May 10, 1991 Alberta Hansard 1133 Legislative Assembly of Alberta Title: Friday, May 10, 1991 10:00 a.m. Date: 91/05/10 [Mr. Speaker in the Chair] head: Prayers MR. SPEAKER: Let us pray. O Lord, grant us a daily awareness of the precious gift of life which You have given us. As Members of this Legislative Assembly we dedicate our lives anew to the service of our province and our country. Amen. head: Tabling Returns and Reports MR. KOWALSKI: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to table the response to Written Question 353, which was accepted in the House on May 9, 1991. MR. STEWART: Mr.

Speaker, it's my pleasure to table the 1990 annual report for the Technology, Research and Telecom- munications department. MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, I wish to table a response to Written Questi on 268. It should be of note to members that the government supplies over 40,000 units to low-income seniors in this province. head: Introduction of Special Guests MR. SPEAKER: Member for Banff-Cochrane. MR. EVANS: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

This morning I'm delighted to have an opportunity to introduce to you and through you to the Assembly 48 very enthusiastic and bright young people from Spri ngbank middle school in the Banff-Cochrane constituency. They're all dressed in their band uniforms, and they're accompanied this morning by their teachers Mrs. Moira Thompson and Mr. Pat Worthington and by parents Mr. Tim Anderson, Mrs. Deane Day, and Mrs. Debbie Jewitt. They are seated in the public gallery. I would now ask that they rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of the Assembly. head: Oral Question Period Vocational Schools MS BARRETT: Mr.

Speaker, in 1988 the Computer Career Institute failed as a result of misleading students prior to that point with course names, advertising, claims of equivalencies with other recognized programs, and career prospects for their students. I'll tell you, what those students all had in common at the end of that collapse was between $7,000 and $8,000 of debt with the Students Finance Board, which the minister at that time refused to help alleviate, and the current Minister of Advanced Education has continued to resist helping. Now we find out today that the Mary Bara Academy of business has closed its doors.

Its owner has apparently left the city, and the students appear to be left holding the bag again. I'd like to ask the Advanced Education minister if he and his department were simply asleep at the wheel in failing to monitor this place or if they've got some new and improved excuse for this little fiasco. MR. GOGO: Mr. Speaker, th ere are about 100 private vocational schools in the province. Bara Academy is one. They go through pretty exhaustive criteria in terms of being accredited as a training institution. I became aware of the situation yesterday. There ar e about 24 students involved.

I'm awaiting word now as a result of a meeting between the students of Bara Academy and the Students Finance Board. MS BARRETT: No answer at all, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to point out that in 1988, after the collapse of CCI, the minister at that time, Dave Russell, at least recognized that a change in legislation was needed. He also assured me in the House at the time that regular monitoring of these private vocational schools would be part of the reform that went along with that legislation. I know this minister has been kept up to date, because he's got the old files.

I'd like to ask the minister, knowing as he did since 1988 that this company was on shaky ground, whether or not he was monitoring the situation regu- larly, and if not, why not? MR. GOGO: Mr. Speaker, there have been dramatic changes in policy with the private vocational schools. They're now in a category situation where until they get a track record, student loans from the Alberta Students Finance Board are not approved for their students. They're monitored very closely. I would point out that if an owner of a private vocational school suddenly locks the door, I hope the hon.

Member for Edmonton-Highlands would agree that that's an unusual circumstance. I can assure members of the House that quality in terms of delivering education must be there or student loans would not be approved. I've indicated to the member that I'm looking into it now, and when I'm brought up to date as to where the issues lie with regard to those students, I'll take appropriate action. MS BARRETT: Well, Mr. Speaker, I would like to point out that I did support the legislation that attempted to correct the problem. The problem now is the students left holding the bag.

I'd like to ask the minister if he's now prepared to reverse his policy and tell the former students at CCI, the people who are left without any credentials whatsoever, that they don't have to pay back the student loans, and the same with the students at the Mary Bara. I mean, that's . . . MR. SPEAKER: Thank you. [interjections] Thank you. MR. GOGO: Mr. Speaker, surely there must be some responsi- bility on a student who chooses to attend an institution that's offering education and training requirements. The onus cannot all lie on the government.

I've indicated to the hon. member that I'm looking into that situation now. I'm not fully apprised of where it's at. But let's not for one minute relieve students in this province, many of them mature students, of the responsi- bilities they should incur when they enroll in these private vocational colleges. MR. SPEAKER: Second main question. MS BARRETT: Maybe they can 't get into publicly funded institutions. Maybe that's the problem. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to designate the second question to the Member for Calgary-Forest Lawn. MR. SPEAKER: Calgary-Forest Lawn.

1134 Alberta Hansard May 10, 1991 Economic Policy MR. PASHAK: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. According to the latest stats the unemployment rate in Edmonton is an abysmal 8.6 percent, and Calgary's unemployment rate continues to spiral upwards. In Calgary it's up from last month to 8.3 percent, which is an increase of 25 percent over one year ago. My question is to the Minister of Labour. Is she pleased with these figures? What new programs does she have for these unemployed workers? MS McCOY: Mr. Speaker, of course one can never be pleased when one sees even one person out of work who is available for and wants work.

There's no question that we regret any such circumstances. In terms of programs helping Albertans find jobs, those programs fall under the portfolio of my colleague the Minister of Career Development and Employment, and in terms of economic development, no doubt the Minister of Ec onomic Development and Trade may very well wish to supplement my answer. MR. SPEAKER: Supplementary. MR. PASHAK: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well, this is a sad day in Calgary. Not only has the labour force been decimated by layoffs in the oil patch, but 500 packing house workers at Canada Packers work their last shift today.

My question is to the Minister of Economic Development and Trade. Is the minister prepared to admit that it is his government's policy of providing money on an ad hoc basis to other plants, resulting in chaos in the packing house industry, that has caused Canada Packers to shut down this venerable Calgary institution? MR. ELZINGA: Mr.

Speaker, we answered that question a number of days ago as it related to our involvement in the meat packing industry, whereby I indicated to the hon. member, as did the Minister of Agriculture, that Canada Packers has accessed government programs so they could have f unds passed on to them. All packing industries have accessed government funds, and we've done so to maintain a packing i ndustry in the province of Alberta. We acknowledge that there is going to be a rationalization of this industry.

We wanted to make sure that this industry was maintained in the province of Alberta, and it has been maintained because of our i nvolvement. MR. PASHAK: Mr. Speaker, my final supplementary is to the Acting Premier. Is he now prepared to admit that these layoffs in Calgary are a result of his government's policy of destroying trade unions by subsidizing multinationals to displace established Canadian businesses and then making it virtually impossible for new employees of these corporations to get first contracts? 10:10 MR. HORSMAN: No, Mr. Speaker, that is not the case at all.

Of all the left-wing, socialist cl aptrap, that's one of the finest examples I've heard. That's complete and utter rubbish. Freedom of Information Legislation MR. DECORE: Mr. Speaker, freedom of information legisla- tion exists in almost every jurisdiction in North America today except for a couple of provinces, this being one of them. Albertans are desirous of getting more information. There is even an ad in today's newspaper from a tax group asking that the government initiate such legislation. My first question is to the minister of economic development. The minister has hinted at a policy.

He is thinking and talking and discussing a policy to bring forward more information that deals with companies that do business with the government. I'd like the minister to tell this Assembly where that policy is and when it will be tabled. MR. ELZINGA: Mr. Speaker, I'm happy to repeat for the leader of the Liberal Party in this Assembly that I'm not hinting at it. We've indicated with all our programs that we go through a process of review to make sure they are continuously meeting the demands of the Alberta population. As part of that review, we're more than happy to look at that.

More importantly, we're looking forward to this fall when we are going to have a conference on the economy, whereby we're going to ask all Albertans to participate and give us direction as to whether they agree with the strong thrust we have taken as a province as it relates to economic diversification, thus in turn creating jobs for Albertans. We're going to ask for input so we can maintain our leadership as it relates to economic growth. MR. DECORE: Mr. Speaker, my question was: when will we have a policy for information? That was the question. My second question is to the Deputy Premier.

This week the province of B.C. announced that they will introduce freedom of information legislation. Mr. Deputy Premier, when can we expect the Alberta government to announce similar legislation? MR. HORSMAN: Mr. Speaker, the question of information and its accessibility is clearly spelled out now. For a nybody who wants to look and listen and learn what it's all a bout, it's all clearly spelled out in Beauchesne relative to the types of information available from the government. In most cases in other provinces and the federal government, those rules have simply been incorporated into legislation.

Our government is following precisely the same rules of making information available that other provinces do pursuant to the so-called freedom of information legislation. All it has done – and I repeat this again – all it has done is take the rules from Beauchesne which we follow in this Assembly and put them into another piece of legislation. That's a fact, and if the hon. leader of the Liberal Party isn't yet familiar enough with Beauchesne, I suggest he read Beauchesne. MR. DECORE: Mr. Speaker, that really is absolute nonsense, and the Deputy Premier knows it.

More than 60 percent of the motions for returns and written questions are denied by the government. I want to know from the Deputy Premier when he's going to give information to Albertans. We asked, for example . . . MR. SPEAKER: No. [interjections] Order. The question was asked. [interjections] Order. [interjections] Order. [interjec- tions] Order. MR. TAYLOR: I hope you cut him off in his answers. MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Westlock-Sturgeon. I'd be happy to cut you off anytime myself. MR. DECORE: Explain why we can't get answers. [interjec- tions]

May 10, 1991 Alberta Hansard 1135 Speaker's Ruling Decorum MR. SPEAKER: No. [interjections] Order. The question . . . [interjection] Just a moment, Deputy Premier, I haven't recognized you yet. I'm waiting for the place to get back to order. Deputy Premier. Freedom of Information Legislation (continued) MR.

HORSMAN: The leader of the Liberal Party knows very well that they are placing on the Order Paper questions which under any freedom of information legislation in Canada would not be acceptable, b ecause they deal with questions of commer- cial confidentiality, they deal with questions which relate to advice which is given within government by civil servants to ministers of the Crown, or they deal with matters which relate to advice given by one minister of the Crown to cabinet. In all cases, in all pieces of freedom of information legislation in Canada, these are prohibited from disclosure.

If the Liberal Party wants to keep on asking those questions, putting them on the Order Paper in the same way, they can keep on doing that, but the fact of the matter is that they are not acceptable. They are also requesting – and I have noted this with a lot of interest – information that doesn't exist. Therefore, we have to reject questions or motions fo r returns when the information doesn't exist, and they make a great to-do out of rejecting questions of that kind.

Or when the information is already part of the public records, they are putting motions on the Order Paper asking for information that, if they had the time and made the effort, they could get by going to the public records. MR. SPEAKER: Thank you. [interjection] Thank you. Gas Pipeline Extension MR. PAYNE: Mr. Speaker, earlier in question period today the Member for Calgary-Forest Lawn said that it's a sad day in Calgary. I'd like to suggest the reverse is true; it's a very good news day for Calgary.

The reason I say that is because of the National Energy Board's decision yesterday, perhaps one of the most impactive decisions the NEB has made in recent times. For the benefit of members who aren't aware of that announce- ment, the NEB has approved an extension of the TCPL system into New York, New England, and New Jersey: a very significant announcement for the i ndustry. I'd like to ask the Minister of Energy if he could quantify for members of the Assembly the implications and the impact of that very important decision. [interjections] MR. SPEAKER: Order. Let the minister get started, please. MR.

ORMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Member for Calgary-Fish Creek aptly pointed out, there was a significant decision made before the National Energy Board yesterday, and that was to approve the $2.6 billion expansion of TransCanada PipeLines into eastern Canada and the northeastern United States. It was significant because one of the difficulties in the industry today is the tremendous inventory of natural gas that is behind pipe without a market. This approval will certainly alleviate a great deal of that supply.

Along with the $2.6 billion of TCPL construction, Nova is in the process of expanding their intra-Alberta facilities to about 1 and a half billion dollars, and part of that will be to facilitate this expansion. So you can see that the ripple effect is quite significant. We're very pleased with this decision, and it will have a very positive impact on th e future of this province's energy industry. MR. PAYNE: Mr. Speaker, as you may be aware, there are other projects awaiting approval. These projects would take natural gas out of Alberta to the U.S. midwest and to Califor- nia.

I'm wondering: can the Minister of Energy indicate to the Assembly what this most recent NEB decision has done or what implications it has for these projects awaiting approval? MR. ORMAN: Well, Mr. Speaker, from time to time the Crown and the producers make decisions on which projects to support based on their economic viability, but the TransCanada PipeLines expansion has major implications for other parts of this country.

Not only will there be this year total revenues of $550 million, of which the Crown r eceives between 20 and 25 percent, but I think it's important to note the impact of this project on other provinces of Canada in terms of construction. Saskatchewan will receive $315 million worth of economic benefits; Manitoba, $215 million; Ontario, $1.8 billion; and Quebec, $235 m illion. Mr. Speaker, you can see that over the one and a half year construction period the ripple effect of this project, not only to Alberta but to other parts of Canada, will be very, very positive.

For that reason it's a decision that's made in the best interests of Canada, not just Alberta. MR. SPEAKER: West Yellowhead. 10:20 Fuel Contamination Incident MR. DOYLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With respect to the Hinton poisoning, the Premier still thinks it's sufficient to say that accidents happen and the government has done its best in this matter. It's not an accident that someone stole the fuel tanks.

It's probably not an accident that the poison got into the fuel to start with, and none of the parties involved – Husky, Petro-Canada, Westcan transport . . . [interjections] Speaker's Ruling Interrupting a Member MR. SPEAKER: Excuse me, hon. member. Order on the government benches. Just as you need a chance for them to be quiet so you can get your first couple of sentences on your questions, the same courtesy is due this member as well. Thank you. Fuel Contamination Incident (continued) MR. DOYLE: Mr. Speaker, it's not an accident that someone stole the fuel tanks.

It's probably not an accident that the poison got into the fuel to start with, and none of the parties involved – Husky, Petro-Canada, Westcan transport, the town of Hinton, and everyone injured by the substance – feel that the government has done everything it can to unravel the mystery.

I'd like to ask the Acting Premier: given that a number of commissions and inquiries have set out the standard for circum- stances where a public inquiry is justified and the Hinton poisoning certainly appears to f it this criteria, will the Acting Premier agree to reverse the government's previous position and hold a public inquiry into this matter?

1136 Alberta Hansard May 10, 1991 MR. HORSMAN: I'll refer the hon. Member for West Yellowhead to the Hansard of yesterday and the exchange between the Leader of the Opposition and the Premier which dealt with this matter precisely. MR. DOYLE: Not quite, Mr. Speaker. I was with the injured workers in Hinton yesterday.

Lord Justice Salmon, chairman of the Royal Commission on Tribunals of Inquiry, said: From time to time cases arise concerning rumoured instances of lapses in accepted standards of public administration and other matters causing public concern which cannot be dealt with by ordinary civil or criminal process but which require investigation in order to allay anxiety. Speaker's Ruling Brevity in Oral Question Period MR. SPEAKER: Whoa. Hold it. Hon. member, I'm sorry. I've intervened on your behalf. You continue to go on reading and reading and reading.

You've now turned to the second page with respect to the supplementary. I'm sorry; you must ask the question. [interjection] Thank you very much. I don't need your assistance in that manner. Fuel Contamination Incident (continued) MR. DOYLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That was a quote from the Lord Justice.

Once again to the Acting Premier: given that the Acting Premier has acknowledged the failure of the normal criminal process in this matter and given that it is certainly a matter of public concern, how does the Acting Premier explain the difference between his position and the criteria laid out by Lord Justice Salmon? MR. HORSMAN: There's no question that the hon. member has raised a matter of concern to his constituents and to people who have been harmed as a result of an incident. I'm not making light of that at all. But the fact of the matter is that the hon.

Member for West Yellowhead has indicated that given that I have acknowledged certain things and given that I have acknowledged certain other things . . . Mr. Speaker, I have not acknowledged anything of the kind, and I want the record to show that. What the Premier said to the hon. Leader of the Opposition yesterday is that this matter will be carefully reviewed by the government. I repeat it: it is a serious matter that has been raised. I repeat what the Premier said: the matter will be carefully examined by the government.

I refer the hon. member to the exchange between the Leader of the Opposition and the Premier in yesterday's Hansard. [interjec- tions] Speaker's Ruling Interrupting a Member MR. SPEAKER: Hon. member, you and other members have been told you don't shout back and forth when you're getting the answer. I'm sorry that you're picking up that bad habit from other members. [interjections] Thank you, hon. mem- bers. Calgary-North West. Northern Steel Inc. MR. BRUSEKER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question today is to the Minister of Economic Development and Trade.

Northern Steel is one of many examples of this government's ineptitude in handling business. Yesterday in the House we revealed that the government is in the process of suing a related company and in particular an individual by the name of Del Hankinson, who was the secretary-treasurer and controller of Northern Steel and Precision Manufacturing at the same time. Curiously, Mr. Hankinson left Northern Steel in February of 1990 at the same time the in itial claim was made with respect to Precision Manufacturing, where he was also located.

My question to the Minister of Economic Development and Trade is: was this individual required to leave Northern Steel as a result of his alleged fraudulent activities that were occurring at Precision Manufacturing? MR. ELZINGA: No, Mr. Speaker. MR. BRUSEKER: Well, I guess he doesn't know much at all.

My supplementary, then, is: since the circumstances around Northern Steel appear so suspicious and incestuous and deceitful, will the minister commit to doing a full investigation of the transactions between Northern Steel, Precision Manufacturing, and Premier Steel to find out where all the dollars have gone that have been written off? MR. ELZINGA: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is making a number of allegations which he cannot substantiate, and I must say I am disappointed in the hon. member in that he would involve himself in such accusations without supporting documen- tation.

The hon. member is also offering certain suggestions as it relates to Precision machine and the actions this government has initiated whic h fall directly under another minister. If the other minister, who is responsible for public safety services, wishes to respond, I hope the House would have the liberty to hear him, but I should leave the hon. member with the assur- ance that the investigation we have done shows there has been no wrongdoing. In the event that any wrongdoing is uncovered, as this government always has done, we will make sure the full force of the law comes to bear. MR. SPEAKER: Banff-Cochrane.

Western Heritage Centre MR. EVANS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A report commis- sioned for the province of Alberta by Equus Consulting Gr oup, which was released in December of 1990, speaks glowingly of a project in Banff-Cochrane constituency, the Western Heritage Centre. It speaks about a number of substantial benefits to Alberta and to my constituency as a result of the project, including its attractiveness to tourists regionally and internation- ally, an excellent site, authenticity from an historic aspect, and a re-creation of the ranching and rodeo history of southern Alberta.

However, there is concern in the report, as it contem- plates and projects a deficit of some half a million dollars in the third year of operation. My question is to the Minister of Culture and Multiculturalism. Is he aware of this projected deficit? MR. MAIN: Mr. Speaker, the consultant's report dealing with tourism studies points out that this project in fact will draw something in excess of 200,000 people, but it also projects a deficit.

Now, we can argue about whether that projection is accurate or not, but let me say this and repeat this for the House: as I've said many times to the proponents of the WHC, to critics of the project, to supporters of the project, and to everybody who's asked any questions on this project, if there is

May 10, 1991 Alberta Hansard 1137 a deficit, if there is an opera ting shortfall, that will be the responsibility of the operators and owners of the project, the Western Heritage Society, and not the government and the taxpayers. MR. SPEAKER: Supplementary. MR. EVANS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. B ecause government is assisting this pr oject by putting in a maximum of $5 million after $5 million has been raised by the not-for-profit society which is in charge of the project, I have great concerns about government supporting such a project if a deficit is contem- plated.

My question to the minister is: why is government supporting a project if a deficit is projected? MR. MAIN: Well, Mr. Speaker, we do support the construc- tion side of this project, the capital involvement of a bout $5 million matching in excess of $5 million raised through the private sector. We're concerned, too, about the operation of this centre. In fact, we took a look at the consultant's report.

Experts in our department, who have been involved in the construction and operation of many successful historic sites, such as Head-Smashed-In Buffalo Jump, the Tyrrell Museum, and others, reviewed the figures, had a look at the projections, had a look at the assumptions made in the report. In actual fact, when we put it to our expertise in the department and look at it, there's not a deficit of half a million dollars projected; there's a surplus of $26,000. So, Mr.

Speaker, what we have is a project that's said to be successful from a tourism stand- point, an authenticity standpoint, attracting large number of visitors, and making money on top. 10:30 MR. SPEAKER: Edmonton-Belmont. Employment Statistics MR. SIGURDSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Deputy Premier. The labour statistics show that Alberta is not an island in the sea of recession that's going on. In fact, the opposite is true. We now have 113,000 Albertans unemployed.

Unemployment is down in other provinces, such as Quebec, Ontario, and British Columbia, and our rate of unemployment is 20,000 persons higher than it was this time last year. I would ask the Deputy Premier to justify this government's "don't worry, be happy" cavalier attitude and justify how it is that the government can really not care about the unemployed when the rate is going up in Alberta and down in the rest of the country. MR. HORSMAN: Mr. Speaker, the employment statistics which were released today show a marginal increase in unem- ployment in Alberta, and that, of course, is regrettable.

The government never wants to see Albertans who wish to have meaningful employment unemployed. Of course, we assume that all Albertans wish to have meaningful employment, and therefore it's a sad situation when people are unemployed. Nonetheless, one has to, as a government, assess whether or not one should maintain policies of economic and fiscal stability or whether one should plunge into the same type of red-ink effort to spend their way out of the recession that has been adopted by the province of Ontario.

We have decided, and I think it's been clearly pointed out in the budget and throughout the course of debate on estimates, that we are proceeding to have a fiscally responsible, balanced budget approach and to rely on the private sector . . . MR. DECORE: What a joke. MR. HORSMAN: . . . which will provide the engine for growth and meaningful job oppor tunities. Lavish government spending is not the answer in this time, and Alberta is not – is not, I repeat – part of the recession that has swept through North America and other parts of Canada. MR. SIGURDSON: Well, Mr.

Speaker, the unemployment rate is especially bad for those people who fall between the ages of 15 and 24, and while some Tories on the back bench may argue for work camps for young offenders, the New Democrats are simply arguing for meaningful jobs for those young people. If you juxtapose the cost of job creation against the costs of court costs, incarceration, parole, and rehabilitation, you'll find that job creation is a far less expensive venture to undertake.

I would ask the Deputy Premier: would he not agree that it's better to spend money putting young people to work before they run afoul of the law as opposed to spending money on young people after they've run afoul of the law? MR. HORSMAN: Well, the hon. member has twisted himself out of shape on this question, Mr. Speaker. The fact of the matter is that the best way – despite what the Liberal Leader interjected earlier, that it's a joke that the private sector creates jobs.

I don't know where he comes from on his economic theories; nonetheless, I think Albertans should be aware that that's his view, and he expressed it earlier in the previous question. I want to say, Mr. Speaker, that we believe a balanced budget, fiscal responsibility, and management of the economy of this province with the private se ctor taking the initiative is the best way to find meaningful employment. Phony government spending to induce employment is in the long run self-defeating for young people and everyone else in our society. We believe in this government in a free market economy.

We believe that is the best answer for the people of Alberta, and I believe the people of Alberta agree with this government. MR. SPEAKER: Edmonton-Beverly. Disaster Preparedness MR. EWASIUK: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This morning my questions are to the minister responsible for public safety services. Recent tornadoes in the United States have raised the concern of local residents about another possible disaster in our area. In 1988 the tornado victims' committee subm itted numerous recommendations to the minister, one of which called for an eight point disaster plan.

My question to the minister is this: can he explain what action he has taken on these recom- mendations? MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the question from the hon. member. I'm not able to report exactly the update with regards to the eight recommendations. It is my intent this coming week to meet with disaster services personnel plus a number of other interested bodies that will be discussing that specific item. I will report back to the member the progress we have made and the progress we intend to make during the year 1991-92.

1138 Alberta Hansard May 10, 1991 MR. EWASIUK: Mr. Speaker, the sighting of a twister in the Edmonton area last night reminds us that the season of tornados is possibly upon us. Is the minister taking up the recommenda- tions of the tornado victims' committee to put in place a public education program to alert people and to offer suggestions to follow in the event of a tornado in their area? MR. R. SPEAKER: Mr. Speaker, we certainly will be doing that. I'm sure there are a number of those recommendations in place already.

From the tornado that occurred in Edmonton we gained a vast amount of experience, and I am sure a number of those recommendations have already been incorporated into our disaster program, specifically re tornadoes as such. I will double-check for the hon. member and quickly give him that information to assure him and relieve the concern of residents of this city and other parts of Alberta. MR. SPEAKER: Calgary-McKnight. Video Classification MRS. GAGNON: Thank you. The influence of pornography on children is well documented, and it is destructive.

One year ago I expressed a concern to the Minister of Culture and Multiculturalism regarding the fact that children of any age have access to all videos, no matter how sexually explicit or violent, and that we need new rules to change this practice. The minister replied by suggesting that by the fall of 1990 there would be a recommendation from the Alberta film classification board about the matter.

Later, in D ecember of 1990, the minister informed this House that a national film and video classification was being developed through a co-operative effort among the provinces and that this classification would help him develop policy. Mr. Speaker, we have heard nothing about any of this. To the Minister of Cu lture and Multiculturalism: is he exercising any leadership to move these efforts along? We need a plan and now. MR. MAIN: Mr. Speaker, yes. MRS. GAGNON: Very good. I'd like to know some of the details, please. MR. MAIN: Mr.

Speaker, there's an ongoing consultative process that involves the film classification branches in the various provinces. These people meet on a regular basis. There's contact at the staff and professional levels on an ongoing basis, but it's a very complicated matter. It involves numerous areas of jurisdiction, not only in the most important matter raised by the Member for Calgary-McKnight, which I believe requires some manner of addressing.

We're dealing not only with 11 different jurisdictions; we're dealing with a number of statutes, including the Criminal Code and its obscenity regulations, which have not yet been definitely ruled on by the Supreme Court of Canada. Until such time as there is clear law as to what is and is not pornography, trying to address some sort of provincial or municipal statute in that area is virtually impossible. Nevertheless, the work continues. We agree it's an important problem.

Nobody wants to have children exposed to spurious material, but the practical application and the practical means of addressing that are not available to anybody right at the moment. Lakeside Centennial Loan MR. CHUMIR: Mr. Speaker, this is to the Provincial Trea- surer, by the way. The few tidbits of information we have indicate that the terms of the government's $15 million to Centennial Packers of Calgary are so generous to the company that bankers would be impeached by their shareholders if they loaned a company money on the same terms.

It appears that $15 million of public money has been loaned to Centennial with interest payable only in the even t there is a profit. Now, this $15 million loan replaces the $15 million guarantee that was approved by the Provincial Treasurer – he has to approve those – and by the cabinet. I'm wondering whether the minister can explain to Albertans why $15 million of public money was loaned to Centennial upon terms that could only be dreamed of by his personal bagman. 10:40 MRS. McCLELLAN: Mr.

Speaker, that question is clearly for the Minister of Agriculture, and I'd be happy to take it on notice for the hon. member. MR. CHUMIR: The Provincial Treasurer certainly knows the terms of this guarantee or else there's something wrong with the way in which that government is administering their programs, and there certainly is. I would like the minister to tell us under what program I and other members of the public in Alberta can come and get money in which interest is payable only in the event that we make a profit out of the business venture. MR. JOHNSTON: Mr.

Speaker, we've already seen the Associate Minister of Agriculture indicate that in terms of the broad policy, that will be handled by our colleague when he returns to the Assembly. The member knows that the govern- ment operates in terms of programs. Programs provide equal access to assistance from the government for all participants who are creditworthy, who satisfy certain checks with respect to the appropriateness of their business plans, and from which the province can take security. You'll find that when the minister returns, he'll describe for you how this government has in fact made this economy work.

Now, we have built on the strengths of agriculture. Agriculture is a fundamental principle. We know the Liberals would have nothing to do with agriculture. Not only would they close the hospitals in rural Alberta, Mr. Speaker, but they'd close the opportunities for farmers to prosper in this great province of ours. We'll come back and tell you about that. Oldman River Dam MR. BRADLEY: Mr. Speaker, the Oldman dam is 95 percent complete, and the reservoir is now filling.

With a record snowpack in the mountains, residents downstream from the dam have expressed concern to me about the possibility of down- stream flooding this year. To the Minister of Public Works, Supply and Services: what assurance can the minister provide this House and Albertans that the dam is safe, and what effect will it have on the possibility of flooding downstream this year? MR. KOWALSKI: Mr. Speaker, normally and annually there is a bit of a flood that does occur in the Oldman River, and it's very important for the survival of the cottonwood trees that do exist near the Peigan Indian reserve.

This year we've got nearly twice the amount of snowpack in the Rocky Mountains. With the warming trend that we're going to have over the next four

May 10, 1991 Alberta Hansard 1139 to six weeks, there'll be an incredible amount of water that will flow out of the mountains. In fact, the reservoir will probably fill to a depth of about 200 feet, 12 miles-plus in length and nearly two miles wide. There will be a minor, mild, controlled flood that will have to be put in pl ace to protect the cottonwood trees, but there's absolutely no problem with respect to safety concerns for any individual. I would suggest, though, that without the dam there could have been a disaster with the incredible amount of water that will be coming down.

But the dam will work, and it will function, and it will provide safety. MR. BRADLEY: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker, to the minister. With the reservoir filling, habitat for deer, peregrine falcons, fish, and wildlife will be flooded. Would the minister advise as to what action has been taken to replace this lost wildlife habitat? MR. KOWALSKI: Mr. Speaker, the most exhaustive environ- mental mitigation program ever undertaken on any project in the history of Alberta is being undertaken on not only the Oldman River but the Castle River and the Crowsnest River and in the area surrounding the reservoir.

We've built some 80-plus nesting areas close to the Oldman reservoir. Nests on the side of the cliffs for falcons – in fact, even one Canada goose, believe it not, has built a nest on the side of the cliff – are being monitored and will be moved in the event. There are also spots in the reservoir itself that will be above the 200-foot depth where nests can be appropriated. We've also done several hundred kilometres of fencing to protect deer. In fact, the deer population is probably twice what it normally has been in previous years in the site area.

I was there earlier this week, and I've never seen so much wildlife, vibrant, flying in and about. Local individuals who have lived in the area have also confirmed that to me and said that they have never seen so many deer and so many birds. MR. SPEAKER: Vegreville. Hospital Funding MR. FOX: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The concept of case based funding for acute care hospitals has merit, but the minister's heavy-handed implementation of the acute care funding model on 29 hospitals in the province has caused many problems and raised legitimate fear among those responsible for the hospitals in rural Albert a which are on the list for the second round of implementation. Role statements for hospitals have not been developed, the outpatient component remains unresolved, and, in the words of a nonpartisan academic at the University of Alberta, a larg e information gap exists with respect to the impact of the acute care funding model.

Now, in view of the fact that many of the rural hospitals involved in the first round fear the loss of services, like essential diagnostic services, due to funding cuts, will the minister agree to suspend implementation of the acute care funding model on rural hospitals until the model has been fully reviewed and developed to the satisfaction of the administrators and boards of these hospitals in rural Alberta? MS BETKOWSKI: Mr. Speaker, the acute care funding model has never applied to the small rural hospitals.

At the AHA convention in November I indicated that I was putting together a special study unit as part of acute care funding for those under 60-bed hospitals. For the ones that the hon. member terms as rural that are currently participating in the acute care funding – in other words, those with over 60 beds – the plan is continu- ing, with consultation with the Alberta Hospital Association, the Alberta Medical Association, the Alberta Association of Regis- tered Nurses, and the hospitals involved in the study. MR. FOX: Mr.

Speaker, rural hospitals account for only 7 percent of the total budget, and in those hospitals 85 percent of their costs are fixed, so I suggest that imposing the acute care funding model is nothing short of a mean-spi rited and ill- conceived attempt to balance the budget on the backs of the patients in those hospitals, many of whom are elderly Albertans.

I'd like to ask the minister if she will at least instruct the committee that is reviewing this model to hold comprehensive, open public hearings so that the people who are in, working at, and responsible for these rural hospitals can have their voices heard and maybe really help to develop a truly effective model. MS BETKOWSKI: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member was not listening to my first answer. He went on with his lengthy rhetoric, but he ignored the fact that we have set up a special unit because of the exact reason he identifies: the issue of fixed costs in our smaller facilities.

Acute care funding has not applied to those smaller hospitals, because we need to l ook at the unique needs of those sma ller rural hospitals before we implement the acute care funding model. I can tell the hon. member that the acute care funding model is clearly one of the most highly regarded right now in Canada, because people from all over this country – not just from Alberta academics but from all over this nation, including his colleagues from Ontario – are looking at what we are doing in the area of acute care funding in Alberta.

I believe we're leading the way in Health, as we are often doing in Alberta, towards making the best use of our health dollars today to ensure the sustainability of our health system in the future. It is worth our efforts. MR. SPEAKER: The Minister of Technology, Research and Telecommunications wishes to supplement information given yesterday in response to Edmonton-Kingsway. NovAtel Communications Ltd. MR. STEWART: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I make reference to a question that was raised in question period yesterday by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Kingsway, and it's set forth on page 1094 of Hansard.

The reason I do so is because within the question are implications of wr ongdoing suggesting, as it were, that some sort of criminal investigation take place in c onnection with the matter. I think, for the purpose of the record, that it's important to point out that the vehicle was not a NovAtel vehicle. It was, in fact, a vehicle that was under the ownership of Mr. Lippert. The equipment was in fact partially installed within the vehicle by NovAtel as well as Mr. Lippert. Mr. Lippert did not take a car allowance.

He used this vehicle as well, but more importantly the vehicle was used for manufacturing trade shows and other opportunities for marketing. This happened several years ago, so there was no absconding with it. There were some elements of the equipment that, while depreciated in price, nevertheless were on the books of NovAtel, and indeed discus- sions are under way with Mr. Lippert with respect to settling any of those outstanding claims. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, as I say, I think it's important – people's reputations and so on are involved in this – that the record should be clear with respect to the matter.

1140 Alberta Hansard May 10, 1991 MR. McEACHERN: Well, talking of reputations, this minister held a fire sale of AGT, repurchased NovAtel after a . . . Speaker's Ruling Brevity in Oral Question Period MR. SPEAKER: Hon. member, you're called to order. Take your place. This is a supplementary question with respect to the issue that was there; it's not going through the whole issue of NovAtel and this whole department. Let's have the question. NovAtel Communications Ltd. (continued) MR.

McEACHERN: Well, after the long list of misadventures with this company, will the minister now resign, like he should have long ago when the $204 million was announced? MR. STEWART: Mr. Speaker, I'd be very pleased to debate all matters that pertain to the privatization of AGT on Monday night when my estimates will be before the Committee of Supply. Hopefully the hon. memb er will be able to be there, and maybe even one or two of his other colleagues, in order to participate in that very important discussion. head: Orders of the Day 10:50 MR. SPEAKER: Might we revert briefly to Introduction of Special Guests?

HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. MR. SPEAKER: Opposed? Carried. Thank you. In this order: Redwater-Andrew, Wainwright, and Lacombe. head: Introduction of Special Guests (reversion) MR. ZARUSKY: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's my pleasure today to introduce to you and to the Assembly a fine group of students from the Redwater school, who I'm sure are studying politics and government. They're accompanied by teachers Fred Hrync huk, Henry Fiege, Diane Grainger, and many parents. They're seated in the public gallery, and I'd ask that they rise and receive the warm welcome of the Assembly. MR.

SPEAKER: Is Calgary-Buffalo wishing to be recognized? [interjections] No. Thank you. Wainwright. MR. FISCHER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's my pleasure to introduce to you and through you to members of the Assembly 66 students from the Wainwright elementary school in the beautiful constituency of Wain wright, home of the only falcon farm in Canada. They are accompanied by four teachers, Mr. Allen, Mr. Brink, Mr. Marchand, and Mr. Weatherill, and 12 parents.

They are seated in both the public and members' galleries, and I'd ask them to rise and receive the warm welcome of this Assembly. head: Committee of Supply [Mr. Jonson in the Chair] MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I would ask the committee to please come to order. head: Main Estimates 1991-92 Tourism MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: These estimates are located on page 321 of the main estimates and starting on page 135 of the elements book. Does the hon. minister have any opening remarks? MR. SPARROW: Mr. Chairman, I'm pleased to come before the Committee of Supply to report on another year of successes in tourism in this province.

I'm pleased to report new gains that the tourism industry has made in assisting to diversify our provincial economy. Tourism revenues have tripled since the late 1970s. In 1991 revenues are projected to increase to $2.73 billion, up from $2.59 billion last year. We've looked carefully at our budget this year. We knew that we had to continue to strengthen this important economic industry while at the same time we had to answer to Alberta's taxpayers. Sixty-eight percent of our provincial budget goes towards Health, Education, and social programs, and all have had major increases.

Albertans have set these programs as their priorities. We have listened to the concerns of Albertans. We are sensitive to the needs of the people who live in this province. Yes, we made some tough decisions, but in tourism we're proud to be assisting in balancing the provincial budget. We all must do more with less. The key to success has been careful planning and, of course, teamwork. Mr. Chairman, I spoke to you about teamwork in our budget presentations last year and the year before that and the year before that.

It is teamwork with Alberta business people, teamwork with Alberta communities, and teamwork with the tourism zones and regions of the province. Those of us in the tourism industry are working together in the development and marketing of projects for local initiatives. We know who our customer is. That is why a small and efficient department like Alberta Tourism can lead the efforts of Alberta's third largest economic industry. We serve and support the tourism industry of Alberta. We must make the industry strong and assist them in attracting their customer, the tourist.

We have a close working relationship with our industry and our associa- tions. Because we have fostered these team partnerships, the Alberta tourism industry becomes stronger every year. One dynamic industry group, the Tourism Industry Association of Alberta, better known as TIAALTA, is our partner in such ventures as the Team Tourism program, the community tourism action program, and the Alberta Best program. The industry is equipped for the l ong term. Alberta Tourism performed last year on a mode st budget of $31.8 million.

We are prepared for our reduction of 14 percent, or approximately $4.47 million, and as a team we will do more with less. It's not what you can spend that counts; it's what you can get done. Our 1991-92 budget total is $27,335,350. This does not include the approximately $10 million of lottery funded programs, like Team Tourism and CTAP. Through past efforts and continued team partnerships we are witnessing a strong industry growth. Let's take a look at some of our recent successes.

In our planning division, communities throughout Alberta are working with Alberta Tourism to develop their economies through tourism. Approximately 6,800 goals and objectives have been identified in 285 registered community tourism action plans throughout Alberta. Each of these goals represent projects of all sizes. Objectives may be as simple as putting up a new sign, adding a coffee shop, or preparing a brochure, or they may be quite a bit more complex.

May 10, 1991 Alberta Hansard 1141 The community may decide it needs better accommodation, a shuttle bus service, or hosp itality training. Many Alberta communities are pursuing major goals, such as 18-hole golf courses with full tourism services and accommodation nearby, entertainment complexes, RV parks, museum projects, family vacation resorts. Alberta co mmunities all across the province are building on their futures. Many of these goals and objec- tives are now under way or complete.

This well-known community tourism action program has won a national award of excellence from the Canadian Institute of Planners as well as the international Gold Award from the Pacific Asia Travel Associa- tion last year. I'd also like to mention that this division is working on many major projects, and other destination planning is under way. In joint marketing efforts 1990 saw tremendous successes. In April 1990 we worked with 35 of our i ndustry partners to host the Travel Mart of the Pacific Asia Travel Association. We attracted more than 1,100 decision-makers here to Edmonton for the first time ever.

Our team just came back from PATA in Djakarta. We led a trade delegation to Dinoventure 1990 in Japan, the major tourism exhibit that displayed Alberta to some 1.2 million people, again with th e teamwork of other depart- ments and 18 industry partners. 11:00 I'd like to talk about Europe for a minute, Mr. Chairman, and I want to congratulate Horst Schmid for his efforts in the German-speaking tourism markets for Alberta. Horst is truly a leader in the international industry.

Just this spring he r eceived the Golden Helm Award at ITB in Berlin, the world's largest international tourism convention and exhibition, and assisted our tourism partners at ITB. The award recognized his contributions in the development of interna tional tourism with competence, dedication, and professionalism. Congratulations should go to Horst. Let's talk for a minute about the tourism lottery programs. The Team Tourism program administered by TIAALTA and funded by Alberta Lotteries allocated approximately $8 million to 889 applications to date.

The community tourism action program for funding, also administered by TIAALTA and funded by Alberta Lotteries, has allocated $11.9 million to 446 projects worth some $50.3 m illion. Assistance in this program runs anywhere from $487 a project to $250,000 per project, but the total value of these individual projects ranges from $650 to $9.2 million. Both of these lottery programs are excellent examples of the teamwork between industry and government. The Hon. Ken Kowalski, responsible for Alberta Lotteries, is one of our important partners in the tourism industry. I'd like to talk for a minute, Mr.

Chairman, about the Alberta Tourism Education Council. It is another example of how Alberta's success is gaining international recognition. This council is a tremendous example of teamwork between the members of the Alberta tourism industry, Alberta's education institutions, and the various departments of government, including Career Development and Employment, Education, and Labour. This c ouncil is in the process of completing standards and certification for 25 different tourism occupations. I'm proud to tell you about two r ecent announcements in respect to the council. My hearty congratulations to Mr.

Bill Payne, Member for Calgary-Fish Creek, for his position as chairman of the Alberta Tourism Education Council, and I would like to congratulate the council on r eceiving an international Gold Award at the Pacific Asia Travel Association. On behalf of the council our deputy minister, Bernie Campbell, recently accepted the award on their behalf, which recognizes the outstanding gains that Alberta has made in hospitality training since the beginning of the council.

There's a lot of people who have been instrumental in bringing this award to Alberta, especially Susan Dowler, executive director, who's been there with the council since day one, and I'd like to congratulate Stockwell Day, the Member for Red Deer-North, the original chairman, for his excellent work and his insight into the tourism industry. Brian Evans, the Member for Banff-Cochrane, took over from there and has taken the council to where it is today with a range of exciting new standards for a number of occupations in the industry.

I want to extend my best wishes to our new chairman, who is rising to the challenge of taking this successful council to a new stage in Alberta's tourism industry. The chairman will speak about the council's activities following my presentation, and I'm sure you'll be very interested to hear about these outstanding initiatives that are happening here in Alberta. We are working closely with the council and the industry on the new Alberta Best program, a hospitality training program designed to ensure that Alberta visitors receive excellence in service.

Our business development branch is assisting businesses across the province. Our offices in Edmonton and Calgary are working to facilitate an estimated 220 major tourism projects across the province. Projects range in value from $20,000 to $150 million per project, and we are serving a range of Alberta entrepreneurs in facilitating everything from small wilderness lodges or small rural projects to Alberta's first five-star tourism resort. To date we are working with 96 projects at the development permit stage and the construction stage.

This represents an estimated value of about $515 million in tourism projects provincewide. Over and above that the business development branch is working with numerous entrepreneurs on possible future ventures: approximately 50 projects in the conceptual stage and 75 projects in the planning and financial stage. I want to commend the staff for being facilitators, for helping make things happen in the industry all over this province. Mr. Chairman, I want to remind Albertans that this successful business development branch does not disburse funds.

It is facilitating hundreds of Alberta projects with counseling and business assistance services. These activities will continue in our future even in light of the budget reductions. We will see new successes and continued growth. The Canada/Alberta tourism agreement ended in March of 1990. The $56 million agreement had assisted over 450 projects worth some $335 million in tourism activity. The money in this year's budget will be used to make payments on those contract arrangements. Let's go to a budget overview, Mr. Chairman. The industry is moving forward, and we are moving realistically.

We have built upon teamwork, and we have worked with the industry that is in a strong position to help themselves. This budget year will see a balanced budget with continued support to the tourism industry. The Department of Tourism is looking at an overall budget decrease of 14.4 percent to assist in meeting the requests of Albertans to balance that budget, like many other depart- ments. In this presentation I'd like to run through the changes in the order of our department's four main areas: Corporate Develop- ment planning, Industry and Business Development, and Marketing.

As observed in our estimates, you will notice that Alberta Tourism experienced an increase in salaries of 6.9 percent as a result of merit increases and new union wage settlements. This carries over all four divisions. We have had

1142 Alberta Hansard May 10, 1991 downsizing in all four areas. We reduced 15 full-time equiva- lents. Through good management the department avoided layoffs. In vote 1, Mr. Chairman, Corporate Development, we have an overall net decrease of 8.9 percent. We've reduced our research budget, postponed some research initiatives to future years. This will have little effect, though, on our current operations. We maintained our research priorities. We will complete the important nonresident and resident surveys for industry, complete phases 2 and 3 of the tourism impact monitoring survey.

I would also like to acknowledge the contribution our industry is making to the cost of this n ecessary research. In vote 2, Planning, we have an overall reduction of 3.5 percent. Here we have maintained all essential day-to-day functions in large projects, decreasing some support services. We've reduced 15.8 percent to the community services branch, primarily by the elimination of support materials, the tourism development network bulletins, and the Communities on Tap newsletters. This branch will continue with its strong role in consulting on tourism action plans and related activities.

The consulting and counseling services, which are the backbone of this program, are being continue d. Reducing literature will not have a major negative effect on the community planning. We've also reduced 5.9 percent in the generator planning. We will be a little less able to financially assist with development related studies, but we will continue to assist proponents in development planning of major tourism generators.

However, we will reduce our cost-shared role in such studies as site self- sufficiency, infrastructure requirements, market demand, and feasibility. 11:10 In our Industry and Business Development unit, an overall reduction of 36.8 percent. This is primarily by a reduction of $2 million by not proceeding with the regional generator development program. The funding is not available to go ahead with this program at this time. We will continue with the efforts to our one-window business counseling assistance and with current programs that assist major regional projects.

We've reduced funding for Industry Organization and Devel- opment. We have canceled tourism scholarships and reduced the tourism zone assistance grants used for administration and promotion purposes. Survey results have told us that particular scholarships no longer serve the needs of the breadth of the industry. In terms of the zone assistance grants to TIAALTA, we recognize that the industry association has matured a great deal since the beginning of the grant program and has become much more self-sufficient since then. Some zones are operating as self-sufficient operations already.

I'd like to congratulate Calgary's tourism zone, for instance, for setting an example of what our zone associations are capable of. Tourism is a strong economic industry. I look forward to working with all of the zones and the Tourism Industry Association to help them realize their goals for self-sufficiency. In Marketing, Mr. Chairman, we have an overall reduction of 13.5 percent. We reduced by 27.7 percent in marketing administration. This reduction in the Assistant Deputy Minis- ter's Office resulted in a branch consolidation and the loss of one position. We've reorganized to meet our priorities.

We've also reduced 53 percent in Marketing Planning. A cut in these particular activities would not affect our current day-to-day operations. We've also canceled a literature review and a market modeling research. The remaining dollars which were used for one-time events such as the Pacific Asia Travel Mart and Dinoventure in 1990 were redistributed to other areas within the marketing division. The marketing area is undergoing a reduction in operation of the travel information centres, with most centres remaining open until Thanksgiving in 1991.

The Calgary and Edmonton field information centres as well as the Milk River Travel Information and Interpretative Centre will remain open on a year-round basis. Last year the information centres were open year-round on a trial basis, and survey results indicated that about 85 percent of all inquiries were made during the summer season while 15 percent of the inquiries were spread over the rest of the year. It is not cost-effective to keep the travel information centres open on a year-round basis under the present method of operation.

We reduced some 34.9 percent to the Team Tourism Adminis- tration, and this will be tota lly taken over by TIAALTA in this coming year. We've reduced 9.3 percent to meetings market- ing. This is one area where the private sector is very active, and the expertise is growing rapidly. At the same time, we have maintained representatives in New York, Chicago, Wash- ington, Geneva, although we've reduced activities in Chicago and New York. We will continue on our client identification role, a role which is currently held by government, and we will reduce advertising support in favour of maintaining salability.

Some support will be reduced for special promotions. We have reduced 13.7 percent in advertising, but by partici- pating in joint ventures and relying on our advertising expertise, we're going to do more with less. We'll work with what we have and limit our new creative work, and we will reduce our production costs somewhat while maintaining quality campaigns throughout the advertising and marketing. Before I close, Mr. Chairman, let's talk for a minute about new initiatives. We're looking forward to new things, new successes.

We'll be working side by side with the industry to create a future vision through the framework of Tourism 2000: a Vision for the Future. As a major economic industry tourism is also participating in the conference on the economy this fall. We're now completing two studies on resident and nonresident tourists in Alberta, which will give Alberta industry a leading edge, and we're working with our private sector to substantially increase the number of trade shows this year in our national and international markets.

Through teamwork and doing more with less, we will be involved in 31 trade shows this year, an increase from 20 shows in 1990. We are working on a team effort with the federal government to establish a new interna- tional marketing agreement which should add approximately $2 million a year to our marketing budget.

We will plan to reach new heights in the Team Tourism program; the community tourism action program; the business development projects; the number of communities to complete action plans; the number of regional tourism action plans; the number of trade shows, as I've mentioned before; and increased marketing efforts. With the recently a nnounced results of the Trail of the Great Bear, we're looking at an important tourism trail which will link major national parks in Canada and the United States.

We are now working with the northern Alberta mayors on a joint venture to identify the investment and marketing opportunities in the north. As well, an innovative new training program on travel information centres will help Alberta's tourism centres work towards becoming self-su fficient in all areas of the province. There are many excellent examples of travel informa- tion centres that are site self-sufficient with built-in opportunities for profit in cities such as Ca lgary and Drumheller, in towns throughout Alberta such as Rycroft. We encourage our partners

May 10, 1991 Alberta Hansard 1143 in all tourism ventures to pursue only those tourism projects that are site self-sufficient. That's the first question we ask when we are approached by an entrepreneur or a community. Tourism will certainly continue as a leader in the diversifica- tion of this province, and I'm looking forward to more team initiatives with industry, especia lly, as I mentioned, in market- ing. Our budget in 1991-92 shows a commitment to fiscal restraint and an even stronger commitment to industry growth. Mr.

Chairman, I'm pleased to invite the Member for Calgary- Fish Creek to supplement my remarks in his position as the new chairperson for the Alberta Tourism Education Council. MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Order please. Just prior to proceeding, could we have unanimous consent to revert briefly to Introduction of Special Guests? HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Opposed? The Member for Lacombe. head: Introduction of Special Guests (reversion) MR. MOORE: Thanks, Mr. Chairman. It's a pleasure to introduce to you and through you to members of the Legislature 59 students from the Lacombe Christian school.

They're accompanied by t eachers Anita Zudhof, Steve Stuka, and Denis Hainsworth. They're seated in the members' gallery, and I'd ask them now to rise and receive the traditional welcome of the Legislature. MR. SPARROW: Mr. Chairman, since we've reverted to introductions, I'd like to take this opportunity to intr oduce Deputy Minister of Tourism Bernie Campbell; assistant deputy ministers Peter Crerar, Bill Warren, Jim Engel, John Zylstra; and our staff in Tourism. Thanks for all the good work last year, and we're looking forward to a great year in the future. MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr.

Minister. head: Committee of Supply head: Main Estimates 1991-92 Tourism (continued) MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: The Member for Calgary-Fish Creek. MR. PAYNE: Mr. Chairman, thank you. As the minister quite properly pointed out, I'm almost a new kid on the block when it comes to Tourism and specifically the Tourism Educa- tion Council, having been in that job just a few weeks. Therefore, I appreciated the time the minister took today to cover some of the things that the council does.

I should, however, in addition point out to some of the members in the House today that on page 326 of your estimates book is a very succinct and useful

summary of the work of ATEC, and for those of you who aren't familiar with the Tourism Education Council, I would refer you to that page in the estimates book. 11:20 I welcomed also the minister's quite appropriate reference to my two predecessors: Stockwell Day, the Member for Red Deer-North, and Brian Evans, the Member for Banff-Cochrane. It goes without saying that that's two pairs of shoes that'll be very difficult for the incumbent now to fill, but I'll give it a good shot. I might mention also, Mr.

Chairman and members of the committee, that in recent days as I've oriented myself to the work of ATEC, I've chaired a two-day meeting with the members of council, 16 largely private-sector participants in the process. I'm certainly heartened by what I see in terms of their commitment, their experience, and how prepared they are to marshall their efforts in the be nefits of tourism education in Alberta. I might also mention, Mr. Chairman, that I have obviously met with all the staff of ATEC on more than one occasion, and I'm frankly very impressed with the calibre and commitment of the staff at ATEC.

For those of you who may not have recognized them in the galleries today, perhaps I could take a moment to point out that the executive director of ATEC, Susan Dowler, is, I believe, above my left shoulder in the members' gallery, and Project Manager Rick Baker is with us also, in the public gallery. I might ask those two people to stand and be recognized by the Assembly. Now, even though I'm fairly new to the task, Mr. Chairman, I would like to share with the members of the committee today results of my recent research and review of the estimates and what in fact is ahead.

I might mention that much of what I'm about to say impacts, obviously, the province as a whole, but I daresay that it's safe to say that most, if not all, the constituen- cies represented by the members on both sides of the Assembly here today directly or indirec tly will see the be nefits of the programs whose estimates they're reviewing this morning. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make, first of all, a comment with respect to the obvious need we have to attract the right kinds of people to the business.

Whether we're talking about bellhops, bartenders, hotel desk clerks, hotel managers, restaurant food servers – whatever we're talking about – I think it's obvious that if we're to build a long-term, healthy, vibrant industry that affects very positively tourists to our province, we need to exert considerable efforts to attract first-class people to the tourism industry. In order to do that, we've joined forces with TIAALTA, the Tourism Industry Association of Alberta, to promote tourism hospitality industry careers to our high school students across Alberta.

This program, slated to start in several months, September of 1991, marks a concentrated effort to attract the best and the brightest of our young people to attractive careers, rewarding careers in tourism. Now, ATEC has also been working closely with Alberta Education and the Minister of Education to co-ordinate input for the design and development of a tourism curriculum to be introduced in Alberta's high schools in the fall of 1992.

That's still a year and a half away, and even though it's not directly involved with the estimates today, I knew that members of the committee would want to be aware of that development in our high schools in 1992. We're also successful in launching the development of some 20 new tourism programs at the postsecondary level. Now, this is especially significant, Mr. Chairman, when you consider that in Alberta we have currently about a hundred thousand people employed in the tourism industry and that number is expected to double by the year 2000.

To put it another way, nine years from now here in Alberta we could have as many as 200,000 people involved in the tourism sector. Now, tourism is not only a major employer in our economy, Mr. Chairman; it's an industry that holds great promise for employment well into the future. In other words, it's an industry

1144 Alberta Hansard May 10, 1991 that holds long-term promise for Alberta. This is no short-term consideration that's before the members today. It's essential that we reach potential tourism employees now as well and prepare them for a successful future in this flourishing industry. The education council, Mr. Chairman, is also striving to reach people that are already involved inside the industry. We want to make them aware of the need for professionalism and how they as employees can benefit from providing visitors with exceptional service.

I think it's fair to say that all of us in the Assembly this morning want all of our tourists, especially from outside of the province and from outside of our country, to come to our province and as they leave observe to themselves and to others, "This has been a great travel experience," not only because of the obvious tourism features that this province offers, not only for its institutions and its major tourism related events, but primarily because of its people. If I could be permitted a personal digression, Mr.

Chairman: my wife and I spent a few days in Tennessee last August, and we have a great desire to return, not because of the country, not because of the great events and other tourism facilities but because of the people that were there. The people i nvolved in the tourism business created just a great desire on the part of myself and others that I was tr aveling with to return. That's exactly the kind of thing that we want to foster and to develop and to build here in Alberta.

So we need to make those of our people who are involved in the industry aware of the need for professionalism and how they as employees can benefit from providing visitors with excep- tional service. To put it another way: by increasing the hospitality skills of those in our hospitality and tourism industry, not only does our economy bene fit, not only do our tourists benefit but perhaps most importantly our own employees within that sector obviously benefit as well.

To that end, then, we're working closely with Alberta Tourism to co-ordinate industry input for the design and development of the innovative Alberta Best program. This program, which was launched just last fall, is designed to teach all Albertans to give visitors their Alberta best. I would encourage the members of the Assembly here and their families and friends and acquaintances and constituents to join with us in this provincewide effort to give our Alberta best to those who visit our province. I might mention, Mr.

Chairman, that response to our Alberta Best training seminars, which began in January, has been excellent. Already more than 20 organizations across the province have signed up as seminar sponsors. Over 30 seminars have been held with close to 700 participants, and we've been hearing extremely positive things from them. This fall the Alberta Best public awareness campaign will be launched, and we're excited to be spreading the word about hospitality excellence to the rest of the province. Now, Mr.

Chairman, I'd like to say thanks to the ATEC people who developed quite a few other notes for me to use today, but in view of the fact we have but 90 minutes remaining and because of, I think, our shared interest in seeing the opposition Tourism critic as well as other members participate in the debate, I would like to just conclude by suggesting that I will be sending to the members additional information and would like to reassure the memb ers of the Assembly that I'm available by phone or by letter or by note for any information on ATEC.

Obviously, I'd be proud and happy to share the efforts and the information about that fine organization with the members of this Assembly. Thanks for the opportunity to participate. Chairman's Ruling Speaking Time MR.

DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Just before recognizing West Yellowhead, I would like to thank the Member for Calgary-Fish Creek for his reference to the need for having time for other members to speak and just perhaps hesitantly but nevertheless remind the committee that it is customary to stay within the 30 minutes in presenting the initial statement from the department, unless of course there are two ministers involved. Debate Continued MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: The Member for West Yellowhead. MR. DOYLE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will do my best to stay within those 30 minutes, and I can assure you I will. Mr.

Chairman, I'd like to first begin by congratulating the minister on another full year. He came through almost totally unscathed, I guess, by the amount of questions that were asked by the Official Opposition and the members of the Liberal Party. I think the minister must have done a good job, but this could, of course, never have been done without the help and support of such good people as your Deputy Minister, Bernie Campbell. I think Bernie, and his staff of course, had to work pretty hard to keep the minister on line this year after all the complaints we had last year.

It certainly must be a benefit to the minister. I thank Mr. Campbell and his staff for assisting the minister on good behaviour and good spending in the past year. 11:30 Mr. Chairman, I would also like to thank the executive director of the Alberta Tourism Education Council, Susan Dowler, and wish her long su ccess as a very great promoter of education for the young people who have chosen to be involved in the tourism industry in the province of Alberta. Susan has a great record over the years of listening and performing properly when it comes to educa tion of those involved in the tourism industry. [Mr.

Moore in the Chair] Tourism is the third largest industry in the province today. I did have high hopes that tourism would be in first place by the year 2000, but after going through the budget estimates this year, Mr. Chairman, I have some doubts and some worry and some concerns that because of the increase in fuel taxes, the speedways to get through the border to the United States that have been promoted by the federal government, the GST – all these things are going to not be very easy on promoting people to come to Alberta.

In fact, this morning I did recognize on the news that the chambers of commerce from Montana were in Alberta. Many of them said when they arrived that they thought Lethbridge was a very fine place to visit and was very remarkable but had never heard of it because of not e nough promotion from the communities of southern Alberta to advertise Alberta in the United States. However, I did find that under public works there's been somewhere over $4 million spent at West Glacier, Montana: another $2.4 million spent this year, $1.7 million last year, and $140,000 I believe it was the year before, Mr. Chairman.

We have not spoken about this before, but I'd like to ask the minister to respond as to why he's never mentioned this money spent for a tourism information centre in West Glacier, Montana. How many Canadian people or Albertans could in fact be

May 10, 1991 Alberta Hansard 1145 employed that far south of the Canadian border and how many tax dollars would be returned to Alberta, except for the odd person coming that route and being encouraged to come into Canada? Mr. Chairman, I'd also like to congratulate the Member for Calgary-Fish Creek for his appointment as chairman of the Alberta education council. I did have some thoughts when he said that he was the new kid on the block; that's the first time I ever heard of a new kid on the block to be sitting in the Legislature and drawing a pension at the same time.

I truly hope and I'm sure the Official Opposition truly hopes that the Member for Calgary-Fish Creek does not waste Alberta taxpayers' money on a world trip like the member previous to him, the Member for Red Deer-North, who traveled the world. I never did hear in this Legislature what he accomplished or what he learned or what the benefit was to the taxpayers of Alberta after touring around the world at taxpayers' expense. As a taxpayer I wonder what we did accomplish by the member traveling for such a great time overseas and not reporting back to anybody as to what benefit it was to Albertans. Mr.

Chairman, I do find that the 5 percent increase . . . Point of Order Relevance MR. DAY: A point of order, Mr. Chairman. MR. ACTING DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Hon. member, a point of order. MR. DAY: The citation in Beauchesne regarding relevance. The particular trip that he's talking about had nothing to do with the Department of Tourism. He doesn't read the newspa- per. He doesn't read the information he's sent. He has a hard time reading the speeches that are wr itten for him now. That had nothing to do with the Department of Tourism. Relevance, member, relevance. MR. ACTING DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Carry on, hon. member. MR.

DOYLE: Mr. Chairman, these are written in my own handwriting. [interjections] I didn't waste taxpayers' money on research on such wasteful projects as what this member did. MR. ACTING DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Order. Would you please address the Chair. This cross House conversation just doesn't go. Debate Continued MR. DOYLE: Mr. Chairman, the 1989-1990 annual report of Alberta Tourism stated that on March 30, 1990, the Canada/Alberta tourism agreement was ended, and the minister will remember that I met with him and the deputy minister in his office.

I had learned this, but I wonder if the member could explain to me why there's just about $3.8 million under Canada/Alberta Tourism Agreement. I don't know whether this is a carryover. I'm not too sure whether the project has started up again or why this almo st $4 million is in the budget this year; it's only cut by 2.3 percent. Mr. Chairman, indeed the community tourism action plan was one of the greatest plans that was ever put forward by the Department of Tourism. Communities all over Alberta have had a great benefit from the community tourism action plan.

In fact, I sat on the committee and was one of the first to have it completed for the community by such good people as Rita Stelter and many other people in the community of Edson who are real shakers and movers who could see what was necessary in tourism in that area. They certainly benefited greatly from that particular project.

There's $115,000 in that budget this year, and I was wondering if the minister was perhaps looking at some continuation of a program such as that for those who did not benefit and had extra ideas within their communities, or if there was money left over in some other department that could assist them to further develop some tourism action plan goals. Indeed, it has helped in my riding with many facilities, especially a park for RVs on the east side of Edson. I would hope that many people will be using these facilities, because the taxpayers have put quite a few dollars into them.

Under the Canada/Alberta Tourism Agreement, Mr. Chair- man, 2.4.3, Alpine Ski Facility Development. We've had some serious accidents in the past in these alpine ski facilities. I'm wondering if this is into heli-skiing or is this just normal skiing like many of us do in Jasper, Banff, and anyplace we can find good skiing when we do find an hour or two to enjoy private life with our families. Mr. Chairman, if we go to vote 3, the Tourism Education Council has an increase of 18.8 percent. As a member of the Official Opposition I have no qualms with that.

Indeed, we have to assist these young people who for some reason – some of them, I would say – have fallen through the cracks or left school and chosen to go into restaurant services and hotel cleaning and all these different types of services and do need upgrading and training, upgrading perhaps also in education. In fact, in the province of B.C. – I wonder how close we are in Alberta to some of their figures in the Trade and Commerce magazine of April '91. The B.C. tourism industry accounts for 103,000 jobs, but it has been an inherent weakness as a source of employment income.

Low wages, for instance: workers receive an average salary of $244 per week compared to the provincial average of $507 per week. I would hope that through this spending of the Tourism Education Council and the upgrading of these yo ung people many of their salaries will increase and, in fact, the prof its for the facilities in which they're employed will increase. I believe that proper training under this department will assist those people. Vote 3.0.2, Standards Development.

It's my understanding in speaking with the minister outside the Legislature that we now have completed the standards development and we know each trade, one by one, in the tourism i ndustry. I was wonder- ing: is that the reason, Mr. Chairman, why a lot of the money has now been handed over to Employee Certification? Will that now bring them up to traini ng on some kind of training program, apprenticeship program, or whatever to make sure they have their certificates like many tradespeople like myself have after going through training and educational programs?

I would hope that there would be certificates for these young people, because indeed it's not always their fault that they have fallen through the cracks and ended up in this low gutter of employ- ment. I hope we can continue to encourage them to continue and do better. In fact, it would help the industries they work in, because the more they work and the more professional they are, the more money their companies or the people they work for in hotels will make. 11:40 Mr. Chairman, I was looking at the Tourism Industry Associa- tion of Alberta's report from their great president, Joe Couture, from Jasper.

Indeed he questions the 14.1 percent cutback in

1146 Alberta Hansard May 10, 1991 the Alberta Tourism budget. Cuts to marketing and industry development come at a critical time in Alberta's future, a time which should be devoted to increasing Alberta's image as an international tourism destination. In fact, he'd like to point out we should wear red on Monday, and I'm sure some members of the Legislature will wear red on Monday, May 13, the kickoff to National Tourism Awareness Week, to show that they're a part of the tourism team. Mr.

Chairman, I do have to question, though, on one resolution they have – in fact, it comes from the area of my riding – and that's the twinning of Highway 16 through Jasper national park. I'm on record more than once as saying that I cannot support this resolution. I believe those parks were built for Canadians to enjoy, and it will be the decision of Parks Canada and the Canadian government whether twinning is done through Jasper national park.

I can assure you that many people and many of the citizens in Jasper and area will not support the twinning in Jasper park, and I would hope that the minister does not take this resolution seriously. In fact, if the minister wants to be involved in something, perhaps he should look at years ago when they moved the natives from Jasper national park and gave them no settlement, that they in fact spend that money to settle that issue that's long overdue rather than wasting money on twinning highways and putting up fences that will cause people not to stop but rather to just rush right through.

It does always seem to be a problem, Mr. Chairman, with one department and another. Transportation, of course, is the one that builds highways, and of course it is good to have nice highways in Alberta for tourists to travel on, but four lanes kind of whisk them right through into the next province. Run them through quickly is the attitude of transportation sometimes,

whereas Tourism believes, and I believe, that we should have highways close to communities where people can pull in, stop, spend their dollars, stay overnight, and in fact enhance all those communities along the highways. Putting a four-lane through Jasper park would not allow our children in the future to enjoy the things that we have enjoyed through that park and in fact have people drive slowly and carefully and enjoy what has been preserved for them by future leaders in this country. Mr.

Chairman, I would say that a better resolution in fact in that particular area – transportation does have a lot to do with Tourism Alberta – would be to repair such roads as Highway 40 between Hinton and Cadomin to bring people into that great tourism area over the Cardinal River Divide down into the Rocky Mountain House area and Nordegg and those particular areas. Once they got to the Cardinal River Divide they'd probably turn around and come back if they had a good highway though. It is great country and great scenery down in that particular area, very remote, and many people haven't visited it.

I would hope that that tourism association would look at supporting the upgrading of Highway 40 between Hinton and Cadomin, because it was staked during the last election. It never was repaired, and tourists constantly complain about the horrible condition of that road. It's just a mess, and petition after petition, letter after letter have gone to the minister. The stakes have fallen down and polluted the roadways, but nothing has been spent on repairing that road where people go to work and tourists try to go to see the beautiful country in the Coal Branch. They wreck their vehicles.

Perhaps that helps garages, but it doesn't help the tourists to return to that particular area. Also, Mr. Chairman, last night I attended a meeting in Edson with the committee of municipal administrators from across the province who are meeting in Edson doing some courses. I was asked by some people from Fort Saskatchewan to ask if Tourism or Tourism and culture combined were putting money into the old Fort Saskatchewan jail. They certainly would like to see something done in that area. I believe they had plans sent into the government some time ago; I recall reading something about that.

I'm very pleased, of course, Mr. Chairman, to see that Grande Cache in my constituency is pushing forward to develop a ski hill through the private sector. Perhaps they'll need some assistance on road construction or signage or other Tourism funding in getting this ski hill to go ahead, if in fact it is financially viable. I was also looking through the Minister of Federal and Intergovernmental's annual report, Mr. Chairman, showing the tourism offices in different parts of the world. I was quite surprised to see offices in Asia and overseas, Europe, Hong Kong.

Only .7 percent of the people that come to Alberta actually come from Hong Kong, and I believe we have facilities in that area. It must be an awful expense to the taxpayers with very little return. Japan, of course, has a return of tourists to Alberta of 4.63 percent of the tourists that in fact come to Alberta. It was very noticeable to see that of the tourists that come to Alberta, 82.2 percent actually come from the United States.

I think there are natural trips that people take by following a world atlas or whatever promotional material they might have, but certainly we're not attracting many by having these very expensive offices in many of these countries. In fact only 5 percent of our tourists come from the United Kingdom, which is not that far offshore. One very displeasing thing, Mr. Chairman, was the fact that in a recent promotional magazine put out called Travel and Leisure that has been funded through a tourism promotional grant of $320,000 through the Western Diversification Office – they put out this book in the United States.

I've talked with them over the past weeks and asked them why they did not include the Yellowhead Highway on their particular maps for when people travel through western Canada. Many pieces of it are left out. It's very discouraging to the municipalities all along the way. Alberta Tourism, in fact, has a number in there, so obviously they've had some contacts with them, and if they have those contacts, why was the Yellowhead Highway not included in that map?

Will the minister try and have those people retract that magazine and put out another one free of charge to the people and point out what a great area it is to travel on the Yellowhead Highway? The Yellowhead Highway Association is very proud of their hard work as volunteers to promote the Yellowhead Highway. In fact, the Deputy Prime Minister made it the north Canadian route through western Canada, and now it's not even on the maps that are sent around the world and around the United States for people to come into Alberta. Mr.

Chairman, I was reading also in the annual report of Tourism that a study was done on the Kinky Lake development some time ago. I would like to ask the minister if he can supply me with a copy of that study on the development at Kinky Lake or inform me whether it would be in the library or where I could receive a copy of that study to the Kinky Lake project because many people are concerned about it. The environmentalists, as the minister I am sure is aware, are concerned about the salamanders. The area has been used by many people freely on hikes and trails and for their family picnics.

Many of these people are concerned that a development will take place there that will wreck the environment of that particular area. I would like to see a copy of that particular study that was paid for by the taxpayers of Alberta so that I can share it with those people who are so deeply concerned. I have, in fact, met with the developer and with environmentalists like Gadd and Rocky

May 10, 1991 Alberta Hansard 1147 *This spelling could not be verified at the time of publication. Notnes from Hinton, Tom Rycroft* , and others who are very concerned. Many of the councillors in Hinton have raised their concerns over this particular development. However, there's not very much information for us to compare with. 11:50 Mr. Chairman, in summing up, I think the minister would wonder what happened to me if I didn't mention that great and beautiful Bullet-nosed Betty from Jasper and its great leader, Harry Home, who has worked hard to preserve 6060.

I'd like to ask the minister what the plans are for 6060 as far as tourism and the Department of Tourism are concerned and if 6060 will be removed from Alberta to go to some train shows, I believe, in Santa Fe or in California, and what the fee is to go on that. How much is it going to cost the taxpayers for that particular trip to that great train show in the U.S.? And a guarantee that 6060 will be returned to its rightful pl ace – that is, to the town of Jasper where its great leader, Mr. Harry Home, can visit her every day and not be lonely. Mr.

Chairman, again I would like to compliment the people from the Department of Tourism and the minister for a job that I would say was quite well done over the last year. However, many people are concerned about the 14 percent cuts and wonder how much this is going to affect programs that they've planned on putting forward. In fact, I want to compliment the minister on watching the dollars that the taxpayers give to him for his department. MR. ACTING DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Calgary-North West. MR. BRUSEKER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'd like to begin with just a comment about the minister's opening com- ments with respect to tourism. He mentioned that this year he's anticipating a $2.7 billion, $3 b illion expenditure in Tourism compared to, I think he said, $2.59 billion last year; I believe those were the figures he quoted. Now, if we reflect upon the provincial throne speech of 1989, volumes 1 and 2, there was an indication, a direction there that the goal of the Department of Tourism was to have a $10 billion industry by the year 2000, which is a scant nine years away.

If we do some rough calculations based upon the figures quoted by the minister earlier today, the tourism industry might be a 4 b illion or 4 and a half billion dollar industry by the year 2000. [Mr. Jonson in the Chair] The reason I raise that is that I believe that tourism is an appropriate industry to be promoting; I think it is an appropriate industry for Alberta. We've got some terrific natural resources that are world renowned already, and I'm a little concerned when I hear the minister saying there's growth but not quite as much as what was originally pr edicted, I guess.

So my initial question to the minister is: given the kinds of projections that I see happening, how are we going to overcome the shortfall? I raise it not only from a business standpoint but also that if we have a $10 billion i ndustry in tourism, there's a terrific potential, of course, for revenue not just for the Department of Tourism but for the entire government as well. If we have a $10 billion industry in the province and the taxes that would be created, boy, it would sure go a long way to ensuring a balanced budget down the road. Too bad it won't be this year, but that's another issue.

So I guess that's an opening comment. I support the concept of the development of tourism. I think that the province as a whole, the Alberta public, supports the concept of tourism, and it needs to be developed and promoted a little bit. The minister said that this year there was a 14 percent cutback, and I'm troubled by that, b ecause I think that tourism is something we should be promoting even more. When I look at a budget of $27 million and realize that most of that $27 million is going to come from hotel room taxation, it looks to me like the industry is basically supporting itself.

So I'm a little concerned when we see a reduction in a direction that was supposed to be a major direction of this government. There's a reduction in the expenditure, and I think a reduction, there- fore, in commitment to helping develop tourism. There were a number of things that the minister referred to in his opening comments, and I would like to just raise some issues as well with respect to tourism. I recognize that part of the problem in terms of economic diversification is always a saw-off between one type of development versus another type of development.

The development I'm referring to, of course – and the minister made some comment about northern develop- ment, tourism developments, and so forth. But some of the studies that have come out of the University of Calgary have suggested that as a result of pulp mill development in northern Alberta we'll see a net reduction of jobs in the tourism industry. My concern is the quality of job that is going to be created.

If you provide a job at a pulp mill that may last 50 years or 100 years, whatever the economic life is of that pulp mill, and you go in and clear cut all those trees and create that job in the pulp mill at the expense of a job in the tourism industry, then it seems to me that in the long run, looking at being stewards for the province of Alberta in the long haul, the net effect is that in fact it's going to be a negative impact on northern Alberta and the northern Alberta economy.

So my question to the minister, then, is really: could he give us some details in particular about northern tourism project development, especially in light of the pulp mill development that's coming on stream? Last year, of course, the provincial government in other departments was involved with the sale of the Cormie ranch, and there was some proposal at one point a bout a potential of a $1 billion total investment in the Cormie ranch, now owned by a company called Createm International Alberta Corporation.

Recently the news has not been particularly fa vourable with respect to the future direction of that project because the implication is that the market is not there. I'm wondering what kind of reaction or interaction or relation is happening between the Department of Tourism and Createm International in an attempt to promote that tourism project that was talked about and debated in this Legislature. In a similar vein but in a different part of the province, there have been a number of proposals made with respect to develop- ing the Bow corridor. I know that some of them are going ahead.

For example, the Hyatt Regency is planning on going ahead with their hotel development and condominium and so forth and golf course development. I'm wondering if the Department of Tourism in conjunction with Environment or in conjunction with Forestry, Lands and Wildlife or with other departments has looked at the viability of those accumulated projects. There's quite a number of proposals.

I'm wondering specifically what's happened with respect to environmental impact assessments, because these projects that are slated or at least considered for the Bow corridor area – this is around Canmore, and I know the minister is familiar with it – could have some very profound impact on the area in terms of water quality, in terms of air quality, in terms of land use. So there are a number of overlapping concerns, and I'm wondering if the minister has looked at that in particular.

1148 Alberta Hansard May 10, 1991 Another tourism development, at least the way I look at it, is the proposal for the Kananaskis golf course to expand and have a third 18-hole golf course down in the Kananaskis Valley. I'm wondering in particular if the Department of Tourism is planning an environmental impact assessment or a needs assessment, or what kind of market research has been or is planned on being done with respect to the development of that proposed golf course. This year marks the 50th anniversary of the completion of the Alaska Highway.

The celebration, as I understand it, is going to be called Rendezvous '92. It's being organized between British Columbia, Yukon, and Alaska, but the Department of Tourism in Alberta has chosen not to become involved. I guess Alberta is bound to be a route through which a number of these tourists are likely to travel to attend celebrations or drive the highway or whatever, and I'm really wondering why the government has chosen to not involve itself in this particular venture.

I think it's one that could have a terrific impact not only right now but down the road as well; down the road meaning in years not just down the road of the Alaska Highway. Those are some general comments that I would make. Turning in particular now to some of the votes that are before us, vote 1, Departmental Support Services really does not show much substantive change.

I think that's appropriate in light of the minister's comments, both this minister and the Treasurer, with respect to attempting at least to balance the budget, a small step in the right direction there, and I think we've got some good improvements. 12:00 I'm going to vote 2 fairly quickly here, because I think really that's the essence, the nuts and bolts of this particular depart- ment. The first comment I would like to make is with respect to the Assistant Deputy Minister's Office. I note that it appears in three different locations, 2.1.1., 2.2.1, and 2.3.1.

It shows in some areas going up, some areas going down, and I'm wondering if the minister could ta lk about that a little bit. He didn't refer specifically to th e role, and it seems there's a change in the role of that office, that individual, with respect to some of the directions. An increase in Planning, an increase in Industry and Business Development, yet a decrease in the Marketing

section – did I miss one? – so there's a bit of change in that area. When we look at the tourism planning area, Community Services is shown to be down by 15.8 percent, and I'm wondering if the minister could just sort of enlighten me a little bit here why we're seeing a reduction in that particular area. It seems to me that that could be something that's important, and I'm wondering if that's tied in in some way to being taken over by CTAP. Is that where that particular thing is going, that service is being provided? All right.

The Industry and Business Development area shows a drop of 36.8 percent, and I guess I am a little concerned about that because we see a number of areas that have been hard hit. Now, the minister has already referred to a regional generator, that just simply there's not the money available to be provided, so that was simply eliminated altogether. I can understand the minister's comment about having to cut somewhere. I wonder, though, if he might just elucidate a little more why that particular area was chosen simply to be eliminated completely.

There are other areas that have shown some declines, but this area was chosen to be simply wiped off the map, as it were, and so I wonder if the minister might make a little more comment with respect to its total elimination. Industry Organization and Development shows, again, a decrease of 45 percent, and similarly I'm a little concerned about that particular area as well. If we see a decrease of that extent, how are we going to get the message out to, first of all, Albertans and then to other Canadians, to other North Ameri- cans to get them in here? That leads us into my biggest, I guess, concern.

It deals with the marketing and the planning of that area. Overall we see for subvote 2.3 a reduction of 13.5 percent. Now, the minister made some comment that some of this is going to be going to TIAALTA. My concern with the Team Tourism program is not necessarily with the program itself; the concern I have is that the funding is going out of lottery funding. We've really only got part of the story here because lottery f unding is not shown in these budget books.

It's very difficult to make a comment and say, well, it's inappropriate to cut Advertising by 13.7 percent, for example, when we don't have the Team Tourism figures, on the other hand, to show us where the makeup is. Overall we see a total reduction, as I said, for Marketing of 13.5 percent in vote 2.3, and getting the message out, getting people aware of what we've got in Alberta – I mean, we know all about it here in the province, but there are other people out there in other provinces and in states in the United States that don't know about it. We've got to get the message out.

Marketing Planning shows a dramatic cut in excess of a million dollars, a 53 percent cutback. I like the minister's comment about doing more with less, but I'm really having to question how it is he anticipates being able to do more when you see cutbacks to that extent. Now, maybe they've identified the markets and they don't need to plan it that much. On the other hand, we see cuts further down in Advertising, we see cuts in Public Relations, we s ee cuts in Meetings/International Liaison, we see cuts in Team Tourism Administration, and we see, as I said, a net cut of 13 and a half percent.

I firmly believe that we have to be supporting and promoting our province to get the message out. I'm not persuaded by what I've heard from the minister today with respect to this topic of marketing that we're really going to get the message out to enough people to learn and want to come here, b ecause we've got to make them want to come. One of the comments from the Member for Calgary-Fish Creek, the new chairman of ATEC, was that one of the things he enjoyed so much about a trip – he went to that other country south of the line – was the quality of the service that he got.

That in itself – he comes back as a walking billboard, as it were. We need to do more of that in promoting our own province. Now, the Canada/Alberta tourism agreement. I must confess I'm really puzzled about this one. The minister did not make much comment at all, as I listened to what he was saying, with respect to the Canada/Alberta tourism agreement. My under- standing was that this program had expired last year. If the program has expired, then why do we have it in here at all? It's seems to me that it just doe sn't make a whole lot of sense. In particular, I look at some of the things under here.

Alpine Ski Facility Development: the minister didn't make any comment about that at all. A 424 percent increase, which dollarwise is not a big amount of dollars – it's $400,000 – but he obviously chose a substantial change in the commitment and the philosophy of this department under this particular vote. I'm wondering why that is. The reason I raise it is because earlier on I asked a question of the minister with respect to Fortress Mountain. The owner of Fortress Mountain would like to have the opportunity to develop a condominium resort plan. He doesn't want dollars from the government, doesn't want a grant,

May 10, 1991 Alberta Hansard 1149 doesn't want a loan guarantee or a loan. He just wants the permission to go ahead. So here it seems like we have a commitment on one hand to develop alpine facilities – and I'm not sure where or why or how – yet on the other hand a fellow who is already in place and would really like to have the opportunity to go ahead seems to be being stymied in his desire to proceed. I'm w ondering if the minister could make a comment in particular on vote 2.4.3., Alpine Ski Facility Development. I see that Administrative Support has gone down, under Canada/Alberta Tourism Agreement.

I presume that's related to the fact that this program is in decline, but it again seems rather unusual that we s hould have that administrative support at all when the program, I believe, has come to an end. Again I want to raise a concern that I've mentioned earlier: Market Development, a 68.4 percent reduction. Now, whether it's under Canada/Alberta Tourism Agreement or some other section, I think reducing Market Development while trying to attract more people to our province is the wrong way to go. We need to be increasing or at least maintaining the dollar expenditures.

If we've targeted one area and we've done really well in there, let's move on to another area, another area around the States, around North America, around the world, so we get more people knowing about what we've got. I don't see why we're cutting Market Development in that particular area. Vote 2.4.5. Again I'm a little puzzled right here. It can't even show a percentage increase because the number is such a terrific increase from what we had before. Training and Professional Development I thought would have fallen under vote 3, Tourism Education and Training.

So it seems we've got kind of a mixed message there. I wonder if the minister could tell me why he's planning on spending $606,000 under vote 2.4.5, which I believe should go more appropriately with the Tourism Education and Training area. Moving on to Industry and Community S upport, again a reduction here. Is that simply a reduction indicating again the end of the program, or why do we see such a drop in there? Tourism Education and Training I believe has been praised by the minister. It's been praised by the new chairman for ATEC. It's been praised by the Member for West Yellowhead.

I, too, would like to add my support for this program. Generally speaking, I have always been a supporter of education and training. I think that on the long road, regardless of the profession, education and training is an appropriate direction, so I applaud the direction of ATEC. I've had the opportunity to meet with the executive director and have been impressed by her dedication to ATEC. I think that it's an appropriate direction, and I applaud the minister and the department for that.

I think it's a terrific job that's being done, and that's really all I wanted to say on that particular area. 12:10 One question that I do have. On page 329 of the large book there's what's referred to as the Tourism Revolving Fund. I note that on the previous page it said, "the legislative authority for this revolving fund expires on March 31, 1992," not quite a year away, and the minister again did not make any comment with respect to this particular fund. I did want to raise two questions. Question number one is : is it anticipated that the revolving fund will, in fact, expire on March 31 of 1992?

The second question that I had in here was with respect to Promo- tional Materials. Under Tourism Revolving Fund there's a mention of $266,000 revenue from the sale of promotional materials and an expenditure of $224,000 to create, I presume, or print promotional materials. I'm wondering if the minister could explain a little bit about to whom and for whom these materials are produced in the first place and then sold.

I note that last year there was an anticipated profit of $142,000, so it's going to make money, but I'm wondering if the minister could just kind of clear that up a little bit for where we're going down the road. Just really to sum up, I think that the minister has referred to a number of good directions. He's talked about an increase in the number of trade shows from 20 last year, in 1990, to anticipated participation in 31 tr ade shows this year. I think that's a good improvement, but I think it's not just trade shows; I think it's advertising.

I think about the times when I turn on the television set to watch the news, and I see advertisements on the TV from other states or other provinces saying to come to that state or that province. Of course, that's appropriate for those areas to be doing, to promote what they've got, but I sure hope that we can do more of that kind of advertising, because I'm proud to be a resident and a representative here in Alberta. I think we've got a terrific provi nce, but I think we do need to really get out there and get the message out to more people and bring them into what is a terrifi c province.

I'd really like to see this minister strive, I think, a little harder for that $10 billion goal that he'd like to have by the year 2000, because I think tourism is something that is going to keep us going after the oil and gas are gone and we don't have that revenue. We've got to have something to replace it. I think tourism is probably the best long-term direction that we can go, and I think that we should on this side of the House, and hopefully his colleagues in cabinet, support him in promoting tourism in the future. Thank you. MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: The Member for Grande Prairie. DR. ELLIOTT: Thank you, Mr.

Chairman. I'd like to pick up on a couple of items from the previous speaker, particularly in support of some of his comments about the funding of some very good programs and those funds apparently coming out of Alberta Lotteries programs. I have some

preamble before I get into my question. My concern is with the comm unity tourism action plan and, of course, the Team Tourism program, as has been mentioned, because these two programs are extremely important in our Grande Prairie area.

Speaking again with two hats – I'll be speaking with the hat of an MLA for the Grande Prairie constituency as well as chairman of the Northern Alberta Development Council – we've been making some pretty good plans in the area for economic growth and diversification through tourism, because we happen to think that tourism is one of the largest potentials we have for diversification, for growth. Up to this point we think it's been almost one of the best kept secrets that we have in the north , that there is something there for tourists to see and for tourists to do.

We're supposed to cash in on these opportunities lying right there at our doorstep, and using these two programs, the community tourism action plan and Team Tourism, is one way of bringing these assets right into reality. When it comes to marketing, Team Tourism of course is our key program and provides much-needed guidance and assistance in the marketing of the various capital development projects that we have under way.

Through this program we've also seen groups of tourism operators and organizations coming together for the first time in a whole new sector of the industry to promote their activities with matched tourism dollars from these

1150 Alberta Hansard May 10, 1991 programs. I don't believe we'd otherwise see this level of co- operation if these funds weren't there and this program wasn't in place. As chairman of the Northern Alberta Development Council I'd like to stress the importance of the two programs right clean across the north. We're making excellent headway in develop- ing tourism in some areas of our energy sector and our promotion programs with industr y.

In fact, on May 14 and 15 the Northern Alberta Development Council is co-sponsoring a seminar at Lesser Slave Lake to provide more information to tourist operators and to communities on how best to . . . [interjections] Yes, Lesser Slave Lake. I pronounced that correctly. MS CALAHASEN: It's Slave Lake. DR. ELLIOTT: It's Slave Lake? Through the community tourism action plan process the MLA for Lesser Slave Lake will be in Slave Lake taking an active

part in this program. Two hundred and eighty-five communities and municipalities have completed their tourism action plans. Of these, 168 are northern Alberta communities, and we're turning tourism into an economic development opportunity. We have destination resorts that have been prepared for several regions, including Cold Lake, Lesser Slave Lake, Dunvegan, and Lakeland. As well, this planning activity has made way for some very innovative private-sector planning projects, such as the Trumpeter regional initiative project in the Grande Prairie area. Now, the minister made reference to the northern mayors.

They're working in co- operation with the Alberta government to prepare a tourism study of the north, which of course will reveal more of these good opportunities I'm referring to. I would like to make reference to some of the things that have been put together to show how the plan has worked and the good things that are coming out of it. We can talk about a proposed zoo project in P eace River, the i nnovative old western theme town called Em Te Town, near Alder Flats. For anybody who hasn't seen Alder Flats, there's an opportunity for a tour.

The Capital City raceway which opens tonight in Edmonton is a product of this program; ski resort projects in Hardisty and Barrhead; the Reynolds transportation museum in Wetaskiwin; the revitalization and historic redevelopment in Sexsmith; events such as the Golden Walleye Classic at Lesser Slave Lake and the major ball tournaments at Edson; Fort George-Buckingham House; the theatre project at Grande Prairie; a Cree interpretive centre at Grouard; backcountry lodges and wildlife lodges near Grande Cache, Fort McMurray, and Fort Vermilion; the family resorts of Goose Hummock near Gibbons, Half Moon dude ranch near Cooking Lake, Mighty Peace on the P eace River; as well as resorts at Cold Lake, Grande Prairie, Eden Lake, and Hinton.

There's a tremendous level of tourism activity in the north, and this is as a result of good, solid planning as these opportu- nities come. Our tourism industry is indeed growing. We're laying the groundwork, and we're watching our economy strengthen through tourism. We're setting up the infrastructure, we're expanding our accommodations and services, we're developing innovative tourism proj ects, and we are promoting ourselves. We have been working hard, and we're working in a co-ordinated direction, thanks to the guidance of the depart- ment being reviewed this morning.

For that reason, I feel the community tourism action program and Team Tourism program hold particular meaning to the tourism industry in our part of the province. Both these programs emphasize co-operation and planned economic growth. They are both vital to our tourism industry in the north. I know that in your contribution to a balanced budget for Albertans you have cut tourism dollars to the administration in the Team Tourism program, but as other speakers have said, we have to do everything possible to defend those programs and keep funding in pl ace or have f unding restored. These pro- grams are beneficial.

We have to keep them. They contribute to the long-term economic growth of the regions of Alberta. They strengthen the entrepreneurial base and the tourism industry. My question to the minister: can he tell what effect the budget reductions will have on the support given to tourism operators through the community tourism action plan and the Team Tourism marketing program? My other question to the minister is that we have for many years been attempting to get his department to establish a regional office, or a single one-person office at least, somewhere in northern Alberta.

I'm strongly recommending Grande Prairie as a place where he can maintain contact with the entire north on the major issues that we are referring to this morning. His is o