British Columbia Hansard — Wednesday, October 21, 2009

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British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

First Session, 39th Parliament o FFicial rePort o F Debates of the Legis Lative a ssemb Ly (hansarD) the honourable bill bari So FF, SPeaker iSSn 0709-1281 Wednesday, October 21, 2009 Afternoon Sitting Volume 5, Number 3

Pro Vince o F britiS h colu Mbia (entered c onfederation July 20, 1871) lieutenant -Go Vernor h is h onour the h onourable Steven l. Point, obc First Session, 39th Parliament SPeaker o F the leGiS latiVe a SSeMbl Y h onourable bill barisoff eXecutiVe council Premier and President of the executive c ouncil ......................................................................................................h on.

Gordon c ampbell Minister of State for intergovernmental r elations ....................................................................................................h on. n aomi Y amamoto Deputy Premier and Minister of Finance .......................................................................................................................... h on. c olin h ansen Minister of State for the o lympics and a ctn ow b.c. ....................................................................................................... h on.

Mary Mcn eil Minister of a boriginal r elations and r econciliation .....................................................................................................h on. George a bbott Minister of a dvanced e ducation and l abour Market Development ............................................................................ h on. Moira Stilwell Minister of a griculture and l ands ...................................................................................................................................h on.

Steve Thomson a ttorney General ...................................................................................................................................................... h on. Michael de Jong, Qc Minister of c hildren and Family Development and Minister r esponsible for c hild c are ............................................h on.

Mary Polak Minister of citizens' Services and Minister r esponsible for Multiculturalism and the Public a ffairs bureau ...........h on. ben Stewart Minister of c ommunity and r ural Development ................................................................................................................h on. bill bennett Minister of e ducation and Minister r esponsible for early l earning and l iteracy ......................................h on.

Margaret MacDiarmid Minister of energy, Mines and Petroleum r esources .....................................................................................................h on. blair l ekstrom Minister of State for Mining ................................................................................................................................................h on. r andy h awes Minister of environment .......................................................................................................................................................h on. barry Penner Minister of State for c limate a ction ...........................................................................................................................................h on.

John Y ap Minister of Forests and r ange and Minister r esponsible for the integrated l and Management bureau ........................... h on.

Pat bell Minister of h ealth Services ...................................................................................................................................................h on. k evin Falcon Minister of h ealthy l iving and Sport ...................................................................................................................................... h on. ida c hong Minister of h ousing and Social Development .................................................................................................................h on. r ich c oleman Minister of l abour ................................................................................................................................................................ h on.

Murray c oell Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General .....................................................................................................................h on. k ash h eed Minister of Small business, t echnology and e conomic Development ................................................................................ h on. iain black Minister of t ourism, c ulture and the a rts ...................................................................................................................... h on. k evin k rueger Minister of t ransportation and infrastructure ...................................................................................................................h on.

Shirley bond leGiS latiVe a SSeMbl Y l eader of the official o pposition ...................................................................................................................................................c arole James Deputy Speaker .................................................................................................................................................................................... l inda r eid a ssistant Deputy Speaker .............................................................................................................................................................c laire t revena Deputy c hair, c ommittee of the Whole .......................................................................................................................................... h arry bloy c lerk of the l egislative a ssembly...................................................................................................................e.

George MacMinn, obc, Q c c lerk a ssistant ..................................................................................................................................................................................r obert Vaive c lerk a ssistant and l aw c lerk................................................................................................................................................. ian D. izard, Qc c lerk a ssistant and c lerk of c ommittees ................................................................................................................................. craig h.

James c lerk a ssistant and c ommittee c lerk .................................................................................................................................... k ate r yan-l loyd Sergeant-at-a rms .................................................................................................................................................................................

Gary l enz Director, h ansard Services ............................................................................................................................................................Jo-a nne k ern a cting l egislative l ibrarian .......................................................................................................................................................... Peter Gourlay l egislative c omptroller ....................................................................................................................................................................... Dan a rbic

alP habetical liS t o F MeMberS a bbott, h on. George (l) ........................................................................ Shuswap a ustin, r obin (nDP) ................................................................................ Skeena bains, h arry (nDP) ....................................................................Surrey-n ewton barisoff, h on. bill (l) ............................................................................Penticton barnett, Donna (l) ................................................................ c ariboo-c hilcotin bell, h on.

Pat (l) ..................................................... Prince George–Mackenzie bennett, h on. bill (l) ...................................................................k ootenay e ast black, Dawn (nDP) ................................................................n ew Westminster black, h on. iain (l) ..................................................... Port Moody–c oquitlam bloy, h arry (l) ......................................................................burnaby-l ougheed bond, h on.

Shirley (l) ...........................................Prince George–Valemount brar, Jagrup (nDP) ................................................................ Surrey-Fleetwood c adieux, Stephanie (l) ...........................................................Surrey-Panorama c ampbell, h on. Gordon (l) .........................................Vancouver–Point Grey c antelon, r on (l) ..............................................................

Parksville-Qualicum c hong, h on. ida (l) ..................................................... o ak bay–Gordon h ead c houhan, r aj (nDP) ........................................................... burnaby-e dmonds c oell, h on. Murray (l) ....................................Saanich n orth and the islands c oleman, h on. r ich (l) ...........................................

Fort l angley–a ldergrove c onroy, katrine (nDP) .............................................................. k ootenay West c oons, Gary (nDP) .........................................................................n orth c oast c orrigan, k athy (nDP) ..................................................... burnaby–Deer l ake Dalton, Marc (l) .............................................................. Maple r idge–Mission de Jong, h on.

Michael, Qc (l) .............................................. a bbotsford West Dix, a drian (nDP) ............................................................Vancouver-kingsway Donaldson, Doug (nDP) ......................................................................... Stikine e lmore, Mable (nDP) ................................................... Vancouver-kensington Falcon, h on. k evin (l) ..........................................................Surrey-c loverdale Farnworth, Mike (nDP) ............................................................

Port c oquitlam Fleming, r ob (nDP) .......................................................... Victoria–Swan l ake Foster, eric (l) .......................................................................Vernon-Monashee Fraser, Scott (nDP) ............................................................a lberni–Pacific r im Gentner, Guy (nDP) .........................................................................Delta n orth h ammell, Sue (nDP) .................................................... Surrey–Green t imbers h ansen, h on. c olin (l) ..................................................

Vancouver-Quilchena h awes, h on. r andy (l) ..................................................... a bbotsford-Mission h ayer, Dave S. (l) .................................................................... Surrey-t ynehead h eed, h on. k ash (l) ...................................................... Vancouver-Fraserview h erbert, Spencer (nDP) ..................................................Vancouver–West end h ogg, Gordon (l) ............................................................... Surrey–White r ock h organ, John (nDP) .......................................................................

Juan de Fuca h orne, Douglas (l) ..............................................c oquitlam–b urke Mountain h oward, r ob (l) .....................................................................r ichmond c entre h untington, Vicki (ind.) ..................................................................Delta South James, c arole (nDP) .........................................................Victoria–b eacon h ill k aragianis, Maurine (nDP) ........................................e squimalt–r oyal r oads k rog, l eonard (nDP) ........................................................................... n anaimo k rueger, h on. k evin (l) ..................................... k amloops–South Thompson kwan, Jenny Wai ching (nDP) ...........................

Vancouver–Mount Pleasant l ake, t erry (l) .....................................................k amloops–n orth Thompson l ali, h arry (nDP) ..........................................................................Fraser-n icola l ee, r ichard t . (l) .......................................................................burnaby n orth l ekstrom, h on. blair (l) .......................................................

Peace r iver South l es, John (l) .........................................................................................c hilliwack l etnick, n orm (l) ........................................................k elowna–l ake c ountry MacDiarmid, h on. Margaret (l) ..................................... Vancouver-Fairview Macdonald, n orm (nDP) ....................................c olumbia r iver–r evelstoke Mcintyre, Joan (l) ..................................................West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Mcn eil, h on.

Mary (l) .................................................Vancouver–False creek Mcr ae, Don (l) ............................................................................. c omox Valley Mungall, Michelle (nDP) ..........................................................n elson-creston Penner, hon. barry (l) ............................................................c hilliwack-h ope Pimm, Pat (l) ..........................................................................Peace r iver n orth Polak, h on.

Mary (l) ...............................................................................l angley Popham, l ana (nDP) ...................................................................Saanich South r alston, bruce (nDP) ................................................................

Surrey-Whalley r eid, l inda (l) .............................................................................r ichmond e ast r outley, bill (nDP) .................................................................. c owichan Valley r outley, Doug (nDP) ............................................n anaimo–n orth c owichan r ustad, John (l) ........................................................................... n echako l akes Sather, Michael (nDP) ......................................... Maple r idge–Pitt Meadows Simons, n icholas (nDP) ...................................

Powell r iver–Sunshine c oast Simpson, bob (nDP) ...................................................................c ariboo n orth Simpson, Shane (nDP) .....................................................Vancouver-hastings Slater, John (l) ..............................................................boundary-Similkameen Stewart, h on. ben (l) ........................................................... Westside-kelowna Stilwell, h on. Moira (l) ...................................................... Vancouver-l angara Sultan, r alph (l) .....................................................

West Vancouver–capilano Thomson, hon. Steve (l) ........................................................k elowna-Mission Thorne, Diane (nDP) .................................................c oquitlam-Maillardville Thornthwaite, Jane (l) .......................................... n orth Vancouver–Seymour t revena, c laire (nDP) .................................................................... n orth island van Dongen, John (l) .............................................................a bbotsford South Y amamoto, hon. n aomi (l) ................................. n orth Vancouver–l onsdale Y ap, hon.

John (l) .............................................................r ichmond-Steveston liS t o F MeMberS bY riD in G a bbotsford-Mission .............................................................h on. r andy h awes a bbotsford South .....................................................................John van Dongen a bbotsford West ...................................................... h on. Michael de Jong, Qc a lberni–Pacific r im ..........................................................................

Scott Fraser boundary-Similkameen .....................................................................John Slater burnaby–Deer l ake ................................................................... k athy c orrigan burnaby-e dmonds ......................................................................... r aj c houhan burnaby-l ougheed ............................................................................ h arry bloy burnaby n orth .............................................................................. r ichard t . l ee c ariboo-c hilcotin ........................................................................Donna barnett c ariboo n orth ................................................................................ bob Simpson c hilliwack ...............................................................................................

John l es c hilliwack-h ope ...................................................................h on. barry Penner c olumbia r iver–r evelstoke .................................................. n orm Macdonald c omox Valley.................................................................................... Don Mcr ae c oquitlam–b urke Mountain .....................................................Douglas h orne c oquitlam-Maillardville...............................................................

Diane Thorne c owichan Valley ................................................................................ bill r outley Delta n orth ......................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South ...............................................................................Vicki h untington e squimalt–r oyal r oads .....................................................Maurine k aragianis Fort l angley–a ldergrove ...................................................h on. r ich c oleman Fraser-n icola........................................................................................ h arry l ali Juan de Fuca .....................................................................................John h organ k amloops–n orth Thompson .............................................................t erry l ake k amloops–South Thompson ............................................ h on. k evin k rueger k elowna–l ake c ountry ...............................................................n orm l etnick k elowna-Mission .............................................................. h on.

Steve Thomson k ootenay e ast .......................................................................... h on. bill bennett k ootenay West ............................................................................ k atrine c onroy l angley.......................................................................................h on. Mary Polak Maple r idge–Mission .....................................................................

Marc Dalton Maple r idge–Pitt Meadows ........................................................Michael Sather n anaimo ......................................................................................... l eonard k rog n anaimo–n orth c owichan ......................................................... Doug r outley n echako l akes ..................................................................................

John r ustad n elson-creston ........................................................................Michelle Mungall n ew Westminster ..............................................................................Dawn black n orth c oast....................................................................................... Gary c oons n orth island .................................................................................. c laire t revena n orth Vancouver–l onsdale ........................................h on. n aomi Y amamoto n orth Vancouver–Seymour .................................................

Jane Thornthwaite o ak bay–Gordon h ead ............................................................ h on. ida c hong Parksville-Qualicum ..................................................................... r on c antelon Peace r iver n orth ................................................................................

Pat Pimm Peace r iver South ...............................................................h on. blair l ekstrom Penticton................................................................................... h on. bill barisoff Port c oquitlam ..........................................................................Mike Farnworth Port Moody–c oquitlam .............................................................h on. iain black Powell r iver–Sunshine c oast ................................................. n icholas Simons Prince George–Mackenzie .............................................................h on.

Pat bell Prince George–Valemount ...................................................h on. Shirley bond r ichmond c entre ............................................................................ r ob h oward r ichmond e ast ................................................................................... l inda r eid r ichmond-Steveston .................................................................... h on. John Y ap Saanich n orth and the islands ........................................... h on.

Murray c oell Saanich South ................................................................................ l ana Popham Shuswap ...............................................................................h on. George a bbott Skeena .............................................................................................. r obin a ustin Stikine .......................................................................................

Doug Donaldson Surrey-c loverdale .................................................................h on. k evin Falcon Surrey-Fleetwood ...............................................................................Jagrup brar Surrey–Green t imbers ..................................................................Sue h ammell Surrey-n ewton ................................................................................. h arry b ains Surrey-Panorama ..................................................................Stephanie c adieux Surrey-t ynehead ...........................................................................

Dave S. h ayer Surrey-Whalley.............................................................................. bruce r alston Surrey–White r ock ....................................................................... Gordon h ogg Vancouver-Fairview ............................................. h on. Margaret MacDiarmid Vancouver–False creek ........................................................ h on.

Mary Mcn eil Vancouver-Fraserview ..............................................................h on. k ash h eed Vancouver-hastings ....................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-kensington .................................................................Mable e lmore Vancouver-kingsway..........................................................................a drian Dix Vancouver-l angara ............................................................. h on. Moira Stilwell Vancouver–Mount Pleasant .........................................

Jenny Wai ching kwan Vancouver–Point Grey .................................................h on.

Gordon c ampbell Vancouver-Quilchena ..........................................................h on. c olin h ansen Vancouver–West end ................................................................Spencer h erbert Vernon-Monashee ...............................................................................eric Foster Victoria–b eacon h ill .......................................................................c arole James Victoria–Swan l ake.........................................................................r ob Fleming West Vancouver–capilano ............................................................. r alph Sultan West Vancouver–Sea to Sky ........................................................

Joan Mcintyre Westside-kelowna ...................................................................h on. ben Stewart Party Standings: l iberal 49; n ew Democratic 35; independent 1

CONTENTS Wednesday, october 21, 2009 a fternoon Sitting Page Routine Business introductions by Members ..................................................................................................................................................... 1357 introduction and First r eading of bills ................................................................................................................................ 1359 bill 15 — Motor Vehicle a mendment a ct, 2009 h on. k. h eed Statements (Standing order 25b) ......................................................................................................................................... 1360 Gerry Zimmerman n. l etnick r ent banks S. h ammell l ocal food and agriculture r . c antelon h omelessness J. kwan r ichmond o lympic o val r . h oward Women's equality and leadership M. e lmore oral Questions ......................................................................................................................................................................... 1362 Government purchase of o lympic Games tickets and hospitality suites c.

James h on. M. Mcn eil k. c orrigan J. kwan o lympic Games tickets for government Mla s M. Farnworth h on. M. Mcn eil Provision of traffic fine revenues to local government V . huntington h on. b. bennett Government action on gambling and organized crime S. Simpson h on. k. h eed Status of integrated illegal gambling enforcement team b. r alston h on. k. h eed Funding for carbon reduction initiatives in school districts r . a ustin h on. M. MacDiarmid r .

Fleming r eports from c ommittees ...................................................................................................................................................... 1367 Select Standing c ommittee on Parliamentary r eform, ethical c onduct, Standing orders and Private b ills n. l etnick

Orders of the Day c ommittee of the Whole h ouse ............................................................................................................................................ 1367 bill 13 — Miscellaneous Statutes a mendment a ct, 2009 l. k rog h on. G. a bbott h on. M. Stilwell S. Simpson h on.

M. de Jong h on. b. bennett V . huntington Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room c ommittee of Supply .............................................................................................................................................................. 1398 e stimates: Ministry of h ealthy l iving and Sport (continued) h on. i. c hong h on. M. Mcn eil k. c orrigan S. Simpson k. c onroy D. r outley J. brar S. Fraser M. Farnworth b. r alston S. h erbert r . Fleming

1357 WeD neSD a Y , october 21, 2009 The h ouse met at 1:36 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Routine Business Prayers. Introductions by Members S. Simpson: i'm pleased today to have the opportun- ity to introduce my two constituency assistants who are here today, r achel Garrick and brenda t ombs. i really want to thank them for the remarkable work they do for me every day in Vancouver-hastings. Without them, the work simply wouldn't get done. i'd also like to introduce my wife, c ate Jones, who is visiting us here today. i hope everybody will make them welcome. Hon. K.

Heed: i'd ask the h ouse to please join me in welcoming a number of guests here today. These people share my commitment to public safety and safer roads in british c olumbia. First of all, Dr. brian brody, president of the b.c.

Medical a ssociation; also c layton Pecknold, vice- president of the b.c. a ssociation of c hiefs of Police and deputy chief of c entral Saanich. a lso here today are o ak bay Police c hief r on Gaudet; insp. t ed Smith, rcMP island district traffic services; Staff Sgt. a ndrew isles, rcMP capital regional dis- trict integrated road safety; t race a cres from the b.c. a utomobile a ssociation; Jane Dyson, executive director of the b.c. c oalition of People with Disabilities; l indsay o lson and Serge c orbeil with the insurance bureau of c anada for Saskatchewan and Manitoba; and n icolas Jimenez from icbc.

Thank you all for taking the time to be here today. N. Macdonald: a couple of introductions. First, Mr. k endall Duce, who is a friend and a fellow teacher from Golden Secondary School. h e's here attending the b.c. teachers institute — a great teacher, a great basketball coach. i'd like you to join me in making him welcome. a s well, i would like to introduce Ms. Joy orr and Ms. l eslie a dams, who are constituency assistants attending the opposition's ca conference. i'd also like to ask you to make them welcome. L. Reid: Mr.

Speaker, on your behalf, i'm pleased to welcome and introduce 14 teachers from across british c olumbia who have been selected to participate in the ninth b.c. t eachers institute on Parliamentary Democracy. They will be with us for the remainder of this week, expanding their knowledge of the parlia- mentary and political systems. They are joined by three of their peers who are acting as facilitators: Ms. a shley bakker, Ms. Donna Dunn and Mr. Grant Frater. i trust many of you will have the opportunity to meet with them during the institute and specifically at the reception this evening hosted by the hon.

Minister of e ducation. Would the h ouse please make them very welcome. D. Black: i'm pleased to rise today and introduce the constituency assistant from my office in n ew Westminster, Jarrah h odge. Jarrah is a young woman with a lot of energy and a very high intellect, and i am delighted to have her as my constituency assistant. Please make her welcome. [1340] D. Barnett: t oday i have two of my constituents here with me who own Meadow Springs r anch in the c ariboo-c hilcotin.

They are ranchers, and they are also guest-ranchers — k athy and Mark McMillan. i would like to say that Mark and k athy are also very involved in the c owboy h eritage Society, Mark as a vice-president and k athy as secretary-treasurer. i ask the h ouse to wel- come them here today. M. Mungall: it's my great pleasure to introduce my two constituency assistants, l aurie l angille and Della Mcl eod. They are both here all the way from n elson- creston, joining a wonderful conference where they're getting educated and learning as much as they can to be wonderful ca s, which they will be in the next four years.

May the h ouse make them very welcome. P . Pimm: i have a couple of very special guests here today. My daughter Jennifer Pimm and her boyfriend, k arl Waugh, are here. They've come down from Fort St. John to be with us today. They wanted to join us for question period, and i'm sure we'll be very polite and thoughtful in question period today for them. Thank you very much, and help me welcome them to the h ouse. K.

Corrigan: i'm very delighted to have here today two constituency assistants, one of whom i think is going to be introduced three times today because she is none other than the incomparable c ate Jones, who has been announced once already as Shane's wife. a s well, David Pereira, who is a wonderful young man, has joined my staff. So we have a wonderful team, and i hope the h ouse will make them both welcome. M. Dalton: i would like to acknowledge the pres- ence of a special guest today from Mission. Merlyn h orton is the founder of S olo S, an acronym for Safe o nline o utreach Society. She and her team have made

british c olumbia Debates1358 Wednesday, o ctober 21, 2009 over 500 presentations before tens of thousands of students. She addresses social technology related to cyber - bullying, sexting, luring and gang recruitment. For years she has worked as a social worker with youth on the streets. She wanted to be where they were. t oday, increasingly, youth are on social networks with their hosts of potential dangers, and that's where she is to help. We appreciate all that Merlyn and others like her are doing to make our children safer. Would the h ouse please make her feel welcome. L.

Krog: i'm delighted today to ask the h ouse to wel- come my constituency assistant, Pauline c arroll, who served not only myself but previous members of this assembly and does a very good job in protecting me. R. Chouhan: in the gallery today we have already two wonderful and very great ca s who, unlike yours…. An Hon. Member: They're on their way. R. Chouhan: o h, they're on their way. o kay. c ate Jones and l aarni de los r eyes are here with us today, and they are going to be here all day, so please make them welcome. N.

Simons: it's with pleasure that i welcome to the h ouse today my two constituency assistants: from the upper Sunshine c oast, the incomparable Maggie h athaway, and from the lower Sunshine c oast, the other incomparable, k im t ournat. Will the h ouse please make them welcome. R. Austin: it's my privilege to welcome my ca s from the northwest. From k itimat, i have r oberta Walker here, and from t errace, Denis Gagné and a rjunna Miyagawa. Will the h ouse please join me in making them welcome. V .

Huntington: i'm pleased to introduce a guest today from my riding of Delta South, Miss k risten bishop, who is a native of t sawwassen, a graduate of South Delta Secondary School and bcit and the sales manager of the c oast t sawwassen inn. She's also a director of the business improvement association of t sawwassen. k risten is the daughter of Sylvia bishop, also a con- stituent and good friend of mine, who is well known to the opposition members in this h ouse for her activ- ities within their party. Would the h ouse make k risten welcome. M.

Karagianis: i'd like to join my colleagues in wel- coming my ca s today. i will not be introducing c ate Jones, because she actually doesn't work in my office. but i do have two amazing people, and they are Jayne Ducker and Dave Ferguson. i would like everyone to make them very welcome. [1345] J. Brar: We have two very, very special guests today — so special that the majority of the time i do whatever they ask me to do. They are r uby bhandal and Peter l eblanc. They are both constituency assistants at Surrey- Fleetwood. Please make them feel welcome. M.

Elmore: it's my pleasure and a great privilege to introduce my terrific team of constituency assistants from Vancouver-kensington: Thomas l ou, k elly r ead, Steven k lein and Maita Santiago — terrific representa- tives. They are a great team. i ask the h ouse to please make them feel very welcome. G.

Gentner: it's a great deal of pleasure to introduce to the h ouse — and with all due respect to my col- leagues — the two hardest-working ca s in the prov- ince of british c olumbia. i'd like to introduce Sheryl Seale, who is unfortunately not in the gallery but in my office working as we speak, and my other ca , l orinder birak, who is here today in the gallery. i have to give her a quick plug. l orinder, of course, is a former radio broadcaster, and she now has her own t V show — Cultural Connect, i believe. it's at 6:30 to 7:30 t uesday or Thursday, something like that. c heck it out on your channel 4 in Delta.

D. Routley: i'd like to join my colleagues in welcoming ca s to this building. k arlene bara and Patty Mcnamara are great servants to our community. o ur ca s provide excellent service to those people that we represent. They do it on a daily basis. They never seem to fail the people that we seek to represent, so we owe them our greatest and most sincere thanks. S. Hammell: i'd also like to introduce my ca, brett barden. brett joined me in January from c anWest, and my constituents and i have been very lucky with that decision he made to come with us. So would the h ouse please make brett welcome. D.

Donaldson: Somewhere up there in the rarefied air is a dream team, and there they are — Julie Maitland, Shelley Worthington and Michelle l arstone, constitu- ency assistants for Stikine. Would the h ouse make them welcome, please. M. Sather: i, too, would like to welcome my constitu- ency assistants to the h ouse: Sidhartha r amsoondar and Donann k inar. This is Sid's first visit, and Donann has been here a number of times. i also wanted to wel-

british c olumbia DebatesWednesday, o ctober 21, 2009 1359 come Sheryl Seale, who was my ca before the member for Delta n orth stole her from me. G. Coons: i also would like to echo the gratitude for having my two constituency assistants here, Pauline Woodrow and erika r olston, who serve the n orth c oast extremely well. Please make them welcome. Mr. Speaker: Member for c ariboo n orth. B. Simpson: Thank you, Madam…. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My apologies. Mr. Speaker: a nd i didn't even move you this time. B.

Simpson: i know. i just would like to introduce two people — and it fits with my gaffe — who keep trying to make me look good against all the odds. My two ca s are in the h ouse today, a dam Schaan and a ngie Sandve. i ask you to make them feel welcome. K. Conroy: i, too, would like to introduce my ca s, e dena brown and e laine Whitehead. it's interesting that e dena and e laine have been with me since 2005, but e laine actually worked with my husband, e d, for seven years before that.

So she's been a ca for 12 years, which i think is one of the few that are that long. i just want to take a personal moment and wish my husband a happy birthday. h e's home watching QP on dialysis, and i'm sure it's one of the few dialysis units in b.c. that actually watch QP . [1350] Mr. Speaker: i think we'd all like to say hi to e d and wish him a happy birthday. S. Herbert: i would like to acknowledge my con- stituency assistant, Sian Madoc-Jones, who has joined us today. She serves the West end very well.

Thank you very much for being here. i would also like to acknowledge Daniel r oyer, who is a teacher here today for the parliamentary dem- ocracy sessions. i'd like to thank him for doing the work he does with his students and welcome him to Victoria. J. Kwan: i'm sure that members of the h ouse have caught on that this is ca appreciation day for the n DP caucus. l ike all my colleagues, i would like to welcome, of course, Stuart a lcock, who has been with our office for a long time now and manages to keep me on the straight and narrow.

With Stuart is l isa Macl eod, who has newly joined as a constituency assistant in our office and who will soon be cracking the whip to keep me on the straight and narrow. Would the house please welcome l isa. H. Lali: Mr.

Speaker, just when you thought it was all over. i know everybody loves their constituency assistants, and i know some of the members opposite made some comments about their constituency assist- ants being the best, but i really am saving the best for last. i know both my constituency assistants are here. one is actually sitting up in the gallery, and the other one is actually in the precinct somewhere. i don't see her. Shirley r hodes is one of the constituency assistants who has been working with me. This is her fifth year now. before that she was the constituency assistant to Member of Parliament n elson r iis.

My second constitu- ency assistant is k im Sekhon, who is sitting up in the galleries there with her husband, Sam. Sam is here for the first time in the l egislature. i would like the h ouse to make my constituency assistants and Sam welcome and give them a big round of applause, please. Hon. I. Chong: Well, i don't have a constituency assistant to introduce today, but i would like to acknow- ledge and ask the h ouse to once again welcome o ak bay's finest, o ak bay police chief r on Gaudet, who joins us here today. Would the h ouse please make him very welcome. Mr.

Speaker: Member for k ootenay West, we already wished e d a happy birthday. K. Conroy: i just have one more acknowledgment i'd like to make. My other ca, Sheren Spilker, couldn't be with us this week because she's home with her sister, Sandy k orman. We had an acknowledgment of Sandy last night for the incredible work she's done as a ca for the past years in the '90s and again for c orky in the past five years. We just want to acknowledge her work again in the h ouse here today. Mr. Speaker: if you are a ca from the opposition benches, i'm sure that the members would have wel- comed you if they had a chance.

Introduction and First Reading of Bills bill 15 — M otor V ehicle aMenDMent act , 2009 h on. k. h eed presented a message from h is h onour the l ieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Motor Vehicle a mendment a ct, 2009. Hon. K. Heed: i move that the bill be introduced and read a first time now.

british c olumbia Debates1360 Wednesday, o ctober 21, 2009 Motion approved. Hon. K. Heed: Mr. Speaker, i am pleased to intro- duce the Motor Vehicle a mendment a ct, 2009. This bill contains amendments to address the problem of driver distraction caused by the use of cell phones and other electronic devices while driving. These amendments will mean safer roads by helping to ensure that drivers keep their hands on the wheel and their eyes on the road.

This bill prohibits drivers from holding electronic devices, operating them, talking on hand-held cell phones and using them to send e-mails or text messages. a ll drivers in british c olumbia will be covered by these changes. h owever, new drivers in the graduated licensing program will be prohibited from using hand- held and hands-free devices while driving. e xceptions to these rules include police, fire and ambulance person- nel while they are performing their job functions.

The only other exceptions are when drivers need to call 911 to report an emergency or if they are safely parked off of the roadway. [1355] We have all seen near misses on the road because drivers were not paying attention, and some of us have seen the devastating consequences of driver distraction. a t the end of the day, i believe the changes i am announ- cing will save lives in british c olumbia. Mr.

Speaker, i move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the h ouse after today. bill 15, Motor Vehicle a mendment a ct, 2009, intro- duced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the h ouse after today. Statements (Standing Order 25B) Gerr Y ZiMMerMan N.

Letnick: i would like to make a special mention and thanks to someone who is well known in our province, and that is retired kelowna Fire chief Gerry Zimmerman. in 2003 the o kanagan Mountain Park fires caused the evacuation of some 45,000 people and consumed 239 homes. Sixty fire departments, 1,400 a rmed Forces troops and 1,000 forest fire fighters took

part in controlling the fire but were largely helpless in stopping the disaster. Gerry is a local and provincial hero for his leadership in fighting this fire. This is why he received his honor - ary doctor of laws degree from o kanagan u niversity c ollege in 2005. Gerry, at age 60, retired as fire chief in early 2006 after 15 years of brave service. h owever, for the past six months Gerry has been fighting his own personal battle with acute pancreatitis. t wo of those months were spent in an induced coma.

Five hundred people, including our Premier and his wife, attended a public prayer service in Gerry's honour early in his illness. The very next day he began to react positively to his treatment and started the slow road to recovery. i am pleased to report today that on o ctober 9, Gerry was released from k elowna General h ospital to be with his family.

During the fires Gerry said: "i thought we had lost people and there was nothing we could do — that tomorrow we were going to count the bodies." h e also said during his battle with pancreatitis that there were many down days. h owever, in both battles he has shown incredible leadership, bravery and perseverance. it was through the amazing support of friends, family, staff at k elowna General h ospital and the community as a whole that he is home today. h e has a way to go, including getting strong enough to hold his new grand- child — his granddaughter, who is six months old — but as always, he will achieve his goal. i ask the h ouse to join me in recognizing Gerry Zimmerman, one of our province's heroes, and give thanks for his recovery. rent bankS S.

Hammell: There are three new banks opening soon, one in Surrey, a bbotsford and Prince George. h opefully, a branch will open near you.

These new banks are modelled on a concept that has been running successfully in ontario and c algary. it's a rent bank, and its sole purpose is to prevent homeless- ness. a t this bank small loans are made to people who are in danger of becoming homeless to shore up their ability to survive during a difficult period of time. t oday i'm pleased to share with the h ouse this new local initiative from n ewton a dvocacy Group Society, also affectionately known to many of us in Surrey as na GS. l ast week na GS received $60,000 from Surrey h omelessness and h ousing t ask Force to deliver this 24-month pilot project, the Surrey rent bank.

The project is a homelessness prevention initiative aimed at keeping a roof over the heads of renters at risk. The project will provide emergency loans for families and individuals to prevent residential evictions and avoid ter- mination of utilities. in the pilot period approximately 30 loans will be provided to pay for rental and utility arrears. Program participants will be expected to repay their loans within two years and participate in money management work- shops focusing on such topics as budgeting, improving credit, asset-building and responsible consumerism.

For the past ten years the c algary rent bank has proven to be a permanent and positive solution to pre- vent homelessness. The n ewton a dvocacy Group hopes

british c olumbia DebatesWednesday, o ctober 21, 2009 1361 to follow in c algary's footsteps by bringing this success- ful rent bank initiative to Surrey. [1400] The Surrey rent bank will help low-income residents stay in their homes, and i am pleased to have this oppor- tunity to congratulate na GS. local Foo D anD a Griculture R.

Cantelon: We all returned this week after Thanks- giving break, and many of us came back with slightly tighter waistbands as we took full advantage and indulged — perhaps overindulged, i hope — in some of the fine, great locally grown and raised products from pumpkin pies to turkeys. i bought my turkey from a man called eric bolton. h e is a farmer on Gabriola island. h is farm is really the hub of agriculture. h e's an integral part of the entire com- munity, because not only does he raise excellent beef and poultry, but also the manure from his farm fertilizes and enriches all the tomato growers and vegetable farms throughout Gabriola island. it's really an integrated farm system.

Y ou can buy eric's beef and poultry at Pipers Meat in n anaimo. They rush off the shelves as soon as they hit it, because everybody knows how wonderful the food is, how nutritious and enriching it is. Y ou eat healthy; you'll be healthier. i called eric up to thank him for the wonderful pro- duct that i and the family enjoyed.

We didn't have a scrap left, which was unusual. eric asked me for one thing on behalf of the farm industry, and i'm sure it's something that both sides of the h ouse can endorse and apply. h e wasn't asking for thanks, and he certainly wasn't asking for money. eric said: "Farmers just want one thing. Farmers want encouragement." i ask both sides of the h ouse to join with me in encouraging farmers to continue to produce the excel- lent, fine b.c.-grown products that they do and thank them for all their hard work and commitment in raising these products for our tables. ho MeleSS neSS J.

Kwan: l ast week was h omelessness a ction Week. it is estimated that there are over 10,000 homeless people in our communities, of which 32 percent are aboriginal, and amongst women, 50 percent. a home- less person dies every 12 days in b.c. l ast week the opposition leader and i met with representatives from the aboriginal transformative justice project, where they once again raised the desperate need for addi- tional aboriginal-specific services, housing and home- less shelter.

We met with VanDo and the c arnegie action pro- ject. ca P recently finished a community visioning and mapping process that involved over 1,200 low-income residents in the Downtown e astside. The mapping project identified at least ten community assets in the Downtown e astside that residents want to preserve. They include acceptance, empathy, social justice, appreciation for community and cultural heritage, a strong sense of community.

People at all the mapping sessions stated the need for good-quality, affordable self-contained housing to be built in the community. a s one woman said: "i could have a whole other life if i could just be in affordable housing. l iving in an Sro limits my capability of being a grandmother. More social housing is desperately needed." one person said of Mavis McMullen h ousing: "When my life crashed and burned, i needed housing, and wel- fare was only $610. This housing saved my life, and life lost is harshness. it kept me from destitution." c urrently there are nearly 700 people homeless in the Downtown e astside.

Displacement is really hap- pening. in 2009 caP's hotel survey found an additional 800 hotel rooms between 2008 and 2009 lost to rent increases beyond what people under the low-income cutoff can afford. c anada is the only G8 country without a national housing plan or poverty reduction strategy. i ask all members of the h ouse to join me in renewing our resolve to end homelessness. richM onD ol YMPic o Val R. Howard: The run-up to the 2010 o lympic and Paralympic Winter Games has been given another boost.

There's an increasing sense of confidence and a strong sense of pride in r ichmond and, i think, the province.

The pride was felt again last Friday when the multiple award-winning and iconic r ichmond o val beat out a strong field of competitors, including beijing's spectacu- lar bird nest stadium and the Wimbledon centre court roof, to win the institution of Structural engineers top international award for sports or leisure structures. in granting this prestigious prize, judges singled out the inventive use of trees killed by the pine beetle to con- struct the incredible wood wave roof. [1405] i would like to extend my congratulations to the com- pany that conceived the design idea for the oval and resulted in this award, Fast + e pp structural engineers.

This local firm was charged by the city of r ichmond to design an innovative and distinctive landmark with a strong focus on sustainable building practices. i'm very proud to say that this outstanding firm not only met the vision set out by the city but exceeded it. c ongratulations are due, as well, to the city of r ichmond staff who lived and breathed this building for

british c olumbia Debates1362 Wednesday, o ctober 21, 2009 many years now and, of course, to the architects, c annon Design, to Fast + e pp structural engineers and all the others whose dedication and passion went into the plan- ning, design and construction of this world-class facility. Y ou can take great pride in this latest major award and in the legacy that the r ichmond o lympic o val will pro- vide for many years to come. i ask that the h ouse please join me in congratulating them all. Wo Men 'S e Qualit Y an D lea Der Shi P M.

Elmore: in 1992 o ctober was designated as Women's h istory Month to encourage greater apprecia- tion of the notable contributions of women to c anadian history. Women in c anada have accomplished many incred- ible achievements, often facing many obstacles such as those faced and conquered by the Famous Five who fought to have women legally recognized as persons in 1929. Women in c anada, however, still face ser - ious obstacles to obtaining equality in this country. Women earn only 71 cents for every dollar earned by a c anadian male.

Women continue to struggle with a lack of child care, and there's a need to create an uni- versal early education and child care program and the need to invest in social infrastructure during this eco- nomic downturn. t hese issues and the numerous other issues faced by c anadian women could be addressed most effectively by having more women in leadership within govern- ment.

Women comprise 52 percent of the population in c anada, yet make up 22 percent of Members of Parliament, 21 percent across c anada at the prov- incial and municipal level, and in b.c. 29 percent of Mla s. there's a need to elect more women to govern- ment and apply a gender and race lens to government policy.

The value and contribution of women in leadership has been marked by the SFu n ancy Mck instry a ward, which awarded b.c. h ydro for recognizing their leader- ship in women and diversity in their workforce and in their leadership. in b.c. h ydro six of the ten top pos- itions in the company, one of the largest electric utilities in c anada, are held by women. They have one of the highest averages in the country.

The global corporate world is recognizing the impact of women as a powerful economic force and the value of diversity — women in leadership from diverse back- grounds and what they can bring to the corporate world — and that diversity is a key means for attracting talent. So i would like you to please join me in congratulat- ing b.c. h ydro to receive the first SFu n ancy Mckinstry a ward to recognize the importance of leadership in gender diversity. Oral Questions Go VernMent Purcha Se o F ol YMPic GaMeS ticket S anD hoSP italit Y SuiteS C.

James: Documents obtained through a freedom- of-information request show that three days after the provincial election, the o lympic secretariat bought 2010 hospitality suites from V anoc. t o the Minister of h ealthy l iving and Sport: can she tell the h ouse what exactly the o lympic secretariat purchased and how many taxpayer dollars were spent? Hon. M.

McNeil: a s the member opposite knows, Foi s are processed by the public service under the Foi a ct, and there's an independent commissioner that they can talk to on this. h aving said that, of the approximately 1.6 million tickets available, the british c olumbian gov- ernment has approximately 3,000 tickets. Mr. Speaker: l eader of the o pposition has a supple- mental. C.

James: i shouldn't be surprised at the response from the minister or the response from this government, who has tried to hide o lympic spending all along. it's very clear that they haven't been open and transparent, and you don't encourage support for the o lympics by hiding the truth from the public. The public expects transparency on o lympic spend- ing. h ere's what the documents confirm: "t ickets will be provided to Mla s and cabinet ministers for the pur- poses of hosting business leaders and dignitaries during the 2010 o lympic Games." [1410] but the invoices were heavily severed.

There's no way to tell exactly how much was spent. So again to the min- ister: will she stop stonewalling, and will she be upfront about exactly how many taxpayer dollars were spent by the o lympic secretariat? Hon. M. McNeil: The provincial government has an opportunity to showcase british c olumbia — our prov- ince, which we're proud of — to the entire world during the most incredible event.

These are the 2010 o lympic and Paralympic Games, and we have the opportunity to invite high-profile dignitaries, business leaders from around the world, investors from around the world to meet with us and participate in the o lympic experience. a gain, we have been allocated approximately 3,000 tick- ets out of 1.6 million tickets. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. l eader of the o pposition has a further supplemental.

british c olumbia DebatesWednesday, o ctober 21, 2009 1363 C. James: What i heard from the minister is that she expects british c olumbians to just trust this government with taxpayer dollars. Well, i'm sorry, but the people of british c olumbia don't trust this government to be open and accountable with taxpayer dollars. l et's remember that this was the government that also said the o lympic secretariat wasn't o lympic spending. i mean, remember that? r emember that quote? So again to the minister. We're treating these tickets like they're a state secret.

The public deserves to know exactly how many dollars were spent and who is going to get those tickets that the minister and the Foi say very clearly are for Mla s for hosting business leaders. Who makes that determination, and who is going to get the taxpayer tickets? Hon. M. McNeil: in addition to inviting high-profile dignitaries, business leaders and investors, we have also, through Gamest own 2010, given tickets to commun- ities all around the province because — as you know, Mr.

Speaker — many in this province are thrilled that the 2010 o lympic Games are coming. of our tickets, we have given tickets to c ampbell r iver. We have given tickets to Princeton. We have given tickets to the c hemainus First n ation and to l adysmith. People in Saanich will be attending. People in t ofino will be attending. i could go on; the list is long. Many people are going to be enjoying these games. K. Corrigan: Potentially hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars were spent on buying hospitality suites for government guests, dignitaries and a select few.

The o lympic secretariat paid for these tickets with taxpayer money, but the minister is saying that the public doesn't have the right to know how much was spent and how it was spent. When will the b.c. l iberals stop treating taxpayers like they don't matter, and when will they start being accountable for their money? Hon. M. McNeil: i find this very regrettable — that during the same week that the o lympic torch is being lit the nDP is trying to pour water over such an incredible event. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Minister, just take your seat for a second. Members. c ontinue, Minister. Hon. M.

McNeil: i'd also like to advise the members opposite that these tickets and suites were offered to this province as a sponsoring body of the 2010 Winter and Paralympic Games. in 114 days the games will begin in british c olumbia, and most in this province are excited about these games — but obviously not those across the aisle. [1415] Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. K. Corrigan: it's shameful the way this government treats the taxpayers.

For years the b.c. l iberals have refused to admit that the o lympic secretariat has any- thing to do with the o lympics, never mind its name and never mind that it's now paying for b.c. l iberal minis- ters to host their 2010 guests. t o the minister: why is her government once again hiding behind the secretariat? Why are the b.c. l iberals refusing to reveal how they plan to entertain their o lympic guests and how much it will cost? Hon. M. McNeil: These o lympics are the largest eco- nomic stimulus that this province could ask for at this time. l eaders around the world… interjections. Mr.

Speaker: Minister, just take your seat. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. c ontinue, Minister. Hon. M. McNeil: …would welcome this opportunity, as was shown two weeks ago. These games are going to drive tourism, they're going to create jobs, and they're going to reinvigorate our economy at the very time this province needs it the most. i think these folks…. interjections. Mr. Speaker: c ontinue, Minister. Hon. M. McNeil: i think it's lost on the members opposite what an incredible economic opportunity these are. J.

Kwan: l ast month we learned that b.c. h ydro has spent $264,000 to buy luxury suites at GM Place. icbc and bclc have also spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on 2010 tickets. n ow we know that there was another purchase made on the taxpayers' dime, this time for the government's own Mla s and cabinet ministers. So a simple question for the minister: just how much are these tickets costing taxpayers, and which Mla s and cabinet ministers will be attending the o lympics on the taxpayers' dime? interjections.

british c olumbia Debates1364 Wednesday, o ctober 21, 2009 Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. M. McNeil: i find this quite shocking — that people are surprised that the province would be inter - ested in buying tickets to the 2010 Winter o lympic and Paralympic Games.

This government is proud to be the host province for these games. a pparently, it's a shock to the members opposite that we would actually want to attend the games that we are hosting. a gain, 250,000 people will be coming to this province for these games, and yes, this province is looking to see what we can do with respect to relationships with busi- ness leaders and investors from around the world. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. J.

Kwan: What is shocking is that this minister would not tell british c olumbians just how much it is going to cost them to host government Mla s and cabinet minis- ters at the o lympics. l ast month we learned that $264,000 of taxpay- ers' money was spent by b.c. h ydro, over $400,000 by icbc and nearly $390,000 by bclc . but what about this government's Mla s and ministers? Well, we still don't know, and this minister won't come clean and tell british c olumbians. Why is she hiding that number?

Why is she not telling british c olumbians how much it is going to cost them for them to buy tickets for government Mla s and government cabinet ministers for the olympic Games? Hon. M. McNeil: There is nothing to hide here. i think if the members opposite.… interjections. Mr. Speaker: Minister, just take your seat. [1420] interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. c ontinue, Minister. Hon. M. McNeil: t o help them with the math, 3,000 tickets is approximately $900,000. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. ol YMPic GaMeS ticket S For Go VernMent Mla s M. Farnworth: Well, Minister, that wasn't painful.

Y ou know, you just had to…. Why did it have to be sev- ered? Why did it have to be severed? So here's the next question. o ttawa has made it clear that no government MPs will be attending the o lympics on taxpayer-paid-for tickets. if they attend the o lympics, it'll be on their own dime. My question to the minister responsible for the o lympics is quite straightforward. Will she assure this h ouse that government Mla s will only be attending the o lympics on their own dime and not on taxpayer- subsidized freebies? This side of the h ouse will be attending on our own dime. Will you be making the same commitment?

Hon. M. McNeil: a s for the amount that the Mla s and the cabinet ministers will be paying, that has not yet been decided. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. M. Farnworth: This gets more interesting by the question.

Whereas o ttawa has already made it clear that MPs will attend the o lympics on their own dime, that side of the h ouse is clearly considering attending the o lympics at the taxpayers' expense. l et me make it clear. We're not talking about the Premier or the minister responsible for the o lympics. but the public expects that government Mla s will attend the o lympics on their own dime, not the public's dime. Will the minister stand up and commit to doing that today? interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. M.

McNeil: When the decision has been made as to how many of the tickets we have been allocated we will be using, and how many guests we will be entertain- ing, we will then let you know how many will be used by the Mla s. Pro ViSion o F traFFic Fine re VenueS to local Go VernMent V . Huntington: i think the other side could do that too, so it's a little less.… My question isn't as exciting, but it's just as important.

Municipalities across this province have been asking the government to institutionalize the traffic fine revenue- sharing program so that the municipalities can have some certainty in their long-range budget planning. t o date the government hasn't provided them an answer. Given that the Minister of c ommunity and r ural Development is responsible for the delivery of the pro- gram, can he give the municipalities of b.c. and the members of this h ouse an assurance that the traffic fine revenue-sharing program will extend beyond 2010 and

british c olumbia DebatesWednesday, o ctober 21, 2009 1365 become a guaranteed component of the municipal poli- cing budgets? [1425] Hon. B. Bennett: if i understand the question from the hon. member, i think she is asking whether or not the traffic fine revenues will continue to be paid to local government. The government, i can tell the member, has absolutely no plans to change the good news that com- munities in this province receive 100 percent of traffic fine revenues. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. V . Huntington: i know the municipalities get 100 per- cent.

The concern is that they won't be getting any after 2010. a t the ubcM, Delta council spoke with the Minister of Finance about this very issue. i wonder if he can give a commitment to this h ouse that those revenues will be ongoing following July 2010. Hon. B. Bennett: i would like to assure the member — and equally important, i would also like to assure local government in the province — that the province has no plans to change the program. The province will continue to pay 100 percent of traffic fine revenues to local government. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. B.

Bennett: The member who asked the ques- tion is being very courteous, as is her style. i do hear some chirping from the other side, so… interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. B. Bennett: …perhaps it would be in order to just remind members who were here in the 1990s that when they were government, they actually reduced the money that was left with local government by $860 mil- lion. So in fact, the member…. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Just sit down, Minister. Members. c ontinue, Minister. Hon. B.

Bennett: in fact, i have a copy of a news release that was released, not by government, by ubcM. it inventories the provincial downloading and cumu- lative impacts by government of the day. in total, they downloaded $846.7 million to local government. in contrast to that, we have given local government 100 percent of traffic fine revenues, and we have doubled small community grants. Mr. Speaker: Member for Vancouver-hastings. S. Simpson: Thank you. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. c ontinue, Member. Go VernMent action on GaMblin G anD or GaniZeD criMe S.

Simpson: Fred Pinnock was a 29-year police offi- cer and former commander of the rcMP's integrated illegal gaming enforcement team. h e has raised serious concerns about what he calls the wilful blindness of the l iberal government on matters related to gaming and organized crime. Mr. Pinnock stated that he had the impression the government was more concerned about the appear - ance of doing something rather than meaningful results. The government's response has been to shut the rcMP down seven months after Mr. Pinnock retired.

My question is to the Solicitor General. c an he tell this h ouse why at this time, when we should be increas- ing pressures on organized crime, the government is shutting these resources down? Hon. K. Heed: First of all, we are not shutting the rcMP down. i think the member made reference to that. We are absolutely not shutting them down. When we're dealing with crimes here in british c ol- umbia, we have the resources to deal with significant crimes.

We have the resources to deal with crimes related to gaming, to organized crime, to gang organiza- tions and members that are involved in this particular type of crime. That will continue. We have enforcement officers with the gaming branch that are working with not only the rcMP , which we're keeping here in british c olumbia, but with local law enforcement people that operate around the issue of gaming and organized crime and gang members that are involved in this type of activity. That will continue. [1430] Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. S.

Simpson: Downloading this onto local govern- ments isn't anybody's solution. When speaking of casinos, Mr. Pinnock stated that there's a ton of criminal activity

british c olumbia Debates1366 Wednesday, o ctober 21, 2009 being conducted in these places every day, including money laundering, loansharking and other enterprise crimes. h e went on to say: "i t seems the way to remain in favour with this government was simply to maintain a statistical, check-the-box-type, radar gun level of enforcement and not meaningful targeting that would significantly disrupt criminal activity." The government is aggressively increasing gaming in b.c. while slashing supports for problem gamblers. n ow they're failing on enforcement protections. h ow can the Solicitor General abandon this aspect of the fight against organized crime and claim he's doing his job?

Hon. K. Heed: This government has added 1,100 police officers to the province of british c olumbia since 2001. This government continues to commit to ensuring that we give back 100 percent of traffic fine revenues to local governments. We are committed to deliver on our seven-point gang and organized crime strategy and deal with these groups that are involved in this type of activity in british c olumbia, and we'll continue to deliver on that. We'll con- tinue to ensure that we have comprehensive approaches to organized crime people in this province, and we will continue to deliver on that as we go forward.

Statu S o F inte Grate D illeGal GaMblin G enForceMent teaM B. Ralston: My question is to the Solicitor General. c an he confirm that the unit that's being spoken of, the anti-gaming unit referenced by Mr. Pinnock, has been shut down? Hon. K. Heed: Mr. Speaker, i'll take that question on notice. Fun Din G For carbon re Duction initiati Ve S in School DiStrict S R. Austin: This government keeps piling costs onto school districts — the h St , increased medicare premiums, slashed Pac grants, funding for b.c .

School Sports. n ow we learn that cash-strapped schools are being forced to spend scarce education dollars on an expensive and unproven carbon-calculating computer program. My question is to the e ducation Minister. if this gov- ernment feels this program is so important, why isn't the ministry fully funding its purchase? Hon. M. MacDiarmid: First, our government is absolutely committed to tackling climate change. british c olumbians are overwhelmingly concerned about this, and they're counting on us to make sure that we meet our targets.

Fully 100 percent of school districts signed on to the climate action charter — 100 percent. it was unanimous. They're all supportive of this, and they all knew that they would be required to use a tool to measure. t o be clear, we're talking about 82 cents per student for the use of this tool. This is at a time when core funding for educa- tion is at an all-time high of $8,300 per student — an increase of $84 million this year. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. The member has a supplemental. R.

Austin: The government is asking schools to take money out of the classroom to buy an unproven computer program, yet the annual facilities grant provided funding for schools to make badly needed upgrades — things like replacing single-pane windows with dual-pane windows. This government eliminated that grant, scuttling projects across the province that would have reduced emissions. a gain to the e ducation Minister: if this government is concerned about reducing emissions, then why did they eliminate the annual facilities grant? [1435] Hon. M.

MacDiarmid: The member is well aware that this year, we are under unusual financial pressure and that school districts were asked to use the almost $100 million they had on reserve at the end of the last fiscal year to do the work for the annual facilities grant. but just to be clear, here are some of the investments that we have made. We're investing more than $1 bil- lion into 40 new and replacement schools that will meet leeD gold standards. i think what would really be illustrative for all of us would be to go into a school today and ask one of our students: should we be investing this 82 cents in this tool?

Should we be meeting our climate…? l et me just tell you what a student from a bbotsford Middle School said yesterday about some of the climate change projects that are happening in her school. This is what she said — t ega Wall, age 11: "being involved with this project is the chance of a lifetime. i enjoy being able to be part and make a difference that will change the world forever." interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. R. Fleming: i'm glad the minister finished with the example of a bbotsford, because let me read a quote from the same

article from the a bbotsford school dis- trict's coordinator of school infrastructure, Mr. r ick Walker. h e says, in light of the budget situation that is

british c olumbia DebatesWednesday, o ctober 21, 2009 1367 this government's fault: "i f this project was to happen now" — the greening of the school computer labs pro- ject — "today we wouldn't have the money to do it." That's the reality for every other school. My question for the minister is: given the downloaded costs this year that school districts are struggling to pay for — MSP , a $50 million wage step that is unfunded for teachers, $110 million of cuts to facility grants…. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. R.

Fleming: Given all of that and given the fact that government owns this software — the Ministry of l abour and c itizens' Services developed it — can't they in this instance give school districts and kids….? This money will come out of the classroom for our kids. c an't they give them a break, help with the costs, give them the software for free that we own, help with the implementa- tion? Will she do that today? That's what school district leaders are asking for across b.c. Will the minister do it? interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. M.

MacDiarmid: i will again remind the mem- bers opposite about the record investment in education that we have made this year, an additional $84 million on a budget of $4.5 billion. When school districts, all of them, agreed with the climate action charter, they were aware that they would be using this tool. it was clear to them from the outset, as well…. When they signed on for this agreement, they also knew that they would be receiving rebates on their carbon tax. This will be, by 2011, over $7 million. We've also set aside $10 million which school districts can apply for to upgrade heating and cooling systems.

We're supporting school districts in a multitude of ways. [end of question period.] Reports from Committees N. Letnick: h on. Speaker, i have the honour to present a report of the Select Standing c ommittee on Parliamentary r eform, e thical c onduct, Standing orders and Private b ills. i move that the report be read and received. Motion approved. N. Letnick: h on. Speaker, i ask leave of the h ouse…. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. The member is making a report. c ontinue, Member. [1440] Law Clerk: o ctober 21, 2009 Mr.

Speaker: Y our Select Standing c ommittee on Parliamentary r eform, ethical c onduct, Standing o rders and Private bills begs leave to report as follows: (1) that the

preamble to bill Pr401, intituled Verigin Memor- ial Park a mendment a ct, 2009, has been proved, and the com- mittee recommends to the h ouse that the bill proceed to second reading; (2) that the

preamble to bill Pr402, intituled t rustee board of the c hurch of God, r ichmond Municipality, b.c . ( c orporate r estoration) a ct, 2009, has been proved, and the committee rec- ommends to the house that the bill proceed to second reading; (3) that the

preamble to bill Pr403, intituled Victoria Founda- tion a mendment a ct, 2009, has been proved, and the commit- tee recommends to the h ouse that the bill proceed to second reading. a ll of which is respectfully submitted, n orm l etnick, c hairman. Mr. Speaker: c ontinue, Member. N. Letnick: h on. Speaker, i ask leave of the h ouse to permit the moving of the motion to adopt the report. l eave granted. N. Letnick: i move that the report be adopted. Motion approved. bills Pr401, Pr402 and Pr403 ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the h ouse after today.

Orders of the Day Hon. M. de Jong: in c ommittee a, i call c ommittee of Supply — for the information of members, the esti- mates of the Ministry of h ealthy l iving and Sport. in this chamber, committee stage debate of bill 13, the Miscellaneous Statutes a mendment a ct. Committee of the Whole House bi ll 13 — M iScellaneou S Statute S aMenDMent act , 2009 The h ouse in c ommittee of the Whole (Section

b) on bill 13; l. r eid in the chair.

british c olumbia Debates1368 Wednesday, o ctober 21, 2009 The committee met at 2:44 p.m. on

section 1. L. Krog: With respect to both sections 1 and 2, i take it that these are exactly what they appear to be. We're simply adding "t reaty First n ation t axation a ct" so that it will extend to manufactured homes and there will be no issue around that. is there anything else the minister wishes to explain on that section? Hon. G. Abbott: The member has read it correctly. [1445] Sections 1 and 2 approved. on

section 3. L. Krog: Just to clarify.

Section 3, i take it, will apply — the exemption will apply — to manufactured homes that are not located on treaty first nations lands. it will, in fact, apply to manufactured homes located off of treaty taxation lands. is that correct? Hon. G. Abbott: i am advised, further to the mem- ber's question, that this provision will ensure that the property tax exemption that is currently available for manufactured homes owned by governments or municipalities and occupied by or on behalf of the governments or municipalities is also available to the taxing first nations. L.

Krog: What i understand the minister to say is that, in fact, these will be subject to taxation. Hon. G. Abbott: in fact, the act does not apply to manufactured homes owned by a taxing treaty first nation.

Section 3 approved. on

section 4. L. Krog: Just so the minister can perhaps explain this to me so that i understand…. i gather what this means is that if it's a tourist accommodation on lands covered by a treaty, in fact, that accommodation or improve- ment will receive the benefit of the reduction provided for under the act in terms of its assessment. Hon. G. Abbott: The member is correct. Sections 4 and 5 approved. on

section 6. L. Krog: Just to clarify. a s i understand it, this

section exempts — from treaty first nation taxation — improve- ments that are owned by the treaty taxing first nation or jointly with some other regional district or level of gov- ernment. i take it that this is to encourage cooperation between various levels of government. is that the intent of this

section — and the purpose? Hon. G. Abbott: The intent is that this provision will parallel the current exemption for municipalities under the c ommunity c harter.

Section 6 approved. on

section 7. L. Krog: a s we appear to have sorted out who is going to be responsible, i am delighted to have the Minister of a boriginal r elations continue in this matter. With reference to the c ollege and institute a ct, which this will regulate, i take it that this

section is in direct response to the british c olumbia Supreme c ourt deci- sion in Barbour v. the University of British Columbia. is that correct? [1450] Hon. M. Stilwell: i'll just take a moment, please, to introduce my staff and then ask you to repeat the ques- tion. This is t ony l oughran and Deb h ull. L. Krog: n ow that we've sorted out where the answers are going to come from…. With respect to

section 7 of this bill, i take it that this is in fact a response to the decision in Barbour v. The University of British Columbia, the Supreme c ourt deci- sion of Justice Goepel. is that correct? Hon. M. Stilwell: Prior to the court decision, the ministry believed that the post-secondary institutions had the necessary authority under their governing legis- lation to regulate parking on their property, including fines. The recent decision of barbour v. ubc simply highlighted the information to us that the act was not doing as it was intended. L.

Krog: i want to confirm that the minister is then admitting, in fact, that the government agrees with the decision of Justice Goepel in barbour, that it is correct in law, and that is why the amendment is before the house. Hon. M. Stilwell: n o, that is not what i'm saying. i'm saying that the decision simply highlighted that the law was not drafted sufficiently to meet the intention and desire.

british c olumbia DebatesWednesday, o ctober 21, 2009 1369 L. Krog: The Supreme c ourt decided that the col- leges didn't have the authority to impose fines and do the things that they were attempting to do in terms of the imposition of fines. n ow, either the court is right or the law is right — or wrong, so to speak. i need to hear from the minister. is the minister basically saying, then…? a re we doing this simply to clarify a decision? or is the government admitting that, in fact, when these fines were imposed the colleges were not in a lawful pos- ition to do so? Hon. M. Stilwell: o ur

interpretation is that the col- leges do have the authority to levy parking fines. L. Krog: i appreciate the minister's response that that may be the opinion. if that's the case, then i have to ask the minister: what are we doing in this chamber amend- ing the act if, in fact, the government has the lawful right to do so? The Supreme c ourt of british c olumbia happens to disagree with that opinion, so i guess i'm looking for an answer here. Who's right — the court or the government? [1455] Hon. M.

Stilwell: a s you know, under the governing legislation, b.c.'s colleges have the responsibility for man- aging all aspects of their operations. The amendments to the legislation simply affirm that the institutions do have the authority to regulate vehicle traffic and parking on their property. u ntil the recent court decision, it was understood that the institutions had this authority under the act. L.

Krog: Well, i appreciate the suggestion that it may have been understood, but clearly Justice Goepel has a different conclusion. a gain, i come back to the basic question. i don't know why it's so difficult for the min- ister to simply acknowledge that the reason this amend- ment is before this chamber is because the b.c. Supreme c ourt has said that under the existing legislation, the colleges don't have the power to impose parking fines.

That is what a court has decided. i'm asking the minister to acknowledge…. if she is right, and the institutions have the power to do it, why is this amendment necessary? it can't be both. it's got to be one or the other. Hon. M. Stilwell: The answer is that we are con- firming it so that, in fact, it will be understood, again, that they do have the authority to do that. L. Krog: i don't wish to appear to be difficult, but i would just simply like the minister to acknowledge what is obvious to everyone in this chamber and to the law- yers who pursued this class action lawsuit.

The Supreme c ourt of british c olumbia has said that the law does not allow colleges to impose a fine. That is why this legisla- tion is before the h ouse to amend — so that it can in fact legally impose a fine. Will the minister just acknowledge that? Hon. M. Stilwell: The goal of these amendments is to ensure that public post-secondary institutions have the full legislative authority to regulate parking and enforce parking regulations on their campuses. L.

Krog: i think the minister came as close as she could to acknowledging, without a full admission, that i am right — the court is right — in saying that the gov- ernment didn't have the authority to impose these fines. n ow, i appreciate that it's difficult for this government to acknowledge that it's wrong on any occasion. i under- stand that. but i'd just like the minister to answer this question simply. i'll try and put it as simply as i possibly can. The Supreme c ourt of british c olumbia has said that colleges don't have the power to impose these fines. This amendment is before this h ouse.

Will the minister simply acknowledge that under the present legislation, without this amendment, the colleges don't have the lawful authority to impose the fine? Hon. M. Stilwell: The proposed amendments are intended to bring clarity to the legislation for all public post-secondary institutions and reconfirm the govern- ment's intended policy in this area. L. Krog: Well, with the greatest respect to the minis- ter, i think Justice Goepel brought a great deal of clarity to this situation.

The issue is whether this government is prepared to stand up in this h ouse today and acknow- ledge that their legislation didn't authorize colleges to impose fines. [1500] Hon. M. Stilwell: i think we agree to disagree in that the proposed amendments are simply intended to clarify the legislation for all public post-secondary institutions and to reconfirm the government's intended policy in this area. L. Krog: Well, it's slowly inching out, slowly inching out — clarify policy, understanding, whatever. i guess the obvious question is…. This is still before the courts. Barbour v.

The University of British Columbia is still before the courts. it is still a live legal action. if the minister is so absolutely con- vinced that the government is right — that under the college act, these institutions have the power to impose fines — why is the government bringing in this legisla- tive change? Why isn't the government simply allowing the appeal to be heard and presumably, if the minister is

british c olumbia Debates1370 Wednesday, o ctober 21, 2009 so confident, the b.c. c ourt of a ppeal to agree with the government on this? Hon. M. Stilwell: Without the retroactive provisions, the institutions could possibly have to pay refunds from within their operating budgets and increase fees for stu- dents, negatively impacting programs and services for students and increasing the financial burden on students.

This unexpected expense for those institutions would also negatively affect institutions' financial position. it was felt that it was not reasonable or fair for stu- dents to bear the unreasonable burden of the expenses of people who chose not to obey the parking regulations. L. Krog: i appreciate that the case is about the money. i understand that. a ll i'm simply asking the minister to acknowledge is what is patently obvious. instead of let- ting a court decide this…. a court has made a decision, the government has appealed, and the matter is still a live action before the court.

Mr. barbour, as a representative plaintiff, has entitlement to proceed with his case. The effect of this legislation, and we will get to the appropriate sections…. The effect of the change in this provision is to make lawful that which a court has decided is not lawful. isn't that, in fact, simply what we're talking about? Hon. M. Stilwell: a spects of the b.c. Supreme c ourt decision in Barbour v. The University of British Columbia are in the process of being appealed, and the case is before the courts.

So i will not comment specifically on that case. h owever, in general terms, it means that fines and penalties which were appropriately imposed on institu- tions' property at any time in the past are valid. it also means that despite the court decision, institutions will not be required to refund previously paid parking fines. L. Krog: i sense the presence of the ghost of the late, lamented a ttorney General, a man for whom i had great respect, who might have given me a very straight answer on this question.

"it's now before the courts." We've just spent — what? — ten or 15 minutes discussing the very court case which i enunciated, i think, in the second or third of my questions here today. The minister's response is, "i t's before the courts," so we're not going to get an answer. i'm glad the minister has acknowledged that the matter is before the courts. That's certainly a first step in this. but what i'd like the minister to acknowledge is that a court has said that the law means, presently interpreted by a court — the institution in our society to which we look for direction with respect to our laws….

The court has said: "Y ou've illegally collected fines. Y ou have illegally collected fines in our post-secondary system." This amendment, the effect of it, is to legalize the collection of fines by colleges. i don't want to spend the whole day here on this question. i'd like the minister to just acknow- ledge that what the government is doing by bringing in this amendment is acknowledging that, to date, these institutions have been illegally collecting fines. Hon. M. Stilwell: The answer is no, that is not our position. [1505] L.

Krog: Well, if that's not the government's position — and i think there are only two positions you can take in this matter — i'd like the minister to stand up and tell me now: what exactly is the government's position on the decision in Barbour v. The University of British Columbia? is the court wrong? Hon. M. Stilwell: t o reiterate, as it is before the courts, i won't comment on that specific case. L. Krog: Well, this isn't Salome and the seven veils but when you've pulled the veils off, the rules say you don't get to put them back on again.

That's a fairly well-rec- ognized principle in our system. if there's any privilege to be honoured here, or positioned by this government that it's before the courts, that was waived several ques- tions ago. a gain, my question to the minister is: will she simply acknowledge that the b.c. Supreme c ourt has said that the collection of fines was illegal and that that is the pur- pose of having this amendment before this h ouse? The Chair: i would caution the member on the repeti- tive nature of this debate. Hon. M.

Stilwell: a lthough the questions do feel repetitive, i actually forget what it was. c ould you ask it again? L. Krog: h on. c hair, i'm sure the minister isn't show- ing contempt for your suggestion that my questions are repetitive by asking me to repeat the question. i'm sure that wasn't the minister's intention. it's a fairly simple proposition. The b.c. Supreme c ourt has said that under the existing legislation, you cannot collect fines.

We have an amendment before this h ouse that authorizes the collection of fines. n ow, either the court is right, and the government can't — and that's why we're here — or if the court is wrong, and the gov- ernment is right, why don't they let the appeal proceed? Hon. M. Stilwell: While we disagree with the court's decision, we do respect it. but to clear up doubt and ambi- guity around these circumstances, we had two choices. one was to appeal; one was to bring the amendment for- ward. We chose the latter.

british c olumbia DebatesWednesday, o ctober 21, 2009 1371 L. Krog: i want to thank the minister for the clar - ity of her response at long last, and i appreciate it. So the minister has essentially acknowledged that by this amendment, we are circumventing a decision of the b.c. Supreme c ourt. Hon. M. Stilwell: n o, what we're doing is attempting to clarify the legislation. L. Krog: Well, i appreciate that we're on

section 7, but we can't pretend that we don't know what's in the fol- lowing sections. it's pretty clear that this legislation will be retroactive. it won't be just clarifying. it will be cover- ing the fiscal posteriors, if you will, of various college institutions. Perhaps the minister could answer, with respect to this legislation: how much money are we talking about at the college level in terms of fines that would potentially other- wise have to be returned pursuant to the class action? [1510] Hon. M.

Stilwell: i don't have the information break- ing down colleges or universities, but the aggregate total for all post-secondary institutions is approximately $10 million. L. Krog: So we could effectively characterize these amendments as the $10 million question, then. What this is really about is ensuring that a successful class action will, in fact, not be allowed to proceed. Perhaps the minister didn't get the intent of my ques- tion. i'm asking the minister….

The real intent of this amendment is to ensure that the legitimate rights of liti- gants who have been successful so far will in fact be, if you will, voided by virtue of this legislation? Hon. M. Stilwell: a gain, our intent was to clarify the legislation and ensure that taxpayers and students were not on the hook for parking fines of other people at post- secondary institutions that we believed and intended to have the authority to charge parking fines. L.

Krog: Just so i'm clear. i think i heard the minister acknowledge, frankly, that we're here because govern- ment didn't pass legislation that appropriately created the authority to impose fines. Hon. M. Stilwell: a gain, the intention of the legis- lation was to give the post-secondary institutions that we've been discussing the authority to charge those fines. it was our intention and our understanding that they could, and this simply clarifies that indeed they do. L. Krog: Well, it does a little more than clarify.

What it does is authorize moneys that have been declared by the Supreme c ourt to have been illegally collected to in fact be retained by the institutions that illegally collected them. isn't that, in fact, what's happening here? Hon. M. Stilwell: Making amendments to the legis- lation retroactively will ensure that current and future users will not be negatively impacted by institutions having to pay back fines that were collected in the past.

Government's view is that the post-secondary institu- tions always had the authority over these matters, the power to make decisions about what happens on their campuses to ensure fair and equitable treatment of all students and staff and visitors to the institution. These amendments clarify authority over matters such as parking regulation, which the government intended them to have. L.

Krog: Well, with great respect, i understand it may have been the government's intention. but the reality is that institutions have illegally collected money and are now asking the l egislature to approve the picking of the pockets of the students and others who paid fines that they weren't lawfully required to pay. isn't that, in fact, what's happening here? [1515] Hon. M.

Stilwell: a t the risk of reiterating ad nauseam, until the recent court ruling, the ministry and institutions believed the existing legislation was clear that it gave uni- versities full authority to collect the fines and penalties as part of their regular enforcement activities. a gain, if the amendments were not made retroactive, it is estimated that this would cost our institutions over $10 million for refunds — money that would have to come from import- ant programs and services provided to students. L.

Krog: What the minister is admitting is that we're going to take the $10 million from the students who paid fines that they didn't legally have to pay. That's essentially the choice we're making. Hon. M. Stilwell: a gain, no, that's not the case. What we're doing is clarifying that the intent was that the universities and colleges would have legal authority to enforce parking fines.

Section 7 approved. on

section 8. L. Krog: Just to confirm, i take it that what this means is that you can't be imprisoned. is that the import of the addition of the amendment in

section 8? Hon. M. Stilwell: This amendment is made because it is unnecessary for institutions to rely on the offence a ct for enforcement of rules and bylaws made under the

british c olumbia Debates1372 Wednesday, o ctober 21, 2009 authority of the act. Proceedings relating to enforcement of such rules and bylaws are administrative in nature rather than penal. This provision is included in order to align the c ollege and institute a ct with the u niversity a ct provision, to similar effect. L. Krog: What i think the hon. minister is saying is that we can illegally take your money with retroactive legislation, but in future we won't be able to imprison you if you park too long. is that the effect of this? Hon. M. Stilwell: The answer is no.

This never gave power to imprison someone, and we never thought that it did or intended that it would. L. Krog: is this another

section where we're clarify- ing, so that we're really clear now, that we won't be able to imprison anyone? is that the intent of this

section — that we're again covering up for a previous error? Hon. M. Stilwell: n o. L. Krog: i wonder if the minister could just explain: why is this amendment before the h ouse? What exactly does it do? [1520] Hon. M. Stilwell: This provision adds a

section within the c ollege and institute a ct to exclude the applica- tion of

section 5 of the offence a ct to the c ollege and institute a ct.

Section 5 of the offence a ct is the gen- eral provision specifying that a person who contravenes an enactment, whether by committing a forbidden act or omitting to do a required act, commits an offence against the enactment. L. Krog: is the minister's answer, then, telling me…? a nd i'm very obtuse today, i suspect…. interjection. L. Krog: Just today, one of my colleagues unkindly suggested. The offence a ct won't apply. We get to fine you, but the offence a ct doesn't apply to anything you do if you breach that. This is to clarify the law. is that correct? Hon. M.

Stilwell: The addition is to clarify that sec- tion 5 of the offence a ct does not apply. L. Krog: Just so i'm clear, what we're really saying is that there may have been an implication in the existing legislation that the offence a ct applied under the college act, and now we're clarifying that in fact it doesn't apply, that you're not subject to imprisonment for breach. Hon. M. Stilwell: in

section 8 we are clarifying both the original and current intent of the act and also making it uniform across all four acts, really, that we're amending. Sections 8 and 9 approved. on

section 10. L. Krog: So just to confirm, this

section is to ensure that Thompson r ivers u niversity has the same capacity as a nat- ural person of full capacity. in other words, they can buy, sell, be born through statute, die through statute, whatever — the same kind of principle as applies with respect to corporations in british columbia now. Do we give them a heart and a head, not necessarily a conscience? Hon. M. Stilwell: Thompson r ivers u niversity always had the powers of a natural person, and we are simply clarifying the language again.

Section 10 approved. on

section 11. L. Krog: Just to confirm, again, it's the same provision with respect to 9 as in 11. Hon. M. Stilwell: Y es, it's the same issue.

Section 11 approved. on

section 12. [1525] L. Krog: This is the

section that again arises out of the Barbour v. The University of British Columbia decision, which gives the university clarified powers to in fact impose requirements in relation to parking and prop- erty, etc.; to remove, immobilize or impound vehicles — in other words, to do all of those things which, in the minister's earlier answer, she said everyone thought the institution had an ability to do but that the Supreme c ourt of british c olumbia said the university didn't have the power to do. So this is in fact designed to have the same impact, if you will, as

section 7. Hon. M. Stilwell: Y es. L. Krog: Just to confirm again. This will protect the u niversity of british c olumbia from the problems related to the return of fines if the barbour case either stood or was successful at the b.c. c ourt of a ppeal or the Supreme c ourt of c anada, should it go that far. [c. t revena in the chair.]

british c olumbia DebatesWednesday, o ctober 21, 2009 1373 Hon. M. Stilwell: indeed. a gain, as in the previously discussed sections, this clarifies that the university has the authority outlined more specifically in

section 12. S. Simpson: one of the critical issues around this sec- tion, as it relates to the court case that was the motiva- tion for much of this, clearly is the issue around whether it's appropriate for the government to be interfering in what is an ongoing court case. The minister will have received a letter dated o ctober 8 from Sharon Matthews, who is counsel for Mr. barbour and for a number of the class action litigants. i'd just read a brief

section of this letter, where Ms. Matthews says: "a pparently, notwithstanding your government's consistently stated opinion that it will not comment on or interfere with matters that are before the court, it has chosen to not only interfere with this matter but to pass legislation which, if valid, eradicates the rights of the class members as found by the trial judge which are the subject of the current appeal." n ow, clearly the legislation hasn't passed yet, but should it pass, that will be the effect of this. My ques- tion to the minister is: does the minister agree with Ms.

Matthews that that is essentially the effect of what this bill does, and if not, could she explain why not? [1530] Hon. M. Stilwell: a gain, we disagree with Ms. Matthews. While we respect the courts obviously, to clear up the doubt and ambiguity we had two choices. We could appeal, which may or may not have cleared up the ambiguity around the powers of the university, or we could amend the acts, as we have chosen to do. S.

Simpson: This government has on a number of occasions talked about the sanctity of the courts and has used that as a shield to protect itself from transparency on any number of issues that we could talk about here for hours and hours. but the question here is this par - ticular instance. My question to the minister is this.

When there is an appeal in process now, why has the government chosen to introduce this legislation now rather than let the court system exhaust itself — let the appeal proceed and let a judgment be made on the appeal — and at that point let the l egislature and let the government decide whether it has to take some action? What is the rationale or the reason for breaching the court process, for interfering in the british c olumbia court process by doing this when there is in fact an appeal in process? Hon. M.

Stilwell: o nce again i have to reiterate that we had two choices we could have pursued to clear up the doubt and ambiguity, which we felt was important so that students would not face the negative impact on programs and their costs. We chose the path of amendment. S. Simpson: c ould the minister explain why it took what is an extraordinary decision, i would say, to inter - fere in the court process in the middle of that process when an appeal is moving forward?

That's an extra- ordinary decision for this cabinet and this government to take. c ould the minister explain in some detail? it would be good to know what the logic is or if there's any rationale to this — what the logic is for not allowing the appeal to proceed, to be heard, with a judgment — which would not, as i understand it, at all have excluded the govern- ment from taking another extraordinary path of retro- activity afterwards. What is the minister's decision? Hon. M.

Stilwell: The government concluded that the proposed amendments are in the best interests of british c olumbians, helping to ensure that students' fees and public investment in post-secondary education are directed to where they benefit students. S. Simpson: The decision to do this…. c learly, the minister had discussions with ubc. i mean, we've heard about all the people that were hired as lobbyists by these institutions to come and lobby the government for this extraordinary legislation. My question to the minister is this.

Did the minister take the time even once to sit down and talk to the people who are engaged in this class action, to understand their side of this issue and, in fact, to see whether they could put a balanced solution in place rather than this decision? Hon. M. Stilwell: i did not meet with the plaintiffs. S. Simpson: Maybe the minister could explain why she believes it's okay to meet with one side in this issue, the side that lost in the court, yet it's not okay to meet with the other side and try to find some kind of balanced resolu- tion to this rather than ramming this legislation through. [1535] Hon. M.

Stilwell: The issue was brought to my atten- tion by the r esearch u niversities c ouncil. a s previously stated, it was the full intent and understanding of the gov- ernment that the universities had the power to enforce parking fines. For that reason, the government concluded that the proposed amendments were in the best interests of british c olumbians, helping to ensure that students' fees and public investment in post-secondary education are directed to where they benefit the students. S. Simpson: That may be the understanding, but clearly it's not the law as far as the courts are concerned.

The courts made a pretty clear decision in this. We would have seen what would happen under appeal, except for this extraordinary intervention and interference by this minister and government.

british c olumbia Debates1374 Wednesday, o ctober 21, 2009 This is a government that has purported to have respect for the law and the courts. This is hardly respect for the courts and the process of the courts — to inter - vene in this way in the middle of a proceeding. Just one last comment in relation to this. a gain, just a brief excerpt from the o ctober 8 letter from Ms. Matthews, the counsel for Mr. barbour and the litigants. in this, Ms. Matthews says: "We urge you to give a sober second thought to the retroactive nature of this legisla- tion prior to it being passed.

The b.c . government needs to respect the judiciary and show that respect. it also needs to treat all constituents with an even hand. The class members are your constituents. Please meet with them and hear their views." before this legislation passes, will the minister meet with those members of that class action group? Hon. M. Stilwell: Meeting with the plaintiffs is not necessary. The government has clearly concluded that the proposed amendments are in the best interests of british c olumbians. S.

Simpson: i understand that consultation and talk- ing to anybody outside the closed cabinet room is a unique thing for this minister and this government. it doesn't happen. Why on earth does this minister think that this group of people who convinced a judge, through their case, of the merit of their argument and won that case…? Why on earth does this minister think that she doesn't have any obligation to talk to those people when, in fact, she's ripping up a court decision here? it's a remarkable decision — certainly not the decision to be made by a thoughtful legislator.

Will the minister commit to meet with these people? [1540] Hon. M. Stilwell: i've answered the question. S. Simpson: This is not necessarily a question, because questions aren't something that get answered on this — clearly. We've seen that. a ll i would say is that the minister certainly has disappointed these people, has disappointed any fair- minded person in this province, has shown a bias that is remarkable and has in fact disappointed due process. i really, really would urge the minister to give this some of that sober second thought that's talked about in this letter.

What the minister is doing is more than dis- appointing. it's really shameful for a democratic process, and she should consider that. L. Krog: it is a fundamental principle of natural justice that you hear both sides in any matter, and the minister in this government sits in a unique position in this. This was a decision of the courts involving private plaintiffs and, arguably, private defendants.

What this legislation also does is clarify that colleges and universities have the capacities of a natural person, and with the capacity of a natural person come the responsibilities that apply to that as well. if you apply that principle fairly, the minister here through this legislation is going to override a decision of our judicial system. o ur independent, independently appointed judi- ciary is going to be overridden by this legislation. it is clear, unless the minister wishes to deny it today, that this government has met with representatives of our post-secondary education institutions and has come to the conclusion that they should be supported in their losing court battle without ever, it appears, having taken a minute of her time or this government's time to meet with the plaintiffs who happen to represent thousands of british c olumbians who are natural persons at law.

My question to the minister is simply this. Why can she not take time out of her schedule, as she's clearly met with representatives of the post-secondary educational institutions of this province, to meet with the represent- atives of the plaintiffs in this action? Hon. M. Stilwell: a gain, it relates back to the choice that the government had between appealing to clear up the doubt and ambiguity around this issue, which may or may not have accomplished that, and amending the acts, which we chose to do. L. Krog: Well, i'm just not sure i understand the min- ister.

She said the government had the choice of appeal- ing. i thought it was the post-secondary educational institutions which were under fire here. They are natural persons at law. They are independent, presumably, of government, apart from the fact that their boards are appointed by this government. it wasn't the government's "decision" to appeal this legis- lation. This government wasn't a party to the legal pro- ceeding in Barbour v.

The University of British Columbia, to my knowledge. if i'm wrong, the minister, i'm sure, will correct me with the assistance of her staff. a gain, my question is: why, then, didn't the minister on behalf of the government, who's not a party to this proceeding, take the time to meet with constituents who have, according to the courts, equal rights and indeed superior rights when it comes to the matter of being fined for parking on a university campus? Hon. M.

Stilwell: The issue was brought to our atten- tion by the r esearch u niversities c ouncil. a s previously stated, it was our understanding and the full intent of the act that the institutions in question have the powers to enforce parking regulations. L. Krog: t o confirm, is it this government's prac- tice in future court cases, then, that they will step in on

british c olumbia DebatesWednesday, o ctober 21, 2009 1375 behalf of the institutional defendants but not meet with the individual plaintiffs in actions? is this a government policy, and if so, could the minister articulate it for this h ouse? Hon. M. Stilwell: i won't speculate about future cases. [1545]

Section 12 approved. on

section 13. L. Krog: i just want to confirm that this

section relates back to

section 10. it relates back to the clarification, if you will, that a university has "the power and capacity of a natural person of full capacity." i take it there is some concern about the existing legislation, and that's the sole reason this is being passed. or is there some other pur - pose or intent behind this particular amendment? Hon. M. Stilwell: The purpose is simply to clarify the intent of the act as it is.

Section 13 approved. on

section 14. L. Krog: We have just approved a

section that pro- vides that a university has the capacity of a person of full capacity. n ow we're amending a

section to state: "For the purposes of carrying out and advancing, directly or indirectly, the purposes of a university, a university may acquire, by gift, purchase or any other manner, and hold, property of any kind." i guess i need an explanation as to why we have to do that. if a university has the capacity of a natural person, then it goes without saying that they've got the ability to receive, acquire by gift or purchase or hold property of any kind. i mean, that's an absolute given. So what's the point of this section? is there something i'm missing, or is there some other intent to this? Hon. M.

Stilwell: My understanding is that this clari- fies the public law powers under the u niversity a ct versus their private law powers. Sections 14 and 15 approved. on

section 16. L. Krog: My reading of this section, which is fairly lengthy, is that the government is asking the l egislature now to retroactively approve the collection and the retention of all the moneys that the post-secondary insti- tutions of this province have collected by way of fines at a time when they weren't authorized by law to do so. Hon. M.

Stilwell: t o reiterate, the intent was to clarify that, indeed, the colleges and universities have the authority to enforce parking fines. [1550] The government concluded that the proposed amend- ments are in the best interests of british c olumbians, helping to ensure student fees and public investment in post-secondary education are directed to where they benefit the students. L. Krog: a s delighted as i am to hear the minister read from her script again, it doesn't quite answer the question which is obviously raised in

section 16(2), where it says: "Despite any pre-amendment provision and despite any decision of a court to the contrary made before or after the coming into force of this section." That indicates to me that this is not something about clarification. This is a retroactive change of the law. The minister can try and maintain the pretence in this h ouse that it isn't, but in fact this is an acknowledgment by that very provision in

section 16(2) that despite a decision of the court, we're retroactively allowing the retention of these fines. i would ask the minister to acknowledge once and for all — another opportunity to simply say — that this gov- ernment's legislation, the existing statute, didn't author- ize the collection of these fines, and this amendment, in particular

section 16(2), directly acknowledges that a court has said it was illegal to do so, and we are now making it legal to retain those moneys. Hon. M. Stilwell: Making the amendments to the legislation retroactively will ensure that current and future users will not be negatively impacted by institu- tions having to pay back fines that were collected in the past. L.

Krog: i don't know if the minister has ever heard these words quoted to her, but this was the l eader of the official o pposition at one point. h e said: "i t is critical that we maintain everyone's rights in this province, that we not act retroactively. r etroactivity sends all of the wrong messages to everyone that has been involved." That was the then l eader of the official o pposition, now the Premier and First Minister of the province of british c olumbia, the hon. minister's leader and Premier. So i'm just wondering: does she agree that it's wrong to pass retroactive legislation? Hon. M.

Stilwell: a gain, in this instance we had two choices to clarify the ambiguity surrounding this issue. We chose the amendment. L. Krog: i don't think there was anything terribly ambiguous about the Supreme c ourt of british c olumbia's decision. it was pretty straightforward. There wasn't the

british c olumbia Debates1376 Wednesday, o ctober 21, 2009 authority and power to do this. The court said no, and now the government is before the l egislature asking for passage of legislation that will retroactively make legal the retention of moneys that were illegally collected.

The former a ttorney General said so elegantly at one point that "statute after statute, order-in-council after order- in-council, fee after fee and regulation after regulation for over a quarter of a century will be retroactively repaired, rewritten, rehabilitated, restored, revitalized, given new life. it will happen in a flash. a nd 26 years of government, were it to collect revenue from british columbians — illegally, i should say — will be made whole." That was the hon. Geoff Plant. h e was the former a ttorney General.

That's what he said when he was in opposition. n ow we're wearing the government's hat, and suddenly the rules have changed. i'm asking once again for the minister to acknow- ledge that, in fact, a court has said that what the post- secondary institutions in this province did by collecting those fines was illegal, and we are being asked to retro- actively repair that mistake so the post-secondary insti- tutions can retain funds illegally collected. Hon. M.

Stilwell: The government's view was that the public post-secondary institutions always had the authority over these matters, the power to make deci- sions about what happens on their campuses and to ensure fair and equitable treatment of all students, staff and visitors to the institution. These amendments clarify authority over matters such as parking regulation, which the government intended them to have.

Section 16 approved. [1555] interjection. L. Krog: i'm so flattered. on

section 17. L. Krog: Just so i can clarify for my own purposes, i take it that these amendments are necessary under

section 17 because the government hasn't yet pro- claimed the a dult Guardianship and Planning Statutes a mendment a ct. Hon. M. de Jong: Thanks to the member for the ques- tion. First, let me introduce a ndrea buzbuzian to assist us through these sections. That's partially correct, but — as the member, i think, probably realizes from reading beyond — the original act, which has not been proclaimed, deals with, broadly speaking, two issues.

Whilst the government is not in a position to proceed with proclamation of one com- ponent of that relating to adult guardianship — and i won't be coy about why; it is a fiscal situation associated with the cost of moving forward — there is great interest on the government's part and on the part of people in the community to give effect to the planning-directives component of that bill.

So virtually all of what's contained here is designed to delink those two components of the act, allow proc- lamation for the second part dealing with planning instruments, planning directives, and maintain or retain the old committeeship provisions from the Patients Property a ct. L.

Krog: t o the minister: he mentioned fiscal impli- cations and problems, and i wonder if he could give me some idea of what he's talking about and what the range of issues are that are preventing this, because the legal community has been waiting for this for a very long time. a rguably, they and potential clients and people who will benefit from the passage of the statute are in limbo as well. i would like to hear from the minister: what exactly are the problems that are holding that up? Hon. M. de Jong: it's not just th

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H1021pm-03
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H1021pm 03
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	3ca47e78b76200ffcfa07fbd7c3d0c104269be70

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