Volume 1 PROVINCE OF NEWFOUNDLAND THIRTY-SIXTH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND 1st Session VERBATIM REPORT Tuesday, May 2, 1972 SPEAKER: THE HONOURABLE JAMES M. RUSSELL Numb er 9

-,.4, ,. May _.J_, 1972 The House met at 3:00 P.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. Tape 204 .IM - J MR. SPEAKER: Order! It is a great pleasure indeed for me to welcome to the honourable House today the Mayor of Bonavista, His Worshin Mr. Fitzgerald, and a group of approximately sixty-five students of p.rades seven and eight from St. Clare's Central High, Carbonear with their teachers Margaret Horiaritv and Patrica lfalsh. I trust that your visit here is most informative and that you will learn much durinp, your visit. MR_'..._E_:_~ ~OBERTS __ (LEADER OF THE_ OPP OS IT ION)_: Mr.

Sneaker, before we po into the business as set forth on the Order "Paner, rniiy I raise a point of privilere with reference to a statement in todays iss11e of the Eveninf Telepram. ·• The same point I !!tay say could erpmlly wel 1 be made with reference to the 'Daily News•'• or any of the t_hree radio media. The point rises, Sir, with reference to yesterday's _proceedings when the honourable member for St. John's E;cist ask leave to revert -~o the motion so that his colle;;.g1!", the Minister of Finance, could introduce a bill.

"low, Sir. our procedure in this House is exactly the same, J think, as any procedure in any parliamentary system in the world namely that twenty-four hours must elapse between each ·stage of a bill, nalT'ely notice of the motion to introduce it and then first readinp,, second reading, the committee stage and third reading.

Yesterday the honourable gentleman ask if we would revert to pive leave to introduce the bill, to give notice of it, this was an arranp,ement that had been made between the two House Leaders and it was conditional and both sides agreed on this with no ouestion upon the legislation beinf available to us. The leirislation was not available through no fault, I hasten to add, of the minister and so the matter was in abeyance until the legislation became 549

?-~ May '1., 1972 \ffi.: _Rpll_E_R_T,_:'> • available at which stage the arrangement went ahel'!d. The Eveninl' Telegram" ,Sir. seemed to have missed the point ccMnletelv. Thev say in their renort on pape one that Finance Minister, names the gentleman who is the Minister of Finance, wanted tn intro<lnce thf' lei;,isl;ition but that l obiected. Now, Sir. that is not correct. Th~ honourable gentleman asked leave of the Fouse or h .is colleague in his stead ask leave of the Pause to revert to the point on the order paoer where notice of motion can 1:,e given.

We declined at that time but subsequently when the arrangement was honoured we rlirl a.~ree ,mrl the honourable Minister of Fincmce did ~ive notir.e an<l the hill appears today on the order parier as motion number seven. T :issume the House Leader will call it for first r<>Rding. I do not know. It is his pr'erop;ative to call the business of the House. Mr. Sneake .r. the ooint is that we did not obiect vesterday to anvthinp beinp brought in. We merely said t;hat we would not give unanimous consent until the arrangement that had been made was rarried out.

The l?OVernment did carry out the arrangment whereupon JM - 2 we carried out onr half of the hargain and did give unanimous consent. It is a minor -point but :ifter all both newspapers had manag€'rl to P.et it incorrectlv all three radio and television stations managed to get it incorre c tly anc! I think perhaps we could at least insert thP correct version in the records of the House. 550

May 2, 1972 Tape 205 PK - 1 HR. ROBERTS: I would like to tahle it, Mr. Speaker. if I can find one of the papes. They owe the member for Rell Island five cents for one-half of the "Telegram'' now., but we got thP. other half. PETITIONS ~!R. W. N . ROWE : Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to present to the honourable House a petition which I have received from the res:ldents of Seal Cove in my District of White Bay South. The petition, Sir, is signed by 235 people, residents of Seal Cove1 which is the vast majority of the voters jn that community.

The prayer of the petition, Sir, is that we the undersigned res ·i dent ,, of the community of Seal Cove in White Bay ~outh formally protest the deplorable condition of the highway connectinp. this community, Highway 72. that is the road leading from Seal C:ove to the llaie Verte Highway. Sir. they go on to mention that there are several treacherous hills and very little surfacing on the roads at the present time.

And it is to the end that this problem can be rem~died that thfy have sir ned this petition in the hope that the Department of Highways will immediately undertake a study of alternate routes around existing dangerous hills and the elimination of numerous curves to the fullest possihle de~ree and in general to consider the full and complet~ rebuilding that is most urgently required. Sir, I support the prayer of this petition fully and wholeheartedly. I doubt if there is a man in Seal Cove who is not working today either in Advocate Mines or Rambler J,fines or in the woods or in the fishery.

A great number of the workers in the community go back and forth from Seal Cove to Baie Verte in order to go to their place of employment. Also, Sir, of course there are a nl,1lllber of buses on the road leading from Seal Cove and from Wild Cove to Baie Verte with school children going to school. 551

}lay 7-. 1972 Tape 205 PK - 2 ~- ROWE, H. N. I hope, Sir, that the Minister of Highways or the Acting Minister of Highways can ~ive the fullest possible consideration to the petition of the people from Seal Cove, which I support and which certainly I hope every member of this House supports. I move . Sir, that the petition be accepted by this honourable House and referred to the department to which it relate .s. On motion pe-tition recei.ved. 'fR • P • S • THON~ , --------- l,!r. Speaker, I heg leave to present a petition on behalf of the residents of Traytm-m.

The prayer of this petition is that the Town of Trayto~m be given a water and sewerage system. Mr. Speaker, I wholeheartedly support this petition and I note that the present administration have fought two elections and one of their planks has been that they would take the services of government to the people. I sincerely hope and trust, Mr. Speaker, that this administration wjll take this service to the people of Traytown hy givi.ng them a water and sewerage system. !fr. Speaker, I ask that this petition he placed on the table of this House and referred to the department to which it relates. i1'R .•• 1.

HARVEY: Yes, I would like to support that petition P,resented by my colleague and the honour~ble member for Bonavista North. The prayer of the petition being that Traytown receive a water and sewerage system. I. represent, as I have said before, communities on the Labrador Coast anc'l not one community there has a water and sewerage system. I can certainly understand - the people wanting that type of system in their community,and so will I, in the near future. Thank you. 552

May 2, 1972 Tape No. 206 NC - 1 MR. W00DWARD_ (M.): Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to-present a petition on behalf of the residents of Nain. The prayer of this petition, Mr. Speaker, is to have the present forty watt radio transmitter at Hopedale increased to one thousand watt transmitter and that an earth station be installed in that community to receive live television from the proposed CBC satallite. Mr. Speaker, in my address to this House, I mentioned the problems with television and radio in Labrador North and this petition, by the way, is signed on behalf of 270 voters of that community.

I also mention the fact that Nain is the most isolated and most northerly community in this province, Sir. They have not yet had the facilities of radio and television. I mentioned the fact that they were getting Moscow radio but then again it is hopeful now that they should receive some CBC coverage, some. local news from the province and.Sir, 1 support this petition and I trust that the new government ••. I understand that this is a federal responsibility.

It is the responsibility of the 9overnment of Canada but I trust that our new department that the government has set up, that is the Department of Inter-Governmental Affairs will take this problem to the federal authorities and see that something is done about television and radio in those connnunities. I support this petition, Sir, and I ask that this petition be placed on the table of the House and referred to the Department to which it relates. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, when I was Minister of Social Services and Rehabilitation, I had quite a bit of contact with the people, the native population of Northern Labrador and Nain, and I think it is fair to say, Mr. Speaker, that the citizens of Northern Labrador are a very reasonable people who do not really make too many demands upon government and only when it is absolutely necessary. One of the big problems in Northern Labrador, Mr. Speaker, and as members of this hon, House have probably been hearing over the past number of years, is the lack of communication,and the prayer of this petition,in 553

May 2, 1972 Tape No. 206 NC - 2 MR. NEARY: my opinion, makes a lot of common sense. I sincerely hope, Mr. Speaker, that the Minister of Inter-Governmental Affairs, who has not been in this House for several days now, will do everything in his .power to keep the pressure on the federal minister responsibility for communications until this matter is settled to the satisfaction of the residents of Nain. Incident.ally I hope that the hon. r11inister>who has not been in his seat for several days, does not think that the people of St. Mary's gave him a scholarship to go back and forth to England.

I hope that he will be able to find the time ••• MR, HICKEY: Mr, Speaker, this is not in keeping with the presentation of a petition, MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I hope 'that the hon. minister will find time to see •• , AN HON. MEMBER: Point of order, }ffi . SPEAKER: Point of order is well taken. MR. ROUSSEAU (J,G.): Mr. Speaker, I rise to support the petition of my hon, friend from Labrador North.

I think it is appropriate that the first petition I support in this House would be on behalf of Labrador, I think that the hon. member had suggested quite correctly that this is a federal matter and it is certainly of concern to all the people of Labrador, We have high hopes of the satellite being launched in 1973 and for live television to be available to quite a portion of Labrador and we hapc to the small communities as well as to the large communities.

I would respectfully suggest that in future the hon. member who might support you,from Bell Island, would remember the old saying, " God made man with two ears, two eys and one tongue to .'the end that he may see and hear more than he says. Thank you. 554

May 2, 1972 Tape no. 207 Page I - mrw MR. E.W. WINSOR: As the previous member for Labrador North for a great number of years, l can appreciate the concern of the people of Nain and other communities in Northern Labrador, the concern about communications. They are becoming more educated today than thev were a few years ago. Thev are anxious to know what is going on in the outside world. ln the light of that, the locale of Nain is not an easy place to get signals in or out of. It is one of the few places along the Labrador Coast where it is very difficult to get signals in.

Now I speak from experience because I have often sat in my wireless cabin in the harbour of Nain and not get a si1mal out,

whereas five miles to the north or five miles to the south it is quite easy to receive and transmit signals which are very di~tin'guishah1i!, Bue, Mr Soeaker, l do agree with the hon. member that the only way to get television and good radio reception there is to increase the power. I was naturally thinking of the increased power at Goose Bay rather than at Hopedale because Hopedale is down in the valley there, surrounded by very high hills,and il is difficult to get the signal out

whereas at Goose liay it has a more direct position. 1 may add too, Mr. Speaker, that during my term as member for the district, on two or three occasions l had brought this matter directl)• to the management of the CBC and I was informed that this would be impossible until, as the hon. member for Labrador West said, the satellite getting in orbit in 1973 They asked themselves the question: ls it worth the extra money to do that when the telestar would be operating around the globe1 lf that is the case, then, of course, l think perhaps they may be right.

Nevertheless, l think a temporary increase in power at Hopedale or Goose Bay could provide those unfortunate people up there. Mr. Speaker, the evenings during the winter months are very long and can become very boring, as we all know the pleasure one gets out of television and radio; I think the least they can do is to increase the power at Hopedale to provide the service to the people 555

May 2, 1972 Mr. Winsor of Nain and David's Inlet as well. in supportin~ the petition. Tape no. 207 Page 2 Mr. Speaker , l have much pleasure HR. J.B. HARVEY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to support t he petition also presented bv my colleaitt1e and the hon. member for Labrador North. 1 had the pleasure in 1970 of being a part of a team that did a communication study on the Labrador Coast which took in Hopedale , Makkovik, Nain and Labrador South, the area which l represent .

One of the most common beefs of the people on the coast was the fact that they could not receive television when the rest of Canada and indeed most of Newfoundland did. We also took a video taped portion of the people who had talked to us about the communication problem to the then Minister of Communications, Hr. Ed c Kierans, in Ottawa, and he assured us that bv this year or certainly in 19 73 556

May 2, 1972. Tape 208 Page 1. this nroblem would be alleviated by a laihch.:mg of a satellite, I certainl:;-· sunnort the petition prei::ented by mv colle,.gue -<' m Labrador North, from the residents of Hopedale, on receiving that TV receiver when that satellite does indeed go up. HR.PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to present a petjtion from the residents of Shoe Co.ve, in the District of Green Bay. I thi.nk Shoe rove is the closest to the district that my honourahle friend on the other side of the House represents, Vhite Bav South.

Last vear Shoe Cove received a grant of monev from the Government to begin a water supply. Funds were not enough to complete that supply so the prayer of the petition is that more funds he made available this year to comnlete the water supplv. Of course basjc services like this>Mr. Speaker, must be supported bv all members of this l!ouse. It' we are to ,1plif t the standard of the thing, of our peonle, such basic services must he provide<l. So I fullv support this petition and ask that it he presented on the table of the House and referred to the department to which it relates.

Presenting Ren.arts of Standing and ~elect Committees: f!ON ,A. T. TTOWF. (Min. of Health): ~fr. Speaker. 1 rise to present an annual reports and documents with regard to the Department of llaalth. The Annual Rvport of the Department for the vear 1970 which makes very excellent reading in addition which has a verv excellent portrait of my illustrious predecessor nov the Honourable l.e;ider of the Opposition. In additi.on, Food and Drugf' Amendments, Regulations which referred to the establishment of Drug Regulations in the electoral district of White Ray North.

Also the Medical Care Insurance Tl.egulations and the <]uestion of proration a term which is ~,•ell-known to mv nredecessor. Not illustrious in this case. Also the Report of the Newfoundland Medical Care Commission 1971. Regulations regarding the setting un of grou" practises per definition. I beg to table these Mr. Sneaker. 557

''av 2 • ·972. Tape 208 Pap.e 2. 1'-4r. Speaker, t vish co tl\ble the .l\nnual Reoorc 1971 for the NPwfoundland & Labrador Computer Services L".m:ltecl. N•tices of ~~tfo_!!~ : ~'R.NEARY: 1 r,ivP noctcP that I will on tomorrow in tro duce the followinp. ~HfREA~ an increasing numher of citizens are suffer1nr acutely as a result of harmf111 dossiers maintained on them in the ft lei, of orr11ni za tions snecializin~ in n rovision of financial cre dit information, 11nd

WHEREAS a gre11t deal of this so -calJP.d information is based upon most trivial, flimsv and often mistaken information, and l"HEREAS the citizen ls not ~ene ra]l y a~are of channels a vailable to him through •••hich he mav i n1;pect and correct the informatirin fi.les for missin~ i nformati on and faultv evidence that can have most 5erious Rnd dfsastroui; t:-ffect unon his own life, that of his family smd their nersonal rPputatjons 'i.t1 the communitv as we' ' as uoon their s tandard of livine, and \•)}If.REAS these channels themselves mav he lnadequate and t,~JEREAS hoth in the l"ni ted States and in C1mada p.overnments resnonsible to the needs r-f their c it1 zeni:: are set tj nP uo leizi slat ion and rcflula tlons to pre tect their citizens aPainst this neP and deadlv invasion of privacy 558

May 2,1972 Ta-pe 209 JM - 1 BE IT RE<;OLVED that a Select Committee of the House he appointed to investi!l'ate the present and potential clangers to human rights in this province posed by all organizations maintaining credit anrl personal information on individual citizens for other than their own confi<iential restrictive use anrl that the said Select Committee recommend such addit"ions to the hnman rights 1 erislation of this pr.ovince as are necessary to protect its citizens. M)l_:_ C]i_E_E_S_F::;1:f!ti: Mr.

Speaker. regarding thC' <JUestion ask by the honourable member for Fogo, in answer to the first part of the question the work week is, of course. tie<l to fish lanclinp. which var:1 fT<'lm day to day and week to week. Government is aware of the necessity for additional catchin~ canacity at Burgeo as well as other plants around the coast and is presently working on the problem. Regardinr the second part of the honourable member's question, I must assume that if relief is not beinp. naid it is due to the fact that weekly earnings are too high for the inrlivirluals to Qualify. ~:_.!:!_:"'l_SQ~=-_ Mr.

Speaker, I knot·· it is not in order to make a. comment on a ministerial statement but if the House would indulge or forgive me,might I ask the honourable minister if he has any idea of what the minimum wage is that they are . rnaking, the minimum earnings that they are making there because there seem to be some confusion between their being eligible for relief and unemployment and the ·amount that they are actually makine in the plant? The point I wanted to make is, are those people suffering because they are deprived of )!ettin!! relief or unemployment insurance because of the lack of work in that plant? MR.

CHEESEMAN: Mr. Speaker, I do not have the information specifically which the honourable member requests. If he would be good enough to 559

May 2,1972 Tape 209 .JM - 2 MR. CHEESEMAN: table the question then we will deal with it at a later date. 'LUF.STIONS : MR. MAYNARD: Mr. Speaker, answer to question number ten put forward by the honourable the member for Bell Island, I will take it in parts, where he asks, 'Has the Honourable the Minister received any complaint or inauiry from the United Steel \.)orkers of America rer.ardinr. the Electric Reduction Company of Canada at Lonp.: Harbour1 '' The answer is yes, enquires have been received from the local there throur.h their international representative.

Section number two requests. ''J f so, table any and al 1 corresnondence relatin!!" thereto?'' I d0< not feel, Mr. Speaker, that it would be in the hest interest of the investir,ation that is being carried out or in the ororress of that investigation to table the documents in the !louse at this time.

Number three says, ''Indicate for each instance of enquiry or complaint. what action did the Honourable Min_ister take in each case. any investigation or inspection that is continuing, and the results of any investigation?'' To mention each specific incident would take most of the afternoon but I will say that the safety division of the Workman's Compensation Board has been carrving out the insnections on a regular basis, once per week, and they are in ~ontinuing contact with the company.

I have also been nersonally involvecl in that I did an inspection of the plant accompanied by my colleague, the honourable Minister of Health, and I have been in contact _with the comp,my and the loc2l union officials on several occasions. To answer; what is the nature of each unsatisfactory workin11: condition,I would have to make the documents public and as I said I do not think it would be in the best interest of the progress 560

May 2,1972 Tane 209 JM - 3 l'!R. MAYNARD: - . ·- ---- -·-• - - - that is being made at this time to do so at thjs particular time. MR. RORERTS: !-1r. Speaker, if it is in orcier I h;ive a question for the Minister of Health and I am sorry I did not hiwe the onportunity to r:ive hjm notice but mavbe he will now take this as notice, Therl' are rer,orts that there have be.en found in Mt. P<'arJ needles with all sorts of substances in them and al..lep,ed.lv these needles have emanated directly or indirectly from officials eir.nloyf>d bv the honounible i:rentleman.

I wonder if he could tel1 the Pouse: whether there is any substance to these reports and if so, wh;it is heine done? As I said I did not have thf> opportunitv to ~ive him notice and I will ']Uite understand if he wants to take this as notice and get the in formation a little later 1 hut I think there is sornP nublic concern. DR. ROHE: Mr. Speaker, I will take notice of the ouestion but I would say that T only know what I saw in the papers and I have asked my der,artment officials to investirate the actual basis of this. MR. HARVEY: Mr.

Sneaker, I would like to direct a oucstion to the honourable Minister of Health. Ts there a study now beinr: carried out by either the government or the International Grenfell Association as to whether they w111 build a nursing station or a medical ~linic at ~ort Hope Simpson? The reason I ask this, Mr. Speaker, is _ the fact that the people from Port !lope Simpson will very shortly be moving to their fishing grounds, comprisin!! of probably three, four, five communities, and if there is a study.

I understand before the previous administration had left office as l had been negotiating witb the Department of Health to have this study rlone by a certain member of their team and I am wondering if this could be done or is it beinr carried out now? 561

May 2,1972 Tape 209 JM - 4 DR_'.--~~-: Mr. Speaker, the answer to the question is that there has been a study which is bein,z completed by a Federal and Provincial Task Force on the requisites for certain areas of Labrador includin? the area in ouestion. Tam not yet in possession of this report. It is clue momentarily and I will be happy to give it to the honourable member when the report is available. 562

May 2, 1972 Tape no. 210 Page 1 - MRW On motion of the hon, Minister of Finance, a bill, "An Act To Ratify And Confirm An Agreement Made Between The Government And Certain Companies Relating To The Linerboard Mill At Stephenville And To Provide For Certain Matters !Elating Thereto," read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. On motion of the hon. Mr.

Marshall: " To move that a Select Cammi ttee consisting of eight members comprising five members on the government side of the House and three members of the opposition to be appointed to consider the rules, procedures and standing orders of this honourable House with a view to recommending such changes as may be necessarv in order to make this House operate in a more efficient and effective manner and in particular but not so as to restrict the generality to recommend the composition and nature of standin~ committees of this honnurable House and the mode of operation of same which said recommendation pertaining to standing committees shall be brought in as soon as possible and shall be deemed to be first and paramount duty of the said committee and I do move that this said committee have the right to sit during and throughout the session whether the House is in or out of sitting." On motion resolution, carried.

MR. SPEAKER: Pursuant to Standing Order 88, I hereby appoint to the Select Committee on Rules, Procedures and :-; canding Orders of this honourable House: One, the chairman of this committee, the hon. the member for St. John's East; two, the hon. the member for St. Mary's; three, the hon. the member for St. John's West; four, the hon. the member for Placentia West; five, the hon. the member for St. John's South; six, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition; seven, the hon. member for White Bay South and eight the hon. member for Labrador South. On motion of the hon.· Mr.

Marshall: "To move that a Select Committee upon Public Accounts be appointed to consider the Public Accounts and the report of the Auditor General for the fiscal period ending March 31, 1971, and all 563

May 2, 1972 Tape no. 210 Page 2 matters pertaininp, thereto with power to call for persons, papers and records, to examine witnesses under oath and to report from time to time their observations and opinions thereon and that the said committee have the ri~ht to sit during and throughout the session whether the House is in or out of sitting." MR. ROBERTS: ----- Mr. Speaker, although this is .a debatable motion, t:he House will be relieved to know that I have no intention . of debating it, Q,bviously my colleagues and I will vote for it. Perhaps the House Leader may wish to comment upon this now.

Last year , the final sesr,; ,, on of the Thirty-Fourth General Assembly, there was a Select Commir.tee on the Auditor General's Report. The hon. gentleman from Burin, now the hon. Minister of Justice,was a member and I was a member and the third member, the then member for Port au Port,met with an unfortunate accident on the 28th. October and is no longer. with us. The committee met a number of times and did extremely good work bv means of setting entrain a number of studies by Peat Marwick and Mitchell.

Before the committee could either present a report or for that matter even have a concluding meeting, the Thirty-Fourth General Assembly was dissolved and the election ensued. My question is whether the work done by that committee (I believe bills have been submitted to the Internal Economy Commission - Peat and Marwick feel good about that and they have done the work) or the results of that work will be referred (Indeed the subject matter of that committee which is the same as one of the subjects being covered bv this motion) to this new select conn1ittee when it is appointed as I am sure it will be? _MR.

MARSHALL: Yes, Mr. Speaker, the government have the report that was done b_y the committee last year and in particular the studies of Kates, Peat, Marwick and Mitchell and 'Peat, Marwick and Mitchell. We have this documentation in our possession and will be utilized not only with respect to this committee which we would like to look on really as a temporary committee for this sitting. Also it will be used with respect to t:he Standing ,:ommittee on Public Accounts. I do not want to anticipate the recommendation 564

May 2, 1972 Tape no, 210 Page 3 Mr. Marshall of the first committee under motion (4) today but I feel quite sure that a permanent committee on public accounts will be brought in and recommended. We will be using the information gained from Peat, Marwick and Mitchell as well as any other information that we can get. MR.

SPEAKER: Pursuant to Standing Order 88, I hereby appoint to this Select Committee on Public Accounts the following: the chairman of the committee; the hon. member for Labrador North; the hon. the member for Bell Island; the hon. the member for Fortune Bay; the hon. the member for Harbour Grace and the hon. the member for Trinity South. On motion,a bill, "An Act To Amend The Statute Law," read a third time, ordered passed and title be as on the Order Paper. On motion,a bill, "An Act Further To Amend The Registration Of Deeds Act," read a third time, ordered passed and title be as on the Order Paper.

On motion,a bill, "An Act Further To Amend The Assignment Of Books Debts Act," read a third time, ordered passed and title be as on the Order Paper. On motion, a bill, "An Act Further To Amend The Direct Sellers Act, 1966," read a third time, ordered passed and title be as on the Order Paper. On motion, a bill, "An Act Further To Amend The Evidence Act," read a third time, ordered passed and title be as on the Order Paper, On mc,tion, a bill, "An Act Further To Amend The Commissioners For Oaths Act, 1954," read a third time, ordered passed and title be as on the Order Paper. 565

nay 2, 1972 Tape 211 On motion, a l·, ill. •·An Act Further To Amend The Prisons Act, 1969, " read a third time, ordered passed and title be as on the Order '.'aper. PK - 1 nn motion, a bill, "An Act Respectin!! The Registration Of Partnerships,,. read a third time, ordered passed and title he as on the Order Paper. 011 motion. a hill. '"An Act Resnectinsr The Orp.:ani,;ation, Operation:,. Functions, Powers, Duties, Rir.hts And Privile!!es Of The ~t. John's Fire Department, ,. read a third time, ordered passed and title he as on the Order Paper.

On motion, a bill, "An \ct Futher To Amend The ~ummary Jurisdiction Act, ·· read a third time, ordered passed anrl title he as on the Order Paper. On motion. a bill, "An Act 'l.r Amend The Attachment Of Wages Act, 1966-196 7, ,. read a third t:lme, ordered passed and title he as on the Order P~per. On motion, a hill, "An Act To Amend The Chattels Real Act.,. read a third time, ordered passed and title he as on the Order Paper. On mot -ion. a hill, "An Act To Amend.

Revise And r.onsolidate The J,aw Respecting The Orp.anization And Administration Of Community Councils," read a third time, ordered passed and title he as on the Order Paper. On motion. a hill, 'An Act To /\mend, Revise And Consolidate The Law Relatin~ To The Establishment And Administration Of Local Government" read a third time, ordered passed and title be as on the Order Paper. On motion, a bill, "'An Act Further To /\mend The Local Government (Receivership) Act. "read a third time, ordered passed and title ~e as on the Order Paper. 566

~lay 2, 1972 ·rape 211 On r.iotion . a l-,iJt, :

An Act t o Reneal l'he llowr:i.n~ Park Area (Control) Act,., read a th ird time, or dered pas sed and title he as on the Orde r Paper . PK - 2 Clo m.-,tion, a bill, "An Act Fui:ther To Amend The St. John• s (Netro poli. tan Area) Act, 196 3," read a third c.ime. orde re.d pas!'led and title be as on the Order Pape r. On wotion, a hill, ·•An Act Furthe1: To /lmend n,e Ci ty Of Corner Brook Act. 1968,'' -read a third·time, orde-red nassed and titJ.e he as on the Order raper.

On motion . a bill, "An Act Respectin tt The Apnlicat:lon And Effect Of Certain Acts Passed In The Present S~ssion Of The Legislatu r e Upon The Revised Statutes "f Ne 1->foundJ.and, ,. read a third time . ordered passed and t~tle he as on the Order Paper . nn motion . a hill. "An Act To l{epeal The Pensions (Premiums) Act , 1966-1967, " read a thi.rd time. orde recl passed and title he as on the nrde-r l'ape r. 567

May 2, 1972 Tape No. 212 NC - l On motion, a bill, "An Act To Repeal The Pensions(Premiums)Act, 1966-67," read a third time, ordered passed and title be as on the Order Paper. On motion, a bill, "An Act To Repeal The Contingencies Act,' ' read a third time, ordered passed and title be as on the Order Paper, On motion, a bill, "An Act Further To Amend '1:he Agreement Entered Ino, Executed And Delivered In Pursuance Of And In The Form Set Forth In The

Schedule To The Government-Newfoundland Cement Company Limited And North Star Cement Limited (Authorization Of Agreement) Act, 1959, And To Make Certain Statutory Provisions Relating To That Agreement,,. read a third time, ordered passed ·and title be as on the Order Paper. On motion, a bill,"An Act To Amend The Agreement Ratified, Confirmed And Adopted By And Set Forth In The

Schedule To The Newfoundland Fibrply Limited (Agreement) Act, 1963, And To Make Certain Statutory Provisions Relating To That Agreement," read a third time, ordered passed and title be as on the Order Paper. On motion, a bill, "An Act Further To Amend The Provincial Parks Act," read a third time, ordered passed and title be as on the Order Paper. On motion, a bill; "An Act Further To Amend The Pippy Park Commission Act, 1968," read a third time, ordered passed and title be as on the. Order Paper.

On motion, a bill, "An Act Further To Amend The Constabulary (Pensions) Act, 1970," read a third time, ordered passed and title be as on the Order Paper. On motion, a bill, "An Act Further To Amend The Public Service (Pe11sions) Act, 1968," read a third time, ordered passed and title be as on the Order Paper. On motion, a bill, "An Act Respecting The Award Of An Increase Of Pensions To Or In Respect Of Certain Employees Of The Government And Certain Teachers," read a third time, ordered passed and title be as on the Order Paper. 568

~•tty 2, 1972 Tape 212 N<: - 2 On r.iotion. a Bill, '

An Act To Ameml The Civil Service (Tran sf errecl Emp] oyc es) Act, 1956 . ·· P.Pad a third ti:Me, ordered nasse(l anfl title be as on the Order Paper. On motion , a Bill, ' f.n Act Further To Amend The ·civil Service Act . ' Read a third time, ordered passed and title he as on the Or der Paper. On motion that chc House to i.nto C'ommittee of the l"hole for the purpose of considerfoit Orc!ers 32 - 36 incl 11s i ve, ~r . Snea ker left the Chai r . _CO!-'l'fITTEf. (l'r> THE W110L0E..: f. BiJl. ' An ,o,ct To Amend, ~ev ise And Consolidate The J.,m Respectin r Ch:!ldren Qf tlnmarried i'a r P.n ts . · 569

}fay 2, 197 2. Tape 213 Par,e l }•otion, that the Committee report having passed the Bi.11, without amendment, carried. )!R. BARRY: It has been sug~ested, I do not 1:·.now wha.t the honourar-le the Fouse Leader would have to say, and the Opposition, hut that rather than go through clause by clause we could do it clauses l to 40 inclusive.' carry,' unless there is a specific clause in a snecifir. act that one of t he honourable rnembers nli~ht wish to comment on. ~R. r~JIJ?SHALL: I think,Mr .

Chairman, from the Covernrnent's nojnt of view that would be auite an admirable procedure whfch we would heartilv endorse. l clo not lcnow what MY honourable friend would thinJr · }(R. W.ROWE: We go alonr . with that as well, Nr. C'hairman. The only thing is we tried to do this yesterday on a lengthy hill and in conference with the Law Clerl· . I thjnk he e.xpressed at that tir.,e some doubt. Have they now been resolved?

We would not want on this side to condone or go alonp. with anythinf here now tvhich might be contrary to some obscure Standing Order whjch invalidates the hill at ;i later time, or gives rise to some problem in the law courts at a later time. I tMnk t>S far as the Standin~ Orders are concerned that if it js hy unanimous leave of the House - jn effect they are chan f ing the order - A Bill, '

An Act To !\r!lend, Revise And Consolidate The Law Pespectinr, The Welfare nf Children.' JAR. HICJO'/\N · Clause 32, an amendment that 32 (2) line 3, the word to he deleted , after the · word release. On motion , clause 32 as amended, carried. ~lotion, that the Committee report havin!!' passed the Bill with some amendment, carried. A Dill , ·

An Act To Amend The Social J.ssistance /\ct, 1971.' Motion, that the Committee report havin~ passed the Rill without amendment, carried. A Bill,

An Act Further To .Amend The Social Assistance Act, 1971. · }lotion. tha.t the Committee report having passed the Bill wi thout amendment, carrie .cl. 570

May 2, 1972 Tape 214 PK - 1 MR W.N.ROWF.: Mr. Chairman, I realize that we are being a little bit lenient with some of these len1?thy hills on which neither side seems to have much to contribute hut we would appreciate over here if we did get the consent of the members of the !louse to do for each particular bill - for example on thls one there are one or two questions I wanted to ask, particularly tn respect of clause (12). HR MARSHALL: 'fhe hon. member for Hh:!.te Ilay South is qu1.te correct.

As horinp as this may appear to he, at certain sta)!es it is necessarv and T think we perhaps could revert to the previous system, until we reform it anyway. HR, 1-1.N. ROWE: nn some of these lenp,;thier ones on which there has not heen much debate during seconcl reaclinp. ve are quite willi.nf!,if the Chair were ·o ask us at the be)!inninr. of the len)!thly hills whether Pe have -ome points to raise and if we said no,well then we will p,ive our una: :imous consent to p.o ahead and pass them,a.l l the clauses in hulk. nut if we do have some points to raise, well then obviously each clause has to be put. MR.

CtTA; J(}!AN :Yes, I thoup._ht that was the understanding . ~-fR ._ ~.!l...:._ ROWE:. Yes, it Pas the understanding for the h:111 he forehand but not for this one . NR. r '[1,'_.tl{NAN: Do you wish to start at the first clause againn :MR. MARSHALL: You mi.ght ;ust go hack and call them clause hy clause For thifl hill and in future we could do that and get the necessary unanimous consent ,,,tth each specific pj_ece of legislation. A t-,ill, "An Act To Amend, Revise And Consolidate The Law ReSJ)ecting The AdopHon Of Children." MR. 1!. N. ROWF.: On clanse

(12) Mr. Chairman, I wonder if the honourable minister has had an opportunity to discuss the matter vhich we raised last nip:ht with his coll .eaRttes and the matter, to refresh the memory of honourable memh"ers,is with reference to the religious persuasion of the child antl the religious persuasion of 571

May 2, 1972 Tape 214 PK - 2 MR. ROWf. , W.N. the adopting parents. It was our submission last nip.ht vou mav recall, f;ir, that we think that the p1,rase "1n the bei;t " interests of the child and the best interests of the parents perhaps the a<loptinp, parents would he sufficient to cover every possible contingency that mir,ht arise in resnect of the child. The _iudge in appropriate cases could hrinv the matter of religion into the question if the child were of such years tha.t -a religious quest ion or a question of religious persuasion did in fact have some lv:aring on thP problem.

T th:ln1· the phrase "the interest of the child ac d the interest of the parents" is sufficiently larr.e. to al lm,, the jud1,e to use his p.ood discretion and to allow witnesses before the court to use their cliscretion as to Phat evidence they will give. The oroblem with insertinr, this whole :Idea of relipious nersuasion into the act is that the judge and all other people involved would feel constrained on every occasion to drag that particular thinp:, to tr .. c that out and to bring it into the question of an adoption order being made.

Ile think it is needless in this day and age and that all reasonahle men in religi,, :., associated with churches, all reasonable men and women in society today would thi.nk that the hest interests of the chil d would be looked after hy the people involved in adoptions , the _iudges and the director of adoptions, the Director of Child Welfare, the minister and all other people concerned and certainly among them all make sure that the best interests of the child are looked after and this, of c,,urse, would include the question of religious persuasion, if any,of the child being considered for adoption.

I wonder, Sir, if the minister could have a remark or two on that particular point? HON. T .A. RICKEY: (MINISTER OF SOC:IAL SERVICES AND REHABILITATION): Mr . r:rv •,:~;:m, I appreciate it very much the remarks that my friend made last 572

May 2, 1972 Tape 214 PK - 3 ~ff?.. HICKEY: night on this matter. I gave certain information then, r have since done a great deal of thinking on it and discussed it with my officials as well as my colleagues. I feel, Sir, at rhis point 1 am not in a position to agree that this clause should change. Not mind you that I <lo not agree with a great deal that l!lY honourahle friend on the other side has said, but as I pointed out last night a very warm and sincere relationship is presently existing between my department and the various relir,ious denominations. For ouite a number of years, Hr.

Chairman, there have been cases where children have not been nlaced and indeed they have been without a good home because of this religious barrier. In the past number of years a great deal of progress has been made in this regard. There is at the moment, as I have indicated, a very good relationshin. While I feel that it is necessary that the most important thf.np: being a good home for the child,the first and foremost,yet J feel that I am not in a position at this time to take this particular step to remove that

section in the cl;mse which deals with the religious persuasion of the parent or ti,e chiJd.

It says in the clause that 1 ·keepin~ in mind the best interest of the child and the religious persuasion, both the child and parents with whom the child is being placed." I think really all we are saying is that.,a.rd all of the various denominations are saying, in agreeing that this should remain, in saying that they are not ready to remove this particular item as it where or clause,that prop.:ress is being made that on a number of occasions children have in fact 1,een _J laced in homes where the religion is not that of the child or its mother and the machinery is availahle to take care of imch a case as this.

I feel,as J had indtcated last night,that maybe the time is not far off,if we pursue this matter in a conr,enial and mutual way as we are at the moment, maybe the time will arrive when we can dispens with this. But at this time 573

May 2, 1972 Tape 215 MR. HICKEY: and in the interest of the various religious denominations who have been most co-operative and in the interest of a fair number of children whom we are not placing in homes of other religions I feel that I would be afraid that in maklnp; this change at this point that we may ta~e a step backwards rather than a step forward. So I would not want to upset the· present situation and 1 would hope that in the near future we can orobably take that last bold step. MR. ROWE (W.N.): Mr.

Chairman, I resr,ect completely the feeling of the honourable minister on this point and certainly we over here would not want to push through the House or pressure the governMent or embarass the government into rushing through the House somethinp which did not have the consent of other parties involved.

You know we would not want to do it unilaterally or anything although I still think that the point which we have made here and the point which I know a great number of members of this House agree with is a p;ood one, namely that al.though in the case of children who have reached what you mi~ht call some mature years,four, five, six and onw,;trd like that where they have in fact had religious instruction and religious training and had thought that perhaps they might be put in a different milieu, a different environment, a different religious sort of environment where there could be a traumatir or a bad effect upon t~em psychologically as a result.

In those cases by all means the religious question is a verv important one. I would ask the minister too, as he undoubtedly will, to give further consideration to it and perhaps we could come up with some practical lin.e where the religious question will have no bearing at all. For example, it might be possible, I do not JM - 1 know, I will just tht1ow it out for consideration, it might be possible 574

May 2, 1972 Tape 215 MR. ROWE: --- -- . . .. to draw a line where a child is under the are of two or three or something like that then the reliP,ious question does not even enter into the picture at all when adoption orders are being considered but that in cases of children above that age where they will have had some exposure to religious training then, of course.the religious ouestion would have a stronr bearing on the outcome of the application for adoption.

I think that is probably a good practical solution to the problem and I am sure the honourable minister is going to proceed with this with the hope that in all cases, if not now then in the future, in all cases without doubt the sole consideration reallv of the chilrl being considered for adoption is the best interests of that child and the provision to that child of a p;ood home with good affectionate and loving parents and the other attributes that ~o with a ?,ood household in this Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

I am sure that the minister will proceed along those lines and nerhaps before too long, maybe even in this session or in some other session,as I note this bill is really only a consolirlation,when he brings in some other amendments to this act to be passed that perhaps we will see some further progress made along the lines which we have outlined on this side of. the House. T reneat that I do not want to upset any ·apple carts.

I do not want to pressure the House nor try to emha·rass the government J~ - 2 into doing something unilaterally which is "' verv delicate situation anrl which really shonld have the consent and authorization of all parties concerned. MR. HICKEY: Mr. Chairman, before we pass the clause I think I should maybe point out to my honourable friend that we fully appreciate his thoughts on this and I know exactly what he is thinking of in 575

May 2, 1972 Tape 215 JM - 3 MR. HICKEY: --~- --- - -- terms of the younger children.

I am not in a position to sav all that T woulcl like to at this point but I have said and I will repeat that this whole matter, this whole area is actively being pursued The only reason that we are not at this time ready to agree to changing this clause is that if we were to do so, for example,and if we were to isolate iust one denomination wherein within the next year or so one child were tn he kept out of a home because of it then certainly none of us here in this House would be able to clefenrl our nositions. lt is with this in mind, and I am sure he agreell, that it is strictly within the best interest of our children that we adopt this attitude at this time.

I can assure him that we will continue to pursue the matter anrl at the earliest oossible moment, if and when there is a break-throup.h where we can bring in legislation to change this, we will be more than happy to do so. MR. ROWE_(H.N.)_: Mr. Ch!lirman, I would like to raise - o .. the remaininp.: clausi2s in the bill,if the House Leader would like to see them ~o throu~h we will accept gladly. On motion. Clauses 13 - 27, carried. Motion that the Committee renorts having nassed the bill without amendments, carried.

On motion that the Committee rise and report having passed Bil.ls no. 5, 1, 36 and -24 without amendments and the following hill with some amendments, Bill no. 6, Mr. Speaker returned to the Chair. MR. BARRY: Mr. Speaker, the Committee of the ~fuole have considered the matters to them referred and have directed me to report having passed the following bills without amendments Bills no. 5, 1, 36 and 24 ,md the following bill with some amendments Bill no. 6 and ask 576

May 2, 1972, Tape 215 .TI-i -- 4 }'R. llAP_RY · -- ·- · --- leave to sit again. On ~otion report received and adopted. Bills ordered read a third time, tomorrow. ADDFESS IN REPLY· l>'P.. SPEAKER: The Chair reco~njzes the honourable rnemher for Placentia West. 577

May 2, 1972 Tape No. 216 NC - 1 MR. BARRY (Ll.:_ Mr. Speaker, for me standing here today as the member for the great and historic District of Placentia West~ Placentia West is a district which stretches from North Harbour, Garden Cove and Swift Current on one end of the district down to Marystown and the smaller communities around Marystown at the other end of the district. In the district therefore we have not only one of the largest towns in Newfoundland, a town which is growing rapidly and in fact some people, particularly the Town Council,will say it js growing or has grown at times too rapidly.

But we also ha.ve some of the smaller communities, communiti.es which are still isolated,as the hon. members from Labrador have spoken ahout some of their communities which are only accessable at certain times. In Placentia West we still have communities which are accessable only by boat and the people therefore do not have the amenities which many of us here in St. John's and in the more accessable areas take for granted. With respect to the To1<'Il of Marys tO'-''Il, Mr. Speaker, I think lessons can be learned.

In Marystown therewere moved large numbers of people during the resettlement programme, these people were moved by the · previous administration without i:oo much consideration being given to what was to happen to them when they arrived in the relocated area and without too much consideration as to how the community was to provide services for the great increase in population. Mr.

Speaker, I submit that while I am not prepared to say that resettlement is completely wrong or that there is nothing to say in its favour, I think there are perhaps some economies which can be gained by resettlement, Rowever, I am prepared to say, Mr. Speaker, that a government,when it undertakes to make major changes in the population patterns of a province, shouJd be prepared to undertake the responsibility of seeing that connnunity services, for example,are provided, that the 578

May 2, 1972 Tape No. 216 NC - 2 MR. BARRY: communities into which the people are resettled have the money to provide sufficient services for the new citizens of the town. Now this was not done in the past. In the past we had large numbers of people resettle into communities and the government throwing up its hands and saying, "well, this is your problem now.

You are the municipality you have to provide the services." If there is a large increase, a large burden placed on a municipality because of government policy, then the government must be prepared to step in and share this burden or assist the municipality in carrying the burden. Mr. Speaker,! want to briefly discuss some of the things which I see are of importance in Newfoundland, not just to the District of Placentia West but to our entire province. Newfoundland is traditionally referred to as one of the have-not provinces. Now, Mr.

Speaker, as a citizen of this province this disturbs me somewhat because I do not think that it is necessary for us to consider ourselves one of the have-not provinces. Granted today in terms of the money which is being made in Newfoundland, in terms of the economyour economy has not been up to that of say of Ontario. However, Mr. Speaker, when we look at our province and when we look at the potential of our province I do not think that we have to say, "we are a have-not province and we are going to remain a have-not province." We do not have to say that we are going to continu f, to be a have-not province.

If we could just look briefly, Mr. Speaker, at some o'f the resources which we have in this province,! think we would come to realize that Newfoundland has a tremendous future provided it has the proper type of government,and this I am sure it is going to receive from the present administration. Look at first of all, Mr. Speaker, the marine resources of Newfoundland. Now traditionally it has been customary when we speak of marine resources, we are speaking only of the fisheries. But today in 579

May 2, 1972 Tape No. 216 NC - 3 MR. BARRY: Newfoundland chat is not the case. We have to look fu~ther. We have to look at what is happening out on the Grand Banks in terms of exploration for oil and gas. I think it is something, Mr. Speaker, that a lot of us do not yet realize I T he extent of the capital ·outlay which is being made and which will be made by oil companies on the Grand Banks over the next few years. To mention briefly just a few fiiures: We have on the Continental Shelf of Canada 40% of the total lAnd area.

In other words, the area covered by sea on our Continental Shelf equals 40% of that land area not covered by water. We have in Canada potential oil reserves. Studies done by oil com:panies and studies done by the Federal Government primarily indic3tc that SO% of Canada's potential oil and ~as reserves lie underwater un the Continental Shelf, 5SO

May 2, 1972 Tape no. 217 Page 1 - MRW Mr. Barry. fifty per cent. They also show that fifty per cent of this lies on the East Coast, in other words on the Grand Banks primarily . The oil companies have estimated and in fact they are required under the term of the federal permits to expend somewhere in the vicinity of $1 billion over the next ten to twelve vears in exploration, looking for oil and gas on the Continential Shelf. Now, Mr. Speaker, what we in Newfoundland have to ensure is that this money, the expenditure of this money is not something which has no benefit for Newfoundland. It is easy for us, Mr.

Speaker, to remain completely unaware and unaffected by such a large expenditure of monev even though it is of that order of magnitude. If, Mr. Speaker, there are workmen employed from the United States, if there are machineries built in other provinces, if the services for this oil exploration is not tied in with the economv, . the11 it does not matter if it is $1 or $1 billion 'ind it is going to be that is spent if Newfoundland will not benefit. Mr. Speaker, the previous administration gave certain permits, certain exploration rights to companies off the Grand Banks.

Now I do not know the extent of the concessions that were given. I understand that there is a committee appointed or about to be appointed to look into this. But, Mr. Speaker, I do know that there have been concessions given indiscriminately and without proper planning. There have been concessions given without the r.overnment 0f Newfoundland having made priorities; having determined for example how much it is going to insist on oil companies using Newfoundland labour; how much it is going to insist on oil companies having their oil rigs serviced within the Province of Newfoundland?

Now I am not saying that the province can write a blank cheque. I am not saying that the p,·ovince can say to the oil companies:' You cannot do anything here unless you do it in Newfoundland. You cannot use any labour except that which comes from Newfoimdland. 581

May 2, 1972 Tape no. 217 Page 2 Mr. Barry You cannot use any machinery except that made in Newfoundland:' Obviously, we can go too far in this regard. But what 1 am saying is that we have to bargain with the oil companies because the oil companies are not coming in as philanthropic organizations, lbey are not coming in just to benefit Newfoundland. They are coming in to make dollars for themselves and this is the free enterprise system that we have had some discussion about today and previous days here in this House.

I am not saying that there is anything wrong with oil companies making dollars as long as in the making of these dollar~ they benefit the economy of Newfoundland. What I am saying, Mr, Speaker, is that up to now in Newfoundland, there has been no consideration given to what we want from this oil exploration, If there has been no consideration given to what we want, there has obviously been no bargaining with these oil companies. Now at present we have a number of different companies that have concessions. Some of these companies are utilizing their permits properly.

I do not know if all of the companies are, This is s, mething which this government a.re going to have to find out. There have been concessions given to oil companies and concessions given to other companies which have had no interest in oil up to the present time. The question which comes to my mind, Mr. Speaker, is have we given concessjons out to individuals or to companies as mere speculation? Are these individuals interested in oil concessions merely for the sake of selling these to other companies who are gen~rally interested in exploiting these mineral resources of the Continential Shelf?

If concessions have been given to companies or individuals and these companies and individuals are not prepared to spend money in exploration, then the government will have to take a hard look and see whether these concessions can be taken back and given to people who are going to spend money in searching for the oil and gas which almost certainly lies underneath 5 !5 2

May 2, 1972 Mr. Barry the Continential Shelf. Tape no. 217 Page 3 Now to a certain extent you may say 1 what is the point of us talking about something which may or may not be there? 583

~•ay 2, l'J72 Tape :'18 PK - 1 !-'IR. BARRY: Hell thifl billion dollars which 1 have sooken of is goinp, to he snent whPther or not there is any oil or gas there. This is the all'ount of money that is going to be spent in exploring, in looking for the oi 1 and gas. fo .iust jn that amo11nt of monev alone we have a notenti.al henefit to Newfoundl :md, a potentially great 1'em•fit as long as Newfou11dland nlans to take advantage of t i d s. Rut we can also say that there is a very great likelihood of oil and g<1s beinr discovered and therefore we have to start planning now.

It 1s too lilte, we ,-!i.11 not he in ;i r:ood rargaining position if Pe wait until oil ancl ras is discovered and then start to 1'ar,i:ain, 1•!e have to start to detennine · ur priori. ties now. If T could iust refer briefly to some of the ffuP.st:ions which we as ;i Province ~-•i 11 have to answ e r., Thes e are policy guidPlines which have ),een fed out h y the "cience , r.ounci.l of r.anacla iust last ~eptemhrr in ;i s pecial study on !-'arine Science and Technolo gy. The y say that c1 number of policy guidelines urgently need to he laid down, presumahlv hv cahinet.

This is referrinp. to the federal government. ~o~e of t hese ;ire· To what extent should the requirements to ensure a large Canadian narticipation in the offshore develonment T,e allowed to effect the ranid and efficient location and development of the rP.source? Tn other words, to what extent do we sav, okay, go to it Pithout restriction hecause tl:ie quicker we find oil and gas, the hetter off we are?

We are not r,oing to slow you d0t,m hv reouirinP that you use Canadian lahour that you tra5n >,ewfoundland lahour, l•le are not iroing to require you to use oil rigs that are built in ranada because all we are interested in is finding the gas and oil as ffuickly as possible. That is one trade off. Do ,,,e want them to find it as quickly as possihle or do we want to say:" No,do it a little more slowly to give us time to pear our economy into what you are doing.' To what extent should the need for rep:ional industrial development take 5~4

May 2, 1972 Tape 218 PK - 2 HR. BARRY: orecedence over the requirement for efficiency in Canadian participation which might he greater if most of it occurred in the industrial heartland of the country. Now this is the federal government. This is a policy which the federal government is sayinp; it deci:les. 1'0 what extent are we 11:oing to urge fast,development of oil and 11:as without giving the undeveloped regions an opportunity to hecome involved? This comes to my next criticism of the previous administration, that they have not, did not set out their own regulations.

They did not determine policy for Newfoundland. The previous administration said ; , W-? will rely on the Canadian 0overnment setting policy and regulating the oil industry.

But what they forgot was that what is a Rood policy for Canada, for the federal government,is not necessari] y the best policv for Newfoundland. \~e l'!et into also of course the question of jurisdiction where Ne.wfoundland and Canada are directly at odds as to who is entitled to tpe henefits of the resources ~f the Continental Shelf. ~o it is a complete abrogation of authority of the Newfoundland Government, a complete shirking of responsihility to say we are goin,g to permit the Canadian r.overnment to determine. the poH cy which w:Ul regulate the o:f.l companies that are explorinp. for oil and gas.

I understand right now that the Canadian Government is negotiating with France concerning where the dividing line will be dra~m hetween the Canadian Continental Shelf and the Conti.nental ~helf around St. Pierre and }(iquelon. Now maybe they have been consulting the Newfoundland Government. Maybe one of my colleagues or one of the honourable ministers can tell me this. But I have not heard of any consultation with the Newfoundland Government and I am afraid that they may not have consulted the Newfoundland Government.

If they have not 1this is a case where the federal government is in effect decidinp, how much of a Newfoundland resr,urce we are going to have 5S5

}'ay 2, 1972 Tape 218 PK - 3 'fR.. BARRY: and how m;.;ch it is going to give to the Government of France, hecause of the position of the Islands of St. Pierre and Miquelon. T :,-,,, not sayinr that we do not have to draw a dividin~ line what I am saying is that the NePfoundland Government :Is entitled to he consulted on this and if the Federal Government has not heen carryin~ on these negotiations in complete consultation with the ~ewfoundland Covernment then the Federal Government needs to be brought up short and told just what the proper position should he. Mr.

Speaker. oil and gas is not a mere fancy, oil and gas is present. The oil companies would not he prepared to spend over S51) million a year in the eXJ)loration and the search for oil and vas if there t,•erE>not a very great possibility of its presence on our !'.ast Coast. It is somethinf', Mr. Speaker, that we are not goini;t to benefit as we should from unless our government s:lts do~rn now. llnfortunatley. it should have heen done three or four years ago, hut we have to do it no11.

We have to determine what our policies are going to he and we have to determine just what we are going to insist on from the entrepreneu ·.-s, the promoters wh~ are going to he developing and exploitinr: the oil and gas resources once they are found. Now this is one of our marine resources, Mr. Speaker, which is not normally considered when we talk of the great potential of our province. T would like to mention just a few words on the fisheries if T. could. There has been much debate already on thi.s.

But I would 1:1.ke to refer to the position ~,:f.th respect to the Danes and the recent policy of the federal government in preventing our Newfoundland fishermen and other Canadian fishermen from engagin~ in the salmon fishe·ry to quote ''Shame the Danes into doing something to conserve the salmon stocks."

' 1ay 2 , 1-972 Tape 218 PK - 4 ',fR. BARRY: --- - - row , 1r. ~peaker, r would submi. t that the fe.deral go vern ment has not done all it could before takinp. this drast ic ste p t o conserve the salmon stocks. i'or exat11ple. if we went to­ Denmark. if 1,•e spoke to the ordinar y n anish citizen , we '1-'ould find, ' 1r. Speaker. that this is not an i.ssue which tht! l'lan in the street in nenmark speaks about. ~Ir .

Speaker. 1 have to as k the fede ra l rovernment whv is it that t he Dani s h citizens do not lmo1,1 the an1er, the trouble that the policies of t he nanish Governr:ien c are c ausiniz to )lewf ound!anders and the Canadians gene rally . 1 would sulmi t. ,tr.

Spe aker, that H the feder al $tOvernment had carried out a s:ood puhli c re l ations camoaiyn, not in Ne<,•foundlan d. not in ~,ew Bruns,·ic k . not in ~ova ~cotia wher e they seem to be t-ut in nen!'lar k that the y cou.l cl have had a much izreater ef feet . a much more henefic ial effect on conservation than they have !la d in hannin r, ancl t-arrin g ,lewfoundland ers f rom f ishi n11 for salmon. 1 ask t he fede ral government t o cell us ho1,, much puhlic rel ations 1-·ork ha ve they clone in Denmark itself . Thev anoear to me to this sta~e to 1'e calkin~ t o '.·'.ewfoun d landet:s 587

May 2, 1972 Tape No. 219 NC - 1 MR. BARRY: and Canadians generally, but not to the people of the country which is causing our problem. Now we have also had a comment a few days ago that Denmark only has fourteen or fifteen boats that are now exploiting the salmon fishery This is complete nonsen~e. This is ridiculous, Mr. Speaker, as any statement of the quantity of salmon which has been caught by the Danes over the last few years will indicate. There appears to be no doubt and I have not heard one scientist come out and say that it is not the Danes who are endangering the salmon stocks.

I have nothing against conservation but I do have something against measures which are taken that will not do what they are intended to do. How much shame is there going to be in Denmark because our fishermen in Newfoundland are no longer cat.;hing salmon? They will not even know about it. What pressure will there be on the Danish Government? There will be very little,! submit.

But if we did have a public relations ~ampaign started in Denmark itself to inform the people of the international ravage that their country had undertaken in the salmon fishery, then I submit the Federal Government would have better results. Finally, Mr. Speaker, 1 would like to refer to another resource of our province which has not been normally considered to be a resource but which should be. There is a danger that we will overlook it whenever we list the potential of our province. Mr.

Speaker, I say that this resource lies in the spirit of our people, in the attitudes of our people, in the mind of our people. Newfoundland is a small province but we only have to look through history at what some of the smaller countries of the world have done.

We only have to look at the Greeks, the Romans, the Spanish, the Portuguese, the Swiss for that matter, to see that to a great extent where a country goes or I submit where a province goes, depends not so much on material wealth(and we have great material wealth)but it depends to a great extent as well on the attitude of the people, on the minds of the people, on the spirit 588

May 2, 1972 Tape No. 219 NC - 2 MR. BARRY: of a country or a province. Here I have to get into what has been referred to by the hon. Minister of Fisheries in his speech and I believe by the hon, member for St. .Tohn's South.

There is a danger in Newfo1mdland .of our people losing their initiative, There is a danger in Newfoundland of our people becoming accustomed to the government providing for them,and there is nothing wrong with the government providing but there is something wrong with a government which provides nothing but money, welfare, social assistance and does not provide opportunity, Now you would have your completely conservative with a small "c" economist, and you would have,! suppose, many people who purport to he economist but do not know what they are talking about, sayinJ?: ''No production no participation in benefits, if you do not work you are not entitled to insist upon being paid, receiving the benefits of your province," Now, Mr.

Speaker, I cannot go along with this completely, Today in Canada when we have a situation where a government such as our federal government, when a government can decide that it will bring in economic policies that will have the effect of decreasing employment, it will have the effect of putting a certain number of men out of work, then I do not think that we have to put these men, these men who were put out of work, in a position of saying;' Well, I am not working so I do not deserve very much, I am not working and there is something wrong with me but I am coming with cap in hand, I am coming begging for enough to keep body and soul together, enough to feed and clothe my children, my wife and my family," Now I say that these individuals do not have to come cap in hand.

They do not have to feel that there is something wrong with them because they are not working or because they are put in a position where they have to come to the government and say; "I need assistance," because it is the government's fault . - hopefully not this government but recently it was the Federal Government's direct policies which in effect caused a lot of these people to be out of jobs Why should an individual when he has no control over 589

May 2, 1972 Tape No. 219 NC - 3 MR. BARRY: whether he works or not, why should he have to bear a stigma then because he is unemployed? Unfortunately, I think that in Newfoundland, as in many other places in Canada, there still is a stigma attached to people who are unemployed. Now it is one thing, Mr. Speaker, to say there is a danger of our people losing their initiative, There is a danger, but there is also, Mr.

Speaker, a danger of government going too far the other way and saying we are not going to step in and help the people who either because of misfortune, sickness, illness, inability to acquire the proper skills or education, There is one thing for them to say there is a danger of losing initiative, there is another thing for the government to say we are not going to help these people and grant them the opportunity co share in the riches of our province and of our country.

Today in Newfoundland and in ·Canada generally, we do not say every man for himself and the state will not look after those who are not able to look after themselves, We say, Mr. Speaker, and we have set as our values that every person in Newfoundland and every person in Canada is entitled to a certain minimum security. He is entitled to enough to eat, a place to live, education for himself and his children to enable them to share in the economy of our province. But in the past, Mr. Speaker, and this has I think only been over the last few years, in the past there has been an atmosphere developec.

There has been an atmosphere developed which sets out and creates situations where it is better for people not to work. They will gain . more money, for example, as one of the hon. members has already mentioned in his speech, they would gain more money by not working than if they took a job for $ 1. 85 an hour. 590

May 2, 1972 Tape no. 220 Pagel - mrw Now who am I to say or who are the other hon. members to say that this person is doing something wrong when he says: ''Why should I go down and work in this fish plant, stand up to my knees in cold water, work eight, ten, twelve, fourteen hours a day, when I could stay home and be just as far ahead? Now I for one am not prepared to say that that person is making an immoral decision by saying if the government will give me enough money or as much money as I would make working, why work? This is the problem. Mr.

Speaker, I feel that one solution and a solution which I have to endorse and recommend to this problem is the negative income tax, the guaranteed minimum annual wage. This proposal has been criticized. It has been criticized because the federal government have said that we cannot afford it. I think that our government, Mr.

Speaker, should look into this very closely and should do everything possible to see that this is brought about for Canada, Unless our province and other provinces· join tltei.r voices together to put pressure on Ottawa, there is a danger that this will not be brought about, The only criticism that I can see having any merit against this proposal is the criticism that if we bring in the negative income tax, it is going to mean that everybody in the long run is going to be worst off. Now I do not accept this.

I do not think that this has been shown to be the case, I do not think that you have too many economists who will come out and say that we can irrefutably show that our country or our province will be worst off in the long run if we bring in a negative income tax. Mr.

Speaker, I submit that reliance on the time-worn cliche such as: We have to be aware of the dangers of socialism or we have to rely on the free enterprise system which has shown to be so good in the past_ there is a lot of truth and a let of merit in these suggestions and I for one will go on the record as supporting the free enterprise system, but not completely and not without qualification, The free enterprise system really-when we just say that we are for thP. free enterprise system, it is like saying that we are for motherhood except saying that we are for motherhood, 591

May 2, 1972 Tape no . 220 Page 2 Mr. Barry we are being a little more specific . We can be for a free enterprise system and st ill be for a certain minimum security.

We can still be fo r government policies which will provide a minimum i;ecuritv for oll our citizens; a minimum securitv which wi.11 encourage all our c:lt.izens to ~o and find work, if it is available. [n the evenl that it is not available, whether it is because the ~overnmenL have decided that it must bring in tight - money policies and decrease the number of iobs or whether it be because industry has said that we can make more monev if we automate and lav-off employees or for any other reason, if people are laid-off and cannot find work, then r think there is nothin~ wron~ or I see nothin~ wronr. with saying that they are still entitled co a decent,respectable livin~ if this can be ~iven to chem by our government .

I think it can.

May 2, 1972 Tape 221 MR. BARRY: I think that Newfound] and and Canada have the resources with proper planning to see that every single one of our citizens get this minimum security. Mr. Speaker, this is where I stand, this is what I feel our government should try and achieve over the next few years. In the past there has not been enough planninir anrl therefore it has heen nerhaps perfectly correct to sav we cannot afford to get a greater sharing of the resources of our province or of our country. Granted,maybe we could not because we were pouring money down the drain on madcap schemes but, ~r.

Speaker, if we plan, if we see that the most is gotten out of every dollar that is invested in our province,whether it be by government or by private individuals,we do have the resources to ensure that there is a certain minimum level of security given to all our citizens. As long, Mr. Speaker, as we, the government, remain responsive to the neonle of Newfoundlanrl,as lonp; as we rem;iin resnonsive to the values of the people of Newfoundland,we are going to see how to go about this distribution of income, we are P;oing to see how to go about encouraginp. the people to participate in the economy.

The other day, one of the first letters that I had since being elected was a letter from a man who had been relocated. resettled. He said that he had never been unemployed in his ~ife. Ile had been resettled three years ago. He has eight children. He was not hungry. He had a roof over his head but he was sick and tired of being on welfare and he wanted to find a ;ob and he had been looking for a job for three years and could not find one. .JM - 1 Now, Mr.

Speaker, I say and I believe that most people who are now receiving assistance from the government want to work arid would-work if given the orportunity and that many peoi:,le who are now receivinp. 593

May 2, 1972 't'ape 221 JM - 2 MR. 'BARRY: assistance are not workinp, because the previous government. previous administration,rlid not enga~e in the kind of nlanning, did not get down and find out what it was that the neople wanted. Mr. Sneaker, if this government does nothing else but remain responsive to the needs of the oeople,it will go a long wav to ensure that this province remains one of the better nlaces to Jive in Canada. Thank you! MR. SPEAKER: ·- --·- -- ---- MR. WINSOR: The Chair recol"!nizes the honoun1ble !'!ember for Fogo. t-!r.

Speaker. in risinp: to speak i.n the Address in Reply T finrl it a bit ;iwkward sittinr- on this side of tbe House. For a r-reat number of years I s;it on th;it side and I viewed and studied the exnrPssions anrl character of the former speakers hanping on the walls of this assembly. This has been mv first time to sit and view and s tmly the expressions on the former sneakers on that sine of the House ;ind it h1ts been a hit awkward as I said. There is one re,wardinp thini:-: nhout ii- thnugh,that T am sitting as a member of the )!re:itest number of elected members to any one partv as Her M,1iestv's ornosition.

This is the greatest number nf Tl'embers that we have had since Confecleration sittim~ on this side of the House. Nnw some may say, "1'ell last ve:ir and the yertr before you hr1c! ten over here. Yes, there werP ten here all riP.ht hut they were converts and fellows narr1dinr hack and forth but to be elected from one narty this is the greatest number I think since Confederation, anrl that is something to be proud of. Mr. Sneaker, T would like. to take advantage of this to conrratulate yc,u, Sir, on beinr elected to the high office of Speaker of this House.

Your off ice carries with it a high degree of responsibility particul ari ly as it relates to the decortnn, dignitv of debate and impartiality in 594

Mav 2, 1972 Tape 221 .rn - 3 ~IR. WIN~OR: vour jurl~ement and decisions . I trust that you 1~ill not find yoursel f in any awkward positions and that the challen,:.,es to your rulinits will be few and infrequent. I extend mv con~ratuJ11tions to the Premier and the government on bein~ elected with a sizeable mai oritv.

In rloin~ so 1 would remind thci House, however , that events lead in? un to the victorv led to some unprecedented procecurE>s wherein the hil?h office of the Lieutenant <'..overnor was use<1 to h r in~ t c, the electorate of this nrovince in E'Ssence what waii a camp.:iil'!.n ruini fes t o, for nothin .ir is More cer t aln than the novernment knew full welt at the t1me th11t that speech was being rea cl on )la rch 1 that the Governor would he r.alled upon to di.s olve that s ession which had inst bel!un. I repeat 5S5

Mav 2, 1972. Ta11e 222 Pa1;e 1. Mr. Speaker, that such events are unprecedented in our historv. In our democraticallv organized form of gave rnment, the ro] e of the Opposition should at all times he one of ma·;or imnortance. That is wh>' it is very essential that the Onposition Leader shnuld be a man of out stand:! ng ;ihil i ty. 1 am sure the Honse recor;nizes that our neF leader stands readv tn share th'<' res · onsibilitv for the challenve that lies ahead of us all and to provide good and effective government.

I extend conRratulations to onr leader. 1 would also like to join,"r. ~ne;:iJ.:i,~, with nrevious spe;ikers in congratulatjnp, the honourahle memher for Trinitv North and the honour­ ablf> member for Labrador !,est, for m ving and secondinr- the Address in Renly. Both honourable gentlemen made a p;ood impression. All the more so since it was tbei r first and maiclen speech -, Now, }Ir, Sneaker, while T am in the congratulatorv spirit I woulc' like to ccmr-ratulate the honourable memher for Hermitage. The son of the late J .T Cheeseman, a lonp, time minister of Fisheries of the prevjous admi.nistrat1c-.n.

The late >-fr. Cheeseman recommended and arnroved man;v of the policies that were acted unon in the best interest of the fi shE>rmen nf this nrovincE'. I feel a particular association here, of course. hecause l occupied that office and hnd the opportunity to expand and imnrove upon some of the policies of the honourable member's late father. I did not agree in.some of the remarks he made in his speech yesterday afternoon, when he was clealinp, with the matter of centralf ation. Because Mr. f;peaker, \-:e of the former administraticin were criticized for the centralization plan.

The impression was spread by the o r,posi tion then that it was the government who were forcin!? neople from their original settlements to other communities in Newfoundland. Now, Sir, that :i.s not correct. The government did at no time force people to move from one settlement to the other. There had to he a desire, i. f not of the ma_;ori ty of People certainly of a vast number of people from any one commun:lty in order that the government approve 5 !i 6

!ay 2, )")72. Tape 222 Par,e 2. assi1itance -cir thPm to move . Recau :;,e, Sir, i.n snme j nstances it would e inhuman not to provide assistance fnr the t"ei::ettlement nrogramme . "1r . Soeaker I would not mii::s the OP!'Ortuni ry ;in extendinia r.ongra tulat i ons to another ne, memher, the son of a f ormer mi.ni ster of the 'lrevious acimi.nistratton . He, of course. is the son of the Honourable Pr . ~owe, ~eoat .or Rowe no, -:. J refer o f course to the honour at-le member for ~t . R;irbe Not:th. rt mav be difficult for an:-,, nne Rnn to comnensate the llnuse fn, the lm=s of nr.

Rowe hut he made douh 1 v sure that he woulil have two sons herP.. Sc, he tween them I Rm certajn that they wlll enunl some of the outstandin ~ contrihution!'l of their father who as an educator and a statesman gRve ti:> this nrov:ince. leade ·shin of a hit'h c: uality and a serv1cP thbt ~•ill h~ hard to mRtch. "'r. ~""'-'"'ker, T have had the rivile,e of hailrin no less than ei~hteen sneeches from the Throne.

T must con fess, however, 1:.hat never have J heard one that was ,;o full of nr<>mises for the Prnmi sec\ Land, as ,•as the late$t ~ ht ch w:is n c,nf ·I rma ticm of the one i.•hi ch :•;i.c; r ··acl on 'IRrch l . T would have thou )?ht th;,. the r-overnment in vie of its criticism <>f the previous adminjstration would have heen more 5§7

May 3, 1972 Tape No. 223 NC - 1 more realistic and would have confined its promises to what would b~ possible rather than to hope for the creation of a Utopia. From my experienc~,Mr. Speaker, I would predict that bringing to fruition. of even a small portion of the promises made will bring chis province to the brink of bankruptcy.

Now bankruptcy is not uncommon to be heard from the opposition, especially from the Minister of Finance, I am sorry he is not in his seat and I agree with the hon. rr,cmber for Bonavista North who stole my thunder last night, that the hon. minister, when he was in opposition he was going around crying and preaching that this province was in a bankrupt condition and yet •.• MR, EARl.~ I think if the hon. gentleman will yield for a moment, if he were to check Hansard for the proceedings to ~hich he refers, at no time did I state that the province was insolvent. I said it was headed for insolvency. MR, WINSOR: Mr.

Speaker, I trust the hon, member for Fortune is not getting a little touchy. I was not referring to him, I was referring to the Minister of Finance, not the previous Minister of Finance, AN HON. GENTLEMAN: Maybe he should be Minister of Finance if he wants to be Minister of Finance. MR. WINSOR: That may come. I do not know. But it ls peculiar, Mr. Speaker, to hear a Minister of Finance crying "bankruptcy': "despair" and going off to New York, London and having no problem, no problems whatsoever raising money on the credit of this province.

Now in order to get credit we all realize that the credit of the province must be in good standing. No people would advance or give loans to a province that is heading for bankruptcy, What does that indicate? Does it not indicate that the previous administration had done a good job with the financing of this province7 Of course, that is the only

interpretation you can put upon that kind of way to raise money. Never have a government found itself in a more favourable position, 598

May 3, 1972 Tape No. 223 NC - 2 MR._ WINSOl: for notwithstanding the often bitter and unwarranted attacks on the previous administration and especially its former Pre111ier, Mr.

Smallwood, even its strongest critics must admit that the foundation and structure of both government and policy were well and truly laid, Mr, Speaker, •gain notwithstanding some of the obviou_s weaknesses and justifiable c::.ri:ticism, we cannot ignore th_e fact that n.eutral and un­ involved observers hav.e paid tmsolicited tribute .to the outstan :ding achieve111ents that have taken place in this province, especially_in the fields of education, roads, health, towns, community growth and others too numerous to mention. and 1 may_ add social services. 559

May 2, 1972 Tape no. 224 Pagel - MRW Mr. Winsor. : n spite of whatever mav be said of the previous administration, it must be admitted that the Liberal Government, under the leadership of the former Premier, Mr. Smallwood, brought this province from the state of almost abject provertv to a position where but a few years ago it would have thought to be impossjble. I wish to emphasize that wjth the foundation on which to build , 1 trust that the government will not get carried away with the idea of trying to bring about change just. for the sake of chanr,e.

In this conn~ct1on, I would strongly urge this government to consider its policies in terms of what is good for the province rather than in terms of pure politics. Mr. Speaker, I have some concern. Since the Speech from the Throne was absolutely a nolitical manifesto, this leads me to another poi.nt which I wish to emphasize and that i:J: It is my sincere hope that the. government in its wisdom will demonstrate complete and unqualified impartialities in bringinJI; about or the implementation of its vario,. s programmes. Now, Mr.

Speaker, at this stage of the game, of the government's life, as the opposition we naturally find ourselves in a position where we can onlv wait and see. It is certainly very difficult to probe into actions that have not been taken. We will, however, be on the alert. We sha.ll consider it our duty to be critical and hopeful but not vindictive. We shall consider it our duty to criticize when it is duly warranted. We shall judge the jl;overnment by its action and the government can rest assured that the people of this province will do likewise. Mr.

Speaker, the Speech from the Throne gives the member latitude to deal with some of the problems pertaining to the district which he represents. At this time I would like to bring to the attenti im of the House one or two, perhaps three of the problems which face the Fo~o District. 6GO

~lay 2, 1972 Mr . Wi 1sor. Tape no . 234 Paie 2 The District of Fogo is largely a fishin~ district, especial l y on Fogo Island itself . lam sure that the hon. member for Fortun e realizes that - AN HON . MDIBF.R: 'Fortune Bay . MR . WINSOR: l am sur e that the hon. member for Fortune Bay realizes t his, of cou rse,mo r e so than any other member here . l h~e oft en wonde red why tlie hon. $!entleman did not offer himself as a candidate in hi s home dist r ict . 661

l~y 2, 1972 Tape 225 PK - l ' ·TR. 'vINSOR: the family is verv well known there for years, in business and for this reason I would have thought that the honourahle memher for Fortune Bay would have been much happier running in that distri c:t than ur in sorie other strange area with which he was not so familiar. For the past several years, "r. Speaker, Fogo Island was one of the few places in the province that appeared to he headed for doom, economic doom.

Such however vas not the case and through the undaunted efforts of a group of people working throur-h the : ;-operative ."ovement, local 'r1p,·,,vement committees or development committees and the Town Coun,•il of Fogo ne~• life has been iniected into the vart,us communities. Hhat appearer! to he .L certain-doom community has now turned into an area which have hecorr,e almost self-supporting and reliant. r am sure, ~•r. Speaker, that the area can hecome more prosperous if the government,through the nepartment of Fisheries,will gjve it the needed encourap.;emPnt.

There is an urgent and critical need for a fish rrocessi.n~ plant on Fogo Island itself. nuring my term of office as Minister of Fisheries J arr~ ged for a feasthility study to he made to ascertain ~hether it is economically feasible for such a plant. 1 bacl this i;tudy undertaken while we 1,.Tere t-raitinp, the decision of DP-F.F. who were p,oinr to carry out a similar study. Tam very happy now that DRF.E has started this study and I hone a favourable report wi.11 he forthcmr.:lng. ~1,ould this he so, i'r.

Sneaker T urge the rovernment to proceed as quid~ly as oossihle to estahl~sh a fresh fish rrocessin~ plant on Fogo Island. In hrief, Sir, the fishermen of Fogo Island are not reaping even near the reward and the henefits of the their lahour. IHth the exception of cod. all other species of fish have to he exported from Joe Batt' s Arm to f:l.sh plants in Trinity and Conception Bayi:;. All of the lahour which is going to those plants, ~ir. c,hould he injected into the er:onomv on FoJ:!:o Island. If this plant can he accomplished, Sir, the economy of Fogo Island I am sure will he 602

May 2, 1972 Tape 225 PK - 2 MR . WINSOR· very 111uch inoroved . Now, S:ir . the same t hing could take place at Chanr:e Islands hut I am not ad vocat ing that the t yoe of plant needed on Chan.Re Islands is one simil ar to the one ~•hich mi µh t be renuir ed on Fo)!.o Island. nut. again, ~·hile I was Minis ter of Fisheries I arr nnged for the fish plant there to be upp.raded and an i ce-makin.R l'lachine ordered in order that t he fisherme n may hring in all the fish t hey catch, all species,and keep it in a J!.ood cond itio n unt il some fish olan t operator can t ake it away .

So I w,,uld stron.RlY ur,Re the Minister of Fisheries t o give this matter some urgent consideration. I have hea rd that there is a companv l••ho i !I wilHnp to p..o to Chan)!.e Islands and improve upon the f acilities that are there and perhaps provide a cuttin p machine. !-low if this is done, of course, it will ·-·ean a great deal to the economy of Ch'.1••ce Tslands. 6u3

Hay 2. 1972 Tape 22,:; JM - 1 MR. WPISOR: ·--·----- and I sincerelv hope that this can he arranged. Fogo Tsland, itse.l~. Mr. Sneaker. on Fogo Island itself at ~hoal ~ay there is a small boat ouildi11g s1 ,ipyard a11d it is one of the best small boat shipyards in the rrovince employing r.iore than twentv-five r.ien c,mstructing longliners. Last year Fogo Tsland was cl"signated for a slinwav anc again while T was Minister of Fisheries T arranped to have that slipwav com1tructed. As far as I know i.t is near comnl~tion bv now if not it will be very, very soon.

This sl inway in ,:-on;u:1ction with the shipyard will be a very convenient anrl good service to the l onpli ner onerators because the lonp.l i ner oneratr,r can hrin7 his hont in. haul it ashore, ei.ther do the ;oh or repairs h imse.1 f or he can have the sbin•Ti.<'hts of the shinvard r:irry it out for him. Whichever wav he decides to do it ,it wil 1 nean Jess 1 oss of time ancl wiJ.1 he ah 1 e to provide more effective repairs ancl overhaul. This shipvarcl, Mr. Speaker, can extend to longlinrr fishermen beyond 1"ogo Tslan<l.

Tt can extend to ehanr.e Island anrl perhaps as f Ar away as Twi l li ni!ate because there is no surh shiovard or s Ii nw;w in that area, to my knowl erlge. So, Mr.

Speaker, T would strnnplv urge thc> i;!OVernment to iniect whatever financial assistance it r.an Into eettin~ this fishnlant for Fo~o Is]and into operation because, Sir. there are millions and millions of pounds of fish and T may add when the lonj!'.liner man comes in to Joe Jlatts Arm he is unable tn take his fish to the plant and it has to be pron17ed on hoard some carrier and durinp; the hot summer days that fish is not in verv ~ood condition when it reaches the plant. I would hate to think of the condition it is in by the time it gets to the market.

So , Sir. if we are to encourage our fishermen, if we arc interested in providin11; to the rnarkets of the wor]d a good Qualitv of 6 f,4

May 2, 1972 Tape ~26 JM - 2 MR. (HNSOR: fish then we must do all we can and this chall~nre lies with the Department of Fisheries to see to it that nothin$? hut A-1 products ~o to t he t:tarket hecause, Sir, if not.as sure as the night follows day,we will lose the market for our fish . Jt i::; entirely uo to the fishernen and I would say a lot of the responsibility rests with the Department of Fisherie::;. Mr. Soe11ker. there is also a vreat neerl for the il'lmediate attention !u:a system to nrovide pure,good drinkin~ water to l'lany of the cormnunicie::; in Fo~o nistrict .

With the exception of two or three communities or towns , Hus~rave llarbour, Lumsden and Foi?o, there is no p.ood snoply of dr inkinp. water. lt is becomin11 a irrave concern to all of the peonle esnecially at Joe B11tts Arm. Horwood, ~ain ~oint and! could name several where this problem of drinkinSt water is - it is alaminr, it is becominr so now that the women are afr aid,durin~ the summer months esnecially, to drink their water without boilinc it. This con~ition, Mr. Speaker, I do not think should be allowed to go on much lonper hecause 6(,5

May 2, 1972 Tape no. 227 Page 1 - MRW if it does, then the Department of Public Health will have a grave responsibility on their hands because for sure there will be some epidemic of one kind or another break out. It was only the othe.r day that I presented a petition from Noggin Cove requesting this sort of supply of water, I say now as I said then that ninety per cent or more of the Communities of Fop.o Island are in the same position. I would say, Hr. Speaker, that if the government are thinking of priorities, then I would strongly urge this request be included at the tope of the list. Mr.

Speaker, a few years ago when the previous administration connected settlements in Newfu1.;11Jland bv road, it was a great blessing. It broke the curse of isolation ~iving our people the opportunity to move freelv from one area to another. However, today those same roads are causing somet .imes indescribable inconvenJ cmces because of the intensity of traffic and a choking dust problem. 1 understand, at a public meeting held by the Progressive Conservative Party during the campaign at Musgrave, statements were attributed to the hon.

Minister of Municipal Affairs (I am s r rry he is not here to defend this) but nevertheless I think bv the rennrt which I got, it Is pretty accurate. AN HON • MEMBER: Sh Qebody set fj re to the hall. MR. WINSOR: No, that was in October. He promised the people of that area that all roads would be paved . 1 do not know whether he w,mt so far as to say that this would be done this year but certainly within the scope of two or three years. Now, Mr.

Speaker, I am not that. naive to think that the government can pave all the roads, through all the communities or all the roads bctwcr.n Gander and Gander Bay and beyond and as far as Wesleyville in one year. But I would strongly sug~est t~ the government that while we are awaiting for most of the communities to get this pavement, that the Minister of Highways would arrange to at least 6 G H

May 2, 1972 Tape no. 227 Page 2 Mr. ~insor. have the streets oiled in order that people may be able to breathe a decent breath of fresh air. So, Mr. Speaker, this is another very serious problem and it exists especially in the Carmi.lnville area where all of the traffic to and fro from Fogo Island must pass through. It would indeed be d;fficult to describe the hardship that these people have to undergo especially during the dry w~ather.

It would be natural, Mr, Speaker, to assume with a road having been built and constructed by the previous administration now the least that this government can do is carry on with the paving. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to note in the Speech from the Throne reference. to the setting up of recreational facilities. Many communities have made a commendable beginning in the Fogo District throup,h the winter-works programme. However, it is only a beginning .. ecause many of the pro_iects are unable to be completed because of lack of !·unds.

Hopefully, this problem will now be overcome through the government's intended programme and there is certainly an obvious need for new and better recreational facilities all through the Fogo District as I would assume it applies to most other districts in the province. I would urge upon the minister concerned to make a thorough survey of this area and to give it roost sympathetic concern, consideration and positive action. Mr. Speaker, I was pleased to note the reference in the Throne Speech dealing with tourism. 607

May 2, 1972 Tape No. 228 NC - l Now Sir, between Gander and the Causeway Motel there is no place that a person can get a cup of tea in a public place in that area except in Clarenville. So I would like to see at least one tourist establishment established between Gander and Gander Bay because Sir it is a source of attraction there 1 the Gander River,and quite a few tourists come into the province and they find they have to go to Gander River to fish and late in the evening they have to return and most of them drive hack to Gander for accommodation.

So Sir, if we are going to encourage the tourist industry, we must in turn encourage private enterprise and this I think is in line with the thinking of the member who just spoke before me, the hon. member for Placentia West and I think the hon. member for Hermitage. If we are going to encourage private enterprise then we have to be prepared. We have to be prepared to assist them financially, because Sir, no other way, in no other way will private enterprise get into this venture. Now, Mr. Speaker, I do not intend to take up any more time of this hon.

House because I understand there are other members on the other side who wt~uld like to speak and this may be the last chance to have the opportunity to speak on the Address In Reply, But I would like, Sir, before closing to express to the people of Fogo District my sincere thanks and appreciation for giving me the honour to represent them in this Legislature. I trust that I will justify their confidence, I believe that all of us here,as representatives in the Legislature, recognize that we have volunteered to undertake a most difficult task.

We are responsible for the creation of good, wise and just legislation and to reflect what we believe the people.may want of their government. We recognize,to possess the confidence of the majority of voters is indeed an honour. I trust that we shall all live up to that expectation. MR. EARLE: Mr. Speaker, it had not been my intention to speak in this Address but some of the remarks of the recent speakers nave reached me to

May 2, 1972 Tape No. 228 NC - 2 MR. EARLE: the point that I think that the wrong impression can no longer be left to this House on certain things which have been said. May I 609

Hay Z, 1972 Tape 229 PK - 1 Fi~Ht of all, Mr. Speaker, I would like to con~ratulate vou on your elevation to the very high and responsihle position which you hol ," and also to the mover and seconder of this Address in R4!'ply who gave r utst ndinp; Apeeches the like of which I do not think have been heard in this House for many years, the quality of these speeches.

Mr. ~peaker_ reference haR heen made particular] v in the last speech of the honourable the member for Foro to the finance condition of the provi.nce and it was insinuated of course that the honourahle t!inister of Finance and to some degree myself,when T held that positi.on 1,1ith the 1.iheral r.overnment , did say that the Province of Newfoundland was bankrupt. The record will show that I never said any such thinp.

T did say that the Province of 1\/ewfoundland was headed in the . wrong d1rection and T contend, Hr. ~peaker, that if there had not heen a d1anp.e of administration in thi!I recent election WP. would have seen that very, very clearly indeed. As~ matter of fact, the very fact that the previous government, as the ~inister of Finance revealed, financed la!lt year on short term loans to the extent .that this r-overnmPnt had to p;o ou~ immediately and horrow $gs million to cover up the «hort -term loans ~y lonr: term-horr01,,ing , sho ··.:s on what a sticky-wicket that government was operating.

It was impossihle for them to carry on other than by day to day loans and they had to p:ive the Javelin Corr,oration f:frst Priority in ' their horrowings to horr01,•inp: their by bar themRelves from ROing f.nto the market at a time ,~hen they should ~ave heen coverin~ their own commitments, This speaks for itself. It is also qui.te evident, Mr. Speaker, that if one looks over the rates of borrowinps over the last year or !lo and the interest which had to he pald on these ho·rrowings whereby this province iii Payinp, at a rate higher than practically any other province of CanadP-.

This hrinp:s in the 'luestion of the late Liberal Government as to how free and easy their l'iorrowinps were. when they h!(d to go to the market and borrow at premium 1,ates in order to l'.'1d ."'e the 610

Hay 2, 1972 Tape 229 PK - 2 I:~_-_l:A_RLE': finances of this province. J think that disr,oses of some of the comments of the last mernher. tlow there was reference directly made to me by the member for flonavista North and the recent speaker, the honourahle the member for Fogo. The question ,,,as asked why I, hearing the name that I do bear,did not seek to represent the District of Fogo. I should like to aa.swer that very clearly.

Actually when I was in the Liheral 1-'overnment I was persuaded by the late Premier to run in Fortune Ray, because Fortune Bay was considered to be such a stronp: Liberal District that there vas no problem for a newcomer to win. l went there in 196?., I won hands down. I was elected hy acclamation for the l,iherals in the 1966 election. I went hack in force and was defea~.ed by a small margin in October of last year. But that \•'as a very strong Liheral District, an extremely strong Liberal Dist~ict.

I am not the type of person that backs away from a challenge. l went hack and won that district, of which I am very proud. I am convinced that Fogo,where J was horn and which I left incidentally \,,hen I was two years ol<l. I did not use the tactics of some of those who tried to get elected to the Li.beral Party by going back and saying tha·t I was born i.n such and s:uch a place. That makes vety little difference, Mr. Sp,?aker, it is what you have done for the r,lace that counts.It is what you have managed to clo in spite of the lack of co-operation from the party with which you worked that counts.

That record speaks for itself because the goocl people of Fortune nay returnee! me and I am very proud and honoured that they did so, Mr. ~peaker, there are other speakers on this side who want to carry on and with their consent I have just stepped into the gap for a Jlloment because I wanted to make these few remarks. But today in the House, Sir, there was a petition presented for the strengthenin r or increase of power at Hopedale for a televisi.on antenna or 1',,r 611

May 2, 1972 Tape 229 PR - ) i!R. F.APLE: a television reception rather. I would just like to refer to what the Liberals did ln Fortune nay during the last election. In the Tm,m of Ter:rencevi lle there was a pror.ise of a televison antenna, This 1ras in honour of a promise made by the ferleral member in the 19/i7 election. Two weeks before the election a black pole was carried down an erected on the hill and the people were told that they were ,•oinr, to get their television antenna, which swung nuite a lot of votes in that settlement. fts a matter of fact, many neonle sai<l co me. ,·~•r.

Earle. 1,,e are voting for the pole on the hill, we are not votjnp. for you. r!ow the fact was, 11r. Speaker, and this is rather amusing that that televison antenna or pronose<l antenna was nut on the hill in Terrenceville c,ne month and on<' week before an apnlication ever went forward to Ottawa for the licence to h~ve that antenna there. fhis is the sort of tactics _,,tdch clisp.u;,t,·d the people of Fortune Flay. A'lf Hm!. 1-!f.tiP.lm: You put it i.n ,as far as T am concerned. ····----- - ,1p.. EARLE· '.!'he anpl i r.ation •·ms nut in hy station C.TOX, ,\N HON. lof.!mER: 'llL Fi\P.LF.: CJml, J. am sorrv.

This was done :In a very divious -·- ·-- man.Her \thich J ,:,mnot take the time to explain at th1s tjme. 1\N HON. MEHflEP.: [naudihle. 'lR. fiARLE: Eowever, Pr. Sr,1?.aker, in spite of the interruptions, T ,,1ould jugt 1 i h, to point out,., , · e of the tactics of the former <•overnrnent ohviou,;ly have not raid off. l'R. NEARY· "ffi. F.ARLf.• l,.fhr1t about na:r de Verde? I do not !mm-• anyth:lnf! about Ray de Verde. I will alloP the honourable memher to explain that. fint this is only a minor thinP, in passln_p. Mr.

Speaker. the problems this Rovernment face, in spite of all of the difficulties it has han to ptck up, is to develop our resource-hase industries. 'lo•·• this is a hig nhrase. It sounds good. But it will take an awful lot of 612

May 2. 1972 Ta1>e 229 PK - 4 ~!_R. f.ARLF;.:. doin~ and it is only through the re-operation of our peonle all over t he island,their dP.sire to work instead of accept ,·elfare, their desire to add to the prospP.rity of ?'lewfoundl;md. their dei::i re to do ~ood joss , it 'i:: only !,y co-operatj .on of this ~overnmPnt µ-jth tts people all over the nrovince in Newfoundland and in the J.abrador 1>ection that this can he hrou~ht about.

The •·:hole policy of the ~peed1 from the Throne in this se.ssion is seekin~. is askinr for and in a sense demandinr the co-oneratton of our people. '•'i ch that we can i;ucceed. l·)ithout the co-operation of our peo1>le Newfotmdland fails. But "lewfoundla nd will not fail. l'e have the industries, we have t he resource~ and with the str air,htforward honest and sincere effort to develop these resources Newfoundland will pr osper . Than k you, Mr . ~peaker! ~1R SPF:AY.F.R: The Chair recos>nizes the hon. mer,,ber for Placentia East. --- --- 613

May 2, 1972 Tape No, 230 NC - 1 MR. AYLWARD (!_~J_:l__!_ Mr. Speaker, 1 would like to associate myself with the remarks of the previous speakers in extending to you my sincere congratulations on your re-election to the position of Speaker of this honourable House. You,Sir, follow in the footsteps of some great Newfoundlander~ who adorn the walls of thls Assembly and I have no doubt that you will discharge your duty with great fairness and impartiality which is really the key marks of a man who holds the pos-ition which you hold in this Legislature.

I feel also, Sir, that you are priviledged in having such an experienced staff assist you and I know with the advice and assistance of these men of exoerience and with your own direction we have no doubt that this honot ,rah1e House is 1n extremely good hands. I would also like to associate mvself with the remarks of the other speakers in congratulatir~g the hon. member for Labrador West who moved that a ommittee be appointed to draft an Add!'ess Tn Reply to the gracious Speech. I am sure, Mr.

Sp~aker, that the visitors, dlst.inquished visitors who vere here on opening day as well as every member of this honourable House, were very, very pleased to see that Labrador was so well represented by this honourable gentleman and I feel certain that we on the Island of Newfoundland, who may at times have had some concern about the future of Labrador, have no cause for great concern as long as we have men with ideas such as these expressed by that hon. gentleman. All he wanted for Labrador West, Mr.

Speaker, I respectfully submit, is what each and every one of us want for our districts and that is a fair and a square deal,and of course no hon. gentleman would deny that member or indeed any member to that treatment. his right But I suppose during the last year,with the emergence of a new political party in Labrador, many Newfoundlanders asked themselves the question - what really political significance that would have for our 614

May 2, 1972 Tape No. 230 NC - 2 MR. AYLWARD: province. I recal l myself, Mr. Speaker, hearin g some hon . Aentl eman speak in this House on pre vious occasions and predict that some day that great district may be represen ted by a French Canad ian in thi s House. Some Newfoundlanders even tho ught,wh en Mr. Rousseau ran,that he was a French Canadian. Not t ha t I have anythini against French Canadians , Mr. Speaker, but 615

'lav 2, 1 ri 72. Tone 211 Page 1, this element of Renaratism certainly 0cc.urred t0 very, verv many thoughtful Newfoundlanders. To see the success of the memher for Labrador I-lest in that district then to hear him' come here and give us his clear views, to tell the peonle of this nrovince that all he wanted for Lahrad0r iR as T Rai.d before i.s what we want for 0ur districts a •air and s~uare deal, nrenar ·d to coonerate with. that T am sure we are all am not detracting,'-'r.

Sne;iker, from the other tw,:, g.·ntlemen who re present the other t~o djstricts in Labrador, I feel certain that as long as thev nostulate the view!'l nostulated hv these t,-ro r-entlemen that Ne,.,fnundlnnclers and indef'd all the people of Lahrador will he verv,verv pleaserl and !'latisficd with them. Gf'or,ranhv wr> know iii tates that Lahradnr iR a part of the mainland of Canad;i.

But we mnst do evervthing in our nower to identifv ourselveR with the peonle of J.ahrador ancl make the people 0f Lahrad,1r rea Ii ze that thev are certRinlv not second clasR ~ew­ foundlanders, that they have everv ri ~ht to expect and demand from government the same treatment that the peon] e of this island demand and receive, I was also, ~r. Speaker, very,verv imnressed with the remarks of the honourahle memrer for Trinit?

North and I feel certain that ~dth his exnerience in the field of education he will make a great cnntrihution to the debate,; that will come before. t)1is lep.islature and to all the iS!'llH'S ,.,1,i, h indeed wiJ. l face the province particularly in the field of e.'11cation. Now, Mr. Sneaker, -, suppose like al 1 memhers elected for the first time, indeed J s1ll'pose all me1:1r-ers re-elected, T share the same emotions of pride as havinp heen elected to represent a di!'ltrict.

I am more than pleased to represent this ancient and hi~toric district of Placentia, AR I am sure all members pf this Honourable House know at one ttm1: Placentia, when this isl and had two ~apitals Placentia 616

•·•av 2, 1972. Tane 231 T'age 2. w:H; the French (:anital of the island. Thank !leavens that thP memter for Place-ntia is no looper reaui red to 1-e M Ji ngual, ~•r. !-ne11ker. P.ut Placentia District is a ~reat district ancl ~a~ nroduced some fin~ men and Pomen. 1'hey have marle a great contrlhut'ion to the l'ublic life of thii; nrnvince and in particuJor to the reUp,in11s life of the province, The nistrict of Placentia East and in particular Placentia area has oroduceci some rreat reli1dnus men :tnd \,:omen who h11ve macle an excellent cC1ntrihution to the ecclesiastical on<l litur~i, .al life nf the nrovince . lie are aJ l indehted co t hem . 617

~fav 2. 1972 T;ine 232 MR. AYLWARD: tam more than pleased that my maternal forehearers came from that. verv ancient and h:i.storic district. ~[y uncles and aunts left Dnnville in 1914 when five of mv uncles we11t to '.•)or1d 'far 1, the> onlv remaininsr me~hPr of that familv. my mother, stayed in r-:Jewfounrllancl but we do have close association with t.hnt district and it is with a sense of nride that I thank the oeople ·for havinr. elected me tq re~resent them in that di.strict. J'M - 1 Mr.

SpeaJrcr, . this rlistrict. like oractic;illy everv rural di.strirt in the nrovince, has manv, manv orohlems anrl it is difficult to ima)!.i.ne that within 2 ra<lius o" one htmrlrerl miles from this verv buildi.nr we hnve conditions, road conditions that are prarticallv fm-rossihle to describe. Tn fnct clurinsr the election t found that it wa5 imnossib l.P to visit at l1~Ast two or three communities in the- district because of these road conditions. t refer, Mr. Sneaker. in p11rti.cu.l ,1r to the road from Fox Harbour to Shin Harbour.

This ,,ilrti.cu.1 a r piece :if rc>ad was corip let el v inin11ss;.ihle for as mu ell cts one week anr:t durinr this neriod all communication with that community was for ;1ll practical purrioses destroved or disconnected. I tried to vi.sit the :irea mvself and s.~.w men, women and children stuck in vehicles. T saw the parish priest unable to leave Fox Rarhour and cet to Shln Harhour. t saw conrli .tions. Mr. Sneal:er, which I am sure hono11rab.le l'lembers would hardly credit that existed in 1972.

Of course. the remarks of some of them were,when T spoke with ther.1 and exnlained my nresence, "l•;ell, you people have the p.overnment for six weeks am'I 1 ook what has hapT'ened to the roads. ' AN HON. MF.?f:llER: Tory tines are hard times. MR. AYUJARD: Torv times are hard _times, yes. Now, Mr. Sneaker, it has been indicated to me that it is near clos 'inp. time so perhaps this uoulr:t be as ~Ciod a ti•·•e ,'ls any to moye the adjournment of the dehate. 618

May 2, 1972 Tape 232 MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker; I move that the remainin~ orders of the day stand deferred and the House at its rising do adjourn until tomorrow. Wednesrlav at three o'clock in the afternoon and the House do now ad .1 ourn. On motion the House at its risinr adjourn until tomorrow, Wednesday, May 3, 1972, at 3:00 P.H. 619 .JM - 2