P RELIHDJARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD: 8:00 p.n. - 11:00 n.m. Tuesday, April 26, 1977

April 26, 1977 Tape 1890 (Night) PK - 1 The House resumed at 8:00 P.H. Nr. Speaker in the Chair. HR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The han. member for Hindsor- Buchans. :IR. G. FLIGHT: Thank you, ~·1r. Speaker. The Minister of Transportation is not in his seat, so I will go to another subject. The subject I was on - I intended to use the last ten minutes or whatever I have left, eight minutes, pointing out what I consider, Mr. Speaker, - fu.'-1 HON. ME·1BER: You can go back now. ::-ffi..

FLIGHT: -the indifference, the unconcern, the incompetence of this administration 7incompetence proven this past year and a half, ~· 1r. Speaker, not going back twenty-three years, this last year and a half. Y.~e Minister of Transportation,as I pointed out,one full year - tte Ministry of Transportation -one full year to reconstruct two miles of highroad on the Trans-Canada High':vay. One full year! Mr. Speaker, can you imagine what would happen had that by-pass not been there, had that ,,rashout occurred anywhere there was no by-:- ass? Tne link, the main traffic route of this Province would have been cut~ :iR .

MORGAN : Nobody had a \vashout. MR. 'FLIGHT: So, Mr. Speaker, that is one example. Now very quickly, when I left I was talking about five miles of road built to government standards, government built roads, one of the best gravel roads in this Province today, and there .1.re very few people ,, including the members of this House, who even know it exists, And it is located forty miles up on the end of Price \·JOods roads up in Lloyds Lake area.

Four ]ears ago, to give you an example of priority and pla.."1.:i:J.g ':Jy this government - five :;ears a;o - about : our years ago I ~as a part o£ a delegatioc chat came in representiag the Local Im~rovement District of Buchans~pointing out that the mine future 1.;as in question, and that were things needed to be done to guarantee the operation, the viability of the ~ines. The ~Unister of Transportation at the time,'.vho is the present ~finister or Tourism. ''e had : '"') ,· ' ,l (... '.' 't

April 26, 1977 Tape 1890 ("Night) PK - 2 NR. FLIGHT: requested the Buchans dowley Road, and they had decided that was not the route they had intended to go, but they were going to put all priority on the Buchans-Burgeo Road. And at the time, !fr. Speaker, the minister indicated, and his deputy minister, that they ~~ere declaring Buchans a special area; they were going to _ take an inventory of all of the potential development in the area, and that there were men going in the field that Summer. That never :tappened, :fr'.

Speaker, but here is what happened~ The Department of Transportation called a contract for five miles of road built by Eastern Road Builders forty miles removed from any means of getting to it presently, You cannot get to that five miles of road. There has not been one inch of road built since. It is in there, Price (Nfld.) is using it to pull their logs and their logging operation over it. Mr. Speaker, the people of Buchans would be - I stand here and say it would have been better if the Ministr; of Transportation at the time would have put that five miles on the Bu=geo road.

It is there, five, six, seven hundred thousand dollars sitting in there now that is an example of planning and priority by this administration. Like I said, I hope the press is listening, because maybe they might want to check into it. Haybe they would want to go in and find five miles of road built by this administration, with all the financial restraint that is on the go today, we have five miles of road in there that nobody but nobody can use. You have to drive over forty miles of Price (Nfld.) road to get to it~ and this past four years not one inch. Mr.

Speaker, the Minister of Forestry and Environment; last year I stood in this House, :1r. Speaker, and I pointed out - Forestry and Agricultu=e. :GL FLI::ET: - we got i~to a great debate about :he waste thac ~s going on in our forest management. I pointed out about the wood floating free on Red Indian Lake, the hundreds of thous&~ds of cords of ""ood that over the years have floated free up there. .-\.nd ·- ~ ,.-., . ~ ') / I l -) . ._ .

A.pril 26,19 77 Tape 1891 ?Jt-1 ~!R. FLIGHT: I <·rould say to the Minister of Environment nmv to contact Price and find out ho,., many cords of \vood thev lost at one shot last Fall out of Llayds River, hm.r manv thousands of cords - one flush O\rernight, floating f:-ee i!! Red Indian Lake, a r:1.ista!ce. It r,muld stagger tl-:e ;;inister, just one 'Jang; came out l:lv mistake and it is floating :ree. Ic is all around Red Indian Lake and that is added to the thousands of cords that was there in the first ?lace. ''fR. ~RPFY: r.Jood o~rned bv Price. Paid for an.d c.11t by Price. '-rp._ • FT ...

I G'RT : ?aid and cut ~y Price,but that does not ~xcu~~ it, not in my opinion, I do not know if it does in the ~inister's. In your evidence there, I mean thev were n.<'lirl f,.,,... cutting i.t and everythin~ else, they is no doubt about it. YR. FLIGHT: The lo~~ers were oaid.~ hut it Has a •,;aste of the econom.v of this Province. It could have helne~ kent the Linerhoard mill _going for another year or t1.;o mayl:le. \·Jell it could use it. Yes. I agree with vou there. 'fR. FtiGHT: Mr.

Speaker, four "ears ago, fi '7e vears ago, t~e neople of Grand Falls marl.e renresentatirns tn t~e "i.nister of Pealth for additions to the Grand ?alls'-1ospita.l.Five •.•ears and there is no commit~e~t •,ret, 'A"r. Sneaker, arv'l t'cey do not :<:now i.f there is ~aing to be a COTIII".itment in this ]-,ucJ get. T-:te COStS 1-tave escalated almost tr,;ice.-'::he estimated cost of that exte:1sion . . . .. ~r,_,.....1_-.'1L esti:n.ate ~12s Ot'esented. ~~at hosnital has been promised, the extension has ~ee~ n~o~isedj and it has heen needed - no extension to the Grand Falls rosuital. ' ') ~' -, ,) ~ :\ ("1 ·.

Aoril 26,1C177 'I'ane lR91 AP-2 ' ' ~. "t.II'";Ft: Consumer. Affairs, ~fr. Speaker. I raiser. t~e insurance issue in tl:J.is Fouse a fe~·r riavs a~o ~and t~e minister in ans,.;er to a auestion indicated that if t could find, or an? "'.on. member could find some ?erson \vho ~·:as ~e:ting ri!_Jped off ;v ie1.surance co-r:uanies to :,ring it to ':cis attention. ,\nd I suggest to t~e minister t~at that is not satisfacto~r. T~e fact is, ~rr·.

Speaker, all of Newfoundland is getti::g gou~ed· 'Jy insurance companies,and I ~Jould see it as the resnonsibility of t!'le DeDart!!lent of Consumer Affairs to take it on themselves to investigate what is haonening in t~e insurance ~usiness·in t~is Province. ?ell t'te question at c::he time c..ras autml'.ol-Jile insurance.

I raised the question on ·fire insurance · Sut the oeople of this Province should not have to brin<;; it i.nrlividuallv; it is imnortant enough w~at is h.annening in this Province for th.e minister. to accent the resoonsibility and let the Denartment of Consumer Affairs do a survey and find out ~Jhat is going rn and stop t~e rip-off and ~ouging that t~e ~nsurance comva~ies are doi~g. We had 3,360 - ~nquiries last year , to give you some idea. HR. FLIGHT: ~r. Speaker, I am out of time. I only have seven 3y leave. ~To, no: '~R. :Lir,liT: ~Io leave. I ~.rould not expect to get anv le."3.ve, ~1r. Speaker.

I had some other ?Oints to make and I ~·rill ~ake t~em before this session closes. 3v l~ave, hy leave. Five minur:rs. Ocder, :>leas~! In order th 'lt '·Te :~:no~-r •.:hether <:::-:? "on. ~\gr~erl..

.\oril 2f-,1?77 Tane 1891 A.H-3 I ha're not 1-,eard any ne?,ative comnents so the han. gentle~Rn ~~v continue. Hear, hear! ~.rr .. ')o~aker, I L·.rill r:lue it ~~tn. T't:.ere is another Doint I '·;;J.nt to Illake here lane it is r,?:.th the unhelievable annroach to tourj_sm in tl-tis Province that this administration has taken. There Rre ~eoule in this Province, Vr.

S?eaker. ~.;ho helieve that snm.er..;here do~vn the road - ten, fifteen. t~..;enty 7ears from noF-the tourist industrv in this Province. the r~creational facilities, the r'=creatior .. n.l a·nd tourist oote"-tial,develonment ?otential~:n.ay he the '-Jack.bone of the economy of this "Province. It is not hard to visualize. ~fr. Snealrer, ~-Then t.re sE::e Fhat is happening in :'!ai!' land Canada and the United States. And, Mr.

Sneaker, the a"?nroach to tourism in this Province is '-~'ioin~ out, guara!"l.teeing~ that t-cventv years frn'7' r.oi.r if we continue to go the rate we are ~oing ~e ~ill have nothing else to develop. The oresent ~inister of Tourism ~ets into a situation last ''ear where our nrovincial pa-r!:--.s are overcror.;rf1ed, and '7hat is his solution? r-re increases t~e :-c.te in th.e pc.r~:.s ~w $1.50 ner day and wakes a statel!!ent saving that that :::..s ~one to keen out the mainland tourists.

T':lat is develo~ing the tourist notential of this Province, that is attracting the tourists that '"e ~oTant to come in and leave and snend their dollars. :-~r. Speaker, i~ ~~ce of all the criticism , ~" f~ce of all the conservationists in this Province, in the face of c.l~ the ~od and r:un C::lubs and anvhodv ~:.;rho knor·7S an•,t!:J.inf: ;;o.hout our :-, ig .zarne ::10nnlacion,the mi!lister this year allowed his ~iolo~iscs, 'lccenteri l4ln Deonle, 1~nn

i ·~("\'1 _,, - J.7.-l an asset. it sound much, it souncls petty 1·r'hen you compare it to Corne By ('cance, c-nP~l-er. . . C('ln•(" a resident. do ctot o:et the ri.ve-r-s, ou-::" environmpnt hein?, v:lpecl 0ut, I'"' Pi11 leave nothing left "r. Sne,qJ<-er, t;...C'_t ~ s :it. oF a ooet to~~v and I ~m zoin~ to encl mine. '. - .~·t·-!-. t .... '-'.I~,...,.-:-.~ -.·-i ... 1 :'7l •• ,..,.,,.., .: ,, ::~0 rlqst .:::ro7' ··'hic:~·1 -:ton .s~r:~~:-rr/ Unwepc I ........ ,, '·.

I"" -2 r::l-.e cri~e i .e;; the1.t -in yonr r::.:t.r 1--.:'ste. -:c: ,.... ovr> yo ur incompetence, in Province 'dtl- v0n. The hon. ~e~ber for Stephenvil~e. You only have a few momen~s. ~ f e~•r reomen t s. ~hree nuarters of ;:~n hour. Yr. Spe<".ker, I ro not intend to take my fu] 1 ti"e a.llt'tT"~nt CC"ncern .:_n "'? clistr:i.ct tor;:o.'.r 's : ·-' : o rt a dou!:-t: t~.e <=ut,_,re of' the ~.r:~br8c'or T-~nerboarr operation. LTiJ 1 th.e onerat:ion cr~t.;.rue to OC't'!TC"te? I.inerhoarcl mill can !:e a ,,j ahJ e o-pere1.t:f.on .. "nd if it is net, -r: su~r;ect In the taslr force of 19 73, T,:hicr Pas rl0.ne hy the :1er.rfC'tmc1 J and ~e~~ral anrl Provjncial Task force on Foresr~v, thA

section realinq w~th

~ (~ 77 ··- . ' :-·. e':lr. ., ·­ ' ' -. ,::t ...... . ~. 11 r' ~

. . . ~ ~p r:.J. l?77 1~?3 .. . ·-o COSt.

G~ r·oo:: :: :':." -::_-_ i :: ,-r ::._ c ~ .-:!. : r c :-~. toda· y . 2r also to: ,_: .. . . - ..:....l~·~ ?:.: 0? .. :!:" ~ .. a succass£ul o ~ eration. it will not only covering its operating ex~~nses, it ~r ill be ser,Ji -::::inq its debt. :~r. s~ea}:er ~ t:-:e Fcc:eral ?ro\rir:cia.l out_. it r~ccrr.v.enGed 1:>~ realigned to suit tb.re2 ~ills .. ·=3:1ccess . y.,-. ......... . . -r:r1e It. ~ -3.5!: ":"' tl'r ,-tl ------! :..ir:erboa~C:. -8loses -:.his :rear, less t~~c.n : 1.•/e ~..-ears ·:~_ o-: .. 'n t:l.e ro .~d I say the cry will come out from the established ~-·"'~+-__ ,~,._ ._ .. ..., our croo~ cornorat2 citi=ens, ::ot ...... ......_.- .... ~-- . ....; ....... - ~2.::: ~ .....

"""'­' .- - .-..r-r·- .:_•_, .. - _.., ; ._ :-:. ------ , .:.. I l \.... .. ~i.J. t .. -, - ------ they ' . .rill s2.·• ~ ) , ., ., t T..-.. ,_,_, ·- · 4. ... · •• ·~ ...

... .. - ~ . • r· '"'-..... -' 1 I .· i '"'(". ~ ..._ .J - · ..; I ~o ~ou~t about ~~at. ~~ea .. }:er : . , . t~u.a. :.Jecn. c: D. \:CO:; . . . .::.J..~-:_"" •~s-:.:...110 corporation whic~ ~oul~ sunnly !~od at an econonica~ rate to the SteDhenville -.Jiner!Joa.rcl r::ill anc. ~ossibly to the ot~er two ~ills as well. It also ~oulJ deal ~a.jor ~ro.ble!7~ a:: t=a~sncrtation. yar~: build our own shi~s? :re r:eed thee'1. fo:= the fisher·_,· . ·:e could control t.!':ese shi;J :?ins_r contracts. have bought the shios. A.J.~ HON.

HEMBER: - _ , __ ' ' ·- . ..... 1 ~ -:--• · ~- --. ~ · :" • --· . - - ,..__· :>::> ?ermanently overseas. __ ,,_ ·- ,, -"1 . ,_ .. ~ -._.,:"-'~,_. .. ... - . -.. I a.r:t tolG. t~at iiear, hear! - ..:.. . or the T. ~'\ . Eick.-rnan . IlikeP. .. ::::: . . ~: v • • .. ') ~ ·' .1 ~ t i

f: v·~ - - • >.as ... -,:"'\ ;-- ~ . ,~ ...... -· ~ ... o.:..: .:... ..: ... -...._L ___ , ._: .:...s .. : j -' ,.- ........ :.... -- ·- - - ~ ' -.- ~ ~- -, .., - -- ':"" . . - ~· ......... -' _.._. :.. ..:_ - '-..- - ·~ Canada by 1978 will have problems .. l."C.S -~ .:.. .. :-:c ~

-:ape ~rn . 1 ")

I) I ..:.. J . - The noi.:::t ;: 77!USt !'JOi:-tt is that Labrador ,..~ ,-, ._ .. .T c)-::n r s ~ i.:::er-boar.-1., a 1is-:;:-c.ce. t{ear ~ ~ear: rJther re:Jo!"ts go on to s2.y t~at :,y 1~7'3 there see :: .. n ~~crease i~ ccst _ cr - . , -!.. 3i:CU-C exoerts are .C?;oi:1-;; as is zoi:---.. 7- be such a shortage of newsbcard and :1ews~aner products t:.:at it is e,oin.§!: t(' have a direct cause of slmvia?, do•'TI. Ym1 rrill not be ab~e to ~et li::1erl:-oe>.rc. not be card~aari ~exes ~ecause .. ~ ,_ ..... he ahle to ~et the linerbnar~.

It ''Ti~l s lo•·7 -:l o~t:n our ec ono'"':y. a copning out attituce. ~hey are ~oin~ to close -,..+--- . :. ...... ":) - . .; 1 1 taJ.:e, ten.. or ele-.:ren ye..?.-=s a ~o. ' :;.on. 'fT1'T'IIU"!.TV'. ...1"'!0.,....0 '-· _._ ·- ... . . -'- c - ~, ~ ...... , 1 1 ...... 1 ., p .......... -- ' - - ..... .t- • ..... ..., TT.,,""1,!: . ' ) --. l ..... { .l ..;.­ --' ..... ~ ...- .... * - '..; ":""" '="'·- ... .: -. ...

1!'1..,...., . I i i~ ... t 12.!:'1:"tl7'} t :..o r..s .• ". rr"''P.7jT • v ,·,~ ...... '-' .. We do not want John Doyle running around either . 1"'\"".. -. !, , · · -..:., v . ... There are too many The han. gentleman should continue without Hear~ ~ear!

Goo G. ·c.tlin9:. , ~ _ .. , ~as been a sora uoint ~or t~e a~~i~istration . . 1.s!.:: for L.::t'brador Li~-=cbonrd., We .::>..skerl. t~e '2:over:1!'1ent of t':lat ' R.t!.C:. today to utilize is .-:;.rc'l asked; they rtSl~d the establishment of a community college, or shall ~·7::?:. ~:J.Y a regional col2.e'!e, l,ut <·Jhat t·re ?,;Ot '·:as ·:l cor.~nit~r coJ.le~e, a ';·Jatered-down var:>ior.. '""!;' ~DV • - . __ i -·- .... : if2 in Stephenville, our Labrador Linerboard, fails so does cor~~uni :,7 c:au2_ . .J ')- ') _ ! (-.. ~-\, ~ .~.. .

~ne .. J 3 ;o ;::!....,._ ...... ..;"'"""' -. ,., -~ ....... ~ ... ..... ~'I: _....: -. -- :- ~ - -· ·-· ., . .....:. ,.., ~ r ·.1- ' - I: is an improvement, .is it r:ot?

April 26, 19 77 Tape 1895 PK - 1 HR. ROBERTS: nm.,r we "-ian t a project Eo:- the people. ~fR. :·!QIEIL: Mr. Speaker, the administration has a challenge indeed to try to make Labrador Linerboard a successful operation. T~e people in the Bay St. George area feel that the operation can be successful. aR. ROBERTS: Hear, hear! ~1R. NCNEIL: In the last six months if you look at it very closely you t.,rill see that they have turned things around, and that is mainly because of a real solid, positive direction from its presidEnt and general manager.

I must say that the Advisory Board has oeen working very hard, and ~as contributed to a sense of positive direction in the community. SOME EON. L-!EMBERS : Oh, oh! ~·IR. MCNEIL: And now the people in that area feel that we are moving in a direction, now the administration wants to ~ull the rug from underneath. That rug has been pulled so many times that the people stay up in the air because they feel it is no use to come (·fr. Speaker, all the people in that area want is to be given a chance, with direction. .They !'ave see!' failure after failure and no direction, no direction.

The Linerboard situation right now~i£ this administration went back to the people, and co the workers, lay all cards on the table, not a game of showdown, all they want is the facts, they want the truth. SOME HON. :-!:EHBERS : Rear, hear: ~R. ~K~EIL: :'hey want to kno\v- where they stand, and the administration may be a little surprised. They night .in their si:nple-rr:.ind.ed -.:ay, so I am told, in t~at uar::ely c••e Jackatars, :nay re c.ble to just: give c. l.it:tle bit of ccr:::non sense, and a little bit of direcr.ion, and it may prove to ae successful.

It has been done in other parts of Canada, where the ·.;0 ::-:-:2 rs the people c:.emsel '.les , the ccr.u:uur:i ::r peop L~, got invo l.ved, 'e ,... r ) ,._ ,-. ;) ..:: ' "

April 26, 1977 Tape 1895 Pk - 2 :-fr. NcNeil: sa~-r it in the mining industry, ':.;here the people got involved, a mine ,.;as going to close, the people got involved, brought shares into it, and now they own the mi::::e, and now it is being a ver:f successful operation. ~1r. Speaker, Labrador Linerboard ca..""l be succe-ssful. C'ur government must commit themselves to go out to the Bay St. George area~or let the fact be known in the Province, find out the abuse that is in the past, the present, and r.v·hat do you have £or the future?

Give us some direction for the future, your plan for the future, not a day to day operation. Five years down the road we should be looking at. And you can tell the people,as you are moving from year to year, if ~ve achieve this, r,;e r..;ill continue to do this, etc. etc. And you will find the people very co-operative and they will not let you down. SOHE HON. l"IE:t:-1BERS : Hear, hear! ;:rR. MC~1EIL: Mr. Speaker, I am told that the bottom is out of the market: .. There is no doubt that the bottom has been out of the market.

April 1, ,.,e sa~;., the big companies, some o E t~e bigger U.S. companies r..;ho control market ,put up their linerboard S20 a ton, Now it is still down around $250, $225, Granted it is still too low for us yet at 0ur high operating cost, but I am told that ~.;ithin eighteen months that price will go up to about over SJOO a ton. So that means that we are at a breaking point. A...'l HON. ~-1E~ER: A break even point. Y!R. :-1Ci'EIL: A break even point, somewhere around 5300 a ton.

If we go back and try to mode=-nize our pla..1.t, r:or example, the bark !:hat is being :.1sed in that a::ea is trucked to the dump yard. 1-ir.at about if \ve. had a press ins :alled and used that bark :o supplement our fuel? ;·:ould not: there be a saving there? ·:~-:at 2.bout all of -::::.e steam that is going up tbe spout: into the air? C:cu~ d :;c t ::.1u.t 'Je conve::teci and bri::g dmm our electrical bill a snall bit? , .. ) ·~ i) ,l ...... I :

1977 ~~~~ storin~ ·~ •n tha ~~nd. ten rer cent r.rood that is '5tC'recl :in a DC'T'.d. And you c0nl c rah~ . rr..~ r. 2. t .supnosec'l to he crr:e rf the "-est i.n ('anara, r::o.vre in the '-'f"\r] cl':!: cr n(") t ~nou. But according to people ~hom I ~ave t~l~e~ to ~crnss rana~~ it t:h.ev fjp:nre it is jT"!fe.sterl r.·jt~ p0Jit-ical nrooleTI'S. Ye ~~ve seen in tbe r~rketplace neople are q~vinP - a.nd I l--ave \?Otten J j ttle telegra-ms f.rc!'"l r:er.->aDy and other. r1aces i.n the r..·orld Fho state, •C l '. ynn ?.Te ~- n.d '·'fl. ,~ re : I ') \ l.l. •I ._

,.' r r i 1. ~ 11 • J. 0 77 T~-'1 the . mills syste1'1 for !!lC'Ving r.:nod fro!" C:oose Ec>.y and other r'opst:a] no'nts ta Stephenville ~ .; jt~ a '.rier-r to achjevin.P" su~ficie!'r redncti~">n in v0oc! That ~as in 1973. ~~,e ,..,,..rble-rs rF. Lahrar:'or tinerbca'"d .2.s ':ave been told us ~ nt, 2 successf'..l]_:> or bni 1 C: a successfuJ . ope rat ion. Tf it !"eans cuttin~ 2 feH corners,yo11 cut. Tf it ~e~ns snen~irg more ~ollars to irprove the system.you snen~ them. ?ut at five vears ~o~~ the }ine or "r. r"'ros~ie p-r.t oe1e l"'f th<? sh:i.ns rro~7 that is s1.rproser'l tC"l to !,uilcl a '1essel 0f :::or""e tvne for tbe Stephenville cne-::-<Jt~o-r sPe~n-:-

'")(-: - ', ,"'\ -- - .·. I 'T'r Accordin~ to :-JeoT'lle c:=: all ' f"=?~ • ':T::. \ '='-~ : •-;ooc'. F. i~u-:-~. is r- ..... :-·-· ens~ ~ .. ., __ , t~1e:1 it ;.:ra-iuall;r C(lmes dmm. ·~ .. t?_OBE'RTS: That is a real figure, :r.ot .i ust a bookY:ee?ing ·i~~,...;::l+-..;-~? ·. .. --........ ~· .. ~0 the fi~ure most used . .. .,.., state!'lents. So even if you t,3....ke SS" !'lillian, is it not 'tlore se:1sihl<:! to keen it open and trr to bri::l¢; it clor:I1.

One of t~~ terT"'.S of reference to t'le AG.~.risor~: Boar-1, ~rem. tl:e c;oven:.'le:r.t can 0e bearable to the nrnvince. state"!'!ent~:-rou are not ":Oin-=; to Si='.~ it i:1 this years financial statement it is onlv ::-;oi!'."! to sho~·r un next yea.r. its ~oard if', c.:osin::;

- '' .... ,.., .... .,.._T ... ' . .:....:.: " '.r. -'~: .. .) 4 :1oD e a!'.d I r.-:: e1v . ~clni~istration will not in t~air ~aste Ga~e a decision re~arding Labrador Liner~)oarG., its future, on nure political 2rounds. ,.,e are sufferircp-. Ch, on . '·iell I ·.-~nuld ln:e to hear the c0:.rr::er-Lts, ~sl'ecially l:ur-h starte0 it so - . ?

" \ff •T:' ... 1 .. · ·en? -~ . , - :;- •\ , 'I;; • • .. 1- ~ - • :.tg71 Co..:.e . .,_ = Canada's top linerhoard mills. r; e can wake it viable anr:l. r.re l.., 0 l ~ _,. •, • ~ ' L 1 d th • ~ d • • ... t • I 1 d • s.,ou~a. .,,a1'"e lc V::!..a:-~e,an .l .. a m:::..n:;_s ... ra ~on S.lOU..!. c-orrrn::.t :~e~selves to it r~thPr thnt wafflin~ on th~ noirt. sm~r EON. ~~1£1.RERS: Fear, hear! \.·Je h;;.ve heard enou~h of t~~t malQr~:ey., ''11 . ''C:'2!"1 : 'fr, SneCJ.k.er, the -;.1l:"ole r.uestion, the financia.!. nuestion, rre ,ave not: seen a fir..rtnCi.J.l state"'!\e!'tt !:"Or" ~3hr~dcr Liner~oard since 1'!7r:: - .... , , . ...., .. '.~:.,..f T 0:. . : l ') ~, ') I·(._.

" ... :

!.s - . . . -.:..:: ~ = ~ ?~ .. ,... .... , '? .. ''C !!:I !.: .-. ·rh:!.le ago, t:-tat if Le.1 rae o r 1 ~ir.er:-o ar c! :.s nc: successful ; - ~·;ill '•nv~ a st~bsta!!ti:ll econo mic effect on t he future of 5t _ .!o:~ ' s . -r-- -- ; ..... ,. _::, - ~~ ""-- -:: · -rit~out the outs-:.-:e -,a,:-t of our ?:-0vic.ce , out.-si.:~e t !1e J?!-tn 's.

·"~nil 26 ,P77 Tane 1398 ':Je :·'arvs tm·m, t~en t:1ev •,;ill close do~m tJ.,e cement mills, tf-cen t~ey •..;rill c~ose dm·i!'l. the harr:!•-rood plant, close cim·rn everyt~ir".?. that tl:le forrr,er li'::Jeral administration set '..!D • .'ll.::u"!e it e.ll on 'Joev.! T.1at Hill ·;e c'l.e coun ter-argurert. '"R. '~6~IL: It is unfortunate that t~e PC administration ~o dmvn in the history boo~s as an administration \vho were gif::ed in t~e art of closing dm-m and destroying industry. .-\~! HON . ~fE~~BER: 'Close J.er dC'~m ?rank' ~r.

Sneaker, I hone that the pages of historv can be c~an~Sed, I hone that the PC administration ~·rilJ chang~ his torv, ~-Jill make the Labrador Linerboard a successful 'o-peration ~ . .;hereby it can contribute to the economy of our Province. And r.;it:t a little !Jit of effort-.·and within the last few mont:ts I must say t:tere has been a lot of effort gone into the Linerboard oneration l and there is no administration at anv point in time had so much co-oneration, so much backing heh.ind trying to find a :=:elution to t~at industrv.

AN >iON. :'-':E}lBFR: The right administration - '·IR . ~1c~·TF IL : The Premier has all the peou le in t~.e Province - I do POt kno~·' q~out all, 1,ut t!.:e :::a.i oritv of tJ:-!em in the oalrn of his hand if he would give a little bit of direction ,.,ith regards to the Linerboard operation. AN RON . n::rBER: He got the whole world in his hands. :-~R. :·kNElL: The administration cannot say to date t'-,at ,,..e on this sirl.e of the l-louse have overly criticized the ?"OVe!:'n!".ent on the handling of Linerhoard in the nast few months. !Tear, hear! seen ~IR. ·~f!\RY : ~ell t~e hon.

Premier has invited rne into his Ca~inet three or four tirnes . ' l ·" . ) ... .

Taoe 1893 AH-2 Rear, hear! If I invite the ~on. me~her in it ~ill ~e in the back ~orch of the House. I ~ill tell vou ri~ht now. It must be since Scri,Tener car.-:e up . enlv since you did. Very sensitive again tonig~t. PRE:fiER ~100RES: ~Tot at all. ~"R. ~JE..~RY: Tell u~ about parks now. ~!R. SPEAF'.ER: l!rder please! The han. member for Stenl:1enville ::_::; still i~ t~e ~i~st oi _,is remarks and should not 11e interru-o ter1. "r. Speaker, I think t:-tat t:Ce vaares ? .

C. ctdTTlin istratior>. 1 if they so desire - thev got the Tvill, the rle terminc. ti,_-:-~ - J think. that ~vit!r. t:-.e co-oper~tion of this sic!e of the F!ouse-and the11 ':lave ~een gettin~ it - ~ear, ' I near. -with regards to tiner~oard. Oh, oh! 1'"'1e good member over there.~if you .'!auld lU:~ for ~e to throw some mud I have all kinds that I could dig up and t!-trow .<Jround. \·Je are trvin'! to do our best no'·!. Starting with him. VR. :TEARY: He did not start it,tve tried to stop it. Blame it on Joey. The fact t:,at He cannot get a fina-Elcial report. vou cannot blame that on Joev.

You s-pent ~311'1 million on ~-t 7ou cannot '-,lame thA.t on' Joey.' Hj_smanagemen t . "rr. Speaker, I T-lill trv tn refrain mvself anri It is ~arrl enough to be ne~ative ~ith t~i~ crow~ . ~ ') ., :­ ._) ..... '' . )

.-\::lt'il Zt1 . 19 77 3ut, ,_ ' . 1898 as we ~ave i~ the :asc - to ~e a source o~ ~av~e insoira ~i on Ot' encouragement to c:- 1! adminiscratiC"'., :o conr:inue che 'l.ard dri'l2 for..;a-;:-c. ~·:e ~nOH i: is rH .. :~icult ar.C •.:e :·78nt you ~ow we ~ill p roba~lv see a little~!~ of lichc . :\~! !!0'! .

HP''SER :Ii'\1Joss i?le . t.rell.., you have go t co live i:l !-tone and :J!'a", anri dear Cod .t~e last :e~-1 -::onc!:s ::v I<-.nees are :.-ore out - S()Hf ;JO'i . '~'BER ~ : ~ear . hear : l.>ecause ! ::-.in.:·. it is onl·: a 1.i:-ac:.~ : ::.at ·.;-. ~re ~oin~ to ~et c ~is ac~i~ istr ation movin2. ~e_l urless a :zeneral election ·11ill do i t . 0!~ , oh : SO"!'-f£ HO: i . ~!Df3ERS : ' T • > · ei'lr, near . ~r . Soeaker, I will ~old c~e wate r , I ~il l hold the t.ra~e r.

\::riJ. 20, 1077 '" -1 ()1-- • ' ~' or... ~ ~R • RO\v"E : n,enty of ~:ire. Plenty of till"e? ;:>nd T t:,.-fnk ;-.re shall . ccr1tinue to see.

""Ore . ~here are a fe~ ~rev areas, lilre, f0r exaTl"ple, Phc>.t restrnctive force • .. ri l.l the snruce hudFOn"! have on the fnture of our ~ocests,ancl ~- +toever has t-r T"?ke the ~. ecofsion of spravjn~ or not tc s?rav,r a~ ?larl it is n~~ I ~akin~ the recisionl the knOT..! that the forest j_S i'_QP :i_nfestec! tO the ref'ree f'f E'. ir.r.l;tV t(l J onr-:? .1 i ne rh"~A rrl . r,,. e. step 0f the ~.ray t~At tbere r.:ere l"'a.icr. problerrrs. line they ~ave !1!' .::tn~ th<'lt js Fhy ~· 'e i'!.re in such e1 ~ess to~c:n: . vr.

Sne?ke.r, I here that the a~rninistration ~ill ~~r~ tc~~r.~s .~ r; 2 p ,..; ,"3 J f "'! :. ~ • . \ r-, : P r ~ ~ ! = 1 i ':"'?

!0-2 "-fr'.:t'TT • '· • • . ! .~ • An. e.eria~ ~lip, yes ~ "i tr vru r 1.- :i.J t? ''1J T have heard of toc]ess.hut ~ctro7Jess 't qnin~ to ~c~: Fj th i.t . 'T'here are t~vn areas in my riistrict, ro.?.l 'Srool· and YoeJ.s IT'".-,e L"leo~, e three years. a~nlyin~ Fer assistarce ~rn~ c~e ~~~j~istr~tirr to inst~ll .1, r-rater syste-r.. the1"'~elves. and he Cl:id cor.1e thrcu?b ilt the verv end r.-j tl: c>. co,mle of t::ons::tr..c' clo) 1.~rs ,Hhich were very nicely received. ~ut this is the th:!:1g e:-:a t kind of Eri:zhtens re, the fact that i-w~., fc.r do the local peon~e ':-l;ove .\nY Other ['rO~rd.TI'1T'e in any Clt:her !':O~nn-f tY r,·ill ji' etlJ system, the" di~ not receive it, that kinc'l of treat~ent. ceo9le ~id not ~ive up. ':'hey sa i rl, ''Fel1 'f 1 . ~ )? '·· ~ ' ._ ' cannC't ~"

April 26, 19 77 Tape 1900 PK - 1 ~'[r. ~k~Teil: on a population basis you will see that maybe the community is not all that ~ad, the people are not bad, except the fact that they heve such e large growing ?art of their population, the young people, and they need di=ection, a sense of belonging, not only to the community but to a province in \.Jhich they can build a future on, because they would like to contribute back to the Province of Newfoundland. And at this point~once they leave high school, they have to make plans to leave the Province altogether. It is very sad. ~1r.

Speaker, I will close my remarks, and I do hope and I do pray that the administration will make a decision regarding the future of Labrador Linerboard for the benefit of· the people in the Bay St. George area, and for the people in the Province as a whole. And I think if the people are asked to help they will help, and if He all r..;ork together we can achieve success in that industry. SOHE RON. Y!ENBERS : Hear, hear~ ~-lR. SPEAKER: (Dr. Collins): The hon. member for Port au Port. AN RON. ~1EHBER: You are not suppose to speak. :\N H. oN. :--m:rnER: You are not allowed to speak. ~!R. J . HODDER: :fr.

Speaker, AJ.'l HON. MEMBER: As soon as the hon. House Leader stepped out he popped up. MR. J. HODDER: If I could start, Mr. Speaker? :1r. Speaker, I just have a fe~.; 1·7ords t:o say. I had intended to say a few wor~s about the fishery in my district, and the mining and agriculture and one thing and the other, but at the present ti~1e in my discrict, as in all of Bay St. George, I do r:ot c~ink anybody '"ants to hear about any thir:g else other than the Labrador Linerboard Limited.

For the past six months it has been unco~fortable to live in my district or to live in Stephenville, because the cloud that has hung over the tm.m, the clouG. that has hung over the area and the whole of Bay St. George is such that actually the people in the area changed. I guess, ~erhaps my hon. friend from ~Jaskaupi C·fr. Goudie) 1,;ould be able to :-ealize the feeli:2g

April 26, 1977 Tape 1900 PK - 2 Mr. Hodder: that is in a town when the ~<e is dangling over its head, and then Hhen finally it falls. And we have been waiting 'lt least the bloH was clean in that area but we have been waiting for auite a long time now h'Ondering ;.;hat is going to happen in the area. And one of the frustrating things about the area, one of the frustrating things the people of Bay St. George have found~is that there has been no information.

I worked \vith an impact committee in that area, I have been working with them for some time, and they have gone to the Advisory Board, they have gone to government, they have gone to various areas trying to get information, trying to find out, get a few facts and figures, and they ended up going throughout the Province themselves and having to glean ·whatever information they could about the woodlands, about the mill and \<l'hatever on their own, because there \vas no information forthcoming.

The financial statements are two years old. l-ie keep hearing figures. \,J'e do not know 'N'hether they are valid or not. l~e keep hearing statements made by the government, but there are very few hare facts in those statements. And living in this vacuum for the past sL~ months has been unbearable for me, and unbearable for the people of Bay St. George. Now in my district of Port au Port you can almost divide the district into areas which might be called woodlands area, and linerboard mill area.

The comir.unity of Kippen's, the community of Port au Port East, part of the community of Port au Port \vest, in that particular area many of the people work in the mill . .,.. ., .c :L~se.L.~.. In the other areas of the Cape St.

George and to the Lourdes arsa, and dmvn in the Point au Mal area, and down the Black Duck Brook area to a lesser e:-::tent, many of t:te r:1.en ,.,·orked in the woods industry. ~To,., i:u. the outer part of the district to all intents and pt:.rpose.s the mill has closed~~ecause the woods industry was shut dowu las~ year, and r,re have oeen suffering the blows and the trials from chat closedmm,

I 10"'7 • J I ... t, 0 L .. - i! clouC.. e.cor.o7'1.~,. of the crucial to .:,.. .;.. .. t!'le ~.ill. . . i:.3~.l f rrre no":·: .:12.ng:!..ng I t~inl: t ,, .... +­ ....... d.~.- ~.c.er ~-r-..-·· ....... · . r~-::-al develcr;71.er:.t association~ :r\'1!1. across t!!<:?. "rov].nce a:.1rl t~e :t!J.our~t of s:J.-r~o'!:'t c2:.t t~e ".istric.t ~12.s rece i i."''e.d or-L::sts ;, /1 .l '- . ; . . rece:.~12c ~ r ., ., _.._ __ , .. ~., ·- - - .. = .. ;;, .

' . ' .. ;"\r:...:... :1R. J. HODDER: 1 i) ""\ 1 ..L It had been destroyed once. ~he fabric of =· # society had been destroyed and suddenly the mill ~iTas put there.. !'eonle carne in fror.:. outs ide. ·They gelled ,.,ith the people that were there. ~oung men from the community took

part in the mill. They got jobs in the mill and I am told>and this is on very good authority, as a matter of fact'~ the president and general manager of Labrador Linerboard at the moment says that the quality of the young people who ~vork in that mill are of as high a calibre as anywhere that he has ever been,and he has been in quite a few mills. The problem that faces the area now is that we will lose our young people. I do not believe for a moment that that mill will go down forever.

I do not believe for a moment that the future of Stephenville is gone, that it will become a ghost area or anything of that nature. I do see that we will lose many of our young trained men, people from Bay St. George who went in there and worked hard in the mill and now can get a job anywhere in this world, These are the people that the future of our area depends on and they will disappear. They will be gone. T~:.ey cannot r..;ait any kind of a shut-down. ~1mv I do not know if the government is going to shut down the mill or not, I know there are some funny things going on over there.

I know there are some conflicting statements. I knmv that there is something in the wind, There is some sort of a plan. I do not know what it is out I do say this that ~iThatever is happening that it is very, very destructiV'e to th~ social fabric of Bay St. George. It has torn the guts out of the area a~d for this government i£ they d~d decide to close the mill, for this government to close che nill it would be a criminal act. It would be a stain on the administration which they could never overcome.

And I do hope , and I do beseech and beg tha~ the government,in whatever deliberations it has to go through 1 - 2 ,., ') :J '1 .. 2

April 26 , 1977 Taoe 1901 .r.f - 3 >fR. J . HODDER: that the gov ernment looks at the thin~ in a serious light because the re is more at stake here than just a few :nillion dollars . ~!ow I believe as my colleague from ?ort au ?or~ said earlier : hat t hat ~ill can ~ e turned around . As a matter of facc 7 t he Board of Directors , I believe , are cau :ious_y opt:il'nistic and ! certainly k..."'lO\v that t he ores ident and genera l manager of Labrador Linerboard Limited has put in everything he has. He is wor king day and rright to ~ urn that mill around and he says he can do ic .

He savs he can make chat ~ 11 ~o . ~ow one of the ~hin g s tha t we ~us~ l ook at if we are ~oing to talk about t he Linerboard mill ) if there is a decision to be made,and perhaps that decis ion is alread y made, I do not know, is to look ·at the markets . Now t he ~rkets - I hav e not been : ) f) '( . l_ ,, ..

-r:" -l. :' s e1 ~atter o:: It serves 3;:~_v ~t. Ceorg-e. and after t:;.e mnl l'-"S "uilt anrl nnc~er th'fs th~re. ecuinoed ~2ve we taken these people to ~o n0thinv else but to travel t~ the !"ajnland? ?'ave •·re erl1Jc<?te0 thP'l'T', J-.;1.ve r,;e snent onr rn.C"ne;r tn erlucctte t-~ern to send t"'.eT'I a~:-rpv so""e•·'here eJ.se?

'rri.1 '2f.. T 0 ·-2 t~er~ are ~i1]inns of cor~s n: woo~ vet tn he cut. I also "'!e.n ~~on ~inister responsihJe will a~ree uith this rh;:ot nne of ::he pro[,} ems ~-.Ti'th th.e snruce f;uciwor;n is •.;her~ the forests .::l.!"e not pronerly !"'anag·ed, then the bnd· Ot11 is "1nre _ik e}_ v to T irer....,na.rr' T..:i!l'itec! ~ecause •1e must i ~ av" iJ a 1 ~ 1 e . nrovince.

I ~ave hear~ nress reJe2se after T, 2.s a rc.tter of f~ct ~eJiove that the vnod situation can ~e r~tinna1ized I do not thin~ tbat eit~er Price or Bowaters are zein~ to be as h.ard-nosec as some r-=-0rJ e thin!r tl:E"~' are. ;\s a ~atter of fact, T t~in'-· P<'S~i':-1v peon~e 0~ the (l'()':ern,..,ent side r:'ay reaUze th.cL". vears ago ~~en the nrpnsition at t~~t tj!l'e vere ruizz~~~ the ~ ') !) • ) c.. '} ')

f.P.-J ?otmding their desi·s . Ho ~ . c rm.,rt . .,oun d inz their- d es:,s all in Sl!ono rt of Int~ -rnat ional ~o r?.st Prod ucts. ~!ot.; ~•= find out chat Interna tiona.1 "or~ .st P"rotiucts t.Tere not t.;hat they totere sunoosec to l:le, t!lat they ~.,ere not the c·roe of orzanization . another o rganizc> .tion hal> heen for!"ed. sixty, s~vem:v ,eiq h t y dollars a co rei. •.1n ':: o a hundrsd a!'.n four ~ ol!ars a cot'd . ' To~v ;.:e ge :.:

Aoril 26, 1977 Tape 1903 PK - 1 :1r. J. Hodder: a group of people come in - and this went on for five years - and now we get a group coming in telling us that we can get wood for $60 a cord ?So r.;hat ~.;as this administration doing for the past five years? That is •,·nat I would lii<.e to know, because what has happened now is a blot on the administration, and not only that but it has caused great anxiety in the Bay St. George area.

Now we also talk about bad markets. cJow there is one thing I have got to bring up here, it may be negative, but I suppose it is another instance of mismanagement, and mismanagement is mismanagement either T.vay it is looked at, but we do no c have the capability in Europe that we used to have. \.Je do not have the markets in Europe that we used to have. We do not even have the markets that we had several wonths ago. Now I made a charge sometime ago which '\vas denied and then admitted to, and I think that it goes to the roots of ~any of the problems that T.ve have at the present time with our market:s in Europe.

This government; the first move that they decided to: ~ake was that they would hire a couple of consultants from I.Joods Gordon w·ho '\vas going to go in to Stephenville and solve all of our problems, In the midst of their deliberations they went to a trade circu:ation company in the States, they asked for a market forecast, and while doing so they said that the government were thinking about closing down the Labrador Linerboard Limited. And then the trade circulation company sent mailagrams throughout Europe, to every market that 'tve had in Europe saying that Labrador Linerboard was going to close down.

And then suddenly angry telegrams started to come back to the mill in Stephenville. They came back saying "Hhat is going on? You have orders <vith us; you have long- ter::1. orders ;..rith us, and you are closing do-w-n the mill." And the markets have ~ever recovered since. It was the most colossal and stupid blunder that has ever been made by any administration in the history of Nev1foundland. SO~E EmJ .~·J:EHSERS: Hear, ' I near.

April 26, 1977 Tape 1903 PK - 2 Nr. NEARY: That is right. HR. HODDER: Another thing,just before the St. John's West election, tr.-10 months before, you knmv, talk about planning and strategy and a government that Knows where it is at, ;;.,·e had the then Chairman of the Board of Directors, and the then President of the Board of Directors take a little jaunt over to Europe, over to Nor#ay, and they hired three or four ships for bringing wood from Goose Bay to Stephenville.

Of course these ships \vere chartered, and three months later, or two months later the government decides that.they are going to close out Goose Bav and they are not going to use Goose Bay wood any more .. The question I would like to ask, ~r. Speaker, I do not know what has happened to those charters, I understand it is in ligatim right now, and I suppose that is another $5 million or $6 million that the government is going. to hav'= to pay out but, you know, 1o1hat happened to them? Are we sub~chartering now? Is the government sub-chartering ships at the present time? But what planning that was. By anyhow, Mr.

Speaker, these are things, I suppose, that are in the past, and now ~•hat faces the goverr.ment is the decision to try to do something about the problems that they have created since they took over the managereent of that mill. And I say, ~'[r. Speaker, that Ottawa has done its share. Ottawa had put much of the heavy equipment into the mill, Almost all of the equipment) I am cold,in Goose Bay was bough't · by the Federal Government through DREE into the ~ewfoundland Development Corporation, I .believe.

The federal government has put all sorts of woods roads, they built woods roads and particularly earmarked for Labrador Linerboard Limited. They have done their share. I understand that in Otta>va that there ~as been no re.:tl request from this government to pump money in there. At least that ?as the case not so very long ago. But I will say this that they have shown their interest, wnen you look at the amount of 2quirment that has been bought and the ClUJ."TTber of -woods roads that ha';e been put throu~h, tney have show-n their interest in the millions and millions of dollars worth. [") } tl ~ ' ._ ,J

Tape 1903 PK - 3 ~-tr . Hodder : ~o,.; I kno~" , anci I '..Till say, that the gentlemen on the oche r si<ie a r e inte r ested . The gentlemen on the other side ••ould like to kee? the mill going. ~e gen t lemen en the ot~er side in t~eir Ow"U ••ay, I suppose, \o.'Oulcl like to see :his P:-ovi::ce as ? :-Cs?e rous,a: _c as healthy as it possibly can be . out I like my colleagues from St . Geo rge's (:·frs . :ra clsaac) and from Stephenville (:1r . ~cN eil), we see it firsth and, we see ~•hat i s happening. I would have liked for the gov ernmen t co have a little closer look at Stephenville. ~ · ) '\t) . ) ...... ', '

1?:7 7. l ·:"' n .1 -,., ... .. , .!.

Three ~inisters vent out t~ere on a couple of occasions : I it~ great nro::cises o: co-ooeration and cvervthina feelina across the Province, the Eeelings ln t~e ar2a ~ust co~e u~ ~it~ sort o: ~ ::,elicv.-... .,~,.... ·-~- !.\..- Dleasc do not r.:1al:e an ~." :~ore bl1.1nders o:1 ti!.at. r-.ill ~- eca.~se the ;cill can turn arourcd, it cc.n turn aro:..1nc in a ver" ti:ne. r..: t~;,is ;'71ill closes ~e able to sto!J. :::u t T do kno~·J b1a t t~e dollars conin0 in :ron tl':::. t ;:"\ill are dollars t~at are dollars brought into t!:rouah :;ri2ary ::'rodu.ction of ';.'hie!':. t;,.sre is verv li '::tl2 ... 'f""\:-..,- ":".- ... -- - -~ ·- ; -·~ ""':: '-.._ ___ ._ ·r :·:nm·.' ' .. - ... ~- -:-o '-- L -~.t ,I..:;, • r: -, -, 'I ,i .) 'u l1 .... ~) ~ .1.-l,... __ ,_ .. -

i~co~e ta~ there. t~erc~ is 1 .. onev circulate-::: . '. 1.~1 T: ~12 I understand -:!:'o!"'. -:\V relative ir!.eXT/erience in econo:1ics t.ll.a t tl1ere is ·J. nultir.lier ~robablv nulti~lv a little lon~er. ~:1ose dollars COBi::1g ir..to the Province and in t~eir l.ncor:e ta:--:; .!...!-, ~':"~ , __ ... _ J ta}-.e. t·a.c!: in e~ler"!rt~in·,.,.. ~lse. tre~endous anount of none'l.

I r.vonc!er • t: - l '- a studv has ever been done on ivhat t~e real i.,.-:1.pact c: tl""e closure of tha.t \:"!ill :·roulcl be on :Ie>·rfounc1la.uc:, on the dollars t~1at t~e ~·roods contractors are ~akina in Rod2ickton, and t~e ~~llars t:-tat the r:1ooC. contr::tctors are r::al·.ina in Le• .. ~isr)or-':e, an6. t~1e clollars that t:1e 'dOO~~ls ccntra.ctors are 2a.}:in~ in cor: tribute · to t~1e economv? ~one to La~rador. Yes, as I"'i~' :1on.

Eriend sa;rs , ,_,rc know w~at has hannened in Labrador. ~e know what has ha~nene6 in Goose Day. ~~at is one najor area o~ the Province that has been ~iDei cut. out .3.r:ot~er? ..., ... is ~..,....;:,.-o~+- .!...;-,.:-:::. - ,__ ~"J .. - ~ .. - .... -· -· ~ ~eo~l;-: -,. ' ... ,...

-. •r • • ·- -· · ......, ....... .....~ -;- ....,; t,... o u. a .I t> 1\ ' . ( . u L _. · Uulf r 1... ...... v ·-. ·- ':"'- .IG . L--- _ ....... -~ : S30d~ · I~ I ciUfli ~ .-,­. ~ .._ .... ,- -c ... ·~-/-7 r-:-·":'(l-:' _.,......._; __ '---"'-._-- u,~ .. ~: - -. ··- - - · -- - ----~ :.. _._.: ...,.:.... ..J !' ." c:;

Anril zr..,l977 Tane 19(15 A:-~-1 Although ~e is not sitting in his seqt tonight, the hon. memher fo-r ~ogo, (:ant. '·7inso-

r) so-rr:e~·.rhile ago to one of the anendrnents snake a'1d I enioved ve-rv much '·That he 1-tad to sav. Certainlv if I did not agree wit~ all he ~ad to sa:Ld I did enjov l·ihat he said . .'·_n_d nerh.aos it is '.Jecause ye.a-rs. 'lears, years ago, long years a~o -:;.re had something in cotrn!lon. For examnle, as a hoy I can remember picking the mail from the Hinnifrerl Lee on the Labrador and asking Cant. \-rinser what it r-ras like un and dor..rn the shore, ~-;he ther:- there '·ras ice, r,1het'ber there 1-;ere fish and so on and so forth.

Anci certainlv meetin;,; him here in t~e :-louse has been a gr.eat ex':Jerience for me - meeting an old friend. Also to t~e hen. member for Exploits; again I Nant to con~ratulate him on the speech that he made. There was only one thing -c.r-rong ~vith it, I could have listened to his fluen·t ·,!ords and flm-rerv language much longer.

To the member for '!askauni certainlv :--,e did give us an e.Plightened and erl!ucational add-ress on. :->.is d:..strict. ~~e rnemher for Baie Verte-\•0.ite Bav did a g:ooc' i oh, and aeain as I rlid not agree r,.;ith all that he said I certainly liked his delivery. :'ly old seat: mate here to my left, '1'\ill ?atterson: the hon. member for Placentia, c~<=>-rtainly a r.:.an of concern. .\nd the!'l.

I ?-O back to the memhe r for F.arbour Grace, a very s~ort address and one of the phrases that he used-and having been accused on one or t\·70 occasions of being ryartisan - I rio not want to be partisan here tonieht but the hon.member for ~arbour ~race ~id ~ention a ohrase that I know ·,;as used '-)y the fonrer ?reTI'.ier. Although I am not very neither ?as I verv old w~en I heard these worrls uttererl, hut ~ • •'1 () •) , 1 , ) I . \

~- ~-· c:wss: l'l.ember from "\urf?e0-·13av n r ESDOir - Oh, oh! '.r~ ... CR()SS: Sorrv, I knou I <.;as. Yes you 2re asl!:inr. \·7hat is <::'·e n'craselvou c<.>nnot recall the '·:arch, 1 l-.no•7 vou canr-ot::. ~ut certainlv I arn going to ryut a different flavour on :hem tonight ~f I am forced to. I can remember as a hoy of fifteen 1 ~earing our former Premier - not say"1:mrn vour boats,.

I r,;ill il:~ree, I have never heard hi!!! sav that but I di~ hear ;,_im say '';:,urn your flakes and TJull en your ':loats and nake hens houses out of them and oigs ~ouses out of them and t~is is ':·!hat an old tarred- 1-Jo ttom aunt ca!'1e to. ;\l.~ RON . "ffi~fBER: Premier Yfoores said that. HR. CROSS: ~o the former Premier. ~. J. CARTER: The only livin~ millstone. tffi. CROSS:Be as it mav. in an earlier address in this han Rouse Hhen I snake for a short time on the arnenrl.ment, I believe it c·ras - or sub-amendment out 'by the 1-JOr.l.. !!!emher for LaPoile.

I snoke of the great nrogres~ that 1--jas been. made in-the services of t1-je oeonle of Bonavista 1orth over the vears since Confederation and in TJarticular t~e last five years under t~e Progressive Conservative government. SOME RON. ~fEi'-fBERS : Oh, oh! ::1R. l.FOSS: I do not I•Iant , I certainly do not \·rant to repeat mvself, I am sure it \·lOuld be boring to the hon. memhers of this Rouse and a ~vaste of time on mv part. 1Uthough much has ::,een dnne ['['IUCh reMains to he done in my district.

Certainly we all realize tl1at .. ?a!!1"' ~vas not huilt in a dav"' 1-.ut I look. forvard to n tanned and consisten~ ~regress until the manv n.eeds of mv district are met ~ut tt,_is evenin?-: I ;Jant to speak to-r a fe~·7 minuti=!S A.~-,out ·.;l,_?.t i_s Provin.ceJ and t'1at is the fi.shing industrr. \·:n.en I hecar.1~ 2. :ne'!"!ber of the '·lOrY- force back in 1?45 it ,.7as as a fisherman that I !-:egan wort.and at t~at ti~e the La~rador fisherv ~as at its neRk.

.\l-l-_) Evec-v SuTT".mer '-Je.~~· 7een four and fi_ve '1undr3d schooners ran~ing from forty to 1sn tons would orosecute t'1e Labrador fis~ery carr1iro.: from six to t-o:·!entv m..en i!:'l cre~v-.

.c\pril ~G, 1977 . T2.pe 19'JS : (?... CRO S S . T~ey Foul.cl le2.ve for the fishing ::;rou::.ds in Ju:ce, retc:rnin~ somet:!.:.-:1e ~n Septe~ber. ::-:os t of tl1e!'i \v'itl1 'oumuer voyages~ As t~e old : 1.s~1ernan ~·!oulC: say. ~~~lood gates i -!. ":~ : .. : · ::ater , four sheet as :Jell not four sheep, but four Sl1eet iron as Hell.Five short years nasse.C., from 1945 to 1950/ and the great Labrador fishery as it ~·ras l:r:o~-m r:.rns all but over. At that time it Has not that the fish 1-1ere not there to 'oe caught, it ,,Tas because the ?rice of fish drop~e·:i.

I:1. the Sum..7ter a bur:rpe!:' tri~. ,l..gairl as the old fisherr.1an r.·rould sa:y· ; I ' tl~e ?Lint of the hatches 1.:as in the fish". ;.Je b:-ought home a bur:rper trip only to find that over th2.t Summer the price of fish had fallen to 512.23 a c~uintal do"m to $7.00. And I 1;;ant to reiterate t!:lat it \vas fis:t. ?rices and not the lack of fish that caused that decline in the Labradcc fishery in 1950. Then for the period from 1950 to 1960 very £e1·1 floaters uent ~iorth to fish. nut after 1960 the prices i.cuproved and SOTLl.e schooners again prosecuted the Labrador fishery.

And from 1960 to 1965 there was an increase in the vessels taking part and bUD?er trips again uere brought and good prices ~·!ere received. In 1965 ~.;hic!1 r,Jas the last good year for t:-te Labrador fishery my father fished on the Labrador ar.d he brougi1t the heaviest voyage ever and t:1e ere~.; :nade the biggest bill ever. Th::J.t y,-;::rr every vessel that sailed ::Torth to fish returned heavily laden lvith salted cod and the cretvs made good money for the time that they spent fishing.

Aiter 1965 the Labrador fishery .?.gain declined , ard it was not because prices vere loH but because tb.e fish was not there to be caught.

Schooners ·,Jent ::rorth to fist1 in 1966 anti 1967 and returned almost Hith clean keelsons , the same boats, skippered by the sa~e ca~tains, nannetl ~y the same cre.~1s rc:ur'2.ed ~vit~ ~othin;s. 1966, 19~7 2-ncl on~;nrds, the foreign draggers ~ ·;ere fis~:.i:::; t~1e icy tJaters of t~e :-J:atnilton :Sanks, the l:.Jreeding grounds for Labr:1.dor I can rener::ber ~·Jhen as a small oo:i I from the fishing grounds after tending their traps, literally flat . ' \ ') . ' :l .) \ I)'

Aor :.1 25. 1977 . Ta~e 19:)5 ' 3. . Q.f)SS : ::.~ c~e •.,;a: er, loade d dow-n v i : :1 cod. ~iou in t :-te sane area c~e only true boat loa d of fish that you can see is ::he collector f-~or:1 Creer:s - Ac : ~la : c:i~e : !1e ins:;ore : :.sher y C.epe=tC.ec so le_y o:; ..:oC: . : ::e fisher::1en depend ed sole ly on cod for a livin g . I c is .:rue, :~r. Speaker, and it is a fact t ha t our fish sto c ks have bee n de? letad . If it ·..;ere no t for t~1e varie ty of species caught =to~·J, e l i ttle of eac~ . 6e i:1shc !:e : ishe r y :!.:1 ;::any of ou r com.-:iUnit.:.es on c::e ~lor : h eas t Coast. in

part icular. ~ ould be go ne .

April 26, 1977 Tape 1907 Pk - 1 Nr. Cross: It is the species that was thrown back into the sea years ago that fishermen are making most of their money on today. I fished out of Valleyfield 'vith my father in 1967, although a teacher, call ne a moonlighter too if you like, but nevertheless in 1967 for one month, I fis;-,ed ~· 7 ith i:lY father out of Valleyfield. We fished three ?ill net~.I fished also for one month again in 1974 with eighteen gill nets. In 1967 - You are not allowe~ to use them on tMe Labrador. HR.

CROSS: In 1967 we landed more fish from three gill nets than o;.;e did from eighteen in 1974. ~feaning what happened in 1967, that one little spot of ground, one little shoal we set our nets 1 there for a month, we did not remove them, we might have tightened out a mooring now and again, but we kept them there for one month, vle took more fish from one little spot of ground out of threegill nets in one month in 1964 than >Ve did from many spots of ground, r,<avi:<s-; our nets back and forth to try and trap the fish, from eighteen gill nets.

This certainly tells us agair. the story that the fish cannot be there. &"1 HON. ~:B ER: oh, oh; ~1R. CROSS: And you shift your nets everyday. Ten years ago all of what I am saying here perhaps has been said before, but not by me in this han. House. SOME HON. HEMBERS: Hear, hear: HR. CROSS: Ten years ago longliners were catching as much fish in sixty nets or even forty as they are today in one hundred and sixty.

If that is not the case then the fishermen are liars and I do not believe they are, not for one minute. ~lets have to be left two nights to fish before they are hauled, to make it worth-while. 11/he:re t",.;o cod tra-ps were used. ten to t';elve years ago; today five and s:::..x traps have to be used. The ~ish are not there in the same numbers. As already stated, Mr. Speaker, it is t::e fish su<>cies that was thrown back into the sea years ago that is keeping the inshore fishery alive today. The lumps that '"ere a curse to the fishermen, today the roe ·.

April 26, 19 77 Tape 1907 PK - 2 ~fr. Cross: is used, the flounder and any other species of groundfish. Certainly we could say that our fishermen have been experimenting for years. We may talk of our scientists, but I look upon our fishermen as being scientists '.vi thin their mm rights, because for years they have been carrying on an experiment, and each succeeding year they are finding that certain species, especially the cod are becoming scarcer and scarcer. If we ask the fishermen why the decline, we get two answers. Nlllilber one, the over fishing of the Hamilton Bank during the spawning season.

They will tell us that it is not the fish taken, but the fish ~es~roved before it gets a chance to come to maturity that counts. If you destroy the egg you get no young birds, if you destroy the spawn on the spawning ground you get no young fish. It is just that simple. Another answer they will give for the scarcity of fish is that, and fishermen are honest, although the gillnet have brought them a good living, many fishermen look upon the gillnet as a curse, because they will tell us that they have caught in the deep water the big mother fish, that would ot:1en.;ise l:Jp left to swa•;.m.

And certainly we know too that gillnets that are lost at sea become '"hat ,.,e call ghost nets, especially the monofilament nets that can last for eight to ten years in the small boat, · not the long liner, but in ' small boat before they are warned out, certainly they can fish for many, many years, ghost nets after they have been lost. I only fear one thing, I am very much afraid that the pleas of some of our fishermen v.rilJ go unheeded. ,. '~ f) (l .) •. I ,1 ._

April 26, 1977 Tape 1908 :1R. G. CROSS: May I say at this point and time I have every good faith in our present ~inister of Fisheries. I feel quite sure that possibly they t.rill not go unheeded but should they the day could conceivably come when we will be able to say . that and have to agree with the fishermen in listening to what they say ten years hence when they say, "I told you so," \<le certainly know that the fishery is L~ortant to our economy. I know to a part of my district it is its lifeblood.

I know what a fish plant working in full capacity and possibly on shifts can mean,not only to the Northern part of my district but also to the centre and perhaps reaching into the South especially with what is happening in the district at ~resent with our present transportation system being upgraded and the route shortened. No longer after this summer, no longer will it be twenty-five miles from Valleyfield to Indian Bay like it is nmv but twenty- five miles when paved will reach from Indian Bay 1 through Bonavista North into Lumsden which is in the Fogo District. ~. NEARY: Thanks to Uncle Ottawa, MR.

CROSS: So certainly - Thanks to Uncle Ottawa, perhaps so , but also looking back to years and years ~erhaps to a change of heart - A..~ HON. MEMBER: Hear , hear! And Uncle Ottawa. MR. CROSS: There was a time Uncle Ottawa was there long before the Progressive Conservative Government came to power in Newfoundland so I would say nmv if Uncle Ottawa is footing most of the bill certainly there had to be a change of heart on the part of some provincial government. Hear, hear! ~. CROSS: Planning has been the thing. ~. FLIGHT: All for paving five miles of road there. :1R.

CROSS: Certainly as I said the fishery is important, !he r . \ ·' I' •. l ,) .1 I JM - 1 ·-

A-pril 26, 1977 Tape 1908 JM - 2 ~. CROSS: hen. member from LaPoile knows that. Last year in excess of 18,000 fishermen earned a livelihood from the sea sailing and fishing in all winds and weathers to make jobs for in excess of 10,000 other people 1-10rking in our 105 fish plants around our Province. ~.Je know too that fish is a resource that >ve have that other countries T..;ill not.

T.;Ie have now a t>•o hundred mile limit and it is up to our nation, our national government, the federal government:~s well as the provincial government.going hand in hand to see to it that our fishing e~fort is increased so that more and more of the quota is taken at home. It is uo to us as a Province to continue to press the federal gcvernment.as we are doing)to see that the right policies are enacted in order for our fishery to continue to improve and give prosperity to our Province. Before I sit down there is one other little remark that I would like to make, '·ffi. • ~EARY : Take your tiru.e.

Do not he afraid. XR. CROSS: Oh, I run not afraid Mr. LaPoile. Certainly I want to speak for a moment regarding our licencing policy. Our fishe~r is very important. We must have fishermen to catch the fish and certainly one of the phrases that r.;e hear so often is that ~.;hen the middle-aged and the old fishermen have gone where are the fishermen going to come from? r~lell certainly over the last year and-a-half to t-.:•o years I think the answer is there. rnere are many, many young men who are going back into the fishing boats and becoming fishermen.

There are very, very, many young men who want to go back in the fishing boats but are not going. Certainly, as I said earlier; the inshore fishery in particular today is viable because of the ~ny species. A fisherman. ·•

.\pril 25, 19 77 . Tape 1909 I"J{ - l :·~. CttOSS: I think, to make a go of it, wants a license to fish every soecies. And I do not think for one minute that any bona fide fisherT'1an should be deprived of t:1e license. It does not TI'.2.ke sense tone to see a young fisherm2.n entering the c. ' ..... lsnery, he cannot ge~ a sal~on license., not even to fish a fish to put on his table,. \·!hen he has to pay $1.75 or Sl.88 a pound for salnon to feed his ovm children and himself, it does not seem to make sense.

Certainly there are many old, retired people \·Jho still do ~et a saLmon license, \vhecher they :1ave been a fisheman all their lives , a caruenter or a construction \·<orker. Ten years eight years ago, five years ago any person • .. ;ho retired could get a license. And many of our licenses that have been distributed have gone to retired people. I am not Opf'OSed to that;providing the old. fellow that fished until he 1-1as sixty-five r,rho ~;,Tas a fisher~an. But: certainlv to give licenses to all and sundry when they retired a feH years ago and then the · number of fish nets that were. given.

Certainly I kr:.mv- it is not a provincial jurisdiction, but certainly there is something that can be done about that situation. There are, and I t:.not·J this for a fact, retired people who get a salmon license in their name Hho have not stepped into a boat for years. I know t~is for a fact too, tjere are fisher:nen ,.,ho :1ave gotten :3. license to fish as ~1igh as forty nets and have not put over ten into the lvater. I feel that there is something ~vror:.g -vJith tL1e policy, the.t there is somet~ing wrong \vith the controls ;;v-hen that is allowed to happen. I think, ~[r.

Speaker, \vith these feu remarks I \?ill sit dm.m. and thank the House for giving rile the opportunity to say hello. ~lear, hear: '8.. SPEAKER: T1:•= hon. r:.ember for St. George . ~:r. Spe2.!:er ~ I too ~·ToulC l:.~:e to ~2:::e a fe.'.I s~;.or~ remarks like my colleagues from the 3ay St .. George area. :'l1e Ei=-st item on m:.r agenda is t~1e Stenhen~lille - Labrador Linerboard.. It is t~1e . . ) 1 J :1 , I .1.. • ~

April "' , ..._ - ·~ . 1977. Tap e 1909 :Ui . 2 main co:-tcer~ r:ov; in t~1e entire .a:-ea' the peoole of t~e cis trice are i7o:-tderi::.g \·lhet~er or not t he Labrador Linerboard •,;ill cont::.nue co ope !."at~. The uncertainty in t:\e a :-ea affac : s :10c: 0:1ly c ~e ?cO?le Qill but it reaches muc~ further t~a~ chat. and I ::,el:.eve : i1ac the L~plications are felt right t hrou~ho ut the ? rovince. E~e i~?ortance of the Labrador Liner~oard operation to ~y di strict cannot be ever- e~aphasized.

The entire West Coa st a."'ld I guess . che u hol~ Province \·ioul d be disr upted . '::loth eccnomic.ally and 3ocially . fran i'.Y o~ ... -n dis trict t~er~ is t h e Codroy Valley area, the ~ob inso~ 's a:-ea a:-td the St. Georges ar~a supplJing · :•10od to the Labrador Line r board anrl cert:ainly those !)eople Hill feel the effects of it . . It has go t to caus~ a very real hardship on t~~ and increase t he already hi3h rate of unemployment in the area .

Closing drnvn ·che Labrador Liaerboar d 8ill. in my est::.::tation,is not the ansHer and it is also no t i n· keepiru; ~._ri :h the so-called policy o£ support : o r res·ource based i s.dus try . - ., l" :·) . l . i

:\nri l 'lt:. 1 -..., ~ ·. i .' T !'.-1' feel t~at the ~ro~1e~s are t~e ~iph cost of npe~~ti~~ the ri1~~ is total ooeratinp cost. I ~~ulr sav th~t ~a~ra~or LTner~oar~ is ::trert Fee~ that it is. rrne into it- if it PaS Jonh~~ int"O, COT'1.1Jletelv lool·ecl into ?nf 8.1J the facts '-:>rrJI10"'i-tt out anr a1J t r e. f:i?nres tota11eC. 1~-;'J I , . think thl.t most of it is l"'istnanage~ent e:x11enses. I tb.i.nk the hl_a!!'e sl->C'11.1Jc po ~vhere i.t be1on?.s ar.d T rln not tl"·inlr tt'.e people ::-is'!i'.a.n::tP:e!"ent trat c--ent o"1. there jn the last: con]"1e "F yeMrs.

I thin !<- ~,1 e. h;e.ve to 'h.-rin.c:: all t!">at nnt in the ope'!1. nr a reasofl for clns-!np- rlovn the La"rr>cor r . iner~nr~.r~ "j 11

T'he commictee enC1niry relati.nP, to :"<'"e 2 ~0val ro,..mj ssion ;:~_ppointec to investip-::> .te t!oe onerati0n to elate; to a.s!-- for .? nrC1o-r~c:: . .::: renf'rt em t1-.e cont;qr:t Pith rr interest frn!'1 '';.>cMi _] J.an Bloedell, -::>yj ce 1\-ros. or "~"''' other nrivate co.,.,ce:T' re ~nrc. rase rlf r:he on~r::>.t'"n; to nrovide costs for the island fro~ t~~ nrivate sect0r. to u~derta~e the FoJlo~ino actions: a corri r :ee err. r~r-i r-~:1}

_\ v !' i J :-?

s) l () 7 7 T.P-J. ~inancial data so th~t W8S rot r~ce~~?ry. J c-:?.<m those close doFn .

Anril :?.!).1()77 M1-1 ~1RS :-!aciSAAC: an awful lot of lvork, an alvful lot of concern ~as gone into it. I think we have to consider the effect that it is going to h~ve on the area, if it should hapnen.

I saH Stephenville turned into a <!host town once 2.lreaci'l Fhen ;:he r_·s .\ i:::- ?o rce Base closed out: there, :Yhut te rs r..,ere on all the \vindo~·JS, oeoole practicallv gavf' t!:eir l_;.ouses a~v-ay -in fact I had one there, ~ve had one there, we had to sell it and we got, I l::lelieve, $2,900 fer it and this is going to hannen again. - Tf,ere are an aVIfnl lot of neonle invested in nropertv in Ste~henville and have put: their li.':e savings into it and it is not too pro~ising, it could end up ~.;here people Hill have to do the same thing.

And I think certainly if there is anything in the air on the closure of Labrador Linerboard that the people should be made al.rare of it and made aware of it as soon as possi~le. The employment situation in the entire Bay St. George area is something that everybodv up there is concerned about right now. He have a large percentage of our people on unemulovment and a large percentage on social assistance. \•ie have a group of young people lvho are not eligible for social assistance, they are not eligible or they cannot draw unemployment for the simule reason that they have never worked.

Our young neople are getting out of school, t~ev are com~leting their enucation and thev are finding it imnossible 1 rot only in the Bay St. George a rea, of courc;e. I knm.J this is Provincewide and ryrobahly t~e same thing ann lies right t;,.roughout, ri gl-tt across t~e countr..r. -qut :i.n the meantime some thing has to be ~one to ~81n our young neo ple. t~ev ar e t he r e a l vi c tims. T~ ev· do no t r:ualif? for anv as sist An ce, t h. P.v -:=tre ,.,.::l.l1· ing arounr'i '·'ith t~ei r han (Is i.n their ood·.ets, '3rlnc;;>.ter! young :ce n e.n.d '!Ornet'.

"~O rio not \:nor.; ':v':lere to turn, certainlv canPot find A. :ioh. '!:".d t::.e io b creation nrogrammes are not ;<eared to accol"modate the m.

-\uril 2h, 19 77 Taoe lQJ.l Mos~ of the iob creation,or the £overn~ent jon creation ;>rog ratm;'e ,.;as geared mostly to the neo?le ;,.;ho ~. re on social assistance . And the Canada r.ror!..-_s is "eing - most of the job opnortu!lities cher.e a:-e filled by oeoole Hho '-lave families . ~~-:.d then the '":'oum~ Canada r.:ork.:; is emnlovin-s r.:he young students '~o a~e still in school, gtace ten and eleven, and t his leaves t~e voung people '·'ho have comoleted their education out in the cold, there is no ~ ro g ramme f.or them.

And I certainlv t hink that somebod y is goin~ to !-,ave to do somet!'lin~ - eitt'.er t~e federal or the provincial level of ~over.u~eo t is ~oi:1~ to "'i3.ve t o take a loo k at: :,~"'ac is ':aooenin~ ~·ri t h au r young oeop le todav . I :·Ioulrl like to have a few ~.;ords to sa:' on the fo rescrv o r ogratrn!1e . The refores::ation is •.rhat mainlv concerns me .

He !'lave thP. .:>Jruce buch.;onn or oblem and <:·7e do not knoH ho\·i or if it is ever gain~ to he tont~ollerl, ~.;e do not knm·; if sprayin~ is go i:1.~ to !-:e t~e ansHer . ~.Je do not have the Eor es-c access ~oads to be ahle to jar~est the infested timber. I do not ~elieve>or I do not think the paoer comnanies, P.oHaters or PriceJare Jeing asked by government to harve st: the in£e sted timber . ~·'ayhe r.:~e y are .

I hone thev are he cause I helieve r.1hat they are doi::1.g right nm.:r is the7 are taking the t·Jood that happens to he closest and the best ·vood , and t~e infested ~.mod is left in the tvoods . The over-mature and the infested ~..ro .od i s not ;,ein!! cut . ~nd until this is done all t..re are tioin~Z is d est:::o yin g ;.;ha t He i-)ave. left: of ;:'·e forest industry . . l.. counle of years ago, I helieve it t.,;as in c!"te 19 75 Soeech from the Throne there ~.;as an

article t ' l \ ..... ') ,) ). .... ._

April 26, 19 77. Tape 1912 PJ1 - l YRS. :t,.'\CISAAC: on building forest access roads so that the infested timber could be harvested. I knm,7 that there has been some progress in this -v1ay but not all thA.t much. The management, the forest manage111ent, I think, leaves a lot to be desired. I have gone into areas where Hood is being harvested. \.Jhat I am mainly concerned about is this big heavy equipment that is being used today for 'C·JOod harvesting, ~-rr. Speaker.

I have noticed that in harvesting the mature timber these big harvesters are, I ~vould say, aL11ost destroying just about- everything in their path in order to get the :nature ti.-:1ber. And you •.valk in over the cut-over areas and you Hould ·think that it was a big land clearing programme. It almost looks like the carpet on the floor here. And the topsoil, everything is getting torn up completely. It looks to me as though nothing <.Jill ever grow there again. I do not believe that is being properly managed and I do not believe that there is enough effort being put into a referee station, if any.

I know that there '-7ere talks about a couple of years ago. and they have got the nurseries in different areas of the Province) ~ut I do not believe that it is working out very well. I am told that they have experimented Hith it and it has not proved satisfactory. They have not been able to produce the seedlings that tb.ey need to continue the progr2m.me. But my concern is that if something is not done;and if it is not done fairly soon,that it will be too late to do it. I know that our forest is supposed to be a renewable resource.

But the r.vay it is being destroyed today, I do not knm·;- I would hate to think that in thirty, forty years from nmv we uill not have a fares t indus try. Unless something is done in the way of reforestation and cleaning up the forest after the trees are :1arvested 1 and then a syste:natic effort made ~vit:,. respect to tr1e reforestation progr3IDme c~i.P-:t uc jus:: '"ill not have ,.,_ forest ind CIS try t~:enty years from not-;. I am told that with ti1e reforestation programme that there are programmes that could 2.nd should ~e carrieci out.

T~1e 8.reas, the cut- over areas shoulC. be cleaned up and nevi trees plar:.ted. I a.11 also I "l 1" :) ,) ~ l

Ar>r .:.1 26 , 1_9 77 . :"ape 19l2 ' ffiS . ?f..~CISA.AC: told that t iis p r og ~ amne o f plan t ing c~aes can be s~eececl up a little or ass ist: ci a littlP- oy usitig fertilizer . I at'! also : old c=:~c ile \.ril l grot. ; in this Pr ovi nce a£d char: it is sorlething chat s:1ould oe giv en some considerat ion . As I said I ~elieve tbl t the '~ ood c:1at is ixesced r-ust 1:>e 'harvesce c first and t ~e ovemar::ured c:...':lber cut :irs~ , shoul d be ~ut : o ~ Labrador Liner~oa ~ d or c~e cOr:l?a~ies to use, b ui) d the fo rest access roa ds and g ee at t:1e iniesced a :- e::ts :irs t . ~...nd if ,,,e canna t

April 26, 1977 Tape 1913 JH - 1 ~S • MAC I S.<\AC : use it or maybe some consideration should be given to exporting it. But the clean-up campaign should be started, in fact it should have been started long ago~but it is never too late and I certainly think that we cannot afford to >vait any longer to get something going 1:vith the forest management programme to get those areas cleaned up and get started on the reforestation programmes, get the infested wood out of the '"oods.

If it means building forest access roads '"ell then that is '\<That we have to do. ~1R. ~ffit'LltY: Hear, hear: MRS. ~1..-";.CISAAC: Clean up the infested areas and follow it with a good effective systematic reforestation programme. I am concerned about it because quite a few of the people in my area, it is a big employment factor in the area. Labrador Linerboard has been taking quite a bit of wood from the residents of the Codroy Valley, Robinsons and St. George's area. They have been hauling an awful lot of wood to Labrador Linerboard. I am concerned about Labrador Linerboard.

I am concerned about what is going on in the forest because of the fact that I have a lot of woodsmen in my area. And another concern, Hr. Speaker, is the fishery in the area. Fishermen in my area are having a difficult time,especially in the spring of the year. We only have I suppose about three what you would call longliners in the Bay St. George area, three or four at the most, ~est of the fishermen in my district are fishermen who are working cross-handed or maybe two fishermen in a boat, in small boats.

They are having difficult enough time-,but in the spring of the year the seiners are in the bay and it is posing quite a problem for the fishermen. T~ey put their gear out and those seiners are co~ing in - I know that they are within their rights to do it. They are given quotas and licence to fish in snecific areas and of course they can come right in on the rocks if they want to and what is hanpening is the inshore fishe~an r ''"I 'I :) ,) ~

April 26, 1977 Tape 1913 J~ - 2 ~1RS • MACISAAC: is placing his gear in the water and those seiners are on the go all hours of the day and night and tearing up and destroying the gear that is placed in the water by the inshore fishermen. I am not saying that they are doing it deliberately but it is happeningJand the small fishe~an is not financially able to replace the gear that is being lost. Just yesterday I had a call from another fisherma~ in my area wco lost a brand new net and I think that this is something that has to be looked at.

If we want to ~eep the inshore fishery going,and I believe that the inshore fishery is a very important part of the fishery in the Province of Newfoundland, I believe that there are thousands of fishermen, small fishermen along the shoreline of Newfoundland and I think that they should be given just as much consideration as the fishermen who are out in the longliners, the deep-sea fishermen or offshore fishermen.

I know that the 200 mile limit is a good thing and maybe the joint venture effort was a good thing,but I do not think that we should lose sight of what is going on with the inshore fishery because I believe that the inshore fishery will be around a long, long while and possibly longer than the joint ventures. I think the · most of our fishermen from around this coast is the smaller type fisherman anyway and whether or not they are the majority they certainly have to be protected, I hooe that something will be done.

Furthermore the activities of those seiners I believ~ mav be creating problems for the fishery in general. I certainly do not think that it is doing anything to help the spawning grounds. ' . ) i ! .. ) .::.. . -

April 26, 1977 Tape 1914 Pk - 1 Mrs. ~' 1acisaac: They are out there very early in the Spring, and long before~ from what I am told by the fishermen, long before the spawning season t~ey are just scooping up just about everything that is out there. ~~d I would say that there is not all that many fish left to spawn by the time they move on elsewhere. So along with destroying the spawning grounds they are depleting the stocks. And I think that the fishermen in the area, the fishermen who have been at it for years and years probably know ,,.,hat they are talking about.

I know th~t the Department of Fisheries gets Eost of their information, or takes most of their advice from scientists .\<Jell maybe the scientists are better informed, but I am inclined to go along with the fisherman who has been at it all his life. Mr. Speaker, another problem or another thing that I would like to bring up is the farming in my area. There are quite a fe~.; farmers in the district of St. Georges. rnere are dairy farmers, sheep, beef cattle, and, of course, the mixed farming. And they seem to be having a rough time right now.

The farmers seem to feel that they are subject to some unfair competition, and by this I mean the competition from the mainland, in the r..;ay of marketing. I believe that the farmers from PEI and New Brunswick are getting probably a better deal from government than the farmers here in Ne~.;foundland are getting~or I am led to believe this anyway.

I am told that they are getting quite a few subsidjes, they are getting subsidies on early potatoes, their fertilizer is being subsidized, seed potatoes. 1illd they are able to ship potatoes in here and put them on tne market at a much lower prices than our local farmers can do. And I certainly believe that t~ey must be receiving those subsidies oecause the vegetables are coming in from the mainland and definitely are on the market here at much lower prices than our local potatoes.

So I think this is something in order to give the farmer a chance to survive; I think this is something chat definitely has to be looked at. I£ indeed they are getting the subsidies on the mainland • .l ') . \ • J <) ..... ' .

April 26, 1977 Tape 1914 PK - 2 Hrs. Naclsaac: there must be something that can be done to assist the farmer here in ~.f ewfoundland in order to make it possible for him to compete market-wise with those people who are shipping vegetables in here from the mainland. Tb.ey have a freight charge no doubt to pay over and above what our farmers have to pay and yet they still can market their vegetables at much low·er rates than our fanners can. A ~·T Em I.

YiE~illEP.: '-fRS. ~1aciSA:-'..C: And I was going to suggest that maybe if this is the case maybe there can be something done to assist the farmer in Newfoundland in the way of a subsidy on fertilizer or something. I certainly think that is going to have to be looked at,otherwise we are going to have very gew people who are interested in it • If they cannot ' com1Jete, if they cannot sell their vegetables, there is not much point putting in a crop in the Spring of the year and having to dump it in the Fall, and this is what is happening.

For the past fe~v years nm,; farmers in my area have been forced--or I will not say 'forced to dump it~ but they did have to dump it because they could not sell, and had to get rid of their potatoes. Thousands of bags of potatoes had to be dumped because there ~.;as no sale for them, and no storage. I am told that there was a ·.

April 26, 19 77. Tape 1915 RH -- l crop failure last yea~and I know there was a crop failure last year. And I am told that our farmers ~vere paid or given $1.80 a hundred ueight, and :.iova Scotia and P. E. I. farmers ~vho had the same proble,"'l got $3.60 a hundred r.veight. So I think that r.ve are going to :1ave to level it off and try and make it possible for them to compete ':vith outside markets. Nova Scotia also has a subsidy on land. I am told that ner.v farmers getting into business in the beef cattle business they are in, shee?, t-Jhatever, are given so ii!any head of cattle to put in \vith his -stack.

And I do not think that our far;ners a-::-e encouraged. They are certainly not encouraged in any of these Hays or any way to get into business. They are having financial difficulty. There is an awful lot of young people, I believe, who '..lould go into this kind of business, into dairy cattle or bee£ cattle or farming of any nature if they could get the assistance from goverLli!lent that they need. They cannot ,..,alk up to a bank and get the assistance that they need to get started in business. And I am told that they are having difficulty getting any assistance whatsoever from government.

In the Robinsons area quite a fe\v farmers, tbey have quite a few good facilities there~ I must say, a lot of them have been built through LIP grants - r..;rell~ a lot of hard \.J'ork and effort on the part of the farmers. And I am not saying that the Provincial Government has not helped. But there is still a lot that they need. Ir the Rob insons area, for instance, they have a problem with chilling their neat.

The Meat turns black a£ ter about a week and farmers have told me that they have been in contact with the Department of Agriculture noH for the past fe~·J years and they have talked to three different :hnisters of Agriculture. Each has told them in tu-::-n t;:,.a t they ~;roul.i do something to assist ther:~, c:~at they ~·rould take c.J.re of the problem for tl,_em. And it still has not been taken e<_re of and they still have the problem. They are still operating. They are --

April 26, 10 77 . Tape 1915 PJI - 2 'l·!R. ~·!ACISAi'.C: determined not to give up. But they are certainly working under very, very adverse conditions. Tney have no facility out there. There are a lot of farmers there vrho groH pigs and they have no facilities out there for killing pigs. They do not have a freezer. They need a freezer in the Robinsons area. And they have been after this for years and just cannot get the freezer. As I said~they have a lot of beautiful facilities. Tney have the vegetable storage and all this.

But they do not have enough facilities, they do not have proper facilities to take care of their meat. There are quite a fer.v beef cattle far!!lers in that area. They cannot expand their operation because they cannot take care of the business they have right now. In the Codroy Valley area we have the same, much the same proble!!l. We have people out there, farmers \vho are <:Jorking very, very hard and they have been trying to improve their facilities, their slaughtering facilities. Right no~v they are i..rnproving it. They are puttin~ an extension on their facility through a LIP grant.

They :·w.ve been trying to get some additional money from the Provincial Covernr;tent to put in .2n overhead tr a.ck ':hich they are told is necessary. LIP grants and the famers themselves are doing a very good job but not too much input from the goverr~ent. As I said,they have been trying to get the money for the overhead track~which is only about $5,000 they are looking for. And they have not been able to get it or ;. '3 ') i' .. 1' .... "

April 26, 1977 Tape 1916 JM- 1 ~-S. MACISA..>\C: were not able to get it from the Department of Argiculture;and this is the department that I believe should be helping the farmers, doing cJhatever possible to help them, to assist them. I have to say that they did not have much success this time. However 1 the.Department of Rural Development-and I am very grateful to the ~inister of Rural Development~· he came through - they met him in the valley only last week after contacting the Department of Agriculture several times and having no success.

Last week they met with the Hinister of Rural Development out in the valley. He 1Jas out there to open a facility and they explained their situation to him and I am very grateful to hb~ that he has made the money available to them to complete their slaughtering facility. So much for the farming, ~'!r. Speaker. I have to touch on water services in my district. We have few towns which have complete systems or almost complete systems. We have Steubenville Crossing r,;hich is ~-Tell along the way with their water and sewer programme and hoping maybe to be able to comnlete it this year. St.

George's is not too badly off. They have the central area of the town done or just about completed _.,but they have the Seal Rocks in Shallop Cove area and that has not been touched and I believe that the problem there is - I certainly think that they could have had water if it were not for the way that the funds for the water and sewerage project was squandered there last year 1 not by the town council ~ut I think that the project was not handled properly. ~aybe it was the engineers·and I will not say too much more on that now because I know there is sort of an investi~ation going on into it.

But I certainly hope that out of that investigation will come funds enough to complete at least ~he water for the East and Hest ends of the town. ,,.re have throughout the district quite a few artisian wells. In fact I was not able to count them. I know that in some communities there are six and seven artisian wells drilled .. : . ') . . ! , j ~ '

April 26, 1977 Tape 1916 .Df - 2 MRS. i'l~CISAAC: and this was all done prior to elections. And I am not saying that it was done by this administration. !-fast of them, I have to admit~were drilled during the previous administration, But regardless of who drilled them they are still not of any benefit to anyone in the communities.

We had a couple completed last year., for which I am very grateful to the ~finister of Municipal Affairs~but we still have quite a few that are mere hol~s in the ground and this ~,;rould not concern me if it was not such a hardship on the people, But everywhere I go in my district~from one ena of it to the other~I meet peonle going >vith buckets and pots and barrels and anything that they can find to drag a drop of water in.

I certainly think that this is one of the services that should be - As far as I am concerned it is the ~in service~because to most of us who do not have to carry water or who do not have any problem except turn on the tap and the water flows~we do not have a full appreciation of the problems that peoPle have, They have to carry water, people with eight and nine children in family carrying water to do the weekly wash along with for every other household need.

I certainly feel that this is something that any government should look at and it should be probably if not the top priority certainly one of the top priorities, to get water to every community in the Province. The roads in my district I cannot complain about. I must say they are in fair - well they are not in fair shape~because I do not think there are any roads in the Erovince that are in good condition this year- But they are as good as they are anywhere else in the Province ~I am sure ~and ' . .;ith the exception of a few miles most of it is oaved. 1 ~ l I) ~ . J .) ....... ..,

'T';:,_pe 1917 I hore th::>t caybe 1-:e ~~Y ?et another 1.ittle b-it oF naver.".e!'1t th~s

section 0f Trc>ns-rClna.ca. ~rjp-)lr.~;:;.y ii" m.v ristrict ,.,jJ 1 1---e "'iver c:ore. I cannot think o~ anv ri.rrbt noc.r. So than\-: y0u kindly. Pear, hear! :vp SPT::';'_VET': Is the Pnuse readv for thp onest-ic:!'? -- ~he hon. Me~ber for ~ur~eo-Bav r'Fs~o~r. ~-'r . Speaker - You cannot speak. You are not on the list. Fhat is th-is about list? 7\..:'T Hn~J. v-s~.fBF'P: You are not supposed to sneak. '-'T'. sprvn~TS: The impact vlaS l:.incl of si_xfolc1 but T only spoke once, on an CI.T''endMent actuaJly, '-'r. 5'peCl.ker. "r.

Sreaker, after "e:inf. aFav fro-r thP haJ lo<.ver' ('ha!"'rers for a fp<,r rays one neecs tn get some th:in<?s off cme's crest. '-11<'.t better ti!T'e than this evening? I heard son"ethin9' ahout a list. I have not seen any Jist,and 1 am ?lad I have n0t~;:;n~ I R!"' ?Jar' ~v na~e '•'?S T"Ot on it because J: intenc1 tr stancl in this LTrnse r.~J,enever T "eel thet J c;?.n serve smne purnose bv rojn9: sn. I feel thet T r:?T' .serve that MR.

HORGAN: negarrl ess of 3.ny a?:ree!l'.ent tJet·Feen the parties. ''"" s r~ ... 'r:-.rc: : a~ree~ents sn~eone shoulrl tel] ~e about the~ or tell m.v collea~te Fro~ 'T'rin j tv-Ray de ~.'eroe ("r. Do•-1e) about theM~for exa~\l] e. ";r i'! ryree!T'en.t is to .s~eak jn accorclance Fi tr. tr1e ru.l.es of the rronse. "'here '"0.c: or ~C"T'Avi sta ::ort~"l (''r. r:ross) s tc>C'>c uv, "r. Sneetl·er. a~reement that, as I ~nderstood it, Me were ?Oinp to pet this th~~~ ~~ntrol hjs ~~~hers. r'rnss) t ., ') : ~ . ,) .) '-' '

~are 1°17 rrouse Leacl.er. So, "r.

Sneaker, just a - You are not on the list. '~at Rre ~e oneratin~ under here? ~ list or ~t~n~in~ understood I ~Rc' forty-five minutes on the main rnGtion;ancl. then if I moved my a!"'end!T"ent another t~·70 or three <,ours on that, and so o'!". 'f1-lat \•las l"V understanding. \·nether or nrt 0f co•1rse I P:ilJ move MY fiP~l J v kid-s the hucke.t ~·".!" r.1e say in ou-r verna en] ::o.r, v~r~r soon flfter he c:ives up the ~·?i 1 1. to survive. nne '·mule! apply the .. '1T"a l,ocrv anc very ouic~lv cr~e to the conclusion t~at this crovernrnert is a~out to 1-:iclr the hucL~et. '!'his (!O~rerT'T"ent is <?bout tn 1,·-fck the 1--ucl:et, and indeerl 1"2Y have ~ore so 8lre~~y so feebly th2t ve rlid not ~car the soun~. ~he C8SP has aJ] the evi~~nce of ri?or ~ortis, all t~e evirlence rf the after reat~.

Especial} y the member for Harbour Grace (Mr. Yonn91. llicl he ever. neat~ -i.s the one suhject he nnderst;J.nrs. '"'eath is the \lne snb;ect re has ;1 vestee ·i.nterest in, the business of rhe unrer»:ronnr:!. r.TelJ I PQU]CI Stt~~e.c:t that hP ras Ot:his h;;.ncls 01 h.i~ HhopPin!! cor~se. ' ne taJ.l~s,rhP ' ~ore re <1 corpse iE. he !'11tts the cover C'T'. ~t ]e;;sr r can acnreciate ~is r~ste hut re i ~ '.:! ~ j r- ry t i~ p 11 r r-; ('r r r co~ fin r1 ()~-"' • (Innuc.i'r.J.P)

·"-" t" i.l 2 h ' l C) 77 I c'o not kno~-r. '·'r. lij_e ~en baker

April 26, 19 77 Tape 1918 (Night) PK - 1 Hr. Simmons: asked the Prime Minister if it was true that,or asked Hr. Earner, I believe, is it true that the paths of glory lead but to the gravey? And it is the nearest thing I can make by way of a response to the ter.n 'gr-a ve' ;;.ihich I '1eard a rr.oment: ago 'But back to my analogy, Mr. Speaker, which was interj_ected into debate in all seriousness, I would suggest to the member for St. John's North (Mr. J.

Carter), and he and I should have a chat because I have taken rather lately to a tremendous interest in fi"sh farming, and I understand he has a similar interest, and I would like to tell him about a salmon farming operation I had the privilege of visiting a couple of weeks ago out in the Western Provinces. But that is another subject. I do want to get back tom~ analogy, and as it applies to the government, because I , like most taxpayers in this Province~ notice all the evidence, all the telltale signs of rigor mortis. I could go through them. One could start with the odor. AI.'{ HON . MEMBER : Stench HR.

SIMMONS: But I believe in the interest of being kind tonight, Mr. Speaker, I shall just leave the thought with han. members that ~.;re are at a frightful period in our parliamentary his tory. There is obviously a lack of will, Mr. Speaker, a lack of will on the part of government. Now that is acceptable, if it could be dealt with, and if there were an election, and "tve could do what has to be done as a people, make our selection and then be~in from square one. i-1r.

Speaker, the real concern, of course, is the effect it is having on the average person around this Province, and there is developing, and there is growing up in this Province very, very quickly a what-is-the-use attitude? iiJhat is the use? And that attitude, Mr. Speaker, is being permeated by the government, by the part-time Premier we have, by the sometimes Cabinet we have, by the lack of policy in almost ever] area of gove~~ent~ I suppose nowhere, Mr. Spea ker, no-.;.There is the lack of policy :uore '-Jl ~ :3.Gt ly obvious ::h<m ;,., r- ' ) 3 ') ;J ') '· ..

April 26, 19 77 Tape 1918 (Night) PK - 2 ~tr. Simmons; the fisheries. Now I know the Minister of Fisheries has some very decidedly different views on this particular subject, because somewhere along the line he has got the impression~or attempts to convey the impression at least 9 that a lot of talk, a lot of wind, a lot of meetings, a lot of make shift programmes constitute a policy. AN HON. MEl'lBER: Press releaseitis. ~1R. SUJMONS: Yes. The press release approach to policy.

Now I do not believe the minister is guilty of any insincerity at all, but I will tell you what he is guilty of it, if he is guilty of anything- and guilty is not the appropriate word here, because I have a fair rumount of admiration for the e~ergy with which he approaches the job but if he has any guilt to share here, it is the guilt of association, the guilt of association with the government, and tvith the Premier that will not even stoop, will not deign at all to be associated with one iota of policy.

One could ask the question, 1fuy was not the minister in Ottawa this week, if the Premier was up there talking about fisheries policy? Of course, there is no need to ask the question, because we know the answer. The answer now - the answer is clearly that there is such a rift betveen these two gentlemen that one will not take the other \vith him anywhere. And that is the kind of si~uation we have on our hands, Mr. Speaker, not only in the fisheries, but we can take almost any area of government, and the personality situation is such in government now that I wonder how they can get anything done.

Is there ~ case anywhere, Hr. Speaker, is there a case an)7'-7here in parliamentary his tory \vhere ~.;e have been so far into the fiscal year '.Jithout a budget? And it has been blamed on linerboard, and it has been blamed on a lot of other things. SOME RON. MEHBERS: In 1972. MR. S UJNONS: Well 1972, of course, ~as ouite a differen~ situa~ion because of the election in ~tarch of that year, and _the government had literally just taken over- they had taken over in January,it is true -out, ._

April 26 , 1977 Tape 1918 (~igh

t) PK - 3 Nr. Si!!lmons: you ki"l.O'W, there are certainly extenuating circumstances there in vie~·' of t he election in ~a rch of that

part icula r year . But, Mr. Speaker, is t here a case anTHhere , except t ~at kind of a case t-lhich is so recently preceded ':Jy an e:ec cion, a general election, and a change of governme nt, and therefore a requirement to get familiar with che financial accounts befo re rushing into a full year budg et? :.

.. ... . . . _.l ·: ~::. ~~esc are ~articular :-2:useC:.: or l?.cj:cJ. t:!.G -.:ill , or lac}:eC: t!:e co'...lr:J.crc to e r~no~·! :_ t to vou ··:oulc:. be a fool to thinJ;: in this ::1artic~la.r trear of restraint, c:;enerally, of inflationarv te::16encies,. o-r- ver~ ~i~~ ~ne~olo·rent. and in ~artic~l~r in cur case s tr i~-:e clearl v t~e :-.est incoc::.~e tent c;over:r:r:·e:-1. t tl12. t ever occupied t~'1e seats of l,)GV-ier in any ~ar liil.!:'centar:/ der-.ocracy, clearly t~e most inco2netent bunch t hat ever, ever ar.:r::-rhere in this countr:.r, in t:'1is ~:.c>.tiorr, in t:1e zree Hor lG., ever occu~iec:. the seats or: ::;o:,;er. ~l1.e ::test the ~ost lac~:incr the nerve to call the::1selves an ac~inistration.

J\ nisr..oner . '""'7.) . ·-'. a. ::tisnor.er Yes, of the terr:',, ·~r. S;'eaker. =ut even ~iven those circw"Tlstances,. 2~r . SreaLer, ~10'. · ! can ":!e justi:':v !!0'.-! t:-:at we are corin~ into the end of April, no ~uG.aet. And here , .. re are on a ?"Jesclay, and tl:e :1inister of E' inance is still i -:: ir..~ ~1is till.e .J.'-·.'av . .. , C:T"T'~("'··r:. --· --....:...- '- ~ ...... . . ' ar:.c·-:..:.er • ~:=:. a : :o~·-" ::::lcs-U'3C:C S

.l'.;.rnil 2 6, 1977; .. -; ,...... t-, ..L.. .............. - ~- t:-:e gentle.":'.an :ron St. ,Jo~n 's I could r ~-\r. S>:1ea}-:er 1 I sJ.nnose 1 if the House ~·JOuld give me leave, taJ:e three or four ~rl1at a ~udget if for. I could exi?lain to him. '•?h:J ,,·e need a budget. ~ 1~ • :· IURP EY : Go aHay, I am after reading more bJ.dgets than you ever ~eard of . ~m. :-IORGAiT: r:ea.r I >.ear! Ah! T~e ~a~er shredder from St. John's Centre. The walkinq ~arer shredder fran St. John's Centre. I~0'4 he eats budgets. :·m. :rCRPI-IY : Go crawl in some hole and h~ul it in after vou. i-Ie has sone taste, :'r. s~ea:-:er.

At least ~e has finallv desonstrated some taste in the r::atter. ::e liJ:es hudgets. ~Jhat a riecc of a nan to have ~or a ::1ember. ~ '!'~ . ·-"' . is . ·~r. SpeaJ:er, The :!inister of Finance is tr~ring tc }et t::--.e right colcur in}·: to suit the diet of t.IJ.e T'"'"enl:·er for St. John's Centre. Perhacs that is t~e nrotlen. ago. that we have on our ~ands the rost i~con~ctent ... -,-, ..... "';~ ; # _J,_ ...:._ • - - '-~ ... .::: , . . ~...:..J..... ,... . ..., -= ]_:l_·-~ r- '' "1 (""" , } ,J ' l ~:

tri.d: t:-ta t <:Je do not need a budget. tl1e ner.b er ~ . . u 0 :"l!l . s r·r~ \·--'-. ~articularly ~ant to tal~ a~aut . T .!.:tc!: o: ~.,:r~re 1s t~:c ~~i11ister o£ ~rans~ort.ation? a~out asrec~e~ts, You talk the crcverr.r.en t :.::ouse J.Jeac:::r 1 --.J ':.Gre, • .L- • • some - l~ LS 00lng to sene coure.-:.e for I c:.o t~:.at is ~!1 accusation aqai.::::;t tl e governr .e::ct ~·cuse Leac:.er or a co~plinent. reallv. I ca.n!"lot :--:--~a~:e 1_1n ~·r I':".2..r:c:.. ':'::.e '}OVernr:ten t Louse Leader lS ~ ver' .:o re.s~ectable i10li tic i-3-.n, .. r,....

I ::;ee. :Iear, I:.ear: - as I understand qa."';re ~-e to ~elie'le that a.n? deals t.here roere •:-;ere on con C.i ':.:.o:::. :..1nc,-2r control . ·m. ... ~7"" "':'\:::)'I .. -~ .:........:-\..:. \.- . ::--.-- .. -· ... '''7.. ~~EA?.Y: ,--~ r -";'""'1-:: _ .. -- --· ,. ..... " ,).. .l... ,_. · ·~ 1.. • 1"""'1 ·- ~ • .. ; . - . .. .:.:l;.:; cr-0r,_-:-,:

... 1-J t ..,,. ..:....J =. recsss. ij_i nLte .. I 77 • .. _ _,. , . 3. .- e ~ere a i.i.t :-:o _. ,.... .::.!..r , 01: 1 ·~r .. s ~ t2a ... :e- , I ··;ill te 2.1 j 'JU r ':-= er I sile._ce ·.i"'.i!e 1:12-t:ir:. •""~ ~1is r e<:a r~ -:s .. ., -· . :-:.a~Jc ycu, ha .-e a _ot o'f ~hinc;s I co :_ d sn.·/ b · t I '.·. ~ . 2. _at e T .:.. in

,.,(., - ·- ' . ., '1t"\il .:...:·, I 1920 ?c~ c~ari~ication, ' <~ J.. . ' . f"!') ::'"'Or.""\T.O'"!'"''? .. _.. . '.:.. _ .. ~-·-- \. :!: e.r:: confused. =asei en t~e fact (0H.. COLLI'~'=) : '.f? sr?·ro~·TS : I thought t:1at \~Tas the point of <7) '(0? ~ .~\:T: ''n a rcint of order 'fr.

S~en~.:.er. ' '·,.i7".iste!' o: ~r-:J.ns-;.;ortrtt:ion a!"'J~ Co~1..rnci::-t~ions. '" ~rouse of Asse:nhly on t~1is innression t~at orC:er. a;z!:'eeC.., fir:1ly a~reed, the Ornosition ?ouse Leader, and on:.- House Leader, t!1at '"e '.;auld allor·7 the l!n.rosition r.e~1::'ers to close '!::ly eleven o' c.loc!.;: ::onie!:h t on the T1:::-cne "TJeecJ.' ceo2.te. Is th"lt ri.r;h!:, 'John'? "R. '<o-q_n_A~!: Tlcat ~vas firr.tly a2;reP-c! unon, and the ~"'nTJosition _, ' · · ~e ~ o1 . Souse Leader is no~ding his head sayin~ it is ri~~t.

Tcday in the U:cuse of Asse:-'11-,ly I -:lid not snei3.l: ir. the deJ-.a te 1::-eca'JSe I 'vent along VTit'l the 252;ree:nent. T~.crQ uas only 0ne 7<1Em from our sic.e who ST'!Oke in th i.s :iei.:ate a:td there '.-7e-..:e seven on t"le onnositP side of the House of Ass<>.nbly. Slx. '!""' • <!)?.G.-1 "T: 'Tor-; t~e Onnosition sneaker 1::C0 is rror-J sncCJ.ki::t::>: i.s sayin::>; ~e diC: not C1ear about t:·ds agree:nent 7 '!n. is us, snrely t~e :Iouse Le4r~er of t1,e nT?nosition. in:ot"r1.ec1 ~.,_is ~. o:-t. :c<:>"l.bc:rs of the same thing. , - , ~ ' ~ I ,) '.· '. :)

"l'ane ':o. 1920 ,...,. I 2 "!D '·• A clarification is rec;_uireC.. _\ clarification is renuired. 0rder, please: 11r-ier, nlease! I do net se~ an~7' su~st.s.~~ce to t~e reT'le.rl~s made hy tl:e hon. minister that -;mule: cl;;ssifv it as a noint of order. There is a difference of oninion clearly betc,Teen the t~v-o sicles of the Eouse but I rl.o not t~ink it is .1. :Joint of order that the Chair certain:!..-, C<'.n rule unon ~nri I :.iould t~erefore as~ .. t~e. :-:art. :T1.e::.ber for 3ur;eo ••r. Sneaker, lest there ~e anv ~isu~dersta~din~ insofar as 8V colleague fron Conception :Say South c·:r. "ol.3.

n) lS concernec' '::lec;J.use I 1-,eJ.i.eve the OJ.inister hA-s left some faJ.se informc>.tion .• nowJ my colleazue :It reo time has instructed me not to sneak or indeed ::my member of tl'e F!ouse that I could nnder.stD.r::I. I to do that I am Pre~are:i to d.o th<'Ct rihether- it is el~ven o 'cloc 1c or four tOT71.0IT0':·7 ,...,o-.:-nir.n,. ~.nd I C'Til exe:.cisirt~ t0 ~xercise it fairly ~rieflv. I i.:J.ter_r: ~ ust of R. q:ui~.lotine rule about eleven o'cloc!-: th:::J.t I .1.71 !"lot na:-"':icula~l'f.;r u ... :; .'- ~.... ...... ,_ ._ "' ..... -.-..'tr!""':l,... _ __, __ ,r.,_' .... 1.- ~ 1......:- •• , 1.....' • ~ ~ ~- ... ;_ I ~ 1_. ,;, ~~ .0 -!-,..., 1"' L ·:.. ~ is .0 ',-1, '") .)

. "' . · ... "<; - ' :!.977 1920 On a noint of or~er . rr:: T "!"'T~ "\ • _, _ _ __,.J. · ··.- . ~ roint of order. .,.., • .. ··_;r. :.~"" . \.'_ .. -.. •. ~· . .. .. - ·-'------- -- ---- · :--~e stat!".er;.t _ 11.1s~ ~a0. e .J'l •>.1r3eo - 3av d.' I:spoi.r:- C''r. ~i""T'.ons) is :r.ta:ly, a]solutel': t~e )'on.

C!e:1~er for Conce~tion 3ay South (''r, ~·:ola.."1) told 1L~, I '~ow :hat too, an~ it is totally an~ a~solutely untrue. i::.e si:-,nl~ ::act is it is r .. ot a ~~nillotine rule, ::a r::tle -?-t to have t:1e snooth running Of.!eration of t':1e ?ouse iTlake c~rtain COlTU"nit~ents and 1!ive an indication as to ,.,ho 1:ill snea 1<: from eac:, 1':1at \vas C.one tori.ay. The hon. ~entle!!lan from -o.urgeo-'!'a;' -2 'Fsnoir ('{r.

Simmons) -_,co_s not on tl,at list and dirl r"ot indiccttc to 1.is ~ouse Learier that he t:·mnted to S!e<:!.:.:. and he "" ·~s c:iven t~e onnortunit7 and he did not give an indication he ':7ante~ to sr.>ea1-:. ·lrCer, T'lease! To the point of order, vr. Snea\er. '~. SPE.AXEP. (DP... C:OLLPTS) : Order, rlease! .\gain t~e :noint of or:ier A.S ex~ressed hv th~ :,.on.

Rouse Leader does not in :-:1y vieu bring the Chair into t!-tis auestion. ':'!-lere have been arrange.T!!ent.s <".lJ.uded tl,e c:.:.o.ir in r:ty ur..derstandin(! is a T'c;.rty tc so I c0 r.ot thinl~ it is a ~oint of order I can ~ule unon. fnr five rn.inutes each. :Cairness a~a;_n. o:-der. c; l I I <• d t

!:.. Pouse Leader if there ~as ~een a docusent nasse~ arcun~ outlinin~ .- '"' r : ) :! 0\ ·{

'll; ·- · ' ' 1077 a~.d ~ counle c£ 2.l ter:1c.tiiTGS. T :12.ve not seen it 'mt Pell a noint of infonnation. r:2.ll it ~·ltat you like. 'm_. HICX:fA~T : I a::t oDening discussions ':·lith t~P- 'l"l!JOSition anr:l t~en ·-:ith the hon. gent]..e1"1an fronJ. LaPoile (:'-fr. ~·Teary) and there is no ~oint ~:o, I 'c<J.ve not :::;ee't'. it. '·:o. Bec~1se t~ere is no ~oint in t~lkin~ tn t~e !lnn .• ~entlemarl ~ro~ LaP0ile c~f"!'. 'Te3.:.

y) U!".til I set !301'""1~ concensus fror". t~e other side. '<'q_ • ~TEAPY : Uell vou could do ~e the courtesv of ~ivin3 ~e t'1e docll'!er.ts. I ~~ve every intention of doin~ '.rp_ :-,oth ap:ree. '-r~ . 'TF. .. \R y : I r.;ill ·-rait untiJ it i_s 2.J.J. ~ttlP--1_, ;ro. "To. 'Jrder, 1""lease~ ur. Sneaker, 3.S!ain hefore _iust cluing up my remarks very auickly in case there ar.e others •>Jho \J,?.nt to speal~ 0U!." C::!.UCUS . an c. I just un~srstood. f~cm ~1i:: ci-.r.t -~ ....... 1 • .1.. c - ~ , ) 'I ' 't .) r;::_s ... r _ ·-. to

'1(.. - · ' 1("\"7-;" - · - ' i ~ ,. _ane .. o. ,~. I Cid tell t:-tc ~'inist2r of Transnort2.ti.rJn 3.n0. yielC to ~-..ea:- f-:c~ ~i.:-.. l:Jecause t~2re is no 11i~ister nr- no ~ore t~~n t~at ~inister. ~e certainly has ~ore to snea~ on, Ee could s~eal: to us on t:Ce fisheries and t'le nla!!t for 0ld Pe-rlican. ?e announce'.i t1:!at one.

It is not d.o~m thP.re ~act 1Jut not a vec:y \·.tell explained fact and he :::nn~lec it tod.av ir, Question '?eriod, Fe could tell us ahout t:-,e overnass <-?est of \.rand "'alls and \.Jhether tl:.at is; you l::.no~r.,that .i.s '"lis tory but what its implications are for his road and brid2e ~olicy in t'le future. So ~~ny issues that tnat sinister coulc s t2.nd in 'lis nlace, it r.mnlo tal~.e hi:n 3.ay.s, '~r. Soeaker, just ~o explain, da~1s and ":-"'eet:s.

It I·JOulrl waste the time of the House. oe very valuable information to knc~·T r.rh.:1t his res-,onsibility He>.s on the overnass r.,;est of Gr2.nri :'aJ.ls, and to :cno•..r hou he .sat by on t~1e ~erryJ.and. suoerintertdency, iust as !_l.e -:'.id in r:oncention Tiny Sout'l Fith ':etro imrolviru:, '[r, Greenslac'.e 2o~m there, that kin2 of situation and ~as been zoin~ on ever since he i;ecame minister, ancl. it is shaPeful, i.t is S~'ocki::.r: heuonrl woTds. He would not he wastin~ the ti~e of t~e ~cuse, "leilart:"!E'nt.

.\n :::il ')t: - .. ' 1?77 T' - 1 noin t of or.de:- , ':r . Sno:a'-:e r • . '~'\ . ~Pl:', .!._t~~ (n ~ rr"\ LLT"~ <:' · - - • • • • v - · · ~ ' • ~ rycint of or1er . ::;ou.:..d vou cl.::.:.if ·_. t h at 3t:lte !':1ent? . ...., · .. '\_,f'r. • Soea.1:ar, t he tern but sir:ce 3e <io.es r:ot -:;e ~dll e-xn2.ain it for hi.:-: . or~-=r . not con s ult , re (: eived no advic e , ·1a.<i -no ci iscussio~ ~ ~ ~c ! ": :~e is c2llin~ :-te a liar . c""""C\.,.··~--.. " .. ·-- , L J I [­ ,). -~ .1 :hat 1 rliC. - . 1 ---·- )

Ta_ne Yo. r~'!:" ·'· !."'1"''0 -' ......... , J. :1l~ase! shoul.-1 ~~ ~·-1 ords sai~ -:_ini.s:cr~ T fr.:.t:), t';_c.:: I ~e t~i2ks t~at t~e hon. member for Jur~eo ~o~ an~reciate ln the s~tuatio~ :.

'rane 1()22 1:!3-l t~at there u~s an actual Pccus~tio~ ~a~e ~v the hon. ~e~~er ~2ainst I ,.-onJ.cl l-one therefore that the hem. !T'e!"'l:er~ will aJlow tbe evenin2 to continue and in doir~ so the hon. ~e~Jer for ~ur~eo-BPy ~'Fspoir voulcl have t~e floor. 0n a noint of orcler. · ~ SPEAfEP: j point oF order. intentjon of stttj_np- in tris Pouse of _ A_ssemb~y anc bein7 ca1lerl inclirectlv a liar. 'T'he state!Tlents !"lace 1-,y the hon. gentler."an for Ettr?'eo-Bay c1 ';:'spoi.r (Vr. Sir!:"C'T'

S) clearly inrlicatc to !"'1e aFter my statelT'ent jp_ the Honse o"' /1sse:mhly in ren] y tn a cuesti nr. - I hCl.ve cJ earJv put for--arc:' the positinl' of the !'epartT"ent c.f ;:'ransporti'ition "'he hon. . I:"e!T'.b e r is nov in~irectlv callin~ ~e a liar and the point of orcer is t~e hon. gentler."an should '-e as1-ed tn retract tl:oat st;:oteT"ent al:'1d retract an.;r >-::>. SI'"''(lr-r<e: "r. Speaker, to t'ce point of orcler. I c'ic_ not call the ~e~ber a liar directly or inrlirectly.

I ~escrjberl a set of Rctions in r,rhich he ~as heen invoJveCI .::tnC: t.rhich re has not r'enierl. ''nd if he Hants tn clean up his act, Yr. Speaker, then that :!s fi'l:ir. I r.-rill net even have to thin!·: he is 11· liar,let 2J.one Si'lV it . "Pt:, '·'r. Spe.:!lrer, that p~ople are ~ein~ ~ireCI Eor ons1tions or ?vnrC!e~ ~ontr?cts on act. thRt js ;l)l. ,,.,• "r"'"(',~~T: ''r. C:pe;:~ 1 rer, on?.. fC'~_nt cf oroAr. - - - ------- ~ rn ''('p_r ;~._ ~·,.__;_: -- .- "') ' .... l .) '± I

Sure there is a pojnt of nr~er. ~here is a oo~nt of nrrler hei~~ ~iscusse~. "~"0 tl-:e point of order, 'rr . Sneal·er, t0 that noint of orrler. to~av in the ~ouse ,. cr:: AsseThly hy re as pArtisan involve!"ent - 'Jim', we rio not ~elieve vou. ~e do not heljeve you. - there r....>as no D;~rti.san connection Fith an'T a:ppointrJent: to the posi t:ion of fC1r.P.-mRn on t~e Sout~ern -~hore. A~~~n T a~ caJlinv up0n the ho~. ~entle!"~n t0 refrain fro~ !"akjn~ a stBte!"ent ~hie~ is ,.,_,e t-on. :~inister of Jt~stice. 'f"P. ~pe::>.ker, to th<!t point of or.rler.

It is .:o. funr.::t!1'enta1 rnl e that any state!"ent mare :-,y an 1-,on. :rentleT'"?.~ oF th:i c:; u0use hns to 1-,e accPpterl. Tt cann0t ~e auesti0ne~. Tre hon. ,<;rent]eT'1an. t'-le hon.

Hinister of TraPsportat1on rtnd row!"11nicatior.l", sair 1 torr,y clear1.v .:>~d categoricall v th.<t t 're riel not have any rli scussi0ns or consult Fi th a .~entle1"!an naT"ecl r.harles Por·rer ~."hn a]_ le?;ec:Uy 1 i.ves on thP Southern Sh0Te of th:!s Province. !1 e, havin~ said r:}-1,-,t, this :-!ottse must unc'er the ruJes accent that state~e~t ~ith0ut eauivncati0n an~ there cpn ~e no rlel:Jate rm it . .,, <::;T'"''n:--r~: -- taT"per5~~ with ~~e ~nr~f~r~~nts, and will you not accept that one?

'nd if t~e st~ tere~c ha ~ pens tn ~e not ~it~in the pa r liarenta rv n!~e ti_e!'; I t-1i.Jl Pit!'-c rr.~·· it , ~ut I , .. ~lJ ~::o on h-=lievi"q i t, ''r . S:>e~k e r . I nnrle.r~tan<l tre poir. t oF f"'rt:le!" ari:::es 0 1.tt C"F the f.~ct t hc:.t the l:on . rd.nist:er !"'ace a statement in the House t odc:y sRvinc cr;;=.t <~. bv t he hon . wi~ister . Fh.r.t !--e eli c say t.;as , a s f Rr af: T can r ecall i t, thc>t "'e felt th:1t t!-ere '•as s0rre nolitica2. inr.uc in to the hon . rinisce r ' s decj~ion . '.!e eli~ t".Ot ~as far as I c<m recaJl,$<'. '~ rh<>.t ~ he h.ol1 . !"'in ).ster J-t ad cl"ns

u) c:ef ;d t h che Form er r.!e!"ber o~ :?erT vl <1nf. . T f T aiT1 incorrect jn tre~t T ''lC"tt ]cl 1-.e ouite td llin~ to ac~OI..l rTl f'(' !' 2 S;,C'n: ··"'lj !. ~ anrl see if r.·e can consult the recor cls .

_bril -;:r-:, , 1"\, .., _. _ _) - 1 I t~i~~ it would heln. 'len. minister'} for instance,allm·i t"le l1on. '"'.eTI'.~er for 3ur~ec - TI~J" d 'Esnoir to state ~71-:et~er t~1is is tihat he st2.ted o-r ~ot7 Let 7'J.e sa'i tllis, "!'r. S!]ent~_er. 1 ~·Ji]_l r:.ot rise by leave of the ::'dnister. I 1:-Ii2.1 rise to continue :::.y aG.c1 ress or on a point of order_} ;Jut I <1111 not goi~g to see:c. the nernission of any mi:r..ister of this Honse to sneak. I have a ri~ht in this Fouse. ~-:o\·T, .. ~r. Speaker, I thinJ::. T can clar:..fy for ' r,.

L o not -:::-i t'-1. t~e rr1i:nister' s pemissicn the difference here,and it is ~ d!fference cf ouinion, the ~iniste~ feels I cast aspersions on his statement today about not having been consu2.ted, At no tiBe die I imply or say he '·7as consulted, What I did say in almost those '·iorG.s in "''Y example ~ms to sa•r t"'.;:tt a follo~·rer or a hack or a protege or ar. associate of Chac-lie Power was an~ointed to the nosition. I did not say, nor di~ I infer t~at it w2s done in any ver~al or written consultation Hhich did take place betv;een the minister and '-1r. Power.

IC.id not say t~1at. .,.,1-:e minister thought I said that, but as nn so "'la:l.v or.:..,er occasions t"te ':'linister i1as iumned to t:Ce \·n:-onP conclusion. Orr.er, nlease! I c-70 uld rule th~refore that th~_s ~eing my understrtndin<! of the rern?..r 1-:s that rl.id nass}a:1.tl of conrse one can only go hv "'!emory anc th.is noint c01tld loe hrom;ht un la.ter as a r.oint of n~rs0nal TJrivile~C:e if t'1e r~corC. sho~,rs t'1at one's r.er".orv is incorrect, But t:':lt ';eins: vr. Snen~er, T believe hath t'1~ "'lin!ster ar~ t~e

co!_Jeao:ues have '·Jell riesc:iber! but J r.r~!'.ted to have SOTllP. ir_,,_tt 0:1. It is vict~ ~ izins a lot of cennle. But I did give an nndertakin9: a fe~,7 '"'10T71.e!lts a'::o that t~ere nay be an.ot~er an~ SC'l tor that reason I i:;.tend tr fi.ni.sh here and save :ny re!'larks fo1:1 a later opportunity. :f'\. S?E..~YZR (DP.. COLLI~·~S) : T~e l1on. wember for ra~le ~: .. ~rer. .,... . _ne c10n. Couse Leacer .

I than~.-. t~l.~ ~on. gen_tlenan from. [aq:le ~~i\re. r for his co·rtesy and I understand that he , ' lS no~:·; unn~1.e to conpletP h~s nd~r~ss within the ten ninute~ r~sa2n1ng, I t:-:erefc::e. nove that t:1is ~:rouse do not adjourn at eleven o' -lock. "r 1"' SP: . -::I; (D?. C')LLI:·;s It is moved that t~e 7ousc d0 not adjourn at eleven o 'clocl:, Those in favour "Aye'', those against 11 ~T~y", in my vieH the "Ayes" have it. The hon. ~ember for Eagle ~iver. for givins me that extra tine. ··,fr. 2.nea 1'-er, the T~1rcme Speec;1 is traciiticna:!.ly a sr.eech. ln ~1ich o~e deals with one's district.

In my case >.e-re I put "'l.UC~ earlier in de~~a~e, cres.:=nti;:1::; some oE these noints c:uch e.2.rlier · on 11qt for ' ".rious re2.sons 1.nd so on it is r_cr,.,r ~r.d:2<:: 11.., 2.t ten 2i;:1ute.s

]. ')-; 7 Sue~c~ 2ein.? concluC.ed and T. at;; i us t ::etti :u~ 0':1 to c!"f.scussin~ o ' clock at ni '?~t to leave. a-c.ri ?:et '::ol".e an~ ,,-a;:c ~ t~e ' ~oc key ::~at c has anc! do '·7hateve r :ner.:oe=- s "7ar ious1 .y ,.;.J.nt ~o ?.o~·7ev er, I fe ·~l very strongly about sane of t~e things that I \ave her e th3.t !. ·;:!..sl: to ;:>!:'::::sent ~nC. tal~ :. ~0ut . I ') • ' ) :1 .) . ) ··- 3

April 26, 1977 Tape 1924 PK - 1 HR. STR.A.CHAN: trying to do a bit of work, but what I have to say then is of some kind of value regardless of how many people wish to listen to it. The district of Eagle River I could describe is a very varied district. I could talk about the various problems from both the Inuit in the North and the Indian down to the settlers and down into Labrador South. The fact that the district is longer from Port aux Basques to St. John's, in fact almost right out to the 200 mile limit is the length of the district: The fact that the district has two time zones.

And many other facts about the district that I could enunciate, I could discuss many things about the district that it needs, or we feel it needs, the airstrips, the fisheries and so on.

However I am concerned about the people of the district and the people in Labrador generally, because it always ends up where they always get together~are very much concerned with, as well as these. small things ~vhich affect their communities, and I will be the first to agree that they do not see eye to eye from the ·various communities, but there is often a great deal of dispute between communities, and some of them ver; difficult to size up exactly what the need, in a material sense, and it is also very difficult to be able to give them the material things.

But there is one thing that is very common and very clear and it is that they are all very much concerned with their environment, very much concerned with what is occurring or what will occur, and they are going through)in the last few years,and will for the next five to ten years.go through a soul searching experience of trying to find their identy and try to find where they are heading and ~:vho they are and 1vhat they are. I do net intend to talk very much on that.

But I want to ex~lain a little bit of where they stand on some of the developments r.;hich are fast approaching the Labrador Coast and the rest of Labrador. ihere are many developments,such as uranium development ~Jhich has created a great deal of di£ f icul ty among them. There are

April 26, 1977 Tape 1924 PK - 2 Mr. Strachan; various other developments, oil and gas developments, with the hydro power development in Labrador. And I wish to discuss some of this, and at least home in on on~ ~articular one on which I have done a fair bit of work, albeit in a kind of vacuum in as much as I do not have the information or much of the information that would be needed or necessary, but nevertheless I have been trying to put together some of the information in trying to present some kind a position or some kind of policy on where we should be heading.

It is a policy which I feel is open to much argument, and I certainly would be interested in further enlightenment and debate on the policy. But certainly it is something that I would ~vish to enunicate and lay out, and I am very deeply concerned about it, I spent considerable time.

I have_a little bit of concern in order to do this I realized full well a couple of weeks ago when we made agreements on this, that we would come down to the wire that we would be in a situation which I would not have much time, and of necessity the forty-five minutes would not suffice in order to describe exactly what I was intending to get at, and the whole point and policies I wish to enunicate. I have had for sometime the wish to discuss this in detail. I do not think that the Budget Speech is exactly the place to discuss it. I certainly was not intending discussing it in the Budget Speech.

I was therefore to the Throne Speech that I was looking to discuss these points of view. I am caught in a difficult position right now, because I wish to get into tvhat I have to say, and describe the whole thing and try to come to some sense of it, but I am concerned that my forty-five minutes is up, then I will not be granted any further time, and that tvill be the end of it just when I am trying to get through some of the quite complicated positions and situations that I feel we are faced with. c..l~l .] ... , '"'"

April 26, 1977 Tape 1924 PK - 3 HR. S TRACHfu~ : I realize also full well that prooably the Minister of Mines and Energy would be very much interested in some of the things that I have to say, and some of them he may totally discard and disregard as unnecessary and not true or not factual.

April 26, 1977, Tape 1925, Page 1 -- apb MR. STRACHAN: I can understand his feelings on this. I first of all have supported very clearly his position that he has taken with oil and gas even though some or. both sides of the House have felt otherwise. I feel very strongly that in some of the positions that he has taken I think they were the · only positions available to this Province, the only positions that can be taken by this Province. I was looking forward to getting into a debate 1vi th him on what I would call substantive issues rather than personality politics.

It was for this reason that I had put together some of this work and tried to get him to do some of these things. The oil and gas regulations I was looking forward to~and I expected that I would get into some of that discussion hopefully before the House closes. I believe, I trust that the oil and gas regulations will be down before the House closes. At the moment I doubt whether the forty minutes or thirty-five minutes available to me will be sufficient. I have no great desire to keep the House open until all hours of the morning. Members who do not want to listen to it can certainly go home.

But I certainly believe what I have here is important. At least to me it is important and therefore I have the right and the desire and the wish to present ..... ~ .... The fact that the nress will not pick it up is immaterial to me. It does not bother me one little bit. It is i.i"Tlmaterial vJha t occurs there. But I would like to express some of the feelings that I have on this. It was with this in mind that I had prepared an amendment on this in order to give

April 26, 1977, Tape 1925, Page 2 -- apb myself sufficient time. I doubt very much whether others will be prepared to get into it. I doubt very much at this time of night or later on that anybody would be prepared to get into it. But since it is the only way I am assured of getting more than my forty-five minutes, and I do not want to launch into this thing to be cut off just when I am trying to get to some of the points, the end points to which I am trying to head.

It is for that reason that, unless I can be assured of leave, and I doubt very much how much leave I would be given, that I would wish to pass amendment on the Throne Speech, discuss this further, and _try to get into some of the situations that we are faced with. I think we will get the Throne Speech finished tonight with no problem at all.- MR. ROBERTS: Do you want to move the amendment? I will have 'Fred' second it. MR.

STRACHAN : To that end then,- I certainly do not want to go into the early hours of the morning, I do not want to go on and on and filibuster and so on, but I do wish to move an amenc~ent to the Throne Speech to give me an opportunity to discuss the things that I have in front of me. The amenili~ent to the Throne Speech - i·1R. J. CARTER : \·Jou ld the hon. member permit a question? t•1R. STHACHAN: Certainly. HR. J. CARTER: Does the hon. member realize that if he moves an amendment, the ar,_end.Ltent may not be allowed and he may have to sit down and could speak no more,

whereas if he fulfills his entire forty-five minutes, as he ~~ishes to do so, no doubt he certainlv has the assurance of that.

April 26, 1977, Tape 1925, Page 3 -- apb MR. STRACHAN: If I may reply to that. I have my forty-five minutes anyway. 3ut the problem is that the forty-five minutes, '-f 1.- I am going to get into some of t:.he things that I want to get into, may not be sufficient. I do not know, it may be,it depends. Unfortunately then I may not get leave, and of course nobody is going to be prepared to give me unlimited t~~e or leave to let me go on. Once I get into it I want to finish it, most definitely. So with that in mind I feel that I want to pass this just to give me time.

I would have done it this afternoon, I would have done it last week or whatever time it was, I would have done it. The ~mendment then to the Throne Speech is to delete i3-ll the words after "that" and replace them with the following: "That this House regrets the failure of the ministry to develop the natural and physical resources of this Province for the benefit of the people of the Province." I move the amendment to the Throne Speech seconded by my colleague from Trinity - Bay de Verde (Hr. Rowe), and I would then like to discuss some of the things I wish to discuss.

April 26, 19 77. Tape 1926 RR ·- 1 :·LR. SPEAKER: It is Boved by the hon. member for Eagle River(:Ir. Strachan), seconded by the hon. member for Trinity-3ay de Verde(Yr. RoHe) that all the r.;ords after 11 that" be deleted and replaced Hi th the follm·ring, "This House regrets the failure of the minist2'y to develop t~e natural and physical resources of this Province to the benefit of the people of the Province.;' The hon. member. :1R. I. STRACH~.l~: Mr.

Speaker, in the world of oil and gas ~v-:-:ich may not ever come to anything in this Province, but yet again I renember the \vords of the previous ?'1inister of ~·~ines and Energy, Nr.

Leo Barry, ~·1ho I believe did an excellent job at t:he time, I had r.1any discussions r..rith him on the Labrador Coast and I believe that he adopted the right attitude that the oil and gas developments, if there is any possibility I·Jhatsoever they come and the reckoning nor,J is. a seventy/thirty chance of the development occurring >felt that we should be prepared in the best possible ~•ay because it •.vould be a major upheaval in this Province. I have been looking at soGle of the situations elsevhere in the v7orld.

I am trying to study as much as possible, in fact as many parts as possible from elseHhere in the world because there is one thing 1.fi.1ich is very stricking. Although the provinces and the countries involved, now involved and producing crude oil to the companies, the multinational corporations have had varied history, a history ~.;hich is very turbulent. T.11ey have changed their forms of government many times.

TI1ere is one thing that is sure, that ever since 1859 'Hhen Edwin Drake first found the oil in Titusville in the States, ever since then the oil companies, apart from the breaking up of the Standard 0 il Company the Rockerfeller group of companies~into Standard Oil in Jersev anrl St~ndrtrrl r~lif~~~;~ ever since then the oil companies have its one total continuous history. Their history l1as been ::taintained all the ~vay along. Countries