Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Members' Statements; Statements by Ministers — 27 March 2013 (47th General Assembly, 2nd Session, Vol. XLVII No. 3)

2013-03-27

Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)

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March

27, 2013 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Vol.

XLVII No. 3

The House met at 2:00 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Wiseman): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

Today I want to welcome to the galleries Mr. Walter Lawlor. Mr. Lawlor is a

recent recipient of the Queen's Jubilee Medal. Welcome, Sir, to our gallery.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: I also want to welcome Mayor Grant Burry of New-Wes-Valley,

together with Councillor Winston Perry and Citizens Committee Chair Reverend

George Kean.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: Today we will have members' statements from the Member for

the District of Conception Bay South, by leave; the Member for Signal Hill

Quidi Vidi; the Member for the District of The Straits White Bay North; the

Member for the District of St. John's East; the Member for the District of St.

John's South; and the Member for the District of Cartwright L' Anse au Clair.

The Member for the District of Conception Bay South, by leave.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Does the member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. FRENCH: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to inform my hon. colleagues about

an exceptional individual from my district who was named Conception Bay South

2013 Citizen of the Year. Earlier this month, I had the pleasure of attending

the Conception Bay South Lions Club Charter Night where an award was presented

to Ms Mary Holloway.

Mary has volunteered her services to a variety of social programs to assist

her community. She is currently a member of the Special Olympics Newfoundland

Board of Directors, a long-time volunteer coach with the Special Olympics since

1999, cancer volunteer driver, and a volunteer with the Retired Teachers

Association.

She has also volunteered with the provincial summer games in Conception Bay

South, as well as various church and community organizations. Mary is a

well-known former teacher in CBS. Her methods of teaching and vibrant

personality are fondly remembered by many of her former students. Mary has many

valuable skills that continue to drive her desire to promote Special Olympics

programming in our Province.

I congratulate Mary for her commitment and achievements and ask all hon.

members to join with me in recognizing her contribution to her community and to

her Province.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Member for Signal Hill Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I stand today to recognize a wonderful initiative at Virginia Park Elementary

School.

Virginia Park, with their continued commitment to literacy development, has

implemented a preschool literacy program that focuses on the academic and social

development of the child. The eight-week Launch into Literacy Program, open to

all the Kinderstart children in the Virginia Park community, has been a huge

success. I congratulate Mr. Rodney Drover and his staff on this great

initiative.

The focus on literacy at this school is reflected in another recent

accomplishment at Virginia Park Elementary, a program named Storytime. Grade 3

student Kyle Budgell has written a delightful story called Whoops and Wahoo ,

which was initially shared with the school body. Kyle is now a published writer.

His piece is an on-line digital story which can be checked out at the FlipSnack

site.

This story is an example of the creativity and imagination that are alive in

our students and what can happen when there is support for them in our school

system.

I encourage the hon. members to search the Web site FlipSnack and take a few

minutes to explore the imagination of one of our very creative Grade 3 students.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for The Straits White Bay North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MITCHELMORE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Credit unions are flexible and recognize the wealth of creativity, ingenuity,

and knowledge in our rural region to advance development in our economy.

On behalf of the District of The Straits White Bay North, it is truly a

pleasure to share in the success of the Eagle River Credit Union with a branch

located in St. Anthony and many more throughout Labrador and the Great Northern

Peninsula. Credit unions help communities advance in ways that are impossible

with the limited policies of the big five financial institutions.

With the closure of the only commercial bank on the South Coast of Labrador,

the people were left scrambling. It was through co-operation with the Labrador

Fisherman's Union Shrimp Company and commitment from the community members that

Eagle River Credit Union was born.

The United Nations declared 2012 the International Year of the Co-operative.

It is exciting to see this member organization which upon amalgamation will have

over 7,500 members, fifty employees, and assets of $115 million.

The Eagle River Credit Union is a model many other communities could

replicate. I am proud to say, pending membership approval; I will be one of the

newest owners.

To all those involved, Bravo!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MURPHY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to honour an outstanding volunteer.

Walter Lawlor was nominated for the Queen's Jubilee Medal by the Parkinson

Society of Newfoundland and Labrador, and presented with that distinction at the

society's 2012 Christmas social.

A noted amateur athlete, Walter used to run the Tely 10, and continues his

training even in the face of Parkinson's disease. The owners of the gym he

trains at saw the benefits of exercise for people with Parkinson's, and

impressed with Walter's determination, instituted Train the Trainer, a

fundraiser which this year brought in $6,000 for the Parkinson society.

Walter is more than aware of the value of fundraising. In addition to his

annual commitment to Train the Trainer, for several years he was the official

Coin Box Collector, collecting all the money from dozens of coin boxes within

the City of St. John's.

Walter writes Surfing for a Cure, a

summary current research into

Parkinson's. It is one of the most popular features in The Prattle , the

magazine of the Newfoundland and Labrador Parkinson's community.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all hon. members to join me in saluting the irrepressible

spirit of Mr. Walter Lawlor, Queen's Jubilee Medal recipient.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South.

MR. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to recognize the volunteers at The Eric St./McKay St. Community

Centre which has been bringing the community together through the organization

of many events and programs to area residents.

Brenda Denief and Myrtle Mitchell are amongst the volunteers. These two

individuals were recognized by the City of St. John's in 2011 with the volunteer

of the year award. Myrtle was again recognized by Vibrant Communities for her

volunteer efforts in 2012.

Some of the events that the community centre and its volunteers have offered

which create a greater community spirit and create a much better neighbourhood

for residents are the annual events to celebrate Canada Day, Christmas, and

Easter. They have also held annual neighbourhood cleanups in July, and they host

a weekly drop-in for tea, amongst other events. They have an annual campaign to

provide back-to-school supplies for area children.

The community centre has hosted healthy cooking classes and has exercise

equipment available for residents to use. They also host regular bingo and card

games. This is truly a community centre and is a fine example of how the work of

volunteers can help build strong and healthy neighbourhoods.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to recognize and congratulate Ms Hayley Flynn of Forteau,

Labrador. She was recently presented with the Rumbolt Inspiration & Education

Award for perseverance at school despite many adverse events in her life.

Hayley is the daughter of Ms Norma Flynn and the late Todd Saulter. She lost

her dad in a tragic accident as an infant and was diagnosed with leukemia as a

toddler. She then lost the only father figure in her life, her grandfather.

Through her battle with cancer and the extreme grief of losing those you love

around you, Hayley completed her kindergarten year at home because of a weak

immune system, and then after her last treatment went on to return to public

school.

She is now a very active and happy teenager. She participates in fundraising

work for children's charities and organizes events such as the Janeway Telethon,

Children's Wish Foundation, and especially the Terry Fox Foundation. She is also

active in her local church.

Hayley has always had a positive attitude and a great sense of humour. She

studies hard and she is an inspiration to her classmates and her friends. She is

also a role model, not only to her peers, but to her community.

I ask members to join me in paying tribute to a remarkable young woman, and

congratulating her, Ms Hayley Flynn of Labrador Straits Academy.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Business and Rural

Development.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HUTCHINGS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise in this hon. House today to highlight a $6.3 million

investment in Budget 2013 for rural broadband.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HUTCHINGS: This investment, over two years, will further our work

with partners to advance the Rural Broadband Initiative and improve the

Province's telecommunications environment.

Including the funding in Budget 2013, the provincial government's investment

in broadband infrastructure, mostly in rural Newfoundland and Labrador, is now

over $35 million since 2003 and has, to date, leveraged more than $116 million

from other sources for a total investment of $151 million.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HUTCHINGS: Strategic investments of public funds and innovative

partnerships with both wireless and wired providers have been the cornerstone to

enhancing innovation and telecommunication in all regions of the Province. This

includes a partnership with an exciting new local company, Great Northern

Wireless, which will be delivering service to communities in the Province.

Through another partnership with Burgeo Broadcasting Systems and Ramea

Communications, the provincial government has successfully delivered upgraded

services to Ramea, Grey River, and Franois. Samuel Fiander, President of Ramea

Broadcasting Company, has said: "Our combined efforts have established a

high-speed Internet system and our subscribers are delighted with the outcome."

Success in rural broadband using a variety of technologies, such as fibre,

wireless, and satellite, has indeed been impressive. With the announcement

earlier this month of a major investment in Phase II of the Rural Broadband

Initiative, access to high-speed Internet will increase to more than 500

communities throughout the Province, up from just 114 communities in 2003. This

will bring broadband access to 89 per cent of the Island and 95 per cent of

Labrador.

We are also working with Nalcor to look at solutions for Labrador's South

Coast and other areas of the Province, using fibre that will accompany the

Muskrat Falls Transmission Line. Building our fibre network enables us to

capitalize on other opportunities, in terms of the business community; for

example, our work in building the trans-gulf fibre optic network led to TELE

Greenland selecting Newfoundland and Labrador as its gateway connection to North

America's communications industry.

Mr. Speaker, broadband access is a key component of the Province's innovation

infrastructure, and we are committed to bringing that access to previously

unserved rural communities and regions. Economic growth, diversification, and

sustainability are tied directly to effective telecommunications. Our commitment

remains strong as we drive rural economic development in our great Province.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.

MR. BENNETT: Mr. Speaker, this really is a good-news story from the

government.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BENNETT: If it was anything but a good- news story, obviously I would

say otherwise, but this is definitely a good-news story, having pressed

government for a couple of years now to reach out further with the broadband

initiative. This is a good-news story.

Part of the role of Opposition is, when the government gets something right,

to push them even further and faster. That is what I would like to do here. I

would like to, Mr. Speaker, let the minister know that there has been such

uptake in these small companies that these small companies cannot handle the

work. They have created an instant backlog of so many people who want to do

business with these small companies, one of whom has a partner in my district.

I would really encourage the minister to press on with the initiative of the

small companies and get it to go further and faster. Other than that I would

say: good job, Minister.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for The Straits White Bay North.

MR. MITCHELMORE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I too would like to thank the minister for an advance copy of his statement.

A century ago we were leaders in telecommunications with Marconi, but today

we lag behind the technological times. The first RBI, with $7 million of

taxpayer money

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. MITCHELMORE: provided just twenty communities with service. The

recent round included wireless, more than double the communities at a fraction

of the cost.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. MITCHELMORE: Hundreds of cities and rural regions across North

America are adapting wireless service to provide open access to use Wi-Fi in

response to cellular dead zones and community broadband Internet. This

infrastructure is cost-effective and should be owned by communities as revenue

generators when corporations claim no business case. Let us be more innovative.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the minister of Advanced Education and Skills and

Acting Minister Responsible for the Status of Women.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS SHEA: Mr. Speaker, I rise in this hon. House today to acknowledge the

Inuit Women's Gathering, a successful event made possible by the inspiring

efforts of Inuit women working to support their advancement. From February 24 to

27, approximately thirty-five Inuit women attended the Inuit Women's Gathering

held in Nain, which included women from five Inuit communities within

Nunatsiavut, as well as Upper Lake Melville and other parts of the Province.

The meeting provided an opportunity for Inuit women to discuss and learn

about the importance of healthy relationships, physical and mental wellness, how

to run for elected office, and how to access victim services. Attendees also

identified priority areas important to advancing the status of Inuit women.

During the gathering, attendees heard from extraordinary Inuit women,

including Frances Williams, the first female Inuit president of the Labrador

Inuit Association; Patricia Kemuksigak, the current Minister of Health and

Social Development and the Minister Responsible for the Status of Women with

Nunatsiavut Government; Charlotte Wolfrey, the AngajukKk for Rigolet; and Aaju

Peter, a lawyer and sealskin clothing designer. These female Inuit leaders

shared personal experiences with the group as well as their expertise on

balancing work and family responsibilities.

I would like to congratulate Inuit elder Andrea Flowers on winning the first

Inuit Woman of the Year Award, which was presented at the meeting by the

Nunatsiavut Government's Status of Women office. Mrs. Flowers, also known as

Aunt Joy, is a well-respected elder of Hopedale and has played a key role in the

preservation of Inuit culture and tradition.

Through Budget 2013, our government will continue to support Inuit women

through our Inuit Women's Capacity Building Project, which will also allow

additional workshops for Inuit women to be developed and held in Nunatsiavut. In

addition to this, a Facebook page called Knowledge is Empowerment provides

information on programs and services, as well as tips on personal development

skills and has proven to be an effective tool.

Once again, Mr. Speaker, I congratulate the Inuit women of Nunatsiavut and

the Nunatsiavut Government on a success conference.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am certainly pleased today to stand and to share in the acknowledgment of

the Inuit Women's Conference that was held in Nain in February and to know that

it was indeed a success.

Any time that you can bring together volunteers in communities who are

reaching out and supporting others in their community, any time you can bring

them together to share their experiences, their successes and their challenges

as women and as leaders in their community, it is very important.

Mr. Speaker, a few weeks ago my colleague for Torngat Mountains did

congratulate Andrea Flowers, or as she is commonly known by local people as Aunt

Joy, on receiving the Inuit Woman of the Year Award from the Nunatsiavut

Government's Status of Women.

I think it is worth acknowledging the fact that the Nunatsiavut Government

has established this award. It certainly shows that they have created it not

only to recognize the work of Inuit women in their communities, but also to

recognize the challenges that many of these women face while they are delivering

their services in their communities. It is not easy.

Oftentimes, in areas of this Province, where you have paid people who are

answering suicide hotlines or on the front lines of dealing with domestic

disputes and family violence in homes and throughout the community, people are

being paid. In a lot of these small communities, these volunteers are doing that

every single day and it is not easy; it is very challenging. It provides a great

deal of stress in their own lives and in their own family's lives to be able to

carry out those responsibilities.

Any time that they can come together, they can share their ideas, they can

support each other, it makes their network stronger, it makes the services that

they provide in these communities better, and therefore all people can benefit.

I do hope, Mr. Speaker, that the Inuit Women's Capacity Building Project that

was announced in the Budget yesterday will go a long way to benefiting the Inuit

women, the Inuit families, and the Inuit people in Northern Labrador. The

success of that program will certainly mean the success for a lot of people in

those communities.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Member for St. John's Centre.

MS ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to thank the minister for an advance copy of her statement. I

would like to congratulate the Inuit women, President Sarah Leo, and the

Nunatsiavut Government for organizing such an important and worthy event.

Congratulations, too, to all the participants and to Andrea Flowers on being the

first recipient of the Inuit Woman of the Year Award.

Inuit women are taking leadership in designing how their communities develop.

I would like to point out that the Nunatsiavut Government recently released

their housing strategy, something this government could well learn from.

Once again, Mr. Speaker, I would like us all to join in saying bravo to Aunt

Joy.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Oral Questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Official Opposition.

MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Yesterday, government brought down a terrible Budget with over 1,000 job cuts

and over half a billion dollar deficit, a deficit that just forty-two days ago

was just $1.6 billion.

I ask the Premier: How could you miss $1 billion in just a few days?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we are very pleased with the Budget that we delivered yesterday

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: a responsible Budget that is built on three

pillars: efficient government and efficient management, protection of vital

programs, and a pathway to a sustainable future. That is what good governance is

all about and that is what this government is all about.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Official Opposition.

MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Well, it is clear this government has no idea how to accurately budget. They

missed 8 million barrels of oil. Mr. Speaker, it can only be one of two things:

it was either deliberate or it was poor management.

So I ask the Premier: What is it? How did you miss the 8 million barrels of

oil?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We receive oil production projections from the C-NLOPB upon whom we have to

rely for these numbers in January and June of each year. In January of this

year, Mr. Speaker, numbers came in, and as a result of the way the numbers were

framed, there appeared to be an anomaly there. Officials in the Department of

Finance started digging into that. The C-NLOPB went back and looked at it. That

is how we found the 8 million barrels of oil.

What it was, was due diligence, Mr. Speaker. It was in fact great work on the

part of the officials in the Department of Finance. They deserve credit for

finding 8 million barrels of oil, which contributed another $265 million to our

economy.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Official Opposition.

MR. BALL: The issue that I am talking about is the accuracy of the

Budget. We should not have missed that in the beginning, I say, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, as recently as this morning people were given notice that they

no longer have a job and we know there are more to come, people with families,

people with mortgages, and people with bills to pay.

I ask the Premier: Is this really the respectful way to treat people?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is indeed unfortunate, the situation in which we find ourselves.

Unfortunately, from our perspective and from the Province's perspective, our

expenditures had outgrown our revenues, Mr. Speaker, so we had to make choices.

We listened to the people of this Province in the pre-Budget consultations.

Health care and education, Mr. Speaker, were priorities in which they would not,

and did not want to tolerate any reduction in services.

So, we made those our priorities during the Budget. Unfortunately, that does

result in layoffs, Mr. Speaker. Again, there will be 485 people laid off in the

core public service and approximately 450 people in agencies, boards and

commissions for a total of 935 people.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Official Opposition.

MR. BALL: Mr. Speaker, what I am talking about is the respectful way we

treated people. There are people getting pink slips in their mailboxes. There

are people this morning their supervisors are being called in. They had no

idea this was happening until they heard about it in the Budget yesterday. That

is not a respectful and a professional way to treat people.

Mr. Speaker, government printed a glossy mail out here and it is called: Five

Things You Need to Know about Budget 2013. Nowhere in this mail out does it say

1,600 jobs have been cut, school boards are amalgamated, hiring freezes are

continuing, services are reduced and the fees are going up.

I ask the Premier: Why are you presenting a very limited picture of what the

Budget really is? Why did you deliberately leave out job cuts, service cuts, and

looming deficits?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I find it unfortunate that the Leader of the Official Opposition, whom I have

respect for, would start misquoting numbers. He is talking about 1,600 layoffs.

He knows better, or he should know better, Mr. Speaker.

I indicated there are 485 layoffs in the core public service, Mr. Speaker,

450 in agencies, boards and commissions. That is 935. It is not appropriate for

the member opposite to be fear mongering and trying to incite fear in the people

of this Province, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Official Opposition.

MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am in no way fear mongering. When you add EAS employees who have been gone

as a result of these Budget actions as a matter of fact, many people in this

Province are predicting it is much higher than that. Already today we are

hearing about ABE workers, Adult Basic Education employees who may not even be

included. I believe the numbers will be much higher than that.

Mr. Speaker, tucked away in the Budget under the Department of Finance is a

$90 million line item that last year was $500,000 and nothing was spent.

I ask the Premier: Why have you increased the budget from $500,000 to $90

million? Where are you planning to spend this money?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I have no idea what the member opposite is talking about, but I will take the

opportunity to talk about the previous question, Mr. Speaker. The deficits we

have been upfront with the people of this Province.

After becoming the Finance Minister on January 16, Mr. Speaker, I became

aware that the deficit that was looming was much larger than we had earlier

predicted. That is when we started doing all of the work, Mr. Speaker, in trying

to identify what the real numbers were in relation to oil. We also, Mr. Speaker,

started looking at other issues, such as mining taxes.

When you look at it all, what happened, Mr. Speaker, in a matter of a couple

of months, through great work on the part of department officials, we managed to

reduce the deficit by $1 billion. Mr. Speaker, that is an enormous feat, and it

is one which I would suggest they should be given credit for; however, the

deficit is still $560 million.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Official Opposition.

MR. BALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This is a government document, Newfoundland and Labrador is right on it. It

is in the Department of Finance, page 3.7, and it is under Financial Assistance.

It is very simple, last year $500,000, page 3.7.

I ask the minister: This year it is $90,500,000, clearly we must know where

$90 million is going to be spent in this Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Mr. Speaker, I am looking at the Estimates. I am assuming

the member opposite is speaking about the Estimates. I do not see what he is

talking about, so again I will take the opportunity to go back to his previous

question, Mr. Speaker.

What has happened in this Budget process is during the pre-Budget

consultation, which we carried on throughout the Province, we said to people you

know there are going to be reductions. Where do you think or what should we do?

What is most important to you, Mr. Speaker?

What is important to the people of this Province are health care and

education, especially. I have been provided with the Loans, Advances and

Investments and what I will say to the members opposite is that this is a good

news story which will become clear in the upcoming weeks.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.

MR. BENNETT: Budget 2013 casts a dark shadow on education in this

centralized location will mean less of a voice for all communities.

I ask the minister: Was this cut based on a consultant's review, or was this

another haphazard move by a desperate government?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, there is a fact that we need to realize. There

are 14,000 less students in this Province now; 17 per cent less students than

was there in 2004. Mr. Speaker, look at our commitment to education in this

Budget: no cuts to class sizes.

The Premier was very adamant: no change to class caps; no change to special

education. Inclusive education supports continue. Itinerant education supports

continue, Mr. Speaker. No cuts our commitment is strong and firm to the

education system in this Province, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.

MR. BENNETT: Mr. Speaker, unlike the minister, no one sees the

destruction of school boards as a great step forward. Most see it as a backwards

step.

The January 2013 Memorial University report on school governance across

Canada concluded school boards are essential to maintaining a meaningful and

sustainable public school system. That is why most jurisdictions have school

boards.

I ask the minister: Why is he compromising our education just because his

government has been so wasteful?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, it came to a point where we took a look at it

and said: we have a management structure here that has a number of CEOs and

assistant directors; we felt it is better to use those monies in education. It

is as simple as that. We want a very strong regional presence, Mr. Speaker, that

will speak directly to education. The component of dealing with the HR and the

corporate side of it is here in our regional offices, Mr. Speaker, clearly

focused on what is most important in education, that being the performance of

our students.

I would ask him to take a look at the list of commitments that we have made

in his district, Mr. Speaker, to construction of new schools; across this

Province, nine, and ten more in the planning

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burgeo La Poile.

MR. A. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, Budget 2013 cut the College of the North

Atlantic's role in delivering Adult Basic Education.

I ask the minister: How many college employees will lose their jobs as a

result of this cut?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Advanced Education and Skills.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS SHEA: Mr. Speaker, any job losses in the college as a result of the

removal of ABE have been captured in the numbers already put forward by the

Minister of Finance. That analysis has been done.

Mr. Speaker, this is all about investing in the people of this Province and

the fact that people have the skills that they need as they move forward to

attach to the labour market. Mr. Speaker, we feel that ABE, along with some

other programs, is necessary; this government is committed to making sure that

the delivery of these programs is done in the most efficient and effective way

possible.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burgeo La Poile.

MR. A. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, yesterday's Budget Speech assured cutting

the ABE program at the college would be a smooth a transition as possible and

that job cuts would be done with respect.

I ask the minister: Do you consider it respectful that ABE staff at the

college had to find out their jobs were gone by watching the Minister of Finance

read the Budget on television?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Advanced Education and Skills.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS SHEA: Mr. Speaker, there are approximately 2,000 students in

Newfoundland and Labrador in the ABE program, and more than half take their

programming outside the College of the North Atlantic.

Mr. Speaker, in Newfoundland and Labrador, we are spending three times more

per student in ABE than our Atlantic counterparts. We looked at that

information; we know it is important to be able to provide ABE to the students

of Newfoundland, and as I said, Mr. Speaker, we are committed to doing that in

the most effective and efficient way possible.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.

MR. EDMUNDS: Mr. Speaker, Budget 2013 addresses a shortage of skilled

workers in demand for the Muskrat Falls Project. The agreement between the

Muskrat Falls Employers' Association and the Resource Development Trade Council

clearly outlines hiring priorities given to Innu Aboriginal Labradorians. There

are over 500 skilled workers in Labrador trained and ready for work, but they

are being denied jobs in Muskrat Falls.

I ask the Premier: What are you doing to enforce the guidelines of the

binding agreement to ensure that jobs are given to qualified Labradorians?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the Muskrat Falls Project was sanctioned in December. There

were, in January, 369 workers on the site; 101 of those were Labradorians. Of

those, fifty-four were from Aboriginal groups, 222 people were from the Island,

and forty-six were people from outside of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, this project is going to ramp up. More and more people are going

to be hired. There are going to be 3,100 people employed there at peak, and

Nalcor and the government will monitor to make sure that the Impacts and

Benefits Agreement which gives priority to the Innu, and then secondly to

other Labradorians, and then to Newfoundlanders and Labradorians will be

followed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.

MR. EDMUNDS: Eight per cent, Mr. Speaker, and they are still not getting

hired.

Mr. Speaker, I watched every member across this way stand up and promise jobs

to Labradorians including the Member for Labrador West, including the Member

for Lake Melville but it is not happening. Labradorians and trying to get

work, but they are being refused.

I ask the Premier: Why are you ignoring the promises you made to Labrador?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, the Muskrat Falls Project is going to offer

numerous advantages to the people of this Province over the next number of

years, not the least of which is the fact that 3,100 people at peak are going to

be employed there. That is going to be of benefit to many thousands of people in

the Province, it is going to be of benefit to the labour unions in Newfoundland

and Labrador, and I fail to see why anyone would be critical of that aspect.

We will ensure, Mr. Speaker, that the Impact and Benefits Agreement, which

gives priority to the Innu and which gives priority to Aboriginals and priority

to Labradorians, will be followed.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Member for Cartwright L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Talk is cheap and it does not pay the bills for Labrador families or

Aboriginal families, I say to the minister.

There are 100 per cent Aboriginal-owned, local Labrador companies today that

are trying to get work in Muskrat Falls, Mr. Speaker, and they are in the Lake

Melville area. They are being overlooked by the major contractors at Muskrat

Falls. Instead of subcontracting to these local companies, they are bringing the

work in from outside.

I ask the government today: What is a commitment to Labradorian first and

Aboriginal first hiring policies worth if you are not going to follow it when it

comes to the major contractors at Muskrat Falls?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, I can assure the hon. member and I can assure

the people of the Province that it is being followed and that the Innu

themselves are monitoring that agreement. They are certainly going to ensure it

is honoured by anybody, whether it is a direct contractor or whether it is a

subcontractor. Nalcor will monitor it as well, as will this government. The

commitment to the Aboriginal of Labrador will be kept, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Member for Cartwright L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In an e-mail from Nalcor, they said: While we ensure that businesses have

full and fair opportunity to participate in work for the project, decisions to

undertake work internally or to subcontract are ultimately contractor decisions.

These contractors are choosing to subcontract outside of the local area, outside

of Aboriginal-based business, outside of Labradorian business, and bring people

in to do the work.

Is that a fair commitment to the people of Labrador, I ask the government?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, first of all, the good news is because of the

commitment of this government and because of the vision of this Premier, we have

a project (inaudible)

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MARSHALL: It is not only going to provide jobs, but is it going to

give us energy security, it is going to enable us to export our surplus energy

down to other markets, and it is going to provide us with a redundancy in the

event of emergencies. Mr. Speaker, this is a wonderful project. Again, Nalcor,

the Innu, and the Government of Newfoundland will monitor this agreement.

It is early days. The project was only sanctioned in December. There are

going to be 3,100 people hired at peak and we are going to make sure, as I said

and I have said numerous times in this House, that everyone involved will have

to follow and honour this agreement. That is why it was made, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Member for Cartwright L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to challenge the government to put their words into action on the

ground in Muskrat Falls. If you are going to commit to jobs, hiring, and

subcontracting for Aboriginal-based companies and Labrador people, we are asking

that you do it.

As of the end of January, over 80 per cent of the workforce was from outside

of the Labrador and Aboriginal criteria of hiring. Today, we have companies that

are out there that are not getting contracts and they are qualified to do them.

I ask you minister: Isn't it time to step in and ensure that your commitment

to the people of Labrador is being met as a part of this Muskrat Falls Project?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, let us make one thing very clear. It was this

Premier and it was this government that made the commitment to this project and

has this project that is providing employment to the people of Labrador, that is

protecting the interests of the Innu and protecting the people of Labrador. More

money has been spent in Labrador by this government than any other government in

the history of this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Third Party.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Yesterday government delivered a devastating blow to workers, their families,

and communities across this Province, especially in rural communities.

Government is saying 985 jobs are gone, while the unions are tabulating

approximately 2,000 jobs lost.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS MICHAEL: Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier: Does she have an analysis

done on what the impact these job cuts will have on the Province's economy?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I would not want the truth to get in the

way of a good story from the NDP.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: As we have indicated, Mr. Speaker, there are 485 layoffs in

core government, 450 in agencies, boards and commissions, for a total of 935 job

layoffs. Mr. Speaker, Dr. Locke was working with us closely as we went through

this process. Dr. Locke suggested that the plan we put in place had to be such

that it takes place over a period of time, that we not cause a significant shock

to the economy.

We have reviewed this every step of the way. The way the layoffs were

structured, Mr. Speaker, are ones that Dr. Locke, in his advice to us, felt

could be sustained by our economy, especially with a private sector that can

offer jobs to a lot of these people.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Third Party.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Then I ask the minister: Since they have Dr. Locke on their payroll, will

they please get him to do an economic analysis and make it public in this House?

Mr. Speaker, these government jobs are well-paying stable jobs that enhance

the communities where the workers lived and worked. These communities are losing

the services those jobs provided. They are also being hit with new and higher

fees in a variety of areas.

I ask the Premier: Have they analyzed what this will mean for rural

communities?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Contrary to what the member opposite states, it is unfortunate but most of

the job layoffs are in the St. John's area. Out of the 485 jobs in core

government, 300 of them are from the St. John's or Avalon region, Mr. Speaker.

The rural areas of the Province have not been hit as hard.

The member opposite also raises a good point of the salaries and the good pay

that is received in the public service. There is no question, Mr. Speaker, that

is the case. In fact, I did the numbers at one point and it would surprise

people, Mr. Speaker

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. KENNEDY: - that approximately 27 per cent of the public service makes

more than $70,000 a year. So there is no question that there will be an economic

impact if people are laid off in those circumstances, but there is a private

sector out there, Mr. Speaker, that are looking for workers. That does not take

away from the devastating impact on people's lives.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Third Party.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

This government is making thousands of its employees pay for its own

ineptitude, and I am using the union's figures here. This fiscal crisis was

caused by their own bad decisions.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS MICHAEL: A fact that they refuse to admit, though they fool no one,

Mr. Speaker.

Less than two months ago government was projecting a $1.6 billion deficit.

Yesterday, the minister says the deficit is now only $563 million, a 70 per cent

reduction from the previous month's projection.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier: Is this wide discrepancy due to deliberate

fear mongering by her government, or is government simply inept?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, it is absolutely incredible, the Leader of the NDP is absolutely

devastated by the fact that the government is in a much better position, that

the people of Newfoundland and Labrador are better off than was anticipated two

months ago, Mr. Speaker. Shameful, shameful, Mr. Speaker!

I have only seen the same kind of devastation in this House recently, Mr.

Speaker, where we announced a half-billion dollar hospital for Corner Brook. Mr.

Speaker, I thought the Member for Bay of Islands was going to weep because it

was news he did not want to hear.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Third Party.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I wish, Mr. Speaker, that

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Leader of the Third Party.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I wish the Premier had been in our office today to see people walking in who

received their pink slips and they got all of the phone calls that we have had

from people in the ABE program, Mr. Speaker. The phones have not stopped in our

office today.

Mr. Speaker, I find it astounding that a minister of this government can

stand in the House and basically say he does not know why there is an extra $90

million given to his department in a time of austerity. Look at line item 2105

of the Finance Estimates to be precise, which he has done.

I ask the Minister of Finance: Tell us now how they plan to spend that $90

million? It is $90 million, Mr. Speaker, and he should be accountable to this

House for it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we know exactly what the $90 million is for and we will be

making that announcement very shortly.

Now, Mr. Speaker, let's talk about ineptitude. Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the

NDP has introduced a concept and we have heard about ineptitude from the NDP

before when we have talked about, like the replacement of Holyrood by burning

shrimp shells or biomass without doing the research to learn that biomass would

destroy the forests in Newfoundland and Labrador within two generations.

Now, Mr. Speaker, in the news yesterday we heard the Leader of the NDP talk

about the 78 per cent taxes that are charged to oil companies in Norway. Mr.

Speaker, you cannot formulate a tax regime based on Google. Go back, get the

facts right, Mr. Speaker, before you poison the (inaudible).

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for St. John's North.

MR. KIRBY: Mr. Speaker, today the Eastern School District advised autism

itinerate teachers, educational psychologists, and speech language pathologists

that they would be losing their jobs. The Minister of Education has also

approved a plan to change the teacher allocation formula so that he can cut even

more positions in schools. Rural education and special education are already

under strain across the Province.

Why is the minister intent on making matters even worse?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, I am not aware, and I asked before I came to

the House if because I had heard this through a Tweet that the member had put

out. The CEOs are not aware and have not made contact, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. JACKMAN: I would suggest, Mr. Speaker, the hon. member cannot handle

the fact as what came out in this Budget. No changes to class caps, Mr. Speaker,

one of the best funded educational systems in this country.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: The best student-teacher ratio, Mr. Speaker, in this

country. We stand to our commitment to education in Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's North.

MR. KIRBY: Now, Mr. Speaker, we already know that the Minister of

Education does not understand the difference between teaching on Fogo and

teaching in downtown St. John's, but he should understand that a cut is a cut.

Now, Mr. Speaker, the 2013 Budget proposes to cut tens of millions of dollars

in funding from an already strained education system.

How can the Minister of Education say he is improving the quality of

education when he is cutting school boards, he is cutting services to students

with special education needs, he is cutting teachers, and he is cutting back on

learning resources? How can he say that?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Let us get some facts right, Mr. Speaker. I taught. I taught

in Cartwright, Labrador. I taught in Boat Harbour on the Burin Peninsula. I

taught in Jacques Fontaine on the Burin Peninsula. So I do know a little bit of

the difference about teaching in rural and urban, Mr. Speaker.

Let me give the member some facts, Mr. Speaker: no cuts to class caps.

Despite his going through the Estimates book yesterday and tweeting something

that was wrong, there is no cut to special education services, there is no cut

to guidance services, and there are no cuts to itinerant teachers Mr. Speaker,

commitment to education in Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's Centre.

MS ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Still no reports from three regional health authority health care management

reviews; the Eastern Health review alone targeted the elimination of 450 FTEs.

Yesterday's Budget stated 192 additional layoffs in the regional health

authorities with up to 150 of them managers. Does this minister not understand

the impact that these cuts will have on patient care?

I ask the minister: Will there be clinical management positions cut, and

where are these cuts going to be made?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I want to get this right. I believe what I am hearing from the

other side is that she does not want management cuts, she wants cuts on the

front line. Well, this government, Mr. Speaker, does not want that. We have

committed to no cuts on the front line. We have put in $2.9 billion in health

care.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MS SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, I hear the Member for the Bay of Islands over

there, the same member who does not want the half-billion dollar hospital over

there, obviously still upset by the half-billion hospital over there, but we are

committed to putting a hospital in Corner Brook, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's Centre.

MS ROGERS: Mr. Speaker, the Family Violence Intervention Court is a

crucial program for both victims of family violence and the legal system dealing

with these issues. This morning I heard of layoffs from the court, including the

court liaison officer, and with more to come.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister: Is it efficient to dismantle a successful

and worthwhile program? Why is he dismantling the Family Violence Intervention

Court?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As the minister and Premier have been very clear upon here, this Budget is

about investing in the future of the Province. Unfortunately, we are in times

where we have to take a look at how we deliver our services and our programs. In

the Department of Justice we have core mandates, Mr. Speaker, to focus on

policing and providing safe communities, to prosecuting criminals who are

breaking the law, and providing correctional services to house those criminals.

That is the core mandate we are focused on.

Outside of that, we have other ancillary services that we provide to support

people of the Province. From time to time, we reflect upon whether those

services are meeting the objectives or whether we want to adjust the course.

Right now we are adjusting the course in Justice.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The time for Question Period has expired.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

Tabling of Documents.

Tabling of Documents

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

In accordance with paragraph 15(5)(

b) of the House of Assembly

Accountability, Integrity and Administration Act, I give notice of the tabling

of the draft amendments to the Members' Resources and Allowances Rules before

the Management Commission of the House of Assembly on March 20, 2013.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Speaker is on his feet.

I am also tabling those proposed rules and amendments. I wish to inform

members that those rules and amendments are now posted on the House of

Assembly's Web site.

I just want to read into the record some of the comments or some of the

changes being made in the document that is being tabled today.

In accordance with the House of Assembly Accountability, Integrity and

Administration Act, I am pleased to table amendments to the Members' Resources

and Allowance Rules, subordinate legislation to the act. The rule amendments

arise from recommendations made by the 2012 Members' Compensation Review

Committee, which were approved by the House of Assembly Management Commission on

March 20, 2013, and from Budget decisions made by the Management Commission

during the pre-Budget process of the House of Assembly.

The amendments include: a 20 per cent reduction in the inter-constituency

allowance provided to each district to enable members to carry out his or her

responsibility to the constituents in the district; a 20 per cent reduction from

$15,000 annually to $12,000 annually in the office operation and supply

allocation provided to each member; the removal of the $7,000 cap for

constituency offices located outside the Confederation Building.

This amendment has the effect of allowing the House to budget for a lesser

overall amount for those expenditures, because the number of each constituency

offices is relatively small; however, under the existing regime, the budget

amount was required to be $7,000 times forty-eight members, despite the fact

that most members did not use the total allocation.

The $750 short-term accommodation rental previously available for members for

meetings from within their constituency has been eliminated. Members will be

able to claim amounts for short-term accommodations within their districts under

the $3,000 constituency allowance allocation.

Members from seven districts outside the capital region can now choose to

return home each night that the House is sitting rather than be required to

spend a night in a hotel. This would allow a claim for transportation rather

than for daily per diems and hotel costs for those members.

An adjustment in the helicopter allocation for the Districts of Cartwright

L'Anse au Clair, Fortune Bay Cape La Hune, Torngat Mountains, as well the

District of Burgeo La Poile is now being provided with a helicopter

allocation. Members from the four districts can access the funds only with the

prior approval of the Speaker.

Finally, individual adjustments are being made in the intra-constituency

allowances for the District of Cartwright L'Anse au Clair, Fortune Bay Cape

La Hune, and St. Barbe. Those amendments will be debated upon our return after

Easter.

Notices of Motion.

Notices of Motion

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance.

MR. KENNEDY: Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Pursuant to

section 26.(5)(

a) of the Financial Administration Act, I am

tabling one Order-in-Council relating to a funding pre-commitment for the

2013-2014 to 2014-2015 fiscal years, Mr. Speaker. The commitment relates to the

awarding of a contract for the Corner Brook junior high school redevelopment

project.

MR. SPEAKER: Notices of motion.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. KING: Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will ask leave to move the following

resolution:

BE IT RESOLVED by the House of Assembly as follows:

WHEREAS subsection 20.(7) of the House of Assembly Accountability, Integrity

And Administration Act provides that a change to the level of amounts of

allowances and resources provided to members not be made except in accordance

with a rule that has been first laid before the House of Assembly and adopted by

resolution of this House; and

WHEREAS amendments to the Members' Resources and Allowances Rules, which, in

part, would change the level of amounts of allowances and resources have been

laid before the House by the Speaker;

THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that this hon. House of Assembly adopt the

amendments of the Members' Resources and Allowance Rules, as tabled by the

Speaker of this House on March 27, 2013.

MR. SPEAKER: Further notices of motion?

Answers to Questions for Which Notice has been Given.

Petitions.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burgeo La Poile.

MR. A. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, I have a petition. To the hon. House of

Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in Parliament assembled,

the petition of the undersigned residents humbly sheweth:

WHEREAS Newfoundland and Labrador currently has the highest unemployment rate

in Canada; and

WHEREAS the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador anticipate a labour

shortage of 70,000 people by 2020; and

WHEREAS eliminating the career practitioner knowledge base is contrary to

attaching people to the labour market; and

WHEREAS EAS agencies are grassroots hubs in communities providing services

like skills development, resume development, interview skills, facilitating

attachment to the labour market and the community; and

WHEREAS EAS agencies help individuals with complex needs find and maintain

employment in communities throughout the Province; and

WHEREAS EAS agencies have been serving thousands of people for years,

building expertise and rapport; and

WHEREAS loading the workload of 226 employees onto 139 Advanced Education and

Skills employees would be an overwhelming expectation, increasing staff turnover

and thus decreasing rapport with clients; and

WHEREAS EAS funding comes from the EI fund, built by workers, to help them

when and where they need it most; and

WHEREAS moving services away from people who lack the means to travel long

distances is not in line with the Labour Market Development Agreement's

principle of citizen-centred service;

WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the

House of Assembly to urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to reverse

this decision to cut funding to EAS agencies.

Again, there are a number of opportunities I have had to present this

petition, but today is especially striking in that I am presenting this petition

one day after the Budget. Now, most of these cuts were made and, apparently,

they had nothing to do with that Budget that came down yesterday. It is funny

also, the day after the Budget, we finally get access to Mr. Noseworthy's report

which we paid $150,000 for. Mr. Noseworthy's report, I am assuming, is going to

take EAS under it.

I just want to go back to the timeline, because this is what the EAS people

who e-mail me every single day are asking. They are saying: How did we create

this department which was cobbled together, with no thought put into it

whatsoever? How do we then hire Mr. Noseworthy to come up with a report, which

we get and we do not look at and have no consideration put into the Budget about

it, and then we cut the EAS workers but apparently that had nothing to do with

the Budget?

The question I have is I am hoping at some point that the minister will

stand and explain this to me how we paid $150,000 for a report. We do not

actually use the report. We get the report the day after the Budget. Again, we

have already seen her department gutted, and I have only seen the executive

summary. We did get 472 pages to look at; I am looking forward to reading that

and getting into exactly how poor this department was constructed, because that

is just what I am seeing on the first page.

I thank you for the opportunity. I will have more petitions and hopefully

THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that this House of Assembly call upon the Government

of Newfoundland and Labrador, in consultation with industry and communities, to

develop and implement a regulatory framework under which hydraulic fracturing

could proceed safely while protecting the natural environment and associated

necessary local water resources.

Mr. Speaker, in support of this motion today, I would like to speak of two

towns in my district and the critical importance of meaningful economic

development to these towns and others in our Province, and why government should

move now to regulate fracking in our Province. I said regulate fracking, not ban

it.

We need to use fracking to unlock a wealth buried in the earth, but we must

do so in an environmentally safe and responsible manner. This new wealth can

rebuild these towns and other towns in our Province. This new wealth can employ

our people. This new wealth can permit our people to return and rebuild our

Province.

The towns that I speak of are St. Paul's Inlet and Hawke's Bay. They could be

any one of hundreds of similarly situated towns in Newfoundland and Labrador.

Their stories are echoed by many other towns well known by us all.

St. Paul's is a town of 300 souls on the Northern part of the Gros Morne

National Park. I share a common ancestor with many of the residents of St.

Paul's, my great-great grandfather, John Benoit, who was one-quarter native.

Historically, St. Paul's was a fishing community famed for large schools of

herring that swam through the narrow inlet. Many kinds of fish were abundant in

the nearby landlocked bay.

In the mid-1970s, the entire region, except for a small handful of small

enclaves, was transferred to the federal government, and Gros Morne National

Park was created. While few people will dispute that the national park has been

good for the Province, the park has not been kind to St. Paul's. The park

promised to build a large campground in St. Paul's that would employ many

residents. To accommodate this expansion, the park proposed a large modern water

and sewage treatment plant. With funds from the federal Department of Regional

Economic Expansion and our Province, the park authority undertook to build.

Even though the project appeared to proceed as planned, on time and on

budget, because the park authority experienced a cost overrun in another enclave

community, water and sewer project funds were diverted from the St. Paul's water

and sewer project.

What did the national park eliminate from the St. Pauls project? They

eliminated the sewage treatment plant. That is right. Gros Morne National Park,

in developing a pristine, world-renowned wilderness park, took public money to

build a sewage treatment plant in a small park community and did not build it.

Worse yet, the park installed the outlet for untreated sewage in the middle of

the narrow tidal inlet, discharging sewage in the channel used by herring and

other migrating fish.

At the time, people were alarmed. They objected. Their objections fell on

deaf ears. The park ignored their town council. The park ignored the regional

development association. The park ignored their Member of the House of Assembly,

Trevor Bennett, who is my father. The park ignored their Member of Parliament,

Fonse Faour, who is now Mr. Justice Faour. All of this is documented.

Within the past two years, I have communicated all of this information to the

provincial Department of Fisheries, to the federal Department of Fisheries, to

the federal Department of Environment, to the provincial Department of

Environment, and to Parks Canada. Their response: If the water is contaminated

in the Town of St. Pauls, then the town should put up a sign.

Predictably, the herring stopped coming and the fishery was lost. The park

failed to build the promised campground and the promised jobs failed to

materialize. Yes, while the park has been good for the Province, St. Pauls'

legacy includes a lost fishery, an overbuilt water and sewage system that is

very expensive to operate, and a pervasive smell of raw sewage for the

residents.

With few job opportunities, most of the young people have moved away, but

home is home. As I came home every summer for twenty years until I finally

returned home eleven years ago, many of them return home every summer. Last

summer, I attended the St. Pauls Invitational Slo-Pitch Tournament. As I watched

these young men play ball under the watchful eyes of their wives, their

children, and their elderly parents, I thought: without local development, this

is our Province's future. We are building Fort McMurray. We are building Grand

Prairie. We are building Swan Hills and Devon, but we are not building St. Pauls

or Hawke's Bay, or hundreds of towns like them.

Speaking of Hawke's Bay, just 110 kilometres north of St. Pauls is the Town

of Hawke's Bay. Historically, this town has suffered heavy economic and

population losses. Home to approximately 350 souls and eleven businesses,

Hawke's Bay started out as a centre for the woods industry around the time of

Confederation. The town suffered the vagaries of being a forestry outpost for a

generation, with overcutting eventually causing its decline and the eventual

unemployment.

Things began to look up in the mid-1970s when Newfoundland Zinc mine opened

in Daniel's Harbour. Hawke's Bay was established as a shipping port for large

stockpiles of zinc concentrate. However, this mine, like all mines, played out,

throwing many people out of work.

Alternatives for economic development were examined, including mussel

aquaculture in a sheltered bay. However, fifteen years of loading zinc

concentrate without adequate safeguards against spillage resulted in large

volumes of concentrate being deposited in the bay rendering it unfit for

mussels. There still remains a large layer of concentrate over the bottom. The

town has been told that removal is impossible, as stirring up the bottom would

cause the zinc to disburse polluting an even larger area.

Next, a local entrepreneur set up a hardwood flooring business. Initially,

things went well as there was a large supply of birch trees left behind by the

softwoods industry. Disaster struck when the business was lost by fire and the

operator decided it more feasible to set up elsewhere.

What does this have to do with hydraulic fracturing? Hawke's Bay is eighty

kilometres north of Gros Morne Park and is the logical place to set up oil

storage tanks and a port for tankers to operate. This development would

revitalize Hawke's Bay and all towns in the region. I can tell you that local

people, local businesses and the regional council are all holding their breath

hoping that development will proceed.

Over the years, so many of our families have moved to Grande Prairie, Fort

McMurray, Devon, and Swan Hills. The place names, such as these, are very

familiar in towns like Hawke's Bay, St. Pauls, and others around our Province.

Today, working people, old people and business people in my district are alive

with the anticipation of the benefits that would come with oil exploration, but

also the environmental risks associated with it. That is why they want both.

They want regulated exploration and development so their families will return

and their towns will survive.

That, Mr. Speaker, is why I propose and support this resolution.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is pleasure for me to have an opportunity to say a few words on this

particular motion which involves what I think is a very important matter for the

people of this Province and in particular, the people of the West Coast of the

Province and that is a dream that many have. As the Member for St. Barbe just

expressed, is the desire to see economic development on the West Coast in the

form of an oil industry.

We have all seen the wealth and the prosperity that the oil and gas industry

has brought to this Province from wells that are offshore, wells that a lot of

us do not see. Just as an example, the Province has estimated that there are 3.1

billion barrels of discovered and 6 billion barrels of undiscovered crude oil

offshore. There are three offshore projects that are happening right now. Hebron

is in development.

Accumulative oil production from all of these projects to the end of 2012 was

1.36 billion barrels with an estimated value of $93 billion. That is such a

large number, it is hard to fathom. This industry and this activity have

contributed very significantly to the economic prosperity of this Province, and

to the fiscal coffers of this particular Province. For the year 2011-2012, for

example, there were $2.8 billion in royalties that came into the Province from

the offshore oil industry, plus corporate income taxes they would pay, plus the

personal income taxes that would be paid by their well paid employees.

Cumulative oil royalties since that industry started, up to the end of 2012,

is $14.3 billion came into the Province. These are large amounts of money. In

2011, this accounted for 33 per cent of our gross domestic product, 33 per cent

of our entire economy.

This wealth has enabled governments from the royalties the companies pay and

the corporate income tax they pay, it has enabled us to do things that people

want to see done; to invest in health care, to invest in education, to invest in

infrastructure, to fund progressive social programs, to do things we could not

do in the past. We always must remember that these revenues are based on these

are non-renewable resources, and while they are very profitable and while they

give benefits to the Province and the people of the Province, we must never

forget that these non-renewable resources will at one day come to an end.

We have to make sure the revenues we get now, we spend wisely, and that we

diversify the economy. We get rid of the massive debt that previous generations

of our people have incurred. We get rid of that so our children and our

grandchildren are not saddled with that debt, and that we build for them a

framework in which they can pursue economic growth and prosperity.

Now, Mr. Speaker, those resources are offshore, but there has also been

activity in this Province in the onshore. Unfortunately, that activity in the

onshore, which has been mainly Western Newfoundland, has not been as successful.

Petroleum exploration has happened in Western Newfoundland since the 1800s. I

understand that in about the 1830s in the Parsons Pond area, British settler's

first encountered oil seeps there. The first oil well in Newfoundland and

Labrador was drilled in that area in the year Canada came together, 1867. That

was the first oil well drilled on the West Coast.

While there has been lots of activity, and the Geological Survey of Canada

has put out reports talking about the potential of billions of barrels of oil

along with significant natural gas on the West Coast, unfortunately, there has

not been success to date. While oil has been discovered, the volume that has

come out has not been sufficient to make a business case. There have not been,

we would say, economic quantities of oil to establish an industry.

On the West Coast there are seven exploration permits. There is one

production lease. Then in the Western Newfoundland offshore, there are seven

exploration licences issued by the C-NLOPB. It is the junior oil companies, not

the large companies. The large companies are offshore where it might cost $200

million to $300 million just to drill a well, but on the onshore it is cheaper.

Onshore it is smaller companies, and regular individuals can get involved in

the onshore oil and gas industry. There have been forty wells drilled on the

West Coast since 1994. There are sixty-four historic wells, there is one

offshore well, and nine onshore-to-offshore wells. Mr. Speaker, I will not go

into some of these. We all know about Nalcor's efforts there, they have not been

successful.

Now, there is something happening in the United States that has caught

everyone's attention. It is oil that is coming from tight rock, such as shale.

On the West Coast of Newfoundland and Labrador there is a shale deposit called

the Green Point Shale deposit. It is attracting interest from a company called

Shoal Point Energy, which has been drilling in that area I think for some time.

I have heard this is subject to confirmation that maybe $30 million, $35

million has been spent in that one particular well, but while oil has been

encountered, the oil does not flow.

One of the things I have learned since I have become the Minister of Natural

Resources, and one of the things that surprised me to learn was the fact that

most oil wells have difficulty flowing, because they are caught up in rock which

may not be porous; they are caught up in rock that is not permeable. The oil

that flows is in rock that is permeable. There are pores in the rock so the oil

can flow through these reservoirs.

Whereas in something called tight rock or shale, they are not permeable. The

oil is caught up in the rock and it does not flow. Like most people here, I

thought, from movies I guess I watched too many movies and TV shows where they

drill a well and if there is oil it comes up; there is a lot of pressure and it

explodes. I understand that with most wells, that does not happen. Most wells

need stimulation; they need secondary production. Secondary production is to

inject water or to inject gas into the well and try to get the oil or the gas,

whatever it is, to move because it is caught up, in many cases, in the tight

rock.

In the late-1940s, I understand, in Kansas I have read two different

things; somebody said it was 1947 in Kansas and somebody else said it was 1949

in a place called Velma, Oklahoma, that somebody discovered something called

hydraulic fracturing, known as fracking. The hon. Member for St. John's East

calls it sweet water. I do not know why he calls it sweet water.

AN HON. MEMBER: Slickwater.

MR. MARSHALL: Slickwater. I assume that is a reference to the chemicals

that are in the water.

This happened in vertical wells. Basically it meant that water and sand were

injected into the well with chemical treatment under high pressure. The idea was

to fracture the hole. You can imagine this equipment in the hole or drill pipe

in the well hole with holes at the bottom of the pipe. There would be like a

little mini explosion out there to try to get the oil to get into the pipe and

come up the pipe.

That has gone on for six decades, sixty years. I am told that in our country,

in Alberta and in British Columbia, there have been 167,000, 170,000, some say

200,000 of wells drilled in Canada which have used hydraulic fracturing or

fracking. The regulators in British Columbia and the regulators in Alberta tell

us that not one of those not in one case has there been any contamination of

groundwater. That is a great record and it just goes to show that the

regulation, if it is done properly, can prevent that. Admittedly, the results

coming out of the United States have not been nearly as stellar.

Mr. Speaker, the change, what is new to this debate, is that there is new

technology and now wells can be drilled horizontally. Instead of a vertical

well, instead of a well at a slant, you can now go down and when you hit the

strata, which is the shale rock, you can now horizontally turn the well so it

drills horizontally. Then what you can do is you can do this fracking; instead

of doing it once in one area or a couple of times in one area, you can now do it

in multi-stages along the horizontal.

The whole idea is to inject water and sand with some chemicals into the

wellbore under high pressure and that will crack that tight rock. That will

crack the shale. It will put fractures. That is why it is called hydraulic

fracturing, or hydraulic fracking, hydraulic meaning water and fracking meaning

you make the cracks like fractures, so that the rock is cracked, the oil or the

gas will then flow into the wellbore, and then it is taken up.

This has been very successful in the United States in a place called Bakken,

North Dakota. There is shale oil and they have been very successful there. I

cannot remember how many wells are there now. One of the beauties of this is if

you are drilling vertically into shale oil, you will have to have a number of

vertical wells, a lot of wells up on top. With the hydraulic fracturing, if you

can do it horizontally you only have to have the one up there and it can

fracture as it moves along.

Mr. Speaker, there are people who have concern about this. It just so

happened a number of years ago I was watching CBC and they had a page or a

couple of pages dealing with fracking in New Brunswick. It kind of piqued my

interest and that is where I first heard of it. It had to do with shale gas in

New Brunswick. Sure enough, it has arrived here.

We found out, much to my surprise, it came about because Shoal Point Energy

wanted to do it and they have entered into an agreement with a company called

Black Spruce Exploration. Black Spruce Exploration wants to drill a number of

wells on the West Coast of the Province, I think it is four over this summer,

and they will be using hydraulic fracturing.

Of course, at this point nobody has approval to do that. There has been no

registration accepted by the Department of Environment and Conservation. My

colleague, the Minister of Environment and Conservation, will speak on this.

There has been no application that has come into the Department of Natural

Resources, and I do not believe there is anything at the C-NLOPB. In our

Province, offshore oil wells, as everybody knows, are regulated by the Atlantic

Accord legislation and the regulations under that dealing with the offshore oil.

The well will be on land. The well will go down on land, probably at a slant, go

out into the shale, so the fracking will actually take place offshore, out into

the ocean.

If a well is onshore, it is regulated by the Department of Natural Resources,

our Petroleum and Natural Gas Act and the regulations under that. If you have a

well now that is onshore to offshore, that is now regulated by both, through an

MOU that exists between the provincial government, the Department of

Environment, the Department of Natural Resources, and the C-NLOPB. All the

regulations have to (inaudible).

Mr. Speaker, I am running out of time, quickly. I have now explained how it

works and I have talked about our regulations and the C-NLOPB's regulations, and

the Minister of Environment will talk about regulations under the Environment

Act and the Environmental Protection Act.

Again, I will say that our government's approach to the regulation is sound

and is based on precautionary principles. We support economic development,

subject to different conditions. One of the conditions are that the people of

this Province have to be the beneficiaries of that development. Two, economic

development that we support must take place in a framework that protects the

health and safety of members of the public and the workers who are working on

the rig and it must take place within a framework that provides for robust

environmental regulation, and the Minister of Environment will talk about that.

We approach industry regulation based on the precautionary principle. We will

ensure that any well, whether it is hydraulic fracturing or not, is carried out

safely and poses no dangers to workers or the public of the Province or the

environment. We are confident that the regulations presently in place will deal

with this, but we, of course, will continue to review our regulations to ensure

that if enhancements are needed they can be provided.

Also, we have the capacity and I am running out of time to make a

condition, a term and condition, of any licence to drill a well. We can add any

regulations that we consider appropriate to that. We can order the oil companies

to publicly disclose on an Internet site what chemicals they are using if they

are fracturing. Right now, we have very robust regulations that deal with the

casing of the well and protection of groundwater.

Mr. Speaker, I am sure if I can just take a minute to sum up

MR. SPEAKER (Verge): Order, please!

Does the member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. MARSHALL: I am sure that as we get into the Speech from the Throne

and begin the debate on the Budget that we can talk about more and more of these

issues, such as what has to be regulated, the casing around the well, the

cementing of the casing, the secondary casing; to ensure that the aquifers and

the groundwater is not contaminated in any way; to ensure that the chemicals are

properly stored on top of the ground; to make sure that the chemicals when they

come out of the ground hopefully with oil attached will be properly treated

and will be properly recycled.

No well will be drilled in this Province without being subject to rigorous

Department of Natural Resources, by the C-NLOPB, and especially by the

Department of Environment to ensure that the public and the workers, and our

Province and the people of the Province are protected.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I stand in my place today to speak on this private member's motion from the

Member for St. Barbe. It is an issue that is taking a forefront in a lot of

places around North America, in the US, and in Canada. It is something that, as

a Province, we must try to grapple with and to ensure that we are prepared and

ready for it: the fracking, Mr. Speaker.

As the minister mentioned, fracking, if done properly, can bring a lot of

growth to the economy, and it can help build like, for example, ensure that we

have the second $500 million for the hospital in Corner Brook that was committed

a few years back. We can support the economy like that, instead of having things

like the PET scan taken out of the hospital in Corner Brook. We will be able to

find the funds to put it back in, instead of having it taken out. That is the

kind of things that hopefully fracking can bring and make a contribution to the

economy, Mr. Speaker.

That can help out, and there are a number of other things. For example,

ensure that the hospital in Corner Brook has more acute care beds when it is

developed than what is there now. As we have this growth and we are going need

more acute care beds, we are going to need to ensure that we have the funds to

do that, Mr. Speaker. So, those are a couple of the things that we need, if we

get the economy.

I know the NDP, where they stand on fracking, and as we know, Saskatchewan

has been supporting fracking for a number of years. I know this goes to two

departments in government and the C-NLOPB, Mr. Speaker.

As we all know, there are certain parts of the Province that this fracking is

going to be very effective and it is going to be very good for the economy. In

Western Newfoundland, I know it is going to be good for the economy.

In Lark Harbour they are planning on doing some fracking. There was a public

meeting in Lark Harbour probably about four or five months ago that I attended

on this, Mr. Speaker. The big concerns for the people of the time, and of course

we all have to get educated on this, are jobs for the community, prosperity for

the community, a chance to revitalise some parts of Newfoundland and Labrador,

and a chance that people will find employment and stay in their own communities.

There is a big concern with it. We all agree that there should be some advantage

and some prosperity given to these people who are hoping to stay in their own

area.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, when we look at this type of project, we have to

look at this worldwide, in the economics worldwide. In 2017-2020, the US will

become self-sufficient in oil because of fracking.

Now, we hear some horror stories about fracking and some of the drawbacks of

it. If not done properly or safely, I can understand the people's concerns and

why people are so concerned about the environment. That is why I encourage the

government, Mr. Speaker. As I mentioned earlier, there is the Department of

Natural Resources, the Department of Environment and Conservation, and the

C-NLOPB that are going to be involved with the regulations.

What we do not have in this Province and this is where I encourage the

government is a developed set of regulations for fracking. I heard the

minister previously, and this is no condemnation of the minister or the

government, because this is hitting everybody in Newfoundland and Labrador in

the last little while. What we need is to take the regulations from Natural

Resources, take the regulations from Environment and Conservation, and take the

regulations from the Offshore Petroleum Board, bring them all together, and

develop regulations for fracking. That is what we do not have. We have different

regulations for different parts, if it is on land and off land.

Again, I say to the minister, I know it is just hitting Newfoundland and

Labrador at this scale. Some of the figures we have seen, we are talking a lot

of prosperity for Newfoundland and Labrador if we can do this right. That is

what we need in this Province, a book that you are going to say: here are the

rules and regulations on fracking. You can live by it or you can walk away from

it, but at least we will have the rules and regulations.

Mr. Speaker, some of the concerns that have to be in those rules and

regulations have brought about and we would be remiss if we did not bring up

some of the concerns that are expressed and some of our own research that we

find, like groundwater contamination; nothing can get into the groundwater if

there is water in the area. Some people worry about their drinking water; there

can be methane in the water through leaks in the pipes and in the cement. That

is a concern.

We have to try to ensure that there are regulations in place, to ensure that

the cement and the capsules that go down are protected in such a way that this

does not happen. One way that we can do it is go all across Canada, go all

across the US, and find regulations to bring it in and get the most stringent

regulations we can.

That is one concern, Mr. Speaker, that has been brought to my attention,

contamination of the water, the groundwater, through methane. Then again, that

is where you need to bring in the experts on how we can ensure that we mitigate

all of the risks for that in the development of fracking.

We also have to ensure that all of the wells are properly sealed. Again, this

is a concern that was raised at the meeting out in Lark Harbour, to ensure that

the wells are sealed, to ensure that there was no leakage. This is something,

again, that we need to ensure before anybody even goes in, to have these

regulations put in place.

Mr. Speaker, I feel that the people who I was speaking to and I will just

use out Lark Harbour way; people want to see industry in their town. People want

to see it, but they also want to see regulations to protect their environment in

their town.

I am a firm believer that if any person who can create prosperity in their

town, protect their environment, and leave the environment in the same natural

state, or in some way protect it so there is going to be no adverse effect on

it, I honestly feel that they would be pro-development.

Another concern, Mr. Speaker, that they have is wastewater. As we all know,

the amount of wastewater that is going to be used in fracking is high in volume.

Mr. Speaker, the concern is: how are we going to dispose of this wastewater?

That is another concern. There are natural ways, like through contamination. You

can bring it to a water treatment centre somehow, which in some cases it was

said that it can be done. They can set up a treatment centre if it is a high

enough volume.

That is another concern, Mr. Speaker, that was brought up is the waste water.

Ensure that when the waste water is used, because there will be some

contaminations in the waste water, that it is disposed of in a way that will

bring the water back to its natural state, or ensure it is treated in some way

that there is not going to be any harm to the environment when it is released

back into the environment. It can be done.

I know out in Stephenville there were some contaminated sites, they go

through the process and it can be done. It definitely can be done. What we need

to do as a Province, and it is just not government but all of us together, we

need to ensure that all of these regulations are in place so that we can stand

up if we support it, stand up and say yes, to the best of our ability, the

environment is being protected. If we cannot do that, it is going to be hard for

us to stand up and support this without a guarantee that we feel confident the

environment will be protected, and the environment will not have any adverse

effects for the future. It is incumbent upon us, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, another concern that was brought up, and it was brought up in

smaller municipalities. It is a smaller concern of the environment, but when you

are doing the fracking I will just use Lark Harbour, for example, Mr. Speaker.

I will use Lark Harbour for an example. With the amount of waste water that is

going to be coming into the Town of Lark Harbour, it is going to have to be

trucked in. If you bring in that many trucks, twenty-four hours a day over the

roads, we as a government, we as parliamentarians, we need to ensure the

infrastructure can handle that.

If we are going to create prosperity in around Western Newfoundland, we need

to ensure that the roads are up to a certain standard. We need to ensure the

infrastructure. It is no good to say, okay, we are going to start fracking in

Lark Harbour if we do not give the companies the ability to get the equipment,

to get the water they need and get it back out, the waste water they did not

need. That is a concern that was brought up, especially going to a lot of our

rural parts.

If it is going to be that good to the economy, we have to support it, Mr.

Speaker. This is an important issue because a lot of the roads in rural

Newfoundland are a bit narrow. They may need some work done on the roads. It is

a concern for infrastructure if this goes ahead. This is something that I am

sure is going to be expressed to a lot of people.

Mr. Speaker, as we all know in fracking there is a certain percentage of

chemicals used. In some cases there is 0.5 per cent up to 1.5 per cent that is

used, Mr. Speaker, in the actual fracking. Two concerns have been brought to me.

One, I already addressed, is the waste water. We need some kind of water

treatment facility to ensure that the waste water is disposed of somehow, or

some other mechanism which is not harmful to the environment.

The other thing we need to do, and this is something a lot of people if

there are chemicals going to be used, we should ensure all chemicals that are

going to be used in fracking are listed. So people will say here is what is

being used. We all know it, and it is just human nature, if we do not know

something we are going to assume the worst. That is human nature.

If you have people out there saying: What chemicals are used? If we cannot

say here is what is going to be used and there are going to be times, Mr.

Speaker, when the government will have to step in and say: No, you cannot use

this chemical, we have no way to ensure that it is going to be safe after. That

may be but whatever the regulations are, whatever chemicals we are going to

allow the companies to use, we must make it public.

We must be able to for the general public to say here is what is being used,

so they can do their own evaluation. Once we say here is what chemicals are

going to be used, here is how we are going to dispose of the waste water, then

let's have a discussion. Is this the proper way to do it? Can the environment be

safe? Can the environment be protected?

Only with the proper information upfront can we have an honest debate and an

honest discussion. If all these commitments are made, I feel most level-headed

people will support it if we can guarantee the environment is safe and it will

bring economic benefits to the town. Mr. Speaker, this is something that we must

do.

We must have a clear list for the companies to say here is what you are

allowed to use, here is what you cannot use. Everybody knows, everybody we

have a package. Here are the rules and regulations. If you want to frack in

Newfoundland and Labrador, here are the rules and regulations. If you cannot

meet by these rules too bad, hard luck. At least they will know what they are

dealing with. They can make a business decision then if they want to do it.

There are two things, we have to balance out the economic, and we have to

ensure safety and protection of the environment. Mr. Speaker, it is very

important. It is incumbent on government to ensure that all information is made

public.

Mr. Speaker, if we can do this properly, and if you look at in the US where

fracking has taken place and done properly, there is a decrease in greenhouse

gases. There is an actual decrease in greenhouse gases. So it can help the

environment if it is done properly. That is something, Mr. Speaker, that we as

parliamentarians have to try to ensure is done so we can help decrease

greenhouse gases.

This is not being political, but this is something I cannot go to this

government today or any business and say: What are the regulations on fracking?

We have to go to two or three different departments to try to haul them out and

say here are the regulations. I am just going on as a person who never got

involved with fracking in his life and does not know what the pros and cons,

with the proper environmental regulations, are. This is someone who is now

saying, if I wanted to go fracking here in Newfoundland and Labrador, can I go

get a book and say here are the rules and regulations. If I wanted to get a

driver's licence, here are the rules and regulations.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the government to get this in place. I can assure you

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. JOYCE: I know my time is up. I will clue up, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Does the member have leave to clue up?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: The member has two minutes.

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, what I will do is if the government can come up

with the regulations that can guarantee it is going to protect the environment

to the best of all of our abilities, of all the sciences around, to protect the

environment and to ensure a safe and pristine environment once fracking is over,

I have no problem supporting fracking. I have no problem whatsoever, for

economic benefit. I cannot support fracking if every time I heard the minister

just a minute ago say that we can add stuff. We need to put down regulations.

I say to the minister, it may come up later that we need to put more

regulations or stringent regulations. That is fine, but we need it in place so

we as parliamentarians can make a decision and we as parliamentarians can say,

yes, we support it. I support economic development; I also need to support the

environment. I honestly feel that we can come up with regulations where we can

balance out both to ensure a prosperous Newfoundland and Labrador where fracking

is taking place and ensure that our environment is pristine and clean once they

are up and running.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Humber West.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRANTER: Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker.

It is indeed a privilege and an honour this afternoon to stand today just for

a few moments to talk about the motion on the floor. I believe it is a timely

one, Mr. Speaker, the one that is presented on the floor of this House,

regarding potential oil development on the West Coast of the Province and its

potential impacts.

I want to say from the start that it is good to see the Official Opposition

understand that there is great potential on the West Coast, unlike what I hear

from time to time from the Third Party. I just want to remind the Third Party,

before I get into my speech this afternoon, that between 1989 and 2012 the total

known expenditures by companies operating onshore and offshore in the Western

Newfoundland Region has been approximately $175 million. That is dollars that

can be invested in new roads, new construction, spin-off jobs, procurement, new

employment, but the real jobs and the real benefits, I say to the Third Party,

is when or if we get into production, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I just want to put this into context. I have made the West Coast

of Newfoundland my home for nearly the last twenty-five years. Indeed, for one

of those years, I spent it in Stephenville and had the opportunity while I was

in Stephenville to go down the Port au Port Peninsula on numerous occasions.

Since becoming elected, I have had the opportunity to go and visit and chat

with people on the Port au Port Peninsula, with my hon. colleague to my left

from the Port au Port district, and have sat and chatted with those people with

regard to potential development that can take place on the Port au Port and

indeed in the entire Western Region.

Mr. Speaker, I want to say from the start here today that I stand for

economic development on the West Coast and, in particular, on the Port au Port

Peninsula. I will further say, Mr. Speaker, that I support environmental

assessment that is appropriate for each development, whether onshore or

offshore, Mr. Speaker.

I have never believed that we should take a blanket approach on economic

development or indeed on environmental issues, Mr. Speaker. I strongly believe,

however, that the legislative responsibility be such that a great degree of

strength and control be obtainable for each and every development based on the

circumstances of that particular development.

Mr. Speaker, I have based my entire professional life for the most part on

theory and research and practice and believe then, as I do now and continue to

believe, that we cannot have one without the others; however, I have come to

learn that we must balance theoretical with the practical in every situation. As

well, Mr. Speaker, we must look closely at every situation because the

circumstances for one situation, although similar, could be very different. For

example, I believe that individual assessments must take place because of the

geographical differences, as an example, and the environmental differences

between Shoal Point, Sally's Cove, Lark Harbour, and Bottle Cove.

Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt that oil and gas exploration and development

have played a significant and monumental role in the economic growth of

Newfoundland and Labrador and Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. It may not be

the sole engine that drives the economy because there are other economic

drivers but without a doubt, it is indeed one of the largest propellers of

economic and personal growth for Newfoundland and Labrador and indeed,

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.

Much of that growth, Mr. Speaker, has been seen on the East Coast, as the

hon. Minister of Natural Resources spoke earlier, with all of the growth in our

offshore fields. That wealth has been distributed, as we all know, throughout

every region of the Province, but now, Mr. Speaker, the potential is there for

the West Coast of Newfoundland to contribute to the industry of oil and gas and

potentially to become a game changer for the region and indeed, the entire

Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

We have known, Mr. Speaker, for decades that the Province's West Coast

onshore and offshore areas contain the geophysical makeup to generate and trap

petroleum products. We must progress with that in mind. That potential has been

documented and researched by the Geological Survey of Canada and various

petroleum engineering firms to contain billions of barrels of oil.

We have seen, Mr. Speaker, various pieces of activity over the entire Western

region. Indeed, Minister Marshall has spoken to that earlier today. Over the

years, continued activity is necessary to lead to commercial production. That is

what we are talking about here today, Mr. Speaker.

It is very important to remember that the work in Newfoundland in onshore and

offshore areas has proceeded in accordance with stringent regulations and rules

that guide all aspects of petroleum drilling and production.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. GRANTER: Things do not happen, Mr. Speaker, by chance. They happen

successfully with solid planning and implementation.

The work that is to take place on the Port au Port Peninsula in the region

will be just like that.

The Minister of Environment, I hope, might get a chance to speak a little

later this afternoon and it might allow him to discuss in detail some of these

regulations already and currently in practice in Newfoundland and Labrador not

only to speak of the regulations, Mr. Speaker, but assert the strength of those

regulations and strength of his office in any and all environmental assessments

that take place throughout Newfoundland and Labrador.

I have always said, Mr. Speaker, that knowledge is an important thing. We

must inform our decisions based on real knowledge. Let me be clear, Mr. Speaker:

we must always make our decisions based on local conditions and situations

without having a blanket approach to development.

I have taken some time to review, Mr. Speaker, some of the information that

is out there and I will continue to do so over the coming weeks and the coming

months. We cannot dismiss an idea or development in the public until we have in

front of us what exactly constitutes that particular development. That is

important. There has been so much said over the last little while. A great deal

of it has been said by the Third Party.

Again, I want to repeat that: we cannot dismiss an idea or development in the

public until we have in front of us what exactly constitutes that particular

development, and the particular plans a proponent may or may not have. Until

then we should all wait and see what comes forward, Mr. Chair.

There is a saying that we stress ourselves over stressors that often do not

come to reality. Mr. Speaker, if we listened to the Third Party, we would expand

every single program in the Province, add new programs to the list on a daily

basis. We would have to say yes to every request, Mr. Speaker, but say no to the

economic drivers that would pay for the ever-growing list that they ask for.

The Government of Newfoundland and Labrador support a balanced approach to

economic development with the protection of the environment and safety of

workers as its highest priority. A balanced approach, Mr. Speaker, protection of

the environment, and safety of workers is our highest priority.

Mr. Speaker, we have already today placed and I want to stress this

stringent environmental regulations on the books that protect our valuable

resources. As I said earlier, and as the Minister of Natural Resources said

earlier, and the Minister of Environment will get a chance to speak to it in a

little while, these are on the books, they are very stringent, and they work,

Mr. Speaker.

Between the offshore regulator the C-NLOPB, the Department of Natural

Resources, and the Department of Environment and Conservation, we have many

tools already in our tool box of regulations that will look closely at the

potential exploration and potential development on the West Coast, Mr. Speaker.

That is something that all Newfoundlanders and Labradorians should keep in mind

when listening to topics on or about this particular development, or in fact

when we are discussing and talking fracking or some other stimulation methods.

This conversation taking place here today on the floor of this House, Mr.

Speaker, is an important step in getting information to the population on this

very important issue.

Mr. Speaker, the world is changing, and as it changes it is becoming smaller

and smaller as we speak. This government does not operate in a vacuum. It is

important to know and understand that we have had regulation in place for some

time in this Province that has overseen many of the large-scale developments

both onshore and offshore, particularly here on the East Coast; however,

amendments have been made from time to time, and that is important to remember.

Amendments have been made from time to time as we progress along the specific

line of exploration and development. This government, Mr. Speaker, continues to

review regulations from other jurisdictions, as the Minister of Environment may

get a chance to speak to in a little while.

To answer some of the questions put forth earlier this afternoon by the

Member for Bay of Islands, it is important there is no reason we as a

government cannot, under the current environmental assessment review process in

Newfoundland and Labrador, pull something from other jurisdictions,

jurisdictions in other regions of Canada, jurisdictions in other regions of the

United States, or jurisdictions, as I am currently reading, from New Zealand,

and superimpose them in our requirements as we move forward to receive the

developmental proposal from proponents.

There is confidence in the current regulations. Many have confidence in the

current regulations and legislations, like the environmental assessment act and

the water control act, and the sharing of information between authorities,

within government, between governments the national government and our

government and between agencies in our society.

Let us be clear here: if there are conditions that need to be added as we

develop not just one potential find on the West Coast, but potentially more than

one, under our current legislation, under our current regulations, and under our

jurisdictions, from New Brunswick, Quebec, other parts of Canada, the United

States, Australia, New Zealand, and indeed other parts of the world.

practices that are in other jurisdictions and indeed within industry, Mr.

Speaker. In fact, as the Minister of Natural Resources articulated earlier this

afternoon, our department is working with partners to ensure that any programs

on stimulation or fracturing are properly assessed to determine whether specific

multiple wells.

I am doing some reading, as I mentioned earlier, specifically now from New

Zealand and in other areas. The overwhelming conclusion that I see as I read is

that environmental risks associated with fracking can be managed effectively

and these are the key words: managed effectively; they can be managed

effectively with, as I have said first: one, best practices in the industry, and

two, regulation like our environmental assessment and water control act, along

with others.

This is even stronger, Mr. Speaker, especially when we add the power to

attach conditions to any proposed development, as we do have with our current

legislation in Newfoundland and Labrador through the Department of Environment

and Conservation. Again, I stress I am all for development, but within the realm

of doing it in a balanced approach, with the protection of the environment and

safety of workers being a strong pulse of whatever would take place. That is

what our regulations and legislation allow us currently to do and continue to

do, Mr. Speaker, in Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, we understand the concerns raised, but I hope this debate today

will assist everyone throughout Newfoundland and Labrador with thinking about

the issue not with blinders on, but with the full understanding and information

of the multiple levels of informed decisions, such as our government's

precautionary principle and approach to exploration and development. We will

ensure that any oil well, whether there is hydraulic fracturing or not, is

carried out safely and poses no danger to the people of Newfoundland and

Labrador, no danger to the environment, and that we keep in mind the care of all

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians and the communities in which they live, Mr.

Speaker.

After reading a fair bit and listening to many, I am confident in the current

regulations that we have presently in place; however, it is important to

continue to review regulations, policies, and developments in other

jurisdictions to determine if any changes or improvements are required, Mr.

Speaker. No application has been received to date for such exploration or

development related to fracturing on the West Coast of the Province, and I

suggest that the prudent thing to do, the right thing to do, and the responsible

thing to do, is to make our decisions for the people of Newfoundland and

Labrador when it is appropriate and when we are ready to do so, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. GRANTER: I see that my time has run out. I will conclude with that.

Thank you for the opportunity.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Member for St. John's East.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MURPHY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I take pleasure in rising in the House today to talk about fracking. We all

know that this is a good argument over industrial development and the

development of a resource. Again, when I stand up in the House and present a

petition it is because the people have concerns that need to be addressed, and

that is one of the reasons why we have to talk about fracking.

It is new. We know that it has been done, for example, since the 1860s. The

Minister of Natural Resources talked about it earlier that yes, in that respect,

fracking has been around for a while but back in the 1860s not only was it used

for oil, it was used for such things as the development and the extension of

water supply systems, for example, for water wells and that process was used,

but not necessarily using those particular chemicals that we are talking about

today. The whole process that we are talking about today is the advent of

something that is called slickwater fracking.

Slickwater fracking has been going ahead with reckless abandon since

1997-1998. Particularly I think the first well that was fracked using that was

actually done in the Eagle Ford basin Texas back then. Ever since then, it has

advanced to the point now where even places like North Dakota have seen

astronomical growth in oil production. I think last month it was recorded at

something in the order of 756,000 barrels a day of production compared to what

it was probably back in 2008 I think was the first figure I saw on that I

think it was somewhere around 38,000 barrels a day. That is how fast the

fracking phenomenon and how much of an impact it is having on shale oil

resources or basically on oil resources, and no doubt we are going to hear much

more about that in the future when it comes to discussions of oil prices.

We have to ask ourselves why we need protection, and it is exactly for that

reason. It is because it is only a new process, Mr. Speaker, that we have to put

up the alarm bells. That the people of the Port au Port Peninsula are putting up

alarm bells as regards to the process. That the people living up in the Gros

Morne area and Parsons Pond even are putting up alarm bells. The flags are

waving. They want protection from government for government to step in and

develop these regulations concerning a new process that pretty much leaves

everybody to question exactly what fracking is.

One of the concerns that I have heard over all of this, as regards to needing

that protection, is of course they want their water resources protected. They

want that 100 per cent assurance that there is not going to be any damage to

their water resources because so much can happen to water resources if these

things, these chemicals, for example, that are used in the slickwater process,

if it leaches back, for example, into water aquifers or water wells, if they

poison the water, if they ruin water. Certain things that happen during the

fracking process maybe the chemicals do not get back but it causes a release

of methane gas, particularly, that also has a tendency to ruin water supplies.

We have to remember that people have the right to clean water. Again, last

week we talked about it in the water motion that it was even covered by the

United Nation's Charter. I am surprised that we would be thinking about the

possibility that water supplies could be ruined, but they can.

We can turn to places like Rosebud, Alberta; we can talk about a case that I

was just reading about last week from National Public Radio, a lady and her

family had to move out of their premise in Pennsylvania and they ended up with a

$750,000 settlement because it ruined all of the water on their land. It caused

disruption for that particular family.

Again, there are a number of reasons why we need that protection. One of the

things that I was thinking about, in conversation with somebody in the Gros

Morne area and let's talk about the tourism protection because while the hon.

Member for Humber West was talking about $175 million that is being invested by

oil companies on the West Coast since 1989. The last number that I saw as

regards to the tourism industry investments that happen on a yearly basis, not

since 1989, but on a yearly basis, brings in approximately $200 million in

revenues to the tourism industry. We have pretty much around the year employment

from the tourism industry, be it if it is from skiing or adventure tourism.

Think about how much of a draw to the Province that Gros Morne National Park has

been and how much of an economic impact that it has had, even since 1989.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. MURPHY: It is in the billions of dollars if it is $200 million a

year. We cannot ignore that fact. We cannot ignore the fact that if fracking

happens within the Gros Morne area we are talking about the possibility of the

United Nations lifting World Heritage status. That is a direct concern of

tourism operators on the West Coast of the Province. Would it be a concern of

the provincial government? I would say yes. If it did not, it would bother me.

It certainly would.

I think that we have to have these protections in place for things like that,

for protection of the tourism industry, along with the protection of water. The

protection of an existing industry that is there now should come first and

foremost, paramount. The right to clean water, we all believe in that. We pas

Document details

Collection	Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	2013-03-27
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	2013-03-27
Language	en
Format	htm
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	43acebd194790055e45b61b7b3f6972f4b493d77

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (htm).