Manitoba Hansard — 7 November 2024 (Sitting 85A, 43rd Legislature, 1st Session)

43-1-85a

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

First Session – Forty-Third Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Tom Lindsey Speaker Vol. LXXVIII No. 85A - 10 a.m., Thursday, November 7, 2024 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Third Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALTOMARE, Nello, Hon. Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma, Hon. Union Station NDP BALCAEN, Wayne Brandon West PC BEREZA, Jeff Portage la Prairie PC BLASHKO, Tyler Lagimodière NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian, Hon. Keewatinook NDP BYRAM, Jodie Agassiz PC CABLE, Renée, Hon. Southdale NDP CHEN, Jennifer Fort Richmond NDP COMPTON, Carla Tuxedo NDP COOK, Kathleen Roblin PC CROSS, Billie Seine River NDP DELA CRUZ, Jelynn Radisson NDP DEVGAN, JD McPhillips NDP EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FONTAINE, Nahanni, Hon. St.

Johns NDP GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC HIEBERT, Carrie Morden-Winkler PC JACKSON, Grant Spruce Woods PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake-Gimli PC KENNEDY, Nellie Assiniboia NDP KHAN, Obby Fort Whyte PC KINEW, Wab, Hon. Fort Rouge NDP KING, Trevor Lakeside PC KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Dauphin NDP LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom, Hon. Flin Flon NDP LOISELLE, Robert St. Boniface NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya, Hon. Notre Dame NDP MOROZ, Mike River Heights NDP MOSES, Jamie, Hon. St.

Vital NDP MOYES, Mike Riel NDP NARTH, Konrad La Vérendrye PC NAYLOR, Lisa, Hon. Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC OXENHAM, Logan Kirkfield Park NDP PANKRATZ, David Waverley NDP PERCHOTTE, Richard Selkirk PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Turtle Mountain PC REDHEAD, Eric Thompson NDP SALA, Adrien, Hon. St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHMIDT, Tracy, Hon. Rossmere NDP SCHOTT, Rachelle Kildonan-River East NDP SCHULER, Ron Springfield-Ritchot PC SIMARD, Glen, Hon. Brandon East NDP SMITH, Bernadette, Hon. Point Douglas NDP STONE, Lauren Midland PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry Ind.

WHARTON, Jeff Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt, Hon. Concordia NDP WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC

3453 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, November 7, 2024 The House met at 10 a.m. The Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom, know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen.

We acknowledge we are gathered on Treaty 1 territory and that Manitoba is located on the treaty territories and ancestral lands of the Anishinaabeg, Anishininewuk, Dakota Oyate, Denesuline and Nehethowuk nations. We acknowledge Manitoba is located on the Homeland of the Red River Métis. We acknowledge northern Manitoba includes lands that were and are the ancestral lands of the Inuit. We respect the spirit and intent of treaties and treaty making and remain committed to working in partner- ship with First Nations, Inuit and Métis people in the spirit of truth, reconciliation and collaboration. Please be seated.

Routine proceedings– ORDERS OF THE DAY PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS Mr. Grant Jackson (Deputy Official Opposition House Leader): Can you please call for concurrence and third reading of Bill 217, The Men' s Mental Health Awareness Week Act, followed by Bill 203, the–resuming second reading debate of Bill 203, The Occupiers' Liability Amendment Act.

The Speaker: It has been announced that we will now do concurrence and third reading on Bill 217, The Men's Mental Health Awareness Week Act (Com - memoration of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended), followed by debate on second reading of Bill 203, The Occupiers' Liability Amendment Act. CONCURRENCE AND THIRD READINGS– PUBLIC BILLS Bill 217–The Men's Mental Health Awareness Week Act (Commemoration of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended) The Speaker: So concurrence and third reading on Bill 217, The Men's Mental Health Awareness Week Act (Commemoration of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended).

MLA Bob Lagassé (Dawson Trail): I move, seconded by the member for Portage, that Bill 217, The Men 's Mental Health Awareness Week Act (Commemoration of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended);

Loi sur la Semaine de sensibilisation à la santé mentale des hommes (modification de la

Loi sur les journées, les semaines et les mois commémoratifs), reported from the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development, be concurred in and now be read for a third time and passed. Motion presented. MLA Lagassé: Good morning. To say I'm excited to see this bill forward to royal assent today would be an understatement. How we got here has been a journey of personal healing as well as a conversation that has led to shared stories of men and young men who are struggling and have struggl ed with their own mental health battles.

We have heard stories of men and young men who have won their battles and sombre reminders of those who have not. This bill will continue to remove the stigma around men's mental health. How stigma is being removed is simply by reminding us that it's okay not to be okay. What 's not okay is to go through it alone. If you are struggling, there 's no shame and no weakness in reaching out to talk and seek help. You are not alone in your struggles. To my colleagues in this House, a reminder of what I shared on the day I talked about my own struggles: be kind to one another. This environment can be extremely toxic.

We as leaders in our communities and elected by the ridings we serve have a duty to lead by example. Thank you all for your help in passing this im portant non-partisan bill. In my mind, this bill will no doubt have an impact on the future generations of boys and men in the province of Manitoba. And you all have played a role in this. The Speaker: Is the House ready for the question? Some Honourable Members: Question.

3454 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 7, 2024 The Speaker: Question before the House is concurrence and third reading of Bill 217, The Men's Mental Health Awareness Week Act (Com memora- tion of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended). Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] The motion is accordingly passed.

DEBATE ON SECOND READINGS– PUBLIC BILLS Bill 203–The Occupiers' Liability Amendment Act The Speaker: So now we will, as previously announced, move on to debate on seconding reading of Bill 203, The Occupiers' Liability Amendment Act, and the debate is standing in the name of the honour- able Minister of Economic Development, Investment, Trade and Natural Resources, who has seven minutes remaining. Hon. Jamie Moses (Minister of Economic Development, Investment, Trade and Natural Resources): It's a real pleasure to have, once again, another chance to rise and speak to Bill 203.

And I think it's, you know, unique, the function in the way this House works; it's still my first opportun- ity to speak, but yes, in my third chance, third different day, speaking to this private member 's bill. So I 'm– you know, I consider myself fortunate to be able to continue to put words on the record with respect to Bill 203. Before I dive into it, I've–again, I've been looking forward to this opportunity, my third chance.

I wanted to just put the record in and make note of the fact that we're–many members in the Chamber are wearing Bombers–Blue Bombers gear today in anticipation of their big western conference semifinal game on Saturday. And I want to, you know, send my well wishes to the entire Bombers team, all the players, all the support staff, the entire fan community that will be out there cheering for you, supporti ng you this Saturday. Go, Bombers, go.

And so as I dive into, you know, my comments around Bill 203, I can't help but have football on my mind, and I think about, you know, the changes that are proposed here around having a 60-day–you know, a 60-day limit on when, you know, notices can be – injury claims can be put forward. And, you know, you can't help but think about–a little bit about, you know, when these sort–a situation might happen in football, and I'll use an analogy here, Honourable Speaker.

You know, when a play happens in football and, you know, whether it 's a penalty happens or a mispenalty and, you know, a coach looks to the play and says, you know what, I don't think the referee got this right, I think that there 's something that maybe– I maybe have to challenge for this, perhaps. And so they have a limited amount of time to challenge. But the rules in football have found a way to make that an appropriate amount of time to challenge that decision or non-decision by a referee. * (10:10) And so the rule is that the–must challenge before the next play begins.

They don' t say you have five seconds after the play –previous play has ended to make that challenge decision. It's not just 10 seconds. It's until the entire length of the time in-between plays, so you have until in-between the entire plays to make that call, to throw that challenge flag. Now, in Bill 203, what the member opposite is proposing is to sit–set a 60-day period to put forward these injury claims that are related to anything that might happen on private property.

Now that 's like setting a limit on how long a coach has to chal - lenge a play–throw that red challenge flag, and I know Coach O'Shea has a terrific record of throwing those challenge flags, and I think it 's really benefited the Bombers to have such an well -experienced and respected coach in the CFL. But it's like setting a limit on how long he had to throw the challenge flag–only like a five -second or 10-second limit. Now that length of time might not be appropriate and so, too, would this 60- day notice period might not be appro priate, either. I think about many Manitobans who might need longer to (

a) maybe recover from their injury; deal with their aftermath of this injury, whether that' s a physical or mental health impact; whether it is to have those injuries assessed by a professional; maybe acquire the services of a legal pro fessional, a lawyer, who can properly assess and deter mine the best course of action for this individual–that takes time, Honourable Speaker. It takes time. And I parti cularly think that that time might be something that might be challenging to set a 60-day limit on that sort of thing.

Now, I think it's on us as Manitobans to deter mine what that ap propriate length of time is, and I would argue that, in particular cases where Manitobans are, you know, maybe less familiar with the legal system in Manitoba, or perhaps they might struggle with language because perhaps they're new–newer to Manitoba, and English

November 7, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3455 or French is not their first language. And so, for those folks who maybe have challenges navigating the systems in Manitoba, they might need more time than 60 days. And so, I think that, you know, I –while I respect the, perhaps, inten tion with which the member opposite brings forward Bill 203, I think really–you know, we ought to find ways to continue to bring– make Manitoba as safe as possible.

And so, I think that there's, you know, a lot of continued efforts we can do to increase safety that might be beyond and not including the efforts made by members opposite in Bill 203. So I think that there's a–more and better that we should be doing to increase Manitoban safety. One thing that I know is increasing Manitoba safety is our move as a provincial gov ernment to reintroduce the one -to-one ratio for ap prenticeships. And I think that is certainly –is a way to make Manitoba safe –safer on the work place means that not only are they going to work safe, but they come back home safe.

And when they come back home, you want them to continue to be safe on their private property at home. I think that that is safe and that spokes–speaks to the issues that Bill 203–but it also speaks to safety throughout our com munity and our– out our workforce. And so these are ways that our government can actually bring in real efforts to bring in safe measures for Manitobans, and I think safety is very important. I also commend our Minister of Justice, our Attorney General (Mr. Wiebe), for ever -significant efforts that he is making to safety, as well.

And I can't speak highly enough of the consultative effort that he's been making. That –those efforts to bring out public and com munity safety is critically impor tant for us being able to deliver on our commitment–our govern- ment's commitment to Manitobans; a commitment in which we will be able to offer safe–and a better quality of life for Manitobans; a com mitment to raising the ability for us to serve Manitobans with high- quality health care and also deliver on affordability challenge that Manitobans are facing. We continue to make efforts to move the needle on all of those fronts.

With respect to Bill 203, I think that this is not the direction that our government is taking to implement those initiatives. We've got more to say, more to do, and we'll keep working every day for Manitobans. The Speaker: Member's time is expired. Introduction of Guests The Speaker: Before recognizing the next speaker, there's a guest in the gallery that I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us today Bhavika Sandhu, former legislative page and the daughter of the hon- ourable member for The Maples.

On behalf of all honourable members, we welcome you here today. * * * MLA Mintu Sandhu (The Maples): It is my honour to rise in the House today to put a few comments on Bill 203, The Occupiers' Liability Amendment Act. Before I put any comment on this bill, I also–we have a special day coming up. We won' t be sitting next week but first, Guru Nanak Dev Ji 's birthday, Gurpurab is coming next week. I wish to everyone who is here, please visit gurdwara or you might see another fireworks going on, on Friday. So that is the reason, because our Sikh founder 's birthday is on Friday, November 15.

Honourable Speaker, under amend ments to The Occupiers' Liability Act, notice of personal injury claims related to snow or ice on private property must be given within 60 days after the injury occurred. So I guess this is what this bill is trying to do. The notice must be given to an occupier or a property or a contractor engaged to remove snow or ice on the property. Notice given to one of them is notice given to everyone who may be subject to the claim.

The 60-day notice period does not apply in cases of injury resulting in death or if a court deter mined that there was a reasonable excuse for failing to comply and that failure does not prejudice that defendant. The limitation period for bringing a claim is not affected. Honourable Speaker, my thinking of this bill is this amend ment aims to impose stricter regula tions regarding the notification period for personal injury claims related to snow or ice on the private property. I was sitting with my friend yesterday and I said, you know what, I might have a chance to speak on this bill. What your thoughts are?

Because he owns a gas station, which is private property. What will happen after, you know, somebody falls at your property and you didn't clean the snow properly or something? And well, he, even though his thoughts were completely different than what this bill was saying, and I think it 's–we want to make sure we are

3456 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 7, 2024 protecting those people. Some people may not, as the minister said earlier, their first language is English or French, they may have a difficult under standing of the laws. And they may be new comers to Manitoba and they maybe have a –they may be in the hospital recovering meanwhile in this period of time. And also some seniors, it may take a little bit longer for the seniors to recover from the injuries that may result with the falling on, like on the snow or ice.

And I remember, Hon ourable Speaker, during not my first nomination meeting but my second nomination meeting, even though this was a public property, one of the persons –the previous night, we had a snow –actually ice. So the person came in, Handi spot was taken over by someone and all of a sudden, on the way back after the nomination meeting, he fell down and he broke his ankle. And it is now he's realizing those injuries that occurred at that time are impacting him, even though this has happened like two years –probably over two years now.

Again, this is some thing that we want to make sure we–even though this bill is talking about a private property, but we want to make sure we are giving people enough time to think about it and even to recover during this time and also get legal advice. * (10:20) Even again, as I said earlier, they may be new - comers, they may have a difficult under standing this even–they probably have no idea what to do.

They may have to visit later on to maybe one of the MLA's offices to find, okay, you know what, this is what happened to me, I was visiting a grocery store and I fell down, I 'm hurt and I haven' t recovered; it has been three months, what should I do? And, you know, those are the things that people really don't know what to do. And again, this is hard to understand for the new comers and also for the seniors. And I think this is –again, this bill is limiting those people 's options, and reducing the time from 90 days to 60 days is not the way I think our govern - ment wants to do.

We want to make sure people have the access to the information, they have access to the legal system, they have access and they are informed about what this regulation means. And so it is impor tant that we are giving people who are not familiar with the law enough time to have an understanding of the law. So, again, as I said earlier, Honourable Speaker, and for this side of the House, we want to make sure we are giving people enough time to recover. And also, as earlier, the minister said, if, you know, the Bombers are playing a big game on – Saturday or something? An Honourable Member: Saturday.

MLA Sandhu: Saturday, okay, on Saturday. Well, I will be watching on the TV. I don't have the tickets, but I'm a big fan of, again, the Jets and the Bombers. And again, Jets are at 12 -1 and we will be watching tonight as well, probably checking the scores online. And I 'd like to wish all those –all the Bombers fans, hey, you know what, we have to party. I 'm sure they are going to win. But can I say that we can guarantee that they are going to win? Some Honourable Members: No. MLA Sandhu: No, we can 't say it? Okay, no, we won't say that.

Okay, and because in the government– we can't promise that we cannot keep, okay. But, again, go, Bombers, go. And go, Jets, go. Thank you very much, Honourable Speaker. Hon. Glen Simard (Minister of Sport, Culture, Heritage and Tourism): I want to thank my colleagues for standing up today and talking about this very im portant issue. I 'd also like to thank the opposing member to be –to have brought this issue forward so we can discuss items around safety and injury.

And obviously, on this side of the House we are making the case that the 60 -day notice require ment fails to consider some of the realities of injury recovery. Many injuries, particularly severe ones, may not immediately show their full effects. Victims may not be in physical or mental state, just to make stringent timelines, especially if they are hospitalized. L'exigence proposée d'un préavis de 60 jours ne tient pas compte des réalités de la récupération des blessures. De nombreuses blessures, en particulier les plus graves, peuvent ne pas montrer immédiatement tous leurs effets.

Les victimes ne sont peut -être pas dans un état physique ou mental suffisant pour respecter un délai aussi strict, surtout si elles sont hospitalisées. Translation The proposed 60-day notice requirement does not take into account the realities of injury recovery. Many injuries, particularly serious ones, may not show their

November 7, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3457 full effects immediately. Victims may not be in suf- ficient physical or mental condition to meet such a strict deadline, especially if they are hospitalized. English People who suffer injuries often face a range of financial, emotional and physical challenges. Imposing a strict deadline for reporting could dis - courage them from seeking justice, parti cularly if they feel –fear missing the window due to com - plications in their recovery or other pressing concerns. And I think, going back to the analogy that the member from St.

Vital made, when you challenge, it's–make sure that you have–you get the call right. Right? You want to get the call right. The integrity of the game, of the rules, it's all about making sure every- thing is done is a proper way. And sometimes rushing those effects may not have that result. La modification peut nuire involontairement aux petites entreprises de déneigement qui sont souvent exploitées par des particuliers ou des petites équipes.

Ces entreprises sont déjà en difficulté économique et le projet de loi pourrait leur imposer une pression excessive, qui pourrait rendre plus difficile pour elles de maintenir les contrats équitables avec des propriétaires. Translation The amendment may unintentionally harm small snow removal companies, which are often operated by individuals or small teams. These companies are already struggling economically, and the bill could put undue pressure on them, making it more difficult for them to maintain fair contracts with landlords.

English And this amendment could unintentionally harm small snow removal businesses who are frequently operated by individuals or small teams. These busi - nesses are already struggling economically, and the bill could place excessive strain on them, potentially making it harder for them to maintain fair contracts where–property owners. When I was –we also have the 60- day notice period could further hinder access to justice especially vulnerable or marginalized groups.

These individuals may already face dif ficulties navigating the legal system, and a rigid deadline could disproportionately affect their ability to pursue legitimate claims. Le préavis de 60 jours pourrait entraver davantage l'accès à la justice, en particulier pour les groupes vulnérables ou marginalisés. Ces personnes peuvent déjà avoir de la difficulté si elles se retrouvent dans le système judiciaire et si un délai rigide pourrait nuire de manière disproportionnée à leur capacité de réclamation légitime.

Translation The 60-day notice period could further impede access to justice, particularly for vulnerable or marginalized groups. These people may already struggle if they find themselves in the justice system and a rigid time limit could disproportionately harm their ability to make a legitimate claim. English Going back to the analogy about the football challenge, it's about fairness, right? How fair is it to have a ruling on the field go against you when there's clear evidence that if you take the time to get the call right, that things will be done right.

While the bill includes exceptions for cases like death or reasonable excuse, these may not be broad enough to cover other circum stances, such as mental incapacity or simply being unaware of the need to file a notice. Expanding these exceptions could better address the variety of challenges faced by injured individuals. So we would encourage these types of modifications to be included next time.

Bien que le projet de loi comprenne des exceptions pour ces cas, comme le décès ou une excuse raisonnable, celles-ci ne sont pas peut -être pas assez larges pour couvrir d'autres circonstances, telles que l'incapacité mentale ou le simple fait de ne pas savoir qu'il est nécessaire de déposer un avis. L'élargissement de ces exceptions permettrait de mieux répondre aux divers défis auxquels sont confrontées les blesse–personnes blessées.

Translation While the bill includes exceptions for these cases, such as death or a reasonable excuse, these may not be broad enough to cover other circumstances, such as mental incapacity or simply not knowing that a notice needs to be filed. Broadening these exceptions would better address the various challenges faced by injured people. English Manitoba's harsh winters, we all know about that. Like Jon Snow says and Robb Stark says: w inter is coming.

3458 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 7, 2024 You know, marked by frequent snow and ice, make it essential for property owners to maintain safe walkways and driveways. Neglecting snow and ice removal can lead to serious injuries. In 2016-17 nearly 9,000 people in Canada were hospitalized due to falls on ice. In Winnipeg alone, the number of fall -related injuries increased by 68 from one year to the next. Property owners, we agree, must be held accountable for ensuring their proper ties are safe for public use.

En raison des hivers rigoureux du Manitoba, marqués par les fréquentes chutes de neige et de glace, il est essentiel pour les propriétaires fonciers d'entretenir les allées et les allées sécuritaires. Négliger le déneigement et le déglaçage peut entraîner des blessures graves. En 2016-17, près de 9 000 personnes au Canada ont été hospitalisées en raison de chute sur la glace. À Winnipeg seulement, le nombre de blessures liées aux chutes a augmenté de 68 d'une année à l'autre. Les propriétaires doivent être tenus responsables de veiller à ce que leurs propriétés soient sûres pour l'utilisation publique.

Translation Manitoba's harsh winters, marked by frequent snow and ice, make it essential for property owners to maintain safe driveways and walkways. Neglecting snow and ice removal can lead to serious injuries. In 2016- 17, nearly 9,000 people in Canada were hospitalized due to falls on the ice. In Winnipeg alone, the number of fall -related injuries increased by 68 from one year to the next. Property owners must be held accountable for ensuring their properties are safe for public use.

English The PCs ' government approach –or the failed PC government's 'papproach' to public safety including cuts to snowplowing services and winter road main- tenance has raised concerns. In 2021, the government sold off plow trucks, worsening road condi tions in winter. * (10:30) Additionally, their passing of bill 11 weakened workplace safety pro tections, limiting employees ' ability to report health and safety issues. These actions raise questions about whether the PC gov ernment had prioritized public safety or shielded large property owners from legal accountability.

L'approche du gouvernement conservateur en matière de sécurité publique, y compris les compressions dans les services de déneigement et d'entretien hivernal des routes, a soulevé nos préoccupations. En 2021, le gouvernement Stefanson a vendu des camions de déneigement, aggravant l'état des routes d'hiver. De plus, l'adoption de projet de loi 11 a affaibli les mesures de pro tection de sécurité de travail, limitant la capacité des employés à signaler les problèmes de santé et de sécurité.

Ces actions soulèvent de sérieuses questions quant à savoir si le gouvernement ‘conservatrice’ accorde la–a accordé la priorité à la sécurité publique ou de la sécurité des gens. Translation The Conservative government's approach to public safety, including cuts to snow removal and wintertime road maintenance services, has raised our concerns. In 2021, the Stefanson government sold off snow removal trucks, worsening the condition of winter roads. In addition, the passage of bill 11 weakened work - place safety protections, limiting employees' ability to report health and safety concerns.

These actions raise serious questions about whether the Conservative government is giving priority to public safety or people's safety. English We, in contrast, are committed to safety. The NDP has demonstrated a stronger commitment to–for safety. We introduced a Transportation Infrastructure Amendment Act, bill 229, which sets no clearing standards for provincial roads. We have also work ed to enhance workplace safety by mending the Employ- ment Standards Code to extend long- term leave for serious injuries. We can definitely stand on our record of safety.

The NDP 's approach prioritizes safety with com - passion, ensuring both Manitobans and workers are better protected. Under the current Occupiers ' Liability Act, property owners are respon sible for maintaining reasonably safe conditions on their property. However, someone in injured, they must prove to the occupier failed to address a known hazard like snow or ice.

November 7, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3459 The proposed amendment would require the injured party to report the injury within 60 days, which could complicate the process, parti cularly for those with severe injuries. En vertu de la

Loi sur la responsabilité des occupants actuelle, les propriétaires sont responsables du maintien d’une condi tion 'raisonnement' sûre sur leur propriété. Cependant, si quelqu'un est blessé, il doit prouver que l'occupant n'a pas traité un danger connu, comme la neige ou la glace. La modification proposée exigerait que la

partie lésée signale la blessure dans 60 jours, qui pourrait compliquer le processus, en particulier pour les personnes gravement blessées. Translation Under the current Occupiers’ Liability Act, landlords are responsible for maintaining a reasonably safe condition on their property. However, if someone is injured, they must prove that the occupier failed to deal with a known hazard, such as snow or ice. The proposed amendment would require the injured party to report the injury within 60 days, which could complicate the process, particularly for seriously injured people.

English While The Occupiers' Liability Amendment Act aims to improve safety, the 60-day notice requirement introduced unneces sary challenges for injured Manitobans. While property owners must remain accountable for maintaining safe con ditions, the bill could disproportionately harm vulnerable individuals, small contractors and marginalized communities. The NDP 's focus is on balancing public safety with fairness, ensuring that all Manitobans have the right to justice, particularly those injured. Thank you, Honourable Speaker.

The Speaker: Before recognizing the next speaker, I've been pretty generous as far as relevance goes, but please try and keep your comments somewhat focused on the bill at hand. MLA JD Devgan (McPhillips): Thank you for the note, I will try my best. But I want to start, actually, as others did, with a note. It's a great time to be a Manitoban right now. Bombers are going to the western finals, Jets are going great, the Fonz is in Winnipeg and he loves Deer + Almond. Some Honourable Members: Yes. MLA Devgan: Right? It' s a great time to be a Manitoban and exciting. Go, Bombers, go.

But, you know, it's a pleasure and it 's a privilege to be in this Chamber and to rise each and every day to put a few words on the record and to speak about what we 're doing as a govern ment to make life safer, more affordable for Manitobans after seven and a half years–Progressive Conservatives fumbled the ball whilst gov ernment, and here we are, fixing their damage. And it's a pleasure to rise today to speak to this particular bill. I have to say I understand the reason for bringing this bill forward.

You know, it 's interesting, just by coincidence, I had a conver sation with my cousin this morning on the way into the office, and I was having trouble getting a hold of him for the last few weeks, and I didn' t know he actually had an injury. My cousin is involved in construction and dev- elopment, and he was at a work site where, for whatever reason, there was a mis communication between himself and one of his employees, and he took a tumble.

A set of stairs were not fastened or screwed in properly, he put his foot on the stairs and he fell about six feet, a little over six feet, not too big of a fall but he fell on top of the stairs, and unfor - tunately, he cracked a few ribs. And yes, and so obviously I'm very happy to hear that he 's on the mend now. He 's doing a lot better. I wished he'd reached out to me and told me, but to my cousin Gora, I hope you' re doing better and looking forward to seeing you again. But I think this speaks to just how you never know when you can have an injury and where you can have it, right?

And it just takes a split second for you to put your foot in the wrong spot. You may not know that the ground on which you' re laying your foot is not solid, or you may slip, and suddenly you' re MIA or out of action for signi ficant amount of time and you can cause yourself significant injury. So it's a reminder for not only those who are on work sites–I know this is about occupiers' liability and this is a little bit more about workers ' safety, but I think this applies to anybody wherever you are: Be cognizant about your surroundings, be safe, wear pro- tective equipment.

But I think it 's important to recognize that if my cousin was out of com mission for a few weeks, probably 60 days, and he didn't have time to text me,

3460 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 7, 2024 think about the seniors who take a tumble on a icy patch during the winter and may be out of commission for a little while. May, in some cases, bump their head or something else and may not have the wherewithal to even consider their legal options. And I think what my colleagues have noted here bears repeating, but a 60- day window is far, far too short. It is not enough time for, I think, anyone to take into consid eration their options, right?

It 's not a guarantee that anybody needs to take legal action, and I can ap preciate why the member across the way brought this bill forward. If I consider our neighbours to the south and just how, in my opinion, how overly litigious that society is in intro ducing lawsuits over minutiae, I certainly hope th at Canada, you know, is better than that. And we do have protec tions now for property owners that prevent, you know, such frivolous lawsuits from coming forward, and I think that does enough to protect those property owners.

But putting a 60-day limit to any legal action is very restrictive, and I think some of my colleagues had mentioned that, you know, it takes time for you to sort of esta blish where you are physically and mentally and what your next steps are forward. I'm going to steal an analogy from my colleague, the Minister of Economic Dev elopment, but you know, when you catch the football in the end zone, you need some time to establish possession. And same with an injury, you need some time to esta blish your options and what you feel like does you justice.

And 60 days is certainly, in my opinion, and I would say the opinion of folks on this side of the House, it's not enough time. Of course, we want to strike a balance. You want to have enough time between an injury or an incident for the person who suffered an injury to consider their options, but also, you know, you don' t want people coming back three, four, five years down the road with a lawsuit. So there is a window here. What that window is, I'm happy to have that conversation or discussion.

But 60 days is quite restrictive, and I would be curious to know what the member across the way was con sid- ering in using this particular number for 60 days as a time window. My colleague, the Minister of Sport, Culture, Heritage and everything fun under the sun, mentioned that winter is on its way.

And I think that' s a good reminder for property owners to be responsi ble and cognizant of their own properties and upkeep and clearing their properties, making sure that they' re throwing salt, sand, whatever it may be, making sure that their access to their businesses and property is safe for anyone entering and preventing those injuries, right? * (10:40) And I think there 's a fair bit of respon sibility on property owners as well, right?

If you want to avoid situations where folks who are visiting your busi ness or your property are suffering injuries, then I think it is incumbent upon you, as a property owner, to also take those precautions and prevent those condi tions from occurring that a person can incur an injury. So it is an important reminder that my colleague had noted. But I also do want to notice that our govern ment is very much focused on making life safer for Manitobans in all facets, whether it' s personal safety or public safety as well.

And I think it 's important to recognize that we 're committed to preventing injury and upholding safety for Manitobans everywhere. The Minister of Labour and Immigration (MLA Marcelino) introduced a proposed legis lation to increase Manitoba's workers' health and safety by re-establishing the Advisory Council on Workplace Safety and Health. The minister also intro duced amendments to the Employment Standards Code that would extend long- term leave for serious injury or illness to 27 weeks. This is compassion from a compassionate govern- ment, and that is compassionate policy.

The Minister of Advanced Edu cation brought forward proposed legislation to maintain the safety of students at post-secondary institutions. The bill speaks to heighten need to uphold safety in all corners of our province. The Minister of Families (MLA Fontaine) brought forward legis lation to protect Manitobans seeking reproductive health care while the PCs sadly continue to fight this important legislation. So, you know, when the opposi tion brings forward bills like this, again, I mentioned this in the last time I spoke. [interjection] And I can hear my colleagues across the way saying relevance.

Well, it's important to build context, right? This –nothing happens in this Chamber –nothing here happens in a vacuum. And it's important to establish history of how we got to where we are today. Wasn't by accident that our

November 7, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3461 government ended up in the government benches. It's because seven and a half years they chose to ignore– The Speaker: Order, please. The member's strayed pretty far from the contents of this bill we 're discussing, so I' d ask him to please bring his comments back to the relevant bill. MLA Devgan: I very much ap preciate your note. I – what I was I guess trying to do was esta blish some context vis-à-vis safety. The safety for Manitobans, the safety for anyone on private property and what our government is doing to make our province safer for everyone.

And I think Manitobans would be interested to hear what their government is doing. When it comes to this bill, on its face, I do think that it' s an –important to strike a good balance for legal action. But as all my colleagues have noted and that I think is worth bear –worth repeating, a 60-day window is far, far too prohibitive and restrictive for anyone considering legal action. And so I would encourage our colleagues across the way to maybe reconsider how they are proposing this bill. Thank you, Honourable Speaker.

MLA Jennifer Chen (Fort Richmond): Honourable Speaker, I rise today to put some words on the record in response to Bill 203, The Occupiers ' Liability Amendment Act, which proposes an amendment to The Occupiers' Liability Act, requiring that notice of personal injury claims related to snow and ice on private property being given to–within 60 days of the incident. First and foremost, let me empha size that we all share the goal ensuring the safety of Manitobans.

Property owners, whether private individuals or large corporations, have a responsibility to maintain a safe environment for everyone who enters their property, particularly when winter con ditions bring snow and ice that can lead to dangerous falls and injures. However, while this amend ment may seem well intentioned, I have serious concerns about the short 60-day notice requirement, and its impact on those who are already victims of injury.

Injured Manitobans should not be burdened with procedural hurdles when they are already grappling with the physical, emotional and financial con sequences of a serious injury. We are living in a province where winter con di- tions can be harsh and unpredictable. Snowstorms, freezing rain and ice storms are a regular occurrence. While property owners and managers must ensure their properties are safe, we also need to consider the realities faced by individuals who are injured in these conditions. Imagine this: a Manitoban slips and falls on ice or snow on a neighbour's driveway or a com mercial parking lot.

They are hospitalized with a broken leg, concussion or worse. The proposed 60- day notice period would require them to notify the property owner or contractor within two months of the incident. While the in tention behind this may be to encourage prompt action, the reality is that many injured people may not even be aware of the full extent of their injuries within 60 days. Some injuries, especially those related to falls on ice, may take time to fully assess, and many people may not fully recover physically or even regain their capacity to deal with the legal process during this short time frame.

The proposed amendment lacks the necessary flexibility to accommodate these situations. Injuries from falls on snow or ice can leave people physically incapacitated for weeks or months. This is particularly true for older adults who are particularly vulnerable to falls. According to Shared Health, between 2020 and 2021, 6,261 Manitobans were hospitalized due to falls, many of them from icy conditions. Injured people need time to recover, both physic- ally and mentally. They also need time to gather infor- mation, seek legal counsel and decide whether they wish to pursue a claim.

Requiring notice to be given within 60 days places an undue burden on those who are already struggling with the conse quences of their injuries. In addition to the physical and emotional toll, we know that there can also be a financial strain. People may be missing work or may need additional care - giving if their injuries are severe. Requiring them to notify the property owner within 60 days may seem like a mere technicality, but for injured parties it can feel like an obstacle to justice. The impact of this amendment on snow–on small snow removal contractors is also a serious concern.

Many small in dependent contractors are respon sible for maintaining properties during the winter months, especially in rural areas and small communities. Some of these contractors may be local farmers, part -time workers or small operations that rely on this income during the winter months. The legis lation as written does not adequately address how the 60- day notice require ment would impact these small businesses. While large companies

3462 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 7, 2024 often have the resources to deal with these types of legal matters, small contractors could find themselves in the precarious position, especially if they are unable to meet the technical require ments of this law. We should be focusing on protecting both Manitobans' safety and the livelihoods of local workers. This bill, as currently proposed, risks placing undue pressure on small contractors who are just trying to make a living. I also want to highlight that the 60 -day notice period will likely disproportionately affect marginalized communities.

Low -income individuals, new comers and those unfamiliar with the legal system may have limited access to resources and support to navigate such a process. Requiring such a short notice period could effectively deny these individuals access to justice, further widening the gap between those who can afford legal counsel and those who cannot. Additionally, many people may be unaware of their legal rights or the complex procedures required to initiate a claim.

This bill could create barriers to justice, especially for those already at a disadvantage. * (10:50) It's also crucial to remember that the proposed amendment does not just affect the injured parties, it also creates a liability risk for property owners and the contractors. If the injured party is unable to meet the 60-day deadline, they may lose the ability to seek compensation altogether, even–they had a legitimate claim. This creates an inequitable playing field where only those who can meet the deadlines get the chance to pursue legal action, leaving others in a state of vul- nerability.

While the bill does include exceptions in cases of deaths or reasonable excuse, these exceptions still do not go far enough in addressing the real -life circum- stances that injured Manitobans may face. What if someone is suffering from a mental health crisis following the injury? What if they are in a coma, or unable to act within the prescribed timeline due to family obligations or health -related complications? These are real-life scenarios that need to be accounted for, with more comprehensive and flexible provisions.

Our NDP team is committed to ensuring that Manitobans are safe and have access to justice when injuries occur, but we believe this amendment needs more thought and a more balanced approach. Our gov- ernment has a strong track record of safety im prove- ments in Manitoba. In 2022, we brought forward bill 229, The Trans portation Infra structure Amend - ment Act, which introduced a–new standards for snow clearing on provincial roads. We understand how crucial it is to protect Manitobans and their families during the winter months.

In conclusion, Hon ourable Speaker, the goal of this amendment is to keep Manitobans safe, but it goes about it in the wrong way. The 60-day notice require- ment places an unreasonable burden on injured parties, particularly when they may be dealing with severe injuries or significant personal challenges. We believe that Manitobans should be allowed the time and the flexibility they need to recover and make informed decisions about their rights. Our NDP team stands firmly in support of a fairer and more compas- sionate approach to this issue.

So I encourage my colleagues on all sides to reconsider this amend ment, listen to the concerns of the people of Manitoba and work together to ensure that justice, fairness and safety are at the forefront of any changes we make to our laws. Thank you, Honourable Speaker. Mr. Logan Oxenham (Kirkfield Park): I'd like to take this time, of course, to shout -out the Winnipeg Blue Bombers. As we know, Saturday, they're playing in the western conference final and we're all rooting for you, so go, Bombers, go. Yes.

I'd also like to shout -out another team, if I may: the Grace Hospital workers and the folks working at the new minor injury and illness clinic, who deal with slip-and-fall injuries, and especially in the wintertime. So I just want to shout -out, lift them up for the good work that they do, and they take good care of folks when they need it. So I stand here before you today to engage in a critical discussion regarding the private member's Bill 203, The Occupiers' Liability Amendment Act, which has been introduced by the government opposi- tion.

The premise of this bill raises sig nificant issues that we must scrutinize closely to ensure the well-being of all Manitobans. As a gov ernment, our paramount goal is to prevent injuries and maintain safety of all of our citizens. We firmly believe that property owners and managers must be held accountable for their responsi- bility to uphold reasonable health and safety practices on their properties.

However, I have to express my grave concerns regarding the proposed amendment that mandates a 60 -day notice period for individuals wishing to file personal injury claims related to con - ditions such as snow or ice on private property.

November 7, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3463 Firstly, 60 days is simply too short, especially when we consider the realities many injured individuals face. For those who find them selves hospital-bound or enduring a long recovery, the ability to provide notice within this time frame may be hindered. So it's crucial to recognize that while we strive to prevent injuries, we must also allow injured Manitobans t he right to seek justice for those injustices that they have already suffered. This amend ment places an undue burden on victims.

It requires injured parties to secure legal counsel while they are grappling with the physical, emotional and financial repercussions of their injuries. We must ask ourselves: Is this what we want for our fellow citizens? I don't think so. The structure of this proposed amendment disregards the varied and complex circum stances faced by each individual. Many may not immediately perceive the full extent of their injuries, while others may struggle to gather the necessary infor mation within the 60-day limit. I had a neighbour of mine who fell trying to get into her car in a parking lot.

And she fell, and it was at nighttime. She broke her hip and it took months for her to recover. And it wasn't just the physical injury that really played a

part in her injury. It was the emotional and mental injury that she had suffered. She was in a parking lot late at night. She was on the ground for what seemed to be a long time, and so that impacted her mental health. And things like that don't emerge necessarily right away, so we have to be very mindful of that. The implications of this amend ment could deter legitimate claims. If you're of non -compliance with such strict timelines –could lead to a chilling effect, dissuading individuals from pursuing their rightful claims. So it's an added burden onto the victim.

While the intention behind this amendment may be to protect defendants from potential prejudice, it fails to acknowledge the prejudice faced by injured parties who are unable to comply with these require - ments. This notion undermines the principle of fairness and equity within our legal system. Additionally, I have to express my concern regarding how this amendment could dis proportion- ately benefit landlords and corporations. By enabling them to dodge their responsi bilities, we risk cultivating a culture where the safety of everyday Manitobans is compromised for the gain of a few.

So this is particularly alarming in light of the PC government's previous actions, which include privatizing essential services like snowplowing and cutting back on worker protections. For example, in 2021, the 2021 sale of plow trucks in the passing of Bill 11, which reduces the time frame for work place safety complaints, exemplifies a troubling trend that directly contradicts our duty to protect the most vul nerable.

While the principle behind The Occupiers' Liability Amendment Act may be to foster account ability, we must be –we must ensure that the means of achieving this goal do not inadvertently harm those we intend to protect. Instead of imple menting a rigid 60- day notice requirement, let's consider a more flexible option that accounts for the diverse circum stances facing each individual person. We owe it to every Manitoban to create a system that prioritizes justice and safety rather than procedural hurdles.

So how the occupiers' act works right now, without the amendments: So when an individual falls or slips on a property, they can sue if they want. The owner or occupier of a property has a legal responsi - bility to ensure that people are interacting with the property are kept reasonably safe, so that an injured person would have to prove they did not do that. Property owners and occupiers become responsi- ble if they do not clear the property. This could include snow removal, chipping the ice away, using salt or sand, in an appropriate time frame.

The injured person must prove that the occupier was aware of the potential risk and failed to take the ap propriate measures to address the issue, resulting in the injury. The injured person must show they did not willingly engage in a situation that led to a fall. The amendments would add an additional requirement that the injury be– * (11:00) The Speaker: Order, please. The–when this matter is again before the House, the honour able member will have three minutes remaining. RESOLUTIONS Res. 28–Crime and Public Safety The Speaker: The hour is now 11 a.m. and the time for private members' reso lutions.

The resolu tion before us this morning is reso lution 28, Crime and

3464 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 7, 2024 Public Safety, brought forward by the honour able member for Borderland. Mr. Josh Guenter (Borderland): I move, seconded by the member for La Vérendrye (Mr. Narth), that

WHEREAS violent crime is at an all-time high under this Provincial Government; and

WHEREAS a recent urban violent crime report found that people in Winnipeg were nearly three times as likely to be robbed and twice as likely to be killed in a homicide under this failed Prov incial Government than in other major Canadian cities; and

WHEREAS there have been countless random machete attacks that have left victims with life - altering injuries, including shattered bones, slashed tendons, and irreversible scarring; and

WHEREAS there has been 56 carjackings this year, individuals attending church, work, and the grocery store have been unsuspecting victims; and

WHEREAS according to Statistics Canada, 30 per cent of all women aged 15 and older report having been sexually assaulted at least once in their lifetime since their 15th birthday; and

WHEREAS according to the Canadian Federation of Independent Busi ness' latest report, over half of Manitoba businesses have been impacted by community safety issues, including damaged property, theft, and employee/customer safety concerns; and

WHEREAS the security rebate program only saw 2% of businesses receive a rebate, while 87% of businesses were unable to even apply for the program; and

WHEREAS grocery and convenience stores have been forced to close their doors because of the increased crime and vandalism under this Provincial Govern- ment; and

WHEREAS this Provincial Government has failed to keep dangerous criminals in jail and off the streets, with no meaningful bail reform; and

WHEREAS Manitobans do not feel safe to walk around in their communities, attend their places of worship, or enter their own schools and universities. THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that the Legis- lative Assembly of Manitoba urge the provincial government to take imme diate action to address the public–the urgent public safety concerns of Manitobans, reduce violent crime and make these streets of the province safer. The Speaker: It has been moved by the honour able member for Borderland, seconded by the honour able member for La Vérendrye, THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that the Legis- lative Assembly of Manitoba urge the provincial gov- ernment to take imme diate action to address the urgent public safety concerns of Manitobans, reduce violent crime and make the streets of the province safer. Mr. Guenter: I appreciate the opportunity to rise in the House this morning to put forward this very im - portant resolution and to call on the provincial gov - ernment to do better when it comes to securing the safety and security of Manitobans, their families, their loved ones and their property. Honourable Speaker,

section 7 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms says this: everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of funda mental justice.

Section 7 guarantees the life, liberty and personal security of all Canadians. It is the most sacred responsibility of gov- ernment to ensure the security and safety of its citizens, the pro tection of its residents both from threats from outside of its borders as well as violence and crime from individuals within. And so it's the most impor tant responsibility of government to ensure the safety of our citizens, that there isn't violence being perpetrated on innocent people.

And we've seen in the now over one year that this NDP gov ernment has been in power that they have done absolutely nothing to address the crisis of crime that is happening across this province, and, in fact, they have– An Honourable Member: They've made it worse. Mr. Guenter: They have actually made it worse. And they've embarked on policies that their –they perhaps believe will make things better but are actually exacerbating the situation. Most notably–most notably, and I thought it was interesting that the Premier (Mr.

Kinew) yesterday in question period said that the root –we could all agree that the root cause of many of these crimes is drugs. And yet that very Premier in this govern ment wants to displace the underground economy and replace them and be the largest drug dealer in this province. The government wants to replace all that criminal enterprise, they want to get in on it. They want a slice of that pie.

November 7, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3465 Advocating for drug injection sites, distributing drugs, taxpayers –taking taxpayer resources, using taxpayer dollars to provide drugs to people–absolutely wrong. In fact, and the member for Swan River (Mr. Wowchuk) will, I hope, have a chance to speak to this reso lution, as well, and his mayor in Swan River has come out and said that, I would invite any politician pushing harm reduction, which is really a euphemism; it's harm injection sites; these are drug dens, a pro- drug policy that the NDP is promoti ng.

But he says, I would invite any politician pushing harm reduction as a solution to come and spend the day in Swan River and maybe even spend the night so they can see it for them selves. They would see individuals shooting up on streets and church steps. They would see needles scattered in parking lots and playgrounds, and they would see busi nesses being robbed over and over again. And, Honour able Speaker, day after day after day, members on this side of the House and the member for Brandon West (Mr.

Balcaen) gets up, our Justice critic gets up, and pleads for this govern ment to do some thing on behalf of Manitobans, and the NDP absolutely ignore those calls for action. And it's disturbing. And we heard yesterday again, the Justice critic, the member for Brandon West got up and raised the issue of needles and how that the Winnipeg Police Service has commissioned a report and found out that it would cost over –cost taxpayers $200,000 to clean up the needles in Winnipeg. And these are needles that are being purchased and provided by government, by this government.

So they are –the NDP –are perpetuating and exacerbating the crime crisis in this province. And so that is why we are here this morning, to bring these issues to light and to call on this government to change its ways and to listen to the Manitobans who ar e having to suffer. Those innocent Manitobans who wake up at 4:30 in the morning to go to work, and circumstances–a violent attack, random machete attack or theft of their property, their personal belongings–changes their life and leaves them feeling violated and scarred. That's why we're here, to represent their concerns.

Families in Manitoba are feeling more unsafe than ever before. Increased rates of violent crime and random attacks have plagued our com munities. Individuals are fearful for their livelihood, and busi - nesses have been victim to theft and vandalism. And this NDP government has failed to take action. Grocery stores, convenience stores, thrift stores, coffee shops have all closed in the last six months. There have been nearly 60 carjackings this year alone.

Manitobans–just in Winnipeg –Manitobans leaving church, delivering packages, waiting to pick up friends, all random victims of aggressive and violent carjackings. And yet this NDP government has spent months talking about a plan to address criminal safety and nothing has been released. Honourable Speaker, 50 per cent of people feel unsafe walking in broad daylight in our capital city's downtown. That's terrible. Can you imagine being a business owner in downtown Winnipeg wanting to attract customers to your establishment?

And yet you can't–not because you don't offer great service or a great product but because under this government, this NDP government, crime has been allowed to fester to the point where Winnipeggers feel unsafe visiting these establishments. That's terrible. The only solution this govern ment has put forward is to burn out police officers with overtime instead of funding permanent positions. The –this NDP government has failed to support rural com mu- nities grappling with increased rates of crime. So, Honourable Speaker, these are just a few of the very serious points that I want to bring forward.

And I really wanted to talk about some of the experiences of these Manitobans, as I say, who get up early in the morning to go to work. As the Premier (Mr. Kinew) might say, these are the people who shower twice a day –in the morning –once in the morning and once in the evening when they get home. But he's not listening. He's not listening to what they're suffering through, the theft, the random violence. So we've been reading in the media, Manitobans have, and we've been experiencing this crisis of crime. * (11:10) And I, just as I said, wanted to go through some of the recent headlines that we've seen.

A level of desperation: food program for Winnipeg youth hit by vandalism. Inner City Youth Alive have been dealing with smashed car windows but recently their organi zation's freezer was vandalized as well. With the damage to the freezer, weeks' worth of food for the Meals 4 Kids program was ruined. With the freezer and the smashed windows, they are looking at $19,000 for repairs. And believe me, the government will be nowhere to pay that bill.

3466 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 7, 2024 A pillar in this community: Winnipeg thrift store closing after 16 years due to high costs and crime. D'Arcy Arc Thrift Store is closing after 16 years of giving to their com munity. With rising in cost, increased retail theft and safety concerns for staff and customers, it became more difficult to continue their charitable outreach. Sleeping–this is also devastating, Honour able Speaker. This is terrible.

This next headline here: Sleeping U of M student attacked in her dorm: in a place where she should feel the safest, a U of M student was attacked in her dorm. The assailant broke into and assaulted the victim. The victim was able to fight the assailant off while screaming for help and police officers were called. The Speaker: Order, please. The member's time has expired. Questions The Speaker: A question period of up to 10 minutes will be held.

Questions may be addressed in the following sequence: the first question may be asked by a member from another party; any subsequent questions must follow a rotation between parties; each independent member may ask one question. And no question or answer shall exceed 45 seconds. The floor is now open for questions. MLA David Pankratz (Waverley): Honourable Speaker, the member opposite's invoked

section 7 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms in his opening remarks, yet under their govern ment, we saw an increase of 40 per cent in homicides, 39 per cent spike in firearms offences and sig nificant increases in robberies and break-ins. My question to the member opposite is this: How can they claim to defend

section 7 when their own policies over a long, dark seven and a half years left so many Manitobans unsafe, failing to protect the very security of the person that they're now so eage r to reference? Mr. Josh Guenter (Borderland): Honourable Speaker, the member for Waverley and his colleagues are now in charge. They have been in power – [interjection] The Speaker: Order. Mr. Guenter: –they–this is what they do day in and day out. This–these are the political games they play and yet Manitobans are suffering under their crime wave. It's an NDP crime wave. They–[interjection] The Speaker: Order. Mr.

Guenter: –got elected on a promise to address bail reform in 100 days, they haven't done a single thing. It's been over a year, it's been–we're going on 14 months of their gov ernment, nothing's hap- pened; 60–almost 60 carjackings this year alone. This NDP government has done absolutely nothing. Our government, in our time in office, made sure that we funded– The Speaker: The member's time has expired. Mr.

Rick Wowchuk (Swan River): I'd like to thank the member–my fellow colleague from Midland for bringing up this very, very im portant resolution that this government today has not acted upon; it is getting worse. Could the member share how crime is impacting his community? Mr. Guenter: I thank the member for Swan River – from–for Swan River for that question. Crime is impacting the entire province. We're seeing the effects of this NDP crime wave and their complete failure to deal with criminals, lock them up.

I went on a tour of busi nesses this last summer, and so many busi ness owners frustrated and residents frustrated. They have the names, the addresses of criminals, these repeat offenders, and nothing is being done. And so I say to the members opposite: build that pipeline to prison. Throw those thugs in jail, let them rot in prison and throw away the key and stand up for the victims of crime. The Speaker: Member's time has expired. MLA Pankratz: I ap preciate the member opposite reminding us that we are in power.

Manitoba's – Manitobans elected us to come in and fix the mess that they left behind, and since we've been representing the people of Manitoba, we've been making signi ficant progress in improving public safety measures. Under the PCs, again, homicide was up, robberies were up and they did nothing. My question for the member opposite is: Does he accept the critiques that he is making of his failed PC governments in the report that his reso lution references? Mr. Guenter: Honourable Speaker, the–I appreciate the comments of the member for Waverley, but he's part of a govern ment that has presided over nearly

November 7, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3467 60 carjackings in Winnipeg alone. This is Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. This isn't Somalia. [interjection] The Speaker: Order. Mr. Guenter: This is Winnipeg, and they're presiding over a third- world-style crime wave and criminal activity. I urge the members opposite: Manitobans are fed up with the crime. It's time that they put these criminals in prison and let them rot there. The Speaker: The honourable member for Brandon East (Mr. Simard).

An Honourable Member: Well, thank you, Honour- able Speaker, and you know it gives me great pleasure to stand up and talk about some thing that's very im- portant to our side of the House and neglected by the governing side of the House, and that's crime and safety for the citizens of Manitoba. I notice that the government has had to put police in overtime positions to control this crime wave, and so I ask the member for Borderland (Mr.

Guenter) and thank you for bringing this resolu tion forward: Can you share with me examples of busi nesses that have had to close down due to this increasing crime wave that is really the responsibility of the Attorney General, the Minister of Justice (Mr. Wiebe)? Thank you. Mr. Guenter: I thank the member for Brandon West (Mr.

Balcaen) for that important question, and I want to thank him for his advocacy, not only here in the House, but his time fighting crime in Brandon and across this province, for his service as a police chief and a police officer to Manitobans, and he has had a lot to contribute here in this House. Unfortunately, the Minister of Justice, the members across the way –the NDP government aren't listening and so Manitobans are suffering. And so we've seen a number of stores had to–have had to close, including Giant Tiger, nearly a dozen 7-Elevens, Starbucks and more.

These are stores that are closing, not because their business isn't profitable, but because crime has made it untenable. They cannot stay and serve Winnipeggers, and that's terrible– The Speaker: Member's time has expired.

MLA Pankratz: I ap preciate the member opposite bringing up the fine work done by the member from Brandon West in his time as the chief of police for Brandon, and I would just ask simply: How can you stand there as a colleague for Brandon West–maybe I'd ask this to th e member from Brandon West too– how does he feel about his colleagues cutting the budget to fire, to police and to law enforce ment, ultimately defunding the police? Mr. Guenter: Honourable Speaker, strange question; a $9 -million NDP cut to police services this year. Their very first budget, they cut funding.

I represent an area–there are 10 regional police services in Manitoba. I represent several of the com - munities in–[interjection] The Speaker: Order. Mr. Guenter: –my area: the Altona Police Service, as well as Morden -Winkler police services and –in the constituency of Morden- Winkler, and we increased their funding in our time in office. And I know that because I enjoyed visiting them every year and going in to hand them the cheque and take a picture–and they received genuine support from our province. I'm disappointed– The Speaker: Member's time has expired. Mr.

Wowchuk: I know the Minister of Justice is putting his hand on his forehead as he's saying: But we're trying; we're trying very hard here. But it's not happening and I appre ciate this bringing to the forefront. Can the –my colleague, the member from Borderland, share a statistic on how crime impacts Winnipeggers as a whole? * (11:20) Mr. Guenter: Again, I thank my member –my colleague, the member for Swan River (Mr. Wowchuk), for that question.

I think most–one of the–there's many devastating statistics that have come out of this NDP gov ern- ment as regards crime in Winnipeg and Manitoba, but I think this one is parti cularly disturbing–that 60 per cent of women feel unsafe walking downtown during daylight hours. That's disturbing. That is disturbing–during daylight hours. Car jackings, machete attacks, individuals being bear sprayed, these are all the things happening under this NDP government that have led to 60 per cent of women feeling unsafe walking downtown during– The Speaker: Member's time has expired. And I'd stop the clock for a moment.

3468 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 7, 2024 Introduction of Guests The Speaker: I'd just like to recog nize that we have some guests in the gallery that are only here for a short time. I would draw attention of all honour able members to the public gallery where we have students from Children of the Earth school, under the supervision of Michelle Arnauld and Tyler Neapew, and they are from the constituency of the honourable member for Point Douglas (Ms. Smith).

On behalf of all honour able members, we welcome you here today. * * * MLA Pankratz: I just want to quickly thank our Minister of Justice for doing some amazing work, also increasing the budget to law enforce ment by 28 per cent across the province–important stuff. Unlike the failed PCs, our team has a plan and we're following through on it. And we're not going to be piggy-backing off the real struggles of Manitobans to try to score political brownie points. We're doing the actual hard work of listening and making s ome progress, here in Manitoba.

My question for the member opposite is, will he and his party stop fear mongering and actually support the important bills we're bringing forward here in the Chamber? Mr. Guenter: I thank the member from Waverley for that question. What bills? They have put nothing forward. There is no justice plan. Unfortunately, Honourable Speaker, I ran through my 10 minutes there pretty quickly. I had a lot more to say. But I did want to talk about a Global News

article that came out on November 5 entitled, Tired of people being coddled: mother of Winnipeg mur der victim fed up with the system. This is the mother of man who was stabbed to death at a Winnipeg library and who says she doesn't know how to move on. She says she's tired of people being coddled. Honourable Speaker, I think the message is very clear to this government: instead of their hug-a-thug– there's no appetite for their hug-a-thug, soft-on-crime policies. It's time to put people– The Speaker: Member's time has expired. Mr.

Wayne Balcaen (Brandon West) : Again, I appreciate the op portunity to stand up and ask a question of my colleague who's brought this very im- portant resolution forward. Like the member from Waverley, I would also like to thank the Minister of Justice. He has made my job as the critic super easy. So, thank you for the efforts that you've put in making my job so easy to be a critic. So I ask the member: What is your reason for bringing this resolution forward? Mr. Guenter: I thank the member for Brandon West (Mr. Balcaen) for that question.

I represent an area that typically has been peaceful for many–for decades. Crime–yes, it happens, but we have been very blessed with low crime rates. Unfortunately–unfortunately–things are changing. And I have heard from people who, as I said, they know the addresses, they know the names of the perpetrators, of the criminals. They can report them to the police, and nothing happens. There's just repeat crime, and these folks, repeat offenders, going o ut and committing violent attacks, theft, and it leaves innocent Manitobans feeling violated and unsafe.

And that's absolutely wrong– The Speaker: Member's time has expired. And the time for question period has also expired. Debate The Speaker: The floor is open for debate. Hon. Matt Wiebe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): The naked hypocrisy on display this morning from members opposite with a resolu - tion like this is astounding –astounding, Honourable Speaker, and especially coming from a member who sat at the Heather Stefanson caucus table. He was there every single day while the previous government reduced funding across the province for law enforce - ment and made cuts that had real impacts.

But I wanted to just take a quick moment to just do a quick run- through–I know there's lots of members on our side of the House that want to talk about the important work we're doing. But I want to just lay out for the members here this morning the resolution here today and how it's a clear indictment of the previous government's record when it comes to public safety. Because we know what they did. We know that there were seven years of freezes and cuts to munici- pal funding, and that included the public safety

November 7, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3469 funding across this province. This had a serious, real impact for communities across our province. What did that mean for the City of Winnipeg, for example? What that meant was there were 55 fewer officers on the streets under the Heather Stefanson government; 55 officers lost over their tenure in office. We know that they cancelled the electronic monitoring program. Well, who did that? Who was the actual minister who gave the direction? That was Heather Stefanson. The member opposite sat around the caucus table, said: Great work, Heather Stefanson.

Thank you for doing that. We're going to cut an electronic monitoring program. And then–and then–had the audacity to go on an election campaign and put up govern ment-paid billboards to say, oh, an electronic monitoring program would be a good thing. Well, we agree, Hon- ourable Speaker. That's why we got it done. We brought that program back from the dead, from Heather Stefanson's cold, dead hands. Now, it was impor tant for us to work with com - munity and work with stakeholders who begged, came and–I'm sure the member opposite met with commu - nity activists like Sel Burrows.

I know the former minister of Justice sat down with Sel Burrows and others and heard directly from them, who said: Please bring forward some legislation on machetes; stop the scourge on our streets; stop the violence; stop the random acts of violence. And what did they say? They put their fingers in their ears and they did nothing. They did nothing, Honourable Speaker.

Now we bring this bill forward and, oh, maybe the members opposite will support it or maybe – maybe–they'll call it window dressing and they'll disrespect law enforcement and disrespect every com- munity activist who's asking for this to be done in their communities. That's what the member for Brandon West (Mr. Balcaen) said: Window dressing. Put that on the record, Honourable Speaker, because he needs to answer for those words. No action on bail reform. Oh, Justin Trudeau, Justin Trudeau. Yes, you know what?

I've got a lot of words for Justin Trudeau, and I'm happy to share every single day of the week, but what I won't do is I won't sit on my hands like the members opposite did. We know that they cut restorative justice programs. They starved the courts. Delays, cancel - lation of court dates, all under this Stefanson govern- ment. We know that they cut the training programs for provincial corrections. We–they cut the supports for inmates who want to make a better choice, who want to have a future, who have seen what the con se- quences of their actions are, and we need to get them on the right track.

These folks–well, you heard the member opposite go off, and he uses rhetoric that's straight out of Donald Trump's playbook. Well, he can have that any day of the week. We're going to work on a better plan here in Manitoba, one that recognizes the importance of being tough on crime but tough on the causes of crime at the same time. They closed the Agassiz Youth Centre. No plan for the youth that were impacted. But then–then –we had the audacity of members 'oppotis' to sit by quietly, not say a peep, while they closed the Dauphin jail.

Yes, all of a sudden, all these cuts, all of this reduction in funding for im portant in itiatives, for corrections, for law enforcement, and they said nothing. Now, what was the impact of those cuts? What was the result of those impacts and those cuts? Well, we know. We know we –because we've seen now, the data continues to roll in. It's an indictment, as I said, of every thing that they did. We look at the Macdonald-Laurier report, which shows Manitoba's homicide rate is double that of every major city in the country. And we know the rate has increased every year since 2018.

We know that in the city of Winnipeg, just in their last year, the last year of their record –this was Heather Stefanson with the member for Borderland (Mr. Guenter) sitting right next to her saying: Good job, Boss. Great work here.

You have 6,000 shoplifting incidents; a 12 per cent increase in violent crime; a 22 per cent increase in robberies; a 21 per cent increase in youth crime; a 23 per cent increase in youth violent crimes; 141 per cent increase in youth shoplifting. * (11:30) And they sat by and said: Our only solution is to reduce funding to municipalities , disrespect law en - forcement, cut funding to the courts and do absolutely nothing. This–cuts have con sequences, and the members opposite need to now take account, be accountable for what they did in their time. That's their legacy. It's all talk, it's all rhetoric.

It's lines lifting straight from Donald Trump.

3470 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 7, 2024 Well, that's fine. Members opposite can continue to do that; that's their MO. But what we're going to do on this side of the House, Honourable Speaker, we're getting to work. We're actually working on these issues. We're being honest with Manitobans about the challenges ahead. They understand this. And they understand that it's time to be tough on crime in a real sense.

That means real funding, real partnerships, but also understanding that the better that my colleague for Minister of Families (MLA Fontaine) does, the better that the Minister for Housing, Addictions and Homelessness does, the more success that the member for Education has, the Minister of Health. I can go through every single member of this team who's working hard to ensure that the work that they do ultimately helps bring down the scourge of crime we're seeing on our streets. But we're going to continue to be tough on crime. And we have specific action that we're taking.

And you think, well, of course, now they–all this tough talk, all this tough talk from the members opposite–of course they're going to be in support and I honestly–I think I've said before– I honestly sometimes give too much credit to the members opposite. Because I thought here we go, we're going to say, of course we're going to bring an Unexplained Wealth Act that's going to go after the scourge of illegal drugs in our communities, and we're going to go after those drug dealers who are bringing poison into our communities. That's why I asked for the Legislature to support in our Unexplained Wealth Act.

How could anyone – anyone speak against that? Well, there was a lot of words put on the record, in fact. In fact, I think we spent months delaying the process. Months that the members opposite stood up and obscured and tried to slow down the process. All the while I'm getting calls every day from law en forcement, from our criminal property forfeiture, from Crowns who are saying, why can't we get this–these tools in our tool kit to actually make a difference? We brought back electronic monitoring. Well – not–you know, are we support –or against. Members opposite can't even decide.

They couldn't decide when they were in gov ernment. They knew what they did. They knew they cut the program. But now they won't even stand up and say–they –maybe they support it, maybe they don't. Our security rebate, a way to bring com munity back into the conver sation. The opportunity to allow individuals, businesses to invest, bring real dollars to the table, invest in security for them selves and when it's impor tant to protect personal property, they're willing to step up.

But what I love about this, and of course members opposite haven't talked to anybody, they don't have any sense of how this program is working. What they should know is, I hear on the back end people saying not only am I protecting myself, I appreciate that I'm protecting my neighbour. I appre - ciate that I'm protecting the business in my com mu- nity. I appreciate that my security system that protects my personal property is part of a larger solution. They cannot understand this, Honourable Speaker, because they–they're short-sighted.

We're saying bring every- body together, everybody in com munity to work together to public safety. That's why we did that with law enforcement, with individuals and with com mu- nity across the province. Now, I have very little time, but what I do want to say is, is that the machete bill–I mentioned it earlier– the unbelievable stance of the previous govern ment. We have the former minister of Justice on record going out and saying, well, there, maybe thi s is going to be a burden to busi ness, or maybe this will be a, you know, this will be a challenge for people to adhere to a law like this.

I'm not bringing it in, he says. He says, I'm not bringing any disrespect. [interjection] Sel Burrows. He says, I'm not going to listen to them. I'm not going to listen to community. Every member opposite now has a chance to show their mettle. To show that the partisanship doesn't matter. And what they can do is they can support legislation like this. They can start standing with community. Start standing with us. You know, there's a lot that we can agree on, right? There's a lot of ways that we can find part nerships.

But what we've seen is them instead obstructing, bringing forward shallow slogans r ather than doing the hard work. We're going to do the work, Honourable Speaker, we're going to get it done. And we're going to start working on public safety across this province. Mr. Wayne Balcaen (Brandon West): You know what, the rhetoric coming from there is pure, pure joy for me to stand up and talk about here. So the Minister of Justice (Mr. Wiebe) talks about the failed policies on this side, but, you know, I was happy to attend the retail crime summit, the retail crime summit that had 400 people there, Honourable Speaker.

And what slide comes up from this Minister of Justice? The retail crime summit, packed with

November 7, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3471 people–the Justice modernization strategy. And it quotes that, and I was looking at that, saying, that looks very familiar to me. So I looked back, and do you know who wrote the Justice modernization strategy in 2018? Then-Justice minister Heather Stefanson. So I'm assuming, Hon - ourable Speaker, that the Justice modernization strategy is so modern, is so forward-thinking that even a year into his term, the Justice Minister is still using it because it is so modern and so impactful on Manitoba society.

Thank you to our minister at that time for bringing such forward-thinking strategies forward to be used a year after the term. I'm still waiting for the Manitoba NDP strategy, and I keep hearing it's coming; it's coming. We're a year and three months into the term. When is it coming? Christmas is coming, as well, Honourable Speaker. It'll be here probably well before the NDP strategy on crime. Statistics are wonderful things, at times, and I've listened to this Justice Minister quote many times statistics from the Brandon Police Service when I was chief of police there.

And what he doesn't realize is that those statistics keep increasing year after year, and this year has been no less onerous on the people of Brandon and Manitoba. So I took a snippet from October of 2023, when this govern ment took office, and this failed Justice Minister took the helm, and it moves forward to October of 2024, and you know what I found out? Know what I found out? Robbery has been up under his watc h in Brandon 30 per cent. Yes. Arsons, they've increased by 14 per cent. Theft over $5,000 up 86 per cent. Possession of drugs –remember how tough on crime and tough on drugs this minister is?

Honourable Speaker, 18 per cent increase on possession of drugs; 77 per cent increase in trafficking of drugs. And just to end it off on the driving offences–because our roads seem to be at issue, too, and everything else–dangerous operation of a vehicle up 15 per cent. Now that's just one year over year. I could've went back like this minister does and taken it from 2021 or 2022 and made these huge numbers grow, make these messages like 190 per cent and 400 per cent, but you know what?

I want to look at reality and thes e numbers speak to what's happened since this failed Justice Minister and the NDP policies on crime have set into place since October 3 of 2023. And you know what? And he talks today about bail reform. The audacity to talk about bail reform and saying that we're out of touch. I've had many, many conversations with Crown attorneys, and they were absolutely appalled with being challenged and said that this gov ernment put out a policy directive to them.

A policy that they've been following for over 100 years, protecting the com munity, making sure that the community was safe, and this Justice Minister has the audacity to say, we're making policy on it and we're going to say that they can protect the community in any of their briefings that they bring before the court. Absolutely insultive, and I'm thinking that this Minister of Justice is out of touch with the people that he supervises. * (11:40) As a matter of fact, when the Premier (Mr. Kinew) called out defence lawyers and the obligation of the Attorney General (Mr.

Wiebe) is to protect the justice system–the integrity of the justice system, he sat silent. Not a word was said; no apology, no challenge to his boss. Now what –maybe he was bullied into it. Maybe he was told he had to be –stand the line. I know that the bullying happens within the NDP caucus. I've heard it. It's a toxic, toxic environ- ment and I know it's difficult. I also know that some of our other members have many words to put on the record, Hon ourable Speaker, so I will end it there. And thank you for the opportunity. Hon.

Lisa Naylor (Minister of Consumer Protection and Government Services): It's quite disturbing to understand that a previous chief of police could only think of less than five minutes' worth of things to say about public safety and crime. But I guarantee you, I've got 10 in me. I want to start with just identifying that I know a thing or two about crime and public safety. As a woman, as a queer person, as someone who has lived downtown in two major cities since 1983, I do know a thing or two about crime and public safety.

This caucus has sig nificant represen tation from women, Indigenous women, other BIPOC people, queer people, all of whom are more at risk of crime and challenges to their safety than many other people and–than many people on the opposite side of the Chamber. So we know a thing or two about publ ic safety.

3472 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 7, 2024 We also have an in credibly dedi cated Justice Minister guiding the de partment through im portant changes to public safety and to addressing crime; things that languished and got worse and worse under the previous government for the past seven and a half years. I'm also going to speak a little bit about the fact that this bill has been intro duced by the MLA from Borderland.

As I identified my own, personal relation- ship with risks related to crime, as a woman, as a downtown-living person, as a queer person, I'm also going to identify that the MLA who introduced this bill has personally contributed to making this province less safe. While the legis lative assist ant for Health, the MLA for Borderland was removed from his role because of his failure to support COVID-19 vaccines. You know, over 2,000 people died of COVID-19 from 2019 to–2020-2022. But this member worked against public health and public safety –actively worked against public safety.

The same member was in full support of the convoys that blocked trade to our country and made our downtown dangerous for local residents. During the blockade, I heard from residents every day who were fearful of Nazi flags, the anti -public health and anti-government protest keeping this com munity awake late at night. Some residents were fearful due to the threats they experienced of racism and homophobia. And this member personally supported that downtown–that, basically, crime that was taking place to our downtown and to our member.

This member also personally made members of this House less safe when he failed to support basic human rights legislation for transgender Manitobans, and thousands of queer Manitobans got the message loud and clear that according to this member, their lives don't matter. He also ran for re-election under the premise that trans kids should not have human rights, and that murdered Indigenous women, victims of a heinous crime, a brutal serial killer, do not deserve to come home, do not deserve to have the compassion of all Manitobans. This member and his entire team has zero credibility on public safety.

And I can go on and on with all of the errors and inaction that took place under their govern ment. I –well, maybe I just will. I was going to start to talk about some of the great thi ngs we've been doing, but I feel like maybe I need to just drive this point home a little further. You know, in 2022, crime rose under the previous failed PC govern ment.

There was a 44 per cent increase in attempted murders; a 40 per cent increase in homicides; a 39 per cent increase in firearms offences; 26 per cent increase in vehicle thefts; a 21 per cent increase in robberies; an 8 per cent increase in sexual assaults; a 19 per cent increase in breaking and entering; and a 13 per cent increase in frauds. No Manitobans were safe under the PCs' watch. There was also a net loss of 55 Winnipeg police officers. You know, under the current Minister of Justice (Mr. Wiebe), some significant gains have been made.

As an MLA who represents a com munity that has really struggled with retail thefts, with a lot of property crimes, I'm very happy with the changes that we have seen in our com munity since special programs have been brought in to support and address retail theft, in particular. There have been dozens of tailored safety presen- tations with retailers; 224 fines have been issued. There has been almost 9,000 individual engagements with retailers and people in hot spots of this city. There's been 769 total arrests, including people with unrelated warrants, and over $63,000 in products have been recovered.

These changes make such a difference for the small businesses in my com munity, some of whom were really, really bearing the brunt of retail crime, more so than in other communities. I'm so grateful for the work our gov ernment is putting in to impro ve relations between retailers and, you know, adding provincial funding to WPS in order to make this happen. I'm also really grateful for the fact that this minister is listening. He is really taking seriously public crime and safety. He's spent a great deal of time travelling around the province, hearing from Manitobans.

You know, it's awful if you've been the victim of a crime. It is awful for any family member of any loved one, of someone who's been a victim of a crime. One thing I appreciate about this Justice Minister is his compassion, his ability to sit and hear–and every story has an impact, which is why he's been hard at work over the past year to improve public safety in our province.

November 7, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3473 We've advanced several initiatives that crack down on crime and the causes of crime, and we've followed through on some of our key commitments to help keep com munities safer. We brought in The Unexplained Wealth Act, which cracks down on drug traffickers. We've imple mented a security system rebate program for families and small businesses. And probably most im portant of all, at least–I'm a little biased–I really ap preciate mental health workers; so having more mental health workers to work alongside law enforcement.

Certainly any of us who live in the downtown core of the city understand how much worse people are off, how–have been off because of the PC govern- ment's cuts to mental health services; because of their refusal to deal with the crisis of drugs, of addict ion; their refusal to meet people where they are at, with supervised consump tion sites, with sup portive services for people who have a drug problem.

So their seven and a half years of inaction has led to so much more of the activities that I observe on a daily basis, because of the actions that they did not take–that they refused to take when they were in government. But we have done so much more. We've brought in the long-bladed weapons control act. Again, we've been supporting the police service with additional funds.

The public safety summits have given an opportunity for people to feel heard; and, with the aid of the Criminal Property Forfeiture Fund, we're supporting rural and Northern communities in purchasing important safety equipment and advancing several community initiatives. * (11:50) Again, I think that we all know that this resolution hasn't come from a good place. It hasn't come from a place of genuine commit ment and desire for Manitobans to be–feel safer.

Anyone who would want Manitobans to feel safer would support public health initiatives, would want all Manitobans to feel safer, would want Indigenous women to feel that they matter, would want queer kids and trans family–trans people to know that they matter. They would want to feed children, because when you feed children, you have the oppor tunity to keep kids in school and much better chance that they are going to grow up and have a good life and not get sidelined into criminal activities or just be lost to the street and be victims of crime, which is usually what happens to people on the street.

So on–with those last words, I will take my seat. Thank you, Honourable Speaker. Mr. Rick Wowchuk (Swan River): Random–okay. Random, unprovoked, aimless–these are a few words to describe the crimes that have been taking place in our dear city. I quote this from September 2024, urban violent crime report: violent crime in Winnipeg is high, rising and showing no signs of slowing down. We are more likely to be robbed and victims of homicide now under this govern ment than ever before. In my town of Swan River, with only 4,000 residents, crime has gone up by 14 per cent and 28 per cent in violent crime.

It is also more than six times the national average and almost four times Manitoba's provincial Crime Severity Index. The Work & Casual World's store owner, who has been a long- time fixture of the Swan River business community, said, and I quote, gets shaky every time a customer knocks on the door. After being a victim of armed robbery, she no longer feels safe in her own store, using measures as locking the door and putting up a please knock to enter sign, like so many other businesses in our small community. Residents are on edge and are fearing for their safety.

Not only is there a sense of security loss, but the cost of surveillance–[interjection] and the cost of surveillance, and how is this government going to deal with it? [interjection] Well, we'll just send another box of needles to Swan River– The Speaker: Order. [interjection] Order. [interjection] Order. Order. First off, I'd call the honour able Minister of Families (MLA Fontaine) to order, and then I would call the bench on the opposi tion side to order. Parti - cularly when the Speaker is standing, everybody else is supposed to quit talking, and parti cularly, quit hollering back and forth. Mr.

Wowchuk: From vandalism to theft and the scarring machete attacks, none of this legis lation proposed by this govern ment shows any dent in the crime rate. Small businesses are shutting down that are meant to give back to their community. This Minister of Justice (Mr. Wiebe) has failed, this Premier (Mr. Kinew) has failed, this minister as Health failed, and the only reason the Minister of Edu- cation isn't given a failing grade is because she's lowered the standard for teachers. And with that, I will leave it. Thank you.

3474 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 7, 2024 MLA Billie Cross (Seine River): Thank goodness we have someone from this bench with common sense to finish today off. So I guess I'll start by saying that I know I'm going to be heckled no matter what I say because I'm a woman in this caucus. Members opposite have strategically been trying to shut down the voices of women in our caucus. They don't want to hear what we have to say, so they are constantly heckling and name-calling. They lack leadership on the opposite side of the aisle.

They have a leader who resorts to name-calling when he can't debate because he doesn't know what to say. Members opposite accuse us of being illiterate, now they're saying that we have no credibility when it comes to crime and safety. Well, let me tell you about that. We have much more– The Speaker: Order, please. When this matter is again before the House, the honourable member –[interjection] The Speaker is standing. When this matter is again before the House, the honourable member for Seine River (MLA Cross) will have nine minutes remaining.

DEBATE ON SECOND READINGS– PUBLIC BILLS (Continued) Bill 223–The Indigenous Veterans Day Act (Commemoration of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended) The Speaker: The hour being 11:55 a.m. in accordance with rule 24(7), I am interrupting proceedings to proceed with the deferred division that was requested during last Tuesday, private members' business, on second reading of bill 233, the Indigenous veterans day act, commemoration of days, weeks and months act amended. Recorded Vote The Speaker: So accordingly, call in the members.

The question before the House is the passage of Bill 223, second reading, The Indigenous Veterans Day Act (Com memoration of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended). Division A RECORDED VOTE was taken, the result being as follows: Ayes Balcaen, Bereza, Blashko, Brar, Bushie, Byram, Cable, Chen, Compton, Cook, Cross, Dela Cruz, Devgan, Ewasko, Fontaine, Goertzen, Guenter, Jackson, Johnson, Kennedy, King, Kostyshyn, Lagassé, Loiselle, Maloway, Marcelino, Moroz, Moses, Moyes, Narth, Naylor, Nesbitt, Oxenham, Pankratz, Perchotte, Piwniuk, Redhead, Sandhu, Schott, Schuler, Simard, Smith, Schmidt, Wharton, Wiebe, Wowchuk.

Clerk (Mr. Rick Yarish): Ayes, 46; Nays, 0. The Speaker: I declare the motion passed. Accordingly, then, the House is adjourned and stands–[interjection] No? I almost gave you a break. The hour being past noon, the House is recessed and stands recessed until 1:30 today.

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, November 7, 2024 CONTENTS ORDERS OF THE DAY PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS Concurrence and Third Readings–Public Bills Bill 217–The Men's Mental Health Awareness Week Act (Commemoration of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended) Lagassé 3453 Debate on Second Readings– Public Bills Bill 203–The Occupiers' Liability Amendment Act Moses 3454 Sandhu 3455 Simard 3456 Devgan 3459 Chen 3461 Oxenham 3462 Resolutions Res. 28–Crime and Public Safety Guenter 3464 Questions Pankratz 3466 Guenter 3466 Wowchuk 3466 Balcaen 3467 Debate Wiebe 3468 Balcaen 3470 Naylor 3471 Wowchuk 3473 Cross 3474 Debate on Second Readings– Public Bills (Continued) Bill 223–The Indigenous Veterans Day Act (Commemoration of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended) 3474

The Legislative Assembly of Manitoba Debates and Proceedings are also available on the Internet at the following address: http://www.manitoba.ca/legislature/hansard/hansard.html

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Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	43-1-85a
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	43rd 1st hansardpdf 85a.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
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