Volume 1 PROVINCE OF NEWFOUNDLAND THIRTY-SIXTH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND 1st Session VERBATIM REPORT Tuesday, April 25, 1972 SPEAKER: THE HONOURABLE JAMES IVJ. RUSSELL Number 3

April 25, 1972 The House met at 3 p.m. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. Tape No. 47 SERGEANT-AT-ARMS: Mr. Speaker, His Honour the Administrator has arrived. MR. SPEAKER: Admit His Honour the Administrator. It is my agreeable duty on behalf of Her Majesty's dutiful and loyal subjects, her faithful commons in Newfoundland to present to Your Honour bills for the Appropriation of Supplementary and Interim Supply granted in the present Session.

A bill, "An Act For Granting To Her Majesty Certain Sums Of Money For Defraying Certain Expenses Of The Public Service For The Financial Year Ending The Thirty First Day Of March, One Thousand Nine Hundred and Seventy-Two And For Other Purposes Relating To The Public Service." A bill, "An Act For Granting To Her Majesty Certain Sums Of Money For Defraying Certain Expenses Of The Public Service For The Financial Year Ending The Thirty-First Day Of March, One Thousand Nine Hundred and Seventy-Three And For Other Purposes Relating To The Public Service." HIS HONOUR, THE HONOURABLE R.S.

FURLONG, M.B.E., ADMINISTRATOR: In Her Majesty's Name,! thank her loyal subjects. I accept their benevolence and assent to this Bill. In Her Majesty's Name, I thank her loyal subjects. I accept their benevolence and assent to this Bill. His Honour, the Administrator left the Assem~ly ChHmber. Mr. Speaker took the Chair. MR. SPEAKER: Members of the bon. House before we proceed it is a great pleasure for me on behalf of the bon. House to welcome to the galleries today the Mayor of Greenspond, His Worship, William Burton and three of his councillors. It is a great pleasure also 114 JM- 1

April 25, 1972 Tape 47 JM- 2 MR. SPEAKER: to welcome approximately seven~-five grade eight students from the Clarenvill.e Junior High School with their principal, Mr. Clifford Forward and any other teachers there might be ac companying them. Indeed if there are other guests whom we have omitted you are cordially welcome and I hope that your visit will be very informative and educational. HR. CROSBIE: Mr . Speaker, before presenting petitions I have a statement of policy to make on behalf of the government.

The government has decided on a new policy in connection Yith the municipal taxation of crown corporations that engage in ordinary commercial and industrial activiti es. The policy of government up to now has been that such crown corporations are exempted from the requirement of payment of municipal taxes to the municipalities in which their re al property or business is located and the government has refused to permit municipalities to tax such crown corporations.

The present administration has decided that this discriminatory t reatment should end and that crown corporations enga$ted in ordinary commerical and industrial activities,in competition with private I business or industry in the same fields,in this province,should in futu re be subject to the requirement to pay municipal taxes on the real property in the same - 115

April 25th. 1972 Tape 48 PK - 1 MR. CROSBIE: in the same manner as ordinary persons and corporations, Act. No. 27 of 1960 the Crown Corporations Local Taxation Act 1960 provides for the exemption of crown corporations from local taxation. Under

section four of that legislation the Lieutenant Governor-in­ Council may by order direct that the Act no longer applies to anv particular crown corporation or subject to such terms and conditions as may be specified,direct that a crown corporation shall pay to any council of a municipality or any school tax authority an amount of not greater than the taxes that \vould be so payable by the crown corporation if the Act did not apply to it.

In accordance with this legislation the government have decided to pass an Order in Council directing that the Act no longer apply to Hotel Buildings Limited,so that the Holiday Inn Hotels,in Newfoundland, located at St. John's, Clarenville, Gander, Corner Brook, Port aux Basques, will be subject to any municipal· tm:es imposed by those municipalities applicable 'to persons and corporations generally. It is a well recognized fact that these Holiday Inn Hotels are in competition with other privatelv own hotels which are subject to full municipal taxation.

Their exemption from municipal taxation will end on July 1, 1972. The government are now engaged in a review of other crown corporations involved in ordinary commerical or industrial activities so that government can decide whether or not any or all of them should also be removed from the exemption from local taxation in accordance with this policy. If any of them wish to make any submission to the government~that is crown corporations engaged in commerical or industrial activities-in this connection they can do so.

But an order is being passed so that-the Holiday Inn Hotels will be subject to municipal taxes from July 1. There are some copies here for the members, .. the pre~s and the Leader of the Opposition. 116

April 25th. 1972 Tape 48 PK - 2 MR. E. M. ROBERTS: (LEADER OF THE OPPOSITI ON): Mr. Speaker, I will forebear from any detailed comment on this. I do not think it needs much comment. I wonder if the minister could indicate to the House, Sir, whether he has any estimate of the cost that might be incurred, ~he pres~nt tax that was) assuming the municipalities maintain their tax, if he has that estimate if he would perhaps let us know.

This amounts to a direct charge upon the Treasury of the Province because it is in my view an unusual arrangements with the Holiday Inn and I would hope the minister would have a look at it.That contract has never been made statutory, }rr. Speaker, and perhaps it might be possible to change it a little more easily than a statutory contract could be changed.

But I wonder if the minister has any indication of what it will cost the province and if perhaps he could maybe now or later give us an indication of what that will do to the over-all Holiday Inns which, as I recall it, are operating at a deficit of about $~000 per unit per year across the Province. MR. CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, I have not got an estimate of what it will cost the Holiday Inns Hotel Chain in dollars and cents.Of course we cannot be sure that they are going to be taxed in each of those municipalities.

But the Ho+iday Inns,the Atlific Newfoundland Limited that operate the Holiday Inns are making money and this would be an operating expense of that operation. AN RON. MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. CROSBIE: Oh, yes, they are making money each year but _ the Hotel Buildings Limited is not making money because- AN RON. MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. CROSBIE: Right. The government crown corporation 1 Hotel Buildings Limited,is not making money because it is paying the principal and interest on the various issues of bonds. MR. ROBERTS: The difficulty is that Atlific are getting a percentage of the gross. MR. CROSBIE: Right.

Well we will table it, Mr. Speaker. 117

April 25, 1972. Mr. Crosbie. Tape no. 49 Page 1 - MRW table, Mr. Chairman, a copy of the contract entered into between Hotel Buildings Limited and Atlific. The previous government had refused to table that but we see no reason why it should not be tabled. PETITIONS MR. W.N. ROWE: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to present to this hon. House a petition which I have received from the good residents of Pacquet and Woodstock in my district of White Bay South. The text of the petition, Sir, is to the effect that the undersigned residents of Pacquet do hereby respectfully petition the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to have a guard~ail erected on that

section of road between the communities of Pacquet and Woodstock. This is an extremely dangerous

section of road and as we will have two school buses using this road as of September coming, r we would like to see a guardrail erected as soon as possible. This petition, Sir, is signed by nearly 200 residents of the Community of Pacquet which .is I think just about everj registered voter of that community. A year or two ago on that very

section of road, owing to the fact that water would come down over the hillside and go across the road before going to the sea, because of that and the icy conditions on the road1 a car went off that

section of road and three people were killed as a result, With these school buses going on next fall, the need for a guardrail on that

section of road becomes imperative in the minds of the people of Pacquet and in my mind as the member of the district of White Bay South. I would ask, Sir, that the Premier, in the absence of the Minister of Highways, would take this into his due consideration and hopefully during the construction season coming up we can see a guardrail erected on that

section of-road. It is a fairly lengthy

section of road, Sir, but it is an extremely dangerous

section of road. I think that a guardrail at some cost is well worthwhile. I move, Sir, that this petition be received by the hon. House and referred to the department to which it relates. 118

April 25, 1972 Tape no. 49 Page 2 liON. T. A. HICKMAN (Minister of Just i ce): Mr. Speaker, on behalf of this side of the House I would like to support the petition submitted by the hon. member for White Bay South. The appalling thing that has come out of this petition is that this dangerous condition, a condition that obviously is dangerous to life and limb, has been allowed to exist for the past two years without any remedial action being taken. It I gather is not a cost item. It certainly is not a cost item measured in terms of safety and taking into consideration the dangerous situation that now exists.

I, on behalf of government, have been authorized to indicate to my hon. friend from White Bay South that this will be attended to during this construction season. MR. C. R. BRETT: Mr. Speaker, I ask leave to present a petition on behalf of the people of Random Island. The prayer of this petition is that the thirty miles of gravel road on the island be upgraded and . paved. I support this petition, Mr. Speaker, very strongly for several reasons. I will list a few: Many of the people on Random Island have to commute to Clarenville and other areas to work.

Sometime this year they will have finished a new school on the island and this means that every child there will have to be bussed. A park is under construction there,under the local initiative programme,and the influx of tourists to the area will necessitate a paved road. In addition to that I think that the roads on the 1 Island have been seriously neglected during the past several years. I do not know exactly how many names there are on the petition but I think there are some ten pages of names. It must be signed by almost every voter 119

April 25, 1972 Tape No. ·so NC - 1 on the island. So, Hr. Speaker, I move seconded by the hon. member for Bo·wvista South that this petition be received and referred to the department concerned. }1P.._~OHE (\LN.): . Hr. Speaker on a point of order, it is not a very important point of order Sir, but when these petitions are presented to the House there is a motion before the llouse, the motion being tho.t the petition be received by the House and referred to the department to which it relates.

I do not suppose it makes any difference whether that motion is put to the House or not, the Clerk will see to it that the petition is sent to the relevant department hut I think for the sake of good order and procedure that perhaps the Chair should put the motion to the House. J::!.R. S'P_EAKER: I realize he may be wrong in his thinking to have all petitions presented and then put the motions collectively. HR. ROBEF.TS_(E.J~=- Mr.

Speaker, if the han. member for Green Bay ·would permit, perhaps we could accept the invitation and say a word or two on the petition, I just ~~ant to support it, I am a great advocate of pavement, Sir, and I have no doubt that the needs of Random Isla~d in this respect are very larl~e. I do hope that tvhen the Government pave Random Is land along ~~ith the pavement in Burin that they will continue the paving of the Northern Peninsula, LaScie Road. Ihere are a few others Sir. The road on The Northern Peninsula between Plum Point and St. Anthony has broken down completely.

I assume it is a conincidence that those two districts are represented by members who do not support the present administration, I hope that before very much longer that the government will see to it that this road is fiKed because,quite seriously, Sir, between,,, ~~._ MAR~HALL: The hon, Leader of the Opposition takes time. MR. ROBERTS: I intend to give the han, gentleman time,Sir. I am not complaining about the fact the road is now all but impassable but I am hoping it will be fixed shortly, particularly in the area around Big Brook and Eddy's Cove, It is all put impassable.

I had the pleasure of driving over the fifteen mile~ 120

April 25, 1972 Tape No. 50 NC· - 2 betl~een the St. Anthony air-strip and St. Anthony itself Sir, and if 1 had not been tn a four wheel jeep I might still be there. !IO!L F. O_:_l!.OORES: 1-'e are p.ettin~ a long way from R:mdom Island. HR . ROBERTS: Hell, !>lr. Speaker, I think the Premier is ready to tender. I am delighted about the pavement for Random Island. I might remind him that I think everything has been paved in Humber 1''est in the last three or four years . ~o 1 have much pleasure in supporting this petition I welcome the Premier's support.

Perhaps when next he comes up he will drive dO'Io.'J\ as well. MR. PECKFORD (A. B .J..:_ }lr . Speaker, for the third time I ask leave of the House to present a petition on behalf of thP. eomnllmity of Harry's Harbou r. The text of the petition is that one mile of road leading to a newly built park be built and guardrailed where necessary nt the earliest possilbe date . The community of Harry's Harbour applied for and received a local initiative's grant this past winter and proceeded to construct the park.

Ho~1ever, there is no access to this park at present and unless a one-mile access road is constructed this summer no access to this park will be available, hence the people of the !larry' s Harbour, Jackson's Cove, Silverdale area plus the tourists coming into that area would not have access to that new park.So I fu1ly support this petition Mr. Speaker as I signed by just about all the residents of the area and I move, seconded by ~he hon. member for Harbour Grace,bc received and referred to the dep3rtment to \Jhich it relates . 121

April 25, 1972. Tape 51 Page 1. MR.P.THOMS: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to present a petition on behalf of the reside,tts of Dover, Bonavista Bay. The prayer of this petition is that the town of Dover be given a water and sewer system. Mr. Speaker I humbly support this petition, as I recollect only last fall many of the wells in the town of Dover dried up. Many of the people had to go some three miles to Hare Bay pond to obtain water. Also, Mr. Speaker, because of the vast expansion of many of our outport communities,the to'vn of Dover is expanding possibly more than any other town in our area.

Because of the expansion and because of both the outdoor toilet and the septic tank& persons are polluting other persorls wells. This I believe is a very unsanitary and unhealthy condition to be found in this day and age. Mr. Speaker, I ask that this petition be placed on the table of the House and referred to the department to which it relates. HR. L,BARRY: Mr. Speaker~ I beg leave to present a petition to this House on behalf of the citizens of Monkstown, in my district of Placentia West.

The prayer of the petition is as follows: "We, the undersigned citizens of Monkstown, Placentia West,and taxpayers of the Province of Newfoundland do here~y petition Her Majesty's Government through our member1 Leo Barry 1 to have a road constructed to join our community to the Burin Peninsula Highway. Mr. Speaker, I strongly support the prayer of this petition. There are approximately thirty families living in this Community of Monkstown. The petition has been signed by just about every voter in the community. A road to this community would give access to great and valuable timber resources.

It is an area which is ideal for development-of the tourist industry. I understand.for example, that there are large schools of tuna fish t-rhich move up into this area of Placentia Bay·. This_ is a resource. which is worth developing. Hr. Speaker, one other point I would like to mention is that I understand that this community is a place where there is almost full 122

April 25, 1972. Tape 51 Page 2. employment. It is a place where they have demonstrated that the people of Newfoundland if given an oppo rtunity to fish, can earn a good living and it would be a shame,Mr. Speaker , to have these communities disappear from our province. Therefore, I ask leave and move that the House receive this petition and give it to the department to which it relates. Presenting Reports of Standing and Select Committees: BON. H.COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, 1 would like to table the royal commission report on taxation anri revenue of the City of St.

John's.commonly kno"Wn as the Frase r Report. llON.J.CARTER{Min. of Education): Mr. Speaker, I would like to table the following regulations made under the following Acts . Pupil Teacher Training Regulations 19711 under the Schools Act 1968. The Teacher Cradlng (Amendment) Regulations 1971, under the Education Teacher Training Act 1968. The Education Transport(Amendment)Regulation s 197l,under the Scllools Act 1969. The Teacher Grading 123

April 25, 1972, Tape 52, Page 1 -- apb tronendment) Regulations 1971, under the :F-:ducation T-eacher Training Act 1968. The School's Act Transportation ('If Pupils Regulations 1971,under the School's Act 1968. The Rducation Teachers' Salaries Amendment Regulations 19711 under the School's Act 1968. The Technical and Vocational Act Terms And r.onditions 0f Employment Regulations 1971, under the Technical and Vocational Training Act 1963. The Teachers' Housing Loan Amendment no.

(1) Regulations 1971, under the Teachers' Loan Act 1957. The School's Act Grant, Pupil Teachers' Regulations 1971 under the School's Act 1968. The School's Act Transportation Of Pupils l!mendment Regulations 1971 under the School'a Act 1968. The School's Act Transportation of P·upils Amendment no.

(2) Regulations 1971, under the School's Act 1968. Education Teachers' Salaries .~endment no.

(2) Regulations under the School's Ac( 1968. The School's Act Scholarship Regulations 1971, under the School's Act 1968. HON. T .A.U.J:CK}<.AN (Hinister of Justice): Nr. Speaker, I beg leave to table the following regulations, regulations enacted under the provisions of the Motor Carrier Act, cited as the Hotor Carrier Act, 1971 and regulations passed under the Companies Act, cited as the Companies Act J):ospectus Regulations 1971. !JON. J .C.CROSBIE (Hinister of Finance and Economic Development): Nr.

Speaker, I beg leave to table a letter to your Honour in connection with section (21) of the nevenue and Audit Act 1 which requires the Minister of Finance to keep a complete record of all securities hypothecated under the Act and to submit an annual report thereon. I am writing to advise that the government have no hvoothecated securitiP.,:;.

I further heg leave to table a letter to Your Honour in connection ,,rith section (27) paragraph (l)and(2) of the Revenue and Audit Act,which states that the minister must report to the House of Assembly within fifteen days after commencement of the next ensuing session any temporary loans raised for the purpose of paying off other te~r..porary loans. I am writing now to advise that no such loans were raised since the last sitting of the 124

A~ril L5, 1972. Tape 52, Pa~e 2 - - npb House of Assemhly. !!ON. --~J .. ~!Q_R_PJ!." __ (I>!inister. of Provincial Affa_i rs) : )'r. Sneaker, 1 ~<IOUld just like to sav that I have a booklet here entitled the Storv Of Tlle Colonial Buildin~, · put out by my department, that I Pill circula~e shortly . It is not with reference t o a reoort, but it is iust somethinp, an on~soing thing of the his t orical br anch of my department. NOTICE OF ~OTIONS: 125

April 25, 1972 Tape 53 MR. HICKMAN: I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled a bill, "An Act Further To Amend The Constabulary Pensions Act, 1970," and on behalf of my colleague, the hon. the Minister of ~lines, Agriculture and Resources, a bill, "An Act Further To Amend The Wildlife Act." MR. CROSBIE: Mr.

Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow beg leave of the House to introduce a bill, "An Act Further To Amend The Public Service Pensions Act, 1968," and I _ wi.l,l ask leave JM- 1 to introduce a bill, "An Act Respecting The Award Of An Increase Of Pensions To Or In Respect Of Certain Employees Of The Government And Certain Teachers." It should be noted that this increase has already taken place. Mr. Speaker, it is not a new increase. And a bill, "An Act To Amend The Civil Service Transferred Employees Act, 1956," and the bill, "An Act Further To Amend The Civil Service Act." MR. NE~RY: Mr.

Speaker, I, give notice that I will on ·tomorrow ask leave of the House to introduce the following resolution: miEREAS despite vastly increased productivity in Canada over the past fifteen years 1 there has not been a proportionate increase in the total number of people employed in industry over the same period; 1 AND

WHEREAS every indication for the future is for an acceleration in geometric ratio of the take~over of production and many clerical and even selling jobs by machines and computers; AND miEREAS large numbers of our young men an~ young women are pouring out of high schools, universities and even vocational training instituUomwithout any real openings for them in the existing employment mar~et; AND

WHEREAS this province has suffered constantly increasing unemployment at all age levels 1 with a disproportionately high unemployment rate among the young; 126

April 25, 1972 Tape 53 MR. NEARY: AND tmEREAS it should be the responsibility of governments at all levels to provide work for our unemployed : AND liBEREAS the principle of encouragin~ local incentives and participation in creating work of this nature is an accepted policy of the Government of Canada; JM- 2

BE IT RESOLVED that a select committee of the House be appointed to investigate and report on the feasibility of a year~round programme of special works sponsored by the federal and provincial governments and that this special works programme be concerned with projects that will not in any way conflict with the private sector of our economy but will on the other hand bring greater prosperity to that private secto-c by placing purchasing power in the hands of greater numbers of our people and simultaneously reduce the number of able - bodied citizens and their families forced under present conditions to accept social assistance . 127

April 25, 1972 Tape no, 54 Page 1 - MRW ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS HON. H. A. COLLINS (Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing): Mr. Speaker, I have the answer to Question No. !,appearing on the Order Paper of 20th. April, in the name of the bon. member for Bell Island. ORDERS OF THE DAY MR. ROWE (W.N.): Mr. Speaker, on orders of the day, I wonder would the bon. Minister of Finance tell the House whether Mr. Harvey Cole receives his salary from the public treasury of this Province? MR. CROSBIE: Yes, Mr. Speaker, he certainly does. Mr. Harvey Cole is a special-assistant to the Minister of Finance.

I only wish be could get double what he is getting. MR. ROWE (ll.N.) Would the hon. minister tell the House then whether Mr. Cole's duties include the co-ordinating of political nominating meetings for the Progressive Conservative Party? J:otR. CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, any co-ordinating Mr. Cole does is done on his own time. From 9:00 A.M. to 5:30 P.M. he gives devoted service to his minister. ~1R. ROWE (W.N.): Mr.

Speaker, a further supplementary on that answer. w·ould the minister tell the House whether the government had rescinded the general prohibition against public servants involving themselves in political activities? I MR. CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, I am delighted that the hon. member asked that question because executive-assistants, as the bon. gentleman well knows, are not civil servants, they are executive assistants to their ministers. There is no lawnorregulation that forbids them from engaging · in political activity.

As was the case with the bon. member's executive-assistant when he had one, they helped their minister in political matters, constituency matters or in matters of government administration. There is no prohibition against them doing, any of those things. They are not civil servants. They are not appointed as civil servants. They are appointed as executive assistants. MR. ROBERTS: Are special-assistants executive-assistants? 128

April 25, 1972 MR . CROSBIE: MR. ROBERTS: HR. SPEAKER: Tape no. 54 Page 2 They are executive~assistants that are special. No doubt Harvey is special. The Chair recognizes the hon. member for Bell Island. !ffi.. S. A. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, before I get to the Address In Reply, there is just a minor technical point that I would like to raise, if I am permitted to revert back to Notice of Motion and Questions. I should have stated that when I was introducing the resolution,that it was seconded by the hon. member for Fogo, The hon.

Speaker did not check me on it,so I wonder if I could have permission,just for the sake of entering it into the record that there was a seconder. If that is in order, Mr. Speaker, I would like to have it recorded. Mr. Speaker, on a number of occasions,both inside and outside of this hon. House, it has been suggested that we ought to have a permanent Speaker, you know, sort of a civil service appointment, rather than go through the motions of electing our own Speaker in the traditional way from the ranks of those who were successful at the polls. Well, Sir, your own election as Speaker of this hon.

House certainly speaks well for the old system that has withstood the test of time. I do not think, Sir, that members of this House could have made a better choice of Speaker. I want to offer Your Honour my sincere congratulations and good wishes for the days and months ahead, Mr. Speaker, as one of the veteran members in this bon. House, I think the member for Fogo on my left is probably the senior member of the House and I think that my hon. friend from St. John's Centre and myself are tied for second place. We both came into this House, I think . in 1962.

The member for Fortune was put in the penalty box for a brief period. Mr. Speaker, as I look back over the past decade at all the interesting and sometimes dramatic happenings that have taken place in these chambers, I must say that I cannot help but feel a little nostalgic. The so-called Smallwood era has ended 129

April 25, 1972 Tape 55 PK- 1 HR. NEARY: lole are now told by the new shiney members of the House that we are embarking upon a different style of politics in Newfoundland and Labrador. Only time will tell, Sir, whether this is for the better or for the worse. However, Hr.

Speaker, I could not let the opportunity pass,as we gently close the door to the so-called "Smallwood Years" and as we start on a new road filled with uncertainities, I could not let the opportunity pass without stating publicly in this House that it was my good fortunate to be associated with a man and an administration that really tried hard to improve the lives of the people in Newfoundland and Labrador. Mr.

Speaker, my three-and-one-half years as minister in the Smallwood Government, first as a minister without portfolio and then as a minister without po~tfolio responsible for transportation, then as Hinister of Public lvelfare, t.Jhich was later rename~ the Department of Social Services and Rehabilitation,and Acting Hinister of Labour for almost one year, Sir, I would say that this was a once in a lifetime opportunity and an honour and a privilege, Sir, that I will always cherish. We had a job to do and I think, Hr.

Speaker, it is only fair to1 say, I think most members on the opposite side of the House will agree that we tried to do this job to the best of our ability. Now, Mr. Speaker, it would be very dishonest of me indeed and very insincere of me if I did not admit that my tenure of office as a minister in the government and as a private member in this hon. House for the last eleven years did not have its moments of frustration. But, Hr.

Speaker, I want to make it abundantly clear here now that I make no excuses nor do I apologize to any man for decisions that were taken in the three-and-one-half years that I was a cabinet minister. Now, Mr. Speaker, in welcoming the new members across the House - and I might say in passing that some of them probably still have their 130

April 25, 1972 Tape 55 PK - 2 MR. NEARY: Liberal memberships cards in their wallets and if I were these hon. gentleman I 'vould not tear up the cards yet. Some of the hon. members, Hr. Speaker,(this might be of some interest to the House) only a fet-r short weeks ago were members of the executive of the District ~iberal Association. Now I do not wish these members any harm, Hr.

Speaker, I hope that they will represent their district with honour and distinction and that they will be able to live up to the high hopes and expectations they have aroused in their constituents through the pre-election promises that were made by themselves and by the hierarchy of the P .C. Party. If they follo~>T the advice, Hr. Speaker, tl,at was given to this hon. !louse on !)pening day by our new brilliant J,eader of the Opposition and they listen to the few words of wisdom that I will throw out today perhaps some of them may last two terms or maybe, Mr.

Speaker, one or two of them may be able to stand in this bon. !louse ten years from now, as I am doing today,and express a few cautious words to the rookies who will undoubtedly occupy the seats that most-of us are occupying here today. Nm.r, Hr. Speaker, before going into the Throne Speech in any detail,may I say that my opipion of the Throne Speech differs somewhat from that of the mover and the seconder of the Address in Reply, the members for Labrador Hest and I think the member (is it Trinity North?) }m. BRETT: rrinity North. MR. NEARY: Trinity North. Although I di:!;fer with the two hon. members, Mr.

Speaker, I think they did carry out their duty very well on_opening gay and I hope that they will be not too badly let down when the Minister of Finance (he is not in his seat in the House at the present time) and his colleagues in government are unable to deliver all the promises, I think there are seventy-nine, Mr. Speaker, I believe at the last 131

April 25, 1972 Tape 55 PK- 3 }ffi. NEARY:account to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. I was most interested in ~hat the member for Labrador West had to say about the problems in his own district. The hon. member did not tell us anything new, Mr. Speaker. The first member elected to this House from the ~!strict of Labrador West was an independent member who happened to be a very good friend of mine 1who later on fell by the wayside and joined the ranks of the ~ory Party. That hon. member, Hr. Speaker, outlined fully the problems of Labrador West and then his ~vords were echoed by his successor, Mr.

Burgess, who fell by the wayside and was later returned to the fold,and now we hear the present member for Labrador West telling us about the age old problems of Labrador Hest. Hell, Mr. Speaker, I would be the first person in this House to admit that there are problems in Labrador West and there are problems in Labrador North and there are problems in Labrador South. I would suggest, Sir, that the problems in Labrador South are probably more urgent than the problems in Labrador West.~d there are problems in my own district of Bell Island, Mr.

Speaker, and there are problems in the districts .of every hon. member of this House including the hon. the Premier's district of Humber 1-lest. I I thought, Mr. Speaker, that the hon,member at least would have Riven the former administration a little bit of credit for some of the things that ue have done in Labrador \~est. I would like to say to the hon. member, }rr.

Speaker, that but for the former Liberal Administration of this Province that directed the affairs of this Province for twenty-three years that the han. member would not be the principal of one 'of the finest schools that we have in this Provin~e today, because there would be no Labrador City narWabush. 132

April 25, 1972. Tape 56. Pa~e 1. Mr. Speaker, I would like to gently remind the hon. member, this can be verified by his colleague, the Minister of Finance, that it was this government, Liberal Government, the former administration led by Premie~ Smallwood that provided the means of transportation to get the people out of Labrador He!lt on to the island of Newfoundland. It was the Liberal Administration Hr. Speaker, that created Eastern Provincial Airways, an airline that has expanded and is now either the second or third airline in the whole Dominion of Canada. That airline '~as established Nr.

Speaker, for one reason and one reason only, because of Labrador City, Habush and Churchill Falls, No, Mr. Speaker, although Goose Bay was included in the

schedule and E.P.A." is s~rving Goose Bay, that was not the main reason for establishing Eastern Provincial Airways. It was set up primarily to get Ne,~foundlanders in and out of Labrador West, so that the business people of this Province could do some business in Churchill Falls, \Vabush and Labrador City. My hon. friend should know that. Hr. Speaker, what about the roll that this government, the Liberal Government, '~hat about the roll they played in building a new hospital in Labrador City.

MR.ROUSSEAU : It is a beaut, MR.NEARY: May be a beaut, maybe the hon. member for Labrador West can tell the hon. member for St. John's Centre all about it. But the hospital was built through the initiative of a Liberal Administratio~ Mr. Speaker and all the other services of government that were taken into Labrador West, all the employment was created, all the other things that were done including the setting up of an airline. I think,Mr.

Speaker, that people of this provlnce have put up or guaranteed - is it brelve or fourteen million dollars to that airline - I am not quite sure on that, It ls either twelve or fourteen million dollar 's the people of thi.s prov:J.nce have gone on the back of a note to make sure that the people in Labrador West can get back and forth to the island of Newfoundland. 133

April 25, 1972, Tape 56. Page 2. No mention of that Mr, Speaker, no mention at all. I hope 1 Mr. Speaker~ that- I ~dsh him '' ell and I hope that my han. friend will be able to get the results, I hope that he will not be too greatly let down, nor too disillusioned, that he will be able to get all the things that the people in Labrador West need. Hr. Speaker, they do not need all the big things that we have been told about. All they need in Labrador West is to be able to get a little television brought in from the satellite station which is only about sixty miles away over in Hount Hright.

They want a few houses built down there Hr. Speaker. It is the little things they want. They do not want the big things, ( inaudible) HR.NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the han. member will get a mushroom just as soon as I can get one big enough. Just as soon as I can get one big enough Mr. Speaker to fill up the opening, that will not be very big. fill up the opening in the hon. gentleman's face, I will see to it that he gets one. The han. minister for Mines, Agriculture & Resources/ Hr. Speaker, before Narch 24, spent considerable time on Bell Island looking for I mushrooms. He 'vas looking for more than mushrooms too.

But all he got was mushrooms all right, the Liberal member was mushroomed right back in the House of Assembly. Mr. Speaker, seeing that the hon, member raised the question of mushrooms, let me say that it is not quite as funny as the hon. Premier and his colleagues, especially his colleague -to his left may think. This is a matter that I have raised in this hon. House before Mr. _Speaker and the han. ,Premier has gone about this Province talking about resource development.

Let us get $50,000 industry here and let us get $100,000 industry here, let us get . $150,000 industry here but he has not told us what kind of industries they are. Resource Developmen~ a vague general term• But Mr. Speaker, I ask the hon. Premier notv what 134

April 25, 19 72. Tape 56. Page 3. v10uld be wrong with establishing a mushroom farm on Bell Island with a canning factory that would employ 150 to 200 people? MR.MOORES: Hr. Speaker, I would like to reply to the han. gentleman's question. MR.NEARY: Mr. Speaker, is the han. gentleman asking a question? HR.1'f00RES: You asked the question, do I have permission to answer it. MR.NEARY: Providing, I am not yielding the floor,Mr. Speaker, I want to carry on with my speech.

MR.W.HARSHALL: Yield the floor and the Premier will answer it. }ffi.MOORES: The han. gentleman ask~d about the $150,000 industries for around the province, what would be wrong for a mushroom farm on Bell Island? The han. member has donated,one would assume,all his energies, pretty well all of them to this project for many years. So far I understand they have two cardboard boxes worth down in the mine, whilst even with the amount of manure that is available,Mr. Speaker, the mushrooms did not come on too well. MR.NEARY: Hr. Speaker, that is not really the kind of performance that you would expect from an han.

Premier of this House. So, let me look the hon. :Premier straight in the 1eye and ask the han. gentleman here and now- 'll •~ill give the han. Premier an opportunity to say ye~; or; no. Put up Hr. Speaker or shut up. If I can prove to the hon. Premier and the Hinister of Economic Development, the minister of Cm:l1!lunity & Social Development, Hiuister of Hines, Agriculture & Resources, that this is a feasible industry, will the han. Premier give the people of Bell _ Island all the backing that they need to set up that industry or any other industry for that matter? HR.H01.1RES: Yes, Mr.

Speaker, if the bon. member will also prove why it had not been done before tvhen he vras working so hard at it? MR.NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I do not want to prolong this matter but .the bon. member for St. John's East brought it up. I just want to point out to members on the other side of the House that this pilot project 135

April 25, 1972 . Tape 56. Page 4. cost the Government of this Province nothing. As a matter of fact Mr. Speaker, the pilot project \vas carried out at the expense of the Ontario Hushroom Company which is one of the largest producers of mushrooms in ~anada and myself, I put my 136

April 25, 1972 Tape No. 57 NC - 1 I put my hand in my o~m pocket and paid for these trays that the hon. member poked fun at and brought them in and put the trays down in the m:tue and paid the ~,rorkers that r,;cnt dmm to check them occasionally to see tvhat the yield would be from the trays that were brought in and packed in Ontario. }fr. Speaker, I am amazed and surprised at the hon.

Premier for poking fun at this because he has gone all over this province, from one end to the other, every nook and cranny of the Island of Net•Jfoundland and Labrador talking about small industries and here is an industry that lVe could have and what does the hon. Premier do? Stand in this House this afternoon and poke fun at it. If the hon. Premierwereunemployed on Jlell Island, he would not poke fun at it. Hr. Spea~er if the han.

Premier tvere sincere in the answer that he just gave .me 1 then I will certainly camp on his doorstep in the months ahead to take him up on his commitment that he would, I just want to make sure I got this straight, Nr. Speaker, the han. gentleman said that his government would back this industry or any other industry that is feasible to be established on Bell Island. If I do not hear a contradiction I Hill assume then, Mr. Speaker, that I can take the han. Premier at his word and I appreciate that 1 Mr, Speaker, because ) I have a feeling that down underneath that hard crust that the hon.

Premier does have a feeling for the people of NevJfoundland and I do not think that the hon. Premier at least- there may be other members on the opposite side of the House tvho are vindictive and narrotv-minded but I \Vould not put the han. Premier in that category and I do not think that he would go out for revenge against a district because they sent a Liberal member back to the House of Assembly. I am sure he would not, Hr. Speaker.

I admire him for that becuase I think~to repeat the hon. member-'s own. words, "it is not the individuals in this House that count, it is not ~vhether that crm.:rd over there gets elected or whether this crowd over here gets elected,the individuals do not count it is the people of Newfoundland." I woulc be the last, Hr. Speaker, not to recognize that fact and I appreciate it every time I hear the hon. Premier make that statement. 137

April 25, 1972 Tape No. ·57 NC - 2 Mr. Speaker, the Throne Speech strikes me as an attempt by Her Majesty's G,overnment to be all things to all mem. So many general goodies have been promised to each one of us and each part of the island that I do believe, Sir, and I say this with all sincerity 1 that it Hill require maximum utilization of the human resources on both sides of this hon. House to come close to realizing the millennium which ~-1e promised. Mr.

Speaker, both the vagueness and the Santa Claus list delivered in the Speech from the Throne at the opening of the first session of the Thirty-Fifth peneral Assembly was understandable as establishing the longest election platform every delivered in this province. Little different from that of the Harch 1 oneJhor-1ever, Mr. Speaker, was the speech delivered on April 19 at the opening of the Thirty-Sixth General Assembly of the Province ' of Newfoundland and Labrador. In that speech, Mr.

Speaker there was one additional promise if not two, but definitely one additional promise added to the election manifesto that we heard on March 1. Now I would suggest,Mr. Speaker, that the responsibility hangs heavy upon the government of this province at this moment to commence immediately bringing into this House specific measures through which they intend to realize at least some of the small port:l.on of the promises which they made in the Throne Speech to which we lent our ears a week ago. May I suggest,Mr.

Speaker, that at this moment there is a grave urgency about educating our people to the fact for anvone _over the age of six years that there is no Santa Claus and the fact that everything must be paid for in productive work by someone or something. Mr. Speaker, the hon. Minister of Social Services finally decided to take. his seat in this House. He have only been sitting now for one day and he has been . up and down like a Hexican jumping bean, in and out of the House, too busy to car~y out the responsibility, Hr. Speaker, that has been given to him by the constituents in St. John's East Extern. H_ON. T. P.

HICKEY: I have a department which the hon. gentleman knows all about. NR. NEARY: The hon. gentleman might be interested in knowing that I am one of his constituents. 138

April 25, 19 72 Tape No . 57 NC - 3 ~·1R . ,!ti£.KEY: I am well aware of it. I am doin~ something about it too. NR. Nl!ARY: I ~rill keep an eye on the hon. member, Mr. Speaker, and I '~ill make sure that he stays in his seat because when we \-:ere ministers,sometimes with ~vo departments,~~ mana~ed to be able to take our place in this hon . House and spent three hours a days . When necessary, Hr . Speaker, we 'vere here morning, noon and nip,ht and one morning we ''ere here until 4 · 30 o'clock 1n the morning and ,.;e abvays managed to st t in the House he cause, Mr.

Speake r, just for the benefit of the new !':Mny members on the other side of the House, the only reas on chnc: c-andidates are elected, "r. Sj>t:nker, is to sit jn this l1on. House . I do not know ~o•hether they <tre au.1re of that or not. Noto~, as ! was sayjng, \lr. Speaker, apparently it did not occur to the scribe who put together the Throne Speech fo r the sessi.on that we are now embarkin ll opon, that there is no Santa Claus foT the adult population of this province. that everythinr, must be paid for in productive 1.;ork by someone "r someth ln~\, therefore, 'lr .

Speaker 1 1-1ould like to suggest to hon . Aentlemen or: the other side of the House that they take a good look at the llst of gc>otll 's in their dcclar:ttion of policy and their ar,enda for this session, thnt they take a good look at: this list and C\stablish priorities amon11. therr., strike out the things, 'lr. Speaker , wbic~ obviously are I impossible of achievement or unlikely to benefit the masses. 139

April 25, 1972, Tape 58, Pa~e 1 -- apb MR. NEAF.Y: Of the people in our province without crippling the economy completely. I would su~gest, Sir, that the government get dotm to hrass tacks in the matter of establishing priorities and set UP some kind of critical path towards the achievement of at least some of the goals that are so necessary to our people. Vr.

Speal :er, as we leaf throu~h the Throne Speech. ~·e notice such expressions as 'emphasis ~7!11 continue to he placed on a progressive, realistic policy of iob creating throu?h resource development." J\gain"my government will ensure that policies are formulated to encourage a rational exoansion of the private sector into a 1i7ide-range of possible job-creatinr- activities. ~·y government is dedicated and committed to providing adenuate health and dented services to all our people." (I hope the hon. member for Carbonear studied that phrase very carefully.) My government is concerned about the nrovision of adequate housinp: for all citizens." You would not kno't-7, Hr.

Speaker, but the hon. ~'inister of }'unicipal Affairs and Housing t.ras p,oinr to go out tomorroti7 morning t•rith his tool box and start putting un houses in this province. Listen to this one, Hr. Speaker, this is a dillv. "uy gove~nment feels that through well defined and realistic social and economic goals and obiectives increased per capita productivity from our ~rork force t,•ill follow. '' lfr. Speaker, iust how ~ullible, how gullible does the hon. r.1.embers on the other side of the House think we are or hot·7 gullible do they think the people of Newfoundland are? lo!hat a generalization.

It does not mean anything, Hr. Speaker; a completely hollow promise. Listen to this one. Perhaps some of the legal minds on the other side of the House can interpret this one for me. "If our province is to move ahead at the desired speed, it can only be accomplished by more Hark from all our 'People at all levels of employment.' What a statement, Mr. Speaker, tvhat a statement! Do they think that we are against motherhood in this province or on this side 140

April 25, 1972, Tape 58, Page 2 -- apb of the House? ~l r. Speaker, these are holy and wholesome thoughts indeed, but if they are ob:!ectives and goals, then in ~•hat way, }<r. Speaker, tell roe, in what ~my do they differ from the objectives and p,oals of the govermnent which directed this province for the first twenty-three years of its history as a Province of Canada? I '1-JOuld love for the hon. Premier to be in his seat at this moment so that he could stand in'bis place in this honourable House and tell me. I see the hon. member for St.

John's South looking at me rather quizzically over there because there is a big question mark over his head. He does not understand all this jargon, this mumbo-:Jumbo. Perhaps the hon. member for St. John's South,who refused to p,o back and f ace the people and the great giant killer in Bonavista North,could tell me,when he stands in his place in this honourahle House to SJ'eak in the Address in Reply,Just what all these phrases mean. :Mr. Speaker, here i"s a beaut, here is a beaut! I would like for the hon. member for Herrnitage,sitting to the hon. member's immediate left, the aspiring Finister of Fisheries, ur.

Speaker, I wonder if he ~vould be so kind when he stands in this honourable liouse ·as I am doin~ today, to speak in ~he Address in Reply if he would explain this ohrase to me, this phrase that was probably produced by the Bay Street Boys from Toronto. 'lfy government views with alarm the lack of positive and realistic steps on the part of the Government of Canada with respect to preventing the possible over-exploitation pf our salmon resource while they are far from our shores during a stage in their life cycle. ' }fr. Speaker, I cannot blame the hon. member for St.

John's South for smilinR, I really cannot blame him. There is a phrase, "during a ·stage in their life cycle.·· Their life cycle, I wonder if the hon. member could tell us if they are talking about a motor - bike? Is this some sort of a cycle club lve are talking about? You know, Hr. Speaker, the irony of this, the irony of it is that only a few days ago lve were told in this House ,through the Throne Speech, that my hon. 141

April 25, 1972, Tape 58, Page 3 -- apb friends opposite were very concerned about the conservation of the salmon fishery in Newfoundland. ~fuat happened, Jlrr. Speaker, when the :Minister of Fi.sheries of Canada in Otta~ra came out the other day and announced conservation measures to protect the salmon fisherv on the east coast of Newfoundland? On the east coast of Canada? Do you kno~1, "Mr. Speaker, ~~here the first ohj ect:!.on came from? I am sure that this must be a direct contradiction of the policy that was outlined in the honourable and gracious Throne Speech.

The first ob~ection c~.e from the ~overnment, from the new government, from the hon. the Premiertprobably advised by the aspirinp Ninister of Fisheries. Hr. Speaker, here is another beaut! You know, the more you read through the Speech the more humourous it becomes. 'Ny government have taken new steps to assess new ways of encouraging and protecting leeitimate exploration for minerals Hithin our province.' There is a dandy, ~6r. Speaker.

I only wish the :Minister of Mines, Agriculture and Resources were in the House today instead of hob-nobbing in Ottawa, so that he could tell us what that phrase means, If he were here, ~~r. Speaker, I am sure he could tell the honourable House what the next one means. "My ~overnment is convinced that 142

April 25, 1972 Tape no. 59 Page 1- MRW Mr. Neary. farming must be encouraged,and steps have been taken to ensure that,on the a basis ofAsound land use plan, agricultural land will be brought into production where there is a demonstrable need." Now what a joke! Mr. Speaker, what a joke! There it is and the hon. Premier had the gall to stand in this House and talk about manure. Mr. Speaker, now I know where I tvill get the manure to grow mushrooms on Bell Island. Mr.

Speaker, so fascinated is ller Majesty's scribe with taking steps that it was seen that this present government will go down in history as the peripatetic government, the first in the history of the Province. I am sure the bon, member for Carbonear could explain to his lay colleagues behind him what that means. Mr.

Speaker, I only hope and I would say let us all hope in this honour- able House that the excess emphasison steps to be taken does not refer to steps across the floor of the House~between these rows of desks,because enough of this has taken place in the past, caused confusion not only within the House, Sir, but to the people of our Province in every nook and cranny of this Island and on the mainland part of the Province,in Labrador. Mr.

Speaker, may I suggest that the government,in its eagerness and declared intentions to increase the productivity of our people and to establish small industries, not be lead astray into time-wasting, money-wasting, energy- , wasting attempts to swim against the tide of progress, the tide of today. Mr. Speaker, they will be barking up the wrong tree, believe me, if they attempt to create labour-intensive modern.productive industries. There is just no room, Sir, in this technological era of ours for such, There is little future in the private sector for labour-intensive industries.

I .touched upon ·this matter earlier this afternoon,Mr. Speaker, when I brought a resolution into this House which I hope to expand on tQmorrow, Mr. Speaker, surely the thinkinE members on the opposite side of the House now I would not expect this from the lawyers, Sir, who are only interested in jurisprudence) know that productivity today is no longer the result of human 143

April 25, 1972 .Tape no. 59 Page 2 Mr. Neary hands, it is the result of machines • We are living in a technological era, Mr. Speaker, an era of automation and computer-control automation. I say again, Mr. Speaker, let not our government then waste their tlme, our time and our taxpayers' money attempting to fight technological advances. Let them concentrate instead, Mr. Speaker, on economic development rather than industrial development,if they are to find any hopes of employing people and solving the unemployment problems of this Province. Mr.

Speaker, the hon. member has expressed a little bit of wit but I will deal with that subject tomorrow in the resolution that I introduced today. I would suggest to the hon. member for St . Mary's, Mr. Speaker, that rather than try to be a Rowan and Martin in this House that he take a good look at the ~istrict of St. Mary's which he represents r here in this House and see the need for special projects, make-work projects to be created in that district. The hon. member, Mr. Speaker, may not think it is so funny if some of the unemployed men in St.

Mary's Bay were to find jobs digging a tunnel across the Strait of Belle Isle or a tunnel anywhere else. It may not be so funny then,Mr. Speaker. This is precisely what I said in the beginning. Mr. Speaker if the hon. member were not so busy over in Europe, England, getting his law degree, perhaps he would be aware of the unemployment situation in this Province, He may even think that make-work projects are not such a bad thing. I know the han. member. I sat in this bon. House when the hon. gentleman was Leader of the Opposition, I think he is a very sincere, conscientious man.

I know he is just poking a little fun now, Mr. Speaker, because you know somebody from this side of the House is speaking and when somebody from the other side gets up to speak we poke a little fun at him. Really down deep in his heart,! think - unless the hon. member is completely wrapped up in his law degree and completely got his mind trained to making money, going to be a brilliant young lawyer in this Province, going to make $35,000, $40,000, $50,000 a year in practicing law. - I would suggest, Mr.

Speaker, to the bon. member that if he is dedicated to the people of this Pravince~as I know he is,that one of the first things 144

April 25, 1972 Mr. Neary Tape no. 59 Page 3 that he will do when he gets his law degree, in honour of his getting his law degree from Oxford or wherever it is in England, Cambridge, tha~ he will rush back to this Province on the next jet that is coming back to Newfoundland, get the Kostaszek Report down off the shelf, wipe off the dust and take a look at the legal fees that are charged for real estate transactions in this Province. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. NEARY: The hon. member for White Bay South is not actively practicing law, Mr. Speaker, neither is the Leader of the Opposition.

I am look at hon.members on the opposite side of the House who are practicing law and who were advised by Mr. Kostaszek, if that is the right pron~ciation, to clean up their own houses, bring down the cost of real estate in this Province, cut legal fees for real estate transactions. clean up their own house they were told. They have '~Jeaned up their own houses'all right, Mr. Speaker, they have cleaned up! Then we see in this Throne Speech - let me go back to this great gem of wisdom in the Throne Speech about housing. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) ~· NEARY: No, Mr.

Speaker, I am not going to tackle the doctors today, not that I could not, 145

April 25, 1972 Tape 60 - JM- 1 MR. NEARY: The hon. member for Carbonear got his neck in a noose the other day trying to justify the $50 thousand, $100 thousand and $150 thousand income that doctors have in this province,and I will deal with that other at a later date. I am just trying to find here now, Mr. Speaker, the quotation, the great gem of wisdom about housing. If my bon. friends want to do anything about getting down the cost of homes in this province 1 I suggest they take a look at that report and they may not be so quick, Mr. Speaker, in future,to rush in to this House talking about housing.

So they are goin~ to tell us all about housing. So my bon. friend from St. Mary's Bay, from the district of St. ~ry's,I hope that that is one of the first things that the hon. member will do when he gets his law degree. Let us find out how dedicated the membf.rs who are elected,especially the lawyers on that side of the House, really are. Let us see how dedicated the run-away member for St.

John's South is now that he is in government, Is he prepared to accept the recommendation of a completely independent royal commission, a man that does not even live in this province, a man that came down from I Ontario and told the lawyers to clean out their own house? Mr. Speaker, I will tell you this that they will never make me an honorary member of the Bar Society in this Province. Mr. Speaker, before I was interrupted by the hon. member for St. Mary's,I suggested to the hon. members on the other side of the House, to the new government - Yes, Mr. Speaker, here is the quotation.

Some hon. member on the opposite side was good enough to send it over- to me. "My government is concerned about the provision of adequate housing for all citizens and accepts the need for housing as a legitimate demand upon government resources in seeking satisfactory solutions," Now I hope, Mr. Speaker, that they 146

April 25, 1972 Tape 60 JM- 2 MR. NEARY: will co-operate on that, lowering legal fees and real estate fees and I hope, Mr. Speaker, for the sake of the small minority group that are crusading in St. John's and in other parts of Newfoundland at the present time 1 known as the Tenants Associations, now I hope that the hon. Minister of Justice or the hon. Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing intends to bring into this honourable House legislation to protect tenants in this province. I know the bon. member for St. John's South is terribly interested in this subject, Mr. Speaker, and well he should be. I hope, Mr.

Speaker, that when he stands in this honourable House, as I know he w':i.ll to speak i? the Address in Reply that he will express his views on the high cost of legal fees in real estate transactions in this province. I will be awfully disappointed if he does not, Mr. Speaker. I will be awfully disappointed if the bon. Premier did not take the bull by the horns instead of taking it by the other end, Hr. Speaker, and say to these hon. gentlemen~ "Look, this man came down from Ontario 1 an independent royal commission, Mr.

Kostaszek, and he suggested you clean out your own house and reduce legal fees for real estate I transactions and you have not done it." And the hon. Premier is just the kind of a person, if I could get the hon. Premier's attention there for a moment, he is just the kind of a person who would say to these gentlemen; "Go and do what you were told in that report." MR. WINSOR: Go your way and sin no more! MR. NEARY: My hon. colleague on my left here says, "Go your way and sin no morel" Well, I would not expect that from the lawyers, Mr. Speaker, but I would certainly expect the hon.

Premier who-maybe he did not know that the Bay. Streetboys had put this in here but here it is. ~ve still have plenty of time, Mr. Speaker. "My government is concerned about the provision of adequate housing." Well, we will 147

April 25, 1972 Tape 60 JM - 3 MR. NEARY: find out. We will find out in the next few months, the next year or two,just how sincere the hon. Premier was when he endorsed that statement. Mr. Speaker, as I started to say a few moments ago,and I did not mean to digress, that private enterprise can no longer afford to employ people in large numbers. Only government can do this and our Liberal ~vernment in Ottawa ~f the hon.

Premier had stayed there a little longer he would have found this out have set the pattern and they have created and they have test-marketed an idea, which is completely new in Canada 1 through the opportunity for youth programmes and the local incentives programme. ~r. Speaker, in my opinion only through government can work be created on a scale that will provide an alternative to people from going on welfare or on social assistance or on unemployment ins~rance. Mr. Speaker, seeing the hon.

Premier is so interested in the district of Bell Island, perhaps I could make a suggestion to him knd to the honourable House that in testing out ideas like the local incentive programme and the opportunity for youth programme, in I testing out these ideas of providing employment that Bell Island be the place selected 1 because the people in my district, Mr. Speaker, were robbed of their livelihood.Starting back in 1959 and right up to the final pull out by DOSCO in 1966 1 our people were robbe4 of an opportunity to earn a living. Last summer, Mr.

Speaker, despite the criticism that we have had from certain han 148

April 25, 1972 Tape 61 PK- 1 }ffi. NEARY: ministers on the other side of the House. We tested an expermental programme called "Operation Redirect". I might inform the hen. member for St. John's Centre that was an "Operation Redirect" and he heard about it. The hen. member was on Bell Islr.nd only about two weeks .ago and he heard all about it. The hen. member was. MR. MURPHY: Inaudible. MR. NEARY: Well maybe it was in October the hen. member was over. I have my elections mixed up, Hr. Speaker. In this "Operation Redirect", Hr.

Speaker, ~ve created jobs for over sixty men who had not worked since the final Dosco close- down in 1966. Hr. Speaker, all our e'fforts to find an entrepreneur to take over the abandoned Dosco Mines have proved fruitless in the past eight years. If I could get the attention again, if I could only hold the attention of the hon. the Premier, Mr. Speaker, I know the han. Premier is bored in the House. This was proven by his record of attendance in the House of Commons, but if I could only get his attention. Mr. Speaker, if I could just get his attention just for one second. Now this is a good idea, Mr.

Speaker, and I would like for the hon. the Premier to think about this. We have not been able to get anybody to take over these mines and 1 we have not been able to find any enterprising people to come into Bell Island to create industry. So may I now ask the House to appoint a special task force of successful professional and businessm~n to organize small and ~edium sized industry suitable to the people of Bell Island, especially the young people. Hr. Speaker, what does the han. the Premier think of that suggestion? The han. the Premier does not think very much of it. Hr.

Speaker, the only tning I have to say is ,that I am a~vfully disappointed because the hon. the Premier has gone all over this Province talking about advisory councils, setting up an economic development council here, an advisory council here, some other organization that is interested in deve~opment here and yet he does not think that this idea of setting up a task force 149

~dl 25, 1972 Tape 61 PK - 2 MR. NEARY: to take a look at Bell Island is a good idea. Mr. Speaker, I am really, really disappointed. Really disappointed! I thought that the hon. the Premier would really go for this. I wonder, Mr. Speaker, if the hon. the Premier would reconsider it? It does not cost anything. Get dollar-a-year men, successful professional and business people in this Province, dollar-a-year men, all they need is expenses to take a look at Bell Island to see if it is feasible to create medium and small sized industry over there that are suited to the needs of the people. Mr.

Speaker, I wonder if the hon. the Premier would reconsider that. He probably made a hasty decision. I would like for the hon. the Premier to sleep on it, Mr. Speaker, because, in my opinion, this would give the government an opportunity to test out i~ a controlled environment its ideas as to the feasibility of fostering small industry in our Province,that the hon. the Premier has talked so much about. Hr.

Speaker, May I a·lso suggest that the present' government pres- sured Ottawa in the endeavour to secure for this Province further special works programmes on a year around basis similar to the local incentives programmes introduced this past winter by the Federal Government and that such programmes be tested out on Bell Island so I that every man and woman who wants to work will have a job open to him or her. As projects within such a framework, Mr.

Speaker, in case this is t-1hat is bothering the hon. the Premier, may I suggest that the idea of doing a feasibility study on a tunnel or a causeway _might not be such a bad idea. If it would create work, the completion date does not mean anything. It is far better to have people doing something useful; doing things that they know how to do and doing things with their hands than to have them in enforced idleness drawing social assistance. I think, Mr. Speaker, the hon. the Premier will reconsider. 150

April 25, 1972 Tape 61 PK- 3 }fR, NEARY: Might I also suggest, Sir, that included in these make-work programmes that we concentrate on recreational facilities for residents and tourist alike, parks, barbecues, picnic tables, games areas, wading pools for tots and an inclosed swimming pool built under the Provincial Recreation~l Plan all designed to make Bell Island one of the top tourist attractions in our Province. As I said, Mr.

Speaker, it might not be such a bad idea at all for this government to have a feasibility study done by the federal and provincial governments with a view to building a causeway or a tunnel to link Bell Island with the local mainland~ mainly, Mr. Speaker, to provide our unemployed miners l-1ith a work that is an alternative to welfare. }ffi. MURPHY: I wonder if the hon. rnember Hould permit a short question? I am wondering with reference to the mine system itself is there a tunnel at all coming to~;ards Portugal Cove way or is it all going out on the other side of the bay? MR. NEARY: No, Mr.

Speaker, all the mining is done on the other side of Bell Island. There is no mining done on this side towards the Tickle. It is an unusual situation When the upheaval took place Bell Island was right up at the top of one leg of iron ore which goes out towards the hon. the Premier's home ~n Harbour Grace. I might say,for the information of the hon. the member for St. John's Centre,that most of the work that was done underground in the submarine mine on Bell Island was done.by hand, as the hon. the Premier prooably knows, }!r.

Speaker, because a lot of the miners who. worked on Bell Island came from the north shore of Conception Bay. These men would not mind going back to the old system if they were· given the opportunity to earn a good livelihood for themselves and their families. Mr. Speaker, there would be no difficulty at all, in my opinion, if we were to use Bell Island for a pilot project in these make-work programmes. There would be little difficulty,in my opinion, in convincing ' 151

April 25, 1972 Tape 61 PK - 4 ~m. NEARY: the Government of Canada,and they have already set aside $5 million for this,to use Bell Island as a test area for the guaranteed annual income. The han. the Premier,in the October election, 152

April 25, 1972 Tape No. 62 NC - 1 prior to the October election spoke about the guaranteed annual income, t·!r, Speaker. I was most interested in Hhat he had to Hay about it because I ~ad been in Otta~·7a, had several meetings 1dth Mr. Honroe and his officials, .No mention in the '·larch 24 election about the guarantee I annual income and I hope that the han. Premier and the government have not dropped it from their list of priorities because, Hr. Speaker, there is money available in Ottawa, to all the provinces, to carry out a pilot project, the guaranteed annual income in every province of Canada. !l_O_N.

PREMIER_:_ ~lhy 1vas it not done? MR. NEARY: Hr. Speaker, the reason it was not done vras because the Qovernment of Canada, the Department of National Health and \\Tel fare \~as still researching a similar project down in the United States and they had not completed their research and vtere not in a position at the time I resigned from the Departtnent to go ahead with the programme. I am really interested in these make-worlt projects and I think that Bell Island Hould be the ideal place to experiment vJith job creation along with the guarar:teed annual income.

Ottawa would pay the bill, that is the advantage of it. ~~at only would Otta1va pay the bill, Mr. Speaker but it would double the assistance that people are gettinr, now from the provincial taxpayers to be I kept on this morale-eroding social assistance programme. Mr. Speaker, I would also like to see a continuance of the assistance on a more systematic basis to Bell Island residents interested in cattle raising, hog breeding, poultry, egg farming, green houses, sheep raising, horne gardening and commercial fishing on Bell Island, that would do a great deal to further reduce welfare roles in that district.

He will of course, Hr. Speaker, look forward to the special committee announced by the hon. Premier to im2rove ferry services for all insular communities in our province and especially, as the han. gentleman himself informed this han. House, better and less expensive ferry service for the sixty-five hundred continuing residents of Bell Island. Now, Mr. Speaker, I make a final plea with regard to the preservation of Bell Island's comrnuaity identity in any redistribution of electoral districts. 153

April 25, 1972 Tape No. 62 NC - 2 We all recognize, Mr. Speaker, certain unfair distributions under our present electoral district set up but we also must be careful not to force into a sinp,le electoral district such dissimilar elements as the people of Bell Island and those of any St. John's districts,as an example. I do not' think they would be compatable and I am sure that that is not vJhat the hon. Premier intends to do. I hope, Mr. Speaker, that he ~.,rill follow his line of reasoning that I have heard him 3tate both inside and outside this House and set up an independent couunission, Mr.

Speaker, to attempt to bring,to assemble the people with different attitudes, different psychology, to bring these people together would be disastrous, both geographically, economically, socially, demographically and psychologically. I think, ~fr. Speaker, that it would result more in bitterness and division rather than achieving the kind of unity of purpose which ~•e need so badly in this province of ours at this particular point in our histo'I'y. Mr. Speaker, in conclusion, ulay I say that it 'is customary for the lead-off speaker in the opposition to bring in a vote of non-confidence in the government.

This time, Sir, my colleagues and I have agreed to forego this tradition, not because we have confidence in the government, we do not, but because we feel on this side of the honotlrable House that the Government must now produce, and the people of Newfoundland and Labrador will be the best judge as to whether they have earned their right to govern this province or did they fluke their way to power with a lot of hallow promises. Thank you, Hr. Speaker. MR. OTTENHEI~ffiR lG.R.): Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is a tradition in this House and I believe perhaps in this House somewhat unique, in that in the debate.on the Address in ~eply many members speak on the needs of their district and oQviously members of the opposition criticize government and members of the government may wish to respond to that but we do have this continuing tradition of relating to the districts we represen~ Although this has at times been subject to crfticism I think it is a very worthwhile custom to continue especially those of us who represent rural districts.

It is very valuable as a source of information from other members of the llouse,and by that I am not excluding the value that it may have for people in urban districts as well,but it is certainly much more important for those of us who represent 154

April 25, 1972 Tape No. 62 NC - 3 rural districts. I have a few comments to make upon the remarks of the previous speaker and then plan to say a few words about the dist ric t tha~ I am pleased to represent. I listened carefully to the hon . member for Bel~ Island and I know that he had the ~md ivided attention of all hon. members of the House . You know, Hr . Speaker, if we ask ourselves to define the speech of the hon . gentleman I think one would have to say,and this is not criticism, this is not personal whatsoever, what was it ?

I think he was quite right to do so , it was inevitable that it be done , it was inevitable , it was necessary, it was blatant but what was it~ It was a catalogue of the res ults of n e ~lect and,in the case of the dis trict he represents ,add to that neglect,de~eption.

An ahl~. quite thorGOgh , interesting and necessa r y catalogue • of the result of ne glect which many of us will be in a position to do but also i n that cas e, i n the case of Bell Island, the result not only of neglect but of deception. \olith 't'espect to the matter of redistribution which the hon. gentl eman referred to, I think all I need to say there is repeat what is in the Speech from the Thron e, "i t i s this govern ment's intention to have an independent commission per iodically review and make recommendations to t he tegislatu re I 1·7ith res pect to redistribution , bearing in mind the 155

April 25, 1972, Tape 63, Page 1 --- apb 1-'!n. OTTENHEIPER: E::hanginp populations and various geographic circumstances, geographic and demographic circumstances. He ~-rish to put an end to gerrymanderinr and such an independent commission tvill put an end to p.errymanderinp and there is no other Hay to put an end to gerrymanderinr:. vie can say, but it is rather idle, it is rather el'lpty, it is rather stupid to say that since Confederation the P. C. 's have never gerrymandered. V.1e have never had the opportunity, obviously • We have never been in government before.

He can also say that the redistrlbution in tl1e past, and tve can say this tJith great validity, redistribution in the past has shmm that gerrymanderinr- nentality and that this province and the electoral set up,as it nmv is, is the result of gerrymandering. The only thing that He of the administration can take credit for is that in our first election to office He irrevocably, irretrievably put an end to this kind of political skulduggery by stating in the Speech from the Throne the government's intention and policy to establish an independent commission that obviously is binding on us.

If and ~•hen the day arrives that hon. gentlemen opposite or their successors form a government, it tvill be eQually binding on them because the p~ople of Ne~rroundland 1 I am quite sure,will no longer stand for any gerrymandering. That is my only brief comment upon the reference to redistribution that the member for Bell Island made. Hr.

Speaker, I think one can say t-Yithout being platitudinous that in the House and indeed in the province, I suppose this House in a sense is a reflection of the province, we are all elected from the province, there is a netJ political atmosphere, and that is to be ~'elcomed by us. I think it is ¥1elcomed by most and perhaps all hon. pentlemen on the opposite side. I think in the House and in the province tJe can look fonmrd to a political life which is issue oriented and not personality oriented. This is to be tvelcomed and I am sure this is tvelcome the people of Newfoundland.

I think the same thing applies here as applies to redistribution. I really do not think the people of 156

April 25, 1972, Tape 63, Page 2 -- aph Newfoundland will stand any longer for the personal acrimony and abuse and really insult of the intelligence of the people of Ne~~foundland which has gone on for too lon!!' in our political life. I have heard it said that if you talr:e the old guts and insults and that out of politics people l?ill lose interest. That I think is a lot of baloney and that is selling the people of Newfoundland very short. The interest of the people of this province in their political future is very, very deep.

The fact that l>Te do not notJ have the hour-lonr diatribes ;md the name calling and the so called drama, the talk ad infinitum and even ad nauseam does not mean there is not interest. I think there is a much deeper interest but a much cooler kind of interest, a much more detached and intG!lligent and issue-based kind of interest.

It is evident from last October's election the turn-out at the polls which was very hip:h in the province, I know in St. ¥ary's over ninety percent - indeed in the election last ~larch throu~hout the Province •the turn-c-ut ~~as very high and again the district t-7hich I represent,and it is an entirely rura .l district, was approximately eighty-nine percent. So, there is a very high level of political interest and political awareness and this is to be welco~ed and encouraged. I th:ink to be true to that we have to keep our debates, our discussions and our differences issue oriented.

We on this side are aware ( I should say the possible quip before one of my friends opposite say it) l·Te are at-rare of the role and responsibility of the opposition and well 1you mip,ht add,should you, because at least thjs party has fulfilled that role for a number of years.

Quite apart from that, we as a government are at.;rare of that role and aware of that responsibility. vle appreciate the rieed and the value that a !l:ood oppositio~, the value of a !l:OOd opposition and we on our part, t.;re as a government welcome constructive opposition and indeed const~uctive comments and all suggestions for the betterment of legislation and the betterment of government which hon. J!entlemen may wish to make. It is our hope to reinforce the role of Parliament, the role 157

.. April 25, 1972, Tane 63, Page 3 -- aph of the Legislature, the role of the House of Assembly in Newfoundland. I think this has been,for a number of reasons and because of a number of circumstances,undermined in the past. This I think can be :\ccomplished a number of ways,tvith the increased use of committees, with revised and more contemporary rules, more tuned to modern needs and modern practices and 1 of course,by the v.overnment livin~ up to its responsibility of makin!! information available to members of the Lep.islature.

No lonp:er '1-riJ 1 this House of .A.ssemhly he nsked to sign blank cheques ,lvhich has J:!:One on too lonf!: in the past. And those cheaues proved to be very expensive, Hr. Speaker. }~any millions of dollars, tens of millions of dollars signed atvay in blank chen1,1es. Ho.n. j!entlemen know, of this government's intention to in'troduce conflict of interest legislation. The Leader of the Opposition made a point on opening day and obviously a very valid point,that p~rhaps no jurisdiction has found a fool-proof system to eliminAte conflict of interest.

That may well be true, but that does not discourage us from endeavouring to get the best possible legislation to eliminate conflict of interest situatj_ons with resnect to mt>..111bers of the government, members of the Legi~lature and indeed people in the public service who may be. because of their function ancJ. because of their access to information, in the same kind of potential situation. The hon. gentleman.who spoke before,stated his opinion that the Speech from the Throne in t•arch was too lonp; and the one in April l>ras too short.

Well, that could be but we do not anticipate any more for a fetJ years but when the time does come we will endeavour to !!,Ct one some~That in bett-reen. I think thou!_:!h, t-<r. Speaker, you t-rill ap;ree that these two documents although this is a debate on the Address in Reply to the Speech from the Throne, the last one obviously, these two documents form a unit, form a coherent entity and should really be read together. The document delivered in March presents in some detail, some depth and some elaboration at some lenp:th- some might say at too 158

April 25, 1972, Tape 63, Page 4 -- apr. much length. Fair enough! Fair comment !-but still at some length this government's overall approach and philosophy to the development of the province. To a very lar~e extent one could say that the Speech from the Throne delivered "lust a fet~ davs ago is in many ways a capsu~e, a restatement in a summarized form,and that I think is to be expected under the circumstances. It is a policy which emphasizes 159

April 25, 1972 Tape 64 JM - 1 MR.

OTTENHEIMER: the development of our resource-based industries, development of the fishery and of all our natural resources, a policy and an approach which shows an awareness, the importance of maintaining and improving where necessary the policy of our environment and while showing an awareness of the growing needs and growing problems of urban areas states unequivocally the government's commitment to the principle of rural development, states unequivocally this government's faith in rural Newfoundland and determination to implement,during our mandate of four or five years,policies and programmes which will strengthen the economic base of rural Newfoundland.

I suppose there are a few districts which probably are more ' typical of rural Newfoundland than the one that I represent, St. Mary's Bay. Many of our districts are rural and the problems in a number of them are quite similar but not identical. I said before that the hon. member from Bell Island's speech was really a catalogue of neglect 1 and that I added deception for that district. I think as I talk briefly about St. Mary's,one can also say it is a catalogue of neglect and I stop there. It is a catalogue of neglect.

You know I during the twenty-three years of that great and wonderful administration which my hon. friend referred to, that administration without which there would be no Labrador City, no Wabush, no Iron Ore Company of Canada, no Labrador, no iron ore on the ground, no men with vision, no men with money, no men with immagination, no men with determination, nothing, maybe not even Labrador. Really, Mr. Speaker, this is the repetition of a myth which died in October. Myths last a long time, Some of them centuries- some of them have lasted centuries.

We had one lasted almost a quarter of a century but it has been buried.· T.here is no future in resurrecting myths, Mr. Speaker, because there is no one in Labrador City,be he Liberal or Progressive Conservative 160

April 25, 1972 Tape 64 JM- 2 MR. OTTENHEIMER: or anything else or in any other part of the Province,who today thinks tha~ we have to get down on our hands and knees and thank any indi .. idual or any administration or any government because everything happened the past twenty-three years came only because that administration waSthere. l.J'ould Labrador not be there without the administration? Would the iron ore not be there? Certainly the government was there. The administration was there too 1 to act as a catalyst,to bring people together, to encourage.

What in the name of heavens would that government or any other government be doing?

But let us get over, let us forget this myth that everything that has happened, the sun that shines in Labrador or anywhere else or the ore that is in the ground or the fact that there are people who are interested in developing mining, that there are people who are interested in extracting wealth from the ground and developing it and developing industries, that there are labour union leaders who are committed to this and willing to work hard with their union members in order to bring about development for the over-all good of the Province, that all of this happened only because there was this administration or that administration.

I That is a lot of hogwash. We know it. I know the hon. gentleman knows it. The people of Newfoundland know it. So let us no longer pay lip service to a myth which was buried because there are those of us who wish to show respect for memory.or historical appreciation or anything else for any gentleman who led that administration. There are I think much.more sensible ways of doing it rather than re~rrecting a corpse which has now decomposed. Now, Mr.

Speaker, quite apart from that,- that, one may say, is a partisan consideration and where this well may be regarded as such- however 1 quite apart from that,the attitude behind it is dangerous. 161

April 25, 1972 Tape 64 JM - 3 MR. OTTENHEIMER: The attitude behind it is dangerous because it would be just as wrong if people were to try to create a myth that everything is going to happen in the next four years, happen only because this administration happens to be here. Because really government can do a lot, government must do a lot but let us not get ourselves in the ridiculous position of thinking that government can solve all of our problems, Bell Island or St. Mary's Bay or Labrador West or Newfoundland or Canada or anywhere. Government can do a lot.

Government should provide the opportunity, the stimulation, the encouragement, at times the knowledge and the research and bring people together,but there are a lot of problems facing this province. We are aware of the responsibility of the mandate we received quite overwhelmingly in March. We are aware of the need for a new approach to the social and. economic development of this province. We know, Mr.

Speaker, and every hon. gentleman knows that the social and economic development of this province and a new approach to government and a kind of prosperity and the kind of development we all want for this province depends on a lot of things. Hard work by the gov~rnment certainly. Hard work by this House and all who are in it certainly but also hard work and initiative and immagination by the people throughout this province. So let us not set government up as a ~od,no matter what government it be,because by doing that perhaps we could flatter our own egos but we grossly insult the people.

So as I say,that myth has been buried, it is finished. Quite apart from partisan considerations it is a dangerous approach because it sets government_, any governmen~up on a kind of pedestal where it should not be and forgets that while government gives initiative and direction and encouragement and at times financial assistance and at times research and knowledge and brings people together and 162

April 25, 1972 Tape 64 JM - 4 MR. OTTENHEIMER: helps and guides and directs still the real spark and the real drive and , the real work has to be done by the people. That is the way it has to be in our kind of society and the only opposite to that is some kind of a totalitarian society where the government says everything has to be done and tells everybody what to do,and that we do not have and obviously that we do not want. Mr.

Speaker, during the twenty-three years of the previous administration,the district that I represent was also subject to neglect? a different kind of neglect than that referred to by my friend, the member from Bell Island, but neglect. I think the basic needs and problems in St. Mary's Bay and there are many of them and I am just going to give the basic ones, one,an adequate transportation system and,number two 1development of resource-base industries.

Now thinking in terms of transportation systems, during twenty-three . years of that former administration.twelve miles of road were paved and I should add one hundred feet. Five miles approximately paved in Mt. Carmel, ten miles on the Salmonier Line, two miles in St. Joseph's and in the community of St. Mary's one hundred feet,and I this was done within twenty-three years and most of it within the last two or three years of that twenty-three years, all of it. Now, Mr. Speaker, this obviously has hindered tremendously the development of St. Mary's Bay as it would hinder tremendously any part of this province.

The people of the district have a right to e~ect that they too will receive their fair share of resources and encouragement and development and public services and roads and indeed their just expectation and the just expectation of people throughout the province will be met. It is generally know, Mr. Speaker, that tenders have been called and a contract awarded for the completion of the road from Branch to North Harbour or I should say 163

Apr.il 25, 1972 Tape 64 JM- 5 MR. OTTENHEIHER: for a further eight miles and then there is approximately another eight miles and the road will be completed. It might be interesting to know that this road was started about ten or eleven years ago and left for ten years without anythi ng being done with it and then last spring for reasons completely inscru tabl e, nobody could snake a guess why after nine years nothing beinR done ,why after nine years the great interest again. Now as I say there are people who could make suggestions that it was because tne election was coming up and thinRs like that, Mr. Speaker, but 164

April 25, 1972 MR. OTTENHEIMER: Tape no. 65 Page 1 - MRW It is really difficult to say. However, I am pleased to say that while that ten miles was done in ten years, all of it done the first year of that ten years, that this administration has now called tenders for 'the next eight miles and that leaves approximately another eight miles which no doubt should be completed next year. It is also, of course, our intention to give St. Mary's Bay and areas of the Province a kind of transportation system that they have a right to expect.

With respect to the fishery, Mr Speaker, and the federal government's participation and role there, a couple of very interesting things have in a sense come to light (they have not come to light, from the papers they were quite obvious). As all members are probably aware, the federal government claim now to be making quite some progress in negotiations with Spain, Portugal,in order to relieve the intensity of fishing on the Grand Banks.

I think we are all aware as well that if international agreement or unilateral action, which ever it is but preferably international agreement, is not reached then there is a very, very serious risk of eliminating that fishery resource. We have from the federal government the fact that they are very close to concluding an agreement with Spain, close to concluding an agreement with Portugal and also in Ichnya area that they are close to getting 1 an agreement there whereby there will be quotns and presumably this will at least help the situation with respect to the possible depletion of the fish stocks.

Then on the reverse side of that coin we learn and I saw, yesterday and the day before in St. Mary's Bay1 land-based herring fishermen precluded from supplementing their income and from taking any

part in the her;ring fishery because of the presence of seiners in some cases a few feet, a few yards from the shore. Now the regulations as they now read, the federal regulations as they now read prohibit seiners from fishing in such a way as to interfere with place:l. gear, set gear. But how ludicrous is the situation when these seiners can fish in an area where there is a very narrow mouth, a very narrow inlet. They can fish in such an area so as to rule out the possibility of anybody wanting to set any gear because no herring can get in. Now this is a federal regulation. We would hope that there can be some 165

April 25, 1972 Tape no, 65 Page 2 Mr. Ottenheimer changes made there but the point is that in their international negotiations the federal government presumably has adopted the attitude, the right attitude,that the coastal state has priorities upon its resource. Because of the coastal state, our geographical proximity and social and economic dependence, it has priority for the development of the resource. This is a position they take with respect to foreign countries. It is a right one and we wish that they would take it more strongly and wish they had taken it sooner. The position basically is sound.

But within Canada they do not share this view. Within Canada they will not concede that the inhabitants of a province or of a bay have the same kind of geographic dependence and social and economic dependence upon that resource as Canada as a nation does. r Put Canada up against Germany or Japan or anywhere else, obviously we have a preferential claim because of our dependence on the resource of the water adjacent to us. But to be consistent the federal government should also recognize the validity of that premise in terms of the provinces, in terms of Newfoundland, in terms of our various bays.

They take the attitude presumably that what we want is a maximum sustainable yield for the herring. But they do not take necessarily that attitude internationally. The other attitude I has a great validity and that is quite apart from the maximum sustainable yield in a mathematical formula. There are also the social and economic needs of people living in proximity to that resource 1 who had a dependence on that resource either for their li~ihood or for a suppleme~t to their livelihood.

I would hope that this same attitude which Canada is projecting in international negotiations, based on the premise of the coastal state priority to the resources on its coast, would also be applied, let us say 1constitutionally w1thin Canada and that the federal government would see that the same line of reasoning has a validity which would apply to the provinces and to the various bays. 166

April 25, 1972 Tape no. 65 Page 3 MR. OTTENHEIMEK: Mr. Speaker, in conclusion, let me say that the people whom I am pleased to represent and indeed throughout the Province, the people throughout the Province in a very large majority, have faith and confidence in this administration. We in this government are aware of the deep responsibility that gives us. We are aware of the hard work and hard years ahead. We have faith in ourselves and in the future of the Province.

We intend, as a government, to work hard with the legislature and with the people throughout Newfoundland in every bay, every coast, Labrador and the Island, the interior, every part, because we cannot afford the luxury of little separatisms in this Province. \~e intend, as a government, thi.s to work hard ourselves, to work hard with~~.egislature and to work hard with and for the people of Newfoundland.

We think that within the four or five years in which we have to exercise the mandate that we received a short time ago, we can and indeed will bring benefit, development and social and economic progress to this Province. That is what we are here for. That is what hon. gentlemen opposite are here for. That is what we, as a government, intend to do. We invite your participation in it. MR. SPEAKER: The Chair recognizes the bon. member for Bonavista South. MR. J. C. MORGAN: Mr.

Speaker, as I rise to support the motion so ably I put by the hon. member for Trinity North and seconded by the bon. member for Labrador West, I stand filled with pride, filled with pride for two reasons:First,to be representing a district like Bonavista South, being a Bonavista bayman, a native Bonavista bayman; and secondly because I stand with a government that realizes and recognizes the problems of my district, indeed the problems of rural Newfoundland. For the first time in so many years rural Newfoundland is f·inally seeing a ray of light, bringing hope to the outport communities.

For so long these small outport communities,like those in Bonavista South, have floundered around in frustration, not knowing where they were going. 167

April 25, 1972 Tape no. 65 Page 4 MR. MORGAN Mr. Speaker, the gracious Speech from the Throne to me is evidence that this government will take the necessary steps to build a strong rural Newfoundland, to develop the small outport communities, building on the foundation of our primary resources. That is the kind of government I stand with. Now, Mr. Speaker, maybe if I would say that I would go along with the things that the bon. member for St. Mary's District has already said and sit down , it would be fine. But, Mr.

Speaker, in my district, I have thirty-nine communities and all of these communities have individual separate problems and the question mark has been in the past and the question mark is still there-what shall we do with these hundreds of small communities scattered along the rural parts of this Province, the outport r communities, some of them isolated and others semi-isolatedt The· question mark has been in the past, what will we do? The question mark is still there. Shall we give them. the services they so rightly deserve? Shall we relocate them, centralize these communities and give them the services?

The big difference is, Mr. Speaker, that in the past that question has been answered by a few people, this I am strongly opposed to. A small committee of people sitting in this building here, Confederation Building, and making a decision affecting the lives of hundreds, thousands of rural Newfoundlanders, without these people themselves being involved. I am confident that this government are not going to be the kind of government that will make decisions without involving the people 168

April 25, 1972. Tape 66 Page 1. Now a few days ago the Ron. the Premier mentioned that the watchword in the most Gracious Speech from the Throne was planning. Rightly so Mr. Speaker, hut most important of all proper planning. Proper planning in my opin.ion is the planning where people themselves are fully involved. If we are going to make plans for the future destiny of hundreds of small communities,we must involve these people in making the plans for the future. Now, Mr.

Speaker, I know and each and every member of this House of Assembly , whether he is on the opposition side of the House or on this side of the House, whether he is a bon. mihister or just an bon. member like I am. We know that to give these small communities the services they so rightly deserve is going to be a very costly venture.

That is tvhy a short time ago,just prior to the election, it was very disappointing to me to learn that after two-and-a-half years of having a federal agreement signed tvith this province to develop the rural parts of this province - I am talking about the ARDA Agreement - ~fter two and a half years we have yet to have a project approved by the federal government. Now, Hr. Speaker, why is this? Now to me the AR.ffi\ Agreement i.s a gimmick. I say this on thf basis that first of all we had the FRED programme. We got nothing from it from the federal government.

Then came the DREE Spe t~ ial Areas which was working in co-ordination t>rith the rese ·ttlement programme whe1;e we see als.o participation at the federal level. We see these two programmes working in co-ordination, the DREE special areas programme and a resettlement which tvas based mainly on the objective of resettling these small communities and centralizing the services. Then along came ARDA which is supposed to be,Mr.

Speaker, supposed to be the planned programme to develop the rural parts of the province. .we have one programme des:l.gned to centralize and resettle these communities~ and another to develop them- there seems to be conflict. Maybe that is the reason t>rhy after two-and-a -half years of a programme to develop the small communities that ,.,e have yet to have 169

April 25 • 1972 . Tape 66 Page 2 . a programme or project approved. However, Mr. Speaker, I am confident that this government will be working in close liaison with the federal government programmes whether they be the special resources programme, the highways agreement, Pree tlpecial areas or the ARDA agreement. lve will be working with the federal government on these programmes to make sure that a p.roper planning is c-arried out. We will stand in in Ottawa,not begging for something to be done for these 170

April 25, 1972. Tape 67 Page 1. rural areas. I am sure this government will stand pointing out that these projects are feasible and giving good solid reasons why the federal government should put money in the outport areas of this province. Now, Mr, Speaker, I knmv as I stand and expound and expand and outline the problems in Bonavista South it is heartening to me to know that it is fallitJg on the ears of people who care, on the hon. ministers of thls government, people who care for these outport areas. In regard to the problems, Bonavista South has many problems.

There is one major problem consisting of a road going down through Bonavista SouJ;h District. I think it was three years agoJMr. Speaker, these people seem to have been left out completely. They were ttanding in a position of knowing they were left out. A feeling of pessimism was going through these communities. I am talking about the communities going do"~ through the Bonavista South coast from Charleston to Bonavista.

The main reason for this feeling of pessimism was the fact that a new highroad was going down through central Bonavista Peninsula, going away fvom these co~~unities and going to the Trinity Bay side. These fifteen communities felt that the government was going to leave them out, I think the justificatiop in feeling that way was the fact that the services we~e not going to these communities. They were not getting half decent roads to drive over.

The highway department seemed to have a feeling that we•no longer want to spend money i~ this area, these people will relocate, because the main highway and transportation system is going dmm the other way. Mr. Speaker, I assure you that none of these communities want to relocate, They are viable communities. They are communities that want to develop, But this road is still there. That major problem is still there, despite the petitions from committees of church, school and other concerned citizens in that district.

Ever since 1959 they have been sending in petitions, sending in requests to goverr~ent,'please do some­ thing with our roads. We are transporting each and every day hundreds of 171

April 25, 1972. Tape 67 Page 2. children. The roads are hazardous,'' That has been coming in to this government or to the previous government for the past ten, twelve years hut the problem is still thereJ lt still exists. Road conditions are the same now as they were ten, twelve years ago, down through Bonavista South. However,Mr. Speaker, I am confident that this government is going to recognize the need for establishing a priority when it comes to roads and gravel roads in this province. That is that where school children are transported daily these roads must be given priority.

Now I think that each and every honourable member realizes the fact that to give the outport children the educational facilities they should rightly so deserve that we must centralize educational'facilities. But to centralize them in areas like Bonavista South,the educational promoters there are very reluctant to do this on the basis of having to transport their children daily over such roads as we have in Bonavists South. Mr. Speaker, the people in my district have indicated to the previous administration, they are doing so today,that they are the kind of people who want to help themselves.

They have established development associations, I am speaking of the Eastport Development Committee and the Bonavista I Central Development Association. These people are very eager to push forward and get some development in their areas, because }fr, Speaker as we stand on the threshold of this twenty-first century these small communities have finally been reached ' by the tentacles of progress. rhey are standing up, 172

April 25, 1972 Tape 68 PK - 1 MR. MORGAN: they arestanding up and demanding attention, demanding government attention. The responsible citizens there are making sure that these problems are brought fonvard to government and receive the necessary attention. Now, Mr. Speaker, the most gracious Speech from the Throne laid some emphasis on the development of small industries. In my district I have talked to many small business people who are not qualified to obtain the necessary funds from the federal Department of Regional Economic Expansion.

They are not qualified because of the nature of their business and the size of their business. To me it is very encouraging to see in the most gracious ~peech from the Throne that this government intend to set up a provincial special grants programme where small business places would be able to avail of provincial funds, if they are unable to qualify for funds from the federal level. Mr. Speaker, the natural resources in my district have been neglected an~ I am speaking in particular of two natural resources; the forestry and the fishery.

Now it was not too long ago, I think it was less than two years ago that I came to the previous government seeking some help merely to have a certain number, I think it was three, three forest aacessroads opened up in the wintertime, not to be upgraded, not to be constructed, just to be plowed to keep the snow off these roads in the winter months, to enable the sawmill operators to go in and cut the necessary logs. Mr. Speaker, that request was turned down.

But I am sure that this government,laying its priority on the development of our natural resources, I am looking forward to having a number of forest access~oads, not only the ones that presently exist,having these upgraded and reconstructed ~~here necessary, but I am looking forward to getting a number of new roads constructed because there are quite a_few sawmill operators there eager to develop their business and expand their business, ~ut right now the situation is they are unable 173

. April 25 ~ 1972 Tap~e 68 PK - 2 MR. NORGAN: to get to where the logs are. Mr. Speaker, speaking of the fisheries, there is one thing I want to emphasis forthe future,while I stand in this honourable House of Assembly 1 and that is wherever funds are being spent in my district at least whether it is a federal government project or a provincial government project, whenever there are federal funds or provincial funds spent, I want to make sure that these funds are spent properly.

When I say being spent properly, there is only one way to do it that is go in and talk to the fishermen, find out what the fishermen want. I will give you, Mr. Speaker,and the hon~ members of this House an example: Three or four years ago the federal government spent a very substantial amount of money in the Town of Bonavista to construct a longliner slipway. It is still there. It is a beautiful looking slipway. Oh, yes, but the main fault about it is the fact that fishermen cannot use it. The fishermen have not used it and the~ cannot use it today because of the design of that project. It was designed wrong.

The reason why, in my opinion, is because the local fishermen, they are the fishermen who are going to use these facilities,were not con­ sulted as tq what they wanted. But I am confident in the future,after listeniD$ to the hon. the Premier and other hon. ministers of this government 1 that we will,before spending funds in communi~y to establish marine or fishing facilities that we will consult the fishermen and find out exactly what facilities they want supplied to them. While I am on the subject, Mr. Speaker, of the fisheries .1 I have to refer briefly to that great conservationist we have in Ottawa today.

The great 174

April 25, 19 72 Tape No. 69 NC - 1 the great conservationist in the person of the hon. Minister of the Environment. Yes he is going to conserve the salmon fishing stocks along the eastern coast of Canada. Maybe next year he will start to conserve the salmon fishing stocks along the east coast of Newfoundland as well, until he h~s taken the whole east coast of Canada, conserving the fishing stocks. But Mr.

Speaker, I think each and every hon. member of this House of Assembly realizes that it is not the Ne,~foundland fishery or the Newfoundland fishermen, T.he problem is not with the Ne~1foundland fishermen, the prdblem lies with countries like Denmark and it is surprising to me that the previous government sat for so many years without even putting any influence, having any influence or even attempting to have any influence with the federal authorities and taking the necessary steps to conserve the fishery stocks along our continental coast.

Ilowever,I feel confident that this government will be standing up ,if you 1dsh ,for this province, standing up for our natural resources along the continental shelf and 1 hope that after . the next number of months that this government's influence in Ottawa Hill be a great one and that it '~ill finally have the necessary steps taken by the External Affairs Department in Ottawa to conserve our natural resources on the continental. coast. J Hr.

Speaker, one other item I would like to mention regarding the most gracious Speech from the Throne and that is the concern of this government to establish and supply adequate medical services and facilities mainly to the rural areas of this province. Indeed it \vas extremely good neviS for me to hear in the Speech from the Throne tl\at was re11d at our Thirty-fifth Sess-ion of the General Assf'mbly that the construction of a nE'w regional hospital to serve the Bonavista Peninsula .is in thE' plans, This is extremely good ne~~s to me and to the residents of the Bonavi s.ta Peninsula because I know, as the han.

Minister of Health will agree that if the communjties have not p,ot the adequate medical facilities,it is going to he impossible to obtain adequate medical services. So in conclusion, Hr. Speaker, the needs of my district are very demanding and,of course, I ,.,ill be demanding as a representative for tl::tat district, in the next number of years~but 1 am confident that the district of Bonavista South 175

April 25, 1972 Tape NO. - 69 NC -· 2 ~~ill develop in the fm:. ur-e, it '"ill Cleve lop the same as the other rural areas of the province like Trinity Bay, St. '1ary's Day, r.onc.eption llay, l'~otre Dame Bay. It 'vill be developed by the plans of this government and it is only hy developinp, a strong rural ~levTfoLmdland can this province stand strong, I am sure in the next ten, fifteen years 1 afte.r developing a stronr. rural ~~ev.•foundland that we can stand proud in this great Confederation of ours. 176

April 25, 1972 Tape No. 70 NC - 1 ~ON. W~~-MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, before we: continue farther ~rith the debate there are a couple of motions that 1 should like to have leave of the House to present. First of all I would like to ask leave of the House to amend the Standing Orders of this House, rules and regulations, Standing Order 4 3A, for '~hich we require unanimous consent. ~lR. SPEN<ER: Docs the hon. member have unanimous consent? Agreed. ~!R. HARSHALL: Then, 'lr.

Speaker, I nol'' move that paragraph "a" of Standing Order 43 of the Standing Orders be amended by deleting therefrom the 1vords, "as soon as an address to the Speech from the Throne," deleting those words from the paragraph. Nm.r the effect of that will be, Mr. Speaker, as it presently exists there can be no deputy speaker nor chairman of committees elected until the Speech from the Throne is over anc the Address in Reply to the Speech from the Throne.

He do not kno"r the reason for this, but this vrould prevent a member taking the Chair as' deputy speaker or taking the Chair as Chairman of Committees and we ''ant to amend and to change this · to_ relieve the Speaker, because He will not be throup.h the Address in Reply for a little while now.

So the effect then 1hy deleting these words,will be that paragraph "a" will read, "the Chairman of Committees who shall also be Deputy Speaker of the House shall be elected at the commencement of every ) Parliament and the member so elected shall, if in his place in the House, take the Chair of all committees of thew hole including the Committee of Supply and ivays and }leans. I make this motion seconded by the hon. the member for i-lhite Bay South. MR. SPEAKER: I do not have a copy of,this said motion but I assume everybody understands it.

It has been moved and seconded that this change be made in the Standing Orders. Carried •. HON. F. D. HOORES: Mr. Speaker, I would like at this time to nominate the hon. member for Placentia \Vest to the position of Deputy Speaker, That motion has been seconded by the hon. Leader of the Opposition, and the Chairman of Debates as lvell, Hr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: It has been moved and seconded that the hon. member for Placentia ------ \Vest be nomin·ated as Deputy Speaker and Chairman of Co11U11ittees. Carried. 177

April 25, 19 72 Tape No. · 70 NC - 2 MR. PF.CKFORD: Hr. Speaker, may I say at the outset that I am very proud to stand in the Rouse of Assembly today and represent a district, the district of Green Say, '.:hich for the last century or so has not seen a representative from the Progressive Conservative Party. · Hence l:lesides just being a member of the House I think I have an added reason to be proud because,Mr. Speaker, the district of Green Bay is a great and historic district.

It is a district that over the last several decades has contributed to the economy of this province in a\any different fields • In the area of forestry and mining and fishing and even in ar,riculture, the ois t rict of Green Bay has made a si~ificant contribution. However, Hr . Speaker, in the last five years or so this district has run into serious times. ~!ost hon. members are aware no doubt that Green Bay was, I suppose still is,to some extent, a district that contributed 178

April 25, 1972, Tape 71, Page 1 -- apb ' T_ .. _P_~C!_FOR_D. He greatly to the mining economy of this province had at one time in the District of Green Bay four mines in operation. There ~.ras one at Tile Cove on the northside of Green Bay, one in Little Bay, one in l,'halesback ~.rhich is still in operaU .on and one at Gull Pond. As of June 3, there ~Till be no mines in Green Bay.

Due to the fact that these mines t~ere in operation and attracted people from various occupations and because of the nearsighted attitude of the previous ad~inistration towards the other occupations such as fanning. forestry and fishin!!", we find ourselves in a real dilemma in Green Bay. It \.Jas for this reason, 1-'r . Speaker, that not too long ago, in the last year,th~t a ~roup of individuals in the Springdale Area formed themselves into the Green Bay Economic Development Association.

I am pleased to report of,course, that that economic association now has coll\munication with the government and hopes that in the next year or so to attract some .1obs to the area. Nr. Sneaker, there is sornethin ? that bothers me a lot when we have talked in the last few years in this province about jobs. I think some of the other hon. members have already hit upon it and I would like to elaborate a little on it as well.

If a government once decides that there are a nl,lmber of rural communities in this province that are p.:oing to remain there, remain habitable for the foreseeable future, then I think it is the responsibility of government regardless of the cost to provide these communities with the basic services so badly needed• So that I think, simultaneouFly along with a policy of ' creating jobs,a government should not lose sight of the fact that at ·the same time a nu!'lber of very basic services should be provided. I do not know what other districts in this province, Hr.

Speaker, have as many islands and as m.any people living on islands as mine does; but in Green Bay there are three islands. There is Little Bay Island which mF a very strong fishing community for years a:nd still is. It maintains itself that way. I am very proud to say that,because there are so many parts of this island t.rhere the fish industry has 179

April 25, 1972, Tape 71, Page 2 -- apb taken a dip. Long Island with th~ communities of Beaumont and Lush's Bight and Sunday Cove Island with the communities of ~ 1 iles Cove and Port Anson, it seems to me that there is something that we have to do, I heard when I was j!rowing up, when I was going to school,about the curse of isolation. I guess I heard our former Premier say it , manv times. Of course, I suppose I thoufl:ht ~1hen I was getting older that the curse of isolation had disappeared, b.ut I find to my dismay that it is still there, very much a part of my district.

I think we l~ve to decide if these islands are viable economic units and will continue to be so in the next ten years. Then we must do everything possible to ensure that these individuals on these islands have as great an opportunity as is humanly possible for the education of their children, to~vards hospitals, towa~ds a more cultural milieu than has been previously the case in this area. I think it is the Sunday Cove Island that last year r~ceived some great news that a causeway was to be built from the mainland near Robert's Arm across to the island. Of course everybody was in glee.

They of course naturally assumed that once a contract was let for a causeway that of necessity a road would follow, because a causel-7ay goes across to th~ island 1 but then you have eight miles more to go before you reach anyb9dy livinP- anywhere. 180

April 25, 1972 Tape 72 PK- 1 ~m. PECKFORD: Unfortunately in the last two or three weeks I brought forth . the sad message that these people will have to do without a road for some time yet, because the contract that was given last year,for ~~~ j-.t1<..- rather obscure, ~ reasons, only covered the causeway. So here you have this heap of gravel standing out across the tickle and then you still have the people just as far away from any highway transportation system as they were { I was going to say 1497 hut I do not imagine there was anybody there the~. So, Mr.

Speaker, it seems that one of the first priorities of a government, of a member of this House must be to ensure that communities and islands around this Province- when I look at the hon. the member for Labrador South, being aware of that district fairly· well too, I know ~hat it must also hit home to him. One of the first things we must do is to make sure that these people have at least the very fundamental basic services that we take for granted and that it is no good, Mr.

Speaker, absolutely no good because the people will not see it that way,if we pursue an economic policy in the centre of Green Bay or in the centre of any district when these people have to leave their communities forty or fifty or sixty or eighty miles away and spent the $1.85 an hour that they are going to get,to get to work