Volume XL ruesday Province of Newfoundland FORTIETH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND Third Session VERBATIM REPORT (Hansard) Speaker: Honourable Patrick McNicholas ·. Number 12 17 March 1987

The House met at 3:00 p.m. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): Order, please! MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The bon. Leader. the Government House MR. OTTENHEIMER: Before we proceed with Statements by Ministers I would like to remind the House, and draw to the House's notice, that this is the eighth anniversary of the election of the then, and indeed the still, bon. the member for Green Bay (Premier Peckford) as Leader of the Progressive Conservative Party. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. OTTENHEIMER: While St.

Patrick's Day is traditionally celebrated throughout Newfoundland in honour of the great Saint himself, and perhaps even in honour of our illustrious Speaker, it may also be celebrated by some in honour of the Premier. I am sure all han. members join me in congratulating the hon. the Premier, hon. members on both sides, and I would suggest including the two hon. members on the other side who participated in the same event. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. BARRY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. BARRY: L619 March 17, 1987 Vol XL Mr.

Speaker, we join with the Government House Leader in expressing congratulations to the Premier on having survived yet one more anniversary. Mr. Speaker, on this side of the House, some of us who have participated in events of that nature are still finding that the thrill of the chase is still there and that in recent days we have seen that chase becoming even hotter.

We look forward, over the next couple of months, to being in a position once again to enjoy with the Premier the solidarity which from time to time he has enjoyed, and we look forward to having the opportunity, in the not too distant future, to be able to invite the Premier to take that well-deserved rest which he is about to obtain. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Before calling for Statements by Ministers, I do not have to remind all hon. members that today is the official St.

Patrick's Day, March 17, and it it my pleasure to welcome to the Speaker's gallery His Excellency Shaun Gainer, the Irish Ambassador to Canada, and Mrs Gainer. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: If I may, I would like to bring an Irish greeting to all. Beannactha na Feile Padhraig Dhibh go leir agus go mbeimid beo . ar an am seo aris. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! No. 12 R619

MR. BARRY: Without unduly delaying the House, Mr. Speaker, in addition to, of course, welcoming the Ambassador and hoping he has a good stay, I would like to point out that some of us who do not have any green showing, it is because we are Irish all year round, like the Ambassador. MR. SPEAKER: I know some bon. members may not understand my Irish, so for their benefit I would like to translate that greeting. It is the blessings of St. Patrick's Day to you all and may we all be alive and well this time next year. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

SPEAKER: I would also like to welcome to the galleries the Mayor of Trinity, in the district of Bonavista North, Mr. Ernest Rogers. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! Statements by Ministers PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker. HR. SPEAKER: The bon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: I thought the reason why the Leader of the Opposition was not wearing green was because he would be green with envy. I have a statement here that I would like to give, Mr. Sp'eaker ..

I am sure that all bon. members who have been following the curling action at the Brier last L620 March 17, 1987 Vol XL week were delighted by the showing of the Mark Noseworthy rink from the St. John's Curling Club. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PREMIER PECKFORD: Newfoundland placed third overall in the competition with an eight and three record, and in addition Hark Noseworthy was named to the second all-star team at the end of the tournament.

It is somewhat sad, therefore, that despite the excellent showing of the Newfoundland rink, they were not selected as one of the three teams to attend the Olympic trials for curling -Canada/France all over again. The Adams rink from Quebec, which finished in fifth place with a six and five record, was chosen· instead as the third rink to attend the trials, along with first place Ontario and second place British Columbia. In light of this decision, I have President-Elect of disappointing telexed the the Canadian Curling Association outlining our deep discontent.

I have also telexed the Honourable Otto Jelinek, Minister of State for Fitness and Amateur Sport, requesting that he investigate the process which led to the decision to disregard the Noseworthy rink. Nevertheless, this negative decision should not overshadow the excellent sporting accomplishment of the Newfoundland team. I am sure all honourable members will join with me in extending the congratulations of this Honourable House to Mark Noseworthy and his team of Randy Perry, Gene Trickett and Rob Thomas. SOME HON. MEMBERS: No. 12 R620

Hear, hear! MR. BARRY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition. MR. BARRY: Leader of the Mr. Speaker, we join fully and wholeheartedly in the Premier's statement. However, we invite the Premier to go a bit fut"thet". Prior to coming to the House today, members on this side agreed that we would seek a resolution, pending unanimous approval by the House. MR. DAWE: We? MR. BARRY: Yes, we, in our caucus, because we believe that in sports as in politics it should not be a matter of discretion, the test should be the win.

The Newfoundland team came third, they had their metal tested in the pt"ocess of competition, and that is how sporting events evaluate who is entitled or who is not entitled to participate in events such as the Olympics or the Olympic tt"ials. It is very dangerous when we get an element of discretion which involves all sorts of subjective analysis by those doing the evaluating. We would submit, Mr.

Speaker, that there should be a unanimous t"esolution of this House, and we suggest to the Premier and the Government House Leader that they join with us, and we invite the members on our right, as well, to join with us in expressing the unanimous disapproval · of this · House for the action taken in ignoring the Mark Noseworthy performance and to see if there is any way at all L621 March 17, 1987 Vol XL possible that the reversed so as to Noseworthy and his Olympic trials. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the · Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: decision be include Mark team at the We will agree, Mr.

Speaker. If rept"esentatives of the tht"ee parties get together and work out a resolution which is acceptable to all three, then we can put it before the House at some appropriate time during the afternoon and have it passed. MR. BARRY: Sure. MR. FENWICK: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the member for Menihek. MR. FENWICK: Mr. Speaker, we would like to echo the sentiments of both the Premier and the Leader of the Opposition and say that we, too, are quite proud of the Noseworthy rink and what they accomplished. We, as well, are dismayed that they are not being invited to the Olympic Trials.

I would like to point out one thing, because it has been mentioned to me a dozen times since I returned home from the convention, and that is that we had nothing to do with cutting off the end of the semi-final game, it was a decision of the television network, and we were just as irate as everybody else, since we were trying to follow the game ourselves. · We will be very happy No. 12 R621

to participate in the unanimous resolution. MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the Minister of Mines and Housing. MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker, as Minister responsible for Housing, I am pleased to advise members that the Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation will be engaging in a comprehensive assessment of social housing needs across the Province. I take great pleasure, Mr. Speaker, in announcing that this assessment will be the first of its kind in the Province devoted to a measurement of relative provincial housing needs.

The purpose of this study, therefore, is to establish a framework for determining social housing need priorities. To assist Newfoundland and Labrador Housing in this major research initiative and resulting from a recent public proposal call, the local consulting firm of D.W. Knight Associates has been selected to carry out this work. Mr. Knight • s firm will be joined by Ekes Research Associates, a company which has extensive knowledge and expertise in the area of housing research. Coincident with the development of a comprehensive assessment of housing needs, Mr.

Speaker, the Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation will be engaging in an extensive public consultation process which will involve a se~ies of seminars/workshops throughout the various regions of the Province. Through this consultation · process all municipalities and organizations L622 March 17, 1987 Vol XL representing low income families, senior citizens and special interest groups, as well as individuals with an involvement or need for housing, will be invited to come forward with their ideas on how social housing objectives can best be met in the Province. Mr.

Speaker, I wish to call upon all members of the . House to encourage interested groups and individuals who are known to them, to participate in this process. In this regard as well, an extensive publicity campaign will be undertaken to ensure that all individuals and groups who are affected by this special review ·are included in this most important study. In the past, Mr. Speaker, waiting list information and/or requests from individuals or groups for housing services have been the main criteria for distributing housing resources.

Such information, however, does not necessarily reflect a complete or truly accurate picture of housing need within the Province. In large measure this situation has resulted from the split in housing responsibility which previously existed between the provincial and federal housing agencies in terms of programme delivery. However, with the finalizing of the global agreement on social housing between the federal and provincial governments in mid 1986, the previous method of allocation is no longer satisfactory and must be refined to reflect a more precise measure of -provincial housing need. For this reason, Mr.

Speaker, I am delighted that we, as a Province, will be able to influence the targeting of available social housing programmes in keeping with our own criteria and define the relative need -· of all communi ties and No. 12 R622

special needs groups requiring assistance. Accordingly, the so-called .. one stop shopping.. for housing services in this Province through the provincial housing agency will be fully realized. In conclusion, Kr. Speaker, I wish to advise members that the Corporation is committed to this provincial housing needs study and public consultation process, and together these components will combine to enable the development of a multi-year housing strategy for the Province.

This strategy . will focus on the identification of priority housing needs, the formulation of programme responses to meet these needs and related financial planning of required resources . Indeed, I look forward to the completion of this major initiative by late Fall, as it will enable a rational and planned approach to the provision of social housing programmes and services in the Province for years to come. Thank you, Kr. Speaker. MR. K. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the member for Stephenville. MR. K. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to thank the minister for sending me a copy of the statement. We also, in the Opposition, welcome the announcement that they are going to do a reassessment. The minister says that they are trying to get a rational and planned approach to the provision of social housing prog~amme and services in the Province. Well, · Mr.· Speaker, I have to tell you that it ·is about time that they are finally going to get around to trying to do something about it.

L623 Karch 17, 1987 Vol XL Because in this Province there is a crisis in social housing; there is not enough, for one thing; there is also a problem with the way in which it is allocated, and people cannot afford to live there. As a matter of fact, I have constitutents, and other members on this side have constituents who are getting thrown out of social housing because they cannot pay the rent, supposedly, and they are being sent legal bills from Newfoundland and Labrador Housing because the lawyers for the Housing Corporation cost so much money.

So while they are looking at it, they are planning a comprehensive assessment and everything else, I would ask the minister to take these other things under advisement and do something about them quickly, because there is a crisis out there in the system. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. FENWICK: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the member for Menihek. MR. FENWICK: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. We, too, are pleased to see the initiative by the Minister responsible for Housing (Mr. Dinn).

In the last couple of years, it has been my experience that we have received a tremendous number of calls from individuals who have a very difficult time getting into social housing especially, sometimes indicating waiting lists of 200 or 300 people ahead of them. It is certainly helpful that the provincial government will now be addressing the question of exactly how long those lists are, and what kinds of No. 12 R623

needs we have. It is encouraging to see this kind of social planning going on. It is unfortunate we have not been able to do it in the past. But now, maybe, we will at least have a good handle on what the needs are, and hopefully be able to respond to those needs over the coming years. MR. SPEAKER: Any further Statements By Minister? MS VERGE: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice. MS VERGE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to inform the House of Assembly that Chief Donald Randell of the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary has decided to retire from the Force on August 31, of this year.

Chief Randell, who was born in Port Rexton, has had a varied and distinguished career with the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary, which has spanned more than thirty years. Chief Randell joined the Force on May 5, 1956, and performed highway patrol duties for the first year. In 195 7 , he moved to the Criminal Investigation Division and was promoted to Sergeant in 1967. He was further promoted to the rank of Head Constable in 1970. In 1971, Chief Randell became a Detective Lieutenant and was in charge of detective field activities for the Force.

He was made a Dectective Inspector in 19"76·, and. in 1980, was appointed Deputy Chief of Police. He was 1984, L624 made Chief of Police and as Chief, he in has March 17, 1987 Vol XL overseen major growth and significant improvement in the Constabulary. Under his leadership the Force grew to its present size of 382 members and expanded its geographic jurisdiction beyond St. John • s to the Northeast Avalon area, Labrador West and Corner Brook. Chief Randell is a graduate of the Canadian Police College and has been an active member of the Atlantic Provinces Association of Chiefs of Police. Mr.

Speaker, on behalf of the Government, I extend gratitude to Chief Randell for the exmemplary way he has discharged his duties and responsibilities as Chief of Police. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to inform the House Assembly that the Lieutenant-Governor in Council has approved the appointment of Deputy Chief, Edward Coady as the new Chief of Police, effective September 1 of this year. Deputy Chief Coady, a native of St.

John's, joined the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary in 1980, following twenty-four years with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and one year as Director of Emergency Measures with the Provincial Government. Deputy Chief Coady served with the R.C.M.P. in New Brunswick, Harbour Grace, St. John's and Ottawa. In 1969, he became a Sergeant and worked as a supervisor in the R.C.K.P. Career Planning Branch. In 1973, he was promoted to the rank of Staff Sergeant and became a Senior Programme Analyst responsible for planning, development and administration of the R.C.K.P. National Airport Policing Programme.

In 1978, he No. 12 R624

served as a Senior Advisor in the R.C.M.P. Staffing and Personnel Branch in ottawa. In 1979, he retired from the R.C.M.P. and returned to Newfoundland to assume the position of Director of Emergency Measures for the Province. In 1980, he was appointed Deputy Chief of Police (Administration) of the R.N. C. Deputy Chief Coady was directly responsible for the planning and development phases of the expansion of the Force to the Northeast Avalon, Labrador West and Corner Brook. Deputy Chief Coady brings a wealth of operational and administrative police experience to his new position.

As well, he is a graduate · of the Canadian Police College and the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration College. On behalf of the government, I extend congratulations and best wishes to Deputy Chief Coady for the challenges that lie ahead. MR. BARRY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The bon. Opposition. MR. BARRY: the Leader of the Mr. Speaker, we thank the minister for supplying us with a copy ·of the statement beforehand. We wish to join with the minister in expressing good wishes to the retiring Chief Randell. Those of us who are not yet ready to retire hope that he enjoys· his retirement.

Mr. : Speaker, we congratulate Deputy Chief Coady on being moved to the position of Chief~ We hope that he will have L625 March 17, 1987 Vol XL the same support from the police membership that I believe Chief Randell has had. It seems that it has been a period of some stability in terms of the force, at least from public, outward appearances and we hope that this continues, because there have been problems from time to time. We are delighted, Mr. Speaker, to join in congratulating Chief Coady, and we wish him every assistance that we can provide in the way in which he carries out his job. MR. FENWICK: Mr.

Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the member for Menihek. MR. FENWICK: Mr. Speaker, we also wish the retiring police chief a happy retirement and hopefully a fulfilling one.

We also bring our best wishes to Deputy Chief Coady as he assumes the position as chief and hope that these upward promotions will leave additional spots to fill within the ranks of the constabulary and from our perspective, since we are interested in seeing more women involved with the uniformed services, we hope that perhaps some of the fine young constables and other ranks who have been brought into the constabulary in the last five or six years, the women, will be considered for some of these promotions so that we will have better role models in the future for increasing the participation.

Also, we hope that new Chief Coady will have a very open attitude towards the recruitment of women and we are going to insist, as we have in the past, that there be a considerably larger number of women hired as time goes on. No. 12 R625

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. MR. BLANCHARD: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Labour. MR. BLANCHARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to announce the establishment of a Workers' Compensation Appeal Tribunal which becomes effective today. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. BLANCHARD: Members of the House of Assembly may recall an amendment to the Workers' Compensation Act passed last year which provides for a restructuring of the Workers' Compensation Commission. As we know, Mr. Speaker, that has taken place, the restructuring and a new board has been put in place.

A principal feature of the restructuring is the establishment of an appeals mechanism completely . independent of the Commission. The Appeal Tribunal has jurisdiction to deal with all appeals from workers or employers with respect to actions or decisions of the Commission on matters respecting: An injured worker's or dependent's entitlement to compensation benefits; an injured worker's entitlement to rehabilitation services and benefits; a provision of medical care; an employer's assessments; assignment of an employer to a particular class or group; an employer' s· merit or demerit rating. -Mr.

Speaker, the establishment of L626 March 17, 1987 Vol XL the Appeal Tribunal represents an important action on the part of this government to provide workers and employers with an appeals system which will operate in a fair and independent manner. The members who comprise ·the Appeal Tribunal are: Mr. David Buffett as Chairperson; Ms Lisa Byrne-Clarke is the Vice-Chairperson; Mr. Gonzo Gillingham and Ms Judy Greenland are Workers' Representatives on the Tribunal; and Ms Caroline Barker and Mr. Gerard McDonald are the Employer Representatives. Mr.

Speaker, before I resume my seat I would like to make a correction of a typographical error in the title. It is the 'ESTABLISHMENT' not the 'ENTITLEMENT OF AN APPEAL TRIBUNAL FOR WORKERS' COMPENSATION. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Fogo . MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, we did not notice the typographical error on this side, thanks to the minister, because I do not see a copy of it over here lying around. The decency of the minister in giving us a copy on such an important matter, surely must be underscored. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR.

BLANCHARD: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. No. 12 R626

MR. SPEAKER: A point of order, the bon. the Minister of Labour. MR. BLANCHARD: Kr. Speaker, a copy of this Ministerial Statement was sent to the Opposition this morning at about eleven-thirty. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, I would ask the minister to stand and clarify in this House to whom, if indeed there was a copy sent to the Opposition Office? A cute little trick. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. TULK: Perhaps, Mr. Speaker, it illustrates the same type of incompetence he has shown in putting the Appeal Tribunal in place. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. BLANCHARD: Mr.

Speaker, maybe the hon. the House Leader on the Opposite side (Mr. Tulk) was too busy in his meetings this morning, and too preoccupied, but my secretary did send the required number of copies. MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order. The hon. the member for Fogo. MR.

TULK: I say to the bon. gentleman that his attempt to communicate -to the Opposition was done in the same manner as he has been communicating to the people of L627 Karch 17, 1987 Vol XL Newfoundland in regard to the Appeal Tribunal, when the patronage deals that have been put in place by his own government caused workers in this Province problems that should have been solved last Spring, when the legislation should have been proclaimed in the Summer. In the meantime, Kr.

Speaker, let me say to the han. gentleman that we welcome finally that workers in this Province will have an opportunity to be heard by an independent - PREMIER PECKFORD: The papers want to know who is the leader. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. TULK: Can somebody keep the Premier down? MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. TULK: by an independent tribunal rather than by the Workers' Compensation Board, the same people who ruled on them in the beginning.

It is long overdue and we would like for the minister to stand at some point and tell us how much it cost the people of Newfoundland and Labrador to get rid of the patronage appointments of the Premier and the former Premier. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. FENWICK: Mr. Speaker. MR . SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Kenihek. SOME HON. MEMBERS: No. 12 R627

Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! We cannot have any satisfactory oral questions unless we have some silence from bon. members on my left. The bon. the member for Menihek. MR. FENWICK: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. MR. TOBIN: He has a copy, look! MR. PATTERSON: He has Leo's copy. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. FENWICK: Actually, Mr. Speaker, we just got a copy about a minute ago from the Pages. We did not get one this morning either, to be accurate about it. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. BLANCHARD: I apologize, Mr. Speaker . has been a mix-up in this. SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Hear, hear! KR. BLANCHARD: There At eleven-thirty this morning, Mr. Speaker, a sufficient number of copies for everybody in the House, plus about twenty-five or thirty extra copies for the _ ·media, were sent from my office up here. -Now, where it got mislaid between all the members over there, I do not L628 Karch 17, 1987 Vol XL know. MR. BARRY: To that point of order, Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Mr. To that point of order, the han. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. BARRY: I can only say that when they bring television cameras into the House, I hope they are in colour. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

SPEAKER: Order, please! There is no point of order. The bon. the member for Menihek. MR. FENWICK: Mr. Speaker, just a few comments. We, too, have been waiting eagerly for the appointment of this board. We have seen in the past a number of what we consider injustices that have been perpetrated by the tight-knit appeal system that yesterday was in place with the Workers' Compensation Commission. We are pleased to see the independent tribunal. We feel that this will at least give claimants a feeling of justice having been done.

Hopefully, the claims that are being rejected on a frequent basis will be more sympathetically heard. Thank you very much, Kr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: I would like to welcome to the galleries the Deputy Mayor of Pasadena, Leila Janes. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! No. 12 R628

Oral Questions MR. BARRY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. TOBIN: Get up, 'Roger'! SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker, would you name that fat fellow? MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. BARRY: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the Premier is aware that the Premiers of British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan and Ontario were invited some weeks ago to form an action group by the federal Deputy Prime Minister (Mr. Mazankowski) , to discuss how to sell more Western Canadian coal to Ontario Hydro?

I wonder if the Premier would inform this House whether any similar action group has been offered by the Government of Canada with respect to proceeding to the development of Labrador hydro? MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I do not think that we have as many provinces who are involved in the Labrador power situation. I do not know if any other province besides Newfoundland has claimed jurisdiction · over Labrador.

Therefore, I am not sure if it is L629 March 17, 1987 Vol XL apples and apples, because, as I understand it, the Deputy Prime Minister, as a representative of the West, is dealing with the Western provinces, all of whom have coal and who want to ship some of it East to Ontario. So I am not sure if it is an apples and apples situation where Nova Scotia and New Brunswick would have some Labrador power that they own, in the same way as Manitoba or Saskatchewan have some coal with Alberta and B.C. So I am not su~e if the same parallels exist as the Leader of the Opposition is trying to construe.

So I do not think it is exactly the same thing. As I understand it, the provinces in the West are trying to sell coal to Ontario Hydro. We are continuing to pursue, with both the Quebec government and the federal government, ways of breaking the impasse with Labrador power and we will continue to do so. MR. BARRY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the Opposition. MR. BARRY: No, Mr. Speaker, and apples. It Canadians. Leader of the it is not apples is Canadians and I ask the Premier is he aware that Ontario is discussing with Quebec the possibility of purchasing hydro-electricity from that Province?

Is it not in the interest of this Province, Mr. Speaker, to sit down with Ontario, with Quebec and with the Gove~ent of Canada to find a way in which this Province can see any surplus that would result from the development of Labrador hydro No. 12 R629

available for sale in other parts of Canada, wherever the Province would get the best price, if that in fact could be economically viable? Is the Premier aware of Ontario's interest in purchasing hydro electricity and what has he done about it? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, we cannot do anything about Ontario purchasing electricity.

We have been to the National Energy Board - I do not know how many times -as it relates to exports from Quebec either to a Canadian province or to a state in the United States, on many occasions, both through the National Energy Board or through the courts, to try and get our legitimate concerns realized, and they have not been.

We are continuing to have discussions with the Government of Quebec and with the Government of Canada over the issue of Labrador power, over the present inequitable situation that exists under the Upper Churchill power contract, that was signed and entered into at a time when the Leader of the Opposition's party was in power in this Province, was the government of this Province.

We have been using all avenues that we can to try to correct that inequitable situation and, additionally, .to see further developments of hydro power, as it relates to the Lower Churchill River and the five other rivers that have been identified, as soon as we can. We will continue to do that and continue to try and make changes and see developments occur as quickly as we can; MR. BARRY: Mr. Speaker. L630 March 17, 1987 Vol XL MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the han. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. BARRY: Mr.

Speaker, I wonder if the Premier would tell us whether it is correct that the Prime Minister of Canada offered help to the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, offered to become involved in breaking the impasse which exists with respect to hydro-electricity between Newfoundland and Labrador and Quebec, and has that Prime Minister been t"equired by the Premier to live up to that commitment, or is it yet again an example of lack of credibility on the part of the Prime Minister and lack of action on the part of the Premier? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Premier.

PREMIER PECKFORD: The Leader of the Opposition should chose his words carefully. The word 'credibility' is not one that should be on the tip of his tongue these days. Mr. Speaker, we have taken the Prime Minister up ·on his undertaking and we have, as I already indicated in the answer to the previous two questions, been working with the federal government through the Prime Minister's Office, through the Energy, Mines and Resources ministry, and with the Premier of Quebec (Mr.

Bourassa) and other members of the Quebec cabinet and other people in the Quebec government to try to resolve the problems that we face as it relates to Labrador power. So, the answer to the question is, yes, we hav.e taken the Prime Minister up on that and talks are ongoing between both governments, both governments being the No. 12 R630

Government of Quebec and the Government of Canada. MR. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Windsor - Buchans. MR. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of the Environment (Mr. Butt) and it is with regard to his answering questions in the House a couple of days ago with regard to the toxic waste sites at Come By Chance. In answering the question the minster said, »so, besides the $5,000 that was already spent we are going to have to spend probably five or six times as much,'' so that indicates he is going to spend another $25,000 or $30,000. My question is why, Mr. Minister?

What exactly was in the first, now secret, $5000 study of those toxic waste sites that requires or forces the minister to do another $30,000 study? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of the Environment. MR. BUTT: Mr. Speaker, I pointed out to the bon. member in previous answers that we did a preliminary study for Cabinet's consideration and it was even our intent a that time to do a more comprehensive study. I estimate that the cost of that study will be somewhere in the order of $30, 000. We have gone out now for proposals to do just that. MR. FLIGHT: A supplementary, Mr~ Speaker. KR.

SPEAKER: A supplementary, the bon. the L631 March 17, 1987 Vol XL member for Windsor-Buchans. MR. FLIGHT: Also in the minister's answer, Mr. Speaker, were these short lines, "taking soil samples and so on, that would be required to ascertain•• - it can be ascertained - "exactly what constituents of the soil are there, what it is made up of, what . . . has drained into it," or what has drained out of it? Now my question, Mr. Speaker, to the minister .is what exactly is there in those toxic waste sites that something can drain out of or something can drain into? MR.

SPEAKER: The bon. the Minister of the Environment. MR. BUTT: Mr. Speaker, that statement by the bon. the member is not really a question. I mean, the fact of the matter is that that is what we will ascertain from the study. ·That is why we are going to spend about $30,000 to do a more comprehensive study to find out if indeed there are any problems with the two sites at Come By Chance, and that study will clearly show that. That is why it is being done, obviously. MR. FLIGHT: A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the member for Windsor-Buchans. MR.

FLIGHT: The minister said that something has drained into or something has drained out of. But, anyway, Mr. Speaker~ my final supplementary is in view of the now public call to stop the cover-up and to release that .report, will the minister No. 12 R631

consider - he has now got a public call as well as calls in this House of Assembly to stop the cover-up, stop the secrecy releasing that report so as to ease everybody' s mind with regard to the situation with both toxic waste sites? MR. SPEAJ<ER: The bon. Environment. the Minister of the MR. BUTT: Mr. Speaker, I do not know what the hon. member for Windsor-Buchans would do if it were not for the reporter at The Sunday Express who keeps asking these questions. Let me say to the hon. gentleman, again, that the preliminary study was done for Cabinet consideration.

I say to the hon. member, along with his colleagues, from what they have been doing these past few days -I doubt that he will ever be in a position document. to ever view a Cabinet I doubt that they will ever do it. MR. SPEAJ<ER: Order, please! MR. SIMMONS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAJ<ER: The bon. the member for Fortune-Hermitage. MR. SIMMONS: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Premier . . In rising to pose my question let me, as one who had the privilege of working side by side with him in Green Bay, wish him the best on his anniversary. PREMIER PECKFORD: You are not coming over, are you? HR.

SPEAl<ER: L632 March 17, 1987 Vol XL Order, please! HR. SIMMONS: No, I am not coming over. SOME HON. MEMBERS: No, no! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. SIMMONS: I want to raise a question about the Premier's recent attendance at the First Ministers' meeting on the matter of the free trade issue. I wonder if he would indicate to the House whether he is satisfied that he and his government are having, and will continue to have, an adequate voice in the Canada-US trade talks? MR. SPEAl<ER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Yes, Mr. Speaker, very much so.

I guess I could lament that if we were as well informed a few months ago on the Canada-France fisheries issue and other issues in other areas that are going on in Canada as we have been on the trade issue, I think we would be far more advanced than we are right now. There has been a really good system put in place at the officials' level, at the ministerial level, and then at the First Ministers' level, and the ambassador for trade, Mr. Reisman, and his people have briefed our ministers and the officials and the First Ministers completely and totally. The Premier for Ontario, (Mr.

Petersen) may have some concerns about a more comprehensive free trade agreement, but I do not think he has any concerns about the process in the sense that we are getting .the total information. And this No. 12 R632

past meeting was by far the best of all the meetings in the sense that we are getting all of the information. So I am very happy with the process. On the question of which was hinted at t"atification, in the hon. membet"'s question, some of us take ·different views on that. As Fit"st Ministet"s, I do not believe that it is in the interest of Canada fot" each pt"ovince to have a veto on an intet"national tt"ade agt"eement. I think thet"e has to be some kind of consensus.

My comments at the time wet"e, and still at"e, that aftet" the package is pt"esented to the pt"emiers, if thet"e is a majot"ity of pt"emiet"s opposed to it, and if the fedet"al govet"nment still wants to move on it, it moves at its pet"il towat"ds implementing that agreement. But I think it is by consensus t"athet" than by any veto mechanism that t"atification of the agt"eement will have to come. MR. SIMMONS: Mt". Speaket". MR. SPEAKER: The .bon. the membet" fot" Fortune - Hermitage. MR.

SIMMONS: Does not the Pt"emiet", though, see some inconsistency between his position on thet"e being no need for a veto in this intet"national tt"ade agt"eement and the case he made fot" one insofat" as the Canada Ft"ance tt"ade agreement was concerned, whet"e, by implication at least, he asset"ted that without Newfoundland's agreement to the allocation of the Northern cod there should ~ave been no . allocation to France? · PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker. L633 March 17, 1987 Vol XL MR. SPRAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: We never, ever argued fot" a veto.

We wet"e opted out of the secret meeting that was held in Ft"ance. I think, in light of what has happened since across Canada on the matter, that the federal goveLnment are moving against the wishes of the Province most dit"ectly affected and against the wishes of most Canadians. We would nevet" ask fot" a veto in those talks. But once you present a mountain of facts to the GoveLnment of Canada and they ignore that mountain of facts, we think it diminishes the strength that the federal goveLnment has in this field. Unfot"tunately, it did, but we have never asked for a veto. MR.

SIMMONS: A final supplementary, Mt". Speaker. KR. SPRAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the member for Fortune - Hermitage. MR. SIMMONS: So in the light of the Premiet"' s latest response, is he saying to the House, then, that thet"e at"e cit"cumstances under which he could have agreed to the allocation of Not"thern cod stock to Ft"ance? PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Sp~aker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: No, we would have always opposed that consistently throughout.

We opposed the allocation of any Northern cod stocks in any interim fisheries agreement, opposed it in writing at the officials' level, No. 12 R633

opposed it in writing at my level, opposed it all the way through. MR. SIMMONS: A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker, if I may, very briefly? MR. SPEAKER: That was a but I will member. final supp~ementary, recognize the han. MR. SIMMONS: Yes, just a final and b~ief supplementary. In the light of the latest ~esponse, then, once the Government of Canada knows the Government of Newfoundland's position on the issue, how can the Government of Newfoundland prevent it from happening, despite the vociferousness of his position, short of having a veto on that matter? PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER: The han. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: You cannot. There is no way you can do it. All you can do is present the facts and argue. That is why I will be going to the Senate presenting Committee tomorrow in my facts of the Whole Ottawa, to the of the Senate tomorrow afternoon, to do just that.

The feeling, and I guess this is the way Canada has always worked and this is the argument that I used in the trade negotiations, is if in their wisdom or lack of it -in this case it is lack of it -they persist in moving ahead in the way they had up_ to January 24, well, then I think they move at thei-r peril; because I think over-time it will come back to haunt them and will be reversed by some L634 March 17, 1987 Vol XL future government. MR. FENWICK: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the member for Menihek. MR. FENWICK: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Consumer Affairs (Mr.

Russell) and it has to do with the situation in Corner Brook where an investment counsellor, I believe, in the last number of days has been. charged with a number of counts of misappropriation of funds. My question has to do with the minister's department and its responsibility for supervising investment dealers and investment brokers in the Province.

And I would like to ask him has his department done any investigation of this particular individual, and the situation, in order to see what has happened to what is evidentially hundreds of thousands of dollars that have gone missing ft'om people who have entrusted it to this individual? MR. RUSSELL: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Consumer Affairs-. MR. RUSSELL: Mr. Speaker, I think I would t"ather be a bit cautious about making any comments in the Legislature pertaining to this particular case. It is, as the han. member knows, before the courts.

As I understand it certain· charges have been laid. So perhaps I would be remiss in making any statements here other than to say that my department has No. 12 R634

been contacted and we do do audits and inspections of various persons such as those engaged in this particular kind of business. I am not aware of any specific details pertaining to this particular case. I will, however, get some more details and if there is something that I feel I can relay to this House, or maybe to the bon. member privately, then I will, but I would like to be cautious in saying anything publicly about it. MR. FENWICK: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the member for Menihek, a supplementary. MR.

FENWICK: My supplementary has to do with my understanding that investment dealers like this can actually set themselves up in business with virtually no regular inspection of their books. Is it correct to assume that individuals in this Province can set themselves up as dealers, such as he has, and that these individuals have no regular audit that they have to go through, and no inspection by your department other than on an infrequent or casual basis? MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the Minister of Consumer Affairs. MR. RUSSELL: Mr.

Speaker, there are periodic visits, inspections and audits done on businesses such as this. I would not say they are done as frequently as perhaps they should be because of a lack of staff and the numbers that are · around. They have to apply to the department for a license to do that kind of ~hing. I understand that in this L635 March 17, 1987 Vol XL particular case the bon. gentleman referred to did not renew his license for a considerable period of time prior to this incident taking place.

But we do carry out periodic inspections and audits on all the businesses tha~ we have time for and can possibly deal with within the limits of the manpower that we have. MR. FENWICK: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the bon. member for Menihek. MR. FENWICK: the Mr.

Speaker, if, as the minister has just indicated, this individual's license had lapsed, my question to the minister is: Does that mean, then, that any of the other people licensed under your legislation could actually be continuing to practice as investment brokers or investment dealers of this kind even though their licenses have lapsed as well? In other words, what happens when you license lapses? Why was this person not reined in and said, .. Look, you have not renewed your license. Stop doing it"? MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the Minister of Consumer Affairs. MR. RUSSELL: Mr.

Speaker, situations, I suppose, occur - I kind of feel like I am making excuses - and perhaps with the limited manpower we have to check on every single business of this nature, and others, there are times when a license will lapse and by the time we become aware of it and get a chance to check on it and go out and ask for the renewal, then No. 12 R635

unfortunately certain things have happened in the interim. But we do try to contact people in a reasonable period of time subsequent to their not renewing their licenses to see if they intend to renew them and if they are still continuing in the business they were in. Unfortunately circumstances happen in the interim and we do not catch everything. MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for St. Barbe. MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister of Mines (Mr. Dinn) a question. The minister will be meeting here tomorrow in St.

John's with Tech Corporation which is the parent company which runs Daniel's Harbour zinc mine. I want to ask the minister: In light of the fact that 165 miners and their families will have no income whatsoever in two weeks time, whether he is approaching this meeting with a sense of optimism that this mine will indeed open soon? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Mines and Housing. MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker, of course we are always very optimistic, but I do not know if optimism is all we will need with respect to Daniel's Harbour. We hope that the company will have a proposal that they can put to us tomorrow.

I am meeting with a Mr. Latewich and the manager of the mine. We would hope that a proposal will come forward, but we certainly do not know at this stage whether they L636 March 17, 1987 Vol XL will have a proposal to present to us tomorrow. If they do we will certainly give it quick assessment because we know that April 14 is the cutoff date of U. I. payments to the people in Daniel's Harbour. That i_s one of the reasons we called the meeting at this stage, because we did not seem to be making much progress and we wanted to make sure that we had a yes or a no for the miners out in the hon. member's district. MR.

FUREY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. member for St. Barbe. MR. FUREY: the Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the minister if government is prepared to offer any financial help to the mine at Daniel's Harbour in light of the fact that Baie Verte was given help - PREMIER PECKFORD: It has a lot more reserves, though. MR. FUREY: - the St. Lawrence mine was given help, and Hope brook was given help? I would just like to ask the minister is he approaching this meeting with a mind open to offering government help should it be sought? MR .

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Housing. MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. member, if he looked at the history of what has happened over the past year, would see we have had good looking times with respect to the price of zinc and times when they were not so good. No. 12 R636

The prices have ranged to a peak of something like forty-five cents this year, and that was the time · at which the company made a presentation to government for the possible reopening of the Daniel's Harbour mine. The price went from there down to about thirty cents at one point, and right now it is sitting at thirty-three cents U.S. on the London exchange. It is very difficult to see what the company has in mind at this stage. We would hope that their review of zinc prices and projections of zinc prices are a little more optimistic, I can tell the bon. member, than what we can say .

Our investigations reveal that the prices will waiver somewhere between thirty and forty cents. It is quite a thing for any company to take that on but we would certainly have an open mind with respect to any proposal that the company might make to us tomorrow. We will be wanting some guarantees as to the length of time the mine will be opened. We certainly would not just lash out some money and have the mine not reopen at all, but we will certainly listen with an open mind and I am sure my colleagues in Cabinet will view and receive it in a positive vein. MR. K. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker . MR.

SPEAKER: The bon. the member for Stephenville. MR. K. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct a question to the Minister responsible for Housing (Mr. Dinn). I would like to know could the minister tell us if the Newfoundland and Labrador L637 March 17, 1987 Vol XL Housing Corporation employs its own lawyers or do they tender out for legal help? Also, when they pursue legal action against social housing clients, are they using this legal help from the Housing Corporation? MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the Minister of Mines and Housing. MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker, in the St.

John's region generally what we do with legal work is we have our solicitor with Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation. He handles most of the work in the St. John's area. In other areas or regions of the Province we have names of people we call on short notice when lawyers are required, and the work is apportioned out in that way by the solicitor for the Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation. MR. K. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the member for Stephenville. MR. K. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, is it the policy of the Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation, Mr.

Minister, after attempts to evict social housing clients, to send them the legal bill that was incurred in trying to evict them? MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the Minister of Kines and Housing. MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker, there was a little bit of noise down in this area of the House and I did not quite get the total question the bon. member No. 12 R637

was asking. MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the member for Stephenville. MR. K. AYLWARD: After failing to evict social housing clients from the Housing Corporation, after failing to evict them many times, to get them out, to throw them in the streets, could the . minister tell us is it the policy of the Housing Corporation to send the legal bill to the these same people after they have come up with the money from God knows where? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Mines and Housing. MR. DINN: It is a very rare occasion when somebody gets evicted from a house.

Any person, for example, on social assistance, it is just about impossible in that situation to evict. When some people on low incomes run up a bill of $3,000 or $4, 000, and it takes a period of years for these things to happen, and no attempt is made at times by these clients to pay the 25 per cent of their income which is what the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation and Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation as a federal/provincial policy have to charge, when they do not pay the 25 per cent of income for their units, then, Mr.

Speaker, after a period of time certain actions have to be taken, certain actions we are fo·rced to take because the federal partner will not participate in a programme where clients do not pay their share of the-housing costs. So-in· those situations, unfortunately, eviction has to take place and the courts award charges for actions L638 March 17, 1987 Vol XL taken -either they award them to the client or to the Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation - and when the courts do that, of course, they have to-be collected. MR. GILBERT: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hori. the member for Burg eo - Bay d'Espoir.

MR. GILBERT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Rural Agricultural and Northern Development (Mr. R. Aylward). In view of the difficulties experienced by the Bay d'Espoir salmon growers in the development of their co-op, would the minister agree to having an independent assessment panel appointed to look at their development plan and to make recommendations to these people as to how they might make their plan more feasible thereby not needing the financial input of National Sea or any other large corporation in order to make their plan viable? MR.

SPEAKER: The han. the Agricultural Development. MR. R. AYLWARD: Minister and of Rural, Northern Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I thank the bon. member for the question. One way to make the plan very viable, and one way that we are researching, is to get an infusion of private capital in the Bay d'Espoir area, Mr. Speaker. That is one very certain way to get the salmon hatchery or the development of the salmon fa~s off the ground. No. 12 R638

MR. GILBERT: A supplementary, Mr . Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the bon. the member for Burgeo - Bay d'Espoir. MR. GILBERT: I asked the minister really about the appointment of an independent assessment panel. The other thing, Mr. Speaker, is in recent weeks members of the groups from the Bay d'Espoir Salmon Growers Co-op have been in St. John's looking for financial direction in the process of setting up their business.

Would the minister now agree to appoint a civil servant, familiar with the different types of funding, whether it be federal, provincial or private enterprise, thereby cutting down on the difficulties that these people are experiencing in finding funding and cutting through the bureaucratic red tape? In other words, ask a civil servant to lead those people through the process that they must have, to point out all funding that is available in order to finance this project? MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the Agricultural Development. MR. R. AYLWARD: Minister and of Rural, Northern Mr.

Speaker, the bon. gentleman must be misinformed, because I know at least two people on my staff who have been working over the last week with the salmon development co-op people. They have been working with them, and I am also familiar with three other public servants who are working on the proposal from National Sea and the Co-op at the L639 March 17, 1987 Vol XL present time, Mr. Speaker. MR. GILBERT: A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the the member for Burgeo d'Espoir. MR. GILBERT: bon.

Bay What I would like for the minister to do is appoint one civil servant so that those people know where to go. I know people who have been into St. John's wandering around for weeks. Appoint one civil servant who is able to acquaint those people with where they go for funding. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Agricultural Development. !m. R. AYLWARD: Minister and of Rural, Northern Mr. Speaker, the Bay d' Espoir Development Association and the Co-op in Bay d'Espoir know full well, and are dealing presently with very supportive staff of my department on their proposal.

The hon. member might not realize it, but the Bay d'Espoir Development Association are more familiar with whom to deal on this programme within my department than probably even I am, Mr. Speaker, and certainly more familiar than he is. MR. EFFORD: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: There is· only time for one short question and answer. The hon. the member for Port de Grave. MR. EFFORD: Thank . you, Mr. Speaker. My No. 12 R639

question is for the Minister of Social Services (Mr. Brett), Mr. Speaker. The minister was not in the House the last couple of days, and I would like just to inform him briefly that on a number of occasions I have been requested by the young boy, who is presently at the Health Sciences Complex, and by his family, to visit him in private, and I have been very unsuccessful in being allowed a private visit with the young boy in hospital. I ask would the minister give an undertaking today to arrange for me, as the member of this constituant of mine, to visit the young boy for a few minutes in private? MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Social Services.· MR. BRETT: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member was given authority, if in fact qe needed it, to visit the youth in question. But it is my understanding that the security people with the boy feel that it is not in the best interests that anybody be left alone with the boy. I have no intention of questioning the decision of the security people, anymore than the Minister of Justice would question the action of the police. In my opinion they are doing a very good job. They feel that the boy should not be left alone with anybody, and that is the way it will remain, Mr.

Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The time for Oral Questions has now elapsed. I would like to welcome to the galleries councillor, Robert French from the Town of Conception L640 March 17, 1987 Vol XL Bay South. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, under the Financial Administration Act I have to table all guaranteed loans which I hereby do, and also all temporary loans. This will cover the period from April 18, 1986 to February 26, 1987.

I would also like to table the annual report for the year ending March 31, 1986 of the Newfoundland Liquor Licensing Board. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! Notices of Motion MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The bon. Leader. the Government House MR. OTTENHEIMER: I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to present the following resolution:

WHEREAS the Goose Bay Air Base is being considered for a NATO tactical training center; and

WHEREAS Canada is competing with Turkey for the establishment of a NATO tactical training center; and No. 12 R640

WHEREAS the health environmental and wildlife concerns are being addressed about the Government of Canada and the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador; and

WHEREAS the vast majority of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians support the establishment of the NATO tactical training center in Goose Bay; and

WHEREAS the establishment of a NATO tactical training center will be of great economic benefit to Newfoundland and Labrador;

BE IT RESOLVED that this House of Assembly go on record as unanimously supporting Canada's effort to attract a NATO tactical training center to Goose Bay, Labrador.' I give notice of the motion. I point out that this was the motion which was unanimously endorsed by the House of Assembly last year, by the government, the official Opposition, and the then one person NDP. It was unanimously passed, and, therefore, I am giving notice of it now and asking leave that it be passed without debate or a couple of minutes. I point out that this is the resolution which was unanimously passed last year. SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. BARRY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The hon. Leader of the Opposition, is this - MR. BARRY: Yes, by leave. L641 March 17, 1987 Vol XL MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Yes. MR. BARRY: We would consent, Mr. Speaker, to the immediate adGption of this resolution by leave of all members of the House. It is really only the member for St. John's East Extern (Mr. Parsons) and the member for St. John's East (Mr. Long), who are the only two new members who have not already voted on this resolution and adopted it. We think that it is important, Mr.

Speaker, that we protect the economic well-being of the people of Labrador by encouraging employment wherever possible. It is not a case of increasing militarization. The training is going to be done somewhere in Canada. It is training for defensive and not offensive purposes. The jobs are going to go somewhere and, heaven knows, they are desperately needed in Labrador, so we would expect to have the unanimous approval of all members of the House. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! By leave, the hon. the member for Menihek. MR.

FENWICK: Am I correct, Mr. assuming that you discuss it today? you are asking for? MR. OTTENHEIMER: Speaker, in want leave to Is this what We need to pass it today without debate. No. 12 R641

MR. FUREY: It is the same resolution. MR. FENWICK: Mr. Speaker, we would very much like to debate the resolution. We have a lot to say about it and, I think, other members of the House should say something about it. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. FENWICK: Mr. Speaker, if it is the government wish to put it on the Order Paper and bring it up at its next opportunity - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. FENWICK: -it is entirely alright with us but we intend to debate it. We intend to bring our concerns to the House. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. FENWICK: No leave.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Shame! Shame! MR. SPEAKER: The han. Leader. the Government House MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, what was requested was leave to pass it wi-thout debate, the same resolution that was passed,unanimously in the last session -. L642 March 17, 1987 Vol XL SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. OTTENHEIMER: -with the support of the bon. the member for Menihek (Mr. Fenwick). SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

OTTENHEIMER: Obviously, there has been a new matter, which has intervened before, and that is the resolution of the New Democratic Party of Canada which went on record as, among other things, opposing the establishment of NATO operations - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Shame! Shame! MR. OTTENHEIMER: in Canada, including tactical fighter and weapons training at Goose Bay. The ref ore, we do not have leave to pass it and that is all we can do. MR. SIMMS: They should be ashamed of themselves. MR. TULK: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A point of order, the hon. the member for Fogo. MR. TULK: Mr.

Speaker, am I given to understand that in this House a resolution which was passed unanimously last year by the three parties represented in this House, without debate, but for some reason or other the Leader of the NDP group in this House is now saying that they cannot reaffirm what they already affirmed last year, that we were for the establishment of a NATO base in No. 12 R642

Goose Bay? Or, is the problem that we now have the federal wing of the NDP Party dictating to the provincial wing of the NDP Party? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. TULK: On a point of order, Mr . Speaker. The bon. gentleman has to answer that question. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. TULK: What is it that has - MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. TULK: - changed from last Spring to this Spring? MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! It does not appear to the Chair that that is a point of order. l think the bon. member got up to make a point, that a certain resolution was passed by certain members unanimously last year. MR.

SIMMONS: To a point of order. MR. SPEAKER: To a point of order, the bon. the member for Fortune - Hermitage. MR. SIMMONS: I suggest to the Government House Leader (Mr. Ottenheimer) - this is not normal but I am sure it is quite parliamentary - may I suggest to him that since the motion was passed unanimously so recently, he might not want to put the House through the time consuming ritual of having to vote again, L643 March 17, 1987 Vol XL that instead we could agree among ourselves that we just get an indication from the member for St. John's East Extern (Mr. Parsons) and the member for St. John's East (Mr.

Long) as to where they stand on it and then, consider them to have shown their position on the issue and that would resolve the matter. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The bon. Leader. the Government House MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, I think that is a very helpful, laudatory suggestion. There are only two bon. gentlemen here who were not here last year. They could indicate whether they are in favour of us forwarding the same resolution. Could they both tell us if they are in agreement or not in agreement? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The bon. the member for Menihek. MR.

FENWICK: Mr. Speaker, the request was made by the Government House Leader (Mr. Ottenheimer) to have leave in order to pass that resolution with no debate. I have clearly indicated that we do not give leave. If he wishes to introduce it as a government motion, we would be very glad to make our feelings known on the resolution at a later date, but we have no intention of giving leave. I suggest, Mr. Speaker, we go on to some other business. No. 12 R643

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. PARSONS: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: I have heard members on side. I will hear the hon. each the member for St. John's East Extern (Mr. Parsons) but it does not appear to be a point of order. However, I will hear the hon. member. .MR. PARSONS: It is a new point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A point of order, the hon. the member for st. John's East Extern. MR. PARSONS: As the member for St. John's East Extern, I am in complete agreement with that resolution. MR. SPEAKER: Hear, hear! MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The hon.

Leader. the MR. OTTENHEIMER: Government House Mr. Speaker, I believe we are now at the point of resolving this whole matter. There are only two hon. members in the House now who were not in here when it was passed unanimously. The hon. the member for St. John's East Extern (Mr. Parson) has agreed that he does not mind the resolution going forward again representing a unanimous view of the House. The hon. the member for Menihek (Mr. L644 March 17, 1987 Vol XL Fenwick) was here last year and agreed with it. Obviously, he is going to be consistent. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

OTTENHEIMER: So there is only the member for St. John's Long) left. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! This seems irregular. for - to be The hon. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: hon. East the (Mr. completely the member We do not have unanimous leave to debate this matter today and there will be - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Shame! Shame! SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! and all opportunity called. members will have when this motion Order, please! an is Are there any other notices of motion? MR. OTTENHEIMER: I do not think so. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Ha, ha! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! No. 12 R644

Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given MS VERGE: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice. MS VERGE: Mr. Speaker, the week before last the member for Menihek (Mr. Fenwick) asked me a series of questions about the provincial court work load last year related to applications for leave to review custodial dispositions under the Young Offenders Act of Canada, and the projected work load of the new Youth Disposition Review Board recently appointed.

One of his questions was, "Would the Minister of Justice not admit that there were only eleven cases for review under the Young Offenders Act in St. John • s last year and that this is the entire number of cases heard last year?" Mr. Speaker, I have had an opportunity since to get all the figures from the Department of Social Services, which is responsible for youth corrections and applications under the Young Offenders Act. The data indicates that instead of eleven cases, province-wide last year there were thirty-eight, eleven in St.

John's; one in Placentia; three in Grand Bank; two in Clarenville; . five in Grand Falls; one in Bonne Bay; two in Corner Brook; ten in Stephenville and three in Happy Valley-Goose Bay. Furthermore, the Department of Social Services officials project some 250 applications for review and reviews this year during 1987 wil~ be put to the Youth L645 March 17, 1987 Vol XL Disposition Review Board. Petitions MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Forest Resources and Lands. MR. SIMMS: Mr.

Speaker, I rise to present a petition today signed by 116 high school students from the Grand Falls - Windsor area, in Central Newfoundland. These signatures, I want to say, Mr. Speaker, were collected in only one afternoon, last Thursday, following the presentation of the all-party resolution in the House on Wednesday with respect to the torch relay. In fact, it came in to me on Thursday by CN bus. That is how enthusastic these students were about responding and participating in this movement. Anyway, Mr. to read petition.

Speaker, I would like the prayer of the It says: "WhEREAS the Olympic Torch Relay Route only includes a small geographical portion of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador and, indeed, it eliminates more than three-quarters of our Province; and

WHEREAS this Torch Relay Programme is a major and significant national event; and

WHEREAS Newfoundland and Labrador should supposedly be a part of this . nation-wide event; and

WHEREAS a large number of people and municipalities in Central and No: 12 R645

Western Newfoundland and Northern Labrador are and with anxious other programme; extremely interested to participate along Canadians in this WE HEREBY petition the House of Assembly to use whatever efforts it can to 3ee that the Olympic Torch Relay Conuni t tee include the three-quarters of the Province that has been eliminated from the original schedule." Now, Mr.

Speaker, most of the discussion with respect to this took place last Wednesday, when we debated the all-party resolution briefly, but I just want to once again mention, and refresh members' memories, that the route in the rest of Canada, as far as we can ascertain, includes touching the major centres or the major areas of all the Provinces with one exception and that exception is Newfoundland and Labrador. As everybody knows, it is proposed to run it from Signal Hill down to Argentia and to run it across on a ferry. But there is no ferry. The

schedule will not have a ferry running, I gather, and now they are talking about using a helicopter. So that is one point. The Sports Federation here in Newfoundland have proposed a route that would require two days, one additional day to what they have proposed, and that route would see that torch being shown and carried in Central and Western Newfoundland and in Labrador. In fact, that is in their proposed route. The

schedule is there, and all it would require would be one additional day at the beginning of their eighty day programme, or whatever it is. It does not start until November, so surely there should be lots of time to organize L646 March 17, 1987 Vol XL something in that respect. Now, Mr.

Speaker, I have been doing some more follow-up on this over the last couple of days, since I first got involved in the matter, and I find. that Petro Canada is, in fact, the party that is organizing and sponsoring this Torch Relay programme, and I am suspicious of the fact that there are not many Petro Canada outlets outside the Avalon Peninsula, I am suspicious that they may very well be eliminating the rest of the Province simply for a commerical reason and no other. If that is the case, Mr. Speaker, then I think Petro Canada has a lot to answer for. Mr.

Speaker, we presented an all-party resolution in this House a few days ago which received unanimous support, and now I have this petition. By the way, Mr. Speaker, I have another petition to present tomorrow, and I just had a note sent in to me from my office saying that I had a call from the Buchans area -the member for Windsor -Buchans (Mr. Flight) will be delighted to hear this - and there is an individual out there who petition to Relay go Newfoundland of it. is circulating a request that the Torch- through Central as well as the rest So, Hr.

Speaker, the long and the short of this is that it is, in my opinion, another example of typical Upper Canadian thinking when it comes to involving the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, and we have seen example after example over the years. I mean, how many times have we seen maps that have had the Province of Newfoundland left off them? How many times have we heard advertising, Mr. Speaker, that No. 12 R646

says, 'We are a coast to coast company, from Halifax to Vancouver, British Columbia', again leaving out Newfoundland? We have this issue here, and more recently we had the issue raised by the Premier today in a Ministerial Statement with respect to the Newfoundland Curling Team. All of those things, Mr. Speaker. With respect to that curling issue, if I was involved with the St. John's Curling Club or some other group, I would be kicking up the biggest fuss I ever could with respect to the Newfoundland teams elimination from that Olympic trial.

It is, as I said, typical of Upper Canadian thinking when it comes to Newfoundland, just simply ignore us, we are too small. I do not think we should give up this fight, Mr. Speaker. I think we should urge people to write letters to Jim Hunter, Chairman of the Olympic Committee, to the federal minister, to the Prime Minister, to whomever they wish. MR. HISCOCK: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, I only have thirty seconds left, surely the bon. member would like me to finish. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! A point of order, the bon. the member for Eagle River. MR.

HISCOCK: The minister says he wants everybody to fight this issue. I would like to let the House and the minister know that I have already writ ten to the appropriate officials with regard to Labrador. Also, because it is an L647 March 17, 1987 Vol XL important issue, I think we should all be involved in it. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! There is no point of order. MR. SIMMS: I am well aware of that, Mr. Speaker. The bon. the member for Naskaupi (Mr. Kelland) spoke in this House last week and indicated that other members were getting involved. I mean, I do not care who writes.

I am urging everybody to write and use whatever methods they can to try to get them to change this particular issue. It is a simple request, to add one addi tiona! day. I think we have to keep up the pressure, because as it stands now this is a slap in the face to Newfoundland and Labrador. And do not anybody belittle it, because it is a fact, it is a slap in the face. I think all of us as members have the responsibility to do whatever we can to pursue the matter over the next few days. Mr.

Speaker, I hope bon. members of this House will join with me in this fight and aggressively use whatever methods they can, including getting petitions from their own regions, to get this stupid mistake changed. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the member for Windsor - Buchans. MR. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker, I take a great amount of satisfaction out of supporting No. 12 R647

the petition so ably presented by the member for Grand Falls (Mr. Simms). Mr. Speaker, the reason I rise is because the member for Labrador is chomping at the bit, of course, to speak in this debate on behalf of his constituents, because I would suspect that he has done as much up until now as the minister has done in bringing attention to his desire to have the relay in Labrador. I noticed the minister, Mr. Speaker, indicated that the petition was from the Windsor Grand Falls area. I have not seen the petition. He also indicated that he is expecting one from Buchans.

I am sure the minister will do the honourable thing when he receives that petition, if he receives it, and send it to me, as the member representing the people of Buchans, to present, or I am sure he has indicated to the people he is talking to that the honourable and proper thing to do is to send the petition from Buchans to their sitting member. MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. MR. SPEAKER: A point of Minister of Lands. order, the han. the Forest Resources and MR. SIMMS: Just to inform the han. member, I did not talk to anybody.

I just had a call saying that there is somebody circulating a petition around Buchans to send to me to present with respect to the Torch Relay Programme. That is all I say to the han. member. MR. FLIGHT: All I am saying, Mr. Speaker, is if the minister is not playing politics with this issue, I am L648 March 17, 1987 Vol XL sure he will do the honourable thing and indicate to the people concerned that they should send the petition to the member representing the constituency that is sending it. MR. SIMMS: Go get your own petitions. MR. FLIGHT: I may get one or two in Grand Falls, Mr. Speaker. MR.

SIMMS: Well, why do you not? MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker, let me say that the minister should stop now because he is going to be seen as playing politics with this issue, and that is something we do not want to have happen. MR. SIMMS: You are the only one bringing it up. MR. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker, when one realizes that the Torch Relay is going to spend fifty-odd days in Ontario, two days in Newfoundland, one has got to consider the amount of thought that was put into this. I agree with the minister, one has got to recognize the Upper Canada way of thinking. Fifty days, Mr.

Speaker, in Ontario, digressing off the Trans-Canada Rural Routes, yet two days in Newfoundland, from St. John's to Argentia. Only a very minute part of the Avalon Peninsula will get a chance to participate in or witness that very significant, historical event that we are going to see, the Torch Relay opening the Winter Olympics. No. 12 R648

So, Mr. Speaker, if the minister, or this House of Assembly, or if our efforts can convince the organizers of this Torch Relay to use on the Island even the Trans-Canada route, Mr. Speaker - one could argue it would be nice if they were to digress to the Burin Peninsula and the Northern Peninsula - even that much would allow the rest of Newfoundland to have access to either participating in or witnessing it, Mr. Speaker. There is no question of logistics. The Torch Relay starts in Newfoundland, so nobody from Halifax on West need even know it is happening. All that has to happen, Mr.

Speaker, is the Torch Relay start two or three days earlier in Newfoundland. It causes no problems. It causes no complications. It is very simple. We would be in trouble, Mr. Speaker, if the Relay was starting somewhere else and we were in the middle. Then the other provinces and other towns could say, 'Well, you are going to throw our schedules out of kilter.' But, Mr. Speaker, since the Relay is starting in Newfoundland, there should be no problem. Mr.

Speaker, I would have to give this some thought before I would recommend this action, but I have had people suggest to me that if Petro Canada or if the co-ordinators of the Olympic Relay are not prepared to consider our request and are not prepared to give Newfoundland what Newfoundland considers its right in this matter without infringing on anyone else's rights, we should consider pulling out of the Torch Relay. MR. MATTHEWS: Just pull out? L649 March 17, 1987 Vol XL MR. FLIGHT: Yes, not participate. MR. MATTHEWS: Yeah, but I mean - MR.

FLIGHT: The minister says, 'Yeah.' I just simply threw out to the minister just how strong feelings are in this Province. Mr. Speaker, I would need to think about that before I would support that particular action. However, feelings are running strong enough that people are prepared to recommend that kind of action. Now, Mr. Speaker, I am sure the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth is going to speak in support of this petition. MR. MATTHEWS: No, I am not. MR.

FLIGHT: One would have to ask him - this government always seems to be some kind of a crisis control situation - did we not have people this past year talking to the organizers of this Relay? Did we not in Newfoundland, the Newfoundland Government and Minister, know that the Olympics were taking place in Calgary and that would be a flame run? Did they not have any input into the routes? Did they not consider asking how long the Relay would be in Newfoundland? No, Mr. Speaker, they did not consider that. They wait until we have a crisis on our hands and then they react, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR.

SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. FLIGHT: No. 12 R649

Mr. Speaker, we support the minister and this petition. I would add, Mr. Speaker, that I would want to go on record as saying, as will the member for Naskaupi (Mr. Kelland), that the Relay should go-to Labrador in a meaningful way, that is satisfactory to the people who speak for Labrador. We support the petition. MR. MATTHEWS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth. MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like, of course, as Minister responsible for Sports in the Province, to join with .my colleague who so ably presented that petition, and, as well, with the member for Windsor -Buchans (Mr. Flight) in suppoting the petition. The situation is, there have been numerous letters of support written from all sides of the House on this situation. I must say, with regard to Labrador, that the first objection to the Torch Relay, the actual run and where it was going to take place in the Province, was raised by the residents of Labrador because they were not included.

Of course, a number of individuals in Labrador, the members and myself, have all writ ten to the organizers of the run to voice our concern and disappointment that Labrador was not included. Of course, from that voice of objection then came the broader objection, that there was not enough of the· Island portion included in the run. I would just like to go on record L650 March 17, 1987 Vol XL once again, Mr. Speaker, as totally supporting the petition.

Hopefully the organizers will see the light, come to their senses and not just be involved in this for totally commercial purposes of sponsorship, of running in an area whereby they do have retail outlets, but they will expand it right across the Province, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. KELLAND: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave of the House to briefly make a comment on the present petition. MR. SPEAKER: Does the bon. member have leave?- SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted. The hon. the member for Naskaupi. MR. KELLAND: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you, members.

Very briefly, to reiterate and offer additional support wherever we can to the petitions, and supporters of the petitions, the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth is quite right, the request for additional appearances of the Torch Relay did start in Labrador because of the fact that they were left out of the provincial scene. But it also became very, very apparent to the people in Labrador and, of course, the Newfoundland portion of the Province, as well, that, as I said in the House in support of the petition last week, it was purely minimum tokenism to have the torch go from St. John's to.Argeritia.

So I would like to No. 12 R650

reiterate our very, very strong support and make the comment that it is pleasing to me and pleasing to other members on this side when we do reach a common ground in this House for the common good of all of our people. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased today to present a petition, signed by 103 residents of Labrador.

The prayer of the petition is as follows: "We, the undersigned, wish to petition the Newfoundland and Labrador House of Assembly to intercede on behalf of concerned citizens regarding the flagrant breaking of the law by a number of Innu of the community of Sheshatshit. We refer specifically to the illegal taking of caribou by the Innu from the protected Mealy Mountains caribou herd. We are concerned that not only is the law of the land being broken intentionally, but we are also concerned that a herd of caribou, which had been protected from extinction for many years, is now in dan·ger of being wiped out.

We hereby call upon the government to find a resolution to this untenable situation and to act upon the matter expeditiously." I might add, Mr. Speaker, that earlier the han. member for St. John~s East (Mr. Long) had the opportunity to get up and say a few words concerning Native people and · at that time he never had the intestinal fortitude - last week L651 March 17, 1987 Vol XL when I was speaking he was shooting across the House at me concerning the Innu people in Labrador. Mr.

Speaker, I believe that the hon. gentleman now has a chance to get up and show his true colours to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. Is the hon. gentleman going to be party to laws being broken in this Province, Mr. Speaker? Mr. Speaker, the han. gentleman knows that those Innu people are breaking the law. The laws in this Province today apply to everybody, whether it be the member for Fogo (Mr. Tulk), or the member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren), or the member for St. John's East (Mr. Long). The same laws apply to everybody and, Mr.

Speaker, if we, the elected members of this House, support anybody who takes illegal action in this Province, then we should not sit in this House. The member should not be allowed to sit in this House if he is going to support anything illegal, and that is what the hon. member is doing. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WARREN: If there are illegal actions being taken, I hope the Justice Department of our Province will take the necessary steps. I said that in Goose Bay on Thursday evening to the Committee that was set up.

I do not know if the han. gentleman was in Labrador or not - he probably has not been past the overpass yet - but I would suggest to the han. gentleman that he should realize that the caribou in the Mealy Mountains are not only there for the Innu people, they are there for constituen~s of mine in Rigolet, they are there for the constituents of the member for No. 12 R651

Eagle River (Mr. Hiscock), and they are there for the constituents of the member for Naskaupi (Mr. Kelland). Those caribou were protected for the last nine or ten years for all people in Labrador, not a distinct number of people. Mr. Speaker, they have been breaking the law. It is very, very interesting to note that I was asked by one of the CBC reporters in Goose Bay on Thursday night, 'One Indian leader has said that the First Ministers' Conference on aboriginal rights is coming up at the end of the month, would this have anything to do with it?

Would this have anything to do with the First Ministers' meeting on aboriginal rights on March 26 and 27? Mr. Speaker, I should advise the hon" gentleman that I just came back from Hopedale and Postville where it was suggested to me, what is the Newfoundland and Labrador Government and the Federal Government doing spending so much money in Sheshatshi t if they are going to break our laws? I just want to, Mr. Speaker, in the last minute I have if the House will allow me - MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The hon. member's time is elapsed. MR. WARREN: Could I have about one minute? SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave! By leave!

MR. SPEAKER: By leave. MR. WARREN: In 1983 -1984, Sheshatshit; $960,000 went to in 1984-1985, L652 March 17, 1987 Vol XL $1,021,000; in 1985 -1986, $717,000, and this present year, up to today, $1,119,000 of taxpayers' money has gone into the community of Shes has hit, where we have a bunch of Indians breaking the laws of our Province. Mr. Speaker, they do not recognize the Government of Newfoundland nor the Government of Canada, therefore, Mr. Speaker, it is up to the Department of Justice and the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth (Mr.

Matthews) to take action against anybody in this Province who intentionally breaks the law. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. KELLAND: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Naskaupi. MR. KELLAND: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am pleased to rise and speak to this petition and to speak in support of the intent of the petition.

Just to clarify matters or to make it plain to those members who are not aware, having come back to raise a question with the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth on Friday, on Tuesday I made a press release which was issued, generally speaking, in the region of Labrador which said I do not support illegal hunting of caribou by either Innu or non-Innu hunters, it really. makes no difference, and that the law must be applied equally to all -and I had one qualifier -with one exception, that up to such time as the native peoples of Labrador, the Innu and other· native groups, have been able to secure a land No. 12 R652

claims settlement agreement, or an aboriginal rights agreement, which would give them a certain jurisdiction hopefully, and, of course, both jurisdictions or several jurisdictions would each honour and respect the others jurisdiction. That was my statement and it was quite clear and plain.

Since that, I have been back in the district and I have talked to a number of members of the Mealy Mountains Caribou Conservation Committee, and I have talked to Innu leaders, as well, and I have made that position extremely clear to them, that I do not support illegal hunting of caribou by anybody and that the law must be equally applied until some other jurisdiction by agreement changes that, and that is quite plain.

But in the whole thing, and I commend the minister and I thank the minister for being in the district this morning to meet with the Cornmi t tee, we have to keep in mind that this is a very trying time in Labrador, and perhaps the whole Province. It is a time for cool heads to be involved, but at the very same time it is a time for concise action, so that if a wildlife law is being broken, then the law has to be enforced. Now, I do not think the member for St. John's East (Mr.

Long) is naive enough to think that we are naive enough to believe that we are purely talking about hunting for the sake of having meat to feed s·ome hungry people. I do not think he believes that, and I do not think he would expect us to believe that, because that is not the case. There is a larger, much more complex political statement being made by that. L653 March 17, 1987 Vol XL Now, if the member for St. John's East does not understand that, then he totally misunderstands everything that is happening in Labrador.

And it is totally interrelated to questions of NATO, questions of low level flying, questions about the economic future not only of Naskaupi district but all of Labrador, indeed all of our Province, in that the boom of a NATO base would supply perhaps, on an estimate, anywhere from 500 to 1,500 civilian jobs, properly protected and properly lobbied for by all of us. If he does not understand that, then he does not understand very much about our districts. And I call on the member for St. John's East to follow a fine example MR. WARREN: And Menihek. MR.

KELLAND: Well, Menihek, supposedly, we would have to say, has already supported NATO, unless he now wants to weasel out of this, which it sounds like he is trying to do. I would like to know what comments, if any, the Provincial Leader of the NDP may have made on this particular resolution up in the Province of Quebec? I would like to know what the member for St. John's is going to say when he rises, obviously in support of this petition so ably presented by the member for Torngat Mountains. So we are in a much more complex situation, Mr. Speaker and members, than hunting for meat. It is much, much more complex.

If the member for St. John's East has never set foot in Labrador, he should keep his bloody nose out, too. MR. HISCOCK: No. 12 R653

Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the member for Eagle River. MR. HISCOCK: Mr. Speaker, I ask for leave to speak to this petition. MR. SPEAKER: Does the bon. member have leave? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Yes. MR. SPEAKER: By leave. the bon. the member for Eagle River. MR. HISCOCK: Mr. Speaker, this petition which was brought in by the member for Torngat Mountains and spoken to by ·the member for Naskaupi has to do with an important issue, one that goes right to the backbone of my district. In 1978, the caribo~ herd was down to 178 animals.

I have been the member for that area going on eight years, and ·each year pressure has being brought to bear by communities in the district that wanted to have the Caribou herd opened up. took the attitude, officials from the I always get the wildlife division to get the statistics and the reports done. Last year a survey was going to be done, and the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth did away with the idea. Now, a new one is being done. After all the years, Mr.

Speaker, of residents of Cartwright, Black Tickle and Southern Labrador seeing the head gradually build up, now we have over forty-odd of the eighty-nine Caribou killed. The law, Mr. Speaker, is the law of the land. While we agree that L654 March 17, 1987 Vol XL this government is dragging its feet, as well as the federal government, on settling land claims. the law has to be respected until changes come about. Mr. Speaker, before this issue was raised I wrote the Minister of C".Jlture, Recreation and Youth concerning Naskaupi Indians in Romaine, St.

Augustine, and the North Shore of Quebec coming down into Southern Labrador and killing Caribou over the years, so much so that the herd has not been able to build up there. We do not have proper surveillance there, and this is what happens. Wildlife officials should have seen this coming. In actual fact, Mr. Speaker, with the number of Innu who went out to the hunting grounds, I do not think we had sufficient people to go out and deal with the situation in the way it should have been dealt with. I was amazed! And the reason why I wanted to speak to it is that the member for St.

John's East made a statement the other day, when he was talking about North West River, and he said that this government and the Province seem to be more concerned with protecting caribou than with protecting the Innu. I take offence to that, Mr. Speaker. As pointed out by the member for Torngat Mountains, a lot of money has been spent in that community. The people in Southern Labrador are extremely upset that this herd has been taken from them. They trapped alongside the Innu over the years with no problems.

Now we see a herd that was gradually building up being slaughtered, and that is the main concern of the people of Southern Labrador. The law is the law and it has to be abided by by all, otherwise, there is going to be anarchy. And if No. 12 R654

there is going to be anarchy, Kr. Speaker, the ones that are going to suffer are the Caribou herds, because people are just going to poach and every other thing. Mr. Speaker, I support the petition, as a responsible elected member of this House of Assembly. We are here to make laws. We do not make them lightly. We do not make them flippantly. As a result, we expect the laws to be carried out. If the laws are unjust, then it is up to the people to go through the appeal process, either in the courts, or through the Ombudsman, or whatever avenues are open to them.

In supporting this petition I want to say again that the people in Cartwright, in the district of Eagle River, are extremely upset, are extremely mad as a result of the action taken by fellow citizens in our Province, namely, the Innu. I would ask the provincial government and the federal government to step up their land claims procedures that need to take place so we do not have this blatant violation of rules. I also have to say, Mr.

Speaker, that when this government are talking about land claims, let us not forget the people that are in Southern Labrador who, over the years, have inter-married with the Innu and the Inuit. The people in Southern Labrador, in the district of Eagle River, also have traditional claims to that land and to those rights, -as well as anybody else in Labrador. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do hope that the member for St. · John's East (Mr. Long) has an opportunity to clarify a issue that was raised by him, which I think was L655 Karch 17, 1987 Vol XL irresponsible, perhaps in the heat of the moment.

I think he should address this issue with regard to what is the Province's stand with regard to law and order and what his party's stand is on law and order. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The han. the Minister of Consumer Affairs and Communications. Was this to speak, by leave, to this petition? MR. MATTHEWS: He has a new petition. speak by leave? MR. SPEAKER: May I Does the bon. Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth have leave? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Yes, yes. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth. MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I just thought, as the Minister responsible for wildlife, that it would be appropriate to speak to the petition so ably put forward by my colleague for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren) and as well, of course, so very ably supported by the member for Naskaupi (Mr. Kelland) and the member for Eagle River (Mr. Hiscock). Having just come back from Labrador a couple of hours ago, I can say that the explanation and the update on the feelings of the people in Labrador are certainly spot-on with what the member for Torngat and the No. 12 R655

member for Naskaupi have said. There was very serious situation in Labrador over the last couple of weeks which now seems to have settled down somewhat. Of course, the member for Naskaupi has said, quite correctly again, that it is a larger i~sue than the Mealey Mountain caribou herd itself. It certainly smacks of land claims, aboriginal rights and a number of other things that are happening or about to happen in the area, with development and the suggested boom. I, as well, would like to say to the han. member for St. John's East (Mr. Long) and the han. member for Menihek (Mr.

Fenwick) that, after coming out of there this morning, people are really not to pleased with the stand that has been taken on the NATO base for Goose Bay and neither are they very pleased with the stand taken on the illegal hunting of the Mealey Mountain caribou herd. To react to a statement made by the han. the member for Eagle River when he said that the member for St. John's East said we are more concerned about the welfare of caribou than we were of the Innu, Mr.

Speaker, the point is that both are very directly related because if that caribou herd is not protected and managed properly, then that would directly effect, very negatively, the welfare in future years of the Innu at Sheshatshi t. So, the two are very much related, Hr. Speaker. I think the han. member should realize if that herd is eliminated, wiped out and not properly managed, then there will not be any caribou there for the Innu, the white hunters, and the L656 March 17, 1987 Vol XL other people of Labrador. That is a point, I think, we all should remember.

As the Minister of wildlife, that is the point I have been trying to make for the last couple of weeks. We want to settle the issue peacefully and in a conciliatory manner but, at the same time, not putting on the back burner the concern that we have for that wildlife resource and what it means to all the peoples of Labrador. I would like to go on record as supporting the petition and to inform all han. members that, as Minister of Wildlife, I fully intend to enforce the laws of the Province. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: By leave? The han. the Minister of Consumer Affairs and Communications.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Is this a new petition? MR. RUSSELL: Yes, Hr. Speaker, it is. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Consumer Affairs and Communications. MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the han. the member for St. John's East (Mr. Long) has changed his mind on this matter? I think it is shameful for the han. gentleman to come into this House and make statements condoning the breaking No. 12 R656

of the law, even though it might be a bad law, he is condoning the breaking of it, so I would like for him to get up and speak to this petition and defend himself or defend why he is making that kind of statement. SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for St. John's East, by leave. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. LONG: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am glad to take this opportunity, for the record, to clarify remarks that I made in a

preamble to a question during Question Period. The written record, I am sure, will demonstrate that, I, in no way, condoned the breaking of the law. I asked a question of the minister on what action was being taken to protect the position of the Innu people with respect to their rights to hunting. That was not to suggest that they have a right to break the laws of the Province. I was raising an issue that has been referred to by the member from Naskaupi (Mr. Kelland) and others.

Behind this specific episode, that is continuing, and it is not clear that it is now on hold, there are more leaders of the Innu people who are in jail. Maybe that might calm the situation down but what we have is a very difficult situation that is going to continue. There issues behind incident. That are numerous this particular is what I have L657 March 17, 1987 Vol XL raised in the House. The context in which this incident has arisen shows the lack of recognition of these people by both the provincial government and the federal government.

These people are not recognized and, beyond that, they are not recognized as having any claim to land or any special rights. I would also say that it is recorded in Hansard in the

preamble to my question that I referred to other jurisdictions in the country in which Native people living on unoccupied Crown Land have special exemptions that flow from a recognition of their special rights to hunting as aboriginal people. That is what I referred to when I earlier spoke and I will continue to raise those points. MR. TULK: A point of order, Mr . Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! A point of order, the bon. the member for Fogo. MR.

TULK: One of the things the bon. gentleman has to recognize in this House is that if a member rises in his place, he has to say whether he supports the petition or not. Is he supporting the petition? MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! There is no point of order. The bon. member is speaking by leave. The bon. the member for St. John's East. MR. LONG: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No. 12 R657

It is not a point of order. I was speaking because I was speaking by leave and I was not speaking to the petition. MR. OTTENHEIMER: Could I have leave to speak to the petition? MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. the Government House Leader have leave to speak on the petition? SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave. MR. OTTENHEIMER: Number one, I would say that I support the petition. I would want to comment on some of the matters put forward by the hon. gentleman from St. John's East (Mr. Long). It is not a question that the Government of Newfoundland does not recognize the Innu people.

The Government of Newfoundland fully recognizes the Innu people, fully recognizes the. NMIA, the Naskaupi Montagnais Indian Association. The Government of Newfoundland fully recognizes that these people have 'aboriginal rights' and that they are among those groups with whom the provincial government and the federal government is going to enter into negotiations with respect to comprehensive land claims. There are two groups in the Province for which that is the case. One is the NMIA or Innu people, and the other is the LIA, the Labrador Inuit Association.

So it is not a question that the Government of Newfoundland or indeed the Government of Canada does not recognize these people and does not recognize that they are aboriginal and does not recognize that they have L658 March 17, 1987 Vol XL aboriginal rights. the other way. It is really It would appear that these people do not recognize the legitimate authority of the Government of Newfoundland. It is the other way. It is not that the government does not recognize them, it is that they say they refuse to recognize the government and that is where the problem is.

The government would be absolutely derelict in its duty if it did not maintain the position that the resources of Labrador, and here we are talking specifically about the Mealy Mountain caribou herd, if that resource were not protected in the best interests of all the people of Labrador because if that herd is decimated, it is of no use to the Innu, it is of no use to the non-Innu, it is of no use to the Inuit, it is of no use to anybody. We are all here in this Province and we all have to participate in an equitable and fair way in the sharing of these resources.

Unless the government takes necessary measures to protect that resource for all of us, including the Innu, then there will be no resource there for any of us, including the Innu. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. RUSSELL: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Consumer Affairs and Communications. MR. RUSSELL: Thank you, Hr. Speaker. I rise signed people·. really, No. 12 to present a petition by approximately 3,509 It is from .two districts the Lewisporte and R658

Twillingate districts. The prayer of the petition, Mr. Speaker, is very brief and kind of self-explanatory. It says, "We, the undersigned, fully support the offering of first year university courses at Lewisporte in September of 1987." Mr. Speaker, there has been an ad hoc committee, if you will, set up in Lewisporte and it has done its homework exceptionally well. It found out that there are approximately 60 potential first year university students from Lewisporte and Twillingate districts.

I think there are some from the han. member from Fogo's district as well who have also indicated that they would attend first year university courses at Lewisporte, if they were offered. Mr. Speaker, those persons in this Legislature and in this Province who have had sons and daughters go to university here in St. John's fully appreciate the cost involved ·in doing that.

It is, in my opinion and certainly the opinion of the residents of Lewisporte and Twillingate districts and, I suspect other districts in the Province as well, it would be much cheaper in this particular case for students to attend classes at Lewisporte where they perhaps can commute back and forth during the year and live at home. Mr.

Speaker, this petition and this prayer has the support of the various religious denominations in Lewisporte and area, the town of Lewisporte, the town of Norris Arm, the Lewisporte Chamber of Commerce, the Lewisporte PTA, the Norris Arm Lions Club, the Twillingate/New World Island/Change Islands Development Association, some 25 or 30 communities in the Lewisporte L659 March 17, 1987 Vol XL district and, as I said, in the district of the bon. member for Twillingate (Mr. W. Carter). The committee has met with my colleague, the Minister of Career Development and Advanced Studies (Mr.

Power), and had some very positive and very interesting discussions with the minister. I think the request certainly falls in line with government's policy for the new community colleges concept. Apart from making it a little more financially feasible for the parents in those areas, of course it would add something to the economy of Central Newfoundland and to Lewisporte as well. So, Mr. Speaker, I would ask that this petition be placed on the table of the House and be presented to the department to which it refers.

I would certainly hope that the minister concerned would give it very serious consideration and that the Lewisporte Community College see the implementation of first year university courses at that facility in September of this year. Thank you, very much. MR. BAKER: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the member for Gander. MR. BAKER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am very happy to support this particular petition. I have spent quite some time recently looking into what is happening with this offering of first year university courses throughout the Province. This was a direction that was No. 12 R659

taken by the Department of Career Development and Advanced Studies with a view to having Memorial University reach out into the Province, first of all, for students who would not otherwise go to university to have an opportunity to start and complete their first year courses. Secondly, to try to capture a greater share of the market of students who are now leaving the Province by making it more convenient for them to do first year university courses here in Newfoundland and at home. And thirdly, Mr.

Speaker, and not last, but perhaps the most important reason from the point of view of the people in the communities, for each student taking the first year university at home this way it would save about $5,000 a year. There are an awful lot of people who are under financial constraint and find it very difficult to sent their students into St. John's to do university courses the facilities out made adequate to courses. when there offer perhaps can be these I would point out to the minister, being a member of Cabinet, that there are an awful lot of peripheral concerns here.

Number one is the amount of money allocated to bring this programme in. I understand that in this first year there is enough money to implement courses in four centers. Perhaps they should have thought in terms of implementing courses in more than four centers. S.econdly, it is getting rather late in the year, I would say to members opposite, to announce decisions of this kind. Maybe the whole process is rushed so much L660 March 17, 1987 Vol XL that it will not be efficiently brought in. I am very concerned about that.

I am concerned that the courses be brought in as quickly as possible, but not in such a way that it would endanger the future development of the courses down the road. I think that perhaps the Department of Career Development has not done its homework on this one, Mr. Speaker. I do not think they know the tremendous demands out there in the Province for these first year university courses.

They are going to be swamped, they are going to be inundated with students that want to take these first year university courses in all centers of the Province where it is possible, where the caliber of teacher exists and so on, to do the courses. They are going to be literally swamped. They are thinking in terms of in each center having maybe thirty or forty students. Well I can tell the department, Mr. Speaker, that in Lewisporte they will have much more than that. In Grand Falls they will probably have a demand for maybe 150 to 200 students from that area who want to do first year university courses.

Also in Gander I can document, Mr. Speaker, that there will be a demand of around 200 students that want these first year university courses. So I support this petition. I think that the demand is in the Lewisporte area for several classes of first year university courses . I urge the Minister of Career Development (Mr. Power) to make sure that this programme is brought in properly, is brought in with due regard to facilities and to qualified staff, and is brought No. 12 R660

in with a view to allowing all students in this Province to do their first year university courses at home if they so desire. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Forest Resources and Lands. MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, I would like to have a few words to say in support of the petition presented by my colleague, the Minister of Consumer Affairs and the member for Lewisporte district (Mr. Russell), who also has some responsibilities, as a government member and a government minister, to the district of Twillingate.

It was the residents from Twillingate and the Lewisporte districts that signed this petition, some 3, 500, I think my colleague said. That, Mr. Speaker, is a very, very significant number of people seeking the first year courses to be presented at the vocational school. I listened what my friend Baker) had to I· think what we Mr . Speaker, interest to Gander (Mr. about it. with from say all have to realize and remember is that the government has already announced its position and what it plans to do with restructuring of vocational schools in this Province, and the development of community colleges. Mr.

Speaker, in that announcement, I recall, because I participated in it, as a matter of fact, there was a clear indication of the plans. There · was also a clear indication that L661 March 17, 1987 Vol XL this was not going to happen overnight, that this would have to be developed over a three year period or something along those lines. Obviously, not every school was going to get the programme that it wanted immediately in the coming September. Mr. Speaker, I know of where I speak, because in Grand Falls we have had a university credit programme ongoing in Grand Falls district for the last several years.

It was put together by a group of concerned and interested citizens several years back. It has · worked very well. It has worked reasonably well. In fact, I suspect, because we have had the programme in place for five or six years, it may even give us a bit of an edge in getting the programmes into the Grand Falls vocational school quicker than perhaps we might have, because they have experience with it. They have had ins true tors who have, albeit, been school teachers, and that is not the way the programme is going to work in the community colleges, but still, we have had some experience.

I think there have been at times thirty or forty students that have been able to pick up five credits or whatever and save the expense of having to come all the way into st. John's. I mean, who would want to come all the way into St. John's anyway for university? But if they have to, then they have to. But hopefully, Mr. Speaker, that will change. I suspect and hope that the member for Lewisporte will be successful in his efforts. His efforts were shown in his remarks in support of this petition today. I hope he is successful, and I have no doubt that he will be. No. 12 R661

The member for Gander may even be successful in his at tempts to get first year university courses in his school. Now, whether it is this year, 1987, or September of 1988, I do not know. The fact of the matter is, it will come about, because government has already announced that is the plan, it is just a question of when it will develop. So, Mr. Speaker, I wholeheartedly and enthusiastically support the petition presented so ably by my colleague, the member for Lewisporte (Mr . Russell) and Minister of Consumer Affairs. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! Orders of the Day MR. OTTENHEIMER: Motion 1. DR. COLLINS: Mr.

Speaker, I have message from His Lieutenant-Governor. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! received a Honour the All rise. This message is 1987, the bon. Finance: dated March 17, the Minister of "I, the Lieutenant-Governor of the Province of Newfoundland, transmit estimates of sums required for the Public Service of the Province for the year ending 31st. day of March, 1988, by way of Interim Supply and in accordance with the provision of the Constitution Act 186 7 , I recommend these estimates to the House of Assembly. L662 March 17, 1987 Vol XL (sgd) ... ........ ....... . Lieutenant-Governor." SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Hear, hear! DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker. MR . SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Finance . DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I move that the message together with a bill be referred to a Committee of Supply. On motion, that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole on Supply, Mr. Speaker left the Chair. Committee of the Whole on Supply MR. CHAIRMAN (Greening): Order, please! MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr.

Chairman, just briefly, han. members will recall that the procedure here is governed by specific Standing Orders: The minister introducing has fifteen minutes and everybody has ten minutes, and people can speak more than once or as often as they want. It is usually the practice, too, that a person does not adjourn the debate because people can go back and forth. Also , hon. members will recall that the hours which are consummed come out of the seventy-five hours with respect to the Budget. This is all in the Standing Orders.

I just point that out because, we have two new bon. gel).tlemen here, one of whom was in favour of the resolution and one of whom was not No. 12 R662

in favour of the resolution, but they are two new bon. gentlemen all the same. If there would be agreement, perhaps we could at 5: 55 come out of Commit tee and then unanimously pass this resolution, which I think everybody has seen. AN HON. MEMBER: Oh sure! MR. OTTENHEIMER: No, no, this is the resolution with respect to the curling club. MR. SIMMS: The curling team. MR. OTTENHEIMER: The curling team, everybody has agreed. MR. CHAIRMAN: on which The bon. the Minister of Finance. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! DR. COLLINS: Mr. Chairman, I want to thank my colleagues for that thunderous applause.

I will speak briefly, but very much to the point. I am sure that I will persuade bon. members to pass this resolution with very little delay. Mr. Chairman, han. members of the Committee know that Interim Supply is a necessary procedure, unless we were to bring in and pass a budget within a very short period of time in anticipation of the end of the end of the fiscal year. But that has never happened to my knowledge, and I think it is almost impossible by the procedures we pursue. So this makes it necessary to bring in Interim Supply.

Interim Supply is usually for a period of three L663 March 17, 1987 Vol XL months, which would bring us up to the end of June, and this is what this particular Supply Bill, if accepted by the Commit tee and subsequently passed by the House, will do. The amount of the Supply Bill this year for the three month period is $753,486 ,100, which is a sizeable amount. It represents, in actual fact, somewhat over a quarter of what is a usual type of budget; our usual budget would be about four times that or there about. Mr.

Chairman, it is slightly mot'e than last year, but t'eally the percentage is not that much different. Mr. Chairman, Intet'im Supply really allows government to carry on its usual activities until the main supply bill comes down. You can include new capital and new current account expenditures, as long as the Committee is informed of these particular things. In this Interim Supply Bill we have included some new items, so I would just like to infot'm the Commit tee of these now.

We have some new capital account items which total just over $56 million, and these t'ept'esent what we would expect the cash flow to be during the 1987/88 fiscal year for these particular items. Improvement and construction of t"oads would be just over $16 million, $16,280,000.

Roads and bridge rehabilitation somewhat over $8 million; bridges and causeways approximately $4 million; highways - these are Transpot't Canada and therefore are cost shared - $12.5 million approximately; forest resource roads - these are undet' DREE agreements - just over $2 million; Coastal Labrador water and sewer projects - this is under the No. 12 R663

Native People's agreement -$2.5 million or slightly more than that; airstrips -this is 100 per cent federally funded -$900,000; NLDC business equity activities, $2 million, NLDC youth entrepreneurship $500,000; hangar number 21 at Gander -Where is our friend from Gander? He would be interested in that.

Hangar 21 at Gander, that has to be altered to accommodate the new water bomber, $500,000; and then the Offshore Development fund which, as han. members know, is cost-shared with the federal government 75/25: There is $1 million there for the Centre for Offshore and Remote Medicine and Telemedicine; $4 million for a Petroleum Technology Training Programme; $600 million for the Cow Head Access Road; and $1 million for block fundi