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British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

4th Session, 37th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Thursday, October 9, 2003 Afternoon Sitting Volume 16, Number 14 THE HONOURABLE CLAUDE RICHMOND, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Honourable Iona Campagnolo 4TH SESSION, 37TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Claude Richmond EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council................................................................................. .........................Hon. Gordon Campbell Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations.............................................................................. ..................... Hon.

Greg Halsey-Brandt Deputy Premier and Minister of Education ....................................................................................... ..................................Hon. Christy Clark Minister of Advanced Education................................................................................................. ...........................................Hon. Shirley Bond Minister of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries.................................................................................... ..............................Hon.

John van Dongen Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Treaty Negotiations.............................................................. .................... Hon. Geoff Plant Minister of Children and Family Development.................................................................................... ..............................Hon. Gordon Hogg Minister of State for Early Childhood Development.............................................................................. .................................Hon.

Linda Reid Minister of Community, Aboriginal and Women's Services......................................................................... .................. Hon. George Abbott Minister of State for Community Charter........................................................................................ .................................. Hon. Ted Nebbeling Minister of State for Women's Equality ......................................................................................... .................................... Hon.

Lynn Stephens Minister of Competition, Science and Enterprise ................................................................................ ..................................Hon. Rick Thorpe Minister of State for Deregulation ............................................................................................. ............................................ Hon. Kevin Falcon Minister of Energy and Mines................................................................................................... ....................................... Hon.

Richard Neufeld Minister of Finance ............................................................................................................ ....................................................... Hon. Gary Collins Minister of Forests ............................................................................................................ .................................................. Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of Health Planning .................................................................................................... ............................................ Hon.

Sindi Hawkins Minister of Health Services.................................................................................................... ................................................ Hon. Colin Hansen Minister of State for Mental Health ............................................................................................ ...................................Hon. Gulzar S. Cheema Minister of State for Intermediate, Long Term and Home Care ............................................................................. Hon.

Katherine Whittred Minister of Human Resources.................................................................................................... ............................................Hon. Murray Coell Minister of Management Services................................................................................................ .........................................Hon. Sandy Santori Minister of Provincial Revenue................................................................................................. ................................................Hon.

Bill Barisoff Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ................................................................................ ..................................Hon. Rich Coleman Minister of Skills Development and Labour...................................................................................... .............................Hon. Graham P. Bruce Minister of Sustainable Resource Management.................................................................................... ..................................Hon.

Stan Hagen Minister of Transportation..................................................................................................... .................................................... Hon. Judith Reid Minister of Water, Land and Air Protection..................................................................................... ....................................Hon. Joyce Murray LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Deputy Speaker................................................................................................................. ..............................................................

John Weisbeck Leader of the Opposition ....................................................................................................... ...........................................................Joy MacPhail Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ........................................................................................... .............................................. Harold Long Clerk of the Legislative Assembly .............................................................................................. .........................................E.

George MacMinn Clerk Assistant ................................................................................................................ ................................................................... Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk .................................................................................................. ........................................................ Ian D. Izard Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees........................................................................................ ............................................Craig H.

James Clerk Assistant/Committee Clerk................................................................................................ ............................................ Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms ............................................................................................................... .........................................................A.A. Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ..................................................................................................... ........................................

Anthony Dambrauskas Legislative Librarian.......................................................................................................... ............................................................. Joan A. Barton Legislative Comptroller ........................................................................................................ .................................................................Peter Bray Published by British Columbia Hansard Services, and printed under the authority of the Speaker by the Queen's Printer, Victoria.

Rates: single issue, $2.85; per calendar year, mailed daily, $298. GST extra. Agent: Crown Publications Inc., 521 Fort St., Victoria, B.C. V8W 1E7. Telephone: (250) 386-4636. Fax: 386-0221. www.leg.bc.ca Hansard Services publishes transcripts both in print and on the Internet. Chamber debates are broadcast on television and webcast on the Internet.

Party Standings: Liberal 75; New Democratic 2; Independent Liberal 2. ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) ....................................................................... Shuswap Anderson, Val J. (L) .............................................................Vancouver-Langara Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)............................................. Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Pat (L).........................................................................Prince George North Belsey, Bill (L).................................................................................

North Coast Bennett, Bill (L) ........................................................................... East Kootenay Bhullar, Tony (Ind. L) ................................................................. Surrey-Newton Bloy, Harry (L).................................................................................. Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L).........................................Prince George–Mount Robson Bray, Jeff (L)......................................................................Victoria–Beacon H ill Brenzinger, Elayne (L) ...............................................................

Surrey-Whalley Brice, Susan (L) ............................................................................Saanich South Bruce, Hon. Graham P. (L)................................................ Cowichan-Ladysmith Campbell, Hon. Gordon (L)............................................. Vancouver–Point Grey Cheema, Hon. Gulzar S. (L) ..........................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Chong, Ida (L)................................................................ Oak Bay–Gordon Head Christensen, Tom (L) .............................................................

Okanagan-Vernon Chutter, Dave (L) ........................................................................... Yale-L illooet Clark, Hon. Christy (L) ..................................................Port Moody–Westwood Cobb, Walt (L) ............................................................................. Cariboo South Coell, Hon. Murray (L) ........................................ Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon. Rich (L) .............................................. Fort Langley–Aldergrove Collins, Hon.

Gary (L).........................................................Vancouver-Fairview de Jong, Hon. Michael (L)....................................... Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L) .......................................................... Surrey-Cloverdale Hagen, Hon. Stan (L) ................................................................... Comox Valley Halsey-Brandt, Hon. Greg (L) ..................................................Richmond Centre Hamilton, Arnie (L)............................................................Esquimalt-Metchosin Hansen, Hon.

Colin (L) .....................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Harris, Roger (L)......................................................................................Skeena Hawes, Randy (L) ............................................................ Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Hon. Sindi (L).......................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ................................................................... Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Hon. Gordon (L) ........................................................

Surrey–White Rock Hunter, Mike (L) ...................................................................................Nanaimo Jarvis, Daniel (L)...................................................... North Vancouver–Seymour Johnston, Ken (L)............................................................ Vancouver-Fraserview Kerr, Brian J. (L).............................................................. Malahat–Juan de Fuca Krueger, Kevin (L).................................................

Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP) ...............................Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lee, Richard T. (L).......................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L)................................................................. Peace River South Les, John (L) .......................................................................... Ch illiwack-Sumas Locke, Brenda (L) ...........................................................

Surrey–Green Timbers Long, Harold (L) ...................................................Powell River–Sunshine Coast MacKay, Dennis (L)....................................................... Bulkley Valley–Stikine McMahon, Wendy (L).............................................Columbia River–Revelstoke MacPhail, Joy (NDP) ..........................................................

Vancouver-Hastings Manhas, Karn (L) .............................................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Masi, Reni (L) ...................................................................................Delta North Mayencourt, Lorne (L) ..........................................................Vancouver-Burrard Murray, Hon. Joyce (L) ........................................................... New Westminster Nebbeling, Hon. Ted (L) .......................................... West Vancouver–Garibaldi Nettleton, Paul (Ind. L)..................................................Prince George–Omineca Neufeld, Hon.

Richard (L)...................................................... Peace River North Nijjar, Rob (L)...................................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Nuraney, John (L) ...............................................................Burnaby-W illingdon Orr, Sheila (L) ...........................................................................Victoria-Hillside Penner, Barry (L)....................................................................... Ch illiwack-Kent Plant, Hon. Geoff (L) ......................................................... Richmond-Steveston Reid, Hon.

Judith (L)............................................................Nanaimo-Parksv ille Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ................................................................... Richmond East Richmond, Hon. Claude (L) ................................................................ Kamloops Roddick, Valerie (L)..........................................................................Delta South Sahota, Patty (L).....................................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Santori, Hon. Sandy (L)..............................................West Kootenay–Boundary Stephens, Hon.

Lynn (L) ........................................................................ Langley Stewart, Ken (L)...................................................... Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Stewart, Richard (L) ...................................................... Coquitlam-Maillardville Suffredine, Blair F. (L) ................................................................Nelson-Creston Sultan, Ralph (L)....................................................... West Vancouver–Capilano Thorpe, Hon.

Rick (L) ..........................................................Okanagan-Westside Trumper, Gillian (L)................................................................Alberni-Qualicum van Dongen, Hon. John (L) ................................................Abbotsford-Clayburn Visser, Rod (L).................................................................................North Island Weisbeck, John (L).........................................................Kelowna–Lake Country Whittred, Hon.

Katherine (L) ...................................North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wilson, John (L)........................................................................... Cariboo North Wong, Patrick (L)............................................................Vancouver-Kensington LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn....................................................... Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman ..............................................Hon.

Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum.......................................................................G illian Trumper Bulkley Valley–Stikine ..............................................................Dennis MacKay Burnaby North..............................................................................Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds............................................................................Patty Sahota Burnaby-Willingdon......................................................................

John Nuraney Burquitlam ........................................................................................ Harry Bloy Cariboo North ..................................................................................John Wilson Cariboo South .................................................................................... Walt Cobb Chilliwack-Kent ............................................................................. Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas .................................................................................

John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke....................................................Wendy McMahon Comox Valley .......................................................................... Hon. Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville .............................................................Richard Stewart Cowichan-Ladysmith .......................................................Hon. Graham P. Bruce Delta North.......................................................................................... Reni Masi Delta South................................................................................

Valerie Roddick East Kootenay .................................................................................. Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin...................................................................Arnie Hamilton Fort Langley–Aldergrove ..................................................... Hon. Rich Coleman Kamloops ....................................................................... Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson ........................................................Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country...............................................................

John Weisbeck Kelowna-Mission ................................................................ Hon. Sindi Hawkins Langley ............................................................................... Hon. Lynn Stephens Malahat–Juan de Fuca .....................................................................Brian J. Kerr Maple Ridge–Mission ................................................................... Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows .............................................................Ken Stewart Nanaimo..........................................................................................

Mike Hunter Nanaimo-Parksville ...................................................................Hon. Judith Reid Nelson-Creston.......................................................................Blair F. Suffredine New Westminster ..................................................................Hon. Joyce Murray North Coast ........................................................................................Bill Belsey North Island........................................................................................Rod Visser North Vancouver–Lonsdale.......................................... Hon.

Katherine Wh ittred North Vancouver–Seymour .............................................................Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head .......................................................................Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon .................................................................... Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside.................................................................Hon. Rick Thorpe Peace River North .............................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Peace River South .......................................................................

Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley ....................................................Hon. Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain.................................................... Karn Manhas Port Moody–Westwood......................................................... Hon. Christy Clark Powell River–Sunshine Coast.......................................................... Harold Long Prince George North................................................................................Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson................................................Hon.

Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca................................................................Paul Nettleton Richmond Centre......................................................... Hon. Greg Halsey-Brandt Richmond East .......................................................................... Hon. Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston ................................................................ Hon. Geoff Plant Saanich North and the Islands ............................................... Hon. Murray Coell Saanich South...................................................................................

Susan Brice Shuswap .............................................................................. Hon. George Abbott Skeena.............................................................................................Roger Harris Surrey-Cloverdale ................................................................. Hon. Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers .................................................................. Brenda Locke Surrey-Newton ............................................................................... Tony Bhullar Surrey–Panorama Ridge................................................. Hon.

Gulzar S. Cheema Surrey-Tynehead .......................................................................... Dave S. Hayer Surrey-Whalley ...................................................................... Elayne Brenzinger Surrey–White Rock ...............................................................Hon. Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard................................................................. Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview............................................................... Hon.

Gary Co llins Vancouver-Fraserview ...................................................................Ken Johnston Vancouver-Hastings .......................................................................Joy MacPhail Vancouver-Kensington...................................................................Patrick Wong Vancouver-Kingsway..........................................................................Rob Nijjar Vancouver-Langara....................................................................Val J.

Anderson Vancouver–Mount Pleasant............................................Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey ................................................... Hon. Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena............................................................ Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill.............................................................................Jeff Bray Victoria-Hillside.................................................................................. Sheila Orr West Kootenay–Boundary.................................................... Hon.

Sandy Santori West Vancouver–Capilano ..............................................................Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi ................................................. Hon. Ted Nebbeling Yale-Lillooet .................................................................................. Dave Chutter

CONTENTS Thursday, October 9, 2003 Afternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Introductions by Members....................................................................................................... ............................................... 7297 Introduction and First Reading of Bills ........................................................................................ ......................................... 7297 Motor Dealer Amendment Act, 2003 (Bll 74) Hon. R. Thorpe Community Charter Transitional Provisions, Consequential Amendments and Other Amendments Act, 2003 (Bill 76) Hon. T.

Nebbeling Statements (Standing Order 25B).............................................................................................................................. .............. 7298 Abbotsford Hospital project R. Hawes Nanaimo-Vancouver passenger ferry service M. Hunter Health care services in Kootenay area B. Suffredine Oral Questions................................................................................................................. ......................................................... 7299 Income assistance regulations and access to benefits J. Kwan Hon. M.

Coell Imposition of sales tax on Georgia Straight J. MacPhail Hon. S. Hagen Government response to B.C. Rail employee proposals P. Nettleton Hon. J. Reid Rehabilitation of grazing lands W. Cobb Hon. M. de Jong Water quality in Golden W. McMahon Hon. C. Hansen U.S. softwood lumber duty T. Bhullar Hon.

M. de Jong Tabling Documents .............................................................................................................. .................................................... 7302 Ministry of Provincial Revenue, memorandum on application of sales tax act to newspapers Second Reading of Bills ........................................................................................................ ................................................... 7302 Private Career Training Institutions Act (Bill 52) (continued) L. Mayencourt K. Stewart H. Bloy D. Hayer S. Orr S. Brice R. Lee E. Brenzinger R.

Hawes B. Locke Hon. G. Halsey-Brandt J. MacPhail

B. Suffredine J. Bray I. Chong Agriculture, Food and Fisheries Statutes Amendment Act, 2003 (Bill 48) Hon. J. van Dongen J. MacPhail J. Les

7297 THURSDAY, OCTOBER 9, 2003 The House met at 2:05 p.m. [J. Weisbeck in the chair.] Introductions by Members Hon. R. Thorpe: Today in the gallery visiting from Westbank, British Columbia, I have Pauline and David Knowles from my riding of Okanagan-Westside. David is a director for Westside in the Central Okanagan re- gional district and does a great job. Visiting with them is David's brother and his wife from Leeds, England: Hugh and Janet Knowles. Would all the members in this House please make them welcome to British Co- lumbia. D.

Hayer: O n b e h a l f o f t h e m e m b e r f o r S u r r e y - White Rock, it gives me great pleasure to introduce 115 grade 9 students visiting from Semiahmoo Secondary School. Joining them are their teachers, Mr. Gordon Masi and Ms. Susan Ignatzi, as well as several parent- volunteers who have taken time out of their busy

schedule to accompany these students. Would the House make them very welcome. Hon. G. Abbott: I have the pleasure to welcome to the gallery today my sister, Diane Read, who is a new resident to Kamloops. She's accompanied by her hus- band, Bob Read, who recently retired as a district manager for the Ministry of Forests from the Fort Nelson area. Bob is here to, I think, join a number of other retirees and active members of the B.C. public service at the long-service awards. He'll be receiving his 35-year pin, I believe, from the Minister of Forests tonight. I would like everyone to please make them welcome. S.

Brice: In the gallery today there are a number of local CAs, and everyone in this House knows how valuable these particular folks are. This South Island team of CAs works well together. Their latest piece of work was assisting us in the Juno Beach recognition ceremony. I would like the House to please welcome Val Terry, Linda Morton, Mike Demers, Debbie Mac- Lean and Sharon Klein. K. Krueger: We have a very special guest indeed in the precinct today.

B.C., as you know, experienced a tremendous out-migration of young people during the last decade, and this has led to declining enrolment in our school system and other pied piper–type problems. Well, this government and all who work for it are turn- ing that around, doing all we can to turn the tide, and we've seen the fruits of that many times in this very building. I don't actually know the name of our guest. I don't even know this special person's gender, but a very spe- cial guest is with us indeed.

Our caucus managing di- rector, Sarah Bonner, told me she didn't know how to convey this news, so I said I'd think of a plan. Sarah Bonner is expecting a baby, folks, and if it's a boy, Kevin is a very good name. Would you all join me in congratulating the Bonners and welcoming this news. Introduction and First Reading of Bills MOTOR DEALER AMENDMENT ACT, 2003 H o n . R . T h o r p e p r e s e n t e d a m e s s a g e f r o m H e r Honour the Lieutenant Governor: a bill intituled Motor Dealer Amendment Act, 2003. Hon. R. Thorpe: I move Bill 74 be introduced and read for a first time now.

I'm pleased to introduce Bill 74, Motor Dealer Amendment Act, 2003. The motor dealer legislation is being modernized through the Motor Dealer Amend- ment Act. This provision will enable the creation of a delegated authority to be responsible for administering the rules and regulations governing the motor dealer industry in British Columbia. [1410] The proposed amendment is aimed at maintain- ing high levels of consumer protection while stimu- lating a competitive market environment for the motor dealer industry. It does three things.

First, it provides for the delegated authority for the Motor Dealer Council, with the chair being Bob Stewart, former chief constable, city of Vancouver; and the vice-chair, George Morfitt, former auditor general of British Columbia. Second, it provides for new regu- lation-making powers that will enhance industry professionalism. Third, it increases penalty amounts for violations so they reflect the current value of motor vehicle transactions. Mr. Speaker, I move the bill be placed on the orders of the day for the second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Deputy Speaker: Thank you, minister.

I'll first of all ask for the motion on first reading. Motion approved. Bill 74 introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. COMMUNITY CHARTER TRANSITIONAL PROVISIONS, CONSEQUENTIAL AMENDMENTS AND OTHER AMENDMENTS ACT, 2003 Hon. T. Nebbeling presented a message from Her Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Community Charter Transitional Provisions, Conse- quential Amendments and Other Amendments Act, 2003.

7298 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, OCTOBER 9, 2003 Hon. T. Nebbeling: I would ask that Bill 76 be read for the first time now. Motion approved. Hon. T. Nebbeling: Hon. Speaker, I'm pleased to present the Community Charter Transitional Provi- sions, Consequential Amendments and Other Amendments Act, 2003. Last spring we passed the most empowering piece of legislation ever introduced for local government in Canada, the Community Char- ter.

It came at the longstanding request of local gov- ernments, and it sets the foundation for a whole new relationship between municipalities and the province of British Columbia. Typically, when we introduce a piece of legisla- tion such as the charter, we tack on to the end of the legislation transitional provisions and consequential amendments, but because of the magnitude of amendments required in relationship to the charter, we introduced those provisions as a separate stand- alone bill, Bill 67. Today we are replacing Bill 67 with Bill 76.

Time has allowed us to refine Bill 67, and this new bill reflects those refinements and helps us clearly and effectively implement the Community Charter. The majority of Bill 76 provisions are minor technical updates, which are part of the process re- quired to carry through the intent of the Community Charter. This bill ensures a smooth transition for municipalities from the Local Government Act while maintaining the integrity of the local government system.

I move that the Community Charter Transitional Provisions, Consequential Amendments and Other Amendments Act, 2003, be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 76 introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Statements (Standing Order 25

B) ABBOTSFORD HOSPITAL PROJECT R. Hawes: Through a decade of empty promise after empty promise to construct a new hospital in Ab- botsford, the former NDP administration never put one nickel into a capital budget for this facility. Meanwhile, MSA Hospital has been crumbling, and it can't meet the needs of the Fraser Valley residents that rely on it for acute care. The good news is that in our first budget, this ad- ministration included $210 million in the capital budget for this much-needed new facility. The even better news is that we are no longer building just a hospital; we're now building a health campus.

In addi- tion to the community and regional hospital facilities, the Abbotsford campus will include a state-of-the-art cancer centre that will serve as a vital research and medical training facility, as well as offer treatment pro- grams. [1415] In recognition of the tremendous growth projected for the Fraser Valley, the project has been expanded by 10 percent — to a 55,000-metre facility — housing a much-expanded emergency centre, advanced disease control and isolation rooms, an expanded ICU and CCU segregated capability, and video conferencing capability in the ORs that will allow for immediate consultation with the top surgeons around the world.

Perhaps the most important thing is that it's the first time a cancer centre and a hospital have been built to- gether from the ground up, thus opening the door to all kinds of new, exciting possibilities. This ultra state-of-the-art complex will be a magnet to attract key specialists from around the globe. With the expanded plans, the overall project is now esti- mated to cost $300 million. This publicly operated facil- ity will be constructed as a P3. I want to stress for my constituents that this will be a publicly operated facil- ity.

The private partner will supply some support ser- vices, but the medical services will all be operated un- der the Fraser health authority. This carefully planned, well-managed and very transparent process will result in the most functional state-of-the-art centre anywhere in the country, and it's something we can all be proud of. I'll take the punish- ment the Whip will lay out for me for going over my two minutes, because this is such good news for my constituents. NANAIMO-VANCOUVER PASSENGER FERRY SERVICE M. Hunter: At 7:15 this morning a new era of op- portunity was launched in Nanaimo.

It was at that time that the inaugural sailing of a new private sector high- speed passenger ferry service left Nanaimo's harbour for downtown Vancouver. This new service, operated by HarbourLynx ferries, has been awaited by the peo- ple of Nanaimo and the mid-Island region for many, many months. It affords new choices and competition with exist- ing transportation services that will improve the acces- sibility and visibility of the mid-Island.

It provides new flexibility in the lives of the many people who have chosen the mid-Island lifestyle but who must still visit the lower mainland for business or for recreation. I expect there will be many more such people relocating to Nanaimo in the coming years as this new service becomes established. The new HarbourLynx service reflects a growing confidence in the economic policies of this government and a strong investor interest in Nanaimo. I want to thank the board of directors of the Nanaimo Port Authority for the vision they have shown in assisting HarbourLynx in its new venture.

Most of all, I want to say thank you to the investors

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 9, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7299 and to the board of directors of HarbourLynx, who have weathered some considerable difficulties to get- ting to today's launch. I want to say thanks to those people for their confidence in my community and in our province. I wish the company and the company's employees a successful future. HEALTH CARE SERVICES IN KOOTENAY AREA B. Suffredine: Recent reports by the provincial media suggesting Kootenay Lake District Hospital in Nelson is unsafe must be clarified.

There have been a number of changes to services in the Kootenays that have improved services to the region. It is important that people understand those changes. Moving complex surgery to Trail now means a team of four surgeons is available to provide services 24-7 for the entire region. Before, surgeons were split between Trail and Nelson, which meant 24-7 surgical coverage was not assured — not in Nelson, Trail or anywhere else in the region. Some patients had to be transferred to Vancouver, Kelowna or even further for urgent surgery.

Now people in the region, including Nelson, have guaranteed access to surgical services 24- 7. I understand why people in Nelson are concerned that those services are focused in Trail, but the bottom line is that the system is safer than it was before for everyone in the region. Kootenay Lake Hospital is open as a full-service, level 1 community hospital that pro- vides high-quality care. Over $2 million in improvements are planned for Nelson in the near future. We have 24-7 emergency services, with monitored beds for heart patients.

Ac- cording to one of our most respected doctors, emer- gency is the best it has ever been, due to the highly qualified staff who currently man it. Contrary to the news reports, we have a radiologist and a pediatrician a s w e l l a s f a m i l y p r a c t i c e , i n t e r n a l m e d i c i n e , o p h - thalmology, oncology, obstetrics and gynecology, pathology and neurology. There's still a lot of work to be done, but we do have a good hospital in Nelson that provides quality care. I can say this with confi- dence, because I know personally many of the doctors and nurses who work there.

They're great, caring people. Patients tell me regularly about the great care they receive at Kootenay Lake Hospital. I also know, be- cause on August 26 my first grandson was born at the Kootenay Lake Hospital, and he and his mother re- ceived the best of care. [1420] Oral Questions INCOME ASSISTANCE REGULATIONS AND ACCESS TO BENEFITS J. Kwan: Yesterday the Minister of Human Re- sources was ashamed to say how many British Colum- bians will be kicked off of income assistance when the two-year limit kicks in next April, even though he has that information.

But right now people are coming to our office — some of the poorest, most vulnerable citi- zens in our society — because they can't get assistance as a result of the two-year financial independence test. That's the new measure that this government brought in last year. Can the minister tell us how many British Columbians are being denied assistance right now as a result of this new requirement? Hon. M. Coell: Just for the member, in the past year British Columbia has created 93,000 jobs. We have 10,000 jobs in my ministry available for people with income assistance.

There are jobs available for people on income assistance in this province. We're working every day to make sure that people who are employable get the jobs that they need, unlike the previous government for whom success on welfare was more people. Success for us is helping people get into jobs. Deputy Speaker: The member for Vancouver– Mount Pleasant with a supplemental question. J. Kwan: The minister knows the answer to my question, but he insists on hiding it from the public.

Let me read from an internal ministerial briefing note that was obtained by the CBC on a two-year financial inde- pendence test: "It is estimated that an average of blank applicants per month will be denied income assistance because they have not been financially independent for two years." Will the minister continue to hide behind his rhetoric, or will he fill in the blank? Hon. M. Coell: What the opposition doesn't under- stand is that there are jobs out there for people who are employable. If someone isn't employable, they happen to be able to get income assistance.

But if you're em- ployable, we want you to work. We've gone out of this area and found 10,000 jobs for people all throughout the province, so maybe the… Interjection. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. Hon. M. Coell: …socialist NDP doesn't understand that people want to work in this province. Maybe they don't understand that people want to be successful in this province. Maybe they'd like to return to the years when the member was a minister and there were 400,000 people in British Columbia on income assis- tance. One in ten people under that former government was on income assistance. Is that helping people?

I don't think so. I think helping people is finding em- ployment. The best social safety net a British Columbian can have is a job. But I don't think the member understands that, because she was quite happy at one in ten British Columbians on welfare, six out of ten British Columbia

7300 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, OCTOBER 9, 2003 single parents on welfare. That was success for her government. Well, success for British Columbians to- day is employment. My ministry is spending $300 mil- lion… Interjection. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. Members of the opposition, would you please come to order. Hon. M. Coell: …on job placement and job training programs, and I think the caseload moving down and people moving into employment must be somewhat reassuring, even to a couple of NDPers. J. Kwan: Let's talk about those 10,000 jobs.

This minister is very proud of these supposed 10,000 jobs available to income assistance. Just wait. What he doesn't tell you is that…. Interjection. Deputy Speaker: Continue. [1425] J. Kwan: What the minister doesn't tell people is that if you're denied assistance in the first place, you don't qualify for those jobs. Many of the British Co- lumbians who are being denied assistance make their living on the margins of society. They can't prove to the ministry that they have been financially independent for two years.

As a result, they can't get assistance, and they have no access to job training and placement pro- grams. They are caught in a horrible catch-22. The minister likes to pretend everything is rosy and everyone is finding a job, but he knows it's not true. People are being denied assistance and left with no support. The minister has been told by the officials how many people are being cut off. Will he come clean? It's a simple question. Will he come clean and tell this House how many people are being cut off income assistance now? Interjections. Deputy Speaker: Order, members. Let's listen to the answer. Hon. M.

Coell: I remember the days when there was a government in this province where people were losing tens of thousands of jobs in the forest industry and the mining industry. People were leaving this province because of mismanagement. This government has created 93,000 jobs since we were elected. There are opportunities out there that there weren't under the previous government. There are opportunities for young people in this province like there weren't for a decade. In the pit of despair with the NDP in govern- ment, there was no hope for young people in this prov- ince. There is today.

IMPOSITION OF SALES TAX ON GEORGIA STRAIGHT J. MacPhail: To the Premier, a matter he has been briefed on: the Georgia Straight newspaper has accused the government of political interference in a decision to charge them $1 million in taxes for technical reasons. This is a very serious allegation, a very serious accusa- tion, and the government's decision threatens the fi- nancial viability of a B.C. media institution. Will the Premier agree to ask for an independent assessment of how this decision was arrived at to determine whether political pressure was brought to bear? Hon. S.

Hagen: Provincial auditors make their as- sessments as provided for in the sales tax legislation and according to detailed policies. To keep the system free of political interference, I am not involved in the audit process and neither is the minister. However, for fairness to taxpayers, the legislation provides for an appeal process. Where the taxpayer disagrees with the results of an audit, an appeal may be made to the min- ister within 90 days, and the minister personally re- views all the appeals. The sales tax legislation ensures and establishes that the taxpayer information is confi- dential.

Therefore, it would be inappropriate for me to comment on the specifics of the audit or the appeal. Deputy Speaker: Leader of the Opposition with a supplemental — on a new matter. J. MacPhail: I'm sorry? Deputy Speaker: On a new matter. J. MacPhail: No, it's the same matter. The accusation being levelled against this govern- ment is the first of its kind. It's an accusation of political interference. It's not about the audit; it's not about min- isters hiding behind public officials.

I would have thought that the minister speaking, I gather, for the Provincial Revenue minister would have jumped at the chance to clear up this serious allegation. It's a simple matter. Will the Premier, or whoever is in charge over there, simply ask for an independent assessment of how this decision was made so that Brit- ish Columbians can determine whether these first-ever charges of political interference are true? Hon. S.

Hagen: As I outlined on behalf of the Min- ister of Provincial Revenue, the legislation does pro- vide for an appeal process, and where the taxpayer disagrees with the results of an audit, an appeal may be made to the minister within 90 days. GOVERNMENT RESPONSE TO B.C. RAIL EMPLOYEE PROPOSALS P. Nettleton: I have been informed that the Minister of Transportation did not respond to a proposal from the B.C. Rail workers sent to the Ministry of Transpor-

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 9, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7301 tation on June 26 of this year, nor did the minister af- ford the B.C. Rail workers the courtesy of acknowledg- ing their letter of proposal. The workers' proposal of- fered the government a three-year wage freeze, no par- ticipation in the bonus plan and the establishment of an employee-management joint committee to facilitate the return of a third-party passenger rail service. [1430] T h i s p r o p o s a l w o u l d h a v e s a v e d B . C . R a i l s o m e $150 million that could have been used to build the infrastructure needed to keep B.C.

Rail profitable. I can assure the minister that the employees are approaching this with a great deal of flexibility, are looking at it with a view to cost saving and are willing to discuss achieving greater efficiency and the goal of running an efficient railway that continues to bring in profits for the people of this province. This dialogue is something that rail-line communities want to see occur. It would help restore public confidence in the process and, in- deed, in the government itself.

My question, then, to the minister is: with reference to the workers' proposal, why are you refusing to meet with the workers at B.C. Rail who are offering this gov- ernment over $150 million in savings and, now, further flexibility? Will she place a six-month moratorium on this sale in order to listen to what the workers at B.C. Rail have to offer? Hon. J. Reid: Our goal is, as the member suggested, a viable, long-term rail service for the people of British Columbia. Our goal is a renewed investment in the rail service. Our goal is a strong railway for a strong north for a strong province.

That is our objective, and that's what we're going to achieve. With regard to working with the workers of B.C. Rail, B.C. Rail has continued to work with their em- ployees and will continue to work with their employ- ees and continue to listen to their employees with re- gard to proposals. That process is ongoing. REHABILITATION OF GRAZING LANDS W. Cobb: My question is to the Minister of Forests. We all know that over the summer, fires across the province had a devastating affect on the forest re- sources.

Another additional consequence of this disas- ter was the loss of grazing lands, yet another blow to the valuable cattle industry. While recent measures announced by the Premier have helped, more can be done. Ranchers need to know that grazing lands will be replenished by the time they turn their herds out next spring. As an issue that is vital to the economic health of the Cariboo region, will the Minister of Forests act with all urgency to help our ranchers and develop a reseed- ing plan for grazing lands damaged by the fires? Hon. M. de Jong: A timely question.

Just an hour ago, in fact, I got a letter from the B.C. Cattlemen's As- sociation. It's a tough time for them, with BSE at a time when they can't sell their cattle south of the border and trouble feeding them because of the fire season. We are deferring the obligation to pay for the graz- ing permits until next year. The Premier made that announcement. Where possible, we're looking to ex- tend the actual grazing season to help with the feeding of the cattle.

I'm happy to tell the member and will be communicating to the Cattlemen's Association that we're going to do what we can to expand the reseeding program as part of our overall rehabilitation project. As well, as part of that program, we'll look at the other damage that's been suffered by things like fencing and corrals. WATER QUALITY IN GOLDEN W. McMahon: My question is to the Minister of Health Services. Late last month, the interior health authority issued a boil-water advisory to the town of Golden when bacterial contamination of the commu- nity's water system was discovered.

Interior health acted swiftly to alert the community of the health risk and is in the process of testing the water quality. Resi- dents of Golden, however, are anxious to have the boil- advisory lifted. Can the minister explain what steps are being taken to ensure water quality for Golden? Hon. C. Hansen: As the member indicated, there was a boil-water advisory in place on September 25 as a result of test results that came back showing elevated contamination. We have one of the strongest regimes for drinking water protection in Canada.

Our obliga- tion with the Ministry of Health Services, through the health authorities, is to make sure it is regularly tested and monitored and, if there is any compromise to the water system, that the appropriate action is taken. In this case, it was the boil-water advisory. The interior health authority is certainly working with the community to make sure there is a safe period of time, after which the boil-water advisory will be lifted but only once there is 100 percent certainty that human health is being protected. [1435] U.S. SOFTWOOD LUMBER DUTY T. Bhullar: My question is for the Minister of For- ests.

Could the minister provide a status report to this House on the softwood issue and the countervailing duty imposed by the United States? Hon. M. de Jong: Probably the most significant development of late was just over two weeks ago when the NAFTA binational panel issued its order that was exceedingly favourable to the Canadian position, and that particularly, specifically, was the finding that the commerce department in the U.S. had not made out a case for not just actual injury but even threat of injury. I think it's fair to say that has changed the complexion of this.

The ball is squarely in the U.S. court right now. I'm happy that the Premier will be travelling to Wash-

7302 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, OCTOBER 9, 2003 ington in the next couple of weeks to pursue with the Americans directly whether they are actually serious about getting a deal. If they are serious, they will issue the policy bulletin that has been some time in the mak- ing, and if they are serious they will now sit down and engage in reasoned, reasonable negotiations aimed at arriving at a negotiated interim solution. If not, our option is to pursue the NAFTA and WTO panels to their logical conclusion. [End of question period.] Tabling Documents Hon. S. Hagen: I seek leave to table a memoran- dum.

Leave granted. Hon. S. Hagen: I wish to table a memorandum from the Deputy Minister, Ministry of Provincial Reve- nue, that outlines the application of the sales tax act to newspapers, which also states that there have been no changes in either policy or legislation with respect to newspapers since April of 2000. It also lays out the general audit and assessment policy. Orders of the Day Interjection. Deputy Speaker: Would the Leader of the Opposi- tion please come to order. Hon.

M. de Jong: I'm still reeling from the opposi- tion leader's earlier comment on my shortcomings. [Laughter.] I call for continued debate on Bill 52. Second Reading of Bills PRIVATE CAREER TRAINING INSTITUTIONS ACT (continued) L. Mayencourt: I 'm he re t o sp e ak i n f av o u r o f B i l l 52. I am speaking in favour of it because this bill will provide consumer protection to students of registered institutions, while reducing the regulatory burden for the private training sector.

It will also reduce red tape for private training institutions and will allow them to reinvest their time and money into the expansion of their businesses. Growth in this sector of the economy will expand access and the range of quality learning choices for students in British Columbia. Before I get into my reasons for why I want to sup- port Bill 52, I want to go back to some comments that were made by the member for Vancouver–Mount Pleasant a few moments ago, before we took our recess.

I'm doing that because I want everybody here in this Legislature and I want people in this province to know that I think we have the finest Minister of Advanced Education since 1991 sitting in this chamber. I stand beside her, the Premier stands behind her, the Solicitor General stands behind her, and the Minister of Com- munity, Aboriginal and Women's Services stands be- hind her. We all stand behind her because she's done a darned good job for the people of British Columbia. She's put students first in advanced education, and she is making a difference for students in British Columbia.

The first point the member for Vancouver–Mount Pleasant made… Interjection. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. [1440] L. Mayencourt: …was that the Liberal government is privatizing education like it's privatizing everything else. The facts are, as was stated in the Monday Maga- zine

article that Ms. Kwan so fondly referenced…. Interjection. L. Mayencourt: Oh, I'm very sorry. Counterpoint. As stated in the Monday Magazine

article that the mem- ber for Vancouver–Mount Pleasant, who is named in this article, so fondly referenced, there have been pri- vate institutions in B.C. for at least 100 years, including the dark decade of the NDP's reign. In fact, even in her comments in the Legislature today she acknowledged that there are currently 1,100 private post-secondary education institutions. What is that about? You had ten years to be in power. You were ten years in power, and you left the place just the way it was. You had 1,100 private institutions.

If you thought they were so evil, why didn't you get rid of them when you were in power? Second point. According to Monday Magazine , pri- vate institutions in British Columbia are already under- regulated and taking advantage of students. Further deregulating the system would only make it worse. The issues that arise from that

article indicate that the problems arise from the mandate of PPSEC. The Social Credit government wrote this legislation, and the NDP proclaimed it into law in 1991. This is the very body that we are proposing to change with this legislation. We don't think it works. When accrediting institutions, PPSEC's focus is pri- marily on administrative considerations — job descrip- tions of administrators, numbers of staff, a lot of paper- work. The new accreditation system focuses less on ad- ministration and far more on program quality, where we think it should be — serving students.

It will pay closer attention to how current a program's curriculum is, whether it fills a market need and leaves graduates with job opportunities, and whether they have the space and capacity to offer the program. We feel this is a tremen- dous improvement over the former system. Then the member for Vancouver–Mount Pleasant makes the point: how can organizations focused on

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 9, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7303 making a profit guarantee quality of education? Well, this seems to be their mantra. Anybody that's making money in this province, that's employing educators, that's delivering private education is somehow evil. In fact, private post-secondary institutions succeed and thrive on one thing — their reputation. Where does that reputation come from? It comes from quality. As with any business, a private educational institution relies on its reputation to succeed and keep its doors open.

The purpose of this bill is to replace and repeal the Private Post-Secondary Education Act in order to im- plement the core services review recommendations concerning the Private Post-Secondary Education Commission, PPSEC. Through our core services review — which included consulting with private post- secondary institutions, students and people in this province — we discovered that there is more we can be doing and that PPSEC is not as effective as it could be, and in some cases it's too broad in its legislation and regulations. How do we compare with other provinces?

Other Canadian provinces show examples of how it is possi- ble to reduce government regulation in the private post-secondary sector while encouraging this industry, a growing industry, to assume greater responsibility for its actions. This bill will allow us to do the same. What were the specific recommendations of the core services review? The core services review recom- mended replacing PPSEC with a self-regulating, cost recovery board composed of industry representatives.

It recommended narrowing the scope of the registra- tion requirements to include only those institutions offering career-related training and further narrowing the scope of registration to include only those pro- grams that exceed a minimum threshold for program length and cost. One very important part of this bill is that it will provide key changes in the area of tuition protection. Instead of requiring institutions to post bonds, cash or letters of credit to protect the tuition fees of private post-secondary students, these students will be cov- ered by the student training completion fund.

This fund is important for a number of reasons. It will im- prove the level of consumer protection available to these students, and it will also replace the current fi- nancial security requirements for private career train- ing institutions. [1445] This bill has been suggested not only by core ser- vices review but also by students. Students had an ac- t i v e r o l e i n m a k i n g s u g g e s t i o n s a s w e w e n t t h r o u g h this process. They had the opportunity to provide feedback on PPSEC and the proposed private training model in the discussion paper, which was posted on the website.

That's really the beauty of it all. This bill will benefit both students and private institutions. How can this be? The training completion fund will also replace the current financial security requirements for private ca- reer training institutions. Many institutions have found the current financial security requirements burden- some, and the sector has been asking for changes for years. This government believes in creating solutions for students for putting them first. Institutions will also benefit by this bill.

The new agency will have the authority to make bylaws con- cerning their administrative requirements, with the provision that the minister may require the agency to amend or repeal the bylaws. This will provide the agency with the flexibility to determine appropriate administrative requirements for registered and accred- ited institutions and to modify these requirements as necessary. If it's necessary, and the institution doesn't want to do it, the minister can step in. In conclusion, there are many other facets of this bill that I see as beneficial to everyone involved.

This bill benefits students, by providing consumer protec- tion, and private training institutions, by decreasing regulatory burdens and red tape. We need to see growth in this sector of the economy, as it will lead to an increase in the range of quality learning choices for students in British Columbia. I have a number of these private post-secondary education centres in my riding, and I am very proud that almost the very first visit I had with the Minister of Advanced Education was her coming to my riding to meet with private post-secondary educators about this very problem.

It was the first thing that was brought to my attention as an MLA. It's the first thing for which that minister came to my riding, sat down with me around a table and discussed these issues with educa- tors who were confounded by PPSEC's administrative rules and bureaucracy. I am proud that this bill has come forward. I am proud that we are ending the insanity that some of those institutions have had to deal with. I am glad and proud that this minister has, from that very first meet- ing just after we came to office, dedicated herself to solving that problem for the people who sat around that table.

I support this bill wholeheartedly, and I hope my other colleagues will join me in that. K. Stewart: I, too, stand in support of Bill 52, Pri- vate Career Training Institutions Act, and also in sup- port of the Minister of Advanced Education and her determination to ensure the protection of the students in the province of British Columbia. It's very important to provide students, who go out and invest their money, time and their future in an organization, with the skills they are going to need in their future lives.

This act, in conjunction with the student training com- pletion fund, will ensure that their resources and time will not be wasted. It was interesting. I had two duties this morning. One was, of course, to read Bill 52, and by the fact that I was in the House, my other duty was to listen to the member for Vancouver–Mount Pleasant. It appears that she didn't do her first duty, which would have been to read the act, because if she had, she would have found out that the act accomplishes many of the issues for which she was criticizing the minister — primarily, protection of students.

7304 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, OCTOBER 9, 2003 When I go through this act, I see a number of things. Under

section 3, objects of agency: "…to pro- vide consumer protection to the students and prospec- tive students of registered institutions…." That cer- tainly would help alleviate some of the issues that were discussed earlier. Again, "a person must not provide or offer to provide career training unless the person is a registered institution." Further to that, as we go along, it discusses that a person who does so will be commit- ting a criminal act or an offence. [1450] As I go through this, I see nothing but protection. In my view, one of the roles of government is protection.

Regulation, of course, is another strong role. The role of government isn't to provide the service that's required by every British Columbian for every moment of their time. But as a government I think we are carrying an obligation to ensure that as those acts are carried out throughout this province by, in many cases, private organizations, we have a responsibility to ensure the protection of, in this case, those students. So it's easy for me, when I actually go through and read the bill, to support it. Again, as we look back at some of the cases that h a v e h a p p e n e d i n t h e p a s t … .

I l o o k t o s o m e o f t h e newspaper articles I've seen in the past, some of the news clips where there are students all of a sudden showing up somewhere where the doors are closed, wondering where their tuition went. The high quality of education they paid for doesn't exist. Here, there will be a fund that ensures those students will have access to completing that education or to returning the funds that they've paid for such education. In closing, I'd just like to say that I am fully suppor- tive of Bill 52.

I wish all the other members of the House would take the time to read it, because I'm sure they then would be supportive also. H. Bloy: Thank you very much for the opportunity to speak today. But first of all, from my colleague be- side me, there was…. The speaker from Vancouver– Mount Pleasant earlier today was talking about a bill that I'm sure she didn't read either, because she just doesn't get it. She doesn't understand what the Minis- ter of Advanced Education is doing for the students of British Columbia.

This is a bill that was passed earlier, which will allow more student spaces for students in British Co- lumbia, and I believe that is the goal of this govern- ment. It's what they wanted to do. That member for Vancouver–Mount Pleasant does not understand and continued to attack the bill, but she was in part of the government for ten years where they didn't have any increases in students. They actually reduced the fund- ing to advanced education over ten years. We as a government have increased the funding to advanced education.

We have allowed the universities to set their own tuition fees, which — can you believe it? — has allowed them to hire more professors, and there's more classroom space. I just wanted to say again how much I support the Minister of Advanced Education on Bill 35. I stand here today also to talk about Bill 52, Private Career Training Institutions Act. I would like to an- nounce my support for this act. You know, I support it for many reasons, but the fact that it'll provide con- sumer protection for students is number one, as well as establish a standard of quality that must be met by all the private institutions.

The private institutions are accredited institutions. They've all gone through a process. The bill will allow for both appointed and elected members of the board. The board will have the opportunity to establish its own practices and procedures. These practices and procedures will be maintained in a complete and accu- rate recordkeeping, but they will be doing it for their industry, for their training. It's not one size fits all; it's specific to their training needs. All of these bylaws will be and must be made available to the public at any time.

The bill will allow for the establishment of a student training completion fund. Money paid into this fund will be held in trust by the agency. This money must be accounted for sepa- rately from other moneys of the agency, and these funds will not be subject to any process of seizure or attachment by any creditor or agency. They will further protect the student enrolment tuition fees, and the moneys can only be invested as per the Trustee Act of British Columbia. Registered institutions will make payments to the fund through the board at times and in amounts re- quired by regulation.

Prior to a student beginning a career training program, the registered institution must collect from the student and pay to the fund, through the board, the prescribed training completion fee for the program. The board may authorize payments to be made from the fund for refunding a portion of the tui- tion fees a student has paid to a registered institution that ceases to operate so that the refund compensates the students for the uncompleted portion of the pro- gram.

Also, on request of the student, a refund could be calculated to pay another registered institution that agrees to allow the student to complete the program at that registered institution. This will further ensure that our students have the maximum opportunity to com- plete all of their required instructions, no matter what registered institution they happen to be attending. [1455] A claim against the fund must comply with the regulations and be filed with the board within one year after the institution to which the claim relates ceases to operate.

The board has exclusive jurisdiction to hear and decide claims against the fund. The board may prorate payments among claimants if the fund is insuf- ficient to pay all the claims. This is where the students are protected, and this is where our Minister of Ad- vanced Education is allowing for the expansion of trade schools. There are many expansions. I would like to read a press release that was sent out on October 8 of this year, and it was from myself. It says: "Burquitlam MLA Harry Bloy said Burnaby pip- ing trades apprentices can learn their skills at their own

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 9, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7305 pace, thanks to a provincewide initiative to improve access to certified industry trades education. In most cases, industrial trade schools require students to commit to fixed core schedules which may not be suited to their learning needs." It means that there will now be so much more flexi- bility with the addition of more private training facili- ties, and students will be able to take the trades and the educational part of their program when they can take it — when their trade may be slow, possibly in the winter months.

So there will be a lot of flexibility. Core studies are often set in stone, and trainees have no option but to learn at the same pace as the rest of the class. I think this takes away from opportunities for students to per- fect the skills they would like to spend more time working on. I believe the government has responded to these issues by partnering with a number of industrial trade schools to develop flexible, certified training programs which will allow students to learn at their own pace.

One of the schools, Burnaby's Pacific Vocational Col- lege, has received $131,000 to develop a pilot project for self-paced level 1 certification training for the pip- ing trades — plumbing, gas-fitting, steam-fitting and sprinkler-fitting. Because of the actions of our Minister of Advanced Education, there are now many more opportunities in British Columbia for students to learn the trades and to get the education they require for the future. I'd like to stand here and offer my support for Bill 52. D. Hayer: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker, for allowing me to rise again to address this House on another educa- tion matter, Bill 52, relating to private career training institutions. This act is another that is very worthy of support by this House, as was Bill 35 to which so many of us spoke in favour of this morning. It will assist students throughout this province to gain a better education while at the same time protecting those students who are buying the services of private educational institu- tions.

We have all heard of stories in which students have found private education institutions failing, of lost tui- tion and lost training, which forced students back to square one. It has cost them time that can never be re- covered, and it has cost them lost opportunity. This bill will protect those students from failure of private learning institutions. It will ensure there is in place a student training completion fund.

This fund will en- sure that if for any reason a private institution fails its student body, there is the ability for those students to switch to another institution or at least receive a refund of their tuition payments. This is good news for stu- dents. It brings a feeling of security to them, knowing that after they do their part, the government has re- quired the institution to do their part.

As we all know, it is difficult enough for many stu- dents to struggle with post-secondary education and perhaps juggle a part-time job while they study, with- out having to worry that their classes may collapse partway through the educational program. This bill may not prevent the institution from, for whatever reason, going under, but it will protect the vulnerable student, and that is good news for our students. [1500] As the minister said this morning in moving this bill, these private institutions are a very important part of the post-secondary education system in our prov- ince.

This bill will bring British Columbia in line with other provinces by once again reducing government regulation and allowing the private post-secondary sector to take greater responsibility for their actions. I want to assure this House that while this bill does add a regulatory requirement that protects students, it still ends up with a net reduction in the regulatory burden placed on private education institutions. I want the House to know that this bill will take into consideration the interests of both students and business, and that is good news for both.

Everybody involved has been asking for this legislation. I'm very happy to say that this government has not only lis- tened to what they had to say, but with this bill they're actually taking action on what they had to say. That is why I want to make this brief statement in support of this bill and to urge all others in this House to support Bill 52. S. Orr: I'm speaking in support of Bill 52. I speak in support of this bill because it's building the space and the capacity of post-secondary education in private career training institutions. I listened to the debate on this bill this morning with keen interest.

The member for Vancouver–Mount Pleasant spent a good part of her ramble on the argu- ment: how can organizations focused on making profit guarantee quality education? How could people in the private sector possibly do something right? Well, let's deal with that first. Post-secondary insti- tutions succeed and thrive on one thing and one thing only: their reputation. Where does that reputation come from? Well, quality. As with any business, a pri- vate educational institute relies on its reputation to succeed and keep its doors open.

If an organization has a poor-quality product, it will not attain a good reputa- tion. If its product and reputation are poor, that or- ganization will not survive. It is in the best interest — in fact, it's in the sole interest — of a private institution to maintain quality of programs. Otherwise they will just go out of business because unlike private institu- tions, they receive no government funding and must sustain themselves. And they do go out of business. That has happened because they did not have the qual- ity. The institutions have a vested interest in meeting the needs of students.

In addition, those private institu- tions wanting to be designated for student financial assistance purposes must be accredited and must meet quality standards. Now, moving along from that, let me respond to some of the comments made by the member for Vancouver– Mount Pleasant when she singled out the private insti- tution Sprott-Shaw College. This is a college in Victoria

7306 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, OCTOBER 9, 2003 that has a good reputation and has been here a long time. Let's talk about that organization that's 100 years old and now has 21 schools. For the record, as of Au- gust 1, 2003, Sprott-Shaw Community College was the only multi-campus organization to go through the rig- orous accreditation process and receive 24 commenda- tions for the excellence of their operations and zero requirements. [1505] It is also interesting to note that this process was the identical process used for many years in accrediting private training institutions.

Sprott-Shaw Community College was the first private proprietary institution in Canada to be accredited by the College of Licensed Practical Nurses of B.C. to train nurses for employ- ment. It is interesting to note that out of their 34 gradu- ating students, all 34 passed the nursing exam. When the second group of students wrote the test, it is also interesting to note that the aggregate passing rate for the 561 Canadian students who wrote the test at the same time — that's the passing rate — as reported by the College of Licensed Practical Nurses was only 73 percent.

Another point is that their internally devel- oped practical nurse curriculum is the actual curricu- lum that is used at many of the public colleges throughout the province. It was also of interest to note that the member used Mr. Brazier as an example. Now, the member was right when she said Mr. Brazier was dissatisfied with what he received at Sprott-Shaw College. What she failed to put on the record was this. Mr. Brazier, who was signed up for a webmaster program, was a WCB-sponsored student. He was dissatisfied. He was refunded his tuition….

He wasn't; it was refunded b ac k t o W C B , as t he y we re t he s p o ns o ri ng p ro g r am . Then they put him through another program. That was a fact that was just missed out. I think that's a very big fact. Another example that came out came from a former employee. She mentioned Kim Lichtensteiger when she talked about: "…Sprott-Shaw would not be ordering any new textbooks to supply its courses for three years, something" — this is Ms.

Lichtensteiger — "she thought makes it hard to tell students they are getting the latest information, especially in rapidly changing fields like technology and computer software." Well, this is a little confusing, because in fact the students purchase their own books. The school does not supply the books. The students purchase their books. The books are reviewed every three years, but in high technology they are reviewed every year.

I feel it was extremely important — after some of the comments that were made this morning about this college, which actually does do a very good job — to get on the record what was actually stated and what is actual fact. What I would like to just say to close is that I really want to thank the minister. She recognizes — and she has worked very hard at this — the importance of these institutions. These institutions are good institutions. They are there to build capacity. They gives spaces to many, many students. This act accomplishes the pro- tection of the students. This is what we are all here for.

We are here for students and access to post-secondary education. S. Brice: I am pleased to stand and, as well, speak to this bill this afternoon, as I am pleased to stand and speak about any of the legislation that has been brought to this House by the Minister of Advanced Education. This minister has, with thoroughness and passion, taken on the task of looking to see how she can get access to post-secondary education for all stu- dents in British Columbia. Our Minister of Advanced Education recognizes that a student can be anyone from 18 years of age to probably 60.

This Minister of Advanced Education realizes that a student who may at one point access a public institution in this province may at some other time in their education be accessing a private facility in this province. This is not a piece of legislation which stands apart and separate from all of the other very integral, well- thought-out, well-established policies and legislation that the Minister of Advanced Education has brought into this Legislature for this House to consider.

The minister has been a champion for students in this prov- ince. [1510] The minister has increased the public post- secondary system by 3,154 full-time-equivalent student spaces for '03-04, and that's on top of the 2,700 spaces in the previous year. This minister has added 825 new seats in computer science and electrical and computer engineering; more than 1,800 new seats for nursing students; and has committed to adding 124 new spaces for medical students, doubling the current number of graduates to a total of 228.

This is part of the ongoing plan of this minister to meet the needs of all students in this province, regardless of when they have to access the service. Many of them will take one or two years, perhaps when they're younger, perhaps at a public institution. Then, as they go about their life, they will find they need specific skills to go out into the market- place and to find a facility, oftentimes a private facility, which can meet their very specific needs — so greater opportunities to access post-secondary education.

In the public system this minister — the minister who is bringing Bill 52 to us — in previous opportuni- ties, exercises, has increased funding to institutions by a total of $12 million in '03-04, which was due to pru- dent fiscal management, in addition to the $32 million added last year, along with a $10 million one-time funding boost due to ministry administrative cost sav- ings.

This minister has established a $45 million leading- edge endowment fund, and that was fulfilling a prom- ise to create a cost-sharing program to establish 20 leadership chairs in the fields of medical, social, envi- ronmental and technical research. This minister has the confidence in British Columbians to establish at the universities very professional and well-backgrounded

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 9, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7307 individuals to run these institutions and boards, and this minister returned to those boards the authority to establish at their own institutions just what level of tuition fees students should be paying. This minister recognized that in the years leading up to her assuming that role, the freeze on tuition fees had put a freeze on growth. It had put a freeze on in- novation, and it had put a freeze on opportunities for students.

This Minister of Advanced Education lifted that freeze — that freeze on innovation, on growth, on the ability of institutions to set their own tuition rates. Despite the fact that some institutions have had to ad- dress those years of underfunding due to that false freeze on education, the university fees in British Co- lumbia are still lower than Ontario, Alberta, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Saskatchewan. This is all within the ministry's mandate of increasing opportuni- ties for future students in British Columbia.

This is the background in the public institutions, and now Bill 52 comes forward to provide yet another very important part of the package for post-secondary education. Many students will avail themselves of private in- stitution training. They'll do it, never knowing that Bill 52 exists. It won't be front and centre in their day-to- day lives. Hopefully, they will go, they will ascertain what their needs are, they will search the marketplace, they will find institutions that meet their needs, they will enrol, they will take the courses, they will succeed, and then they will move on with their careers.

They will never know that a bill such as Bill 52 is being de- bated in the Legislature such as it is today. Bill 52 will provide a protection for them which, hopefully, they will never have to access. This bill, of course, replaces the PPSEC with a private career training institution agency, with this agency much more in tune with today's marketplace — less hidebound concern about parts of administration which didn't deal w i t h s t u d e n t s ' n e e d s . I t o n c e a g a i n b r i n g s B .

C . i n t o l i n e with what is going on in other provinces. [1515] It will focus on registering those institutions providing training beyond specified time-and-cost thresholds. Obviously, the institutions that want their students to be able to take advantage of student loans are going to have to be registered and meet the criteria that are established by this agency. You know, the consumer protection aspect of Bill 52 cannot be understated.

In my previous life as executive director of the Better Business Bureau, some of the saddest cases for me were when I would go and be met by students who had paid a good de al of money, had started courses and then arrived at their school to a sign that said "Closed." Those students felt desperate. Not only had many of them taken out loans to get that far, some of them had made incredible commitments within their own families to allow them to get some more training, and then the institution closed. For a variety of reasons these things happen.

The consumer protection that is in Bill 52 mirrors the very successful legislation that is in place for people who travel within British Columbia, which is that everybody who may some day have to access that support pays something for the service. This is truly user-pay. The students will have to pay. This will be identified in regulation, just to what extent they must pay. It will be an insurance which, of course, they hope they never have to trigger.

I am delighted to stand here and support Bill 52, because Bill 52 is just one of the important pieces of legislation which this minister is bringing to this House in order to have a complete package of post-secondary education opportunities, private and public, available to all students throughout British Columbia. This bill that is brought to us for consideration deserves unani- mous support in this House. I'm delighted to stand here and support it. R. Lee: I would like to stand to speak in support of the bill. The bill is named Private Career Training Insti- tutions Act.

This bill actually will create more choices for stu- dents, for consumers. Despite a lot of efforts in this province to increase the number of seats in post- secondary institutes, the demand is still there — very high. For the past two years, we can see that there were almost 6,000 seats created for the post-secondary insti- tutes. That's a tremendous increase in two years. It is about 3.7 percent. I f y o u l o o k a t t h e n u m b e r o f s t u d e n t s t h a t g r a d u - ated in 2001-02, the number only increased by about 600 to 700.

In terms of the population of graduates — about 39,000 — the increase in the number of student graduates was only 0.18 percent, compared to the number of seats available in that year, over two years — an average of 1.8 percent. You get ten times the number of seats increased as compared to the number of students graduating from grade 12. Despite all that, there are also professional seat va- cancies available in post-secondary institutes. For ex- ample, we have 1,800 new seats for nursing students. Those are students who are interested in pursuing a c a r e e r i n n u r s i n g .

W e u n d e r s t a n d t h a t o v e r , s a y , t h e past few years, we've had a shortage of nurses in our society, in our institutes. That kind of increase of, for example, 1,800 seats for nursing students is a very posi- tive element to increase the number of professionals in our future. [1520] I understand that in many institutes, including some private institutes, they have new programs for profes- sional students and for nursing students. Some of those students will be coming from private institutes.

It's a very positive development for the students in this province, as well as for the nursing and the medi- cal fields . At UBC, we unde rs tand that there will be a lot of development on the new Life Sciences Centre in cooperation with UNBC and UBC. Those kinds of training institutes are important to train future profes- sions. I also was very pleased to see that in terms of re- search and development, there is $45 million allocated

7308 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, OCTOBER 9, 2003 for leading-edge and endowment funds. That kind of support for research and development is very impor- tant. Over the past few years, the total allocation com- mitted for research and development and technology development is about $900 million — since June 2001. That kind of commitment by this government will go a long way in creating new areas of innovation and re- search in this province. As I said, despite this kind of investment in our education system, there is still quite a lot of demand for our post-secondary institutes.

The bill introduced to- day will actually protect the students going into private career training. That kind of protection will increase the money available in case some of the institutes fail. In the old system, the institutes put up some kind of bond that would protect the students if they cannot complete the program. But for this new kind of model, all the students, when they are entering the institute, will also help to contribute to a completion fund.

That fund will be available for students who cannot com- plete their studies in case the institute they attend failed, but the institutes have to be registered under this kind of a model. S o f o r t h e c o n s u m e r s , i t ' s v e r y c l e a r . I f t h e y w a n t consumer protection, they will go to the institutes, reg- ister under this act, under this kind of model. Before, over 1,000 of our institutes were registered under PPSEC. Some of those institutes may not deliver good programs, so they fail. Under this registration proce- dure, the consumer will be really clear.

They will see that if the registration is completed for certain insti- tutes, they will have the protection. They can complete their studies in due course. They are independent of the success, or not, of the institute they are attending. These kinds of registration programs are important for consumer protection. In my community, there is also some concern on the registration of ESL language institutes. Under this act, those language institutes can also register.

It would be a bonus for them if they can register under this act so that the students coming to their institute will know that they are under that kind of protection too. I can imagine in the future many of those institutes, the language institutes, will voluntar- ily register under this act. This is not a major concern, I believe. I would like to offer my support to this act, and I will be very pleased to see this act come into action. [1525] E. Brenzinger: I am pleased to rise and speak to Bill 52, the Private Career Training Institutions Act.

I want to thank the Minister of Advanced Education for this bill, which will provide more access, choice and secu- rity to students in British Columbia. Here's how this bill will enable us to do this. To start with, this act reduces the regulatory burden on private training institutions and recognizes the im- portant role that these institutions play in post- secondary education in this province. As there is an ever-increasing demand for student spaces and a need for more skilled workers in B.C., it is important that we acknowledge the role that private training institutions play in filling that void.

The Private Career Training Institutions Act will repeal and replace the Private Post-Secondary Educa- tion Act. This will accommodate recommendations from the core services review concerning the Private Post-Secondary Education Commission, also known as PPSEC. In addition, the review of the Private Post- Secondary Education Act found that current legislation and regulations were too broad, especially when com- pared to other Canadian jurisdictions, including the provinces of Alberta and Ontario.

This new legislation is intended to bring British Columbia in line with the other provinces by reducing government regulation of the private post-secondary sector while encouraging industry to assume greater responsibility for its actions. This new model for regu- lating these private post-secondary institutions is con- sistent with government's new-era commitment to re- duce bureaucracy. Reducing the regulatory burden for private training institutions will allow them to reinvest time and money into expansion of their business.

Growth in this sector of the economy will expand the range of quality learning choices and spaces for stu- dents in British Columbia. The Ministry of Advanced Education consulted with the private post-secondary stakeholders and ob- tained advice to help the ministry draft the Private Career Training Institutions Act. The consultation process included the creation of an industry-based ad- visory committee in the spring of 2002 and the devel- opment and release of a discussion paper in the fall of 2002 that discussed the proposed mandate, governance and funding arrangements for the new private training model.

I am proud to say that this ministry always in- cludes students in consultations. Students provided feedback on PPSEC and the proposed private training model in the discussion paper. Education is no differ- ent from business. It is too difficult for young people to attend post-secondary institutions. It results in fewer educated, qualified graduates to contribute to the Brit- ish Columbia workforce. We need a skilled workforce to continue the growth of our economy. This act directly impacts my community in Surrey, which is one of the fastest-growing communities in Canada.

A recently released Statistics Canada report showed that 54 percent of people living in the lower mainland, including the Surrey area, immigrated there. This is evident in my hometown of Surrey. The large immigrant population in Surrey and elsewhere has created a huge demand for resources that help new residents learn a new language, the English-as-a- second-language courses. The act speaks directly to the private institutions that are offering these services. Not only does this act put the needs of students first, it also helps to stimulate growth in this sector.

While private institutions will not be required to register with the new agency, they are encouraged to do so on a voluntary basis. This is consistent with other jurisdictions across Canada that could be considered

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 9, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7309 competitors for the international ESL student market. These private institutions will play an even greater role as they obtain approval to grant degrees. Earlier this year the Degree Authorization Act was passed, author- izing both private and public post-secondary institu- tions to grant degrees. [1530] I am also excited about this legislation because it will protect students' interests through tuition protec- tion and will enable private training institutions to con- tinue offering educational choices.

This is an important part of our commitment to students. There have been situations in the past where stu- dents at private sector schools have borrowed money to upgrade their education, only to be crushed when they learn the school has closed because of financial difficulty. Those students not only lost their money, but their hopes and dreams were crushed when their dreams of an improved life were crushed. This act will make sure that doesn't happen again.

Plus, this act will ensure that the people of my rid- ing are able to take advantage of programs that will help them to learn a new language and enter the work- force. I commend the Minister of Advanced Education for putting through this Bill 52, and I am happy to support it. R. Hawes: Like my colleagues before me, I'm pleased to stand today and also support this bill. My colleague from Saanich South spoke earlier about the advances the minister has made in developing new seats in universities across this province — wonderful strides over the last two years.

What I like particularly about this bill is that this is the career training part of the education piece. This is not about university post-secondary degrees; this is about career training. I know — and I know many oth- ers in this House know — from experience partly, that in every high school in this province there's a fairly substantial number of students who are never going on to university. In my riding it's a very, very significant number. It's well over 80 percent of our students who are not going to go on to university training.

Yet for years, career training and careers such as plumbers, electricians and cosmetologists, etc., have been deni- grated as being something inferior. As a result, we are facing a massive, massive skills shortage in this prov- ince, and it's coming soon. Trained tradespeople are going to be in a huge, huge deficit — and very shortly, as we have an aging workforce of accredited tradespeople. These people are not being trained in our public institutions.

As we ad- vance the number of seats in the publicly funded insti- tutions, and as we look at the budget constraints all of us have to live under and this government is struggling under, it's not possible for us to open publicly funded institutions to provide enough skilled people to fill the need we're going to face very shortly.

When the member for Vancouver–Mount Pleasant spoke this morning about the evils of the private sector being involved in education, surely she couldn't have been implying that somehow the public purse be opened wide enough to open publicly funded career training institutions all over this province to meet the needs we're going to face here within the next few years. Actually, when I think about it, she probably did mean we should do that, because the members from that side of the House don't seem to get it. They don't seem to understand that people have to live within budgets.

It's something that every one of us faces in our life. Unless we happen to be born into one of the silver-spoon families with multimillions that don't care — and that's very few of us — all of us live within budgets. Governments are absolutely no differ- ent — from our side of the House, anyway. [1535] Clearly, for the last ten years the government of the day, the NDP, did not understand what living within a budget meant. From the member's remarks this morn- ing, it's pretty clear that the lessons that should have been learned over the last ten years haven't hit home with her.

She continues to talk about the evils of the pri- v a t e s e c t o r i n e d u c a t i o n a n d h o w t h e y h a v e t o b e c u r - tailed. Somehow making a profit would mean putting students behind your ability to make a profit, and some- how students would suffer greatly. She doesn't seem to understand that the marketplace sorts all of this out, that private sector training institutions that do an inferior job actually wind up going out of business and don't sur- vive because they develop a poor reputation.

I'm really pleased this minister recognizes the com- ing skills shortage, and this goes a great deal towards addressing that by removing a lot of the encumbrances and the red tape and the costs of running private edu- cational institutes. We need those institutes to spring up in greater numbers to provide the kind of training that is going to be necessary for all of the trades we're now seeing are going to be in great shortage. Last spring there was a graduation ceremony in my riding at the Riverside Centre.

The Riverside Centre is a skills and technical training school that was opened b y s c h o o l d i s t r i c t 7 5 . I t ' s a p u b l i c l y f u n d e d t r a i n i n g institution, but it was opened basically without any extra funding coming from government. It operates very much like a private training institute would. The school board has had to work this off the back of the desk and try to beg, borrow and steal enough money to get this institution open. They're trying to run it just exactly the way a private institution would.

I want to talk for a minute about that institution, about the Riverside Centre and what it does, because it so much fits with what this bill is going to allow to happen. The Mission school board recognized there are all kinds of kids who can be seen early in their high school career, grade 10 maybe, who are in jeopardy of dropping out, who aren't fitting the educational cur- riculum at all and for whom the educational system, as it's laid out, has no relevance. These are kids who aren't lacking intelligence but who are unable to really cope with the curriculum as it's stipulated, so they wind up dropping out.

This is happening in cities all across this province, and all of us know that.

7310 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, OCTOBER 9, 2003 In recognition of that and in recognition, too, that the kids that have dropped out of school are often the kids that you find on the street, they're often kids that fill the homeless rolls. In fact, when you go down and look in Vancouver or other places where there are squats, quite often numbers of the people there will be kids who dropped out of school at an early age, be- cause for them education wasn't relevant.

The Mission school board, through Riverside Cen- tre, has reached out to a bunch of those dropouts and tried to reconnect them to an educational program that will not just give them their Dogwood diploma — their grade 12, which is a prerequisite of graduating from Riverside Centre — but give them technical training. It's a preapprenticeship program with pretty much a guarantee of employment for these kids. I can tell you that they offer cosmetology. They offer cooking classes and mechanics.

They have a carpentry course that's a certificate program which will offer framing, window and door-hanging certificates, which are all part of the certificate program that will lead to full journeyman status as you get enough certificates. You can at some point go for the Red Seal program, which is a full tradesman designation. [1540] I can tell you that we attended the graduation cere- mony for a bunch of students that came out of Riverside Centre last year, and we made a tour of the school.

After the ceremony a mother of a student came to me in the hallway of the school where the graduation ceremony took place. The way she was walking, to be honest with you, I thought she was going to come up and lay a pretty heavy complaint, but instead she said: "My son just received a certificate for hanging doors and win- dows. He's a mentally challenged boy who can't read and really has had no hope of employment in a mean- ingful way until this program came along. And now he has the certificate to hang doors and windows. He's very p r o f i c i e n t a t i t .

H e ' s v e r y p r o u d o f w h a t h e ' s g o t , a n d he's going to go out in the workforce." He may never go further in the certificate program. He may never become — and probably never will — a journeyman carpenter, but because of the changes the minister has made and because of the implementation of the certificate program, this young lad has a piece of paper that gives him a designation he can take for the rest of his life. He has a skill that's documented and certified that he can sell, and he very proudly is doing that. His mother is absolutely thrilled.

That's the kind of innovative change that the minis- ter's putting in place and that she recognizes is impor- t a n t a s w e m o v e o n i n d e v e l o p i n g a p o s t - s e c o n d a r y education system in this province. She's well aware that a huge percentage of our kids aren't going to uni- versity. They're not going to be doctors, and thankfully, they're not going to be lawyers. I see a number of them in the House here, and they would probably say the same thing.

But they are going to be tradespeople, and they are going to provide services in a service industry that requires some skills training, and they're now go- ing to get it much easier through this bill. I believe there is going to be a huge number of new accredited private training facilities, career training facilities, that are going to open because of this bill. The previous system run through PPSEC was very regula- tory with far too much red tape and was expensive for the career training institution. Frankly, it offered the kind of things that the member from the other side of the House really liked.

That's: "Let's have the govern- ment be Big Brother to everyone. Let's not have anyone responsible for any decisions they make in their life. Let's make the taxpayer provide the safety net for every- body's decision on everything. At the same time, let's employ a whole bunch of people to operate that safety net, and we'll get the money from these rich people working in private industry" — who of course have all left and gone to Alberta. That's the way it was operating before.

The changes being made and the things being recognized are that the private sector actually takes huge pride in doing the job well — and they do do the job well. They do it best when government gets out of the way and allows them to do the job they want to do and they're sup- posed to do. People will choose, without a lot of safety net from the government, the private operators that offer the best service, that have the best ability to stay in business because they offer quality service. People, without a safety net, will again learn you need to do a little research, and you need to protect yourself a little bit.

Government isn't going to help you with all of your decisions and make them very easy. This bill says that if you're going to school less than 40 hours a week and your tuition fees are less than a thousand dollars, you're not going to be offered protec- tion if the organization you've paid your tuition to happens to fold or go broke or something happens. You'll still have recourse through the small debts court system, but you're not going to have Big Brother there holding your hand.

Frankly, if you're going to take the kind of course that is less than a thousand dollars, you should research who you're paying the money to. You should know the school that's offering the course. As the member for Saanich South said — she was the for- mer director of the Better Business Bureau on the Is- land here — maybe you should check with organiza- tions like that and make sure that who you're doing business with is reputable. If it's over a thousand dollars and you're going more than 40 hours, you will be offered protection.

There will be a fund so that if the educational institu- tion stops offering the service or financially collapses or for any reason suspends your education in the course you've paid for, you will either get transferred to an- other organization offering the same course or get your money back. There are protections here. [1545] The biggest thing…. I spoke about this when we spoke on the previous bill that this minister brought forward this morning, Bill 37. That was a small bill with I think a very, very large symbolic meaning. In this bill there's some very large symbolic meaning as well.

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 9, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7311 Just to reiterate a little bit of what I said this morn- ing on the previous bill, we have committed to a de- regulation process in this province that's unprece- dented, and we've gone a long, long way down the road to achieving the objectives that we've set out. This bill helps accomplish that. This bill removes a consid- erable amount of regulation that has been put in front of these private educational institutions. The relevance of that is that business, free enter- prise, is noticing what's happening.

As they notice what's happening here in this province, they begin to put their money back here — money that has left this province. The two members opposite frequently like to refer to us as being in tenth place economically in this province. The fact is that their policies took us to tenth place, last place in the country, and to turn around that ship does take a little bit of time. I know that a huge amount of investment is today waiting at our borders, wanting to know we are not going to see in this province a return to that socialist, left-wing, anti-business type of thinking.

So they want to see what's going to happen on May 17, 2005, when the new election comes up.

What a wonderful oppor- tunity for the people of this province to show the pri- vate sector, the investment community, that we have confidence in them; that we welcome their investment in this province; that we want job creation in this prov- ince; that we have a government that understands what business needs; that business, free enterprise business, is the job engine and that it's not government; that we're going to get out of taxpayers' pockets to the greatest extent possible; and that our target is to be the lowest taxed in the country.

What an opportunity for the people of this province in May of 2005 to tell business: "We support that kind of thinking, and we absolutely reject the policies that were there for the last ten years under the NDP." I be- lieve the people of this province are going to take that opportunity. I think the people of this province are going to look at legislation like this, understand it, understand the comments made by the member for Vancouver– Mount Pleasant and how those comments really are typical of that old way of thinking — that government should look after everyone.

I think that the people of this province want the kinds of changes that we see coming in this bill. I be- lieve that our kids, our youth all across this province, the majority of our youth who are not going on to UBC or the University of Northern British Columbia or UVic, the kids that are now going to be looking to go to a trade school, that are going to look for a career oppor- tunity — w h e t h e r i t b e i n p l u m b i n g o r e l e c t r i c a l o r perhaps a legal secretary type of position….

These are the kids who are going to benefit from this legislation. [1550] J u s t b ri e f l y , I d o al s o want t o s ay t hat t hi s l e g i s l a- tion doesn't completely supplant what's happening in the public education sector either. I'll give an example: a legal secretary course. I know that you can take a legal secretary course at the University College of the Fraser Valley, a publicly funded institution. You can also take that same course through one of the private career corporations in the Fraser Valley or in Vancou- ver, and the difference is the time you want to spend going to the course.

If you want to take it in the public sector, the cost is somewhat less, but the time is about double. I can't remember exactly what the dates are, but it's something like two years in the private sector and four years if you're going to the university college. It may be one year versus two years, but it's a signifi- cant time difference. There's a decision now, a choice students would have: pay a little more and go private — and get your certification a bit earlier and get out in the workforce earlier — or pay a little less and go in the public system. It takes a bit longer.

There are some other courses in it that, while they're great courses, perhaps are not as directly beneficial towards the spe- cific job you're looking for. The choices are still going to be there. This doesn't supplant the public education system in any way, but it certainly enhances the educational opportunities that we need and that are going to happen in the private sector. There simply isn't enough money in our coffers.

There isn't enough money in government to open pub- lic education institutes and supply all of the training opportunities we need and still have enough money to supply our health needs and all our other needs in this province. I find it so interesting to listen to those two mem- bers opposite as they jump from topic to topic. Every single thing they talk about is about: why have you taken money out of something? Why aren't you putting more money into something? All of this really enforces my belief that they have absolutely no connection with the real world when it comes to fiscal responsibility.

These are people who were on a wild spending spree and, if they were still in power, would have continued to be on a wild spending spree and in listening to them — if, God forbid, they ever, ever regained a position of power — would be straight back on that wild spending spree. It would be at the expense of my kids and my grandchildren, and yours. I don't think we can allow that to happen. I've rambled on a little bit about this bill. It is a piece of good news, and it is very symbolic of the direc- tion in which this government wants to take this prov- ince.

I think it's very symbolic of the philosophy that we on this side of the House want to take this province down. We are embracing a philosophy of free enter- prise. Mr. Speaker, if you look around the world, if you look across this country at what's happened in those places that have truly embraced socialism, you see eco- nomic havoc, you see ruination, and what you really see is the destruction of the public institutions that all of us have depended on. When Ontario was under the NDP administration, they drove themselves into such horrendous debt that their bond ratings were threat- ened.

In fact, their public institutions were threatened. I really marvel at the commonsense revolution. Mike Harris's government was elected and did exactly what they said they were going to do, and the public

7312 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T HURSDAY, OCTOBER 9, 2003 was actually very appreciative of that and showed it in a subsequent election. It's remarkable to me that when there was a change in leadership in Ontario and when, in an attempt to woo the voter, that government tried to buy votes by going back on a bit of a spending spree, they were repudiated by the people. The people under- stand that you can't spend more money than you have.

I also note with interest that the bond spread we enjoy as a province is now better than the bond spread of the province of Ontario, because we have much, much better control of our finances; we have much, much better control of our budget; and we are moving to a balanced budget. So I know, in looking at what's happening in just our credit reputation around the world, we are moving in the right direction. [1555] Going back to this bill, it does echo the philosophy of our government, and I'm extremely proud of our minister for bringing it forward.

I'm extremely proud of the way our minister has related to the youth of this province as she's visited city after city, including my own, and I'm really proud of the way she reacted when she saw the Riverside Centre in my own community and the kind of innovation they've brought to the edu- cation system.

I know that in her mind, as she brings a bill like this forward, she sees Riverside Centre–type institutions springing up in all corners of this province — operated through the private sector, offering wonderful oppor- tunities to our youth and allowing the kids who aren't going on to university to have pride in what they're doing, to have a job in British Columbia that pays real money and allows them to become taxpaying voting citizens of this province. With that, I'm proud to support this bill, and I'll let others speak. B.

Locke: I, too, rise in this House in support of Bill 52, the Private Career Training Institutions Act. I must commend the Minister of Advanced Education for the incredible job she has done. I listened to the member for Burnaby North talk about the numbers and the in- creases in the student body and in the province. I want to talk about just 200 of those students — 200 students that were going to Tech B.C. at one time, 200 students whose career paths were at risk because the previous government thought of a great idea. They thought of this university; they just didn't think they had to fund it.

The problem that was left for these students was…. They had engaged in their university education; they had their hopes and dreams in front of them. They had a whole lifetime of planning that was virtually put in limbo because there was no effective and efficient management of their career paths. This minister made sure that those students were protected. Not only would no other university in the province accept their credentials from Tech B.C., but they had an investment that they would never be able to capitalize on. This minister ensured that their futures were secured.

She conducted a number of different interviews with other universities and came up with the Simon Fraser University option, which we in Sur- rey are very thankful for and very proud of. I can tell you that without her dedication to students and to education, especially post-secondary, it wouldn't hap- pen for those students. So I applaud her and thank her for that. I want to tell you, too, about problems we've had in Surrey with the previous administration and their idea of post-secondary education. There was a field in Cloverdale, in Surrey, that remained vacant. It was just a field with nothing going on there.

But we were sup- posed to look at that field and dream of a Kwantlen University College campus there. There was, again, no plan, no management, no foresight, no projections for dollars. We were just supposed to dream. Well, unfor- tunately, there is no reality to the dream that the previ- ous government had. Again, this Minister of Advanced Education made sure the dream could be a reality. She worked very hard to ensure that there were actual, real dollars that were going to go into that project. That was pretty important.

I can talk to you, too, about a hairdressing student that graduated from high school in our community. It was her dream to go to a private institution. They did a great job. That student now has a certificate and has a very good career path for her. [1600] Surrey is a rapidly growing community with a very young demographic. Our young students are looking to new and innovative career opportunities. Today middle-aged and older students are also looking to new opportunities and upgrading their old skills.

While our public post-secondary institutions in British Columbia are second to none, often it's the private post-secondary institutions that offer a unique option for many students who want to increase their skill sets. We are in a very fast-paced world, with ever- growing changes in our workforce. Businesses are looking for new and well-trained people to fill a myr- iad of specialized jobs. We're in changing times, with changing technologies that put significant demands on both employers and employees. Keeping up with that rapid change is challenging. I remember an old résumé of mine from the seven- ties.

Not one of those skill sets that I used in 1970 would I use today. I doubt that most people in the of- fice workforce that I was in use any of those technolo- gies today. I mean, we think of things like telex and switchboards and typewriters. None of those pieces of equipment are used. Today's office workplace is com- pletely different, and it's not just the office workplace that's changed. All workplaces have changed. This new bill will encourage private post-secondary institutions to reinvest and expand their busin

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H1009pm 14
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H1009pm 14
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	3b2bb332f3aca0bcdb1083409fff817df891fd17

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (pdf).