role="main" class="main-container container js-quickedit-main-content" id="main-content">

September 27, 2006

38th Parliament, 2nd Session

< Previous sitting day

Next sitting day >

Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2006-Sep-27 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Wednesday 27 September 2006 Mercredi 27 septembre 2006

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

ETHNIC MEDIA

COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTRE /

CENTRE DE SANTÉ COMMUNAUTAIRE

AUTISM TREATMENT

AIR QUALITY

CRYSTAL BEACH HERITAGE

WASTE MANAGEMENT

L'ÉCHO D'UN PEUPLE

EDUCATION

LONG-TERM CARE

VISITORS

LEGISLATIVE INTERNS

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT AGENCIES

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

GOVERNMENT SERVICES

ORAL QUESTIONS

HEALTH CARE

HOSPITAL FUNDING

VISITOR

HOSPITAL FUNDING

HYDRO RATES

HOSPITAL FUNDING

WATER EXTRACTION

HYDRO RATES

HOSPITAL FUNDING

EDUCATION FUNDING

FREEDOM OF INFORMATION

NATIVE LAND DISPUTE

AIR QUALITY

CLEANUP OF BROWNFIELDS

PETITIONS

TENANT PROTECTION

ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE

WATER QUALITY

CHILD CUSTODY

SCHOOL NUTRITION PROGRAMS

IDENTITY THEFT

PROPERTY RIGHTS

MACULAR DEGENERATION

CHILD CUSTODY

PROPERTY RIGHTS

LONG-TERM CARE

PROPERTY RIGHTS

ORDERS OF THE DAY

TRADITIONAL CHINESE

MEDICINE ACT, 2006 /

LOI DE 2006 SUR LES PRATICIENNES

ET PRATICIENS EN MÉDECINE

TRADITIONNELLE CHINOISE

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

ETHNIC MEDIA

Mr. Frank Klees (Oak Ridges): I take this opportunity to report to the House and, through this statement, to Ontarians across the province on an important event that took place here at Queen's

Park this past Friday, September 22. The National Ethnic Press and Media Council of Canada honoured 14 individuals from every walk of life and cultural background from all over Canada, as well as 14 publishers/editors of ethnocultural publications

in Canada.

The occasion was hosted by His Honour the Honourable James Bartleman, the Lieutenant Governor of Ontario. I was deeply honoured to represent John Tory and the Ontario PC caucus and to extend our congratulations

to the 28 award recipients. Also present was MP Peter Van Loan, who brought greetings from the Prime Minister, the Right Honourable Stephen Harper.

I ask honourable members here to acknowledge with me the crucially important role of the ethnic press and media in our country and in this province, where we celebrate one of the most culturally diverse

societies in the world. A special acknowledgement and congratulations are extended to Mr. Thomas S. Saras, president and CEO of the National Ethnic Press and Media Council of Canada, for his role in organizing this memorable event.

The work of our ethnocultural media is highly significant in the life of our province, especially when we consider how it provides a necessary cultural context within which new Canadians are made to feel both

comfortable and welcome in their new country. The ethnic media also keeps open the necessary cultural and linguistic channels for the maintenance, promotion and handing-on of the heritage of Ontario's many cultural communities that continue to

enrich our society.

COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTRE /

CENTRE DE SANTÉ COMMUNAUTAIRE

Mr. Jean-Marc Lalonde (Glengarry-Prescott-Russell): I am so proud to stand here today to say that the McGuinty government has improved community health care in Glengarry-Prescott-Russell.

Effectivement, le gouvernement McGuinty investit dans un nouveau centre de santé communautaire satellite à Bourget. Ces services sont parrainés par les services de santé communautaires de

l'Estrie de Cornwall et amélioreront l'accès aux soins de santé primaire pour les gens de la région de Bourget. Ceci est une excellente nouvelle pour cette communauté, qui a maintenant accès à des services de

santé bilingues.

En décembre dernier, notre gouvernement avait débouché des sommes importantes, et aujourd'hui je suis fier de dire que le centre de santé communautaire à Bourget a ouvert ses portes le

18 septembre dernier.

This community health care centre in Bourget is now fully operational. This is fantastic news for the people of this area. This community has been without a doctor for more than eight years. The closest hospital

to Bourget is the Monfort Hospital, and it is some 40 kilometres away.

Je suis du même avis que mon collègue George Smitherman, le ministre de la Santé et des Soins de longue durée, que les centres de santé communautaires sont les meilleurs moyens pour

promouvoir un mode de vie sain et la santé de la collectivité.

AUTISM TREATMENT

Mr. Ted Arnott (Waterloo-Wellington): In his very first question of this fall sitting of the Legislature, the Leader of the Opposition asked the Premier about his broken promise to families with

autistic children. Calling the Premier on the carpet for his broken promise to extend IBI treatment for autistic children beyond the age of six, our leader demanded action.

I first raised this issue in the House almost two and a half years ago as yet another example of the McGuinty Liberals' serial promise-breaking. This past summer, I was invited to speak at the No More Excuses

rally for autistic children, held in Kitchener. I met many parents who were imploring the Premier to keep his word, even though to date in many cases he has ignored their pleas for help. We have to find a way to help those kids.

A few days ago at estimates committee, I had a chance to ask the Minister of Children and Youth Services questions about this issue. When I asked an innocuous question, whether the government had made a public

announcement of new policies impacting autistic kids on waiting lists, she said this to me: "You know, Mr. Arnott, I'm going to get really angry very soon."

I think that autistic children and their parents deserve much more than a public display of anger by the McGuinty Liberal government. It was Dalton McGuinty who made this promise. It's up to Dalton McGuinty to

keep it, or without a doubt this broken promise will form part of the verdict that the Ontario voters will render unto this government on October 4, 2007.

AIR QUALITY

Ms. Andrea Horwath (Hamilton East): This summer it rained soot in Hamilton East and my constituents want answers from the McGuinty government. On August 10 and 11, for at least the third time

this summer, residents of Hamilton East saw their properties deluged with filthy, smearing, black carbon emissions. All this time later, the soot saga remains unsolved. The company responsible is still unknown because Ontario's Minister of the

Environment is asleep at the switch. A month ago I wrote her an urgent letter and still have received no response. Today I call on her again to hold an open public meeting right away, send ministry staff and start being accountable for this

ongoing environmental problem.

Early tests show the soot contains noxious elements like coal dust, black rubber and traces of paint. It's almost impossible to remove it. Imagine having to breathe it.

Residents expect their Ministry of the Environment to be seen and heard taking action. Tim Lockhart, who says his newly painted house is covered in soot, expected your ministry to take action. Linda Pickvance,

Lorna Moreau, Mary Lee and still hundreds more wait for action from your ministry. They want to know that this is not going to happen to them year after year. They want the minister to do her job and determine who is responsible, what caused the

problem and what enforcement and monitoring measures will be put in place to prevent soot pollution.

Hamilton East, with its concentration of industry, already has about the worst air in Ontario. Ironically, the Ministry of the Environment no longer monitors Hamilton East's air quality directly, instead

monitoring --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you.

CRYSTAL BEACH HERITAGE

Mr. Kim Craitor (Niagara Falls): Over the summer I was invited to Crystal Beach, a place that has many great memories from my youth. I remember the crowds, the amusement park, the huge roller

coaster and the sounds of the big-band era. What I realize now is that many of the crowds came by boat from Buffalo, a short 20 miles away, and contributed immensely to a vibrant economy.

On the last Sunday evening in August, with the sun setting and the sounds of the Glenn Miller band in the background, 12,000 pounds of cast steel that propelled the famed steamship SS Canadiana between Buffalo

and this Ontario resort for more than 40 years found a final resting place as a monument to these past times.

Efforts to restore the giant cruise ship, which ceased operating decades ago, failed when the ship was chopped up and sold off as scrap materials. But thanks to three Crystal Beach residents, Harvey Holzworth,

Paul Kassay and Rick Doan, the Canadiana's propeller, or three quarters of it, anyway, has resurfaced along the shorelines at Crystal Beach's Front Park, just a few hundred yards from where the 200-foot-long vessel used to dock. These men

spearheaded the effort to save the pieces from a bygone age from the scrap heap and purchased half of the rusty, zebra-mussel-encrusted, four-blade propeller. The prop now rests, along with the capstan and bollard from the ship, on a concrete pad,

with a memorial plaque identifying these items as a silent testimony to Crystal Beach's marine heritage. These are among a few of the ship's remains.

This House owes a great vote of gratitude to citizens like Holzworth, Kassay and Doan for keeping the history and heritage of this province and Crystal Beach alive.

WASTE MANAGEMENT

Ms. Laurie Scott (Haliburton-Victoria-Brock): It's time the McGuinty Liberals come clean with Ontario on their mismanagement of waste. The environment minister recently admitted the broken

promise of 60% waste diversion. We've all heard about the city of Toronto's goal of purchasing the Green Lane landfill site. The concern we have on this side of the House is the lack of representation which the Liberal MPPs in the area surrounding

Green Lane have shown to their constituents. There are two ministers and the party president of the Liberal caucus representing ridings around the Green Lane landfill site, and they claim to have been surprised by the city of Toronto's intent to

bring their garbage there. The whole situation reeks of Liberal mismanagement and fumbling.

The member for Elgin-Middlesex-London is on record suggesting that Toronto learn to look after its trash in its own backyard, yet he has known of the expansion in Green Lane since at least June 28 of this year.

It's time you start looking after your own backyard. I would hope that the member would stand up and take responsibility to ensure that the parameters of any deal to bring waste from --

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): The minister of Labour will come to order. The House will come to order.

Mr. Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): Come clean.

The Speaker: The member from Niagara Centre needs to come to order also. I need to be able to hear.

The member for Haliburton-Victoria-Brock.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. This isn't helpful. The member is waiting patiently. The government House leader will come to order.

Ms. Scott: I hope that the member from Elgin-Middlesex-London would stand up and take responsibility to ensure that the parameters of any deal to bring waste from Toronto to Green Lane would not

put the people of his riding in a position where they've been left with nowhere to bring their trash. Minister Peters, if you are as driven as you claim to be on protecting your constituents, put the rhetoric aside, step away from the comforts of

cabinet, stop toeing the McGuinty Liberal Party line and represent your constituents.

L'ÉCHO D'UN PEUPLE

M. Phil McNeely (Ottawa-Orléans): Cette année fut la troisième année consécutive que l'Écho d'un peuple se représenta au Théâtre Desjardins de la

Ferme Centenaire Drouin, à Casselman.

Pour la première fois cette année j'ai assisté à ce spectacle, qui m'a fait revivre plus de 400 ans de l'histoire francophone en Amérique du Nord.

L'Écho d'un peuple a rassemblé, depuis l'été 2004, plus de 55 000 personnes qui ont assisté à diverses représentations. Ce spectacle rassemble plus de 200 comédiens

et des centaines de bénévoles qui, pendant les trois dernières années, ont su épanouir leur public.

Ce spectacle éblouissant m'a ouvert les yeux à l'histoire de la francophonie ontarienne et canadienne. En une soirée, j'ai pu voyager dans le temps et j'ai eu l'expérience de l'histoire

francophone: du temps de la découverte de Cartier; de la colonisation de la Nouvelle-France; du périple des « raftsmen » qui faisaient la drave; du rapport Durham et la revanche des berceaux; de la ruée vers le

nord de l'Ontario; et de la bataille pour la survie de l'Hôpital Montfort.

Le témoignage collectif et la qualité exprimée par tous les tableaux présentés à l'Écho d'un peuple ont su démontrer la fierté franco-ontarienne. La qualité du

spectacle est incroyable.

En tant que député d'Ottawa-Orléans, je veux dire un grand merci aux artistes et volontaires qui ont su faire de l'édition 2006 de l'Écho d'un peuple un spectacle à ne pas

manquer.

EDUCATION

Mr. Jim Brownell (Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh): First, I would like to congratulate Minister Wynne on her appointment as Minister of Education. As a former teacher and someone who has a

daughter as a teacher and nieces and nephews in the school system, I feel confident that they and the future of Ontario's education system are in good hands.

Indeed, since the McGuinty government was formed, class sizes have gone down, test scores have gone up, more students are graduating, and finally we have the labour peace we need in order to stay on track. What

was neglected under past governments is beginning to blossom once again.

In my riding of Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh, there could be no greater symbol of this fresh start for students and teachers than the opening of the new Central Public School this September in downtown

Cornwall. This summer, the Minister of Labour had an opportunity of coming to my riding to see that school. This facility is ideally situated and suited to meet the needs of local students, connecting them to the modern world through their

state-of-the-art systems while preserving the past in the façade of the old building that's been preserved as the back wall of the school's library. This is an incredible school, Central Public, and its teachers, students and parents -- a

great tribute to the determination of my constituents and the commitment of this government towards quality education in Ontario. We see a great future at Central. We see a great future for education in SD and C.

LONG-TERM CARE

Mr. Wayne Arthurs (Pickering-Ajax-Uxbridge): I rise in the House today to speak to the matter of long-term care and the McGuinty government's commitment to ensuring higher standards and a

greater quality of care for those relying on this essential service. The McGuinty government has made record investments in long-term care because we believe that it's essential for our seniors to receive the best care possible.

We have increased funding by $740 million since taking office, 155 million of those dollars in this year alone, and have hired some 3,140 new staff to date. We've also brought in new regulations and brought

tougher inspections to ensure the quality of care is properly administered.

In the past, we saw the Conservative government removing nursing and bathing standards for long-term-care residents. We brought them back. They also allowed nursing homes to operate without proper licences,

which is unacceptable. We're committed to making our long-term-care homes better for our family members and friends seeking this assistance, which translates into better standards of care for our loved ones.

Our focus is on hope and dignity, which we believe should be number one in creating a positive and nurturing environment for those in long-term care. We know there is more to do, but the McGuinty Liberal

government is committed to improving long-term care and providing hope and dignity for all those who need it.

VISITORS

Ms. Judy Marsales (Hamilton West): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker: I take pleasure today in introducing two guests in the gallery. Ian and Josephine Taylor combine artistic skill and great

innovation coming out of Hamilton. Ian is one of the great bass players in Hamilton, and Josephine is a wonderful artist, writer and singer. Ian has a company, Reflex Advanced Marine Corp., that is designing and engineering high-speed boats and

ferries. Please give them a welcome.

LEGISLATIVE INTERNS

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): With us today in the Speaker's gallery are the 2006-07 Ontario legislative interns. We have with us Ian Burns, Laura Dougan, Neil Foley, Jason Lagerquist,

Tom McDowell, Rachel Stack, Lauren Starr and Eleni Tsoutsias, and their academic director, Dr. Henry Jacek. Welcome.

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT AGENCIES

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): I beg to inform the House that today the Clerk received the report on intended appointments dated September 27, 2006, of the standing committee on government

agencies. Pursuant to standing order 106(e)9, the report is deemed to be adopted by the House.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

GOVERNMENT SERVICES

Hon. Gerry Phillips (Minister of Government Services): I would like to outline to the House the status of a broad range of government services that are provided online.

More families are benefiting from better access to government services now that they can go online. Today we announced an all-in-one application that will allow you to register your child's birth, apply for a

birth certificate and get a social insurance number all with one step. We also announced that you can now go online to get a marriage or a death certificate.

You will remember that a year ago, we wanted to make it more convenient to get your birth certificate delivered securely to you. We wanted to demonstrate to the public that we could do that in 15 business days.

We wanted to show the public that our public service can and does deliver good service. As you know, our government introduced a money-back service guarantee so that anyone who applies for their birth certificate online will get their certificate

delivered to them within 15 business days or it's free. This was the first guarantee of its kind certainly in North America.

This has been a tremendous success story for the government. Until we began this initiative, no certificates could be applied for online. Now, as of mid-September, we've had 240,000 birth certificate

applications processed online and, so far, have had to issue only 80 refunds out of those 240,000 for not being delivered within 15 days. In other words, all the rest were delivered within 15 business days.

This has been a tremendous achievement accomplished, I must say, by our hard-working and dedicated public service. We're making it easier for the people of Ontario, and we're providing services the way our

citizens want them to be delivered. We intend to further expand our online services to include, as I said earlier, online marriage and online death certificates.

Our tremendous success with online birth certificates paves the way for these new initiatives. When we began, as the House will remember, we had a backlog for birth registration and birth certificate services.

At its worst, the turnaround time was over 20 weeks. We have made substantial progress. As I have mentioned, we now have a success rate of more than 99.5% getting their birth certificates on time for those who have filled out correctly their

online application.

We know that the people of Ontario have busy schedules, This quick and easy application helps eliminate unnecessary delays for birth certificates.

I am also pleased to say that we are making further improvements in our newborn birth registration with a Service Ontario initiative that is reducing paperwork and simplifying a complicated process for new

parents. The newborn registration service is a new joint service with our federal counterpart, Service Canada. It offers parents an easy and convenient way to register the birth of their newborn and apply for the baby's birth certificate and

social insurance number all at the same time.

New parents have enough to do without worrying about paperwork. This service is making it easier for families to spend time doing the things they need and want instead of filling out paperwork. By combining

three steps in one, we are saving parents the hassle of filling out separate paper forms and entering the same information over and over again.

Importantly, we are planning to further expand the newborn registration service next spring. At that time, the government will be piloting the next phase of the service to allow parents and hospitals to

register directly with the province, making the system even faster and simpler to use. With this, we are also planning to eliminate the need for registration fees that apply to birth registrations. Those are paid to municipalities to register.

When they go directly with us, the fee will no longer be charged.

And there is more good news, as people can go online for marriage and death certificates on the Internet. This will further cut down on the time people have to wait to get these important documents. Following

the model we used to deliver great results on birth certificates, marriage and death certificates will also come with a money-back guarantee. That will begin in the new year.

Ontarians want and deserve better service, and through Service Ontario and with the hard work of our dedicated public services, we are making that happen.

Just for the public, if you want to go online for it, it is www.serviceontario.ca.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Responses?

Ms. Lisa MacLeod (Nepean-Carleton): As the mother of an 18-month-old, I have recent first-hand experience getting a birth certificate. As I'm sure the honourable minister will know, it was not

an easy process, and I'm someone who is quite familiar with this government's red tape.

While I think that on the surface this announcement is great news for parents, immigrants to Ontario, families of those recently deceased, and any Ontarian who needs these documents or their replacements, when

you dig a little deeper past the usual Liberal huff and fluff, you will find this is just another example of these Liberals saying anything and doing anything to get elected.

The Premier and the Minister of Government Services were at Women's College Hospital this morning to announce a rejig of the government's website, yet in the rush to recover from a month-long public relations

nightmare, not a single dollar of new funding was announced for any of our overcrowded hospital emergency rooms, for our overbooked pediatric operating rooms or to help ease the process to certify foreign-trained doctors -- no, not a single new

dollar to improve our gutted health care system. Going to Women's College Hospital was, pure and simple, another phony photo op from this Premier Personality. In fact, this Liberal government under this Premier will say anything, take any picture,

and show up at any location just to get elected.

What's next? Will the Premier and one of his band of merry ministers show up at a pet store, stand among the puppies and announce the redesign of the logo of yet another provincial corporation?

The fact of the matter is that this lazy Liberal government fails to act over and over again. Just ask the chief of surgery at CHEO in my great city of Ottawa, Dr. Baxter Willis, who was quoted in last

Saturday's Ottawa Citizen regarding the utter lack of focus this government has for improving wait times for pediatric surgery: "There are some services where the waits do appear to be particularly long and the psychological trauma of having to

wait six, 10 or 12 months wears on both the child and family, especially a child who is going to have a major spine operation."

Interjections.

Ms. MacLeod: Mr. Speaker, we've touched a nerve.

One of the last things any parent wants to hear is that their young child needs surgery. It is shameful that parents and children in eastern Ontario, and in fact all of Ontario, have to wait up to 12 months

for ear, nose and throat, spine, and dental surgery.

This Premier seems to think that streamlining the process to get your child's birth certificate somehow trumps getting these suffering children into the operating rooms and on the road to recovery. As a

parent, I can speak with authority when I say that if I had a choice between getting my daughter's birth certificate 30 days sooner or getting my daughter's spine, nose, ears or throat operated on, I would choose the health of my daughter over the

Premier's bureaucracy in a heartbeat.

In closing, I would just like to say this: I, and people all over the great province of Ontario, hope that in the design of this new website the government services minister and the Premier were thoughtful

enough to include a check box so they can get the retroactive death certificate for this sorry Liberal government.

Ms. Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): I am pleased to respond on behalf of New Democrats to the statement that was made by the Minister of Government Services. I was at the press conference this

morning when the minister announced the online newborn birth registration service, and I've got to tell you that the government missed the boat entirely this morning.

The problem isn't not having enough time to register your child; the problem is that too many parents in Ontario can't afford the fee that they have to pay to register the birth of their child with the

municipalities. If a child goes unregistered, then the parent can't get a birth certificate, and they have to pay $25 for the birth certificate. If they can't get a birth certificate, then they can't get a social insurance number. And the problems

go on and on and on.

If you can't pay the fee to the municipality to register your child because you can't afford to, then you can't do all of these other things. So completing your baby's birth certificate registration form

online, which then goes to the municipality to process, will not help you at all if you can't afford to go to the municipality to actually pay the fee attached to the registration.

Does the government know that there's a problem with this fee? Yes, they do. On July 24, 2006, the Globe and Mail quoted Mr. Paul de Zara, who works for the minister. Here's what he said: "Studies have shown

that the fees now charged by municipalities to register births result in some parents failing to record their children -- an oversight that creates a crippling set of problems later on, since it's impossible to get a birth certificate unless a

child's birth has been registered."

Let me tell you, it's not just some parents. Since 1996, when the former Conservative government permitted municipalities to charge a fee for registering a birth, a situation that remains in place under the

Liberal government today, some 30,000 babies have gone unregistered and unreported in Ontario. That makes it impossible for the province to keep an accurate count of the population, because those births being unregistered mean that the deaths are

unregistered too.

Dr. Arne Ohlsson, who works at Mount Sinai and who is also a member of Public Health Agency of Canada's Canadian Perinatal Surveillance System, says that it's difficult for policy-makers to decide what

prenatal programs are needed to prevent early deaths or sick babies if you don't have an accurate count of births. He also said -- and this is in the Sudbury Star in July -- "It's a huge problem; it's appalling. If you don't have the baseline

data, you cannot really compare and see what happened after we introduced a new intervention." He also said that babies who are not registered are usually the most vulnerable. They are born to moms who can be illiterate, who are homeless, who are

poor, etc. That is why he said that the birth registration fee is unconstitutional, violates the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, and needs to be cancelled.

Let me give you an idea of some of those fees: $28.50 in Hamilton to register your child; $33 in Ottawa; $35 in Toronto. Don't forget, that's just the fee to get registered. Then you have to pay another fee to

get the birth certificate, and it goes on and on.

So today was really the day that the government, since it knows that there's a problem, should have come forward and said that the government of Ontario is going to assume responsibility for the registration

of births of newborns in the province and the government is not going to charge a fee to do that. But do you know what the problem was? It seemed that today, frankly, the government was far more interested in a photo op than they were in ensuring

that families who can't afford to register their child because of the cost to do so will actually have their needs met.

So now we hear from the minister that the government is going to do something about this matter in 2007. How convenient. Probably just before the next election. The problem is, too many families can't afford

to register their child now. The government should assume responsibility for this service, and the government should say now no more fees to any parent to register the birth of their newborn in Ontario.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Again today, we're having a few more private conversations than are good for any kind of decorum in this place. I'd ask members, if you wish to have private conversations, it

would be good to do that in the lounge.

ORAL QUESTIONS

HEALTH CARE

Mr. John Tory (Leader of the Opposition): My question is to the Premier: Given your comment this morning that "As an Ontarian, if I had to choose between a privately funded doctor and no

doctor, then I'd take the privately funded doctor, obviously," we're intrigued to hear that this is now government policy. Can you confirm that the government will accompany this new policy with a commitment to the 1.2 million Ontarians who don't

have a family doctor, that you will fund their trips to Massena, to Buffalo and to Port Huron when they go looking for the health care they need because they don't have a doctor? Will you confirm that?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): I'm pleased to report that there are 420,000 fewer orphan patients in Ontario. It is interesting to hear from the leader of

the official opposition in his unaccustomed role now, apparently, as the champion of medicare. This is a party that wouldn't support our commitment-to-medicare act. This is a party that is devoting itself to taking at least $2.5 billion out of our

health care system. We're bringing a different approach. We are making substantial investments in health care, whether we're talking about increasing the number of doctors, number of nurses, medical school spaces, community health centres,

investments in long-term care and the like. We are making significant investments in and providing additional protections to public health care in the province of Ontario.

Mr. Tory: Another day and another non-answer. Let's just talk about the progress you're making, such that we have today 136 underserviced communities in Ontario, up from 126 when you took

office. That's real progress: 10 more communities where they don't have doctors.

Now, it's difficult to reconcile your comments. On the one hand you said today, this morning -- your words -- that you would choose private health care if no doctor was available, but now you say it's not

government policy. Well, for the 1.2 million Ontarians who don't have a doctor, this is a very real choice that you mused about today -- 1.2 million Ontarians who are paying up to $900 in your health tax that you said you wouldn't bring in. This

is an astonishing admission of failure, an astonishing admission that you broke your promise, and I quote, to "ensure that services are available where you need them, when you need them."

Here is my question. I'll ask you again to clarify: Are Ontarians who don't have a family doctor being told by you that they should cross the border to get their medical care? Are you saying they should be

able to pay privately here to get that care? Which is it?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: I'm saying, "No," to both those questions.

Mr. Tory: You'll excuse us for being confused and excuse the people of Ontario for being confused. They know --

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Stop the clock. Attorney General. Order. I need to be able to hear the Leader of the Opposition put his question. The Leader of the Opposition?

Mr. Tory: The people are confused. Now, they do know that you would say absolutely anything to try and win an election.

Interjections.

The Speaker: The Minister of Health will come to order. Try again, Leader of the Opposition.

Mr. Tory: You are the one who said this morning that you would choose private health care. Your Minister of Health said he doesn't approve of private health care. Indeed, he said he would lie

down at the border to stop people from coming across. Now you're saying that you would step over him on the way to Buffalo to see one of the people that he described as a snake oil salesman.

So what the people of Ontario are entitled to know from you, Premier, is this: Which is it? Is it private health care, or do you believe, as I do, that Ontarians should pay for their health care only with

their own OHIP cards? Which is it? Are you going to step over the Minister of Health or do you believe, as I do, only with the OHIP card?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: It's always good to hear from the defender of the people, but I think it is important to compare and contrast their record with ours. In case Mr. Tory has forgotten this,

they fired nurses by the thousands in Ontario. They closed hospitals. They compared those nurses, in fact, to hula-hoop workers. They closed hospitals and they closed emergency rooms.

We've introduced a Commitment to the Future of Medicare Act, which was not supported by that party. We are investing in public hospitals in the province of Ontario. We are expanding medical school spaces. We

are hiring the nurses they fired by the thousands; we're now hiring them by the thousands. We are investing heavily in our community health centres. We are building a new medical school in the province of Ontario; in fact, it is up and running

now. We've got three new satellites when it comes to our medical schools, as well.

I will gladly compare our record and our commitment to medicare in the province of Ontario any day against theirs.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mr. John Tory (Leader of the Opposition): My question is to the Premier, and I'll say there is only one person in here who has talked today about sending people off to get private care in

Ontario and that's the Premier of Ontario, Dalton McGuinty -- the only guy in here.

The reason that you were asked about this is because of the crisis happening in emergency rooms in communities across this province. That includes Cambridge, Sault Ste. Marie, Hamilton and all kinds of other

places. I've travelled across the province and visited many emergency rooms and I've heard the stories of people who are waiting hours and hours to see someone in those emergency rooms. Can you tell us what concrete actions your government is

taking to deal with this crisis? What are you doing?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): The Minister of Health.

Hon. George Smitherman (Deputy Premier, Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): Firstly, the member, in his desire to manufacture a crisis, which is his style, indicated hospitals that aren't

even in such a circumstance. It will come as a surprise to the people of Hamilton, as an example, where their emergency rooms are appropriately staffed, that this member has put them on a crisis list.

The circumstances with respect to emergency rooms are, of course, something that have been a challenge for the health care system for decades and no one has struggled with it more vigorously than the

honourable member who sits beside the one asking the question. "Vigorously" is one word for it.

The point here is that in various circumstances two things are at play: That party cut hospital beds by 22% during their time in office, and they also failed to produce a sufficiency of doctors. The strategies

that we're involved in include creating a bigger group of doctors who will work in emergency rooms and providing care in appropriate places for people. That's why we've been able to capture 420,000 people who now have a doctor in Ontario and

didn't under your --

Mr. Tory: Well, 126 communities underserviced when they took office; 136 communities underserviced today.

Premier, we know that the announcements that you've made to date aren't working. We know that, and you admitted as much when you said you would seek private care just this morning.

We have a document that you put out called Improving Access to Emergency Services: A System Commitment. It was commissioned in February 2005, but not released until January 2006. That report recommends a

benchmark of six hours from the time an ER doctor decides to admit a patient until that patient is admitted to the hospital, and it recommends that current wait times in hospitals be reduced by 10% every six months until the benchmark is

achieved.

Can you tell us specifically, hospital by hospital -- or if you prefer, LHIN by LHIN -- what progress we have made, and will you table a written report indicating whatever progress has or has not been made

within 24 hours?

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: Firstly, with respect to the question or the assertion that the honourable member makes with respect to underserviced communities, if he spent just a little bit of time

talking to the longest serving health minister in the Harris-Eves government, that is, the member who sits beside him and enjoys the privilege of being his party's deputy leader, he would know that on her watch the number of underserviced

communities in Ontario went from 40 to 142, and under our watch, it's begun to be reduced. This is news that travels very slowly to those who are very poor listeners.

With respect to the challenges in emergency rooms, as we spoke a moment ago, the opportunities to address this relate to providing care for people in the most appropriate setting, building the capacity to be

able to flow individuals through the hospital environment and creating a sufficiency of doctors in the hospital environment to meet those tests.

In Britain and other places where they've put arbitrary times in place, it has created circumstances that have not enjoyed improvements in patient care.

We'll continue to work with all of our hospitals that enjoy independent board governance in our province and Ontario's doctors to create better circumstances in emergency rooms, seeking to rebuild from a party

The Speaker: Thank you, Minister.

Final supplementary.

Mr. Tory: The reason the news travels slowly is because, in fact, the news is that the number of underserviced communities has gone up on your watch from 126 to 136, and whatever you can talk

about, about letting the good times roll and sitting back and saying it's all resolved, there are 1.2 million Ontarians today who don't have a doctor. That's the fact.

My question, again, is to the Premier. The reason that you can't tell us any of this is because your government has not made this a priority. Your health minister was asked to make this a priority a year ago

and refused. Your government is sitting on another report, entitled Improving Access to Emergency Care: Addressing System Issues. You've had it since August and you won't let it see the light of day.

Premier, will you commit to releasing this report today, to letting us all see what the recommendations are and whether you've done anything about them since August while people sit and wait for care in these

emergency rooms? Will you agree to table this report in the next 24 hours and let us all see what it says?

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: We're very happy to work with the honourable member towards the release of the report because the report is a damning condemnation of the work of that government while in

office. The circumstances are clear. At the heart of the report it says that the circumstances we are experiencing in Ontario's emergency rooms relate to the fact that while that party was in office, under the Tory torment of Mike Harris and Ernie

Eves and these two health ministers who sit proudly in your caucus, they reduced hospital capacity in the form of acute care beds in our province by 22%. At the very same time, they sat idly by on their hands, as you might say, as community after

community experienced a shortcoming in terms of the number of doctors because they were unwilling to increase the size of our medical schools and they were unwilling to address the opportunity presented by our foreign-trained doctors.

You can spin it any way you want and you can pretend you were running things from the backroom, but the reality is clear to everyone: The circumstances in emergency rooms today were manufactured by your

party.

VISITOR

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Please stop the clock. I would ask members to help me welcome in the Speaker's gallery Sir Michael Lord, MP, Deputy Speaker of the House of Commons in

London, in the UK. Good afternoon, Mr. Lord.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Premier. You promised to stop the creeping privatization and Americanization of our medicare system. However, today, Cambridge

Memorial Hospital is expected to announce that a profit-driven private corporation is taking over emergency room services. That's the creeping privatization and Americanization of medicare you used to denounce from the rooftops, yet when you were

asked earlier, you said you will do nothing to stop this privatization of hospital services.

Premier, why won't you now stand up for medicare, as you promised, and stop the privatization of Cambridge Memorial Hospital's emergency room?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): Again, if the leader of the NDP is such a strong champion of medicare, I ask him, on behalf of Ontarians, why did he not

support our Commitment to the Future of Medicare Act?

I know the leader of the NDP would perhaps be aware that Med-Emerg has been operating in Ontario since 1983. What he may not be aware of is that when he and his party formed the government, there were at least

17 occasions in 17 different Ontario hospitals where Med-Emerg was offering and in fact was contracted to offer services. You may want to take that into consideration.

Mr. Hampton: This is the measure of the Premier's support for medicare. Yes, we've always had temporary doctors. This is the takeover of a hospital emergency room. This is quite a bit bigger,

quite a bit more than that.

You also admitted this morning that your toothless tiger, your so-called Commitment to the Future of Medicare Act, would not stop the privatization of the Cambridge hospital emergency room, that your

much-boasted-about Commitment to the Future of Medicare Act would do nothing.

We believe we must support medicare. We believe it is urgent. In fact, we have drafted an emergency bill to close the loopholes in your Commitment to the Future of Medicare Act and stop the privatization. Will

you support our bill, Premier?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: Again, I just wonder where the leader of the NDP is when it really comes to medicare, because he wouldn't stand up for the Commitment to the Future of Medicare Act. He

proclaims this to be a fundamental breach of medicare, but when they were in government, the exact same situation occurred in 17 separate hospitals, and he closed his eyes at that particular time. Apparently that was acceptable then, but it's

unacceptable now.

The circumstances are less than outstanding, obviously. We're working very hard to expand medical school spaces to graduate more doctors. We've entered into a very competitive agreement -- one which was

decried, by the way, by the NDP -- to ensure that Ontario doctors are paid handsomely for the wonderful services they provide here to the people of Ontario. That's the approach we're bringing. At the same time, of course, the Minister of Health is

working very diligently to address this very specific emergency room issue.

Mr. Hampton: The approach you're bringing is to allow the privatization of a hospital emergency room, and you've had to admit that your toothless tiger, your Commitment to the Future of

Medicare Act, would do nothing to prevent that -- nothing.

New Democrats want to resolve this issue. That's why this summer our health critic put forward a plan modelled on the plan that is being used today in Manitoba by the NDP government there. It would create a

public agency of emergency room doctors who would be available to make sure emergency rooms can operate. We think you should adopt that plan. Instead, you said, "I would rather have a private doctor than no doctor at all."

Premier, is this the choice the McGuinty government now offers the people of Ontario: a private doctor working for a profit-driven corporation taking over the emergency room or no doctor at all?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: I'm doing everything I can to restrain my own Minister of Health here.

One of the things the leader of the NDP is not telling us in terms of details connected with his particular bill is that his health critic is calling for our emergency room physicians to be paid more.

We are very proud of the agreement that we entered into with the Ontario Medical Association. I want to remind the leader of the NDP of what he said when we put out that OMA agreement. He said, "The agreement

is wrestling doctors' salaries to the ceiling. Doctors got the key to the bank vault." He called the agreement a bribe. Now, he's calling upon us to top up emergency room doctors in Ontario. Again, it's very difficult, from one day to the next, to

know where the leader of the NDP stands when it comes to supporting medicare and our emergency room doctors.

HYDRO RATES

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): To the Premier: [ Failure of sound system ] for the money that you put into the OMA agreement and not tell people they have to pay privately to

get a doctor in the emergency room.

Northern Ontario's mayors, all of its large forest company employers and major forest company unions are united in sending you one simple message: Reduce the northern Ontario industrial hydro rate to $45 a

megawatt hour, all inclusive, immediately. One and all, they are saying that their communities are being devastated by your disastrous policy of driving hydro rates through the roof, where you've killed 25,000 direct and indirect jobs already.

Yesterday, you didn't want to answer the question, so I will ask it again: Are you prepared to do what you said you were looking at doing eight months ago? Are you prepared to announce a reduction in the

industrial hydro rate in northern Ontario to $45 a megawatt hour all --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): The question's been asked. Premier?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): To the Minister of Energy.

Hon. Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy): First of all, we acknowledge the enormous difficulty faced by our northern industries and northern individuals with respect to the price of

electricity. The Premier indicated some several months ago that we are looking at the whole regional-based pricing issue very closely. There are many incarnations of that policy that we're looking at, many challenges with it. We want to make sure

we get it right.

I should also remind the member that this government has spent close to a billion dollars to assist the forestry industry, everything through cogeneration initiatives undertaken by the Ontario Power Authority,

uploading the cost of roads. The regional pricing issue could be a component that we will bring forward when we believe we have the right policy for the north and for those industries that are affected.

It's important that we be sensitive to that industry, to the north and to individual residents --

The Speaker: Thank you. Supplementary.

Mr. Hampton: The McGuinty government has held some photo ops in northern Ontario and you've put out some phony press releases in northern Ontario, but as far as paper mills, pulp mills,

sawmills receiving the money that you promised, very few have seen anything at all. What they've seen is the loss of 25,000 direct and indirect jobs, almost all of them killed directly as a result of the McGuinty government's charging mills seven

cents a kilowatt hour for electricity that only costs one or two cents a kilowatt hour to produce in northern Ontario.

Mayor Anne Krassilowsky of Dryden and Mayor Lynn Peterson of Thunder Bay addressed the government agencies committee, and this is what they said: "Our communities cannot wait. Government has got to take action

now.... We have got to have competitively priced electricity and that means $45 or less per megawatt hour all-in electricity pricing, and we've got to have the solution now."

I repeat, people in northern Ontario want an answer from the McGuinty government.

The Speaker: The question has been asked. Minister.

Hon. Mr. Duncan: The member opposite [ Failure of sound system ] some of the initiatives we have taken that are a lot more than "nothing" announcements. First of all, the power

authority will be releasing the results of 1,000 megawatts of new cogeneration projects and has developed that program for that; $220 million into Ontario's forest sector over these three years, in addition to the first announcement of $330

million. Both announcements are on top of $350 million in loan guarantees to ensure the ongoing competitiveness of Ontario's forest sector.

All of these announcements, taken together, represent a very solid commitment on the part of this government. And let me reconfirm our commitment to continue to work with that industry. We recognize it's a

challenge. We will address the challenge in a responsible, prudent way to help ensure a vibrant future for the forest sector in Ontario's north.

Mr. Hampton: I think I understand why the Premier doesn't want to answer this question. The Premier was in Thunder Bay, where he said that the McGuinty government was going to look seriously

at reducing industrial hydro rates. Now, eight months later, after thousands more jobs have been lost, what do we see from the McGuinty government? More dithering.

I just want to read the comments of some other mayors. This is what Mayor Peterson of Thunder Bay said, with her voice trembling: "We need to put a human face on this. These are real families with real jobs

with real mortgages.... We've had enough. `Soon, soon, soon' doesn't work." We need action "now." She said the McGuinty government must reduce industrial hydro rates in the north to $45 a megawatt hour, all charges included.

Michael Power, the mayor of Greenstone, said, "This is where you have lost your house." This is where families are losing everything.

Premier, when are you going to act, or are you going to destroy more jobs through your misguided hydro rate hikes?

Hon. Mr. Duncan: Let me just assure the people of northern Ontario that this government is working to find those solutions, as we have up until now. But let me remind the people of northern

Ontario what the member opposite has said about regional pricing in the past. It is often interesting to dig into quotes, and these aren't that old. Speaking about regionally based pricing, this is what the member said on June 27, 2002. He said,

"This essentially means that the one-price system we've always had, the system that says we're all equal citizens of Ontario, would be gone. It means some consumers should be prepared to get whacked over the head." So who do you want to whack over

the head, Mr. Hampton? Who? Tell the people of Ontario who. We're not going to whack people over the head. We're going to come up with a policy that serves all Ontarians.

Here's what he said on June 26, 2002: "It means that not only will the cost of electricity itself rapidly move up, but the cost of transmitting that electricity would increase as well." The member opposite

The Speaker: Thank you, Minister. Stop the clock.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer (Kitchener-Waterloo): My question is for the Minister of Health. Despite your denial that there is an emergency room crisis in this province or in my community, the

Kitchener-Waterloo Record would beg to differ with you with this headline: "ER Crisis." I would say to you, Friday of this week is the last full day of coverage for our two emergency rooms in Kitchener-Waterloo. I am asking you today, Minister,

what are you personally prepared to do and what personal responsibility are you prepared to assume in order that patients' lives are not put at risk? What plan do you have?

Hon. George Smitherman (Deputy Premier, Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I would remind the honourable member of her time in office. From Chatham: "Chatham ER in Critical Condition"

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Order. I need to be able to hear the Minister of Health in his response.

Minister of Health.

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: It seems like the member from Kitchener-Waterloo is interested in the Kitchener Record but not in her record. The sad reality is that emergency rooms knew no greater

crisis than when she was in office. The circumstances are very, very clear. Our government has been working double time to make up for the lost time created by these two parties. When they were in office, they sat on their hands and they

squandered the opportunity to produce a sufficient number of doctors. You can't make a doctor as fast as you can make a pizza. You can pretend all you want, but you just can't.

The honourable member knows that the Health Services Restructuring Commission brought to her recommendations about alterations to health delivery in her community. Every other community went forward. The

Wellesley Hospital closed; 28 other hospitals closed; 20 emergency rooms closed. And this member --

The Speaker: Thank you, Minister. Supplementary.

Mrs. Witmer: For three years, this government has mismanaged our health system. This government has attempted to deflect any problems to local hospitals, doctors, anybody except

themselves.

You know that there is a report sitting on your desk with recommendations that deal with working conditions in emergency rooms, that deal with human resource issues. We know we need more nurses, we know we

need more staff, and yet you refuse to take action. I ask you today, when will you release that report, when will you act on the recommendations, and when will you ensure that patients' lives will no longer be put at risk?

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: The honourable member, demonstrating a new-found passion to the issue of patients in the province of Ontario, should have asked herself some similarly hard questions when

she had the chance to produce a sufficient number of doctors for the province. She talks about processes and working conditions. These are locally occurring circumstances. Why is it that you deflect the responsibility created between local

hospitals and their physicians? That is their relationship. It's theirs to manage. And you deflect all of that to Queen's Park.

The report that you wish to have released will soon be released. But you should not wish for its release, because the one thing that is fundamentally clear in that report is that it lays the responsibility for

today's problems at your feet, because you reduced by 22% the number of acute care beds in Ontario.

WATER EXTRACTION

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): New question. The member for Toronto-Danforth.

Mr. Peter Tabuns (Toronto-Danforth): There will be a test at the end of this session.

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Premier. Premier, the following quote, I'm sure, will sound familiar to you: "We will stop allowing companies to raid our precious water supplies.... When companies want to

bottle our water or export it as part of other products, the Harris-Eves government gives it to them free.... We will end this reckless giveaway."

It's from your 2003 election platform. So when can Ontarians expect you to stop the reckless giveaway and introduce water-taking fees that you promised over three years ago? You made the promise, Mr. Premier,

so it would be best to have you answer that question.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): I refer this to the Minister of the Environment.

Hon. Laurel C. Broten (Minister of the Environment): I am the one who has the privilege in this government to be delivering day after day on work in this province to ensure that we have a

future of clean, safe, abundant drinking water. The work that this government has done to ensure that Ontarians right across the province have clean, safe, abundant drinking water started early in the days of this mandate under my predecessor,

Minister Dombrowsky, who immediately put a moratorium on permits to take water so that we could assess how much water we had in this province.

Then we followed up with a tougher system of permits to take water, the development of a Clean Water Act, over three years of consultation, $120 million of scientific research being done right across the

province to let us know, how much water do we have? How good is that water? What are threats to that water? The work is not done, and we continue to do that work each and every day.

Mr. Tabuns: Premier, since the Minister of the Environment won't answer the question, I'll come back to you. You could have introduced water-taking fees under the Clean Water Act, but your

government refused. Countless environmental groups, community groups, your own expert panel, recommended that you implement water-taking fees so you'd have the revenue to implement, to monitor, to enforce source protection plans. Without adequate

resources, these plans will fail.

In committee, we in the NDP put forward the amendments to allow you to keep your promise and implement water-taking fees. So, Mr. Premier, will your government commit today to introducing water-taking fees by

the end of this year? Will you do that?

Hon. Ms. Broten: I would suggest to the member opposite that he has asked this question before, and I have answered it: at estimates, in the scrums, across the halls of this building. We are

working on a plan to ensure that we are delivering on water-taking charges.

Your record with respect to determining what our government will or will not do is not that good. Bill 133: Member Churley forecast that we could take no action. And what did we do? We moved forward with Bill

133. Recently, you yourself indicated that we did not have the appetite or wherewithal to move with respect to a bottle return, and soon after that, the Premier and I made that announcement.

I would suggest that you stay tuned. We've got three years down, one year to go. We are working on that plan. We want to deliver a plan that makes sense across the province, and you may have to eat your

hat.

HYDRO RATES

Mr. David Orazietti (Sault Ste. Marie): My question is for the Minister of Energy. Minister, everyone here knows that jobs and industry in the north are going through a very difficult

transition period. I think even the member of the third party can recognize that. Our government listened and took action. We responded in the forestry industry: an economic package at $900 million, larger than that of the auto sector. I want to

commend the Premier, the Minister of Energy and the Minister of Natural Resources for that.

It's unfortunate that the leader of the NDP has once again done a disservice to the people of northern Ontario by twisting the facts to suit his own political agenda. Today in the Sault Star, a headline reads

"McGuinty Rejects Call for" regional hydro pricing. It's extremely important that we correct the record: The headline was misleading, and I want my constituents to know that this government is still giving serious consideration --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): I need you to withdraw the offending word.

Mr. Orazietti: Withdrawn.

I want my constituents to know that this government is still giving serious consideration to the report on regionally based pricing. Minister, please share with me and my constituents what our government's

position on this is.

Hon. Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy): I want to thank the member for Sault Ste. Marie for being a tireless advocate on behalf --

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. Minister of Northern Development, member for Timmins-James Bay. I need to be able to hear the Minister of Energy in his response. Minister?

Hon. Mr. Duncan: It's understandable why they're reacting. They never did this in their term, and this government is continuing to look at that issue. The headline in the Star was simply

wrong.

Let's remind the NDP what their leader says about regional-based pricing. I didn't get a chance to finish it in the last one. This is Howard Hampton in Hansard, June 26, 2002: "It means that not only will the

cost of electricity itself rapidly move up, but the cost of transmitting the electricity would increase as well."

He also said, in his opposition to regionally based pricing, that three out of four people are saying, "Don't do it." That's in the Ontario NDP News Digest, June 27, 2002.

The NDP are trying to have it both ways. They can't. This government, under the Premier's leadership, is looking at the regional pricing issue. It's moving like no government has before, with a consistent

position that's aimed at protecting jobs in the north and helping our northern --

The Speaker: Thank you, Minister. The member for Sault Ste. Marie.

Mr. Orazietti: You've set the record straight and clarified that this government is still committed to reviewing regional-based pricing. I find it a bit rich that the NDP rails against our

government, given their disastrous record in my community of Sault Ste. Marie for more than a decade.

Apart from the regional-based pricing, companies across the north are telling me that they're prepared to make investments --

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. The member for Sault Ste. Marie.

Mr. Orazietti: Minister, what additional strategies are in place to help companies improve their efficiencies so they can see a positive impact on their energy bills?

Hon. Mr. Duncan: I want to assure the member that a big part of our strategy to help these industries cope with energy costs is helping them become more efficient. Our strategy includes a

request for proposals that the Ontario Power Authority has released for up to 1,000 megawatts of new cogeneration projects, and I expect we'll be announcing the results of that very shortly.

We've also announced a program to provide incentives for up to 250 megawatts of demand response. I remind the third party that they opposed demand response programs in this House not too long ago for

companies. The OPA's cogen RFP is intended to encourage the development of a significant amount of combined heat and power projects, while at the same time ensuring that they're economical for the province. In addition, OPG's unregulated asset,

the revenue limit, has been extended for yet another year.

This government has moved the way no other government anywhere has moved to protect those industries. The job is not done. Thanks to members like the member for Sault Ste. Marie --

The Speaker: Thank you, Minister. New question.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mr. John Tory (Leader of the Opposition): My question is for the Premier. We hear reference over and over again to a shortage of emergency room physicians and, in fact, when I tour the

emergency rooms, as recently as this morning, and in talking to people who are in that part of the profession, they indicate that a big part of the problem is people who are leaving emergency rooms, who are working there, who are family

practitioners, who choose not to spend any time there anymore. When I asked these very same people, on my tours and this morning, what the number one recommendation is in order to stop these people from leaving and maybe get some of them back,

they say, "Get the people who have been admitted to the hospital out of the emergency room and into a hospital bed."

The minister has a lot to say about old history on acute care beds. You could resolve that problem with the stroke of a pen tomorrow morning if you chose to do so. Why won't you do it? You've been in

government for three years. Start accepting some responsibility for this.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): The Minister of Health.

Hon. George Smitherman (Deputy Premier, Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): Firstly, to the honourable member, the circumstances are clear that we need more doctors to work in our

emergency rooms, and one of the programs that we've instituted with the College of Physicians and Surgeons, where they've operated more recently --

Mr. Frank Klees (Oak Ridges): More beds.

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: Yes, I know you know a lot about beds, because you closed 22% of the beds that we had. And you know very well, sir, because of the construction crane that's on site at

your local hospital, that more beds are on the way for York Central Hospital in Richmond Hill.

The point is that we have to grow the pie, that is, of the number of doctors who can work there, and one of those things that we're doing is working with the colleges to train more doctors to do so. The

reality is that acute care beds have been reduced by 22%. We work to rebuild those through the investment stream that we're making with our partners at the Ministry of Public Infrastructure Renewal. We've offered more than 5,000 additional

long-term-care beds since we came to office.

The answer to these challenges cannot be found alone in growing the size of our hospitals, but rather in aligning the appropriate services at the community level. The honourable member's suggestion that this

can be dealt with simply by writing a letter demonstrates his complete naïveté.

Mr. Tory: The fact of the matter is that there are hospitals that have the physical space today and in fact have beds that aren't open that could be open. The Minister of Finance reports that

you're awash in cash all of a sudden, by the way, gone from a $1-billion deficit to a $300-million surplus. The fact is that these emergency room people tell me they will not examine people sitting in a chair, that they'd rather phone the

insurance company first before they practise medicine in those kinds of conditions because they find it an unacceptable way to practise emergency room medicine. Why don't you stop blaming everybody else, and start taking some responsibility? Open

some of the beds that you could open that exist that aren't funded today, and relieve some of the pressure that they say is caused by your failure to act. That's what they say, not me.

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: I will not stand and take responsibility for the inaction of that party, but we will take the steps to address these long-standing problems in Ontario's health care

system. They were, sir, manufactured under your watch. You continue to offer these simple bromides that fall apart on the most simple circumstance. You say that all you've got to do is write a little letter and all these beds will magically open,

when the reality is that through their inaction, as they sat on their hands and watched the train wreck occurring before their eyes, they did not make the efforts to produce a sufficiency of the health human resources who, at the heart of things,

provide the loving care that we're all talking about here. The honourable member, who likes big buildings, has decided that opening more hospital beds is the answer. But he has no answer for the circumstances created by his party, while he was a

prominent player in the backroom, to deprive Ontario of a sufficiency of doctors.

EDUCATION FUNDING

Mr. Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): Last night you met with trustees and parents of the Dufferin-Peel Catholic District School Board in an attempt to intimidate them into making cuts in

the classroom.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Order. I need to be able to hear the member for Trinity-Spadina place his question, and when he has started to place his question, I still need to be able

to hear it. As soon as I sit down, I hear the noise again. That should not happen. It's not fair to the member. It doesn't provide any respect for the member and for his question. The member for Trinity-Spadina.

Mr. Marchese: I would remind MPPs that I was there until 10 o'clock, and oh, you tried to word it in nice, feel-good language, but the message was clear: Make the cuts or lose your jobs. Your

government supervisor has proposed a budget that would cut reading recovery programs, close outdoor education centres, cut special education, defer desperately needed maintenance, cancel busing, close schools, and more. Would the minister stand

here today and tell students and their parents which of these cuts the McGuinty government is going to make?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne (Minister of Education): It's been said about me that it would be good if I could be more intimidating, because what I actually did last night was that I went to build a

relationship with this board. I think that 90% of politics is having a good working relationship with the people you need to work with. So that's why I went to the board. In fact, we had a very reasonable conversation. The trustees acknowledged

that they were very happy that I had come there. I was following on the good work that had been done by the previous Minister of Education and the Minister of Education before that. The fact is that we have put $128 million into the Dufferin-Peel

Catholic District School Board. We've been working with that board for over a year. The staff have done a very good job in terms of looking at their budget and trying to come up with the efficiencies that they need. They know that the time is

running out. The longer we go on without a balanced budget in place, the larger the deficit is, and --

The Speaker: Thank you. Supplementary.

Mr. Marchese: In 2002, you launched a court challenge claiming that forcing trustees to make budget cuts violated the Charter of Rights. In 2006, you're trying to intimidate boards into doing

exactly what you opposed. I guess this is the re-education of Kathleen Wynne. Look, why can't you simply admit that Dalton McGuinty has failed to keep his promise, admit that it is wrong to deprive students of remedial reading and clean schools,

and announce that you will not be forcing any board to make cuts until the Conservative education funding formula has been fixed?

Hon. Ms. Wynne: Let's get this straight: When I was a trustee on the Toronto District School Board, I dealt with neither Gerard Kennedy nor Sandra Pupatello nor me. I was dealing with people

who didn't believe in publicly funded education, I was dealing with people who believed in private education, and that is why --

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. The member for Oak Ridges and the member for Trinity-Spadina will come to order.

Interjections.

The Speaker: I can wait. Order. I need to be able to hear the Minister of Education respond. Minister.

Hon. Ms. Wynne: What we've been doing since we were elected is changing the funding formula. We've invested more to increase the benchmarks. We have fundamentally changed the funding formula.

We've put in a school foundation grant that was not there before. It is a work in progress. That is what we talked about at Dufferin-Peel last night. And I make no apology for trying to establish and continue a collaborative working relationship

with trustees. I believe that school trustees should be in control of their boards. I believe that's in the best interests of children. We will continue to work on the funding formula and continue to make investments to keep those school boards in

charge of their boards.

FREEDOM OF INFORMATION

Ms. Monique M. Smith (Nipissing): My question is for the Minister of Government Services. Since taking office, I know that our government has shown a real commitment to building a more open

and transparent government for all Ontarians. The Information and Privacy Commissioner reported that the former government had a dismal record when it came to access to information. I know that's what motivated the Premier to immediately respond

to privacy commissioner Ann Cavoukian's 2004 annual report with a letter to ministries urging everyone to work to build a more open and transparent government.

Minister, as you know, this week is the first Right to Know Week in Canada. It is meant to help focus attention on an individual's right of access to government-held information and open and transparent

government. What is our government doing to make it more open and transparent for all Ontarians?

Hon. Gerry Phillips (Minister of Government Services): I thank the member. I'm pleased to say we've got a strong record of achievement in public sector transparency and accountability, and

really led by our Premier. It was very early on in our mandate when the Premier sent a letter to all ministers and deputies, to use his words, "highlighting the vital importance of the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act."

It was just three weeks ago that he sent another letter to all ministers and deputies saying, "Although we've made great strides in improving turnaround times for FOI requests, there's still room for

improvement. I'd like to emphasize again the importance of answering every request in a timely manner."

We are making progress. This is the Information and Privacy Commissioner's press release on her annual report. What she said there was, "Provincial ministries" -- and this was just a few months ago -- "were

praised by the commissioner for a dramatic improvement in their 30-day-response compliance rate. Overall, ministries achieved an 80.1% compliance rate -- a significant increase" -- significant improvement -- "and the highest compliance rate in 17

years." We are making good progress.

Ms. Smith: Minister, there has been some recent media attention regarding access to information and some criticism on the ability of the public to access government documents through the

freedom of information process. This is a very serious matter. There is no doubt that we must continually work to improve openness and transparency in government, and the people of Ontario deserve our very best efforts. I recognize, as you've

noted, that in the Information and Privacy Commissioner's report, we've seen rates go from 39% in 1996 to more than 80% in the annual report of 2005.

Minister, how has this government improved access, and what are some of the other ways that we are working to improve access?

Hon. Mr. Phillips: Again, I would just re-emphasize what the member just said and the importance that we do place on information. The Premier himself has put a high priority on this with a

clear direction to all of us.

But we continue to look for more ways to improve. You may recall we brought in, just in the past few months, freedom of information legislation governing our publicly funded universities. The Fiscal

Transparency and Accountability Act is really groundbreaking in terms of information, making sure that the province's books, before an election, are scrutinized by our Auditor General. Hydro One and Ontario Power Generation brought back in, under

the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act; local public utilities, brought back in. The audit statute amendments give our Auditor General important access to some of our other public sector organizations, like the school boards and

hospitals.

So the Premier has been encouraging us, or ordering the ministries, to make sure that we are complying to the best of our ability. But we also may take other significant steps, to make sure all of the

organization is as open as possible.

NATIVE LAND DISPUTE

Mr. Robert W. Runciman (Leeds-Grenville): I have a question for the Premier. Yesterday, our leader, John Tory, asked you about the ongoing costs associated with the illegal occupation of land

in Caledonia. As you typically do, you refused to answer.

Today, I'd like to ask you about one specific cost and see if you'll give us the honour of an answer. Premier, are taxpayers picking up the cost of supplying hydro and water to the occupied site and, if yes,

why?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): To the minister.

Hon. David Ramsay (Minister of Natural Resources, minister responsible for aboriginal affairs): I do know that when the occupation had happened originally back in February, the local power

provider had kept the power on in the houses that were there. It is my understanding that that power is still on. Once the transfer would have occurred to the province, at this time it would be the responsibility of the province.

Mr. Runciman: I think that was a yes. The minister yesterday, as well, when asked about the $55 million and counting already spent at Caledonia, very cavalierly said it will "cost what it

costs." I think you should have added, "It's only tax dollars and I'm a Liberal. What do you expect?"

Minister, a few weeks ago your Premier said occupation of the site over the winter was unacceptable. Now you're paying the hydro and supplying the water. You've collapsed on conditions before, and you're

collapsing again. How can the good people of Caledonia ever hope to see a resolution of this matter when you continue to display weakness and lack of fortitude? How can they ever expect a resolution?

Hon. Mr. Ramsay: I think the member knows -- he's been in government previously -- that sometimes the responsibilities come to we who are in government. He's had that challenge also, that you

have to step up to the plate and you have to face it. I'm very proud of the McGuinty government's approach to this particular situation.

In June, when we're in the midst of this and we're all working, and I'm asking for your assistance to help us solve this and to do this in a very cost-effective manner, your leader says, "Let's have a public

inquiry and spend $20 million to $50 million to study this and ask questions." We're investing money for solutions, not just for asking questions.

AIR QUALITY

Ms. Andrea Horwath (Hamilton East): My question is for the Minister of the Environment. On August 30, I sent you a letter marked "Urgent" concerning greasy, black soot that rained down on

Hamilton East several times this past summer. Homes and property were covered with sticky carbon emissions that we now know were contaminated with mineral dust, coal dust, coke, soot, black rubber, iron ore particles, magnetic iron particles and

traces of paint. You have been stone silent about the damage, the cleanup costs and the impact on human health. In my letter, I requested that you hold a public meeting immediately.

Minister, why do you not bother to respond to my urgent letter and why have you been invisible on this file?

Hon. Laurel C. Broten (Minister of the Environment): I would suggest that the member opposite pay attention to the work that's been done in her community by the Ministry of the

Environment.

On September 6, ministry staff met with several residents to discuss their issues and concerns. Ministry staff explained that they had conducted site visits on July 30 at both the initial properties and

visited several other properties in the following days to assess the fallout. They contacted parks and recreation to report the fallout on play structures, and the city cleaned that up to ensure the safety and security of the community. The

residents were notified of the results of studies that are being undertaken. On August 9 to 11, samples were taken. A letter was provided on August 24, and a copy of those results was provided to you on August 25.

So perhaps the member opposite might want to pay attention to the work that's being done in her community and the actions that are being taken by the Ministry of the Environment.

Ms. Horwath: Minister, you need to pay attention to the voices of the people in my community who still don't know what the source of that contamination was. That's the very issue that you

refuse to respond to to the people of Hamilton East, and you know darned well that's the case.

When the Harris government dismantled the ministry's east-end monitoring station in Hamilton and shifted the job of air-quality monitoring to the private sector, McGuinty Liberals howled in this House, but now

this government, for three years, has done nothing at all to rectify that problem and restart an east-end monitoring system in the east end of Hamilton.

Will you agree here today, Minister -- so that you can figure out where the soot came from -- to hold public meetings and tell the people of Hamilton directly where that soot came from, as well as reinstate

the monitoring system in the east end of Hamilton under public watch?

Hon. Ms. Broten: As the member should also be well aware, McMaster University's chemistry department is currently analyzing the samples in an attempt to locate, isolate and identify the source

of soot. The environmental monitoring and reporting branch is also undertaking an analysis of where to place the mobile monitoring survey unit so that we can best detect where this material is coming from.

Again, if the member was aware of the reality in her community, she would know that the unit that has been relocated was not providing information to the community.

A

summary report of all this extensive scientific analysis that needs to be undertaken is going to be completed in very short order. We are working very closely with the community to respond to their concerns

in a co-operative and consultative approach by working with all of the experts in the Hamilton community, including those who best know the air quality, including the Hamilton Air Monitoring Network and the Hamilton Industrial Environmental

Association. Stakeholders --

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you. The Minister of Health Promotion will come to order.

CLEANUP OF BROWNFIELDS

Mr. Dave Levac (Brant): My question is for the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing. As you know, brownfields are a major concern in my riding and many ridings in Ontario. Locally, many

investors, developers, all the stakeholders, including the lead of the city of Brantford, have come together to clean up and then redevelop abandoned brownfield properties. This is a good thing to do.

Citizens in my riding are concerned because brownfield properties attract vandalism and illegal activities and are an unattractive element to neighbourhoods in which people have lived all their lives. My

constituents are also concerned about property values in the neighbouring areas, negative health impacts and environmental effects.

Brownfields can be found in all Ontario communities, big and small, urban and rural. Brownfield redevelopment is a critical path to building a stronger, healthier community. Minister, I believe that

redeveloping unused former industrial or commercial sites will help revitalize neighbourhoods and create jobs and housing in my community and many others. What can I tell my constituents about our government and what they're doing about these

concerned pieces of --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): The question's been asked. Minister?

Hon. John Gerretsen (Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing): Let me first of all say that this member has been a champion of getting the brownfields in his community totally cleaned up

over the last three to four years that we've been in government. It's certainly the policy of this government to see as many brownfield areas in communities large and small throughout this province cleaned up as quickly as possible. It's a win-win

situation: It's a win for the municipality, it's a win for the community, the contaminated site gets redeveloped, and taxation dollars can come from that.

What we've done is we've appointed a brownfields coordinator to basically provide a one-window-access approach to government to those interested in brownfield redevelopment. You may recall that last year our

government introduced a brownfields financial tax incentive program which basically provides tax assistance to landowners in order to encourage the environmental rehabilitation. The rules for cleaning up the sites have also been clarified, and

property owners have been given protection from the imposition --

The Speaker: Thank you. There may be a supplementary.

Mr. Levac: Speaker, you can count on it. I deeply appreciate the opportunity in what our government is doing. I know we are planning to do even more, and I look forward to that day when we can

tell all of our communities that we've got a handle on brownfields. So I appreciate that.

I'm glad to hear that the government understands. In the need for brownfield redevelopment, it's a win for absolutely everyone. We know that redeveloping brownfields revitalizes inner-city cores and

discourages urban sprawl. It fits into our program of urban development and rural development, it fits into Places to Grow, it stops us from using agricultural land and it also stops us from developing sensitive environmental areas. However, I

have heard concerns from my constituents about the safety of brownfield lands that may be used for residential or commercial growth. Minister, what are you doing to ensure that the safety of our citizens is moving forward in the spaces for this

infill rather than allowing urban sprawl, and making sure our environment is safe for the people who will be using those facilities once we start cleaning them up?

Hon. Mr. Gerretsen: I'll refer that part of the question to the Minister of the Environment.

Hon. Laurel C. Broten (Minister of the Environment): I certainly agree wholeheartedly that the redevelopment of brownfield sites can help revitalize communities like the member's and like my

own in Etobicoke-Lakeshore. But at the same time, we have to be absolutely sure that we ensure these sites are cleaned up in a way that protects human health and the environment now and to the future. We have some very strict cleanup standards for

redeveloping brownfield sites and even stricter standards if a site is going to be used for a house, a school, a park or a playground.

We are also concerned about the water that might flow beneath these sites, and we require cleanup to the province's very high water quality standards. We have legal tools to require that actions be taken for

effects off-site, and we need to be absolutely clear that the protection of human health and the environment is the absolute primary concern of the Ministry of the Environment, as we at the same time encourage the redevelopment of brownfield

sites, because that too is good for the environment.

PETITIONS

TENANT PROTECTION

Mr. John O'Toole (Durham): It's a pleasure to get an opportunity to present with respect this petition to the Legislature.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"We, the undersigned citizens of Ontario, draw the attention of the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to the following:

"That, in the landlord-tenant tribunal hearing, mail service in a rental agreement is not considered a vital service;

"Therefore, your petitioners respectfully request that the Legislative Assembly of Ontario revise the Landlord and Tenant Act to include mail as a vital service in a rental agreement, when so many receive

government-issued cheques, benefit cards and notices vital to their ability to cover the cost of living."

I'm pleased to sign and endorse this and present it to Breanna on behalf of my constituents in the riding of Durham.

ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE

Mr. Tony Ruprecht (Davenport): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario which reads as follows:

"Whereas the people of Ontario deserve a universal, high-quality public health care system; and

"Whereas numerous studies have shown that the best health care is that which is delivered close to home; and

"Whereas the McGuinty government is working to increase Ontarians' access to family doctors through the introduction of family health teams that allow doctors to serve their communities more effectively;

and

"Whereas the McGuinty government has fulfilled its promise to create new family health teams to bring more doctors to more Ontario families;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to support the McGuinty government's efforts to improve access to family doctors through innovative programs like family health teams."

Since I agree, I am delighted to sign this petition.

WATER QUALITY

Ms. Laurie Scott (Haliburton-Victoria-Brock): "Amend the Clean Water Act

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas every Ontarian wants the best water quality possible; and

"Whereas the goal of clean water can be achieved effectively through amendments to existing legislation; and

"Whereas the McGuinty Liberals are determined to hammer through the flawed legislation known as the Clean Water Act; and

"Whereas the McGuinty Liberals have failed to put in place adequate, stable, long-term funding into the bill; and

"Whereas the McGuinty Liberals have failed to effectively address the numerous problems in the bill; and

"Whereas rural Ontario stands to suffer significantly under this poorly-thought-out policy;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"To not pass Bill 43 (the Clean Water Act) until proper funding and amendments are in place."

It was signed by many people at the International Plowing Match in Peterborough county last week.

CHILD CUSTODY

Mr. Kim Craitor (Niagara Falls): I'm pleased to introduce this petition on behalf of a number of residents from Welland, like Sheila Volchert and Josh Snider. The petition reads as

follows:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the people of the province of Ontario deserve and have the right to request an amendment to the Children's Law Reform Act to emphasize the importance of children's relationships with their parents and

their grandparents; and

"Whereas subsection 20(2.1) requires parents and others with custody of children to refrain from unreasonably placing obstacles to personal relations between the children and their grandparents; and

"Whereas subsection 24(2) contains a list of matters that a court must consider when determining the best interests of a child. The bill amends that subsection to include a specific reference to the importance

of maintaining emotional ties between children and grandparents; and

"Whereas subsection 24(2.1) requires a court that is considering custody of or access to a child to give effect to the principle that a child should have as much contact with each parent and grandparent as is

consistent with the best interests of the child.

"Subsection 24(2.2) requires a court that is considering custody of a child to take into consideration each applicant's willingness to facilitate as much contact between the child and each parent and

grandparent as is consistent with the best interests of the child."

And

whereas we support Bill 8, as introduced by the member from Niagara Falls;

"We, the undersigned, hereby petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to amend the Children's Law Reform Act to emphasize the importance of children's relationships with their parents and

grandparents."

I'm pleased to sign my signature in support of this bill.

SCHOOL NUTRITION PROGRAMS

Mr. John O'Toole (Durham): I believe this process of petitions is very important to give voice to the people of Ontario. As follows, the petition reads:

"Whereas recent scientific research has proven there is a link between children's nutrition and academic performance; and

"Whereas less than 25% of Canadian children eat in accordance with Canada's food guidelines; and

"Whereas Breakfast for Learning, the Canadian Living Foundation, is the only national non-profit organization solely dedicated to supporting children's nutrition programs in Canada; and

"Whereas the need for nutrition programs in schools has more than doubled, resulting in grant requests that far exceed the level of funding received from the Ontario provincial government;

"I/we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to commit" the Liberal "government to support children's nutrition programs by increasing funding to Breakfast for Learning, the Canadian

Living Foundation, from $4.5 million to $9 million, as requested in their submission to the minister."

I'm pleased to endorse this and present this to Julia on behalf of the constituents in the riding of Durham.

IDENTITY THEFT

Mr. Tony Ruprecht (Davenport): I do keep receiving petitions from the Consumer Federation of Canada, which takes this issue very seriously. The petition is addressed to the Parliament of

Ontario and the Minister of Government Services. It reads as follows:

"Whereas identity theft is the fastest-growing crime in North America;

"Whereas confidential and private information is being stolen on a regular basis, affecting literally thousands of people;

"Whereas the cost of this crime exceeds billions of dollars;

"Whereas countless hours are wasted to restore one's good credit rating;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, demand that Bill 38, which passed the second reading unanimously in the Ontario Legislature on December 8, 2005, be brought before committee and that the following issues be

included for consideration and debate:

"

(1) All consumer reports should be provided in a truncated (masked-out) form, protecting our vital private information, such as SIN and loan account numbers.

"

(2) Should a consumer reporting agency discover that there has been an unlawful disclosure of consumer information, the agency should immediately inform the affected consumer.

"

(3) The consumer reporting agency shall only report credit-inquiry records resulting from actual applications for credit or increase of credit, except in a report given to the consumer.

"

(4) The consumer reporting agency shall investigate disputed information within 30 days and correct, supplement or automatically delete any information found unconfirmed, incomplete or inaccurate."

Since I agree, I'm delighted to sign this petition as well.

PROPERTY RIGHTS

Mr. Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): I have a petition regarding property rights.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms is silent on property rights; and

"Whereas the Alberta Bill of Rights specifically protects the right to the enjoyment of property; and

"Whereas the Quebec Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms provides that `Every person has a right to the peaceful enjoyment and free disposition of his property, except to the extent provided by law'; and

"Whereas ownership rights should not be abridged or usurped without due process of law; and

"Whereas owners of all lands affected by expropriation should have the right to be included as parties to a required inquiry to consider the merits of the objectives of the expropriating authority; and

"Whereas the decision of an expropriating authority should be subject to judicial review; and

"Whereas, subject to specific limitations of law, the right to peaceful enjoyment of one's land must be recognized by Ontario law;

"We, the undersigned, petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"To pass Bill 57, the Land Rights and Responsibilities Act, 2006."

I support this petition.

MACULAR DEGENERATION

Mr. Kim Craitor (Niagara Falls): I'm pleased to introduce the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the government of Ontario's health insurance plan covers treatments for one form of macular degeneration (wet), and there are other forms of macular degeneration (dry) that are not covered,

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"There are thousands of Ontarians who suffer from macular degeneration, resulting in loss of sight if treatment is not pursued. Treatment costs for this disease are astronomical for most" individuals "and add

a financial burden to their lives. Their only alternative is loss of sight. We believe the government of Ontario should cover treatment for all forms of macular degeneration through the Ontario health insurance program."

I am pleased to sign my signature in support of this petition.

CHILD CUSTODY

Mrs. Christine Elliott (Whitby-Ajax): I have a petition on behalf of Cangrand.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the people of the province of Ontario deserve and have the right to request an amendment to the Children's Law Reform Act to emphasize the importance of children's relationships with their parents and

their grandparents; and

"Whereas subsection 20(2.1) requires parents and others with custody of children to refrain from unreasonably placing obstacles to personal relations between the children and their grandparents; and

"Whereas subsection 24(2) contains a list of matters that a court must consider when determining the best interests of a child. The bill amends that subsection to include a specific reference to the importance

of maintaining emotional ties between children and grandparents; and

"Whereas subsection 24(2.1) requires a court that is considering custody of or access to a child to give effect to the principle that a child should have as much contact with each parent and their grandparent

as is consistent with the best interests of the child.

"Subsection 24(2.2) requires a court that is considering custody of a child to take into consideration each applicant's willingness to facilitate as much contact between the child and each parent and

grandparent as is consistent with the best interests of the child.

"We, the undersigned, hereby petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to amend the Children's Law Reform Act to emphasize the importance of children's relationships with their parents and

grandparents."

I'm pleased to affix my signature in support of this petition and to provide it to Dominic.

PROPERTY RIGHTS

Mr. Gerry Martiniuk (Cambridge): I have a petition on protection of property rights.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms is silent on property rights; and

"Whereas the Alberta Bill of Rights specifically protects the right to the enjoyment of property; and

"Whereas the Quebec Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms provides that `Every person has a right to the peaceful enjoyment and free disposition of his property, except to the extent provided by law'; and

"Whereas ownership rights should not be abridged or usurped without due process of law; and

"Whereas owners of all lands affected by expropriation should have the right to be included as parties to a required inquiry to consider the merits of the objectives of the expropriating authority; and

"Whereas the decision of an expropriating authority should be subject to judicial review; and

"Whereas subject to specific limitations of law, the right to peaceful enjoyment of one's land must be recognized by Ontario law;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"To pass Bill 57, the Land Rights and Responsibilities Act, 2006."

As I agree with the petition, I affix my signature thereto.

LONG-TERM CARE

Mr. John Milloy (Kitchener Centre): I have a petition here from the Forest Heights Long Term Care facility about care within long-term care. It says:

"We, the undersigned, who are members of family councils, residents' councils and/or supporters of long-term care in Ontario, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to increase operating funding to

long-term-care homes by $306.6 million, which will allow the hiring of more staff to provide an additional 20 minutes of care per resident per day over the next two years (2006 and 2007)."

PROPERTY RIGHTS

Mr. Frank Klees (Oak Ridges): This petition is presented to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms is silent on property rights; and

"Whereas the Alberta Bill of Rights specifically protects the right to the enjoyment of property; and

"Whereas the Quebec Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms provides that `Every person has a right to the peaceful enjoyment and free disposition of his property, except to the extent provided by law'; and

"Whereas ownership rights should not be abridged or usurped without due process of law; and

"Whereas owners of all lands affected by expropriation should have the right to be included as parties to a required inquiry to consider the merits of the objectives of the expropriating authority; and

"Whereas the decision of an expropriating authority should be subject to judicial review; and

"Whereas subject to specific limitations of law, the right to peaceful enjoyment of one's land must be recognized by Ontario law;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"To pass Bill 57, the Land Rights and Responsibilities Act, 2006."

I'm pleased to affix my signature to this petition, and I present it to page Sarah to present to the table.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

TRADITIONAL CHINESE

MEDICINE ACT, 2006 /

LOI DE 2006 SUR LES PRATICIENNES

ET PRATICIENS EN MÉDECINE

TRADITIONNELLE CHINOISE

Mr. Smitherman moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill 50,

An Act respecting the regulation of the profession of traditional Chinese medicine, and making complementary amendments to certain Acts / Projet de loi 50, Loi concernant la réglementation

de la profession de praticienne ou de praticien en médecine traditionnelle chinoise et apportant des modifications complémentaires à certaines lois.

Hon. George Smitherman (Deputy Premier, Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I'd just like to indicate at the beginning that I have the privilege today of sharing my leadoff time with three

members of the Legislature who participated in the development of a report that has led to this piece of legislation: my colleague the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration, my colleague the member for Ottawa Centre and my colleague the member

for Mississauga East. I want to thank them for their work.

I really want to thank the honourable member from Niagara Centre, who's heckling from outside his seat, and I want to welcome to the gallery Professor Cedric Cheung and others from the traditional Chinese

medicine community who have been such passionate supporters of the work we're doing.

I just want to very candidly acknowledge from the get-go something that the people who are following the issue of traditional Chinese medicine would be aware of, here at the Legislature of Ontario today. We

know, of course, that across the province of Ontario, hundreds of thousands of individuals -- some on a consistent basis and others perhaps only from time to time -- are taking advantage of the services of acupuncture and traditional Chinese

medicine. We know as well, from the work that these members did, and in the response to the legislation we presented and, indeed, from the historic circumstances of the debate in British Columbia, that it is very, very difficult to brook the

divide that does exist between those practitioners I might describe as more traditionalist and those who have added acupuncture as a service in addition to the work they do as regulated health professionals.

You will hear more through the course of this debate and perhaps from the opposition party -- if, after one year, they can actually find the time to take a position, that is. You will find some who say it's

necessary to bring these two positions together. We've worked hard to be able to do so, but at the end of the day a fundamental impasse has occurred, and I think it's crucial I speak to that very specifically today.

It was said, as I understand it, in a press conference organized here earlier today, sponsored by the honourable member from Kitchener, that individuals would not support the legislation -- did not recommend

the legislation -- because it was placing patients of the province of Ontario at risk.

We believe fundamentally that the work that was done here in the early 1990s to create regulated health professions in a variety of areas, and to establish alongside those colleges with the principles of

self-governance intact, and appropriate measures respecting training and compliance with educational standards -- and indeed, all of those opportunities for patients to raise queries, questions and concerns to colleges -- are part of the

foundation that should give appropriate confidence that if a physiotherapist or a chiropractor is appropriately trained, they, too, should enjoy the privilege of being able to deliver services, including acupuncture. I have received acupuncture on

a number of occasions from a physiotherapist. I do so with considerable confidence.

I understand, of course, that inherent in this debate is the desire on the part of those who have been long-standing practitioners of traditional Chinese medicine that we not look past the vast experience that

they have; that we not misunderstand the cultural training and education that they have, which does equip them very, very well to be able to deliver those services as well. We believe fundamentally that we should move forward with the regulation

of traditional Chinese medicine, because we know that hundreds of thousands of people in the province have decided that these services are good for them and, accordingly, we are obligated as a government to ensure that the protections that are

there for them are strong.

But I offer this assurance. I understand the distinction that exists on the issue of whether other regulated health practitioners should be allowed to deliver acupuncture services, and I respectfully do not

agree with those who say, "No, they should not," that is it is not possible to offer the assurance of safety to our patients. I don't agree with that position. At the same time, I do feel strenuously compelled to work hard to try and make the

point to those more traditional providers that we understand fundamentally that their long history and education must be appropriately respected. We have worked hard to give assurances that that will be the case.

We took the consultation report that involved my colleagues working very hard, being open, meeting with people and taking their depositions, and that informed a report which subsequently was presented to me as

minister, and that has informed the piece of legislation that stands in my name and that I am very, very proud to be speaking about today. It's designed to ensure that TCM and acupuncture, as with every other facet of our health care system, is

delivered in a safe way. The highly skilled and trained women and men who work in this field have the right to regulate their profession -- and that is incorporated here -- and to demonstrate their qualifications to the public by being able to use

the title "doctor."

We all know the discussion of doctors is one that is very relevant in our everyday lives and here on the floor of the Legislature today. We know that in our communities it is a title that is reserved for those

who have accomplished a very particular, impressive feat. These are learned people and they appropriately enjoy a degree of respect in our communities that, as a politician, I sometimes leave myself only hoping for. That privilege is a

demonstration of the degree to which we feel fundamentally that practitioners of traditional Chinese medicine deserve the right to call themselves doctors.

In the circumstances where a person is a physiotherapist or a chiropractor who is also delivering services related to acupuncture, they would not have the privilege of being able to use that title unless they

had worked through the College of Traditional Chinese Medicine in the same way as those long-standing traditional practitioners. We think that this is a very crucial bit of evidence about the degree to which we believe fundamentally in the quality

of the health care that can be provided by these individuals.

I mentioned at the outset, or perhaps it was in my media scrum just a few minutes ago, that we are the second province to undertake this initiative. You know, one might have predicted at the outset of a

discussion about traditional Chinese medicine that the debate that did ensue, and the division which has occurred around the best way to go forward, I believe, does mirror quite closely the same divisions and debate that occurred in British

Columbia as they sought to move forward on this basis. It's not to say that we blindly follow where others have gone, but on the issue of traditional Chinese medicine, the British Columbia model has offered us good information about some of the

best ways that we can look at being able to move forward. In order to be an acupuncturist, an individual would have to register with the college and, in the case where other health professionals are offering these services, like chiropractors and

physiotherapists, this could only be done in keeping with the scope of practice identified for those individuals. The bill is consistent with the Regulated Health Professions Act, and we must keep in mind, again, on this point of safety, that

those other practitioners do have very intense certification and qualification associated with their regulated health profession and the college.

As well, as we sought and looked at the literature -- as they say, as we looked to the worldwide landscape for some guidance in terms of how we might move forward -- we did very closely look at the World

Health Organization. I believe that people who are learned on this subject would confirm that the model for the bill that we brought forward is consistent with the information, consistent with the World Health Organization's position on these

various matters.

I want, just in the last minute or so, to conclude with a few more words of thanks. We had the privilege as a political party of campaigning on this initiative in the election campaign of 2003. I remember

decidedly a number of constituents of mine who saw that initiative and had excitement associated with it. As I said at the outset, we're very, very proud of the privilege of being able to move forward on this initiative. We believe that this bill

strikes a very good balance between the perspectives that are there, and I fully acknowledge those perspectives. I've sought and worked as hard as I could to understand them and I believe that the resolutions that we found are the very best

resolutions that we can offer to the people of the province of Ontario, although I am candid and admit that they do not, at present, enjoy the unanimous support of all. It has been the suggestion of the official opposition, in a press release or

quotation today, that a bill that was presented to this Legislature on December 7 of last year does still not yet enjoy from them an opinion. There was a suggestion as well by quotation that they thought that until such time as consensus had

formed, it was not appropriate to move forward. I don't believe that the consensus, which is obviously desired, is achievable in this circumstance necessarily, but I do want to say that, as every other bill that I've had the privilege of moving

into this legislative chamber has enjoyed public hearings, I rather suspect that through the good offices of the government House leader and the co-operation of opposition House leaders, we will provide even further opportunity in another format

for MPPs, members of a committee of the Legislature, to hear from the people of the province of Ontario and to offer whatever view they might towards improvement of the bill.

To all of those that have participated in bringing us to this point, I just want to thank them one more time and acknowledge the pride that I have in bringing this forward and to encourage everyone to take

part in this debate and to look forward to a day very soon when we can offer a very high standard to the people of the province of Ontario, offer doctors of traditional Chinese medicine and offer to the people of the province a very firm

indication of our desire to see other forms of health care available and offered to people in a fashion which, at the very heart of it, offers them appropriate protections.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Michael Prue): I have to ask, are you sharing your time? I see several people standing.

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: I did say at the beginning that I'd be sharing my time with three members.

The Acting Speaker: Three members. The member from Mississauga East.

Mr. Peter Fonseca (Mississauga East): It gives me great pleasure to speak after my colleague the Minister of Health, George Smitherman, and with the other colleagues who travelled around the

province: Minister Mike Colle, MPP Richard Patten and MPP Tony Wong. We got a chance to meet with hundreds of stakeholders across the province, in many different communities, to be able to make this piece of legislation the best possible, learning

from other jurisdictions like British Columbia, the only other province that has regulated traditional Chinese medicine.

I'm going to give you just a short anecdotal story here about my own experience with traditional Chinese medicine and how it cured me and really helped me make my way to the Olympic starting line in the

marathon. This should have been around 20 years ago when I was competing as a long-distance runner on Canada's national team, because I hurt my Achilles tendon; for anybody here, your Achilles tendon is just above your ankle. I went to my regular

doctors and specialists trying to get this fixed, and I needed it fixed as soon as possible so I could get back to training. But it stayed inflamed, and the inflammation would not go down. There's very little blood that gets to that area in your

body, so I took many anti-inflammatories -- for those who haven't taken them, they affect your stomach a lot -- and they just weren't working.

Then I read a magazine, and I saw that some European distance runners were accessing traditional Chinese medicine where it had been regulated. Well, I searched and searched and really couldn't find somebody

whom I would have assurance in who would be able to perform something that I was not used to, which was acupuncture. I did go down to Chinatown and spoke to different people but still did not have those assurances. Finally, I did contact somebody

in the United States, and they put me in contact with somebody here whom they knew had performed acupuncture and had gotten the type of results that I was looking for. I did go meet this individual in downtown Toronto, actually at Bathurst and

Bloor. After many months of not being able to train, I started an acupuncture treatment with this person and, within a couple of weeks, I was out again on the road training and being able to race within a couple of months.

Mr. Jeff Leal (Peterborough): Back on track.

Mr. Fonseca: Back on track. So this has been needed for a long time. It is great.

What I'm saying is that Western medicine works in many instances, but this Minister of Health, George Smitherman, and our government see that innovative, non-Western, non-traditional -- as we see traditional

-- medicines have to come into play so that people can access those for their betterment. It worked in my case, as I'm sure this will work in thousands of cases. Now others won't have to jump through the hoops, because once this profession is

regulated, they will have the assurances that those who run through this college will have the expertise, the hours, the training that will be needed to assess and diagnose somebody who has an ailment, and how they can best use the profession of

traditional Chinese medicine to better that individual. So this will go a long way.

Also on the running front, I'd like to congratulate the Minister of Health, who actually completed the Toronto marathon this past weekend, which was pretty amazing. I think this whole House should know that,

if you don't know that. But I think it was terrific. Also, he raised over $100,000 in that event for charity.

As we listened to the different deputants as we travelled through the province, we kept hearing over and over the type of standards they wanted, and they were those of an excellent level: the many hundreds of

hours of not just theory but also practice, and being able to diagnose and to treat people so they can best cure them.

When we went out there, what came about from the different deputations was that they wanted set standards of practice so there would be set standards that everybody would know about. They wanted to establish

requirements for entry into the profession. This would come about through the college. Number three, they wanted to ensure that members are up to date on recent developments in their field, and four, develop a complaints and discipline process for

members. All this was hashed out through the many people who presented to us.

We did look at what they had done very well in British Columbia, to adopt many of those practices over here to Ontario, as well as taking a broader perspective and seeing where things had not worked out in

British Columbia, to be able to bring better practices here to Ontario.

We are very supportive as a government of alternative medicines, alternative health care. Not everybody finds the best way to better health through traditional methods, and this will bring about that

alternative. It's one step in the direction we should have taken, as I said, many years ago. There are many individuals out there who are frustrated. They can't find help and they don't know where to access these services. They are worried that

anybody and everybody out there can just hang a shingle today and call themselves a traditional Chinese medicine practitioner or be able to say that they do needling or acupuncture, and they may not be doing it in a way that has efficacy. We want

to make sure that the public is safe, but also that the public can, as myself, scout out somebody who is able to perform traditional Chinese medicine and bring about the benefits they are looking for.

We had not only many stakeholders, as far as those who would be practising, but patients, those who had accesse