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May 3,

SOCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE

The

Committee met at 9:07 a.m. in the Assembly Chamber.

Pursuant to Standing Order 68, Derek Bennett, MHA for Lewisporte Twillingate,

substitutes for Lisa Dempster, MHA for Cartwright L'Anse au Clair.

CHAIR (Reid):

Okay, if everyone's ready

we're going to get started now.

Lisa

was unable to make it today, so I'm filling in for her. I'm Scott Reid, the MHA

for St. George's Humber.

First

thing we'll do is we'll get everyone to introduce themselves. We'll start with

the minister and his officials and then we'll move around the room.

MR. TRIMPER:

Thank you very much, Mr.

Chair.

On my

starboard side is Glenn Branton. He's the CEO of the Labour Relations Board. The

port side to my left is Geoff Williams just staying with the nautical theme

is the CEO for the Labour Relations Agency. To his left is Robyn Hayes, the

departmental controller. Behind me is Ian Murphy he's my executive assistant

and Emily Timmins, a very capable communications director, right behind me.

That's

our team.

CHAIR:

Okay.

MR. MORGAN:

Ivan Morgan, Researcher, NDP caucus.

MS. DRODGE:

Megan Drodge, Researcher, Official Opposition caucus.

MR. PETTEN:

Barry Petten, MHA for CBS and Labour Relations critic.

MS. HALEY:

Carol Anne Haley, MHA, Burin Grand Bank.

MR. BENNETT:

Taking up the stern, I guess, Derek Bennett, MHA, Lewisporte Twillingate,

filling in for Lisa Dempster.

MR. LANE: Paul

Lane, MHA, Mount Pearl Southlands.

CHAIR: Before

we get started, I just wanted to remind everyone, just for the records because

we don't have a video record, to state your name before you respond for the

Hansard people so we're able

to keep track of that.

I guess

we just start calling the first subhead.

CLERK (Ms. Proudfoot):

Subhead 1.1.01.

MR. TRIMPER:

Mr. Chair, if I could, could

I take a few minutes just perhaps to I have a couple of prepared paragraphs

just on what the agency and the board does, if people are interested I could

read that. Is that okay?

CHAIR:

Sure.

MR. TRIMPER:

First of all, the Labour

Relations Agency supports and promotes positive employment relationships in the

workplace dispute resolution services.

The

agency provides a number of services to unionized and non-unionized employees

and employers throughout the province that fall under provincial jurisdiction.

The agency has 21 staff under the direction of a chief executive officer and has

three lines of business: Labour Standards, Labour Relations and Policy and

Planning. These services include: protection of the basic labour rights of all

employees and employers throughout the administration and enforcement of the

Labour Standards Act which

Shops Closing Act which sets the

observance of holidays when most shops must be closed.

Another

service is the supports for employees and employers who operate within the

framework of the collective bargaining system, as set out in the province's

Labour Relations Act and other

collective bargaining legislation; provides conciliation, preventative mediation

and interest-based negotiation services to employers and employees creating

partnerships to promote the currency and relevance of the employment relations

legislation.

Finally, it's the administrative and human resource support to the Standing Fish

Price Setting Panel and policy and budgetary support for related entities.

The

work of the agency contributes to the economic and social well-being of all

employees and employers in the province, given that a positive employment

relations climate makes a significant contribution to future economic growth.

It's

just an interesting note that last year there was not a single strike of legal

lockout position. We hope to maintain that record but we're not sure.

Just to

comment on the Labour Relations Board, the Newfoundland and Labrador Labour

Relations Board, represented by Glenn here beside me, is an independent

quasi-judicial body which contributes to and promotes harmonious labour

relations in the province by adjudicating and mediating in a variety of

employment and labour relations matters under 10 statutes.

addition to the above, the board will have the responsibilities under the Act to

Amend the Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador Atlantic Accord Implementation

Newfoundland and Labrador Act when proclaimed.

The primary mandate of the

board is to resolve labour relations and employment disputes in accordance with

its jurisdiction. The board meets regularly to review and determine it's not

limited to applications for certification, applications for revocation, unfair

labour practices, successor rights, common employer, imposition of first

collective agreements, complaints related to the duty of fair representation,

appeals of the occupational and safety orders, review of labour standards

determinations, discriminatory action under the

Occupational Health and Safety Act ,

designation of essential employees, unfair labour practice complaints and other

issues within its jurisdiction.

The

board's primary objectives are the fair and efficient processing of applications

and the rendering of decisions which are clear, consistent and in accordance

with legal principles. The board employs seven staff with the direction of a

chief executive officer, with budgetary support provided in conjunction with the

Labour Relations Agency.

CHAIR:

Thank you very much.

We'll

proceed with the line-by-line stuff. I think this is a fairly small number of

items in this Estimates

section so maybe we can do them all at the same time.

That will give you the flexibility to after the first clause.

Okay,

we'll do the first clause and then we'll do the rest in one go.

OFFICIAL:

Yeah.

CHAIR:

Okay, so the first clause

has already been called, I think.

MR. PETTEN:

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, as we did last week, I was wondering if you mind if I ask some general

questions that pertain to all your line items and I'll go through some line

items after.

MR. TRIMPER:

Sure.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay. Thanks.

I have

a salary report here. You say you have 21 employees presently with the agency

and seven with the board. How is this compared to last year's numbers? Is there

any change?

MR. TRIMPER:

I'll pass over to Geoff

Williams.

MR. WILLIAMS:

In terms of the number of staff from last year, there's one less person this

year.

MR. PETTEN:

What's the reason for that?

MR. WILLIAMS:

That was a vacant ADM position. The position still exists but the person

finished in January of 2016.

MR. PETTEN:

And it hasn't been filled?

MR. WILLIAMS:

That's correct.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

Would I

be right in assuming there are no positions lost through

Budget 2016 ?

MR. TRIMPER:

That's correct.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay. Also, the same thing

would apply with attrition, nothing through attrition.

The

Standing Fish Price Setting Panel; they're not listed in your salary report but

they're listed in the Estimates, subhead 1.1.04. There is nothing listed in

there. I'm just wondering why they're not listed in a salary report yet they're

listed on the line item. What's the reason?

MR. WILLIAMS:

I'm sorry, could you just

I want to make sure I understand the question.

MR. PETTEN:

I'm looking at your salary

of all your positions.

MR. WILLIAMS:

Yes.

MR. PETTEN:

There is nothing listed

there for the Fish Price Setting Panel positions. I'm just wondering why they're

not on the salary report yet they're listed in our line items.

MR. WILLIAMS:

I believe that position

appears under the salary listings for the Labour Relations and staff under

Labour Relations Agency. I'm not sure if I fully understand the question. I'm

sorry about that.

MR. PETTEN:

No, that's fine. The

Standing Fish Price Setting Panel is listed here in Salaries and operational

monies and that. You're saying the position is listed in the salary report?

MR. WILLIAMS:

Yes, there's an industrial

relations specialist who was assigned to the Standing Fish Price Setting Panel.

I'm sorry I didn't know if that was

MR. PETTEN:

Okay, got ya. Thank you.

One of

those industrial relations specialists is with the Fish Price Setting

MR. WILLIAMS:

That's correct.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay. Thank you very much.

Another

general question, too, I want to ask is all the staff for the agency and the

board is located in St. John's, correct?

MR. WILLIAMS:

There's one staff member, a

Labour Standards officer in Corner Book.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay, otherwise the rest are

in St John's.

MR. WILLIAMS:

That's correct, yes.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

It's

ironic, we just had a sidebar on this, but right now the agency is located in

the Beothuck Building. Have there been any discussion or any plans on moving it

into a government building to save money?

MR. TRIMPER:

Certainly we were looking at

space and efficiencies, so that is under review.

MR. PETTEN:

Right now that's rented.

MR. TRIMPER:

Yeah, that's a rented space.

MR. PETTEN:

Do you have an idea of what

the cost of rent is for that building, what you pay for rent?

MR. WILLIAMS:

Approximately $260,000 a year for the lease costs.

MR. PETTEN:

Wow. Rent is not cheap, is

it?

I have

some line-by-line items now, some general questions.

The

subhead that was called, I guess, 1.1.01, under Executive Support, I just have

one question for that. What are the Purchased Services used for?

MR. WILLIAMS:

In terms of Purchased Services there, we would use those for such things as if

there was any employee development ongoing. As well, if there was a requirement

for the Standing Fish Price Setting Panel to have a market report prepared, that

cost could be allocated from Purchased Services there.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay. So the savings that we

see here, it's not a big amount, but are we doing less what are we doing less

of I should say?

MR. TRIMPER:

The decrease there in the

$7,200 versus the $10,200, that's a rightsizing based on historical costs.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

MR. TRIMPER:

(Inaudible) rolling it back

of what we typically incur.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay. No problem.

Okay.

That's all I have up to 1.1.01.

CHAIR:

Does anyone else have any

questions on that section?

Okay,

shall

MR. PETTEN:

Mr. Chair, sorry, just one

second. I just noticed something on this.

Why the

decrease in Salaries from last year's budget to this year?

MR. TRIMPER:

We do have a vacant ADM

position and the continuance payout will end in October of this year.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

It's

not a lot though, $38,000. I'm just looking and it's not a big amount, right,

$38,000?

MR. TRIMPER:

It's about $37,700 less

based on that person's continuance ending in October.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay, starting as of April

1, right?

MR. TRIMPER:

Yes, that's correct.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

Mr.

Chair, yes, I'm good for that section.

CHAIR:

Okay, seeing no further

questions, shall subhead 1.1.01 carry?

All

those in favour?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against?

Carried.

motion, subhead 1.1.01 carried.

CLERK:

Subhead 1.1.02 to subhead 1.2.01 inclusive.

CHAIR:

Shall they carry?

Any

questions?

MR. PETTEN:

I've got questions on the

next section.

CHAIR:

Yes.

MR. PETTEN:

1.1.02, Administration and

Planning, under Salaries there's not a big amount, but there was some savings

last year again. Why was the revised amount less than what was budgeted? And now

it's gone up again this year, though.

MR. TRIMPER:

Sure. The savings, first of

all, incurred in last year's budget was due to an unpaid leave for one employee

that was laid off for part of the year.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

MR. TRIMPER:

And the slight increase of

$17,000 more over the previous year's budget for Salaries, that's the JES or

just progression along the GNL pay scales.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

MR. TRIMPER:

There are no additional

folks added there.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

MR. TRIMPER:

They're just getting better

at their jobs and we're paying them for it.

MR. PETTEN:

Transportation and

Communications, there's a substantial drop in that line item. Have any

operations changed?

MR. TRIMPER:

That represents a net

decrease of $26,100 $25,000 of which was a line by line rightsizing based on a

historical review. The additional $1,100 is the result of a Transportation and

Works initiative just to reduce on telephone expenditures and blue page

advertising through government.

MR. PETTEN:

Lots of savings you can

make, isn't it?

MR. TRIMPER:

Yes, just looking around.

MR. PETTEN:

Yes, really.

Purchased Services has been decreased by $30,000. What's the reason for that?

What are we doing less of?

MR. TRIMPER:

I'm going to give Robyn that

question, because she was here with me last week and we didn't give her a single

question.

MR. PETTEN:

Didn't I? You took them all,

see; you answered them all.

MR. TRIMPER:

I promised her a question.

We're going to give her this one in case you don't have any more.

MS. HAYES:

Thank you, Minister.

That

was just, again, our line-by-line reduction where we looked at our historical

costs over the years. So there's no reduction in services there.

MR. PETTEN:

So you're saying there was

too much budgeted so there's always leftover money, hey?

MS. HAYES:

Yes.

MR. PETTEN:

It says Revenue Provincial

is $50,000; where does that come from? What is that?

MS. HAYES:

That comes from Workplace NL, formerly the Workplace Health, Safety and

Compensation Commission. They provide us some funding toward some of the

salaries for the Labour Relations Agency.

MR. PETTEN:

Oh, is that right?

MS. HAYES:

For policy support, mostly.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

1.1.03,

Labour Relations and Labour Standards, again these are small but worth asking

too I guess. The increase in Salaries was $20,000. Is that JES too? I guess it

is, is it?

MR. TRIMPER:

First of all the decrease

over last year's activity, that $36,800 was due to some delays in filling some

positions and maintaining a staff vacancy. This year's projection is slightly up

yes, absolutely, it's the job evaluation pay scale alignment and progression

along pay scales.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

Again

the Transportation and Communications line is less; was that another

rightsizing?

MR. TRIMPER:

First of all the decrease

last year was just less travel than they had anticipated. This year we have an

increase of $2,200 over what we actually incurred last year. Purchased Services

expenditures during travel status or outside regular hours that were reimbursed

through the travel claim system Robyn, any other comment on that?

MS. HAYES:

For the Purchased Services?

MR. TRIMPER:

Yeah.

MS. HAYES:

Is it Transportation you

were looking for?

MR. TRIMPER:

Yeah, I'm sorry, I gave you

Purchased Services.

MR. PETTEN:

Transportation.

MR. TRIMPER:

Transportation and

Communications, the $20,400 dropped over last year and this year we have just

rightsized that.

MR. PETTEN:

Rightsizing?

MR. TRIMPER:

Yes, based on historical

costs. Sorry, I just skipped a line.

MR. PETTEN:

I guess now we can go to

Purchased Services.

MR. TRIMPER:

Let's do that.

MR. PETTEN:

I should have left you alone

on that one.

MR. TRIMPER:

Yes.

MR. PETTEN:

There is only one item there

in the middle and there is no budget. It was a one-time thing, was it?

MR. TRIMPER:

Go ahead.

MR. WILLIAMS:

The issue with that was that

was an amount charged for meeting rooms when one of the conciliators was out of

the office and it got incorrectly put through the travel claim system. So it got

charged to an account for which there was no funds. That should have been really

charged to Purchased Services. That's why it shows up there as an anomaly. It

should have been charged to Admin and Planning. But when it got put through, the

individual, it wasn't caught and it got put through a travel claim. That's why

that amount shows up there.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay, makes sense.

The

Revenue line, again where does this come from? We see an increase in revenue

from what was revised last year so

MR. TRIMPER:

We had an increase of some

$35,000 over the previous year. It's relating to a fee increase. We went from

$50 to $75. That's one of our little fee announcements per clearance

certificate. That revenue comes from the Labour Standards Clearance Certificate

request. It's just a reflection of what's going on in the real estate market and

that level of activity.

MR. PETTEN:

When you say a clearance

certificate, I'm not familiar with the board. What does that entail?

MR. WILLIAMS:

Essentially, if someone's looking primarily with the sale of real property, it's

a fee to verify that an individual or company is in good standing with the

Labour Standards Division so there's no complaint or investigation outstanding.

That fee is generally one that lawyers would incur on behalf of their clients if

you're looking to purchase real property.

That

fee came about in 1998. That's when it was introduced.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay. It's amazing; there

are fees for everything, isn't it? No price is ever final.

The

next section, 1.1.04, Standing Fish Price Setting Panel; how much is paid per

meeting or annually to each member of the board? How does that break out?

MR. TRIMPER:

It works on a per diem

basis. The chair receives $1,000 per day and a $5,000 annual retainer. The

regular members are $600 per day with a $3,000 annual retainer. It's a

three-person panel. So we also have an alternate available in the event

someone's not there.

Timelessness is really important with this particular entity. So the alternate

is paid $600 a day but if they're not active, they're not paid. There's no

retainer.

MR. PETTEN:

I was going to say if you

got paid and you didn't have to they'd be a line up for that.

MR. TRIMPER:

A pretty good gig, yes.

MR. PETTEN:

I got a few people who want

that.

You say

there are three members on the board and we have one alternate, right?

MR. TRIMPER:

Yes.

MR. PETTEN:

When do their terms end?

MR. TRIMPER:

They are three-year

appointments. I can give you the names of the folks and their expiry dates now

if you'd like them. I have it in the binder and I'll give you a copy.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay, that's fine.

MR. TRIMPER:

They're three-year terms.

The

long-standing chair, Joe O'Neill, just recently passed. This had been his role,

so we've had to move people into new positions here.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay. I know the name. Thank

you.

Now,

I'm going to 1.2.01, Labour Relations Board. There's a decrease in Salaries of

about $60,000 from Budget 15-16 revised. It went down, then it was gone back but

it's still $56,000 less than what was budgeted last year. It went down by some

$60,000 in the revised figures. What is the reason ?

MR. TRIMPER:

The decrease over last year

was about $64,300. They were maintaining a staff vacancy. The decrease over the

forecasted down to $680,700, that's a decrease of $55,900. It's just planned

savings to meet budgetary requirement as per our salary plan.

Glenn,

I don't know if you have anything further.

MR. BRANTON:

Yes, it's a reflection of

maintaining a vacancy throughout. I guess the numbers for the upcoming year is

just a reflection of that adjustment.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

That's

going to be maintained though, is it, that amount? There will be no fluctuation?

MR. BRANTON:

Yes.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

I'm not sure if you said it,

forgive me if you did. Are there any positions actually eliminated with the

board, no?

MR. BRANTON:

Sorry?

MR. PETTEN:

There was no elimination of

any positions was there?

MR. TRIMPER:

Geoff Williams is going to

MR. WILLIAMS:

I was just looking for an

appropriate spot to clarify a previous response.

terms of positions eliminated, in April of this year there was a position

eliminated from the Labour Relations Board as part of the attrition program. I

think you had provided the

summary a little earlier in terms of no other

positions. There was a position in April of this year eliminated through

attrition from the Labour Relations Board.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

Is that reflective then

that salary dropped there, is that the reason for that?

MR. BRANTON:

Correct.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay. That's what I was

trying we'll get it together eventually.

I should've asked my third

questions first.

Purchased Services, a lot of

money, yet it was cut in half. What's the reason for that?

MR. TRIMPER:

First of all, the decrease

over last year was just less than they used; then they had anticipated. So based

on that and looking back over previous years, it's just an historical

rightsizing.

We're just budgeting now as

per what we typically incur for that line item.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

I'll

take it back to the Fish Price Setting Panel. I have a couple of other questions

I had misplaced there, 1.1.04.

Which

line item does the payment come out for the board, for those members? Is that

out of Salaries as well or is it Purchased Services?

MR. TRIMPER:

Do you want to take that,

Robyn?

MS. HAYES:

That comes from the Professional Services line.

MR. PETTEN:

Professional Services, I

meant to say.

suppose a generic question: Is there an appeal process relating to the

decisions? Is there any appeal mechanism in place on the decisions they make,

the board?

MR. WILLIAMS:

No, there wouldn't be an appeal right per say, other than an appeal through the

court.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay, so you have to go to

the Supreme Court for appeals.

MR. WILLIAMS:

Yes, it's meant to be a final and binding decision on the parties.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

Professional Services, I want to know why that budget was decreased.

MR. TRIMPER:

First of all, the decrease

over last year represents $33,000. There was just less activity than we had been

anticipating. That was actually deferred into this fiscal year and then the

rightsizing; pulling it down about $30,000 just based on historical costs for

that same line item.

MR. PETTEN:

You're getting off easy

today because that's all of my questions.

MR. TRIMPER: I

owe you one.

MR. PETTEN: You

need that today.

CHAIR: Okay.

Are there any further questions?

We'll move forward with calling those subheads.

Shall subheads 1.1.02 to 1.2.01 inclusive carry?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR: All

those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

On motion, subheads 1.1.02 through 1.2.01 carried.

CLERK: Subheads

1.1.01 to 1.2.01 inclusive.

CHAIR: Shall

the totals carry?

All those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR: All

those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

On motion, Labour Relations Agency, total heads, carried.

On motion, Estimates of the Labour Relations Agency carried

without amendment.

CHAIR: Also, we

have to approve the minutes from last meeting. The minutes have been circulated

I believe. Can we have a motion?

MR. LANE: So

moved.

CHAIR:

So moved.

motion, minutes adopted as circulated.

CHAIR:

I think that's everything.

Can we

get a motion to adjourn?

MR. LANE:

Moved.

MR. TRIMPER:

We have binders for both

parties.

CHAIR:

Okay.

Thank

you, everyone.

motion, the Committee adjourned.