees that we will not sell B.C. Rail. It guarantees that B.C. Rail's right-of-way and tracks will be kept in public ownership. It guaran- tees that the railbed will be there for the public.

B.C. Rail Company is a Crown corporation, and it is an asset that will remain in public hands. [1455] I know the members opposite will never let that central fact get in the way of their opportunity to vote for this investment. They can't bear to accept that we're only doing what we said we'd do. This is a smart deal. This is a good agreement. Th is is a vital agreement for the future of this province. We can pay off $500 million of debt, we can save $30 million a year in interest, and we will still have enough for another $500 million of investment in op- portunities and jobs throughout this province.

We can cut the cost of interline shipping by up to 7 percent. We can cut travel times to North Vancouver. We can cut travel times to the heart of the continent. We can create an operating partner who will help us reduce shipping times to the east by two days, as I mentioned earlier. We can provide first nations with true benefits from this, as we establish a $15 million trust to benefit the first nations up and down the B.C. Rail line. There will be a ne w $1 million wheel shop in Prince George. There will be the new western district head office in Prince George.

Again, just as a quick aside, yesterday a member of the opposition said that sh e didn't think this wheel shop was such a big deal. Well, let me just tell you that what we're actually doing is creating in Prince George a wheel shop which will be state of the art. In Squam- ish right now — it's true — they are doing about 3,000 wheels a year. In the operatio n in Prince George they will do on the order of 40,000 wheels a year. We will be doing something even more important that we told British Columbians we would do. We're going to bring jobs back home to this province.

We're bringing jobs from Washington State, and we're bring- ing jobs from Winnipeg. We're bringing them to Prince George, where they should have been all along and where they're going to be in the future. As we look at the excess lands up and down the rail line, we see opportunities for communities up and down British Columbia. But equally important, over the next 60 years communities can know that they can count on getting the full va lue of their property tax paid on a regular basis — not grants-in-lieu but full property tax. What does this mean to local communities? Let me just give you some examples.

In the district of North Vancouver they currently get $156,000 as a grant in lieu of tax. Following the completion of this partnership agreement, they will get $716,000 a year — almost half a million dollars more a year. In the city of North Van- couver a $5,500 grant-in-lieu will be expanded to $256,000 as property tax that will go to those people. In the Peace River regional district, the mighty Peace, they currently get $59,000 in grants-in-lieu. Fol- lowing the completion of this B.C. Rail partnership investment agreement, they will get $1.3 million a year in property taxes.

In 100 M ile House they'll watch as their property tax goes up by five times. In Quesnel they'll watch as their property tax goes up by three

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 27, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 8267 times. That means resources for critical community services that people need in those resource communi- ties up and down the rail line, and that's what this agreement does for those communities. As we decide as a Legislature whether or not to sup- port this bill, let me say this. This is a time for everyone to look to the future, to imagine for a moment what can happen in British Columbia.

Instead of listening to the naysayers who will tell you what can't happen and how difficult it is to dream and how we should just keep on looking back, wouldn't it be great to start look- ing ahead — to start looking to the north of our prov- ince and seeing in our vision of the north a great northwestern port in Prince Rupert and a great city in Prince George that's a gateway to the continent that provides service and opportunities to people through- out our North American marketplace? Wouldn't it be great to look to the Peace and see Peace River farmers saying that our grain is getting to our customers quickly?

Wouldn't it be great to go to Terrace and hear them talk with excitement about what's happening in the mi ning industry and the en- ergy industry? Wouldn't it be great to go to 100 Mile House and to Williams Lake and hear them talk about the new exciting tourism potential and tourism prod- uct they have? Wouldn't it be great for British Colum- bians to dream again and to know that they can reach those dreams because we've given them the tools to do just that? Wouldn't that be great, Mr.

Speaker? [1500] We all inherited a great province from those who came before, but we should never underestimate the fact that every major decision — every important decision that was made — comes with those who are optimists, who are looking to the future with excitement, and over- comes those who are pessimists, who are constantly telling us what's wrong. Well, I'll tell you this, Mr. Speaker: there is nothing wrong with British Columbia. British Columbia is the place to live. British Columbia is the place to work. British Columbia is the place to build a future for everybody that lives here.

British Columbi- ans are ready to move forward. They are excited by the potential of this province, and by passing this legislation today, we take our place in allowing British Columbians to build the future they want. Some will always say no. Some will always be op- posed. They'll be opposed to investment. They'll be opposed to jobs. They'll be opposed and frightened of the future. I hope this government shows that we are excited by the future. We are excited by the potential of British Columbia. We're excited by the north.

And let me tell you this: this is a go vernment that will listen to the voices of the north and that will listen to the call of the people of the interior. It's a call to the future. It's a call to build the kind of society people want, where there are jobs and opportunities and hope. It's a call that this government will heed when we vote yes, and that's what I intend to do. Hon. S. Bond: Well, the first thing I want to say is — and you will not be surprised by this — that I am excited about the future of th e north.

With all sincerity, I want you to know that as a resident of the northern part of the province of British Columbia…. I look across to the other benches, to my colleagues who live where I live, and I look at the smiles and the excite- ment, because for the first time in a very long time in this Legislature we have heard the words "the north." We have heard "Prince George" and "Prince Rupert" — all of those communities up and down the line. We care about the north. I'm proud to work for and with a Premier who understands the north. [H.

Long in the chair.] I want to begin my comments today by speaking just a little bit about the process that's evolved as we've looked at a most difficult and challenging decision for this government to have made. It required bold leader- ship, it required a sense of vision, and most impor- tantly, it required listening to hear the voices of the people of the north.

I have lived in the north my entire life, and I believe this is the best thing that has hap- pened for the northern part of this province in a very long time. [1505] It's a pleasure to work with the Premier, who said to us: "I want you to go home and listen to the concerns of the people you serve." He believes that serving is what our job is all about. He said: "Go home and make a list. I want you to bring back the concerns. I want you to bring back the hopes.

I want you to bring back the dreams of the people that are telling you what they want for the part of the world they live in." I want you to know this: he listened, he paid atten- tion, and he acted. He provided the leadership that was necessary to move this province and, from my perspec- tive, more importantly, to move the northern part of this province forward. I am so proud of the bill that the Minister of Trans- portation has brought to the floor of this House today, and I am proud to stand in support of it.

You see, at home today, despite what you are hearing on the op- posite side of this House, I heard the words "hope," "excitement," "opportunity," "potential." The commu- nity is buzzing. Do you know how long it's been since we have felt like that in Prince George? I want you to know something. We recognized something in this process very early on. There was something we all agreed on, those of us who live in the northern part of this province. We need a railway. We know it's important, but we needed a railway that was efficient. We needed it to be competitive.

We needed it, most importantly, to be sustainable for our children and their children. We wanted it to provide good jobs, but we also wanted it to be the economic driver for the northern part of this province. We all agreed on that, and I can assure you that even the members opposite would agree. What we didn't agree on was who should actually be responsible for ensuring that economic driver remained viable and had the opportunity to grow.

8268 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, NOVEMBER 27, 2003 We knew one thing: we needed to protect the asset, and that's exactly what we did. You see, we're going to make sure, through this legislation, that we guarantee that the right-of-way, the railbed and the track are le- gally enshrined under public ownership. That's pro- tecting the asset. I'm absolutely amazed at people's inability to un- derstand the word "lease." You see, we're protecting the asset, but we're creating a new operating model. That's simply what we're doing.

We're finding a part- ner who is going to operate this railway to the benefit not just of those people where I live but of the entire province. That is responsible, it is effective, and it is going to generate results for years and decades to come. To u nderstand where we are, we mu st look at the past. While we may want to deny some of the facts, which has certainly been commonplace over the last c o u p l e o f d a y s , w e h a v e t o l o o k a t w h y a n d h o w w e got ourselves to this position today. First of all, north- ern leaders came to us and said: "The status quo is un- acceptable.

We must look at a new way of doing busi- ness." We also needed to find new ways to reinvest in this railway, and, simply put, we don't have the re- sources to do that. Let me remind you and this House of a number: $857 million. Now, one might want to trivialize or minimize that number or even try to suggest that it isn't actually debt. Think about it. That's how much British Columbia's taxpayers have paid to write down the debts of B.C. Rail over the past 15 years. Just think about what $857 million can do. Certainly, we have to look at another number: $502 million. That is the current amount of B.C. Rail's debt.

Those numbers just begin to give you a sense of the picture about why we needed to deal with the B.C. Rail situation. [1510] More than a year ago, northern mayors gathered, and they came and spoke to us and said: "We think you should consider a public-p rivate partnership for the operation of this railway." Under the Premier's leader- ship, this government worked with those mayors and with other key stakeholders to create a request for pro- posals. That RFP laid out clear ground rules for finding a partner. The guidelines were clear.

We needed to look at the issues of sustainability, competitiveness, growth opportunities and significant community bene- fits. We all knew what the problem was. We knew that B.C. Rail needed to grow. It required expansion of its capital assets, and we needed to find a partner to en- sure that that would take place. The shippers knew it, the municipal leaders understood it, and the company acknowledged it. Northerners demanded a new ap- proach.

They deserve a new approach, one that recog- nizes the contributions of the north, and with this legis- lation and with the partners hip agreement, that's ex- actly what we've got. Let's look at one other number: $1 billion. Our partnership with CN Rail will generate $1 billion, upfront, of investment in British Columbia. One of my primary concerns, and certainly my col- league from Prince George North shared this con- cern…. We are concerned for the men and the women who operate and run the railway.

I can honestly say that one of the most challeng ing things during the past number of months — in fact, probably a year as we've explored this possibility and looked for a dynamic partnership — was our concern for those employees and for their families. You see, we do care about jobs. It's important to look for new jobs and increased jobs, but we care about the jobs we have in our community, the existing employees and their families. It matters to us, despite what you might hear and the rhetoric and nonsense that you hear.

There were numbers in our community that were being discussed and people who contributed to that with uncertainty and fearmonger- ing — numbers as high as, for our community, 350 and across the province, thousands. Those numbers were unacceptable to me and to my colleague and certainly to the members of this House. What did we do about that? Did we sit back and do nothing? Absolutely not. We were at the table. We were here in Victoria bringing those concerns. We were sharing the concerns that we have for the workers in our community. We wanted to make sure that they were treated fairly and respectfully.

Think about the end result. Throughout the entire B.C. Rail network, there will be 180 involuntary job reductions over the next th ree years. Although restruc- turing is never easy, we will see a reduction of 25 posi- tions from our communities over the next three years. I know that our partner, CN…. Certainly, we heard it clearly articulated just two days ago that there would be concern, and we will work hard.

In fact, and I quote — paraphrase, perhaps, is safest — CN committed that: "We will bend over backwards to be sensitive to the needs of people." B.C.'s own executive said that status quo job loss, more job loss, would have been inevitable. So we've worked hard. We've worked hard as MLAs. We've worked hard as a government. The team that worked hard on our behalf, who have done an outstanding job, concentrated on their priorities as well — jobs for the province and jobs, protection, for those people who live in our communities an d those communities which B.C. Rail serves up and down the province.

This partnership will be a major source of economic development for the entire province. But in my com- munity — the community of Prince George, the city of Prince George — the benefits are enormous. I am actu- ally shocked by the commen ts of people who have suggested…. Let me give you one quote: "The northern MLAs' communities are getting the shaft on this deal." [1515] Let me just read you one or two or three or four or five or six of the benefits that the people of Prince George will enjoy.

Prince George will be the location of CN's new B.C. northern division office, finally bringing a regional rail office to Prince George. Let me tell you a little bit about that division office. Prince George has been chosen as the office. It will be the home to trans-

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 27, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 8269 portation, customer service, engineering, mechanical and general management employees. That is a signifi- cant and sustainable commitment to the city of Prince George and to the province of British Columbia. We will also be the site of the new million-dollar, state-of-the-art wheel shop that the Premier so accu- rately described. Think about that. We've been chosen as the site for the wheel shop. As a result of that new investment, CN will perform all of its western Cana- dian work in Prince George, which is now performed in Winnipeg.

As well, some of the jobs that are created will be attracted from work that is currently being out- sourced to U.S. suppliers. That is a long-term and sus- tainable commitment to Prince George and British Co- lumbia. The people of Prince George also wanted to expand their airport. They want to look at terminal and run- way improvements. They want to look at cargo oppor- tunities. They needed a cust oms office to be able to expand. To make that happen, $4 million will go to the Prince George Airport Authorit y. That results in direct and indirect jobs that can only benefit our community.

One of the most exciting components of the oppor- tunities that are before us relates to tourism opportuni- ties and passenger rail services. Imagine. People are actually competing now to have the right to run tour- ism and passenger opportunities on the railway. Think about what that means. It means the opportunity for more jobs, opportunities in the hospitality and tourism industry. It means the possibility of circuit tours. It means endless opportunities. And that's just the begin- ning. New tax revenues for our municipality will help fund our local services, and that is important to us.

The new Chicago express — and it is a new Chi- cago express — will transport freight to one of our largest markets quicker and more efficiently — in fact, in 90 hours. This is also good news as we look at being competi- tive and we enter the global market. But think about it. We're not just talking about railways. We're not just talking about airports. We'r e talking about ports as well. Prince George will be the gateway to the north. Think about the possibilities.

I can't imagine people not wanting to be supportive of a bill and an opportunity that is all about benefit for the northern part of the province, for the middle part of the province — in fact, for the entire province of British Columbia. Perhaps one of the things that has been most mean- ingful for me as we've explored how we move forward with this proposal was a di scussion with the Premier that led to the creation of more opportunity for north- erners.

One of the things people say in Prince George and other places in the north — in McBride and Valemount and the communities I represent — is: "Do they actually listen to us in Victoria? Does anyone ac- tually pay attention to us?

You know, sometimes if government would just get out of the way and let us make some of those decisions ourselves, that would be a very good thing." I can't begin to tell you how pleased I am that $135 million is being returned to northerners to support ec onomic development and investment in things like forestry and pine beetle re- covery, transportation, tour ism, mining, Olympic op- portunities and small businesses. [1520] The best news about this is that this fund is not going to be administered in Victoria.

In fact, it is going to be administered by nort herners with regional advi- sory committees for each of the four regions of the north. We will decide what the priorities are, and we will provide that input. Think about that. How can we not be supportive of an opportunity that allows people to be directly involved in the decisions that will assist us in rebuilding our economy? Decisions being made in the north, for the north, by the people of the north — that just makes great sense. I thank both the Premier and the minister for returnin g this investment and this opportunity to those of us who live in the north.

For the past few months I've heard all of the critics and all of the detractors, es pecially those across from us in this chamber, talk about how somehow the status quo was good enough. I gue ss that's perhaps one gov- ernment's idea — that the solution is just to do nothing. You know, there have been countless opportunities over the last ten years in the previous government's mandate to help the north. They didn't decide to build a stronger B.C. Rail, and they did little for economic growth in British Columbia. As a matter of fact, we went to the status of being a have-not province.

Now their new leader is certainly a supporter of the 1990s edition of that government. I guess she's pre- pared to stand up and say to the people of Prince George: "No, I don't want a million-dollar wheel shop. No, I don't want a divisional headquarters in Prince George. No, I don't want more parkland. No, I don't want to preserve jobs. No, I don't want to look at future economic development in this part of the province." Well, that's simply not good enough. It's time, as the Premier suggested, that we respond to the call of the north, and that's exactly what we in- tend to do.

People in my community would be as- tounded and horrified if we turned our backs on re- newed investment in the rail line, eliminating public debt, 600 new cars and an expansion of service, lower rates, improved access to markets and, most impor- tantly, long-term protection of the rail network. During the decade the NDP was in power, commu- nity leaders in Prince George repeatedly asked that g o v e r n m e n t t o p u t B . C . R a i l ' s h e a d o f f i c e i n o u r c i t y . They did nothing. CN Rail is going to make Prince George the home of its new B.C. north division office.

As I said, it will be home to transportation, customer service, engineering, mechanical and general manage- ment opportunities. This is long overdue. You can't simply not make investment and assume the entity will thrive. Du ring the 1990s there was no investment. There was no necessary investment in en- suring the sustainability of B.C. Rail. CN Rail is going to purchase 600 new centre-beam cars and upgrade 1,500 more. That is how you help build and grow a rail network. CN is issuing, in partnership, a request for proposals for passenger tourist train service. Two com-

8270 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, NOVEMBER 27, 2003 panies have already expressed great interest in operat- ing the service. That is how you generate new tourism opportunities. This partnership is g ood news for my community. In fact, I was pleased to hear the member for Prince George–Omineca recognize the opportunities that ex- ist.

He said recently in an interview: "The fact that there will be a wheel repair shop and headquarters in Prince George generating millions of dollars by way of mu- nicipal taxes — that is a very good thing for Prince George and beyond." So often we believe that decisions are made in the south, and they don't reflect northern realities. Now, with the $135 million northern development initiative, we will be able to decide how our money is spent. We're going to choose the projects that work for north- erners. We're going to work with first nations, and we're going to exert more control over our own des- tiny.

There have been so many words exchanged and rumours exchanged over the past number of months, but times have changed, and the way we operate has changed. The bottom line is that B.C. Rail needs an investment and an infusion of capital. [1525] Canfor's CEO, David Emerson, a respected busi- nessman, puts the case succinctly: "The fact is they have not had that scale and size and sort of general level of efficiency and staying power for the long haul. We have to plan to do business with a railway that's going to be around in ten years or 15 years, and we don't have that confidence today with B.C. Rail.

It's not because we don't like B.C. Rail or we don't like their people. It's because, by their own admission, they're not a viable railway today." Mr. Emerson is not the only shipper who saw the need for improvements to rail infrastructure. A group of large forest product companies in B.C. has also ex- pressed the need for changes that allow for a competi- tive, efficient and service-oriented railway. This deal provides the shippers with a competitive advantage. Forestry is what drives our economy, and they now have quicker access to their markets.

As well, they will receive an average rate reduction of 7 percent for inter- line rail shipments. This is good news for companies who need an efficient and effective rail system. I think our mayor, Colin Kinsley, said it best. As we go through this, you'll see what has happened with the rate reduction for the shippers. I mean, that's good for us. The acquisition of 600 I-be am cars so that it will satisfy the shippers' needs to get back on the rail — that's good news. CN upgrading the tunnels between here and Prince Rupert to allow for double-decking or piggybacking for containerization.

The province an- nouncing $17.5 million for the port of Prince Rupert — more good news. I was born and raised in Prince George. I know the passion of the people and th e entrepreneurial spirit of the northern communities. I know and believe that a railway is important. I know how difficult this decision has been, and the results have been a challenge for the people where I live. I've spen t a lot of time listening to those people who were concerned that we were simply going to give it away, sell it away, give it up. We're simply not prepared to do that. The north needs leadership, and it needs a plan.

It needs bold and courageous ways to revitalize our economy so that our children and our grandchildren have a future not just in the province but in Prince George where we choose to make our homes. This agreement says that northe rners deserve to be full partners in the success of British Columbia. Today we begin moving forward to our goal of creating economic growth and sustainable communities. We believe in the north, and we now have the tools to construct a stronger economy.

A s w e m o v e f o r w a r d , a s w e f a c e t h e d a y s a h e a d , we know there is much work yet to be done in Prince George and in the north. But I believe that through this bill, through this deal, thro ugh this partnership, we've given the north the tools, the opportunity and the hope that it absolutely deserves. D. Hayer: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for the oppor- tunity to speak to Bill 89, to revitalize B.C. Rail. During the past two years or so that I have been in this House, I have travelled all across the central interior, through- out the Cariboo and up north as far as Dawson Creek.

Everyone I spoke to up there told me their concerns about B.C. Rail, because that transportation system is the economic lifeline for the forest industry in all those communities that I visited. What I find so encouraging about this bill that we are speaking about today and about this new partner- ship between B.C. Rail and CN Rail is that it has the support of the mayors and the councils in the central interior and in the north. Prince George's mayor, Colin Kinsley, says that this partnership is exciting.

All the things we asked, the government was able to negotiate, and the MLAs worked hard to negotiate that on behalf of them. The Prince Rupert mayor, Herb Pond, called the announcement of this agreement an exciting day f o r t h e p e o p l e o f P r i n c e R u p e r t a n d a n y o n e e l s e w h o lives along the transportation corridor. Fort St.

John mayor, Steve Thorlakson, says: "I really believe this is progress." Those comments give me the strength and convic- tion that this agreement is a good deal for all of British Columbia, and it gives me confidence in responding to the constituents who say they are not happy with this decision because they believe we are selling off assets to balance our budget. This simply is not true. The revenues government gains fr om this partnership will go to transportation improv ements, to paying off B.C. Rail's enormous debt, to revitalizing the northern economy. [1530] B.C. Rail was not consistently a moneymaker.

It was not earning enough to improve its services or to buy the necessary rolling stock. Its income was not sufficient to keep it going over the long term. However, this partnership will ensure that what is now B.C. Rail

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 27, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 8271 continues as a viable, succe ssful and efficient transpor- tation system. In fact, without this partnership with CN Rail, which Premier Campbell has so vigorously pur- sued, the future of B.C. Rail was in great doubt. That means that the economy of the north, already so bat- tered by the softwood lumber dispute and pine beetle epidemic, would be in jeopardy. While B.C. Rail has been making a modest profit sometimes over the past couple of years, half of the profit was going to interest payments on its enormous half-billion-dollar debt. B.C.

Rail, without this partnership, is unsustainable over the long term. It is not making enough money to replace aging rolling stock. It is not making enough money to ensure its future. The B.C. government, over the past 15 years, has written off almost $900 million of debt of B.C. Rail. That is taxpayers' money. This partnership not only ensures B.C. Rail will become more efficient and effec- tive, but it also eliminates a huge taxpayers' debt.

It strengthens the economy of the north and the interior, and it will translate into tremendous economic spinoff that will create jobs, ensure security for families and ensure British Columbia's products will continue to flow to foreign customers. As I mentioned, I have visited most of the areas along the B.C. Rail corridor. I have been to Prince Rupert, which will benefit greatly from this agreement through the development and expansion of its con- tainer port. I have been to Terrace, Kitimat, Smithers, Houston and Prince George.

All of these communities will see their economies grow, their prosperity increase and their residents enjoy long-term security because of this agreement and this bill we have been debating today. I have also toured the Houston sawmill, which is the most modern lumber mill in the world. I under- stand they also have plans to construct the largest and most efficient mill in the world in Houston.

This bill will ensure that those sawmills will continue to create jobs and employ people in good-paying jobs, because now they will be able to — and they are assured they will be able to — get their products to the markets quickly. In fact, I'm told th at by utilizing CN's network of tracks and system, B.C. lumber will now be able to get to the markets such as Chicago two days sooner. That speed and efficiency translate into saved costs, greater profits, more money in the pockets of those who work and live in the northern communities.

I travelled through the Cariboo, visiting Williams Lake, Quesnel and 100 Mile House. These communities are forest-dependent, and th e forest industry is de- pendent on effective rail service. This agreement will ensure that the residents of those communities will have jobs and a future and their families will have a comfortable lifestyle. There has been some talk of job loss within B.C. Rail, but my understanding is that the net impact of this will be minimal, if at all, because there will be other jobs created, other in dustries moving in those towns.

Premier Campbell has assured us that all of that $135 million resulting from th is agreement will be di- rected to the northern communities to invest there to create more opportunities. CN will be building a state-of-the-art wheel plant in Prince George. It will esta blish a divisional headquar- ters in the northern city, and it will bring locomotive and freight car repair work to the city. This means jobs, and it means prosperity for all those towns. As well, as part of this agreement, the government will be provid- ing Prince George with $4 million to support airport improvements.

Another $17.2 million will be going into Prince Rupert for its contai ner terminal, and the reve- nue the communities current ly receive in property taxes from B.C. Rail will see the source go up more than four and a half times. [1535] Prince Rupert is 440 mile s closer to the Asian mar- kets than any other port in North America. That makes the travel time to Asia two days less than currently available from anywhere in North America, and that means more ships, more money going into our north- ern coastal communities and communities all along the B.C. Rail line. The list of benefits goes on and on.

That is why I am encouraged by the support this agreement has from interior mayors and councils and by the prosperity that this agreement ensures for the residents of the north. This partnership is good for the heartlands, and it is good for British Columbia. That's why I wholeheart- edly support this bill. K. Krueger: I also am delighted to rise and support this bill today in the Legislature. What is a railway, Mr. Speaker? I saw that Michael Smyth wrote a bit of a humorous column the other day and referred to Gordon Lightfoot's Canadian Railroad Trilogy.

It's a trilogy, a group of songs that are some of my wife's favourite music. It starts out: "There was a time in this fair land when the railway did not run, when the wild majestic mountains stood alone against the sun." The railroad has always been part of Canadians' understanding of the character of Canada. Our trans- continental railways were symbols of the opening up of a new land — as Gordon Lightfoot said: "Bringing goods to a young, growing land." But when Canadians think about that, when they think about railroads, I suggest that they think abou t the right-of-way, the rail- bed and the tracks.

Everything else is pretty much un- der attack by Mother Nature all the time. Whether it's the rolling stock, the offices, the buildings, the cars or the locomotives, it's subject to rust, rot, and wear and tear. But the railway is the tr ack; the railway is the rail- bed; the railway is the real estate. When I see people setting their hair on fire about privatizing B.C. Rail, I suggest that's absolute non- s e n s e . E v e r y t h i n g t h a t w a s a p a r t o f t h i s d e a l i s r e - placeable.

I'm thrilled that a private sector operator that knows how to run a railroad and has a tremen- dous reputation around this continent is going to as- s u m e t h a t r e s p o n s i b i l i t y a n d , i n t h e p r o c e s s , o p e n a

8272 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, NOVEMBER 27, 2003 whole new world of opportunities for northern British Columbians. We had an old steam locomotive sitting in River- side Park in Kamloops for decades. I used to climb on it when I was a kid, when we visited there. It was out of commission. It was one of those pieces of rolling stock that had reached the end of its useful life, so it was set there as a souvenir of the way things used to be in the steam days. A lot of railroaders felt pretty badly about how it was corroding and were worried about children getting hurt on it. Eventually it was fenced off.

After a time, a group of them formed, and they took that locomotive out of the park. They put it in a big shed and worked for thousands of hours restoring it, and now it runs like a living piece of history, like a user-friendly museum on a track around the Kamloops area. Well, we aren't interested in looking backwards with regard to BCR. We are looking forward. This is not the privatization of a ra ilway but the entering into a new partnership, a new and exciting partnership that will be wonderful for all British Columbians but espe- cially for northerners.

It's a great deal when you can have your services provided by someone with the ex- pertise of a CNR and you can have all of the benefits that my colleagues have been talking about in this House — including, fantastically, the paying off of $500 million in debt. What a phenomenal thing that is. Debt is something that most Canadians historically have been pretty leery of. We don't like having to pay interest; we don't like that debt looming over us and binding our hands as to what we can do in the future.

I t ' s a n i s s u e t h a t t h e p a s t g o v e r n m e n t w a s n ' t p a r t i c u - larly worried about, and we saw that with their ap- proaches to business, with $300 million dumped into Skeena Cellulose, with nearly half a billion dollars dumped into the fast ferries — all sorts of failed efforts to be in competition with the private sector, in business as government. [1540] This government has said very clearly, before we were elected and since, that we don't really believe that government should be in the business of doing busi- n e s s .

W e b e l i e v e i n s t e e r i n g ; w e d o n ' t b e l i e v e i n r o w - ing. We believe that the private sector does a better job of that. So everything that we have sold in this transac- tion is something that is corruptible by nature, some- thing that will have to be replaced.

We have a private sector partner with deep enough pockets to take on that responsibility and fully intend to make money at it, which I'm sure they will, with no risk to British Co- lumbians of any further debt accumulating, with no responsibility to pay $30 million a year in interest any longer and with all of thes e tremendous investments in the north country. What a fantastic thing that is. If you lease your car, Mr. Speaker, do you privatize your driveway? Of course no t. What a silly question. Some of the things we're hearing from our critics are just as silly as that.

If all of this angst is just political stuff, of course, we can laugh that off. We can deal with it. The NDP can set their hair on fire all they like. They've got their track record. They took a debt of $16.5 billion accumulated over 125 years of B.C. gov- ernment and transformed it into a debt of $34 billion in ten years, where we're left paying almost $3 billion a year in interest, even though interest rates are the low- est we've ever seen them in our lifetimes. They don't have too much in the way of credentials to speak from, but it never seems to give them pause from speaking anyway.

They demonstrated throughout their term in office that they know absolutely nothing about running busi- nesses and that they didn't learn anything in those sad ten years they were in power. They also don't under- stand debt or the fact that it's always the same taxpayer who has to shoulder that debt — the same taxpayer we're talking about. I've listened in amazement to their response to second reading in this House and how they just do not believe it. I think they honestly do not be- lieve that B.C.

Rail's debt was public debt, never mind the fact that they absorbed $840 million into the tax- payers' general debt as a result of the accumulated losses of BCR. We still have a $500 million debt to pay off with this transaction. The NDP has always ap- peared to believe that if they can somehow assign the debt to some other public entity, they don't have to consider it public debt. The day of us pouring billions of dollars into defi- cits created by government's failed attempts to run businesses — w h e t h e r i t ' s B . C . Ferries, B.C. Rail, Skeena Cellulose or anything else — are happily over.

We don't want taxpayers to have to continue to absorb carrying charges, and now they won't — at least with regard to this venture. My legislative assistant just sent a copy of an e-mail to me in the House, and it says: "I just had a charming and ecstatic phone call from one of your constituents, who unfortunately refused to give me her name but wanted me to tell you how thrilled she was about the B.C. Rail de al.

She thinks it is a tremendous 'psychological benefit' and holds true to Bennett's vision of 'keeping the north open.' She is grateful for everyone's hard work but wanted to call you especially, as you are her MLA. She also sends you a kiss." I liked that part. Apparently it was an elderly lady. I don't think it was my mom, because she wouldn't have said I'm her MLA. She lives in Salmon Arm. That's how people feel. I'm not getting any negative calls in my constituency office. People see very clearly what the government is doing in embracing this won- derful opportunity. I'm old enough to remember W.A.C.

Bennett really well, and I really respect him and his legacy. He had my parents' tremendous loyalty. They were Social Credit people. They didn't like being called Socreds; they were Social Credit people. They really respected W.A.C. Bennett. I met him a number of times at conventions and so on, and I treasure his legacy and the things he left to British Columbians — the vision he had and the cour- age he had to march forward with that vision. I hate it when people call him Wacky Bennett, which of course

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 27, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 8273 is a play on his initials, but it's wrong to use that adjec- tive in relation to such a great man who did so much for British Columbia. My colleagues have talked about his vision and his ability to deliver, whether he was building dams or allowing Phil Gaglardi to build highways or building the railway. Things he created for us have served us well up until now, and it's time for renewal of them. That's what this government, to my considerable pride, is doing. [1545] I remember when the railway, the BCR, came through our farm.

I grew up on a homestead north of Fort St. John. My dad was a war veteran. He got a war veteran's opportunity to homestead land. We had 1,600 acres. I spent my boyhood helping him knock down trees and pick roots and break land and carry rocks around and turn it into a farm. I remember our joy when the BCR came through that land, because we felt like we were a long way from anywhere, and we were. We were 18 miles — well, actually, more than that — into the bush from mile 73 of the Alaska Highway.

It was Peace River gumbo road, and when it rained, which it did a lot, it was like i t t u r n e d i n t o g r e a s e , a n d i t w a s h a r d t o h a u l y o u r products out to market. I remember one time my dad was heading out with a loaded grain truck. It was very valuable to us. Some- times you didn't get your crop in that country because it rained right to winter, when it turned to snow. He had a big truckload of grain. It had started raining, so he tarped it up and carried on.

The road was too greasy, and the truck ended up tumbling onto its side in the ditch and spilling all the grain — a real catastro- phe, because we couldn't afford insurance. When the railway came through, we knew there would be a lot better way to get the products to market for us, for our neighbours and for people all up the line. The people of British Columbia are tremendously fond of the BCR, and I am very happy to see that it has a bright, new future. I was a teenager after the railway was completed through our farm and it was in use.

I was grouse hunt- ing one day and walking along with my .22 rifle when a Budd car came through with W.A.C. Bennett stand- ing on the back. In those days a Premier didn't have to worry if he saw a kid with a rifle right by the railway track. He was going by, and he waved to me, and I waved to him. I feel this tremendous fondness for him, and I often think of that picture of him waving at me as the Budd car disappeared down the track. I know full well how the people feel about the railway up there and how they feel about living in the north.

We've heard the member for Peace River North, now the Minister of Energy and Mines, say for years in this House how the people of the heartlands…. We didn't call it that then, but it's a very good word for it that we use now, because they are the heartlands where the lifeblood of this province's economy comes from. That member would say how the people from the heartlands always saw their resources, resources they worked to put into the economy, disappearing down to Victoria and Vancouver, down to the big city, and you had to go cap in hand begging for anything to come back to your constituents.

We've all been thoroughly tired, all our lives, of seeing that happen up there. I remember one day when my mother met Phil Gaglardi when he was Highways minister and our roads were the gumbo I've described. He went to shake her hand. She shook his hand, but she wouldn't let go, which would be sort of a startling thing when you think about it. She just wouldn't let go and kept shaking his hand. He was getting a little wild-eyed, and she said: "I'm going to keep shaking your hand until you promise that you'll gravel our roads." He did promise in the end, and the next week the gravel trucks were out.

It didn't last in that country, because the base is Peace River gumbo, so they take constant work. This government has already poured a tremendous amount of money into the highway infrastructure and has done a really good job of improving the all-weather quality of the road so that the wealth of that area can continue to be brought out to the benefit of all British Columbi- ans. I worked for CNR when I was a newlywed, still a teenager. We used to chuckle at the BCR then, because the locomotives didn't have the pulling power of the CN locomotives.

People would say that three of our locomotives would take a loaded train over to the switch yards, and it would take half a dozen BCR lo- comotives to snortingly haul them away. I never knew if that was an exaggeration or not. I do know that the railway has struggled to keep up with the times. I un- derstand things have gone better in recent years. Back then I had a friend who was a manager for B.C. Rail. He received very rough treatment. His name was Les Wilson. There's a judgment on the books be- cause he had to sue for the way he was treated as a manager.

It struck me then, as it often has since, that managers in businesses owned by government just do not have the same accountability as managers in the private sector, because a lot of them don't really worry about the bottom line. They do their jobs, they draw large salaries, and they just aren't accountable to their shareholders the way private sector people are ac- countable to theirs. You see them do things that are just clearly wrong, and they do them anyway because they don't tend to suffer the consequences.

I think we will all be so much better off with this arrangement. [1550] I heard my colleague from Prince George–Mount Robson talk about how some people just do not seem to understand what a lease is. In Kamloops and region we have tremendously successful first nations people. They're very progressive. Th ey think long term, and they're very smart. The Ka mloops Indian band has a development of 2,000 homesites on their property along the flanks of Mount Paul, and together with a gentleman named Georg Schu rian, they're developing the Sun Rivers project.

The people who are building there, and they're building all the time, have 100-year leases paid in ad-

8274 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, NOVEMBER 27, 2003 vance. When I was talking to Chief Bonnie Leonard some months ago about the advantages of a lease such as this one has turned out to be, she said: "I don't know what all the excitement is ag ainst leases. They work so well for us. Look at all the infrastructure we've built because we enter into lease arrangements. The land never goes away; the land will always be ours. It works well for the people who are leasing from us, and it works very well for us." They are considered one of the leading aboriginal bands, fi rst nations people, in this province.

They've done tr emendously well for them- selves. I want to congratulate the government, the Premier and the Minister of Transpor tation. She really worked on this deal, and we saw that. She had her nose to the grindstone, her ear to the gr ound and her shoulder to the wheel, but she only had eyes for the prize. She never gave up, and she brought the deal home.

We were proud to attend the press conference the other day and to see the excitement i n t h e r o o m a n d , s i n c e then, to hear the excitement of our constituents and people from all over British Columbia, because some- thing is finally happening here in British Columbia.

We knew it in our hearts that the approaches would work — that if you cut people's taxes to the lowest in- come tax in Canada for the first $60,000 of income, if you cleared away unnecessary regulation, if you broke the barriers to success that had been built in and be- come hardened all around our economy in British Co- lumbia, you could start to undo some of the damage. I've lived in Smithers and been to Prince Rupert many times. When I lived there in the late seventies and early eighties, it was a bustling area.

There was lots going on, and it's broken my heart to see people go through what they've gone through in the northwest with the demise of Skeena Cellulose and all the things that have dominoed since then. The member from the coas t, from Prince Rupert, brought us — I was going to bring them in the House today, but I forgot, unfortunately; I was going to do it, even though we're not supposed to have props — canned salmon one time. It was called "big red" salmon or something like that — because of his hair, I think.

It had a warning label on it that said: "Be careful about eating this, because it's liable to cause you to have all sorts of ideas, like a container facility in Prince Rupert, like an expanded port, like an improved railway ser- vice." I know the minister used to be a shellfish farmer. I suspect she's been eating some of that salmon, be- cause she has delivered on all of those things that product warned us we might start thinking about if we ate it. Prince George has been through boom times and bust. I've lived there twice.

People on the Finance and Government Services Committee always tease me about all the places I've lived, because wherever we toured, it seemed like I had lived there before. I've lived there twice, and it was boom times on both of those occasions. Again, it's been so sad to hear of the economy shrinking and people's house values drop- ping. Most British Columbians can really grasp that if that's happening to you, you really feel bad, because to a lot of people their home is their retirement package. They expect to be abl

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H1127pm 03
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H1127pm 03
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	38b22a885dc968b9784f666f5bc8971d28f10b10

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