role="main" class="main-container container js-quickedit-main-content" id="main-content">

October 31, 2005

38th Parliament, 2nd Session

< Previous sitting day

Next sitting day >

Hansard Transcripts

vol. A

Hansard Transcripts

vol. B

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2005-Oct-31 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Monday 31 October 2005 Lundi 31 octobre 2005

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

SMITHS FALLS DISTRICT

COLLEGIATE INSTITUTE

TORNADOES IN CENTRE WELLINGTON

AND MAPLETON

MNJIKANING FIRST NATION

EARLY CHILDHOOD

EDUCATION CENTRE

EID-UL-FITR

LUPUS DISEASE

JEFFREY BALDWIN

UNILEVER CANADA

CONSERVATION

CENOTAPH IN LUNENBURG

VISITORS

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

HEALTH INSURANCE

AMENDMENT ACT

(INSULIN PUMPS FOR DIABETICS), 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR L'ASSURANCE-SANTÉ

(POMPES À INSULINE

POUR DIABÉTIQUES)

DUFFINS ROUGE AGRICULTURAL

PRESERVE ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 SUR LA RÉSERVE

AGRICOLE DE DUFFINS-ROUGE

MOTIONS

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

HOUSE SITTINGS

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

DUFFINS-ROUGE

AGRICULTURAL PRESERVE

ELECTRICITY SUPPLY

DUFFINS-ROUGE

AGRICULTURAL PRESERVE

ELECTRICITY SUPPLY

DUFFINS-ROUGE

AGRICULTURAL PRESERVE

ELECTRICITY SUPPLY

ORAL QUESTIONS

ECONOMIC POLICY

ADOPTION DISCLOSURE

WATER QUALITY

VIOLENT CRIME

SCHOOL NUTRITION PROGRAMS

WATER QUALITY

LANDFILL

DOMESTIC VIOLENCE

PROVINCIAL DEFICIT

CHEDOKE LONG-TERM-CARE FACILITY

GAMBLING

ARCHIVES OF ONTARIO

PENSION PLAN

MANDATORY RETIREMENT

PETITIONS

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

DIABETES TREATMENT

PUBLIC TRANSIT

COMMUNITY CENTRE

MACULAR DEGENERATION

MUNICIPAL RESTRUCTURING

PUBLIC TRANSIT

ADOPTION DISCLOSURE

IMMIGRANTS' SKILLS

ADOPTION DISCLOSURE

ORDERS OF THE DAY

BUDGET MEASURES ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005

SUR LES MESURES BUDGÉTAIRES

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

SMITHS FALLS DISTRICT

COLLEGIATE INSTITUTE

Mr. Norman W. Sterling (Lanark-Carleton): On Friday, October 21, I had the honour of participating in the opening of a new high school in my

riding. The Smiths Falls District Collegiate Institute's opening symbolizes what a community can do when faced with a challenge.

In the spring of 2001, I visited the old high school in Smiths Falls. With the help of guidance counsellor Pat Tobey, I was shown a 50-year-old institution that

had outlived its usefulness. Imagine a school whose front office and foyer had to be supported by steel girders due to the failing ceiling. I was appalled that the young people of Smiths Falls and

area had to come to this place each day to try to learn.

From that point on, the people of Smiths Falls rallied behind a cause that ultimately came to fruition with a brand new school. Rallies were held, petitions were

filed and politicians from all levels were lobbied. Students Ashley Campbell, Bronwyn Cline and Megan James, along their principal, Debra Thomlinson, made a presentation to our Minister of

Education right here at Queen's Park that was mature and reasoned.

The efforts of the students and citizens were unrelenting, and in the end the community was not only successful in getting a new, state-of-the-art school, but

managed to open a program to provide similar funding for 50 to 69 other dilapidated schools across Ontario.

Thanks also go to Mr. Drew Nameth, a former Ministry of Education employee, for his work in creating a solution to this problem.

TORNADOES IN CENTRE WELLINGTON

AND MAPLETON

Mrs. Liz Sandals (Guelph-Wellington): On August 19, tornadoes touched down in Centre Wellington and Mapleton. I know we are all relieved that

there were no serious injuries as a result of these tornadoes, and I want to congratulate all involved on their quick response. In particular, the municipalities of Centre Wellington and Mapleton,

and also the Grand River Conservation Authority along with community volunteers, did an excellent job of responding and providing relief to the affected citizens.

I also want to thank Monte Kwinter, Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services, who visited on August 23; Perth-Middlesex MPP John Wilkinson and

Waterloo-Wellington MPP Ted Arnott, who are both strong advocates for the communities; and also the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing, John Gerretsen, who toured Centre Wellington and

Mapleton on September 1 to view the tornado damage.

In order to assess the damage, both the township of Centre Wellington and the township of Mapleton provided detailed information. As a result of the information

gathered, the government has recognized that there are significant costs for cleanup on public property.

I am pleased to announce that the province is providing a grant to each municipality to cover some of these costs. Our government will provide a grant of

$182,500 for Centre Wellington and $152,600 for Mapleton. Thank you to the province on behalf of the communities. These grants are greatly appreciated.

MNJIKANING FIRST NATION

EARLY CHILDHOOD

EDUCATION CENTRE

Mr. Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): On Friday, October 28, I was honoured to be part of the official opening of a new daycare facility at

Mnjikaning First Nation in my riding. I was joined that day by the Honourable James K. Bartleman, the Lieutenant Governor of the province of Ontario; Chief Sharon Stinson Henry; the Honourable Paul

DeVillers, our MP for Simcoe North; and the Honourable Mary Anne Chambers, Minister of Children and Youth Services.

The community selected the name Binoojiinsag Kinoomaagewgamig, which means "small children's learning place." The daycare will be situated in the Honourable

James K. Bartleman Building, named in honour of the Lieutenant Governor of Ontario, a Mnjikaning First Nation community leader. He has championed education and literacy in First Nations communities

during his term in office. His efforts have now generated annual campaigns that will continue to foster learning in our communities. We are honoured that he has allowed us to dedicate the building

in his name.

The architects of the project were Teeple Architects of Toronto, and they have created a fascinating daycare facility for the young people of Mnjikaning First

Nation. It's a state-of-the-art building.

With the problems we've seen in some of the other First Nations communities across our province and our country, I think the people of Ontario and Canada would

look to the Mnjikaning First Nation as a leader in many areas. I'm very proud to be the MPP for that area and to take

part in this official opening.

EID-UL-FITR

Mr. Shafiq Qaadri (Etobicoke North): Firstly, I would like to salute the spirit of tolerance and even celebration of diversity that this

government and this House continuously demonstrates. In that spirit, it is a privilege for me to rise today and recognize one of the great Islamic celebrations and to extend to the Muslim community

of Ontario, some 500,000 strong, felicitations on the end of the holy month of fasting, the month of Ramadan, and the celebration of Eid which will be taking place this week.

Eid is a time to come together as a community, to renew friendships and family ties, to exchange gifts, to forgive and to give thanks. This is a time for peace

and for all Muslims in the world to devote to prayers and mutual well-being.

The first Eid was celebrated 1,400 years ago by a handful of followers. The same community, ably and strongly and vocally present in Canada, now numbers some one

billion across the world.

Speaker, may I, with your permission, use this opportunity not only to extend greetings to the Muslim community but also to extend, on behalf of the Muslim

community, gratitude and recognition to the whole country for the extraordinary outpouring of generosity, donations and moral support as the community deals with one or other natural disaster

across the world.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for this opportunity. I wish all of my colleagues in this chamber and in the Muslim community of Ontario Eid Mubarak.

LUPUS DISEASE

Mr. Tim Hudak (Erie-Lincoln): As members of the assembly know, October is Lupus Awareness Month throughout much of the world. To recognize this

in Ontario, many municipalities have raised lupus flags to raise awareness of this terrible disease and its effects.

I want to take this time to congratulate Patricia Leece, president of the Lupus Foundation of Ontario, which happens to be in Ridgeway in my riding of

Erie-Lincoln, and all of her team and fundraisers. They have asked me to convey the following information to the Legislature.

Lupus is a chronic autoimmune disease that affects one out of every 185 people; it can affect people of different races, ethnicities and ages, and affects men,

women and children of all ages. The immune system attacks the body's own healthy cells, causing tissue damage, organ failure and, sadly, in some cases even death.

Medical research efforts into lupus and the discovery of a safe, more effective treatment for lupus patients are underfunded in comparison with disease of

comparable magnitude and severity. Many physicians worldwide are unaware of the systems and health effects of lupus, causing people with lupus to suffer for many years before they obtain a correct

diagnosis and medical treatment.

There is an urgent need to increase awareness in communities of the debilitating impact of lupus. I'd like us to join other communities across the province to

proclaim that October is Lupus Awareness Month and to bring awareness to this little-known disease that affects many of our citizens.

JEFFREY BALDWIN

Ms. Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): Today marks the last day of Child Abuse Prevention Month. Yesterday, a little boy named Jeffrey Baldwin

was remembered and honoured in Greenwood Park in my riding, a little boy who died on November 30, 2003, just shy of his sixth birthday. Jeffrey had everything taken from him in his short life, and

the horrific conditions under which he lived are unbearable to contemplate, but contemplate them we must: Jeffrey weighed only 21 pounds, the size of a one-year-old. He was kept locked in a small,

filthy room, and rarely let out. He was starved to death.

A small sugar maple tree was planted in his honour, close to children's swings and a baseball diamond. There was also a rock with a plaque bearing his name and

picture, and an inscription saluting Jeffrey saying, "Whose small voice we did not hear." The memorial to the little boy was conceived of by a woman named Amanda Reed, and to her we are grateful

for organizing this event, along with Councillor Paula Fletcher, so that we could, together, under the bright autumn sun, remember this little boy and grieve for him.

At the end of the speeches, we formed a circle around Jeffrey's tree at the request of Councillor Fletcher, who said, "Let's encircle him in a way he was never

encircled in life." Particularly moving was the attendance of the emergency personnel who first responded to the 911 call that day. There is a murder trial in process now, and after that, we hope

there will be a coroner's inquest.

Yes, today marks the last official day of Child Abuse Prevention Month, but let's make every day Child Abuse Prevention Month. Make yourself think of Jeffrey

Baldwin and his suffering, and let your anger and sorrow grow like a kernel deep inside you so that we can find ways to prevent something like this from happening to another child ever again.

UNILEVER CANADA

Mr. Kuldip Kular (Bramalea-Gore-Malton-Springdale): I'm pleased to rise today to acknowledge the expansion of Unilever Canada's Bramalea plant.

This expansion is the result of a $3-million investment and will create 25 new jobs

This indeed is good news, not only for my riding of Bramalea-Gore-Malton-Springdale, but also for the rest of the city of Brampton. The Bramalea plant currently

employs approximately 325 people and manufactures Lipton and Knorr soups and side dishes. With this expansion, the site will be responsible for all the Lipton and Knorr soups for all of North

America. Not only will this expansion better serve the North American market, but it will also serve the residents of greater Toronto area.

On behalf of the residents of my riding as well as Brampton, I would like to acknowledge Unilever Canada for choosing Bramalea as its Knorr-Lipton North American

headquarters, for putting Bramalea on the map and for contributing not only to the economic well-being of the region of Peel, but to Ontario as a whole.

CONSERVATION

Mr. Mario G. Racco (Thornhill): Last week, our government fully demonstrated its commitment to protecting Ontario's parks, green space, woodlots

and conservation reserves. The proposed legislation will ensure that the ecological integrity of parks and conservation reserves be considered a priority.

As a long-time advocate for green space, I am pleased to see this type of legislation being introduced. The legislation proposes mandatory reporting of the

health of parks and the amalgamation of existing bylaws and legislation that governs parks and conservation reserves at this time.

Furthermore, it proposes to provide guidance and management to both parks and conservation reserves. The legislation also recognizes the unique needs of First

Nations people and creates provisions to protect their needs accordingly.

In my riding of Thornhill, we have a number of woodlots and parks. In my 18 years as councillor, I always tried my best to make sure that the development of

lands did not compromise the natural beauty of Ontario but promoted the use and appreciation of parks and woodlots. The Concord-Thornhill Regional Park, on Racco Parkway, has something for every

member of the family, from its water park, to the picnic benches to sports fields.

The Sugar Bush Heritage Park in Thornhill is attached to a woodlot that is being developed by the city of Vaughan, the region of York and the Toronto Region

Conservation Authority. The German Mills Settlers Park in Markham-Thornhill is 65 acres of natural park area.

Parks like these in my riding of Thornhill and across Ontario have made the quality of life of Ontarians better.

This legislation will ensure accountability --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you.

CENOTAPH IN LUNENBURG

Mr. Jim Brownell (Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh): In my riding of Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh, in the rural community of Lunenburg, there

is a beautiful cenotaph at the Memorial Hill Cemetery. This cenotaph rests on a hill overlooking countryside and farmland. The names of brave men who gave their lives in defence of our European

friends through two great wars are etched in stone.

Three years ago I visited the cenotaph to lay a wreath, only to realize that my wreath was the only one there. The cenotaph, for whatever reason, had faded from

general memory, as have the men whose names it carries. Since then, I have maintained a yearly vigil, returning to that cenotaph every November 11 to ensure that the memory of those soldiers is

never, ever allowed to be forgotten.

On this Remembrance Day, in the Year of the Veteran, I would encourage all members, indeed all Ontarians, to take the time to visit a local cenotaph in their

community. I would also encourage everyone of our generation to look to our youth and instill in them a respect and understanding of all the sacrifices that our veterans have made, both living and

deceased.

I will never allow the Memorial Hill Cemetery cenotaph, nor the memory of the great men it represents, to be neglected again. As a province, as a community, we

must all do our part to ensure that the contributions of our veterans are honoured on this upcoming Remembrance Day.

VISITORS

Mr. Bob Delaney (Mississauga West): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker: I'd like to draw members' attention to the east members' gallery and

introduce two guests making their first visit to the Ontario Legislature. We have two representatives of the executive MBA program from Simon Fraser University in Burnaby, BC. Please welcome Marg

Vandenberg and the dean of the faculty of business administration, Ernie Love.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): That of course was not a point of order, but welcome.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

HEALTH INSURANCE

AMENDMENT ACT

(INSULIN PUMPS FOR DIABETICS), 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR L'ASSURANCE-SANTÉ

(POMPES À INSULINE

POUR DIABÉTIQUES)

Mr. Gravelle moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 15,

An Act to amend the Health Insurance Act / Projet de loi 15, Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'assurance-santé.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

The member may have a brief statement.

Mr. Michael Gravelle (Thunder Bay-Superior North): This legislation would amend the Health Insurance Act by making the provision of insulin

pumps and the supplies for them an insured service under the act. For people with diabetes, the insulin pump makes an enormous difference in their day-to-day quality of life. In fact, the insulin

pump can save the health care system substantial dollars by reducing hospital stays, let alone eliminating more dramatic health care consequences associated with diabetes such as amputations and

loss of vision.

I am particularly grateful to the Thunder Bay branch of the Canadian Diabetes Association for their support of this initiative, and I look forward to second

reading debate on my bill on Thursday, December 1.

DUFFINS ROUGE AGRICULTURAL

PRESERVE ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 SUR LA RÉSERVE

AGRICOLE DE DUFFINS-ROUGE

Mr. Ramsay moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 16,

An Act respecting the Duffins Rouge Agricultural Preserve / Projet de loi 16, Loi concernant la Réserve agricole de Duffins-Rouge.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

The minister may have a brief statement.

Hon. David Ramsay (Minister of Natural Resources, minister responsible for aboriginal affairs): I'll defer to the time allotted for ministerial

statements.

MOTIONS

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

Hon. James J. Bradley (Minister of Tourism, minister responsible for seniors, Government House Leader): I seek unanimous consent to put

forward a motion without notice regarding private members' public business.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Mr. Bradley has asked for unanimous consent to put forward a motion regarding private members' public

business. Agreed? Agreed.

Hon. Mr. Bradley: I move that, notwithstanding standing order 96(d), the following change be made to the ballot list of private members'

public business: Mr. Patten and Mr. Berardinetti exchange places in order of precedence such that Mr. Patten assumes ballot item 57 and Mr. Berardinetti assumes ballot item 13.

The Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

HOUSE SITTINGS

Hon. James J. Bradley (Minister of Tourism, minister responsible for seniors, Government House Leader): I move that, pursuant to standing

order 9(c)(i), the House shall meet from 6:45 p.m. to 9:30 p.m. on Monday, October 31, 2005, for the purpose of considering government business.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?

All in favour will say "aye."

All opposed will say "nay."

In my opinion, the ayes have it.

Call in the members. This will be a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1353 to 1358.

The Speaker: All those in favour will please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Ayes

Bartolucci, Rick

Bentley, Christopher

Berardinetti, Lorenzo

Bradley, James J.

Brownell, Jim

Cansfield, Donna H.

Chambers, Mary Anne V.

Colle, Mike

Cordiano, Joseph

Crozier, Bruce

Delaney, Bob

Dombrowsky, Leona

Duguid, Brad

Flynn, Kevin Daniel

Fonseca, Peter

Gerretsen, John

Gravelle, Michael

Hoy, Pat

Kular, Kuldip

Kwinter, Monte

Levac, Dave

Marsales, Judy

Matthews, Deborah

Mauro, Bill

McMeekin, Ted

McNeely, Phil

Meilleur, Madeleine

Milloy, John

Mitchell, Carol

Orazietti, David

Parsons, Ernie

Peters, Steve

Phillips, Gerry

Pupatello, Sandra

Qaadri, Shafiq

Racco, Mario G.

Ramal, Khalil

Ramsay, David

Rinaldi, Lou

Sandals, Liz

Sergio, Mario

Smith, Monique

Takhar, Harinder S.

Van Bommel, Maria

Watson, Jim

Wilkinson, John

Wong, Tony C.

Wynne, Kathleen O.

Zimmer, David

The Speaker: All those opposed will please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Nays

Baird, John R.

Barrett, Toby

Bisson, Gilles

Churley, Marilyn

Dunlop, Garfield

Hardeman, Ernie

Horwath, Andrea

Hudak, Tim

Klees, Frank

Kormos, Peter

Marchese, Rosario

Martel, Shelley

Miller, Norm

Munro, Julia

O'Toole, John

Ouellette, Jerry J.

Prue, Michael

Runciman, Robert W.

Sterling, Norman W.

Tory, John

The Clerk of the Assembly (Mr. Claude L. DesRosiers): The ayes are 49; the nays are 20.

The Speaker: I declare the motion carried.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

DUFFINS-ROUGE

AGRICULTURAL PRESERVE

Hon. David Ramsay (Minister of Natural Resources, minister responsible for aboriginal affairs): I'm very pleased to rise in the House to

affirm that this government is acting on its plan to conserve Ontario's prime agricultural land and to ensure our communities are strong and healthy for generations to come. To help us accomplish

that goal I've introduced both new legislation and amendments to the Conservation Land Act that, if passed, would ensure that the Duffins-Rouge Agricultural Preserve is set aside permanently for

agricultural use.

If passed, the legislation would reinforce the conditions of an agreement signed in 1999 by the province, the region of Durham and the city of Pickering. The

three parties to that agreement all agreed that the agricultural lands in the Duffins-Rouge Agricultural Preserve would be held in perpetuity. To me, "in perpetuity" means forever.

The 1999 agreement was clear. Under it, the city of Pickering was entrusted with holding the easements of the lands. Once the province, Pickering and Durham

signed the agreement, the lands were sold by the province to the original landowners or tenant farmers. The sale price was based on the land continuing to be used for agriculture. Yet on March 1,

2005, the city of Pickering unilaterally, without consulting the province, removed the agricultural easements on two thirds of the properties sold by the province in the Duffins-Rouge Agricultural

Preserve. In other words, Pickering broke the agreement it signed six years ago and violated the trust that was placed in the city to protect those lands. The city of Pickering's actions have

created the impression that the lands may be available for development and have put their protection at risk.

Many of the properties sold by the province to the local farmers have since been sold to land developers. Conserving prime agricultural land is vital if we

want to ensure that Ontario's farmers can continue to grow the foods that we eat.

In fact, the last two provincial governments both recognized the importance of the Duffins-Rouge Agricultural Preserve. Through a series of letters from

Minister Phillips, Minister Caplan and myself, we have repeatedly asked the city of Pickering to reinstate the easements and respect this agreement, yet the city of Pickering's only response to

these letters to date is a letter stating that it cannot reinstate the easements. This response does nothing to ensure the long-term protection of these important agricultural lands that the city

agreed to. Instead, it strongly suggests that the city of Pickering would rather see them developed. It also makes clear that Pickering has no intention of honouring the agreement it signed in

There are no second chances when it comes to protecting agricultural land and green space. Once it's developed, there's no going back, and that's why we must

act now. The legislation that I've introduced, if passed, would ensure that all existing conservation easements on the Duffins-Rouge Agricultural Preserve are held in perpetuity. It would also

reinstate easements previously held and released by the city of Pickering.

The proposed amendments to the Conservation Land Act, if passed, would provide greater certainty about using conservation easements to provide long-term

protection for natural features and agricultural land on private property.

This government has taken a number of steps to strengthen the protection of farmlands and natural areas in the Golden Horseshoe. It has passed the Greenbelt

Act; it has strengthened the provincial policy statement by setting clear ground rules for how Ontario communities will grow and prosper; it has developed the greater Golden Horseshoe growth plan

and the proposed central Pickering development plan; and earlier this year, I announced both Ontario's biodiversity strategy and our natural spaces program.

The legislation I introduced today is another important step toward ensuring healthy growth in southern Ontario and leaving our children a legacy of protected

agricultural lands and green space.

ELECTRICITY SUPPLY

Hon. Donna H. Cansfield (Minister of Energy): I rise today to advise the members of an important milestone in our discussions with the

province of Manitoba to help supply Ontario with clean hydroelectric power.

The government of Ontario has signed an agreement with Manitoba to negotiate the purchase of 400 megawatts of clean, renewable power. The clean energy transfer

will begin in 2006 with 150 megawatts, increasing to 400 megawatts as transmission upgrades come on-line to increase capacity between Winnipeg and Thunder Bay. The upgrades are expected to be

completed by 2009, representing a doubling of east-west grid capacity at the critical Manitoba-Ontario connection point. Total energy supply will amount to 2.5 terawatt hours annually, or enough

electricity to power 250,000 homes.

A second phase allows for a longer-term arrangement to help develop hydroelectric sites starting early next decade in northern Manitoba, including Conawapa.

These projects could deliver from 1,500 megawatts to as much as 3,000 megawatts of electricity over a new transmission line.

This project will benefit both provinces by making a major contribution to helping Ontario replace coal-fired power with a cleaner source of energy. It will

reduce greenhouse gas emissions and create employment and economic opportunities in Ontario and in Manitoba, particularly in northern and First Nations communities.

As we move forward, an important stage will be the identification of a preferred route to transfer electricity from Manitoba to southern Ontario, and the

eventual launching of regulatory approvals. As a critical part of the process, the government of Ontario will seek greater involvement of First Nations, leading to a formal consultation process.

The government will also explore possible roles for the federal government.

As we continue to move forward on the clean energy transfer initiative with Manitoba, it is important to recognize how this agreement fits with our overall

energy plan for the province. Our energy plan consists of three key components: building new generation capacity; maximizing our existing generation and transmission assets; and creating a culture

of conservation. In all of these areas, our government is taking decisive action.

In just two years, our government has brought on-line more than 2,200 megawatts of power, and we are going further. This government has set the wheels in

motion on projects that will provide us with nearly 9,000 megawatts of power over the next five years, and over a quarter of this power will be from renewable resources. At 9,000 megawatts, this

would be enough to power over four million homes. In fact, between 2004 and 2007, no other jurisdiction on this continent will secure more new generation capacity than Ontario, thanks to the

decisive leadership of this government.

Our agreement with Manitoba is another effective way of increasing the supply available to our province. While we are building upon our existing relationship

with Manitoba, we are also continuing our discussions on the other side of the country with the government of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Hydroelectric power is clean power, and these clean power resources in Manitoba and Newfoundland, along with our own resources, will strengthen our national

energy supply and security.

Our plan is bold, and our vision for our province is clear: an Ontario where industry has a reliable source of clean, affordable energy; an Ontario that leads

in renewable and sustainable energy supply; an Ontario that remains prosperous and is the envy of the world.

I will continue to carry out this plan, and I look forward to working with all Ontarians to make it happen.

DUFFINS-ROUGE

AGRICULTURAL PRESERVE

Mr. Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): It's my pleasure to respond to the statement from the Minister of Natural Resources. The Minister of

Natural Resources keeps coming into the Legislature and introducing bills of which we have no notice. I have been attending House leaders' meetings, and one of the questions we -- the third party

and the opposition -- have asked is that we could have an outline of what legislation the government is planning to introduce in this session of the Legislature. I can only assume that the minister

is making up these bills weekly on the back of a napkin, because they keep on introducing bills of which we are receiving no notice.

This bill is not new news. Former municipal affairs ministers Chris Hodgson and David Young were involved with this and have always been clear that they wanted

to maintain this land as agricultural. The former Minister of Finance, Janet Ecker, ran in the last election being very clear that she wanted to preserve this land. You have to contrast that with

the current member for Pickering-Ajax-Uxbridge.

Mr. Tim Hudak (Erie-Lincoln): What did he say?

Mr. Miller: He said one thing to get elected, and now the government's doing something very, very different. I would like to quote from some

of the newspapers that point that out.

The Toronto Star, Tuesday, October 7, 2003: "Environmentalists are concerned that Pickering mayor Wayne Arthurs ... will try to influence his Liberal

colleagues at Queen's Park to change their own policy and provincial rules on the protection of farmland and open space in the Duffins-Rouge Agricultural Preserve and the neighbouring planned

community of Seaton."

"The Tories' stand on the preserve has been clear, to the extent that former municipal affairs minister David Young took all planning for the area out of the

hands of the city of Pickering when officials threatened to develop the preserve."

Ms. Janet Ecker "wants it left untouched, but developers and Pickering mayor Wayne Arthurs, the Liberal candidate, argue the use of the land should be open to

negotiation."

Sunday, May 18: "David Young, Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing, was not available for comment, but in the Ontario Legislature May 6, he said that in

the 1999 agreement it was `made clear that this land would remain agricultural forevermore.'"

Sunday, September 7: "Ecker Stands Her Ground; MPP Says She Will Continue To Defend Agricultural Preserve."

The Tory position is clear.

ELECTRICITY SUPPLY

Mr. John Yakabuski (Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke): The announcement by the energy minister today is no real announcement at all. We already have

the capacity to import power from Manitoba and have had that in place for some time. The rest of it is down the road: this optimistic dreaming that this government keeps planning, that they're

going to have all these kinds of things in place -- prior to what? Prior to shutting down over 20% of our capacity in this province between 2007 and 2009. But there's no assurance they're going to

have new placements up and operating.

These new transmission lines and these kinds of approvals are going to involve an awful lot of jurisdictions. They're going to involve First Nations lands and

all kinds of environmental approvals that must be sought and received. And there's no guarantee that this government will have those things in place at that time.

But they are under a great deal of pressure, because they made these kinds of commitments with regard to shutting down from 20% to 25% of our capacity without

having any kind of plan in place on how they were going to make up for the shortfall. They made the promise, and now they're dancing around, trying to figure out how they are going to get there.

They're making all these kinds of announcements. They're running roughshod over all kinds of people. All these announcements in Mississauga with power plants -- there are three: one in Oakville,

two in Mississauga. We're down to one now because they're having all kinds of problems as they come out with plan A, B -- we're up to about plan L, and they're still evolving every day.

The question is: When are they going to actually tell the people of Ontario what power they actually have coming on-line, guaranteed, working in the mix, not,

"We hope, we're planning, we're optimistic and this is what we're looking forward to"? The people of Ontario need to know that they're going to have juice in the lines and that when they turn on

that switch, the lights are going to go on. Right now, all we get is announcement after announcement, but the lights really aren't going on over there. The lights aren't going on over there. We

need some real ideas and we need some real plans, not hope. This is Ontario. This is not a field of dreams.

DUFFINS-ROUGE

AGRICULTURAL PRESERVE

Ms. Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): Well, well, well, what have we here today? I think we have an admission by the Liberal government,

finally, that the greenbelt is not permanent, and it's not able to protect lands like the Duffins-Rouge Agricultural Preserve.

I've got the record here. I asked a question back on May 31, 2005, and this is what Gerry Phillips, from management board, said: "The member will know that we

have our greenbelt legislation; we have the minister's order on the agricultural preserve, which we believe will protect the agricultural preserve. So we're quite confident that we have the tools

in place to ensure that that important property stays as an agricultural preserve."

The member ends by saying, "So I hope the member can rest relatively comfortably." Well, I want the government to know I haven't been resting relatively

comfortably, because I knew at the time and said at the time that this is a floating greenbelt. Indeed, developers know that as well. I'm looking forward to seeing the legislation, but I do want to

say to the government: We've got the big pipe, we've got Simcoe south, we've got a floating greenbelt. Preserves like this are not --

Interjections.

Ms. Churley: It's the truth. You've got to admit that this admits it today. So I'm calling on the government to amend that greenbelt to make

it fixed, not the floating greenbelt that it is, so you don't have to bring in stand-alone pieces of legislation like this to protect valuable farmland.

ELECTRICITY SUPPLY

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): I have to respond to the Minister of Energy, who brings in yet another McGuinty spin exercise today

that has virtually no substance to it. This is what it amounts to: The government announced today that it has a deal for a transmission line from Manitoba to southern Ontario. Did it announce that

it has a deal to bring the 1,500 megawatts from Conawapa to southern Ontario? No, Speaker. That's still something that might happen, perhaps, maybe will happen -- who knows? -- in the future. What

we did get is simply this: The existing 200-megawatt transmission line which connects northwestern Ontario with Manitoba is going to be upgraded to a 400-megawatt transmission line. But guess what?

You can't move that electricity past Thunder Bay. It does nothing for electricity-short southern Ontario. Yet, the McGuinty government continues to try to spin this as something that's going to

solve an electricity shortage problem in southern Ontario.

It also repeats something else that isn't happening. The McGuinty government continues to say, "Oh, there's 9,000 megawatts of new supply," but then you go

through the list. They talk about Pickering A, unit 1. Well, that happened under the Conservatives. That's not 9,000 megawatts of new supply. Then they refer to cogeneration from the Toronto

airport authority. That didn't happen under this government. That too was under the Conservatives. Then they talk about new natural gas from Calpine. Hello over there; have you checked? Calpine is

about that far from bankruptcy in the United States. Does this sound like another Enron? The list goes on. They talk about 500 megawatts of new natural gas in downtown Toronto. That's nowhere to be

found -- nowhere to be found. Then they talk about the refurbishment of Bruce A, units 1 and 2 -- 1,500 megawatts. But if you read the agreement, if and when Bruce A, 1 and 2 come on line, Bruce A,

3 and 4 go down. What we hear is the McGuinty government continuing to try to spin a line, continuing to try to tell people that there's new supply, when this is clearly the emperor with no

clothes. As soon as you look under the curtain, it's not very pretty. This is indeed the emperor with no clothes.

The other point that I want to make is this: People in northwestern Ontario do not have an electricity shortage; people in northwestern Ontario actually have

an electricity surplus. The issue across northwestern Ontario, where the McGuinty government is busy shutting down pulp mills and paper mills because of skyrocketing electricity prices, is

affordability of electricity. Is this deal going to do anything for affordability? No. Paper mills that are 10 kilometres away from a hydro dam where you can produce electricity for $10 a megawatt

are going to continue to pay $80 a megawatt because of the McGuinty government's insane electricity policy.

ORAL QUESTIONS

ECONOMIC POLICY

Mr. John Tory (Leader of the Opposition): My first question is for the Acting Premier. Tomorrow is the massively publicized date on which

Justice Gomery will deliver his report on the federal sponsorship scandal, something that is already dominating the news. Can you assure us that it was just a coincidence that your update on the

Ontario economy was scheduled for the same day, virtually guaranteeing that nobody will hear about it?

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky (Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs): I can assure the honourable member that we consider this very good

news for the people of Ontario -- the fact that our government has created more jobs than any government for the last decade. Actually, it's sad news for us that there might be some competition in

the media tomorrow, because we think that it's very important for the people of Ontario to know that because of the policies of this government, businesses in the province are able to actually hire

more people and create jobs.

Mr. Tory: I guess that assurance probably fits into the same category as a McGuinty election promise. But, having said that, because of the

policies of your government, as you point out, actually 42,000 families in Ontario now have one less paycheque to go on because 42,000 families in Ontario have been affected by the loss of

manufacturing jobs over the course of this year alone. On Saturday, it was reported that Hemosol, a once promising biotechnology company and manufacturer of blood-related proteins -- exactly the

kinds of jobs we have to have in Ontario -- announced that it was laying off two thirds of its employees; 50 more families to add to the 42,000 manufacturing jobs lost in Ontario in the past

year.

Much as you might hope that no one will notice, can you guarantee in the economic statement being brought forward by your government tomorrow that there will

be specific measures and provisions to address those 42,000 families and the situation they're in?

Hon. Mrs. Dombrowsky: What I feel very safe in committing to the people of Ontario is that they will be most encouraged that this government

has reduced the debt of the province and has reduced the deficit --

Interjection: That's the Tory debt; the Tory deficit.

Hon. Mrs. Dombrowsky: That's the Tory debt. We're also reducing the deficit, a deficit that was left by the previous government. The people of

Ontario will also be very encouraged to know that during the term of this government, Ontario companies and manufacturers have in fact established 193,000 new jobs for the economy of Ontario. We

believe that's very good news.

Mr. Tory: They of course will be most interested in seeing the details of the reduction in the provincial debt that the Acting Premier has

just announced.

Now, Acting Premier -- this one, we might be able to get closer to an answer on -- aside from manufacturing, another area that's close to home for you, a

critical area where people are struggling in this province is on the farm. Last week, the Ontario Federation of Agriculture said that the men and women who put food on our tables are swimming in

debt and are facing financial ruin. Last Thursday, they called for $100 million to help cover what they called a disastrous 2004-05 crop year. The farmers say they need immediate assistance to

cover this year's debts and to have the money necessary to fund next year's crops. The grain and oilseed safety net committee was quoted in the press as saying, "The farm income crisis in Ontario

has put farm families and their neighbours in jeopardy."

My question is this: Even if the economic statement will be happening under the cover of Gomery darkness, will you guarantee us that specific, detailed help

for the farmers of Ontario will be in that statement tomorrow afternoon? Will you give us that guarantee?

Hon. Mrs. Dombrowsky: I'd like to remind the honourable member that we have, number one, increased the budget at the Ministry of Agriculture,

Food and Rural Affairs. If you want to talk about what this government is doing to alleviate and to support farmers and to help them deal with their debt issues, just last week this government made

an announcement. In keeping with our commitment to support them with their nutrient management infrastructure, we have always committed to spending $20 million. Last week, I'm very happy to say

that our ministry committed an additional $3.7 million to farmers to support them in their investments in nutrient management infrastructure in the province of Ontario.

ADOPTION DISCLOSURE

Mr. John Tory (Leader of the Opposition): I think you should be setting aside some of that money for nutrient management infrastructure down

here. There's a big need for that.

My question is to the Minister of Community and Social Services. The minister said last week on CBC Radio that her adoption bill, Bill 183, concerned adoption

disclosure and not privacy. Would you not agree with me that there are some serious privacy issues arising out of your legislation, and do you have any intention of addressing them?

Hon. Sandra Pupatello (Minister of Community and Social Services, minister responsible for women's issues): I appreciate this question,

because I know that this Leader of the Opposition will recall our telephone conversations around this so that we could show the Leader of the Opposition exactly what our intent would be in this

bill, through regulation, once it became law.

Let me reiterate those things for him. What we would do in regulation we have now moved, through amendments, into the bill itself: We would structure a board

where individuals who understand that they may come to harm can in fact apply for a disclosure veto. This was very important. It was always our intent that we would have a bill that would have the

right balance, to protect people from coming to harm because of a change in the law and, as well, finally to allow people who have a right to information to access that right but still have people

maintaining their privacy.

Mr. Tory: My supplementary to the minister is this. In June, information and privacy commissioners from across Canada added their voice

unanimously to the debate, demanding a disclosure veto to protect privacy. I want to quote from their press release: "Birth parents and adoptees should not have to demonstrate significant harm in

order to maintain their privacy. For those who do not wish to have their private records disclosed, the disclosure is the harm." They're referring, of course, to your law, which will make people

come forward and beg for their privacy.

Minister, will you agree right now that, if you insist on making people plead for their privacy, which you shouldn't do -- at the least, you can stand here in

this House this afternoon and say that this bill will not be proclaimed until such time as you have made public and for discussion and consultation those draft regulations you've been talking about

for months now. We still haven't seen them and seen what guarantees they contain and what requirements they have. Will you make them public before you proclaim the bill, so we can all discuss them

and consult on them?

Hon. Ms. Pupatello: Once again, the Leader of the Opposition would recall the conversations that he and I have had as to the detail of this

bill, which we were very happy to share because he should know the intent of the government. In fact, if this bill does go to a vote in this House soon, it nevertheless won't receive royal assent

for an additional 18 months, which gives us the opportunity for a significant campaign to make people in Ontario and abroad very aware of the implications of this change. The Leader of the

Opposition is aware of that. That also buys us 18 months -- a significant amount of time. Some of the work has already been done so that we will be ready on the ground for the kinds of changes we

need to make for the protection of people.

We have been very clear: This is a bill that is about balance. It is about the fact that people deserve information, and yet there are people who should be

entitled to privacy. It is a right to information, not a right to a relationship. I believe this bill strikes that balance.

Mr. Tory: If we have the 18 months, I don't understand for the life of me why you can't just say yes, you will publish the draft regulations

and have them subject to discussion and consultation with this Legislature and people outside. I don't understand. You've got time for an ad campaign and all the other things.

I just want to read you a passage from a letter dated October 23, sent to the Premier from a birth mother. She says:

"I was promised in a courtroom 35 years ago, a frightened teenager, surrounded by learned lawyers and a judge, that the adoption records would be sealed. Now

this legislation will allow them to be opened and I will not have a say in the matter. Ms. Pupatello says there is nothing in law to say that the records would be forever sealed. Tell that to the

frightened teenager who believed what she was being told in that courtroom so many years ago. She has rebuilt her life on a cruel fallacy."

Minister, do you have anything to say to these people who placed their trust in our system and now feel that you and your colleagues have completely forgotten

about them and their rights?

Hon. Ms. Pupatello: I would again like to remind the Leader of the Opposition of my invitation months ago to have the Leader of the Opposition

himself participate with his views as to the specifics of the regulation. We have made that available not just to him but as well to everyone who has an interest here. We in fact want to strike the

right balance and intend to do that, both with the bill and with regulations.

Let me say as well that right here in Ontario, the Ontario Association of Children's Aid Societies, which is supporting the bill, knows better than most people

in this House the dire circumstances that people may have been in or are in today. Let me also remind the Leader of the Opposition that finally, with this bill, will come protections that do not

exist today, that in fact today those very women are receiving those phone calls and those knocks on the door with no access to a no-contact and no access to the potential for a disclosure

veto.

WATER QUALITY

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Acting Premier. Last week the Premier said, "It's the McGuinty government's

job to help Ontario communities facing emergencies." Today, as we speak, drinking water is unfit to drink in 51 Ontario First Nations communities. Many of these communities are Kashechewans in

waiting. Can you tell us what action, prior to Monday of last week, the McGuinty government took to ensure safe, clean drinking water for Ontario First Nations communities with boil-water

advisories?

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky (Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs): Our government is committed to implementing the recommendations from

Justice O'Connor. O'Connor has made it very clear that the province of Ontario has a responsibility to offer our resources with respect to water testing and training of water facility operators.

Our province is certainly ready to support the federal government in any plan that they would have or at any time when they would express a need to do that. You would know as well that the Premier

has communicated with the Prime Minister of Canada, and this government certainly stands ready with our resources available when asked.

Mr. Hampton: It seems that once again you want to refer to jurisdictional differences. I can tell you that what First Nations and First

Nations people have experienced is jurisdictional indifference from your government and the federal government.

I want to ask you about the Six Nations of the Grand River near Brantford. People there have been under a boil-water advisory since the late 1990s. Study after

study has shown the water in up to 80% of the 2,700 wells that supply most of the 12,000 residents is contaminated with everything from rats to E. coli. What has the McGuinty government done to

make sure the Six Nations citizens -- citizens of Ontario -- can drink their water?

Hon. Mrs. Dombrowsky: Again, I say to the honourable member that this government stands ready to assist in the support of the federal

government, which has the responsibility for managing water issues on First Nations reserves. It did come to the attention of this government, I believe it was in April 2004, that there were

serious water issues on the Six Nations reserve. At that time the Minister of the Environment wrote to the federal minister to make it very clear that Ontario was prepared to provide the resources

that we had that may assist that level of government; the level of government that has responsibility for managing clean water issues on First Nations properties. We are very prepared to be there

to help them.

Mr. Hampton: So once again the response from the McGuinty government has been to write a letter.

I want to ask you about Kee-Way-Win First Nation, which has been under a do-not-drink-the-water advisory since 2004 because the water is contaminated with

uranium. The Mohawks of the Bay of Quinte have had a boil-water advisory since 2003. The Neskantaga First Nation has been under a boil-water advisory for almost 10 years.

Unsafe drinking water for Ontario First Nations is a public health disgrace. Fifty-one First Nations in Ontario under the McGuinty government have boil-water

advisories, and your indifference and inaction is obvious to everyone.

Tell me this: What is your government prepared to do now to assist these First Nations so they can begin to overcome this obvious, disgraceful situation of

tainted drinking water?

Hon. Mrs. Dombrowsky: Our government is absolutely committed to putting all of the resources that we have responsibility to manage to assist

the federal government in their responsibility to ensure that there is safe, clean drinking water on First Nations reserves.

The statistics that the honourable member brings forward, indeed, are disturbing and that is why our Premier and this government stand prepared -- as Justice

O'Conner made very clear that we have a responsibility to do -- to work with the federal government to provide them with the resources that we have that will assist them in ensuring that people on

First Nations reserves have access to clean, safe drinking water.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): New question.

Mr. Hampton: To the Acting Premier: You mentioned the Walkerton report. Again, it says, "Members of First Nations are also residents of

Ontario. There can be no justification for acquiescing in the application of a lesser public health standard on certain residents of Ontario ... the province, if asked," by First Nations, "has much

to contribute."

Last year, Ontario earmarked $90 million over two years for water quality projects through the Canada-Ontario rural infrastructure fund and the northern

Ontario heritage fund. We know that First Nations asked for your help. Can you tell us how much of that $90 million the McGuinty government moved toward First Nations to improve their water quality

infrastructure?

Hon. Mrs. Dombrowsky: Our government is very proud that we've had the opportunity to work with our federal government and our municipal

partners to invest in rural infrastructure in the province of Ontario. Again, I'd like to remind the honourable member -- and he has quoted O'Conner -- that I believe O'Conner has been very clear

that the responsibility for providing clean, safe drinking water on First Nations properties is the responsibility of the federal government. The Prime Minister of Canada, in more than one

statement, I believe, has made it very clear that this is a federal responsibility.

What I will say to the honourable member is that our government stands ready, when asked by the federal government, to provide the human resources for

training, testing and so on, so that peoples on First Nations can access clean and safe drinking water.

Mr. Hampton: I asked how much of the $90 million that you announced was going to First Nations to help them with issues of water quality. I

know why you didn't answer: because under the McGuinty government, nothing went to First Nations.

Previous Ontario governments have understood that there is a serious problem with the quality of drinking water on First Nations. The NDP government invested

$48 million over four years in water and sewer upgrades on First Nations because, despite the jurisdiction, we saw that there was a problem. Even the Harris Conservative government invested $70

million over eight years to upgrade sewer and water quality on First Nations. What has the McGuinty government invested? Well, a year and a half ago you invested $200,000 in one community. Since

that, nothing.

Can you tell me, Minister, why the McGuinty government continues to speak with all these platitudes, yet you have invested nothing in sewer and water quality

on First Nations?

Hon. Mrs. Dombrowsky: I remind the honourable member that our government is committed to the recommendations contained in the Walkerton

inquiry. Very clearly in that document it identifies where the responsibility for providing clean, safe drinking water is for First Nations people.

Just as we are taking that responsibility in the province of Ontario very seriously for those areas where we have jurisdiction, we assume that the federal

government would have done the same. The Prime Minister of Canada has made it very clear that this is a federal responsibility. Our government has made it very clear that we are prepared to provide

the resources, as O'Connor has recommended, to support the federal government to provide clean, safe drinking water for First Nations peoples in the province of Ontario.

The Speaker: Final supplementary.

Mr. Hampton: Minister, over the last 15 years, previous Ontario governments saw there was a serious problem. They didn't run around blaming

constitutional this or constitutional that; they didn't point the finger at the Prime Minister. They took action. I agree with you: Paul Martin has been missing in action, but Dalton McGuinty has

been missing in action on this file as well.

There is an epidemic of bad water on First Nations. The McGuinty government is contributing zero dollars to try to fix that problem. Tell us, Minister, will

you stop the platitudes, stop telling First Nations you feel their pain, and start making some financial investments to improve the quality of water in their communities?

Hon. Mrs. Dombrowsky: I would like to remind the honourable members that this government acted to protect the First Nations when there was an

emergency. That is what this government did. The Prime Minister of Canada has announced that he has a plan so that First Nations peoples will be guaranteed clean, safe drinking water. Our

government is absolutely committed to working with the federal government to enact that plan, because there's no question that First Nations peoples, whether they are in Ontario or any other

province of Canada, deserve that kind of consideration. Their people deserve clean, fresh drinking water.

The Speaker: New question. The member for Parry Sound-Muskoka

Mr. Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): My question is for the Minister of Natural Resources, and it also has to do with the emergency in

Kashechewan. Minister, when did you become aware of the 1992 emergency preparedness agreement between Ottawa and Ontario?

Hon. David Ramsay (Minister of Natural Resources, minister responsible for aboriginal affairs): I became aware at 12:30 on Tuesday, when

federal minister Andy Scott called me from his office in Ottawa.

Mr. Miller: Well, that makes it very interesting. In Kashechewan there's been a boil-water advisory for two years. There's been your Ontario

clean drinking water report from 2003 that identified a problem.

Didn't your past minister, who is now the Attorney General, who had been responsible for aboriginal affairs for the last year and a half, brief you on your

responsibilities? Minister, now that you are responsible for aboriginal affairs, this falls under your ministry. What steps are you taking to ensure the province is kept apprised of conditions in

other First Nation communities in Ontario, especially now that we know that there are 51 First Nations reserves across the province that have a boil-water advisory?

Hon. Mr. Ramsay: Last week, I asked the Ministry of the Environment if they would do a survey of all the First Nations in Ontario. They have

undertaken that, and they said they will get that report to me tomorrow.

VIOLENT CRIME

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is to the Acting Premier. Day after day, the gun violence continues in the largest city

in Ontario. And day after day, you and your government say that you are consulting, but you refuse to address the fundamental causes of crime.

Ontario's so-called Safe Schools Act is really the gang recruitment act. It takes kids who are most likely to get into trouble and throws them out of school,

throws them on the street with no resources so gangs can recruit them. Students, parents, community activists, educators, even your own Ontario Human Rights Commission, have called on you to repeal

this act, but you've done nothing.

Can you tell us when the McGuinty government will stop giving speeches on this issue and repeal the act?

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky (Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs): I think it's important that the people of Ontario understand the

commitment of this Minister of Education to deal with this. It is because of his concern that he has made a commitment to review the safe schools legislation. There will be consultations; they will

begin this month in the city of Toronto.

The minister recognizes that certainly there are issues when young people are no longer able to attend in a school system. We see that, quite frankly, as a

waste of our human resources and we are making investments to ensure that our young people stay in school until the age of 18. We believe it's important that they continue to learn; it may not be

in a formal school setting, but we see tremendous opportunity for our young people to continue to learn up until the age of 18.

Those are the kinds of programs that this Minister of Education is implementing.

Mr. Hampton: Minister, 64 young people are dead on the streets of Toronto. What we need is some action. We don't need more dithering, we don't

need more speeches; we need some action.

Before the election, you said you were opposed to the Safe Schools Act because it discriminated against youth who were already in trouble. You said it

discriminated against black youth. You said it discriminated against poor youth. The Ontario Human Rights Commission has said that, yes, it discriminates.

Earlier today a 16-year-old, Keelon Featherstone, who was handcuffed, placed in a cruiser and strip-searched by police after he was wrongly accused of stealing

pop and chips at school, said this act needs to be repealed.

Can you tell the people of Ontario how long you are going to consult, how long you are going to dither, how many more young people are going to be shot on the

street?

Hon. Mrs. Dombrowsky: As I've already indicated, our government is committed to reviewing the legislation. We are committed to consulting with

the people in our communities, with families who have children in schools, with families who have been affected by this legislation and with people in our larger communities. We believe that that

is the responsible way to move forward.

I think it's fair to say that our government is absolutely committed to keeping young people in school as long as they can be. That's why we will be

introducing legislation to require young people to learn until the age of 18. That does not necessarily mean they're going to be in a regular school setting, but they will be in an instructional

setting. We are working to improve access to apprenticeship programs for young people in Ontario. Our youth are our greatest resource, and we believe in investing in their development.

SCHOOL NUTRITION PROGRAMS

Mrs. Carol Mitchell (Huron-Bruce): My question is for the Minister of Children and Youth Services. We know that children have a better chance

of succeeding when they arrive at class well nourished, and our government has made significant investments to ensure that our children are ready and eager to learn by the time they reach grade

Our government has also made substantial investments to improve the quality of our children's education once they reach grade 1 to help ensure that these

students succeed. But if a child arrives at school hungry, it's unlikely they will fully benefit from a higher-quality educational experience.

Minister, what is our government doing to ensure that our children arrive at school well nourished and ready to learn?

Hon. Mary Anne V. Chambers (Minister of Children and Youth Services): I'm very pleased to respond to the question from my colleague the MPP

for Huron-Bruce.

Last year we announced that we would do more than simply increase the funding for the student nutrition program. We have almost doubled the funding from $4.5

million per year to $8.5 million a year. In fact, as of last month, the start of this school year, 253,000 students are receiving breakfasts or snacks or lunches as a result of this revamped

program. I remember making this announcement and hearing stories about teachers sending kids to rooms to get snacks so that they could perform more effectively.

Mrs. Mitchell: That is wonderful news. I know that our government is making a substantial commitment to our children on being well nourished

and ready to learn at school each day.

But we all know that different communities have different needs. You've mentioned the revamped program, that it will be in a better position to meet local

needs. Minister, could you explain how that program will work?

Hon. Mrs. Chambers: The program has been revamped to include more involvement from local agencies. There are now 15 local agencies helping to

determine the needs of local communities and to deliver to those needs. We also had dietitians contribute to the redesign of the programs so that food is more nutritious. So 67,000 more young

people will have access to fresher, more nutritious breakfasts, snacks and lunches.

I'm pleased to tell the member from Huron-Bruce that, in your region, more than 37,000 students are benefiting. I want to thank you for your interest in this

and your support for your young people in your region; $1.2 million went to your region.

WATER QUALITY

Mr. Toby Barrett (Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant): To the Acting Premier: Ontario has some of the toughest laws for safe, clean drinking water, yet

under your government's watch -- under your watch -- the Six Nations community turned up a report of 82% of their wells showing coliform. They have the largest native community in Canada with some

of the dirtiest water in the country.

A year and a half ago, I raised the following questions in the Ontario Legislature, and I'll give your government another chance to answer: "Where is the

provincial-federal coordination on drinking water" for Six Nations? Does "the left hand know what the right hand is doing? Are both levels of government talking to each other?" Do you not

appreciate the urgency of the situation? Question number 5: Do you believe the water at Six Nations is safe?

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky (Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs): The honourable member would know that the Leader of the Opposition

asked this question of the Premier last week, at which time the Premier made it very clear that it was in April 2004 that the Minister of the Environment for this government wrote to the federal

minister and made it very clear that we were aware of this issue and that our government was prepared to provide whatever resources the federal government would require to assist them in addressing

the water quality issue on the Six Nations reserve.

We continue to be committed to providing those resources when the federal government needs that support. That is also consistent with what Justice O'Connor

would say the role of the provincial government should be: that the responsibility is that of the federal government, but that the province of Ontario should be able to provide resources that may

not be available to the federal government to deal with water quality issues on First Nations reserves.

Mr. Barrett: You've written a letter, but it has been a year and a half, Acting Premier, and we're still waiting for some action. We're seeing

lack of information-sharing. We're seeing finger pointing. We need leadership, not bickering between different levels of government. This is not a game of hot potato. People's lives are at

stake.

I stated five questions. I think I'll state them again and give you an opportunity to answer. These were questions posed a year and a half ago: Where is the

provincial-federal coordination? Does the left hand know what the right hand is doing? Are both levels of government talking to each other? Do you not appreciate the urgency of this situation? Do

you believe the water at Six Nations is safe? Those are the five questions.

Hon. Mrs. Dombrowsky: Our government certainly does believe that water quality is a priority for all of the people of Ontario. For those

people for whom we have responsibility as a province, for municipal water systems, we are making significant investments, and we are ensuring that the recommendations of Justice O'Connor will be

implemented. When I speak of Justice O'Connor and his recommendations, he also identified that there are water quality issues that must be considered on First Nations reserves. He has made it very

clear that it is the responsibility of the federal government. The Prime Minister of Canada has accepted and acknowledged that it is a federal responsibility. Our provincial government has, on more

than one occasion, made it very clear that our government is prepared to provide whatever resources we can to the federal government so they can ensure that water on First Nations property is safe

for the people who live there.

LANDFILL

Ms. Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): I have a question for the Acting Premier. It's another water question. For over seven years now, the

Mohawk First Nation at the Bay of Quinte has been opposing the proposed expansion of the Richmond landfill. They warned how the expansion of this landfill puts their source of drinking water at

even further risk. Like Kashechewan and 51 other First Nations, this Mohawk one is already under a boil-water advisory.

Now the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency has released a report confirming this very point. In light of CEAA's findings and the evacuation happening

because of water contamination, will you stop the Richmond landfill expansion today?

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky (Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs): To the parliamentary assistant for the Minister of the

Environment.

Mr. John Wilkinson (Perth-Middlesex): I'd like to thank the member for the question and bring you up to date about Richmond. I understand that

the environmental assessment process is still underway, but it's important to note that citizens will have two opportunities to contribute their comments on the proposed project. There are seven

weeks to comment on the proponent's EA report and five weeks to comment on the ministry's review report. I would encourage citizens to participate in the EA process.

Ms. Churley: This happens to be in the Acting Premier's riding, so I'd think there would be an interest here, given the report that just came

out. It warns that the leachate could seep out of the proposed mega-dump into surrounding waterways that provide the Bay of Quinte Mohawk First Nation with their drinking water.

On the campaign trail, Minister, your government expressed your opposition to this landfill, but then once in office you sided with the project's proponent,

Waste Management Canada. The report says that this landfill site appears to be in violation of several of Justice O'Connor's recommendations from the Walkerton inquiry, yet you are still siding

with this company. Will you do what is necessary? Forget about the EA, just stop it in light of what's going on on First Nations in this province. Stand up here today and say you will stop this

landfill from going ahead.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Order. Parliamentary assistant.

Mr. Wilkinson: It's basically unbelievable that a member with your experience in this House would say to this House that we should get rid of

the environmental assessment process in this process on a party. I can tell you that there is an environmental assessment process underway.

Ms. Churley: Tell the truth.

The Speaker: Order. I need the member for Toronto-Danforth to withdraw.

Ms. Churley: I withdraw.

Mr. Wilkinson: It's very important that all of us in this House respect the environmental assessment process that we find ourselves using in

this province. It provides checks and balances. It protects people. It protects the environment for our children and our grandchildren. Though sometimes people can be taken away with emotion and

say that we should somehow get rid of this process, I would tell the member, yet again, that it is not in the best interests of people. What citizens in this province need to do is look at the

process underway and participate in it. That is what the Ministry of the Environment encourages for all citizens with concerns about this or any other process, any other project that is under the

environmental assessment process.

DOMESTIC VIOLENCE

Mr. Jim Brownell (Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh): My question is to the Minister of Community and Social Services. Minister, this past

summer, a number of incidents of domestic violence occurred within my riding of Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh. On Saturday, September 17, the life of a 28-year-old woman, who contributed much to

her community, was cut short through a tragic murder. This young woman, who has been described as a kind soul by those who knew her, is not a statistic; she was a woman considered by everyone to be

bubbly, attractive and perhaps, most telling, so young. Sadly, her story is not unique. Here are two headlines that appeared in local press this past summer from my riding: "Woman Pushed to the

Ground and Kicked" and "Living in Fear: Domestic Abuse a Disturbing Problem." There have been similar stories from across the province.

Minister, I know that you take issues of domestic abuse and violence very seriously. Could you tell us what the government is doing to combat the increase in

such crimes?

Hon. Sandra Pupatello (Minister of Community and Social Services, minister responsible for women's issues): I appreciate the question from

this member in particular, who has spoken with me in light of incidents in his own riding and how concerned he is that our government is moving forward in the right direction. I believe that our

landmark domestic violence action plan is doing just that.

Particular to these justice issues, where we have to worry that we are seeing stories like this, and we have to be certain that we are responding in kind, let

me point to the ODARA tool, a risk assessment tool that is being piloted now in both North Bay and Ottawa, starting in January of this past year. When we see those tools and the evaluation, we will

know that we can roll them out province-wide and we'll determine when we can do that. The model police response is also being analyzed to be certain that it is effective and standardized. In

addition, there are a number of police responses and justice responses: the $2.5 million that we've been putting forward toward the bail hearings. Again, the standardization of how the system

responds to these incidents is critical. Those are items that were in our plan, and we are --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Brownell: I know our colleagues will agree that we must do everything in our power to stop this kind of violence from happening. The

effects of abuse are devastating and far-reaching. As much as we must try to stop it, we must also look to providing care and support for those who have been victimized by it.

On August 25, I informed the people of my riding of a new action plan initiated by your ministry that would provide investments to agencies that provide

services to those who suffer from abuse. More to the point, this investment has been tailored to meet the distinct needs of women of all cultural backgrounds within our communities. Minister, would

you expand on this program for us, and explain how women from Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh who have faced abuse will benefit?

Hon. Ms. Pupatello: I am very pleased to say that I know as well that the local member was very happy to see that initially, even in our first

budget, we moved to increase the operating budget, for the first time in 12 years, by 3% in those agencies that provide support. One of our more recent announcements was specifically around

counselling dollars, and in this area that is so critical -- and we know we need to do more -- we saw an increase of 10%. There are three tremendous agencies in this member's riding, which I know

will use that and help women who have been through this most horrific experience.

We also know that this fall we're launching our first-ever provincial-wide conference called Finding Common Ground. To date, we have blown the doors off on the

registration for this conference, where we will see 70 speakers coming together. There are excellent practices across the province in this area dealing with domestic violence, and we want to roll

that up and be sure that we have excellence in every region of Ontario.

PROVINCIAL DEFICIT

Mr. Tim Hudak (Erie-Lincoln): I have a question to the Acting Premier. Acting Premier, the timing of your economic statement of the day of

Justice Gomery's report is very curious. We suspect that you're simply trying to hide behind the skirts of Justice Gomery's report. One suggestion is that you tried to hide the fact that your

deficit is actually going to increase. Can you tell us how much greater the deficit will be this year than what you reported last year?

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky (Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs): I couldn't disagree with the honourable member more. In fact, we know

that the announcement we will make around our economy in Ontario tomorrow is going to be very positive and encouraging for the people in Ontario. We had no way of predicting that there was going to

be another key announcement at another level of government that will probably command the airwaves. I will say, with confidence, that I believe the people of Ontario will be very heartened and

confident at the end of tomorrow that this government is a good fiscal manager.

Mr. Hudak: It's no surprise that the Acting Premier did not answer my question specifically on the deficit, because in fact your own budget

papers indicate that your deficit is going to increase from $1.6 billion to $2.8 billion in the 2005-06 fiscal year, an 88% increase in your deficit. The reality is that there's no justifiable

reason for that. You're allotted $10 billion in revenue, taken from hard-working taxpayers and businesses in Ontario. I'll ask you again, Acting Premier -- taxpayers have to know -- please tell us

that your deficit is not going to increase.

Hon. Mrs. Dombrowsky: I find it interesting: I'd like to know where your crystal ball is that you would say, or you would present, that you

know exactly what's going to be in the statement tomorrow. I have made a commitment to the people in this House today that the economic statement that will be released from this government tomorrow

will demonstrate that our government is committed to responsibly managing the tax dollars that come to us from the people of Ontario. We are committed, certainly, to reducing the deficit, the

$5.6-billion deficit that was left to us by the previous government when they said there was none. We arrived, and it was significant.

What I can say to the honourable member is that tomorrow it will demonstrate that we certainly have a handle on dealing with the poor spending practices of

your government. In addition to doing that, we have reduced the deficit and seen a climate that has increased jobs in Ontario. This is good news for the people who live here. We look forward to

doing that.

CHEDOKE LONG-TERM-CARE FACILITY

Ms. Andrea Horwath (Hamilton East): My question is to the Acting Premier. Your government closed Hamilton's Chedoke complex continuing care

centre and transferred many of the patients to nursing homes. These patients are severely disabled, with multiple complex medical conditions. In fact, at least five of these patients have since

passed away, within two months of being transferred out of Chedoke, and the coroner's office is currently investigating these deaths. What are you telling family members who have told you -- and in

fact have told your minister, who is unfortunately not here to answer the question -- their loved ones are not receiving adequate care since being transferred out of that facility?

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky (Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs): I thank the honourable member for the question. I would say that

we're very concerned about the issues that the honourable member has raised. She has indicated that family members have had the opportunity to speak directly with the minister. I have to say that I

have not had a conversation with the minister to understand the details or what you're asking of me, but what I can commit to you today is to bring this to the attention of the minister directly,

and then he would get back to you on this.

Ms. Horwath: In view of the coroner's investigation, and the serious concerns that family members have relayed to the minister, I'd like to

take a minute to inform you of the details. The health of their loved ones is deteriorating. They're developing bedsores where they never developed them after 20 years in the previous facility.

They're not getting the physical therapy that they need. Their arms and legs are seizing up and their physical abilities are diminishing. They're in facilities that do not accommodate their

physical condition. They can't even access the elevator buttons, Acting Premier. The reduced ratio of staff to patient does not meet the medical needs of their complex conditions.

In light of these issues, will you have the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care review and reassess each and every one of the transfers, and will you put a

temporary hold on the transfer of the few remaining patients until the coroner's investigation has been completed?

Hon. Mrs. Dombrowsky: I would like to thank the honourable member. She obviously is very committed to this issue and to the individuals who

have been impacted. I will give her my undertaking today that I will most definitely bring the details of her question to his attention. Certainly, knowing the commitment of the minister, he will

respond to her in an appropriate time frame. I thank the member for her question.

GAMBLING

Mr. Bruce Crozier (Essex): My question is for the Minister of Health Promotion. Gambling is an activity that many responsible adults take

part

in. For most Ontarians, a night out at the casino -- win, lose or draw -- is an evening of entertainment. But I want to bring to the minister's attention a 2003 study from Harvard University which

showed a troubling risk for developing problem gambling behaviours amongst youth. The study, and similar ones in Ontario, showed that the rate of problem gambling among 18- to 24-year-olds is about

7% -- twice the general average.

Minister, what action is being taken to ensure that youth do not develop serious gambling problems?

Hon. Jim Watson (Minister of Health Promotion): I thank the member for Essex for his question. Problem gambling, of course, is a serious

problem for a small but significant portion of our society. On Monday, October 24 of this year, the Responsible Gambling Council launched the "friends4friends" peer awareness campaign. This is a

program funded by my ministry. It's a Canadian first, based on extensive research. It showed that peer pressure is one of the most effective ways of reaching the 18- to 24-year-old demographic

group.

It's a $2-million education and prevention campaign which will run between now and March 2006. It includes an interactive Web site, which is

friends4friends.ca, which provides young people with the tools they need to help their peers through some troubling times.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): There are lobbies in this building to carry on conversations that are not germane to question period.

The member for Essex.

Mr. Crozier: Thank you, Speaker, and thank you, Minister. I also wanted to draw your attention, though, to the many adults who are problem

gamblers as well. While most individuals can enjoy gambling as a recreational activity, to a small but significant group of people gambling is problematic and does impact negatively on their

lives.

Minister, how is your ministry working to prevent all individuals from becoming problem gamblers in the first place?

Interjection.

The Speaker: Before the member replies, the member from Nepean-Carleton would know that he's one of the members of the Legislature and knows

where the lobbies are, so perhaps he would sit down.

Interjection: His mind is somewhere else.

Hon. Mr. Watson: Mr. Speaker, my friend said, "His mind is somewhere else." I think it's in Ottawa West-Nepean -- the honourable member from

Nepean-Carleton.

This is a serious issue. The Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care, of course, operates the problem gambling hotline. The number, if I could give it out, is

1-888-230-3505.

The McGuinty government, in fact, provides more funding than any other government in Ontario's history.

Interjections.

Hon. Mr. Watson: Perhaps the NDP thinks this is a joke. Perhaps they think it's a laughing matter when this government is trying to help those

people with gambling addictions, particularly when their party brought in gambling in the province of Ontario. So I would suggest they stop laughing and listen to what we're doing on this side of

the House.

Our ministry is providing $9 million in prevention and education strategies as part of the $36-million problem gambling strategy.

ARCHIVES OF ONTARIO

Mrs. Julia Munro (York North): My question is to the Minister of Government Services. I have repeatedly pointed out in this House the Liberal

government's continuing failure to replace the unsafe and inadequate building housing Ontario's archives. Your government cancelled our PC government deal that would have saved the archives. For

more than a year, the government has been promising action. It is now clear that you have no plan; you will take no action.

What are you doing, Minister, to preserve the irreplaceable documents and artifacts that are so important to Ontarians?

Hon. Gerry Phillips (Minister of Government Services): To the member, two things: First, we're taking all the necessary steps in the existing

building to both -- most importantly, actually -- protect the health and safety of the people who work there, but also, obviously, to protect the resources that we have stored there.

Secondly, we have made a commitment to a long-term, new facility. The Minister of Public Infrastructure Renewal is doing the necessary background work to

prepare what we call a request for proposal from the community on how we best can replace the archives.

As I said earlier in the House, we are dedicated to a long-term, quality solution for our archives that everyone in the province will be very proud of. That

requires the background work. I think in the next few months -- I hope in the next few weeks; but I can certainly promise in the next few months -- we'll be out publicly to get that proposal.

Mrs. Munro: I certainly appreciate the response with regard to the health and safety of the people who work in the archives, but I am very

conscious of the fact that the mould and the lack of security and things like that represented such a major investment that it was deemed appropriate by our government to look for a new home. You

mentioned that you have started some steps which would see something change, in terms of a new building. I guess the question that so many people would want to know is, when can we expect to see a

new home for Ontario's treasures?

Hon. Mr. Phillips: Again, just to add to my answer on the first part: Recognize that we have entered into a relationship with a warehouse

where about 80% of our records will be stored. That we've done, and we have moved about 80% of the material into that new building already. So that's done.

The specific question you asked: When we can expect? I said in my answer that we can expect in the next few months -- I hope in the next few weeks -- to have a

request for proposals out publicly so we can find recommendations for various possible solutions.

When will it be finally implemented? Frankly, these things can't happen overnight, so it probably is two or three years before it happens. In the meantime, as

I say, 80% of our archives are stored in a warehouse facility. The health and safety of our employees -- to the best of our ability, the best way we can preserve the existing archives is taking

place in the existing building. But we're probably looking at two to three years before the new archives.

PENSION PLAN

Ms. Andrea Horwath (Hamilton East): The question is to the Acting Premier, in the absence of the new Minister of Finance. Acting Premier, I

wanted to ask you a question about the participating Co-operatives of Ontario's trusteed pension plan.

Over two years ago, the 2,300 members of the plan had very modest pension benefits averaging less than $700 a month cut in half to $350 a month, through no

fault of their own. On May 24, 2005, the superintendent of pensions at FSCO, K. David Gordon, notified the members of the plan that FSCO had reached a preliminary decision that the 50% reduction in

benefits for the retired members of the plan contravened the plan bylaws and was invalid. Since then, however, there's been delay after delay after delay in implementing the decision. The latest is

an extension of the appeal process until January 25, 2006.

Minister, will you do justice to the members of the plan and put a stop to the endless delays?

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky (Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs): First of all, I'd like to thank the honourable member for the

question. This is an issue that I hear about in my own riding as well.

What I can indicate to the honourable member today is that I will bring this request to his attention, and I'm sure that when it is appropriate, he will act as

he sees fit and in the best interests of all of the people of Ontario. But I believe that this is something that all members of this House have received some information on.

That the appeal process has been extended, I think, would suggest that there continues to be some opportunity for folks who are not happy with the decision to

make that known.

Ms. Horwath: Acting Premier, you're quite correct: These members of this plan are in every single one of our ridings. But unfortunately, FSCO,

the government's pension regulator, was partly responsible for the very fiasco that you've all heard about through the presentations and the documents they're providing to us. They had ample

warning of the problems of the plan but did nothing about it. Now, they seem to be stalling again and again in the implementation of the decision that came down earlier this year. Unfortunately,

the people who are suffering are those pensioners who worked very hard all their lives for their pensions.

Acting Premier, I ask you again: Will you do justice to the members of the plan and put a stop to the endless delays and just enforce the decision that was

brought down on May 24, 2005?

Hon. Mrs. Dombrowsky: What I will do is what I indicated to the honourable member when I answered her first question, and that is to bring

this to the attention of the minister.

MANDATORY RETIREMENT

Ms. Judy Marsales (Hamilton West): My question today is for the Minister of Labour. Our government is implementing an aggressive legislative

agenda that will change the face of the province for the better. Last week, you introduced second reading of Bill 211, a bill that, if passed, will prohibit mandatory retirement in the province of

Ontario, ending decades of discrimination against older but still so very competent workers. I know that many applaud this initiative, understanding that mandatory retirement undermines the dignity

and sense of self-worth of older workers. However, I also know that there are concerns and, at times, a lack of understanding of the bill's true intent.

Minister, can you clarify why the government is introducing legislation to end mandatory retirement and to reassure the fine people of this province that this

is long overdue and it is the right thing to do?

Hon. Steve Peters (Minister of Labour): As you know, this legislation, if passed, will amend the human rights act by amending the definition

of "age."

This is about choice. This is about ending a culture of discrimination that exists in this province, a culture that has existed for far too long. When somebody

turns 65, they don't suddenly lose the skills they had, the determination they had, the drive they had. Many of these individuals still have a great deal to contribute to society. So we're

certainly conscious of that.

We want to give people the right to retire; we don't want to force people to retire. That's why I would urge every member of this House to support Bill 211:

because it's about choice. It's the right thing to do.

PETITIONS

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr. John Yakabuski (Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke): I have a petition here for the Legislative Assembly of Ontario. I want to thank Paul Melcher,

Dave Markus and Rick Krieger for visiting me in my office to give me this petition and bring this matter to my attention. Rick Krieger is a client with Community Living in Upper Ottawa Valley.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas without appropriate support, people who have an intellectual disability are often unable to participate effectively in community life and are deprived

of the benefits of society enjoyed by other citizens; and

"Whereas quality supports are dependent upon the ability to attract and retain qualified workers; and

"Whereas the salaries of workers who provide community-based supports and services are up to 25% less than salaries paid to those doing the same work in

government-operated services and other sectors;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to address, as a priority, funding to community agencies in the developmental services

sector to address critical underfunding of staff salaries and ensure that people who have an intellectual disability continue to receive quality supports and services that they require in order to

live meaningful lives within their community."

I support this petition. I affix my name to it and pass it to Jeffrey for you, Speaker.

DIABETES TREATMENT

Mr. Khalil Ramal (London-Fanshawe):

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"We are requesting that all diabetic supplies, especially and including insulin infusion pumps and the supplies to maintain them, as prescribed by an

endocrinologist or medical doctor, be covered under the Ontario health insurance plan.

"Diabetes costs Canadian taxpayers $13 billion a year and increasing! It is the leading cause of death and hospitalization in Canada. Many people with diabetes

cannot afford the ongoing expense of managing" the disease. "They cut corners to save money. They rip test strips in half, cut down on the number of times they test their blood, and even reuse

lancets and needles. These cost-saving measures have tumultuous and disastrous health consequences.

"Persons with diabetes need and deserve financial assistance to cope with the escalating costs of managing diabetes. We think it is in all Ontarians' and the

government's best interest to support diabetics with the supplies that each individual needs to obtain optimum glucose control. Good blood glucose control reduces or eliminates kidney failure by

50%, blindness by 76%, nerve damage by 60%, cardiac disease by 35% and even amputations.

"Just think of how many dollars can be saved by the Ministry of Health if diabetics had a chance to gain optimum glucose control."

I agree with this petition. Almost 4,000 have signed this petition, and I want to affix my signature to it too.

PUBLIC TRANSIT

Mr. John O'Toole (Durham): I have a petition from my riding of Durham to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas Bill 137 introduced by Durham MPP John O'Toole has received second reading in the Legislative Assembly of Ontario; and

"Whereas Bill 137 would support public transit by allowing transit users to obtain a non-refundable income tax credit for up to 50% of expenses that they incur

and pay for using public transit; and

"Whereas this tax credit would be a valuable incentive to support the use of public transit; and

"Whereas public transit would reduce greenhouse gas emissions, ease gridlock, reduce rush hours and generally improve the quality of life in Ontario

communities;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, urge the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to support Bill 137 so that more Ontarians are encouraged to make public transit a

part of their daily commute and part of their everyday routine."

I'm pleased to support this on behalf of my constituents in the riding of Durham, and present it to Trevor, one of the pages here in the Legislative

Assembly.

COMMUNITY CENTRE

Mr. Lorenzo Berardinetti (Scarborough Southwest): I have a petition addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario and it reads as

follows:

"Whereas the Warden corridor in the heart of Scarborough Southwest is going through a major redevelopment with industrial land being converted for residential

use;

"Whereas the residents of the surrounding community want to ensure that there are enough community supports to ensure that community needs for recreation are

met;

"Whereas a community centre, located in the heart of the Warden corridor, would go a long way to ensuring that these community supports are met;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to work in conjunction with the city of Toronto in providing the necessary funds to help

construct this community centre as an example of the government's commitment to build strong communities in urban centres."

I agree with this petition and affix my signature to it.

MACULAR DEGENERATION

Mr. Kuldip Kular (Bramalea-Gore-Malton-Springdale): My petition is to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas the government of Ontario's health insurance plan covers treatments for one form of macular degeneration ... there are other forms of macular

degeneration ... that are not covered.

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"There are thousands of Ontarians who suffer from macular degeneration, resulting in loss of sight if treatment is not pursued. Treatment cost for this disease

is astronomical for most constituents and adds a financial burden to their lives. Their only alternative is loss of sight. We believe the government of Ontario should cover treatment for all forms

of macular degeneration through the Ontario health insurance program."

I also sign this petition.

MUNICIPAL RESTRUCTURING

Ms. Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): I have a petition that comes to me from people in Kawartha Lakes and reads as follows:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas Dalton McGuinty, MPP, as leader of the official opposition made the following commitment: `I have committed that a Liberal government will ensure a

binding referendum is held to allow local citizens to determine whether or not to dismantle the amalgamated city'; and

"Whereas, in the interest of true democracy, the Minister of Municipal Affairs put the following question to the voters of the city of Kawartha Lakes: `Are you

in favour of a return to the previous municipal model of government with an upper-tier and 16 lower-tier municipalities?'; and

"Whereas the voters, by a clear majority on a provincially mandated ballot, answered in the affirmative; and

"Whereas the council of the city of Kawartha Lakes has demanded that the province of Ontario honour the results of the 2003 election as it pertains to the

minister's question;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, demand that the Legislative Assembly of Ontario act to honour the commitment made by Dalton McGuinty and to respect the will of

the people as expressed in a democratic vote, and restore the former municipal structure as stated in the minister's question."

I agree with the petitioners. I have affixed my signature to this.

PUBLIC TRANSIT

Mr. Bob Delaney (Mississauga West): I have a petition here for which I'd like to thank Sonny Sansone in Scarborough Southwest. It's to the

Legislative Assembly of Ontario, and I join with my colleague the member from Scarborough West in submitting it. It reads as follows:

"Whereas Scarborough Southwest is a growing community dependent on public transit to move people around;

"Whereas the city of Toronto and the Toronto Transit Commission are calling for and predicting continued growth in Scarborough Southwest over the next 25

years;

"Whereas the Toronto Transit Commission, in its growth plan, has called for the expansion of subway service to cover more of Scarborough;

"Whereas the government of Ontario has traditionally assisted the city of Toronto in funding subway expansion as recently as the Sheppard subway expansion

project;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to work in concert with the city of Toronto and come up with a funding arrangement to assist

in expanding subway service to Scarborough."

I'm a continuous user of the TTC, I support this petition, I affix my signature and ask page Austin to carry it.

ADOPTION DISCLOSURE

Mr. Norman W. Sterling (Lanark-Carleton): I have a petition regarding the Adoption Information Disclosure Act.

"Whereas Bill 183, the Adoption Information Disclosure Act, 2005, is currently before the Ontario Legislature and, if passed into law, will give unqualified

retroactive access to adoption records, regardless of the wishes of the adoptee or birth parent, which were previously understood to be sealed in perpetuity;

"Whereas the Ontario Information and Privacy Commissioner, Dr. Ann Cavoukian, along with every other information and privacy commissioner in Canada, members of

the legal community and many MPPs, have expressed great concern about Bill 183 as presently drafted and have called upon the government to amend it to include a disclosure veto provision and

protect the legitimate privacy rights of thousands of Ontarians;

"Whereas the right to file a disclosure veto would introduce the element of consent for birth parents and adoptees, allowing them the same choice afforded to

every other birth parent and adoptee in Canada, that being, whether or not they wish to disclose their personal identifying information, without having to plead their case before a tribunal and

justify their reasons for maintaining their privacy;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"Not to pass Bill 183 into law without the provision of an automatic disclosure veto."

I will sign that.

IMMIGRANTS' SKILLS

Mr. Kuldip Kular (Bramalea-Gore-Malton-Springdale): This petition was collected by Sonny Sansone from Scarborough.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas new immigrants to this province have professional designations in a wide variety of areas;

"Whereas the barriers that exist to have these designations recognized in Ontario are extremely unfair;

"Whereas these barriers force many skilled immigrants to take up jobs that barely pay minimum wage and make it hard for these people to make ends meet;

"Whereas shortages in various professional vocations such as doctors can easily be addressed if these barriers are revised;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to request the government to come up with a plan to address the problem of underused skills

among immigrants with professional designations."

I support this petition. I put my signature on this one as well.

ADOPTION DISCLOSURE

Mr. John Yakabuski (Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke): A petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas Bill 183, the Adoption Information Disclosure Act, 2005, is currently before the Ontario Legislature and, if passed into law, will give unqualified

retroactive access to adoption records, regardless of the wishes of the adoptee or birth parent, which were previously understood to be sealed in perpetuity;

"Whereas the Ontario Information and Privacy Commissioner, Dr. Ann Cavoukian, along with every other Information and Privacy Commissioner in Canada, members of

the legal community and many MPPs, have expressed great concern about Bill 183 as presently drafted and have called upon the government to amend it to include a disclosure veto provision and

protect the legitimate privacy rights of thousands of Ontarians;

"Whereas the right to file a disclosure veto would introduce the element of consent for birth parents and adoptees, allowing them the same choice afforded to

every other birth parent and adoptee in Canada, that being, whether or not they wish to disclose their personal identifying information, without having to plead their case before a tribunal and

justify their reasons for maintaining their privacy;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"Not to pass Bill 183 into law without the provision of an automatic disclosure veto."

I support this petition and I sign it, and I send it to the table with Alexandra.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

BUDGET MEASURES ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005

SUR LES MESURES BUDGÉTAIRES

Resuming the debate adjourned on October 25, 2005, on the motion for second reading of Bill 197,

An Act to implement Budget measures / Projet de loi 197,

Loi mettant en oeuvre certaines mesures budgétaires.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Further debate?

Mr. Michael Prue (Beaches-East York): On the last occasion, after having exhausted some 52 minutes, I ran out of time. I have 8 minutes left,

and I'd just like to go back to where I was. I was talking about the environment; I was talking about the cutbacks to the environmental program, and the detrimental effect they have had in Ontario.

I talked about the water in Kashechewan, because that was the day that the news broke, and I talked about the lack of government plans around that and how the water degradation in that particular

community had caused irreparable harm to the people who lived there.

I went on to talk about the water degradation closer to home as well, at Lake Simcoe. Many of us in this Legislature had an opportunity to meet with the Ladies

of the Lake. I talked about the calendar, and how they're trying to get some money together to try to stop the degradation of what is arguably Ontario's best-used water resource in terms of

boating, recreation, fishing and swimming, and that the people all around southern Ontario, particularly in the GTA, look to Lake Simcoe as a place for recreation, and how, in fact, ordinary

citizens are having to do extraordinary things to try to protect the environment, because there simply isn't enough money in this government's coffers to do so.

Then my time ran out. Just as it ran out, I was about to get on to the issue that is grabbing a lot of headlines in the last couple of weeks, and that is the

issue of the big pipe that is being put forward for the communities north of Toronto. The city of Toronto certainly has weighed in; the city of Toronto has passed a motion asking this Legislature

and the minister to stop the big pipe. They have talked about the degradation of the land and the aquifer of the Oak Ridges moraine. They've talked about the potential health hazards, should

anything go wrong with this big pipe as the water is transferred from the area north of Toronto through the various pipes to end up in Pickering.

They are quite right in their assessment of what this big pipe is all about. To date, in the construction that has taken place, 30 billion litres of water have

been taken out of the ground in the aquifer of the Oak Ridges moraine -- 30 billion litres of water, which is not likely to be replaced in the short term. If this continues, another 60 billion

litres of water will be taken out of that aquifer. To put that in context, what is happening each and every day since the time that the construction has been undertaken until the time, should the

big pipe be completed -- it amounts to 71 million litres. The average backyard pool, for people who have a swimming pool, just to put this in context, has between 15,000 and 20,000 litres of water.

This is 71 billion litres taken out of the groundwater in the Oak Ridges moraine, probably never to be replaced.

When that water table goes down, when that water is gone, what happens? We're already starting to see it happen. First of all the wells go dry, and in York

region 120 wells to date have gone dry, wells that have been in some of the locations for a century, wells that provided water for cattle and farms, wells that provided water for people to drink.

They have simply dried up because the groundwater has sunk so low. Farmers are losing their groundwater, so it's becoming increasingly difficult and more expensive to get water to cattle.

We have seen what is happening in Rouge Park; the minister stood up today talking about the Rouge again, and he was talking about Rouge Park. The trout streams

that go all through Rouge Park, the trout streams where I used to fish occasionally as a boy, have gone dry; they have gone stagnant. The trout that the Ministry of Natural Resources put in them

are starting to die off. So I wonder, when the trout streams start to go dry, doesn't anybody twig to what's happening? You might say it was kind of a wet summer, but the groundwater itself is what

is to blame. It's simply not there.

All of this has happened while this government seems to be frozen. It seems to have inertia when it comes to the environment. Of all of the ministries to cut

back, this was one of them, where the money was taken away in the last budget. I am shocked a little, because it doesn't take very long to see how the environment is affected. It doesn't take long

to see the pollution, the degradation. It doesn't take long to see what happens in Kashechewan. It doesn't take long to see what's happening around Lake Simcoe or, more recently, what will happen

if the big pipe is not stopped. There are simply not enough resources in the environment department to cut them back. There is not sufficient staff to monitor what is going on by cutting back even

more. There are not sufficient monies to hire expertise to simply cut it back again. This budget did that to the environment branch, along with several others, and it is not something of which this

government should be proud.

In the few minutes remaining: On the last occasion I talked about the failure of Bill 197 to address the real needs of Ontario. I talked about how it took six

months to get that bill before this Legislature, and the failure has manifested itself in, oh, so many ways: The hospitals that needed some 7% only got 4.7%, and we have seen hospitals in the last

two weeks talking about cutting back their staff and their essential services, and in some cases even their emergency departments. We have seen the mistakes the government made trying to bail

themselves out by making secret deals on P3 hospitals. We have seen the Ministries of the Environment, Culture, Natural Resources, Agriculture and Northern Development all with reduced budgets and

the real, detrimental impact.

But I have to tell you that the biggest impact, the biggest detriment to all the people of this province, really has to be among those who are our poorest

citizens. If you look at what has happened in terms of the clawback -- and I heard one of the ministers responding today about putting $8 million into a food program at schools. That pales in

comparison to the money that you are clawing back from the poorest children in this province. If you give them $8 million to eat in school, you have to know that you are taking 50 or 100 times that

out of their mouths every single year. It does not make sense to me to claw that money back, and this government continues to do it. It does not make sense to me for this government to have

promised to build so many housing units and to have failed to deliver, or, in the alternative, to have offered money for rent supplements, and only 400 rent supplements are currently being given in

this entire province. It is unconscionable to talk about the poorest of the poor on Ontario Works or ODSP and in this budget give them not one cent of extra increase. They are people who are

actually worse off today than they were in the worst times of Mike Harris, and this government ought not to be proud of that.

On the last occasion, I talked about child care. I talked about autism, how you're taking people with autistic children to court to fight them as they struggle

to do the best for their families. I talked about native affairs.

Mr. Speaker, my time is just about up, but I have to tell you, in the six months since this budget was introduced, things have gotten even worse.

The Deputy Speaker: Questions and comments?

Mr. Pat Hoy (Chatham-Kent Essex): I'm pleased to rise and make some comments about our budget that was held in recent days.

For the rural community, it's important for them to know, particularly our farmers, that in our budget, the Ontario Ministry of Agriculture and Food's base

budget actually increased. I know there was some conversation back at the time as to whether that was the case or not, but the OMAF budget actually increased by $15 million in 2005-06, so there are

many more dollars there: some $564 million with the Ministry of Agriculture and Food. We know that our farmers are going through some difficult times. Many of my colleagues and the Minister of

Agriculture have met with them in recent days, and I'm certain that we are going to move forward to address their problems in the future.

As well, this budget made the largest and most significant investment over a multi-year period in 40 years -- it is the largest investment in 40 years -- for

post-secondary education, which will result in new jobs and economic growth. It will help universities in my region, such as Windsor and Western. It will certainly assist colleges such as St.

Clair, Lambton and Fanshawe colleges. At $6.2 billion, it's a significant part of our budget initiative. We know that a well-educated province will move us forward into the new economies as they

change and evolve over time -- and most certainly they will, these economies of the world. Part of that initiative will increase financial aid for some 135,000 low- and middle-income students,

giving them a chance to contribute in their education, and therefore to the province of Ontario.

Mr. Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): I'm pleased to add some comments to the speech by the member from Beaches-East York, and I would like

to say that he gave an excellent hour-long speech and it was very thoughtful. Of course, I may not necessarily agree with everything he said, his perspective, but I do respect that he spent a lot

of time thinking about what he was saying. I had the pleasure of sharing a flight, a trip with the committee to the north last year, with the member from Beaches-East York, and we visited a number

of the northern communities, including Attawapiskat, quite close by the Kashechewan area.

I have to say that today, when I asked a question of the Minister of Natural Resources to do with the situation in Kashechewan, I was quite surprised to learn

that the minister was not aware of the 1992 agreement between the provincial government and the federal government, the emergency preparedness agreement. In fact, he said today, in answer to a

question in question period, that it wasn't until last Tuesday that he discovered that he was responsible for declaring an emergency on the First Nation. I'm very surprised by that. I would have

thought someone in the Ministry of Natural Resources would have let the minister know that that was the government's responsibility, or that perhaps the past minister responsible for aboriginal

affairs -- Michael Bryant, the Attorney General, who was responsible for the past year and a half -- maybe would have briefed the current minister that that was part of his responsibilities. It

demonstrates how First Nations' concerns are not paid attention to. They are real concerns, and they so often just fall through the cracks.

I only have 15 seconds, so I can't go into great detail, but I would like to compliment the member from Beaches-East York on his speech. It was certainly very

carefully thought out.

Mr. Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): I congratulate my friend from Beaches-East York; he covered a lot of ground. He talked about housing,

which is a theme that I will speak to in approximately an hour from now. You'll recall, as he reminded us, that the Liberals --

Hon. Marie Bountrogianni (Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, minister responsible for democratic renewal): A little advertisement.

Mr. Marchese: Please tune in. Stick around.

You will recall that the Liberals promised that thousands and thousands of units would be built for people who have an affordability problem to get into some

modest housing. That was an electoral promise, a campaign promise they made. They get into government, and two years later, how many units have they built, by their own record? Sixty three. The

minister of infrastructure stands up and he blah, blah, blahs about so many things, but by their own record, the data that we have seen that they have shown us -- 63 units.

Mr. Brad Duguid (Scarborough Centre): The shovels are in the ground.

Mr. Marchese: Members behind me who will speak after me might say, "The shovels are in the ground." I see only 63 units of all of the promises

they made of all the thousands of units that would be built.

Oh, yes, the Liberals really care. They care as much about housing as they do about ending the clawback of the national child care benefits that would go and

flow directly to women. The government said, "We would end that clawback, because we care." They get into government, and they don't do anything.

Hon. Mrs. Bountrogianni: Oh, for God's sake.

Mr. Marchese: Oh, but it's true. You might deny it all you want. Not one cent. That clawback is not ended. They didn't do what they promised.

As a result of that, $300 million, which would otherwise be going to people who need it, is not going anywhere. I thank the member for bringing that to our attention, and I will repeat it an hour

from now.

Mr. Peter Fonseca (Mississauga East): The 2005 budget is a great budget. It is taking care of the needs that we have today and positioning

Ontario for a bright future tomorrow.

I'll go along the vein of the member for Trinity-Spadina and talk a little bit about infrastructure that we're building.

Hospitals: I could say that in my community we are rebuilding the Trillium hospital -- it looks great; it's addressing community needs -- and the Credit Valley

Hospital.

Highways: 401, 403, 404, 410, the QEW. There is construction going on around this province. Infrastructure is getting built.

We are taking care of our water systems, pipes, sewers; making sure that we have the infrastructure to build a strong economy.

But our strong economy is not going to be built on just infrastructure, on bricks and mortar; our strong economy, through this budget, is going to be built on

our people. That's why we're investing so much in education: $6.2 billion in post-secondary education -- unprecedented in 40 years -- making sure that we have those engineers to build those

bridges, those buildings and those roads; making sure that we have those doctors, nurses, pediatricians to take care of our kids; making sure that we have professionals so that we are positioned

Ontario as a know