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British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session, 38th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Wednesday, May 7, 2008 Afternoon Sitting Volume 32, Number 7 THE HONOURABLE BILL BARISOFF, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR His Honour the Honourable Steven L. Point, OBC FOURTH SESSION, 38TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Bill Barisoff EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................Hon. Gordon Campbell Deputy Premier and Minister of Education and Minister Responsible for Early Learning and Literacy...................... Hon.

Shirley Bond Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation ........................................................................................................ Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of Advanced Education and Minister Responsible for Research and Technology ........................................... Hon. Murray Coell Minister of Agriculture and Lands.......................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Pat Bell Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Multiculturalism............................................................................... Hon. Wally Oppal, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ................................................................................................................Hon. Tom Christensen Minister of State for Childcare ........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Linda Reid Minister of Community Services and Minister Responsible for Seniors’ and Women’s Issues........................................... Hon. Ida Chong Minister of Economic Development and Minister Responsible for the Asia-Pacific Initiative and the Olympics.................Hon. Colin Hansen Minister of Employment and Income Assistance ...........................................................................................................Hon.

Claude Richmond Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources .......................................................................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Minister of State for Mining......................................................................................................................................................Hon. Kevin Krueger Minister of Environment and Minister Responsible for Water Stewardship and Sustainable Communities ...............Hon.

Barry Penner Minister of Finance.......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Carole Taylor Minister of Forests and Range and Minister Responsible for Housing ............................................................................. Hon. Rich Coleman Minister of Health ......................................................................................................................................................................Hon.

George Abbott Minister of Labour and Citizens’ Services ......................................................................................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General and Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations............... Hon. John van Dongen Minister of Small Business and Revenue and Minister Responsible for Regulatory Reform............................................ Hon.

Rick Thorpe Minister of Tourism, Sport and the Arts ......................................................................................................................................Hon. Stan Hagen Minister of State for ActNow B.C. ............................................................................................................................................ Hon. Gordon Hogg Minister of Transportation...........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Kevin Falcon LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition .........................................................................................................................................................Carole James Deputy Speaker ....................................................................................................................................................................................Sindi Hawkins Deputy Speaker ...........................................................................................................................................................................

Katherine Whittred Assistant Deputy Speaker.....................................................................................................................................................................Sue Hammell Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole................................................................................................................................................. Harry Bloy Clerk of the Legislative Assembly .........................................................................................................................E.

George MacMinn, OBC, QC Clerk Assistant.........................................................................................................................................................................................Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk .......................................................................................................................................................Ian D. Izard, QC Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees ....................................................................................................................................... Craig H.

James Clerk Assistant and Committee Clerk ..........................................................................................................................................Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms............................................................................................................................................................................. A.A.

Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ...................................................................................................................................................................Jo-Anne Kern Legislative Librarian ..................................................................................................................................................................................Jane Taylor Legislative Comptroller...............................................................................................................................................................................Dan Arbic

Party Standings: Liberal 46; New Democratic 33 ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) .................................................................... Shuswap Austin, Robin (NDP)............................................................................. Skeena Bains, Harry (NDP).................................................................. Surrey-Newton Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)..........................................Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Hon.

Pat (L) .............................................................Prince George North Bennett, Bill (L) ........................................................................ East Kootenay Black, Iain (L) ............................................................ Port Moody–Westwood Bloy, Harry (L)................................................................................Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L).....................................Prince George–Mount Robson Brar, Jagrup (NDP).....................................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Campbell, Hon.

Gordon (L) .........................................Vancouver–Point Grey Cantelon, Ron (L)..............................................................Nanaimo-Parksville Chong, Hon. Ida (L) .................................................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ...........................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Christensen, Hon. Tom (L) ................................................. Okanagan-Vernon Chudnovsky, David (NDP) ......................................... Vancouver-Kensington Coell, Hon.

Murray (L) .....................................Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon. Rich (L)...........................................Fort Langley–Aldergrove Conroy, Katrine (NDP) .......................................... West Kootenay–Boundary Coons, Gary (NDP) ....................................................................... North Coast Cubberley, David (NDP)............................................................Saanich South de Jong, Hon.

Michael (L) ...................................Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Dix, Adrian (NDP) .........................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Evans, Corky (NDP).................................................................Nelson-Creston Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L) .......................................................

Surrey-Cloverdale Farnworth, Mike (NDP) ...............................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Fleming, Rob (NDP) ..............................................................Victoria-Hillside Fraser, Scott (NDP) ..............................................................Alberni-Qualicum Gentner, Guy (NDP).......................................................................Delta North Hagen, Hon. Stan (L) ................................................................ Comox Valley Hammell, Sue (NDP) ................................................... Surrey–Green Timbers Hansen, Hon.

Colin (L) ..................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Hawes, Randy (L).......................................................... Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Sindi (L) ............................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ................................................................ Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Hon.

Gordon (L).....................................................Surrey–White Rock Horgan, John (NDP)......................................................Malahat–Juan de Fuca Horning, Al (L)........................................................... Kelowna–Lake Country Ilich, Hon. Olga (L)...............................................................Richmond Centre James, Carole (NDP).......................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Jarvis, Daniel (L)..................................................

North Vancouver–Seymour Karagianis, Maurine (NDP) ........................................... Esquimalt-Metchosin Krog, Leonard (NDP)......................................................................... Nanaimo Krueger, Hon. Kevin (L) .....................................Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP)........................... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lali, Harry (NDP)........................................................................

Yale-Lillooet Lee, Richard T. (L)....................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L).............................................................. Peace River South Les, John (L)........................................................................ Chilliwack-Sumas Macdonald, Norm (NDP).................................... Columbia River–Revelstoke MacKay, Dennis (L)....................................................

Bulkley Valley–Stikine Mayencourt, Lorne (L).......................................................Vancouver-Burrard McIntyre, Joan (L).................................................West Vancouver–Garibaldi Neufeld, Hon. Richard (L) .................................................. Peace River North Nuraney, John (L).............................................................Burnaby-Willingdon Oppal, Hon. Wally, QC (L).......................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Penner, Hon. Barry (L)...........................................................

Chilliwack-Kent Polak, Mary (L) ....................................................................................Langley Puchmayr, Chuck (NDP)...................................................... New Westminster Ralston, Bruce (NDP) ............................................................. Surrey-Whalley Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ................................................................ Richmond East Richmond, Hon. Claude (L).............................................................

Kamloops Robertson, Gregor (NDP) ................................................Vancouver-Fairview Roddick, Valerie (L).......................................................................Delta South Routley, Doug (NDP)..................................................... Cowichan-Ladysmith Rustad, John (L) ........................................................

Prince George–Omineca Sather, Michael (NDP).........................................Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ...................................Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Bob (NDP)..................................................................Cariboo North Simpson, Shane (NDP) ....................................................Vancouver-Hastings Sultan, Ralph (L) ....................................................West Vancouver–Capilano Taylor, Hon.

Carole (L).....................................................Vancouver-Langara Thorne, Diane (NDP) .................................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Thorpe, Hon. Rick (L).......................................................Okanagan-Westside Trevena, Claire (NDP) ..................................................................North Island van Dongen, Hon. John (L)............................................ Abbotsford-Clayburn Whittred, Katherine (L)........................................

North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wyse, Charlie (NDP) .................................................................Cariboo South Yap, John (L)...................................................................Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn....................................................Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman .......................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum..........................................................................

Scott Fraser Bulkley Valley–Stikine ...........................................................Dennis MacKay Burnaby North ...........................................................................Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds........................................................................Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Willingdon................................................................... John Nuraney Burquitlam.......................................................................................Harry Bloy Cariboo North..............................................................................

Bob Simpson Cariboo South..............................................................................Charlie Wyse Chilliwack-Kent ..................................................................Hon. Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas............................................................................... John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke................................................. Norm Macdonald Comox Valley........................................................................ Hon.

Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville..............................................................Diane Thorne Cowichan-Ladysmith ................................................................. Doug Routley Delta North ...................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South ............................................................................. Valerie Roddick East Kootenay................................................................................

Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin.........................................................Maurine Karagianis Fort Langley–Aldergrove ..................................................Hon. Rich Coleman Kamloops.....................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson ............................................Hon. Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country.................................................................. Al Horning Kelowna-Mission ......................................................................

Sindi Hawkins Langley ...........................................................................................Mary Polak Malahat–Juan de Fuca .................................................................. John Horgan Maple Ridge–Mission ................................................................ Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ..................................................... Michael Sather Nanaimo......................................................................................

Leonard Krog Nanaimo-Parksville .....................................................................Ron Cantelon Nelson-Creston .............................................................................Corky Evans New Westminster .................................................................. Chuck Puchmayr North Coast....................................................................................

Gary Coons North Island ...............................................................................Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale................................................Katherine Whittred North Vancouver–Seymour..........................................................Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head ........................................................... Hon. Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon......................................................... Hon. Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside..............................................................Hon.

Rick Thorpe Peace River North.......................................................... Hon. Richard Neufeld Peace River South..................................................................... Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley .................................................Hon. Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain ............................................Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Westwood.................................................................... Iain Black Powell River–Sunshine Coast ...............................................

Nicholas Simons Prince George North.................................................................... Hon. Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson ............................................Hon. Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca................................................................ John Rustad Richmond Centre......................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Richmond East........................................................................Hon.

Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston...........................................................................John Yap Saanich North and the Islands ............................................ Hon. Murray Coell Saanich South ........................................................................ David Cubberley Shuswap............................................................................Hon. George Abbott Skeena.......................................................................................... Robin Austin Surrey-Cloverdale............................................................... Hon.

Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers ................................................................Sue Hammell Surrey-Newton............................................................................... Harry Bains Surrey–Panorama Ridge.................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey-Tynehead ....................................................................... Dave S. Hayer Surrey-Whalley...........................................................................Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock ............................................................Hon.

Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard..............................................................Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview.............................................................Gregor Robertson Vancouver-Fraserview .................................................Hon.

Wally Oppal, QC Vancouver-Hastings .................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington.......................................................David Chudnovsky Vancouver-Kingsway ......................................................................Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara ........................................................... Hon. Carole Taylor Vancouver–Mount Pleasant........................................ Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey ................................................Hon.

Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena.........................................................Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill...................................................................

Carole James Victoria-Hillside ...........................................................................Rob Fleming West Kootenay–Boundary........................................................Katrine Conroy West Vancouver–Capilano...........................................................Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi ........................................................Joan McIntyre Yale-Lillooet..................................................................................... Harry Lali

CONTENTS Wednesday, May 7, 2008 Afternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Introductions by Members ....................................................................................................... ............................................ 12091 Statements..................................................................................................................... .......................................................... 12091 Anthony Humphreys Mr. Speaker (Hon. B.

Barisoff) Statements (Standing Order 25B) .............................................................................................................................. ........... 12091 Preservation of agricultural land M. Sather Child and Youth Mental Health Day M. Polak Foundation skills assessment N. Macdonald Ward Clapham J. Yap North American Occupational Safety and Health Week C. Puchmayr Bob McNary I.

Black Oral Questions................................................................................................................. ....................................................... 12094 Disclosure of documents in B.C. Rail court case L. Krog Hon. W. Oppal B. Ralston Government action on forest industry D. Routley Hon. R. Coleman C. Puchmayr N. Macdonald Passenger safety on SkyTrain M. Farnworth Hon. J. van Dongen A. Dix Hon. K. Falcon Tenancy dispute resolution process D. Thorne Hon. R.

Coleman Notice of Motion ............................................................................................................... ..................................................... 12098 Committee of Supply to sit in three sections Hon. M. de Jong Petitions...................................................................................................................... ............................................................. 12098 H. Lali R. Hawes

Second Reading of Bills........................................................................................................ ................................................. 12099 Health Professions (Regulatory Reform) Amendment Act, 2008 (Bill 25) (continued) A. Dix H. Bains J. Brar H. Lali C. Puchmayr M. Karagianis Hon. G. Abbott Health Statutes Amendment Act, 2008 (Bill 26) Hon. G. Abbott A.

Dix Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply............................................................................................................ ................................................. 12129 Estimates: Ministry of Forests and Range and Minister Responsible for Housing (continued) D. Chudnovsky Hon. R. Coleman M. Sather

12091 WEDNESDAY, MAY 7, 2008 The House met at 1:32 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Prayers. Introductions by Members Hon. G. Hogg: We are joined in the House today by two people who are making their first visit to Victoria. They are great contributors to the community of South Surrey–White Rock. Would you please welcome Ms. Bev Poole and Jack Boyce. Hon. C. Richmond: I have some very special guests visiting us in the House today.

I'd like the members to welcome Jeff Riley from CAYA, Communi- cations Assistance for Young Adults; Susan Blockberger from the International Soci ety for Augmentative and Alternative Communication; Ms. Melinda Rundell and Peter Martin, who are recipients of some of their de- vices; Jill Elvins, Melinda' s caregiver, and her husband Bruce Elvins. Would the House please make them very welcome. [1335] N. Macdonald: This is a particularly special day for me. We have a class of students that have come all the w a y f r o m L a d y G r e y E l e m e n t a r y S c h o o l i n G o l d e n . T h e y c a m e b y b u s .

T h a t ' s R o g e r s P a s s . T h a t i s T h r e e Valley Gap. That is the Coquihalla. They know it all well. For some of them, it's their first trip on the ferry. They are here with parent s Larry Lindequist, Cheryl Beech, Barry Klassen, Heather Sadler, Neil Allkins, Wanda Johnson, Joe Devlin, Caroline Cuyler and of course their teacher Kara Hunt. I want you to welcome the group that has travelled the furthest, I think, in the history of B.C. to watch us in action. So please join me in welcoming them. K. Whittred: Hon. Members, on behalf of Mr.

Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to wel- come a group of public servants seated in the gallery. They are participating in a full-day parliamentary pro- cedure workshop offered by the Legislative Assembly. The workshop provides a firsthand opportunity for the public service to gain a greater understanding of the relationship between the work of their ministries and how that work affects this Legislature. Would the House please make them welcome. J. McIntyre: I'd like to introduce two special guests today who are here in the ga llery.

They're very special to someone who is special to me, my excellent legisla- tive assistant Cayley Brown. They are her grandparents Mac and Dorothy Atkinson, who are visiting here to- day from Nanaimo and whom I had the pleasure of meeting before they went to lunch in the legislative dining room. I learned that this month they will be celebrating their 85th birthdays as well as their 59th wedding anniversary. I would like the House to join me in congratulating and welcoming them today. Mr.

Speaker: Members, I want you to pay close attention to this next introduction, because you know how proud I was when my first granddaughter Kayla was born. The Minister of Tourism and Sport has a special announcement to make. Hon. S. Hagen: I have two introductions today. The first one — I would like to introduce her to the world, actually. Born this mornin g at 9:35, our first grand- daughter. Hon. K. Krueger: Does she have a name? Hon. S. Hagen: I haven't managed to trace that down yet.

In the legislative precinct today we have a group of 40 grade 10 students from Mark Isfeld Secondary School in the great Comox Valley. The students are accompa- nied by their teacher Mr. Barry Walker as well as some parents and chaperones. I look forward to meeting with them in my office after question period. Would the House please join me in making them welcome. D. Hayer: I have three special guests here today. The first one is Dalminder Del Virk, notary public. He's the director of the B.C. Notaries Public and a community leader in Surrey who's really helping the community out.

The other ones are Wayne Braid, executive director of the Society of Notaries Public of B.C., as well as Kenneth Sherk, president of the Society of Notaries Public of B.C. Would the House please make them very welcome. Statements ANTHONY HUMPHREYS Mr. Speaker: Hon. Members, as you know, Tony Humphreys, the Sergeant-at-Arms, has been absent from the chamber for several weeks. I'd like to inform members that this afternoon Tony is undergoing multiple bypass surgery at Royal Jubilee Hospital. His surgery is likely occurring right now as we speak.

I know that the members will want to join me in sending Tony the best wishes for a speedy recovery. [1340] Statements (Standing Order 25

B) PRESERVATION OF AGRICULTURAL LAND M. Sather: Farmland is one of the most valuable resources we can have in our community. Local economies rely on it being used wisely for agricultural production and other agricu lturally oriented farm-

12092 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, MAY 7, 2008 income-generating pursuits. In my communities, Pitt Meadows — the sixth-largest agricultural area in Brit- ish Columbia in terms of economic significance — has annual gross farm receip ts of just over $50 million. In Maple Ridge the annual gross farm receipts are approximately $39 million. Farming contributes to the local economy, provides greater food security, prot ects environmental values, maintains rural character, supports local business and provides local employment.

Farming can bring tens of millions of dollars of economic value to communities with varied production of anything from berries to dairy. As a result of the Agricultural Land Commission Act in 1972, approximately 4,744 hectares of land were initially reserved for agriculture in Maple Ridge. In 2003 that total consisted of 3,679 hectares, or approximately 14.3 percent of the area of Maple Ridge. This represents a 24 percent reduction in land base since the ALC was established, in comparison to a 7 percent decline for the whole of the Lower Mainland.

Preserving our agricultural lands is a high priority for citizens around the world in an age of peak oil and rising costs. We know what we must do. The challenge for governments, however, is to commit to preserving and conserving agricultural lands for our future so that we may all survive and thrive. CHILD AND YOUTH MENTAL HEALTH DAY M. Polak: When we consider the health of our chil- dren and youth, we most often think of their physical well-being. We're much less likely to think of the sig- nificance of mental illness in the lives of our young people.

In reality, mental illnesses surpass all other health problems in terms of the number of children affected and the degree of impairment. One in seven, or an es- timated 140,000 children and youth, will experience a mental disorder serious enough to cause significant distress and impair their functioning at home, at school and with their peers and family. Today we recognize Child and Youth Mental Health Day. Through its proclamation, we seek not only to raise awareness but also to provide hope and support to those who can often feel hopeless and unsupported.

Over the past five years, we've witnessed a significant shift in how children's mental health is approached in B.C. There's a greater emphas is on prevention through initiatives like the Friends program, which has served 90,000 grades 4 and 5 students through a partnership with the Ministry of Education. There's a renewed vision for early intervention as the child and youth mental health plan has been implemented. Public education has been enhanced through a partnership with the Knowledge Network and the Children's Health Policy Centre.

Sexual abuse intervention programs have been assisted through training and new standard s of quality and consis- tency. As a province we've recognized that without effec- tive treatment, children and youth with mental health problems can be robbed of their ability to become con- tributing members of their community as adults. We've taken leadership in providing support to 19,000 B.C. children and youth with a ment al health plan that's the first of its kind in Canada.

On this Child and Youth Mental Health Day, I know that my colleagues in this House join me in offer- ing support, encouragement and hope to those who need to know that they are indeed not alone. FOUNDATION SKILLS ASSESSMENT N. Macdonald: Last week The Vancouver Sun pub- lished a ranking of elementary schools put together by the Fraser Institute. They used the foundation skills assessment test results. I've administered FSA tests as a teacher and as a principal, and they are very specific skills that are being tested. In math, they test word problems.

The FSA test is on word problems not because it's the most important skill; it is just one of thousands of skills. FSA is not meant to be used the way the Fraser Institute uses it. It's like measuring and ranking MLAs, using data like the number of business cards handed out. What parents and educators know is that a good school is about teaching a wide range of skills, but it's also about developing honesty, tolerance, work ethic, self-confidence, appreciation of the arts, sportsmanship and a whole host of things that you cannot measure. [1345] Kara Hunt is here. She taught my daughter 15 years ago.

She came back from univ ersity, and I told her that Kara was coming. Her first words were: "I loved Kara Hunt. I remember that she made me feel good about m y s e l f . S h e m a d e u s a l l l o v e w h a t w e w e r e d o i n g . " That is an intangible that the Fraser Institute will never measure. The Minister of Education talked about the school that was ranked at the bottom of the Fraser Institute list, and she said that it was an exceptional school. The Minister of Education has the ability to judge that, and the Fraser Institute does not. WARD CLAPHAM J.

Yap: The long arm of the law just got a little bit shorter in Richmond. After seven years with the Rich- mond detachment of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, Supt. Ward Clapham recently announced his retirement, drawing an illustrious policing career to an end. Entering the RCMP in 1980, Ward spent the first 17 years of his career in various Alberta detachments, moving to Vancouver and Nanaimo before coming to Richmond in 2001. As a cop, Ward was unique in that he believed in preventative policing.

Unde r his watch, Richmond's RCMP detachment has become a model for all others in the delivery of community and youth-focused policing. Ward believed that in addition to enforcing the law, it

WEDNESDAY, MAY 7, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12093 is a police officer's duty to be a positive role model for y o u t h , e s p e c i a l l y t h o s e a t r i s k o f b e c o m i n g o f f e n d e r s . Ward challenged his officers to spend time reaching out to youth, and many followed his lead, participating in sporting activities like basketball to allow youth to interact with policemen and policewomen in a positive environment. One of his lasting legacies will be the onside positive ticketing program in which youth are given rewards for good behaviour, rewards su ch as sports passes and movie tickets.

This program is helping to change the thinking and attitudes of Richmond's youth, one young person at a time. Ward's innovative approaches to policing garnered him international attention not just from other police forces but also from groups such as the Stephen Covey organization. Ward engaged the community in supporting police initiatives. He's also a tireless supporter of worth- while community causes and service organizations like Rotary. He's a member of the ActNow B.C. leadership council.

It is said that the Mounties always get their man, and with Ward Clapham, they w e r e l u c k y e n o u g h t o keep him for 28 years. His legacy of goodwill and rela- tionships will live on in ou r city, and I'd like to thank Ward for his contributions to public safety in Rich- mond and our province. I ask all members to join me in wishing Ward Clapham a happy retirement from the RCMP and best wishes for the next

chapter of his life. NORTH AMERICAN OCCUPATIONAL SAFETY AND HEALTH WEEK C. Puchmayr: Today I rise to acknowledge North American Occupational Safety and Health Week. It's a time for all of us to reflec t on the important reminder and focus on ensuring that we do everything in our power to fill the gaps and enhance the standards of protection for all workers. Whether young, old, white- c o l l a r o r b l u e - c o l l a r , w e a l l n e e d t o b e a w a r e o f o u r hazards and stressors that we are exposed to as we earn a living every day. There are many challenges to this endeavour.

Long hours and fatigue are causative of shorter life expectancy. Unmanaged stress is also related to work- ing environments. Safety hazards and chemicals in a workplace are causative cont ributors to injury and even death. This year's theme is "Commitment for life." This is intended to be a reminder for every employer and em- ployee and partners that the public is focused on the importance of preventing injury and illness in the workplace. A week centred on occupational health and safety has been recognized in Canada for over 20 years.

In '97, with growing economic integration of North America, the awareness has extended into Mexico. This is a re- minder that the world becomes smaller. We must use every day to arrive…. From around the world, we must develop and export good safety standards for all. Involvement in Occupational Safety and Health Week has been shown to raise awareness, improve attitude toward safety, and increase understanding of occupational health and safety. This week is a time to prevent accidents and recognize the hazards of our daily toil. The success of this week is rooted in a community- based approach.

Speakers will be going to high schools and speaking to students. Last year a record number of young people died on the job in British Columbia. Most of the injuries and fatalities happened to workers in the first six months of their employment. We are the ones with the ability here to change the conditions in B.C. and create and export best practices throughout the world. This is a good week to take the time to reflect on the ways we can make a difference. Remember, focus on hazards, report unsafe conditions, do not perform unsafe work, follow safe work practices, and look out for yourselves and others.

Let's all devote ourselves to treat every day and every week as Occu- pational Safety and Health Week. [1350] BOB McNARY I. Black: I read a humorous quote a couple of days ago on the topic of volunteering, which said: "Don't ever question the value of volunt eers. Noah's ark was built by volunteers. The Titanic, on the other hand, was built by professionals." Bob McNary is a man in my community who could have built that ark single-handedly.

In the 45 years since Bob moved to Coquitla m with his family, he's been responding non-stop to the calling of, and lending his gifts and experience to, dozens of organizations throughout the Tri-Cities, playing the role of president, board member or dishwasher — whatever was needed. There was no job too big or too small for Bob McNary. To the likely chagrin of his beloved late wife of 49 years, Marge, he's never been a guy who can say no. He's got an enormous heart, a delightfully grumpy demeanour, a wickedly dry sense of humour, and he'll tell you exactly where you stand. Let me tell you where Bob stands.

Bob is one of only ten Freedom of the City recipients in Coquitlam. Bob has touched more live s and helped lead more organizations than I can list off in these two minutes. Notable ones of a partial list include the Coquitlam Public Library board, the Special Olympics, the Sportsman Club, Eagle Ridge Hospital Foundation, Crossroads Hospice, Douglas College, the Coquitlam Foundation, the Festival Coquitlam and InnerVisions. This guy is a rotarian, a kinsman and a Chamber of Commerce Citizen of the Year winner.

Knowing his quiet modesty I can tell you, because he's watching right now, he's pretty choked that I'm doing this. You can learn a lot about a person when you ask him: "What are you most proud of — completing a project? Your kids? A prized possession?" I asked that o f B o b , a n d h e r e ' s w h a t h e s a i d : " I ' m m o s t p r o u d o f securing Coquitlam as the host city for the B.C. Special

12094 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, MAY 7, 2008 Olympic games twice in ten years. I'm most proud of securing a new home for th e public library, and I'm most proud for helping star t the Evening of Caring fundraiser for the Eagle Ridge Hospital." He also jokes that one of his biggest accomplish- ments was staying the heck out of politics for all these years. Please join me in saluting a great friend of Co- quitlam and a role model of mine. He's one of the good guys — Bob McNary. Oral Questions DISCLOSURE OF DOCUMENTS IN B.C. RAIL COURT CASE L.

Krog: In 2007 during debates in this Legislature, the Premier repeatedly told this House that neither he nor anyone in his office ha d anything to do with the disclosure of government documents in the B.C. Rail corruption trial or investigation. He said: "The Premier's office does not have a direct input into that." Court affidavits recently obtained by the opposition completely contradict the Premier. The RCMP wanted to question various government officials and cabinet ministers including Gary Collins and Judith Reid about three specific documents.

The court affidavits show that these three docu- ments were discussed with Ken Dobell, the Premier's deputy and closest adviser. He made the decision to disclose them just to the RCMP. My question to the Premie r: does he stand by his assertion that his office, that his deputy, that his politi- cal staff had no involvement with the disclosure of the documents? Hon. W. Oppal: We've been very clear about this. We're not going to engage in any specifics as to what took place. This matter is before the courts. The opposi- tion members know about it. We're not going to talk about it. Mr.

Speaker: Member has a supplemental. L. Krog: I would have thought integrity is just the thing we'd want to talk about in this Legislature. In an e- mail from the government's own lawyer George Copley to Ken Dobell, Mr. Copley states: "After discussing these documents, your instructions were to waive privilege with respect to these confidential documents for the lim- ited purpose of the proposed investigative reviews." That is absolutely unequivocal. There is nothing to interpret.

Ken Dobell gave very specific instructions about the disclosure of documents — documents that went to the heart of this corruption investigation. It completely contradicts everything the Premier has said. Again to the Premier: wh o's telling the truth? Who's right — the Premier or the government's own lawyer? [1355] Hon. W. Oppal: Let me quote from what the member for Nanaimo said on November 2, 2006: "It is essential to the rule of law that the integrity of the judi- cial process not be interfer ed with.

High-profile prose- cutions have failed in the past because politicians felt compelled to make comments in the public that were later deemed prejudicial." Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. The member has a further supplemental. L. Krog: The questions are not about the documents, and they're not about the outcome of the corruption trial. They are about the Pr emier's credibility and his integrity in this House. Th ey are about comments this Premier made in this House. The government's own lawyer has directly contra- dicted statements the Premie r has made. Mr. Copley is now on record as saying that Mr.

Dobell discussed documents and issued instructions about their release. The RCMP then used those documents to interview Ministers Collins and Reid. Will the Premier finally come clean and tell British Columbians what he and his office were trying to hide and who they were trying to protect? Hon. W. Oppal: These issues are all before the Supreme Court of British Columbia. They will be judged in the Supreme Court of Br itish Columbia as they should be discussed and judged in that court, not in this House. B. Ralston: The Attorney General has a unique con- stitutional position in the government and in the cabi- net.

He, in one respect, is a political member of cabinet and participates in political debate, but he has a second part of his duties which is as the guardian of the public interest. He is to exercise that in a non-partisan way. His job goes beyond running political interference for the Premier. The Premier said here in this Legislature in 2007 that the Premier's office did not have direct input into that — referring to the disclo sure of documents. Why did the Premier try to hide the fact that Mr. Dobell, his deputy minister, his alter ego, reviewed crucial docu- ments in this case? Hon. W. Oppal: Well, the….

Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. W. Oppal: Well, that member got it partly right. I do have a special role, and part of my distinc- tive role in government is to protect the integrity of the process and the independence of the courts. For that reason, we don't comment on whatever takes place in the courts. The member is a lawyer. He knows better. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental.

WEDNESDAY, MAY 7, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12095 B. Ralston: Part of the difficult job of the Attorney General is when questions like this arise and involve other members of cabinet. He has the duty at that point to exercise his independent jurisdiction. That's some- thing he's not prepared to do, obviously, and it's shameful. Mr. Dobell reviewed crucial documents in this case. He did not sign an undertaking, as did the other four people who had access to these documents.

That proto- col requiring the signing of those undertakings was to protect the integrity of the investigation and the integrity of the evidence. How can the Premier convince anyone that Mr. Dobell didn't speak to him about those documents? Hon. W. Oppal: Whatever Mr. Dobell did or didn't do is something that will be determined in a court of law, and we should wait for the judge to determine what he did or he didn't do and if it did impact on the system. That's entirely within the… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Continue, Attorney. Hon. W. Oppal: …jurisdiction of the Supreme Court.

We don't comment on those matters. That's pretty basic. [1400] GOVERNMENT ACTION ON FOREST INDUSTRY D. Routley: T o d a y , o n t h e v e r y d a y w h e n 5 0 0 people in Nanaimo find themselves without jobs, our Forests Minister is quoted in the media saying that there's nothing he can do. He's thrown in the towel again. Hundreds of families have lost their jobs, and the best he can of fer is: "I can't stop bad business practices." Well, the worst business practices in B.C. flow directly from that minister's offices and into our com- munities.

When will that minister do his job and do something — anything — to protect the jobs of forest- dependent communities on the coast of B.C.? Hon. R. Coleman: For the member's information, they're back in court with regards to Harmac right now, and there's been no decision made on Harmac. Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. D. Routley: That's not offering the people of Van- couver Island and the coast anything. Mr. Speaker, 535 people are losing their jobs at Harmac, and the minister knows it — and 251 last week in Mackenzie. One thousand people lost their jobs last week.

Those are big numbers, but when you get down to it, they're ones and twos — one worker, one or two kids, a coach, a volunteer here and there. At the heart of it, it's about hard-working people paying for that minister's mistakes. This Minister of Forests is not a Minister of Forests. He is the new Nero fiddling while the communities of B.C. burn. When will our new Nero put down his fiddle and do something for the forest-dependent communities of B.C.? Hon. R. Coleman: I don't think there's been a government that's had better policies and been more progressive in the forest sector…. Interjections. Mr.

Speaker: Minister, just take your seat. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Continue, Minister. Hon. R. Coleman: I'm as worried about Harmac and those workers as he is. We're trying to find solutions for it with the courts. At the same time, our people are prepared to work with whoever may be a proponent that may want to buy that mill to make sure the fibre supply is there for that mill. We've always done that. We've always managed to get the fibre supply.

The fact of the matter is that on the coast of British Columbia and across this province, this government has invested hundreds of millions of dollars in the forest sector in the last three years. Interjections. Hon. R. Coleman: You know, I think what the members opposite would like us to do is go up and buy the Harmac mill. I don't know what he's asking for. We've always said we'll have the fibre for Harmac, but I'll tell you what. I mean, the member opposite is getting excited and inflamed. I know what he wants us to do. He wants us to do another Skeena Cellulose, which we're not prepared to do.

In actual fact, Mr. Speaker, all you have to do is go back to April 30, 2008, where the Leader of the Oppo- sition said: "You know, the days of bailing out old mills are gone. I'm very clear about that. I've said that publicly." C. Puchmayr: The minister recently announced $25,000 to laid-off forest workers in Prince George so that they can have a meeting. But it's not just Prince George forest workers. It's Campbell River. It's Nanaimo. It's New Westminster. It's all over British Columbia, and the minister won't even formally meet with many of those that are losing their jobs.

Why Prince George, but not New Westminster? When will the minister admit that his ad hoc, knee- jerk approach just isn't working? [1405]

12096 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, MAY 7, 2008 Hon. R. Coleman: The United Steelworkers, which is the union that actually represents forest workers all over the province of British Columbia, asked us to pro- vide the $25,000 to Prince George, and we did. Hon.

Speaker, in British Columbia today there is $5 million for research for forest management and $17 million for forest health, $32.65 million to UBCM for fire threats in communities, $642 million since 2001 for the mountain pine beetle and $300 million in addition to that from the federal government, and another $25 million to Forestry Innovation in order to put money into finding use for the fibre on the coast, to find new markets for the fibre on the coast and to build the fu- ture of forestry in the province of British Columbia. Hundreds of millions of dollars are being invested.

As we do that, we're going to continue to work with forest workers in the provin ce to actually have them transition and be able to help them look to a strong future in forestry in British Columbia. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. Interjection. Mr. Speaker: Member. C. Puchmayr: The minister talks about community transition, but certainly that's not going to keep schools open. That's not going to pay the mortgage. That's not going to replace those valuable jobs in those communities. Transition mone y will not create valu- able jobs in those communities. Those jobs are leaving those communities.

Can the minister explain to the forest workers in a town like Mackenzie why he doesn't have anything for them to keep their pulp mill open at the time when prices of pulp are extremel y high and profitable? Why can't he supply the fibre for that town so that those jobs can remain? Hon. R. Coleman: We can supply the fibre to Mackenzie. We can find the fibre for Mackenzie, but the member should recognize that presently that op- eration is before the courts in receivership and doesn't have a financier that's prepared to fund its operation. That's why we're looking for another purchaser for the mill. N.

Macdonald: The government's forestry policy is a combination of do-nothing, it's a combination of ad hoc, and it's partisan. The minister goes to his cabinet minister friend's community of Fort Nelson, and he gave the mill there a massive break on the cost of logs. It was a massive break. When he's not feeling the heat from colleagues at the cabinet table, he does nothing. Every other com- munity in the province is left with nothing. It's com- pletely inconsistent and politics of the worst kind.

Can other communities now expect the minister to come to their communities and give their mills access to cheap logs or to logs at all? Hon. R. Coleman: I should remind the member that he's got a mill in his community that is, quite frankly, supportive of the softwood lumber deal, which you guys want to abrogate, which you would flush down your own mill on behalf of the policies of your own opposition. It's a sad state when you get up and want to talk about that, but you want to ignore the fact of the great things they've done. So the softwood lumber deal got back….

Millions of dollars came back to British Columbia companies. They can survive this downturn because they got those deposits back. They have a 15 percent tax at the border today when they had a 29 percent duty before, and it went on every dollar of value that went down into the United States. Today that's dropped down with a high-value cap of $500, which is a real benefit for forestry in the province of British Columbia. Hon. Member, let's remember that we have a mar- ket pricing system in the pr ovince of British Columbia in our timber in the areas where we have sawmills, and there is not one in Fort Nels on.

In that case, the market pricing system has seen the price of stumpage come down by 50 percent in the last six quarters. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Member, just wait until you're recognized, please. The member has a supplemental. N. Macdonald: Okay, let's understand this, and let's see if the people of B.C. can understand it. For three years this minister has stood up and said he can do nothing. He watches as the forest industry collapses in this province. [1410] The critic has given him the things that he should be doing in a list again and again and again, and he does nothing.

The only time he does something is if it's somebody who sits beside him or whispers in his ear, and then he goes up and gives him a special deal. That's how it works. The minister should have been doing something three years ago. If he's doing something, it should be for each and every community. So the question is this. Can the minister explain to the people of Castlegar, Kamloops, Campbell River, Nanaimo…? The list of failed mills goes on and on. Can he explain to them why they get nothing, but the Minister of Energy…? His mill gets whatever he wants because he sits beside you, and he sits in cabinet.

How's that for forest policy? Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. R. Coleman: Well, that's just absolute non- sense. It doesn't matter whether it's Merritt or Kam- loops or any community. We sit down with people that

WEDNESDAY, MAY 7, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12097 have issues around fibre on a daily basis in this prov- ince to find a long-term so lution for them. The only thing your critic would like to do is abrogate the soft- wood lumber deal and flush the rest of the industry in the province of British Columbia. On the coast of British Columbia alone, we have the coast recovery plan. We've been successful in moving towards hemlock. We've been successful…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Minister, just take your seat. We are not going to continue if this carries on. Continue, Minister. Hon. R.

Coleman: You know, we have the coast recovery plan — $21 million to transition from old growth to second growth. It promotes the value-added sector where we've invested over a million dollars in B.C. wood in addition to another value-added investment of $1.8 million with FPInnovations, which is actually finding markets for our value-added sector in places around the world. We supported a competitive pulp and paper sector, which is actually working in the province. We're invest- ing in new technology with that sector. We've improved the viability — something they don't like.

We've im- proved the viability of first nation tenures, and we put more wood out there for small operators, which is very important to the future of forestry. PASSENGER SAFETY ON SKYTRAIN M. Farnworth: My question is for the Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General. Six criminals are at large riding SkyTrain with impunity after a savage swarming and beating because of a failure of the security cam system. This has happened six times since 2002. This failure continues. What is the minister responsible for public safety doing to stop these failures? Hon.

J. van Dongen: The province of British Co- lumbia is the first jurisdiction in Canada to have transit police. That force was put in place in 2005. We have 127 armed officers. We also have on SkyTrain 360 SkyTrain attendants. Certainly, videotape evidence is helpful in convict- ing criminals. The videotape system is the jurisdiction and under the management of TransLink. I understand that they will be putting in a new system in July, and that will have a longer running time to help collect evidence. Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. M. Farnworth: Videotape evidence is not just help- ful; it's crucial.

Criminals don't operate on a two-hour loop, but clearly this government does. This govern- ment has known about this issue for two years now. These failures have continued for two years. We have had two years of excuses — conflicting excuses. Again, can the minister tell us why these failures have continued and give a guarantee as to when these failures will cease? [1415] Hon. J. van Dongen: Public safety is a partnership between the police and commun ities and, in this case, TransLink.

I need to inform the members, remind the members, that this government is returning 100 percent of all traffic fines to local police forces, which has resulted in the hiring of significant additional police — 950 additional police officers. I need to remind the members that the deployment of police resources is up to the police. They manage their operations. It is inappropriate for me to interfere in their operations. They manage those resources to the needs in the community. A. Dix: Supplementary to the Minister of Public Safety.

I think those word s, those comments, about fines will be cold comfort to Sheshleen Datt, who is the victim of this assault. The fact of the matter is that TransLink has repeat- edly refused to put a live person at SkyTrain stations when it's in operation and repeatedly refused to live up to its promises to keep security 24-7 at SkyTrain stations. Here's what TransLink says to the travelling public, and I say this to the Minister of Public Safety. They say: "If someone truly needs assistance, they just have to wave to the camera." Clearly, nobody was watching in this case.

In fact, the excuse used by TransLin k is that they taped over this because someone at head office who presumably was watching decided to tape over a six-on-one assault. It's not possible. When will this government take action to ensure that transit riders are safe on our SkyTrain system? Hon. J. van Dongen: As I said, there are now 127 armed and trained police offi cers on the SkyTrain sys- tem. If they feel they need more resources, they would make representation to the TransLink board.

I've also said that TransLink has confirmed in July that they will be implementing new cameras, new video systems, that will ha ve a longer running time. But they will be legally limited to one week, and those cameras will be installed. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. A. Dix: Clearly, the minister isn't listening to con- stituents in Vancouver and along the SkyTrain line — clearly not listening. There are serious concerns. These have been real assaults. The government has taken no steps. TransLink has taken no steps.

I k n o w t h a t t h e M i n i s t e r o f P u b l i c S a f e t y c a n ' t d o anything about a do-nothing Minister of Transportation. I know he can't do anything about that. But he's respon- sible. He's responsible in the cabinet for public safety. Interjections.

12098 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, MAY 7, 2008 Mr. Speaker: Members. A. Dix: We have a Minister of Transportation who finds his way to support more money for the board of directors and fare increases for transit users, but does nothing on the issue of transit safety. When will he intervene to deal with the very seri- ous security issues on TransLink? When will he take steps to ensure that what Sheshleen Datt suffered isn't suffered by other constituen ts in Vancouver-Kingsway and across the transit system? Hon. K.

Falcon: First of all, I'm sure all sides of this House share the concern for that young woman who went through what must have been a most horrifying experience. But for this member opposite to say that this government has done nothing when the member knows that the SkyTrain police complement in the last two years has gone up by a third…. That's 127 officers that now look after that system today. [1420] But let me just give actu ally a more concrete exam- ple of what doing nothing is all about.

Doing nothing is when the member for Vancouver–Mount Pleasant, when she was part of government, flew to London with a bunch of bureaucrats, spent $80,000 to look at a gated system in London and came back and did abso- lutely nothing. What's the difference? This government is going to make sure we've got a gated system on all the SkyTrain stations to make sure that young women can feel safe on SkyTrain throughout the Lower Mainland of British Columbia. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. TENANCY DISPUTE RESOLUTION PROCESS D.

Thorne: When he revised the Residential Ten- ancy Act, the Housing Minister said that if it didn't work, he would fix it. Office closures, downsizing and a phone-in system for dispute resolution have now created a system that is in shambles. Last year June Ross moved into a new apartment and immediately had to move out, due to an infesta- tion of rats. Two failed arbitration hearings later, June Ross was lucky enough to find a lawyer who would work pro bono. She went to Supreme Court and won her appeal, but most renters in B.C. cannot find law- yers who do free work.

I want to ask the Minister for Housing today if he will live up to his promise and do what is necessary to fix this phone-in dispute reso lution process. Or will he continue to rely on the Supreme Court to settle tenancy disputes in British Columbia? Hon. R. Coleman: To respond to increasing de- mand for dispute resolution, we are today adding 32 staff members and opening a call centre in Kelowna. T h a t i s a h u g e i n c r e a s e i n t h e n u m b e r o f s t a f f . W e ' r e training additional dispute resolution officers. We've increased… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Hon. R.

Coleman: …the budget by over $2 million so that we can…. We've streamlined administration to speed up the dispute resolution process. For instance, hearing packets previously available two days after ap- plication are now available to clients within minutes of the application. We have also simplified the application notice forms and put them in plain language. We've made significant im provements to the system and are investing in people to speed up our call times and our response times at the branch. [End of question period.] Notice of Motion COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY TO SIT IN THREE SECTIONS Hon.

M. de Jong: I just want to advise members that I'm tabling today a motion that would provide for the creation of a second committee room for the purpose of referring non-contentious committee stage debate. I'll provide a copy to the Opposition House Leader. In the event that the opposition seek to avail themselves of that option, I'll be pleased to receive that information from them. H. Lali: Hon. Speaker, I seek leave to present a petition. Mr. Speaker: Proceed. Petitions H.

Lali: I have a petition with 662 signatures of residents in the Princeton ar ea who are protesting the cuts to the health care services at the Princeton hospital. My constituents want the Legislative Assembly to keep the ER room open and to reinstate surgical services at the Princeton hospital. N. Simons: I seek leave to make an introduction. Mr. Speaker: Proceed. Introductions by Members N. Simons: I'd like to introduce four people who have all in their own ways contributed to the health and safety of children in this province.

I'd like to intro- duce Warner Adams, executive director of Carrier- Sekani Child and Family Services, and Mary Teegee, program director for Child and Family Services, along

WEDNESDAY, MAY 7, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12099 with Karen Isaac and Lincoln Heaney. Will the House please make them all welcome. R. Hawes: I seek leave to present a petition. Mr. Speaker: Proceed. Petitions R. Hawes: I am presenting a petition from 1,250 peo- ple regarding Grand Street Lodge in Mission, requesting that it be kept open. [1425] Orders of the Day Hon. M. de Jong: I call in this chamber continued second reading debate on Bill 25 and in

Section A, Committee of Supply, for the information of members, continued debate on the estimates of the Ministry of Forests and Range. Second Reading of Bills HEALTH PROFESSIONS (REGULATORY REFORM) AMENDMENT ACT, 2008 (continued) A. Dix: It's good to continue debate on Bill 25, the Health Professions Amendm ent Act, 2008. When we were starting to discuss the bill yesterday, we talked about some of the key issues, particularly around re- tention of health care workers, which I think is a key part of our efforts to deal with health labour shortages and with professional issues.

I wanted to get more into the detail of the bill in this second reading speech — a bill that the opposition supports in principle at second reading — and, in par- ticular, just go through the key clauses of the bill and then go through them in de tail to discuss some of the issues involved. [S. Hammell in the chair.] What the bill intends to do is create, amongst other things, a health professions review board that will assist qualified health care workers or health workers to fully utilize their skills. They're going to set up advisory panels to assist this process.

In addition — and this is in addition on that line of the bill — they're going to attempt to ensure that health professionals who are certified to practise in other Canadian jurisdictions will be welcome to practise in British Columbia and have their credentials recognized. Further, there are proposals with respect to re- stricted licences that will allow internationally trained physicians to practise in their specific areas of qualifi- cation.

To quote from the minister: "A new framework will be developed and implemented to allow Canadian citizens trained outside of Ca nada to practise in British Columbia." So that's one set of elements of this bill. There's another set of elements to this bill that deals with issues of professional transparency, issues that have been raised as a result, in particular, of a number of cases in recent times wher e it would appear that the inconsistent standards by various health professional colleges have kept information that might have been helpful to members of the public in protecting their interests….

Those cases indicated that we had a prob- lem, and this bill attempts to address that problem. This is the second set of issues. Of course, connected to that were a series of throne speech initiatives which are non-legislative but which attempt to address and support the initiative found in the bill. One of the notions of the legislation is a new notion — what we call scope-of-pract ice reform. In a general sense, certainly the opposition supports this, as do many of the people in health care.

The idea is to break down — while protecting, in all cases, the security and protecting patients, we would hope — the historical notion, the historical idea of what you call professional exclusivity so that if a single profession has performed certain services and procedures, by definition other professions cannot perform those services. We've found — and, of course, this has happened over time and is in place over time — that there is con- siderable overlap in responsibilities between doctors and nurses, between nurses and licensed practical nurses and others.

The idea of this kind of reform is to address some of the difficulties and to widen it in such a way that the system is governed by, on the one hand, what you call a scope-of-practice statement — which are descriptions that are non-exclusive — and then within that also have a defined list of very important, maybe more high-risk activities that mu st not be performed by any person. So it's a more mixed system as opposed to a system based on notions of professional exclusivity, which in fact may not be appropriate any longer. [1430] One of the most important areas in Canada which shows….

It's one of the important things proposed by the opposition in the 2005 election. I'll just repeat a little bit of what we said then and how it's certainly consistent with our support for the expansion of the role of nurse practitioners. At that time we proposed to expand the role of nurse practitioners to emergency rooms. "Nurse practitioners will begin work in B.C. in 2005. They bring advanced training that allows them to carry out a broad range of health care services, including diag- nosing, prescribing medications, ordering diagnostic tests and managing common and acute and chronic illnesses.

While experts in community-based primary care and prevention, the NDP will also make sure their skills are utilized in B.C. hospitals to deliver better patient care and take the pressure off existing physicians and nurses." This idea of nurse practitioners is of course not a new one in Canada or even in British Columbia, and I think the idea of promoting it is very much part of virtually every reform of primary health care proposed by all governments in Canada. We're obviously encouraged

12100 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, MAY 7, 2008 to see that role developed with one caveat, which we will talk about in a moment. It's important to talk about it, because I think there have always been suggestions out there that…. This is sometimes the case because the use of nurse practitioners has occurred sometimes in regions and communities where there are doctor shortages. So the notion is that we go to this model simply when the preferred option or the default option isn't available for some reason.

I'm sure the Minister of Health would agree with me that this is not rea lly the right approach — that in fact there is a great deal more that nurse practitioners can do and that this notion that they can only be used when a doctor can't be found is in fact the wrong notion. There was a landmark Canadian study in the early 1970s looking at family prac tices in Burlington, On- tario. What it showed pretty clearly at the time was that the appropriate use of nurse practitioners with the appropriate additional education — and we have out- standing nurse practitioners in British Columbia….

They did this in one family practice, which was kind of overwhelmed, in Burlington . This is dating back to the 1970s. In that case, the nu rse practitioners took care of 67 percent of patient visits. What all of the recent research has shown and con- firmed — this goes to this idea and this broader notion of scope-of-practice reform, which is contained in this legislation and in other actions by this and other gov- ernments — is that nurse practitioners can do more. They can work very well in providing a wide range of services. In fact, they do so now, and they can do more.

For example, there are studies all over the health care system, and they confir m this. I think what they also confirm — and it's very interesting. These two studies are American studies, one in the Journal of the American Medical Association and the other in the Ameri- can Journal of Public Health .

The first is called "Primary Care Outcomes in Patients Treated by Nurse Practitio- ners or Physicians." The other, in the American Journal of Public Health, issue 72, if people ar e looking at that, is by Ramsey: "Physicians and Nurse Practitioners: Do They Perform Equivalent Care?" What these studies show pretty clearly is that espe- cially for minor injuries and illnesses requiring care on the day in question, patien ts who see nurse practitio- ners do as well — and in some cases better, because in some cases they get more attention — as patients visit- ing doctors.

The research also showed — and I think this is important — that they're just as healthy in the six months following the treatment. This idea is one thing that we have to work to break down. This is particularly true in the area — which I know something about as a patient, as we spoke to on the previous bill — of issues of chronic disease. It's particularly true in that area, including issues of hyper- tension, diabetes, asthma and other chronic diseases. What they show is that sometimes patients respond better to nurse practitioners in those areas than they do to physicians.

This isn't because physicians do a bad job, but it's because in some respects — and this is what the evidence shows — nurse practitioners sometimes tend to ask more questions. And in some cases, al- though of course this isn't always the case, they may be prepared to spend slightly longer with patients, answer more questions and be able to offer more options to patients. [1435] Here's an important study. It's the study from the American Journal of Public Health. What the study did was look at two groups, and 99 percent said that they would be prepared to see a nurse practitioner again.

What that indi- cates to me — and I know the minister would support this — is that the increased use of nurse practitioners in the health care system, given their availability, is a good idea. In fact, those people th at use nurse practitioners seem to validate that in a rather dramatic way; 99 per- cent is a pretty high test score for anybody, I would suggest. Certainly, what it indicates is that the work done by nurse practitioners is outstanding.

That's an example of that part of the legislation, this idea that in fact there are often overlaps and that the system, within careful review — and this is what the intention of the legislation is to provide — should be- come more flexible in this regard. That is what, hope- fully, the various advisory panels and review boards will help to facilitate as well. Obviously, one of the ques tions that is raised and dealt with by the legislation is the issue, in addition to that, of doctor shortages.

Of course, the member for Yale-Lillooet knows the issues and its implications for health care in Princeton at the moment. I think those issues are pretty significant. We've heard — and I know the member for Kamloops– North Thompson would know this — of the challenges that the community of Clearwater is going through with respect to attracting doctors to deal with their issues. These are very significant problems for communities. They can indeed sometimes affect the very economic life of rural communities.

In a sense, one of the reasons why people stay in communities — this is particularly true of seniors — is access to a family doctor and to medical services. It's one of the challenges for communities when services, as they have been quite frequently under this government but not exclusively under this govern- ment, are centralized. So what you have when services are centralized, it seems to me , is a taking away of the very supports that doctors, nurses and other health professionals — but in this case particularly doctors — want to see. In most jurisdictions — and this includes British Columbia….

We have to, clearly, engage in more of this in terms of rural doctor shortages. Most of the Ca- nadian provinces have various incentive programs to address and bring doctors to rural and remote areas. This is the case, but the interesting part of that…. There are lots of good ideas in this area, some of which have been implemented and some of which haven't — ideas like forgiving student loans, ideas such as financial incentives. But what the evidence also shows — and this is a real challenge for policy-makers — i s t h a t i t ' s n o t j u s t

WEDNESDAY, MAY 7, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12101 an issue of financial incentives. We all know this be- cause we all know our family doctor and other doctors. You know that doctors often or for the most part don't d o w h a t t h e y d o f o r m o n e y . T h e y h a v e m a n y o p t i o n s in terms of finding successful remuneration. Often the incentive programs, things such as signing bonuses….

There was a recent study in Quebec called "Evaluation des Mesures Incitatives Visant l'amélioration de la Répartition Géographique des Médecins au Quebec," which essentially looked at some of the incentive pro- grams used in that province in terms of bringing doctors to rural areas. What they found is that, for example, forgiveness of student loans ranked 22nd ou t of 23 factors. In that case, signing bonuses ranked 21st out of 24. They found that incentive programs won' t work alone. They need to go hand in hand with modern facilities and high- quality infrastructure. That's what the studies have shown.

I think what that shows to all of u s is tha t when we centralize ser- vices…. If we take services out of a community such as Princeton, it becomes more difficult for a doctor to go in there or want to go in there. [1440] In addition, obviously, lifestyle issues become an increasingly important part of the equation. But the very cuts that are sometimes made in the centralization of a health care system tend to mitigate the success of programs to attract rural do ctors to communities. It's something that I think we have to remember when we're closing down regional hospitals and centralizing services.

This has a real impact, I would argue, on our ability to attract doctors. That having been said, some of the measures in this legislation, hopefully, will assist, in particular — and we hope in combination with the expansion of residency and access to residency for foreign-trained doctors — in increasing the number of do ctors who are eligible to come here. Of course, there's always this sort of archetypal story of a doctor who is trained and is needed, who is doing something other than practising medicine — the archetypal story of driving a cab, for example.

Not that that isn't something extremel y valuable to do. But it's often very frustrating for a health professional and for a community in need of doctors when they hear such stories.

That's why we support the ideas, first of all, of a restricted licence to allow physicians to practise in spe- cific areas of qualifications; increased access, clearly, to residencies, which is important to allow foreign-trained doctors to meet, if they re quire, Canadian standards; and a more reasonable approach to cutting through the red tape that is often put in place — often for legitimate reasons of professional quality control, but which ends up being a deterrent to people coming and practising in British Columbia and in other jurisdictions.

We are hopeful that this will have the effect of ad- dressing some of these issues of doctor shortage. With respect to that, I think that the measures on the bill — and I know my friend from Surrey-Newton will speak on this question as well — come some of the way to responding to that problem, and we are happy to sup- port those measures. Certainly if you ask Br itish Columbians, hon.

Speaker, I think what they'd say is that they would, under most circumstances, support all efforts to ensure that while quality standards are maintained — and I think that's the intention in this case — people who are qualified to practise, be they doctors or nurses or other health professionals, be able to practise in British Co- lumbia. That will require, beyond legislative action, a lot of work to make that happen.

But in saying that, we sh ouldn't forget that these answers to these questions, which is increasing supply, require a public health care system that is appropri- ately funded, appropriately supported in communities across British Columbia and that provides health care where and when you need it. It's a reasonable place to work. We discussed this yesterday. One of the challenges we have, especially on the question of nursing shortage , is not just the issue of recruitment but the issue of retention in the context where hospitals are often not given the support they need.

I spoke yesterday in this House about the situa- tion in New Westminster, but it really could be about the situation in Kamloops, Kelowna, Prince George, Vernon, Nanaimo, Victoria or any of the other commu- nities that I have visited as opposition Health critic. I think this is a key point that we have to consider as we go forward. It's certainly a key point for the B.C. Nurses Union on these broad issues of scope of practice that we hope to address, these systemwide issues of scope of practice.

W h a t m a n y n u r s e s s a y t o m e i s t h a t t h e y v e r y m u c h support efforts to expand their scope of practice, but they often look at them with concern because they feel — I think justifiably, and probably the Minister of Health would agree with this — that what it will mean, when their workload is already unacceptable, is merely a piling on of more work that will make their position less and less sustainable. [1445] I'll just quote from a nurse in Victoria who said that going home at the end of the day feeling that they haven't done what they ought to have been doing is common, that they don't have time to talk to patients and that nurses are fully capable — as long as there is enough time and manpower — t o d o m o r e t o i n f a c t expand the scope of practice to do things such as suturing, allergy testing, local anaesthesia and cardiac stress test- ing.

All of these are things that nurses are prepared to do, but they need to be given the opportunity to do the extraordinary work that they were trained to do. Instead, what they say to me — and this is typical…. In this case what the nurse Victoria McCallum says is: "To free up time, nurses need to stop answering phones, doing paperwork, folding laundry and running around finding equipment." The minister has recently visited Royal Columbian Hospital, and I've recently visited Royal Columbian Hospital. What they tell me is that they go in early to

12102 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, MAY 7, 2008 try and secure linen privately and in advance because there's never enough linen, and they're always racing around. So the cuts to other services have made it very diffi- cult for nurses to envision an expansion of the scope of practice. They clearly support it, and good evidence- based practice argues that nurses can do more. We have to support that, because I think it's the right deci- sion for a public health care system. But in order to make it work on the ground for nurses, we have to provide them with the support they need.

It seems to me that one of the key issues for nurses is, for example, better security and safety in hospitals. Many nurses feel, especially since the privatization of those services — this is what they say — that their se- curity has gotten worse, that cleaning has gotten worse, that the quality of food has gotten worse. They feel they have to go around the halls and not look people in the eye because people have so many problems with the support services that if they meet up with someone, they will not be able to make it through their rounds.

So it takes more, it seems to me, than expanding the scope of practice, which is an excellent idea. But if it's not combined with efforts to in fact ensure that nurses are not overwhelmed with these other tasks outside of their scope of practice, if you will, it will not or cannot succeed. I think that's a key question — not just what happens in the Legislature or in the legislation but how that jibes with the reality that nurses feel on the ground. That same circumstance and view are, I think, shared by many health sciences professionals. Health sciences professionals are high ly trained.

They provide critical services to people in every community in Brit- ish Columbia — medical lab technologists, diagnostic imaging, respiratory therap ists, occupational thera- pists, physiotherapists. That association — the Health Sciences Association — represents pharmacists and other professional groups. What they are saying is that there are profound shortages. Unlike other prof essions, principally doctors and nurses, very little has been done in their area.

So we're seeing and running into extraordinarily serious shortfalls that are having an effect — I think a profound effect — on the ability of those health professionals to do their job. We need more of them. We need to support more of them. Right now there are not — in terms of the Ministry of Advanced Education or the Ministry of Health — plans to address what is a growing catastro- phic shortfall in those prof essions. We all know this. Everybody in this House knows that proper diagnosis is essential for patient care.

If we don't have the lab and the medical imaging technologists to provide the tests, run the tests and get the tests done, then treatment is delayed. The conse- quence of treatment being de layed is that the entire system gets backed up. We're going to go through the numbers because the numbers are quite dramatic . There are reports from both the Vancouver Coastal Health Authority and the Fraser Health Authority. Just to put them in context, just to show what a significant shortfall there is in these areas…. Those professionals de al in diagnostic, clinical and rehabilitation.

Those are the basic areas of what they do. [1450] Medical technologists: a shortfall by 2015, accord- ing to the Vancouver Coastal Health Authority, of 85 percent. Radiation technologi sts: 18 percent shortfall. Diagnostic stenographers: 72 percent shortfall. In those two areas combined: a 58 percent shortfall. The Fraser Health Authority did its own study, its own report — again, not a report by the opposition — that said that B.C. will ne ed an additional 1,154 full- time-equivalents in diagno stic imaging alone by 2015. That was their estimate.

This is not an area where we've added sufficient spaces or really very many spaces at all. BCIT is the only institution in the province that has a diagnostic imaging program, and they'r e going to train only 600 additional technologists by 2015. Assuming all of them come into the system in B.C., that's a shortfall, accord- ing to the Fraser Health Auth ority, just in that area alone of 554 imaging jobs, or people to do the jobs we absolutely need to get done in the health care system. The Fraser Health Authority reports that there are 165 vacancies right now in six health sciences profes- sions.

I think this is an area that we have to get at and get to. I know that the Premier and the Minister of Health have met with representatives of the Health Sciences Association, but clearly we have not done enough in spite of the fact that these jobs are very rewarding. They're very important positions, and they're very challenging positions.

I think we need to make a more significant effort to invest to provide the staff we need in this area, be they physiotherapists or diagnostic imaging specialists or others, to ensure that the health care sys- tem not in some distant time in the future but in the short-range future has sufficient staff to do the job. Look at what we're talking about in terms of physiotherapists. Just to give you a sense, the Interior Health Authority — let's not just talk about the Fraser Health Authority — needs to hire 44 physiotherapists right now to address current service levels.

Well, the only institution in B.C. that trains physio- therapists — and they had serious problems last year, as the minister will know — accepts only 40 students per year in British Columbia. What we have are efforts and investments on the doctors-and-nurses front but insuffi- cient efforts — and we have to do significantly better — in dealing with the issues of health sciences professionals.

They will tell you that a plan focused exclusively on doctors and nurses, which ignores the important role of health sciences professionals but also ignores the im- portant role played in the system by LPNs and care aides and others, will unfortunately lead to serious issues in the not too distant future — in fact, serious issues now. I think this has shown a bit of a disconnect between the Ministry of Heal th, which surely sees all this stuff coming, sees these issues coming…. We often say — and the minister often says, and others often say — that it takes ten years to train a

WEDNESDAY, MAY 7, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12103 doctor, and so on. It takes two to six years to train health sciences professionals in these areas. We have to get going now. We have to increase the spaces now to deal with th e situation, or the system that we have set up, which depends on the extraordi- nary work done by health sc iences professionals, will in fact break down. It is a concern that I know is shared by all people around this chamber, but it's one we have to address now. It's what puts the meat on the bones, if you will, of this legislation.

We've seen scant increases in the number of spaces for health sciences professionals, certainly nothing to address the growing demand . There have been small increases — one in Prince George and a small increase at BCIT last year — but nothing that will address this critical long-term shortage. I think that as legislators, we need to both promote these professions — because they are extraordinary career opportunities for people if they want to take on these jobs — and provide the spaces necessary to allow health authorities and others to have the health human resources that they need in the future.

That means training more technologists, stenographers, physio- therapists, speech pathologists, pharmacists and others. [1455] That is a key area, I think, of the health human resources picture that we are not succeeding at. We are not making progress at it right now, or at least nothing like the progress we need to make in order to address a crisis. It's kind of a daily crisis for people.

I meet with health sciences professionals all the time who tell me about their discouragement, their real discouragement, at their sheer workload, the volume of overtime that they have to do, and that there seems to be no end in sight. Positions are left unfilled. This is a real crisis. It's not a crisis exclusive to this government. It's a crisis in other jurisdictions, but it's one that, if we don't address it, is going to have the effect of making all of our health care system less effective in the coming years. In fact, we're facing those stresses now. We talked about this a little bit yesterday.

We talked about the government's key initiative in health human resources — we'll be talking about this more when we get to the next bill on the

schedule — which is its impact on the shortages of care aides, LPNs and others in the system, many of whom are represented not just by the Hospital Employees Union but others and who play a critical role in our system. Many of them, of course, are not represented because of the efforts of this government to take away their represen- t a t i o n a s w e l l a s t h e i r j o b s a n d , i n m a n y c a s e s , t h e i r salaries.

I think what that shows, even before the Supreme Court of Canada said that what the government had done was illegal in what it did to health care workers and that three sections of Bill 29 were illegal…. Even before that happened, the market was saying to the government that their policy of slashing wages and privatization was failing. The member for Nanaimo knows very well about what's happening at Nanaimo Seniors Village, where we've seen a consistent pattern of using mass layoffs to try and drive down wages, and the disruption that that means to people.

A strictly elitist approach to health human resources fails on that, because in the current marketplace the work done by LPNs, care aides and other health care workers is actually extraord inarily valuable. They, in this time, have market power. All that is left — often to the government's financial supporters, who own some of these facilities — is to do these mass layoffs, which are disruptive for everyone. They're sure disruptive for seniors. But what they also do is what we absolutely can't allow to happen, which is the message they send to people. The message they send is: don't become a care aide.

It is absolutely vital to our health care system. The work they do on a daily ba sis is extraordinarily per- sonal. We had a message sent by an entire government, 77 MLAs — well, 76 actually, because one member on the government side, the current member for Peace River South, opposed the legislation — that essentially this work may be valuable, but don't do it. According not to me but the Vancouver Coastal Health Authority, there is a dramatic shortage that they're facing by 2015 in care aides. So it takes more than legislation, I suggest.

There's also a shortage, ac- cording to the Vancouver Coastal Health Authority and the Fraser Health Authority, of LPNs. There's a shortage in those two categories. It seems to me that's partly because of efforts to cut the salaries and also to diminish the value of the labour that is done.

If we're going to address these health human re- sources issues, we have to provide the legislative frame- work — hopefully, what we're doing today will help assist in that; we're certainly hopeful that it will — but also provide the support and encouragement to people and in a sense send the message that this is extraordinary w o r k . I t ' s w o r k t h a t i s v a l u e d b y s o c i e t y . W e d o n ' t s a y that the work done by doctors is great, but the work done by care aides doesn't have value. We say that they both have value, because we know that.

When we visit any care home in British Columbia, the quality of care — how a senior feels in that care home — is often, on a daily basis, more dependent on t h e w o r k d o n e b y a c a r e a i d e . S o t h e d e c i s i o n o n t h e government's part, which I think was extremely wrong-headed, to devalue that work was wrong. [1500] If we're going to addres s these broad health human resources questions, it seems to me that we've got to reverse that message. We've got to send a different message that we believe that people in the health care system can actually do more.

We have an expectation that people should be fully able to utilize their training, be they doctors or nurses or others in the health care system. But we also have to say, I think, very clearly that all of the work is valued. I think what has happened with care aides and LPNs in particular in the last few years is that the gov- ernment's position, which sent a message…. You can't

12104 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, MAY 7, 2008 send a stronger message than a piece of legislation that targets two groups and deva lues their work. That's a pretty strong message to send. We can't have that any longer in British Columbia. We need to do the reverse. We need to encourage people to do that important work in our public health care system. It may seem like a long shot, but I hope that the government has learned from its mistakes in this regard.

Equally — and this is dealt with by the provisions of this legislation in part and by the government's an- nouncements in its throne speech, which are connected to these — the changes in scope of practice for ambulance paramedics…. Again, one could be very supportive of an expanded role. But what ambulance paramedics are tell- ing us is that when they raise issues around their work or the challenges of recruitment in the context of a $2-an- hour wage, in some cases…. It's not really a wage. It's a per diem or a small stipend. That isn't good enough to provide the recruitment opportunities.

The government rejects that. They take all of those issues off the table. They say the union is collective bargaining when it does that. The changes that the government proposes would allow ambulance para- medics to diagnose and releas e, rather than transfer to hospitals, in many cases — so increase their responsi- bilities. There's a concern on their part — a legitimate concern, I think — that the intention of this isn't a broader care but to limit access to health care and to limit transfers to hospital and therefore be a cost con- tainment measure.

I don't think it needs to be strictly a matter of that, but what it requires with it is addressing enhanced training opportunities and providing an adequate sup- port and wages for ambulance paramedics. We've raised in this House the st ories and the issues in com- munities such as Alexis Creek and others. There are stories from around British Columbia, including the urban areas, of ambulance paramedics under pressure to meet targets that are in creasingly on paper but not really vested in reality. Ambulance paramedics feel, for example, that they haven't been consulted in this regard.

The changes aren't in place now, so that's fine. They need to be con- sulted, obviously, and the regulations would have to be prepared. I think that without, ag ain in this case, the re- sources and training and support and the commitment that this isn't just an issue of limiting access to health care choices we could be supportive of this, but it re- quires all of those resource issues. It's not a simple mat- ter of saying: "Ambulance paramedics can do more, but they're already overstretched and overburdened, so they'll just do more on top of that." This is an area….

The increased authority for ambulance paramedics in this case would have to be accompanied by all those other tools for ambulance paramedics to properly do that, or you'd be in a very serious situation. Of course, there are significant liabil- ity issues above that that ambulance paramedics face. So that's another example of where expanding the scope of practice may well be a good thing, but it certainly requires, in the case of ambulance paramed- ics, a greater commitment to their work than the government has shown in recent years.

Equally, expanding the roles of midwives, some- thing that the NDP governme nt previously did…. You look at studies of the work of midwives. Certainly, the NDP government in the 1990s was innovative in this regard. The major North American study of the work of midwives showed that 98.7 percent of mothers…. I won't round that up. I'll just say 98.7 percent. But if you were to round that up, 99 percent of mothers who used a midwife would choose a midwife for the birth of their next child. [1505] That's a pretty impressive satisfaction rate for mid- wives.

So I think that the in novations that it brought in and ensuring, in fact…. I'll ju st quote from the national society representing obstetricians in Canada. I'll quote from a policy statement from 2003, which you can find, if you're checking this at home, in the Journal of Obstetrics and Gynaecology Canada . What did they say?

They said: "The integration of midwifery into the obstetrical health care team is fostering excellence in maternity care for Canadian women and their families." Clearly, following up on the innovations of the pre- vious government and potent ially expanding the role and the responsibilities of midwives and promoting the use of midwives in our system is a good idea. It's an evidence-based idea, and expanding on that effort — on which, of course, the NDP government in the past took the lead — seems to me to be an excellent idea.

Having dealt with some of those issues, which are very important in this debate, we want to talk about the issue of transparency. Th is was a case, I think it's fair to say — I think the minister would agree; he even mentioned it, I think, in his scrum on the legislation — where the role of the media in this regard, raising issues, played a critical role in seeing this come forward — in particular reports by journalists for the Victoria Times Colonist , Lindsay Kines and Jeff Rud, who I think has left the Times Colonist but is of course an outstanding journalist.

What they showed in many cases, be they a case of "a pair of Vancouver Island chiropractors, each facing multiple counts of sexual assault, continue to practise under the condition that they see female patients in the presence of a chaperone. The presence of the chaperone must be documented" — in that case — "and those re- cords are checked by the colle ge on a regular basis…." But here was the kicker. The chiropractors were under no obligation to notify patien ts why they are practising under those circumstances.

What happened — and I think it's why the legisla- tion is useful — i s t h a t i n t h e d i f f e r e n t h e a l t h p r o f e s - sions…. Some had on-line registries; some did not. The different health professions, even though they all per- form critical work, all had di fferent standards. Clearly, in terms of transparency an d accountability, the idea would be to ensure that a public right to know — which is necessary in these cases, which is I think cen- tral — is in place and also, on top of the idea of the

WEDNESDAY, MAY 7, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12105 public right to know, a consistency in standards. We shouldn't have some colleges being significantly more transparent than others. Hopefully, the effect of these changes will be to ensure that that situation is properly dealt with.

I think it's critical to the successful practice of all the medical professions, be they chiropractors — and I didn't cite that case to single them out in particular — or physi- cians or whatever profession you would like to note, that the idea of public confidence, the sense that the public can have access to information and know when they're choosing a chiropra ctor or choosing another health profession, that the public would have a reason- able expectation to be able to know if there were issues regarding that professional…. I think it is an important one.

It will build, I would argue, public confidence in the professions, not take it away. That aspect of the bill I think we'll deal with in more detail at committee stage. To go through the min- ister's thoughts on that part of the bill would be useful, and useful for the professions. On that question, we are generally supportive of those proposals, especially here at the second reading debate on principle. These are critical issues for our health care system that we're discussing today, and I know other members will take up some of those issues.

We live in a time where many people in British Columbia have difficult access to primary health care, and it's a critical issue. I'm going through it now; everybody's going through it. Many people are going through it, particularly peo- ple who are, because of income level in some cases or economic circumstance in most cases, unable to find a family doctor. People who move around a lot and aren't able to maintain stable places of residence are in this position. I think these are issues that matter to people. [1510] Now, for some people….

We saw this recently with the proposal of the False Creek Surgical Centre to sort of take advantage of this situation. They saw a shortage of family doctors, and they saw a business opportunity. I think most people would argue that instead of going to a community that needed family doctors, setting up a business opportunity to try and have people pay for primary care isn't the right course. Both myself and, I believe, the minister spoke ou t on that issue. I think that if you look at that situation, that's their response to it, and that's sometimes the response of for-profit health care.

I think the truth of the matter is that a strong public health care system supported with adequate resources, combined with legislation that's flexible and can allow people to come into the system; a training program that doesn't just focus on some professions but looks at all of the needs of all of the professions, be they repre- sented by unions or profes sional groups or whatever; and a strategy that looks at all of them and doesn't focus on some are what we need in British Columbia.

It's one of the reasons why, in our positive ap- proach to this debate, we will be supporting this legislation at second reading. Unlike the government, no matter where ideas come from, if they're good ideas, w e s u p p o r t t h e m o n t h i s s i d e o f t h e H o u s e . I f t h e y ' r e ideas that will improve health care for our constituents, w e s u p p o r t t h e m o n t h i s s i d e o f t h e H o u s e . T h a t ' s a contrary position to the ideological approach we often see across the way. We know people who could benefit from the work of nurse practitioners.

We know people who need a family doctor. We know doctors who haven't been able to get certified and should get certified in British Columbia. We know health care workers whose work was demeaned and the impact that that had on our health care system. Every day we meet health sciences professionals who struggle to meet the increasingly unreasonable demands on their work who are saying: "Where's the plan to address our issues?" We know these people.

We think this might be a small contributor to that, and we'll support it, but what's required, as well, is a commitment to public health care that, sadly, we fre- quently don't see from this government. When you brag about going from second to seventh place in sup- porting health care, most people would say you're on the wrong track. We need to get back on the right track with public health care. We will support good ideas wherever they come from, and our support for this legislation is con- sistent with that principle. Our party founded public health care in this province .

We know that addressing these health human resources will help ensure that the next generation will have access to that. What is also required…. A second element is re- quired; that is, a government that truly believes that public health care is central to British Columbia life and deserves commitment and support. That's what we need. That's what we'll be campaigning on, going for- ward between now and the election. We think that's the difference between us and them. It's not that we have all the ideas. It's not that they don't have any good ideas. When they come up with one, we'll support it.

I re member saying, when the trans fat ban, which was an idea that was promoted, as you recall, and put on the political agenda by NDP Member of Parliament Pat Martin…. When the Premier came forward and said, "We want to do a trans fat ban," what did I say? I said: "Even the Premier finds an acorn sometimes." That's what I said. An Hon. Member: You didn't raise it once in here. Not once. A. Dix: So the minister…. When the member for Nanaimo introduced private member's legislation in this House…. The member for Nanaimo — the minister will remember that. It was with respect to smoking in cars. Interjection. A.

Dix: Oh, we'll talk about trans fats. Three years of promotion from the NDP to get the attention of this government to that issue, and finally, we got their attention. We're very pleased with that.

12106 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, MAY 7, 2008 But we believe in health care where, to use the Premier's term — one that he's since abandoned, one that he's buried in his policy backyard…. We believe, unlike the government, in health care where and when you need it. That's what we believe in. That's not what they believe in. That's why we're supporting good ideas wherever they come from. That's why we're sup- porting this legislation, and we will continue to fight to ensure that public health care is there for the next gen- eration and the generation after that and the generation after that. [1515] H.

Bains: I am indeed also honoured to speak on this issue, Bill 25. I think it goes quite a way toward dealing with some of the issues that we face in health care today. I think one thing that is on our citizens' minds on a constant basis is whether they will receive health care and whether health care will be accessible to them when they need it. The minister, for whatever it is worth, brought a number of bills here in order to fix some of those prob- lems. We on this side have examined all those bills, as we are doing with this bill. I think some of them don't make sense at all.

I think that's a waste of time, and we have said that in this House. There are others that we want to talk about. I think they have some elements in those bills that we can support because they do go towards dealing with the issues that we have in the delivery of health care in this province. One of the areas that I wa nt to talk about is the accreditation of the foreign-trained professionals, es- pecially the medicare professionals. I've been following this for a number of years now. There are a number of activists and organizations who actually have been bringing this issue to the fo refront.

They are trying to bring awareness — organizations such as Capacity B.C. and people like Patrick Cody and Priti Shaw. I want to thank them for bringing this issue, having a debate over this issue and bringing the details about how far and how deeply the problem exists. I think we have heard…. The member for Vancouver- Kingsway has said and many h a v e s a i d b e f o r e t h a t we have seen fully qualified doctors driving taxis or working in the construction industry.

It's not that those occupations are not worthy of being in there, but I think these professionals wh o actually took training and invested a lot in their professions wanted to work in those areas. They couldn't because there was no process in the province for them to get their credentials recognized so that they could come and help in their area of choice and help the people of this province at the same time. We've seen, I know, some cases of people with PhD degrees in marine sciences and in medical sciences. They are not working in the field that they chose and have expertise in.

When that happens, you know what happens? They suffer; they lose. The province loses, and overall, the patients of this province lose. We have seen the long lineups at th e ER. We have seen long lineups trying to get in and get some of the MRI or other diagnostic tests done. The reason — and the minister has said this many times — is that we don't have enough professionals in that particular area. Well, guess what. When that was going on, for the last seven years nothing was done by this minister, the minister before him or by this gov- ernment.

Finally, I say that there is a small step in the right direction in Bill 25 to deal with this issue. Now, I will be waiting, going into the next stage of this bill's de- bate, when we question the minister clause by clause, to see how this will be unfolding and how, actually, it will be helping those profe ssionals who are anxious to get into the field of their ch oice but can't because of the barriers and the obstacles that they face. So I think that's where I will wait; I will wait for the details. We have also heard a very famous case where a world-renowned doctor, a specialist, came to teach at UBC.

He taught and trained our doctors, but he was not allowed to practise in B.C. I mean, that's how bad the situation was. [1520] I know the Attorney General hears all those issues from the community all the time. I know that he also is aware and that he wants to do something about this. I'm not so sure until we see the final details and the next stage of the debate. I think we'll find out how far this goes to deal with the issue. I know Ontario has actually taken the lead by bringing in legislation. Bill 124 was brought in just to deal with these issues, and not only to talk about the health care professionals.

That bill dealt with and deals with professionals in all area s. It deals with how those professionals' credentials are going to be recognized, and similar to what this bill talks about — having an overview board to oversee the registration and accredi- tation process going through — there is a fairness commissioner that has been appointed by Ontario under that bill. That commissioner actua lly looks and oversees how those professional organizations will bring about changes that are required under the Bill 124. So it's an ongoing thing.

It doesn't deal with only one profession; it deals with all of the prof essions. I think that's where we need to go in order to deal with all of the issues that we face in the area of foreign-trained professionals. I have seen and I have heard many people — I'm sure the Attorney General and the many other members who live in the Lower Mainland have heard, walking down the street and you come across…. Hardly a day goes by when you don't come across somebody, and sometimes they use very harsh language about how we treat these foreign professional s. Many call it a fraud.

I've heard it, and I'm sure other people have heard it. I think why they call it a fraud is because the Cana- dian government and B.C. government representatives go all across the globe trying to promote and ask those professionals in those countries to come and practise in this country and this provin ce. But as soon as they come in and land at the airport, they start to face the

WEDNESDAY, MAY 7, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12107 reality that their credentials, which they once were told are needed in this province and this country, are no longer good enough. I think the journey of painfully establishing them- selves in this province starts right there. No wonder that we have doctors and other professionals doing other jobs that they're forced to do but don't want to. They want to stay in their own profession. I think that's why people call it a fraud.

No wonder some people have said that if you wanted to have a heart attack in the province of British Columbia, it's safer, actually, to do it in a taxi in Vancouver some- place rather than a block away from Surrey Memorial Hospital where…. You know, trying to get into the Surrey Memorial Hospital, there's a six- to seven-hour wait trying to go through the system. You know how the nurses, doctors and other health care professionals in Surrey Memorial Hospital are overworked, overloaded with very few resources, thanks to this minister and thanks to this government. So I think that's what we need to….

I think this bill actually goes in a small way…. Interjections. H. Bains: I don't think the minister of small revenue likes to hear the truth. Interjections. H. Bains: Small Business and Revenue — I correct myself. You know, maybe what I said inadvertently fit the minister, but I wouldn't go there. I think the Minister of Small Business and Revenue doesn't want to hear the truth. I invite that minister. I invite the Minister of Health to come to Surrey for one hour. Come to Surrey for one hour, and then walk with me and stay in the emergency ward for one hour.

Stay in there for one hour, and then see with your own eyes the experiences and the pains that the patients have to go through trying to get the very basic health care services that they deserve and need. [1525] That's all it takes. Come down to Surrey and walk with me on the streets of Surrey. Walk with me on 72nd Avenue. Walk with me in front of the Sikh tem- ple. Maybe we should go and visit. Maybe there is a time to atone for your sins, and then they'll be given the opportunity. Interjections. Deputy Speaker: Members, order, please. H. Bains: I think we need to get back to the bill.

I was actually distracted by the Minister of Small Busi- ness and Revenue, who didn't want to hear the truth. Let's talk about Bill 25. I want to talk about the area of shortages in health care professionals. I think if we do it right, this bill probably will deal with some of the issues that are faced by us, and I think we need to also talk about why we are at the situation that we are today. Why is there a shortage of health care profes- sionals? There have been seven years where we have seen that this government has shown nothing but disrespect and contempt for health care workers, and if you….

I think the Minister of Small Business and Revenue would like to hear this as well. This is another fact. Bill 29 was brought in. You know, when you see thousands of hard-working health care professionals…. They were told, "Your services are no longer needed because we want to bring in our friends," who will come in and make profits at the ex- pense of those workers' wages. They were let go. Many of them, actually, were not allowed to get hired again by the contractor, because the instructions to those folks were: "Well, if they come back, they probably will bring a union in." That's how badly they were treated.

When you treat your employees, your workers, with disrespect the way it was done by that government, you get the desired results. It means that those professionals will stay away, and they st ayed away. They stayed away, and now we see all kinds of shortages. I also want to talk about those who stayed away and those who came here because we told them that we needed their services and that we needed their skills, because we need them. We have a shortage of those. But let me talk about the ot her area that hasn't been talked about so far.

We have, probably, thousands of Canadian-born students who can not get spaces for the training that they need in the health care professions, whether they want to be doctors or nurses. They could not go through the universities here because no spaces were available. They end up in foreign countries. My daughter, along with her friend, after waiting one year, could not get into their chosen profession at UBC or any other university here in the province. They ended up going to Europe to get the training. Now they will be incurring hundreds of thousands of debt.

If that isn't bad enough, wh en they come back, they will be told: "Your

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0507pm 07
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0507pm 07
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	3fe031b2f1e85aa12edbf0d82fd83b47d0d6a9de

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