VOL. 2 PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD: 3:00 P.M. - 6:00 P.M. WEDNESDAY, MAY 25, 1983. NO. 47

Hay 25, 1983 Tape No. 2502 The House met at 3:00 P.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Order, please! MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS MR. ANDREWS: Mr. Speaker. JV - 1 MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment. MR. ANDREWS: Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to be able to present to the members of the House today copies of the n~w environmental education publication entitled Our Fresh Water Resources.

This new booklet is the latest in a series of publications that have been produced through a co-operative effort by the Environment Departments of Newfoundland and Labrador and the three Maritime Provinces. At present, the Department of Education is reviewing the publication and it will, I feel sure, give its approval to use the publication as a resource item in our schools. Copies have been sent to all school boards in the Province and we are having an excellent response from them to date. I have copies available for members of the House and for members of the Press who may be interested in receiving one.

I think this is a very worthwhile endeavour, Mr. Speaker, to heighten the environmental awareness of our school children in Newfoundland and it is a topic of great interest in the Province today. MR. HODD~R: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the member for Port au Port. 5323

May 25, 1983 Tape No . 2502 JV - 2 MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker 1I would like to thank the minister for a prio,r copy of the statement and a copy of the book, Our Fresh Water Resources . ~'!R. NEA 'RY: Did he autograph it? :r.m. HODDER: It was not autographed. MR. NEARY: It was not autographed'? Send it back to be autographed. MR . HODDER : Mr . Speaker, in the quick perusal which I did of the book 1 it seems to be the type of book which could be well used in the schools.

I noticed in looking tlhrough the book, however, while it talks about groUnd­ water and the uses of groundwater and. perhaps would create an awareness of the problems we face as far as our water resources are concerned, yet. it does not, in quick examination,deal with one of the major problems that we are facing,which is acid rain. l-'!R. ANDREWS: Yes , it does . 5324

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2503 MJ - 1 MR. HODDER: It deals ~lith acid rain in just a few paragraphs. I am not saying anything about the book in itself, it is good for what it will do; it will heighten awareness of the problem of groundwater and that in itself perhaps is a worthwhile project. I would like to see at some time in the near future the Atlantic Council of Ministers or the Council for the Atlantic Provinces do some specific work on the problem of acid rain and just the effects which we are suffering now and how to combat it. But, Mr. Speaker, for what it is 1 it is not a bad little pulblication.

ORAL QUESTIONS MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The han. the member for Fogo. MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Forest Resources and Lands (Mr. Power). It concerns the Bot11ater' s mill in Corner Brook and the degree of uncertainty that still exists as to its long-term future. Now, I know the shut-downs originally scheduled --~ have been put off until later in June. But, Mr.

Speaker, the Atlantic Provinces Economic Council listed eight pulp and paper mills in Atlantic Canada that are presently undergoing or in need of rrodern.ization. ~ese projects I understand,are to be undertaken sometime between 1981 and 1987. Out of those eight mills, seven are listed by the Atlantic Provinces Economic Council as rather likely to begin, that is,seven of them are either under construction or tenders called and work begun on them.

The eighth listed, however, is Bowater's in Corner Brook,and that is listed as a paper project and there seems to be some doubt as to the eventual feasibility of that modernization programme. I want to ask the minister is he aw·are of that report.? lbes any credence · in ;it or are the predictions of the Atlantic Provinces 5325

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2503 MJ ~ 2 MR. TULK: Economic Council untl;'-qe? In oth _er words 1will the modernization that is planned and needed in corner Brook between 1982 and 1986 take place or will it not? MR. NEARY: Good question. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. the Minister of Forest Resources and Lands. MR. POWER: Mr. ~peaker, as the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) says, it is a good question. It is nice to hear some questions about the forest industry in the Province and in particular about the Corner Brook and Bowater operations.

As' far as the Atlantic Provinces Economic Council report goes,we certainly are 1in the forest 1 industry aware of that report~ Whether they can make a judgement as to what Bowater will or will not do in five or six or seven year period, I guess anyone can make a judgement about that. Fr~ our point of view, as a government, we have been working very closely with the Bowate:r operations and the people involved since they came to us,I guess late last Fall,and announced that they were closing down :Number 7 machine and laying off in excess of 700 people. Since that time, and even before that 5326

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2504 SD - 1 MR. POWER: time, I guess, but certainly since that time we have been doing everything possible as a government to reduce the effects of the shutdown of . that machine and, of course, the overall newsprint shutdowns and the closedowns that have been taking place both in Corner Brook and in such places like Glenwood, where we now have some active forestry operations trying to, I guess, take up the slack, if you would. Certainly when it comes to modernization of the pulp and paper industry in all of Eastern Canada,there probably are more than eight mills involved.

The federal government and the company in Corner Brook signed an agreement, I guess in 1981, saying that in excess of $100 million was necessary to modernize the Corner Brook operation along. In Eastern Canada there would be in excess of $2 billion required to modernize the pulp and paper industry. All of the companies involved in the oldest

section of the newprint industry in North America are for the most

part in Eastern Canada. Because we started in the newsprint industry first,therefore we are now obviously the oldest: Our machines are older, the certainly waste a lot more energy, they waste a lot more wood fiber than the newer machines,such as the one in Stephenville which is one of the best in the world. When it comes to what exactly Bowaters will do in Corner Brook, Mr. Speaker, we cannot be sure. We do have a commitment from the Chief Executive Officer of Bowaters in North America, Mr.

Garnrnie, that a modernization programme for Corner Brook is very badly needed, that they are working on a plan to modernize and to stabilize and 1 I guess 1 to put on a long-term basis the mill in Corner Brook. He has told us point-blank that that kind of money required 1 which 5327

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2504 so - 2 MR.

POWER: in Corner Brook would be in the range of $250 million I will not and cannot COme from the companies alone in the next four or five years~ that during this downtime which will probabJ,.y begin to, I guess, become profitable from a company point of view again in late 1985 or 1986 1 they will generate some money from 1985, 1986 to the years 1990, 1991, when the next down turn in the newsprint industry might be expected 1 but during that period of four of five years of up time, if you want, they are not going to generate the $250 million necessary to modernize Corner Brook.

Aild they are saying to us that somewhere down the road from 1985 to 1990, if they get in a position where they can look at a $250 million modernization programme 1 they are going to require the assistance of both the provincial and federal governments. MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker. 5328

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2505 NM - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The han. member for Fogo. MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, the Premier obviously expressed the same feeling of uncertainty about Bowater's in Corner Brook, because in a letter to Mr.

Gammie on February 17, he wrote, "I indicated", and this was referring to a letter of January 19, "that we wish to obtain sufficient information from Bowater North American Corporation which would assure us of your long-term commitment to maintain and upgrade the mill at Corner Brook." Now the question for the minister is, has the ,assurance of that long '-term commitment been received by the government or is the uncertainty as to whether Bowater's is going to carry out that modernization in Corner Brook that is vitally needed still in place?

In other words,is the whole future of the Corner Brook mill still up in the air somewhat? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Forest Resources and Lands. MR. POWER: Mr. Speaker, it is fair to say for anyone involved in the newsprint industry these days that things are not as good as people would like them to be. In all of our discussions with Bowater's, both with Mr. Gammie, Mr. Culbertson down in the Southern part of the US, and Mr.

Clarke and his people in C~rner Brook, in all of our discussions since the announcement of the closedown of Number 7 machine, we have tried to emphasize to Bowater executives three very irr.portant issues. One is the fact- -of sharing of down-time. We have tried to impress upon the Bowater executives the fact . that Corner Brook, Newfoundland, should not take the brunt of all of the market down-time that Bowater's worldwide has and that therefore the mill in Mersey, ~ova Scotia, the ··two mills one irCCalhoun and -one in Catawba in the Southern US should all take

part in the sharing . ·: ·· 5329

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2505 NM - 2 MR. POWER: of down-time. I think the recent announcement in Corner Brook that shutdowns, or slow-downs are ~ing postponed sort of from one week to the next, shows that the Bowater executives have taken , I quess,the pressure from the Newfoundland Government and have said, "We will try and share down-time as much as we possibly can between all of our operators," and I think that can be very easily proven, - - . -·· that all of Bowater's operations are sharing down-time. The second important feature that we tried to impress upon - MR.

TOLK: Corner Brook is getting a bigger share of the market. MR. POWER: Well 1 the market is picking up generally but also the fact that Corner Brook is getting a fairer share of that pickup than they were getting six months ago. The second major 1I guess 1obstacle which we tried to overcome with Bowater's was their silvicultural agreement,which they havesigned with the Province 1which would have shown to anyone involved in forest management that they were planning on staying in Newfoundland for a long time and planning on running a good 5330

.. ~-1ay 25, 1983 Tape 2506 PK - 1 MR. POWER: operation. They announced 1 I guess also late last Fall 1 that they would have no money at all to put into silviculture in 1983-1984. After much deliberation and discussion with the Premier, .the members for the area and myself, they committed $625,000 to silviculture this year, albeit that is less than the $3 million that they had planned, but it does show that even during very rough times they are willing to take $625,000 worth of profit and put back into the forest base.

The third thing that we emphasize 1 which is what the question relates to is 1 do you have a long-term plan for Corner Brook? The Bowater officials said that they had a long-term plan, but they do not have money. The long-term plan was one which was certainly not ~ HR. TULK: That is not true. MR. POWER: It is a plan obviously relating to the fact of the economy and the newsprint industry. They say,yes, we want to modernize Corner Brook but we need a tremendous amount of money to do it.

The closedown of No. 7 machine came as a result of a commitment by the Bowater Board of Directors to spend $150 million modernizing Corner Brook, a decision that was made in 1982 after they signed that mill-modernization agreement with the federal government. rm. BAIRD: How many million? . MR. POWER: It was $150 million. rm. BAIRD: Agreement. I MR. POWER: Oh, it was only $12 million, I think,of the total. But they found that even though they had made an agreement or made a commitment in 1982 to modernize the mill in Corner Brook , that because 5331

May 25, 1983 Tape 2506 PK - 2 MR. POWER: of the downturn in the market world-wide and cash flow problems that Bowater Corporation had 1that they could not do that in 1983. So in a feasibility study , looking at $150 million commitment to modernize, they went totally in the other direction and said, 'Not only can we not modernize, not only can we not maintain the status quo 1 but we should close down the No. 7 machine/which they eventually did.

When it comes to getting a definite , definitive plan from the Bowater Corporation executives about modernization , they talk in very general terms~ They talk about. putting in two new machines instead of four old machines, ~hey talk about $250 million needed somewhere down the road between 1985 and 1990, But they have not made a definite commitment to modernize, but they do have,certainly in the overall plan of the Bowater Corporation both world-wide,in North American,.and in Newfoundland, a commitment to modernize their mills.

They do have a commitment to Corner Brook and all of the indications that we have from them is that they will be in Corner Brook for a long time to come. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : MR. TULK: The hon. member for Fogo. A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. The minister has indicated that the Bowater Corporation have ~lans but no money. Well 1I have several plans for my own personal things if I only had the money to do it.

But let me ask the minister this question; he indicated that the government has applied pressure in a numbe~ of cases, yet in the Estimates Committee the minister told me that he could not even get at the financial records of Bowaters, they would not release them to him. Now let ask him how is the pressure being applied? Are there any ongoing discussions between the government, the company and the union concerning the modernization of the Bowater mill/ 5332

t-1ay 25, 1983 Tape 2506 PK - 3 t-1R. TULK: and now that we have seen the upturn in the paper market, are Bowaters now saying to the government that they are willing to take advantage of the modeEnization programme that was •signed with the federal government some two years ago, I believe, or are they still saying that they are not going to modernize that plant at all,that they are going to leave it as is and let it deteroriate further than it already has in comparsion to the rest of the mills in Atlantic Canada or indeed in North America? 5333

May 25, 1983 Tape 2507 EC - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Russel l) : The hon. the Minister of Forest Resources and Lands. MR. POWER: Mr. Speaker, as I said in the estimates 90rnrnittee that we were on, I am not a Bowater executive, I can only answer from what the government has, whatever information we have, whatever facts we have which we gather from many sources; both from corporations 1 such as Bowaters,and from some of their competitors we gain information about the newsprint industry worldwide. So I can only say to you , Mr.

Speaker, the information that we have is one that we interpret, that we get from =Y different angles, it is just no~ Bowater information. We do have a definite commitment from Bowaters that in the next two to three years, which are to be very bad times, at least until 1985, they are going to spend $5 million to maintain the capital equipment in the Bot-Tater mill to make sure it · stays at a fairly efficient level.

They have told us point-blank that the mill modernization and pollution abatement agreement,which was announced by the federal government, by the way, in 1979 and offered to certain other provinces,such as Ontario, which took advantage of the agreement at the peak of newsprint production, had it been offered to Bowaters in 1979 then Bowaters might have been involved in a massive modernization' programme in the range of $125 million, but because it was not offered to Bowaters until 1982,when the newsprint industry was at its bottom pretty well, Bowaters could not take advantage of the federal/provincial agreement which was signed relating to that mill modernization.

In ·that old agreement was a system whereby for every one dollar put in by the federal government, there would be seven dollars put in by the 5334

May 25, 1983 Tape 2507 EC - 2 MR. POWER : companies. And again, as the meltlber mentioned· starting off .-he has lots of plans but no money to do it chat was exactly the situation with Bowaters and several other newsprint producers in Eastern canada, that they had lots of plans but they did not have the money to match, and simply by the federal government saying, 'We will give you $12 million if you can find $90 million of your own,1 the company just said, 'We cannot find in 1982 and early 1983 that $90 million required by us. ' And Mr.

Ganunie told us point-blank in one of our meetings in Montreal that i£ they are going to modernize Corner Brook, then the.y can only do it on a different cost­ sharing arrangement; they cannot do it on a one to seven kind of ratio, it has to be closer to a fifty-fifty or sixty-forty kind of split, not a seven to one. 5335 ,.

May 25, 1983 MR. TULK: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : MR. TULK: Tape No. 2508 MJ - 1 A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. The hon. the member for Fogo. The minister just mention that Bowater say that1given the amount of money that the federal government has agreed to provide for moderization of that mill1 they cannot modernize the mill, they cannot find the remainder of the capital funds themselves.

Let me ask him a supplementary question that as Minister of Forestry he should have some answer to: How· much Bo~-Ta ter are willing to put in, what is the federal government willing to put in,and what is the Province willing to put in in terms of the funds that are needed to modernize that mill? What is the cost1first of all,of the modernization and has he explored the possibilities with Bowater as to just exactly what the sum is? I recall that the Premier said that the $5 million was insufficient for Bowater to put in, he did not believe that was enough for them to put in.

Just what is it that the government believes that Bowater should put in, what should they put they put in themselves and what should the federal government put into that modernization plan? MR. POWER: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the ~Unister of Fo;rest Resources and Lands. MR. PO'Iil'ER: Mr. Speaker, just let me try and summarize the problems relating to Corner Brook. They have a short-term problem relating to newsprint markets, and general cash flow problems in the Bowater Corporation worldwid~.

In that overall situation,they have committed on the short-term to keep $5 million to make sure the equipment is kept at a certain workable level. To maintain the staus quo it'would take $5 million to keep that plant at an operation level. In the long-term, Bm·rater needs 5336

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2508 MJ - 2 HR. Pm'VER: $250 million somewhere down the road to modernize Corner Brook. They have · told us that they will not be able to generate that kind of capital in the next upswing in the newsprint industry,which is expected between 1985 and 1990. They have asked us as a government would we be interested in getting involved in a modernization programme.

We have told then unequivocally, yes, we as a provincial government are willing to get involved in a modernization programme with the indust~ provi~ed, as was the agreement that was signed in 1979, the federal govern.rrent ~..-auld also be involved. Again, you have to realize that there is no specific request in to either the Canadian or Newfoundland government, that I am aware of, asking for help in modernizing.

They are saying that if things turn ~round in Corner Brook and the worldwide newsprint market 1 we will want to modernizeithen we will go and you for a certain amount of money.But that has not happened to this date. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Order, please! I wonder could I just interrupt the han. member for a minute? I would like to welcome to the galleries fifty seamen from the Soviet Union who are here in port while their ship is being repaired on dry dock. Not being versed in the Russian language,I will recognize the hon. the member for St. John's North (Mr.

Carter) who would like to ~<Tel come these peo!Jle to our galleries. MR. CARTER: (IN T~lSLATION FROM RUSSIAN.} In the name of our government, I welcome you. We·often forget that we are neighbours along our Northern boundary. We are all happy to see you here, On this side are Progressive Conservatives and on the other side are Liberals. You have just been listening to the Question period. 5337

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2509 SD - 1 SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear, hear. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. Leader of the Opposition . MR. 'NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman should stick to that language. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: He sounded much better, Mr. Speaker, than he ordinarily does. But we too would like, through the interpreter to welcome the Russian seamen to the people's House, to the House of Assembly. I am sure, Mr. Speaker, that they will feel quite at home when they look down at the .size of the Opposition here.

I am sure the size of the Opposition here is about the same now as it is in Russia. And they might also take note that the answers that we are getting to our questions are about the same, Mr. Speaker, as you get in the Soviet Union. But , nevertheless , we would like to welcome these seamen and hope that they will enjoy themselves and that they will see democracy in action, Mr. Speaker. MR. TULK: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Supplementary, the hon. member for Fogo. MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, the minister has indicated that $250 million is needed for Bowaters.

He has indicated that they are willing to get involved. He has also said that,if things turn around, Bowaters have indicated that they ··wo-uld get involved. Now I would like to ask him how are-things to turn around in Corner Brook if modernization does not take place in Corner Brook and is taking plac-: :!.n other mills? But let me put another - .. question to him which concerns the marketing for Bowaters. It is my understanding that the European Economic Council has agreed to allow the newsprint from Scandinavian countries duty free access to other European countries oy January 1, 5338

May 25, 1983 Tape No . 2509 SD - l MR. TULK: 1984, and I understand that Bowaters sells a great deal of it.s ne\-rsprint to the European countries. Could the minister tell us \oJhat effect this wili have on the f utqre operations of Bowater in Corner Brook? In other words, will the situation in Corner Brook further deteriorate in regards to markets as of January 1? 5339

May 25, 1983 Tape 2510 EC - 1 MR. POWER: The hon. the Minister of Forest Resources and Lands. MR. POWER: Mr. Speaker, again, just let me reiterate what I said, that just because Bowaters does not spend $250 million or commit themselves to $250 million this year does not mean that Bowaters cannot have a viable oper .ation for the next ten to twenty years.

All that means is that they are going to find it more difficult to make profits in comparison to what a mill like Stephenville can rnake,because of a massive modernization plan which Stephenville has gone through and because, obviously, the Stephenville plant is more efficient and uses less wood per ton of newsprint corning out, it uses less man-hours per ton of newsprint and obviously that means they can make more profit once, of course, they pay off their capital investment.

So Bowaters can get through and become very viable,after this down-turn in the newsprint industry,with minimum amounts of money for modernization - and it is really not even modernization, it is just upkeep and maintenance money that they will have to use. After that point in time, if Bowaters continues or is to continue in ~orth America and in Newfoundland to produce newsprint, obviously, then they have to spend a massive amount of money and that is where the $250 million figure comes iri.

As it relates to the marketing­ of Bowater _ newsprint, obviously the problems that Bowater are going to experience in Europe, where some Corner Brook newsprint goes, are not going to be any different from those any other exporter of newsprint from North America or outside the European Economic Community is going to have to live with when they allow Scandinavian newsprint in there at a reduced rate of tariff. Now, what that means worldwide, Mr. Speaker, and what it should mean to 5340

May 25, 1983 Tape 2510 EC - 2 MR. POWER: Corner Brook, is that the marketing arm of the Bowater Corporation is going to have to become more diligent and seek out markets in the _u.s. and in other parts of the world for Corner Brook newsprint.

It was only in 1979 that the Bowater Corporation decided, for whatever reasons, to channel most of the Corner Brook newsprint into the European newsprint market, ·.'Ihat does not mean that that trend cannot be reversed, and de have argued the case many times with all of the executives of Bowaters that there is no reason in the world why Bowater Corner Brook newsprint cannot be sold in the United States, in other parts of Canada, in Mexico, in Asia. Well, they have.

I think maybe one of the reasons they have not taken as much down-time this Spring as they had intended is the fact that they have found markets, I think, ib parts of South America, in Mexico and parts of Asia where they were not traditional sellers of newsprint, but not as much in the United States where the big market obviously is. But if conditions deteriorate in the European market, then obviously the Bowater people, in order to keep all of their operations alive, are going to have to increase their marketing activity and particularly in the U.S. also. MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker. 5341

May 25, 1983 Tape 2511 PK - 1 MR. SPEAKER {Russell) : The hon. member for Fogo. MR. TULK: The minister has indicated that it will be more difficult for Bowater to make profits if they· do not modernize their mill, and that is obviously the case1than it will be for other mills. I would like to point out to him that I do not believe that Bowater is going to stay in Corner Brook out of love for the people, they are only going to stay there if they can make a profit there as well as they could somewhere else. Mr. Speaker, let me ask the minister another question, and it is in relation to the silviculture programme,.

I understand that Bowater had intended originally to use some ~3,084,000 in silviculture and that has now been reduced to $625,000 for 1983. And1 according to Mr. Gammie again,that placed considerable strain on their road programme. Now is Mr. Gammie then saying that instead of spending money on roads, they are really not going to spend any money on roads,they are going to spend it on the silviculture programme instead and have a downgraded road programme or perhaps no road programme. Just where is he getting the $625,000? MR. SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Forest Resources and Lands. MR. POWER: Mr.

Speaker, again I can only say that I am not an executive in charge of Bowater financing. I say to you that we went as a government and got a commitment when they said there were no dollars available for silviculture, and I think everyone in this Province knows what this government have done for silviculture in the last four or fivE;! years - SOME HON:MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. POWER: -·~here we have gone from 200,000 seedlings in 1979 to 5 million this year. 5342

May 25, 1983 Tape 2511 PK - 2 MR. POWER: It is a massive jump that we have made a major programme that this Province has taken to make sure that that resource is kept in fairly good shape because of, I guess, a long history of mismanagement of our wood resource and also the spruce budworm epidemic from 1971 until now. But certainly , Mr. Speaker, where that $625,000 comes from is something that Bowater has to find.

When they told us that they would try and save it from the road pogramme,we became very concerned as a government because what that would indicate to us as forest managers is that Bowate~ if they are not going to spend $625,000 on a planned road programme , it means tpat they have to cut wood closer to the mill or closer to where they now have existing roads. We thought that that might be a kind of an operation whereby they would not cut as much spruce budworm·killed timber as possible, as we want them to cut, and therefore might start cutting healthy second growth timber,which we would not allow.

We have learned from Bowater through our negotiations and discussions that their harvesting programme this year is going to have to be readjusted anyway to take into account about 100,000 cords of this four-eyed bark beetle timber which was killed fairly close to Baie Verte and where there is a fairly good existing road system now. So they probably would not have had to spend as much money on roads this year as they had intended anyway because of this new problem that we have. ~m. TULK: Have they any money in for roads? MR. POWER: ~1R. TULK: Oh, yes. How much? 5343

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2512 SD - 1 MR. POWER: I have seen the figure of $2 million,but I co~ld not guarantee that, Mr. Speaker. I would have to co~firm that with some of my officials and with the Bowater people. But I have seen a figure of $2 million that is a road figure. Nhether it is all for this year or part of next year. I do not know1 but I can certainly find it out for you. But certainly they will have a roads programme and they will have a silvicultural programme. Neither of the programmes will be at the level that we wish them to be at.

The silvicultural programme, particularly, we havedecided to put into abeyance this year1the agreement that we signed last year which would have required $12 million being spent over a five year period. We intend, Mr. Speaker, to put that agreement into abeyance for just this year and that next year, should the conditions of market and profits change somewhat 1 then we will certainly be going back to the Bowater and Abitibi corporations to make sure they continue with their commitments for silviculture in this Province. MR. TULK: MR. SPEAKER (.Russell}: for Fogo. MR. TULK: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, the han. member Mr. Speaker, the minister keeps making the point that he is not an executive of Bowaters, 1'1e are well aware of that, he is the Minister of Forest Resources and Lands in this Province and it seem to me that perhaps Bowaters is ignoring him somewhat. I think he admitted as much in the Estimates Committee. I have a final supplementary for him. In the Estimates Committee, some month and a half ago , the minister was unable to guarantee the long-term viability of the mill in Corner Brook. Is that still the case,that the minister cannot 5344

,May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2512 SD - 2 MR. TULK: guarantee the long-term viability of the mill,or have the conditions changed substantially to now ensure the future of the Corner Brook mill and to ensure that the people of Coiner Brook and indeed, practically, a lot of Central and Western Newfoundland 1th~t their future is there in the pulp and paper industry? MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The han. Minister of Forest Resources and Lands. MR. POWER: Mr.

Speaker, unfortunately I do not have a crystal ball,like the member of the Opposition has or the Opposition has 1to be able to predict what might happen ten or twelve or twenty years down the road. I can only say the things I have said, that ~he newsprint industry has gone through I guess two of the roughest years that have ever been had in the newsprint industry. Bowater 'is still in existance, it is still operating, it is still viable. It is not operating to the capacity or the level of production that we would like as a provincial government.

The Bowater Corporation,rather than deny or ignore this government 1 have in every way co-operated with this government to make sure that they do have an operation, that they do have a silvicultural programme, that they have got as much up-time in Corner Brook this year as is possible. They are developing a long-term plan which will be in place for the Corner Brook mill. There are very substantial benefits and advantages which Bowater Newfoundland has which nobody else has.

The wood, their power corporation in Deer Lake which supplies the mill, the good and experienced labour force that they have , all of those things are advantages which are going to keep Bowater, or somebody else 1 operating in Newfoundland producing newsprint. I can only say to you that what I am convinced or what anyone in this Province is convinced will ha~pen 5345

May 29, 1983 Tape No. 2513 NM - 1 MR .. POWER: , in twenty years time are simply matters of judgement and guess. I can only say that1certainly from our departmental point of view and from the government point of view, we have made a judgement that there is going to be a newsprint industry in Newfoundland. All the money that we are putting into silviculture, all the money that we are putting into infrastructure,says to us that we are going to have a very viable industry thirty or forty years down the road. I would see Corner Brook, Grand Falls and Stephenville, and other communities in Newfoundland, playing a very active

part in that revitalized forest industry. However, before that happens there are going to be another couple of years of pretty rough going. But I certainly am optimistic, as I think everybody is, that down the road Bowater is going to be in Corner Brook and you are going to have a very viable mill there, albeit it is going to take a ldlt of co-opera.tion from both lev:els of government and from the company itself. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. member for Fogo. MR. TULK: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, we on this side of the House hope that Bowater is there too but it seems to me that in a number of cases the minister is uncertain as to what is going to happ~n. He has now indicated to us that Bowater is putting forward a modernization plan for. the mill ' but he is unable to tell us, and the question I would ask him, when is he going to get that plan,and what about that committee that was set up in Corner Brook,in·place of an industrial enquiry that was or~ginally asked for in Corner Brook1about the Bowater mill?

But is he going to get his moderni·zation plan and what progress is the committee making in keeping the Bowater plant viable? Just what are they doing, could he report to us on _that? 5346

~::. .. • May 29, 1983 Tape No. 2513 NM·- 2 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The han. Minister of Forest Resources and Lands. MR. POWER: Mr.

Speaker, the committee of Cabinet is involced and a committee of officials and certainly there is going to be a liaison committee set up with the major organizations in Corner Brook1su~ as the unions, the council, the Chamber of Commerce and others, and we will be keeping those persons informed and co-operating with those persons in every way possible to not only alleviate the problems already caused by Bowater, but to make sure that Bowater Corner Brook works as much as is possible in the worldwide newsprint system. Whether'we get a modernization plan tomorrow or next month from Bowater is not a crucial factor.

What is crucial is the fact that Bowater becomes and stays viable for the next couple of years. There is, as the member said - I himself, a plan, but there is no money. So whether they show us the plan tomorrow is not going to make the plan effective tomorrow. It is going to be at least five or six years before Bowater Corporation finds itself in a position where they will be able to come to the levels of government involved and ask for assistance in modernizing Corner Brook. So that plan does not have to be presented to government today for Bowater t.o have a committment to Corner Brook, Newfoundland.

The commitment is there in the silvicultural programme this year, the commitment is there from Bowater to keep as much up-time as is possible in the overall Bowater network of newspring producing mills, the commitment is there to have a plan when the plan is practical to put into effect. To have the plan before that is simply 5347

May 25, 1983 Tape No, 2514 MJ "" 1 MR. POWER: nothing more,I suppose,than a dream. In the case of Bowater they have told us, and w·e accepted and we believe it,that they have a long-term commitment to Corner Brook, :·re believe there is no place cheaper in the world for them to make newsprint right now than there is .i,n the mill in Corner Brook.

They cannot go out and spend $150 million in Calhoun or Catawba and put in a new newsprint machine; they can make newsprint per ton a lot cheaper in Corner Brook because they have the infrastructure there, because they have people, they have powe~, they have wood and they can do it cheaper in Corner Brook for the next ten years.

It is the point beyond that that obviously causes some concern. !·!e, in all conce _rn, on this side o;f the House ha ve certainly been reassured by the people in Bowater and reassured :from the overall newsprint markets in the world that 1 in that ten year period 1 money will become available to modernize and therefore Corner Brook will be around f'or a very :J.,ong time. MR. TULK: MR. SPEAKER (Russell ) : MR. TULK: Mr , Speaker. The hon. the member for Fogo. Mr. Speaker, the minister has indicated that what is important for Bowater is to stay viable for the next two years.

Now the next two years wi .ll be 1985 1 and yet he also said a few minutes ago that he expec~s to see another downturn in 1985 or 1986. MR. POWER : No, I said it would be over. MR. TULK: You said it a ;few minutes ago, that you expected to see a downturn in the world market- smm HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. TULK: - in 1986 you said. Hansard will show that. And h.e also points out to us that indeed the plan is a dream and it is not necessary unti:J., . such time as Bowater finds itself in a position to put that plan 5348

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2514 MJ ~ 2 MR. TULK: in place, Now, let ~e ask the minister this: Is he telling this House that it will be another five or six years before he gets any plans from Bowater as to what they intend to do in Corner Brook? MR,. NEARY: MR,. POWER: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Resources and Lands. That is what he is saying. Mr, Speaker. The hon, the Hinister of :Forest MR. POWER: Mr. Speaker, let me back u~ again just one more time.

The newsprint industry is forecasted by all of the persons who know anything about the industry to have an upturn in 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991 1 and there will be, if the cyclical nature of the newsprint industry repeats itself as it historically has done, that there will be another downturn in the news~rint industry in the early part of the 1990s.

During that period there has to be money and a very detailed plan put in place to modernize all of the older newsprint mills in Eastern Canada, The plan in going to cost somebody in excess of $2 billion 1 and it has to be done if those newsprint operations are going to viable in the late 1990s and on into the next century. lf that is to happen, _Mr. Speaker, money has got to come from several sources, from the companies and from both levels of government certainly,the provincial and federal levels.

NOW that is something which both levels of government have been committed to, the federal government by announcing a modernization agreement in 1979 1 and the Premier and I by announcing, 5349

May 25, 1983 Tape 2515 EC - 1 MR. POWER: on behalf of this Province that we would be willing to get involved in a modernization programme for Corner Brook,or for.Grand Falls, for that matter. We have done that, Mr. Speaker. We think the mill is going to be there. The plan is not just a dream. I do not want the news media or anybody else in the Province to say that Bowater has a dream for Corner Brook. I said a plan, and a plan that does not have money and is not meant to be put into effect immediately can easily be perceived as a dream. Bowaters has a plan to modernize. They need money.

The plan will not come into effect until 1987 or sometime in the timeframe of 1986 to 1988; then it becomes a plan,which is a plan to modernize and to stay in Corner Brook so that we have a very viable newsprint industry in all that part of Western Newfoundland. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Order, please! The time for Question Period has expired. PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES MR. ROBERTS: MR. SPEAKER: Strait of Belle Isle. MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker. The han. the member for the Mr.

Speaker, it is with a very great deal of pleasure that I present to the House and lay upon the table the report of the Public Accounts Committee for the financial year or on the report of the Auditor General for the financial year, 1980-1981, which ended on 31 March 1981. The Committee's report, Mr. Speaker, has nineteen separate recommendations in it dealing with matters on which the Committe~ heard evidence and had discussion at our public hearings. I would commend these to members and particularly to the ministry in the hope that they will 5350

May 25, 1983 Tape 2515 EC - 2 MR. ROBERTS: be reviewed and hopefully acted upon. I should add as well, Mr. Speaker, that there . is attached as an-appendix to this report, the report of the 1979-1980 Public Accounts Committee. The Committee which prepared that report, of course, dissolved with the dissolution of the House in the Spring of 1982. '!he present Committee consulted the parliamentary authorities and were advised that the appropriate method was to attach their report as an appendix to ours and that is what we have done.

So there are actually two separate Public Accounts Committee reports in this docume,nt covering two separate Public Accounts themselves. May I add in conclusion, Mr. Speaker, that the Public Accounts Committee is now up-to-date in that we are now holding hearings on the most recent report of the Auditor General and that is for the year ending 1981-1982. It is our hope, it is our plan to be able to report on those hearings, report on the Auditor General's report for the year ending 31 March 1982 before the conclusion of this calendar year.

Whether we make it or not remains to be seen 1 but we are now up-to-date, we are on schedule, and we hope and plan to be able to present the House with a report-before the end of this calendar year. I want to close by thanking· not 5351

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2516 NM- 1 MR. ROBERTS: only my colleagues on the committee who worked very hard to make this report the excellent one that I believe it is, but to thank our support staff, including our clerk, and the Hansard staff, and our researcn officer; much of the merit of this report, Mr. Speaker, I say without any qualification, is the result of their work. We could not have done it without them. There are copies for the members and for the press, of course, Sir. MR. BAIRD: the former one. MR. NEARY: You are a better Chairman than The two reports are in one . PRESENTING PETITIONS: MR.

SPEAKER (Russell) : of Belle Isle. MR. ROBERTS : The hon. member for the Strait Mr. Speaker, I will not enter into the badinage between my friend from Humber West (Mr. Baird), and my friend from LaPoile (Mr.:~ary), but I will say that last night's hearing of the ' PAC had the best Vice-Chairman that we have had in some considerable time in the.presence of the gentleman from St. Mary's-The Capes (Mr. Hearn), and in the absence of my friend. Mr. Speaker, I would like to present a petition on behalf of 1800 of my constituents.

These are men and women who live in the communities between Cook's Harbour and Goose Cove, and while the communities are not signed to the signatures on this petition these names are of the men and women who live in the communities outside St. Anthony. I do not think there are many from St. Anthony itself, doubtless because the_petition was not circulated in that community. I have no doubt it speaks for the people in that community. I have no doubt,in fact,it speaks for every man and women and every child in that part of my district. 5352

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2516 NM- 2 MR. ROBERTS: The petition was taken up, Mr. Speaker, by the White Bay North Development Association. And I am glad to see that the MLnister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe) is here in his seat because,of course,the subject matter of this petition falls within his departmental responsibilities. I think the best and most succinct way to state the prayer of this petition is to simply read the covering letter which came to me from Mr. Scott Simms who is the co-ordinator with the development association.

He simply says, "Enclosed herewith is a petition signed by approximately 1800 community residents from Cook's Harbour to Goose Cove. These people believe that more," and I have added the words "more of the monies which are being spent in this Province on transportation should be allocated for this area. These roads are in desperate need of upgrading and paving. "We trust that you will present this petition to the House of Assembly and let other members know that we demand to be treated equally and fairly as other areas of Newfoundland." Mr.

Speaker, since this petition was circulated, and since it was signed by this very large number of men and women, there has of course been t~ announcement and a very welcome one it was, of the federal/ provincial programme, I am not sure what it is called but the money is coming federally through the Ministry of Transport __ and provincially .through the Department of Transportation, the programme to build and to pave a number of roads in this Province including, in particular, the road which runs North from the main highway through the communities of St.

Lunaire and Gr~quet and on out to the community of L'Anse-au-Meadow and through several other communities. 5353

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2517 JV -1 MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker,that is a terrific programme, it is a terrific project and, of course, in

part it meets the needs to which these petitioners refer in this petition and I would welcome that and I would congratulate the minister and above all the Premier on their success in negotiating it. It just shows what can be done when they are willing to be reasonable and I would commend as well the Government of Canada who will be putting up, as I recall it, 75 per cent of the cost of this programme and accordingly should get 75 per cent of the credit. The Province is putting up 25 per cent and should get 25 per cent of the credit and that is the way it ought to be. Mr.

Speaker, there are, however, a number of other roads in the area which require upgrading and paving and I would not want any member of the Hous~ Sir,to have the impression,mistaken as it would be,that the federal/provincial project to pave the road down to L'Anse-au-Meadow meets the need in full, it does not, Sir. The road to Cook's Harbour has to be upgraded and paved as do the roads to Raleigh and Ship Cove, the road to Quirpon, the road which runs to Great Brehat, St. Carols and St. Anthony Bight and the road to Goose Cove, in all, Sir, some fifty to sixty kilometers of'road.

Those roads are in execrable condition. I would venture - I have not driven on every road in the Province recently of course, but I would venture there are no roads in this Province in worse shape than those and these are roads that men and women use everyday to get back and forth to work; children use to get back and forth to school and men, women and children use to get back and forth to hospital and to recreational and 5354

-~ May 25, 198-3 Tape No. 2517 JV - 2 MR. ROBERTS: shopping facilities. Mr. Speaker, it is a fact that sinc.e 1971 this administration and its predecessor-and they are birds of a feather in this sense - that this administration and its p:J;"edecessor has not initiated or carried through one,single,provincially funded project in this entire area. They have spent some money but only on federal/provincial projects,and in each case they had to be dragooned and bludgeoned into going along with it as I know better than most. Mr.

Speaker, as I have repeatedly said, and I know my time is drawing to a close so I will conclude, as I have repeatedly said, the needs of the people in this part of this Province, Sir, are as great as the needs of any people in this Province. There may 5355. \

May 25, 1983 Tape 2518 PK - 1 MR. ROBERTS: well be some whose needs are as great, but I say without any fear of contradiction, Sir, that there are no people whose needs for road improvements are any greater than these people. They have been ignored, in my view,deliberately. They have been ignored by the government of this Province for ten or eleven years now. In fairness and in ~ty Sir, they deserve a fair share of the monies the Province can afford for road construction. They do not deserve it all, they do not deserve none, but they do deserve a fair share and they are not getting it. I ask the government, Mr.

Speaker, in receiving this peti~ion which I lay on the table of the House, I ask the government to recant, not to admit the error or their ways, I do not want them to repent publicly, I ask them to recant and to do what they ought to do which is treat every citizen of this Province fairly and decently,something that they have not don 'e up to now. This government is fond of telling us that the people of Canada must treat the people of this Province fairly and decently as I believe they must. I say, Mr.

Speaker, that the government of this Province ought to do the same for all of the people of this Province and they can show it clearly by heeding the prayer of this petition, Sir. I commend it to the House. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : MR. DAWE: Hear, hear! The han. Minister for Transportation. Mr. Speaker, I have no hesitation in supporting the prayer of the petition as I have indeed and as this administration has done with similar petitions that have been presented to this House by members from all parts of the Province.

I will just indicate again, of course, that the number of roads that remain unpaved in this Province 5356

May 25, 1983 Tape 2518 PK - 2 MR. DAWE: are in excess of 3,400 kilometers. There are a number of areas that - and if I had a dollar for every time a member or a community indicated that their particular road·was the worst in the Province then perhaps I would have enough funding to be able to complete them all. It is very important to the people who are subjected to these road conditiGns in their areas ,and to them I am sure that it is the worst road and it is one that they would like to see repaired. Mr. Speaker, the government would also like to see these roads completed.

There is a considerable amount of provincial funding. The federal/provincial agreements ~ have been the way major trunk roads and secondary roads in this Province have been built for a great number of years, since Confederation,I might suggest. It is not shameful nor is it any way derogatory towards this administration or any other administration to be involved in a cost-sharing programme. As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, it is to the credit of this administration that wewere able to solicit and garner the kind of an agreement,a 75/25 cost-sharing programme,to be able to do some of the secondary roads.

And I might point out, Mr. Speaker, that the last agreement is a welcomed vindication of the Province's position that it could not be involved in a trade- off scenario on transportation requirements in this Province· and in order for the extreme needs' · in transportation, particularly in the road sector, to be met , that this Province needed additional funding, new funding, and not to be just taking money from one area of transportation and putting it in another. And, Mr.

Speaker, this latest agreement is a vindication of that position that the Province has maintained for the past two or three years 1 and I am very pleased to see that the federal government has recognized this principle and have put additional funding into the transportation sector. I would only hope 5357

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2519 SD - 1 MR. DAWE: that it is just a beginning of future agreements that will see many of the roads in this Province brought up to a standard acceptable to the people living here. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : MR. LUSH: The han. member for Terra Nova. Mr. Speaker, I would like to support this petition so ably presented by my colleague. Mr. Speaker, I notice that the minister says that he supports all petitions. Well, Mr. Speaker, it looks like his support is not enough. We need more than support. HR. ROBERTS: -:•!hat ~re need is action. MR·.

LUSH: Only his actions now will show faith to the people in this area '·Tho want their roads paved so desperately. Every word in the prayer of the petition and every word uttered by my friend and colleague I could have said respecting roads in the Terra Nova district. And I notice that in the covering letter the people said that they wanted to be treated equally and fairly. And, Mr.

Speaker, the fact that they have to say that they wanted to be treated equally and fairly is a suggestion that they are not being treated equally and fairly, the same as many people in this Province are not being treated equally and fairly with respect to construction of roads, upgrading, paving and the like. So, Mr.

Speaker, I certainly hope that the minister wili do more than support it/ I hope that he will take action and come up with some systematic programme of construction and re-construction so that we can get all of the roads paved in this Province,so that all of the people can say that they are treated equally and fairly in this respect. And,as I say, the fact that they have had to say that, the-fact that that had to be mentioned in the covering letter is a suggestion that they have not had it. And I think again that the member, in 5358 ,.

May 25 , 1983 Ta:pe No . 2519 so - 2 MR. LOSH: presenting the petition, said that there was not one cent spent there, provincial monies, since 1972. And that is a sad indictment, Mr. Speaker. No wonder the people said they wanted to be treated equally and fairly. And again I can make the same analogy respecting roads in the Terra Nova district.

So I hope that the minister will not only give lip service to these petitions to say taht he is supporting them, but that his actions will demonstrate that he truly supports them, that monies will be forthcoming in this fiscal year and allocated in such a manner that the people of this Province will know that they are being treated fairly an~ equally by this government, 5359

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2520 MJ - 1 MR. LUSH: that they will get a proportion, a fair allocation of the monies allocated for reconstruction and paving of the roads in their particular area. We hope, Mr. Speaker, that we do not see the money just being spent in a few areas, in the same provincial districts ~.,here ~.,e have seen the money being spent over the past several years, \'le hope it is spread out on a more equal basis. And that is what the petition said, Mr. Speaker.

They knew that they could not get all their roads paved this year but they wanted to see a start, they wanted to see a systematic beginning to upgrading and reconstruction of roads in their area. And that is what the people'throughout this Province want, people who live in areas with gravel roads, poor conditions, Mr. Speaker, not fit to drive over, they want to see their roads maintained and eventually paved. That is what the petition said and I can say the same thing for the residents of the Terra Nova district and it is why I can support this petition - MR. NEAR.Y: And LaPoile. MR.

LUSH: - and LaPoile and several other districts on this side of the House, Mr. Speaker, and that is why I can so enthusiastically and wholeheartedly support the prayer of this petition, Thank you. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! ORDERS OF THE PAY MR. SPEAKER (RUssell) : Order, please! It being Private Members' Day we shall continue with Motion 6.. As I understand it the debate last day was adjourned by the han. the member for Port au Port (Mr. Hodder) and he has six minutes left, MR. HODDER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, this resolution which was put forward by the member for Grand Bank (!lr, Matthews) is one of the fe~ resolutions that most members of the House,I believe,could support,virtual1y unanimously. 5360

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2520 MJ - 2 MR. HODDER: The Motion is worded in a non- partisan and non-political manner,which is a change for resolutions for the most part. Mr. Speaker, the resolution speaks of marine conditions which we encounter in this Province, it talks about the Ocean Ranger disaster which was one of the greatest marine disasters of recent times that we have experienced in this Province, and it asked that better s.:;!arch and rescue facilities be placed in the Province in the event of emergency at sea,and pays attention to the drilling operations that go on around our coast. Mr.

Speaker, the question as to what is adequate as far'as search and rescue operations are concerned is one that we may debate amongst ourselves for years to come. I guess every member who represents an area of this Province in this House of Assembly would feel that the search and rescue operations were not adequate for his particular area of the Province,and we all have a regional point of view on this particular matter. Mr. Speaker, I do not think with a resolution such as this, whether it be placed in ten years time or whether it had been placed on the Order Paper ten years ago 5361

May 25, 19 83 Tape 2521 EC - 1 MR. HODDER: that we would see any variance of opinion in this House of Assembly. Every Newfoundlander wants better sea~ch and rescue facilities. Many of our people, Mr. Speaker, have died on the ocean in pursuit of seals and fish and lately, of oil, and the resolution is, one, that whichever government were in power in Ottawa and whichever government were in power in this Province, we would ask for better search and rescue facilities.

And if my vote on this particular matter helps the government to attain a better level of search and rescue facilities for this Province, then certainly the Ho~se of Assembly will have my vote. It is one of the few times, I think, that I have been able to stand on this side of the House and support a government member's motion. Mr. Speaker, the question of rationalization of search and rescue facilities around the Province is one that concerns me deeply. I believe we have the Gulf of St.

Lawrence, the Strait of Belle Isle and the Grand Banks which are some of the most heavily travelled and have some of the heaviest traffic of any areas in the Eastern Seaboard of Canada or perhaps the United States. It would seem very logical to me that such areas as the Southwest Coast, the Port-aux-Basques, Stephenville area, should have some sort of operational craft, both coastguard and the helicopter, fixed-wing-type of patrol, as well as the East Coast. It is as important there as it is to have search and rescue facilities on the East Coast to look after the Grand Banks. But, Mr.

Speaker, we can never have enough search and rescue facilities in the Province as long as we make our livelihoods from the sea, as long as we work on the sea. It is an issue where we will always cry and ask for better. As long as human lives are in 5362

~1 a y 25, 198 3 Tape 252 1 EC - 2 MR . HODD ER : danger, we will ask for better s.earcll and rescue facilities. However, I would, in closing, caution the government about its approach. When we have to deal witl'). another government, and again, regardless of stripe, the manner in which we approach that government, the case that we make for search and rescue facilities, whether they be fixed wing, whether they be helicopters or whether it be a coastguard type of operation, the way that 5363

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2522 SD - 1 MR. HODDER we approach that government is very important. And we on this side know better than anyone else the deteriorating condition and the confrontational stand that this government has taken with their counterparts in Ottawa. We do know that when it pleases them that they can achieve results with Ottawa,as we have seen lately. I think it is very important, Mr. Speaker, that this government make its case for better search and rescue operations here in Newfoundland and let the people of the Province know what its case is. It seems to me, Mr.

Speaker, that this is one of those issues where the government stands up and shouts - it is almost like the Shoe Cove Tracking Station,where we rail away at the federal government for better search and rescue facilities without planning ourselves what we should have in making a good strong case with the federal government as to the necessity of search and rescue operations. So, Mr.

Speaker, I would say to th .e government that while I support th .e member who placed this resolution on the Order Paper, I will say as well that I do not s-upport the government on the method in which they have asked or tried to achieve their ends. The confrontation approach of this government has hurt the people of Newfoundland. The deteriorating federal/ provincial relations in this Province are hurting the people of this Province and I would say, Mr. Speaker, if this government really has ~ch and rescue as a prime factor, as one of the first things they want to do for this Province 1 then th .ey can do it.

But they must make it a number one priority not just a rallying cry for the type of political and partisan politics which they play. MR. SPEAKER (~cNicholasl: and Manpower. 5364 The hon. Minister of Labour

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2522 SD - 2 MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker, first of all let me thank the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) for sending me a stick of Wrigley's spearmint chewing gum. I have to send it back to him, I am on Freedent lately. It is sugarless and it is better for your teeth. The members of the press might be interested in that since they reported on it this morning. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas) : Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. A point of order, the hon. Mr. Speaker, the han. gentleman just accused me of sending him something in an envelope.

I did not send the han. gentleman a stick of spearmint gum, I did not send the han. gentleman anything. I have no intention of sending the han. gentleman anything, so I would ask the han. gentleman to retract his statement, Mr. Speaker. MR. DINN: Okay, Mr. Speaker, I retract it. It came in an envelope from the officer of the Leader of the Opposition. HR. BARRETT: But he might not be that today. SOME HON . MEMBERS : Oh, oh. MR. DINN: So, Mr. Speaker, I would like to get on to this very serious topic we are discussing today, 5365

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2523 JV -1 MR. DINN: a resolution put on the Order Paper by the hon. member for Grand Bank (Mr. Matthews) and it deals with search and rescue in Newfoundland and Labrador. It is a very topical resolution, it is one that deserves, I think, every members consideration. I have some experience with search and rescue, Mr. Speaker, in that I served for ten years with the Royal Canadian Air Force and for a period of that time was a member of 103 Search and Rescue Squadron out of Greenwood, Nova Scotia. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

DINN: At that point in time, from 1960 to 1968,when I was stationed at Greenwood, of course, the men and equipment at that time were, to say the least, about the best in the world. Since that time, as a matter of fact since the early 1960's,the search and rescue equipment that the men haveto operate with is very, very second rate in comparison to equipment used by other forces in this world.

We still use, for example, the Labrador helicopter which is not the most stable helicopter for search and rescue in severe weather conditions,and the Navy out of Halifax uses the old Sea King,which is not one of the best helicopters in use.

There are some new helicopters coming out lately that have a great deal more stability and, as a matter of fact, it was commented on during the enquiry in the United States and probably will be commented on as a result of our own Royal Commission of Enquiry here, that the helicopters used by the oil companies here in Newfoundland for transporting men and equipment back and forth to the rigs are bf much better quality than-the ones used by the Canadian Forces. 5366

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2523 JV - 2 MR. DINN: At this point in time, of course, it is the Canadian Forces and not the Royal Canadian Air Force,which I was a part of. Mr. Speaker, search and rescue in Canada not only on the East Coast but also on the West Coast, not only is the equipment outdated but the fact of the matter is, it is stationed in the wrong places. on both Coasts.

I do not know if hon. members are aware but on the West Coast they have search and rescue out of Comox, British Columbia, and they have a small contingent there; they use the same sort of equipment and facilities but the equipment is to say the least very, very second rate • . . - ... . The men who fly these helicopters, Sea Kings for what would be - - considered the Naval portion of the Canadian Armed Services and the 103 Search and Rescue Squadrons that are stationed out of -right now it is still Greenwood, and Summerside, Prince Edward Island,and Halifax. We have a couple now stationed at Gander.

The fact of the matter is that we have the best men in the world, the best training in the world and they just simply do not have the equipment that is capable of ~lying the North Atlantic. They do not have the range, they 5367

May 2.;i,l983 Tape 2524 PK - 1 MR. DINN: do not have the search equipment facilities, and when they get to the rescue area with the equipment only under very mild conditions can they operate to get anyone out of the sea or off a rig or off a ship. So, Mr. Speaker, I want to make sure that people understand it is not the men in the Canadian Armed Forces, because they are some of the best trained men.

As a matter of fact,I remember very, very clearly one year in Greenwood , Nova Scotia,when I was there,that two of the corporals in 103 Search and Rescue because of their bravery received bravery awards twice in one year for the way ~n which they operated off the coast of Nova Scotia. The Labrador aircraft or the Labrador helicopter, it is called the Labrador, I do riot know if hon. gentlemen have seen them,but they have two · props that basically go around on top, and they are not bad aircraft to fly in very mild conditions.

They are not that noisey in comparison to other aircraft but I think if hon. members were to fly them in,say, anything over twenty-five mile an hour winds you would find that the thing is like a basket in that it bounces around all over the place. MR. CARTER: You mean like a rocking chair? MR. DINN: They tell me that the reason for this - one of the reasons why the new Puma helicopters that they are using out here at Torbay now for tr~nsporting people back and forth are more stable in the air is that they have that rear stablizing prop ~hat is very important, I understand, . ~ to the flight of these helicopters.

So I was not aware,of course, when I was in Search and Rescue,in 103 Squadron,that this was the reason why the helicopter that I flew bounced around like a basket. But I can tell han. members that anybody who has been aboard one of these Labrador helicopters will find that it is much like being in a basket that is 5368

May 25, 1983 Tape 2524 Pk - 2 MR. DINN: dangling in mid - air, like on ·an elastic band, if you will, and \-Tith anything over a b.'ellty- five or a thirty mile an hour wind and one can get severely sick.

Now,· of course, I was from Newfoundland and had my sea legs and it did not bother me much at all, but .I can assure hon. members that if you fly aboard one of these things in anything over - nonual winds in· Newfoundland are almost twenty- - five miles an hour, twenty - five knot winds, b1:1t in anything over twenty - five or thirty knots I think you would find the thing is almost unbearable to stay in for any length of tilre . But the men in Search and Rescue 103, and 108 are guys who are very dedicated to their work , 5369

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2525 MJ - 1 MR. DINN: As a matter of fact.many of them have citations for bravery above and beyond, we will say, for rescuing people off ice floes, off ships, marooned tankers and so on as· they have done over the years. But the fact of the matter is that working with search and rascue from either Greenwood,which can basically do the Bay of Fundy and can do part of the Gulf before it gets - for exarnole, leaving Greenwood, Nova Scotia, flying 100 miles, if they have to go any distance offshore at all they have to land in Halifax, refuel, to go out off the coast of Nova Scotia.

So one can only guess what happens when a Labrador helicopter leaves Greenwood, Nova Scotia,'to come to Newfoundland to try to perform a rescue off the Avalon Peninsula,or in the North Atlantic anywhere off the Coast of Labrador or Newfoundland, It is just very time consuming. It takes five or six or seven hours. As a matter of fact, during the Ocean Ranger disaster last year we had a helicopter which took ab~ut eight hours just to get here to Torbay in order ot do anything and then,of course,it was much too late and nothing could be done.

As to whether anything could be done if the helicopters at that point in time were stationed here in St. John's during the storm, I do not think, Mr. Speaker, that they would have been capable of doing anything trith respect to going out and getting people off that rig .. But the signs were there and I think we have regulations in place now where under certain storm conditions,when they are forecasted,we can send the helicopters out and have the people retrieved from the rigs before anything serious occurs. But these things are very,very difficult to predict and,as I say, Mr.

Speaker, these .storms in the North Atlantic can come up very quickly. I do not know, as the han. the member for Port au Port (Mr. Hodder) said, if we will ev=....r get to a poing where we will have equipment or men or search and rascue 5370

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2525 MJ - 2 MR. DINN: facilities that will be up to what we think should be the normal standard . I do not think we will ever reach that tJtopia n time when search and r.ascue will be available to everyone at all times and there will be no danger of loss of life. I think that the hon. the member for Port au Port (~tr . Hodder)nointed that out . 537l .

May 25, 1983 Tape 2526 EC - 1 MR. DINN: I was a little bit discouraged and disturbed when the hon. Giles Lamontagne was down here and spoke to a group here in St. John's and then came in here. As a matter of _fact, the hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) was speaking in the House that day and acknowledged the minister when he was here. MR. NEARY: And making a very good speech, as usual. MR. DINN: And making a very good speech, as usual, unlike the letter to the editor in today's paper, written by the hon. member. I thought that was a little bit lower than what the hon. the Leader of the Opposition is capable of,but I guess his feathers were ruffled a little bit by the

article yesterday. Nevertheless, I was disappointed when the hon. Giles Lamontagne was here and indicated that he would hope that the Province would buy some more forestry aircraft so that they could help out with search and rescue. And the hon. the minister, Mr. Speaker, was a member of the Royal Canadian Air Force and should know, the difference being - I do not know if hon. members understand this - the difference being that the hon. the Minister of Defence, Giles Lamontagne, is what we called a 'jet jockey'. He was always ·involved with fighter aircraft. He was involved with the CF - MR. NEARY: (Inaudible).

MR. DINN: No, the CF 100 and the Sabre at the time he was in- the Sabre was just coming in, as a matter 'of fact, when the hon. the minister got out of the armed services. And these, what we cal)ed 'jet jockeys',I think that the only thing the armed services need are fighter aircraft and they put as a very, very low priority anything 5372

May 25, 1983 Tape 2526 EC - 2 MR. DINN : that has to do '"ith sea .rch and rescue or anti -submarine hu.'l"'ting or that type of thing and that is why I have assumed that the hon . the minister does not have what I conside~ the necessary interest for us to get the necessary stabilized helicopter equipment and search equipment so that the men in the armed services can do their jobs. Nhat we need on the East Coast , Mr .

Speaker - of course , I am not an expert on it, but in order for us to have some capability to operate off the coast of Newfoundland and Labrador, and that is where the action will be thi .s year and that is where the action will be for the next twenty or thirty or forty or fifty years, is off the coast of Newfoundland and Labrador: This year, as I indicated in an answer to a question from the hon . the member for Terra Nova (Mr . Lush) one day, this year is going to be the biqqest year in the history of 53 73 ..

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2527 NM- 1 MR. DINN: Newfoundland and Labrador with respect to exploration in that right now we have three drill rigs off the Coast, the Sedco 706, the West Venture, and the Zapata Ugland, and depending on what happens to the John Shaw, which is off Nova Scotia right now - MR. NEARY: She is not fit to have out there. They cannot even tow her around 1 the John Shaw. MR. DINN: - the John Shaw which is off Nova Scotia right now and is drilling for Mobil. MR. NEARY: They want to get rid of her. MR.

DINN: Whether that drills off Newfoundland or not will depend on the success that it will have off Nova Scotia this year and I understand that that would be expected here probably around July, depending on '"hether the John Shaw strikes oil off the Coast of Nova Scotia. Of course the big oil play, as everybody knows, is off the Coast of Newfoundland, the Hibernia field and the different other areas. Mr.

Speaker, off the Coast' of Labrador this year,also,we will have -of course hon. members know the Pellerin, Pacnorse and the Neddrill 2, which will be drilling for Petro-Can, and the Sedco 710 is said to be on its way here also and it will be drilling off the Coast. The .... .. Petrel,which will be drilling for Canterra Energy Limited of Alberta,will be wor~ing out there, and we are into negotia~ions and discussions now as to whether the Bow Drill 2 will also be working, so we are talking about four rigs and six drill ships, which is a total of ten, which is the maximum we have ever had.

As a matter of fact,we reached the peak at seven last year and they were not here all at the one time. So we will have ten rigs off the. Coast and I think it is very necessary that what we do with search and rescue in Eastern Canada is that we take the squadrons that are in Summerside, Prince Edward Island -I 5374

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2527 NM- 2 MR. DINN: am not saying that you do not need search and rescue in the Gulf, you certainly do, but the Gulf, hon. members, and the Bay of Fundy for sure, have great coverage right now, they do not need to have five or six or seven Labrador helicopters stationed at ·Gree~wood, Nova Scotia. So, Mr. Speaker, what we need in search and rescue, number one,is to distribute the e~ipment that we do have.

Possibly we should have one or two helicopters in Goose Bay to look after the Labrador sea, for this Su!tner especially, we should have probably -well, we probably would have needed something in Gander if the federal government had signed the agreement for the British. Petroleum lea~s, it would h.ave operated just off the Northeast Coast off Botwood, 5375

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2528 SD - 1 MR. DINN: and we would need something at Torbay. I understand right now we have two Labrador helicopters at Gander and one that flies back and forth. It is not a permanent fixture at Gander right now and it goes back and forth between Gander and Summerside, Prince Edward Island. What we really need for this Summer especially is something stationed near offshore Labrador,in Goose Bay, I would recommend, because we have the facilities there. We also need something in Torbay.

And it would not hurt for one of the helicopters from 108 stationed in Summerside, Prince Edward Island, to have one of those either at Stephenville or at Deer Lake, either one,so that you could cover the Northern part of the Gulf of St. Lawrence • Because the range of these helicopters, when you go out and have to pick people out of the water ,and search, is not that great. I doubt very much if they would have the range to .go out, spend half an hour looking around and trying to get people aboard and then to go back to Summerside.

So obviously it would not be necessary that they go to Summerside but that is their base of operation. And to me it would seem a lot more logical for search and rescue to be distributed, especially in busy times,and especially where you have drill rigs and drill ships involved. And, of course, the hon. members may or may not be aware but you use three or four supply vessels for each ship and rig that is off the coast just to supply back and forth and to be stationed out there. S? you have quite a number of people who will ·be involved in the offshore.

For hon. members' information, this year we will have offshore and onshore directly related to that, to offshore, about 3,400 people working in the offshore oil industry -about 2,000 of which -will be .local Newfoundlanders, the ~er: will be those who will be coming in with the drill ships and,obviously,we will not be replacing full crews. 5376

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2528 SD - 2 MR. DINN: But it is quite a number of people to be plying back and forth between rigs and to be stationed on rigs in offshore Newfoundland and Labrador not ·to have the search and rescue facilities 5377

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2529 MJ ~ 1 MR. DINN: that we do have available to us today,not to have them diffused around so that you 'oould have sorrething at Torbay, sorrething maybe ~t Deer La~e or Stephenville,and someth~ng ~t Goose Bay so that we could look after the emergencies th .at we do have. We do have three, I believe, private com;pany operated helicopters out at Torbay right now which are good helicopters, especially the bigger one, the 'Puma I believe they call it.

These people are not just trained in Search and Rescue and if we had the equipment that 103 should have, like the big l?urnas the oil companies have, with the people that we have ,.;rho are trained in search and rescue in the Canadian Forces,! think we would have upgraded our search and rescue facilities considerably. The larger aircraft that the private companies use plying back and forth between the rigs are more stable than the Labrador the one that is used by the RC~, more stable in the air, and can operate - HR. TULK: r·:hat about the - MR. DINN: Pardon? MR.

TULK: What about the big yello1>l one ~·!hat is the name of that? r1R. BARRETT: ':':'he Chinook. MR. DINN: And there is a Sikorski also, ~1R. BARRETT: And the S61 N. MR. DINN: Yes, and the Sikorski. So, Mr. Speaker, what we need today- they are very stable, the one big prop plus the stablizing prop at the back are more stable than the one with the two big pr~ps,as far as I can understand or have learned. So, Mr, Speaker, what I would recommend- I compliment the member for Grand Bank (Mr. Matthews) for bringing the resolution before the aouse, I hope that members get up and speak on this very important resolution.

The recommendation th~t I would 5378

May 25 , 1983 Tape No . 2529 MJ - 2 MR. DINN: make would be that the two Search and Rescue Squadrons that we do have in the Canadian Forces,that are now stationed at Summerside, Prince Edward Island and Gree.nwood, Nova Scotia, be stationed in Torbay: .,.1e can still l e ave a couple at Greem..rood, Ne can leave a couple at Summerside, we should put a couple in either Stephenville or Deer Lake to handle the Northern part of the Gulf of St. Lawrence and nearer the Newfoundland Coast . 5379

May 25, 1983 Tape 2530 EC - 1 MR. DINN: , we should also have two or three stationed at Torbay. We would have needed them at Gander - there are three at Gander and I really believe that if we had the rigs that were coming in here with BP this year,that would work off the Northeast Coast, you would need something at Gander also. rm. TULK: I am rot questioning your priori ties, but the roint is though that there are other things besides offshore. MR. DINN: Yes, I understand. You are talking about the inshore fishery, the trawler fleet, the longliner fleet. MR. SPEAKER (Dr. McNi chol as): Order, please!

The hon. member's time has elapsed. MR. DINN: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I can finish in about thirty seconds. SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave. r1R. TULK: Give him thirty seconds. MR. SPEAKER: By leave. MR. DINN: My recommendation would be that you would have something at Goose Bay to handle the six rigs that will be up there this year; you need something at Torbay to handle the rigs that are off the coast, plus, will be able to handle the trawler fleet on the South Coast and the inshore fishery on the Northeast Coast,and something at Deer Lake to handle the Northern part of the Gulf of St.

Lawrence and the Southern tip of Newfoundland. AN HON. MEMBER: What about St. Anthony? MR. DINN: St. Anthony .might be another good idea to have one or two. The problem with Search and Rescue 103 is that where you put one you have to have another one 5380

May 25, 1983 Tape 2530 EC - 2 MR. DINN: for back up and I do not believe thev have the number of helicopters to go around. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Dr. McNicholas): The han. the member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: I, as do my other colleagues, support this resolution. This resolution to us is a motherhood issue and naturally, all Newfoundlanders and Labradorians are proud to know that members on both sides of this han. House support something that is vital to every Newfoundlander and Labradorian. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I cannot go further without mentioning that only for the sinking of the Ocean Ranger, we would not have had the opportunity of seeing this resolution on the Order Paper. It has cost the lives of eighty-four ~ersons, going down on the Ocean ·Ranger, for a resolution of this magnitude to be brought into this han. House. I a"l not condemning either side but in order for the fifty-two of us to speak up on behalf of all Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, we'had to have a disaster in our Province, !·~r. Speaker. However, Mr.

Speaker, in speaking about the Ocean Ranger, one would wonder, now knowing that the Royal Commission is presently meeting, 5381

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2531 NM - 1 MR. WARREN: VI' ill it probably be three or four years down the road before the findings are released to the public, if they a~e going to be released to the public. But one would wonder, Mr. Speaker, if this government was not so determined to have local preference, untrained people in some regards, as some witnesses have said, untrained people on the Ocean Ranger, 'lile are wondering if we would have had a disaster as we had over a year ago. Mr. Speaker, we talk about air, sea rescue.

If at the time the Ocean Ranger went down the helicopters •,<ere stationed in the Ocean Ranger instead of stationed here at the· airport in St. John's, over in hangar nine, if the helicopter that Mobil had was stationed on the Ocean Ranger where it should have been stationed, at least some of the lives probably could have been s.aved, but the helicopter was stationed here in St. John's when we had that trac.edv and there are a lot of ifs and buts. And now we have finally been awakened, we are calling for air sea rescue to be improved in Newfoundland. what Sometimes I wonder, Mr.

Speaker, people in Kewfoundland and Labrador have to say to the federal government to :r:ake them realize that we are part of the Dominion of Canada. Sometimes I think, Mr. Speaker, that a lot of the federal politicians believe that Canada goes from British Columbia to Nova Scotia, and,Mr. Speaker, it is unfortunate that we have politicians on both sides in Ottawa not realizing that Newfoundland is part of Canada. ~~ew·foundlanders deserve what every other Canadian from sea to sea deserves. I was going to start off by saying that in listening to the han. member for Grand Bank (Mr.

Matthews), and my colleagues, and other colleagues on that side who were· discussing locations for air sea rescue, -- . ' . I was glad that the hon. member for Pleasantville (Mr. Dinn) ,said that he would like to see one stationed in 5382

May 25, 1983 Tape No . 2531 NM - 2 MR . WARREN: Goose Bay , and Mr. Speaker , for the next ten or fif.teen minutes that I have I am going to illustrate that Goose Bay - here we have Labrador which is many, many times larger than Newfounland, the coastline of Labrador from Blanc Sablon North to Cape Chidley, practically virgin territory, the roughest seas in North America and yet we have no air , sea rescue operations, not hing ~tationed at all in Goose Bay. Goose Ba~ one of the larger airports in Eastern Canada, practically one of the best aiports as far as weather is concerned, it is accessible practically all times of the ye ar 5383

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2532 SD - 1 MR. WARREN: it is a good location, it is centrally located to cover from St. Anthony No~th to Cape Chidley and yet we have no helicopters or anything else stationed in Goose Bay. · Mr. Speaker, there is much to be said about our air sea rescue. HR. TULK: What about St . Anthony, 'Garfield'? MR. WARREN: I think the Goose Bay one could cover all the way from St. Anthony - Goose Bay is about midw~y between St. Anthony and Cape Chidley. so if there was an operation in Goose Bay it would cover the whole Labrador Coast and alqo the Northern Peninsula.

I do not see any reason why it all could not be covered from Goose Bay. MR. TULK How long would that be then? MR. WARREN: I would say from St. Anthony to Goose Bay by helicopter, probably about an hour and thirty minutes and the same thing for Cape Chidley, probably two hours one way or the other. However, Mr. Speaker, not too long ago there was rescue equipment in the community of Nain . At the ti~e the weather was not very suitable along the Labrador Coast - on the coastline it was not very suitable, so the airline that was in Goose Bay was unable to fly because of weather conditions.

The Sealand helicopter and the Universal helicopter unable to fly it was a medical evacuation actually, a dying child from Nain needed an emergency airlift out to a hospital. And neither one of t~ose companies would take the chance, because the weather was not suitable, to go in and airlift this child out. And, Mr. Speaker, neither would the air sea rescue consider it • Because it was only a medical evacuation and only one life involved, neither would they consider it. But, Mr. Speaker, it took the German Air ~orce 5384

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2532 SD - 2 MR. WARREN: there , last year - Nr. Speaker, just one approach was made to the Coomander of the German Air Force and three of his staff went into Nain and air lifted that child out to the hospital and it was by their action that this child's life was saved. ~'IR. TULK: Why could not the rest go in? .· MR. WARREN: Both helicopter companies said at the time that the weather was not suitable for travel, the local airline that was in the town said that the weather was not suitable, And the weather was bad.

But the German Air Force took it upon themselves to ··make this· medical evacuation. But the ironic thing about it, Mr. Speaker, was that there were three letters - I think copies of the letters are on the Minister of Transportation's (l.tr. Dawef desk. Three letters went to the Commander of the German Air Force from those three airlines saying that the German Air Force was taking business away from them. The minister's department has copies of those letters that said that the German Air Force was taking bus·ines.s- away from the companies.

And here no other company would take it upon themselves to evacuate this child. 5385

Hay 25, 1983 Tape 2533 PK - 1 MR. WARREN: Now, Mr. Speaker, before we talk about air sea rescue, I think we have to get our own house in order first. MR. ANDREWS : We do not own any helicopters. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, you did not own any helicopters but you paid something like $1 million to a helicopter company lastlyear for miles that they did not even fly. For miles they did not even fly there were monies paid out last year. I understand a contract is given to a company and whether they fly or not they are paid. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. CALLAN: They flew during the election campaign.

That is when they flew, during the election campaign, taking around Tory candidates. MR. NEARY: AN HON. MEMBER: MR. CALLAN: Tory supporters (Inaudible). It has not happened. No, it has not happened. It did not happen in Bellevue? Who paid for the helicopters that Bas Jamieson flew around in every day? MR. WARREN: And Eli Kelland? MR. CALLAN: Bas Jamieson flicking around in helicopters and taking his flunkies with him. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, the German Airforce did come through. Mr. Speaker, I believe the federal government could take a lesson from the action that the German Airforce took in Labrador.

In fact, again this year they did a similar thing for the caribou meat in the North of Nain when this government refused, when this government blatantly refused and said they did not have any money ,, when all that was needed was $20,000 and the same day the government said they never had any money they awarded a tender for the Confederation Complex $600,000 more than the lowest tender. Now that is the government who said they did not have any money. 5386

May 25, 1983 Tape 2533 PK - 2 MR. BUTT: MR. WARREN: The han. member is straying now. I am sorry, Mr• Speaker, I carne off course a little bit. MR. NEARY: At least the han. member for Conception Bay South (Mr. Butt) is astray all of the time. MR. WARREN: However, Mr. Speaker, in support of this resolution I believe there is something to be said about our coast guard, too. Where is our coast guard stationed, located? Where do we find the coast guard, the large ships, the icebreakers, where do we find them stationed? MR. BAIRD: In Quebec • MR. WARREN: No, they are not stationed in Quebec.

They are not all stationed in Quebec. AN HON. MEMBER: In Burin. MR. WARREN: No, they are not stationed in Burin either. They are stationed here in St. John's. Why could not those coast guard, ships, those icebreakers, those ships be stationed in five or six locations throughout the Province? I know, Mr. Speaker, it is impossible for an icebreaker to be stationed in a community along the Labrador coast during the Winter because of ice conditions. I understand Mr. Speaker, that they cannot MR. BARRETT: (Inaudible) move the icebreakers. MR. WARREN: Go and sit down, you blow off! MR. CALLAN: Is this in order, Mr.

Speaker, a man with his hands in his pocket standing in the doorway bawling and shouting? I am glad you are not· in my pocket. MR. BARRETT: You are not allowed to put your hands in your pockets anymore? MR. WARREN: Not you anyhow! MR. CALLAN: I am glad you are not in my pocket. MR. BARRETT: You need not worry about that. Are you going to have something else to say there now? MR. CALLAN: till too. He got his hands in the government 5387

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2534 JV - l SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, it is amazing that every time I get up to make a speech members on both sides get catcalling. Do I say things which upset some of the members? The hon. member for St. John's West (Mr. Barrett) gets all upset because I want to move some of the coast ~d ships from his district. He gets all upset because I suggested that some of the Coastguard ships should be moved to other places on the Island, taking them from his district. That is terrible - I feel bad about the han. member's concern. Mr.

Speaker, I believe these coas.t guard ships should be stationed throughout the Province. MR. TOBIN: That is the Federal Government's attitude towards Newfoundland/ 'Garf'. MR. WARREN: No, my friend. I should tell the han. member for Burin-Placentia West (Mr. Tobin) that he came into the House last Wednesday and presented a petition that was very inaccurate, his comments were inaccurate, Mr. Speaker. P._hd I think that the han. member should know the difference and not be shouting across this hon. House. Mr.

Speaker, talking about the petition I am forced to mention.that there was one oart of the petition which had, I think, 53 names on it,and it said the names were from Port Anne, and those fiftv-three names are of people who only go to Port Anne in S~~ertime to fish, they all live in Arnold's Cove. Mr. Speaker, I have to agree with what the hon. member for Pleasantville (Mr. Dinn) said earlier1that we need helicopters and aircraft located throughout this Province, not in one location. Mr. Speaker 5388

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2534 JV - 2 MR . WARREN: what is the point of h~ving air sea rescue located in St . John's, if a catastrophe occurs off the Labrador Coast? It would be quicker to come from PEI to the Labrador Coast than it . \·JOuld be to come fiom St. John's to the Labrador Coast, there are less rrri.les. t1R . TOBIN: '!hey should be down there too, boy. MR . WARREN: Exactly. Why should the hon . member get upset when I want one of the coast guard ships to be located somewhere else in the Province, Mr . Speaker ? 5389

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2535 MJ ~ 1 MR. WARREN: This resolution, Mr. Speaker, and I have to commend the hon. the member for Grand Bank (Mr. Matthews) , a historical community in this Province.. T would venture to say that during New·foundland' s long seagoing history that the hon. member for Grand Bank has seen and heard of more lives being lost on the Grand Bank than anywhere else in this Province and, Mr. Speaker', it is fitting that an hon. member who represents such a district as Grand Bank could bring in this motherhooq issue. HR. ~TTHENS: What was that, again? MR.

WARREN: I just said that you are the member for Grand Bank and knowing that for many,many years many, many lives have been lost off the Grand Banks it is only fitting that the hon. member had the opportunity to bring in such a motherhood issue, Mr. Speaker, I am afraid that when hon. members speak to this resolution,and we know that the Jaycees, just after the catastrophe last year, I think there was something like 20,000-odd signatures, presented a petition to the federal government in Ottawa asking for air sea rescue.

Now, I do not know if the prayer of that petition did say that it should be located in Newfoundland or just located in St. John's, I cannot recall, Mr. Speaker. If it j?st s~id Newfoundland, naturally I would fully support it but I do not - I !~P.. HEJ\.RN : Where do you want it? MR. WARREN: I beg your pardon? . MR. HEl\.~N: Where do you want it? MR. WARREN: I want it located in at least in four or five different areas of the Province. ~~.. DAf•!E : If you cannot get all four of them at the same tim~you do not want any. MR. WARREN: I beg your pardon? 5390

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2535 MJ - 2 AN HON. MEMBER: If you cannot get~ll four of ~~eM at the same time 1 you do not want any. MR. WARREN: As far as I am concerned, it is pointless to have it here in St. John's if a catastrophe takes place 0ff the Labrador Coast . It is pointless . So, as the hon. the member for Pl·easantville (Mr . Dinn) said, definitely they should have one of the helicopters stationed in Goose Bay year round and,as he said,probably one in Deer Lake or in Stephe .nville. But, Mr. Speaker , we need 5391

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2536 NM - 1 MR. WA~~N: im?rovement in out air sea rescue in this Province. As I said earlier, I believe that Hr. Lamontagne and the federal government have been lackadaisical in their approach to the safety of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. And, Mr. Speaker, I believe that this House should be united on a resolution like this, and, with the full support of our seven MPs in the House of Commons, drive home the point that over 40 per cent of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians live by and from the sea, and I' think the minister responsible for air sea rescue should be made aware of this. Mr.

Speaker, there is an old Newfoundland song, "Thank God We're Surrounded bv Water." Hr. Speaker~ it is fine and dandy for us to sing that song, but in closing, Mr. Speaker, it is pointless for us to be surrounded by water if we have not got the facilities to save us when we are out there and calling for help; it is pointless for us to be surrounded by water if, when we call for help, it is a long ways off, and by the time help arrives it is too late, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, ~rr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): The hon. the member for Burin - Placentia West. MR. TOBIN: Thank vou, very much, Mr. Speaker.

I would certainly like to stand and support the resolution so ably presented by my good friend and colleague from the district of Grand Bank (Mr. Matthews), and this member, Mr. Speaker, is certainly qualified to stand and present a petition such as this because the district which he represents, and particularly his own community, has seen some very tragic times in his day and the tragic loss of some of his very close friends. 5392

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2536 NM - 2 MR. TOBIN : Representing, Mr. Speaker, the district of Burin-Placentia ~iest, I feel obli gated to stand in this House and to speak on the resolution. MR. ErODDER: Take the high ground DO~-' instead of taking the low ground as you usually do . 7-ake the high ground . MR. TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, I will cetainly speak to this resolution the way that I feel that it deserves to be spoken to and,unlike the member for Port au Port (Mr . Hodder) 1 I will, Mr .

Speaker, devote my time to speaking of search and rescue relative to the resolution rather than on my organizational abilities which organized the \'>7est Coast of this Province and ,.,.on one seat out of ten, Mr . Speak er. 5393

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2537 SD - 1 MR. TOBIN: I thought, Mr. Speaker, he wasted the time ·::If the House. gR. HODDF.R: That is right, take the low ground. MR .. TOBIN: Anyway, Mr. Speaker, I will certainly not be distracted by the hon. gentleman opposite. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh. MR. TOBIN: I said, Mr. Speaker, that I will support the ~solution. I feel obligated to stand in this House,particularly representing that great and historic district of Burin - Placentia West, where so many brave and courageous fishermen hail from in this Province, Hr. Speaker, and support it.

I am sure the people of my district ' are very proud of my·colleague from Grand Bank (Mr. Matthews) in presenting such a resolution, I am certainly sure, Mr. Speaker, that they are pleased with the Opposition members who stood in the House and supported it, such as my friend and colleague from Port au Port (Mr. Hodderl. Mr. Speaker, I speak to this resolution for a couple of reasons, number one, because of the district I represent and the concern for my fellow Newfoundlanders who are engaged in the sea for a livelihood 1 and also because I have some very, very close family and personal ties to the sea. Mr.

Speaker, the name Tobin has be.en synonymous for a number of years with the sea - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. MR. TOBIN: - many of them, Mr. Speaker, aspiring to the top position such as Captain of the CNR boats,who brought across, Mr. Speaker, this great ocean such boats as the William c·arson and the Patrick Morris and a few of these. M..~. HODDER: Is ~a~tain Tobin a relative of vours? MR. TOBIN: Mike Tobin,retired and now living in North Sydney ? Oh 1 yes 1 indeed he is. He is my dad's first cousin. r.m. HODDER: Unlike the hon. gentleman, he is a fine man. 5394

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2537 SD - 2 MR. TOBIN: Yes, Mr. Speaker, indeed he is a fine man like the han. gentleman 1 that is what he meant to say.Andi might add, Mr. Speaker, further to that 1 my father was one of the first people in Trepassey 1 as I understand it, to hold a Home ~rade ti~ket; ~~ uncle again, Mr. Speaker, spent a nu~ber of vears as a capta~n a~d just retired, and rny brothers_ ar_e qoin_g _to ~E:a and cousins are going to sea - -MR. TULK: Look what became of vou. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. TOBIN: - and look, Mr.

Speaker, where I ended up 1 in here 1having to look at such han. gentlemen . opposite as the member for Fogo (Mr. Tulkl_. But anyway, Mr. Speaker, there are some very good connections 1 some very good ties in the Tobin family with the sea,and I certainly think of that when I think of the need for s~arch and rescue facilities to be improved in th;i.s Province,or at least to exist in this Province. I guess that while we all speak of search and rescue . the thing that sticks out in your mind more so than anything else is the Ocean Ranger disaster 1 and so it should 1 with the loss of some eight-four lives. Mr.

Speaker, the Grand Banks of Newfoundland, as noted by so many of us certainly by mariners from all parts of the world, is the graveyard -:>f the Atlantic. Mr. Speaker, I support 5395

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2538 MJ .,... l ~!R. "::'OBIN: this ~otion, which ! think was put forth by my fr~end from Grand Bank (Mr. ·Matthews) to try to secure the unanimous support crf the House and not in a partisan manner1and that is the way I try to speak to it.

However, I cannot resist to think of what took place this past Winter on t~e Grand Banks when this government, Mr, Speaker, instructed Mobil to take the rigs in because of weather conditions, when the people involved in the offshore operations1such as Mobil ?il, , wanted to take the rigs in ,and when the federal government would not permit the rigs to be brought to shore1 Mr. $peaker. I believe that is unfortunate and I shudder to think that in this day and age people who hol,d positions, ;Mr. Speaker, such as the hon. the Minister of :Energy (Mr.

Chretien) in the federal gover~ent want to play poiit~cs with the lives of fellow· Newfoundlanders. Mr. Speaker, I do not think it should be accepted and T do not think it should be allowed to continue for politicians,and for people such (·as the hon. gentl,e~an I juS:t mentioned 1 to pe permitted to take part and to play pol'itics with the liveS: of Newfoundlanders. Mr.

Speaker, we all know· what happened; the oil rigs Zapata Ugland, Sedco 706 and WeS:t Venture were not able to operate, were not able to drill for oil in the area where they were supposed t0 be and instead of coming to port, and creating so~e work, ~ might add, for the peopl,e of the Burin Peninsula, they were denied that right by the federal minister and spent the best part ?f the Winter out dodging icebergs on the Grand Bank. Mr. Speaker, for most of my life I have had very 5396

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2538 MJ - 2 MR. TOBIN: close connections with fishermen, with people who made their li vi ilfo·od, their 1 i ving, from the sea, I guess from the time I 1-1as a young boy, and particularly my family's involvement in the fishing industry, ·As I just indicated, I was very cl0sely connected and had some very close ties and certainly some very sincere interests in the .s.ea . ilo.nd I can remember, Mr . Speaker, some disasters at sea. The first disaster I can remember, Mr . Speaker, is the disaster of the Blue Wave, when the Blue Wave was lost/ ~tr . Speaker, up off of Cape ~t. Mary ' s .

I remember that night well , I can recall, as a matte .r of fact, when the captain of that boat, Captain Cl;larlie · ~'lal ters, and all his crew were lost , 5397

May 25, 1983 Tape 2539 PK - 1 MR. TOBIN: It is somewhat ironic, to say the least, that the l2st person to see the lights of the Blue Wave the night she was lost was a fellow by the name of Captain Bill Vardy, who was into Tritch, and who just two years ago was lost himself when he left, I believe it was Harbour Breton or Burgee on his way to Marystown Shipyard for repairs. He was the last man to see the lights of the Blue Wave the night she was lost. And, Mr. Speaker, we can reall the loss of the Blue Mist, I am sure we can all remember her. Like I said , I was very close to the sea.

As a matter of fact, when I was in school I think I probably spent most of my time keeping a log on the trawlers. I remember that night I was babysitting - I did a lot of things, Mr. Speaker, for money when I was going to school - when I received a call from my father wondering who was captain of the Blue Mist. MR. NEARY: You did a lot of things for money after you got out of school too. MR. TOBIN: Yes, Mr. Speaker, and I made it all aboveboard, unlike some other people. In any case, Mr. Speaker, let me say that I remember well the night the Blue Mist was lost. As a matter of fact, Mr.

Speaker, if my memory serves me correct, it was my uncle, Captain of the zeta, which was fishing side by side to the Blue Mist that night, who wa ·s the last fellow to talk to the Blue Mist, to Captain Price, And, Mr. Speaker, that same night that the Blue Mist was lost, my uncle had a haFd time of it as well in the Zeta, a boat out of Trepassey with a Trepassey crew. Some of my close friends were fortunate enough that they did not make it across the Gulf and where towed back to Sydney, where I believe they spent sc~ething like two days with a fire on the deck of the Zeta trying to burn the ice off. 5398

May 25, l9B3 Tape 2539 PK - 2 MR. TOBIN: Now, Mr . Speaker, we can see the need from all of this f0r an increased search and rescue. The Cape Dolphin is another one I remember on the Grand Banks, Mr. Speaker , from that great and historic fishing family in a community - MR. HODDER: Mr . Speaker, the member is making an excellent speech, but unfortunately there is no quorum in the House. I think the members on the opposite s.ide should be .here to listen to that hon. member make one of the best speeches he has ever made in this House , Mr . Speaker . MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Call in the members. QUORUM CALL 5399

.May 25, 1983 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Placentia West. RR. TOBIN: Tape 2540 EC - 1 Order, please! Would the C~erk count the House? There is a quorum. The hon. the member for Burin - Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I would like to say that it is somewhat unfortunate that the member for Port au Port (Mr. Hodder) decided to waste the time of the House by calling for a quorum. I certainly was not making what you would call a partisan speech. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. .MR. SPEAKER: MR. TOBIN: MR. SPEAKER: on a point of order. MR. NEARY: Order, please! There he goes, stifling me again!

Order, please! The hon. the Leader of the Opposition I do not know whether the hon. gentleman who made that statement is aware of it or not - a waste of time to call a quorum - in order to conduct the people's business in this House, you have to have fourteen members. If you go below fourteen members you cannot conduct the people's business. All my colleague was doing 'was asking the government, who are the ones who have to see that there is a quorum maintained in the House, · to get enough members in so that we could carry on with the people's business. Now, Mr. Speaker, is that a waste of time? MR.

SPEAKER: Order, please! While it is true that a quorum of fourteen is required in the House, it is the Chair's feeling that both sides have an equal responsibility to provide a quorum for the House. 5400

May 25, 1983 Tape 2540 EC - 2 MR. TOBIN: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. As I was saying earlier, I remember some of those tragedies that took place. However, it seems lately, Mr. Speaker; that every time I stand in the House, for some reason or other I happen to touch the nerve of the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary), who wants to try to stifle me and prevent me from speaking. Now, Mr. Speaker, let me say that I know the district of the han. the Leader of the Opposition rather well too, and I know some great fishermen £rom his district. I know fishermen, Mr.

Speaker, in the Port-aux­ Basques area and have ,had some contacts with fishermen in the Port-aux-Basques area since I got elected. And in Margaree, Mr. Speaker, there are some very fine fishermen, people such as the Meads, George Mead and all these people. I know a lot of great fishermen in Fox Roost, Mr. Speaker, as well. Mr. Speaker~ I also remember when some people from the district of the han. the Leader of the Opposition were stricken at sea by disaster, when, Mr. Speaker, the people from Burnt Island had losses, people such as Ralph Munden, who lost his longliner, Mr.

Speaker., a very fine gentleman, a very capable fisher­ man. As a matter of fact, he stayed at my parents' house for a number of days before he could get home. At that· time it was not that easy to arrange transportation from Trepassey to Burnt Island. I remember people like Edgar Caines, from Burnt Island as well, _ I think, and into Neddie Royles from LaPoile. 5401

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2541 NM - 1 MR. TOBIN: who had a boat burned one time. He too stayed at my father's house for a number of days trying to get home. So I can tra vel the South Coast of this Province, Mr. Speaker, and certainly agonize and certainly sympathize with fishermen. From Cape Ray, Mr. Speaker, to Cape Bonavista I have been associated with fishermen all of my life. And as I was stating earlier before the quorum call was issued, I remember on the Grand Banks when the Cape Dolphin was lost and I was making reference to her captain, Dan Pitcher, belonging to the community of Epworth, in my district.

And it was his brother, Joe Pitcher, who was in the Zarp, I believe at the time, a good many years ago now, who came up inside of him and who spent the whole night trying to pump out fuel oil and everything else to smooth the waters before he put men in the dories to take the crew off. That is where search and rescue could certainly have come in handy that night if it had been established in this Province. I remember that well, Mr. Speaker.

I remember just a few short years ago, as a matter of fact probably within the last four years, I guess, when ·the Zion, with many of my former schoolmates who _ .went to school with me in Trepassey, were lost. They were shipwrecked that night on their way into Trepassey .and it was the next day before they got them off. As a matter of fact; Mr. Speaker, I do not know if I should say I take pride in this or not, but it is encouraging to know that.an

article carried in the local papers shortly afterwards quoted Gus Etchegary, the President of Fishery Products, saying it was the absolute skill of Gerry Tobin, my uncle, and Jim Usher, Mr. Speaker, who saved the crew. They went out there that night with flashlights in sixty mile an hour winds and tried to rig breeches, buoys to take the crew off. 5402 ~

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2541 NM - 2 MR. TOBIN: So, Mr. Speaker, I have had some close connection with the sea and with people of the sea and with people in distress. It was just two years ago when the Atlantic Tony, out of Marystown, burnt off Cape Race. I remember they did not get to shut off the pitch, Mr. Speaker, I am sure that probably not all hon. gentleman are aware of what the pitch is, but they did not get to shut the engine off before they abandoned ship, and while they were there in the lifeboats the Atlantic Tony was sort of going in circles. I can say again, Mr.

Speaker, that it was my uncle, along with Captain Lou Antle of the Atlantic Tony who plucked these people from the water that same day off of~,cape Race. So we can go on, Mr. Speaker, and I can talk about the Zandam, a trawler from Burin·which was lost up off St. Pierre, Mr. Speaker. Captain Adams was on her, Mr. Speaker, the same man who one night put his own life and the lives of all his crew in jeopardy when he went in on the back of Miquelin and rescued a man from a sinking boat. That was a good many years ago, but it certainly expresses the 5403

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2542 MJ -1 ~m. TOBHT: need for adequate search and rescue facilities in this Province. There was a longliner just recently, Mr. Speaker, the san Juan , lost a fe~-1 years ago down off Cape Broyle_, but I am sure that all hon. gentl,emen remember that.

T·Jhen the member for Torngat Mountains (Mr, Warren) was just speaking1he made reference to the need for adequate ~earch and rescue in Labrador, 'I can totall,y sympathize with him and totally agree w~th him-and totally support him, because_ I think_~! __ ~;as_ the _Spri_p,g before last when a Portuguese trawler ran ashore down off of Labrador in the height of a storm, Hr, Speaker, the worst kind of a night1and it wa~ the crew o;f the :Zonnemaire of Burin,under the command of Captain Kirk Mitchum,who rescued that crew. The mate on her, Mr.

Speaker, ;r..es Fudge, was the_ m<m who l,ashed himself into a lifeboat, tied on, secured, to his own boat with two or three ropes, in about sixty or seventy mile an hour winds,vmo braved the seas and went aboard and_took the crew off the Portuguese boat. He recently received an a~1ard from the Governor . ·-·-..... ---_ .... -__ ,_ .. , General in Ottawa for his bravery. So, Mr, speaker, I am sure, as all hon~ gentlemen in this House speak and all, hon. gentlemen in this House look back at the tragedies ~~at_ have occurred, the tragedies that some of us, !·11;'.

Speaker, ' . --·---· ------ pave seen, or probably have occurred in our own families, we can certainly see the need ;for adequate search and rescue in this Province. I honestly wish, Mr. Speaker - I do not say this i~ a partisan manner.-but I honestly wish that the federal government would see the need for --- adequate ~each and rescue in this Province. For too 5404

May 25, 1983 Tape No, 2542 MJ ..,. 2 MR. TOBIN: long now, Mr •. ~peaker, th.e need for Gdequi'l,te, ,i,mpraved searc .h and rescue .i.n tl\~~ Proyi,nc~ has been talked about. For too long the;re has been no action, Mr, Speaker. For too ].ong we have seen inaction on the part of the federal government in providing us with<the type of search and rescue that we need ,i,n tni~ Province.

I have got some very good memories - not good memories but T h.ave clear memorie~ of q.i,sas.ters at sea., I have touched briefly on most 9f them, particular~~ the traw~ers,but I can remember trawler fishe;t'I!Ien 1 l mentioned Ralph :Munden from the han. member's dist:l:!ict, who was shipwrecked and'who stayed at our home. l: reniember a boat by th .e name of. the Bertha Jovce, Clem Bulckster., who i,s now gone on, but a very fine gentleman, a very fine seaman, along with ~is son 1 Ray 1 from the ·district now _of the han. the member for Bellevue (Mr.

Callan) ,1 guess, Arncld's Cove, 1who were shipWrecked at sea one time and stGY'Sd wi,th· us as well,. 5405

May 25, 1983 Tape 2543 PK - 1 MR. TOBIN: I remember a longliner under Freeman Dolomount of Francois -he just recently became skipper of the Penney Hope -was fishing out of Trepassey and he and his crew were shipwrecked and they too spent some time with us. So I have some very, very close memories of what took place at sea. I certainly want to add my support, Mr. Speaker, to the resolution presented by my colleague for Grand Bank (r1r. Matthews) and I trust that the powers that be in Ottawa will listen to our plea, will support our plea, Mr.

Speaker, will look at this in a compassionate sense, in a sense of need, and accept their responsibility, Mr. Speaker, I am sure that my colleagues. opposite share the same views that I do. Let us forget about partisan politics or party politics in this instance; the lives of Newfoundlanders are at stake, very fine Newfoundlanders, Mr. Speaker, because they are the prime producers in this Province. There is one very great sector of people who are prime producers, who are creating new dollars in this Province, the people who are on the sea, Mr.

Speaker, whether it be searching for fish, whether it be in search of seals, or whether it be in search of oil, Mr. Speaker. They are out there trying to make the best of producing our natural resources and creating new monies in our Province. So I think that these people have the same right of adequate protection in search and rescue as has anyone else in any other part of this country. And I want to reiterate my support, Mr.

Speaker, and the support of the people of Burin-Placentia West whom I represent in supporting the resolution that was presented by my colleague from Grand Bank, and I know that it will be supported by all hon. members of this House. And I sincerely 5406

May 25, 1983 Tape 2543 PK - 2 MR. TOBIN: trust, Mr. Speaker, ·~ that this House of Assembly can imoress unon the - - Government of Canada and the department responsible the need for improved · search and rescue facilities in this Province. Thank you. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : The han. member for Fogo. MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, in speaking to this resolution I want to start off by c.ongratulating the member for Grand Bank (Mr.

Matthews) ·;for what I believe to be an excellent resolution, a resolution that is perhaps long over- due in this House, a r~solution tha .t I am sure not a member of the House can vote against. The member for Grand Bank has touched upon a subject that is of concern. to all Newfoundlanders - MR. BUTT: Dear to the hearts of us all, MR. TULK: The member for Con .ception Bay South (Mr. Butt)' says, 'Dear to the hearts of us all, and I have to agree with him. The resolution is well put. There is little of partisan politics in it.

There is not a phase not a word to quarrel with .. either in any of the WHEREASES that 5407

May 25, 1983 Tape No. 2544 SD - 1 MR. TULK: the member has put in place or the resolution itself. So, Mr. Speaker, I want to start off the few words that I am going . to say on this resolution, the few points that I am going to make on this resolution, by first of all saying that I will be voting for the resolution • ..MR. RAIRD: Sur~rise! Surprise! MR. TULK: Having said that, the rrember for Humber 1-lest (Mr.

Baird) should remember that there are times in this House when you do not need to be surprised by one's doing &mething that is non-partisan and that is in the best interest of all Newfoundlanders and that is very close to 'all of us. He does not need .to be surprised with any of that. Having said that, Mr.Speaker, let me comment on the resolution itself and make a few points perhaps in praise of the resolution and perhaps make a few suggestions about it. Mr.

Speaker, I would like to start off by reading the first 'Whereas/ which says, "WHEREAS our fishermen, mariners, and offsho_re rig workers have to work under some of the worst marine conditions in the world", Now, Mr. Speaker, there can be no quarrel with that statement. I think on both sides of the House we have to say unequivocally, yes' · the truth of that sta