Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Statements by Ministers — 22 March 2004 (45th General Assembly, 1st Session, Vol. XLV No. 2)
2004-03-22
Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
March 22, 2004 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY
PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLV No. 2
The House met at 1:30 p.m.
MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!
Statements by Members
MR. SPEAKER: It will be my intention on each day to announce the
rotation. The rotation for today would be statements by the Members for Terra
Nova, Exploits, Humber Valley, Grand Falls-Buchans, Labrador West, and the
Member for Ferryland.
The hon. the Member for Terra Nova.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. ORAM: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I rise in the House today to offer congratulations to the people
of Glovertown, Traytown and Culls Harbour who, this weekend, played host to the
very first provincial Girls Hockey Tournament ever held in our Province.
Under the capable direction and leadership of Mr. Steven Harris, a local
physical education teacher, and hosted by local families, eight teams from
around the Island competed at the Glovertown Arena. First place honours went to
Ascension Collegiate of Bay Roberts and the host team from Glovertown were
selected as displaying the highest level of sportsmanship. Congratulations to
these and to all the girls who participated.
Mr. Speaker, this event was covered by the local media, including the CBC,
which to me demonstrates its importance.
What this weekend also says to me, Mr. Speaker, is that the small communities
in our rural districts are indeed capable of participating in and hosting such
events. It shows me that we have the interest, the ability, the facilities and
the will to contribute to the youth of this Province and, indeed, to the life of
the Province as a whole.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Thank you very much.
I apologize, we should have admitted strangers before we had the first
statement. We shall now do that. It will just take a second.
SERGEANT-AT-ARMS: Admit strangers.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Exploits.
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to remember Father Leo Burke who passed away recently after a
lengthy illness at the age of ninety.
Father Burke served Bishop's Falls for more than thirty years, starting in
1957, and tended to the spiritual needs of the communities of Bishop's Falls,
Botwood and Fortune Harbour. Father Burke had a profound affect on the lives of
everyone in the community, as well as the entire Province, and was a very active
and prominent member of the community. His hard work revitalized the Catholic
community in Bishop's Falls and the results of his labours can be seen today
in the church as well as the parish residence and the school that today bears
his name; Leo Burke Academy, all of which were built during the 1960s. Father
Burke put his heart and soul into these projects as well as everything else that
he did for the community and the region.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all Members of the House of Assembly to join me in
extending condolences to the Roman Catholic Parish of Bishop's Falls and the
entire community as we remember the life of a man deeply dedicated to the
community and to his faith.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Humber Valley.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS GOUDIE: Mr. Speaker, as MHA for the District of Humber Valley I rise
today to congratulate four residents of Corner Brook who have done our Province
proud.
On Sunday, February 1, 2004, the curling team of Skip Bas Buckle, Third Bob
Freeman, Second Gerry Young and Lead Harvey Holloway, won the Canadian Senior
Men's Curling Championship held in Vernon, B.C.
This is a major accomplishment as the top senior men's curling teams from
across the country competed. They are only the third team from Newfoundland and
Labrador and the first from the Corner Brook Curling Club.
As result of winning this championship, the team now has the great privilege
of representing our country, and indeed our Province of Newfoundland and
Labrador, on an international scale. The team will compete at the World Senior
Curling Championship to be held in Sweden, April 17-25, 2004.
I ask all Members of the House of Assembly to join me today in congratulating
the team of Buckle, Holloway, Young and Freeman, and wish them luck this April
in Sweden.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I rise today to recognize and commend Aliant for their
contributions to the community of Badger after the flood of 2003.
As we are all aware, the Badger flood had a devastating impact on the entire
region; however, the tremendous generosity displayed by Newfoundlanders and
Labradorians helped alleviate many of the problems surrounding this devastating
natural disaster.
One example of this kind generosity was a scholarship fund that was
established by the Aliant Pioneers and the Exploits Club. This scholarship sees
$1,000 awarded to a university student from Badger each year for the next
fifteen years. This $15,000 endowment was raised through donations that came to
the organizations from all across Canada.
This year the first scholarship was presented to Dane Hurley, the son of Neil
and Marion Hurley. Mr. Hurley is a student at Acadia University in Nova Scotia.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join with me in
congratulating The Aliant Pioneers, The Exploits Club and the many volunteers
who kindly donated to the Badger fund to ensure the future of Bander's youth
are strong. In addition, I congratulate Dane Hurley and wish him all the best as
he continues his studies at Acadia University.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It is my great pleasure today to bring to the attention of Members of the
House of Assembly, the accomplishments of fifteen-year-old Joey Russell, a
figure skater from Labrador City. Last year, Mr. Speaker, Joey won a silver
medal in the Junior National Championships. This year, Joey returned home from
the National Novice Men's event held in Nepean, Ontario, sporting a silver
medal. Mr. Speaker, this marks the first time in our Province's figure skating
history where two medals have been won in a national championship in a singles
event.
Joey is totally dedicated to his chosen sport. In fact much of his schooling
is self-taught, as he is spending more and more time training in Alberta. His
proud parents are John and Judy Russell, who are very supportive of their son's
accomplishments.
I ask all members, Mr. Speaker, to join me in wishing Joey continued success.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Ferryland seeks leave to make a member's
statement. Does the hon. member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I would like to take this opportunity, on behalf of my district, to publicly
pay my respect to the memory of the recently departed Mr. Michael Ryan of Bay
Bulls.
Mr. Ryan passed away on March 18. He was a committed family man who cared
greatly for his family, friends and community. During his lifetime he worked in
various capacities, from being a mess boy on the Jupiter as it laid
anti-submarine nets in St. John's Harbour during World War II to being an
attendant at the Waterford Hospital, while at the same time owning a grocery
store. He is probably most well known for his building of Ryan's Funeral Home
in Bay Bulls.
A strong volunteer, Mr. Ryan was a former Mayor of Bay Bulls, a Fourth Degree
member of the Knights of Columbus, a seventeen-year school trustee, and a
recipient of the 2003 Queen's Jubilee Award, to mention only a few of his past
activities and achievements. He has been a lifetime supporter of the PC Party
and served as an example to all of us on how one individual can make a
difference to so many.
I am sure this House, Mr. Speaker, will join with me in sending our
condolences to the Ryan family.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Statements by Ministers
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I rise today to inform this hon. House of a dinner that I
attended on behalf of the Province last Thursday evening in Ottawa. Mr. Speaker,
the dinner was hosted by the Prime Minister and held in honour of the Prime
Minister of Ireland, Taoiseach Bertie Ahern.
I had the privilege of sitting next to Taoiseach Ahern for most of the
evening, as Prime Minister Martin insisted that I take his seat next to the
Taoiseach, so that we could discuss issues of mutual importance to Ireland and
Newfoundland and Labrador.
We share deep and profound roots as a province and a country, as much of our
cultural heritage is steeped in Irish tradition. We must continue to build on
those traditions and further develop relationships with the Irish in areas of
trade, commerce, investment and bi-lateral cooperation.
Mr. Speaker, this is exactly what I discussed with the Taoiseach, and we
agreed that much can be accomplished with a renewed Memorandum of Understanding
between our jurisdictions. I am hopeful that this MOU can be signed during a
provincial mission we are planning to Ireland this summer.
Newfoundland and Labrador can learn a great deal from the Irish experience.
When Ireland joined the European Union in 1973, its economy was among the
poorest in Europe. Today, it is the fastest growing EU economy. Ireland has been
very successful in attracting investment and focusing on exports and it now
boasts the youngest population in all Europe and an exceptional education
system.
Mr. Speaker, these sound like ambitious goals for this Province given our
current fiscal situation, however, these are the kinds of goals that this
Province must aspire to and with patience, cooperation and by making smart
long-term decisions we can be the next Ireland. If Ireland can do it, then
Newfoundland and Labrador can certainly do it, too.
I spoke extensively with the Taoiseach about how Ireland successively turned
its economy around and how we can emulate that experience in this Province.
Understanding the seriousness of our fiscal challenges, the Taoiseach was
very forthcoming with sound advice on steps that we must take to address our
deficit so that we can grow our economy for a bright and prosperous future.
Mr. Speaker, our government looks forward to a renewed relationship with the
Irish government and other partners, as we reaffirm our commitment to work
together for the common good of Ireland and Newfoundland and Labrador.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Let me say thank you, Mr. Speaker, as well to the Premier's Office for
providing an advance copy of the statement that was just read here in the House.
Mr. Speaker, I am glad to see that this particular dinner occurred. I am glad
to see, just as we saw in the Throne Speech, that the new government plans to
continue another great Liberal initiative, the Irish-Newfoundland and Labrador
business partnership, because in fact it has been one of the areas where there
has been great success in the last number of years, dating back to 1993, as a
matter of fact, the House might know, and it has been renewed - I understand the
statement to say they are going to renew, not a brand new one, but renew - the
MOU which has been in place for a decade, and we have done this.
I point this out, Mr. Speaker: The statement says Newfoundland and Labrador
can learn a great deal from the Irish experience, talking about growing the
economy. We have learned a lot from the Irish experience and we have grown the
economy. As a matter of fact, we have led the country in economic growth for
most of the last decade as a result of learning some of the lessons.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, the problem is this: The problem is that in the
Irish experience, the one thing that they have that we are still missing, is the
transfers from the EU in cash to Ireland that let them make the difference in
training, because they grew their own economy but they got a huge transfer of
money from the EU, and I would suggest and contend to the House and the people
of the Province, that it was not any big favour that the Prime Minister was
doing -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time has expired.
MR. GRIMES: - saying: Sit next to the Taoiseach. He should have sat next
to the Prime Minister and straightened out our transfers from Ottawa.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am glad the Premier had a chance to meet with Taoiseach last week. I know
that obviously concentration on export is something, really, that we have been
doing in this Province for a very long time: iron ore, fish, oil and now nickle.
The real problem here, Mr. Speaker, is that we are not getting our fair share of
the benefits of these resources, and I don't know of Ireland can teach us
anything about that.
They can teach us one thing though, Mr. Speaker. They have put a tremendous
investment over the last thirty years into education. A lot of that money came
from the EU, but they built their public education system and made sure that
everybody in Ireland had an opportunity to get a good quality public education
that wasn't costing them money. That is somewhere where we can emulate
Ireland, Mr. Speaker, and with a better educated young people who are able to
stay here we can improve out economy too.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The member's time has expired.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture and
Labrador Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, as my fellow members of the House of Assembly are aware, on
April 24, 2003, the federal government announced the closure to the Northern
Gulf cod and Northern cod fisheries. This impacted over 580 people in the
processing sector and up to 800 harvesting enterprises on the West Coast of
Newfoundland and in Southern Labrador.
Mr. Speaker, last spring our Province's All-party Committee on Cod
Fisheries took the position that a complete moratorium on cod fishing in the
Northern Gulf of St. Lawrence is unnecessary. It was, and remains, the
Government of Newfoundland and Labrador's view that the cod stocks in 3Pn4RS
can be rebuilt by introducing additional conservation measures in the context of
a limited fishery that is ongoing.
Mr. Speaker, in November the Premier wrote to the federal government to
express our Province's position about the importance of reopening the cod
fishery in 3Pn4RS. The Premier also raised the matter when he met with the new
Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, Mr. Geoff Regan, last week here in St. John's.
I too raised the issue when I met with Mr. Regan in January and did so again
when we met last week in Boston. In our initial meeting, Mr. Speaker, I asked
Minister Regan to request the advice of the Fisheries Resource Conservation
Council, the FRCC, for 3Pn4RS cod stocks for this year.
Mr. Speaker, earlier this month, Minister Regan did indeed ask the FRCC to
provide him with a recommendation on cod in the Northern Gulf of St. Lawrence.
Information available from the DFO research survey and sentinel fisheries
suggests that the stock is in better shape than what scientists believed last
year. Mr. Speaker, we are again calling on the federal government to open a
small- scale cod fishery in 3Pn4RS, in conjunction with conservation measures to
help rebuild the stock.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, while I thank the minister for his statement here today there
seems to be more unanswered questions then there are questions that are answered
in his statement.
I was the minister when the all-party committee that he talked about was
established last winter and I think personally that the most important
recommendation that we gave to the federal government is that we would keep the
cod fishery open, not only in the Gulf but also in 2J+3KL.
I noticed in your statement that both you and the Premier talked to the
minister. I would like to know what you said about the stock in 2J3KL? Have you
forgotten the people from the Coast of Labrador to St. John's here, or is that
just forgetting about that?
I also want to talk about the FRCC. The FRCC recommended to the minister last
year that the Gulf fishery be kept open, but what did the minister do? He closed
it anyway. So if this minister is no better than the last one, do not hold your
breath.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I assume that the minister is talking about the federal minister, not the
provincial one. I would ask, Mr. Speaker, that when this provincial Minister of
Fisheries gives a Ministerial Statement that he read or talk a little bit slower
because by the time it gets to me I only get one-half of what the critic gets to
respond. He only gets half of what you get. I will have to get leave to respond
to the statement today.
The issue is a very important one and I do hope that this government is more
successful than all of us put together were last year in trying to convince the
Liberal minister in Ottawa to do the right thing -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time has expired.
MR. HARRIS: By leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. HARRIS: I hope, Mr. Speaker, that we are more successful than we all
were in a full court press last year. We worked very, very hard to put together
a consensus on the 2J3KL and the Gulf stocks to seek at least to keep the
fishery open a crack so that our fishing industry would have a stake in the
rebuilding of those stocks. I hope that he will listen to the -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time has expired.
MR. HARRIS: I thought I had leave, Mr. Speaker?
MR. SPEAKER: The Chair did not ask if leave had been granted. If leave
has been granted you certainly can continue, sir.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Both of these fisheries are very important. Obviously the whole Northeast
Coast depends on the success of the rebuilding of the stocks of 2J+3K L and
there has been terrific evidence in the Gulf that there has been improvements in
those stocks. So we would like to see both of them open for the benefit of the
fishermen who need that fish today, and also for the rebuilding of the stocks
for the future.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Before we proceed with the Oral Questions, I want to take this opportunity to
make a commentary on the Question Periods in the House and the procedures that I
would like to see practiced.
Before the commencement of the first Question Period of the First Session of
the 45th General Assembly, it therefore might be appropriate for me, as your new
Speaker, to share some perspectives on the conduct of Question Period, since
this feature of our parliamentary democracy plays such a pivotal role in the
right of members to seek information from the ministry and the right of the
ministry to offer clarifications or information on administrative policies and
practices.
Speaker James Jerome of the Canadian House of Commons described Question
Period in a book entitled Mr. Speaker , as follows: "If the essence
of Parliament is government accountability, then surely the essence of
accountability is the Question Period."
Question Period serves this House as a daily snapshot of our provincial
political life and is followed more closely than any other part of our sitting
day by the press and in recent years, since the televising of our House, by the
general public. It is a vibrant part of our democracy with tremendous
spontaneity and, by its very nature and tradition, is a free-wheeling affair.
Much of what is said finds its way into the newscast and into the print media.
Messages are not always as refined or as perfect as we would like, but history
and tradition will show Question Period to be an effective manner to making
parliamentary points, both for the Opposition and Government alike.
Question Period places heavy demands on the Speaker. Every Speaker has his or
her own style and is guided by traditions of parliamentary practices both in
this House and in other Houses within Canada and throughout the Commonwealth.
Time management and brevity are essential features of Question Period. Most
Parliaments in Canada have established specific limitations on the time
allocated for the asking of questions and for the response by the ministry.
Speaker Snow repeatedly brought this matter to the attention of members
during the Forty-Fourth House by reminding members that lengthy
preambles took
an unfair share of time and almost invariably provoked the same kind of
response.
In the House of Commons in Ottawa, members asking questions have a maximum
time allocation of thirty-five seconds, with the same allocation of time for the
responses by the government. These time allocations have assured that as many
members as possible can participate in Question Period.
I might point out that, with the adoption of these new rules, in the
forty-five minute Question Period in Ottawa the questions that were asked ranged
from thirty-eight to forty-two questions, from the average before that of
twenty-two to twenty-four.
I might say that our House has the lowest ratio of questions and answers per
minute, per sitting, in Canada, meaning that Question Period has tended to be
dominated by lengthy questions and equally lengthy answers. A review of the
average number of questions per sitting in the last House was thirteen in a
thirty-minute Question Period, or an average of one full minute for each
question and for each answer.
Question Period is not a debating forum, and members should take every effort
to be as brief as possible in asking questions and ministers should take the
minimum time in offering an answer. I am proposing to work with members to try
to improve the number of questions we have on the Order Paper every day. The
average in the last House was thirteen questions, including supplementaries. As
I say, that is now the lowest in the country.
The Speaker recognizes that our House will perhaps need some time for
adjustment to the new time allocations. In the interim, the Speaker will be
sufficiently flexible to allow an easy transition to the new process. Members
either asking the question, or the minister giving a response, can expect an
interruption from the Speaker after about forty seconds or so. This will
indicate to the member that his or her time allocation is near completion and
that there is but time for one additional short sentence.
Members should not feel offended if they run out of time. Just a few days
ago, when watching Question Period in Ottawa, I witnessed the Deputy Prime
Minister running out of time on six occasions in one Question Period. I fully
expect similar occurrences in this House. No member asking a question and no
member giving an answer should feel aggrieved by the process. It may take a few
days for the change to become a familiar part of our traditions. The Speaker
will try to be sensitive to the issues under discussion and use whatever
discretion is deemed appropriate.
Finally, let us always remember that regardless of how dramatically we may
differ in our opinions or how passionately we may believe in the value of our
convictions, it is essential that Question Period be conducted in a free and
civil manner that respects the rights of each member to participate in a
tolerant and understanding parliamentary procedure.
Thank you.
Oral Questions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
You will get no argument from me with respect to brevity and I will try to
set a very good example. I have been promoting the concept for fifteen years,
Mr. Speaker. I could not agree with you any more.
Mr. Speaker, I personally was pleased, and I am sure that all of us were
pleased, to hear in the Throne Speech that the government is working
cooperatively and constructively with our public sector unions to negotiate new
collective agreements, and that government's commitment to positive labour
relations and harmony in the workforce is solid. Now, only time will tell, of
course, if that is going to happen and that commitment will be kept or not.
My question, Mr. Speaker, is for the Premier. Can the Premier, in the
meantime - we can all recall what happened in the Throne Speech - recall the
commitment he made to the unions on September 20, 2001, in his address to the
Newfoundland Association of Public Employees, and does he believe that
commitment he made on that day has been kept?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I know the frustration of being on the other side of the House,
and I know what it is like not to get answers to questions. I stood over there
for two years, I must have asked a thousand questions, and never got an answer,
so in order to make it easy for the Leader of the Opposition, the answer is yes.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I appreciate the answer and, to make sure the answer is yes, I will remind
the Premier of the exact commitment, Mr. Speaker. He did say, on September 20,
2001: If some unexpected, unanticipated circumstance arises, I will come back to
you as the unions and ask for your help and cooperation in finding a resolution
we can all live with.
Mr. Speaker, how many meetings has the Premier held, did the Premier hold,
with the unions prior to announcing his solution on January 5, 2004?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I do remember the commitment that I made. I do not know exactly what I said
to the NAPE convention when I spoke to them. I would also indicate to the Leader
of the Opposition and yourself, Mr. Speaker, that I have met with the leader of
the nurses' union, I have met with the leader of the police association, I
have met with the President of NAPE, and I have met with the President of CUPE.
I have had a detailed discussion with them and I will allow the collective
bargaining process to take its due course.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, it is refreshing to see the new approach at work, to answer a
question completely different than the one that I asked. Let me ask it again.
The question was: How many meetings did the Premier hold, Mr. Speaker, with the
union representatives prior to January 5, 2004, when, without any consultation
with anybody, he announced part of the solution, which was going to be a wage
freeze for two years? Would he like to redeem himself and take a chance at
answering the question that was actually asked? How many meetings were held
prior to January 5, 2004?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition knows full well that the
election was held in October, that we took over government on November 6, and
that the speech to which he refers was held two months later. We spent our
entire time, during that time, the two months, taking a closer look at what his
government had done to our Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: When we took a closer look we did indeed find a mess,
Mr. Speaker, and we spent that entire time trying to clean it up, specifically
authorizing an independent study by PricewaterhouseCoopers. That is what we were
doing during that period of time, Mr. Speaker.
During that period of time, Mr. Speaker, just so I cannot be accused of not
answering the question, no, I did not have any meeting during that period of
time because I was too busy taking a closer look.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, I do commend the Premier for admitting that the
answer is: No, there were no meetings held with the unions.
Mr. Speaker, the issue again is this: We seem to have two Premiers, one who
makes the commitments and another one who then turns around and breaks the
commitments.
The commitment was: If some unanticipated, unexpected circumstance arises I
will come back to you and discuss it with you. He just admitted that he held no
meetings. He looked at the circumstance, decided what the answer was and
announced it to the whole world; a commitment one time and then breaking it the
next time.
Mr. Speaker, a new question: Maybe we should ask the pensioners -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the member now to complete his question.
MR. GRIMES: Yes, Mr. Speaker.
Ask the pensioners if they believe the commitments made were commitments kept
or broken, Mr. Speaker.
Clearly, on the public record, the Member for St. John's Centre, having
consulted with the now Premier, said, raises for pensioners retroactive to 1989,
and now a rollback. Is that a commitment kept by this Premier, Mr. Speaker, to
the pensioners?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
If I might answer the question from the Leader of the Opposition with some of
his own words, Mr. Speaker.
In March of 1998 he said: I think, Mr. Speaker, the direction here today is
very specific. It says, take care of a select few, who happen to be public
service pensioners, by creating a further burden on pension plans that are
already severely stretched. He is quoting December 1, 1999. Our notion is that
while public servants did provide tremendous goods and services to the Province
we should not downplay or suggest that they are the only ones who built the
Province. That was his answer, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Again, the issues in terms of the history of the government that I led have
been dealt with in the election, Mr. Speaker. We understand that. We are looking
forward to the new approach, Mr. Speaker. It is the new approach that the people
want to hear about today. What is this group going to do differently and for the
betterment of people like the pensioners?
Mr. Speaker, due to the public discussion of the negotiations that have
occurred to date, it is well known that the government wants to achieve a wage
freeze and a series of concessions such as this rollback of a pension increase.
Does the Premier have any plans, Mr. Speaker, to accomplish those objectives if
the unions refuse to voluntarily sign such an agreement?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, unlike the former Premier and his government, the new approach
does not negotiate in public.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: It does not negotiate collective agreements or finalize
collective agreements on the open lines in our Province. We will allow the
collective bargaining process to take its course. They are meeting as we sit
here in this House of Assembly.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Since January 5, concerned people throughout the Province have been calling
me about the crisis in the health care system. They tell me that the system is
unable to sustain further cuts, and Thursday's Throne Speech tells us that
more cuts are on the way. In fact, Mr. Speaker, the minister's own comments in
the media in recent months tell us that she is more concerned with the fiscal
bottom line than with the health care of people in Newfoundland and Labrador.
I would like to ask the Minister of Health and Community Services: How much
in savings, Mr. Speaker, has she promised the Finance Minister that she can
deliver in this year's Budget?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
This government is concerned about sustaining the health care system,
providing the best health care to the residents of this Province that it can
within the fiscal means available because of the way your members across the way
left the condition of this Province in, and I have made no commitment whatsoever
to the Minister of Finance with regard to savings in health care.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse
au Clair.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
That concern that the minister has about sustaining the health care system in
this Province has led her to issue a directive to health boards all across the
Province, telling them that they must start cutting back their particular
budgets within their organizations, and she cannot deny that this is the case.
The minister has just agreed to a best practice review for the Western and
the Grenfell Health Care Boards. The Western board asked for this review,
Minister, months ago. At the time you gave them the directive to go out, start
looking for these savings and do their own operational reviews.
I ask the minister today: Has her change in perspective occurred because of
the persistence of the Western Health Care Board -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. member now to complete her question.
MS JONES: - or is it because of members in her own caucus who publicly
stated that they could not accept the recommendations that were being put
forward?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As I said before, our concern is with sustainability of the health care
system which was left in disarray under the members opposite.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse
au Clair.
MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, this member will make no apologies for expanding
MRI services and building new hospitals throughout the Province.
AN HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: What I want to ask the minister, Mr. Speaker, is: What will she
do with the report, once it is submitted, for the Western and Grenfell Regional
Health Services Board area?
She has had a report from the Labrador Health Board on her desk for almost
three months, recommending more than twenty-five social workers be added to
Health Labrador Corporation, yet there has been little or no action, Minister.
Is this the callous way that you intend to treat the other reports that you have
just asked for?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I will not be leaving a report to sit on the shelf, like the members opposite
did with the report that was done on the Health Labrador Corporation.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My question is for the Minister of Health also, and I assume my question will
not fit her cookie cutter approach that she has here.
In the spirit of openness and accountability of this new Administration,
openness and transparency and accountability and so on, there was a report
requested by this minister, of Western Health Care, to provide a report to her
about how they might save $3 million by the end of this fiscal year, and $8
million over ten years.
In the spirit of openness, I understand a copy of this report has been
provided to all of your Tory colleagues on the West Coast. This member and the
Member for the Bay of Islands requested a copy of that report and we have been
refused.
MR. SPEAKER: I ask the member now to complete his question.
MR. PARSONS: Could you explain to us why it is okay for your colleagues
to have that report, but you have refused to give it to this member and the
Member for Bay of Islands?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS E. MARSHALL: I did not provide a copy of that report to anybody.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, I put it to the minister that she indeed has
the report in her possession, that she is aware that the report has been
provided to her colleagues and, more specifically, that she has instructed the
Western Health Care Corporation, as of March 12, not to give a copy to this
member and the Member for Bay of Islands.
AN HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
No, that information is not correct.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, again I go back to the openness, before I make
my final comment. In terms of the openness and the accountability in the Blue
Book, and the blueprint about getting all reports out in thirty days anyway -
that report, by the way, was filed long before thirty days, back from now, so it
should have been released anyway. The minister is not denying that I made the
request to her in writing.
I have in my possession here a letter from Allan Kendall, the CEO of the
Western Health Care Corporation, dated March 12, because I followed it up with
him and said that I have written to the minister, I have written to yourselves:
How come everybody else has a copy of this report and I cannot get one?
Apparently they all have one. The Member for Stephenville East, the Member for
Port au Port, everybody has been on the media talking about the details of the
report.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the member now to complete his question.
MR. PARSONS: Mr. Kendall says here that he has been instructed by your
department not to provide this member with a copy. That is all I can say. I am
not calling the minister a liar but you either do not know what is going on in
your department or who is giving whom instructions, but this is a letter from
Mr. Allan Kendall saying that he has been instructed by your department not to
give me a copy.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS E. MARSHALL: I will state quite categorically that I have provided no
instructions to anybody with regard to who or whom not to give a copy of that
report to.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader, final supplementary.
MR. PARSONS: Final question, final supplementary.
In view of all this information I have laid before the House today, and my
comments: Will the minister undertake now and here in the presence of the
Province of Newfoundland, and in openness and disclosure, to provide this member
with a copy of the report that has been filed with you by the Western Health
Care Corporation?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS E. MARSHALL: I have not provided a copy of that report to anyone and I
will not be providing it to you at this time.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My question is for the Premier. His Minister of Finance in November stated
that while government recognized the importance of the accrual method of
accounting giving rise to large deficit numbers - and it was $660 million
projected at that time - that the total amount the provincial government hoped
to eliminate over a four year period was actually the cash deficit of $212
million on current account and $75 million on capital, for a total of $287
million in current capital account deficit.
That being the case, Mr. Speaker, why does the Premier persist in
fearmongering and alarmist talk about deficits rising to $1 billion and setting
himself on a collision course with the public sector workers and our pensioners?
MR. SPEAKER: I ask the member now to complete his question.
MR. HARRIS: Why doesn't he tell the people of this Province about the
growth on the revenue side that he said in the election he was going to
concentrate on instead of fearmongering and alarmist talk like that?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the Leader of the New Democratic Party for his question.
Mr. Speaker, as I indicated to the Leader of the Opposition, we took a closer
look. We took a closer look at the books as soon as we got into government. We
realized that we had a terrible mess on our hands. At that point in time we
commissioned an independent study by a reputable firm who came back and gave us
the numbers. I can tell you from my own personal experience in business
throughout my life, the situation was horrendous. I had an opportunity to have
that discussion with my fellow premiers at the Premiers' Conference, my fellow
Atlantic Premiers, the Taoiseach of Ireland as recently as Thursday night, and
they were horrified by the numbers that we have in this Province.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the Premier now to complete his answer.
PREMIER WILLIAMS: So we have had a hard look at it. They are real
numbers, and that is why I am dealing with it.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi
Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
According to the Canadian Centre of Policy Alternatives which apparently,
according to the Global Mail , has a better record than the federal
government in predicting these things. They say in a study that the deficit of
this Province, the sustained deficit, is stabilized at about $280 million a
year; the same figure that the Minister of Finance has used.
Mr. Speaker, if that is the case, which I believe it to be, why does this
minister continue to rely on inflated figures with worst-case scenarios by a
group of accountants instead of a qualified economist with a great track record
in predicting numbers who agrees with his own Minister of Finance? Why doesn't
he talk about the real cash deficit and capital deficit that we have and not
this conflated figure?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, I can indicate to the Member for Signal
Hill-Quidi Vidi that we rely on the numbers and projections that our very
confident public officials give us; the very confident officials in the
Department of Finance and in the Department of Treasury Board. Those figures
have been confirmed by an independent study, which was done. Those figures had
been confirmed by the Royal Commission, which was done. The serious
unsustainable situation in our Province has been confirmed by our bond rating
agencies. The list is endless. We have a real problem here. I am really troubled
by it, our entire government is troubled by it, and I would suggest that hon.
members opposite should be troubled by it.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The same Finance Minister, while in Opposition, talked about $100 million of
wastage in the health care sector. Does he plan to attack the deficit by
attacking health care services and public sector employees as a means of
balancing the books?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The comments that the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi is making is not
accurate. He has not taken my statement accurately at all. I have said that in
the House in the previous session. It is absolutely false, the impression he is
putting out. We are going to tackle this deficit in a responsible manner on
behalf of the people of this Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My question today is for the Minister of Health and Community Services. There
is an ongoing issue in my district that is very important to the people of Grand
Falls-Buchans and all of Central Newfoundland. It is about the status of our
cancer clinic.
As you are aware, Mr. Speaker, it was announced that this was a go ahead on
June 27, 2003. You can imagine the joy and encouragement that the cancer
survivors felt when they heard that news. No longer would they have to sit three
side-by-side in armchair recliners that will not recline. There is not enough
space there, and just one bed.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the member to complete her question.
MS THISTLE: There is one bed where patients share it with a doctor who
needs to do examination at the same time, and people have to go through a
crowded waiting room to go to the bathroom.
Mr. Speaker, can the minister today provide any assurance to the people of
Central Newfoundland - in particular, Grand Falls-Buchans district - that this
cancer clinic is indeed going to go ahead?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The answer to that will be known during the Budget, when the Budget is
brought down.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.
MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct my next question to the
Minister of Transportation and Works.
Mr. Speaker, the current cancer clinic serves people from Lewisporte to Baie
Verte and down on the South Coast. On March 9, I wrote the Minister of
Transportation and Works and asked him for his support because his constituents
use that cancer clinic in Grand Falls-Windsor. That was March 9, today is March
22. I have not heard from this minister.
Would you now stand and support your constituents and tell us, for the public
record, that you will be lobbying your colleague, the Minister of Health and
Community Services, to make sure that this cancer clinic goes ahead?
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The House will know that ministers are not responsible for answering
questions that do not fall within their administrative responsibility.
Therefore, if the minister wishes to reply he can, but there is no obligation on
his part to do so.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, I thank you for your protection.
I do recall, I believe, that the hon. member copied me on a letter that she
sent to a colleague. I do not think it is correct that the hon. member wrote me,
as the MHA for Lewisporte District, as an individual, but if she wants to do
that I will certainly respond to her and I will certainly respond to my
constituents if they have a question about my representation in this Chamber.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for Grand
Falls-Buchans.
MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, it is quite apparent that he did not commit when
he answered the question.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MS THISTLE: He did not commit any support.
I would now like to frame the question directly to the Minister of Health and
Community Services. Have you heard from your colleagues in Central Newfoundland;
the Member for Windsor-Springdale, the Member for Baie Verte, the Minister of
Tourism, Culture and Recreation? His constituents have to travel two hours on
the highway on a good day before they undertake their treatment in Grand
Falls-Windsor. Have you heard from your colleagues who have constituents using
the cancer clinic in Grand Falls-Windsor?
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the member now to complete her question.
MS THISTLE: Can they be afforded the privacy, the comfort, the dignity
other cancer survivors have in this Province? Have you heard from your
colleagues? I want you to give assurance to the people out there today watching
this, that they can have their cancer clinic?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Yes, I speak to my colleagues every day.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.
MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My question is also for the Minister of Health and Community Services.
You chose to issue a press release on Christmas Eve, Mr. Speaker, with the
news that the new health care facility for Grand Bank would be put on hold. I
ask the minister on what basis she made the decision when a thorough analysis
had been undertaken by all of the stakeholders involved, including officials in
the Department of Health, about the need for this facility, and did she consult
with the Premier who, on three occasions during the election, committed to
completing the facility if he became Premier?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS E. MARSHALL: Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The decision to defer capital projects was a financial decision based on the
status of the Province and the poor financial position in which the members
opposite left the Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Grand Bank.
MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, it is ironic that the minister keeps referring to
the state of finances in which these members left the Province. How come it only
applies to those areas where there are Liberal representatives? How come the
Premier can stand up and commit to a long-term care facility in Corner Brook,
while you are saying that ours had to be put on hold?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS E. MARSHALL: These capital projects will serve not only residents from
Liberal districts but also residents from other districts. In addition, I would
like to bring to the member's attention that we have closed two group homes,
both of which were in PC districts.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for Grand Bank.
MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister if there is any truth to the
rumour that you are now going to be looking at taking down the steel that has
been put up for this facility? I am really concerned about this. Three million
dollars have been invested to date, and now I am being told that you are going
to put out an edict to have the steel taken down. Is there any truth to this,
Minister?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The decision on the Grand Bank clinic was that the clinic was deferred.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank, there is time for one
more supplementary.
MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
In light of the decisions taken by the government to put a hold on these new
projects underway in rural parts of Newfoundland and Labrador, I am now going to
ask the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development, who has
responsibility for helping Dr. House revitalize rural Newfoundland and Labrador,
what this will mean in rural parts of this Province. You are taking away an
opportunity for employment as well as good services. What is this going to mean
to rural Newfoundland and Labrador?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural
Development.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am happy to receive the question from the member, and I am pleased to
answer it.
Unemployment remains the highest in the country, in Newfoundland and
Labrador, and this department is going to work and focus now to build new
partnerships, create a better business climate in this Province and foster
economic development. We are already working on forming partnerships with people
all over this Province who are interested in working with us. This department
has done little or nothing in the last ten years.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: I ask the minister to complete her answer.
MS DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, the department has gone from an investment of
$20 million in small businesses ten years ago to less than $2 million in the
last four years.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The time for Oral Questions has expired.
Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I would like to table fifteen special warrants for the fiscal year 2003-2004.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, this past week I issued a release listing all
fifteen, the amounts, the departments there.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I issued a release last week and listed all fifteen, and the amounts. They
are all very clearly articulated in the release and they are here for tabling. I
brought numerous copies, as I knew hon. members would love to have an
opportunity to look at that.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Under tabling of reports it is my duty to inform the House
that pursuant to
Section 5(4) of the Internal Economy Commission Act, the
following appointments were made to the Commission of Internal Economy: The
Member for Bonavista South, in his capacity as Deputy Speaker; the Member for
Kilbride, in his capacity as Government House Leader; the Member for Burgeo
& LaPoile, in his capacity as Opposition House Leader; the Member for
Ferryland and the Member for Topsail in their capacities as Ministers of the
Crown appointed by the Lieutenant-Governor in Council; the Member for Bellevue,
in his capacity as a member of the Opposition; and the Speaker, as Chair of the
Commission.
Notices of Motion
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'anse au Clair.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I would like to present a Private Members' Motion:
WHEREAS Health Care is one of the essential services provided by a government
to the people of this Province; and
WHEREAS there is a demonstrated need for improvements to health care services
in many areas of this Province; and
WHEREAS in several cases improvements to health care facilities have been put
on hold without sufficient explanation; and
WHEREAS the government has directed health care boards to produce cost-saving
plans that will result in service cuts in many rural areas;
THEREFORE
BE IT RESOLVED that Members of the House of Assembly call upon the
government to reaffirm that health care is a priority item that cannot be
compromised;
THEREFORE BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that Members of the House of Assembly call
on government to proceed with all previously announced improvements to health
care facilities as they were originally scheduled.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Petitions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.
MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I have a petition here that I have already cleared with the Clerk of the
House and I want to read the prayer of it:
To the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador,
in parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents humbly
sheweth;
WHEREAS there is a definite need for improvements and expansions to the Bay d'Espoir
medical clinic located in St. Albans; and
WHEREAS work on this facility has been announced and tendered by the previous
government but work has since been put on hold by the current government;
THEREFORE the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the
House of Assembly to see this very important work on this health care facility
proceed without further delay.
Mr. Speaker, I signed this petition and I felt obviously proud to be able to
present it on behalf of my constituents, but I do not think I should have had to
do that.
Mr. Speaker, this particular clinic expansion was part of last year's
budgetary process. We had the unfortunate situation where the architect-engineer
died suddenly with a heart attack last summer and, as a result of that, this
particular project was delayed by about two months.
There were tenders called, by the way, Mr. Speaker, but it was not awarded
and still has not been done. I find that this particular clinic here in St.
Albans, which serves about 5,000 people, should be done, and I call upon the
government to do it. I had the unfortunate position last week to have to go to
that clinic myself for an EKG when I was in Bay d'Espoir. To go into that
particular clinic and see what the nurses and doctors have to operate with in
there is appalling. There is no privacy whatsoever.
The now clerk of the council, who was the Deputy Minister of Health at the
time -
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. LANGDON: Let me finish now. I never found such arrogance in all my
life than from the people who are sitting in the second row.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. LANGDON: At least you could give me an opportunity to present the
petition.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. LANGDON: The crowd in the nosebleed section.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
When members are presenting petitions they are on a time limit. It would be
helpful if members would permit the member to continue with his presentation
without any significant interruptions.
The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.
MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I was just presenting the case, as I thought, for the people in the area that
I represent and I see the need for, and hopefully that government will go
ahead and do it.
What I was saying is that these people, in that particular part of the
Province, were isolated, were three hours from anywhere down on the coast. We
need the facility. That is why it was done in the last budget and money provided
for, and that is why I call upon government to make sure that it is done in this
year's budget.
Thank you very much.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'anse au Clair.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to present a petition from the people of the Southeast Coast of
Labrador as it relates to the Williams Harbour road.
I will read the prayer of the petition, Mr. Speaker, for the House of
Assembly.
To the hon. House of Assembly in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in
parliament assembly, the petition of the undersigned residents in the District
of Cartwright-L'anse au Clair humbly sheweth:
WHEREAS Phase II of the Trans-Labrador Highway from Red Bay to Cartwright is
now complete with access roads to St. Lewis, Charlottetown and Pinsent's Arm;
and
WHEREAS there is over $100 million remaining in the Labrador Transportation
Fund; and
WHEREAS the people of Williams Harbour have a sustainable community that will
be open to many new opportunities and prosperity once connected to the
Trans-Labrador Highway; and
WHEREAS government must recognize the social economic impacts in regions and
communities like Williams Harbour and not solely on the economic recovery
analysis presented by consultants;
WHEREFORE the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador should start building
the road to Williams Harbour in 2004.
This is signed by a number of people, Mr. Speaker, in my district and it is a
very important piece of infrastructure, very important for the community of
Williams Harbour, as I know the minister and the Member for Lake Melville will
certainly attest to having spent time in that area, understanding the particular
region. The highway infrastructure in Labrador has been, through no small
measure, a great effort of the people of my district and the people of Labrador
in general.
Mr. Speaker, I was very proud to be a member of a district to see highways
built to these communities for the first time in our lives, to see communities
that came out of isolation and to be opened up to new opportunity and new
avenues of economic development which we have never seen in our lives. Actually,
I was kind of shocked when I heard the Minister for Innovation, Trade and Rural
Development talk about nothing happening, when I live in a district where I have
seen millions of dollars in investment in small business and hundreds of jobs
created, Mr. Speaker, in the past eight years alone, simply because of
transportation infrastructure.
Mr. Speaker, the people of Williams Harbour are no different than any other
small rural community anywhere in Newfoundland and Labrador, in any district
that any member on the opposite side represents. They want to have access. They
want to be able to be competitive in the economy of Newfoundland and Labrador
and be full participants. It is about having a better lifestyle. It is about
being able to build new business. It is about creating jobs and opportunity,
affording a better education to their children. It is not all based on whether
it is economically feasible. If you had to look at the economic feasibility of
building roads to a lot of rural communities in this Province it would not have
happened. It would never have happened. Mr. Speaker, the people of Williams
Harbour have made a good case. They made a case to the government that I was a
part of before the last election.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time has expired.
MS JONES: Can I have leave just to clue up, Mr. Speaker?
MR. SPEAKER: Has leave been granted?
MR. E. BYRNE: A few seconds, Mr. Speaker.
MS JONES: Thank you, Government House Leader.
They made a proposition to the previous government and they honoured that
particular commitment. We saw the benefits in proceeding with this
infrastructure. I can only ask, Mr. Speaker, that the current Minister of
Transportation and Works can convince his Cabinet colleagues to see the same
light, to continue with this particular development and see the people of
Williams Harbour get twenty kilometres of road to connect them to a
Trans-Labrador Highway at a cost that could be less than $6 million.
Thank you very much.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to present a petition signed by a number of people concerning
the coverage of MS drug prescriptions for people of our Province. I will take a
second to read the prayer of the petition, Mr. Speaker:
WHEREAS In 1998 the Province provided funding for four new MS drugs; and
WHEREAS the Newfoundland and Labrador Prescription Drug Plan only provides
medication coverage for seniors under the seniors' drug plan and for people on
income support; and
WHEREAS these drugs can cost between $1,800 and $3,600 a month; and
WHEREAS all other citizens in Canada can receive assistance with the high
cost of MS drugs using a co-payment and a sliding scale system, not limited to
social assistance income levels; and
WHEREAS these drugs can significantly improve the quality of life for people
with MS;
We, the undersigned, petition the House of Assembly to direct the government
to implement a co-payment or sliding scale program for drugs used to treat MS so
that people who do not qualify for assistance under the existing programs can
get financial assistance with these high cost drugs, as is the case in every
other Canadian province.
Now, Mr. Speaker, I have risen many times in this House of Assembly and
addressed the petition on this issue. It is ridiculous, I say to the government
opposite, that people in this Province have to reduce themselves, hard-working
people, to income support levels in order to get assistance with an illness that
they did not ask for or inflict on themselves. No other jurisdiction in this
country, no other province in this country requires its citizens to inflict this
type of financial hardship on them and their families to treat an illness.
Mr. Speaker, it is ridiculous, I say to the government, that people in this
Province who may have saved some money for their children's education, have to
use that money to buy a prescription drug. It is ridiculous that people who have
saved RRSPs, who have worked hard to save for their retirement, are now required
to spend those RRSPs on purchasing a drug to treat their illness. We are the
only Province that allows or requires our residents to be under a system that is
inhumane when it comes to their finances.
Now, Mr. Speaker, some people in this Province have to make a choice between
providing their families basic needs and treating their own illness. I can tell
you, because I know some of these people, they would go without the medical
treatment that they require simply to provide the other basics of life that
their families need in order to exist in our society.
Mr. Speaker, not too long ago the previous Administration announced a program
where Alzheimer's drugs would be covered. This Administration, in a short
period of time that they have been in power, have put that on hold and
everything is under review again. Well, I say to the government, it is not a
review that we need, and it is not time buying that we need. People in this
Province are hurting financially because of an illness that they have inherited
and they need help and assistance from this government. It is ironic, Mr.
Speaker, that when this government was in Opposition, each and every time -
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member's time has expired.
MR. COLLINS: By leave to clue up, Mr. Speaker.
Each and every time that I rose to present this petition the government of
the day, which were then the Opposition, agreed 100 per cent with what I had to
say.
MR. SPEAKER: Does the member have leave to finish his statement?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.
MR. COLLINS: I ask them now, the support that they showed at that time,
put it into action, start treating the people of our Province as previous
provinces and other provinces treat the people in their own respective
provinces. Do not be the only people out on a limb that is putting this undo
financial burden on the hard-working men and women of this Province.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Orders of the Day
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Bill 1, second reading of a bill,
An Act To Amend The Student Financial
Assistance Act.
Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act To Amend The Student Financial
Assistance Act." (Bill 1).
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am pleased this afternoon to introduce Bill 1,
An Act To Amend The Student
Financial Assistance Act;
an act that is important for all of us, I would say,
in this hon. House. It is certainly important for the 30,000-plus post-secondary
students; those in full-time studies today in our Province and those who have
completed their studies, have graduated from a post-secondary institution and
are now in some form of repayment. It is certainly important for those
individuals. I would say this is good legislation, Mr. Speaker, and this is good
news for the public of our Province. In particular, for the 30,000-plus
post-secondary students who support what is being done by virtue of Bill 1.
Mr. Speaker, it is certainly a goal of our government to ensure that
post-secondary participation throughout our Province, throughout Newfoundland
and Labrador, is the highest in the country and that all students who are
involved and participate in the post-secondary experience achieve credentials
that will ensure for them a bright future, and hope for the future. Hopefully,
the majority of them finding that hope and that employment experience in our own
Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.
As a government, Mr. Speaker, we are certainly mindful of the debt
experiences and what insurmountable debt means to so many of our post-secondary
students; those who are presently enrolled as a full-time student and those who
are in some form of repayment, they know all too well. As parents, or as
neighbors or as aunts or uncles or grandparents or friends of these students,
because they know we know. We know what they experience and we know what it
means to have an insurmountable debt burden on their shoulders. We live with it
everyday as their parents and as their neighbors and as their relatives.
It is important, therefore, Mr. Speaker, that as a government we do what we
can to assist them, and that is essentially what Bill 1 does. It provides a
mechanism to allow as a result of integration, which was a process that was put
forward and I had the extreme pleasure, just several weeks ago as the Minister
of Education, to participate in a signed agreement between two levels of
government - namely our own provincial government and my federal counterpart -
to enter into a signed agreement by which the loan mechanism for students in
this Province is now an integrated mechanism, it is an integrated portfolio, and
the advantage of that, Mr. Speaker, can be put simply in saying: one student,
one loan. There are mechanisms by which are found and supported in this act
which helps facilitate that. I will get to that in a moment, Mr. Speaker, when
we get into some of the more pertinent points and relative features of this
piece of legislation, which will show the people of this Province why Bill 1 is
an important piece of legislation, and why I would submit and request that it
would be supported unanimously in this House.
After considerable consultation and deliberation, Mr. Speaker, there were
changes, as I have just indicated, which would help ensure there are ways that
can facilitate methods and ways by which students can repay their loans. This
Bill 1, as indicated, helps to achieve that.
It is interesting to note that the integration process and the agreement that
was signed several weeks ago was an agreement that was supported wholeheartedly
by the Canadian Federation of Students. In fact, the local President of that
organization, Mr. Keith Dunne, was present at the press conference and spoke
publicly with a number of members on both sides of this House in support of this
particular integration procedure. I would like to publicly commend Mr. Dunne and
the Canadian Federation of Students for their support and their endorsement of
the whole integration process.
Mr. Speaker, these measures are helping to address the problem of student
debt, particularly those students with high financial need. As a government, we
are very proud of our work in keeping educational costs affordable through the
tuition freeze which was announced just a while ago. It was important for us
that we continue that particular practice, which is why it was announced several
of weeks ago, that the continuation of the implementation of the tuition freeze
would continue for the benefit of our post-secondary students.
By way of background, Mr. Speaker, in 2001 the Canadian Imperial Bank of
Commerce - which was the chartered bank or the chartered agent dealing with
student loans - put the Province on notice that it would no longer be the
lender, that it would no longer participate in the student loan formula, and
that what would now take place is that the government had to find other ways,
other than CIBC, because simply put, the bank put the Province on notice that it
would no longer participate. Therefore, the Province had to undertake a series
of approaches to find new institutions, new lenders, that would help facilitate
the thousands and thousands, and tens of thousands of students in the Province
of Newfoundland and Labrador, in achieving their student loan experience.
The legislation that we are addressing today, Mr. Speaker, provides the
provincial government authority to continue with the student loans program, and
in a nutshell, Mr. Speaker, we become the lender. The Province becomes the
lender, and the arrangements we have secured for these loans will ultimately
improve loan servicing for students.
The Province will continue to determine eligibility, Mr. Speaker, for student
loans and will continue to set our provincial loan policies, and that is
important because polices as it relates to interest relief, for example, or
grants in aid that may be available to our post-secondary students, these sorts
of policies will continue to be determined by the people of Newfoundland and
Labrador, by the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, and we will continue
to have jurisdiction over such important policies as it relates to our
post-secondary students.
The provincial office of Student Financial Services which presently is at
Coughlan College on the campus of Memorial University, will remain the same
level and will keep the same level of service that it presently provides. It
also means that the Province will establish its own lending authority to become
the direct lender of these loans. I would suggest, Mr. Speaker, if there is one
focus of this bill, of Bill 1, it is essentially the creating of, and the
establishing of, the funding authority, the legal authority by which this
Province, the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, can borrow money and
ultimately distribute money to the students of our Province.
The legislation authorizes the establishment of such a corporation that will
be called - and I am sure members opposite are familiar with this - the Student
Loan Corporation of Newfoundland and Labrador. Essentially, it is that
Corporation which will serve and act as the Province's banker for these loans.
So, we have in a sense, by virtue of this legislation, created an agency, Mr.
Speaker, that will be established to act essentially as the banker in lieu of
CIBC. The Loan Corporation, the Student Loan Corporation of Newfoundland and
Labrador, will be a separate legal entity whose job and mandate will be to
facilitate in the borrowing of these funds and essentially the distributing of
these funds in lieu of what we had several years ago, and essentially up until
the end of this month, actually, namely a chartered bank, and in particular the
Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce.
This whole arrangement, what has been contemplated, Mr. Speaker, from a time
point of view, is that this arrangement will come into effect as of the end of
March, March 31, of this year. That is why it is important that this piece of
legislation be debated. I look forward to debate by my colleagues opposite, but
it is important, as well, that we ensure that this legislation be in place to
assist in that transfer of responsibility from a chartered bank to this
Newfoundland and Labrador Student Loan Corporation.
Some of the main highlights, Mr. Speaker, that are featured in Bill 1 are:
that the Student Loan Corporation will be required to provide a full and
complete accounting of the Student Loan Program costs to the Province. So, there
will be that openness. There will be that information made available to the
public. It is important. It is important to know what this exercise obviously is
costing the public of Newfoundland and Labrador.
The Student Loan Corporation will be required to provide annual audited
financial statements which will be tabled in this House of Assembly for all
members to see and to share, obviously, with the public of the Province.
The Student Loan Corporation will have authority to borrow monies to finance
the student loans issued to students with the Province guaranteeing the full
performance of Student Loan Corporation obligations.
The Corporation will allow for loan conditions to be established by
regulation, allows for regulations to govern the transfer of the existing
student loans from CIBC to the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, and
facilitates loan administration with loans under the Canada Student Loans
Program.
These changes that we are recommending and are being submitted as part and
parcel of Bill 1, Mr. Speaker, ensure that the Corporation will report to me, as
the Minister of Education, with its board of directors being comprised of three
individuals, namely: the Deputy Minister of Education as Chair, the Deputy
Minister of Finance, and the Secretary of Treasury Board.
As I have indicated, Mr. Speaker, and in
summary, we require that these
legislative changes take effect no later than March 31, 2004, to allow for the
proper transfer of approximately $220 million in loans to the Province from
CIBC.
As indicated earlier as well, that date is critical because it is that date
when CIBC has given this Province notice that it is no longer in the student
loan business. That date is critical. That is perhaps why, I say to members
opposite, it is Bill 1 and why today we are in second reading of Bill 1,
An Act
To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act.
Mr. Speaker, as I said a few moments ago, this is good news. This is good
news for the post-secondary students of our Province. It was recognized by
members opposite as good news because, in fact, they were the government when
CIBC placed the Province on notice. It was recognized by members opposite that
this was a procedure that had to be carried out. It is certainly recognized by
members on this side of the House and recognized by all government members as
well, Mr. Speaker, that this is good news, because who will benefit? It will be
our students. It will be one application, it will be one loan payment, it will
be one service provider. It helps streamline and facilitate what is for many
people, Mr. Speaker, a very difficult and a very long drawn out experience: How
do you go about it? How do you fill out application forms?
What this does is, it helps facilitate what ordinarily and customarily is a
difficult process for many of our post-secondary students. It facilitates the
experience and, Mr. Speaker, again, the focus of Bill 1 is that this legislation
will create and establish a new corporation, a Student Loan Corporation of
Newfoundland and Labrador, a separate legal entity which will essentially borrow
and ultimately distribute funds to our many thousands of post-secondary students
of the Province.
As I have indicated, Mr. Speaker, it is good news. It has been supported by
our students. It has been supported, I know, by members opposite because in many
way they were part of having received notice that this, in fact, was going to be
done. I give members opposite some credit, that they have taken some steps to
initiate this procedure. I say that because it is important to some 30,000
students of our Province that this be facilitated and put in place.
Mr. Speaker, it is customary, of course, that during second reading we debate
this legislation and I am sure that members on both sides of the House will
want, in some way, to talk about either Bill 1 or some feature of the student
loan experience which is important to him or her. I do thank members opposite
and members on this side of the House for allowing me to have this opportunity
to introduce Bill 1, an important, serious piece of legislation for the people
of our Province.
AN HON. MEMBER: The first bill of our government.
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Yes, it is the first bill of our government.
MR. E. BYRNE: That is how important it is.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: My colleague, the Government House Leader, said: That is
how important it is.
What we are doing in Bill 1, we are paying tribute to the future of our
Province -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: - by putting in place what is in the best interest of
the young people of our Province, the post-secondary students of our Province,
who are saying to us as a government: Please complete this procedure to ensure
that what we have to live with in the whole student loan experience is assisted,
is impacted upon, and is improved.
In conclusion, I would submit to all members, Mr. Speaker, that Bill 1 does
that and I now look forward to participation from members opposite in this
important debate.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am actually delighted to stand and speak to Bill 1 today, because again it
is another Liberal initiative, as my colleague the Minister of Education so
rightly pointed out, and I am delighted to stand because, being the former
Minister of Youth and Post-Secondary Education, I actually did all the
groundwork on this particular bill.
MR. E. BYRNE: Are you supporting the bill?
MS THISTLE: You will find out my support as time rolls on, I say to the
Government House Leader.
What I would like to say firstly, Mr. Speaker, is that what the Minister of
Education neglected to mention - he talked about a very important date, March
31, that this would have to be done by - but what he neglected to mention was
that there was an option that government could exercise in this case. They did
not have to go with March 31; they could have gone with April 1. It would only
be a matter of the government of the day writing CIBC and letting them know that
they wanted to exercise that option.
Despite numerous requests through freedom of information, right up until
today, I do not have the information that I wanted in relation to this
particular bill. I have been denied, Mr. Speaker.
I asked for my Cabinet Paper. I spoke to the Clerk of the Council, wanting to
get my Cabinet Paper to go over the Cabinet direction that our previous
Administration had used for this Cabinet decision, and I have been denied my
Cabinet Paper.
Is this an open and accountable government? Is this a transparent government?
What kind of a book was it you put out? What kind of a book did this government
put out? Wait now just a minute, I think it was called the Tory Blue Book. No,
scratch that off; it is called the Tory blueprint. That is what it is called.
Your new Premier wants to call it the blueprint.
Anyway, Mr. Speaker -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, could I have some peace and quite here to
discuss this matter?
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.
MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, you are talking about the 100 days of the new
government. In the 100 days of the previous new government there was a new
Department of Youth Services and Post-Secondary Education set up. It was set up
because young people came to us and said: We want our issues aired. Youth,
education and employment are so important in our Province, we want our own
separate youth and post-secondary education.
Now, what did the new government do in their first 100 days? They gutted the
new Youth and Post-Secondary Education Department. That is what they did, they
gutted it. Good-bye. That is what they did.
You talk about $220 million. What is the real reason you are here today
wanting this to get done by March 31? Tell me, what is the real reason? Is it to
justify this? PricewaterhouseCoopers, $115,000 to get this so-called independent
external financial study done. They spent all of their time getting that
information from your staff. You know what? I have to question you on that
later.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the members if we could have the discussion and direct the discussion
through the Speaker. Exchanges across the House, and pointing at one another,
this kind of thing, are inappropriate. I ask the member to continue her debate
and ask the indulgence of the members here that it be done in some silence.
MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Anyway, as I was saying, this $220 million, I do not think we can call that a
debt. We can call that an investment in our students. Let me tell you, that is
not going to remain on our books. That is going to be repaid. Yes, we have a
default rate; everybody knows that. Everybody knows we have a default rate in
student loans, but the majority of that money is going to be paid off. You have
an option as the government. You can put that on your books for March 31, or by
goodness you can put it on for April 1. It is your choice, but it is all about
justifying this report so you can inflate the cash deficit.
Getting back to Bill 1, as I said previously, being the former Minister of
Youth and Post-Secondary Education, all of the groundwork was done by the former
Administration. You just had to sign on the dotted line. What is very important
is that this will streamline the business for students in this Province, and I
will agree with you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MS THISTLE: I will agree with you, that is the main thrust of this bill,
so students can have one payment to make; however, you said that you were going
to improve the well-being of students in this Province. Did it take a protest by
students to get you to freeze the tuition?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MS THISTLE: Oh, yes, it did! It took a protest, placards and protests all
around the Province to bring this government to their knees and say: Okay, we
will freeze tuition.
Whereas, the former government were able to provide a 25
per cent reduction in tuition fees at MUN.
I wonder if the Finance Minister would be so quick to jump to his heels now
and say that he did not have the lowest tuition rate in Canada? Because we do
have the lowest rate of tuition in Canada, at our Memorial University.
I want to say that the idea of us, as a Province, having to take on the
commitment of student loans is one we did not anticipate, but it is a trend by
the big banks these days, they are getting out of that business. They would
rather be doing other business, more lucrative business. As a Province, we
always had to guarantee that $220 million, whether it was on our books or the
books of any major chartered bank. Really, it is a transfer as such but I do not
know what the hoopla is about. In one sense it is adding to our deficit, but it
is being repaid. From the moment we take it and put it on our books, students
are starting to make payments on that debt.
Mr. Speaker, I want to say some of the remarks by the Minister of Education.
He said, we are trying to enhance the quality of education and give students
hope for the future. Mr. Speaker, I wonder if this new government will give the
students the attention they deserve. While we were government we had a group
called the Newfoundland and Labrador Youth Advisory Committee. That was a very
important committee, and it should be today. Many of the changes that were
brought about over the past couple of years happened because students on this
Committee gave us information when we were a government and we put it into
action.
Another thing, Mr. Speaker: We have a conservation corp out here that does a
lot of good work. There is a budget line in - I guess it will be called the
Department of Education now - in the former budget that gave this group $500,000
a year. I wonder now, Mr. Speaker, will this new government, that you and your
colleagues represent, being paying attention to the conservation corp?
You say, Minister of Education, that you will be establishing an new entity
called the student loan corporation of Newfoundland and Labrador. I notice that
you have indicated that you have a three-member group on this new entity, the
Deputy Minister of Education, the Deputy Minister of Finance and the Secretary
of Treasury Board. Isn't this new bill all about students? Wouldn't it seem
appropriate that a representative of students be on this particular entity? That
will be one of the amendments that I will be suggesting as we move forward with
discussing this bill.
You talk about streamlining the process! It is funny, you know, when we
started out on this adventure about eighteen months ago, in trying to find a
lender who would accommodate us and take the student loan portfolio, we looked
all around, we did requests for proposals and we ended up not finding the
proper, I guess, accommodation until we decided later that we would join forces
with the federal government and end up with one payment for students which is
the ideal one.
Students don't really mind how the bookkeeping aspect is performed. The
only interest they have is getting their student loan, getting it on time,
getting a good interest rate - actually, they would rather have grants than
loans - making sure they are able to get their payments made and making their
payments conveniently. That is all students want, and I think this is a good
choice for students.
I wanted to expound on some of the positive things that have led to this. I
would like to talk about some of the things that we were able to bring to
students from the former administration. The last revamp of student loans was
actually August, 2002, by the former Minister of Youth and Post-Secondary
Education. That did not happen by chance. That happened because students around
the Province came to us, as the former administration, and they said: We want
changes made, huge changes. This is what happened: Because of all those changes
in August, 2002, students will readily tell you, we are setting the model right
across the country.
In fact, last June I had a meeting with Jane Stewart, at that time, and I
told her about all the things that we had done for students in our Province. I
said: You know, a federal election is looming within the next twelve months. Why
don't you bring this information to your counterparts and see if the federal
government can make the same changes? Because one of the biggest problems was
that we did all that we could do, as a Province, in providing, actually, free
tuition, in a sense. If they got through their undergraduate degree in the right
time frame, their loan was virtually paid off on the provincial side, but I
think it is high time that the federal government look at what we have done as a
Province and make those changes. Now is the time to do it. When you ask
students, that is the number one issue on their plates: student borrowings,
student education and the cost of education.
Some of the things that we have been able to do is that we have made student
loans more affordable. Students are eligible for student loans for the normal
length of a program plus we give them a grace period of up to two semesters. In
addition to that, if students have problems with disabilities, or if you are a
single parent, there are provisions for appeal for all of these that were not in
it two years ago.
I think what is very important is that we have had a great record of
providing quality education. I had occasion recently to talk to some medical
students and it is interesting how times have changed over the past ten years.
Once the greatest makeup of applicants to our medical program were males, and
now 60 per cent of the applicants in our medical school are females. Look how
the tables have turned and things have reversed. You know, in our Province of
Newfoundland and Labrador, we graduate the most general practitioners out of any
other medical school in the country.
I want to say how proud I am of our board at the Central West Health Care
Board. We have had the best record of recruiting family practitioners. The other
boards are not aware of what we are doing, but our people are going right in
there, to medical school. They are telling them what a great lifestyle we have
in Central Newfoundland and they are accommodating them. I think that has been
the main thing, in that we have been so successful in attracting new doctors to
Central Newfoundland and we have not had much of a problem in being without
doctors for a very long period.
Another thing that we have been able to bring in as a former Administration -
I do not know if students in the future will have the ear for government as they
did in the past - having a separate department just for young people, for youth
and post-secondary education, and not only youth and post-secondary education
because there are so many facets to youth and post-secondary education. There is
also employment. There was a committee called the Student Investment Corporation
that looks after all of the summer employment for students, and even full-time
employment. These are all good things that have come about through our former
Administration.
It will be interesting to watch the Budget Debate, some time in April. That
is an unusual step in itself. I do not know if I ever saw a provincial Budget
being delayed to April of any particular year, but I am sure that they have
their reasons for it and hopefully there will be something good come out of that
Budget for students.
We have been so successful in the past in providing employment for students
throughout the summer through our Student Investment Corporation. Of course,
most of the jobs that are provided for students come out of rural Newfoundland.
I do not know if it will get the same focus in Cabinet this year, because I know
that most of the makeup of Cabinet for this new government would be basically
out of St. John's and urban Newfoundland and Labrador. Oh, no, forget
Labrador, excuse me. There is no Cabinet representation from Labrador. I almost
made a mistake. Sorry about that.
The Cabinet decisions that will be made in the upcoming Budget in April will
be made by Cabinet Ministers that represent urban Newfoundland. Isn't that
amazing? How do people in rural Newfoundland feel, knowing that the decisions
that are going to be made, that are going to affect rural Newfoundland - we have
already heard it in the Throne Speech, that the new government are looking at
ways they can deliver health care more effective and more efficient -
AN HON. MEMBER: Openly.
MS THISTLE: Openly. We know what more effective and more efficient mean.
We know what those two words are.
MR. REID: We know what Ross Wiseman means when he talks about, we have to
look for efficiencies.
MS THISTLE: We know what that means. That means that this new government
are no doubt directing health care in urban centres and they are shutting down
rural Newfoundland and Labrador. That is what that means. That is exactly what
that means. So, if I were out in rural Newfoundland and Labrador today - and I
represent a portion of rural Newfoundland and Labrador. Urban and rural is my
district, so I well know what it is like to represent both sides of the
equation, and how important health care is.
This government claims that they are facing a financial mess. Well, well,
well! They have been on their heels here for years demanding money, every day of
the week that the House was open and the days it was not open. I can stand up on
my heels today and I can proudly say that I make no apologizes for any money
that was spent in the District of Grand Falls-Buchans.
A new mobile MRI for Central Newfoundland, do you think we will ever see a
mobile MRI in Central Newfoundland? Do you think we will ever see that? A $10
million seniors care home in Grand Falls-Windsor, called Carmelite; a new
$100,000 in provincial funding for a new YMCA child learning centre.
Now, dialysis, bone density machines, water and sewer, new water for Buchans
MR. E. BYRNE: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.
I am always interested to hear members of this House, but I do have to ask
this question: What does water and sewer have to do with a Student Financial
Assistance Act and a student loan agency?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: For example, what does water and sewer have to do with the
bill we are debating? Now, if the member wants to debate water and sewer we will
give her the opportunity when we get to Interim Supply, but today we are
debating the future of students in Newfoundland and Labrador, Bill 1, the
Student Financial Assistance Act.
Let me say this finally, Mr. Speaker, the member has asked the question: Will
we ever see a mobile MRI in Grand Falls-Buchans? Let me ask her this, from 1996
to 2003 she was a member of the government and a minister of Cabinet: Is there
one during your tenure?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Chair rules that there is no point of order. However,
the Chair would like to refer members to Marleau and Montpetit, which is on page
532, where it says: There is some temptation in second reading to delve into
other issues.
I ask the member, in terms of being relevant, that she should either show
relevancy or it should be obvious to the members of the House.
MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, I guess it is quite clear (inaudible) House of
Assembly. Let me tell you, I grew up in rural Newfoundland and if you do not
have water and sewer services, as a student you cannot learn very well.
I want to say, Mr. Speaker, that students in this Province are better off
today as a result of a Liberal government, and they are better off because they
have the best tuition in the country. They have tuition rates frozen at the
College of the North Atlantic, the Marine Institute, and Memorial University
Medical School. Now, isn't that wonderful? We can get up on our feet, all of
us in this House today, and say that we have the lowest tuition rate in the
country; with the exception of Quebec, Mr. Minister of Finance.
In fact, taxation year 2003 brought another feature, and that was the
Newfoundland and Labrador student loan tax credit. Every student who files their
income tax this year, and pays on a student loan in this Province, has a chance
to get a deduction.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, I cannot speak here.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.
MS THISTLE: How things have changed in the matter of a few months! Now I
expect if your Premier were here I would be able to hear a pin drop.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MS THISTLE: Last year was a wonderful year for student employment.
Already (inaudible) applications have gone out. I think there are a lot of
questions out there in the general public today: Will students get jobs this
summer? How much money is this new government going to put into student
employment? Do you look at it as a priority, or will you expect the private
sector to pick it up? How can you expect the private sector to pick it up when
you dampened the economy January 5? They are still reeling. They are not going
to hire anybody new until they find out what is in that budget and they are not
going to find that out until - when is it? April or May is it?
AN HON. MEMBER: I do not know.
MS THISTLE: April or May, I think. By that time, if you are going to do
anything for tourism it will be well done.
I would like to say, Mr. Speaker, that over 7,000 people - and they are all
students - in our Province have been helped through student employment since
2001. I am very proud, and we are very proud of that record. I am very proud of
the fact that no matter what kind of a call I got from the Opposition, while I
was the member I did my utmost to make sure that those member's constituents
got jobs, and I hope you will be just as accommodating to us in the spring.
Mr. Speaker, I want to get back to the so-called importance of March 31,
2004. On our own student loan application, that you can just print off our Web
site, it says: the deadline for applying for a student loan is four weeks from
the first day of classes for the current semester. Everybody knows that if you
are a full-time student in this Province you have already made your application
last August and September. The third semester, it requires a supplementary
application. You have already been approved last summer, so there is no panic to
get this done by March 31. But, as a new government -
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: Order please!
MS THISTLE: As a new government you have chosen to make sure that this
was done by March 31, not to accommodate students because it makes zero effect
to students. It is all about accommodating - what is this report?
PricewaterhouseCoopers - all about accommodating this report.
We had an economist from university and he said it is not new news, none of
this stuff. He said all of these predictions about a $1 billion deficit is too
misleading. He said I have no notion exactly what the consultants were told.
MR. SULLIVAN: Which economist?
MS THISTLE: Never mind, you will find out.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MS THISTLE: These consultants very clearly say in their report: If
nothing changes we may be looking at these kinds of deficits.
As a new government you campaigned on a new approach to growing the economy.
Yet, you went out and told your consultant: Put the reins on, we are not going
to grow the economy. We are not going to grow the economy. Listen, we need those
figures to stay black - yes, we would like them to be black. We want those
figures negative. We do not want you to say that our economy is going to grow,
because that is going to affect those bottom line figures. It is going to look
too good. We do not want you to do that. You know something? We want you, Mr.
Consultant -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
They hired this economist, and they say: Now listen, do not just call it a
financial review of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. We want more meat
on the bones than that. We have a tough sell here. We want to make it something
special. He said, go back again. He said, go back.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS THISTLE: He said, okay, here is your title: directions, choices and
touch choices. Now run with that and sell it. Run with it and sell it.
That was not enough -
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) notes.
MS THISTLE: I am not going back to any notes; I am going back to your
notes. I am not going back to any notes. I do not need any notes.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS THISTLE: This is another, PricewaterhouseCoopers. You only asked for
the financial picture of the Province, and this is what they put in their
report: Areas of concern include, deterioration of the Province's budgetary
performance during an election year. Now, what business is that of a consultant?
You only asked for the figures; you did not ask for that extra text.
Today we are standing here talking about Bill 1, a bill for the students of
this Province, the Student Financial Assistance Act, and the bill is a good
bill.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS THISTLE: The bill is a bill that I initiated, and my former
government.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MS THISTLE: It was not one that was in the making. First you had a Blue
Book, but no, that might hold you accountable if you had a Blue Book. You want
to call it a blueprint, so it could be changing every minute. I think everybody
should read it because with six months in office you have not gotten much of
this completed yet. Six months in office, I think you can count on one hand what
you have been able to do, and that one hand was forced by this side over here.
MR. SULLIVAN: Where did you get six months? Six months would be
(inaudible).
MS THISTLE: You are into your sixth month. You are the Finance Minister.
You are into your sixth month and you have not gotten anything done in that book
yet.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MS THISTLE: Relax, we have lots of time here.
I was surprised, Mr. Speaker, that the House Leader for the Government side
stood in this House on Thursday and he gave Notice of Motion that we would be
sitting morning, noon and night.
AN HON. MEMBER: He never said morning.
MS THISTLE: Yes he did. He said he was not going to close Sunday. If he
is not going to close Sunday, how do you get out of the morning?
AN HON. MEMBER: Afternoon and night.
MS THISTLE: Well, if you are working the clock twenty-four hours you have
to come into morning sometime.
Now, I cannot understand this.
MR. E. BYRNE: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: On a point of order, the Government House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Is the member complaining because we are going to give her
all the time she needs and every other member the time to debate stuff? We come
here to work. We are going to open the House -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: The people of the Province sent this government here to do
work and guess what folks? We intend on doing it.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Now if that means, Mr. Speaker, that we open up from 1:30
p.m to 5:30 p.m. and from 7:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. and from 10:00 p.m. to 10:00
the next morning, guess what? We are going to do that too.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order. There is a disagreement between
members but there is no substantive point of order.
The hon. the Member for Grand Falls- Buchans.
MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Well, it is very important that the Government House Leader stood on his feet
and said that he is going to put his shoulder to the wheel and he is going to be
here as long as it takes. Well, now, that is a big change from the
article that
was in Maclean's where your leader had no interest in being in the
House. In fact, we are into our sixth month now and this is day one of real
business. So, let me tell you what is the panic now for morning, noon and
night?, when you could have been here last November.
AN HON. MEMBER: A lot to straighten up.
MS THISTLE: If you had a lot to straighten up you should have been here.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS THISTLE: Then again you would not know that, you do not get in on any
caucus information, I heard.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS THISTLE: Got a radio here, and The Telegram and some print
media. You would never know what was going on, according to the January 5
speech, when you had to find out after the televison what your Premier was going
to say.
Anyway, Mr. Speaker, I have a couple of amendments that I intend to bring
forward in the next reading probably.
What I wanted to say is that the Education Minister today talked about a
three-party committee, and that is totally within government. No student
representation. I cannot imagine how you would leave out the representation of
the main user of the program, the students. Anyway, that is what this House is
for, to have thoughtful debate amongst the people who are standing in the House
and representing people, and that will an the amendment that I will be offering,
probably during the next reading.
You say that the Student Loan Corporation will have to provide full
accountability to the Province, but yet you did not describe how that
accountability would be. I know that there is a role for investment of those
funds. That was not described as to what safeguards and mechanisms which would
be put into this bill with regard to investment of that huge portfolio.
Hopefully, you will be able to give us clarification on that matter in the days
to come.
The Minister of Education spoke about what the new Tory government is doing
to assist students reduce their debt burdens. This particular bill will not
reduce student debt burden. It is going to be a convenience for students but it
will not write off any debts that they had in the past. It will be just a
transfer from one entity to the other. So that, in itself, will not reduce any
student debt burden, I would like to mention to the Minister of Education. Yes,
it is one student, one loan, and that is a convenience. Students are not
concerned about the actual bookkeeping, the administration. They want to know
that if they make a payment it will go on their loan and someone else can look
after the bookkeeping part.
Consultations that you said you did. Who did you consult with? We had all the
groundwork done. Everything was done. There was no consultation on your part. To
the best of my knowledge, all you had to do was sign on a line.
Again, you said your government is proud of what they have done to reduce
student debt. You held the line on tuition. You did not reduce it any further.
You held the line. You froze tuition. You did not reduce it any further. So, I
guess that is leaving you room to make that new announcement in your Budget of
April or May, whenever it is.
The Province, in essence, has always been the guarantor of that money, no
matter which chartered bank held it on their books. In case of default, we were
always responsible. In case of service fees for administering that particular
portfolio, the Province was always responsible. What we have now is, yes, we are
now going to be the main banker. All other situations will remain the same. I
would think what you are trying to do now is improve federal-provincial
relations.
One of the first things that you should tackle would be parental requirement
on student loans. Many parents today are saddled with the burden of having to
get a line of credit or a personal loan to assist their sons and daughters
because they do not get approved for a student loan because of the parents
income level.
So I would suggest that would be a starting point, if you are trying to
improve federal-provincial relations. Go to them and see if they can make an
adjustment in that, because we see lots of times today - it might sound like a
working couple, a husband and wife are making a good income, but everybody who
has a mortgage and other commitments today to take care of, it would be very
difficult to have to go outside of the normal student loan process and get a
line of credit or a bank loan to make sure your student is able to go to
university or a training college.
I have had people call me, they are harnessed to death with mortgages and
loans on their own. Parents have actually had to max out their credit cards to
go and finance a tuition of education for their son or daughter. I know it is
currently beyond the Province's ability to make those changes because the
Province always looks at the rules for the federal government. That would be a
great starting point and it would be a terrific benefit for young people if you
could convince the federal government to make changes in that direction. That
would be worthwhile and meaningful for students and parents in this Province.
Also, I want to talk a bit about the fact of disabled students in this
Province. They now have a chance to have their loans paid off, or repaid in full
for an undergraduate degree. They have more time than a person who is physically
able to complete an undergraduate degree in the eight semesters. This is one of
the great things that came to our attention from the Youth Advisory Board, the
Federation of Students, and many other student groups.
When you look at the fact that the students in our Province are doing well,
no matter where they go, we are - there is a report called Fast Forward that I
put out when I was the Minister of Youth and Post-Secondary Education. Out of
the tracking of five years of our post-secondary students, do you know
something? Eighty-six percent of those students were employed. Lots of time you
hear that we have the highest unemployment rate in all of Canada, but when you
compare what it was from 1996 to today, there have been great strides made in
employment. A lot of young people are deciding to stay in Newfoundland and
Labrador.
I can tell you one thing, that speech of January 5 by your Premier, our
Premier, was certainly disheartening for young people and those who are choosing
to make their careers and live in Newfoundland and Labrador and raise a family.
There was absolutely nothing in that speech that would give anybody any hope to
put down roots in our Province.
Out of the report that was tracking students for five years, there were 6,900
graduates whom we tracked in there, and 86 per cent of them were employed and
only 7 per cent were unemployed. Out of that 7 per cent, 3 per cent were trying
to improve their education and 4 per cent said that they were in activities they
didn't like and were going to try to get out of that job situation and further
their education. In 2000-2001, 86 per cent of the graduates reported employment.
You know, that was up from 68 per cent in 1996.
There are a lot of good measures already in place for students in our
Province. I think students, when you talk to them - I have been into MUN several
times and I have talked to students, I have talked to students all over this
Province and they will tell you, the most important thing they are troubled with
is the cost of education.
Now, the former administration that I was a part of, and everybody over here,
made great strides in making sure that our post-secondary students had
accessible and affordable education. You know, there is only so much you can do
as a Province, no matter what stripe your government is. I feel proud standing
here today, when I can rhyme off - and all students will tell you, you ask the
Federation of Students, you ask any students in this Province, it is easier for
them to get an education today because of the changes that were made. We still
need improvement. Students still need to have more grant systems rather than
loans. If you ask a student what would ensure them a brighter future and a
better education they will say, we want free education, but, you know, we are
not there yet. We cannot provide free education, we do not have the financial
means.
What we have been able to do, in the past three years especially, is make it
a little bit easier, entice students to complete their studies sooner than they
have in the past. By doing that, we have been able to reward them and actually
pay off their students loans if they finished on time.
For unusual cases, there has been an appeal mechanism where students who
might have had a medical problem, a family issue, a disability, any number of
those things, could actually come to the appeal board, state their case and nine
times out of ten they would have their appeal approved.
What can we do, or what can you do, you are now the government? I think you
have to look at who will be here to run this Province in the next years. We all
know that by 2030, one-third of the people in this Province will be over
sixty-five. Now, the people of the Province spoke on October 21, 2003. You have
an overwhelming majority of members in your government for the first time in
fourteen years. I think the only one who did better was former Premier Brian
Tobin. He had more members, by two, I believe, than your government where you
sit now today. The people have spoken, they have given you a tremendous mandate.
Thirty-two members you have there on your side of the House and all eyes are on
your side of the House to deliver, in a fine fashion, a new economy as you
talked about in your Blue Book.. There is a lot of weight, a lot of
responsibility, on your shoulders and I think it would be arrogant on your part
to dismiss the needs of the people. I saw that today in Question Period. I was
surprised, I was very surprised, because when you were the Opposition and we
were the government that was the first thing that you took us to task on, not
giving full answers. Today, I was surprised by the arrogance shown by your
government. I hope that is not what the people of this Province will see in the
days ahead, because if you are going to have the people of the Province on your
side, as you got October 21, you have to show a compassionate side.
Health care in this Province is the number one issue, no matter where you go.
You can ask it in my district and I bet you if you asked it - maybe it would not
be in St. John's, maybe it would not be on the Avalon Peninsula, because
everything you need is here. You do not need to go anywhere else unless there is
such a complicated -
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MS THISTLE: I do not think you need to go outside of our Province, but
for people from the Northern Peninsula, for people from Labrador, for people
from Buchans, for people from Burin, for people from the South Coast, all of
those people have to come to St. John's one time or another to get specialized
services, so maybe it is not as important. The Centre of Learning is here in St.
John's.
As a university committee in Central Newfoundland we had hoped that we would
establish a Central Newfoundland university in Grand Falls-Windsor. The study is
now complete. I know that study might already be on your desks today as I speak.
Our current Mayor, Mayor Walwin Blackmore, headed that committee and he did
tremendous work along with many other volunteers. Grand Falls-Windsor has been
seen as a catalyst for growth in recent years and we are turning out a lot of
students. We have a great need for an expansion to our university presence
there. Whether we will see it through your mandate is debatable at this point,
but I will tell you that the young peop