Fourth Session, 41st Parliament

(2019) OFFICIAL REPORT

OF DEBATES

(HANSARD)

Thursday, October 10, 2019

Morning Sitting

Issue No. 273

ISSN 1499-2175

The HTML transcript is provided for informational purposes only.

The PDF transcript remains the official digital version.

CONTENTS

Routine Business

Introductions by Members

Statements (Standing Order 25B)

World Mental Health Day

J. Thornthwaite

International Day for the Eradication of Poverty

M. Elmore

Agassiz Speedway

L. Throness

World Mental Health Day

B. D’Eith

A. Weaver

Action on homelessness

R. Leonard

Oral Questions

Premier’s office records and freedom-of-information requests

M. Polak

Hon. J. Horgan

M. de Jong

Logging practices and protection of old-growth forests

A. Olsen

Hon. D. Donaldson

Forest industry and government support for communities

A. Wilkinson

Hon. J. Horgan

J. Rustad

Hon. D. Donaldson

Response to criminal charges against Port Moody mayor

T. Stone

Hon. S. Robinson

Tabling Documents

Elections B.C., report of the Chief Electoral Officer, general local elections, October 20, 2018

Office of the Registrar of Lobbyists for B.C., Investigation Report

19-04 , lobbyist: Dimitri Pantazopoulos, February 12, 2019

Office of the Registrar of Lobbyists for B.C., Investigation Report

19-05 , Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers, designated filer: Tim

McMillan, July 10, 2019

Office of the Registrar of Lobbyists for B.C., Reconsideration Report

19-04 , lobbyist: Dimitri Pantazopoulos

Motions Without Notice

Membership changes to committees

Hon. M. Farnworth

Orders of the Day

Second Reading of Bills

Bill 36 — Gaming Control Amendment Act, 2019 (continued)

R. Coleman

B. D’Eith

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 10, 2019

The House met at 10:05 a.m.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Prayers.

Introductions by Members

B. D’Eith: Today I am proud to introduce two remarkable people from Coast Mental

Health: chief operating officer Bruce Smith and mental health worker Lisa

Bui.

Coast Mental Health is our province’s partner in supportive housing in

buildings in my community in Maple Ridge as well as Vancouver. Like

communities across the province, Maple Ridge has faced a housing crisis, and

people weren’t getting the homes and supports they needed to move forward.

Modular supportive housing is changing that, and it’s changing lives. It’s

changing lives of people like Randy and Josh, who I’ve gotten to know and

now have a safe and secure place to call home. That’s only because of the

support and care of organizations like Coast Mental Health.

We would like to, please, make them very welcome.

A. Weaver: In the gallery today are a number of special guests from Connections

Place. I had the pleasure of meeting some of them earlier this year, and I’m

pleased to welcome them here today. It gives me great pleasure to introduce

Jackie Powell, Sister Patricia Donovan, Sister Judi Morin, Cherry Lynn

Brown, Bruce Saunders, Joe Devison, Naomi Beck, Owen Jones, Mike Mori, Tula

Rivera, Peter Fitzpatrick and Sonia Garza.

With your leave, hon. Speaker, I’d like to take a moment to note that

I first met Jackie Powell in 2014, when she came to me as a constituent with

a vision. She wanted to realize a goal of providing a day program for people

with mental health challenges. I was incredibly impressed with her

presentation on the need for a program modelled on the Clubhouse

International program. Jackie has persevered and built support for her

initiative and kept me informed of her progress for the last five

years.

I recently visited the new facility in Victoria that is serving people

in the region with support. It was an honour for me to visit and speak with

the people who are already benefiting from Connections’ programs and

services.

Would the House please make all of these guests from Clubhouse

International and the local Connections Place feel very welcome.

Hon. J. Horgan: In the precinct today and joining us in the gallery, I think probably

midway through question period, will be 26 grade 5 students from École

Millstream Elementary in the great community of Langford, British Columbia,

just down the street — growing faster than any other place on Vancouver

Island and perhaps in British Columbia. I hope all of the members will make

those 26 students from grade 5 at École Millstream Elementary very, very

welcome when they arrive.

J. Yap: I have some guests in the gallery who are here to witness the business

of the House and question period. With us today are Pius Chan, Cindy Chan,

Tony Ma, Louisa Wong, Dickey Tam, Joeii Tam and Becky Cheng. Would the House

please join me in giving them a warm welcome to the Legislature.

Hon. M. Mark: Today in the gallery we are joined by the chief executive officer,

Janice Abbott, from Atira Women’s Resource Society, and she is also my

constituent; and Lynda Teskey, the director of residential

programs.

[10:10 a.m.]

Atira does amazing work providing housing for women and children

across the Lower Mainland, including more than 130 units of supportive

housing in Vancouver. These are part of the 600 modular supportive homes

we’ve opened in Vancouver alone. Aneki Housing for Women, Sarah Ross House

and The Anjok are delivering the homes people need and helping to keep women

and children safe.

I’d like to thank Janice and Lynda for their work, and their entire

team.

Would the House please join me in welcoming my special

guests.

R. Leonard: Joining us in the members’ gallery this morning is Colleen Ross,

manager of finance and administration with the John Howard Society of North

Island. The John Howard Society of North Island provides supportive housing

for 46 people in Courtenay at The Junction. It’s one of the projects our

government opened in April of this year. It’s wonderful to see the work that

Colleen and her colleagues are doing to support people in our community who

have experienced homelessness and to help them move forward with their

lives. Will the House please make Colleen welcome.

Hon. J. Darcy: I’m very pleased to introduce Shayne Williams, the executive director,

and Troy Balderson from the Lookout Society. Lookout is based in my home

community of New Westminster and works with government to provide housing,

health care, supports and services to people across the Lower

Mainland.

This includes supportive housing for 160 people in Surrey that we

opened in 2018. These three new supportive housing buildings were able to

provide people who’d been living on the street, on the 135A strip, with the

homes and the supports that they need. We’re seeing that these supportive

homes are working; 81 percent of the residents are reporting improvements in

their overall well-being.

I look forward to meeting with Lookout and many of the other housing

providers later on today so that we can continue working together in

partnership to build supportive housing for those in our province most in

need.

Please join me in welcoming the folks from Lookout who are here

today.

S. Malcolmson: Today I’m pleased to introduce executive director Violet Hayes and

Oceanside program director Patricia Anderson from Nanaimo’s Island Crisis

Care Society. Violet and Patricia are working hard every day to support

people like Susan, who, after losing her job because of health issues,

became homeless, living in Nanaimo’s tent city.

In Newcastle Place supportive housing, Susan found a new home and a

new sense of hope, a place where she can learn about self-care and look for

a new job. In her own words, Newcastle Place is giving Susan a place to

start fresh. She called it “emerging like a butterfly.” These are some of

the good stories coming out of these places.

On behalf of Susan and all of us, I thank Patricia and Violet and

their whole team at Island Crisis Care Society for their tireless work,

truly on the front lines, both in Nanaimo and in Parksville at the newly

opened Orca Place supportive housing.

Would the House please make them welcome.

Hon. K. Chen: Today I’m really happy to welcome several early childhood educators

visiting the Legislature today. They are members from BCGEU, B.C. Government

Employees Union, and they are here to advocate for an inclusive, affordable,

universal early learning and care system and with an emphasis to talk about

support for the workforce, with the vast majority, about 97 percent, of

early childhood educators being women.

They are here with their president from the BCGEU, Stephanie Smith,

and Andrea Duncan, vice-president. The early childhood educators and staff

from BCGEU are Angela Chiasson, Caroline Kent, Jasna Lugonjic, Jodie Woods,

Tiffany Rumble, Laura Stewart, Susan Halwith, Erin Stodnicker and Danielle

Marchand. One of the early childhood educators actually helped to look after

my son when he was three years old, and I’m very thankful for

that.

With them are also some parent advocates from the Coalition of Child

Care Advocates of B.C. who are going to share many parent stories. Those

include Sharon Gregson; Kate Spence; and Amanda Burnett, who actually

started the wait-list project, ensuring that parents’ voices are being

heard.

I want to thank them for their advocacy and hope they enjoy their

visit to the Legislature sharing their stories, and I would like to ask the

House to please make them feel very welcome.

[10:15 a.m.]

J. Rice: Today in the House, I have two guests, Mae-Jong Bowles and Marty

Bowles. They’re former Rupertites, retired teachers, real community

contributors that we sorely miss in Prince Rupert now that they spend their

lives sailing around, gallivanting around on their sailboat. I want the

House to make them feel very welcome.

M. Dean: Today I have a wonderful guest in the gallery from Victoria. She’s a

mom of two. She’s a lecturer at the University of Victoria. She’s a

researcher associate at UBC. She does a lot of volunteering with

non-profits. She also does advocacy and voluntary service coordination with

the Victoria Sexual Assault Centre. Would everybody please give a warm

welcome to Dr. Grace Lore.

Hon. D. Donaldson: I would ask the Legislature to join me in welcoming Candis Crump,

who’s visiting the precinct today. She’s manager of Goodacre Place

supportive housing in Smithers. It was an amazing ceremony when that opened.

Goodacre Place is named, as many people in the Legislature will know, after

Bill Goodacre, who passed away recently. It couldn’t be a more fitting name

for the building.

Smithers Community Services Association has been a wonderful resource

in the community for decades, and Goodacre Place has been made possible by

their dedication and commitment to serving the people of Smithers. It has

been an amazing facility to house people who have been homeless — to have

the dignity of a roof, a door, a bed, a washroom, a kitchen and supports to

move forward in their lives.

On behalf of the Smithers Community Services Association, I’d like to

ask the members to make Candis welcome.

Hon. S. Simpson: Today in the precinct, we have the executive director Amanda Bains and

Helena McGillivary from the Ksan Society in Terrace. We know that our

northern communities face challenges around housing, around income

inequality, around mental health, and the Ksan Society is an important

partner in helping to support people who are tackling those

issues.

The society operates Sonder House, which opened in June of this year

and provides homes and supports to more than 50 people in the Terrace

community. Supports like meal programs, life and employment skills training

and access to health and wellness services are also included by this very

hard-working society.

We know that having a secure home is the first step in breaking the

cycle of poverty and in giving people an opportunity to move forward. The

Ksan Society is playing an important role in making that happen for people

in Terrace. Please make them welcome.

Hon. S. Robinson: Joining us in the gallery today is ASK Wellness’s chief executive

officer, Bob Hughes, and the chief operations officer, Kim Galloway. It is

absolutely wonderful to see Bob again. I saw him just last week in

Penticton, where we opened up 62 new supportive homes that will be operated

by the incredible team at ASK Wellness.

ASK has been an absolutely wonderful partner. They’ve stepped up to

deliver more than 110 supportive homes that are changing lives in the

Kamloops area. These partnerships absolutely are key. It’s because of the

work of organizations like ASK, the John Howard Society of North Island,

Island Crisis Care Society, Atira, Lookout, Coast Mental Health, Smithers

Community Services Association and Ksan Society — and many, many others —

that together with these partners, we’ve been able to open up more than

2,000 new supportive homes across 22 communities in less than two

years.

I’m very much looking forward to meeting with Mr. Hughes and Ms.

Galloway and all of the other providers who are joining us here in the

gallery today to talk about the difference that these homes are making in

people’s lives and how we’ll continue to work together to deliver the homes

and supports that people need.

I would just ask the House to join us in welcoming all these wonderful

professional service providers.

Statements

(Standing Order 25B)

WORLD MENTAL HEALTH DAY

J. Thornthwaite: Today on World Mental Health Day, we recognize the thousands of

British Columbians coping with mental illness.

[10:20 a.m.]

Together we all play a part to help reduce stigma and support each

other to ensure mental well-being. We should all consider mental health

just as important as physical health and empower Canadians to seek help

when they need it and ensure our workplaces and communities are

supportive and healthy places.

Suicide prevention is this year’s Mental Health Day theme. It’s

the second leading cause of death among 15- to 29-year-olds. It’s

estimated in Canada that 11 people end their lives and 210 more attempt

suicide each and every day. This is tragic and must be recognized and

talked about so that those suffering in silence are encouraged to seek

help. As soon as you start talking to someone, it will get

better.

Anxiety and depression can often lead to many having to fight

daily just to get out of bed or continue on with their day, so we can’t

ignore the early signs. Schools should be playing a crucial role in

identifying and referring children for help. We need to pay closer

attention to our youth, who are struggling from stresses that they

experience at school, at work and within their families. There needs to

be a continuum of care for mental health, from preventative coping

strategies to professional treatment, to overcome traumas such as past

abuse or neglect.

We all play a role in reducing stigma to help youth better cope

and learn resiliency skills and for everyone to support families and

friends who may be going through difficult times. Mental health affects

all of us, so it’s up to all of us to support each other.

INTERNATIONAL DAY FOR

THE ERADICATION OF

POVERTY

M. Elmore: I rise today to recognize October 17 as International Day for the

Eradication of Poverty.

This year’s theme is: “Acting together to empower children, their

families and communities to end poverty.” It also marks the 30th

anniversary of the adoption of the United Nations convention on the

rights of the child, a landmark human rights treaty which sets out the

civil, political, economic, social and cultural rights of every child,

regardless of their race, religion or abilities.

Addressing poverty is a challenging and complex issue. We know

that approximately 40 percent of the people living in poverty in British

Columbia are working poor. They are people who have a paycheque coming

into the house, and they can’t make ends meet. We also know that if you

have a disability, if you’re Indigenous or if you’re a recent immigrant,

you are two times more likely to be living in poverty.

In addition to challenges around affordability, people living in

poverty struggle with social inclusion, the ability to fully participate

in our society and to not face the alienation that comes with the stigma

of poverty. We must do better.

As the Parliamentary Secretary for Poverty Reduction, I am proud

of the work our government is doing to meaningfully address poverty in

British Columbia. Through TogetherBC, we’re working to deal with the

questions of affordability, create opportunity for people to participate

and to be engaged in the economy as well as address the question of

social inclusion.

Our job is just getting started. I look forward to tackling this

challenge with all members in this House to eradicate poverty in British

Columbia.

AGASSIZ SPEEDWAY

L. Throness: It was a hot day last August when I arrived at the Agassiz

Speedway to enjoy a stock car race, not as a spectator but as a driver.

I met my four celebrity rivals. The pit crew gave me a heavy pair of

fireproof coveralls and a tight helmet to wear. I crawled through the

window of a little car to be buckled in with a five-point belt cinched

so tight I could hardly move. Without a breath of air in the cockpit, I

was nearly finished before I had even started.

The Agassiz Speedway is a quarter-mile racing oval located on

Cemetery Road near Agassiz. It has lots of parking, a low entry price,

concession stands and a great deal of noise, smoke and speed, providing

families with high-value entertainment.

The track is built, maintained and operated by the Kent Raceways

Society, founded in 1971. Perhaps the most enduring among the devoted

volunteers is local dairy producer Andy Bodnar, who has served as

president for the past 30 years. He’s joined by executive members

Darrell Porayko, Sean Edwards, Barb ten Bos, Pat Schepanowsky and Tom

Baldwin.

Over the years, the society paved and fenced the dirt track,

installed lighting for night races and built grandstands that seat

1,000. As the only oval track raceway left in the Fraser Valley,

competitors come from near and far.

[10:25 a.m.]

After some practice laps, where I thought I did pretty good, the

race began. I slammed on the gas, determined to take the lead, and went

as fast as I possibly dared without jeopardizing my life. But I

immediately drifted behind the others and held grimly on to last place

for all 11 laps. I guess I’m built for endurance rather than

speed.

During the race, I gained new respect for the daring of the

regular drivers. I felt gratitude for the many volunteers who provide

the region with a place to race, and I had a powerful sense of relief

that I remained alive to drive another day.

Thanks to the Agassiz Speedway for an unforgettable

experience.

WORLD MENTAL HEALTH DAY

B. D’Eith: I’m very honoured today to stand in this House to speak about

World Mental Health Day. This year’s theme is suicide prevention.

According to the World Health Organization, every 40 seconds someone

dies from suicide, and according to the Canadian Mental Health

Association, 90 percent of people who take their own lives are believed

to have substance use problems or mental health issues, such as

depression or anxiety, at the time of their suicide.

That’s why I’m so proud of the work our government is doing, led

by my friend and colleague the Minister of Mental Health and Addictions.

It has been done to improve mental health and addiction systems of care

with a focus on early intervention and prevention for our children and

youth.

A Pathway to Hope is our road map to build a unified network of

mental health and addictions services. Earlier this summer I was

honoured to attend the announcement of B.C.’s first integrated child and

youth team in my riding in Maple Ridge. These teams are critical as part

of the Pathway to Hope and will be implemented in five school districts

over the next two years. The Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows school district

has been leading the way when it comes to addressing mental health

challenges before they reach the boiling point. We’re so proud to be

welcoming these innovative programs to our community.

Now, at the beginning of the school year, we announced almost $9

million in funding to assist all school districts and independent

schools with enhancing their wellness supports and programs. Our goal is

simple — for young people and their families to get the supports they

need, when they need them, at home, at school and in their community,

because we know that while suicide is not reversible, it is preventable.

That’s why today’s awareness on suicide is very important, in regards to

World Mental Health Day.

We need to educate ourselves on the resources available and help

our loved ones so that they can deal with the struggles they may have

with mental challenges, as I’ve found with my family. Resources like the

Foundry coming to Maple Ridge, and already operating in Abbotsford, are

now operating throughout B.C. and helping our youth. On days like today,

we need to come together with our families, communities and across the

province to have the courage to have those conversations about suicide

prevention and mental health.

A. Weaver: Today is World Mental Health Day. There are many individuals and

organizations doing incredible work in this field across our beautiful

province. But today I want to speak about just one that I had the

pleasure of visiting this past summer. Connections Place is a recently

opened Clubhouse International in the greater Victoria area. The

Clubhouse model is an evidence-based model of psychosocial

rehabilitation for people who are struggling with a mental

illness.

Isolation is a major factor in mental illness, and a clubhouse

gives people a reason to wake up in the morning; a place to come to; to

have a purpose; to be welcomed, needed and wanted; to be part of a

community of caring people. I witnessed that firsthand and put behind

those words my experience to say that they are exactly as I read. A

small group of trained staff work alongside members to guide them to

full social inclusion.

Connections Place is not alone in B.C. Their mentor clubhouse,

Pathways in Richmond, has been operating for over 30 years, successfully

and helping the lives of many. It’s been named as one of Canada’s top

ten impact charities. This is clearly a model that works.

One in four people struggle with a mental illness in the greater

Victoria area. That’s about 95,000 people. Almost a quarter of that

number will have a serious and permanent mental illness, almost 25,000

people, which can cut life expectancy by up to 20 years. Families,

employers and emergency services are all impacted.

[10:30 a.m.]

Connections Place opened its doors in March of 2019 and now has

about 100 members, with more coming on board every week. I welcome the

addition of Connections Place to our community. This was Jackie Powell’s

vision when I first met her in 2014. I’m absolutely thrilled to see her

vision become a reality today.

ACTION ON HOMELESSNESS

R. Leonard: Next week, October 13 to 19, has been proclaimed by the province

as Homelessness Action Week. Since 2006, communities throughout B.C.

have taken action during this week to help create awareness of the

challenges of homelessness and to work to find local solutions. Last

year our government partnered with communities throughout B.C. to

conduct the first provincewide homeless count and identified over 7,500

people, individuals who need help finding stable housing.

Through TogetherBC, our province is moving to a more proactive and

coordinated response to homelessness. The new office of homelessness

coordination is basing government’s approach on four fundamental

pillars: prevention, immediate response, stability and working better

together.

In the Comox Valley [audio interrupted]. Cupelli, the coalition

coordinator, says the group works as a collective to plan, coordinate,

recommend, advocate and implement a whole-community response to reducing

homelessness and increasing affordable housing. Since 2015, the group

has seen 131 units of affordable housing built in our

community.

I am pleased to welcome members of the rapid response team from

across B.C. to the Legislature today. Their work within the rapid

response to homelessness program is helping to build over 2,000

supportive modular homes across the province. It’s helping people living

on the streets and those in shelters move into new housing.

As part of effective action to reduce homelessness and promote

social inclusion, government needs to work with individuals, non-profit

organizations, community groups and private sector representatives to

find solutions. Together we can bring down barriers that hold people

back and deliver supports that lift people up, making our communities

better and more inclusive for everyone.

Mr. Speaker: Member for Courtenay-Comox, we had a technical glitch there. Would

you prefer to give your talk over again? You are certainly welcome to do

that.

R. Leonard: Oh, okay. Thank you, hon. Speaker. Maybe second time

better?

Next week, October 13 to 19, has been proclaimed by the province

as Homelessness Action Week. Since 2006, communities throughout B.C.

have taken action during this week to help increase awareness of the

challenges of homelessness and worked to find local solutions. Last year

our government partnered with communities throughout B.C. to conduct the

first provincewide homeless count and identified over 7,500 individuals

who need help finding stable housing.

Through TogetherBC, our province is moving to a more proactive and

coordinated response to homelessness. The new office of homelessness

coordination is basing government’s approach on four fundamental

pillars: prevention, immediate response, stability and working better

together.

In the Comox Valley, 24 agencies have banded together to serve the

most vulnerable populations through the Comox Valley Coalition to End

Homelessness. Andrea Cupelli, the coalition coordinator, says the group

works as a collective to plan, coordinate, recommend, advocate and

implement a whole-community response to reducing homelessness and

increasing affordable housing. Since 2015, the group has seen 131 units

of affordable housing built in our community.

I am pleased to welcome members of the rapid response team from

across B.C. to the Legislature today. Their work within the rapid

response to homelessness program is helping to build well over 2,000

supportive modular homes across the province and is helping people

living on the streets and those in shelters move into new

housing.

[10:35 a.m.]

As part of effective action to reduce homelessness and promote

social inclusion, government needs to work with individuals, non-profit

organizations, community groups and private sector representatives to

find solutions. Together we can bring down barriers that hold people

back and deliver supports that lift people up, making our communities

better and more inclusive for everyone.

Thank you very much for allowing me to speak a second

time.

Oral Questions

PREMIER’S OFFICE RECORDS AND

FREEDOM-OF-INFORMATION

REQUESTS

M. Polak: As the result of a freedom-of-information request, we are in

possession of an email thread between staff members in the Premier’s

office — Ms. Oreck and Ms. Wong. It begins like this. Ms. Oreck writes

to Ms. Wong and says: “I’m hoping at some point soon you can gather all

the notes from Geoff’s call yesterday. It is really important we have

them all recorded for future reference.” Ms. Wong then responds to Ms.

Oreck. “I have Geoff’s notes. Just need to type them up and will send

them to you later today.”

As you would expect, the opposition followed up with a

freedom-of-information request seeking the notes that were going to be

typed up and that Ms. Wong was going to send along. Unfortunately,

rather than the notes being provided, we received a letter that told us

they could not provide the notes. Why? “They were deleted.” I’m quoting

here. “Your file is now closed.”

Will the Premier insist that his chief of staff produce the

requested notes?

Hon. J. Horgan: I would be happy to assist the Opposition House Leader in her

attempts to get information if I knew more than the names of the people,

maybe some dates and some times. I’m sure you may want to take up

question period doing that, or you can talk to me off line after

question period.

Mr. Speaker: The House Leader for the official opposition on a

supplemental.

M. Polak: So you will have noticed, I’m sure, in my quotation from the email

thread that in the response that is provided by Ms. Wong, she says not

only that she’s going to type up notes, but she says very clearly: “I

have Geoff’s notes.”

When we were not successful in receiving the notes that Ms. Wong

typed up, we asked for the originals. They exist. We know that from the

email exchange. They exist. Interestingly enough, the response on that

one was: “No records were located in response to your request. Your file

is now closed.”

We know that these notes were important, because it actually says

so in the conversation between the staffers: “It is really important we

have them all recorded for future records.”

Will the Premier, on principle, commit that he will get to the

bottom of how these types of requests are refused, and why on earth

things that are really important to have recorded for future reference

would be destroyed or lost somewhere in his office?

Hon. J. Horgan: Again, I apologize if I wasn’t clearer with the member when I said

I’d be happy to look into it if I had more than two names, one of which

is an individual that hasn’t worked in our office for over a year and a

half. Maybe some specificity. Maybe some dates. Maybe some times.

Whatever the member wants to do. I have committed, and I commit again to

help her get to the bottom of this.

I mean, we do a lot of investigating around here, apparently. I’ll

investigate it, most assuredly.

M. de Jong: Well, I’ll give the Premier…. Because he might not believe the

nature of the questions that my colleague was asking, I’ll send a copy

of the document over.

[10:40 a.m.]

It’s very apparent. “I have Geoff’s notes,” it says. They’re

really important notes. We ask for the notes. British Columbians want to

know the really important work that government is doing. And there are

apparently no notes. The dog ate them. They fell into the washing

machine — or, more likely, the shredding machine.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members, the member for Abbotsford West has the floor.

Thank you.

M. de Jong: Does the Premier accept the basic proposition that the rules

governing the retention of documents apply to him, his office and his

chief of staff, and apparently, since his chief of staff doesn’t believe

that those rules apply to him, will he replace Mr. Meggs with someone

who does accept that policy?

Hon. J. Horgan: Coming from a member who ripped a page out of a document about

ICBC to cover up the train wreck that was happening there, from a member

who didn’t know where the on switch was on his computer for his entire

time as Attorney General, from a member who denied that money laundering

existed in British Columbia…. To not accept “Yes, I’ll look into it” as

an answer is a mystery to me.

Mr. Speaker: The member for Abbotsford West on a supplemental.

M. de Jong: What the Premier wants to ignore — and is going, apparently, to

great pains to deflect attention from — is the recurring trend that is

occurring in his office, by his chief of staff, to break the rules. The

Premier has got the document now. He has got the dates. We’re looking

for an explanation from the Premier as to why, in a situation where his

staff identifies the existence of documents — where his staff says

they’re really important documents — when we ask for the documents, none

exist.

Why is that; and why does his chief of staff persist in conducting

business in a way that breaks the law, breaks the rules; and will he

replace Mr. Meggs as his chief of staff and abide by the

rules?

Hon. J. Horgan: I’m grateful that the member has handed me the document from

December 12, 2017. I must confess to all members of the House that I

don’t have at the tip of my tongue, at the tip of my fingers,

information that’s almost two years old. But as I said to the first

questioner, I’ll get back to it.

While I’m on my feet, since there seems to be a desire to

continually smear anyone who stands up, anyone who works for the people

of British Columbia and who isn’t a member of the B.C. Liberal Party,

I’ll read a couple of quotes, because that’s always edifying for the

members here and those who are watching at home.

“Stop these witch hunts. Stop the amateur detective work. This is

getting ridiculous. We have to stop this behaviour. We’re seeing a witch

hunt.” Hon. Speaker, this is not the Twitter feed for Donald Trump. It’s

out of the mouth of the member opposite, the Leader of the Official

Opposition.

How can we be conducting a witch hunt one day and blocking

evidence in a crucial investigation the next, when it’s the same thing?

I don’t know how that happens, but the gymnastics on the other side,

with a 16-year track record of triple deleting, of hiding documents…. To

not accept the answer of “I’m happy to look into it” is beyond the pale.

I’m happy to look into it.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

LOGGING PRACTICES AND

PROTECTION OF OLD-GROWTH

FORESTS

A. Olsen: The British Columbia forestry industry has been collapsing for

decades because successive governments have been overharvesting trees.

People in remote, rural and urban British Columbia are voicing their

concern. People within government are expressing their

dismay.

British Columbians are concerned that changes made by the previous

government in handing over the public interest to foreign interests are

hurting them. This government continues to rapaciously log old-growth

ecosystems on Vancouver Island, and it appears that they’re doing so in

a way that doesn’t even comply with their own rules.

[10:45 a.m.]

Let’s look at the Nahmint valley in Port Alberni. Earlier this

year the photos of majestic tree stumps went viral. The vast clearcuts

were once rich habitat, home to endangered species. Two separate

investigations appear to have found that B.C. Timber Sales are

auctioning off cutblocks that are violating their own rules. The

compliance and enforcement officer from the Forests Ministry in one

investigation recommended that the logging of the valley be halted and

that future harvesting be put on hold. Yet the logging of this pristine

valley continues, with no end in sight.

My question is to the Minister of Forests. Why is the government

ignoring the recommendation of this investigation, continuing to log

irreplaceable old-growth ecosystems in the Nahmint valley?

Hon. D. Donaldson: Well, I thank the member for his thoughtful question. We, as the

government, understand the importance of old-growth forests to

supporting biodiversity in the forest ecosystems. We are blessed in B.C.

to still have options on the management of old growth.

He refers to the Nahmint valley, and it was designated a special

management zone in 2000 under the Vancouver Island land use plan. The

values that underlie this special management zone include wildlife,

biodiversity and recreation. Staff in my ministry are currently working

as part of a working group that includes First Nations and staff from

B.C. Timber Sales to legalize old-growth management areas, OGMAs, in the

Nahmint valley. This involves using new and up-to-date information and

incorporating other important values, including legacy trees and large

cultural trees, to provide additional protection.

We take the member’s concerns seriously. We are not ignoring this

issue or this topic. From what I understand, B.C.’s independent

watchdog, the Forest Practices Board, is investigating the Ancient

Forest Alliance’s complaint, and the Forest Practices Board

investigation will be made public.

Mr. Speaker: The member for Saanich North and the Islands on a

supplemental.

A. Olsen: Indeed, we do have options — until, of course, we log all the old

growth. Then those options are gone. I thank the minister for the

response.

I think the problem is that B.C. Timber Sales and the ministry’s

enforcement officers are too closely entwined. They work side by side.

They report to the same people. It appears to the public, whose

interests we are in this place to protect and whom B.C. Timber Sales

works on behalf of, that we have serious compliance and enforcement

issues.

It appears we have a serious conflict of interest in the

administration of the public interest. This is highlighted by the fact

that the compliance officer responsible for the investigation that I

mentioned earlier says he was told at one point to “close down the

investigation, not write a report and just send an internal memo.” That

is a worrying statement. B.C. Timber Sales appears to be ignoring

internal government recommendations, violating the Vancouver Island land

use plan and may have been allowing overcutting of old growth for the

past 18 years.

My question is to the Minister of Forests. There is a growing lack

of certainty on whose interest B.C. Timber Sales is representing. Who is

holding B.C. Timber Sales accountable for their actions?

Hon. D. Donaldson: Well, B.C. Timber Sales is held to the same standard as private

companies, and they’re accountable to the public. They submit forest

stewardship plans. Those forest stewardship plans now, under our new

legislation that we passed in May under the Forest and Range Practices

Act, are much more transparent than they were before. They allow a

forest operations map to be made public, and transparency is there for

people to be able to see where cutblocks and roads, for instance, are

planned.

The compliance and enforcement branch has the authority to

investigate B.C. Timber Sales. They are a compliance branch, so they

monitor and ensure compliance with certain natural resource legislation,

including compliance with forest stewardship plans. When necessary and

appropriate, they take enforcement actions. That’s the oversight with

the BCTS, the same as it would be for any forest licensee.

However, we understand that there are people who are interested in

and concerned about harvesting practices on the timber-harvesting land

base. That’s why we introduced a legacy tree policy in June, where

there’s the ability to register large trees, and each of these trees is

protected by a one-hectare buffer. That’s 100 metres by 100

metres.

[10:50 a.m.]

We’ve also convened an old-growth strategic review panel,

consisting of Garry Merkel and Al Gorley, who will be travelling the

province to gather information and report back to me in the new year for

recommendations around old-growth strategic policy.

FOREST INDUSTRY AND GOVERNMENT

SUPPORT FOR

COMMUNITIES

A. Wilkinson: Two weeks ago 250 logging trucks appeared in downtown Vancouver to

make it very loud and clear that the forest industry in British Columbia

is in a very deep crisis. There have been 89 mill closures, curtailments

or permanent shutdowns since January 1; 3,000 workers have been off work

without a single paycheque since July 1 on Vancouver Island. The

response from this government has amounted to absolutely

nothing.

The only step that’s been taken has been to plunder one fund

intended for rural communities for $25 million and to provide some of

that funding to these people who are having their lives torn apart. But

it turns out there’s no application process. There’s no eligibility

criteria. There’s nothing available to these communities.

Those truckers drove back to their homes in Quesnel and Merritt

and Port McNeill and Chetwynd with nothing, and they now have nothing to

look forward to. This promises to be the darkest Christmas in living

memory in those communities. The car dealerships have no business. The

restaurants and cafés are drying up because people have no disposable

income. Yet the response from this government has amounted to virtually

nothing.

The question goes to the Premier. When will the Premier recognize

this nightmare that’s unfolding in rural British Columbia, as they look

forward to the worst Christmas of their entire lives?

Hon. J. Horgan: I thank the member for his question. I think the record will show

that the Green Party was the first party to ask a question about

forestry in this Legislature. But that goes without saying, I

believe.

In this instance, I appreciate the Leader of the Opposition’s

sincerity, and I know members on all sides of the House are very much

concerned about the downturn in the forest sector. Over the past number

of years, over 30,000 jobs have been lost in the sector.

There is a transformation happening on the land base in British

Columbia. We’re taking steps to address that with respect to

reconciliation with Indigenous peoples. We’ve put in place an emergency

fund of $69 million to work directly with those that are affected. We’ve

been assuring, as best we can….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members, the Premier has the floor.

Hon. J. Horgan: Now, I appreciate that they waited till the end of the week to ask

a question, and now they just yell when you want to give an answer.

That’s the respect that we get from the people on the other side of the

House.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members, please be more respectful. The Premier had the

floor.

The Leader of the Official Opposition on a

supplemental.

A. Wilkinson: All of us know that we’ve had the lightest forest fire season in

living memory. Roughly $300 million that otherwise would have been spent

on forest fire suppression was not spent. It’s left in contingency

funds. Yet when these rural communities turn to the province of British

Columbia and say, “What happened to all that money available for forest

fire suppression?” they don’t get an answer. They get told: “Oh, we’re

trying to come up with some money to provide for transition and

compensation, so we’re going to take it out of the rural development

fund to the tune of $25 million.”

The best example of the consequence of that is that the daycare

program planned for Williams Lake, for 63 seats of daycare, has now

collapsed. Those parents who were going to rely on that daycare out of

the rural dividend fund can’t go and seek work because they’re at home

taking care of the kids, while their spouse is unemployed and facing the

bank coming to the door and the auctioneers selling off their

assets.

This removal of funds from the rural dividend fund was not just

deceitful; it was a humiliation to those rural communities.

[10:55 a.m.]

This is a very simple question. With the $300 million left on the

table from the forest fire season being unexpectedly light, will the

Premier stand up and reinstate the $25 million in the rural development

fund? I’m glad to see he’s finally turned to his Finance Minister to ask

the question, because apparently he hasn’t done before.

Hon. J. Horgan: I again surprisingly, thank the member for his question and the

sincerity with which he delivers it.

We are extremely concerned on this side of the House, as all

British Columbians are, at a dramatic downturn in markets, a dramatic

downturn in ability to access fibre and the challenges, quite frankly,

that were ignored for 16 years by the people on the other side of the

floor.

We are putting in place $69 million to go directly into the hands

of forest workers and forest-dependent communities to ensure that they

do get through this transition in the economy. We’re promoting

cross-laminated timber and mass timber construction to create new

markets for wood products. We continue to try, to the best of our

ability, to work with communities, to work with workers, to work with

Indigenous peoples and to work with companies to set tables to establish

a way forward for the industry.

It’s all well and good for the people who oversaw the loss of

30,000 jobs, the closure of 200 schools in rural communities, to somehow

profess that they care about rural B.C.

We’re building hospitals in Williams Lake, in Dawson Creek, in

Terrace, right across the north — $100 million in a northern development

fund so that we can build infrastructure to create confidence in

communities.

For the people on the other side to somehow profess…. After a week

of question periods where they focused on smearing people, to now say

they care about forestry is laughable. For 15 years, they knew there was

a downturn. The beetle wood is gone. We have challenges in markets. We

have challenges right across the board. The way to solve those is to

work together, not to throw out invective and rhetoric.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Okay. If we may get back to question period here.

J. Rustad: Some help program for the forest workers when forest workers at

Williams Lake have to hold a fundraiser so that they can raise money for

families to buy food. That’s shameful, Premier. That is shameful on this

government.

And 103 curtailment announcements or shutdowns, including

permanent closures. More than 6,000 forest workers have been impacted

and thousands more on top of thatl 3,000 workers on the Island on

strike, impacting thousands more. A minister who denies there’s a

crisis, an assistant who says there are too many mills and a Premier who

says to communities that they’re acting like spoiled kids — quite

frankly, an assistance plan that is providing no help for the

industry.

Premier, you’ve already fired one minister. What will it take? How

much worse does a minister have to be before you replace them and put

somebody in place who can bring some actual help to the forest workers

of this province?

Hon. D. Donaldson: I think we deserve a little context here, for the record. Forestry

workers are facing extreme challenges. Forest communities are facing

extremely difficult situations in the Interior.

[11:00 a.m.]

To show the priority, to make the priority apparent of this

opposition, there were 41 questions over three days. This is the first

time that we’ve actually got to a forestry-related question. I can’t

think of a better demonstration of how unimportant they think forestry

is in this province.

Unlike the opposition, instead of making statements, we actually

have taken action. We’ve taken action to clean up the mess that they

left in the coastal forest sector. We’ve taken action to clean up the

mess that they’ve left in the Interior forest sector. We’ve taken action

to support workers in communities.

The Leader of the Opposition calls a $69 million support program

“virtually nothing.” I would say he should get in touch with the mayor

of Mackenzie and the mayor of Fort St. James, who are appreciative of

this forest support program. I’ll quote from Mayor Joan Atkinson of

Mackenzie.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. D. Donaldson: “I recognize that the government recognizes communities that are

really challenged with these forestry curtailments, and I’m so grateful

that my community will receive some of this funding.”

Mr. Speaker: The member for Nechako Lakes on a supplemental.

J. Rustad: As the minister stands up, he’s laughing and smiling, while forest

workers and families are hurting. That is disgraceful. That is

disgraceful, Minister. And what’s worse…?

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members, the member for Nechako Lakes has the floor,

please.

J. Rustad: Taking the money from the rural dividend fund to put into this

package…. The mayor of Fort St. James and the mayor of Mackenzie are

afraid to say anything because they don’t want to be persecuted by the

most vengeful government in history.

We put forward a five-point plan that we wrote to the minister in

June. That plan laid out how we can support workers, how we can support

the industry and try to get the industry back on its feet. But what does

the minister do, and what does this government do? It simply dithers,

and workers are paying the price.

It’s painfully clear that there is no plan from this government,

no plan to support workers and families and communities.

Minister, quite frankly, will you do the right thing and step down

and let somebody step into that seat that can actually help the workers

and families in this province?

Hon. D. Donaldson: Well, that’s great. The opposition puts forward a five-point plan

in June. Where was your plan from two years ago, from 2015, when you

knew that the crisis was going to hit the Interior forest sector with

the end of the beetle wood? You did nothing to prepare communities. You

did nothing to prepare workers. That was on your watch.

You’ve got four former Forests ministers over there — well, 3.1;

the current critic was in for two weeks. You’ve got four former Forests

ministers, no plan to help the Interior when you knew that this was

going to happen in the Interior with the falldown of the beetle

wood.

We’ve taken action. We’ve put a $69 million support program in

place for workers and communities. We’re addressing the mismanagement of

the forests by the previous government in the Interior and on the coast.

We’ve increased marketing efforts and allowed 12-storey buildings to be

built out of wood to reinforce our engineered wood sector. We’ve

undertaken training for the new harvesting production and management

techniques that will be required into the future. That’s because we

understand how important rural communities and the forest economy are to

the B.C. sector.

[11:05 a.m.]

RESPONSE TO CRIMINAL CHARGES

AGAINST PORT MOODY

MAYOR

T. Stone: The mayor of Port Moody is facing very serious criminal charges

related to sexual assault. Earlier this week Port Moody council voted in

favour of asking the mayor to go back onto unpaid leave while he deals

with these criminal charges. However, despite the majority of council

wanting the mayor to step aside, he has declined to do so.

Astonishingly, the member for Port Moody–Coquitlam, who also

happens to be one of the mayor’s best friends and close NDP allies, has

made it very, very clear that he doesn’t really have an opinion on this

matter of whether the mayor should step aside.

Now, we also know that members opposite, over the years, have

never, never shied away from making profound statements about sexual

assault. Yet when it really matters to make one’s voice heard that

sexual assault must never be tolerated, ever, when there is an actual

issue of criminal charges of sexual assault against a locally elected

official who, again, happens to be a friend and ally of the NDP member

for Port Moody–Coquitlam, the member himself, members opposite and the

minister have had nothing to say and certainly nothing profound to say

about this matter.

My question to the Minister of Municipal Affairs is this. Does she

support Port Moody council’s decision calling for the mayor to step

aside while dealing with his criminal sexual assault charges, or is she

going to protect the member for Port Moody–Coquitlam from being

embarrassed by the alleged actions of his good friend and

ally?

Hon. S. Robinson: Well, I think it’s rather unfortunate that the member opposite,

rather than understanding the seriousness of this and recognizing the

principle that, the last time I checked, people in this country are

innocent until proven guilty, which I think is an important element.

Although I look at the neighbour suggesting maybe different….

I also appreciate how difficult this has been for the residents of

Port Moody. It’s tearing this community apart. I would hope that the

mayor would listen to his community and do the right thing.

[End of question period.]

Tabling Documents

Mr. Speaker: Hon. Members, I have the honour to present the following

reports.

Report of the Chief Electoral Officer on the 2018 General Local

Elections, October 20, 2018 , from Elections B.C.

Secondly, Investigation Report 19-05, Investigation Report

19-04 and Reconsideration Report 19-04 from the Office of

the Registrar of Lobbyists for B.C.

Motions Without Notice

MEMBERSHIP CHANGES TO COMMITTEES

Hon. M. Farnworth: By leave, I move:

[That Stephanie Cadieux , MLA be appointed as a Member of

the Special Committee to Appoint a Merit Commissioner, replacing

Tracy Redies , MLA; and that

Adam Olsen , MLA be removed as a Member of the Special Committee to

Review the Police Complaint Process.]

Leave granted.

Motion approved.

[11:10 a.m.]

Orders of the Day

Hon. M. Farnworth: I call continued second reading debate on Bill 36, Gaming Control

Amendment Act.

[J. Isaacs in the chair.]

Second Reading of Bills

BILL 36 — GAMING CONTROL

AMENDMENT

ACT, 2019

(continued)

R. Coleman: I’m pleased to continue my debate from yesterday, although it was

quite shortened. I’d like to talk about Bill 36 in a number of ways

today — first of all, about how I think its implementation, in my

opinion, is wrong. I want to explain why that is, as we go

forward.

I want to make it clear from the very beginning of my remarks that

I absolutely support the intent of this bill to send 7 percent of money

to First Nations in British Columbia, to have them use that money within

their communities. For me, it’s how we go about doing that that is

important to me.

I have had the opportunity, in the last number of years, to

negotiate government-to-government revenue-sharing arrangements with

some of the smallest First Nations in the smallest communities in

British Columbia. While in those communities, I’ve observed some of the

things that few people outside of northern British Columbia and other

areas of B.C. have seen or understand, other than maybe a small snippet,

with regard to conditions for First Nations they might see on a newscast

somewhere.

I’ve been in communities where there are three, four or five

families living in a single house, where they’re doing that because the

amount of money provided to the First Nations to build a house in a

remote community isn’t enough to build a house — what they get from

Indian and Northern Affairs Canada. I’ve sat and listened to what their

difficulty is with the process to actually get funding, to be able to go

through a very administrative process at the federal level, to try to

get money for the most basic, basic programs that would be important to

those communities.

As I read the bill the other day and as I went through it, I

thought: “Well, the best part about this is the 7 percent.” I wonder at

what the First Nations that I’ve dealt with — whose communities I’ve

flown into on a grass strip on the Chilcotin, or whose communities I’ve

driven out for 30, 40 minutes on a gravel road, or longer, to get into,

to have a visit with them — on revenue-sharing and opportunities on

revenue-sharing for their community, with regard to natural resources in

B.C.

I’ve sat in the room with the Carrier-Sekani Tribal Council when

they finally came to a pipeline benefit agreement that I negotiated with

them and their representatives and their Chiefs. I’ve seen the tears of

joy and happiness that they were allowed to move down the road, where

there would be revenue-sharing coming to them, which they could

implement into programs in their First Nations communities without

conditions, without somebody telling them how to manage the money, but

having trust in them to do what is right for their communities. It’s

because they know their communities better than anybody else.

So as I read the bill, I thought: “Oh no. Here we go.” We’re now

going to control the distribution of the money on a number of conditions

and aspects for these folks in these communities.

[11:15 a.m.]

Now, I understand the intent, but you know what? I don’t think

there’s a First Nations leader in B.C. that wouldn’t tell you that

they’d like to have money for health and wellness; infrastructure,

safety, transportation and housing; economic and business development;

education, language, culture and training; community development and

environmental protection; and capacity-building, fiscal management and

governance. Those are the categories that these folks have to stay

within if they want this money from the provincial government of about

$190 million over two years, and going on for 25, which, by the way, is

also a good move.

What I did when I saw the bill was take the opportunity to phone

some of the Chiefs of these remote communities, and some of the Chiefs

that are on the Lower Mainland of British Columbia as well, that I know.

I managed to get through to five of them. One in particular was not so

easy, because there is no actual easy telephone communication to his

remote village. I happened to catch him while he was in a more major

centre where he could take my call.

It struck me, as I had the conversation with a couple of them,

that somewhere along the way, we’ve decided again that another entity,

like the First Nations Leadership Council, should be the entity where we

send the money to, to decide and determine, maybe by application —

although 50 percent of this is supposed to go directly to communities —

that we should somehow control, once again, the self-determination of a

First Nation community.

I had the conversations with a couple of Chiefs. The one that

struck me the most was one from a remote First Nations community, who,

quite frankly, doesn’t want to get offside with the folks in the

leadership council and otherwise but wanted to give me his opinion, in

confidence. I said I would bring up the story in the House. He said:

“Fine.”

As we went through this conversation, he said to me: “You’ve done

a lot of…. You understand investments and things. You understand

housing. What would the equivalent of $450,000 a year for 25 years do

for my community?” That is about what their portion would be out of the

203 First Nations in B.C. “What could it do if I could lever that in a

relationship with someone like B.C. Housing and the interest rates that

they could get for housing in my community?”

I did the math. It’s the equivalent of about $10 million in

housing, $10 million in this particular community, because you’d be

leveraging against the future revenue that would allow you to amortize

and do things, and the calculations would also include some rent from

the people that were living in the housing. It could virtually, in this

person’s mind, satisfy and solve the significant, shoddy, poor

conditions that his people live in.

Now, at 50 percent, he would only have half of that, because the

other 50 percent of the money has to go 40 percent through a process and

10 percent to more remote communities, which I think they would be

qualified for. I think the piece of it that I thought was the most

disturbing was this. “I think we know what we could spend that money

on,” he said to me, “and I don’t think anybody needs to tell us. So you

can provide us with the revenue stream. Let us figure it out. Let us

come up with a way to do things better in our community.”

After that conversation, I reminded myself of the Select Standing

Committee on Finance, which I sat on in June. There were two particular

stories I recalled that came through from First Nations. I decided I

wanted to bring them up to let this House know, just to have an

understanding about how much people in a remote First Nations community

care about themselves, their families and their community but also about

the people that live around them.

The first one that came to me was a report that was actually a

presentation made to the select standing committee in Quesnel, from

Robert Cosma. He’s the emergency response management safety coordinator

for the Nazko First Nation. He had a very short presentation. It said

this:

“In 2017, the community of Trout Lake was evacuated due to the

wildfires within the community of Nazko First Nation. We were evacuated

for 14 weeks, as well as the entire Nazko Valley community.

[11:20 a.m.]

“In 2018, Trout Lake was evacuated again for six weeks due to floods

that took out part of the reserve. Also in 2018, Trout Lake was

evacuated for another four weeks due to wildfires that came within two

kilometres of the homes. That was ten weeks in total in 2018.

“For the last two years, we’ve been evacuated for 24 weeks. My

92-year-old grandmother and my 86-year-old grandmother had to spend all

of this time in the city of Quesnel, in a motel, eating only in one

restaurant. They were then placed on the second floor of the motel, and

by the second week, they didn’t even want to leave their room and no

longer had the desire to eat.

“They’re farmers. They’re used to being active and on the go all the

time, and being removed from their routine and not knowing if they could

go home, to go back to, was more stress than any Elder should ever have

to go through.

“The reason I am here is this. We would like to be able to protect

our communities that currently have no protection whatsoever. We have 53

people trained. With $100 and $185, we have eight First Nations members

trained with level 3 wildfire initial attack. We have five first

responders, five members in the process of ESS training and two members

with FireSmart training.

“We need this equipment” — what he was asking for, some capital, a

small amount — “to be self-sustainable, to be able to protect our

communities within Nazko First Nation and the community of Nazko

itself.”

They’re asking for two trailers equipped with firefighting

equipment, as they are 1½ hours from Quesnel and absolutely no fire

protection in between. Now, I was not able to get hold of this gentleman

for today, but I think if he knew that there was money coming…. I

actually wrote the minister responsible after the hearing and said:

“Could you find this, either through emergency preparedness or the

Solicitor General, whatever?” I’ve had no response.

These guys don’t want to just help protect their community; they

want to protect their neighbours too. What process do they have to go

through, and how long before they could actually solve the problem with

money that’s coming from gaming that was sent to them directly tomorrow?

They can make the decision and solve this problem.

I know that members on both sides of the table during these

hearings were struck by this story. It wasn’t anybody that tried to say:

“You shouldn’t be thinking about this.” It was amazing that somebody had

a solution, a small amount of money, but couldn’t get it from anywhere.

If they had that discretionary money today, they’d have those trailers.

At the fire season next year, they’d be ready. They weren’t ready this

year simply because they couldn’t get an answer.

The other one that struck me…. When I was talking to one of the

First Nations Elders, or Chiefs, here in the last few days, they said:

“Really, we need something for our kids. If we had the money, there were

things we would do. We’ve had two suicides in the last two weeks. Give

us the resources, and let us help to figure this out. But let’s not just

send us through another process.”

This struck me about another presentation we had during the Select

Standing Committee on Finance, a group that members of the committee

were also quite intrigued by. It was a First Nations group that came and

told us about Right to Play — to protect, educate and empower youth. In

their presentation, they said Indigenous youth face a wide range of

barriers to success — i.e., lower rates of high school graduation.

Suicide is a leading cause, among First Nations youth ages 15 to 24 in

Canada…. This is a statistic that nobody, no matter how long they’ve

been here, even before us, should ever be satisfied with. They face

disproportionate mental health challenges, including disproportionately

high rates of reporting bullying and feeling unsafe in

school.

Their recommendation was to support the Indigenous youth — the

PLAY program. It’s a partnership where an Indigenous community and urban

organization apply to Right to Play for support for co-developing play-

and art-based wellness and leadership programs for children and youth

that are community-driven, tailored to the specific needs of young

people and are accessible, inclusive and free for all

participants.

[11:25 a.m.]

Their statistical success is pretty remarkable — the number of

young people they’ve reached and the number of young people they would

like to reach. They think that they could be in 25 First Nations

communities in B.C. each year if they had $3 million of funding from

2020 through 2023.

How do they break that out? How do they get there? If it was 23

communities that wanted Right to Play, they need to know where they can

get the dollars. They have communities that want to do this, that are

prepared to be part of the 23 communities, over the next two years, to

help thousands and thousands of First Nations children and young people.

Their only thing to do was to come to this committee and ask us to make

a recommendation with regards to it to the Ministry of Finance, within

the budget for next year.

I was really struck by a number of things in that presentation.

First of all was the love, compassion and care for their fellow youth

that I saw from the youth that were actually supporting this program in

their communities and were asking for it to be able to grow.

Just a couple of statistics. Since September 2018, over 1,200 B.C.

Indigenous youth were reached through PLAY. Since 2017, 40 youth workers

were employed in their communities to lead the PLAY program and

subsequently got the training so they could be youth leaders in those

communities, and 1,942 community members across B.C. were engaged

through the program in 2017-2018. Eighty-five percent of the youth

participants in B.C. are more confident in themselves since joining the

PLAY program, 74 percent of the youths learned ways to cope with

difficult situations and feelings, and 75 percent of the youths learned

what skills are needed to be positive leaders in their

communities.

When I read the bill and when I went back and read about Right to

Play, I thought: “Why can’t we just take the dollars, without an

administration or an application program of any kind? Divide it up, send

it to the First Nations, and let them decide. Let their leadership

decide what’s best for their community. Let them take the money and work

with it.”

Each one of the five leaders, the Chiefs, that I spoke to told me

that they were not consulted or asked whatsoever about how this was

going to be set up. To me, somebody missed the boat here. It’s not just

the leadership council that actually speaks for First Nations. As a

matter of fact, in the meetings that I’ve been in, in remote communities

and non-remote communities, when I was negotiating direct

government-to-government benefits, most of the meetings started out with

the fact: “We speak for our communities, and these other organizations

don’t.” They wanted to make that clear from the beginning.

I look back at the passion of some of the leaders I sat with, two

of whom are unfortunately no longer with us, and I saw how much and how

important to them it was to get training and opportunity for their

youths from economic development, to get funding into their communities

so that they could deal with some of these issues, particularly around

suicide rates and things with youth.

One particular leader, whom I was very fond of, was very

passionate, not just about graduating kids from his schools but also

seeing them get to post-secondary and supporting them to get there,

because he thought how important it would be to the leadership of his

community in the future to have that example and also those with that

education come back and give.

The challenge, for me, with the bill is not that money should go

to First Nations. I absolutely agree with it. It’s the methodology that

is outlined in the bill. I know we’ll get into that portion during the

committee stage of the debate here. What I want to be clear is that I

support money going to First Nations. I wish they could have done it

simply and got it into their hands today, for the things that they need

to deal with and address today.

I could easily show a First Nation how to leverage that money into

housing, on or off reserve, for them to have a long-term impact on the

people that they think are suffering from that. I could easily show

people how, if you want to leverage that, you might be able to fix your

water system or whatever.

If you’re waiting for the commitment, and you know it’s a two-year

commitment that could go to 25…. That’s one thing. It should go to 25 —

period. If you have that long-term funding, make it available so that

the determination of how that money is invested for those communities is

made for the leadership of First Nations in those

communities.

[11:30 a.m.]

You will never sit in a place where a group of people are more

passionate about their children and their future than when you sit down

with a group of Indigenous communities, whether small or large, in

British Columbia. Their love of their people is remarkable, and their

commitment is sustainable in ways none of us could ever

imagine.

I don’t think that this House — and we’ll deal with it in

committee stage — should just say: “This is how we’re going to do this

with these funds.” I think we should give them the money, and we should

let them make the decisions themselves, because I actually believe

they’ll do the right thing.

I actually believe each one of them has…. Some of them have things

that are important to them outside of some of the things they’re told

they have to put this money into. It’s putting into a box where the

funds are allowed to be spent. I don’t like that.

I don’t like that, because I’ve seen the communities that have had

the ability to take those revenue shares and put them to work, to invest

them and create jobs and training for their people, and how successful

they can be. We should also remember something else. Just like in our

own communities in British Columbia, in the Indigenous communities and

First Nations communities of B.C., there are haves, and there are

have-nots.

There are those who happen to have land on reserve and who are

close to economic development and opportunities and others that are

close to the large population bases where they’ve been able to leverage

opportunities.

There are small communities that have more significant social

things they need to address and want to address and that have a whole

different aspect and thought about how they can do their community,

compared to those that maybe have or have not, not unlike

forest-dependent communities that are hurting today versus those that

are being successful, let’s say in the Lower Mainland, with an influx of

population. Their economics are different. We should always remember

that.

If we remember that, we should know that the best people to make

the decision for the people in their community are the people in the

community. In my opinion, this bill needs to be looked at, as we come

through debate, from the standpoint of: let’s put our trust in the

leadership of First Nations and Indigenous communities to do what’s best

in their communities. Not have some other body that handles the dough.

Not have some other body that may add administration costs. Not add some

other body that may want to handcuff or may take too long to distribute

the money for actual certainty for investment for long-term

benefit.

Send it directly to the First Nations. Make the 25-year commitment

so they can sit down and figure out how they can leverage that cash flow

for the long-term benefit of their community and how they can fund

programs today that can grow into success, relative to things like youth

suicides and education and opportunities.

I absolutely believe we should revenue-share. But at no time did I

ever negotiate a deal on revenue-sharing where it dictated how the

community would spend the money. I believe that in this case, we

shouldn’t do that either. Let’s trust the First Nations and the

Indigenous communities.

B. D’Eith: I rise in support of Bill 36.

I did want to thank the member for Langley East for his comments,

especially in regards to his support for the 7 percent that the B.C.

Lottery Corp. is going to give to our First Nations. This is an historic

and important work.

In fact, before the last election, the Supreme Court of Canada

ruled that Aboriginal title and rights are a matter of law and justice.

It’s something that our party had accepted for many years and, in fact,

the former government had fought against.

One of the first things that we did when we got into government is

the Premier wrote letters to each minister instructing them to embrace

UNDRIP and the Truth and Reconciliation Commission recommendations and

to make sure that everything they did and everything across ministries

would actually support that.

That work has been started since 2017. We’re really proud of that.

This bill actually continues that work. But what does reconciliation

look like? For me, obviously, I started as an MLA in 2017.

[11:35 a.m.]

While I had had a chance to get to know some of the leaders in our

Indigenous community because of running in a federal election and other

things, I really didn’t have a chance to work, on a daily basis, with

our First Nations until I became an MLA. I can tell you that for me,

part of what reconciliation is about is listening and learning. I have

learned so much from my First Nations.

Getting to know…. Chief Grace George — I would like to say it’s

Chief George now and not Chief Cunningham. She just recently got

married, so I wanted to give her congratulations for that — who’s the

Chief of the Katzie First Nation, and Chief Marilyn Gabriel of the

Kwantlen have both, I think, become friends. I enjoy working with them.

I learn from them and their Elders and from what they are doing to

support their communities every time I meet with them.

In fact, when I first started as an MLA, there was a National

Indigenous Peoples Day. We were in Maple Ridge, in Memorial Peace Park,

in our gazebo, and the Elders were giving speeches about reconciliation.

There were a lot of people watching and listening. Right in the middle

of this, an older gentleman came up and started saying the most awful

things about Indigenous people to the people who were on the stage, many

of whom were triggered and burst into tears. Many of them had lived

through residential schools. Many of them had had their language

stripped from them through what had happened in the past.

I was in the middle of all of this. I was in the middle of the

group. I felt a lot of shame, and I felt upset. It was just awful. It

was an awful feeling. And for one moment, I had the ability, I think, to

sort of experience what people in that community feel on a daily basis.

That’s what the people from my community said. It’s like: “Well, this is

what we deal with every day.” So I got a chance to actually experience

that, and it was really a horrible feeling.

There was a silver lining to this, because one of the Elders stood

up and recognized the older gentleman as an Elder. He said: “In our

culture, we recognize the wisdom of Elders. You have your chance to

talk, and I recognize that, but I don’t agree with you.” And he spent

the next 15 minutes turning that moment into a learning experience. He

actually turned it on its head. By the end, I can say that we all felt

uplifted. We felt that you can learn from this negativity.

I think that is the spirit upon which reconciliation seems to be

moving forward under this government — just that listening, that

acceptance that there are different ways of going about things and

recognizing that there were things that happened in our past that we

need to work on.

There have been a number of things that have happened in my

community, with the Katzie and Kwantlen, that really were quite moving.

One of them…. I think this is part of reconciliation. The Ruskin dam has

just finished being refitted by B.C. Hydro. Right in the middle of

construction, they discovered a 9,000-year-old burial site where the

power plant was supposed to go. The area where the Ruskin dam is built

is actually very sacred territory for the Kwantlen First

Nations.

Construction stopped immediately. People were brought in, the dam

was moved up, and it was taken care of. There was a lot of respect given

to the Kwantlen First Nations, but it was not an easy relationship. It

was something that started, obviously, from a very difficult place,

because the original dam that was built 100 years ago was built on

sacred territory. There was no consideration given at that time to the

sacred lands of the Kwantlen people. So there was an automatic mistrust

of the processes that would go ahead.

Now, by the end of the process, the project actually had developed

such a good relationship with the Kwantlen First Nations that there’s

artwork that was created. Massive panels with artwork, on this dam —

they were created by Brandon Gabriel, a wonderful First Nations artist —

will celebrate, for the rest of time, the story of the Kwantlen people —

right on this dam, in giant panels.

[11:40 a.m.]

I was a witness at that, and I witnessed the unveiling of that. I

also learned that part of my responsibility as a witness is to tell the

story, and I’m telling this story today. That’s part of what I’m

learning. Part of reconciliation is learning and moving forward with

these stories.

Another one that was very moving was when we had the Katzie First

Nation announcing housing on reserve. To this scale, it’s unprecedented.

It’s so important for our First Nations to have the ability, on reserve,

to build homes with the support of the provincial government. In fact,

the Katzie are going to build 39 homes. Across the province, there will

be 1,143 homes that have already been approved. That’s very exciting

work, and again, that’s true reconciliation.

Another one that we recently announced was the opening of an

urgent and primary care and primary care networks in Maple Ridge. Now,

that may not seem immediately…. Why is that part of reconciliation? The

reason was that right from the beginning, the Katzie First Nation were

brought in to not only consult but to help design how the networks would

work and how the primary care would be given so that it was sensitive to

the culture of the Katzie First Nation. It was not only the division of

family practice and the province and other partners in the community; it

was also with the Katzie First Nation. Again, that’s reconciliation in

action. That’s listening. That’s designing programs.

Again, recently I was invited to participate in a ceremony with

both the Katzie and the Kwantlen, who have now formed a partnership to

deal with the first, First Nations woodland licence that was given on

the southern coast. This was ten years in the making, and it was such a

lot of work. The fact that it happened now is really a testament, again,

to our government’s recognition of reconciliation. Part of that was

something the Katzie had been asking for, for so long, which was the

ability to be a steward of a woodland area and to be able to celebrate

an area that included their people.

The one thing that came up from that — it was an absolutely moving

ceremony, and I was so privileged to be a part of that and, again, as a

witness, to be able to tell that story — was that both Chief George and

Chief Gabriel…. There was a change. There was a change since the

beginning of when I started as an MLA to now. When I first started,

there was this idea that, oh yeah, like Charlie Brown and the football,

you’re going to make all these promises, and nothing is going to happen,

just like the last government, just like governments before them for

decades and decades.

At this particular ceremony, I heard the words from both of those

Chiefs. They felt that it was their time. They felt that this was their

time to actually move forward with some of the things…. That’s really

important, this sort of change, where there’s this feeling that,

really…. It is a time when this is actually happening. It’s not about

words. It’s about action.

When I look at our government and the cross-government priorities

that were given to each ministry to adopt UNDRIP and the calls to action

for truth and reconciliation…. I look at things like the co-development

of legislation with B.C. First Nations to establish UNDRIP as a

framework for reconciliation in B.C. That’s happening right

now.

Ensuring Indigenous children and their families have better access

to culturally enriched early learning with more than 600 new and free

licensed child care spaces and expanded Aboriginal Head Start programs

in over 30 communities. That’s reconciliation at work.

Signing an accord to transform the treaty negotiations in British

Columbia to get results in a shorter time frame that leads to

prosperous, healthy and self-determining Indigenous communities. That’s

reconciliation.

Partnering with the Aboriginal Justice Council to develop an

Indigenous justice strategy to reduce the overrepresentation of

Indigenous people in B.C.’s justice system. That is

reconciliation.

A new professional standard that requires teachers to commit a

truth and reconciliation healing to ensure Indigenous students in B.C.

will be better supported and more connected in schools.

Renaming four provincial parks and one watershed. Protecting an

area to include traditional Indigenous names. That reflects the

historical and cultural significance of those areas.

[11:45 a.m.]

Supporting the revitalization and preservation of Indigenous

languages with a $50 million grant to the First Peoples Cultural

Council.

Providing $40 million to build and revitalize culturally safe

First Nations’ around mental health and addictions treatment centres

throughout B.C.

These are all examples and cultural significance of those areas.

Supporting the revitalization and preservation of Indigenous languages

with a $50 million grant to First Peoples Cultural Council. Providing

$40 million to build and revitalize culturally safe, First Nations–run

mental health and addictions treatment centres throughout B.C. These are

all examples of reconciliation at work.

Providing dedicated funding to Aboriginal friendship centres for

the first time and ensuring the continuity of these critical services

for urban Indigenous people.

Of course, there’s also the groundbreaking

government-to-government process that just happened with the Broughton

Archipelago. It shows that we recognize the importance of wild salmon,

ensuring the safety of wild salmon but also looking at the economic

opportunities for First Nations and their local communities.

That’s what is so important about this access to gaming revenue.

In fact, the First Nations have been asking for this for many, many

years. Since 2007, First Nation leaders have been presenting to the B.C.

government. In fact, back then, they suggested that the government

allocate 3 percent of the gross gambling revenue towards economic and

community development. At the time, when they were making these

presentations, they described what we’re doing now as the single most

important action the provincial government could take, in their words,

to “ease First Nations poverty and begin to close the economic and

social gap for all First Nations.”

This is about consistent funding. I’ve heard from the other side

about this idea that there are — and there are — different levels of

capacity and economic wealth between different nations. But this is

consistent funding. This is about levelling the playing field. This is

about adding consistency to knowing when funds will be coming

in.

I heard the member for Skeena talk about the time when his band

had…. You know, they were nearly bankrupt. Well, under this, this

wouldn’t happen. They would have access to funding on a consistent

basis. Very important to that, too, is that having consistent funding

would actually allow First Nations to borrow where they couldn’t before,

because First Nations can’t tax like municipalities and rely on those

funds to allow them to borrow. So this will allow First Nations not only

to get the funding that they’ll be getting but also leverage that

funding — do the things that they’ve been wanting to do for many

years.

It’s so disheartening to hear the member for Nechako Lakes say

that this program is somehow paying off our friends. This is quoting the

member for Nechako Lakes: “It seems to me more about paying off friends

than it is…actually getting the resources to the bands.” That is so

cynical. That cynicism is exactly the opposite of what we need to move

forward with reconciliation.

That’s why I’m so proud that, in Budget 2019, the provincial

government not only committed to 3 percent but to 7 percent of the net

provincial revenue from gaming to First Nations for 25 years. This is

stable funding that’s going to help an entire generation of First

Nations get the respect and reconciliation that they deserve.

Again, the opposition are questioning the percentage, like

somehow, again, trying to divide and say: “Well, does that mean other

people are not going to get funding?” This is the politics of division.

We’re talking about a population within British Columbia who are

disproportionately incarcerated, disproportionately homeless and

disproportionately living in poverty. That’s why talking about

percentages as if it’s a have-or-have-not thing is absolutely

outrageous, in my opinion, given what this is all about.

This agreement will actually allow First Nations in British

Columbia to get over $100 million per year. That, over the period, is

about $3 billion to B.C.’s First Nations over this entire contract. In

fact, earlier this fall, the province shared $194.84 million in revenue

— and that’s for the first two years of the agreement — to get ahead of

this. Because we have this legislation, but the government moved right

away on it.

[11:50 a.m.]

In fact, the First Nations are extremely happy about this —

extremely happy. I just have a quote from Judith Sayers, who is the

president of the Nuu-chah-nulth Tribal Council: “We’ve been waiting a

long time for this. I personally have been involved in trying to get

this going for 13 years, and it’s been at least 30 years that First

Nations have been doing it. So it’s a good day.” Sayers says the money

is deeply needed in many First Nations around the province. This is

echoed by many, many First Nation leaders around our

province.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

I also heard that the manner in which the money is going to be

allocated is somehow in question. Well, in fact, the limited partnership

arrangement that the First Nations are going to be using actually came

out of listening. That, again, is what true reconciliation is about.

That came from the leadership from the B.C. Assembly of First Nations,

First Nations Summit, the Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs and through the

First Nations Gaming Commission. And those all went back to members. So

this is about listening and about true reconciliation. This is

reconciliation in action.

Even coming up with the formula to deal with this…. The formula is

very simple: 50 percent base funding, based on community; 40 percent

based on population; and 10 percent to deal with geographic inequities

in remote communities. This is a simple formula. It’s fair, and I think

everybody will benefit from this.

Now, in the debate, the member for Skeena said: “Well, bands don’t

have the capacity to deal with getting this money.” But that is

ludicrous because the whole point of this is building capacity.

Capacity-building is actually written in as one of the key areas that

this funding is going to help, along with health and welfare, along with

infrastructure and safety and transportation, along with economic and

business development, along with education, language, culture and

training, along with community development and environmental

protection.

Capacity building, fiscal management and governance — that’s the

whole point here. While municipalities have the ability to tax and the

ability to build their capacity, First Nations will have this envelope

of funding that will give them that financial stability to build

capacity. That’s the whole point. That’s why I’m so proud of

this.

Noting the hour, I’d like to take my seat and move that we adjourn

the debate.

B. D’Eith moved adjournment of debate.

Motion approved.

Hon. M. Farnworth moved adjournment of the House.

Motion approved.

Mr. Speaker: This House stands adjourned until 1:30 this afternoon.

The House adjourned at 11:53 a.m.

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