Manitoba Hansard — 29 October 1990 (Sitting 13B, 35th Legislature, 1st Session)

35-1-13b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

MG-8048 First Session - Thirty-Fifth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS (HANSARD) 39 Elizabeth II Published under the authority of The Honourable Denis C. Rocan Speaker VOL. XXXIX No. 13B - 8 p. m., MONDAY, OCTOBER 29, 1990 Printed by the Office of the Q.-ns Printer. Province of Manltobll ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Fifth Legislature Members, Constituencies and Polltlcal Afflllatlon NAME ALCOCK, Reg ASHTON, Steve BARRETT, Becky CARR, James CARSTAIRS, Sharon CERILLI, Marianne CHEEMA, Guizar CHOMIAK, Dave CONNERY, Edward, Hon. CUMMINGS , Glen, Hon. DACQUAY, Louise DERKACH, Leonard, Hon. DEWAR, Gregory DOER,Gary DOWNEY, James, Hon. DRIEDGER, Albert, Hon. DUCHARME, Gerry, Hon. EDWARDS, Paul ENNS, Harry, Hon. ERNST, Jim, Hon. EVANS, Clif EVANS, Leonard S. FILMON, Gary, Hon. FINDLAY, Glen, Hon. FRIESEN, Jean GAUDRY, Neil GILLESHAMMER, Harold, Hon. HARPER, Elijah HELWER, Edward R.

HICKES, George LAMOUREUX, Kevin LATHLIN, Oscar LAURENDEAU, Marcel MALOWAY, Jim MANNESS, Clayton, Hon. MARTINDALE, Doug McALPINE, Gerry McCRAE, James, Hon. MclNTOSH, Linda MITCHELSON, Bonnie, Hon. NEUFELD, Harold, Hon. ORCHARD, Donald, Hon. PENNER, Jack, Hon. PLOHMAN, John PRAZNIK, Darren, Hon. REID, Daryl REIMER, Jack RENDER, Shirley ROCAN, Denis, Hon. ROSE, Bob SANTOS, Conrad STEFANSON, Eric STORIE, Jerry SVEINSON, Ben VODREY, Rosemary WASYL YCIA-LEIS, Judy WOWCHUK, Rosann CONSTITUENCY Osborne Thompson Wellington Crescentwood River Heights Radisson The Maples Kildonan Portage la Prairie Ste.

Rose Seine River Roblin-Russell Selkirk Concordia Arthur-Virden Steinbach Riel St. James Lakeside Charleswood Interlake Brandon East Tuxedo Springfield Wolseley St. Boniface Minnedosa Rupertsland Gimli Point Douglas Inkster The Pas St. Norbert Elmwood Morris Burrows Sturgeon Creek Brandon West Assiniboia River East Rossmere Pembina Emerson Dauphin Lac du Bonnet Transcona Niakwa St. Vital Gladstone Turtle Mountain Broadway Kirkfield Park Flin Flon La Verendrye Fort Garry St. Johns Swan River PARTY.

Liberal NOP NOP Liberal Liberal NOP Liberal NOP PC PC PC PC NOP NDP PC PC PC Liberal PC PC NOP NDP PC PC NDP Liberal PC NDP PC NOP Liberal NOP PC NOP PC NOP PC PC PC PC PC PC PC NOP PC NOP PC PC PC PC NOP PC NDP PC PC NOP NDP

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Monday, October 29, 1990 The House met at 8 p.m. BUDGET DEBATE Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): Madam Deputy Speaker, it has been an interesting Session. Interesting in the sense that we very rapidly have moved from the initial wide-ranging debate of the throne speech to the point where now immediately thereafter we are discussing budget. An interesting Session in the sense that we have already seen a watershed in the life of this particular Government. As we stand here October 29, it is less than two months since the election.

As we stand here, it is only a few weeks since we heard the fine sounding phrases of the Conservative throne speech. It is hard to believe that just a few days ago we were hearing some very fine sounding speeches, particularly of the new Members of this House, full of optimism, hope and a general sense, I thought, that there might be some hope or some improvements in this Chamber, because as much as there is a lot that is good about the traditions of this House, there are times when things that do happen here are perhaps not in the best interests of the people of Manitoba and the process of good Government.

There was a watershed in this very Chamber, I thought, last Monday-last Monday, the speech of the Premier (Mr. Filmon) on the throne speech. Madam Deputy Speaker, for about 15 minutes, the Premier surprisingly took the high road, talked of his hopes of the next number of years, whatever number of years that may be for this Government's mandate, and his hopes for the province.

Some of us who have seen the Premier in this House thought that perhaps the Premier had been changed, that perhaps the high road of the election campaign where the Premier--and those of us who have seen the Premier in this House--I must admit, myself in particular-were shocked to see the Premier talking about the fact that he was not going to involved in a negative campaign--no personalities, well, except in Dauphin. We saw how much good that did in Dauphin, but all this fine sounding talk about no negative, no negative, no negative.

Then, Madam Deputy Speaker, the speech on the throne speech last Monday was interesting. It was interesting, because it was a throwback to Sterling Lyon. I cannot remember speeches like the Premier gave other than given by Sterling Lyon. I have sat in the House with Sterling Lyon. The Member for Selkirk, he sat in that very same chair. He usually appeared in the Chamber around budget time, heckled the Finance Minister. Every so often--this was after he was no longer Leader of the Opposition-would talk once again about the demons of socialism as he saw.

You know, Madam Deputy Speaker, what I found interesting, though, is that this Premier (Mr. Filmon) has gone further than Sterling Lyon. Sterling Lyon, to his credit, used to criticize those socialists, referring to the New Democratic Party, and I can tell you, if I had any doubt about whether I was a socialist or not, the Leader of the Opposition at that time and then later the Member for Charleswood, Sterling Lyon, certainly cured me of that, because I came to accept that term as a badge of honour after listening to his many wide-ranging attacks on socialism.

Even I believe Sterling Lyon could distinguish between the fine democratic socialist tradition, particularly in this province, that goes back many years. It has its roots in the north end of Winnipeg and roots in many areas of this province, and the red baiting of the Premier (Mr. Filmon), Madam Deputy Speaker, I just could not believe it. The Premier (Mr. Filmon) started with quoting the Member for Radisson (Ms. Carilli), but he never quoted exactly what the Member for Radisson was referring to.

The quote, not attributed, not some overwhelming statement about some political system, it was a quote that probably summed up what many people in this Chamber might have ascribed to themselves, even some Conservatives. From those -(interjection)- yes, it was such a terrible quote, was it not? Such a terrible quote: "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.· -(interjection)- Are there not Conservatives who might ascribe to that? Pardon me, I give them too much credit. They do not believe that there

511 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MJ!1NITOBA October 29, 1990 should be some role in society for those with the ability to have some concern for those in need. I was being charitable based on the speeches that I-but it is interesting the Premier (Mr. Filmon) did not quote from that. If anybody thought it was a slight of tongue they only had to listen to the remainder of the speech where the Premier talked repeatedly of socialist Government in eastern Europe. I think even the average junior high school student can distinguish between the systems in eastern Europe and the kind of philosophy espoused by the New Democratic Party. *

(2005) Let us talk about the democratic socialism of the New Democratic Party. Let us put it on the table. Which other countries have Governments with a similar philosophy to the New Democratic Party? Sweden has one of the highest growth rates, the best health systems, the best social systems in the world for more than 50 years, has had a social democratic Government in that country for much of that period of time. France has a socialist Government. According to recent statistics its growth rate is probably the highest in Europe. It is surpassing this year the growth rate in West Germany.

Look, Madam Deputy Speaker, at Spain, another socialist Government, which is one of the fastest growing economies in southern Europe. I could continue, but for the Premier (Mr. Filmon) in 1990 to stand in this Chamber and use the same sort of red scare tactics that we saw probably in the 1950s, that even Sterling Lyon did not stoop to use, I thought was absolutely despicable. What I found unnerving about this was that the Conservatives went out of here saying what a great speech. What a great speech, really? We talk about political integrity. How about intellectual integrity? The Premier (Mr.

Filmon) had the nerve to get up and blame the newly elected New Democratic Party Government for the $2.5 billion deficit in Ontario. -(interjection)- Listen, it is interesting we have a Liberal talking from behind about it being the NDP's fault. What a legacy left by the late great Liberal Government of Ontario, $2.5 billion. Not created by the New Democratic Party. Nobody believes that. Even the Member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux) does not believe that. Even, I am sure, many Conservatives did not believe that either.

Did the Premier really have to insult our intelligence to the degree that he did by suggesting it was created by the New Democratic Party in Ontario? Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, please; order, please. The Honourable Member for Thompson has the floor. I am having some difficulty hearing him. Perhaps those Members wishing to engage in private conversations would do so outside the Chamber. Mr. Ashton: Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am talking about the watershed that took place. I talked to one of our Members afterward, and this Member will remember the comment.

I thought it was an inten:1sting comment for Members on our side, becaus,:1 I sort of saw a bit of a watershed in attitudes those couple of days. There was a comment that the person indicated that kind of made them wonder why they ran for election to this place after hearing the Premier's speech with its attacks, lacking as they did I believe certainly in terms of intellectual integrity and certainly in terms of political integrity.

As we discussed later on, the reason that Member and other Members ran is to make sure that attitudes like that do not go unchallenged in this Chamber, Madam Deputy Speaker, that true alternatives are put forward. I want to indicate to the Premier (Mr. Filmon) and to other Members of the Conservative Party that they may feel they can get away with that in the Chamber in terms of their own caucus, people believe in that. Although I suspect there may be even some Members, particularly new Members, who walked out of this Chamber last Monday and wondered exactly what had unfolded.

If they think that is going to sell with the people of Manitoba th13y are dead wrong. People know what the agenda of the New Democratic Party is. We were very upfront in this past election. If there is anybody who was not as upfront, it is the Conservative Party and their agenda. I want to get into that tonight, their agenda, because we are beginning to see it mapped out in just the week that has happened since last Monday, the true agenda of the Conservative Party. The budget. Let us deal with the budget first and foremost in t,erms of the document itself.

I must have missed something in the last election, I think most Manitobans would. We remember the fine sounding phrases from the Premier about Manitoba being strong, no talk of mushrooming deficits or a

October 29, 1990 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 512 worsening economy. Certainly no talk of the fact that they were moving from an inherited surplus. They had a surplus when they came into office that they transferred into the Fiscal Stabilization Fund. They inherited a surplus. If it had not been for that transfer of funds to the Fiscal Stabilization Fund they would have ended up with a $380 million deficit this year. They ended up with $280 million on the books, still a substantial increase. •

(2010) They are talking $500 plus next year -(interjection)- no reference to that. I am not going to get into the deficit debate. I think to a certain extent an increase in the deficit is inevitable in any recession, and yes, we are into a recession. That is what I want to address as the next step. Finally the Government is admitting that we are in to a recession, the "r" word as it has been labelled in Ottawa. There is another "r" word in this document that they are finally recognizing or bringing forward as part of their policies, and that is "restraint"- An Honourable Member: Regressive. Mr.

Ashton: Well there are many other "r" words we could apply to the Conservatives, but they have finally, and this is in this last week, this is only a few days ago, said there is a recession and there is going to be restraint , tough restraint. We have seen, in the very words of the budget document, just how concerned people should be. I quote from the Finance Minister's statement: "The restrained revenue outlook means difficult choices will be required to protect vital services. We will have to trim internal Government spending and cut overhead and administration costs.

We will have to reduce funding in less essential areas. We will have to become more efficient in the delivery of important programs in health and education and family services and in protecting the environment." An Honourable Member: Something wrong with being efficient? Mr. Ashton: Well, well, well, the Minister of Energy and Mines (Mr. Neufeld) is speaking from his seat. If the Minister of Energy and Mines wishes to take the floor to further espouse his own agenda and the agenda of the Conservative Party I would be glad to sit down, provide leave, and then return to my comments afterward, Madam Deputy Speaker.

To the Minister of Energy and Mines, we know what Conservative Governments have meant when they have said "more efficient." You can translate "more efficient" as being cutbacks in services. If you do not want to go back to the Sterling Lyon Government, if you do not want to go back that far, just look at the federal Conservative Government. The same process has happened there. They talk the same sorts of terms. The bottom line is "more efficient" becomes cutbacks in services. I get very concerned, because there was no mention of this in the election.

I mean a few days before the election the Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard) announced the number of capital projects that we had been waiting on for a considerable period just before the election. I also understand that the Health Department just after the election was phoning around the province checking to see what capital programs might be cancelled, whether there would be any political ramifications of the capital programs being cancelled. I know one particular case where this phone call was most definitely made. It was indicated, yes, there would be political ramification.

Madam Deputy Speaker, "more efficient", promise something before the election and then afterwards try and stop it, freeze it, cut it back. That is what Conservative Governments have meant by that term. I ask if it is capital projects that we are seeing, what is going to happen in terms of operating funds? What are we talking about in terms of more efficient health and education programs? Are we talking about cutting back the community college system? Well that is what they have done in this budget. Is that bringing in more efficiency? What are we talking about in terms of health care? What is going to be cut?

What surgical wards will be closed? What waiting lists will be lengthened? What capital projects will not proceed? Family Services? How many more shelters are going to have to go cap in hand to the provincial Government to get a long-term funding arrangement? How many more of them are going to have to close while they are going cap in hand? Is that the Conservative vision of efficiency? Madam Deputy Speaker, in just these few days we are beginning to see that is the agenda. That is the agenda of this Government. •

(2015) Well, we move from the budget document last Thursday. One major step further, and it is no surprise really to Members of this House who know

513 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 29, 1990 the policies of the Conservative Party, but the Minister of Northern Affairs (Mr. Downey) on Thursday from his seat, Madam Deputy Speaker, when the Member for Flin Flon (Mr. Storie) was asking questions as to why this Government was cutting back programs in the North, he responded on it. It is recorded in Hansard, just because they do not know how to. Now it is not recorded beyond that.

Then the Minister of Northern Affairs, once the Member for Flin Flon raised the concern about the implied threat of whatthe Minister of Northern Affairs stood up and said on a point of order. He stated, I will make the comment very clear, that is unfortunate they do not know how to vote. I could not believe what I heard, not that the statement was surprising given what has been happening in the North, but for a Minister of the Crown, the Deputy Premier, to stand up in this House and suggest that because Northerners did not vote for this Government, that is a reason for the kind of cutbacks we are seeing.

I could not believe that, Madam Deputy Speaker, because in my constituency and I notice the Member for Brandon West (McCrae) made a very similar statement before. I accept that in his constituency he probably does the same thing, too, that he never asked people how they vote, how they voted before. I know in my constituency I never have. If someone walks in my door and they have a problem, I will go to bat for them. If I go door to door and visit people, I will visit people no matter how they voted. I have had people say what are you doing here? I voted Conservative.

I will say, but so long as I am going to represent you in the Legislature, I want to hear what your concerns are. I know Members on our side take that approach, but here we have the Deputy Premier, the Minister of Northern Affairs saying that because Northerners did not know how to vote that is why they are getting cut back. Madam Deputy Speaker, you know what one of my constituents said on the weekend? Boy I can tell you a lot of them responded to that comment. I had a lot of feedback from constituents. They said that is the politics of the 1950s. This is the 1990s.

That is unacceptable, and I want to know when the Premier is going to recognize that because what is almost as significant as what the Minister of Northern Affairs (Mr. Downey) said is what the Premier did not say. A flashback to the election-strong Manitoba, strong leadership. I do not know how many times we heard the word •strong" from the Premier, but when his Deputy Premier made that statement-but even the Premier knows it is fully unacceptable . Where was the strong response from the Premier? There was no response. He did not say that was unacceptable.

The Minister of Northern Affairs in here, to fumble around, I was surprised. The Member of this House has been in this House for quite some time not knowing the rules, but fumbling around, tryin{J to put some statement on the record in a totally inappropriate way. What people were looking for was a statement from the Premier that, no, that is wrong. That is not going to be the policy of this Government, that all Manitobans will be treated fairly. You know, it was Northerners on Thursday and Friday who were in the focus, but I wonder who else is going to be punished because they did not vote right.

An Honourable Member: Labour? Mr. Ashton: Labour? Well, I think that is a sure bet. We have seen they are going to try and ram through final offer selection in this Session. They are talking about a labour review, labour law review-the Chamber of Commerce agenda. Labour, working people, we are seeing right now what is happening in terms of public sector negotiations. They are quite happy to see people out walking the picket line to make an example of them. I talk here about the casino workers. We heard the Minister talk about how they do not get paid $18,000, they get paid $21,000 plus tips.

Well, I would like to see how many Members of this Legislature would like to survive on $21,000 plus tips for any length of time. Some of the most incredible comments I have heard, the most incredible comments. Well, the Minister of Energy and Mines (Mr.

Neufeld) says he could survive on that, and if makes any more statements like he did last Friday he probably will be surviving on that because he will not be surviving on a Cabinet pension, believe you me, Madam Deputy Speaker. -(interjection)- Do not worry, to the Minister of Energy and Mines, his comments will be up next so if he can just hold himself for a few moments I will finish with the statements made by the Minister of Northern Affairs (Mr. DowneJ,). *

(2020) Who else is on the chopping block? We know women did not vote for this Government in

October 29, 1990 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 514 anywhere near the same percentage as they did for other Parties. There is a gender gap that has grown in Manitoba politics and for good reasons, because the Government has not listened to the concerns of women. That is true. If you will look at the results of the last election, there is a growing gender gap in Manitoba politics. Are women 's programs going to be next on the chopping block? Are they? An Honourable Member: Yes, they probab ly are. Mr.

Ashton: The Minister of Energy and Mines if he had his way would certainly put them up there along with multicultural programs. Who else is on the list? People, Madam Deputy Speaker, in the inner city of Winnipeg, are they on the list? They did not vote right. The Member for Point Douglas (Mr. Hickes) had the lowest percentage of Conservative vote in the province. Is it any accident that the Winnipeg-and I commend him on that and the people of Point Douglas. The Member for Point Douglas, the Winnipeg Education Centre is located in his constituency. Is that going to be on the chopping block? It may very well be.

Who else is going to be impacted by them? The rural seats, Dauphin, Swan River, Interlake, Brandon East, are they going to be targeted? Who else in the City of Winnipeg if they did not vote right, are they going to be punished? I ask this question because the Premier by his silence on Thursday and Friday has led many people to believe-the real sin of the Deputy Premier was letting the cat out of the bag, the agenda out of the bag. The Conservatives often wonder why we in the New Democratic Party talk about hidden agendas. The comments of the Minister of Northern Affairs (Mr.

Downey), did he mention that in northern Manitoba when he went around trying to whip up the Conservative vote in northern Manitoba in the last election? Not once, not once did he mention that. He went around smiling and travelling around and talking about all the great things that he thought had been done in the North. What was the result? The Conservative vote dropped, dropped in my constituency, dropped in Flin Flon. It dropped, especially in remote communities, because people throughout the North just said, it just does not wash. That was the real sin of the Deputy Premier (Mr.

Downey), letting the cat out of the bag. Well, let us talk about Friday, because Friday was quite an eventful day. I am wondering if actually the Minister of Energy and Mines (Mr. Neufeld) was not goaded into giving his speech as a way to deflect from the criticism that the Minister of Northern Affairs (Mr. Downey) was receiving, diabolical strategy, and it sure worked, because the comments of the Minister of Northern Affairs were soon eclipsed by the Minister of Energy and Mines .

I sat here and I could not quite believe what I thought I heard when the Minister of Energy and Mines said he was against funding of cultural language programs. So, and it is recorded in Hansard, and I am not trying to take credit for this, it was just a natural question, "An Honourable Member:"-and it was myself-"Are you against all multicultural funding?" And what was the response of the Minister of Energy and Mines (Mr. Neufeld)? •1 am against multicultural funding, yes.

Yes, I am against multicultural funding," and it goes on to say "Multicultural funding ends up as-the WASPs, if you like, are funding everybody else." Madam Deputy Speaker, did you believe what you heard, and for those who were not present in the Chamber? What I found most distressing about this were some of the connotations that went with it. I want to say to the Minister that if he feels it is just a simple matter of espousing a personal opinion, ignoring any sort of Cabinet solidarity in making statements like that and then that is all forgiven, I think he seriously misjudges the people of Manitoba.

What really bothered me, Madam Deputy Speaker, was the context of the comments, and this is that the financing of cultural groups leads to splits in the country. This is another quote. "They expect Government--and Government is nobody else than the people, the people who pay the taxes-they expect the people that pay the taxes to pay for their cultural needs, for their language needs." Madam Deputy Speaker, who pays the taxes, who pays the taxes? It is people in those multicultural groups, the people of all ethnic backgrounds.

They are not asking for something more than they put in the society; what they are asking is not special treatment. They were asking for simple recognition of the multicultural fact of life in Manitoba. That is the real issue; that is the real problem with those statements. *

(2025) Once again, one Member of the House, a Minister, and what did the Premier (Mr. Film on) say? Did the Premier disown the comments of the Minister? Did the Premier say those comments were unacceptable? No, the Premier got up and waved

515 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 29, 1990 around a document and said: This is our policy on multiculturalism; it is right here; it is written down. Those of us in the House said: What about the statements of the Minister of Energy and Mines (Mr. Neufeld)? What about those statements? I believe, Madam Deputy Speaker, that there is a reason the Premier did not take the Member to task and that is perhaps that Member is not alone. I do not really believe that the Minister of Energy and Mines (Mr.

Neufeld) is strictly a one-person loose cannon in that caucus; I believe he speaks for other people in that caucus; and I believe thatthe Premier would rather not antagonize people in that caucus who are expressing that view. I want to say to the Minister, I hope he will reflect on those comments and I hope at some time he will withdraw them because I have talked to many people over the years about multiculturalism, what the bottom line is. I have had the opportunity to go to many Manitoba lntercultural Council meetings myself.

My wife was an active member, elected by representatives of the Thompson Multicultural Centre for many years. You know, all people are asking for is recognition in society, that you can have your own culture and be a good Canadian as well. There is nothing wrong with promoting heritage languages, nothing wrong with learning those languages. My own family, probably the main language at our house, is Greek. My wife is Greek; our children both speak Greek. They have even taught me Greek. What is wrong with that? What is wrong with providing a bit of support?

Does the Minister not know the type of support that is often available? A few classes in a church basement, a few classes in a cultural centre basement, a few hundred dollars. Does he not realize that is what is really at stake? Does he have difficulty with the other activities of the Manitoba lntercultural Council and other groups? We know this Government has taken away their right to disburse lottery funding directly to cultural groups. Is this all part of the same agenda? Is it a threat? Is it really this kind of division that we are into? This is the 1990s. I thought we passed that debate a long time ago.

I thought that we all recognized that the bottom line in this province is that this is a multicultural province. This is probably one of the clearest cases in the country of multiculturalism. There is no majority group in this province of ours. We are all minorities. We are all multicultural groups. We are all taxpayers, and all people in this province deserve some, support to preserve their cultures regardless of who they are, Madam Deputy Speaker, -(interjection)- and it is about time the Premier (Mr.

Filmon) had the courage to stand on his feet, turn around to his Ministers in his own caucus, and say those kind of comments are absolutely unacceptable. Until the Premier does that, those words will remain on the record, and many people in this province will wonder about the true intentions of this Conservative Government. Strong lead1Hship, is this strong leadership? What is going to be next? What cat is going to be let out of the bag ne):t? I really wonder, and really, who is in charge over there? Who is in charge? I recognize that the Premier is in a difficult position.

The Deputy Premier had an attempt a number of years ago to get rid of the current Premier as Leader of the Conservative Party, supported by the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Health. We remember those days well. We remember the then Leader of the Opposition, the current Premier, probably had more difficulty with heckling from his own Membern than he did from New Democratic Party Members. Well, Madam Deputy Speaker, the Premier wanted a mandate. He got a mandate if you can call it that. He got the majority.

We remember on election night, a Tory is a Tory is a Tory, a majority is a majority is a majority. *

(2030) Well, the bottom line is, he is the Premier now, and it is time to show leadership, not just as the Premier has done belatedly on federal-provincial issues, with the Prime Minister of Canada. We all know that opposing the Prime Minister on issues is not the most difficult task. There are certainly enough things to disagree with. What about his own Cabinet, his own caucus? What about the new Members of the Conservative Party? An Honourable Member: A fine group. Mr. Ashton: A fine group indeed, and do they want to be associated with the comments of the Minister of Northern Affairs (Mr.

Downey) that it depends on how you vote in this province as to whether you get support from the provincial Government? Do they want to be associated with the comments on multicultural funding? Pay equity, I did not even deal with pay equity. You do not believe in pay equity.

October 29, 1990 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 516 This is the Minister of Energy and Mines: "I do not believe that you can go into a business and say this job is worth as much as this job." That is what pay equity is all about. He disagrees with pay equity. Once again, it does not surprise Members on this side of the House because even though the official position of the Conservative Party was to support pay equity when it was passed through in this Legislature, we all know that there were people who were opposed to it. I even remember the Member for Brandon West (Mr.

Mccrae) with some of his comments about pay equity leading to pay equity police-pay equity police. I remember them well. An Honourable Member: He should read his old speeches. Mr. Ashton: Perhaps he should read some of those old speeches-I agree with the Member for Dauphin (Mr. Plohman)--and recall some of the statements. How can we have any sort of faith in the commitment of this Government to pay equity when the Premier (Mr. Film on) once again got up and said, well, the position of this Government is perfectly clear on pay equity. Is it? Which position? Which Minister? Which policy statement?

Thursday's statement, Friday's statement, Monday's statement-which statement are we supposed to believe? The Premier is saying, yes, this is the policy-or the Minister of Energy and Mines (Mr. Neufeld), whether it be on multiculturalism or any other issue. The Minister of Highways and Transportation (Mr. Driedger), I asked the Minister, do you associate yourself with the comments made about multiculturalism?

I look forward to your contributions on the agenda. -(interjection)- The Tories are saying they are with their friends, and I will be interested to see how it breaks down over the next number of years as to who is friends with whom. I think it should be a higher calling than that, to the Minister of Highways and Transportation. I know the Minister has friends on both sides of the issues. We see that daily in Question Period.

I want to ask the Conservatives to rethink this week-it has only been a week-to rethink the approach of the Premier last Monday, to rethink the approach of the budget on Thursday, and to most definitely rethink the statements made by the Ministers I referred to just these last few days. I say this and I must admit I am being rhetorical because I do not expect them to rethink. It was interesting, we heard some comments about the Premier's definition of socialism. I would like to actually remind Members of this House, and I have used this quotation before because it seems that the Premier (Mr.

Filmon), this must be his guiding light in terms of quotations. This is from Stephen Leacock from 1909--it shows you just how little things have changed: Failing principles, the Conservatives fell back on personalities. The Premier wants to talk about quotes; I think he must have this etched on his door, probably behind the door in the Premier's office. An Honourable Member: Right beside that picture of Brian Mulroney. Mr. Ashton: Right beside the picture of Brian Mulroney, that is right. There is more to politics than what we have seen.

I actually do respect those who have a conservative philosophy and express it. It may be different from mine. I respect that, Madam Deputy Speaker. I do not believe that requires someone to stoop to some of the things that we have seen in the Legislature or some of the characterizations.

I would hope that the Conservatives, even a few perhaps of the new Members who have more of an opportunity to break from the front benches on this issue, those that have perhaps been steeped in the last number of years in some of the vitriol we have seen in the Chamber at times, and we have had some heated debates in recent years-I would hope they would recognize what we in the New Democratic Party are speaking for, not caricatures, as the Premier (Mr. Filmon) talked about. I just want in the few remaining minutes that I have left to tell them what we are here for.

I want to read a quotation they may wish to consult in terms of why many of us would consider ourselves democratic socialists. J. S.

Woodsworth in 1924: I am not afraid of the word "socialism" which comes from a perfectly good Latin word which means "comradeship," which means that today we as individuals are no longer living isolated lives, that no nation is any longer living an isolated life, but rather that we are living in a society in a thousand and one complicated relationships and that we must adapt our political ideals and our political institutions and our political policies to meet the new situation it comprises. That is what drives New Democrats.

That is what we mean when we talk about socialism-1924, it could have been written in 1990. It could have

517 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 29, 1990 applied to these unsettled times that we live in. It could equally apply today. Yes, we do speak of various things at times. I know that sometimes Conservatives have some difficulty understanding that, and they respond once again, unfortunately, as the Premier (Mr. Film on) did with the usual characterizations-ah well, but they have not met a payroll. As if one has to meet a payroll to be qualified to sit in this Legislature.

You know there have been Members on this side who have met a payroll; and there have been Members on this side who have been on a payroll; and there have been Members on this side who have not been on a payroll, who have been unemployed and understand what that is like; and there are people on this side of the House who know what it is like to go through some of the problems that people are going through, like paying the bills. They know what it is like in terms of family separation and that is why they say co-operation is the key. I respect the right of Conservatives to express their philosophy.

I ask one thing in return, the same sort of respect in return. I say to the Conservatives, do you really want to continue with the Premier's approach, the red baiting? Do you really want to continue with this hidden agenda approach, that you say one thing before an election and do another thing after an election, the John Crosbie approach to politics? Do you really want that in such a cynical time that we live in, when people are so cynical of politics and politicians. Do you really want to stand idly by and hear people say, how you vote determines how you do in terms of the budget process?

Do you really want to stand by and see us get into divisions about one group and another group in terms of multiculturalism or about pay equity, as if it were such a dastardly thing to expect that we should have arrangements that end up with women getting more than 68 percent of the wages of men? Is there not a better way? *

(2040) I say, Madam Deputy Speaker, there is a better way. There are a lot of things that need to be done in the next number of years but this type of old-fashioned politics, the 1950s approach to politics just will not wash in Manitoba any more. It certainly will not wash for the new-generation voters, and that is why I find it most ironic when the Premier spends so much time criticizing our youngest Member, the Member for Radisson (Ms. Carilli). You know, there are others who have grown cynical of it as well. If this Government thinks that it can trot out this same old tired approach, I can indicate to it.

I can indicate to it the bottom line is the people of Manitoba will see through that. They will see that the real alternative to this Government is in the words of Sterling Lyon, those socialists, the New Democratic Party. Those socialists who talk about co-operation, about working together , about improving our health systems, our social systems, by working together not dividing. Madam Deputy Speaker, I look forward to this kind of debate in the next number of years. I really know that the people of Manitoba are going to select the NOP option and not the Conservative option. Hon.

Bonnie Mltchelson (Minister of Culture, Heritage and Recreation): I know that the Member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton) is somewhat very much a difficult act to follow, but I will attempt to stick to the high road in my remarks, Madam Deputy Speaker, unlike the Member for Thompson who seems to tal{e great delight in being extremely critical. I do want to congratulate you on your appointment as Deputy Speaker, and I would like to also congratulate our Speaker on being reappointed to the highest office in this House.

Given I did not have the opportunity to speak on the throne speech, I should make some very preliminary comments. I do, Madam Deputy Speaker, want to congratulate all new Members on all sides of the House who have been elected to this Legislature and wish them well. The first few years are very tough years. They are learning years and I do know that all of you with a bit of coaching, I suppose, and a lot of hard work will come to understand the process in this House.

I want to congratulate too all those Members who are back for a second, and a third, and a fourth, and up to an eighth time in this Legislature and wish them well. Just from the first couple of weeks of goings-on in this House, I do know that the debate is going to b13 quite colourful and entertaining. We have views from the extreme, extreme, extreme, extreme left to the right and different points of view that do add to the so-called quality of debate. I want to say that the first indication of the talent that has been shown on this side of the House is in the new Members who have been elected.

The Mover of the throne speech, the Member for Fort Garry (Mrs. Vodrey), and the Seconder of the throne speech, the Member for Turtle Mountain (Mr. Rose),

October 29, 1990 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 518 an urban and a rural perspective on life in this province and what all different areas of the province do have to contribute. I know that the other Members who are new on our side of the House made very quality speeches that did take the high road and did look very specifically at what their constituencies and what their constituents had to offer to this province and their hopes and aspirations of being able to serve those constituents to the best of their ability. I do want to commend them.

I also want to just make mention of my colleagues from the Class of '86. There are nine of us still here in the Legislature today. I looked around and started to count and originally I could only find eight and then I realized of course that the Speaker was from the Class of '86, too. There are nine of us left and the other two who are not here today, both of their own choosing, decided not to run, the former Member for Steinbach and that Member from-the one that seems somewhat forgettable and yet unforgettable. He left us a little earlier than the election of 1990.

I do want to say, Madam Deputy Speaker, that I suppose the success of the nine Members who are left from the Class of '86, and also those who were elected in 1988, owe their successes in no small part due to the advice that was so ably given to us by those colleagues of ours who were here before us even. Let me just mention of course the Member for Lakeside (Mr. Enns), the Member for Arthur-Virden (Mr. Downey), the Member for Pembina (Mr. Orchard), the Member for Morris (Mr. Manness), and the Member for Steinbach (Mr.

Driedger) who all, very ably-I do have to say and I should say to all of those who are new Members in this Legislature that it is important to have-we sat in Opposition for two years after I was elected and I do want to say that those of my colleagues who had been here before were nothing but helpful. They helped us and guided us through those first two years, taught us the ropes. I am hoping that those who are in Opposition who were newly elected this time around will take some of the advice from some of their more senior colleagues.

It is not easy to be in Opposition, I must say, because it is your role to be critical, but I would caution you that on occasion there is a Government that does do something right in your minds, I am sure, for some reason. If I could give you a bit of advice, I think I would say to you that if you do feel, on the very odd occasion, that we are doing something right, maybe it would not be a bad idea just to let the public know that there are some good things that do happen, even though you are in Opposition.

I do want to talk, Madam Deputy Speaker, just a wee bit about our Premier and the Filmon team in this last election campaign. We went through some tough times as a minority Government and there were some tough struggles, but I do know that deep in our hearts we really did want to do what was right for the right reasons. Obviously, after two and a half years of a minority Government, the people of Manitoba did express their confidence in our ability to govern, and to govern well, and to do the right things for the right reasons.

Madam Deputy Speaker, that is why we are here in a majority situation in the Province of Manitoba today, and it is in no small part due to the leadership and the ability of our Premier (Mr. Filmon) to guide us through those two years of a minority Government, or two and a half years. Madam Deputy Speaker, I just want to talk for a bit about the constituents of River East who elected me for the third time in just four short years, and I will say that I have to give all of my thanks to those people that worked so very hard in three different election campaigns in four years.

There are not many of us who have to justify, or many people in society that have to justify their activities and their abilities as often as politicians do, especially in the last number of years because there have been a lot of election campaigns. I do want to say that the support has been there, and no candidate can do it on his or her own. You have to have the support of the community and workers behind you 100 percent to make it happen.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I might just regress a little bit and talk about my very first election campaign back in 1986 when I was nominated after the writ had been dropped and there were only four short weeks left in the campaign. It was an overnight decision to run, and once I was nominated, quite frankly, I really did not know why I was there or what I was going to do. It was the middle of February, minus 40 degrees, and there were many, many people that joined our team and worked very hard in that campaign in River East.

I do want to say, Madam Deputy Speaker, that you were one of the people that was very instrumental in getting me elected, and I will never forget that, walking into my campaign with a completely unknown candidate

519 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 29, 1990 and making the right things happen at the right time. I will never forget how indebted I am to you, and to the workers that worked, that gave me my first start, and I will tell you right now that I would not give this profession up willingly because I am thoroughly enjoying everything that I am doing every minute of everyday. *

(2050) Let me talk just a little bit about what has happened in River East constituency and probably why there has been a fair expression of confidence in our Party in that area of the city. Of course, the first thing that I want to talk to, about the most recent accomplishment, was the completion of the Kildonan Bridge. Madam Deputy Speaker, I was very pleased to be there representing our Government the day the bridge was opened.

There were people from all levels of Government, and I know that we cannot take completely full credit because I believe the people in the northeast quadrant of the City of Winnipeg indicated major support for that major thoroughfare going through I do know that the Leader of the Opposition Party (Mr. Doer) was instrumental in working quite hard, along with all other levels of Government, to make that happen and to get that bridge under way. Madam Deputy Speaker, I know that the residents of the northeast quadrant of Winnipeg are going to benefit greatly by having that bridge in place and open now.

I will tell you on the Friday afternoon when I drove home-it was just after dark when I left the Legislature and drove home that Friday night, the first day it was open-as I drove by and saw the car lights coming across the bridge, it gave me a major sense of satisfaction to know that our people in the northeast quadrant would have an alternative route to travel downtown and into the north and west areas of the city. Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to talk a little bit about the completion of the Perimeter Highway.

Back in 1986 when I first ran, I talked about the Perimeter Highway and that six or seven short miles of Perimeter Highway that has never been completed in 20 years. I am sure it is over 20 years now since the Perimeter Highway was started. It was completed all the way around the city except for that short six miles or so that serves my quadrant of the city. I am really pleased to say that the Minister of Highways (Mr. Driedger) has finally, under our administration, gotten things under way.

We are now hiring a consultant to do the design work on the Perimeter Highway, and things will be under way in a few short years. So I am pleased to say that our Government has made that commitment, and we will see it through to accomplishment. I want to talk: a little bit about Concordia Hospital, the hospital that serves our quadrant of the city also. The history of Concordia Hospital is not one that any of us in this House should be proud of, especially not the New Democratic administration, because it was -(interjection)- Oh, yes, the Leader of the Opposition (Mr.

Doer) says that the New Democratic Party built Concordia Hospital, but they built it half the size of what was originally intended. Madam Deputy Speaker, 132 beds, the smallest community hospital in the City of Winnipeg, and it serves the largest population for a community hospital. Under the Lyon administration, the Conservative Party made a commitment to increase the size of that hospital, tel double the size of the hospital, and what happened in 1982?-the NOP Government cut it back again. They said no increase in beds for Concordia Hospital. It has continue~ Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh!

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, please; order, please. I am E1xperiencing some difficulty hearing the Honourable Minister of Culture and Recreation. Mrs. Mltchelson: Madam Deputy Speaker, it continued at 132 beds, and I had first-hand experience. I worked at Concordia Hospital as a nurse for some six years, and I do know that Concordia Hm1pital was much too small for the size of the area that it served, and it is today, too.

It took a Conservative Government and a Conservative Health Minister to eventually approve, just this last year, 60 new chronic care beds for our hospital to serve our quadrant of the City of Winnipeg. It has been a long time overdue, and the people that Concordia serves will know that it was under a Conservative administration, under a caring administration, that that hospital was increased in size. Along with the expansion at Concordia Hospital there has been a proposal call for 230 new personal care home beds in our area of the city.

I know that that assessment and analysis was made, and it was quite well documented that under an NOP administration our part of the city was underserviced with personal care home beds. I am pleased to say

October 29, 1990 LEGIS LATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITO BA 520 that finally we have a proposal call, and we will be getting enough personal care home beds to serve the seniors in our community that so badly need that care. Madam Deputy Speaker , we just had some seniors' housing approved right in my constituency, and we are going to have new seniors' housing for those people in our area that grew up in East Kildonan-North Kildonan and want to stay in that area of the city. I do want to say that it was under our Government that that seniors' housing was approved.

We have in River East constituency and in River East School Division quality schools and a quality education program. We have beautiful parks. We have walkways right from the Red River down to Gateway where we can walk along the river through Bunn's Creek Park and all the way down to Raleigh to Gateway Road, and we have very positive, pleasant green space-something that I am very proud of. We have Gateway Community Centre in my constituency, which is growing and thriving. It has some 800 families that have memberships to Gateway Community Centre, one of which, of course , is our family.

My son plays hockey out of that community centre. It is one of the most growing and most promising community centres. I suppose the most positive aspect of River East constituency is the people. As I knocked door to door during this last election campaign, I was very proud of the people that I met that came to the door, and many young people, Madam Deputy Speaker, who were voting for the first time. To my great surprise, I found that a lot of them indicated that they were voting Conservative, and I truly believe they did, because the Conservative vote was fairly considerable in that area of the city.

These were new, young voters who had their heads screwed on right. They knew where they were coming from. They knew where they were going, and they knew how to vote for the first time. I believe that they will continue to vote for our Government. You know, I guess the main issues and main concerns that I found at the door-I think most of us did-were taxes. That was one major issue. I was pleased to be able to tell them that we were the only Government across Canada that had reduced personal income taxes and that we were committed to keeping personal income taxes down.

The other issue that came up fairly regularly at the door was family values, Madam Deputy Speaker. I have a community that puts a lot of emphasis on family values . I know that I was very pleased also to be able to tell them about the video classification system that we are going to be putting in place in this province . It will be up and running by the beginning of January. It will allow parents to walk into a video store and just look at the video cases and be able to tell what types of videos they should rent to take home for family viewing.

Also with that classification system, we will have videos stickered in the stores and children under the age of 18 will not be allowed to rent, to take out videos that are of a restricted or of an X-rated nature. So I think that was a positive announcement to make, especially to the constituents in River East constituency. I know that a lot of families throughout the Province of Manitoba will be pleased to see that system up and running.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to speak a little bit about my portfolio and what has happened in the Department of Culture, Heritage and Recreation over the last two and a half years. We have made major advancements. A lot of good things have happened. I have to say that not everything has been accomplished as yet, but I hope to have a few new initiatives in place to announce within the next few months. Let me talk about what has happened in the last two and a half years. We made a commitment-I am trying to think of, I guess it was in our second throne speech-to do an arts policy review.

That review, Madam Deputy Speaker, has been completed. I am pleased to announce that we have accepted some of the recommendations to implement immediately. Some will be a little longer term implementing. We have committed to the development of an arts Act in the Province of Manitoba which is a very positive thing for the arts commun ity. We have committed to establishment of a working group on arts education. That is up and running already between the Department of Culture, Heritage and Recreation and the Department of Education . We are going to be establishing an Arts Branch within my department.

We are going to redefine the roles and responsibilities of the department and the Manitoba Arts Council, and we are going to simplify the funding process for rural

521 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 29, 1990 and northern community arts councils. That will be a positive step in the right direction for those smaller arts councils throughout rural and northern Manitoba. We would like to tell you, the Member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton), that we will simplify the funding process for those councils. *

(2100) Madam Deputy Speaker, we had somewhat a disappointment when the federal Government decided to pull out of cultural industries. Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): The federal Conservative Government? Mrs. Mltchelson: The Leader of the Opposition says the federal Conservative Government, and to my dismay, yes, the federal Conservative Government has not renewed any cost-shared agreements. We do know that we have a very vibrant film, sound recording, and book publishing industry here in the Province of Manitoba. They contribute greatly to the economic climate here in the Province of Manitoba.

I am pleased to announce, Madam Deputy Speaker, that we have made our commitment to continue funding cultural industries through the province, even though the federal Government is not going to commit their fair share. I am not saying that I am giving up working on the federal Government, but I am saying that we in this province, we as a Conservative Government, recognize the value of our cultural industries. We are in for the long haul, even though the federal Government may not be there beside us.

Madam Deputy Speaker, there has been much conversation, especially today, over our multicultural policy for the Province of Manitoba. I would like the Members opposite to listen very, very carefully to what I am about to say, because I believe that our Government's view of multiculturalism in this province is one that we should all be proud of, no matter which side of the Legislature we sit, no matter which background we come from. I want to quote directly from the policy, even though the Member for Kildonan (Mr.

Chomiak) made some comments in the paper a couple of weeks ago that somewhat questioned exactly where he was-I am sorry, the Member for The Maples (Mr. Cheema) made some comments in the newspaper, and I wish I had the paper here to quote what he did say. I think he might be enlightened or a little educated by just listening very carefully to our Government's policy for a multicultural society that was introduced just last May.

I do want to indicate that when we released the policy, we had some 600 or 700 members of the multicultural community who came to a rec:eption right here in the Legislative Building, and there was not a person in the room who felt that we were not on the right track and moving in the right direction. It is the first multicultural policy that has ever been formalized and released in over 120 years in the history of the Province of Manitoba-something that the NOP Government could not do in the last six years of their administration.

Just let me quote -(interjection)- and I would hope that the Member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton) would listen very carefully to what our policy for a multicultural society says, and I quote: Manitoba is a multicultural society. Now, I do not believe that the Member for Thompson could argue that point.

It says: The Government of Manitoba believes that a multicultural s;ociety is not a collection of many separate sociE,ties divided by language and culture; rather, Manitoba is a single society united by shared laws, aspirations and responsibilities within which persons of various backgrounds have the freedom and opportunity to express and foster their cultural heritage , and the freedom and opportunity to participate in the broader life of society, and the responsibility to abide by and contribute to the laws and aspirations that unite society.

This ideal of a multicultural society affects all parts of the community and speaks directly to Manitoba's determination to meet the challenge of living together in harmony and equality. Now, I would hope to hear some applause from the other side of the House, because I believe, or I hope at least that they would believe that is the type of society we as a Manitoba society are. The three fundamental principles of that policy-I have read this so very often that it has become a part of my life, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I believe very strongly in the principles of this policy.

I believe that if every Member of the House took that same attitude and really thought about promoting pride in our Province of Manitoba--and I am proud to be a Manitoban-1 would hope that all of us in this House take very much pride in the province that we have and in what we have to contribute to our country and to society in general. If everyone would think a little bit more about what wo can give, not about what we can take, then we would be a much better society.

October 29, 1990 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 522 I use the story, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I want to put it into the record because I spoke to one very wise old man who had been married for 50 years. He had a very, very successful marriage and he was giving me a few wise words of wisdom, probably words that I need to attempt to heed a little more often than I do. He said to me, do you know what has made our marriage so successful? He says, you know you often hear that if you give 50-50 you will have a successful relationship, and he said, I will tell you what happened in our relationship.

I gave 60 percent and she gave 60 percent and when each side gives that extra little bit and makes that extra special little effort, then you are going to have a good relationship. I think all of you should take note of that, and maybe I will remind you of that. Probably I need to be reminded of that once in a while, too, Madam Deputy Speaker, but I think they are words for all of us to think about very carefully. I know that we, as a Government, are willing to give that 60 percent and I would hope that sometimes the Opposition might think a little bit more about giving a little more.

I really believe that if everyone in our society gave that extra little bit we would have a much better society in which to live. So think about that, think about -(interjection) Madam Deputy Speaker, I can only speak from my heart and say what I really feel.

Others may choose to attempt to ignore what I am saying but I think every once in a while it may just come back, it may sneak into your mind when you are lying in bed trying to get to sleep at night and thinking very positively about Government on this side of the House and where we are coming from and what we are doing, you might just remember that comment I made and if you really made that extra special little effort you just might find yourselves just that little bit easier to live with.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I have talked about the arts policy, I have talked about cultural industries, I have talked about our multicultural policy, I want to just briefly touch on recreation in the Province of Manitoba. For all of those that are new here in the Legislature, the recreation part of my portfolio deals most with rural and remote northern Manitoba and I am very pleased to indicate that we announced early last year a two-year program that would put $500,000 into northern and remote Manitoba-for the Member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton)--for a Recreation Directors Pilot Program.

Under six years of NDP administration the North was starved for recreation initiatives and I am very pleased that we, as a Government, were able to provide half a million dollars over two years to hire recreation directors to deal with the specific concerns in remote northern Manitoba. *

(2110) I am also pleased, I just got back from Brandon on Saturday and was at a recreation conference on Saturday evening and was able to hand out application forms, hot off the press, for the Recreation Innovation Fund that is putting $1.8 million into rural, remote and northern Manitoba for innovative recreation projects throughout that part of our province.

I want to tell you there were over 200 delegates at the dinner on Saturday evening and the comments are very positive about the program and I think that we deserve much credit on this side of the House for trying to stimulate recreation throughout the Province of Manitoba. So, Madam Deputy Speaker, those are just a few of the things that have happened in my department over the last two and a half years and I do know that there are going to be many more things to come. I want to talk a little bit about Lottery accountability, too.

Through the Needs Assessment we managed to sign new agreements with all of the umbrella groups. That is going to make Lotteries dollars somewhat more accountable to the general public which they are about to serve and, hopefully, that money will get out in a more timely fashion to the grassroots community that really does deserve the benefits of Lottery revenue.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I should talk just a bit about my new responsibility as the Minister responsible for the Status of Women and it is going to be a new challenge and I do know that my female colleagues on this side of the House have been nothing but supportive in our endeavour to try to improve things for women in our province.

We can stand on our record as a Government over the last two and a half years and I want to say to you that the advances that we have made on women's issues can be very much attributed to my former colleague, the Honourable Gerrie Hammond, the Minister responsible for Labour, and for the Status of Women. I do know that through the Women's Initiative and then following that as the Minister responsible for the Status of Women, we have made great advances.

523 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 29, 1990 I would just like to talk a bit about some of the positive accomplishments that have happened in our last two and a half years. Our Government, under the leadership of Gary Filmon, has taken a strong stand on violence against women and has made strengthening measures to protect and support victims of family violence a priority. I have heard criticism from across the way.

I do want to say that too often since I have become Minister responsible I have attended vigils on the front of the Legislature when there has been violence against women, but it has also given me the opportunity to speak to some of the women who are out there attending those vigils. I want to tell you that women have come up to me unsolicited and have said to me, I am glad that there is finally a Government in place that acts instead of talks. Quite frankly, they said, we have received words and rhetoric from the former administration but we received no money.

Let me tell you, I am not making the vigils a partisan issue. I am making the comments that were given to me a partisan issue because day after day after day in this House we hear the rhetoric from the New Democratic Party that we are doing absolutely nothing. Let me tell you, Madam Deputy Speaker, when the NDP administration was in Government, when they were in Government I want to tell you what the per diems were in the shelters throughout the Province of Manitoba-let me tell you, $13.80 per woman and $6.90 per child .

Under our administration those per diems were increased to $45 per day per woman and per child. Madam Deputy Speaker, let the record show what we had to do to attempt to look after the women and children in the Province of Manitoba. I will not apologize for those increases. I wish some of the new colleagues on the NDP side of the House would talk to the former Minister responsible for the Status of Women, the Member for St. Johns (Ms. Wasylycia-Leis), and find out why on earth she could not get her Cabinet colleagues to increase the per diems for women and children in the Province of Manitoba.

They starved them and now they are saying that we are not doing enough. Madam Deputy Speaker, maybe we have not done enough yet, but we are moving in the right direction and we moved much further than they did. When they were in Government there were three wife abuse :shelters throughout the Province of Manitoba. That is a shameful situation. We now, in just two and a half short years, have 11 wife abuse shelters throughout the Province of Manitoba. We have increased funding by 47 percent in just two short years. I will tell you that I am not ashamed of that record.

It was a shameful record that we had under the former NDP administration. Madam DE1puty Speaker, it is no wonder Some Hono1L1rable Members: Oh, ohl Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, please; order, please. Tho Honourable Minister of Culture, Heritage and Recreation is attempting to conclude her remarks .. There are two minutes remaining. I would appreciate the support of the House. Mrs. Mltchelson: Madam Deputy Speaker, I am not ashamed of our record as a Progressive Conservativo Government over the last two and a half years for support for women in the Province of Manitoba.

I am ashamed of what we were left to deal with when we became Government. So let the record show and let the record be clear that we have a Government that is on the right track and we are attempting to do the right things for the right reasons. I do know that the people of Manitoba expressed their confidence in us, because we had been on the right track in the last two and a half years and we will continue to serve the people of Manitoba to the' best of our albility, as I said, for the right reasons, for the next four to five years. Thank you. Mr.

Kevin L.amoureux (Inkster): Madam Deputy Speaker, during the Throne Speech Debate I was not able to get the comments that I was wanting to in regard to oducation so later on in my speech I will be referring to the education as a follow-up to my throne speech. Madam Deputy Speaker, we had the amendments moved by the Leader of the Third Party last Thursday to the Budget Debate -(interjection)- with the Minister of Health's (Mr. Orchard) permission to go for it, I will attempt at doing just that.

Madam Deputy Speaker, the Leader of the Third Party introduced an amendment that dealt with ten shortcomings of the current Government's budget. My intentions are to go through it. -(interjection)- The Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) seems to want to get in and it will be very interesting to see what the New Democrats have to say about this amendment.

October 29, 1990 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 524 I believe, Madam Deputy Speaker, when the Member for River Heights (Mrs. Carstairs) moved the amendment, you would not believe how upset the Leader of the New Democratic Party was, shocked and surprised that the Liberal Party would introduce an amendment to the budget. One would lean to believe in fact that they intend to support the budget and we will find out if they will be supporting the budget, if they will be supporting our amendments.

I will go through the amendments and the Leader of the Third Party can feel free to add in on the things that he feels that he cannot support -(interjection) Madam Deputy Speaker, I should correct myself, the Leader of the offical Opposition or the New Democratic Party, and to go over the amendments, starting from number one, we regret that the Government has failed to portray accurately and clearly the financial affairs of the province. This is very easily seen when we look at the so-called Fiscal Stabilization Fund. *

(2120) The Fiscal Stabilization Fund is something that was created, not because of good Tory management; it was created more so out of luck. What we had in the current Premier, then Opposition, was saying that the Minister of Finance, ~ugene Kostyra, was taking the largest tax grab in Manitoba history and he benefited in that sense from that tax grab because he did not do anything about it. -(interjection)- Last time I looked I thought the Liberal Party was in first. -(interjection)- That is right.

I know it can be depressing for the Leader of the New Democratic Party, and I can understand why because people seem never to vote New Democrat when the federal election comes around and hopefully that will never change. Anyway, attempting to get back to the Fiscal Stabilization Fund, and I can understand why the New Democrats do not want me to talk about it, because they do not know where they lie on the issue. When the Government introduced the Fiscal Stabilization Fund, the New Democratic Leader (Mr. Doer) stood up in the House and said that it was a fund that was necessary.

I can understand why he said that, because he was one of the authors of the Jobs Fund. Now, Madam Deputy Speaker, we have the New Democrats saying, well, the Fiscal Stabilization Fund was not as good as maybe we thought it was, because of the artwork that the current Government is able to do with it. Madam Deputy Speaker, let us get back to the Fiscal Stabilization Fund and how it was created. We had an increase in equalization payments that allowed the Government to have once again excess funds.

We had the lnco and the increases from lnco and the taxes on the mines up North which unfortunately never see any of that money being returned to the North. So it is not a question of good management that in the first place they were able to create this Fiscal Stabilization Fund, it was one of more good luck. Madam Deputy Speaker, one has to ask, what did they do with the Fiscal Stabilization Fund?

The Government, for the first time, since the last Liberal Government, could have had a surplus budget, but rather than having a surplus budget the Government decided in its own wisdom to borrow money and create a fund. I can understand why they did this; they did not want to show a surplus in the second year of their mandate. This is how they have been able to deceive. The Attorney General hedges on the word "deceive"-and mislead, will he buy "mislead"? That is a bit unparliamentary, too. Okay, twisting the facts should be acceptable. The Minister of Health says it is acceptable, so it has to be acceptable.

Madam Deputy Speaker, what have they done with the Fiscal Stabilization? Instead of trying to say how it is they have used $100 million out of the Fiscal Stabilization Fund in order to bring down the current deficit, instead of having a $383 million, they are bringing it down to $283 million. That is what we were saying when we were the official Opposition, why they brought in the Fiscal Stabilization Fund. It was not to bank them during rough times or anything of that nature, it was to soften their budgets in the future when it came to predicting the deficit.

Why would you want to borrow money in order to create a fund? At a later time you are going to be withdrawing from that fund to put on to the deficit in order to bring it down from $383 million to $283 million. What it is, it is somewhat fudging with the numbers. Point of Order Madam Deputy Speaker: The Honourable Minister of Justice, on a point of order. Hon. James Mccrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney General: Madam Deputy Speaker, I have sat patiently listening to this diatribe from the

525 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 29, 1990 Honourable Member from Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux) and when he used the words "mislead" and "deceived," there was some measure of concern on my part. Then he talked about twisting facts, and in the spirit of allowing free debate I sat silently . But now he has talked about softening budgets and fudging and, Madam Deputy Speaker, I think the honourable gentleman has gone quite far enough when he gets talking about fudging at this point.

My goodness, we can only take so much, and when you get to fudging and compare that to "deceive" and "mislead," we just have to call a halt at some point. Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Deputy Speaker, I do not believe it is in the list, but I can understand why the Attorney General would be somewhat sensitive. If he personally feels that I have offended him, I will be more than happy to withdraw any of those remarks that he felt were a bit too close to the heart. -(interjection)- Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, please; order, please.

I would like to thank the Honourable Member for Inkster for his retraction, and I would appreciate giving the Honourable Member the opportunity to continue his debate. • • • Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Deputy Speaker, I was commenting on how the Government is able to work its numbers-I hope that is not unparliamentary. What we need to look at is, the Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness) talks about the increase in the retail sales tax, and he refers to a 4.5 percent increase. What have we actually seen?

When the Government presents its budget and you take a look at its revenues you do not see that 4.5 percent increase in revenue, so one has to start questioning, where are we getting the numbers and the statistics and the figures that the Minister of Finance, after all, is the one that is telling us, a bit contradictory in his own statements. I think this is what we are really trying to mean in the first one of the 1 0 things that we have suggested in terms of the amendment to the budget. *

(2130) Two, we regret that the Government has ignored the need for a Manitoba labour adjustment strategy in the wake of a free trade deal. Madam Deputy Speaker, thinking in terms of having your head in the sand, one has to take a look at the de Grandpre Report. After all that particular report was a federal ConservativE, report. And you take a look at the title of the report and what the report itself was titled as Adjusting to Win. This Government has not even recognized some of the facts that their Tory cousins in Ottawa are telling them, that you have to start adjusting to the free trade deal.

We do not see that; we do not see any strategy coming from this Government. Number 3, they fail to see the real impact of the Mulroney-RE1agan free trade deal on the Manitoba economy, and accordingly on the Manitoba work force. We have seen plant closures and many of my colleagues and Members of the New Democratic Party have stood up in the Chamber and have commented on the large number of plant closures as a direct result of the free trade deal, but once again we do not have any recognition from this Governmen t that the free trade deal has any impact on the Province of Manitoba .

We do not see that inside their budgets, and the Minister of Industry and Trade (Mr. E:rnst) said in fact that we had a billion dollar surplus. Once again, you have to start questionin{J where they come up with these numbers, but being the gentleman that the Minister is, he did stand up and correct himself . If we look at number 4, we failed to address the need of skilled workers. We have many skilled workers in the Province of Manitoba who do not receive the recognition that they should be receiving. I am referring in large part to many people who have immigrated to Canada and have chosen Manitoba as their home.

These are people, Madam Deputy Speaker, who have gone to school, have received post-secondary education, have on-hand experience whether it is through work or some educational aspect that when they come here there is no recognition given to the credentials that they had acquired previous to coming to Canada and that in my opinion and in the opinion of so many, Madam Deputy Speaker, is irresponsible. We have to start recognizing the fact that there are skills that we do have in Manitoba that are not being utilized.

We have to recognize the importance of ensuring that those skills are taught to our young people, and skills that the young people in the Province of Manitoba will be able to use within the province, so that we do not have the thousands of young people leaving the province because there are no opportunities. Number 5, that we regretthatthe Government has

October 29, 1990 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 526 failed to address the challenges faced by post-secondary education students. Madam Deputy Speaker, students have had to pay over 21 percent increases over the past two years in terms of tuition. That is 21 percent, which is considerably much higher than the inflation rate. We have at the same time a Government that has fallen below the inflation rate. What type of commitment is that to improving our skills?

What type of a commitment is that to the young people of our province, when you are starting to require or asking tor those who want to upgrade themselves or enter into our university facilities, that they are going to have to start paying more, that the Government is not going to be paying their own fair share, that they are not even meeting the inflation line? The money has to come from somewhere. The students are not saying that they want the Government to pick up the total bill.

All they are saying is that the Government has a responsibility to educate, and this Government or the previous administration did not allocate the resources that were necessary to ensure that we had university and post-secondary education available so that students did not have to work on a full-time basis while at the same time being a full-time student. Madam Deputy Speaker, I can relate to that because I myself wanted to finish university, but because of economic circumstances you can only attend university on a part-time basis.

That is because when we look at the tuition fees over the past decade and the amount that the tuition has gone up in comparison to the amount that the Governments tor the last 1 0 years have contributed to the education, it is far out of proportion, and the wait has gone on, the students at the university -(interjection)- The Minister of Education (Mr. Derkach) can try and justify it all he would like, but I am referring to it from -(interjection)- Well, the Minister of Education will no doubt stand up and he will put many, many "good words" on the record.

Hopefully that is one of the things that he will want to touch upon, because the bottom line is that it has not been above the inflation rate, and that is a shame. If we look at number 6, that we regret the Government has begun the downsizing of the Department of Agriculture, and you look at '90-91 Estimates over '89-90 Estimates, we had an increase of 48.3 percent, but if you look at the '90-91 Estimates over the '89-90 actuals, you will see that- An Honourable Member: You do not want to do that, do you? Mr. Lamoureux: We do not want to get things too complicated tor the Minister of Agriculture (Mr.

Findlay), but so that he understands I will run it by him one more time. If you take a look at the '90-91 Estimates and you com pare it over to the '89-90 actual, you will find that in fact there is a 36.1 percent increase. Why do we have the increase, Madam Deputy Speaker? Well, the federal offloading of the crop insurance probably is a good reason why we have that -(interjection)- The Minister of Agriculture tries to put words in my mouth, but I would suggest that, like the Minister of Education, he might do well if he sat back and put his words on the record, his words of wisdom if you will.

In addition, we have the one-time Manitoba interest rate assistance program. But if we really look at the Department of Agriculture, and you go into some of the line by line, you will see the development in marketing division is down by $848,000.00. We have to start looking at priorities, and what this Government and how this Government has prioritized. We take a look at the technical services and training, down $767,000 .00. Agriculture research, where many would argue that the future is in terms of agriculture, there is no change. •

(2140) The Liberal Party regrets that the Government has failed to develop innovative programs in order to develop a community health program, thereby lessening our dependence on institutional models of health care delivery. We are no closer to moving to community-based health care than we were two years ago when this Government took office. Rather, what we have seen is movement from this Government toward a two-tier Tory system of health care, and that is that tor those who can afford to go down to the States, or to go to some of the clinics to get some of their health care needs looked after, can do that.

But what about those Manitobans who do not have the financial resources, who do not have the luxury of being able to do that? This is the direction that we have seen the current Government go. They have been away from the preventive. The

527 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 29, 1990 Government has been in office for over two and a half years, and they have to start taking some responsibility and be a bit bold, and try and get some initiatives that will make a difference. Not just talk about it, but in fact do something about it. The Liberal Party also regrets that this Government has failed to take any action to stem the destructive tide of bankruptcies in the Province of Manitoba. We have had bankruptcies increase since 1988, 42 percent. That is something that says a lot for the economy here in Manitoba.

The pain, the emotion that so many Manitobans have to go through because of the bankruptcies is very sad, and we would like to have seen something in the throne speech, in the budget, to give some type of indication that the Government itself is concerned. The Liberal Party regrets that the Government has failed to take any measures that would lead to job creation, so we can retain Manitoba jobs for Manitobans. Once again, we have seen no initiatives.

They say that we have created jobs, that we have created more jobs now than we had when we were first elected in office. -(interjection)- Madam Deputy Speaker, the Minister for Consumer and Corporate Affairs (Mr. Connery) says 525,000 now in the Manitoba work force, but I pose to the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs, what jobs are we losing, and what jobs are we gaining. Are those the type of jobs that this Government wants to see in Manitoba?

I do not oppose the new jobs or the service industry expanding in the province, but I do oppose the lack of action that this Government has seen to take when it comes to creating jobs which would see Manitobans being paid a decent wage. There is a big difference between a minimum wage job and a job that pays, in manufacturing, a decent wage so that Manitobans can buy their homes, so Manitobans can have that much greater of a disposable income.

Madam Deputy Speaker, the Liberal Party also regrets that the Government has failed to recognize the need for research and development in this province, thereby denying a viable future for our province. The National Research Council believes that Governments should spend in and around 2.5 percent of the GNP into research and development. My question, and the best way to summarize this, Madam Deputy Speaker, is likely to encourage the Government Members, in particular the Cabinet, to ask them what percentage of the GNP is actually going toward research and development?

Madam Deputy Speaker, this is why, in part, that the Liberal Party felt that it was important that we amend this budget. This is why I find it appalling that the Leader of the New Democratic Party (Mr. Doer) and his colleagues would oppose our amendments. In the comments that they have made they have been very c:lear. -(interjection)- The Member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton) says it is going to cause an election. If the Government cannot sell its own budget to their own Members, then yes, they are going to be in trouble -(interjection)- The Minister of Health (Mr.

Orchard) is right, it did happen once, and I still thank Mr. Walding to this very day. Madam Deputy Speaker, one would have to believe that this, as much as some of us might like to believe, might precipitate an election, to make that type of an accusation, or to base making, or not making, amendments to the budget because there is going to be an election as a direct result, is irresponsible. The official Opposition, Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition, has failed to recognize the inadequaciE1s of this budget, but the Third Party, steered by the Member for River Heights (Mrs.

Carstairs), who will be there for many, many more years to come, in terms of the next four years if the current Government is able to survive the full four years. We never take anything for granted. Madam Deputy Speaker, there are several other things that I was wanting to talk about in regard to this budget, several other issues. The first one is the environment. Environment is very important to many Manitobans and -(interjection)- The NDP had many faults, but so does the current Conservative Governm,rnt.

What we do, we look at the Rafferty-Alameda dam project and, yes , the Member of Parliament for Transcona I believe did say not only did the former New Democratic administration make a mess of things, but he did say that the current Government is also making a mess of things when it comes to protecting Manitoba's interest on the environment on the Rafferty-Alameda project. Madam Deputy Speaker, one has to ask the question, where has the Government been? Why has the Government not sought any type of injunction to ensure that Manitoba's interest is protected by preventing the dam from going ahead

October 29, 1990 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 528 at least until we have some type of environmental assessment project done? -(interjection)- The Minister has asked why. We are the ones who should be asking why, and they should be telling us why they have not done it. If we look at Repap, we will find that 20 percent of Manitoba's forest has been given away to Repap, and not one environment impact study. -(interjection)- Why? That is right. The Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard) has the operative word, why.

I would suggest to the Minister of Health that when he sits in Cabinet next week, or this week, he look eye to eye to the Minister responsible for the Environment (Mr. Cummings) and ask him why. That is right, and when he is asking him why on that, ask him why he has not asked about the injunction. Why is he not looking after Manitobans' best interests? In regard to recycling, I had the pleasure of having a group of Grade 7 students from Meadows West School meet me one evening.

It was very encouraging to see the youth of our province, and I must say I was very impressed to come home and see a circle of Grade 7 students sitting around. I sat down and they told me that they were concerned and they wanted to hand me a petition. I wantto read the petition so I will ask the Members to be quiet so they can at least -(interjection)- It looks like it could be recycled paper, and I am sure if they had recycled paper, the Grade 7 students would have used recycled paper. I would like the Members of the Chamber to hear what it is that these Grade 7 students ask of me.

It reads: This petition has been made by six Grade 7 students in Mr. Teetaert's home room. We have made this petition to take to Mr. Kevin Lamoureux. As you know, the Blue Bag Recycling program is going to be shut down at the end of the year. This means that the Blue Bags we bought and helped recycle with will no longer be picked up. This means more landfills will again be filled with paper waste. Our land we have for putting waste in is going to be full, and soon we will have nowhere to put our waste.

This means maybe not the people of today, but the people of tomorrow may not have any place for the waste, and they may have to live with it, and it could cause disease and soon everyone would die. By signing this petition you may be able to help us get help to make our environment better. Thank you for your support. It lists the six students, Joyce Bella, Janice Connon, Teresa Miles, Eileen Reonal, Doreen Solis and Jennifer Zelezen. *

(2150) Madam Deputy Speaker, these students went around and received a good number of signatures. -(interjection)- The Member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton)-I am just adding them up right now. It would appear to be well over 100 signatures from their class and other students. - (applause)- They in fact do deserve applause. Upon being inspired by what they had to tell me, I drafted a resolution, and Members can maybe refer to the Order Paper.

It makes a suggestion that one of the things that we might want to consider doing, in a very non-political way, of course, because at times I can be very non-political, that maybe this Chamber will adopt that resolution, so that we are sending a very strong message to the youth of our province. -(interjection)- I heard the Minister of Natural Resources (Mr. Enns) make comments regarding how important it is for the Opposition Parties to bring forward positive things. I am going to suggest that this is one of those positive things that the Minister of Natural Resources will be more than happy to support.

I hope and trust that that resolution will come so that students who do have good ideas can be rewarded. -(interjection)- The Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard) says I have a good one here. I think the Minister of Health would support the resolution. I have the Minister of Health's support and I am sure he will fight for me in Cabinet. I appreciate that. Not wanting to leave the environment quite yet, I do want to be very brief because there is so much more I want to talk about.

The former Member for Springfield introduced a Bill last Session that dealt with bottles, and suggested that the Government should adopt a policy that would see a lot of these discarded bottles, liquor bottles and so forth having some type of refund value, so that we are not seeing them all over the place. Another good idea from a good Member. This is an idea that we received when we went on a tour up North and it was actually in Thompson that we received that idea. I am sure the Member for Thompson (Mr.

Ashton) will support that as equally I am sure that the Government some time in the future will come to the conclusion that it is a good idea and something that is worthy of support. I am quickly running out of time and I have so many more other things that I want to talk about. I

529 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MJ~NITOBA October 29, 1990 did not have a chance to comment as much as I would have liked to on housing. I was the previous critic for housing and in a throne speech I was able to comment regarding the Landlord and Tenant Bill but I did not get to comment on other aspects of the Department of Housing. We look at some of the things that the official Opposition did then for the Liberal Party, and no doubt we will be following the new critic, the Member for Osborne (Mr. Alcock).

Things such as our SAFER and SAFFR programs, programs that were Liberal ideas back in Lloyd Axworthy's time inside this Chamber. Everyone remembers Mr. Axworthy's resolution suggesting what is necessary is supplement programs for our seniors and those who are on fixed income and it was nice for the Conservative Government to act upon that resolution, just as I am sure they will act on many more good ideas from the Liberal Party. They are two good programs in all seriousness and we will be following to see what the Government's action will be on these programs.

Infill homes was another thing, Madam Deputy Speaker; it would have been nice to have seen more infill homes built. I understand that there are some problems with some of the infill homes that we currently have, but we have to recognize the fact that the program can work as long as you are watching in terms of the number and the places that they are going. We had the Ladco and MHRC deal and we had some really good debates on that particular issue and that is something that I will have to conclude that the Minister of Housing (Mr. Ducharme) and I will agree to disagree.

Only time will determine if that was a good deal. A lot of concern about Co-op HomeStart Program. It would have been nice if the grants would have remained rather than a loan package. You have now seen a resolution in which I played a major role. I should not say just myself; actually many members of the Inkster constituency took an active role in ensuring that the Liberal Party came up with some good policy, and I like to think that we did with our co-op housing, suggesting that as an alternative to non-profit housing, we move in the direction of housing co-ops.

I am hoping once again when that resolution comes up and I look forward to talking about it, the New Democrats and the Conservatives will support us because it is a viable alternative. There is one area that no doubt the Minister of Housing (Mr. Ducharme) and the current critic for Housing will have to take the NOP to task on, and I guess I have to suggest this is probably one of the issues in which I wish, in one sense, that I was still the critic for Housing, because I would make sure that Manitobans were aware of what the current critic for the New Democratic Party is proposing for housing.

Madam Deputy Speaker, the Member for Burrows (Mr. Martindale) is suggesting that the principal made on your principal residence , owner-occupied principal money that you would make on the selling of your home, is taxed. I could not believe that the New Democrats would move in that direction. Do they not realize that a $30,000 home is not someone who is a millionaire who resides in the house? He used the example of Mr. Turner, but Mr.

Turner is not the only one who owns the home; there are many members in the area that he represents, seniors, young families, who own, who have saved their money to invest into the home. One of this New Democratic Party's philosophy, the real philosophy of the New Democratic Party, they are worse than the communists in Russia. Gorbachev is saying that he wants to have rights to property. We have the current NOP saying that they want to go back to Government-owned property, they want to start taxing principal residence--unbelievable.

I can assure you lthat the residents of Inkster, that the residents of this province will be well aware of what the ideology ,of the New Democratic Party really and truly is. In that sense I am regretting that-I should not say I regret-it is sad to see that I am losing the Housing portfolio. It was indeed a pleasure, Madam Deputy Speaker, I am hoping I will get an opportunity to have my closing remarks-- Some Honourable Members: Oh, ohl Madam Deputy Speaker: Is it the will of the House to have leave for one minute to-order, please. Is there leave for the Honourable Member for Inkster to finish his remarks? Leave.

Mr. Lamoureux: Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker and Members of the Chamber, for allowing me leave because I do have quite a bit more to say. The Government might regret giving me leave in about 1 O minutes, but seeing as I have an opportunity to finish off, I did want to say that I enjoyed very much being critic of Housing and I will listen very attentively to what the current Government has to say about housing and with my fingers crossed I will hope that the Member for

October 29, 1990 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 530 Burrows (Mr. Martindale) will consult with some of his constituents. I would hope that that is a policy that will change, because in all seriousness I will suggest to the NOP Critic of Housing policy of that nature is not in Manitoba's best interests, that the princ ip al residence-so many Manitobans, everyone's dream is to own a home--be taxed is very unfortunate and I am hopeful that they will withdraw that particular remark. I did want to comment on education, and even though I will not go into too much depth on it.

This Government during my grievance in February of 1990-the Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard) says he remembers, the Minister of Education (Mr. Derkach) says he remembers it-it was regarding education and it was regarding a very serious problem that we have in north-end Winnipeg, and that is of course- Point of Order Madam Deputy Speaker: The Honourable Minister of Justice, on a point of order. Hon. James Mccrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Just for the benefit of the planning for Honourable Members how much time does the Honourable Member have left?

Madam Deputy Speaker: The Honourable Member's time had actually expired but it was the will of the House to have him complete his remarks. Point of Order Madam Deputy Speaker: The Honourable Member for Thompson, on a point of order. Mr. Ashton: It is quite noisy actually . I would suggest we do not put any restrictions on it. If the Member wants to keep talking all night he can; we can come back and pick up wherever we left off. Point of Order Madam Deputy Speaker: The Honourable Minister of Justice, on another point of order. Mr.

McCrae: We would hope the Honourable Member would not abuse the good nature of Honourables Members who granted him a little extra time to finish up his speech just in a very few short moments, is what we are talking about here, I suggest. Madam Deputy Speaker: The Honourable Minister of Justice does not have a point of order. It was the will of the House to have the Honourable Member for Inkster conclude his remarks. *** Mr.

Lamoureux: I will have other opportunities to be able to put words-there is after all-I would like to conclude by saying that education once again, which I did not get to talk about because I ran out of time, is a very high concern of mine and I look forward to getting into the Estimates, to asking some questions directly to the Minister, and in terms of the remaining, reforming of City Hall, reforming of our educational system, decentralization policy that the Government has taken upon that no doubt I would like to say a few more words about, and so much other, but on that note, Madam Deputy Speaker, I thank the Members for giving me leave to be able to conclude and I look forward to- Madam Deputy Speaker: The hour now being past 10 p.m., I am interrupting proceedings according to the rules.

The House is now adjourned and stands adjourned until 1 :30 p.m. tomorrow (Tuesday).

Budget Debate Legislative Assembly of Manitoba Monday, October 29, 1990 CONTENTS Ashton; Mitchelson; Lamoureux 510-530

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Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
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